# conventional reels to look for



## KevinImX0

im a spinner guy, trying to learn conventional. I do not have a conventional reel yet, but the type of fishing i do. Is from the surf/pier, usage of bottom rigs and we just chuck it as far as possible and let it soak. 

So i decided to ask in the distance section for a reel. 

im not sure what i even want or even should get, but it would be my first time casting with one if i buy one. Im pretty sure i do not want a level wind, whether im a beginner or not. but i think they are removable? Also, im not sure if i want lever drag or star drag.

Im fishing for spot/croakers/blues/rockfish. So the fish aren't necessarily that big, especially in the bay area... theres never going to be some 30+ inch red drum or rockfish. But there are sting rays, that would be the biggest thing i come across but i would like my tackle back. Only time any drag usage would actually be necessary? And im not trying to go shark fishing on purpose. So as long as i can spool atleast 200 yards with 15lb mono, i think ill be happy. But i think a 300 yard spool is preferable, since i plan on using these reels long term. 

So if you guys could give me recommendations that would be great. I may not buy one right now, but i would like to know what to look for. Maybe a used one off craigslist or some special deal might come by and i would never know. Its like a shot in a dark right now. 

All i have my eyes set on right now is a dawia millionare 7HT lol, yall probably laughing inside right now. But id rather have something to look for than nothing.


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## Tommy

Akios 656 CTM. 

Holds 275-300 of 15 lb mono (depending on the brand), it has great spool speed control straight straight out of the box (mag control and centrifugal brake blocks), good drag and casts great. Very tame out of the box but can be tuned to be as fast as you want.

Affordable at 159.95.

Tommy


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## NC KingFisher

A squidder. youll have to learn to cast with that


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## bronzbck1

What Tommy said good all around reel


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## kbamhi

I bought one from Tommy and it's my go to reel.


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## sunburntspike

NC KingFisher said:


> A squidder. youll have to learn to cast with that


thats right NCKF,chase him to the old skool dark side!!!LOL!!. seriously the aforementioned Akios is a great reel for the money,other comparable reels under 200$ would include diawa slosh 20,30, penn 525,310(w/o LW), some of the abu ambassedeurs(not my specialty).


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## AbuMike

NC KingFisher said:


> A squidder. youll have to learn to cast with that


A good choice here. This reel with make you learn to cast. Once you can cast this the rest will be easy.


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## KevinImX0

alright thanks guys. ill keep my eyes open.


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## DANtheJDMan

NC KingFisher said:


> A squidder. youll have to learn to cast with that


I agree. I just learned how to cast a conventional last summer and I got a Penn 500 Jigmaster. You have to learn to cast it and thumb it or you will blow up.
You can buy one for $35 bucks anywhere and you can't hurt it. When you get so you can throw 100 yards with it you can go buy an Akios and it will be like heaven. 
But then don't think you are some kind of born conventional caster. Last month I finally got to go to BBWR with my 12 ft Star Stellar and 656 SCM.
I was way too excited and blew it up the first cast. Not too bad but it nested. Never did it again but even an Akios will blow up if you yank off a bad cast.


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## js1172

DANtheJDMan said:


> I agree. I just learned how to cast a conventional last summer and I got a Penn 500 Jigmaster. You have to learn to cast it and thumb it or you will blow up.
> You can buy one for $35 bucks anywhere and you can't hurt it. When you get so you can throw 100 yards with it you can go buy an Akios and it will be like heaven.
> But then don't think you are some kind of born conventional caster. Last month I finally got to go to BBWR with my 12 ft Star Stellar and 656 SCM.
> I was way too excited and blew it up the first cast. Not too bad but it nested. Never did it again but even an Akios will blow up if you yank off a bad cast.


yup, my akios 757 has went under the knife twice now and I've thrown conventionals since 1980
js


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## KevinImX0

DANtheJDMan said:


> I agree. I just learned how to cast a conventional last summer and I got a Penn 500 Jigmaster. You have to learn to cast it and thumb it or you will blow up.
> You can buy one for $35 bucks anywhere and you can't hurt it. When you get so you can throw 100 yards with it you can go buy an Akios and it will be like heaven.
> But then don't think you are some kind of born conventional caster. Last month I finally got to go to BBWR with my 12 ft Star Stellar and 656 SCM.
> I was way too excited and blew it up the first cast. Not too bad but it nested. Never did it again but even an Akios will blow up if you yank off a bad cast.


i will take your advice, since i am a beginner. I will just get penn 500 jigmaster. A lot of "vintage" squidders on ebay for less than 20, if i come across a clean one on craigslist for 20 imma buy it...


