# surf and kayaks



## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

I have a 12' native that will not handle waves going out or coming in. flips way to easy.
I am a ocean fisher and like fishing the ocean.
HELP, what type of kayak should I be using. I weigh 190.


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## gilly21 (Feb 15, 2006)

Lots of choices out there. I have a 14' Redfish. I have been out to almost two miles in it. Been through 2-4 foot seas(wont do that again) just to drop baits and come back in. It wants to flip you on the way in if you dont time things right but handles it well enough. I think the Manta Ray would be even a bit more stable. I have fished with guys in Taprons and they felt just fine too.


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## Singletjeff (Mar 27, 2005)

what are you trying to do? Just kayak out baits? Or paddle through the break to fish all day? Just yakking out baits, ocean kayak frenzy...very stable. If you are paddling out to fish all day, I would suggest something else. A year ago I wouldn't have said that, but I spent 5 hours in my Frenzy today and my body feels it.......But, IMHO, there is no better yak for running out baits than the frenzy.


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## CIRCLEHOOK76 (Dec 1, 2007)

The Ocean Kayak Prowlers excel in the surf and rough water.....I have 2 of them and do a lot of king fishing from them...


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

Plan to fish all day but have to get out and come back through the breakers without flipping which is my problem now.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*Try this*

Going out should not be a problem, if it is too rough when/where you are launching, you will get pummeled when ya come back in. Pick another launch spot..

When comming back in pull the straps on your seat so the seat back will lay flush agaist the deck of the Kayak behind you. This will allow you to get into the Coffin Position for taking off on a wave. Just lay back put more weight to the back of the boat and it should help you.. 

JAM


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## huckfinn38 (Jun 13, 2006)

is it a native manta ray? if so you might want to just practice. This boat should do fine just as a tarpon 120. Learn to pick your sets better.


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## redfishman (Sep 5, 2011)

I have a native manta ray 14 i fish the cbbt all the time and it can get ****y out there. you just need to practice surf lauching


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## Ronaulmtd (Feb 8, 2011)

Surf launches are easier than surf landings- OK Prowlers are great rough water boats- but coming in through real "surf" isn't something for anyone but experts and even they get "wiped out" occasionally- Timing is essential and getting into the trough and paddling like hell to keep the yak in the right position in the trough- If the surf is up- I stay home- small shore breakers is the way to go, but the problem is that conditions change- with the tide and winds fighting you can get changing surf conditions real quick- I find an inlet to launch from- but that has issues, too- during tide changes a fast current in an inlet can be 5-7 miles per hour- you can't paddle against that much current- You have to fish smart out of a kayak and know your limitations- Be prepared for a turtle and have your gear lashed down or you will lose it- having your yak sideways in surf is a guaranteed dunking-


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## YakAttack (Aug 8, 2006)

I'm no expert (quite the contrary) but I agree the return is the tough part. 

For both the launch and the return I try to watch the wave cycle and wait until it's beginning the flood the sand (you know, the one that is the first to hit your chair and cooler on the incoming). Just as these waves are forming seems to be the best time to launch because the water is deeper and the waves are not breaking as hard - plus the receding water "feeds" the forming breakers, essentially keeping them suppressed. 

By contrast, I've found the worst time to launch or return is when the waves are on the opposite cycle - retracted further than average. It's less deep and seems to be really rough at this time.

There's probably some science and exact numbers to it somewhere but it seems like every few minutes you get a window to launch / return on a fully saturated surf.

Again, I'm definitely not an authority but after some trail and error this approach has worked well for me - even in some pretty rough conditions.


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## ruthless (Sep 5, 2003)

Practice...Practice...Practice...without gear and during warm weather.


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

JAM said:


> Going out should not be a problem, if it is too rough when/where you are launching, you will get pummeled when ya come back in. Pick another launch spot..
> 
> When comming back in pull the straps on your seat so the seat back will lay flush agaist the deck of the Kayak behind you. This will allow you to get into the Coffin Position for taking off on a wave. Just lay back put more weight to the back of the boat and it should help you..
> 
> JAM


yes I noticed the bow will catch if when coming in the wave lifts you at the wrong point, the back lifts too much and the bow digs.. Laying back should help.
I am talking about trying to get out and come in with four to six foot seas.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*In Hatteras 4 to 6 iis just a regular day*

But, I will tell you this, shore pound will f u up, if its big shore pound, I bail the boat, get behind it and guide it in like a surf board....Swim in holding the rear handles to steer the yak... Works everytime....Leash's are useless in head high waves they will just rip the leashes out of your boat..and or off your gear. Stowe all your gear...Don't bring anything you don't want to loose.. I have had many a yard sale in Diamond shoals...

Down here there are more species to play with in the sound, its like that in most places. Ocean is fun, but over the years I have gravitated to the Sound and the Inlets, I just find them more productive for fish. You can only catch so many Spanish and Blues before it gets boring, and I like the Hunt...

Practice Practice Practice.. Use to go play in H-Cane swells with the yak, great way to learn what a boat is going to do under certain conditions..

