# Chronic case of undersize drum keeping going on



## 1BadF350 (Jul 19, 2006)

Guys,
My assistant was down in Nags Head for the past week. He said everyone he saw surf fishing was keeping coolers full of undersize puppy drum!!! 
He basically said anything they caught went into their coolers.

Has anyone else noticed this or is it just the tourists?


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## HStew (Jan 8, 2009)

Yes, those people are the ones who will tell you the shrimp boats and commercial guys are doing ALL the bad greedy stuff-- It's hard to believe these folks don't know the word POACHER, which is the category of criminal I place them under.


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## Captain Awesome (Jul 27, 2010)

I'm just curious, from those who have seen, is this a case of ignorance or is it intentional? Not that either is and excuse. Then again I'm not sure you could tell the difference by looking. Stuff like this pisses me off when you have constant restrictions on fishing (any species) and this is part of the problem.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

The week I was on vacation it was intentional. Folks were told Pups have to be 18" to keep and they just said ok and put them away. I was on Avalon just up from you.


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## 1BadF350 (Jul 19, 2006)

Would it be correct to report these people or would I just be considered a tattle tale?


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

Make the Call


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## KB Spot Chaser (Nov 19, 2009)

1BadF350 said:


> Would it be correct to report these people or would I just be considered a tattle tale?


Been there done that while trout fishing the surf at WB, never have seen someone release fish so fast. I've said it all along that there are some very unethical recs. out there, but some around here still feel that it's the cormorants fault as to why we have no fish. Yeah right, keep on believing that.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Just out of curiosity

Were these Puppy Drum all 17.75" inches long to the Fork?

Snitches get Stitches....................oh wait............wrong Hood...............I say drop the Dime...........


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

1BadF350 said:


> Would it be correct to report these people or would I just be considered a tattle tale?



Only you can make that call. Take a look inside and do what you feel is right.......


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## HStew (Jan 8, 2009)

Poaching= stealing from me and you - I'd call the crocker cops,shrimp sheriff, oyster ossifer, put em' behind bars and let the whiting warden handle them. Hey, I obey the law so can they.


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## sunburntspike (Oct 4, 2010)

i to have witnessed this unspeakable deed on jennettes over the past week or so,funny thing tho,every time we managed a good fish,be it a cobia or king or whatever,Mr.glock -nine was present or showed within 20 min.didn't see the Man at all for the 7 days i fished and i know pups were caught every day......hmmm......


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## KB Spot Chaser (Nov 19, 2009)

1BadF350 said:


> Would it be correct to report these people or would I just be considered a tattle tale?


LEO actually setup a sting last year at TI, nailed quite a few, look for more of the same this coming fall, I've witnessed more than I care to see. Saw a fella a few yrs back walk from the bar with 3 fish in row, after his 3rd trip back out I told Dad I'll be back gotta cut some bait, needless to say he had 1 when he went back to the beach. It's my own damn fault though should have never helped the guy out in the first place. Sometimes when other's have no regard to the law,no respect for the resource, you gotta help em out with C&R.


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## Bullred (Mar 13, 2010)

Turn these people in. Yes recs break the law too.


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## hifishing (Dec 22, 2009)

Look at what we get for a license, no enforcement on a pier of all places...funny how dmf is always out there in the spring checking on hatteras/ocracoke, yet you cant get the man to stop by the piers the first weekend after Labor Day? What a joke fisheries and fisheries enforcement has become...I find it disgusting that those youngins wont grow up and be big boys for the younger generation...maybe drop a dime, maybe take care of it another way...but the lack of respect for the resource is the biggest issue for me. 

All that money for fishing licenses, NOAA and their registry, and I think it is going to get worse before it gets better...


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Witnessed this crap on Frisco many years back,before regs on pups of any kind... Folks loading coolers of them like spot.. Spot can to some degree be caught like that and come right back,but drum (because of their growth rate) just can't take this kind of heat.. It's a shame,get a good hatch of babys from last winter,and this is what folks do with them..

I don't agree with the drum regs,but do abide by them.. This is bs and I will call the man if I witness it...


