# Converting to the dark side - best reel?



## trowpa (Jan 26, 2006)

Ok - making the move to conventional...cant afford to be buying reel after reel, so I want to get something that is tame enough to learn on yet I can grow into as my skills improve.

so the requirements are:

1. Adjustable control preferably a knobby mag or something like the 525 mag conrol so i don't have to take the reel apart to change brakes.

2. Decent line capacity - will be using 17lb tri - no braid.

3. Forgiving for learning - i'd like to make a couple casts in between blow ups 

4 Budget - need to keep it under $200, but looking for th highest quality, long casting reel i can grow into for the price.

Some reels I've been considering are:

1. 525 Mag 
2. 30SHA w/ mag kit 
3. avet sx w/ knobby mag

Opinions of these? Is there an option I'm missing?


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

Any reel with a magnetic brake is forgiving during the learning process as long as you remember to keep the brakes on high.

Major blows ups don't usually happen when casting unless something becomes unteathered, like the shock leader. With a mag brake, you should be able to keep them from happening on a normal cast. 

If I had to pick from the reels I've tried, I'd pick a 525. 

If I had to do the learning process over again, I'd learn proper casting techinque first, instead of trying to find a reel that works with poor casting technique and then figuring out later that the reel wasn't the problem.


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## outfishin28 (Jul 15, 2005)

525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag       :fishing: :fishing: :fishing:


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## trowpa (Jan 26, 2006)

THanks Outfishin - so what is it about the 30SHA that makes you recommend it?  

Seriously - two votes for the 525 eh? Real world, how much 17lb tri will go on there 250? 275?

Capacity is really my main concern with the 525. Not that i'd ever need it, but it makes me feel better to have tons of line for some reason


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## John81 (Apr 24, 2007)

i prefer the sha30 holds more line than the 525 and i havent had the need to mag it . I hardly ever get a blow up they also come with brakes that are easy to install if you are worried about blow ups and there about 30-40 dollars cheaper than the 525.

just my .02 cents :fishing:


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## CGSurfCaster (Dec 27, 2006)

I converted about a year ago on a SHV 20 at the recommendation of a friend. Really solid real at a good price. The experiment turned out real well. I put in the red brakes, spooled up with 17#, tightened down a little, and went fishing.

You can gradually back off the tension until the spool wobbles as you learn. You can take off one red and put in a white as you learn. Been thru several trips now with no blowups. <knocking on wood>


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## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

The 525 Mag holds around 270 yards of 17lb Tri (250m of 0.40mm line).


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

525 MAG 300yds Gami 20
It holds enough quality line. 

On brakes don't make it harder than it is. Just go large until you are ready, you'll know.


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Funny thing about reel braking.

When you are starting out you need LOTS of braking to control the fluff generated from a not so smooth delivery.

As you improve the casting style you can work your way down (either blocks or mags) to less braking for improved distance.

After you have smoothed out the cast and start to apply real power then you start working back up on the braking scale. The acceleration generated on a hard (but smooth) hit requires more braking to control the fluff.

Kinda comes full circle.

Tommy


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## Gummy (Feb 24, 2005)

*Your right about that Tommy*

Just started experiencing what Tommy is saying. I have two SHV 30's , one Grandwave 30 and one Grandwave 20. Started with both red brakes and no side to side play in the spools. This worked good so I started leaving the spool tension pretty loose and got good at that. Then I started removing/changing brakes and using yellow RF oil. That all worked good till my last two trips to the beach. No problems with my two OM 12' or RS1502 but I was getting really smooth with my 12'6" RS1508. Every other cast I have a blow-up with that one rod untill I would would tighten the spool more than I had been doing. I had to go back to two red brakes AND heavier oil. So for I am getting better distance on the field than I had been.


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

525 super mag.
Or 525 mag with TWO EXTRA MAGS ADDED!!


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

outfishin28 said:


> 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag 525 mag       :fishing: :fishing: :fishing:


another vote for the 525- if anybody on here has a story to tell about being spooled on a 525- and thinks they wouldn't have been spooled on a Daiwa 30- I'd like to hear it. Line capacity really shouldn't be an issue unless your making 175+ yd casts.

I use both but my 525 sees far more action than my Daiwas.

The 525 is hands down the winner for a beginner to learn on- just MHO


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

525 mag...


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

*Daiwa*

525 can be fussy ... little sand and it can give you fits .... I have two Abu's and a Daiwa 30 sha all with no mags and no problems ..... The Abu's are easy to tinker with and the Daiwa's are bullet proof


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## trowpa (Jan 26, 2006)

Thanks - keep itcomming -No votes for the Avet? (playing devil's advocate)..

