# Hook size when fishing heads?



## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

I for the most fish 8 circles exclusively while fishing for drum or stripers...

I do seem to lose more fish while fishing a head then opposed to a chunk, although sometimes I get lucky...

The hook is always placed through the nose/lips and is very exposed IMO...

I am thinking of going to a 14 circle while fishing heads.

2 Cents?


----------



## Tacpayne (Dec 20, 2008)

I use 10/0 circles, but more importantly what type circle are you using?


----------



## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

Tacpayne said:


> I use 10/0 circles, but more importantly what type circle are you using?


I knew someone was gonna ask this and I do not want to get into J's verses Circles... 

Gamakatsu 8/0 Octopus


----------



## gilly21 (Feb 15, 2006)

I will start out by saying that Gami Octo Circles suck! 

Switch to a nautilus style circle like a eagle claw circle, mutu circle, etc. They have a secondary bend before the turn in towards the shaft. All hook manufactures use different determinations on placing a size on the hook. There is no standard. 

Up your size on hooks so the hook is exposed and your hookups should increase.


----------



## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

Can't complain here about the hook up ratio here with the Gami's and the size I have been using.

Heads though, the jury is still out and I think I need to up size.

The hook is exposed and when hooked it just seems like I'll lose them in the wash as opposed to not to when using a chunk.

I do not want to go to big where I am losing my bait to the unknown, that really pisses me off


----------



## sunburntspike (Oct 4, 2010)

bury the hook with the tip just exposed,sounds to me like the whole circle is not getting in the mouth,just my .02


----------



## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

sunburntspike said:


> bury the hook with the tip just exposed,sounds to me like the whole circle is not getting in the mouth,just my .02


That's the part that plagues me, I have to be hooked up pretty good to get them to the wash I would think? and that would be the only time where there is greater chance of slack in the line...

Is it possible with this tad bit of slack and a big bouncy head bouncing around like a sinker that the head/hook size is the cause of becoming unbuttoned? Would a larger hook size help?

Trying to splain my feeling here, bare with me... lol


----------



## jmadre (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm guessing you're using offset hooks. The offset hook has a tendency to barely set into the inner cheek instead of through the lip. The pressure slackens in the wash and it falls out.

I've bent the offset out of mine, but IIRC, Gami has the same hook without an offset.

Added: Gami non-offset Octopus 8/0 is SKU#: 221418


----------



## mahimarauder (Jul 8, 2011)

I would agree with everybody else, the Gami Octos are awful. I usually use 9/0 Mustad R39942NP-BN Demon Perfect Circles and have never had a problem with them coming unhooked, except for the random chomper blue that gets into the surf and acts like hes a large mouth! Typically, I dont use a circle smaller than an 9/0, and as big as a 14/0, when im fishing with heads for drum or otherwise.


----------



## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

mahimarauder said:


> I would agree with everybody else, the Gami Octos are awful. I usually use 9/0 Mustad R39942NP-BN Demon Perfect Circles and have never had a problem with them coming unhooked, except for the random chomper blue that gets into the surf and acts like hes a large mouth! Typically, I dont use a circle smaller than an 9/0, and as big as a 14/0, when im fishing with heads for drum or otherwise.


Why and when 14/0 ?


----------



## sunburntspike (Oct 4, 2010)

Chris_Worthington said:


> Why and when 14/0 ?


14/0 for "drum fishin"aka sharkin'


----------



## gilly21 (Feb 15, 2006)

Thats two people on here telling you gami Octos suck. I have lost too many fish in the wash just as you described. You might have a tendency to loose them while using heads, but you will loose them with chunks soon enough. Thats what they are good at, loosing fish in the wash. Good enough hooks boat side but not in the surf. If you want advice to keep a fish buttoned up in the wash with a noggin, change hooks not size. If you just want someone to justify your predetermined position then I will agree that if you you want a 14/0 to toss noggins because you are confident in that set up, you are right. Use what you are confident in. 14/0 is not too big for a puppy drum, but looks silly with a a finger mullet. I recommend you go with a 10/0 nautalis style circle hook. Works pretty good on the noggins I toss and get bit, 99%+ hook up. Pretty much the same on chunks. So it works for me. YMMV

Next time you loose your fish in the surf you will remember this thread. Just sayin....Get rid of those Gami Octos.


