# They knew



## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

I anit no genius. But you drag a big ass net through a good school of stripers you're going to catch more than 50 every time. Who could be some foolish not to think culling hasn't always been a unspoken part of trawling.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

I'm with ya on that,and something has been done.. Not what REALLY NEEDS TO BE DONE (imho),but at least it is a start.. Hopefully it will lead to less kills anyway. Just glad they at least recognise the damage done and are at least IN PART doing SOMETHING ABOUT IT...


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## SmoothLures (Feb 13, 2008)

Call the appropriate people if you care. Posting here doesn't help. Not being an ass, just saying.


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## drumchaser (Jan 14, 2003)

Good luck with the appropriate people listening much less acting. Just saying.


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## catman32 (Apr 20, 2005)

*Hey smooth*

Posting here does help. If you dont like it dont reply. How do you you know he hasnt called some one.


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

SmoothLures said:


> Call the appropriate people if you care. Posting here doesn't help. Not being an ass, just saying.


I like to post here as I feel not everyone is in the flow of informaton. So the more people that find out the better.

AND I need to rant somewhere about this stuff as it really pis## me off.


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

Drumdum said:


> I'm with ya on that,and something has been done.. Not what REALLY NEEDS TO BE DONE (imho),but at least it is a start.. Hopefully it will lead to less kills anyway. Just glad they at least recognise the damage done and are at least IN PART doing SOMETHING ABOUT IT...


I just feel it took bad press, and not- let's do what's right- To get something done.

Stripers up north have even a more sacred status than they do down here.
I feel N.C. has been discovered for their in general lame resource management in favor of commerical fishing
This event was so horrendous the had to do sometning to save face.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*Disgusting Yes*

but the DMF rules cause most of their problems.. If you think Stripers are the only things being discarded in the Ocean and Sounds, then you are sadly mistaken... It should be a straight up number of pounds, reguargless of size.. With nothing being thrown back...NO WASTE.....

Hook and Line Rules for recs are just as stupid.... How many Flounder do you guys need to catch to even find a keeper in VA. waters????? How many of those shorts survive... 

Organizations for example like the CCA, are in favor of catch and release.. Do you want to know why????? That way no rules apply to them....And there is more for them and less for someone else...

The 3 mile EEZ was their brain child to stop comms but it backfiered on them when it included recs..... 

DMF's have not been around that long .... Some of these people have been in there jobs for decades.... Saw a great show where they took a NOAA Fisheries boat and pulled Commericial gear (Problem was the boat was too big for the net and it allowed most of the catch to escape) At the same time less then 1/4 mile away a Commericail Fisherman pulled his gear.... He out caught he NOAA boat 50 to one... It was put together by the Rhode Island Watermen...Great vid... I'll see if I can't find it and post a link..

My question is do you want Inept (white shirt and tie guys) telling you the state of fisheries, when they can't even catch fish???????
If they can't catch it, it must not be there...

They are Agenda Based, and the agenda's writing is on the wall.....The answer "NO" requires no work at all....

From a personal stand point I see their folly on a daily basis, you know there is trouble when Enforcement can't stay up with all the new rules...

Last year for example the pretty much shut down Grey Trout (one a day limit) prior to last year I have only caught 2 Grey Trout in the Past nine years. So at the on-set I thought to myself, "they might be right on this one", until I go out and start catching over 100 of these fish a day... Most in the Keeper Range... Everytime I went out on the Yak I would blister Grey trout.... So were they sampling in the wrong area, or are they just out and out liars??????

On a nother note last year was one of the best BlueFin Tuna Bites in History..This year it is being considered for the Endangered List... 

So far this is waht we have to look foward to 

BlueFin to be listed as endangered...
Limit 2 Wahoo per Boat
Bottom Fishing Limited to 240feet...
Specks Closed
Grey One a day
Drum PuP one a day...

They are doing to fisheries what they did to manufacturing back in the 90's... Making it IMPOSSIBLE for an American to Fish for a living, be it Sport or Com.

