Baitcaster vs Spinning

[orlandochuck]

Baitcaster vs Spinning reel for the surf......
What say you?

[kingfisherman23]

If by baitcaster you mean non-levelwind conventional, then that one for the most part.

For chunking bait way out there conventionals are my go-to, but I'd take spinning for throwing lures. Also I'd probably be willing to trade my conventional heavers for Basia spinning setups.

Evan

[SmoothLures]

It depends on what you're targeting. Fishing for table fish on bottom rigs, spinning. No backlashes, distance is generally better with lighter weights. For drum or fishing big cut baits, go conventional.

[Drumdum]

Conventional is when I make a cast,stand there and hold the rod,set it in a spike,or boat rod holder with bait and fishfinder rig.. Baitfishing a wreck,or sometimes when jigging wrecks.. Or trolling in the boat,pinrigging or drumming off the planks..

Spinners for sightcasting from the boat,at times wreckfishing with jigs,casting from the beach for trout,pups,spainish,bluefish,stripers,ect... Great for pompano fishing or food fishing from the surf..

[sprtsracer]

I used to be a "baitcaster fanatic" when it came to casting farther with bigger weights and for bottom fishing for larger fish. Now, with the advent of improved spinning reels, especially those with some "monster drags"...ala FinNor and others, as well as the "baitrunner" features, I'm starting to change over to more spinning. I will, however, still use the conventionals for the head-boats and also still use my Torque 100, simply because I like it so much!:D

[Sgt_Slough]

Ooooooohhhhh . . . wintertime fun thread!

My favorite discussion http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/party/party-smiley-027.gif

I will say first that there are some techniques / tactics when a conventional gets the nod (livelining mullet/bunker/eels off a jetty comes to mind) but I am an advocate for the supremacy of spinning tackle for open beach fishing; . . . The stipulation being, I'm not talking about a Penn 7500SS and Ugly Stik. (NTTIAWWT)

Modern, surf engineered spinners can do everything conventionals do from the beach and if you are willing to spend a few more bucks on upper tier equipment you can move into a zone of casting distance, drag performance, fish fighting ability and tackle strength only dreamed about by anyone surfcasting using any equipment just a few years ago.

Plainly stated my position is that modern spinning tackle opens a door for fishermen of all talent and experience levels to a level of performance and more importantly, day in day out fishing consistency that conventional tackle just does not offer.

Nothing against the guys willing to invest the time and pounds of mono to realize high performance consistently with revolving spools but I got better things to do. :fishing:

Ok, let it begin . . . http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/aktion/action-smiley-077.gif

[Tommy]

Here we go again.... lol

I like chevy's...

:D:D:D:D

[sprtsracer]

Here we go again.... lol

I like chevy's...

:D:D:D:D

Yup...GM all the way! Too bad GM doesn't make fishing reels...maybe they wouldn't be in so much financial trouble now! Also, we could finance our equipment through GMAC:D

[basstardo]

Here we go again.... lol

I like chevy's...

:D:D:D:D

Well, I'm a Ford man Tommy, but the real question is...mono or braid!? :cool:

[bloodworm]

LOL! this is gonna be a great debate:D:popcorn:
its like the mono braid question

[sand flea]

Oh God, it's gonna' be a loooong winter...

I'll leave the pros and cons to everyone else, but has anyone else noticed the geographic divide on equipment? Down south most seem to use conventionals, while up north spinners dominate.

[chris storrs]

sgt slough......spinners suck

kidding

[Cerberus]

Oh God, it's gonna' be a loooong winter...

I'll leave the pros and cons to everyone else, but has anyone else noticed the geographic divide on equipment? Down south most seem to use conventionals, while up north spinners dominate.

Among those who post here on P&S, true. On the beach, not so much.

I see more conventionals in the hands of "serious" fishermen but it seems nearly everyone else uses spinners. Why? :rolleyes:

1) Lots of light tackle freshwater opportunties make spinning gear popular as dual use set-ups, throwing lighter lures and bait.

2) Lots of casual fishermen who don't want or need to learn conventionals and lots of decent, cheap spinning tackle to fill their need.

3) Too many Damn Yankees coming down with their spinning gear and crowding the beaches! ;)

[AbuMike]

Toyota's...you know that JP stuff rules..:D

[Tommy]

Oh God, it's gonna' be a loooong winter...

I'll leave the pros and cons to everyone else, but has anyone else noticed the geographic divide on equipment? Down south most seem to use conventionals, while up north spinners dominate.

Ford vs Chevy

Spinner vs Casting

Mason vs Dixon

This thread has potential..... :D:D:D

:fishing:

[uncdub13]

I'll leave the pros and cons to everyone else, but has anyone else noticed the geographic divide on equipment? Down south most seem to use conventionals, while up north spinners dominate.

Well I dont know about spinners vs conventionals, but the South is better than the North. Yeeehaw!!

;)

[medicdav66]

I heartily agree with uncdub--except he pulls for UNC!!

[big brother]

Oh No,
Now the People's Republic of Chapel Hill is involved, next the SELC is gonna sue someone to restrict the parts of the beach that can be fished with spinners or conventionals. LOL
charlie

[9 rock]

when was the last time a spinning reel won a long distance contest? with out pumping the rod which reel has more cranking power ? in the 20-30 lb class which reel is heavier?
when you lose 50 yds of line off the spool which reel is affected more? which reel does the line last longer on?

I use spinning for repeated casting . conventional for surf 4-8 n bait


9rock

[kingfisherman23]

9rock,

Spinners aren't allowed in most casting competitions. Some months ago someone posted up a video of a specialized, engineered-for-distance spinnier capable of hitting tournament distance.


For generalized long-distance fishing the Daiwa Basia is the crown jewel reel.

In the late 60's and mid 70's, Mitchell worked to make a tournament casting spinner, but the idea never caught on and the development was canceled in 1978. This is what they came up with in 1963.

http://users.skynet.be/mitchell-collectors.org/Images_Tournament.1/Mitchell%20Dist.2nd%20model.1.jpg

How badass does that thing look?

Edit:
Here are pics of the distance-only spinner. I found them in a thread on Stripers Online about this same topic.

http://www.imageshack.gr/files/t75jyhklr0vca0cf7qzs.jpg

http://www.imageshack.gr/files/541b62xoj2oeidsn9ae5.jpg

Evan

[Hannibal]

I am relatively new to this discussion in terms of comparative experience (against some these old salts) so I apologize if I make an inaccurate statement. My opinions are based on my experiences with both so it could differ from others.

That being said, I will start by saying for the novice: spinning: easy to master ............ conventionals: harder to master.

However, in learning how to properly cast a conventional, I think it has more to offer than a spinning setup (in terms of chunking bait). I feel it can cast farther in an apples to apples comparison. I think for the most part (when comparing similar quality products), the drag setups are a bit better, stronger and dependable. There are expections to this rule of course. Line capacity tends to be a bit higher (availability wise at least) on a conventional setup - which is HUGE when trying to land bigger fish in the surf.

Spinning setups are easier to learn and master IMO. It's a pretty straight forward procedure and most are ready to toss right out of the box. Bird nest issues are far fewer with spinning setups than conventionals. For the most part, they are basically fool proof.

My surf reel collection started off primarly as spinning outfits of various sizes. However, over the past couple years, I've been adding conventionals to my arsenal. And to avoid spiking 10 rods out on the beach, I am quickly rotating conventioanls in while phasing out my spinners. I guess it's personal preference, but I just love what they can offer and what they can do.

I am now looking into building my metal tossing aresnal. And for that, the choice IMO is spinning all the way. Repeated casting, etc just makes them the logical choice.

[Cerberus]

Baitcaster vs Spinning reel for the surf......
What say you?

Threads like this are like asking your mechanic, "Should I get flat head or Phillips screwdrivers? Box wrenches or ratchets & sockets?"

You wouldn't go to a mechanic with only one tool in his tool box and you can't really fish all the opportunities the surf has to offer with only one type of reel. You could try, and you would do a few things very well and do a lot of other things very poorly or not at all.

It's like the old "if you could only have one gun" question. Sure, I can (and have, don't ask :rolleyes:) hunted rabbits with my 375 H&H or 45/70, but a .22 would be a better choice.

Not trying to kill the thread, it will make great reading, but since this was your first post I guess I can ask, Why are you asking?

[9 rock]

Ooooooohhhhh . . . wintertime fun thread!

My favorite discussion http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/party/party-smiley-027.gif

I will say first that there are some techniques / tactics when a conventional gets the nod (livelining mullet/bunker/eels off a jetty comes to mind) but I am an advocate for the supremacy of spinning tackle for open beach fishing; . . . The stipulation being, I'm not talking about a Penn 7500SS and Ugly Stik. (NTTIAWWT)

Modern, surf engineered spinners can do everything conventionals do from the beach and if you are willing to spend a few more bucks on upper tier equipment you can move into a zone of casting distance, drag performance, fish fighting ability and tackle strength only dreamed about by anyone surfcasting using any equipment just a few years ago.

Plainly stated my position is that modern spinning tackle opens a door for fishermen of all talent and experience levels to a level of performance and more importantly, day in day out fishing consistency that conventional tackle just does not offer.

Nothing against the guys willing to invest the time and pounds of mono to realize high performance consistently with revolving spools but I got better things to do. :fishing:

Ok, let it begin . . . http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/aktion/action-smiley-077.gif

you mean the guys with no talent dont you . the learning curb has never been as easy as it is now with conventianals and I have looked hi and dry to find one casting tournament a spinning reel has won also one thing no one ever brings up is the balance on the rod is much better with a conventional for instance fishing a east wind and turning your back to the wind and resting the rod on your shoulder while standing in the water and cranking power is un matched also.


9rock

[Al Kai]

Threads like this are like asking your mechanic, "Should I get flat head or Phillips screwdrivers? Box wrenches or ratchets & sockets?"

You wouldn't go to a mechanic with only one tool in his tool box and you can't really fish all the opportunities the surf has to offer with only one type of reel. You could try, and you would do a few things very well and do a lot of other things very poorly or not at all.

It's like the old "if you could only have one gun" question. Sure, I can (and have, don't ask :rolleyes:) hunted rabbits with my 375 H&H or 45/70, but a .22 would be a better choice.

Not trying to kill the thread, it will make great reading, but since this was your first post I guess I can ask, Why are you asking?

