# Casting with braid - not working as expected



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

I have just spooled up with braid. This is my first experience with it on a conventional reel in many years.

I decided to go with braid, due to the number or break-offs that I have been having lately with mono lines. So I chose 30lb. Stealth braid. What I like about it - it is not like the braid of old. It doesn't feel like a stiff piece of thread. I had to do a double take to see that it was a braided line. Nice feel, lays smoothly, and WOW is the diameter small. And, I did have one backlash, (I tripped while casting) which pulled out very nicely. I was impressed.

Now, what I didn't like... I ordered the braid on a new spool, so that I could just drop in, while maintaining my other spool for pompano fishing. I quickly found that the braid doesn't cast like my mono does. Now, I had always thought that it was supposed to be effortless distance, but this has NOT been my experience, thusfar. My best cast out of 5 (on dry land) was 130 yards. Not shabby, but NOT what this setup is capable of.

Can anybody give advice on what might be the culprit? Could it just be that I am mentally acclimated to casting in sand? 

I was very disappointed. Nothing about my casting last evening felt quite right.


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## SteveZ (Nov 30, 2006)

solid7 said:


> due to the number or break-offs that I have been having lately with mono lines.


Ya need to figure this out before ya go changing lines.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

SteveZ said:


> Ya need to figure this out before ya go changing lines.


Really? How do you go about figuring what is going to bite on your line? 

The ocean is pretty big in my neighborhood.


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## fishnuttz (Jun 27, 2008)

solid7 said:


> (on dry land) was 130 yards. Not shabby, but NOT what this setup is capable of.
> 
> Can anybody give advice on what might be the culprit? Could it just be that I am mentally acclimated to casting in sand?
> 
> ...


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Lots of things to consider.

What is your normal distance with the same set up using mono ?

What is the set up (reel and rod ) ?

As far as the sand thing goes, footing is almost always more secure in a grass field-- allowing the caster to really unwind and belt the snot out of it.

It's tough to get that agressive when standing on sand, the softer the sand the less secure the footing.

I don't know anything about your specific brand of braid, some braids perform better after a break in period.

Are you using the reel set up -- exactly as you would with mono ?. By that I mean how loose is the reel running concerning bering oil/mags/spool tension/etc.

Too many factors to diagnose over the internet, we'd have to see your casting as well as the equipment to know what is going on for sure.

WHen you say break offs-- most will interpret that as a break off during the cast/ not during the "bite".


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Mark G said:


> Lots of things to consider.
> 
> What is your normal distance with the same set up using mono ?



I haven't put tape to my mono casts. BUT... We cast on a soccer field. Where my mono casts will clear the goal, my braid cast is going right into it. Do I get a point for that? 




Mark G said:


> What is the set up (reel and rod ) ?


CCP 13' (the 3-6 oz version)
Abu 6500 C3 CT Mag Elite



Mark G said:


> As far as the sand thing goes, footing is almost always more secure in a grass field-- allowing the caster to really unwind and belt the snot out of it.


I hear what you are saying, and agree... But I may be "dialed in" for sand. Grass just doesn't feel good to me. That being said, it should be a revelation that I am a fisherman, not a distance caster. This exercise is to gauge my cast with that focus in mind.



Mark G said:


> I don't know anything about your specific brand of braid, some braids perform better after a break in period.


Hadn't actually thought of that. I believe that could be true, though. It seems there is some sort of coating on the line. Perhaps it just needs to be let out a few times to take some "sticky" out of it.



Mark G said:


> Are you using the reel set up -- exactly as you would with mono ?. By that I mean how loose is the reel running concerning bering oil/mags/spool tension/etc.


Yes/No. This is a flat spool, where my mono is a "V" spool. However, there are no brake blocks on this spool, where my mono spool has all brakes, albeit disengaged. (metal ring no brake on flat spool, Plastic ring, disengaged on mono) I run the mag as loose as it will let me. Usually about half on, and turn it all the way off during the cast.

The other MAJOR difference is that I have ceramic bearings on my mono spool. I can't see that being a 20 yard difference.




