# Apache Pier Shark Bite



## b3butner

First let me say I am very sorry the young lady was bitten. I hope she recovers well. However when you enter the ocean anywhere you are taking a chance. There are sharks all over the earths oceans, shallow water as well as deep. There can even be sharks in fresh water. Entering the water near a fishing pier increases your chance of being bit. Going in chest deep is even worse. To make this worse we are talking about a section of coast that the local government has overriden state laws and made shark fishing illegal. Well now has this helped? I don't think so. I believe there are more sharks than ever. If we were allowed to keep sharks we would be removing sharks between 54'' and 84". I believe the shark that bit the young lady was estamated at 84". OK does a pier really attract sharks? Sure, they are opportunistic feeders. Does the king fishermans live bait attract them? Probably not even though we have hooked them before. What will attract them is fish remains (of any kind) thrown over the side. I was at the pier 9/3/04. I had a nice keeper spot tail on. I was waiting for the drop net to be dropped when all of a sudden a large shark grabbed my fish. He hit my fish 3 times before I could get it up. It was about 6' to 8'. I'm no expert so I can't tell you for sure what kind it was. I do believe however it was a bull shark. Shark attacks are nothing new. I just hope people are not going to start this king fishing and pier fishing causes shark bites.
If you enjoy going in the ocean please educate yourself and your children. In closing if the chamber canceled the tournament on account of this attack shame on them. Us fisherman and our families spend lots of money in your county or at least we did.


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## emanuel

Shark bites are just a risk you take when you go into the ocean. However, the reason shark fishing is banned in many places is because of the people it attracts. Sure there are people like you and me who like to fish for them but then there's the idiots who have no idea what they're doing and putting themselves and others in harm's way. On top of that, they're slobs and make the rest of us look bad.


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## kendurham

*Shark Bite*

I have not seen this post before and apoligize for a late response, however the girl bit by the shark was my daughter and I feel the need to set the story straight. 

She was not swimming near the Apache Pier, we were Staying at the Hilton and she was in front of the Hilton in waist deep water, I believer the pier is almost a mile south of the Hilton. In addition the attack took place on Saturday and the Horry County Police released it to the press on Tuesday after the Labor Day weekend was over. The life guards offered no assistance, their comment was they could not touch my daughter, we had to wait for the police. When we got to the Hospital the police tried to convince us it was not a shark bite, only after Dr. Lark said it was definitely a shark did they back off.

The next day we were told by other vacationers that the life guard was telling everyone that my daughter was cut by a surfboard fin. Later the life guard came over to us and told us that she had been instructed to not tell anyone that it was a shark bite.

We were home when the news people found out about the attack. My opinion is that the people at Myrlte Beach and Horry County were very nice but tried very hard to make everyone think it was not a Shark and then that she was swimming near the Pier. We never understood why the Pier was always mentioned. It is just like the movie Jaws, don't upset the tourist.

Ken


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## the rhondel

Holy crap!...we were at the Hilton last week.....last year,from my balcony, I saw a large shark about 700' off the beach and I think someone was bitten at Sandbridge a week later.........I can understand why they would try to play it down as that whole Kingston Plantation section is privately owned and the Hilton and Kingston itself cater to the upper class(no smart remarks please).....the R


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## Big Worm

Shark fishing is illegal? From the beach? From all the piers? From boats? So if I have my 11' heaver and my fish finder with my 6oz and my bunker head trying to get one, I will be fined, jailed?

Fill me in guys. I did all my shark'n on AI and HI.

Thanks.
I have seen huge sharks around apache pier man HUGE!!


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## johnnyleo11

You can't specifically target sharks when fishing. This is common in touristy areas because they don't want to scare the money away. If anyone has ever fished in South Carolina, they know that there are plenty of sharks out there. I'm not sure about the local code in Myrtle Beach, but I know it was illegal to shark fish in Virginia Beach in the tourist areas near the hotels. I think it may still be.

There are plenty of signs at Folly Beach stating sharking fishing is illegal and not to use the drop nets to pull up sharks from the water. I have yet to check out the laws to see what would happen if your were found guilty of doing so. I fish for king mackeral too. Would I get in trouble for using the same kind of tackle?


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## Big Worm

I do not have set up that I use for shark fishn really. I have a set up I use for striper and drum fishn though and I catch a lot of shark on it from the beach. What if I am using that fish finder and start getting into a mess of sharks? Do I need to cut the line on the beach? Where do we draw the line? I am out there throwing bunker chunks trying to land stripers and reds, I can't help it if a black tip or a doggie comes by and helps himself.

Not to mention the nice pullage on a slow night.


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## MBsandflea

Shark fishing, using big chunks of bait or whole fish, is illegal in Horry county only. It is also against the law to beach or bring onto a pier anything of a size big enough to injure someone else. You can get ARRESTED for it, not just a ticket, but arrested and fined. It is legal in Georgetown county and across the state line in North Carolina. King fishing is not considered shark fishing because of "bait presentation." Lining a live fish into the water on a trolley or floating it under a balloon (which isn't allowed on most piers anyway) does not cause the slap or smack against the surface that a casted fish does, nor does it put the fish on the bottom, stun it or injure it. 

In my experience, the problems with shark fishing are usually caused by tourists themselves. Typical scenario on any pier is that once the cast net opens and the fish fall someone grabs several and throws them out whole or cut in half. Once they can see a shark, they have to do it constantly for the thrill. More and more come in, fishing becomes crappy and they get their jollies by seeing a shark. As someone who kingfishes I find them to be an annoying waste of tackle, drags and time. Trebles, leader and swivels are not cheap. Use my typical response when asked if I've seen any sharks today..."Yes, there are lots at the corner of 29th and 17 Bypass! Go to Ripley's Aquarium and see them safely without ruining our fun."


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## Big Worm

Sanflea, where I am from outside of ocean city MD we use chunks of menhaden or menhaden heads to land stripers or red drum from the beach. I would imagine this same thing would work from the beach here, no? Would I get in trouble do this in the fall say around the jetties at hunnigton beach? (is that horry county? or gorgetown) I would think that the reds would be up and down the beach in the early fall here, looking for some chunks to snack on. I hope you are not thinking that I am out and about trying to get all the sharks in MB to gather in your holeman. I am just trying ot figure out the rules on this one.

Not fishing the chunks of bait form the beach is that just a day time thing or is this an all the time thing?

I always follow the rules and regulations posted. Most often I will let fish go that are legal I am there to have fun. And damnit fishing is fun.


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## johnnyleo11

MBSF,

I'd have to agree with you that the tourists try to catch sharks and make it miserable on the pier. Too many novices trying to cast in a small area when they see a shark down there. I do remember showing a baby shark to some kids on a pier that were down there with their father. The kid asked why I was throwing it back in the water and they father interjected by saying, "So we can catch his big daddy tomorrow!" Let's see, another 4 kids and their father taking space on the pier. Oh well, I suppose they paid their fishing fee too.

Another problem I have is with the crowd that gathers around you a little too close when you have your rod bent. Next thing you know, you try pulling the fish over the side and you almost whack somebody that's not paying any attention. I guess sharks would attract a larger crowd and somebody could get hurt. Perhaps the No Shark Fishing law is for the protection of the pier so that there is no liability on the pier if someone does get hurt by a shark.


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## Big Worm

I can most definitly see why the pier would not want people fishing for sharks. And I agree with you it gums up the works and kills the bite. I knew about the rules on the pier just was un aware about the law from the sand.


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## Fox Watersports

*Sorry your daughter got bit Ken,*

Hope she's ok.

What people need to realize is that contrary to what all the eco-shark-lovers are saying to the public, the population of sharks is exploding along the east coast and gulf, due to the combined net-bans, restricted long line areas (including all state waters), turtle exluding devices on shrimp nets that work better excluding sharks than they do turtles, and a miniscule large coastal shark quota and miniture openings............There just aren't the numbers of sharks BEING HARVESTED as there used to be, whether incidentally or direct fishery... As the small coastal sharks such as bonnetheads and sharpnoses has soared, we're seeing the benefits of a large food sorce, i.e. a booming population of Black tips, Spinners, Bulls, Duskys, Big Nose, Sand Bar, Lemons, well, you get the picture.

Stand by, they're only making more.............


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## MBsandflea

Huntington is in Georgetown county, so using larger bait chunks for Spottails would be okay, on the other hand it is a state park so it may vary within it's limits. Shark fishing is illegal from an area within Horry county unless you are three miles off shore. The main purpose of this is apparently to prevent tourists from seeing the one thing they all think is the greatest thing in the ocean, a shark. No gaffing, netting, beaching etc is allowed. Sharks prey on baitfish like kings, spanish and cobia do, so they also follow schools of bait. Problem is, they are opportunistic and stick around as long as someone is tossing something over for them to eat. Much like wild dogs, feed them and they stay. I've seen a school of Menhaden (pogies or bunker) turn a one shark show into ten because everyone thinks they are neat to look at. If they aren't intentionally fed, they tend to move on.

As for the crowding, it is horrible. Everyone wants to see what you have, but none seem to understand that if they back up everyone can see it up close rather than a couple see it as it pulls hooks and swims off. I use as many tricks as possible without hurting someone to get them away. Mommy will pull Johnny away very fast when she sees a clumsy fool waving a gaff around like he doesn't know how to use it while explaining how the big hooks hurt. For the most part I've figured out how to deal with the crowds, it's just the one or two inconsiderates who ruin the bite for the rest of us I can't stand. Anyone can fish for and catch a shark, and most don't even have the equipment to do so. But baiting for and landing big fish like Kings, Spanish, Cobes, black and red Drum etc...takes a real fisherman. I'd rather be on the pier or beach with that guy any day.


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## PJnc284

I love the way the major tourist areas try to play it off like there are no sharks there and no one gets attacked. It's all about the $$$ and that will always come first. As stated earlier, there are way more sharks around than everyone thinks. I fish on Oak Island in North carolina, and it's nothing to see several 5 or 6ft sharks swimming around the king rigs. heck we've even hooked more sharks while king fishing than while shark fishing at night. I hooked a 5fter and pulled it to the surface and the hooks pulled. And wouldn't you just know there was a tourist looking right over my shoulder. Next thing I know is that the hooks were sitting on her shoulder, didn't go in though. The look on her face was priceless.


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## noah

*The Misguided*

The Horry County, SC shark fishing ordinance reads in its entirety...............
" It shall be unlawful for any person to bait, fish for or otherwise attract a shark to with-in one half mile of the beach.
Having first hand knowledge and experence with the out come of this silly ordinance when an angler becomes subject to it I felt compelled and it also imperative that I respond here to this thread.
The first Factual matter at hand concerning the ordinance is ...................................

Fact: Land based, Surf or Pier anglers are the only persons subject to having the ordinance apply to their recreational fishing in Horry County.

The issues of implementing the ordinance upon the backs of boating anglers even with-in yards of the beach in Horry County is an impossible task.

Fact:The Horry County Police Department does not patrol the beach lines by watercraft nor do they own any. Their department has no Marine fisheries Staff either (anyone trained in fish identification). The State of South Carolina has never directed through legislation or mandate, the passing along of the sole duties or responsiblities of the Department of Natural Resources to any County including the self labeled " Independent Republic" of Horry County.

