# Shock leader failure, just ahead of knot



## Tristan (Jun 22, 2006)

I just had a failure of a 30 lb shock leader, tied onto 15 or 20 lb braid. The leader failed on a cast, just ahead of the improved albright knot which joined the lines.

I had made approximately 30 casts or so when it happened.

I seem to remember that happening to others in the past. 

Is there a way to avoid this in the future?

Thanks,

Tristan


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## dchfm123 (Jun 11, 2011)

When you are clinching down the knot are you wetting it so that there is less friction as it tightens up? Also you can try a uni to uni, or uni to overhand. I have been using the uni to overhand and it has been working out great. It goes through the guides good and is surprisingly strong.


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## Jarosh (Jun 29, 2010)

What size weight are you using? General rule is 1oz for every 10lbs of rated weight in your shock. With 30lb shock I'd only use 3 or less oz of weight.


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

I use the uni to uni and it works well for me.


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## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2006)

The leader was on the spool and it snapped on the cast?


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## surfmom (Nov 3, 2012)

I dont know the names of the knots i use but i make a surgeons knot with braid then wrsp it aroundthe mono about 9 times take the tag end of mono put thru braided loop hold tag and lead line and pull on braid. Wet knot when starts to set....thers a video by "maybe tonight charters " that i got it from.


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## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2006)

I like an albright with a dab of knot sense on it


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## AKrichard (Jan 3, 2010)

i continually had the exact issue with the albright, finally gave up on using it. I use braid only, back to back uni knots have been flawless. The Uni works so good, i never tried any other knots. Many swear by other knot systems, and maybe they are better, i just don't know first hand. Also, what i've always have done, as my dad taught me, is examine the line often, and retie at the slightest hint of damage. "Catch more fish, loose less gear", is what he said.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Ditch the Albright use a double uni with either spider hitch or if you are industrious and over meticulous a Bimini on your running line

Most times you can take an Albright in your two bare hands and part the line without hardly any effort


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Garbo, most REFUSE to see the advantages of a double line shock knot.....I learned my lesson thanks to Kenny some years back.


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## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2006)

I'm not sure I've ever had an albright fail, and I've had some pressure on it, but think I'll give the UNI-UNI a try


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I'm not sure I've ever had an albright fail, and I've had some pressure on it, but think I'll give the UNI-UNI a try



Just pop the line sections containing the Albright smartly with your two hands and it will failopcorn:


Kenny will probably pop a bimini to double uni with his crusty paws but I am a more refined office boy type with tender paws at the moment


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## KevinImX0 (Dec 25, 2011)

spider hitch & no name or bristol or yucatan


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## catchneat (May 13, 2013)

If your knots too big it will catch bad! I had a rod that had knock off guides and the knot would catch in the support of the guide


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## dchfm123 (Jun 11, 2011)

The Albright is a great knot when using large diameter mono and braid. Its really the only knot you can use with 100 pound and heavier mono and is a very strong knot with heavy lines. On light line is not good, you have t leave the tag end on the mono to long to make the knot hold. I use the Albright on my 80w and 900h shark reels but im also using 80 pound line on the 900 and 130 on the 80w. When I tie it I make sure to do 10 wraps down on the braid and then an additional 5 back and then I tie tie the tag end of the braid 5 each over hand and under hand alternating. I leave about 1/4 tag on the mono. I have never had it fail tied this way. I still use the uni to uni, or uni to overhand on smaller diameter lines.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

AbuMike said:


> Garbo, most REFUSE to see the advantages of a double line shock knot.....I learned my lesson thanks to Kenny some years back.


 It is hard for some folks to see just how much stronger a double line is, especially when connecting two different diameter lines...



