# Braid line for conventional reel = more distance?



## jplikewoah

I am thinking about changing out the mono line to braid on my penn squall conventional reel. Will I gain a noticeable amount of distance for doing this? I know it's a night and day difference for the spinners since braid lines are thinner/lighter hence they cast further, but how about for conventionals? Since I have to somewhat match the diameter of 17lb-20lb mono line, I am thinking of 65lb braid line. 

Thanks in advance for your input.


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## csurp

just a beginner here, but have both the squall 15 and 525 mag. When I first got the 525, my first inclination, like you, was to go to braid....man what a mistake. Blow ups are going to happen. When they happen with mono (I use 15 lb Big Game for Pompano), they can be bad...but when they happen with braid...forget about and break out another $20.


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## dudeondacouch

Yeah, braid doesn't really lend itself well to conventionals and power casting.


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## fish bucket

if you are going to use state of the art reels why not use state of the art line?
with magged reels your birds nesting should be very limited
my conventionals are loaded with braid and i power cast with few blow ups.
when they do occcur they are no harder to untangle then mono.


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## solid7

dudeondacouch said:


> Yeah, braid doesn't really lend itself well to conventionals and power casting.


Respectfully disagree on this one. They do power cast quite well. HOWEVER, they are MUCH less forgiving when you overspool mid-cast. Sometimes you can save a "flyer" if you catch it early with mono. Braid, however, has no stretch, and will snap like a twig.



fish bucket said:


> when they do occcur they are no harder to untangle then mono.


Agreed. In fact, it's usually (in my experience) easier to pull nests out of braid - I would much rather pull nests out of braid than mono. Unless there are knots. Then forget it.


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## Jersey Hunter

Braid works best for me, but would like to hear from one of the pros to see what they can get more distance with.


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## dudeondacouch

To clarify, I didn't mean that you can't get good distance with braid. I meant that it's much easier to throw a big nest, and once you do, your only choice is scissors.


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## jplikewoah

Thank you everyone for your input, I appreciate it. I am aware that once you blow up bad enough with braid, you will need to cut them up and re-spool. I will be extra careful and try to minimize this.

However, I just wanted to know from braid users that if using braid on conventional reels= more distance?


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## dudeondacouch

Also, don't think it's been said yet, make sure and spool the line over some form of backing (mono or tape) to keep it from slipping around the spool, and also spool it under tension to keep it from being loose and digging into itself under pressure.


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## solid7

dudeondacouch said:


> To clarify, I didn't mean that you can't get good distance with braid. I meant that it's much easier to throw a big nest, and once you do, your only choice is scissors.


I know that you didn't mean anything about distance - my biggest problem with braid is that the line is VERY light weight, and it tends to loop over the end of the rod after a cast. You REALLY have to watch that...



jplikewoah said:


> However, I just wanted to know from braid users that if using braid on conventional reels= more distance?


I suppose that is a function of your line diameter and weight. Figuring most people around here use 17-20 lb test, a good braid replacement is 30 lb. It is usually about 8lb line diameter equivalent. And it has enough strands to start to stand up to abuse. (any lighter, and you are too thin, and asking for trouble, in my opinion) I think you will find that 30 lb braid throws VERY well, but I've never cast it side by side with 20 lb. mono. I know it doesn't cast much (if any) farther than the 12-15 lb. mono that I use, but your results may vary. I fish some places and time with braid, and some with mono, but no quantitative tests. Seeing that I fish the same haunts repeatedly, and have seen huge gains by virtue of casting technique alone, I can't say for sure which is better for casting - but what I can say is that if I don't notice significant differences at my frequently fished spots between the 2 lines, then a significant difference *probably* doesn't exist. 

But what the hell do I know...


