# 525 mag



## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

I have a 525 mag and am relatively new to surf casting. Has enbody been able to throw more than 6 oz & bait with this reel. Seems like even witht the mag set on lowest speed setting Spool is not designed to throw 8 and bait. Any responses appreciated


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*I was casting 8 oz. of lead*

and some cut bait at AI this pass Saturday with it, matched to OM12'.

It was great, takes some pressure from your thumb to hold the spool while casting.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*Thanks Orest*

Did you have to crank down on the knurled side knob that I believe is suppose to be the main spool speed control.(with the mag acting as secondary control.) I tightened down on the knob as far as I could with fingers, didn't want to put a wrench on it. Finger tight I know I would be in trouble trying to throw 8 oz, 5 is ok,at 6oz. things start to get hairy. I have it on the 10 foot OM (4-8oz) rod. thinking about upgrading rod, but want to know what the limits of the reel are before deciding. I use the old bicycle inner tube trick to help with holding the spool when casting heavier weights.

Thanks for your input


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*The knurled side knob*

I had tighten just enough to remove side play in the spool, and maybe 1/2 a turn more and the Mag's set at 5. Are using your thumb, a little to help minimize the birds nest. I had take the rod/reel to a football field and practice casting a baseball serveral times.

Does your slide bar for the mag's move freely below the setting of 4? Mind does and I am going to exchange it at BPS this week, they had to special order a replacement for me, they didn't have anymore 525 in stock.


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

$19.95,and your problems are solved.those who are just starting to throw conventionals and the old salts that want to go to the dark side....ie....slider on 1.....ya can't beat this conversion.


http://hatterasoutfitters.com/s-mart/525magkit.shtml


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*Al*

Does the HO kit replace the left side plate? What's in the kit?


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*HO upgrade kit*

I ordered the kit from HO and installed it last week. I just got off the phone with HO and they informed me the knurled knob is NOT intended to be used as a braking device. I do like the upgrade, gives much better control but still having trouble with >6oz. HO informed me the 525 can handle at least 10 oz,maybe more. I concluded my casting technique sucks. Go figure.

The upgrade kit is just the plastic bar housing the magnets. It's a snap to replace-5 minutes

No problem with my side bar, but I have read others complain about theirs being loose.


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*Ya it really #$##$ when we*

are the cause of our problems. 

Been there / Done that.

Practice, practice, practice.


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

Surf Cat said:


> I ordered the kit from HO and installed it last week. I just got off the phone with HO and they informed me the knurled knob is NOT intended to be used as a braking device. I do like the upgrade, gives much better control but still having trouble with >6oz. HO informed me the 525 can handle at least 10 oz,maybe more. I concluded my casting technique sucks. Go figure.
> 
> The upgrade kit is just the plastic bar housing the magnets. It's a snap to replace-5 minutes
> 
> No problem with my side bar, but I have read others complain about theirs being loose.



If your not carefully,and dis-assemble the magnets(they fall out)...you have to put the mags back in,accordingly.I would give Tres a call...to make sure the mags in the conversion are set in properly


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*weight*

Why would it matter to the reel if you are casting 6 or 8 oz? Six oz will travel faster and farther than eight oz. the amount of force put on the reel should be no diffrent with 4 oz or 10 oz. The pressure put on the spool is from your thumb. after you release it the spool is just keeping up with the weight as it travels.Lots of guys fish the 525 with 8 oz.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*surf rat*

Hmmm, I would think that loading a rod with a heavier weight would cause the reel to initially spin much faster than with a lower wieght, thereby increasing the chance of a back lash.The heavy weight is not traveling fast enough to keep up with the line that is being thrown off the reel.The same thing happens if you don't "thumb" the reel down as your weight enters the water. The weight slows down upon entering the water, but the reel is spinning at or just below it's initial spin rate. I know this to be the case with smaller freshwater bait caster reels. You have to set the spool tension to slow the reel down as lure weight is increased. Conversely if you try to throw lighter weights you have to lighten up on the spool tension, or the lure(or weight) won't go anywhere. My problem may be with the mag control. I never liked these on freshwater reels and much preferred the ability to set the spool tension by use of a spool tension knob, which does not exist on the 525 mag. The reason I questioned the 525's ability to handle heavy weights is that Penn promotes this reel as having the ability to throw extremely light weights. Rarely have I seen a reel capable of throwing light (say 1/2 0z) as well as handle larger weights. I know plenty of people are using it for tossing 8 & bait, so I'm not questioning whether or not it can be, done, just trying to figure out where I'm going wrong.

Any other opinions appreciated.


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*Did you have the same problem*

with the original mag's?


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

have you tried the drop test?

-tie on a piece of lead to your line,on the rod.

-set your reel to the tight position,the side play knowb should be tightened and the mag setting @ #8,what you are trying to do,flip the switch on the reel and drop the lead,from a 45 deg angle.

