# 2015 Rockfish Regulations



## Penn626

http://coastal-fisherman.com/breaking-news.cfm?id=AFB4977C-5056-9F21-09A0501C836915E3


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## Padwas

Hope this will push through! And be strict with poaching/poachers!


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## Penn626

I agree 100%


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## bluefish1928

I like the direction they are going towards but I think one part will do more harm than good.

I would like to see a slot limit for the spring trophy run in the bay. 36 incher+ almost ensures all fish killed are females. 

increasing minimum size from 18 inches to 20- that is great


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## Penn626

What a fact on the 36" limit.... Most of all the keepers during trophy season that are 35" plus are loaded with eggs.... Good point


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## kurazy kracka

bluefish1928 said:


> I like the direction they are going towards but I think one part will do more harm than good.
> 
> I would like to see a slot limit for the spring trophy run in the bay. 36 incher+ almost ensures all fish killed are females.
> 
> increasing minimum size from 18 inches to 20- that is great


That's what I think too. Look at the red drum. Same thing happened to them and a 18-27" slot was put in place. Now they are very plentiful.


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## Tracker01

Take a picture of the fish a release it. If you are not going to mount it ,let it spawn .


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## CJS

Notice anything about the commercial limits . . .36" maximum and 18" minimum. 

It will be interesting to see what charter boats have to say about the proposed regs.


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## transamsam98

The new proposed regs suck. Unfortunately the Chesapeake is not being allowed to submit any research on our catch and are just being lumped in with everyone else. If they had let our information stand they would see that we catch primarily male fish in the bay. It will be very interesting to see how much more they will try to break off in us in 2016 cause once they get a little they will try to take more.


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## kurazy kracka

transamsam98 said:


> The new proposed regs suck. Unfortunately the Chesapeake is not being allowed to submit any research on our catch and are just being lumped in with everyone else. If they had let our information stand they would see that we catch primarily male fish in the bay. It will be very interesting to see how much more they will try to break off in us in 2016 cause once they get a little they will try to take more.


what about trophy season where everyone and their mother takes big breeders


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## transamsam98

Think about this for trophy season, md bay season is set up to start when the spawn is 3/4 over and we only fish on that migratory stock for 3-4 weeks and tipicly by week 3 and 4 we primarily catch the males anyway. This can be affected by weather patterns to an extent. So I pose the question should we be penalized as much as the coast ? Now also think about this the coast gets the reading stock the rest of the year and the northern states fish them for upwards of 4 months. How can we possibly have the effect on the stock that they do?


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## transamsam98

We also allow catch and release during the spawn in a once primary spawning ground, do you not think that getting rid of that would decrease the mortality ? The catch and release season is not being touched just an FYI and that is a scary thought as a 36 inch min is going to increase the shore / bait fishermens mortality rate during trophy season when we have other options for conservation.


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## transamsam98

Honestly a maximum size would be extremely beneficial at protecting the breeding stock but it would require every state to adopt it to truly help.


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## kurazy kracka

I agree the max size would be the best option but it doesn't seem like that will happen, instead the new regulations will just make it MORE of the big breeders being kept. I've read mortality rate is very low on stripers in cold water (pending they weren't deep hooked, and circles should be used only on them anyhow)


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## transamsam98

In reguard to the breeders coming in to spawn mortality should not be the only concern the stress alone can be devistating. Unfortunately most of us fishermen are being reactive instead of proactive especially considering the bay and that alone will be our downfall.


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## transamsam98

That's also without touching on the summertime fishery the high number of throw backs will sky rocket until the stocks get a chance to catch up to our new minimum size.


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## kurazy kracka

drop it to 1 fish a person in the bay and you'd probably see a huge jump in numbers. I doubt the charters would be going out nearly as often (suck for them too but ive watched how they handle fish, not very delicately) and the rec's prolly wouldn't be out on the water every day either taking 2 a person.


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## jlentz

transamsam98 said:


> So I pose the question should we be penalized as much as the coast ?


Really? They are proposing a cut from 2 fish to one fish for the coast. I do not think that any of this is finalized yet but that is a 50% reduction for us on the coast. Last I read the numbers they were proposing were reducing the bay a smaller percentage than the coast. Every other state looks at Maryland's trophy fishery regulations as the most harmful to the stock and I believe that to be true. We can keep making these small reductions of harvest but the way we are headed eventually we will see another moratorium.

John


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## QBALL

i remember when they had the 34" regulation. there were a whole lot of dead fish just under 34" floating on the water which to me was a waste. it just help kill more fish that werent keepers.


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## kurazy kracka

jlentz said:


> Really? They are proposing a cut from 2 fish to one fish for the coast. I do not think that any of this is finalized yet but that is a 50% reduction for us on the coast. Last I read the numbers they were proposing were reducing the bay a smaller percentage than the coast. Every other state looks at Maryland's trophy fishery regulations as the most harmful to the stock and I believe that to be true. We can keep making these small reductions of harvest but the way we are headed eventually we will see another moratorium.
> 
> John


thank you! I don't understand how people say that trophy season doesn't have a big effect on these fish? you are catching them when they are about to spawn and full of eggs thus taking away hundreds of billions of eggs being laid. trophy season is based much off of greed down here.
and as far as most being done spawning, i highly doubt that.


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## transamsam98

John , step back and think about this the coast has been allowed 2 fish per person over 28inches for over a decade and retain the stocks of big fish for longer periods of time. Maryland has been 1 trophy fish per person since they opened the fishery back up. So the coast finally is on par with the bay on 1 trophy fish. If we do indeed get stuck with a 36 inch minimum that means once it reaches va waters it can be kept at 28inches. Do not get sucked into the mentality thar it is only a spawning fish while here, while it may not be ready to drop eggs while out on the coast you best believe it is still prepping for the next round. But if you would like to believe the bay is responsible for the biggest spawn kill I will gladly take the compliment as we must be superior fishermen to kill more in less time and less fish per trip.


