# Assateague Island National Seashore



## SkunkApe (Dec 9, 2006)

I took a trip up to Assateague last weekend to stay at a cottage and meet the girlfriends family for the first time. Not so much a full blown fishing expedition but I brought my gear anyways. I have never been there, so I didn't really know what to expect. 

To get to the point quickly, mother nature has done a beautiful job creating this place, but "*The Man*" has really done it a disservice. 

Not doing any research, we loaded up the truck and ventured to the park on Saturday. After paying the $5 at the gate, we took a quick trip to the visitors center to chat w/ a person of knowledge. What I got was a 15 minute speech on what I couldn't do whilst visiting the park. It was more of _"Thanks for visiting, now don't come back, OK?"_ attitude I picked up. 

First of all it's $70 to even attempt to drive on the beach. Yes it's a yearly pass, but seriously. That's only to drive on a couple mile stretch, as "Tom's Cove Hook" is closed due to the dear Plover. It's goes steps up in price depending if you want to drive in MD (Day only), more for night time and up to $150 if you want to go to the "Bull Pen". 

I was handed a copy of "the rules", and it's as long as my arm. Just a brief highlight of some of the rules are as follows: 

-*NO PETS (EVEN IN YOUR VEHICLE)* 
-*NO FIRES (that got to me)  *
-*NO BEACHING THE YAK FROM 03/16-09/02*
-*NO ALCOHOL*

I pulled up to the edge where the ORV access starts and stepped out to the beach to toss a spoon for the hell of it. I witnessed the park police drive by at least 3 times in a 20 minute period giving me the stink-eye, just waiting for me to pull out a bottle of Mad Dog, light off a Thor Missile, pack a whopper bong hit and Sumo stomp a Plover nest. 

*What the hell did people do in the past to lock that place down like Alcatraz?* 

I don't get that vibe in Hatteras. 

Is it a Northern beach thing or what? 

And no, no fish caught. 

Skunk


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

> I don't get that vibe in Hatteras.


Yet. It's coming.


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## Mountaineer (Jun 19, 2006)

It's actually kind of awkward that you bring this up because I was just checking this place out for a possible summer beachside camping spot. I always like the VA Eastern Shore and that area of MD. All I want is a place to sand spike the tent down by the beach so I can do some fishing, swimming, and fireside beer drinking at night. Might have to look elsewhere if the Nazi's invaded that seashore.


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## cwood5cz (Dec 12, 2006)

I used to work for the NPS at Assateague Island on the Maryland side. Maryland is exlusively a national seashore. you can drink beer, have a fire on the beach and there is a bull pen where you can stay the night and sleep in your truck. That is the 150 fee. It is a bargain. Think about it. To camp there is $20 a night. For $150 you get unlimited camping all year and 15 miles of beach to drive on. Also, if there was no fee, the beach would look like a Wal-Mart parking lot. Would you want that? I think not. The only beach closed in Maryland is the north end where it is only accessible to hikers anyhow. That gives the birds nesting grounds there. My understanding of the hook is it is a great place to fish but is an important area for endangered plovers to nest. I understand beach drivers dislike the birds but just think if our beloved Striped Bass became endangered. We would surely want the spawning grounds off limits to increase the population. Hopefully with management and protectioon of the few underveloped beaches the birds can become self sustainable and we can fish along side the birds. Sorry your experience was not a good one.


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## Wilber (May 20, 2003)

Our son went to space camp at Wallops a couple years ago. To kill a day we went the the Island, oh my gosh, no swimmimg between the green flags, no surfing between the red flags, no fishing between the yellow flags on and on. Got out of the car and the beach was packed, got back in the car and left. It was kinda like going to the Moorehead city area and tring to get on the beach, forget it. We went to a public beach access and a guy had a table set up and wanted to charge $5.00 to park.


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## SkunkApe (Dec 9, 2006)

It may seem I'm over reacting regarding my experience there, but.....I'm used to camping/fishing in areas where the _*HEAT*_
doesn't rival the surface of the sun. 

