# Surf spinning reel? Help



## Just.fish90 (Jan 28, 2012)

I was thinking of a Penn Spinfisher or slammer?? Ill pair it with a 11ft rod, throwing 3-4oz lead + bait. Will a spinning reel outcast a conventional? I want to get a GOOD distance and i know it depends on the person casting + technique but what do you think. Also what other reels would you suggest? ($150 range) I have an abu 6500 but want to try a spinning reel on the surf.


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

Daiwa Emblem Pro A. Could be in your price ragne depending on where you get it.


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## OBX_Rat (Jul 12, 2007)

A good conventional with a well trained thumb and a little time will out cast any spinner all the time. I love my abu’s.


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

OBX_Rat said:


> A good conventional with a well trained thumb and a little time will out cast any spinner all the time. I love my abu’s.


Very true


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## Just.fish90 (Jan 28, 2012)

OBX_Rat said:


> A good conventional with a well trained thumb and a little time will out cast any spinner all the time. I love my abu’s.


I have read on other threads and sites that spinning reels would cast further which is why i want to try them out. I might still try one out, if it turns out false ill just sell it and get another 6500.


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

I'm not a "thumb burner" expert, but I do believe that if you have the right set up, rod, reel and line you might come close to the distance of conventional, but casting futher, I don't know about that.


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## SmoothLures (Feb 13, 2008)

Probably not the best casting spinning reel available but you can't beat a Daiwa BG spinner for the money.


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## Jersey Hunter (Jul 26, 2009)

Daiwa Emblem Pro A is a good long distance reel that won't break the bank, you really need to put it with a good rod and practice good technique.


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## WNYBob (Aug 16, 2011)

You mentioned specifically that you were looking at a couple of Penns. The Slammer is a good choice and in your price range. The Slammers have great reviews on places like the Cabela's customer reviews and Bass Pro customer reviews, plus there are some Penn and Slammer guys on this forum. You can get the Slammer in a Live Liner, their term similar to a Baitrunner, or a regular single drag if you don't want to fuss with the live liner drag. I have regular 260 and 360 Slammers, a Sargus 6000 which for the price is a bargain for a bullet proof work horse, and a Battle 4000. I recently got a Slammer Live Liner 560 for the surf and am very pleased with it the few times I've had a chance to use it this year, which should work well on your 11' rod.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

OBX_Rat said:


> A good conventional with a well trained thumb and a little time will out cast any spinner all the time. I love my abu’s.


If you are in any way touching the spool to keep your cast together there is no way that your set-up will out cast an engineered for distance spinning set up "all the time" (if ever).

I'm really curious, just how far do you consider such an unbeatable cast to actually be?

Guys are free with statements like, "_a good conventional with a well trained thumb and a little time will out cast any spinner all the time_" but any discussion of what they believe actually constitutes such an unbeatable cast is missing, "_all the time_".

I am quite happy to quantify what I get out of my tackle and welcome discussion on the merits of your statement.

For me with a bare 5 or 6 ounce sinker a cast over 550 ft on a conventional reel tuned for fishing using 17lb line is an edge of disaster affair (and any touch of the spool just eliminates any hopes of achieving that). With my spinners, 550ft is an all day no worries affair . . . And while I can do well over 650ft with my fishing spinners I would not be able to break 600, even in perfect conditions, more than 2 times out of 10 with conventional gear. Max distance is pretty much useless if it can not be repeated with confidence. 

That's what my spinners do for me, allow me to achieve max distance (given the wind, weather and aerodynamics of the payload) when I need it without any troubles or concerns in all weather and in the dark.

I understand the theory of why conventionals cast farther but fishing in the real world, day in day out, I have only experienced this supposed superiority in rare, fleeting, "where the heck did that cast come from" moments . . . And that just isn't good enough for me.


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

^^^ I agree ^^^ now may I add that braided line levels the playing field. For me like Rod my max fishing distance is 500-600ft depending on rig and bait.

Now on the casting field I finished in the top 5 at 3 nationals and farthest I was from a winner was 23ft. Now does that mean there are 1-4 conv reels I can't beat or 20 or so lesser reels than mine? Also I was using a stock shimano and have no doubt I could've casted farther with a long cast reel.


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

I can cast just as far, and much more consistently with spinning gear.


If you like the look of it and can't find the Emblem Pro A in your price range, check out the Emblem Shot. Almost the same reel for $30-40 less.

http://www.pierandsurf.com/fishing-forum/showthread.php?88077-Daiwa-Emblem-Shot


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## OBX_Rat (Jul 12, 2007)

Baitcast reels are called multipliers very commonly in England and europe. 

Baitcast reels throw further than spinning reels and it's due to the line slap on the guides and air turbulance when the line is coming off the reel's spool sideways. in casting competitions baitcast reels (multipliers) are the dominant reels and the spinning reel guys compete in the same class most of the time ... they don't have a special class for spinning reels but there are competition casters that won't switch over to the longer casting baitcast reels. the national record for spinning reels was 745 ft I think and the national record for baitcast is 821 ft and most people can't break the 600 ft barrier with spinning gear. competition casters using baitcasters and then switching to spinning reels will lose anywhere from an average of about 15% distance when they switch over to spinning reels and rods. 

The competiton casting baitcasters can be very highly tuned and it takes experience to be able to get all you can get out of a reel. the most dominant baitcast reel for years was the Abu UltraMag III reels which have a spool about the same size as a 6500 and they use line that's just a tiny bit smaller than 12 lb test line in most casting competitions at .31mm I think most standard mono 12 lb test lines are .33mm ... when a person gets the abu ultramag III the first thing they do it take the levelwind off and any unneccessary items on the reel and then they put a conversion bar in to replace the levelwind and make the frame more sturdy. the frame gets some torque put on them when the caster really has to hang onto the spool in competition casting ... the G-Force is pretty daunting and impossible to hold for me without the use of a rubber coated glove. the magnetics in these reels are on a bandalier I guess you'd call it or a plastic disc with holes in it and a screw thread adjustment and you have to use a dremel tool to take off some excess plastic around the area on it so that when you back the magnets off, they get completely away from the spool ... this is how they control the reels ... they'll have maybe 4 of the magnets left in the reel and take out the rest because you don't want to have so much control that it's too great on the initial part of the cast ... you want to have just enough control that it might fluff just a tiny bit but that's all ... any more than just a little fluff will cause some probems. then when you cast you start backing the magnets away from the spool to reduce the strength of the current eddy caused by the magnets in close proximity to the turning spool ... the closer to the spool that they are and the faster the spool is turning the stronger the current eddy would be and it's like an electromagnetic force that's created but not like the magnets are causing a draw towards the mags because of the polarity or how steal is pulled towards a magnet ... the spools are aluminum so there's no magnetic pull there at all. reels have to have a knob glued onto the original stock knob so that it's sticking out a lot further and you're able to adjust it as quickly and smoothly as you can so that's why you need the extended knob ... a lot of people use a standard wire nut like they twist electrical wires together with when wiring up a light socket in your home. 

Penn came out several years ago with the help of Niel MacKellow and designed a production model casting reel for competition casting and also for surf fishing which is the Penn525 Mag-T or T-Mag and it's spool is just a little bit larger than the 6500. www.hatterasoutfitters.com (http://www.hatterasoutfitters.com) carries these I think ... they're a high end non-levelwind reel that'll cast a mile, per near, right out of the box. there's not a lot of tuning required with these reels but it's possible to make them better ... an important point though is the rod ... the rod is the first thing to consider when casting for distance ... if you put a highly tuned diamond of a reel on a $30 Shakespeare rod then the reel isn't going to help you very much. the most important part of casting is to get a good rod with some serious backbone.


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

OBX_Rat said:


> Wall of text


Wow, you can copy/paste from another forum. Does that make you feel important?


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Just.fish90 said:


> I have read on other threads and sites that spinning reels would cast further which is why i want to try them out. I might still try one out, if it turns out false ill just sell it and get another 6500.


The one that works best, is the one that YOU can cast farther.

Some guys never get the hang of conventionals. For my part, I am altogether uncomfortable with spinning gear. However, I have no trouble believing that some guys can cast stellar distances with spinning gear. It all boils down to a number of variables. On paper, yes, the conventional has the distance advantage. But that is only an advantage, if you can manage your gear. Some guys are almost purpose built for casting. (Short, squat guys, with a low center of gravity, and huge slabs of meat in their arms and legs) If you aren't built like that, you will may never attain those insane casting distances. Other guys have issues with the balance of spinning gear vs conventional. (That's me, by the way...) Yet others are complete dunderheads, and will never be able to master basic casting of either setup. In that case, argument about which is better becomes irrelevant. It would be akin to asking a non-race car driver to explain (intelligently) whether a Renault or Ferrari Formula 1 car is a better car or race with. So it is with reels - until you spend a good bit of time on both, you won't really know what direction your casting gear needs to go.

I'm not like most others - I don't believe that everything in life boils down to a "this is better than that" type of answer. EVERY question you ask needs to be qualified with mitigating data. You can't answer the question, until you have all of the data.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

OBX_Rat said:


> Baitcast reels are called multipliers very commonly in England and europe. . . . . the most important part of casting is to get a good rod with some serious backbone.


Well, nothing speaks with the voice of authority brought about by vast personal experience like a big cowpie of cut and paste that doesn't address a single thing being discussed.

As I said, "I understand the theory of why conventionals cast farther *but fishing in the real world*, day in day out, I have only experienced this supposed superiority in rare, fleeting, "where the heck did that cast come from" moments . . . And that just isn't good enough for me. "


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## speckhunter80 (Oct 3, 2011)

WOW! WOW! WOW! The OP asked will a spinning reel outcast a conventional, and the answer is in the hands of a skilled individual a conventional will and does outcast spinning reels. That is why conventionals are used in distance casting competitions. Now note, I said skilled individual. Me, I have no skills with conventionals/baitcasters/levelwinds or what ever you want to call them. So for me NO a spinning reel in my hands will outcast a conventional. Seems some of you simply want to argue. Get away from the keyboard and go fish or watch basketball. It's MARCH MADNESS BABY!


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## plotalot (Apr 27, 2009)

OBX_Rat said:


> A good conventional with a well trained thumb and a little time will out cast any spinner all the time. I love my abu’s.


Try to out cast my spinning rig, throwing a 1/2 ounce jig in to a 20mph headwind with a concertina wire topped 8 foot chainlink fence 3 feet behind you. This is an actual real life fishing condition I've personally experienced on occasion, though not all the time.

In all seriousness though, there are certain conditions that favor one style over the other, other conditions that reverse which is superior and sometimes it is essentially a dead heat. For me personally, I am incapable of reaching anything close to what any conventional is capable of and my results with spinning gear may not be at their max but I get 80-85% out of it consistently with fair accuracy. 

I am aware of spinning reels, such as the Daiwa Emblem mentioned earlier, that are designed for superior distance over other spinners. However I am of the opinion that the reel you use has the least affect on casting distance when compared to other factors such as guide selection and placement, choice of line and actual casting technique. Since the desired end result is reeling in fish and not seeing how far I can cast,I tend to focus my attention towards a reel's ability to do that. I know nothing about The Daiwa Emblem or any other distance specific reels so I will neither give them praise or talk them down, but would recommend the Penn Slammer as a more than capable reel even if it is giving up some distance to any reel.


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## OBX_Rat (Jul 12, 2007)

dudeondacouch said:


> Wow, you can copy/paste from another forum. Does that make you feel important?


Its not about importance, its about understanding, If someone explains it better then use it, I should have sited the source tho. Thanks for pointing that out buddy, I’ll make sure it won’t happen again so I will not offend you.


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## OBX_Rat (Jul 12, 2007)

speckhunter80 said:


> WOW! WOW! WOW! The OP asked will a spinning reel outcast a conventional, and the answer is in the hands of a skilled individual a conventional will and does outcast spinning reels. That is why conventionals are used in distance casting competitions. Now note, I said skilled individual. Me, I have no skills with conventionals/baitcasters/levelwinds or what ever you want to call them. So for me NO a spinning reel in my hands will outcast a conventional. Seems some of you simply want to argue. Get away from the keyboard and go fish or watch basketball. It's MARCH MADNESS BABY!


Thanks Speckhunter I guess some ppl just want to argue that fact, if you spent a few month learning to cast a conventional, develop proper technique you will out cast your spinning setup. There is always a time and place for different gear. Its like saying is braid better than mono? or fluoro carbon? There are pros and cons to everything. Just find out what works best for you.


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## OBX_Rat (Jul 12, 2007)

plotalot said:


> Try to out cast my spinning rig, throwing a 1/2 ounce jig in to a 20mph headwind with a concertina wire topped 8 foot chainlink fence 3 feet behind you. This is an actual real life fishing condition I've personally experienced on occasion, though not all the time.
> 
> In all seriousness though, there are certain conditions that favor one style over the other, other conditions that reverse which is superior and sometimes it is essentially a dead heat. For me personally, I am incapable of reaching anything close to what any conventional is capable of and my results with spinning gear may not be at their max but I get 80-85% out of it consistently with fair accuracy.
> 
> I am aware of spinning reels, such as the Daiwa Emblem mentioned earlier, that are designed for superior distance over other spinners. However I am of the opinion that the reel you use has the least affect on casting distance when compared to other factors such as guide selection and placement, choice of line and actual casting technique. Since the desired end result is reeling in fish and not seeing how far I can cast,I tend to focus my attention towards a reel's ability to do that. I know nothing about The Daiwa Emblem or any other distance specific reels so I will neither give them praise or talk them down, but would recommend the Penn Slammer as a more than capable reel even if it is giving up some distance to any reel.


Well there good buddy I don’t think I'll be using an 11’4’’ surfcasting rod and an Abu Garcia Ambassadeur 7000 to throw ½ ounce jig.


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## OBX_Rat (Jul 12, 2007)

Any more Richard Heads out there with smart @ss remarks? I'm here all week


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

OBX_Rat said:


> Its not about importance, its about understanding, If someone explains it better then use it, I should have sited the source tho. Thanks for pointing that out buddy, I’ll make sure it won’t happen again so I will not offend you.





OBX_Rat said:


> Any more Richard Heads out there with smart @ss remarks? I'm here all week



Doesn't even dignify a response. Post reported.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Congratulations to everyone who managed to successfully hijack this thread. Every once in a while, someone actually doesn't deserve to have their dick kicked in the dirt, but you just can't seem to help yourselves...


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

speckhunter80 said:


> WOW! WOW! WOW! The OP asked will a spinning reel outcast a conventional, and the answer is in the hands of a skilled individual a conventional will and does outcast spinning reels.


