# Protection at night....



## deepsessions (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi guys,

After a few years of not fishing at night because of a couple of incidents, rowdy drunks and local gangs, I would like to give it another try.
How do you guys protect yourselves while fishing at night?

Things that we would probably already have with us are knives for bait cutting, and gaffs.

Maybe some pepper spray would help and fishing with a group (safety in numbers).

What do you think guys....


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## RW_20 (Oct 16, 2007)

Sounds like you need to move. Hell where I fish the only gang of rowdy drunks are use old farts:beer::fishing::beer:


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## Jackalopehunter (Mar 17, 2009)

i probably would fish in a group, at least 3 total, but thats going to the old adage 2 is 1 and 1 is none. another saying goes never bring a knife to a gunfight(sorry bad pun, but fitting, too many youngins packin heat illegaly) but something to keep in mind, based on real life experiance, 99.9% of the time you pop someone with pepperspray, you get hit with it yourself. not sayin to not have it, just keep it in mind.


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## Jesse Lockowitz (Feb 13, 2006)




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## Gregg Seaford (Feb 23, 2009)

Jesse sweet post...........


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

What my favorite responce is "My parole officer told me if I shoot one more person I would be going back to jail AGAIN"


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## carbine100 (Aug 2, 2004)

Don't want to mess with me and my fishing buddies, Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson.


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## SmoothLures (Feb 13, 2008)

In SC you can carry a firearm to, from, and during from hunting and fishing trips.


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## drawinout (May 11, 2008)

Had a long reply, telling some of my own experiences, but I've decided to keep it short and sweet like everybody else....



************************************************************** CARRY A PISTOL **********************************************************


A tazer might work too. I have one, but I never carry it. My tazer is one of those where you have to get right up on somebody to hit them with it. I usually just hit them in the head with my purse......


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

I spent years fishing in some of the roughest parts of Baltimore and can guarantee you that you do not want to engage with bad guys. I'm not talking about piers full of drunks and idiots. I'm talking about genuinely dangerous places with dangerous people. But it was fine because I stayed low-key and friendly. I was a guy there to fish and mind his own business.

Seriously, Dirty Harry fantasies will land you in hot water. Either get comfortable with the locals and make a few friends or stop fishing there.


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## Jesse Lockowitz (Feb 13, 2006)

drawinout said:


> Had a long reply, telling some of my own experiences, but I've decided to keep it short and sweet like everybody else....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



my grandpa is 75, and is really into photography so he is always walking through nature trails with his camera, usually alone.

well he started carrying a stun gun a while back. well someone was walking the trail, got to talkin with him for a minute, and basically tried to grab is 2000 camera setup and lense bag, and make a run, well, he's 75 so he cant put much of a tussle up, and isnt going to, so he stun gunned his ass and the sucker fell right to the ground. he got to his car and called the police.

sad part, is this use to be a really great little park. and very close to home..



Jesse


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## drawinout (May 11, 2008)

sand flea said:


> I spent years fishing in some of the roughest parts of Baltimore and can guarantee you that you do not want to engage with bad guys. I'm not talking about piers full of drunks and idiots. I'm talking about genuinely dangerous places with dangerous people. But I was fine because I stayed low-key and friendly.
> 
> Seriously, Dirty Harry fantasies will land you in hot water. Either get comfortable with the locals and make a few friends or stop fishing there.



Good advice. I don't personally carry a pistol....... I've got a little 38 S&W snubnose that would be perfect for that, but she stays at home... I can see how mixing pistols and pier fishing could be a bad idea.....:fishing:


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## VBpierkingmac (Feb 18, 2009)

heres a ? for some of yall because I'm about to turn 21 and get my carry permit and was wondering this. In Virginia you are not allowed to carry a concealed weapon (pistol) into any place that serves alcohol for consumption on the premisis. Now does that mean piers that you can go into a resturant and buy a beer and drink on the pier? I would imagine that it would fall into that catogory but I have seen atleast one person carry a concealed weapon onto the pier. Granted if its concealed then no one should really know about it right? But I deffinatly dont want to leave my gun in the truck being as how Ive had my trucks radio antenna stolen off it in the parking lot. Anyways just getting some thoughts on it.


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## Al Kai (Jan 8, 2007)

Fish in groups and always carry a cellphone. A few of us also have CCW permits and are armed. We never had a problem.

If by yourself, fish around other fishermen. Introduce yourself to them and get to know them. Around here we band together and have known each other for a long time. When they leave you leave as well. A single fisherman all alone at night makes himself or herself a target in rough areas.