Fact: The South Carolina Department of Natural Resources is the only legislatively funded, endorsed, and promlugated State Saltwater Marine Fishery Law Enforcement Body in South Carolina.

Fact: The Horry County law was poorly written and with-out exception it never occurred to the designers of the simple one sentence Horry County ordinance that Selective Enforcement would be questioned. I have.

Fact: The landing, taking of and possession of Sharks of the proper size (some 54"-84") and specie is perfectly legal under Federal guidelines and the SC Marine Resource Act of 2000. These taken from the highwater mark of the Atlantic Ocean ( Horry County beachline) out to 3 miles. This legal zone includes "to with-in one half mile" of the beach. Including all of those in Horry County, South Carolina.

Fact: the Horry County ordinance should be labeled (anti-shark fishing ordinance). It is just that. But to a greater degree and with absolute clarity "anti-legal fishermen", no matter your prey.

Fact: Both legal and illegal species of sharks many hundreds of those over and undersized under federal and state requlation are caught, landed, kept, cleaned and eaten everyday in Horry County, South Carolina. The majority from the fishing Piers that line the beachfront in the jurisdictional areas of Horry County, South Carolina.

Fact: This one sentence Horry County ordinance in reality makes, " All Legal" Saltwater fishing activities "ILLEGAL" in Horry County, SC. Its simple fact that an angler must " fish for, bait and otherwise attract" in order to accomplish their intentions of "catching".
Does'nt matter their targeted specie whether Mackerel, Spots, Flounder, Sharks or etc. 

Fact: The U.S Supreme Cout has stated.
" No law shall be so ambigous that men of common intelligence defer on it's application".

Fact: That statement applies to Horry County Ordinances as well.

This one is certainly worthy of anglers taking indifference with".

Fact: I have and won!


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## emanuel

I once saw a bumper sticker that read "Anyone can catch and kill a shark...Real sportsmen fish for real sportfish."

I used to fish for sharks until I found out the joy of fishing with light tackle as well as the bliss that comes with putting a large flounder on the deck. 

Too many people, I think, fish for sharks because it's more of "look at me, I'm a badass" kind of deal. Alot of people I've dealt with who fish for sharks really don't know how to catch much else.


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## Big Worm

If I went out to get a shark it would be to get some nice pullage and to hook a nice fish. Not to think of my self as a "bad ass". I know a couple of guys the target them in the heat of the summer on assateague when there is not much else happ'n. They have sea yaks and speacial gear just like the guys that target kings on the peirs around here. When falls comes around they go right back to striper and drum fishing. So I would not put all people in that category. I am sure they are out there though.


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## noah

*Your Right/s*

No indifference to the Conservation issues anyone has with todays fisheries...... 

The fact is anglers don't set the mandates, nor the regulations, size restrictions, specie qualifcations, bag or catch limits.

Including and Concerning those in the issue at hand "Sharks". Nor the legal guidelines set at the State level during legislative desisions in deciding what can and can't be caught via line and hook. 

The issue anglers should concern themselves with are the inherent rights given to them under the South Carolina Constitution and their willingness to abide by the South Carolina Marine Resource Act of 2000.

The earlier outlined by those charged with the duties that protect fishermens futures of remaining just that. "The Saltwaters of the State of South Carolina shall remain a common of the people for the taking of fish". There are non mentioned before or after that apply to the activities of tourist using the fishermens resource. Nor are there any that supercede this being the law of the land in South Carolina coastal saltwaters. Including Horry County.

The Forefathers Of the Great State of South Carolina nor those that have followed through the Hallowed Legislative Halls choose taking these inherent rights improperly from the many generations of fishermen whos attempts are to continue a simple desire "The taking of Fish". Today regulations include many species of Sharks that are indeed wonderful tablefare. Certainly worthy of notation. Today these fishermen provide many millions of dollars of funding through licensing fees, taxes and economic support to the many South Carolina coastal communities and as well fishing related businesses. It appears these Forefathers successfully practiced the art of using Wisdom. The application of those inherent rights exist today to all fishermen plying both luck and skill.
No matter what Mother natures provides intentionally or un-intentionally upon their hooks. It would seem an even greater impossibility legislating such occurrances.


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## MBsandflea

Sounds pretty clear to me. You can't bait, fish for or attrack sharks purposely. As I said before, the difference between fishing and shark fishing is all in bait presentation. People can argue as they wish to the clarity of the law, but getting caught will still end up in an arrest, fine and possibly jail time.


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## Big Worm

MBSF,

How do you surf fish for red drum around here?

Is a fish finder rig and a slice of fresh minhaden correct?


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## MBsandflea

To be perfectly clear on the subject of "fish for," I only fish for things I directly intend to consume. I will consume bycatch provided it is legal and it's something I enjoy the taste of though. That being said, I don't fish for spottail at all. I will, however, slice, dice and cook one if I do catch it. Any I've seen caught were all on cut bait and by chance. Of the several large ones, only two were caught on large chunks and the others were on regular size bait for bottom fish. I know in some areas in NC, VA..etc. large spottail are a targeted fish but none of the people I fish with intentionally fish for them because regulations (15" to 24") make it hard to catch a keeper. 

Apologies, but I can't really provide accurate info for catching spottail because I don't fish for them. If you do wish to know how to specifically fish for Spanish from the pier I can help you with that one.


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## Big Worm

I release fish all the time. I go to Buxton and fish to point a couple times a year and fish for the big drum and stripers and would never want to keep one. I take my boat and get legal stripers and let them go to live and breed another day. I live to fish and be a part of the sport. Yes I do keep some fish, some time but I let most go, especially spot tails and stripers.

I guess what I was trying to say by my early statement was that the way I fish for stripers and drum up north is illegal to do here for the same fish? Seems weird? All do to the fact that I mgiht hook a shark.

But I will say this, I would love a lesson in spanish slay'n though


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## noah

*Illusions of Grandger*

Quoting MBsandflea,
"As I said before, the difference between fishing and shark fishing is all in bait presentation"

Do What?


The presentation of any bait large are small. alive, dead, whole, chunk, strip or piece, big hook or little hook, long rod or short rod, 12 lb test or 100 lb test line, large capacity reel or small capacity reel has absolutely nothing to do with what mother nature has to offer. It has nothing to do with natues design that all things eat when their hungry. What ever and when ever they make the choice. It has no bearing on the ablitity of any specie of fish or "shark to impell it's self onto any such baited device. Neither does ones self created image that they are the master of the art of angling or natures domain. You may target a certain species by what ever means you choose. Fish have'nt a clue of the methdoligy you believe increases the opportunity. Your rigging sends no signals to any of the other many species of fish you may not wish upon your baited hooks that may by happen chance swim by in search of an easy meal. It is unfathonable one would think belief deters what eons of self preservation and survival assures the real masters of their domains.

The Horry County ordinace as well fails to establish what honest and humble fishers could do while just going fishing that would'nt attract the cycles of nature to set themselves in motion.

Lets for bantering sakes say........ you MBsandflea were targeting the highly sought after yellow belly "Spots" . A fine coastal offering using........ the bait of the majority of coastal anglers "Bloodworms". While plying your advanced talents of catching only these, using your highly skilled targeting methods and rigging. Those you refer to that would eliminate any posssiblity of any other by-catch.....an 8 ft Tiger Shark swallows a "Spot" that happened to be attracted to the magical hooks on your rigging. Would you inturn be in violation of Fishing for or Baiting for and Attracting clauses of the single sentence ordinance? How would you explain to an untrained Horry County Beach Patrol Officer that may have never spent a moment in his/her life coastal fishing that your not guilty? What Proof would you offer in your defence?


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## emanuel

The way to differentiate the way you fish for drum and the way one would target sharks is all in the leader. When fishing for drum in the surf, I use a #80 mono leader. I almost never use wire except for kings, wahoo, and the occasional shark. If you have a mono leader, anyone with any sense could tell you weren't fishing for sharks.

Right now, I wouldn't mind catching a shark. In fact even a toadfish would be sweet!


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## Big Worm

Emanuel is right about that, if you are out there with a big ol' steel leader and a half a king mack you are shark fishing. A 50# shocker and an 10/0 circle hook and you are drumn'.

We can all agree on one thing a 5' black tip or spinner would be a heck of a lot of fun in a 3' surf right about now.


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## noah

*Mines bigger than yours*

Absolutely Ridiculous........and further the issue at hand is "Shark fishing in Horry County, SC. Steel leaders used in King Fishing are perfectly capable of landing sharks on. So are # 2 and 4 trebble hooks. Old school King rigs also include using a combined Mono and Steel leaders many anglers still use them. Sharks are landed on these as well, often.......Very.....VERY Big Sharks.....................right from Apache Pier too!

^The single one sentence ordinance does not define the type of equipment nor rigging including wire or mono in the interpretational implementation writings that would seperate two twin brothers fishing ........one using 41 lb test steel leaders and a #2 circle hook and the other using a #2 circle hook and 300 lb test mono. In determining whether either or both fall with-in the scope and intent to violate the simple.............fishing for, baiting for or attracting issues. These that could in all probability lead to the arrest of either or both for simply fishing?


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## Big Worm

Yeah but Noah don't you as a fisherman know what you are fishing for? How much of this lies with you? I am not saying you are right or wrong.

Well since I live right here at the beach I might have to go down and see if I can get a shark to cooperate. Anybody think they are around 78th Ave?


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## MBsandflea

To take things to a level of claiming that a shark grabbing a reeled in fish is to be considered shark fishing is asinine. Go to any pier, turn on a cleaing table spigot and begin slapping, not tossing, SLAPPING chunks of bloody fish or whole dead fish into the water and you are baiting for and attracking sharks. One would have to assume noah that you are a shark fisherman by you clear intent to breaking the law down to a minute detail in an effort to make everyone else with a rod and reel be like yourself.

Shark fishing involves aspects that do not typically occur in other forms of fishing...blood chumming, slapping, slinging, and stunning of fish, rigging whole fish on bottom rigs, cutting live or dead fish and tossing them bloodied into the water etc....if all fishing were to be construed as shark fishing, charter boats wouldn't specifically target sharks with charters..such as Capt. Dicks does. 

I do agree with emanuel on two counts...rigging does show a differential AND anyone can catch and kill a shark. It takes a real fisherman to catch something that doesn't eat anything in the water.


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## MBsandflea

Big Worm, if you fish from a pier you can really cut into the Spanish bite by using a simple bait and leader trick. I use one king rig with a bait that a king is more likely to take..a bigger menhaden or greenback, pinfish, blue or mullet and another rig that I put out just for spanish. Same setup as a king rig but a slight leader and bait adjustment. 18lb Sevenstrand leader with the smallest trebles you can buy (these are barely the size of the nail on your pinkie finger). Tie the swivel off with a figure 8 knot (a simple, fast tying knot that tightens with pressure), run a foot or so of leader then tie off the first treble with a figure 8, measure a thumbs width of leader and tie off the second treble with a figure 8. Hookup a finger mullet or tiny greenback and run it down just like you would a king bait. If you don't king fish you can also run it down like a Jackson rig. There's also a trick there to keep the fish from swimming over and tangling your main line. Get a small spool of cheap low pound test line, tie a swivel to the end and tie a small rubber band between the locking swivel on the leader and the one on the small line. Wrap the line around the rail so it won't feed out, when the fish hits the rubber band breaks and you simply pull in the fish, retrieve the other line and run it back down. The lighter line is just holding your bait in position on top of the water instead of allowing it to swim down the main line and cause tangles. 

