# Sabiki Rigs and MD regulations



## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

Last night my daughter and I went to a local place to try and live line a spot for a Striper. It was near a discharge pipe for a shellfish processing company (can someone say troff ?)

Anyway I had bought a sabiki rig at Gander Mtn and put it to use. It worked great and were able to get live spot for our experiment.

Anyway I thought about it and remembered the 2 hook or 2 sets of hooks rule for MD. Here is the passage from the online site.

IT IS UNLAWFUL TO

4. to use more than two (2) hooks or two (2) sets of hooks for each rod or line. Artificial lures or plugs with multiple hooks are considered one (1) set of hooks.

I know treble hooks are considered a set. Does anyone know if a sabiki rig is considered a set of hooks? I really would like to use these again but I do not want to do so if it is prohibited.

Anybody have a definitive answer on this ... I am sure it has been asked before.


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## fingersandclaws (Oct 17, 2005)

> 4. to use more than two (2) hooks or two (2) sets of hooks for each rod or line. *Artificial lures or plugs with multiple hooks* are considered one (1) set of hooks.


Hey Cyg, I was wondering the same thing, but I think the rules answer your question . . . I think.

Sabiki = artificial lure with multiple hooks

Now, if ya took some 50 lb. test and tied (6) 7/0 hooks to it and slapped some bunker on there, that might be considered a no - no. I think that little piece of plastic/hair whatever on the hook makes that a lure.


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## Desperado (Mar 12, 2007)

Yes, but is a sabiki one artficial lure, or a series of artificial lures tied together. hmmm...  

Seriously, I too would love to know the definitive answer. 

Has anyone ever heard of anyone getting fined for using a sabiki?


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## ilovetherock (Jul 6, 2007)

Where is this pipe at? Thanks!


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## KT_UMCP (Oct 11, 2005)

My conclusion is: If they sell them in the retail stores of Maryland then I would consider it lawful to use them in Maryland waters. If you happen to get a ticket using it then you can take legal action against the retail store that sold it and also the manufacturer.

Always a sour note when you take legal actiopns against another, but hey why sell it if it is illegal.


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## ashtonmj (Apr 26, 2007)

A simple call to the MD DNR Fisheries Regulations would answer the question and get the only TRUE definitive answer.


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## ffemtreed (Mar 29, 2007)

Unfortunately three calls to the DNR will result in three different answers. 

I thought I read somewhere that the DNR deemed them illegal for use in MD waters. 

As far as holding the retailers responsible, I doubt that would fly in court. Its your responsibility to know the rules. And who isn't to say they might be illegal for recreational fisherman to use, but if you have a comericial license they are legal to use. 

Lets take Gander Mt in Salisbury as an example here, you buy your rig that is illegal in MD waters and drive 10 minutes up the road you are in DE and legal for that said rig. Should Gander Mt be responsible for carding everyone who buys that rig to make sure what state they are going to use it in? Or should they not be allowed to sell stuff that people in other states might be interested in. I am sure a lot of people from DE shop in that gander mt. 

Another side note to this illegal stuff, what about those crab alert crab traps that you see in the grocery stores all over the place in MD. The Regs CLEARLY state they are illegal but stores still sell them and i haven't heard of any of the stores being busted for them.


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## fingersandclaws (Oct 17, 2005)

KT_UMCP said:


> My conclusion is: If they sell them in the retail stores of Maryland then I would consider it lawful to use them in Maryland waters. If you happen to get a ticket using it then you can take legal action against the retail store that sold it and also the manufacturer.
> 
> Always a sour note when you take legal actiopns against another, but hey why sell it if it is illegal.


Hey KT, I'm gonna have to agree with ffemtreed on this one. Either the stores that sell the illegal stuff (like the crab alert traps) don't know or or being unscrupulous. I personally believe they don't know, b/c I've only seen em' in random places and not tackle shops.

Calling the DNR sometimes gets you straight, sometimes doesn't. It depends on who answers the phone and how they PERSONALLY interpret the law.


