10' Castable Shark Rig, R/C Style...

[Railroader]

Here ya go...I combined several ideas into one VERY well working rig. Over grass, deployment is 100%, over about 20 casts except the one time I threw it into a tree....

The supplies:

10' .080 Weedeater cord.

Berkley size 6, 210lb. crimp sleeves, crushed slightly in a vise, for pass-thru.

1 Eagle Claw L-197 (I think) 2/0 circle, cut off behind the barb.

The Directions and Photos...

From the top, slide the hook thru the sleeve, and crimp onto the line, 4' from one end, hook eye to the bottom.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/Rob69/IMG_1777.jpg


Crimp on your top swivel...Done with the top.

From the bottom, slide on a big Coast Lock swivel, and crimp on another sleeve, 8" from the end of the line.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/Rob69/IMG_1778.jpg

Crimp on the hook of your choice, Eagle Claw 10/0 Sea Circle in this case...Done with the bottom.

Here's what you'll be casting, 4' of cord up top, with a very manageable 6' drop. The bait will ride the slipstream of the sinker(s), but will allow Jaws to pick up the bait with no resistance, since it slides on the rig.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/Rob69/IMG_1779.jpg

The finished rig.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/Rob69/IMG_1776.jpg

In the event that it does not deploy, your opponent on the other end will deploy it for you, on his first hard run. (hard run was simulated by pulling against the hook secured to the bumper of my truck.)

[AtlantaKing]

So basically, the rig coils up the excess line and leaves a regular fishfinder rig + a few feet of line, right?

I'm thinking that the addition of an impact shield to replace the cut down hook would ensure 100% deployment, plus ensure that your hands don't get cut up by the cut down hook when leadering a fish.

[Railroader]

So basically, the rig coils up the excess line and leaves a regular fishfinder rig + a few feet of line, right?

I'm thinking that the addition of an impact shield to replace the cut down hook would ensure 100% deployment, plus ensure that your hands don't get cut up by the cut down hook when leadering a fish.


Right! You have a coil of line up top, when you cast....and a "normal" albeit BIG, fishfinder, on bottom.

Impact shield, huh??? Not a bad idea...;)

[Cdog]

Prolly a stupid question since you are already casting a big bait but dosen't the coil cut down on aerodynamics?What sorta distance are you getting with the rig. I have used th pulley rig but even with that was only getting about 50-60yrds.

[Railroader]

Not a dumb question at all.

With my rig, an 8 oz. and a 5 oz. Lacrosse ball for simulated bait, my distance is in the neighborhood of 275' to 300'.

Aerodynamics doesn't seem to matter as much as brute force, when trying to cast a 1 pound payload...:D

Just so y'all know, the reel's a 545 knobby full to the gills of #40 Big Game, 80# Ande shock leader, and an OM-12H.

[nine ought]

well posted railroader! Good job. I would of never thought of using weed eater line for shark leaders! I'm with FA on this one very BIBLE WORTHY.

[AtlantaKing]

Right! You have a coil of line up top, when you cast....and a "normal" albeit BIG, fishfinder, on bottom.

Impact shield, huh??? Not a bad idea...;)

Actually, I was toying with an idea that would allow the use of a leader as long as you like and still have it fold down short enough to cast. It's based on Sgt Slough's double clip down rig, but with an Impact shield at the bottom. I'll tie one up this afternoon and snap some pics...:)

[bigphil]

Nice. I've been trying to come up with something because I dont like that other pulley rig that everyone seems to use. I've found it works better using just a dang sputnik sinker instead of trying to fix a cut hook or coastlock to it.


I'll have to try yours with some of my Suffix Tri ultra Lectric green or blue I got.

[Jesse Lockowitz]

the name is evading me at the moment, but a gentlemen from NC has pioneered the big pully rigs such as this.


they work VERY good for surf sharking. they are great when u want/need that long leader and a big bait/weight :-)



good post RR



Jesse

[AtlantaKing]

the name is evading me at the moment, but a gentlemen from NC has pioneered the big pully rigs such as this.


Suburbon (RIP :) )

[Jesse Lockowitz]

Suburbon (RIP :) )



yes, tyvm . and definately may he RIP.


MANY people ive talked to speak EXTREMEMELY high of him and all his donations to the fishing community.



Jesse

[Al Kai]

Thats a sharp lookin rig.

[barty b]

yes, tyvm . and definately may he RIP.


MANY people ive talked to speak EXTREMEMELY high of him and all his donations to the fishing community.



Jesse

Thats the Pulley rig I've been using for a couple years now. But, when deployed is not a "fishfinder" style. The lead has a fixed stopping point.
Rob, as always I appreciate your genius,HOWEVER:rolleyes: The first 5 footer you catch on that is going to severly damage the "bite" section of that rig, So I am not sure how many sharks it will be good for. Would it work if you crimped a section of braided cable or wire as a "bite leader" ? Just wondering, I have seen 6 footers "saw" 400lb mono off.

[bigphil]

I bet it wouldn't skip a beat with a piece of steel on the end.

Might try to make one and head to the point on Sunday.

[Railroader]

Thats the Pulley rig I've been using for a couple years now. But, when deployed is not a "fishfinder" style. The lead has a fixed stopping point.
Rob, as always I appreciate your genius,HOWEVER:rolleyes: The first 5 footer you catch on that is going to severly damage the "bite" section of that rig, So I am not sure how many sharks it will be good for. Would it work if you crimped a section of braided cable or wire as a "bite leader" ? Just wondering, I have seen 6 footers "saw" 400lb mono off.

If the circle gets him in the corner of the mouth, as it should, there won't be any "sawing off" problems. That one I caught the other day didn't do any damage to the weedeater rig...

I'll bet you lunch it'll be fine for anything I hook...:popcorn:

[barty b]

[QUOTE=Railroader;298924]If the circle gets him in the corner of the mouth, as it should, there won't be any "sawing off" problems.

True,somewhat, And your probably right...I just cant get past taking any chances with "probably". I am still kicking myself for not checking my leader the other night at Jekyll and losing that big one.
I do like the concept of it though, I would just "feel better" with steel in the sharks mouth. I have had sharks on circles in the corner of the mouth, and if they turn into the leader, then the trace is now sideways in its mouth, I almost lost that 5 footer last year just like that. He ALMOST chewed through 90lb sevenstrand wire, And he was hooked in the corner of the mouth....Lunch huh? I like double cheeseburgers :D :p

[barty b]

plus ensure that your hands don't get cut up by the cut down hook when leadering a fish.