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## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

I would fight some one over an under/over drum. Definately call the man. Speckeled trout especially if they are close to the limit, not such a big deal


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## roostertail (Jul 7, 2012)

People need to realize the fish and game laws are for our good. It equals bigger fish. If they are too poor to buy fish from the store then they probably shouldnt be at nags head on vacation either.


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## fishin757 (Nov 29, 2010)

i reported a few people just the other day here in vb for the same thing


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## obxrules (Sep 26, 2009)

Caught them today in Kitty Hawk. I have never seen so many small drum. Great fishing but nothing over 16 inches. And yes I will call the man if people are keeping what they aren't allowed to keep.


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## originalhooker (Nov 26, 2009)

In all honesty, I've given up on calling it in. I've yet to see anything become of the illegal activites,,,not sayin they havent or wont but first hand response is sad. Not to mention the commercial guy setting his net in masons inlet last week chasing mullet, had to raise the motor to get by, literally blocked from bank to 20 yards off the other bank (so shallow couldnt navigate). Called in multiple, multiple violations with hispanics cast netting the marshes behind wrightsville, c bch inlet, dredge pond, behind caswell.....everything caught goes in the cooler. juvenile drum,trout, flounder,,everything you'd see, saw a group earlier this summer keep 4 bay gags, small snook, must have had a dozen flounder,now all these fish were under 8- 9", just frekin sad. It goes on nightly under the cover of darkness. reported a group off mercers earlier the spring, must have had 15 black seabass under 8". drive down snows cut on a weekend south on the river.. you'll see, just frekin sad. 
What burns me the most is when, i've found some fish, noone ANYWHERE near me for multiple outings , and get checked. 3x I've been checked .. and 3x the next time I go fish there's guys in the spot! Get freking real, don't use your %(*^& badge to approach me then call your buds. I hear this from others also.


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## ReelKingin (Aug 3, 2009)

I was fishing in a unnamed area 2 weeks ago, caught several under size pups and 1 flounder....noticed 2 yaks down below me, about 150yards or less....about an hr later, i moved spots and this guy walks up to me and says "No size to them drum huh?" I said, nah not really all throwbacks...He said yeah we noticed...I mentioned that he must have hawk like vision and he said, "I dont but these do" Set a very nice small sleak high end banaculars (excuse spelling) I said WOW very nice, yall watching birds and stuff from the yaks? He so yes, and people...Then he showed me his badge, a plain clothed DMF!! I about **** myself, first for me...I told him awesome job, glad they were out and goodluck! 

I've called DMF before on people from the beache/backwaters/pier & didnt really go no where....Now I just tell them hey, you know theres a size limit on them? And if they ignore it or tell me to hit the trail? I tell them im making a phone in 2 mins if they dont throw it back...works more than half the time


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## vafish4me (Jul 25, 2012)

The keeping of undersized or oversized fish is just wrong. I see it alot on the Potomac up by Great falls during the spring Striper run. I caught my first puppy's ever last weekend. threw the tape on them and nothing over 15.5". Back in the water they go. I really want to try some drum but ok with waiting till I catch a legal one. I agree with Reelkingin, tell them your going to make the call. your giving them a chance to do right , the man will not.


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## EABiker (Aug 16, 2010)

You could always go up to them and say, "Hey, you better get rid of those, there is a Ranger over there checking all the coolers; you don't want to be caught with those!" They will think you are doing them a favor...


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## lookinglasself (May 30, 2010)

I've noticed it too, but not nearly as bad as most of you. Also noticed some illegal harvesting of clams from closed waters the other day..


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## drumchaser (Jan 14, 2003)

Book Em Danno!!


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*Breaking the Law Is Breaking the Law*

No matter who does it.. There is Bad on both sides, this is True, But there is More Bad in the Fisheries Management, then all the Bad Recs and all the Bad Comms combined.. 

Fact a Comerant eats 2.3 pounds of fish a day, now they can only handle "LITTLE FISH" due to their Size.. So they eat the BABIES.. I have been on the Beach in the late fall early December and watched the Comerants come out of Hatteras Inlet Sound Side and Fly up the Beach. They were Streched from CAPE POINT and beyond all the way from Hatteras Inlet.. To say there were Thousands of them would be an understatement.. Do the Math..2.3 pounds of Baby Fish a day X hundreds of thousands of Comerants. Mis-Management(NOAAand all State DMF's), DogSharks, and Comerants are our enemy, Not Fellow Fishermen... 