This is the way I see it also.

[Sgt_Slough]

when was the last time a spinning reel won a long distance contest?

Well, first off if we are discussing fishing applications that is the wrong question / focus because, when was the last time someone landed a decent fish from 500+ feet with a tournament sized and tuned conventional spooled with tournament line?

I, and most guys who throw spinners in casting tournaments use what essentially are, everyday fishing set-ups. I use an off the shelf HDX with the fishing butt and a Shimano PowerAero reel. Mark Edwards' national record for spinning was set with an All Star 1508 built just like thousands of others by Hatteras Jacks and a Shimano Thunnus 16000.

There's the rub!

For every modification that a conventional tournament caster makes to go fishing, a significant reduction in distance potential is realized.

Why don't we tally the changes up? . . .
Be honest and fill in the blanks:

Fishing sized and tuned reel? --- MINUS _____ FEET
.35mm / .40mm line --- MINUS _____ FEET
Moving reel up the butt ---- MINUS _____ FEET

Now, the only change I make to go fishing is to strip off that crappy mono and put on some 20lb braid.

For me, just that change to braid is worth a 5% - 7% INCREASE in my "fishing distance" vs. my "tournament distance" (using the same sinker). Yes, that's right I cast further with my spinning tackle set-up for fishing than I do in casting tournaments!

Spinners aren't allowed in most casting competitions.
There is no such restriction, I cast in all Sportcast USA events with a spinning reel.

http://users.skynet.be/mitchell-collectors.org/Images_Tournament.1/Mitchell%20Dist.2nd%20model.1.jpg
Ahh, the "Wedding Cake" reel; that is the Mitchell collector's holy grail.

One comes up on that big auction site every couple years and they fetch well over $1000.

Here are pics of the distance-only spinner. I found them in a thread on Stripers Online about this same topic.

http://www.imageshack.gr/files/t75jyhklr0vca0cf7qzs.jpg
A guy in Argentina spun a few of those spools out and made a flat rotor to get around the bigger diameter; the line roller is mounted on a threaded rod to fine-tune the wrap height. All in all, there's nothing exceptionally noteworthy about that reel except for the secondary hub to hold the shocker. There is a point of diminished results regarding spool diameter.

In Sportcast USA events no casts made with that reel could be recorded for score; such custom spools are not permitted in competition.

you mean the guys with no talent dont you .
No, not at all. My opinion can be extended to guys who are highly skilled with conventionals. I am highly skilled and can cast my fishing conventionals well over 500 feet but those casts are on the edge of disaster . . . Even using reels with all the bells and whistles blow-ups are just an inescapable part of long distance fishing with revolving spools . . . And just to be clear, by "long distance" for conventionals I'm talking about at least 500ft with a small chunk/worm/fillet and 400ft with 7+ weight and a big chunk. Anything short of that isn't "long distance" IMNSHO because those distances are easy chucks with my spinners.

the learning curb has never been as easy as it is now with conventianals
True, the technology is making casting them easier and easier. Last year I bought from England the most advanced and controllable long distance fishing conventional ever made and with it I made some of my longest and most problem free conventional FISHING casts ever. I sold it three weeks ago because it couldn't hold a candle to my high end spinner stuff. . .

http://pierandsurf.com/photopost/data/500/Daiwa_7ht_MAGb.jpg

My favorite conventional remains an un-magged Newell 235-5 with an aluminum spool and blue 3-in-1 oil in the bearings.

and I have looked hi and dry to find one casting tournament a spinning reel has won
When was the last time braid was allowed?

and cranking power is un matched also.
Not even close. In order to match the strength and cranking of some of the new surf spinners you would need to shop in the offshore aisle and bring a 50lb class lever drag trolling reel to the register. Even my old circa 1983 technology Daiwa Tournament S6000-T is rated for 65lb line and puts out 44lbs of drag.

Little Daiwa 2600SS's match the drag output of a Penn 525 and against an Abu??? Come on, even with whatever drag material you throw in there short of dilithium crystals beamed down from the Enterprise what are you gonna get . . 14lbs?

Then consider a Daiwa Emblem has 33lbs.

[9 rock]

QUOTE=Sgt_Slough;

Not even close. In order to match the strength and cranking of some of the new surf spinners you would need to shop in the offshore aisle and bring a 50lb class lever drag trolling reel to the register. Even my old circa 1983 technology Daiwa Tournament S6000-T is rated for 65lb line and puts out 44lbs of drag.

Little Daiwa 2600SS's match the drag output of a Penn 525 and against an Abu??? Come on, even with whatever drag material you throw in there short of dilithium crystals beamed down from the Enterprise what are you gonna get . . 14lbs?

Then consider a Daiwa Emblem has 33lbs.



its not apples and apples the drag on a spinning reel is on the spool . I can tell you this I often troll with umbrella riggs with 120z weights with both my avet and a penn 750 ss
while in the rod holder its all you can do to get that penn in the avet brings it in like nothing so I dont know what that means but I can tell you with out pumping the rod the avet blows it away . and me personaly throw my bait casters about 25yds farther than my spinning tackle with 20lb power pro mabe I can get that extra distance out of another reel I dont know. I will be buying the new sealine bite and run I will see what that does

9rock

[Moon]

It all depends upon what fish you plan to target.

Large fish/Large Rod- Conventional

Small fish/Smaller rods- Spinning

Trout from the beach-spinning
Large drum from the surf-conventional

Nothing at all wrong with spinning reels and heavers. I just can't throw them as far and certainly have tried. Distance often equals fish while surf fishing.

FORD!:)

[Drumdum]

It all depends upon what fish you plan to target.

Large fish/Large Rod- Conventional

Small fish/Smaller rods- Spinning

Trout from the beach-spinning
Large drum from the surf-conventional

Nothing at all wrong with spinning reels and heavers. I just can't throw them as far and certainly have tried. Distance often equals fish while surf fishing.

FORD!:)

I'm with you and a Ford man as well... Although Sgt Slough has found his nitch with spinners,I have not for the very things you described.. Have always been able to fight a big fish better with conventional,or at least it is less tiring for me in a long fight.. Caught some big cobes and drum with spinners,but that is only because it is so much easier to sightcast,and get the shot you want at a fish with a spinning rod... There are advantages,especially with jigs,I seem to get the hook in a fish and get him coming my way quicker with a spinner,although the fight is tougher and longer,jmo....

As far as casting there are only two folks that I know here on OBX that can really cast a spinner right along side conventionals.. Yes,they can flat sling the devil outta 8nbait.. It just ain't me though.... :D

[kingfisherman23]

There is no such restriction, I cast in all Sportcast USA events with a spinning reel.

Thanks for catching that, Sgt. I meant to bring up braid not being allowed in tournament casting.

And kudos on an excellent post on the virtues of fixed-spool surf fishing.

Evan

[surfchunker]

fishing for smaller fish I use spinners and fishing chunks and heads I use conv.

[bjake]

Been casting conventional for over sixty years and just can't get used to spinners as I handle them like a girl.Fishing with bait and getting lots of bites they get my fingers sore.Trying to get better at using spinners for light lures fishing fresh water but clumsy at it.
Jake

[AbuMike]

QUOTE=Sgt_Slough;

Not even close. In order to match the strength and cranking of some of the new surf spinners you would need to shop in the offshore aisle and bring a 50lb class lever drag trolling reel to the register. Even my old circa 1983 technology Daiwa Tournament S6000-T is rated for 65lb line and puts out 44lbs of drag.

Little Daiwa 2600SS's match the drag output of a Penn 525 and against an Abu??? Come on, even with whatever drag material you throw in there short of dilithium crystals beamed down from the Enterprise what are you gonna get . . 14lbs?

Then consider a Daiwa Emblem has 33lbs.

9rock

Now tell me again why when using 14#, 17# and 20# mono I need all this drag pressure?

[9 rock]

I thought drag was for running fish I also thought you were not supposed to crank agianst the drag also the rod and rod angle add drag and in a spinning reel the bail
I would still like to see a spinning reel crank in a big shark the way a I have seen a old squidder do or a pro gear that has 30lb of drag straight out of the box
I quess I will see it sooner or later but have not seen it yet most beaches are not flooded with high end spinning tackle when you can get all you need in conventional for $150 and your set


9rock

9rock

[AbuMike]

Asking a question.....What will happen if I lock the drag down on my reel filled with 17# Tri+ and I hook a 50# fish?

[Fireline20]

Not sure if you guys are aware, but Berkely just came out with a new line called Fireline Tracer and from what I am hearing it is going to blow a hole in the "how much drag" you need questions and all this fuss about "magging up" those conventionals.

It comes in 15 lb to 80 lb:eek: and the 80 lb has the diameter of 15 lb mono and it was awarded the "Best New Fishing Line" title at the 2008 I-Cast Fishing Tackle Industry Trade Show.

Now having said that, I am a Ford man but a Spinning Man mainly because they, like the Ford's, are cheaper to buy, work just fine for the average joe blow on the beach and are easier to cast.

So I would dare say, by putting some Berkely Fireline Tracer 40 to 50 lb on one of those newer spinning reels with the long distance casting spools (ie Daiwa ABS), placing that on on a good 13ft Graphite Rod (ie Breakaway LDX) and your gonna get comparable distance, and fighting abililty as a magged up conventional.

JMHO though

[AbuMike]

And the Braid vs Mono has been covered countless times also...:rolleyes:

[9 rock]

if Iput a blower on my 68 mustang 302 I can run with a big block chevy camaro



9rock

[Fireline20]

And the Braid vs Mono has been covered countless times also...:rolleyes:

Yeppers and we all stick with what we like, but then again Fireline is not really a braid,,,it is classed as a super mono line.

My point was that Drag ain't as as important as it used to be with the advent of higher strength line at smaller diameters. So conventional casting reels have lost that advantage over spinners as you can now pile on tons of high lb line on a spinner like you never could with mono.
Again JMHO:D

[AbuMike]

Taken from Berkley website.......

Introducing NEW Fireline® TRACER BRAID, the ULTIMATE braided fishing line. Loaded with the latest in cutting edge technology advancements, Tracer Braid features a breakthrough in braided line design called Radial Construction, which makes it the roundest, smoothest braided line built today.

[Fireline20]

Ok then the new Tracer is considered in the "Braid" Catagory. I wonder if it cuts other guys mono like regular braid does, since it is supposedly smoother?

