# Point Is Closed



## DERFM (Jun 19, 2004)

*** NEWS RELEASE ***

DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
NATIONAL PARK SERVICE
OUTER BANKS GROUP
Cape Hatteras National Seashore
Fort Raleigh National Historic Site
Wright Brothers National Memorial

For Immediate Release: For Information Contact:
Mary H. Doll
July 14, 2005
(252) 473-2111 ext. 154

Cape Point Temporarily Closed to Visitor Use for
Plover Chick Protection

Cape Point, a popular recreational area at Cape Hatteras National Seashore, will be temporarily closed to all visitor use starting
Thursday July 14, 2005. The eight-day old piping plover chicks, which
hatched from a nest on the South Beach last week, have moved to Cape Point foraging for food. The current foraging site is immediately adjacent to the Cape Point visitor and off-road vehicle use area.
The temporary closure will remain in effect until the chicks locate to another foraging area. All vehicle and pedestrian use will be prohibited during the closure. The temporary closure area will start approximately .4 miles south of Ramp 44.
“The plover chicks continue to be extremely mobile in their efforts to find food. The current feeding location necessitates that we take this temporary measure” stated Mark Hardgrove, Acting Superintendent Outer Banks Group. “We are monitoring the location of the chicks during all daylight hours. The beach will be reopened to visitor use as soon as possible.”
The piping plover is listed as a threatened species under the Endangered Species Act (ESA). The ESA prohibits harassing, harming, pursuing, hunting, shooting, wounding, killing, trapping, capturing, or collecting federally protected species. Penalties for violation of the ESA for threatened species include a fine of up to $25,000, imprisonment for not more than six months, or both.
Plover chicks are typically mobile within 24 hours of hatch.
Once mobile, the chicks will leave the nest and move extensively along the beach, intertidal zone, and mudflats to feed with their parents. Plover chicks have been documented to move hundreds of yards from the nest site during their first week of life.
Cape Hatteras National Seashore statistics document that piping plover chick fledging has declined from a high of twelve chicks fledged out of 20 hatched in 1998. Last year, no chicks fledged, out of four eggs hatched. Numbers of breeding pairs of piping plover and nests have also declined.



ABOUT PIPING PLOVERS
Piping plovers are small, sand-colored shorebirds that nest on sandy, coastal beaches from South Carolina to Newfoundland. Since 1986, the Atlantic Coast population has been protected as a threatened species under provisions of the ESA.
Piping plover lay their eggs in nests situated above the high tide line on coastal beaches, sand flats at the end of sandspits and barrier islands, gently sloping foredunes, blowout areas behind primary dunes, and washover areas cut into or between dunes. Nest sites are shallow scraped depressions in the sand.
Feeding activities of chicks may be particularly important to their survival. Piping plover chicks typically triple their weight during the first two weeks post-hatching. Feeding activities of both adults and chicks occur during all hours of the day and night and at all stages of the tidal cycle.
Plover foods consist of invertebrates such as marine worms, fly larvae, beetles, crustaceans, or mollusks. Feeding areas include intertidal portions of ocean beaches, washover areas, mudflats, sandflats, wrack lines and shorelines of coastal ponds, lagoons, or salt marshes.
Typical behavior of piping plover chicks increases their vulnerability to vehicles. Chicks frequently move between the upper berm or foredune and feeding habitats in the wrack line, intertidal zone, and mud flats. These movements place chicks in the paths of off- road vehicles driving along the berm or through the intertidal zone.
Plover chicks will stand in, walk, and run along tire ruts, and sometimes have difficulty crossing deep ruts or climbing out of them.
Chicks, using defensive behavior, will sometime stand motionless or crouch in tire tracks as vehicles approach. The small chicks may not be able to move quickly enough to get out of the way.
Predatory threats to piping plover include red fox, feral cats, dogs, gulls, raccoons, and crows. These predator species will feed on both plover eggs and chicks.
####

National Park Service
Outer Banks Group
1401 National Park Road


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*plovers*

I can't believe that these people would destroy the economic stability of buxton villiage over those stupid birds.


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## Caught Myself (Sep 14, 2004)

I'm all for wildlife conservation and protection especially for threatened species. But did you read the penalties for "harming" a Piping Plover? "...a fine of up to $25,000, inprisonment for not more than six months, or both". I wouldn't know a Piping Plover if it jumped up and bit me on the nose, much less ran over one. 

