A travesty!!!

[sprtsracer]

I am appalled!!! First, click here:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090206/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/obama_guantanamo

Let me preface this by stating that my best friend, and his sister, who is also a close friend, lost a family member on the USS Cole. Saundra Flanagan was the Mother of Kevin Shaun Rux...don't forget that name! His uncle and Saundra's brother (and my best friend) is Bud Flanagan. They both live in the Clarksburg, WV area, with Saundra living in Bridgeport. I knew Kevin and met him when he was on leave in the Clarksburg area. He was a stand-up guy and a patriot! Kevin was sitting in the mess hall on board the USS Cole when the explosion went off, and slammed his body up into the steel plate ceiling, crushing him, and killing him instantly! He was serving his country at the time. When I say "country, that means YOU and ME! There was a flagpole erected in Saundra's yard and some butthole(s) tore it down! To the city's credit, they replaced it at the city's expense. Now, we have this!!! Saundra is in Washington now to meet with the President tomorrow afternoon. I wonder what he is going to say to her! Let me tell you guys something...you never know how close to home it can hit until it does! The only thing I can tell you is this:

After receiving an email from Bud letting me know what was going on, I hopped on the phone. I called Sen. Nelson's office and Sentaor Martinez's office and let them know my displeasure. I then went to the White House Office web site and called the listed number. To say I was treated like a second class citizen is an understatement, even after explaining that I was a retired Army Officer and why I was calling, as well as my relationship with the relatives of Kevin Rux! I had to call back FIVE TIMES to get someone to listen. This is after quoting their website, which stated that "President Obama is committed to having the most open and acessible administration in the History of the US"! Bullcrap!!! The last lady I spoke with, bless her heart, was very sympathetic, and gave me the President's Fax Number! Here it is: Address it to "The President" at 1-202-456-2461 and I plan to fax a very lengthy letter voicing my displeasure at the way this is being handled. If you feel the same way, I would encourage you to do the same. This sucks, and is a let-down to all veterans and their families!!! The "honeymoon" is over!!! The President will now be held accounbtable for all of his actions or we will have a change of administration the next time the polls open! For those of you who think this is "too early...think again!!! He has now shown his true colors, as has Pelosi and Reid. Enjoy it while you can guys...you have less than 4 years left!!!

[Al Kai]

This is a travesty indeed. I will also send some emails and make a few phone calls as well.

[sprtsracer]

Well...here's the latest!

"President Barack Obama has told relatives of victims of the bombing of the USS Cole and the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks that his most important responsibility is keeping the U.S. safe.

Obama met with about 40 family members on Friday. The White House says he explained why he believes closing the U.S. detention center in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, will make the country safer and ensure justice for the terror suspects being held there.

Obama is concerned that terror suspects have been held for years without trial. He has signed an executive order to close the facility within a year.
One woman who attended the meeting says Obama assured them he wants the same thing they do _ justice for their loved ones."

In the words of the "Church Lady" from Saturday Night Live; Well, Isn't that SPECIAL!!!

I am currently accepting donations of food, candy, books, and anything else you can afford, so that we can send these items to the poor terror suspects unjustly detained in Guantanimo! Please, if you have anything you would like to send, PM me. In the meantime, if you have extra copies of the Koran that we might send to our poor mis-informed guards there, so that they may learn the "truth", send those along as well...and maybe some EPA suits to protect them from the feces that these poor unfortunate detainees are throwing at them!!! I've HAD IT!!!

[sprtsracer]

After the phone calls, here's my EMAIL: This one to Sen. Martinez. A similar one went to Sen. Nelson, minus the Republican Reference!:


"Like MOST Floridians, I STRONGLY oppose the "so called" economic stimulus bill" as it is currently written. From what I can see, there are absolutely NO provisions for "short term" stimulous to the economy, and, in fact, it appears to be nothing more than PORK!!! Creating "government jobs" WILL NOT do anything to get this economy going again! I can assure you that we Floridians are VERY CLOSELY watching your vote on this bill, and I will personally go over the final bill very carefully and point out every piece of PORK that is included to everyone that I know! This is OUR money (and even our great grandchildren's money) that you are playing with, and we don't take it lightly! I have every bit of confidence in you as a Republican that you will vote against this. Please do not bow to the pressures of your colleagues or the "rush to compromise"! Vote accordingly and vote your conscience!!! Sincerely, Larry J. Morgan"

[sprtsracer]

THEN and NOW!