Mark G said:


> WHen you say break offs-- most will interpret that as a break off during the cast/ not during the "bite".


Fair enough. For the record, I am not having a problem with casting break-offs. I am having a problem with big fish biting when I am chasing small fish. Good problem to have, I suppose.


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## fishnuttz (Jun 27, 2008)

I am no pro but I do know when I changed to ceramics and rocket fuel in my ct mag I probaly did get an extra 20 yds


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

fishnuttz said:


> I am no pro but I do know when I changed to ceramics and rocket fuel in my ct mag I probaly did get an extra 20 yds


Even so, I would still be disappointed. I have a line that is 4lb line diameter equivalent lighter, and still get the same distance? Something is wrong with that picture...


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

If your line is coated it could be a tad stiff initially.

I'd use it a few times on the water and then compare.

It's really tough to make comparisons about lines (or any other variable) unless you are using the exact same reel to get an apples to apples comparison.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

solid7 said:


> Even so, I would still be disappointed. I have a line that is 4lb line diameter equivalent lighter, and still get the same distance? Something is wrong with that picture...



For thinner lines to aid distance, the reel has to be running pretty much on the edge-- if you are not feeding line out at or just slightly faster than the sinker-- line diameter is less of an issue.

Thinner lines due help (a lot) on spinning set ups -- there thinner line means less resistance as the coils are pulled thru the guides -- thick lines hit that first stripper guide and restrict line movement thru the guides.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Do I have unrealistic expectations of further casts with braid, then?


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

solid7 said:


> Do I have unrealistic expectations of further casts with braid, then?


Not at all. Some brands are better than others. I use Power Pro and Suffix.


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## Jesse Lockowitz (Feb 13, 2006)

solid7 said:


> Do I have unrealistic expectations of further casts with braid, then?


on conventionals, yes, i think you are expecting way to much of an instant increase because of the line.


spinners on the other hand , thinner braid will definately help.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

I seemed to have had a very significant increase when I dropped from 15# to 12# mono... I guess I thought that there was some correlation.


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## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

solid7 said:


> I seemed to have had a very significant increase when I dropped from 15# to 12# mono... I guess I thought that there was some correlation.


There is, it's in the line diameter. But you gave that up with the 30lb braid which I believe is close to the diameter of 17lb mono. Try it with 12lb braid and you should notice a difference.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

skunk king said:


> There is, it's in the line diameter. But you gave that up with the 30lb braid which I believe is close to the diameter of 17lb mono. Try it with 12lb braid and you should notice a difference.


It has an 8lb line diameter.

There are 300 yards of it on a flat spool, on top of a balancing layer of mono. So, it has to be pretty thin...

You won't get more than 230 yards of pure mono (at 17#) on a flat spool.


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## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

solid7 said:


> It has an 8lb line diameter.
> 
> There are 300 yards of it on a flat spool, on top of a balancing layer of mono. So, it has to be pretty thin...
> 
> You won't get more than 230 yards of pure mono (at 17#) on a flat spool.


oh yeah


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## Jesse Lockowitz (Feb 13, 2006)

skunk king said:


> . But you gave that up with the 30lb braid which I believe is close to the diameter of 17lb mono........
> 
> post of the year.


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## John81 (Apr 24, 2007)

Jesse Lockowitz said:


> skunk king said:
> 
> 
> > . But you gave that up with the 30lb braid which I believe is close to the diameter of 17lb mono........
> ...