Anyone got any ideas or experience with that?

And I just had another thought,,,,with that much poundage as running line, it would seem that the rod tip's strength now becomes more of a question and worry,,,what say ye to that guys?

[Tommy]

if Iput a blower on my 68 mustang 302 I can run with a big block chevy camaro



9rock


Only with 411 gears.... :D:D

[AbuMike]

Only with 411 gears.... :D:D

And everyone knows a small block Chevy will make more horsepower in a street setup

[racewire20]

if Iput a blower on my 68 mustang 302 I can run with a big block chevy camaro


9rock


Ya might wan't to throw in a little NOS to boot:D

And everyone knows a small block Chevy will make more horsepower in a street setup

With a cheaper price tag!!

[9 rock]

Ya might wan't to throw in a little NOS to boot:D



With a cheaper price tag!!

not so true now days back then yes but the 5.0 is mabe the most popular small block ever made you go to the track and they ar all over the place
my friend has one that runs low 8,s no juice and is tagged on the road it is a nasty machine he wanted to race a guy with me in it I told him to let me out


9ball

[AbuMike]

not so true now days back then yes but the 5.0 is mabe the most popular small block ever made
9ball

Maybe..I'll tell that to the 350/375 and the 327/300 sb chevy in my garage and see what they thinks of it....Stud twisting power right there...

[Cerberus]

Yeppers and we all stick with what we like, but then again Fireline is not really a braid,,,it is classed as a super mono line.


This is not a hijack, OK, but based on your quote and your handle, you are the guy to ask:

Just what the heck is Fireline? Super Mono Line?

I picked up a few spools of 50# & 65# Fireline XDS on green-dot special and I'm not sure how I want to use it.

What is it good for, or best at doing?

It seems thinner than the same rating of mono, but is much thicker than braid.

I have 4x125ydx50# and 3x125x65# spools of the stuff and I can load it on to spinners and conventionals from small to large.

Any advice or enlightenment you can share?

Thanks,

[Fireline20]

This is not a hijack, OK, but based on your quote and your handle, you are the guy to ask:

Just what the heck is Fireline? Super Mono Line?

I picked up a few spools of 50# & 65# Fireline XDS on green-dot special and I'm not sure how I want to use it.

What is it good for, or best at doing?

It seems thinner than the same rating of mono, but is much thicker than braid.

I have 4x125ydx50# and 3x125x65# spools of the stuff and I can load it on to spinners and conventionals from small to large.

Any advice or enlightenment you can share?

Thanks,

Honestly,

Never heard of Fireline XDS before your post. But with a little research and info from Google Univ, it looks like it was the predecessor of Fireline Tracer and is available at fire sale prices.....

This I can tell you, I will swear by Fireline Crystal 20 an 30 lb as THE best line I have ever used, beats mono and braid hands down, casts like a dream, no memory and gets better the more you use it. It ain't cheap, but it lasts a long long time

Now I have not used XDS so I can give you no report and I have not tried Tracer,,,yet,,,but I will.

All I can say is give it a shot but I would probably think it was best suited for deep sea down line than suff casting line.

[Cerberus]

Honestly,

Never heard of Fireline XDS before your post. But with a little research and info from Google Univ, it looks like it was the predecessor of Fireline Tracer and is available at fire sale prices.....

This I can tell you, I will swear by Fireline Crystal 20 an 30 lb as THE best line I have ever used, beats mono and braid hands down, casts like a dream, no memory and gets better the more you use it. It ain't cheap, but it lasts a long long time

Now I have not used XDS so I can give you no report and I have not tried Tracer,,,yet,,,but I will.

All I can say is give it a shot but I would probably think it was best suited for deep sea down line than suff casting line.

Thanks for the fast response.

It was cheap, I think about $1.29 a spool, so the price is right.

I tried to fill a Penn 535GS with the 50# and could barely get two spools on it, wound tight. The 555GS would be a better choice but it was already full of new mono.

I thought about using it on one of my big spinners but haven't gotten to it yet.

I might try this weekend, as I am heading up to Jensen Beach and Fin&Scale reports heavy sharkiness right on the beach.

Whatever this stuff is, the toothies would make for a good test.

[Fireline20]

Thanks for the fast response.

It was cheap, I think about $1.29 a spool, so the price is right.

I tried to fill a Penn 535GS with the 50# and could barely get two spools on it, wound tight. The 555GS would be a better choice but it was already full of new mono.

I thought about using it on one of my big spinners but haven't gotten to it yet.

I might try this weekend, as I am heading up to Jensen Beach and Fin&Scale reports heavy sharkiness right on the beach.

Whatever this stuff is, the toothies would make for a good test.


Would love to hear a report on it.....at that price, it would be good toothie stuff and I got a Daiwa BG 90 for Christmas that would just fit the case

[kingfisherman23]

Where did you get the XDS?

I'm looking for something strong and thin that will last more than one season for my king/shark rig. This XDS sounds like the ticket, since I can't shell out $129 for a spool of 65# Spectra.

Evan

[Sgt_Slough]

Have always been able to fight a big fish better with conventional,or at least it is less tiring for me in a long fight.
I've never understood this . . . Here's what I experience when fighting a fish with conventional surf tackle:

Conventional tackle demands holding the rod in the weak hand with the weak arm with the palm up so any strength is compromised by poor ergonomics; whether you place the butt between your legs or under your arm any pumping or directional work is pretty much all bicep . . .

Compounding this is that under strain, the conventional rod must be gripped tightly to keep roll-over from happening and every crank under strain rocks the rod left to right. Of course this tight grip is compromised because you are guiding the line back on the spool. More often than not I find myself trying to hold the rod by pinching it between the pad of my thumb and three fingers. For me, all this just gets the carpel tunnel going and the forearm and bicep throbbing.

Now, under fish fighting strain with spinning tackle with the line under the rod and the reel under the rod, the mechanics are much more stable. When fighting and pumping a fish you are holding the rod with your strong hand, working it with your strong arm . . . I find the grip I take with a spinner (like I'm holding a hammer) permits the use of more muscle groups including, most importantly, the back muscles. When fighting a fish, the pumping motion is just like drawing a bow, the triceps, deltoid and lats are all heavily involved . . . The motion is much more efficient and the ergonomics more natural and thus, less tiring.

Now tell me again why when using 14#, 17# and 20# mono I need all this drag pressure?
To put it bluntly, you won't. The discussion of the strength of these reels is not inclusive of "all" reels used for surfcasting. The modern surf spinners I am focused on are in a class of tackle a few steps above Abu's and 525's . . . We are talking about reels that are designed to land 60lb+ Roosterfish and 75lb Jack Crevale from the surf. That's kinda my point . . .

Even here on the East Coast formally "conventional only" specific fisheries have "discovered" that high performance spinners just blow away revolving spool reels . . . Case in point, the Cape Cod Canal. The Canal Rats throw 6oz diamond Jigs into a seven knot current and pull 40+lb stripers out and these modern surf spinners do a better job casting, working the lure and landing the fish than conventionals. . . case closed.

Asking a question.....What will happen if I lock the drag down on my reel filled with 17# Tri+ and I hook a 50# fish?
You would loose the fish. And if you put 65lb braid on your 7500CTC3 and locked it down you would be posting in the Marketplace: "WTB -7500CTC3 spool and crossbars." Now if you did it with my S6000-T you would be admiring that nice fish at your feet or at least the part of the jaw still attached to your hook.

Not sure if you guys are aware, but Berkely just came out with a new line called Fireline Tracer and from what I am hearing it is going to blow a hole in the "how much drag" you need questions and all this fuss about "magging up" those conventionals.

It comes in 15 lb to 80 lb:eek: and the 80 lb has the diameter of 15 lb mono and it was awarded the "Best New Fishing Line" title at the 2008 I-Cast Fishing Tackle Industry Trade Show.
It's not new, just new here.

It is a re-labeled (for the North American market) line sold in Europe which I've been using it for a bit now and yes, it is insanely thin! The 20lb is 1/4 the diameter of 20lb Sufix Performance Braid (.24mm vs .06mm). The 80lb is the same diameter as 20lb Sufix Performance braid. Jury is still out, I only have it on three set-ups but so far it is, literally, out of sight!

if Iput a blower on my 68 mustang 302 I can run with a big block chevy camaro
And no matter what you do y'all be lookin like you're standin still as the Yankee's Lamborghini goes by. ;)

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr328/Surf_Fishing_Guru/9cc4a961.jpg

[AbuMike]

nevermind it ain't worth it............

[9 rock]

QUOTE=Sgt_Slough

Conventional tackle demands holding the rod in the weak hand with the weak arm with the palm up so any strength is compromised by poor ergonomics; whether you place the butt between your legs or under your arm any pumping or directional work is pretty much all bicep

well that I can disprove in about five seconds take a barbell with what ever weight you think you can curl with palms up and then turn palms down tell me how that works out for you. watch yout toes is all I can say and cranking with you right hand is far eaiser then the weak left is


And no matter what you do y'all be lookin like you're standin still as the Yankee's Lamborghini goes by.

and I will roll with many american cars in a 1/4 mile and blow the doors compleatly of that lamborghini. its not even a comparison

oh and just for the record strippers are not even close to a good fighting fish
I crank those 40lb fish on 20 lb conventionals all day long with a five foot rod
talk to me when you are landing 250lb and above sharks on that spinning gear
9rock

[Drumdum]

Have always been able to fight a big fish better with conventional,or at least it is less tiring for me in a long fight.

I've never understood this . . . Here's what I experience when fighting a fish with conventional surf tackle:

Conventional tackle demands holding the rod in the weak hand with the weak arm with the palm up so any strength is compromised by poor ergonomics; whether you place the butt between your legs or under your arm any pumping or directional work is pretty much all bicep . . .

Compounding this is that under strain, the conventional rod must be gripped tightly to keep roll-over from happening and every crank under strain rocks the rod left to right. Of course this tight grip is compromised because you are guiding the line back on the spool. More often than not I find myself trying to hold the rod by pinching it between the pad of my thumb and three fingers. For me, all this just gets the carpel tunnel going and the forearm and bicep throbbing.