This insanity could only be created by the federal government.


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

*Plover*

http://pierandsurf.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/1505


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## The Bucket (Mar 4, 2001)

http://www.obpa.org/


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=89208&ran=136424

Above link to news aticle about yesterday's activities at the point.


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## DERFM (Jun 19, 2004)

another link ..another story...


http://www.wtkr.com/Global/story.asp?S=3597561&nav=0oa7cAm5

derf


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

I got the chance to read the Defenders of Wildlife's "Intent to Sue for Violations of the Endangered Species Act in Connection with the Management of Off-Road Vehicle on Cape Hatteras National Seashore". 
The letter was filed May 17. So, it seems Defenders of Wildlife plans to file suit in federal court around July 18 if Cape Hatteras National Seashore (CHNS) doesn't "comply with even the basic requirements of the ESA (Endangered Species Act) and other environmental laws ..." 
The letter goes on to say "authorizing ORV use at CHNS is unacceptable and must be remedied."
You might have to read this next paragraph very carefully. At least I did. It's written in lawyerese. But it sums up the groups stand on ORVs in Hatteras.
"NPS's decision to authorize ORV use without initiating formal consultation with FWS (U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service), it's failure to provide symbolic fencing of nesting habitat areas as recommended by the agency staff consistent with the piping plover recovery plan, and its failure to assess the environmental impacts of ORV use in contravention of two executive orders, agency regulations, and multiple federal laws clearly constitutes arbitrary and capricious agency action, an abuse of discretion, and agency action not in accordance with law."

I'm not a lawyer, but the letter seems to have some very strong evidence that the NPS in Hatteras is, indeed, in violation with regards to ORVs use. 

The letter is not available on the group's website. However, you can learn more about them at http://www.defenders.org.


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

I found a link to the letter of intent on the "other board". I hope flea doesn't mind me posting it here. 
http://fishmojo.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2073


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## AplusWebMaster (Jun 21, 2004)

FYI...

- http://friscorodgun.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=697
07-16-2005 10:08 AM
"...The park service has reopened a portion of the hook area of the south beach. At ramp 44 (the ramp to the point) you can now turn right just over the ramp which takes you down the interdunal road to the south beach. You can go back to the north towards the point, just not all the way out to it. It's hard to explain, but I thought you guys would like to know you have a little bit more space to enjoy the beach then you did yesterday..."


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

*Rants on RDT and "other boards"..*

*This is a post by Capt Kim on RDT>>>* If thats what you do then they have won IMHO... JAM 
I did not read all of the posts after JAM's because none of what anyone else would say would say it as profoundly as those few words. If you check, there is still miles and miles of beach totally unaffected by this closure. In my opinion, people who take their displeasure out on those who care, i.e., the B&T shops, supermarkets, delis, etc. are more childish and churlish than the people who imposed the restriction.

Anyone who believes there is any validity to an argument, "I am not spending my vacation dollars in Hatteras Island because the NPS closed about one mile of beach" needs to get a reality check. JAM was absolutely correct in his statement. I would add, "We have met the enemy and he is us." If you believe for one instant the NPS really cares about whether your vacation money is spent in Hatteras or anyplace else, I have a bridge in NY that I can get you for half price.

Tell the Visitor's Bureau, your elected state and Congressional officials, the Dare county elected officials, the powers to be at NPS (I know the numbers are posted here and on the "other board.") Don't take your frustrations out on people who have to live with this BS day in and day out. Grow up! Show some intestinal fortitude and direct your frustration where it will actually do some good. 

Last time I checked, the shop owners and people directly affected by your cancelling your vacations do not stand for re-election. Make sure that the ones who do know that you are upset and that you will do everything in your power to see that they are not re-elected. Practice civil disobedience, write Letters to the Editor of the large papers and name the officials and give out their phone numbers, email addresses, fax lines and bury them. Make them realize the OBX is not just losing some income, the people responsible for the lunacy going on may find themselves without a job if drastic changes aren't made.

If it sounds like I am upset with what I read, I am. I don't normally berate individuals as I do not find it normally productive. I am not berating anyone, just the actions they have chosen that in my opinion are misguided. If I have upset anyone in particular, I apologize.



