# Bimini Twist



## AtlantaKing

Well, here’s an attempt to photograph my way of tying the Bimini Twist. It’s not pretty; working the camera with both hands tied up (pun intended :redface: ) isn’t easy. Anyhow, this isn’t the only way, nor am I saying this is the best or quickest. It’s just my way that requires only your two hands, a rod and a reel (my lovely Blue Yonder, in this case). The line I’m using is 20lb Ande in the “Envy Green” color for the highest visibility on camera. Some of the pics are rather dark, and I brightened them up as best I could. Enjoy.  

OK. As promised, two hands, a rod and a reel. Well, and line, of course  Thread the line through the rod, all the way through the tip and all. Pull down enough to reach the reel, plus around a couple feet extra. Put the reel in gear and tighten the drag. 









Make a loop, leaving about 12” of tag end. Hold the standing end and the tag end with one hand, and the loop with the other. 









Make 20 twists however you can. I just “twirl” my left hand and each time it goes around, it makes a twist, so I go 20 times. This part is hard to explain without a video camera so you’ll just have to think about it. 









Now, here’s the part that gets people…”what do I do now that I have a loop in one hand, two strand of line in the other?” and “just how in the [email protected]@#%^$%@^ am I supposed to pull the standing end straight, the tag end at a 90 degree angle, and push the twists up to form the bimini twist portion?” Well, here’s the answer…loop the loop onto the reel. This frees up a hand to push the twists up towards the tag end while allowing the other hand to hold the tag end at a 90 degree angle. After you’ve looped the loop onto the reel, crank down the handle so that it tightens up the standing end and keeps it all tight. Keep your grasp on the tag end this whole time!!! 









Now, at this point, if you’ve been following the directions, the rod and reel should just be sitting there in your lap or in a rod holder, a slight bend in the rod because the line is tightened down, and your hand holding the tag end. Your other hand should be free, and the knot thus far should not fall apart. 

Start the twists by pulling the tag end up at a 90 degree angle to the rest of the line. Keep holding the tag end! 









While still holding the tag end, stick your finger between the crook formed by the twists between the reel and the main body of twists. Push (or pull, depending on your angle) the “crook” towards your hand holding the tag end, letting the first few wraps coil onto the main body of the twists. Don’t worry too much about it being loosely spaced, just get the “barrel twists” on top like in the left portion of the pic where the tag has collapsed back onto the twists and is forming more twists on top of the existing ones. Make sense? 









Still with me? Still holding the tag end? Good. Let’s proceed. As the first few twists form up, you can push them together to form the tight “barrel twists” in the body by keeping one finger of the pushing hand in the crook, and pushing with the thumb and fore finger of the same hand. Basically, you want to make the barrel twists tight and neat, while keeping twists under it. After that’s done, finish making the barrel twists on top of the body until the loop of line on the reel has no more twists, as seen in the picture. 









Here’s a picture of the body of the Bimini Twist close up. Note that the barrel wraps are smooth and tight against each other, with no gaps, and the two legs of the loop are straight. The lines under the barrel wraps are still crossed several times and are locked in by the barrel wraps; this is what contributes to the integrity of the knot. Keep holding the tag end!









Tie a half hitch around one leg of the loop. Now, you can let go of the tag end because the half hitch locks in the body of the BT so it won’t come undone. Some folks like to put a half hitch around the other leg, and then one around both legs after. If it strikes your fancy, feel free. Hey, it’s your line!  









To finish the knot, you make a loop with the tag end, and bring the tag inside the loop _around the two legs_ 4-6 times. 









Now, slowly draw it down until the big loop is gone, but still loose. Lube it up generously with spit, and in one quick, smooth motion, draw it tight against the body of the BT. 









Tighten and trim the tag end. 









Here’s the finished product. You should have a nice, small neat knot and then a loop. The loop is the double line portion of my shock leader knot and the Bimini Twist is what forms it. Depending on the initial size of the loop, you can make the finished loop bigger or smaller. If you want the loop really small, it can be looped on the left side spool knob (on dual knob Abus, anyway) instead of the main body of the reel. I cut open my loops anyway so it doesn’t matter to me. 









Here’s a close up of the knot. 









I hope you guys like it! :fishing:


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## fisherkid

*anotherw*

one for the fishing bible.

Great job.

I still don't know if I want to try it yet:redface:


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## booboo

My knot tying arsenal is quiet limited. What is the Bimini Twist used for?


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## cygnus-x1

booboo said:


> My knot tying arsenal is quiet limited. What is the Bimini Twist used for?


For joining main line to shock leader. The best and strongest way is to do a bimini twist (or spider hitch  ) in your 17-20lb main line and then you attach this doubled line to a 40-60 lb shock leader. This forms a 2 knot system but both knots have a small profile/diameter.