-when the lead drops,do not thumb the reel,that is why you have tightened her up.It should not blow up ,when the lead hits the ground....

-now slowly loosen the settings,until there is minimal blow up when the sinker hits the ground.

-adjust the reel accordingly.Tighten her up,for my control,loosen her if ya think your the man,and fear no blow up.

-I would also add some red rocket fuel

I do this test with every new reel.This test is just to start tuning the reel out of the box.....in due time ya,especially in fishing conditions,and how much time you have gotten used to the reel,you should be able to open her up,and let her eat


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*drop test*

Yeah I always use the drop test when using my smaller casting reels. The knurled knob control on the 525 doesn't appear to really have much adjustment capability in this respect, but I will double check to make sure I haven't missed anything. The HO upgrade is (I think) stronger magnets, which does help compared to the original magnets.

I have the rocket fuel recommended by HO, haven't had chance to try it yet


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

*Second to NS4D!*

I totally agree with what he said. I spent lots of time just casting on a lake with various weighs and setting. Even the best of them will blow up, so practice, practice and more practice. It seem like when you casting 8oz, you have to pinch your thumb down really hard to prevent it from slipping. When you do a power cast, 8oz is alot of weigh if you don't pay attention and end up release prematurely. In really, all these tuning and practicing would do no good, if you have too much to drink, not casting regularly, and casting in the dark without a mental clock set in the day time, and bad forms, and lack of confident. From what I have learned, the worst that could happen is a birdnest, so just cast the h*ll out of it. 

Tightlines.


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

CrawFish said:


> I if you have too much to drink, not casting regularly, and casting in the dark without a mental clock set in the day time, and bad forms, and lack of confident. From what I have learned, the worst that could happen is a birdnest, so just cast the h*ll out of it.
> 
> Tightlines.



thats why I just pass out....leave yall to catch all the doggies


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

Nserch4Drum said:


> thats why I just pass out....leave yall to catch all the doggies


Man, that's just wrong!!!  

But we had fun catching them doggies under a beautiful night full of stars and shooting stars. Right HighCap?


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*Surf Cat I'm no Rocket Scientist but...*

I can't say I agree. You say that the Heavier the weight you cast the faster the reel spool spins? I say the faster the weight comes over your shoulder as you cast determines how fast the spool spins. Like I said 6 oz is traveling faster than 8 oz. 5 oz is traveling a heck of a lot faster than 8 oz. If you could get 8 oz to come over your shoulder as fast as 5 oz you could cast it out of sight.With your logic 12 oz would spin the reel faster than the 5 oz distance casters use.We are talking about casting I assume and not dropping a line straight to the bottom like wreck fishing. As far as an 8 oz sinker falling from the sky faster than a 5 oz one.I'm almost sure they fall at the same speed.I wish one of the more experienced casters would shed some light on this. The knob on the right side of your 525 is the spool tension knob. If it does nothing when you tighten it you have lost a washer from inside it. I would say rateing a 525 with about a 12 oz limit would have more to do with cranking the weight in over and over than casting it. I don't think it's because the spool is spinning to fast for the 525 to keep up with, if anything it's because the 525 is to fast for 12 oz.I may be wrong. I would like to hear from some of the distance casters.What kind / size of line and shock are you useing? That coud be the problem.


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*Send an email to BlackBeard*

the man either helped or develope the reel.


http://neilmackellow.sea-angler.org/


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*surf rat*

What I am really tryin to say is the more pressure(torque) you put on the reel the faster the initial spin velocity. You can achieve more pressure thru higher cast speed (loading the rod) or heavier weight. Given identical cast speed (the speed at which the weight passes over head) a larger mass will exert more force to get the reel spinning. This should be apparent from the extra amount of force neeeded to hold the reel in place with your thumb when tossing 8 oz vs 4 oz. Let's try this example- How fast is the reel going to spin if you tie a fly to the end of the line. You simply won't have enough weight on the end to create the force necessary to start the reel spinning. As far as 6 oz going farther than 8 I think your bringing aerodynamics into play. And yes I understand that you can swing your rod faster with 6 oz vs 8 oz., which as I mentioned will increase the force on the reel. Not trying to start a controversy And I too would appreciate input from others.

Thanks


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*What*

What???? The reason 6 oz is traveling farther is because it is traveling faster. I think that if you had 6 oz and 8 oz traveling the same speed 8 oz would travel farther. Mass x velocity = kenetic energy = distance. Why do you think a .22 bullet will travel 1 mile and an artillery round traveling the same speed will travel 20 miles. It's not aerodynamics. That is all I'm gona say I don't want to look like some kind of dumd a$$.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*Surf rat*

one onther thought- you are correct about two objects of different masses frefalling travel at the same rate of speed, howver we are not talking about free- falling. Take an empty bucket and swing it 360 degrees over your head and let if go. Filll the same bucket with water and do the same thing. You are going to feel much more force on your arm and shoulders as you swing the bucket with water. Of course the empty bucket (which is lighter) is going to travel farther when you release it, due to your correct assumption that you can't create as much speed with the full bucket as the empty. Seems like we may be talking apples and oranges here.

