# RiverRig Puppy Drum Rigs



## susanobx

There's a change in the air and the finger mullet are moving into the surf. To me, that means one thing; it's time to switch gears from the pompano hunt to the puppy drum. Don't get me wrong, I will still have my smaller RiverRig out with a couple of fleas, but I will double up on the other two rods with the RiverRig *puppy drum rigs*. Fished the same way with no terminal tackle and fresh finger mullet should be deadly! River and I have had great success with them in the past. Here's a few pics to get your heart pumping! What's your go to rig for puppy drum? I prefer the circle hooks as I spike my rods.


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## abass105

Nice pics. Thanks for sharing. If you don't mind, what size hooks do you use on your puppy drum rig?


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## dudeondacouch

Go-to rigs for pups are regular 2-drops with 1/0-5/0 circles (shrimp/fleas, sticking), and 12-16" carolina rigs with egg sinkers and a 5/0 owner mutu light (whole finger mullet, slow retrieve).


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## surfchunker

Hopefully we will be able to make it down tomorrow still not sure ... that's some nice fish Susan ... hahahaha didn't see Percy with any


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## susanobx

abass105 said:


> Nice pics. Thanks for sharing. If you don't mind, what size hooks do you use on your puppy drum rig?


I like to use the 2\O Gamakatsu, however it is available in other sizes too.


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## JamesRiverVa

I'm still learning and have only caught a few pups from the surf but my go-to rig has been the hand tied 2-dropper rigs with bucktail teasers that Tradewinds on Ocracoke sells as "puppy drum rigs". Also caught a 45" drum on one of those last fall.

susanobx, are those river rig puppy drum rigs available commercially, or are they just homemade hand-tied rigs done in the River Rig style?


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## susanobx

JamesRiverVa said:


> I'm still learning and have only caught a few pups from the surf but my go-to rig has been the hand tied 2-dropper rigs with bucktail teasers that Tradewinds on Ocracoke sells as "puppy drum rigs". Also caught a 45" drum on one of those last fall.
> 
> susanobx, are those river rig puppy drum rigs available commercially, or are they just homemade hand-tied rigs done in the River Rig style?


Yes they are available now at the usual local tackle shops.


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## abass105

Thanks for the responses.


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## bronzbck1

They come in 2/0 to 5/0 circles and J's for those that like to hold there rod and some have a teaser on the top hook. Got a pic coming of a guy that used the 2/0 river rig down south and caught a 14 pound African Pomp on the rig. I will post the pic when I get it.


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## bronzbck1

cid:21960904-3A77-42EE-80BF-2EBFE2118FEB/IMAG0107.jpg


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## surfchunker

good I have some 4/0 Mutu's tied up and ready


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## NC KingFisher

bronzbck1 said:


> They come in 2/0 to 5/0 circles and J's for those that like to hold there rod and some have a teaser on the top hook. Got a pic coming of a guy that used the 2/0 river rig down south and caught a 14 pound African Pomp on the rig. I will post the pic when I get it.


 where did he catch it at?


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## surfchunker

I've got them tied in 6,4,2,4/0 and 7/0 mutu's


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## BlueWater

Susan, are you referring to the Chip Stevens rig? Im on the website but just want to make sure Im looking at the right rig your talking about.


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## surfchunker

I doubt it ... I'll make an educated guess it is a river rig with bigger hooks and probably tied with a little heavier Flouro ... but the chip stevens rig is a very good rig also


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## BlueWater

Ah I see...I have them tied in only 4 and
2 right now. Looks like ill be tying some in larger size circles. I typically never go past 5/0. Unless Im after the toothy guy in the grey suit.


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## George Gravier

Here we go again


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## phillyguy

Well, I admit it. I fell for the hype. Last week on vacation, I strolled into Right on 12 and bought a couple River Rigs. Now, I must admit they caught fish, but so did every other rig I used, most notably my own. I even stopped in the Roost to chat up the fellas who sheepishly admitted that their marketing plan had worked to perfection. Gotta love America, at least what's left of it.


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## River

Phillyguy, I've never seen, heard tell of or followed any Marketing Plan - the only plan I/We had was to prove it catches fish beyond all others and we have did that. Many people, young and old have caught Citations here on Hatteras Island that had never experienced that feeling before - it's all about catching fish ! Its hard to gauge anything here on the island now because of all the small fish and Guppy Drum around, the peckers won't leave your bait alone long enough for a big fish to get it but that'll change as Fall rolls in. By the way - that 14 lb. African Pompano was caught on a RiverRig somewhere on the surf near San Juan, Puerto Rico - I'm not smart enough to put the picture up much less follow a Marketing Plan - River


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## JAM

*Ain't No Hype and the ******* Marketing Plan was just that*



phillyguy said:


> Well, I admit it. I fell for the hype. Last week on vacation, I strolled into Right on 12 and bought a couple River Rigs. Now, I must admit they caught fish, but so did every other rig I used, most notably my own. I even stopped in the Roost to chat up the fellas who sheepishly admitted that their marketing plan had worked to perfection. Gotta love America, at least what's left of it.


A couple of ********, one from the North and One from the South who love to Fish, and pass on Knowledge.. People Open to the Knowledge came back with Citation Fish all Summer Long.. We took Pics... Worked Like a Champ.. I'm a Believer.. 

JAM


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## ruddyduck

nice fish there susan


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## surfchunker

no hype to it ... I know River personally and he just likes to see people Catch Fish and share his Knowledge ... sure there's days when fish are so thick anybody and everybody catches fish ... but those tough days is when you see the difference ... plus the day after day average shows it also ...


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## George Gravier

yeah and they make great stocking stuffers too, imagine all the talk the guy who invented the bobber would of got if the internet would have been around back then, citation bluegills hell yeah!!


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## dirtyhandslopez

Nice job all round peeps.
A quill or even a porcupine needle makes for an excellent bobber Both have bouyancy and a nice curve that gets rid of resistance when a fish has a go at the bait.
******** getting everywhere nowadays, even on the bloody computer...


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## RuddeDogg

Great pics. Great lookin fish.


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## dudeondacouch

Who is this silly person? Looks like he/she is fishing in the wrong water.


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## flathead

I've never met her and my eyesight is pretty bad but,that sure looks like a fish in her left hand.  And,I'm betting she didn't walk from that little point back to the camera unless she can walk on water 'cause the footprints are right behind her 

But,is is possible that those river rigs not only help catch fish but also help someone walk on water ?  Purdy good deal for $4.99.


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## dudeondacouch

flathead said:


> I've never met her and my eyesight is pretty bad but,that sure looks like a fish in her left hand.  And,I'm betting she didn't walk from that little point back to the camera unless she can walk on water 'cause the footprints are right behind her
> 
> But,is is possible that those river rigs not only help catch fish but also help someone walk on water ?  Purdy good deal for $4.99.


