# look who wants to help the stripers now



## pier_man0909 (Feb 28, 2006)

http://hamptonroads.com.nyud.net/node/588354

I wonder how this will go.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

*Same way as OI bridge and NPS plans for the beach...*

This is some scary chit right here... These groups,judging from their track record so far,(if they get their hands on the controls) will be just what the doctor ordered for peta...


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## obxfisherman (Feb 4, 2011)

I think the whole thing's designed to create a massive uproar and bring radical change to the fishery.

Watch your backs people!


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## twitch (Jan 29, 2008)

The fallout from this could impact all user groups rec and commercial alike. As past events have shown, those groups don't play nicely in the sandbox with others.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

I'd normally welcome any group that wants to stop this nonsense. Hell, Greenpeace put up an honorable fight against Omega Protein a few years back that put our Internet bitching to shame. But neither of the groups in this article has taken a rational science-based approach on other issues.

I'm telling you, if recs and smart comms don't stop this mess it'll bite both us in the end.


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## Frightnight (Dec 15, 2010)

Well, I see that some people are worried how far these groups may go, but personally, I am glad there is a big boy to fight this fight. At least it will help save the fish, and then we can work on fixing whats right, but if we wait, there won't be any fish left to fix regs for.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Frightnight said:


> Well, I see that some people are worried how far these groups may go, but personally, I am glad there is a big boy to fight this fight. At least it will help save the fish, and then we can work on fixing whats right, but if we wait, there won't be any fish left to fix regs for.


 Yeap,that is what some (well meaning sportsmen) thought when they gave donations to dow and audubon.. These groups are "cloak and dagger",very smart,WAY TOO POWERFUL,and have an agenda.. IF they get there hands on the steering wheel of this issue,you will see just exactly what that agenda is.. Trust me,if you are a fisherman,be it com,rec,or even c&r you will not like it.. All the demonstrations you can muster,all the writings to congressmen and women will not help you,just speaking from experience..


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## jobxe327 (Aug 7, 2007)

I Study and work in production animal agriculture. And I can gurantee that nothing good. Nothing even slightly positive comes when these groups step in. Don't believe none of what you hear and half of what you see. I get as many of the opposition news letters as industry news lettrrs. These groups push a sad story to get the public and there money. To fight a hiden agenda. Don't think for a minute that these groups want nothing le ss than no fishing of anykind. Just as the hsus doesn't put a whole percent of the money it receives to help the poor dogs u see on tv. And I can tell you from my experience in the animal ag. Industry once they make a law or change a law it is nearly impossible to turn it around. As sad as it is I would rather see the slaughter continue aposed to these groups pushing there agenda on the issue. These groups are genius when it comes to trickery.


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## twitch (Jan 29, 2008)

Change the names and the activity.......This is how all of them work.


Cannibals and Useful Idiots

The following is real, and it’s here now. 

Joe Hunter goes to a cocktail party; nothing fancy, just a holiday gathering in Anytown, USA. A conversation begins with Bob Peta, it goes something like this:

Bob Peta: Say Joe, didn’t you go deer hunting this year?
Joe Hunter: Sure did Bob.
Bob: Man, that’s great, did you get one?
Joe: Yep, I sure did, a nice six pointer.
Bob: Hey, that’s great. Say listen Joe, you’re a true hunter, a “real” hunter are you not?
Joe: I sure am.
Bob: Say, I hear tell of a kind of hunting where people can go kill animals in fenced areas. You’ve never done that, have you?
Joe: No, no I haven’t.
Bob: Well, I wouldn’t call that real hunting, would you Joe?
Joe: Well, that’s not the way I hunt.
Bob: I know Joe, but there are people who hunt in fenced areas. I don’t think that’s really hunting, do you Joe?
Joe: well, uh, I guess not.
Bob: Great. Say, listen Joe, a group of us concerned “real” hunters are trying to get that method of hunting done away with. We feel it is unethical, will you help us?
Joe: Sure, because that is not the way I hunt, and I’m a real hunter.
Bob: Thanks Joe. Here is what we need you to do. As a real hunter the big boys in Congress and the Senate will listen to you. They know that any “real” hunter only hunts the way you do, and that’s the only real hunting there is. What we need you to do is get out there and get petitions signed, people will sign them because you are a real hunter, and they know that only your way of hunting is the “real” way.