----------



## Tacpayne (Dec 20, 2008)

gilly21 said:


> I will start out by saying that Gami Octo Circles suck!
> 
> Switch to a nautilus style circle like a eagle claw circle, mutu circle, etc. They have a secondary bend before the turn in towards the shaft. All hook manufactures use different determinations on placing a size on the hook. There is no standard.
> 
> Up your size on hooks so the hook is exposed and your hookups should increase.


Thats why I wanted to know the brand, nothing to do with J's... I to had ton of fish come unbuttoned when I first started pounding the surf hard and first contracted the horrible virus of Drum fever. After many lost fish and countless hours of cussing and doing other unmentionables I finally had someone tell me to ditch the offset gamis. wouldnt you know my hook up ratios went way up, But as far as hooking up with drum...that took a little longer


----------



## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

gilly21 said:


> Thats two people on here telling you gami Octos suck. I have lost too many fish in the wash just as you described. You might have a tendency to loose them while using heads, but you will loose them with chunks soon enough. Thats what they are good at, loosing fish in the wash. Good enough hooks boat side but not in the surf. If you want advice to keep a fish buttoned up in the wash with a noggin, change hooks not size. If you just want someone to justify your predetermined position then I will agree that if you you want a 14/0 to toss noggins because you are confident in that set up, you are right. Use what you are confident in. 14/0 is not too big for a puppy drum, but looks silly with a a finger mullet. I recommend you go with a 10/0 nautalis style circle hook. Works pretty good on the noggins I toss and get bit, 99%+ hook up. Pretty much the same on chunks. So it works for me. YMMV
> 
> Next time you loose your fish in the surf you will remember this thread. Just sayin....Get rid of those Gami Octos.


Got it and it makes sense TY


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Chris_Worthington said:


> Got it and it makes sense TY


 I use j's for drum in the ocean,but if I was going to use a circle IT WOULD NOT BE A GAMI OFFSET CIRCLE!! Lost waaaay tooo many fish with that hook... Some folks swear by them,but saw too many guthooked fish that I HAD NEVER SEEN WITH A REGULAR J HOOK!!


----------



## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

I see No Offset in this hook >


----------



## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

Are we calling the eye of the hook as being Offset here?


----------



## Tacpayne (Dec 20, 2008)

No that is not an offset circle. The offset circle has the point of the hook offset from the shank not a lot its not inline with teh shank


----------



## dawgfsh (Mar 1, 2005)

Mustad demon 10/0 
Gami's drop way to many drum either right after hookup or in the wash !!


----------



## jakuka (Oct 12, 2009)

Offset circle. Both are the same, one is just rotated to make the angle visible.














I know of a guy who finds them easier to rig up wiggly live baits for finesse type presentations. Me personally I don't have a use for them and prefer inline.


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Chris_Worthington said:


> I see No Offset in this hook >
> 
> View attachment 9179


 All the octopus gamis I've seen were offset.. Or like jakuka said,different angle would tell.. Maybe they're making a different style now?? If so good on em,course the gap is still too wide to be a true circle... jmo hate'm..


----------



## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

jakuka said:


> Offset circle. Both are the same, one is just rotated to make the angle visible.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




put in vice and take off set out


----------



## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

here too....Ditched the gami's a long time ago. iused the eagle claw inline circle last year with good results. I fish a lot for a lot of different species anf the hooks I use now I also use bottom fishing and others offshore.


----------



## mahimarauder (Jul 8, 2011)

I have used both the offset and the inline circles. When i'm not sitting there watching my rod, and otherwise just listening out for the clicker while downing a few foamers, I like to use the offset. This buys you a little more time and IMHO you need to do less to actually hook up the fish. The offset also gives you a chance to hook smaller fish when using larger hooks (10/0 and above) as well as the occasional chomper blue fish which are notorious for stripping all the bait except for where the hook is. One downside to the offset hook is that its easier for skates and rays to get a hold of them. I have tried to combat this problem by putting the bait on a float that will keep it a couple feet off the bottom but as you all know, when the skates and rays are hungry, there isnt much you can do to keep them off the hook.


----------



## ncsharkman (Mar 12, 2011)

sunburntspike said:


> 14/0 for "drum fishin"aka sharkin'


 That would be "Guppy" busting, not "Sharkin" Sprocket! We don't condone Sharking at the "Bar" and dance club!