The key to the entire thing is the smaller bait and almost invisible leader and hooks. Make sure there is no overlapping loop in the leader between the hooks as Spanish can see it. Works like a charm every time. Though your catches will be in the 2' to 3' range, I've caught a large number of 5' or better fish with this rig.


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## Big Worm

That is a lot of riggin. I think I would have ot get a hands on lesson man. I have only ever thrown sting silvers for them in the surf. I have jigged for them from apache once but no takers. I have never king fished before so I amnot familiar with that type of riggin' at all. Altho it looks intrigin' to me I must say. Do kings ever come in close? like form the surf? Do they always hit surface baits?


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## noah

*Father forgive me............*

Okie Dokie! I've got to clear the air...............but first!

Mbsandflea, your words in this sentence matches my sentiments exactly......Quoting you from your previous posting"
"To take things to a level of claiming that a shark grabbing a reeled in fish is to be considered shark fishing is asinine".... end qoute.

And young man could you please advise me to exactly what "something" you refering to in the below sentence? I'd love watching someone of your angling caliber spending a day fishing for what ever this "something" is that does'nt eat anything. How would you catch it.....bare hands?

Qouting you again...............
"It takes a real fisherman to catch something that doesn't eat anything in the water."........ end qoute.


It's obvious your new to, fishing, the Myrtle Beach Area saltwater fishing and the Ordinance issue/s...That very same senario has happened and you can/will be offered arrest if you ever find yourself in that position. "Remember the ordinance interpretation is left up to approaching Officer".


and further......................


Yes, I am an avid fisherman primarily targeting Saltwater fish. King Mackeral and Flounder. Many of the thousands of other anglers who know me by name can attest that I have an equal appreciation of both the sea and the seaman. The love of both began 35 odd years ago.

No, I do not directly target sharks nor have I ever intended to increase the odds in my favor. I realize it happens each time a bait of any sorts is tipped upon my hooks into the briny sea. Though there have been occassions that they have found and placed their affections towards the Live Bait upon my hooks. Those were generally released alive if at all possible.

No, I do not believe that choosing to target Sharks and retaining those mandated legal as tablefare an ethical issue between my desires and those of another angler. Some anglers eat pork others don't. The issue of hiding an educational issue from tourist inside a mis- construed ordinance.............compares to tossing the baby out with the dirty bath water. Anglers deserve better. Their paying for it. 

Yes, I'm an avid conservationist. Pro-active in preserving the natural resource and as well fundemental anglers rights in having access to it and using it.

Yes, I use steel leaders while King Mackerel Fishing. I use steel treble hooks too!

Yes, I'm guilty of attracting all that nature may provide me upon those same hooks as well. Cobia and Chopper Bluefish are among those, I know they are not my targeted species of tablefare. It seems illogical that I dispose of the legal keepers of those and they do make for wonderful meals. I suppose theres times when it's better to be lucky than go home with-out my targeted fish..empty handed.


I believe you should have that choice as well.

And Yes, On occassion I have shared the bounties of the sea with another angler who's choice of tablefare had replacing rows of teeth. Forgive Me of my sins. "For I am a Fisherman" ..............That is a Coastal One........Noah


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## emanuel

I have nothing against shark fishing. However, I do have something against people who cannot find it in themselves to target anything else and use it as a way to thump their chests and prove what a "big man" they supposedly are. I even saw a guy take a #3 pompano and chuck it out for bait claiming that it was a jack. Needless to say, any persuasion on my part that it was a tasty pompano fell deaf upon his ears.

Unfortunately, I have run into far too many people who fall into that category and perhaps that taints my vision of sharking.

When I first moved to Savannah, I ran into a guy who used to have a 12/0 reel spooled with #150 braid and would have someone jetski or kayak out a small shark for bait about 500 yards out and then wait for "Jaws" to come along. Needless to say he one day put a 12ft shark on the deck and proceeded to gut it on the spot, made a big scene about and was promptly banned forever. This is the kind of people I'm talking about.

I personally don't care what is on the end of my line as long as it pulls good or possibly tastes good. My problem is with the people who think that catching, killing and showing off a shark somehow makes them cool.


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## noah

The same application could apply to those who hunt deer. Most satisfied with a hunt that concludes with the bagging of legal gendered tablefare. Others are trophy hunters.........seeking bigger racks well positioned for points. Theres nothing evil about either quest. Hunters and Fishers were and are rewarded for trophy sized kills. Awards and Citation Documention are an every day occurrance. Well excepted forms of beating ones chest or tooting ones own horn so to speak. We may not all agree with the reasoning behind such activities but it's imperative that we support having choices. There something many take for granted until there missing is noticed.

The legalitize of a Poorly written and virtually un- constitutional County ordinance founded on the same principals as those who supported burning witches at the stake..................is the issue. Plain and simple.............

Horry County knows it as well.................some one has to remind them their being watched on occassion as well.

If not there would be hundreds of arrest daily for violations of this silly law.


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## Marion

*I agree....*

I see where Noah is coming from.... He's not talking about an issue with "stick-out-my-chest-bad-a**-sharkers". He is addressing an issue of loosing an inherent right, to a blind-sighted regulation, imposed by a local government who's issue is tourist dollars. Management is the responsibilty of marine professionals, housed with the Department of Marine Rescources, not some county council members whom haven't the slightest idea as to what bait, rigging, etc... is likely to attract the "terror of the tourist".

Noah is addressing poor regulation, imposed irresponsibly. He's not implying that he condones "billy-bad-a**" that, with intent & purpose, beaches an 8' biter around a crowd of kids. 

Give Noah a break guys, he's just trying to defend the inherent rights our founding fathers secured for us.


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## noah

*Kinship*

Marion, I appreciate your comments, they hit the issue and my personal standing on them right on the nailhead. I can assure you theres plenty of other anglers
fishing the Horry County market that agree as well!.......Tight Lines & Sreaming Reels.....To You My Fisherman Brother


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## MBsandflea

Actually noah, I'm not "new" to fishing, Myrtle Beach, saltwater or otherwise. Your question about "anything" shows your ignorance (proper definition is "not knowing" in before you accuse someone of calling you stupid) of the English language would simply tell anyone else that you don't know how to interpret the context of a sentence when applied to an overall topic. So, I will explain....A shark will eat "anything" in the water. Be it a crab, squid, shrimp, other fish regardless of type etc. A mackeral, tuna or other game fish will not. Apply the entire topic before trying to knock someone down.

Furthermore, exactly what part of the law says you can't take home a bluefish or cobia (provided it's of legal size)? Once again, your arguements are circular and being applied to things that don't have any application to the law. Like I said, baiting and attracting sharks involves completely different techniques than other types of fishing. Surely someone of your stature in the fishing community posseses this knowledge. 

The law is the law, whether it be interpreted by yourself or anyone else. You may have the right to shark fish or keep sharks, as long as it's within the law. Doing things that attract sharks and nothing else within the limits of Horry County is against the law. By your standards of lawful application to this topic, your rights of free speech would also allow you to yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater.

And watch who you're calling "young man," you don't know me from anyone else. Please keep your patronizing remarks to yourself. Personal attacks during a debated topic show weakness in the debator.


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## PJnc284

BigWorm- http://ncstatekingfishing.ds4a.com It would seem like a lot of work but it's actually not, it just requires more rods and a slightly different rig.

MBsandflea- To start off I know Noah personally so your ranting is a bunch of rubbish.

Your arguments look like a bunch of gibberish to me and make no sense. One who knows much about sharks know that it isn't necessary to go through use any special techniques. Mutilating the bait isn't necessary. The sharks are already there so there's no need for blood chum, it's useless and stupid. As you stated, sharks will hit just about anything. Heck I've even caught them on gotchas and gold hook rigs. 

Cutting a fish up to use for drums could also be considered shark fishing. You're not specifically targetting them but anyone with a little common sense knows that you're likely to catch a shark. There is nor never will be a fool proof way to catch only a specific species of fish. 

The ordinances are used to protect the tourists image of their destination. The areas are money hungry heaven forbid anyone see what is actually swimming around your feet when you step out into the waves. They will do anything to cover up what's really there. That's basically all it comes down to, that 5 letter word. GREED.


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## noah

*Knocking the Pot that labeled the Kettle Black*

Quoting Mbsandflea ..........."A shark will eat "anything" in the water. Be it a crab, squid, shrimp, other fish regardless of type etc. A mackeral, tuna or other game fish will not. Apply the entire topic before trying to knock someone down.".end qoute.

Do what? It appears you don't believe that any other species of fish "will eat anything in the water" and that only sharks will. Thats a silly and ill founded belief. Your postings show a lack of a knowledge base concerning coastal saltwater angling in it's purest and simplist form. And yet your willing to jump feet first in something your have no obvious experence with.

Lets for a moment consider the face value of your own typed words...................

"Sharks will eat "anything". 

Lets be clear that no indiffences are taken with that statement being wrong on my behalf. I'll agree, Whole Heartedly.

With-out any further clarifing needed.............
You yourself are agreeing as well that the one sentence Horry County ordinance makes all Saltwater fishing illegal.............The ordinance once again reads................

"It shall be unlawful for any person to fish for, bait or otherwise attract a shark to with-in one half mile of the beach"

The "anything" your refer to includes the anythings you reference using while King fishing like it or not. I'm please to see your finally admiting that your fishing for sharks............which means your as well guilty of shark fishing like it or not. Guilty of "Baiting and Attracting as well" .........like it or not. 
Just because anglers label the activities on the "Tee", "King fishing", a shark remains clueless and will eat the same bait.........like it or not. Your believing and arguing otherwise does'nt change a fact of nature.

It's also true that no Pier in Horry County, SC extends out into the water further than 1250 odd feet. Which also means your " Shark Fishing", "With-in one half mile of the beach".....Like it or not. Including while fishing Apache Pier.

You might ask an Horry County beach patrol shark enforcement officer if thats a nautical mile or a land measured one. Theres a difference.

Qouting you once again......." Surely someone of your stature in the fishing community posseses this knowledge".....Why thank you for noticing.

Now if you' ll indulge me while I'll attempt sharing a little basic knowledge most coastal jr anglers themselves are aware of with you...............

King Mackerel among many other Species of Finfish eat the same items you yourself are stating that "Only Sharks eat".

In fact all Mackerels, including those that you target from the pier in Myrtle Beach are directly related to the family of oily fishes known as "Tuna". This includes both King Mackerel and Spanish Mackerel. 

Several other species of fish common to South Carolina coastal area waters are primary feeders on shrimp and crabs. Just to mention a few.......they are Red Drum ( more commingly known locally as Puppy Drum, Redfish, or Spottail bass. Tarpon, Flounder, Whiting, Sheephead, Spadefish, Black Drum, King Mackerel, Spanish Mackerel, Bluefish, etc.


