# Filleting fish on beach



## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

Answer from the marine Fisheries enforcement folks!
Seems they want to be able to match fillets to the fish they were removed from--with head and tail attached.

Mr. Benedetti
My answer to your question is that you would need to keep all fillets with the fish, so we could match them up. The law also includes any fish with harvest limits, not just size limits.

Hope this helps,

Lt. Twyne 

Lieutenant Don Twyne

N C Marine Patrol

1107 Hwy. 64 East

Columbia, NC 27925


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## Smally (Jan 16, 2009)

Hmm, so this sounds like that by law you CANNOT fillet a blue that you don't want to eat & then use pieces of the Bluefish fillet for fresh bait. Because then they wouldn't have the fillet to match to the skeleton. But yet I'm sure people do this all the time.

I can't say I really understand why that wouldn't be ok. I mean, If you're honest enuf to keep the carcass w/ head & tail intact in essence saying "Here's the bluefish I cut up for bait & I kept the skelly so you can count it toward my bag limit" then what's the need to show the fillets?

But then there are alot of rules that make no sense to me  I hope if someone kept the skelly but used the fillet for bait they wouldn't actually get ticketed but just a talkin to. But ya never know when you will run into that one jerk having a bad day. 

Thx for investigating that one surffshr. On the other thread where this came up, I was also unsure of what the real answer was. I've heard it explained a few different ways & as usual everyone was absolutely sure they were right.


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

This is a creel law. You need to keep the carcass with the fish so that you can get the legal measurement of the fish


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

Smally said:


> Hmm, so this sounds like that by law you CANNOT fillet a blue that you don't want to eat & then use pieces of the Bluefish fillet for fresh bait. Because then they wouldn't have the fillet to match to the skeleton.


I'm pretty sure the law means that if you're going to have fillets (to keep or use as bait) you must keep the carcass intact. it doesn't matter what you do with the fillets, since they can't be used for measurement. basically, if you wanted to fillet all your bluefish and throw the fillets in the ocean for no reason, you would still be legal if you kept the rest of the fish intact.


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## Smally (Jan 16, 2009)

dudeondacouch said:


> I'm pretty sure the law means that if you're going to have fillets (to keep or use as bait) you must keep the carcass intact. it doesn't matter what you do with the fillets, since they can't be used for measurement. basically, if you wanted to fillet all your bluefish and throw the fillets in the ocean for no reason, you would still be legal if you kept the rest of the fish intact.


That's what I always thought, but in surffshr's post it seems he wrote DMF & they stated 


> Mr. Benedetti
> My answer to your question is that you would need to keep all fillets with the fish, so we could match them up...


I don't know what else to make of that other than you cannot cut up your blue fillets for bait, according to this reply from DMF.


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

his reply may be a little ambiguous, but it makes no sense to interpret it that way.

if taken literally that way, it would be illegal to eat fish fillets. if you were always forced to keep fillets with carcasses, what would be the point of filleting fish at all?



interpret it how you want, but i'm just going to continue to follow the laws as i've understood them for years and have NEVER had a problem.


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## Smally (Jan 16, 2009)

I'll likely do the same as you. I was just hoping for clarification on the law.


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

*yeah*



Smally said:


> I'll likely do the same as you. I was just hoping for clarification on the law.


Intresting if you have head to tail but no fillets.
More likely have problem if you had too many fillets to match the carcasses.
Good points I'll check for an answer.
Filleting fish gets them on ice, and I don't have to clean them late at night when I'm tired and hungary.


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## Fishin-Belews (Sep 7, 2007)

Got a warning ticket two years ago, had cut a Blue for bait. Marine Fisheries came by and checked my box, the Blue was cut in half he give me a warning. He said it is ok to fish with the Blues but there must be an intact carcass. You can clean the fish but all fish with creel and size limits must have a intact carcass. :fishing: Chris


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

i hate ambiguous rules that are left up to interpretation and don't allow for circumstances.

-when my fight with a 2lb blue goes limp and i pull in half a fish with the rest of it in the belly of a blacktip, i'm breaking the law?

-if i bring salted blue fillets from last weekend out to use as bait, i'm breaking the law?

-if i use a bluefish head for bait after the rest of it is gone, i'm breaking the law?


