# Beach Driving: Dos and Don'ts?



## crigg1

I've had limited experience with beach driving many moons ago. I might be on the OBX in a few weeks in an '08 Tahoe. Any tips or what to avoid will be appreciated. I know to deflate to about 18psi. What tools, etc. to carry?


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## AbuMike

Here you go...Read on McDuff

http://www.nps.gov/caha/planyourvisit/upload/071408%20ORV%20Brochure.pdf


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## SALTSHAKER

*beach driving*

Crigg just got back from the obx, most access'es are ok. I drive a Ford 150 and aired down to 18lbs... used to go to 20 but had a problem a while back and have found that 18 does the trick for me. Access 23 was a bit dicey, and number 34 is always a crap shoot... if you take your time, stay in the ruts and air down you should have no problem.... chac is having their tournament first weekend in Nov so there will be some busy places along the beach.... good luck with it... salt


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## Fishhook

Air down, go slow, stay in tracks. That is the biggest part of having a nice day driving on the beach. Carry a shovel, the number one tool for the sand. Carry a recovery strap is #2. 

Many people carry a ton of gear for recovery, but these will get you out most anytime. The main rule is once you get stuck, stop. Don't try to dig out, you will only go deeper. It's hard to do, I have seen people try to find solid ground with their tires, but sand doesn't work that way. Stop and shovel. 

A Tahoe is a good weight/balanced truck, they do well on the sand. 


Fishhook


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## hatterasnc

Good advice above.
Don't know if the link provided this, but protect your automatic trans by turning off overdrive and manually shifting to second gear so the trans does'nt "hunt" between gears and overheat.


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## Big EL

Stay out of the water:fishing:

><))))*>


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## Garboman

I am not sure what good a shovel does unless you have a decent Jack several 
2'x3' pieces of 3/4" inch plywood and assorted 2"x4"-4"X4"'s to use in order to get a framed up vehicle back on its tires.


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## plotalot

Garboman said:


> I am not sure what good a shovel does unless you have a decent Jack several
> 2'x3' pieces of 3/4" inch plywood and assorted 2"x4"-4"X4"'s to use in order to get a framed up vehicle back on its tires.


If you stop trying to use the throttle to recover before the vehicle is squatting down on its frame, a shovel will get you going without the need for the items you mentioned most of the time.


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## Garboman

"If you stop trying to use the throttle to recover before the vehicle is squatting down on its frame, a shovel will get you going without the need for the items you mentioned most of the time. "

I lived on OBX for nine years, if you air down you don't need to "recover"
from anything unless you make the mistake of driving in brown gravel on an incoming tide. I know of no one who lives on Hatteras who carried a shovel unless they used them on their day jpb.

If you have to get out of your vehicle to dig a track for it, you are running too much air.

If it makes you feel safer, carry a shovel, if you have to actually use it, change your driving habits


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## wannabeangler

Tell ya' what I take! These have helped out in many difficult times for others. I've never been stuck, though.....knock on wood.

1. shovel- obviuos reasons
2. rubber floor mats- gives you traction infront/behind tires when getting unstuck
3. tow strap- someone can help you out



4. LAST BUT NOT LEAST- DRIVE WITH REPECT FOR THE BEACH AND OTHERS.......DON'T DRIVE FAST.


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## Fishhook

Garboman said:


> "If you stop trying to use the throttle to recover before the vehicle is squatting down on its frame, a shovel will get you going without the need for the items you mentioned most of the time. "
> 
> I lived on OBX for nine years, if you air down you don't need to "recover"
> from anything unless you make the mistake of driving in brown gravel on an incoming tide. I know of no one who lives on Hatteras who carried a shovel unless they used them on their day jpb.
> 
> If you have to get out of your vehicle to dig a track for it, you are running too much air.
> 
> If it makes you feel safer, carry a shovel, if you have to actually use it, change your driving habits


I carry two shovels in my truck at all times on the beach. One is a full size fiberglass handle spade, the other is a Army style folding shovel. 

When I am fishing, and hear a 2wd Ford Ranger come over the ramp and start gunning the engine I keep fishing and wait. Once said driver has burried their truck and figures out they are stuck, they will come walking over. Depending on the attitude of the driver, he will get the short or the long shovel. I tell them to dig the truck out, and only after it is clear, will I pull them back over the ramp. 

