# My drum rig after feedback



## squalus (Sep 26, 2007)

By George - I think I got it!! 










8/0 Gamakatsu Octopus Circle (inline)
#3 (100LB) Crane Swivel
80LB test leader

Couple of changes for future rigs...

1) will use clear leader
2) will switch to 2/0 Crane Swivels for added strength

Thank you to all you guys who gave me feedback and suggestions on my "first attempt" thread.

Now to just get near some "drummie" water - oh yeah, got to wait until April for the trip to Hatteras!!


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

You got it. Just remember, experiment. Try different things because thats half the fun. Alot of times I will snell up a bunch and let conditions dictate which size to use.


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## squalus (Sep 26, 2007)

AirDown said:


> Alot of times I will snell up a bunch and let conditions dictate which size to use.


Good tip! Thanks for your response.


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

Looks good!


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## squalus (Sep 26, 2007)

Now to get 'em in the water!!


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

I have several tied up and ready to fish. Don't ignore the potential of using double drop rigs as well. I usually fish 3 fish finder rigs and 2 double drops rigs. When the weather is a bit warmer I always toss out a double drop with smaller bait for mullet, croaker, and the occasional weakie.


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## squalus (Sep 26, 2007)

Cyg - do you have a pic of your double drop rig? Is that similar to a top/bottom rig? Do you use wire spreaders or two mono loops?

Thanks!


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

squalus said:


> Cyg - do you have a pic of your double drop rig? Is that similar to a top/bottom rig? Do you use wire spreaders or two mono loops?
> 
> Thanks!


I use the variation as shown on the puupy drum rig off of HO's website. This one has you snell the hooks to either end. I also use the variation where the hooks are attached to two dropper loops. I usually use the dropper loops with larger hooks with larger eyes so that it will fit.


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## squalus (Sep 26, 2007)

OK - great!


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## fishbait (Nov 11, 2005)

Uh oh, looks like we might have ourselves a little competition at Spring Fling! Nice job there Squalus.


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## squalus (Sep 26, 2007)

fishbait said:


> Uh oh, looks like we might have ourselves a little competition at Spring Fling! Nice job there Squalus.


LOL! We may live inland, but we can be fast learners!


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## fyremanjef (Feb 17, 2005)

rig up alot. Especially now during the "down" time. I like to prepare a few rigs and bag them in small zip lock bags. A hook, as you tied, 2 plastic beads and the snap swivel. so if you have a break off all you have to do is tie on the new shock leader, if necessary and tie your stuff on. Definately cuts down on the time. 

As was said about the 2 hook dropper loop bottom rig. It is pretty useful, as you have 2 baits and depending on what bait you are using you may just nab a big one. On a side note, my first keeper rock from AI came on 2 hook dropper loop rig, I was trying for some smaller fish and well this rock wanted my blood worm a little bit more. Nice job.

My questions is, how are your fingers? Sore, red and maybe a few healing cuts and nicks?


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## squalus (Sep 26, 2007)

fyremanjef said:


> Nice job.
> 
> My questions is, how are your fingers? Sore, red and maybe a few healing cuts and nicks?


Fingers are fine except for a couple nicks from the hook points when I tugged on them to cinch down the knots. 

I took my stuff with me on the train to work this morning - I commute to Philadelphia via Amtrak. Sat there snelling hooks and tying on swivels. I got 6 done in about 40 minutes. Although I got the snell down pat, I still have to refer to a diagram for the uni-knot. I hope I soon tie enough so I'll remember how to do it wothout using a reference...


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## fingersandclaws (Oct 17, 2005)

Nice job Squalus!!! Looks nice.

IMHO, if your gonna use that at SPSP for the fling for stripers, I'd reconsider. At the NC Point for Drum, that's the go-to rig from what I've read, but for stripers, I'd make the rig a bit longer. Maybe someone else can chime in, but I've never had luck with that rig for stripers . . . maybe they are metal shy . . . I don't know.

It's great to put that on a FF Rig because the lead and bait are so close, it reduces the heli-effect, but with bloodworms, I don't think a longer rig is gonna affect it that much. Just from personal observation is all. You'd make the same rig, just make the space between the hook and swivel 20+".


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## squalus (Sep 26, 2007)

I was planning on using the 6/0 Octopus hooks at the Fling instead of the 8/0's. I'm saving the 8/0's for when we head to Hatteras.

I did the 6/0's in the same length, but considering your comment - you really think I should put 20" bite leaders on? OK. I'll tie up a few and try them out. I can always cut 'em short afterwards.