It's nice to camp & fish and not be shadowed by "Big Brother" the entire time. 

And no, I don't shun the laws of the respective areas I camp at. That being said, I don't need someone looking over my shoulder making sure I don't. 

Skunk


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## notso (Jul 18, 2005)

cwood5cz said:


> the hook is it is a great place to fish but is an important area for endangered plovers to nest. I understand beach drivers dislike the birds but just think if our beloved Striped Bass became endangered.


Piping Plovers are NOT ENDANGERED.


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## cwood5cz (Dec 12, 2006)

Sorry...I meant threatened....would you feel different if red drum or striped bass were put in the "threatened category" b/c stocks plummented? Regardless, if not for the NPS seashores we would have homes along the beach and you would not be able to even gain access just to walk let alone drive a truck on the beach.


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## cwood5cz (Dec 12, 2006)

The "heat" at Assateague has decreased crime dramatically. At one time, people would get stuff stolen from their campsites and cars. Now that doesn't happen as much. Personally I'm thankful to have park rangers patrolling around. Makes me feel secure someone will not steal everyting I got.


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## SkunkApe (Dec 9, 2006)

cwood5cz said:


> Personally I'm thankful to have park rangers patrolling around. Makes me feel secure someone will not steal everything I got.


I'd rather camp where the only organism I have to worry about absconding from us has a tail. 

Skunk


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## cwood5cz (Dec 12, 2006)

I'd like to camp at places like that too. Unfortunatley places like Assateague is public and easily accessible by road and anyone who pays an entrance fee can enter. That includes thieves, child molesters etc. W/O a law enforcement presence there would be loads of crime and lets not forget about poachers.


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## SkunkApe (Dec 9, 2006)

cwood5cz said:


> I'd like to camp at places like that too. Unfortunatley places like Assateague is public and easily accessible by road and anyone who pays an entrance fee can enter. That includes thieves, child molesters etc. W/O a law enforcement presence there would be loads of crime and lets not forget about poachers.


I agree with you. More reason to stay off the beaten path and savor the sereneness. 

Skunk


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## blakester (Nov 19, 2008)

cwood5cz said:


> I'd like to camp at places like that too. Unfortunatley places like Assateague is public and easily accessible by road and anyone who pays an entrance fee can enter. That includes thieves, child molesters etc. W/O a law enforcement presence there would be loads of crime and lets not forget about poachers.


WOW Are you kiddin me? Yeah loads of criminals I know stalk the beach everynight. Give me a break. Looks like somebody has been watching to may NPS training videos. With a mentality like that why not shut down the entire eastern seaboard for the plovers to breed hassle free. Hell just shoot me now and get it over with.


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## SkunkApe (Dec 9, 2006)

blakester said:


> WOW Are you kiddin me? Yeah loads of criminals I know stalk the beach everynight. Give me a break. Looks like somebody has been watching to may NPS training videos. With a mentality like that why not shut down the entire eastern seaboard for the plovers to breed hassle free. Hell just shoot me now and get it over with.












I love fire, when it's not on me...


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## blakester (Nov 19, 2008)

I like it HOT!


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## blakester (Nov 19, 2008)

Lets not forget about the ever elusive plover poacher....LOL


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## Coast'n (Jun 19, 2007)

Skunk Ape... I hear you on the vibe from the man. I had fished Assateague for a few years before going to Hatteras for the first time. When I hit the beach in NC and fished with no fishing liscence, no park entrance fee, no crowd, no garbage on the beach and no man on patrol bothering you constantly I had a sense of true freedom. Oh yea... I caught fish in NC too. Unfortunately NC is becomming more like AI with the restrictions being put in place. It may be the difference in regional population numbers that drives the enforcement attitute.