I'm poking fun at the person on the point for missing the GIANT hole right beside them. Try to keep up, mountaneer.


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## River

Them Slot Drum and big ones too just luv shallow water, I'll never forget during the January Drum Blitz of 2010 here on the Island, watching Porpoise's running down the bars in 18" of water scatterin Slot drum just like Finger Mullet being busted up by a Bluefish - wish I coulda caught it on Camera - Drum don't just like Mullet, Clams, Spotheads and single hook bottom Rigs - They love Sandfleas and RiverRigs Too, matter of fact, they love em a lot - River


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## flathead

> I'm poking fun at the person on the point for missing the GIANT hole right beside them. Try to keep up, mountaneer.


Also poking fun myself,but on a serious note....I love to fish those little points.There is always a little current and it carries stuff into a hole,usually real close by.


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## susanobx

The pic of the big pomp caught on the 2/0 RiverRig.


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## dudeondacouch

Awfully long dorsal. You sure that's not a Permit?


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## JAM

*African Pompano*

Nm


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## DrumintheSuds

Nice slough in that pic BUT.......I would fish that point all day long. I can't tell you how many times I have pulled up on a point like that; that nobody wanted and caught a half dozen pups while the guys in the hole sat in their chairs waiting. Where the point falls off into the pocket is a good spot too.

Last November I pulled up on a point identical to the one in the pic. I caught 5 drum in a foot of water on a point bang, bang, bang and left 30 minutes later. I came back the next day around the same time and caught 3 and the next day I caught them on the same point until my arms fell off. The 2 trucks fishing the hole never even put a rod on that point


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## RocknReds

Been using a River Rig (fluorcarbon) for years and have constantly out fished my non River Rigs. They do work better - sorry that River let the secret out.


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## Eattheflounder

I have a friend, a very elderly man. He has been fishing in Hatteras only one week in his entire life. His only surf fishing trip in his entire life. He caught a 44" drum at about the same exact location. Talk about beginners luck. Great for him. 
There must be something about that 15' stretch of beach,;-).


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## bronzbck1

What location is that?


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## Oldscout2

What bead colors do you find work best for pups?


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## dudeondacouch

Oldscout2 said:


> What bead colors do you find work best for pups?


None.

Just my $0.02


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## Oldscout2

Thats what I was wondering. I generally do well on panfish by varying beads, but are the larger fish spooked by beads? I run red on my fishfinders.


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## River

OldScout2, Back when I was experimenting with beads, I came to the conclusion that Red and Green were the best for Black Drum and Red Drum. But after Susan came out with all the different colors, I'm convinced that Pink and the many different shades of Pink work very well, even better than Red, I've known for a long time how well Pink works on Flounder. I tied up some Rigs with 10MM Pink Beads and 4/0 circle hook and gave em out during the last session of the Hatteras Team tournament the other week and got some pretty good results, one lady that I gave one to claims they climbed 30 positions in the last session catching Bluefish on that Rig. Green works well to as SurfChunker has mentioned several times here lately, especially the pastel green that Susan calls Margarita. I think theres a lot more to be learned about Beads including why they don't work sometimes, like this past Spring and early Summer. Interesting topic - River


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## Oldscout2

Thanks for the info -- I had some luck last fall with black drum and whiting with yellow and purple beads back to back (like a coquina clam) but nothing else seemed interested in the rig. Been hit or miss on those colors since.


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## dudeondacouch

Maybe we need to buy some of these necklaces and take them apart to use as rig beads:


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## Charlie2

School is still out on the use of beads.

I did an experiment using different colored beads, no beads, floating vs non-floating and found that different colored beads work at different times, different light and water conditions; even with different baits!

Don't be afraid to experiment. You may discover something new and different to put into your arsenal.

I even used beads on the shank of a jig hook and it worked well with a teaser. You can never tell if you don't try. JMHOC2


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## Oldscout2

dudeondacouch said:


> Maybe we need to buy some of these necklaces and take them apart to use as rig beads:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, whatever works, if it catches


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## HStew

Charlie 2 - As usual you hit the nail on the head .


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## greg12345

No expert here but that looks like a permit, not an african pomp. Just look at the head...


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## HStew

Looks to be a permit


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## dudeondacouch

dudeondacouch said:


> Awfully long dorsal. You sure that's not a Permit?





greg12345 said:


> No expert here but that looks like a permit, not an african pomp. Just look at the head...





HStew said:


> Looks to be a permit


Sounds like a consensus to me.


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## JamesRiverVa

So DitS and the rest of y'all who would fish that point, would you cast just behind the curl of the closest waves to the person you can see in the background of the pic, or would you be casting out as far as you could cast, or somewhere in between?


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## bronzbck1

Go to the Point and cast as far as you can and then watch everyone else catch fish......


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## KB Spot Chaser

dudeondacouch said:


> Awfully long dorsal. You sure that's not a Permit?


I think that is a pompano, on permit the dorsal and anal fins are perfectly in line vertically, the anal on a pompano is set slightly farther back like it looks in the pic.


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## drumchaser

Nice catches.


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## DrumintheSuds

JamesRiverVa said:


> So DitS and the rest of y'all who would fish that point, would you cast just behind the curl of the closest waves to the person you can see in the background of the pic, or would you be casting out as far as you could cast, or somewhere in between?


Hard to say without being there but from the looks of that particular structure I would fish one rig just beyond that curl straight out and fish one rig just to the right in that pocket......right where it drops off....


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## Loner

susanobx said:


> The pic of the big pomp caught on the 2/0 RiverRig.


.....did anyone WEIGH that thing???


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## solid7

That is a permit. If you don't believe that, you'd better submit it as a world record pompano.


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## AbuMike

yep sure is.....


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## NC KingFisher

solid7 said:


> That is a permit. If you don't believe that, you'd better submit it as a world record pompano.


African pompano, solid, african pompano. They get up to about 80lbs instead of 8lbs


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## greg12345

come on people...someone post a pic of an african pompano, permit, and pompano side by side so we can all get educated.

that's a permit in the pic


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## KB Spot Chaser

yep, permit I stand corrected


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## AbuMike




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## solid7

NC KingFisher said:


> African pompano, solid, african pompano. They get up to about 80lbs instead of 8lbs


You need to stick to catching sharks, friend...


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## NC KingFisher

solid7 said:


> You need to stick to catching sharks, friend...


What do u mean by that? Ive never seen a small african pompano, only the big ones.


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## solid7

NC KingFisher said:


> What do u mean by that? Ive never seen a small african pompano, only the big ones.


I just mean that an African Pompano doesn't look anything like the Carolina/Florida Pompano. That was a permit in the picture.


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## originalhooker

solid7 said:


> I just mean that an African Pompano doesn't look anything like the Carolina/Florida Pompano. That was a permit in the picture.


