# DUCK-IN(g) Out!



## Dixie719 (May 12, 2003)

Well this is it for the old landmark!

Last call this weekend for all of you to go buy one last round. It will be interesting to see how it all turns out here down the road!

Good bye and DUCK-INg OUT!


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## ShoreFisher72 (Jul 13, 2005)

you know you guys cant wait to fish that spot!


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## Dixie719 (May 12, 2003)

I just hope we are still able too, that's my worry!!


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## ShoreFisher72 (Jul 13, 2005)

Dixie719 said:


> I just hope we are still able too, that's my worry!!


i heard something about condos going up there?what a shame.


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## cocoflea (Aug 1, 2002)

in today's Pilot

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=90537&ran=233258


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2005)

That's too bad. I, like many others, liked that that place.


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## fishbone4_14_74 (Feb 7, 2005)

Ya lets hope the do keep that beach open ,, but im keeping my fingers crossed with all these beach closing that has been happening as of late.


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

My guess is that the beach will remain open. You just won't be able to park anywhere near it or cross their property to get to it. 

Tom


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## Custer (Jun 14, 2001)

I hope everyone recognizes the cynicism in Tom's remark.

If we virginians don't get off our dead ass and start fighting for access, we can kiss whats left good bye.

If you don't believe Call Jam or Bob Eakes.

The OBX is shortly to be totally screwed, like we in Virginia have already been.

Yes, I am getting to be a bitter old ass. I hope the "utes" can see the light and get involved. If we are too disorganized to do something about our bay, let's at least get involved in fighting for access where there is some organization, on the only local area we can...the OBX.


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## AndyMedic (Mar 22, 2003)

look for a big ass hummer limo tonight...you see it thats what bar ill be at


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

The cynicism in Tom's voice is well-founded. Last time I was down your way I asked a friend who works at the Duck-Inn about the parking situation. He said parking there will be closed off once the restaurant is done and the new owner will not allow parking by anyone but residents.

We already lost.


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## Dr. Bubba (Nov 9, 1999)

yup, sad ain't it?

time to get active folks. Goggin, Catman, Jake Ace and I are working a petition on the parking issue at the "jetty". Norfolk residents only at this point. And progress is slow at best. Write some letter Please!

Duck Inn beach may be lost, but more is under attack. Get involved!

Help out with OBPA's plight on the banks as well. Get involved.

Once precedents are set, more will fall by the wayside. Wait and see!

or...............

GET INVOLVED!!!


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## johnnyleo11 (Dec 17, 2003)

Check out Wavy 10's Lesner Cam and look at all of the boats that dropped anchor off of Duck In's beachfront.


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## bassassasin (Nov 7, 2003)

You know I was sitting here thinking. We can't do anything about this by ourselves,but if there was a way we could get orginized, say get a local fishing club involved (I happen to know one  ) maybe the leader of that club could get 10 on our side and stop this crazyness.
But in a way it's other fishermen that ruind it for others by leaving trash, old bait and other stuff. grantted most of us clean up after ourselves, I know I do and I teach my LIL ones the same. So....IT'S UP TO US P.H.Y.C.O.s LETS SEE IF WE CAN GET THE MEDIA INVOLVED BEFORE WE HAVE TO HIKE 5 MILES TO FISH. ASSASIN
Fearless Leader Tidewater P.H.Y.C.O.'s


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## Advisor (Jan 12, 2003)

Assassin, we tried! WAVY 10 did a short on the 15th Bay situation. I have personally written letters to the Norfolk City Council and posted those letters on this forum so others could copy them. The result is "Nobody cares"! We are perceived as a small group of scattered people who don't have a worthwhile voting block. I include fishermen, boaters, local beach goers and tourists. 
In my view, one problem is that we, as P&S'ers are actually scattered from North Carolina to Richmond and further. PSYCO is a start in bringing a cohesive group together ... but only a small  start. We need more members. We need to coordinate with other clubs and organizations to draw attention to the problems.

Another problem is that we attack the situation piecemeal instead of in an overall sense. We're not just having a problem at 15th Bay. We're having a problem with access all over Ocean View. We're not just having a problem loosing the "Duck-in" access or the CBBT. We're having a problem with access all along the Virginia Beach Ocean Front.

