Total Closures Being Sought at OBX

[saltandsand]

Watch the video, they are requesting total closure of all capes and points, including FOOT TRAFFIC. It's painful to watch but try to view the whole video. Asking to be closed, year round for three years. Heck, the birds can't even successfully nest below the high tide mark.

http://media.putfile.com/Frank-Folb-with-maps-of-beach-closures

Here's some of the slides in the video:

<a href="http://tinypic.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i28.tinypic.com/2k0doj.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>

<a href="http://tinypic.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i25.tinypic.com/zohqtw.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>

<a href="http://tinypic.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i27.tinypic.com/24l68m9.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>

<a href="http://tinypic.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i31.tinypic.com/m774ih.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>

<a href="http://tinypic.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i25.tinypic.com/6nsdvl.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>

[saltandsand]

Talk about being drawn and quartered....dang. And IMO, should they be successful, it's going to be sought for beaches up and down the coast. This is totally over the top.

[basstardo]

It's already that way for the majority of beaches along the East Coast. That or it's permit based and you have to wait hours to get on the beach. I have a feeling tomorrow is going to be a heartbreaking day for many of us.

[Flipper]

The prelim injunction DOES NOT include foot traffic, only ORV driving. Whoever said that at the meeting was incorrect.

[DrumintheSuds]

If they get that you don't want to see what comes later. The bird is just a means to and end and that end is the "end of all people on any of these islands". One judge holds the entire future of any fishing, surfing, shell collecting, sunbathing and any form of recreation on any of these islands in his hands tomorrow. If they get us off the beach for good they could care less where the birds go. We will NEVER get it back.......

[saltandsand]

The prelim injunction DOES NOT include foot traffic, only ORV driving. Whoever said that at the meeting was incorrect.


Not saying they are correct and you are not but seeing that this has implications, do you know of a source to support this? If you don't know, that's okay.

[Flipper]

Not saying they are correct and you are not but seeing that this has implications, do you know of a source to support this? If you don't know, that's okay.
Yes. Source: Plaintiff's motion for PI:

For the reasons stated above, Plaintiffs respectfully request that this Court grant Plaintiffs’ motion
for preliminary injunction, and enjoin the Federal Defendants from allowing any ORV driving (except for
essential vehicles) in the critical areas at Bodie Island Spit, Cape Point, South Beach, Hatteras Spit, North
Ocracoke, and South Ocracoke on Cape Hatteras National Seashore as described in the “Moderate
Protection” recommendations of the USGS Management Protocols for piping plovers, colonial
waterbirds, and American oystercatchers and depicted in Figures 1 and 4 through 8 of the USGS
Management Protocol for Piping Plover.

[basstardo]

The prelim injunction DOES NOT include foot traffic, only ORV driving. Whoever said that at the meeting was incorrect.

Where did you hear that? They are supposed to have a narrow pedestrian corridor, but I'd put money on them closing that as well. These areas are going to be set aside for the birds, not for people.

[Flipper]

Where did you hear that? They are supposed to have a narrow pedestrian corridor, but I'd put money on them closing that as well. These areas are going to be set aside for the birds, not for people.
You're right. But those protections detailed in the "Moderate Protection" alternative are not sought in the current motion for PI, only those pertaining to ORV driving. That's not to say that they won't eventually seek to enjoin other activities listed under the protection alternatives; they probably will.

[basstardo]

What doesn't make sense to me is these areas are supposed to be closed for the protection of wildlife. It almost seems implied that it will be devoid of ANY access. If you walk into a bird closure now you'll get hammered. I don't get what would make these proposed closures any different. Maybe they're doing that to make the blow seem a little softer.:confused::rolleyes:

[saltandsand]

Flipper...much appreciate a link to the injunction should you have one. Thanks.

Let's consider that this land is .0000003237% of the land mass of the United States. That's not even a third of one millionth of one percent. Yet seemingly small this barrier island stands to significantly change the livelihood, hobbies, vacations and quality of life for a significant number of people. And, IMO it may lead to major changes on beaches with access up and down the east coast. Let's not forget that the cape at the north end of Cape Henelopen is closed now and forever to ORV access.

[dirtyhandslopez]

Well, if they do leave a pedestrian corridor, then it's bikes at dawn people. Use a truck to get the bikes to the hard sand at low tide, fish the tide up and back down and start peddling back. The last hump on the way back thru the ramp will be the hardest. We'll have to make someone walk to get the truck.

[Flipper]

Well, if they do leave a pedestrian corridor, then it's bikes at dawn people. Use a truck to get the bikes to the hard sand at low tide, fish the tide up and back down and start peddling back. The last hump on the way back thru the ramp will be the hardest. We'll have to make someone walk to get the truck.
Sounds rough. Even worse, bikes may be held to be ORV's.

[Dyhard]

THIS IS SICK!
To think Toyota has a hand in this.
Revenge is all I can think about!

[Flipper]

Flipper...much appreciate a link to the injunction should you have one.
You can go to the SELC site. Links at the bottom of the page on the right.

http://www.southernenvironment.org/cases/hatteras/index.htm

[saltandsand]

Sounds rough. Even worse, bikes may be held to be ORV's.


JeepMike might know the answer to this.

[Dyhard]

Heres some adresses of the people that hate us.
Send them a message!!
HQ and VA/TN Office
201 West Main St., Suite 14
Charlottesville, VA 22902-5065
(434) 977-4090
Fax (434) 977-1483
NC/SC Office
200 West Franklin St., Suite 330
Chapel Hill, NC 27516-2559
(919) 967-1450
Fax (919) 929-9421
GA/AL Office
The Candler Building
127 Peachtree St., Suite 605
Atlanta, GA 30303-1840
(404) 521-9900
Fax (404) 521-9909

[basstardo]

THIS IS SICK!
To think Toyota has a hand in this.
Revenge is all I can think about!