Can you say IMPORTED Everything....I miss the days of self reliance....

People in Charge are Clueless....

If you think any of the other countries of the world follow any of OUR regs I have a Beach Front Lot for sale in Wyoming.... 

We are not the World, we are just a Drop in the Bucket... and it should be our right to take care of our People... Not waste millions of metric tons of fish just because someones says they are by-catch....The whole systems needs revamped...

I will stick to what My Father and Grandfater taught me, if its big enough to fillet and get a meal out of... It's whats for dinner...

JMHO 
JAM


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## Daddydobber (Mar 28, 2006)

jam said:


> but the dmf rules cause most of their problems.. If you think stripers are the only things being discarded in the ocean and sounds, then you are sadly mistaken... It should be a straight up number of pounds, reguargless of size.. With nothing being thrown back...no waste.....
> 
> Hook and line rules for recs are just as stupid.... How many flounder do you guys need to catch to even find a keeper in va. Waters????? How many of those shorts survive...
> 
> ...




totally agree 100%


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

JAM said:


> but the DMF rules cause most of their problems.. If you think Stripers are the only things being discarded in the Ocean and Sounds, then you are sadly mistaken... It should be a straight up number of pounds, reguargless of size.. With nothing being thrown back...NO WASTE.....
> 
> Hook and Line Rules for recs are just as stupid.... How many Flounder do you guys need to catch to even find a keeper in VA. waters????? How many of those shorts survive...
> 
> ...


 I'm with ya on the flounder laws.. When they went away from the 13" reg,imho,it was one of the biggest mistakes ever as far as promoting a bigger population for the southern flounder in the sound.. You see,anything under 13 is going to be a male,those over 14 are almost always female flounder.. Think about it,reg now over 15 for southern,folks catch mostly 13 to 14".. They should have,imo,made a size limit of 13,and a catch limit of 5 a person.. In this way it would have stopped some of the guthooked fish being discarded.. As most have witnessed,many small flounder can't always be caught and released,they have the dern hook in their gills or in their stomach,thus,dead fish put back in the water.. 

As far as the trawlers,and dropnetters in the ocean,with kings and stripers they should go back to a hook n line fishery with a poundage limit and be done with it.. More selective,less waste,cheaper harvest in the long run... jmho...

Grey trout have been scarse in the past,and as you stated they were in decent numbers this past season.. Although,if you think about it,by them being in some numbers this year,and folks not being able to keep,it allowed some to lay some eggs instead of being released in the greese... jmo

The bottomfishing regs are so complex,that I really don't think the avg Joe can fish for them anymore without getting illegal somewhere down the road.

As has been said before,common sense should rule,and it has not for many years.. These regs with no REAL COMMON SENSE SCIENCE involved are going to destroy both coms and recs as far as the resource goes.. Eventually there will be nofishzones,that's when everyone will wake up and it will be too late... 

Not really sure what the answer is,but a young dude fresh outta college,or a suited up lawyer implimenting regs for fish they've never caught or figured out where they are ain't the solution to the problem... jmo


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*Kenny*

Big Bill and Ernie have been learnin me a bit... The whole thing in NC get with the plan or get out.... If you raise a valid Point and are on one of the fisheries boards, and it does not fall in line with their agenda, you are not gonna be there long... 

I am with ya Catch Shares and MPA's are coming right for us..Sadly with all the other nonsense going on in this country it will just be swept under the rug, blown right through and like you said then it will be too late... 

Dam shame, would have liked to do what we do the rest of my life.(glad I got it as long as I got it).. Feel worse for the Kids.. we have out lived our usefulness on this planet, the inmates are in charge of the asylum.. I know I am old because I understand nothing....

Confused and Fustrated 

JAM


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## SmoothLures (Feb 13, 2008)

drumchaser said:


> Good luck with the appropriate people listening much less acting. Just saying.


They're certainly not on this forum reading. I'm with y'all, not against you. But you have to take action, whether it be in vain or not. Your voice counts, but only if you voice it.