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

dudeondacouch said:


> i hate ambiguous rules that are left up to interpretation and don't allow for circumstances.
> 
> -when my fight with a 2lb blue goes limp and i pull in half a fish with the rest of it in the belly of a blacktip, i'm breaking the law?
> 
> ...


- Probablyif you keep it throw the rest back
- Officer's Call Hopefully not
- Yes- Head to tail have to be attached.


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## boomer (Jul 1, 2009)

If I get ready to leave the pier and I clean my fish at the cleaning station, do you have to leave them so that they can be matched? When I quit fishing and start cleaning fish I want to clean my fish and be done with them. If they stop by my house when I am frying fish do I still have to have carcass for them to look at? Where does it all end at? At some point in time the fillet must be seperated from the carcess and the fillets go to oil or to the freezer and the carcass to the trash.


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## Danman (Dec 13, 2007)

Just obey the law...what's hard about that....momma probably won't let the majority of hubbies to clean fish in their house


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

boomer said:


> If I get ready to leave the pier and I clean my fish at the cleaning station, do you have to leave them so that they can be matched? When I quit fishing and start cleaning fish I want to clean my fish and be done with them. If they stop by my house when I am frying fish do I still have to have carcass for them to look at? Where does it all end at? At some point in time the fillet must be seperated from the carcess and the fillets go to oil or to the freezer and the carcass to the trash.



exactly. lol

and those fillets at the grocery store... do they have the carcasses in the back to match them up to so i can be sure i'm not buying illegal fishies?


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

ok, in all seriousness though...

the way i've always understood the law is that you must have head/tail attached to any fish that has a size restriction or creel limit, but only if you are engaged in a "fishing operation"

so if you're done for the day, and have all your lines out of the water, you can dispose of carcasses and posses the rest legally. however, you then have to transport any fish you plan to keep that do not have head/tail attached BEFORE you can begin fishing again. and yes, this still applies to multiple-day fishing trips if you follow the law to the letter, which is currently a source of much controversy on a couple specific islands.

if i'm wrong, please let me know. :fishing:


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

I've never had a problem by burying the carcass next to the truck so I can match it to filets if questioned. It's all about keeping the evidence should you need it. Showing them time stamped pics from your camera also helps.


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

*ok*

I now know that if I cut up a bluefish for bait I could get a ticket. not used to giving a bluefish that much respect. same as if I used a Puppy Drum for bait. But, Then i think we all would say--- well yeah, of course.

If I fillet my fish I better not have 60 fillets and 10 fish.

Yes they do like to stop people coming off the beach and check coolers.
Never heeard of them checking after you are on the road.

Marine fisheries guys that have checked me (about 5 times in twenty years) have all been ok. There is a chance you would get some jerk with no common sense. 

However, I now feel If cut up a fish with a creel limit or size limit for bait, and leave it in my cooler, I could be leaving myself wide open for a ticket.


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## drumjunkie (Jun 28, 2008)

*context!*

I believe the answer is in response to a particular question, specifically relating to filleting fish on the beach. Don't read too much into it.


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## PoBenda (Sep 6, 2010)

The really ironic thing is that even when you gut hook an undersize fish that will die anyway you have to toss it back so it gets back into the "biomass." Soooooo when you cut up a blue to use as bait....... your kind of returning it to the biomass anyway??????? Just like tossing back an undersize gut hooked fish????? Marine fisheries laws are incredibly important, but incredibly vague as well. I do a lot of marine fisheries law enforcement, so I can attest to that from a personal opinion.

The only reason cops get anal about this stuff is to keep the 2 percent of recreational fisherman who break the law all willy nilly and destroy a fish population because they think it will always come back. I knew a guy who wiped out all of the big oama (baby goat fish, killer bait) schools on the west side of maui one summer. When he got caught with too small of a net, they took the boat, the nets, the truck that towed the boat, and fined him like 20 grand. The local population was STOKED. (Keep in mind, they had been watching him do this for a while and had compiled evidence of a major crime. That's why the punishment was so harsh.) Still yet, it took like 5 years for oama to come back in the school sizes that they used to run in before he raped them. 

1 summer of illegal fishing from 1 guy took 5 years to recover from.

So is it bullsh*t? Yeah. But it's the best we can do for now. If you have a better idea get some people together and write to your congressman. Or shoot an email to your state DLNR guys or whatever they're called out here. If it makes sense, and enough people get behind it, it might work.