My opinions are very similar to his except,I don't feel NPS to be the "culprit" here. Look to "elected officials of all states" that can have some impact on the ESA (endangered species act) 

Capt Kim has much "put into a nutshell" here,as far as the "chestbeating" and threats that have been the norm on other boards.. This board,"SOFAR",has refrained from that,and that is a tribute to Sandflea.. 

Our fishing rights are at stake here,and our criticism needs to be directed towards the right channels or it will fall on deaf ears.. Our only chance,IMHO,is to get elected officials involved by voicing our views to them. Newspapers,TV,any publicity on our side would be an added advantage as well,because it seems as though DOW is getting all they want right now.

PS,this will be made a "sticky" if folks will post e-mail addies,phone numbers,snailmail addies of elected officials that could have an impact on ESA... NPS numbers and additional pressure on them is welcome as well,but it would be appreciated if anger were directed elsewhere..


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## chuck(skidmark) (Jul 11, 2004)

Thank You Capt. Kim and Kenny.....
It is really great to read sensible posts from sensible people.
I understand how this issue has inflamed tempers but folks really need to be carefull about where they direct their anger. The NPS has the difficult job of enforcing the ESA and trying to keep the park visitors happy. They also are operating under the threat of a lawsuit by a massive, well funded group. Be realistic for a moment and ask yourself how you would handle the situation.

I feel that the best shot that we have toward securing our seashore is changing the laws that are currently in force. I am not in favor of saying to hell with the birds. Seasonal closures, as long as not taken to the extreme, are not neccesarily a bad thing.

We have an opportunity with the current administration to change this law if we have reasonable expectations.


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## Tuck (Oct 29, 2003)

Surfrat, to them it's not destroying, it's called restructuring. :--| 

Chuck, you are right. Laws, mindsets, attitudes all need to change and that goes for everyone. 
We, the folks that like to fish from the beach, get spoonfed this inspiring load of crap spewing from some warped eco commies called the 
National Park Service saying that the closures are only temporary. :--| 

Don't give into the propaganda. They are only telling you what you want to here. It is their objective to eventually close all locations on CHNS from all uncontrolled human involvement. One of our true friends for the right cause, "Point Man"  , has brought the full scope of things elsewhere. I shall paraphrase, 
If things continue on its current path you will never be allowed to set foot on the Point or the Spit at HI or the North Point on OI. You will drive up to a large parking lot, walk the meandering treated planks thru the dunes to a raised platform just past them. Here you will be able to "observe" the wonders of nature from your controlled lookout. There will be informative signs giving the recognition to the "threatened" species you might possibly see on your visit, there will be one giving the history of CHNS, and a loley sign over in the corner of the large observation deck with a photo of a group of Fishermen, some with poles bowed, beach buggies lined up at the surf, possibly some harvest seen, that will state something to the effect "The wonders before you were saved from the devistation seen here in this photo. This savage past was an atrosity to God's wonderous land and creatures thru ignorance and selfish greed. Man is our own worsed enemy and thanks to our superior abilities to comprehend what is right for all living things, we saved this place from desicration. Man shall never again be allowed to destroy the destiny of God's will". :--| 

Now, who's playing God?


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## fish militia (Nov 1, 2004)

I liked to say Thanks to DD for his input and Tuck for the Paraphrase..

DD is right..It's hard for outsiders to understand our plight..We will all feel the economic impact from this eventually..  

"Point Man" summed up exactly what I'd been thinking for sometime...someday..there will be a historic marker saying"The ******** almost destroyed our beaches and wildlife,but we stopped them"

This is truly saddening..but what is a little worse...is the fact alot of people who are up in arms over The Point...didn't have much to say when other closures were inacted..if we want to truly battle these closures...then we need to speak up everytime a piece of fence hits the beach and not wait for the more popular places to close first..

I think the NPS did what I would have done giving the situtation 2 months ago..

The old ..Bait and Switch..

The NPS got rid of Belli ..who could cause a lot of heat just at the site of him..so Get rid of him and bring in someone more personable to deal with the Public and gain their trust...Mr.Francis..

