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View Full Version : Folks, We are Approaching the Event Horizion


LEADDRAFT
10-08-2008, 12:58 PM
Folks a Friend Wrote this, this Morning...
He is a very intelligent Trader, with a plan to get America out of this Mess...
He writes the "Market Ticker" some Mornings.....
I've never read things like He wrote this Morning, as this borders on "Tinfoil", and Karl isn't one of those type of People...



So without further ado, I present to you dear Fellow Joe 6 Packs, the "Market Ticker"...



http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s75/crossthread42/dow-crash-tuesday_serendipityThumb.jpg

Time is up, CONgress and America


This is not good.

But the worst news is not in the stock market. It is in fact in some of the other indicators in the market which were indicating potential capital flight, along with still-extreme levels of stress.

I must caution everyone - if you are not prepared for six months to two years of unemployment, you need to be. If you are dependent on credit to survive (that is, if you couldn't make it without your credit cards) you need to fix that now.

Like today now.

Several times I have said "raise cash, get out of debt, be prepared."

I must reiterate this advice and emphasize it, as we may see a bond market dislocation and concurrent stock market crash at any time, without warning. It could be as early as today, in fact.

No, what happened the last three days isn't a crash, although it has now hit my full "bear market" target - 1070 - and in fact exceeded it.

Unfortunately what happened the last three days forces me to reset that target to the 2003 lows, and perhaps as low as four hundred on the S&P 500, 4000 on the DOW.

Needless to say if that happens it will be on the back of an economic catastrophe of a scale similar to the 1930s.

Bernanke's latest load of crap with an "SIV" for commercial paper is just another example of "more of the same" stupidity.

Bernanke and Paulson need to be indicted and jailed for criminal negligence (at best) and put in the stocks where the people can serve up some rotten tomatoes.

This evening we were "treated" to both political candidates shooting their mouths off on matters economic, but saying nothing of substance. Neither candidate was willing to admit the truth - that this "bailout" hadn't worked, that in fact the market had crashed by 15% since it was voted on, and that there is a zero chance of it having any positive impact on one American household.

But no, not even the "moderator" was willing to ask those tough questions, nor was anyone present.

These "debates" are a sham, a fraud and a gigantic waste of time.

Never mind that McCain embarrassed himself by claiming to be a "maverick" and "against pork", when he had just gotten done voting for over $150 billion of it in the Bailout Bill - pork that was not present in the original house version.

Was that claim of being "against pork" good for a "no" vote? Nope. He voted yes, as did Obama.

To those who dismissed the six petitions (you can go over to http://supportedthebailout.org and see the old ones) over the last year, how do you feel about it now?

To those who said that "subprime was contained", how contained is it now?

To those who said that deterioration in consumer credit wasn't going to be a big deal, would you like to revisit that belief?

To those who said that "the nation would not have a recession", do you have any regrets, apologies, or perhaps an outright retraction?

To those who told people to buy buy buy all the way down, how do you feel now that they've lost 30% of their money?

To those politicians from both parties who voted for the ESSA on the claim that it would "stabilize markets", can you show me where it has been, in fact, stabilized? If this is "stable" I'm somewhat curious as to your definition of "unstable".

There is chatter circulating, apparently, that "global equity markets will be closed after the emergency G7 meeting this weekend." That ought to induce confidence - just ask the Russians or Indonesians, both of whom have tried this and it has resulted in an instantaneous crash when they reopened (the Indonesian market was just closed AGAIN this evening, after literally imploding - down by more than 10% - within an hour of starting to trade.)

This is no longer a US problem, but the United States continues to refuse to lead. We continue to "trust" the idiot savants Bernanke and Paulson, both of whom have sung the same song since this crisis began more than a year ago, have been wrong 100% of the time, and yet have found an ear in Congress repeatedly willing to listen to and follow their insanity.

By allowing this action and indeed following the advice of these two each and every one of the 535 members of that body has taken unto themselves the responsibility for the calamity that now faces American investors and the public, as our economic system literally "folds back" and consumes itself. Americans will not be able to retire and have no economic security, and now are losing their jobs in increasing numbers. This will continue.