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## jlentz

Sam take a step back and think about the numbers of fish taken from the bay vs the coastal waters. Maryland coastal waters are no comparison to the bay waters. The volume of area that is legal to fish in the coastal waters is minuscule when compared to the volume of waters in the bay. The seasons is another thing that favors the harvest of fish in the bay waters. Sure the coastal season is open year round but there is only two times a year that we see fish in any numbers, the spring run and the fall run, if we are lucky. The Chesapeake bay is open mid April through mid December with fish available that whole time. Different classes of fish but there is always fish to be taken during that season. The fish taken during the summer months in the coastal waters can be counted on one hand, not so during the summer months in the Chesapeake. How many Charter boats are there in the bay that fish the whole season, conservatively I would say several hundreds. Do you know how many inshore charters there are out of Ocean city? I can count them on my two hands and they only fish the spring and fall run if it even happens. Comparing Bay to coastal waters in number of fish harvested is not even close.

John


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## StriperSlayerG1

transamsam98 said:


> John , step back and think about this the coast has been allowed 2 fish per person over 28inches for over a decade and retain the stocks of big fish for longer periods of time. Maryland has been 1 trophy fish per person since they opened the fishery back up. So the coast finally is on par with the bay on 1 trophy fish. If we do indeed get stuck with a 36 inch minimum that means once it reaches va waters it can be kept at 28inches. Do not get sucked into the mentality thar it is only a spawning fish while here, while it may not be ready to drop eggs while out on the coast you best believe it is still prepping for the next round. But if you would like to believe the bay is responsible for the biggest spawn kill I will gladly take the compliment as we must be superior fishermen to kill more in less time and less fish per trip.


That's a good point honestly. It should be if you are surf fishing let it be lets say 25 and if you are on a charter boat 18. JMO


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## CJS

This is about the reasoning I expected to hear from the charter side.


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## NTKG

jlentz said:


> Really? They are proposing a cut from 2 fish to one fish for the coast. I do not think that any of this is finalized yet but that is a 50% reduction for us on the coast. Last I read the numbers they were proposing were reducing the bay a smaller percentage than the coast. Every other state looks at Maryland's trophy fishery regulations as the most harmful to the stock and I believe that to be true. We can keep making these small reductions of harvest but the way we are headed eventually we will see another moratorium.
> 
> John


+1


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## transamsam98

I give, Maryland's bay fishery is most of the problem and the rockfish are in turmoil , we need a moratorium again it's time to close down the bay !


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## transamsam98

In all actuality I could care less about the 20 inch fish in the summer, is it going to suck yes are we going to injure and kill more undersized fish of course but we will still get our limits. The 36 inch fish in the trophy season is horse crap. Remember our year when we couldn't keep anything from 35-41 inches, politics that's what stiffs us every time on the bay, not conservation.


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## kurazy kracka

transamsam98 said:


> In all actuality I could care less about the 20 inch fish in the summer, is it going to suck yes are we going to injure and kill more undersized fish of course *but we will still get our limits.* The 36 inch fish in the trophy season is horse crap. Remember our year when we couldn't keep anything from 35-41 inches, politics that's what stiffs us every time on the bay, not conservation.


why can't you just enjoy C&R and not have to get a limit every time? I would fully support and C&R only season for a few years.


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## Tracker01

I guess Maryland won't be satisfied until there are no Watermen left.


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## transamsam98

Agreed Tracker01 they will kill us off soon enough. Kracka I don't take the fish home anyway on a charter so if they decided to turn them all loose they can turn them all loose but when running a charter you rarely run into people who want do that. Personally I do not see the point in harrassing a fish or an animal injuring it and then turning it loose wich is why when I am fishing myself I obtain a limit and leave.


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## StriperSlayerG1

kurazy kracka said:


> why can't you just enjoy C&R and not have to get a limit every time? I would fully support and C&R only season for a few years.


The problem is the poachers who do not practice catch and release, they just keep anything. The people like transamsam98 respect the Chesapeake and see REAL results that could help. I can agree with Transamsam98.


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## zam

Why even worry so much about one of the most plentiful fish in the bay? I usually fish over 100 times for Rockfish in an average year and will usually only get skunked a couple times during the early spring and late fall, on the other hand I haven't caught a Weakfish in about 20 years, back then you could catch them one after another all day long, but still people worry more about Rockfish then Weakfish. people should get their priorities right before they destroy the entire fishery. All people care about is raising the Rockfish population to ridiculous levels because its their favorite fish to catch, without even considering that it could lead to serious harm to the ecosystem


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## kurazy kracka

StriperSlayerG1 said:


> The problem is the poachers who do not practice catch and release, they just keep anything. The people like transamsam98 respect the Chesapeake and see REAL results that could help. I can agree with Transamsam98.


That's a huge issue too especially with shore based bay anglers. Only thing you can do then is call DNR. I call them n they respond very quickly and take it seriously. They are spread too thin to enforce every where. I know that the ones that enforce in OC have to do the entire area from Cambridge there.

I haven't caught a weakie in at least 15 years myself. Used to get em in OC and the bay


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## jlentz

The weakfish is a whole other mess. What do you think the rec and comm fisherman were saying as that fishery was collapsing. Pretty much the same things the rockfish fisherman are saying now. They said things are fine as they fought against a reduction in harvest. We used to catch weakfish from New Jersey to Virginia and when the numbers were good no one thought it could get as bad as it is now. Now their excuse is that it is a cycylic thing, I am still waiting for the cycle to run its course but not holding my breath. When the harvest laws work more to most fishermans benefits they don't complain. How many complaints do you hear when they increase the legal harvest? Not many. Do a small reduction in harvest and most people will complain. If the limit in the bay was 25 fish per person that is what they people would keep even though they have no use for that many fish. For some reason they use it as a measure of the superior fishing ability. The same things being said now were being said as the rockfish numbers declined in the 80's. Why does MD think it is alright to only reduce our harvest by 20.5% while the other states that agree to the ASMFC requirements are tentatively reducing their harvest by 25%? In my opinion anyone saying the rockfish are not in trouble because the Chesapeake bay fishing is good are not looking at the whole picture. Coastal stocks are way down, just look at the reports from the last few years. Take a look at the results of some of the coastal rockfish tournaments the last few years, at least the ones that were not cancelled due to lack of fish and therefore lack of interest. Most of the fish being caught in the bay now are probably from the class of 2011, the last year with a decent young of young of year of index. I am not going to go into details here as this post is long enough but I would recommend that those saying we do not need to do a big reduction in harvest numbers research the migration patterns and life cycle of the Chesapeake Bay stock as it is the most important stock to the health of the rockfish stocks.

