How many pounds of drag?

[kgpcr]

Help me out here. I am looking at a Shimano Baitrunner. it has 15lbs of drag. in the real world of fishing what does that really mean? for instance when you are fighting a 40lb fish what is your drag set at? I am thinking of buying this reel for fishing king salmon in Alaska and wondering if 15lbs is enough. this board has a ton of experts who actually know what that translates into in fish fighting ability. Thanks again for all your help!!

[kingfisherman23]

I feel like the available reel drag and the weight of the fish are only indirectly related, if at all.

As a general rule your drag should be set at 1/3 the breaking strength of the line you are fishing. Eg, if you are using 15# main line, your reel should be set to exert 3# of drag pressure.

I would love for someone to chime in with a relationshi between fish weight and line test, since I think it may be a bit more complicated than just weight of fish = line test.

My physics professor, who happens to be an avid outdoorsman, has a rather complicated equation that gives the stress on line based on test, fish pull strength, yds of line out, rod length, guide type and drag setting. It takes four pages of work and is impractical for normal situations. I can try and post it up if there is some interest but it isn't going up roght now :p:p

Evan

[fisher51]

I feel the kingfisherman is right about 1/3 of line test, however the test of line to use has to do with the type of fish you are catching and the area you are fishing. If you have open deep water you can use lighter line, some fish fight much harder than others. I grew up in S. Fla. and fish both salt and fresh water I think most saltwater fish are almost twice as strong as fresh. It`s best to check the local tackle shops in the area you are fishing and I like to support the small local shops if they are helpful... see ya ...good luck...:)

[Lip Ripper]

rod length has alot to do with it as well. on a 12 foot rod 7lb of drag is alot. think of putting a 7lb weight on the tip of your rod and then picking it up off the ground. then think of putting a 7lb weight on a 5ft boat rod and lifting it(its easy) i think alot of people would be surprised on their heavers how little drag they are actually putting on a fish.

[John81]

rod length has alot to do with it as well. on a 12 foot rod 7lb of drag is alot. think of putting a 7lb weight on the tip of your rod and then picking it up off the ground. then think of putting a 7lb weight on a 5ft boat rod and lifting it(its easy) i think alot of people would be surprised on their heavers how little drag they are actually putting on a fish.

a dead lift is nothing compared to the fishable drag a rod can hold. I have rods that can lift 30lbs off the ground but can noway near handle 30lbs of drag. Dead lifts are mostly for getting an idea of how strong the blank/rod is

[SaltSlinger]

So how do you properly measure drag - say - on 15 lb test line? Do you lift a 5 lb weight off the floor or use a scale or something to see if you are exerting 5 lbs of "pull"...

[Lip Ripper]

i took my 12ft om heavy,penn 525, and 17lb tri+, ran the line through the guides and then about 15ft out to a scale that is very accurate. i then tightened the drag down and pulled until i thought the pole was about to snap. the drag started to give a little line so now i felt i had put all the force on that setup that i could without the pole snapping. i went to check the scale (that saves the highest amount of weight put on it) if my memory serves me right, it was a whopping 7lbs.

[rattler]

DRAG. designed to tire the fish. not pick it up. having a wide range will give you more choices when fighting. you can catch 20# fish on 4# line. its the way you fight the fish. let him run and tire him out, then add drag to bring him in. fishing 101.

[fisher51]

Yea and when in doubt its best to have a lighter drag and use your finger to add drag while in the fight, its better to loose a little more line than snap the line, game over!!:cool:;)

[sprtsracer]

For me, MOST of the fun in fishing comes from actually fighting the fish. Hell, if all I wanted to do was drag one up, I'd toss out a handline hooked to a winch on a Jeep! There are lots of ways to do it, but they take away the "sport". I am still in awe of the guys that fly fish for sharks, and one of these days, I plan to master that, as well. I'm still trying to master conventionals and spinning gear first, however, and I may never get that accomplished. There's always something new to learn. I can tell you this...and I think I mentioned it on here before...but the most fun I ever had was catching a 35 lb. Bull Dolphin on 6 lb. test line with a small Mitchell light action spinning reel while trying to catch some bait in a "drift line". BTW...I've had a lot of fun fighting fish that I lost, as well. I chalked that up to the fact that he "bettered" me...but it was still fun, and I'm still ahead in the "win column".

[Puppy Mullet]

Before your first fish, its not a bad idea to hook onto something solid and back up, peeling some drag to simulate the fight.
Might want to do it every morning in Alaska.
Lucky dog you!!

[BentHook]

Evan post up your physics professor's results.
When we fish for grouper in Fla we use a 6/0 penn and lock the drag down,then take a hammer or channel locks and bump the drag a little more.
Under normal conditions we set the drag at 25% to 33% of the lines breaking strength.
One thing you didn't mention was how deep you'll be fishing.As the line leaves the spool the drag increases.A drag set at 6lbs on a full reel will be 9lbs at half full and 12lbs on a near empty spool.
Dress warm and in layers.

