# Different rigs for reaching third bar



## x101airborne (May 30, 2015)

Morning All. 
I have been surf fishing for a couple years now and only recently experimenting with distance casting. With a 3 ounce weight in an open field using an American Rodsmiths ARS-8C and a Shimano Torium 30, I get around 70 yards. I know the rod is short for big distance, but I have hooked King Mack's, black drum, sheepshead, rays, sharks and whiting all in the same surf and need the fighting power of the shorter rod. I am working on my form for gaining a few yards, but here is my next plan.... I am looking to move away from the old fishfinder rigs and use something with a little less "helicoptering". 70 with just a weight equals around 50 in the surf with a double bait rig. 
I have read about the "yo-yo" rig, but haven't built one yet. I am heaving dead bait for anything that will bite. Any rig building advice for distance is appreciated. 

I have been watching Tommy on You-tube and all I can say is "WOW"!!! 

For catching lighter fish I have a Jarvis Walker 10-TTSC paired with a Torium 20 and an American Rodsmiths ARS-10S with an Okuma CD65.


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## cooper138 (Aug 8, 2012)

Just make your fish finder rigs a 1" snell or cannonball it. No problem with helicoptering on that.


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## RichLou (Jun 10, 2015)

cooper138 said:


> Just make your fish finder rigs a 1" snell or cannonball it. No problem with helicoptering on that.


We actually crimp and keep it about an inch. I personally feel the crimp on such a short bite leader allows better action on circle hooks to rotate to the corner of the mouth. But like cooper said short leaders prevent or atleast minimize the helicopter effect.


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## x101airborne (May 30, 2015)

Thank you both for the information. 
My B-day is in September, so I am hoping to get a kitchen pass to go to the Port O'Connor Jetties and camp surfside. Speckled trout and slot reds between first and second bar; sharks, kings, spanny mac's and possible (rare, but it does happen) ling off the end of the rocks fishing whole mullet with 10 foot of leader under a balloon on outgoing tide. With my luck, my week off we will get centered by a hurricane.


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## Jersey Hunter (Jul 26, 2009)

I would use an IMP clip from Breakaway Tackle and make a pulley rig, have been using them for the last three years without any trouble.


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## x101airborne (May 30, 2015)

Jersey Hunter said:


> I would use an IMP clip from Breakaway Tackle and make a pulley rig, have been using them for the last three years without any trouble.


I saw a diagram of that rig somewhere and thought it was very interesting. I have not ordered the clips yet, as I was looking for some sage advice from folks with more experience than I but I think I will order some. Couldn't hurt and I have some time before my trip.


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## DANtheJDMan (Aug 29, 2012)

x101airborne said:


> I saw a diagram of that rig somewhere and thought it was very interesting. I have not ordered the clips yet, as I was looking for some sage advice from folks with more experience than I but I think I will order some. Couldn't hurt and I have some time before my trip.


I tied a lot of fish finder rigs and had mixed resutls. 

I read on this sight that the line from the swivel to the hook should be less than 6 inches and should really be less than 2 inches. 

Its really hard for me to tie the knots that short. I snell the hook with an off set eye but for a straight eye hook I was at a loss for getting a good knot. A polymer knot prolly works good but its hard for me to tie that short. 

I finally learned how to tie a nail. I use a great big upolstry needle that I knocked the point off and bent an L in the end. I tie the nail so its a slip Knot with the hook in the loop. (Noose)

I pull it really tight and but I don't let is slip all the way down to the hook. When I get hooked up on something really big it will slip all the way down. With it a little loose the big circle can move a little. Seems to work good. (I don't have a krimper) Caught some good red fish on these and hooked a shark that spooled my surf rod and nothing broke. 

The two inch long leader to the hook added a good 20 yards to my cast. 

I tried throwing a store bought shark rig and it just dies in the air and does not fly nearly as far. 

I have had really good luck with the sort leader. In Texas, Florida, and North Carolina.


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## x101airborne (May 30, 2015)

Very good advice. Thank you. When I was 14, I used to know the nail knot. Unfortunately, I also think that was the last time I used that knot and I will have to refresh. Hope my Google-KungFu is strong.


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## cooper138 (Aug 8, 2012)

Nail knot is all I use on heavy line. 50# plus


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## greg12345 (Jan 8, 2007)

+1 on breakaway rigs...go to their site and browse around, several different options there...more suited for smaller baits though, not sure any kind of rig is going to help you get a 10" whole mullet way far out...could you get by with just the head? that's the best part...


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## x101airborne (May 30, 2015)

greg12345 said:


> +1 on breakaway rigs...go to their site and browse around, several different options there...more suited for smaller baits though, not sure any kind of rig is going to help you get a 10" whole mullet way far out...could you get by with just the head? that's the best part...