Alot was said and promised in Mr.Francis time..he was only following orders,but he still pulled one over on most everyone who would listen..Amazing...he leaves and a week later the Point is Closed...there was a reason for that..Mr. Francis's job of keeping us at bay...was over..now the NPS could finish what they started very easily..We spent to much time talking and negotiating to see the big picture and what was actually happening around us."BAIT and SWITCH"

DD could eventually feel an economic impact from this,though he does have a 9-5 job to keep the bills paid..The best place for FHB's could stay empty and his Charters could suffer..

I am already feeling the Impact..as people have already contacted me to cancel beach fishing trips..My basic surf fishing classes have been a Nightmare to give..considering the only place I can give them to the public is at Ramp 23..try and find a place to put 15 people for instruction ,when there is trucks as far as the eye can see,cause of limited access..and yes I also have a regular job to help pay the bills.

But unless you live here year round...it's hard to understand just how much it costs to live here...and I don't think it's fair the locals and their business's to suffer ,cause of the NPS's agenda.

So in conclusion...I hope everyone who supports Beach access will band together long before next years" Nightmare Closures"...we need to be ready to fight..long before the first closure ever takes place..


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

*Rob*

A fight is correct,but we must direct the fight in the right place and pick our battles.. Going off "halfcocked" and loaded for bear against the NPS ain't gonna cut it.. When I kill a snake,I go for the head.. The NPS is not the head in this case,IMHO it is DOW with the power of ESA on thier side,making the moves for a government agency. This should be deplorable to any taxpaying citizen. This should be a fight to amend the ESA. The act itself is a good one,although some thought should be given to the consiquences for those affected by it..


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## fish militia (Nov 1, 2004)

Well said...DD and I agree


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## Hattersman (Mar 26, 2002)

*Please Quantiify*

How many breeding pairs have been counted this year and how many chicks have hatched out?


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## croaker (Jun 18, 2004)

*4 chicks....*

3 the first day and 1 the second. At least that was the final count I got. You spent all that time down there last week and didn't know what was going on? BTW, CHNS has the lowest fledging rate on the east coast. Cape Lookout is much higher but has a heck of alot of non use areas and the nestingbeach conditions are more to the little critters liking. Fire Island and Jones beach in NY have a higher success rate. Call me and I'll point you to some documentation regarding this.


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## fish_oinc (Jul 19, 2005)

OK DD where do we go from here what can we do to eliminate this problem next year and to stop it this year. I got 3 weeks before I come and will try as much as I can to do what is necessary. 

We need a battle plan writing letters to or representatives doesn’t really seem to work I get back a basic form letter that we will look into the problem and nothing is done . We need to make some legal noise so some one who cares and will notice. A hand full of birds are causing economical down fall of an area that thrives on people accessing the beach..

I can guarantee if these birds nested on Va beach and the beaches were closed the economics of this would be noticed. 


Where do we go from here


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## AplusWebMaster (Jun 21, 2004)

FYI...

- http://www.obpa.org/chapa/page2.html
"When all of the closures are combined, beach access within the Seashore is reduced from over 38 miles to less than 16 miles. Originally, some 73 miles of Seashore beaches were open to access. Beach access on Ocracoke Island would be effectively eliminated. Piping Plover wintering habitat closures account for over 3,600 acres of closed beaches, areas closed for only 6 to 20 individual birds. Note that Piping Plover Critical Habitat closures ban all human activity, _including foot traffic_. Entering these areas is a federal violation and can result in heavy fines and/or imprisonment."

- http://www.obpa.org/chapa/page3.html


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

fish_oinc said:


> OK DD where do we go from here what can we do to eliminate this problem next year and to stop it this year. I got 3 weeks before I come and will try as much as I can to do what is necessary.
> 
> We need a battle plan writing letters to or representatives doesn’t really seem to work I get back a basic form letter that we will look into the problem and nothing is done . We need to make some legal noise so some one who cares and will notice. A hand full of birds are causing economical down fall of an area that thrives on people accessing the beach..
> 
> ...


 NPS has to go with the more strengent plan because it did not impliment it's own yrs ago.. Calling your rep and talking to him may illiminate the "I'll look into the problem" thing.. At least you could give someone on the other end an earfull,be it him or his aid..

Closures are going to be a way of life here,as it has been since 80's,maybe even earlier than that.. The main thing is that the NPS get in line with a plan that is more fesable for all partys involved. Calling NPS in Atlanta would help,the more phone calls he gets the better. Jody,my better half usually does that cause she can "turn a phrase" a little better than I,and is probably a little more pleasent to talk to.  Wally Hibbard phone # 404-562-3121 He's very receptive to ideas and thoughts,and is very open minded ..


