# Virginia Beach's beach belongs to the public!



## Dr. Bubba (Nov 9, 1999)

Va. Pilot Public Access Opinion Piece


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## SkunkApe (Dec 9, 2006)

Thanks Bub, 
It's my opinion that if that's private property, and technically it is, they (the property owners) should be responsible for hiring security guards, (not VBPD), and...pick up the trash...and replenish the sand on *THEIR* dime, not ours. I live down here and there's a big sign right where Chick's Beach ends and Bayville beach begins that says something like "Private Beach, No Trespassing!". Of course, no one pays any attention to it and it's not enforced.  

I can only picture a gaggle of crotchety curmudgeons sitting around over prune juice and coffee that decided to erect that waste of money sign. 

Skunk


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## Dyhard (Oct 24, 2002)

They are known around here as 'Condo Commanders' or 'Condo Commandoz'.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Damn right. If they want public dollars to replenish their beach, then they can make the beach public.


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

sand flea said:


> Damn right. If they want public dollars to replenish their beach, then they can make the beach public.


Ohh you know that ain't gonna happen...look at Croatan...

They want their cake and eat it,too....hypocrites


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## Dr. Bubba (Nov 9, 1999)

Nserch4Drum said:


> Ohh you know that ain't gonna happen...look at Croatan...
> 
> They want their cake and eat it,too....hypocrites


Au contraire, Sir.

"The times, they are a changing".

VCAN is my mechanism. Get involved however you like......but, just please get involved!


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

GO GET THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! To much BS from the CITY.


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## LKSalty (Jun 19, 2007)

*VA Beach Access*

Chicks's Beach Access ??

Where can you park your car without in that area walking a 1/2 mile with all your gear ???

What about public parking and an acess strip to have access to Sandbridge Beaches or the 15 miles of beach to the NC Line ?? I would gladly pay $ 5.00 per day to park for that privilage. 

The Nature Conservency locks everyone out from having ANY access to the beach for Surf Fishing except a few hundred feet at the Back Bay Wildlife Refuge entrance parking lot. Even if you to biked the 15 miles of gravel road there are no beach trail from the dirt road over the dunes to the beach. 

The Nature Conservancy's fat cat financial supporters have enough money to BUY the LAND to restrict public access to the water and BUY homes on the beach and lock every one else out unless they get wings and fly from the nearest shopping mall parking lot over the " Private Propery " signs to the beach. Except for Long island and Conneticut and we all know who owned those beach access rights, Virginia is one of the most restictive beach access states in the country for the general public.

Im retired and payed my takes for 40 years + !!!! It's time we took this country back !!!!!


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## dirtyhandslopez (Nov 17, 2006)

LK salty, you can cross over down at Barbor Hill, in the state park, and further down. And you can fish 24 hours a day.
Croatan p.o.'s me off. They've got you with the parking set up there.


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## LKSalty (Jun 19, 2007)

dirtyhandslopez said:


> LK salty, you can cross over down at Barbor Hill, in the state park, and further down. And you can fish 24 hours a day.
> Croatan p.o.'s me off. They've got you with the parking set up there.


Dear dirtyhandslopez

I am aware of the False Cape State Park parking lot and have gone there numerous times but that's as far as you can go by car. Barbor Hill is a 1/2+ mile long hike from that lot. Why is there no car access further on down on False Cape down to the NC line or at least a few miles of the area ?

My point is that Virginia brags about their beaches and has miles and miles of ocean and bay water frontage but very little of it accessable to the general public unless you own a boat.

How about giving some consideration to the rest of us.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

LKSalty, Back Bay is run by the Feds while False Cape is run by the state of Virginia. The Nature Conservancy has nothing to do with it.

Not sure why you hate them so much--when they buy a place, they *stop* it from being paved over and made private by landowners and leave it open to recreational use.


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## hookinfinger (Feb 7, 2000)

sand flea said:


> Damn right. If they want public dollars to replenish their beach, then they can make the beach public.