Now, under fish fighting strain with spinning tackle with the line under the rod and the reel under the rod, the mechanics are much more stable. When fighting and pumping a fish you are holding the rod with your strong hand, working it with your strong arm . . . I find the grip I take with a spinner (like I'm holding a hammer) permits the use of more muscle groups including, most importantly, the back muscles. When fighting a fish, the pumping motion is just like drawing a bow, the triceps, deltoid and lats are all heavily involved . . . The motion is much more efficient and the ergonomics more natural and thus, less tiring.



We'll just have to agree to disagree here... Maybe it's cause I'm amadexterous (mispelled badly I'm sure:rolleyes) It doesn't work on my biceps,at times it can wear on the forearms,maybe from gripping the rod as you say,but the same happens with a spinning rod... I've caught plenty of big fish on both spinning and conventional,with the bigger being on conventional,and would say without a doubt my back hurts much less when using conventional... Don't know how to explain it as well as you tried to put your point across,but it seems as though I can still relax when fighting a fish with conventional,where on spinning tackle it seems like there is no way to catch a break...
Like has been said it's chevys and fords,but each has it's own purpose in my own feeshin applications...

[Shooter]

And we havent even started in on them Yankies pounding in their PVC tubes on the beach to put their little spinners in :p

But I guess when your just tossing out a short ways and only catchn little fish ya don't need much :D

[AbuMike]

And we havent even started in on them Yankies pounding in their PVC tubes on the beach to put their little spinners in :p

But I guess when your just tossing out a short ways and only catchn little fish ya don't need much :D

oh man...this will really get it going...:beer::popcorn:

[Fireline20]

And we havent even started in on them Yankies pounding in their PVC tubes on the beach to put their little spinners in :p

But I guess when your just tossing out a short ways and only catchn little fish ya don't need much :D

What Ev;;;


I Like my spinners, the Sgt is right about fighting with the right hand and reeling with the left, can't beat the point,,, I guess they had the same arguments about the horse and buggy versus the the Model A or Model T ford.

From my point of view, conventional is proven and works great, but spinning tech, line tech, drag tech, has caught up with it and will pass it.

Stay with the conventionals if you like, but get off our case about using spinning and calling us "less skilled" :--|

Discussion over,,,,

You win

We win

Now lets go fishing and STFU:fishing:

[AbuMike]

ya'll are the ones getting all touchy over it just because we disagree with you. do what you want but we did not say We are right and you are wrong we like conventional and you like spinners, so what. to each his own.

[Sgt_Slough]

nevermind it ain't worth it............

Don't give up so easy . . . it's all fun

and I will roll with many american cars in a 1/4 mile and blow the doors compleatly of that lamborghini. its not even a comparison

Sorry, it's the perfect comparison. After considerable work and tweaking and artificial aspiration the old school can do the giddy-up . . . See, I get it. Understand though, I'm just a lazy spinner guy who can't be bothered witalldat. I wanna go fast and long now!

oh and just for the record strippers are not even close to a good fighting fish

That's been my point; conventional purists want to make the case that these east coast fish are sooooo taxing that only conventional gear is up to the task of landing them . . . It's ludicrous.

I crank those 40lb fish on 20 lb conventionals all day long with a five foot rod talk to me when you are landing 250lb and above sharks on that spinning gear

You do realize that speed jigging and throwing big poppers to BFT's with spinning tackle is all the rage?

267lb bluefin on a 6000 series Shimano (WARNING - celebratory BLUE language -- turn down your speakers :eek:). . .

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/pVlkMPd7Uqk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/pVlkMPd7Uqk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

It is time to accept that the paradigm regarding what spinning tackle is capable of has changed.

[Sgt_Slough]

well that I can disprove in about five seconds take a barbell with what ever weight you think you can curl with palms up and then turn palms down tell me how that works out for you.

UHHHH, you have the motions all wrong; the spinner motion is a row, like I said "drawing a bow." I know I can do more heavy reps with a strongside row than I can with a weakside curl:

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr328/Surf_Fishing_Guru/08d336a7.jpg

(not me, just stole the pic . . . )

[dawgfsh]

For me it's not about which one fights the best, it's about which one throws 8-16 oz and a big fish head the easiest.

For me, thats a conventional.

[9 rock]

UHHHH, you have the motions all wrong; the spinner motion is a row, like I said "drawing a bow." I know I can do more heavy reps with a strongside row than I can with a weakside curl:

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr328/Surf_Fishing_Guru/08d336a7.jpg

(not me, just stole the pic . . . )

I hope not because that little bit of weight is not even enough for a good work out

you are a funny guy they run the tuna down with the boat its all the guy can do to hang on he can barely get a turn on the reel with out the boats help
you are going to have to do a little better than that. lets see one cranked in from the beach that guy looks like hes hanging on for dear life

oh and show me where that rowing motion is

[Sgt_Slough]

For me it's not about which one fights the best, it's about which one throws 8-16 oz and a big fish head the easiest.

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr328/Surf_Fishing_Guru/46f534e6.gif

[Magged Out]

:popcorn::popcorn::beer:

[Sgt_Slough]

I hope not because that little bit of weight is not even enough for a good work out I could curl that all day long standing when I was that age

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr328/Surf_Fishing_Guru/46f534e6.gif

TOO!

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr328/Surf_Fishing_Guru/f14cf57d.jpg

[Lip Ripper]

oh and just for the record strippers are not even close to a good fighting fish
I crank those 40lb fish on 20 lb conventionals all day long with a five foot rod
talk to me when you are landing 250lb and above sharks on that spinning gear
9rock

first off, strippers......... never mind i wont even go there;)

as for reeling in 40#rs in all day on a 5ft rod,thats easy. try it on a 12ft rod and tell me how your arms feel at the end of the day.

i think we should have a cast off between sgt and 9rock :popcorn:

[Sgt_Slough]

i think we should have a cast off between sgt and 9rock :popcorn:

I ain't hard to find . . . Heck I'll even come down there! I always try for my first pullage of the year at Sandy Point in late March, Here's my son a couple years ago, (he was throwing 540ft with 125gms on a spinner at 13yo) he caught a bunch that day . . .

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr328/Surf_Fishing_Guru/444134f7.jpg

I'll be at the Sportcast events in Marlton NJ, Charlotte, Virginia Beach and DC . . .

Heck, I'd love to have a old fashioned FISHING EQUIPMENT ONLY castamuck down there. It's been years since the last one! (http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20718) I can promise a few Yankee spinner gurus will make an appearance!

Because, and nothing directed at anyone in this thread, just speaking from experience; I have a nickname for a measured field -- it's kryptonite for message board casters. As soon as they see those cones stretched out they suddenly are afflicted with a myriad of physical maladies and equipment malfunctions . . .

Awww my shoulder is acting up, awww I should have changed / oiled these bearings, awwww I'm used to throwing more weight, my timing's off, awww, awww, awww . . .

A good ol' step to the line and put a number next to your name is good for the character every once and a while . . . in some it nurtures humility, in others arrogance . . . But only in the face of anonymous conjecture you pretty much know to be BS.

[cockroachjr.]

Obama with a spinner and McCain with a baitcaster....or maybe the other way around..anyway I like to use both as either side has there pro's and con's..but for some reason since I've been using conventional I suck throwing anything other than lures with a spinner.

[9 rock]

first off, strippers......... never mind i wont even go there;)

as for reeling in 40#rs in all day on a 5ft rod,thats easy. try it on a 12ft rod and tell me how your arms feel at the end of the day.

i think we should have a cast off between sgt and 9rock :popcorn:

thats my point exactly from a boat is one thing from the beach is another

[tiderunnawanna]

reports here are challenging almost ignorant.

[9 rock]

I ain't hard to find . . . Heck I'll even come down there! I always try for my first pullage of the year at Sandy Point in late March, Here's my son a couple years ago, (he was throwing 540ft with 125gms on a spinner at 13yo) he caught a bunch that day . . .

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr328/Surf_Fishing_Guru/444134f7.jpg

I'll be at the Sportcast events in Marlton NJ, Charlotte, Virginia Beach and DC . . .

Heck, I'd love to have a old fashioned FISHING EQUIPMENT ONLY castamuck down there. It's been years since the last one! (http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20718) I can promise a few Yankee spinner gurus will make an appearance!

Because, and nothing directed at anyone in this thread, just speaking from experience; I have a nickname for a measured field -- it's kryptonite for message board casters. As soon as they see those cones stretched out they suddenly are afflicted with a myriad of physical maladies and equipment malfunctions . . .

Awww my shoulder is acting up, awww I should have changed / oiled these bearings, awwww I'm used to throwing more weight, my timing's off, awww, awww, awww . . .

A good ol' step to the line and put a number next to your name is good for the character every once and a while . . . in some it nurtures humility, in others arrogance . . . But only in the face of anonymous conjecture you pretty much know to be BS.

first of all this is not a battle between you and I Iam sure you can cast both farther than me at allmost 50 its all I can do to get 100+yrds 8nbait the bigger argument is cranking power of a spinning reel to a conventional from the beach the equiptment not the man I am pretty sure tommy farmer can out throw your spinning gear but that is not the point .I surf fish about 6 times a year. and been doing it since 1972 and have not once seen anybody throw big weight with a spinnig rod as far as convetional but since I have three boats I crank in more rockfish and bluefish then I could ever count and in the summer time I troll all my surf gear both spinning and convetional and live line with both also and I do not see where my spinning gear is as powerfull as my conventional but if you do come down to sandy point in the spring I would like to see it in fact come down to chesapeak beach and you can show me I am not to old to learn a new trick then we can troll for some big rock if we are lucky:fishing:


9rock

[SmoothLures]

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[tiderunnawanna]

your opinion welcomes me with vicarious notion to direct my g/a with weary,knowlege to thread a new discussion

[Cerberus]

Would love to hear a report on it.....at that price, it would be good toothie stuff and I got a Daiwa BG 90 for Christmas that would just fit the case

I'd love to give you a report :)

When I said "big spinner" I was thinking of the BG-90 I have hanging in the garage right now. I'll let you know what happens.

[Cerberus]

Where did you get the XDS?

I'm looking for something strong and thin that will last more than one season for my king/shark rig. This XDS sounds like the ticket, since I can't shell out $129 for a spool of 65# Spectra.

Evan

Got the XDS at Sports Authority this past summer.

Periodically they put fishing stuff on "green-dot" close out, which is 30% off prices that often are already heavily reduced. I have the advantage of living in an area with Sports Authority's on nearly every corner, and the abilty to hunt them all for the best deals.