Also, small AP have dorsal fringe (feathers) like lookdowns, Please show me the AP that is 80lbs? I got one that was 48lb & that was 2 lb shy of WR.

as to the pic, i'd lean more towards pomp, (eye placement, head shape, color, pec fin shape),BUT - 
I just can't make out the origins & relationship b/twn 1st dorsal & anal. to me it seems anal is forward of dorsal & that just doesn't fit either? maybe the fins were squashed before pic? maybe there's another local pacific carangidae member?


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## NC KingFisher

originalhooker said:


> Also, small AP have dorsal fringe (feathers) like lookdowns, Please show me the AP that is 80lbs? I got one that was 48lb & that was 2 lb shy of WR.
> 
> as to the pic, i'd lean more towards pomp, (eye placement, head shape, color, pec fin shape),BUT -
> I just can't make out the origins & relationship b/twn 1st dorsal & anal. to me it seems anal is forward of dorsal & that just doesn't fit either? maybe the fins were squashed before pic? maybe there's another local pacific carangidae member?


I dont have a pic, but my friend and his dad were out on there boat at the tower and they landed one that was 78lbs. It was disqualified on a technicalty im pretty sure though.


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## originalhooker

that would be a fight indeed, especially in some current- that's just huge! Thats more inline w/ the pacific giant trevally - that would be cool if we got them


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## surfchunker

for me it doesn't matter that's still a heck of a fish caught on a RRPDR no matter what it is ....


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## GlenS

Well i gurss ill pick up a couple river rigs fish them too nothing to lose.. support the shops enjoy the surf... 10 more days


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## RocknReds

They work great, no what the species.


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## Loner

......well I know if I catch one of them things from the SURF....it will have to go in my mount collection....just a real trophy standing on the beach.....course its gonna be a bust thinking I could have had the world record pomp......


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## sudshunter

can i buy river rigs online ? i would like to try them...


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## tjbjornsen

sudshunter said:


> can i buy river rigs online ? i would like to try them...


You can call down to The Roost at Teach's Lair in Hatteras and River or Jam will hook you right up and ship them to your door.
Easy Peasy...


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## drumchaser

I bought some from tradewinds shop online. Shipping ain't cheap but what can ya do.


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## RocknReds

Use a flat sinker that'll move around for pups. You'll catch more.


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## yerbyray

drumchaser said:


> I bought some from tradewinds shop online. Shipping ain't cheap but what can ya do.


Tie your own


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## drumchaser

yerbyray said:


> Tie your own


Would rather support the locals.


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## solid7

drumchaser said:


> Would rather support the locals.


You can still support locals by buying the stuff at their shop that you use to tie your own. And, of course, buying their brand of pre-made rigs when you don't have time or materials on hand, to tie your own.

I believe in supporting locals, too, but there is never an obligation to buy something that I can make myself. Especially if someone has demonstrated a willingness to give out the "recipe". Each person according to his own conscience, though...


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## Charlie2

When I release one of my rigs to the public, I fully expect it to be copied. It's part of life.

I think that River feels the same. JMHO C2


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## drumchaser

Charlie2 said:


> When I release one of my rigs to the public, I fully expect it to be copied. It's part of life.
> 
> I think that River feels the same. JMHO C2


Not arguing that. I only make it up once a year and couldn't wait til nov so I went ahead and ordered so I can fish them here at Kure. Ill buy more stuff when I get there as I don't see what I need here. Thanks for the insight.


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## yerbyray

drumchaser said:


> Would rather support the locals.


I wasn't trying to get anyone rev'ed up but as it was stated you could easily buy your materials from the locals, save some cash and make a big purchase (i.e. reel, rod, fish mallet, etc.) from the locals when there and everyone comes away happier than Oprah broken down at the Krispy Kreme drive in window.

I haven't tied a River Rig and probably won't. I read every post of every page, stared at the pics of the kids, and really never understood what I was seeing. Heck, I even tried to order a couple from shops but the shipping was rather stiff and goes against my scottish frugal blood to pay high shipping for something that could be tucked in an envelope.

We've all heard that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and I guess it applies to rigs too.


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## surfchunker

but if you just get one week of fishing a year it makes just as much sense to buy a couple rigs than to spend $50 on stuff to make them


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## bronzbck1

Copying the rig from a picture is just a pure guess and has about a 98% chance of tying it wrong. We used the Rig yesterday and caught the biggest and the most Pomps I've ever caught in my life. We kept about 20 of the biggest and threw back 3 times that. It was a bad day to be a pomp with a River Rig in gin clear water.


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## K9100

Hey River where can I buy a few of those rigs ? Does Steve have them at Right on 12 ? I will be down for most of November and I want to buy a bunch. I always like to give Steve my business as he is always helpful. Thanks
Dave


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## Papa-T

Nice pics susan. My wife and I are coming down on the 12th for two weeks. Reels have been gone through, and respooled caint wait to get down for some obx time. The pics makes it Sound, lol. Thanks for sharing.


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## Charlie2

bronzbck1 said:


> Copying the rig from a picture is just a pure guess and has about a 98% chance of tying it wrong. We used the Rig yesterday and caught the biggest and the most Pomps I've ever caught in my life. We kept about 20 of the biggest and threw back 3 times that. It was a bad day to be a pomp with a River Rig in gin clear water.


How many is 'we'. There are limits. C2


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## roostertail

If stealth is so important has anyone painted their sinker tan to match the sand? The bottom hook on a river rig is quite close to the sinker.


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## tjbjornsen

Man I would have liked to have been there for that Roundup!
Good For You!




bronzbck1 said:


> Copying the rig from a picture is just a pure guess and has about a 98% chance of tying it wrong. We used the Rig yesterday and caught the biggest and the most Pomps I've ever caught in my life. We kept about 20 of the biggest and threw back 3 times that. It was a bad day to be a pomp with a River Rig in gin clear water.


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## tjbjornsen

I've pondered spraying them with adhesive and dipping them in sand, to coat them. 
But then a little voice in my head said that was taking things just a little too far...
But there are those that swear by painting them orange.



roostertail said:


> If stealth is so important has anyone painted their sinker tan to match the sand? The bottom hook on a river rig is quite close to the sinker.


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## yerbyray

roostertail said:


> If stealth is so important has anyone painted their sinker tan to match the sand? The bottom hook on a river rig is quite close to the sinker.


I don't know when I am going fishing next, hopefully in the next three weeks but tomorrow I am camoflaging some sinkers. A buddy of mine asked me to repaint his stock on his rifle earth tones and I have about three shades of sand paint on hand and nothing to do.

I can see it now.......Tactical Tarpon


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## bronzbck1

Charlie2 said:


> How many is 'we'. There are limits. C2


On what planet?


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## bronzbck1

Moved 12 miles to a different beach. WE filled a 5 gallon bucket full today catching them two at a time, puppies, & big mullet. Everyones else's mouth was just hanging open and shaking there heads. River Rig & fleas!