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## kingman23

I switched one of my conventionals over from 20 lb mono to 65 lb braid and there isnt much of a difference in the distance really. So, the answer to your question about the distance is no, the braid doesnt give you more distance than mono (at least in my case) but I do get more line on the reel and I have a much stronger line.
:fishing:


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## SALTSHAKER

Spooled my mag elite with 40lb power pro and have had no problem, or course I am not power casting. Shortly will spool the akios ctm 656 (one of them) with the same 40lb power pro, leave one spooled with the mono for casting etc.... salt


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## tjbjornsen

I'm betting that I am going to get into a lot of trouble here, but sometimes the beginner guy notices stuff that the real deal guys pass over.
But is not the real reason that braid affords more distance on spinning reels is because it is limper and more supple, while also being thinner in diameter, (releative to pound test) thereby leaving the fixed spool with less resistance?
I don't see how those characteristics are transfered to how line leaves a conventional reel, since it is coming off in a straight line.
I guess that its limpness might allow it to come off the spool easier, but by how much?
There are other obvious reasons to use braid on a conventional, (line capacity/sensitivity/durability to light and heat, etc...) but it seems to me that casting distance wold not be one of them.
Then again,
I've never tried braid on one of mine.
Gimme a minute to get my helmet, and the pros can start swinging...


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## nickvaughn

personally i love casting 50pound power pro on my avets.....but when you get a back lash wich all of us do sometimes..i always end up having to cut the knot out and i dontknow about any one else but i cant afford to buy power pro evry time i go fishing..


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## wskitchen

No braid for me! I put a $17.00 spool of sufix tritanium on and get to pick my nests out with ease. With a 50# shock you can power cast all day and have no line troubles. I like it anyway.


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## fish bucket

if you change from 17-20# mono to 30# braid you will get more distance just through the factor of the line being so much thinner.
braid has so many other attributes that i would use it even if the distance was the same.

in a side note;all you guys getting so many backlashes should try magged reels.
i get very few nests and even fewer that i can't get out.
it's real easy to static mag a reel.


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## solid7

fish bucket said:


> in a side note;all you guys getting so many backlashes should try magged reels.
> i get very few nests and even fewer that i can't get out.
> it's real easy to static mag a reel.


You don't need magged reels. I used both, and have no trouble. If it comes down to the braking, and you can't keep backlash away, you are running too close to the edge. (trying to get that extra bit of performance) That's true whether you are magged or not.

But I do agree, that the nests aren't as bad with braid. On the other hand, if you are in a full power cast, and you have a blow up, it really doesn't matter if it's braid, mono, or anything else. I haven't seen too many full power casts which result in backlash that can be recovered. So if you have a problem with spending $$$, might want to stick with pure mono, and invest the extra in spare spools. (I have 3 spools for each of my conventional reels)


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## Jersey Hunter

I think the difference in the weight of the lines has something to do with your distance. Why else would the guys in casting contest use such a light line. Your sinker has to pull the line even after it leaves the rod and reel. Pretty sure 30lb braid weighs less than 20lb mono so it may have an advantage in distance. So the advantage should go to braid. Still like to hear from the pros.


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## solid7

Jersey Hunter said:


> I think the difference in the weight of the lines has something to do with your distance. Why else would the guys in casting contest use such a light line. Your sinker has to pull the line even after it leaves the rod and reel. Pretty sure 30lb braid weighs less than 20lb mono so it may have an advantage in distance. So the advantage should go to braid. Still like to hear from the pros.


Seems to me that the only mass that matters is the spool, itself. Seeing that the weight can't travel any faster than the spool can spin. (at least not while it is still attached) So, even if the line in the air is lighter, the load on the spool which must be overcome is the same, and the weight of the braided line must be comparable. Ok, so it's thinner, but you have roughly the same amount of mass (in line) on the spool - maybe even more when you figure that braid lays tighter on the spool.

I am no authority, but this is my untested hypothesis.


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## Espresso

I'm by no means a distance caster but from my person experience, unless you're already able to maximize your casting distance with mono, there's no need to use braid on a conventional for purely distance (if it's sensitivity of braid or capacity, that's a different subject). Practice makes makes distance. On the other hand, if you've reached your peak in terms of distance, switching to a braid with a lesser diameter might improve your distance. The problem then becomes convenience over the marginal distance you gain. Say you're able to gain 20 yard but sometimes have blow ups using braid. Is it worth the inconvenience when the fishing is heating up? 