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## Dyhard (Oct 24, 2002)

I think that there are not enough cats in the NPS area. This is a wonderful place where cats could enjoy the good climate and live a full and useful lives with a variety of easily caught food. A pair of foxes maybe. We should be concerned about our furry friends too. Think of all the cats that will be exterminated (extinct) in the next few days!
I'LL TELL YOU WHAT IS ENDANGERED!! PLACES FOR FAMILIES!! and COMMON SENSE!!! Our founding fathers would be enraged!!!


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## JayCamx23 (Apr 3, 2005)

why is everyone all ticked off at the protection of the plovers. there is over 100 miles of beach on the outer banks. so what if part of the beach is closed? what? isnt there plenty more room to fish on the banks? why do you HAVE to fish at the point. go to one of the fishing piers or surf cast around the protected area. is that hard to do? stop cryin about not being able to fish in one spot and move. theres nothing you can do about not being able to fish there so GROW UP and go somewhere else. well...i suppose you could attempt to cast in the protected area with a violent consequence... your choice.

dyhard...lets cut down every tree in the world so then there wont be any issues about places for families...hmmmm...wonder what we'll do when theres no oxygen left for families to breathe  

by the way...if thats your idea of common sense...oh well


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

Jay, maybe you should read the sticky that Drumdum posted on the North Carolina board. 
http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19118
That post speaks wonders as to why people are upset with the closure. I'm not too concerned with the Point being closed for a few weeks. (I'm sure I'd feel differently if I lived down there and made my living off of tourism.)
But what concerns me is the slow erosion of access to public beaches. 
And misuse of tax money. 
Read the post. It's time well spent.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Well said Jeff, seems to me Jay cam should do a lil research before coming out blasting both barrels when its obvious he dosen't know what the hell he's spouting about. :--|


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## JayCamx23 (Apr 3, 2005)

i have read the post and understand why people are angry. but i actually dont have a right to comment on the situation there because it doesnt affect me. i know that if i was a tourist or resident at the point i would takin action right now. the only people i have a problem with is the people who fish the area and cant adjust to the closure. sure, it IS inconvenient, but you have to live with it and it wont be that bad. its only a few weeks til theyre gone. heres and idea for the extreme ones out there...gather a huge group of angry people and invade the area...stampede down the beach. lol


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

JayCamx23 said:


> i have read the post and understand why people are angry. but i actually dont have a right to comment on the situation there because it doesnt affect me. i know that if i was a tourist or resident at the point i would takin action right now. the only people i have a problem with is the people who fish the area and cant adjust to the closure. sure, it IS inconvenient, but you have to live with it and it wont be that bad. its only a few weeks til theyre gone. heres and idea for the extreme ones out there...gather a huge group of angry people and invade the area...stampede down the beach. lol


So what "action" would you take?

One thing you dont see is that the point closure is now a matter of record. Its a fact. That means that next yr when th resource manager(and I use that term loosely) starts to point out areas for closure for "possible" birds to nest, the point is now fair game.

I understand your problem with people making stupid remarks but right now they are upset and may say things they regret in the future. If you have ever or are ever planning on fishing the banks of NC I would suggest you look to becoming part of the solution ie calling,writing,emailing your elected officials. If you don't than keep your mouth shut cuz tempers are hot enough already.JMHO


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## JayCamx23 (Apr 3, 2005)

i was refering to the fishermen. as for the people who live there or visit the area, they are basically payin taxes to have their beach closed for the protection of a few birds. and is the act succeeding? no. they have an arguement. its a lot of money being wasted on something insignificant...fishermen complaining about not being able to fish the area have no arguement.... sorry if i was unclear. i was speaking in terms of fishermen complaining about not being able to fish that area.


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## JayCamx23 (Apr 3, 2005)

maybe i'm takin this too lightly. i DO visit the outer banks 2 weeks every year in late june through early july, and fish every opportunity i get. and it still isnt enough. however, i rent a cottage at mp 19 and dont fish at the point. what action may i want to take? maybe discussing changes made to the Endangered Species Act to create a balance? anything else?


