# Not Fish, but



## big brother

bbq, It's about 1am and the pigs (whole hog) and the briskets have been on the cooker since about 9pm. Feeding the faculty here at the college (should be about 300 hungry teachers ready to eat about noon). I do this once a year and do a faculty and staff picnic in the spring. Mine is eastern nc style (Wayne County) and the brisket is my own style, I'm still new to brisket cooking, but it is a fun challenge.
charlie


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## sprtsracer

Sounds Great! By Eastern, NC, I assume you mean a mustard/vinegar sauce. If so, I need a recipe for a good one! Let us know how it all turns out!


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## drawinout

Pit Hog Rescuers United!!! You have approximately 20 hours left on that hog! I'll carry you through with a song, LOL!


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## drawinout

Hope you guys have a good one today!!!!


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## drawinout

How's that pig lookin fellas? I can smell it from here... It's going to be fish for me tonight, but I damn sure wish I was starring at that hog!!!LOL Lucky bastages!


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## big brother

For some reason security and maintainance show up on the mornings I'm doing pig pickin's. And that mustard stuff is a South Carolina thing, not eastern NC. Anyhow about 3 hours till the show starts. 15 hours, never higher than 230.
charlie


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## drawinout

big brother said:


> For some reason security and maintainance show up on the mornings I'm doing pig pickin's. And that mustard stuff is a South Carolina thing, not eastern NC. Anyhow about 3 hours till the show starts. 15 hours, never higher than 230.
> charlie


I know how to cook a hog good fella. Perquimanns NC. I'm just messing with you boys is all. However, I was serious when I said I wish I was staring at that hog!! Hope you guys have a good day, and I wish I was there!!


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## Rockfish1

big brother said:


> For some reason security and maintainance show up on the mornings I'm doing pig pickin's. And that mustard stuff is a South Carolina thing, not eastern NC. Anyhow about 3 hours till the show starts. 15 hours, never higher than 230.
> charlie


they know where the eatin's good...

yup eastern carolina is vinegar, pepper sauce... mustard, gotta be crazy to put that on a good piece of smoked meat...  


slow and easy is the word...


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## sprtsracer

Rockfish1 said:


> they know where the eatin's good...
> 
> yup eastern carolina is vinegar, pepper sauce... mustard, gotta be crazy to put that on a good piece of smoked meat...
> 
> 
> slow and easy is the word...


Yeah...I guess it'd be okay as long as you added enough ketchup!!! LOL  J/K


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## Brook

I'll never forget the first time we had eastern NC barbecue. Actually, we've had it twice---the first and the last time. We were staying at Atlantic Beach and wanted a break from seafood. So there's this barbecue place. 

One bite and I almost spit it out on the floor! I can't believe that anybody who's ever had real 'cue would voluntarily eat meat swimming in pure vinegar. Ugh!

There's a reason that style has never caught on elsewhere. Nobody else would find it palatable---or even edible.


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## drawinout

Brook said:


> I'll never forget the first time we had eastern NC barbecue. Actually, we've had it twice---the first and the last time. We were staying at Atlantic Beach and wanted a break from seafood. So there's this barbecue place.
> 
> One bite and I almost spit it out on the floor! I can't believe that anybody who's ever had real 'cue would voluntarily eat meat swimming in pure vinegar. Ugh!
> 
> There's a reason that style has never caught on elsewhere. Nobody else would find it palatable---or even edible.


Dang, you sure you're from Kentucky Brook?? You're not some kind of wine sippin Michigan transplant are ya? LOL, Just jokin


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## Brook

Ripple, Drawinout. It's a good wine. Not a great wine, but.....


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## drawinout

brook said:


> ripple, drawinout. It's a good wine. Not a great wine, but.....


:d:d:d


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## sprtsracer

Actually, I've had some pretty good Q with both vinegar AND a combination of vinegar/mustard. I guess the taste depends on what type of vinegar you use.


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## drawinout

How did the pig pickin turn out big brother?


