# Red Drum wiping out blue crabs



## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

As much as I love blue crabs, I love catching drum even more 

_There are a variety of potential reasons for the decline. Maryland and Virginia both reported a large influx of red drum fish, which are highly predatory on crabs. Virginia anglers last year caught and released 2.5 million red drum. That’s *40 times* the 61,330 reported in 2011 and nearly 90 times the 28,580 reported in 2010, according to federal records. Maryland’s 2012 red drum harvest is estimated to be nearly 300,000 fish, compared to fewer than 3,000 in 2010 and 2011._

40 times!

[link]


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## sudshunter (Jan 20, 2008)

so lets keep some trophy's for mounting ?


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## ORF Pete (Sep 26, 2009)

Nah, I think I'll just eat less blue crabs instead.


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## KEVIN (Feb 26, 2009)

I thought that last year that there were more blue crabs in the Bay than ever


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## Fishbreath (Nov 11, 2004)

Matt, 

I believe that study and the science weenoids to be flawed in their research conclusion. What I believe to be the case and situation is the lack of menhaden in the ecosystem. 

The menhaden are the striper, blue, and even drum's primary food source (well, maybe not the drum) and with all the netting of menhaden being done, the numbers of bunker are way down resulting in gamefish seeking other means of sustenance...blue crab. At one point with menhaden being scarce, we had striper fry being eaten by larger striper. Just my 2 cents...

Tack on the increased pressure and demand on the blue crab by people....


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## Big EL (Apr 8, 2002)

I think we should go to 2 slots a day...........poor blue crabs..... 

><))))*>


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## SurFeesher (May 5, 2010)

That's a great point, FishBreath. They gotta eat something. Could be the increase in reds is that they are going where the food (crabs) are; in the bay. Last summer/ fall was an insane puppy drum bite on northern beaches of OBX also. Mostly just below slot size when I was there.


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

Republicans in va. gov't will blame it on anything but polluted water and over fishing.


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## Canon (Jun 26, 2012)

someones always gotta the politics route :--|


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## ORF Pete (Sep 26, 2009)

Thanks for saying what I was thinking Canon...


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## dnunn (Nov 6, 2010)

surffshr said:


> Republicans in va. gov't will blame it on anything but polluted water and over fishing.


Oh boy, here we go....

When there are so many fish (reds), the water can't be but so polluted. That plus lots of baby crabs (food), and those reds took fair opportunity. We need to stop talking and go fishing...Two 16" +/- would do me real good! Save the bay--Eat more reds!


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

dnunn said:


> Oh boy, here we go....
> 
> When there are so many fish (reds), the water can't be but so polluted. That plus lots of baby crabs (food), and those reds took fair opportunity. We need to stop talking and go fishing...Two 16" +/- would do me real good! Save the bay--Eat more reds!


who do you think appointed the people who made the report.


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## dnunn (Nov 6, 2010)

surffshr said:


> who do you think appointed the people who made the report.


From the article: 
"DNR and the Virginia Institute of Marine Science have conducted the primary assessment of the bay’s blue crab population annually since 1990."

That's Maryland's DNR. I'm not that familiar with MD's politics, but I think the MD governor is a dem, serving a second term. VIMS, in my opinion, is an educational, science-oriented institution. Jack Travelstead has served with the Virginia Marine Resources Commission since March 1, 1981. He has been chief of the Fisheries Management Division since 1984, and deputy commissioner since 2006. Travelstead was appointed acting commissioner by Governor McDonnell on March 22, 2012.

Nobody is denying that pollution is an issue in the bay. In fact, the Ches Bay TMDL and implementation plan is widely acknowledged as the largest and most challenging watershed restoration plan ever undertaken. Nobody is saying 'back off.' 

The report states these facts: low juvenile crab numbers, very high red drum numbers. Is there a connection/correlation? It seems reasonable, especially in light of the striper population and menhaden harvest too. All those redfish are eating something, lots of it, and we know they like crabs. So why not allow a slot harvest of those redfish? 'Make it so!'

Lighten up and let's go fishing!


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## Canon (Jun 26, 2012)

in my years fishing here i can see trends. A few years back we had a similar population of reds. My theory on these fish is that we are at teh top of the curve right now. all those tiny fish that we caught are getting big. in 2-3 years we will be back to them being scarce and they get bigger and move offshore. Then a few years down the road itll happen all over again


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## Smittroc (May 1, 2009)

KEVIN said:


> I thought that last year that there were more blue crabs in the Bay than ever


Same thing I thought.. darn sure seemed like it. seems like EVERYBODY that crabbed did good.