John


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## Tracker01

The first thing I would stop are the gill netters. The second thing I would stop are the guys I see keeping under sized fish. There are bigger problems in the bay that need too be addressed. Maybe they need too have it where it's only legal too catch stripers with a rod and reel. No netting or trout lines. And only legal size fish.


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## jlentz

Tracker01 said:


> The first thing I would stop are the gill netters. The second thing I would stop are the guys I see keeping under sized fish. There are bigger problems in the bay that need too be addressed. Maybe they need too have it where it's only legal too catch stripers with a rod and reel. No netting or trout lines. And only legal size fish.


Typical response, blame everyone else but yourself, make cuts for the other guy but not me. No where in your response do you mention accepting a lower limit for yourself could help the stock. I would hope you believe it would and maybe it is just lower on your priorities and therefore you did not list any reduction of recreational harvest. Also concerning the poachers, keeping of undersized fish, and also released fish mortality, you do realize that when the regulations are set these are factored in. I have no more of a problem with the gill netters as long as they follow the laws than I do with the recreational anglers who also follow the law. The problem comes when no one accepts responsibility or the consequences of over fishing. I know no one expected the numbers of fish that were being harvested illegally with the illegal use of gill nets the past 2 years, and I am sure those numbers were not accounted for which kind of brings us back to the question of why MD is only talking of reducing their harvest by 20.5%.

John


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## Tracker01

Sorry to disappoint you but I keep no fish that I catch. So no not a typical response. I have not keeped a fish in over 15 to 20 years. I also do take charter trips but I myself do not take any fish or do I even eat fish. So that dog won't hunt.


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## StriperSlayerG1

jlentz said:


> Typical response, blame everyone else but yourself, make cuts for the other guy but not me. No where in your response do you mention accepting a lower limit for yourself could help the stock. I would hope you believe it would and maybe it is just lower on your priorities and therefore you did not list any reduction of recreational harvest. Also concerning the poachers, keeping of undersized fish, and also released fish mortality, you do realize that when the regulations are set these are factored in. I have no more of a problem with the gill netters as long as they follow the laws than I do with the recreational anglers who also follow the law. The problem comes when no one accepts responsibility or the consequences of over fishing. I know no one expected the numbers of fish that were being harvested illegally with the illegal use of gill nets the past 2 years, and I am sure those numbers were not accounted for which kind of brings us back to the question of why MD is only talking of reducing their harvest by 20.5%.
> 
> John



No where did he say he kept fish nor did he say anything you said. That was a totally stupid response. Maybe you should take some time to read next time. Not everyone keeps fish. Some people do like to catch and release. I know I do.


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## zam

Tracker01 said:


> The first thing I would stop are the gill netters. The second thing I would stop are the guys I see keeping under sized fish. There are bigger problems in the bay that need too be addressed. Maybe they need too have it where it's only legal too catch stripers with a rod and reel. No netting or trout lines. And only legal size fish.


But what about the fact that the vast majority of Stripers are harvested by rod and reel? Only a small percentage are even caught by nets. from a conservational point of view, banning the method that is doing the least harm wouldn't be logical


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## Tracker01

The least harm , hum , really have you ever seen all the fish a gill net catches. And yes if a man catches a legal fish and wants too keep it, that should be ok. Now let me ask you this , why don't they make you buy tags and make Every One buy tags , 6 tags per person and you are done for the year. If you dont use your tags you don't get any for the next year. For what it cost to regestier my boat and tags licenses. I should be able to keep any fish I catch. But again I choose not to keep fish so I would not have to buy tags. Maybe they should allow just 1 tag per person. Maybe we should just drain the bay and count the fish.


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## jlentz

Tracker01 said:


> The least harm , hum , really have you ever seen all the fish a gill net catches. And yes if a man catches a legal fish and wants too keep it, that should be ok. Now let me ask you this , why don't they make you buy tags and make Every One buy tags , 6 tags per person and you are done for the year. If you dont use your tags you don't get any for the next year. For what it cost to regestier my boat and tags licenses. I should be able to keep any fish I catch. But again I choose not to keep fish so I would not have to buy tags. Maybe they should allow just 1 tag per person. Maybe we should just drain the bay and count the fish.


You really believe you should be able to keep as many fish as you want because you pay to register your boat, tags and license? When you complained about poachers keeping fish maybe they spent a lot of money getting their license and gas driving to that location, using your logic they should be entitled to keep what ever fish they keep to compensate for their expenses to go fishing. Also the commercial guys pay a lot more than you for their boats, licenses and equipment so again using your logic they should be able to keep many more fish than you. It is funny in your first line you ask if you have seen all of the gill net catches. Are you basing your position on pictures and not facts? When you read a book do you just look at the pictures? Like Zam said facts are facts and the fact is more fish are killed by rod and reel than by gill net, but than again I guess facts do not have the impact on you as much as pictures do. 

John


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## StriperSlayerG1

http://www.ccamd.org/?p=626 Check out this article yeah its from 2011 but it still happens today. You got all the answers though , you should be in charge of the regulations.


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## jlentz

StriperSlayerG1 said:


> http://www.ccamd.org/?p=626 Check out this article yeah its from 2011 but it still happens today. You got all the answers though , you should be in charge of the regulations.