We dont grab the leader, We grab the TAIL! :D

[barty b]

Simple solution..Screw the weedeater line altogether, Make the whole rig out of 800lb steel cable, It is actuallly thinner in diameter than the weedeater line. I think it's actually cheaper too. :beer:

[Railroader]

Well, you're on, then...Jim put me on the best farghin' burger I've eaten outside my back yard the other day...:cool:

T-Ray's in Fernandina...;)

We'll hit it after the next all nighter at Nassau Sound...:D

[Railroader]

Dang you Jim, you beat me to it...:p

[Railroader]

Simple solution..Screw the weedeater line altogether, Make the whole rig out of 800lb steel cable, It is actuallly thinner in diameter than the weedeater line. I think it's actually cheaper too. :beer:

MAN OVERBOARD!!!!...:eek: :eek: :p

[AtlantaKing]

OK, I tied up what I thought it would look like with an impact shield in place of the hook. Just under the upper swivel is a cut down hook, tied so that the bend faces up. The impact shield would be installed about just over 3' down from the swivel that ties to the shock leader. Below the impact shield is another 6' of leader, a snap swivel and then another swivel. The 1' to 2' long bite leader would be tied (or crimped, if using wire) to this swivel.

So, basically, the weight is pulled close to the impact shield, and the hook is "placed" into the hook of the impact shield. The remaining loop of line gets looped over the top (cut-down) hook so that the whole thing, when held by the swivel, is taught and 1/3 as long as the starting leader (imagine the entire leader folded into thirds).

I tried taking some pics but I couldn't get the camera to focus on the mono and hold the loop and take the pic, but Sgt. Slough has a good diagram of the loop-up, clip-down rig.

http://pierandsurf.com/photopost/data/500/up_n_over.JPG

So, it's like the rig pictured above, but instead of the impact sinker, the impact shield is placed just above the sinker snap. This rig would effectively shorten the leader by 2/3, so a 12' long leader would be right around 4' long.

[rattler]

20 minutes in saltwater and that #80 will be #18...not designed for salt...weedwacker line is cheap chit...nice rig tho...

[Railroader]

20 minutes in saltwater and that #80 will be #18...not designed for salt...weedwacker line is cheap chit...nice rig tho...


What "80# will be 18#....the Ande shocker??? :confused:

[barty b]

I think he's trying to say that the weedwacker line will loose strength. Not true...This part HAS beeen tested. A LOT of guys incorperate QUALITY weedeater line (not the cheap stuff) in their rigs and it does not fail. That red line I had by kawasaki is like 30$ for 150 feet. I have used it before with NO problems.

[barty b]

OK, I tied up what I thought it would look like with an impact shield in place of the hook. Just under the upper swivel is a cut down hook, tied so that the bend faces up. The impact shield would be installed about just over 3' down from the swivel that ties to the shock leader. Below the impact shield is another 6' of leader, a snap swivel and then another swivel. The 1' to 2' long bite leader would be tied (or crimped, if using wire) to this swivel.

So, basically, the weight is pulled close to the impact shield, and the hook is "placed" into the hook of the impact shield. The remaining loop of line gets looped over the top (cut-down) hook so that the whole thing, when held by the swivel, is taught and 1/3 as long as the starting leader (imagine the entire leader folded into thirds).

I tried taking some pics but I couldn't get the camera to focus on the mono and hold the loop and take the pic, but Sgt. Slough has a good diagram of the loop-up, clip-down rig.

http://pierandsurf.com/photopost/data/500/up_n_over.JPG

So, it's like the rig pictured above, but instead of the impact sinker, the impact shield is placed just above the sinker snap. This rig would effectively shorten the leader by 2/3, so a 12' long leader would be right around 4' long.


Robs rig is basically a "hanging drum rig" In the one you have pictured your hanging the trace,In Robs rig your hanging the coiled up leader ABOVE the lead and bait. The trace on Robs rig is only 6".
RR correct me if I am seeing this wrong.

[toejam]

Railroader nice report,-- I have fished with rigs similar to yours, the only different being I put another crimped cut-off hook facing downward so the two cut-off crimped hooks, hook on to each another during the cast and disengage on spashdown. You can also streamline the loose line using an old Hawian method of rolling serval sheets of toilet paper up tight and tying around the lose line. It will hold together during the cast, but will come apart in the water thus releaseing the line..... Hey I will give yours a try,,a little less work , Heh? BTW, I like a short steel bite leader for that "just in case of" .

[HuskyMD]

Why does this Atlanta King character keep trying to hijack the thread? RR posted a nice rig and AK keeps coming back with stupid little comments and pictures of spot rigs. This thread was intended for SHARK rigs, not perch rigs. Maybe we should change his handle to BURGER king?

[bigphil]

hawaiin method with TP sounds interesting.

I think AK is not trying to hijack, just weigh options.

I've got rigs that have probably 20 hours and to numerous a fish to mention that haven't lost any noticeable strength. Mono, weedeater, suffixx whatever line. And not all line (of the weedeater variety) is the same. I stay away from the flourescent kind because the two types I've seen stretch really bad.

[Surf Cat]

Why does this Atlanta King character keep trying to hijack the thread? RR posted a nice rig and AK keeps coming back with stupid little comments and pictures of spot rigs. This thread was intended for SHARK rigs, not perch rigs. Maybe we should change his handle to BURGER king?

Your only contribution is to crap on somebody elses contribution to the discussion?

[AtlantaKing]

Robs rig is basically a "hanging drum rig" In the one you have pictured your hanging the trace,In Robs rig your hanging the coiled up leader ABOVE the lead and bait. The trace on Robs rig is only 6".
RR correct me if I am seeing this wrong.

Actually, in the pic from Sgt. Slough, the length of the trace can be as long or as short you want it. The rig I tied up actually has the trace at around 8", with the loop up being part of the leader. The beauty of this is that regardless of the length of the trace, the bait, when clipped, is always right behind the sinker during the cast. Now, with a big shark rig that's long, instead of putting the hook in the impact shield, you can loop the leader on the impact shield, then back up to the "cut-down" hook and then putting the hook in the impact shield. Essentially, the rig would be coiled once more, so that the clipped rig would only be about 1/5 as long as the expanded version. I don't know if this makes any sense without pictures, but I tried it yesterday with the rig I tied, and it does work. I shortened a 10' long rig to a 2' long package for casting.