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

*Jaycam*

Not sure where you are from,that really has no bearing here though.. If you are a taxpaying citizen,it should bother you,whether a fisherman or not. Reason is if they can shut down here and effect us,then eventually they will get to your rights soon.. The NPS was lax on putting forth a plan to protect the birds to begin with,now they are putting forth *the MOST STRENGENT PLAN possible..* The reason they couldn't take anymore time in implimenting a fair and just plan to actually protect the birds and give all a fair share of beach is because a special intrest group has a law suit hanging over them and have them running scared.. Imagine that,a gov agency so afraid? Now they are taking measures that are really out of line in comparison to other closures on other beaches that are more suited for the birds.

The birds need a fair shake,NPS needs a fair shake. The question we on Hatteras Island ask the government is *WHERE DA [email protected] IS OUR FAIR SHARE??* Many of us are willing to deal with closures(and have for yrs) and aren't as selfish as you would protray us.. The "wieghts of justice" are tilted towards the side of those with an angenda,meaning some NPS personel that seem to have thier bread buttered by a special intrest group... That's the way many see it..

Hopefully you are really a fisherperson and not a troll.  Anyway,the post that I have made a sticky on the top of page gives you an idea as to who to contact. Also,send letters e-mails,snailmails,phone calls to the congressman of the area you reside in and try to get them on the side of amending the ESA.. 

PS The point I am trying to make here is:*this is not just about the folks of Hatteras and the fishermen,it's about the American citizen and how his or her rights are effected by a special intrest group..* Sooner or later this will come around and haunt everyone everywhere in our country..


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

So Jay, next year when you show up to the beach for two weeks and walk up on this cute little board walk and it stops just short of the beach and the sign reads *No one is allowed on the beach so we can protect the birds and other wild life that MAY come and nest on the beach from humans*. Just remember they closed the areas you don't go to, now that they see they can shut down any area they feel like because of the threat of a lawsuit your area maybe next and don't say it will never happen it has.


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## HighCap56 (Oct 21, 2003)

Piping Plover tastes like Chicken....


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## JayCamx23 (Apr 3, 2005)

good point. sorry if i did portray the people at hatteras as selfish. shooter...i know better than to think that there is no way the beach in front of my cottage will get closed due to possible bird nests. changes definitely need to be made to the EDA to create a fair balance for birds and people. realistically, does a person WALKING, or TANNING on the beach pose a threat to the life of a bird?


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## JayCamx23 (Apr 3, 2005)

and dont question my passion for fishing the outer banks


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## Big EL (Apr 8, 2002)

JayCamx23 said:


> realistically, does a person WALKING, or TANNING on the beach pose a threat to the life of a bird?



One thing is certain.

If they close the beach to protect the possibility that a threatened bird may nest there, you won't be able to walk or tan there.

><))))*>


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## uncleray (Apr 25, 2005)

*Drumdum...*

**this is not just about the folks of Hatteras and the fishermen,it's about the American citizen and how his or her rights are effected by a special intrest group..**

Good point. But it is your lives and livelyhoods being affected by this so I guess it is about the people of Hatteras. From what I've read the plover ranges from Fla. to Canada, can a few on Hatteras EVER make a difference to their survival? I don't think so but it may have an affect on the survival of some businesses. The entire East Coast is under assault. IMO Not just from birds and special interest zelots but from developers. Why do we need golf courses in the estuaries? Why do we need multi million dollar houses built on the dune line? I'm getting off track from the thread so I'll stop but I'm pizzed at all that I see happening to the most wonderful thing God created.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

uncleray said:


> **this is not just about the folks of Hatteras and the fishermen,it's about the American citizen and how his or her rights are effected by a special intrest group..**
> 
> Good point. But it is your lives and livelyhoods being affected by this so I guess it is about the people of Hatteras. From what I've read the plover ranges from Fla. to Canada, can a few on Hatteras EVER make a difference to their survival? I don't think so but it may have an affect on the survival of some businesses. The entire East Coast is under assault. IMO Not just from birds and special interest zelots but from developers. Why do we need golf courses in the estuaries? Why do we need multi million dollar houses built on the dune line? I'm getting off track from the thread so I'll stop but I'm pizzed at all that I see happening to the most wonderful thing God created.


 Uncleray,it is about American tax paying citizens as much as Hat folk,believe me.. Today it's the plover tomorrow maybe oysters,or at least I heard that was the new craz on the list..  