Perhaps I should have been more informative, my whole mullet are less than 6". About a 4 or 5 ounce bait, salt cured and frozen. If I am feeling froggy, I will use a veterinarian syringe and inject the gut cavity full of menhaden oil. Slowly leaking out, it makes a lovely slick that you don't really want to be downwind of, but it is lethal on Kings and bull Reds. If I am using 6 to 12 inch mullet I 'yak em out spooling off my 12/0 with 150 pound braid. And I catch and process my mullet my self, so bait is cheap. If I had to buy bait I would probably fish ribbonfish. 

After looking at the breakaway site, I was thinking of buying a couple of all their rigs and seeing what I liked and disliked. The cannonball rig is interesting, but I have a question. If the sinker is free to slide up and down the line from swivel to hook, when the mainline comes under pressure from the tide, how does one keep the sinker from going down to the hook effectively limiting the action of the bait in the water and pinning it down to the bottom?
Hate to ask dumb questions, but I am too ignorant to know.


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## greg12345 (Jan 8, 2007)

not an expert and others can chime in but in my experience reds don't care if a giant piece of lead is touching the bait (cannonball style), if it is fresh they're going to eat it...

u should inject a mix of gulp alive juice and mh oil into the cavity and see if that works better...


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## x101airborne (May 30, 2015)

greg12345 said:


> not an expert and others can chime in but in my experience reds don't care if a giant piece of lead is touching the bait (cannonball style), if it is fresh they're going to eat it...
> 
> u should inject a mix of gulp alive juice and mh oil into the cavity and see if that works better...


That certainly is a good idea! That gulp juice sure works for arties.


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## Mastrbaitr (May 7, 2014)

Sounds like your gonna need the breakaway sinker clip. The pulley rigs are easy to make, just look online for a pic of it. If your using small bait the clip works great because it clips in right behind your weight of choice and hides the bait in the slip stream until it hits something solid.


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## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

Couple of things. If your casting for sharks, run about 8ft of 400lb mono with a crimp above the hook to stop the weight. Distance plus rubbing leader. And if your yakking a 12/0, heavier line home made leaders and big baits might improve your overall trip experience. But incorporating the weight into your leader, and buying a 25 dollar crimper plus crimps will simplify the rig as a whole


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## x101airborne (May 30, 2015)

Yessir. Already have the crimpers and crimps. My yak out shark leaders are made with 18 foot of orange weed eater line and large circles. I even put old floats on the top of my leaders to hold the leader / mainline junction off the sand and keep the knots from being rubbed through. I believe quality tools plus quality gear equals quality fish. 
I don't really cast for sharks. Sometimes I catch sharks on my cast out gear, but mainly small pup sharks and the catch is incidental. Thank goodness for circle hooks! Easy release.


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## Drum Bum (Jan 12, 2004)

I don't think weedeater line in a shark rig qualifies as quality gear. I tied up a length and it was like a bungee. How would you test breaking strain?

BTW, I have three rods in that series, an ARS 8c ,ARS 10c w/ 6" cut from but, and the 12c. Decent rods.


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## pods (Sep 10, 2013)

Drum Bum said:


> I don't think weedeater line in a shark rig qualifies as quality gear. I tied up a length and it was like a bungee. How would you test breaking strain?
> 
> BTW, I have three rods in that series, an ARS 8c ,ARS 10c w/ 6" cut from but, and the 12c. Decent rods.


Weedwhacker line is equivalent to (and is) heavy mono. It will have some stretch, but certainly not a bungee cord. It is there for abrasion to keep from breaking off due to tail whip or the shark running with the line against its body. 
The 0.090 weedwhacker line usually tests out around 500 lbs or so (off the top of my head). Plenty of strength for what it is supposed to do.


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## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

It is not heavy mono. It will wear through alot faster. Go with quality 400 to 550 mono and #19 AFW. I wouldnt trust what tsf says


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## x101airborne (May 30, 2015)

I don't mean to get the great peeing contest started, but all I can say is it has worked for me. That is all. Maybe different conditions, etc, etc. I am not worried about catching sharks. I want to cast some good baits out to third bar for Kings, Snapper and so on. 
And no more than I have gotten to go shark fishing, if my rigs last one trip it was money well spent. 
And for the record, after fishing one rig constantly for three days I brought in a 6 1/2 foot bull shark and used the leader along with a tail rope to drag him up for pictures and release. My weedeater line was no more stretchy or frayed than it was at the end of day 1. But again, different mono / different results, different weedeater line / different results and on and on.


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## x101airborne (May 30, 2015)

Who is tsf?


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## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

Texas shark fishing .com


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

My rig of choice when drum fishing is a simple fish finder rig with a very short 1-1.5" length. It keeps the sinker/bait in a nice tight formation in flight (you can only be so aerodynamic with a cob mullet head) and is a time proven rig. 

