# Kahle vs Circle



## zztopsail

Probably opening a can of worms here, but what are the TRUE feelings and reports on Kahle hooks vs Circles.

I know the arguement of gut hooks on Kahle's but what is the real story? 

From my experience, Kahles are the hook of choice for flounder and work great on single and double bottom drop rigs. So what about fish finder's?

In the age of tales of "Global Warming" and other "Green" disasters just around the corner,,,what is the true story of circle hooks vs others. ie kahle, j hooks, octopus, wide gap.

Can of worms here, but I want to know what the true story is and how many of you guys use circle's because they work or you use them because you have heard they work and protect the fish.

My opinion and vote is "I don't know"

Someone convince me.


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## Dyhard

No can of worms here. Kahle used to be my hook of choice, that is until I swithched to circle hooks. I'll never go back for a host of reasons. I prefer Gamakatsu OCT IN-LINE CIRCLE hooks 7/0 to 12/0 for Drum, Stripers and Flounder.


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## Charlie2

If I'm holding the rod in hand, I will use Kahle hooks. If 'spiking', I will go to Circle hooks.

The difference between the Kahle and Circle in the first place, is the orientation of the hook barb. If it points to the hook shank(stem?), it's a circle. Anywhere else and it's a Kahle.

Some people insist on bending a circle hook in order to make it easier to bait. This defeats the purpose of the circle hook. C2


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## Lightload

There are only two occasions when I use a hook other than a circle. One is when I'm drift fishing for flounder and the other is when I'm holding the rod fishing bait bugs for bluefish. Other than those two circumstances, I'll use a circle. And it's not because I'm "green" oriented. I use circles because I catch lots of fish with them! I'm talking bait fishing here, not plug or jig fishing. Also, my rods are spiked most of the time.

As for baiting a circle, if you hold the hook at the bottom of the bend instead of by the shank of the hook closer to the eye they are much easier to bait.


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## AL_N_VB

I have never found a kahle hook strong enough for larger fish like large Drum or large Striper. I also like to use bigger baits that could not fit on the biggest kahle I've ever found... Most kahle's I've found are a skinnier wire and had a narrow gap. Great for pomps and flounder. Not saying that a kahle wouldn't hook a large fish ( 40+ inch drum or 45 lbs+ Striper ).. but I preffer a stiffer Owner 10/0 or bigger circle that I am confident will not bend and I hook a nice peice of bait on.

***IMHO***


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## emanuel

Kahle hooks for flounder and mangrove snapper if I'm working the bait actively. Otherwise, circle hooks. By the way, circle hooks were invented by the most ruthless commercial fishermen out there, the Japanese.


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## Hudak

Circles if I am soaking bait. Less damage to the fish primarily. I rarely keep fish to take home. I stick to traditional trebles when pin rigging or running a free-trolley off the pier. Of course there is a lot of "green" ideas that have jumped on the circle hook bandwagon and rightfully so, in this case. Don't let that discourage you from using them, circle hooks actually work. Just don't set the hook. Allow tension to build and then just reel. IF you "set" the hook, you are liable to pull the hook right out of his mouth.

Robert


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## Tracker16

I switched to circles this year and so far have had good luck with them. I've only had one gut hooked fish out of dozens caught. I usually throw my fish back so they are my preference


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## TimKan7719

For me it depends. If i am fishing Live bait, popping cork, or holding rod in my hand Kahle. If I am fishing Big Fish and Dead bait Cirlce hooks all the way.


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## zztopsail

*. But what about spiked single drop and double drop bottom rigs? Circle or Kahle?*

Ok, I think I got it now. For held rods, Kahle is the way to go. For Spiked rods, circle hooks for Fish Finder rigs. But what about spiked single drop and double drop bottom rigs? Circle or Kahle?

Seems to me that with drop rigs, where the weight is dug into the sand, there is no way for the fish to run with the rig and Kahle would be the way to go as the fish would set the hook itself from the pressure of the from the tight line back to the rod and and the weight buried in the sand.

