# Reel "RE-BRANDING" - A Fascinating Read !!!



## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

This article discusses reel "RE_BRANDING" . . . A fascinating read from Alan Hawk's website . . . ENJOY ! ! !

*http://www.alanhawk.com/blog/rebdd.html*


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## RobVB (Mar 17, 2012)

Here's another interesting read:

http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/cny65.html

According to this review the Canyon DJR 6500 is essentially the same as a few other reels. It definately makes you skeptical of many of the great engineering claims made by the various reel companies.


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## BigWillJ (Jan 21, 2001)

I've always been under the (years old) impression that there were a handul of manufacturers who made fishing reels for several different brand name companies. Different brand names coming out of the same shop is perfectly legal, and was never a big deal. Not sure how that compares to this "re-branding" article, because I didn't read it....too long for my attention span.


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## RobVB (Mar 17, 2012)

The articles don't find any fault in the manufacturing sources or processes. It's how the companies market the reels that is being highlighted. It's the deceptive claims about engineering advantages, superior materials and unique sources that is a cause for skepticism. They all appear to be guilty.


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## joemullet (Dec 20, 2005)

take a look at tire companys, been doing the same for years or you didn't know, reel companys in japan and korea do this all the time, have been and will do


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## pods (Sep 10, 2013)

I looked at Ali Baba last summer when looking for a handful of beater reels for family to use at the beach. Just could not take a chance at what was offered, but I did see reels that were very similar to branded ones, for a fraction of the cost. 
The Canyon piece was great. Even had the pics with weights. 
Buyer beware.


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

*http://www.leadfishingreels.com/sdp/718380/4/pl-3737584/0-2677159/LT_SERIES.html*

Company that makes the "Canyon" reels . . .


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

Interesting . . .

An "reply" to the "evidence" . . . He keeps "dancing", faster & faster - LOL !

*http://www.njfishing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56867*


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## RjTheMetalhead (Dec 3, 2011)

Penn Fierce, Battle and Conflict are just rebranded Pflueger reels...
Cabelas and Bass Pro reels are always a rebrand.


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

RjTheMetalhead said:


> Penn Fierce, Battle and Conflict are just rebranded Pflueger reels...
> Cabelas and Bass Pro reels are always a rebrand.


Who are the "Pflueger's" made by ?


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## RjTheMetalhead (Dec 3, 2011)

Some poorly paid bastards in China.


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## Benji (Nov 19, 2014)

ez2cdave said:


> Who are the "Pflueger's" made by ?


Illuminati?


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## RobVB (Mar 17, 2012)

ez2cdave said:


> Who are the "Pflueger's" made by ?


http://www.haibofishingreel.com/


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## Kellercl (Jan 28, 2010)

Re-branding is pretty common is various industries. I believe appliances are very guilty of this. I can't tell how many products I've helped companies release to market where all we did was change the label and container, in regards to the flavor/food industry. More often than not products that are "extreme" are the same product with a new label. Best part being is when people swear said product is a huge improvement.


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## RjTheMetalhead (Dec 3, 2011)

Craftsman ain't never made a single screwdriver. ...


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## Benji (Nov 19, 2014)

A Mazda B series truck is essentially the same as a Ford ranger, and a Isuzu hombre is the same as an s10 or a gmc s15.....


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## RobVB (Mar 17, 2012)

I wish this:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/CABELAS-SALT-STRIKER-SURF/1920430.uts

was the same as the Daiwa Emblem Pro Ex.

However, it appears to be more similar to the Emblem Pro-A.

Still a good deal if you can get past the name.


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

An interesting SOL thread from 2007 . . .
*
http://www.stripersonline.com/t/527537/reel-talk-whos-making-what-for-who*

A QUOTE from the thread . . .

"What I know so far (corrections welcome)

Penn: All Penn spinners are now made overseas, no exceptions. most Penn conventionals are US made, only the very lower end conventionals are made overseas

Cabelas: Most (all?) Cabela Branded reels (spin or conventional) are variations of either Daiwa products or Quantum products

Bass ProShops: BPS branded stuff is made by Pinnacle

St. Croix: Spinning and conventional reels, re-branded Daiwa gear

Abu Garcia: All conventional Abu's sized 6500 and under are Swedish made, anything over a 6500 is made offshore (Taiwan?) but "assembled in Sweden"

Okuma: Okuma is a major OEM for reels, spinning and conventional, which is why I chuckle when some guys talk about what "Junk" Okuma is, They may own 1 or 2 and love them

Tica: Also a large OEM

Pinnacle: OEM as well

Daiwa: Makes some models (or names some models specificaly for stores like Dick's, Sports Authority etc...)

What does any of this mean? Nothing really... I just find it interesting, and I like to know what I am getting.

Does the origin of the manufacture really make any difference (beside psychological) Is a Chinese reel "better" than one made in Indonesia Vs. Made in Japan, Vs. Made in the USA, Vs a Swiss made reel?

Food for thought and discussion?

END QUOTE :


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## Kellercl (Jan 28, 2010)

ez2cdave said:


> An interesting SOL thread from 2007 . . .
> *
> http://www.stripersonline.com/t/527537/reel-talk-whos-making-what-for-who*
> 
> ...


Does Shimano do any re-branding?

Edit
Okuma worth checking out? I've never tried them, I'm looking for a spinner to pitch 2 oz cobia jigs.