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

well, the GOOD answer would be to properly educate the people who enforce the laws about not only the laws themselves, but the reason behind them, and what deviation actually results in a problem, then let them use their judgement and enforce the laws in their original spirit.

unfortunately, in a money-first society full of lawyers and chincy judges, no arrest would ever stick if that were the case.


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## Smally (Jan 16, 2009)

I'm not saying what anyone else should do. & as already stated, the laws are VAGUE, therefore alot of discretion is left to the officer you're dealing with. If you tick him off he can probably find a reason to ticket you, wether or not it will stick. And even if it doesn't stick you still have to go to court & fight it so the best thing IMO is to not try to make waves.

Anyhow, that being said. On the DMF's own website http://www.ncfisheries.net/recreational/recguide.htm 
if you scroll down to the bottom of the page, in the green box it states...

"No one may possess aboard a vessel or while engaged in fishing any fish subject to limits without head and tail attached, except for alewife and blueback herring used for bait provided not more than two fish per boat/operation may be cut at any one time – Reference 15A NCAC 3M .0101"

To me, this seems to clearly state that if the fish has a size OR bag limit then you have to have the head & tail intact. Not the fillet. Therefore it would be ok to fillet your bluefish to use the fillets as bait. It also has the key phrase 'while engaged in fishing'. So for those that are wondering about walking out of the pier house w/ their fillets but no carcasses... that to me sounds like you would be in the clear, because you had the fish intact until after you finished fishing. This is how I have always thought the law worked and that's how I'll continue to think until I'm ticketed. 

As for the letter surffshr got from DMF, I can't really explain that. That person seems to contradict what I've read of the law. I cannot find any law written that confirms what that particular DMF empoyee said. There are dummies in every sector of government so I think it's entirely possible that he just doesn't know the correct answer, and when in doubt Cover Your A$$. 

So I'll continue fishing the way I always have. As long as I'm keeping skelly's w/ head & tail intact I can't imagine getting a ticket unless either I was being a real jerk to the officer (which I wouldn't) or I had run into the biggest jerk in the world.


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## Smally (Jan 16, 2009)

On a side note, about that "while engaged in fishing" thing. 

A few years ago I was fishing @ Fort Macon and ended up striking up a conversation with the rather intoxicated ol' fellow next to me. We had been fishing & talking for a couple hours. The fellow next to me reels in & he's caught an old broken off line. He gets it in & it's a big mess tangled up w/ his line so he's trying to sort it out when a park warden approached us. I said, i guess you wanna see my liscence, he checked it & was happy. He asks the fellow next to me for a liscence and he doesn't have one. The warden told him he needed to get one, but since he didn't "actually" see him fishing that he was ok. All he saw him doing was trying to untangle a mess he had reeled out of the sea. 

Of course I'm sure he was just trying to be a nice guy & give him a break. He could have easily written him a ticket, but at the same time he was honest & said he never saw him actually fishing. So technically he didn't witness him breaking the law.


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## obxsharker2 (Aug 2, 2007)

*another money maker*

Sounds like we should all just carry a cooler around and keep em on ice till yah get to your house an fillet the rascals there. I been fishin down there for years an aint had a problem yet


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## bass724 (Apr 9, 2010)

*Confusued regarding bait fillets*

Hello to all, I am new to this site, although I have been reading it for some time and following all the conversations. I have learned a whole lot of stuff regarding "surf" fishing. A group from our church is coming to Emreald Island third week of Oct. I believe we are well prepared for equipment and plan to catch most of our bait when we get there. However this "fillet" question has me concerned, when I think of fillets I have them deep fried with all the trimmings, when I think of bait I am think a big chuck of blue, mullet, etc. cut up in chunks. 
I guess my question is it legal to catch small blue or other fish and cut them up for bait while on the beach fishing. I don't want to have any issues with the local DMF guys out there, as we all know the law is not open for intrepatations while standing there writing a ticket.
The key may very well be "while engaged in fishing activity".
Any input would be helpful, thanks and keep the pics and information coming in I love reading this stuff good or bad.

This may be my new found Love for Fishing Surf that is.......

