# off the off set circles



## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

So I read the reports about the off set circle hook issues. I had noticed some of the problems. So I put my off set hooks in a vice, and it was easy to hand bend the off set out.
Wondering if anyone saw a problem this mnight cause. It would seem to have taken the off set issue out of the hook.


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

Threre reall isn't any problem with the off set hooks. JMO. It's just like ANY other hook out there. Circles, offset or inline work best with bait runner type reels. I wouldn't bend out the offset as you might weaken the hook. They are designed to be the way they are. I use BOTH across the board fron flounder to shark. Do I miss some times? Sure do. But that's why they call it fishin,


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## tjbjornsen (Oct 31, 2009)

I was wondering about this issue as well.
When snelling hooks for smaller rigs I like a down-turned eye, but most of the smaller khale have an in-line eye.
I've been taking them and holding them with pliers and bending the eye back gently.
I'm sure there is some compromise to the integrity of the metal, but in my application the bearing load is on the shank of the hook, not the eye, gripped by the snell.
I know that the sharpies say that when snelling hooks you don't even need to go through the eye, but I just feel more secure with the line going through the eye.
And I am guessing that the species I am targeting with these hooks are unlikely to take advantage of any weakness I have created by bending that hook.


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## sunburntspike (Oct 4, 2010)

like tj i too will bend some of the straight eyed circles to better set the snell in line with the running line ,i have a small butane torch that works very well in the wind if needed,tho i prefer to pre bend them when i buy them,also using a torch.i don't take the bend out of the offset circles,feeling they're made that way so use 'em that way,and they work fine,just remember DON'T set the hook like bill dance,a nice easy sweeping motion when the fish gets tight will do the trick or even no motion will put a circle,offset or in line, right in the corner of the mouth.IMHO THE HOOK SET IS THE NO.1 REASON CIRCLES GET A BAD RAP,user error accounts for a majority of this problem,hard to teach an old dog ,LOL


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## SmoothLures (Feb 13, 2008)

If you're not near your rod and he can swallow the bait and hook, he will do so and you'll gut hook him. Close a plastic bag around an inline circle hook and pull. It doesn't out. It catches. The hook doesn't matter much unless you're 50 yards up the beach talking to people. I don't remeber the last time I gut hooked a saltwater fish with J hooks. There are loads of drum guys that use J hooks and gut hook less than the circle hook guys. Just my .02.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

I don't think you have to worry much about a Drum swallowing a hook circle or J on a 1/2" FF Rig with an 8-12oz weight attached. yes they will often take the weight in their mouth with the bait but never seen one swallow it. Even with a J hook if the fish picks up the bait and swims away and not straight to you the hook will migrate to the corner of the jaw hence the reason I like my FF Rigs very, very short.


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

thanks for the ideas and replies.


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## wdbrand (May 24, 2007)

The day I have to resort to fishin with a gammy-whammy hook that ain't a J hook, I'll jest give my stuff away.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

RuddeDogg said:


> Threre reall isn't any problem with the off set hooks. JMO. It's just like ANY other hook out there. Circles, offset or inline work best with bait runner type reels. I wouldn't bend out the offset as you might weaken the hook. They are designed to be the way they are. I use BOTH across the board fron flounder to shark. Do I miss some times? Sure do. But that's why they call it fishin,


 *I'm not making this post to stir the pot or get under your skin,just stating what I have experienced with offset circle-gami...*

RuddeDogg,maybe it's just me,but I have found PLENTY WRONG WITH THEM,from loosing fish halfway through the battle with hook pulling to guthooking,in my view they are nothing more than an inferior j hook...... The one year experiment I did with gami circles or "not so circles" in my view taught me more than I wanted to know about offset circles.. In close to 40yrs of catching big drum I've guthooked two with j's,in ONE YEAR of using gami "so called circles" I guthooked two,lost more than I care to tell about in the middle of the fight that year as well... All jmho,but it is from what I have experienced...


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

Drumdum said:


> *I'm not making this post to stir the pot or get under your skin,just stating what I have experienced with offset circle-gami...*
> 
> RuddeDogg,maybe it's just me,but I have found PLENTY WRONG WITH THEM,from loosing fish halfway through the battle with hook pulling to guthooking,in my view they are nothing more than an inferior j hook...... The one year experiment I did with gami circles or "not so circles" in my view taught me more than I wanted to know about offset circles.. In close to 40yrs of catching big drum I've guthooked two with j's,in ONE YEAR of using gami "so called circles" I guthooked two,lost more than I care to tell about in the middle of the fight that year as well... All jmho,but it is from what I have experienced...


I haven't had gut hooks but I hve lost a couple of stripers who turned parallel to the beach.

Drumdum what is your opinion on bending the off set out. It's quite easy to do so.


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## robc22 (Oct 20, 2009)

surffshr said:


> I haven't had gut hooks but I hve lost a couple of stripers who turned parallel to the beach.Drumdum what is your opinion on bending the off set out. It's quite easy to do so.


I think stripers are much harder to catch on circles than drum......but then I have never caught a drum..........