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## cwood5cz (Dec 12, 2006)

blakester said:


> WOW Are you kiddin me? Yeah loads of criminals I know stalk the beach everynight. Give me a break. Looks like somebody has been watching to may NPS training videos. With a mentality like that why not shut down the entire eastern seaboard for the plovers to breed hassle free. Hell just shoot me now and get it over with.


what do you want a free for all. AI is near large population centers and huge crowds descend there. I worked the entrance station and know first hand. NPS Park Rangers provide for your security and safety while visiting these wonders that God has provided for us. They are the first responders when someone is lost or in trouble. Without their presence a law enforcement officer from the mainland would have to respond. In an emergencey situation every second counts. A far as the plovers, everything in nature has a specicial niche. take bats for example, they eat mosquitoes and AI definitely needs more of them.


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## blakester (Nov 19, 2008)

I thought the NPS went from janitor to bird expert in about 3 seconds.


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## cwood5cz (Dec 12, 2006)

blakester said:


> I thought the NPS went from janitor to bird expert in about 3 seconds.


It appears you are attempting humor but to inform you about the NPS and AI operations, they have biologists who are experts in their respected fields and they research everything from plants, deer and the birds. The maitenance guys clean the bathroom. If AI is a hassle there is always Ocean City and by the way the rockfishing is really great in the inlet. Lots of big fish move in there. You can pay for parking or do like me, park along the street for free and cart your gear to the fishing spot and have a blast. Night time is the right time.


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## blakester (Nov 19, 2008)

Oh I think Im quite well informed thank you. Are the biologists the ones who trap the foxes and then shoot them while their in the cage to protect the ENDANGERED birds. Or could it be that they let the park rangers in on the fun. Do you drive a subaru?


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

blakester said:


> Do you drive a subaru?




Thanks Blake, you owe me a keyboard...


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## Out Sick (May 27, 2006)

cwood5cz said:


> what do you want a free for all. AI is near large population centers and huge crowds descend there. I worked the entrance station and know first hand. NPS Park Rangers provide for your security and safety while visiting these wonders that God has provided for us. They are the first responders when someone is lost or in trouble. Without their presence a law enforcement officer from the mainland would have to respond. In an emergencey situation every second counts. A far as the plovers, everything in nature has a specicial niche. take bats for example, they eat mosquitoes and AI definitely needs more of them.


I personally woud rather it be a free for all. I'm just not a big fan of law enforcement. That being said, I undersatand they need to be there. But they don't need to have that "I'm a Cop!, I'm watchin you!" attitude as Skunk Ape experienced. Those guys are same ones that in grade school would say, "Im telling, I'm telling" "I'll tell the judge on you!" Thats basically what some/most cops are, grown up tattle tails. I mean, its a park. Just how much lawenforcement do you need. I say that after doing my internship at the largest municipal park east of the Mississippi. I for one, will not be headed to place ever. :--|Thank you for the warning Skunk.


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## cwood5cz (Dec 12, 2006)

Out Sick said:


> I personally woud rather it be a free for all. I'm just not a big fan of law enforcement. That being said, I undersatand they need to be there. But they don't need to have that "I'm a Cop!, I'm watchin you!" attitude as Skunk Ape experienced. Those guys are same ones that in grade school would say, "Im telling, I'm telling" "I'll tell the judge on you!" Thats basically what some/most cops are, grown up tattle tails. I mean, its a park. Just how much lawenforcement do you need. I say that after doing my internship at the largest municipal park east of the Mississippi. I for one, will not be headed to place ever. :--|Thank you for the warning Skunk.


I agree...lots of cops are tattle tales. I have to say with my experience at AI and working at a Virginia State Park that in parks, law enforcement will give warnings instead of writing tickets. Park Managers want people to have a good experience. You have to do something really dumb to get a ticket in a park like drink beer while driving 100 miles an hour, have a wild party with underage drinking, smoke a bong while drving into the ranger station, etc. In Maryland, you have to watch for the conservation police, they will set up a speed trap and get people who have been on the island partying. AI is a party spot for the locals at night b/c fires and booze is legal. Sorry you all don't agree with me about the beach there. Just know the facts and I also agree that some employees are biased and will give you the low down on what not to do first. They are required to provide regulations. Personally, I liked to talk fishing and keep in the know and then provide the rules. Just my 2 cents


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## cwood5cz (Dec 12, 2006)

blakester said:


> Oh I think Im quite well informed thank you. Are the biologists the ones who trap the foxes and then shoot them while their in the cage to protect the ENDANGERED birds. Or could it be that they let the park rangers in on the fun. Do you drive a subaru?