So Joe diligently goes after the goal, to ban, and outlaw any kind of hunting that Bob suggest is not real hunting. He gathers up signatures, petitions courts, and makes meetings. He is really cleaning up this unethical way of hunting, he’s got a lot of support. He is gathering “real” hunters from all over, and finally, after much hard work, they get a legal way of hunting banned.

Bob: Joe, you did great and we sure appreciate your hard work, but let me tell you what I heard. There is another type of hunting that we think is not right. Could you help us again?
Joe: Well I guess so Bob. I don’t hunt like that, so it’s not real hunting anyway. How can I help?

It’s the same old story. It’s odd how Bob Peta keeps adding to the list of what “real” hunting is. However, Joe goes at it hard and heavy, and in the end, he helps get that type of hunting banned. Bob and his friends are happy. Joe is a “real” hunter, and these other guy’s aren’t, because the way they hunt is different from Joe, and Joe does not like that way of hunting. So what’s the harm in getting rid of that type of hunting. Joe is a “real” hunter after all, not like those other guys. He even goes to sportsmen’s organizations and recruits from within. It’s easy because they are all “real” hunters too.

Time passes, and more and more legal ways of hunting are banned. Bob and his friends are real happy with Joe, he’s been a real help. So after all the unethical ways of hunting are gone, Bob and his friends decide that it is time to get Joe’s way of hunting banned, the final chapter.

Joe: Bob, hey buddy, this is Joe. I know I helped you get rid of all those other forms of legal hunting, but now there is a move to get rid of the way I hunt.
Bob: Well Joe, I know. My friends and I are spearheading that movement.
Joe: But Bob, I thought you liked the way I hunt, and it was OK for me to do that type of hunting?
Bob: Well Joe, no, any and all types of hunting are bad, the poor defenseless animals never have a chance, and we dislike, actually we hate hunters.
Joe: But I thought the way I hunted was “real” hunting to you?
Bob: Joe, it was all real hunting, but we at PETA and HSUS hate you. Thanks for all your help, we greatly appreciate it.

You see, what Joe became was a “Cannibal”, a “Useful Idiot” to the anti-hunters at HSUS and PETA . They don’t give a rat’s backside how you hunt, what you hunt, or where you hunt, they just want all hunting done away with. The sad thing is that they use hunters against hunters for their causes. If you do not support any and all forms of legal hunting, or voice any decent about the way someone else legally hunts, you my friend are a “Cannibal”, and a very “Useful Idiot” to the enemy. Think twice the next time you mouth off against another hunter’s methods, they could be coming after you next.

Written by: John Wasmuth


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## jobxe327 (Aug 7, 2007)

Frightnight said:


> Well, I see that some people are worried how far these groups may go, but personally, I am glad there is a big boy to fight this fight. At least it will help save the fish, and then we can work on fixing whats right, but if we wait, there won't be any fish left to fix regs for.


I am not calling you out or trying to start a fight just using previous knowledge to answer some problems with this statement. 
This statement looks good on paper makes it sound easy just the way communisum did and we know how that ended. It's not practical in actually doing it. In a perfect world this might work but were in a far from perfect world. The way the legislative system works in this state and the whole US this would be practically impossible to straighten out what these groups would do. It wouldn't be in our lifetime before it was strait. Juat not how the system works . When I get to my computer and off this phone I can fill this page up with instances that have happened in animal ag with these groups. It's an eyeopener


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## Bocefus (Apr 19, 2010)

*these groups...*

I did some research on these guys, and they have a annual buget of 300 million dollars a year to try and stop ALL hunting and fishing rights for you and I.....