I'm in full agreement,there is an area here known as the Slash,marshland that is in the process of "moderization",shall we say..  

Oh,I also remember days gone by,even got reminded by a pic that was taken one time by a friend.. His brother posed with a drum on the south side of Avon back in 78. Beautiful dune line no buildings whatsoever. Then I turned and looked at what was there now.... :--|


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

First off, I really appreciate Drumdum's post encouraging us to look at this issue from both sides. Dismissing someone's argument without even considering it is a sign of ignorance. Furthermore, we're not the only ones with a dog in this fight. There are other hobbyists--bird watchers, for instance--who may come down on the other side and have good reasons for doing so.

But I'm a fisherman and so I ultimately side with other fishermen.

That said, I'm not as concerned about a closure for a few weeks than I am over what the ultimate goal may be: creating MPA's (Marine Protected Areas). That could ultimately mean banning of all fishing, even from boats. It's already happened in California and Florida.

Watch this one closely, because the birds may actually be a Trojan horse.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

sand flea said:


> That said, I'm not as concerned about a closure for a few weeks than I am over what the ultimate goal may be: creating MPA's (Marine Protected Areas). That could ultimately mean banning of all fishing, even from boats. It's already happened in California and Florida.
> 
> *Watch this one closely, because the birds may actually be a Trojan horse.*


Great point Flea, cuz its starting to look like that is the case.


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## Hawk (Feb 19, 2004)

*Hey Kenny*



> I'm in full agreement,there is an area here known as the Slash,marshland that is in the process of "moderization",shall we say..


Can you say "Pirates Cove"?
I wonder how that happened?


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

*Hey Roy..*



Hawk said:


> Can you say "Pirates Cove"?
> I wonder how that happened?



Can you say $ talk??? Let the avg joblow givit a try,and see the results..


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## Fox Watersports (Jul 17, 2005)

*A few years ago....*

My father stumbled across a "proposed" MPA plan during a NMFS Large Coastal Shark Plan meeting.....

Cape Point Hatteras to Cape Point Lookout, out to 100 fathoms..................

And it's happening every day in other parts of the country, and it will happen here if people don't take action.........


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Fox Watersports said:


> My father stumbled across a "proposed" MPA plan during a NMFS Large Coastal Shark Plan meeting.....
> 
> Cape Point Hatteras to Cape Point Lookout, out to 100 fathoms..................
> 
> And it's happening every day in other parts of the country, and it will happen here if people don't take action.........


 Teddy,I heard that "The Point" where a lot of OI and Hat boats go is first in line.. 

I can just about gaurantee our local congressman will get in on the action and give some help there,at least I hope he does.. Where is he now though? 

One thing I hope from all this discussion is that folks will actually see the light and do the e-mails,snailmails,phonecalls,ect to congressmen about all these issues. If we don't a select few in a special intrest group will rule the majority,at least as far as I'm concerned.. We have to make our voices heard or our favorite past time,and for some thier living will cease to be..


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## jerseysalt (Jul 8, 2005)

*dd and sand flea*

this fight is not about just HI.....it is about our right to fish on our land.....it is OURS not DOW......just think if next yr there are more birds or what ever they may close more beachs....they are all ready too many beachs closed up and down the coast...the sportsman take care of there own.....up here in dirty jerz we have more deer, turkey,bear, and coyete than in the last 100yrs...WHY? .... the sportsman..and there are folks out there who want us to stop hunting and fishing.....we need to approch this like like the sportsman we are.......i would love to see some birds nest in AC, cape may, wildwood and see what happens..."$$$ talks bullsh** walks"....jersey out


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## JayCamx23 (Apr 3, 2005)

*Do Somethin!!!*

people who enjoy fishing the outer banks...you gotta get out there and make your voice heard like i am. step up to the mic and speak your mind...email or call up your congressmen and give em your thoughts and ideas. please do this for your own joy, and others who fish the banks joy. people DO make a living off of fishing, and they need our support so they continue makin a living doing what they love. if you just take a little time out of your life and make your voice heard it will make a difference.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

*Thanks Jay*

Every person that gets involved makes a difference!


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Yeap,it will be an effort for us all,very powerful foe we are up against. They want our fishing and hunting rights.If we do like the song by Meatloaf says "let me sleep on it",we will be shuved by the wayside..


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