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## treydunn48 (Apr 9, 2008)

I personally learned how to knife fight from a friend of mine, but I do carry pepper spray a hard plastic knuckles set:redface: (basicly plastic brass knuckles with blunt points) and a assisted knife all the time. Other than that im 6'4 278lbs and am still growing starting on the varsity football team


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## Danman (Dec 13, 2007)

Sandflea says it all imho....


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## jimmy z (Nov 5, 2006)

I would find another spot to fish. Fishing at night, uneasy, constantly checking over your shoulder is no way to fish. I believe this thing we do, is a way to relax, to relieve the stress, that we have. Not gain more, or to get a hassle. 
If fishing at night is gonna be a problem, don't. If you are going to put yourself in harm's way, don't do it. 
It's sad, but one has to use good sense.


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## OBX Jay (Sep 3, 2007)

jimmy z said:


> I would find another spot to fish. Fishing at night, uneasy, constantly checking over your shoulder is no way to fish. I believe this thing we do, is a way to relax, to relieve the stress, that we have. Not gain more, or to get a hassle.
> If fishing at night is gonna be a problem, don't. If you are going to put yourself in harm's way, don't do it.
> It's sad, but one has to use good sense.


Well said jimmy, well said.


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## INDIO (Jul 10, 2002)

jimmy z said:


> I would find another spot to fish. Fishing at night, uneasy, constantly checking over your shoulder is no way to fish. I believe this thing we do, is a way to relax, to relieve the stress, that we have. Not gain more, or to get a hassle.
> If fishing at night is gonna be a problem, don't. If you are going to put yourself in harm's way, don't do it.
> It's sad, but one has to use good sense.


I'm with you on this one . too much water to have to deal with nonsense.


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## SmoothLures (Feb 13, 2008)

VBpierkingmac said:


> heres a ? for some of yall because I'm about to turn 21 and get my carry permit and was wondering this. In Virginia you are not allowed to carry a concealed weapon (pistol) into any place that serves alcohol for consumption on the premisis. Now does that mean piers that you can go into a resturant and buy a beer and drink on the pier? I would imagine that it would fall into that catogory but I have seen atleast one person carry a concealed weapon onto the pier. Granted if its concealed then no one should really know about it right? But I deffinatly dont want to leave my gun in the truck being as how Ive had my trucks radio antenna stolen off it in the parking lot. Anyways just getting some thoughts on it.


Ask the guy who gives the tests, not us.


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## Out Sick (May 27, 2006)

jimmy z said:


> I would find another spot to fish. Fishing at night, uneasy, constantly checking over your shoulder is no way to fish. I believe this thing we do, is a way to relax, to relieve the stress, that we have. Not gain more, or to get a hassle.
> If fishing at night is gonna be a problem, don't. If you are going to put yourself in harm's way, don't do it.
> It's sad, but one has to use good sense.


I think Sandflea and Jimmy have said it best. VB PIERKING, from my interpretation of the VA Concealed permit - you can carry anywhere other that federal buildings, banks, schools - unless you don't get out of the car, churches - - unless you have good reason (go figure on that one, but its on the books) and you can't go anywhere that serves alcohol. I take that as hanging out at the bar at the pier. Or drinking a beer with your weapon on you. Only a judge would make the call on that. But I believe you'd have a good argument if you weren't drinking. I carry a .45 subcompact w/tac light & laser when I feel the need, and I'm completely legal. But I don't go fishing to have to deal with knuckleheads, even though allot of times that unavoidable lol. But if I had your problem, I'd find another place to fish or just fish it early a.m. or at daylight only. And I wouldn't leave anything in my vehicle there either. Good luck.


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## kgpcr (Sep 17, 2008)

Be careful if you carry a gun. More people get shot with thier own gun that you can imagine. You MUST be able to pull the trigger. Its not a natural thing to kill some one. Dirty Harry is just a myth. After all the training the Marines could give me it was odd to pull the trigger the first time. Training kicked in and you took care of busines but it was not normal. That being said i carry a pistol often. At a boat landing late at night i pulled in and there were a group of punks there. They started to get bolder and bolder. My buddy who was in the Marines with me was with. As one of them asked him for his wallet he started to laugh. the kid took a swing at my buddy who promptly sprayed him and the group with a can of Bear Repelent. That sure took care of business. We both laughed our butts off as we loaded the boat and watched them in agony.


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## drawinout (May 11, 2008)

jimmy z said:


> I would find another spot to fish. Fishing at night, uneasy, constantly checking over your shoulder is no way to fish. I believe this thing we do, is a way to relax, to relieve the stress, that we have. Not gain more, or to get a hassle.
> If fishing at night is gonna be a problem, don't. If you are going to put yourself in harm's way, don't do it.
> It's sad, but one has to use good sense.