Fishhook


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## Big EL

Garboman;629899 I know of no one who lives on Hatteras who carried a shovel unless they used them on their day jpb.
If you have to get out of your vehicle to dig a track for it said:


> I carry a slide-in camper and was fishing OI one very busy day....you know when the youngsters in trucks with big tires are tearin up the rampopcorn:...anywho, fished the incoming and outgoing tide and decided to move to location nitetime.
> 
> Started the truck, put it in gear and it started to squat. Upon inspection determined that the fronts weren't engaging. I dropped the air to 15 on all four corners, broke out my trusty army folding shovel dug a trail to the main rut eased on out went across the street to the fishing center, aired up and fished the piers the rest of the time I was there. :fishing:
> 
> Sure was glad I always carry that shovel with me.
> 
> Found out the servo in the fronts had failed, quick fix and I was back on the beach.
> 
> I'm an X boy scout.....Always be prepared.
> 
> ><))))*>


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## notso

*use for a shovel*

I have seen one situation where a shovel was a god send. A certain person who sometimes posts on this board & has been on the obx for MANY moons, happened to hit a stump up on the "flat beach". Well the stump flattened both left side tires & that almost framed the truck out. This gentleman (I use that term loosely) had some medical issues which prevented him from crawling under the truck to get the jack under there. I was busy digging out a place for the jack with a sheet metal bracket from my truck when a lady cop showed up & called the other cop on duty to bring the shovel. I could have kissed her. Of course the shovel would have been of no use without the 12" sqaure piece of plywood to put it on.......
2 spare tires & sand everywhere it shouldn't be later, he was on the road again.....
what a way to start a weekend..............
I did catch my biggest drum to date the next night.......


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## Jersey Dave

Forward may not always be your best option...many a time I have gotten out of a jam going in reverse...


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## EABiker

I'm not an expert by any means, but since I drive my wife's truck on the beach, I am paranoid! Air down to 18lbs; I air down when I get to OBX and stay aired down the whole time until ready to leave; no need to air up and down every day. Never use your brakes on the sand to stop; you will just make 4 little wheel chocks in front of your tires if you do. Ease into the throttle when you start out; gunning it from the get-go will just dig you in, (saw quite a few do that last time I was there!). Check your 4WD before you hit the sand; try a tight turn in 4WD on pavement; you should feel a jerking in the wheel. Saw a few trucks who thought they had all 4 pulling; they were wrong. Use your own tracks to start out after you park; you made it in; you'll make it out. Keep an eye out for drivers who seem "iffy", if they get stuck in front of you they may block the only route you have out. Aggressive tread patterns may be good for mud, but they can dig you in quick on soft sand. Hope some of this helps!


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## EABiker

Almost forgot; don't stop on the ramp after cresting it; the sand will be the deepest there. Decide before crossing whether you want to go left or right; if someone is in your way, go the other; you can always turn and go the other way at some point. Same thing when you leave; give enough room between you and anyone in front of you so that if they get stuck on the hill, you will not have to stop and potentially get stuck in the deep stuff as well!


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## EABiker

Almost forgot; don't stop on the ramp after cresting it; the sand will be the deepest there. Decide before crossing whether you want to go left or right; if someone is in your way, go the other; you can always turn and go the other way at some point. Same thing when you leave; give enough room between you and anyone in front of you so that if they get stuck on the hill, you will not have to stop and potentially get stuck in the deep stuff as well. If you do bog down, steering from side to side often will help pull you through.


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## crigg1

Good tips all, thanks.


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## Garboman

One of the reasons I never carry a shovel is that I will typically carry 
5-6 Heavers inside my Suburban. 

I carry the Jack and plywood which doubles as a bait cutting board.
I carry the assorted 2x4's and 6x6's and Jack. A four foot 2x4 can move enough sand for me in an emergency. If I was out in the desert, I would carry a shovel, hard to dig rocks with a 2x4.....but this is the beach and sand is easy to move....
I also carry a stout rope to pull out folks, I feel like assisting.

I would rather have an extra rigged heaver ready to go, since I am out on the beach to be fishing not be a farmer.......

I have thought about a shovel from time to time, but carry a pretty well stocked box of mechanics tools instead.
You reach a point where one decides what is most important, and I set space aside for a large cooler of ice and several gallons of drinking water, besides a 120 quart Gott cooler that doubles as a tackle box.

