Let's ban recreational fishing

[boatrage]

For our children. So I am thinking that if we ban recreational saltwater fishing (for this forum) just think of how the stocks of game fish will be replenished in a relatively short time. Or, at the least, let's make it entirely catch and release of all species for 10 years or more. Just think of the impact it would have on the fishing future of our children, not to mention the planet.

What's the impact, what's the benefits, who loses and who wins. Maybe we could produce a generation that loves to fish but wants to do so solely for the pleasure of it, not for table consumtion.

I find it interesting that eons ago safari hunting for wall trophies was the utmost experience. Now it has been replaced by safari photo shoots. Maybe a picture of a cool catch is way better than a fillet in the cooler.

Oh yeah I know we have to buck the evolutionary paradigm of macho dude bringing home meat to the ever grateful luscious female. Am I the only one who stopped at Food Lion to bring home store bought catch to impress the babes. Hey, it works for me.

Boatrage

Boatrage

[BubbaBlue]

Is this a troll?

I dissagree. I don't think the occasional striper, blue or flounder I bring home has much impact on the population.

Just for consideration, how much impact does the by-catch of the menhaden factory boats cause? 1000 times more than all of us, I bet.

My $.02.

.

[rattler]

menhaden boats have to catch and release too :D

[boatrage]

Sorry guys, I have a soft spot for the working man. Yup, they have a good sized impact on the eco but it's their livelyhood. They are not out there for fun.

If we bone up and take the hit now then they will also prosper.

[Cdog]

Nice sentiment but IMO flawed.

Just take the Ches Bay for example. If we (the recs) did completely go to catch and release and the comms were still allowed to go after the menhadden, there would be a complete collapse of all fish in the Bay.

Without recs to help thin the #'s and with no food source (menhadden) the stripers would start eating everything else. With no menhadden the pollution in the Bay would worsen and soon there would be a giant dead zone instead of one of the best striper areas in the country.

IMO.

[boatrage]

So are you saying that if it were not for the rec's culling the Stripers that at some point the Stripes would outsource the leftover baitfish. Thus it is only because of the rec's that the Stripers survive or don't impact on other species?

What the heck you smokin, bro. So are you telling me that the Stripper's sole reason for existance is to feed on Menhaden. Interesting, since there are no Menhaden in Lake Norman, NC.

[can't fish today]

I don't think it would work. There's enough dishonest folks around to cheat and make it not work. :mad:

JMHO



CFT

[Drumdum]

They eat every forage fish that comes by spot,croakers,trout,seamullet,h@ll I've even caught em with lingcod "red hake" in them!

Figure it this way,ya harvest one striper think of all the specks and seamullet ya save?? :D

This is just an example of the way the food chain works when there aren't enought menhaden to go around,as Cdog pointed out.. ;)

[The Bucket]

Bubba,

Troll or possibly worse ~ PETA type :mad:

Hot oil bath,

`FHB

[BubbaBlue]

Bucket, smells like one to me.

I find it interesting that eons ago safari hunting for wall trophies was the utmost experience. Now it has been replaced by safari photo shoots. Maybe a picture of a cool catch is way better than a fillet in the cooler.

Haven't seen any zebra steaks or elephant burgers at the Food Lion. Got seafood though.

Besides, it was the recreational and commercial anglers that pushed for the recovery of the striper population in the Chessie. It was for the purpose of eating them, not taking their picture.

I practice C&R most of the time but bring one home on occasion... and will continue to.

.

[Fish Bait]

I know your being a provocateur but I’ll take the bait anyhow.
Taking your proposition to its logical conclusion, should we just stop eating fish? What difference will it make if my dinner consists of a croker that I catch in the bay or one that I buy at the fish market? The ecosystem is minus one fish in either case.

[Cdog]

boatrage, sometimes I have a hard time puting whats in my head into words. :rolleyes:

Currently in the Bay, with comm and rec catching fish there are fish showing up with big heads and no body. That comes from too many stripers and not enough food(menhaden). SO yes it is my claim that if there was no pressure put on these fish they would literaly eat themselves out of existence. Comm crabbers are already blaming the stripers for the decline in crab catch. They are blamed for the decline in big bluefish.