It is my opinion that for a skilled individual the performance offered by engineered for distance spinners can and does exceed that offered by conventionals for fishing.

The higher the spool rpm's the more critical reel tuning, casting form and timing become.

As I said upthread, as distance increases my comfort level decreases with FISHING conventionals. 550+ is a fluffy edge of control affair -- longer casts (600ft) are a 2 out of 10 success rate.



speckhunter80 said:


> That is why conventionals are used in distance casting competitions.


And??????????????????

I thought we were discussing fishing applications? There are super performance applications for many things that don't transfer into real life . . . You wouldn't drive a top fuel funny car in a NASCAR race and you wouldn't drive a NASCAR car across the country on a road trip. 

Just for the fun of it (because you guys just have to keep going there) let's examine some real tournament numbers (I know I am annoying with wanting to discuss actual numbers).

Here is an *interesting post* from an *old thread* on Spinning vs Conventional. It comes from a giant in distance casting, Neil Mackellow.





Black Beard said:


> These are the results from a UKSF event in 1982, the year after I started casting competitively. Distances rounded up/down to nearest whole number.
> 
> You got 4 casts in the morning with a spinner and 4 in the afternoon with a multiplier/conventional. Distances in feet.
> 
> ...




Yes I do . . . 

The differences between the spinner distances and the conventional distances range from 4.3% to 8.5% with an average of 6.95%. This is nearly the precise increase (5% - 7%) that I realize when I remove the rules mandated mono and put braid on my reel to go fishing (same rod and reel, same cast, same weight).

IMNSHO, if someone wants to argue that *FOR FISHING* conventionals always cast farther than spinners (and point to tournament numbers for support) . . . That person would need to argue that a conventional tournament caster can match or exceed his tourney gear numbers *WITH FISHING APPROPRIATE CONVENTIONAL TACKLE*.

Even ignoring braid and sticking with mono one would need to argue that a conventional caster does not loose more than 7% or so moving to fishing appropriate gear (fishing tune on probably a bigger reel, thicker line, moving the reel up the butt).

Hmmmmmmm . . . 



speckhunter80 said:


> Seems some of you simply want to argue.


I am only interested in reasoned discourse based in actual experience and measured results. I'm not too patient with people reciting what they have heard everybody saying over the years. I like to discuss real numbers when this hot topic comes up which is why I always ask those making blanket "_all the time_" statements, "I'm really curious, just how far do you consider such an unbeatable cast to actually be?"

I never get an answer.



speckhunter80 said:


> Get away from the keyboard and go fish or watch basketball. It's MARCH MADNESS BABY!


I work 10+ hrs a day and live a couple hours from the ocean and I detest basketball. So here I am!


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## speckhunter80 (Oct 3, 2011)

YUP, just want to argue. Well you are right. Happy now. You won. Find another thread where you can prove how smart you are.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

ReelinRod said:


> Bull**** reply snipped


Take your meds, give them time to work, and just let it go...

Come on everybody - tell him that he wins, so he will shut the **** up, and go away. All together... Group hug. (and a cupcake)

If you want to argue more, perhaps start a new thread? Seems to me the title of this one says something about "Spinning Reel Help", and from what I've seen, very little of that has actually been given...


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

speckhunter80 said:


> YUP, just want to argue. Well you are right. Happy now. You won. Find another thread where you can prove how smart you are.


And you keep finding threads where you can pop in, make comments that you are unwilling to defend and then get mad when presented with a position that pokes and prods the fables you have convinced yourself are real. 

Jeez, does a little debate really scare you that much? 

The world would be a boring place indeed if either everyone agreed with everyone else or everyone just made comments and then slinked away from defending them. My "smartness" (LOL) is just trying to prove my point. You just seem content in just stating what you feel is true and expecting to never be challenged . . . If you are so easily insulted by contrary opinion I suggest starting your own blog and turning off reader's ability to comment on your pontifications. As for me, you will never hear me apologize for presenting actual numbers from measured casts and adding a bit of analysis to the discussion. 

Hopefully you can appreciate my sense if futility in hearing claims like yours for many, many, many years and asking people again and again and again simple questions like, "I'm really curious, just how far do you consider such an unbeatable cast to actually be?" and *NEVER* hearing an answer.

Thanks for reminding me why I don't bother posting much here. 

Echo chambers and mutual admiration societies are boring.

-----------------

QFT!

The differences between the spinner distances and the conventional distances range from 4.3% to 8.5% with an average of 6.95%. This is nearly the precise increase (5% - 7%) that I realize when I remove the rules mandated mono and put braid on my reel to go fishing (same rod and reel, same cast, same weight).

IMNSHO, if someone wants to argue that FOR FISHING conventionals always cast farther than spinners (and point to tournament numbers for support) . . . That person would need to argue that a conventional tournament caster can match or exceed his tourney gear numbers WITH FISHING APPROPRIATE CONVENTIONAL TACKLE.

Even ignoring braid and sticking with mono one would need to argue that a conventional caster does not loose more than 7% or so moving to fishing appropriate gear (fishing tune on probably a bigger reel, thicker line, moving the reel up the butt).

Hmmmmmmm . . .​


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

solid7 said:


> Take your meds, give them time to work, and just let it go...


No need for meds, I believe I'm the only one speaking rationally and with a connection to the real world, not throwing out theories unsupported by facts.

You have made blanket statements only due ridicule and derision and now you want to make personal attacks.

Really, the tack you are sailing now just speaks to immaturity and lack of experience.

Typical it seems here with the new guys.

Knock yourself out; someday you might learn a thing or three about things.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

ReelinRod said:


> No need for meds, I believe I'm the only one speaking rationally and with a connection to the real world, not throwing out theories unsupported by facts.


I have to give you the benefit of the doubt here... I can't say you're over the edge, but I did find this after a brief search, and I'd like to offer it as a micro-intervention, because I care about you...



> In colloquial usage, one who overestimates one's own abilities, talents, stature or situation is sometimes said to have 'delusions of grandeur'. This is generally due to excessive pride, rather than any actual delusions.


So there's hope for you. But you have to acknowledge your situation... So much pride and hostility...


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## Macman (Dec 27, 1999)

Wow! Is the show over? Clap, clap, clap!


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

solid7 said:


> I have to give you the benefit of the doubt here... I can't say you're over the edge, but I did find this after a brief search, and I'd like to offer it as a micro-intervention, because I care about you...
> 
> 
> 
> > In colloquial usage, one who overestimates one's own abilities, talents, stature or situation is sometimes said to have 'delusions of grandeur'. This is generally due to excessive pride, rather than any actual delusions.


Well, in order to support that diagnosis you would need to bring into question the claims I have made; that I am making claims about myself and the equipment unsupported by facts or performance. Problem with that is that my numbers are out there in many official records of tournaments and I have a history of backing up what I say. 

Now, examination of your claim finds zero support in the real world (and that you have not experienced what a long cast spinning set-up has to offer is not proof that my position is wrong). There seems to be little possibility that any cognizant and reasonable presentation of proof will ever be forthcoming for the statement, "A good conventional with a well trained thumb and a little time will out cast any spinner all the time." nor have you presented any rebuttal to my critique of that statement.

The question of who is suffering from delusions seems to be a glass houses / throwing stones situation.



solid7 said:


> So much pride and hostility...


Not hostility, the only ones demonstrating hostility and engaging in personal attacks is you. 

I would prefer a reasoned debate focused on facts.

You reject that and choose to offer pseudo-psychiatric diagnoses as a proxy for intelligent debate.

I'm not impressed.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

ReelinRod said:


> "A good conventional with a well trained thumb and a little time will out cast any spinner all the time." nor have you presented any rebuttal to my critique of that statement.
> 
> The question of who is suffering from delusions seems to be a glass houses / throwing stones situation.


You seem to be wrongly attributing that quote to me, Mr. Factoid. Personally, I don't give a damn. I tried to balance the whole conversation by pointing out that different people can do different things with different equipment, based on different variables. I couldn't care less about your bias, and this wasn't started as a topic to develop theories or emotions around either. 

On the contrary, I pointed out that you (and a couple of others) hijacked the guy's thread with your ego trip. That's still true.




ReelinRod said:


> You reject that and choose to offer pseudo-psychiatric diagnoses as a proxy for intelligent debate.
> 
> I'm not impressed.


Of course your aren't. Your delusions of grandeur won't let you be. (as you ignore the fact that I never engaged you in any debate to begin with) Of course, you'll be back to try to prove to everyone how smart you are, so just get it over with... You know you want to.


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

This thread delivers. opcorn:


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## Peixaria (Dec 31, 2008)

Reelin Rod, With everything said. how are you set up exactly if you don't mind. If you are routinely getting 550 600 with a long range spinner then I want one. Thanx or perhaps a PM


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

Peixaria said:


> Reelin Rod, With everything said. how are you set up exactly if you don't mind. If you are routinely getting 550 600 with a long range spinner then I want one. Thanx or perhaps a PM


My present set-ups represent the upper tier of tackle available in the world (most of the reels are not available here in the USA) and if there is one valid negative for my 'side' in this spinner vs. conventional debate it is the top engineered for distance spinning reels can be expensive.

The Basia is currently around $900.










There’s $450 worth of conventionals and $2300 worth of spinners in my rack here . . .










That photo is a few years old and I have never shuned conventional, I buy and try all high performance offerings. I sold the 7HT MAG after a couple years because it couldn’t give me what I wanted.

Happily though, Daiwa has incorporated the spool profile of one of its best reels in their present mid price range offerings and when it comes to distance, the spool profile is worth 90% of the performance. The current Emblem Pro A and the Sea Line Bite and Run share spool geometry with the old (mid 80’s) Whisker SS, one of the best casters ever offered.

Old Whisker SS-3000:










New Emblem Pro A 5000 (deeper spool but same overall geometry):










The Emblem Pro A and Bite-N-Run can be had for under $200 and if you are a good shopper, well under. Amazingly, 30 year old SS-3000's command nearly as much and even more in Europe.

I use high performance rods too, custom jobs from CTS, Century, All Star and Rainshadow. The one thing that really opens up when you choose spinning reels is the ability to use zoned action rods to their full potential. So many conventional guys choose slow and moderate actioned rods because they are easier to load and more forgiving with timing and release errors. With spinners you can move right into the better performing zoned action rods and cast with less concern for perfection and more focus on violence at the hit. A good spinner caster is noted for the for the ”snap” at the end of the cast, which is of course the last thing a conventional caster wants. That may be a reason why each camp has trouble converting to the other tackle type and getting exceptional results. I am quite aware that when I let the violence of my spinner cast creep in to my conventional cast, spool control issues emerge.

Of course my chosen line is braid which you, depending where you fish, you might find goes against the grain. I try to find the thinnest available that doesn’t give me headaches; presently that is Berkeley Whiplash but I am patiently waiting for a few spools of Daiwa Tournament 8 with my Whiplash order from the UK. On my 3-6 ounce distance gear I use 20lb running line with an 80lb braid casting leader and on my 7oz and up set-ups it is 30lb with 100+lb braid casting leader.

Spinner distance, especially upper tier distance forces you to approach the tackle as a system. Each component, reel, rod, line and guides are chosen to work together. Having a long spool reel and a good rod but loading it with 65lb braid is not reaping the benefits of braid’s distance enhancing qualities. Likewise, having thin braid on a decent reel and a crappy rod that collapses under a good cast isn’t going to get you there either.

I have spent 30+ years refining my tackle and discovering the limits of different tackle types and for fishing, the performance that a well thought out spinner system can offer is nothing short of astounding really. I've had many guys try one of my set-ups and just turn around wide-eyed.

The best feeling is rolling up on a big school of bass feeding on bunker that is 50 yards out of everybody's range, casting 175 yards and snag-n-dropping a nice one out of that mayhem while 20 guys look on.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

solid7 said:


> You seem to be wrongly attributing that quote to me, Mr. Factoid.


No, I would have said "your" statement before the quote. 

I used that quote in that post to you because it represented the general position that I rebutted -- a rebuttal which you characterized as a "_bull**** reply_" without any actual on-point contradicting argument presented. All you brought to the discussion was personal insults including a run-down of the mental disorders you deem I suffer from.



solid7 said:


> Personally, I don't give a damn.


That is not reflected in your posts. 

It is obvious that you have many strongly held opinions . . . even about the OP's -_which is better_- question and certainly about my position but you seem either unwilling or incapable of conveying any intelligent discussion on those topics. All you do produce are personal insults and now, claims that you are the great uniter and sage only wanting to sing Kumbuya and have a group hug.



solid7 said:


> I tried to balance the whole conversation by pointing out that different people can do different things with different equipment, based on different variables.


Hate to say it but you calling my post a "_bull*** reply_" kinda makes ^that^ a bull**** statement.



solid7 said:


> I couldn't care less about your bias, and this wasn't started as a topic to develop theories or emotions around either.


Again, a bull**** statement.

I have no "bias"; my experience casting both tackle types over the last 40 years has formed my opinion which I laid out supported with data. Attack my data and conclusions not me.



solid7 said:


> On the contrary, I pointed out that you (and a couple of others) hijacked the guy's thread with your ego trip. That's still true.


I tried to support my opinion with my experience and analysis of actual casting distance and performance and YOU dismissed it as a, "_bull**** reply_" without any rebutting position stated (then or now) . . . and now you want to accuse others of hijacking the thread?

REALLY?????



solid7 said:


> Of course your aren't. Your delusions of grandeur won't let you be. (as you ignore the fact that I never engaged you in any debate to begin with)


Absolutely correct -- YOU DID NOT OFFER ANY DEBATE NOR A SYLLABLE OF REASONABLE DISCOURSE.

Your first post to me called my post a "_bull**** reply_" and you offered your opinion on the condition of my mental health and now you continue on that same tack sailing for the same rocks avoiding at all costs any discussion of anything pertaining to fishing all the while being the board cop handing out summons for violations of board etiquette and you accuse me of having "delusions of grandeur". 

Simply amazing . . .



solid7 said:


> Of course, you'll be back to try to prove to everyone how smart you are, so just get it over with... You know you want to.


I will admit I do deeply enjoy pointing out the profound deficiencies in your logic and reasoning and the contemptible hypocrisy and utter ridiculousness of your posts.

It isn't too difficult to act smart when I am replying to you.

I am done with you now.


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

ReelinRod said:


> On my 3-6 ounce distance gear I use 20lb running line with an 80lb braid casting leader and on my 7oz and up set-ups it is 30lb with 100+lb braid casting leader.