One fact about a shovel on the Hatteras is that if you dig down 5-6 feet in most areas you will hit fresh water, even on the upper beach, it may be slightly salty and perhaps sulfurous, but it would keep you alive......some of the shallow private wells on Hatteras have sweet pure water as fine as anywhere.....


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## Big EL

No need for a long or short handle shovel. Mine is military issue, made to be carried on a web belt. it measures less than 12"X12"X 2" folded. It sits under the rear bench in the truck on top of my tow strap. Also can be used as a saw, a machete or a "defacer"opcorn:

><))))*>


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## redfishnc

*Brown coarse sand*

"driving in brown gravel on an incoming tide".

Do what he said above. We have this brown coarse sand at Ft Fisher in NC and I believe it can be the baddest of the bad. I have seen the fiercest 4x4 have trouble coming up the beach from this stuff.

Isn't there only two groups in this discussion, those that have and those that are waiting to be?


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## Garboman

"Also can be used as a saw, a machete or a "defacer""

I carry an 1100, it is a wilderness out there.............

If I had an overly heavy rig like a slid in I would carry a real shovel, being an ex construction guy I have some nice ones in my garage.

At any rate the goal is not to get "stuck" in the first place.....so don't drive in the water.....something bad might happen.



"Keep an eye out for drivers who seem "iffy"

That description would probably fit me.......


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## smacks fanatic

dont run over kids well just stay out of the soft sand near the dunes else you will get stuck, tyhen you should be pretty fine, except for kids


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## jlove1974

I don't air radial tires down more than 25psi, esp in a big heavy vehicle like a full Suburban. I also don't recommend anything more than an A/T tire....

I also try not to drive anywhere there are not already tire ruts at the approximate depth I want to travel in. It's hard to get out of deep ruts sometimes but you know the bottoms are usually hard-packed (relatively) sand


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## EABiker

Don't run over any birds in Hatteras............


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## jlove1974

EABiker said:


> Don't run over any birds in Hatteras............


or sea turtles' nests that would get moved if they were 20 miles N in Pea Island


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## cobia_slaya

Big EL said:


> Stay out of the water:fishing:
> 
> ><))))*>


now that should be #1 lol


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## wannabeangler

Garboman said:


> "If you stop trying to use the throttle to recover before the vehicle is squatting down on its frame, a shovel will get you going without the need for the items you mentioned most of the time. "
> 
> I lived on OBX for nine years, if you air down you don't need to "recover"
> from anything unless you make the mistake of driving in brown gravel on an incoming tide. I know of no one who lives on Hatteras who carried a shovel unless they used them on their day jpb.
> 
> If you have to get out of your vehicle to dig a track for it, you are running too much air.
> 
> If it makes you feel safer, carry a shovel, if you have to actually use it, change your driving habits


Just a quick note....I know of no-one that lives in the desert and goes for a walk and carries water with them to boot! Same can apply for all that live in various locations. But think about it...better to be safe and prepared, rather than be sorry and not have it. You've lived there, in OBX, for 9 yrs, right? I've lived near the beach my entire life. The one time you get stuck and need a shovel, and you ain't got one....then what? Better to have it and not need it, rather than to need it and not have it!


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## Garboman

Like I said before carry a shovel if you want, you probably need one
I am tired of people telling me I need one for the OBX beach.

I carry water, rods, ice, tools, an 1100, cellphone to call Mac's if I break down

Way it looks might not be doing much driving on the OBX, I have lived on a Beach for 14 years of my life
and have spent 25 years fishing the OBX beaches and gone through 5 off road vehicles and spent hundreds of hours driving the beaches, you fellas carry what you think you need and I will do the same..


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## wannabeangler

Garboman said:


> Like I said before carry a shovel if you want, you probably need one
> I am tired of people telling me I need one for the OBX beach.
> 
> I carry water, rods, ice, tools, an 1100, cellphone to call Mac's if I break down
> 
> Way it looks might not be doing much driving on the OBX, I have lived on a Beach for 14 years of my life
> and have spent 25 years fishing the OBX beaches and gone through 5 off road vehicles and spent hundreds of hours driving the beaches, you fellas carry what you think you need and I will do the same..


Wasn't telling "you" anything....but if "you" took it as such....well...there's something to be said. I say, "It's better to be prepared for any situation.". That's all. Sorry if I made you get a tad upset........ My bad homey! Have fun at OBX on your next visit!