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

skunk king said:


> there is, it's in the line diameter. But you gave that up with the 30lb braid which i believe is close to the diameter of 17lb mono. Try it with 12lb braid and you should notice a difference.





solid7 said:


> it has an 8lb line diameter.
> 
> There are 300 yards of it on a flat spool, on top of a balancing layer of mono. So, it has to be pretty thin...
> 
> You won't get more than 230 yards of pure mono (at 17#) on a flat spool.


lol


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## jakuka (Oct 12, 2009)

I guess there are a number of reasons why guys switch to braid. But I'm not sure if the reason you mentioned is adding up for me, at least with setup you're refering to. You said it was because you were breaking off when the bigger fish were biting? I don't know if you've measured but I'm gonna guess that you're not using a drag setting (while holding a 13' rod) that is tight enough to break a properly functioning 15-20lb. mono running line. So I'm guessing that its breaking way below what it is rated for (even though most monos actually break higher than their listed rating). So here's my theory- which isn't worth $0.02 but might as well have some fun, right?  I'm gonna guess you were using a copolymer line. Many of these lines when stretched beyond a certain point do not recover and are weakened throughout the portion of line that was absorbing the load. If this is the case, either respool after a hard pulling breakoff or bad backlash, or switch to regular mono. Not trying to talk you out of braid and I may be way off base but its just a thought.


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## lucky strike (Jun 5, 2008)

*Old School!*

I truly don't understand this braid frenzy. I have watched many many guys switching to braid on conventionals. For the most part they don't cast any farther than with mono and few with exception know how to cast properly to start with.I have no problem casting 17# mono with 6+bait 130 yds.With 15 a bit more.
I ask why they switch. The main answer I get is more line capacity no stretch-better feel?
Now I never had a feel issue with a 20 to 40 lb striper nor any hooking problems from line stretch. The next is less line sweep. I ask about up tide fishing and usually get a blank stare. and finally where is the sportsmanship using a 30 or 50 lb line to catch a 20 lb fish??
I admit I tried braid-I didn't like the feel of it cutting into my thumb on winding in. I didn't get a backlash but it seems like a nightmare if you do .What I do see on many occasions two guys getting tangled. What a mess!!
If there is a plus side ,I agree with more line capacity.I put 50 yds of 20lb power pro as backing and add 38 mm to 41 mm topshot of mono and about 12 yds of 40 lb shock line . This takes care of my 525 mags, 15 squalls and 6500 ct mags, all holding over 200 yds of total line. Problem solved !
This gets rid of the all the braid problems and is also alot cheaper to replace the mono than the braid.
I know there are some guys who won't agree with me and I respect their thoughts and opinions. I just like going home with fish after making some satisfying long casts and putting the bait just where I wanted it instead of making sure I set the drag perfectly not to break the rod or having to wind the braid on a certain way to eliminate backlash or how tightly I have to wind the braid on or use special knots or carry around a role of duct tape for your thumb or fingers etc, etc. 
I guess enjoyment is what one perceives it to be. Good fishing to all!


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

You make some good points lucky strike. I used to be a straight mono guy. When briad first came out in tackle shops shops around me I didn't buy it. I tried Gorilla Wire, Spider Wire and some others and truley hated them. A buddy of mine talked me into trying Power Pro and I was impressd. I had it on a pluggin set up. It was smoother than mono, casted further than mono. I decided to try it on my surf set ups and it worked out great. Now, ALL of my surf set ups are spooled with 17lb mono and a top shot of braid. For me, braid works out better because I really don't like to run down the beach chasing the fish. Not that I can't, I just choose not to. Yes in a crowd, braid can be a pain in the a$$, yes cost is a factor as well. I try to buy it in bulk. My "go to" conventional set is a Breakaway 123 paired with a 525. I did a kind of experiment just to see if there was a difference in casting distance, I used the same rod, and 2 525's one woth 17lb Suffix Tri and one with Suffix and Braid. Now I didn't measure the distance, only by site and there was a difference. IMHO braid lasts longer than mono. I have a few break offs while casting but that was do to me NOT paying attention. Never broke a rod with or mono while casting. For me, the bite detection is different, easier with braid. It works for some and not for others. For me it does.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

I said it before, and I will say it again... I switched to braid, because I am hooking into fish that are breaking me off before I can even start to play them out. And yes, I know how to set drag. (there are various reasons that this happens) I don't like the larger mono lines - and by larger, I mean 15-17 lb. (I target smaller fish) So, if I can get a small diameter line (that will cast) that still can land a big fish, I'll take it. And by big fish, I am talking those 30-50 lb black drum and redfish that occasionally nail a pompano rig baited with clams. (especially on the piers, although it has happened in the surf a couple of times)

Another reason for the "braid frenzy" for me, is that I fish often around rocks. Not big boulders in the water, but in worm rock and coquina ridge. These areas are graveyards for tackle. Most snags I get when fishing are actually other people's lost tackle. And many of these break-offs are just abrasion related. You get a sinker under the lip of a rock, and it only takes simple shearing force to snap off mono. Braid, while it still needs to be checked, holds up to this MUCH better.

