# 10' Castable Shark Rig, R/C Style...



## Railroader

Here ya go...I combined several ideas into one VERY well working rig. Over grass, deployment is 100%, over about 20 casts except the one time I threw it into a tree....

The supplies:

10' .080 Weedeater cord.

Berkley size 6, 210lb. crimp sleeves, crushed slightly in a vise, for pass-thru.

1 Eagle Claw L-197 (I think) 2/0 circle, cut off behind the barb.

The Directions and Photos...

From the top, slide the hook thru the sleeve, and crimp onto the line, 4' from one end, hook eye to the bottom.











Crimp on your top swivel...Done with the top.

From the bottom, slide on a big Coast Lock swivel, and crimp on another sleeve, 8" from the end of the line.










Crimp on the hook of your choice, Eagle Claw 10/0 Sea Circle in this case...Done with the bottom.

Here's what you'll be casting, 4' of cord up top, with a very manageable 6' drop. The bait will ride the slipstream of the sinker(s), but will allow Jaws to pick up the bait with no resistance, since it slides on the rig. 










The finished rig.










In the event that it does not deploy, your opponent on the other end will deploy it for you, on his first hard run. (hard run was simulated by pulling against the hook secured to the bumper of my truck.)


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## FishinAddiction

someone please put this in the Bible section!


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## AtlantaKing

So basically, the rig coils up the excess line and leaves a regular fishfinder rig + a few feet of line, right? 

I'm thinking that the addition of an impact shield to replace the cut down hook would ensure 100% deployment, plus ensure that your hands don't get cut up by the cut down hook when leadering a fish.


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## Railroader

AtlantaKing said:


> So basically, the rig coils up the excess line and leaves a regular fishfinder rig + a few feet of line, right?
> 
> I'm thinking that the addition of an impact shield to replace the cut down hook would ensure 100% deployment, plus ensure that your hands don't get cut up by the cut down hook when leadering a fish.



Right! You have a coil of line up top, when you cast....and a "normal" albeit BIG, fishfinder, on bottom. 

Impact shield, huh??? Not a bad idea...


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## Cdog

Prolly a stupid question since you are already casting a big bait but dosen't the coil cut down on aerodynamics?What sorta distance are you getting with the rig. I have used th pulley rig but even with that was only getting about 50-60yrds.


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## Railroader

Not a dumb question at all.

With my rig, an 8 oz. and a 5 oz. Lacrosse ball for simulated bait, my distance is in the neighborhood of 275' to 300'. 

Aerodynamics doesn't seem to matter as much as brute force, when trying to cast a 1 pound payload... 

Just so y'all know, the reel's a 545 knobby full to the gills of #40 Big Game, 80# Ande shock leader, and an OM-12H.


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## nine ought

*Damn*

well posted railroader! Good job. I would of never thought of using weed eater line for shark leaders! I'm with FA on this one very BIBLE WORTHY.


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## AtlantaKing

Railroader said:


> Right! You have a coil of line up top, when you cast....and a "normal" albeit BIG, fishfinder, on bottom.
> 
> Impact shield, huh??? Not a bad idea...


Actually, I was toying with an idea that would allow the use of a leader _as long as you like _and still have it fold down short enough to cast. It's based on Sgt Slough's double clip down rig, but with an Impact shield at the bottom. I'll tie one up this afternoon and snap some pics...


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## bigphil

Nice. I've been trying to come up with something because I dont like that other pulley rig that everyone seems to use. I've found it works better using just a dang sputnik sinker instead of trying to fix a cut hook or coastlock to it.


I'll have to try yours with some of my Suffix Tri ultra Lectric green or blue I got.


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## Jesse Lockowitz

the name is evading me at the moment, but a gentlemen from NC has pioneered the big pully rigs such as this. 


they work VERY good for surf sharking. they are great when u want/need that long leader and a big bait/weight 



good post RR



Jesse


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## AtlantaKing

Jesse Lockowitz said:


> the name is evading me at the moment, but a gentlemen from NC has pioneered the big pully rigs such as this.


Suburbon (RIP  )


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## Jesse Lockowitz

AtlantaKing said:


> Suburbon (RIP  )




yes, tyvm . and definately may he RIP.


MANY people ive talked to speak EXTREMEMELY high of him and all his donations to the fishing community. 



Jesse


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## Al Kai

Thats a sharp lookin rig.


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## barty b

Jesse Lockowitz said:


> yes, tyvm . and definately may he RIP.
> 
> 
> MANY people ive talked to speak EXTREMEMELY high of him and all his donations to the fishing community.
> 
> 
> 
> Jesse


Thats the Pulley rig I've been using for a couple years now. But, when deployed is not a "fishfinder" style. The lead has a fixed stopping point. 
Rob, as always I appreciate your genius,HOWEVER The first 5 footer you catch on that is going to severly damage the "bite" section of that rig, So I am not sure how many sharks it will be good for. Would it work if you crimped a section of braided cable or wire as a "bite leader" ? Just wondering, I have seen 6 footers "saw" 400lb mono off.


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## bigphil

I bet it wouldn't skip a beat with a piece of steel on the end. 

Might try to make one and head to the point on Sunday.


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## Railroader

barty b said:


> Thats the Pulley rig I've been using for a couple years now. But, when deployed is not a "fishfinder" style. The lead has a fixed stopping point.
> Rob, as always I appreciate your genius,HOWEVER The first 5 footer you catch on that is going to severly damage the "bite" section of that rig, So I am not sure how many sharks it will be good for. Would it work if you crimped a section of braided cable or wire as a "bite leader" ? Just wondering, I have seen 6 footers "saw" 400lb mono off.


If the circle gets him in the corner of the mouth, as it should, there won't be any "sawing off" problems. That one I caught the other day didn't do any damage to the weedeater rig...

I'll bet you lunch it'll be fine for anything I hook...opcorn:


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## barty b

Railroader said:


> If the circle gets him in the corner of the mouth, as it should, there won't be any "sawing off" problems.
> 
> True,somewhat, And your probably right...I just cant get past taking any chances with "probably". I am still kicking myself for not checking my leader the other night at Jekyll and losing that big one.
> I do like the concept of it though, I would just "feel better" with steel in the sharks mouth. I have had sharks on circles in the corner of the mouth, and if they turn into the leader, then the trace is now sideways in its mouth, I almost lost that 5 footer last year just like that. He ALMOST chewed through 90lb sevenstrand wire, And he was hooked in the corner of the mouth....Lunch huh? I like double cheeseburgers


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## barty b

AtlantaKing said:


> plus ensure that your hands don't get cut up by the cut down hook when leadering a fish.


We dont grab the leader, We grab the TAIL!


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## barty b

Simple solution..Screw the weedeater line altogether, Make the whole rig out of 800lb steel cable, It is actuallly thinner in diameter than the weedeater line. I think it's actually cheaper too. :beer:


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## Surf Fish

barty b said:


> We dont grab the leader, We grab the TAIL!


Yep, and sometimes it takes more than one grab....


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## Railroader

Well, you're on, then...Jim put me on the best farghin' burger I've eaten outside my back yard the other day... 

T-Ray's in Fernandina... 

We'll hit it after the next all nighter at Nassau Sound...


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## Railroader

Dang you Jim, you beat me to it...


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## Railroader

barty b said:


> Simple solution..Screw the weedeater line altogether, Make the whole rig out of 800lb steel cable, It is actuallly thinner in diameter than the weedeater line. I think it's actually cheaper too. :beer:


MAN OVERBOARD!!!!...


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## AtlantaKing

OK, I tied up what I thought it would look like with an impact shield in place of the hook. Just under the upper swivel is a cut down hook, tied so that the bend faces up. The impact shield would be installed about just over 3' down from the swivel that ties to the shock leader. Below the impact shield is another 6' of leader, a snap swivel and then another swivel. The 1' to 2' long bite leader would be tied (or crimped, if using wire) to this swivel. 