Oh, and don't worry about HuskyMD...he's just busting my chops because I didn't hold him back from buying the Gulps at Dick's yesterday, thereby spending his lunch money on it and now he has to eat Gulps for lunch! :--| :p :D

[HuskyMD]

I'm just starting the pre-morningstar trip smack down...busting his chops for sure...

[Sea2aeS]

man, nothin against railroader or anyone else, but check out Subs page on the pulley rig. I personally put em to work on 150+lb carhoods & a 5 ft biter last night at the pt. works wonders. tough as nails & easy to cast. Bulletproof, and even a toofy one couldnt snip the 400lb, though it was purdy frayed, but the short section is easy to replace. heres Russ,s site. :beer:

http://home.earthlink.net/~biters/

[trowpa]

Very nice - I like that rig. My I have been using Malin wire for trace - any reason not to use that instead of the #400lb mono? I find it easier to just do haywire twists in the malin wire versus crimping #400 mono - and would think it would hold up better.

[TreednNC]

They had them chewing cable last year up at Hatteras last year...as well as years prior. Seem to remember people liking some sort of single strand instead of cable, as single strand would slide inbetween teeth and multi strand would get caught and sawed in the teeth....but idk:confused:

[Sea2aeS]

my understanding was that if it can bite through 400lb mono, then ya really dont need to be messin with it anyways. Makes sense, as I was doing it solo last night. I cant see myself dragging 200+lbs of garbo up on the beach.

I use a small hand gaff, and slide it through the swivel and use the gaff to drag em up on the beach. very easy way to do it. gaff tip through the swivel, then drag em. it worked like a champ for me. all my doubts on the pulley rig were put to rest last night. Im amazed at how strong, and tough this thing is.

Im also amazed at the strength of suffix now. some damn good line... suffix got put to the test and i figured with as much heat as i was puttin to them carhoods in close, it woulda broke. Im sold on suffix tri now...:) .

[bstarling]

20 minutes in saltwater and that #80 will be #18...not designed for salt...weedwacker line is cheap chit...nice rig tho...


That weed wacker line is super tough and salt water won't faze it. Made of the same stuff as any other monofilament, nylon. I've caught several BTs on the stuff and it is tough. A toothy one can bight through it in a second if he gets it right though. I have one rig than't going on its third year and several sharks.

Bill

[Finger_Mullet]

At Croakerfest I witnessed bill using weedeater line for a leader. He had like 20 ' of it. It brought in a 6+' black tip that was hooked in the a$$. That was a hard pulling fish. That weedwhacker line is some tough chit!!!!!

The companies that make weed eater line makes fishing line. Check out Sufix.com.

Darin

[barty b]

Here ares ome examples of things you can catch from the beach near shore that will LAUGH at 400lb mono. All these pics are "borrowed" from Team Oldskool of Florida.

http://www.swordfishingcentral.com/albums/beach-shark-photos/img024.jpg

http://www.swordfishingcentral.com/albums/beach-shark-photos/img015.jpg

http://www.swordfishingcentral.com/albums/beach-shark-photos/img013.jpg

http://www.swordfishingcentral.com/albums/beach-shark-photos/img004.jpg

http://www.swordfishingcentral.com/albums/beach-shark-photos/img001.jpg

http://www.swordfishingcentral.com/albums/beach-shark-photos/shark_fishing4.jpg

AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST.........

http://www.swordfishingcentral.com/albums/beach-shark-photos/extreme4.jpg

I could go on but you get the picture. Serious shark fishing is a whole different ball game. I,for one am working on my skills to be able to land sharks such as the ones above. Sure 5-6 footers are fun on surf gear,and I will NEVER knock it, But the places I fish, You never know when a STUD will eat your bait, I want to be able to land it. :)

[TreednNC]

Please do go on lol. I love those sea monster pics from the beach

[Sea2aeS]

I couldnt agree more Barty. It is what it is. I was told the lack of using wire was due to sharks nack for sensing electrical current and less wire = better.... I use the pulley rigs on heavers in close past the drop off with a whole small bluefish
they worked fine for what I was doing. I dont have a yak yet, or the large enough gear to charge after gnarly sharks of the size above. NOT YET ATLEAST:D

[barty b]

Consider this thread officially HIJACKED!:p

S2S Your right about the "magnetic sensory" of sharks...To combat this we coat our wire or steel in liquid plastic or "PlastiDip" spray. I also coat the hooks.
http://pierandsurf.com/photopost/data/500/group1_285.JPG
I will usually coat the hook as well but this one has been used and needs to be recoated. You can wrap it in electric tape as well. I got this tip from the Texas guys and it really improves pick ups.
I cant rip pics from this site but here's the link

http://groups.msn.com/TEXASSHARKFISHING/homepage.msnw
It's run by a guy named Chris Deaver AKA Powerfisherman. This is THE land based shark fishing website. I have learned a shatload of stuff from these guys.

[barty b]

Please do go on lol. I love those sea monster pics from the beach

Here ya go, 189 pics in the gallery
http://www.swordfishingcentral.com/gallery/beach-shark-photos

[Jesse Lockowitz]

mhmmm


barty how many u get down there ? :D


ima bring the yak and 50w down ur way...for a few days of sharking..


got any beaches where people arent at?




Jesse

[bigphil]

Fish porn.

[barty b]

Yeah Jess, Plenty..I dont really care if theres people around or not...They usually leave shortly after something like that gets beached. It's that time of year so bring it on Grad Boy!! :D

[barty b]

Like I said, Imstill working on my technique and all. You dont just "show up" at the beach and expect to catch,much less beach a shark like those. It take a team of about 3 guys to make it happen. Anything over 7' is a handfull for 2 guys. I have been there when a 12' Hammer was beached in St Pete. It took the crew of 3, 1 hour and 45 min to get it to shore and then another 30 to get it tail roped and on the sand. It was a definate eye opener on "Big sharks".

[Jesse Lockowitz]

gimme a place to crash barty, and me u and THE RAILROADSTER can do it to it.

i supply yak + big reels if u supply sleeping place haha



Jesse

[trowpa]

OK - so for wire - only drawback is magnetic issues - so you coat with plastidip.

