# Line twist with braid



## Hanginon (Jan 11, 2008)

I was having all kinds of problems with a new spool of Sufix braid (which I loaded on a spinning reel myself), and really couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. I finally figured out it had a lot of twist in it. Once I took it out, everything was OK.

I now believe that no matter how it is loaded on the real, it's best to run it out your casting distance and rewind it a few times, running it trough a (gloved) hand to get as much of the twist out as possible.

I have never had this problem with Fireline and therefore believe this is only a problem with a "true" braided line. 

I'm now wondering if this was the cause of some of the horror stories I've read here when others have tried a true braided line?


----------



## Catfish713 (Nov 9, 2006)

yup, braid is great stuff, but it does have alot of glitches you gotta get past to get the results you want


----------



## hengstthomas (Mar 11, 2006)

I have been using Sufix for over a year and never had that happen . I Do Not use swivels at all either . I think you must have spooled it up wrong . What # braid was it ?


----------



## MDubious (May 10, 2008)

Did you back the reel with mono?


----------



## hengstthomas (Mar 11, 2006)

MDubious said:


> Did you back the reel with mono?


What difference would that make ? I dont use backing .


----------



## HDW2 (Feb 15, 2009)

Normark said:


> What difference would that make ? I dont use backing .



Backing makes no difference with your twisting problem at all.  I have been using Power Pro for the last 18 months and have no problems with it. Have it on both spinners and casters. None have mono backing. 

It may have been that particular spool you purchased, not that familier with Sufix braid. I do however put a lot of tension on the spool when I first spool them up and also do a few test casts before final rigging them. With the spinners, ALWAYS close the bail by hand and never wind without some tension!!! Never had any wind knots with them. No twisting either. I also use between #17 and #125 mono or Fluro leaders though, depending on what equipment I am using at the time.


----------



## Hanginon (Jan 11, 2008)

It is 30# Sufix. 

I'm certainly not saying that I spooled it properly. What I'm saying is that spooling a true braid is far more critical than putting on Fireline, which IMHO is almost virtually immune to line twist.


----------



## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

Mono or braid, if I don't make sure the filler spool is laying correctly when lining up, I run into the twist problem you are describing, if the filler spool is label side down and it is supposed to be label side up, or vice versa, it is bad enough at time to knot up and stop the cast mid flight... 

Robert


----------



## New Kent Newbie (Apr 25, 2006)

*The steps to being wind know free with braid*

1. Get the reel spooled at a tackle shop
2. Close the bail manually
3. Make sure the reel lays the line god you won't be happy with braid on a $25 spinning reel
I have fished braid exclusivelly on my spinning reels for 3 years and zero windknots by following these steps


----------



## surfnsam (Apr 28, 2008)

i've use braid (power pro, fireline crystel) on all my rods. allways use mono backer to keep the braid from slipping or digging in and use moderate pressure when spooling the reel, also don't fill the spool all the way leave 1/8" from the lip empty. used to get wind knots when using 20# power pro with small beetle spin baits went to lighter # line to stop that mess. also closing the bail manualy is a good idea. when fishing the surf on windy days after the sinker hits the water i'll count to 5 then stop the line with my hand and close the bail manualy and wind up the slack with some pressure on the line to keep it snug on the reel.


----------



## hengstthomas (Mar 11, 2006)

When I spool up with braid or mono I toss the spool of line into the water and when you reel it spins so no line twists .. If in a pinch I toss it on the ground and reel very fast keeping the right amount of tension and make the spool roll on the ground .. if it stops I lift the rod tip and make it roll until the reel spool is filled . ( same thing as someone putting a pencil and holding the spool )


----------



## hengstthomas (Mar 11, 2006)

HDW2 said:


> Backing makes no difference with your twisting problem at all.


I know I was referring to MDubious's reply .


----------



## HDW2 (Feb 15, 2009)

Normark said:


> I know I was referring to MDubious's reply .