Depending on the item, your attitude and the mood of the manager even the discount can be negotiable.

I had a store manager tell me that I could have anything green dot at 50% off no matter what it was. Another fishing department manager told me that even though he had nothing on green dot, if I bought over $100 of fishing stuff he'd give $25 off, without a coupon. That even included already discounted clearance items. I am talking about Penn, Daiwa, Okuma and Quantum reels, rods, etc.

I have obtained an embarrassing amount of very nice stuff for relatively litte money this way. Needless to say, I rareley pass up the chance to stop at Sports Authority when I am near a store.

[AbuMike]

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

funny stuff huh....it cracks me up...:D:D

[sand flea]

So to the original poster...

Both set-ups catch fish. Both can give you good distance with the right equipment, practice and technique. And both have drawbacks.

The answer is there really is no single answer. Ask some friends to borrow their equipment and see which you prefer. And once you've settled on an answer, don't let any bozo tell you your choice is wrong.

[Fireline20]

So to the original poster...

Both set-ups catch fish. Both can give you good distance with the right equipment, practice and technique. And both have drawbacks.

The answer is there really is no single answer. Ask some friends to borrow their equipment and see which you prefer. And once you've settled on an answer, don't let any bozo tell you your choice is wrong.


Cheers to the above, I will drink to that :beer::beer:

[rocket]

I use both depending on how I am fishing. If I want distance I go conventional every time. Show me a spinning reel for $150 or less than can outcast the 525 or the daiwas and maybe you'll change my mind (money is a factor for me). As for the argument about which fights better/smoother/easier, I don't know which one wins but I will endure some soreness during the fight if the reel I'm using will get my bait to the fish better than another.

[Sgt_Slough]

Show me a spinning reel for $150 or less than can outcast the 525 or the daiwas and maybe you'll change my mind

For me I feel Tica Dolphins and Daiwa Emcasts certainly have that capability for that price but I'm stating that without knowing what you consider these benchmark casts to be with "the 525 or the daiwas." I'm going to assume for this experiment that we are discussing reels tuned for fishing, spooled with fishing appropriate line mounted on "fishing" rods throwing fishing sinkers on rigs with bait . . .

I ask because in these back and forth debates on tackle I can NEVER get a conventional fisherman to answer a simple question with real world numbers; What do you consider a really good cast to be with your conventional outfits for (A) 5-6oz & a small chunk / filet or worm bait and (B) 7-8oz and a big chunk? It seems all anyone is willing to say is that it is always longer than any spinner can throw.

Rocket, I think you would be the perfect guy to answer for two reasons: You obviously have established benchmark numbers and you have stated your mind is open to new information.

Thanks!

[9 rock]

For me I feel Tica Dolphins and Daiwa Emcasts certainly have that capability for that price but I'm stating that without knowing what you consider these benchmark casts to be with "the 525 or the daiwas." I'm going to assume for this experiment that we are discussing reels tuned for fishing, spooled with fishing appropriate line mounted on "fishing" rods throwing fishing sinkers on rigs with bait . . .

I ask because in these back and forth debates on tackle I can NEVER get a conventional fisherman to answer a simple question with real world numbers; What do you consider a really good cast to be with your conventional outfits for (A) 5-6oz & a small chunk / filet or worm bait and (B) 7-8oz and a big chunk? It seems all anyone is willing to say is that it is always longer than any spinner can throw.

Rocket, I think you would be the perfect guy to answer for two reasons: You obviously have established benchmark numbers and you have stated your mind is open to new information.

Thanks!

also consider some other options . do you want a reel that is 4-5 oz more than the mag because at the end of the day you are throwing that weight also . do want to have to flip that bail all day long also do you want a slow retrieve 6.1 compared to 4.1 and setting the drag while fighting the fish or adding drag with thumb or hand cranking with strong hand or weak lets face it they call it fishing not catching. holding the rod with palm in or out consider curling weight palm in then reverse curl palm out no question palms out is harder :D:popcorn:

9rock

[AbuMike]

For me I feel Tica Dolphins and Daiwa Emcasts certainly have that capability for that price but I'm stating that without knowing what you consider these benchmark casts to be with "the 525 or the daiwas." I'm going to assume for this experiment that we are discussing reels tuned for fishing, spooled with fishing appropriate line mounted on "fishing" rods throwing fishing sinkers on rigs with bait . . .

I ask because in these back and forth debates on tackle I can NEVER get a conventional fisherman to answer a simple question with real world numbers; What do you consider a really good cast to be with your conventional outfits for (A) 5-6oz & a small chunk / filet or worm bait and (B) 7-8oz and a big chunk? It seems all anyone is willing to say is that it is always longer than any spinner can throw.

Rocket, I think you would be the perfect guy to answer for two reasons: You obviously have established benchmark numbers and you have stated your mind is open to new information.

Thanks!


I think this now has turned into :spam: or a waste of bandwidth, which ever way you want to look at it. You want an answer, here you go....
A really good cast with conventional is one that puts your bait in the spot you want it. This side of the bar, the other side of the bar or in the slough just after the break. The answer is there's no right or wrong answer, it's putting it where you want to fish.........................

[rocket]

For me 100+ yards is a good cast in minimal wind with 6 or 8 + bait depending on the rod I'm using. This is with the penn 525 and the sl30sh out of the box... no additional tuning. Rods are not custom... they are 12' Tica and 12' OM heavy.

[Jesse Lockowitz]

I think this now has turned into :spam: or a waste of bandwidth, which ever way you want to look at it. You want an answer, here you go....
A really good cast with conventional is one that puts your bait in the spot you want it. This side of the bar, the other side of the bar or in the slough just after the break. The answer is there's no right or wrong answer, it's putting it where you want to fish.........................

i think its more of being ABLE to reach where you WANT to fish.

it doesnt mean much if you want to reach that hole 110yrds out, if you cant reach it :p

i usually am a conv guy, except for metal slinging, but ive had some people stand next to me w/ heavers and high end spinners like srg is talkin about, and make me feel vewy vewy small :p



Jesse

[AbuMike]

i think its more of being ABLE to reach where you WANT to fish.

it doesnt mean much if you want to reach that hole 110yrds out, if you cant reach it :p

i usually am a conv guy, except for metal slinging, but ive had some people stand next to me w/ heavers and high end spinners like srg is talkin about, and make me feel vewy vewy small :p



Jesse

I agree with that, no question. This whole thing is about which is better and there is no answer. It's a question of which is better for you or which you like better. It's a personal thing. There is no right or wrong.......Right????

[Sgt_Slough]

And as usual, the diversions begin ("hey, fishing is supposed to be fun - use whatever you like" or "You only need to cast where the fish are") . . .

One thing's for sure though, an actual answer to my question is never given.

I posted already what I consider "long distance fishing"

I'll save you the clicking and scrolling:

My opinion can be extended to guys who are highly skilled with conventionals. I am highly skilled and can cast my fishing conventionals well over 500 feet but those casts are on the edge of disaster . . . Even using reels with all the bells and whistles blow-ups are just an inescapable part of long distance fishing with revolving spools . . . And just to be clear, by "long distance" for conventionals I'm talking about at least 500ft with a small chunk/worm/fillet and 400ft with 7+ weight and a big chunk. Anything short of that isn't "long distance" IMNSHO because those distances are easy chucks with my spinners.

Actual numbers make for a better discussion . . . will they be forthcoming or will this "debate" end like all the others I've entered to rebut the old wives tale that conventionals are "the only gear to use if you wanna throw long"???????

[AbuMike]

Ok, I think if you can cast 110 yards you good to go with conventional...But, if the fish are 50 yards your screwed...If the fish are 200 yards off the beach your screwed with spinning or conventional.....

[9 rock]

I think this now has turned into :spam: or a waste of bandwidth, which ever way you want to look at it. You want an answer, here you go....
A really good cast with conventional is one that puts your bait in the spot you want it. This side of the bar, the other side of the bar or in the slough just after the break. The answer is there's no right or wrong answer, it's putting it where you want to fish.........................

I will agree with that its just not as fun agreeing as disagreeing

I dont know why this guy is fishing with a spinning reel:fishing:


nof said glad we have both gives us a choice for what ever reason we have.
now I will have one of these and relax and wait till spring:beer:


9rock

[Cdog]

And as usual, the diversions begin ("hey, fishing is supposed to be fun - use whatever you like" or "You only need to cast where the fish are") . . .

One thing's for sure though, an actual answer to my question is never given.

I posted already what I consider "long distance fishing"

I'll save you the clicking and scrolling:



Actual numbers make for a better discussion . . . will they be forthcoming or will this "debate" end like all the others I've entered to rebut the old wives tale that conventionals are "the only gear to use if you wanna throw long"???????
Sgt, I have thrown a 8oz weight and half a 6" Sassy Shad over 400' on a measured field. Now do I think I throw 8 an bait 400' in fishing conditions? No, your footing is not the same and usually when fishing is good you have a wind in your face. I figure realistically I hit around 300+ with 8 an bait.

But then again I am just a fisherman, I don't distance cast.

[AbuMike]

With this guy there's alot more to it. He wants numbers so he can brag. This is what I have seen through out this thread.:mad::mad: Now you have numbers, say what you have to say. I dn't give a rats a$$ how far you cast or what you cast with. Your a braggart plain and simple. Cheers for the ignore feature, like I said:spam::spam: I'm out....:beer:

[Lip Ripper]

i use conventionals and if im trying to get my 8nbait out there, i think anything over 300ft (in fishing conditions) is good for me. but thats just me.

[jimmy z]

Oh God, it's gonna' be a loooong winter...

I'll leave the pros and cons to everyone else, but has anyone else noticed the geographic divide on equipment? Down south most seem to use conventionals, while up north spinners dominate.
I fish the rocky shoreline of RI. I use plugs and eels. And I get these plugs and eels out to where the big gals are hanging, with a
conventional setup. I have a BLAST, doing it as well.:)

[Moon]

Ok! I have compared Ocean Master 12 conventioal to Ocean Master 12 spinner. Both rods rated to 6-10 oz. Conventional had diawa 30 shv with 20 suffix, 40 lb.shock leader and 8 oz weight. Average distance around 110 yards. Spinner with diawa emblem 5000 and 20 suffix , with 40 pound shock and 8 oz weight had average distance 90 yards. Yes, I can throw a conventional farther. So what?? As for fishing, not sure how far I throw. Have you ever waded out to measure your cast of the beach? No one really knows how far they cast off the beach with waders, clothes, wind, tide etc. and does not really matter as long as you cast far enough to reach the fish. I can only compare distance in a field measured with rangefinder. Again small fish/light line spinner and big fish/heavy line conventional. No real debate, just use what you like! If anyone can cast a spinner 600 to 700 feet good for them, what does that prove??

