# "looping on hooks" is this knot kosher?



## mhebbard (Aug 15, 2010)

Quick question - I've been tying some double-drop rigs, and one place has directions to tie a dropper loop, and one says to tie on another piece with a surgeons knot or something and then cut the line at the top so you have a longer "extra" piece.. I've been tying the loop ones and just figured out that I can make the loops interchangeable re: hooks etc, if I just loop around the hook through the eye, and then if I want to change hooks it is super fast to pull it out and put another one on. The question is, is this a safe way to tie on hooks? Is there a greater chance I might break off? 

Here is what i'm talking about (im a visual learner, so I try to demonstrate on mspaint a lot  )


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

yep called a snell knot. works great cant come* untied* and makes for easy hook changes if one gets dull or you want to change sizes.


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## wdbrand (May 24, 2007)

*Do you mean a loop knot*

instead of a snell knot, which it ain't. At least I call it a loop knot.


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

its called a snelled hook my bad. didnt mean knot.


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

just to save u some time with unnessary explanation of snell knot i do know and have seen tied read studied the proper snell knot yes this can be called a loop knot but the way the line goes thru the eye and connects to the shank not the eye itself is what the term snelling means............


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## wdbrand (May 24, 2007)

*Not*

a snell knot, and not a snelled hook.


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

ok. cool.


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## wdbrand (May 24, 2007)

*Go to netknots.com*

There are excellent drawings of how to snell a hook.


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

sure thing there boss.


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

the word snell is an adj. not a noun therefore its not a type of knot as that would be a noun its a process. . the word snell is defined in the dictionary a something that is *accute* or *quick* . both of which a loop knot is. hence the hook is connected in a snelling fashion. you can snell anything as long as something is done in an accute or quick way then it was *snelled*............................... my man. study the english laungage.


so how bout this......thats a nice* snelled* loop knot you tied there!!!!


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## c0ch3s3 (Jul 10, 2009)

OP:

i always do my bottom rigs like that. easy hook removal or change out.


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## wdbrand (May 24, 2007)

*I suppose ut's really hard*

to have made 1480 posts just to let everyone on P&S discover you don't know what you're talking about. But maybe they will forgive you like I have.


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

wdbrand said:


> to have made 1480 posts just to let everyone on P&S discover you don't know what the hell you're talking about. But maybe they will forgive you like I have.


LOL . DONT WORRY I UNDERSTAND HOW YOUR FEELING.:fishing: Lol.


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

:fishing::--|


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## wdbrand (May 24, 2007)

*Oh,*

I'm feeling fine. My post was directed to you[1480 posts]. Reckon you don't understand the English language.


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

wdbrand said:


> I'm feeling fine. My post was directed to you[1480 posts]. Reckon you don't understand the English language.


LOL. I understand how your feeling.lol:fishing: i would be a little emberrased to and probally feel the need to lash out also. no worries .


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## wdbrand (May 24, 2007)

mhebbard, sorry, but your question wasn't answered. For small stuff like spot; mullet; pomps, the loop will suffice and is a quick change knot. However, for bigger fish, or when you are targeting bigger fish, there are much better knots, altho maybe not fast change ones. I never trusted a loop for anything but weight and then not in a crowd.


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

clinder said:


> yep called a snell knot. works great cant come* untied* and makes for easy hook changes if one gets dull or you want to change sizes.


.....


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## BubbaHoTep (May 26, 2008)

wdbrand said:


> mhebbard, sorry, but your question wasn't answered. For small stuff like spot; mullet; pomps, the loop will suffice and is a quick change knot. However, for bigger fish, or when you are targeting bigger fish, there are much better knots, altho maybe not fast change ones. I never trusted a loop for anything but weight and then not in a crowd.


Good advice, imo. About every time I think I'm going to try a "loop," I get to thinking about the "what if it's something bigger. . . " and go with a Palomar instead. Yeah, the quick change part is a big plus to the loop, I guess, but I've always been a little "antsy" about using it.