I hear ya. So was I.


----------



## Hanginon (Jan 11, 2008)

I really like that idea of putting the new spool in a bucket of water while loading the line.

The problem (for those who don't spool their own reels) is that the new spool of braid is about 2X the diameter of the spool on the reel - no matter which side of the spool you pull it from, you get twist.


----------



## HDW2 (Feb 15, 2009)

Hanginon said:


> - no matter which side of the spool you pull it from, you get twist.



Herin lies the big problem. Line is meant to be taken off the spool while mounted on some type of axel. NOT off the side of the spool. As a youngin an old fisherman taught me (before spinners were popular) that "the new line is on a drum, the reel is a drum, make them turn the same direction and it will never twist." I have used that therory since then and never had a twisting problem. For every wrap you take off the side of a new spool, you are adding one 360* twist. There are a multitude of ways to do this correctly. At the very least, a pencil between your feet with the new spool and fingers for tension.


----------



## MDubious (May 10, 2008)

Normark said:


> What difference would that make ? I dont use backing .


Backing braid with mono is just from my school of fishing. It prevents slipping and allows you to get more yardage on the reel to fill it as braid has a thinner diameter. Thought this might be the source of your problem but, apparently not. I have fished braid exclusively in the salt for the last 2 years and have never experienced any twisting with it; so unless your using metals with out a swivel I'm stumped besides a possible spooling issue. You wax the spool then if you didn't back it? Just curious...


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

New Kent Newbie said:


> 1. Get the reel spooled at a tackle shop
> 2. Close the bail manually
> 3. Make sure the reel lays the line god you won't be happy with braid on a $25 spinning reel
> I have fished braid exclusivelly on my spinning reels for 3 years and zero windknots by following these steps



All the steps you put up there have worked for me for the last 10plus yrs using braid,EXCEPT #1... Everytime I let a tackleshop put line on a spinner with braid they spool it off the same as they would a conventional.... IMHO,it doesn't work that way... Imho,it has to be spun off the spool,not revolved off the spool like a conventional...


----------



## richardbb85 (Apr 18, 2009)

Is there a site showing how to properly spool a reel?


----------



## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

When I worked for Dick's Sporting Goods, we'd spool spinners by taking the spool off the reel, setting it up on the spooling machine and spooling it up by revolving the spool like a conventional reel. You'd have to find an experienced guy to do it right because the line had to be leveled manually, but it eliminated any issue with line twist.

Evan

ETA: WikiHow, a great source for information. Spooling Line on a Reel


----------



## OBX Jay (Sep 3, 2007)

[/QUOTE]ETA: WikiHow, a great source for information. Spooling Line on a Reel[/QUOTE]

This is a great source for spooling. And yes, for spinners the line comes off the side of the spool - just like the link says. If the line is twisting you need to flip the spool over.


----------



## hengstthomas (Mar 11, 2006)

MDubious said:


> Backing braid with mono is just from my school of fishing. It prevents slipping and *allows you to get more yardage on the reel to fill it as braid has a thinner diameter.*


What ? 
If you *dont* use backing you'll get more line on the spool . By using backing your cutting down on the amount of braid your spool will hold .
There is no need for backing .. Ever ! 
By the way I have never had line twists with braid and NO I dont wax my spool . I had a Captain show me how to spool braid without backing or Tape .


----------



## hengstthomas (Mar 11, 2006)

Drumdum said:


> All the steps you put up there have worked for me for the last 10plus yrs using braid,EXCEPT #1... Everytime I let a tackleshop put line on a spinner with braid they spool it off the same as they would a conventional.... IMHO,it doesn't work that way... Imho,it has to be spun off the spool,not revolved off the spool like a conventional...