For more than a year I have tried to get the attention of Congress with petitions, phone calls and faxes. I have been ignored, as have others who have been consistently right in our expectations and beliefs, including "Mish" Shedlock, Nouriel Roubini, Charles Hugh Smith and others. Over 200 degreed economists urged that the "Bailout Bill" not be passed as submitted, including two Nobel Lauretes; all were ignored.

The people of this nation have sat on their hands and watched American Idol, now turning into the NFL, while lapping up the slop from Paulson, Bernanke and Bush about how the "economy is fundamentally strong", instead of showing up in Washington DC to protest or flooding the fax and phone lines demanding that Congress act to reign in the fraudsters.

Let me know how "fundamentally strong" the economy is when you're walking the unemployment line and waiting for your turn at the soup kitchen for something to eat.

Entitlements? Forget 'em. They're gone. Social Security? Medicare? Done. Not today, but in the not-distant future. China, having gotten its money from the $700 billion "bailout", will ditch our Treasuries and refuse to buy more, as they will no more need to sterilize export dollars as our economy collapses. We in turn will be left to twist.

We deserve it, because we could have (but didn't) stand up to their demands that we cover a private dispute instead of handing over $700 billion we don't have. When (not if) the foreign flow of funds inward disappears due to the lack of need for these nations to recycle dollars, we will suddenly find that we have a nearly $800 billion a year hole in our federal budget - a hole that can only be filled by chopping Social Security, Medicare and the Military. Congratulations Congress (and America in general); you didn't really think you'd get away with that, did you?

George W. Bush will go down in history as the President who held the office while we drove our nation's financial system off the cliff, laughing all the while about flipping houses. And despite his protests to the contrary, the history books will record that it was his administration that removed the 12:1 leverage limits, sued New York to prevent them from clamping down on predatory lending, and willfully stuck its head in the sand while Bear Stearns prepared to blow up, never mind ignoring the problem after Bear detonated in February.

Henry Paulson will go down in history as the Treasury Secretary who sold out our nation to the Chinese and London Bankers, then fled the country with $500 million he "earned" creating and selling the very credit instruments that later blew up and sunk the nation.

The members of the House Financial Services Committee, the Senate Banking Committee and the Joint Economic Committee will each have special places reserved in the history books for refusing to deal with Ben Bernanke's raw power grab after Bear Stearns, an act that will ultimately be judged to be the single most important element of the crisis, as it forever put the market in a mood to expect "rule changes" at any time, precipitously damaging trust and liquidity.

The "no short" rule will ultimately be cited as the reason that the market crashed, being that there were no shorts to cover and thus hundreds of stocks, on that fateful day, went "no bid" and had their prices collapse to zero - all at once.

Oil will collapse in price to $20/bbl. Unfortunately nobody will have any money to buy gasoline, or a car, so it won't matter. As in The Depression millions of automobiles will be scrapped after being abandoned by their owners for lack of insurance and registration fee money. Cheap scooters will become the dominant form of transportation for those with jobs, as they will be all most people can afford.

As credit collapses distribution of food and other essentials will break down. Unable to access credit, trucking companies will be unable to get goods to market. The current distribution system for food requires travel of over 500 miles from production to consumption; this is untenable in a market where stable credit is unavailable. Food distribution will be severely impacted and in some areas may break down below critical levels.

Unemployment will reach 25% within two years. Median income will fall by 30% nationally. Foreclosures will reach 20 million homes. The government will step in with HOLC-style remediation but it won't matter - the unemployed won't be able to pay irrespective of the price.

Cont..........

LEADDRAFT
10-08-2008, 12:59 PM
House prices will fall to well under $100,000 nationally on a median basis but with lending all but non-existent you'll need 50% down. A few people will make out like bandits near the bottom, being able to buy up homes for $10,000 each in blocks of 10 at a time - for cash. 60% of America will be renters; nearly half of all homeowners will ultimately lose their homes to foreclosure.

