# What happened to all the Stripers?



## fish militia

That's a huge question, that generally brings on huge arguments.

As a person who chased these fish growing up in VA and since I've lived in NC.. I Want to know.

So, I jumped at the chance to go out with some researchers to learn more about stripers and what has been going on. 

Here is a link to the story and video.


http://islandfreepress.org/2015Archives/02.02.2015-OuterBanksAnglingStripedGold.html


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## dialout

I clicked the video...I can see lips moving, but have no sound. ...tried another YouTube video and it had sound...May be just me, don't know. Just a heads up


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## monarchwr

Was able to watch no problem with sound. Great video looks like a good time


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## JamesRiverVa

Having only really gotten into surf fishing the OBX after the huge blitz runs of big blues and the winter striper beach fishing were things of the past, I sure wish I hadn't missed out on those days. As much as I love the surf fishing I do get to experience, I can only imagine what it must have been like to be there when blues 10 pounds and up were all over in the surf, and when it was realistic to hope for a 20+ pound striper from the beach.


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## AL_N_VB

Sick video, General!! Awesome research!!!


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## narfpoit

So you caught 274 stripers all released alive and no bycatch Seems like you could have easily attained a 50 fish commercial limit with quality fish and no waste. Why is this not the standard method of commercial harvest over trawling? You would not even need to pay many deckhands as I am sure you would have people lining up for a chance to fish like that.


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## CJS

I think the fish were caught in the EEZ which is not open to commercial or recreational fishermen?

If fish were that easy to find inside of three miles, fishermen, both recreational amd commercial, would be all over them.


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## gshivar

narfpoit, You are absolutely correct. IMO, hook and line fishing commercially in NC for stripers would have much less waste then the traditional trawling, beach seins and gill nets. Catch your number limit and head for the dock. And actually years ago there was a hook and line fishery for stripers around Manns Harbor. CJS - a few years ago stripers were that thick within 3 miles and yes rec and com were all over them. I think the striper population cycles are very compilicated. I hope I am around long enough to get some more from the surf! best - glenn


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## JAM

Catching 275 Stripes in two days, tells ya where they are, where I have said they have been for several years, behind the Magical EEZ.... Gee Go Figure... JAM


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## dirtyhandslopez

Prap's water temps along the coast might play in as well Jam.


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## bronzbck1

It's all about the bait and it isn't there, so they haven't been there. The coms would rape them anyway


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## dirtyhandslopez

So, they're out in the EEZ feeding up, they're not getting plundered by anyone for a change. Good. Let's hope they all come in to do their thing in the rivers...

What a trip for the both of you, nice one Rob.


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## Art_o_fish_al

Nice edit Rob!


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## AL_N_VB

dirtyhandslopez said:


> Prap's water temps along the coast might play in as well Jam.


Temps have been perfect, maybe too perfect. I can attest that bait is abundant so this research is very interesting and hope may help answer why they are where they at.


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## NTKG

Awesome Rob...

Darin, Could be a lot of different things for sure

Al, the offshore body of fish from some of the stuff i've read is different from the coastal ones? But i don't know enough about them to know really anything in particular. But a coastal availability of them as we all know is down. 

I know a lot of communities in VA have not had the winter retail sales bc of the decline of the fishery for sure.

Between breeding stocks, and getting hammered up and down the coast they definitely are pressured. I wonder how many roe laden fish get poached off the 14th street bridge in Richmond alone each spring? Summer seasons up north, and we've all read about the massive illegal netting and poaching that goes on with them as well. 

I used to think if i was a fish i'd hate to be fatback or a mullet, but a striper's got a damn tough life. Esp with all them yankee's throwing them clams at'em


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## NTKG

I do find it discouraging that the CPO's don't come out at night... Nor seem to ever check the guys fishing the bridge, but always make a point to check the guys fishing the banks, with no coolers and an ultralight.