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## gilly21

KevinImX0 said:


> i will take your advice, since i am a beginner. I will just get penn 500 jigmaster. A lot of "vintage" squidders on ebay for less than 20, if i come across a clean one on craigslist for 20 imma buy it...


Please do not do that! You will HATE conventionals if you start there. Its like going and tearing apart your truck engine to understand how it works, then needeing all your internet friends to tell you how to put it back together. Or you can be smart and just take the car dealers word for it and push the gas and go. Get something easy to start with. If you want to make life harder then by all means get yourself a squidder. Otherwise get yourself a Squall, 525 mag, Akios, Abu 6500 of some sort of configuration with mags. Get a reel with some sort of breaking built in other then your thumb. Squidders were at the top of their class when introduced 75 years ago. But times and technology have changed for the better.


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## js1172

gilly21 said:


> Please do not do that! You will HATE conventionals if you start there. Its like going and tearing apart your truck engine to understand how it works, then needeing all your internet friends to tell you how to put it back together. Or you can be smart and just take the car dealers word for it and push the gas and go. Get something easy to start with. If you want to make life harder then by all means get yourself a squidder. Otherwise get yourself a Squall, 525 mag, Akios, Abu 6500 of some sort of configuration with mags. Get a reel with some sort of breaking built in other then your thumb. Squidders were at the top of their class when introduced 75 years ago. But times and technology have changed for the better.


X2
js


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## KevinImX0

gilly21 said:


> Please do not do that! You will HATE conventionals if you start there. Its like going and tearing apart your truck engine to understand how it works, then needeing all your internet friends to tell you how to put it back together. Or you can be smart and just take the car dealers word for it and push the gas and go. Get something easy to start with. If you want to make life harder then by all means get yourself a squidder. Otherwise get yourself a Squall, 525 mag, Akios, Abu 6500 of some sort of configuration with mags. Get a reel with some sort of breaking built in other then your thumb. Squidders were at the top of their class when introduced 75 years ago. But times and technology have changed for the better.



soooooo the penn 500 jigmaster is still okay though?


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## DANtheJDMan

js1172 said:


> yup, my akios 757 has went under the knife twice now and I've thrown conventionals since 1980
> js


I'm glad somebody else has done it too. I'm not saying that you have to learn on a jigmaster. It's just if you can get your cast right to just need to thumb it a little, when your throwing your good reel, for real, with 5 and bait and a good wind coming at you. Your going to bomb it out there. Pretty soon you will be taking some of the brakes out because you don't need them anymore.


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## NC KingFisher

I learned to cast on penn 9s and 209s, some with level wind and some without. Then I moved to a tidewater with the level wind removed and could bomb it 150yds with an anchor. Now I've got a Abu7000 I'm in the middle of rebuilding. I can sling my 4/0w a good 40yds with a 7ft or so ray leader, 8oz, and a 3lb bluefish. It's on a 6' 30-80 tidewater


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## gilly21

KevinImX0 said:


> soooooo the penn 500 jigmaster is still okay though?


No. It's pretty much the same reel as the squidder. Guys who learned on those reels are either old or stubborn, or both. Plan to spend $100-150 bucks on a reel to learn on. If you go cheap like a squidder/Jigmaster, you just wasted 30 bucks on a real expensive dedcoration or anchor. You will not enjoy your experience. Ask the guys who "learned on the squidder" or "learned on the Jigmaster, or "learned on a Newell" if they enjoyed picking out all the birdnests, cutting and respooling, burning of their thumbs, and wasting their money on all the line and terminal tackle they donated to Davie Jones. You will have these issues with any new conventional, but wouldn't you want the learning curve to be 5-10 casting sessions as opposed to a full season? IDK maybe you are a masochist like all the guys saying you should get a squidder or jigmaster just like they did.


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## KEVIN

Get a used Abu 6500 CT and go from there.


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## SteveZ

I can have any reel I want so I choose to fish with abu 5500s and 6500s.


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## RocknReds

Man: Take Tommys advice. You'll be better off in the long run and will also cast and fish better. DO NOT buy the Penn reel. It will give you a bad introduction to conventional reels and if you do learn it you will only upgrade to the Akios anyway.


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## AbuMike

gilly21 said:


> No. It's pretty much the same reel as the squidder. Guys who learned on those reels are either old or stubborn, or both. Plan to spend $100-150 bucks on a reel to learn on. If you go cheap like a squidder/Jigmaster, you just wasted 30 bucks on a real expensive dedcoration or anchor. You will not enjoy your experience. Ask the guys who "learned on the squidder" or "learned on the Jigmaster, or "learned on a Newell" if they enjoyed picking out all the birdnests, cutting and respooling, burning of their thumbs, and wasting their money on all the line and terminal tackle they donated to Davie Jones. You will have these issues with any new conventional, but wouldn't you want the learning curve to be 5-10 casting sessions as opposed to a full season? IDK maybe you are a masochist like all the guys saying you should get a squidder or jigmaster just like they did.