[Sgt_Slough]

Ok, I think if you can cast 110 yards you good to go with conventional...

That's what I've heard . . . and that's exactly what motivates me to strongly rebut blanket claims that conventionals "just throw further" than spinners.

But, if the fish are 50 yards your screwed...

????? You mean 50 yards further than your 110? Uhhhh, that's my regular zone for my far bait up here.

If the fish are 200 yards off the beach your screwed with spinning or conventional.....

Not true. I've used a trolling sinker / casting sinker with a teaser above as an extreme distance / last resort rig (to breaking fish etc.); not to mention some of the aerodynamic metals. I would need to use an OTG cast to get it out there though.

I will agree with that its just not as fun agreeing as disagreeing

True Dat! A little adversarial debate is good for the mind!

nof said glad we have both gives us a choice for what ever reason we have.

And I'll say again that I use both.

Sgt, I have thrown a 8oz weight and half a 6" Sassy Shad over 400' on a measured field. Now do I think I throw 8 an bait 400' in fishing conditions? No, your footing is not the same and usually when fishing is good you have a wind in your face. I figure realistically I hit around 300+ with 8 an bait.

But then again I am just a fisherman, I don't distance cast.

Finally, someone else who has actually measured something! And I agree that casts on a field might not evenly compare to casts on the beach under fishing conditions but they offer a much better basis for discussion than BS numbers pulled out of a guesstimate of what someone thinks they can cast filtered through what their Gran'Pappy useta tell 'em.

Thanks for the honest answer.

I only distance cast to be enhance my fishing opportunities. As I said, in casting tourneys I use my everyday fishing set-ups (13' factory HDX & Shimano PowerAero). I do cast fishing rigs with sim bait for measurement because I tie some unorthodox long distance rigs and how else do you find out if they work?

For instance, I fish for fluke at a particular New Jersey inlet and to reach the productive drop-off from the beach requires a 120+ yard cast . . . I fish a fishfinder rig, 5 ounce casting sinker on a swivel to roll and a 36"+ leader with a double hook set-up with strips cut from a rigging squid. Interested? The diagram for the rig is in my P&S album (http://pierandsurf.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=12387).

With this guy there's alot more to it. He wants numbers so he can brag. This is what I have seen through out this thread.:mad::mad:

I want numbers so this can be discussed in the practical, not theoretical.

It's amusing; you and rock apparently are gear heads too . . . What's the point in discussing engine mods and how much faster they have made your car if nobody ever posts what their time slips say? Now you wanna cry cause I post actual numbers?

Now you have numbers, say what you have to say.

I always knew what the number were . . . The numbers need no further commentary; they speak for themselves.

I dn't give a rats a$$ how far you cast or what you cast with. Your a braggart plain and simple.

You need a Kleenex?

Call me whatever you want, here, I'll give you some choices; obnoxious, arrogant, abrasive, accusatory and condescending, heck, I've even heard the tried and true A'HOLE . . . More than once believe it or not!

What I don't hear too often is that I'm just plain wrong.

I'm out....

I find it even more amusing you skip away sounding like Jam. . .

Buhhh-bye . . .

[9 rock]

QUOTE=Sgt_Slough

I want numbers so this can be discussed in the practical, not theoretical.

It's amusing; you and rock apparently are gear heads too . . . What's the point in discussing engine mods and how much faster they have made your car if nobody ever posts what their time slips say?

well I see you have posted #s of the tournoment but why dont you say which are yours
being that those #s are a football field away from tommy farmers I still dont see where it is relevent what you have said is all opinion with faceless facts if you add the 7-10% for braided line your still miles away give me true #s instead of hypothetical because the #s here based on other posters is not in your favor I dont see anyone trying to get to the distance of spinning tackle I clearly see it the other way around I have been to the outerbanks year after year and never see anyone come close to the guys throwing convetionals the same guys that out # spinning tackle throwers 10.1 easy why do you supposed that is there must be a reason why the guys who live there and fish there use coventionals . it simple to me I went from spinning to convetionals for extra distance and was rewarded for that change like most others here were.

show me #s with spinning reel with braid that get past 800ft

9rock

[Sgt_Slough]

well I see you have posted #s of the tournoment but why dont you say which are yours . . . <snip>

What are you talking about????

[Cdog]

For instance, I fish for fluke at a particular New Jersey inlet and to reach the productive drop-off from the beach requires a 120+ yard cast . . . I fish a fishfinder rig, 5 ounce casting sinker on a swivel to roll and a 36"+ leader with a double hook set-up with strips cut from a rigging squid. Interested? The diagram for the rig is in my P&S album (http://pierandsurf.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=12387).




Sgt, which photo?

[Sgt_Slough]

http://pierandsurf.com/photopost/data/500/up_n_over.JPG

This shows a big circle and a Breakaway Impact Lead but for flukin I use a Breakaway Imp clip and a tandem snell. The rig is constucted the same though. The top hanger is a #8 long shank hook with the point and barb cut off and crimped in place.

And now I think I see what Rock is talking about . . .

Is this it?

http://pierandsurf.com/photopost/data/500/Scores_Image.GIF

This was a casting tournament using fishing gear throwing fishing rigs.

Gary Born - Spinner
Mark Edwards -Spinner
Rod Smith - Spinner (me)

[9 rock]

What are you talking about????

I only distance cast to be enhance my fishing opportunities. As I said, in casting tourneys I use my everyday fishing set-ups

so I am assuming that your #s are in your album of the 2007 sportscast

I need hard #s not opionions because you know what they say about those

9rock

[Sgt_Slough]

The first "Fisherman's Casting Tournament" we held was in 2006 and a conventional caster (Connman) won the overall on that.

We had 4 events in that one (too much for one day) and the wind conditions made for some difficult casting.

The results are on the Sportcast board. Events without scores for some great casters are testament to how bad it was; either they kept blowing up or sending casts out of bounds (or just didn't want to flag).

http://www.longdistancecasting.forumflash.com/index.php?showtopic=571

Connman's post in that thread makes note of the conditions and what he did to overcome them. I am in his camp of slow oil!

[Sgt_Slough]

I only distance cast to be enhance my fishing opportunities. As I said, in casting tourneys I use my everyday fishing set-ups

so I am assuming that your #s are in your album of the 2007 sportscast

I need hard #s not opionions because you know what they say about those

9rock

My personal best in an actual Sportcast casting tourney was 655ft casting 125gm Off the Ground. My back doesn't let me cast pendulum.

The image in my album is of a "Fisherman's Casting Tournament" using fishing equipment throwing fishing rigs with simulated bait. A 3' Mr Twister was the "small bait" and a 6" sassy shad with the paddle cut off was the "large bait".

Edited to add:
I guess I should add a link to substantiate that claim. The tournament was the 2008 NE Regionals, April 26-27th 2008

See This Link (http://sportcastusa.blogspot.com/) and scroll down to "NE Casting Results Marlton NJ" in the 125gm results . . .

[9 rock]

By personal best in an actual Sportcast casting tourney was 655ft casting 125gm Off the Ground. My back doesn't let me cast pendulum.

The image in my album is of a "Fisherman's Casting Tournament" using fishing equipment throwing fishing rigs with simulated bait. A 3' Mr Twister was the "small bait" and a 6" sassy shad with the paddle cut off was the "large bait".


ok those are good #s but I hardly see those comparing with conventionals
I have looked at the uk results added in 10% and they are still not there.
so I have to say close yes as far no


9rock

[kingfisherman23]

Aight guys, let's calm it down a tad before someone says something they regret...

As for numbers, with a conventional and fishing line/rigs/simulated baits I'm throwing 112.6 yds (measured in August). A king anchor and pin-rigging line (25# and no shocker, don't judge me ;)) I'm putting up 126 yds. With tournament line and sinkers I'm just under 135.

Setup is a 525 Mag w/ HO mg upgrade and matched bearings mounted on an OMCP 12'. Cost: $268

Now with spinners: Braid/fishing rig/pyramid I can hit 85 yds consistently. King anchor and braid takes me to ~100, and tournament with mono ~90.

Setup: Okuma Stratus ST-50 on an OMCP 11'4". Cost: $210

That's me. I am by no means an experienced caster or someone that can post up I find that I can't control the release on a spinner as well as I can a conventional. Maybe a canon or a casting glove would improve my numbers a bit. But I'm learning a lot on my conventional setups and I really enjoy throwing them more than the spinner.

Evan

[Sgt_Slough]

ok those are good #s but I hardly see those comparing with conventionals
I have looked at the uk results added in 10% and they are still not there.
so I have to say close yes as far no


9rock

When have I ever said spinners are competitive with conventionals on the casting court?

I have only been discussing fishing distances with "fishing appropriate" tackle.

Let's take a trip in the way-back machine . . .

Well, first off if we are discussing fishing applications that is the wrong question / focus because, when was the last time someone landed a decent fish from 500+ feet with a tournament sized and tuned conventional spooled with tournament line?

I, and most guys who throw spinners in casting tournaments use what essentially are, everyday fishing set-ups. I use an off the shelf HDX with the fishing butt and a Shimano PowerAero reel. Mark Edwards' national record for spinning was set with an All Star 1508 built just like thousands of others by Hatteras Jacks and a Shimano Thunnus 16000.

There's the rub!

For every modification that a conventional tournament caster makes to go fishing, a significant reduction in distance potential is realized.

Why don't we tally the changes up? . . .
Be honest and fill in the blanks:

Fishing sized and tuned reel? --- MINUS _____ FEET
.35mm / .40mm line --- MINUS _____ FEET
Moving reel up the butt ---- MINUS _____ FEET



So I ask again, what are those costs to a tournament caster's "distance potential" when picking up and throwing "fishing appropriate" gear?

I am a slightly above average caster on the court (AA class), I am barely a threat to the AAA class (650 - 725 ft) and certainly will never be a threat to the Master class pendulum casters (725+ft) . . .