To increase your casting distance I would recommend a couple of things;

1 - Work on your technique. Without a doubt this is you best bank for the buck. Learn to engage the left arm (assuming right hand caster), extending it on the turn and then pulling hard late as you punch with the right .

2 - A longer lever... A longer surf rod (with the right rating for your application) will help a lot combined with the technique. It will give you more distance but that distance does come at a cost. When you hook a big fish, the fish gains an advantage in leverage with every foot of additional rod length.

I can help you with the rods and the rigs should you need it... 

Tommy


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## George Gravier (Oct 28, 1999)

Listen to tommy or use a cannonball rig, you don't need all those fancy clips etc...geo


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## x101airborne (May 30, 2015)

Tommy.... I so much appreciate you offering to help me with technique and gear. I humbly accept your offer and thank you the entire way. You say, "Should you need it".... LOL. Well, till I can make a reel sing like you do, I think there is some room for my improvement. LOL. More like A LOT. 

Geo. I was hoping to get away without the clips, but if they Need Be, then I will. I aint skaered, but I aint dumb neither. I blacksmith a bit making knives and small decorative stuff, and yes you CAN make a blade with a claw hammer, but no it is not the most appropriate way of doing it and the results show. Hence why I was asking about rigs and such. TSF, now that I know what the reference was, was the only place I found with information that I could find at the time. And absolutely, that is where I got the idea. All I can say, is the couple times before my son was born (he is about to turn 5) I got to try the leaders, they worked. All I know. 

If anyone has any diagrams of rigs to try for my birthday weekend, please feel free to post or PM me, but if you don't want them out in the open please let me know so I don't break any trusts.


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## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2006)

x101airborne said:


> Tommy.... I so much appreciate you offering to help me with technique and gear. I humbly accept your offer and thank you the entire way. You say, "Should you need it".... LOL. Well, till I can make a reel sing like you do, I think there is some room for my improvement. LOL. More like A LOT.
> 
> Geo. I was hoping to get away without the clips, but if they Need Be, then I will. I aint skaered, but I aint dumb neither. I blacksmith a bit making knives and small decorative stuff, and yes you CAN make a blade with a claw hammer, but no it is not the most appropriate way of doing it and the results show. Hence why I was asking about rigs and such. TSF, now that I know what the reference was, was the only place I found with information that I could find at the time. And absolutely, that is where I got the idea. All I can say, is the couple times before my son was born (he is about to turn 5) I got to try the leaders, they worked. All I know.
> 
> If anyone has any diagrams of rigs to try for my birthday weekend, please feel free to post or PM me, but if you don't want them out in the open please let me know so I don't break any trusts.


I'll give you my least aerodynamic rig I call a dog run. But it works well for all kinds of fish when live baiting from surf.

At the end of your shock leader, tie on a swivel. tie six feet of 50# on that. slide on a bead, a good swivel, another bead and then tie to a sinker clip. Attach a 12" leader and hook of choice to the sliding swivel(The one between the beads)

Weight goes on end, live bait gets to travel up and down the water column.


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## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2006)

Here is a drawing of Dog Run. (sorry, won't get you to third bar unless you swim out to the second first)


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## x101airborne (May 30, 2015)

Well, thank you for taking the time to show me something new! I will keep this in the back of my mind and find another possible use for it!


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

Tommy said:


> My rig of choice when drum fishing is a simple fish finder rig with a very short 1-1.5" length. It keeps the sinker/bait in a nice tight formation in flight (you can only be so aerodynamic with a cob mullet head) and is a time proven rig.
> 
> To increase your casting distance I would recommend a couple of things;
> 
> ...


Tommy,

Pardon my curiosity . . . 

Just about everyone knows that you are a Tournament Caster. How far, in a real-world fishing situation, are you able to cast a Cob head on the rig you described above?

Thanks !


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## Harder (Nov 5, 2014)

I like pulley rigs. I make my own pulley rigs from 50# Berkley Vanish fluorocarbon leader with home made genie bait clips from 14 ga. galvanized steel wire. The clip keeps the bait close to the weight, and it all flies across the water without any helicoptering. I love it. And I also follow Tommy's advice and use a long rod for added leverage in the cast - 12 ft. Penn Prevail with Penn Pursuit 8000 spinning reel loaded with Spiderwire Stealth 50# braid. I don't use the classic overhead cast, but instead use the so-called easy cast, which is more of a side arm cast. With a 3 oz. trolling weight (excellent aerodynamics), I can toss a 2 oz. mullet steak about 120 yards. Lots of stuff on the web on how to make pulley rigs. And you can never practice your casts enough.


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## x101airborne (May 30, 2015)

I have been working on the practice as much as possible. Kinda hard when I don't have anyone to critique my progress and then the job and kids getting in the way. (Im sure I am the only one on Earth that feels like this... LOL!)


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