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

Drumdum said:


> *I'm not making this post to stir the pot or get under your skin,just stating what I have experienced with offset circle-gami...*
> 
> RuddeDogg,maybe it's just me,but I have found PLENTY WRONG WITH THEM,from loosing fish halfway through the battle with hook pulling to guthooking,in my view they are nothing more than an inferior j hook...... The one year experiment I did with gami circles or "not so circles" in my view taught me more than I wanted to know about offset circles.. In close to 40yrs of catching big drum I've guthooked two with j's,in ONE YEAR of using gami "so called circles" I guthooked two,lost more than I care to tell about in the middle of the fight that year as well... All jmho,but it is from what I have experienced...



I understand completely. I have have had similar experiences with J hooks. Now I have NEVER caught a red drum but have caught plenty of striper and that's what I base my opinions on. Like anything else in this sport we love, we go with what works BEST for us.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

surffshr said:


> I haven't had gut hooks but I hve lost a couple of stripers who turned parallel to the beach.
> 
> Drumdum what is your opinion on bending the off set out. It's quite easy to do so.


 I have done it in a pinch,not sure if it damages the hook or not,but I'd rather have it inline than offset.. After saying all that,why not pick up some vmcs,mustads,eagleclaws,or owners,there are several good hooks on the market that are good circles and not offset... jmo 



robc22 said:


> I think stripers are much harder to catch on circles than drum......but then I have never caught a drum..........


 Jmo (again  ),but stripers are one of the fish that I use circles on when bottomfishing for them,and have complete confidence,because they have worked flawlessly on stripers... Inlines that is....



RuddeDogg said:


> I understand completely. I have have had similar experiences with J hooks. Now I have NEVER caught a red drum but have caught plenty of striper and that's what I base my opinions on. Like anything else in this sport we love, we go with what works BEST for us.


 Haven't caught as many stripers as drum,but trust the inlines more than the offsets,but as you said,use what works best for ya...


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## luckyOC (Apr 3, 2010)

lots of interresting info on this thread....

You name the circle, I have tried it... some of my experiences with both drum (big - over 40") and larger stripers...

Favorite all around circle hokk, gami bigeye 9/0.
second, mustad 10/0 39951NP-BN

both of these are inline circles, no need to bend
big eye on the left


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## robc22 (Oct 20, 2009)

Good stuff luckyoc.....I will try both those hooks next year......Is that the mustard hook on the right?..........


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

robc22 said:


> Good stuff luckyoc.....I will try both those hooks next year......Is that the mustard hook on the right?..........


 Mustad on left.. I really like the gami bigeye,the one on the right,caught a few stripers on that.. Mustad makes a black demon hook that everyone likes as well..


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## luckyOC (Apr 3, 2010)

big eye is on the left (silver one) http://www.shop.gamakatsu.com/scrip...10_12&CONFIG001=Tin&CONFIG003=3&CONFIG002=9/0
mustad is on the right (black one) http://www.mustad.no/productcatalog/na/product.php?id=52

both hooks are pretty hard to find, and the big eye's are expensive... but they work, don't loose as many fish, and last.... I just cry when I loose one


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## tjbjornsen (Oct 31, 2009)

I have a question that may or may not be related to this discussion.
In looking at the snells on both of those hooks in the picture above, the line is threaded out the front of the eye.
When I have snelled circle hooks, and other hooks for that matter, I snell them with the line leaving out the back of the eye.
Reason being;
If you were to hold either of those hooks lightly between your thumb and finger, and applied tension to the line, the point of the hook rotates outward, away from the shank.
When I thread the line out the back of the eye, and do the same thing, the point of the hook rotates inward, towards the direction of the shank.
Imagining the hook in a fishes mouth, I would think that you would want the business end of the hook rotating inward, not outward.
What am I missing?


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## luckyOC (Apr 3, 2010)

tjb, good question... honestly I'm not a 100% sure which way is best... i have always tied mine like the above, or not put the line in the eye at all.

I think the way in the picture, the line pulls on the hook, to promote grabbing the jaw on the way out... you don't want any other position on the hook, besides in the jaw.


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## Jersey Hunter (Jul 26, 2009)

tjbjornsen said:


> I have a question that may or may not be related to this discussion.
> In looking at the snells on both of those hooks in the picture above, the line is threaded out the front of the eye.
> When I have snelled circle hooks, and other hooks for that matter, I snell them with the line leaving out the back of the eye.
> Reason being;
> ...


Thats a great question.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

luckyOC said:


> big eye is on the left (silver one) http://www.shop.gamakatsu.com/scrip...10_12&CONFIG001=Tin&CONFIG003=3&CONFIG002=9/0
> mustad is on the right (black one) http://www.mustad.no/productcatalog/na/product.php?id=52
> 
> both hooks are pretty hard to find, and the big eye's are expensive... but they work, don't loose as many fish, and last.... I just cry when I loose one


 Dern,one on left is a dead ringer for the ole silver colored mustads that have been around for years,one on right looks like the straight eye inline gami I've used in the past.. Man chit changes quick... 

