# conventional vs ultra premium spinning reels



## terpfan (May 30, 2002)

i know that with the same setup, conventional reel will outcast spinning reels, but with premium surf reel like shimano aero techium and daiwa surf basia reels, it there a lot of difference between those reel and convention reels especially with braid line??


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

what a ?...not an expert by a long shot...i can cast my emblemx farther than my sl30sh...but i sure like the drag better on the slosh...i'm sure someone will add to this...


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

Yeah, OK, I'll say it!

While conventionals beat spinners consistently on the casting court, in real world fishing situations I think the superior set-up for the average Joe is the quality spinner.

I use spinners about 90% of the time for surf fishing and I am a firm believer that quality, designed for distance spinning reels matched with a good rod give up _nothing_ to conventional gear in practical fishing situations. When you add darkness, a strong cross or head wind, big, non-aerodynamic baits and you will find spinners really shine.

The spinners put out by Daiwa and Shimano also have incredibly powerful drags that can only be matched in a conventional by offshore trolling models with lever drags. 

Yes, there are applications where a conventional is better suited; live bait presentation, some jetty work and for some people, heavy payloads are managed better with conventionals. For clean beach work I think modern spinners are superior. 

Can't wait for Randy's Baitshack Cast-Yak-Swap Fun Day!


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## gilly21 (Feb 15, 2006)

Sarge,

What is your take on how the high end spinners you use and the spinners you would compare in distance to a conv., would hold up in the constant dunking we run into down here. I don't see too many spinners out on the bar with me. I have a few spinners for my light work and do believe they have exilant drags for a spinner. 

So I guess my question would be, have you ever dunked your spinners then hooked a fish. If so how did it hold up. I am curious as to how well the spinners that can cast with the conv. hold up to tough fishing conditions. I have never seen a VS cast as long as a moderate Conv. caster so I'm not looking for that comparison.

You are the spinning GURU so please ejumacate me......


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## terpfan (May 30, 2002)

gilly21, i don't know where you fish, but does it require 500'-600' cast while you are in the water? also i heard that spinning reels like van staal hold up better in the saltwater than most of the convention reels so i don't know where you are getting at?


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## gilly21 (Feb 15, 2006)

I fish Hateras point. I am not picking a fight here just curious. I have fished beside Slough and he helped me and my family in a time of need last year. And for that I am greatly apriciative. I certainly cannot throw 8-n-bait 600 feet, nor do I think Slough could either. I am refering to the post by him

"I use spinners about 90% of the time for surf fishing and I am a firm believer that quality, designed for distance spinning reels matched with a good rod give up nothing to conventional gear in practical fishing situations. When you add darkness, a strong cross or head wind, big, non-aerodynamic baits and you will find spinners really shine"

Refering to strictly the fishing reels not field reels. 

As to this remark
"i heard that spinning reels like van staal hold up better in the saltwater than most of the convention reels "
-You will se in my post I am discounting a VS because it is spacifically designed for swimming. It doesn't have as smooth a drag as even a stock Abu, and will not cast as far as any of my conv. My Diawa SLOSH's get fished hard and dunked over and over in a three day fishing marithon and one is 4 years old and has never skipped a beat. My newest wench is a AVET MXL which has gone on my last two marithons and it handled even better then the SLOSH's. My reels get broken down between trips and cleaned very well. As do Sloughs reels, I would assume, after such abuse if he does so.

Lastly I sense some hostility from you terpfan and I, will once again state I am seriously curious as I do not have a high end spinner but may buy my father in law one if it would be worth it. Or I will keep him on the Emblem and Bait runner.


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## terpfan (May 30, 2002)

if you are serious about getting a spinning reel that you can dunk in saltwater, maybe you should get shimano stella or daiwa saltiga, as they are probably advertised as waterproof. as for daiwa surf basia which i have, i wouldn't dare to dunk it underwater for any purpose. also many of the long distance spinning reel are made of magnesium, which is prone to rust, and i would not risk damaging it by swimming with it. there are reason that long distance spinning reel is designed that way so that you don't have to go into the water to place the bait where you want it. as for van staal drag system (which i do not own) i've heard that they have the best drags out of all the spinning reels.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

gilly21 said:


> What is your take on how the high end spinners you use and the spinners you would compare in distance to a conv., would hold up in the constant dunking we run into down here. I don't see too many spinners out on the bar with me. So I guess my question would be, have you ever dunked your spinners then hooked a fish. If so how did it hold up.


