# Question for the Abu Guys



## tjbjornsen (Oct 31, 2009)

OK, since I ventured over to the dark side, and got started with the conventionals, and Abus in particular, I have been going about setting up my reels sort of hit and miss.
I tighten / loosen the right side knob until I have a bit of spool knock, and then tighten / loosen the left side knob until I am not blowing it up when I cast.
Should I be going about this in a more precise way?
Like, should I loosen the left side knob all the way, and then tighten down the right side knob until I have just a bit of knock, and then tighten down the left side as needed? 
What is the starting point when trying to dial these beautiful reels in just so?
All of the bearings have been cleaned out, and all have Yellow Rocket in them.
I can throw them all just fine, but I want to make sure that I am not "leaving anything on the table" so to speak, and want to make sure that I am getting all that I can out of them.
And a couple just seem to be a bit more persnickety as far as blowing up on me than the others.
Thanks in advance,
Tom


----------



## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

Use those knobs to center the spool and have a SLIGHT hint of side to side knock. I usually have mine set so that I can feel the knock and not see it. Then use the brakes to control the spool during the cast. Do this and she is giving everything she has.


----------



## tjbjornsen (Oct 31, 2009)

So do I start with *both* knobs backed out all the way, and then turn each of them in the same amount until I have your SLIGHT hint of spool knock?
So theoretically if they both have the same number of turns down/in to get to SLIGHT, then the spool should be centered?
Thanks Kingfeeder...


----------



## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

You are trying to be over precise just a little. Just look at the spool. If it is centered already, loosen both equally until you get the slight knock. If it isn't centered, just slightly loosen the side it needs to go over towards, tighten the other side accordingly, center spool and adjust to get knock. I don't know how full you fill your spools, you may need to pull a little line out to be able to see clearly if the spool is centered. Once it is centered, and you have your knock.... remember to check it occasionally during your fishing trips. Esp this time of year. Depending on how close of tolerance you allow your "knock" to be, Abu's can tighten up or loosen up as the weather changes. I have been in positions where I set it in the am, in the pm, when the sun is out and hot, I have to adjust it again.


----------



## tjbjornsen (Oct 31, 2009)

Wow!
Getting called "over-precise" by a distance caster is kind of ironic, no?


I get it, and thanks again,
I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything, and from what you are saying, I don't think I am.
Thanks Robert!


----------



## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)




----------



## Hooked Up (Feb 6, 2009)

As far as abus go i prefer the ct mag elites and this is why....you have a mag unit that will allow you to adjust as you learn to cast.....dont get me wrong the reels with brake blocks[blue yonder /chrome rocket] can be tamed but not tuned to current conditions on the beach without opening the reel up....ditch the yellow and use the red its more predictable...i started out with 5 magnets in the tray ,little side knock and red oil.......quickly as i got smoother in my cast i removed 2 magnets and have gone to just 3....makes a very controlable/PREDICTABLE/ long distance casting FISHING reel.....lately ive had to go back to 4 magnets in some of my reels as im learning to hit the rod harder....yes i know the plastic slide does tend to get knocked outta adjustment at times but i do check mine before each cast with a simple slide of the thumb......better yet you can also one handedly adjust the mag off during flight(SOMETHING YOU CANT DO WITH A KNOB MAG) if you really wanna make um fly.....but we are only talking feet here..my 6500 ct mags hold 275 yards of line and continue to be my favorite reel......abu 6500 mag elite, 3 magnets ,red oil and a little side knock....smoothhhhhhh cast


----------



## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

this is why i like (and finally have to admit) prefer the akios reels - in addition to their stellar build and material quality, they have a good side adjustable spool mag (AND have lefty models for almost all their rightys). but thekingfeeder nailed it all as to tweaking a non-mag abu for distance. the rest is in yer casting technique, carefully selected rod & payload, thin diameter line. it's all good.


----------



## Hooked Up (Feb 6, 2009)

i just knew when i typed that this would turn into a "my reel is better then your reel" thread


----------



## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

aaaaa, it's all personal subjective stuff - and most of us argue with ourselves over what reel we're gonna fish with today.


----------



## Borthwick (Sep 4, 2011)

Hey guys, I want to get into the conventional world myself and am choking on the terms being used in this thread. Can someone point me to a good tutorial on what all of this tuning stuff is about?


----------



## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

Borthwick said:


> Hey guys, I want to get into the conventional world myself and am choking on the terms being used in this thread. Can someone point me to a good tutorial on what all of this tuning stuff is about?


are you interested in revolving spool reels ("conventional") for bait fishing or plugging or both? do you know which hand you prefer to use to crank that puppy?