Please understand I am not claiming to be an expert, this is just the way I look at it. ;)

BTW, I haven't smoked anything today. ;) :D

[noah]

Cameras no more displaced the Growing number of Hunters on Safari's than the modern massed produced tacklebox full of an anglers high tech gear does including camera's, now or then. Theres just more photographers taking better Pictures. It's seems a more likely solution and benefit to aging old fishermen nearing retirement who deserve to enjoy the desires of catching and eating an occasional fish over the next 1o years, if you used the same silly proposed illogical conclusion that a 10 year recreational moriturium would increase recreational fish stocks available 10 years from now by simply forbiding children to eat commercally caught and processed fish sticks and cans of tuna over the next decade. Sorry Kids, Charlie, Mrs. Paul's and Fisherman of the Sea!

[Digger]

Fix the baitfish problem and the gamefish will follow. Just check out Fla with their net ban.

[firstmatefluff]

....is more of a problem than recreational catches by far. While I too have a soft spot for the "working man", the truth is, saying we are the problem and they should be able to take as they have been is like saying there would still be bison all over the plains if it wasn't for them "damn Indians", and folks like William Cody would still be able to shoot hundred each day to earn their living--the buffalo disappeared due to overharvest. So did drum (almost) just a few years ago--that wasn't due to surf fisherman suddenly learning how to catch drum in the mid-80's, it was due to overharvest for "blackened redfish". All commercial, all just "working men".

Mark

[boatrage]

Guys you're getting me wrong. I am not saying that recreational folks are the problem, just saying we could help out with the solution that's all. Heck I know that if you stop all commercial fishing that the world would be a better place, especially for fishing. But you have to start with something that will get a toe hold.

OK, so I'll go ahead and assume that the ideas expressed about the Stripers is fact. So what about a ban on all rec fishing except Stripers that way the impact on the Stripers would be such that their numbers would be diminished down to levels to give the baitfish a chance. And come to think of it we could also allow fishing for the nonconsumable fish like Tarpon, Barracuda etc.

Oh yeah I am a card carrying member of PETA,

PEOPLE who EAT THE ANIMALS.

I am an omnivore not an herbavore

[firstmatefluff]

We could stop fishing (or keeping) and take some sort of smug satisfaction that we're doing the right thing, but bottom line is the numbers don't add up. For most fish targeted by sport and commercial interests, sport id between 1 and 10% of the take (if not less). That means if we bow out and wait for things to get better, we might save things for a year or 2, but our take isn't enough of a difference to keep the fishery from crashing.

I also don't think the original thread about stripers is being taken in context. I don't think anyone was suggesting the problem was too many stripers; there are if anything too few stripers, and even less baitfish. The problem isn't commercial or recrational fishing, it is overfishing in either area. It just so happens that in the ocean massive trawlers and spotting planes are far more efficient than we are. I have nothing against the "working guy", but he can't be allowed to strip the resource for everyone. Furthermore, left to do just that because you sympathize with him, he won't be a "working guy" in 5 years anyway--the fishery needs to be regulated, not raped, to protect fish for both recreational and commercial users.

[oldsalt]

Boy's I can tell this is going to be a looooong winter! just think it's only December 17 :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[tw]

not sure what kinda rock this guy boatrage crawled out from under. but as far as I know no one i know recreationally fishes for bunker. and, that fish has been on a steady decline, even when the striper pop was down. so much for the workin class mentality.. catch'em all, when there ain't no more we'll fish for something else.

[boatrage]

TW, maybe you need to search under "boatrage" and perhaps you'll find the rock that is my lair. I think that you'll be surprised. I ain't got a clue what a bunker is so maybe you can push some intelligence under my rock. Then again, maybe you'll look within and find something you're willing to learn.

I put out the bait, and you are the catch. Welcome to winter fishing mate.