Nearly 60 views and no comments except for mine and Al's...BUT...a lot of comments about someone smoking pot on another thread!!!

Lest we forget...at the memorial service...a LOT of rhetoric!!! WHERE IS THE "BACK-UP" Mr. President??? This is from October 2000!!!

"Norfolk Ceremony Memorializes 17 Sailors Killed in Attack on USS Cole

The search for the perpetrators will be unending, Clinton says
By Wendy S. Ross

Washington File Staff Writer



Washington -- The United States will find the perpetrators of the
October 12 terrorist attack on the USS Cole in Yemen that killed some
17 U.S. sailors and injured many others, President Clinton and top
U.S. military officials say.


Speaking October 18 at a moving memorial ceremony at Virginia's
Norfolk Naval Base, home port of the USS Cole, Clinton said: "To those
who attacked them we say, you will not find a safe harbor. We will
find you and justice will prevail. America will not stop standing
guard for peace or freedom or stability in the Middle East and around
the world."


Secretary of Defense Bill Cohen said: "To those who organized and
orchestrated this barbarous act, you are on notice that our search for
you will be relentless, that America will not rest until we find you
and the long arm of justice reaches out, however long, however far,
and makes you pay for this crime."


And General Henry H. Shelton, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
warned those "who perpetrated this act of terror," that "America's
memory is long and our reach longer."

The memorial service was held at the Naval Station's Pier 12. Nearby
were two of the Cole's sister ships, the destroyers USS Ross and USS
McFaul, flanked by the aircraft carriers USS Enterprise and USS Dwight
D. Eisenhower.


Several thousand people -- including seven wounded sailors in
wheelchairs -- attended the service.


Hundreds of U.S. sailors stood at attention on the decks of the nearby
ships, as Clinton and top U.S. military officials spoke.


"All these very different Americans, all with their different stories,
their life lines and their love ties, answered the same call of
service and found themselves on the USS Cole headed for the Persian
Gulf where our forces are working to keep peace and stability in a
region that could explode and disrupt the entire world," Clinton said.


Reading aloud the name of each of the deceased sailors, Clinton said:
"In the names and faces of those we lost and mourn, the world sees our
nation's greatest strength -- people in uniform rooted in every race,
creed and region on the face of the Earth, yet bound together by a
common commitment to freedom, and a common pride in being Americans.
That same spirit is living today as the crew of the USS Cole pulls
together in a determined struggle to keep the determined warrior
afloat.


"The idea of common humanity and unity amidst diversity, so purely
embodied by those we mourn today, must surely confound the minds of
the hate-filled terrorists who killed them," Clinton said.


"They envy our strength without understanding the values that give us
strength, for, for them, it is their way or no way: their
interpretation, twisted though it may be, of a beautiful religious
tradition; their political views; their racial and ethnic views --
their way or no way.


"Such people can take innocent life. They have caused your tears and
anguish, but they can never heal or build harmony or bring people
together. That is work only free, law-abiding people can do; people
like the sailors of the USS Cole."


Also attending the ceremony were First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton,
Attorney General Janet Reno, and the Clinton's daughter Chelsea.


Before and after the service, Clinton met privately with the injured
sailors, and visited with family members of the dead and missing
sailors, pausing to spend a few minutes with each family.


(The Washington File is a product of the Office of International
Information Programs, U.S. Department of State. Web site:
http://usinfo.state.gov)

[Cdog]

Are you smoking Pot?

This thread is all over the place, first post a travesity.

I didn't read anywhere in the link you provided that Obama had pardoned all the "detainees".

Then you post about the stimilus package, and now bringing former president clinton into it.

OK, I think everybody on the boards understands you are hard core right wing.

So was there any other point?

Or am I somehow missing yours?

[sprtsracer]

Are you smoking Pot?

This thread is all over the place, first post a travesity.

I didn't read anywhere in the link you provided that Obama had pardoned all the "detainees".