----------



## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

They are inline hooks with the only thing being offset being the eye of the hook.

They do seem more like a half breed being 1/2 circle and half "J" to me and I have never had an issue with them except for the heads.

Typically I prefer the Mustads as do most of us evidently, but decided to give these a try due to the cost being lower last fall and this spring.

So much for trying to save a buck


----------



## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

Okay one more dumb question prior to trashing these things....

The eye "is" offset

What effect does this give?

I use wire leader crimped btw


----------



## rocket (Dec 1, 2008)

Nobody is going to defend the Gamis? I'm sure I have caught far less drum than some of the others posting their opinions but I've never had a problem with them. Not sure if the ones I've been using are offset though. I will check when I get home.


----------



## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

Since using these since last fall I have landed around 6 large drum and gobs of large stripers.

Every last time with a head..... poof gone.... 97% of the time in the wash and I do not remember every losing one that was "hooked" on a chunk.

I guess the hook has a fubar, but I would like to know about the offset eye and the effect of


----------



## mahimarauder (Jul 8, 2011)

If you are referring to the "offset eye" being that it is angled backwards, its so it can be snelled easily through the eye of the hook


----------



## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

mahimarauder said:


> If you are referring to the "offset eye" being that it is angled backwards, its so it can be snelled easily through the eye of the hook


That's what I am thinking as well....

But...

What if a wire leader is used, meaning a small loop?

And whats the difference between snelling a straight eye verses an offset eye?

Besides being easier to tie a snell any performance changes ??


----------



## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

"If" I apply force in a straight line with the offset eye tied on with a loop I end up, around the tip/barb?

"If" the eye was straight and the same force was applied would not the straight line be more towards the bottom of the hook?

Yes I am over thinking this, but now I want to know, lol


----------



## cooper138 (Aug 8, 2012)

Chris_Worthington said:


> That's what I am thinking as well....
> 
> But...
> 
> ...


I've always wondered if there was a difference on the straight eye vs offset. ive always snelled fishfinder type rigs so ive always looked for an inline hook with the offset eye. anyone have any opinion on snelling a straight eye? would love to hear an opinion on this in relation to circle hooks. or an opinion on snelling a straight eye by first going through the front or the back. sorry to thread steal but im going off your question chris. Thanks


----------



## cooper138 (Aug 8, 2012)

Chris_Worthington said:


> "If" I apply force in a straight line with the offset eye tied on with a loop I end up, around the tip/barb?
> 
> "If" the eye was straight and the same force was applied would not the straight line be more towards the bottom of the hook?
> 
> Yes I am over thinking this, but now I want to know, lol


 im really glad you asked this cause ive always wondered


----------



## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

cooper138 said:


> I've always wondered if there was a difference on the straight eye vs offset. ive always snelled fishfinder type rigs so ive always looked for an inline hook with the offset eye. anyone have any opinion on snelling a straight eye? would love to hear an opinion on this in relation to circle hooks. or an opinion on snelling a straight eye by first going through the front or the back. sorry to thread steal but im going off your question chris. Thanks


That's kewl because that was going to be my next question anyways and why


----------



## mahimarauder (Jul 8, 2011)

this is going to be my opinion based on what ive seen and experienced. others may think differently.

As far as applying pressure to the line hooked to an offset eye versus an inline eye, there shouldnt be any difference. Think about this....when a fish picks up your bait, and when i say pick it up, im talking to a point of becoming hooked and not just playing with it, it will be swimming with it with most if not all of the bait in its mouth. the design of the circle hook is to reduce the occurrence of fish getting gut hooked, thus the point of the hook facing back towards the shank. When you begin to apply resistance against the line, the hook will move from the rear of the fishs throat as he is trying to swallow it up towards his mouth. Once the hook reaches the fishs mouth, the angle of the line coming in a direction that is not parallel to the fish will cause the hook to slightly as it begins to catch the lip and move to the corner of the mouth. This rotation in the hook is solely dependent on the design of the circle part and not so much on the eye. IMHO, the angle of attachment of the eye has nothing to do with how much pressure you are putting on the fish or exactly which part of the hook the energy is transferred to. 

