# Spinning rod vs baitcaster???



## Jeepster (Oct 19, 2004)

I don't understand the difference. I got a deal on a 12' surf that's rated for heavy action. It's not a high dollar getup, but it is all I could afford, and looks like it'll do me fine for awhile. It's a Daiwa Surf Beefstick. I bought a nice used Penn 7500SS spinner to finish the rig.After looking at Daiwa'a web site, I learned that the model # for this rod shows that it turns out its for a conventional reel. I'm not quite ready to make the switch-investment to a decent medium to heavy baitcaster. I use power casts, or at least am learning to, the two I'm working on are the off the ground, and pendulum. So, do I worry about breaking my rod, since my spinner is on the bottom of my rod when I cast? .Or do I flip the whole shebang 180 degrees and cast with the reel on top, like a conventional would cast if placed on this rod? I'm a little 'fused here. Does it make a difference? If so, what is the difference? Thanks


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## aero993 (Jan 19, 2001)

I'm no expert, but I was always told that you can use a bait caster on a rod set for a spinner .But, you couldn't use a spinner on a bait caster. The guides on a bait casting rod are much smaller then those on a spinning rod. Chances are, that the coils coming off spinning reel will be too big for guides set up for a bait caster.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Jeepster (Oct 19, 2004)

I think the guides are kinda small. I guess I'll just have to lose some distance due to the friction of the line trying to get through the guides.


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## ADIDAF (Mar 24, 2004)

*beefstick conventional/spinning reel*

The guides on a conventional rod are usually too small for using a spinning reel. However on the Beefstick I seem to recall the guides being fairly large. You will lose some distance due to line slap and friction on the stripper guide if youre using mono as your main line. You can use Power Pro or any other braided line to reduce the friction and gain some of that distance back. I would suggest using 30lb or higher braid with the 7500SS as it is not the best design for braid. This will help with line twist and wind knots.


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## Jeepster (Oct 19, 2004)

*An uniformed choice*

Boy do I feel dumb. I bought the rod new on E-bay for $41. I thought I was getting a heckuva deal. What I failed to notice was that the rod was listed in the conventional section, as a conventional rod. The rod model # was plainly shown, so the seller didn't use trickery to sell it. I guess I should try to sell it, and get me a spinning rod. I'm just not ready to try a conventional setup, I've used cheap spinners for the 20 yrs I've fished piers and bridges, and have never even thrown a bait casting reel. I've read over and over that conventionals outdistance spinners, so my time to give it a whirl is coming, just not in the near future. The whole surf thing is new to me, money is real tight, and I'm trying to get the most bang for my buck while covering the most water I can.


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## aero993 (Jan 19, 2001)

There are a few spinning reels that will give a baitcaster a run for the money. But, they are rather expensive.


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## Connman (Apr 14, 2001)

Fish it with braided line or lighter mono 12-15lb and you will be fine . Then when you want you can get a conventional reel and keep the rod .Distance will not suffer that much using the spinner. If anyone asked tell them that it was custom built with low rider guides.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

Hey wahts up man. Hate to tell ya but you could have boaght that same rod new from My shop Red Drum Tackle for 28.95. Not a distance stick to begin with. Start with equiptment when looking for distance not line. My question to you is why would you put Sixty dollars of line on a 28 dollar pole...... JAM


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## Jeepster (Oct 19, 2004)

We've got one decent tackle shop here in town, and he is high as can be. I bought Stren extra strength 20 lb mono for the big spinner. I guess that'll do as well as 16 lb. But I've not spooled it up, so I could take it back and get spider wire or something comparable. As I metioned b4, this is a low buck attempt. Wish Ida known about the 28.95 thing, but its a 5 hr drive to your shop, so that kinda puts that in perspective. I guess I'll keep the rod, learn to use it as best I can, then get a conventional for it later. There is no way in this world, or the next that I can afford some of the high dollar distance rods I've seen. To give you an idea, just the thought of a $100 rod is completely out of the question, never mind a trick $300 rod. Thanks for the input, Kevin, Goldsboro NC


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## Jeepster (Oct 19, 2004)

Ok, it's not a distance rod, say like for artificials and lures. I've learned it's a dead stick rod, bait it, get it as far out as I can, plant it in the rod holder, and work my little rods as I wait. Will I have any better succes using a braid on the Penn 7500SS? If so, would spider wire or comparable be a decent choice? Spider wire is available at Wally world for about 10 bucks, not the 60 Jam was talking about. The reel says it holds 250yds of 20lb, 320 yds of 15lb. Does this also apply to braid,or is it strictly talking about mono? I bought it to target big blues, striper, and shark. My oldest son broke my only long rod two weeks ago when he closed a door on it. It was very old and not worth fixing.