Hi Gil, welcome to Pier & Surf.

I am often out on the bar fishing the tournaments up here and while the reels do not spend time submerged they certainly are getting wet. I don't find sand being too much of a problem in that waist or so deep water. The line roller and main shaft are the critical spots on a spinner that gets wet and keeping these spots maintained is mandatory. I keep a pressurized gardening spray bottle on my cooler rack and the reels get a fresh water rinse a couple times a day and a shot of Salt-X. My Tournament S-6000T is pretty much bulletproof; twice that thing has been washed into the surf. One time it was gone for nearly an hour and found 200yards up the beach. Rinsed it off and fished the rest of the day. Went home and cracked it open . . . dry as a bone inside!



gilly21 said:


> I have never seen a VS cast as long as a moderate Conv. caster so I'm not looking for that comparison.


I casted a Van Staal for the first time on Sunday and I was impressed, it was a 200 with 30lb PP on a RS 1266 casting a SuperStrike 3oz popper without hooks . . . just under 400 feet. It did surprise me!



gilly21 said:


> I am curious as to how well the spinners that can cast with the conv. hold up to tough fishing conditions.


As with anything it depends on the reel and maintenance. The thrifty Montauk guys swear by old 700 series Penns with packed gearboxes. Swimming out to and getting bounced around on "your" rock is as trying as any fishing condition. 
I am at the point now (lazy) where if I'm not in competition I rarely put on waders . . . If I ain't getting wet my reels aren't either!



gilly21 said:


> I fish Hateras point.


Gil, that's the location and this thread is a sidebar to a discussion that has become P&S legend. All discussion is moot if we are discussing The Point cause braid ain't welcome there! Just kidding, there was a train-wreck thread dozens of pages long that discussed braid. . . Classic! 

The Point is it's own world with a code of conduct and imposed gear rules that are absolutely necessary. 



gilly21 said:


> I have fished beside Slough and he helped me and my family in a time of need last year. And for that I am greatly apriciative. I certainly cannot throw 8-n-bait 600 feet, nor do I think Slough could either.


Thanks for just remembering the good of that day . . . you and your family is why I was there. I'm sorry I didn't get to shake your hand, perhaps someday. And no, I can't cast 8-N-Bait 600 but if *these numbers* are indicative of what is typical for high quality conventional fishing gear, I'm very pleased at what I can do throwing the same rig with my spinner.


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## gilly21 (Feb 15, 2006)

Slough,

I don't know how or why things transpired at the end of that day. I do know you were there and I appriciate that. Also I got to meet you briefly at this years battle on the beach. I fished next to you and your son. I was in the Explorer and stoped you on your way out to the bar to my right. You may remember seeing me try to walk out to the bar and getting dunked. I got so dang excited and wasn't thinking and forgot to put on my dry top and belt. . 

I do hope this year I will see you and your son for the KJS 2nd mem. beach bash. It will be much better more organised this year. I also posed the question of haveing a trophy built and starting a second Battle on the Beach Fall edition for this tourny too. Think SSC would be game for it.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

terpfan said:


> if you are serious about getting a spinning reel that you can dunk in saltwater, maybe you should get shimano stella or daiwa saltiga, as they are probably advertised as waterproof. as for daiwa surf basia which i have, i wouldn't dare to dunk it underwater for any purpose. also many of the long distance spinning reel are made of magnesium, which is prone to rust, and i would not risk damaging it by swimming with it. there are reason that long distance spinning reel is designed that way so that you don't have to go into the water to place the bait where you want it. as for van staal drag system (which i do not own) i've heard that they have the best drags out of all the spinning reels.



I have a shimano Stella and all I can say is at $700 invested I am not about to take this reel swimming. 