Then you post about the stimilus package, and now bringing former president clinton into it.

OK, I think everybody on the boards understands you are hard core right wing.

So was there any other point?

Or am I somehow missing yours?

I brought Clinton into it because he spoke at the memorial in October 2000. The appropriate passages in the quote are in bold print, which are in direct contrast to President Obama's actions. That's the reason I cited it. As for the so called stimulous package legislation, that was taking place at the same time, and that, too, is a travesty. In other words, he cancels the trial of an international terrorist who murdered 17 of our sailors and at the same time, he was pushing PORK through Congress. The relationship between the two is inferred in the last few sentences of my original post. As far as being "hard core right wing", nothing could be further from the truth. I am, however, a conservative. There is a BIG difference.

[sprtsracer]

Uhhhhhhhhh...we have a "LOTTERY" for this now??? What the hell is going on??? There were 17 Sailors who were killed, and they have a LOTTERY to decide WHO attends!!! I'm sorry, but are they so broke that they can't afford to send all 17 families??? Oh, but wait...it's OK to push a bill through that allows a damn golf course and pays for it, or research for STD's, or Birth Control!!! MY ASS!!! Here it is in first person, guys...your government at work! Lottery MY ASS!!! No money available to send them to Cuba, BUT...it's OK to pay for some PORK!!! This gripes my ass, and CDOG...here's your answer!!! This is the actual government email to a family from the USS Cole!!!

From: saundra28@verizon.net> To: srkttm2@aol.com> Sent: Sat, 7 Feb 2009 1:00 am> Subject: Fwd: News from Military Commissions (U)> > > > > >

Feb 6, 2009 02:12:07 PM, Karen.Loftus@osd.mil wrote:> > UNCLASSIFIED> > Dear COLE families,> > >

Yesterday, the President extended an invitation to certain 9/11 and USS COLE> families to attend a meeting with him at the White House today.> > I'd like to introduce you to my Deputy, Mr. John Gerardo. John is an> attorney with litigation experience in numerous legal fields. I have cc'd> him on this email so that you have his email address. John can be reached> at 703-695-0805; blackberry 703-901-7523.> > As you are aware from last week's email, the prosecution requested 120-day> continuances in all military commissions cases at the request of the new> Administration. The requests for continuances were designed to allow the> Administration to determine the path forward, which could include resumption> of military commissions under the current law or under new law or> procedures, transfer of cases to federal court or courts-martial, or> decisions not to prosecute at all.> > Al Nashiri, the sole accused charged for his role in the USS COLE bombing,> was to be arraigned in court at Guantanamo Bay on February 9, 2009. At> arraignment, the accused is formally advised of the charges, informed of his> right to counsel, and provided the opportunity to enter a plea (which is> typically deferred because of pretrial motions that follow).> > Judge Pohl, the military judge presiding over al Nashiri's case, denied the> government's request for a continuance on January 29. In his ruling, he> wrote that granting the continuance would not serve the best interests of> justice, and that the public interest in a speedy trial would be harmed by> the delay in the arraignment. > > Because of its understanding of the President's intent that no proceedings> occur, an intent reinforced by the Secretary of Defense's directive to the> Chief Prosecutor, the prosecution asked the Convening Authority to withdraw> the charges against Al Nashiri, and she did so late yesterday evening. This> will have no impact on the prosecution's ability to charge Al Nashiri again.> > We had selected five of you, through our random number generating software> program, to attend the arraignment with us in GTMO, and while that> proceeding obviously will not occur this month, those individuals retain> their priority in the event of future proceedings.> > The Al Nashiri prosecution team will not stop working while the> Administration studies the commissions process. They will continue to> prepare this important and complex prosecution, confident that their efforts> will bring justice at their conclusion. We renew our pledge to keep you> informed and will update you when we have more information to convey to you.> As always, please feel free to contact us.> >

Karen V. Loftus> CAPT, USNR (Ret)>
Victim Witness Liaison> Office of the Chief Prosecutor>
Office of Military Commissions>
703-695-0869>
Blackberry 1-571-309-4277>
Email: Karen.Loftus@osd.mil>

Oh...and by the way, I tried to call "good ole' John yesterday and he wasn't answering his damn phone!!! There was no answering machine or any way to leave a message either!!!