Garboman said:


> Just pop the line sections containing the Albright smartly with your two hands and it will failopcorn:
> 
> 
> Kenny will probably pop a bimini to double uni with his crusty paws but I am a more refined office boy type with tender paws at the moment


 Actually Mike,an Albright and a bloodknot are the two knots that I love to break and are EASY on my hands when I break them.. Bimini with two double unis is kinda tough... 



dchfm123 said:


> The Albright is a great knot when using large diameter mono and braid. Its really the only knot you can use with 100 pound and heavier mono and is a very strong knot with heavy lines. On light line is not good, you have t leave the tag end on the mono to long to make the knot hold. I use the Albright on my 80w and 900h shark reels but im also using 80 pound line on the 900 and 130 on the 80w. When I tie it I make sure to do 10 wraps down on the braid and then an additional 5 back and then I tie tie the tag end of the braid 5 each over hand and under hand alternating. I leave about 1/4 tag on the mono. I have never had it fail tied this way. I still use the uni to uni, or uni to overhand on smaller diameter lines.


 Not an Albright fan when it comes to mono to mono,braid to mono,but you take wire to mono I'll tie it every time it is necessary to do so...


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## RoryGoggin (Jan 6, 2005)

Try a Sebile knot


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## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2006)

OK, I'm convinced. Just pop tested the albright I just tied on 50# to 15#. Snapped easy. retied with the uni uni and couldn't bust it.

Now, tips on the Uni to Uni?
do the 50# first around the fifteen?
How many turns on each line holds well?


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## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2006)

how short can i cut the tags?


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

RoryGoggin said:


> Try a Sebile knot


 Great knot,but would hate to tie it in the dark or in the middle of a blitz... Can tie a bimini in the dark,no sweat.. It is without a doubt the best knot to attach smaller braid to bigger mono though,acts like Chinese handcuffs pretty impressive.. 



[email protected] said:


> OK, I'm convinced. Just pop tested the albright I just tied on 50# to 15#. Snapped easy. retied with the uni uni and couldn't bust it.
> 
> Now, tips on the Uni to Uni?
> do the 50# first around the fifteen?
> How many turns on each line holds well?


 First off,double the 15 then you can tie 4 loops in 15 to 3 loops in the 50.. If you really want the strength,maybe a little smaller knot as well,tie a 3 wrap nailknot in the 50 with a 4 wrap uni in the 15 after doubling the 15... You want a knot that sides through the guides a little easier,double the 15 and tie a no-name.. 



[email protected] said:


> how short can i cut the tags?


Tied properly,cut them as tight as you like..


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## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2006)

OK,

Stayed up all night working on and testing knots. Can tie the first part of the simple beauty but I don't like the second part. Can tie the small diameter part of the uni-uni no problem.

So... I tried doing the parts of each one of those that I can do well and that I like which is a big part of a successful knot I think. The result was a slim profile, easy to tie, very strong. I'm going to go with this for a while.

Tie a double overhand knot in the large diameter end and pull until it folds over on itself forming a figure eight. thread the small diameter line through the large openings in the figure eight. on the small diameter line, tie a 7 turn uni around the large diameter line and set it, but not from the tag, slide the uni up to the figure eight. Tighten the figure eight and jam it to the uni. Then pull hard on the tag ends to set. trim close.

Does this knot have a name?


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## surfmom (Nov 3, 2012)

this is what I use and its very strong, never had a problem so far but wish I knew the name of the knot he uses with the surgeons. Its pretty simple, I just forget to hold the tag and running line together and pull the braid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGZ3PUi9ZAM


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## Jersey Hunter (Jul 26, 2009)

Tristan said:


> I just had a failure of a 30 lb shock leader, tied onto 15 or 20 lb braid. The leader failed on a cast, just ahead of the improved albright knot which joined the lines.
> 
> I had made approximately 30 casts or so when it happened.
> 
> ...


Are you talking about a shock leader or a bite leader? How long is your leader? I don't see how a shock leader breaks when it's wrapped 5 or 6 times around your reel.