I let my 525 mags and slosh's take the abuse that the point can hand out. I'll save the Stella for the boat and pier fishing. When the wind is whipping the sand up everything gets sand in it. 

I'm not about to jump into the spinning vs. conventional distance issue. I will say the whole reason to get to the bar is to place a normal cast (100-125 yds) to where the fish are. If the bar is 100yds out, You can not cast (from shore)as far as the guy standing on the bar- period. 

Nice information and good post Sgt Slough- looking forward to checking out your technique someday- maybe at the Bait Shack get together.


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

On the topic of 8nbait.......

For years I've heard rumors and surf legends of guys that can throw 8nbait 600'. I don't believe it can be done in normal conditions. Anything short of a gale - hurricane force wind at the back of a VERY accomplished 8nbait caster and there would be no chance at all.

Just my opinion, but if anyone can or knows anyone that can really do it...... please get them on a measured field. 

I want to shake that guys hand...

Tommy

PS, Mark Edwards does pretty well with spinning gear against conventional. It really is a matter of choice, what works best for the individual.


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## Homer (Feb 11, 2006)

I'd probably have a conventional set-up by now if it were'nt for a couple of guys constantly telling me "you GOTTA go conventional!" Sarge, you can probably figure out who they are. When I finally do fish "the point", (can't seem to get past oregon inlet), I will have that set-up, but for now I like the spinners. 

I owe the Sarge a lot for what i've learned- I'm lucky that I live near him- and he's never tried to talk me out of my equipment. Use what suits you how and where you fish- there are no absolutes.

I also read the pages and pages that Sarge mentioned- power pro at the point debate- very entertaining, especially now that I sorta know on of the main characters 

Lookin' forward to Saturday- gonna be a good day for a couple of reasons


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## Sandcrab (Mar 20, 2002)

Sgt_Slough said:


> While conventionals beat spinners consistently on the casting


Don't let Mark Edwards hear you say that! 

Sandcrab


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

i thought this would be a good thread...i threw squidders and jigmasters years ago when i went to the point...but on the piers in VA it was spinners all the way...i now use both...i can cast my spinners farther than my slosh 30s...my 525mag is about equal...i've seen SGT SLOUGH cast on a field...but i've never fish with you(we gotta fix that)...throws a long way...i have a problem with accuracy with the convs...straight as an arrow with a spinner... they both have there places...but i'm not spending $500+ on any reel...take care of what i have and it will last a lifetime...


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

gilly21 said:


> I don't know how or why things transpired at the end of that day. I do know you were there and I appriciate that. . . . I do hope this year I will see you and your son for the KJS 2nd mem. beach bash.


The shenanigans certainly had nothing to do with you or the benefit and I really appreciate your personal invite to this years KJS Mem. Bash. I will certainly forward entries for my son and I but I doubt we will make an appearance, hope you understand. 



gilly21 said:


> Also I got to meet you briefly at this years battle on the beach. I fished next to you and your son. I was in the Explorer and stoped you on your way out to the bar to my right. You may remember seeing me try to walk out to the bar and getting dunked. I got so dang excited and wasn't thinking and forgot to put on my dry top and belt. .


No way! I thought you looked familiar but I couldn't place a name . . . sorry, I would have liked to talk. I was very disappointed that cut I was fishing didn't give up a bass. I fished that thing inside, outside every which way, the fish just were not along the beach. That was an expensive wade for me, I forgot all about my cell phone in my wader pocket . . . destroyed! Had the waders on in the registration line making a few calls . . . dummy!



Surf Cat said:


> Sgt Slough- looking forward to checking out your technique someday- maybe at the Bait Shack get together.


I will definitely be there, looking forward to it. My "technique" is just Off the Ground with extreme violence  . I have been successful in slowing my start down a bit though.



Tommy said:


> Just my opinion, but if anyone can or knows anyone that can really do it...... please get them on a measured field.


