# Abu Mag Problem



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

I have a 6500 Mag Elite that just got it's yearly service last week. So, I take it out fishing, and the first couple of casts result in mild blow-ups. I was fishing a pretty stiff WNW wind, so I had the wind glancing over my left shoulder. Not a wind knot, I say. Well, the third time it happened, I had full brakes on, and I could see it fluffing up about 1/2 way out.

When I got the line back in, I started playing with the mag, and notice that the spool is freewheeling, even with full brake on. Now, I'm confused. The slider for the mag adjustment (stupidest mechanism ever designed) seems to be properly engaged, as it does click without any binding. But the brake just does NOT work. I'm really at a loss here, as there were no leftover parts, and I didn't change anything, other than to give it a good grease painting. And I know for certain that grease does not interfere with a magnetic field, so...

Any guesses on this one?

On another note, I threw one of the longest casts I've ever seen on the one successful attempt that I made.


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

It's the mag carrier moving?


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

It sure seems to be. I can't see through the sideplate, obviously, but like I said, its all engaged, and it clicks without binding when the slider is moved.


----------



## luckyOC (Apr 3, 2010)

your going to have to take that side plat off and see if it slides back and forth.... how are the magnets setup?

Just sell it and by a shuttle.....


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Nothing wrong with the way the magnets are set up. I've used it for 3 years before this, with no problem, whatsoever. Can't remember how they are setup, but I believe that there are 3 magnets in a +-+ configuration. (occupying the center most slots) I can assure you, sideplate or no sideplate, that slider is moving. The clicker is engaging in the slider. And there is absolutely no way to know what's going on with the sideplate off, as the magnet carrier assembly is a totally separate piece. I've already had it on and off a few times, and it isn't working itself out.

The spool knock is just very slight, same as I've always had it. No dings in the spool, or anything of the sort. Only thing different is that I put Sakuma line on the spool, where I used to have Sufix. 

As for the Shuttle, I already have a couple, and a new one is not an option right now, as I've recently had a setback in my faith in Akios reels. End of that story.


----------



## NASCAR (Jul 26, 2013)

Pull off the side with the handle, then pull the spool out, then look down inside there and adjust the mags, it should move closer to the handle side or spool as you increase the setting. As for the brakes, I've never known the bearing tensioners to be used for a brake in the Abu, but for spool position instead. Tighten one and loosen the other, moves the spool to center or off center. My mag elite was working perfect and last I used it was blowing up on me. But I had the mags too low I feel.


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

It's all good... I put the spool right in the center. Done this dozens, if not hundreds of times. Mother****er... This is a mystery, and it's really boggled the piss out of me.

I've even tried throwing the position of the the spool a little one way or the other, to no avail. There is something wrong when max brake setting does nothing. With a full spool, it shouldn't be like that, even with some spool shift.

Yes, the carrier is properly engaged and moving. Forgot about the other sideplate, so thanks for the brain check.


----------



## DANtheJDMan (Aug 29, 2012)

luckyOC said:


> your going to have to take that side plat off and see if it slides back and forth.... how are the magnets setup?
> 
> Just sell it and by a shuttle.....


That is funny. I was at BBWR and met Islander80. He looked at my shuttle and said that the mag dial turned the opposite direction of his. 

The little narrow end of the mark is at the max CCW movement of the knob and the fat end of the mark is at max CW movement. 

I had been throwing it with a few mild blowups at the fat end of the dial.

I took it apart to clean and lube it and saw that the brake blocks are not in it and that when I turn the knob CW the mags get farther away CCW the mag gets closer.

Sure enough I had been throwing it with the mag off. 

Apparently the mark is for more or less fluff.


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

I wish the Abu had a mechanism for the brake like the Akios. If I could buy just that assembly, I'd modify the Abu in short order.

I have ALWAYS hated the sliding mag adjustment. I'd even rather deal with the ridiculous home-made looking jobs that you sometimes see.


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

solid7 said:


> I wish the Abu had a mechanism for the brake like the Akios. *If I could buy just that assembly, I'd modify the Abu in short order*.
> 
> I have ALWAYS hated the sliding mag adjustment. I'd even rather deal with the ridiculous home-made looking jobs that you sometimes see.


Good luck with that.....I can't even buy the assy to repair the Akios reel I have.


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Well, you and I both know where the "if I could" statement comes from. 