As much as it sucks, you can't really blame Toyota if the beaches close. They're a car company, and by and large the rest of country is worried about the environment. They're doing what they have to to sell cars and be envorinmentally friendly in the eyes of consumers. They also did it to shake off some bad press from the past about environmental concerns towards them. Just about any large automobile manufacturer is under that microscope at this point. Having said that, I still don't like Toyota.

If you want revenge, join OBPA and put some of your money into this fight. It's a safe bet they're going to need it. Get your letters in the mail and you e-mails flying too. Every little bit helps.

[saltandsand]

Looking at the Complaint, not the injunctrion, here's one aspect of relief sought: "G. In the interim, until a long-term plan to manage ORV use at the Seashore is implemented, issue an injunction ordering Defendants to restrict ORV use at the Seashore to provide adequate protection to resources and minimize conflict with other uses of the Seashore." Although this is not being heard tomorrow for the injuction, it does indicate a request for relief beyond merely restricting ORV access. Other facts asserted are 1,000 foot buffers.

All it will take is one wingnutt to walk into one of the the areas, if such foot traffic is to be allowed, and do damage in anyway to a bird, nest, egg or otherwise disrupt them in any measured way. STAY AWAY, PERIOD. What are the odds that all the wingnutts will stay tightly torqued down and not a single one will get out of line?

[Flipper]

Looking at the Complaint, not the injunctrion, here's one aspect of relief sought: "G. In the interim, until a long-term plan to manage ORV use at the Seashore is implemented, issue an injunction ordering Defendants to restrict ORV use at the Seashore to provide adequate protection to resources and minimize conflict with other uses of the Seashore." Although this is not being heard tomorrow for the injuction, it does indicate a request for relief beyond merely restricting ORV access. Other facts asserted are 1,000 foot buffers.
Yes, the complaint is much broader than the PI, which is almost always the case. Pedestrian traffic, dogs, etc. will be addressed when the case is heard on the merits, if not before.

[saltandsand]

THIS IS SICK!
To think Toyota has a hand in this.
Revenge is all I can think about!

Kindly DO NOT TAKE IT OUT IN ANY WAY ON THE BIRDS.... THIS WILL BACKFIRE BIG TIME. Not saying that you intend this, not at all. I totally agree that supporting the opposition with financial wealth is like packing it up and not even fighting. I'm not in agreement with Bass about Toyota not being accountable.

[saltandsand]

Yes, the complaint is much broader than the PI, which is almost always the case. Pedestrian traffic, dogs, etc. will be addressed when the case is heard on the merits, if not before.

Probably beforehand IMO...but I sure hope not.

[basstardo]

I'm not in agreement with Bass about Toyota not being accountable.

What are you going to hold them accountable for though? The percentage of Toyota's bought solely for beach access versus their total nationwide annual sales is probably minute. I'd bet the majority of the people who had a hand in that contribution have never even heard of Cape Hatteras.

Yes, I would have much rather seen that money go to OBPA, but back up and look at this from 30,000 feet instead of inside the bubble. Like I said before, I still don't like Toyota, but if you wanted to boycott everyone who makes charitable donations to environmental causes, you'd have slim pickin's for options. How much different would your view of this be if Toyota donated to the Whale and Dolphin Conservation Society or the Sierra Club?

[JeepMike]

Bikes are tricky business in the state of NC. Bikes have legal road rights, where as ATV's do not. I also have seen these "pedestrian corridors" they have in place on the hatteras spit... They are a joke. I could take a mini cooper, cut it in half, and still not be able to drive down there.

Maybe that judge will get laid tonight... We are all sitting around with our fingers crossed for tomorrow guys!

As far as bikes being allowed on the beaches if ORV's are banned, I asked a ranger that one today and he said he didn't know. They were getting geared up as well, maybe for some civil disobedience if the decision goes awry tomorrow? Idk, but the tension is building down here.

[basstardo]

I bet by tomorrow afternoon you'll be able to cut the tension with a knife down there. I'm already getting antsy and it's the day before.:(

[Flipper]

Maybe that judge will get laid tonight...
You might want to refrain from such comments.

[lil red jeep]

Not wanting to sound like a religious fanatic, but lets think about this for a minute. How many times in our lives have any of us faced a potential hardship, and I mean a real hardship, and turned to the Lord in prayer? Probably 98% of us at some point. That being said, my prayers go out tonight for the judge in this case to enter into this with a clear mind and without any undue influence from the plaintiffs. I pray that his decision will be in the best interest of the residents and businesses affected by his decision. I pray that this judge will see through the smoke and mirrors these environmental groups bring into this and that he not bend make a poorly thought out decision. Prayers for those who make their livelyhood directly and indirectly from the beach access.

We all like/ love having the ability to enjoy this beautiful resource, but the larger picture here is literally lives and lifestyles are at stake. So I pray that this issue will not be overlooked by the judge. Remember, God is a Tarheel! Look at that Carolina Blue sky! Pray folks, like you really mean it!:)

[EverSoDull]

God is a Tarheel! Look at that Carolina Blue sky! Pray folks, like you really mean it!:)


I had something ugly to say but you changed my mind;)

My very best to ALL.....

[Rockstar]

This will be truly sickening and heartbreaking if this goes into effect...

[saltandsand]

Last I heard there may be a compromise. That would be ideal for both sides. Anyone have current news? I'll let ya know what I hear.