May I also add that you are privy to some info here that is not available to the general public. I have the permission of the family!!!

[Darbyman]

Point #1- I agree with you that the latest Cole news is ridiculous, it really ticks me off that charges are dropped.

Point #2- He (Al Nas...whatever) is not free and will be charged agian. So I'm hoping this whole thing does a 180.

Point#3- Yes, slick willy is an idiot, and so is the new guy.

Point#4- Closing Gitmo is easy. Bullets are cheap, so what's the problem?

The stimulus thing is full of junk but I hope there is enough good in it to make it work. I feel the frustration but I would say you'd better get used to it, America is going to reap what is has sewn at the election.

To all the lefties- I sincerely hope I'm wrong about the new guy, or else we're all in trouble.

[emanuel]

Larry, I like you even though we don't see eye to eye on alot of things politically but you're all over the place with this arguement.

[sprtsracer]

Larry, I like you even though we don't see eye to eye on alot of things politically but you're all over the place with this arguement.

Emanuel...I like you too, and in fact, I like everyone else on here as well, and my political views have nothing to do with friendship or with my relationship with the other members of this board, but the PROBLEM is that we have a PRESIDENT that is "ALL OVER THE PLACE"...not me!!! All of you have to understand that this hits VERY close to home...that Kevin was a friend, and that his family is VERY close. Also understand that I went through this with the family, starting the day of the bombing, when we didn't even know what Kevin's status was. The only thing we knew was that he was on board the ship! These were (and are) my friends! I sat in their living room with them when the final news came! I listened to Clinton when he promsed to catch the bastards, and I've spent countless hours with the family when they had their hopes up when the bastard was caught! I talk to the family 2 - 3 times per week! I can assure you that this family feels let down by their government (and their current President) and that's all I'll say at this time! This is PERSONAL!!! The only other thing I can say is that it's also personal to 16 other families of which I have no knowledge. It's more personal to them than it is to me. They lost husbands, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, etc.! If you or others think that I am "all over the place" on this, then the only thing I can say is that maybe we should ALL be "all over the place"!!! There's a lot more at stake here, and we have a President that, in my opinion, is attempting to change the entire history of the US, and convert us...little by little...whittle and whittle...to a European Socialist form of government. I'll wait and let him prove it on his own, but I fully reserve the right to point it out when it happens and to call this thread back up and say "I told you so" at the appropriate time, but I'll do it in a PM! It may be 2 months, 6 months, or maybe even 2 years, but it will happen. In the meantime, whether the folks on here want to listen or not, I will continue to point out certain things, and to dissent when necessary! If they want to listen, that's fine. If not, then that's fine too, but they can't say it was never mentioned to them! Now couple that with the fact that I retired from the US Army, and MAYBE you'll understand!!! If not, then whoever doesn't understand probably never served. I ABSOLUTELY respect everyones views on here, but you should first place yourselves in the other person's shoes. I have see a lot of hurt and disappointment with this family, and it's something I'll never forget!!!

[OBX_Nomad]

Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said Crawford withdrew the charges against al-Nashiri. However, new charges can be brought again later, and al-Nashiri will remain in prison for the time being.

"It was her decision, but it reflects the fact that the president has issued an executive order which mandates that the military commissions be halted, pending the outcome of several reviews of our operations down at Guantanamo," Morrell said late Thursday night.

The ruling also gives the White House time to review the legal cases of all 245 terror suspects held there and decide whether they should be prosecuted in the U.S. or released to other nations.

Nobody has been set free and charges can be brought if needed. It's called justice and if you don't like the process perhaps you should go to a nation that doesn't practice it.

[sprtsracer]

Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said Crawford withdrew the charges against al-Nashiri. However, new charges can be brought again later, and al-Nashiri will remain in prison for the time being.

"It was her decision, but it reflects the fact that the president has issued an executive order which mandates that the military commissions be halted, pending the outcome of several reviews of our operations down at Guantanamo," Morrell said late Thursday night.

The ruling also gives the White House time to review the legal cases of all 245 terror suspects held there and decide whether they should be prosecuted in the U.S. or released to other nations.