I agree.


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## deepsessions (Dec 30, 2008)

Thank you all for your advice and opinions.

Jimmy z like the others said I too agree on your post. Its probably better to not even fish at night again. 
I have a family now and now need to think of them first.

Not worth it....like was already said, fishing should be relaxing and a stree reliever....
Thanks guys......


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## Puppy Mullet (Dec 5, 2003)

Good post Sand Flea...


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## chriscustom (Jun 17, 2006)

*night spots*

If it aint safe dont do it.Find somewhere else to fish.


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

Like Flea siad, he is a guy who just wants to fish. Take some friends with ya, cell phone and pepper spray can't hurt. Don't engage the bad guys. If ya start to have a problem, pack up and go. If it gets bad, s**t and git. Bottom line is GEAR CAN BE REPLACED. Here in the Nazi State of New Jersey it's next to impossible to get a carry permit. Besides, ain't no fishin gear worth gettin shot over. or if ya can, like chris said find another spot to fish.


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## Fireline20 (Oct 2, 2007)

SmoothLures said:


> In SC you can carry a firearm to, from, and during from hunting and fishing trips.


Yep to the above and my solution has been a 1858 Remington Black Powder .44 cal Cap and Ball revolver (can you say Josse Wells or John Wesley Harding).

Costs about $200 from Cabela's and because it is considered an antique firearm, requires no permit or registration. Fits nicely in a small Flambeau cloth tackle bag along with extra balls,caps powder and always an extra loaded cylinder. I just place it next to my tackle box, if the ranger or game warden comes by, they are none to the wiser.

Accuracy wise with 25 grains of Pyrodex P powder, #10 Remington cap and .457 swagged ball you can put 6 shots in a 5" cirlce from 20 yards.

Trust me, you pull out this 8" barrel hog leg out of your tackle box and their won't be any fights, just some dudes backing up and saying "yes sir", "no sir" and "sorry sir".

Now if you want a more public display, get the leather holster made especially for the 1858 from Cabela's for $18.95 and wear it on you hip. Still legal here is SC, not sure about elsewhere.


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## dirtyhandslopez (Nov 17, 2006)

With Flea on this one. Been around a lot of dodgy places and never had trouble. No one really want's to steal gear from someone who's using it. From your house/back porch, that's another story.


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## Fireline20 (Oct 2, 2007)

dirtyhandslopez said:


> With Flea on this one. Been around a lot of dodgy places and never had trouble. No one really want's to steal gear from someone who's using it. From your house/back porch, that's another story.



True enough and basically that is what I have the 1858 Remmie for to protect my bedroom upstairs. 

Now most of my "stuff" is downstairs. and they can rumble through my jungle downstairs all they, "at least till the cops get there" but if they try to walk up the stairs, they won't make it to the top.

However, when fishing deserted beaches like Ft Fisher or parts of OBX where the number of people is few, a little extra "insurance" close at hand gives one some peace of mind, especially if the little lady and the kiddies are around


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## Amarie (Mar 19, 2009)

i love fishing alone at night do it all summer long and as a female i've learned a few tricks.
i dont talk to anyone that isn't fishing thats number 1! keep a second knife on me always, i will only fish in areas that are lit except choptank. just be aware of your surroundings. if it gets to creepy you need to leave. no reason staying if your uncomfortable.


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

too bad its basically impossible to get a carry license here in nyc.. 
but.. itd be a bad thing if we could too.
what a nice double edge sword. lol

i tend not to fish at night here in the city. especially in public places.


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## pierjunky (Dec 7, 2008)

Two things: First, Treydunn48- I dont know about virginia but here in florida you will get in more trouble for having and sort of brass (or plastic) knuckles than if you were actually carrying a firearm. Brass knuckles are ILLEGAL and firearms are not (with a cwp or coarse) so just be careful if you decide to carry those. 

Second, VBpierkingmac - I know in florida you are allowed to carry a concealed weapon in places that serve alcohol as long as your not sitting at the bar or your not drinking. Once again though, i dont know if this is true in other states. So you should be fine carrying on the pier.

Personally i feel that i shouldnt have to move to a different fishing location if im not doing anything wrong where i am. I dont go looking for trouble but if trouble fines me than thats the bad guys problem. If your minding your own business that you should be left alone and have the right to defend yourself with whatever force necesarry. I usually pier fish on the east coast of florida almost always at night. Now ive never had any major problems but i do carry my taurus .38 snubby in my bag with me, along with my fillet and bait knives. Now, i would NEVER flash my gun or point it at someone unless my life was threatened and i knew that i could pull the trigger. This goes back to the old saying " better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it". Violence is not the answer but it is the solution if someone ruins my fishing trip. Thanks everyone for letting me rant! Everyone be safe and tight lines!!