So, basically, the weight is pulled close to the impact shield, and the hook is "placed" into the hook of the impact shield. The remaining loop of line gets looped over the top (cut-down) hook so that the whole thing, when held by the swivel, is taught and 1/3 as long as the starting leader (imagine the entire leader folded into thirds). 

I tried taking some pics but I couldn't get the camera to focus on the mono and hold the loop and take the pic, but Sgt. Slough has a good diagram of the loop-up, clip-down rig. 










So, it's like the rig pictured above, but instead of the impact sinker, the impact shield is placed just above the sinker snap. This rig would effectively shorten the leader by 2/3, so a 12' long leader would be right around 4' long.


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## rattler

20 minutes in saltwater and that #80 will be #18...not designed for salt...weedwacker line is cheap chit...nice rig tho...


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## Railroader

rattler said:


> 20 minutes in saltwater and that #80 will be #18...not designed for salt...weedwacker line is cheap chit...nice rig tho...



What "80# will be 18#....the Ande shocker???


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## barty b

I think he's trying to say that the weedwacker line will loose strength. Not true...This part HAS beeen tested. A LOT of guys incorperate QUALITY weedeater line (not the cheap stuff) in their rigs and it does not fail. That red line I had by kawasaki is like 30$ for 150 feet. I have used it before with NO problems.


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## barty b

AtlantaKing said:


> OK, I tied up what I thought it would look like with an impact shield in place of the hook. Just under the upper swivel is a cut down hook, tied so that the bend faces up. The impact shield would be installed about just over 3' down from the swivel that ties to the shock leader. Below the impact shield is another 6' of leader, a snap swivel and then another swivel. The 1' to 2' long bite leader would be tied (or crimped, if using wire) to this swivel.
> 
> So, basically, the weight is pulled close to the impact shield, and the hook is "placed" into the hook of the impact shield. The remaining loop of line gets looped over the top (cut-down) hook so that the whole thing, when held by the swivel, is taught and 1/3 as long as the starting leader (imagine the entire leader folded into thirds).
> 
> I tried taking some pics but I couldn't get the camera to focus on the mono and hold the loop and take the pic, but Sgt. Slough has a good diagram of the loop-up, clip-down rig.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, it's like the rig pictured above, but instead of the impact sinker, the impact shield is placed just above the sinker snap. This rig would effectively shorten the leader by 2/3, so a 12' long leader would be right around 4' long.



Robs rig is basically a "hanging drum rig" In the one you have pictured your hanging the trace,In Robs rig your hanging the coiled up leader ABOVE the lead and bait. The trace on Robs rig is only 6".
RR correct me if I am seeing this wrong.


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## toejam

Railroader nice report,-- I have fished with rigs similar to yours, the only different being I put another crimped cut-off hook facing downward so the two cut-off crimped hooks, hook on to each another during the cast and disengage on spashdown. You can also streamline the loose line using an old Hawian method of rolling serval sheets of toilet paper up tight and tying around the lose line. It will hold together during the cast, but will come apart in the water thus releaseing the line..... Hey I will give yours a try,,a little less work , Heh? BTW, I like a short steel bite leader for that "just in case of" .


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## HuskyMD

Why does this Atlanta King character keep trying to hijack the thread? RR posted a nice rig and AK keeps coming back with stupid little comments and pictures of spot rigs. This thread was intended for SHARK rigs, not perch rigs. Maybe we should change his handle to BURGER king?


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## bigphil

hawaiin method with TP sounds interesting.

I think AK is not trying to hijack, just weigh options.

I've got rigs that have probably 20 hours and to numerous a fish to mention that haven't lost any noticeable strength. Mono, weedeater, suffixx whatever line. And not all line (of the weedeater variety) is the same. I stay away from the flourescent kind because the two types I've seen stretch really bad.


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## Mark G

HuskyMD said:


> Why does this Atlanta King character keep trying to hijack the thread? RR posted a nice rig and AK keeps coming back with stupid little comments and pictures of spot rigs. This thread was intended for SHARK rigs, not perch rigs. Maybe we should change his handle to BURGER king?


Your only contribution is to crap on somebody elses contribution to the discussion?


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## AtlantaKing

barty b said:


> Robs rig is basically a "hanging drum rig" In the one you have pictured your hanging the trace,In Robs rig your hanging the coiled up leader ABOVE the lead and bait. The trace on Robs rig is only 6".
> RR correct me if I am seeing this wrong.


Actually, in the pic from Sgt. Slough, the length of the trace can be as long or as short you want it. The rig I tied up actually has the trace at around 8", with the loop up being part of the leader. The beauty of this is that regardless of the length of the trace, the bait, when clipped, is always right behind the sinker during the cast. Now, with a big shark rig that's long, instead of putting the hook in the impact shield, you can loop the leader on the impact shield, then back up to the "cut-down" hook and _then _putting the hook in the impact shield. Essentially, the rig would be coiled once more, so that the clipped rig would only be about 1/5 as long as the expanded version. I don't know if this makes any sense without pictures, but I tried it yesterday with the rig I tied, and it does work. I shortened a 10' long rig to a 2' long package for casting. 

Oh, and don't worry about HuskyMD...he's just busting my chops because I didn't hold him back from buying the Gulps at Dick's yesterday, thereby spending his lunch money on it and now he has to eat Gulps for lunch! :--|


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## HuskyMD

I'm just starting the pre-morningstar trip smack down...busting his chops for sure...


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## Sea2aeS

man, nothin against railroader or anyone else, but check out Subs page on the pulley rig. I personally put em to work on 150+lb carhoods & a 5 ft biter last night at the pt. works wonders. tough as nails & easy to cast. Bulletproof, and even a toofy one couldnt snip the 400lb, though it was purdy frayed, but the short section is easy to replace. heres Russ,s site. :beer: 

http://home.earthlink.net/~biters/


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## trowpa

Very nice - I like that rig. My I have been using Malin wire for trace - any reason not to use that instead of the #400lb mono? I find it easier to just do haywire twists in the malin wire versus crimping #400 mono - and would think it would hold up better.


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## TreednNC

They had them chewing cable last year up at Hatteras last year...as well as years prior. Seem to remember people liking some sort of single strand instead of cable, as single strand would slide inbetween teeth and multi strand would get caught and sawed in the teeth....but idk


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## Sea2aeS

my understanding was that if it can bite through 400lb mono, then ya really dont need to be messin with it anyways. Makes sense, as I was doing it solo last night. I cant see myself dragging 200+lbs of garbo up on the beach. 

I use a small hand gaff, and slide it through the swivel and use the gaff to drag em up on the beach. very easy way to do it. gaff tip through the swivel, then drag em. it worked like a champ for me. all my doubts on the pulley rig were put to rest last night. Im amazed at how strong, and tough this thing is. 

Im also amazed at the strength of suffix now. some damn good line... suffix got put to the test and i figured with as much heat as i was puttin to them carhoods in close, it woulda broke. Im sold on suffix tri now... .


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## bstarling

*Ain't so*



rattler said:


> 20 minutes in saltwater and that #80 will be #18...not designed for salt...weedwacker line is cheap chit...nice rig tho...



That weed wacker line is super tough and salt water won't faze it. Made of the same stuff as any other monofilament, nylon. I've caught several BTs on the stuff and it is tough. A toothy one can bight through it in a second if he gets it right though. I have one rig than't going on its third year and several sharks. 

Bill


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## Finger_Mullet

*I am with you BStarling.....*

At Croakerfest I witnessed bill using weedeater line for a leader. He had like 20 ' of it. It brought in a 6+' black tip that was hooked in the a$$. That was a hard pulling fish. That weedwhacker line is some tough chit!!!!!

The companies that make weed eater line makes fishing line. Check out Sufix.com.

Darin


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## barty b

*Sharks that can cut 400lb mono*

Here ares ome examples of things you can catch from the beach near shore that will LAUGH at 400lb mono. All these pics are "borrowed" from Team Oldskool of Florida.























































AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST.........