It took me a few months of real fishing to get to the point of the braid switch, but I decided to do it, and it was well worth it. (from a pure fishing perspective) This weekend was a great weekend on the beach, and I'm sold. Your fishing conditions may vary, but don't make the mistake of thinking that what works for you works for everyone. That was one of my early mistakes.


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## fishnuttz (Jun 27, 2008)

solid7 said:


> And many of these break-offs are just abrasion related. You get a sinker under the lip of a rock, and it only takes simple shearing force to snap off mono. Braid, while it still needs to be checked, holds up to this MUCH better.
> 
> )


I you think braid is much more abrasion resitant around rock I do believe you will be dissapointed. I have lost lots of mojos and stretches around the bay bridge tunnel .If you hold braid tight and nick it with something sharp it snaps like 2# mono but you Will have too learn ON YOUR OWN I GUESS:redface:


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

lucky strike said:


> and finally where is the sportsmanship using a 30 or 50 lb line to catch a 20 lb fish??


If sportsmanship is your primary concern, might I suggest that you free dive, and spear all of your fish? Seems to me that would level the playing field. Or, at the very least, make ALL of your catches C/R.

I personally don't care for "sportsmanship" if that means being able to brag about how big a fish I got on however small of a line that I could get it on. That's just an ego trip. I like to eat fish, and could care less about evening their odds. I practice good conservation, and observe all legal limits. That's as "sporting" as I care to be. So that part of the discussion is over...



lucky strike said:


> I admit I tried braid-I didn't like the feel of it cutting into my thumb on winding in. I didn't get a backlash but it seems like a nightmare if you do .


Lighten up your grip there, boss... 

Seriously, you don't have to use your fingers as brake calipers. You just need to lightly guide it. I can't say that I have any complaints about this happening. If your fingers hurt while line guiding, you have an issue with your grip. It is supposed to be the rest of your hand that hurts. 

And, I couldn't disagree MORE about the backlash issue. The braid I am using is Stealth, (Fireline, is it? I got it bulk spooled at the tackle shop) and it was about 10 times easier to get out than mono. I never would have figured that. But, one caveat - I didn't get any knots in it. Knots with braid are a BITCH. It seems that because there is no memory to the line, it takes out the twisting component, which can get a bit confusing when pulling out the traditional birdnest.



lucky strike said:


> or having to wind the braid on a certain way to eliminate backlash or how tightly I have to wind the braid on or use special knots or carry around a role of duct tape for your thumb or fingers etc, etc.


Can't say that I even begin to understand what you are talking about. Is this your own personal pre-conceived notion, or actual experience?

What special knots? I use all of the same knots. Wind a certain way? Which way is that? Duct tape? See previous comment.

My experience with braid is very different. I admit that I had some initial worries, but they have been mostly dispelled.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

fishnuttz said:


> I you think braid is much more abrasion resitant around rock I do believe you will be dissapointed. I have lost lots of mojos and stretches around the bay bridge tunnel .If you hold braid tight and nick it with something sharp it snaps like 2# mono but you Will have too learn ON YOUR OWN I GUESS:redface:


A "nick" is not the same as "abrasion". If you hold mono tight, and nick it with something sharp it does the same thing. 

I have already been in the battlefield, and know what I am dealing with. I pull all of my rigs back in over 2-3 shelves of worm rock and coquina. (full contact at low tide) The braid has ALREADY proven itself over mono.


