Has anyone seen

[Big Rad]

FAHRENHEIT 9/11?

I reccomend it.......Just might open some eyes :rolleyes:

[shaggy]

Or, it might just be another one sided hype attempt, filled with partial facts, which in turn in reality are meant to show the director's views as oppose to 100% fact. Add a bit here, omit some there, and one sees the world through his eyes. Kind of like the Mel Gibson movie about Christ (his interpretations, and thus his views, didn't go to that one either). Anti Jew, me since I didn't see don't know, FAHRENHEIT 9/11, anti Bush, probably, most of Hollywood is, but don't know, didn't see it. I do feel 9/11 had to have been planned much earlier than most may believe, learning to fly, getting someone ready to give up there lives for Allah, or whoever, and basically killing thousands of innocent people, my Allah, or God, I wouldn't think would want me to kill someone, for the statement, and these apparently are not the only ones, look at the beheadings in Iraq. It's also the same for I believe Sinclair Broadcasting who aired the "expose on Kerry and his time in Viet Nam, I am sure that was one sided, but none the less, didn't see that one either. Me, I am sick of actions taken by the few, because of race, religion, sex, age, sexual preferences or marital status, because in "good" people, none of this matters, it all comes down to who we are on the inside, and it is only us, that has to look at ourselves in the mirror every morning.


Do we like what we see?

[Bassboy]

wise words shaggy

[Sandcrab]

...I do feel 9/11 had to have been planned much earlier than most may...


Shaggy,

You HAVE to read the 911 Comission Report. It tells all...It is available on the web for download or order the book online from the Govt Printing Office (GPO) for about $15.

Sandcrab

[sand flea]

The crazy thing is, it's the only government report ever up for a National Book Award (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A31097-2004Oct13.html). Reads like a thriller and was done by a non-partisan group. Tough on Dems and Repubs.

[jay b]

As far as F-9/11 I haven't seen it and probably never will knowing the fat, biased slob that made it, but I did see George Bush Sr.'s interview and his take on the "film". Now that was intertaining!! :D

[Big Rad]

I like the comparison between the two movies, POTC and F/911, because it points out an interesting fact. We are free to believe whatever we want. We also have things which we don't want to believe no matter how true they might be. Was a jewish person responsible for the crucifixion of Christ? YES! Does that make the movie anti-jew? No! The ultimate belief I have is that God is still in control. If anyone choses to identify with Ciaphas and align the entire jewish nation with his act, that is personal choice. I saw the movie and never once considered it to be anti-semetic.

As far as the leaders of any nation are concerned, they serve only because God says so. I read that in the Bible. I believe that. Can those leaders be manipulated by evil forces? YES!

Movies like these two remind us that there is an ultimate evil that exists in our world. It scares the human mind to consider how calculating and insidious evil can be. We sometimes chose to ignore the power of evil. It is a natural defense that we as humans employ. I find my solace in the fact that MY GOD is in control. If I didnt I'd be living in a cave somewhere or locked up in a rubber room. Evil has existed for a very long time.

Shaggy, I know that you are what I like to call a "deep thinker". I really would like to watch these movies with you just to watch your facial reactions. Now that they will allow the "Kerry Movie" we could add that to the want to see with Shaggy list. ;) :D

[shaggy]

Big Rad, don't know about the deep thinker thing (but thanks, I think it's a compliment), alot of times I only open mouth, insert foot. Yes I have my opinions and thoughts, many may be baseless, yet I endure and continue with life. I only brought up the POC by Gibson, becasue of the same sentiments that were voice of it being a one sided anti-Jew expose (and from my learning and views), Christ was a Jew, and yet I am not sure P. Pilot was, but if so, doesn't make the Jews bad, he&&, Americans right here kill Americans, whites kill whites, blacks kill blacks, whites kill blacks and blacks kill whites, that said it doesn't make us all bad, or does it?. Same for the the Kerry flick on some of the Sinclair Broadcasting stations.

I stand by my statement that I can look at myself in the mirror, and though far from perfect, I am okay with it.

Tell you what though, Navy beats Notre Dame tomorrow, you get F911 and the POC, we'll set a date, and I am there, we'll do some buttered popcorn, and talking for sure (and maybe TPOC first, I'll bring my wife and two daughters we can watch, and then you and I sit and watch F911). If Navy, forebid loses, met you a few times and you good people, I am still there, but maybe no butter on the popcorn.

Personally, from what I hear though, more facial expressions will be had from TPOC, and probably more wanting to discuss certain things during F911, which could lead to alot of pause control, which if you're up to it could lead to a long day of movies and talk. And then, maybe we go fishing, I really could use a wetting of the line.

