# Surfmaster magging



## Arnav (Dec 17, 2020)

Hi folks, I'm considering magging a Surfmaster reel. It has the aluminum spool. However, the outer face of the spool that would face the magnet(s) has slightly raised radial ribs. Will these ribs have an adverse effect regarding the influence of the magnet(s) on the spool ?I have yet to open any magged reel and will ask you what is the distance of the magnets from the spool face when fully "IN" toward the spool,and then when fully "OUT" away from the spool ?
Thanks


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## animalbarrie (Jul 15, 2015)

Arnav said:


> Hi folks, I'm considering magging a Surfmaster reel. It has the aluminum spool. However, the outer face of the spool that would face the magnet(s) has slightly raised radial ribs. Will these ribs have an adverse effect regarding the influence of the magnet(s) on the spool ?I have yet to open any magged reel and will ask you what is the distance of the magnets from the spool face when fully "IN" toward the spool,and then when fully "OUT" away from the spool ?
> Thanks


Reach out to Matt at ReelKustomReels. But I would say save your money and invest in a newer casting reel. Gen 2 Fathom 12/15 have factory mags and won’t have any issues.


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## Arnav (Dec 17, 2020)

Yes, a new reel would normally be my first choice. The FII 15 CS looks really nice @ $210 but is hard to find in stock. However, I am a semi-retired precision aerospace machinist who loves to tinker and have a mostly dormant full featured CNC tool and die shop. I can make a spool, just cant anodize it. I'm sure everything imaginable has already been done / tried, but I do have a few ideas to experiment with. And.... right now I have more time (I hope) than $$$$$$. 
Thanks for suggestion.
Kind regards.


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## Arnav (Dec 17, 2020)

I also have a little Penn squiddler 146 (L) with an aluminum spool and ball bearings but its spool is ribbed too. It looks to be new in the box and appears to be a very nice reel.
I'd hate to butcher that one up. But I could make a new end plate for the magnet positioning mechanics.
Thanks folks.


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

If present, those side plate "ribs" can easily be ground off in the area you wish to place the mags. Here's a Surfmaster 200 that I just static magged. The side plate inner surface was already smooth so I just roughed it up and slow-set epoxied in 4 small washers. When cured, I added 1/16" thick N52 neodymium magnets in a line and placed north/south/north/south - this will produce the best eddy current effect for slowing the aluminum spool. The washers are 1/16" thick and the height of the washers plug magnet discs can't go much above 5/32" or the spool will be touched. I have some 1/32" x 3/8" N52 mags on order so that I can stack and tailor the magnets to suit the payload.











Here's a 140L Squidder that has side plate ribs and I just placed correct size washers between the ribs.


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## Arnav (Dec 17, 2020)

Arnav said:


> It has the aluminum spool. However, _the outer face of the spool_ that would face the magnet(s) has slightly raised radial ribs.


Hi Bob, thanks for the pics ! I have no problem with the frame side plate, my original question was regarding the ribs on the spool itself.
So, overall, were you satisfied with your modifications ?
Thanks again,


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

If the spool is truly made of metal, the ribs could be ground off. If that spool type is plastic it can't be magged since the spool needs to be made of metal to create magnetic eddy currents. Note that the spool does not need to be a ferrous magnetic metal, just some type of metal. Removing or adding anything to spools can all too easily upset rotational balance, something I wouldn't mess with personally, better to get a different spool. Randy is a great source for vintage reel parts, I got some great Squidder spools from him - [email protected]

Yes, static magging works extremely well. It's not as quick to adjust as with dynamic magging (but there's not enuf side plate to spool space for these reels to accept a dynamic knobby mag), but the quick side plate release on these Penn reels makes changing mags relatively easy.


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## slosh (Jul 1, 2017)

Given your available resources, I think the correct answer is a custom aluminum side plate with an adjustable magnet setup. 
I'd guess the ribs will be fine as long as the spool is metal. You could always start with a quick static mag job, just to see if the spool slows down.


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

Dynamic magging sure do depend on spool to side plate available space. I don't see enuf for a Surfmaster or Squidder, but there's enuf for most domed side plate Abu's, such as this 6501 I magged about 5 years ago. The special domed plate (angled) knobby mag is available from https://surfcastproshop.com/ for $30.


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## Arnav (Dec 17, 2020)

All good info, thanks guys. I'll look around a bit and gather more info. I also have some other reels to consider for experimental mods.


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## dawgfsh (Mar 1, 2005)

Just stadic mag it, works great on all my Newells


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## Arnav (Dec 17, 2020)

That will be my first step, thanks dawg.
I also have an okuma contender 20-C but cant find any info for it ... other than line caps.
Anyone here at all familiar with this model ? I think its old, but not sure. It does have ball bearings tho.