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## treydunn48 (Apr 9, 2008)

Thanks for the concern pierjunky ill remember not to carry it wen i go down there but i checked with the va blu boys and they said it was okay just excercise caution if i do use it for lawsuit reasons but i brought it for my mom and it was buy one get something of equal value so i just got another one but i prefer mano y mano nothin else but when out# i have a home defense size of mace from bps and where i live that doesnt happen its just where i fish lol.


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## treydunn48 (Apr 9, 2008)

pierjunky said:


> Violence is not the answer but it is the solution if someone ruins my fishing trip.


I love this line


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## ledweightII (Apr 4, 2008)

i'd rather fish than fight:fishing:....BUT the one weapon that i carry no one has mentioned and probably is the best ive got..that is my rod and whatever rig i got attatched on the end of it...Whoa, there...didnt mean to swing it that way..oops, got a snag...better real it in to see what i gots. watch that weight there snelli, youre gonna hurt somebody wit that thing. Dang, this confinded braid just wont break without a good tug. rip. I just, just cannot get this 'ugly stick' to break, wow, its got such good action and makes such a nice whippin' noise everytime i swing it. i bet if i do this i might be able to crack this stick. just one more time, i know it will break, gosh darn it i know if.... Sorry sirs, my medication has me twitching a little more than usual....just been o.k.'ed by the doc.'s..and released..they say i'm o.k. but i'm not so sure...
Seriously, would you wanna fool with a crazy one or a mean one? neither of course...i've found that more than two is two too many for me...AND its always the smallest one who keeps persisting trouble AND then there is the one you never see that knocks you down. been there and aint goin' back.. oh, one sure fire way to know trouble is coming if you can SEE it coming. if someone has brought a camera phone out in the background...drop yo' chit and run...i aint bein' put up on no website with the small caption 'idiot tries to catch and release thuggies gets fed to the fishes'..... and ive already seen the video where the guy gets thrown off the pier head first...sorry for the graphics.


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## poppop1 (Feb 16, 2004)

Fishing NRI around 1:00 am afew years ago, had a guy come over and was going to open my tackle box, I said " can I help you?", he looks over and says, oh, I thought you were someone else, I was the only one fishing and was there before he arrived, anyway, I had my old schedule 40 rod holders that nite figured a smack in the face with one would make him think, I wouldn't want to get hit with one!, keep it in mind.


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*Norfolk General*

I can't tell you how many people I have seen in the O.R. at Norfolk General that were at the wrong place at the wrong time. Rule number one never go to a gun fight with a knife.


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## HDW2 (Feb 15, 2009)

SpinMeister99, only one thing comes to mind with this mind set. If you pull out a gun, plan on pulling the trigger!! Period! No if, and or butts about it. Secondly, not a very good choice of self defense weapon. 

Personally I carry 24/7 a 45ACP 1911. (Not a real good choice either under normal circumstances) Yea, it may be large and a tad bulky, but it is also my race gun I use in compititions. I am used to it, never jams, and can unload 9 rounds in less than 6 seconds accurately @ 25 yds. (6" metal targets)

I am confused by some of the answers here, but I always give to each his own in these types of decisions. I never have problems with people attempting to do me harm, maybe because the way I look, maybe because I show I am aware of everything around me at all times. When I see something I am suspecious of, I tend to get closer to the problem and let it be known I am there watching. Last thing i want to do is kill anyone but at the same time, wiling to do so to protect my own, or anyone in a life threatning situation. The main differance here is the Florida Castle Doctrine. We are no longer required to flee in a threatning situation. Military college also helps with situation training, Alpha mentality, and the best defense is usually obtained when on the offense!!

Safety in numbers can give you a false sense of security. If none of you are prepared for trouble, you will all become victums. 

We are out here to fish, have a good time, be with friends and buddies, yet BE PREPARED AT ALL TIMES. Unfortunately todays society is not what it used to be.


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## Fireline20 (Oct 2, 2007)

HDW, your are totally correct and if I pull it out and need to use it I will. And true to on your 1911 44ACP, good weapon but as to the Remmy, if you do the right things it is completely reliable. 

First and foremost use nothing else but Remington #10 caps if it is a Pietta (which mine is) as they fit like a glove on the nipples. 

Second, having said that, always take your capper or some other brass tool, and press the cap down on the nipple with enough force to make a little dimple in the cap. 