Its worthy of noting that Ling fish or the species of fish many anglers catch while live baiting for King Mackerel from the Pier are more commonly known locally as "Cobia". This particular species of fish is widely refered to as the "Crab eater". Which indeed is a Cobias Favorite meal. 

Squid are among the top dietary items in a King Mackerel or Spanish Mackerels diet.

Shrimp are eaten regulary by the Majority of all species of FinFish including those above......... you can argue until the cows come home they don't..................doing so does'nt change fact. In fact sharks love to eat them too.

Whether you agree or like it ..........Bluefish eat Bluefish, Kings eat Spanish, Spanish eat Kings, Spanish eat Spanish, Bluefish eat Kings, Kings eat Bluefish and Kings eat Kings..............These are top predators in the coastal food chain as well.............Sharks eat all of them and Sharks eat Sharks..........like it or not. They'll do so right from the very same hooks and rigging your using while King Fishing whether you like it or not.

I have applied the entire thread topic to logic and believe me your involvement ..............isn't taken as a personal issue. Unless you refering to the great laughs I've enjoyed having bantered with you.


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## MBsandflea

Break it down as you wish, you know it isn't going to change. There's a difference between intentionally and accidentally hooking a shark. Tackle, bait and method shows intent, that is enough to be found guilty.


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## shaggy

MBsandflea said:


> Break it down as you wish, you know it isn't going to change. There's a difference between intentionally and accidentally hooking a shark. Tackle, bait and method shows intent, that is enough to be found guilty.


Guess I'll jump in here, open my mouth and maybe piss off a few people out there.

From the surf on AI, and the beaches of Delaware and NJ, but AI is home fishing territory for me, so here is my set up for Spring/Fall striper fishing:

10 1/2' - 11 1/2' rods
15 pound main line mono
40 pound mono shock leader (about 2 1/2 rod lenghts and for turns onto spool)
50 pound hook leader 6" - 18" depending on wind and current condidtions)
6/0 -12/0 Gami circle hooks (6/0 and 8/0) Owner (10/0 and 12/0)
Bunker chunks, heads and peeler crabs for bait.

Now, coincidenatally have caught my share of bluefish, red drum, black drum, sand sharks, black tips, king, croaker, cownose rays and clearnose skate, probably forgetting some, all on the SAME setup, same presentation. Most depends on the season and water temps, not the rig or presentation.

July and August is sharkin time on AI, and "purposely targetted" them on recent jaunts to the Jersey shore.

Anyhow, guess, since we (or at least I target my fish the same way, 'ceptin peeler crabs is better drum bait), sounds like I would be in a "HEAP of trouble" in SC for my presentation, well, no, mono to hook as opposed to wire when sharkin'.

Do take offense to your "real fisherman" comment though, and maybe you have never tried to land a 5' or better shark, 120 pounds or more from the surf on 15 pound main line, 40 pound shock leader and 50 pound hook leader, all mono, but will say, it takes patience, finess and yes, probably lots of luck to bring one in, close enough to remove the hook or to cut it off at a decent length, ie. short as safely possible.

Yes, will keep an occassional "keeper" shark for some grilling steaks, and one is all I need to last me most of the year, but will also say, even "targetting" sharks with my setup, have lost many more than landed, by broken lines, bitten hook leaders, or, tough skin weakening the shock leader.

So, guess since I have and can land a decent shark from the surf, and one of the best fights I have ever had as a surf fisherman, I am not a real fisherman, but have landed some nice sized stripers from the surf, some excellent fighting blues (best from surf 34"), and some fun fighting red drum and black drum.

Guess the answers to the questions are mute points, since in your mind when I fish the SC coast, I will eventually land myself a "go directly to jail, do not pass GO" trip.

The one sentence Horry County(?) law, is vague, and would make most, if not all surf fishing, illegal once a shark is on the line.

Also, have had people say to me that I am "attracting" sharks, and I say NOT, sharks roam very close to shore and all of mine have been caught wihin 100 yards or so from the beach. Think people would be amazed at the kinds and numbers of sharks swimming in our, OOPS, mean their waters (they were there first) if they would just open their eyes.

Now that I have spewed enough, I'll shut up, but will be in SC (Outside of Beafort, near Hunting Island) come next Saturday, and yes will do some fishing. BTW, just over the bridge back toward the mainland, there is a fishing pier where I have seen "FISHERMAN" target sharks with baits floated under the balloons, so is it legal or not, inquiring minds want to know.

Have Jeep will travel


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## noah

Qouting MBsandflea, "There's a difference between intentionally and accidentally hooking a shark. Tackle, bait and method shows intent.".end qoute.............



Wow! I was under the belief that King fishers used reel drag settings and quick releases or clips that are purposely designed to pre-set the hooks on a fish strike.

Now that I've learned something new..............and that is according to you they don't.. 

I suppose you can explain just how anyone whether surf, pier or boat fishing in Horry County could control the actions of any fish or shark they could'nt see lying in wait to eat a bait.....One that hooks it's ownself on any of the different riggings used from either of the above.

I suppose your telling me now that your actually holding your King mackeral fighting rod in your hand all day and setting the hooks while Pier trolley fishing? I'm interested in that method.............. I'm curious as well to the total numbers of King Mackerel you actually landed using these methods.........please be specific. 

What about the poor King fisher sleeping in his chair who's bait is eaten while he's asleep.........awakened by the buzzing of his clicker.....running to the rail....and realizing 3oo yards of line has already been stripped from his reel spool...............

How does he know for certain what he might have on ? That unknown creature is swimming 900 ft away and in the depths of the water....
you really can't see it a fit issue that he be offered arrest for shark fishing under the silly Horry County ordinance. Can you?

I personally believe that goes well beyond any intent or sprirt of any law......as well intelligence or common sense.

What would be the outcome if you yourself had something hit your bait while visiting the bathroom on Apache Pier........... returning to the rail and finding something tugging on your line 100 yards out?

By your description of un-intentionally or accidentally fishing do you believe your less guilty of shark fishing than the poor fellow sleeping in his chair mentioned above?

I've already considered that your using steel leaders, etc while King. I'm confused though by your previous descriptions that steel leaders are Shark fishing equipment............

What makes those legal in your application and not if Joe Smith wants to make his Flounder rig out of steel wire. 

Where in the Horry County Ordinance does it describe what others may or may not choose using as terminal tackle whether surf, boat or pier fishing in Horry County? What restrictions are there on using large capacity reels, high lb test lines, hook sizes, etc. No matter the varing species of fish targetable.

I was under the Impression the type of equipment
an angler chooses using would be what ever that particular angler desired or could afford using. 

Were in the Ordinance does it describe what types of Gear is Considered Shark fishing equipment only in Horry County, SC. 

You may very well save a visiting angler from arrest by sharing that information with us all.

My inquiring mind needs answers...............I'm planning a trip to Apache Pier for some ol'e lessons on King fishing very soon...........

I need to know what types and sizes equipment
I'll need to bring.......


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## johnnyleo11

I think the both of you need to cool it with the personal attacks and attack the real issue at hand. Yes, that law is extremely vague and too much interpretation and decision making is left to the law enforcement official. That law is not fair to the angler and the officer. You both make valid points, but you should be sending this info to county officials so they can either remove this law of ammend it. Perhaps this thread should keep going to see all of the people who are affected by the law to post their thoughts. You could use this as support of the cause of ammending said law.

This site doesn't want people directing their insults at one another with no resolve. There are other sites for that. You can keep your arguement going, but step off eachother's necks.


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## sprtsracer

Enough of this crap!!!


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## noah

*As the tides change*

Johnny............what insults? 

And what valid points in bantering this issue has MBsandflea made. 

Maybe the ones about...............??????

I can't recall any myself. Would you be kind enough to point them out for all to reconsider.

Until your ready to step up to the plate during one of those County Council meetings you'll never witness first hand the total lack of any fishing knowledge on behalf of the council members. By there own admittance their not fishers and the end result is a total lack of respect of anglers and their rights. Something worthy of arguing for until the sun falls out of the sky.

I've been there first hand and their heads are buried in the sand concerning the vaugeness of the
the ordinance. Even they can not explain what grounds the ordinance is founded on.

My attempts to enlighten others through first hand experence including anglers began long before this thread, it also comes from having been subject to the Ordinace and witnessing first hand other anglers having become subject to it. Others like myself who proved the ordinance was and remains unenforceable, ill written and serves no one. These points have served many others you may never meet.

No fines have every been collected from a fisher charged under this ordinance. No fisher has ever recieved
an additional day in jail or penality of any sorts other than the improper hassle via untrained Horry County Beach Patrol Officers with attitudes towards anglers that compare to them having pure distain for them. The threat perceived by anglers in fear of this ordinance is worthy of correction. It's affecting fishing and the relaxation one should enjoy while doing so.

The information or pointers offered through these message boards may very well serve another as a method of defending ones self if one becomes subject to it. Knowledge is power.

Having first hand knowledge of the mis-informed beliefs the Beach Patrol Officers use in implementing the Ordinace and considering their charged with enforcing the ordinance does'nt mean they should be allowed to interprete or add intent while doing so. Basing doing so on " just because the say so." and certainly not because the designers of it allows them to too. Justifing that reasoning on their own lack of knowlegde and passing the buck. Somehow making law makers out of Police Officers. This an impossiblity and certainly not Consitutional.

The Horry County Council is a legislative body whom themselves should provide the answers and solutions. The Problem is their not willing to take the time to educate themselves either. There also not suggesting or paying to train uneducated Beach Patrol Police Officers either in fisheries resource issues. 
The fact is the State already collects funding for that and is Legislated that responsibility through the Department of Natural Resources.

The issue is the Ordinance.......not personalities. Bantering with someone isn't an insult. Pointing out legitament flaws isn't either.


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## johnnyleo11

If you haven't notcied, the "enlightenment" has turned in to who knows how to be the better angler and has gotten off focus with the issue. MBSandFlea makes his own vaild points about what he sees is in the issue and how it affects him. However, it seems like the discussion keeps going round and round and the each of you are looking to knock eachother on little things here and there. Please peruse and you will see it if it has passed your eyes once before.

Quit being like a bunch of old women with the bantering.


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## shaggy

johnnyleo11 said:


> If you haven't notcied, the "enlightenment" has turned in to who knows how to be the better angler and has gotten off focus with the issue. MBSandFlea makes his own vaild points about what he sees is in the issue and how it affects him. However, it seems like the discussion keeps going round and round and the each of you are looking to knock eachother on little things here and there. Please peruse and you will see it if it has passed your eyes once before.
> 
> Quit being like a bunch of old women with the bantering.


Now, actually the only "who's the better angler" did come from MBSandFlea, and those of us who YES target sharks in the "off" months, may take offense, if you doubt the degree of skill and maybe luck it takes to land a decent shark, then go to the Florida board, the "Wizard of" Koz, is the sharkin man, and I'll be damned if anyone cannot call him a "real" fisherman.