Someone correct me if my thinking is wrong


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## hengstthomas

emanuel said:


> By the way, circle hooks were invented by the most ruthless commercial fishermen out there, the Japanese.


Might I ask where you got that info ?


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## hengstthomas

Lets get it right ..
Who "Invented" The cirlce hook ?? Read and judge for yourself !

http://www.tepapa.govt.nz/SiteCollectionDocuments/Tuhinga/Tuhinga.18.Paulin.pt3.pdf


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## zztopsail

Normark said:


> Lets get it right ..
> Who "Invented" The cirlce hook ?? Read and judge for yourself !
> 
> http://www.tepapa.govt.nz/SiteCollectionDocuments/Tuhinga/Tuhinga.18.Paulin.pt3.pdf


I would he has you there

Good historical info that might be good fishing bible material:fishing:


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## hengstthomas

Small one-piece matau may also have been fished as a jig
without bait, or perhaps with a small tuft of feathers. These
small traditional hooks are usually illustrated with the barb
pointed upwards, in a position similar to that for a modern
steel hook. However, it is likely that these traditional hooks
were also fished in a horizontal position, with the line leading
away from the point on the inner side of the shank, as
with larger hooks (e.g. Fig. 16C) and as recorded by
Nordhoff (1930), who observed fishing with traditional circle hooks in the Society Islands. Similar one-piece bone
hooks with double internal barbs have been reported from
archaeological sites in *Norway* dated at 7000–10 000 yrs BP


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## AL_N_VB

Normark said:


> Lets get it right ..
> Who "Invented" The cirlce hook ?? Read and judge for yourself !
> 
> http://www.tepapa.govt.nz/SiteCollectionDocuments/Tuhinga/Tuhinga.18.Paulin.pt3.pdf



"Invented" no.. but perfected...yes.


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## greg12345

To answer zztopsail's 2nd ?: I am by no means an expert fisherman but I fish circles on double dropper rigs all the time. I hear your point about the circles getting jerked out of the fish's mouth if it hits the bait hard and the sinker is dug into the sand, for this reason when I fish with circles on double dropper rigs I do the following:

1. Use the absolutely lightest sinker possible that will hold bottom (the lighter it is, the easier it is for the fish to drag it along the ocean bottom and set the circle hook itself)
2. Use mono and a soft rod...when combined with (1) the stretch of mono and the flex of the rod allow the fish to move off with the bait under a nice slow tension...circle hook sets itself again. I avoid braid when using circle hooks.
3. Use longer dropper loops if possible.

I am usually messing around with kids on the beach and never paying attention to my rods so circle hooks is all I use when I am fishing bait...just dead stick it, back off the drag, and forget about it. 95% of the time the fish is already hooked through the combination of 1/2/3 above and I don't even have to set the hook by reeling in. I primarily target pomps using gami circles and sand fleas so take my advice with a grain of salt if you are fishing for bigger fish, etc.


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## BubbaHoTep

This was the first year I have ever used circle hooks. Based on the recommendations of some folks here, I got EC197's and liked them very much on my bottom rigs. I have used kahles when I'm fishing for flounder and gold kahles for pompano for awhile now. I am going to get some of the Mustad light circles and give them a go, too, because some folks on here have recommended them.

In freshwater, I have never used circle hooks. I usually just use J hooks.


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## Charlie2

*Circles vs Kahle*

I use circle hooks; L197 (because I'm cheap) on both single and double dropper rigs with no problems. I also use mono which does provide some flexibility. Our beaches here on the Gulf Coast are flat and the rigs usually rest on the bottom.

I use a rig for cut bait with a single 7/0 circle hook for large (Bull) Redfish. These rigs are on spiked rods and really work. I catch an occasional shark with them with no real gut hooking.

I saw my first circle hook some 60+ years ago when, as a boy, I worked on my Uncle's deep water shrimp boat.

Before a storm, we docked in Campeche Mexico beside a Japanese Longliner.