Third, never put powder or a pellet in a newly cleaned and oiled cylinder, the powder will absorb the oil/moisture and be useless. Fire a round of blank caps in the cylinder then clean the barrel bore

Do all of the above and your ready to add powder and you can store the gun and it will be ready for action. 

Now having said that, I hedge my bets and never let it sit for more than two weeks without discharging all 6 cylinders and repeating the above. But hey I love to shoot it an I love to clean it.


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## HDW2 (Feb 15, 2009)

SpinMeister99 said:


> But hey I love to shoot it an I love to clean it.


I do to, at least 2-3 times a week. BUT I will respectfully disagree on the cleaning part. One weapon is no big deal but I usually go out with 3, 4 or 5. And when using full auto firearms, the cleaning is quite laborsome if you want it done right. Then comes the timers, holsters, loading equipment, polishing brass, so on and so on. I'm just anal that way. But it's all part of the fun. It's amazing I find time to fish and play golf.


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## bluefish1928 (Jun 9, 2007)

kgpcr said:


> Be careful if you carry a gun. More people get shot with thier own gun that you can imagine. You MUST be able to pull the trigger. Its not a natural thing to kill some one. Dirty Harry is just a myth. After all the training the Marines could give me it was odd to pull the trigger the first time. Training kicked in and you took care of busines but it was not normal. That being said i carry a pistol often. At a boat landing late at night i pulled in and there were a group of punks there. They started to get bolder and bolder. My buddy who was in the Marines with me was with. As one of them asked him for his wallet he started to laugh. the kid took a swing at my buddy who promptly sprayed him and the group with a can of Bear Repelent. That sure took care of business. We both laughed our butts off as we loaded the boat and watched them in agony.


very funny


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## cannotlogin (Sep 1, 2008)

I commonly have this, because I live in Richmond, all the good spots are down town where I would not be caught dead at night. I see it like this it ain't worth dying for so just keep out at night.


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## Bubbasales (Aug 4, 2008)

*Don't tell Obama*



Jesse Lockowitz said:


>


Right on Jesse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If they start bothering me, i'll wear my trench coat with my waders and be waiting. Heck, that;d be more fun than trying to unravel a dogfish.


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## DarkSkies (Aug 16, 2008)

I fish a lot of questionable areas in NY and NJ. A lot of guys made sense here when they talked about blending in. If you ain't comfortable around different cultures, you'll be nervous and it will show. 

The smartest thing I do is make sure my vhicle is secured and nothing "interesting" is showing inside. I always carry a fishin knife. The best defense is a good offense works. 

If you really want to fish a place, and see rough people fishin there, blending or having a good joke or fish story handy helps, but you have to be down with that culture or risk a beatdown. I keep to myself mostly, but will not avoid an urban place if the fish are there. 

You would be surprised some of the cows that are pulled out of these urban environments. I can't stay away from that. I'm not advising everyone else to do this. If you have reservations about it, don't.


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

sand flea said:


> I spent years fishing in some of the roughest parts of Baltimore and can guarantee you that you do not want to engage with bad guys. I'm not talking about piers full of drunks and idiots. I'm talking about genuinely dangerous places with dangerous people. But it was fine because I stayed low-key and friendly. I was a guy there to fish and mind his own business.
> 
> Seriously, Dirty Harry fantasies will land you in hot water. Either get comfortable with the locals and make a few friends or stop fishing there.





surf rat said:


> I can't tell you how many people I have seen in the O.R. at Norfolk General that were at the wrong place at the wrong time. Rule number one never go to a gun fight with a knife.


sad. fishing is a way to chill out. I have only had 1 that went over. but, I do know the knife, and a .357 2 shot if " if chit happens". " Idiots and Aholes" there. go elsewhere. call the cops and the fish cops.


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## Xi Bowhunter (Mar 23, 2009)

Reading all this makes me glad I don't live anywhere close to you guys. I don't ever want to have to fight to fish.


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

Trouble with a gun is you have to kill somebody for it to really do you good.
Then you got to live with that -plenty of vets can tell you about that.
But if it's choice of me or my family being gunned down like a dog I hope I make the right choice.


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## drawinout (May 11, 2008)

Xi Bowhunter said:


> Reading all this makes me glad I don't live anywhere close to you guys. I don't ever want to have to fight to fish.