[Cdog]

TW, maybe you need to search under "boatrage" and perhaps you'll find the rock that is my lair. I think that you'll be surprised. I ain't got a clue what a bunker is so maybe you can push some intelligence under my rock. Then again, maybe you'll look within and find something you're willing to learn.

I put out the bait, and you are the catch. Welcome to winter fishing mate.

You might wanna watch what you say. Admitting that you are trolling for a response could get one of the moderators to bounce you.

BTW, Bunker is slang for menhaden. ;)

[jcreamer]

seriously would someone tell me that compared to the commercial fishermen what real effect the sport fishermen have on the problem. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Cdog]

seriously would someone tell me that compared to the commercial fishermen what real effect the sport fishermen have on the problem. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I'm gonna go look for the exact #'s but I seem to remember reading somewhere that Rec landings in Va alone were estimated(we don't have to report out catches as the coms do) at somewhere around 20 million pounds.

I'll see if I can find the real #'s.

Wow, was I wrong. :rolleyes: Got this of the NOAA site.

Year TOTAL CATCH (TYPE A + B1 + B2) PSE
2003 1,372,499 9.2

[noah]

Do you mean to insist that only targeting and catching Tarpon and Barracuda instead of the more popular tablefare species regularly available like Red Drum, Striper, Flounder, Mackerals, etc would somehow rebuild the entire saltwater fishery. Are you implying your belief's are this supposively recreational Sacrifice or offering over the next ten years would guarentee recreational anglers more fish then? Did you consider in your reasoning that Tarpon and Barracuda are only available to a very slim minority of warmer climate anglers. Both species would be available only to the Rarist and Luckiest Surf and Pier anglers even under the best conditions. The majority of Shore Bound anglers would have a better chance of catching Malaria! Those above the Virgina tideline would have a greater chance of having the Publisher Clearing House show up at their front doors, winners check in hand every year for the next ten years. You've admitted you don't know what a Bunker, Porgy, Menhedan is. Its apparent you've have'nt witnessed the reaction of a menhaden when tossed into the water thats full of Barracuda. Welcome to school !

[Thrifty Angler]

cause yall guys don't let me push your buttons anymore. :(
Show me some love too! :rolleyes: ;)

[BubbaBlue]

TW, maybe you need to search under "boatrage" and perhaps you'll find the rock that is my lair. I think that you'll be surprised. I ain't got a clue what a bunker is so maybe you can push some intelligence under my rock. Then again, maybe you'll look within and find something you're willing to learn.

I put out the bait, and you are the catch. Welcome to winter fishing mate.

"No clue what a bunker/menhaden is" and a few other things...
I had to go look for the rock. Starting to make sense now. Our troll is one of our landlocked brethren. Charlotte, NC. Isn't that right Jim?

.

[HighCap56]

Winter Fishing? More like Winter BS.

You have less than a clue about Bunker and SWF in general and you want to propose regulations?

Sheesh....

I hear that Charlotte has some great racing. Maybe you can propose some restrictions to them to get less drivers killed.

RUN don't walk to your local racetrack and start your campaign. ;)

This thread is making me tired. Think I'm gonna fry up a mess of Bunker for breakfast... :rolleyes:

[Drumdum]

Ya yanked me in on the "Trolljob" too.. :rolleyes: Menhaden are the key,and Omega Protien is taking this food source away. With that gone,the stripers will go to other sources,that's why I mentioned the "other species" they eat. With the "Trolljob" sounds like you're getting an education from all the folks on here.
Now,I think I'll do some trolling myself..

Many members came on here and spoke of the lack of stripers and drum on this thread. I happen to disagree,been going to Hat every weekend and or living here since 75,so my figures aren't documented as Dmf and others are,but from observation, there are MORE stripers here than EVER! I'm not just including the ones that come down every winter from up north either,but the ones that actually live in the sound all summer.. Go to any of the boat docks down here at night and you'll get a clue on what I'm speaking of.. There are a few oletimers down here that will tell you that,in their lifetime they have never seen a striper in the Pamlico nor have they seen the # in the ocean that they are now seeing.. I think that you can credit Dmf and other groups for that,with regs,restocking,and doing their homework on that species.. ;)
As far as the drum population,it has been tracked mainyly by tags. The drum for the most part, get tagged from boats and piers with a few getting tagged in the surf. The fish,at least in the fall follow menhaden for the most part,and the menhaden no longer go down the beach like they used to,therefore no tags,no #..