I could go on but you get the picture. Serious shark fishing is a whole different ball game. I,for one am working on my skills to be able to land sharks such as the ones above. Sure 5-6 footers are fun on surf gear,and I will NEVER knock it, But the places I fish, You never know when a STUD will eat your bait, I want to be able to land it.


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## TreednNC

Please do go on lol. I love those sea monster pics from the beach


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## Sea2aeS

I couldnt agree more Barty. It is what it is. I was told the lack of using wire was due to sharks nack for sensing electrical current and less wire = better.... I use the pulley rigs on heavers in close past the drop off with a whole small bluefish
they worked fine for what I was doing. I dont have a yak yet, or the large enough gear to charge after gnarly sharks of the size above. NOT YET ATLEAST


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## barty b

*Sorry Rob*

Consider this thread officially HIJACKED! 

S2S Your right about the "magnetic sensory" of sharks...To combat this we coat our wire or steel in liquid plastic or "PlastiDip" spray. I also coat the hooks.








I will usually coat the hook as well but this one has been used and needs to be recoated. You can wrap it in electric tape as well. I got this tip from the Texas guys and it really improves pick ups.
I cant rip pics from this site but here's the link

http://groups.msn.com/TEXASSHARKFISHING/homepage.msnw
It's run by a guy named Chris Deaver AKA Powerfisherman. This is THE land based shark fishing website. I have learned a shatload of stuff from these guys.


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## barty b

TreednNC said:


> Please do go on lol. I love those sea monster pics from the beach


Here ya go, 189 pics in the gallery
http://www.swordfishingcentral.com/gallery/beach-shark-photos


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## Jesse Lockowitz

mhmmm


barty how many u get down there ? 


ima bring the yak and 50w down ur way...for a few days of sharking..


got any beaches where people arent at?




Jesse


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## bigphil

Fish porn.


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## barty b

Yeah Jess, Plenty..I dont really care if theres people around or not...They usually leave shortly after something like that gets beached. It's that time of year so bring it on Grad Boy!!


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## barty b

Like I said, Imstill working on my technique and all. You dont just "show up" at the beach and expect to catch,much less beach a shark like those. It take a team of about 3 guys to make it happen. Anything over 7' is a handfull for 2 guys. I have been there when a 12' Hammer was beached in St Pete. It took the crew of 3, 1 hour and 45 min to get it to shore and then another 30 to get it tail roped and on the sand. It was a definate eye opener on "Big sharks".


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## Jesse Lockowitz

gimme a place to crash barty, and me u and THE RAILROADSTER can do it to it.

i supply yak + big reels if u supply sleeping place haha



Jesse


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## trowpa

OK - so for wire - only drawback is magnetic issues - so you coat with plastidip. 

Still wanna know - anything wrong with haywire twists for wire and knots for mono? I'm using...

Trace: #12 malin wire (180lb test). Haywire twists to hook & swivel
Rub leader: 250lb mono knotted connections to swivels.

Should i be using crimps for the mono instead?


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## Railroader

Trowpa,

The problem with single strand wire is that if it kinks, it's GONE...Wedge it between the teeth, or in the corner of the mouth, a couple good headshakes, POP!


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## Surf Fish

After working in the electronics business for a number of years, I fail to see how a piece of wire in salt water generates electricity. 

Would somebody care to explain that theory?


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## Railroader

barty b said:


> Like I said, Imstill working on my technique and all. You dont just "show up" at the beach and expect to catch,much less beach a shark like those. It take a team of about 3 guys to make it happen. Anything over 7' is a handfull for 2 guys. I have been there when a 12' Hammer was beached in St Pete. It took the crew of 3, 1 hour and 45 min to get it to shore and then another 30 to get it tail roped and on the sand. It was a definate eye opener on "Big sharks".


Well, You know I'm on your team, and I'll back your play... 

For now......I think I'm probably good up to 8 footers with heavy surf gear. Until I get sick of 7 and 8 footers, I'll sit back and watch you and Phil with the BIG GEAR and see what happens....opcorn: I got y'alls back, of course, when the wrestling match starts...but what the hell are we gonna do with a 12 foot Hammer???   

Cross that bridge when we jump off it, I guess...


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## trowpa

so 
1. mono/weed eater - will be sawed through 
2. Braided cable can be cut through one strand at a time - more easily than single strand 
3. single strand can kink and break.

All have disadvantages...guess i pick my poison?


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## Railroader

Surf Fish said:


> After working in the electronics business for a number of years, I fail to see how a piece of wire in salt water generates electricity.
> 
> Would somebody care to explain that theory?



I can explain what I've READ, but that's all...Imagine biting on a piece of tin foil, against a tooth filling...Not pleasant.. 

Supposedly, sharks are very sensitive to metal in a similar way. In practice, I've seen my Weedeater cord rigs out-catch metal rigs on the SSI pier. Never seen metal out-catch mono.

I think the less metal, the better...opcorn:


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## Railroader

trowpa said:


> so
> 1. mono/weed eater - will be sawed through
> 2. Braided cable can be cut through one strand at a time - more easily than single strand
> 3. single strand can kink and break.
> 
> All have disadvantages...guess i pick my poison?


I once caught SEVENTEEN 3-5 foot sharks in one night, on the SAME weedeater cord rig. It was trashed, but still pullin' 'em in.

I've NEVER caught seventeen of ANYTHING on the same rig, ANY other time...

Usually one King, Cuda, Big Jack, or Tarpon ruins a single strand rig...

Braided cable doesn't last very long either...It kinks and frays...

Until I get a weedeater cord rig bit off at the hook, I remain convinced that it's the best option.

Pick your poison, mine's .080 WEEDEATER CORD.


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## Surf Fish

trowpa said:


> so
> 1. mono/weed eater - will be sawed through
> 2. Braided cable can be cut through one strand at a time - more easily than single strand
> 3. single strand can kink and break.
> 
> All have disadvantages...guess i pick my poison?


Losing fish is an integral part of fishing. Nobody lands EVERY fish they hook. 

Ask yourself a question. 

At what point do we reach rediculous? 

Back a tow truck up to the water and yak out the cable, that'll work if we need a guarantee. 

Or stretch a net out across the inlet and yak out some dynamite and a case of hand grenades.

Personally, I don't see why anybody would beach a 9, or 10, or 11 foot shark. Cut the damn line and let it live, not to mention that it's probably just a tiny bit on the dangerous side to drag an 11 foot long hammer head up onto the beach. 

Seems like I remember seeing somebody get tail slapped by a little five foot shark a while back. If it'd had been a ten footer, we would have left him on the beach with a broken leg, because he's too heavy to carry a mile back to the parking lot....


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## trowpa

Thanks - I might just give the weed eater a try. guess i'll have to get into crimping  don't think you can knot the weed eater stuff eh


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## Surf Fish

_I can explain what I've READ, but that's all..._

Ok, well I think I'll have to put the electric wire leaders theory right up there on the list with Diet Pepsi for soaking shrimp....

If dragging wire thru salt water generated electricity, all the power companies in America would have been built on the beach.


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## Railroader

Surf Fish said:


> Losing fish is an integral part of fishing. Nobody lands EVERY fish they hook.
> 
> Ask yourself a question.
> 
> At what point do we reach rediculous?
> 
> Back a tow truck up to the water and yak out the cable, that'll work if we need a guarantee.
> 
> Or stretch a net out across the inlet and yak out some dynamite and a case of hand grenades.
> 
> Personally, I don't see why anybody would beach a 9, or 10, or 11 foot shark. Cut the damn line and let it live, not to mention that it's probably just a tiny bit on the dangerous side to drag an 11 foot long hammer head up onto the beach.
> 
> Seems like I remember seeing somebody get tail slapped by a little five foot shark a while back. If it'd had been a ten footer, we would have left him on the beach with a broken leg, because he's too heavy to carry a mile back to the parking lot....



ROTFLMFAO... 

Jim, you owe me a keyboard....I just spit a mouthful of chocolate milk all in mine while reading this post....And the MZ. is pissed because she has to clean it up...