I am one of the owners on the beach. The city came to us and asked if they could run pipe lines across our land to stretch down the beach and dump sand. This would save them tons of money by not having to truck the spoils when they dredge Lynnhavenn Inlet. We did not go to the city and ask for sand.

We had absolutely no problem with it until we heard what strings were attached. One ,they wanted to make the beach public because they were now taking care of the beach(Again, we did not ask for the sand.)Two, they want to raise our taxes even more because they replenished it. We will not see them again probably for another 15 to 20 years.


We bought here 20 years ago.The place was advertised as having a private beach. That was not such a big deal to me put the price was higher because of it. We pay higher taxes because of our location and the beach being private. If they take the beach public the value goes down. The owners are looking for the fair value of the beach property.

As far as the private beach is concerned we have NEVER asked anyone to leave our beach if they decided they wanted to put their chairs out there, fish, pull their boats up and relax on the beach, etc; We have signs saying private beach but we don't enforce it. I don't give a crap if people want to come out and enjoy themselves. The only reason we leave the signs up is case we get a bunch of drunken nuts out there raising hell while families are trying to have a nice time.

It has not happened yet but you never know.

As far as the trash is concerned there is a barrel near our walkway to the beach that the city empties once a week or so during the summer. 95 % of the trash(plastic bags full of dog chit from people walking their dogs) in it is from people walking along the beach who do not live here. If the city wants to take the barrel away so be it. The next barrel is about a 1/4 mile away so you know what that means. People will just dump their crap on the beach.

Police patrols ? I have not seen a police patrol on our beach in at least 10 to 12 years. Back in the 90's they would ride 4 wheelers by once in a while during the week in the summer.

We followed the law when we bought and we will follow the law now. We only ask for fair value. Not some over inflated price. I don't think anyone in their right mind would like it if the city came and took property that they paid for. I also doubt that there are many homeowners that would not mind if a bunch of strangers showed up in their backyard ,set a volleyball net, broke out a keg a beer and started partying.


Dennis


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## dirtyhandslopez (Nov 17, 2006)

LKSalty said:


> Dear dirtyhandslopez
> 
> Barbor Hill is a 1/2+ mile long hike from that lot.


I wish it was only that far. Try 3 1/2 miles +.


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## beachfishin1 (May 4, 2008)

*Littoral Property Rights*

Have any of those who profess to own the beach ever checked the law regarding littoral property rights. The Federal Navigation Act passed in the 1930's established that on navigable waters the public land begins at the mean high tide mark on out to the water.


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## hookinfinger (Feb 7, 2000)

beachfishin1 said:


> Have any of those who profess to own the beach ever checked the law regarding littoral property rights. The Federal Navigation Act passed in the 1930's established that on navigable waters the public land begins at the mean high tide mark on out to the water.


The City has checked every law. We own it.


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## SkunkApe (Dec 9, 2006)

Now as far as owning "water", let me pass this by ya'll. Last fall we were fishing the backwaters of Lynnhaven. It was about 2am and the Pups where making a really good showing around the docks of the "millionaire mansions". Whilst attempting to yak up a fish, a guy comes running out and yells, "CAN I HELP YOU!!!". Well said something smart back to him, like "get me net" or "please warm up the skillet". Not funny I know, and he declared the cops were on their way. I was not touching his dock, or stepping foot on his land. He said it's private property, which I declared Bull Chit. I totally understand that there's a minor problem of theft from folks docks, but in my eyes, I can fish one millimeter from his dock as long as I'm not touching it. Am I wrong? 

Skunk


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## hookinfinger (Feb 7, 2000)

I was talking to a couple of guys that were wading in the Lynnhaven just off Sandler's property. They had gotten out of their yaks and were walking around and casting. A cop got them for trespassing and wrote tickets. I call bullcrap on that kind of crap. Of course you would not want anyone out there crunching your Oyster beds, but that was not the case.

Sounds like the guy that bothered you needs to get a life.


