Drum Fishin 101 Shock Leader and Drum Rigs

[NTKG]

So drum season will be upon us soon and the questions of what shock leaders are, how long, what lb, etc always comes up.

next that comes up is which hooks and what a "drum rig" is...

so i thought i'd offer up some 101. If you need 200 level or above help ask one of the old-timers im just a "young buck".

Reels: should be able to hold enough line. I wouldn't recommend less than a 6500 size reel. I prefer the 7500 and 6500 and the SX size avet


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/ntkg/knots001.jpg

1. as far as running line lean toward 17 or 20lb test. Popular lines include Berkley Big Game and Suffix Tri-Plus. Your shock leader should be at least 50lbs if your cannonballin or nigerian riggin 80lb or over.

2. HOooKs. Generally want to start out without much smaller than a 7/0. A very popular hook is the gami 8/0 octopus circle, but ya aint gonna find me usin one. I'd like a 14/0 Mustad Circle or a 10/0 Gami octopus J hook.
Below is a shot of gami 10/0 J in chrome and black as well as a 10/0 mustad black demon and 14/0 circle.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/ntkg/knots013.jpg


Double your mainline. If you don't know how learn!!!!!Tie either a bimmini or a spider hitch(which is much easier and faster), i believe the bible has CT doing a step by step bimmini.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/ntkg/knots002.jpg


there are two knots i use, and both are very, very strong and test near 100%.
I use a double nail knot or a sosin/no-name knot.
To tie a sosin run your shock leader through your loop.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/ntkg/knots003.jpg

Next, using your shock make five wraps around your loop

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/ntkg/knots004.jpg

next bring your tag end back toward your shock

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/ntkg/knots005.jpg

make a small look with the running side of your shock leader inside of the bimmini loop.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/ntkg/knots006.jpg

Next insert your tag end into the loop formed by the shockleader NOT THE BIMMINI.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/ntkg/knots007.jpg

ALWAYS LUBE YOUR KNOTS WITH SPIT. SPIT and pull ONLY on the running shock line. DO NOT pull on the tag section and you should end up with this

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/ntkg/knots008.jpg

with the way this knot works, for it to fail the shock leader has to eat through itself. that being said, you can trim your tag pretty much flush with your knot.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/ntkg/knots009.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/ntkg/knots010.jpg

[NTKG]

or just tie a double nail!

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/ntkg/knots011.jpg

As far as rigs there are really two things and you can go from there. a standard "drum" rig or a "nigerian" or "cannonball" rig.

to tie a standard drum rig, snell or knot your prefered hook to a swivel with 100lb. the longer your leader the shorter your cast will be.

next, place a bead on your shock leader. then slide on a coastlock, mcmahon etc.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/ntkg/knots012.jpg

then tie on your drum rig

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/ntkg/knots014.jpg

YOU MUST USE A BEAD... it must the be FIRST thing you put on your shock... WHY?????

BC you do not want your sinker coming up your line or getting able to tangle other lines. With a bead in place you can see that the sinker cannot go above the shock leader knot

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/ntkg/knots015.jpg

[NTKG]

The Variation the AC has gone to is credited to some of the local folk down south... its called a cannon ball or nigerian rig. I personally use a different version of it myself, but here it is.

snell or tie 80lb or greater leader to your hook. Go at least 2ft or more and cut your leader off. put a coastlock or mcmahon so it goes directly against the hook and tie the tag end on to a swivel.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/ntkg/knots016.jpg

The rig should look like this hanging from your rod.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/ntkg/knots018.jpg

The benefit of this rig is that it basically eliminates the fish finder. Which helps distance as well as the removal of the helicopter effect. Don't be worried about your bait being under the sinker. As DD and many of us have experimented, the bait hangs this way and whichever way the current is going your bait just sicks out of the sand like a drum lolipop

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/ntkg/knots019.jpg

Now I don't like the idea of 50lb being tied to a swivel bc to me anyway it seems that i am just providing another weak link. I think that another terminal knot to abrade and get "hit" over and over again is weaker than a good knot joining the 50 to 80 or more.

