# Kerrr Powww !!!



## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

Whenever I used to hear that sound on a pier I would always be the smart-a$$ that yelled out "K-MART". Well tonight I had two of them and both ocurred when I was trying to put some a$$ behind the cast. I was using a 10'6" Tica with a Daiwa Emcast 5500 (I am very pleased with this setup so far). Anyway I am guessing its the shock knot getting caught somewhere. I usually do a single or double uni for my shock knots. I had 17lb sufix tritanium with 40 lb Ande (??) shock leader. 

Is there something I can do to limit this in the future?? I would like to be able to get a little more distance.


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## fish-on (May 12, 2002)

try the albright knot to tie your shock


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

last night I did a bit of research after posting. I see that the most famous shock knot appears to be the bimini twist to get a double line then attach that to a nail knot. Thats a bit too much tying for me when I am in the heat of battle. An alternative to the bimini twist is the spider hitch. 

I will look into the albright knot as well. Thanks. The more I think about it the knot is my problem.

What's everyones favorite knot for connecting main line to shock?


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## Finger_Mullet (Aug 19, 2005)

*Emcast*

I have the exact same set up. When I took the pole fishing the first few times I heard Kerrr-pow several times. On my Emcast you have to have the bail in a certain place or it will slam shut on the cast. I have always lined the bail up with my index finger and held the line, flipped the bail and let her go. With this reel I have had to adjust the way I do things. I have to grab the line before the bail lines up with the rod and my index finger. This prevents the bail closing during the cast. Feels kinda unnatural until you get used to doing it.


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## idpearl (Feb 22, 2006)

I've been using a 5 turn uni knot for years and it serves me well. I used to tie a loose granny knot in the leader and thread the main line through it, but now i melt the end of the leader into a small blob and then tie on the mainline.

It is worth tying a leader knot on some scrap line and then just pulling and pulling until it breaks - just to make sure you're happy with it. Nothing worse than tying a new type of knot and have it pull out when you hook into a good fish. You have to be confident the knot will hold.

http://www.carp-uk.net/knots/shockknots.htm
http://www.sea-fishing.org/modules.php?name=Fishing_Knots
http://www.noreast.com/knots/knotsindex.cfm
http://sportsfish.com.au/pages/fishing/animated-knots/animated-knots.html


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## longcast (Jan 9, 2005)

On a spinner the bigest cause is the coil set into the line. When the cast is released the shock line is (lack of better term) springy, comming off the spool. The running line is not as springy(stiff). The shock knot will go outside the collector guide while the running line stays inside, crackoff. Use of a line relaxent like Reel Magic on the shock leader can help. Also streching the shock line and the first part of the running line helps straighten them both. Use of braid will get rid of most of that problem. So does wetting the shock line & streching.

That is the biggest problem with spinners and big weight. It happens on conventional but not anywhere close to as often as spin.
longcast


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

Thanks longcast. Those are words of wisdom and experience. I had read some threads about using braid as the shock and mono as the main line but most people seemed to be against it. I thought it would be a pretty good idea. 1) it reduces your size difference between the two lines and should produce a smaller knot, 2) braid casts great 3) the weak link is going to be your rig or the shock knot so if you get hung up you can still pop the knot and not break your rod (of course you have to walk straight back with the rod parallel to the ground but thats true on any hang up from a pier/surf)


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

I'd check your tag at the knot, cut it as close to the knot as possible and shorten your shockleader. You only want about 4 wraps and the spool and come out enuf for the drop before you cast. Most people use longer leaders, like 5 wraps around the spool and 2 rod lengths, I don't think that's necessary. You want your shock line to come out of the spool as fast as you can to prevent any hang up on the main line. Just my 2¢. And on conventional or pier fishing is different.


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

Thanks for pointing that out. I used the 5 wraps rule and I could feel that it took longer for the shock knot to pass through the first guide. I used to use a shorter one (but too short I think). I will shorten up so that is wrapped at least 1 to 2 turns after I have set my drop length for the cast. 5 turns is probably better for a conventional


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## Samurai (Nov 24, 2005)

cygnus-x1 said:


> Thanks longcast. Those are words of wisdom and experience. I had read some threads about using braid as the shock and mono as the main line but most people seemed to be against it. I thought it would be a pretty good idea. 1) it reduces your size difference between the two lines and should produce a smaller knot, 2) braid casts great 3) the weak link is going to be your rig or the shock knot so if you get hung up you can still pop the knot and not break your rod (of course you have to walk straight back with the rod parallel to the ground but thats true on any hang up from a pier/surf)


I think longcast was reffering to using braid as the main line.Maybe he can clarify.Braid would not coil like mono would causing the line to go straighter through the guides following the shocker and not going outside of the collector guide.---If you do try the braid as the shocker,use a Cannon or tape your finger.


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

longcast ... the mention of braid in the context of shock line made me think you were talking about using it as a shock leader. Could you clarify please?

I am already spooled with new 17lb sufix tritanium so I would rather look for a shock knot / leader solution. Maybe I can get some sufix 40lb for shock leader. Its real slinky and limp. Would that be good?


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## Black Beard (Jan 25, 2001)

This is the standard leader knot used in the UK

http://neilmackellow.sea-angler.org/knot5.html

Followed by the stronger version that I use all the time for fishing

http://neilmackellow.sea-angler.org/knot6.html

And finally the spider hitch

http://neilmackellow.sea-angler.org/knot4.html

Good luck - BB


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*What Neil said*

I use the first knot Neil showed 90% of the time and the second one the rest of the time. Mark Edwards showed me the knots.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

I use the spider to no name and it is small enough that I have no problems using it with my levelwinds.