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*My 2 cents*

I would rather burn all my Citations, Break All My Custom Rods and Reels into little ity bity pieces, Cement and Sink my Yak, and never Fish again, rather then help these BOZO's in ANYTHING they do..

After 10 years of this CRAP, people JUST DON'T GET IT, and I am at Peace, with THEY NEVER WILL...

"One if by Land, Two if by Sea"

This is where you will see who is part of the CCA, and who is not..

It just plays right into their dirty little hands, with more Rec vs Com nonsense. Some folks do all three... We have been divided for over 30 years, and ya see where thats getting us....This sure ain't gonna help , seen this one coming a Mile away.. 
Shame or Sham or both..

Well Played.
JAM


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## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

ok, so how do we stop these guys from getting involved? As stated above, they dwarf us in size and money. How can we combat that? 

And what's our logical argument for wanting the same striper changes as them, but without their help? Here's my issue with this, even if we're right in not wanting them involved, we look small and petty by trying to exclude them. It's a smart move on their part because our only real move that allows us to keep face is working for the same policies as they do(at this stage in the game). To play Devil's advocate, if we were to say "no striper changes because that's what the econuts want", then we look foolish and spiteful. We have to be sure our message is sound, consistent, and reasonable. If they're for the same thing, we're really stuck hip and hip until they start expanding the limitations and advancing policies that aren't sound or reasonable. I know and you know that day will come, we need a way of incorporating that into the argument without sounding like conspiracy theorists. That's not to say there isn't a conspiracy(as we all know or suspect), but to say we have to make sure we present our argument without sounding crazy. Going too much into the conspiracy argument makes us look that way to the uninformed masses in my opinion.


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## jobxe327 (Aug 7, 2007)

The problem is u can't stop them there a mega power the only way u could possibly stop then is to stop thee money


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

jobxe327 said:


> The problem is u can't stop them there a mega power the only way u could possibly stop then is to stop thee money


 YEAP!! Problem is the $ just keep trickling from "well meaning folks" that have ABSOULUTLY NO IDEA as to the REAL AGENDA.. Just like the ole say'n "ya get in bed wid a snake yer gonna git bit"... jmho....


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## jeffreyweeks (Feb 5, 2009)

jobxe327 said:


> The problem is u can't stop them there a mega power the only way u could possibly stop then is to stop thee money


Well, you can also stop them from getting involved in the first place, and from winning political power and judicial victories second, but that would mean we have to have some changes.

I'm as worried about environmental groups become more active as anyone, but the best way to stop them is win the PR war and not have any big environmental kills or abuse.

So let's call it what it is...it is the MFC and DMF that have brought this on us, not recs or even small-time comm fishermen.

The best way now to stop them is get gamefish status for stripers as fast as we can. That is how other states have successfully kept environmental groups at bay. You don't often see them shutting down much rec striper fishing where the anglers went in and made major reforms first.

Unfortunately, NC has such a bad record and gamefish will be such a fight that it will take time. But fighting against environmental over-regulation for a rod and reel species is one thing. Trying to fight it while the trawlers rape the resource...well, there isn't any real defense we have right now.


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## Frightnight (Dec 15, 2010)

Well, to Everyone that has commented. I will be the first to saay, I really don't know anything about this, and "I don't feel called out" at all, I do appreciate you worrying about offending me, but I was not. I was just saying, because I am very worried about the situation that has been upon us recently, and I have never had to deal with any of this draziness here In Rhode Island, we just fish, and we don't have all this dtuff going on, but thanks for enlightening me everyone.


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## twitch (Jan 29, 2008)

JW wrote:*The best way now to stop them is get gamefish status for stripers as fast as we can. That is how other states have successfully kept environmental groups at bay*. You don't often see them shutting down much rec striper fishing where the anglers went in and made major reforms first.

I'd like to see some info on this. Links?? Sounds more like rhetoric from an anti commercial groups in SE NC. :redface:

I'm all for a commercial rod and reel season, but no way in hades, am I in for gamefish status. As far as waste, what will gamefish status offer over a rod and reel com. season?? Is the rec mortality going to be less than the commercial mortality using the same gear? 