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## fishnuttz (Jun 27, 2008)

solid7 said:


> A "nick" is not the same as "abrasion". If you hold mono tight, and nick it with something sharp it does the same thing.
> 
> I have already been in the battlefield, and know what I am dealing with. I pull all of my rigs back in over 2-3 shelves of worm rock and coquina. (full contact at low tide) The braid has ALREADY proven itself over mono.


If you have THAT much exp. with braid Why are you asking questions??? I'll shut up and say no more because obviously your are a PRO...


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

fishnuttz said:


> If you have THAT much exp. with braid Why are you asking questions??? I'll shut up and say no more because obviously your are a PRO...


You tried to authoritatively tell me how sorry I was going to be for using braid to fish the way I fish, and I didn't buy it. Forgive me if I don't take everything you say as gospel. You may, after all, not be the only fisherman on the board. 

My initial questions had nothing to do with whatever you were answering, so get over yourself, already. Disagreeing with YOU doesn't make someone a "know-it-all". My initial questions were related to casting, and I just happened to have found the fishing qualities of braid to be ideal for me, and a discussion emerged around that topic. (even if the supposed casting qualities still elude me) So if your feelings are that easily hurt, it might be best for you to sit this one out...

On the other hand, I still wouldn't mind hearing your point(s) of view, if you can offer it without some sort of expectation of receiving validation. That's the only olive branch I have to offer.


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## lucky strike (Jun 5, 2008)

Hey Ruddedogg,
Good post !
What is a Breakaway 123 ?? I use The hdx on occasion . Is that a missprint?


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

lucky strike said:


> Hey Ruddedogg,
> Good post !
> What is a Breakaway 123 ?? I use The hdx on occasion . Is that a missprint?


That's the US made Breakaway before they were made overseas.


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## lucky strike (Jun 5, 2008)

Oh ok ,that would be the all star rod-the're good.


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

lucky strike said:


> Oh ok ,that would be the all star rod-the're good.


Yep that be the one. I do have a LDX spinner that I had cut down to 12'6. 13 was just a tad bit too long.


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## lucky strike (Jun 5, 2008)

Hey solid 7-Looks like you already know it all- I think you will do alot of fishing by yourself with that attitude. we try to help here not criticize.
No more replys to you partner!


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

lucky strike said:


> Hey solid 7-Looks like you already know it all- I think you will do alot of fishing by yourself with that attitude. we try to help here not criticize.
> No more replys to you partner!


Fair enough. No use trying to please everyone, anyway.

Tight lines.


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## Furball (Sep 20, 2002)

Solid7: You might want to give Ryan White of Hatteras Jack a call. He is a top caster and casts a conventional with braid. 

For a while I was casting a Alstar 1267 with a Abu Garcia 5500 CT spooled with firewire 14lb test. I got good distance with it but it was not much more than what I got with 12lb mono. On the other hand the ability to feel what was out there was great. Also, it was nice to have over 300 yards of line that generally breaks in 25+ lbs (fireline is very underrated) though a 5500ct would not be my first choice as a drum reel.

One possible advantage of using braid is that being thinner, it will hold bottom better. 

I took the braid off the reel some years ago (I forget why) but I am going to give it another try. Good luck! Tom


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Furball said:


> Solid7: You might want to give Ryan White of Hatteras Jack a call. He is a top caster and casts a conventional with braid.


Funny you should mention that... Ryan set me up with my entire setup. I bought the extra spools and braid on his recommendation. (I wanted the spools, but he sold me on the braid) I probably would not have reconsidered braid after all these years without his insight.

The ONLY thing that I have found that I dislike so far, is that sometimes, when the line lets out, it is so light, that it can waft around and get wrapped around the rod tip. (this also happens when reeling in, and "bulling" the weight over rocks - or "lunge" reeling, as I call it) This could, in the right circumstance, be potentially catastrophic.

And you are right, it does seem to hold bottom better. I fished some swells this weekend when they just started rolling in, and I was holding (as far out as I could throw) with 4 oz. of lead - a pyramid. I usually have to go to a sputnik under those conditions.