If you don't mind, what knot do you use to connect your main line to your shock leader? I've been using uni-to-uni with great success for my braid connections, but if there's something that works better, I'm willing to give it a go.

Also, what's your solution to briad's abrasion problems in actual fishing situations? I know I used to get tailed off quickly and easily when the grey suits were around. My solution has been making surf-casting-specific hollow core spliced 80-100lb mono leaders like the wind-ons that the offshore guys use, but _much_ shorter and without the loop-to-loop connection.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

I use the Uni-Knot too. I double the thinner line and tie 5 turn Uni's in each and tighten down with a lot of pressure before trimming.

I always have at least 4ft of mono at the end of everything, sometimes more depending on the rig / lure I am using. Pulley rigs especially need mono above, past the highest point the hook could reach. With my up-and-over pulley rigs (like my shark rigs) I take the mono up as far as my drop will permit.

Shell bed abrasion is a problem but going to the heavier braid (100lb or more) takes care of all but the worst cases. Top of the bar abrasion (when I'm fishing over the outside bar) is just something that you need to deal with as part of the game. Sometimes you win, sometimes the fish wins.


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

So how do you go about attaching your mono to your braid? I've tried a few different knots, but nothing seems to work or cast as well as a spliced leader.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

ReelinRod said:


> I will admit I do deeply enjoy pointing out the profound deficiencies in your logic and reasoning and the contemptible hypocrisy and utter ridiculousness of your posts.


Translation - "I like to argue, and use multi-syllabic words while doing so".

I already got that.




ReelinRod said:


> It isn't too difficult to act smart when I am replying to you.


I learned long ago never to doubt the ability of a narcissist to believe in his/herself... 

Say hello to Dr. Hawking for me at your next MENSA meeting...


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

MENSA? 

Those jokers wanted $80 a year to be a member and you don't get anything other than a geeky newsletter. Weaksauce.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

dudeondacouch said:


> MENSA?
> 
> Those jokers wanted $80 a year to be a member and you don't get anything other than a geeky newsletter. Weaksauce.


What more could you want?


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Where do you park your Truck?

I am digging that $900 Spinner (It looks real real long distance to me and I grew up with ABU's and the OBX)

If Mensa costs $80 per year to be known and accepted as a smart person.... then in only 11.25 years that $900 Spinner will pay for itself and I will be smart for making an investment that it sure to win a few Rod for Rod Skunk downs

I would rather be long......than smart.....


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

Those Basia reels do look nice, but I can get 2 new Emblem Shot 5000s for that money and still have enough left for an LDX and an HDX. 
Who's smart now?


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

dudeondacouch said:


> So how do you go about attaching your mono to your braid? I've tried a few different knots, but nothing seems to work or cast as well as a spliced leader.


Mono stays completely outside the guides so connection is just a swivel. 

As for as the Basia's price, I didn't spend $900 for it; I bought it back in 2003 when it first came out and paid $465. Of course one could make the argument that there is no difference, that the dollar has tanked _that_ much. I do know that JDM reels I bought in 2010 have not gone up in price in Yen but if I wanted to buy them today they each would be $44 more. 

Keep printing Ben!


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

According to this intel group I just signed up with I am pretty smart...........although it did cost me $80

I did take the time to go out today and chuck a couple of twenty year old Surf Sticks with a Abu 7000 and a 8600
and while I was not getting 175 yards with them I was making the ABU's hum....I had to throw in a shallow part of the Potomac and kept getting hung up, after three rigs lost I headed home. No fields large enough near me to throw, Real Estate is too pricey for a large field...My regular spot was blocked off by construction, I was throwing in Reel World circumstances on a steep incline kinda like the beach, modified pendulum cast with 8 oz weight and not sure how far it was going but it was humming right along...

"The best feeling is rolling up on a big school of bass feeding on bunker that is 50 yards out of everybody's range, casting 175 yards and snag-n-dropping a nice one out of that mayhem while 20 guys look on."

Better feeling is pulling up to the Point and casting a bloody bait out further than the rest and then immediately bowing up to the first Drum while 200 fellas look on.....



I have an EmblemX which sits on a lighter weight rod I built for 3-6 ounces and that is the largest Spinner I have at the moment. I just cast plugs on it. 

If there is more than 6 oz involved it is a conventional for me and so far none of the Yankees who claim to cast bait super far with Spinners has ever been around me and I out cast all the Spinner people I have come across.....law of inertia, what is in motion ( reel spool) tends to stay in motion......but that silver reel looks pretty menacing..

For $900 I would prefer six new Sl30H's and I will just use the All Stars in the garage....but that long spool reel looks nice....but it seems like it has been devalued to $465, so I will hang with my EmblemX which when Cabelas put on discount I picked up for $50.00.....


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

I would like to clarify that when casting conventionals for distance I am referring to 8 and bait and would venture to say that 145-150 yards is all that I can attain (smallish bait, not in gale force winds, not at night, above 65 degree temps, casting from the planks, less distance from the sand)

With no bait 8 ounce bullet sinker 175-180 yards using 13 foot cut down 1508 All Star with a Competition butt and Penn 525M with extra mags and 17 pound suffix and beach pendulum short drop cast. Do not thumb the cast and use a rubber flap to keep the spool from slipping at the beginning of the cast. I can get this pretty consistent for a about thirty casts in a row then I start to get tired and sloppy and need a break, I am old 58 but have thrown a heaver a good deal for thirty years and would be considered well versed in Conventional Surf/Pier fishing..Last year when I was in practice I was all but emptying a Daiwa SHV20/1509 which was spooled with 17.
None of my fishing friends use spinners with the exception of one Point Regular Big Ed, every one uses conventional reels.

Perhaps I should put the EmblemX on one of these heavers and do a test run wearing gloves and see what happens..


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## Lynn P. (Sep 7, 2007)

Don't bother Garbo....enough said. Big Ed and probably Kevin Mc. have been my hero's with spinning...but there's lots in the crowd who throw with and past them. Personally, I haven't seen anyone throw past them with spinning tackle in a fishing environment.


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

get a thunnus 16000f load it up with 17lb mono and go long....or load it with braid and go longer, works for me


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## 9 rock (Nov 30, 2008)

Here we go again , I thought tommy took care of this argument few yrs back... bottom line is conventionals do cast farther at the end of the day with any line u choose on a spinner , but in most cases a good spin caster will outcast a average conventional caster
Yes I agree spinners are much easier to cast thats why so many people use them 90% of the people I know or talk too fish spinners because they cant cast conventionals
I fish both and at my ability I am close with both and would say I probaly throw my spinner farther most of the time from shore where I can let it rip.. 
However standing in water at the point no guestion conventional is farther for me , not to mention a lot lighter and much easier to fight the fish with conventional tackle


9


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## OBX_Rat (Jul 12, 2007)

Well said 9 rock


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

9 rock said:


> I thought tommy took care of this argument few yrs back...


Tommy answered the question for him. The question remains open because it does not make sense how a AAA caster (me) can equal or exceed (685' - 720') the distances posted by a Master class caster for spinning tackle with braid.



9 rock said:


> bottom line is conventionals do cast farther at the end of the day with any line u choose on a spinner


As I posted earlier:


-------------------------------
Here is an *interesting post* from an *old thread* on Spinning vs Conventional. It comes from a giant in distance casting, Neil Mackellow.




> These are the results from a UKSF event in 1982, the year after I started casting competitively. Distances rounded up/down to nearest whole number.
> 
> You got 4 casts in the morning with a spinner and 4 in the afternoon with a multiplier/conventional. Distances in feet.
> 
> ...




Yes I do . . .

The differences between the spinner distances and the conventional distances range from 4.3% to 8.5% with an average of 6.95%. This is nearly the precise increase (5% - 7%) that I realize when I remove the rules mandated mono and put braid on my reel to go fishing (same rod and reel, same cast, same weight).

IMNSHO, if someone wants to argue that FOR FISHING conventionals always cast farther than spinners (and point to tournament numbers for support) . . . That person would need to argue that a conventional tournament caster can match or exceed his tourney gear numbers WITH FISHING APPROPRIATE CONVENTIONAL TACKLE.

Even ignoring braid and sticking with mono one would need to argue that a conventional caster does not loose more than 7% or so moving to fishing appropriate gear (fishing tune on probably a bigger reel, thicker line, moving the reel up the butt).​

---------------------------

It is my conclusion from the above results and my experience (with mono vs. braid performance) that an engineered for distance spinner set-up with braid can equal or even exceed the performance of a conventional *tournament* set-up. 

For *fishing*, unless one wants to argue that a conventional tournament caster can put up the same numbers with fishing appropriate tackle, the blanket statements that the, "_bottom line is conventionals do cast farther at the end of the day with any line u choose on a spinner_" and "_A good conventional with a well trained thumb and a little time will out cast any spinner all the time._ "can not be supported.



9 rock said:


> but in most cases a good spin caster will outcast a average conventional caster


That is certainly true which is why I bristle at the robotic posts that tell everybody that conventionals always outcast spinners for *fishing*. That's what draws me into these discussions because, when the actual numbers are examined those blanket statements are provably untrue.

At this point the debate about _fishing_ is really over three points and whether the percentages I apply are correct:


Whether Mackellow's results are truly representative of what top level casters who cast both tackle types in competition can do (average of 7% difference for 5oz+/-).

Whether the change from mono to braid actually gives a measurable increase in casting performance for engineered for distance spinners (I say it is 5% - 7% increase).

Whether a conventional tournament caster can match or exceed his tourney gear numbers WITH FISHING APPROPRIATE CONVENTIONAL TACKLE. (I say that the move from tournament gear to fishing gear costs *more* than 7% in distance).


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

And.....y'all expected anything different to come from this discussion??????


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

AbuMike said:


> And.....y'all expected anything different to come from this discussion??????


What I find hilarious is that people constantly argue about which is better... when most people can't even cast to the potential with EITHER setup - and probably never will. 

But, I think any rational person will chuckle quietly while suffering a fool... I say let this discussion RAGE


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

AbuMike said:


> And.....y'all expected anything different to come from this discussion??????


Well, nothing will change because as long as people post, 

_"bottom line is conventionals do cast farther at the end of the day with any line u choose on a spinner"​_
and 

_"A good conventional with a well trained thumb and a little time will out cast any spinner all the time."​_

I will reply with the oppositional position that that for *fishing*, vs. engineered for distance spinning tackle, such blanket statements can not be supported. 

I can also promise that I will never apologize for sarcastic responses to having my posts called bull**** and being told I suffer from various mental disorders.

So,

Do you have anything to add that questions Mackellow's numbers, the percentages I've applied or my analysis?

Simple question, what is your (or anyone's) estimate of the difference between a conventional tournament caster's distance with tourney gear and his fishing distance with appropriate for fishing conventional gear? 

If the difference is more than the difference between the tackle types represented in Mackellow's post* then my argument has merit.

*
Average spinner distance 669'
Average conventional distance 715.5'
Difference 6.95% = 46.5'


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

solid7 said:


> But, I think any rational person will chuckle quietly while suffering a fool... I say let this discussion RAGE


As far as your contribution to this thread it can hardly be called "discussion".

And now once again you have reverted back to the comfort zone of those with no capacity for reasoned debate . . . the personal insult.


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

I think we should bring closed-face reels into this discussion. opcorn:


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

And what makes you an expert on Casting Spinners Long Distances....????????? POSER!!!!! LMAO LAMO









markedwards said:


> ^^^ I agree ^^^ now may I add that braided line levels the playing field. For me like Rod my max fishing distance is 500-600ft depending on rig and bait.
> 
> Now on the casting field I finished in the top 5 at 3 nationals and farthest I was from a winner was 23ft. Now does that mean there are 1-4 conv reels I can't beat or 20 or so lesser reels than mine? Also I was using a stock shimano and have no doubt I could've casted farther with a long cast reel.


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

I love a good discussion, arguement, debate or what ever name ya want to come up with. What I enjoy even more is when someone proves a point and all the other person can do is start name calling to show his side, when it breaks down to having to call someone names who is the real winner?

Can't remember who posted it up but it is a prize winner and proves my point.

"When ya fight with a pig even if ya win you still wind up as dirty as the pig" yea I know I didn't hit it word for word but yall get the point.

I would post up my view points but since everyone would know I am correct that would end the discussion


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

Looking at the picture of your RACK (well really the reels in the rack) is better than any Rack I've seen in those Adult Magizines.. LOL HOWEVER I have to ask the OBVIOUS question.. You say you buy the all the High End gear on the market but I only see ONE Shimano!!!!! What the f$#% is going on?????? Where is the Aero Technium? Step your game up SLACKER..... LMAO!!!!!!!!   




ReelinRod said:


> My present set-ups represent the upper tier of tackle available in the world (most of the reels are not available here in the USA) and if there is one valid negative for my 'side' in this spinner vs. conventional debate it is the top engineered for distance spinning reels can be expensive.
> 
> The Basia is currently around $900.
> 
> ...


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

no argument here, i been down this road with many of these same folks.......I just want to see some of them cast a 7-8oz baited ff rig 600'..200 yards from wash on the sand into the ocean at night while Drum fishing. then you can talk all the smack you want...........Ain't gonna happen though, no matter how much some of you want it.....


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

ReelinRod said:


> Do you have anything to add that questions Mackellow's numbers, the percentages I've applied or my analysis?


No, none at all. In fact, I've been more than happy to agree since the beginning, that different folks can achieve different results, with different gear. Some people can cast conventional gear further than spinners and vice versa. In my case, I can't cast a spinner as far, because of the residual effects of a shoulder injury. The motion required for casting the spinning setup - for whatever reason - agitates me, whereas the conventional does not. Any other preference I have for conventional gear is strictly for personal reasons. I will NEVER tell you that a conventional beats a spinning setup every time. (especially on lighter tackle) And no, I don't believe in the "well trained thumb" theory.

I just love watching you go off, ReelinRod. Sorry, I know that to get away with that around here, I'm supposed to add this ---> opcorn: (but that might make it too obvious)

I love to imagine you popping a cork, and spending the better part of a day climbing ego hill, to craft your pompous replies. In the end, maybe everything you say is 100% correct. Maybe you end up adding to the discussion in ways that are beyond stellar. I just see a guy a who refuses to be one-upped, or to be wrong at any cost, and I can't help but push the button. In the end, you get to make your point, I get to watch you go ballistic, and maybe somebody else gets something out of the thread. We all win.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Shooter said:


> when it breaks down to having to call someone names who is the real winner?


The guy who receives the most "like" votes, obviously.

We need a rating system around here...