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## SkunkApe (Dec 9, 2006)

hookinfinger said:


> I was talking to a couple of guys that were wading in the Lynnhaven just off Sandler's property. They had gotten out of their yaks and were walking around and casting. A cop got them for trespassing and wrote tickets. I call bullcrap on that kind of crap. Of course you would not want anyone out there crunching your Oyster beds, but that was not the case.
> 
> Sounds like the guy that bothered you needs to get a life.


This is true. I know those guys and a few others that have been harassed when fishing Pleasure House Point (right off Sandler's property). Some of the VBPD have not been well versed in the ways of property rights, i.e. high tide line. I'm all for running off the trashing drunks that ruined it for us all, but leave the well to do yakker's and waders alone. 

Skunk


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## hookinfinger (Feb 7, 2000)

SkunkApe said:


> This is true. I know those guys and a few others that have been harassed when fishing Pleasure House Point (right off Sandler's property). Some of the VBPD have not been well versed in the ways of property rights, i.e. high tide line. I'm all for running off the trashing drunks that ruined it for us all, but leave the well to do yakker's and waders alone.
> 
> Skunk


I am with you 100 %


Dennis


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

LKSalty said:


> Chicks's Beach Access ??
> 
> Where can you park your car without in that area walking a 1/2 mile with all your gear ???
> 
> ...





Nserch4Drum said:


> Ohh you know that ain't gonna happen...look at Croatan...
> 
> They want their cake and eat it,too....hypocrites





SkunkApe said:


> Now as far as owning "water", let me pass this by ya'll. Last fall we were fishing the backwaters of Lynnhaven. It was about 2am and the Pups where making a really good showing around the docks of the "millionaire mansions". Whilst attempting to yak up a fish, a guy comes running out and yells, "CAN I HELP YOU!!!". Well said something smart back to him, like "get me net" or "please warm up the skillet". Not funny I know, and he declared the cops were on their way. I was not touching his dock, or stepping foot on his land. He said it's private property, which I declared Bull Chit. I totally understand that there's a minor problem of theft from folks docks, but in my eyes, I can fish one millimeter from his dock as long as I'm not touching it. Am I wrong?
> 
> Skunk





hookinfinger said:


> I was talking to a couple of guys that were wading in the Lynnhaven just off Sandler's property. They had gotten out of their yaks and were walking around and casting. A cop got them for trespassing and wrote tickets. I call bullcrap on that kind of crap. Of course you would not want anyone out there crunching your Oyster beds, but that was not the case.
> 
> Sounds like the guy that bothered you needs to get a life.





SkunkApe said:


> This is true. I know those guys and a few others that have been harassed when fishing Pleasure House Point (right off Sandler's property). Some of the VBPD have not been well versed in the ways of property rights, i.e. high tide line. I'm all for running off the trashing drunks that ruined it for us all, but leave the well to do yakker's and waders alone.
> 
> Skunk


the beach used to be a lot bigger than it is now. some places had property in front of the strip. I also think the " IDIOTS AND AHOLES" are the problem. HOW CAN YOU TELL? I DRINK, I FISH, just not at the same time. just be honest, you drink while fishing, you gotta "GO piss". WE need to keep it clean, and take more trash off the beach than we brought in. as for the cops, they don't have a clue about access. PARKING!!! Thats another story!!!!


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## wolfva (Nov 17, 2006)

SkunkApe said:


> This is true. I know those guys and a few others that have been harassed when fishing Pleasure House Point (right off Sandler's property). Some of the VBPD have not been well versed in the ways of property rights, i.e. high tide line. I'm all for running off the trashing drunks that ruined it for us all, but leave the well to do yakker's and waders alone.
> 
> Skunk


Trespassing is a class 1 misdemeanor, punishable by up to 12 months in jail and a fine not to exceed $2,500. It is a criminal offense. It does not matter if the person committing the crime is committing further crimes or otherwise minding his own business. 