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## justinfisch01

I used to tye the Bimini Twist but I have found personally that an improved Albright knot works just as well. I have never had a problem with it. Does anyone else use this ?


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## Fishbreath

AtlantaKing said:


> Well, here’s the answer…loop the loop onto the reel. This frees up a hand to push the twists up towards the tag end while allowing the other hand to hold the tag end at a 90 degree angle. After you’ve looped the loop onto the reel, crank down the handle so that it tightens up the standing end and keeps it all tight. Keep your grasp on the tag end this whole time!!!
> I hope you guys like it! :fishing:


THAT'S CHEATING!!!


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## AtlantaKing

Fishbreath said:


> THAT'S CHEATING!!!


And your point is? It's tied, right?


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## CrawFish

I tie my differently. I don't use the reel, just 2 hands and I finish with the nail knot. 

Nice job.

ps.. I'd put a picture up, but I can't tie a bimini and taking pictures at the same time.


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## Catfish713

Try as i might i have never been able to tie a Bimini twist. ( i guess it's one of those things that you have to be taught first hand) 

so for mono (I rarely ever double) i use an improved albright knot. and for braid i use a knot of my own that no one i have talked to has ever heard of using. i double up my line and then tie a series of 10-20 half hitches in the doubled line then slip the looped tag end under the last (untightened) half hitch, make sure everything is tight, and trim the tag end flush. it works just as well as the bimini twist and is so easy anyone who can tie a half hitch can do it


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## jlentz

The Bimini knot to uni knot to connect the shock leader has never failed me. I have had trouble with the albright and slim beauties beaking at the knot. The Bimini/Uni knot combination has never broken at the knot, always in the main line. And this is only when I am snagged and purposely try to break the line.


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## AL_N_VB

jlentz said:


> The Bimini knot to uni knot to connect the shock leader has never failed me. I have had trouble with the albright and slim beauties beaking at the knot. The Bimini/Uni knot combination has never broken at the knot, always in the main line. And this is only when I am snagged and purposely try to break the line.


what's up JL.....ya been hitting the SB surf?..pretty sorry striper season..IMHO...


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## LiteTackleChamp

i wana know who had the patience 2 invent this knot , if i ever meet him i will buy him a cold :beer:


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## booboo

The albright knot is what I use to tie main to shock. I can tie it real well and I've never had one come loose or break at the knot - yet. I have seen some discussion on strength of knots somewhere in the past. Does anyone know where that type if info might be found?


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## yogai

booboo said:


> My knot tying arsenal is quiet limited. What is the Bimini Twist used for?



EVERYTHING


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## AtlantaKing

CrawFish said:


> I tie my differently. I don't use the reel, just 2 hands and I finish with the nail knot.


CrawFish, thanks for the PM back. I figured it out now. It was the anchor point for the standing end that was tripping me up.  

BTW, in case anyone's curious, you can also tie BTs that have very long loops, like for IGFA record fishing...:fishing:


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## jettypark28

*Okay i will*

be the bad guy for inshore fishing (like we do) where line test is pretty much matched to the fish we are going after. You really don't need to tie this knot. I know the knot isnt that hard to tie, but i find that the Uni knot tie double up. Works just as well as the "Bimini" and i can do it alot faster and don't need anything to tie it with...Knee,reel....You leader and shock leader should hold up pretty well....and they use it for Deep sea, they double about 15ft or more Don't get me wrong those are nice pictures, and the knot does have it's place. But i like to keep things simple, Uni to uni double up works just as good....but thats just me, nice looking knot


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## Catfish713

Jetty that's me 99.9999% of the time doubled Uni-Uni! :fishing:


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## AL_N_VB

jettypark28 said:


> be the bad guy for inshore fishing (like we do) where line test is pretty much matched to the fish we are going after. You really don't need to tie this knot. I know the knot isnt that hard to tie, but i find that the Uni knot tie double up. Works just as well as the "Bimini" and i can do it alot faster and don't need anything to tie it with...Knee,reel....You leader and shock leader should hold up pretty well....and they use it for Deep sea, they double about 15ft or more Don't get me wrong those are nice pictures, and the knot does have it's place. But i like to keep things simple, Uni to uni double up works just as good....but thats just me, nice looking knot


JP-
Doubling the main line to the shock is just additional absorbtion for the main line to the shock leader.....guess its like having a vehicle that has regular rotary breaks to a car that has disc breaks...you'll buy a vehicle that you feel safe and comfortable in.......you'll tie a knot that know you feel comfortable and have confidence in....but like buying a car their are always better alternatives.