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## speckhunter80 (Oct 3, 2011)

I am right and you are wrong, so there....nanna nanna HA HA


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

Kwesi W. said:


> Looking at the picture of your RACK (well really the reels in the rack) is better than any Rack I've seen in those Adult Magizines.. LOL HOWEVER I have to ask the OBVIOUS question.. You say you buy the all the High End gear on the market but I only see ONE Shimano!!!!! What the f$#% is going on?????? Where is the Aero Technium? Step your game up SLACKER..... LMAO!!!!!!!!























AbuMike said:


> I just want to see some of them cast a 7-8oz baited ff rig 600'..200 yards from wash on the sand into the ocean at night while Drum fishing. then you can talk all the smack you want...........Ain't gonna happen though, no matter how much some of you want it.....


My posts have been about distances achieved with 5+/- ounces (since the recorded distances that I am using were made with that weight). The general blanket statements I am rebutting have no qualifiers as to payload being cast. As for 8NBait, revive the Castamuck thread in the VA forum and set a date. I've been known to drive down to your neck of the woods just to cast with y'all. 



solid7 said:


> I just love watching you go off, ReelinRod. . . . I love to imagine you popping a cork, and spending the better part of a day climbing ego hill, to craft your pompous replies.


Do you think that I get angry at what you guys say? I will admit frustration and a sense of futility when people choose personal insult over intelligent discourse but that's the way these internutz forums go. I really, _really_, *REALLY* enjoy online debate and have done it since before web based forums like this one existed; I began on USENET in 1991 debating subjects much more intense than this. I still do today on the web on over 20 different political boards. 

My favorite subject is the Constitution and gun rights and I can't convey just how much fun it is to engage in heated but intelligently debated discussions. Jeez, if anyone is on an ego trip it is you thinking that these fishing trivialities are more than a passing moment of amusement for me. I have spent days composing posts but those are ones with many hours of legal research and quite complicated explanations. 



solid7 said:


> I just see a guy a who refuses to be one-upped, or to be wrong at any cost, and I can't help but push the button.


"Pushing buttons" is done by using logic and wit to figuratively disembowel your opponent, not by calling them names. The tactic of personal attack is the last (non-violent) reaction to imminent defeat that the overmatched turn to. For some, who can't hope to spar in the field of ideas, personal attack is the first arrow out of the quiver and that only signifies the fight was over before it started.

I am very sad to say that the level of discourse and debate has devolved over the years and posts containing nothing but ad homonyms have become the norm rather than the exception. I find such abrasive natures with never a hint of logical, contemplative thought applied to the issue being discussed boring. For you to think that you are "pushing my button" is hilarious, I don't get excited over the inept use of logical fallacies.


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## speckhunter80 (Oct 3, 2011)

Last word!


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

ReelinRod said:


> I have spent days composing posts but those are ones with many hours of legal research and quite complicated explanations.


I spent a few seconds on my replies - and mine seem to get a better reaction. 

A+ for efficiency! 





> "Pushing buttons" is done by using logic and wit to figuratively disembowel your opponent, not by calling them names.


Everytime I "push a button", something smells like ****. I think I might be doing it right. 




ReelinRod said:


> The tactic of personal attack is the last (non-violent) reaction to imminent defeat that the overmatched turn to. For some, who can't hope to spar in the field of ideas, personal attack is the first arrow out of the quiver and that only signifies the fight was over before it started.


My father taught me that a stupid man fights. A smart man shoots.




ReelinRod said:


> For you to think that you are "pushing my button" is hilarious, I don't get excited over the inept use of logical fallacies.


Clearly!


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## Manlystanley (Sep 22, 2010)

ReelinRod said:


> The best feeling is rolling up on a big school of bass feeding on bunker that is 50 yards out of everybody's range, casting 175 yards and snag-n-dropping a nice one out of that mayhem while 20 guys look on.


Oh man, I would love that... usually I'm the guy who's drooling and looking on....

Best Regards,
Stan


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## Manlystanley (Sep 22, 2010)

solid7 said:


> I spent a few seconds on my replies - and mine seem to get a better reaction.
> 
> A+ for efficiency!


I get a laugh out of your comebacks!!!! I've got to write them down and borrow them sometime.....

Best Regards,
Stan


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## Manlystanley (Sep 22, 2010)

solid7 said:


> MENSA


The only MENSA member that I worked with was absolutely useless. He would argue for days over simple things like: What color paper to use. But, couldn't do anything productive. Eventually, the guy got fired from a firm that desperately needed skilled workers.

Best Regards,
Stan


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## 9 rock (Nov 30, 2008)

Well untill we can settle the hypothetical +- % than it still stands ,,, and even then I would guestion if more distance could be gained in conventional with smaller line,, 
I would also like to know what the results are after a full day of casting,, can u still hit the heavy spinner with the same ease as early in the day , just like base ball , golf, pool. bowling , weight does matter sooner rather than later,, I can only speak from what I see and that is very very rare someone walks up to the point and blows past all the conventionals with spinning gear and I have been going there over 40yrs,, ,, 

In the end yes its personal preferance both have advantages and disavantages,, but I cant remember the last time I was fishing with a spinner and someone walked up and said 
boy I wish I could cast one of those ,, thats what brings them in as much as anything the skill involved in throwing one , I will take convetional caster and hand him a spinning rod and he will have no problams hand 
spinning guys conventional gear and grab ur popcorn ur in for a show


9


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

9 rock said:


> In the end yes its personal preferance both have advantages and disavantages


Yes, I believe that more than anything, as I am in that camp. I just flat out _prefer_ conventional setups. They are mechanically simpler devices, they are (in my opinion) more affordable in the $ to distance ratio over spinners, and there is a certain amount of pride in being able to cast conventional reels, where most people turn their nose up at them. Oh yeah, and I have that shoulder problem, which has made me not even want to attempt a spinning surf caster. 

This subject is similar, I suppose, to driving a stick shift. In fact, I would argue that it's a damn good parallel. 



9 rock said:


> but I cant remember the last time I was fishing with a spinner and someone walked up and said
> boy I wish I could cast one of those


See, now that's another area where preference has advantages... I can't tell you how many times, if I had used spinning gear, that some jacknose would (have) come up to my gear and helped himself, or just taken it upon themself to "show me how it's done". I don't know if this happens to you guys, but I've seen it a number of times - whether it's reeling in a fish, or just grabbing the rod, and asking (halfway through a cast) if they can "try it out". And the beauty of a conventional, is that those kind of people just won't touch a baitcaster. It's like they have kryptonite in them...




9 rock said:


> I will take convetional caster and hand him a spinning rod and he will have no problams hand
> spinning guys conventional gear and grab ur popcorn ur in for a show


You say that like it's a bad thing... I fish alone!

When I fish alone.... duh duh du duuuuhhhh ...I prefer to be by myself!


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

Ya know after about the 50th post all I hear is "Blaaa Blaaa Blaaa Blaaa" I need to go back and find my pic of that dead horse being whuped.

And Mike,,, Yes I can throw 200 yards at night,,, mainly after I been sippen on some good Burbon,, I will let ya swim out and measure it or we can sip on some more Burbon and talk about how much better we cast at night time :beer:


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)




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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Shooter said:


> Ya know after about the 50th post all I hear is "Blaaa Blaaa Blaaa Blaaa" I need to go back and find my pic of that dead horse being whuped.
> 
> And Mike,,, Yes I can throw 200 yards at night,,, mainly after I been sippen on some good Burbon,, I will let ya swim out and measure it or we can sip on some more Burbon and talk about how much better we cast at night time :beer:


Agreed....


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

"And Mike,,, Yes I can throw 200 yards at night,,, mainly after I been sippen on some good Burbon,, I will let ya swim out and measure it or we can sip on some more Burbon and talk about how much better we cast at night time "

Night Air due to differences in molecular ion fusion based humidity ratings (learned that this morning at Mensa) will often get a bait out further than in the daytime which can be problematic especially if you call yourself long and the overwhelming evidence is that you are short and sloppy and smell how shall I say "Skunky" and your cast only goes "Kerplunk" just past the breakers ......instead of a faint ......pffffft....somewhere out of sight...

When I was young and surrounded by a end of a Tee and its narcotic induced hazes I all ways cast further at night and if I started Drinking I kept getting longer and longer until I reached an Ion Vortex of parabolic intensity and started to blow up my Abu's and then had to leave for the bar....

The true measure of how far you are casting at least for them Drum fish is whether or not you are out catching everyone else around you. 

If you are catching instead of watching .........you are at least casting into the right spot.......

I was checking the line capacity for that fancy Silver $880 Daiwa (Checked the price too..) and it was only 260 yards of 16 pound test
and I would be willing to bet no small amount of $$$ that I can throw 8 ounces further with 20SHV which are under $120


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Garboman said:


> Night Air due to differences in molecular ion fusion based humidity ratings (learned that this morning at Mensa) will often get a bait out further than in the daytime


Well, what you got there is a classic case of photon drag... Of course you can cast farther at night... Duh!

Anyone remember midget tossing? I wonder if it's better to toss a mdiget or a dwarf. Hmm...


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Garboman said:


> "And Mike,,, Yes I can throw 200 yards at night,,, mainly after I been sippen on some good Burbon,, I will let ya swim out and measure it or we can sip on some more Burbon and talk about how much better we cast at night time "
> 
> Night Air due to differences in molecular ion fusion based humidity ratings (learned that this morning at Mensa) will often get a bait out further than in the daytime which can be problematic especially if you call yourself long and the overwhelming evidence is that you are short and sloppy and smell how shall I say "Skunky" and your cast only goes "Kerplunk" just past the breakers ......instead of a faint ......pffffft....somewhere out of sight...
> 
> ...


BINGO....all this other stuff is just talk....


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

Much better Rod... LOL 


Go Shimano!


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

Kwesi W. said:


> And what makes you an expert on Casting Spinners Long Distances....????????? POSER!!!!! LMAO LAMO


well i have been known to hit a good one here or there.

for the OP if you are still following this see what you did  to answer your question may i recommend an okuma avenger abf65 retails for 100ish and you can add braid and get very good distance while baitfishing.

now to get in this "debate" i will agree with the following statements
use whatever you are comfortable with.
some guys can cast farther with one reel versus the other(i am one of them)
few if any tournament casters can duplicate their number under fishing conditions. let me run with this one for a second i seem to remember at 2 different fishers casting tournaments the top 3 casters were all using spinning reels and i finished second in the small bait and weight with a cast 692 to gary's 696? also if memory serves me correctly C. Leahy won the big bait and weight 1 year using a baitcaster and was beaten the next year by a spinning reel (Homer?). in 2001 at the regionals i won the 8and bait with a cast of 511 with a spinning reel and 17lb mono, and in 1999 i won the DE championship with a cast of 590ft even thouigh i was a aa caster the 30mph crosswind crippled every baitcaster out there on the last 2 instances. and like i said before i lost 3 national championships and the 1 that still bothers me is everything was perfect the day i hit 758 and i lost to big lou by 7 feet. and after all this i forgot to mention that i use the same gear that i go fishing with so that 758 wasn't with a tricked out reel or a field casting rod it was the same outfit i used to fish in VA beach at a surf fishing tournament and had half the guys in awe because of the distance i was getting casting off the ground. same thing when i went to TX everybody else changed rods and reels while i sat in the parking lot waiting for them.

now for numbers last year while i was testing the black mamba i decided to duplicate fishing conditions so i casted 1-3oz sinkers for max distance and then changed to a fishfinder rig with a 3in piece of gulp nightcrawler and watched the distances drop
1oz 318ft to 287ft
2oz 411ft to 367ft
3oz 453ft to 387ft

since i was planning on using this rod for kingfish and such i know under ideal conditions i can hit 130yd casts. and no matter what comes out of this "debate" this will come up again and again so in defense of reelinrod he loves his spiining reels and feels that anything a baitcaster can do a spinner can too.

and speaking of reelinrod you have to pick a side in the diaweenie vs Shimano reels battle and stick with it and between me an you there is always room for 1 more on the Shimano train


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## 9 rock (Nov 30, 2008)

markedwards said:


> well i have been known to hit a good one here or there.
> 
> for the OP if you are still following this see what you did  to answer your question may i recommend an okuma avenger abf65 retails for 100ish and you can add braid and get very good distance while baitfishing.
> 
> ...


I find this very interesting who were the top conventional guys,, 


9


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## Hooked Up (Feb 6, 2009)

mark was the 590ft cast also a 8nbait cast and if so what type of cast was this........full rotational ground ? or a fishing cast.... i solely ask for my own reasons..thank you


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

9 rock said:


> I find this very interesting who were the top conventional guys,, 9


i think bill halprin jr, conn leahey, and earl blake


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

Hooked Up said:


> mark was the 590ft cast also a 8nbait cast and if so what type of cast was this........full rotational ground ? or a fishing cast.... i solely ask for my own reasons..thank you


it was 511ft but it was a fishing cast they had rules such as the rod and bait had to fit between 2 cones behind the caster. having a 14ft rod and 17lb mono didn't hurt any.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Aw Shooter, you're kiling all the the fun!  Honestly, I've seen several of these guys cast. Saw ReelinRod throw a spinner at a Spring Fling a few years back and his distance murdered everybody else on the beach, including the guys with conventionals. And I've seen a few of the better conventional casters in both a tournament setting and just heaving 8 and a bait that blew my mind. Fact is, most of us will never be able to make those kinds of casts regardless of what we throw. When a good caster buys top-end gear and really learns how to use it, it's awesome to watch.

And now I'm going to go back to my squirrelly short casts and laugh at all y'all when I put fish on the beach because you're throwing too long. Shooter, you remember that trip a few years ago where you brought that cousin of yours out and he did some kind of spastic 30-foot cast and put a nice striper on the beach five minutes later? Or for Clay, when he spent two weeks on the northern OBX chasing drum, only to watch some touron throwing bloodworms in the wash pull out a big drum using a bottom rig? Now that's what I'm talking about. :beer:


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## Hooked Up (Feb 6, 2009)

throwing 8 bait and a rig 511ft with anything is quite impressive


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## 9 rock (Nov 30, 2008)

markedwards said:


> it was 511ft but it was a fishing cast they had rules such as the rod and bait had to fit between 2 cones behind the caster. having a 14ft rod and 17lb mono didn't hurt any.


I can walk into most bars with a pool table grab a broom and wax anyone in the house ,, so I have to believe u can walk on the beach and throw eaither farther,, 
I know reelinrod is a big man whats ur height and weight


9


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Hooked Up said:


> throwing 8 bait and a rig 511ft with anything is quite impressive


indeed it is. but, 170yds is a long way from 200yds.....