It isn't bad all over. I've done quite a bit of pier fishing in VA, and I've never felt uncomfortable, day or night. Now, I'm not sayin there are a bunch of angels out there. I still keep an eye on my gear, as you will find thieves everywhere you go. If you spend enough time on the piers, you're eventually going to see some kind of trouble, depending on what piers you frequent. Most of the trouble I've seen was caused by the extremely intoxicated, or thug lifes, neither of which I'm very worried about. Most of the piers around here seem fine to me. Can sometimes be a "seedy" element on OV pier. You know, thug lifes, and skanky "hooker" types, but I've never really felt unsafe.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

I know a lot of you guys may have CCW permits, and that's your right to.. However I tend to agree with Matt aka Sandflea. Bad guys and drunks are too different things. It's easy to say what you will do, but unless you're put in a situation that could be deadly you don't really know ho you will hande it. REAL bad guys have guns too, and unlike many of you theirs aren't registered. Which means if they shoot you and toss the pistol they wont have it traced back.. Running across a person that was nothing to lose and doesn't value life is a scary thing.. Living in Baltimore has shown me that several times..


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

drawinout said:


> It isn't bad all over. I've done quite a bit of pier fishing in VA, and I've never felt uncomfortable, day or night. Now, I'm not sayin there are a bunch of angels out there. I still keep an eye on my gear, as you will find thieves everywhere you go. If you spend enough time on the piers, you're eventually going to see some kind of trouble, depending on what piers you frequent. Most of the trouble I've seen was caused by the extremely intoxicated, or thug lifes, neither of which I'm very worried about. Most of the piers around here seem fine to me. Can sometimes be a "seedy" element on OV pier. You know, thug lifes, and skanky "hooker" types, but I've never really felt unsafe.


true. 


kmw21230 said:


> I know a lot of you guys may have CCW permits, and that's your right to.. However I tend to agree with Matt aka Sandflea. Bad guys and drunks are too different things. It's easy to say what you will do, but unless you're put in a situation that could be deadly you don't really know ho you will hande it. REAL bad guys have guns too, and unlike many of you theirs aren't registered. Which means if they shoot you and toss the pistol they wont have it traced back.. Running across a person that was nothing to lose and doesn't value life is a scary thing.. Living in Baltimore has shown me that several times..


Ignore and fish. You only get "crap" , 1 in a 100 times. If its more often, fish somewhere else. Just understand, it could happen anywhere. The WORLD is going "TO HELL IN A HAND BASKET". People that don't fish/hunt have no understanding about LIFE!!! sad JMHO


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## Out Sick (May 27, 2006)

kmw21230 said:


> I know a lot of you guys may have CCW permits, and that's your right to.. However I tend to agree with Matt aka Sandflea. Bad guys and drunks are too different things. It's easy to say what you will do, but unless you're put in a situation that could be deadly you don't really know ho you will hande it. REAL bad guys have guns too, and unlike many of you theirs aren't registered. Which means if they shoot you and toss the pistol they wont have it traced back.. Running across a person that was nothing to lose and doesn't value life is a scary thing.. Living in Baltimore has shown me that several times..


Coming from a CCW permit holder I don't really understand your point.I agree with Sandflea as I showed in my first post. And living in your area I'm sure you've seen the REAL BAD guys. I do home invasion claims for a large ins. co. and 85% of my claims come from Balt. P.G. County, & Anne Arundel. Those areas are bad! I mean real BAD! I don't want to get anywheres close to there if I can help it. But the whole deal about some thug, thief, or whoever carrying a non-registered gun has no bearing with me. I could care less. I don't care where his gun lands, most guys like that wanna talk trash to you first anyway. Any man with a CCW permit should be well aware of his surroundings and I don't see; and I think I can speak for every CCW permit holder caring about where that guys gonna toss his gun. As far as pulling the trigger goes being in that situation thing, "I wouldn't carry a gun if I wasn't prepared to pull the trigger" Basically, I have to draw my weapon- somebodys getting shot. You don't pull it unless you have to and when you do, its all over. Subcompact .45 ACP with a laser baby! Hell, those bullets are so big I could just throw em at the victim.


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## KConrad (Oct 14, 2007)

This was a great thread to read! 

I've just moved to VA from SoCal and I can tell you that for one, a handgun is not an option for the concerned poster. CA is a "may issue" state not a "shall issue" state and CCW's are reserved for very few people that can suitably "show cause"... and sadly a recreational fisherman in fear for the safety of is own person and/or family is not cause in CA. Sad but true...... Anyway, even if one did have a CCW, and was placed in a situation where he/she had to use their weapon, and they did so with the greatest discretion and in accordance with all the "last resort" measures they would still be in a world of shit. 