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## Railroader

trowpa said:


> Thanks - I might just give the weed eater a try. guess i'll have to get into crimping  don't think you can knot the weed eater stuff eh



Weedeater cord can be snelled to the hook. You'll need a bench vise for the hook, and two pairs of pliers, to tighten...Comes out nice and clean, though.


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## Sea2aeS

what about me???? damn cocktwitz I mean lockowitz.  

Barty--- do you ever do anything besides think fishing 24/7??? are you human???? every question I could ever think of you got it already figured out, wtf


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## Surf Fish

_*Until I get a weedeater cord rig bit off at the hook, I remain convinced that it's the best option.*_

It is, as long as you use a circle hook. If the shark is gut hooked, the leader is in his mouth. With a circle hook, hopefully that won't happen. 

I fished with J hooks and wire leaders for bluefish for years (sharp teeth too). With circle hooks I fish for them with mono leader, and have very few hooks get chopped off.

The circle hook is the trick, not the weedeater line....


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## Railroader

Good "point"...


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## Surf Fish

*I've NEVER caught seventeen of ANYTHING on the same rig, ANY other time...*

I've never casted 17 times without blowing up the reel and losing the rig....


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## Sea2aeS

surf, the wire & electricity thing is 'electrolysis' very low amounts of electricity. we wouldnt feel it due to small size, but enough to keep the toothy ones away at times.


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## Surf Fish

Sea2aeS said:


> surf, the wire & electricity thing is 'electrolysis' very low amounts of electricity. we wouldnt feel it due to small size, but enough to keep the toothy ones away at times.


Ok. Maybe that explains why female sharks don't have a moustache too  

Hey RR, check your mail and see if your Florida license plate got there this time.


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## Lip Ripper

note to self- if im going to be in a situation where a shark could bite me, be sure to put a piece of wire leader in my pocket.


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## barty b

Sea2aeS said:


> Barty--- do you ever do anything besides think fishing 24/7??? are you human???? (


No, Not really


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## Railroader

Surf Fish said:


> Ok. Maybe that explains why female sharks don't have a moustache too


Whatever the hell you've been drinking tonite, bring a half gallon of it to Nassau Sound on the 19th...:beer:


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## barty b

Surf Fish said:


> Seems like I remember seeing somebody get tail slapped by a little five foot shark a while back. If it'd had been a ten footer, we would have left him on the beach with a broken leg, because he's too heavy to carry a mile back to the parking lot....


 Jim are you calling me fat??


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## Surf Fish

barty b said:


> Jim are you calling me fat??


No, but if we had to drag you off the beach with a broken leg, nobody would be left to watch your cart. And I'd guess that you and the cart together would go about 650 pounds, and that's too heavy to drag off the beach so we'd just have to leave you there...


----------



## Railroader

Man...

Talk about a thread spinning out of control.... 

But it sure is FUNNY!

Yeah, Jim, I got the license plate. NICE. If you haven't, send it to Barty...He'll love it.


----------



## barty b

Surf Fish said:


> After working in the electronics business for a number of years, I fail to see how a piece of wire in salt water generates electricity.
> 
> Would somebody care to explain that theory?


It doesn't...However, Sharks "see" through magnetic impulses and signatures, Like porpoise with sonar, Their lateral line picks up bio-magnetism....I am not sure how this works,but look at it this way...some people believe that magnets help with blood circulation,hence bio-magnetism. Sharks are VERY sensitive to this,so any metal on the bait or rig sets it off as 'not natural". 
A common misconception with sharks is that they are mindless eating machines. Not true, They are actually pretty picky about their meals. Sure they will "taste" anything but for them to actually commit to a bait is another story.
RR is right, Less metal the better,but then you have to sacrifice strength of your rig. My solution is to reduce the exposed metal or "insulate" it as much as possible.


----------



## barty b

*And then there is this*

Like dogs, sharks rely on a keen sense of smell to track down food. But new research shows noses aren’t the only way that sharks detect smells: Their entire bodies, in fact, function as giant noses capable of even picking up the “shape” of a smell.

Running down the sides of every shark are nerve-packed strips called lateral lines. Researchers know these sensitive structures can detect the faint vibrations emitted by living things in water, but their ability to pick up scent was previously unknown. Even more surprising, researchers said, is that lateral lines can detect the 3-D “plumes” of scents — structures resembling the turbulence left behind after waving a hand through thick fog or steam.

"Odor plumes are complex, dynamic, three-dimensional structures used by many animal species to locate food, mates and home sites," said Jelle Atema, a Boston University biologist and co-author of the study detailed in an upcoming issue of the Journal of Experimental Biology. When deprived of the “odor plume” information, the study shows, sharks are unable to find the source of an odor.


To figure this out, researchers ran a stream of squid odor through a circulating water tank and noted a shark’s ability to find the source — with no eddies and plumes to track, the shark almost always failed. They then used the same setup, but added a brick behind the scent source, thereby jumbling up the flow of the squid smell and giving the shark more information to track it. Sure enough, the sharks fared much better in locating the "prey."


Researchers also numbed the lateral lines with a common antibiotic, producing a similarly disabling effect on the sharks' hunting abilities.

"The results are interesting for our understanding of animal navigation underwater and for the development of guidance of autonomous underwater vehicles,” Atma said.

© 2007 LiveScience.com. All rights reserved.


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## Sea2aeS

barty, are you sure that insulating and reducing the amount of metal exposed increases the number if bites, cuz sharkfest is next week and any advantage I can get ill take. PM my with the details. I got a week to get ready & make rigs. 
I got the biter bug deep after last night. Its not soo much what you catch as much as it is getting hooked up with some serious pullage, cuz that was effin fun last night. I got to see just how far a 1508 all* will flex with an assload of drag. goddamn that was some serious fun, large ray or not it was pullage


----------



## rattler

just to clear up my earlier post...I spent 15 years working with plastics...most start out the same until you add things to give you the properties you want...fishing line is a great example ie:soft, abraision resistant, floro, etc...weed wacker line is made for the job it does...I am suprised salt doesn't make it brittle...Now I have to look into it...might save me some money...this needs to go into the bible...great thread...


----------



## Sea2aeS

So, in all essence. A shark is more likely to eat a live bluefish with ("metal" a hook) in it than a dead one putting off scent sitting on the bottom due to sensing the frequencies and getting a general idea of location and what it is? Sounds too complicated but in a nutshell I think I get it


----------



## barty b

First off,rattler, not callin ya on it, Just sayin that in our experience "QUALITY" weedeter line has stood up to some abuse. Look into it and test it for yourself,Ithink you'll be pleasently suprised.

S2S, Yes, Insulate your rigs. Try RR's rig, I'm building one right now. As for the live bait VS dead bait thing, All I can say is that I know Blacktips prefer live bait. Bulls will eat either and Most Tigers, I have heard, came on chunks of Jack or rays.
Go to home depot and get the Plasti-Dip SPRAY. Coat every metal part of your rig. Dont worry about the swivels getting fouled,they'll work fine. Just coat the hook and bite leader section.


----------



## tulisiak.2

Surf Fish said:


> Personally, I don't see why anybody would beach a 9, or 10, or 11 foot shark. Cut the damn line and let it live, not to mention that it's probably just a tiny bit on the dangerous side to drag an 11 foot long hammer head up onto the beach.


I agree with surf fish, btu maybe I am missing something. I dont understand why you would bring such a large shark onto the beach. Post catch mortality skyrockets and that is assuming you are even going to try to make an attempt to return it to the water. Marine apex predators are having enough problems these days and dont need a bunch of attention needy surf fishing individuals to make their problems worse. Please correct me if i am wrong about this statement. if i am then ignore it, but unless your eating all 8-12' of those sharks whats the point of beaching um??


