# ultimate distance spinning reel



## terpfan (May 30, 2002)

(for fishing with drag) i'm getting two spinning reels. (regardless of price) my two finalist is shimano aero technium xt10000 and daiwa surf basia QD45II. (previous owed qd45(older model))
i was just ordering the shimano from england, but there was problem with credit card transaction. anyway, any suggestions for a better distance spinning reels???


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## TunaFish (Aug 16, 2001)

*Word of advice:*

I got this from Sarge. While back, I was preparing to order my Shimano Power Aero from England. He pointed me a link to a seller in Japan for the same reel. With the currency exchange rate, I saved about $150.00 by ordering mine from the latter. Not only that, it didn't take long for them to ship it.


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## darrel (Feb 25, 2005)

So you ruled out the Penn Surfmaster 750 from England ? They are pretty light weight. I'm not sure of the bail spring but I'm thinking about adding the reel for distance casting.


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## terpfan (May 30, 2002)

TunaFish said:


> I got this from Sarge. While back, I was preparing to order my Shimano Power Aero from England. He pointed me a link to a seller in Japan for the same reel. With the currency exchange rate, I saved about $150.00 by ordering mine from the latter. Not only that, it didn't take long for them to ship it.


yes i know, but aero techium is only sold on europe, i believe. i found one website that sell it for less than 400, but with shipping it is 450. the qd45 is around 350 from japan. (i originally payed almost 500 for the original qd45) and it was sarge that pointed me to the particular japanese dealer.


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## EugeneChoe (Aug 11, 2006)

? any pics, links?


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

terpfan said:


> . . . my two finalist is shimano aero technium xt10000 and daiwa surf basia QD45II.


First question; are you going to be using mono or braid as your running line? 

The Shimano has an *ENOURMOUS* spool diameter which is designed for mono. The Basia's spool is much smaller in diameter and is designed for and takes advantage of braid's qualities, (limpness - sm. diameter). Combined with a zoned action rod rung with lowrider guides it is an incredible system.

The Technium will require a rod rung with a large gatherer guide (usually a 75 mm wire Perfection).


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## terpfan (May 30, 2002)

Sgt_Slough said:


> First question; are you going to be using mono or braid as your running line?
> .


i exclusively use braid line. i'm familiar with surf basia qd 45, but i'm not sure the difference between the older model and the new one. do you think surf basia is superior to shimano if you use braid line???


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

*dumb question*

Can somone explain to me the difference (real world fishing) between a super duper $500 reel, and a $130 (Daiwa) distance reel. I'm not into casting competitions, but I could see why you may want super high end stuff then. But for the average surf fisherman (not saying your average)is it really worth the extra money?


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## terpfan (May 30, 2002)

kmw, it is just personal preference. my passion is fishing, and everytime i buy rod or reel that is not highend, i'll either sell it or never use it again. some person might think it's crazy to spend $500 on a reel, but the same person might spend over $1000 on the rims for their cars.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

terpfan said:


> do you think surf basia is superior to shimano if you use braid line???


Without a doubt. For braid you want as small a diameter as possible. With mono, a large diameter spool helps minimize line memory and you get more line coming off the reel for a given number of wraps. Example; if you can get a 200 yard cast with mono with only 500 wraps (loops coming off) that's better than a 180 yard cast with 800 wraps . . . the big distance robber is friction at the lip of the spool.

With braid there is inherently less friction and distance is maximized by throttling down the loops very quickly. I have found that small diameter (but long) spools, thin line (.009" - .011" max) and lowrider guides are the hot ticket.

I have two Shimano Power Aeros that cast exceptionally well, I would say that I can not tell any difference between them and the Basia. They retail for less than half the cost of the Basia.



kmw21230 said:


> Can somone explain to me the difference (real world fishing) between a super duper $500 reel, and a $130 (Daiwa) distance reel. I'm not into casting competitions, but I could see why you may want super high end stuff then. But for the average surf fisherman (not saying your average)is it really worth the extra money?


They aren't worth the extra money for the average surf fisherman because they are not intended for the average surf fisherman.

I bought the Basia for two reasons, casting performance and weight. I fish many tournaments a year and casting distance is often the thing that puts inches on the board. The weight is a concern because of my back; the team I fish for are hard-core and very rarely spike the rod so it is repeatedly cast and held for the 6 hours these tournaments last. 

I have fished XA and ZA Emblems on factory built rods . . . I wanted a set-up that could reliably and consistently place baits in excess of 500 feet from the beach and be able to be fished without needing physical therapy afterward. My 13ft for 6oz set-up weighs just under 32 ounces, rod, reel and line.