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## Elgreco (Aug 12, 2014)

The origin doesn't matter as much as the quality control. I am pretty big into pocket knives. I have mostly spyderco knives with a few kershaw here and there ranging from $20-$200. Spyderco is based in golden colorado and makes knives in the US, taiwan, japan and china. Quality goes taiwan=usa>japan>china. I have some spyderco and kershaw chinese made knives that are higher quality than a lot of other brands US made knives.


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## RobVB (Mar 17, 2012)

Kellercl said:


> Does Shimano do any re-branding?


If anyone finds a less expensive, re-branded Shimano Spheros SW, let me know!
;-)


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

RjTheMetalhead said:


> Some poorly paid bastards in China.


Probably truer than we would like to know . . .


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## pods (Sep 10, 2013)

I think my biggest problem with re-branding is that it ruins the "you get what you pay for" rule of thumb. It makes it that much more difficult to find a product that is valuable. I have no problem with stuff being made in China per se, but have a problem with a reel that is selling for 3-4 hundred and touted as being of high quality materials when in reality it is the same off the shelf OEM reel that can be bought for $50 bucks. That and the touting of how fantastic they are in hopes to get us fisherman to part with $400 bucks. Let's face it, a lot of us have a fixation with "stuff" and love a good yarn.
On the other hand, finding these OEM reels for a fraction of the brand label price can be a nice way to save money.


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

Kellercl said:


> Does Shimano do any re-branding?


*http://www.fishing-things.com/sephia-shimano.php*


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

*http://forums.tackletour.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=56565*


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

Kellercl said:


> Does Shimano do any re-branding?



*http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/stats.html*


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## Kellercl (Jan 28, 2010)

" In real life if a sponsored person gives you a recommendation you will most likely know that he's sponsored, but online it's much harder to tell. A shill can only reach a small number of people in face to face encounters, but on the web his reach is exponentially bigger. You would never really know, so just use common sense and learn to always question things that are told to you."

That is an excellent point and one of the reason I don't take a single person's word for it. I try to get an overall consensus from multiple sources. Thanks for the links, excellent reading material.


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## Mastrbaitr (May 7, 2014)

Welcome to the world of sales and marketing.


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## bronzbck1 (Jun 13, 2007)

There is more to it than just branding. Company's have these different reels made to THERE specifications that are different from one company to the next. They may look the same but materials that are used is the big difference in most. Example- a stainless steel bearing or the cheaper metal bearing. You can't see it in a Cabelas catalog or just looking at the reel side by side. It's done in everything like battery's, tires, lawn mowers, the list goes on and on


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

Kellercl said:


> Thanks for the links, excellent reading material.


Anytime . . . An "educated fisherman" gets the best "bang for the buck" !

Tight Lines !


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## RobVB (Mar 17, 2012)

bronzbck1 said:


> There is more to it than just branding. Company's have these different reels made to THERE specifications that are different from one company to the next. They may look the same but materials that are used is the big difference in most. Example- a stainless steel bearing or the cheaper metal bearing. You can't see it in a Cabelas catalog or just looking at the reel side by side. It's done in everything like battery's, tires, lawn mowers, the list goes on and on


This may be true to a certain degree, but you can't blindly assume it. Here's another pretty interesting read regarding a Cabelas' reel that has been rebranded:

http://www.stripersonline.com/t/789805/penn-fierce-vs-penn-battle

It's a lengthy thread and it takes some time to develop. But, the gist of it is that someone chimes in that he has purchased essentially a Penn reel for half the price. Everyone initially thinks it's impossible that it could be equivalent due to the store name and price. But later on someone starts to break one down and shows pictures. It's funny how the people gradually begin to convert and realize that perhaps even Penn can be guilty of hype. 

The point is, all of these reels are made by a few chinese and other asian companies.Most of these reels that are under $200 are essentially designed to be disposable This is especially true once they're out of warranty. And, if you read enough of Alan Hawk's reviews, you begin to realize that all of these companies misinform and deceive. However, I would give Penn a nod here... their reels are simple to maintain, parts are inexpensive and fairly easy to get. They also have great customer service.

One thing I have started to realize is that among the name brands, there's a large gap between the sub-$200 reels and the $650-$1,200 reels, at least for saltwater gear. There really isn't a lot of choices if you're looking to upgrade from a $200, re-branded reel.


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## Kellercl (Jan 28, 2010)

RobVB said:


> This may be true to a certain degree, but you can't blindly assume it. Here's another pretty interesting read regarding a Cabelas' reel that has been rebranded:
> 
> http://www.stripersonline.com/t/789805/penn-fierce-vs-penn-battle
> 
> ...


I've never had the luxury of owning one but I've been told Van Staal is the way to go for high end reels. They are suppose to be indestructible.


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## BigWillJ (Jan 21, 2001)

RobVB said:


> ....One thing I have started to realize is that among the name brands, there's a large gap between the sub-$200 reels and the $650-$1,200 reels, at least for saltwater gear. There really isn't a lot of choices if you're looking to upgrade from a $200, re-branded reel.


Related to that is this real life observation......when I was casting in competition, us competitors would learn how to "improve" our reels. Among other things, and whether by hype or otherwise, we would replace existing bearings, and also add bearings where they didn't exist. Coincidentally, it seemed an industry developed for these aftermarket improvements, at least here in the States, and not to be confused with the Brits being ahead of us in that industry. Reel manufacturers also seemed to catch on to this "niche" market, and apply it to the general population of anglers. They would add a bearing worth a few dollars, and raise the cost of a reel exponentially. That's a simplistic view of a more comprehensive marketplace, but look where that market is today. You said it!
BTW, I re-branded my car today by washing it, and it runs much better now!