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

9 rock said:


> I can walk into most bars with a pool table grab a broom and wax anyone in the house ,, so I have to believe u can walk on the beach and throw eaither farther,,
> I know reelinrod is a big man whats ur height and weight
> 
> 
> 9


now 6'2" 230 then 240-245


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

more about form and practice than being a huge man


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

9 rock said:


> I can walk into most bars with a pool table grab a broom and wax anyone in the house ,, so I have to believe u can walk on the beach and throw eaither farther,,
> I know reelinrod is a big man whats ur height and weight
> 
> 
> 9


guys like you get shot


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## 9 rock (Nov 30, 2008)

surfchunker said:


> guys like you get shot


Guys like me dont hustle in bars


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)




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## 9 rock (Nov 30, 2008)

markedwards said:


> now 6'2" 230 then 240-245


So ur pretty good size ,, I was just looking at some pics from the 2110 world championships and noticed most were good sized guys
I remember a couple of guys from brooklyn bombing spinners I saw the videos and they were tall guys with a huge swing arc I have to believe size and strength does matter to some degree









9


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

2110?! Holy time warp 9 man! Lol


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## dsurf (Aug 5, 2003)

markedwards said:


> 2110?! Holy time warp 9 man! Lol


By 2110 those tall guys will be at least 7' tall and just as round.lol


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

9 rock said:


> Guys like me dont hustle in bars


Just the internet????


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## 9 rock (Nov 30, 2008)

AbuMike said:


> Just the internet????


No dont play in bars anymore,, but seriously I am just trying to find out how much is equiptment and how much is caster and from that does size play a role
I would expect to find out such as in base ball the big guys are the big hitters with a mix of some smaller guys mixed in,,,.. I also would like to know if u have to hit the spinner harder for the same distance as conventional,, 
Aside from general knollage I ask these because I have a real bad left shoulder and I cant pull with a straight left arm and use more right arm ,I back off hitting hard with the right with my conventionals but not my spinning gear but thats with 9ft class I just bought a tica dolphin 8000 for a bigger rod hoping I can cast that out with my conventional stuff for when I am spiking the rod


9


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

tackle does play a good part. i have had or atleast tried most everything on the market and have come to the conclusion that if you have bad casting form the best tackle on the market will only make you the "Best Dressed" caster out there.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

I believe that good form is the most important part of finding out your distance potential. If you have no technique, you have no potential.

However, strength and size play critical roles, also. You cannot deny physics and anatomy. Just like you aren't going to throw a 9' rod tournament casting distances, you aren't going to pitch insane distances lacking certain physical characteristics.

You either need:

A) Strength, and a strong base (core strength)
B) Height and range (long arms and legs = mechanical advantage)

Anyone here can argue all day long, but at the end of the day, if you think a 98 pound weakling is gonna show up and steal the show, I say you are sorely mistaken. Technique is only half of the equation, and your personals are just as important, albeit harder to pin down than good form.

They guy who has the right physics and good technique beats the guy with good technique all day long.


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## Ruedy (Oct 10, 2000)

Technique is the biggest factor I think. The others mentioned by Solid above help out alot too. But, man, watching an experienced "old-timer" casting is almost like watching a graceful ballet, especially say a slow-mo video replay.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

*THREAD

MUST

NOT

DIE!!!*​


AbuMike said:


> I just want to see some of them cast a 7-8oz baited ff rig 600'..200 yards from wash on the sand into the ocean at night while Drum fishing. then you can talk all the smack you want...........Ain't gonna happen though, no matter how much some of you want it.....


Well, I would like to see a drum fisherman cast an Ava27 130 yards during a Jersey sand-eel bite. I would like to see a drum fisherman and his conventional in Mexico where you need to cast big 5oz surface plugs 100+yards, 200 times a day and rip them back in to get a Roosterfish to even look at it. 

I don't "want it" *especially* for 8NBait, it's been at least 10 years since I threw 8NBait and with the state of CHNRS acccess, I doubt I'll bother with it ever again. 

I do however already "own it" for nearly all surf fishing scenarios I encounter and tactics that I utilize where I know which tackle type to grab when I really need to get out there. OTOH, If I'm feeling sentimental and want to fish how Pop-Pop did back in the oldern days then I'll go for the set-up that fills _that_ need.



9 rock said:


> I would also like to know what the results are after a full day of casting,, can u still hit the heavy spinner with the same ease as early in the day


One of my farthest casting set-ups was built just for Jersey surf tournament fishing which required (at least with the team I fished for) 6hrs of hardcore out on the bar for as long as the tide allows, casting 30 -50 times putting a baited hook out past 500ft (and no, not 8NBait).



9 rock said:


> I can only speak from what I see and that is very very rare someone walks up to the point and blows past all the conventionals with spinning gear and I have been going there over 40yrs,, ,,


I think that is a "when in Rome" situation. Come up my way and fish your 8NBait in a sand-eel bite and we will be laughing at you while we be reelin in striper after striper.

You do realize that throwing 8NBait is a *very* small niche in surf casting and that the particular demands of the Point represent an even smaller percentage of how people actually surf fish on the East coast? The relevance of those demands and tactics to people outside the few areas where 8NBait is the norm is, to be kind, limited. 



9 rock said:


> I cant remember the last time I was fishing with a spinner and someone walked up and said boy I wish I could cast one of those thats what brings them in as much as anything the skill involved in throwing one , I will take convetional caster and hand him a spinning rod and he will have no problams hand spinning guys conventional gear and grab ur popcorn ur in for a show


LOL. I am familiar with the sentiment you speak of. 

I have often heard that a surf fisherman is perpetually destined to googanism until one graduates to real fishermanism afforded simply by the shear grace and competence inherent in learning to throw conventional. 

I see it too up here with guys with spinners believe it or not; the Van Staal crowd thinks that simply by having one of those reels on their rod lets everyone know that they are a serious and experienced fisherman to be venerated and honored. 

It happens with all types of fishing, . . . Fly fishermen especially have the Orvis guys who are more concerned with looking like they know what they are doing than actually knowing what they are doing. 

Thanks for confirming that such masturbatory ego stroking happens everywhere but it's not something that I consider when making tackle choices.

In the final anlysis, as someone who _has_ learned to throw conventional and have owned 20 different Abu's, various SLoSH's and SLX's, every permutation of 525MAG except for the UK SuperMag and the best casting fishing reel out now, the 7HTMAG (and I have cast the ST) I honestly believe there is zero reason to waste one's time learning how to cast antiquated (no matter how modern they may be) revolving spool reels. The modern surfcasting spinners available today just blow surf fishing conventional reels out of the water (literally) in the performance categories that matter to 90% of surfcasters. 

Add in their ease of use (which you seem to count as a demerit LOL) and the choice is even clearer. 

opcorn:


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

"You do realize that throwing 8NBait is a very small niche in surf casting and that the particular demands of the Point represent an even smaller percentage of how people actually surf fish on the East coast? The relevance of those demands and tactics to people outside the few areas where 8NBait is the norm is, to be kind, limited. "

Actually there is an even smaller niche of Drum fishing on the OBX planks and the same thirty-forty fellas that have been at it for decades on the few sets of North Carolina planks left like it that it is limited....It was even more limited and dangerous twenty years ago when drinking and adrenalin were more prevalent than grey hair and cell phones....

If you can cast generally you can put up decent numbers of large drum in a tide, more than on the beach. If you can out cast us you must be bad ass, but generally during good Drum bite conditions on the planks you will need to throw 8-10 ounces to hold, so unless you choose Sputnik...you will drift .............and if you drift, at a different rate then the rest of the Tee.........you will have problems tangling and drifting into the regular fellas rigs that are not drifting as fast.....since you will not have a clicker to warn you, you can stand next to your rod and alert me if my clicker goes off..........cause I can't hear it much anymore.....I have eighteen heavers in my garage, none are spinning, I have never seen anyone do much drum fishing with Spinning tackle except watch and maybe net.....I guess I may have to invest in some of these fancy long spool spinners...I would not mind talking trash out the Tee with my trusty spinner.........just ask DD...

Leave your braid in your truck and come on out with your Spinners, most of the fellas on the planks appreciate talent and distance, cause they know the sacrifices they made in order to get there themselves...I don't care about the other 99% only the 1% er Drum plankers from Rodanthe...and to me the antiquated wrrrrrrrrr of a Abu 7000 on a Surf Stick that you loaded all the way on its way outbound a reel that I have cast thousands of times since 1985 is part of my inner self, as well as the jerky grab/release/grabbing eeeeh........eeeeh..eeeeeeeh of Abu drag washers laboring and slipping under the pull of a large Red Drum........well that is a symphony for my soul......and anyone who cares to make light of that must be a Dick...


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

ReelinRod said:


> *THREAD
> 
> MUST
> 
> ...


*Oh good, you're back! *


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## terpfan (May 30, 2002)

I think in most fishing conditions good spinner with braid will outcast conventional, except in north carolina. Also, out of all the poster who contributed to this thread, mark edwards is probably best caster, but it seems that his opinion does not matter to most here.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

This thread alone is worth my $20 supporter cost. Warm winter, fish been biting all winter but yet the members of this forum still come up with a serious case of man o pause for my reading enjoyment...:beer:


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## 9 rock (Nov 30, 2008)

ReelinRod said:


> *THREAD
> 
> MUST
> 
> ...


Well when catching a over 40 striper becomes a challange to me I will head on up. I guess u were not satisfied when u sent ur stuff down to tommy and he shot that bird clean out of the sky 

If ur outcasting coventionals u are the exception not the norm and their is a reason why spinners cost so much more than convetionals and that's because they are flawed by design in the first place. Why do u think u need a reel with 30 lbs of drage to pull in the same fish a conventional with 12lbs of drag will pull in

9


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

I did want to add that a conventional heaver is good during the summer also from the planks as either an Anchor rod (further out your anchor is the more adjustable the distance from the pier for your bait, along with the lessened likelihood that the anchor will slip) My anchors were 8-9 ounces of lead and four 16 penny nails, so a light rig need not apply. The first time at the age of 11 that I walked out on Kitty Hawk pier and saw a fella bomb out a large bait rig with a Red 9000 and a one piece rod that meant business, I knew I had wandered into another realm of fishing than what was written on the pages of Field and Stream....

We also used heavers for slide or float rigs for Cobia and King Mackeral and one would throw out a ten ounce pyramid sinker to keep the rig from drifting and tangling, once again spinners were at a disadvantage. No Clicker would make you have to watch your rod tip/line all day long instead of enjoying the summer scenery or taking a nap in the shade under your rod waiting for it to start smokin....

One day I would like to try the NE Stripers and I would certainly need to adjust my tackle a bit, but I am pretty sure I would not embarrass myself casting a plug, I have pretty decent form for an old guy....I am not sure who is the baddest caster on this thread since I do not know/or fished with the fellas posting, but I will say everything I ever learned from casting was taught to me by someone else, so I am open to new information and equipment. I do know the baddest casters on the OBX though and they are still throwing these obsolete technology conventional reels further than the rest who show up from parts unknown come October....


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## terpfan (May 30, 2002)

For me, reason I use spinner with braid is for distance and sensitivity. For many of us, we are not blessed with obx. The closest decent fishing spot requires 125+ yard cast for dramatic increase catching fish. With nylon, bite detection is almost none. Once I caught a 20" croaker without realizing that fish was on.


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## jlentz (Sep 11, 2005)

ReelinRod said:


> Well, I would like to see a drum fisherman cast an Ava27 130 yards during a Jersey sand-eel bite. I would like to see a drum fisherman and his conventional in Mexico where you need to cast big 5oz surface plugs 100+yards, 200 times a day and rip them back in to get a Roosterfish to even look at it.
> 
> 
> I think that is a "when in Rome" situation. Come up my way and fish your 8NBait in a sand-eel bite and we will be laughing at you while we be reelin in striper after striper.
> ...


Let me get this straight. This site is mainly used by fisherman on East coast of the U.S. and you are saying in this context that 8NBait is a small niche in surf casting? Well than what exactly is casting a specific lure, in your example the Ava27, to a fish feeding on a specific bait again from your example sand-eels? That is a much smaller niche than the 8NBait as is your other example of casting 5oz plugs for Roosters in Mexico. And if you are wondering, years ago I measured my cast using an Ava27 with an average cast well over 130yrds using an Abu 6500. I have fished pretty much every state along the Eastern seaboard and throwing 8Nbait works in every state I have tried from Maine to FL for many species of fish. 

I know that spinning reels are much easier to cast further for most people and you and your set-ups do get great distances. Spinners have their place for many people but for me and others in real world fishing situations conventional reels are superior in most circumstances. Proponents of spinning reels argue that if braid were allowed in casting competitions than the spinners would reign supreme. They follow it up by saying that they are using their normal fishing set-ups on the tournament field and therefore spinning reels must cast better in real world fishing situations. That is fine and dandy for them and may work in their limited fishing situations but there are many other situations were those set-ups do not cut it. Some examples that I can give from personal experience are fishing in and around structure such as bridges, rocks, pilings, sandbars, and piers. All of these structures are abrasive and not braid friendly. Suddenly the "fishing combo" that you cast on the tournament field is just as unfishable as the supertuned conventional reels that you competed against. Now put on the heavier mono needed to stand up to this abrasion and lets see what happens to your distance with your spinning set up. Lets see how far that spinner throws when you put 30lb mono on it to hold up to the bridge pilings that you are trying to keep your fish out of in the 7 knot current. To use your words, the previous example is a very small niche of surf fishing but one that fisherman may encounter. For me, since I use conventional 99% of the time it is no adjustment needed for the changing situation when I have to throw a conventional with heavy mono. 

Basically as has been said many times in this thread that it comes down to personal preference. From my experience being able to cast a conventional in many situations gives me the benefit of versatility. When situations arise where I need heavy mono, large weights and bait, or am casting in the dark I am comfortable and confident using conventional because that is what I use 99% of the time. I think that being proficient with conventional reels as well as spinning reels makes one a better fisherman. I think that it is well worth it to learn and use conventional reels so when the need arises the fisherman can be comfortable using them. 

John


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

terpfan said:


> For me, reason I use spinner with braid is for distance and sensitivity. For many of us, we are not blessed with obx. The closest decent fishing spot requires 125+ yard cast for dramatic increase catching fish. With nylon, bite detection is almost none. Once I caught a 20" croaker without realizing that fish was on.


In fairness, spot and croaker tend to be some of the laziest biters out there. That's not uncommon...


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

terpfan said:


> I think in most fishing conditions good spinner with braid will outcast conventional, except in north carolina.


