# Knot or Crimp?



## jhook (Jul 27, 2008)

Is there any rule of thumb in determining what lb. mono you would go to crimps rather than tie knots?


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## matt anderson (Jan 29, 2006)

jhook said:


> Is there any rule of thumb in determining what lb. mono you would go to crimps rather than tie knots?


IMO eny thing over 100lb test i use crimps


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

if you can't personaly tie it......crimp it..

i can tie up to 130# then it gets tough on these old fingers.


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## Entropy (Mar 9, 2008)

AirDown said:


> if you can't personaly tie it......crimp it..
> 
> i can tie up to 130# then it gets tough on these old fingers.


QFT

id rather tie, but if i cant then i break out the crimps. pretty simple.


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## jhook (Jul 27, 2008)

For a normal leader,I tie a bimini in the main line, the the double line to a Yucatan knot, and tie the hook on with a 3 wrap uni. I can see the bimini and Yucatan knot would be OK, but what knot do you tie the hook on with 130lb. test?


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## OBX Jay (Sep 3, 2007)

jhook said:


> For a normal leader,I tie a bimini in the main line, the the double line to a Yucatan knot, and tie the hook on with a 3 wrap uni. I can see the bimini and Yucatan knot would be OK, but what knot do you tie the hook on with 130lb. test?



Ditto, I can't tie a fishable knot in anything more than 50#
opcorn:


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

jhook said:


> For a normal leader,I tie a bimini in the main line, the the double line to a Yucatan knot, and tie the hook on with a 3 wrap uni. I can see the bimini and Yucatan knot would be OK, but what knot do you tie the hook on with 130lb. test?


i can snell 130#


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## OBX Jay (Sep 3, 2007)

AirDown said:


> i can snell 130#


Oh, didn't think about a snell. I snell with 100# but never use anything more than that. I crimp 100# on the swivel end of a leader.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

i tie that end also. reverse uni and you got a nail knot connecting the swivel.


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## matt anderson (Jan 29, 2006)

I got fed up with trying to make short drum leaders so i went to crimps


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## Oldmulletbreath (Jan 7, 2006)

Use 130lb leader mono to snell your rigs, it is much limper and much easier to tie than regular 130 mono. Crimp to your swivel and you can get super short rigs. Use a good crimper and the right size crimps and you are in.


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## jhook (Jul 27, 2008)

Great info,thanks.


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

jhook said:


> For a normal leader,I tie a bimini in the main line, the the double line to a Yucatan knot, and tie the hook on with a 3 wrap uni. I can see the bimini and Yucatan knot would be OK, but what knot do you tie the hook on with 130lb. test?


i can snell 100+ with no problems...
then tie a leader to a swivel with a clinch, nail, or uni.

so my rigs are: shocker 'palomar' swivel 'clinch' trace 'snell' hook..
if i need quick, ill crimp the hook on instead.


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

I use a nail knot tool to snell and to tie nail knots for hooks/swivels with heavy mono. I bought both the big and small nail knot tool for doing that. I was only using the small one, but I got the big one not too long ago and it makes tying the knots extremely easy, and they're very well tied knots that I'm confident in. 

The thing you have to remember above all is to use what you know you can tie well, and that you have confidence in. If I tie a crappy knot, or one that I think might be crappy, I cut it and start over. I'd rather lose 3-4 minutes tying a new knot rather than losing a nice fish because my knot crapped out.


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## RW_20 (Oct 16, 2007)

I'll throw a question in here for you guys that use crimps. Do you ever have issues with over crimping and damaging the line in the barrel where you may not see. With the different size line and crimp barrels is it just experience. I've had store bought rigs in the past where line has been over crimped and broke, or been under crimped and simply pulled apart.

Now for my rigs I use the snell, except for line of 110# and up I like the reverse snell. The heavier line tends to twist and distort with the standard snell.(in the wrapping prosess). Any tips to solve the twisting problem. The reverse snell is a little harder to do.
Plus you guys always talk about making your rigs on the spot, but I like making all mine in the shop with the help of a vise, that way I can get the knots really tight and I'll pull the snot out of em to prestress them. I just make enough to last ever how long I'll be down.


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## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

Tying can be done for really thick line, like 200-400#. The trick is to treat the line like wire rather than mono; it really doesn't have the limpness to form the usual knots we're used to tying. However, a three wrap uni works great if you take care to massage the wraps down snugly. 

I usually tie all of my rigs, up to 200lb test, although it's tricky and best done at home. I guess at some point, I'll get a pair of crimpers and see what sorts of messes I can crimp up 



racewire20 said:


> Now for my rigs I use the snell, except for line of 110# and up I like the reverse snell. The heavier line tends to twist and distort with the standard snell.(in the wrapping prosess). Any tips to solve the twisting problem. The reverse snell is a little harder to do.
> Plus you guys always talk about making your rigs on the spot, but I like making all mine in the shop with the help of a vise, that way I can get the knots really tight and I'll pull the snot out of em to prestress them. I just make enough to last ever how long I'll be down.


If you want to do a standard snell, it helps to twist the line in the opposite direction that it'd be twisted when you snell. Just imagine what it looks like when you snell and the direction the snell twists the line and go the other way. Also, the trick to the reverse snell is that you can't skimp on the line on the loop end (ie, when I do that, I leave 12-16" of line to snell with); when you make the loop big enough, it is way easier to form the wraps properly.


