$4.00 for gas will look good.......

[steve grossman]

when oil hits $200 a barrel. Remember, a few weeks ago when I and the rest of the world was crying about filling up at $3.20.

Pretty disgusting to think, and say $3.20 looking back was a deal.

By the fall, we all may say $4.00 was a deal. What is this country coming to with all this???

Just a thought--Steve

[saltandsand]

Take your wallet, remove all the money, all credit cards, and throw them away. Take all the documents you have showing title to everything you own and throw them away. Pack up a hobo bag and hit the road. It's over, they've won... now let's all sit around and do nothing for weeks and weeks just like they did during the depression. I'm so sick of this and we all sit around like a bunch of giddy high school girls thinking it's some kind of joke... hey, this is for real and they're not taking prisoners...but those who have more affluence than I are still thinking this is a joke...

[steve grossman]

The people who own the gas stations. Are THEY getting rich or is it??????

[Metallica20687]

nah, gas stations themselves make a very minimal amount per gallon...thats why they are all mini-markets as well.

[Malakas07]

funny I just read this article:cars Mythbusters and Electric (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/transportation/4264025.html?series=19)


MythBuster: Why Electric Vehicles Beat Gas in 5 Extreme Tests
In a PopularMechanics.com exclusive, Jamie Hyneman breaks down his team's most recent eye-popping experiment: rolling out a Ferrari, Harley, ATV, compact car and hand-built go-kart to the track, and pitting each against its electric-propulsion counterpart. The bottom line? Plug-in vehicles aren't just clean, they're fast—and might be easier to build than a toy car.

[Southern Man]

The people who own the gas stations. Are THEY getting rich or is it??????

You tell me Crude = $130.00 a barrel a barrel is 42 Gals. 42 - $130.00 = $3.10 per gal for crude. Then that crude has to be refine, shipped and pumped. That is spreading that $0.60 pretty thin.
Someone is getting rich, but I promise you its not the man @ the filling station.

[RuddeDogg]

$3.97 up here for Premium

[saltdog]

3.85 for the cheap stuff and 4.15 for premium i heard close ta 5 bucks by the end of summer and maybe 7 bucks by end of next summer over in england its 10-12 bucks a galllon and that could happen here, soon it'll be like mad max around here with people stealin gas and booby trappin their tanks:mad:

[RuddeDogg]

I feel sorry for a buddy of mine. He just bought a 2008 F-450 with 2, 38 gallon tanks.
it's bad enough that diesel up here runs about $4.50 a gallon but his truck payment is $25.00 less than what I pay in rent!!!!!

[the rhondel]

I asked the guy that owns our intown discount station what he makes....6cents per gallon.He said he makes whatever $ off the food stuff,cigs and beer.....sounds like it barely pays the kid that takes the check or cash........pity the small business man:( the R

[steve grossman]

I Pity Us For Having To Shell Out This Bs Amount Of Money To Live Our Lives Out...

[JeepMike]

Gas has hit $4.15 here on Hatteras Island. It costs me $65.00 a week to drive to work and back, let alone if I need to run up the beach a little bit. I wish we could get public transportation here, maybe open air trolleys in the tourist times, heck we only have one road. I might seriously buy a moped soon. I know they look goofy and usually reserved for people with too many DUI's, but I could save some serious green cruising the island in that thing. People are saying it will hit $5.00 a gallon. What sort of options have you guys thought about to combat this?

[steve grossman]

Growing Wings...or buy a horse

[JeepMike]

Growing Wings...or buy a horse

Horses are 10x more expensive brother...

[bigpapamd1]

this country the 1 i live and love deserves everything we are getting for putting that fool in the whitehouse twice. and if you dont believe that than you are a D.... Fool!!!

[LEADDRAFT]

Fellers, I've been here at this site for a LOOONG Time, I've only mentioned this once or twice before..
I've Mentioned the concept or, Theroy of *Peak Oil*....
Guys/Gals, think of the Earths glass as now Half-Full, or Empty, We've went through the EASY stuff first, the rest is getting harder and more expenivse too extract, think of that commerical of the Kid sucking through a straw too get the last bit of Milk shake...