Something else to think about.....the knot that you tie, or the loop that you crimp in your situation, is not stationary. The angle of attachment to the hook will change depending on the fish's movement and based on the angle between you and the fish. 

cooper138: i have tied snells to J hooks and circle hooks alike that have inline eyes. Remember, your main line does not have to actually go through the eye of the hook if you dont want it to. personally, i feel like if you run it through the eye, either from the front or the back, it puts a lot of strain at the place where the line touches the eye and is wiggled back and forth on that same spot during a fight with a fish.


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

mahimarauder said:


> this is going to be my opinion based on what ive seen and experienced. others may think differently.
> 
> As far as applying pressure to the line hooked to an offset eye versus an inline eye, there shouldnt be any difference. Think about this....when a fish picks up your bait, and when i say pick it up, im talking to a point of becoming hooked and not just playing with it, it will be swimming with it with most if not all of the bait in its mouth. the design of the circle hook is to reduce the occurrence of fish getting gut hooked, thus the point of the hook facing back towards the shank. When you begin to apply resistance against the line, the hook will move from the rear of the fishs throat as he is trying to swallow it up towards his mouth. Once the hook reaches the fishs mouth, the angle of the line coming in a direction that is not parallel to the fish will cause the hook to slightly as it begins to catch the lip and move to the corner of the mouth. This rotation in the hook is solely dependent on the design of the circle part and not so much on the eye. IMHO, the angle of attachment of the eye has nothing to do with how much pressure you are putting on the fish or exactly which part of the hook the energy is transferred to.
> 
> ...


 Most longliners,using circles crimp it at the top on a straight eye hook,and yes,it swivels.. Absolutely correct on the way a circle hook is designed to hook a fish.. However,if it is an offset or gap is too wide,additional guthooking,as well as loosing the fish during the fight.. Many friends of mine snell straight eyed hooks,in such a way as to make the hook turn towards the fish.. Some that I know leave a loop at the top,similar to the way a longliner would.. Both groups seem to have success at it,so I say go for it.. With a straight eyed hook,I have always just tied a nailknot or palamar straight to the eye of the hook.. Have caught plenty of fish that way,and as of yet never had one chaff the leader where the hook was attached.. Tying it inline with a nailknot would work out fine. Both methods are what I use because I feel that is the way the hook was designed in the first place (to be pulled straight against the fish,with no swiveling or snelled to pull at an angle) but that is just me..

Ryan brought up a GREAT HOOK.. The eagle claw hook is an excellent circle hook.. I use this hooks for pups all the time with excellent success. No guthooks or mysterious pulloffs during the fight.. If forced to go away from j's it will be my hook of choice for big drum then.. Although,have only guthooked one big drum with a j in 35plus years of fishing for them.. With the gami offset that I experimented with for one year,guthooked two,and lost A BUNCH! 

Chris,as far as you problem being just heads,I think you will find it comes unbuttoned with both heads and bodies.. I do have friends that swear by a gami though,and they catch the heck outta some fish.. To each his or her own... jmho...


----------



## offroad (Sep 16, 2011)




----------



## offroad (Sep 16, 2011)

*tying versus snelling*


----------



## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

offroad said:


>


30% due to a knot, now that tells me an offset eye has to play a factor.

Does anyone know the number to a hook manufacture that answers technical question ?? LMAO !!


----------



## mahimarauder (Jul 8, 2011)

Google


----------



## cooper138 (Aug 8, 2012)

mahimarauder said:


> this is going to be my opinion based on what ive seen and experienced. others may think differently.
> 
> As far as applying pressure to the line hooked to an offset eye versus an inline eye, there shouldnt be any difference. Think about this....when a fish picks up your bait, and when i say pick it up, im talking to a point of becoming hooked and not just playing with it, it will be swimming with it with most if not all of the bait in its mouth. the design of the circle hook is to reduce the occurrence of fish getting gut hooked, thus the point of the hook facing back towards the shank. When you begin to apply resistance against the line, the hook will move from the rear of the fishs throat as he is trying to swallow it up towards his mouth. Once the hook reaches the fishs mouth, the angle of the line coming in a direction that is not parallel to the fish will cause the hook to slightly as it begins to catch the lip and move to the corner of the mouth. This rotation in the hook is solely dependent on the design of the circle part and not so much on the eye. IMHO, the angle of attachment of the eye has nothing to do with how much pressure you are putting on the fish or exactly which part of the hook the energy is transferred to.
> 
> ...