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## GreenFord

I was raised that BBQ ment one thing... eastern NC style PIG! So when I was in the navy I spent a year in school in San Diego. I went to place with some of the guys cause they said they had great BBQ. Well I ordered a plate and they guy looked at me and asked "what kind, Beef, Chicken or Pork?" I knew right then I needed to get my butt back home...lol


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## drawinout

GreenFord said:


> I was raised that BBQ ment one thing... eastern NC style PIG! So when I was in the navy I spent a year in school in San Diego. I went to place with some of the guys cause they said they had great BBQ. Well I ordered a plate and they guy looked at me and asked "what kind, Beef, Chicken or Pork?" I knew right then I needed to get my butt back home...lol


 All I have here at my house is a little piece of crap cooker barely capable of holding a little pig, but I've manned the pit at my fair share of barbecues. I still say some of my fondest BBQ memories were when I was 10-13 years old. My best friend's grandfather owned a major concrete company in eastern NC. They'd run several different pits with hog, bear, and deer. If there was bad weather, they'd drag those pits into a big warehouse building they had out there. Those were some of my first and most memorable BBQ experiences. The women would bring a *ton* of good side dishes and baked goods!!!! I'm about to hit myself just thinking about it! All I'm sayin is, if you don't have an elderly woman in your family named Lottie or Eva, chances are you haven't been to a good "Eastern NC" BBQ!!LOL If you haven't been to a BBQ with at least 3 Budweiser trailers, chances are you haven't been to a good "Eastern NC" BBQ!!!!LOL If you've never been to a BBQ where all men over 4' tall pull their own pork off the pig, chances are you've never been to a good "Eastern NC" BBQ!!!


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## Brook

You can almost place where you are by the barbecue meat of choice. 

For instance, through most of the south, barbecue is synonomous either with whole hog or pulled pork. But in some locales (i.e., Memphis, Kansas City, St. Louis) it automatically means ribs. 

In Texas, say "barbecue" and you mean beef brisket, no two ways about it. 

In the Ozarks it normally means either pork or chicken. 

In the north they confuse barbecue with "grilling," and don't seem to realize that 'cue is what you eat, not how it's cooked. So when they say "barbecue" it can mean anything from hotdogs to ribeye steaks. 

Barbecue style involves how you prepare the meat of choice. As discussed, in eastern NC it's cooked in vinegar and usually served with additional vinegar sauce. Western NC favors tomato based sauces, although there's a borderline that prefers vinegar/mustard. South Carolina opts for a vinegar/mustard sauce. In the general south, pulled pork and whole hog can be done with a mopping sauce or not---lot's of regional specialties. I've had whole hog in eastern Tennessee where they mopped almost continually. But I've had it in Georgia where no mop was used at all. 

Mephis style is with a dry rub, and, the on-going argument over whether wet or dry (which translates as with sauce or not---and they come to blows over it). Kentucky, as in many things, is an amalgum of styles. But there is a distinct western Kentucky style that, among other things, is oriented towards mutton. California, too, is an amalgum. But there's a distinct stylistic approach there using high heat and fast cooking, found nowhere else. They actually brag about doing a rack of ribs in less than an hour---to which I say, why bother? If it ain't low and slow, it ain't 'cue. 

Virtually all the sauces outside the Carolina's are tomato based, as are those used in virtually all significant barbecue contests. Both Texas and Kentucky, however, favor a tomato-based sauce that includes whisky---which means, of course, bourbon in some form.

Texans make their brisket with a dry rub, which may or may not be finished with a sauce during the last half hour of cooking. I do mine that way, fwiw.

There's also a growing trend, that crosses all lines, towards the use of beef ribs instead of pork. IMO, beef ribs should be braised. But what do I know?


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## drawinout

For me personally, I call anything cooked(as much as it hurts me to use this expression, I'll use it) "low and slow" barbecue. On the little POS smoker I have now, I've done chicken, turkey, baby back ribs, spare ribs, shoulders, and little pigs. Don't know how many "properly" cooked pigs you've come across Brook, but it doesn't take much sauce. If it's just the sauce you're worried about, you can always bring your own. Well, I say you can always bring your own sauce. Guess it depends where you're going.LOL


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## Brook

>Don't know how many "properly" cooked pigs you've come across <

I don't know what "properly" means, Drawinout. Notice that there are no value judgements in my last post; just observations of trends and preferences. 

I would go one step further with your definition of barbecue, though. Low & slow combined with dry heat equals barbecue. If the food is swimming in liquid, low & slow results in braising. Lot's of good braises out there (Moroccan tagines, for instance, are all braises). But they're not the same as barbecue. Nor is stewing (another low & slow process). Note that all three result in fall-off-the-bone tenderness because the connective tissues are all degraded. That too, is part of the definition. 