----------



## HStew (Jan 8, 2009)

I center the spool first by looking at the reveal of the spool and each side plate.Once that is done loosen a tad ( I use left side)for the "no see" knock (just slight side to side play). Affix your lure or weight and rig ,raise or reel to top of rod then let it drop in free spool. If your weight drops too fast , reel in, tighten knob till weight drops real slow. Try a cast and loosen or tighten accordingly. Do this every time you change weight size, and if you change out reel to another rod. And Remember to do this when fishing P.I., tjb.


----------



## Borthwick (Sep 4, 2011)

BeachBob said:


> are you interested in revolving spool reels ("conventional") for bait fishing or plugging or both? do you know which hand you prefer to use to crank that puppy?


Bait fishing with right hand crank. Thanks.


----------



## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

BeachBob said:


> this is why i like (and finally have to admit) prefer the akios reels - in addition to their stellar build and material quality, they have a good side adjustable spool mag (AND have lefty models for almost all their rightys). but thekingfeeder nailed it all as to tweaking a non-mag abu for distance. the rest is in yer casting technique, carefully selected rod & payload, thin diameter line. it's all good.


How would you set an abu up differently for a magged abu?


----------



## tjbjornsen (Oct 31, 2009)

Well,
I did it exactly as Robert said and went out for a 4 hour session making sure the Abus and Akios were good to go for next week's pilgrimage to PI.
For reference, I only took my 5500s as my 6500s are dialed in right where I like them.
One is a older model 5500 CS that Jerry Foran built, but it had to go in for some work last week so I figured it could use some setting in. 
The other two are two different model 5500 Pro Rockets, both of which have been massaged by Jerry.
One is a CS converted to a CT frame and is a model #16 00 and the other is a straight CS, model #13 00.
The Model 16 00 has a very different type of brake system than I have not seen before, with a six pin arrangement with square plastic blocks that seem to have an indent so they can be snapped in place at the innermost setting so they do not move. All brakes are in place, and all brakes are in the snapped position.
The model 13 00 has a conventional 2 pin brake setup with both (brown) brakes in place.
Both have Abec Ceramic bearings all around, and the CS 13 00 had the following added/replaced;
BB cog wheel
Cog wheel BB
5500 dual BB levelwind
Ceramic pawl
I believe that Jerry uses Yellow Rocket Fuel in all of the reels he sets up, and I have not changed it.
All three have 11# Sakuma on them, and all with a 40# shock of Ande Clear. Weight was a 3.90 oz bank sinker.
All were thrown today with a CCP 11' built conventional.
Casting style is a simple straight back Hatteras thump, where I begin my forward swing with the weight extended straight back behind me.

I tightened down both side knobs completly, and then loosened them equally until the spool was as centered as my eye could tell, and then loosened until I had just the slightest bit of knock, almost imperceptable. (_Side note to Harry... as the knobs were, I would get a pretty quick drop straight to the ground in free spool,,,_)
All three threw almost the same distance, between 140 and 150 yards, with the CT Frame besting the two CS' consistently, but not by much.
There was a 10-12 mpg wind coming at me from about a 45 degree angle the whole time I was out there.
Completly tame, never even close to any over run, with just the slightest hint of fluff midway. 
I backed off the left side knob until I was just starting to get the fluff mid cast and then left it there.
That is as well as I have ever thrown those 5500s, and for me, I cannot imagine needing more, but this question started because I was really wondering how much I could really expect to get out of them if set up exactly right. 
I am sure that guys like Robert could get a lot more out of them, but for my casting style, and admitted lack of casting practice and technique I am fairly pleased.

I also spent some time with my Akios Shuttle 656 and 757 CTM.
I won't bore you with all of the same details as above, but I was able to get both of those throwing in the 160 yard range with minimal drama, and only one blowup on the Shuttle when I dialed it back a little too far.

All in all a good morning at the lake getting ready for PI.


----------



## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

thekingfeeder said:


> How would you set an abu up differently for a magged abu?


i knobby magged an older 6501cs and all i needed to was keep the spool ever so slightly loose to the touch. cleaned the bearings and use one drop of tsi301 in each, kept both brake blocks on. all of this made for a VERY fast reel - too fast for the 11' tica throwing 5'n'bait. that's where the mag tamed the spool speed. easy peasy.


----------



## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

Borthwick said:


> Bait fishing with right hand crank. Thanks.


for bait fishing i don't want or need a level wind, so for me and fishies up to striped bass and bluefish, that means an abu 6500 size, akios 656 or avet sx mc reel (all can be had with mag spool control). any of those reels can handle reasonably large fish in the surf, perhaps save for sharks, huge drum and the like - for those, an abu 7000, akios 757 or avet mx mc reel will do fine. 

as a newbie to revolving spool reels, load up with 15-17# mono and a 30-40# shock leader. select a rod in the 10-11' range that will throw the kinda payload weight you intend to cast - ask around about the rod as most rods will not throw their listed weight range well and typically are more efficient with a narrower/lesser range of payload weights. learn how to set up and properly cast a revolving spool reel. most guys never graduate past a simple overhead cast, and while that can yield good distance with an acceptable rod/reel/line, venturing into off-the-ground and swing casts will allow reaching out and touching far longer distances. for practice, i stick a sinker inside of a tennis ball and get the weight to equal about what i'd throwing (sinker'n'bait blob) - the ball adds the kinda drag resistance you'll experience throwing bait chunks. i have balls set up for 3, 5, 7 and 9ozs. enjoy conventional reel surf fishing, it's my fave and i don't even own a spinning reel.  hope some of this helps.