Nobody has been set free and charges can be brought if needed. It's called justice and if you don't like the process perhaps you should go to a nation that doesn't practice it.

I'm staying right where I am, and I fought to be here!!! I've already been in those "other nations" at the behest of the President at the time! Where the hell have you been??? Don't get "self righteous" on me!!! You have no right to!!! How Dare You!!! I don't want to hear that crap from someone who knows NOT what he is talking about! This started out as a thread about a sailor who was murdered, along with 16 of his comrades!!! and his "killer" who had his trial cancelled! IF YOU PLAN ON DEFENDING THE SOB, MAYBE YOU SHOULD GO SOMEWHERE ELSE...possibly FRANCE...where it's more acceptible!!! Do NOT even attempt to call my hand on this, as YOU have no right to, nor do you have any standing to do so!!! Maybe YOU would like to correspond with the family and explain to THEM why you think maybe THEY should move to another country. After all, this family doesn't see the "justice" either! Maybe you could teach them a lesson, huh??? Where the HELL do you get off??? Do you have ANY clue what this family is going through??? Maybe you can explain it to me in a PM! Take it there!!!

[OBX_Nomad]

Actually I spent '68 - '69 in Binh Thuy, Vietnam so don't give me that $hit that I know not of what I talk about, or that you have more right to speak your mind than the rest of us.

The facts are the facts. If you can't hack them then so be it.

[BubbaHoTep]

. . . . In other words, he cancels the trial of an international terrorist who murdered 17 of our sailors and at the same time, he was pushing PORK through Congress. . . . .

Hey sprts, it appalls me, too, and even though some of us might not agree with it, the President-elect’s #1 “priority” repeated over and over before his Inauguration was to do something about the economy. Whether or not this stimulus bill is the answer to that is going to be debated for some time on Capitol Hill, in the media, and no doubt on this board. I guess what I’m saying is that, even though I don’t agree with the path he’s taking, I am not surprised by it in the least. I cannot imagine what the families and loved ones must be feeling right now.


. . . . This gripes my ass. . . .

LOL That is a WONDERFUL expression, by the way.


. . . . It's called justice and if you don't like the process perhaps you should go to a nation that doesn't practice it.

Well, if one terrorist escapes punishment, then there has been no justice. As far as the suggestion that people go elsewhere if they don’t like something, I would encourage you to embrace others and try to respect the differences among individuals so that everyone can feel a sense of empowerment and high self-esteem. How was that? Did my sensitivity conditioning work? Am I truly ready for the new Millennium? LOL Seriously, dude, where did the “if you don’t like it get out” mentality come from, and where did sprts say he has more “right” to speak his mind than you, I, or anyone else on this board? Clearly, this issue hits home with him and many others (especially the families of the sailors), and it’s apt to hit home with more people if these terrorists get off the hook. Nomad, I thought the first three paragraphs of your post were excellent, but can’t go along with the “you should go” somewhere else part. As for your service in Nam, I say “thank you,” as I do to all our servicemen. :)

[virginia boy 1]

LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER. When Hollywood appoints a president, do you really expect him not to be an actor? Acting is theatrical lying.



http://libertarianleprechaun.com/Statue_of_Liberty_Libertarian_75pct.gif

[OBX_Nomad]

Bubba, no terrorist has excaped justice OR been released. He's still being detained and is subject to a trial. So, all this belly-aching by S'racer is over nothing, just another way for him to spout his rhetoric. The only travesty that's has been is what dubya did to our nation over the last eight years.


I don't want to hear that crap from someone who knows NOT what he is talking about! (these are s'racers words, not mine.)

[SGT.Bunghole]

Nearly 60 views and no comments except for mine and Al's...BUT...a lot of comments about someone smoking pot on another thread!!!

It was actually about a police officer who was killed, locally, and a man who was convicted for it. It was not about smoking pot.

Sorry to have taken away from thread or whatever.

I am done posting on this site, goodbye.

[emanuel]

Ok, I think everyone needs to cool off before some time outs are handed out.

[sprtsracer]

Bubba, no terrorist has excaped justice OR been released. He's still being detained and is subject to a trial. So, all this belly-aching by S'racer is over nothing, just another way for him to spout his rhetoric. The only travesty that's has been is what dubya did to our nation over the last eight years.