I've enjoyed barbecue all over the country, made with every imaginable meat protein---chicken, pork, beef, wild game and birds. Other than the eastern NC vinegar versions, and the western KY mutton, it's all good. 

Let me amend that. Obviously there are many people who enjoy eating meat soaked in vinegar. And just as many who love mutton. So there are no exceptions; it's all good. Just that some versions are less good than others.


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## drawinout

Brook said:


> >Don't know how many "properly" cooked pigs you've come across <
> 
> I don't know what "properly" means, Drawinout. Notice that there are no value judgements in my last post; just observations of trends and preferences.
> 
> I would go one step further with your definition of barbecue, though. Low & slow combined with dry heat equals barbecue. If the food is swimming in liquid, low & slow results in braising. Lot's of good braises out there (Moroccan tagines, for instance, are all braises). But they're not the same as barbecue. Nor is stewing (another low & slow process). Note that all three result in fall-off-the-bone tenderness because the connective tissues are all degraded. That too, is part of the definition.
> 
> I've enjoyed barbecue all over the country, made with every imaginable meat protein---chicken, pork, beef, wild game and birds. Other than the eastern NC vinegar versions, and the western KY mutton, it's all good.
> 
> Let me amend that. Obviously there are many people who enjoy eating meat soaked in vinegar. And just as many who love mutton. So there are no exceptions; it's all good. Just that some versions are less good than others.


To each his own I guess. I love all your input Brook, and lord knows I need most of it.:redface: If I'm cooking a whole hog, I don't need to drench it with anything!!!! This isn't some crappy eatery you see on the food network, we're talking about real BBQ. Braising or stewing shouldn't even be in the conversation. You show me a man that can braise a 160 pound hog, and I'll show you a Canadian!!!(No offense to Canada.) I don't want you to take anything I say the wrong way, because I do like most things you post Brook.


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## Rockfish1

Brook said:


> Other than the eastern NC vinegar versions, and the western KY mutton, it's all good.
> 
> Let me amend that. Obviously there are many people who enjoy eating meat soaked in vinegar.


you keep saying "soaked in vinegar"... obviously the one place you ate eastern carolina bbq had no idea what they were doing with it...


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## Brook

>I don't want you to take anything I say the wrong way<

I didn't take offense at anything you've said. Far from it. Was just clarifying.

The fact is, there are three million seven hundred thousand two hundred and forty one right ways of doing just about anything. Most of the differences aren't so much about technique as about personal taste---and there's no arguing with that. To do so is just an exercise in futility. Sort of like trying to refute an emotional argument. 

I brought up braising for two reasons; first to help focus on a definition of barbecue (which, as I said, entails dry heat). And second because many people _do_ confuse them. Example: Right this moment the recipe dump sites and cooking forums are filled with recipes for making "barbecue" in a crock pot. Basic instructions are to put the pork butt in the slow cooker, douse it heavily with sauce, turn the machine on, and walk away.

Now they can call it what they want, of course. But the fact is, that isn't barbecue. That's braised pork. 

>If I'm cooking a whole hog, I don't need to drench it with anything!!!! <

A perfect example of where personal taste and regional preferences come into play. In eastern Tennessee it isn't done right unless there is a mopping sauce applied as the pig cooks. Doesn't mean they're right and you're wrong. Just different preferences. And different merely means different. 

Another example. There are people who think the bark on pulled pork is all but inedible, and won't touch it. That's fine: just leaves more for me. But it doesn't make me right and them wrong.


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## Brook

>obviously the one place you ate eastern carolina bbq had no idea what they were doing with it... <

Mebbe so, Rockfish. Obviously I have no way of knowing whether they were doing it right or not---although all the recipes I've seen for that style seem to indicate that they were. 

All I know is that the place was jammed with folks all eating it with gusto, and making sneering comments about us "ketchup eaters." So, if they were not doing it right there are an awful lot of folks in that area who don't know it.


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## sprtsracer

Pulled Pork all the way!!! Gimme all types of sauce, and I eat the damn skin too, LOL! Ain't nothin' better! Fatback also works! Vinegar, vinegar/mustard, tomato based...I don't care! It's ALL good!!!