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## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

JMHO, but did not the crab numbers drop considerably when they started allowing the females to be harvested and the lengths overall shortened?

and I agree things occur in cycles with fish and the current slot and daily limit should be left where it is.


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## Samblam (May 22, 2011)

Canon said:


> in my years fishing here i can see trends. A few years back we had a similar population of reds. My theory on these fish is that we are at teh top of the curve right now. all those tiny fish that we caught are getting big. in 2-3 years we will be back to them being scarce and they get bigger and move offshore. Then a few years down the road itll happen all over again


this +1


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## striperone (Oct 9, 2012)

Dont even start a rediculouse rumor,my intire family are commercial crabers had the best two years on record in both va and md already getting the best first of the year this year.get out of here ya people that dont know what your talking about should just stop reading stupid peoiples post jesus!!


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## striperone (Oct 9, 2012)

Not to put stuff in ur heads but over harvesting was the cause nothing else at least some of us tell the truth,go in the evening to the warf downtown dc and see the waste that is thrown away its crazy


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## SurFeesher (May 5, 2010)

I think the crabs have been sequestered and told not to come to work or eat anything.


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## jay b (Dec 1, 2002)

One word for both the Reds and Crabs - cyclical

If the Reds continue their abundance for a few more years then yeah maybe consider an increase in catch/keep limits but make sure it's not an anomaly first. I would also like the limits to include one over slot fish per day because the big ones eat well too and are abundant as well.

As far as the Blue Crab, that survey may be off a little or the population may be down this year but with the last few years being a lot better than this one I'd wait a couple more years to find out if this years numbers weren't an anomaly too. The survey did say that it was the males numbers that were down and the female population was actually up so with more Mommies there should be more babies. Virginia did reduce the quota for females the last few years to improve their numbers along with banning winter dredging which probably helped more than anything not to mention helped more bottom grass grow by not dredging it up every winter.

Either way 40 times more Red Drum can never be a bad thing. Just hope they grew up a little this past winter, I can't tell you how many under slot Pups I caught last year.


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## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

striperone said:


> Not to put stuff in ur heads but over harvesting was the cause nothing else at least some of us tell the truth,go in the evening to the warf downtown dc and see the waste that is thrown away its crazy


Agreed from someone that grew up on the Bay and I am certain that those before you would agree that the harvesting changes has effected the crab population in a negative way.


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## dnunn (Nov 6, 2010)

jay b said:


> One word for both the Reds and Crabs - cyclical


I agree. Time to ride the wave.

I live more towards middle Bay. What's a good hotspot(s)? Mobjack. Dameron Marsh? I caught some pups in the gut beside the island (New Point Comfort), back years ago. And I just got dish tv and saw the boys catching tailing reds in the shallows. Do you see them feeding like that in/around the Bay?


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## chest2head&glassy (Jul 2, 2002)

dnunn said:


> I agree. Time to ride the wave.
> 
> I live more towards middle Bay. What's a good hotspot(s)? Mobjack. Dameron Marsh? I caught some pups in the gut beside the island (New Point Comfort), back years ago. And I just got dish tv and saw the boys catching tailing reds in the shallows. Do you see them feeding like that in/around the Bay?


I fish tributaries like the Elizabeth, Lynnhaven and Rudee via yak for reds. You can see the reds in the shallows/creeks with a tail coming out occasionally. Usually, you'll see a red causing a "submarine" wake. It's pretty cool sight casting but I haven't seen the bull reds in the shallows like they do on the TV shows down south.

And back to the topic - I agree on the cyclical pattern. Per my log, 2004, 2008, 2012 were thick with undersized pups.


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## Canon (Jun 26, 2012)

why dont you get mad about it


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## Big EL (Apr 8, 2002)

Let's go to 2 slots a day............until we achieve balance, You remember lesson about balance? 

Lesson not just for fishing but for whole life....

><))))*>


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

Damn, D- how long since you been fishin in va? You can keep 3~


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## Big EL (Apr 8, 2002)

Apparently two long........

Was able to get in some striper and Black Sea Bass fishing this past fall out at the third Island. Last time I fished for Drum was the 2011 Drum Tournament 

><))))*>


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## Big EL (Apr 8, 2002)

Apparently too long........

Was able to get in some striper and Black Sea Bass fishing this past fall out at the third Island. Last time I fished for Drum was the 2011 Drum Tournament 

><))))*>


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## GotchaMack (Jun 16, 2004)

I mean really.......the drum are to blame for a low blueclaw population in the Chesapeake? LOL.....wonders never cease!


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