# Point Lookout 4-30



## Guest (May 1, 2019)

Unbelievable. Nothing but blue cats at PLO. Normally by this time of year I start catching stripers from shore with lures, but this evening not a single striper to be found. Just blue cats hitting the lures meant for the stripers. This is bad news. My entire life I've thought of PLO as firmly saltwater species territory (I've even seen black sea bass and tautog caught here!) and now invasive blue cats are taking over it seems. There's too much freshwater in the bay and too many invasive fish happy to move in and settle down. It's one thing when there's catfish by the bay bridge, but all the way down at PLO? This is insanity.


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## ASK4Fish (May 4, 2005)

Crabbers on the ESVA are catching blue cats and snakeheads in their pots all the way down to Occohannock creek...Salinity in the bay is certainly much lower than normal, and yes, when that is the case the invasives move on down as far as they can tolerate. To me the saddest part is how the invasives have been "allowed" (through catch and release) and encouraged (through illegal personal stockings into other waterways) to thrive in our bay. Really upsetting to me when you see guys caring more about invasie blue cats and snakeheads than our native species. mini-rant over...


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## fish-on (May 12, 2002)

yeah, the catfish really didn't show up til the fall of last year. Before then, I never caught a catfish at PLO. Me and my friends fish PLO throughout the year including last year, not one catfish throughout spring and summer. Then one night in the early fall, late Sept or early Oct. it was catfish galore. From your report, they're still there.


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## ASK4Fish (May 4, 2005)

Rewind the clock to pre-2005 on the James river near the James River bridge, one could catch 2+lb. croakers starting in mid-March when the pier opened. Rarely, on the bottom of an outgoing tide and after some heavy rains, one could catch a small blue catfish. Fast forward to today, Blue catfish in the 1-5+lb. range all day everyday starting when the pier first opens in March, and croakers are rare now this early, and seldom even close to 1/2lb.


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## Benji (Nov 19, 2014)

Number 1 most destructive fish in an ecosystem. Eats anything that will fit in its mouth. And no predators.


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## classicist (May 2, 2018)

I was at Sandy Point yesterday and caught nothing but blue cats as one might expect due to its place in the upper bay, but for the last few years since I've been living in Maryland the only catfish I have caught there were channel cats. There was a DNR officer who I was talking to and he said the blue cats are eating everything, not just blue crabs, but also croaker, spot and other native species. He said to take as many as you want and even "if you don't them, throw them in the bushes - something else will eat them." I ended up taking 14 for the table. While it is better to keep a fish to eat than waste it, I agree that no invasive, especially one as damaging as the blue catfish, should be released. Its an apex predator with little competition. On this forum, I keep reading about the good old days of the 1980s, 1990s, and even the 2000s in the Bay. While its isn;t solely the blue catfish that is to blame for the decline in native species, they do not help. I would love to experience the fishing the old timers are writing about here from back in the day.


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## classicist (May 2, 2018)

I forgot to add that since blue cats can tolerate salinity up to 15 ppt, the entire section of bay in Maryland falls within their tolerance.

https://www.chesapeakebay.net/channel_files/25580/nepalkc_ictf_11062017.pdf


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## thaweatherman (Mar 9, 2018)

The DNR officer telling you to throw them in the bushes probably explains that post from a few weeks ago with a dozen or so blue cats sitting on the beach at SPSP.


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## classicist (May 2, 2018)

thaweatherman said:


> The DNR officer telling you to throw them in the bushes probably explains that post from a few weeks ago with a dozen or so blue cats sitting on the beach at SPSP.


Makes sense, but those are the best eating sizes. All the ones I was catching were that size- 2-4 pounds and perfect for the table. I am sure others who wanted more desirable species (rockfish) left them there.


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## Huntsman (Mar 6, 2003)

No natural predators. No prejudice to what it eats. Their population is only going to continue to grow and eventually that'll be all you catch in the Upper, Middle and Lower Bay areas.