But we are talking FISHING . . . So the question isn't which throws furthest over grass; (or by how far does conventional tournament casting gear in the hands of the world's best casters out throw me and my spinner fishing gear) the question is, how many upper tier conventional tournament casters can put aside the tournament casting gear and still throw as far (or further) with a practical fishing conventional set-up (6500 / 7000 class reel tuned for fishing mounted up the butt spooled with 17lb mono etc)?

Far from being a braggart I'm actually asking, why am I so special?

What I've come up with is that modern spinners offer an advantage over conventional tackle for FISHING long distance.

I'm willing (and actually begging) to hear contrary evidence but I haven't in the 5 or so years I've been the Multiple Message Board Spinner A'hole.

MMBSA, I like the sound of that!

[Shooter]

Let's go this route,,,, why is it I can throw so much further at night than I can during the day time when I can see where the sinker lands :confused:

I know when I throw at night it just seems to go on and on and on :eek: I am guessing it has to do with the Moon and it's pull :rolleyes:

I just know I throw so much farther at night than I do during the daytime so all my distance casting will be done in the dark ;)

PS.. I have stood beside a few fellers at the Point and they were thrown spinners and getting just as far as everyone else and catching big drum.
(hated to admit that as hard a time as I love giving Sarge) :mad:

[AbuMike]

you crack me up.....:beer:

[9 rock]

Originally Posted by Sgt_Slough
Far from being a braggart I'm actually asking, why am I so special?

simple you are not you offer not reel proof that spinning gear is even equal never mind better that conventionals , do you ever even fish the point the coventional camp ground of the world I have seen guys throw out 8nbait 200 yrds with no problam some times I sit there in compleat disbelief and bringing in big fish to boot.

so I have to ask my self one question do I listen to a guy from phily or should I believe the thousands of guys I have seen in the obx its not a hard decision for me
the #s here support the covetionals also. so till I see differant not he said she said
I have no choice but to go with what I see . seeing is believing


9rock

[Cdog]

Originally Posted by Sgt_Slough
Far from being a braggart I'm actually asking, why am I so special?

simple you are not you offer not reel proof that spinning gear is even equal never mind better that conventionals , do you ever even fish the point the coventional camp ground of the world I have seen guys throw out 8nbait 200 yrds with no problam some times I sit there in compleat disbelief and bringing in big fish to boot.

so I have to ask my self one question do I listen to a guy from phily or should I believe the thousands of guys I have seen in the obx its not a hard decision for me
the #s here support the covetionals also. so till I see differant not he said she said
I have no choice but to go with what I see . seeing is believing


9rock
200 yards....LOL

[AbuMike]

200 yards....LOL

i can do it..............but only in the dark when no one can see me.....

[Sgt_Slough]

I have seen guys throw out 8nbait 200 yrds with no problam some times I sit there in compleat disbelief

PFFFFFFFT

Was that you taking a hit off your NOS???

There goes whatever credibility you had on this subject!


And there's why conventionals will always outcast spinners! LOL

[9 rock]

PFFFFFFFT

Was that you taking a hit off your NOS???

There goes whatever credibility you had on this subject!


And there's why conventionals will always outcast spinners! LOL

well I can tell you I throw 8nbait about 125 or so and some guy fly right by me with no problam of ocourse I dont have a tape but in any event much much farther than I have ever seen a spinning reel go in my 30yrs of fishing the point

I dont swim out with a tape purely a estamate I admit maybe not acurate but the song remains the same spinners are second class always have been aways will be run your mouth all you want that will never change

[dipnet]

Baitcaster vs Spinning reel for the surf......
What say you?

I like spinning and sometimes conventional. Mostly I like the fishing part. :fishing:

[9 rock]

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd189/ninerock/DSC00343.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd189/ninerock/DSC00077.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd189/ninerock/DSC00423.jpg
sgt
mabe if I am real lucky you will come down and show me how catch fish with these because certianly I know nothing about fishing



9rock

[TideJones]

Give me a cane pole and a can of worms and I can fish all day; catch fish, and have a great time.

[racewire20]

Poor orlandochuck (originator of this thread) must feel he lit a fuse!

Hey man, it's ok. Obviously they are brothers with different mothers!

[Sgt_Slough]

sgt
mabe if I am real lucky you will come down and show me how catch fish with these because certianly I know nothing about fishing

Here, I've started you on your way, you look like a better fisherman now:

1131

[Lip Ripper]

hahahaha, thats some funny stuff

[fish bucket]

well I can tell you I throw 8nbait about 125 or so and some guy fly right by me with no problam of ocourse I dont have a tape but in any event much much farther than I have ever seen a spinning reel go in my 30yrs of fishing the point

I dont swim out with a tape purely a estamate I admit maybe not acurate but the song remains the same spinners are second class always have been aways will be run your mouth all you want that will never change

you are the one running off at the mouth with your half baked opinions.
funny how all those 200 yd 8n baiters never show up at events where accurate measurments are taken!

[rocket]

What about the choking effect and friction caused by line spiraling off a spinning reel and hitting the first guide? I know there are combos that attempt to minimize this effect but I don't see how it can be completely eliminated. With a conventional I feel like the line "peels" off more smoothly and line slapping against guides is non-existant. For me, and just my opinion, I feel like this gives a clear advantage to the conventional if the only criteria is distance.

[9 rock]

Here, I've started you on your way, you look like a better fisherman now:

1131

I like things big certianly you can understand that

the invite is still there you are always welcome to come on down and
cast a few and catch a few

I am sleepy now I think I will go to bed and dream of getting to your level
modesty and knollage both of which out distance your casts oh thats rightQUOTE=Sgt_Slough
My back doesn't let me cast pendulum

have a nice night:)

[Cdog]

you crack me up.....:beer:
You are right,this has gotten down right funny.

My daddy always said don't show up to a gun fight with a knife.:D

[9 rock]

well I can tell you I throw 8nbait about 125 or so and some guy fly right by me with no problam of ocourse I dont have a tape but in any event much much farther than I have ever seen a spinning reel go in my 30yrs of fishing the point

I dont swim out with a tape purely a estamate I admit maybe not acurate but the song remains the same spinners are second class always have been aways will be run your mouth all you want that will never change

you are the one running off at the mouth with your half baked opinions.
funny how all those 200 yd 8n baiters never show up at events where accurate measurments are taken!

oh here we have another rocket scientist. would some one just please post just one piece of credible evedence where a spinning reel out cast a covetional with all this world of knollage that can not be that hard to do dont give cheap excueses give me facts untill then I would have to say based on the posts here there is only one conclusion that can be made coventionals cast big bait father period does not matter if it is 20ft 200ft 600ft who cares
the song remains the same I dont have to prove that it is proven day after day at the casting capital of the world the obx so bring it down there and prove it where it matters most in action .not in some little playground .

feel free to post all this proff of the spinning reels beating the convetionals

nite nite
9rock

[Sgt_Slough]

oh here we have another rocket scientist. would some one just please post just one piece of credible evedence where a spinning reel out cast a covetional with all this world of knollage that can not be that hard to do dont give cheap excueses give me facts untill then I would have to say based on the posts here there is only one conclusion that can be made coventionals cast big bait father period does not matter if it is 20ft 200ft 600ft who cares
the song remains the same I dont have to prove that it is proven day after day at the casting capital of the world the obx so bring it down there and prove it where it matters most in action .not in some little playground .

feel free to post all this proff of the spinning reels beating the convetionals

nite nite
9rock

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr328/Surf_Fishing_Guru/adf1eac4.jpg

[cockroachjr.]

One thing that I have noticed is that the weight of a conventional to spinner reel of comparative size is less. For example, a Penn 525 mag is about 18-19 oz and a daiwa sha is about 16oz verses a tica dolphin 8000 -9000 / 5000 daiwa emblem at ~23-24 oz. Except that Saltist is about the same...but damn that thing looks solid.....Anyway I would rather throw and hold a lighter set up...it helps me back feel good.

[SmoothLures]

Let me chime in here.

Does it really matter? No? Imagine that. Now let's all go fish.

[Jesse Lockowitz]

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr328/Surf_Fishing_Guru/adf1eac4.jpg

i love it.

LOL

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by Sgt_Slough
Far from being a braggart I'm actually asking, why am I so special?

simple you are not you offer not reel proof that spinning gear is even equal never mind better that conventionals , do you ever even fish the point the coventional camp ground of the world I have seen guys throw out 8nbait 200 yrds with no problam some times I sit there in compleat disbelief and bringing in big fish to boot.

so I have to ask my self one question do I listen to a guy from phily or should I believe the thousands of guys I have seen in the obx its not a hard decision for me
the #s here support the covetionals also. so till I see differant not he said she said
I have no choice but to go with what I see . seeing is believing


9rock


I've got to jump in here. The Cape Point legendary 200 yard 8nbait Hatteras Cast stories have been floating around for years. It just does not happen. It is easy to be impressed with the distance some of these guys throw, and 10 years ago i was a believer but trust me it just doesn't happen. A REALLY good 8nbait guy (see CDog above) will hit 400'. A GREAT 8nbaiter will come in around 450'. 500' would be damn impressive to me.

600' with a Hatteras Cast 8oz and a hunk of bunker ain't going to happen with the possible exception of a good caster and a 30mph tailwind.

Tommy

[RuddeDogg]

And..........circles are better than j's

And..........Braid is better than mono

And..........Ford is better that Chevy

And..........Dallas is better than Washington

And, and, and........AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[9 rock]

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr328/Surf_Fishing_Guru/adf1eac4.jpg

For me the casting setup showed a clear advantage.

Tommy
Round 1

Spinning – 371’
Casting – 445’

Round 2

Spinning – 375’
Casting – 471’

Round 3

Spinning 355’

I see tommy says 500ft may be tops for 8nbait so I will concead the 200

when you get out of that ditch call me end of discussion
9rock

[Sgt_Slough]

when you get out of that ditch call me end of discussion
9rock

Ok your new name is "end of discussion" . . .

I would have conceded that a 6500 Mag Elite would beat a Stradic with .35mm mono before the test.

In fact I'm surprised there wasn't more of a difference.

[9 rock]

Ok your new name is "end of discussion" . . .

I would have conceded that a 6500 Mag Elite would beat a Stradic with .35mm mono before the test.