The word illegal pops up a lot in that article, the title of the article is Illegal Gill Net Contains Hundreds of Dead Stripers. They broke the law and should be punished for it as should any one who breaks the laws. Maybe the netters spent a lot of money on their nets and equipment and felt they were owed those fish LOL. Do you have numbers that tell us the amount of illegal fish taken by rod and reel? You picture is nice and may push your agenda on the uneducated but I prefer facts.
The article is good though, I did not even have to read it, I could tell from the pictures the harm that gill nets do. 

John


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## Tracker01

Ok , your foolishness will save the bay.


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## StriperSlayerG1

jlentz said:


> The word illegal pops up a lot in that article, the title of the article is Illegal Gill Net Contains Hundreds of Dead Stripers. They broke the law and should be punished for it as should any one who breaks the laws. Maybe the netters spent a lot of money on their nets and equipment and felt they were owed those fish LOL. Do you have numbers that tell us the amount of illegal fish taken by rod and reel? You picture is nice and may push your agenda on the uneducated but I prefer facts.
> The article is good though, I did not even have to read it, I could tell from the pictures the harm that gill nets do.
> 
> John


I find it funny the man doesn't even keep fish nor eat fish but yet you still say he does and wants to? You must know him? So do you do your part on releasing fish? The article talks about illegal gill netting but yet you must think that doesn't happen anymore. You must have the info on the numbers taking by rod and reel since you are spouting off about it. Why don't you tell us all and show us? You know right? You must be a gill netter to get so offended. I think its funny you think you know so much but yet you cannot show any " facts" you speak of. You just like to run your mouth and believe what you are saying is true.


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## jlentz

StriperSlayerG1 said:


> I find it funny the man doesn't even keep fish nor eat fish but yet you still say he does and wants to? You must know him? So do you do your part on releasing fish? The article talks about illegal gill netting but yet you must think that doesn't happen anymore. You must have the info on the numbers taking by rod and reel since you are spouting off about it. Why don't you tell us all and show us? You know right? You must be a gill netter to get so offended. I think its funny you think you know so much but yet you cannot show any " facts" you speak of. You just like to run your mouth and believe what you are saying is true.


I will entertain you with my response. After living through the fishing before, during and after the moratorium I have a great respect for the fish. I have never kept a trophy rockfish from the bay nor have I allowed anyone on my boat to. I have not fished the trophy season in probably 7 years mainly because I do not think that season should be open. Since about the year 1997 I have kept only 1 rockfish myself. I have let others on my boat keep a few but no more than a dozen fish in the last 10 years. 

Please show me in my previous posts were I said I think illegal gill netting does not occur anymore. You won't find it because I never said it. Along those lines should I assume you think illegal recreational harvesting does not occur? I hate to disappoint you with facts but I pulled this from the ASMFC, you probably do not know what that is so I will spell it out for you, it is the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commision. Sorry I do not have a picture to show you but hopefully you can understand this.

"As the saltwater recreational fishing sector has grown, so has the popularity of striped bass. The recreational sector now accounts for a larger portion of the total harvest than the commercial sector. Recreational harvest has grown steadily since the reopening of many state fisheries in 1990, with landings of 19 million pounds in 2012."

Any more questions Striperslayer? I will be glad to answer them.

John


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## jlentz

Tracker01 said:


> Ok , your foolishness will save the bay.


Sorry Tracker I am not trying to save just the bay. I am trying to save both the bay and ocean fish. Please read up on the life cycle of the rockfish and you will see that it is not saving one of the other but both that needs to occur.

John


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## jlentz

Here is a quote from NOAA on why the Chesapeake fish are so important to the species

"In general, the Chesapeake Bay spawning areas produce the majority of coastal migratory striped bass (70-90%), with significant contributions from the Delaware River and Hudson River stocks."

I will be happy to give you the links I quoted if you would like to read more on the subject.

John


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## Tracker01

What ever you need to tell yourself.


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## jlentz

Tracker01 said:


> What ever you need to tell yourself.


I am not telling myself anything I and any good fisherman that has been around for a while does not already know. Please post facts disputing what I have posted. Having a debate armed with facts against someone armed with emotion is not very productive. I would love for you to prove me wrong. I would love for the rockfish populations to be thriving but they are not and have been in decline for a while.

John


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## StriperSlayerG1

jlentz said:


> I will entertain you with my response. After living through the fishing before, during and after the moratorium I have a great respect for the fish. I have never kept a trophy rockfish from the bay nor have I allowed anyone on my boat to. I have not fished the trophy season in probably 7 years mainly because I do not think that season should be open. Since about the year 1997 I have kept only 1 rockfish myself. I have let others on my boat keep a few but no more than a dozen fish in the last 10 years.
> 
> Please show me in my previous posts were I said I think illegal gill netting does not occur anymore. You won't find it because I never said it. Along those lines should I assume you think illegal recreational harvesting does not occur? I hate to disappoint you with facts but I pulled this from the ASMFC, you probably do not know what that is so I will spell it out for you, it is the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commision. Sorry I do not have a picture to show you but hopefully you can understand this.
> 
> "As the saltwater recreational fishing sector has grown, so has the popularity of striped bass. The recreational sector now accounts for a larger portion of the total harvest than the commercial sector. Recreational harvest has grown steadily since the reopening of many state fisheries in 1990, with landings of 19 million pounds in 2012."
> 
> Any more questions Striperslayer? I will be glad to answer them.
> 
> John


First of all, in your rant it is where not were. Learn how to spell. Also, I release every fish I catch on my own boat. As a matter of fact I have caught plenty of rock this year and thrown them back. I want to keep our Chesaepeake healthy and strong. I do not keep fish like you believe. I do not need any questions to be answered by you. You may like to tell people what you think but you still did not post an article or proof of what you stated. No link at all. Please show me of all the facts and info you know. You must be the Maryland rockfish regulator. I find it weird you talk so much sh!t but cannot produce facts. I do not have to show you in your previous post where you said illegal gill netting does not occur because your words sound like it does not. I do not need any answers from you as you cannot supply them.