Civil unrest will break out in major cities when incomes fall but the cost of food and essential services fail to come down materially, leaving millions of Americans hungry, broke and homeless. Unlike in the 1930s America will not quietly stand in soup lines - instead they will riot, loot and burn. The National Guard will be called up but will find it impossible to exert meaningful control without shutting down all commerce in the affected areas. The decision will be made to cordon off the cities and deny entry to anyone who does not live in that specific neighborhood, essentially shutting down commercial activity. GDP will fall by 30%.

The S&P 500 will fall to 150 and flatline, a 90% loss. CNBC and Bloomberg will cease broadcasting. Volume will fall to 10% of former levels.

Bleak outlook?

Yep.

Quite possible?

Yep.

Can it be stopped?

Yes, but not for much longer.

The markets are perilously close to a tipping point where they will collapse, after which all of the above will come to pass, and Congressional action (or inaction) will be irrelevant.

Congress will then have to face the people, as will President Bush and his Cabinet, and may God have mercy on our Republican form of government, because history shows that when government mismanages things to this degree and refuses to respond to the will of the people, a "messiah" generally appears with a "solution" - but there will be "compromises."

Like your freedom.

To fix the problem trust must be restored. To restore trust you must stop the lying, expose the liars, prosecute and jail them all, and stop changing the rules in the middle of the game.

This must happen now. Today. Immediately. Not tomorrow, not next week, not after a series of hearings.

Right now.

Market participants must be able to know that when they engage in a transaction it will be transparent, handled fairly, and their rights will be protected.

Our politicians must stop demanding the impossible - that home prices "levitate." House prices cannot be maintained at more than 3x incomes - it simply can't be done. We must encourage home prices to contract to sustainable, affordable levels quickly and efficiently.

Mortgages must return to 30 year fixed notes, 20% down, no more than 36% DTI. No government-linked paper in any GSE may issue outside these guidelines. We must reliquify the mortgage market, and this is the only way to do it - by writing only sustainable mortgages.

Strong consumer protection laws must be written that bar negative balance auto and home loans. The practice of "rolling over" an old car loan into a new one, producing an instant 20% or more deficiency against the vehicles value, must end.

Usury laws must be re-imposed, limiting credit card and other consumer loan interest to no more than a reasonable spread over funding costs. Yes, this will limit credit to less-worthy borrowers. So be it. Unbridled credit got us here, and we must prevent it from happening again.

The excess, unsustainable debt in the system must be defaulted. Whether held by corporations or individuals, it must be purged from the system. Those firms and individuals that are bankrupt must be so declared and their assets liquidated, so they can start over and the market can clear.

People will say that what I ask is unreasonable, unable to be achieved, or "needs study."

You're free to study all you want, but if these actions are not taken immediately, right now, today, the above forecast will come to fruition.

You are seeing the global credit markets unravel in front of your eyes, and it is happening precisely because the fraud, avarice and outright theft has gone unpunished and left in place to siphon off wealth from the average American for more than 20 years, and our President, in that environment, went on national television and threatened the world with a global Depression unless his Treasury Secretary got a $700 billion blank check.

The markets, correctly perceiving there was a problem, did exactly what they did when this same gambit was run during the Fannie and Freddie debacle - they called the bluff.

The check is now on the table and we have but two choices - either pay it or suffer the consequences.

surfsidesativa
10-08-2008, 01:23 PM
George W. Bush will go down in history as the President who held the office while we drove our nation's financial system off the cliff, laughing all the while about flipping houses. And despite his protests to the contrary, the history books will record that it was his administration that removed the 12:1 leverage limits, sued New York to prevent them from clamping down on predatory lending, and willfully stuck its head in the sand while Bear Stearns prepared to blow up, never mind ignoring the problem after Bear detonated in February.

Henry Paulson will go down in history as the Treasury Secretary who sold out our nation to the Chinese and London Bankers, then fled the country with $500 million he "earned" creating and selling the very credit instruments that later blew up and sunk the nation.

We were heading here at a slow crawl and then these guys slammed it into 5th and hauled ass. It's all about wealth distribution.