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## BigWillJ (Jan 21, 2001)

bronzbck1 said:


> There is more to it than just branding. Company's have these different reels made to THERE specifications that are different from one company to the next. They may look the same but materials that are used is the big difference in most. Example- a stainless steel bearing or the cheaper metal bearing. You can't see it in a Cabelas catalog or just looking at the reel side by side. It's done in everything like battery's, tires, lawn mowers, the list goes on and on


Another example. Some time ago I purchased two Okuma 30 spinning reels. After very little use, the plating on the handles started to flake, and the plastic reel reversing cap wasn't holding well. Called Okuma and they replaced those parts free of charge. Haven't used those reels for a while, but the replacement parts held up a lot longer than the cheaper original parts. Where I bought the reels was discussed, but won't be discussed here, or privately.


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## Kellercl (Jan 28, 2010)

I have zero idea if this is true or not, the 'information' came from a Charter Captain in the Captiva area. He told me the Fin Nor Spinners are prototypes for Shimano. Meaning they are Shimano hardware for $100, Fin Nor reports back issues from customers, Shimano makes adjustments and releases $200+ reels.


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## John81 (Apr 24, 2007)

Kellercl said:


> I have zero idea if this is true or not, the 'information' came from a Charter Captain in the Captiva area. He told me the Fin Nor Spinners are prototypes for Shimano. Meaning they are Shimano hardware for $100, Fin Nor reports back issues from customers, Shimano makes adjustments and releases $200+ reels.


LOL i heard it all now.


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## Kellercl (Jan 28, 2010)

John81 said:


> LOL i heard it all now.


Yeah, I hear so much on the web and in person, Lord knows how much of it is true. I will have to say I did spend some time with a Fin Nor Inshore and was absoultey blown away. Alan Hawk did a review of the Lethal and was apparently equally as blow away. I fished with one an entire day and caught 50+ fish, I would have sworn it was a $300 reel. I was stunned when I found out it was $130.


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## QBALL (Jun 26, 2014)

kellercl said:


> does shimano do any re-branding?
> 
> Edit
> okuma worth checking out? I've never tried them, i'm looking for a spinner to pitch 2 oz cobia jigs.


i specificaly spoke with mr tyler of tyler tackle in chesapeake beach about this last weekend. i was leading toward PENN reels. He recommended the okuma trio bf 55. Now that ive read up on them all last week im thinking if this reel stands up to what ive been told and read then ill have no issues getting the 80 or 65 reels. Cant wait for tests to begin this spring on stripers !!!!


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## kurazy kracka (Oct 14, 2008)

i've been looking at giving a cabelas salt striker reel a shot. cheap and could make a decent backup.


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## RjTheMetalhead (Dec 3, 2011)

Finnor (along with Van Stall) is owned by Zebco... I highly doubt that they are Shimano prototypes.


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

So, here's an "inevitable" topic of discussion about re-branded reels . . .

Among the re-branded reels, who is the "best of the worst" and which makes & models are the best buy ???


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

ez2cdave said:


> *http://www.leadfishingreels.com/sdp/718380/4/pl-3737584/0-2677159/LT_SERIES.html*
> 
> Company that makes the "Canyon" reels . . .


Not that I was in the market for a new budget spinner, but when I saw this pic advertising a nice yellowtail in the link above, I shook my head. What the angler do? reel upside down? Seriously? Remedial marketing? or remedial add?


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## cooper138 (Aug 8, 2012)

is that ad real? besides the rod and reel being photo shopped in i think the guy is cropped in as well or he walking on water?


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## John81 (Apr 24, 2007)

AL_N_VB said:


> Not that I was in the market for a new budget spinner, but when I saw this pic advertising a nice yellowtail in the link above, I shook my head. What the angler do? reel upside down? Seriously? Remedial marketing? or remedial add?


 It's on a conventional rod


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## Benji (Nov 19, 2014)

Funny thing is I've seen combo's like that on the rack at wallmart


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## bronzbck1 (Jun 13, 2007)

You guys are talking your selfs into buying junk. Amazing opcorn:


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## Elgreco (Aug 12, 2014)

We should get a list of what parent companies own which brands.


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## RobVB (Mar 17, 2012)

bronzbck1 said:


> You guys are talking your selfs into buying junk. Amazing opcorn:


Maybe.... maybe not. I actually bought one of the Cabelas Salt Striker Metal reels when they were available. They were being discontinued and was purchased for $30. I've broken down and maintained quite a few Battles, Fierces, Spinfisher V's and this one Cabela's reel. I am 100% convinced that the internal components including the gears and sealed bearings are the same as the Battle and Fierce. However, the spool was a bit smaller and actually had the same capacity of a similar sized Shakespeare reel. 

The Cabela's reel that I linked to above is very likely the same internally as the Daiwa Emblem Pro-A. Externally it is also very likely the same except for the obvious cosmetics. The Cabela's ad even refers to its "Digigears" just like the Daiwa.