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## fishhook54 (Oct 2, 2009)

voices count only if you find people to listen ,and people that can make the changes for the people


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## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

Right on JAM. But your information is a bit out dated. I wear a blue or maroon shirt with my suits . I even have a purple one for a brown suit I have. White shirts are just too boring, but I'll thrown one on every now and then to go old school.

For passing information on, heck yeah do it. A lot of us work in DC and have friends and acquaintance in NOAA. One of my friend's wife works there and I certainly pass on the perspective from here on to her.


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## redhorse9902 (Jan 5, 2008)

I have always been in favor of creel limits rather than size limits. Some people would rather have the smaller fish to eat rather than the bigger ones. For example, with flounder set a creel of 5 a day. For example, on the lake here the crappie size limit is 10". there will be days when you will have to catch 50 to get 20 over 10". When the water is cool, they stand a chance to make it. But once the water starts warming, diffrent story. So many released fish just don't make it. Was at the point one day druing a drum run. Father caught a big drum and preceded to put it in a cooler. One of the taggers cam up and tried to get him to release. Got in a discussion with the final word being how many of the tagged fish had he ever heard from again, which he was unable to answer.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

redhorse9902 said:


> I have always been in favor of creel limits rather than size limits. Some people would rather have the smaller fish to eat rather than the bigger ones. For example, with flounder set a creel of 5 a day. For example, on the lake here the crappie size limit is 10". there will be days when you will have to catch 50 to get 20 over 10". When the water is cool, they stand a chance to make it. But once the water starts warming, diffrent story. So many released fish just don't make it. Was at the point one day druing a drum run. Father caught a big drum and preceded to put it in a cooler. One of the taggers cam up and tried to get him to release. Got in a discussion with the final word being how many of the tagged fish had he ever heard from again, which he was unable to answer.


 Have had several of my tag fish recaught.. Have caught several tagged fish,the guy must have been a newbee at tagging... Believe me,in general,it takes a few years to have a recovery of a tag or to catch a tagged fish.. Reason,there are plenty of big red drum,maybe not like the 30's,but more than I can remember in my 35plus years of fishing the obx for them.....

As far as the creel limit,it's a good thing,and in total agreement.. It would help,not hurt the resource in terms of letting bigger fish do the nasty and get some eggs in the water... jmho..



skunk king said:


> Right on JAM. But your information is a bit out dated. I wear a blue or maroon shirt with my suits . I even have a purple one for a brown suit I have. White shirts are just too boring, but I'll thrown one on every now and then to go old school.
> 
> For passing information on, heck yeah do it. A lot of us work in DC and have friends and acquaintance in NOAA. One of my friend's wife works there and I certainly pass on the perspective from here on to her.


 Information a bit outdated?????? I contend that the folks you are talking about are the ones that are eventually going to destroy our right to fish... They are ill informed,even though they consider themselves (scientific and very literate) they are incorrect if they think the solution is to start nofishzones everywhere to help the resource.. Fish run in cycles,as do the trout that are being frozen out right now,and eventually "THROUGH MOTHER NATURE",not regulation they do come back... Regs are important,although if used as a tool to close down fishing,as in nofishzones ect.. I have no use for them.... JMHO


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## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

Drumdum said:


> Information a bit outdated?????? I contend that the folks you are talking about are the ones that are eventually going to destroy our right to fish... They are ill informed,even though they consider themselves (scientific and very literate) they are incorrect if they think the solution is to start nofishzones everywhere to help the resource.. Fish run in cycles,as do the trout that are being frozen out right now,and eventually "THROUGH MOTHER NATURE",not regulation they do come back... Regs are important,although if used as a tool to close down fishing,as in nofishzones ect.. I have no use for them.... JMHO


I was making a funny about wearing a white shirt and tie. The outdated information is we wear colored shirts now, not just white ones. But if you have to explain the joke, then it probably wasn't that funny :/