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## wdbrand (May 24, 2007)

*Another reason to avoid the loop*

is because where the eye of the hook bends back to the shaft, there is a sharp place for the loop to nick. And even if you take the time to make sure you loop the knot on the smooth, top of the eye, they will invaribly work back down and get into the sharp point at the shank. Like bubba said, a palomar is as close to a 100% knot as you can tie.


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

solid eye or welded eye hooks . theres no sharp thing on em. (but the point and barb of course)


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## Flytyingguy1 (Sep 8, 2009)

The easiest & most simple IMO is to tie a dropper loop & tie the hook on with a Polomar knot.


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## HStew (Jan 8, 2009)

mhebbard... that way to attach a hook is pretty good, fast, can change out hooks easily, and will stand up to most anything you can catch around there!!!


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## SmoothLures (Feb 13, 2008)

Works fine for the smaller stuff round here. Have at it.


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## REKER (Jun 23, 2010)

Mhebbard, be aware that "knot" is not a snell knot. 
This is:









But to answer your question, like everyone else said, that is ok for the smaller fish. Im not sure which way you are tying your drop rigs, but here is a video of the way I like to tie my drop rigs. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p8uUYcH1T0

The more secure way would be to tie on your hook with a polomar knot.


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

but it is a *snelled *loop knot


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## REKER (Jun 23, 2010)

haha, Clinder, I dont wanna start a pissing match, but if you really want to get technical with the english language, your use of "snell" is in fact, incorrect. Snell is actually an adj AND a noun, and means . The way you use it from which you replied earlier, is from "snel." Spelled with one " L," not two. Snel is actually an old english word... and no one talks in old english anymore in modern America. You should probably update your dictionary. 

Edit: Dictionary.com - Snell Hey, you asked for it.


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## wdbrand (May 24, 2007)

*Mhebbard,*

like several people stated, the loop will work fine, or even simpler than a dropper loop, is the surgeons loop tied anywhere in the running line. Quicker and easier and serves the same purpose. And will work fine for a two hook bottom rig fishing in close or off the pier. Probably 99% of the pre-made two hook rigs will have a packaged hook using a loop in the end and the majority of the time, the break will come where the snelled hook is attached to wire standout in the loop connection. I still can't trust the loop if anything big is subject to bitin the rig. Like REKER said, it ain't worth a pissin match. All questions aren't normally run thru the wringer like this one has been. It's not a crime to be wrong. But to be wrong and to be wrong and hardheaded and ashamed to admit it, is a shame and a sin. This board doesn't run on bad info given to a poster asking a legitimate question, and is usually corrected. Are you confused yet?


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

REKER said:


> haha, Clinder, I dont wanna start a pissing match, but if you really want to get technical with the english language, your use of "snell" is in fact, incorrect. Snell is actually an adj AND a noun, and means . The way you use it from which you replied earlier, is from "snel." Spelled with one " L," not two. Snel is actually an old english word... and no one talks in old english anymore in modern America. You should probably update your dictionary.
> 
> Edit: Dictionary.com - Snell Hey, you asked for it.


ok how bout this then....thats a nice *precise and accute *loop knot you tied there.

.............................. or thats a nice *snelled* loop knot you tight there.


both statements say the exact same thing .


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## wdbrand (May 24, 2007)

*Reker,*

you ever get the feeling your're flogging a dead horse. His credibility has been shot all to hell with this thread and he's trying to save face, or, hindend.


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## SoaknBait (Jul 24, 2008)

Are you guys tying these loops/rigs right on your main running line? or on some type of leader? I use 12lb test for my running line spot and Pomp. fishing, seems like the 12lb might be a little weak to be tying rigs with..


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## wdbrand (May 24, 2007)

*For small surf fish,*

12# is plenty. At least IMO. A dropper loop/surgeons loop in the main line won't be any weaker than the loop itself for what you are targeting. Altho, some folks like a floro leader but to me that only adds cost to a simple rig. Like I said, you'll lose more fish due to line nicks from the loop getting on the shaft where the bend goes against the shaft of the hook than from main line breakage.


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

wdbrand said:


> you ever get the feeling your're flogging a dead horse. His credibility has been shot all to hell with this thread and he's trying to save face, or, hindend.


good thing i dont need credibility or you would have a point.:fishing:opcorn: lol.