Imo,the way you rigged them should in theory turn the hook quicker... I've always just tied it straight to the eye with a nailknot like the hook is designed... Some folks will crimp a loop through the eye so the hook swings freely....


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## jlentz (Sep 11, 2005)

tjbjornsen said:


> I have a question that may or may not be related to this discussion.
> In looking at the snells on both of those hooks in the picture above, the line is threaded out the front of the eye.
> When I have snelled circle hooks, and other hooks for that matter, I snell them with the line leaving out the back of the eye.
> Reason being;
> ...


The way the hook is snelled in LockyOC's picture is correct. If the line comes out the back side of the hook it will not turn the hook correctly to hook the fish. It can pull it and allow the point to slide out of the fishes mouth. If you picture a line coming out of the hook on the opposite side you will see that it can pull the hook out without allowing the point to make contact. This was a big discussion years ago when billfish tournament started requiring circle hooks only for live or dead bait. People tried all different ways and the best hook up ratio occurred with the snelled line coming out of the hook eye on the same side as the point.

John


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## luckyOC (Apr 3, 2010)

Drumdum said:


> Dern,one on left is a dead ringer for the ole silver colored mustads that have been around for years,one on right looks like the straight eye inline gami I've used in the past..


Drum, if you had a big eye in your hand vs a durain mustad, you could tell the difference, especially in the point / barb area


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## razor78016 (Dec 24, 2010)

I always use offset circles that bend myself. Never had an issue with them.

Ray.


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## SNDFLEE (Sep 8, 2010)

I got fooled on the hook types as well? I have never seen a galv. gammy? All of the gammy's i have are black and the mustads galv.? 
eagleclaw makes a nice circle with a wide gap in line and nice and sharp out of the pack!


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

luckyOC said:


> Drum, if you had a big eye in your hand vs a durain mustad, you could tell the difference, especially in the point / barb area


 Bought hooks several times at Frank and Fran's in Avon NC.. Everytime I've bought gamis with straighteye and colored like the pic,they also seem to have a thicker shank in the hook than the regular gamis.. This hook looks very similar to the one in you picture,although after a second look the point does seem a little different.. Either way,both look to be good hooks to me.. 

For some reason,j's just don't seem to do as good a job not guthooking with pups( could be I'm catching on flats with not much current and moving water involved ),so went to circles on them about 10 or more years ago.. Eagle claw is a great hook in the 4/0 size,and it works well with pups in slot.. Although,when they go to the bigger sizes,5/0+ have seen several folks break the point off the hook.. After seeing this I just stick to the smaller size..On the other side of it, I've heard some folks on w Pamlico Sound (where circles are manditory) that catch big drum rave about the eagle claws.. Have been using vmc's with the straight eye for a couple of years now,and have had good luck with those..


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## FishinMortician (Jun 19, 2007)

If your rod indicates a bite but you don't get the fish, that's considered a miss. If you are missing half the time, you should consider changing something. When your rod indicates a bite, you should get the fish about 90% of the time or better.

Secretly SCUBA out and replace an accomplished fisherman's hooks without his knowledge. Maybe just tie them differently, or bend the eyes for him, or shorten his leader for him. Very soon he will start missing fish and become suspicious. He will then inspect his rig and easily determine the problem. The fact is that he uses what works for him-period. He may recommend things to you, and they may or may not work for you. That is fishing.

I have modified circles by bending the eyes outwards and inwards, snelling them up and out and down and in. There are advantages and disadvantages. The fish will help you figure all that out. But there are ways to weaken the hook, too. Test your little deal by inserting the hook through something that allows the point of contact to be deep into the bend, as if a big fish was on, and then pull hard.

I have had 2/0 hooks open right up when the eye is bent the wrong way, or the line goes through the wrong way. If your hook opens due to the way you attached it to the line, remember what you did and do it another way. Losing nice fish right at your feet is horrible.

The idea here is to have the leader pull the baited hook back out of the fish's mouth in a fashion that provides a positive stick, AND then to have the hook remain in place until you remove it. You can modify and tie yourself into a bad rig or a good rig. Find what works best for you, and change small things, and only change one at a time so you can keep track. Soon the fish will tell you what works best for you and what works badly. Learning both is helpful, believe me.

If you think an offset hook is not for you.....here is a true circle hook ( no offset ) that I like. It is the- Mustad C71S SS. It is a long shank stainless steel hook. Very durable and long lasting, but some need sharpened right out of the box. Get ONE box and see if you like them. They work great for bluefish and redfish and such- but that is just me remember. Also, you don't have to worry about a fish with teeth ruining your brand new fluro rig. I use 2/0 and 5/0 sizes. The 2/0 get baited with fleas, crab sections, clams, and shrimp. The 5/0 gets cut bait and half crabs.

Maybe a UNI knot would work well with this hook. LOL- never know.


BTW- I also like the BassPro Shop "wide gap circle hooks" in 2/0 size, but only for pompanyo, on an Earl Brinn rig, and only when I bend the eyes inward and snell them with four inch long fluorocarbon snoods.


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