Perhaps the drop test is a better analogy - if you set the reel tension so that you get the correct drop speed for a 4 0z jig, the reel is going to have enough resistance to prevent a 1/2 oz jig from letting line out during the drop test.

Am I making any sense here ?


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*You 2 Surf's guys are confussing*

Surf Cat I would send Neil an email. The man is the expert on the reel and a world champion distance caster.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*Surf rat*

Sorry I am really not trying to make this so confusing,


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*Orest*

Thanks, do you have the address for Neil?


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*Never mind Orest*

Caught your earlier post-Much appreciated


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*Here read this :*

Link to Neil web site on tuning the 525 mag.

http://neilmackellow.sea-angler.org/reel_tuning.html


Link to Neil web site.
http://neilmackellow.sea-angler.org/

Click on "ASK NEIL" in the Technical Section.


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## Black Beard (Jan 25, 2001)

*Surf Rat - What was the question???*

Hi - I read you PM but there are so many points raised in this thread what was it you wanted comment on?
From a casting point of view I have cast 10oz without any problems with a 525 Mag. Like anything, you have to adjust your reel tune to suit what you are casting and the conditions.

E mail me if you need fmore info:-

[email protected]

Neil


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*Surf rat*



surf rat said:


> Why would it matter to the reel if you are casting 6 or 8 oz? Six oz will travel faster and farther than eight oz. the amount of force put on the reel should be no diffrent with 4 oz or 10 oz. The pressure put on the spool is from your thumb. after you release it the spool is just keeping up with the weight as it travels.Lots of guys fish the 525 with 8 oz.


Maybe I understand this. If the 6oz weight is traveling faster it should be pulling the line along with it. If the 8 oz weight travels slower then it would make since that the line plays out faster than the weight can pull it away from the spool,causing the backlash. I e-mailed Neil on this and hopefully he will settle the issue


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

*Off Topic*

Alright, 

So, is anyone catching anything lately?  I've been wearing the skunk. I give it another shot this weekend before pack it for the winter...

...Tightline to all....


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

CrawFish said:


> Alright,
> 
> So, is anyone catching anything lately?  I've been wearing the skunk. I give it another shot this weekend before pack it for the winter...
> 
> ...Tightline to all....


nice dragon...thinkin of leaving VB @ 6pm on Fri and heading south,start @ Carolla,and make our way to OI...or hit OI,first and then hit Carolla in the AM...just plannin fishing from late fri to mid morn Sat.


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

Nserch4Drum said:


> nice dragon...thinkin of leaving VB @ 6pm on Fri and heading south,start @ Carolla,and make our way to OI...or hit OI,first and then hit Carolla in the AM...just plannin fishing from late fri to mid morn Sat.


I'm thinking of the same thing. I have a bithday party to attend on Saturday nite, I have to be there cuz I'm the cook and the party is at my house.  Al, wanna come up for some beer and more beer.. hehehe


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*Neil's response*

Surf cat, I have been following the discussion on P&S and I beleive what you are saying is correct. I had a similar discussion during our last expo here in Florida and this is the explanation I got. 
The initial speed of the spool will be higher with the heavier weight than the lighter weight given that the rod being used is the same rod for both weights. The heavier weight will load the rod more (given the same power used on both casts) meaning that the tip will have further distance to travel during it's recovery. While the tip is traveling back to it's "straight" position, it will accelerate the spool/strip off more line. 
It sounded plausible to me and could be the source of your problems. Thicker oil and full hand tight on the spool knob should help.


Thanks to Neil for the quick response. As to Crawfish, unfortuantely I haven't been able to get out, looking forward to an OBX trip first of the new year-hopefully I'll have tamed my 525 by then.


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*Surf Cat*

What rod are you using?


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

CrawFish said:


> Al, wanna come up for some beer and more beer.. hehehe



don't ask what you may not be able to handle.Let me ask the Misses if she's up for a road trip...if so,party on!


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*Orest*

I currently have the 525 mag on a OM 10 foot (4-8 oz) rod. Thinking about upgrading to a 12 foot TICA or maybe shelling out the dough for a custom. What do ya'll think?

BTW-didn't mean to suggest TICA is better than OM, but that 12 foot is better than 10. I have four OM rods, the other three are spinning. I LIke them but want to try other brands.