The problem with the said ordinance is the vaagueness. Ignorence is no excuse for breaking the law, but when niether side really knows how to read said law or, in this case "Horry County ordinance", then how can it be enforced.

Personally, yes maybe a few "jabs", ut all in all a fairly civil discussion, and, well it's a free country, and if you can't, don't or won't appreciate the vies on said subject, don't read the thread, me, find it interesting as, like I said, I do target sharks when sharks are the only game in town, and yes, at their biggest from shore.

Have Jeep will travel


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## noah

*Enlighten me Please.*

Johnny, would you please clarify your statement and I quote...... "MBSandFlea makes his own vaild points about what he sees is in the issue and how it affects him".....end qoute.

I would in all honesty like to know what these are. Particular to sandfleas postings. I'm not trying to nit pick your statement either. Please don't take my questions that way. I'm not trying to insult you or your angling abilities or knowledge either. But you have refered to them several times now....what are they.

It's obvious, I'm missing something.

My personal concerns with the issue are'nt singular. They may effect fishers from every user group. Those include friends, family or stranger..........some un-informed others that have been given mis-information are among them.

I'm also not condoning challenging the ordinance while angling the M/B market either. 

All I'm suggesting is understanding it and having the knowledge base to defend yourself from it.

This isn't an ordinance designed on your having to do any thing improper or illegal to set it in motion. Mother nature provides that catalist........

Being prepared is all I'm saying.

I personally believe that anyone who may have it inadverently imposed on them wrongly. Can be righted.

That senario has played it's self out before..........The anglers have won. Yes I was one of them. Thats not in question.

The real cure to the cause and effect issues surrounding the Ordinance would be for the County to amend the ordinance by simply clarifing it. The problem is they don't care too.

I realize most persons on either side of the issue wished it would just go away.......it's not going to anytime soon. The impossiblity that sharks will just up and disappear from Coastal beaches would have a likelier chance of happening.

Neither are the anglers that care in seeing it corrected. 

Thanks in advance.......Noah


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## trekker

There were a piles of menhaden flipping on the north side of Tybee Island a week or two ago. They were everywhere. There were a few pods of dolphins making half hearted attempts corralling them but the dolphin were there waiting for the dolphin tour boats instead.

Anyways... Touros were in waist deep water and thought it was cool that the "potato chips of the sea" were tightly packed all around them. 

Unclear water, mouth of river, tons of bait and touros in the middle of all this. Accident waiting to happen. Of course nothing did happen as is the case 99.9% of the time.

The point to my story is that piles of bait and their hunters will attract more sharks than one dude fishing specifically for shark with a dead skate or bluefish. Rules and regulations "prohibiting" the fishing of sharks from our beaches and piers is in my opinion is just silly. In so far as “attracting” them by chumming, “slapping bait on the water”, using big baits is even sillier! The sharks are there anyways. By doing these things may bring a blacktip over the sand bar to investigate and hopefully pick up my bait. Place them into a “feeding frenzy” and thereby placing people at risk- I think not.

Maybe we should post some underwater signs around our beaches "No Sharks Allowed'. That would cause problems because the ACLU will say it is discriminatory...

Common sense is what is needed not ordnances. But if ordnances must be passed because common sense is lacking (the touros in my story) let us make them sensible and clear. 

Grilled blacktip steak, little lemon, salt, pepper... yum!


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## johnnyleo11

MBSF's point is that he's afraid to fish with a wire leader or anything that makes him look like he's sharking. There is a lot of hysteria associated with a vague law that can put a person in cuffs and get a fine or jail time and that's what I get from his statements.

Me, I tend to go overkill in the tackle I use. I use 50 pound flouro for my leaders with crimp sleeves. I do use some braided wire sleeves with nylon on them too. For the most part, I'm not catching monsters that the tackle is designed for. Could that be misconstrued as sharking tackle, sure. Do I specifically target them? No. Does the bracelet I wear to go on the pier specifically say "No Sharking" in bold block letters? Yes. I know the warden walking the pier isn't going to ask me to yank up my 6 oz's to see my tackle. And he knows for the most part people aren't out there looking to hook in to a toothy critter.

I'd like to thank you for all of the information that you've been able to disseminate. I'll probably keep some of it in mind if I do fish Horry County. I know we have a similar city code here and I know I'm not going to be locked up for it, but I know it applies to me.


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## berryc516

*Hello All!*

Well, just saw this line of discussion and thought I should comment. While I am only what I would consider a moderately experienced saltwater fisherman--thus do not have as strong of opinions as some on the board, I do know my way around the law. Many of the people on the board alluded to parts of the legal realities imposed by this law. The truth is that the standard of law used to determine whether someone was shark fishing or not IS manifest intent. However, as pointed out, this is somewhat subjective. A police officer would have a great deal of discretion in applying the law. However, in court, the standard of legal proof that would be required is "the rational person standard." Under this standard it would be very difficult to convict an individual (assuming they have even moderately competent legal counsel--the majority could win with self representation). Therefore, most law enforcement officers would seek to avoid this type of citation. This type of law is generally used as a measure to control individual problematic anglers--such as ones that are dumping buckets of blood into the water on a beach. Even under the most ambiguous of standards, this would interpreted as targetting sharks. All grey areas are typically safe from any danger of reprisal. Most officers do not seek to involve themselves in cases that they cannot win and therefore, will not pursue someone who is kingfishing or even using cut bait for redfish, spots or channel bass, whatever you want to call them--unless, of course, they have some external motivation such as personal conflicts .

In conclusion, as long as you are not chumming, running baits the size of a softball out with a jet ski or fishing with whole spanish mackerel that have been cut to pieces, there is little to worry about here. If it is obvious that you are pursuing sharks by one of these methods, you might have something to worry about.

PS--when it comes to things such as gutting a 12 foot shark in front of a bunch of tourists, please just think about things. Every fisherman serves as an ambassador for the sport--for good or bad. The reality is that the future of fishing depends on the general public's attitudes toward the sport. If someone sees 40 pounds of fish guts lying on a pier, that could very easily cause a member of the nonfishing public to adopt attitudes similar to those held by PETA--that fishermen (and women) are barbaric individuals. I am not saying that you should walk on eggs when you are around tourists, just remember that the future of fishing really depends on what they think.

No comments, advice or other representations in this post should be regarded as legal advice or counsel. The author bears no liability stemming from its application.


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## MBsandflea

"It shall be unlawful for any person to bait, fish for or otherwise attract a shark to with-in one half mile of the beach."

The ordinance, as stated, prohibits shark fishing noah. Not accidentally hooking a shark with bait intended for another species. As I stated before, tackle, bait and bait presentation make the difference. Common sense on the part of the angler can help differentiate the two. 

As well, common sense would also tell an angler that they shouldn't gaff and pull a five foot shark over the rail of a pier where it's been clearly stated that it isn't supposed to be done. But as we know, common sense doesn't always prevail. Such was the case with the "bystander" at Apache pier who was arrested for exactly this. Refresh my memory on this, wasn't a vast amount of time and countless dollars spent by someone to fight this law? What was the outcome? 

Bottom line, you yourself know there's a difference between intentionally fishing for sharks and fishing for other species. Didn't you learn that from the lawsuit?


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## MBsandflea

And no Johnny, I'm not afraid to fish with a wire leader. My one setup is a 6/0 spooled with 60lb Trilene and 60lb Sevenstrand with Kingfish trebles for a leader. The other is an Okuma TG30II spooled with 30lb Yozuri and a 40lb Sevenstrand leader with King trebles. Both are pretty much standard King Mack setups. The difference is the bait I use and way I present it. 

This entire discussion and case was fought in court and lost. Ask noah the outcome, if you're lucky he may even be able to give you the exact dollar amount spent on the wasted fight.


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## noah

MBsandflea, 

It appears that you are unwilling to digest the simple fact that.

I'm not a shark fisher. Or an angler that has ever bloodchummed intentionally for anything. Nor have I lost a single dime in any court action concerning this ordinance. No other angler has either. I have never spent a minute of time incarcarated either. The time I have spent beating the ambiguous ordinance has served others who themselves could have faced either of those outcomes. No individual has ever been found quilty in a court of law who has become subject to being charged under the ordinance. I'm not sure where your getting false information from concerning me, but being your posting it here. I'd love to get it first hand from the horses mouth but we can discuss that during my next trip there.

The facts are simple....................

The Ordinance applies to all Horry County saltwaters not just Piers like Apache. Signage on that Pier does'nt apply to the activites of innocent anglers plying their skills anywhere else.....so the issues not about only piers or gaffing...something you consider overlooking is the big picture. By the way gafts are perfectly legal tools for landing ones catch in South Carolina right along with all saltwater fishing including Shark fishing.

No angler in Horry County has ever been in the act of Blood Chumming when approahed nor were they using anygear or tackle heavier than 99.9 of all other anglers, King Rigs , etc. those include any angler charged under the ordinance.

Every incident of someone innocent having been subjected to the ordinance has occurred in Daylight hours not during night time hours. While dozen of other individuals watched and were in fact using the exact types of gear. Most commonly the exact gear your using while king rigging.

No anglers has every become subject to the law from a boat fishing with-in 1/2 mile of the beachline. Not that they should though many sharks are landed with-in a 1/2 mile of the beach from those.

In every incident those approached were using the exact baits you yourself have used each time you Kingfish. Bluefish whether 6 " long or 10" long. Menhaden, Spot. etc.

In every incident those who have become subject to the ordinance were using the same or similiar brands and sizes of Reels, Rods, hooks, wire leader, swivels, and line sizes. You yourself use.

In every incident that someone has become subject to the ordinance these anglers were using the same methdoligy, intent, and motivation. Simply fishing.

No enforcement officals are on duty during night time hours while the act of blood chumming with large bloodly baits, etc are actually occurring. Including those happening regularly on Apache Pier.

Many Sharks continue to be landed on Apache Pier both during Daylight hours and Night time Hours from 10 " to 10' long. Those anglers participating in those activities either are unaware of the ordinance or choose to do so because they do not agree with it. Hiding and sneaking the activity as best they can. Its a pure shame they have reduced themselves to that level. Both of these groupings could become subjected to the ordinance though. There is were the problem lies. They could help remedy the problem by becoming pro-active.

This ordinance is being selectively imposed improperly on Pier and Surf Anglers. knowledgable, Honest and Ethical ones thats all.

Its obvious you don't care. Thats fine. I Do.

Qouting you ........."Bottom line, you yourself know there's a difference between intentionally fishing for sharks and fishing for other species".


Your absolutley correct, thanks for agreeing.......

The shame is you recognize that, but fail to do so yourself....That I may never understand and would'nt waste a second worrying over either......Oh well!


Oh! Maybe you can explain with some clarity. I'm confused and need enlightenment.......... please bare with me..........

Qouting from your last postings "The ordinance, as stated, prohibits shark fishing noah. Not accidentally hooking a shark with bait intended for another species."......... end qoute

How them would a Shark know what fish you have your mind or intentions on catching whether un-intentional or Intentional ?