Still wanna know - anything wrong with haywire twists for wire and knots for mono? I'm using...

Trace: #12 malin wire (180lb test). Haywire twists to hook & swivel
Rub leader: 250lb mono knotted connections to swivels.

Should i be using crimps for the mono instead?

[Railroader]

Trowpa,

The problem with single strand wire is that if it kinks, it's GONE...Wedge it between the teeth, or in the corner of the mouth, a couple good headshakes, POP!

[Railroader]

Like I said, Imstill working on my technique and all. You dont just "show up" at the beach and expect to catch,much less beach a shark like those. It take a team of about 3 guys to make it happen. Anything over 7' is a handfull for 2 guys. I have been there when a 12' Hammer was beached in St Pete. It took the crew of 3, 1 hour and 45 min to get it to shore and then another 30 to get it tail roped and on the sand. It was a definate eye opener on "Big sharks".

Well, You know I'm on your team, and I'll back your play...;)

For now...:rolleyes:...I think I'm probably good up to 8 footers with heavy surf gear. Until I get sick of 7 and 8 footers, I'll sit back and watch you and Phil with the BIG GEAR and see what happens....:popcorn: I got y'alls back, of course, when the wrestling match starts...but what the hell are we gonna do with a 12 foot Hammer??? :D :D

Cross that bridge when we jump off it, I guess...:p :p

[trowpa]

so
1. mono/weed eater - will be sawed through
2. Braided cable can be cut through one strand at a time - more easily than single strand
3. single strand can kink and break.

All have disadvantages...guess i pick my poison?

[Railroader]

After working in the electronics business for a number of years, I fail to see how a piece of wire in salt water generates electricity.

Would somebody care to explain that theory?


I can explain what I've READ, but that's all...Imagine biting on a piece of tin foil, against a tooth filling...Not pleasant..:eek:

Supposedly, sharks are very sensitive to metal in a similar way. In practice, I've seen my Weedeater cord rigs out-catch metal rigs on the SSI pier. Never seen metal out-catch mono.

I think the less metal, the better...:popcorn:

[Railroader]

so
1. mono/weed eater - will be sawed through
2. Braided cable can be cut through one strand at a time - more easily than single strand
3. single strand can kink and break.

All have disadvantages...guess i pick my poison?

I once caught SEVENTEEN 3-5 foot sharks in one night, on the SAME weedeater cord rig. It was trashed, but still pullin' 'em in.

I've NEVER caught seventeen of ANYTHING on the same rig, ANY other time...

Usually one King, Cuda, Big Jack, or Tarpon ruins a single strand rig...

Braided cable doesn't last very long either...It kinks and frays...

Until I get a weedeater cord rig bit off at the hook, I remain convinced that it's the best option.

Pick your poison, mine's .080 WEEDEATER CORD.

;)

[trowpa]

Thanks - I might just give the weed eater a try. guess i'll have to get into crimping :mad: don't think you can knot the weed eater stuff eh :D

[Railroader]

Losing fish is an integral part of fishing. Nobody lands EVERY fish they hook.

Ask yourself a question.

At what point do we reach rediculous?

Back a tow truck up to the water and yak out the cable, that'll work if we need a guarantee.

Or stretch a net out across the inlet and yak out some dynamite and a case of hand grenades.

Personally, I don't see why anybody would beach a 9, or 10, or 11 foot shark. Cut the damn line and let it live, not to mention that it's probably just a tiny bit on the dangerous side to drag an 11 foot long hammer head up onto the beach.

Seems like I remember seeing somebody get tail slapped by a little five foot shark a while back. If it'd had been a ten footer, we would have left him on the beach with a broken leg, because he's too heavy to carry a mile back to the parking lot....


ROTFLMFAO...:D

Jim, you owe me a keyboard....I just spit a mouthful of chocolate milk all in mine while reading this post....And the MZ. is pissed because she has to clean it up...:D :D :D :D

[Railroader]

Thanks - I might just give the weed eater a try. guess i'll have to get into crimping :mad: don't think you can knot the weed eater stuff eh :D


Weedeater cord can be snelled to the hook. You'll need a bench vise for the hook, and two pairs of pliers, to tighten...Comes out nice and clean, though. :)

[Sea2aeS]

what about me????:mad: damn cocktwitz I mean lockowitz. ;)

Barty--- do you ever do anything besides think fishing 24/7??? are you human???? every question I could ever think of you got it already figured out, wtf:(

[Railroader]

Good "point"...:p

[Sea2aeS]

surf, the wire & electricity thing is 'electrolysis' very low amounts of electricity. we wouldnt feel it due to small size, but enough to keep the toothy ones away at times.

[Lip Ripper]

note to self- if im going to be in a situation where a shark could bite me, be sure to put a piece of wire leader in my pocket.;)

[barty b]

Barty--- do you ever do anything besides think fishing 24/7??? are you human???? (

No, Not really

[Railroader]

Ok. Maybe that explains why female sharks don't have a moustache too :D



Whatever the hell you've been drinking tonite, bring a half gallon of it to Nassau Sound on the 19th...:beer: :D :D :D ;)

[barty b]

Seems like I remember seeing somebody get tail slapped by a little five foot shark a while back. If it'd had been a ten footer, we would have left him on the beach with a broken leg, because he's too heavy to carry a mile back to the parking lot....

Jim are you calling me fat?? :p

[Railroader]

Man...

Talk about a thread spinning out of control....:eek:

But it sure is FUNNY!

Yeah, Jim, I got the license plate. NICE. If you haven't, send it to Barty...He'll love it.

[barty b]

After working in the electronics business for a number of years, I fail to see how a piece of wire in salt water generates electricity.

Would somebody care to explain that theory?

It doesn't...However, Sharks "see" through magnetic impulses and signatures, Like porpoise with sonar, Their lateral line picks up bio-magnetism....I am not sure how this works,but look at it this way...some people believe that magnets help with blood circulation,hence bio-magnetism. Sharks are VERY sensitive to this,so any metal on the bait or rig sets it off as 'not natural".
A common misconception with sharks is that they are mindless eating machines. Not true, They are actually pretty picky about their meals. Sure they will "taste" anything but for them to actually commit to a bait is another story.
RR is right, Less metal the better,but then you have to sacrifice strength of your rig. My solution is to reduce the exposed metal or "insulate" it as much as possible.