This post is awesome in every way.


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## terpfan (May 30, 2002)

The reason I sais that is not to dis obx fisherman. You should not fish with braid and sputnik in crowded cape point. You will be blamed for every tangle. It's a tradition.


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## terpfan (May 30, 2002)

However most of my friends use conventional reel. They do it for the wow factors.


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## Macman (Dec 27, 1999)

Wow! Wow! Wow! Been away for ten years, only to return and find the same old debate...again...LOL!!! It does make for some great reading! I'm going fishing this weekend fellas, "tight lines" to us all!:beer:


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

Cdog said:


> This thread alone is worth my $20 supporter cost. Warm winter, fish been biting all winter but yet the members of this forum still come up with a serious case of man o pause for my reading enjoyment...:beer:


Indeed. Thread of the year...........


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

I miss the Skunk King. He would have helped this thread immensely.


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## Manlystanley (Sep 22, 2010)

markedwards said:


> now for numbers last year while i was testing the black mamba i decided to duplicate fishing conditions so i casted 1-3oz sinkers for max distance and then changed to a fishfinder rig with a 3in piece of gulp nightcrawler and watched the distances drop
> 1oz 318ft to 287ft
> 2oz 411ft to 367ft
> 3oz 453ft to 387ft


Nice Numbers....... A lot better then mine.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

This thread seems to be loosing steam with the Spinner fellas running out of valid reasons to spend $900 on a single reel that does not say Penn International 80W on the gold side plate.

I can switch sides if there is an interest and challenge some of these conventional pros to a "Skunkdown"

I will use my trusty Spinner EmblemX with 30 pound braid mounted on a 1507 and I will use a 150 grain competition sinker (I will tape on a large Spinner guide to make up for the smaller conventional guides currently on rod) I will use some type of pendulum cast and leather glove so I do not amputate my forefinger casting.

My competition of course will all be using conventional reel/ heaver with 8 ounce sinker (preferably that aerodynamic Frog tongue model) and you can throw ten ounces if that will make you feel like more of a man.....


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## Manlystanley (Sep 22, 2010)

terpfan said:


> For me, reason I use spinner with braid is for distance and sensitivity. For many of us, we are not blessed with obx. The closest decent fishing spot requires 125+ yard cast for dramatic increase catching fish. With nylon, bite detection is almost none. Once I caught a 20" croaker without realizing that fish was on.


Agree about the longer cast requirements. The bay just slops out real slow, while OBX drops off real fast. My optimum cast is 100 yards. Got to increase my range. I just switched to braid. I'm anxious to try it out.

Best Regards,
Stan


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

Garboman said:


> This thread seems to be loosing steam with the Spinner fellas running out of valid reasons to spend $900 on a single reel that does not say Penn International 80W on the gold side plate.


I would never spend that much on a reel, and I'm pretty sure there was only one "spinner fella" in here that did.

I only have one valid reason for using spinning gear, and it's outlined explicitly in my first post in this thread. However, if it will help make the thread more entertaining, I'd be willing to come up with some outlandish casting distance claims and/or irrational put-downs.


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## Manlystanley (Sep 22, 2010)

Garboman said:


> you can throw ten ounces if that will make you feel like more of a man.....


You betcha it does!!! 

I use the gym 3 times a week and do a wimpy 1 hour work out. However, once I took a class at the Quantico Marine Base in Va. While there, I worked out with the 'Marines' (in there gorgeous new gym) for all five days of my class. I just couldn't help myself. I came out of that place (after having done my regular wimpy workout) feeling like a real man. Good Lord those marines are serious about physical condition. It's gobs of fun just to be around them.

So, just being around these people made my testosterone level raise... Just like hurling a tire iron sized sinker... 


Best regards, 
Stan


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

solid7 said:


> I miss the Skunk King. He would have helped this thread immensely.


best statement of the whole thread.....


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## Mark H. (Nov 26, 2005)

WWBBD............


what would Buxton Bunny do?


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## 9 rock (Nov 30, 2008)

Garboman said:


> This thread seems to be loosing steam with the Spinner fellas running out of valid reasons to spend $900 on a single reel that does not say Penn International 80W on the gold side plate.
> 
> I can switch sides if there is an interest and challenge some of these conventional pros to a "Skunkdown"
> 
> ...


Trust me they are like cock roaches thier lurking in the dark but they will be back before long thier just planning thier attack


9


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## tjbjornsen (Oct 31, 2009)

Originally Posted by solid7 
I miss the Skunk King. He would have helped this thread immensely.


AbuMike said:


> best statement of the whole thread.....


I miss Beefstick Boy too!


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## smacks fanatic (Oct 16, 2010)

tjbjornsen said:


> Originally Posted by solid7
> I miss the Skunk King. He would have helped this thread immensely.
> 
> 
> I miss Beefstick Boy too!


Skunk? wasnt he the guy who claimed he could cast 300 yards? And that he caught more drum than everybody? Haha he was funny.


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

I'm still trying to perfect my bucket handle knot.


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

i'm a spinning reel fan and i'm still here. i'm not trying to get into a name calling contest or anything like that but i do think these debates are fun. i have to sit some of them out or you'll get burned out.

lol beefstick boy- the one that came on last year fishing PLO, getting a couple of croaker, bought his rod and after guys giving him their opinion of it he started cursing at people? and needing advice on tying off his bucket? i think he's still around but he changed his name after his meltdown.


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

Wow...I smelt the the testosterone thru the monitor. Spinner vs. conventionals, braid vs. mono, pro vs. touron, planks vs. sand, drum vs. striper. Just went thru 6 pages and what did I learn?......I will keep reading the beach and cast my lure or bait to the fish. Fish with what your comfortable with. spinners and conventionals have their place. The bays and oceans are warming up. The stripers are returning, the drum are right behind them. Cabin fever is over!


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

p.s. i have enough trouble justifying 240 dollar reels so i'm not even gonna entertain 900 dollars and did or have god bless you.


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

Hey Al,,, ya ever feel as if your tring to herd cats??


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

Shooter said:


> Hey Al,,, ya ever feel as if your tring to heard cats??


Meow? this was an entertaining post. Its not like the movie my wife wanted to watch was any good...lol. Oh how I miss the spinner vs. conventional debates/ discussions/ myths/ theories/ conceptions/ misconceptions....meow. I like where Mark is heading. I wont feel so bad in investing in a $500.00 tuna jigging reel. It does not cost as much as a $900.00 surf reel.


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

point for spinning reels- the handle is reverseable try that on your fancy baitcasters  now every now and then you have somebody that wants the best of both worlds and they use a spinning reel turned upside down and reel in backwards.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

Garboman said:


> Actually there is an even smaller niche of Drum fishing on the OBX planks and the same thirty-forty fellas that have been at it for decades on the few sets of North Carolina planks left . . .


Sounds like a sealed time capsule. 



Garboman said:


> I guess I may have to invest in some of these fancy long spool spinners...I would not mind talking trash out the Tee with my trusty spinner.........just ask DD...


Well, my “trash talk” is a product of familiarity with the top shelf of both tackle types.



Garboman said:


> Leave your braid in your truck and come on out with your Spinners,


I am perfectly capable of fitting into a “when in Rome” situation with either tackle type.



Garboman said:


> I don't care about the other 99% only the 1% er Drum plankers from Rodanthe...and to me the antiquated wrrrrrrrrr of a Abu 7000 on a Surf Stick that you loaded all the way on its way outbound a reel that I have cast thousands of times since 1985 is part of my inner self,


Look, I get the allure of conventionals, I "feel" it too when a good cast is going out and I also love standing on a jetty on a Moonless night feeling a panicked bunker under my thumb . . . BUT I'm not blind to the tackle's deficiencies and I sure won't gloss over the significant learning curve / time investment that one needs to commit to, to achieve above average performance from revolving spools. 

In the final analysis I just cannot argue with what I have experienced in the last 25+ years of refining the best performing surf fishing tackle (conventional and spinning). Now, it just seems pointless to try to squeeze better performance from even the most advanced revolving spools because it has been reduced to a question of, "for what?"



terpfan said:


> I think in most fishing conditions good spinner with braid will outcast conventional, except in north carolina.


LOL, true dat!



terpfan said:


> out of all the poster who contributed to this thread, mark edwards is probably best caster, but it seems that his opinion does not matter to most here.


True dat X2



9 rock said:


> If ur outcasting coventionals u are the exception not the norm and their is a reason why spinners cost so much more than convetionals and that's because they are flawed by design in the first place. Why do u think u need a reel with 30 lbs of drage to pull in the same fish a conventional with 12lbs of drag will pull in


Don't you ever get tired of being wrong? What would a couple hundred pound Bluefin Tuna do to an Abu or SLoSH LOL?

Jeez, I bent the shaft of a 6500 pulling in a clump of weed in strong inlet current.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

jlentz said:


> Let me get this straight. This site is mainly used by fisherman on East coast of the U.S. and you are saying in this context that 8NBait is a small niche in surf casting?


Well yeah, as a primary tactic it is localized on the OBX and the Southern parts of the DelMarVa peninsula. It skips Jersey and pokes up on the South Shore of Long Island primarily around the inlets with guys fishing old 156 and even 168 Lamis with big 400 series Newells fishing big bunker chunks. 

North of Jersey it is predominately lure fishing and South of OBX, out of the Drum runs, lighter tackle is the norm right down and around into the Gulf. You could say that it picks back up in the Western Gulf where sharking and big Reds run. So yeah, it is of limited range and use. Granted, among the guys who do it, it might be all they do or see done but that doesn't make it a popular tactic "everywhere". 



jlentz said:


> Well than what exactly is casting a specific lure, in your example the Ava27, to a fish feeding on a specific bait again from your example sand-eels?


Well, that's a month out of our season; mid November into December usually. Right now it is swimming plugs and bottom fishing with bloodworms. Mid May the bunker show up and it is snag-n-drop and pencil popping. June is clamming then scraping calico crabs which produce into July. Late July into Sept is the doldrums on the beach (except for flounder) which forces striper guys to go in the back on the sodbanks and turn to light tackle and envy the guy in the kayak. Early Fall hopefully brings the Bunker and Mullet through and swimming lures from finger sized to foot long monsters are used. Then it's sand eels again!



jlentz said:


> And if you are wondering, years ago I measured my cast using an Ava27 with an average cast well over 130yrds using an Abu 6500.


That's very good. I doubt I could match that with any consistency, certainly I wouldn't even try on a crowded beach because blowing up and picking a backlash out would just be a disaster for the guys down current from me. You guys must appreciate that given Garboman's constant concern for drifting and tangling your neighbor.

Epic Joisey sand-eel bite last November; people came from all over . . . 










Photo credit my friend Tom Lynch *Angryfish.tv*



jlentz said:


> Basically as has been said many times in this thread that it comes down to personal preference.


And I have not once made a blanket statement saying that spinners should be the preferred tackle for everyone or for every style / tactic of surf fishing. I only posted to rebut a blanket statement: 

_"A good conventional with a well trained thumb and a little time will out cast any spinner all the time."​_
Which is absolutely incorrect on multiple accounts.

My reply brought in another infamous blanket statement:

_"in the hands of a skilled individual a conventional will and does outcast spinning reels."​_
And then another, even more ridiculous blanket statement:

_"bottom line is conventionals do cast farther at the end of the day with any line u choose on a spinner"​_
Not one person has addressed my point of the average 7% difference in casting tournaments and what they think a conventional FISHING set-up looses to a tourney casting set-up . . . 



jlentz said:


> I think that being proficient with conventional reels as well as spinning reels makes one a better fisherman. I think that it is well worth it to learn and use conventional reels so when the need arises the fisherman can be comfortable using them.


Thanks for the compliment!


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

Garboman said:


> This thread seems to be loosing steam with the Spinner fellas running out of valid reasons to spend $900 on a single reel that does not say Penn International 80W on the gold side plate.


Funny you say that because that's the size of conventional reel you would need to buy to match the strength of one of those spinners.



Garboman said:


> I can switch sides if there is an interest and challenge some of these conventional pros to a "Skunkdown"


I can promise switching isn't as easy as you think (at least where you are talking about 650+ft w/5oz with fishing gear).



Garboman said:


> (I will tape on a large Spinner guide to make up for the smaller conventional guides currently on rod) I will use some type of pendulum cast and leather glove so I do not amputate my forefinger casting.


There's that 1980's thinking again. No more big guides for spinners. My best performing set-ups have 20mm collector guides (Lowriders). I even use Lowrider rung rod with mono in casting tourneys . . . 
I have never used a pendulum cast.
No glove, just a couple wraps of athletic tape and you should be fine.



Garboman said:


> My competition of course will all be using conventional reel/ heaver with 8 ounce sinker (preferably that aerodynamic Frog tongue model) and you can throw ten ounces if that will make you feel like more of a man.....


I'm getting the sense that ego boost is a very important part of this conventional 8or10NBait thing.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

dudeondacouch said:


> I would never spend that much on a reel, and I'm pretty sure there was only one "spinner fella" in here that did.


I said that the reel sells for that -now- which is twice what I spent in -2003- when the reel first came out.

That was and remains the most I have spent on a single reel and the fact that I could sell it now for more than I paid for it kinda sorta makes me smile. 



dudeondacouch said:


> if it will help make the thread more entertaining, I'd be willing to come up with some outlandish casting distance claims and/or irrational put-downs.


Then you would be acting like the conventional crew. Don't be so tough on solid7, he has behaved himself for the past couple pages, no cursing or calling me insane . . . 



9 rock said:


> Trust me they are like cock roaches thier lurking in the dark but they will be back before long thier just planning thier attack


But it seems we have a new contender . . .

Classy


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a new record for most consecutive quotes. 

19. Unreal.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

dudeondacouch said:


> Ladies and gentlemen, we have a new record for most consecutive quotes.
> 
> 19. Unreal.


There is never any confusion as to what I am replying to.

That what's noticed is how many statements I replied to instaed of the replies themselves says something . . . I think . . . 

Does it say anything?????


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## Manlystanley (Sep 22, 2010)

dudeondacouch said:


> Ladies and gentlemen, we have a new record for most consecutive quotes.



Yeee Haaa!!! And to think I was here to see it!! Maybe I should get a T-Shirt made with that saying? Kind of like those bummer stickers that said: "I climbed...."

Best Regards,
Stan


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## 9 rock (Nov 30, 2008)

> But it seems we have a new contender . . .