I've actually come to believe that the name brands actually INFLATE their claims and rely on their past reputations to justify their higher prices. I think these re-branded, store brand reels are more like generic goods. They're made by the same manufactures, but you're not paying for the marketing and the name (and possibly future customer service). The exceptions would be their top of the line and possibly second tier products such as the Stellas, Saltigas and Torques.


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## RjTheMetalhead (Dec 3, 2011)

Penn, Abu, Berkeley, Shakespeare, and Pflueger are all owned by JArden of Sweden. 

Fin-Nor, Van Stall and Quantum are owned by Zebco.

Shimano fishing is tiny compared to Shimano's bicycle and other sporting goods. Same goes with Daiwa... they have been attached to massive corporations since the start while the others are conglomerates that were slowly brought together. 

Avet, Accurate and Release are all independent as far as I can tell. All 3 make made in USA machined conventional reels.


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## Elgreco (Aug 12, 2014)

I just googled that jarden company. They literally own like 100 companies. For fishing they also own Berkeley, stren, spiderwire and ugly stick.


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

Elgreco said:


> We should get a list of what parent companies own which brands.


That is an EXCELLENT idea . . . !!!


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## Kellercl (Jan 28, 2010)

bronzbck1 said:


> You guys are talking your selfs into buying junk. Amazing opcorn:


Maybe, maybe not. Price and quality aren't always correlated. I recently bought a Quantum Smoke for $180, the $80 Shimano Symmetre I bought my nephew is better. So is the Fin Nor $130 Inshore.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

bronzbck1 said:


> You guys are talking your selfs into buying junk. Amazing opcorn:


I have to agree with this....Come on guys....


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

Just curious kellercl, what are you going by to compare the newly purchased Quantum to the Shimano/Fin Nor ...... River


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## RobVB (Mar 17, 2012)

AbuMike said:


> I have to agree with this....Come on guys....
> 
> View attachment 14664


I can only speak for myself, but...

This isn't about justifying the purchase of cheap reels, but rather sifting through the BS to find the best value. As I've stated before, for under $200, I still believe the best value including features, price and customer service is the Penn line. 

However, I've been searching for a while now for a reasonably priced ($200-$400) upgrade that includes quality gears and drag with some durability for the beach. As shown above, you can't trust most of the marketing.

As is typical.... time will tell.


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## Kellercl (Jan 28, 2010)

River said:


> Just curious kellercl, what are you going by to compare the newly purchased Quantum to the Shimano/Fin Nor ...... River


Mainly smoothness at the moment. The Quantum is disappointing in that regard, for $180 I expected more. God as my witness my 5 year old Baitrunner that has been dropped in saltwater twice is smoother than the Quantum is brand new out of the box. My one hope with the Quantum is durability, it seems to be built tough, but I can't verify given it is only a few months old. My final judgement is still on hold until further time on the water is completed.

*the much cheaper Symmetre is also smoother

Edit
For pitching lures, which is constant casting and retrieving, I just value smoothness. So if I were going to buy a lure based reel it wouldn't be the Quantum Smoke, which unfortunately I bought specifically for pompano jigs. I know many here disagree with me but for throwing a lot during the course of the day I recommend Shimano period. They can't be matched in smoothness. As for pitching bait, smoothness isn't as important, given the bait sits there for 10-15 minutes (if not more). However as far as I am concern the Quantum has nothing over a Fin Nor Lethal, which is almost half the price. Pitching baits go with a Fin Nor Lethal, I agree with Alan Hawk's review, for the money that reel is beyond impressive.


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## boomer (Jul 1, 2009)

I have several older Penns that have been great with great service, some that I have had for 30 + years . Back then when you bought Penn reels you also bought a parts and service department. If a penn messed up you could get parts to fix it. That is why I paid more for a reel with a penn name on it. I knew that I could get a LIFETIME of use out of it if I took care of them , which made the cost of the reel only a few dollars a year. But now most Penns as well as others are imports with the brand name on it. No parts nor service in most cases, so if I am going to buy reels at Penn prices and get less of a reel why shouldn't I look to compare reel for reel. I have started buying reels based on price and function rather on name brand. My Ocean Master reels from BPS have lasted for for several years and look like I may get several more out of them. Only problem is not parts nor no service, but neither does the any of the other import reels , no matter what name is on them. Junk is junk no matter whose name is on it.


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## Fish Hunter (Jul 31, 2002)

Kellercl said:


> Maybe, maybe not. Price and quality aren't always correlated. I recently bought a Quantum Smoke for $180, the $80 Shimano Symmetre I bought my nephew is better. So is the Fin Nor $130 Inshore.


Well, I humbly disagree with you on this one. The Quantum I purchase for trout, has been far smoother than any Shimano Symmetre I own, even the older ones. It's finish is holding up well and its been used on the yak, so it has gotten wet a time or two.


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## Kellercl (Jan 28, 2010)

Fish Hunter said:


> Well, I humbly disagree with you on this one. The Quantum I purchase for trout, has been far smoother than any Shimano Symmetre I own, even the older ones. It's finish is holding up well and its been used on the yak, so it has gotten wet a time or two.


To be clear I am specifically talking about the Quantum Smoke for saltwater. Given it is the only Quantum I have experience with I am not making claims about their entire lineup. Just that specific reel. My mistake if I wasn't more clear about that in my earlier posts.

*Model: SL25PTS

The quick and easy test I do is put the reel handle/arm at 11 o'clock and see if it falls forward on it's own, without giving it a push. The Shimano does, the Quantum Smoke absolutely does not. It doesn't even go at 9 o'clock.