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## Drumdum

NTKG said:


> Awesome Rob...
> 
> Darin, Could be a lot of different things for sure
> 
> Al, the offshore body of fish from some of the stuff i've read is different from the coastal ones? But i don't know enough about them to know really anything in particular. But a coastal availability of them as we all know is down.
> 
> I know a lot of communities in VA have not had the winter retail sales bc of the decline of the fishery for sure.
> 
> Between breeding stocks, and getting hammered up and down the coast they definitely are pressured. I wonder how many roe laden fish get poached off the 14th street bridge in Richmond alone each spring? Summer seasons up north, and we've all read about the massive illegal netting and poaching that goes on with them as well.
> 
> I used to think if i was a fish i'd hate to be fatback or a mullet, but a striper's got a damn tough life. Esp with all them yankee's throwing them clams at'em


 Neil,I know I'm talking apples and oranges.. BUT,kings do seem to have two different bodies of fish inshore and offshore.. You could be on to something with stripers as well...


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## bronzbck1

The Stripers where working behind my house the other day. The school was a quarter mile long and they were headed north further up the sound. That means a school that size desided to never leave the sound and it is in the 40s. I just write it off as one of the dumbest fish that swims. They are like a blue fish if you find them you catch them. Really no skill needed except when they are dormant.


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## fish militia

As I was told by the lead biologist, these particular fish so far off the beach were roaming this far off, even when the near shore fish stocks were good.

These were old fish. Two days, over 400 fish and a great deal were over 30lbs... and we caught plenty over 45lbs.

So yes, these fish are completely different then fish caught throughout 2000-2008 just off the beach.

These fish were jack hammering menhayden 25 miles out. And yet...there were a ton of bait pods within the 3 mile limit and water temps conducive to hold them.

As far as commercial fishing goes...

The current practice would be fine if...culling was eliminated and the 100 fish per day limit. Just let them set and take to market what they hit and in most cases the commercial season would be over in one day. And yes...the comms would still probably exceed their quota by some amount during this, but it would still only equate to one tenth of the recreational harvest.

So I can put this in plain English... the recreational fisherman hit the stocks the hardest.


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## Drumdum

fish militia said:


> As I was told by the lead biologist, these particular fish so far off the beach were roaming this far off, even when the near shore fish stocks were good.
> 
> These were old fish. Two days, over 400 fish and a great deal were over 30lbs... and we caught plenty over 45lbs.
> 
> So yes, these fish are completely different then fish caught throughout 2000-2008 just off the beach.
> 
> These fish were jack hammering menhayden 25 miles out. And yet...there were a ton of bait pods within the 3 mile limit and water temps conducive to hold them.
> 
> As far as commercial fishing goes...
> 
> The current practice would be fine if...culling was eliminated and the 100 fish per day limit. Just let them set and take to market what they hit and in most cases the commercial season would be over in one day. And yes...the comms would still probably exceed their quota by some amount during this, but it would still only equate to one tenth of the recreational harvest.
> 
> So I can put this in plain English... the recreational fisherman hit the stocks the hardest.


 So,according to what you are saying,there are two different bodies of fish.. At least that body is protected.. Far as coms and recs,recs should go to one caught and kept.. Trawlers should be eliminated from hauling stripers that are killed and discarded.. I honestly believe that coms could get their 50 fish limit with hook and line,spend less money catching,cull fish with much less impact on the fish,and bring a nice cash fish to the dock..


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## dirtyhandslopez

Hands up-stupid question

These offshore fish still need to spawn. It would appear then that they would have to stay well offshore and then do a massive run when the time is right, to the rivers? If that is the case, there should be a time in spring when massive schools of big fish(offshore) are running in the rivers. I've chased the electro boats down here in the James at the fall line and they do have some nice 'uns in the cooler, but if huge offshore schools are coming in, they should jumping the bank cause there isn't enough space for them all in the river, especially if the inshore fish are making the run at the same time....
Or, do they(offshore fish) spawn by different means and never make it inshore?

Very confusing.


