# knock off kayaks



## fish123

I was at Dick's today and saw a kayak with no external discernible between it and a Tarpon 120 Angler. It was $499.99, do you guys think there is any major downside to buying such a kayak? Upon searching around, I also found this:

http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/p...utdoors_WaterSports_Kayaks&cp=4413993.4417832


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## saltrunner

Perception kayaks are made by the corporation that owns Wilderness Systems. So they are using the old model Tarpon molds for the one you see at Dick's. I suspect a lower grade of plastic goes in the mold to make it cheap. 

If price is the key point for purchase then many find those a good value as a starter kayak. However the wet ride due to the design my not be to your liking. Basically you are buying an outdated design not worth much at resale.


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## RAYTOGS

I suggest keeping an eye on craigslist for one of equal value. You can get a better deal and a more quality boat for about the same amount of mulla!!! I sold a tarpon 120 last year that was in good shape for $600, so keep your eyes open and dont get in a hurry.


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## saltrunner

Good point Raytogs. Get yourself a Craigslist notify app for your smart phone to get the first crack at a bargin. Also use paddleswap.com to view CL and Ebay listings within a designated area for kinds of yak stuff for sale.


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## smlobx

fish123 said:


> I was at Dick's today and saw a kayak with no external discernible between it and a Tarpon 120 Angler. It was $499.99, do you guys think there is any major downside to buying such a kayak? Upon searching around, I also found this:
> 
> http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/p...utdoors_WaterSports_Kayaks&cp=4413993.4417832


We just bought the Perception 12.5 and so far am happy with it. The set is more comfortable than I thought it might be. We got it for around $480 with a discount. It will probably be my wife's once I get one (or so she's told me!)
We're getting ready to take it to Hatteras in a week or so and that will be the real test!!


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## JAM

saltrunner said:


> Perception kayaks are made by the corporation that owns Wilderness Systems. So they are using the old model Tarpon molds for the one you see at Dick's. I suspect a lower grade of plastic goes in the mold to make it cheap.
> 
> If price is the key point for purchase then many find those a good value as a starter kayak. However the wet ride due to the design my not be to your liking. Basically you are buying an outdated design not worth much at resale.


They are not the old tarpon molds, I have a 2002 Tarpon and a 2010 Tarpon. Length on both is 12'3 width is different, height is different. Perception has one scupper hole f/r, Tarpon Several, they might pore it Confulence Water sports, but they are different molds.. Similar but different... For another 3 bills you get the real thing... My Tarpons are anything but wet. The older one more so then the newer one.. Good boat to see if ya want to do it or not but I don't know anyone that Owns a Wilderness Systems, that would trade for that Boat, but I bet if you asked anyone with the Perception, would they trade for the wildy, 100% would. 

Perception used to be one of the Hi-End boats. Their boats back in the day were 2 to 4 thousand dollars. And were ultra lite and not made out of roto molds..They experimented with kevlar hulls and what not. 

Don't take me wrong, anything that gets you out on the water, and gets you exercise, is a good thing, Great Starter boat, and I am sure they will sell a lot of them but they ain' the same.. 

JAM


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## wannabeangler

Start cheap, work your way up! No need to spend lots of money on something you may not enjoy! That's what I did. I bought my first yak at DSG and only paid $250 for it. Now I have a WS Ride 135.


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## Ronaulmtd

I decided to go the other route- figured I would like fishing out of a yak and jumped in with both feet and bought a OK Prowler Angler 13 on sale at West Marine for $569.00. Did a lot of reading (and watching You Tube vids) about fishing kayaks that are used in salt water before settling on the Prowler- it isn't a perfect fishing kayak, but none are; all are some sort of compromise between speed, stability and seaworthiness. I wanted something light weight, tough and dependable at a price I could afford- I rigged mine with most of the bell and whistles including fish finder, anchor trolley and scotty rod holders to make it more fishable. After my first outing, I decided to re-rig it based on my ways of fishing- I moved the location of the fish finder from the center location on the multi mount Scotty to the right outside holder and re-located the rod holders. I bought a different paddle, too- my initial aluminum paddle is now my backup spare. Found out a 240 cm paddle was more to my liking than the 230 cm- so from one novice to another, just do it and you won't regret anything but waiting so long to do it in the first place.


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## c.story

$569! That's an incredible price! I would have snatched that in a heartbeat. Good find.