Thanks


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

Contact Okuma online, they will most likely have the full spex and schematic.


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## Arnav (Dec 17, 2020)

I did that about a week ago ..... never heard back from them.
Might try that again.
Thanks


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

Are you just looking for info or is there a problem with the reel that needs fixing?


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## Arnav (Dec 17, 2020)

Mainly, if anyone has any experience with the model, or something similar from Okuma. Maybe the age of it ? There is zero mention of it anywhere that I can find on the web. Looked around quite a bit. It doesn't appear to need any parts, yet, that I can tell. I'm wondering if it might make a suitable surf caster. It has ample yardage cap for lighter line.
Thanks.


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

There's more than mention of the 20c, here's but one - 






Okuma Contender 20c New in Box - Fishing Reels > Trolling Reels - FishAndSave.com Discount Fishing Gear and Tackle| FishAndSave.com


Fishing & Outdoor Gear by Okuma. Specs: Gear Ratio: 5.1:1 Wt. (oz.): 12.4 Bearings: 2 Line Capacity (yds/lbs.




www.fishandsave.com





Keep bugging Okuma, they should come thru for you, but if the reel was mine I wouldn't be too concerned. I'd "field strip" it, pop out the spool bearings and let 'em soak in naphtha for a few hours, then dry out and put 2 drops of red rocket into each, reassemble the reel, put on some quality 14-16# mono, stick it on a good stick and see how she casts.


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## Arnav (Dec 17, 2020)

Well ... there ya go !
That'll be the plan then.
It's quite a bit lighter than the Squiddler and Surfmaster too !
Anxious to try it soon. 
Thanks.


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

Other than those with plastic spools, most old Penns have those heavy, chromed, "flywheel" spools that can really add in the weight ... also, most are a good bit larger in both diameter and width than the typical Abu-like baitcaster. It's a good chance that Okuma you got will be a fine casting reel, as long as you do the proper prep, setup, and use a capable rod. Have fun!


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## Arnav (Dec 17, 2020)

I hope to get a chance to open it up this weekend when back at the shop. One thing I was wondering, and was searching for but never found, was if it had any centrifugal braking. Maybe that is what the C represents ? That ad you linked calls it a trolling reel. I wouldn't expect a troller to have any sort of brakes. This one might be the best candidate for some magnets. BTW, both of the Penns I have definitely have the anodized alu spools.
We'll see ... soon,
Thanks


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

Open it up, see what makes it tick! Clean thoroughly, grease, do the oil trick to the spool bearings, see what she does for ya! It's all good 'n' fun!


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## dawgfsh (Mar 1, 2005)

Arnav...That little squidder can be made to fly. It's biggest problem is slow retrieve speed.


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## Arnav (Dec 17, 2020)

dawgfsh said:


> Arnav...That little squidder can be made to fly. It's biggest problem is slow retrieve speed.


I was just fiddlin' with it this evening. I machines a small plate out of 1/8" aluminum. The OD fits the red plastic end plate bore precisely and rests flat on the 6 ribs. The ID is well clear of the clicker mechanism so there are no mods at all to the original parts. I milled 6 equally spaced shallow pockets .040" deep for the magnets (just some 1/4 x 1/16 I had layin around) With them stacked 3 high, they are quite close to and really brake the spool ... probably too much, but easy to go back from there. Many combinations available. If I find a range where I like it, I might make it adjustable from the outside.
Can't wait to get it on a flingin' stick and try it out !
Thanks


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## Don B (Jul 28, 2001)

Arnav, That is a great piece of workmanship. Out of curiosity, what is the tolerance capability of your lathe?

Regarding magnetic braking, there are static, mono, and center mag systems. My personal preference is to use a mono mag system. A big issue is having a magnetic range with enough power to deal with worst conditions and also be able to set a minimal magnet power that provides greater distance. 

I am with the gentleman who recommended making another side plate. However, a well (protrusion on the outside of the side plate) would enable the magnet to have a greater range of travel. Consider the magnetic effect to be inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the spool and magnet.

Should you want to research center mags, you may find a UK forum to be a good starting point.