And even more important what tangable proof as a defense would you offer a Horry County ordinance enforcement officer watching your fishing activites through binoculars from his/her beach patrol window ( which they spend many hours doing so each day) or standing right next to you while your fishing that your mental intentions were any different than an angler using the exact bait and equipment right down to the size of hooks when all of a sudden a Big 6 ft Spinner Shark jumps up from the oceans depths, swallows your bait and at the same moment your neighboring anglers bait is swallowed by a King Mackerel all in clear view of his/her line of sight, that you were'nt " fishing for", "Sharks" ? It would seem obvious to me you had fished for, baited, and attracted to with-in inches sharks. 

Additionally.......The Ordinance does'nt mention anywhere in that sentence about it being in effect during any certain hours. No exclusions are included in the wording. I would assume it's a 24 hour ordinance. Yet Sharks dominate Coastal Waters including those in Horry County and in very High concentrations around Piers like Apache most often after sunset.

Why then....... is it being selectively enforced only during daylight hours? Fact is the Beach Patrol is Off Duty before dark.....when the really BIG Sharks are fished for directly by blood chumming and landed off of Horry County Piers. Most often from Apache Pier your regular stomping grounds. 

I must commend you on the self observation being that nothing posted by you concerning the issue has obviously been truer and more applicable to you than and I qoute........."But as we know, common sense doesn't always prevail." end qoute.

I suppose Abraham Lincoln clarified it best when he said, "These Thruths Shall become Self Evident"

Im Truley looking forward to spending a day fishing there with you soon .............Noah


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## Fox Watersports

*For the record................*

Tunas and Mackerals will eat ANYTHING they can, just as a shark will.

During our winter giant bluefin opening we have found everything under the sun in their stomachs, the best one being 17 pounds of silver dollar sized calico crabs. That particular tuna dressed 314 pounds..............


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## Railroader

I've kept silent....but ten trips around the same circle is enough.......

Let's branch off in another direction, please.

Thanks guys.
RR


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## noah

This is a very important issue locally......fishers are losing something important. Well worth bantering. It appears at nearly 1000 hits the thread has some ones attention that may benefit by it. I will make no further postings here regading it ....Thanks Noah


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## Railroader

I realize the local importance, all I'm asking is that someone break the circle....Too many big long posts saying the same thing over and over....

If there is more debatable material that hasn't been covered already, then let 'er rip, I'm all for it.... If not, then it has served it's purpose. Just doin' my job....and a little late on this one it seems. I'll try and pay better attention.

Thank y'all.
RR


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## emanuel

I'll put my final two cents in and try and summarize this whole arguement.

A couple years ago, someone was arrested for violating this Horry County ordinance. Whether or not this was justified is debatable and certainly subject to completely different interpretations and opinions.

I really don't think an officer is going to arrest someone, especially a tourist, who accidentally lands a small shark that eats their piece of shrimp that they were fishing for whiting with. 

Nor is anyone going to give you grief for fishing for drum, or even kings for that matter. Most people who fish off these piers for kings and drum are known to the management of these piers. When I fished the piers of Myrtle Beach, the owners of these piers knew who I was and never was I given any grief for releasing the occasional hapless small shark that ventured onto my bait. These same piers chose to turn a blind eye to the ordinance as long as the situation (and sharks) did not get out of hand.

I really, truly believe that this ordinance is there for a couple of reasons. One, to make it seem like there are no sharks there. If Myrtle Beach had no tourists, it would wither away to nothing. Number two, it gives pier owners some leverage to keep the people who go over the top with their shark fishing off their property.

By the way, I have tasted the goodness that is Kozlow's shark steaks and boy are they good.


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## shark fisher

well for me, I fish for both pleasure (sport) and for food. when somthing worth the effort of cleaning hits my bait. I have now grown to love the sport of fishing for trout, spanish, reds, and any other sport fish I am fortunate enough to land. BUT... with that said, let me put in my 2 cents worth. I still will fish for sharks for food. I know the pains of dealing with tourist that havn't a clue what there doing, they think it's somthing if they can catch a shark! As well as those that act like they own the pier and are somthing great because they have landed a few large sharks befor. So i see both sides. But not all who fish for shark are Bad, nor all who fish for Other more knowledgable. Lets look at it in a realalistic manner! Shark fishing, whether some like it or not, IS legal. Even though some countys and citys would like you to beleive otherwise. And YES, there are things that one can do to deliberatly draw sharks in to more shallow waters at a given time, such as chummin the water,and let me make myself perfectly clear that I DON'T condon or would never do from a pier or the surf Because of this fact! BUT, when any fisherman Cleans his fish and discards the remains and washes the blood down the sink, to some degree.... that chums the water, and like all of us are aware,.... the sharks are in THERE domain, and to think that the larger ones NEVER, unless intentionally drawn, Ever come into shallow waters is crazy. Just intentional missinformation to appease the tourist into beleaving that THERE waters is SAFE from sharks. Both you and I know better!
And Two things most sport ONLY fishers are missing out on is the fact that most shark- If prepared properly, is Very good eating, Without A bone to deal with , a plus. And- that if the over population of shark is not delt with by allowing people to harvest Legal sized ones, and in my openion, not to be waistfull but resourcefull for consumption of, then we are going to start seeing more and more attacks,and less and less SPORT and OTHER good eating fish as well, ...as more and more sharks are allowed to get to an extreamly large size,with an appatite to match.And the population of the fish they currently feed on becomes even MORE depleated due to the Commercial Fishing Ind. rapping of the sea, not to mention the fast growing imbalance of preditor verses pray ratio that is even more enhanced due to these so-called laws. Besides! 
DID I MENTION, that the're Quite Tasty on the Grill, and have a lot of meat on them to boot!
Honestly, I Now prefer to try for a large variety of fish, both for sport and or a meal, But when things are really SLOW, and or the freezer is low, I don't want some so-called law that contradicts the federal and DNR regulatory LAWS to deniy me the right to harvest or , IF slow, fish for shark for the pleasure of just fishing. And for Those who think shark is not fit to eat, I like my tomaaaato, and you may like a tomahto, I like shark, but I can't stomach a nasty old Blue, or mackeral. :--|
Regardless of What you fish for, EVERYONE PLEASE, respect ALL fishing limits, the rights of the others around you, the property which you fish from-(KEEP IT CLEAN AND NEAT), stay Back when someone is landing ANY fish, unless asked to assist, for the fishers sake , and for you own Safty. And when needed, REPORT violators of the REAL laws, to the DNR, so that we ALL may be allowed to continue to enjoy our SPORT, as well as our FOOD.
SINCERLY S-F. 
may your photos be grand, and or your stringers or coolers full!!!!


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## BrandyFish

*bitter old women*

i've been reading this thread for a few days now and i have just got to say something....
i live in south florida and we have hundreds of sharks off any given beach at any given time.
i believe this law you all have is to protect the tourist dollars by giving law enforcement officers something to work with. they do not want someone on a crowded beach throwing blood into the water and bringing a possibly dangerous animal within range of an uneducated tourist or their children.
this said i do fish for sharks when i get the itch for a nice fight if nothing else is around, and yes, i do rig a particular way for it. but rigging is in the eyes of the beholder.
your law does not say that if a shark attacks a bait or a fish that ate your bait you will go to jail. the law specifically says that you cannot target or draw that animal to within the shore. so people this is not that hard...
do not use 8 ft of steel leader
do not yak or boat a 10 lb steak or half a mack a few hundred yards out on a 16/0 hook and suspend it from an inner tube
and do not drop a bucket of purreed blood and guts from the shore line

this is not that difficult...the reason you are having problems with the law enforcement is because you are reading too much into the law. next time you are approached by an uneducated officer do not get frustrated. instead of acting like a smart ass fisherman that has a problem with uneducated government trying to save state resources (tourist money that funds your local businesses, including your favorite tackle shop) try to teach the officer some of the differences in the rigging or methods used. give them some knowledge on what to actually look for in a problematic fisherman. 
it doesn't sound like anyone is trying to actually help the problem, they just want to argue about who's rod is larger and who is going to do something about the situation.
you can't expect the laws to change if you sit on the sidelines and complain about it. i'm sure some of these officers are frustrated too because they don't have the training they need and they bump heads with fishermen all too often.

i don't know if anyone has actually stepped up to the plate and gotten involved. noone has talked about that. how about instead of posting what everyone should be doing right now we start posting about what we have done or are doing to get involved.

-Brandy


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## noah

*Debatable Material I Hope*

If you'll read back through earlier posts you'll see that someone has stepped up there and here.

Visit.myrtlebeachonline.com and type in the browser there" Sharkfishing".


Currently no one else there is willing too, that may at any moment be effected by it. 
The Problems in the area have nothing to do with anyone fishing by chumming sharks. The Hysteria is'nt with anglers ether. It's with Officials.
Read the Posting under "Tarpon landed at Apache."
The angler was King Fishing and simply caught a Tarpon.
Inturn hassled because someone with a poor and sick sense of humor and envy called in a report that it was a Great White. Right from the deck of the same Pier he had been fishing from. 
Just to see a fellow anglers become subject to the Ordinance and a devious kick.. Even after the fisher was approached and the Fish Long released was he offered not only the inconvenience but also arrest if he could'nt prove he had indeed only landed another perfectly legal game fish. What business is that of county Police who are not Game and Fisheries Officers?

It ceratinly was'nt an issue of someone fishing from the Pier and falling under its Private rules or signage. The fish landing was completed in public waters from the beachline and not on that property at all. Public domain. The public users
of the beach certainly were'nt in danger either.
The fact is no County employee witnessed anything and the fish had been returned safely to its domain. That issue alone provided that angler Constitutional Protection from being subjected to any law or ordinace after the fact. Law enforcement is required to witness such issue themselves firsthand in order to enforce it. Whether the angler could have proved the catch a Tarpon or a fish would not have come into play after the fact. He could have simply refused to answer there interagative questions. Certainly he could'nt have been required to witness against himself.

The innocent angler was targeted for no reason.
Only being removed from the scope of Officials attention by offering pictures of the Tarpon and further evidence of a scale removed during the catch and release. 

The impression left by officials during their investigation of the event and statements following the conclusion were that the angler was'nt going to be arrested if he could prove he had'nt landed a shark after all as well those that it would have been easier if he had not fished the fish to completetion on the beaches edge. Some how leaving him responsible for creating a crowd that included persons who had also believed the rumor a shark had indeed been fished into the swimmers area somehow endangering them......

I'm wondering were they would have suggested he land it?

This isn't an issue of any angler creating a mountain out of a molehole senario. These are real situations happening now in a regular fashion where rights are being taken for granted....

These are or could be played out on any beachline in the U.S. The rates of incident where
anglers are being held unreasonably accountable for what mother nature provides via these areas have increased ten fold this past decade.

I'm amazed that the majority of persons defending that loss and justifing the Officials action are posting here they themselves do actually directly fish for sharks in their locales. Yet see no errors worthy of correction pertaining to another market of anglers.........

They won't until it affects them directly.......what a blinded view of reality.