That Comerant Statement is about as funny as the Fish Venting Statement of 90% survival rate for a Vented Fish.. Sure it survives you popping him, and the Shark appericiates the Free Meal.. 

Unitited we Stand 
Divided We Fall 
JAM


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## greg12345 (Jan 8, 2007)

just my opinion but "fellow fishermen" who are knowlingly breaking the law by keeping multiple undersize drum are still an "enemy"...i would call if i saw that


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## hifishing (Dec 22, 2009)

greg12345 said:


> just my opinion but "fellow fishermen" who are knowlingly breaking the law by keeping multiple undersize drum are still an "enemy"...i would call if i saw that


Look at any fishery and please tell me one that is managed at least half way decently? These people cant even enforce the laws they have, and they have been given lots of money to do so. If there was enforcement maybe we would be having a thumbs up thread instead of should I call the man? thread. Even if you do will he even show up? Ok they are in a kayak in plain clothes, yet on land, there is a problem? Doesnt seem to be the best use of resources...a kayak or a suv going to all the piers and checking those spiking it up on the beach? Dont they have a marine division for the water?

United we stand...amen jam


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## mahimarauder (Jul 8, 2011)

By all means, call the man! I wouldnt think twice about it! All I can think about is the first drum I ever caught, a 40 pounder, and if they will still be around at that size if this kinda crap keeps up. same thing with the flounder, specks, etc.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

hifishing said:


> Look at any fishery and please tell me one that is managed at least half way decently? These people cant even enforce the laws they have, and they have been given lots of money to do so. If there was enforcement maybe we would be having a thumbs up thread instead of should I call the man? thread. Even if you do will he even show up? Ok they are in a kayak in plain clothes, yet on land, there is a problem? Doesnt seem to be the best use of resources...a kayak or a suv going to all the piers and checking those spiking it up on the beach? Dont they have a marine division for the water?
> 
> United we stand...amen jam


 Actually Texas is doing fairly well with their management... 
As far as them checking piers,yes they do that,but they are understaffed.. One guy has to cover a lot of ground.. The one I know in Hatteras is a straight shooter,and does do his job,but one man can only be in so many places at once.. Remember all the complants about 2yrs ago in the winter when folks were being caught with illegal drum?? 

I'm not totally against what Jam is saying.. No doubt cormorant are way overpopulated,and we need a gun season on the damn things to thin them out,as well as the spinies.. And,yes ncdmf does **** up right steadily,but the one officer I know is doing his job.. IF you call him,he WILL come....


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## hifishing (Dec 22, 2009)

Drumdum said:


> Actually Texas is doing fairly well with their management...
> As far as them checking piers,yes they do that,but they are understaffed.. One guy has to cover a lot of ground.. The one I know in Hatteras is a straight shooter,and does do his job,but one man can only be in so many places at once.. Remember all the complants about 2yrs ago in the winter when folks were being caught with illegal drum??
> 
> I'm not totally against what Jam is saying.. No doubt cormorant are way overpopulated,and we need a gun season on the damn things to thin them out,as well as the spinies.. And,yes ncdmf does **** up right steadily,but the one officer I know is doing his job.. IF you call him,he WILL come....


DD, I hear you about the one guy on hatteras. Not saying he is a bad guy, and yes I remember that bite back in the winter a couple years ago. If it were a local devistated from the policies of the NPS, and is fishing for food, well um...lets just say I may just give the man my fish...1 fish in nc yet in va its 3? DMF has a long way to go...doggies, cormorants, menhaden, stripers, bluefish, weakies, flounder, bluefin, salmon, cod, haddock, ect ect ect...

The management of these resources is what the problem is...these agencies, NOAA, NMFS, DMF, and the enforcement of the laws using a lot of questionable "science" is affecting all facets of the fishery...commercial, recreational, and for the fish themselves. That is IMO why coms and recs need to stand together...instead its fighting over the dollars, always the dollars...