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## fishbait (Nov 11, 2005)

I'm with Fingers on that. If you're looking to toss bloods at SPSP, the loss of distance from helicoptering will be minimal. I'm going to go with about 16".


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

*yep*

It does look good, I switched over to dark green leader like Big Game or the purple yo-zuri for my rigs that I tie for myself . An old timer once told me that the darker the leader the better it seemed to work because it was "stealthier".


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## squalus (Sep 26, 2007)

All great feedback - thanks guys.

I knew I could count on P&S'ers for help.


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

You got it


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## Mudd (Jan 10, 2004)

:fishing: Looks Good!

No one has ever mentioned Baking 'em. Its an old trick that's probably more useful when they are longer or you are using 100 lb or 130 lb for the bite leader when it kinks and curls.

All of my Drum rigs when tied in advance at home get baked in the oven. Lowest oven setting (aprox 225 degrees) at 20 minutes plus warm up and cool down time. I hang em from the swivel with a 2 ounce sinker on the hook giving em a little stress. The mono ends up nice, straight, and smooth with the knots snugged tight. opcorn:


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Mudd said:


> :fishing: Looks Good!
> 
> No one has ever mentioned Baking 'em. Its an old trick that's probably more useful when they are longer or you are using 100 lb or 130 lb for the bite leader when it kinks and curls.
> 
> All of my Drum rigs when tied in advance at home get baked in the oven. Lowest oven setting (aprox 225 degrees) at 20 minutes plus warm up and cool down time. I hang em from the swivel with a 2 ounce sinker on the hook giving em a little stress. The mono ends up nice, straight, and smooth with the knots snugged tight. opcorn:


Use caution if doing this- I know your talking fairly heavy mono- but heat is BAD and will weaken mono, yes it may make it easier to work with the heavy stuff- but I'd hate to lose a nice fish due to a temperature stressed- fight stressed endurance test.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Looking good there squalus.


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## squalus (Sep 26, 2007)

Thanks for all the encouragement guys...

They might look ok, but the real test will be getting them in the water!


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## SaltSlinger (Aug 14, 2006)

So here is a (mildly stupid) question - what else besides drum will hit these rigs as they sit right on the bottom in the sand? Stripers, cobia, bluefish, sharks? I've often wondered if it is better to get the bait up off the bottom using a pulley rig or something....

While I'm at it with newbie questions - something else that has puzzled me for awhile...If you are only going to leave 3/4 or 1.5 inches of mono, why not just attach the hook directly to the swivel using a heavy split ring? Why even bother with the mono at all? Just curious what the function of the mono would be at such a small length...


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## squalus (Sep 26, 2007)

SaltSlinger - I think the theory is that the weight holds it to the sand, but because of the various currents out there, the bait tends to "flutter" so it's not actually laying on bottom per se.

I'm assuming that these rigs are used for Cobia as I ran into some guys down at the point last summer who were using them for Cobes.

They use these rigs for Stripers up in Chesapeake waters, only the leader is usually longer - see posts above mentioning 16-20" lengths.

I called it a "drum" rig because that's what I'll be using them for when I go to OBX in April.

This is just the hook section of the fishfinder rig. I'll tie this onto a leader of say 10-15 feet long after adding a bead, then a sliding swivel for the weight then another bead...

Check out the threads in the fishing bible - some have pictures of complete rigs so you get the idea.

_(and that wasn't a stupid question - I've asked much "stupider" ones - )_


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## fyremanjef (Feb 17, 2005)

SaltSlinger said:


> So here is a (mildly stupid) question - what else besides drum will hit these rigs as they sit right on the bottom in the sand? Stripers, cobia, bluefish, sharks? I've often wondered if it is better to get the bait up off the bottom using a pulley rig or something....
> 
> While I'm at it with newbie questions - something else that has puzzled me for awhile...If you are only going to leave 3/4 or 1.5 inches of mono, why not just attach the hook directly to the swivel using a heavy split ring? Why even bother with the mono at all? Just curious what the function of the mono would be at such a small length...



They say you can catch more fish with smaller hooks, but if you have a sharp circle, you can get smaller fish. Many a times, while using a 6/0 circle and blood i caught quite a few WP. so with a big hook .

The benefits of this type of rig is it is used with a fish finder, so it allows the fish time to run with the bait with out feeling the weight of the sinker. And since rockfish and others like to chew and mouth the food its nice. And with circle hooks, it allows you to sit back and let the circle hook do its job and hook in the corner of the mouth and not gut hook. So if surf fishing no hook sets are necessary.