[barty b]

Like dogs, sharks rely on a keen sense of smell to track down food. But new research shows noses aren’t the only way that sharks detect smells: Their entire bodies, in fact, function as giant noses capable of even picking up the “shape” of a smell.

Running down the sides of every shark are nerve-packed strips called lateral lines. Researchers know these sensitive structures can detect the faint vibrations emitted by living things in water, but their ability to pick up scent was previously unknown. Even more surprising, researchers said, is that lateral lines can detect the 3-D “plumes” of scents — structures resembling the turbulence left behind after waving a hand through thick fog or steam.

"Odor plumes are complex, dynamic, three-dimensional structures used by many animal species to locate food, mates and home sites," said Jelle Atema, a Boston University biologist and co-author of the study detailed in an upcoming issue of the Journal of Experimental Biology. When deprived of the “odor plume” information, the study shows, sharks are unable to find the source of an odor.


To figure this out, researchers ran a stream of squid odor through a circulating water tank and noted a shark’s ability to find the source — with no eddies and plumes to track, the shark almost always failed. They then used the same setup, but added a brick behind the scent source, thereby jumbling up the flow of the squid smell and giving the shark more information to track it. Sure enough, the sharks fared much better in locating the "prey."


Researchers also numbed the lateral lines with a common antibiotic, producing a similarly disabling effect on the sharks' hunting abilities.

"The results are interesting for our understanding of animal navigation underwater and for the development of guidance of autonomous underwater vehicles,” Atma said.

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[Sea2aeS]

barty, are you sure that insulating and reducing the amount of metal exposed increases the number if bites, cuz sharkfest is next week and any advantage I can get ill take. PM my with the details. I got a week to get ready & make rigs.
I got the biter bug deep after last night. Its not soo much what you catch as much as it is getting hooked up with some serious pullage, cuz that was effin fun last night. I got to see just how far a 1508 all* will flex with an assload of drag. goddamn that was some serious fun, large ray or not it was pullage:)

[rattler]

just to clear up my earlier post...I spent 15 years working with plastics...most start out the same until you add things to give you the properties you want...fishing line is a great example ie:soft, abraision resistant, floro, etc...weed wacker line is made for the job it does...I am suprised salt doesn't make it brittle...Now I have to look into it...might save me some money...this needs to go into the bible...great thread...

[Sea2aeS]

So, in all essence. A shark is more likely to eat a live bluefish with ("metal" a hook) in it than a dead one putting off scent sitting on the bottom due to sensing the frequencies and getting a general idea of location and what it is? Sounds too complicated but in a nutshell I think I get it:rolleyes:

[barty b]

First off,rattler, not callin ya on it, Just sayin that in our experience "QUALITY" weedeter line has stood up to some abuse. Look into it and test it for yourself,Ithink you'll be pleasently suprised.

S2S, Yes, Insulate your rigs. Try RR's rig, I'm building one right now. As for the live bait VS dead bait thing, All I can say is that I know Blacktips prefer live bait. Bulls will eat either and Most Tigers, I have heard, came on chunks of Jack or rays.
Go to home depot and get the Plasti-Dip SPRAY. Coat every metal part of your rig. Dont worry about the swivels getting fouled,they'll work fine. Just coat the hook and bite leader section.

[tulisiak.2]

Personally, I don't see why anybody would beach a 9, or 10, or 11 foot shark. Cut the damn line and let it live, not to mention that it's probably just a tiny bit on the dangerous side to drag an 11 foot long hammer head up onto the beach.



I agree with surf fish, btu maybe I am missing something. I dont understand why you would bring such a large shark onto the beach. Post catch mortality skyrockets and that is assuming you are even going to try to make an attempt to return it to the water. Marine apex predators are having enough problems these days and dont need a bunch of attention needy surf fishing individuals to make their problems worse. Please correct me if i am wrong about this statement. if i am then ignore it, but unless your eating all 8-12' of those sharks whats the point of beaching um??

[Sea2aeS]

ramble on:popcorn: sing my song:beer: kep on ramblin:p

[barty b]

I agree with surf fish, btu maybe I am missing something. I dont understand why you would bring such a large shark onto the beach. Post catch mortality skyrockets and that is assuming you are even going to try to make an attempt to return it to the water. Marine apex predators are having enough problems these days and dont need a bunch of attention needy surf fishing individuals to make their problems worse. Please correct me if i am wrong about this statement. if i am then ignore it, but unless your eating all 8-12' of those sharks whats the point of beaching um??

Some guys do some guys don't . A lot of "Experienced" sharkers will bring the fish into shallow water,get a tail rope on it and cut it loose,It never hits the beach. The use of CIRCLE HOOKS also helps with a live release. Like Jetty said, It's mostly a macho thing, BUT WERE MEN,at least some of us, I personally take every precaution right down to how long the fish is out of water,so a live release can be easily facilitated. This is exactly where EXPERIENCE and a GOOD CREW come into play. Your crew is KEY to the success of not only landing,but RELEASING THE FISH ALIVE. Also the use of heavy tackle so as not to wear the fish out unnessecarily. It's like watching guys from boats fight bull Reds with 15 lb tackle and then say "I released it" Well sure ya did,wore out as hell, and right into the jaws of the sharks that are following the same pogy pods the Reds are...dont get me started.

[Railroader]

I agree with surf fish, btu maybe I am missing something. I dont understand why you would bring such a large shark onto the beach. Post catch mortality skyrockets and that is assuming you are even going to try to make an attempt to return it to the water. Marine apex predators are having enough problems these days and dont need a bunch of attention needy surf fishing individuals to make their problems worse. Please correct me if i am wrong about this statement. if i am then ignore it, but unless your eating all 8-12' of those sharks whats the point of beaching um??

I got no need for your attention, but it's kinda lke the rest of my crew has already said. We go to GREAT lengths, sometimes to far, to try and release nearly EVERYTHING we catch, shark or not...I don't have any desire to kill a big shark, or a little one for that matter. I DO however have the desire to catch and successfully release a biggun'. I'm also willing to put in the time, and learn the necessary steps to make it happen.

