# Shock Leader



## fishinyank (Mar 28, 2006)

I'm farily new to surf fishing and very new to the distance casting aspect of it. My question is if I'm using 50# braid for line (power pro-12# dia) and throwing 3-5oz sinkers, do I need a shock leader. If so whats a good knot to tie a mono leader to braid, and then braid to a mono backing


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## Otter (Jun 18, 2004)

You won't need a shocker if you have 50lb braided main line.


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*Everybody has a different view on this subject*

but I most will tell you always use a shock leader.

Some general rules to follow:

* 10lb for every oz of lead

* 4-5 wraps around spool threw the eyes to the tip and back down to reel; for example on a 12' rod you might to close to 26' of shock leader

* mono shock leader is easier on the finger when casting a spinning reel

* if your looking to enter distance casting tourney's, you must use a shock leader of a specific diameter and color and your main line must be mono and also of a specific diameter based on the weight of the lead.

* mono shocker is easier to grab when beaching a big fish in the surf


Just my 5¢.


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## Otter (Jun 18, 2004)

*Well, my .10*

There is NO way he's going to snap 50lb PP with his cast. Tying on a leader is only going to increase his chances of losing a fish to a failed knot.


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

Here's my $1.00 advice.

You are right he won't snap that 50 pp. But is that always a good thing?? What if the bail closes ... and that shock does not snap  .... it's lights out gracie!

If you are all alone on the beach then go for it. If you are on a crowded pier ... give the guy next to you a chance. Most of us are good casters but its not always perfect.


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*No one said he was going to snap the PP*

He asked about adding a shock leader up front and adding mono for backing. Which I forgot to addresses and everyone else so far.

Just enough mono backing, a layer or 2. PP should come with a knot booklet showing some knot to use.


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

Orest ... I was replying to Otters post ... not yours

read this first and then what I said and I think you will see where I am coming from.



Otter said:


> There is NO way he's going to snap 50lb PP with his cast. Tying on a leader is only going to increase his chances of losing a fish to a failed knot.


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*I was referring to Otter*

I should have of been more direct. Sorry.


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## Otter (Jun 18, 2004)

*always have to make things so complicated....*



fishinyank said:


> My question is if I'm using 50# braid for line (power pro-12# dia) and throwing 3-5oz sinkers, do I need a shock leader.


no


fishinyank said:


> If so whats a good knot to tie a mono leader to braid, and then braid to a mono backing


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

Otter is right. You don't need a shockleader when you're using 50lb PP casting 3-5oz lead. As for landing or beaching a fish, 50lb PP will lift most fish out of the water or pull up the beach, if bigger use a net. I don't like people grabbing my leader when I'm waiting for the wave to push the fish in. I've seen quite a few fish spitting hooks when someone grab the leader and pull them ashore.


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## Lipyourown (May 11, 2005)

The 50# PP won't break itself but it will break your rod in half when you really start to put some arse into it. With your set up I'd go 40-50# mono using Otter's knots.


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## chris storrs (Aug 25, 2005)

if ur using a spinner and no mono shock better wrap up that finger or wear a glove...u will get cut bad eventually if u dont


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

you dont need it, per say, but i would use it and heres why.

1. braid is horribly abrasion retarded. rocks, sand, etc, shells etc will knock the piss off of braid. if u get knicks and cast 6oz with any azz behind it, you WILL snap it.

2. you will eventually keep having to trim back the last few feet of braid while fishing, thats goign to add up, bc as long as its not abraded, you can use braid over and over and over.

3. landing fish, at some point you might catch something when grabbing the leader will help. you will want a leader when doing this.

4. You will not break your rod unless you have a wallmart rod or unless your drag on your reel is locked up. most reels will only entertain a certain amount of pressure, and it aint close to 50lbs...

5. when using a knot, a bimmini to a double uni or knail will work fine. if your using 50lb braid, the no-name will work fine to, but the thing is make sure you pull your line ESPECIALLY tight when setting teh knots, the braid should look almost back from fitting itself in.


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

If your gonna use a shock leader the only knot you need to tie is the double uni knot.


