# Seagull Pier Report 11.07.04 ... Sometimes I Wonder ...



## Jake Ace (May 4, 2000)

Sorry, late on this report. Fished Sunday from 11a - 3:30p on the Seagull Pier. 1st time this year, not too crowded, but crowded enough.

The front flyover area had about 3 fisherman and 30 to 40 rods over the side for tautog. I saw a couple smallish ones pulled in. 

Out on the end, a 4-some was just clobbering the whiting (and other things, read on). Every cast. Now there were some smaller ones in there, but many were legitimate 1lbers.

I think there were northern and southern because some were virtually free of striping, while others had tiger striping and were nearly black over their body.

I tagged & released 16 small flounder for the day. Saw many others caught.

But, sometimes I wonder if it's worth it because, I'll tell you I watched the mechanic of the end 4-some catch as many flounder as I did on his bottom rig and proceed to smack them on the head on the side of the pier ... presumably to kill them ... and they'd go back into the water floating, dead.

Why ... I can only surmise, that he didn't want them eating his $2.99 / lb shrimp that he was using for bait for $1.99 / lb whiting.

This was no novice. This was not someone who was doing this by mistake. This was someone who was doing it wantonly.

This same group also scoffed at the fisherman nearby who were releasing their whiting ... and even asked them for them after their own coolers were filled.

Let's just say that despite all this, it was a situation that I did not feel confrontational in being outnumbered and outsized, but probably not outwitted.

So the final score on the day was 16 tagged / released baby flounders, 20+ killed for no reason / released flounders.

They beat me.

THROW THE BIG ONES BACK, OH, AND THROW THE LITTLE ONE BACK TOO

Jake Ace


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

call the fish cops(but they probably won't show up)...i don't know if the bridge cops can do anything about it, but someone should ask...people like that really tick me off, but i'm not looking to get shot over it...i think i would have said something...100 people trying to help the bay can not replace the damage done by one person like that...sad


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## Capt. Kim CG Ret (Sep 27, 2004)

*i don't know if the bridge cops can do anything*

Those "bridge cops" have a tremendous amount of authority; probably moreso than many city cops. I have seen them on the pier once, but it was to arrest a guy who was being ignorant as well as drunk. Call them. They can enforce any laws of the state.


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## Green Cart (May 14, 2002)

Virginia should have a rod limit. Maryland has a limit of 3 rods for saltwater fishing. Maybe the police can give a ticket for too many rods.

But the "kill small flounder" altitude bothers me a lot. I have seen that quite often pertaining to other helpless fish. It probably won't do any good talking to these ignorant fishermen as (1) it is too late to "improve" their minds, and (2) You can get hurt.


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## Jake Ace (May 4, 2000)

There were three bridge police out there at one point during the day as well.

One of the 4-some I was watching I guess threw lead that was either too close, or hit a boat, that came close to the pier, and the boat radioed in, so the police came out.

They talked it over with the end-folks and left, but they were out there for a bit. Of course, none of the offending behavior occurred at that time.

THROW THE BIG ONES BACK

Jake Ace


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

Killing the fish before returning them to the water is bad form, but I don't think that it is against the law, at least not one that I am aware of. Using them for bait is another matter.

Tom


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## Green Cart (May 14, 2002)

But what about these 30-40 rods?   

Surely, the police can address that issue???


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## johnnyleo11 (Dec 17, 2003)

Isn't there a sign at Seagull Pier that says, "2 Rods/Person?"


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## Jake Ace (May 4, 2000)

Yeh, I didn't think it was against the law to kill those little flounder like that, banging them against the side of the pier ... it just looked really, really bad.

I saw folks doing that to small blacktip sharks on a pier in Myrtle Beach a few years back and wondered why ... and the only answer I could come up with was that they were eating the $2.99 / lb bait that was reserved for spot & croaker.

Yes, there is a sign at the entrance to the pier and it says 2 rods per person. I don't who, if anyone could / would ever enforce that one.

THROW THE BIG ONES BACK ALIVE

Jake Ace


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## johnnyleo11 (Dec 17, 2003)

Hmm, I know a fellow that went to jail for killing his subsequent exwife's cat. Why doesn't killing fish in a cruel and unusual manner deem enough response as that? If you were to kick a stray dog in the head or deal it a blow to the head to kill and throw it in a city park, you'd get jail time for that.

Ethics or morality debate anyone?


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

I've been on th pier when they(police) made us take any rods over 2 to the truck. But that was one time and the funny thing is I was fishing two heavers on the T and had a bait rod in the pier cart. Walking off there were people with 5-6 wally world rods fishing and they didn't say a word to them. But again this was only once.


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## ccc6588 (Jun 20, 2003)

Cdog said:


> I've been on th pier when they(police) made us take any rods over 2 to the truck. But that was one time and the funny thing is I was fishing two heavers on the T and had a bait rod in the pier cart. Walking off there were people with 5-6 wally world rods fishing and they didn't say a word to them. But again this was only once.


Yes, the sign there at Seagull for 2 rods per person is totally meaningless. With the pier being so crowded, I really believe that someone needs to start enforcing. 

Another idea is to build another pier there for paid fishermen only. Hell, I pay another extra 5 bucks to avoid the tourists. Hate the tourists asking stupid questions.

I often thought that the bridge people could get creative and make small parcels of fishing spots for lease. Hell, they could make money. I'll pay a heft sum of money for a spot by the rocks all by myself.