----------



## Borthwick (Sep 4, 2011)

Thank you, sir. Great info and I appreciate it.


----------



## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

BeachBob said:


> any of those reels can handle reasonably large fish in the surf, perhaps save for sharks, huge drum and the like - for those, an abu 7000Maybe, akios 757 never usedor avet mx mc reel Avets suck IMO,better of using them for a sinkerwill do fine.


A daiwa 30 really needs to be i there, better than all of those from what ive seen


----------



## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

NC KingFisher said:


> A daiwa 30 really needs to be i there, better than all of those from what ive seen


1. it's not nice to edit anyone's quoted text.

2. daiwa's suck hairy ballz - there, now i feel better ... well, not really. some daiwa's surely are fine casting reels.

3. you must have limited reel experience, particularly when it comes to superb avet reels.

4. as always, ymmv. have a nice day. :--|


----------



## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

I cant trust avets, or should i say TEVA because of all their problems ive had. Terrible customer service, sucky reel preformance, bad bearings, dry drags, the list goes on. I have a friend who literally owns a TEVA 50w. If you are willing to get everything fixed, you have a tough little reel that belongs on a boat. Ill stick with my penns, abus, and daiwa.


----------



## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

never had an Avet, but have several daiwa's and abu's and not any problems with them ... still don't know why Abu hasn't sued Akios over copying their reels ... oh well Another Thing China has stole from somebody else


----------



## mots reel deal (Aug 11, 2011)

dont think they can sue seeing the patent pending ran out over 20 years ago


----------



## tjbjornsen (Oct 31, 2009)

"Avets suck IMO,better of using them for a sinker"

That Sir, may be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen anyone post on this board.
YOU may not like Avets, for whatever reasons you may have, but they certainly do not suck.
That is a ridiculous thing to say.


----------



## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

I hate that he has had so many problems with Avet. I have only had 8 or so over the years and never had any problems with any of them. All of the SX MC's I have had once tweaked a little were/are very competent casters, very reliable, great line capacity, bulletproof, and for less than a mag elite at my local tackle shop, a better return on investment for me. There is no way that I can cast an Avet further than an abu, but I can get the Avet anywhere it needs to drop 6-8nbait. I do still use Abu for 4oz work.


----------



## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

i think that an abu 6500/01 c3 is by far the absolute best reel for anyone wanting to go conventional for beach, jetty or boat. cheap at brandy new for $95/shipped in the usa. the level wind can be disabled and enabled as need be. mag spool control may be wanted, but truthfully with that reel it's not needed. load it with mono, select an appropriate rod (this may take some investigation, as i believe that the right rod is critical) and yer ready to learn revolving spool reel casting and fishing. experiment with super line/braid as yer casting experience sharpens. ymmv.


----------



## dres79 (Sep 10, 2010)

BeachBob said:


> i think that an abu 6500/01 c3 is by far the absolute best reel for anyone wanting to go conventional for beach, jetty or boat. cheap at brandy new for $95/shipped in the usa. the level wind can be disabled and enabled as need be. mag spool control may be wanted, but truthfully with that reel it's not needed.


+1 ... i learned on a 6501 C3 and that reel is still performing and casting like new. When my girlfriend wanted to start fishing all i have is conventional so that is what i taught her on. then she bought it for herself. same with my brother and couple friends. i recently converted mine to CT and fell in love with it again. it has been fished on the same rod since day one ( Tica TC2 Graphite 11') and for me that is the combo for it (IMO). 

i have to agree that for a beginner this is the reel to go with. i can say this with comfort as i fish Abu Akios and Avet and have tried all of them on many rods. 



and just my .02 >>> for the Avet. SX MC 2Speed that i have i HATED IT for a while. thought about selling it for many months. then one day it just hit right and i stopped having my issues. after 8yrs of Abu it was a big change for me to get used to. but like i said those reels needs to be learned. i ended up taking it with me with no back up on a couple trips so i had to take my time and learn it. point: if you own a Avet and hate it take your time with it. Its a really well built and strong with a lot of potential! again (IMO)