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

I had the 525mag nicely fitted on a 11'6 Tica....handled 6 oz great....a little hairy casting 8 and only could lob 10.....That combo caught me a many of fish,and took the casting abuse....

as for the custom,if it weren't for my auto accident,don't think I woulda got one....But

just got a 1508 and 1509 All*.....love the 1508 paired with the Avet SX....I have no fear in casting 8's and letting the reel eat.

the 1509 paired with a SLH30 is a beast to load.Marginal(cause of the loading factor) with 8 but can sling 10,easily.I have yet tried 12.The 1509 is deffinitely the stick you want in snotty conditions.


No where near a distance caster.
Just my .02 cents


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*Thanks Nsearch*

For your input on the 1508 and 1509. That pretty much agrees with what I have read elsewhere (RDT site) about those rods. I already have a beast of a heaver (St. Croix 6-16oz) for those snotty condition you mentioned. Looking at maybe something easier to load like the lami 1702 for my 525mag. Guess I just need to try a few out and find what I like.

BTW- what is your 11'6 TICA rated at weight wise?


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

Surf Cat said:


> BTW- what is your 11'6 TICA rated at weight wise?



4-10...got the 525 on her now...use it to cast metal


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

u prolly meant the lami 1502. 

by the way, the 525mag should not blow up at all if dialed in correctly. if it is, its just a matter of not having a jerky cast. i dont thumb my reels at all during casting, only while about to hit the water, or if i happen to see something nasty lookin like its gonna happen. Just practice a smoother cast, ive thrown 12 with my 525 its not the weitht, dial in the reel, and cast smoothly brother, nsearch has seen me cast and he could tell ya, i like my thumbs, dont use them unless i HAVE to. its a great reel, really is. unless ya got a magged avet, them things is good right al? bastard who is making me have to keep buying more stuff cause he got a new rod so i gotta get one and now i need an avet, anyway ima end this thread cause fleas gonna get mad at me. try tuning your reel, and smoothening your cast



neil


WHOS GONNA BE ON THE ISLAND THIS WEEKEND HEAD COUNT???


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

you guys are confusing me...the rod takes the load and the reel spools the line...8oz starts faster and slows faster than 6ozs...right?


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

I'm in(OBX)....Neil...ya don't even want ta know what I'm getting next...Teo knows...I'd hold off on the Avet,until ya cast the new TOY......if I don't like it,I'll sell it to ya


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*blackbeard*

which will travel farther if they are launched at the same speed a 6 oz sinker or an 8 oz sinker? I still think the spool is spinning faster when I cast 5 oz than when I cast 10 oz.I think the 5 oz lead will be more than twice as fast when it comes over your shoulder. Wouldn't it stand to reason that the spool would have to spin twice as fast too? I know my reels are screaming when I cast a five oz hopkins. That thing is leaveing the rod tip so fast you cant even see it till it gets out in front of you.


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## ADIDAF (Mar 24, 2004)

*to clear something up*

the explanation was not from Neil, that came out of a conversation I had with Phil Hyde. Neil hasn't responded on his board to the thread yet. Surf Cat, your 5oz lead should be traveling faster than the 10 oz lead as you are able to accelerate 5oz faster than 10 oz. But in the scenario I described I should have said that the weights were accelerated the same, not given the same force in the cast. If they are accelerated the same, the rod will load more with the heavier weight, and the tip will have further to travel to recover.


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

*Newton's 2nd Law of Motion*

f=ma 
a=v/t 
v=d/t 
a=d/tt 
f=md/tt 
d=ftt/m 
m=f/a

f=force; a=acceleration; v=velocity; d=distance; t=time; tt=time square; m=mass


substitute the symbols with the formulas and this will solve your unanswered questions.

Hope this helps!!!  

Physics for Beginners


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*Adidaf*

My mistake. I thought the response I got was from Neil. It was not. Thanks for your input.


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## Connman (Apr 14, 2001)

Light leads take off faster than heavy leads , they have an initial higher velocity than the heavy lead just because you can swing the lighter lead faster . The point some have been missing is once the lead is cast , the light lead deaccelerates sooner than the heavier leads . Light leads tend to bashlash easier than heavy leads . 
The fact that a heavy lead backlashes more for you could indicate that you have a fault in you technique or you may not be able to cast the 8oz because it is too heavy for you and you are really lobbing it rather than power casting it .


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*Conman*

I agree with your assessment. I picked up a new rod and am now casting 8oz. with the 525 mag. NO backlashes to report  

Now to work on the distance issue


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

*525*

1. should be barley able to feel movement in spool or it is to tight. will ruin bearings if you can't feel some movement in spool side to side.

2. 525 is way to fast for most of us. add two magnets. no glue needed they will stay put just fine. wwwleevalley.com sells the magnets used by many.
buy the 1/4'' by 1/10''
just put two under existing magnets and a troublesome reel will become the best you own.


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