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## kurazy kracka (Oct 14, 2008)

boomer said:


> I have several older Penns that have been great with great service, some that I have had for 30 + years . Back then when you bought Penn reels you also bought a parts and service department. If a penn messed up you could get parts to fix it. That is why I paid more for a reel with a penn name on it. I knew that I could get a LIFETIME of use out of it if I took care of them , which made the cost of the reel only a few dollars a year. But now most Penns as well as others are imports with the brand name on it. No parts nor service in most cases, so if I am going to buy reels at Penn prices and get less of a reel why shouldn't I look to compare reel for reel. I have started buying reels based on price and function rather on name brand. My Ocean Master reels from BPS have lasted for for several years and look like I may get several more out of them. Only problem is not parts nor no service, but neither does the any of the other import reels , no matter what name is on them. Junk is junk no matter whose name is on it.


 i had my SSV 4500LL rear drag knob jam up and talked to a Penn rep on SOL. he said send it on in to them up in Philly and they would take care of it. 1.5 week turn around including shipping. can't complain there. That service alone will keep my business.


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## Mastrbaitr (May 7, 2014)

kurazy kracka said:


> i had my SSV 4500LL rear drag knob jam up and talked to a Penn rep on SOL. he said send it on in to them up in Philly and they would take care of it. 1.5 week turn around including shipping. can't complain there. That service alone will keep my business.


Plus one. Another good thing is that the internals are interchangeable for higher performance upgrades.( ie.battle gen 1 conversion to conflict)


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## Fish Hunter (Jul 31, 2002)

Same reel here as well. IMHO, the smoke is one of the best small reels I have used in the last 55 years. So, much so, that they will be the only reels on my trout rods from now on. Even over the Stradics. Just like I prefer my Loomis 844 over other trout rods I own. Its a matter of personal preference in lots of cases. The Penn Conflicts also feels solid to me, particularly for its price. Smoother than my couple of Battles. I do have an older Sargus on a small surf rod and its still like butter.


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## Elgreco (Aug 12, 2014)

Mastrbaitr said:


> Plus one. Another good thing is that the internals are interchangeable for higher performance upgrades.( ie.battle gen 1 conversion to conflict)


You pay $40 more for 2 more bearings in the handle knob and a plastic rotor (1k-4k) or rotor brake (5k-8k). I'm willing to bet the extra 2 bearings probably cost $1 each.


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## Kellercl (Jan 28, 2010)

Fish Hunter said:


> Same reel here as well. IMHO, the smoke is one of the best small reels I have used in the last 55 years. So, much so, that they will be the only reels on my trout rods from now on. Even over the Stradics. Just like I prefer my Loomis 844 over other trout rods I own. Its a matter of personal preference in lots of cases. The Penn Conflicts also feels solid to me, particularly for its price. Smoother than my couple of Battles. I do have an older Sargus on a small surf rod and its still like butter.


Fair enough, glad you are happy with the purchase. I need to try out g-loomis, I've been exclusively St Croix thus far. I also want to try Falcon.


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## RjTheMetalhead (Dec 3, 2011)

Elgreco said:


> You pay $40 more for 2 more bearings in the handle knob and a plastic rotor (1k-4k) or rotor brake (5k-8k). I'm willing to bet the extra 2 bearings probably cost $1 each.


You are paying for a lighter reel and little foam knob. Conflict is about 10% lighter in the inshore sizes than the Battle 2.
Yuppies in boats need lighter reels to go with their light rods so their arms are not so tired so they can pick up their yeti coolers at the end of the day.
The foam knob keeps the yuppies hands soft.


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## RjTheMetalhead (Dec 3, 2011)

RobVB said:


> I can only speak for myself, but...
> 
> This isn't about justifying the purchase of cheap reels, but rather sifting through the BS to find the best value. As I've stated before, for under $200, I still believe the best value including features, price and customer service is the Penn line.
> 
> ...


Penn does have a huge gap in the $200 range(SSV's and the Z series) to the $600+ range(the Torque).
I would not pay anything over $100 for an SSV. I have no faith in that over hyped mess. The internals dont seem much better than the battle... I picked up a 4500SSV 8 ft surf combo for $80, I'll put it through the paces this spring to see if I will get another for a pair to replace my aging pair of 4400ss. 

The Z's will put fish on the beach day in and day out as long as you understand their limits, just like the old beaters you can find on the piers and the beach from 30 years ago.
Torque is nice. Real nice. I'll give a report on it once I murder a couple of cobia, drum and amberjacks with her. Got my 7 for $600 flat, save up a little and find a local tackle shop that will deal a little.


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## bronzbck1 (Jun 13, 2007)

Kellercl said:


> Maybe, maybe not. Price and quality aren't always correlated. I recently bought a Quantum Smoke for $180, the $80 Shimano Symmetre I bought my nephew is better. So is the Fin Nor $130 Inshore.


You bought a Quatum for 180, I wouldnt admit paying that for a Zebco to anyone


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## Elgreco (Aug 12, 2014)

bronzbck1 said:


> You bought a Quatum for 180, I wouldnt admit paying that for a Zebco to anyone


Guys pay $600+ for zeb..er van staals.


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

RjTheMetalhead said:


> The Z's will put fish on the beach day in and day out as long as you understand their limits, just like the old beaters you can find on the piers and the beach from 30 years ago.