So i tie a no-name to the rig instead of using a swivel to tie my shock to.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/ntkg/knots021.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/ntkg/knots022.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/ntkg/knots023.jpg

In either case a bead is not necesary but can be used. in the standard rig the swivel will keep the sinker from sliding up, in mine the knot alone is too big for the sinker to slide up. also the idea is that if a fish swims in at you, the weight of the sinker begins your hookset for you.


I hope this info has been helpful and wish you all luck in the upcoming fall drum/striper run. its just that i don't wish you as much luck as hopefully is in store for me.;)

[Anthony]

Great thread from one of the best. One of these days I'll break down and learn the bimini.

[WILSON]

Very nice Neil!! Wish someone had done that when I started. Hope to see ya out there this drum season!

[catman32]

Thanks for bringing things back to where they should be.

[Big Worm]

great thread. Great pics. I needs me two more arms to tie that bimini.

[okimavich]

Good read. Hopefully we may be able to join you guys for some quality time on the water this year. :)

[Huntsman]

More great info from the AC, thx Neil...Hopefully I'll be able to make a few trips in VA w/ you guys this fall. Another tip to add to the journal...

[Cdog]

Great post Neil,hope we actually get to fish together this fall.

[dirtyhandslopez]

Mega thanks. But a question, which I have asked before,using the second rig you showed, which I know first and second and third hand works, why doesn't the weight want to make steel to steel contact with the hook when the fish is on, thereby elongating the hole and making the hook fall out? The water moving the weight around or what? Surely the weights gonna want to go to the lowest point, and with the rod tip in the air, that has to be the hook.:confused::confused::confused:

[Cdog]

Mega thanks. But a question, which I have asked before,using the second rig you showed, which I know first and second and third hand works, why doesn't the weight want to make steel to steel contact with the hook when the fish is on, thereby elongating the hole and making the hook fall out? The water moving the weight around or what? Surely the weights gonna want to go to the lowest point, and with the rod tip in the air, that has to be the hook.:confused::confused::confused:
With a fish on and pulling and the current the weight will move up the line.Thats the reason for the bead on the fish finder,to keep the wight from going above the shock knot. On the cannonball rig you dont need it because you either have a large knot(like Neils) or you tie a barrel swivel.

I use a bead with my cannonball rig and leave a tag end after I snell.That is used to form a loop around the swivel to keep the bait and weight together better. Thanks to DD and Plug on that tip.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x47/1fisher/bead002.jpg

Sorry pic is so big, still trying to figgure out the photobucket thing.:rolleyes:

[chris storrs]

dern sexy reels ya got there

[CrawFish]

Nice thread Neil.

[marstang50]

Looks like a promotion for New Castle. Can I use the rusty hook? I suggest that this be moved to the Bible Forum.

[kfowler]

Thank you !! Great read.

[Malakas07]

Good post NKTG

This needs to be put in the Bible and or stickied in the Virginia thread until the Drum run is over.

[Nserch4Drum]

Nice thread Neil.

About time he did somethin werth while.

good read Neil- did you notice a funny taste in one of em bottles?

[sand.trout]

NTKG,
2. HOooKs. Generally want to start out without much smaller than a 7/0. A very popular hook is the gami 8/0 octopus circle, but ya aint gonna find me usin one.

Why not a gami 8/0 ???? I just want to hear your opinion.

BTW great post.
I guess thats what a real bimmini looks like.
Dam! and I thought I was doing good.

[Nserch4Drum]

too many fish to count getting un-buttoned in the suds. If you are going to use the Gami's get the 4x strength or just switch over to the 10/0 Owner SSW's.

[NTKG]

[QUOTE=sand.trout;327206]

Why not a gami 8/0 ???? I just want to hear your opinion.

QUOTE]

I know alot of people that use them. and i've done ok on them, but teo and i went striper fishin one dec day. we were real fortunate bc the fish were just eating and eating and eating, but we both lost several fish each. all due to the gami 8/0 4x octopus circle. Their non- offset hooks seem ok, but we always used the offset and i started noticing that even in the fish i landed, the hook would be in the tongue or in the mouth somewhere. Ive also been around a buncha lost drum with them hooks. I think it has something to do with how sharp they are..... i dunno. but we talked about it online and i was definately not the only one who had this problem.