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## Benji (Nov 19, 2014)

Huntsman said:


> No natural predators. No prejudice to what it eats. Their population is only going to continue to grow and eventually that'll be all you catch in the Upper, Middle and Lower Bay areas.


you may not find them in the mid to lower bay. They can only tolerate salt to a point. The problem is with large prolonged periods of rainfall they will infest all tributaries that feed into the bay, and destroy the hatch of other species. Less rockfish less drum less croakers, less trout....and so on.


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## thaweatherman (Mar 9, 2018)

MillerLiteHouse, what lures were they hitting on? I assume they have a size preference for their prey. Maybe something in the 3-5" range.


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## TunaFish (Aug 16, 2001)

thaweatherman said:


> The DNR officer telling you to throw them in the bushes probably explains that post from a few weeks ago with a dozen or so blue cats sitting on the beach at SPSP.


I started that thread to call out the idiots who dumped 17 dead cats on the beach and still against that kind of crap.



classicist said:


> "if you don't them, throw them in the bushes - something else will eat them."


Yes, RATS and I'm talking about the rodents. Anybody who used to fish Kent Narrows (both sides) can tell you that place reeked in the summertime when anglers leave carcasses (undersized rocks, bunker, rays, and other bait) 
by the pier or bushes. While fishing, you can hear/see the rats dash between the rocks and bushes. Same with PLO at the causeway or the jetties. Some of the rats were big too and I can't imagine getting bitten by one.

It was a dumb thing for the DNR to say that and I bet he/her never fished a day in their lives. The least the DNR could have said is just kill it and feed the crabs since they should be actively feeding around now.

Maybe we can take advantage of these invasive species by donating them to a charity (food bank, homeless shelters, etc..). Someone mentioned he donated them to a food bank. Anyway, after I read that I tried to reach out a homeless shelter and offer to donate catfish fillet but did not get any response.


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## Benji (Nov 19, 2014)

TunaFish said:


> thaweatherman said:
> 
> 
> > The DNR officer telling you to throw them in the bushes probably explains that post from a few weeks ago with a dozen or so blue cats sitting on the beach at SPSP.
> ...


You might not be able to donate fish like that without a com license or a wholesale license. It may need to be from a documented source.


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## TunaFish (Aug 16, 2001)

Benji said:


> You might not be able to donate fish like that without a com license or a wholesale license. It may need to be from a documented source.


Good point. Forgot about that.

I did take 2 home and have to say, with a little seasoning, it's not really that bad. I hear they make good fertilizer.


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## ASK4Fish (May 4, 2005)

Benji said:


> you may not find them in the mid to lower bay. They can only tolerate salt to a point. The problem is with large prolonged periods of rainfall they will infest all tributaries that feed into the bay, and destroy the hatch of other species. Less rockfish less drum less croakers, less trout....and so on.


Mid and lower bay happening, Occohannock cr. would definitely be considered lower mid-bay (think silver beach /exmore ESVA), and they were catching blue cats down to HRBT in march, personally caught one in a cast net at the ft. monroe moat in march... in regards to salinity tolerance, the buoy at first landing is currently measuring 15.61ppt. and that 15ppt toxicity is also based on a 72hr. period of exposure, so blue cats can temporarily be in higher salinity or use freshets to traverse very large spans of water very quickly and return to a zone more favorable up stream or up a creek...


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## Benji (Nov 19, 2014)

ASK4Fish said:


> Benji said:
> 
> 
> > you may not find them in the mid to lower bay. They can only tolerate salt to a point. The problem is with large prolonged periods of rainfall they will infest all tributaries that feed into the bay, and destroy the hatch of other species. Less rockfish less drum less croakers, less trout....and so on.
> ...


maybe they are adapting to salt. How f up would that be.


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## classicist (May 2, 2018)

The first landing buoy is almost the mouth of the bay. Hard to believe the salinity could be that low there at the surface. 