Most stories I hear about bad braid begins with tackle shops loading braid for you , Seldom do you hear someone who spooled up their own spool have issues (on spinners). 
Of course then you have Power Pro


----------



## hengstthomas (Mar 11, 2006)

kingfisherman23 said:


> When I worked for Dick's Sporting Goods, we'd spool spinners by taking the spool off the reel, setting it up on the spooling machine and spooling it up by revolving the spool like a conventional reel. You'd have to find an experienced guy to do it right because the line had to be leveled manually, but it eliminated any issue with line twist.
> 
> Evan
> 
> ETA: WikiHow, a great source for information. Spooling Line on a Reel


#7 *Stop reeling and dip the rod toward the spool on the floor. If the line twists onto itself, turn the spool over before putting more line on. If the line is okay, go ahead and finish.

1. For a spinning reel, a good way to spool the line is to take a soft cotton cloth and hold the line in the cloth at about the first eye. Apply a good amount of tension, so the line does not spool loose, and you can real as fast as you like.
*
I do this many many times with mono while I am spooling up my reels .. Keep checking for twists . I dont care who makes the Mono , Your gonna get line twists .

Two ways to get the twists out of mono ..
1. Take a 2 foot piece of mono and tie a swivel on and then your main line on the other end . Take the 2 foot piece and attach it to something like a fence post with lots of room . Walk out the line and then reel it back in .

2. If you on a boat or near current (like the end of a jetty .. boat is best) just slowly move along and let out your line and drag it behind the boat .. This will unravel the line .

Its best to just take your time spooling up mono and avoid even the smallest of twists by constantly dipping your rod to check .


----------



## hengstthomas (Mar 11, 2006)

Hanginon said:


> I really like that idea of putting the new spool in a bucket of water while loading the line.
> 
> The problem (for those who don't spool their own reels) is that the new spool of braid is about 2X the diameter of the spool on the reel - no matter which side of the spool you pull it from, you get twist.


I have been using braid for almost 5 years now including Power Pro , Stren Super Braid , Sufix and now after playing with it for a tad over a year Diawa Samurai .. I have never had twists with any of these braids .
When spooling up I often have to stop because my fingers start to burn .. when I am done I actually have something that looks like "plastic" coating my fingers from the tension while holding the braid .
I dont know what to tell you .. I just never have twists .


----------



## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

I always use Dacron for backing. Putting braid on a spool without putting backing will cause the line to slip on the rotor of the spool.


----------



## hengstthomas (Mar 11, 2006)

Fishman said:


> I always use Dacron for backing. Putting braid on a spool without putting backing will cause the line to slip on the rotor of the spool.


Some use tape but I tie direct and never had my spool spin .. Knock on Wood !


----------



## Hanginon (Jan 11, 2008)

I've always put some masking tape on the spool first. I originally did this with mono to allow some compression of the line without breaking the spool on the reel (remember, mono stretches, but it will try to go back to it's original length). 

I've continued to use masking tape under the braid (so it doesn't slip). However, from some of the responses in this thread, it looks like I may not be putting the braid on with enough tension. 

Since the stuff doesn't stretch, I guess it's safe to put it on with some really serious tension without the spool on the reel breaking??


----------



## HDW2 (Feb 15, 2009)

While it is true, putting on braid without backing of mono can cause slippage, can damage your spool, I dont know of anyone that has ever recovered a fish once 100% spooled out. It's a real easy solution here. Dont let the fish spool out within 20 feet of your end!!! If you do, forget about recovering the fish, and maybe even your equipment if you dont break it off. Common sense here folks. But that is just my .02. There might be someone out there that has recovered from a 100% spool out, I just haven't seen it in my 40+ years of fishing. Now I am talking about salt water fishing, not bass or specks. I have seen that done many a time.


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

HDW2 said:


> While it is true, putting on braid without backing of mono can cause slippage, can damage your spool, I dont know of anyone that has ever recovered a fish once 100% spooled out. It's a real easy solution here. Dont let the fish spool out within 20 feet of your end!!! If you do, forget about recovering the fish, and maybe even your equipment if you dont break it off. Common sense here folks. But that is just my .02. There might be someone out there that has recovered from a 100% spool out, I just haven't seen it in my 40+ years of fishing. Now I am talking about salt water fishing, not bass or specks. I have seen that done many a time.