I think i may just hold all in my hand and go with my gut....


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## toejam (Jan 28, 2005)

Avet is a great reel to fish with when tuned correctly,,, it is very fast,,, not a good first conventional,,,,, 525


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

*Pa*

trow ... where in Pa do you live ?


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## Sea Level (Nov 20, 2005)

525 Mag!! I've had a goodly number of them and have had no problems with sand or moisture. I also like the Avet SX, but agree with Toejam -- it should not be your first conventional.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Agree with the others on the AVET

Your question was which reel is best for a BEGINNER to learn on

Not which reel was ultimately the best reel to own- shoot there all worth owning.:fishing:

and you'll never outgrow any of them


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## trowpa (Jan 26, 2006)

Surf Cat -understood. Not having gone through the learning curve / maturation process yet -didn't know if enough magging would make the avet tame enough to be comparable with the others. in other words, if it is JUST a matter of slowing it down enough.

Sounds like the answer is no...headed to the local store after work today to check out the diawa again. I guess I am just attracted to the perceived workmanship and quality of the avet (made in usa as well). But it doesn't matter how beautifully made it is if I can't cast it.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*trowpa*

one reel I didn't see on your list is the 

Abu 6500 mag elite- it offers the ultimate amount of control for learning- up to 6 brake blocks can be employed- dual spool tensioners for centering the spool- plus a very workable mag system. 

It now comes with upgraded cabon drag washers.

I know some will consider it on the small side, but this is one friendly casting reel straight out of the box- I removed all 6 of the brake blocks and just rely on the mags and spool tension/ bearing oil to control speed.

IT's a worthy candidate and will cast a long, long way. And I think it wil handle big fish no problem- tho I've yet to get out there and fish it yet.

As for the AVET- any reel can be tamed with enough magnets- but if your looking for out of the box simplicity- the Penn 525 or the Mag elite are better options


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## trowpa (Jan 26, 2006)

Cool - yes i've never been close to spooled before, but for some reason i have this fear of small capacity reels (overly optimistic of my luck i guess?)

As for the "out of the box simplicity" - that's not a concern for me - as I am fortunate enough to have nice friends who are experienced in magging reels (including knobby's on the avets). What I'm concerned is the end result (after the modifications).

Anyway - I'll check the abu out too. Thanks.

I'll report back my impressions...


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

trowpa said:


> Cool - yes i've never been close to spooled before, but for some reason i have this fear of small capacity reels (overly optimistic of my luck i guess?)
> 
> As for the "out of the box simplicity" - that's not a concern for me - as I am fortunate enough to have nice friends who are experienced in magging reels (including knobby's on the avets). What I'm concerned is the end result (after the modifications).
> 
> ...


That sort of changes things - the access to friends issue I mean- if you are confident in their ability to do a proper knobby mag on an avet then I see no reason to not go that route if your so inclined. Let us know how things turn out.

:fishing: 

I will say this about the new mag elite- I've only had mine out casting twice now, no mods straight out of the box- I am hitting the same distances I get with my super modified, seriously upgraded tournament reels that I spent over $500.00 on.


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## ffemtreed (Mar 29, 2007)

I am just learning the dark side and I started with the 525. It has been a great experience so far. Only a couple blowups that where my fault.

I have recently purchases an Avet SX to try out, but I am waiting till I visit my parents in early June who have a drill press to mag it. Other than drilling a straight hole, magging the AVET is SO simple. When my friend (trowpa's friend as well) showed me how to do it, I couldn't believe it was that easy. 

My vote is for the 525 for just learning. It has done me well.


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## trowpa (Jan 26, 2006)

Ahhh Jim - i thought you already had the sx magged....hurry up - i want you to be my guinnea pig


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## jcreamer (Mar 6, 2001)

I started this spring with a 525 mag and enjoy the heck out of it. I had a couple blowups when I first started but that was operator head space.


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

I started with the 525. I love it. Hard to blow up on setting 8 unless you slip in the cast (wet slimey thumb lol)...Funny thing. I used to throw it on a 4 most of the time...cleaned it and cant get below a 6. I think I need to check the mags That being said, I have a 20sha that I held a grudge against but LOVE now. I like the smaller capacities like the 525 and the 20sha but one good blow up and youre worrying about what you might hook up to next after you pick and cut it out...but yes 525mag for a starter...or any level. Ive yet to see anybody throw one on a 0-2 setting


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## trowpa (Jan 26, 2006)

Just got back from the local cabelas...gotta say the diawa and abu felt pretty "cheap" compared to the avet ...they (for some reason unknown to anyone)no longer carry the 525s?!? duh cabelas!