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## Charlie2 (May 2, 2007)

While I'm at it with newbie questions - something else that has puzzled me for awhile...If you are only going to leave 3/4 or 1.5 inches of mono, why not just attach the hook directly to the swivel using a heavy split ring? Why even bother with the mono at all? Just curious what the function of the mono would be at such a small length...[/QUOTE]

I'm glad that you asked that question because I asked myself the same question and got a dumb(er) answer.

Stoopid me, not willing to accept the 'normal' just threaded on an egg weight, put on a bead then tied on a hook. I did put a swivel further on up the line to eventually stop the line from going out. This rig has worked wondermously and allows casting without a length of mono flailing? about, impeding casting distance. 

It's probably listed somewhere with a fancy name. JMHO C2


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## squalus (Sep 26, 2007)

SaltSlinger said:


> If you are only going to leave 3/4 or 1.5 inches of mono, why not just attach the hook directly to the swivel using a heavy split ring? Why even bother with the mono at all? Just curious what the function of the mono would be at such a small length...


I think you understand that the shorter piece of mono eliminates the "helicopter" effect of the bait spinning wildly on a longer leader during the cast.

My assumption on why to use mono at all is that is gives a little bit of length between the hook itself and the swivel so the fish doesn't feel the hardware when they take the bait - just the piece of bait with the imbedded hook. At least that's what I *think *is the reason. (?)

One of the other more experienced guys on here could probably answer it better.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

That is basically what we up here call a cannonball rig. Good pics and description in the Bible under drum rigs.

BTW, JMO but 16-20" for stripers is way too long. Even with just bloodworm on it will cut your distance. When I fished SPSP i used a longer 4-6" leader.


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## fyremanjef (Feb 17, 2005)

Cdog said:


> That is basically what we up here call a cannonball rig. Good pics and description in the Bible under drum rigs.
> 
> BTW, JMO but 16-20" for stripers is way too long. Even with just bloodworm on it will cut your distance. When I fished SPSP i used a longer 4-6" leader.


Most Rock are bottom feeders. With too long of a leader you run the risk of the line tangeling if not fowling/impeeding your cast.

As far as not just attaching the hook to swivel at the end of the line. Well I guess you could. I mean to tie the shock leader directly to the hook might be a problem with the size of the line. the "drum" rig with the fishfinder seems to work for now, well for me atleast. but hey its nice to have other tricks in your tackle box or at least be ready for them, as conditions can change and if the fish are biting on a longer leader, and you only have 2" ones, well you are screwed.


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## Mullet Breath (Nov 15, 2006)

Good Post,

I noticed last spring when I started fishing the cannonball rig some that I caught zero pups on it. No scientific proof or anything, but when I spiked a few rods my longer drum rigs that I mainly use down around Ft. Fisher/Carolina beach where getting tattooed by blues and an occasonial puppy drum while the cannonball rig did not. But the cannonball rig is what most of my larger drum whwere caught on. My personal opinion on why you want at least two inches or so of bite leader or at least use a swivel and a weight versus a carolina rigged egg sinker is to allow the bait to be up above the weight when on the bottom. Fishing the NC's outerbanks you'll find sometimes your weight gets "sanded" in, especially when it's slow and some:beer: has occured. by having the bait at least slightly above the weight the weight can get covered with out the bait doing the same. The best thing as mentioned to me is try different rigs and lengths, toss them in the wash and watch what the do.


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

After not having many hits this year at AI (not that many people did anyway  ) I started thinking about my bait being in the sand because I do use a cannonball rig. So what I did was to put a 2 inch float between the hook and the FF with the sinker. Still did not catch anything but I was able to get some good distance.

Also when I toss out the cannonball I reel it until it is tight then set my clicker and drag then I free spool it to let out the tension and then leave it like that after engaging the spool again. It feels like I am allowing some distance between the bait and the sinker when I do this.


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

squalus said:


> Fingers are fine except for a couple nicks from the hook points when I tugged on them to cinch down the knots.


I use about 3 - 4" dowel rod to place the hook over and to tug on. Saves the fingers.


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## dingbat (Feb 13, 2004)

A couple of suggestions learned the hard way. 

1. Increase the leader up to #100 or better. The first little nick you get on #80 and you’re fishing with a #60 or less leader.

2. Get rid of the Gammi hook and go with Owners. I've yet to see a Gammi stay sharp more than a day or so if fished heavily. The Owners are a bit more expensive but you will end up using 2- Gammi for every one Owner you go though.