[bassn]

Saw the first 10 minutes and had to turn it off. I personally found it offensive, but even worse, people take it a factual.

todd

[shaggy]

Okay, since I haven't seen the movie, many of these may be baseless, but none the less good food for thought:

http://www.davekopel.org/terror/59Deceits.pdf

Now, if these are true, and assuming a three hour movie, that would mean an average of about one deceipt every three minutes.

Also, Big Rad, after we sit and watch Farenheit 911, maybe we could sit and watch Farenhype 911. My feeling is we may be able to find the truth somewhere between both movies.

[Big Rad]

That is what I'm talking about Shaggy. I can't just debunk something without seeing it for myself. I hear the controversy and I can't wait to see the film.

As for the gentleman who watched ten minutes; How did you find it personally offensive? The first ten minutes happened and was reported by all the major and minor networks :(

[shaggy]

Well Rad, let's pick a date good for both of our families, if the rest aren't interested, you and I can have a moviethon, and the Misses and kids can do their thing. Maybe throw in a BBQ for some movie chow, and, not being or trying to be politically incorrect, maybe we can discuss the perceptions in "Black and White".

Hell, believe it or not, I really do have an open mind, it's just sometimes I tend to loose the key to unlock it. ;)

[bassn]

Anyone who makes a living defacing the Presidency, no matter who is in office, I find despicable. I find it hard to believe that the only thing the Bush did during the first however many months in office was fish, dig for bugs on his ranch and vacation. I pay somewhat close attention to all media sources, and I don't remember any of that dominating the headlines. I may be wrong, but again, I thought this was an open forum for all to share thier views.

I hold the upmost respect for the Presidency, and I find if offensive for someone to make a movie, I'm sorry, a documetary, bashing that office, especially during a time of war. You cannot sit there and say this movie was made to open peoples eyes to what the Pres was doing in the events leading to 911 and thereafter. It was made to create controversy here in American and throughout the world for the benefit of one man.

todd

[BubbaBlue]

The discussions you guys could have after watching POC and F911 could be pretty interesting. So much so that I almost asked to be a part of the party.

But then I realized that I'd have to sit through all of F911. :eek: :eek: :eek:
I feel that Moore's movies are very biased political views made out to look like truthful news documentaries. It would be hard for me to be objective in the discussion. I would be biased before you started the DVD.

The GF made me sit through Bowling for Columbine when it first came out and I felt it was filled with half truths. An opportunity for Moore to preach his beliefs on you... and if you watch it, you are letting him.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not hanging out there on the fringe Right Wing and I'm not really a big Bush fan either, but given the current choice, he has my vote, and no "documentary" Moore makes is going to change that.

Now, on to POC. I definitely would've liked to hear that conversation, and maybe take part in it. I saw it with my then 16 year old daughter. It initiated some really interesting discussions between us. We are now closer because of it. I don't feel it's appropriate for real young folks because of the graphic violence, but in my opinion it was worth a see, especially with someone that is important to you.

My $.02.

Good discussions on this thread. I hope they continue. :)

Rick

.

[shaggy]

Okay, so we get together for something other than fishing or clean ups, might be real interesting. Figure, we are all from different backgrounds and different upbringings, and thus different views on life's little wonders. Like I said, I might be opinionated, but I do have an open mind. Thing is, those interested, must be able to not take anything personally, because, "good friends" are hard to find and harder to replace.

In the scheme of life, none of this will really matter anyhow, we will still have to get up Monday morning, put our pants on one leg at a time, and get back to the real world of work, so we can afford to fish.

[bassn]

I agree shaggy. I would hold no ill will toward anyone of a different view. I just don't like people trying to benefit at the detrament of America. This country is so divided these days. I think if you don't like what someone is doing in government, it is your right to dissent, but be tactful about it. Observe how others view your dissention and the way you portray America to the rest of the world.

Big Rad, I would love to get together with all of you, fishing or not...but I tried F911 and didn't like it. I am in for the next movie night though. :)

todd

[Big Rad]

I smell something cooking here! I work for the great USA and I love my job. The president is my commander in chief. I catch all kinds of flack because I am a republican and my candidate won the last election........That being said I still stand behind my saying......."I couldn't imagine GORE being president after 9/11. As an average citizen we don't get all the "facts". Be advised, I was one of the first persons on scene at the Pentagon. I wondered where Eagle was. My first thoughts were for his safety.....Then I realised I should be concerned for my own safety :eek: Now we are poised on the verge of history once again (election 2004). You have to be able to separate the wheat from the chaff. I take my facts slightly warm and shaken vigorously.............