Don


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## Arnav (Dec 17, 2020)

Greetings Don !
I have 3 lathes of varying degrees of precision. However, the greatest degree comes from the operator .
This was just a quickie to see the effect. Sure, I can make whatever I need, this is just experimenting with what I had in the desk. I could see a dramatic effect just by rolling the spool as quickly as I could with my finger. Anyway, I put the reel on a 6' catfish? rod and tied on a 2.5 oz sinker. (biggest one at warmart) 15lb w/ 30lb shock leader. Firsts casts were like reel was full of syrup, no fluff and only went 100 feet or so. So I took out 3 mags from the top layer and it casted 150 to 180' and just tried to fluff a little (when I messed up). So I removed the other 3 from the top layer and it got VERY fluffy, nested a time or 2 (my fault) and landed several 270 to 280'. (measured, not paced) Eventually, I definitely will have it readily adjustable from the outside, I fish !. I looked at a UK ad of an Akios end plate with a center mag arrangement. Great pics show the construction. But I don't understand how the knob adjustment does not affect the spool endplay ? The Squidder has a stationary bearing at the crank side with endplay adjusted at the other side ..... where the magnet center knob would be. The Akios, and maybe the Ambassadeur type are different as it looks like the stock end plate is solid with the only adjustment for sideplay being on the handle side. In the pic, how can this move the magnet plate without loosening the spool endplay ? Never been in one of these reels, just not seeing it. Unless ... there is an intermideate plate that secures the bearing ?, or the bearings are in the spool maybe.
Lotta fun !
Thanks


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## Don B (Jul 28, 2001)

"I have 3 lathes of varying degrees of precision. However, the greatest degree comes from the operator . " Understood. I was hoping you would say 0.0005"

60 yards is fantastic for a 2.5 oz, 15 lb, and 6 foot rod. For temporary use you may want to do a search on torpedo sinkers. They are an in line sinker that is usually used for trolling. The brass clips can come out of the lead. While I have not have any break off from the shock leader clip, a single brass leg has pulled free on a few occasions. Worse are bank sinkers. Both 6 and 8 oz have broken apart during the power stroke of the cast and the pieces flew out to sea. 

"Great pics show the construction. But I don't understand how the knob adjustment does not affect the spool endplay ? "

I tracked down the pictures and the side plates are listed for Akios 555 and 656 (not all models).
The Ambassadeur 5500/6500, Omoto Chief 5000/6000/530/630, and Akios 555/656 are of the ABU Ultra Cast spool design. Briefly said, 2 bearings and the spool axle are contained in the spool's arbor. Although spool endplay is important, some lateral movement is needed to prevent pressure across the bearings. Hence, in Ultra Cast reels, the two cast control caps should only be used to set spool positioning and amount of play. Important is the stability of the speed bushing. The threaded section in the picture replaces the speed bushing. The speed bushing stabilizes the spool shaft

The first picture clearly displays the size of the magnets being used by the modification. According to the ad, the magnets are N52 (one indication power) and the size is 8mm (diameter) by 5mm (thickness). Since the Omoto and Akios reels use one 6mm x ?mm magnet, it would seem the advertised side plate is over powered. As such, the range of control would be limited.


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## Arnav (Dec 17, 2020)

Hi Bob, yep, they are bank sinkers. That soft eye eventually tore out. I found some in-line trolling type sinkers but they are 8 and 10 0z. I looked around more and see the differences in reel types better now, thanks. I'll get some proper weights.

Yee Ha ! I put the Squidder on a heavier rod, an old 6' bay pole that was my Dads and tied on a 4oz piece of 5/8" dia. steel rod.
302' on the 3rd cast. I feel sort of like Chuck Yeager ... broke a barrier. (first 2 went left of center into the woods) Santa is running a bit late, I might just have a surf rod on the way 🤞
Thanks


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## Arnav (Dec 17, 2020)

Hi folks,
I was throwing pretty consistent at 95 +/- yds. , minimal fluff .. just a little on occasion so I think my technique is leveling out. Taking more magnets out tomorrow. All was going good till the rod flew out of the nipple that plugs into the handle and tried to pass the sinker. Got that epoxied back in and practiced a while more till my thumb got near frostbite. Good thing it was really, as I forgot to wrap that dang leader knot clear to one side and it bit me on the last cast of the day. Miller time. Here is my rig. No markings on the rod, but it is pretty stout. My dad used it for spooling in snapping turtles.
Never thought I'd enjoy fishin' in the field ! (passing traffic look at me funny) Quite enjoyable actually. Can't wait to get back to the ocean !
Thanks


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## Don B (Jul 28, 2001)

What caliber is that projectile? It looks like your shock leader is directly attached to the sinker. When your sinker tumbles when striking the ground, the line may be damaged when coming between the sinker and gravel or rocks. Usually an oval link is attached to the sinker and the shock leader is tied to the oval link by using a palomar knot.










These are available from Breakaway UK at reasonable prices.