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## surfchunker

Earlene wants to know if that room is still ready for us, you're getting her all worked up with these reports 

RR&SF


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## Bullred

Can someone please post a pic of these river rigs????????? I might buy one if they can outfish a C-rig.


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## surfchunker

just buy one and do a side by side test


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## solid7

bronzbck1 said:


> On what planet?


Down here in Florida, we have a 10 fish per person limit on pompano, and they must measure 11" to the fork. I don't believe you have limits on them in your neck of the woods....


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## drumchaser

Tested the river rig with chartreuse beads right at dark today and landed three, yes three pretty whiting on fleas pouring rain. All in about twenty minutes. I can handle the rain but not the heat off that lightening. Will be back tomorrow after work.


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## surfchunker

drumchaser said:


> Tested the river rig with chartreuse beads right at dark today and landed three, yes three pretty whiting on fleas pouring rain. All in about twenty minutes. I can handle the rain but not the heat off that lightening. Will be back tomorrow after work.


they love the green beads ... we've caught more on green than all the others put together including naked ones


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## HStew

Glad to hear you are catching some drumchaser... I figured they may be showing up good soon. Maybe this is a sign.


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## drumchaser

HStew said:


> Glad to hear you are catching some drumchaser... I figured they may be showing up good soon. Maybe this is a sign.


The tide was pretty much dead low but were caught in the slough.


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## HStew

drumchaser - check pm..clear some space .. can't get message through!


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## yerbyray

surfchunker said:


> but if you just get one week of fishing a year it makes just as much sense to buy a couple rigs than to spend $50 on stuff to make them


I see your point and I am blessed with being able to go a couple weekends a year and fish. I tie my rigs out of what is in my tackle bag so there really isn't too much additional capital outlay.

The benefits are obvious. I can adjust a rig to the situation. If I find the fishies are going for rigs with green beads...I swap out green beads. Even on the tried and true hi/lo rig that you might buy there is room for adjustment....I can lengthen the drop of the weight so I fish higher in the water column or drop it till the bait is on the bottom. I can go beads or not...it is fun to make those micro adjustments when needed.

Another great benefit is that you can use less terminal tackle and have a more sensitive rig. That may mean better bite detection and ultimately landing more fish.

There is a reason why bait and tackle stores sell rig componants as well as rigs.


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## surfchunker

I started tying my own especially after a one on one lesson ... but I did buy a few the first trip


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## greg12345

FWIW the big mullet could not stay off my rig in Nags Head/Ramp 2 using a fluorescent orange sinker....mini pups loved it too. River rig style w/fleas and 30lb pink fluoro...


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## NC KingFisher

I can see it know, a 40page rig on the RR puppy drum style


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## susanobx

OMG!!! it wasn't the riverrig for pups we were using, it was the Susanobx rigs, fish like a girl rigs that I tied for lobbing for sea mullet and pomps, however; we kicked a$$ last weekend in Hatteras and Buxton!!!!! People were all around us fishing the same beach with identical structure and I was bringing in doubles while the caught one now and then! Dinner was grand Saturday and Sunday night with the tasty pomps on the plate. Threw back 10 to one that we kept! I can under estimate when I say we caught over a hundred fish in two days!


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## Bullred

Where can I order a dozen or so of these riverrigs?


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## susanobx

Bullred said:


> Where can I order a dozen or so of these riverrigs?


pm me if your are sincere, they don't really want anyone to plug one tackle shop over another here and rightly so.


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## Bullred

I need a pic before I spend that kind of money.


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## tjbjornsen

Bullred said:


> I need a pic before I spend that kind of money.


Seriously Dude?

To twist a phrase;
A thousand words are worth a pic... 

You could spend a couple of days reading all that has been written on this site about these rigs.
If that isn't enough, why did you post your original reply that you wanted to buy "a dozen or so"?

Susan is looking to hook you up, and you come back with "I need a pic"?

Wow...


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## surfchunker

well if you can't trust Susan you've got issues


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## drumchaser

Bullred said:


> I need a pic before I spend that kind of money.


It's just money dude, going to a great cause.


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## solid7

drumchaser said:


> It's just money dude, going to a great cause.


What cause would that be? Capitalism? Free enterprise?

Or are these the "save the tatas" edition?


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## Fishbreath

solid7 said:


> What cause would that be? Capitalism? Free enterprise?
> 
> Or are these the "save the tatas" edition?


Well it is National Breast Awareness Month...


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## surfchunker

fish like a girl


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## drumchaser

It's called "Saving Hatteras" clowns. 
You kids had some funnee answers though.


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## drumchaser

surfchunker said:


> fish like a girl


Your braver than I am joking about cancer. Not a good thing.


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## dudeondacouch

I see this thread is descending into the depths of the Hatteras paradox. Can't say I'm surprised.


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## surfchunker

drumchaser said:


> Your braver than I am joking about cancer. Not a good thing.


don't know how you got that ... Susan calls her rigs, fish like a girl, I never made mention of cancer


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## tjbjornsen

dudeondacouch said:


> I see this thread is descending into the depths of the Hatteras paradox. Can't say I'm surprised.


The Late Great River Rig Thread dipped a couple of times too, but it always climbed back out...
Give it time.


----------



## tjbjornsen

"It's called "Saving Hatteras" clowns. "

I read this three times before I realized that you were calling us clowns.
I thought you were implying that The Clowns on Hatteras needed Saving.

You needed a "," or a "you" in there between Hatteras and clowns.

Honk, Honk!
;-)


----------



## drumchaser

surfchunker said:


> don't know how you got that ... Susan calls her rigs, fish like a girl, I never made mention of cancer


One reply went "well it is national breast awareness month"
The next reply went "fight like a girl"

Sorry I was under the assumption of anything else but the name of Susan's rigs.


----------



## surfchunker

drumchaser said:


> One reply went "well it is national breast awareness month"
> The next reply went "fight like a girl"
> 
> Sorry I was under the assumption of anything else but the name of Susan's rigs.


No I said Fish Like a Girl (not fight) ... and that Girl Can Fish


----------



## drumchaser

tjbjornsen said:


> "It's called "Saving Hatteras" clowns. "
> 
> I read this three times before I realized that you were calling us clowns.
> I thought you were implying that The Clowns on Hatteras needed Saving.
> 
> You needed a "," or a "you" in there between Hatteras and clowns.
> 
> Honk, Honk!
> ;-)


HeHeHe, your right. I always was bad at correct punctuation. lol
I didn't have a quotation mark after clowns like you quoted me. That helps clarify too. Lol
Ok back to puppy rigs fellers.


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## tjbjornsen

Nm...