I don't want to hear that crap from someone who knows NOT what he is talking about! (these are s'racers words, not mine.)

1. Charges can also still be dropped.

2. My so-called "belly-aching" is certainly NOT over "nothing". It's based on what has been daily contact with the family since this started.

3. My comment about your not knowing what you are talking about refers to the fact that you have NOT been in touch with the family and has nothing to do with your service record.

4. We were in Vietnam during the same period.

[redneckranger]

Sprts I have respect you for you man. We may not see eye to eye but we have butted heads and stood on the same ground on various topics, but as a strict construtionist i gotta blast ya on this one.


Conservatives and Liberals are the reason we are in this economic mess, not just one side over the other they both are guiltier than satan and should be drug into the streets and shot on site.

This BS that Liberals are evil or that Conservatives are the second coming of Hitler NEEDS TO STOP RIGHT NOW!!.

These Terrorist, I hate to say this should be afforded the same rights that You, Me, or ANYONE living on American Soil would be offered a speedy trial, due process, a jury to find them guilty, why should we give them this is simple we are better than holding them in a cell day in day out without a trial. This is one of the major tennants that our country was founded on.
We have not done this the conservatives when they had the White House were happy to throw away the key. The Liberals have had the Congress for what 6 years now!!! and they did nothing.


As far as the economy goes "do you know what the scariest phrase in the english language goes I'm from the government and I'm here to help"(Reagan).
But the Conservatives are just as guilty for giving tax breaks then government money to the greediest people on the face of this planet.


Honestly you show me somebody you is a straight Republican or a straight Democrat and I'll show you someone who have they're citizenship revoked

[sprtsracer]

Sprts I have respect you for you man. We may not see eye to eye but we have butted heads and stood on the same ground on various topics, but as a strict construtionist i gotta blast ya on this one.


Conservatives and Liberals are the reason we are in this economic mess, not just one side over the other they both are guiltier than satan and should be drug into the streets and shot on site.

This BS that Liberals are evil or that Conservatives are the second coming of Hitler NEEDS TO STOP RIGHT NOW!!.

These Terrorist, I hate to say this should be afforded the same rights that You, Me, or ANYONE living on American Soil would be offered a speedy trial, due process, a jury to find them guilty, why should we give them this is simple we are better than holding them in a cell day in day out without a trial. This is one of the major tennants that our country was founded on.
We have not done this the conservatives when they had the White House were happy to throw away the key. The Liberals have had the Congress for what 6 years now!!! and they did nothing.


As far as the economy goes "do you know what the scariest phrase in the english language goes I'm from the government and I'm here to help"(Reagan).
But the Conservatives are just as guilty for giving tax breaks then government money to the greediest people on the face of this planet.


Honestly you show me somebody you is a straight Republican or a straight Democrat and I'll show you someone who have they're citizenship revoked

I couldn't agree with you more as far as the necessity of the "Partisan" politics coming to an end! However:

1. These prisoners in GITMO have NEVER lived on American soil...(although some did for a short time in order to get their "flight training"!). GITMO is a military base in CUBA... and these poor oppressed souls were CAPTURED in a WAR ZONE...and were bent on KILLING U.S. Troops! Furthermore, they are receiving FAR BETTER TREATMENT than they would receive in their home countries. They would have been executed WITHOUT a trial there. You are talking countries here where a woman is BEHEADED for committing adultery.

2. So unless you are a "moderate", or an "Independent", you should have your citizenship revoked??? Dang, I thought we had a TWO PARTY system here (my apologies to the third party people).

3. Let's see...which party is giving GOVERNMENT money (translation...MY money and YOUR money!) to the "greediest people on the face of the planet"? These bills came out of a democrat controlled Congress! Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac...Barney Frank, Christopher Dodd, etc. etc. etc.! No "oversight, etc. etc. etc.!

