# New flounder regs???



## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

*State proposes to tighten flounder regulations*
BY STEPHEN FURNESS 


CHINCOTEAGUE -- The Virginia Marine Resources Commission has announced proposed changes to its 2008 flounder regulations and is seeking comments before a final decision is made in February.

The five options listed by the commission include 18.5-inch to 19-inch minimum size flounder, with a three to five catch limit. Added to the options are closed seasons.

(Full article)

http://www.delmarvanow.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080130/ESN01/801300321/-1/ESN

Damn, 18.5" was hard enough from shore.


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## jay b (Dec 1, 2002)

Great another regulation that produces more gut-hooked fish that legally have to be put back in the water. The only difference is that now they'll be older, more mature, capable of reproduction and 18.99" instead of 18.49". 

Meanwhile all the states around us are allowed to keep more fish that are a lot smaller. As usual something sounds 'fishy'


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Good thing we got kayaks huh???


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## mud (Sep 23, 2007)

yeh and a boat!


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## Chugg'n & plug'n (Jul 3, 2006)

me thinks as long as people are keeping 10" fish there is only always going to be a problem. i say keep it where it is and check more shady buckets.


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## jay b (Dec 1, 2002)

Cdog said:


> Good thing we got kayaks huh???



Last year was good to me for Flounder from the Yak in quite a few different locations. Of course that was probably due to spending more time on it looking for them being that the sand bar at Lynnhaven got high-jacked by the city which was where I did most of my shore/wading fishing for them and everything else. Shoot me a b-mail when the season gets closer.


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## dirtyhandslopez (Nov 17, 2006)

Went to an Asian super market yesterday in Richmond. They had baby flounder(not even 10") and undersize striper, although to be fair, the stripers may have been wipers. Any size limit on wipers, or are they considered stripers? Is this something to alert the fishery dept. about? Can they do anything?


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

Wipers? You talking about hybrid stripers?


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## SkunkApe (Dec 9, 2006)

dirtyhandslopez said:


> Went to an Asian super market yesterday in Richmond. They had baby flounder(not even 10") and undersize striper, although to be fair, the stripers may have been wipers. Any size limit on wipers, or are they considered stripers? Is this something to alert the fishery dept. about? Can they do anything?


Was at Dockside and asked about the size limit for the Flounder that was in the seafood case. The guy said there are different regs for commercial & rec folks. But he didn't know the exact specs on it.


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## cuzdave (Jan 8, 2004)

The new regs for '08 are on the VMRC website. This is the first time I've seen this. I guess this was a fairly recent post:

[Regulation 4 VAC 20-620-10 et seq.]

Closed Season............January 1 through March 31
Closed Season............July 23 through July 28

Minimum Size Limit............................18.5 inches 
Possession Limit.................................5 per person 

The above flounder restrictions apply to Virginia tidal waters, except that in Virginia's Potomac River tributaries the minimum size limit, closed season, and possession limit will be the same as established by PRFC for the mainstem Potomac River. 

(Congrats 28 and 81 in the Pro Football Hall of Fame!!!)


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## lakebiker (May 22, 2007)

cuzdave said:


> The new regs for '08 are on the VMRC website. This is the first time I've seen this. I guess this was a fairly recent post:
> 
> [Regulation 4 VAC 20-620-10 et seq.]
> 
> ...


I wouldn't hang my hat on this one yet as they are doing another "study". Things are supposed to be final sometime this month. You can bet, the 18.5 and 5 is NOT going to be final. That said, I hope somebody can prove me wrong on this as I've not been able to find any info as to the "study" and recommendations being final yet.
Oh yeah, the commercials still get to keep their 14" ones.


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

9" fillets on sale at food lion, $8.99lb...:--|


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## Crashman65 (May 29, 2007)

*How it's figured....*

*I'm going to copy and paste some info from the MRC and some ESVA fishermen on how they figure new reg's and how to decrease the catch to balance from an overcatch in the previous year..*

"All,



The committee met tonight to consider options available under the final quota regime approved by the various entities involved in summer flounder management.





The net result is that Virginia needs to reduce its catch by 21.6% from 2007 levels. This is attributable to the difference between our 2007 estimated landings and the 2008 target landings and a "performance factor". The year to year target reduction is 14.3% and the performance factor is 7.3%. The performance factor is the percentage Virginia has exceeded its recreational target from 2001 to 2007 on average.



Here are the options we settled on to recommend VMRC consider for public hearing:



Option
Size limit
Bag Limit
Closure dates

1
18.5
3
1/1 - 4/15 and 7/21 - 8/15

2
18.5
3
7/21 - 8/23

3
19.0
3
1/1 - 3/29

4
19.0
4
7/21 - 7/28

5
19.0
5
7/21 - 7/30




We also asked about options like one fish at 18", but Rob indicated the available data would not support analyses for size limits less than last year's. The obvious pain of a long summer closure led us to prefer options 3 and 5.