ON A FINITE RESOURCE
We, Globaly have used the sweet easy stuff first, now are faced with SOUR hard too extract Crude Oil, with raising demand with a Dimishing Supply...
The WORLD is extracting 86 +/- millions of barrels every day, now facing a IRRVERSABLE declince, while the Human race is using more than can be extracted and needing more, just like a Herion user..
Oil being our drug..
Great coversation over at a site, the Oil drum
and I'm providing a Link here, take time too look at them, PLEASE..
In addition a link too Todays TOP Story on MSNBC this Morning..
When Crude Oil was 35/40 Dollars per Barrel, I said it would go up too 100+, and I mention this *THEROY* , and ya'll said I was crazy!

I suggest you watch this short Clip from CNBC,
Robert Hirsch talks "Peak Oil"...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=747947551&play=1

What T. Boone Pickens says.....

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=747990771&play=1


Look for 12 or Higher for Gas in the Future..
This *Idea* is getting mainstream attention now..

[saltandsand]

Leaddraft...BINGO! I don't think you are crazy. I've been saying similar topics without much reception. Oil is running out. Most estimates say it will not be viable in as little as 25 years.

Here's another point. Conservation does indeed affect the price.

Oil prices fell below $127 a barrel Wednesday, extending a decline of more than $3 in the previous session on a growing sense that record-high costs have cut demand for gasoline and other fuel.

...estimated vehicle miles traveled ... on all U.S. public roads for March 2008 fell 4.3 percent, or 11 billion miles, compared with March 2007. "In fact, this is the first time estimated March travel fell since 1979 and the largest year-on-year drop in the history of the report, which dates back to 1942," said the Schork Report.

But somehow it seems there will be those that will continue to argue that conservation and implementing alternate energy sources are both bad. It escapes me why that argument even exists anymore.

[saltandsand]

Horses are 10x more expensive brother...


But when you run out of food one could, hypothetically, eat the horse...just a statement not that I'm saying this is a course of action we should be considering.

[Malakas07]

But somehow it seems there will be those that will continue to argue that conservation and implementing alternate energy sources are both bad. It escapes me why that argument even exists anymore.

Hence the article I posted above.

Who killed the electric car ? < ---- google it. Watch it.

rumors of the 2009 Toyota plug in Prius expected to achieve over 100+ mpg.

Honda just announced a 5 passenger plug in hybrid for 2009.

SAY FU to the oil hungry goverment/ car companies and buy one of these things when they come out. Who cares who makes it.

If the people move in this direction then a 4x4 sport utility or 4x4 truck able to achieve 100+ mpg won't be far behind.Imagine visiting a gas station every 4-8 weeks. The UAE would sink in the damn persian gulf.

right now it looks like we are the only ones who can free ourselves. The Dems and GOP seem to be ignoring it.

[J_Lannon]

The world is not even close to running out of oil.

But regardless....... I hope to see the future of automobiles head towards hydrogen, or some other clean alternative than the BS ethanol that the eco-nazi's keep pushing us towards.

The congress needs to back off the drilling restrictions here in the United States, so we can go after our own oil. We will never have any bargaining power with foreign oil companies until they realize that we have out own resources up and running.

If we keep voting for liberals, and socialists,.......we will all be walking soon. Mr Obama says that we cant eat like we do, or drive like we do, and live like we do and expect the world to say..........ok?

[saltandsand]

See, just like I said. Won't be long until some party-line toting individual starts spouting words of so-called wisdom.

The way alot of the party-liners talk they'd be better off stuffing their wallet into their mouth since their wallet is the only thing they speak from.

But I'll put the facts out again...only to be dismissed summarily by those who cling to their political agenda:

How old is the oil industry? It was born about 145 years ago in Titusville, Pennsylvania.

Has production peaked? It sure has, see the graph.

http://i25.tinypic.com/2ci8ysl.gif

Although some other recognized estimates say that peak production will occur in 2010, 2013 and 2020. A mere 12 years away at best. I have not identified a single estimate that pushes peak production into any assemblage of a sustainable long term model (ugh, I'll define these terms later.)