----------



## Shooter

Dang  and here I thought I was ready to bust out the bigol thread chopper


----------



## roostertail

Maybe off topic but I thought this was funny! http://www.ehow.com/how_5840494_build-sand-flea-rake.html


----------



## NC KingFisher

Shooter said:


> Dang  and here I thought I was ready to bust out the bigol thread chopper


Go back to sleep Shooter By the way, has any body heard from Sprtsracer?


----------



## drumchaser

roostertail said:


> Maybe off topic but I thought this was funny! http://www.ehow.com/how_5840494_build-sand-flea-rake.html


I make rakes for a livin. Don't knock it.


----------



## tjbjornsen

Yeah, but do you make 'em with flourocarbon?
And do you make 'em to catch all those biting, itching, sand fleas?


----------



## drumchaser

tjbjornsen said:


> Yeah, but do you make 'em with flourocarbon?
> And do you make 'em to catch all those biting, itching, sand fleas?


I'm a firm believer in wire and the ones I catch don't bite. LOL
Pomps & Mullet love um.


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## roostertail

Im not knockin the rake at all! I just think its funny how if you rake the area where you are they wont bite as bad! LOL! And today my wife caught a 14.5 inch black drum on a sand flea at emerald isle. One of only 2 sand fleas we caught all day. Must be too cool for em.. About how heavy is a black drum that size? We guess 1.8 to 2 pounds...


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## surfchunker

must be a different kind of sand flea http://www.ehow.com/about_5057218_sand-flea-treatments.html


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## roostertail

Ok..... Maybe Ill call them mole crabs from now on.....


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## solid7

I'm still waiting to see a picture of that African Pompano...


----------



## ez2cdave

susanobx said:


> There's a change in the air and the finger mullet are moving into the surf. To me, that means one thing; it's time to switch gears from the pompano hunt to the puppy drum. Don't get me wrong, I will still have my smaller RiverRig out with a couple of fleas, but I will double up on the other two rods with the RiverRig *puppy drum rigs*. Fished the same way with no terminal tackle and fresh finger mullet should be deadly! River and I have had great success with them in the past. Here's a few pics to get your heart pumping! What's your go to rig for puppy drum? I prefer the circle hooks as I spike my rods.


Hi, Susan !

What rod and reel are you using ?

The rod looks like a Lamiglas to me . . .

I want to get a nice lightweight outfit for my wife .

Thanks !

Dave


----------



## ez2cdave

dudeondacouch said:


> Maybe we need to buy some of these necklaces and take them apart to use as rig beads:


Hmm . . . That's not such a crazy idea . . . I'm going to try it !

Dave


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## surfchunker

Don't know what rod that one is but she loves her 10' CCP


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## bronzbck1

The rod she is using in the Pic is a St Croix with a Stradic 5000 but her go to puppy rod is CCP 10' and a Penn slammer combo. We are using the CCP 11', 12' & 10" models now. They have a better action and a nice rod for the price.


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## NC KingFisher

solid7 said:


> I'm still waiting to see a picture of that African Pompano...


Scince yall bumped this...........Im still waiting to


----------



## roostertail

Is this guy on this forum? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UUoVIBp1_M He need to be if hes not! What do you guys think of this vid? 3/0 hook??


----------



## DrumintheSuds

roostertail said:


> Is this guy on this forum? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UUoVIBp1_M He need to be if hes not! What do you guys think of this vid? 3/0 hook??


Mr. Wallace has been around a LONG TIME. I don't know him personally but many of the techniques I use to target sea mullet and black drum came from his mentoring a few of the guys who showed me the ropes......Thanks for posting this!......Didn't know it was out there


----------



## Loner

DrumintheSuds said:


> Mr. Wallace has been around a LONG TIME. I don't know him personally but many of the techniques I use to target sea mullet and black drum came from his mentoring a few of the guys who showed me the ropes......Thanks for posting this!......Didn't know it was out there


....Topsail Island.....there are about 20-35 down there that are the truth when it comes to that beach with fleas......and there are 4-5 that U just can't do nothing with!!!!!.....BUT there ARE big mullet and wall hanging pompano's un-like anywhere else in N.C......(imo)


----------



## roostertail

So he for sure is using a 3/0 hook and not a #3 size hook? Never heard of using that big of hook for mullet. Of course his beach reading skills are probable a big part of his success.. Id love to fish with him and learn a few things myself.


----------



## surfchunker

well don't let him get ahold of a RR ... the hook appeared to be a #3 just like the commentator said


----------



## Bullred

He meant #3.


----------



## bronzbck1

Looked like a #3 long shank hook like we use on flounder and puffers


----------



## roostertail

He said 3 ought. but yeah i agree he meant #3.


----------



## roostertail

I mostly use the mutu light circle owners for fleas but wonder if they really are the best? U really need to use j hooks to hook fleas like the vid shows right? Im not sure the owner circles are the greatest flea hook. Great for salted shrimp but not sure about fleas. It seems when you push the flea past the sharp bend in the owner circle it kinda opens up a bigger hole making the flea come off easier.You also have to use a pretty big circle to push it through a nice size flea far enough to hook well with the circle. Any thoughts?


----------



## solid7

roostertail said:


> I mostly use the mutu light circle owners for fleas but wonder if they really are the best?


No, they are not. I think that most people overthink the whole bait/hook interface thing. Even with the gap covered, most baits are soft enough, and these types of fishes mouths hard enough, that when they hit, the hook is gonna do it's job. When I surf fish, I often bury the bait, so that no point is exposed. And yet, I still catch fish with no noticeable difference in hook-up rate. A pomp or Gulf/Southern/Northern kingfish will destroy a flea, clam or shrimp. Ever notice how the bait often ends up past the eye of the hook? Unless you have some weird, unmalleable bait, it's the hook geometry relative to the fish's mouth, or the hook geometry and technique that determines the hook set - at least that's what my surf fishing experience tells me. I have yet to have anyone stand next to me in the sand next to me, and prove otherwise.

I have found no hook in existence that beats a Kahle hook, to date, for surf-y critters like pompano and those things you guys call "mullet" that really aren't. Oh, and a Kahle hook works a charm on flounder, too....

I have tied many different rigs, with many different kinds of hooks, and I just keep coming back to my Kahles. I would highly encourage you to give them a try, and decide for yourself. Buy the bronze (not gold) ones to start out with, as they are cheap and durable, and work well enough to let you give it a test.


After years of fishing, still my favorite hook for surf rigs:


----------



## bronzbck1

No problem at all with #4 circles on the River Rig.....coolers full of big fat mullets to prove that


----------



## roostertail

Solid i agree the kahle is hard to beat. Once i started fishing and five minutes later had 3 caught 3 pinfish on kahle. Fish that are really hard to hook. The rounded bend just slides right into there mouth. In a way tho the mutus are almost a circle kalhe hook with the sharb bend they have..