----------



## jettypark28

*I might be*

wrong....but from my understanding "Sharks" also follow elec pulses....and that is something that everything put outs....That the reason they will mouth a boat motor, it isnt because they are crazy, its the elec pulse that the motor put out...it confuses them and they mouth it to see if it is something to eat....The same way they do with a person (depending on the type of shark) White shark will mouth a person because of the shape and the pulse we put out. But once he has bitten into us, he notice that we arent his food prey, and drop the person....But that "Mouthing" sometime will take a leg off.....if sharks decided tomorrow that we were on their food list....Not one of us would be able to go into the ocean and cast a pole....damn i got off track...  its the :beer: :beer: and i wanted to belong i also be tying the weedleader rigs, but i will post the problem later....i am also doing the same rig with 200 and 400lb mono....and it seem to come off the alot smoother and not tangle into itself like the weed line is doing....maybe my weedline is to thickopcorn: :fishing: Beaching large sharks, its a macho thing with most guys, i saw a picture where they beach "Jewfish" that must've weight over 400lb or more...on the beach they were shark fishing and got into the groupers....and they had them pretty far up to take the pictures....if you notice its alot of younger guys, that are doing this....oh there are some old guys, but those are the stupid ones that dont know any better....


----------



## Sea2aeS

ramble onopcorn: sing my song:beer: kep on ramblin


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## barty b

tulisiak.2 said:


> I agree with surf fish, btu maybe I am missing something. I dont understand why you would bring such a large shark onto the beach. Post catch mortality skyrockets and that is assuming you are even going to try to make an attempt to return it to the water. Marine apex predators are having enough problems these days and dont need a bunch of attention needy surf fishing individuals to make their problems worse. Please correct me if i am wrong about this statement. if i am then ignore it, but unless your eating all 8-12' of those sharks whats the point of beaching um??


Some guys do some guys don't . A lot of "Experienced" sharkers will bring the fish into shallow water,get a tail rope on it and cut it loose,It never hits the beach. The use of CIRCLE HOOKS also helps with a live release. Like Jetty said, It's mostly a macho thing, BUT WERE MEN,at least some of us, I personally take every precaution right down to how long the fish is out of water,so a live release can be easily facilitated. This is exactly where EXPERIENCE and a GOOD CREW come into play. Your crew is KEY to the success of not only landing,but RELEASING THE FISH ALIVE. Also the use of heavy tackle so as not to wear the fish out unnessecarily. It's like watching guys from boats fight bull Reds with 15 lb tackle and then say "I released it" Well sure ya did,wore out as hell, and right into the jaws of the sharks that are following the same pogy pods the Reds are...dont get me started.


----------



## jettypark28

*Lol*

preach it!!!! and people ask me why i use heavy gear..........well dud...:--| :--| but the laws are change because too many fish are dying...well stop fighting them on 10lb line and chasing all over the place with a boat  i better stop right now:beer: :beer:


----------



## Surf Fish

tulisiak.2 said:


> I agree with surf fish, btu maybe I am missing something. I dont understand why you would bring such a large shark onto the beach. Post catch mortality skyrockets and that is assuming you are even going to try to make an attempt to return it to the water. Marine apex predators are having enough problems these days and dont need a bunch of attention needy surf fishing individuals to make their problems worse. Please correct me if i am wrong about this statement. if i am then ignore it, but unless your eating all 8-12' of those sharks whats the point of beaching um??


You hit the nail right on the head I think. 

I don't think you should beach large sharks; and I don't think you should kill fish unless you intend to eat them or use them for bait. When I do kill fish to eat, the left over parts get recycled for crab, minnow, or fishing bait. 

I would guess that most large sharks we see in the pictures, after being tail roped, dragged up the beach, sat on and photographed, and then dragged back into the water don't survive. 

In Florida, the Health Department advises people not to eat ANY shark over 43" long, so I don't imagine many big ones get eaten.

For me, the "fun factor" in fishing leaves when the fish reaches a certain size; for example, a 56" red fish would be fun, but an 11' foot long shark would be no fun at all. 

Shark fishing is also very new to me; up until recently, I have never intentionally tried to catch a shark, and any I accidentally caught were considered a pain in the a$$ and were returned to the water.

The Georgia Commander dreamed up Shark Fest, so we went fishing for sharks (but I have a secret I'll tell you about in a minute). It's fun to get together with your friends and go fishing; so getting a gang of people together to spend the night fishing on the beach was a lot of fun, I think everybody that went enjoyed it.

We didn't catch anything over five feet, and everything we did catch was returned to the ocean in healthy condition, even after being beached, so hopefully we didn't kill any sharks. 

Matter of fact, we did some dental surgery on one shark that had some old hooks in his mouth so we probably put him back in better condition than he was when we caught him.

Here's my secret, I think Barty and RR already went to bed, so it's OK to spill the beans. I learned that if you want to catch a BIG shark, you need to use a BIG bait, and you need to get that BIG bait out to where the BIG sharks are (kayak). 

Since I don't want to catch BIG sharks (anything over 4 or 5 feet is too big for me), I don't use BIG baits; I use a 7/0 circle hook and the same sized chunk of bait I'd use for big red fish. I realize that doesn't completely eliminate the chance of hooking an 11' hammer head, but it greatly reduces the chance, and couple that with weedeater line (no wire) and light line/shock leader, I think I'm doing everything I need to do to NOT catch anything big but I still get to go shark fishing with the guys and hopefully catch a couple little ones.

The spinner shark I hooked last week went happily spinning away with some weedeater line hanging out the side of his mouth, and it was more fun watching him spin that it would have been trying to land him, I'm sure. 

Anything 3 or 4 feet long can easily be returned to the water none the worse for wear, and I might even hook a nice red drum and let RR wind it in for me after I take a swan dive into the sand out of the lawn chair at 3 AM when the clicker goes off. 

I think sharks are looked at differently than other fish; they aren't fish, they are "Sea Monsters" that eat little kids at the beach, and it's very macho to kill a sea monster, so I guess that's why it happens. Like the big bull that was just caught in Florida; took 3 guys how many hours to land it, drag it up onto a sea wall, and let it die. Now they're going to cut out the jaw and push the remains back into the water. The Three Fishing Stooges. 

The amazing part about the newspaper article on the net about the shark was the readers comments; a few people said it was nuts to kill the big shark, but the majority of them thought it was way too kewl that The Three Macho Men slayed the nasty sea monster....


----------



## Railroader

tulisiak.2 said:


> I agree with surf fish, btu maybe I am missing something. I dont understand why you would bring such a large shark onto the beach. Post catch mortality skyrockets and that is assuming you are even going to try to make an attempt to return it to the water. Marine apex predators are having enough problems these days and dont need a bunch of attention needy surf fishing individuals to make their problems worse. Please correct me if i am wrong about this statement. if i am then ignore it, but unless your eating all 8-12' of those sharks whats the point of beaching um??


I got no need for your attention, but it's kinda lke the rest of my crew has already said. We go to GREAT lengths, sometimes to far, to try and release nearly EVERYTHING we catch, shark or not...I don't have any desire to kill a big shark, or a little one for that matter. I DO however have the desire to catch and successfully release a biggun'. I'm also willing to put in the time, and learn the necessary steps to make it happen. 

If the R/C kept or killed every fish we caught, there'd be NOTHING left in saltwater between Tybee Island and Daytona Beach...


----------



## Mark G

*cool thread*

great info on here, one thing I know i'd like to see, is if any of the crew has the ability it would be cool to see a demonstration of a rig being put together via a video camera, a short demonstration that could be put up on you tube might be helpful. The pictures help and yeah I have worked with pulley rigs of the breakaway variety. A video demo might make it a bit clearer to those who haven't used pulley rigs. Anyone game?

Thanks for a great thread fellas !!

Oh , BTW I am thinking castable rigs here, obviously yaking baits out can employ rigs w/o the casting consideration- so showing the build of the rig and a cast of it would be way cool- if someone has the time to spare and doesn't mind talking us threw the process on camera


----------



## Railroader

Well, I'm all out of "makings" at the moment, but if we can get Surf Fish to remember his video camera on the 19th, we'll get some video of my rig, step by step, and in actual use... 