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

ever had a tourist pick your rod up and pose with it for a picture....happened to me 3 times this year...last time i told the woman(not sure she spoke english) that my rod was $500.00 and is she dropped she owed me...ignored me and smiled...oh well


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## ccc6588 (Jun 20, 2003)

I've let tourists reel in a fish. Especially the kids. I never fish there daytime during the summer. I go to the Eastern Shore a lot because there are less people. I now have a kayak and will use that to be alone. I haven't fully explored my kayak yet.


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## Jake Ace (May 4, 2000)

I've noticed the few times that I've fished there this year, that apparently a lot of people have never seen a real fish outside of a Gorton's Frozen Fish-Stix box. 

So there is constant wonder, amazement and awe from touristas at the variety of fish that are pulled in.

I too have exhibited constant wonder, amazement and occasionally awe at the variety of touristas that walk on the pier.

THROW THE BIG ONES BACK

Jake Ace


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

i don't mind questions...i just don't like people that don't respect my property...i don't go taking pics with there cameras...


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## blue bird (Apr 25, 2003)

I'm sure that had to be discouraging to see that. It's tough to see something you value so flagrantly disrepected. I have a saying, "Every flood begins with the first drop of rain." Someday your efforts will be of great benefit for all of us.

Maybe this was this guy's way of protesting the idea someone can "legislate morality". Since he can't legally keep every fish he catches he's going to "show em" by doing something he can't be fined for but that most people would consider morally wrong. That kind of mindset seems to be taking root these days. It seems a contradiction of reason to me since every law is moral, even speed limits.


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## HighCap56 (Oct 21, 2003)

Morons should not be allowed to fish.

That guy needs the same soap in a sock treatment they gave the fat guy in Full Metal Jacket.

Likely, I would have started a war that day. That absolutely just makes my skin crawl to think about the stupidity of someone who opts to destroy what he cannot possess.


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

Bob has an idea here...IQ test to fish...sure would cut down the crowds.


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## WALT D. (Dec 18, 2003)

Morals, ethics, and a respect for all of God's creatures great and small is obviously what is missing from any person that would willingly kill any fish that he did not intent to eat or use as bait. These are the same people that would not help a neighbor in need, use profanity in front of you wife and children, take something that did not belong to them, etc. That fact this this type of thing offends most of us shows that most fishermen and hunters take their sport and the conservation of their prey seriously.

Jake Ace, you did the right thing by not encountering these guys. Some of these guys may have the same respect for you that they did for those fish they were needlessly killing.

In some cases the best you can do is to be a silent example of doing the right thing, and by all means teach the next generation of sportsmen the values that the majority of us posess. 

Walt D


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## HighCap56 (Oct 21, 2003)

Hello Walt! - Welcome to PierandSurf!

Glad you stopped by.


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## fishwagon (Sep 25, 2002)

Call The pier cops whenever you see something.

They have a LOT of time (and extra tax money) on their hands.

They are responsible for the pier-although I get the impression they could care less.

The pier is infamous for stuff like that. The fish and game guys will never even show up if called.

This stuff happens within 100 yards of a bunch of federal agents in the building with a LOT of time, who could care less,who are responsible, who have more authority than any state cop,warden,or whatever.

It is illegal to poach or kill regulated wildlife-even if you don't keep it. I cant go shoot deer out of season and expect not to be prosecuted because I didn't keep it. I can't kill a sturgeon because it 'gets tangled up in my net', and not break the law because I didn't keep it.

The number to the office should be posted at the entrance to the pier.


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## FishRung (Nov 26, 2002)

I want to stand up for the fish police here. I've seen them many times on the Jolly Roger at TopSail and been impressed by their thoroughness, willingness to answer questions and the way they approach breaches of not only law but ethics as well. I was returning a Thornback Ray to the deep blue and had a pair of pliers in my hand - the policeman advised me that I should not consider cutting the tail off. I had no intention of harming the fish, but I felt good about being spoken to.


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## Jake Ace (May 4, 2000)

The interaction of the police patrol with the folks committing the flounder killing was amenable. 

The police didn't know they were smashing flounder on the pier railing before releasing them and frankly I didn't pay attention to the fact they were doing that either until the rangers left.

The police asked a few questions about the "lead-slinging at the boat" incident. Then they made a few comments and moved on and the whole while the police were on the pier there were no heinous actions committed.

Those 4-slugs knew when to stop behaving like idiots and put on the face of the downtrodden when the police asked them about throwing weights at that boat.

All my interactions with the law, on pier or surf, have been good ... and usually I can point out someone "not playin' by the rules" to make the conversation worthwhile for both of us.

THROW THE BIG ONES BACK

Jake Ace


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## jay (Feb 19, 2004)

*!!!!!!!*

Well my opinon is it the same if they catch and keep the under size flounder, if thier killing them on purpose, so If thier was a po-po guy out thier I would of told him that. Every body catches a undersize flounder that sollows the hook, and when you relase it, it dosn't excatlly swim, it kills me to have that happens, but when someone kills them just for the heck of it ... I'm shure they Had thier "b.s" reason for doing it but DARN, COME'ON!!! 

Yeah and about them tourist...I have no problem showing and teaching, I did a "class" type deal down a GV pier for kids and had no prob. showing the dads that "were out of water" that were out of state trying to take thier fam. fishing, I would help them out, show them how to cut up thier bait, take the fish off and so on. But when you get those jerks that aren't "regulars" and it's the first time you've seen them thier, and they big dog,(ya'll know what I mean we've all dealt with them) yeah that really gets on my nerves. 

____rattler___ I'm sorry you have a whole lot more forgiving than I would be... They touch My pole...OOOOOOOO BUDY I'm gonna filp on them. I don't care if thier the president of frace, Queen of england, They gonna come here they besta' learn r-e-s-p-e-c-t, listen to da song!!!


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