JeepMike
10-09-2008, 12:09 PM
All I am reading is some gloom and doom stuff here... Yes there is some truth as to what your saying, but if your living within in your means now, it will be endurable and things will bounce back.

Unemployment 25%??!!?? The highest unemployment during the Great Depression was I think 15.9% in 1931.

I highly doubt that we are going to slip into the stoneage; sure things will be tough, but we aren't going to all keel over and die. Glass is half full people!

Most of this thread seems to be sensationalism with an almost "Revelations" undertone.

Just my .02

Mark G
10-09-2008, 12:21 PM
All I am reading is some gloom and doom stuff here... Yes there is some truth as to what your saying, but if your living within in your means now, it will be endurable and things will bounce back.

Unemployment 25%??!!?? The highest unemployment during the Great Depression was I think 15.9% in 1931.

I highly doubt that we are going to slip into the stoneage; sure things will be tough, but we aren't going to all keel over and die. Glass is half full people!

Most of this thread seems to be sensationalism with an almost "Revelations" undertone.

Just my .02

Pretty much my thoughts- the only thing missing was "the sky is falling" :D

And a few folks carrying around those signs from the 60's--- predicting the world is coming to an end !!

Kenmefish
10-09-2008, 12:54 PM
Yes if enought people beleave it and preach it, it makes it more likely to happen. Myself, I am going to hatteras fishing while I still have the money to do it.

sand flea
10-09-2008, 08:45 PM
This too shall pass. While we're definitely in for a rough ride, if you live within your means and aren't in debt up to your eyeballs you'll be fine.

All this drama about how we're going to be fending off the zombies with our shotguns is nothing but fearmongering.

sprtsracer
10-09-2008, 10:05 PM
OK Guys, I'll admit it...I'm lucky!!! I retired from the Army, so what I have coming in is what I have coming in. It is not dependant on what the stock market does or what the interest rates do. In fact, I just found out today that effective on 1 Jan, I'm getting a pay raise. I don't say this to rub it in anyone's face, I only say this to let you know where I am on this. I am better off than most of you. I also will not apologize for it because I KNOW I earned it after 32 years and got shot at, $hit at, etc. Thank God!!! I do feel for the rest of you who have to depend on 401K's, etc...because you are getting SCREWED!!! Not only that, but in 9 months, I'll get Social Security on top of my retirement. You guys are paying for it (and so have I over the years), I REALLY think what you need to do is write your Congressman. your Senator, the White House, your City Councilman. your Dog Catcher, I don't give a damn!!! Voice your displeasure!!! The next thing you have to do is VOTE!!! Now, I don't think there is any doubt on here about who I support, which is the McCain/Palin ticket, but what I am telling you is that I DON'T GIVE A DAMN who you support...you'd better VOTE!!! It's high time we let these idiots know that we hired them, and we can fire them also!!!

Jigmaster
10-09-2008, 10:17 PM
All I am reading is some gloom and doom stuff here... Yes there is some truth as to what your saying, but if your living within in your means now, it will be endurable and things will bounce back.

Unemployment 25%??!!?? The highest unemployment during the Great Depression was I think 15.9% in 1931.

I highly doubt that we are going to slip into the stoneage; sure things will be tough, but we aren't going to all keel over and die. Glass is half full people!

Most of this thread seems to be sensationalism with an almost "Revelations" undertone.

Just my .02


Considerably Higher...
Just factor the 30million plus illegal’s that migrated here the past ten years During the building Construction boon.

Building has all but ceased -those people are still here and without those jobs ..the ones the average fat American was unwilling to do- they did.

Desperate American may now be willing to take a lesser Job for less Pay.

Is it possible these are the People who will be doing the Pillaging, Robbing and Burning and general Lawlessness.

Or will things get so bad here they will be more than willing to go back to their home Country?

Our Population back in 1931 was only 124 Million people,
Today we are at 350 Million plus, nearly triple the people however we produce half the crops we did then, if it comes down to it we could not sustain if we needed to.

Those people were not here in the 30's we also had higher standards and more stringent process concerning Citizenship and immunizations. TB and STD's have run amuck in our country in recent years.

