# best knot for 50lb line to 20 lb fluro ?



## surfmom (Nov 3, 2012)

any suggestions?


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## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2006)

surfmom said:


> any suggestions?


I like the Joe Kickass Knot. Start with a double overhand in the 50 and start to close it until it doubles over into a figure 8, just like starting a Slim Beauty Knot. Then, thread the 20 through the figure eight and tie a Uni knot around the 50.
Snug up the 50 knot and seat the uni against it. Very strong, easy to tie, nice narrow profile

I finish all of my knots with a dollop of UV knot sense


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## oden (Jan 23, 2012)

I usually do a uni to uni but a surgeons knot works well too. Both super easy and never failed me.


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## pods (Sep 10, 2013)

Damn Shane, that is the knot I thought I made up. Works well too. The single overhand slipped on me in testing so I went with a double and it is sweet. Small and strong.


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## surfmom (Nov 3, 2012)

I did the overhand with the uni. only problem is 50 lb line on a baitcaster= a birds nest lol


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## RjTheMetalhead (Dec 3, 2011)

surfmom said:


> I did the overhand with the uni. only problem is 50 lb line on a baitcaster= a birds nest lol


Is this braid? 50 mono is far too thick to throw any.
I usually run 15, 17 or 20 mono on those types of reels.


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

Albright knot, Bimini to No Name knot or Spider Hitch to No name


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

pods said:


> Damn Shane, that is the knot I thought I made up. Works well too. The single overhand slipped on me in testing so I went with a double and it is sweet. Small and strong.



I agree,the lines could be made with bimini in 20 to no-name or uni-nail.. BUT,if you are looking for diameter and strength(not as strong as mentioned before),slim beauty with uni conversion ain't a bad option...


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## rabbitdog2 (Aug 20, 2011)

Surfmom why are you using a 20# leader on a 50# main line?


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## surfmom (Nov 3, 2012)

rabbitdog2 said:


> Surfmom why are you using a 20# leader on a 50# main line?


because thats what I had and wanted to experiment 
and yes RJ im still learning
would appreciate any suggestions of main line to leader line not braid, my reel already has braid main with a mono leader that works great


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## plotalot (Apr 27, 2009)

pods said:


> Damn Shane, that is the knot I thought I made up. Works well too. The single overhand slipped on me in testing so I went with a double and it is sweet. Small and strong.


That isn't the official name of that knot. I use this not also, but call it a double overhand uni splice. I don't know an official name for this knot, but I like my name for it since it describes how to tie it. Call it what ever you like, its your knot, you made it up also. I remember inventing the Palomar knot and calling it a double line overhand loop, until I was straightened out on it.


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## pods (Sep 10, 2013)

plotalot said:


> That isn't the official name of that knot. I use this not also, but call it a double overhand uni splice. I don't know an official name for this knot, but I like my name for it since it describes how to tie it. Call it what ever you like, its your knot, you made it up also. I remember inventing the Palomar knot and calling it a double line overhand loop, until I was straightened out on it.


I tried a knot that Tommy said he uses (figured if it could hold his force mine would be a snap) but it always slipped so I did a double. Nice small knot and it is easy to tie.
Also experimented with two hook bottom rigs. I wanted the same lb test to my sinker as my shock. So I did double overhand knots in the main and uni through for my 20 lb fluoro drops. Keeps the hooks standing out from heavy line well. Then saw this one was already invented. I like thinking in depth about knots and experimenting. Helps with tying in general. (surfmom not trying to threadjack)


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## KAYO (Jun 21, 2002)

SurfMom, everything you wanted to know about knots:

http://www.netknots.com/fishing_knots

V/r,


Kayo


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## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2006)

plotalot said:


> That isn't the official name of that knot. I use this not also, but call it a double overhand uni splice. I don't know an official name for this knot, but I like my name for it since it describes how to tie it. Call it what ever you like, its your knot, you made it up also. I remember inventing the Palomar knot and calling it a double line overhand loop, until I was straightened out on it.


I thought I invented it too, that's why I gave it a cool name.

Surfmom, Is this a big grouper bottom rig? I can understand a smaller weight line for a leader for wreck fishing where you would want to be able to break off if necessary, but I can't think of many other instances where you would want to do this. For Surf fishing, the 50# would be used as a shock leader, but not the whole running line. A 20# flouro leader could be tied to that, but I bet most people would use a swivel there. I would.


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## Bocefus (Apr 19, 2010)

Slim Beauty....is all you need. When tied right the knot is twice as strong as your main line.


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## js1172 (Jun 5, 2012)

I use the red phillips knot, a drop of superglue if its tied with braid.
RR


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## surfmom (Nov 3, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I thought I invented it too, that's why I gave it a cool name.
> 
> Surfmom, Is this a big grouper bottom rig? I can understand a smaller weight line for a leader for wreck fishing where you would want to be able to break off if necessary, but I can't think of many other instances where you would want to do this. For Surf fishing, the 50# would be used as a shock leader, but not the whole running line. A 20# flouro leader could be tied to that, but I bet most people would use a swivel there. I would.


 ok so whats a good main line weight for the baitcaster, then shock leader, then flouro. I have some 65lb braid


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## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2006)

surfmom said:


> ok so whats a good main line weight for the baitcaster, then shock leader, then flouro. I have some 65lb braid


I use 15-17 for surf. you could go 20, but 15 is enough for most. It will haul in big rays, small sharks and most drum. Any higher will really start to impact your casting distance.