Look, just because the shooting was "justified" doesn't mean your out of the woods. Your still held accountable for laws such as discharging a firearm in city limits, public endangerment, god help you if your near a school, and if you fire a round that didn't hit your target your liable for where that round lands. Even with a "good" shooting, expect to be in litigation for years and paying thousands of dollars in fines (oh yea, and just because you were cleared criminally, doesn't clear you from civil litigation as the family of the punk that accosted you sues you for everything they can get out of you for taking their beloved child who was REALLY a good kid)

I do not/did not fish many areas of San Diego for this reason... it's better to delay your pleasure to preserve you quality of life... I am not sure how I like VA yet, I've only been here a couple weeks... but I am sure I'm glad to be out of CA! 

Those of you in SoCal may be aware of a recent case in San Diego where a "local" surfer stud and all around "good guy" got drunk at a bar, started a fight and beat the crap out of some poor guy... well this guy had a friend who stepped in and hit the surfer with one good blow, knocking him to the ground where he didn't get up... ever.. yep some how the friend managed to kill the belligerent punk surfer with one punch and that poor kid is now facing life in prison because he stepped up and helped his buddy out... you are simply not allowed to be anything BUT a victim, or criminal in CA...

As one person put it to me when I first got to CA: "So Cal, where you arrive on vacation and leave on probation"


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

KConrad said:


> This was a great thread to read!
> 
> I've just moved to VA from SoCal and I can tell you that for one, a handgun is not an option for the concerned poster. CA is a "may issue" state not a "shall issue" state and CCW's are reserved for very few people that can suitably "show cause"... and sadly a recreational fisherman in fear for the safety of is own person and/or family is not cause in CA. Sad but true...... Anyway, even if one did have a CCW, and was placed in a situation where he/she had to use their weapon, and they did so with the greatest discretion and in accordance with all the "last resort" measures they would still be in a world of shit.
> 
> ...


Very good post.

I avoid confrontation when ever it is wise to do so (Most times).

I'm also in agreement with Kwesi, there is no logical reason for intentionally mixing it up with scum with no regard for life. As for gun toters, I understand it as a last resort for protection-- just don't get the idea that carrying makes you invincible---- or that not carrying and going out of your way to avoid trouble makes someone "cowardly", it's simply the smart thing to do.


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## Fishbreath (Nov 11, 2004)

Surf Cat said:


> Very good post.
> 
> I avoid confrontation when ever it is wise to do so (Most times).
> 
> I'm also in agreement with Kwesi, there is no logical reason for intentionally mixing it up with scum with no regard for life. As for gun toters, I understand it as a last resort for protection-- just don't get the idea that carrying makes you invincible---- or that not carrying and going out of your way to avoid trouble makes someone "cowardly", it's simply the smart thing to do.


Totally agree. Live to fish another day. Its not cowardly to avoid trouble if you can. KConrad made a great point about litigation that goes on afterward even if "justified". 

Also, if you carry, don't pull unless you have to and then, you probably have to use it. Bad news all the way around.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

Guns in my opinion give some people a false sense of invincibility. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying you shouldn't own one, but a negitive situation should be avoid regardless, and especially if you have a gun I'm from PG County, and know that the same element you're referring to can be found in every state. TO be totally honest I think a lot of the fear comes from not being comfortable with your surroundings (PEOPLE DIFFERENT THAN YOU). Most of the trash talkers on the piers aren't real bad guys. Example: I have heard for years about how bad North Beach Pier is... And after fishing it for a couple seasons I can say it can get loud and a little rowdy and maybe an occasional fight. Nothing that would warrant carrying a gun... 



Out Sick said:


> Coming from a CCW permit holder I don't really understand your point.I agree with Sandflea as I showed in my first post. And living in your area I'm sure you've seen the REAL BAD guys. I do home invasion claims for a large ins. co. and 85% of my claims come from Balt. P.G. County, & Anne Arundel. Those areas are bad! I mean real BAD! I don't want to get anywheres close to there if I can help it. But the whole deal about some thug, thief, or whoever carrying a non-registered gun has no bearing with me. I could care less. I don't care where his gun lands, most guys like that wanna talk trash to you first anyway. Any man with a CCW permit should be well aware of his surroundings and I don't see; and I think I can speak for every CCW permit holder caring about where that guys gonna toss his gun. As far as pulling the trigger goes being in that situation thing, "I wouldn't carry a gun if I wasn't prepared to pull the trigger" Basically, I have to draw my weapon- somebodys getting shot. You don't pull it unless you have to and when you do, its all over. Subcompact .45 ACP with a laser baby! Hell, those bullets are so big I could just throw em at the victim.