Bob Pride"

*And then this was the reply...*



"Thank you, Bob. I have 2 minor corrections. Last night we did not actually calculate the change in reduction, when the committee requested the start date be moved back to July 21 (from July 23). Since a single day in July is worth 0.8% and the latter part of August is only 0.5%, a lesser amount of a season closure is needed than expected. The change is shown below, in Bob's Table in blue font. The other thing to mention is that there was a stepwise reduction of all states' target (or recreational quota), for 2008. First, a projected 2008 average weight was used, rather than the 2007 average weight, as most states will increase size limits and the average weight in 2008 will increase. This action lowered the Virginia target landings from 355,000 flounder to 342,000 flounder. Next, a performance factor for each state was calculated, whereby that performance factor equals the average of all the overages and underages of a state's annual landings compared to that state's annual target, 2001-07. For Virginia, the performance factor was 7.3%, meaning that since 2001, Virginia's landings averaged 7.3% more than the annual targets. With this action, the 2008 target for Virginia was lowered to 311,562 flounder. Since the Virginia landings in 2007 were 397,628 flounder, in order to meet the 2008 target, Virginia must provide the ASMFC and Commission options that will achieve a 21.6% reduction of 2007 landings, in 2008.



Rob

O'Reilly, Rob (MRC)"


*I hope this sheds some light on the theory and methods for determining our State Flounder Reg's*

This might be kinda hard to read but it's just the way it copied. Basically they switched a few closure days around to meet the reduction. By the way, this is all based on _estimated landings _ so it's all guess work.


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## Crashman65 (May 29, 2007)

*my honest opinion*

Let everyone keep 4 flounder per day, any size. If you have more than 4 fish you get 30 days in jail and $1000/per fish over the limit.

If you really want to get pissed check out the SC flounder regs... it's like 20 fish over 14"!!!


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

Here is my two pennies worth.

As P & S fisherman in Va. I like number 1 with a slightly modified to a shortened closure time. It’s hard enough to manage a coupler of keepers a year. I myself need only take home one fish per trip and really don’t need to do that I just like to fish for flounder, C & R is all I need. Now to someone that has a bigger family with more to feed that may be a little different. Now the boat fisherman may find it hard to swallow with a three fish bag limit. Some of these guys are looking for option 3 or 5. More fish to poses or a better time of year to fish. 

If this is what we need to do to help the stock out then so be it. Let bring back the flounder numbers for our next generation.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

*Just a FYI*

If you register on the Va Saltwater Journal there is a poll when you log in so you can put your input as to how you would like to see the regs go. Here is the link.

https://www.vasaltwaterjournal.com/


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## emanuel (Apr 2, 2002)

Come down to Florida where you can keep up to 12 - 12" flounder a day.

Georgia - 15 @ 12"


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

Is there even enough meat to make a samich on a 12" flounder?! 

One thing to think about on these regs is that they don't just think of shore fisherman. This is probably mostly aimed at the boat fisherman who have a much better shot at nailing flounder of size. An unfortunate side effect is that those of us that are shorebound have less of a chance of filling our freezer.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

basstardo said:


> Is there even enough meat to make a samich on a 12" flounder?!
> 
> One thing to think about on these regs is that they don't just think of shore fisherman. This is probably mostly aimed at the boat fisherman who have a much better shot at nailing flounder of size. An unfortunate side effect is that those of us that are shorebound have less of a chance of filling our freezer.


Yep the CCA will look out for the Boaters interest,you can bet your bottom dollar on that.


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

Cdog said:


> Yep the CCA will look out for the Boaters interest,you can bet your bottom dollar on that.


I think the CCA is looking out for ALL fisherman!


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

Fishman said:


> I think the CCA is looking out for ALL fisherman!


That may be true in some instances, but I can name at least 2 big struggles for access that they could help out with, and there hasn't been a peep from them.


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

Crashman65 said:


> If you really want to get pissed check out the SC flounder regs... it's like 20 fish over 14"!!!


Different Spieces.


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

basstardo said:


> That may be true in some instances, but I can name at least 2 big struggles for access that they could help out with, and there hasn't been a peep from them.


Which two?


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

Hatteras and here. More so Hatteras, but having an organization like CCA helping VCAN out wouldn't be a bad thing. So I guess, really 1 big instance, and 1 potential place to help. I know they did some stuff up in New Hampshire for access, and I'm a fan of CCA and their work, don't get me wrong. My point more than anything is that if we had a lot of these bigger organizations helping out and aligning with the rest of the smaller organization we could get a lot more done. Look what happened in FL with the gill netting. If I'm wrong about them not helping, I'll certainly withdraw my comments, but to my knowledge, they're not involved.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Fishman said:


> I think the CCA is looking out for ALL fisherman!


Really? What do you want to bet that CCA advises to go with a 5 fish limit at 19"?


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## baitslingin (Jul 31, 2005)

agreed.. option 5 seems like the logical choice


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

Cdog said:


> Really? What do you want to bet that CCA advises to go with a 5 fish limit at 19"?


They’ll do that for conservation purposes not because it a boat fisherman or a P & S fisherman. They believe it would be right for the majority, which might be the boaters. It’s just unfortunate that the P & Ser is in the minority.

Personally I don’t need a 5 fish limit for my self. Like I said in another post some will want the 5 fish limit.


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## Crashman65 (May 29, 2007)

*Digger*



Digger said:


> Different Spieces.


We are both right.

SC regs are 20 fish/day, 14". includes gulf, southern and summer flounder.


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