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

skunk king said:


> I was making a funny about wearing a white shirt and tie. The outdated information is we wear colored shirts now, not just white ones. But if you have to explain the joke, then it probably wasn't that funny :/


 Maybe to some,but not to me...... Watched these fed reg guys down here for the last 10yrs,making regs for self interest groups,you know,hanging under the cloak of "wanting to help the resource" as in PLOVERS and such.. Well,now it is in "helping the fishstocks survive",not for the user groups,but for those that feel "fish have feelings too".. To be honest,I'm tired,tired of normal folks that really fish for a living or love fishing in general being told they are idiots as far as REAL FISH MANAGEMENT.. You know,the feds that have done such an excellent job and all.. Why not make nofishzones a normal practice to protect the resource?? Not saying your joke isn't funny,just not to me.. 

I feel that you in all probability feel the same as I, you have to see at least some of what I'm speaking of.. ???


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## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

I see all of it your way. My joke was 100% white collar vs. blue collar. Government has screwed us , no 2 ways about it. I'm one of the unfortunate that has to wear a suit to work


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## redhorse9902 (Jan 5, 2008)

Drumdum, caught 1 myself saw several more caught but these were DMF tags. Just not sure, the way i've seen some handled, that alot didn't wind up as crab bait. Taking pics, hands in gills, etc.Sure would like to see the creel limits though.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*No One has to do anything*

"I'm one of the unfortunate that has to wear a suit to work"

Before moving to Hatteras Island I was a DOD GS-12-step 5 Deployable Combat Comunications Civilian with the USAF... I did not agree how things were going (I believed we were being to soft) wanted to go more hard... Fell on deaf ears... I quit and walked away from it all... No One has to do anything is my Point....This was America.....

NOAA is EVIL, DMF's are EVIL... IMHO anyone that works for them is, well, EVIL as well...They are not there to sustain a resource, they are there to sustain and quantify their own JOBS.... We used to call it EMPIRE BUILDING...

Its a shame that the Greatest Generation in History (Our Grandparents) who did the right thing, won ww2... Wanted to make the world a better place, was followed by the WORST Generation in History, their Kids, our parents...Some how became GREED Infused and it was all for ME ME ME and screw the other Guy.....

Oh well pretty soon Govt will be in every aspect of our lives.... They will tell you what to have for Breakfast, oh wait they all ready are...

Agenda Based Agencies, by people who actualy believe that they KNOW WHATS BEST for Everyones else.... Is and will be our demise.....

I will not play by THEIR Rules, I report to someone a lot higher then them...

I will continue to do it the way my Grandad did it, with Integrety and Morality...

I sleep well at night and can look at myself in the mirror.... 

I will fight and fight and fight till I take my last Breath....

After that, I've got some folks that I will Haunt for EVER...

JAM


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

Maybe it needs to be a hook and line fishery only


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

Fishman said:


> Maybe it needs to be a hook and line fishery only


And set limits on number of hooks allowed to be dragged..


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## drumchaser (Jan 14, 2003)

Fishman said:


> Maybe it needs to be a hook and line fishery only


Gamefish status would be wonderful.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

Hook and Line would be great, and it would provide more jobs at critical times of the Year....

GameFish status NO WAY.....Thats the CCA more for me less for you mentality..

EEZ should be taken out of the mix as well...

JMHO

JAM


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## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

If they say the recs are the ones with the largest harvest and kills(I doubt the numbers, but anyway), then why not let us sell to the comms without getting that incredibly expensive license? That way everyone wins, the comms will still make money selling to distributors, the recs get the joy of catching fish. If they claim it would be harder to manage, then what's the purpose of the new federal license if not to enable use recs to be regulated as comms? The only restriction I would have in this situation is the recs have to use hooks and lines with no long lining.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

JAM said:


> Hook and Line would be great, and it would provide more jobs at critical times of the Year....
> 
> GameFish status NO WAY.....Thats the CCA more for me less for you mentality..
> 
> ...