Cops only need probable cause to effect an arrest (in this case, issuing a warrant). Probable cause to effect an arrest exists when, given the reliable and reasonable information at hand the arresting officer believes a crime has been committed, even if after the fact it is decided that no crime has, in fact, been committed. That's kinda sorta why we got judges and juries, ya know? Cops don't interpret the law, they just enforce it. Trust me, no cop wants to waste his time with some piddling trespass warrant just because rich man Sandler is pissing and moaning about footprints on his mega condo lot. But unfortunately Sandler keeps complaining to the cops and, like any other private citizien, when he makes a complaint the cops are honor bound to investigate. So when they see someone trespassing, they issue warrants. If the two yakkers are innocent (personally, I'd say they were but I'm not a judge) then all they have to do is present evidence of the high tide rule to the judge and they walk scott free. Maybe they can sue Sandler for mental cruelty....

As far as the topic, some people bought private property which includes beach front property. Other people want to use that beach and think they should be able to because, well, they want to! Heck, I want to as well. But I can't help but think... In my back yard I have a nice Pecan tree, and a nice fig tree. How would I react if I looked out back and saw some folks lounging in MY backyard, enjoying the shade from MY trees? I'd be pretty miffed. Who here wouldn't? Well, all I can say is if you're one of the folks who'd be miffed then you can't complain about private beach holders wanting to keep their beaches private.


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## SkunkApe (Dec 9, 2006)

wolfva said:


> Trespassing is a class 1 misdemeanor, punishable by up to 12 months in jail and a fine not to exceed $2,500. It is a criminal offense. It does not matter if the person committing the crime is committing further crimes or otherwise minding his own business.
> 
> Cops only need probable cause to effect an arrest (in this case, issuing a warrant). Probable cause to effect an arrest exists when, given the reliable and reasonable information at hand the arresting officer believes a crime has been committed, even if after the fact it is decided that no crime has, in fact, been committed. That's kinda sorta why we got judges and juries, ya know? Cops don't interpret the law, they just enforce it. Trust me, no cop wants to waste his time with some piddling trespass warrant just because rich man Sandler is pissing and moaning about footprints on his mega condo lot. But unfortunately Sandler keeps complaining to the cops and, like any other private citizien, when he makes a complaint the cops are honor bound to investigate. So when they see someone trespassing, they issue warrants. If the two yakkers are innocent (personally, I'd say they were but I'm not a judge) then all they have to do is present evidence of the high tide rule to the judge and they walk scott free. Maybe they can sue Sandler for mental cruelty....


Understood Wolfva, 
I believe the issue was that the yakkers were wading/fishing in knee deep water. The yaks were anchored up in knee deep water as well. At no time did they step foot on dry land. Police should be up to speed on the law before enforcing it. If a cop goes out and makes up laws and enforces these bogus laws, what kind of country would this be...? "Hey you, I think you're breaking the law, here's Ticket......go tell it to the Judge." A waste of time and money for the innocent.

I'm not saying we live on a "prison planet", but it's happened more than once off Pleasure House Point. 

Skunk


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

wolfva said:


> Trespassing is a class 1 misdemeanor, punishable by up to 12 months in jail and a fine not to exceed $2,500. It is a criminal offense. It does not matter if the person committing the crime is committing further crimes or otherwise minding his own business.
> 
> Cops only need probable cause to effect an arrest (in this case, issuing a warrant). Probable cause to effect an arrest exists when, given the reliable and reasonable information at hand the arresting officer believes a crime has been committed, even if after the fact it is decided that no crime has, in fact, been committed. That's kinda sorta why we got judges and juries, ya know? Cops don't interpret the law, they just enforce it. Trust me, no cop wants to waste his time with some piddling trespass warrant just because rich man Sandler is pissing and moaning about footprints on his mega condo lot. But unfortunately Sandler keeps complaining to the cops and, like any other private citizien, when he makes a complaint the cops are honor bound to investigate. So when they see someone trespassing, they issue warrants. If the two yakkers are innocent (personally, I'd say they were but I'm not a judge) then all they have to do is present evidence of the high tide rule to the judge and they walk scott free. Maybe they can sue Sandler for mental cruelty....
> 
> As far as the topic, some people bought private property which includes beach front property. Other people want to use that beach and think they should be able to because, well, they want to! Heck, I want to as well. But I can't help but think... In my back yard I have a nice Pecan tree, and a nice fig tree. How would I react if I looked out back and saw some folks lounging in MY backyard, enjoying the shade from MY trees? I'd be pretty miffed. Who here wouldn't? Well, all I can say is if you're one of the folks who'd be miffed then you can't complain about private beach holders wanting to keep their beaches private.