Classy


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## 9 rock (Nov 30, 2008)

> I can promise switching isn't as easy as you think (at least where you are talking about 650+ft w/5oz with fishing gear).


 well since ur argument is spinners are easier it would be fair to say if u can hit those #s with a conventional it should be no problam for
a spinner, especially since 99% of all fisherman learned on a spinner first



> Don't you ever get tired of being wrong? What would a couple hundred pound Bluefin Tuna do to an Abu or SLoSH LOL?
> 
> Jeez, I bent the shaft of a 6500 pulling in a clump of weed in strong inlet current


.

Who said anything about abu slosh,, avet, progear, , bend one of those and get back to me



> Not one person has addressed my point of the average 7% difference in casting tournaments and what they think a conventional FISHING set-up looses to a tourney casting set-up . .,,


That data is inconclusive and it leads to more questions than answers such as does it take a harder hit to achieve those distances and effectively lose more distance as weight goes up compared to a convetional
Does turny line diameter offer the best casting distances for all weights thrown by a conventional,, do we have record of any cast with braid on a spinner close to big dannys record,, just asking!



> Epic Joisey sand-eel bite last November; people came from all over .


I fished with the rail birds and jetty cockys durring the run last ur in delaware maybe the best of all time and its a good thing it was a stripper run because if it was a drum run u would spend more time detagleing lines than fishing it was bad enough as it was with all that braid in the water

Originally Posted by 9 rock 
Trust me they are like cock roaches thier lurking in the dark but they will be back before long thier just planning thier attack


> But it seems we have a new contender . . .


Ah as predictable as the sunrise 




> Classy


I consider the source

My next discusion with u will be on what a well armed militia is



9


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## rabbitdog2 (Aug 20, 2011)

144 Post and no conclusion. If the original intent was to create a pissing match GREAT JOB. If it was serious the guy is so confused he'll
probably end up buying a Zebco 202. Just select 3 or 4 reels you like the looks of (in the $150 range) and do the research on those. In the end what good is gaining an extra 5 - 10 yrds, if you don't like using that reel. You are the only one that can make that determination. It' going to be based on your ability, not what someone else likes.


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## HuskyMD (May 19, 2000)

I, as a non-pro, non-pissing conventional setup user choose the conventionals because I throw perfectly straight just about every time with a conventional. With a spinner, if using more than about 3 ounces, I lose the ability to cast it perfectly straight out. Clearly it's something I'm doing wrong. That said, if night fishing and not on a pier with lights, I usually use spinners.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

HuskyMD said:


> I, as a non-pro, non-pissing conventional setup user choose the conventionals because I throw perfectly straight just about every time with a conventional. With a spinner, if using more than about 3 ounces, I lose the ability to cast it perfectly straight out. Clearly it's something I'm doing wrong. That said, if night fishing and not on a pier with lights, I usually use spinners.


That was a beautifully crafted response, and I couldn't agree more. I am in exactly the same boat that you are in.

If I'm in my kayak, I'll take both setups, just because. Sometimes it's easier to throw one or the other, for varying reasons. For surf fishing, I am 100% exclusively conventional, because quite frankly, that's just what I like, goddammit. 

I would challenge anyone to be to any more intellectually honest than that.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

rabbitdog2 said:


> 144 Post and no conclusion. If the original intent was to create a pissing match GREAT JOB.


That was my initial position when I got crossways of Rod and the gang. But hey, the thread is long since blown. Might as well treat it like what it is, now.



ReelinRod said:


> Don't be so tough on solid7, he has behaved himself for the past couple pages, no cursing or calling me insane . . .


Hey, **** you, I totally think you are insane.


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## 9 rock (Nov 30, 2008)

rabbitdog2 said:


> 144 Post and no conclusion. If the original intent was to create a pissing match GREAT JOB. If it was serious the guy is so confused he'll
> probably end up buying a Zebco 202. Just select 3 or 4 reels you like the looks of (in the $150 range) and do the research on those. In the end what good is gaining an extra 5 - 10 yrds, if you don't like using that reel. You are the only one that can make that determination. It' going to be based on your ability, not what someone else likes.


Well certainly no one with any sence would take this stuff seriously but to the contrary much can be learned if u are deciding one way or another because at the end of the day its preferance for the particalar person on the type of fishing he is doing,,, many times the fish are inside what top casts are for eaither sometimes the stretch of mono is better than the lack of in braid , sometimes braid offers better detection and better hook up rate
so their are many factors to pay attention too if u dont know .. 

I fish both as needed


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Quote Originally Posted by Garboman View Post

Actually there is an even smaller niche of Drum fishing on the OBX planks and the same thirty-forty fellas that have been at it for decades on the few sets of North Carolina planks left . . .

Sounds like a sealed time capsule. 

It is a "sealed time capsule" and that experience and those good people who participated in OBX Pier fishing for Drum and Kings for the last forty years whether they are still with us fishing or have passed will always be close to my heart. 

You come across as the type of fella/Pilgrim who comes out to the end of the Tee and encounters all kinds of problems with the locals

Please post another "Epic Sand Eel Bite" picture that actually has someone bowed up to a fish, instead of people standing around looking sheepish and disoriented




Thanks
Garbo


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## terpfan (May 30, 2002)

What's wrong with buying a $900 reel if you can afford it??? You can spend $3000 worth of fishing gear and only thing you have to do to offset that cost is slight downgrade in your new car purchase. Why do some people envy others with a nice car, but thinks it's insane to own a $900 reel?


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## HuskyMD (May 19, 2000)

I cannot say why, but I definitely think it's insane to own a $900 fishing reel. Although, I also think it's insane to spend more than $30K on a car. I guess I'm just broke.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

HuskyMD said:


> I cannot say why, but I definitely think it's insane to own a $900 fishing reel. Although, I also think it's insane to spend more than $30K on a car. I guess I'm just broke.


It's only insane when you do it, and you can't AFFORD to do it.

It's insane NOT to spend that kind of money, when you have MORE THAN ENOUGH to do so.

Millionaires don't live in the ghetto, right?


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## HuskyMD (May 19, 2000)

solid7 said:


> It's only insane when you do it, and you can't AFFORD to do it.
> 
> It's insane NOT to spend that kind of money, when you have MORE THAN to do so.
> 
> Millionaires don't live in the ghetto, right?


I can buy that.


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## terpfan (May 30, 2002)

solid7 said:


> It's only insane when you do it, and you can't AFFORD to do it.
> 
> It's insane NOT to spend that kind of money, when you have MORE THAN ENOUGH to do so.
> 
> Millionaires don't live in the ghetto, right?




Although there are plenty of nice cars in the ghetto. Everyone has a budget, some small some large. For me, whenever I buy something, I want things that last and don't need constant upgrade.


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## smacks fanatic (Oct 16, 2010)

ReelinRod said:


> Epic Joisey sand-eel bite last November; people came from all over . . .
> 
> 
> 
> ...


man alive...Thats more people than you can expect at the point!(I did make it to the point this year at the end of october)


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

Garbo,,,, tisk tisk tisk,, you aint got it all figured out by now???? It's so simple,,,, It's a yankie thing


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## 7.62 (Apr 15, 2011)

So where are the recommendations per the OP's request, within his price range?

Rod - You have contributed quite a lot in favor of spinning setups, but have you given a recommendation to the OP?

What I am hearing here (trying to be objective), is that, yes, a spinning outfit can match (or beat…whatever…I don’t care) a conventional setup for distance, but it seems to be at a high price. Is there a $300 spinning outfit ($150 reel/$150 rod) that can match the performance of conventional gear in that price range?


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

terpfan said:


> Although there are plenty of nice cars in the ghetto.


Pretty sure I already addressed that point...


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## 9 rock (Nov 30, 2008)

yes BPS OM and diawa emblem pro A ,, pretty good bang for the buck


9


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

7.62 said:


> So where are the recommendations per the OP's request, within his price range?
> 
> Rod - You have contributed quite a lot in favor of spinning setups, but have you given a recommendation to the OP?
> 
> What I am hearing here (trying to be objective), is that, yes, a spinning outfit can match (or beat…whatever…I don’t care) a conventional setup for distance, but it seems to be at a high price. Is there a $300 spinning outfit ($150 reel/$150 rod) that can match the performance of conventional gear in that price range?


i answered him somewhere back in the 90ish posts but the poor guy got so rattled he's over in the distance casting board asking how to get more distance with his baitcaster.
now to answer your question i said it back then and i'll say it now i suggest an okuma avenger abf65 and a 12ft okuma solaris retails for a total of 180 dollars so you can use that extra money to get 300yds of 20lb braid for another 30-45 dollars. hope that answers your question.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

Garboman said:


> You come across as the type of fella/Pilgrim who comes out to the end of the Tee and encounters all kinds of problems with the locals


No, in fact my experience (and my acceptance that I lack experience in some things) permits me to fit in well with any crew. I have only participated in the fishing you describe less than a dozen times (prefer the beach) and as such it would be a learning experience for me. I am comfortable with my own abilities (both what I can and can't do) and certainly wouldn't walk out to the end of the Tee, claim a spot and tell others how to fish. I haven't told anyone here that my way is the best or only way; all I've done is refute the blanket statements that:


"bottom line is conventionals do cast farther at the end of the day with any line u choose on a spinner"
and

"A good conventional with a well trained thumb and a little time will out cast any spinner all the time."

When I questioned those statements I received the responses to be expected from those incapable of defending those beliefs in a civilized manner. I will not apologize for others behaving like spoiled brats nor will I be at all concerned that you see me as "the type of fella/Pilgrim who comes out to the end of the Tee and encounters all kinds of problems with the locals" just because when the locals act like ***holes, I don't back down. 



Garboman said:


> Please post another "Epic Sand Eel Bite" picture that actually has someone bowed up to a fish, instead of people standing around looking sheepish and disoriented


That picture was taken a few hours after the melee, the tide was up, everybody was forced off the bars and action was sporadic. 

Here's a nice shot from Thursday of the action that was typical (first picture was the following Saturday after the word was out!):










And a good one from the Spring with big stripers having the bunker pushed up into the pocket of a jetty:










Here's what it looks like in real time. Jezz, this gets my blood going . . . Can't wait for weeks of Run and Gun bunker chasing madnes!








7.62 said:


> So where are the recommendations per the OP's request, within his price range?
> 
> Rod - You have contributed quite a lot in favor of spinning setups, but have you given a recommendation to the OP?


I discussed the reel that others had suggested and explained its excellent casting properties back in post 36.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Thanks for the updated Striper Jersey bite photos 

That looks like fun

The few time I have been around Stripers on either the North Beach or the Point I fished with a 6500 and a popping rod casting plugs. Caught a lot of Stripers off of boats off NC and in the Chesapeake but a shore bite in NC since 2004 or so has been non existent. I have never fished New England, but I have been on the end of the Tee with 10 Drum hooked up at one time and at the Point with over 100 hooked up at once. All ten were decked on that pier, perhaps 15 out the 100 were beached at the point due to tangles and break offs..but that day at the point had well over 200 citation sized drum beached and released..that was in 2002 May

Mostly when I use spinning tackle it is light tackle and trout and bluefish with lures, I will put that emblemx of mine on a 1507 and see what it will do with a 1509 butt and 5 oz


Garbo


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

9 rock said:


> well since ur argument is spinners are easier it would be fair to say if u can hit those #s with a conventional it should be no problam for a spinner, especially since 99% of all fisherman learned on a spinner first


You can believe what you want but the casting styles are different. You have no difficulty creating all manner of hypotheticals but refuse to entertain my questions based in real numbers of accomplished casters of both tackle types. That’s amusing just as an example of the futility of reasoned debate here, proof that you really have nothing to say of any consequence.



9 rock said:


> Who said anything about abu slosh,, avet, progear, , bend one of those and get back to me


Are those goalposts heavy? 
You sure do move them a lot! 

Data is inconclusive? It is simple averages with 4 casters being within 3% of each other in difference between the two tackle types. 



9 rock said:


> Does turny line diameter offer the best casting distances for all weights thrown by a conventional,,


Well, for the point I was trying to make the line diameter is of great interest. The line diameter (.35mm, the old UKSF standard) used in the examples offered by Neil Mackellow brings the conventional number closer to a “fishing” distance (.35mm is close to 16-17lb test) and makes the comparison even more applicable to a “fishing” application. 

Of course that thick line would negatively impact the spinner numbers even more. 

Add to the mix the advancement of design and engineering of distance spinning reels since 1982 (2 years before the ground-breaking long spool Daiwa Tournament Whisker SS9000 was introduced) and my position only becomes stronger and more immune from _“I herd from da old-timerz onda pier dat demm spinnerz dernt cast gud”_. 



9 rock said:


> do we have record of any cast with braid on a spinner close to big dannys record,, just asking!


Well, conventional Danny vs spinner Danny is interesting.

His percentage difference for each weight from conventional to spinner:

50gr on .25mm – 209m vs 192m = -8%
75gr on .25mm – 220m vs 229m = +4%
100gr on .25mm – 262m vs 259m = -1%
125gm on .28mm – 274m vs 257m = -7%
150gm on .31mm – 279m vs 256m = -9%

So, I remain firmly in support of my original theory that an engineered for distance spinner going to braid and realizing a 5% - 7% INCREASE in distance can easily overcome / outpace / beat a fishing appropriate conventional (with my argument that going to fishing appropriate gear COSTS the conventional guy 10% - 20% from his better tourney distances.



9 rock said:


> Ah as predictable as the sunrise


No, me making an ad homonym comment is *not* predictable. 

Out of all the personal attacks you guys threw out, that one (cockroach) was the most offensive to me. Really a despicable connotation absolutely not warranted by the discussion (and that it included Mark makes it all the more unacceptable). I felt at that point you took the lead role of useless and mean personal insult from solid7 (which he has taken back with extra style points). 



9 rock said:


> I consider the source


I have tried to keep my contributions here clean and directed at addressing rebutting specific points that are exact quotes from posts in this thread. Can you say the same?



9 rock said:


> My next discusion with u will be on what a well armed militia is


I welcome it. The Lounge is a couple rooms down . . . Start a thread superstar.


So let's recap.

In this thread I have been called a “_Richard head_”, a “_thread hijacker_” and told that I just want to “_prove how smart_“ I am and I’ve had my “_Bull**** reply snipped_” and was told that I should “_Take your meds_” and “_go away_” that I “_overestimate one's own abilities, talents, stature or situation_” and thus suffer from “delusions of grandeur” and only demonstrate “_pride and hostility_” and that "_I like to argue, and use multi-syllabic words while doing so_" and I’m a “_narcissist_” and I should join “_MENSA_” while being a “_fool_” and being told that it is easy to “_imagine you popping a cork, and spending the better part of a day climbing ego hill, to craft your pompous replies_” and going “_ballistic_”, that when my button gets pushed “_something smells like ****_”, that I (and apparently Mark Edwards) are “_cock roaches . . . lurking in the dark_” and last but certainly not least . . . solid7 coming back, with raging boorishness on display . . . drum roll please . . . 