----------



## big brother (May 15, 2002)

Guys,
A little different slant on this "knock" business. When I go fishing with little brother (TOMMY), I can cast his reels, but he cannot cast mine. I started this surf fishin stuff in 1952, daddy took me fishing beside Johnny Mercers pier for my 6th birthday, with a penn long beach (or was it a squidder) and you always had plenty of side to side play in the reel. At that time the term "educated thumb" really meant something. Today I guess it is an educated brake block or mag adjustment. Anyway, my go to reel now is a blue yonder not really with knock, I guess the best term is significant slop. Not everyone needs the same thing. Don't get me wrong TOMMY can kick my butt casting with a snoopy special. LOL
charlie
charlie


----------



## J Barbosa (Aug 22, 2012)

I can't see how anybody could knock the Avet's product. They seem rock solid and Avet purposely leaves the drags dry on their reels. They even state not to grease them on their website. I don't see why you would want to grease a leverdrag other than for waterproofing.

I got my first one for the surf last week (SX MC in LH) and my only complaint is that the reel is very slow/overmagged from the factory (but this may be a good thing for conventional beginners like me). I was getting more distance with the mag on the lowest setting and no fluff than I needed so I may leave it this way for a while as its very tame. 

The Akios 651 CTM is there when/if I need to cast further but I haven't been able to consistently hit it hard without some fluff/almost backlashing. I have achieved really nice distances on some casts but nothing I would try in the middle of a hot bite. 

I really like both and my next reel will be a Akios LH shuttle. I really like how the spool sits low on the reel.

DIAWA makes a range of reels, most of them are high quality.

Penn in the under $200 category has really disapointed me lately although their customer service has made up for it. The Penn I know sure isn't the same one my dad or most of you knew. They are trying hard to come back to the top and I hope they do.


----------



## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

J Barbosa said:


> I can't see how anybody could knock the Avet's product. They seem rock solid and Avet purposely leaves the drags dry on their reels. They even state not to grease them on their website. I don't see why you would want to grease a leverdrag other than for waterproofing.
> 
> I got my first one for the surf last week (SX MC in LH) and my only complaint is that *the reel is very slow/overmagged from the factory* (but this may be a good thing for conventional beginners like me). I was getting more distance with the mag on the lowest setting and no fluff than I needed so I may leave it this way for a while as its very tame.
> 
> ...


That is a common misconception. They are slow. They are not over magged, although it seems like it. They are over greased. There is a thick grease in the bearings. Clean it ALL out, add some oil and it will throw. I have gotten a good bit of fluff in a strong tailwind with an SX MC before. They can be fast. Not necessarily Abu/Akios fast, but enough to blow up if you aren't watching it.


----------



## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

big brother said:


> Guys,
> A little different slant on this "knock" business. When I go fishing with little brother (TOMMY), I can cast his reels, but he cannot cast mine. I started this surf fishin stuff in 1952, daddy took me fishing beside Johnny Mercers pier for my 6th birthday, with a penn long beach (or was it a squidder) and you always had plenty of side to side play in the reel. At that time the term "educated thumb" really meant something. Today I guess it is an educated brake block or mag adjustment. Anyway, my go to reel now is a blue yonder not really with knock, I guess the best term is significant slop. Not everyone needs the same thing. Don't get me wrong TOMMY can kick my butt casting with a snoopy special. LOL
> charlie
> charlie


I always threw with an educated thumb until I started hanging out with your brother and that crowd. They are the ones that got me on mags.


----------



## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

tjbjornsen said:


> "Avets suck IMO,better of using them for a sinker"
> 
> That Sir, may be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen anyone post on this board.
> YOU may not like Avets, for whatever reasons you may have, but they certainly do not suck.
> That is a ridiculous thing to say.


Let me rephrase that. All of the AVETs ive handled have sucked. They have all been earlier models, but they were still no good and had problems. The newer ones might be better, but i cannot trust them


----------



## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

J Barbosa said:


> I can't see how anybody could knock the Avet's product. They seem rock solid and Avet purposely leaves the drags dry on their reels. They even state not to grease them on their website. I don't see why you would want to grease a leverdrag other than for waterproofing.


Improves smoothness a ton, close to 0 startup, it goes on and on


----------



## J Barbosa (Aug 22, 2012)

thekingfeeder said:


> That is a common misconception. They are slow. They are not over magged, although it seems like it. They are over greased. There is a thick grease in the bearings. Clean it ALL out, add some oil and it will throw. I have gotten a good bit of fluff in a strong tailwind with an SX MC before. They can be fast. Not necessarily Abu/Akios fast, but enough to blow up if you aren't watching it.


Thanks,

In line with what I have been told.

I am using the Avet for heavy weights and the distance is good enough for what I plan to use it for. I'm on the fence about cleaning the bearings out just yet.

After you cleaned yours what was your mag setting for say 6oz no wind?