What is the estimate of available petroleum reserves still remaining? There may be 57 ZJ of oil reserves on Earth (although estimates vary from a low of 8 ZJ). Other estimates exist and this gets at the core of the viability issue, the only issue worthy of discussion.

Has worldwide use expanded significantly? Uh, yeah and no doubt about it, see DOE, EIA Table 18. That's a 20 percent increase in the past 10 years, a 15 percent increase for the preceding decade...an escalating rate of consumption...predicted to only escalate further as China and India move up the industrialization curve.

Will oil run out? Uh...no. But it will become no longer viable. What's the difference? Read this and find out: http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

But then again it's all just political balony, correct? Yeah right...tell me another one, I need a laugh.

Once oil is no longer viable and we've sat by an listened to those who lie about how long it will last we will pay an incredible cost for each and every aspect of modern life, assuming we are even able to pony up to get moving at all. Planning starts now, not at the 11th hour, no excuses otherwise. Time for debate is OVER....meaning it's DONE....stated as "Let's get her moving NOW!!"

[saltandsand]

Problem is that some of us have just gotten to darn comfy with the way things are/were...I suppose that's not so bad, it's human nature. Then again it's also human nature of some to get over on others and we ought not tolerate this anymore, no matter what the excuse is.

[Blue Heron]

I just received this from a friend and I don't know if it is true. I'm not posting this to change anyone's behavior nor am I suggesting that any action be taken. I just thought it was interesting.

Blue Heron


WHERE TO BUY YOUR USA-GAS

WHERE TO BUY YOUR USA-GAS, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO KNOW. READ ON--
Gas rationing in the 80's worked even though we grumbled about it.
It might even be good for us!

The Saudis are boycotting American goods.

We should return the favor.

An interesting thought is to boycott their GAS.
Every time you fill up the car, you can avoid putting more money into the coffers of Saudi Arabia Just buy from gas companies that don't import their oil from the Saudis.

Nothing is more frustrating than the feeling that every time I fill-up the tank, I am sending my money to people who are trying to kill me, my family, and my friends.

I thought it might be interesting for you to know which oil companies are the best to buy gas from and which major companies import Middle Eastern oil.

These companies import Middle Eastern oil :

Shell.......................... 205,742,000 barrels
Chevron/Texaco......... 144,332,000 barrels
Exxon /Mobil............... 130,082,000 barrels
Marathon/Speedway... 117,740,000 barrels
Amoco...........................62,231,000 barrels

Citgo......................from Venezuela , from a Dictat o r who hates Americans, nationalized (stole) the US companies that discovered, drilled for, extracted and refined the oil If you do the math at $30/ barrel, these imports amount to over $18 BILLION! (oil is now $90-$95 a barrel)

Here are some large companies that
DO NOT import Middle Eastern oil! Do THIS, instead:

Sunoco...................0 barrels
Conoco..................0 barrels
Sinclair................0 barrels
BP/Phillips...........0 barrels
Hess.......................0 barrels
ARC0....................0 barr el s

All of this information is available from the Department of Energy; each company is required to state where they get their
oil and how much they are importing.
But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of gas consumers. It's really simple to do.

Here's how to reach millions of people:

I'm sending this note to about thirty people .

If each of you send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and

those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) .. and

so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth generation of forwarding,

we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers !!!!!!!

If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten
friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted!

If it goes one level further, you guessed it ..... THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!
< FONT color=#ff0000>
Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people. How long would that take?

If each of us sends this e-mail out to ten more people within one day, all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next day.

[saltandsand]

Fantastic Blue Heron. Nice perspective and a reasonable plan. Stick it to em in the wallet! Just remember that most of our oil is imported from Mexico, Canada and South America. Great plan nonetheless, I will begin to implement it with today's gasoline purchase. Thanks, and I hope others choose to participate instead of complain and do nothing, or worse when they sit and deny there's any problem at all. I sent the following message to 14 people already:



"The Saudis are boycotting American goods.