I like the mustad design, myself. they always go in the corner of the mouth and honestly, little doggies cant get their mouth around it as easily. the 14/0 standard and the 10/0 black demon are the same size. they work on stripers cobia and drum, and im all about keepin it simple.

i know alot of the old farts use nothing but J hooks and do very well. me i got sold on the idea after the first hookup i had on a drum and realized how damn hard it was to pull a hook back out!

[Newsjeff]

Great post, Neil.

This should go in the bible fer sure.

I know we disagree on this.
Now I don't like the idea of 50lb being tied to a swivel bc to me anyway it seems that i am just providing another weak link. I think that another terminal knot to abrade and get "hit" over and over again is weaker than a good knot joining the 50 to 80 or more.

You saw me lose that drum in Ocracoke last Spring. Remember where the line broke? At the 40lb shock to the 130lb "Cannonball" leader tied with a double nail. I swear the 130lb cut into and broke the 40lb when the heat was on. You saw me start using a 2/0 barrel swivel immediately after that. And it hasn't failed me yet.

Maybe it's OK with lines that have less diffrence in diameter, like 50lb to 80lb. With the 40lb to 130lb that I use, it's definitely gettin' a swivel.

I'll never use a Gami Octopus Circle again. It's a 10/0 Gami J or 10/0 Owner SSW J fer drum.

[Big Worm]

So J hooks and holding the rods? Or do you spike it and use the J hook and then slam it home? I do not use J hooks on my cannonball or fishfinders, or on anything else anymore for that matter.

But I have yet to beach a big drum.

[Kenmefish]

Hey guys, I'm on a fixed income you know, so if you got any of them Gamis laying around and ain't gonna use em, send them my way.

[Fishman]

Nice thread looks like this one might be headed for the bible.

Thanks

[Finfan]

Very nicley done. And some exellent observations afteer. Definatly a post that is Bible worthy.

Well Done!!! :D:beer::D

[gus]

the one and only - good beer. too bad i cant find john smiths extra smooth.

[Dr. Bubba]

Hey guys, I'm on a fixed income you know, so if you got any of them Gamis laying around and ain't gonna use em, send them my way.

Ken, remind me before the tourney and I'll bring ya what I got. I've had no problem with them for drum, but prefer the mustad. I do have a problem with them and cobia.

Neil, Nice Job!:beer:

[Sea2aeS]

this is one of the finest, most informative threads to come along in a very long time.... Neil, hats off. damn fine, in depth, howto thread on catchin them drummies....:beer:

I nominate it for the bible section...

can i get anyone else to nominate it as well???

[Newsjeff]

Here's a few pics of some drum rigs I just built fer the upcoming season as well as the hardware I used.

http://pierandsurf.com/photopost/data/500/Cannonball_Rig_007.jpg
http://pierandsurf.com/photopost/data/500/Cannonball_Rig_008.jpg
http://pierandsurf.com/photopost/data/500/Cannonball_Rig_006.jpg

[Sea2aeS]

hey jeff..... why you put a bead at the base of your hook on nigerian rig as well as line coming back through it like that????

[tom_s]

this is one of the finest, most informative threads to come along in a very long time.... Neil, hats off. damn fine, in depth, howto thread on catchin them drummies....:beer:

I nominate it for the bible section...

can i get anyone else to nominate it as well???

you have my vote!!!!!
thanks to Neil and NJ for the detailed info and pics...

[Newsjeff]

Sea2aeS wrote: hey jeff..... why you put a bead at the base of your hook on nigerian rig as well as line coming back through it like that????
I found that the Cannonball rig helos waaaay to much for me. I dunno if it's just me ... and my casting style ... or what. By leaving the tag end of the hook snell long, I can run it back through the hook eye, through the swivel on the fishfinder and loop it back through the bead. That keeps the sinker close to the hook on the cast - and prevents the helecoptering.

This is what Cdog was talking about in his post above.