The extra cost of these high-end reels gets you small specific details that mass produced reels (intended to be used by the masses) don't offer (or can't @ MSRP). 

The use of exotic metal alloys for weight savings and strength I would deem primary followed by close tolerances in the gearing, sealing from water, more and better bearings, more machined parts etc, basically, it boils down to extreme performance intended for a very limited demographic that demands it (and is willing to pay for it). Look at any of the reels deemed high-end; these extreme casters from Daiwa and Shimano, their extreme jiggers, the Saltigas and Stellas, how about Van Staals and the new ZeeBass? 

Again, these reels are not intended for the "average" guy.

These reels (and the Basia especially) are not user friendly; if you do not already have good line mending habits ingrained they can be frustrating to use. For instance, all these reels have a manual bail. Most fishermen would look at that as an oversight or mistake but these reels are meant to be casted very hard creating high inertial forces that cause automatic closing bails to trip and . . . snap, there goes your lure or rig. 

The Emblem series are fine reels but they are a compromise for meeting the needs of the braid and mono caster. Their diameter of 3 inches is really not optimal for either. It's not big enough for mono and too big for braid (in theory) I know I had trouble with the braid wrapping guides when powercasting factory spinning rods and Emblem reels and 20lb braid. The larger coils thrown by the 3in spool and the big guides are not the optimal set-up for powercasting where more tip whip is created and rod recovery is delayed. A rod shaking violently just after release and large loops of braid trying to follow from one guide to the next is why guide wraps happen.

For the "average guy" I think Emblems and Tica Dolphins are on the edge of extreme  , there are _plenty_ of guys who consider an old Penn 704 Greenie on a Lamiglass 10' fiberglass rod with wire guides as "state of the art." Guess what, there's plenty of those guys who will fish me and you into red-faced embarrassment.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

*Very....*

True.. Plus I guess I would'nt have that TICA is you settled for average tackel...




terpfan said:


> kmw, it is just personal preference. my passion is fishing, and everytime i buy rod or reel that is not highend, i'll either sell it or never use it again. some person might think it's crazy to spend $500 on a reel, but the same person might spend over $1000 on the rims for their cars.


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## chump (Jul 18, 2005)

I casted Tuna's Aero this past weekend and I must admit, I want one now. My reels are the Shimano Spheros and Stradic. I love them both. They are dependable, smooth, and much cheaper of a pricetag. However, it is no Aero. Do I really need an Aero? No. Do I want one? Of course. 

I did get extra distance compared to my setup on Tuna's setup. However, is it worth the extra dough? That's a personal call.

As for me, I'm begging Tuna to find where he bought the Aero. (Esp. after I caught his rod at the last second when he stepped away  ) Great find, Sgt.!!!


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

*I see*

Sgt_Slough, you made some very good points.. PLease don't misunderstand me. I don't have an issue with anglers buying high end stuff. After all I'm taking myself into purchasing me first custom rod.. $$$  But, I noticed on this forum, their are a lot of guys always looking for the newest, and greatest. As if that's going to make them better casters... I'm no expert, but I'm willing to bet the average consumer to those High end Rod & Reel companies are the average weekend angler not the experts.... I gues it's like me choosing from a 600 Ninja (Bike) or a 1200 ninja, both will get me to work, but we all know why most guys get the biggest and baddest...

Now Sgt_Slough I have a question for you. I've been researching the Quantum Cabo, and I'm really impressed. I was told by a local tackle shop that it's one of the best built reels out there. Maybe second to the Van STaal... I would love your opinion...


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## seajay (Dec 18, 2005)

Sarge so you say that a larger diameter spool is better for mono? Say a Penn 704 or one of the newer reels with a larger Dia. and the enlongated spool?


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

kmw21230 said:


> I noticed on this forum, their are a lot of guys always looking for the newest, and greatest. As if that's going to make them better casters...


Well, there is a saying, it ain't the wand, it's the wizard . . . BUT, when two wizards are side by side the wizard with the better wand wins! It's like anything else, look at golf. Even the guy hacking trees down thinks, "if only I had that new Confragulator XP-9 driver I wouldn't hit so many in the rough."



kmw21230 said:


> I'm willing to bet the average consumer to those High end Rod & Reel companies are the average weekend angler not the experts....


The term "expert" leaves a lot of room for subjective interpretation; I think those in the market for those reels are at a minimum, serious enthusiasts. Whether that puts them into the category of "average weekend angler" or" expert weekend angler" is not for me to answer. Whatever makes one happy. Some of the equipment is not used to its potential, that's for sure. Take the Saltiga's and Stella's; those reels were designed and engineered to do a specific duty, high-speed deep jigging for tuna, trevally and amberjack. To watch some of those Japanese videos and see the abuse these reels are subjected to is simply amazing . . . 4500 and 5500 sized reels loaded with 100lb braid landing 180lb+ fish. 