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

hifishing said:


> DD, I hear you about the one guy on hatteras. Not saying he is a bad guy, and yes I remember that bite back in the winter a couple years ago. If it were a local devistated from the policies of the NPS, and is fishing for food, well um...lets just say I may just give the man my fish...1 fish in nc yet in va its 3? DMF has a long way to go...doggies, cormorants, menhaden, stripers, bluefish, weakies, flounder, bluefin, salmon, cod, haddock, ect ect ect...
> 
> The management of these resources is what the problem is...these agencies, NOAA, NMFS, DMF, and the enforcement of the laws using a lot of questionable "science" is affecting all facets of the fishery...commercial, recreational, and for the fish themselves. That is IMO why coms and recs need to stand together...instead its fighting over the dollars, always the dollars...


 Understood,and I'm as p*ssed as you and Jam about many regs,especially on red drum.. The regs that I am most upset about are nofishzones.. Eventually they will come,that is when you will see coms and recs come together too late.. Far as the comorant and spinie thing goes,cormorants eat small stuff and need to be thined..When you see the critters laying in mass inside of duckblinds dead and starved to death because they can't get the air under their winds to fly,that should tell you there are WAAAAY too many of them.. Spinies are thicker than I have ever seen in all my time fishing. They not only eat small fish,but some decent sized ones as well. When you are bucktailing for drum and stripers and spinies are what is eating your bucktail,there are waaaay to many of them... Lets not even discuss how many trout,pups,and all other species they eat and lawd help ya if ya wanna keep a bottombait out..

As far as the topic,a reg with 2 or 3 pups is not out of order,the 18" reg is completely reasonable and should be inforced. Those are just my thoughts,and I have to live with the regs they have,because I'm not a poacher,and detest it.. Folks putting masses of these fish in their coolers is criminal,and they should be called on it and fined up the yingyang....


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*I consider*

the Hatteras Fish Cop, My Friend, and I believe he considers me the same and I have his Number, both personal and pro in my phone.. He is very Fair, and tbh, if ya ain't doin nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about.. 

JAM


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## 1BadF350 (Jul 19, 2006)

This thread has nothing to do with management or marine fisheries. It has everything to do with people breaking a law that was put in place for the protection of the species.


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## Alexy (Nov 1, 2010)

EABiker said:


> You could always go up to them and say, "Hey, you better get rid of those, there is a Ranger over there checking all the coolers; you don't want to be caught with those!" They will think you are doing them a favor...


good call.


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## jay b (Dec 1, 2002)

By then they're just Crab bait. I call every time, especially if they don't listen when you tell them they're undersized !!


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

"This thread has nothing to do with management or marine fisheries"

Actually on this Island environment all things are related

Marine Fisheries are the Fish Cops, they are the ones you call. who along with NPS Rangers write the tickets and if miscreant have enough tickets, ie a whole cooler full of illegal fish the Marine Fisheries Officer is the the one who hauls said miscreant to Manteo for remedial training....

The Marine fisheries Officers spend their days looking for violations, be it from a Comm or some fella from Ohio who pretends to be ignorant of the size limits. When I was a comm, at least one morning a week a Blue uniform was waiting at the dock to inspect that mornings haul....


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## vafish4me (Jul 25, 2012)

Virginia Conservation Police Notebook

To increase awareness of the activities of our dedicated Conservation Police Officers, previously called game wardens, the "Virginia Conservation Police Notebook" provides an overview of the variety of activities encountered by our officers who protect natural resources and people pursuing outdoor recreation in the fields, woods and waters of Virginia.
Reports from the field officer's notebook...

Region I - Tidewater

CPOs Discover 33 Undersized Fish... On September 3, 2012, Conservation Police Officers Josh Jackson and Josh Thomas were patrolling Westmoreland County, when they observed several shoreline fishermen. Upon inspection of the fishermen's creel the officers discovered 19 undersized red drum, 4 undersized striped bass, 8 undersized flounder and 2 undersized speckled trout. Charges were placed for the possession of illegal fish.


Three down and many more to go to stop this madness. Make the call people. Just observe, walk away, and discreetly make the call as to avoid possible confrontations with the POS'S.