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## zdogk9

If the squidder and the older conventional reels were easy or pleasant to use, spinning reels would never have became as popular as they are.


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## Tommy

Why make the learning curve steeper than it has to be??

While old squidders, jigmasters and other reels with limited (or no) braking may wax nostalgic with some, the fact is reels with effective braking are much easier to cast. Also, when properly tuned, will outperform those reels that are controlled using an educated thumb. 

There is not a more anally obsessive group than tournament distance casters tuning their reels. If thumbing was the way to go, this crowd would have it down to a finely tuned craft. 

Tommy


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## River

If you love fishin the Abu 5500's and 6500's - like I did, then you will really appreciate Akios - Its a Abu built the right way --- River


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## NC KingFisher

zdogk9 said:


> If the squidder and the older conventional reels were easy or pleasant to use, spinning reels would never have became as popular as they are.


Spinning reels are popular because anyone can use it


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## KevinImX0

okay sooo

Abu 5500's and 6500's
diawa slosh 20,30
penn 525,310
Akios 656 CTM

am i missing anything?


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## NC KingFisher

Kevin, I'm gonna get bashed for this but you can get an aluminum spool Jigmasters and mag it yourself for a lot cheaper than those if you want to put in the time and save money


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## KevinImX0

NC KingFisher said:


> Kevin, I'm gonna get bashed for this but you can get an aluminum spool Jigmasters and mag it yourself for a lot cheaper than those if you want to put in the time and save money


hey man, i was down for a penn squider. I can get a used jigmaster for like 20 bucks. and watch some youtube videos and try myself. i might need some help though . . .


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## DANtheJDMan

KevinImX0 said:


> hey man, i was down for a penn squider. I can get a used jigmaster for like 20 bucks. and watch some youtube videos and try myself. i might need some help though . . .


The first Jigmaster I got had a botched mag job in it. The glue on the magnets had come off and they were just loose in there. Did I say first, I got another one both are not magged. That is something to think about.


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## RocknReds

Why do all the work and money to still have an antique. Do the right and sensible thing and purchase a reel from Tommy.


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## NC KingFisher

It's not much work, and I bet Jigmasters can take more abuse than them new ones can and they've caught more fish


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## AbuMike

Yep take the shortcut. That's what this world has come to, the easy way out....And it's not being anal as someone said. It's putting in your time and being proud of an accomplishment..


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## kbamhi

AB, I usually don't comment on these differnces of opinion but that is almost like saying you should buy a model T with a crank start so you can appreicate a car with an electric start. The older reels have a pretty steep learning curve and it can be difficult, frustrating, and time consuming to learn to cast one of them effectively. That is why there have been improvements, to make our lives just a little bit easier. I don't know if I would call it the easy way out but it is certainly easier.


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## kbamhi

Oh yeah......and I feel like it is an accomplishment when I throw a magged reel without blowing it up.


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## NC KingFisher

I'd take a unmanaged Jigmasters, mag it, and be proud to fish it. Sure it might take some work, but it will be cheaper, and that reel is a lot tougher and you can customize it with all the parts out there to be exactly what you want. If you get spare spools, you can quickly change the line out depending on fishing situations.


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## AbuMike

kbamhi said:


> AB, I usually don't comment on these differnces of opinion but that is almost like saying you should buy a model T with a crank start so you can appreicate a car with an electric start. The older reels have a pretty steep learning curve and it can be difficult, frustrating, and time consuming to learn to cast one of them effectively. That is why there have been improvements, to make our lives just a little bit easier. I don't know if I would call it the easy way out but it is certainly easier.


Your analogy is incorrect but ok. Again, these type of reels will make you LEARN to cast smooth and fluid. A magged reel for the most part will allow you to cast but never improve you distance or form. Most *fisherman* will get comfortable with a limited casting distance and never reach full potential.

I do agree to a point. I have and fish some of the best reels on the market but when conditions get tough I can still sling a Squidder and never have to worry about the frame folding under pressure.


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## NC KingFisher

X2


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## NcRon

Kevin 

A lot of great advice and reel suggestions above.Get what you like and can afford, learn to cast it,have fun practicing with it.Get a big spool of cheaper line in the pound test your planning on throwing and if ya blow it up, just cut out the birdsnest, respool,and start slinging again.The more ya practice the better you will get.