I drive a fish catching machine my friend


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## blakester (Nov 19, 2008)

You see this is the problem these radical enviro groups want all these national parks to become wildlife refuges as if these three inch tall birds dont have enough room to do their breeding. News flash there a park you know that land our forefathers set aside for human pleasure not bird breeding. The park service should be sued for what their gettin away with. 


So you got a fishin machine it must be one of those 4wheel drive subarus?


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## SkunkApe (Dec 9, 2006)

blakester said:


> You see this is the problem these radical enviro groups want all these national parks to become wildlife refuges as if these three inch tall birds dont have enough room to do their breeding.


The problem is that that 99% of us are responsible and respectful, but the "man" thinks that 99% of us want to create chaos and debauchery. 

Not pleasant for law abiding citizens. I felt like I was in Elementary school when I was there..."Go here, stand in line, now move this way...Ok, look at the turtle...now move this way..." What a joke! 

Skunk (Sorry for starting a fire. but that's my forte!)


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## wolfva (Nov 17, 2006)

I got a newsflash for ya'll. Cops aren't staring at your every move waiting for you to acidently goof up. Stop being paranoid. Hell, reminds me of the time I was in a grocery store and some jerk off starts yelling at me that "You aint' gotta watch me! I ain't no GD thief!" I hadn't even noticed the guy. But some of ya'll hate 'the man' so much you assume he's watching you /because, after all, you are SOOOO dangerous and all that/ that you have knee-jerk reactions. Most of the times a cop looks at you he notes that you aren't doing anything wrong and forgets all about you. You, of course, assume the worst. Guess it makes you feel important or something /shrug/.

It also strikes me that those of you who wish you could do anything you want would be the first people to demand the city/state do SOMETHING about those other folks who are ruining your fun by leaving trash, or running over your pole in a dunebuggy, etc. Face it, your arguement isn't about freedom or liberty. It's about you throwing a temper tantrum because you can't have your own way and screw everyone else. Grow up. I swear, I haven't heard this much petulant whining since the last time I babysat.


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## SkunkApe (Dec 9, 2006)

Wolfva, I have the utmost respect for law enforcement officials. I golf with a P-Town officer, good friend. I assume you work for one of the Hampton Roads departments, you may know him? Or Jimmy W that works for Sheriff dept? I don't hate cops. I hate being an "assumed criminal'. It's like being guilty until proven innocent. 

There are way too many ne'er-do-wells for you guys to worry about. 

My gripe is that the guys up there don't have anything to do but drive up and down the beach and give us law abiding citizens a sense that we're doing something wrong, when we're not. I've never been arrested, and I got one speeding Ticket when I 16 years old. So I don't have any vendetta towards the PD. (knock on wood). 

I guess the same holds true for the CBBT Police dept. Nothing to do but sit and wait for a little infraction, then BAM! 

No I'm not paranoid, because I rarely break the law, but I don't need this thing standing behind me when I'm tossing a spoon. 










I'll go fishing now and shut the proverbial pie-hole. 

Skunk


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## cwood5cz (Dec 12, 2006)

blakester said:


> You see this is the problem these radical enviro groups want all these national parks to become wildlife refuges as if these three inch tall birds dont have enough room to do their breeding. News flash there a park you know that land our forefathers set aside for human pleasure not bird breeding. The park service should be sued for what their gettin away with.
> 
> 
> So you got a fishin machine it must be one of those 4wheel drive subarus?


I drive a chevy aveo and it has plenty of room for my rods and coolers and to carry fish back home to eat. It gets me to the right spots every season and can get 42 miles per gallon on the highway. Makes fishing a lot less expensive for me and allows me to buy extra fishing rods and lures too because of the extra money I save in fuel costs. By the way, I consider myself a conservationist and thank God that he has blessed us with such wonderful places to fish like unspoiled natural places like National Forests and Parks.