On a spinning setup, using limp braid allows the line to collect and get under control through the guides much faster. In addition, you can use a smaller diameter line thus improving overall distance. On a conventional, the line comes off in a straight line. Using a stiffer mono makes sense. You want the line to spring off the spool as it's rotating. Less resistance of the weight having to pull line off the spool. Even if you have mags, if it's setup to fast, you'll have a blow up. Also less packing of the line since braid can dig into itself. If you're using a conventional with braid and your cast isn't smooth, your potential for a blow greatly increases if your line comes off "bumpy" and goes through a series of small running guides. I've used a conventional with levelwind and have used 15# mono and 40# braid which is equivalent to 12# diameter mono.. At times I swear the braid cast a good 20+ yards further but blow ups do occur. Some were minor and I was able to untangle but after a while, I decided to switch back to mono for the convenience. Another option for using mono is using a smaller diameter line. If you change your line each season and are fishing a beach without a lot of structure, 15/17# mono can still land big fish if your drag is setup correctly. It will also give you a slight advantage distance wise compared to 20#.


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## Furball

Ryan White of Hatteras Jack is a good power caster and he has been using braid on his conventionals. You might want to contact him for advice.


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## Raymo

dudeondacouch said:


> Also, don't think it's been said yet, make sure and spool the line over some form of backing (mono or tape) to keep it from slipping around the spool


not always necessary if spooled correctly and you dont get spooled when casting or fighting a fish...usually if you are spooled you are done anyway, so could be a non issue.



dudeondacouch said:


> also spool it under tension to keep it from being loose and digging into itself under pressure.


spooling without enough tension and causing the line to dig into itself is a huge issue with braided line...take your time to do it right if you do it


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## AbuMike

*"Also, don't think it's been said yet, make sure and spool the line over some form of backing (mono or tape) to keep it from slipping around the spool, and also spool it under tension to keep it from being loose and digging into itself under pressure."*



I think you missed the meaning of this post.....Re read and I think it may be clear what he is saying....


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## SNDFLEE

Espresso said it best in my opinion, well written Espresso!


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## BLACK ADDER

*Reply*

Have spooled my Abu 8600 with 65 braided and doing quite well...so far. Of course, I am an old timer that used to fish with DACRON and LINEN line on my heavers...so braided don't scare me much! My experience has been to carry a mono fiilled backup real , in case of "The Big One".
I have been using 65 braided as SHOCK LINE for several years,. with 17 lb test Red Devil by High Seas as main line. Have never broken the shock line, nor popped her at the knot, and I cast ALOT..drum in the spring /fall, sharks in the summer, and blue catfish in the winter. I like the feel, the smooth delivery of the line through the guides, and the strength when I get "THE ONE" up close to the beach. Try THAT one sometime!


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## Hudak

If I use braid, generally it is of the same # test as the mono top shot I use. Generally, I will use braid to increase the capacity of the reel. I have however, filled some of my reels up full of braid from time to time. If I would have been running 18lb test, I will load 20lb test braid on it. When comparing # test to # test, I have noticed an increase in distance. I have not replaced 18lb mono with 30-60 lb test braid and tried to compare distances.


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## smacks fanatic

Everybody,
just my @cents, but braid is not the best power throwing line, or casting line. This is coming from fishing standards, not casting tournaments. braided line tends to pull the sinker from the gbottom of the ocean(i have no idea why). Also, even with magged reels, braid just has a tendency to birds nest even with the strongest of magged reels. and my last reason would be, its a very limp line, causing it to spin around very rapidly, getting hung on guides and other tackle in the way of the cast.


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## Hudak

Braid is not allowed on the casting field, in tourneys at least. Generally, the best use I have found for braid in the surf is as a backing to add some yardage to my spool. Spool up 300yds of 20lb test and finish it off with 18lb mono. On most 20 size reels and up, you won't cast the mono off, and you will still have the capacity just in case. I have only needed to get into the braid once, on a nice cobia. That was on a saltist 30h. It was nice to know it was there when I needed it.


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## RuddeDogg

I use 17lb suffix tri under 50lb power pro on my 525 and have NO issues at all with blow ups or bird's nests.


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## dsurf

Often it comes down to ensuring the braid diameter is sufficient to keep from digging into the spool......and that may be 50lb braid or larger, maybe some 40lb. I have not found any 30lb braid that does not dig into the spool. Hence often you're getting to the same diameter size as 17lb mono or larger.......don't see any likelihood of gaining any distance with that scenario......then if distance is negated, what benefits are you deriving from braid? Some say stronger line.......not sufficient benefit for me. Hence, I always go back to a high quality mono.