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## Tristan (Jun 22, 2006)

Jersey Hunter said:


> Are you talking about a shock leader or a bite leader? How long is your leader? I don't see how a shock leader breaks when it's wrapped 5 or 6 times around your reel.


Shock Leader. It was 30#, and long enough that it had 5-8 turns around the spool when casting.

Here's my response to several of the questions: (sorry, I was away for a few days...)

"When you are clinching down the knot are you wetting it so that there is less friction as it tightens up?"

Yep, wetting it well, and tightening it slowly to avoid to much friction heat.

"What size weight are you using? General rule is 1oz for every 10lbs of rated weight in your shock."

Using a 2 oz jig, should have been plenty strong for that...

"The leader was on the spool and it snapped on the cast? "

The leader was about 5-8 turns on the spool of the spinning reel, and when I cast the knot broke somewhere between the first and third guides; there was about 1/8" of mono shock leader left, and the knot was intact.


"If your knots too big it will catch bad! I had a rod that had knock off guides and the knot would catch in the support of the guide "

That's why I was using the albright, or perhaps more correctly the Alberto's knot; I had used a uni to uni and the knot was fussier about getting through the guides... Should note that the rod is a collapsible travel rod, and the guides are small in comparison to most spinning surf rods... could be a factor.

"OK, I'm convinced. Just pop tested the albright I just tied on 50# to 15#. Snapped easy. retied with the uni uni and couldn't bust it."

Where did it bust? In the knot or in the line?


Thanks for all the wisdom shared...


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## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2006)

Sounds like a long tag on the knot caught on a guide


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

surfmom said:


> this is what I use and its very strong, never had a problem so far but wish I knew the name of the knot he uses with the surgeons. Its pretty simple, I just forget to hold the tag and running line together and pull the braid
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGZ3PUi9ZAM




Good strong knot but why would you want the big fat end going through the guides first??? Kinda sets up for guide disaster when casting heavy weights...

Maybe some of us just think in Drum terms. For what you describe, 2oz-3oz and pluggin the Uni to Uni is a great knot...

This is what I have been using for ever. Never had a fail, may break above the Bimini or get bit off below but never a break failure. Notice the small end goes out first and no tags to catch.


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## Jersey Hunter (Jul 26, 2009)

You might want to try this one 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YsH1gJJRLw


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

yep that's it....


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## Juan_EZ (Apr 10, 2006)

what kind of leader were you using??? if you are using FlouroCarbon, remember flouro has less stretch than mono so i believe that Flouro is inadequate for shock material. i stick to mono leader of all colors and use a simple albright special.


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## Tristan (Jun 22, 2006)

Juan_EZ said:


> what kind of leader were you using??? if you are using FlouroCarbon, remember flouro has less stretch than mono so i believe that Flouro is inadequate for shock material. i stick to mono leader of all colors and use a simple albright special.


Mono, 30 lb.


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## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

You can use braid for shock leaders. It's not as much stretch as it is momentum


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## NcRon (Dec 15, 2007)

I still Lean towards the Slim beauty knot,its my favorite to date so far.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

NC KingFisher said:


> You can use braid for shock leaders. It's not as much stretch as it is momentum


You could but why would you???


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## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

AbuMike said:


> You could but why would you???


Because 200lb+ braid makes a great shockleader when your sharkin, especially on the pier when it tries to play pylon pinball


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## Don B (Jul 28, 2001)

surfmom said:


> this is what I use and its very strong, never had a problem so far but wish I knew the name of the knot he uses with the surgeons. Its pretty simple, I just forget to hold the tag and running line together and pull the braid
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGZ3PUi9ZAM


If memory serves correct, it's a Reverse Albright.

The surgeons knot is not required.


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## cooper138 (Aug 8, 2012)

AbuMike said:


> Good strong knot but why would you want the big fat end going through the guides first??? Kinda sets up for guide disaster when casting heavy weights...
> 
> Maybe some of us just think in Drum terms. For what you describe, 2oz-3oz and pluggin the Uni to Uni is a great knot...
> 
> This is what I have been using for ever. Never had a fail, may break above the Bimini or get bit off below but never a break failure. Notice the small end goes out first and no tags to catch.