We should return the favor.

These companies import Middle Eastern oil:

Shell.......................... 205,742,000 barrels
Chevron/Texaco......... 144,332,000 barrels
Exxon /Mobil............... 130,082,000 barrels
Marathon/Speedway... 117,740,000 barrels
Amoco...........................62,231,000 barrels
Citgo...............................from Venezuela

Here are some large companies that DO NOT import Middle Eastern oil, buy from them:

Sunoco...................0 barrels
Conoco..................0 barrels
Sinclair................0 barrels
BP/Phillips...........0 barrels
Hess.......................0 barrels
ARC0....................0 barrels


All of this information is available from the Department of Energy."

THANKS!!!!!!!!!

[LEADDRAFT]

Credits too the highly educated people of here, http://www.theoildrum.com ,,,Whom are a bunch of Acdemics that that scrounged the Net, old Journals, EVERY scrap of Information, Analize this, piece things together and Analize it..
For example they have poured over Sat. Images of KSA, Saudia Arabia's Oil fields, Old known papers from back into the 60's etc and pieced together the state of the Oil industry there, meaning reserves, and it's pretty informative and Scary..

OK I got rambleing...
*********************************

Credit's too "the Oil Drum" on this piece which appeared today, while I don't think I can get the graphs and Charts too appear here, I'll provide this link..--->
http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/4007#more Copy and Paste some here..Just in HOPES that you'll get interested in reading the following Link..
And WAKE THE HE// UP!
:eek:

Why oil costs over $120 per barrel



Global Total Liquids production and oil price, January 2002 to present. Production data from the IEA, data files supplied by Rembrandt Koppelaar. Monthly average WTI oil prices from Economagic.


With oil reaching $135 / barrel, Oil Drum readership exceeding 30,000 unique visitors per day and many wild stories circulating in the MSM as to why oil prices are so high this post strives to explain why oil prices are rising exponentially.



Production and demand
The most significant feature of the chart up top is the dog leg in production growth in 2004. Prior to then the flow of new oil field projects combined with increasing utilisation of spare capacity allowed global oil production to grow and to meet much of the growth in demand.

In 2004, OPEC spare capacity fell close to zero (see below) and the world struggled for a number of reasons to bring on new supply to compensate for decline (see below). The slowing of production growth has meant new supplies are insufficient to meet growing demand and the price has gone up to balance the books. Higher prices stimulate conservation that may take the form of fuel efficiency (driving a smaller car) or abstinence (poor people being priced out of the energy market).

Every year a large number of new oil fields are brought on line. However, this does not directly translate to growth in supplies since amongst other things the production decline in existing fields needs to be replaced first:



new annual production capacity = consumption growth + annual decline + spare capacity growth

Decline
All oil wells, oil fields and oil provinces are exposed to a phenomenon called decline. Producing oil depressurises the sub-surface reservoirs and uses up the reserves. With time the proportion of water to oil that is produced in any well increases (increasing water cut) and this combined with depressurisation leads to declining oil flow rates.

Combined, these processes result in naturally declining production. It has been estimated that the global average decline rate is 4.5% per annum. (personal communication, Peter Jackson, CERA). What this means is that every year the global oil industry must bring on stream 3.8 million barrels per day new production just to compensate for decline (4.5% of 85 mmbpd). If less than 3.8 million bpd are commissioned then global oil production will fall and vice versa.

As global oil production has risen, the annual new capacity required to offset decline has gone up too. Bearing in mind that all the best fields have already been produced, annual decline must be offset using second and third class oil fields. This task eventually becomes impossible and a production plateau is attained. That is where we are right now.

Net energy and energy density
The world has already used up a large proportion of its best oil reserves. These are the light sweet crude oil reserves produced on shore from first class reservoirs.