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## rivercat

if 18#s works for 1/2 tons and jeeps whats best for 3/4 ton diesels? I have an excursion I recently ran 27# a fort fisher and wasn't impressed I would like to go lower if its ok...


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## Big EL

The thing I get the biggest chuckle out of is these folks who put a body lift on thier truck and 17" to 35"tires on and think they've increased thier ground clearence, thus making them superman.......

Then they don't air down to at least 20lbs and can't understand why they got stuck at the ramp.opcorn:

><))))*>


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## FishyFingers

theres been a ton of good tips in here. drive slow for sure, stay in good ruts, watch out for kids, if you start to bog down, either reverse or use 4low. also as stated before, turn your OD off and stay in 2nd. Keep you eyes on the gauges too, make sure you dont over heat. I would also bring a strap and a shovel. I always carry a strap with me in case someone is stuck or if something happens to my 4wd. My sister had a blazer almost like mine and her front hubs went out, i was able to tow her off the beach because i had the right equipment. 

I have a k5 blazer on 36s so i dont air down. but i stay out of the water because bad things happen and i dont go tearing down the beach. it messed up the ruts and it puts a bunch of stress on your truck. 

good luck and stay safe!


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## Big EL

FishyFingers said:


> I have a k5 blazer on 36s so i dont air down.



You are part of the problem then...............Hard tires will chew the ruts up causing ripples in the the ruts.

Don't be a Bonehead..........Air down!opcorn:

><))))*>


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## smacks fanatic

ive been on daytona beach and absolutely no one airs down. no one!!


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## AbuMike

smacks fanatic said:


> ive been on daytona beach and absolutely no one airs down. no one!!


and thats FL not the beaches of NC. try that here and you will be framed up in notime...


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## wannabeangler

smacks fanatic said:


> ive been on daytona beach and absolutely no one airs down. no one!!


they drive EVERYTHING on the beaches down there....it's like driving on the road. There is NO comparison! Try it here and you'll get stuck as soon as you get on the beach.


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## FishyFingers

Big EL said:


> You are part of the problem then...............Hard tires will chew the ruts up causing ripples in the the ruts.
> 
> Don't be a Bonehead..........Air down!opcorn:
> 
> ><))))*>


i beg of you to tell me now im the problem....
i dont even go fast enough to kick sand up much less cause ripples in the ruts.


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## Big EL

Big tires are not the answer in soft sand..............Soft tires are. Ever heard the term "Balloon tires"

The idea is to ride on top of the sand not plow thru it. 

Oh and by the way.....Hard tires cause ripples unless you're sitting still!

opcorn:

><))))*>


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## Dr. Bubba

Big El is correct. Please do everyone else a favor and air down.


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## SNDFLEE

Or don't and call Jarvis to tow to asphalt for 150 dollars.opcorn:


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## FishyFingers

believe me, i wont be needing a tow


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## Cdog

No surprise with that answer. Some people know it all and never need to listen...


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## FishyFingers

no i just havent been on the beach since all the bird issues came up opcorn: 

but if the beaches do open back up ill consider airing down to see how much more i can make a 16.5 in tire float


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## tripp

ive been on the beach with fish more times than i can remember. I have never see him get out the truck (other than to grab a beer from the back) to air down his tires. hell a few times he wasn't even in 4 wheel drive. His truck does fine on the beach without airing down, even pulled me off a few times.

Me on the other hand, i lock in my hubs at the street, hit the sand running, get a lot of momentum and dont stop till i get to our desitination. jumping ruts and playing chicken with people till they move! no other way to do it. :beer:


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## Dr. Bubba

FishyFingers said:


> believe me, i wont be needing a tow


I honestly hope that statement does not come back to haunt you, really, I do.



FishyFingers said:


> but if the beaches do open back up ill consider airing down to see how much more i can make a 16.5 in tire float


You're still missing the point in that nobody cares a whole lot about how your tires float, but instead care about the condition you leave the ruts rippled and less easily navigable for others by not airing down.




tripp said:


> ive been on the beach with fish more times than i can remember. I have never see him get out the truck (other than to grab a beer from the back) to air down his tires. hell a few times he wasn't even in 4 wheel drive. His truck does fine on the beach without airing down, even pulled me off a few times.
> 
> Me on the other hand, i lock in my hubs at the street, hit the sand running, get a lot of momentum and dont stop till i get to our desitination. jumping ruts and playing chicken with people till they move! no other way to do it. :beer:


Finally, with expert advice like this, I suppose we should all rethink how we've been driving on the beach. I mean, I've learned from people who have been driving on the beach since the 50s and 60s. I suppose they taught me wrong over all these years. Go figure....Thanks for the input!