I use a bead with my cannonball rig and leave a tag end after I snell.That is used to form a loop around the swivel to keep the bait and weight together better. Thanks to DD and Plug on that tip.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x47/1fisher/bead002.jpg

Sorry pic is so big, still trying to figgure out the photobucket thing.:rolleyes:


Here's a diagram that Plug posted on Fishmilitia that explains it.
http://pierandsurf.com/photopost/data/500/longtag.jpg

[TugCapn]

REMEMBER......A knot is only as good as the person tying it. Take your time make sure it's right, 99.5% of the time they hold. Always check your leaders after you bring them in even if your just doing a bait check/change......PEACE OUT.:fishing:

[sand flea]

I don't want to move it just yet since there may be some more good info added, but this one is definitely headed for the bible. Excellent post.

[dirtyhandslopez]

Thanks for the explanation and tip Cdog. And yes, that is an excellent thread.

[Fishbreath]

Nice post Neil. Definitely bible worthy. See ya on the beach in the Fall :)

[Shooter]

Great thread and I will sticky this one for a while *with Dr Bubbas permission of course* and then it will flow into the Bible of knowledge.

[Firespyder7]

So J hooks and holding the rods? Or do you spike it and use the J hook and then slam it home? I do not use J hooks on my cannonball or fishfinders, or on anything else anymore for that matter.

But I have yet to beach a big drum.

Cant speak for others but I use J hooks and hold the rod. I also spike with J hooks.

I've used the C-Ball Rig all this year so far and the end of last year with good results.
One thing I have done different is instead of the swivel attaching my shocker to the "Dropshot". I use an albright knot. I tie it with 40# shocker to 100#
P-line Co-polymer dropshot. I do use a bead above the whieght because the weight can go above that knot if I dont use a bead. Ive had good luck with the rig so far.

I still use a fishfinder rig at times and it serves a better purpose down this way towards us (SENC) Because of the make up of the beach and the likelyhood of needing a longer cast is not near as important.

Nice thread Niel-Even for the AC:D

[NTKG]

also, forgot to mention. keep your shockleader as short as you can. the bare minimum should be the length of your drop and some wraps around your spool. the longer your shock the more likely you are to have a knot slap guides and reduce distance.

i know some folks like to have a shock go from a few wraps to the length of the pier to each his own!


the one thing that is NOT in question is if you are using a FF rig or Drum rig... YOU MUST PUT A BEAD ABOVE your coastlock or mcmahon. Even in a cannonball without a barrel swivel, unless your knot is big you do need a bead.

[Drumdum]

Nice post,Neil.. Glad to see you're open minded aproach to circles-J's,fishfinder-cannonball.. There are also a few other rigs that work from the ole days.. Three way swivel-"Norman rig" (dropper loop hi-low)..
There is also one other rig not mentioned from "moderntimes"... The splitring rig.. I have never used this,but some have with great success..

[beach_chic]

wow, that is alot of information. It will take me awhile to learn this. The pictures really help. I cant imagine what I would be picturing in my head if the pictures were not there to explain it.

[Mahi Mahi Mike]

Excellent post NTKG! Lots of great info!

A lot of people use a Modified Albright or an Alberto Knot to join the running line to the shock leader. For Red Drum fishing, is there any advantage (or disadvantge) in using one of these two knots instead of the Bimini Twist/Spider Hitch and Double Nail Knot/No Name Knot combination to join the running line to the shock leader?

[kmw21230]

nice post... very educational..

[NTKG]

Excellent post NTKG! Lots of great info!

A lot of people use a Modified Albright or an Alberto Knot to join the running line to the shock leader. For Red Drum fishing, is there any advantage (or disadvantge) in using one of these two knots instead of the Bimini Twist/Spider Hitch and Double Nail Knot/No Name Knot combination to join the running line to the shock leader?


a doubled mainline and a good knot is much stronger than a single single knot..

[Railroader]

Nice thread Neil...THIS is what P&S is REALLY all about. :cool:

GO A/C!!! :p

[Mahi Mahi Mike]

The extra strength of the doubled running line makes a lot of sense. How long should the loop or doubled part of the running line be after tying the Bimini Twist?

[AtlantaKing]

The extra strength of the doubled running line makes a lot of sense. How long should the loop or doubled part of the running line be after tying the Bimini Twist?