 Been saying that for quite a few years now,not just for stripers either,for kings,and other fish like spainish ect.. Would stop much of the waste,allow them to get a catch that hasn't been "flooded" so they can make more $ per lb on the market.. However don't agree with the EEZ suggestion,we all have that right to agree to disagree.. If everyone listens to cca there will be a federal agency that eventually will end it all... jmho...


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

surffshr said:


> And set limits on number of hooks allowed to be dragged..


I'm not talking about long lining now it would be just like the recreational guys no more than two hooks like a mojo and a bucktail type of rig.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

I hate to poke this bear, but the BS continues up in the Chesapeake.

I know lots of you hate the authorities stepping in, but the fact is these fish don't belong to Marylanders. They don't belong to Bankers. They don't belong to the guys up in Jersey or Massachusetts. They belong to all of us, and when an individual state lets this kind of crap happen they deserve to lose the ability to control the fishery.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

sand flea said:


> I hate to poke this bear, but the BS continues up in the Chesapeake.
> 
> I know lots of you hate the authorities stepping in, but the fact is these fish don't belong to Marylanders. They don't belong to Bankers. They don't belong to the guys up in Jersey or Massachusetts. They belong to all of us, and when an individual state lets this kind of crap happen they deserve to lose the ability to control the fishery.


 To some degree I agree Matt.. Although,just as with our beaches here in Hatteras,the fed gov can no longer be trusted to *fairly protect a resource.*

Many enviros with their own agendas have infiltrated many powerful positions in the fed gov especially doi... It would be hard for me to change my opinion of fed control when you look at what is happening in Cal and is beginning to happen in Fla with nfz's.. 

http://pierandsurf.com/fishing-forum/showthread.php?t=83535


Look at this link.. Seabass do not take that long to grow,and can rebuild numbers fairly quickly,so if this kind of reg (which went on last year as well) continues,it proves the point.. Seabass and other fish over the ezz should be protected by the feds,although they will eventually step out of bounds even there.. Let alone take away the states ability to control their own fisheries.. They are also looking at preserving wrecks,and I have no problem with not allowing anchoring,although they will overstep and not even allow drifting over.. The thought of closing the "offshore point" to offshore trolling and making into a nfz is in the works.. This coupled with seabass,wrecks,other nfz's,the ability to manage what the state manages will eventually be the end.. Not that the state hasn't made a mess of it,just that the feds will "FIX IT" for good and neither com nor rec will get it back.. Trust me,they WILL NEVER give it back,too many other groups with their people in place to allow that......... Bear in mind that this is ALL jmho,although it has been on full display in our dealings with "another fed agency"...


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Kenny, I hear you and don't disagree. It'd be best if the ASMFC wasn't corrupt and ineffective. It's like our only choices are corrupt state management or clueless federal management. Meanwhile, we all whistle past the graveyard as stocks decline and we head into another population crash like we had 25 years ago.


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## jeffreyweeks (Feb 5, 2009)

I have interviewed the director of the DMF and the chairman of the MFC quite a few times and I can tell you with 100% certainty that they monitor the NC fishing message boards. 

I'm not saying it changes their minds or does any good one or another...but I am saying that they and many others involved in the gov watch these boards religiously. That is not speculation it is fact.

Again, I don't know how much it helps...I think it does some and matters more each year...and I am as frustrated as anyone...but at least I can tell you whatever side you are on the vents ARE read.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

sand flea said:


> Kenny, I hear you and don't disagree. It'd be best if the ASMFC wasn't corrupt and ineffective. It's like our only choices are corrupt state management or clueless federal management. Meanwhile, we all whistle past the graveyard as stocks decline and we head into another population crash like we had 25 years ago.