well your tree hangs over MY yard. I don't want to sit in your house, I just want to fish. I agree that SOME screw up(never seen that, or done that?). but the profiling needs to stop. You need to look at the laws and your agreement when you bought this place. They LIED. I like STATE LAW. va beach just spends MY money and gets nothing right.


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## landingcrew (Jun 17, 2008)

just keep it simple and print out the law and keep it in your wallet, if you present it to a cop he should understand the law and inform the owner on the law.


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

landingcrew said:


> just keep it simple and print out the law and keep it in your wallet, if you present it to a cop he should understand the law and inform the owner on the law.


Bingo. If the law is printed out in black and white, hopefully it will inform the officer on what he should already know.


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## Madmike23322 (Mar 30, 2009)

As an infamous tresspass fisher I feel from you guys claiming water line but let's be real. When ur in someones yard regarless of the tide it's there right to be an ars hole or not. I've paid thousands in tresspassing fines in my 22 short years and pretty much if your not in on the water than someone owns it regaurdless of tide. That being said courtsy and common sense go a long way when dealing with this. If you are able to keep it off the books you may get a nice new spot not to many can fish at least you get of without a ticket. I freaqunlty fish the bulk heads opposite the wall in rudy and have been for so e years. Tho cleary posted . A d I have paid my dues but remining stubern and doin my best to keep the spot clean and being frindley with the locals as well as mettin the owners of the property I now have an amazing fishing spot I love as if I own and care for it the same. Just don't let your feelings get the better of you and do what feels right and just and someone will give, either you growing poor fr paying fines the landowner from reaching an agreement Orr just caving and finally the law, after having to haress you out of the spot weekly even daily may begin to see your side and that goes farthest of all.


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## dirtyhandslopez (Nov 17, 2006)

landingcrew said:


> just keep it simple and print out the law and keep it in your wallet, if you present it to a cop he should understand the law and inform the owner on the law.


Landingcrew, have you ever told a cop you know the law better than he/she does? Believe me, through past experience, that usually ends up with cuffs. You can only get away with that in the courtroom, in front of the judge. Usually, if the judge see's that the cop is going to be made to look a fool, the judge will dismiss the case before the cops gets a chance to speak and make himself/herself and the entire system look like idjits.


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## Dr. Bubba (Nov 9, 1999)

A little back on topic, Norfolk and Virginia Beach are making it clear that they view the beach as public property. Common property. Not beachfront owner property. I apologize up front to folks who have post-reconstruction deeds saying they own the beach. But, in these situations it'll never stand up. The sheer lack of access locations from behind dunes to the actual beach is well known to all in terms of fences, signs, and sometimes selective unwelcoming. There's no way the cities are going to deny the public access while spending their money to protect some of the it's most valued property. 

If any of y'all think think this VB thing is a big deal, than consider this....Underway recently in Norfolk is an effort by the City to take back City (public) property that beachfront property owners have encroached upon. Things like landscaping, gazebos, and other structures that folks have built forward to the water, technically on City property.


I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that public access is gonna be a hot topic in the coming years here.


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## MDubious (May 10, 2008)

The concept of a "private beach" is just a joke.


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

One of the issues with the law is that contrary to what VCAN says deeds in Virginia for waterfront property typically say to mean low water. Thus knee deep water when it is high tide is private property.

Also you a have the interesting concept that there are a number of waterways that were produced by dredging out private property where there is deeded property under bottom land that is still covered at mean low water.


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## jay b (Dec 1, 2002)

AKA 'the cove', etc.