IMHO, it can be tied as long as you want, although I aim for 6" (so that both legs are 6" long) and connect it with a no-name. When this wears down a bit (say, after 50 or so hard casts), cut it as close as possible leaving as long of a doubled line as possible, and then tie a back-to-back nail. Drumdum suggested this so that you wouldn't have to be retying the BT as often. :)

[TreednNC]

IMHO, it can be tied as long as you want, although I aim for 6" (so that both legs are 6" long) and connect it with a no-name. When this wears down a bit (say, after 50 or so hard casts), cut it as close as possible leaving as long of a doubled line as possible, and then tie a back-to-back nail. Drumdum suggested this so that you wouldn't have to be retying the BT as often. :)

Probably the most time saving tip Kenny's give me :)

[Nserch4Drum]

IMHO, it can be tied as long as you want, although I aim for 6" (so that both legs are 6" long) and connect it with a no-name. When this wears down a bit (say, after 50 or so hard casts), cut it as close as possible leaving as long of a doubled line as possible, and then tie a back-to-back nail. Drumdum suggested this so that you wouldn't have to be retying the BT as often. :)

THE only issue I have tyin' the bimini is the semi-frayed? end that is below the loop and towards the main line. Most of my break offs, especialy with BT's are right there. I should re-tie more often....I don't have the same concerns with spider hitches.

[AtlantaKing]

Personally, I'd just as soon retie the BT: it takes me no more than a minute to retie it, and it gives me a bit more confidence in the knot. I save the time by pretieing up the terminal tackle rigs.

Actually, I also had a thought for a "quick replace" rig--terminal rig plus the appropriate length/weight shock leader all tied up and neatly coiled in a bag. All that need to be done is a quick BT, tie the completed shock leader on, snap on a weight, hook some bait, and it's game on. This way, after every retie, it ensures that the entire shock leader and terminal rig is fresh and not all scuffed up. :)

[in2win]

THE only issue I have tyin' the bimini is the semi-frayed? end that is below the loop and towards the main line. Most of my break offs, especialy with BT's are right there. I should re-tie more often....I don't have the same concerns with spider hitches.

I tie a spider hitch and uni to uni that has passed the Drumdum test...

Easy to learn and tie in the dark .

CATCHEMUP,

Mike

[Andre]

Can you give more details ..Rods, line , wieghts,and bait ..what's best ?

Looking for ur input !!!!!!!!

[Drumdum]

Personally, I'd just as soon retie the BT: it takes me no more than a minute to retie it, and it gives me a bit more confidence in the knot. I save the time by pretieing up the terminal tackle rigs.

Actually, I also had a thought for a "quick replace" rig--terminal rig plus the appropriate length/weight shock leader all tied up and neatly coiled in a bag. All that need to be done is a quick BT, tie the completed shock leader on, snap on a weight, hook some bait, and it's game on. This way, after every retie, it ensures that the entire shock leader and terminal rig is fresh and not all scuffed up. :)

AK,I pretie the cannonball rig.. If you have a few of those pretied in the bag,it's tie em on,attach sinker and go.. I have found that by using this rig,you VERY SELDOM have to retie shock to mainline.. The 125 on the cannonball takes all the abuse of the 8oz pounding down.. Most times I have found the frays and bad spots on the shock to be the last 2 or three feet.. The shock stays in good shape tied above the swivel of the cannonball.. I still check my shock very often,but have to change it out much less..

[Mahi Mahi Mike]

Other considerations aside, when comparing the Bimini Twist to the Spider Hitch and the Double Nail Knot to the No Name Knot, which of these knots goes through the rod guides smoother? I'm looking for knots that have the least adverse impact on casting distance.

[vbflyfisher]

Mahi Mahi Mike, the shock knot needs to be low enough profile, not to really get more distance but to keep you from blowing up your reel. the knot hits the guides sometimes and makes a huge mess.

[Mahi Mahi Mike]

That's very true vbflyfisher, especially with a conventional reel. So to re-phrase my question, I'm interested in which of these knots will cause the least amount of trouble when casting.