As far as your thumb goes, cut a piece of inner tube to fit over your thumb. The length of the tube will be from about 1" to 1.5". The end of your thumb should be fully exposed to allow for control of the spool when needed. The fit should be snug but not tight.

"Never thought I'd enjoy fishin' in the field ! (passing traffic look at me funny) Quite enjoyable actually. "
Get used to it. The usual comments are: What are you fishing for? and Catching any?


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## Arnav (Dec 17, 2020)

Hi Don, (Bob earlier .... sorry),
I just loop the line through the weight because I have many trees in my yard with a very narrow casting lane and as often as not, I need to walk up and undo the weight then spool in the line, then reattach. I had a large snap swivel on at one time but even that would usually get snagged up in a treetop. I'll soon get the proper equipment and find a better place to practice. The weight is as mentioned earlier, 5/8" dia. steel x 4 oz.
Thanks Don


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## Don B (Jul 28, 2001)

Hey Arnav,

You have been very busy. 🙂

"Hi Don, (Bob earlier .... sorry)," No reason to apologize. It happens.

Concern is for others when a break off occurs due to line failure near the sinker. When this happens the sinker can travel extreme distances. There should be an awareness of the line condition at all times. Changing the shock leader before every casting session is highly encouraged. It looks like a clinch knot is being used in the above picture. Note the single loop of line going around the oval link. This can also lead to a dangerous situation. I have personally experienced the link pulling through 60 lb mono when casting a 4.5 ounce weight. To prevent this from happening, most distance casters will attach a shock leader to the link using a palomar knot. I suppose a double clinch knot might be satisfactory. With either knot, the line loops around the link wire two times. If you can't acquire oval links, strong split rings would be better than snap swivels. I have found that snap swivels have a tendency to come open.

OBTW, if necessary you could cut an 8 oz in line sinker in half.

And finally, you may want to step up your shock leader to 50 lb Hi Viz / Hi Vis.

Don


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## Arnav (Dec 17, 2020)

Thanks again Don, much appreciated.
I also noticed ... that was not a Palomar knot, I use them most places I can. I'm not at the point of casting with ANYONE around. I'm on a dead end road with only several cars, and a tractor going by daily and even wait for them to get by. And they're behind me !
I did have a 5oz one break off some time ago, before the Squidder, a Penn 85. I don't think it has landed yet. The local paper comes out once a week .. no reports yet (fingers crossed) maybe next week. I monitor the lines after each cast and have changed them several times, before they snapped. I lost a monster Muskie once due to a cheap snap swivel, been there.
I do have some 50lb line, was using that with the 5oz that is now in orbit. I've run out of yardage here at the house, will soon be going down the road to a field. One think I despise is having to go to the impact point nearly every time as the weight is stabbed too deep into the soft earth to be retrieved with the reel alone. I cast up .... then cast back. Too much walking. I've seen suggestions of baseballs, or lacrosse balls but haven't tried that. Maybe that would simulate weight and bait ? Seems it would reel back easier though.
I tie a loop on the end of the leader with a figure 8 knot, then loop on the sinker. Makes for quick and easy on/off when through the trees. I chamfered and polished the hole to make it easy on the line. I'll change all that when I get to the open field.
Cheers !


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

Looking good, Arnav! 

I prefer a knobby mono mag, if the reel allows. I just bought a new "CatfishPro 600 CTS" reel for $70/shipped, and immediately took it apart. Though made in china it's appears well made. The gears are all brass (even the level wind drive gears), s/s bearings and CarbonTex drag washers. It's comparable, if not a bit larger than an Abu 6500. I pulled the level wind and added a mono mag, so now it's a *CTM* 

Loaded with Sakuma .35mm (18#) and a 60# shock leader, ready for a shake down cruise whenever the weather obliges.


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## Arnav (Dec 17, 2020)

Hey ! quite pretty !
Right now I'm using Zebco lines from warmart. Cheap to play with. Just something about the old USA iron that appeals to me. I'd love to make this work. I'm gonna work on this as time (and money) permits.
Mrs. Santa says for me to expect a surprise ! Bless her heart, I cant wait !
Thanks,


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## Arnav (Dec 17, 2020)

Arnav said:


> Mrs. Santa says for me to expect a surprise ! Bless her heart, I cant wait !
> Thanks,


Well I'll be danged. I thought she said "break a leg", she actually said breakAWAY !
She got me a 13' Breakaway rod. 3 to 5 oz. Put my little Squidder on and ... wow.
Put on a 3 oz frog face sinker and gently threw it 112 yards.
Biggest problem is I'm shooting way off to the right (I'm right handed). Tried turning it loose later and changing my stance to the left a bit but still sailing to the right. Have to work on that.
Before the cast, I position the sinker at the first eye which is the half way point of the rod. Not sure why, it just feels right and that's the way I did it with the 6' rod. Suggestions, anyone ?
Can't wait for the weather to warm up, my thumb still gets numb from the cold.
Thanks folks, this is quite interesting.
Cheers ! 
Thanks Santa!