Remember Matthew 4:19 " follow me and I will make you fisher of all men"

Have a great day:fishing:


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

bass724 said:


> Hello to all, I am new to this site, although I have been reading it for some time and following all the conversations. I have learned a whole lot of stuff regarding "surf" fishing. A group from our church is coming to Emreald Island third week of Oct. I believe we are well prepared for equipment and plan to catch most of our bait when we get there. However this "fillet" question has me concerned, when I think of fillets I have them deep fried with all the trimmings, when I think of bait I am think a big chuck of blue, mullet, etc. cut up in chunks.
> I guess my question is it legal to catch small blue or other fish and cut them up for bait while on the beach fishing. I don't want to have any issues with the local DMF guys out there, as we all know the law is not open for intrepatations while standing there writing a ticket.
> The key may very well be "while engaged in fishing activity".
> Any input would be helpful, thanks and keep the pics and information coming in I love reading this stuff good or bad
> ...


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## Smally (Jan 16, 2009)

bass724 said:


> Hello to all, I am new to this site, although I have been reading it for some time and following all the conversations. I have learned a whole lot of stuff regarding "surf" fishing. A group from our church is coming to Emreald Island third week of Oct. I believe we are well prepared for equipment and plan to catch most of our bait when we get there. However this "fillet" question has me concerned, when I think of fillets I have them deep fried with all the trimmings, when I think of bait I am think a big chuck of blue, mullet, etc. cut up in chunks.
> I guess my question is it legal to catch small blue or other fish and cut them up for bait while on the beach fishing. I don't want to have any issues with the local DMF guys out there, as we all know the law is not open for intrepatations while standing there writing a ticket.
> The key may very well be "while engaged in fishing activity".
> Any input would be helpful, thanks and keep the pics and information coming in I love reading this stuff good or bad.
> ...


Just to elaborate on surffshr's answer for you bass 724. If you cut up a blue the way you are accustomed to doing (chunking) for bait in NC then you are definitely breaking the law and you can get a ticket. Not just with Bluefish but any fish that has any sort of size or bag limit. You are allowed 15 bluefish a day. And the law doesn't allow you to chunk them into pieces because you could have a cooler full of 14 keepers and then 1/2 a bluefish you are using for bait, if DMF checks you, then you have 15 fish (all you can harvest), but how is he to know that you haven't already Cut threw 4 other bluefish for bait already which would be breaking the law. 

The confusion is about wether you can catch a bluefish, cut the fillets off, leaving the Head, Spine & Tail all connected. Then use cuts from the fillets as bait while keeping the skeleton for varification of the fish you caught. Same thing with spanish mackeral which also have a 12" minimum size limit. As long as you have the skeleton an officer can count the fish as well as measure it to ensure it is @ least 12" in length. 

Myself & seeming most others have always understood that you COULD legally use the fillets as bait so long as you kept the intact skeleton with it. The confusion is because it seems surffshr actually wrote DMF and the person that responded to him says that it is NOT legal to use the fillets as bait. I have NEVER heard of anyone being ticketed that was fishing this way. I think you would be safe to do it & have no worries.

But I urge you not to cut them into chunks, that can get you a ticket. 

Also all of this applies only to fish with size & bag limits. So if it's a fish with no restrictions on it you can cut it any way you want. For instance you can catch a spot on the pier and cut it's head off to use for drum bait and throw the rest in the cooler to take home & fry up.


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## bass724 (Apr 9, 2010)

*Great response on confusion*

Smally, 

Thanks for the information, that does clear some of it up for me. I am guessing that as long as the limit has not been exceeded, then the fish is counted towards the daily limit regardless. 
Is there a size limit on Blue? We are hoping to catch most of our bait fish by cast net, or maybe buying some at the local shops out there.This is my first trip to this area, just want to abide by the rules and regs. I have fished the SC Coast before and not thought about the chunking up of fish for bait, but makes since if there is a limit and size to the fish we are using.

Thanks again, 

Bass in Clover SC


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## Smally (Jan 16, 2009)

There is no size limit on blues. This will show you size & bag limits http://www.ncfisheries.net/recreational/recguide.htm

As for bait, I've been to emerald isle a couple times but the bait & tackle shops that I have been to were not good @ having fresh bait. Sometimes live mud minnows, but as for shrimp, mullet, bunker & such it was always frozen. So to get fresh not frozen bait you may have to hit a seafood shop. But perhaps someone local knows the best place.


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