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## BubbaHoTep

When I was a kid and we'd go over to Myrtle Beach to close up our trailer over Thanksgiving weekend for the winter, we always got together with other folks there in the campground and did the whole-pig and "Eastern NC Style" in a big pit right there in the campground. I think the campground took the pit out of there to make room for more parking. Love the "pullin" the pork off there, for sure, and I definitely miss those days!!! I'll eat any "bark" that gets tossed to the side, too. LOL


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## big brother

The pick'in went really well, served about 350 instructors, well, not that many instructors, lots of admin. types showed up. Everyone got their fill, bbq, hush puppies, boiled taters, slaw, and nanner puddin. Classes started the next day so this is the first time I have had to report the results. If any of you guys happen to be around A-She-Ville when I'm doing one you have the cooks invitation.
charlie


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## drawinout

big brother said:


> The pick'in went really well, served about 350 instructors, well, not that many instructors, lots of admin. types showed up. Everyone got their fill, bbq, hush puppies, boiled taters, slaw, and nanner puddin. Classes started the next day so this is the first time I have had to report the results. If any of you guys happen to be around A-She-Ville when I'm doing one you have the cooks invitation.
> charlie


Sounds real good big brother!!! This thread sure has made me hungry for some pork. Might have to get a little pig for this weekend, or at least do a couple shoulders.


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## TimKan7719

Pork= good, beef=good, chicken=good, venison=good, turkey=good, seafood=good, and buffalo= good... Never really had a problem with anything that I have cooked or anyone has cooked for me..


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## drawinout

TimKan7719 said:


> Pork= good, beef=good, chicken=good, venison=good, turkey=good, seafood=good, and buffalo= good... Never really had a problem with anything that I have cooked or anyone has cooked for me..


Sounds like you know some good people.


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## kooler

here's a pretty entertaining song about BBQ
http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=6ubTQfr_tyY&feature=player_embedded

pretty well sums it up


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## sprtsracer

kooler said:


> here's a pretty entertaining song about BBQ
> http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=6ubTQfr_tyY&feature=player_embedded
> 
> pretty well sums it up


OK...I'm TICKED!!! There is no "clear cut" FLORIDA BAR_B_Q!!! Never even thought of that before! Ok all you Florida guys! We need to come up with our own! Citrus based? Key-Lime? Give me some ideas here! We could even use a datyl pepper based rub! Bar-B-Q'd gator tail? Give me some help here, and I'll prepare and test the recipes! Any ideas?


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## kooler

about 15 or so years ago there was this La. type seafood restaurant here in town that didnt last too long but they had a interesting thing on the menu that i tried: gator ribs. i figured it was just a name for something other than the real thing, but they actually had alligator ribs. i had eaten gator tail before but not ribs so i had to give it a go. they were more grilled than smoke but they were good. actually more meat on them than i would have thought. maybe you can do some gator ribs florida style.


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## Brook

>There is no "clear cut" FLORIDA BAR_B_Q!!! <

Personally, with all the unique cuisines found in Florida, I don't see any need for this. But to help out, here are some concepts and thoughts rather than actual recipes. 

Me, I would certainly start with one of the wild hogs that are all over the place down there. I'd try for a small one, maybe 80 pounds or so. And strive for a sow rather than a boar. Any Floridian hunter can help you out with this. 

I'd go whole-hog.

Then I'd do as you suggest; a dry rub using datyl peppers as the heat element. 

Then we have to look at Florida signature ingredients. That would include tomatoes and citrus for sure. So, a tomato-based sauce, using oranges and/or limes instead of vinegar. For sweetener I'd use date sugar, just to maintain the tropical flavors idea. That or molassas. 

As an accompanyment I'd make a hearts-of-palm slaw.

BTW, there's that Cuban-style barbecue (I never can pronounce it) popular in south Florida. That might qualify.


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## drawinout

kooler said:


> here's a pretty entertaining song about BBQ
> http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=6ubTQfr_tyY&feature=player_embedded
> 
> pretty well sums it up


 That's a good song!! I do like the vinegar, but good BBQ doesn't need anything..