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## jlentz

StriperSlayerG1 said:


> First of all, in your rant it is where not were. Learn how to spell. Also, I release every fish I catch on my own boat. As a matter of fact I have caught plenty of rock this year and thrown them back. I want to keep our Chesaepeake healthy and strong. I do not keep fish like you believe. I do not need any questions to be answered by you. You may like to tell people what you think but you still did not post an article or proof of what you stated. No link at all. Please show me of all the facts and info you know. You must be the Maryland rockfish regulator. I find it weird you talk so much sh!t but cannot produce facts. I do not have to show you in your previous post where you said illegal gill netting does not occur because your words sound like it does not. I do not need any answers from you as you cannot supply them. GFY


The only error you found in my post was a spelling error? I guess since I am the rockfish regulator that would make you the grammar regulator. All I am asking is someone to post facts disputing the facts I posted and apparently you can not do that. I will post you the links tomorrow, but please in the meantime post the facts you have that dispute the quotes I used. When you say you want to keep the bay healthy and strong I highly suggest you research the life cycle of the rockfish. I believe this is the third time I mentioned doing so and I would suggest you read up on the subject. I fish many more locations than the bay and if you could see the bigger picture you would understand the importance of the Chesapeake Bay fish to the entire coastal population. And yes you should show me where I said that the illegal gill netting does not occur if you in fact saying that is what I said. Please make this debate interesting and post some of your facts. I am waiting patiently.

John


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## StriperSlayerG1

Jlentz

You talk so much $%*^ but you do not post any proof. Yeah tomorrow. Do you need time to gather up your bs stories? Cool. You keep telling me to post my facts but yet you have not posted any that you know so much about. You are just another BSer. You have no facts my man. Just stop. You sound stupid. I know about the life cycle of the rockfish. You defended the gill net deal from the beginning. You make this interesting and look foolish. Show me facts. Where are they? I fish many more areas myself as the pax and potomac and the severn and even the rappa and tappahannock so tell me.


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## jlentz

StriperSlayerG1 said:


> Jlentz
> 
> You talk so much $%*^ but you do not post any proof. Yeah tomorrow. Do you need time to gather up your bs stories? Cool. You keep telling me to post my facts but yet you have not posted any that you know so much about. You are just another BSer. You have no facts my man. Just stop. You sound stupid. I know about the life cycle of the rockfish. You defended the gill net deal from the beginning. You make this interesting and look foolish. Show me facts. Where are they? I fish many more areas myself as the pax and potomac and the severn and even the rappa and tappahannock so tell me.


Really, this is all you have to debate me with.


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## StriperSlayerG1

lol dude im done. You act like you have something to show and prove and you haven't. Come on show me. You cannot. You wanna show me tomorrow? Maybe the day after?


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## jlentz

StriperSlayerG1 said:


> Jlentz
> 
> You talk so much $%*^ but you do not post any proof. Yeah tomorrow. Do you need time to gather up your bs stories? Cool. You keep telling me to post my facts but yet you have not posted any that you know so much about. You are just another BSer. You have no facts my man. Just stop. You sound stupid. I know about the life cycle of the rockfish. You defended the gill net deal from the beginning. You make this interesting and look foolish. Show me facts. Where are they? I fish many more areas myself as the pax and potomac and the severn and even the rappa and tappahannock so tell me.


Ok Striperslayer, As you can see I do not need to gather up any BS stories, I posted quotes from these sources earlier. The first link below is where I pulled my first quote in post #46 concerning more fishing being harvested by rod and reel than by gill net.

http://www.asmfc.org/species/atlantic-striped-bass

Opps there goes one of your legs Striperslayer

The second quote I referenced concerning the importance of the the Chesapeake stock on the health of the Atlantic coast population in post #48.

http://chesapeakebay.noaa.gov/fish-facts/striped-bass

Opps Striperslayer there goes the second leg you were standing on.

Since you did not understand the quotes when I first posted them I doubt you will comprehend the complete articles, two pages might be too much for you. Tell me, what kind of visual tools I can use to help you. Maybe for the first source I can see if I can find or put together a pie chart or maybe a bar graph. Which would be easier for you to understand? For the second source I will see if I can find a nice nautical chart/map with brightly colored arrows showing you the seasonal migrations of the fish into and out of the bay. .

Maybe this is more on your level concerning the Chesapeake Bay
http://nctc.fws.gov/resources/knowledge-resources/pubs5/chessie_colbk.pdf

So from your post above you only list waters of the Cheasapeake Bay watershed as areas you fish, not a very vast area. You do realize that the bay has headwaters and also a mouth that opens to the Atlantic Ocean. Crazy as it may sound to you Striperslayer, the bay is not a closed system, fish come and go at different stages of their life.

And enough with the personal insults, they do nothing but make you look foolish and immature. I do not like to debate people with limited cognitive capacity, it is a waste of my time. The one thing I do like about the personal attacks is that it shows that my fact based position stands head and shoulders above your emotional unsubstantiated argument. Sort of a last gasp for air as Striperslayer slips beneath the surface.

I have a little story with a few facts for you about the life cycle of the striper, fish mortality and proof that I release any striper I catch.

Yesterday I thought I would try my luck at a place I visit regularly. I was armed with only two facts but that was all I would need. After I cast my facts out I had a hit almost immediately, it did not give too much of a fight on my ultralight setup so I was unsure of what it was. As it came boat side I realized it was a juvenile Striperslayer, I was excited because I have never caught one before. unfortunately it had no fight in it and made no substantial runs. As I lifted it into the boat it regurgitated emotional arguments and personal attacks making a mess of the deck of my boat. I gave the little bugger a shove and sent him on his way, back to the Chesapeake Bay watershed, the only area this little guy has ever known. I hoped that he would find a nice area of calm water to take a break, regain his composure and let some of the lactic acid dissipate that had built up in his muscles and brain during the weak fight. It seems this species is all bark and no bite, not even a challenge on light tackle. Hopefully he will grow bigger and one day leave the protected waters of the Chesapeake bay and run with the big boys.