This chart shows that a growing proportion of world total liquid fuels production comprises second generation liquids - e.g. natural gas liquids, syncrude from tar sands and biofuels.. These are essentially synthetic liquids that need to be created and the process of creation uses energy. The term used to describe this concept is Energy Return on Energy Invested (ERoEI) and while historic oil production may have had large ERoEI numbers greater than 100, these synthetic liquids have low ERoEI. Around 1.2 in the case of temperate latitude ethanol and 5.0 in the case of syncrude produced from tar sand. The main point is that a steadily growing proportion of the global total liquids production is being used to produce these liquids leaving less for society to use than the bare figures may suggest.

Go read the rest...
Happy reading, those Charts & Graphs DON'T LIE...

http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/4007#more

[J_Lannon]

See, just like I said. Won't be long until some party-line toting individual starts spouting words of so-called wisdom.

The way alot of the party-liners talk they'd be better off stuffing their wallet into their mouth since their wallet is the only thing they speak from.

But I'll put the facts out again...only to be dismissed summarily by those who cling to their political agenda:

How old is the oil industry? It was born about 145 years ago in Titusville, Pennsylvania.

Has production peaked? It sure has, see the graph.

http://i25.tinypic.com/2ci8ysl.gif

Although some other recognized estimates say that peak production will occur in 2010, 2013 and 2020. A mere 12 years away at best. I have not identified a single estimate that pushes peak production into any assemblage of a sustainable long term model (ugh, I'll define these terms later.)

What is the estimate of available petroleum reserves still remaining? There may be 57 ZJ of oil reserves on Earth (although estimates vary from a low of 8 ZJ). Other estimates exist and this gets at the core of the viability issue, the only issue worthy of discussion.

Has worldwide use expanded significantly? Uh, yeah and no doubt about it, see DOE, EIA Table 18. That's a 20 percent increase in the past 10 years, a 15 percent increase for the preceding decade...an escalating rate of consumption...predicted to only escalate further as China and India move up the industrialization curve.

Will oil run out? Uh...no. But it will become no longer viable. What's the difference? Read this and find out: http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

But then again it's all just political balony, correct? Yeah right...tell me another one, I need a laugh.

Once oil is no longer viable and we've sat by an listened to those who lie about how long it will last we will pay an incredible cost for each and every aspect of modern life, assuming we are even able to pony up to get moving at all. Planning starts now, not at the 11th hour, no excuses otherwise. Time for debate is OVER....meaning it's DONE....stated as "Let's get her moving NOW!!"

From a non party liner......


We can cut and paste charts all day long to make the outlook come out in each others favor.

The fact remains that we had a chance to get to get away from our dependency of foreign oil years ago, but our congress caved in to a very small percentage of tree huggers just to gain a few political points. End the end..............the minority over ruled the majority due to the lack of concern from the general public.

Even if we could get the oil at 1/2 the cost right now, we are still screwed because we cannot refine it. The refineries have been stretched to thier limits for the past 30 years. Look how the prices jumped after Hurricane Katrina. One hurricane had us spending another 40 cents a gallon.

IN THE USA :

We cannot build nuclear plants. ( too dangerous..... Thanks Jane!) Power plants account for 40% of petroleum used every day in the USA.

We cannot build refineries... (too dirty) Another Katrina type catastrophy could cause a 2 dollar jump in gasoline prices over night.

We cannot explore for oil ......with a very few limited exceptions. (We might kill the lop sided funky blue spotted owl)

IN THE USA:

We can dig for all of the coal that we want. Most of the tree huggers with political impact live in the north west. So it is OK to go to West Virginia and rape every mountain top for coal. Brooks and rivers run black with coal sediment. Acid rain from the petroleum and coal fired power plants have ruined alot of the forests and lakes in the northeast.

Speculators for brokerage firms can make a run on the oil market to drive up the price of oil to enhance thier clients 401 k's ! ....... Thats right, up to 61% of americans with a 401K make profits from oil.

We let the rag heads and little dictators decide how much oil we can have, and at what price, depending on how much they like us at the moment.

We allow the congress and senate to drag executives of oil companies into the hall to humiliate them in front of the cameras just to make every stupid american think that it's not the Govt's fault for the price of gasoline. But the Goverment..........Federal, State, and local take up to a 60 cent cut on every gallon of oil. Very few senators or congressmen have done anything usefull to help the current situation.