The time is now!!! most of the people born in the past 20 plus years are pretty much Clueless and basically walk around in a fog. They think everything was here/ God or Santa provided or maybe Grows on Trees Tv,MTV,Food,Freedom,Credit cards,Computers,Cars,Democracy,Paris Hilton,Coach Bags, Cell phones,Ipods,Reality shows which are just a deeper illusion of reality however emotionally based -this is frigging sad.

It will be mass Depression, Prozac and Zoloft will become readily available for those of us who are not already walking around in a Fog. Thorazine or pre frontal lobotomy's will be administered to certain radical P&S posters (you know who you are) just so we can cope. Apparently those levels have not yet reached effective levels in our Fish.
We will become the Zombies Sand Flea was speaking of.


(I wondered why there was a Walgreen or CVS on every Block) someone was thinking of the future.

Those of us who have seen tougher times can probably survive its Time to wake up America.

Mark G
10-09-2008, 10:26 PM
It's high time we let these idiots know that we hired them, and we can fire them also!!!

If I could definitely place a "no" vote I'd be all over it. Voting for "someone else" doesn't amount to the same thing. Perhaps it's time to change the rules, being able to vote "against" someone would likely bring more people to the polls than having to pick a "yes" vote between individuals. Especially if your trying to vote a displeasure over the bailout and BOTH candidates supported it.

Until I can vote "NO" I won't be voting yes for anyone this November.

And yes- the only way to effectively fire anyone is to allow voting NO for any or all candidates. (If I don't like any of the alternatives, I should be allowed to vote NO on all alternatives).

drawinout
10-09-2008, 10:30 PM
My father and mother are in the same boat as you sprtsracer. They're both retired. My father is retired military and civil service. My mother is a retired school teacher. Neither one will have to depend on a 401k plan. I keep hearing about those that are close to retirement age already losing up to 40% of their retirement, and that kills me!! As far as social security is concerned, I was under the impression that money had been mistreated as well. I'm still in my mid-twenties, so retirement is WAY off for me, but it's a shame what's happening none the less.

inshoreangler95
10-09-2008, 10:37 PM
Yes, i totally Agree Surf Cat; if i, as an individual cannot choose the yes and no's of the alternatives that are at hand instead of choosing a bag full random candies then i shall not vote! If for example i cannot vote for the bailout, gay marriage, taxes, mortgages, and all of that stuff as an individual instead of choosing two people in between which i might have some disagreements between then i simply do not see how i am choosing what I think is best for this country!

Malakas07
10-09-2008, 10:55 PM
If I could definitely place a "no" vote I'd be all over it. Voting for "someone else" doesn't amount to the same thing. Perhaps it's time to change the rules, being able to vote "against" someone would likely bring more people to the polls than having to pick a "yes" vote between individuals. Especially if your trying to vote a displeasure over the bailout and BOTH candidates supported it.

Until I can vote "NO" I won't be voting yes for anyone this November.

Thank you Surf Cat you pretty summed up what I believe and the direction I feel we are headed.

Both canidates voted for this bailout. To me it's McShame and his sellout tactics to earn votes. Or NOBAMA and his subtle socialistic values.

I'm heading to the polls in November to either vote none of the above or to write someone in. This country once belonged to the people it's time that we have it back. The approval of the bailout is a slap in the face to Americans everywhere and a sign that we have no control over OUR country. Change will come when people wake up and take back the freedoms that are slowly being taken away right from under our noses.

TimKan7719
10-09-2008, 10:58 PM
I am Writing in Jesus, cause some of the morals and values that I believe in have deminished in this country and I think we all could benifit of a little more Jesus in our lives.

fishedn
10-10-2008, 01:46 AM
forget the presidential vote, it is of little importance, vote to oust every incumbant if you want real change.

wolfva
10-10-2008, 01:49 AM
<-----wondering why Timkan is voting for a Mexican for pres.....


<------ducking and hiding after that last joke

TimKan7719
10-10-2008, 10:30 AM
<-----wondering why Timkan is voting for a Mexican for pres.....