----------



## JAM

roostertail said:


> I mostly use the mutu light circle owners for fleas but wonder if they really are the best? U really need to use j hooks to hook fleas like the vid shows right? Im not sure the owner circles are the greatest flea hook. Great for salted shrimp but not sure about fleas. It seems when you push the flea past the sharp bend in the owner circle it kinda opens up a bigger hole making the flea come off easier.You also have to use a pretty big circle to push it through a nice size flea far enough to hook well with the circle. Any thoughts?




I think the Owners are the Best, I have never had a problem hookin a flea with them and I am using the 8's... JAM


----------



## BlueWater

Im glad this topic has come up...I recently caught my first keeper Pomp and was using a 1/0 mutu light owner. Which of course started turning the gears in my head.. if I should keep using the 1/0 for pomps? I normally use the #4 or #2 mutu's but never caught any keeper pomps. Im sure this was a luck of the draw and just happen to catch a keeper wandering by. Right?


----------



## yerbyray

Is there a River Rig designed for Dogfish? I need every advantage to re-gain my title.


----------



## solid7

roostertail said:


> Solid i agree the kahle is hard to beat. Once i started fishing and five minutes later had 3 caught 3 pinfish on kahle. Fish that are really hard to hook. The rounded bend just slides right into there mouth. In a way tho the mutus are almost a circle kalhe hook with the sharb bend they have..


No, they really aren't even close to a circle. A circle has the barb bending towards the shank, whereas the Kahle has the point making an imaginary intersection with the hook eye. It's a very different hook, point, gap, etc.

We don't need to have any debates, everyone should keep using what they like - but my hook up rate is far better with a Kahle than an owner, and I sure as heck like the way they hold a flea much more than the way the circles do. (contrary to popular belief, that tight bend has no impact on hooking the fish - the wide gap and bend geometry is where the magic is at) I ONLY target smaller eating type fishes in the surf, (read: pompano) and I've tried many different configurations of different things. I prefer a #4 or #1 Kahle, (although some use up to a 2/0 - not me) and if I'm using an Owner circle, I want a #1 or a 1/0. 

River - why aren't you offering your rigs with a Kahle hook?


----------



## surfchunker

I caught alot of fish on Khales ... Tried Gami small circles and didn't like them ... the Mutu's lites and khales have been pretty close to even on hookup ratio for me and I also like about a #4 or 6 in Khales and # 4 and 2 in the Mutu's and will use a little bigger on huge fleas tossed out fishing for the bigguns


----------



## River

Solid7, They are available with Kahle Hooks, It's a 1/0 Kahle - They haven't been distributed very much and are available in just a couple places - if demand increases, they're available - I like Kahle hooks and used to use them all the time, River


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## roostertail

Yeah i know what a kahle is. I was saying a mutu is almost a kahle with the point angled toward the shank to make it a circle ifya know what i mean. By the way im in Alberta Canada right now for christmas with the inlaws and it is COLD!!! -21F


----------



## solid7

River said:


> Solid7, They are available with Kahle Hooks, It's a 1/0 Kahle - They haven't been distributed very much and are available in just a couple places - if demand increases, they're available - I like Kahle hooks and used to use them all the time, River


I swear, fella, you best get them out there... Some of these guys seem like they don't know what a Kahle is, and if you don't offer a RR, they might never even see one.


----------



## JAM

solid7 said:


> I swear, fella, you best get them out there... Some of these guys seem like they don't know what a Kahle is, and if you don't offer a RR, they might never even see one.


Kahle Hooks are great, I tend to use them allot on Flounder.. But if I am Spike Fishing a few rods I want the Mutu, the barb of that hook actualy goes all the way around the hook, they will stick you when ya tie them.. I don't care wether you are a mullet or a pomp if you bite the hook you are caught. One of the things I tell folks at the shop when selling the River Rig with the Mutu's, is "DO NOT FISH THIS RIG WHILE HOLDIN THE ROD" It is a Spike Rig and works best out of a spike, there is no settin the hook, the fish does it when he hits..Never have seen one come unbuttoned yet. I declare 2013 the Year of the Pompano for me, last year was the Mullet, this year main target, Citation Pompano, on the River Rig..StandBy..

JAM


----------



## solid7

JAM said:


> Kahle Hooks are great, I tend to use them allot on Flounder..


Absolutely the go-to hook for a flounder. They are especially good, because the bait stays down in the bend of the hook, instead of having the whole circle to float around on, like with the circle.

Gotta say, though, I spike all of my kahle rigs, and I do believe that the kahle is the superior geometry for the shape of a pompano's mouth. Not gonna tell you they are the "end all" of all hooks, but those things are like they were invented just for pompano, IME. I keep going back and back to them. (tried many different rigs with circles, and I like them, just not as much for pompano in particular)

The added advantage for me of a Kahle, is that where I fish, there are also a lot of sheepshead, and again, IME, the kahle hooks up better with those when spiked than a circle. Nothing is perfect for those sneaky little bastards, but Kahle works decent for a spiked rod, especially in rough surf, where it's hard to detect 'em, even when you're holding.


----------



## surfchunker

JAM said:


> Kahle Hooks are great, I tend to use them allot on Flounder.. But if I am Spike Fishing a few rods I want the Mutu, the barb of that hook actualy goes all the way around the hook, they will stick you when ya tie them.. I don't care wether you are a mullet or a pomp if you bite the hook you are caught. One of the things I tell folks at the shop when selling the River Rig with the Mutu's, is "DO NOT FISH THIS RIG WHILE HOLDIN THE ROD" It is a Spike Rig and works best out of a spike, there is no settin the hook, the fish does it when he hits..Never have seen one come unbuttoned yet. I declare 2013 the Year of the Pompano for me, last year was the Mullet, this year main target, Citation Pompano, on the River Rig..StandBy.
> JAM


well we've had fish come unbuttoned with the Mutu's not many but River was with us when my wife lost a big Pomp on one ....


----------



## JAM

*Yeah but you guys were Mowhawkin Them*



surfchunker said:


> well we've had fish come unbuttoned with the Mutu's not many but River was with us when my wife lost a big Pomp on one ....


When your catchin that many, law of averages will take over sooner or later, bound to loose a few.. He's out there waitin on you'all to come back this year and get em.. He's gonna be even bigger.. Merry Christmas.. 
JAM


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## roostertail

I think one BIG advantange of the mutu is it is so FREAKIN sharp!! Id like to try fishing with a kahle thats as sharp as the mutu.