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## BrandyFish

*noah*

i see that the first thing yousaid was that people stepped up there and here. what about you? what have you done. you want to say that i will shark fish here but i won't try to help anglers up there. i don't see you putting up a fuss to save the indian river lagoon. to get the state of florida to stop dumping water from lake o, or for the army corps of engineers to stop dumping into the indian river.
if you want help in your area why don't you agree to disagree and recruit help for having the current law amended.
i've sat here and watched you and sandflea banter back and forth and then i watched it get personal...(you know someone could get hurt if yall keep slingin those things around  )
both of you have good points, why don't you work together and get something done instead of taking even more steps backwards and pinning members of the fishing community against each other.


one more thing.....you might want to watch your mouth because i have said nothing personal against you. i am the one that is 21 and with a comment like this- "They won't until it affects them directly.......what a blinded view of reality.", you are the one acting my age. you will get a lot more done working with people than going after them because their "view of reality" doesn't match yours.


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## johnnyleo11

noah said:


> Visit.myrtlebeachonline.com and type in the browser there" Sharkfishing".


No articles matched.

Is there informatin pertaining to the Horry County Ordinance? I'd like to know if I do hapen upon a shark.


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## Big Worm

Yeah so what do I do if I do hook into one? I wont know it until I get it to the bank.


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## trekker

Click here for the ONE SENTENCE ordnance. 

Click here for a town council discussion on the matter: 

Click here for the SCDNR Regulations on shark fishing and fishing in general.  
Note: There is one reference to Horry County fishing:

“Fishing from the shore in the waters under
or within 50 feet on either side or beyond the
end of any ocean fishing pier in Horry County
is prohibited. “


If you do a google search on horry county shark you will find lots of news articles and other matter for your reading enjoyment.

Here is a copy of an email I sent to Mrs. Todd the Horry County ordance enforcement person at Horry County. I have not heard any reply yet…

-----Original Message-----
From: <snip> 
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 10:50 PM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: QUestion regarding a Horry County ordinance 

Greetings Ms. Todd, 

My family and I are planning a trip to your beach and we are very much looking forward to it! We plan to do some fishing while there and while doing some research on local fishing spots, I discovered that your county has an ordinance regarding shark fishing. Specifically:

Sec. 5-6. Shark fishing. 
It shall be unlawful for any person to bait, fish for, or otherwise attract sharks to an area within one-half mile of the beach. 
(Ord. No. 10-85, § 6, 6-4-85)

I use a fairly big pole and fish for larger game fish (king mackerel, red fish, etc.) I do occasionally catch sharks while doing this. While I do not intentionally fish for sharks, I do catch them (and release them if they are undersized). My concern; will I be arrested if I am fishing? Will the law enforcement officer make a judgment call when a shark is caught?

Thank you very much for your time,


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## trekker

*World Record Tiger caught off Cherry Grove pier.*

Just a little factoid...

A world record tiger shark was caught off the Cherry Grove pier in 1966 by Walter Maxwell. He used a skate as bait, Penn Senator 16/0 reel, 14/0 hook and 130lb test. The fish weighed 1,780 lbs and was 13 ft 10.5 inches.


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## noah

Check out......www.horrycounty.org/council/minutes/min01-0821.pdf




2. Sun News - August 17, 2002 - A1 FRONT

SHARK ORDINANCE IN DEBATE 
CONWAY A North Myrtle Beach man recently arrested for gaffing and landing a shark on Apache Pier told Horry County Council members Friday the local law is illegal. ``I am facing a court date for nothing I did wrong,'' said pier fisherman Brad Peyton. Peyton asked the council's Public Safety Committee to rework the county's shark ordinance that says it is unlawful for anyone to bait, fish or otherwise attract sharks to an area within one-half mile of the beach. The... 
>> Purchase complete article, of 641 words 




3. Sun News - August 3, 2002 - C1 LOCAL & THE CAROLINAS

NMB MAN CHARGED IN SHARK INCIDENT 
A 36-year-old North Myrtle Beach man has been charged with violating an Horry County shark-fishing ordinance, adding fuel to a yearlong controversy over its wording. Richard Brad Peyton was arrested Thursday for gaffing and landing a shark on Apache Pier in Myrtle Beach, said county spokeswoman Lisa Bourcier. ``As far as I know, this is the first [arrest] in recent years because of the ordinance,'' Bourcier said. The ordinance, which was adopted in 1985, bans baiting, fishing ... 
>> Purchase complete article, of 633 words 




4. Sun News - August 24, 2001 - C1 LOCAL & THE CAROLINAS

SHARK FEAR WORSE THAN THE BITE 
Carolinas residents and visitors are more likely to be struck by lightning than attacked by a shark, according to those who study the fish that live off our coast. Shark awareness has dramatically increased since July when an 8-year-old boy was attacked off Pensacola Beach, Fla., and concern heightened Thursday as a stretch of New Smyrna Beach, Fla., was closed after that area's 18th shark attack. With that awareness also comes fear of attack, experts say, but the chance of an attack ... 
>> Purchase complete article, of 936 words 




5. Sun News - August 22, 2001 - C4 LOCAL & THE CAROLINAS

HORRY COUNTY TO TAKE UP SHARK ORDINANCE CHANGE 
CONWAY Horry County Council's public safety committee will consider Friday if pier fishermen can reel in sharks they accidentally hook while fishing from piers along the Grand Strand. Avid pier fisherman David Cooper asked the council on Tuesday to rework the county's shark ordinance, which says its unlawful for anyone to bait, fish or otherwise attract sharks to an area within one-half mile of the beach. The council deferred the issue to the public safety committee, which will ... 
>> Purchase complete article, of 305 words 




6. Sun News - August 7, 2001 - C1 LOCAL & THE CAROLINAS

AREA FISHERMEN, PIER AT ODDS OVER SHARK ORDINANCE 
Some local fishermen are at odds with the Apache Pier over enforcement of a county shark ordinance. Signs recently posted at the pier emphasize Horry County's shark ordinance, which says it's unlawful for anyone to bait, fish for or otherwise attract sharks to an area within one-half mile of the beach. But the signs have additional sentences written by pier officials saying police came to Apache Pier in June and said shark fishing will be ``closely monitored'' and that ... 
>> Purchase complete article, of 675 words


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## MBsandflea

“Fishing from the shore in the waters under
or within 50 feet on either side or beyond the
end of any ocean fishing pier in Horry County
is prohibited. “

Once again, failing to note CONTEXT rather than direct words. This law means that while standing on shore you can not fish UNDER, WITHIN 50 feet of either side OR once again...while fishing from shore...BEYOND the end of the pier. It doesn't apply to those fishing ON the pier, only from the surf or shore AROUND the pier. 


Actually, someone did step up about the shark ordinance, or say they were going to, on September 18th of 2001.

PUBLIC INPUT:
Chairman Prosser said they would begin their public input segment for the meeting. He
reminded the speakers of the rules. He said that Mr. Dave Cooper was the first speaker and would
speak about the shark ordinance, but Mr. Cooper was not present.

As cut from the meeting notes of the Horry County Council. Apparently Mr. Cooper chose not to debate the topic. It's a shame, he has such good arguments. 

Your statements from your .."long arms of the law" thread

"You see I have witnessed first hand the motivations of very unknowledgable enforcers. The actual arrest was offered and excepted with-out arguement to a brothern angler some period of days afterwards. During the event that led up to his arrest he was a bystander to the actual unintentional hooking up by a visiting tourist. The arresting official charged him with intentionally fishing for sharks, a far cry from the truth. He was booked and held overnight behind bars. The ordinanace in his matter read. " It shall be unlawful for any person the fish for, bait or otherwise attract a shark to with-in one mile of the beach.". You might as I consider this a pretty ambiguios statue."

May I ask..EXCUSE ME? The guy arrested GAFFED the shark!!! He was no innocent bystander. He pulled a shark onto a pier full of people!! Furthermore, if the situation were legal, why was the shark quickly cleaned and deposited into a cooler that seemed to have dissappeared and all activity denied? The incident was discovered after a tourist with a digital camera started showing off the pictures, particulary one of the shark being held up BY the gaff. Mr. Cooper could answer these questions, I think he was there at the time. 

To continue, I sent you a message regarding my belief of knowing who you are noah, I thought maybe you get the hint that I was giving you a certain amount of respect for knowledgeable information while still letting you know I think you are close-minded on this subject to any points of view other than your own. You've given yourself away by constantly plugging Ocean Crest Pier (which you now manage) and ended several posts with "Dave and the gang" as well as telling one person to go to OCP and you'll be glad to help, telling them "Just ask for Dave." I think I'm clear on this, you had your argument with the council and didn't show, there may have been other opportunities, I don't remember. What I do know is that you fished MBSP pier years ago, as well as Apache and it all matches up. You have had a vested interest in repealing the shark ordinance for several years, that's why you are fighting so hard here. Cat's out of the bag, you had your chance and lost. 

I think several people here have realized my points are valid and recognize what I'm trying to say...Now I'm done. See you around the pier Mr. Cooper.


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## johnnyleo11

So am I correct in saying that the piers are supposed to follow federal regulations on shark fishing b/c SC DNR follows those regulations too?

If so, I will go to the USCG South East Regional Fisheries Training Center that is in the same building as my office tomorrow. I have a buddy that works there as an instructor. I'm sure he can give me some information about it.


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## Big Worm

Ok so no one has told me what they think I should do if i hook a shark. I am going fishing in frot of my house tonight, with all thi tarpon/crevelle action around here I can wait no longer to break out the 10 footers and the fish finders, will be tossing menhaden. If a shark happens to be in the hood and hungry do I need to cut him as soo as I get him in the wash, or can I beach him and save my gear. Ya know gammi circle hooks are not cheap, niether are sampo swivels and crimps for that matter.

Your thoughts?


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## shaggy

Well, since ya AIn't targetting, and shark is just a bycatch, cut the sucker (assuming legal size) around the head, knock off the tail, let it bleed, steak it and put it on ice as soon as ya can.

Now, iffin' you don't want for grill, cut the leader and let the dude go back home.

Have Jeep will travel


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## the rhondel

Hell BW...go for it!..but use a spot/blue for bait.When toothy guy nails it,tell the authorities you were spot/blue feeshen ...no big deal  ....the R


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## Big Worm

Shaggy, I am all about eat'n em. They are good to eat. All I got is bunker in my freeker so that is what i am tossing tonight. I fish ofr striper and drum up around around AI for years. ANd shark in the summer. ( Sam is really laying into em inst he )...

But if I do get one I am not aftaid at all to flip it over and get my rog bcak from it. Done it a million time before from buxto ( the point and AI ) my point is if it is illegal to bring themto the beach then it most certainly must be illegal to have them on ice in a cooler right? Should I jus have a cooler in my truck up at the public parking area and run it back?

I am not one for getting in trouble so, I think I better not try and keep any. Just wonder what you thought about hooking one. I dont think it will be much trouble though it will be at night.

Anyone want to get in on some of this action?


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## Big Worm

I really need to preview my post for spelling next time


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## noah

*Royal Flush in Spades*

Maintaining the integrity of this Response being Material to the threads issue..............

Another board member highlights the attention of the secondary fishing ordinance...........Flea.....I for one certainly appreciate that concerned fisher doing so. I don't believe it was done to fleese anyone either.