[inshoreangler95]

Thats what i do puppy mullet, my dad calls it virtual fishing! Its fun when you have nothing to do or are trying to imitate a fight a day or two before your big trip! As far as drag goes, there is no clear way to say what the best amount of pull would be, there are just too many factors! For example kingfisherman23's professors equation i believe would be right but you would not be able to apply it to all fishing. For example if off a pier, you could be applying the perfect amount of drag but thats not going to stop that fish from hitting structure! If in open water you could be having the perfect fight, when out of nowhere you get a big hammehead circling your fish! The best amount of drag is the one you feel most comfortable with at the time, if that fish is going to run into the rocks, you HAVE to either pin down the drag or risk lossing him! Personally i Love having a fish run andgive me an awesome fight but i also cannot stand losing fish and usually when i fish theres structure so i dont get the luxury that some of you boaters do of letting him run! I pin the drag on him not too much but enough to turn him around! Its hard to say how much pullage would be best in the middle of a fight concidering the fact that you have no clue most of the time how much that fish weighs and what species it is! :fishing:

[dsurf]

I feel like the available reel drag and the weight of the fish are only indirectly related, if at all.

As a general rule your drag should be set at 1/3 the breaking strength of the line you are fishing. Eg, if you are using 15# main line, your reel should be set to exert 3# of drag pressure.

I would love for someone to chime in with a relationshi between fish weight and line test, since I think it may be a bit more complicated than just weight of fish = line test.

My physics professor, who happens to be an avid outdoorsman, has a rather complicated equation that gives the stress on line based on test, fish pull strength, yds of line out, rod length, guide type and drag setting. It takes four pages of work and is impractical for normal situations. I can try and post it up if there is some interest but it isn't going up roght now :p:p

Evan

1/3 of line breaking strength sounds about right for the drag....but believe that would be 5lbs of drag for 15 lb line, not 3lbs.

[9 rock]

Help me out here. I am looking at a Shimano Baitrunner. it has 15lbs of drag. in the real world of fishing what does that really mean? for instance when you are fighting a 40lb fish what is your drag set at? I am thinking of buying this reel for fishing king salmon in Alaska and wondering if 15lbs is enough. this board has a ton of experts who actually know what that translates into in fish fighting ability. Thanks again for all your help!!

15lbs of drag I can not get over that
the new daiwa sealine bait runner has 33lbs of drag


9rock

[Oldmulletbreath]

More times than I can count I've seen big fish (Drum) hooked on Cape Point, the fish starts to peel line off their reel, they panic and tighten down on their drag and ping the bigest fish they have ever felt is gone because they didn't trust their equipment.

This works for me... make your cast, check your drag by making one wrap around your finger if you can pull it out without it hurting tighten it up a bit till it hurts.As stated before the drag pressure after a 125 cast is much greater than with a full spool,check the drag after the cast. I will NEVER tighten my drag with a fish hooked, if you start to see the bottom of your spool add a little thumb to the spool. Having a fish take line off of my reel is one of the best feelings there is.

[kingfisherman23]

but believe that would be 5lbs of drag for 15 lb line, not 3lbs.

Hahaha yeah. My mistake.


Working on getting the equation written into a I/O program that I can upload, but there are a HUGE amount of variables. :eek:

But for instance, we worked it using 30# mono (diameter, mass and density of BPS Tightline 30#), 100yds of line in the water and 25yds above the water, adjusted for angle (salt water, not fresh. density matters) and a fish moving sideways at 4 m/s (weight of the fish is irrelevant). The reel was set at 10# drag, and a 6/0 spool 3/4 full. The rod measured 5' from reel to tip, with roller guides factored in and the curve compensated for.

The effective drag on the fish came out to ~28#.

Direct strecth tension (tension that breaking strength measures) at the hook was ~25#

Tension in the line at the water's surface was around 19# ,adjusted for sideways shear.

Tension in the line at the rod tip was ~17#.

Tension of the line at the spool was 10# dead even, as there was no drag slippage.

That took us two days and three whiteboards. :eek:

Evan

[kingfisherman23]

Crap. I can't figure out how to erase this reply. The correction was irrelevant.

[Oldmulletbreath]

just testing something,sorry

[kingfisherman23]

OK, I got a basic version written into my computer but I can't get it to host online or transfer over email (the program is pretty big).

But if you post up line diameter, fish size & species, reel type, rod length and distance from fish to you, I can give you some general numbers.

Evan

[Clyde]

.5 mil braided line, grouper/snapper/amberjack, daiwa saltiga 30, 5'4" rod, 100-120 ft. This should be interesting. Start with 20# drag and go to maybe 40#, 5# increments will be fine.

[lil red jeep]

I used to have my drag set at about 135 pounds. Of course that was my ex wife!:D

[SmoothLures]

OK, I got a basic version written into my computer but I can't get it to host online or transfer over email (the program is pretty big).

