# Spinning Rods and Braid Line



## nomadfl (Jan 7, 2007)

"Spinning Rods and Braid Line"


Here is an article by the late Gowge +George Pope" regarding using braid on spinning rods...How many are using braid and have not converted their rods to the use of braid .....Richard

"Post From Gowge ...... approx. 1999"


I was going through some old files and I found this and it still applies ......enjoy

, Thoughts On BRAID and Fuji LOW RIDER Rings

Posted by Gowge, 

A few years back, one of our friends on this forum named "Dorge" who is still a long time spin fan and tackle historian of some note started a thread about his dream surf spinning outfit, and it included a set of Fuji's Gold Frame "RUBY" Low Riders and a Ryobi Boron rod blank more expensive than any I had heard of before or to date. I had never heard of Low Riders or a Ryobi Boron Proskyer before, so there was a long thread on the board discussing the virtues of Low Rider guides, micro-thin braid line, and the evolution of Fuji Guides after both Shimano and Daiwa had released some very expensive high performance "Interline Rods" with only a butt guide (entry guide) and tip guide. 

With NO guides on a fishing rod, the introduction of Interline Rods was a direct threat to Fuji Tackle, 'cos their whole business model is built around fishing rod guides. 

I should point out here, that both Shimano and Daiwa offered new models of reels designed to perform with braid line, specifically for use on their new Interline Rods, as well. 

These reels looked very similar to previous models, but it was not readily apparent that the angle of the reel stand to spool had been changed slightly. Older style reels made for mono placed the spool more parallel to the rod blank, but the new models turned the spool upwards so the spool angle intersected the rod blank near the Entry Guide of their Interline Rods. This helped braid line flow smoothly to the only ring on the rod - and it was an amazingly SMALL guide for the time at that, around 20mm. The line disappeared inside the rod blank and emerged out the top of the blank, running through a special ceramic tip built into the blank.

You can be sure, this didn't sit well with the engineers and sales staff at Fuji Tackle. 

Fuji Tackle invested a lot of R&D into designing a guide-set for standard type rods that would match the performance of the Interline Rods coming to market at the time. During this reasearch, Fuji discovered why Shimano & Daiwa went to the Interline Rods for using braid line in the first place...

If we simply switch line on our spin reels from monofilament to super-thin braid line, with NO other accomodations for the new line, troubles arise due to the nature of braid line vs nylon monofilament. 

Monofilament line has 'body' or a certain degree of stiffness that on the one hand, reduces performance potential, but at the same time, contributes to "Control" when we cast a high performance surf rod. It's not that difficult to make mono behave well enough for surfcasting in all but the most severe conditions. 
Let's be clear - there are very different dynamics involved with casting vs fishing. In some cases, like when we're casting a lead & bait rig, casting performance can be everything - your success or failure might depend on whether you can reach an area off the beach or shoreline where that bait will drop among hungry fish. If you can reach the fish, you'll get bit - if your rig falls short, it might as well be in a desert. I've seen a lotta' days when I caught NO FISH or FEW fish, while anglers in boats beyond my casting range were loading up their boats with fish. Simply switching tackle and gaining 25% or 50% more distance is a significant incentive for most guys I know... 

Anyhow, for a generation of surf fishers, the formula for performance with monofilament line was to ring a rod with a few huge rings that would not slow the flow of nylong mono to the tip of the rod. The large coils of thick monofilament line were easily seen as line flowed off the spool during a cast. Sometimes, you could hear the coils of line hitting the rod blank or even the rings, they were so big... 

When we switched to thin braid line, we found a whole different paradigm in play. The new line was a fraction of the diameter and thus the weight of nylon monofilament, and it flowed off the reel spools more easily. Braid line is also very limp compaired to monofilament line of the same breaking strain. What was discovered, was WIND like we typically see on an open beach could easily blow this whispy thread of line off to one side or the other, so it didn't flow smoothly through the center of the large diameter rings. The old style large diameter rings simply could not control the flow of the braid line when there was a crosswind capable of moving the flow of line to one side as it came off the spool. With only a few rings on our old style rods, the spaces between rings allowed the line to be moved between them as well. 

High speed cameras allowed the engineers at Fuji Tackle to learn what happened next... When the line was prevented by wind or other factors from flowing perfectly through the large diameter rings, it could by inertia, flow around or past those rings until the lead or lure eventually picked up the slack line by pulling those loops tight once again. Occasionally, when this happened, a loop of line dropped over one of those large diameter guides and was pulled tight by the flight of the lead. Thus the name "Wind Knot" or "Wind LOOP"... The wind disrupted the perfect flow of line from reel spool through the rings and caused the lightweight braid line to drop loops of line over the rings... Damage to the rings or crack-offs resulted when this happened. Both Shimano & Daiwa totally eliminated this problem with braid line behavior when they went to rods that funnelled the line down into the interior of their rods. The rod itself prevented any interference from wind or other conditions and maintained total control of the line flow during the cast. 