Would have liked to have the 525 there as well to compare side by side....but at least i've played with those before.

Thanks everyone for their input - looks like worst case i make the wrong decision and someone on here gets a good deal on a barely used reel


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

*pretty abu's ....*

avets are nice from what seen and heard but very fast ... I seen one of thier commercials where the up tied off to a car and lite the tires and he holds oh the the rod and reel with it a screaming .... tuff drag and all that
Bling .... Daiwa and Abu's are workhorses ...

But all are top reels 

Line compacity smallest to largest 
abu 6500
penn 525
20 slsh or sha
abu 7500
daiwa 30 slshor sha
not sure where what Avet finds in here


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## TimK (Apr 6, 2007)

avet sx or mxj


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

*My opinion*

I have all three reels (I'm such a freaking Hoe!)
This is based on my personal opinion...

dawia 30 shaaka biggirl) ($100) Extremely smooth, hardly ever had birdsnest issues. One of the best reels I have ever owned. If you glue two mags in the spool it's even better... TRUE WORK HORSE!!! I personally think the sha20 would be even better.

Avet sx\Knobby: (Club Chic)(180+ Upgrade = 260) BEAST! it's too new for me to really judge, but it seems to have the best drags in it's class. It cast with the best of them.. but I dont think it's very freindly for rookies!!! 

Penn 525 MagTrophy wife) OVERRATED! (140+) People make this reel out to be the end all be all of open face reels. NOT!! it's a nice reel, but I don't think it's any better than the SHA's. 

Crazy Anology's!!!

Dawia: Is that cute heavyset girl that loves you, and will worship the ground you walk on.

Avet: Is that Pretty party girl that wants to settle down and have a family. So you marry her in hope she settles down... every once in a while you see the wild side...

Penn 525: Is that Trophy wife that looks good on your arm, but can be the biggest headache. 

LOL


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## fishbait (Nov 11, 2005)

kmw21230 said:


> I have all three reels (I'm such a freaking Hoe!)
> This is based on my personal opinion...
> 
> dawia 30 shaaka biggirl) ($100) Extremely smooth, hardly ever had birdsnest issues. One of the best reels I have ever owned. If you glue two mags in the spool it's even better... TRUE WORK HORSE!!! I personally think the sha20 would be even better.
> ...


He he he... That's one of the funniest reviews I've read lately!


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## fingersandclaws (Oct 17, 2005)

> dawia 30 shaaka biggirl)


I don't do big girls. I don't care how cute she is . . . jello's not my bag baby.



> Avet sx\Knobby: (Club Chic)


I don't do day spas or salons. Them pretty party girls will party a little too much one of these days and you'll end up in a custody battle and 1/2 your tackle will be gone.



> Penn 525 MagTrophy wife)


Ain't nuthin' wrong with a trophy wife!!!!! When she gives you problems, put her away and take out trophy wife #2.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

LOL! that funny Fingers..


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## EugeneChoe (Aug 11, 2006)

big girls need lovin too.

so one time i dropped my daiwa in the sand, then the water washed over it with the sand. i turned the spool and all i hear is grinding and the spool getting all caught u. i cut the line to switch reels thinkin it was cashed out till i cleaned it. then i get a, why you puttin it away, i say sand, then i get it snatched from me and neil spins the reel real hard. it was smooth again....all fixed. 

hope my story helps someone
eugene


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

Daiwa's Rock



EugeneChoe said:


> big girls need lovin too.
> 
> so one time i dropped my daiwa in the sand, then the water washed over it with the sand. i turned the spool and all i hear is grinding and the spool getting all caught u. i cut the line to switch reels thinkin it was cashed out till i cleaned it. then i get a, why you puttin it away, i say sand, then i get it snatched from me and neil spins the reel real hard. it was smooth again....all fixed.
> 
> ...


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

Mr. OFW, that's the worst story I've ever read. 

BTW.. go with the daiwa, you won't regret it.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

who's OFW?



CrawFish said:


> Mr. OFW, that's the worst story I've ever read.
> 
> BTW.. go with the daiwa, you won't regret it.


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## EugeneChoe (Aug 11, 2006)

teo you stink! i know my stories suck, but your gonna have to listen to my stories alot in a couple weeks.

i like my daiwas, but i kinda like my penns too, but i know first hand daiwas can take some abuse.


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

kmw21230 said:


> who's OFW?


