# Rod question???



## mdelletro (Jun 22, 2007)

I was told by a reputable source that I could get more distance out of my spinning reels, by using them on casting rods. As long as I used braid and not mono. Have you tried this? What do you think?


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

just use thinner line with the spinning rod and reel.
youll actually cut distance with the casting rod.


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## Charlie2 (May 2, 2007)

*Spinner on a Caster*

Comparing braid to mono; I'd have to agree with him. It also depends on how the casting rod is 'rung'. 

The use of braid allows the use of a smaller butt guide and modern day casting rods have a larger butt guide graduated down to the running guides.

Rods with Lowrider guides are sometimes called 'Dual Purpose' rods for this reason. The butt guide on this configuration is larger and reversed to handle the loop caused by braid. 

You can sometimes get away with a smaller butt guide by locating it further down the rod. I have a 12 foot UL surf rod that is 'rung' this way and it casts small Pompano jigs out of sight.

I would like to hear others comment on this subject.

These comments are based on my personal observations. C2


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

You’ll loose distance casting a spinning reel on a casting rod because of the diameter of the guides, which are smaller than on a spinning rod. The only way that will work is if you change the casting guides to the bigger spinning guides. The after that you have to worry about the spine of the rod. Sorry I can’t explain that one but it has something to do with the strength of the rod. Maybe a rod builder can chine in on this.


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## mdelletro (Jun 22, 2007)

I was told this by the guy who builds rods at Hatteras Jacks.


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

Fishman said:


> You’ll loose distance casting a spinning reel on a casting rod because of the diameter of the guides, which are smaller than on a spinning rod. The only way that will work is if you change the casting guides to the bigger spinning guides. The after that you have to worry about the spine of the rod. Sorry I can’t explain that one but it has something to do with the strength of the rod. Maybe a rod builder can chine in on this.


That's not quite right actually. The diameter of the guides doesn't have as much to do with it as much as the taper of the diameter of multiple guides, if that makes sense. One of the new trends right now is micro-guides, and you're talking a 2 or 3mm guide toward the end of the rod. The deal with spinners is the stripper guide, or first guide from the reel, is the one that tames the line down and starts to get it under control. The faster you do this, the better. That's why the Fuji New Guide Concept setup works so well. You basically choke it down fast, and use the same size guide from the choke point to the tip of the rod. Those guides can be teeny-tiny, and they won't hinder the flow of line out once you get past the choker guide. This may explain better than I'm rambling on here:

http://www.rodbuilding.org/library/newguide.html

That said, you're not likely to get any better distance by using a conventional rod with a spinner. The way the guides create a cone to tame the line as it comes off a spinner is paramount to getting good distance in my opinion. 

What *will* get you some better distance is to work on your casting form, and practice. The ability to properly load a rod and understanding the mechanics of a good cast will do much better than fiddling with the rod type.


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

The problem is that with the smaller guides is with a larger spool the line will slap on the guides thus slowing the speed of the line coming off the spool. The line does not come off the spool in a straight line like it does on a casting reel and for the most part not touching the first guide or stripper guide like id will on a spinning rod.


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## mdelletro (Jun 22, 2007)

does braid help to reduce this?


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

mdelletro said:


> does braid help to reduce this?


I wouldn't think so because of the line slapping in the guides. Seems to me it would be the same as with mono.


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## Bobmac (Oct 11, 2008)

Braid would reduce the effect of line slap because of it's smaller diameter and coating but not enough to matter for the most part. 
You would shorten the useful life of the line substantially with the increased friction. 
The other thing to take into account is the retrieve which is going to be rough as he## with a coffee grinder on a conventional rod.


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## rchipbrown (Oct 9, 2009)

"You’ll loose distance casting a spinning reel on a casting rod because of the diameter of the guides, which are smaller than on a spinning rod. The only way that will work is if you change the casting guides to the bigger spinning guides."

I also believe this is incorrect. Rod development is undergoing evolutionary changes now. The "old" spinning reel guide system is not the most effective system for casting braided line with a spinning reel. Smaller guides are more effective. In fact, the Daiwa interline rods have no guides at all; the line runs thru the blank. Braided line casts further if it is contained.


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## Tacpayne (Dec 20, 2008)

Charlie2 said:


> Comparing braid to mono; I'd have to agree with him. It also depends on how the casting rod is 'rung'.
> 
> The use of braid allows the use of a smaller butt guide and modern day casting rods have a larger butt guide graduated down to the running guides.
> 
> ...