If the R/C kept or killed every fish we caught, there'd be NOTHING left in saltwater between Tybee Island and Daytona Beach...;)

[Surf Cat]

great info on here, one thing I know i'd like to see, is if any of the crew has the ability it would be cool to see a demonstration of a rig being put together via a video camera, a short demonstration that could be put up on you tube might be helpful. The pictures help and yeah I have worked with pulley rigs of the breakaway variety. A video demo might make it a bit clearer to those who haven't used pulley rigs. Anyone game?

Thanks for a great thread fellas !!

Oh , BTW I am thinking castable rigs here, obviously yaking baits out can employ rigs w/o the casting consideration- so showing the build of the rig and a cast of it would be way cool- if someone has the time to spare and doesn't mind talking us threw the process on camera

[Railroader]

Well, I'm all out of "makings" at the moment, but if we can get Surf Fish to remember his video camera on the 19th, we'll get some video of my rig, step by step, and in actual use...:)

As of now, my new rig is untested in water, so it may not be worth a tinker's damn, but I can see or imagine no reason why it won't work.

We shall see...;)

[barty b]

I built one last night and albeit ugly as hell, It just might work well.
I will let our "technical advisor" Surf Fish, Film me building one .and we will do a little tutorial video of the trip. Since Jim is not interested in catching a shark worth a chit, He can do the filming. :p :D

[Railroader]

This may or may not clear things up a bit for those interested...

Imagine the flower hook on the porch is the rod tip, you're throwing the excess leader coiled and hooked at the top, with one strand hanging...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/Rob69/IMG_1780.jpg

A closer look at the clip-down, or clip-UP in this case...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/Rob69/IMG_1781.jpg

The business end...The weight will slide about 6-7 feet on pick-up, before any resistance. Should give a little time for the fish to decide for sure to eat...Plus, the bait is close to the weight.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/Rob69/IMG_1782.jpg

Clear as mud, now, right???...:)

[Railroader]

Well, this does not seem to be the case while watching the rig fly with the lacrosse ball on the bottom...And most of the benefit of the bait and sinker being close together is realized during the actual loading and release of the payload.

Once it's away, it don't really matter what it does, as long as it's making 80 yards or so, which it is. :)

[barty b]

Jim,
It doesn't work like that, The sinker leads the rig,The bait is folded back behind the sinker in flight causing a bend in the leader that prevents the sinker from riding up the line. This is not meant to be a long distance rig. Rob was getting great distance with it in the trial phase,but we dont really NEED it to go more than 80 yards for the places we shark fish. It will do that easily. I mean hell, How aerodynamic can a chunk of stingray or slab of bait fish be any way?

[Surf Cat]

Not sure of the advantage on a clip up vs clip down, but thought I'd post this for comparison.

I use one of the breakaway sinkers with integrated clip and cap for this purpose as pictured.

I crimp a hook leaving a big enough loop of the line to fit in the clip. I'm using 100lb mono here , but could substitute out for the weedeater line.



Here's how it looks when redied for casting- minus the actual bait
http://pierandsurf.com/photopost/data/500/reels_019.jpg

This keeps the bait literally pinned behind the sinker and should allow for max distance- tho as Barty mentioned- ya ain't casting a big slab of meat all that far anyway.

[trowpa]

I understand how they are set up to cast - what I'm not sure I can understand is the deployment - how can you be sure the rig comes apart when it its the water? Looks like you'd be "chucking and hoping"

Can someone explain it simply enough for me to understand and have enough confidence of proper deployment for using?

Tnx

[barty b]

The key to deployment is to have the "clip" open enough,and the "loop" open enough, so that when it hits it gets knocked off. Rob reported a 99% deployment rate during the testing phase. It's nothing to worry about as long as the "clip" hook is bent just enough to hook the loop. A lot of times it will release "in flight"

[Lip Ripper]

I understand how they are set up to cast - what I'm not sure I can understand is the deployment - how can you be sure the rig comes apart when it its the water? Looks like you'd be "chucking and hoping"

Can someone explain it simply enough for me to understand and have enough confidence of proper deployment for using?

Tnx

when the sinker hits the water, the cone(wich slides up and down) is forced up and pushes the loop off. kinda hard to explain.

[Lip Ripper]

oops, i thought you were talking about the breakaway sinker.

[Surf Cat]

I don't use the breakaway for normal drum or striper fishing. Too mcuh cost if you lose a rig and really the standard fish finder works with less hassle most of the time.

Migh build a couple of rigs for sharks tho, just to try out.

[Jesse Lockowitz]

i built one of these today , and threw it.

im not gonna hide the way i feel about it. and this is ONLY MY OPINION OF IT.

now, this test was done on the pier, while waitin for a king to hit hte pinrig lol.


I tested this rig RR has concocted , and the Subourban "BIG ASS PULLEY" Rig. both with a head from about a 1lb bluefish.


First thoughs, i did not like having to coil/loop stuff up.


threw ok, but felt just like a drum fish finder rig with a longer leader, and bulky.


LOVE the pulley rig. everything stays in place, and does not helicoptor like a fish finder, as it is stationary til it hits the water. no coiling, etc etc.


In my opinion, which isnt saying much, i would rather use the pully.


hey, not bashin ya railroader, it was just what i liked.


i just personally dont see how coiling stuff is easier then just hookin the baited hook onto the little cut hook below the swivel..



to each his own i suppose :-)


Jesse

[barty b]

My ONLY complaint with the pulley rig is that the lead needs to be heavier than the bait for the rig to work properly, Which in my case ain't always so. Alot of times on the beach I can hold with 6oz...A whole whiting of 10" is heavier than that. I dont want to have to increase the lead to make my rig work. As Always....To Each His Own! :beer:

Ya know, A lot of times I think we spend WAAAAAY too much time arguing the little things. All the afore mentioned rigs will put fish on the beach, So who gives a F.....
SHUT UP AND FISH!!!!!!!!!!!! :fishing:

[Sea2aeS]

dood barty I have to disagree on the weight on pulley rigs having to be heavier due to experiencing firsthand. I put a whole 14 inch mullet on mine, and a 10oz pyramid, and proceeded to lob that bastard out there without it separating till it was supposed to.