What a shame. Seriously... what a shame.


----------



## big brother (May 15, 2002)

Problem probably goes back to a "police traffic stop"


----------



## LEW1 (Feb 5, 2009)

Just to expand on how to trouble shoot the magnet brake problem. Go back to the step where you removed the right (handle side) of the reel. You have pulled out the spool and now you are looking at the magnet positioning plate on the inner left side. Fully engage the magnet by sliding the magnet positioning lever fully to the rear. The magnet plate should now be parallel or flush with the left reel cage side. Lightly press on the magnet holding cage at the magnet side and the cage should tilt in about 1/4 inch or more. You should feel mild resistance from the cage positioning spring and the cage should return to a parallel or flush position when you remove pressure from the cage. This will test to see if the magnet positioning spring is assembled correctly and working. This spring is # 23596 on the schematic for this reel. There is a you tube video titled "Abu Ambassadeur 6500 CT Mag Elite Assembly" that shows assembly of the magnet position ing system. Assembly of the spring is shown at time marker 2:04. 
Also try sliding the magnet positioning lever fully forward. The magnet holding cage should now tilt inward on the magnet side. Again there is some assembly problem or part broken, etc if this is not happening. The same video shows assembly of all the magnet positioning system. 
I doubt that the magnets could go bad but guess this could happen so check their strength with something iron, etc. As long as the magnets are good, the spool is a conductive metal and the magnets are close enought to the spool the breaking system should work. 
Hope you solve your problem and good fishing. Now if it would just warm up. Good Fishing,
Lew1 (Please excuse if this is a double post- first reply went somewhere in cloud land)


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

big brother said:


> Problem probably goes back to a "police traffic stop"


It could be. Today they're in my reel, tomorrow yours. All the more reason to stop the madness!


----------



## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

Maybe try ungreasing the mmagnet, and dip in corsion x or tsi?


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

NC KingFisher said:


> Maybe try ungreasing the mmagnet, and dip in corsion x or tsi?


Still going to check on Lew1's suggestion. (tomorrow) But no, the grease does not affect. I paint all of the magnets in all of my reels with grease. Always have, as they degrade quicker than any other steel part, if not treated. Especially monomags, which tend to start falling apart where the magnet is braised onto the post. Good thought, but I tested this out a very long time ago...


----------



## kingfish (Feb 28, 2004)

you need a drop of oil in the bearings


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

kingfish said:


> you need a drop of oil in the bearings


The bearings were serviced, and oil added to achieve the desired spin. One more drop, and I'm gonna need one less drop. 

The key to this puzzle, is that the brake is effectively doing NOTHING. Even with an overspun bearing, there should be some noticeable braking. But there is no braking. Not even a little. It's as if somebody put a fake magnet in there when I wasn't looking. Which didn't happen because there are no pranksters in my life.


----------



## kingfish (Feb 28, 2004)

coming from the guy who was going to redesign the ABU reel......SMH

The reel can be reassembled with the mag carrier on the wrong post, this will not allow the mag carrier to travel, if you can see the mag carrier traveling while sliding the adjuster and looking with the spool removed from the handle side, that is not the problem, I would check the magnets themself.


----------



## Don B (Jul 28, 2001)

AbuMike said:


> Good luck with that.....I can't even buy the assy to repair the Akios reel I have.


Are you talking about the magnet carriage? Could you describe the problem?

Thank you.


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

kingfish said:


> coming from the guy who was going to redesign the ABU reel......SMH


I have several custom reels that I built from redesigned configurations. I have one reel that is an Abu/Akios hybrid. I also have a complete reel design that I am waiting to build. (for my own use) Forgive me for failing to see the significance of your comment.



kingfish said:


> The reel can be reassembled with the mag carrier on the wrong post, this will not allow the mag carrier to travel, if you can see the mag carrier traveling while sliding the adjuster and looking with the spool removed from the handle side, that is not the problem, I would check the magnets themself.


The mag carrier is not on the wrong post. I'm not sure how you say that it can be assembled incorrectly - that is not my experience. I may need to check the magnets, but they have not been rearranged. As you may well know, it cannot be an unintentional act. It takes some will to get those magnets out.

It's rather inconceivable that they lost magnetism from disassembly to re-assembly, but at this point, I rule nothing out.


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

There is none.....