----------



## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

i've had a gaggle of avets, mostly sx and some mx. i had the early ones without mc and just static magged them, easy enuf. i've had 3 sx mc's and i liked them for what they are, reely tough reels. there is no question they are NOT distance casters out of the box, they all need degreasing and with a drop of tsi301 in the spool bearings these little reels are freakin' FAST and are totally uncastable without spool mag control. however, i could not get used to that lever drag and just sold off my last sx mc. i'm just an old, battered abu star drag reel kinda guy ... and now akios, too.  i think the solid framed akios shuttle series is gonna be the benchmark for surf casting reels .... jmho.


----------



## hifu (Aug 3, 2006)

Center your spool with the knob that does not have the markings, once you have it centered adjust the marked side to get yur little bit of play...once happy then set yur markings to 0..then you can adjust accordingly and know how much you have readjusted


----------



## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

J Barbosa said:


> Thanks,
> 
> In line with what I have been told.
> 
> ...


I will generally leave my mag on 2 if I am hittin it hard. I will drop to 1 in a tail wind.


----------



## tjbjornsen (Oct 31, 2009)

Beachbob,
What was the orientation of the magnets from the factory? 
I see + - + (or - + - ) depending on how you mark them, and just wondered if you switched them out.
I've cleaned out my bearings and tried the tsi301 but it was just too fast for me so I cleaned them again and went with Yellow Rocket and that seemed to do the trick for me.
Hadn't thought of the reversing the magnet deal like I did on my Akios (after reading about it here.)
Tom


----------



## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

tjbjornsen said:


> Beachbob,
> What was the orientation of the magnets from the factory?
> I see + - + (or - + - ) depending on how you mark them, and just wondered if you switched them out.
> I've cleaned out my bearings and tried the tsi301 but it was just too fast for me so I cleaned them again and went with Yellow Rocket and that seemed to do the trick for me.
> ...


doesn't matter how you flip the polarity orientation when using multiple magnets as long as you do it. either way (*+ - +* or *- + -*) works better than if all the mags were oriented the same.

yeah man, that tsi301 is *FAST* and makes rocket fuel feel like brakes are on full.  

guys who think their avets are slow compared to an abu need to thorughly clean out the reel grease and lube with tsi301 and their volkswagen avet will be magically turned into a ferrari - and why an avet MUST have spool magnets. no lie.


----------



## tjbjornsen (Oct 31, 2009)

Yeah, I figured I would try the tsi301 stuff after reading about it on Tani's site.
Of course they only sell it in like quart cans, which is like a 400 year supply if all you are doing with it is using it on bearings.
As soon as I got it, I broke down like 5 or 6 of my reels, Abu, Avet, Akios, you name it, cleaned out all of the bearings and put in the tsi, and took them down to the lake to give them a tryout with my new find.
Of course I came back from the lake with 5 or 6 completly blown up reels, and spent the rest of the afternoon cutting about a zillion yards of perfectly good line off of my spools!
I think that was the day I adopted "Fluff, Zing, Pow!" as my signature!


----------



## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

i did a test with the last avet sx mc i had. when it arrived from charkbait, spooled with 30# toro braid, i stuck it on an 11' tica and threw a 5oz tennnis ball. didn't need any mag control at all. took it back to the shop. degreased completely, lubed the spool bearings with tsi301, back to the field and (at least for me) needed near max mag control or ... FLUFF! - ZING!! - POW!!!  ... but man, did that 5oz ball travel with a simple "fisherman's cast".


----------



## dres79 (Sep 10, 2010)

tjbjornsen;757207
Of course I came back from the lake with 5 or 6 completly blown up reels said:


> that is why i have learned to ONLY tweak, update, enhance, test run, whatever you call it 1 reel at a time. lost so much line and time cutting ...


----------



## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

BeachBob said:


> doesn't matter how you flip the polarity orientation when using multiple magnets as long as you do it. either way (*+ - +* or *- + -*) works better than if all the mags were oriented the same.
> 
> yeah man, that tsi301 is *FAST* and makes rocket fuel feel like brakes are on full.
> 
> *guys who think their avets are slow compared to an abu need to thorughly clean out the reel grease and lube with tsi301 and their volkswagen avet will be magically turned into a ferrari - and why an avet MUST have spool magnets. no lie*.


I throw my abu's dry with hybrids. I have thrown Avet's SX MC's (stock and hybrid bearings) greased, oiled, and dry right next to my abu's in the field for purposes of bragging about how the Avet's throw just as well as the Abu's, we also included a shuttle in one test for that matter. Same lines, same weight, same rods, same casters, everything we can think of to standardize, we did. Alas, I can not. And I sincerely tried. If this were the case, long distance comps worldwide would be using Avet's as well as abu's. I can get my Avet's to fluff in a tailwind. I can get my Avet's to throw as far as I would ever need 6-8nbait, but foot for foot, a properly tuned Avet will not outcast a properly tuned Abu. The Abu will have the advantage.