As of now, my new rig is untested in water, so it may not be worth a tinker's damn, but I can see or imagine no reason why it won't work.

We shall see...


----------



## barty b

I built one last night and albeit ugly as hell, It just might work well.
I will let our "technical advisor" Surf Fish, Film me building one .and we will do a little tutorial video of the trip. Since Jim is not interested in catching a shark worth a chit, He can do the filming.


----------



## Surf Fish

barty b said:


> Since Jim is not interested in catching a shark worth a chit, He can do the filming.


Sharks are like women. After they've reached a certain size, they aren't worth catching anymore....


----------



## Railroader

This may or may not clear things up a bit for those interested...

Imagine the flower hook on the porch is the rod tip, you're throwing the excess leader coiled and hooked at the top, with one strand hanging...










A closer look at the clip-down, or clip-UP in this case...










The business end...The weight will slide about 6-7 feet on pick-up, before any resistance. Should give a little time for the fish to decide for sure to eat...Plus, the bait is close to the weight.










Clear as mud, now, right???...


----------



## Surf Fish

*Clear as mud, now, right???...*

It would seem to me that it will have the same problem as the average fish finder rig. 

The bait will be much less aerodynamic than the sinker; this will cause the sinker to preceed the bait and slide up the line during deployment.


----------



## Railroader

Well, this does not seem to be the case while watching the rig fly with the lacrosse ball on the bottom...And most of the benefit of the bait and sinker being close together is realized during the actual loading and release of the payload.

Once it's away, it don't really matter what it does, as long as it's making 80 yards or so, which it is.


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## barty b

Jim,
It doesn't work like that, The sinker leads the rig,The bait is folded back behind the sinker in flight causing a bend in the leader that prevents the sinker from riding up the line. This is not meant to be a long distance rig. Rob was getting great distance with it in the trial phase,but we dont really NEED it to go more than 80 yards for the places we shark fish. It will do that easily. I mean hell, How aerodynamic can a chunk of stingray or slab of bait fish be any way?


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## Mark G

*Clip Up Vs Clip Down*

Not sure of the advantage on a clip up vs clip down, but thought I'd post this for comparison.

I use one of the breakaway sinkers with integrated clip and cap for this purpose as pictured. 

I crimp a hook leaving a big enough loop of the line to fit in the clip. I'm using 100lb mono here , but could substitute out for the weedeater line.



Here's how it looks when redied for casting- minus the actual bait









This keeps the bait literally pinned behind the sinker and should allow for max distance- tho as Barty mentioned- ya ain't casting a big slab of meat all that far anyway.


----------



## trowpa

I understand how they are set up to cast - what I'm not sure I can understand is the deployment - how can you be sure the rig comes apart when it its the water? Looks like you'd be "chucking and hoping" 

Can someone explain it simply enough for me to understand and have enough confidence of proper deployment for using?

Tnx


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## barty b

The key to deployment is to have the "clip" open enough,and the "loop" open enough, so that when it hits it gets knocked off. Rob reported a 99% deployment rate during the testing phase. It's nothing to worry about as long as the "clip" hook is bent just enough to hook the loop. A lot of times it will release "in flight"


----------



## Lip Ripper

trowpa said:


> I understand how they are set up to cast - what I'm not sure I can understand is the deployment - how can you be sure the rig comes apart when it its the water? Looks like you'd be "chucking and hoping"
> 
> Can someone explain it simply enough for me to understand and have enough confidence of proper deployment for using?
> 
> Tnx


when the sinker hits the water, the cone(wich slides up and down) is forced up and pushes the loop off. kinda hard to explain.


----------



## Lip Ripper

oops, i thought you were talking about the breakaway sinker.


----------



## Surf Fish

trowpa said:


> I understand how they are set up to cast - what I'm not sure I can understand is the deployment - how can you be sure the rig comes apart when it its the water? Looks like you'd be "chucking and hoping"
> 
> Can someone explain it simply enough for me to understand and have enough confidence of proper deployment for using?
> 
> Tnx


100% correct. Chuck and Hope. In fishing, as in life, there are no guarantees. 

If it doesn't come apart, you'll find that out when you wind it back in. I was fishing the other day with some home made clip down pulley rigs; the rate for correct deployment was about 75%. 

You can increase your chances by using Breakaway hardware, like the sinker with the yellow top pictured above, but at $4 a pop, it's not much fun losing them, and a clip on the sinker wouldn't do much good for this particular type of rig. 

Breakaway also makes plastic release clips, which seem to be pretty reliable, but you really need to be into beads and crimps if you want to use them.

Here's a movie of how they work:

http://www.nickaway.com/h2is1a.wmv


----------



## Mark G

*Agree with SF*

I don't use the breakaway for normal drum or striper fishing. Too mcuh cost if you lose a rig and really the standard fish finder works with less hassle most of the time.

Migh build a couple of rigs for sharks tho, just to try out.


----------



## Jesse Lockowitz

i built one of these today , and threw it.

im not gonna hide the way i feel about it. and this is ONLY MY OPINION OF IT.

now, this test was done on the pier, while waitin for a king to hit hte pinrig lol.


I tested this rig RR has concocted , and the Subourban "BIG ASS PULLEY" Rig. both with a head from about a 1lb bluefish.


First thoughs, i did not like having to coil/loop stuff up.


threw ok, but felt just like a drum fish finder rig with a longer leader, and bulky.


LOVE the pulley rig. everything stays in place, and does not helicoptor like a fish finder, as it is stationary til it hits the water. no coiling, etc etc.


In my opinion, which isnt saying much, i would rather use the pully.


hey, not bashin ya railroader, it was just what i liked.


i just personally dont see how coiling stuff is easier then just hookin the baited hook onto the little cut hook below the swivel..



to each his own i suppose 


Jesse


----------



## barty b

My ONLY complaint with the pulley rig is that the lead needs to be heavier than the bait for the rig to work properly, Which in my case ain't always so. Alot of times on the beach I can hold with 6oz...A whole whiting of 10" is heavier than that. I dont want to have to increase the lead to make my rig work. As Always....To Each His Own! :beer: 

Ya know, A lot of times I think we spend WAAAAAY too much time arguing the little things. All the afore mentioned rigs will put fish on the beach, So who gives a F.....
SHUT UP AND FISH!!!!!!!!!!!! :fishing:


----------



## Sea2aeS

dood barty I have to disagree on the weight on pulley rigs having to be heavier due to experiencing firsthand. I put a whole 14 inch mullet on mine, and a 10oz pyramid, and proceeded to lob that bastard out there without it separating till it was supposed to. 

Its all due in part to 400lb mono is some pretty stiff stuff man, and where the swivel connects to your running line I discovered a trick to make it happen with smaller lead. 
when you secure the breakaway clip on the weight end to the hook shank, take the mono on the sinker side, and pull down above the weight towards the swivel and it tensions that stiff ass mono to give slight pull on the lighter weight side, which is enough to keep it secure on cast so as you dont jerk it around. if your smooth with the cast and do it right, it will work fine with a smaller sinker, and that was my main concern. I had to experiment to see for myself otherwise I had my doubts.


----------



## Surf Fish

Never mind pully rigs, it's time we started thinking outside the tackle box. Fishing is SO much easier when you can take the truck along...



















I just got back from the beach. We can now deploy a 2' frozen lady fish and an 8 oz sinker about 250 yards, with the push of a button. 

Bad news is we gotta use a spinning reel, but when the Commander comes down next week we'll try a 9/0 and some leather gloves.

I'm not sure what the best trajectory angle is yet, and I need to run over to Walmart and see if they have a bigger compressor that will still work with the inverter. We're also gonna need some dry ice to keep the bait hard, gets messy when it starts to thaw out....


----------



## trowpa

Ok - going to redo some rigs for this season based on info here. Gonna trash the hardwire and replace with either 400lb mono or weedeater as well.

Any recommendations on model and size circles? I'm looking at the mustads 39960D or 39950BL

But - have no clue what size. Any specifics that work well for castable-sized baits?


