# Theories as to why the significant drop in numbers of king mackerel on NC piers?



## French (Jun 18, 2005)

Evening everyone. For the first time since around 2004, I chose not to make an early season trip down south to try and break my king mackerel skunk streak, and based on the reports I have heard ranging from Oak Island to Emerald Isle, it appears to be a wise decision. I started pin rigging in 2000, and I have heard numerous stories of how things "used to be." I rarely saw any kings landed north of Hatteras over that time, but there was a window of 2007-2009 where there were large numbers of kings landed at SENC piers. Even though I never managed to get lucky, I saw a good number caught and many more reported.

Over the last 2-3 years, it seems like the early season bite has been almost non-existant. A handful of kings (maybe 10) have been landed at Oceancrest (4 in one day, none since last Sunday.) I think Oak Island has seen one cobia and 2 or 3 kings. I have heard nothing but bluefish from the other piers.

I know fish populations are cyclical, and the inshore cobia population seems to be doing well. Why has the king mackerel fishing been so poor over the last few years? If this keeps up, I am going to dip into my savings and spend a week on a Gulf coast pier in October trying to get my White Whale.


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## js1172 (Jun 5, 2012)

well last sept every day I fished the avon pier, boats layed nets out 200 yards from the pier, the king fishers were fuming over it.
js


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## WILSON (Aug 27, 2002)

French, spend a day with a commercial king fishermen in the fall. They are VERY good at their job. Not that I have anything against these guys making a living but there's no doubt in my mind it affects the population.


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## plotalot (Apr 27, 2009)

French said:


> If this keeps up, I am going to dip into my savings and spend a week on a Gulf coast pier in October trying to get my White Whale.


The king bite down here has been less than stellar also.


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## KB Spot Chaser (Nov 19, 2009)

WILSON said:


> French, spend a day with a commercial king fishermen in the fall. They are VERY good at their job. Not that I have anything against these guys making a living but there's no doubt in my mind it affects the population.


ding ding ding winner


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

I gave up King Fishing from OBX piers in 1996, numbers started falling off and the piers got more crowded

I King fished sporadically in the early 1980's, late 1970's 

From 1985-1996 I fished for Kings pretty much every clear water day from May-Nov on the OBX, if I had to work construction, I was a Carpenter in those days, I would fish after work, if conditions were perfect we took the day off 

I went down to Nags Head for a weekend and ended up staying, just for the Kings, it was that good, got tired of hearing you should have been here yesterday................barely made a living but I made a lot of memories, and as time goes on..........the memories are worth more

When I fished for Kings off the piers, a good season for me by myself was 10-15 Kings average weight 20 pounds and 4-5 large Cobia on live bait and a few 5-6 pound Spanish

Romeo (RIP) at Avalon would typically catch 30-40 Kings by himself each summer, Romeo caught more Kings than everyone else because he fished hard and he fished every day, and I mean every day during King season.

Two things I attribute to the loss of the OBX Beach King Mackerel fish 

1. Omega

2. Drop Netting out of Hatteras Inlet 


Not sure about the Emerald Coast but I would guess it was the same, less food (Menhaden) and less Kings

If they would buy out Omega with all the NC Saltwater License fees the Kings and large Spanish would come back I would think

The Best days of King Fishing was when there were acres of fatback moving by the Piers, same for the Drum


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## French (Jun 18, 2005)

I certainly miss Romeo. I can still hear his voice when someone hooks up a jack and he yelled "BIG POMPANO."

In the last three years, the only kings I have seen were at Oak Island around Mother's Day. Down there, getting bait was an absolute nightmare. Bogue was also tough to find bait, and only big blues came sniffing. But, in the northern OBX, in my trips the bunker schools were thick. NOTHING WAS IN THEM with the exception of one pod of jack crevalles during 4th of July week in 2011.

On the flipside, it seemed like the baby cobia (28-35 inches) were limitless last year, and we have seen several straight good years of charter fishing for cobia in May. They are eating too. I always heard the regulars say that the netting was responsible for the drop in king populations north of Hatteras, but I didn't think it was allowed down south.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

WILSON said:


> French, spend a day with a commercial king fishermen in the fall. They are VERY good at their job. Not that I have anything against these guys making a living but there's no doubt in my mind it affects the population.


 No doubt,but dropnets were "IMPORTED" from Fla,where fishermen there were ALSO GOOD at their jobs as well..



Garboman said:


> I gave up King Fishing from OBX piers in 1996, numbers started falling off and the piers got more crowded
> 
> I King fished sporadically in the early 1980's, late 1970's
> 
> ...


 I fished from mid 70's and some in the early 80's,about the same avg with one year at 20.. Can remember seeing at least 40 hit the deck in a day.. Most piers,even down south don't do that in a years time..