The other reason to double yer line is to allow a transition from your main line to your shock...once you double 17lbs test..it becomes 34...which ya then connect to yer 40-60 lbs shock leader......I used to connect the shock to main line using (single line method) the improved albright or even the uni to uni- but since I learned the BT and even a Spider Hitch..I've never looked back to the single line to line methods.

But to each his own....I've seen and heard tales of folks fightin their fish of a life time and their knot(s) that connected their main line to shock failed...bad knot?bad line?user error?....all reasons that suck when loosin a trophy fish...but if you can control 2 of the 3 reasons....well heck...I'll take tha double line...and improved alternatives

JMHO...


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## jettypark28

*It early*

and i wish i was :fishing: But its to Cold!!! so i decided to do this knot with "Braid"  The knot came out really small (30lb braid) did the 20 wraps then lock it.....I was thinking of tying the leader with a Bristol (no name) knot...Has anybody ever try it???? seeing how small it is, 50 or 80lb braid would cast pretty easy thru the guides, so you will be able to do a few wraps around the spool. You would be able to put alot more pressure, once you got to that point. And your leader should give you enough give. Maybe its already been posted, but its worth trying...


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## Drumdum

jettypark28 said:


> and i wish i was :fishing: But its to Cold!!! so i decided to do this knot with "Braid"  The knot came out really small (30lb braid) did the 20 wraps then lock it.....I was thinking of tying the leader with a Bristol (no name) knot...Has anybody ever try it???? seeing how small it is, 50 or 80lb braid would cast pretty easy thru the guides, so you will be able to do a few wraps around the spool. You would be able to put alot more pressure, once you got to that point. And your leader should give you enough give. Maybe its already been posted, but its worth trying...


 Works great,been tieing bimini to noname in braid to heavier mono leader for several yrs now..
It's compact and strong if tied where the tag end is at a 90 degree angle to the running line..


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## Jesse Lockowitz

"I cut open my loops anyway so it doesn’t matter to me."


im confused or dumb...


whats the reason behind making the bimini if you are going to cut the loop open?


got me confused lol.
Jesse


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## Drumdum

*Atlantic King*

Great demo on the bimini... Many times when in the surf,shockline gets worn and you'll have to change it many times.. When fish are blitzing,I don't just stop and retie the whole works,cause the bimini and double line are still in good shape.. Usually start out tieing a no name,then when shock wears,I'll tie a uni-nail to the same double line again and get two uses out of it.. 
Have you ever tied a nail to finish the bimini?? Used to tie a uni,same as you have in the pic.. Like was said above,I'll use the same bimini and get at least two uses out of the same one.. Have found that the uni,through casting and extra use,can let the tag end go through the loop and start coming undone.. Take the loop on the uni and wrap that around itself inverting the knot,and it becomes a nail knot when you chinch it down.. (Better to see this done than explain it..) Kind of hard for me to explain,but have never seen the tag end slip though when used even when retied the doubled line to the shock several times.. 
If you can figure out what I'm trying to say with the sorry job I've done explaining it   ,give it a try if ya haven't yet,ya might like it...


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## AtlantaKing

DD, that's exactly what I do. I was not able to capture it on camera, so I did the best I could with the pictures. An old mate on one of the party boats I frequent showed me the "inverted uni to nail knot" trick.  If you look at the last pic, you'll notice that the tag end is actually under the nail knot wraps  but thanks for the heads up all the same. 

JL, I tie a back to back nail knot for the shock leader so I don't need the loop. I need the double line for shock absorption when tying small diameter line to big line. But, like DD said, you can tie the no-name first, and then retie with a back to back nail. I just start with a back to back nail, and retie with the same knot (the double line gets shorter).


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## EDMboarder

Looks like a nice easy way to get it done. I use my toes to tie my bimini.


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## Oyster

There still seems to be a lot of misconceptions as to the purpose of doubling the line when connecting a shock leader. The reason we use these double line knots is because of their strength. Most knot strength studies show the bimini twist and the ausi braid as the only true 100% knots. It would be nice if these knots connected the line to the leader, but they do not, they only double our running line, therefore requiring a second knot. When tying this second knot we are lucky in that we have two strands of our running line to work with. Tying the second knot with two strands doubles the knot strength and is why we see so many different knots used. As long the single strand breaking strength of the second knot is greater than 50%, tying it with two strands will take you over 100%. 