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## wdbrand (May 24, 2007)

*Then quit posting your drivel.*

I doubt if anyone will ever take one of your posts seriously again.


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

wdbrand said:


> I doubt if anyone will ever take one of your posts seriously again.


dont care. the ones that matter know me .


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

by the way isnt wdbrand a type of meat thats sold in a prominant grocery store chain...................just wondering how u came up with that . since you wanna play?opcorn:


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## TimKan7719 (Apr 4, 2008)

Just to jump back on track with the thread. The looks are great when fishing for Whiting, pomps, small bluefish. They can be a problem with fishing for larger blues, reds and other fish. Might break the Line. But when i am fishing for whiting and pomps I use the loops with 15lb test, So I can change out hooks faster.
Tight Lines,
Tim


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## seajay (Dec 18, 2005)

REKER said:


> haha, Clinder, I dont wanna start a pissing match, but if you really want to get technical with the english language, your use of "snell" is in fact, incorrect. Snell is actually an adj AND a noun, and means . The way you use it from which you replied earlier, is from "snel." Spelled with one " L," not two. Snel is actually an old english word... and no one talks in old english anymore in modern America. You should probably update your dictionary.
> 
> Edit: Dictionary.com - Snell Hey, you asked for it.


I believe he is using the word Snell as an Adjective therefore he is correct.
So you speak Dutch? As Snel is dutch for quick. A word derived from the old high German language.

And yes those double loop dropper rigs will work just fine.


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## REKER (Jun 23, 2010)

clinder said:


> ok how bout this then....thats a nice *precise and accute *loop knot you tied there.
> 
> .............................. or thats a nice *snelled* loop knot you tight there.
> 
> ...


I would be highly surprised if you used "snell" or "snel" in your daily vocabulary outside of the fishing realm, which is the way you are using it through your backpedaling of such a minor thing to just admit you were wrong about. I could care less if you were wrong, I just dont want anyone to misunderstand what you were talking about... or trying to talk about.



wdbrand said:


> you ever get the feeling your're flogging a dead horse. His credibility has been shot all to hell with this thread and he's trying to save face, or, hindend.


Very much so. Reminds me of a buddy of mine who is "never wrong" and tries to backpedal out of everything... yet, everyone knows he's wrong so he just makes him self look more like a moron by not admitting it. 



SoaknBait said:


> Are you guys tying these loops/rigs right on your main running line? or on some type of leader? I use 12lb test for my running line spot and Pomp. fishing, seems like the 12lb might be a little weak to be tying rigs with..


12lb might be fine for pomps. I prerig my drops with 40lb test tied to a swivel and then store them for use later. Either way works.



seajay said:


> I believe he is using the word Snell as an Adjective therefore he is correct.
> So you speak Dutch? As Snel is dutch for quick. A word derived from the old high German language.
> 
> And yes those double loop dropper rigs will work just fine.


I was saying he was incorrect for saying that it was not a noun. And lets be honest here, we all know he wasnt using snell or snel in Dutch or even in his daily vocabulary.

To the OP... sorry about the thread jack and English lesson! Grammar lesson!


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## MBsandflea (Jun 27, 2004)

SoaknBait said:


> Are you guys tying these loops/rigs right on your main running line? or on some type of leader? I use 12lb test for my running line spot and Pomp. fishing, seems like the 12lb might be a little weak to be tying rigs with..


I don't use less than 20lb on any rod I have, and yes I do tie them on the main line when bottom fishing. In fact, my typical bottom rig consists of tying, or looping, my sinker on the end of my line and then tying off my two loops for hooks. That's it, no leader, no shock leader or anything else. Yes, I do have break-offs, but usually only when the line gets worn. Hooks are cheap to replace and since have a melting pot and sinker molds it's cheaper than replacing tied on swivels. 

As for everything else, I was always taught that "snelling" a hook involved wrapping the shank with line at some point. Otherwise, you're just tying the hook on with a knot of your preference.