Sounds like the push for gamefish is just another way to further the anti-commercial agenda. :spam:


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Putting every environmental group into the same basket is as bad as lumping small commercial fishermen in with the dirtbags culling these fish. Let's not loose our heads and confuse the kooks with the people who have their hearts in the right place.

At the end of the day, the comms need to get their act together and control their brethren. Think, for a minute, what most recreational fishermen do when they see someone poaching: they warn, then they call it in. You don't let somebody on your team make the rest of you look bad.

I think the guys up north have it right: turn this into a hook and line fishery. The commercials can cull to their heart's content and the small ones go back alive.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

sand flea said:


> Putting every environmental group into the same basket is as bad as lumping small commercial fishermen in with the dirtbags culling these fish. Let's not loose our heads and confuse the kooks with the people who have their hearts in the right place.
> 
> At the end of the day, the comms need to get their act together and control their brethren. Think, for a minute, what most recreational fishermen do when they see someone poaching: they warn, then they call it in. You don't let somebody on your team make the rest of you look bad.
> 
> I think the guys up north have it right: turn this into a hook and line fishery. The commercials can cull to their heart's content and the small ones go back alive.


 Flea,without doubt there ARE WELL MEANING FOLKS within those organizations... Although,I think you can relate to the plite that the three mentioned (dow selc audubon) have caused,and are causing for chnss and other seashores controlled by nps and usfwl.. As far as myself.. Have given $ as far as 20yrs in the past,after seeing some of the mysery caused by these groups,they will not get 1 more penny of what few I have...


H&L is a much better answer in regulating a trawler season (and the rest of the commercial striper catch as far as that goes) gone stupid,just as you said.. As many have said "hunting with a cannon" to catch 50 fish is waste in the making.. jmo


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## Frightnight (Dec 15, 2010)

I have to say,,, this forum is the best. Everyone offers their views, and comments, and they do it with class, and do it without trying to offend others. They say their piece with passion, and you get many views, and can really learn alot here. IMy hat is off to all of you, and you all make this a fantastic forum, and it is a pleasure to be a member here. You should see what goes on in my hometown forum.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*The Road to Hell is Paved with good intentions...*

nm



sand flea said:


> Putting every environmental group into the same basket is as bad as lumping small commercial fishermen in with the dirtbags culling these fish. Let's not loose our heads and confuse the kooks with the people who have their hearts in the right place.
> 
> At the end of the day, the comms need to get their act together and control their brethren. Think, for a minute, what most recreational fishermen do when they see someone poaching: they warn, then they call it in. You don't let somebody on your team make the rest of you look bad.
> 
> I think the guys up north have it right: turn this into a hook and line fishery. The commercials can cull to their heart's content and the small ones go back alive.


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## rhodyman (Oct 31, 2008)

*Sport fish status for the striped bass puts an end*

to both issues. Without it, the irresponsible comms, (NOT saying they all are, but, obviously, enough morons to ruin it for their industry), will continue with their insanity. And without recognizing the fact that there ARE sport fish, and that sport fishing is GOOD, the "environmentalists" will continue to attack us. Hooking up with them would be the same as asking the fox to guard the hen house. 

A simple, quick, easy, bloodless solution to a nasty problem. And one that is fair to all - including the fish.


:fishing::fishing::fishing:


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

rhodyman said:


> to both issues. Without it, the irresponsible comms, (NOT saying they all are, but, obviously, enough morons to ruin it for their industry), will continue with their insanity. And without recognizing the fact that there ARE sport fish, and that sport fishing is GOOD, the "environmentalists" will continue to attack us. Hooking up with them would be the same as asking the fox to guard the hen house.
> 
> A simple, quick, easy, bloodless solution to a nasty problem. And one that is fair to all - including the fish.
> 
> ...


 So,just take the com out of the equation,and keep the resource for us "more deserving" recs... That will surely unite us against dow and selc... In no way would that actually contribute to the "gameplan" that they have always used,right?