Can't be positive from the pic but that's a slim right? Starting mixing that in with nail/uni from time to time. Really like it so far. If it isn't a slim what is it?


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Bimini to a Slim Beauty...


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## js1172 (Jun 5, 2012)

is the bimini to the sb, that much stronger than the sb itself?
js


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## cooper138 (Aug 8, 2012)

AbuMike said:


> Bimini to a Slim Beauty...


Thank you that's what I thought. Love that setup. I still put a Bimini on out of habit but since tying a slim doubles the line to begin with do you still always use a Bimini?


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## cooper138 (Aug 8, 2012)

Sorry just saw that js already asked that. Gotta read before I type sometimes


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## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> OK,
> 
> Stayed up all night working on and testing knots. Can tie the first part of the simple beauty but I don't like the second part. Can tie the small diameter part of the uni-uni no problem.
> 
> ...


Real life tested this knot on this spunky little blacktip. For lack of another name, I'll refer to it as a Slim Duncan. I'd love to see it tested against some other knots by someone who knows how.


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## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

Haha that sharks still got milk on its mouth. Run him back out for bait!


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Don B said:


> If memory serves correct, it's a Reverse Albright.
> 
> The surgeons knot is not required.


 It is what I call a "brystol knot".. A surgeons to a brystol has nothing on a bimini to a no-name from tying the two together against each other the bimini to no-name will break it every time... Will work and if you are comfortable with it,tie it.. 



[email protected] said:


> Real life tested this knot on this spunky little blacktip. For lack of another name, I'll refer to it as a Slim Duncan. I'd love to see it tested against some other knots by someone who knows how.


 It's a slim beauty with a uni instead of clinch or half blood.. Look in the fishing bible forum you will find many knots tested and their strength in one of the threads there...


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## gilly21 (Feb 15, 2006)

AbuMike said:


>


This is my go to for about 7 years now. I tried the Alberto, the albright, the xxxxxxx, and everything in between. But I have landed everything from 10-12' Tiger sharks to drum. I put a lot of heat on fish and bring them in as green as possible. I like to release my fish with fight still left in them. This knot has NEVER failed. I would love to see someone test this agains anything or any other knot! Figure out how to tie a bimini then any other knot you tie that to will be better. Tie it to a slim beauty and you wont loose a fish to you knot.


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## Tristan (Jun 22, 2006)

OK, so what's your favorite brand of mono for shock leaders?


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## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

It doesn't really matter to me, I use either BBG for 80 and under, grandslam for 100lb+


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## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2006)

Tristan said:


> OK, so what's your favorite brand of mono for shock leaders?


I don't think it really matters much. The cheap stuff I use is ten years old. I still like it because It soaks water after a while and gets soft


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## gilly21 (Feb 15, 2006)

Tristan said:


> OK, so what's your favorite brand of mono for shock leaders?


Stren Stamina but cant find it anymore. Going to try some others thats why I tried the Andy Ghost. Andy Pink is good stuff. BBG is too soft for me. Going to try triple fish and Quatro.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

gilly21 said:


> This is my go to for about 7 years now. I tried the Alberto, the albright, the xxxxxxx, and everything in between. But I have landed everything from 10-12' Tiger sharks to drum. I put a lot of heat on fish and bring them in as green as possible. I like to release my fish with fight still left in them. This knot has NEVER failed. I would love to see someone test this agains anything or any other knot! Figure out how to tie a bimini then any other knot you tie that to will be better. Tie it to a slim beauty and you wont loose a fish to you knot.


 Gilly,read that thread on Fishing Bible forum... Check out what nail-uni test out at with 17lb suffix to 50lb shock.... I think you will be impressed..


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