Fuji had to design a set of rings that duplicated the control offered by Interline Rods, or face a huge cut in sales, when Interline Rods eventually became more affordable. With a lock on proprietary technology, both Daiwa and Shimano were set to put Fuji Tackle out of business in the evolving market of high performance surf tackle for braid line. 
Fuji apparently tried all manner of combintations of their traditional rings to match the Interline Rods' performance to no avail. Fuji eventually came up with a tangle-proof design they called "LOW RIDERS". These rings resisted the tendency to wrap braid line over the rings, since the long frames in front of the rings shed the loops of line that dropped over them. The small diameter of the butt-rings (20mm) choked the line down as it came off the spool and kept the line taught between the butt ring and the top ring with very slight tension. This allowed Fuji to use much smaller rings above the butt ring, since the line was no longer flowing in big coils. You can see Fuji's still photo from their high speed camera research on the link below - about halfway down the page... 

http://www.fujitackle.com/c_ngc/ngc06-3.html

You can see the wavy coils of braid coming off the spool on the left, and once they enter the first ring, they're choked down to a more linear line flow through the rest of the rings and out the specially designed MN style top. The top is as critical to performance as the rest of the rings, since it is also designed to shed tip wraps which have been the cause of rod tip damage over the years. 

Go to Part 2


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## nomadfl (Jan 7, 2007)

*Spinning Rods and Braid Line Part 2*

Our friend Sergio in Mazatlan became involved in this discussion as well, since he had been using spin gear for a long time, chasing monster fish along the Pacific Beaches of Mexico. Sergio was plagued by line twist from his Penn SS reels while using mono and desperately wanted a rod & reel that offered better performance and control. 
We were all intrugued with the prospect and potential offered by braid line on surf spin gear. The guys at Conoflex were willing to build a special rod for Sergio, rung with LOW RIDER CLCSG (SiC) ringset. There are six rings in the set and an MN top. Sergio packed up a new Daiwa Emblem Reel with braid line and sent it to Conoflex for testing the new rod and rings. Conoflex followed Fuji's ring spacing chart exactly for the 12' rod and went out to the field and tested. With a 4oz lead, and simple off the ground cast, they were amazed at how far the lead flew on the first full power cast. From the beginning of the cast to mid-flight, there was an audible feedback as the line was choked down at the butt ring and flew at high speed through the other rings. They also could have used a LONGER FIELD! 

NO changes were required for ring spacing or sizes, since the combination of Daiwa reel and braid line worked so well. The rod and reel were shipped to Sergio and he put them to work right away, catching some huge Roosterfish on his home beaches. 

Sergio posted glowing reports of the distances he could get with the new rod, using various lures. Most impressive, was his 180 yard distance with a 3.5oz (4oz label) Roberts Ranger lure. The Ranger is a relatively large plug with a single hook - streamlined for good distance, but far from the density of some weighted lures. It's more or less solid plastic in a teardrop shape. 
See: http://www.robertslures.com
A lot of guys have used the Rangers for a long time for bluefish and it's a known performer, but Sergio's combination of rod, line, reel and casting skills could outperform anything else available at the time. 

As a group, we have learned a lot about using braid line with spin gear, and the tackle manufacturers have as well. The only issue I have with the manufacturers, is they still don't tell us which of their reels will work best with braid line and which models to use with only monofilament. 
They know, but just won't say...

It's very disappointing, 'cos so many guys wind up buying reels totally unsuited for use with braid line simply because the mfrs are silent on the issue. What's more, you see only a few rods offered with Low Rider rings in our U.S. Market, and for the most part, they're special order or custom rods for anglers who already understand the potential of using these rods with braid line. 

Just my opinion, but if you want top peformance and optimum control of braid line with spin gear on the beach, you can do yourself a big favor and ring your rod with Low Rider Rings. For rods of 3.5m or about 11' and UP, the standard Low Rider Rings work great. They're even available with lightweight, corrosion proof Titanium Frames now if you're willing to pay the price. As Frosty suggested in a previous thread, the Alconite Low Rider Rings offer a splendid alternative to the expensive SiC Low Riders. 

I hope this helps anyone who wants to improve the performance of their surf spin gear by switching to braid line. Be very careful when using braid line 'cos it can cut flesh to the bone. Make sure your rod is built with an uplocking reelseat so you can employ a Breakaway Cannon or similar line release. If the threads of the reelseat are below the reel, then that's the correct style for surf spin & B'way Cannon Installations. If the threads are above the reelseat, you should either replace the reelseat or use a different style rod... 

MY THANKS TO DORGE AND SERGIO for all their efforts to educate the rest of us on high performance surf spin gear. Many others have tested production rods re-wrapped with these rings for use with braid line and proved their worth under actual fishing conditions on the beaches. This team approach of testing and reporting is one of the reasons a discussion forum like Florida Surf Fishing is such a valuable resource. We can learn a lot from each other. 

GOOD LUCK! 



SEE: http://shop.mudhole.com/s.nl?sc=20&search=BLCAG

AND: http://shop.mudhole.com/s.nl/sc.20/category.173/it.A/id.11735/.f
http://shop.mudhole.com/core/media/media.nl?id=1755&c=210436&h=a504d657b060db083423


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

very interesting read.
look at how many factory rods are now being rung with low riders.
they have far surpassed interlines.


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