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## River

When I use to drag for Flounder, I was sold on Kahle hooks and still use em if I'm draggin slow. The RiverRig thats out with Kahle Hooks is called the Flounder RiverRig and it's made for basic slow dragin for Flounder, I sold several while workin with Jam this summer and got good feedback on em. In my opinion the Kahle Hook is what I call a semi circle, not a full circle hook but I've caught some big Flounder on em and like em a lot but as Jam said, I don't like em for spiking. 
SurfChunker, I was beside you when your wife lost that nice Pompano, I saw it jump outta the water when she pulled back on the rod, my suggestion would be slow down and never be in a hurry to get to the rod, once the rod goes down hard and a little drag goes off, you will 95% of the time have the fish hooked good, hopefully in the tough corner of the mouth, thats where I hook em most of the time and they won't get off. I have watched you fish - with circle hooks you don't have to watch your Rod at all - actually I like to look at my Rod and see lots of slack, that means the fish has eat the bait, swam away/pulled down hard, run off a few feet of line then headed to the beach to stop, I've caught some big fish when I get back from walkin the dog, sometimes on a good day I'll have slack in a couple rods while walkin the dog - you need to slow down with Circle hooks and give the fish time to make the hook do what it's designed for ---- just my opinion ---- 
A Very Merry Christmas to everyone on Pier and Surf, Thanks so much for allowing me to run my mouth on here also Thanks for supporting the RiverRig. It trully touches this old mans Heart to see people catch fish with a Rig I tied in the Spring of 2010 just below Ramp 45, never in my life did I expect this to happen, I have been Blessed --- Thanks much -- River


----------



## ez2cdave

roostertail said:


> I mostly use the mutu light circle owners for fleas but wonder if they really are the best? U really need to use j hooks to hook fleas like the vid shows right? Im not sure the owner circles are the greatest flea hook. Great for salted shrimp but not sure about fleas. It seems when you push the flea past the sharp bend in the owner circle it kinda opens up a bigger hole making the flea come off easier.You also have to use a pretty big circle to push it through a nice size flea far enough to hook well with the circle. Any thoughts?



KAHLE hooks . . . Excellent for Mole Crabs ( aka "Sand Fleas" ) !


----------



## surfchunker

River I hope we always get excited we when get a fish on and wanna run down there and grab it .... We've always got a bunch spiked out and sitting back watching them ... I think our problem was I had the drag too tight and ripped the hooks out ... the one huge one I had on the one day and lost I'm sure that was what happened ... you take a 4-5 lb pomp, man thats some pullage ... I'll have to say this, once I Started using Flouro my larger fish count went up ... probably caught as many total fish with store bought regular double drops and khales ... but the flouro and the way the bottom hook line is setup makes a difference with bigger fish


----------



## HStew

After many years at this , I finally pared my rigs down to 1 three foot length of fluro , a snap swivel for attaching a weight, and one knot type..(surgeons). Start with one surgeons loop knot (for quick hook change out) 2 inches long ,add hook (ones with big eyes are easier to get loop through for some i.e. lazer sharp 197 or mutu owner) . Then tie another 2 inch loop for sinker, with swivel inside the loop, 18 or 20 inches from hook. Finally tie the last surgeons loop at the end where you tie or snap onto mainline, or shock leader. Add beads and other stuff you think necessary. Yes, it is a one hook rig , and that suits me while surf fishing 3 rods. And no, it's not new, and yes you can find similar versions out there. Merry Christmas!!!


----------



## JAM

HStew said:


> After many years at this , I finally pared my rigs down to 1 three foot length of fluro , a snap swivel for attaching a weight, and one knot type..(surgeons). Start with one surgeons loop knot (for quick hook change out) 2 inches long ,add hook (ones with big eyes are easier to get loop through for some i.e. lazer sharp 197 or mutu owner) . Then tie another 2 inch loop for sinker, with swivel inside the loop, 18 or 20 inches from hook. Finally tie the last surgeons loop at the end where you tie or snap onto mainline, or shock leader. Add beads and other stuff you think necessary. Yes, it is a one hook rig , and that suits me while surf fishing 3 rods. And no, it's not new, and yes you can find similar versions out there. Merry Christmas!!!


With the second surgeons loop, the one where you attach the swivel, why not just loose the swivel and use the loop to attach the weight???? Be like a one hook River Rig then with NO hardware cept hook... just wondering.. 

JAM


----------



## roostertail

Hstew so your sayin your snood or trace is 2 inches long? A river rig doesnt have the hook looped on either.


----------



## HStew

Jam - have looped the sinker on ,but just like swivel for quick detach of sinker when transporting rods (ready to fish) up to 8' inside my Xterra. Rods are suspended from ceiling. Sometimes don't take the rod/cooler carrier on trips.

roostertail- from sinker to hook the line is 18"/20" then a 2"surgeons loop to attach big eyed hook to. And yes, you can quickly cut off the loop and snell on a khale if you need to.


----------



## solid7

roostertail said:


> A river rig doesnt have the hook looped on either.


No, it doesn't. The River Rig has the hook attached by what looks like a clinch knot. In fact, that's one thing in particular that I don't like about it. (or any rig that has a terminal knot on a hook) As such, it allows the hook to pivot inside the loop, allowing for changing the orientation of the hook. Many - myself included - prefer a snell of some sorts. That way, you can bias the hook by putting the line back through one side of the eye or the other, or you can go completely eyeless, (my personal preference) and keep the line parallel to the hook shank. That, and it's 10X easier to quick snell an eyeless, than it is to put any clinch knot...


----------



## River

Solid7, very good subject - I want the hook free not snelled, if the hook is snelled - the snell has some control over the hook, I want the hook to be free to turn the way it wants and in my opinion the way its designed for. Now, I'll tell you how and why I think it works so good for me and why fisherman need to give the fish time to hook theirself. My belief is when a Mullet/Pompano bites he'll bump it a few times before he takes the bait, sometimes they'll bump it a little, then swim in a circle (not Pompano) and come back to take it, when they ingest the bait it heads down their throat toward their stomach, at this point the fish swims away sometimes real fast, the line then gets in the very side or corner of the fishs mouth and pulls the circle hook to that corner, then the hook rolls around and sticks in the tough corner tissue of the mouth and the fish WILL NOT get off unless you mess up bringing him in and break your line. Thats the reason I don't want anything restricting the movement of the hook, I want it free to turn and bury itself in that tough area, also thats the reason people lose fish by running to the Rod and pulling back to soon, if the hook hasn't reached the corner of the mouth yet when the fisherman pulls back, the fisherman changes the hookin point and stands a chance of losing the fish. I don't want to seem like a know it all but I fished solid everyday fishable for three years till I went to work this summer, Thats how I fish and I've caught a lot of big Sea Mullet and Pompano, thats where I hook em and thats what the original RiverRig's designed for - for people that want to jerk or grab there rod as soon as it wiggles - we do make the Rig with "J" Hooks - I'd like to hear your opinion Solid7 on how the Circle works for you, I may be all wrong by the Book but that way of fishing has proved very successful for me also thats the reason I call the circle "a lazyman's hook" and my Original RiverRig fits that description also - It's about Christmas everyone, Hope everyone has a nice afternoon with their family - Merry Christmas, River


----------



## ez2cdave

KAHLE HOOK


----------



## roostertail

What style hook do you prefer ez2cdave?