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## ryan511 (Jun 26, 2008)

I side with the condo associations and land owners on this. I don't understand why we can just randomly declare certain land "public" because it's of particular value to the community. It's not as though it's a highway or some other fundamental issue, either. It's just the beach. Unless you just fundamentally disagree with the concept of land ownership, I think you're being inconsistent.


Seriously, what am I missing here? What is the fundamental argument the city is making from a legal perspective?

land owner: "we bought this land. We own in like any other piece of land."
City: "ya but your land is awesome and we totally want it. Like, a lot. So piss off."

^Is there some aspect of the law I'm missing in my synopsis?


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## LKSalty (Jun 19, 2007)

sand flea said:


> LKSalty, Back Bay is run by the Feds while False Cape is run by the state of Virginia. The Nature Conservancy has nothing to do with it.
> 
> Not sure why you hate them so much--when they buy a place, they *stop* it from being paved over and made private by landowners and leave it open to recreational use.



To Sand Flea : 
Sorry about the incorrect reference to the Nature Conservency and agree it is a FED issue. 

Vehicular access to False Cape State Park is prohibited because the park is land-locked on the southern end of the Back Bay National Wildlife Refuge. Those wishing to visit the park for the day must either bike or hike through the refuge (via beach or interior trails, and the interior trail is closed from November 1 through March 31), or boat or canoe in down Back Bay. You can also take the Terra Gator, a specially designed vehicle that minimizes impact to this special environment, during this period. 

*In this case Virginia should have negotiated a deal with the Feds to get better public the False Cape State Park* What's the point of having a land locked state park that you can only get to by foot or bike 3-1/2 miles + . I have never seen more than a hand full of people at False Cape State Park.

My point was that the general public has NO ACCESS to the many miles of ocean beaches south of the Virginia Beach hotel strip except for the small strip of beach at Sand Bridge. 

Let's push for BETTER ACESS to public land owned by the taxpayers !!!!!!


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## landingcrew (Jun 17, 2008)

dirty,
if you act like your better then the cop then ya expect some new jewerly, but if you tell him this, sir i have the law printed out because i was in this situation before and not to sound like an ahole but just so that you are informed.... then show him, or ask him to call the desk sergent who has the laws in front of him.trust me on this a cop would much rather not worry about doing more paperwork on some stupid crap and then have to deal with being embarrassed and possibly reprimanded. it just comes down to being a gentlman.


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## wolfva (Nov 17, 2006)

SkunkApe said:


> Understood Wolfva,
> I believe the issue was that the yakkers were wading/fishing in knee deep water. The yaks were anchored up in knee deep water as well. At no time did they step foot on dry land. Police should be up to speed on the law before enforcing it. If a cop goes out and makes up laws and enforces these bogus laws, what kind of country would this be...? "Hey you, I think you're breaking the law, here's Ticket......go tell it to the Judge." A waste of time and money for the innocent.
> 
> I'm not saying we live on a "prison planet", but it's happened more than once off Pleasure House Point.
> ...


Oh, I agree. In an ideal world the cops WOULD be up to speed on every single law. But this ain't an ideal world. Do you have any idea how many laws are on the books? Or how many variations of certain laws? It's impossible for any one person to be 'up to speed' on all the laws. Even judges aren't. That's why they have lawyers argue in front of them; they throw out different aspects of different laws and the judge decides which one applies. The cop in the example didn't make up a law though; he saw folks who, to the BEST of his knowledge, were trespassing. If it turns out they actually weren't and his knowledge was lacking then they go free and he learns a valuable lesson which he'll be able to pass on to other officers. 

Something you can do, btw, is write a letter to the chief of police as well as the watch commander (I believe that area is the 2nd precinct) detailing that trespass doesn't apply in the water with the appropriate laws attached. They'll get the info out to the beat cops.


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## hookinfinger (Feb 7, 2000)

ryan511 said:


> I side with the condo associations and land owners on this. I don't understand why we can just randomly declare certain land "public" because it's of particular value to the community. It's not as though it's a highway or some other fundamental issue, either. It's just the beach. Unless you just fundamentally disagree with the concept of land ownership, I think you're being inconsistent.
> 
> 
> Seriously, what am I missing here? What is the fundamental argument the city is making from a legal perspective?
> ...