"Beaters", eh ? I'll have to post up a few pics of my gear. As for spinners, I use Daiwa Black Gold's ( made in Japan, not Thailand ) and Penn SS Spinfishers (not Graphite-Body ). I maintain them religiously and service them very frequently. 

I'll give a list of my spinners here and will try to post some pics tomorrow, weather permitting. ( I do have a couple of "new" reels - They were "gifts" - LOL ! )

Daiwa Black Gold : (2) BG15, BG20, BG30, BG60, BG90 ( Looking for a BG10, a BG13 and a "cleaner" BG30)

Daiwa Silver Series : D1300

Daiwa Gold Series : GS60

Daiwa Whisker : SS1300

Daiwa Emblem-S : 2500iA

Daiwa D-Shock : 3000-B

Penn SS : 430 SS, 450 SS, 550 SS, (2) 750 SS (Looking for a "clean" 650 SS . . . Had an 850 SS, but sold it )

Penn Z : 704Z

Penn : 104C

Olympic : Zebra 5000, 750 LGIII ( a "monster" )

Shimano Sedona : 6000F ( New in the Box )

Tica : Scepter GX6000 ( New in Box )

Plus, a few other small reels . . .

Then, there are the Conventionals and Trolling reels, but that's "another story" - LOL ! ! !


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## saltwaterassasin (Dec 30, 2014)

I wounder how many of these opinions really matter since you don't really know if the op bought the Equipment New out of box and not reman /or used . Not even considering if all the shipment of equipment came from factory was stored and shipped correctly I been in many b&t shops/box stores where product boxes are mistreated in many ways . it's all factors .I know I have had alot of reels,rods etc second hand , or traded to me in box that was supposedly still new, so should my opinion/suggestion really count on that product . Plus ever person fishes there gear differently in one way or another or more frequently. so the Equipment/product is stressed out in many different ways. So yes you will hear the good and bad . There's no one dominate company . Must lures are made by the same parent company as well . Parent company rebrand stuff all the time . It's in everything.


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## RobVB (Mar 17, 2012)

I think I found what I had been searching for:

http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/lists.html

http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/spsw.html

This has absolutely nothing to do with brand loyalty, re-branding, etc. But, based on the features of THIS REEL and its price ($200-$240), I believe it delivers a great value.

It may be the next Fin Nor Lethal 100!


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## BigWillJ (Jan 21, 2001)

Anybody know who pays Hawk's salary?


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## Kellercl (Jan 28, 2010)

RobVB said:


> I think I found what I had been searching for:
> 
> http://www.alanhawk.com/reviews/lists.html
> 
> ...


As much as I love Shimano... The Lethal is half the price and half the weight... granted the Spheros is smoother... I'd opt for the Lethal personally. I don't personally view the Spheros haing better line capacity as a selling point. Braid being so thin I can load more than enough line on pretty much any reel. Just my 2 cents.


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## jigmeister (Feb 23, 2013)

QBALL said:


> i specificaly spoke with mr tyler of tyler tackle in chesapeake beach about this last weekend. i was leading toward PENN reels. He recommended the okuma trio bf 55. Now that ive read up on them all last week im thinking if this reel stands up to what ive been told and read then ill have no issues getting the 80 or 65 reels. Cant wait for tests to begin this spring on stripers !!!!


There is no Mr Tyler at Tyler's Tackle. He's been dead for years. You had to have spoke with Captain George


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## RobVB (Mar 17, 2012)

Kellercl said:


> As much as I love Shimano... The Lethal is half the price and half the weight... granted the Spheros is smoother... I'd opt for the Lethal personally. I don't personally view the Spheros haing better line capacity as a selling point. Braid being so thin I can load more than enough line on pretty much any reel. Just my 2 cents.


I considered the Lethal 100, but I fish from the beach. I would definately consider it for SW boat fishing. According to the Fin Nor web site, the 100 weighs 30.8 oz and holds 430 yards of 20# mono. Unfortunately, the smaller sizes aren't the same internally.


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## RobVB (Mar 17, 2012)

BigWillJ said:


> Anybody know who pays Hawk's salary?


I doubt it's Shimano.... The new Stella doesn't make his current lists. 

FWIW he seems to now favor the Daiwa Saltiga and Isla.


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## kurazy kracka (Oct 14, 2008)

http://www.rk-sports.com/subaqua-spinning-1.html

I'm VERY interested in seeing the release of this. The weight of the reel really has my attention.


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## Kellercl (Jan 28, 2010)

RobVB said:


> I considered the Lethal 100, but I fish from the beach. I would definately consider it for SW boat fishing. According to the Fin Nor web site, the 100 weighs 30.8 oz and holds 430 yards of 20# mono. Unfortunately, the smaller sizes aren't the same internally.


Fair point. Truthfully I really want Alan to review the Fin Nor Inshore, it is an upgraded Lethal or at least appears to be.


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## Elgreco (Aug 12, 2014)

Seems like that Alan dude is just a guy with a boat load of money that loves fishing and the technical bits.


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

As promised, I've posted up some pics of my spinning gear . . .