Ron


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## bctom

gilly21 said:


> Please do not do that! You will HATE conventionals if you start there. Its like going and tearing apart your truck engine to understand how it works, then needeing all your internet friends to tell you how to put it back together. Or you can be smart and just take the car dealers word for it and push the gas and go. Get something easy to start with. If you want to make life harder then by all means get yourself a squidder. Otherwise get yourself a Squall, 525 mag, Akios, Abu 6500 of some sort of configuration with mags. Get a reel with some sort of breaking built in other then your thumb. Squidders were at the top of their class when introduced 75 years ago. But times and technology have changed for the better.



I really like the new way of thinking always take the easy way out. A squidder is a good reel, old school maybe; but I'm sure when you count the drum these old reels have put on the sand, it would far out number the new magged technology. I have accumlated quite a collection of Penn old school 970, 980, and 990 mags, hands down the perfect reel for old drum fishing, lower gear ratio for large fish, and bullet proof performance, drop it in the sand, rinse it off with fresh water and keep fishing.....finer tuned high performance bait casters are not going to do that., here's my point if you first learn the old way; then you can move forward to the newer reels, but one important difference, you can always fall back on the latter. your thumb. Its a matter of choice, throw the recommendations out the window and do what YOU are comfortable with.

I've become hooked on fly fishing for south island NZ brown trout and would not trade that for any kind of drum or beach fishing again, period. Fishing in the purest sense period, and when you have caught a brown over 14 pounds on a fly you will remember that when you die.......

Follow what makes YOU comfortable, make friends with people that will let you cast their reels and you will make a friend for life...casting tournaments are a good source, keep an eye out and go to one, talk to the casters, opinions differ with different people, listen and learn......

tight lines,

tom


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## KevinImX0

RocknReds said:


> Why do all the work and money to still have an antique. Do the right and sensible thing and purchase a reel from Tommy.


at my stage in fishing expertise and my point in life, i do not need to be spending 160 dollars on a fishing reel. . . if they could do it 75 years ago, i can sure do it too. Did we get retarded somewhere along the line and only the proud americans from the 40's can cast pen squiders? Is that what it is?

I like it vintage, and i like that kind of work. Me playing around with a cheap jigmaster would probably get me to understand convetional reels. 

I also like how the jigmaster looks, i like smaller diameter reels, that are kinda wide instead of all stocky. I mean the jigmaster doesnt look like the diawa millionaire, but it looks pretty wide and thin compared to other things ive seen....


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## KevinImX0

thats just how i feel about the jigmaster. I will always keep my eyes peeled for a deal on the other reels you guys have mentioned. don't think ive just casted all your advice aside.


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## KevinImX0

Also, don't you guys think oxy clean would do the trick? just soak that vintage thing in there for a few days. sand it here and there. 

and can't i just spray paint the side plates?

and just lube n grease n oil that thing all up afterwards


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## NC KingFisher

Go on Alan Tanis site and he has a complete break down of the jigmaster


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## CJS

I'd get a newer reel. If you look around you can find decent deals (under 100 $) on newer used conventionals.

The Jigmaster is a larger reel. Using it for your purposes(4-6oz and top and bottom rigs), casts will be more difficult to control, the reel will be heavier than necessary, and casting distance won't be great. I understand the idea that it will teach you but I wouldn't consider a reel that size to be a good learning reel.

IMO, any benefits a conventional has over a spinning reel are wasted trying to make that reel fit your purposes.


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## bronzbck1

You are right CJS why waist your time. I cast to fish, not learn to throw junk. If you are serious fisherman you will learn quick to buy the best you can afford. Time wasted playing changing or learning doesn't catch fish!


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## Youngbuck757.

kevin said:


> get a used abu 6500 ct and go from there.


x2


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## Islander80

Kevin, if you are buying into the thinking that, you need to learn on a reel with no cast contol exept your thumb, why not buy a slosh20/30 and take the breaks out. Put some heavy oil on the bearings and cast away. When you get tired of birds nest or you feel you have properly tuned your cast you can put the breaks back in.


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## Sandcrab

DANtheJDMan said:


> ... even an Akios will blow up if you yank off a bad cast.


Yet to happen with my 656 SCM... Love it !

Sandcrab


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## KEVIN

Go with something modern... Sort of like you don't buy a Commodore 64, you get a Mac.


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## NC KingFisher

Compare all the fish caught on squidders/jigmasters to fish caught on akios.....Which wins?


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## DANtheJDMan

Sandcrab said:


> Yet to happen with my 656 SCM... Love it !
> 
> Sandcrab


You need to watch Tommies video were he winds one up. That was a total rewind. 

I love my 656 SCM too.


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## kbamhi

NC KingFisher said:


> Compare all the fish caught on squidders/jigmasters to fish caught on akios.....Which wins?



No offense but if my analogy was bad, this one is worse. : )


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## NC KingFisher

Not rely cause akios loses everytime


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## AbuMike

This thread is getting really funny. Most of you guys think fishing distance casting is all about reel "breaking". I can see that cause you know no better...What do you think we did before mag or rotating mechanical breaks? We learned to cast smooth and fluid.