If she is Pearl-ing (bow over) relax the seat back to the lay down position and on take off paddle like hell while you are laying back, the boat will come to plane, and then its just a matter of stroking harder in the direction ya want to go..The Older wilderness systems if you did not lay back, you rolled. the newer ones the cockpit is back further and its allot eaiser to control the boat in the surf and she does not pearl as easy..Try it you'll like it..
JAM


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## fishnuttz (Jun 27, 2008)

JAM said:


> But, I will tell you this, shore pound will f u up, if its big shore pound, I bail the boat, get behind it and guide it in like a surf board....Swim in holding the rear handles to steer the yak... Works everytime....Leash's are useless in head high waves they will just rip the leashes out of your boat..and or off your gear. Stowe all your gear...Don't bring anything you don't want to loose.. I have had many a yard sale in Diamond shoals...
> 
> Down here there are more species to play with in the sound, its like that in most places. Ocean is fun, but over the years I have gravitated to the Sound and the Inlets, I just find them more productive for fish. You can only catch so many Spanish and Blues before it gets boring, and I like the Hunt...
> 
> ...


 Very Nice Jam I probaly would not have thought about bailing out like that and swimming the yak in. I guess if your going to go swimming might as well be on your terms instead of mother natures . I like it


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*Theres some Big Shore Break Down here*

It was the only way in once, it was either that or get crushed, you kinda body surf behind the yak, might not look pretty, but I can't afford to hurt myself and loose trips..Gettin to old for all that testoserone stuff... I wanna catch fish...So I do it when ever the shore break is big...

JAM


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

Thanks for the good advice and info. 
mike


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## YakAttack (Aug 8, 2006)

JAM said:


> But, I will tell you this, shore pound will f u up, if its big shore pound, I bail the boat, get behind it and guide it in like a surf board....Swim in holding the rear handles to steer the yak... Works everytime....
> JAM


That sounds like a great idea!


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*Of course it a warm water only option*

nm


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## Caught Myself (Sep 14, 2004)

Actually, it's not a warm water option only whether you like it or not. Unless you launch in very small surf, you're not guaranteed you're gonna stay dry, especially on the way back to the beach. I dress to swim and rig to flip. So if I can fish all day and have to use the method described to get back in, I'm good with it. JAM, I learned that method many years ago the hard way. Got wiped out,swam to the yak,grabbed the stern handle and surfed it in. Broke a rod and had to wade back out to get my paddle. Next time I was coming in through big surf I thought, hell, surfing it in worked last time so I did it voluntarily with my gear stowed. Genius! Not really, just beats getting slammed. Even in cold water. If you have an audience,they will be highly entertained but they probably won't have to give you first aid.


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## wannabeangler (Feb 7, 2009)

Don't come straight in towards the beach with the waves perpendicular to you. You are not a surfer, and your bow will go down while you get tossed. Approach the beach from an angle, roughly a 45' angle to the wave will allow you to ride the wave in safely. Make sure you are in ankle/knee deep water before you decide to get out also. Any deeper and you may lose some stuff in the breaks.


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

wannabeangler said:


> Don't come straight in towards the beach with the waves perpendicular to you. You are not a surfer, and your bow will go down while you get tossed. Approach the beach from an angle, roughly a 45' angle to the wave will allow you to ride the wave in safely. Make sure you are in ankle/knee deep water before you decide to get out also. Any deeper and you may lose some stuff in the breaks.


that angle won't cause the wave to roll you??


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## narfpoit (Jun 16, 2004)

surffshr said:


> that angle won't cause the wave to roll you??


Just dig your paddle into the wave and lean against it. As long as you are moving forward when the wave catches up to you then you can ride it out till it passes. Coming in at an angle just keeps your nose out of the water which will cause you to endo.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

narfpoit said:


> Just dig your paddle into the wave and lean against it. As long as you are moving forward when the wave catches up to you then you can ride it out till it passes. Coming in at an angle just keeps your nose out of the water which will cause you to endo.


On the older Wilderness's even if you take an angle,you will endo, ya still need to lay back in the cofin position, to get up speed...JAM


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## Carolina Rebel (Aug 25, 2005)

As said previously, practice practice practice. Makes all the difference. I've got a little cheap 8 foot kayak that I used to take out in the ocean on occasion, never with alot of equipment (tried that once, she's too slow). Going out, my life was made much easier if I scooted towards the nose of the yak just pinch, this would keep the nose low and allow it to push right through head on waves, even good sized breaking waves. Got to where I never turtled going out. Coming in, as JAM mentiond coffin position is key. This allows you to 'surf' in, but you'll still have to paddle hard to make sure you don't get sideways. Heavily loaded kayak I would definitely get off and guide it in. Crappy thing about that short kayak was that often as not if you goofed she would pitch pole, somehow I never broke a rod on it but I drew many a crowd that way!


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## narfpoit (Jun 16, 2004)

JAM said:


> On the older Wilderness's even if you take an angle,you will endo, ya still need to lay back in the cofin position, to get up speed...JAM


True if I am just playing in the surf zone or just dropping baits I take the seat out altogether just so I can scoot back quickly. Also surfing with 2 people in a tandem works pretty well too. I think having the extra weight and the room to move it around helps.


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