Its all due in part to 400lb mono is some pretty stiff stuff man, and where the swivel connects to your running line I discovered a trick to make it happen with smaller lead.
when you secure the breakaway clip on the weight end to the hook shank, take the mono on the sinker side, and pull down above the weight towards the swivel and it tensions that stiff ass mono to give slight pull on the lighter weight side, which is enough to keep it secure on cast so as you dont jerk it around. if your smooth with the cast and do it right, it will work fine with a smaller sinker, and that was my main concern. I had to experiment to see for myself otherwise I had my doubts. ;)

[trowpa]

Ok - going to redo some rigs for this season based on info here. Gonna trash the hardwire and replace with either 400lb mono or weedeater as well.

Any recommendations on model and size circles? I'm looking at the mustads 39960D or 39950BL

But - have no clue what size. Any specifics that work well for castable-sized baits?

[trowpa]

.065 blue Weed Eater line from Walmart, Penn size 1.6, 150-200 lb test double crimps, and Gamakatsu 7/0 Octopus Circle hooks work for me...

Gami 7/0 Octopus Circles? are you serious? I use Gami 8/0 for stripers!

You must use pretty small chunks...maybe my baits are too big!?!?

[Sea2aeS]

hooks = owner super mutu 12/0 circles.
line = momoi 400lb smoke blue
crimps = 2.2 mm double sleves
swivels = atleast 250lb test size.

[Sea2aeS]

man, for pulley rigs a 6-12 inch fresh bluefish, spanish mackeral head, chunk of false albie, bunker, bunker head, small bluefish head or chunk of blue the size of a cigg pack, whole spot, etc to give you an idea of likesize baits using pulley rigs.

my preference would be a spanish mackeral head, then a small bluefish, then a fresh bunker.

[Railroader]

MY GOD!!!

Look what I have created:eek: ....I had no idea that this thread was gonna take on such a LIFE!!! I just wanted to post some pics of a rig I came up with...:)

Here's to page six...:beer:

My mind's made up, until proven otherwise by a fish biting a rig off, between the hook and sinker...:cool:

Y'all keep runnin' with it, I'm enjoying this.... thoroughly...:cool:

[barty b]

Ok - going to redo some rigs for this season based on info here. Gonna trash the hardwire and replace with either 400lb mono or weedeater as well.

Any recommendations on model and size circles? I'm looking at the mustads 39960D or 39950BL

But - have no clue what size. Any specifics that work well for castable-sized baits?



You guys are all WAAY off, We know Jim likes to catch the little sharks so the 7 or 8/0's are fine for that..Rob runs like 10-12/0's I think. Me, I dont go smaller than 16/0 Mustad, I like 20's too. But you gotta spread the gap at least a 1/4" on them so you get better hook exposure. A circle hook won't work unless the gap is EXPOSED.


JIM, Is that cannon really functional?? Steve Austin here in JAX has the origional "Bait Cannon"...He gets about 300 yards out of it with a frozed load. I have seen it empty his Daiwa Basia. That damn thing is too cool.

[barty b]

MY GOD!!!

Look what I have created:eek: ....I had no idea that this thread was gonna take on such a LIFE!!! I just wanted to post some pics of a rig I came up with...:)

Here's to page six...:beer:

My mind's made up, until proven otherwise by a fish biting a rig off, between the hook and sinker...:cool:

Y'all keep runnin' with it, I'm enjoying this.... thoroughly...:cool:



It's not your fault Rob...Sand Flea Needs to give us a SHARK FORUM!!! :D PLEEEEEZE Sand Flea,Can we have one,PLEASE,PLEASE,PLEASE???
C'mon man, This thread will go on forever if ya dont.

[trowpa]

dunno about other parts of the country, but the reason I got into sharking is because there just isn't anything else in the surf during the summer over 15 inches or so.

Sharking is my way of getting good pullage over the summer.

[Railroader]

dunno about other parts of the country, but the reason I got into sharking is because there just isn't anything else in the surf during the summer over 15 inches or so.

Sharking is my way of getting good pullage over the summer.

That's about the size of it down South...Sharkin' in the surf, Kings and such off the piers, and Flounder...that's about it until fall.

But ain't that ENOUGH? ;)

[Railroader]

I made one more rig, this time with the hook snelled with .080 mono. 14/0 Eagle Claw Sea Circle, with the gap opened a little.

You gotta put the hook in a vise, and pull the snell down with pliers from the tag end.

Just a bit of useless triva, I hung the hook in a bicycle hook in the ceiling in my shop, and lifted myself off the floor, hanging on this rig....:cool:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/Rob69/IMG_1784.jpg

[bigphil]

I tried the loop style yesterday. Obviously I had something wrong because I never even casted it. I've had problems with not having heavy enough bait with the pulley rig, but I've found if you can balance weight and bait enough to cast it seperates as its coming down to the water.

Learned a little bit about clip ups and clip down rigs.

I'm going to have to get one of those rubbers for my fingers to cast 6 and bait. That dang sheepshead head was heavy.

Jim, you gave me an idea. I'm gonna make a catapult thingy to put in the bed of the truck to launch my steering wheel size ray and a 32oz spider weight. Gonna get some mags for the 9/0.

[bigphil]

page 6.........here we come.

:spam:

bench vise? Man, teeth and fingers.
[IMG]http://www.coastaltechservices.net/images/RCsnell.JPG

ETA: Glad I had my shark rig to get this guy in. Had to rank up there with the strangest of my catches.

http://www.coastaltechservices.net/images/strange.jpg

[barty b]

I took the "hanging rig" out this morning for a test. Everything seemed to work fine, Castability was excellent hitting upwards of 75 yards with 5oz and a whole 8" mullet. Deployment was 100% out of 6 casts. The rig held up to three 3' Sharpies. The rod was "cut down" 1569 and the reel was a magged 545 full of 30# Big Game and 80# shock.

[Sea2aeS]

the problem with having species specific forums is youll have to have a bunch of em. ones for drum, sharks, stripers, trout, etc and that eliminates the need for the others as posts get spread out more and more. a good idea to an extent, but when you ask for an inch, a mile was the real intent.

[Paul McDonald]

I usually use Momoi or Triplefish mono leader materal but after reading this thread and talking to Phil I decided to make a weedeater leader. I had some red .095" 2.4mm weedeater line out in my shed. I decided to give it a go.