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

racewire20 said:


> I'll throw a question in here for you guys that use crimps. Do you ever have issues with over crimping and damaging the line in the barrel where you may not see. With the different size line and crimp barrels is it just experience. I've had store bought rigs in the past where line has been over crimped and broke, or been under crimped and simply pulled apart.


yes this CAN happen.
if you get the correct size crimps, it shouldnt happen. if your 100# is .90mm
get a 1.0mm crimp. not a 1.5mm crimp.

i like using single barrel aluminum alloy crimps. you need to know how to read and use the crimper.

do not crimp a crimp like 3 times in different spots... 2 at most. only in the middle. never on the ends.
if it is crimped with the correct crimper size hole.. the ends should flare out like bowtie/trumpet
in the center, the crimp would compress the 2 lines so tight, it wont ever move.
and it would never cut the line that way. since the sharp ends are flared outwards.
this is why crimps can have over 100% strength. while knots can only achieve a max of maybe about 80%.

there is no knot, curls, turns, thatll weaken line.


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## seajay (Dec 18, 2005)

This should help you as far as crimping.
http://www.leadertec.com/tipsandtechniques/crimp_techniques.html

One of the biggest mistakes made when tying knots in heavy mono is using too many wraps and not cinching down the finished knot.


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## OBX Jay (Sep 3, 2007)

seajay said:


> This should help you as far as crimping.
> http://www.leadertec.com/tipsandtechniques/crimp_techniques.html
> 
> One of the biggest mistakes made when tying knots in heavy mono is using too many wraps and not cinching down the finished knot.


Thanks seajay, great link. A quality crimping tool is a must.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

seajay said:


> This should help you as far as crimping.
> http://www.leadertec.com/tipsandtechniques/crimp_techniques.html
> 
> One of the biggest mistakes made when tying knots in heavy mono is using too many wraps and not cinching down the finished knot.


 I use a crimping tool and crimps when I'm on the boat and have to use mono in excess of 130... If I'm in the truck on the beach or on the planks and drumfishing I use a 3 wrap nail knot tied by hand.. I have everything hooks,swivels,line,toenail clippers,pliers,ect in that bag,but tend to lighten the load of extras like crimping pliers crimps,knot tools,ect, and leave that for the boat..Since I first started fishing, can cinch down a hand tied, three wrap nail with no problem,and have never had one break or come untied..


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

That nail knot has got the be the greatest not in the history of the earth. Great for everything....almost


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## seajay (Dec 18, 2005)

Drumdum said:


> I use a crimping tool and crimps when I'm on the boat and have to use mono in excess of 130... If I'm in the truck on the beach or on the planks and drumfishing I use a 3 wrap nail knot tied by hand.. I have everything hooks,swivels,line,toenail clippers,pliers,ect in that bag,but tend to lighten the load of extras like crimping pliers crimps,knot tools,ect, and leave that for the boat..Since I first started fishing, can cinch down a hand tied, three wrap nail with no problem,and have never had one break or come untied..


So I take it you Blue Water Fish. When on the Boat we use a Crimping Press, as we are Tournament fishing for Blue Marlin and Tuna. So Knots do not work even in 100# Class. On the Beach any thing over 30# is over kill on our Beaches. Unless you are Sharkin.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

seajay said:


> So I take it you Blue Water Fish. When on the Boat we use a Crimping Press, as we are Tournament fishing for Blue Marlin and Tuna. So Knots do not work even in 100# Class. On the Beach any thing over 30# is over kill on our Beaches. Unless you are Sharkin.


 We DO HAVE uses for 100 here in the surf,for both cobes and drum.. It's hard teaching an ole dawg new tricks,and the nail is what I was taught at the start when learning to drumfish....

Used to bluewater fish a lot,that's why I still have a crimping tool.. Have not been in a while..That could change this summer if folks here on Hatteras keep getting those grand slams like past few yrs...


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## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

I stopped Crimping and only do it when Absoulutely Neccesary. I sliced my hand pretty good over the summer because of a crimp.

Crimps cut line as well when fishing with others in a group, probably easier than braid will cut line. When a fish is moving back and forth crimps can sct like knives when other line is around, especially when under pressure.

I quit Crimping even for bottom fishing.


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## jhook (Jul 27, 2008)

Yup, the main reason I asked this question was to determine if/when you need to go to crimps.I'll be tying up some rigs from what I've learned here.In reading up on some of the drum rigs and such they're all tied with heavy mono and the shark rigs use crimps on heavier mono.I don't own or use crimps yet, but was wondering where the line was drawn in the sand .I'll definitely need to be practicing tying snells with 135lb. mono.


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## Puppy Mullet (Dec 5, 2003)

I surf fish only.

I crimp both the barrel AND the eye of the hook with 130 leader material.
about 2" apart.
2 barrel seastriker crimps.
Never lost a Drum or had any type of failure.
25 citations so far since I started doing it.
4 fish were between 50" and 54" fork length.
Spider and DD are pros. And like them I know what works for me and you couldn't make me change if ya tried.
Just like a preference in Hook styles.
My hook up ratio is running at 100%
Loss ratio.. 0%
2ct.
Pup


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## Adam (Feb 19, 2001)

Snell hook(10/0 Owner SSW), 3-turn clinch to swivel with 100#. 99% of the time I get em short and straight, never had one come loose. Caught many carhoods, drum, and a 7' Blacktip on my rigs, never had one break.


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## JFord56 (Feb 5, 2008)

Any line over about 60# whipps my Azz for a good knot. Crimps then for me.


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