But if you post up line diameter, fish size & species, reel type, rod length and distance from fish to you, I can give you some general numbers.

Evan

Upload it to rapidshare.com. Would like to see it.

[kingfisherman23]

Clyde,

Give me a day or two, I have to research and write in the formulas for braid's water resistance. Also, I need an approximate fish weight to estimate speed potential.

Smooth,

The problem with rapidshare is that my base program is pulling data out of four other physics modeling programs (the reason I got it working so quickly) that I don't have copyrights for. The solver won't run without these, and I can't upload them. :(

I'm not that great of a programmer, so I'm trying to find one of the comp sci majors to help me out and get the engines consolidated into one package.

Evan

[rattler]

Hahaha yeah. My mistake.


Working on getting the equation written into a I/O program that I can upload, but there are a HUGE amount of variables. :eek:

But for instance, we worked it using 30# mono (diameter, mass and density of BPS Tightline 30#), 100yds of line in the water and 25yds above the water, adjusted for angle (salt water, not fresh. density matters) and a fish moving sideways at 4 m/s (weight of the fish is irrelevant). The reel was set at 10# drag, and a 6/0 spool 3/4 full. The rod measured 5' from reel to tip, with roller guides factored in and the curve compensated for.

The effective drag on the fish came out to ~28#.

Direct strecth tension (tension that breaking strength measures) at the hook was ~25#

Tension in the line at the water's surface was around 19# ,adjusted for sideways shear.

Tension in the line at the rod tip was ~17#.

Tension of the line at the spool was 10# dead even, as there was no drag slippage.

That took us two days and three whiteboards. :eek:

Evan

waves and current also come into play? you need more white boards.

[kingfisherman23]

waves and current also come into play? you need more white boards.

As we were doing this (instead of studying shear, yay for a 2-person physics class) we decided that any waves less than 1.5' would have a negligible effect on the drag. We didn't factor in currents because yes, we would have needed a few more boards :p.

I called my prof yesterday and told him about what I'm working on here. He is psyched. He's working with the lab equipment to measure the braid resistance on Monday.

Evan

[rattler]

I agree that this can go to so many levels. in practical use, its a feel, not a science.

[jcarroll]

Your drag settings will be different depending on how much pressure you are able to put on the fish. these are both variables in which you must pick the best possible combination. Tackle failure should not be an option for anyone. All so remember that as spool capacity decreases, drag increases.

[seajay]

Hope this helps.
Setting the Drag on
a Lever Drag Fishing Reel


Properly setting the drag on a fishing reel is one of the most important things you can do to insure landing that fish of a lifetime.

On lever drag reels there are two drag settings we need to concern ourselves with, strike drag and full drag. The strike drag setting needs to be high enough to prevent backlash on the reel and below the point where the initial strike force or inertia exceeds the breaking strength of the line.

To properly set the strike drag, the conditions of the real fish strike should be simulated as closely as possible. There have been many discussions on the proper setting of strike drag on a fishing reel. For our discussion we will assume it should be somewhere in the range of 25% to 35% of the rated line breaking strength. (I.e., 30# line should have a strike drag setting in the range of 7-1/2 pounds to 10-1/2 pounds.)

The reel should be filled with fresh line within 1/8" of the shoulder of the spool flange. It shall be mounted on the rod it is to be used with and have the line running through the guides. The rod should be placed in a rod holder or held at a 45-degree angle. You will need a scale of the type that records the highest tension achieved, such as a Manley or Chatillion brass tube scale. Let out enough line so that any leaders, swivels or knots are beyond the guides and attach the scale to your line. Check to see the telltale marker on the scale is set to 0 pounds.

Pull down and away from the rod as quickly as you can to simulate the action of a striking fish.

Read the scale and adjust the drag on the reel according to the manufacturer’s directions. Reset the scale and re-test using the same technique to check the new setting. Continue this process until the desired setting (25% to 35% of rated line breaking strength) is reached.

Full drag will be set in the same manner as the strike drag was described

The full drag setting on the reel is usually set at no more the 50% of rated line breaking strength. (I.e., 30# line should have a full drag setting in the range of 15 pounds.)

Full drag should only be used to put additional pressure on a tired or mostly subdued fish. If you do use the full drag position and the fish suddenly decides to make a run quickly return the drag to the strike position to prevent a break off.

[Rockfish1]

Help me out here. I am looking at a Shimano Baitrunner. it has 15lbs of drag. in the real world of fishing what does that really mean? for instance when you are fighting a 40lb fish what is your drag set at? I am thinking of buying this reel for fishing king salmon in Alaska and wondering if 15lbs is enough. this board has a ton of experts who actually know what that translates into in fish fighting ability. Thanks again for all your help!!


15# of drag will be plenty for your salmon fishing... have at it and have fun... :cool:

[kingfisherman23]

OK!

Just got back the water resistance figures for braid and after writing them into the models I have put in Clyde's figures.

Should have the data later this afternoon, and I will try to put them in a spreadsheet for posting tonight.

Evan