Guess you are saying I'm the "wierd one" huh??  I've done it twice on a pier on the same day,both times with false albacore,down to the knot on the spool of a sigma 050 with 10lb test.. Both times you could have played a tune on the line it was so close to breaking,but with luck both of them turned before it did..

That was with mono all the way to the bottom of the spool though.. I've had several times that it has gone down to the backing on braid,using mono as a topshot,and using braid as a topshot,never to the spool though...


----------



## hengstthomas (Mar 11, 2006)

HDW2 said:


> I just haven't seen it in my 40+ years of fishing. Now I am talking about salt water fishing, not bass or specks. I have seen that done many a time.


http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63413

I also had it happen on a jetty last year .. I have no idea what it was .
IT happens .


----------



## HDW2 (Feb 15, 2009)

Drumdum said:


> Guess you are saying I'm the "wierd one" huh??  I've done it twice on a pier on the same day,both times with false albacore,down to the knot on the spool of a sigma 050 with 10lb test.. Both times you could have played a tune on the line it was so close to breaking,but with luck both of them turned before it did..
> 
> That was with mono all the way to the bottom of the spool though.. I've had several times that it has gone down to the backing on braid,using mono as a topshot,and using braid as a topshot,never to the spool though...


I am not saying your wierd, You might be, but not saying it. Great job on the recovery!! 

So I stand corrected. It can be done. Oh wait a minute, do we have witnesses?  

And I see Normark did it too. But if you have no idea what it was, you didn't land it thus did not recover from it. 

I have been spooled severl times in just the last couple of years alone and did not recover. We were in deep water billfish hunting and the fish were in the 80+ lb range. That is what I am talking about. Also a learning expieriance for the boat captians!! If you dont break off, you WILL lose the equipment.


----------



## MDubious (May 10, 2008)

Normark said:


> What ?
> If you *dont* use backing you'll get more line on the spool . By using backing your cutting down on the amount of braid your spool will hold .
> There is no need for backing .. Ever !
> By the way I have never had line twists with braid and NO I dont wax my spool . I had a Captain show me how to spool braid without backing or Tape .


With backing my 704z still took over 300yrds of 50lb pp that's why I back my reels. So what's with the slipping then? Is it fisherman's myth or what?


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

MDubious said:


> With backing my 704z still took over 300yrds of 50lb pp that's why I back my reels. So what's with the slipping then? Is it fisherman's myth or what?


 It's no myth... I think it may have been Normark that made a thread on a special way of wrapping braid that would elliminate the slipping a while back on Open Forum... Myself,I always back with at least a few wraps of mono,then fill the spool with braid.. Some use tape as well.. But,gauranteed,at least from what I have seen in the past, that braid WILL slip if there is no backing or tape.. Then again,have never tried the technique that was shown on Open Forum a while back..


----------



## hengstthomas (Mar 11, 2006)

MDubious said:


> With backing my 704z still took over 300yrds of 50lb pp that's why I back my reels. So what's with the slipping then? Is it fisherman's myth or what?


Like DD said its NO myth .. Tape , Backing or learn a new way to affix your braid to the spool so it wont slip .
I understand why you back it now .. Makes sense


----------



## hengstthomas (Mar 11, 2006)

Drumdum said:


> It's no myth... I think it may have been Normark that made a thread on a special way of wrapping braid that would elliminate the slipping a while back on Open Forum... Myself,I always back with at least a few wraps of mono,then fill the spool with braid.. Some use tape as well.. But,gauranteed,at least from what I have seen in the past, that braid WILL slip if there is no backing or tape.. Then again,have never tried the technique that was shown on Open Forum a while back..


May have been me but I dont think it was under the name Normark


----------

