# Please critique my OTG cast



## rhetoric (Apr 2, 2009)

So I actually filmed myself today practicing the OTG cast based on what I've learned here so far. I've been watching Tommy's vids to try and imitate his OTG cast. I have a ways to go. 

Anyway, please take a look if you have a minute and tell me where I need to improve...and what I'm doing well (if anything...) 

This is my 8ft Calypso Mako rod/reel Kmart special setup I've mentioned in other threads. I'm using a 3oz pyramid since this is all I have and no stores in my area sell anything else that heavy. I plan on heading to Bass Pro next weekend though.  I am using about a 3 ft drop. Any longer and I tend to go right.

4 casts on the vid, but it's only 1:13 long. All go pretty straight.
1. ~65 yds
2 & 3. ~70 yds
4. ~77-78 yds 

Things I've noticed watching my cast:
1. Need to keep the left arm straighter and not begin the pull until forehead level.
2. My hands are close together...which is due to the rod I guess since I don't have any other place to put them. I think if they were further apart, I could keep my right arm straighter and get a stronger push/pull action.

Thanks for any constructive criticism!

*Here's the link:*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mXyBFyzK98


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## Jesse Lockowitz (Feb 13, 2006)

look up. pick a place in the sky and aim for it.


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## rhetoric (Apr 2, 2009)

Yeah. That's something I keep forgetting. I'm concentrating so much on my arms that I forget about that. Thanks.


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

not being a smart ass, but better equiptment is needed.
if nothing else a longer rod would work miracles.
it's hard to get arm extention on that short butt.


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

^ agree. 
if your going to bps. look into the oceanmaster 12' cape point special 3-6 rods.
a 12' 3-6oz rod would basically allow to you fish anywhere on the east coast with no problems. 

pair the rod with a daiwa emcast 5500 or penn sargus 6000. fill it up with 15# mono. tie on a 50# shock leader.
and your good to go.


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## rhetoric (Apr 2, 2009)

fish bucket said:


> not being a smart ass, but better equiptment is needed.
> if nothing else a longer rod would work miracles.
> it's hard to get arm extention on that short butt.


Don't worry, I'm well aware of that.  It's something I'm working on. Hope to upgrade very soon. But for now, it's all I've got...



ooeric said:


> if your going to bps. look into the oceanmaster 12' cape point special 3-6 rods.
> a 12' 3-6oz rod would basically allow to you fish anywhere on the east coast with no problems.
> 
> pair the rod with a daiwa emcast 5500 or penn sargus 6000. fill it up with 15# mono. tie on a 50# shock leader.
> and your good to go.


Thanks for the brand/model suggestions. This will help me a bit later. I hopefully have a lead on something now and will get to post something new in a week or two with that...thanks to a great member here.

My brother may be getting something too though so I'm passing this info on to him.


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## RW_20 (Oct 16, 2007)

I'm probably not one to give advice here but I too have been working hard on my casting distane. As the guys have already stated upsizing in your gear is gonna double your distance off the bat. The main thing I noticed and the hardest thing for me to learn is to not try to throw with your right arm. When you come over concentrate on pulling the butt into your gut. That will make a huge difference. Be careful throwing OTG with that lite rod, she'll snap on ya.

Nice video work.


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Not bad form at all for a beginer. You've gotten some good advice here. The butt cap to reel seat distance is too close to get an effective punch/pull so a rod would really help. 

Don't try to hit the groundcast too hard with your present set-up or you may break it. 

A few tips,

Look toward the target, up at 40-45 degs.

Concentrate on left arm extension so you have room to pull (again, a proper rod would help here).

Add body rotation a little at a time. Think of your body as a spring, uncoil from the ground up. First legs & hips, then torso and shoulders and arms last.

Try to get you chest square to the target before applying the power.

Good luck.

Tommy


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## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

Besides what's been mentioned here, you could probably add a little bit of distance by rotating the reel. Right now when you cast you are side-loading the rod. If you rotate the reel so it is pointing away from your body you will have all the sinker load straight along the spine instead of loaded from the side.