Just as one example the heavier Avet spool takes far more energy to start turning than the Abu. The Abu is designed for casting. The Avet is a boat reel we are forcing to cast. Don't get it twisted, I am sold out on my Avet's in the sand. I don't think there is a better return on investment. But, that is my opinion. Now for the casting comparisons, a few friends and myself have put the time in trying to objectively compare Avet to Abu. The tape measure doesn't lie when comparing those 2 reels and the various tunings.

But, then again, that is just my rambling about my experience. YMMV...


----------



## tjbjornsen (Oct 31, 2009)

When you say "Hybrid" bearings, are you talking about ceramics?


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

tjbjornsen said:


> When you say "Hybrid" bearings, are you talking about ceramics?


Stainless Steel races with ceramic balls

All ceramic bearings are prohibitively expensive....


----------



## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

solid7 said:


> Stainless Steel races with ceramic balls
> 
> All ceramic bearings are prohibitively expensive....


Rocket has a set I have used for around 80.00-85.00 a pair for full ceramics. The prices are coming down compared to some. Of course, when I bought those a year and a half or so ago, the exchange rate was better. I used them for a little while, didn't notice enough of a performance gain for the price and passed them on to someone else. I am sure if I would have held on to them and gave them more of an honest effort, I would have kept them. For the field only.


----------



## tjbjornsen (Oct 31, 2009)

Huh, 
I've had Jerry Foran put Abec 5 bearings in all of my Abus and I just checked an invoice and he charged me $8.00 a piece for them.
But then I look here 
http://www.therocketreelcompany.com/en/5-rocket-reel-bearings
(these guys seem to indicate they are the ones that invented them)
and their prices run anywhere from $20 US to $78 US for these bad boys!
http://www.therocketreelcompany.com...ersal-replacement-bearings-reel-bearings.html


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

thekingfeeder said:


> Rocket has a set I have used for around 80.00-85.00 a pair for full ceramics. The prices are coming down compared to some. Of course, when I bought those a year and a half or so ago, the exchange rate was better. I used them for a little while, didn't notice enough of a performance gain for the price and passed them on to someone else. I am sure if I would have held on to them and gave them more of an honest effort, I would have kept them. For the field only.


I've always like them from the standpoint - not so much of performance - but of maintenance. The full ceramics require no lubrication, (obviously) and don't rust or gall. From what I've seen of them, they also "match" pairs much better than metal or hybrids.

But I absolutely refuse to pay the price premium. Last time I priced them for an Abu, they were $109.00. Hopefully, in the future, ceramics will replace metal in a lot of applications, and price will come down. Typically, ultra high speed applications will use full ceramics, so they are already becoming less of a specialty item. (my first experience with them was in superchargers)


----------



## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

The rockets are hybrid (or full), clean, and matched. I have ordered hybrids in bulk before to only get 2 sets out of 10 that spin properly, then may 1 set out of 20 that are matched closely. Those ABEC 5 are probably similar to stock. Those are GREAT bearings for fishing. Really no need for anything more for fishing. Tourney casting, we get anal about stuff that we probably don't need to be. LOL We want both of our bearings to spin up about the same time, hence, matched. Guys have experimented with many different brands and styles, Boca just to name another. In my fishing reels, I USUALLY do not put anything other than stock in there. There are times I may have a set of bearings laying around I might want to play with, but for the most part, I can't see putting a pricey set of bearings in that I will just be exposing to the elements.


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

tjbjornsen said:


> Huh,
> I've had Jerry Foran put Abec 5 bearings in all of my Abus and I just checked an invoice and he charged me $8.00 a piece for them.
> But then I look here
> http://www.therocketreelcompany.com/en/5-rocket-reel-bearings
> ...



ABEC ratings are just manufacturing tolerances. ALL types of bearings wear an ABEC rating, no matter what their composition. (be it stainless, high chromium, or ceramic) So yes, it's reasonable to conclude that a standard ABEC bearing cost $8 a set, while a full ceramic is $80. (with a hybrid being about $25) The links that you provided point to hybrid and full ceramic bearings - not the all metal that you received.

The equipment to produce ball bearings has been around forever, and is far cheaper to own and operate. Ceramic balls are sintered, and require different types of processing. They will probaby never be cheaper than metal, unless someone finds a way to nano print them.


----------



## Hooked Up (Feb 6, 2009)

4oz lead,a chunk of blue, 17lb tritanium,no wind,ff rig,avet sx mc,red rocket fuel,stock bearings,mag setting 2,1506 rainshadow, = BLOWN UP REEL
she was a singing tho


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Hooked Up said:


> 4oz lead,a chunk of blue, 17lb tritanium,no wind,ff rig,avet sx mc,red rocket fuel,stock bearings,1506 rainshadow, = BLOWN UP REEL
> she was a singing tho


Happen recently, did it? 