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

fingersandclaws said:


> Calling the DNR sometimes gets you straight, sometimes doesn't. It depends on who answers the phone and how they PERSONALLY interpret the law.


Which really sucks! I just wish they would include it in the banned rigs or not. I do know that pulling a spreader bar with more than 2 hooks is illegal but the sabiki seems to be a relatively new item. Since it is mainly a baitfishing thing I can't see why it would be looked down upon since I could cast a net and get a hundred if I wanted (if I had a good net)

Oh well ... I will bring one with me for bait and ask a DNR person when I get the chance.


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## LiteTackleChamp (Jul 29, 2005)

i emailed a friend for you and hopefully he will email me back an answer


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## ashtonmj (Apr 26, 2007)

Call Dianne Samuels w/ DNR Fisheries Service @ 410 260-8260.


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## okimavich (Nov 13, 2006)

ffemtreed said:


> Another side note to this illegal stuff, what about those crab alert crab traps that you see in the grocery stores all over the place in MD. The Regs CLEARLY state they are illegal but stores still sell them and i haven't heard of any of the stores being busted for them.


On a technicality, I believe the stores are not in the wrong. Doesn't the rules state that it is prohibited in the *use* of said traps. The issue is not with owning or selling them. This is similar to hunting rifles. It's not illegal to own such a gun, but it is illegal to use it improperly.

Anyway, that doesn't stop me from shaking my head at the situation.


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

Totally irrelevent to said current situation but how much damage can one do with a sabiki rig vs cast netting your bait (Im not up on the Maryland regs. so cut me some slack  )


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## fishbait (Nov 11, 2005)

TreednNC said:


> Totally irrelevent to said current situation but how much damage can one do with a sabiki rig vs cast netting your bait (Im not up on the Maryland regs. so cut me some slack  )


You nailed it! The situation seems absurd, since you can catch far more bait in one throw of a cast net. I don't have an answer yet, but I sent an email to DNR to ask for a clarification. I'll share it here when I get their written response.


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## BubbaBlue (May 11, 2004)

Will be interesting what the answer is this time around. This was discussed before and the consensus was that they were not legal in MD waters. 

I agree that cast nets are more productive and it doesn't make sense.
.


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## fishbait (Nov 11, 2005)

Here is the final say on the Sabiki rig: *It's Illegal in Maryland* The email comes directly from DNR along with the entire string of communications because I wanted to include the exact wording of the questions that I asked and the full responses. If you are going to read all the emails, they are posted chronologically from the bottom up, so start at the bottom.



From: Samuels, Dianne [mailto[email protected]] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 4:34 PM
To: Fishbait
Subject: 


The Sabiki Rig is illegal to use in Maryland waters. It has more that two hooks.

Dianne Samuels
Fisheries Service B-2
580 Taylor Avenue
Annapolis, MD 21401
(410) 260-8273
Fax: (410) 260-8310
email: [email protected]



-----Original Message-----
From: Samuels, Dianne [mailto[email protected]] 
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 9:23 AM
To: Fishbait
Subject: RE: Clarification of a regulation.


I actually hit the reply instead of forward for some of my coworkers. Sorry, will get back to you later on the answer.


Dianne Samuels
Fisheries Service B-2
580 Taylor Avenue
Annapolis, MD 21401
(410) 260-8273
Fax: (410) 260-8310
email: [email protected]


-----Original Message-----
From: Fishbait [mailto:Fishbait] 
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 9:21 AM
To: Samuels, Dianne
Subject: RE: Clarification of a regulation.


Yep, that's the product. It has 6 hooks. I think you have misunderstood my email. I was asking for clarification from you since the DNR website lists you as to contact person for questions about regulations. I do not know if this product is considered "multiple hooks" or "one set of hooks". Please clarify this for me. Is this product legal to use in Maryland?


-----Original Message-----
From: Samuels, Dianne [mailto[email protected]] 
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 9:15 AM
To: Fishbait
Subject: RE: Clarification of a regulation.