This is how I rig the business end of my mono leaders. I thread two sleeves on the mono. I put an offshore loop (it may be called a flemish eye) on the eye of the hook and leave a long tag end. I crimp the line near the loop knot. I wrap the 12" or so tag end then crimp it with the other sleeve. It helps with biteoffs because it is double thickness in the area where it is most likely to be bitten.
Here is a pic of what I am talking about.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c354/czshooter/Fishing001-2.jpg

[Surf Cat]

the problem with having species specific forums is youll have to have a bunch of em. ones for drum, sharks, stripers, trout, etc and that eliminates the need for the others as posts get spread out more and more. a good idea to an extent, but when you ask for an inch, a mile was the real intent.

Not only the problem of species specific, the problem of location specific-no doubt guys use the technique developed for their specific locales.

(We all know how bent out of shape the "point" guys get when the Jersey boys start talking about using braid.)

[bigphil]

Yeah, I'm going to make a few like that Paul. that upper crimp will be the weight stop.

[Railroader]

Yeah, I'm going to make a few like that Paul. that upper crimp will be the weight stop.

Exactamundo!!!:D ...

I LIKE that idea, Paul, think I'll give it a go, too.

[Paul McDonald]

Exactamundo!!!:D ...

I LIKE that idea, Paul, think I'll give it a go, too.

I am glad I could show y'all that trick. Someone showed me how to rig mono that way and I thought that I would pass it along to others.

[barty b]

I did that with some 90lb sevenstrand wire, I took 3 12" pieces and braided them together and crimped as normal. MUCH harder to cut even with cutters, also still very thin dia.

BTW,Paul, that's the same weed line I have, Thats some good stuff.
NOt sure if somewhere within the 6 pages of this thread if anybody ever mentoined to ONLY use the ROUND weed line.

[bstarling]

This has been fun. I couldn't participate much since my high speed cable crapped out. Back for now, hope it stays.

I've used that pulley rig since I saw it posted by Suburbon years ago. I've found it to be about as good as they get for casting. The trick is to put the clip down on the hook or sinker side depending on how much weight you are casting. If the bait is heavier than the sinker then the sinker usually works better hooked onto the bait. Thing is that casting a pound of bait and a half pound of sinker is just about over the edge for some of us old guys. It is also over the edge for a lot of rods unless you want a nice new three piece one. All that said I thought I'd post a couple of photo's I took last week at Carolina Beach, NC. Got no strikes, but that's the nature of fishing.

Bill
Here's a bait that was about the same or just a little less than the 8 oz sinker.
[/URL]
This one is ready for deployment.
(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/wbstarling/Tinkering/LadyHead.jpg)

This one is sitting and waiting. My casting rig of choice is a 4/0 HLW with 30 lb running line and a 100 lb mono casting line with the old weed eater 0.80" from Big Lots at 69 cents for an ass load of it.

[URL="http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/wbstarling/Tinkering/Deployed.jpg"]

Bill:fishing:

[Paul McDonald]

I did that with some 90lb sevenstrand wire, I took 3 12" pieces and braided them together and crimped as normal. MUCH harder to cut even with cutters, also still very thin dia.

BTW,Paul, that's the same weed line I have, Thats some good stuff.
NOt sure if somewhere within the 6 pages of this thread if anybody ever mentoined to ONLY use the ROUND weed line.

Another thing is if you use mono/weedeater line only use circle hooks. Use cable with j hooks.

[bstarling]

Here are the photo's I hope:

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/wbstarling/Tinkering/LadyHead.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/wbstarling/Tinkering/RiggedandReady.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/wbstarling/Tinkering/Deployed.jpg

Bill

[barty b]

Another thing is if you use mono/weedeater line only use circle hooks. Use cable with j hooks.

I only use circles...Period.

[barty b]

Here are the photo's I hope:

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/wbstarling/Tinkering/LadyHead.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/wbstarling/Tinkering/RiggedandReady.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/wbstarling/Tinkering/Deployed.jpg

Bill

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/wbstarling/Tinkering/LadyHead.jpg

AH HA..The clip is on the hook. I have never seen it done that way...How is your successful release ratio?

[bstarling]

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/wbstarling/Tinkering/LadyHead.jpg

AH HA..The clip is on the hook. I have never seen it done that way...How is your successful release ratio?


100% so far. I've never had the thing to stay put, I have had it to cut out early a couple of times. That is seldom though. You might notice that the W.E. stuff can be tied, just pull hell out of it to tighten it and don't expect a small knot.

OBTW, thanks for helping out with the posting, for some reason I could not get the photo links to open. I may have to relook at what I'm doing.

Bill:fishing:

[barty b]

Bill, Look at this thread
http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40372

[bstarling]

Bill, Look at this thread
http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40372


Thanks Barty


Bill

[trowpa]

You guys are all WAAY off, We know Jim likes to catch the little sharks so the 7 or 8/0's are fine for that..Rob runs like 10-12/0's I think. Me, I dont go smaller than 16/0 Mustad, I like 20's too. But you gotta spread the gap at least a 1/4" on them so you get better hook exposure. A circle hook won't work unless the gap is EXPOSED.



problem is i have to order these online (no local stores carry them and I want to make the rigs BEFORE getting to the beach). I know that a 12/0 in one hook is completely different than a 12/0 in another hook...

Can you give specific model numbers w/ the sizes (i.e. mustad 39960D or Owner Super Muto 10/0) etc

For stripers I use 8/0 Gamis up through 10/0 owner SSWs - I was thinking I should up the size 1 or 2 notches for sharks? Or is this not necessary?

THanks

[bigphil]

Yeah, thats the question. We need a comparison chart with pics. If you look at the pic of the hook I snelled on the last page. It's a 15/0 mustad circle. Dont think I opened the gap on it yet, and if I did it wasnt much. A 15/0 circle mustad is the same bottom width as a 12/0 mustad shaunnessy (sp).

[trowpa]

15/0 mustad - but what model? I know for instance a 12/0 mustad demon circle is huge (bunker head, big striper hook) but a 12/0 mustad 39960 tuna circle is tiny (smaller than my owner 9/0s)

very confusing....

[trowpa]

....So spending $$$$ on a brand name hook, that you will end up cutting off....might not be good thing for your pocket....But if you have deep pockets, then carry on...:fishing:


Its not about $$$$ for brand name hooks - its about getting the right size. I've got 9/0 circles in some brands that are bigger than 12/0's in other brands.
There are also 12/0 in some brands that are bigger than 16/0 in others.