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## ComeOnFish

Fish123,
Tell use where you will fish, species, and your height and weight. If you fish a certain freshwater or protected water, you may not need FF, Rudder, rod holder and Anchor trolley. In this case buy a basic model. You can buy a mushroom anchor and a bundle of cheap polypropylene line (it floats) later if you need to anchor. Simply tie the anchor line on the handle.

Please indicate the names of places you will be fishing. 

joe


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## fish123

ComeOnFish said:


> Fish123,
> Tell use where you will fish, species, and your height and weight. If you fish a certain freshwater or protected water, you may not need FF, Rudder, rod holder and Anchor trolley. In this case buy a basic model. You can buy a mushroom anchor and a bundle of cheap polypropylene line (it floats) later if you need to anchor. Simply tie the anchor line on the handle.
> 
> Please indicate the names of places you will be fishing.
> 
> joe




Upper and Lower James River mostly. My first boat was a Kingfish, not fast enough for me so I am planning on buying a Tarpon. I am going to install a FF, four Monster Rod Holders, a drag chain, camera mount, video camera mount, light, two anchors and a stake out pole.

Also, I'm '5"11 and 162LB.


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## JAM

*I would think twice*

about anchoring to the Handle. That would put you in a Side Too condition, and will roll you in a heartbeat with enough current. I built my no drill anchor trolly for around 20 dollars. Side Too and anchored is not where I ever want to be...

JMHO

JAM


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## jamesvafisher

I would'nt buy a knock off kayak its much to dangerous........lol


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## JAM

*The Knock Offs are fine*

but if you can find a deal, on a left over. Or a slightly used some times you can come out ahead of the game. I see a lot of folks come and go to this Island, they are loaded for bear, but their yaks stay on their roofs. Lots of good deals to be had out there by folks that bought them and don't use them.. Perception has been around for years, I am sure they are safe.. 

JAM


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## jamesvafisher

JAM said:


> but if you can find a deal, on a left over. Or a slightly used some times you can come out ahead of the game. I see a lot of folks come and go to this Island, they are loaded for bear, but their yaks stay on their roofs. Lots of good deals to be had out there by folks that bought them and don't use them.. Perception has been around for years, I am sure they are safe..
> 
> JAM


Yes I was only joking JAM. lol. I just said that because Fish123 was absolutely blasting some 30-50 year old man on a yak in 50' degree water and he was saying how that wasnt safe and how it was natural selection at work or something because he said fifties to cold to be in a river with blue jeans, jacket, and PFD. Guess you needa scuba gear? lol


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## fish123

He was in 45-50 degree water, with 40 degree air and 20MPH wind wearing jeans and a cotton shirt in the middle of the river. Yeah, that's not safe, not to mention he was at least 60 and in an older man it's even worse. I said natural selection is a powerful force that we can see at work everyday. That day was one of those days. Not to mention, jeans just aren't comfortable in a kayak. You don't see Kayak Kevin wearing jeans do you?


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## jamesvafisher

I could honestly care less what Kayak Kevin wears. Nothing against him, the mans a kayak guru.


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## fish123

jamesvafisher said:


> I could honestly care less what Kayak Kevin wears. Nothing against him, the mans a kayak guru.


Not my loss if you don't want to listen to the experts. When you end up in the morgue don't say I didn't warn you.


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## jamesvafisher

it happens. i just think when you insulted that random dude, harsh, you insultin lotso people


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## fish123

jamesvafisher said:


> it happens. i just think when you insulted that random dude, harsh, you insultin lotso people


I didn't insult him. I stated facts about an anonymous man in a photo I took.


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## Too Busy

There are a few perception boats that they make and sell to the "big box" stores. There's the Caster and the Pescador that both go the Dick's.
The Pescador IS the old Tarpon 120 hull. It IS NOT made of a lesser grade of plastic in order to make it cheap enough for the big box. What you have is tooling that has been paid for through a nice production run with a very minor investment to change the brand from W/S to Perception. 

A lot of folks mistakenly think of Perception as a lesser brand in the Confluence portfolio; it isn't. There are some EXCEPTIONALLY good boats in the Perception line. The company also uses Perception to provide a lot of people with good quality entry level boats.

FWIW all of the rotomolded boats; W/S Perception, Mad River, and WaveSport are made at the facility in Easley, SC.