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## fishinyank (Mar 28, 2006)

Thanks guys- I appreciate the guidance- By the way can I put more mono backing than just a few layers? I ask this because the reel I'm using holds 390 yds 12# dia. I have 300 yds of power pro, and I'm wondering if I can use the remaining 90yds of space with mono backing. I'm planning on targeting 5ft plus sharks in the surf with this rig and I want all the line I can get. Thanks


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## derekxec (Apr 26, 2006)

you dont need a shock leader...

i dont know if anyone else realises this but with pp if you give a really quick snap (let your line loose and give it a really hard snap tight) when you are stuck on something it will break most times but it has to be a pretty hard snap

i do this with 65# pp whenever i cant pull hard enough to get it off a rock or bend the hook etc etc and my friend does it with the 50#


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

derekxec said:


> you dont need a shock leader...
> 
> i dont know if anyone else realises this but with pp if you give a really quick snap (let your line loose and give it a really hard snap tight) when you are stuck on something it will break most times but it has to be a pretty hard snap
> 
> i do this with 65# pp whenever i cant pull hard enough to get it off a rock or bend the hook etc etc and my friend does it with the 50#


If ya dont use a shock ya better use gloves. Ya ever try to leader a big fish with braid?


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*power pro*

I have found that power pro in the small sizes like 20 lb test digs into itself on a hard fast run. It also digs into itself on a hard cast. Either way it adds up to a broken line. I use power pro for stripers with metal up to three oz but that is it. Five or six oz will dig into itself on the cast without a shock leader. If you have a reel that will hold 300 yards of 17 lb mono. that is what I would use. I don't think you are casting over a hundred yards with a shark size bait and that leaves 200 yards to fight a fish with. I think you should use 40 lb. shock for 5 oz.I would use about 20 ft and about three ft. of 100 lb. on the end.I don't really like power pro for big fish.


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## fishinyank (Mar 28, 2006)

well I've heard good things about pp so I thought Id try it out, I normally use mono but I thought I'd give this a try. If I have any kind of problens or if just dont like it Ill try something else. You got to experiment- thanks alot guys.


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## derekxec (Apr 26, 2006)

all the time...if you wrap it around your whole hand or arm instead of just your finger it wont cut you...at least it hasnt me once in 3 years

also about the line digging into itself...spool it on tight and you wont have that problem..i use pp from 10# test up to 150# test and dont have a problem with any of it digging in unless i spool it loose


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## fishinyank (Mar 28, 2006)

so to sum up-
I dont need to use a shock leader but Ill probably want a glove to cast. Double uni knot if I do use one.

There is one question- I want to use about 90yds of mono as a backing(I have 300 yds pp, reel willhold 390) because I want all the line I can get- will the pp cut into/get buried in the mono if I actually fight a shark to that point? I suppose If this shark already took 300yds itll probably spool me, bu just in case.


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*I would pay*

To see you wrap power pro around your arm and land a big fish in the surf. A big Shark or Cobia would most likely deglove your arm with 150 lb power pro wrapped around it. I just hope no one actually is dumb enough to try it. That is the worst advice I have ever seen on this board, and that is saying a lot. The only thing that could top it would be if you told him to wrap it around his neck in case he falls asleep while he waits for a bite since his reel does not have a clicker to wake him up.


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## fishinyank (Mar 28, 2006)

OH...I was going to tro that pp-arm method, it sounded like a good idea...what was that about around your neck? Will that save ware and tear on my clicker?


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

surf rat said:


> To see you wrap power pro around your arm and land a big fish in the surf. A big Shark or Cobia would most likely deglove your arm with 150 lb power pro wrapped around it. I just hope no one actually is dumb enough to try it. That is the worst advice I have ever seen on this board, and that is saying a lot. The only thing that could top it would be if you told him to wrap it around his neck in case he falls asleep while he waits for a bite since his reel does not have a clicker to wake him up.



LMAO  ....betcha it would hurt on yer fighten rod even more?

Dave...hope ta see ya out soon....I may give them cobes a shot this summer...down South...how I hate the traffic


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## derekxec (Apr 26, 2006)

it doesnt cut ya when its wrapped around your whole hand lol i do it with 100+ lb tarpon


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## david123 (Jun 24, 2004)

*Leader*

Won't re-visit all the stated reasons about shock leaders, but they have some great points as to why you should use it with braid. I do for the following reasons

-Sometime, Somewhere you are gonna grab the leader when landing a big fish, or maybe your son or daughter or other companion will. If the fish gets a second wind, they are gonna get cut right to the bone.

-The Mate and Capt of the 6 man charter I use a couple times a year hates the stuff for the above reason.

As for loading the Backing, here's what I do so that you get the correct ammount on every single time. First Load the amount of line (Braid) on the reel...no need to tie it on the spool yet as it will be coming off. Tape will be just fine.

When you have your three hundred yards or whatever amount you decide to spool up, tie the end that is left to your backing with the double uni or albright or whatever you decide on. Spool on the backing until the reel is full to where it has to be. Now tie the backing to something and walk off the line completely from the spool, or spool it back onto a large empty spool. You may need to make several trips around your yard if you walk it off, in which case you may want to drive some plastic , smooth stakes in the yard and just walk around them. When the line comes off the spool, take the BACKING end and tie it on the spool in the manner which it was designed to be secured. Reel in the line and you have the perfect amount every time...no guessing. 

I always use some backing with braid as it tends to spin on the spool cause it's fine and slippery. Backing revents this , even if it's only a few layers on the spool.

Somebody might have a better method, but I haven't found it yet.
Good Luck!


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## terpfan (May 30, 2002)

actually 50# pp is fairly easy to break casting 5 oz weight, especially if it is old. from my experience i think if i cast 5oz weight with 50# power pro line, i'll probably break the line 1 out 3 cast. since pp does not stretch, i does not handle the shock of the cast as mono line does.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

david123 said:


> Won't re-visit all the stated reasons about shock leaders, but they have some great points as to why you should use it with braid. I do for the following reasons
> 
> -Sometime, Somewhere you are gonna grab the leader when landing a big fish, or maybe your son or daughter or other companion will. If the fish gets a second wind, they are gonna get cut right to the bone.
> 
> ...



try this You need three reels, start with the one you are going to use, put the braid on it.Now add the mono until full. Tie the mono to a second reel wind all line on the second reel. Tie the braid on the third reel and wind on line. Now you are ready to tie back to first reel. Tie mono on first reel and wind on. Takes a while, but you don't have to walk all over the yard. 

If you have two identical reels you only need to wind from the first reel to the second and you are ready to go.


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## david123 (Jun 24, 2004)

*backing*

Good Idea... Same principle....fill up backwards so you get the correct amount on w/o measuring or calculating spool capacity


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## Otter (Jun 18, 2004)

*seriously?*

I hope you guys are kidding with all of this. I must be lazy or something, but you're not gonna find me walking around my yard trailing 300 yards of line, or emptying three different reels to spool one.

Here's my method-

1) tie line to reel
2) turn handle
3) repeat


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## derekxec (Apr 26, 2006)

Surf Cat said:


> try this You need three reels, start with the one you are going to use, put the braid on it.Now add the mono until full. Tie the mono to a second reel wind all line on the second reel. Tie the braid on the third reel and wind on line. Now you are ready to tie back to first reel. Tie mono on first reel and wind on. Takes a while, but you don't have to walk all over the yard.
> 
> If you have two identical reels you only need to wind from the first reel to the second and you are ready to go.


my friend does that when the top line gets old he winds it on to another reel and uses it on that reel


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## david123 (Jun 24, 2004)

*lazy is as lazy does*

Otter-
Really doesn't take much time and it has the benefit of getting it right the first time....Spinners, especially, don't cast well if the spool isn't full. And you don't need to do this if you're spooling up with all mono from a bulk spool...only for braid with backing.


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## fishinyank (Mar 28, 2006)

What if I just counted the number of times on cranked on the mono backin. At 39 inches per crank, 90 yds X 36inches(a yd)=3240 inches divided by 39= 83 cranks roughly, call it 75 to 80 so you wont over do it. Sound good to you guys?


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## david123 (Jun 24, 2004)

If it works for you, then go for it. For me, I will still wind braid first then the backing. It really is a no guesswirk deal. It's perfect every time.


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

fishinyank the problem is the retrival rate varies alot with the amount of line that is on the spool. So until you count witha line counter it is guess work at best. Oh you will need more cranks do to amount of line on the spool.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*I'll Bite*

Have fun... What reel ya using for 50 # line.. A TLD 25???? 

JAM


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## Otter (Jun 18, 2004)

*Hey Forrest-*



david123 said:


> Lazy is as Lazy does


What doest that even mean? Seriously, I'm curious.


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## david123 (Jun 24, 2004)

Otter,

Beats the heck out of me....just seemed like a good idea at the time. My poor attempt at homor.


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## derekxec (Apr 26, 2006)

i use 65# test pp on my shimano cardiff 400 and 150# pp on my shimano trinidad TN30

both handle very well with that strength


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## jettypark28 (Jun 23, 2006)

*Shock again*

i been ask about "Shock leaders" so i thought i refresh this one again....it seen to have started a debate or two


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