----------



## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

Why not just take it back apart, re-clean/lube and re-assembly and see how it is.


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Orest said:


> Why not just take it back apart, re-clean/lube and re-assembly and see how it is.


I did... 

I'm probably just going to set this one aside for a few days, and come back to it when I'm not thinking about it. It's probably something staring me right in the face, and is so simple, I'll kick myself later. It's one of those cases of having looked at it now so many times, that I'm probably just overlooking the same flavor of obvious over and over, and not recognizing it.

I'll definitely report back if I figure it out in the meantime.


----------



## Don B (Jul 28, 2001)

I has been a couple of decades since I have worked on a Mag Elite. If I remember correctly, when you reassemble the left side plate, the slider needs to be all the way back (or possibly all the way forward). After the assembly is complete and the screws snugged down, you will move the slider to the opposite extreme to pick up the carriage. If you simply reassemble the side plate, the carriage will not function. Hope this solves your problem.


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Don B said:


> I has been a couple of decades since I have worked on a Mag Elite. If I remember correctly, when you reassemble the left side plate, the slider needs to be all the way back (or possibly all the way forward). After the assembly is complete and the screws snugged down, you will move the slider to the opposite extreme to pick up the carriage. If you simply reassemble the side plate, the carriage will not function. Hope this solves your problem.


You are right, but like I mentioned earlier, if you don't get it back together properly, it won't click when you slide it. In fact, it usually just binds completely. That's not the case, here.


----------



## BlaineO (Jan 22, 2001)

If the mechanical aspects are OK, and the polarity of the magnets correct, your mags have likely been weakened by excessive heat, or exposure to a strong electrical field.

Good luck,

Blaine


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Success.....finally got the parts I needed. This mag sys. is 100 times better than the Abu..Actually adjusts through the full range.


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Yes, it absolutely is better than the Abu. Glad you finally locked it down.

If I can get my hands on one of those, my Abu slider problem will go away, never to return.


----------



## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

AbuMike said:


> Success.....finally got the parts I needed. This mag sys. is 100 times better than the Abu..Actually adjusts through the full range.


At the expense of what may be a "dumb question", what is that assembly and who makes it ?

Thanks !


----------



## bronzbck1 (Jun 13, 2007)

Mag assembly from an Akios. An Abu will never be an Akios great reel in its day!


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

It really is a great reel, but if they want to stay around, it needs to be easier to get parts upon request. In that regard, Akios still has a long ways to go. I know of at least 3 people who can attest to that fact. I'd hate to go digging any deeper for testimonials to that end


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

bronzbck1 said:


> Mag assembly from an Akios. An Abu will never be an Akios great reel in its day!


I have to disagree with this. While the Akios is a very nice reel it is not of the same quality as an Abu. They both have their +'s but the overall build of the Abu is better.


----------



## yerbyray (May 18, 2010)

Sure looks like a lot of plastic there. Plastic never ever goes bad right?



ez2cdave said:


> At the expense of what may be a "dumb question", what is that assembly and who makes it ?
> 
> Thanks !


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

yerbyray said:


> Sure looks like a lot of plastic there. Plastic never ever goes bad right?


And the Abu is not???.......Not quite sure how you meant this but......Oh well, those that know, know.....


----------



## bronzbck1 (Jun 13, 2007)

solid7 said:


> It really is a great reel, but if they want to stay around, it needs to be easier to get parts upon request. In that regard, Akios still has a long ways to go. I know of at least 3 people who can attest to that fact. I'd hate to go digging any deeper for testimonials to that end


Getting parts is so easy you contact Joe Or Simon. There is no one else to deal with or anyone better to deal with. If you try any other way that is your problem.


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

I know who to contact, and I maintain my previous statement.