----------



## Surf Fish

.065 blue Weed Eater line from Walmart, Penn size 1.6, 150-200 lb test double crimps, and Gamakatsu 7/0 Octopus Circle hooks work for me...


----------



## trowpa

Surf Fish said:


> .065 blue Weed Eater line from Walmart, Penn size 1.6, 150-200 lb test double crimps, and Gamakatsu 7/0 Octopus Circle hooks work for me...


Gami 7/0 Octopus Circles? are you serious? I use Gami 8/0 for stripers!

You must use pretty small chunks...maybe my baits are too big!?!?


----------



## Sea2aeS

hooks = owner super mutu 12/0 circles. 
line = momoi 400lb smoke blue
crimps = 2.2 mm double sleves
swivels = atleast 250lb test size.


----------



## Surf Fish

trowpa said:


> Gami 7/0 Octopus Circles? are you serious? I use Gami 8/0 for stripers!
> 
> You must use pretty small chunks...maybe my baits are too big!?!?


Yes, I'm serious. Biggest bait I use is a chunk about the size of pack of cigarettes, but I'm probably not a good measurement tool for shark bait sizes. Other people use 8 lb fish or whole sting rays.

For red drum I use a 5/0, but they don't get very big down here, usually under 50". We don't have any stripers, least not around here.


----------



## Sea2aeS

man, for pulley rigs a 6-12 inch fresh bluefish, spanish mackeral head, chunk of false albie, bunker, bunker head, small bluefish head or chunk of blue the size of a cigg pack, whole spot, etc to give you an idea of likesize baits using pulley rigs. 

my preference would be a spanish mackeral head, then a small bluefish, then a fresh bunker.


----------



## Railroader

MY GOD!!!

Look what I have created ....I had no idea that this thread was gonna take on such a LIFE!!! I just wanted to post some pics of a rig I came up with... 

Here's to page six...:beer: 

My mind's made up, until proven otherwise by a fish biting a rig off, between the hook and sinker... 

Y'all keep runnin' with it, I'm enjoying this.... thoroughly...


----------



## barty b

trowpa said:


> Ok - going to redo some rigs for this season based on info here. Gonna trash the hardwire and replace with either 400lb mono or weedeater as well.
> 
> Any recommendations on model and size circles? I'm looking at the mustads 39960D or 39950BL
> 
> But - have no clue what size. Any specifics that work well for castable-sized baits?




You guys are all WAAY off, We know Jim likes to catch the little sharks so the 7 or 8/0's are fine for that..Rob runs like 10-12/0's I think. Me, I dont go smaller than 16/0 Mustad, I like 20's too. But you gotta spread the gap at least a 1/4" on them so you get better hook exposure. A circle hook won't work unless the gap is EXPOSED.


JIM, Is that cannon really functional?? Steve Austin here in JAX has the origional "Bait Cannon"...He gets about 300 yards out of it with a frozed load. I have seen it empty his Daiwa Basia. That damn thing is too cool.


----------



## barty b

Railroader said:


> MY GOD!!!
> 
> Look what I have created ....I had no idea that this thread was gonna take on such a LIFE!!! I just wanted to post some pics of a rig I came up with...
> 
> Here's to page six...:beer:
> 
> My mind's made up, until proven otherwise by a fish biting a rig off, between the hook and sinker...
> 
> Y'all keep runnin' with it, I'm enjoying this.... thoroughly...




It's not your fault Rob...Sand Flea Needs to give us a SHARK FORUM!!!  PLEEEEEZE Sand Flea,Can we have one,PLEASE,PLEASE,PLEASE???
C'mon man, This thread will go on forever if ya dont.


----------



## jettypark28

*I stand*

correct on my idea for making a section on certain "GameFish" ...And "Sharks" being able to be target, just about anywhere. There really is no telling how large it can get, not only sharing info on leaders. (Like is being done with this threads) but bait,reels,poles,tackles....it would take a life of it own, left uncheck on a open fourm section...Sharks are just becoming the new fab, for all fisherman....And new people could also learn, from the older "Sharker" on releasing the shark, is alot better then killing it.....LOL...who would have thought that "Sharks" would ever have gain such a following.....


----------



## trowpa

dunno about other parts of the country, but the reason I got into sharking is because there just isn't anything else in the surf during the summer over 15 inches or so.

Sharking is my way of getting good pullage over the summer.


----------



## Railroader

trowpa said:


> dunno about other parts of the country, but the reason I got into sharking is because there just isn't anything else in the surf during the summer over 15 inches or so.
> 
> Sharking is my way of getting good pullage over the summer.


That's about the size of it down South...Sharkin' in the surf, Kings and such off the piers, and Flounder...that's about it until fall.

But ain't that ENOUGH?


----------



## Railroader

I made one more rig, this time with the hook snelled with .080 mono. 14/0 Eagle Claw Sea Circle, with the gap opened a little.

You gotta put the hook in a vise, and pull the snell down with pliers from the tag end.

Just a bit of useless triva, I hung the hook in a bicycle hook in the ceiling in my shop, and lifted myself off the floor, hanging on this rig....


----------



## bigphil

I tried the loop style yesterday. Obviously I had something wrong because I never even casted it. I've had problems with not having heavy enough bait with the pulley rig, but I've found if you can balance weight and bait enough to cast it seperates as its coming down to the water.

Learned a little bit about clip ups and clip down rigs.

I'm going to have to get one of those rubbers for my fingers to cast 6 and bait. That dang sheepshead head was heavy.

Jim, you gave me an idea. I'm gonna make a catapult thingy to put in the bed of the truck to launch my steering wheel size ray and a 32oz spider weight. Gonna get some mags for the 9/0.


----------



## bigphil

page 6.........here we come.

:spam: 

bench vise? Man, teeth and fingers.









ETA: Glad I had my shark rig to get this guy in. Had to rank up there with the strangest of my catches.


----------



## barty b

*Official real world test*

I took the "hanging rig" out this morning for a test. Everything seemed to work fine, Castability was excellent hitting upwards of 75 yards with 5oz and a whole 8" mullet. Deployment was 100% out of 6 casts. The rig held up to three 3' Sharpies. The rod was "cut down" 1569 and the reel was a magged 545 full of 30# Big Game and 80# shock.


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## Sea2aeS

the problem with having species specific forums is youll have to have a bunch of em. ones for drum, sharks, stripers, trout, etc and that eliminates the need for the others as posts get spread out more and more. a good idea to an extent, but when you ask for an inch, a mile was the real intent.


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## Paul McDonald

I usually use Momoi or Triplefish mono leader materal but after reading this thread and talking to Phil I decided to make a weedeater leader. I had some red .095" 2.4mm weedeater line out in my shed. I decided to give it a go. 

This is how I rig the business end of my mono leaders. I thread two sleeves on the mono. I put an offshore loop (it may be called a flemish eye) on the eye of the hook and leave a long tag end. I crimp the line near the loop knot. I wrap the 12" or so tag end then crimp it with the other sleeve. It helps with biteoffs because it is double thickness in the area where it is most likely to be bitten. 
Here is a pic of what I am talking about.


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## Mark G

Sea2aeS said:


> the problem with having species specific forums is youll have to have a bunch of em. ones for drum, sharks, stripers, trout, etc and that eliminates the need for the others as posts get spread out more and more. a good idea to an extent, but when you ask for an inch, a mile was the real intent.


Not only the problem of species specific, the problem of location specific-no doubt guys use the technique developed for their specific locales.

(We all know how bent out of shape the "point" guys get when the Jersey boys start talking about using braid.)


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## bigphil

Yeah, I'm going to make a few like that Paul. that upper crimp will be the weight stop.