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## CJS

I thought the reason for using light line when distance casting had more to due with the dynamics of spool spin than resistance on guides. Lighter line means more line on the reel so the spool rotations are more efficient. At the start of the cast when the spool diameter is greater more line is pulled off the spool with each rotation, thinner line means the diameter of the spool decreases more slowly and distance is gained because each rotation of the spool is more efficient with thinner line. Similar concept to how drag pressure changes as you gain or lose line. 

I use braid on conventionals with levelwinds but I am not distance casting with them. Makes me cringe to think what would happen if I wrapped a guide throwing 8 oz and a spot head with 50 pound braid. 

Not an expert just a thought.


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## Ichabod

Here's why I use braid: Like to be prepared for the bigger fish that would normally break me off. I guess the problem arises from casting off half or more of your spool capacity and then having a decent fish spool you on the initial run. I have used 50#, 65#, 80# and 100#. All have worked very similar. The only thing about the 50# is if you bird's nest it really good the line will tend to cut/fray itself. For this reason I tend to shy away from the 50# braid. Have tried most all brands and PowerPro works best for me. Tried the Sufix 832 and didn't notice much difference than regular braid. I do think that Momoi braid is excellent but it tends to be a little bit fatter and thus cuts down on reel capacity. Please note that I fish with the Penn TRQ100 reels (made in USA) that are capable of greater than twenty pounds of drag and as a result I can utilize the increased strength of the braid. I have read that you cannot hold more than 10# drag on a surf rod without being drug into the ocean. I have found this not to be the case. Last week on a 10' rod I had to crank the drag all the way down to keep from getting spooled. It was rough but you can hold on and manage. I have not noticed a difference in castability but I wasn't looking for greater distance just greater ability to fight fish. It works for me but I have always been called weird.


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## moose22dog

i have been useing 50lb braid on my avet mxl mc since this spring and have notice better distance than with mono, however i'm no expert by any means when it comes to conventional reels. hence the magiac cast..lol. also on a side note have yet to NOT be able to pick a birdsnest out with the braid, also i'm useing about 10yds of 50 mono for a shock leader. hope this helps. tight lines moose


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## RocknReds

I use Sufix 30lb braid on my Akios levelwind and Sufix Tritanium 14lb on my Akios non levelwind and believe it or not - They both are casting 5oz to the same spot out on the sand bar for pups. I had some backlash problems at first with the shock knot on the levelwind until I started using no shock leader ( the braid test breaks at 47lb). Both reels are on 10'6" Breakaway Omega rods.


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## solid7

RocknReds said:


> I use Sufix 30lb braid on my Akios levelwind and Sufix Tritanium 14lb on my Akios non levelwind and believe it or not - They both are casting 5oz to the same spot out on the sand bar for pups.


There is nothing at all hard to believe about that.

It's simple physics. The force you exert has to be sufficient to overcome the loaded mass of the spool. It doesn't matter what kind of line you are using, if the spool mass is roughly the same. Once you get the weight in the air, it can only travel as freely as the spool can spin. Obviously, you can overspool either braid or mono, which means that the spool is actively ejecting line. (reducing the force that impedes the free travel of the weight through the air)

Given the relatively short distance of the flight, and seeing that the spool and weight velocity should be relatively even, (the failure to equalize the 2 = backlash) it is clear that the weight does all of the work. Any variables which would hamper the travel of the weight would be very insignificant. At least that's my opinion. My spool - whether loaded with braid or mono - is usually still spinning, and needs to be slowed down by the time the weight hits the water. Neither braid nor mono falls out of the sky before the weight does, so I'm fairly sure they don't have a net effect on the casting distance.

Now, if you were talking drag at the spool (overlapping line causing friction) or through the eyes, that might be a different story. I would still argue that given the relatively short flight path, those negated distances would be negligible...


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## RWalleySA

mono cheap. braid expensive


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## solid7

RWalleySA said:


> mono cheap. braid expensive


Braid = high capacity on compact reels

It's a value decision.