Kinda withya on the menhaden deal,gotta have bait to have fish.. ALTHOUGH,never saw huge schools of menhaden around Frisco Pier back then,yes once and a while,but not as often as say the piers north of there.. Matter of fact on days when it was near impossible to get a bait,kings were frothing at the end of the pier and baits were skied when they hit the water...

One other reason is that rec anglers had NO LIMIT on the amount of kings they could throw in the cooler.. I was as guilty as the next guy,so not trying to preach a holeyer than though attitude,just stating a fact.. That fact is there were times I coolered as many as 7 kings.. There was no reason to do that,and now regret the fact that I did.. Jmho,think dropnetters were the culprits,especially when you correlate the years that dropnetting first came into play.. If you take those years and look at com king landings from that time on,you can actually see a pattern.. Sorry Garbo,but this would be the one time I'm totally against the coms on this one...


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Bleep Bleep drop netters


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## Loner (Sep 9, 2009)

..I started in "69" and recorded events and circumstance's that produced....the 70's were 250-300 a year just kings.....
The Last year with the yearly patterns was 1981 down here...after that U could go a whole year and NEVER GET PICKED!!!!
We had AJ's and big spanish and the same ole number of Tarpon...but the kings got real scarace..we blamed the advent of KING TOURNEYS!!!...A TOURNEY KING is a PIER KING...150 BOATS off the end of the piers 3 days at at time 7-8 times a year..in PRIME KING SEASON!!!!
BUT...The reason we now believe there is a LACK of PIER KINGS is strictly WEATHER RELATED......
We have had an OCEAN FULL of POGEYS THIS SPRING.......From south to Morehead and the next king at Topsail.... will be the 1st one!!!
Wrightsville's one pier (Mercers) has a 67.5 cobia caught straight up on the new moon...NOTHING SINCE...or before..

Weather......kings for the most part travel east to west....they come INSHORE when the bait and water temps match up...now the spring freeze seems to put up a barrier that they don't want to cross......


The Tarpon migrate UP the coast and just move as the bait and water temps suits them...by the time they get up here its late June and the water is comfortable and there is the usual to eat..

Another barometer is the SPANISH MACKERAL....they ain't here either...and what few are are just about all to be measured..
MAY use to be SPANISH MONTH...FOLKS would take 1-2 weeks off just to plug spaniards OFF THE PIERS...NOT ANYMORE!!!
SPANISH PLUGGING was 2-3 weeks of 2-6 lb fish on Gotcha's and diamond jigs...NO LIMITS...killed 27 one afternoon on Jolly Roger Pier and had NOTHING under 2 1/2 lbs.....several 4's//

The 1st spanish shows up with the schools of blues inshore and with the schools of Atlantic Bonito 2-3 miles off the beach and they ain't here long!!
Again we think its WEATHER RELATED...spanish like kings are PELAGIC...EAST TO WEST FISH....

Another deal that USE to be just a HATTERAS EVENT....SW WINDS now COOL the water in spring....Y??? I don't know but you can be picking whatever along on the spring east and Ne winds...let it go south and the ocean inshore will DROP 2-6 DEGREES...

I too must admit there JUST AIN'T AS MANY OUT THERE AS THERE WAS WHEN i was in my 20's.....we have about a MILLION MORE IMMIGRANTS in this state that go to FISHING CLASSES and GO FISH...GREAT FOR THE TACKLE SHOPS..not so much for the populations of FISH....
Some law trying to be passed pushs that the economic benefit of that bull-crap is IT WILL BRING MORE ANGLERS TO NC...
This state needs another SALT-FISHER like it needs another tree cut or another yankee moving in......
Cold springs ..slow to warm springs ...always result in KING FISHING FOR STRAYS!!!!

Now the final coup de grass...NO CHOPPERS THIS SPRING!!!...We cussed those thing til they finally are GONE....The full moon in May was a BLITZ on the king rigs ...NOT THIS YEAR......

The tackle is better than every before and now there ain't NOTHING TO PIN RIG.............(Waiting for the Tarpon!!


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## hugehail (May 25, 2013)

In order to have a large impact on beach SST's, the wind needs to be orthogonal to the coastline--hence light to moderate southwest/west wind at nags head would would be upwelling and there would be a cooling effect from late may through the summer. A light to moderate northeast/east wind there would be downwelling with warmer ssts. But along the southeast coast its different, a southeast east to south wind at Surf city should have a warming effect in spring and a west to north wind should be a cooling effect due to overturning of the water. Upwelling is when you push the water near the beach out to sea (at the top) and colder bottom water rushes toward the coast near the bottom. This spring has been an outlier. The Blues were late showing up at Nags head due to the Murky water. So I am not sure we can say the Spanish are dwindling.


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## WNCRick (Sep 24, 2007)

Orthogonal and outlier, flashback to college math in that post. Didn't know whether I was in Calc or stats when I read that......