Exactly.


When we bought here the land was designated Private. That is the way the city has it recorded. When the city assessed the property the beach was taken into account to come up with the total value to tax us on. We also paid the market value for the land.

We are not only paying higher taxes for the location put are paying even higher taxes because of the private beach designation.

We have paid these taxes for twenty years. We have never missed. You can bet if we did not pay the city would have jammed us with penalties, interest and a tax lien on OUR PROPERTY.

Now after 20 years they want to change the rules and act like this was never ours to start with.

We did not squat on this land and then claim it. We did not cheat or trick anyone out of this property. We bought it fair and square.

Contrary to the article,the city does NOT collect or garbage. We pay to have our trash removed. The barrels that they put out on the beach for 6 months a year are for public use. People walking down the beach who are not slobs use them. A truck comes by every 7 to 10 days and checks them. If they are more than half full they will pull the plastic bag out and put a new one in.

They do not clean up any trash on the beach. We do it. I walk the beach 2 times a week during the summer with 2 large leaf bas and fill them full of crap that people toss on the beach or the stuff that washes up. (not just our property)

The (barrel)near our walkway stinks, draws flies, Bees, ants and other critters. We were going to call the city and ask them to remove it from the property this year if they do not maintain it better. We have ALLOWED them to put it here the last few years. We did not ask for the can. We did it as a favor. We have our own garbage receptacle.

As far as police patrols the article has that wrong too. We do NOT have special patrols. The person who wrote the article may be thinking of the Virginia Beach Oceanfront during the summer. They have bike patrols, horseback patrols, walking patrols, ATV beach patrols, ETC; WE HAVE NONE OF THOSE THINGS. If we need a policeman we have to get on the phone and call the police or 911 just like anyone else.


We get NOTHING extra from the city. We get the same treatment that any other citizen gets. Except of course now.

The article mentions that the city has been talking about this for 12 years. Maybe so but we just found out about their plans a little over a year ago when they contacted us looking for permission to run their pipes over the property.

I am going to paraphrase. This is the way it went down.

city: We would like to run pipes across your property to pump sand (spoils) up and down the beach.

us: OK no problem. (these may be here for months and months. No big deal we will live with them)

city: Since we will be putting sand on your beach which means we will be maintaining it, we need you to sign your land over to us so we can make it public.

us: Why would we want to do that. We would lose all that we paid. Initial investment, taxes, improvements with no chance of recovering some money if we sell.

city. Well that is the way it is going to have to be.

us: How about this. You can run your pipes but when it comes time for you to spread sand on our beach, skip over us and go on to the next Peron who wants it. We did not ask for this sand.

city; Nope that is not the way it is going to work.

us : How about we refuse to to allow the pipes than.

city: we will take your land then.

us: Well the least you can do is obtain the land the same way we did. Buy it. (this would be a forced sale. We do not want to sell but it would be better than the alternative)

city: No, we are going to go take it.


I think the city came up with this plan mainly because of the stink raised last year at Crab Creek. People were raising Cain about all the dump trucks that would be coming and going to remove the dredge spoils. The amount of dredge spoils from that project will seem like a drop in the bucket compared to this project.


This is the cheapest way out for them. As I mentioned earlier, after they dump God knows what on the beach they will be long gone. They won't be out here maintaining anything but 8 garbage barrels. Meanwhile they will have stolen our property.

I will give this supposed sand 2 winters with a few nor'easters before it is washed away.


Now to add insult to injury our taxes will not be going down even though we no longer own the land. In fact they are likely to go up. This is price we are going to be paying for there supposed continuing maintenance of the beach.

Folks if this can happen to us it can happen to you. How would you like it if you had 5 acres of land out in the country and the city decides that they would like to take 2 acres of your property and build a park on it. This kind of crap is happening all over the country.


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