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## pogeymoe (May 5, 2009)

wake up to the real issues guys flounder can be legally kept by commercial fishermen 1 inch shorter than rec fisherman that is why its hard to catch a keeper and its true with many species yall keep throwing back 1 inch short fish so they can be netted not me when size limits are the same i will follow the "law" as of now the law is just a tool to ensure money gets in someones pocket they try to make us think size limits are in place because they care about the resource when in reality its nothing but a money racket catch it kill it trap it eat it that is natural people caught and kept all sizes of all species for years and there was plenty think about that we pay for asalt water liscense to throw back a million 1 inch short fish just to have them netted packaged and sold to us in a store that aint natural its root is greed any way you look at it to feel like a criminal for keeping a short fish when you really look at why size limits are what they are isnt what i feel make the size limits the same for rec and comer and increaes all size limits by 3 inches in ten years stocks will improve if comm guys are not allowed to rape the resources look at mullet as a teen in the fall there was a never ending line of big mullet on the beach why isnt there anymore money its always about thr dollar


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## pogeymoe (May 5, 2009)

i havent kept short fish and havent been able to even fish just want you guys to see the other side of the coin what should matter to everyone is keeping stocks healthy not who can take the most


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## WaterLou (Oct 4, 2007)

I say make the call. I was quite surprised to see a game warden on the beach a few weeks ago. I rushed out of the water, showed him my license and opened my empty cooler since I had been releasing all the little ones I was catching. Perhaps a bit more enforcement would be in order to not waste this great opportunity for keeper size pups next year.


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## yerbyray (May 18, 2010)

I haven't called in many years since I haven't noticed any infractions but I would like to chime in. I use to be a communications officer for a state agency and people would call us routinely to report crimes in progress and criminal/dangerous acts and I found that most people don't have a clue.

Know where you are, give a detailed description of the bad guys, and insist to the operator that you leave a call back number.

Most folks don't understand or know how this works but Wildlife Communications Center is in Garner, NC and all calls are routed to there and then given out to the officers in the field. It may have changed in recent years but that was how it was worked in the past. So the better information you give leads to a better chance they will be caught.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

I must be one of those people without a clue....

It has been over twenty years since I fished commercially off the Outer Banks, it was a decent way to make a living, for most that fished Hatteras in those days it was not about the dollar, but it was about fishing for a living and being able spend your days out on the water in a boat, not chained to a desk or beholden to corporate protocol or a company procedure manual drafted by Attorney's.

I recollect from that time that very few inshore fish besides Red Drum and Sturgeon were restricted

Off limits were Drum over 28 inches to commercial fishermen, a Rec at that time could keep one large drum per day and I was around when hundreds of large drum were killed during an afternoon blitz at the Point. I think it is easier to catch a large drum these days than back in the day, all you have to do is be able to cast and have some commercial fisherman bring you some good bait.

The Drum were seldom encountered large or small mostly due to where we set our nets, primarily targeting Spanish in Summer and Trout in the Fall. We caught a great deal of 3-6 pound Spanish out in deep water in the Pamlico. In the fall we caught a great deal of 4-5 pound Specs

Maybe its because Hatteras is an Island and the people who live there have had to find ways to help and support each other, the one thing I have never heard from an Islander was a complaint about some commercial fisherman raping and pillaging the resources.

I also never heard someone tell a Hatteras Commercial fisherman to his face, that he spends his days taking fish that rightfully should belong to some fella from Raleigh or Charleston WV or 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue Washington DC and that he is a scourge and a eco criminal and should cease and get a less troublesome job that does not interfere with my playtime...

It is only on the Internet, or in hushed tones behind someones back that people talk tough....

If you can not catch a legal flounder you must not be using live shrimp, or live mullet, or maybe a Dragger did come by and they wiped out all the flounders large and small in your area

Or maybe you are not using a River Rig, try the one with the red beads...


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*GARBO has always gotton It*

and nailed it again... I have started Comm fishing and I can tell you the Nets are Efficient, if you set 2 1/2 mesh and 2 and 5/8 mesh, down current you pretty much catch what you are after. We caught 600 pounds of Sea Mullet in a Day fishing 1,750 yard shots.. The ONLY By catch we had was, 25 Pounds Butter Fish 13 Pounds of Grey Trout and a 20 pound Monk Fish (got nice money for him) do the math and you will see the ratio of by catch was dam near nonexistent.. Most who speak negitive of the Comms, know absolutley nothing about Comm fishing and Net Sizes... The enemy is NOAA< and all the DMF's and their Agenda.. 