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## zdogk9

We also spent a lot more time picking backlashes out, or reaching for the line wrench


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## zdogk9

Oh, we got to transfer the line from the reel to a drying rack after we were don fishing for the day too.


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## KevinImX0

well theres a used daiwa millionare for 70...


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## Tommy

Casting for distance is a combination of gear and technique. You can purchase top grade gear, but until you learn how to properly load a rod you will never get top performance out of that gear.

I also find this thread amusing. Hardcore old school thumbers vs. them newfangled tricked out maggers.....

The "fish caught" comparison between squidders and Akios is classic. Kinda like saying a 72 ford squire station wagon is better than a new chevy because it has racked up more miles...lol

Cast as many as you can, find out what suits you and your style and use it.

When you are ready to really cast a loooong way, learn a powercast technique and then practice, practice, practice. 

Tommy


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## bronzbck1

NC KingFisher said:


> Compare all the fish caught on squidders/jigmasters to fish caught on akios.....Which wins?


That's the dumbest thing I've heard in awhile!


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## BlaineO

Kevin, break it down and make it simple.

Do you want to be limited by your equipment, or your ability?

My best,

Blaine


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## NC KingFisher

bronzbck1 said:


> That's the dumbest thing I've heard in awhile!


I don't see how. If y'all like new reels, then fish em. There tougher than any new tricked out reel hands down


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## kbamhi

I don't think there are dumb opinions here, just differences of opinion. If ya got it, fish it.


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## KevinImX0

I think a penn jigmaster 500 would be a good cheap start. and i can buy parts and toy around with it and tune it up or w/e. I think i can do a lot of experimenting, i might even spray paint the side plates and see how well oxy clean works lol. 

I can practice by just dropping the sinker to the ground or off the balcony and learn that way. And just spool on like 25 yards. Than i might put on 100 yards and do it at a field. Than go fishing for real. I mean 12lb mono is pretty cheap at walmart anyways. 

Unless i can find a used penn 525 mag or daiwa slosh 20,30 or a millionare 7HT for under like 50 bucks.


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## NC KingFisher

Hey Kevin, start out with 30lb mono on that jig master. A lot easier to pick out the backlashes, then to 25 and then 20 at the lowest


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## O'Shaughnessy

I've got an MXL MC on order, will let you know what I think of it. Might try to trick it out a little bit after I get used to it. Black lights, etc.

"Fashion fades. On the beach, only style stays the same." -Coco Chanel, paraphrased


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## Hooked Up

put some 20s on it and wrap some purple led's around the spool


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## KevinImX0

Islander80 said:


> Kevin, if you are buying into the thinking that, you need to learn on a reel with no cast contol exept your thumb, why not buy a slosh20/30 and take the breaks out. Put some heavy oil on the bearings and cast away. When you get tired of birds nest or you feel you have properly tuned your cast you can put the breaks back in.


i like this idea....


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## KevinImX0

BlaineO said:


> Kevin, break it down and make it simple.
> 
> Do you want to be limited by your equipment, or your ability?
> 
> My best,
> 
> Blaine


im already kinda stuck bro, i go fishing with an okuma longitude 12' ( 50 $ ) and a diawa beef stick 12' ( 20$ ) . . . at first they were pretty stiff. but after fighting big sting rays ( unintentionally ) and bringing them in, both of the rods got pretty supple after that. You guys bash cheap rods, but you just gotta break em in.... when i used to cast with my beef stick it felt like a lob stick, now i can feel it being all supple when i cast a 6oz. 

and the reels were both quantum 60x? one came in a 10ft combo for 40 and one for 25 at walmart. . . idk they worked fine when i fought the sting rays. and those rays are the biggest things i'll ever see. striped bass are a rarity for me, and im sure i can bring them in easier than a ray. next down are blue fish. 

sooo im not into all this lets spend alot of money on fishing gear. Its great if you have a good job, but its just fishing... like down and dirty trying to eat some dinner fishing and to enjoy the sport. It somehow turned into some fraternity southern proper deep sea fishing thing everywhere. I just like the surf. And things for 50 bucks all work great around here. 

so i guess its equipment on this one blaine.


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## KevinImX0

everybody should enjoy and be into their hobby and that requires some money. Im not making myself seem poor, or making you guys seem retarded rich. I like fishing, but right now. The penn jigmaster seems like the way to go. 

Thanks for all the help guys! when i buy my jigmaster, you better bet on some more questions lol


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## BlaineO

Hi Kevin.