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## Dyhard

Give me braid, less friction from air or water.
I have used; nylon braid, dacron braid and mono, today's braid is the ticket.
I've been casting since 1948.


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## capefox

This is an old thread but it pops up in Google prominently so it's worth doing a retrospective.

In the world of 2021, braid is commonly used on conventionals and even more so on spinners.
Manufacturers capitalized on braid by creating small-framed surfcasting conventionals with beefier drags and magnetic/centrifugal braking. Consider the Penn Fathom II 15 Casting Special, Akios 666 CTM, and the Avet SX Gen 2 MC. These mighty little reels are handily taking over the work formerly performed by much bigger conventional reels loaded with heavy 30-40 lb. mono.
Braid prices have moved closer to the cost of mono though it's still substantially more. However, braid can last many years whereas mono is usually ready for the recycling bin in a year or two. Using 100-200 yards of topshot mono over a large amount of braid backing is a common compromise - esp. where abrasion resistance is needed.
Braid must be tightly wound onto the spool to prevent digging in and overruns.
As long as the preceding item is taken care of, overruns are usually easily unpicked and even less serious than mono. 
Distance? I get greater casting distance with 40 lb. braid than with 40 lb. mono. on a conventional. It's lighter and has less diameter, i.e. friction and air resistance.


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## pcbtightlines

Try 17/20lb mono on a conventional with a shock leader.


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## slosh

I've been experimenting with braid on surf rods since 2008 or so, and still can't decide the right answer. Initially I was all in on braid, and used nothing else. That changed in the last couple of years. 
Some of my big reels (Saltist/Slosh 20s/30s) are loaded with straight 50 pound braid. Some have 30 pound braid backing, topped with enough 17lb mono that I can't cast it all off (so ~120 yards, I'm a poor caster). My lighter reels the whiting/pompano stuff, are mostly spinners loaded with 10-12lb mono or 15-20lb braid. 

When it's really nasty out -- lots of wind and current -- I mostly fish mono. Otherwise, I like the sensitivity and castability of braid. 

Backlashes suck regardless of line type, but I honestly think I'm more successful recovering from those with braid -- as long as it doesn't zing-pow mid-cast.


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## Furball

For the past five years, 90% of my surf fishing has been done with braid, usually 30lb test on a Penn Squall 12 or Penn Fathom 12. On the Squall I have the mags set a 50% and on the Fathom the centrifugal brakes are set with three out of six engaged.I cast far and hard and have not had a much of a problem with backlashes. Most of my casts are off-the-ground but I have used the Hatteras cast and the pendulum cast (though I don't really have that one figured out yet.)

I am not sure if it casts that much farther than mono because I just no longer use mono enough to make a comparison. The only time I use mono with a conventional is when drum fishing at the point. I prefer braid over mono for the following reasons. (1) much greater sensitivity at detecting bites; (2) I can use a smaller lighter reel; (3) unlike mono, braid doesn't wear out (except for the occasional need to cut the end back a few feet; and (4) it gets very good distance, probably more for me that when using 17lb test mono. I have had backlashes but I am usually able to clear them. I will say that braid is less forgiving and once a reel starts to go south mid-cast, it is hard to correct. To me the above benefits are worth it. Tom


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## jahtez

What I've found with braid, in the test ranges I typically use, is that I don't get a drop in resistance to wind and current proportional to the drop in diameter. So if I replace 20-30lb mono with 10-20lb braid, I'm still getting the equivalent resistance on the braid as the 20lb mono. For me, mono seems to be more slippery, especially in the water, and resistant to getting moved around. And in a surf or current situation, that can be the critical factor.

I'm not typically trying to cast to the Bahamas and I'm not trying to squeeze out that last 15-20 yards, and most of the surf fishing that I do doesn't really abrade my line, so all in all, mono more than satisfies my needs. If I was fishing pilings or oyster beds then I'd probably think differently, but for me it doesn't justify the cost.


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## pcbtightlines

IMO braid was primarily developed for spinning reels.


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## BeachBob

Braid on a revolver for distance? Well, give it a go and see for yerself. For me, ALWAYS good mono like Sakuma. You might find out why mono's my choice if you do spool up with braid.


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## pcbtightlines

I Only use braid for throwing metals and artificial’s with spinning gear …never use it fishing bait.


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