If you are not going to use the bimini twist with a second knot to connect your shock line you then should use the Albright. Studies have shown this knot retains 90-95% of running line strength. This knot is very slim in profile and connects the shock line to your running line with a single knot while only giving up 5-10% in strength to the bimini. http://www.marinews.com/Albright-Knot-221.php

I really cringe when I hear folks talk about using the spider hitch as an acceptable alternative to the bimini. Most knot strength studies show the spider hitch as only about an 80% knot. It seems unacceptable to me to instantly handicap yourself by 20% when you have a choice. http://www.marinews.com/Spider-Hitch-435.php

If you can not master the bimini then your first alternative should be something like the Albright where you only loose 5-10% in strength and connect shock leader to running line with a single knot that has a very slim profile. But at only 80%, the spider hitch should never be considered as an acceptable alternate to the 100% bimini.

Remember, we do not double the running line because doing so automatically gives us a stronger knotting system. This is a fallacy. We end up with a double line, two knot, knotting system because we want the 100% characteristic of the bimini/ausi, which just happen to be doubling knots.


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## clpoudnine23

*AtlantaKing...*

Great post.The best explanation and pics I have seen for the BT. I have used the assie braid knot for doubling my line cause my BT looked so bad. After some practice with your method they look great and tested great. Thanks


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## Drumdum

AtlantaKing said:


> DD, that's exactly what I do. I was not able to capture it on camera, so I did the best I could with the pictures. An old mate on one of the party boats I frequent showed me the "inverted uni to nail knot" trick.  If you look at the last pic, you'll notice that the tag end is actually under the nail knot wraps  but thanks for the heads up all the same.
> 
> JL, I tie a back to back nail knot for the shock leader so I don't need the loop. I need the double line for shock absorption when tying small diameter line to big line. But, like DD said, you can tie the no-name first, and then retie with a back to back nail. I just start with a back to back nail, and retie with the same knot (the double line gets shorter).


 I didn't see it it your explaination,but you're right,the end is a nail...  
Purdy werk with you're knot demo,it's tuff to take pics and tie at the same time,looks like ya did a really nice job.. When I first learned that knot,I did it from a Mcnally Knot Book,you're illistrations and pictures,make it a breeze for someone that has never tied one...


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## EugeneChoe

thanks to neil (ntgk), he taught me how to tie that almost in that fashion last year. he did it with 2 hands and lightning quick too. the doubled part was like a couple inches. 
if your reading this ive practiced it a lil, gotta show you. its gotten a lil better. haha thanks


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## TreednNC

*Bump*

Can we Bible this thread?


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## jettypark28

*Before we shut*

this down...Bimini twist knot with PP (Works really well) and tying them with your knees and reels is good....but learning to tie a long one is the key.....and with some rigs, you can do away with a "Shock leader" altogether.  and really cut down on 'Knot's.....Plus it will have a low profile, and get thru the guides pretty good on a hard cast..5ft twist can be tie by one person.....i been messing with ones over 10 to 20ft it takes works and its alot better when you have two people.....(but one person can do it) I would think this would work great with "Shark rigs"..............again it would cut down on so many areas for the line to give......I came across this "Japanese Knot" it consist of tying and plaiting a double knot....it suppose to be just as strong as the "Bimini Twist" and easier to tie.....and you can tie Longer double line, that will be able to reel onto your reel.....here is the site hopefully someone can post it....has my internet skills arent that good 
www.geocities.com/checkitoutsg/plaiting.html

hope it works


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## AL_N_VB

Just read an article in Salwater fishing and they have tested that a 8 twist bimmini in mono is a lot stronger than 15-20 twist bimmini. I will elaborate later.

Saw them Japanese knots..and the article does reference them also...looks like a lot harder to tie than a bimmini. IMHO


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## mlbowman1

Here is a good website for different knots http://www.animatedknots.com/


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## Redhorse

OK...I've been following this thread, and still don't have a solid grasp of how the shock leader is held to the main line by the BT :redface: 

I want to learn this knot, but even reading back through the entire thread...I'm simply more confused than ever. I don't see a shock leader in the first post photos...am I correct? It's merely a BT which ends up with a loop that some people cut and other people don't...opcorn:


I'm obviously missing something, and was hoping I wouldn't have to post my stupid question to find out, but with 31 posts in the thread and no clarification (for my little brain) yet...I figured I better ask.


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## AtlantaKing

Holy cow, I thought this thread went the way of the dodo!   

A few additional thoughts:

Al, the thing with the 8 or 12 turn BT vs the standard 20 (or 40 in braid) is that while it tests out well on a machine, I don't believe the shock resistance is quite as good. I have nothing to back this up except anectodal evidence. But as far as I'm concerned, until there's a wholesale shift from the 20-turn to the 12-turn (or 8-turn) by charter boat crews and SoCal long-rangers, I think I'm going to stay with the 20-turn  

Jettypark28, a long BT can be tied by coiling the excess line on the reel where normally a short loop is looped on the reel. For example, if you wanted to tie a BT with a loop 20' long (both legs are 20'), then you would strip off a bit over 40' of line outside the rod tip. Then, bring the line down to the reel and start coiling it around the frame of the reel until all the excess line is taken up except 2' or so of tag end. Now, crank the reel tight and bend the rod a bit so that there's tension on the standing end, and then pass the tag end around the standing end 20 times to form the twists. Afterwards, tie the rest of the BT as normal. When the knot is tied, loosen the standing end, and uncoil the line off of the reel frame and this should yield a BT with a 20' long loop. Lemme know if this makes any sense to ya!