John


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## CJS

Jlentz,

You can't win this. 

The spawning runs that occur in the tributaries of Chesapeake Bay are the most important part of the Atlantic Striped Bass population. 
Most would agree that those runs deserve protection, but the spawning stock gets slammed by recreational and charter fisherman every year from December to May up from the mouth of the Bay to the Flats and back down again.

Whenever someone questions charter boats or recreational interests in the Bay, people point at illegal gill nets or poachers and claim to be a C&R fisherman. Then they question the science or get sarcastic to dismiss the discussion. Those are all ways of passing the buck, and those are the same people who will blame someone else when a moratorium or much stricter regulations are put in place.

Anyone interested in learning more, google "selective evolution". By setting minimum size limits vs. slot limits, we are removing the best genes from the gene pool and weakening the population over time. You know who already harvests fish following this model?? Commercial Striped Bass fishermen in Maryland. . .

Pretty cool video, stolen from Rob Choi's page: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u9YOVuEQugE.


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## Talapia

Before posting in any threads like this I always ask myself if I anything I say will change anyone else's mind. I also ask myself if there are trolls in the thread. After that I almost always move on...


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## Tracker01

Talapia said:


> Before posting in any threads like this I always ask myself if I anything I say will change anyone else's mind. I also ask myself if there are trolls in the thread. After that I almost always move on...


Amen too that.


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## zam

Im a recreational fisherman with no ties to commercial fishing and I always think its really hypocritical when a rec says the solutions is to ban coms in some way. We harvest 80% of the Rockfish, that's a fact. for us to ever try to stop them from harvesting just seems pure evil. I will never agree with screwing over others in the hopes that I can benefit in some way. that's just wrong in so many ways. besides, banning nets wouldn't amount to anything, gill nets only harvest a tiny percentage. gill nets are also one of the best ways to harvest fish without having a large bycatch, rod and reel is the worse way possible when it comes to dead discards after releasing the fish, no other method even comes close


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## Tracker01

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...VtC9JCgmtUoDXpqTg&sig2=zSnDxMroD9CDUtip2u20kw


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## zam

But doesn't this prove that gil net poaching is not that big of a problem? you are googling and trying to find anything against them because they are your competition for the same fish you want to catch, and all you can find is the exact poaching incident that was posted earlier on this thread, from a single incident that happened 4 years ago. there has never been an incident since after all these years. I know youll say it still happens and we should take your word for it, but it hasn't. they actually use sophisticated equipment now a days to catch any commercial poaching, so the odds of that ever happening again is low, the biggest poaching threat today is by us recs, recs have always poached more actually, I know from the uneducated it may look like more when you look at a picture of a net, but recs poach way more


Tracker01 said:


> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...VtC9JCgmtUoDXpqTg&sig2=zSnDxMroD9CDUtip2u20kw


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## Tracker01

No you should not take my word for anything. As for this I am done. I don't keep fish so it does not apply.


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## Tracker01

By the way just type poaching on the Chesapeake bay. I don't have time too copy all the links .


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## jlentz

Tracker01 said:


> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...VtC9JCgmtUoDXpqTg&sig2=zSnDxMroD9CDUtip2u20kw


It was an illegal act and I do not think anyone here condones that. Why do you need to pull up articles that were already referenced in this thread and that occurred three years ago? The rod and reel harvest has overtaken the gill net, that is a fact please see the link I posted earlier. Using three year old reports is a sad attempt at trying to bolster your position. In this thread I was assigned positions I never had. It was said that I supported gill nets and when asked to show where I said I supported gill nets it was never shown because I never said I was for or against gill nets. It was also stated that I believed that the gill net poaching does not occur, again a statement I never made and you will not find. Trying to attack me for positions I never held is a feeble attempt to distract the other readers from the actual argument at hand. I never said I thought illegal gill net activity had stopped just as nobody here said illegal rod and reel poaching has stopped. Actual here is one from earlier this year, a little more current than the article you linked to 

http://news.maryland.gov/dnr/2014/0...ilty-of-poaching-228-undersized-striped-bass/

I do not want to assign position to you as was done to me incorrectly so I will ask, Do you have more of a problem with gill net poachers than recreational rod and reel poachers? You statements seem to bear this out but I would like you to clarify.

A funny thing I noticed in this discussion is the amount of times the ones arguing against the facts have gone back and edited their responses. Please do not tell me it was to correct spelling errors, I have read the many responses and when I refreshed the pages they were changed. That is one of the reasons I quoted striperslayer the night before I responded. I wanted to be able to show the personal attacks against me. I believe the reason is that emotion non correct arguments can be edited but facts can not.

John


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## Tracker01

Again my rod and reel harvest no fish. None, Nada , nothing, not a single fish. I take a picture and release the fish. Again I take a picture and release the fish. But there are people good people that make a living on these waters. And I don't want them hurt by simple minded a holes like you.


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## jlentz

Tracker01 said:


> Again my rod and reel harvest no fish. None, Nada , nothing, not a single fish. I take a picture and release the fish. Again I take a picture and release the fish. But there are people good people that make a living on these waters. And I don't want them hurt by simple minded a holes like you.


Nice personal attack there slacker01, please bring your A game to this discussion or are you not big enough to sit at the adult table. Every argument you have made has been disputed by facts. Please show me anything incorrect that I posted so we can get this discussion back on track.

John


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## jlentz

Tracker01 you say you want to protect the good people that make a living on these waters but how is not saving the fish going to do that? How about the good commercial fisherman do you want to save them also? The way we are headed we are going to see another moratorium and I have heard estimates of as soon as three years. How will these good people make a living when they can not fish for rockfish at all? You call me simple minded but apparently you do not see the consequences of doing too little too late. What do you think it was like for the people I knew who made a living on these same waters during the moratorium? We need to cut back on harvests both on both the rec and comm side.