<------ducking and hiding after that last joke

Because I am Moving to Mexico after I retire in 8 years I figure that after 8 years of a mexican President the country down there will be prity much empty and I can put a house on the pacific and a house on the Gulf and when the weather gets to bad at one place I just move to the other house. Plus it will be great to have to house so I can also have a place to go to when the Wife upsets me.
Vote Jesus in 08,
Tim Kan

P.S. P&S members will be welcome at my house we can drink beer, mojitos and and fish till our arms fall off. Just no talk of Politics, economics, or Love or you will be used for bait.

jcreamer
10-10-2008, 05:21 PM
OK Guys, I'll admit it...I'm lucky!!! I retired from the Army, so what I have coming in is what I have coming in. It is not dependant on what the stock market does or what the interest rates do. In fact, I just found out today that effective on 1 Jan, I'm getting a pay raise. I don't say this to rub it in anyone's face, I only say this to let you know where I am on this. I am better off than most of you. I also will not apologize for it because I KNOW I earned it after 32 years and got shot at, $hit at, etc. Thank God!!! I do feel for the rest of you who have to depend on 401K's, etc...because you are getting SCREWED!!! Not only that, but in 9 months, I'll get Social Security on top of my retirement. You guys are paying for it (and so have I over the years), I REALLY think what you need to do is write your Congressman. your Senator, the White House, your City Councilman. your Dog Catcher, I don't give a damn!!! Voice your displeasure!!! The next thing you have to do is VOTE!!! Now, I don't think there is any doubt on here about who I support, which is the McCain/Palin ticket, but what I am telling you is that I DON'T GIVE A DAMN who you support...you'd better VOTE!!! It's high time we let these idiots know that we hired them, and we can fire them also!!!

I am also retired military, wife and I do get social security, If push comes to shove we could get by. I work at another job Northrop Grumman full time (this paycheck goes to the house payment) I do not depend on 401k and have very little stock (some in wally world) I have a neighbor who works for a real estate company in DC and her last two paychecks are no good as the company does not have the m oney to pay for them. Her only two sons are serving in IRAQ. We help with yardwork and whatever we can but as you said VOTE we have to let these fat cats know who they are actually working for.

J_Lannon
10-10-2008, 06:37 PM
OK Guys, I'll admit it...I'm lucky!!! I retired from the Army, so what I have coming in is what I have coming in. It is not dependant on what the stock market does or what the interest rates do. In fact, I just found out today that effective on 1 Jan, I'm getting a pay raise. I don't say this to rub it in anyone's face, I only say this to let you know where I am on this. I am better off than most of you. I also will not apologize for it because I KNOW I earned it after 32 years and got shot at, $hit at, etc. Thank God!!! I do feel for the rest of you who have to depend on 401K's, etc...because you are getting SCREWED!!! Not only that, but in 9 months, I'll get Social Security on top of my retirement. You guys are paying for it (and so have I over the years), I REALLY think what you need to do is write your Congressman. your Senator, the White House, your City Councilman. your Dog Catcher, I don't give a damn!!! Voice your displeasure!!! The next thing you have to do is VOTE!!! Now, I don't think there is any doubt on here about who I support, which is the McCain/Palin ticket, but what I am telling you is that I DON'T GIVE A DAMN who you support...you'd better VOTE!!! It's high time we let these idiots know that we hired them, and we can fire them also!!!

All those years away from home are paying off. You deserve every freaking penny of it!

LEADDRAFT
10-10-2008, 07:11 PM
I think there is something everyone is forgetting..
THINK.... For one Moment....
How Many Large to small business rely on credit to meet PAYROLLS, purchased raw goods Materials...
Shipping/Transportation Co.s to fuel the Trucks & Ships...
We are facing a global DEPRESSION and the cut-off of essential goods and services in this nation if we do not stop this lunacy immediately.

Please understand - the TRUCKER who has a full load of food headed for your grocer REQUIRES commercial credit in order to fill his truck with diesel.

The local GAS STATION owner REQUIRES commercial credit to fill his underground storage tank.

The local CAR DEALER REQUIRES commercial credit to have cars - and parts - in his dealership. No credit, no car - and no car repairs.