----------



## glenn3564 (Nov 12, 2013)

Solid7, You are right to put it away and go back to it later. I have 2 older (much older) 1994 models of Abu's. They both are the best casting reels I have ever owned. I own a place
on Lumber River in NC and have those 2 reels along with some Daiwa Ultra Lights stored in a metal storage building. This past spring I broke out the Abu's and one of them spider-webbed
with me every time I threw it. They both had braided Spider Wire on them. After 3 times, I was ready to throw it in the river. I tore it apart and believe me, I ain't no reel mechanic.
I put it back together and still the same crap every time I threw it. Then I tightened down my star drag just to see if it would quit tangling. It tangled again. I shouldn't even have
been able to throw it I had it so tight. Put it back in the shed. Got up the next morning, brought it in the house, pulled the line with the drag set as tight as I could get it and guess
what, the line came off it as if it were loose as a goose. Over the winter in the shed, the braided line had something to happen to it. I don't know what as I had been fishing this 
same reel for the past 3 years with no problem. What was happening was the entire roll of braid was slipping on the reel itself. I went outside, rolled all the line out until I got to 
the bottom of the reel, put a small piece of black tape around the line where I had tied it, reeled it back up and re-set the mags for a slow, even drop according to the weight and
bait and it hasn't tangled since. I know this is not what is wrong with yours but it just goes to show how something very simple can blow your mind regardless of how many times
you have done this cleaning. It will come to you.


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Appreciate that, Glenn, and I can totally relate. This isn't the first time something silly thing like this comes up. I'm sure that I will figure this out, but probably not while I'm looking at it. I've got plenty of reels in backup, so it's no big deal. Will definitely post back when it's resolved.


----------



## glenn3564 (Nov 12, 2013)

I took that same Abu apart about 3 years ago to clean and grease, put it back together and the mag didn't work on it. Tore it back apart and there was
a curved washer on the brake that I had up-side-down. Brakes wouldn't work so I flipped it over and haven't had a problem with it since. It's something
so very minor that you probably just don't see it. Kinda like looking in a 2 way mirror and you are on the wrong side of the mirror right now. It will come 
to you later.


----------



## luckyOC (Apr 3, 2010)

just serviced my 5500 CT mag elite today..... took the mag off and on a few times.... pm me if you want me to fix it for you. 

yerbyray, technically the abu's have the same amount of plastic, if you look at both mags... i do like the akios version much better.... it is perfect if you knock 1 mag out, leaving 3 @ +-+. 
I dont want to drill out a hole on my abu that i still have, so the stock slider stays.

I have both abu and akios reels, some are getting parts off the other and vice versa, my goal is to have WHAT I WANT and like, in the end of the day. Will is sell my abu's... heck no, but i have been fishing my akios more.


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

luckyOC said:


> just serviced my 5500 CT mag elite today..... took the mag off and on a few times.... pm me if you want me to fix it for you.


Ha! Thanks, but this is just an anomaly. I'm no rookie at this game. Can build one of these reels blindfolded. 



luckyOC said:


> I dont want to drill out a hole on my abu that i still have, so the stock slider stays.


Nothing sacred for me. If I could get my hands on an Akios mag assembly, it would be "in like Flint." Not only that, but I'd have the tooling made to do it for others. And not only that, but I have developed a process for fixing the scar where the slider formerly went. (I have done this many times)



luckyOC said:


> my goal is to have WHAT I WANT and like, in the end of the day.


That's why I tinker... Some say necessity is the mother of invention. I say that the relentless pursuit of satisfaction is the mother of invention.


----------



## LEW1 (Feb 5, 2009)

Solid7, just curious to see if you have solved your mag problem yet. Rereading your previous comments I notice that you had three magnets in the carrage. Have you removed one of the magnets or re-arranged them? I have a same as new 6500C3 CT mag and have noticed that there are four mangets in the carrage arranged from hole position 2 to 5 going in a counter clockwise direction. The magnets numbers 2 and 4 have a red mark indicating (the same mangetic pole). Pole order is alternating. I looked up some info on these type mangets and they are usually very stable and resist demagnetization due to physical shock. The internal magnetic material is brittle but is usually plated with cromium to protect structural integrety. These magnets need to be heated to over 170 degrees to loose mangetism due to heating so that seems unlikely also. 
The solution continues to appear related to the proximity of the magnets to the spool side plate. I notice that there is a bronze bushing that positions the spool from the left side of the reel. Tightening the left bearing cap would move the entire spool to the right and further away from the mangets at their closest position. I tried using this adjustmend to move the spool to the right and there was some reduction in magnetic breaking from the maximum position with four magnets in place. ( Free spin time increased from about 2 seconds to about 4 seconds) but this did not lead to free wheeling. 
Have you previously used the cetrifugal break blocks in this reel? 

Hope you figure it out. An interesting puzzle for the cold winter days. Best wishes and future fishing.


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Just to update this...... you can know buy this $10.00 retail parts assy for $30.00......


----------