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## Fishbreath (Nov 11, 2004)

SkunkApe said:


> I pulled up to the edge where the ORV access starts and stepped out to the beach to toss a spoon for the hell of it. I witnessed the park police drive by at least 3 times in a 20 minute period giving me the stink-eye, just waiting for me to pull out a bottle of Mad Dog, light off a Thor Missile, pack a whopper bong hit and Sumo stomp a Plover nest.
> 
> *What the hell did people do in the past to lock that place down like Alcatraz?*
> 
> Skunk


Now that's FUNNY!!!  MD20/20!! :beer:

Skunk, don't know if its a "Northern beach" thing but, yes, its more tightly controlled than either AI (Maryland) or our beloved HI. As for the fees, its the way it is and the price to pay for maintenance, patrolling, and other programs. The rangers are actually pretty decent and while they may look, they don't usually stop and harass. You have to be pretty blatant about drinking or smoking whatever you carry. I've had an open beer in plain sight when a ranger pulled up but it was not an issue. (I wasn't staggered drunk either.) As for the Plover issue....it sucks!!!!!!! Can I be more clear??? 

All in all, AI-VA is a decent place to fish. AI-MD is also, and while there may have been more locals there (MD) causing trouble in the past, I haven't noticed it when I've fished there. Just the rules tend to bug ya/me a bit.



cwood5cz said:


> I used to work for the NPS at Assateague Island on the Maryland side. Maryland is exlusively a national seashore. you can drink beer, have a fire on the beach and there is a bull pen where you can stay the night and sleep in your truck. That is the 150 fee. It is a bargain. Think about it. To camp there is $20 a night. For $150 you get unlimited camping all year and 15 miles of beach to drive on. Also, if there was no fee, the beach would look like a Wal-Mart parking lot. Would you want that? I think not. The only beach closed in Maryland is the north end where it is only accessible to hikers anyhow. That gives the birds nesting grounds there. My understanding of the hook is it is a great place to fish but is an important area for endangered plovers to nest. I understand beach drivers dislike the birds but just think if our beloved Striped Bass became endangered. We would surely want the spawning grounds off limits to increase the population. Hopefully with management and protectioon of the few underveloped beaches the birds can become self sustainable and we can fish along side the birds. Sorry your experience was not a good one.


I'm a conservationist/environmentalist as well but the birds are threatened not endangered. I know you corrected yourself in a later post but I also believe that the National Parks were set aside for the public's enjoyment and not for the personal interest of special interest groups like DOW or Audobon. I believe the rangers do a good job and are caught in the middle. 



cwood5cz said:


> Sorry...I meant threatened....would you feel different if red drum or striped bass were put in the "threatened category" b/c stocks plummented? Regardless, if not for the NPS seashores we would have homes along the beach and you would not be able to even gain access just to walk let alone drive a truck on the beach.


Um...the drum are currently protected and so were the striped bass for a long time. Their stocks are just now coming back but I don't believe the actions of recreational fishermen/women in public National parks are affecting the birds breeding habits. No, not one bit. Again, park rangers are caught in the middle....AND, there are good ones as well as bad ones....just my 2 cents.

By the way, anytime you want to fish, let me know


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## dirtyhandslopez (Nov 17, 2006)

Chris's fishing machine is like the Tardis form Doctor Who, smalll on the outside, big on the insides. Fit's two people, rods and two limits of Lake Anna striper
I have fished AI(when there was money availlable for the fee) and had a blast. Yea there's rules, but there's rules everywhere. Beers in cups and naps in the truck are were it's at, man. Never had a prob. with the rangers, just keep your eyes open and your good to go. One thing you don't see there (Va. AI) is many idiots. Everyone there is there for a good time, not to cause trouble. I reckon when the tip is closed, theres plenty of other places that are good a lot closer to home.