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## ComeOnFish

Fish123,
According to where you will fish immediately and you will fish in the future (such as HRBT, CBBT, I bet), you probably want a full sized kayak (13'+). Don't buy an entry level kayak.
I currently have perception 12.5. P12.5 is OK for your weight class. P12.5 is not a stable kayak. It is vey easy to be turtled compare to Tarpon 120. But if you center your body alway, then you will be OK. I (145#) was on it in 3-4' chops a mile off the shore- Coast-Guard came back to me twice to made sure I was OK. But P12.5 is for protected water. The speed is OK on the calm water. you will get completely wet by wash-over in 1' of waves. And the speed of P12.5 drops in 1' + of wave. 
One day I caught about 40 croaker (at 17-18") but brought only about 15. I did not have a stringer that day. So I kept croaker in the center of P12.5. Everytime the wash-over happened a half of croaker in the center swam away.

I also have Tarpon 140 (2009). T140 was used for my guest (First time kayakers, weight: 140-220#) in 3' chop in the bay. I don't use the rudder. But all my guests used the rudder. They think the rudder on T140 helps a lot in 2-3' chop. Some people don’t use rudder but more people prefer rudder.

If you want to mount many things on your future kayak, you need a 13'+. Look for used kayaks.

I post a video of my T140 on “Need Anchor Trolley Parts” thread. You can see both T140 and P12.5 in the very end of the video:

Joe


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## JAM

No tryin to be a D1ck, but how can the boat be the same, and come from the same molds, if it is different dimentions...

12' Pescador Kayak, 28" Beam, 60lb. Weight, 350lb. 10202778, 10202778 ... Dimensions (L/W/H), 120x15x12. Weight, 60 lbs. MSRP, $799.00 ...

The 
WS Tarpon 120 is 12'3 and the width is different 29 beam, and it weighs 72 pounds.. 

Made in same factory Yes, same boat No..For the 799, I would save a few penny's and get the WS Tarpon.. 

JAM


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## raw1016

I know this thread is old, but for a newbies sake such as myself doing research.....X2 What Too Busy said.....The Perception Sport Pescador IS the same boat as a 2007-2008 Tarpon 120..and a great deal at that. See the specs for yourself

http://www.backcountry.com/wilderness-systems-tarpon-120-angler-kayak-wil0021

http://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_196951_-1?N=581132415


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## JAM

Ya might want to re-read the specs yourself... One boat is 63 pounds and the knock off if 60... ALL Wilderness Systems Tarpon 120's from 2002 to present have all been 12 foot three inches.. The knock off is 12 foot even.. They are similar, but they ARE NOT the same boat.... Again not being a D!CK, but I had my WS and the boat you mention side by side and the differences stand out... Looks close in a picture but the dimentions are different.. Been with Wilderness Boats for the last going on 10 years, there is a reason one boat is 1300 and the other is 499.... JMPO

JAM

PS even the pattern of the scupper holes in the rear section are different...


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## bbcroaker

Heard the saying "You get what you pay fer" back in the 50's and it's still true


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## mmanolis2001

Keep looking on the Internet for sales. Most of the major online kayak sales sites offer killer deals from time to time. In 2009 I got my Tarpon 120 for $600 shipped and last year my Trident 15 for $800 shipped. Good deals are out there for top shelf Kayaks if you have time to wait for the best deals.

Used is also a great savings and most of the time you can get all the accessories needed with the price. When i bought my tarpon (First Kayak) I had no idea how much extra cost is involved in getting on the water. Paddle, roof rack, cart, Life Vest etc, adds up quick. The 600 dollar investment quickly turned into a $1100 dollar one.


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## FishyFingers

I agree, my friend bought his kayaks off c/l for a great deal and they are top shelf. I bought one of mine off c/l and a demo from ARC and didn't pay anywhere near what they are worth. Just be on the look out for the deals and jump on them quickly


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## JAM

*Thats the way to do it guys Used*

With the big BOOM in KAYAK sales over the past several years there are lots of Yaks out there, that were bought "SPUR OF THE MOMENT" type of things "THAT LOOKS COOL I WANT TO DO THAT" and folks lose intrest quick. 

I see lots of brand new shiney, all makes and models KAYAKS come into town every day, and I would say that 80% of them stay on the roofs that they rode in on the entire time the folks are here. 

They never leave the roof racks.. More of a Status Symbol type of thing, I guess..

Lots of great deals out there, I would rather a used Hi end boat then one of the Knock Offs, but thats just me...

JAM


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