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## Garboman

dirtyhandslopez said:


> Hands up-stupid question
> 
> These offshore fish still need to spawn. It would appear then that they would have to stay well offshore and then do a massive run when the time is right, to the rivers? If that is the case, there should be a time in spring when massive schools of big fish(offshore) are running in the rivers. I've chased the electro boats down here in the James at the fall line and they do have some nice 'uns in the cooler, but if huge offshore schools are coming in, they should jumping the bank cause there isn't enough space for them all in the river, especially if the inshore fish are making the run at the same time....
> Or, do they(offshore fish) spawn by different means and never make it inshore?
> 
> Very confusing.


They all spawn in Fresh water, Mate, the largest females spawn in the Potomac in late March, Maryland rivers spawn the most Stripers, especially since Maryland owns the Potomac (side effect of the Civil War). , I seem to remember that the Potomac is the single greatest hatchery for East Coast Stripers, from the book "Striper" by John Cole, which is a great book for a fisherman to read by the way, it is my favorite.

Perhaps they feel more comfortable out 3 miles since relatively little boat traffic out there disrupting either the Stripers or the Fatback.

I have caught my share I reckon, and I remember the Maryland Moratorium had a great effect, and the fish came back, perhaps its time to give them a break for three years or so.


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## ruger2307

*Newbie from Nj*

Hey guys & gals,
I'm a newbie here. So start off by saying hello. I am looking to take a trip down to Nc during the winter months. Was hoping maybe I could get some tips in where to go for stripers (rockfish)lol. 
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Also, if anyone has any questions about fishing in Jersey, dont hesitate to contact me. Now that football is done, my itch for fishing is getting worse. Lol. 
Have a good one. 
Harry


bronzbck1 said:


> The Stripers where working behind my house the other day. The school was a quarter mile long and they were headed north further up the sound. That means a school that size desided to never leave the sound and it is in the 40s. I just write it off as one of the dumbest fish that swims. They are like a blue fish if you find them you catch them. Really no skill needed except when they are dormant.


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## French

NTKG said:


> Awesome Rob...
> 
> Darin, Could be a lot of different things for sure
> 
> Al, the offshore body of fish from some of the stuff i've read is different from the coastal ones? But i don't know enough about them to know really anything in particular. But a coastal availability of them as we all know is down.
> 
> I know a lot of communities in VA have not had the winter retail sales bc of the decline of the fishery for sure.
> 
> Between breeding stocks, and getting hammered up and down the coast they definitely are pressured. I wonder how many roe laden fish get poached off the 14th street bridge in Richmond alone each spring? Summer seasons up north, and we've all read about the massive illegal netting and poaching that goes on with them as well.
> 
> I used to think if i was a fish i'd hate to be fatback or a mullet, but a striper's got a damn tough life. Esp with all them yankee's throwing them clams at'em


I saw a couple dozen big breeder rockfish caught from East Potomac Park in DC. I called DC Game and Fish and National Park Police on every one of them, with car descriptions and license plates. The guys would throw the fish in a trash bag, throw it in the car, and then grab their gear and bail, and walla, no Park Police or game warden. In five years of fishing EPP and Fletchers, I have only had my licensed checked one time. It is abysmal.


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## fishhead

Good stuff Rob ... people need to know, so thanks, and keep it coming please!


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## NTKG

French. The 14th street bridge here is a problem as well. Trash bag, then into trashcans, some of them literally have their friends drive up on teh bridge and they stick it in a vehicle. I've never seen a CPO out there, and I know they get plenty of calls on it.


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## NTKG

Darin,

They say some of the biggest deer don't even bother breeding, as its too risky a behavior for them.

I know its a far fetched thing, but maybe its possible some of these fish don't breed? Although it seems odd being that even introduced stripers in landlocked areas head for feeder creeks, etc during the spring.

It could be our timing of the spawning run? Not sure, my guess from some of the stuff I've seen (almost like other migratory fish) is that water temp only dictates if they are active enough to feed/fight, not if they are there or not. There could be fish spawning now, who knows?

Again it's all speculation, I don't really have anything to back any of that up. But there are reports of fish being outside the EEZ in the past in large numbers. Be it two distinct bodies of fish or what they are, I'm not sure.


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## sand flea

There are plenty of times I log on and have to force myself to bite my tongue, but this is one of the smarter threads on this subject in a long time. And Garboman has it right--Cole's book "Striper" is a great read. Most libraries carry it.