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## cwood5cz (Dec 12, 2006)

I agree...the parks are for the public enjoyment.....Our tax dollars and entrance fees help maintain them. We are all special interest groups whether fisherman, birders, nature lovers, whatever. We just want to enjoy God's creation in a National Park in a world where most everyplace is private and over developed. Even the threatened species are an interest that are worth saving. God meant for us to be good stewards of the land. We should abide by that and protect all species, not litter and pollute. I disagree with earlier posts about the rangers looking. That is their job. If they just rode down the beach staring out in space then the public's safety would not be served. They are just looking for infractions of the law and to see if anyone needs assistant. they will answer questions for you. They also no to scoop on the fishing. If you run into one ask.They are not there to harrass. Park rangers love the outdoors like we do. That is why they took the job. They are not there to be out to get everyone a ticket. Talk to them about fishing or hunting because they sure love to do both.


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## cwood5cz (Dec 12, 2006)

dirtyhandslopez said:


> Chris's fishing machine is like the Tardis form Doctor Who, smalll on the outside, big on the insides. Fit's two people, rods and two limits of Lake Anna striper
> I have fished AI(when there was money availlable for the fee) and had a blast. Yea there's rules, but there's rules everywhere. Beers in cups and naps in the truck are were it's at, man. Never had a prob. with the rangers, just keep your eyes open and your good to go. One thing you don't see there (Va. AI) is many idiots. Everyone there is there for a good time, not to cause trouble. I reckon when the tip is closed, theres plenty of other places that are good a lot closer to home.



Funny Darren,

Maybe that fishing machine will make it up to AI an HI this summer to catch a man eating shark and then back to LA for a limit of stripers for man to eat


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## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

cwood5cz said:


> I agree...the parks are for the public enjoyment.....Our tax dollars and entrance fees help maintain them. We are all special interest groups whether fisherman, birders, nature lovers, whatever. We just want to enjoy God's creation in a National Park in a world where most everyplace is private and over developed. Even the threatened species are an interest that are worth saving. God meant for us to be good stewards of the land. We should abide by that and protect all species, not litter and pollute. I disagree with earlier posts about the rangers looking. That is their job. If they just rode down the beach staring out in space then the public's safety would not be served. They are just looking for infractions of the law and to see if anyone needs assistant. they will answer questions for you. They also no to scoop on the fishing. If you run into one ask.They are not there to harrass. Park rangers love the outdoors like we do. That is why they took the job. They are not there to be out to get everyone a ticket. Talk to them about fishing or hunting because they sure love to do both.


Threatened or endangered, sure. But in the case of the piping plover (and a few other assorted shore birds that get lumped into the mix), it's a pseudo-science that's being foisted squarely upon the shoulders of fishermen who want nothing more than to get out there and wet a line. Being at the extreme southern end of their natual range, it is to be expected that there will be very few individual specimens in the Mid-Atlantic Region. We don't see many caribou or polar bears in this region either; perhaps we should close off access to *all *people the Washington DC area so they can breed in peace...

Look at Cape Cod, or Hatteras Island, or Tom's Cove, or a myriad of other places that are now off limits because some self proclaimed environmentalist declared that there should be more plover in the southern US and it's the fault of the fishermen that there aren't more. That's like saying there should be more tarpon in St. Louis, MO, and it's the fault of people drinking Budweiser. If I can't fish, drive, or otherwise recreate in National Recreation Areas, what is the point of having the National Recreation Areas? Heck, shut them all down, shut the NPS down, and give me back my tax money. I don't need to pay taxes to the Treasury to fund an agency so that they can tell me that the National Recreation Areas are off limits. The Defenders of Wildlife do that plenty much already  

This, my friend, is a purely political agenda designed to keep everyone (except a select few ) off the beach. When was the last time people abandoned their political agenda because it didn't work in the real world?  I can tell you when the last time a beach was closed for some pseudo-scientific political reason. Heck, I can name more than one example, in more than one state. When can you honestly say that the NPS has opened up a beach not previously accessible?