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## squalus (Sep 26, 2007)

Orest said:


> I use about 3 - 4" dowel rod to place the hook over and to tug on. Saves the fingers.





dingbat said:


> A couple of suggestions learned the hard way.
> 
> 1. Increase the leader up to #100 or better. The first little nick you get on #80 and you’re fishing with a #60 or less leader.
> 
> 2. Get rid of the Gammi hook and go with Owners. I've yet to see a Gammi stay sharp more than a day or so if fished heavily. The Owners are a bit more expensive but you will end up using 2- Gammi for every one Owner you go though.


Great suggestions - thank you.


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

dingbat said:


> A couple of suggestions learned the hard way.
> 
> 1. Increase the leader up to #100 or better. The first little nick you get on #80 and you’re fishing with a #60 or less leader.
> 
> 2. Get rid of the Gammi hook and go with Owners. I've yet to see a Gammi stay sharp more than a day or so if fished heavily. The Owners are a bit more expensive but you will end up using 2- Gammi for every one Owner you go though.


Concerning item #2 I may have to disagree with you on this on I’ve fish Gamakatsu hook all season long with no problem except for losing them to snags they have stayed sharp all season long. 

Sorry for the disagreement.


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## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

squalus, your rig looks good. The important part is to make sure you can tie those knots quickly, and well so that you can rig up to match _any_ condition. Although it's important to have pre-tied rigs, sometimes conditions dictate another approach, so one has to be flexible. 

Regarding the topic of circle hooks, I've gotten away from "super sharp" circles and have gone back to the slightly dull... See post below of my personal pet theory from this thread about circle hooks 



AtlantaKing said:


> It's because of the mechanics of a circle hook. If you will imagine the path it takes, from near a fish's throat (fish don't usually chew much after hitting a bait: it's bite and swallow) to the corner of the jaw, all while it's mouth is closed, you'll notice that there's a lot of soft tissue (like the tongue and "cheeks") to get hooked on.
> 
> A sharp, offset circle hook (like a Gami Octo-circle) will snag on the soft tissue and result in a quickly shaken hook-up. This is probably why Gami Octo-circles tend to get fish shaken off in the wash...this is when the forces of the current and gravity are at their strongest on the fish's mouth, therefore the most likely to rip the hook out of the soft tissue.
> 
> ...


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## HookedThumb (Jul 10, 2007)

fyremanjef said:


> The benefits of this type of rig is it is used with a fish finder, so it allows the fish time to run with the bait with out feeling the weight of the sinker. And since rockfish and others like to chew and mouth the food its nice. And with circle hooks, it allows you to sit back and let the circle hook do its job and hook in the corner of the mouth and not gut hook. So if surf fishing no hook sets are necessary.


I am new to Saltwater, but how are you supposed to fish with a fishfinder and one of these rigs? Reason I ask is that I am imagining that the line cannot be reeled tight after the cast if the fish is not to feel the weight. The bait would be moved closer to the weight on the bottom the tighter the line is drawn. If the fish strikes the bait, and the line is tight, I would think it would have to feel something.

So after I cast, do I keep the line a little loose so the bait has more wiggle room on the bottom? Or do you just set the drag extremely loose if the fish is not to feel it? Combination of the two?


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## dingbat (Feb 13, 2004)

Fishman said:


> Concerning item #2 I may have to disagree with you on this on I’ve fish Gamakatsu hook all season long with no problem except for losing them to snags they have stayed sharp all season long.
> 
> Sorry for the disagreement.


No problem. Most likely a difference in one’s definition of sharp.


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## Hannibal (Aug 10, 2007)

What kind of shock leaders are you all running? I know most people go with 17-25 lb main line but what about from main line down to actual rig?


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

Hannibal said:


> What kind of shock leaders are you all running? I know most people go with 17-25 lb main line but what about from main line down to actual rig?


Typical rule of thumb is 10# test per 1 oz of lead. Usually for me 60# is good enough.


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## Hannibal (Aug 10, 2007)

Just making sure. I did some rod/reel cleaning and prepping (can't you tell I am getting antsy) last night while watching some hockey. I was using 80-lbs mono because it "sounded right" and I was too lazy to look it up. LOL. Sounds like I am good to go.


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## squalus (Sep 26, 2007)

yep Hannibal - you're good to go.

I currently have 50LB shock leaders on my rigs. They've held up casting 6-8 + bait so far.

If I start getting break-offs I'll switch to heavier leader material.


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## 8nb8 (Aug 30, 2005)

I started out using 80. Dropped down to 60. Was thinking the other day about dropping to 50.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

80 is a big knot. I use 50 and have not had a problem.


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## squalus (Sep 26, 2007)

Cdog said:


> 80 is a big knot. I use 50 and have not had a problem.


That's why I'm using 50... Cdog told me to...


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