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## wdbrand (May 24, 2007)

*Personally,*

I would prefer 15# or 20# test for tying my own rigs except for one thing. With a #4 or #6 hook when using a loop knot, getting the loop thru the small eye is tuff even with 12# line. In a good bite almost impossible, especially with wet and cold fingers. Can be done with the aid of a tag passed thru the eye of the hook, thru a loop, then back thru the hook eye. But there's no gain there time wise. To compensate for the difficulty, I will pre tie rigs in heavier line with the loops. Then snell up hooks for easy attachment.


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## wdbrand (May 24, 2007)

*BTW, MBsandflea,*

how do you get your loop thru the hook eye? Need to learn how and a better way of doing mine. Thanks.


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

sorry guys just went and fished in the atlantic ocean rather than the cyber sea( doesnt apply to everyone just the lame o"s ) and i see type of meat and a few others still sittin here just chattin over words. i did catch a nice cooler full of sheepshead while i was gone and im sorry i left the* credible *waiting.. but dont worry there meat brand im back from fishing now!:fishing:


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

Hey, I have a great answer,,, the next person that feels the need to be on PMS with smart arse comments will have a few days of quite time to think about it.


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## SmoothLures (Feb 13, 2008)

SoaknBait said:


> Are you guys tying these loops/rigs right on your main running line? or on some type of leader? I use 12lb test for my running line spot and Pomp. fishing, seems like the 12lb might be a little weak to be tying rigs with..


It should work fine. Don't be afraid to retie after a couple of fish. I use a minimum of 14#. Up to 20 works fine. Try different lines and keep what you like.


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## wdbrand (May 24, 2007)

*According to "dictionary.com"*

That should have been "quiet" not "quite". 
Better watch your tounge REKER, shooter said he was going to send you to the corner wid a dunce cap fer at least 2 days, maybe more, for some quite time.


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## MBsandflea (Jun 27, 2004)

wdbrand, press it and push it through the eye then twist the loop and put the hook back through the loop. It can be irritating with smaller hook eyes, so I make sure the hooks I buy have big enough eyes for the task. The line I use this with most often is 20lb Cajun, it seems to be a thinner line that most. 


Just so most here know, there is an easier way to tie hooks onto a main line with drop loops but you can't change out hooks without cutting the line. Just pull off you main line and string your hooks onto it. Pull the hooks out and tie your drop loops in the doubled line. If you choose to tie a sinker or swivel on, just put it straight onto the end of the line. 

I choose to tie my hooks and sinkers onto the main line simply because I've noticed more bites with less tackle and different lines in the water. I use the old fashioned rule of K.I.S.S....Keep It Simple Stupid. Same way with king rigs, one swivel, sevenstrand, two #6 trebles tied on with Figure-8 knots. Less is more in my book and the runs and bites seem to prove it again and again.


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## greg12345 (Jan 8, 2007)

I use loops all the time, make sure you twist the loop once after running it through the eye before putting it around/over the end of the hook like someone mentioned before, this keeps the hook snug at the end. I only use 25lb fluoro leader material for my rigs and sometimes it is hard to get it through the eye of the hook; if that is the case I will fold/crimp the end w/pliers to help it through. Now this will weaken the line but if you loop it through the way I described all the stress of the hook/weight of the fish will be on a section of the loop that has not been crimped. I have landed up to 10 pound sheepshead on said rig with no problem. This rig lets you change out your hooks after every day of fishing which I need to do b/c I fish sand fleas exclusively and your hook point gets dull real fast. 

My rig is just a small surgeons loop at the top with a small black swivel in it for attaching to the mainline, then 2 6-8" dropper loops a foot apart, then a slightly larger surgeon's loop at the bottom that I loop around my sinker. The only metal on there is hooks + small black swivel.


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## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

This method works fine on my double-drop rigs for spot, whiting and other small fish. It allows you to change out the hooks quickly to match the size of bait you are using, or when tied on the bottom of the rig it can mean an easy way to change the weight used to accommodate changing surf conditions.

And not that I think it will bring an end to the argument, but the knot detailed in the original post is a GIRTH HITCH, COW HITCH or RING HITCH. It is a common climbing hitch, used to create a directional attachment point around a smooth-edged object like a rock protrusion or a tree with an endless loop or webbing sling. It can also be used to attach slings to harnesses or gear.










Evan


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