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## jettypark28

*Shark*

was the only one i was really talking about, everything else, would just fall in their own region....The reason i am only talking about sharks...
1) is one of the only "Game fish" that can be target anywhere!!! down here in central fla, we hear you guys talking about "Stripers","Blackfish" but we don't catch them, just like you hear us talking about "Snook" and "Tarpons" two great fighting game fish...But you guys up north would never face them, unless you went to a area that had them. We might have stripers and blues in some places here in fla...But never the size that you guys catch them up north...But "Sharks" are everywhere, and you can fish for them from just about any shore line...And fishing for "Sharks" really isnt like fishing for any other gamefish....we are talking about a fish, that if you make a mistake with him....Can really put a hurting on you....and when you talk about hooking up to a "Large" one, well that just a fish in another class by himself....You will have to agree "Sharks" have a mystery about them, that make us want to fish for them...The good part is that people are learning more about them, and release them without hurting them. And all you have to do is look at this thread, it will keep going, with people adding more and more. Anyone anywhere can relate to fishing for sharks, if they wish too....and seeing that we are a forum that has so many region....This one game fish, should have his own section....unless there are other "Gamefish" that can get people going like a "Shark" does....and can be caught anywhere, like a "Shark" can....and size only matter with what bait and gear you are using...oh well...one quick question...when you are opening the gap on your circle hooks, how do you decide, that you have open it enough...I have 20/0 circle hooks, how big of a gap would you open it?? , and i am planning are making the same rigs, you guys have share with us....thanks again...:fishing:


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## Railroader

bigphil said:


> Yeah, I'm going to make a few like that Paul. that upper crimp will be the weight stop.


Exactamundo!!! ...

I LIKE that idea, Paul, think I'll give it a go, too.


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## Paul McDonald

Railroader said:


> Exactamundo!!! ...
> 
> I LIKE that idea, Paul, think I'll give it a go, too.


I am glad I could show y'all that trick. Someone showed me how to rig mono that way and I thought that I would pass it along to others.


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## barty b

I did that with some 90lb sevenstrand wire, I took 3 12" pieces and braided them together and crimped as normal. MUCH harder to cut even with cutters, also still very thin dia. 

BTW,Paul, that's the same weed line I have, Thats some good stuff.
NOt sure if somewhere within the 6 pages of this thread if anybody ever mentoined to ONLY use the ROUND weed line.


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## bstarling

*Very interesting*

This has been fun. I couldn't participate much since my high speed cable crapped out. Back for now, hope it stays. 

I've used that pulley rig since I saw it posted by Suburbon years ago. I've found it to be about as good as they get for casting. The trick is to put the clip down on the hook or sinker side depending on how much weight you are casting. If the bait is heavier than the sinker then the sinker usually works better hooked onto the bait. Thing is that casting a pound of bait and a half pound of sinker is just about over the edge for some of us old guys. It is also over the edge for a lot of rods unless you want a nice new three piece one. All that said I thought I'd post a couple of photo's I took last week at Carolina Beach, NC. Got no strikes, but that's the nature of fishing.

Bill
Here's a bait that was about the same or just a little less than the 8 oz sinker.
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/wbstarling/Tinkering/LadyHead.jpg
This one is ready for deployment. 
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/wbstarling/Tinkering/RiggedandReady.jpg"

This one is sitting and waiting. My casting rig of choice is a 4/0 HLW with 30 lb running line and a 100 lb mono casting line with the old weed eater 0.80" from Big Lots at 69 cents for an ass load of it. 

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/wbstarling/Tinkering/Deployed.jpg

Bill:fishing:


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## Paul McDonald

barty b said:


> I did that with some 90lb sevenstrand wire, I took 3 12" pieces and braided them together and crimped as normal. MUCH harder to cut even with cutters, also still very thin dia.
> 
> BTW,Paul, that's the same weed line I have, Thats some good stuff.
> NOt sure if somewhere within the 6 pages of this thread if anybody ever mentoined to ONLY use the ROUND weed line.


Another thing is if you use mono/weedeater line only use circle hooks. Use cable with j hooks.


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## bstarling

*Photos didn't stick*

Here are the photo's I hope:

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/wbstarling/Tinkering/LadyHead.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/wbstarling/Tinkering/RiggedandReady.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/wbstarling/Tinkering/Deployed.jpg

Bill


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## barty b

Paul McDonald said:


> Another thing is if you use mono/weedeater line only use circle hooks. Use cable with j hooks.


I only use circles...Period.


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## barty b

bstarling said:


> Here are the photo's I hope:
> 
> http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/wbstarling/Tinkering/LadyHead.jpg
> 
> http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/wbstarling/Tinkering/RiggedandReady.jpg
> 
> http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/wbstarling/Tinkering/Deployed.jpg
> 
> Bill












AH HA..The clip is on the hook. I have never seen it done that way...How is your successful release ratio?


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## bstarling

barty b said:


> AH HA..The clip is on the hook. I have never seen it done that way...How is your successful release ratio?



100% so far. I've never had the thing to stay put, I have had it to cut out early a couple of times. That is seldom though. You might notice that the W.E. stuff can be tied, just pull hell out of it to tighten it and don't expect a small knot.

OBTW, thanks for helping out with the posting, for some reason I could not get the photo links to open. I may have to relook at what I'm doing.

Bill:fishing:


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## barty b

Bill, Look at this thread
http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40372


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## bstarling

barty b said:


> Bill, Look at this thread
> http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40372



Thanks Barty


Bill


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## trowpa

barty b said:


> You guys are all WAAY off, We know Jim likes to catch the little sharks so the 7 or 8/0's are fine for that..Rob runs like 10-12/0's I think. Me, I dont go smaller than 16/0 Mustad, I like 20's too. But you gotta spread the gap at least a 1/4" on them so you get better hook exposure. A circle hook won't work unless the gap is EXPOSED.


problem is i have to order these online (no local stores carry them and I want to make the rigs BEFORE getting to the beach). I know that a 12/0 in one hook is completely different than a 12/0 in another hook...

Can you give specific model numbers w/ the sizes (i.e. mustad 39960D or Owner Super Muto 10/0) etc

For stripers I use 8/0 Gamis up through 10/0 owner SSWs - I was thinking I should up the size 1 or 2 notches for sharks? Or is this not necessary?

THanks


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## bigphil

Yeah, thats the question. We need a comparison chart with pics. If you look at the pic of the hook I snelled on the last page. It's a 15/0 mustad circle. Dont think I opened the gap on it yet, and if I did it wasnt much. A 15/0 circle mustad is the same bottom width as a 12/0 mustad shaunnessy (sp).


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## trowpa

15/0 mustad - but what model? I know for instance a 12/0 mustad demon circle is huge (bunker head, big striper hook) but a 12/0 mustad 39960 tuna circle is tiny (smaller than my owner 9/0s)

very confusing....


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## jettypark28

*I open*

my 20/0 circle 1/4 and i think i might open it some more.....I would think you would want to stay with 16/0 to 20/0 circle hooks for sharks....seeing that even a little one has a huge mouth, the bigger the hook the bigger the gap, wouldnt this lead to a quicker and cleaner hookup on the shark??? for large circle hooks, i just go to ebay...cheaper then any store. And don't forget that you might be cutting the leader most of the time. Why?? well because its faster and safe. And less stress put on the sharks....So spending $$$$ on a brand name hook, that you will end up cutting off....might not be good thing for your pocket....But if you have deep pockets, then carry on...:fishing:


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## trowpa

jettypark28 said:


> ....So spending $$$$ on a brand name hook, that you will end up cutting off....might not be good thing for your pocket....But if you have deep pockets, then carry on...:fishing:



Its not about $$$$ for brand name hooks - its about getting the right size. I've got 9/0 circles in some brands that are bigger than 12/0's in other brands. 
There are also 12/0 in some brands that are bigger than 16/0 in others.


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## jettypark28

*Some*

fishing Catalog show the hooks in "Actual size", i have two catalog that have Actual size...But i still order from ebay....I just ask the seller to tell me the size of the hook...The largest hook most stores have will be the "Mustad 16/0 circle hook" some stores will do special order request. if you are looking for one brand, i don't know why companys hooks are just one size 12/0 being 12/0 in all brands....But i not going to overthink, so i just go and ask before i order. And that way i know what i am getting....:fishing:


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