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## AtlantaKing

Redhorse, the BT is a part of the shock leader system. It is only a means to double the thinner running line before tying to a much thicker shock leader line. This is done to address the inherent weakness of a thin line to thick line knot (a knot is usually strongest if both lines are of similar diameter). Doubling the line helps to "thicken" the running line, and provide extra stress absorption. 

Take a look a the pic that Trey Irby has on his website, this should explain better.


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## Redhorse

GOT IT  !! Thanks for clearing that up for me...I use the uni-uni knot a lot, so all I need to do is master the BT and I'm in there.

You tie the uni with the double strand from the BT to the single strand of the shock leader I take it? Then with a "long loop" BT you can cut your leader off and retie the uni-uni connection a couple times...hence the posts about "re-using" the BT.

Now I need a :beer:


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## jettypark28

*Ak*

yea i understand it, i did other versions with how to tie it...i did more and less wraps, and didnt notice if one snap faster...also did a steady pull and "JerK" Pull....(as best as i could) and it held better with more wraps...(IMO) The "Japanese Knot" really isnt that hard, its just like any knot, once you do it a few times you will feel okay with it....The breaking test i did, were done with a scale and steady pull...both knots held pretty good, and both snap in about the same place....the "Jerk" tested the same.....Jap knot looks funny if you don't get it right...but so those the BT.....i was doing the testing a airplane hanger, so i had the room......another thing i try, was i cut the loop at the end of the BT, and twist the line around itself, (not really hard, but enough) to make the line act as one.....now when i did the pulling test, it held really well.....but another set snap too fastby this time it was time to leave and i havent mess with it anymore....I was doing this with 20/30/50 and 80 pp.....fishing oh when i twist the line over itself (after cutting the loop) it still pass thru the guides really well, and since it is thicker you can really load up on it, if you wanted too and didnt need a glove:fishing:


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## TreednNC

Atlanta King thank you for such a great thread. The real reason I resurrected (spell check) this thread was to get it in the Bible. This is the easiest way to tie a Bimini that I have found. I tried and tried and tried other methods and got it once or twice with another methon, but got it right the first time and every time with yours. I found the link via SOL. IDK how I missed it on here as this is where I spend 80% of my time when Im cruising the forums. Thanks again.


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## AL_N_VB

AK- I am tieing the 7-8 twist Bimmini now....Will try to hook up to a cow nose and see what happens.

BTW - the article was using various 20lbs test.

Believe in " don't fix unless its broke"...but if the 7-8 turn does not break....I'll be a lot faster tieing the Bimmini.


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## jettypark28

*I like*

to take things to the limits I live by the old saying....I rather have the condon and not need it, then need it and not have it but i like testing the heavy lines, cause thats what i use mostly....and adding more twists to the BT, is just about testing it....and learning in case someone down the road, ask me why not use more "Twists" ......i also vote this belongs in the bible section.....AK add some more picture, and it will make it in there for sure.....People love Pictures more then words......i am a reader, so it doesnt matter to me.... but glad this thread was bump back.....pretty good info


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## cygnus-x1

Redhorse said:


> GOT IT  !! Thanks for clearing that up for me...I use the uni-uni knot a lot, so all I need to do is master the BT and I'm in there.
> 
> You tie the uni with the double strand from the BT to the single strand of the shock leader I take it? Then with a "long loop" BT you can cut your leader off and retie the uni-uni connection a couple times...hence the posts about "re-using" the BT.
> 
> Now I need a :beer:


RedHorse not to deter you or confuse you but if you have trouble with the Bimini or find yourself in a fish blitz mayhem and tying a Bimini would take you too long I encourage you to tie a spider hitch. It is a double line knot that is VERY strong and can be tied in under 15 seconds. I don't target marlin, large sharks, just stripers, blues and drum and this knot has served me well. I do plan to learn the bimini but for now the spider hitch is doing well.