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## Sandcrab (Mar 20, 2002)

*Braided line may help..*

As the rod is a conventional, you might get some more distance with your spinning reel if you switch over to 20 lb braided line. I would use it like a spinner with the reel on the bottom. Make sure to use a shock leader or the braid will cut up your hands when making a power cast...


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*High dollar braid*

I would have to agree with Jam. I don't think a 10 dollar spool of 20 lb braid is going to fill a 7500 Penn any more than 10 dollars worth of gas is gonna fill my trucks 46 gallon fuel tank. That thing must hold like 600 yards of 20 lb power pro. I think it would be silly to put power Pro on a reel that big and then turn around an put it on a rod like that. Stick with 20 lb mono. Save your money for a more suitable rod.


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## Sandcrab (Mar 20, 2002)

*Who fills the spool up with all braid?*



surf rat said:


> ...I don't think a 10 dollar spool of 20 lb braid is going to fill a 7500 Penn any more than 10 dollars worth of gas is gonna fill my trucks 46 gallon fuel tank. That thing must hold like 600 yards of 20 lb power pro.



No one fills their reels with all braid as it is too costly. They put the braid over mono backing so you dont need a lot of braid to fill your spool.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

I would always match the reel to the stick, but throwing a baitcaster on a spinning rod wouldn't cause too many problems.

Throwing a spinning reel on a baitcasting rod would.

The large guide on the bottom of a spinning rod has a "gathering guide." It takes the large loops that blow off and pulls them in with minimal friction.

The bigger question is why people still use baitcasters. They blow up on a regular basis, even among experts. I'm a spinning partisan, even with the all-holy, all-mighty red drum. In the end you sacrifice very little distance and gain fewer headaches in the process.

But there is a cult around baitcasters and you will get some nasty reactions from the old salts if you dare to use a spinner for heavy work.

Old habits die hard...


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

i am a spinner guy also...all my salt stuff is spinning except the ones i set out for flatties or use on a boat...i've watched some of the guys with conventionals sling 8 & bait..but they don't get much more distance than i do...i do use them in fresh water for pitching lures...but most of my stuff is spinning also..confidence, i guess...i am really interested in the conventional for the beach, but that is down the road a ways...as for a conventional rod with a spinning reel...i don't think the spine would be right, the eyes are usually set to take the offset of the reel..line slap will really cost you distance...hope this helps..


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## Sandcrab (Mar 20, 2002)

sand flea said:


> ...But there is a cult around baitcasters and you will get some nasty reactions from the old salts if you dare to use a spinner for heavy work.


Flea,

You had to open the box... 

Come on now? Cult? I broke down and bought my first spinning reel (Mitchell Nautil for jetty fishing) two years ago. The last one I purchased was in 1986 (and its still going strong today)..

I think the big advantage is the drags of conventional reels. Most of them have pretty good drags compared to spinning reels. Only exception are the high end spinners with lots of ball bearings. The lower end spinners are not made with quality parts and some have plastic gears...

Sandcrab


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

*I like conventionals*

I'm not sure about cult status.  
But for throwing 6oz to 10oz and a big chunk of bait, I love using conventional reels. 
Mostly, I like conventionals because I can get a little more distance with my casts. The drags are little better than with the spinning reels I own, too. Then again, the spinning reels I own are rather cheap.
Also, I think it's cool to use conventionals. It's a little trickier and they make fishing a little more challenging and fun for me.
I did find a spot near my job to fish in the Elizabeth River. For that, I use a spinner. 
But when I want to spend a long day or night of hard fishing, I grab my heavers and conventionals and hit the sand. 
For me, that's what I like best.
Fishing is personal. It's what YOU like.


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*casting*

To me standing at Cape Point in the dark fishing with a big 8 oz sinker and a spinning reel just wouldn't seem natural. As far as casting 8 oz on a spinning reel as far as I can cast 8 oz on a conventional all I can say is prove it...I really want to see it .. I have heard lots of guys say that before. Either you are one heck of a caster or you really don't have a clue how huge the distance gap is with 8 or 9 oz and bait between the two. I say the gap starts at about 5 oz and grows in leaps and bounds as the weight goes up. If you can cast 8 oz 125 yards or farther with a spinning reel and rod with 20 or 25 lb mono I really do want to see it.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

surf rat said:


> As far as casting 8 oz on a spinning reel as far as I can cast 8 oz on a conventional all I can say is prove it...I really want to see it .. I have heard lots of guys say that before.


Well I'm a bad example. My distance sucks with both.  

I think there is some distance gained with conventionals. And the drag does feel smoother (though the drag on a decent spinner can handle any fish you can throw at it).