John


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## kurazy kracka

jlentz said:


> Here is a quote from NOAA on why the Chesapeake fish are so important to the species
> 
> "In general, the Chesapeake Bay spawning areas produce the majority of coastal migratory striped bass (70-90%), with significant contributions from the Delaware River and Hudson River stocks."
> 
> I will be happy to give you the links I quoted if you would like to read more on the subject.
> 
> John


but 90% of this board always has the argument that trophy season does not hurt the spawning and breeding of them and has little effect on the overall population. I've read it numerous times when I voiced my opinion about trophy season.(close the **** all together)


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## zam

Nothing wrong with being against poaching, what I don't agree with is trying to get people against an entire group of people because of the action of just a couple. it amazing me that at this day and age people still do that, blame the individual


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## surfnsam

This is PIER AND SURF right? So what about the fisherman that's shore bound and can't move around and look for fis but must take his chance where he is. Getting bait and fuel and tolls and passes just to fish for hours with no bites? We are the ones getting screwed by all this! We are the ones with a 2 fish per day limit! Commercial and charter boats get the lions share of fish no doubt. Charter guys take parties out if they can twice a day and say there are 8 in a party that's 16 rock per boat per day plus most have a common licence so they can catch a ton more the same day. How many rock at 5# to make a ton? Cry all you want the only ones getting screwed here is the pier and surf fisherman


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## catman

Sam you made a very good point when you said *"This is PIER AND SURF right? So what about the fisherman that's shore bound and can't move around and look for fish but must take his chance where he is"* That's the real problem, not the lack of fish. Maybe I can help out here. I have a pretty nice fishing boat - a 25' Pro Line Walkaround powered by a 250 hp Evinrude E-TEC with full electronics that can easily fish 4 people plus me. Any P&S fishermen that are willing to chip in for gas and wash the boat down at the end of the day is welcome. The catch is that I only fish week days - the weekends are for family. I own a slip at Bowley's Marina which is at the mouth of Middle River. So I'd be happy to have some of you guys fish with me in the upper bay. I haven't been skunked in 5 yrs.:fishing: No brag just fact.


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## surfnsam

Thanks Catman. With project boat coming along out to get my 1 fish this spring. Also setting up for trot line for crabbing.


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## Tracker01

Surfsam, I agree with you about the being screwed part. That the two fish limit is ,well for the lack of a better term just crazy. But we also choose to chase these fish and there limits. That's one reason I went elsewhere last year and fished for different species. But shore bound fishermen do have a great disadvantage and maybe should have different limit's. Catman is right a boater has the means of finding fish. Where the shore bound fishermen hopes that a fish swims by. I wish you luck on your project, and for future fishing.


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## zam

I don't think a shore bound fisherman necessarily has a less chance of catching them. In past years when I was boatless I did almost as well from shore. you pick the right spot and right time you can get a limit within minutes. I think with charters and coms you have to keep in mind that they are just doing a service to citizens that choose to get their fish in a different way then us. they aren't harvesting them for their self. I bet if you added in all the Rockfish harvested from shore throughout their entire migratory route from Nova scotia to North Carolina and even beyond, every creek, river, bay, ocean, ect.. shore fishermen harvest far more then any other group. But I think its silly to even have any restrictions, I think they are plentiful, its those activist groups like the CCA that have pushed for this for years that are to blame


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## gpwf20c

surfnsam said:


> this is pier and surf right? So what about the fisherman that's shore bound and can't move around and look for fis but must take his chance where he is. Getting bait and fuel and tolls and passes just to fish for hours with no bites? We are the ones getting screwed by all this! We are the ones with a 2 fish per day limit! Commercial and charter boats get the lions share of fish no doubt. Charter guys take parties out if they can twice a day and say there are 8 in a party that's 16 rock per boat per day plus most have a common licence so they can catch a ton more the same day. How many rock at 5# to make a ton? Cry all you want the only ones getting screwed here is the pier and surf fisherman



Amen!!!!


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## catman

Zam posted *" I bet if you added in all the Rockfish harvested from shore throughout their entire migratory route from Nova scotia to North Carolina and even beyond, every creek, river, bay, ocean, ect.. shore fishermen harvest far more then any other group"* A little bird tells me that you'd loose that bet. 
i'll do some research on it and post my findings later. Should be very interesting.


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## zam

Its hard to know for sure since we don't report our catches but just the shear numbers would make me think that, there has to be millions of people fishing from shore throut the entire eastcoast


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## catman

zam said:


> Its hard to know for sure since we don't report our catches but just the shear numbers would make me think that, there has to be millions of people fishing from shore throut the entire eastcoast


No doubt. Any figures given for rec catches are only estimates to be interpreted in favor of various agencies.


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## surfnsam

That's a load. Go to the surf this Saturday from Del. to Va. and try to catch a striper from the surf. I'll bet you money you dont get a keeper from the surf and they are moving south right now. The chances of hooking up a keeper are the same as playing the lottery.


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## zam

surfnsam said:


> That's a load. Go to the surf this Saturday from Del. to Va. and try to catch a striper from the surf. I'll bet you money you dont get a keeper from the surf and they are moving south right now. The chances of hooking up a keeper are the same as playing the lottery.


But see that's what I mean when I mentioned going to the right place at the right time, of coarse there won't be a ton of fish caught off the surf now (eventhough there are a lot of people catching them off the surf), its winter, the fish will almost certainly not be in the surf in any numbers, but go to Montauk in October or thousands of other spots throughout when the fish are close enough to catch from shore. I know in the upperbay there are a few spots I know I can easily catch a limit if I hit it at a certain time, I've done it hundreds of times. there are a lot of people that have trouble catching from shore, but when you consider that there are millions doing it , it adds up


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## gpwf20c

zam said:


> But see that's what I mean when I mentioned going to the right place at the right time, of coarse there won't be a ton of fish caught off the surf now (eventhough there are a lot of people catching them off the surf), its winter, the fish will almost certainly not be in the surf in any numbers, but go to Montauk in October or thousands of other spots throughout when the fish are close enough to catch from shore. I know in the upperbay there are a few spots I know I can easily catch a limit if I hit it at a certain time, I've done it hundreds of times. there are a lot of people that have trouble catching from shore, but when you consider that there are millions doing it , it adds up



So youre saying you can catch the same amount of fish/size from pier and surf vs fishing from a boat?