More than a few years ago, I started in much the same way you have. After a close to a decade of buying "good enough" equipment, I discovered that I could pay twice as much for middle of the road gear, and have that gear last 3-4 times longer that the "good enough" stuff. 

If you are fortunate, and get to fish enough to wear out equipment (most never do wear gear out, it gets negletected, traded, or sold), you'll find out this for yourself.

Conventional reels can have a steep leaning curve, and although we all need to live within our budgets, there is no glory to learning things the hard way, if a bit more money saves some time, misery, and fishing line...

Good luck, and let us know how you get on with conventional gear.

Blaine


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## NC KingFisher

Kevin, any questions you've got just pm me.


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## Don B

Hi Kevin,

Jig Masters are still being manufactured after several decades of use. That speaks well of their design, durability and price.

There are a couple of models that were manufactured. Some of the older ones had a plastic (or plastic like) spool. These would not be useful for adding mag control. Another older model was the 505HS. It had ball bearings and high speed retrieve. Maybe you will get lucky and find one of these treasures.

When Kingfisher talks about using smaller line as you gain experience, he is addressing natural braking. Per yard cast, the spools diameter will decrease. The spool diameter will decrease at a faster rate when using thicker line. This in turn will try to accelerate the spool which tends to reduce a backlash. The other application of natural braking is simply putting less line on the spool and starting with a smaller spool diameter. However, less line is less line.

Unless there has been a recent change, other than the 505HS model, all Jig Master reels have bushing bearings. This means that the oils being promoted for most fishing reels may not desirable for the Jig Master. A high viscosity oil will stay in the bearings longer, last longer, run smoother and provide better line control. If you still have a problem with line control, you can use gear lube.

Another advantage of the Jig Master is the easy removal of the right side plate. Loosen one thumb screw, give the side plate about 15 degree turn in the CCW direction and the plate comes off. This facilitates replacement of the spool. It is much more compact to carry some extra prefilled spools of line rather than carrying extra reels.

A trick we used when casting 6/0 size reels was to put some STP on the outside of the bearing in the left side plate. The STP would provide the control during the first part of the cast. After about 3 casts, the STP had thinned enough to no longer be effective.

My first conventional was a Penn 113HLW (wide 4/0). Although I initially had a couple of backlash problems that were not major and soon were gone. After I was relatively competent with the 4/0, I turned to the 114HLW. Later came the 112 (3/0). I added a Newell kit that provided a wide graphite spool. When I first cast it, I was shocked at the distance it cast.

Jig Master line capability: When I did use a Jig Master, I used 40# line. That was the standard and it was about the correct size required due to structure. Today, the Jig Master remains popular and folks in Hawaii are using 50# line. I haven't heard of any complaints. This does mean that you have lots of flexibility in line choices while you are learning to cast.

OK, cars. A few years ago I was on business in California and rented a Kia from a major rental agency. For the first week, the Kia was used around town. I quickly found that the outside mounted spare tire blocked the center of the rear window. The back seats blocked visibility of the left and right sides of the rear window. The outside mirrors were not the best, so I had to drive around with the rear seats tilted forward. The luggage space was limited and the rear window areas were not tinted. Anything in the rear area and right front seat were exposed to any passersby. On the weekend I made a trip into the central valley. The car responded excessively to wind gusts and I had to continually fight the wheel.

New car - safety issues - security issues - driving issues. Maybe new isn't always better.

What do you expect when you purchase a car, appliance, TV?
You may want to make a list, and then substitute the word reel.

Hope this helps as I have used my annual quota for words,
Don


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## medicdav66

My 2 cents = this. Get on ebay. You obviously have a computer and internet access. There are plenty of reels that are in great shape to choose from, and can be found from $20-50. I started with a Daiwa Sealine X-30sha. My first real casting reel. And i was delighted with it! But, I was using it from the beach, not a pier. You will not need that much reel for your purposes. I too started from a pier, and can tell you from experience that using a 6-9' pier rod will not cast you a single foot farther with a reel that big. Start small! Im suggesting a Daiwa Millionaire (used) to start. And they are inexpensive on ebay. The fish you are targeting are not large enough for a big casting reel. Even the Jigmaster that is so highly disputed in this thread is too large for a pier, unless you are king-fishing. The large reels mentioned are made for open beach... not a crowded pier.. where you will have trouble finding the room just to manuver and cast it. I own several bait-casting reels, and the one I can cast the farthest (at the moment) is an abu6500 c3. It is a smaller reel and very light. I can cast it so far that it feels like Im fishing with a rubberband, and am unable to keep the line tight enough to feel a strike. I also have a new Saltist BG30 and just purchased a Penn SQL15 that I havent even had a chance to throw yet (2 more weeks till vacation!). Point being... it doesnt have to be a large reel, nor does it have to be expensive. 
Oh, and for the Old/New school casting! Technology has improved since the baitcaster's origin. Casting style is important.. but so is the equipment. Why work so hard to learn to cast a Jigmaster 70yds, when you can do it within a few minutes of picking up a newer reel? Just makes sense to me! And the smaller the diameter line you put on it.. the farther it will go. Dont try to kill it the first few times you try to throw it. The distance will come with time and practice. And one other thing... if pier fishing.. 90% of the fish you are targeting will be within 30-50yd of the pier itself. They are drawn to it as a structure, and due to how the water current creates bottom structure around the pier. The bottom structure is what draws the fish : )


