# Zziplex 427 SU - Too Stiff?



## lrs

I am getting back into casting. I had shoulder surgery in January, followed by rest, then physical therapy. My shoulder is healing pretty good.
My main rod is a Zziplex 427 SU. Sometimes I wonder if it is just a little too stifff, but I don't really know if it is or not. I was practicing yesterday with a t-ball which I like because it weighs about 142gm and it floats. I was casting at a buoy 150 yards away measured with a laser range finder. My casts were right in the neighborhood of 150 to 160 yards. 
I can not tell you if I am loading this rod well or not.
But I was curious about trying a rod that is not quite as stiff.
I would like to hear from others who use this rod.
In addition, what would be a good rod to try that is not quite as stiff?


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## jcallaham

I think a t-ball going that far is a good cast,so you must be loading the rod okay.


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## kingfish

I don't know where you are but I have a Full Tourney ZZiplex. That rod has set many records, of course not by me, if you want to trade off for a couple of months, let me know. I'm thinking about ground casting and the stiffer rods are suited to that style I am told. The full tourney will bend and if you can lock it up it sends the lead


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## lrs

I'm about 40 miles north of Houston.


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## Tommy

Leslie,

The Zziplex M427SU is a very, very powerful tournament casting rod. It compares with the Century TTR and a couple of others at the top of the power range. 

Many casters (I am not refering specifically to you) believe that they must have the stiffest and most powerful rod out there to be competetive. The truth is, a rod too stiff for the caster will cost distance and potentially cause injury. For years I cast a Zzipplex Full Tournament (like the one Kingfish refers to) and used it quite effectively to break the USA record back in 04 or 05. Like most casters, i believed stiffer and more powerful was the ticket and went on to rods like the TTR and 427SU. The stiff rods worked for me, but it took endless hours of practice to get the timing down pat.

The real key here is finding what works best for you. Be careful with the super stiff rods as you rehab that shoulder .

Tommy


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## lrs

I appreciate the well wish. 
Intuitively, I was dwelling on the possibility that a rod too stiff could cost distance. However the increased potential for injury had not crossed my mind.
If I wanted to step down some on the stiffness, could you provide some suggestions for a good tournament rod. I will also check into the Zziplex Full Tournament.

Thanks,
Leslie


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## Tommy

Rods less stiff....

Zziplex's

Standard M427 ( the 427 SU is a "Stepped Up" version, hence SU)
FT (full tournament)
Dymic LT 14
Evo
Primo Syncro (oldie but goodie)
HST (high speed tip)
SST (super speed tip)
XTR (older parabolic action great rod if you can find one)

I'm sure there are others, I just cannot remember them all.

Tommy


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## Tommy

Of course you could work with your CPS 13' 6-10 until the shoulder is strong.....


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## lrs

Tommy said:


> Of course you could work with your CPS 13' 6-10 until the shoulder is strong.....


Funny you mentioned that. I was just giving it some thought. Seriously.
It's been a couple of years since I made that purchase. 
You have have a good memory.
By the way, I love that rod.
I have periodically suggested that rod to people on this forum.
I will give it a try in the morning.
I have mounted the reel close to the butt before and it worked just fine.

Leslie


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## Tommy

It may actually be the perfect rod for you right now. Powerful enough to boom long casts but forgiving enough to ease the shoulder stress.

Tommy


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## lrs

I have been using the CCP 6-10 for a couple of weeks. It can boom out a cast and my shoulder is giving me no problems.
I don't have any measured casts, but I think it is getting out to 600 feet or so.
Still, it's not a tournament rod. I think I'd like to get one, I think the 427SU is a bit too stiff. 

You mentioned the Zziplex XTR, parabolic action. Great if you can find one.
Sounds like you like this one.
I'm going to look into this, and check out the others you mentioned as well.
Are any of the CCP blanks designed for tournament casting?


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## Tommy

The CPS rods are quite tourney capable. I have not designed and developed a full out tourney rod because there is just not a high demand. I have considered bringing in a "Tourney Butt" that would work with the 6-10 and 8-12 tips. With a beefed up butt and 8-12" longer I think it could be quite competetive... 

The XTR (experimental tournament rod) zziplex was a favorite on the casting courts worldwide 10 years ago. Powerful, (not 427 SU powerful) and a nice parabolic action made for a great combination. If memory serves, it was a favorite of Peter Thain for years.

I may know where one is......