“_*Hey, **** you, I totally think you are insane*_.”

While such unimaginative, ignorant and downright mean-spirited BS is funny because it is so pathetic, it does get boring because such idiotic dialog is the product of a mind with nothing intelligent to say . . . and you can only tolerate that for so long LOL.

It seems the consensus here is that the thread is blown and deserves to be treated as such (in the assessment of the guy who has thrown more insults and contributed less on topic substance to it than anyone LOL) . . . 

IMNSHO there’s plenty in this thread to discuss and plenty of opportunity for conventional guys to demonstrate some ability to think on a level that’s above a thumbs in your overalls stereotype reinforcing fashion














. 

Until that happens there’s really no reason to suffer the indignity of conversing any further with y’all. 

Y’all go enjoy yourselves now and keep on believing (and mindlessly parroting) the fishin fables others have told you. 



Buh-Bye (till next time)


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

ReelinRod said:


> “_*Hey, **** you, I totally think you are insane*_.”
> 
> While such unimaginative, ignorant and downright mean-spirited BS is funny because it is so pathetic, it does get boring because such idiotic dialog is the product of a mind with nothing intelligent to say . . . and you can only tolerate that for so long LOL.


Wow, you are a real piece of work. I had as much fun writing that as you didn't have whilst missing the sarcasm.

Dude, seriously... Go catch a fish. You need some time alone with yourself...


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

opcorn:


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

I put the EmblemX 5000T on a 1508 and it felt really unbalanced and ill fitting. 

I then put in on a 1502 I had built ten years ago and pretty much had only cast a few times on the beach
It feels pretty much at home and makes a rod I was trying to get rid of useful


$50 Reel (I got it on sale) $150 value
$125 blank (I got it on sale) $225 Value
$50 Alconites (No break from Ryan) $50 Value
$10 Reel Seat (Fuji Lightweight) 
$10 worth of cork tape
Wrapped AA under and over no charge from Garbo

$245 and under budget

Basically a brand new setup for no charge out of Garbos Garage
And presto I am ready to get it on with these Rock and look good while I am at it in my Grundens and Neopreme's which cost more than my Rod/Reel


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

Anyone know CPR? This horse needs resuscitation.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

I love this thread.

Bible, anyone?


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## HuskyMD (May 19, 2000)

*willing to be guinea pig - just need a free high-end spinning reel*

The new rod I am waiting on can be used equally as well with a conventional as with a spinning reel.

I plan to do some unofficial testing at the Spring Fling next Saturday. I will cast my new rod with a conventional and then with a spinner. I'll let anyone there decide which is going further. Only thing is, the best spinning reel I have is a Daiwa Team Advantage 4000. Maybe Terpfan will come and let me use his $800 spinning reel? I'm just having fun. It's been years, but I'm pretty sure I went tog fishing with terpfan????


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

Either? Is it a Ballistic?


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## HuskyMD (May 19, 2000)

Team Alabama


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

Ah.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

yeah thats it.....


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

is this what you meant to do?


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Hate to break it to you... But this thread would be worthless, even if it had been started by Ansel Adams.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

not really, some very good info here....


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

AbuMike said:


> not really, some very good info here....


It's not that valuable if it doesn't get seen because nobody has the patience to wade through all the BS. Like finding gold in a cesspool, if you ask me.

Of course, if you'll wade through all that ****, you'll probably find a few nuggets


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

hey, no fair i thought i added some good info either way you just have to "love" these debates


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## 9 rock (Nov 30, 2008)

markedwards said:


> hey, no fair i thought i added some good info either way you just have to "love" these debates


Ya not bad for a cock roach,,,, seriously no insult intended,, I respect u guys opinions , 


9


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

9 rock said:


> Ya not bad for a cock roach,,,, seriously no insult intended,, I respect u guys opinions ,
> 
> 
> 9


no offense taken


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

Garboman said:


> I put the EmblemX 5000T on a 1508 and it felt really unbalanced and ill fitting.
> 
> I then put in on a 1502 I had built ten years ago and pretty much had only cast a few times on the beach
> It feels pretty much at home and makes a rod I was trying to get rid of useful
> ...


dont give up on the 1508... I have two of them built for spinning and they have Emblem sized reels on them and they are capable of Great distances.. 150yrds plus with weight&bait MEASURED... 

I'm not Mark Edwards but I can cast a little bit...


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

Kwesi W.;718677 I'm not Mark Edwards but I can cast a little bit... :)[/QUOTE said:


> Mark Edwards isn't Mark Edwards he's old and slow now


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

maybe next time I see you on the beach I'll challenge you to a cast off!!!!! You scared say you SCARED!!!!! LOL


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

Kwesi W. said:


> maybe next time I see you on the beach I'll challenge you to a cast off!!!!! You scared say you SCARED!!!!! LOL


i said old and slow i didn't say anything about weak. i have 20 dollars that says i can outcast you.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

I have $21.50 that say you can't beat my best cast by more than 20 yards...  Weight and Bait that is....


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

Kwesi W. said:


> I have $21.50 that say you can't beat my best cast by more than 20 yards...  Weight and Bait that is....


bring it


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

"dont give up on the 1508... I have two of them built for spinning and they have Emblem sized reels on them and they are capable of Great distances.. 150yrds plus with weight&bait MEASURED... "

What is weight&bait in ounces?

I have not given up on the 1508's yet........ but they all have 6 inches off the tips and are fitted with competition butts with 525Mags or SL0sh's on them and they get it out there with 8 ounces of weight. Regular 1508 butt is too bendy for conventionals.

I was actually more interested in a lighter style of fishing with Spinners, in fact I bought the EmblemX specifically because there was a fisherman standing next to me one November at Oregon Inlet and he was fishing the EmblemX with live eels free lining them and he took a couple Stripers in the 30 pound range..........I had no live eels and the old man was not giving any away.....I think he was from up North somewhere and he told me he had been at it for seventy years....and had been on some big bites out on the Vineyard..

At the time I was fishing a 5 oz Sting Silver with above 1508 rig and am pretty sure 180+ yards on the fly with the Sting Silver is no issue it may even be approaching 200 yards in a light following wind, you can't hear them hit they fly like competition sinkers...............what I couldn't do was free line a live eel......in the Trough

I had the EmblemX on a mini Surf Stick for 1-3 ounces and while it fished plugs good it was too little a rod to go up against the likes of this thread so I upgraded a but. 1502 balances pretty nicely with the Emblem and now I can free line a live eel in the Trough if I have some eels in the cooler that is...


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## chris storrs (Aug 25, 2005)

AbuMike said:


> indeed it is. but, 170yds is a long way from 200yds.....


whose throwin 200?
theres not a single person ive ever seen throw 8nbait 200 yards...noone... not william, wimpy, arch, lee, tom harris, big dave, wyatt, joel, lum, rolland, angel, aj, nick walke, zach none of em can.......spinner vs. conventional doesnt matter, our fishing obviously leads us to use conv, because we throw 17-25 lb mono, but regardless of the reel with drumline aint noone hittin 200 with a mullet head and a 8 ounce sinker

not argueing just dont understand ur comment


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## chris storrs (Aug 25, 2005)

ReelinRod said:


> Don't you ever get tired of being wrong? What would a couple hundred pound Bluefin Tuna do to an Abu or SLoSH LOL?
> 
> Jeez, I bent the shaft of a 6500 pulling in a clump of weed in strong inlet current.


agree with ya on 99% of what ya said reelinrod but ya went apples to oranges with that one, a slosh for 100$ will put dozens, even hundreds of drum on the beach or in the pier net, but it isnt a 900$ stella...a 600-800$ accurate bx2, international vsx, tiburon, saltiga 2 speed, or other similarly priced reel will put said tuna on the boat however...back to apples to apples when ya go back to a reel in the price range, having said that, i know of PLENTY of big bluefins caught in the past few seasons on saltists(new age slosh if you will, i still prefer the old black n gold shv and graphite spool versions)....160$ or so...granted some exploded, but so do the saragosa and similarly priced spinners


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## chris storrs (Aug 25, 2005)

ReelinRod said:


> Well yeah, as a primary tactic it is localized on the OBX and the Southern parts of the DelMarVa peninsula. It skips Jersey and pokes up on the South Shore of Long Island primarily around the inlets with guys fishing old 156 and even 168 Lamis with big 400 series Newells fishing big bunker chunks.


why in the world are long island boys usin 400 series newells to catch a striper?thats 6500/ 525 mag/daiwa 20/NEWELL 220 territory to us....ive got a 344 for cobia sharks jacks kings lol...


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

chris,
abumikes reply was to someone who thought i hit 600 with 8&bait but it was a miscommunication i hit 511 with a clipped down rig with an 8oz sinker and a 6 inch sassy shad minus the tail. 

i wonder how many tuna have been landed with a thunnus? after all it is named after them you'd think somebody landed one with it.


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## chris storrs (Aug 25, 2005)

ReelinRod said:


> Here's a nice shot from Thursday of the action that was typical (first picture was the following Saturday after the word was out!):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


looks like an uncrowded weekday on the point with alotta bowed rods and a small crowd, before the vacation drum guys leave diamond shoals breakfast, jetty guys just look a little drier haha..great pic....EDIT: i included wrong pic in quote, i have not mastered the quoting yet ha


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## chris storrs (Aug 25, 2005)

markedwards said:


> chris,
> abumikes reply was to someone who thought i hit 600 with 8&bait but it was a miscommunication i hit 511 with a clipped down rig with an 8oz sinker and a 6 inch sassy shad minus the tail.
> 
> i wonder how many tuna have been landed with a thunnus? after all it is named after them you'd think somebody landed one with it.


ahh now i understand, 511 is still damn good as would be expected from you, i remember the 1st year conn won the fisherman big weight n bait comp i was there, dont remember distances tho....wonder what you could do with a standard 1" leader drum hook rig, an 8 ounce, and a cobbhead on the hook trimmed up aerodynamic style....id assume the cobbhead would fly better than the sassyshad minus tail, but not sure about clipdown vs. short drum leader...just thinkin outloud...one of these days im gonna make it to another casting comp and try out you or RRs spinners


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

6oz and a Single Dropper Rig.. with a 5/0 hook with a bloodworm




Garboman said:


> "dont give up on the 1508... I have two of them built for spinning and they have Emblem sized reels on them and they are capable of Great distances.. 150yrds plus with weight&bait MEASURED... "
> 
> What is weight&bait in ounces?
> 
> ...


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

markedwards said:


> i said old and slow i didn't say anything about weak. i have 20 dollars that says i can outcast you.


Mark I thought you only casted for :beer:?


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## Charlie2 (May 2, 2007)

I really don't think that you'd have the chance of a snowball in a casting match with markedwards. JMHO 
I use a MItchell 406 with 20# test braid and I'm afraid to turn it loose! I don't really know how far it would go with a mrmarkedwards on the end of it. It's far enough to reach the second bar and that's enough for my purposes.

Mark: I'm still 'evaluating' the black Mamba. I'm putting some fishing miles on it and so far, it's a real winner. c2


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## 7.62 (Apr 15, 2011)

Fair enough...there are a couple of recommendations in the thread. I read every post over a couple of days, and must have forgotten that actual setups were actually mentioned. 

MarkEdwards - I'm not trying to be difficult here, but are these Okuma's some type of hidden gem? I have heard that Okuma's are junk many times over. To my point (and I see you are an interested party here), there is a member selling 3 Okuma Avengers for $90 shipped. 3 reels with secondary drags for $90 _shipped_, and the guy can't seem to get rid of them. 

I noticed Cabela's has the Daiwa Sealine Black Bite n' Run on sale for $99 shipped. Seems like a good deal if anyone is interested. They only seem to have the 4500 model though, which I guess is big enough if you are using braid.

http://www.cabelas.com/reels-daiwa-...-4975-E111-88CA-001B21631C34&mr:referralID=NA


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## sprtsracer (Apr 27, 2005)

BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION! If you ain't in a damn distance tournament (which would be pretty damned hard to measure out off a danged beach) then don't worry about it! If you are comfortable throwing a spinner more so than a bait caster, so be it! Yeah, a well tuned bait caster may throw a little further than a spinner "given the right conditions", but who gives a ****? What counts is whether or not you get your bait where you want it is what counts, and, more importantly, whether or not you are catching fish! BTW...when I say "bait", I'm talking lures, also. Use what you are comfortable with, and what works for you. I don't give a crap what equipment you are using...If you are fishing and you aren't catching fish, then you may as well head home and watch a Bill Dance show.You'll have more fun!


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

sprtsracer said:


> then you may as well head home and watch a Bill Dance show.


I hate Bill Dance.


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## sprtsracer (Apr 27, 2005)

My point, exactly, LOL!


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

7.62 said:


> Fair enough...there are a couple of recommendations in the thread. I read every post over a couple of days, and must have forgotten that actual setups were actually mentioned.
> 
> MarkEdwards - I'm not trying to be difficult here, but are these Okuma's some type of hidden gem? I have heard that Okuma's are junk many times over. To my point (and I see you are an interested party here), there is a member selling 3 Okuma Avengers for $90 shipped. 3 reels with secondary drags for $90 _shipped_, and the guy can't seem to get rid of them.
> 
> ...


you can ask 10 guys that have okuma reels and you'll probably get a 50-50 split love hate. i lean towards the love side of the deal. yes some of them do have problems but if it has a problem don't let it linger contact them right away they have great customer service and they'll be happy to fix or replace it and for the short green for one thats not a bad deal to me.


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

solid7 said:


> I hate Bill Dance.


Look up a video of his bloopers. Hilarious, he can be such a nitwit. The one where he falls off the dock with the battery is classic.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

dudeondacouch said:


> Look up a video of his bloopers. Hilarious, he can be such a nitwit. The one where he falls off the dock with the battery is classic.


That's why I hate him. I'm working, and he's an idiot, getting rich for being a dipstick. And I have to be in an office while he is fishing.

I hate Bill Dance.


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## jamesvafisher (Jul 4, 2010)

And I wonder why I never get on this site anymore..


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## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

solid7 said:


> That's why I hate him. I'm working, and he's an idiot, getting rich for being a dipstick. And I have to be in an office while he is fishing.
> 
> I hate Bill Dance.


He is pretty freaken stupid


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