What we need [Newsjeff are you listening?] is an ongoing concerted effort to create continued  public awareness to the overall situation. I firmly believe that we must  aggressively make it known that our city, state and federal governments are playing favorites and stealing our [all citizens] rightful beach access. We, as a group of clubs and organizations, must go public in a very strong way to be heard. These city "Fathers"  have to 'feel the pressure' before they will take any action.

Sorry assassin, I didn't mean to jump on this so hard. I just have strong feelings on this issue. Not for me or us so much as our children and grand children. Where are they going to be able to enjoy fishing or see a sunset or sunrise or see a dolphin jump or just sit on the beach wherever they want and enjoy life?


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Advisor said:


> Another problem is that we attack the situation piecemeal instead of in an overall sense. We're not just having a problem at 15th Bay. We're having a problem with access all over Ocean View. We're not just having a problem loosing the "Duck-in" access or the CBBT. We're having a problem with access all along the Virginia Beach Ocean Front.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry assassin, I didn't mean to jump on this so hard. I just have strong feelings on this issue. Not for me or us so much as our children and grand children. Where are they going to be able to enjoy fishing or see a sunset or sunrise or see a dolphin jump or just sit on the beach wherever they want and enjoy life?


Advisor, its not only Va Beach. Dont you see the trend here? Look at NC, the one you thought was fine because its "protecting" the birds. Well guess what? The birds are gone and they have not opened it back up to its original open space. Same thing has happened at the inlet. They say its to protect the birds but after each "temporary" closing we have less area to drive.

Whats my point? I like what you are saying about getting organized.But we as anglers have to be united.Because its not just happening here,we are losing the ability to fish all across the country.


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## FL FISHERMAN (Sep 30, 2002)

Very sad, I have only fished that area a few times so I probably don't have as much allegiance as some of you guys but everytime I went I have stopped in there to hang out. A huge loss to us as a whole.


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## Zombie (Jul 26, 2005)

The way this is going you guys May have to change the club name to T.A.C. tresspassing anglers club. That's what I'll be doing (stealth fishin)


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

*Reality check*

The owner of the Duck-In was nice enough to allow us the privilege of parking there. And the new owners probably won't. What did you guys expect? How many of us would actually let the public park on the property if we could afford to own it? Come on. You gotta pick your battles.
You can still park at the Lesner. In a city lot, none the less. How many of you guys actually put money in the box when you park there? You're gonna be really mad if they take city boat ramp and parking lot away. 
Speaking of boats, you guys complaining about the 15 View situation really missed that one. If you were that concerned, you should have went to the city council meeting for the vote. And the public hearing before it reached the council. Maybe called the city manager. You had your chance to speak up, and no one raised any concern. Oh, you didn't know about the meeting? They hid it from you? I've actually heard that. Read the paper. It's in there. Trust me. Then the no parking sings go up and everyone's mad. What, you want Norfolk to change a regulation the council just passed? Come on. 
The more I type the more I realize how PSYCO your complaints are to me. Until you guys start doing something like the OBPA I'll fish alone. 
By the way, join the OBPA. There really is a battle going on down there.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Newsjeff said:


> Speaking of boats, you guys complaining about the 15 Bay situation really missed that one. If you were that concerned, you should have went to the city council meeting for the vote. And the planning commission meeting before it reached the council. Maybe called the city manager. You had your chance to speak up, and no one raised any concern.* Oh, you didn't know about the meeting? They hid it from you? I've actually heard that. Read the paper. It's in there. Trust me.* Then the no parking sings go up and everyone's mad. What, you want Norfolk to change a regulation the council just passed? Come on.
> The more I type the more I realize how PSYCO your complaints are to me. Until you guys start doing something like the OBPA I'll fish alone.
> By the way, join the OBPA. There really is a battle going on down there.


Hmmm, interesting rant there Jeffyboy. 

As far as it being in the paper if you can provide that I know some people that would be very interested. They can't find it and have asked repeatedly for it and guess what? No response.  


Keep up the attitude and you will be fishing alone!


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

> As far as it being in the paper if you can provide that I know some people that would be very interested. They can't find it and have asked repeatedly for it and guess what? No response.