Daiwa Black Gold : (2) BG15, BG20, BG30, BG60, BG90 ( Looking for a BG10, a BG13 and a "cleaner" BG30)
Daiwa Silver Series : D1300
Daiwa Gold Series : GS60
Daiwa Whisker : SS1300
Daiwa Emblem-S : 2500iA
Daiwa D-Shock : 3000-B
Penn SS : 430 SS, 450 SS, 550 SS, (2) 750 SS (Looking for a "clean" 650 SS . . . Had an 850 SS, but sold it )
Penn Z : 704Z
Penn : 104C
Olympic : Zebra 5000, 750 LGIII ( a "monster" )
Shimano Sedona : 6000F ( New in the Box )
Tica : Scepter GX6000 ( New in Box )

Plus, a few other small reels . . .

Then, there are the Conventionals and Trolling reels, but that's "another story" - LOL ! ! !


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

A few more shots . . .






































That's all for the Spinners . . .


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## DaBig2na (Aug 7, 2011)

Don't be jealous "As Promised" here is a picture of my Popeil Pocket Fisherman


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## Fish'n Phil (Nov 11, 2002)

I got an original popeil pocket fisherman too! Never caught anything with it but it is still cool.


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

DaBig2na said:


> Don't be jealous "As Promised" here is a picture of my Popeil Pocket Fisherman
> View attachment 14674


You know, I actually had one of those back when I was a kid. It worked fine, until I hooked a fairly good-sized fished, and it blew up - LOL ! The amazing thing is that you can still buy those, 40 years or so after they were first introduced !
*
http://www.walmart.com/ip/As-Seen-on-TV-Ronco-Pocket-Fisherman/10727613*


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## surfnsam (Apr 28, 2008)

Want to know who makes Van Stall reels? Zebco!


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## Islander80 (Mar 27, 2010)

surfnsam said:


> Want to know who makes Van Stall reels? Zebco!


Is that a bad thing? Penn and Abu are made bye Pure Fish.


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## Kellercl (Jan 28, 2010)

I need to show my wife your collection, so she can stop thinking I have too much gear.


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## boomer (Jul 1, 2009)

A company named Haibo Fishing Reels makes the reels for the following companies ; Quantum, Penn, Fin-Nor ,Zebco, Rhino, Abu Garcia, Balzer , Shakespeare, Pinnacle and Revox. If you look on the company website it states that we make reels for the following companies. Jarden owns Abu Garcia, Penn & Shakespeare and WC Bradley owns Zebco, Rhino, Quantum, Fin-nor and Pinnacle. So you may buy a Penn that was made in China at the same plant where Zebco reels are made. And if you have enough money and want 500 reels you can get them made with your name on it, that could be the same as a Penn or a Pinnacle reel.


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## Kellercl (Jan 28, 2010)

SO buy Shimano is what I'm hearing?


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## boomer (Jul 1, 2009)

Who knows, I am sure that their imported reels are the same as any of the other companies.


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## BigWillJ (Jan 21, 2001)

Or worse. They didn't get nicknamed Schittmano for nothing...


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## BigWillJ (Jan 21, 2001)

ez2cdave said:


> A few more shots . . .
> 
> 
> View attachment 14670
> ...


When was the last time you re-spooled, cleaned and lubed all of those reels? And how often? 
How much use do they get?
Seems I recall a post where you had bookoo outfits, and had to rid yourself of many of them when you moved. Where do find the time and places to use all of them?


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

Kellercl said:


> I need to show my wife your collection, so she can stop thinking I have too much gear.


That's just the Spinners . . . I'll post up the conventional gear after the snow clears.


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## Benji (Nov 19, 2014)

ez2cdave said:


> That's just the Spinners . . . I'll post up the conventional gear after the snow clears.


I just want some of your money.. Holy shlitz.


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## Benji (Nov 19, 2014)

Zebco used to make bombs during ww2. Talk bout rebranding


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

BigWillJ said:


> When was the last time you re-spooled, cleaned and lubed all of those reels? And how often?
> How much use do they get?
> Seems I recall a post where you had bookoo outfits, and had to rid yourself of many of them when you moved. Where do find the time and places to use all of them?


I've been doing maintenance on them all Winter . . . Plus, the conventionals !

I do all of them once every year, if they are not fished. Whenever I take outfits out with me to fish, they all get thoroughly cleaned and checked, as soon as I get home or back to the motel room, as the case may be.

Time is always the biggest enemy, especially being 3 hours from the coast. When I was in FL, I live 10-12 miles inland and fished 3-4 nights a week, plus Saturdays. Up here, in NC, I have been averaging only 40 or 5 trips per year. It drives me crazy, because I miss being able to go more often.

People say "fish freshwater" . . . Not me, I was raised with "salt in my veins" and I have no interest in freshwater fishing.

In FL, 9 years ago, there were in the vicinity of 200 outfits, of all types, ranging from 2# - 80#. Just before we moved, I had a garage sale and sold all but about 50 combo's, plus a few extra rods, at my wife's insistence. That was a very painful experience, believe me !


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

Benji said:


> I just want some of your money.. Holy shlitz.


In all fairness, I started my "collection", when I was about 12 years old (Started fishing when I was 6, saltwater ) . . . I learned, right from the start, to take really good care of my things to make them last. I have my Dad and my Grandpa ( I lost him when I was 13 ) to thank for that . . . I'll be 54 this Summer. So that's a little over 40 years, so far !

Tight Lines !


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## Kellercl (Jan 28, 2010)

ez2cdave said:


> That's just the Spinners . . . I'll post up the conventional gear after the snow clears.