The one issue I have with the theory that there's an inshore group and an offshore group: both must come into brackish/freshwater to spawn. And those spawning areas see fewer fish these days. Overharvest, IMO.


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## fish militia

These offshore fish will/do come inshore to spawn and is the purpose of them being tagged, but they still live offshore.

The Ches Bay, Potomac and the Hudson are the absolute best spawning grounds, but as I was repeatedly told...the spawns were down primarily due to poor spawning grounds. Polluted waters and terrible rains had played a big part in the downturn in recent years.

If we look at the off the chain puppy drum fishing in the sound for the past 2 years, it was due to ridiculous spawns.

Now, those fish are aging out and will not be seen in the sound waters like they have been and there will be a lot of people trying to compare upcoming years to some of the best spawns in recent past--and that can't be done.

The same can be said about the stripers, based on what the researchers said. Sure the fish were hit hard in the harvest, but the spawns that lead to what we saw for several years--were incredible spawns.

And, those types of spawns have not been seen in some time.


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## AL_N_VB

Maybe the big stripers are gone like the big chopper blues . We will have a few around but the numbers will never be the same?


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## NTKG

I would say i've seen more chopper blues in the last 5 years than I've ever seen in my short fishing career.


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## NTKG

the General stated pretty much in summation with things I have read.

Water quality, and discharge rates in the spring have led to poor hatch years, which unfortunately have occurred successively. Coupled with over harvest (More and more I am starting to dislike CR fishing for them especially during prespawn, and in the summer when the temps are high and o2 is low), water quality afterward, lack of food, etc... It's not rocket science that we're going to see less fish.


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## AL_N_VB

NTKG said:


> I would say i've seen more chopper blues in the last 5 years than I've ever seen in my short fishing career.


From the Triangles and further East.


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## Drumdum

AL_N_VB said:


> From the Triangles and further East.


Go to the wrecks here on Hatteras in the spring,you'll see more than you ever have.. BUT inshore I haven't seen big blues but one time since the 80's and that was at Pea Island.. Sandflee was there...


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## Lipyourown

From what I understand, lots of current with stained water (heavy rains) are ideal spawning conditions for stripers. As far as pollution, the Bay (and by extension the Potomac) are cleaner today than they were during the spawns that gave us the epic fishing a decade ago. I think the main problem is overharvest. 

In regards to an offshore sub population of fish...how do we know they were not there at the same time that the inshore waters held fish? It is not like being 3 miles offshore is that much different than being 12 miles out. I heard lots of stories of tuna boats heading out and encountering big stripers 10 miles out during the abundance of a decade ago. They complained of 40# stripers taking their tuna baits. But if there is a sub population, so what anyway? Is this a ploy to harvest in their only sanctuary?

There are less stripers today for a variety of reasons but one reason has the biggest impact and it ain't bad water.


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## fish militia

Yes. This population of offshore fish were there the entire time the inshore fishing was good.

No. No one is trying to open up the offshore population for hunt.

Yes. Heavy rains lead to severe drops in oxygen for spawning fish and also disturbs the bottom where they lay their eggs.

Yes. These fish were over harvested, but if the spawns are low, then there is no bounce back.

There are eight dedicated, year round striper research programs from here to Massachusetts. They tag in spawning grounds, back waters, inshore and offshore. They have a relatively good grasp of what's going on...especially since most of these programs have been around for decades. 

These guys said there had been a couple of good spawns in recent past and that theoretically that should lead to some decent inshore fishing in years to come...as long as one remembers that it takes roughly 5 years just for one of these fish to reach 30 inches.

We saw some of the best schoolie fishing in while in this area, this past fall. It still wasn't amazing, but better than it had been in sometime. That was a direct result of better spawning.


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## Lipyourown

I think 2011 was a good spawn in the Bay, lets hope some of these fish reach spawning age themselves. I assume the schoolies you caught were native to NC? I think your sound fish are a bigger % of the overall population than most realize and I honestly don't know much about the sound water quality down there. What I see in MD are way less breeders, about the same amount of dinks and zero schoolies compared to the height of the population about 8 years ago. 