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## NC KingFisher

Lol new reels blow up all the same....Jigmaster, squid dee and the like with bushings almost no maintenance and magging is so easy


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## 9 rock

Sandcrab said:


> Yet to happen with my 656 SCM... Love it !
> 
> Sandcrab


The only way that can be is if your not pushing the reel to the limit , 
I always push them till I blow them up then I dial it back 

9


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## Creek-SeaConvert

Here are my two cents:

I am still new to surf fishing. I have been fishing beach/surf for about 18 months now. I started with an okuma avenger av55b spinning reel that I caught at Academy for $25 on sale, reg price was $80. I stuck it on a simple 7'6" tournament choice rod I got at academy for $4 on clearance. I am a soldier so my money is very budgeted. I landed about 1 or 2 reds over 10 pounds with it. But I wanted to cast further, so I started shopping for 8' and 10' rods. I got a $30 Berkley Big Game at walmart. Slapped my okuma on it and brought in heavier reds(cause i learned where and when to cast for them) up to about 30#. So, I got to thinking that I didn't like wading all the way out where the sharks swim, and wanted to cast further. More research and shopping was done. I wanted an okuma conventional. Why okuma you all may ask? Because in the process of trying different rods, I picked up a couple of combo deals. One was a shimano spinner, and another was a Shakespeare spinner. One trip to the beach ruined both of them. Even though they were "salt water" reels, and even though I rinsed them with fresh water before I left the beach, the bastards were seizing up, and one red fish I had bent the spool shaft or something cause it just don't work right anymore. My okuma av55b has never given me any trouble except when my wife landed a 34# red drum with it. She broke the knob off of the crank handle. I put a new one back on. Anyway, I searched and researched for just the right conventional reel. I was at Academy one day and they had an Okuma Convector CV45L on sale for like $50. I snatched it up. I hated that reel for about 3 months. Now I love it. No mag breaks. I just put some braided spider wire on it the other day. Oh my goodness does braided line cast better than mono or copoly for me. I might wad up once or twice, but it is much easier to untangle for me than copoly or mono. It took me a while to learn to cast with a conventional since I spent most of my 40 years on a spinner, but after I effortlessly cranked in a 35# red(see Pic below) with it out of the nasty Louisiana Gulf of Mexico, I was determined to learn how to cast properly with it. I can get about 70 to 100 yards with a 4oz sinker depending on where the wind is. That's good enough for me, for now. I have it on a $50 Shakespeare contender rod. I highly recommend okuma reels. I have dunked this thing in the filthy mudhole they call the gulf of mexico, forgotten to wash it off, and she just keeps on cranking. So does the little spinning reel that my wife uses now.

So, I think it just is a matter of what you can afford, what you like, and how much effort you are willing to put into learning something new. I freaking love my okuma CV45L. It has never let me down. I am thinking about taking the level wind off of it to see if that helps my distance. I get better and better at casting every time. When I first started I was doing good to get 50 yards and not wad it up every cast. Use a glove when you are learning. Helps save your thumb. I still use a glove. Burned my thumb good one day when I was slinging some heavy bait. Try different kinds of line. I used to think mono was the only line out there. Ok, i'll shut up before I have to copyright this. Happy fishing!


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## Creek-SeaConvert

Here is the fish my wife caught that broke my okuma handle knob:


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## NC KingFisher

"Nasty Gulf of Mexico"
Never heard of it. nice reds man. Shakespeare reels are generally junk, rods are ok depending on with one.


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## Jersey Hunter

NC KingFisher said:


> Compare all the fish caught on squidders/jigmasters to fish caught on akios.....Which wins?


Compare which one can cast farther squidder/jigmaster or the Akios the akios wins every time.


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## NC KingFisher

"Compare which one can cast farther squidder/jigmaster or the Akios the akios wins every time"
Maybe for you but I can get just as good if not better distance. Dunk your akios and ill dunk my rig then see which one fishes(and cast) better. Mine cause its got broke in bushings there are well conditioned and don't seize up


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## Don B

Better still, fill the spools of both a JigMaster and Akios with the same diameter 40# mono. Which one will cast farther?