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## Sharkbait25 (Apr 29, 2013)

Numbers are down everywhere on every species due to many factors. I just read an article (newly printed) the other day with these words printed "....since the ocean has an endless supply of fish...", the fact is with the numbers (or lack of numbers) we are seeing is the affect of that type of mentality. The ocean does have a LIMITED number of life within it and if not properly managed (similar to the way hunting is) then the fishermen with the nets won't have anything to catch nor will we.

I encourage those who haven't seen what the sporting boats are bringing in at Oregon Inlet or other harbors to go take a look. As the crew unloads their catch notice the size of the fish. Last time I stopped in OI there was about 20 mahi mahi off one boat that were hardly 16" long....all of them. In not so many years past the mahi would have averaged 3-4x this size, but now the fish simply cant grow that large due to the over fishing and other enviromental factors. As others have said, I am NOT attaching the fishermen trying to make a living, nor is that my intention. Rather we have ignored the husbandry of the ocean and just assumed that it is a limitless bounty for our taking, but now we must change our attitudes about it and with proper "management" restore healthy populations of fish so EVERYONE can benefit.


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## French (Jun 18, 2005)

I don't have the lengthy experience that some on this board have, but I am not entirely sure that your point rings true. When my dad started me fishing in the OBX (1988), the big bluefish were non-existance. There were tons of gray trout. No stripers anywhere. I heard folks talking about how poor the drum fishing was in the 90's (no idea if it is true, but I never managed one.)

Since I started spending extended periods of time on the coast, I have seen great spanish years and poor ones. Cobia have been up and down, mostly based on how many summer days have light NE winds. The bluefin tuna bite has been other-worldly, and yellowfin seemed to have a rebound year. I am almost sick from seeing photos of giant pompano. It seems like some of the population dips are cyclical, but the kings seem to be different.

Thanks everyone on your theories. I guess I need to plan a Florida trip at some point if I want to pop my king cherry.


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## catsfan9 (Mar 29, 2009)

My pet theory would be all of the sand being pumped back up onto the beach. King fished Cherry Grove starting in the very early 80's. My first king was gaffed by Chief @ Cherry grove.
I fished the spring and fall tournaments for a lot of years. We would catch fish, but once they started "improving" the beach, the fishing went all to hell. Used to stay @ that pink 5 story right beside cherry grove pier, we would fish off the balcony at high tide. Long time ago.


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## doubleb (May 19, 2009)

catsfan9 said:


> My pet theory would be all of the sand being pumped back up onto the beach. King fished Cherry Grove starting in the very early 80's. My first king was gaffed by Chief @ Cherry grove.
> I fished the spring and fall tournaments for a lot of years. We would catch fish, but once they started "improving" the beach, the fishing went all to hell. Used to stay @ that pink 5 story right beside cherry grove pier, we would fish off the balcony at high tide. Long time ago.


i agree with the sand moving theory,, it kills fishing here on pleasure island......


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

I used to try and Orthogonal this Babe I knew in College, did not drive a Ferrari at the time so Ortho was as far as I got

What is going on in Alabama????..............that was my new hope to go down there on an expedition and .............snooker (Yankee term for snobbling??) a few of them Kings away from the Crimson Tide Locals............now the Kings are wiped out down there too?


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## RjTheMetalhead (Dec 3, 2011)

catsfan9 said:


> My pet theory would be all of the sand being pumped back up onto the beach. King fished Cherry Grove starting in the very early 80's. My first king was gaffed by Chief @ Cherry grove.
> I fished the spring and fall tournaments for a lot of years. We would catch fish, but once they started "improving" the beach, the fishing went all to hell. Used to stay @ that pink 5 story right beside cherry grove pier, we would fish off the balcony at high tide. Long time ago.



Have been told the year before the last nourishment in MB the number of kings caught at Springmaid was around 40.
Year after? 0.

Pumped nasty sand from a few miles offshore.


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## Jesse Lockowitz (Feb 13, 2006)

There's been more menhaden here last year and this year so far, then in a handful of years on EI. Last summer it was nothing to see over a dozen pods within sight of pier at one time.....but NOTHING was going through them other then a tarpon now and then and sharks, and even the sharks werent overly around....

Be nice to see them come back, but bogue hasn't seen anything other then a few cobia, but you can't do anything except pin rig for them so only a few will be caught this year like always...


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## French (Jun 18, 2005)

Yep Jesse. It is hard to believe that it has dropped off so much from the first couple of years I came down there. They year Amy and I came down a couple of times, we saw at least 1 king caught every day. I saw 9 landed that year (can't remember if it was 08 or 09.) Last year, 2 were caught at Oak Island Pier while I was there (and I got a run and drop), but it went dead for the rest of the summer.


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## Loner (Sep 9, 2009)

..Ocean Crest is up to 17-18 including a 37 lber among 3 today.....


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## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

Loner said:


> ..Ocean Crest is up to 17-18 including a 37 lber among 3 today.....


And last week Ricky was complaining they werent gonna catch no more haha


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