mahi i did notice what you are describing about the the line straining at the eye contact. i did some scientific research one rainy day and by scientific i mean popping some cold ones and watching football. I was practicing various snells and notice one common variable in them all. I was using 20# and tying into a 7/0 offset eye circle, normally this would be a 50 or higher shock but i was just palying around. Anyhow the common thing between all knots is when i applied enough force to break the line it broke in the excact same place everytime, right where the line passes through the eye. On the larger hooks it seems where the eye is forged the end of the eye where the hook is "cut" leaves a sharp edge on the metal this broke the line every time. im not sure if this would be the case for larger lines (shock). The fix would seem to be what you suggest and not go through the eye. Ive never done this does anyone know the strength or the quality of not snelling through the eye? When using a ff rig i usually am tying a 3 or 4 turn because i have a tough time tying 60-80 mono. Any advice?


----------



## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

Borrowed a Gami 9/0 J from Big George one day after I had a bite off, Tied it on, Hooked up and Proceeded to break the hook at the barb in the Drums Head(Just a little further up the shank) needless to say never used a Gami again.. I had two hooks I would Use when I was Drum fishing regardless of if I was throwin heads or little pieces of Tuna Belly... Just depended if I wanted to Stick One or Just Crank on them. My Circle was a Owner 10/0 SSW, My J was a VMC Stainless 9/0 J ... IMHO there are no better hooks then these... Both Snelled with a Nail Knot Snell.... Had a Run of 37 Citation Drum without a Breakoof or a PullOff... That Spanned a Season of one Spring one Fall then the following Spring.. Was 06.... Just used the Owners in That Streak....
JAM


----------



## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

JAM I value your opinion a bunch...

Your 2 cents on an offset eye verses a straight eye is ?


----------



## cooper138 (Aug 8, 2012)

JAM do you bend the offset out of your SSWs? i had some before and they had a slight offset or are they available in a non-offset?


----------



## cooper138 (Aug 8, 2012)

Chris_Worthington said:


> JAM I value your opinion a bunch...
> 
> Your 2 cents on an offset eye verses a straight eye is ?


 ah you beat me to it, i def respect his opinion


----------



## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

Chris_Worthington said:


> JAM I value your opinion a bunch...
> 
> Your 2 cents on an offset eye verses a straight eye is ?


Offset Eye on both J and Circle.. JAM


----------



## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

cooper138 said:


> JAM do you bend the offset out of your SSWs? i had some before and they had a slight offset or are they available in a non-offset?


Nah I leave it in its only off by like 3 degrees.. Matter of fact, before using the Owners, I used to use Mustad's, and I would put a Bend in them.. To offset them. No science behind it its just easier to get bait on the off set hook.. JAM


----------



## dchfm123 (Jun 11, 2011)

Make sure that when you hook the fish head that you do not hook it through the lips, jaw, eye sockets or any other boney part. You can get away with it using j hooks because they will snagg anywhere the tip of the hook touches. When fishing the circle hook you need it free from the bait as its passing through the fishes mouth and over the jaw. If its not free from the bait the bait will open the fishes lips or cause the hook to miss the jaw as it passes through the mouth. So try hooling the fish head in a meaty part that the hook can tear free of as you apply pressure to the fish or as it pulls away on the weight. I guarantee you will get 100 percent more hookups. A lot of times the fishs mouth is not much bigger than the bait and when your dragging the bait back through the fishs mouth it almost completely prevents the circle hook from finding its mark. Also like said above make sure you are not setting the hook like you would with a J hook. Just slowly apply pressure and it will drive the hook home.


----------



## cooper138 (Aug 8, 2012)

JAM, usually a mustad guy but maybe I'll pick up some ssws, can't hurt usually see them for $6 a 3 pack for the larger sizes. Trust yor advice thanks for the words.


----------



## cooper138 (Aug 8, 2012)

Dch, Never thought of the whole hooking through the bony sections being a problem before. I've always hooked through the nose or through the eyes on small bunker or finger mullet. It makes sense what your saying though. Guess I always thought going through the nose or eyes kept it on longer when blues are around, I'm my head it always seem to be more aerodynamic which is prob nonsense in the long run.