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## sprtsracer (Apr 27, 2005)

Well, not being as experienced as the rest, but still being in the "heat of battle" a few times (but not as often as I'd like) I use a double uni-knot. I did experience a couple of kerrrrr-plows myself the other evening, but as stated above, it was due to my bail slamming shut prematurely...uh...shall we call it "premature ecastination"? Anyway, I lost two Got-Cha plugs within the space of 10 minutes. That ticked me off. I was going pretty light in the Halifax River using an Abu/Garcia 774 with 12 lb Flourocarbon and Ande 25 lb leader. It was due solely to the bail and not the line or the knot, I'm certain. After the second time, I just made a mental note to be a little more careful lining up the bail before casting. On my conventional ( Jigmaster 500 that I magged myself) I have never had a problem with a Crack-off, nor has my Penn Captiva (8000) ever malfunctioned. I just wish they made the Captivas with more metal and less plastic (Specifically the back {heel} of the reel). It's one heck of a reel for the price, even if it IS made in China. I think the uni is probably the best all-around knot and it can be used in a lot of situations. Not that hard to tie, and still has around 95%+ knot strength. JMHO.


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

slim beauty knot works for me...


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## longcast (Jan 9, 2005)

clairety, on a spinning reel, the coil of the line from the spool it came off of is what causes 2 problems with shock leader/knot. When you do BB's first shock knot the spool curl in stiff shock line can go outside the collector on a cast, crackoff. When you do the second, it is much worse. Back to back knots do not hangup near as bad as a double knot setup.
I used to use spinners, I would go through pounds of sinkers a day drum fishing. I used the best reels Penn 704/ 706, Crack 300, Diawa 7000, custom heavers Ande & Stren line everything, bimminis, spiders surgens, blood, uni, whatever. I practiced off season & all that stuff before it was cool.

With double knots the stiff coils of the shock leader would cause it to send one of the double knots to the outside of the collector guide. It happened every few casts. The more the cast counted the more it would hang. The single pair knots, back to back, worked best but still hung.

Braid shock reduces this, but it causes other problems. Ripped open fingers is one. A cannon fixes this. The other is the poor abrasion resistence, on the other hand, causes the other. Where the sinker slider hits the fishfinder knot coupled with sand makes a dangerous problem, you don't know when it will fail.

I changed to conventional in the early '80's because of the crackoff stuff with spinners. The coil from the spool is still there, but the revolving spool helps guide the line into the collector.

Reels with a levelwind have a problem also. the type of line guide matters. There are 2 types, post with a hole for the line & wire form. If you run the reel a little loose(2-5 coils fluffing up) the post going back & forth can snag into a fluffed coil. The size of the hole is/can be a problem. The size of the shock knot(thickness) can hang in the hole if the spool is real full. A wire guide does not have these problems.

If there was a way to put a slight amount of preasure to the line as it leaves the spool on a spinning reel, when cast, without causing to much friction could make a spining reel so it would not throw it's loose coil outside the collector on a cast. Maybe rubberbanding a playing card to the spool flange, but that would get in the way of retrieve, would work. Kind of like thumbing the line right after release on conventional.

There are a lot of spinner drum fishermen out there. How often do you crackoff your shockleader? When I used a spinning reel all the reels had wide spools, the wider the better. Do the narrower spools help?

B.B., can you add to this, since I'm useing your knots to talk about the problems I see, or saw.


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## longcast (Jan 9, 2005)

To add to the above.
I now use a tapered leader, 18lb-80lb. I tie uni/uni with 17lb running line. It is expensive but works, I cannot hear the knots passing through the guides. I retie both the uni's & knot at the fishfinder often. I don't toss away hardly any tackle anymore. It is a shame nobody on this side of the pond sells tapered shock leaders, I get mine from the UK. The tapered leader works very well on my spinners, when I use back to back knots. It also works well with the braids.
longcast


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

Very interesting information. I do like the sound of the tapered leaders. I may investigate that at some point. Do you get them from a particular manufacturer or is it sold off eBay?

In the meantime would a soft and supple shocke leader answer the call? The Sufix Tritanium line I use is real slick and soft and if I can find it in 40-50 lb which I think is doable I could use it. It does not seem to stiffen up much. Also I will try and remember to stretch it and wet it before I cast. My problem (as with many anglers) is that when they see the water they want to get in as soon as possible and that can cause the problems. I do notice that the longer a shock has been used the better it seems to perform (hence the wet and stretched theory).

I chose the Emcast / Emblem line as I heard that is one of the premiere reels for surf casting (for the price that is). Them boys across the pond seem to love 'em for carp fishing. It has a wide spool so that the depth of the spool is limited which can hamper the line as its comping off the spool in the middle and latter stages of a cast. So by switching to this reel I may have traded distance for more crack offs =)


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## longcast (Jan 9, 2005)

I get um from Veals in the U.K. google it for the www. They are made by Varivos(sp). I have thought about, but never done, premeasuring lengths of shock & soaking them or keeping them in a baggie with a very wet paper towel. A well used leader does get limp, it also looses it's outer finish. I have always used Ande clear for shock, I guess I'm lazy, since switching to conventional & then tapered shock, nothing else needs to be done.
longcast


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## eklutna (Mar 12, 2006)

Very interesting information about the tapered shock leaders. I did not know that anyone made such a thing. I would like to know what would be the best choice material for (other than tapered) shock leader material balancing out price and strength. I hope that this question is not too far off the subject.


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## david123 (Jun 24, 2004)

*knot*

I've been using the Albright knot with good results. Tried the Bimini Twist and found it to be a pain to tie. 

For Shock Leader with braid, some folks use the 30 LB running line and 65 lb braid shocker. Knot is very small.


elkutna-Right now I am using Cajun Line mono in 50 LB test. Like the red color and the line quality seem good. The red is supposed to disappear in three feet of water.


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