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## jettypark28

*Cygnus*

i hate to disgree, but the "Spider hitch" isnt that good of a knot....maybe for short fights, but during a long fight the knot will give....and it really doesnt stand up to strong "Jerk" at all. I tested and just didnt like it, and this came from alot of other people that used it too.....it has work for many people, not hard to tie....but the BT is still stronger, and i rather take the time to learn something. Incase that fish of a lifetime comes along....and if you tie the BT at least 5ft long you shouldnt have to worry about retying in a bliz.....you should have enough BT for that fishing trip.....better to always arm yourselve with the best possible knot out there. this is just my opinion, not trying to shoot anyone down:fishing:


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## cygnus-x1

jettypark28 said:


> i hate to disgree, but the "Spider hitch" isnt that good of a knot....maybe for short fights, but during a long fight the knot will give....and it really doesnt stand up to strong "Jerk" at all. I tested and just didnt like it, and this came from alot of other people that used it too.....it has work for many people, not hard to tie....but the BT is still stronger, and i rather take the time to learn something. Incase that fish of a lifetime comes along....


Everyone has their favorite knots and their own opinions. I may ( and probably will ) be proven wrong in the long run but as of now I have not had a spider knot give out on me. I also have heard from others that the spider hitch is almost as good as the bimini.



jettypark28 said:


> and if you tie the BT at least 5ft long you shouldnt have to worry about retying in a bliz.....you should have enough BT for that fishing trip.....


Forgive me if I don't see the logic but what good does a 5' long BT do you if your main line is snapped above the BT? Then you have to try and do a BT out in 20 knots, cold hands, in chest waders (most of my surf fishing is in colder weather).

That being said how were you thinking a 5' BT is good for retying? Really I don't get the picture so please explain.

thanks


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## TreednNC

Heres one for you. 17lb main line.... since the knot strength of the spider is generally 80% of the line it's tied in, breaking strength would be 13.6lbs....now if youre drag is set at 30% of your line strength then that should be at 5lbs...if you bump your drag to 60% of your lines breaking strength youve moved up to 10.2lbs of resistance. Still 2.4lbs above your typical max drag setting. Max drag on a 525 is 15 lbs....so you may run into a problem if you lock the drag down. Most dont lock the drag down unless theyre TRYING to break the rig off on a cow nose or something. Then again....the typical breaking strength of suffix 17 is somewhere around 23 lbs I think....so the new figures would be 18.3lbs pressure to break the spider at 80% strength......3.3lbs more than MAX drag on a 525mag......there are reels with better drag systems....but the 525 mag was for illustration purposes only and also because alot of these guys use them......thus being said I used to tie double surgeons loop, then spider hitch...now I can tie the bimini...and will continue to do so when I have time because its better and oh so pretty.


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## cygnus-x1

TreednNC said:


> Heres one for you. 17lb main line.... since the knot strength of the spider is generally 80% of the line it's tied in, breaking strength would be 13.6lbs....now if youre drag is set at 30% of your line strength then that should be at 5lbs...if you bump your drag to 60% of your lines breaking strength youve moved up to 10.2lbs of resistance. Still 2.4lbs above your typical max drag setting. Max drag on a 525 is 15 lbs....so you may run into a problem if you lock the drag down. Most dont lock the drag down unless theyre TRYING to break the rig off on a cow nose or something. Then again....the typical breaking strength of suffix 17 is somewhere around 23 lbs I think....so the new figures would be 18.3lbs pressure to break the spider at 80% strength......3.3lbs more than MAX drag on a 525mag......there are reels with better drag systems....but the 525 mag was for illustration purposes only and also because alot of these guys use them......thus being said I used to tie double surgeons loop, then spider hitch...now I can tie the bimini...and will continue to do so when I have time because its better and oh so pretty.


Thanks for doing the math TreednNC. What is the knot strength of a BT? The example you gave was great (for me ) as I use a 525 mag and 17 Sufix tri. I never lock my drag down unless I need to snap the line. 

However your last sentence mentioned (if I have the time) if you are on the beach in December in rough conditions you would reort to a Spider Hitch if you had to get in the water quickly right?

It is pretty I admit but I am not a slave to how pretty it looks ... I just don't have the time. (well I guess I would if I wasn't wasting my time on here all the time   ) 

Then all I offer is that it is another knot that you should have in your arsenal for the proper situations. For me I don't have a lot of free time on my hands until the dead of winter. I plan to learn the BT this winter and prep my rods with it. I will stlll use the spider hitch in the heat of battle and when I am pan fishing with big rods. Sometimes I need to use the big guns to get out far so the greatest pressure on the know is the cast not the fish.