----------



## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

Thanks for your kind words Cooper138.... Anytime... 

JAM


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

gilly21 said:


> I will start out by saying that Gami Octo Circles suck!
> 
> Switch to a nautilus style circle like a eagle claw circle, mutu circle, etc. They have a secondary bend before the turn in towards the shaft. All hook manufactures use different determinations on placing a size on the hook. There is no standard.
> 
> Up your size on hooks so the hook is exposed and your hookups should increase.


Some good advice,imo..



jmadre said:


> I'm guessing you're using offset hooks. The offset hook has a tendency to barely set into the inner cheek instead of through the lip. The pressure slackens in the wash and it falls out.
> 
> 
> I've bent the offset out of mine, but IIRC, Gami has the same hook without an offset.
> ...


 Us olefawts haven't seen the newer model hook.. They did good in taking out the offset,although they still have the wide gap,as mustad,eagle claw,and a host of other "true circlehooks" do not have that wide gap..



gilly21 said:


> Thats two people on here telling you gami Octos suck. I have lost too many fish in the wash just as you described. You might have a tendency to loose them while using heads, but you will loose them with chunks soon enough. Thats what they are good at, loosing fish in the wash. Good enough hooks boat side but not in the surf. If you want advice to keep a fish buttoned up in the wash with a noggin, change hooks not size. If you just want someone to justify your predetermined position then I will agree that if you you want a 14/0 to toss noggins because you are confident in that set up, you are right. Use what you are confident in. 14/0 is not too big for a puppy drum, but looks silly with a a finger mullet. I recommend you go with a 10/0 nautalis style circle hook. Works pretty good on the noggins I toss and get bit, 99%+ hook up. Pretty much the same on chunks. So it works for me. YMMV
> 
> Next time you loose your fish in the surf you will remember this thread. Just sayin....Get rid of those Gami Octos.


Yeap,Gilly if I were a circlehook guy eagle claw would be my choice,have used it when catching pups,stripers (when you could actually catch one in the surf or on a pier here) all sorts of bottomfish on wrecks,it's a great hook.. And there is more than two that will say gami circles suck...



dawgfsh said:


> Mustad demon 10/0
> Gami's drop way to many drum either right after hookup or in the wash !!


You're an oleguy,Don,youngens have it all over us... 



Ryan Y said:


> here too....Ditched the gami's a long time ago. iused the eagle claw inline circle last year with good results. I fish a lot for a lot of different species anf the hooks I use now I also use bottom fishing and others offshore.


 This coming from someone that caught waaay over double digits in the surf one night... 



rocket said:


> Nobody is going to defend the Gamis? I'm sure I have caught far less drum than some of the others posting their opinions but I've never had a problem with them. Not sure if the ones I've been using are offset though. I will check when I get home.


 I have two friends of mine that are well respected drummers,and catch as many or more drum than 99.99% do.. One caught more drum this past year off the beaches and the planks than any drummer I know.. Yes,they are using imho,an inferior hook,but they catch the snot out of them.. So,if ya like em and having success with those hooks,keep on keep'n on... 



offroad said:


>


 Just talked to a couple of folks that longline,and they use a free swinging hook.. Nice to see that New Zealanders have it scientifically figured.. Run through the eye and snell the shank so that circle hook turns inward will increase hookup ratio.. Good piece of advice for those that like a hook to freeswing or tie direct onto eye on a straight eyed hook.. 



JAM said:


> Borrowed a Gami 9/0 J from Big George one day after I had a bite off, Tied it on, Hooked up and Proceeded to break the hook at the barb in the Drums Head(Just a little further up the shank) needless to say never used a Gami again.. I had two hooks I would Use when I was Drum fishing regardless of if I was throwin heads or little pieces of Tuna Belly... Just depended if I wanted to Stick One or Just Crank on them. My Circle was a Owner 10/0 SSW, My J was a VMC Stainless 9/0 J ... IMHO there are no better hooks then these... Both Snelled with a Nail Knot Snell.... Had a Run of 37 Citation Drum without a Breakoof or a PullOff... That Spanned a Season of one Spring one Fall then the following Spring.. Was 06.... Just used the Owners in That Streak....
> JAM