The crew and I managed to communicate using sign language and they showed and traded me a circle hook as well as showing me how to tie the Longliner Knot. I still tie that knot on rigs and had the hook for years until something happened to it.

I do use a Kahle exclusively for Sheepshead with fiddler crabs because of the way I hook the crab. I put the fiddler on the point of the hook and when they try to steal the bait, I have them. C2


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## Fishman

In a way Kale hooks are circle hooks the work well on flounder and I have caught may Seabass on them with out gut hooking ant of them. 

Just remember not all circles are mande the same and you will on occasion can gut hook a fish on cirlcles. 

In the long run circle hooks are the tools to use for catch and release.


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## zztopsail

*Gonna Put it to the Test*

Ok;

Gonna put all of this to a test this coming weekend at Fort Fisher where me and some buddies are gonna pull a 24x7 on Saturday.

Here is what rigs I have setup and we will fish with each till we decide what is getting the job done and I will report back the results. Bait will be fresh shrimp and fresh cut mullet(no salted bait will be used)

1. Single Drop Bottom Rig with a # 4 Eagle Claw Lazer Sharp Kahle.

2. Single Drop Bottom Rig with a equivalent sized Gami Circles

3. Double Drop Bottom Rig with one of each

I also have some single drop bottom rigs I have tied with 1/0 Eagle Claw Lazer Sharp Kahle that I will use for Blues with live mullet.

Now I will definitely have some Circle Hook Fish Finder Rigs tied onto the two new Daiwa Regal Plus 5500 Bait Runners I just bought.

Tight Lines folks :fishing:


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## boomer

Circle hooks


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## RuddeDogg

boomer said:


> Circle hooks


Yep. Always used circles. Chagned one time this season and it cost me a great fish. Never again. Circles for me especially after this season flattie fishin.


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## Tracker16

Well now I can say without a doubt I prefer circles and they do turn right away and hook fish in the jaw and in my finger too. Just got hooked today so I know. the hook went in turned and rode between my skin and the muscle for about an inch. I forgot to crimp the barb so it wasn't easy to get out (note to self: always crimp the barbs) If it had been a J style hook it probably would have gone right through my finger and required a trip to the ER to get it removed


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## jasonr

So youre supposed to crimp the barb on circles? As I need to replace hooks I plan on replacing them all with circs and want to make sure Im doing it right.


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## Tracker16

jasonr said:


> So youre supposed to crimp the barb on circles? As I need to replace hooks I plan on replacing them all with circs and want to make sure Im doing it right.


You don't have to. But I do alot of catch and release so it just makes it easier to get the hook out without tearing up the fish. I never lost a fish because of it. It's up to the individual


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## Woodchuck

For spiked bottom rigs circles, go to size is 3/0. Most times the fish are hooked by the time I get to the rod. As pointed out above use the lightest sinker possible. If bluefish are heavy I’ll switch over to a 2X-J hook. For me, nothing beats that long shank for preventing bite offs and making hook removal from chomping teeth easy and safe.

Flounder I like kahles. I’ve used circles and had good luck but there is something about giving them that minute to scale and eat the bait them setting the hook that I like. I feel I have lower hookups using circles for flounder.

Big rod with a drum rig, 8/0 circles with a big fresh piece of meat on it. Big rod with the BIG reel night fishing with it tied off to the front porch, 22/0 circle with the biggest fish head we can find on it. (It’s always scary to hear the drag going off on that one!)

For a Carolina rig in the wash. I’ll start with a 3/0 circle and see if I am getting bites. If I’m missing fish I’ll go to a smaller circle and if still missing fish I’ll put a small kahle on. If I am still missing them I get pissed and pull out a #14 (or whatever the smallest size I have is), long shank J hooks with a tiny tiny piece of bait on it. If that doesn’t work I bop myself upside the head for being a moron and move to a hole that has fish instead of bait stealers in it. BUT! I’m persistent and usually able to catch at least one of the little bastages and see what they are. I release it with his new friends Mr. Hook and Mr. Sinker and let them all swim and play out in deeper water.


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