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## Redhorse (Mar 1, 2006)

Twitch,

I want to thank you for including that example for everyone following this thread. It illistrates a huge problem we as sportsmen and women must overcome... a lack of solidarity. One thing you have to give the anti's, they are ALL ON THE SAME PAGE and work hard for each other toward their common goals.

There are many fishermen who do not purchase a hunting license...many hunters who do not purchase a fishing license. Fewer hunters and fishermen (not all) do not support RKBA and get their concealed firearms license for their state (whether they intend to carry or not). The "I don't fish or hunt like that anyway" attitude prevails. Statements like "those bait hunters" or "those net fishermen" or "those black rifles" simply undermine the unity we need in order to fight the good fight. Those of us who are vigilant, and put forth the extra effort to battle these people on all fronts, are getting tired. Taking up the slack for all of those who do not realize what is going on in their own back yards, is taking it's toll. When will sportsmen and women finally come together...who knows. For all of you LURKERS out there, get active! 

Even though I am in Ohio, I have emailed NC legislators, and donated $$ to help OBX groups fight for me. Regardless of whether I ever get to come out and visit DrumDum and Tater at his place for another fishing trip, or make a red eye to Carolina Beach to meet Finger Mullet out there on the sand again. I hope you all can get some people MOTIVATED because I think you have a big battle ahead of you. Their tactic is a devious one!

APATHY in the sporting community is our BIGGEST enemy.


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## twitch (Jan 29, 2008)

rhodyman said:


> to both issues. Without it, the irresponsible comms, (NOT saying they all are, but, obviously, enough morons to ruin it for their industry), will continue with their insanity.* And without recognizing the fact that there ARE sport fish, and that sport fishing is GOOD, the "environmentalists" will continue to attack us.* Hooking up with them would be the same as asking the fox to guard the hen house.
> 
> A simple, quick, easy, bloodless solution to a nasty problem. And one that is fair to all - including the fish.
> 
> ...


That is what these groups want you to think, it is the divide and conquer plan in action. Gamefish status offers a false sense of security for the uninformed recreational angler. If you think offering the commercial industry as the sacrificial lamb will keep animal rights groups at bay, you need to think again. What is the next sacrificial lamb you are willing to throw to the wolves next time Dow and SELC come knocking on the door?
Regardless of what Jeffery or some of the other anti commercial brain trusts say, there* is *strength in numbers. You keep feeding sheep to the wolves, pretty soon you are out of sheep and your numbers will no longer keep the wolves at bay.

NCMFC needs to institute a rod and reel commercial season for those with a past history of commercial striper landings......problem solved.

And for the record I am a recreational fisherman with no financial ties to the commercial industry.


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## Danman (Dec 13, 2007)

Drumdum said:


> Yeap,that is what some (well meaning sportsmen) thought when they gave donations to dow and audubon.. These groups are "cloak and dagger",very smart,WAY TOO POWERFUL,and have an agenda.. IF they get there hands on the steering wheel of this issue,you will see just exactly what that agenda is.. Trust me,if you are a fisherman,be it com,rec,or even c&r you will not like it.. All the demonstrations you can muster,all the writings to congressmen and women will not help you,just speaking from experience..


ditto


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## rivercat (Nov 24, 2010)

O praeclarum custodem ovium lupum!


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## twitch (Jan 29, 2008)

O praeclarum custodem ovium lupum!* An excellent protector of sheep, the wolf!*


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## Frightnight (Dec 15, 2010)

Twitch,
Love the sheep & wof thing, well put. I would completely be on the side of comm, fisherman, if they went witl Rod & reel.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Frightnight said:


> Twitch,
> Love the sheep & wof thing, well put. I would completely be on the side of comm, fisherman, if they went witl Rod & reel.


 Twitch's got it,fox the henhouse,in bed with snakes,wolf watching the sheep.. Knowing what these groups are capable of should scare the chit outta any fisherman... It does me....


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