 I'm with ya 100%,just wish states would wake up.. Maybe with "the big "B" out of the state senate there will be changes in the way NCDMF operates,maybe... The flounder law was the worst.. Those southern flounder would already be good to go,had they just left limit for soundside fish at what it was,then have a creel limit of 5 or something resonable... A lot of what they do makes no sense to me,either from a com point of view or from the recs side...
Even having said all that,you are most certianly right to deem the feds as clueless on managing the resource.. jmo..



jeffreyweeks said:


> I have interviewed the director of the DMF and the chairman of the MFC quite a few times and I can tell you with 100% certainty that they monitor the NC fishing message boards.
> 
> I'm not saying it changes their minds or does any good one or another...but I am saying that they and many others involved in the gov watch these boards religiously. That is not speculation it is fact.
> 
> Again, I don't know how much it helps...I think it does some and matters more each year...and I am as frustrated as anyone...but at least I can tell you whatever side you are on the vents ARE read.



*GOOD..*


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

Think it's bad now?

Wait until the Feds start implementing catch shares.

Then none of the local guys will be able to make a living - commercial or recreational.


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## Lipyourown (May 11, 2005)

Newsjeff said:


> Think it's bad now?
> 
> Wait until the Feds start implementing catch shares.
> 
> Then none of the local guys will be able to make a living - commercial or recreational.


Plenty of recs will still catch and release, just like yall do with the big drum.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Lipyourown said:


> Plenty of recs will still catch and release, just like yall do with the big drum.


 If "special interest" gets involved with this,as they do most things federal,c&r may also be on the table...


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## twitch (Jan 29, 2008)

drumchaser said:


> Gamefish status would be wonderful.


Gamefish status  :--|

A rod and reel commercial fishery for those with prior landings in the fishery is the answer. There is no need to penalize the other two commercial groups for the crap that has taken place in the trawl season. Unneeded over regulation is going to the death of this sport we call fishing, be it recreational or commercial. What we need is practical solutions to problems, not knee jerk reactions with disastrous results and unintended consequences.


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## Frightnight (Dec 15, 2010)

Any all conversation about this matter is better than doing nothing, but there is a post on this forum with a bunch of numbers and e-mails if you all want to try to put some pressure. I already emailed every e-mail I could find, and I am not from NC. I was there about 3 weeks ago, striper fishing. I released every fish I caught. I am from Rhode Island, and you are right, they are much more cherished here. I don't mean by anglers, i just meabt, our government has a total poundage limit for the year, then it is shut down, no waste, and they do the same thing in Massachusetts, so I hope NC can get with a better program, cuz it hurts all of us.


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## twitch (Jan 29, 2008)

Frightnight said:


> Any all conversation about this matter is better than doing nothing, but there is a post on this forum with a bunch of numbers and e-mails if you all want to try to put some pressure. I already emailed every e-mail I could find, and I am not from NC. I was there about 3 weeks ago, striper fishing. I released every fish I caught. I am from Rhode Island, and you are right, they are much more cherished here. I don't mean by anglers, i just meabt, our government has a total poundage limit for the year, then it is shut down, no waste, and they do the same thing in Massachusetts, so I hope NC can get with a better program, cuz it hurts all of us.


NC has a commercial quota, which is 480,480lbs(per ASMFC) for the ocean, with 3 gear categories. The quota system is no different in RI. The problem is with one gear category, trawling, not drop netting or the beach seine season just trawling. 
To the best of my knowledge, RI just like NC, has no rec quota in the Atlantic ocean, just minimum length and creel limit. NC does need to get with the program and modify rules for the types of gear allowed to participate in the fishery for sure.

No waste in the RI fishery...you wouldn't be pulling our leg would ya??


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## Frightnight (Dec 15, 2010)

hahaha,,, Twitch, thanks for the info,,, I am sure there is some sort of waste, but I have never heard, or seen anything like waht is going on down there, up here in RI. I was actually out on a charter bost the day of the fish fish kill there, and I was shocked. I don't know what the boats are doing here different to avoid that kind of waste. But I have a few friends that are commercial guys, and I have been out on a comercial boat, and never seen anything like that. Worse I seen was them disgard a few large sunfish, and a few sharks. But, I did only go out once.


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