In short,if folks can muster up a force to deal with Omega Protein,you'll see your stripers back,and your drummies in the surf,at least that's the observation I have made in the last 30 yr..

[jcreamer]

I for one have learned a lot from this thread. My wife hates to eat fish so when I go I usually keep what I can eat and either give what I catch to someone or if the fish is still alive I put it back.
Wife will cook the fish anyway I want buta flat refuses to eat any. Shrimp and Crabs fine but no fish.. Go figure.. :rolleyes:

[BubbaBlue]

Think I'm gonna fry up a mess of Bunker for breakfast... :rolleyes:

Mmmm, mmmm, good... makes my eyes water just thinking about it.
:D :D

.

[chesapeakecarper]

Good try boatrage but I'm all too curent on PETA's current PR campaign to stop the catching and eating of fish...ie the stop the fishing campaign. Guppies have feelings too...eh? Please, spare me your emotional diatribes cloaked in faux omnivorous chestbeating...you're an embedded tofu eater and you know it. Shed your crocadile tears into a salad to save the veggies.

BTW...since you're all touchy feely...have a nice day.

Earth First=People Last

[NTKG]

wow...

i understand this is an educational board, and i rarely will say something like this, but my mommy once told me that if i had a question to ask it, not speak without any intelligence because people remember you as THAT GUY!!!

in either case i'll let you know personally, that what you impose is impossible and would have the desired effect.

1. the funding that would be needed for LEO's to actually enforce a catch and release only policy would never, ever, ever happen. hell, i may win the publishers clearing house, but that kind of funding would be impossible.
2. the man power would be impossible to obtain.
3. list goes forever on the actual practice portion of your idea
4. the majority of fish you release will most likley die.
5. bunker play a HUGE role in the bay, esp with the decline in oysters etc....
6. what kenny said.
7. what that guy noah said, very intelligent individual, he doesnt merely use "big words" in his messages, he uses words as a tool to express his thoughts, unlike you who cant manage to even spell striper, stripper is what we go see necked
8. i like this board, dont be that guy that.... nobody likes THAT ______ guy...
9. i dont want to go on i cant believe i've already wasted this much time for such a poo thread.

on another note, i completely agree with kenny. the striper fishery is better than I have ever seen it in my 23 years of livin, most of wich have been spent fishin. there are plenty of drum around, i've seen and caught, and know plenty of people who catch the hell out of them. if there was more bunker, there would be more fish on near the beach, FACT.... if there was more bunker i'd see what i saw saturday afternoon a lot more, aint that right kennny????


neil

[Drumdum]

Just wish I'd taken the time to get some.. :rolleyes: :D It would have truely been a "once in a lifetime shot" .. :)

[rattler]

born and raised here and have been fishing since i was 7...used to go to OV pier when i was a kid and it was not unuasual to see 5lb+ flounder almost every time i went(every weekend)...then they let japanese(hi BOB). boats troll for shrimp offshore...every boat checked was over limit and still came back the next year...hey, i'll pay a $2000 fine on a $60,000 profit...in short, the flounder crashed and in my opinion still hasn't recovered...stripers were unheard of...i'm not talking anciant history(i'm 46)...but if you take the food source, the ones that really on it go to...OH...i went by the PETA office the other day an my way to the hospital(back injection)...and there were cars in the parking lot...THEY DON'T ALL WALK TO WORK SO THE ANIMALS DON'T DIE...if they don't all live in a tent and grow there own veggies...i don't even wat to talk to them...bet the ones that run it have BIG houses...JMHAO

[BillWetzel]