4. "Principles our country was founded on"? Take a look at history! Go back to the Revolutionary War. I don't recall EVER reading where British Troops were read their rights after being captured. Disregarding everything else in between ( War of 1812, Spanish American War, WWI, etc. which also backs up what I am saying)...FAST FORWARD to the Nuremburg War Crimes Trials. These were "Military Tribunals"! Since when should an infantryman or a cavalry scout or a paratrooper, or whoever else on the battlefield, have to advise his/her enemy of their rights and follow all the procedures of US Criminal Law? Should they be required to do that now? What a few people don't understand is that we are dealing with people who are absolutely committed to the destruction of the United States...even to the point of committing suicide if it means killing a few Americans, or Israelis, or __________ (insert name here). They are committed to fulfilling the coming of the 12th Imam (look it up) to the detriment of their own religion, and will twist the Koran to mean whatever they want it to, to satisfy their own evil end. This guy was lucky he wasn't killed on the spot! They rave against our system and say it's evil, but at the same time, they use it to their own advantage. They see ANY attempt to reconcile or negotiate as a sign of WEAKNESS. Drastic times call for drastic measures (don't believe me? same justification Pelosi and Reid and Obama are using for the stimulous package)! Oh...however...after watching yesterday evening's press conference, Obama has NOT ruled out prosecuting President Bush or members of his staff, and Sen. Leahy is pushing for that to be done, while the "messiah" has suspended the Tribunal for a murderer! I suppose that is OK, though..."New World Order" and "Change We Can Believe In"! I'm not sure who "WE" is, but I know it doesn't include me! I don't believe in this kind of change, and never will. I remember when Kennedy met with Krushchev and walked away with his tail between his legs. Those of you who are old enough remember, know that it lead to the Cuban Missile Crisis, and I never worked so hard in my life as when I helped my Dad build a "fallout shelter" with solid concrete blocks in our basement. The problem is, so many of us have VERY short memories, we don't study History, and we don't LEARN FROM IT! We easily tire of fighting people, so we just give up in the name of PEACE! Our adversaries are aware of that, and use it to their advantage as well. Look at HISTORY again, Vietnam being just ONE example. These guys are no different...and in fact...they are WORSE! I can assure you that if you were alone with this idiot, he would just as soon kill you (and your entire family, for that matter) as he would spit on the floor, simply because you are an American. Maybe, however, you can explain to all of us, exactly, what we would accomplish by either letting him go, cancelling his tribunal, giving him all the rights we enjoy, and/or treating him with the same respect we would give to a REAL AMERICAN CITIZEN! Would we "convert" him? Would we have the rest of the world suddenly realize we are "good people"? Would we all of a sudden command "respect" from the terrorists? Would we strengthen our position? Would we be safer? Or would we simply feel we were "right" while at the same time, we found ourselves in a position of being at the mercy of a bunch of thugs, and in fear of yet another attack?

5. "Speedy Trial"?...that just went out the window as a result of an order from President Obama! The Tribunal was CANCELLED, so now, the prosecutors have to start out from scratch! If this bum gets away for any reason, the most likely will be on a "speedy trial motion".

6. On the "tax break" question...that has been, and will be, debated forever. Suffice it to say that if you want a "stimulous", then 1) people have to have money to spend 2) corporations have to have money to spend (i.e. to hire more people and to expand). You do not accomplish that by raising taxes and/or mortgaging the future of our grandchildren and great grandchildren by committing them, even before they are born, to pay higher taxes in order to fund the whims of the US Congress as it is constituted today. You also do not get that by expanding the role of government and creatinbg more government jobs. Maybe, however, you can point out to me exactly what the US Government does to contribute to the Gross National Product. Maybe I'm missing something, but exactly WHAT does the government produce, sell, and/or export?

I know MANY of you disagree with me on here...which is your right to do so. But PLEASE start thinking for yourselves, rather than listening to the rhetoric, and by that I mean, from ALL sides of the arguement! Start doing the simple math, read up on history, and don't listen to the "pie in the sky" promises from anyone, regardless of party. That's what I have done, and I respect your opinion, so please respect mine. Maybe you'll come to a different conclusion than me. Maybe you'll agree, but I can tell you one thing...you'll be more knowledgeable about what's going on around you and what is REALLY happening, versus what the "spin doctors" are saying. Make no mistake, folks! We are in trouble, and we are in trouble on more than just the economic front.