It's called a FOIA request.  
http://foi.missouri.edu/foialett.html#foireq


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## Advisor (Jan 12, 2003)

Well, I guess I've been put in my place. I'll just leave it to those who know better.
Bill


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## RoryGoggin (Jan 6, 2005)

Newsjeff said:


> It's called a FOIA request.
> http://foi.missouri.edu/foialett.html#foireq


BS Jeff - I should be able to search the paper on-line and get any article or advertisement published recently - result of that search? NOTHING.

I should be able to search the City site and get information on the study, etc. - result of such search - NOTHING - except for the city council meeting wherein they rubber stamped the city manager's request (maybe we need to look at that city manager's position? - an official who is NOT elected requesting laws ????? And those requests are just "approved" ???? THIS isn't my idea of democracy or even a republic!)

As for your slandering us for not knowing - a PUBLIC announcement of a PUBLIC meeting should be easy to find - and it isn't. Nobody seems to know when/where it was held...and the signs are WRONG even under the law as it exists - have they been corrected? (hollow laughter here)

Now, you show up at a PSYCO meeting and you will see that it's NOT a political action committee. Don't dump on a duck for not being an eagle. Your comment was uncalled for and not appreciated. 

I'm disappointed, too, that we've not been able to get a decent response from the community. But you've picked the wrong side here, mate. 

I shouldn't have to use freedom of information to find a public notice. I shouldn't have to ask MY CITY COUNCIL to let me know when they screwed me! They should have told me BEFORE giving me the shaft....when they don't - it's rape. And that is what this is - and they will find that they can't get away with it yet. 

As for you, pick a side - don't come here and buddy up and then dump on us.


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## Dixie719 (May 12, 2003)

Boy has this thread been turned in a different direction!

Looking like it's almost time for lockdown if it keeps going.....


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## Advisor (Jan 12, 2003)

Dixie, You are absolutly right. The thread has been hijacked and I'm mostly to blame. I apologise if I have offended anyone. The loss of the Duck Inn will be felt; but the memory will remain.


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## AndyMedic (Mar 22, 2003)

[DELETED] it i was down there friday night picked up a few girls and got [DELETED]...was a good time

Admin note: Watch the language


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## jay b (Dec 1, 2002)

Just another reason to come over to the Dark Side and get a Yak. Absolutely, hands-down the best pair of waders you'll ever own.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Jeff, I don't disagree with you that the new owners can do whatever they want with Lynnhaven. But we don't have to like it. There is a long-standing culture in Tidewater that says the beaches belong to us all, and that is very slowly being eroded. Can we do anything about it in this case? Probably not.

As to trying to console ourselves with the city boat ramp, I don't feel a great privilege in giving the city money to park in a place that was free for decades before they came in and ruined it just so boaters could save two bucks by not having to launch at Bubba's.

Regarding Ocean View, that is absolutely not the purpose of a FOIA. FOIAs are primarily for after-the-fact use--getting at documents, etc., not to find out what the government may do in the future.

It is their responsbility to plainly post public notices in affected areas well in advance of hearings. If we had to use FOIA to find out what they were doing, we'd have to send out hundreds of them a week regarding any possible changes at every single beach.

Mark my words: other waterfront homeowners have learned from Ocean View. Chick's Beach will be the next place to implement resident-only parking.

But all we'll do is sit around and complain and argue with each other until we're all crammed onto one square mile of beach at the oceanfront with all the tourons. (sorry, feeling cynical)


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

> Regarding Ocean View, that is absolutely not the purpose of a FOIA. FOIAs are primarily for after-the-fact use--getting at documents, etc., not to find out what the government may do in the future.
> It is their responsibility to plainly post public notices in affected areas well in advance of hearings. If we had to use FOIA to find out what they were doing, we'd have to send out hundreds of them a week regarding any possible changes at every single beach.
> Mark my words: other waterfront homeowners have learned from Ocean View. Chick's Beach will be the next place to implement resident-only parking.
> But all we'll do is sit around and complain and argue with each other until we're all crammed onto one square mile of beach at the oceanfront with all the tourons. (sorry, feeling cynical)