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

Hah! I have that same rod, the LDX, most excellent. 

Yeah, I was out this afternoon doing some grass casting with the Catfish Pro, into a 15mph wind with wind chill temps down freezing. Not fun. Where's the Summer????

OK, so now that we both have great rods 'n' reels, and no matter what the line it will always come down to CASTING TECHNIQUE.

SO ... what kind of cast style are ya doing? A simple "fisherman's foward flip"? OTG? Hatteras back swing? Full pendulum? Are you extending yer arms way out during the swing?


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## Arnav (Dec 17, 2020)

I watched this 
Tutorial on the Hatteras Cast
I'm sort of like this, but wind up my swing more horizontally. Kinda like the ground cast without actually going to the ground.
Like this Hatteras cast - Bing video but I guess I'm going wrong by doing my initial swings more horizontally. I'll focus more on that vertical swing. I am aware of my arms and incorporate the extension as best I can for now. I'm just starting slow, till I get in the lane. Not concerned with distance ,,, yet.
Thanks.


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

Yep, work on technique slowly, the speed will come later. 

I think the most important part is arm/hand extension. Most beach casters don't do that and keep their arms/hands in toward the body and in doing so there is a great loss of power transmitted from the unwinding body torque into the rod, then the payload getting launched. With a Hatteras cast, the swing can be near vertical or off to the side. The Hatteras cast was born as mostly overhead out of necessity when the beach was crowded during a blitz - no room for side casting. I think the key element of the simple single swing Hatteras is to watch the payload as it swings back and when it's at its apex is the time to push the rod forward with the reel hand as if the rod was a javelin. There's timing as to when that payload reaches its most rearward position, as to when to start the forward motion. That takes practice. Next is when the javelin forward push ends - that's when two things happen: the butt hand snaps the rod back and the thumb comes off the spool. Again, timing learnt through practice. All of this whilst having the proper footwork and aiming at the proper target: the sky, up at around a 45* angle and not the water and not the horizon (that will send the payload low and with serious lack of distance).


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## Arnav (Dec 17, 2020)

Great stuff ! Thanks!
I see, that foot work is key. I am consistent .... just way off the mark.
Looks like Tommy swings nearly straight back, where the other fellow does his swing further around, maybe 45 degrees or more. As he says, similar to a ground cast which IIRC starts with the weight at 270 degrees from the waterline. ?
Anxious now.
I'll watch for a report on that new Cat reel. Good Luck !
Cheers


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## Arnav (Dec 17, 2020)

BeachBob said:


> Open it up, see what makes it tick!


Well I finally got a chance to dig into the Okuma. There is nothing inside. No mags or c-brakes, just the endplay knob.
I loaded it with 14 lb test mono and gave it a whirl. A few thousandths side clearance, 7' pole 3oz lead. It does pretty good but it has to be closely controlled with the thumb. 90 > 95 yards consistently. Had a few nests, but what really buggered me was the line getting between the spool and the frame. Not sure if this happens during the fluff, ie: causing the nest ?, or if it happens after the nest has been built. Any experience with that ? This looks like a nice reel, and really sings but it is a bit fragile and flexible as when I pull the line out of the crack, there is sort of a "twang" and the gap closes back up ... smaller than the OD of the line. I don't see how in the heck it gets in there ? ? ?
Pretty sweet for $10 tho. And I really LOVE that ratio, compared to the Squidder !
Cheers.


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## Arnav (Dec 17, 2020)

BeachBob said:


> Yep, work on technique slowly, the speed will come later.


I noticed something else today while following Tommy's tut'.
By casting directly overhead, perpendicular to the waterline, the timing of the release only affect the vertical component of the cast and solely determines the trajectory and subsequent distance of the weight. The aimpoint and windage will be the same. But, by introducing a horizontal component, the release dramatically affects the vertical trajectory as well as the horizontal element which determines where the weight will go left or right of dead center. Looks like the further one strays from directly overhead, the more complex the timing of the release needs to be. My distance stayed about the same, but my accuracy improved tremendously by following Tommy's example, swinging basically straight back instead of the "round house" maneuver I was using !
It's all starting to come together.
Thanks Gents,


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

Yes, this is where the overhead Hatteras cast excels for both distance and accuracy.


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