That would be EugeneChoe, the One Fish Wonder.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

Why didn't you guys come to the Spring fling? I was hoping to meet some of you VA boyz..



EugeneChoe said:


> teo you stink! i know my stories suck, but your gonna have to listen to my stories alot in a couple weeks.
> 
> i like my daiwas, but i kinda like my penns too, but i know first hand daiwas can take some abuse.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

One Fish Wonder! Thats funny..



CrawFish said:


> That would be EugeneChoe, the One Fish Wonder.


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## mantriumph (Sep 12, 2006)

Stock Squidder,,,once you are able to control it,,,you are the darkside.After that,its all simple,actually easy.


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

Another vote for the 30SHV. For the price/performance/quality it's the best surf reel made, IMHO.

I like my 525mags for stripers, but don't use them for drum or cobia. Not enough line capacity for my taste, espically in a crowd.

I'm starting to like my knobby magged Pro Gears (501 and 551) more and more. I haven't put them to the test with big fish yet. Still too early to tell. Expensive, though.

I really like my Abu 7500C3CT and my 7500C3 that I converted. They cast great, hold lots of 20lb mono and they fight a fish very well since adding the Carbontex drag washers. I need to baby these reels more than most of the others. Expensive, too. 

Consider this:

Abu 7500C3CT and Carbontex drag washers = $250+. 

525mag = $150 but doesn't hold enough 20lb mono for me. I do love this little reel. Great gears and drag. I just wish Penn would make a 535mag based on its little brother. 

Pro Gears = $190 + $60 knobby mag. Still not tested on a big drum or cobia yet. The knobby will force ya to change your hand position when reelin', too. 

Avet = I sold mine for a Pro Gear. I didn't like the lever drag or the slow gear ratio. Nice reel if you don't mind this.

Squidder = put on the shelf as a collectors item. 

I've had the chance to fish with a Shimano Calcutta 700, but I've never owned one. Nice reel, but I can't say much about it. 

Daiwa 30SHV = $110. Great reel right out of the box. No fuss, no add-ons and built like a tank. Ya ain't gonna find a better reel that holds 300 yards of 20lb mono, fishts a big fish without breakin' a sweat and holds up very, very well.


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

Newsjeff said:


> Another vote for the 30SHV. For the price/performance/quality it's the best surf reel made, IMHO.
> 
> I like my 525mags for stripers, but don't use them for drum or cobia. Not enough line capacity for my taste, espically in a crowd.
> 
> ...



Called Danville today Jeff. Going to try to get that thing out whenever I ship fingersandclaws' rod


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## baitslingin (Jul 31, 2005)

TreednNC said:


> I started with the 525. I love it. Hard to blow up on setting 8 unless you slip in the cast (wet slimey thumb lol)...Funny thing. I used to throw it on a 4 most of the time...cleaned it and cant get below a 6. I think I need to check the mags That being said, I have a 20sha that I held a grudge against but LOVE now. I like the smaller capacities like the 525 and the 20sha but one good blow up and youre worrying about what you might hook up to next after you pick and cut it out...but yes 525mag for a starter...or any level. Ive yet to see anybody throw one on a 0-2 setting


i heard zombie tossed it on zero.... where da hell you at SHANE?????


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## John81 (Apr 24, 2007)

Newsjeff said:


> Another vote for the 30SHV. For the price/performance/quality it's the best surf reel made, IMHO.
> 
> I like my 525mags for stripers, but don't use them for drum or cobia. Not enough line capacity for my taste, espically in a crowd.
> 
> ...




i love my calcutta great reel i learned on my 700, i liked it soo much i now own a 700,400, and a 200 but i still vote a dawia 30 unless u got the money to dish out for a 700


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

baitslingin said:


> i heard zombie tossed it on zero.... where da hell you at SHANE?????


Not sayin it cant be done. I just dont know anybody personally that can do it. Maybe JAM. Idk. Id like to see it cleaned and with some red RF oil in it before hand tho...no thumb til the end of the castopcorn:


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## Carolina Rebel (Aug 25, 2005)

mantriumph said:


> Stock Squidder,,,once you are able to control it,,,you are the darkside.After that,its all simple,actually easy.


That's my vote, or a jigmaster or a beachmaster, or surfmaster. Learn to cast with one of those and the rest are easy. Its like starting driving with a straight drive car.


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

Carolina Rebel said:


> That's my vote, or a jigmaster or a beachmaster, or surfmaster. Learn to cast with one of those and the rest are easy. Its like starting driving with a straight drive car.


Learning to cast with a Squidder is like learning to drive in a garbage truck with four flat tires....