Tommy


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## castingsfun

If you build it they will come.

Factory built fishing rod and full blown ground cast and I can't even come close
to hurting the 6-10oz.

Tourney but, reducer and you should be at around 15'

What happened to the Sakuma line? It seemed that they changed there diameter lines.


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## lrs

Depending on how things work out at my job, I just might get to try this CCP at a tournament in Kingsville. Right now, it's about a coin toss, but I am hoping I can make it.

I was looking to see what is on the market. Century makes a model, E1000. It's almost 15ft long and costs close to $900...
I''m not sure how stiff it is but at close to 15ft, that is a whole lot of rod.


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## Tommy

Sakuma is still alive and kicking.... and in stock,



Diameters are spot on.

Tommy



castingsfun said:


> If you build it they will come.
> 
> Factory built fishing rod and full blown ground cast and I can't even come close
> to hurting the 6-10oz.
> 
> Tourney but, reducer and you should be at around 15'
> 
> What happened to the Sakuma line? It seemed that they changed there diameter lines.


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## Tommy

I've got an E1000, won it in Wales back in 98. Nice rod.

A little stiffer tip and a softer butt than the TTR. Still plenty of power.

Tommy



lrs said:


> Depending on how things work out at my job, I just might get to try this CCP at a tournament in Kingsville. Right now, it's about a coin toss, but I am hoping I can make it.
> 
> I was looking to see what is on the market. Century makes a model, E1000. It's almost 15ft long and costs close to $900...
> I''m not sure how stiff it is but at close to 15ft, that is a whole lot of rod.


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## Tommy

typed 98, meant 08... 



Tommy said:


> I've got an E1000, won it in Wales back in 98. Nice rod.
> 
> A little stiffer tip and a softer butt than the TTR. Still plenty of power.
> 
> Tommy


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## Jeremy Schrader

The E1000 is a very powerfull rod and one that can deliver exceptional distances just don't try and rush with her and she will sing : - )


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## lrs

Jeremy, my name is Leslie. I am about to be the owner of an E1000. I am actually buying the very rod Tommy just mentioned. I'm a little nostalgic but to me that rod is a piece of history. But I'm not getting it just to hang on a wall. You are quite familiar with this model I believe. I watched your video on YouTube. Seems like to me from watching the video the tip is a little stiff but the midsection has some flex to it. Would that be correct?


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## Jeremy Schrader

Leslie , 

The rod is actually quite powerfully throught its full length , though you are correct in that it has a fast action tip that will load up very quickly amd transfer the bend through into the butt when cast with the reel down low and at its full length. The problem arises in that she will recover just as quickly and if you not planted properly she will really bite . 
If however you take your time winding her up she will really load the butt section and feel sweet but as mentioned when she unloads it is very fastso make sure that you are well balanced and have your fron foot planted and weight set up for the recoil. 
I love mine and would be using it more other tha the Excalibur is a beefed up version with an overall lighter weight. Though she is also much stiffer in the butt section as compared to the E1000. 

Still great rod .

http://youtu.be/kl646lfOIzo


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## lrs

I get the impression the previously mentioned XTR have similar characteristics to the e1000. Would this be true,


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## Jeremy Schrader

There are quite a few Zziplex's with the XTR designation on them , I have two one being the XTR 50/50 and the other being the XTR Sport . Neither of these rods are like the E1000 but both are capable of big distances in the right hands. 

The XTR 50/50 has a slimmer butt section ( 25 mm) and is therefore similar to the E1000's diameter, whilst the XTR Sport has the older/ thicker diameter butt section which is closer to the TTR/WR300 butt sections. 

Both of my XTR's are also only 13'8" long whilst my E1000 is over 14'. 

Hope that helps.


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## Tommy

Leslie,

The E1000 is going to have a much faster recovery and an overall crisper feel vs the older and heavier XTR. Don't get me wrong, the XTR (talking the bigger heavier version, not the 50/50) is a very powerful rod and has been used to great effect by casters such as Peter Thain to hit HUGE casts. It really boils down to working with a rod to find out if it best suits you and your casting style. 

Tommy


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## lrs

I'm looking forward to the e1000 though I may hold off on using it till my shoulder is ready. I was a little sore after making a few casts with the ccp on Saturday. Though not the least bit relevant, the e1000 just looks cool. I don't mind hanging it in my office a couple of months. Maybe I'll put a Penn Senator on it.


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