That Ordinance pertains to protecting the 50 ft. fishing zone around the piers perimeter for the benefit of pier anglers and the vested interest of Pier owners in providing those Piers. Piers which are privatively owned, operated, and provide not only a service to the angling community but the economic welfare of coastal areas. It's simply a econonic buffer zone. It's applies to those surf fishing from the surf line as well those fishing via watercraft with-in 50 ft of the piers in Horry County.


On August 2001 18th there were no Meetings scheduled where someone could have spoke up but choose not showing up or doing so..........The actual meeting was August 21st and not the 18th. Someone did speak up on the 21st.........If you would like to read the minutes of the actual Horry County Council Meeting referencing the one sentence ordinance then you may do so at................

http://www.horrycounty.org/council/.../min01-0821.pdf

The highlights of that council meeting were Council lady Liz Gillands questions about Police Officers spending time on Piers Checking fishers. Instead of busying themselves with real crime.

Councilman Frazier also commented in defense of Horry County anglers and that he knew these fishers and knew they were'nt fishing directly for sharks.

In continuing and responding to the statements disguised as questions .......and I'm Only Qouting...MBsandflea............

"May I ask..EXCUSE ME? The guy arrested GAFFED the shark!!! He was no innocent bystander. He pulled a shark onto a pier full of people!! Furthermore, if the situation were legal, why was the shark quickly cleaned and deposited into a cooler that seemed to have dissappeared and all activity denied? The incident was discovered after a tourist with a digital camera started showing off the pictures, particulary one of the shark being held up BY the gaff. Mr. Cooper could answer these questions, I think he was there at the time. "..........end qoute.

I will respond directly and only to the material issue at hand.........Thank you for asking that I clarify your thinking............

It is material fact that no person whether toursit or local ever displayed any photographic images, either analog, digital, copied, or printed format of any person lifting any fish or shark upon a gaff in this application.

No angler has ever been charged under the ordinance for gaffing a shark anywhere in Horry County.


In this incident and application the angler neither used a gaff, helped use a gaff, helped lift a gaff or fish including a shark attached to a gaff, helped place any fish or shark onto any pier in Horry County. Nor did the angler in this application suggest to another person including an angler that he/she should help or involve themselves in any manner or fashion. The angler in this application at no time during this application involve themselves with challanging the one sentence ordinace nor did they suggest to another person or angler they do so by words, duress, suggestions, directives, hints, actions, sign language, or sub-bliminal message. In this application the angler neither endangered another person or property by action, suggestion, hint or direction that any person become or cause them to become endangered by the landing of any specie of fish or shark. Nor become subject themselves to the one sentence ordinance.

The material fact in this application is that this angler was not in the act of fishing for anything. Whether fish or Shark.

It is material fact that the angler in this application was charged Unconstitutionally under the Highly ambiguous ordinance , "Shark Ordinance".

It is material fact in this application that the angler charged under the "Shark Ordinance". never touched a Shark Physically nor any equipment used in the catching of any such Shark.

It is material fact the angler in this application never possessed any shark, whether whole or parted. 

In this application the angler never cleaned nor disposed of any by- products of such action. In this application the angler neither stored, stowed, hid, secured, nor held in containment any fish or shark.

In this application the Angler was only guilty of being a lawful Citizen and Ethical angler on Apache Pier not involved in the act of ...........

Baiting, Fishing for or otherwise attracting..............

The angler in this application was then and continues to remain so today.........and thats a fact.

I'm left befuddled and confused though by someones impromt "Cat's out of the bag, you had your chance and lost.... end qoute " Sentence" from their earlier posting.

I suppose the infamous song writer and entertainer Kenny Rogers said it best" You've got to know when to fold them and when to hold them"........


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## njreloader

*MB fishing*

I have read just about all the threads on this shark fishing and types of rigs used. Now, I not a professional fisherman nor a great ammature one either. I've been coming down every year for last 10 years to the travel park up the road from the pier to enjoy the fishing in the morning and hanging out on the beach in the afternoon. We always come down the week after Labor Day. The fishing isn't always great but I love fishing from the beach and catching the mullet with the cast net. Last year I did see more than normal Blacktips right up in the last breaker feeding on the mullet. I was also down on the pier and there were a group of guys baiting a shark with fillets and then trying to catch him on a line.
Like I said I 'm not a great fisherman but you guys are beginning to worry me about the rigs I may be using. I don't want to get arrested down there.


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## Big Worm

To me the likely hood of the average everyday angler getting arrested for fishing and landing a shark unitentionaly is slim to nill. I would not worry about reloader. Now the guys that were doing it on purpose may be another matter. fret not my friend. FISH ON and enjoy.


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## njreloader

How's the fishing going down there now.


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## noah

njreloader..............you don't mean there were fishers in the board daylight just last year on the deck of Apache Pier actually baiting for, fishing for and trying to attract sharks now do you? You kidding right?
Believe me every angler is an everyday angler. You'll never convince those enforcing the law that you ever " unintentionally" landed anything there. I can Guarantee you that!
The likelyhood you might become subject to the ordinance is greater than being struck by an electrical bolt while standing in a Thunderstorm while grasping a graphite fishing rod or having been a survivor of the sinking of the Titanic. Check out the post here on Pier and Surf regarding the Fantastic Tarpon Battle and Catch that began from the deck of the Apache Pier and ended with-in feet of it on the beach just a few mere days ago.........

That should be evidence enough.......


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## Big Worm

I saw that but was is not also said that they dont even come out a night or something? They get off at dusk? Plus I was talking about going out at night for myself. I would not suspect there would be many people out there at night except a few fellow anglers.


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## Big Worm

Wait let me add. So what do I do????

If I hook a shark fishing, what do I do. I won't know until I get it to the shore.


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## njreloader

*Tarpon*

Yea, I read that and seen the pictures. What a fish!!


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## emanuel

Like I said before, as long as you aren't intentionally fishing for sharks, you won't have a problem. I have pulled sharks up to 3' over the rail and didn't hear any flak about it. As long as you do it quietly and discretely, people aren't going to mind. The person who was arrested was probably fishing with sharks in mind, and as the article said, he gaffed it. If you have something too big to bring up by hand, go ahead and cut your line.  

On top of it, the ordinance allows pier owners to make rules to keep activities they don't want off of their property. Almost every single pier on the Grand Strand is privately owned and therefore they can make their own rules. For an instance, Garden City Pier does not allow kingfishing except during tournaments.

So, even if Horry County were to rescind their ordinance, pier owners could (and probably would) keep the rule in place. I don't have anything against shark fishing, however, I do have something against the mentality and behavior of some people who do participate in it. I'm not talking about those of us who have fun battling a 5' blacktip on 12 pound line all the way to a cooler. I am talking about those people who spoil it for everyone else. These are the same people who camp out all night on the pier, litter, cause trouble, and act like catching and killing a shark is a huge accomplishment.

I think this debate has been beaten to death, could we switch to something else? 

By the way, if you want to catch a limit of weakfish, fish those piers in the fall off the end with cut shrimp or cut anything for that matter. I've seen literally hundreds of weakies caught in a day off the 2nd Ave Pier around the end of November.


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## johnnyleo11

emanuel said:


> By the way, if you want to catch a limit of weakfish, fish those piers in the fall off the end with cut shrimp or cut anything for that matter. I've seen literally hundreds of weakies caught in a day off the 2nd Ave Pier around the end of November.


Can't wait until fall! I spend a week at Tybee Island about once every three months on the Govt's tab. I'll probably spending the good part of the evenings out on the pier after I finish up with work during the days.

Fishing has been kind of rough in Charleston. Haven't caught anything worth mentioning in the last three times I've gone.


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## noah

The angler arrested as stated was not involved at all in fishing for anything as posted. There isn't any "probably" or might have beens in relation to that actual fact. Read the earlier posting. The newspaper article was written afterwords and that title given was to them via Horry County Police spokesperson Lisa B. as a defense and attempt to justify and cover-up an untrained officer jumping the gun. Thats all. The angler was found innocent of all charges and the entire case dismissed March 25 2004. Nearly two years after the incident and the innocent anglers arrest.

And if one can add any validity or justification that the piers or their owners own the beachfront and the State waters upon which anglers surf and boat anglers fish else where in Horry County. I'd like to see that documentation. The issue isn't singular to only pier fishers on Pier property. They also have no say in the constitutional issues of selective enforcement any where else an angler may become subject to the ordinance I hope. Unless they are writing county ordinances for the Horry County council.

You may find it beat to death others including myself may not. Why read it or respond to it, better yet create a new thread hundreds of us might become involved in at least as reading material.

Whether or not you said it before or not, lawful anglers with-in the past days have been subjected to it. Certainly Tarpon fishing isn't Shark fishing.

Visit Horry County and try some of that just having fun fighting a 5' blacktip to the cooler.....and see what happens......

Heck if they'll lock up a local who does'nt shark fish they'll certainly have fun booking a Foreigner who advertises he does.


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## AL_N_VB

Big Worm said:


> Yeah but Noah don't you as a fisherman know what you are fishing for? How much of this lies with you?




Guess the real question is how do we know there is any fish in the area we're fishing in?
Fishing would be called catching?

Ya don't know what your going to catch....cast into a school of striper.yer chances of catchin a maurading blue is suspectable..cast into a school of trout..catchin another species is also suspectable....

Well if your chunkin fer drum ,striper ,cobia.well....yer takin that risk.....

Here's what a by product of fishin fer pups brought us:










Could we controll what we fished for?NO
Where there pups and drum in that hole?-YES

So....that's my .02cents


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## Big Worm

I know know that you can not control what you catch. My comment was meant more for if you were out there using a steel leader and whole spot or such. I use that some est up all the time. I just moved down here from MD and have spent my whole life fishing the outer banks and asseteague.

Nsearch4drum you know there is a difference in fishing for sharks and hooking one while fishing for drum.

Right? BTW nice sand triger


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## AL_N_VB

Big Worm said:


> Nsearch4drum you know there is a difference in fishing for sharks and hooking one while fishing for drum.
> 
> Right? BTW nice sand triger



I don't know the difference..........Shark fishin is illegal.

I know when I'm fishin fer cobia.and a black tip hits my 8/0 circle on a hatteras rigged fish finder........I didn't mean ta be shark fishin.but thats whats ended on my hook ...that I carefully release back..........

What I'm statin is.....if'n yer chummin fer cobia , stripers ,drum...yer gonna get tha more aggresive species thats lookin fer the free,easy meal.

I have never purposely tried to shark fish.cause I do not like tha taste of shark...but I have caught my share.I have been bitten off(100lbs test leader), more often than [email protected] HI.....so I know theres shark out there.what all I am sayin is ........fishin is like a box of chocolates.ya never know what yer gonna reel in.....


I am not a shark fisherman.but I did stay @ the Holiday Inn Express


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## Big Worm

Agreed.


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## crazyjohnsmojos

noah is right. you dont no whats going to bite the hook. I see it all the time in va. fishing for spot and catch cobia,sandsharks,sheepshead,ect. from pier and boat. In dec/jan trolling mojos and big bunker spoons for ocean rockfish sharks and flounder hit the mojos and spoons you don`t expect it , butt it does happen all the time.


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