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## tripp

hey dick, it was a joke!


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## AbuMike

This is fixing to get interesting........opcorn::beer:


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## FishyFingers

ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY DRIVERS OF THE BEACH! Im sorry I dont do it your way and no that statement about not needing a tow will not come back and haunt me. I know things break but I keep my truck in top condition and dont go tearing down the beach. 

And you can talk ripples and tore up ruts all you want to but the bottom line is big tires are built to float and thats what mine do. I dont run a rock solid tire with 50 lbs of air in it but I'm not going to air down to 18 lbs neither, I dont need to. So bitch till you are blue in the face about what I do but it wont change a thing. 

If you see a light blue, '87 K5 on the beach with an independent dealer tag on it and sittin on 36s you can come over and say hello, i wont be a jerk about it but the bottom line is people who dont air down stock tires will cause damage, I dont... well no more then the next guy


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## Shooter

Ya don't tug on Supermans cape, ya don't mess around with Big Jim and ya do go get to sit in the time out section for calling a Mod names.


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## SNDFLEE

Hey Fingers out of curiosity what type or brand name are your tires? I run 36" Mickey Thompsons and have a terrible time with them in the sand. I have a feeling the tread is to aggressive. That is why I am curiuos about what you run? Thank you for the info.


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## FishyFingers

Shooter said:


> Ya don't tug on Supermans cape, ya don't mess around with Big Jim and ya do go get to sit in the time out section for calling a Mod names.


aww you get to go to time out... go sit in your room and dont play with your toys  i love how the mods can talk trash and get worked up over something so small but people who wont waist $20 get to sit in "time out" 

i guess slingin got sent to timeout as well...


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## FishyFingers

SNDFLEE said:


> Hey Fingers out of curiosity what type or brand name are your tires? I run 36" Mickey Thompsons and have a terrible time with them in the sand. I have a feeling the tread is to aggressive. That is why I am curiuos about what you run? Thank you for the info.


i have pernelli jones tires. i thought my tread would be to aggressive as well but i tell you what, i think they roll through the sand better then BFG A/Ts or any other tire ive uses. My sister has 36x16.5 Mickeys and she likes how they feel. What truck do you have yours on? Hers are on a K5 as well. Ive never driven her K5 on the beach though.


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## Cdog

FishyFingers said:


> no i just havent been on the beach since all the bird issues came up opcorn:


So you have not been on the beach since 2000???? Well I guess we don't need to worry about you tearing up the beach then...


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## FishyFingers

Cdog said:


> So you have not been on the beach since 2000???? Well I guess we don't need to worry about you tearing up the beach then...


the beach wont closed down till like 2007 or so... well at least oregon inlet


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## SNDFLEE

FishyFingers said:


> i have pernelli jones tires. i thought my tread would be to aggressive as well but i tell you what, i think they roll through the sand better then BFG A/Ts or any other tire ive uses. My sister has 36x16.5 Mickeys and she likes how they feel. What truck do you have yours on? Hers are on a K5 as well. Ive never driven her K5 on the beach though.


My tires are on 98 silverado,3" body lift,6" suspension lift, 16x8 bead lock mickey thompson wheels, 36" mickey thompson tires. I HAVE to run my tires at 20-18 to keep from having problems digging. That's why I was curious what you ran and stayed on top of the sand. Michelin is about the best tire Ihave found so far.


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## FishyFingers

i can honestly say ive never had an issue with digging. i can run as fast or as slow as i want, stop anywhere i want (not including quicksand lol) and never have an issue. i run around 26-30 lbs. i really like them. ill have to ask my sister about her ride on the sand. but from what ive seen when we were on the beach she didnt have any issues... other then front hubs but hats another story haha

what ones do you have? she has the baja but for the life of me i cant remember if they are radials


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## Cdog

FishyFingers said:


> i run around 26-30 lbs. i really like them. i


So you do air down!!!THats all you had to say. I don't think any one here said you had to air down to 20, just air down!


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## dood

Definition: Hubris

The characteristic of excessive confidence or arrogance, which leads a person to believe that he or she may do no wrong. The overwhelming pride caused by hubris is often considered a flaw in character. While these hubris feelings are often justified, they often cause irrational and harmful behavior.