 Jam,I've never seen a gami break,although totally believe that they could.. Believe it or not,used vmc circles a few years back for stripers. The hook was a great hook for keeping fish on,and have always trusted vmc as a quality hook.. Had one break in the curve of the hook while tieing a nailknot snell and pulling it tight.. Just chalked it up as one bad one in the batch.. Will still use them,and hope I'm right there... That is mainly because,I use gami 10/0 j's when I big drum fish.. lol Caught as many as 53 big ones one particular year,all on j's,but it was the old mustad 9/0 j's..The ones that the tips rust and breakoff at the end,thus the switch to gami j...



dchfm123 said:


> Make sure that when you hook the fish head that you do not hook it through the lips, jaw, eye sockets or any other boney part. You can get away with it using j hooks because they will snagg anywhere the tip of the hook touches. When fishing the circle hook you need it free from the bait as its passing through the fishes mouth and over the jaw. If its not free from the bait the bait will open the fishes lips or cause the hook to miss the jaw as it passes through the mouth. So try hooling the fish head in a meaty part that the hook can tear free of as you apply pressure to the fish or as it pulls away on the weight. I guarantee you will get 100 percent more hookups. A lot of times the fishs mouth is not much bigger than the bait and when your dragging the bait back through the fishs mouth it almost completely prevents the circle hook from finding its mark. Also like said above make sure you are not setting the hook like you would with a J hook. Just slowly apply pressure and it will drive the hook home.


Think you could probably get the same result with heads if you don't hook too deep into the nose so the bend can work it's magic as a circlehook should.. If you have ever seen a drum eat a flounder or a smooth dogfish in real life and time,you would know they are capable of sucking down that bait next to their crushers before you even get tension on the line.. Biggest problem I have found is that even if you do not hook the bait too deep,when that fish sucks it down the bait can overlap the hookpoint.. Mainly on big chunks,but have seen this happen manytimes on a headbait as well...


----------



## bstarling (Apr 24, 2005)

DD said: "Think you could probably get the same result with heads if you don't hook too deep into the nose so the bend can work it's magic as a circlehook should.. If you have ever seen a drum eat a flounder or a smooth dogfish in real life and time,you would know they are capable of sucking down that bait next to their crushers before you even get tension on the line.. Biggest problem I have found is that even if you do not hook the bait too deep,when that fish sucks it down the bait can overlap the hookpoint.. Mainly on big chunks,but have seen this happen manytimes on a headbait as well..."

I agree entirely. If the hook gets buried in the bait none of them will work. Have used 8/0 Eagle Claw circles without the offset and seem to have a high hook up rate. Always prefer a head and always use the through the bottom jaw in through the nose out arrangement. My problem is not being able to hit the big distances some of my compadres do, thus often don't get the number of hits. Distance does matter on the OBX.


Bill


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

bstarling said:


> DD said: "Think you could probably get the same result with heads if you don't hook too deep into the nose so the bend can work it's magic as a circlehook should.. If you have ever seen a drum eat a flounder or a smooth dogfish in real life and time,you would know they are capable of sucking down that bait next to their crushers before you even get tension on the line.. Biggest problem I have found is that even if you do not hook the bait too deep,when that fish sucks it down the bait can overlap the hookpoint.. Mainly on big chunks,but have seen this happen manytimes on a headbait as well..."
> 
> I agree entirely. If the hook gets buried in the bait none of them will work. Have used 8/0 Eagle Claw circles without the offset and seem to have a high hook up rate. Always prefer a head and always use the through the bottom jaw in through the nose out arrangement. My problem is not being able to hit the big distances some of my compadres do, thus often don't get the number of hits. Distance does matter on the OBX.
> 
> ...


 Yeap,and with a bunker noggin ya ain't going to get much distance.. Especially if you hook it through the fleshy part.... jmo...


----------



## gilly21 (Feb 15, 2006)

offroad said:


>


The above is a Nautilus style hook = Preferred and less likely to loose a fish in the wash or other for that matter

Below is a Gami Octo Circle....Can you see the difference in design. Any hook designed like the gami will cost you fish. To me that is the same as the Owner SSW. I will only use these hooks when fishing from an elevated surface such as boat or kayak, etc. 










While hooking heads just catch enough skull to kjeep the bait on for the cast, jaw up through the skull or vice versa. Any other way will cost you distance and hookups. The jaw will drop open after sitting in the water and current and spin, or whatever and make it look unnatural as can be. Also can cause the hook to rotate back into the bait and cause the hook to not perform as designed.