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## Fishbreath (Nov 11, 2004)

AtlantaKing said:


> If I can't fish, drive, or otherwise recreate in National Recreation Areas, what is the point of having the National Recreation Areas? Heck, shut them all down, shut the NPS down, and give me back my tax money. I don't need to pay taxes to the Treasury to fund an agency so that they can tell me that the National Recreation Areas are off limits. The Defenders of Wildlife do that plenty much already
> 
> This, my friend, is a purely political agenda designed to keep everyone (except a select few ) off the beach.


Great points...


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## cwood5cz (Dec 12, 2006)

AtlantaKing said:


> Threatened or endangered, sure. But in the case of the piping plover (and a few other assorted shore birds that get lumped into the mix), it's a pseudo-science that's being foisted squarely upon the shoulders of fishermen who want nothing more than to get out there and wet a line. Being at the extreme southern end of their natual range, it is to be expected that there will be very few individual specimens in the Mid-Atlantic Region. We don't see many caribou or polar bears in this region either; perhaps we should close off access to *all *people the Washington DC area so they can breed in peace...
> 
> Look at Cape Cod, or Hatteras Island, or Tom's Cove, or a myriad of other places that are now off limits because some self proclaimed environmentalist declared that there should be more plover in the southern US and it's the fault of the fishermen that there aren't more. That's like saying there should be more tarpon in St. Louis, MO, and it's the fault of people drinking Budweiser. If I can't fish, drive, or otherwise recreate in National Recreation Areas, what is the point of having the National Recreation Areas? Heck, shut them all down, shut the NPS down, and give me back my tax money. I don't need to pay taxes to the Treasury to fund an agency so that they can tell me that the National Recreation Areas are off limits. The Defenders of Wildlife do that plenty much already
> 
> This, my friend, is a purely political agenda designed to keep everyone (except a select few ) off the beach. When was the last time people abandoned their political agenda because it didn't work in the real world?  I can tell you when the last time a beach was closed for some pseudo-scientific political reason. Heck, I can name more than one example, in more than one state. When can you honestly say that the NPS has opened up a beach not previously accessible?



There were times I wanted to hike a beach to fish or just commune with nature but couldn't because mother nature was taking its course and the beach was closed. I just found another spot to hike and fish and thanked the Lord for the opportunity to catch fish and contribute my part to allowing another species to continue existence. Heck, it would turn out to be a blessing anyhow because the fishing would be hot. It's great to see the success story of striped bass making a comeback and the emblem of our country the eagle fly around. It's now a common occurence while I'm fishing along a river and a few lakes to see an eagle fly overhead. It makes the experience much more pleasurable. Just think, some day we can be fishing and see plovers and other threatned birds or animals more often and thank management for keeping these species from extinction.


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## Fishbreath (Nov 11, 2004)

I'm sorry but was that Mother Nature I saw carrying a shotgun and shooting a wild fox in Hatteras just because it was living as it should, in a National Park, but since the judge's ruling on the plover and oyster catcher, it became a "menace"??? Let nature take its course....


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## cwood5cz (Dec 12, 2006)

Yeah while working at AI myself and a few others didn't like the idea of shooting the fox. They said it would eat the plover babies and its eggs. After listening to people with an open mind I decided that it would be the right thing to do considering the circumstances. It just would be nice if the fur or meat could be used for something and not wasted. Maybe one day the plover population could be sustainable enough so that an egg could be harvested and fried while fishermen wait for a fish to bite.


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## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

cwood5cz said:


> ...Just think, some day we can be fishing and see plovers and other threatned birds or animals more often...


And perhaps some day we can see polar bears wandering around the National Mall, because, after all, if people hadn't settled here, there might be polar bears here too! 



cwood5cz said:


> ...thank management for keeping these species from extinction...


You have solid, scientific, definitive proof that this is not the work of the natural process of evolution, where species evolve, change, or die? What of the wild fox Fishbreath mentioned previously? Is it the natural process of evolution to program said wild fox to run headlong into the business end of a 12 guage? Where does one draw the line to protect one species at the expense of extinguishing another?