Take a look at this and let me know if you think this is legal to use or not?

http://shop.oysterbaytackle.com/pro...d/840?osCsid=514b972fe237effed85c1fac0a97d0a8


Dianne Samuels
Fisheries Service B-2
580 Taylor Avenue
Annapolis, MD 21401
(410) 260-8273
Fax: (410) 260-8310
email: [email protected]


-----Original Message-----
From: Fishbait [mailto:Fishbait] 
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 8:58 AM
To: Samuels, Dianne
Subject: Clarification of a regulation.


There is a new product called a Sabiki Rig that is commonly used to catch bait. This rig contains multiple small hooks tied with a little flashing as an attractant. Although it is sold in stores, I am wondering if it is legal for a recreational angler to use?

Here is the Regulation that I believe covers this product. I need to know if the Sabiki rig is considered one set of hooks or if it is unlawful since it contains more than 2 hooks.

IT IS UNLAWFUL TO 
4. to use more than two (2) hooks or two (2) sets of hooks for each rod or line. Artificial lures or plugs with multiple hooks are considered one (1) set of hooks.


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## fishbait (Nov 11, 2005)

Huh.... Not sure why those smilies are showing up in the emails, but they were not there originally.


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## BubbaBlue (May 11, 2004)

The colon at the end of the mailto":" and the "D" of Dianne, equals  smilie.

Sabiki... yup, still not cool even though it doesn't make sense.  
.


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## chump (Jul 18, 2005)

Thanks for doing the research, FB. Now we know for sure. Better go take the sabiki rigs out of my bag.

Thanks,
Chump


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## fishbait (Nov 11, 2005)

You can probably still use them, but you need to cut them down to 2 hooks. So you can get three rigs out of one sabiki!


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

im sorry guys. but some of your lawmakers up in md have their heads stuck some place..... between firearms, the roads and some of the already ridiculous fishing regs now a definate on the other one?


thanks in any case for going through the trouble of finding that out. it was very cool of you to take the time


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## SeaSalt (Apr 29, 2002)

NTKG said:


> im sorry guys. but some of your lawmakers up in md have their heads stuck some place..... between firearms, the roads and some of the already ridiculous fishing regs now a definate on the other one?
> 
> 
> thanks in any case for going through the trouble of finding that out. it was very cool of you to take the time


thats why I live in VA!  this sabaki rig rule is ridiculous and so is the midnight no rockfish rule...


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## ashtonmj (Apr 26, 2007)

Fishbait is right. As long as it is two hooks it is legal. It is illegal in the out of the package form of 6 hooks. A simple snip, add a few new snaps and swivels and you are okay.

It's not a 'sabiki rule', it's a general rule that is worded similarly in many states regulations on the number and sets of hooks on a line connected to a rod. It just happens that sabiki's, a relatively new piece of tackle to fishing, are being interpreted under this rule. Rather then the easy, and all to common, complain/slander/moan, why not get fishing groups together (starting with P&S), to lobby for a clarification on sabiki rigs since their intention is to catch baitfish as a rig.

my $0.02


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## Desperado (Mar 12, 2007)

*How quickly they forget.....*



NTKG said:


> im sorry guys. but some of your lawmakers up in md have their heads stuck some place..... between firearms, the roads and some of the already ridiculous fishing regs now a definate on the other one?
> 
> 
> thanks in any case for going through the trouble of finding that out. it was very cool of you to take the time


Yep, MD may have some crazy laws, but why single out MD? The same can be said for just about any state. I don't know about you, but I can live with a 2 hook sabiki.  

Wasn't that long ago, remember this thread?
http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41040

Seems like that is more to be concerned about than a 2 hook sabiki.


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## fingersandclaws (Oct 17, 2005)

Desperado said:


> Yep, MD may have some crazy laws, but why single out MD? The same can be said for just about any state. I don't know about you, but I can live with a 2 hook sabiki.
> 
> Wasn't that long ago, remember this thread?
> http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41040
> ...



Hahahaha, way to return fire Desperado


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## okimavich (Nov 13, 2006)

SeaSalt said:


> thats why I live in VA!  this sabaki rig rule is ridiculous and so is the midnight no rockfish rule...