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## zam

gpwf20c said:


> So youre saying you can catch the same amount of fish/size from pier and surf vs fishing from a boat?


No I usually catch more by boat, but there are a lot more people fishing from shore then from boat


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## catman

*


zam said:



.............. I know in the upperbay there are a few spots I know I can easily catch a limit if I hit it at a certain time, I've done it hundreds of times.....................

Click to expand...

*Zam I agree. There's plenty of 25"-30" class rock up here year round but there's no way to fish them from shore. Even in my boat I still have to rely on my GPS and FF to locate the lumps and drop-offs. It's a real shame that the shore guys have such limited public access in the bay.


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## zam

Its been a few years since I fished for Rock from shore in the upperbay but there were a few spots I liked to fish (depending on the time of year) you could catch keepers right at dusk almost everytime, there would be a lot of people fishing during the daytime and very few would be catching keepers, then right before sunset almost everyone leaves without realizing they are leaving when the fishing is going to get good


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## surfnsam

Right place right time? The right time is when I can. I'm said today from cape henlopen de to va beach in the surf not the bay. Even in the bay from beach or shore lottery tickets are a better chance than getting a keeper not any fish but a 18--28" striper. Sure I know where to get a keeper from boat or kayak but I'm talking PIER&SURF


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## zam

surfnsam said:


> Right place right time? The right time is when I can. I'm said today from cape henlopen de to va beach in the surf not the bay. Even in the bay from beach or shore lottery tickets are a better chance than getting a keeper not any fish but a 18--28" striper. Sure I know where to get a keeper from boat or kayak but I'm talking PIER&SURF


With all respect, I think the reason you believe you have a better chance at hitting the lottery then catching a Rock from shore has a lot to do with you going when you can and not when the right time is, even by boat you have to be strategic and go during the right time. that's one huge advantage we recs have over Charters, we can go at the last second when the conditions look right. when I was younger me and my late buddy Doug (he was never late to go fishing, he's dead) We would fish all day or night long. we usually caught fish but most of the time we didn't, now I pick the right times to go, I rarely ever fish for more then three hours and rarely ever have a problem catching. Tides, weather conditions, moon, water conditions, even gut instincts. it all means a lot.


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## catman

zam said:


> With all respect, I think the reason you believe you have a better chance at hitting the lottery then catching a Rock from shore has a lot to do with you going when you can and not when the right time is, even by boat you have to be strategic and go during the right time. that's one huge advantage we recs have over Charters, we can go at the last second when the conditions look right. when I was younger me and my late buddy Doug (he was never late to go fishing, he's dead) We would fish all day or night long. we usually caught fish but most of the time we didn't, now I pick the right times to go, I rarely ever fish for more then three hours and rarely ever have a problem catching. Tides, weather conditions, moon, water conditions, even gut instincts. it all means a lot.


And this my friends is the one of the main differences between a fisherman and an angler. The angler doesn't fish by chance while the fisherman does the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. It took me a long time fishing with those much better than me to learn the difference and I'm still learning.


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## surfnsam

I'm not going by some false qusi science from NOAA I'm talking about real fisherman that go when they can and try to hit the area that historicly hold fish. 90% of fisherman go when they can get away not always at the optimum time.


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## catman

surfnsam said:


> I'm not going by some false qusi science from NOAA I'm talking about real fisherman that go when they can and try to hit the area that historicly hold fish. 90% of fisherman go when they can get away not always at the optimum time.


Sam I always enjoy reading your posts because they aren't off the cuff. You're absolutely right when you say *"90% of fisherman go when they can get away not always at the optimum time".* That was most definitely me before I retired. Back then my *GO TO SPOT* was Conowingo Dam where I could always catch a bucket of catfish. The only thing you had to know was the power generation schedule. My other *GO TO SPOT* was The Tank- same there - always fish. I'm just glad I'm retired and can fish at optimum times during the week and don't have to worry about the weekend crowds..


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## surfnsam

I know Catman!! I'm working on that but they keep raising the age and 72 is a long way off. So I'm not super angler who get a keeper every time just a pier and surf fisherman looking for a fish;-)


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## Penn626

*The biggest reason why.......*

http://www.wboc.com/story/27654367/tilghman-island-man-sentenced-in-fish-poaching-case


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## catman

I'm not sure if poaching is "*The biggest reason why....... *" but it sure is a significant problem.


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## zam

Penn626 said:


> http://www.wboc.com/story/27654367/tilghman-island-man-sentenced-in-fish-poaching-case


Once again its the exact same incident that was posted over again on this thread, Im starting to wonder if some of you even realize that since your reposting the same incident as if its another example. LOL. If it was really as big of a problem that some of you want people to believe, wouldn't they have been caught more poachers then that one incident? I think most commercial waterman would never even think about poaching because they know they are being watch closely by DNR


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## zam

see recs do it to, and theres a thousand times more of us 
http://www.dnr.state.md.us/fisherie...itle=NRP-Seizes-More-Than-200-Undersized-Bass


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## transamsam98

Zam theres always got to be someone to blame and given the volume of fish charters and comm guys deal with even when legal it's easy to point the finger at us


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## transamsam98

Maybe Rec guys do it more often cause they have less to lose ? Maybe com guys do it cause they have a market ? Maybe charter guys do it to try and get you to book more ? End result is greedy selfish people ultimately do it cause they are their fish not yours


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