Another way of looking at it is that owning and using the best gear available drives many people to try to improve . . . after all they can't blame their inadequacies on the equipment! On the other hand, some think owning and using the best is its own reward.



kmw21230 said:


> Now Sgt_Slough I have a question for you. I've been researching the Quantum Cabo, and I'm really impressed. I was told by a local tackle shop that it's one of the best built reels out there. Maybe second to the Van STaal... I would love your opinion..


I don't have personal experience with the reel but I have only heard good things about it. The guys that have them love them.



seajay21230 said:


> Sarge so you say that a larger diameter spool is better for mono? Say a Penn 704 or one of the newer reels with a larger Dia. and the enlongated spool?


Problem with the Penn's is that the spool is so short. On a good cast the line level is depleted so quickly the lip of the spool becomes an ever growing hurdle, that's what robs distance. The primary attribute on an engineered for distance spinning reel is a long spool. This allows much more line to be wrapped (and cast) without a sizable change in line level (as measured from the lip of the spool). The best casting mono reel available is probably the Alvey; surf sized reels have spools 6 inches in diameter.

I think the Daiwa Emblem series is the best bang for the buck especially for mono. The 35mm tall spool coupled with the 3 inch diameter is as close to perfection as one will get for a reasonable price and having domestic service available. That can be a big issue; the USA service departments don't support the foreign reels, not even for parts.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

*ok so..*

you're saying the daiwa emblem is best with mono? What if you use braided?


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

kmw21230 said:


> you're saying the daiwa emblem is best with mono? What if you use braided?


i'm just saying of the long spool reels out there, (Daiwa, Tica, Okuma) I think the Emblems have the best profile for mono because of their larger diameter. They work well also with braid, I have used them (and still do) with braid with good results. 

If I were to create a rule of thumb for _optimal_ profiles for distance then it would go: 

Long spool with larger diameter (3"+/-) -- Mono
Long spool with smaller diameter (2-1/2" +/-) -- Braid

As you can see, it's only a half-inch or so that I'm talking about . . . 










But seeing the spools side by side (Basia-L; Emblem-R) it is easy to visualize the line coming off and the difference in the size of the coils.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

*ok I'm starting to get it..*

so $300 bucks more get's you a half inch.. Which probably makes a huge difference. But, for the average guy (me) the Emblem is the best bang for the buck. Even better then the Tica SF Dolphin HS, Tica SE Dolphin?


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

I don't have any Tica's; guys on the team have them and like them. Only complaint I've heard over the years is that they tend to develop a wobble after a year or two of hard fishin.

The HS is nice, especially if you are going for Spanish or Fat Alberts (False Albacore). The high-end reels like the Basia and Tournament S's and the Power Aeros I have all have low retrieve ratios (like 3.9 / 1).


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

*Ok, One more question*

So if i was looking for a distance combo for $300 or under what would you recommend? That $300 would be the rod and reel.. Would you recomend a Breakaway Cannon?


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

i love my emblem...casts great...with 8& bait the finger does get raw...haven't tried the cannon but i'm thinking about it


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

*I've heard great things*

about the Cannon


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## Slammer (Nov 8, 2005)

Sarge,
I always love reading your posts,the most informative and objective I've seen.


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

*I got a Cannon*

And love it ..... I have it on my 12'OM XH with the Daiwa Emcast 6000 Plus ....... Just make sure you mount it all the way back so it's above the spool or it won't hold ....... I just used black electricial tape and it worked fine ....... made quite a few figure 8 wraps with it .......


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## seajay (Dec 18, 2005)

Sgt_Slough said:


> Well, there is a saying, it ain't the wand, it's the wizard . . . BUT, when two wizards are side by side the wizard with the better wand wins! It's like anything else, look at golf. Even the guy hacking trees down thinks, "if only I had that new Confragulator XP-9 driver I wouldn't hit so many in the rough."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Sarge that answers my question,will have to check into the Diawa,I throw conventionals,I have a rod already even have a Cannon needed the reel mainly for guest and the wife if I can get her to fish.


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## derekxec (Apr 26, 2006)

to me the high dollar reels are well worth the money they have more features are lighter and last....i have a few shimano trinidads and a van staal and love them all

then again i fish 6-7 days a week


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*Dawai Saltiga Surf 5500*

Titaninum and magnesium composite weighs less than a pound.. When ya put line on it ya double the weight.. Nice long tapered spool.. Any cost ya said well you'll need that cause she's 449.95.. IMHO a VS reel would not be a distance reel too deep of a spool.....JMHO... JAM


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## Cor (Oct 6, 2006)

Very interesting and informative thread. 