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## TreednNC

cygnus-x1 said:


> Thanks for doing the math TreednNC. What is the knot strength of a BT? The example you gave was great (for me ) as I use a 525 mag and 17 Sufix tri. I never lock my drag down unless I need to snap the line.
> 
> *However your last sentence mentioned (if I have the time) if you are on the beach in December in rough conditions you would reort to a Spider Hitch if you had to get in the water quickly right?*
> 
> It is pretty I admit but I am not a slave to how pretty it looks ... I just don't have the time. (well I guess I would if I wasn't wasting my time on here all the time   )
> 
> Then all I offer is that it is another knot that you should have in your arsenal for the proper situations. For me I don't have a lot of free time on my hands until the dead of winter. I plan to learn the BT this winter and prep my rods with it. I will stlll use the spider hitch in the heat of battle and when I am pan fishing with big rods. Sometimes I need to use the big guns to get out far so the greatest pressure on the know is the cast not the fish.


If Im in the surf in December Im striper fishing and I know the spider will hold plenty for that. No worries. I just recently took the time (all 3minutes) to learn the spider hitch and used it. I hooked up with 2 drum, couple mini biters, several bad casts and a relatively small (3') cow nose and the knot never once failed me. spider with a no name or spider with double nails. I know the spider and no name have been through alot tougher than that...but I know the bimini and it doesnt take that long and is 100% and looks good


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## AL_N_VB

> However your last sentence mentioned (if I have the time) if you are on the beach in December in rough conditions you would reort to a Spider Hitch if you had to get in the water quickly right?


Well..here's my .02 cents...

A fishing knot is worth its weight in gold when fighting that fish of a lifetime.

Learning and practicing to correctly tie knots only makes the knot stronger.

If I was shown how to tie a knot on the spot would I use it? No....why? cause I haven't tied it enough times and the trust has not been established.

With the above said...every knot I can tie..I have done sober, drunk, @ the beach and pier, both nite and day, during good and bad days,wind and rain in face, while I watch TV or take my daughter to the park.
I want to tie the knot so I can do it with my eyes closed. I feel like one of em ancient Buddist monks in training 

A double knot has been proven to be a better knot to tie esp if a heavier leader is used....why not tie a knot like the BT, that is rated 100% its breaking strength?

But with that said....you should tie what is comfortable with you. If it ain't broke..don't fix it...but always keep an open mind.


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## TreednNC

Nserch4Drum said:


> Well..here's my .02 cents...
> 
> A fishing knot is worth its weight in gold when fighting that fish of a lifetime.
> 
> Learning and practicing to correctly tie knots only makes the knot stronger.
> 
> If I was shown how to tie a knot on the spot would I use it? No....why? cause I haven't tied it enough times and the trust has not been established.
> 
> With the above said...every knot I can tie..I have done sober, drunk, @ the beach and pier, both nite and day, during good and bad days,wind and rain in face, while I watch TV or take my daughter to the park.
> I want to tie the knot so I can do it with my eyes closed. I feel like one of em ancient Buddist monks in training
> 
> A double knot has been proven to be a better knot to tie esp if a heavier leader is used....why not tie a knot like the BT, that is rated 100% its breaking strength?
> 
> But with that said....you should tie what is comfortable with you. If it ain't broke..don't fix it...but always keep an open mind.


I will now that I know the Bimini... 30seconds vs. 2 minutes isnt bad


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## cygnus-x1

Nserch4Drum said:


> ...
> But with that said....you should tie what is comfortable with you. If it ain't broke..don't fix it...but always keep an open mind.


I agree ... I never said or implied that my mind was closed to it. I was just offering the gent an alternative to the BT. I thought that the SH knot strength was better than 80% but if that is the case then like I said I will learn the BT over the winter. I do want to be comfortable with it prior using it.


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## TreednNC

cygnus-x1 said:


> I agree ... I never said or implied that my mind was closed to it. I was just offering the gent an alternative to the BT. I thought that the SH knot strength was better than 80% but if that is the case then like I said I will learn the BT over the winter. I do want to be comfortable with it prior using it.


I read 100% but decreases with pressure and deteriorates...then read 80% a couple of other places....for the spider hitch


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## cygnus-x1

TreednNC said:


> I read 100% but decreases with pressure and deteriorates...then read 80% a couple of other places....for the spider hitch


That is why I initially chose it because I read what you read and am just now hearing the 80%. I can deal with 100% decreasing to the mid 90's. I wonder if there is an official knot strength chart out there somewhere.


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## jettypark28

*cygnus*

i havent had the BT snap above the knot, and i don't fish in waders or 20 knot winds....that why i live in fla if it gets alittle windy and cold...we are heading inside...Anyway the longer BT is to be able to grab the line once its that close, and it add more strenght to the overall line, when leading in bigger fish or fighting around rocks and piling....As for the "Spider Hitch" thats another reason, the breaking strenght....on a Machine it test at 100%, but a long steady pull and the knot gives....thats why they say, that it isnt a good knot for a long fight. But another thing is that during a "hard Jerk" the knot has been known to give also. With a knot like the BT fighting in the surf, i really cant see you snapping the main line, unless you were fighting something like a Shark and tighten down the drag....other than that you would, just let a Big fish Play himself out...knowing that the BT will not give in a long hard fight....