Here one article that has pissed off OPEC recently.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120459389654809159.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

[Sea2aeS]

I think $4 a gallon will look cheap a few days after the first category 3-4 hurricane takes aim at the gulf of mexico.
think about it, as bad as gas prices are now, if a major hurricane takes aim at the gulf of mexico, all hell will break loose. Its obvious this chitcan joke of a president could give 2 chits about this country anyways, figure itll be another reason for oil prices to soar.
the next 10 years will be long, if this country even makes it that far.

[dirtyhandslopez]

Not having read the last posts or several, I feel free to add a comment. What America is doing, I believe, is sucking all of the oil most of the major oil producing countries, regardless of collateral damage, because when those countries are either unable to produce or it becomes uneconomical to take it from those places, then it will kick out the super-enviromentalist, and start sucking it's own oil. Which is good. The only problem being, everyone thinks that gas and taxes are high now...Oh, and we do like to fish, don't we? Welcome to your world.
Come on some 5$ a gallon, let's get this thing started:eek:
Sea2Seas, long time no speak/hear. Rome got big and went down hill all of a sudden, didn't it?
I have a feeling there will be cobia on the beach down south around BBQ time. You wading/coming?

[saltandsand]

The refineries are keeping up with demand. Let's see the charts, please.

Kindly introduce this topic into the discussion: http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53103&highlight=MDE

[Sea2aeS]

Sea2Seas, long time no speak/hear. Rome got big and went down hill all of a sudden, didn't it?
I have a feeling there will be cobia on the beach down south around BBQ time. You wading/coming?



Some draft dodger from texas is running rome into a pile of ruins. Stick around, its gonna get even more interesting, this is just the tip of the iceberg.

negative on the voyage south, or anytime soon. not making the trip if I cant shark my favorite areas. "IF" said areas reopen and for 24/7 use ill be there in full force. You got my cell DHL, ive called you a few times & never hear anythin.

[LEADDRAFT]

Maybe this Video will help get the Message across for some of ya'll guys...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAPf9V3_li0

Enjoy.... It's Shes is *HOT* ;P

[Metallica20687]

I feel sorry for a buddy of mine. He just bought a 2008 F-450 with 2, 38 gallon tanks.
it's bad enough that diesel up here runs about $4.50 a gallon but his truck payment is $25.00 less than what I pay in rent!!!!!

man, your buddy really should have held out on that truck...V8's are going down in price real fast

[steve grossman]

It seems like yesterday, when I opened up this thread. At $139 a barrel, are we looking at $4.50 a gallon this week for 87 octane??

As I stated weeks ago with this thread, I felt, very soon, in the future, $4.00 a gal would look good.

Just came back from Punta Cana Dr. Gasa over there is $7.00 a gallon, with an average income of $200-$300 a month, with a 45%+ unemployment rate.

[saltandsand]

$5 per gallon, coming soon to a town near. Some projections say higher than $5 a gallon by the end of the year.

Yeah and we'll still hear some who think it's going to go away. Right, sure, uh huh... gasoline went down in price once, that was August 2007, and that was just to get us all set to take the big punch in the face.

After record profits, ask not you can do for your oil company ask what your money-mongering oil company can do for your government.

[steve grossman]

That old song--"THEY got the goldmine, we got the shaft"......

[the rhondel]

You better gas up TODAY...oil went up 15 bucks the past 2 days but it hasn't been reflected at the pump..well over $4 any hour now......just filled up every vehicle I own.....don't wait....the R

[LEADDRAFT]

5.00 May look good by the 4th of July..
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=4162109n

[steve grossman]

So Long, $4.00 Gas--it Was Nice Knowing You While It Lasted.

Thank You Oil Companies, Middle East Opec People. Thank You Us Politicians, While It Lasted....

[LEADDRAFT]

3.99 yesterday.....
ALL stations 4.05+ today...
Plenty changing signs as I was headed too the beach...