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## trowpa (Jan 26, 2006)

Wow - thanks everyone for the input - some REALLY entertaining replies too (I love the girl analogy).

Looks like I'll give the party girl a shot that promises to be "settle" down through the use of not only a knobby mag, but also static mags that i'll have in while learning with the goal of removing them once i'm confortable and using just the knobby mag. 

I know its not the safest choice - the fat chick(diawa) would be safest,so i'm prepared for the learning curve - if i just can't hack it, I'll sell it and get a diawa. 

Thanks again everyone - can't wait to get on that practice field!


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## Carolina Rebel (Aug 25, 2005)

Surf Fish said:


> Learning to cast with a Squidder is like learning to drive in a garbage truck with four flat tires....


I thought about it, and you've got a point. Starting with almost anything unmagged would be the equivalent of starting with a straight drive car. 
haha Garbage truck with four flat tires is a little harsh.....My Jigmaster doesn't suck terrible bad, though I confess it mostly just sits around waiting for catfish now that I've got 2 525 Mags and a couple Ambassadeurs. Thinking about it, I would say the Jigmaster (and Squidder and Surfmaster) is the .30/30 lever gun of surf conventionals, not great but a good entry reel in that its a highly accessible means of fundamentals acquisition. I know when I first considered a conventional for surf fishing the idea of spending $100+ for a surf reel seemed ridiculous. I know better now, but you've got to start somewhere.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

Where are you located? If you're in maryland your more than welcomed to try all of mine..



trowpa said:


> Wow - thanks everyone for the input - some REALLY entertaining replies too (I love the girl analogy).
> 
> Looks like I'll give the party girl a shot that promises to be "settle" down through the use of not only a knobby mag, but also static mags that i'll have in while learning with the goal of removing them once i'm confortable and using just the knobby mag.
> 
> ...


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

TreednNC said:


> Not sayin it cant be done. I just dont know anybody personally that can do it. Maybe JAM. Idk. Id like to see it cleaned and with some red RF oil in it before hand tho...no thumb til the end of the castopcorn:



It's easy to cast on Zero- well not impossible under good conditions at any rate. I've done it and with yellow rocket fuel in brand new ceramic bearings

A hint more spool tension, a bit of a nice tail wind, mags on zero and let fly with a smooth delivery.

Keeping in mind pleny of people add extra mags, this allows for less of a setting from the get go.

Also a zero setting does not indicate no mag effect- just that is the minimum mag effect available- without pulling out some of the mags.


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

mantriumph said:


> Stock Squidder,,,once you are able to control it,,,you are the darkside.After that,its all simple,actually easy.


Absolutely right, MT...

Learn to throw a Squidder, FIRST, and then you can cast ANYTHING you pick up.

Mags or not...


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## EugeneChoe (Aug 11, 2006)

i actually learned to throw with no breaks in the daiwa, not cuz i wanted to but because im a du du duh, and the make shift brakes i had to make for it were stationary and not sliding around like they were supposed to. 
i dunno i guess it helped me a lil to learn that way. i guess someone could throw on zero, absolutly, my buddy and i did not knowin, with spool tension and my thumb all over it. guess it helped me learn how to thumb a spool....i still blow up all the time. but man after someone finally showed me and set my reel up the way it was supposed to be and i had my first cast where i didnt have to thumb it...money haha. now why would i wanna headach of throwin without brakes!


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

trowpa said:


> Capacity is really my main concern with the 525. Not that i'd ever need it, but it makes me feel better to have tons of line for some reason


Then the 30sha would be the reel for you just add the red brake blocks and your goo to go


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## Awesome John* (Dec 23, 2003)

*My experience has been*

the 525mag without heavy mags "added" is just "asking for it "

get some radio shack magnets and you can use it.. but its not a great learning reel.. abu 6500 sports mag is your baby.. One of the most trouble free long casting reels in the world...

a joy to use will last you a life time with propper care.. a legendary reel... then buy a penn 525


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## trowpa (Jan 26, 2006)

Just figured I'd give everyone an update on this thread - I ended up with a knobby magged avet sx.

Tried it for the first time this past weekend and it was actually easier than I expected. Some fluff, but no blow ups - now I just need to gain enough confidence to start adding some power to the casts. I like being able to adjust the mag infinitely as I get more comfortable. 

I appreciate everyones advice here - but i had to go with my gut and the avet just felt right.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*good to hear*

We all have opinions  but ultimately your the one who has to live with your decision- sounds like it is going to work out just fine.

Thanks for the update.


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