Who says we can't fish and watch movies? :D I bought a converter and a TV- dvd player that will sit nicely on a tailgate during a lull in the bite. We shall see. I study people and their actions and interactions. Hell I know I'm a strange duck.....

BLACK and WHITE

The day navy beats ND....nah...I won't say that. I used to work for them too. They were very good to me................ :D

[shaggy]

Okay, I am beginning to sense, fishing, movies and BBQ somewhere. Could it happen? Well if it does I am in, because it should be fun and entertaining. Fishing and cooking during a movie may make for a LONG movie, but heck I have spent three days on AI with nothing to show but sandies and AI flounder. As for the AI flounder, still shooting for that infamous record.

But I must say this conversation has lead me to want to see a few movies that up until now, I had no interest in seeing.

Take care Rad, we shall fish SOON! ;)

[sand flea]

Michael Moore is one of those guys that I think most people have a hard time believing. I personally don't care for him for the same reason I don't like the rightwinger Anne Coulter--they both make a living by being obnoxious and bending the truth.

He seems to be one of those figures that have become really popular these days. It used to be that we all had a common media, a common culture, a common set of people we trusted. These days there are so many choices about where we get our cable news, the sites we read, and our circles of friends that you can literally live an entire life without ever hearing the other side's point of view.

He's capable of being very funny and he's a talented filmmaker (then again, so was Leni Riefenstahl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leni_Riefenstahl)). Just realize that when you watch him, you're not watching an objective source; you're watching a propagandist. Ditto for Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh.

I'm all for your upcoming film festival. But I'd suggest you also watch a film that counters things from the right (http://www.citizensunited-interactive.org/c41.11/) and refuse to trust either.

All these folks have an agenda and we're all stuck trying to figure out what's true. So consume it all. Don't be close-minded. If you're a liberal, try reading National Review (http://nationalreview.com); if you're a conservative, try reading The Nation (http://thenation.com).

Just remember that anyone who claims to hold the entire truth is probably full of crap.

[shaggy]

Also, Big Rad, after we sit and watch Farenheit 911, maybe we could sit and watch Farenhype 911. My feeling is we may be able to find the truth somewhere between both movies.

I am with you Flea, and on a side note, this thread shows just what a BS board can do. Tame, civilized, open minded, and no trash talk.

Thanks for the forum, we old dogs can be taught new tricks.

[Big Rad]

I watch most of these type documentaries expecting to be amused. Sometimes there is some wheat buried in all the chaff. The finding is what helps me keep an open mind.

[Shoebag22]

I think that everyone should see f911 with a somewhat opened mind... some of the stuff in the documentary cannot be faked or made up i.e. the recruiting methods, the state of some of our towns and cities etc.

but the main reason to watch is it gives a little insight into how the conditions in Iraq really are. We always hear about the death count, but it's only a number until you see a screaming, wounded soldier. And here in the US, we never really think about what we are doing to the Iraqi people. Just video of them loading up truck beds with dead bodies says more than Moore ever wishes he could say.

[shaggy]

but the main reason to watch is it gives a little insight into how the conditions in Iraq really are. We always hear about the death count, but it's only a number until you see a screaming, wounded soldier. And here in the US, we never really think about what we are doing to the Iraqi people.

Actually it has been done before, news showed all (well pretty much all) during the Viet Nam War (conflict), press never really bashed the war (but it was a war started by a certain political party, and as we say now "for what?"), though many Americans were against us and our soldiers being there.

As for the conditions in Iraq, I am sure that there are more than a handul there who are glad Sodamn Insane is no longer in power, and won't have to worry about being tortured because your team lost a soccer "GAME", or tortured and killed because you didn't agree with him and his way.

War and military conflicts never were, aren't and never will be "pretty", and from what I have heard and read, don't need a pro Democrat like Moore blasting nothing but negativity, against the current Pres., with half truths, out of context quotes, rearranging the hows and whens of certain happennings. We all have to believe something, and it is everyone's right (thanks to those who have fought), to believe in what I am beginning to think is a massive idiot. ead up on his movie about Columbine, wow, ......

Now, I still am up for watching the movie, and Farenhype911 to get the other side, and will keep in mind the previous post concerning the deceipts and half-truths, but still think the truth lies somewhere between the two.

Hell, it's kinda like when they had the "oyster scare" back when, well, I didn't listen, kept eating 'em raw and I AIn't dead yet. Look, see, listen, hear, and when you make a decision, at least you can make your own based on what may only be partial facts from various sources, drawing your own conclusion.