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## bronzbck1

How old are you two 8 maybe 12 ?


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## Jersey Hunter

Mine cause its got broke in bushings there are well conditioned and don't seize up

Give me a break bushings don't start to compare to bearings LOL

Better still, fill the spools of both a JigMaster and Akios with the same diameter 40# mono. Which one will cast farther?

Would even think about using 40 lb. mono when I can use braid and less weight to hold bottom. Its the 21st century.


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## bronzbck1

Off topic but I've found braid will drift with the same weight when mono would hold


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## Tommy

What a thread drift...

The original poster wanted info on a reel to catch spots/croakers/blues/rockfish that would hold 200-300 yards of 15 lb test mono.

Somehow it evolved into a Squidder vs Akios loaded down with 40 lb mono debate.

Again, a 656 or 6500 loaded with a quality 15 lb mono would best suit his needs.

Tommy


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## Jersey Hunter

Tommy said:


> What a thread drift...
> 
> The original poster wanted info on a reel to catch spots/croakers/blues/rockfish that would hold 200-300 yards of 15 lb test mono.
> 
> Somehow it evolved into a Squidder vs Akios loaded down with 40 lb mono debate.
> 
> Again, a 656 or 6500 loaded with a quality 15 lb mono would best suit his needs.
> 
> Tommy


Sorry Tommy but there's a guy on here that recommends a Squidder every time someone ask about a conventional reel I think he's just trying to screw with people.


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## NC KingFisher

No I recommend a magged older reel that will not have them in the hole 200 bucks plus line. Look at he dude catching drum with a unmanaged okuma.........I tip my hat to him, and I'm done


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## DANtheJDMan

Ok, I talked up the Jigmaster because I have a couple and learned to cast with them. I also have an Akios 656 SCM and it is the bomb. I'm not very good with it but when you really get that cast and you hear that little sucker humming and look at the spool afterward and say "Man there isn't much line left."
So I bought a 6501 C3 off ebay, I spooled it up with 12# Suffix and I put it on an old 9.5 ft Shimano trolling rod and took it to the dam I fish at up here. 
Well there is a big pool out in the middle that produces good catfish. I have never seen anyone else fish it from the bank but I do everytime I go up there. It is a pretty good cast to get out there but nothing like the beach. 
Well the first cast with the 6501 and holy crap. I almost casted past the pool and I was laying way back on it. No catfish or walleye Friday night but I did catch a couple of suckers and a pretty big carp that put up a fight like a red fish.
I'm impressed with the 6501 and that light 12# goes sailing out of it. It held almost all of a 330 yard spool so probably 300 yards.


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## castingsfun

The control mechanisms, spool balancing and tolerances are superior to any other reel
that's found in the states. Any other reels that have the same features are considerably
more expensive. My .2c


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## Jersey Hunter

NC KingFisher said:


> A squidder. youll have to learn to cast with that


So am I.


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## ncsharkman

Jersey Hunter said:


> So am I.


 Don't waste your money playing around with a squidder or a jig master, Fork over $120 and get you a sealine 30 slosh and leave the casting weights in and practice with it until you get it right! In the right hands these slosh reels can throw very respectable distances.. A pretty good rod that wont break the bank is n Ocean master 10-12 footer.


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## stone

I normally lurk in the forum. If you like a 7ht, I recommend a sl20sh sl30sh, 20 / 30 shv 20 / 30 grandwave, penn 525,535, gs ( good innards)version is ok too. they are better because they have a line out alarm which 7ht doesnt. 

Abu reels are not as recommended I know most would say they are great. they corrode unless you can get the better ones like 7500 cs c3, 6500 cs chrome, old 9000 10000cl, they are made a little different.5500 6500 abus cast very well and can even do any underhand flick with a sardine. 

lever drags are great if you just lob your baits out but they usually do not cast as far as star but if you really want one, you might like to consider an avet sx / mxl magged yourself

If you like older reels, have a look at shimano speed master III/IV 15/30 20/40, no brakes but still castable. last well with good innards

Personally for pier fishing, you will benefit from thicker lines due to abrasion at the bottom and you need to muscle the fish out and conventional reels benefits from that as it can cast thicker lines better than spinning. I do not see much benefit if you are fishing 15lbs maybe what you need is just a spool of 20 - 30lbs braided line and a longer leader and you can continue to use your spinner and the thinner line can cut through the currents better and you can use smaller weights and you can cast a night without worrying about backlash or the current carrying your line into someone elses line.

If you are after a difficult to cast reel, try a TLD15, at least when you master it, you get a reel that will last and have really smooth drags.


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## liveherring

Please don't get a squidder...
A sl20sh would get my vote. You could find one on fleabay for less than $50.


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