Also, I like the camera angles and the titles. 

Keep up the practice. With a rod designed for surf casting you will see a dramatic increase in distance.

Evan


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## drawinout (May 11, 2008)

I'm digging the camera angles as well rhetoric!!! Looks like you have a good dog too.


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## rhetoric (Apr 2, 2009)

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts on this. I've got a lot to think about. I'm printing all of this out to take with me when I practice. 

racewire20, my right arm does look like it's throwing. Like you said, maybe a longer rod will help with that a little. But I will try to keep it straight and put more into the push/pull.

Tommy, great stuff as always. I'm going to try to focus on a couple of those things at a time and leave it up to good old repetition. 

I'll do my best not to break the rod.  Although, it won't exactly be a huge loss if I do....

The one thing I don't understand is what you were saying Evan. Or maybe I do. When you say "side loading", do you mean just before I cast, the line to the sinker is coming off the side of the last guide? and this is because my reel is perpendicular to the ground? And that I should rotate the rod/reel 90 degrees away from me so that the reel is parallel to the ground and the line is coming off the "top" of the guide? 

I think that's what you meant, just not familiar with the lingo yet. That makes a lot of sense if it is what you were saying.


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## rhetoric (Apr 2, 2009)

drawinout said:


> I'm digging the camera angles as well rhetoric!!! Looks like you have a good dog too.


Lol. I wasn't sure which angle would be best so I tried a few...and then just decided to include all of them. Couldn't hurt!

The first dog is Maxx. 10 yr old Border Collie/Sheltie mix. Best dog ever!

Right at the end you can see Jasper for a second. He's an 8 yr old Belgian Shepherd. Great dog too, but kinda boneheaded and has a drinking problem... But hey, I love him!


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## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

You interpreted my post correctly. You always want the reel pointed away from you. Mostly I say this because in your videos the reel is swinging around at the end of the cast. You're having to use wrist rotation to put the reel in the proper position at the very end, which is in effect weakening your grip. I had the same problem when I first started using spinners until Chris on CG pier told me to rotate the reel away from me.

Check out this clip of Sgt. Slough casting. He throws spinners exclusively to impressive distances and contributed a lot to the OTG Bible thread. Notice that his reel moves completely in line with his rod and never rotates around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UXMPe-8yZ0

Again, great work. 60-70 yds with that setup is not bad at all!

Evan


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## rhetoric (Apr 2, 2009)

kingfisherman23 said:


> You interpreted my post correctly. You always want the reel pointed away from you. Mostly I say this because in your videos the reel is swinging around at the end of the cast. You're having to use wrist rotation to put the reel in the proper position at the very end, which is in effect weakening your grip. I had the same problem when I first started using spinners until Chris on CG pier told me to rotate the reel away from me.
> 
> Check out this clip of Sgt. Slough casting. He throws spinners exclusively to impressive distances and contributed a lot to the OTG Bible thread. Notice that his reel moves completely in line with his rod and never rotates around.
> 
> ...


Great! The vid was great to help me visualize the rotation. I should be able to fix that without too much thinking...at least during the cast.


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## Fireline20 (Oct 2, 2007)

*Easy 130 yard Spinning Reel Cast*

130 yard plus cast for Spinners:

Equipment: 13ft rod, large spooled Daiwa Emcast 6000/BG60 or equivalent reel. 130 yards of 20-30lb braid or Fireline running line backed by 200 yards of 30 lb Ande or Big game mono, Tie on 20 ft 50-60 lb mono stress leader at the tip and make sure at least one wrap of mono is around your reel and attached to your running braid/fireline with a well tied albright knot; 5-6 oz of lead ( or more if your brave) plus bait

Then:

1.>First of all get a cheap set of garden urethane work gloves from Lowes, Home Depot, Walmart, etc and cut all the fingers out of the glove your going to use to cast with except the forefinger.

2nd> Raise your right arm holding rod with the line on your gloved forefinger high like thowing a javelin. 