I don't think the fishing we had back then is sustainable or even natural but it would be nice to get at least half way back. Little things like delaying MDs trophy season a couple weeks would help all states. Each state intercepts these fish at different times so what could the other states do to help the overall rebound?

Very cool video by the way, I'm just a little envious.


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## JamesRiverVa

Just finished reading the book "Striper Wars: An American Fish Story" by Dick Russell that talks about the conservation efforts in the 80's that helped the striper population rebound. Also takes a look at early 21st Century issues and paints a pretty dire picture. Obviously it's not so simplistic as one single factor impacting the population. Pollution from agriculture and private home lawns, runoff from impervious roads and parking lots and loss of wetlands all can hurt the water quality in the estuaries where the stripers spawn; commercial fishing practices can hurt the population not only by virtue of fish actually kept but by culling and via the use of gill nets for other species that leave a lot of "un-kept" stripers dead or dying, the impact of the Omega fleet on the menhaden population in and near the Chesapeake and the ripple effect removing so many of those filter-feeders from an already stressed estuary environment plus the impact that it has on the stripers' food base (the book suggests that many even 30+" stripers are basically, physiologically nearly starving when autopsied and don't have the girth for their length that the average fish in decades past used to have, are far less often found containing menhaden in their stomachs compared to decades ago, and are often eating low-nutrition-for-the-effort stuff that they would rarely eat before) . . . seems to me that ALL of these things impact the stripers to some degree, and removing or lessening ANY of them would likely help at least some. I hope the political will is there this time around to make changes that impact in those areas. The picture painted for the future is pretty dire, and the stories of the politics played by the commercial interests (whether commercial fishing, or agribusiness farming corporations, or developers - all of the above) are pretty depressing.


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## doubleb

in the spring ,huge stripers come up the Potomac river..all the way to little falls, which is were the tide stops. they are also feeding on shad, and ring perch that migrate up the river.. you can go to chain brdge rd and catch em off the banks.. i have seen many caught over 30 lbs.. i,v also have caught em in the tidal basin, and wash channel..alot of the smaller ones stay in the river,, caught many fishin in Bass tournys,, but they wern,t green...


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## BeachLife

fish militia said:


> So I can put this in plain English... the recreational fisherman hit the stocks the hardest.


I'd love to see some reliable stats on that from someone that doesn't have any skin in the game in one way or the other.


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## BeachLife

JamesRiverVa said:


> in the estuaries where the stripers spawn;


I believe its legal for commercial fisherman in NC to drag nets through the estuaries (i.e. a nursery for many species). So you might be onto something!


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## BeachLife

Just to add some more value to this thread. Folks should be aware that there are two distinct groups of striped bass, one is the marine striper that spend a lot of time in the ocean, and the other is the riverine group that never leave the rivers.

I think the political aspect of the striper (and other species) decline isn't widely understood either. For illustrative purposes, do a quick search for "striped bass population decline", then click on an article, then using the "find" feature on your browser type in the word "recreational", then do the same with the word "commercial". Then note the very rare mention of the modern day commercial fishing industry, while most blame is placed on the recreational industry. To further illustrate the political (monetary) aspect of the bias, look at some of the states online "pound net maps" (you can find one in one of my earlier posts). Then ask yourself, how do any fish, stripers or any other fish manage to get past these vast networks of massive nets that are lining the mouth's of our bays and estuaries.

The same situation exists with the flounder industry. Politicians are paid to argue that flounder mature at a couple years of age and die age 5 or 6. While other older studies indicate that many flounder species don't even mature (reproduce) until age 5 or 6. This situation obviously allows the commercial fishing industry to harvest millions of flounder prematurely and before they have even reached breeding age.

There's obviously a lot of things that we could do to remedy some of this. But one of the most obvious things that should be done federally is to ban the use of commercial nets of any type in all of our countries estuaries (fish nurseries). What happens offshore is a little more difficult since it involves international waters and irresponsible foreign nations.


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