I just see the constant blow-ups and headaches with guys who've been throwing them for decades. It reminds me of someone who keeps whacking themselves in the head with hammer and wonders why they have a headache...the trade off just doesn't make sense to me.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

I fish daily with some of you guys when your down C-Dog Creek and some more how many times have you guys seen me blow up. Its not often but does happen. Conventionals will out throw a spinner every time its physics there is no resistance on a conventional. The line peelin off a spinner is resistance on itself.... IMHO JAM


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## creek (Dec 16, 2003)

Blow-ups have a lot to do with casting style. I have never seen JAM blow-up his reel, but he has a very smooth cast that can get him out to where the Drum are. Whitness 3 drum on three casts when no one else was cataching anything.

I tend to try to over power my casts which cause an ocassional blow-up. I also enjoy casting as much as fishing and don't mind the challenge of an ocassional bird's nest.

It comes down to doing what you are comfortable with and can afford.


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*Replace guides*

Just replace the first couple guides with spinning guides. As far as the spine,on a rod that stiff it dosen't matter . I dought they took the time to find the spine on that rod anyway when it was built.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

surf rat said:


> I say the gap starts at about 5 oz and grows in leaps and bounds as the weight goes up. If you can cast 8 oz 125 yards or farther with a spinning reel and rod with 20 or 25 lb mono I really do want to see it.


I have a Tournamag, a Newell 235 and an Abu 7000. My distance with them follows that order. For me, 125yds+ with 8 & bait using the Tournamag demands nearly an edge of disaster cast. It does get a little fluffy!

My real distance setup is a Japanese market Daiwa Longcaster spinner (capable of 33lbs of drag, it's no wimp) on a Breakaway rod. It's loaded with 20lb PowerPro.

I can cast 8 & bait with that setup further and with zero concern about overruns and high siding. My favorite reach out rig is a hand tied pulley with a 200gm (7+ oz IIRC) Breakaway impact lead. That can put a clam foot or neatly cut fillet out 500ft with zero concern for "user error."

Revolving spools do cast further on the distance field and those heaver set-ups sure rule the Point, _but . . ._ 

I would say that for the average guy, in average fishing conditions more effective fishing distance can be attained with a longspool spinner filled with thin braid (and shocker) and a decent quality rod with a sweet spot at 5 - 7 ozs.


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

*Hey SurfRat It Can Be Done*

The Next Time You're In Delaware I'll Be Happy To Show You An 8oz Sinker And A 6in.Shad Body Go 375 And My Weapon Of Choice Would Be A 2pc/1pc Cut down To 12.5ft With A Shimano Baitrunner 6500B Model Loaded With 20lb Berkley Ironsilk.


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*Casting*

If I do I will bring a bag of ice to put your fingers in for the trip to the hospital to have them put back on.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

surf rat said:


> If I do I will bring a bag of ice to put your fingers for the trip to the hospital to have them put back on.


I also heard that if you step on a crack in the sidewalk it will break your Mother's back.

Three layers of athletic tape and a locked down spool protects one's fingers from cutting (except when you hook your surf spike on the backswing of a Hatteras cast; jeez, that was ugly).


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

If You Bring Ice Then You Better Bring Some Beer Too. My Fingers Will Be Fine Since I'll Be Wearing A Leather Work Glove.


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## shaggy (Jun 18, 2003)

Me, I have one conventional (only a Slosh 30), on a Pinnacle Absolute, for the surf, and maybe due to insecurity, or lack of experience, only use it during the day, 'cause figure a birds nest at night is just not worth the trouble. Other rods have Penn 6500SS (Ocean Master), Okuma Avenger 80 (Ocean Master), Penn 7500ss (Daiwa Sealine X) and an Okuma Coronado CD65 (Solaris).

Now, don't know if it's a confidence thing, or just the conventional reel itself I have, but feel more distance with my spinning setup, but still enjoy tossing the conventional during the day.


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*funny guys*

I'm glad to see you have a sense of humor. That's the way you should be when someone dosen't agree with you. I really have no dought you can do what you say. I saw a guy once at cape point that could cast over 100 yds with 8 on a spinner. But it is rare.


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## creek (Dec 16, 2003)

Mark knows of what he speaks, watched him cast in Florida this Spring at Frosty's expo. At that time he also held the US distance casting record for fixed spool. I have not heard of anyone going farther. And he does wear a big leather work glove. I still like my conventional.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

surf rat said:


> I'm glad to see you have a sense of humor. That's the way you should be when someone dosen't agree with you. I really have no dought you can do what you say. I saw a guy once at cape point that could cast over 100 yds with 8 on a spinner. But it is rare.


Mark can certainly bring the goods!

I know he casted over 730 feet with a 150 gm weight just last spring . . . 

Mark, there is also going to be a tourny this Saturday at Fortescue; it's being run by the Fishlanders club. Money for largest and most. It *is* a longcaster's spot. . . A few of us Surf-N-Landers are going, Gary is on the fence . . . Bass in Brigantine you know.