Ain't that a fact! This weekend is the Fisherman's Casting Tournament in Jersey and one of my goals is to record each caster's tackle choice in detail; it should make for some interesting data to crunch once all the distances are recorded. With the diverse cross section of casters expected we should be able to some pretty solid conclusions regarding fishing tackle and casting performance with baited rigs.

Tommy, I'm coming down your way the week of the 24th, I would really like to meet up with you at the airport and throw a few down the field. I've been watching your videos on Keith's site, very good work. I only do OTG and I have been taking that Keith X step, it helps with compression.

I'll PM you.



Homer said:


> I'd probably have a conventional set-up by now if it were'nt for a couple of guys constantly telling me "you GOTTA go conventional!" Sarge, you can probably figure out who they are.


Oh yeah! And we won't see them in Marlton on Saturday, that's for sure!



Homer said:


> I owe the Sarge a lot for what i've learned- I'm lucky that I live near him- and he's never tried to talk me out of my equipment. Use what suits you how and where you fish- there are no absolutes.


Everything with fishing is a compromise, decide what characteristics are most important to you, (retrieve speed, casting performance, weight considerations, rod length, etc) if you can get more than two of your highest rated features in a set-up you are doing good. There is no do-it-all rig out there, not by a long shot.



Homer said:


> Lookin' forward to Saturday- gonna be a good day for a couple of reasons


I can't wait for two reasons, I think it will be a great time and I can't wait till its over! It has been allot of work that has cut into some beach time. Hopefully it will be worth it.


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Come on down Sarge. PM'd you with specifics.

Tommy


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

i am also one who can throw a spinner further than a conventional.i don't have the super spinners,just use a tica dolphin.that being said,i like using my conventionals better when fishing.my 525mag is much more comfortable to hold for a long time than any of my spinners.
this ought to be a real interesting saturday.


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## Black Beard (Jan 25, 2001)

It is a fact that on the field a conventional will beat a spinner for out and out distance.

However, on the beach with a bait a well set up conventional and a well set up spinner will trade yards up to around 180 yards, after that the conventional will beat the spinner, and the rig will arrive with bait attached more times with a conventional than a spinner at that sort of distance.

I and a couple of big hitters did a test while I was working on Sea Angler with a pair of fishing rod blanks made up one for spinner and one for conventional. We were putting a single clip down rig with worm baits - that's big old lugworm not blood worms - from 175 yards (525ft) to 186 yards (558ft) After that the conventional started to draw out a lead. 

A long time ago Paul Kerry and I did demonstration at a UKSF event using fishing rigs with jelly worms on modified hooks, Paul put a single baited rid 228 yards (684) and I put a two hook clip down 236yards (708ft) This was measured on an official UKSF court by club officials.

End of the day use what works for you! BB


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## Homer (Feb 11, 2006)

Very impressive numbers, BB! 

I'm no where near that level, but I was wondering if you tried the spinner with braided line at all. I know it's not sanctioned for competitions, but I'm only interested in distance casting as it pertains to fishing


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## Black Beard (Jan 25, 2001)

I used these field numbers because I know they were accurate. We were using our standard field rods and reels with 0.35mm running line and an 80lb shocker. At the time PK was using a 7HT and I was using an old 6500CAT Abu with no brakes, just thick oil in the bearings and thicker oil on the shaft.

I have tried distance casting with braid and I find it very 'twangy' at the point of release, in my opinion the main limiting factor with spinners and the reason it gets beaten by a conventional when going for the big ones. Using braid tends to exacerbate - ooh, did I say that LOL - this part of the cast and the loss of distance because of it.

The spinning rod I used to do a lot of damage on the field in the old days was in fact and all GLASS rod made for me by TC precisely so I could load the rod and get a smoother release by using a softer and less 'twangy' rod - BB


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## seajay (Dec 18, 2005)

BB I use stricktly a 6500 Blue Yonder and my customized 6500C4. What would be your opinion for a good spinner for the beach? I have an old 704Z but the wide spool has its limitations.


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## Black Beard (Jan 25, 2001)

Hey Seajay, what sort of duty are you looking at, dead sticking, 6/8 & bait, small lures, big lures, long range, short range, mono, braid????? BB


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