Yes yes, and your property tax increases without a cap and you need to get your car "inspected" and taxed every year. Oh, don't forget all the moaning and groaning about Potomac River usage.  

I'll see you on the Bay before midnight.


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## fisherkid (Jun 30, 2005)

*This is why I live in florida*

Did I mention the weather here is really nice

On a serious note the sabiki rule is really stupid


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## dingbat (Feb 13, 2004)

NTKG said:


> im sorry guys. but some of your lawmakers up in md have their heads stuck some place..... between firearms, the roads and some of the already ridiculous fishing regs now a definate on the other one?


I suppose Maryland should follow suit with Virginia’s environmentally friendly marine policies and allow Omega to commercially harvest Menhaden in Md. as well. 

Or perhaps Maryland should open up a winter she-crab dredge season to be in harmony with Virginia’s blue crab conservation efforts.


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

Lets not get into state bashing. It gets us nowhere. All of our states have stupid laws and taxes.

Thanks everyone for chiming in and doing the research. I guess I will have to learn how to throw a cast net. In the mean time I will convert my 1 rig sabiki into 3 seperate 2 hook rigs


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## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

Well, unlike my old home state (GA) that had a limit on cast net size, MD and VA does not. So, I'm looking for my next net now, with no restriction on size...11' (radius) Excalibur, here I come!  

The two hook sabikis work just as well if the baitfish are in a biting mood, and actually make it easier to unhook and put into the bucket. The trick to using the sabiki (whether 2 hooks or 6) is to use a big enough weight to keep the main line straight. Then, when the baits are landed, grab the sinker to pull the line taught, and then unhook one by one. With a 6 hook rig, being that it's quite long, it works easier with one man manning the rod and the other unhooking. With a 2 hook rig, one person could do it by him/herself. Besides, if they are not interested in biting a hook with a piece of plastic attached to it, 6 hooks (or a dozen or 100) won't do any more good


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## fingersandclaws (Oct 17, 2005)

AtlantaKing said:


> Well, unlike my old home state (GA) that had a limit on cast net size, MD and VA does not. So, I'm looking for my next net now, with no restriction on size...11' (radius) Excalibur, here I come!
> 
> The two hook sabikis work just as well if the baitfish are in a biting mood, and actually make it easier to unhook and put into the bucket. The trick to using the sabiki (whether 2 hooks or 6) is to use a big enough weight to keep the main line straight. Then, when the baits are landed, grab the sinker to pull the line taught, and then unhook one by one. With a 6 hook rig, being that it's quite long, it works easier with one man manning the rod and the other unhooking. With a 2 hook rig, one person could do it by him/herself. Besides, if they are not interested in biting a hook with a piece of plastic attached to it, 6 hooks (or a dozen or 100) won't do any more good



So your saying that a regular sabiki needs 2 men to operate? Say . . . 1 bait master and 1 hooker?


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## fishbait (Nov 11, 2005)

fingersandclaws said:


> So your saying that a regular sabiki needs 2 men to operate? Say . . . 1 bait master and 1 hooker?


Hmmm.... I'm starting to suspect that too many copies of the "socialist fishing" manifesto are starting to float around...... Keep it under your hat, boys.


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## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

fingersandclaws said:


> So your saying that a regular sabiki needs 2 men to operate? Say . . . 1 bait master and 1 hooker?


No, no, you've mistaken...if the man operating the sabiki is a master of bait (such as our fine Commodore here  ), he wouldn't need the hooker. It'd be a one man job   :redface:  :fishing:


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## fishbait (Nov 11, 2005)

AtlantaKing said:


> No, no, you've mistaken...if the man operating the sabiki is a master of bait (such as our fine Commodore here  ), he wouldn't need the hooker. It'd be a one man job   :redface:  :fishing:


Are you telling us that for you, it's a two man job!      opcorn:


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## fishhead (Oct 18, 2004)

hmmm ... is the 6 hook version OK in the Maryland surf ... OC, AI, etc.? I thought they were but may be mistaken.


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## fishbait (Nov 11, 2005)

According to DNR, unfortunately, no they are not.


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