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

*Hey Sgt*

yes i could do that but i need more info such as what time does it start, cost, ect.


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## Connman (Apr 14, 2001)

Mark , how far did you cast the 8 and bait in tournament , seem to recall at or over 550' ?


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*conventional reel question*

This may be a dumb question, but I am curious. I have no problems throwing heavy wieghts(8+oz) with a spinning reel set up, but if I try to throw heavy wights on a conventional reel, I do not seem to have the thumb strength to keep the reel from slipping as I load the rod during the cast. Am I missing something here? LIght weights (say up to 6 Oz) are not an issue for me.


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

Surf Cat said:


> This may be a dumb question, but I am curious. I have no problems throwing heavy wieghts(8+oz) with a spinning reel set up, but if I try to throw heavy wights on a conventional reel, I do not seem to have the thumb strength to keep the reel from slipping as I load the rod during the cast. Am I missing something here? LIght weights (say up to 6 Oz) are not an issue for me.


I had the same problem,esp,when wading on the 2nd bar....my hand would get wet and slip on my spool.I used Cdog's tip,and used a piece of a 10 speed rubber inter tube....just place a small pc on yer thumb,and let er cast.....works all the time....I am looking for some white inter tube,since the black stuff leaves a mark on the mono


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*Inner tube tip*

Nsearch thanks for the tip. I usually use a leather golf glove, which works fine for spinning gear, but isn't cutting it on the conventional reel, esp. as you noted when it gets wet.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

Mark, 

Fishlanders Surf Fishing Club will be hosting an ASAC approved surf tourney in Fortescue on Sat. Nov.20,2004.Entry fee is $20 dollars with a $1 insurance fee. 50% of the proceeds will be rewarded in cash prizes. 

Registration will be 6:00 to 6:45 AM at the fishing area. Fishing will be from 7AM until 1PM, and weigh in will be immediatly afterwards.

Any questions, call George Foreman @ 856-228-3725, or Joe Skelly @856-228-5005​


Nserch4Drum said:


> I am looking for some white inter tube,since the black stuff leaves a mark on the mono


Try your local commercial roofer, There are white rubber membranes for exposed or viewed locations.

It's nothing more than Carlisle or Firestone innertube.


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

*8 & bait*

conn i casted 511, but i wish it was 550

sgt i'm still interested keep me posted.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

*Conn or Mark*

What is the set-up for that simulated 8 & bait; kind of sinker, size and type of wood block, leader length, main leader configuration???

Thanks.

Rod

*For the tourney on Saturday registration is 6:00AM to 6:45AM and fishing starts at 7:00 AM*

My above post (#37) has been edited to remove ambiguity.


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*Markedwards*

What rod did you use for that cast. I take it that it was conventional. I like the Purglas 400-4 for 8 and bait. I have cast most of the rods on the market. The outcast is about the only one I haven't tried.I also like the Straight 8. I am haveing a 400-5 purglas built as soon as the blank arrives.511 feet with 8 and bait sounds world class to me. What lb test line and what lenght leader(hook) ? What type cast was it.


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

Sgt: for the 8&bait casts we used an 8oz pyramid sinker and 6 in sassy shad body with the hookpoint clipped.and the 2 rigs the fish finder rig (min leader length of 3in.) and a one more cast pulley rig. where is the registration for tournament at?

surfrat:the setup i used was an allstar 1508 with a shimano thunnus 16000 loaded with jinkai 16lb test (.33mm) line with an 80lb shockleader.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

Thanks for the info on the rig

Registration is just, see George at the fishing area. Everything is happenng right there, along the bayfront. BTW, Gary said he's coming.


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## australian fishe (Nov 15, 2004)

*aussie casting club*

.
i just found out the comp is this sat.
i wish everybody good luck and tight lines  

reading around the forums there are some champion casters here

here are non commercial casting clubs you might like to look at
to see how we do our competitions in aussie land.

we use mostly conventional and spinning in comp

all clubs
http://search.looksmart.com/p/browse/us1/us317902/us552285/us63743/us581257/us213189/us581449/
nsw
http://www.nswfca.com.au/
wa
http://www.surfcasters.iinet.net.au/DrycastingMain.html

all the rules are listed
they have a 12 year old Mini junior who recently set casting records of
100 metres for 4oz 
97 metres for ...2oz......both no shock leader.
And he's not big for his age. 

The club's distance casting is with "level line", which means the same breaking strain line is used right down to the casting weight, and strong shock leaders are not used. Any breaking strain line can be used, but lighter line means longer casts. Level line promotes the development of technique and a smooth casting style, while shock leaders allow much heavier weights and the caster's strength to be used more. 

Weight categories are up to 112 gram (4 ounce), up to 56 gram (2 ounce), and Artificial Bait, which includes a 100mm length of 13mm wooden dowel to give wind resistance like a bait. 


cheers jack


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