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## SNDFLEE

Mine are radials, have great ride but performance on or in the sand is another story. They DEFINATELY dig to much to not air down. I like the tires for everything but how they perform on the beach. I will be paying a lot more attention to tread pattern next set. Problem there is choices limited in a big tire(36 etc). Most big tires made for offroad in the mud which is completely different story than the sand in my humble opinion.


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## SNDFLEE

I'm sorry you asked what name on the mickey's, they are baja's. I will take a look at the pernelli jones they sound more of what I was looking for. I do know one thing a big tire IS easier to maneuver off the sand aired down than a smaller tire!!


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## BIG FINN

ha ha tripp got suspended who cares right.


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## SNDFLEE

Who's tripp? What did he do? I know a maggot who scammed a total of a thousand dollars from members of this site and still uses it WITHOUT any suspension or whatever!


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## FishyFingers

Flee,

Look one page back and you'll see what tripp said. he made a joke about his driving style vs my driving style on the beach and someone got upset and ranted and tripp said it was a joke. well shooter got it panties up in a bunch because of who tripp said it was a joke to and banned him. no scams here 

but back to the tires. im really shocked your tires dig, i thought mickey t's were pretty much ment for sand. i would like to try the trxux sts tires too, they look like they have a really good sand tread


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## SNDFLEE

They sure won't ban a thief!!!! Mickey Thompson's are definately made for the mud. Toyo tires have a much better tread pattern for the sand. I found this out to late of course.


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## Shooter

I just love when new people come on this board and think they know EVERYTHING and the complete history of P&S.

I am use to folks getten pizzey during the dead of winter and summer and ain't got nothing better to do than sit around and find things to fuss about, just ask anyone that has been on this board for enough years how it was.

Fishfingers, you have been here all of just a little over 2 months and I have heard more crying and pouting from you than a whole heard of 1st graders.

Did some of your buddies get themselves in trouble? YUP, and their actions caused reactions for them. Just remember they caused them, No one on here made them type their words. As a matter of fact your one buddy had been booted once before and threw the kindness of Fleas heart he was let back on for a second chance.

Now if you go back and do a search you will find out SandFlea the OWNER of P&S has stated that if your just here to stir up trouble you will not be here long. I would advise you to heed his words (not mine).

This is for the folks that has been here a while,,, I sure do miss Hat 
I can hear him chanting in the back ground now (Ya'll know what he would be saying)

Just because it is Christmas and once a year I have to do something nice, I will pick you as my charity case and wipe your slate clean.

Now I will pass this to you, it is Christmas so go forth from this day forward and post fishing reports and be helpfull.


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## Tracker16

tripp said:


> hey dick, it was a joke!


And the soup Nazi says "You're banned, No soup for you"


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## FishyFingers

i dont think i really piss and moan, i say what i see. if you think i "cry" to much then i'd hate to see what you think of others. yes ive been a member for a couple months but if you think ive been fishing and on the water for a couple months, you are saddly mistaken.

i dont want to hear about the grace of peoples heart and all that jazz, its a website. and my 2 friends that you banned go fishing at least once a week so no they dont just set up here board and try to cause trouble. i dont see what was wrong with someone posting a picture saying if you see this guy with no lights and running nets, call someone. the squeaky wheel gets the oil. then some all knowing people went on there and took that post in the wrong dirction. if the owner has an issue with me, then tell him to come talk to me or ban me... either way i wont lose sleep. ive has posts taken down when i gave good advice and all i got told was "read the rules" i read them and didnt see where i did anything wrong. 

ive seen more jokes on here and someone else gets twisted and lectures about a joke. so before singling me out, take a look around... including your other mods. i dont know the history of P&S and i dont plan on figuring it out but if i see something i dont agree with then ill say i dont agree with it. and it seems that because i dont agree with some people then i get the threat of being banned. and if i get banned then so be it, it seems like all the people ive met kayak fshing were from TKAA and HRkayakfishing. now that ive said my peace...


flee
have you thought about selling you tires and gettin toyos? i dont know what the diff in price is but i know mickeys hold their value pretty well assuming they arent to wore down or plugged up


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## SNDFLEE

No like I said I like the tires for everything but sand. They seem to be wearing nice etc.. I will probably just pay more attention to the tread pattern etc. when i have to buy new ones. Will definately look at pernelli jones sounds like they are worth a look see. Thanks for your input.


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