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## Furball (Sep 20, 2002)

I really liked casting with the 5500CT. What I may do, is respool with the 5500 CT with 14lb firewire and pair it with AFAW 11' estuary I am about to build for a New England Trip. I would also upgrade the drag on the reel. 

I have worried about the braid wrapping around the tip - it would be catastrophic. 

- Tom


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

I used a 5500ct/estuary combo with braid. Nice set-up.


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## fishnuttz (Jun 27, 2008)

solid7 said:


> You tried to authoritatively tell me how sorry I was going to be for using braid to fish the way I fish, and I didn't buy it. Forgive me if I don't take everything you say as gospel. You may, after all, not be the only fisherman on the board.
> 
> My initial questions had nothing to do with whatever you were answering, so get over yourself, already. Disagreeing with YOU doesn't make someone a "know-it-all". My initial questions were related to casting, and I just happened to have found the fishing qualities of braid to be ideal for me, and a discussion emerged around that topic. (even if the supposed casting qualities still elude me) So if your feelings are that easily hurt, it might be best for you to sit this one out...
> 
> On the other hand, I still wouldn't mind hearing your point(s) of view, if you can offer it without some sort of expectation of receiving validation. That's the only olive branch I have to offer.


First off I wasn't authoritively telling you any thing!!! I was telling you what I believe so I'll take your olive branch with a grain of salt.. I was telling you what I BELIEVE and giving MY OPINION and expierance with braid around rocks and concrete pilings. I do not Need validation from you or anyone else But I will not share my opinion with you any farther Good luck with your braid:spam:


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

fishnuttz said:


> First off I wasn't authoritively telling you any thing!!! I was telling you what I believe so I'll take your olive branch with a grain of salt.. I was telling you what I BELIEVE and giving MY OPINION and expierance with braid around rocks and concrete pilings. I do not Need validation from you or anyone else But I will not share my opinion with you any farther Good luck with your braid:spam:


And I was just sharing my experience with the Stealth 30lb. braided line fished in the same place(s) that I normally fish with 12 and 17 lb. Ande or Sufix hi-vis. I don't really know what is supposed to be better, or which one is supposed to make me harder and longer, but I *do* know what my results showed me. And that was, *this particular braid* held up much better than what I normally use in the rocks, against abrasion. I wouldn't make that up.

Thank you for your well wishes. I hope that you aren't too undone, and we can still have civil discourse later on. Rule #1 - never take anything that someone says on an internet forum personally. Words on a screen are no substitute for the conveyance of tone and emotion that take place face to face. I really don't have any sort of issue with you or lucky_strike. 
Take that however you like.

BTW - what's up with the "spam" emoticon?


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## 757 Fire (Jan 22, 2010)

solid7 said:


> Funny you should mention that... Ryan set me up with my entire setup.


Didnt know ryan sold ccp rods, they are not listed in his inventory or online.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

757 Fire said:


> Didnt know ryan sold ccp rods, they are not listed in his inventory or online.


It was brand new, all tags and everything. I believe that he said he sells the line, but I could be mistaken.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

He does............


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

757 Fire said:


> Didnt know ryan sold ccp rods, they are not listed in his inventory or online.


Yep, he's carrying them.


Solid 7-- I may have to revisit the fireline braid. I tried it only once and didn't really give it much of a tryout.


I can tell you the reason you are picking up some flack here is that most experience with standard braids like power pro are that they are not very abrasion resistant. My own experience is I was cut off on 80 lb power pro a half dozen times repeatedly one afternoon. I had kayaked baits out past the drop off and something big was out there, but the moment it made a run the braided line was being sawn apart as it was dragged across the sand bar.

I can understand the coating on fireline may help with abrasion-- so I'm not doubting your own experience either.


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## Workstoomuch (Aug 3, 2021)

solid7 said:


> Really? How do you go about figuring what is going to bite on your line?
> 
> The ocean is pretty big in my neighborhood.


True. But the size of the hook and bait helps eliminate some fish.


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