As far as snelling a straight shank or tieing to the eye only, well I do both. I have experimented with both. I have not noticed a difference. What I do notice is the wear on the leader after a few casts. I use a cannon ball 90% of the time. The pressure of the weight during cast and retrieve cause a 90 deg pinch at the connection. I use one bead between the weight and the hook eye. Keep your eye on the wear and you should be ok. But I have had times where my 100 is near cut through after a couple hours of fishing. 

I dont have any drum catching records or anything, but I have caught my share of 40+. I have used what my experiences are to maximize my success. You may have more time to find out what works best for you, like DD, JAM, bsarlings and others on here who can go pretty much whenever, and have ALOT more years on me. My suggested course of action is what IO did for a while. Fish one rod with what you do now and what you want to test/experiment on your own doing, and one rod using one of the methods being suggested by the guys on here who catch a load of fish. Continue doing this until you have found the method that you feel 100% confident in every single time you cast into he pond. It never hurts to continue experimenting new things after you achieve the confidence you NEED to be successful. That is how you get better. One thing I can say for certain...If you are questioning your knot, your hook, that slightly funny feeling in your line you felt as you reeled in last time, you already know you have a problem. Fix it or you will loose a fish. I lost my first fish of this year because after 4 days and nights of hard fishing and nothing to show I was too damn lazy to restring at 10PM after feeling a small fray. Then 30 minutes later I watched a GIRL....Yes a freaking GIRL catch one right next to me . You must trust what you are doing and have the discipline to fix it if you feel its wrong.


----------



## bstarling (Apr 24, 2005)

LOL! That girl is dangerous. Did she beat Sam on the catching Gilly? I hope so 

Bill


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Bill you need to make it down here one more time.. If for no other reason than to see how your "student",Tater is casting now... I think you will be impressed..


----------



## bstarling (Apr 24, 2005)

Drumdum said:


> Bill you need to make it down here one more time.. If for no other reason than to see how your "student",Tater is casting now... I think you will be impressed..


DD that sounds like a plan in the making. I'll bet that boy is whackin it right on out there now. Just glad I had the chance to work with him a bit that freezin azz day on the pier. You ever hear anything from Rodwatcher ?


Bill


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

bstarling said:


> DD that sounds like a plan in the making. I'll bet that boy is whackin it right on out there now. Just glad I had the chance to work with him a bit that freezin azz day on the pier. You ever hear anything from Rodwatcher ?
> 
> 
> Bill


 Yeap,he's wing'n it for sure,think you would be impressed.. Rodwatcher is watching in on his mother often,and is dabbling in playing blues,country,and bluegrass.. No doubt he will make an appearance down here soon...


----------



## gilly21 (Feb 15, 2006)

bstarling said:


> LOL! That girl is dangerous. Did she beat Sam on the catching Gilly? I hope so
> 
> Bill


She beat us all. She was the only one. The only other drum bite was the one I broke off. Mine bit on the last sea mullet noggin I found in the bottom of Sams cooler while cleaning toads. Thought it was a forgotten gem. That was until Sam came around with a bloody knife asking if anyone saw his mullet he had stashed. 

Looking back I should stayed 3 more days because it got RIGHT! Hope you can make the Oct. trip this year.


----------



## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

Yea DD those Double Digit nights were ligit. My elbos hurt after it. But those hooks are decent for about anything Ive caught. Now they are f-ing the placde up wqith extra sand.


----------



## bstarling (Apr 24, 2005)

gilly21 said:


> She beat us all. She was the only one. The only other drum bite was the one I broke off. Mine bit on the last sea mullet noggin I found in the bottom of Sams cooler while cleaning toads. Thought it was a forgotten gem. That was until Sam came around with a bloody knife asking if anyone saw his mullet he had stashed.
> 
> Looking back I should stayed 3 more days because it got RIGHT! Hope you can make the Oct. trip this year.


I would have paid $$ to see Sam pissed. Lord have mercy! I'm in much better shape this year than last Steve and I have every intention of making the Oct trip this year. Gshivar and I are heading out to Ocoke in the morning for a few days of getting rained on and blown away. Come on over if you can.

Bill


----------