[Cdog]

I have never tied the bimmini to double nail knot combo but have tied the bimmini and spider hitch to no name. The bimmini only came out slightly slimmer but thats because I have trouble with the bimmini.

I use the spider to no name because I tie it very well and can do it in the dark,sleeping etc. BTW I haven't had an issue with knot slappage and I use the tiny fugi lowriders on one of my rods.

[Mahi Mahi Mike]

Thanks Cdog. I'll have to sit down and practice tying all of these knots and go with the ones that I can tie the best.

[TreednNC]

Thanks Cdog. I'll have to sit down and practice tying all of these knots and go with the ones that I can tie the best.

Hit the Bible section up for a stupidly simple bimini that AK posted

[Nserch4Drum]

per this salt water mag article I was reading....an 8-12 turn bimini [ mono ] is stronger than a 20+ turn bimini.....

Been using a 15 turn knot....pulled in a lot of grass a few times - the knot has held, but haven't put it on a biter / car hood test,

Knew Wormy was saying that fewer turns made a bimini stronger....is less more?

Sorry...had to stir the pot.

[AtlantaKing]

I tie the Bimini to double nail/no name and it works well for me. All of the shock knots are going to be a bit "fat" due to the inherent thickness of the 60 or 80lb mono but if tied correctly, they should be smooth and pass through the guides fine (unless you have itty bitty guides :p)

DD, I usually pre-tie all of my rigs, from the fishfinders to the cannonballs. I also stole a page out of NTKG's playbook and tie a 3' section of 125lb mono at the end of my shock leader for the weight to slide on if I'm running the FF rig. Do you tie a swivel on the end of the cannonball rig to tie the shock to, or do you just back to back nail it to the shocker? :)

[NTKG]

That's very true vbflyfisher, especially with a conventional reel. So to re-phrase my question, I'm interested in which of these knots will cause the least amount of trouble when casting.

niether one of these have given me any trouble as long as my shockleader wasn't too long!

[Mahi Mahi Mike]

What happens if the shock leader is too long? :confused:

[Drumdum]

Do you tie a swivel on the end of the cannonball rig to tie the shock to, or do you just back to back nail it to the shocker? :)

I use a swivel.. Takes me a bit longer to tie a shock knot,and I really see no advantage over a swivel..The ease of taking one out of the bag,tieing a three wrap nail in the 50 to attach a swivel and the 2-3ft long 125 and slide on an 8 takes seconds.. Even with my eyes not what they used to be :rolleyes: it's an "inthedark" project.. :)

[Drumdum]

What happens if the shock leader is too long? :confused:

You can get line slapping the guides.. That stiff shock coming through can be a problem if it is too long.. If too long it can increase the chance of a knot hanging up.. If you have ever had a shock catch in the guide,you'll know what I'm talking about..:eek::D

[Mahi Mahi Mike]

You can get line slapping the guides.. That stiff shock coming through can be a problem if it is too long.. If too long it can increase the chance of a knot hanging up.. If you have ever had a shock catch in the guide,you'll know what I'm talking about..:eek::D

Thanks for the explanation and the advice Drumdum. I've heard that the shock line should be between 1 1/2 to 2 times the length of your rod, plus 5 or 6 turns around your spool. Is this too long?

[Drumdum]

Thanks for the explanation and the advice Drumdum. I've heard that the shock line should be between 1 1/2 to 2 times the length of your rod, plus 5 or 6 turns around your spool. Is this too long?

I use the length of my drop to the reel with 3wraps.. Some use more,but I like to stay with minimum.. Have been known,(when feesh are bite'n) to have trimed my shock down to length of rod and drop with shock knot outside the reel..:eek: Caught feesh too... :D
That's just a FHB'S pointa view though... :D:p

[Mahi Mahi Mike]

Have been known,(when feesh are bite'n) to have trimed my shock down to length of rod and drop with shock knot outside the reel..:eek: Caught feesh too... :D
That's just a FHB'S pointa view though... :D:p

Sounds like it would be worth the risk, especially if a blitz is on!

[Drumdum]

Sounds like it would be worth the risk, especially if a blitz is on!

It was,more than once.... :D