I was proud of my collection but man it seems small now. I have a Quantum Smoke, Orvis Access 5 wt, Shimano Sustain, Shimano Baitrunner, Shimano Stradic CI4 and Shimano TLDII. I don't believe my wife should complain about all my fishing gear. Though I do plan on adding in a Fin Nor Inshore along with Falcon rod, along with a Shimano Lucanus setup.


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

Kellercl said:


> I was proud of my collection but man it seems small now. I have a Quantum Smoke, Orvis Access 5 wt, Shimano Sustain, Shimano Baitrunner, Shimano Stradic CI4 and Shimano TLDII. I don't believe my wife should complain about all my fishing gear. Though I do plan on adding in a Fin Nor Inshore along with Falcon rod, along with a Shimano Lucanus setup.



When I lived in FL, my fishing buddies used to call me the "Tackle Ho" . . . LOL !


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## BigWillJ (Jan 21, 2001)

ez2cdave said:


> I've been doing maintenance on them all Winter . . . Plus, the conventionals !
> 
> I do all of them once every year, if they are not fished. Whenever I take outfits out with me to fish, they all get thoroughly cleaned and checked, as soon as I get home or back to the motel room, as the case may be.
> 
> ...


In another post you said how old you were. Not that it matters or means anything but I've been fishing for more years than you are old, and I can only presume you are stiil working, so it's beyond me how you have time for all of that! I say that because I have fewer than that many outfits for me and the wife to each fish the surf and also fish from our boat. That's more outfits than we ever need, and finding time for remedial maintenance on them is a luxury around here.
A little levity - maybe the wifey "insisted" so you would spend less time on all that "stuff"!?!


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

BigWillJ said:


> In another post you said how old you were. Not that it matters or means anything but I've been fishing for more years than you are old, and I can only presume you are stiil working, so it's beyond me how you have time for all of that! I say that because I have fewer than that many outfits for me and the wife to each fish the surf and also fish from our boat. That's more outfits than we ever need, and finding time for remedial maintenance on them is a luxury around here.
> A little levity - maybe the wifey "insisted" so you would spend less time on all that "stuff"!?!


Oh yes, there is no rest for the wicked and there are bills to pay, retirement probably won't come until 70. 

It doesn't really take that long to clean, lube, and maintain reels, provided that they haven't been neglected. Remember, these are mostly 2nd Gen Penn SS and Daiwa Black Gold spinning reels and not very complex in the first place. Like I said earlier in the thread, all of them get gone through, once a year, and the ones that get used are cleaned and re-lubed every time, after they go out.

Same thing goes for my conventional's ( Daiwa Sealine "H" reels, Penn Senators, Penn GS / GTI, Squidders, Shimano Calcutta 700S's, 6600CLW Ambassadeurs, and a few others - No lever drags, no Internationals, no Tiagra's, etc )

My wife enjoys fishing, too, and we share the labor, working on reels together. She usually does the dis-assembly, while I clean, lube, and reassemble them. one at a time, of course. Anything dealing with rod repair, I take care of, while she cleans them and scrubs the grips,, etc.

Whenever people ask her about my "collection", she tells them she's fine with it and that I could have a lot more "bad habits" - LOL !


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

ez2cdave said:


> When I was in FL, I live 10-12 miles inland and fished 3-4 nights a week, plus Saturdays. Up here, in NC, I have been averaging only 40 or 5 trips per year. It drives me crazy, because I miss being able to go more often.



That should have read "4 or 5 trips per year" . . .


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## Elgreco (Aug 12, 2014)

boomer said:


> Who knows, I am sure that their imported reels are the same as any of the other companies.


Shimanos are made in Malaysia not China like most others.


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## BigWillJ (Jan 21, 2001)

ez2cdave said:


> Oh yes, there is no rest for the wicked and there are bills to pay, retirement probably won't come until 70.
> 
> It doesn't really take that long to clean, lube, and maintain reels, provided that they haven't been neglected. Remember, these are mostly 2nd Gen Penn SS and Daiwa Black Gold spinning reels and not very complex in the first place. Like I said earlier in the thread, all of them get gone through, once a year, and the ones that get used are cleaned and re-lubed every time, after they go out.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing that Dave. Funny though, ever realize those reels might not need all that attention? Sometimes I open ours and wonder why bother. They don't get that bad, even after a season's workout, again, in the surf or on the boat. They get a soft hosing after each trip, no protective sprays or anything like that, then put away for next trip. We mostly fish conventionals, and the level winds and handles might get an occasional shot of oil, but that's it until I feel like disassembling, or they start making strange sounds. Could save you some valuable time.....


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

BigWillJ said:


> Thanks for sharing that Dave. Funny though, ever realize those reels might not need all that attention? Sometimes I open ours and wonder why bother. They don't get that bad, even after a season's workout, again, in the surf or on the boat. They get a soft hosing after each trip, no protective sprays or anything like that, then put away for next trip. We mostly fish conventionals, and the level winds and handles might get an occasional shot of oil, but that's it until I feel like disassembling, or they start making strange sounds. Could save you some valuable time.....


It probably is excessive, but I've done that ever since I was a kid ( over 40 years) and the reels all fish like new, decades later. Plus, it's become sort of a hobby for me, as I've gotten older. Also, I often pick up reels at flea markets, garage sales, or on eBay . . . Then, I clean them up and make repairs and either sell them on eBay or give them to friends.


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