I agree with Charlie on this one


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## Sandcrab (Mar 20, 2002)

*Max distance... (for everyone less Mark Edwards that is)*

... conventional (non-levelwind) reel on a conventional rod...

If you want to get more distance with a spinner - use smaller diameter braid line...

I dont agree with the "one rod for both types" concept...

Mark sets records with his spinning setup...

Just my .02

Sandcrab


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## dsurf (Aug 5, 2003)

Fishman said:


> I wouldn't think so because of the line slapping in the guides. Seems to me it would be the same as with mono.



Disagree....the slick coating on most braids, coupled with the diminished loop size created by low-riders will, in general, facilitate max distance. A 20mm gathering guide set at 47-55" from reel stem on a 12-14' rod will usually optimize distance.......of course will vary depending on reel and rod specs.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

I've been throwing rods with Lowriders exclusively for my distance fishing since 2003. I have them on 11' St Croix, 11'-9" AS1418, 12' AFAW Universal, 12'-6" RSSU1569, 13'-2" AS1507 and 13'-6" CTS 5-8 with more CTS's on the way .

The primary reason Lowriders are used on distance spinning gear is to eliminate guide wraps caused by "blow-by" of the line because of its velocity. 

Distance spinner *systems*, and I call it a system of rod, guides, reel and line, _when properly matched_, make having 600+ft capable *fishing* set-ups an easy (but $$$$) achievement. The guides and spacings are very important on distance gear because even a set-up capable of casting just 400-500ft creates high enough line velocities to cause regular 40mm - 50mm gatherer guides to be problematic. Before long spool reels and braided line and zoned action, high modulus rods, this wasn't a problem. A Penn 704 with 20lb mono on an 11ft Lami wasn't creating high line velocity LOL.

To answer the OP's question, throwing a spinner on a conventional can be done as long as the first guide is at least 40" from the reel stem . . . the longer is better. I have tried out various rods at Sportcast events which were rung for conventionals and thrown my spinning reels with mono into the mid-600's, . . The smaller guides at that velocity, _even with mono_ create a smooth line flow (once the shock knot passes).

It might surprise some that I use my 1507 with Lowriders for the 100gm sinker in the tourneys (PB 630.8 OTG) so I'm confident in warning you, the "_ya can't cast mono good with small guides_" meme isn't something I would bet big money on. Of course the mono used in casting tourneys is thin by fishing standards; I wouldn't use 20lb mono on small or Lowrider guides but then again braid adds 7% or more to the distance one gets with mono. 

So, in casting a spinner on a conventional rod, braid will perform better than mono and I would use either braid heavy enough that you don't need a casting leader or a braid casting leader.

Also, you'll need a thick skin as you will undoubtedly be pointed to and giggled at. _*That*_ phenomenon has finally waned for me as more fishermen have at least heard of the Lowrider system; in the beginning I had to explain why I was using a conventional rod *a lot*. 

Here is a pic of a Saltiga Ballistic rung conventional next to a CTS with Lowriders. (Daiwa Powersurf and Daiwa Tournament Iso-Ento reels)


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## Charlie2 (May 2, 2007)

*Spinning Reel on Conventional Rod*

Thanks; Sgt. I needed that!

In fact; the first guide on a Lowrider setup emulates the first(and only)guide on the Daiwa and Shimano Innerline rods which is 120 cm or 47.25 inches. It is designed to be used with a spinning rod with braid.

I finished a rod today which required the first guide to be at 49 inches to make it work properly and it wasn't a Lowrider.

I build surf rods and I often use a minimum of 36 inches and sometimes; as much as 50 inches.

Rods aren't designed and built like they used to be. JMHO C2


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## toejam (Jan 28, 2005)

Some very good points C2, Sgt,,,, I have found that the lowrider system doesn't necessarily have to be built with low rider guides as long as you follow the core concept of the lowrider system. On my newest production rod I have used Fuji's new Silicon Nitride HB series guide for a stripper. Its shape and strength provides a more efficient way of handling the " line blow by" when using the rod as a spinner while providing a for a closer line to rod placement when using the rod as a casting rod. 












W T McLennan (aka toejam)
[email protected]
256-776-4273


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

Back when I built my 1507 I did a ton of test casting and the gatherer finished up at 53" from the stem. The line dispensing on the Basia is aggressive and anything closer resulted in blow-by.

Those HB's are sweet but I don't think the regular Lowriders have any strength deficiency that would demand their use. The height difference I guess could be an issue.

Been playing around with single foots out on the upper section on the lighter actioned rods, their actions seem to be quieted with the long footprint of the Lowriders.


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