I found this from the DNR website:

"There are five catfish species harvested from the Chesapeake Bay. White catfish
(Ameiurus catus) and brown bullheads (A. nebulosus) are native to the area. Channel
catfish (Ictalurus punctatus) were introduced into the Potomac River around the end of
the 19th century. The channel catfish spread throughout the Bay region, reaching
Maryland’s portion of the Chesapeake Bay in the late 1950’s. They are now ubiquitous
in the region and are considered naturalized. The non-native blue (Ictalurus furcatus)
and flathead (Pylodictis olivaris) catfish populations have spread into nearly every
major tributary of the Chesapeake Bay (Figure 1). Blue catfish were introduced to the
Potomac River in the 1970s and have been found in high numbers from the 1990’s to
present. Flathead catfish were introduced to the James River in Virginia between 1965
and 1977. Additional introductions are believed to have occurred in the upper
Chesapeake Bay within the last 10 years and flathead catfish are now commonly found
there. *Both non-native catfish species have increased in abundance and expanded their
range beyond their usual salinity tolerance.* Blue and flathead catfish are top apex
predators in the ecosystem which raises concerns about their effects on native fish
communities. "

(https://dnr.maryland.gov/fisheries/Documents/Section_9_Catfish.pdf)

Interesting little history, but the bold part does imply they've adapted to higher salinity. FWIW I have never caught a channel catfish in the Potomac or its tributaries- only in the Bay proper and furthest south in the Bay was Eastern Bay.


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## ASK4Fish (May 4, 2005)

https://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=44064

First landing buoy. The company I work with runs data that agrees very well with their measurements.


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## Benji (Nov 19, 2014)

I catch smaller ones often in the spring and fall around the jrb, and I know coms that were netting cats at the hrbt this past spring. I always thought it was because of the lower salinity from the amount of rain we have at those times. It would be very disturbing to catch blue cats at buckroe, but that may be 5 years or less away from what your saying. I remember 20 years ago you didn't catch them lower than chickahomany river. ... and is the fort monroe moat a good spot to net mullet? I've ruined nets at the discharge.


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## supercast (May 17, 2006)

*The next invaders will be snake heads and I heard they are good to eat*



classicist said:


> The first landing buoy is almost the mouth of the bay. Hard to believe the salinity could be that low there at the surface.
> 
> I found this from the DNR website:
> 
> ...


goo


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## Guest (May 3, 2019)

thaweatherman said:


> MillerLiteHouse, what lures were they hitting on? I assume they have a size preference for their prey. Maybe something in the 3-5" range.


Was catching them on Storm swim shads and a hard plastic jerkbait style lure. Both probably 5" long. They hit really hard, pull for about half a second, then either roll around and tangle themselves in the line or just let you drag them in like a big slimy rock.


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## ASK4Fish (May 4, 2005)

Benji said:


> I catch smaller ones often in the spring and fall around the jrb, and I know coms that were netting cats at the hrbt this past spring. I always thought it was because of the lower salinity from the amount of rain we have at those times. It would be very disturbing to catch blue cats at buckroe, but that may be 5 years or less away from what your saying. I remember 20 years ago you didn't catch them lower than chickahomany river. ... and is the fort monroe moat a good spot to net mullet? I've ruined nets at the discharge.


The moat can be good, they'll run you off. Yeah and don't throw in front of the drainage, in addition to the big metal grate in front there is a ton of rubble down there on the bottom. Better to throw from the kayak launch floating dock. Just suck when there's huge schools of mullet in from if the discharge and won't move away you get tempted and throw there and ruin a $100 cast net...


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## classicist (May 2, 2018)

Heavy rains and low salinity are the bane of Chesapeake Bay fishing! Make the Chesapeake Salty Again! :fishing:


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## Benji (Nov 19, 2014)

ASK4Fish said:


> Benji said:
> 
> 
> > I catch smaller ones often in the spring and fall around the jrb, and I know coms that were netting cats at the hrbt this past spring. I always thought it was because of the lower salinity from the amount of rain we have at those times. It would be very disturbing to catch blue cats at buckroe, but that may be 5 years or less away from what your saying. I remember 20 years ago you didn't catch them lower than chickahomany river. ... and is the fort monroe moat a good spot to net mullet? I've ruined nets at the discharge.
> ...


they school up pretty nice at the green mile also, always trying to find more bait spots.


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