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## rabbitdog2 (Aug 20, 2011)

Get you a spool of Berkley big game 15# and get a 50 yard spool of 30 or 40# fluorocarbon and you're set. You can get it all at walmart.
I think the 15# big game is $7 or $8. The leader material is about $14. Tie a barrel swivel W/snap to the end of your main line. Tie a barrel swivel to the leader end that attaches to your main line. Tie a barrel swivel W/snap to the other end of your leader for attaching your weight.


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## rabbitdog2 (Aug 20, 2011)

Get you a spool of Berkley big game 15# and get a 50 yard spool of 30 or 40# fluorocarbon and you're set. You can get it all at walmart.
I think the 15# big game is $7 or $8. The leader material is about $14. Tie a barrel swivel W/snap to the end of your main line. Tie a barrel swivel to the leader end that attaches to your main line. Tie a barrel swivel W/snap to the other end of your leader for attaching your weight.


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## surfmom (Nov 3, 2012)

rabbitdog2 said:


> Get you a spool of Berkley big game 15# and get a 50 yard spool of 30 or 40# fluorocarbon and you're set. You can get it all at walmart.
> I think the 15# big game is $7 or $8. The leader material is about $14. Tie a barrel swivel W/snap to the end of your main line. Tie a barrel swivel to the leader end that attaches to your main line. Tie a barrel swivel W/snap to the other end of your leader for attaching your weight.


okay cool so I dont have to tie the lines together and the swivels will go through the guides when casting?


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## rabbitdog2 (Aug 20, 2011)

You don't want the swivel attached to main line to go through the end guide.


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## CJS (Oct 2, 2006)

If your rig is made of 20 pound fluorocarbon, a 50 pound shock leader is useless. Your terminal rig will break during a powerful cast. 

If your rig is made of light line, you shouldn't be power casting.


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## CJS (Oct 2, 2006)

If your rig is made of 20 pound fluorocarbon, a 50 pound shock leader is useless. Your terminal rig will break during a powerful cast. 

If your rig is made of light line, you shouldn't be power casting.


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## rabbitdog2 (Aug 20, 2011)

Everybody is giving Surfmom all this advice about shock leaders without ever laying eyes on her or inquiring as to her ability.
She is about 5'-2" and might weight 100#s. Her equipment consist of medium sized spinning reels and an old ABU 5500 that I gave her last year to practice with so she can become proficient with casting a bait caster. Her rods are about 6 - 7' long.
She fishes hard and wants to learn everything she can about surf fishing. All the advice she is getting from the experts is confusing her. She does not need to use a shock leader. 
PS; I don't know how far I cast maybe a 100yrds on a good day with the wind and I don't use a shock leader either.


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## rabbitdog2 (Aug 20, 2011)

Everybody is giving Surfmom all this advice about shock leaders without ever laying eyes on her or inquiring as to her ability.
She is about 5'-2" and might weight 100#s. Her equipment consist of medium sized spinning reels and an old ABU 5500 that I gave her last year to practice with so she can become proficient with casting a bait caster. Her rods are about 6 - 7' long.
She fishes hard and wants to learn everything she can about surf fishing. All the advice she is getting from the experts is confusing her. She does not need to use a shock leader. 
PS; I don't know how far I cast maybe a 100yrds on a good day with the wind and I don't use a shock leader either.


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## CJS (Oct 2, 2006)

Agreed rabbit. 

2-3 oz on 7 foot rods and you are good to go. 

If you are running rigs made of 20 pound test, you don't need a 50 pound shock leader.


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## surfmom (Nov 3, 2012)

so really all I need like Rabbitdog said is 15lb Trilene with a swivel clasp then just hook my 20lb fluro rigs. That is what I normally do, however with the new bait-casting rod and abu The rig snapped right off my pole. I thought this was because I did not have a shock leader. Maybe i just didn't have the swivel clasp tied good enough. Anyway my other reason for tying the fluro as a leader is so the fish dont see it, so I guess my question is if I am going to use fluro for a leader what lb should I use (my rigs are 20lb fluro tied river rigs) and what lb should I use as the main line? I already have my penn spooled with braid and Im thinkning using braid as a main would increase my chance of birds nest and braid is a pia to untangle, Id just spool it with fluro but that is pretty expensive


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## CJS (Oct 2, 2006)

On my light rigs, I run a 3' leader of 25-40# fluorocarbon connected to my mainline. This is not a shock leader,instead it gives me a little distance between the bottom rig and the green or yellow braid. The end of that gets a loop. The RR gets connected with a loop to loop knot. If Spanish or blues come by, the bottom rig gets clipped off and you have your bite leader ready for Your glass minnow.

If you want your rig to be invisible, connecting it to the mainline with a swivel defeats the purpose. More convenient but it sort of undermines the idea of a rig with no terminal tackle.