The manufacturer over in China REQUIRES commercial credit (letters of credit from the buyer's bank) to be able to ship those goods to America, where you can buy them. If the bank over there won't take the LOC from the bank over here, suddenly you have no tires, DVDs and other similar products to buy.

IF THESE MARKETS DO NOT IMMEDIATELY UNFREEZE THE CONSEQUENCE WILL BE THAT FOOD AND FUEL, ALONG WITH ALL OTHER MANNER OF CONSUMER PRODUCTS, MAY NOT FLOW TO YOUR GROCERY STORE AND GAS STATION.

We as a Nation are already seeing reports from the Shipping Industry not being able to unload grain at Dockside, due to NO LOC's....
What about that Farmer in the "Bread Basket" of America?
If He CANNOT get a Line Of Credit to plant/fertilize the crops, fuel to plant them, are We Not... --> insert here<-----
Right now the BANKS WILL NOT even Lend to each other, even if One has US Treasuries up as Collateral!
If the Banks are not lending to each other, Will they Lend Commercial Lines of Credit? I think not... HENCE, this is the Basis of the Original Post above...

Again THINK Folks...
If your Debit/Credit card stopped working tomorrow, HOW LONG could you and your Family surive?

surfsidesativa
10-10-2008, 07:47 PM
Wow lead, I thought I was wearing a big ol' tin foil hat (ask me about how dick cheney ruined our status as a world super-power).

I know the bail-out was unpopular but can't we just wait and see how it works once we do pump that $$$ back into the system?

J_Lannon
10-10-2008, 08:21 PM
I think there is something everyone is forgetting..
THINK.... For one Moment....
How Many Large to small business rely on credit to meet PAYROLLS, purchased raw goods Materials...
Shipping/Transportation Co.s to fuel the Trucks & Ships...
We are facing a global DEPRESSION and the cut-off of essential goods and services in this nation if we do not stop this lunacy immediately.

Please understand - the TRUCKER who has a full load of food headed for your grocer REQUIRES commercial credit in order to fill his truck with diesel.

The local GAS STATION owner REQUIRES commercial credit to fill his underground storage tank.

The local CAR DEALER REQUIRES commercial credit to have cars - and parts - in his dealership. No credit, no car - and no car repairs.

The manufacturer over in China REQUIRES commercial credit (letters of credit from the buyer's bank) to be able to ship those goods to America, where you can buy them. If the bank over there won't take the LOC from the bank over here, suddenly you have no tires, DVDs and other similar products to buy.

IF THESE MARKETS DO NOT IMMEDIATELY UNFREEZE THE CONSEQUENCE WILL BE THAT FOOD AND FUEL, ALONG WITH ALL OTHER MANNER OF CONSUMER PRODUCTS, MAY NOT FLOW TO YOUR GROCERY STORE AND GAS STATION.

We as a Nation are already seeing reports from the Shipping Industry not being able to unload grain at Dockside, due to NO LOC's....
What about that Farmer in the "Bread Basket" of America?
If He CANNOT get a Line Of Credit to plant/fertilize the crops, fuel to plant them, are We Not... --> insert here<-----
Right now the BANKS WILL NOT even Lend to each other, even if One has US Treasuries up as Collateral!
If the Banks are not lending to each other, Will they Lend Commercial Lines of Credit? I think not... HENCE, this is the Basis of the Original Post above...

Again THINK Folks...
If your Debit/Credit card stopped working tomorrow, HOW LONG could you and your Family surive?



Excellent point...................there are truckers stuck out there right now with fuel cards that do not work.

surfsidesativa
10-11-2008, 09:47 AM
My buddy who is in the ARMY just had to trade his guitar for gas in Georgia. The Government of Georgia no longer recognizes the US dollar as a form of currency. Not even ex-russian/quasi-satellite countries whos behinds we're trying to save have faith in our economy.

jcreamer
10-11-2008, 11:40 AM
All the time that I as in the service I encountered a log of places that would not accept U.S. currancy.
A lot of guys here will remember using """MPC""