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## drawinout

Brook said:


> >There is no "clear cut" FLORIDA BAR_B_Q!!! <
> 
> Personally, with all the unique cuisines found in Florida, I don't see any need for this. But to help out, here are some concepts and thoughts rather than actual recipes.
> 
> Me, I would certainly start with one of the wild hogs that are all over the place down there. I'd try for a small one, maybe 80 pounds or so. And strive for a sow rather than a boar. Any Floridian hunter can help you out with this.
> 
> I'd go whole-hog.
> 
> Then I'd do as you suggest; a dry rub using datyl peppers as the heat element.
> 
> Then we have to look at Florida signature ingredients. That would include tomatoes and citrus for sure. So, a tomato-based sauce, using oranges and/or limes instead of vinegar. For sweetener I'd use date sugar, just to maintain the tropical flavors idea. That or molassas.
> 
> As an accompanyment I'd make a hearts-of-palm slaw.
> 
> BTW, there's that Cuban-style barbecue (I never can pronounce it) popular in south Florida. That might qualify.


Brook, you do seem to know about food from a lot of different places. I'm guessing your job has something to do with food?


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## Brook

Part of my job does, Drawinout. Basically, I'm a free-lance writer. As you may know, freelancers aren't allowed to have hobbies. Everything becomes grist for the editorial mill. 

For starters I'm an avid foodie and amateur chef, have been all my life. Been cooking seriously since I was 12.

Freelance food, cooking, and culinary travel writing is one of the things I do for a living. I've written on these topics for publications as diverse as Mother Earth News, Taste of the South, Highways, Touring America, and Smoke & Fire News among others. 

I'm currently the cookbook reviews editor for Cheftalk.com, where I both write reviews and manage a staff of about a dozen other reviewers. I also do a Camp Cooking column over there.

And, of course, there's the Outdoor Cooking section of my website; www.the-outdoor-sports-advisor.com

A lot of my adult life has been involved with food. I was a short-order cook, for awhile (ask any honest Chef and he or she will tell you, in confidence, that short order cooks are the gods of the culinary world!). And, like everyone else, I've put in my time as a server---only in those days we were called waiters and waitresses. 

I also do various cookery demos for libraries, clubs, churches, and other venues. And I've been know to quietly cater a party or three. 

Many of the recipes I post over here are original.


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## drawinout

Brook said:


> Part of my job does, Drawinout. Basically, I'm a free-lance writer. As you may know, freelancers aren't allowed to have hobbies. Everything becomes grist for the editorial mill.
> 
> For starters I'm an avid foodie and amateur chef, have been all my life. Been cooking seriously since I was 12.
> 
> Freelance food, cooking, and culinary travel writing is one of the things I do for a living. I've written on these topics for publications as diverse as Mother Earth News, Taste of the South, Highways, Touring America, and Smoke & Fire News among others.
> 
> I'm currently the cookbook reviews editor for Cheftalk.com, where I both write reviews and manage a staff of about a dozen other reviewers. I also do a Camp Cooking column over there.
> 
> And, of course, there's the Outdoor Cooking section of my website; www.the-outdoor-sports-advisor.com
> 
> A lot of my adult life has been involved with food. I was a short-order cook, for awhile (ask any honest Chef and he or she will tell you, in confidence, that short order cooks are the gods of the culinary world!). And, like everyone else, I've put in my time as a server---only in those days we were called waiters and waitresses.
> 
> I also do various cookery demos for libraries, clubs, churches, and other venues. And I've been know to quietly cater a party or three.
> 
> Many of the recipes I post over here are original.


Travel writer sounds like an awesome job!!! Of course, I'd imagine you would have to be literate to have a job like that, so I guess that means I'm out back!!LOL J/K I actually saw a show about travel writers recently. The guy was saying being a travel writer is more work than fun.


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## Brook

>The guy was saying being a travel writer is more work than fun. <

I would have to agree with him. Don't get me wrong, it is fun. But traveling as a reporter is not the same as traveling as a tourist.

For instance, Friend Wife, also a travel writer, and I used to put on about 45,000 road miles a year. Doesn't take too many 500-mile days, back to back, to make you think there's a better way. 

Same goes for all aspects of what I do. Most of my writing career has focused on outdoor recreation. Those who don't do it think I have the best job in the world. Those who have tried it know better. Well, maybe it _is_ the best job. But it's not all fun and games.

Just one example: I used to be the Midwest correspondent for _Salmon Trout Steelheader_ magazine. Decided one time to do a profile of the steelhead streams of southeast Wisconsin. Grabbed a few buddies and off we went. In five days of exploring I got to actually fish about three hours.


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## Rockfish1

here's a site that's interesting to look through...

http://cuban-christmas.com/pigroast.html


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