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## TreednNC

Jetty I could be wrong but it sounds as if youre not considering that we are using it for a shock leader. Ive never tried it but 

#1 doubled 17=34lbs and that isnt wise for slinging the snot out of 8 n bait. 

#2 doubled line on a conventional is generally kept to a minimun in order to keep it from tangling or catching on a knot

#3 As mentioned earlier in the thread by DD a no-name to your doubled until your leader wears, then snip it close, and use the doubled line to tie a new leader with a double uni or double nail, snip the tag and go again


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## jettypark28

*well*

to a point...you could say i was using it as a "Shock leader" also, when i am throwing heavy sinkers....opcorn: i was just adding what else it could be used for....The BT lend itself to alot of uses.....i was just trying to throw in some more ways of changing it around...opcorn:


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## TreednNC

understandable Jetty :beer:


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## Fishman

thanks I like the idea of using the reel to hold the loop while tying the rest of the knot.


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## Catfish713

idnt this badboy already in the bible?


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## dha123

For braid i add an extra 15 twists


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## t58martin

*gonna try it...*

My go to knots have been the spider to a double Uni. I worked at the bimini over the winter and finally got it right... the biggest problem I had was the down wrap portion laying on nice and tight. Once I got used to adding the tension by spreading my knees on the down wrap, I started to get the nice tight spirals. Not sure if how to do this while the loop is around the reel, but I'll try. Now my go to knots are BT, Impoved albright, always Uni, Palomar, and still the spidey...I still can't snell ahook the way most do.. I either use a uni or a way that requires to cut the leader first.


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## jettypark28

*For*

me snelling a hook with the uni is just as good as the other way, and faster.....and it hold just as well...and its a pretty knot alsoopcorn:


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## terpfan21

*Am I Tying this correctly?*

I have been practicing the BT, and I don't know if it is tied correctly since the knots will slide when I hold it at the knot. However when I try to pull at the end, it doesn't slide.

Thanks.


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## Catfish713

I agree, Jetty, thats how I snell all mine.


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## AtlantaKing

terpfan21 said:


> I have been practicing the BT, and I don't know if it is tied correctly since the knots will slide when I hold it at the knot. However when I try to pull at the end, it doesn't slide.
> 
> Thanks.


The knot should not slide when you grip the knot. This is most likely occuring because there are too many "barrel wraps" on top of the "twists" (if that makes any sense...). If you make the twists, and push it up tight before starting the barrel wraps back down so that when the barrel wraps are formed, it is formed over quite a few twists.


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## JAM

*Know a lot of ole time drum fishermen*

that still to this day do not use a shock leader persay.. They spider hitch about 22 feet of line... Bam there is their shockleader.. I have done this in a pinch way off shore on a bar and it does work..Its a good thing to know how to do could save you a long walk one day, back to the truck.. Great thread AK.. Real imformative.. I am too old and stuck in my ways I'll keep useing the Improved No Name.. 17 for 17 this season (Drum Over 40) none lost, none broken off, all came to the beach to say HI.... To each his own.. JAM


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## gilly21

JAM said:


> that still to this day do not use a shock leader persay.. They spider hitch about 22 feet of line... Bam there is their shockleader.. I have done this in a pinch way off shore on a bar and it does work..Its a good thing to know how to do could save you a long walk one day, back to the truck.. Great thread AK.. Real imformative.. I am too old and stuck in my ways I'll keep useing the Improved No Name.. 17 for 17 this season (Drum Over 40) none lost, none broken off, all came to the beach to say HI.... To each his own.. JAM


 . .
Dang John I thoughtyou were going to break the 20 mark this year. Nice record though


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## jettypark28

*New way*

to do the BT, when using Braid line (80lb PP had best result)......The amount of wraps were taken down to just 12....(than you roll it down with pressure) now instead of locking it....you do a half hitch loop around each line, then you do four locking loops around both lines, and put the tag end....between the half hitch and 4 loop and tighten down......now your tag end is locked in the middle, and it has no way to come undone..........Doing the 80lb PP with this version of the BT, tested stronger then the regular BT......and no chance of slipping...


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## AtlantaKing

Hmm, interesting. Apparently, there's a name for the inverted uni/snell/nail knot used to finish the end: a "Rizzuto" finish. It looks like this is the finish of choice for the south Pacific GT popper guys (Great Trevally-like a Crevalle Jack, only bigger, badder and blacker ).


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