----------



## Fishworkfish

If using cut bait, circle hooks are a very nice choice, without a doubt. Got all of my kids using them as well. Catch the corner of the mouth nearly every time. Makes catch and releasing the smaller ones a snap.


----------



## Vinnx

I tried out Khales the last time I went fishing and I liked em a lot! Hooked up every time and all hooked in the lip, felt like it performed better vs the circles I was using. Feels like the Khales work best on the smaller species of fish and those with smaller mouths. Circles would probably be a better choice for bigger fish with thicker lips.. plus the Khales are kind of wirery and might bend on stronger fish.


----------



## solid7

Vinnx said:


> I tried out Khales the last time I went fishing and I liked em a lot! Hooked up every time and all hooked in the lip, felt like it performed better vs the circles I was using. Feels like the Khales work best on the smaller species of fish and those with smaller mouths. Circles would probably be a better choice for bigger fish with thicker lips.. plus the Khales are kind of wirery and might bend on stronger fish.


That's a pretty good synopsis, in my humble opinion...


----------



## Loner

....yep Khales are THE HOOK for SAND-FLEAING POMPS.....Quit using Eagle Claw though..thoes bronzeys RUST right out...Owner black Khales are THE KHALE!!!!
..I do use the #2 circle hooks when targeting sea mullet ...if the rod tip moves...he's a caught fish...


----------



## roostertail

I didn't know Owner made a khale. Yeah that would Definately be the hook to using for pomp flea fishing!


----------



## roostertail

Probably been posted on here a thousand times just haven't paid attention. I'm gonna look them up. Got a pack of #2s ordered. Thanks Loner


----------



## Loner

roostertail said:


> I didn't know Owner made a khale. Yeah that would Definately be the hook to using for pomp flea fishing!


.....That Owner point on their khale IS THE STUFF!....FLEA after Flea all day long and that hook will still bring blood if U get careless...also the Owner Khale has a different bend to it....(compared to Eagle Claw) and it might be me, but if the rod wiggles and lays over...thats a CAUGHT FISH!....POMPS..black drum...puppy drum.....sheephead....big sea-mullet....blues and flea eating flounder!!!
I bought Tex.s Tackle out of Owner khales just when they WENT UP on their price...(they ain't cheap!)....then I "Cabela ed" a few hundred with free shipping and their so much off when U buy a ton...anyhoo I GOTS A FEW HUNDRED......
They come 7 to a pack for #2's and I still add a few every year...the shank will rust....but not easily......


----------



## surfchunker

Are they called K hook


----------



## roostertail

Yes the ones I ordered are. https://www.ownerhooks.com/catalog/...ucts_id=151&osCsid=7hor4ttms07dsl7e4maoosvsv0


----------



## surfchunker

Might have to give them a try ... I know I've caught a bunch on the eagle claws and these should be a ton better


----------



## River

Very nice hook, I think you'll really like the K Hook SurfChunker - River


----------



## JAM

Eagle Claws will work in a Pinch, but they will rust before the second use.... I have been an Owner Man for around 10 years.. Only other hook manufacture I like lots is VMC, Those were my go to J's for Drum Fishin.... JAM


----------



## bloodworm

Wait!!!...... This our River Rig episode 2 this deserves to go in the Bible it has over 10,000 views


----------



## susanobx

bloodworm said:


> Wait!!!...... This our River Rig episode 2 this deserves to go in the Bible it has over 10,000 views


Where's the like button when you need one???


----------



## yerbyray

Academy Sports carries the VMC offset circle hooks at a really reasonable price. The verdict is still out on the "offset" and as for corrosion, I typically use new hooks the next day or time out unless I have adequate time to breakdown all the gear and clean everyting up as it should be.


----------



## solid7

yerbyray said:


> The verdict is still out on the "offset"


I don't know if I'd really agree with that... From Wildlife agencies, down to plain old fishermen, there is a huge amount of agreement that offset circles are bad business. Now, I know, some will argue in favor, and that's all good. But it's real easy to turn an offset circle into a regular circle. (a cheap pair of pliers) If the price was right, and the hooks are quality, make lemonade out of those lemons.


----------



## Charlie2

If you bend(offset) a circle hook more than 4 degrees, it loses its effectiveness as a 'circle'. It will gut hook a fish in a heartbeat.

I change hook frequently so non-rusting is a moot issue. I buy the cheapest good one that I can get. If I lose a hook in a fish, I want it to 'rust out' in time while in the fish's maw. JMHO C2


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## bloodworm

Good point Susan


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## yerbyray

solid7 said:


> I don't know if I'd really agree with that... From Wildlife agencies, down to plain old fishermen, there is a huge amount of agreement that offset circles are bad business. Now, I know, some will argue in favor, and that's all good. But it's real easy to turn an offset circle into a regular circle. (a cheap pair of pliers) If the price was right, and the hooks are quality, make lemonade out of those lemons.


I think you misinterpreted my point. I haven't kept a fish in many years, well except those who have become bait, and really focus on making sure that they return to the water in the healthiest possible way. When I said the "verdict was still out" I am still not sure that they(offset hooks) prevent gut hooks.
I have significantly reduced the offset with pressing them flat with a very old set of pliers without any "teeth" or rough surface to screw up the hook finish.


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## surfchunker

Just had a big Mullet Dinner and I swear fish tastes better when caught on a River Rig


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## solid7

surfchunker said:


> just had a big mullet dinner and i swear fish tastes better when caught on a river rig :d


mmmmm.....









noooooo!!!!!!


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## surfchunker

naw


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## surfchunker

and that was pre river rig fishing


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## tjbjornsen

How'd you get a picture of my cooler?


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## roostertail

I wanna catch Whiting like that when I grow up!


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## surfchunker

I know they say sand fleas for big mullet, but I slay eating size ones with a pinch of bloodworm and a tiny square of the Fish Bites Bloodworm as a keeper and little extra flavor


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## HStew

do the K hooks have large eye?


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## roostertail

They are a straight eye(not really an eye snell hook) but the eye is average size I would say. I could not get 2 strands of 30lb mono through but could get 1 strand of 50lb mono through no problem. Hope this helps.


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## HStew

roostertail- 2 strands of 15 or 20 by any chance? thank you.


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## roostertail

Just tried it again if both strands come from the same direction you can actually get 30lb mono through but its snug. 20lb or smaller you can get 2 strands no problem.


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## drumchaser

Nice cooler.


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## roostertail

Just tied a new rig today. Its goin to be called the Rooster Rig!  It is a like a River rig but on the bottom drop it has two khale hooks nail knot snelled inline. The first hook about 6 inches from the loop knot and the second hook 10-12 inches. Its gonna be a whiting killer LOL!


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