I would check you line for wear and your guides for nicks, I run 15 lb power pro on a 9 footer but haven't had problems with break offs.


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## Carolina Rebel (Aug 25, 2005)

Let me make sure I understand the situation entirely. You're using 50lb braid as a mainline, and connecting 20lb flouro leaders with a weight to this, right? If so, and you broke a rig off, it sounds like the spool was moving too quickly and caused an overrun. When this happens, spool stops, then the rig/weight stops suddenly, and the line often breaks at the weakest point, which is usually the knot connecting the rig to the main line. This is especially common with braids, since there's no stretch to absorb the shock of the sudden stop. 
If this is the case, the line is not really the problem in this case, but rather casting technique. You have to make sure you're not snap casting your baitcaster like you would a spinning reel. The cast should be more smooth, fluid process, and it does take practice. My best advice in this case: Get/make a practice plug, and use it in your yard whenever you can. People will look at you like you're crazy, and say silly things like "I didn't know there were fish here!", but so what? If they even know the pleasure of fishing, it will probably be with rotten shrimp on a rod and reel that can barely retrieve the oversized weight they're casting for pinfish in summer. 
I will profess, I prefer braid to mono even on baitcasters. On an Abu 5500, I would go with 40 pound braid, but 50 is definitely serviceable. If I am mistaken to this point and you're using 50lb monofilament as a main line, you definitely need to respool. Again 40 pound braid is good, and so is 14 or 15 pound monofilament; can't go wrong with either Trilene Smoothcast or Ande. 
With a 7 foot rod, you do not need a shock leader. Again, get your casting technique down and you will see a big improvement. With a 10 foot or larger rod, casting 3 or more ounces, you generate enough energy on the cast to require a shock leader. Not the case with a 7 footer and no more than 2 ounces of weight. You can go 3 ounces and bait on your setup, but only with a gentle lob. I toss that exact amount for catfish here regularly on a 7 foot Ugly Stik, and it requires no shock leader; rod does not generate enough energy. 
Finally, a swivel is fine for your application. Its only job is to connect your _rig_ to the mainline; it does not need to get inside the tip top guide on your rod. I avoid swivels when I can, because I prefer as low-visibility an approach as possible (and knots are less flashy than swivels), but I have caught plenty of fish either way. Swivel is definitely easier, until you learn to quickly tie knots connecting different sizes of line.


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## surfmom (Nov 3, 2012)

ah ok that makes sense.


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## SmoothLures (Feb 13, 2008)

surfmom said:


> so really all I need like Rabbitdog said is 15lb Trilene with a swivel clasp then just hook my 20lb fluro rigs. That is what I normally do, however with the new bait-casting rod and abu The rig snapped right off my pole. I thought this was because I did not have a shock leader. Maybe i just didn't have the swivel clasp tied good enough. Anyway my other reason for tying the fluro as a leader is so the fish dont see it, so I guess my question is if I am going to use fluro for a leader what lb should I use (my rigs are 20lb fluro tied river rigs) and what lb should I use as the main line? I already have my penn spooled with braid and Im thinkning using braid as a main would increase my chance of birds nest and braid is a pia to untangle, Id just spool it with fluro but that is pretty expensive


You don't need braid or fluoro main line for our fishing. Just get a nice 14, 15, 17, or 20 lb mono. Whatever fits best on your reel. If you have a 6500 Abu 14-17 lb mono will work great. 5500 I would recommend 14 or 15 lb. Berkley Big Game is just fine. Don't overthink it. 

For a general rule, if you're not throwing something on a 9-10'+ rod with 3-4 oz of lead plus bait you don't need a shock leader. I throw 3-4 oz sinkers as hard as I can on 7' rods with 14 lb mono all day long and have never had a problem. 

I run clear 14 lb mono on my whiting/pompano bottom fishing rods and simply tie that to my bottom rig with a 3-4 oz sinker.


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## bloodworm (Jan 5, 2007)

The flexible tip on short rods help as part of the reason not needing a shock leader


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## surfmom (Nov 3, 2012)

I use 3-4oz weights because I can get a further cast, and they tend to stay put better off the surf . If the water is a bit rough the 20z gets pulled in constantly Maybe I should get a bigger baitcast rod. Mine is 7ft 6 Inches


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## lil red jeep (Aug 17, 2007)

surfmom said:


> any suggestions?


If you are not doubling up the main line, and still want to be able to reel the knot into the reel, maybe try a good solid "Nail to Nail" knot. Made a lot easier using a Tie Fast tool, this knot is like those toy finger hand cuffs we all played with as kids. The harder they are pulled apart, the tighter the knot gets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=611JWRtkjOc


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## rabbitdog2 (Aug 20, 2011)

Do exactly what smooth and me are telling you. I'll be down in a week or so and I'll get with you and take a look at the knot you are tying. You should not be breaking 14 - 15# mono. at the knot. You may have a spool of bad line you can check the line by just tying a simple not in the mono and try to break it. If it breaks you got bad mono.


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## surfmom (Nov 3, 2012)

Ok rabbitdog ty!!!'''


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