Flea, I was telling Dog that a FOIA request would be the only way to find WHEN the city advertised the public hearing on 15 View parking restrictions. Just asking for the information isn't gonna get er done. Apparently, there is a conspiracy theory that the hearing was not advertised and/or never held?  
And that's the whole point of my first post. We all need to take a proactive approach when it comes to beach access regulations. Complaining after the the laws are changed is useless.
That's when reading the newspaper could be a great help. But who really reads those things? They are small, hard to read, boring and the one time you miss reading one you end up missing the public hearing notice. And the public hearing. 
Unfortunately, that's how cities do business. Ya don't like it? Maybe they don't restrict beach access in Cuba. Move there.
If anyone out there lives in areas like Ocean View, Chicks Beach, the Virginia Beach Oceanfront and Sandbridge, please join your civic league. I guarantee you the 15th View issue was raised at many civic league meetings long before homeowners got the laws changed. 
Flea is right. Chicks is next. If you live there, please join the civic league. If you can't get to the meetings, get the newsletter that they put out. Find out what neighborhood leaders are planning. That's the best way to find out about upcoming votes on beach access. That way if you don't like the proposed change you have a chance to fight it. Then you can start the petition, post on P&S and we can all get together and raise hell at the hearing. Then go fishing. 
Also, you can usually get each month's city council agenda online. It only takes a few minutes to read - well, most of the time at least. You can learn about public hearings by reading the agenda. Here's this month's agenda for Norfolk.
http://www.norfolk.gov/council_members/CouncilAgenda/docket.htm
See if your city has an email service that lets you know about upcoming issues. Again, here's Norfolk's.
http://www.norfolk.gov/Listserv/
Nothing is this world worth fighting for is ever easy. I'm sorry if I offend some of you. The complaining after the fact just got to me. 
As Bucket says, go fish.


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

I'd like to add a little more to this thread. Hopefully without alienating anyone else. I haven't met many of you. But you all seem like very good people. Dr. Bubba and Advisor, you guys seem like people I would enjoy wetting a line with. 
Let me take a step back. All of us here want to preserve as many of the fishing spots in Tidewater as we can. Flea is right, we need to stick together. 
I was trying to get everyone here to look forward on the issues instead of looking back. I am not the smartest or best person at public relations. I have a bad temper and don't always say or write what is best. Or get my point across the best way possible. 
Let me give you an example of something that I think is very close to what we are dealing with on beach access. Right now there is a grass roots effort to save the Oak trees in Ocean View. Bear with me here. These people have been fighting the City of Norfolk to keep the trees alive every step of the way. The have been to every city council meeting and every planning commission meeting. They even got one of the best lawyers in the area to help them. And to their disappointment, Norfolk city council has voted against them each time the issue has been put on the table. In a sense, they have lost. But they have not given up. If you drive past Ocean View City Park this week, you will see them collecting signatures. From what I understand, they need about 4,000 signatures by Thursday to put the issue on the ballot in the upcoming election. The odds are against them. But they are still trying. 
I guess what I am saying is this. They are fighting what, to me, is a loosing battle. But they have kept up their fight. I hope we can all put our differences aside and do the same when we need to. Maybe we can learn something from the tree people.
Again, I am sorry to all those I have offended. I just hope it not too late to for everyone to accept my apology.


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

Hey ,Jeff.....ya doin ,what ya can do ,and thats more than what I can say ,I'm doin..keep up tha great werk ,an don't let em stress ya out....

great info


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## Dr. Bubba (Nov 9, 1999)

I have to apologize for hijackin this post too.

And, Jeff, I appreciate your help on the 15th view gig. You gave it some wings!

But, The Bay Oaks thing actually ties in, strangely enough. Recently, a study was conducted on open space in the HR area. Norfolk ranked the lowest, and of course, the Bay Oaks controversy was mentioned. Councilman Randy Wright's response was that we had open space in "our beaches", which weren't counted in the study.

So, the City Leaders tout open space in beaches, gentrify OV and Willoughby with higher and higher dollar housing, while making it harder and harder for their citizens who don't physically live there, to actually access the beach. Meanwhile, spending tax money to take care of beach replenishment and breakwaters.

15th View is only the tip of the proverbial iceberg in terms of Norfolk beaches. Dude, we ain't beatin a dead horse, we're trying to keep a precedence from becoming the norm!


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