"Sorry guys, I have a soft spot for the working man. Yup, they have a good sized impact on the eco but it's their livelyhood. They are not out there for fun.
If we bone up and take the hit now then they will also prosper."--------

I usually do not respond to this controversial non sense, and since this is only my second post here pardon me if I am invading anyone’s space, but this type of thinking not only angers me, it is very dangerous. I do not think there is a chance in hell to ban recreational fishing, but less take it look at what would happen if there were a ban. I personally am a surf fishing guide (a working man) and would loose my business, and my home. Most of the bait and tackle shops if not all of them would loose their business as well-- they are also working people. Major lure companies as well as smaller ones would go out of business -- they are all working people. Fishing organizations that have fought hard for beach access, clean waters, preservation and management, and clean beaches would be out of business. They are also working people. Charter boats and their crews would go out of business—they are also working people. The list goes on and on and on. There is really a lot more to say but way waste my time. Sorry all—but this PETA type of thinking just gets my nostrils flaring!

[BigJeff823]

Oh Boy;another guy looking for trouble. :rolleyes: I think this is the guy thats smoking somthing. ;) HAVE A NICE DAY YOU TOFU EATIN BUFFOOON. ;)

[markedwards]

thats right i'm weighing in, boatrage i'll play devil's advocate on your proposal from 2 other states angles.1 ban nets florida did and the so called working guys there got in line and bought florida issued commercial hook and line licenses now these guys only target marketable fish and the recreational guys are right next to them and they coexcist and fish populations are the highest they have ever been since then LA and TX have entertained doing the same thing and raising the stakes in that texas has salwater hatcheries to help the redfish and seatrout populations recover sooner. 2 New Jersey banned menhaden netters from coming within 5 miles of land and now they have menhaden hugging the beaches in pods that can stretch for well over a mile with gamefish in hot pursuit.and the delaware bay is all but offlimits to the bigger commercial netters and now we are seeing them making a return on this side of the bay. and whether or not you are a card carrying member of peta you might wanna do some research on those vegetables you eat and the feed for that last steak you enjoyed have one thing in common they were both fed omega protien in either "high protein feed" for cattle and as a fertilizer for farmers. theres something to smoke over.

[Alforreca]

If you want to do something about that why dont you help in the fiscalization of commercial fishing. They are the ones that "sweep" the sea, that sometimes use illegal fishing techniques.

My grandfather told me this when I was a child and this is what I will tell my children...

"Only catch what you need to eat...not more"
"If you cant eat it....release it".

If you obey this rules the fish will thank you.

Pedro

[BigJeff823]

MrMarkEdwards:I heard about stocking programs in Texas and Mississipi(sp) that helped out the Speckled Trout population.Even MD has tried that with the Stipers in the early 1990's in the Chessie;don't need to now theres too many Stripers and not enough food.I wounder if they can do that with the Gray Trout too so DE can see some good Sea Trout runs?I would love to see them Weakies take over the DE Bay. :cool:

[jkcam]

I think a better solution to the demand vs. supply for any of our natural resources is to limit demand. Clearly, the World population explosion will be the ultimate demise of humanity, and most likely before that, any remnants of wildlife. Zero population growth is not enough, there has to be a negative population growth. Tough goal in the face of politics and religion that inspire expansion of their empires through propogation.

Consider the population growth in the last couple of centuries. Don't believe me? Well, how about this, in 1800 the World population was around 1 Billion.
Two hundred years later, 2000, take a guess.
Answer; 6.1 Billion!!!

Think we've stumbled upon a cause for the decline of fish as well as any other natural resource? Solution? Take your pick, war, desease, or steralization. Personally, I would pick option 3. Not a popular choice. Politics and religion would rather vote down No. 3 and just let 1 or 2 happen.

Short term, catch and release, and lower quotos for both recreational and commercial interests.

Heavy stuff, me, I'm not going to have to worry about it, but your grandkids probably will.

I'm headed to Bass Pro today to try and figure out what to use to catch and release what's left.

Happy New Year
jim