No matter, you wouldn't have caught anything but a catfish


----------



## Hooked Up (Feb 6, 2009)

if your gonna swing ....swing for the fence


----------



## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Hooked Up said:


> if your gonna swing ....swing for the fence


I like it....


----------



## tjbjornsen (Oct 31, 2009)

Man,
All this talk of blowing up Avets has me itching to go home tonight and flip one of the magnets in one of mine and take it out to the lake in the morning and see if I can do it again without the tsi demon oil in it.
At least this time I"ll unspool the Sakuma and fill it with some old Ande that I won't cry about while cutting it off.
;-)


----------



## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

thekingfeeder said:


> I throw my abu's dry with hybrids. I have thrown Avet's SX MC's (stock and hybrid bearings) greased, oiled, and dry right next to my abu's in the field for purposes of bragging about how the Avet's throw just as well as the Abu's, we also included a shuttle in one test for that matter. Same lines, same weight, same rods, same casters, everything we can think of to standardize, we did. Alas, I can not. And I sincerely tried. If this were the case, long distance comps worldwide would be using Avet's as well as abu's. I can get my Avet's to fluff in a tailwind. I can get my Avet's to throw as far as I would ever need 6-8nbait, but foot for foot, a properly tuned Avet will not outcast a properly tuned Abu. The Abu will have the advantage.
> 
> Just as one example the heavier Avet spool takes far more energy to start turning than the Abu. The Abu is designed for casting. The Avet is a boat reel we are forcing to cast. Don't get it twisted, I am sold out on my Avet's in the sand. I don't think there is a better return on investment. But, that is my opinion. Now for the casting comparisons, a few friends and myself have put the time in trying to objectively compare Avet to Abu. The tape measure doesn't lie when comparing those 2 reels and the various tunings.
> 
> But, then again, that is just my rambling about my experience. YMMV...


i absolutely agree. 

abu's are casters and avets are boaters. 

my point was that avets can be made into good surf fishers, not tournament casters, if they're properly "tuned" (degreased and properly oiled). 

however, i still don't like lever drags, i'll stick with my abu's and akios.


----------



## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

LOL, that was the part that got my attention first...the lever.


----------



## Hooked Up (Feb 6, 2009)

its all in the cam


----------



## Charlie2 (May 2, 2007)

I started out with 'thumbbusters' many moons ago.

I like to fish with a reel 'loose as a goose'.

If I can shake it and feel it rattle some, it's about right! JMHO C2


----------



## HStew (Jan 8, 2009)

You got me on that one Charlie2. I thought too tight or too loose = slow and limiting distance. Too tight is self explanatory . Too loose would act like a car tire with loose lug nuts. For some reason I'm not understanding 'loose as a goose' theory.


----------



## Charlie2 (May 2, 2007)

HStew said:


> You got me on that one Charlie2. I thought too tight or too loose = slow and limiting distance. Too tight is self explanatory . Too loose would act like a car tire with loose lug nuts. For some reason I'm not understanding 'loose as a goose' theory.


'Loose as a Goose' is an old country saying which probably described a goose's sanitary habits. It has nothing to do with reels; really. I apologize.

I like to have a loose reel because there is little or no friction. I also use a good grade of mineral oil on the bearings.

It is a learned thing. I can adjust it until it 'feels right' and cast a mile with it. c2


----------



## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

If yall are so serious about bearing preformance, why dont yall fish bushings? Cintered bushings with tsi301 are what some casters use, and they arent worried about them getting messed up


----------



## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

why mess with bushings when bearings are SO much better?


----------



## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

BeachBob said:


> why mess with bushings when bearings are SO much better?


Not to start somethin but they are really not in the long run. Dunk a bearing in saltwater and a bushing in saltwater. A day later the bearing is locked up and the bushing is still spinning. cintered bushings are made of oil and metal particles fused into shape. When heated up they expand and relubricate them selves to a degree. Then they shrink back down when cool and re absorb the oil. Bushing stock absorbs the oil and gets better with age. Bearings do not. Older Abus used bushings. And those guys new what they were doing. I have bearings on all my reels, but thats because i donot have the facilities to manufacture bushings. And i generally fish the pier. On my big reels it dont matter cause the bearings have a *FULL* grease pack


----------



## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

i use boca ceramic bearings in my abu's and now also in the new akios i just bought. the smoothness of a good set of spool bearings just can't be compared over any bushed shaft. imho and ymmv.


----------



## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

Like i said each to his own. But those ceramics wll wear out


----------



## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

NC KingFisher said:


> Like i said each to his own. But those ceramics wll wear out


given the same use, faster than the wear that bushings cause to the spool's shaft? really? if that were the case, why bother with the entire bearing industry and let's just bush everything.