JAM


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## KB Spot Chaser (Nov 19, 2009)

JAM said:


> and nailed it again... I have started Comm fishing and I can tell you the Nets are Efficient, if you set 2 1/2 mesh and 2 and 5/8 mesh, down current you pretty much catch what you are after. We caught 600 pounds of Sea Mullet in a Day fishing 1,750 yard shots.. The ONLY By catch we had was, 25 Pounds Butter Fish 13 Pounds of Grey Trout and a 20 pound Monk Fish (got nice money for him) do the math and you will see the ratio of by catch was dam near nonexistent.. Most who speak negitive of the Comms, know absolutley nothing about Comm fishing and Net Sizes... The enemy is NOAA< and all the DMF's and their Agenda..
> 
> JAM


and um shrimp trawls, or trawls completely.


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## originalhooker (Nov 26, 2009)

i second that trawl remark. Nothing around hear is so destructive or does not discriminate, If you can swim outta the way ( usually bigger fish - u live) if your small & discovering your new water environment- u die!

been on trawlers inshore & offshore & have seen many times hundreds /even thousands lbs of by-catch get pushed over ( theses are usually every inshore/offshore fish less than 3-4", it takes alot of 3" trout to make a lb!
many drags youd get a basket or 2 of shrimp & 2-3 truck loads of small fishes. I remember a test drag we did in 91' off wrightsville/cb I bet we had 1000lbs of finfish, just a mountain of longspine, red porgies, grey trout, tongue fish/flounders out the wazoo.....maybe 15 -20% made it....away with the trawlers & YES MOST DEFINITELY THE FREAKIN STRIPER SEASON!
yes, i'm now ranting....
Dont make this a rec vs comm thing -- some things are just wrong! Shame on you fisheries people for allowing those things. 

new subject,
An observation came to me yesterday,,,our Govs way of handling things is just to close them. Our parks people couldn't "come up with a plan" so let's just close the beaches...
Our fisheries people still can't manage the fish, So let's just just close them down.....
however only by our gov, things everyone knows we shouldnt do they do...
Housing situation-loans,,,bailout
banks slipping - bailout
GM, oops - bailout
economy - bailout 
The list could be looooong
WHY Dont you close the importants!


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## HStew (Jan 8, 2009)

*large and small mesh*

If I was setting stop nets I would set the bigger mesh upcurrent of the smaller mesh, then the smaller fish would wiggle through the larger mesh and get stopped by the smaller mesh net. If the bigger fish hit the smaller net they would not gill and would go over or around that net., and maybe missing the larger mesh net. If I ran a circle of net say 8' in 6' of water then zig-zag a larger mesh net inside the circle that would catch more than vise-versa.


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## DANtheJDMan (Aug 29, 2012)

My wife and I were just out on a pier in Fort Desoto park in Florida. A non-English speaking gentleman was just leaving the pier and the game warden asked to check his catch. The game warden placed the fish in a nice row and started counting from the top. As he counted he started getting louder and loader until he said 16, 17 undersized fish. I think they were mangrove snapper or something like that forked yellow tail. 
He told the guy "Your lucky I'm the one that caught you because if it was the guys I work with you would be going to jail.
Don't know how it turned out. We sort of faded away. The guy we go with in Texas won't take an 18" red the first thing in the morning because it will shrink up on ice all day.
If I see you catching undersize I'll ask you if you think its legal and if you don't know the species I'll try to help. I'm no expert but if you can't ID um you need to let'um go.
Turn in poachers All of um.


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## mike horst (Feb 23, 2004)

I fished Avon Pier for a week back in late August.
Anglers were catching many pups, but many of them
did not know how to properly identify what they were
catching. Many of them thought they were catching
mullet. I had a fellow tell me (after I released a short
pup) that there are plenty of them out there. I think
he was implying that I should keep the fish. I told him
that I didn't want to get a fine...he released all that he caught
after our conversation.

I believe that poachers are thieves, and will drop a dime
on any that I see. I have done so here in Maryland, where I
live.


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