I recently joined this board because I saw the very knowledgeable and sensible comments on casting.

I enjoy reading this...thanks.


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## pfessor (Apr 8, 2006)

Sarge or Jam,
How does the Dawai Saltiga Surf 5500 compare with the Emblem Pro and the Basia?? Is it long and slim like the Basia or short and fat like the Emblem Pro?
Thanks,
pfessor


".....As you can see, it's only a half-inch or so that I'm talking about . . . 










But seeing the spools side by side (Basia-L; Emblem-R) it is easy to visualize the line coming off and the difference in the size of the coils.[/QUOTE]


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## dsurf (Aug 5, 2003)

*Distance Reels*

The Saltiga Surf has a 35mm forward tapered spool, the Basia a 45mm forward tapered spool while the Emblem Pro has a 35mm reverse tapered spool. I get consistently more distance with the forward tapered spools, especially with braid...........and avoid the reverse tapered ones. In comparing the 45mm vs the 35mm (forward tapered spools), I've been able to consistently get about 5-10 yards more distance with the 45mm variety. IMO, the reverse tapered large diameter spools cater more to mono and large gathering guides.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

So are you saying the Emblem is designed for mono?




pfessor said:


> Sarge or Jam,
> How does the Dawai Saltiga Surf 5500 compare with the Emblem Pro and the Basia?? Is it long and slim like the Basia or short and fat like the Emblem Pro?
> Thanks,
> pfessor
> ...


[/QUOTE]


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## ~FLYCAT~ (Apr 6, 2007)

*Wow*

Im amazed at the information in this post, truely informative.....but I got to know SGT is that Dog a new breed for consumption? That is the widest Dog I have ever seen !!


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## trowpa (Jan 26, 2006)

Yes great info - a related question - is there any reel out there with both a long cast spool design AND a baitrunner feature? I just LOVE my shimano baitrunners...but wish they were more distance-friendly. (of course i wish my technique were the same  )


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## Sudsrat (Dec 25, 2005)

Great info here.
I'm also looking at the Saltiga Surf.


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## Jamcaster (Oct 14, 2000)

trowpa,Shimano makes a Big Pit Baitrunner with a longcast spool , but it is available only in the U.K.They use it mainly for carp fishing.This reel and the Shimano Aero Technium 10000 XT are real distance friendly


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## fishinmama (Oct 14, 2006)

hubby loves his saltiga surf 5500


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

trowpa said:


> Yes great info - a related question - is there any reel out there with both a long cast spool design AND a baitrunner feature?


Tica Abyss has a bait runner function.


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## trowpa (Jan 26, 2006)

Jamcaster said:


> trowpa,Shimano makes a Big Pit Baitrunner with a longcast spool , but it is available only in the U.K.They use it mainly for carp fishing.This reel and the Shimano Aero Technium 10000 XT are real distance friendly


Thanks i'll check them out.


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## dsurf (Aug 5, 2003)

*Long Distance Spinning*



kmw21230 said:


> So are you saying the Emblem is designed for mono?


[/QUOTE]

Daiwa's reverse tapered spool, labeled ABS (Advanced Ballistic System), was designed (although primarily a marketing scheme) to prevent tangles caused by loosely wound or stiff line falling forward in bundles (wind knots) on the cast....primarily directed at mono. It has been my experience that any forward tapered spool will outperform a 'no taper' or reverse tapered spool, braid or mono (assuming you do not overfill the spool...contributing to wind knots). If you examine many of the Daiwa Japan long distance reels, some with no drag, they have considerably more taper than their fishing models....some as much as 6 or 7 degrees taper.......that in itself is an indication of Daiwa position on long distance spinning performance reels.......as much forward taper as possible without compromising line flow integrity. The attached link show a Daiwa spool variety with 6 degree taper..... will not hold sufficient line (even braid) for most fishing purposes.
......The Basia pictured in post above only has a 2 or 3 degree taper
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r240/dcamry/basiadistancespool.jpg


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## darrel (Feb 25, 2005)

*Penn 750 uk*

I used my Penn a couple of weeks ago casting an 8 + bait and it held up better than I did. Finally I dunked the reel and loaded it up with sand. It seemed easy to disassemble and I have all the parts back in place- Lots of hidding places in those springs! Seems like a decent reel I just can't toss an 8 and look like a caster. I matched it with the HDX and the waves don't bother that power pro as much as the mono.


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