In fact I'm surprised there wasn't more of a difference.

well I see that you have to have the last word no matter what the out come
tommy did not use a tuned reel he used straight out of the box 6500 mag
not the best of the bunch. I see you wont let it rest telling him you will send down your reels for test so I quess we will see when that happens but untill then the proff is in .

I would ask what else you know but I know that is everything

make sure you get the last word in now because I know you would not have it any other way thats why I played this stupid little game in the first place


see ya

9rock

[Tommy]

Guys,

It was just a few casts in the field. I'm not claiming the casting reel to be superior to the spinner across the board. Just that on this afternoon, with these two setups the casting came out on top.

It will be interseting to see how the high end super spinner with braid compares to the same tried and true 6500. I expect it to be very close.

More tests to come.

Tommy

[seajay]

Just a Southern thing. Why would one cast past were the fish are biting? And when did the OBX become the Surf Fishing Capital? It does not mater what others use as far as reel and rod type. If what you use works then use it. 9Rock I know alot of guys with 50,000.00$ Boats and Trucks , and still can not catch there own arse.:eek::beer::fishing:

[Fisher]

get yourself a nice 9-10 ft pole med-med hvy graphite pole ,put a reel you feel comfortable with & know it has more than enough line capacity to yeild a 40+lb fish.most of the time you should use a steel leader on your lure of choice.(real/fake) unless fishing for FTSE .then use a mono /floro leader. keep fishing.!:fishing:

[MacPE6]

Well, first off if we are discussing fishing applications that is the wrong question / focus because, when was the last time someone landed a decent fish from 500+ feet with a tournament sized and tuned conventional spooled with tournament line?

I haven't read the whole thread only the first page but Sgt S are you taking this personal?

Sounds like you are developing a battle plan for how to concur the conventional reels.

I the first page it was said that both spinners and conventional s have their place which I agree with. I use conventional for surf fishing because I like it and I am more comfortable with them. I have and use both when I yak, mostly spinners. Boating I use conventional for 99% of the time for catching non-bait fish and spinners of catching bait.

IMO both have their place and neither one stands out from other, both are needed.

Hand a conventional to an untrained conventional caster and you will have a mess hand that same person a spinner and they will catch a fish.

The only thing this thread has brought to light is that spinners have very little of a learning curve but the conventional is not the same.

Fish what you want because it's what you are comfortable with. I, as many on this site can, throw both and prefer the conventional but that is not an exclusive decision. If I can throw it with conventional I will and if not spinners will be put in place.

For the record Chevy, Dodge, Toyota and GM suck Ford rules.

[Lip Ripper]

nobody is making the claim that spinners are better than conventionals. thats a matter of preference. the only claim that i see is that if you need to cast you bait out as far as possible, the spinner is the better choice.
now i dont know which one is better for that specific purpose, and thats why i cant wait to see what happens when tommy gives sarges reel a try. i think the spinner will probably come out on top, but thats just my opinion.

[MacPE6]

To all ,

SHUT UP AN FISH!

:fishing::fishing::fishing:

[AbuMike]

.....:popcorn:......:beer:......:D

[Sgt_Slough]

I haven't read the whole thread only the first page but Sgt S are you taking this personal?
I have taken a position and I am ardently defending it. I enjoy persuasive writing and debate . . . If you think this topic is charged you oughta read me when I write on gun rights.

Sounds like you are developing a battle plan for how to concur the conventional reels.
I'm only relating my experiences with the two tackle types and explaining what is possible with new generation spinning tackle. As I've said before, the old paradigms have changed and "facts" that were unquestioned are now suspect. The "fact" that I enjoy attacking the most is that for fishing, "if ya need to get it out there, conventional is the only way to go . . ."

People extend the advantage conventionals have on the casting court to the beach and that just doesn't carry over.

So, it is not me developing a battle plan, it's me just recounting the battle, the battle is over . . . and that is evidenced by the lack of answers to my questions in this thread.

Hand a conventional to an untrained conventional caster and you will have a mess hand that same person a spinner and they will catch a fish.
Thank you for restating a primary point from my first post in this thread.

Plainly stated my position is that modern spinning tackle opens a door for fishermen of all talent and experience levels to a level of performance and more importantly, day in day out fishing consistency that conventional tackle just does not offer.


This discussion has reached the absurd level of people arguing that the inherent difficulties in using conventional gear are evidence of its superiority.

The only thing this thread has brought to light is that spinners have very little of a learning curve but the conventional is not the same.
Well, that would be an easy assumption to make . . . But just for fun let's have a little thought experiment . . .

Since Tommy can outcast me by about 200ft OTG on the court I fully expect Tommy to able to cast 50 feet further than me OTG with my braid loaded Shimano PowerAero on a fishing rod. That would put him over 700ft.

I would go so far as to argue that if he isn't well into the upper 700's OTG with a spinning FISHING set-up then perhaps casting a spinner to a high performance level is a bit more difficult than all of you think?

So, after repeatedly hearing about there being no "learning curve" for spinners and reading that spinning is the domain of talentless hacks am I taking it personal?

DAMN RIGHT I AM!!

We shall see won't we. . .

[9 rock]

Sgt_Slough

Ooooooohhhhh . . . wintertime fun thread!

My favorite discussion

I will say first that there are some techniques / tactics when a conventional gets the nod (livelining mullet/bunker/eels off a jetty comes to mind) but I am an advocate for the supremacy of spinning tackle for open beach fishing; . . . The stipulation being, I'm not talking about a Penn 7500SS and Ugly Stik. (NTTIAWWT)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt_Slough
Plainly stated my position is that modern spinning tackle opens a door for fishermen of all talent and experience levels:) to a level of performance and more importantly, day in day out fishing consistency that conventional tackle just does not offer.

Sgt_Slough
So, after repeatedly hearing about there being no "learning curve" for spinners and reading that spinning is the domain of talentless hacks am I taking it personal?



you cant have it both ways if you say all tallent you include little to no

distance with braid is the only valid point I have seen other than the ease of fishing with one .after several others have pointed out the benifits of coventionals in their points of veiw you revert to childish posting of pointless pics. :beer:

9rock

[Sgt_Slough]

you cant have it both ways if you say all tallent you include little to no

distance with braid is the only valid point I have seen other than the ease of fishing with one .after several others have pointed out the benifits of coventionals in their points of veiw you revert to childish posting of pointless pics. :beer:

9rock

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr328/Surf_Fishing_Guru/0c87094e.jpg

[9 rock]

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr328/Surf_Fishing_Guru/0c87094e.jpg

case and point

I hope you do a better job arguing gun control

9rock

[Sgt_Slough]

case and point

For once try to actually rebut one of my statements. You so mangle everything whether it be a quote or your reply it is difficult if not impossible to take anything you say seriously.

I hope you do a better job arguing gun control

Case in point, I said I argue gun RIGHTS. I think gun control laws are nothing more than OSHA regulations for violent criminals.

The Lounge is HERE (http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=22), start a thread if you feel froggy.

[Tommy]

I have taken a position and I am ardently defending it. I enjoy persuasive writing and debate . . . If you think this topic is charged you oughta read me when I write on gun rights.


I'm only relating my experiences with the two tackle types and explaining what is possible with new generation spinning tackle. As I've said before, the old paradigms have changed and "facts" that were unquestioned are now suspect. The "fact" that I enjoy attacking the most is that for fishing, "if ya need to get it out there, conventional is the only way to go . . ."

People extend the advantage conventionals have on the casting court to the beach and that just doesn't carry over.

So, it is not me developing a battle plan, it's me just recounting the battle, the battle is over . . . and that is evidenced by the lack of answers to my questions in this thread.


Thank you for restating a primary point from my first post in this thread.




This discussion has reached the absurd level of people arguing that the inherent difficulties in using conventional gear are evidence of its superiority.


Well, that would be an easy assumption to make . . . But just for fun let's have a little thought experiment . . .

Since Tommy can outcast me by about 200ft OTG on the court I fully expect Tommy to able to cast 50 feet further than me OTG with my braid loaded Shimano PowerAero on a fishing rod. That would put him over 700ft.

I would go so far as to argue that if he isn't well into the upper 700's OTG with a spinning FISHING set-up then perhaps casting a spinner to a high performance level is a bit more difficult than all of you think?

So, after repeatedly hearing about there being no "learning curve" for spinners and reading that spinning is the domain of talentless hacks am I taking it personal?

DAMN RIGHT I AM!!

We shall see won't we. . .

Suddenly I feel used....lol

Sarge i think we are a little closer than 200' apart on the field (If I remember correctly you are well into the 600's). I'm trying to do this without bias and I really don't know what to expect.

High 700's??? You may be disappointed. With my primary tournament rod and favorite reel in calm conditions I struggle to hit high 700's consistantly. I define high 700's as anything over about 770'.

When you start pushing past 750 each and every foot is hard earned, casting or spinning.

Tommy

[9 rock]

For once try to actually rebut one of my statements. You so mangle everything whether it be a quote or your reply it is difficult if not impossible to take anything you say seriously.



Case in point, I said I argue gun RIGHTS. I think gun control laws are nothing more than OSHA regulations for violent criminals.

The Lounge is HERE (http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=22), start a thread if you feel froggy.

I have reputed many of you statements such as fighting ability . left hand right hand retrieve. weight of reel and a few others I will agree to disagree on those . I don't have a need to force my opinion on anybody I am as you are entitled to my beliefs. your stance has been that spinning reels are superior I don't see that and many others don't either. does that make us right and you wrong ? no there my be no definitive answer but only opinions

now gun rights gun control tomato tomato .I do agree on your view there


9rock

[croaker]

Makes the winter pass by quicker.

I throw spinner only, because my shoulder is shot. I throw spinner because I like to fish. I like to fish because it relaxes me. Anything beyond that is too complicated and too much work. Just .02 from an average fishman....

[jhmorgan]

I got one for ya if you want a challenge on distance AND ease of operation: THE LONG ROD (fly setup)

[eric]

wow.. i wish to be able to put out bait 150yards on 5-6oz let alone 8oz at 200... . .
even 175 is hard enough to do with a FT pendulum with a baited rig..
and yes,, ive tried it. lol

[AL_N_VB]

yup..the winter duldrums have set in...Glad I'm fishin' and not arguin' over the internet.

Remember..

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

[basstardo]

And..........Ford is better that Chevy


At least someone in here has some sense! :beer:

Flame on! :D:p:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn: