# Winter Flounder II



## TKD

I was hoping someone could give me some ideas & techniques for catching winter flounder. I used to fish for them 30 years ago but don't remember how. I will be fishing the lower Chesapeake Bay and inlets in Virginia Beach. Have been told ther here but very few fisherman target them. That might be a plus for me. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
TKD


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## rockhead

good luck man I havent caught one since october, if you try use live minnows or strips of cut bait/squid


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## Duke of Fluke

If you really mean winter flounder, disregard everything rockhead said(no disrespect).

They are a different species than the flounder caught in the summer. Small bits of blood or sand worm, mussel, or clam on a small hook is the bait of choice. Fish areas with mud bottom. Chum heavily with mussels, clam, and corn. Stirring the bottom with an anchor or a long pole helps get them feeding. I did not know you could catch them as far south as the Chessie.


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## rockhead

no disrespect duke, but your chances of catching a flounder here are slim to none mainly none,on any baits. we basically have summer flounder here, our flounder move way off the coast in the cold months, in mid to late november you can get a good bite about 35 miles out on some of the local wrecks


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## jay b

TKD rocks right there is no winter fishery for flounder in the lower chesapeake. The fish here have a temperature range about the same as our trout,when it's gets below 50 you need to get your striper gear out until springtime when the water gets back up to about 55.They do spend the winter in the ocean so watch the ocean water for temp changes in the spring.


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## Manayunk Jake

Greetings All!

Winter Flounder (Blackbacks) are a seperate fish from Summer Flounder (Fluke). Winter Flounder are caught in the Chesapeake Bay. Last year about this time the MD DNR page featured an article about catching winter flounder in the Chesapeake. They are not as abundant as in New Jersey, since MD is the extreme southern end of their range. Duke of Fluke is dead on with methods for catching blackbacks. One trick I will add is to motor around and stir the bottom with a rake before setting up to fish (anchor up, do NOT drift!) Above the Mason-Dixon Line many fisherman use asphalt tampers, commonly called "flounder pounders" to attract the fish. Also try throwing a couple of cans of whole corn out there (just like carp fishing.) Many winter flounder sharpies paint their sinkers red or yellow to attract fish, and add red or yellow beads to their two hook "spreader" rigs. Hell, they even have rigs where the yellow beads are shaped like a kernel of corn. My favorite bait for blackbacks is a piece of sandworm, but bloodies will work, too. Edible mussels make a great bait. Blackbacks make great eating, and are usually sold under the name Lemon Sole. Winter Flounder actually hibernate in the mud during January and February, reemerging in March, then moving offshore in May.


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## Duke of Fluke

Rockhead,

Keep in mind, that we are not talking about the same species you target in summer. These fish have tiny mouths and do not get anywhere near as large as summer flounder. They could not eat a minnow and squid combo if they tried. Their mouth is about as big as a bluegills. Their migration pattern is the opposite of summer flounder. Offshore in warm months, inshore when it gets cold.

If Jake is right about them inhabiting the Chessie, you may consider giving them a try. They are easy to catch and great eating. The minimum size in NJ is only 10 inches, do not know about down south.

I wasn't attacking you bud, I just figured you like many folks further south did not know about blackbacks.


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## Duke of Fluke

http://www.gotosnapshot.com/winter_flounder/win_flounder_cat.html 

According to this, winter flounder range as far south as SC and GA. This includes the Chesapeake.


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## Manayunk Jake

Greetings Duke of Fluke!

Great pics on that site! Always wanted to dive and look at fish up close and personal, but have this thing about drowning....

NJ DF&W pushed the size limit up to 11 inches. There was a bit of controversey two years back when they switched from 10 to 10.5 inches midseason. Lots of guys were suddenly caught with "shorts" on the Shark and Manasquan Rivers. There's still no posession limit, and on a good day the "sharpies" can take two dozen keepers (that's a lot of fillets!)

Didn't you mention the Big Mohawk for tog? The Big Mohawk also does winter flounder trips in the spring when the blackbacks are running thick. I've seen her anchored up in the Manasquan near the mouth of the canal while fishing the canal for tog.

If I had to pick a possible hotspot for winter flounder in the Chesapeake, I'd go to the mouth of the Potomac in the section called The Cornfields. From what I've read, this area is a lot like Barnegat Bay, another NJ blackback hotspot.


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## TKD

Thanks for all the responses and tips. I have been told but have not confirmed yet that there are in fact Winter flounder (black backs) in these parts. I will try my best to find out for sure. I know there is no size or creel limits in these parts and that I would guess I can find plenty of mud flats to try. I used to fish for them in Raritan Bay off Staten Island NY. I remember that once you get them biting they come pretty easy. Thanks again for allyour help!
TKD


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## Duke of Fluke

TKD, 

I know all about the Raritan. The fishery there was really bad last year though. I grew up just accross the the Arthur Kill from SI in Woodbridge, NJ near the Outerbridge.

Jake,

Nice catch on the increased size limit. I have not fished for winter flounder in several years. I used to go all the time, but these days I am more interested wreck fishing during the cold months.

I bought a boat last year so I think I might get back into it. I have always done really well in Shark River. Spring and Fall are best, but you can get fish in the middle of winter too. Best bet is to wait until you have a couple warm days in a row and then fish shallow where the water is warmest. You might not kill em, but you will get a few. Come March I think I'll head up there. I'll let you know if you want to come.

Shark River is also about the best Fluke spot for a guy who has a small boat and can't go out in the open ocean. I have seen lots of doormats come out of there. I will definately bring the boat up for openning day. Heard it was crowded last year but the fishing was much better than the usual lumps and ridges tight to the beach. Only spots in the ocean that produced early were Manasquan and Barnegat ridges. Sure won't take my little boat out there!


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## rockhead

no offense taken, but take a word of advice from someone who had lived and fished in the Virginia Beach, Chesapeake bay area his whole life....they are not here! at least not in #'s worth trying for.if research proves they make it down to here (I mean near the mouth of the Chesapeake), then good but they are probably talking about a stray that got caught in a net.I worked for a couple of years w/ the vmrc here doing a research study on recreational fishing.. year round. all 4 seasons never saw one, and was told I probably never would by the people who had done it for many years. Im just saying if you come to this area this time of year, you should try for rocksish,tog,specs,seabass etc. but w/ winter flounder you just spinning your wheels..you would probably have better luck fishing for bluegill in the ocean.


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## Duke of Fluke

TKD,

Let us know how you make out.


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## Manayunk Jake

Greetings Duke of Fluke!

I'm not one to turn down a fishing trip. Give me a yell come March and we'll work out the specifics.

Greetings rockhead!

The MD DNR article was based on captures on the MD side in fike(?) nets. I know from reading that the MD side of the bay is generally more shallow than the VA side, so it just might be a matter of habitat. The DNR gave the impression that there are enough fish available to make it worthwhile to pursue them. Blackbacks are popular here in the North because they are the first edible fish you can catch in the spring from shore or in a small boat. Its a nice way to pass the time until the stripers follow the herring up the rivers for the spawn....


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## BigJeff823

I heared 3 years ago they caught some Winter Flounder on bloodworms in Eastern Bay.I would think they would have more of them in the costal bays of Mayland/Virginia.Maybe they like a swallow saltty bay like inside from Lynhaven Inlet.My section of the bay is deep too; 100ft of water or more. But I think that they would prefer the Virgina part of the bay because its saltier.The Barrier Island area would be even better because its swallower and salty like around Wachaprege(not spelled good).


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## rockhead

they are not in lynnhaven inlet this is 7 min from my house!


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## Duke of Fluke

I agree about the coastal bays.


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## BigJeff823

How do you know they wouln't be caught at the lower Chesapeake or any of the costal bays around Virginia Beach.If Winter Flounder can be caught up here I'm sure they can be caught down there.


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## TKD

I agree with HaPPyPapPy. I will give it my best shot to prove him and the rest of us who believe that we do have them down here that we are right. If worst comes to worst I will still enjoy myself in my boat with my little boy. And I hate to winterize my boat.
More on this in the future. 
TKD


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## rockhead

I hope you can prove me wrong... I just think the winter flounder is a northern thing. up there there is lots of talk about em, round here there unheard of. good luck


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## Hattersman

The Winter Flounder may be in the Northern reaches of the Chessie but, I have fished from VAB through SC and haven't seen one yet. I did fish them in NY, LI many years back and agree with the methods and bait but not with the fact that they are "in the Chessie", certainly not in the Southern space anyway.


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## Manayunk Jake

Greetings All!

When all else fails, call in the experts! Here ia a reprint of the Winter Flounder article provided by Angel Bolinger of MD DNR:

I have received a good number of emails requesting information on winter flounder, Pleuronectes americanus. Winter flounder are members of the family Pleuronectidae whereas summer flounder, Paralichthys denatus, are in the family Paralichthyidae. A few distinguishing characteristics of winter flounder include that they are righteyed, have a small head, small teeth, and a nearly straight lateral line. 

Recreational anglers in coastal areas along the Mid Atlantic and New England typically fish for this species. Although its not a well known recreational fishery in this area, we know winter flounder are present from previous yellow perch surveys where winter flounder were caught in fyke nets. Data from that survey suggests that the Wye East, Wye West, Choptank, and Chester River are a few good areas for anglers to seek this species. 

Chumming is a good way to target winter flounder since they congregate. There are a couple of traditional ways to chum for winter flounder; the cheap less effective method uses kernel corn whereas the more successful expensive way employs surf clams. Start out by anchoring both ends of the boat. Then toss handfuls of corn around the boat or smash surf clams and hang over the side of the boat in a mesh bag. For tackle use an ultra light to light weight rod combined with small hooks, like a #10, covered with bait combined with just enough weight to get it to the bottom. A fish finder rig with an egg sinker or standard bottom rig will work. Slack tide is considered the best time to fish for them. There is no creel or minimum size for winter flounder. 

Ms Bolinger further states:

To answer your question, they are found throughout the Chesapeake (Maryland and Virginia). Fishes of Chesapeake Bay (Edward O. Murdy, Ray S. Birdsong, and John Musick) is an excellent resource for information on Bay fishes.

So MD DNR says they are out there. I noticed that there is no state record for winter flounder -- here's your chance to get your name in the books!


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## rockhead

that proves nothing to me! so tkd have you tried here yet? basically that article states what I know ... fish for em in Md.


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## BigJeff823

Keep Trying;I think you have a better chance to catch them in Va.How would Ocean Citys(MD)costal bays be for them Winter Flounder?Maybe I might try for them at the fishing piers over there in March.


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## TKD

Rockhead, I have not tried as of yet. I had a very busy December but plan to try this month. It seems to blow or rain & blow every Wednesday which is my only day possible to go. I do have several places in mind to give it a shot. I will post as soon as I do or do not catch any when I get a chance to go. The post from Manayuck Jake gives me alot of hope. If you think you might want to give it a go maybe we can work it out sometime.
Todd Doyle


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## HuskyMD

I have never caught a regular flounder in the bay, therefore they are not there.

Good logic!


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## Sandcrab

I have caught flounder at Matapeake, SPSP, and at the 450 bridge. My bait of choice is a weakfish spoon tipped with a long piece of squid. Cast and drag S-L-O-W-L-Y on the bottom. 

Largest one I have taken was from the beach near the 450 bridge and was 19" long...and good eating!


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## BigJeff823

I was reading a artical in The Fisherman and they said that they were Striper fishing with bloodworms in the surf south of IRI.They were fishing close in because thats where the Stripers lurk,but they got bored and started casting as long as they could cast.Then one guy pulled in a large Winter Flounder;others did the same.Everyone fishing that day pulled in 4-5 big Flounder wile surf fishing that one Good Friday.What a story;I guess anything is possible.At least I know they're in Deleware.


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## catman

I beleive there is a population of winter flounder in the Chesapeake it's just that no one targets them. Those that do fish in the winter are usually after strippers and chances of catching flounder are nonexistent. As far a summer flounder in the bay is concerned, we're loaded with them. This past summer while using liver for catfish off of Miller Island I caught quite a few of small flounder. If I were to target flounder in that area using small bullhead minnows I'm sure I would have been quite successful.

How many people do you think target flounder in the upper bay. I think it would be safe to say ZERO but the fish are there. I think the same holds true for winter flounder. They're there but nobody is targeting them. I'd almost be willing to bet that you could fish the Tank right now chumming with razor clams and corn and catch winter flounder. As a matter of fact I think I just might do that in a couple of weeks.

Catman.


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## Kozlow

Try this link TDK.
Dont know if it help or not up north. http://www.n-jcenter.com/2002/nov/1/fish3.htm 

T------Lines

Kozlow


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## BigJeff823

Maybe when the weather warms up a little I'll try for them at Cape Henlopen with bloodworms.Maybe around Ash Weds?If other people wan't to try for them too in Md/Del; let me know where you were fishing,what bait you used,and how you did.


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## Duke of Fluke

I think Cape Henlopen or the Broadkill would be good spots, roosevelt too.


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## Manayunk Jake

Greetings All!

Link to MD commercial landngs of winter flounder:
http://mddnr.chesapeakebay.net/mdcomfish/finfish/test2y1.cfm?Spcode=1199 

Aparently the winter flounder population is cyclical, but they're there!


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## Duke of Fluke

Too bad the season in NJ is closed. I'm itchin for some fishin. Going on a private offshore seabass charter on the 13th with the gang from the other site which shall not be named here as to avoid the wrath of Eric G!


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## Manayunk Jake

Greetings Duke of Fluke!

Marine Forecast for 01/13/03 says 20 knot winds from the NW changing to westerly @ 15-20 knots and 2 to 4 foot waves .... may not be a bad day if you dress for the cold. We'll have to do some flattie fishing come March! Good fishing to ya!


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## BigJeff823

I wonder if Flounder could be caught right now;Ling is another spiecies of fish you can catch in cooler waters too.Even people surf fishing with bloodworms at 3rs can catch Winter Flounder;I think thats where the Flouder in the Fisherman artical were caught  .


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## Sandcrab

HP,

Tried to get some bloodworms for this weekend and was told that they are not available. Would like to try 3R's for flounder though. Just might give it a shot with some flounder jigs and cut squid dragged s-l-o-w-l-y accross the bottom this weekend although I plan on targeting the stripers in the inlet.


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## Jeffster

Hello Floundermen I have enjoyed all of your replies. As stated by the DNR ther are winter flounder in the chesapeake bay. The reason that catches are not reported is because the only thing that anglers in our area catch are rockfish. boring boring boring....Captain Ron and I catch these tasty flats in our area each year . Fish hard ....Outgoing tide is best.......


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## BigJeff823

When the water temp gets in the lower 50's I'll probily try for them; they might cure my cabin fever.I'll probily try 3rs and Cape Henlopen Pier.I know I probliy asked this question,but do Winter Flounder bite at night?I've caught Summer Flounder at night


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## Duke of Fluke

No Idea about the night bite. I doubt it though.


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## BigJeff823

I'll probily do some daytime fishing for them in March.I won't be fishing any time soon with weather like this;maybe as cold as 5F tonight   .


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## Duke of Fluke

I found the following posted at "the other site", take note of the Rehobeth bay part:

"I haven't fished for Winter Flounder since I was a kid and made a promise that I am going to give it a shot this March. 
I recently was able to acquire a Flounder Fishing book that appears to be circa 1965-1968. It contains several good tips and covers the entire gamut of chum and bait. What is very interesting about the book is that it references several locations in New Jersey and Delaware as places to fish. It indicates that fishing for WF in Cape May begins in January and lasts through May. It also stated that many 3-4 pound WF are caught in Cape May but that these larger fish haven't been around in the last few years (relative comment to the book's date). It also indicates that Rehobeth Bay in Delaware is a good WF spot. Both these comments surprised me as I never thought there was a fishery for WF as far south as Cape May yet alone Delaware."


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## rockhead

anyone try for those winter flounder in virginia beach yet?


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