3rd>Touch tip of rod on the ground and throw 3-4 feet of line with the weight/bait off the tip behind your back. 

4th> Move your left foot back (for a right hander) approx 45 degrees to the shore

5> Grip the butt of the rod with your left hand as far down the rod but as possible.

6. Start your swing over your right shoulder like your going to swing an axe down and split a piece of wood.

7. Gaze at the horizon at 45 degrees.

8. When your mind tells you your at 45 degrees, let go of the line from your right gloved index finger and keep the rod tip pointed at 45 degrees.

Watch it fly and let it hit the water and wait 2-5 secs before you throw the bail.


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## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

I think SpinMeister is trying to describe a high-inertia or Brighton cast. It is an effective cast off the beach and will throw a good long way but I prefer the traditional OTG or the pendulum for field work and the Hatteras for fishing. I have used the Brighton to throw king anchors off CG Pier where the observation platform limits your casting space.

Evan


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## rhetoric (Apr 2, 2009)

SpinMeister99 said:


> 130 yard plus cast for Spinners:
> 
> Equipment: 13ft rod, large spooled Daiwa Emcast 6000/BG60 or equivalent reel. 130 yards of 20-30lb braid or Fireline running line backed by 200 yards of 30 lb Ande or Big game mono, Tie on 20 ft 50-60 lb mono stress leader at the tip and make sure at least one wrap of mono is around your reel and attached to your running braid/fireline with a well tied albright knot; 5-6 oz of lead ( or more if your brave) plus bait
> 
> ...


Nice description. Thanks for the info. The glove idea might be a good one for me since I sliced my finger on Sunday. Although I've since learned it more likely has to do with loosening the drag right before that cast. 

Do others wear something on their finger for a spinning reel even with a heavy shock leader?



kingfisherman23 said:


> I think SpinMeister is trying to describe a high-inertia or Brighton cast. It is an effective cast off the beach and will throw a good long way but I prefer the traditional OTG or the pendulum for field work and the Hatteras for fishing. I have used the Brighton to throw king anchors off CG Pier where the observation platform limits your casting space.


Yeah. I have watched some videos on those too. Seems like a good cast for more crowded areas or where you don't need quite the distance. I think I need to start working on the Hatteras some more too as you mentioned. Seen any good "how to" videos on it? I've tried it a few times but can't seem to get the swing right....


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## Fireline20 (Oct 2, 2007)

rhetoric said:


> Nice description. Thanks for the info. The glove idea might be a good one for me since I sliced my finger on Sunday. Although I've since learned it more likely has to do with loosening the drag right before that cast.
> 
> Do others wear something on their finger for a spinning reel even with a heavy shock leader?
> 
> ...


Yeppers to all of the above,,it is a Brighton style. As to the glove, it more or less gives me more confidence in throwing as I know I have protection from being cut by the line, so I just sling it without worry of injury. You can say you don't think about this, but believe, somewhere inside your head your hand is screaming "What the Fxxx are you doing to me. And like a spoiled child it will stamp it's little virtual feet and scream "I won't, I won't, I won't and you can't make me"

As to cutting off all the other fingers, the dexterity you gain handling hooks, line, bait weight and tieing knots is unbelievable. I keep several in my reel bag, plus a couple of left hand ones for my lefty pals.

At $4-5 a pair, that is cheap insurance and a guaranteed extra 15-20 yards if not more on your cast


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

One thing to add here. You need a minimum of 6-8 turns of shockleader on the reel, not one.

Tommy


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## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

I have yet to see a good Hatteras cast video. I have my tripod back now though, so maybe I'll film it a bit this week and put it up for critique.

And ditto to what Tommy said about the shock leader. May not be as much of a concern with your current setup but when you really start putting power into it you want 6-8 turns of shock.

Regarding the glove: Good idea for spinning and casting. I have an old pair of wakeboarding gloves that I cut all the fingers and most of the palm out of, leaving the wrist section and the thumb. I also have a glove that is cut for spinning but I recently traded my OMCP spinning rod for a pogy net so that one doesn't get much use.