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## cwood5cz (Dec 12, 2006)

AtlantaKing said:


> And perhaps some day we can see polar bears wandering around the National Mall, because, after all, if people hadn't settled here, there might be polar bears here too!
> 
> 
> 
> You have solid, scientific, definitive proof that this is not the work of the natural process of evolution, where species evolve, change, or die? What of the wild fox Fishbreath mentioned previously? Is it the natural process of evolution to program said wild fox to run headlong into the business end of a 12 guage? Where does one draw the line to protect one species at the expense of extinguishing another?



To state the obvious...we have developed the entire coastline with resort cities beach houses and development. Humans have interfered with evolution. I'm not against human progress and people enjoying the beach. My point of this argument is that since there is limited space available for a natural community to exist shouldn't we help to keep what limited space available to allow natural communities to exist and "evolution" to occur? As far as the fox, if we had not have disrupted nature to the extent we have then the fox could eat the plover and still have many more plovers to eat. But lets all just enjoy the coastline while we can because it's a lost cause anyhow. The plovers will all be did within 50 years and many beach communities will either be flooded out or have flood walls around them


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## Fishbreath (Nov 11, 2004)

cwood5cz said:


> Yeah while working at AI myself and a few others didn't like the idea of shooting the fox. They said it would eat the plover babies and its eggs. After listening to people with an open mind I decided that it would be the right thing to do considering the circumstances. It just would be nice if the fur or meat could be used for something and not wasted. Maybe one day the plover population could be sustainable enough so that an egg could be harvested and fried while fishermen wait for a fish to bite.


That's like saying we should go out, catch and kill all sharks for eating drum and other protected species. It just doesn't make sense. And who were those people you (NPS) were listening to anyway? My guess is it was more of the same special interest groups who corrupt the facts and twist for their own agenda and benefit. And, for the number of nesting birds they're trying to protect (4 maybe???) it still doesn't justify the act, unless the fox was rabid. He'd have to be pretty good and hungry to find the nests or the birds pretty darned stupid in where they nest - ie on the beach where overwash from high storm tides occur thus wiping out their nests...JMHO....Mother Nature...gotta love her. 

As for eating a plover egg, not my thing and probably not many other's thing either, as fortunately, we don't have to live off the land. But, we do eat the fish we are able catch and keep, and release those we can't keep.


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## Fishbreath (Nov 11, 2004)

cwood5cz said:


> To state the obvious...we have developed the entire coastline with resort cities beach houses and development. Humans have interfered with evolution. I'm not against human progress and people enjoying the beach. My point of this argument is that since there is limited space available for a natural community to exist shouldn't we help to keep what limited space available to allow natural communities to exist and "evolution" to occur? As far as the fox, if we had not have disrupted nature to the extent we have then the fox could eat the plover and still have many more plovers to eat. But lets all just enjoy the coastline while we can because it's a lost cause anyhow. The plovers will all be did within 50 years and many beach communities will either be flooded out or have flood walls around them


True and not true. The birds will be here in 50 years because there are regions where they breed that man cannot interfere. As for the coast line, yes its limited, and should be protected against overconstruction, not restricted from access by people who respect it.

Nothing personal intended. Your opinion is your opinion but unfortunately this is a sore spot for many of us and it has taken away many prime spots, if not THE prime fishing spot on the East coast at prime time, again and again, and special interests groups with big bucks are the controlling factor.


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## wolfva (Nov 17, 2006)

The line between 'threatened' and 'endangered' may be as thin as road access. If closing down an area keeps the population of certain creatures viable then I'm for it. Let's remember, nothing lives in a vacuum. The extinction of one creature effects all others. 

As far as the fox shootings go, I can't help but wonder. What's the bigger threat to the plover? Foxes or feral cats? I remember a few years ago they killed a bunch of foxes at Craney Island to save the birds. Didn't do a dang thing because it was the cats eating most of the birds, not the foxes. But they needed to scapegoat something because if they'd gone out to shoot the cats you can imagine the outcry.


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