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

When it comes to friction coefficient, a bearing beats a bushing, hands down. On this, there is no argument.

If you were any good at pinewood derby racing as a kid, you might remember some of the dirty little tricks used to get wheels to spin faster. One of them was cutting grooves in the axles, to reduce the amount of contact on the wheel hub. This is is the same issue you'd run into with a bushing in a reel. To get it to spin even a fraction as well as a bearing, you'd have to reduce the surface contact to the point that it wouldn't be just a simple bushing, anymore. A bearing only has the contact area of one little point X however many balls are in the assembly. (and they theoretically wouldn't all touch at the same time, anyway)

No way a bushing ever beats a bearing for distance casting. There are plenty of applications where they would be superior, but this just isn't one of them.


----------



## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

BeachBob said:


> given the same use, faster than the wear that bushings cause to the spool's shaft? really? if that were the case, why bother with the entire bearing industry and let's just bush everything.


Like i said, each to his own. You can use your fancy Akios reels with 100 dollar ceramics and ill use my abus and bushngs. If anyone wants to discuss it further PM me


----------



## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

NC KingFisher said:


> Like i said, each to his own. You can use your fancy Akios reels with 100 dollar ceramics and ill use my abus and bushngs. If anyone wants to discuss it further PM me


i really don't have a clue where yer coming from in this matter. you make no sense to me at all and yer rap about bushings and revolving spool reels goes beyond what i've known about them since i started using squidders back in the early 1950's. there was, and still is, no contest between a bearing squidder and a bushed jigmaster - imho. 

tell me how, besides cost and perhaps maintenance, a bushed bearing spool is better than a ball bearinged spool for smoothness, speed, durability and longevity? i'm sure i'm not the only one that needs to get schooled. i'm listening, sir ...


----------



## tjbjornsen (Oct 31, 2009)

"i'm listening, sir ... "

We're waiting Kingfisher... the school bell rang, what... 5 hours ago?


----------



## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

This is all else im gonna say. Good bushings in a conventional reel when broke in will definately be more durable and have more longevity. Like i said, if yall wanna say anymore than pm me. Ill just stick to what this stupid ******* knows from knows from now on out since i aint educated enough for nothin lse. It aint like i learned to throw on bushed reels or nothin. Ill discuss these subjects with people who dont blow scientific facts all over the place and can take a joke. And tjorbesen, good one


----------



## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

whatever .... as always, to each their own and ymmv.


----------



## kingfish (Feb 28, 2004)

I fish a bearing in one side and a bush in the other on my pompano abu's, those reels have no mags and one black plastic block about half ground out. Just another way to slow the reel to where it is castable. For years many have said Big Danny casts with bushs instead of bearings. Bearings have to be much faster by design but not necessarily the best for distance casting or fishing, tuning a reel has many variables.


----------



## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

Not tryin to start nothin/dig up old bones/beat the dead horse but..............
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=5868.0


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

NC KingFisher said:


> Not tryin to start nothin/dig up old bones/beat the dead horse but..............
> http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=5868.0


Quote from your topic:



> They both have their place. Flylining live bait or distance casting benifit from bearings, trolling and bottom fishing not so much.


So what part of that do you not agree with? I think it's pretty well spot-on.


----------



## jlentz (Sep 11, 2005)

For overall reliability bushing win no question. For distance especially in a fishing situation I do not think you will gain much if anything from a bearing over a bushing. I have fished bushing and bearing reels side by side and find no noticeable difference in casting distance with bearings. I even swapped out bushing for ceramic hybrid bearings on a reel and actually lost distance. I have some reels with bushings that are nearly impossible to fish at night because they are so smooth. I guess I fall for the hype/sales pitch as nearly all my regularly fished reels have bearings.

John


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

What do your bushings look like? Are they straight bushed, or do they have rounded outer diameters and chamfered lands on the bearing surfaces?

I dare not say you aren't being truthful... But in a factory produced reel, bearings are WAY more forgiving on alignment, which impacts their performance directly. I don't see many fishing bushings, so I'm open to possibilities. With what little experience I have with bushings in fishing reels, I wouldn't choose bushings for distance, but I can't say for sure that I'd be correct. More info, please... Especially if you have brands and model names to drop.

Abu gave up the bushing with the fixed spool axle years ago. If ever there were a statement to be made about cost vs. application, I would have thought that would have been it....


----------



## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

solid7 said:


> Quote from your topic:
> 
> 
> 
> So what part of that do you not agree with? I think it's pretty well spot-on.


That was coming from a long range guy. My 6/0 with bushings has tons better freespool than my 9/0 with bearings. The 6/0 has better freespool than most of my reels. And it has BROKE IN BUSHINGS. Bearings wear OUT. Bushings wear IN. It all depend s on whos fishing them but i personally can cast better with a bushed reel


----------