However, you might want to look into the Breakaway cannon if you will be throwing spinners. I've heard you can add 25-30 yds from using the cannon.

Evan


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## Fireline20 (Oct 2, 2007)

kingfisherman23 said:


> I have yet to see a good Hatteras cast video. I have my tripod back now though, so maybe I'll film it a bit this week and put it up for critique.
> 
> And ditto to what Tommy said about the shock leader. May not be as much of a concern with your current setup but when you really start putting power into it you want 6-8 turns of shock.
> 
> ...


I have two breakaway cannons and I don't like or use either, matter of fact they are up for sale cheap. Never really got used to the method and I find that with the one finger glove I have more "feel" and control.

Now as to 4 to 5 wraps, I will take Tommy's word on that but I would think that 1-2 should be fine, since what your doing is putting the stress of taking 6 oz + in motion from dead rest to probably speeds close to 100 mph on the leader. 

So it seems to me, and I could very well be wrong, that once the line and weight have made the turn from behind the shoulder to in front, and before you release your finger the stress has been placed on the line in front of the tip down through the guides on the rod and anchored by the 1-2 wraps on the reel. By the time you get through the first two wraps, the weight is on it's way and just stripping line from the reel,,,but hey that is just my very humble opinion and I am probably wrong


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## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

I'm not an experienced caster by any means, but this is how it works out for me. The shock leader is designed to cushion the main line from the extreme stress present while loading the rod. It does this by displacing that stress over the spool. More wraps means more displacement. A shock that is wrapped once or twice is focusing the stress on those two coils, which I think makes the line more susceptible to digging down into the spool. While traveling along the shock wraps only about half the effective force is going into the spool. The rest is continuing along the line. 2 wraps reduces the tension less than 5 or 6. That means less stress tension reaches the shock knot and the main line. With 5 or 6 wraps you increase the effective displacement area and reduce the chance of digging a wrap. Then with more than 8 wraps you actually reduce distance because the shock knot has less dynamic force pulling it straight and is more likely to slap the guides on the release.

I hope that kind of makes sense. It goes along with rotational stress displacement and tensile strength displacement physics.

Evan


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## Fireline20 (Oct 2, 2007)

kingfisherman23 said:


> I'm not an experienced caster by any means, but this is how it works out for me. The shock leader is designed to cushion the main line from the extreme stress present while loading the rod. It does this by displacing that stress over the spool. More wraps means more displacement. A shock that is wrapped once or twice is focusing the stress on those two coils, which I think makes the line more susceptible to digging down into the spool. While traveling along the shock wraps only about half the effective force is going into the spool. The rest is continuing along the line. 2 wraps reduces the tension less than 5 or 6. That means less stress tension reaches the shock knot and the main line. With 5 or 6 wraps you increase the effective displacement area and reduce the chance of digging a wrap. Then with more than 8 wraps you actually reduce distance because the shock knot has less dynamic force pulling it straight and is more likely to slap the guides on the release.
> 
> I hope that kind of makes sense. It goes along with rotational stress displacement and tensile strength displacement physics.
> 
> Evan


Ok that makes since as I was definately thinking that the more wraps the less distance as I want to get down to my 30 lb Fireline as quick as possible as it's friction and memory are going to much lower that 50-60 mono. So 4-5 turns is a good compromise for me between 1-2 and 6-8.

Which brings up another question. What line or brand of 50+ lb mono is best for the leader, meaning lowest diameter, less memory but still good stretch and tensile strength and abrasion resistance. Add to that less visable to the fish. I am using Hi Seas Camo Mono made in Portugal but it tend to spring off my reel when I am putting it away for the day and I have to clip to the clip on the reel (which my Daiwa BG 60 does not have) or rubber band it. And when I do clip it to the spool, my mind is screaming "you're creating a weak spot in the line with the clip ding dong!!!!"

Suggests are appreciated.


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