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## HDW2 (Feb 15, 2009)

kmw21230 said:


> I know a lot of you guys may have CCW permits, and that's your right to.. However I tend to agree with Matt aka Sandflea. *Bad guys and drunks are too different things.* It's easy to say what you will do, *but unless you're put in a situation that could be deadly you don't really know ho you will hande it.* REAL bad guys have guns too, and unlike many of you *theirs aren't registered. Which means if they shoot you and toss the pistol they wont have it traced back*.. Running across a person that was nothing to lose and doesn't value life is a scary thing.. Living in Baltimore has shown me that several times..



Drunks and bad guys are no different. How many times do you hear about someon that went home and killed their wife, room mate, what ever, all because they were drunk and didn't know what they were doing. I treat them the same! They are both dangerous. However you DO have an advantage with a drunk. You will be faster and thinking clearly. That gives you a double advantage. 

Weather a gun is registered or not makes no differance. Tracability? I dont see any corralation there. If I am in the right, why would I toss my gun? If anything, I have an advantage over the bad guy. I KNOW my guns, how they handle, have a multitude of thousands of rounds through them. I am comfortable handling my guns. Is the bad guy feeling the same with his, of course not. All he knows is point (poorly) and shoot. Is he proficiant with his weapon, not as much as I am. (But this does remind me of a story I read seome years back in the newspaper where a bad guy had a stolen gun and tried to load the 22 with 25 auto rounds. Didn't fit well so he hit the bottom of the shell with an object and shot his left testicle off. TFF)

As far as having been in the situation, there are so many ex military vets out here like myself, I think we know what we would do. No question about it. If your not sure what you would do, dont carry a gun! Go take some lessons, get comfortable with them, get CONFIDANT! Then you wil know what you will do.


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## Lipyourown (May 11, 2005)

Cut your bait with an ax, problem solved. 

Just joking, sandflea had sound advice and so did the guy who said move.


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## HDW2 (Feb 15, 2009)

KConrad said:


> This was a great thread to read!
> 
> I've just moved to VA from SoCal and I can tell you that for one, a handgun is not an option for the concerned poster. CA is a "may issue" state not a "shall issue" state and CCW's are reserved for very few people that can suitably "show cause"... and sadly a recreational fisherman in fear for the safety of is own person and/or family is not cause in CA. Sad but true...... Anyway, even if one did have a CCW, and was placed in a situation where he/she had to use their weapon, and they did so with the greatest discretion and in accordance with all the "last resort" measures they would still be in a world of shit.
> 
> ...



Good to see a fellow San Diegan has escaped the Nazi state. Born there, after 15 years moved up to Malibu. Believe me it is worse up there!! 

I looked very hard at what state I wanted to retire in, Florida was the choice. Not only is it easy, all you need do is apply, prove you can handle a weapon) to get a CCW, but encouraged!! The Castle Doctrine laws here boil down to the fact we are not going to be victims any more. Laws are changing for the better. 

Flee to fish another day? That is sad! At what point will you ever defend your right to do as you wish? This attitude is what put this country in the sad state it is in now. When I hear this, it like you read every day in the paper. "Old lady gets mugged in front of 20 bystanders" What is wrong with these people. Why did they not step in and stop it, or at the very least tackle the guy and hold him for police? It's not worth dying for? Bull crap. It IS worth it! If people dont start stepping up, before long the criminals will be in charge! Picture this, Thugs standing on the beach where you want to fish. Give me your wallet if you want to fish here. I dont think so!!

Apologies if I offended any one. Just a passionate subject with me.


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## treydunn48 (Apr 9, 2008)

when my grandfather lived in bmore he had a 8gauge and no one came to his house after he came home from the range one day.


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## 9 rock (Nov 30, 2008)

treydunn48 said:


> I personally learned how to knife fight from a friend of mine, but I do carry pepper spray a hard plastic knuckles set:redface: (basicly plastic brass knuckles with blunt points) and a assisted knife all the time. Other than that im 6'4 278lbs and am still growing starting on the varsity football team


My best advise stick to football


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## 9 rock (Nov 30, 2008)

Out Sick said:


> Coming from a CCW permit holder I don't really understand your point.I agree with Sandflea as I showed in my first post. And living in your area I'm sure you've seen the REAL BAD guys. I do home invasion claims for a large ins. co. and 85% of my claims come from Balt. P.G. County, & Anne Arundel. Those areas are bad! I mean real BAD! I don't want to get anywheres close to there if I can help it. But the whole deal about some thug, thief, or whoever carrying a non-registered gun has no bearing with me. I could care less. I don't care where his gun lands, most guys like that wanna talk trash to you first anyway. Any man with a CCW permit should be well aware of his surroundings and I don't see; and I think I can speak for every CCW permit holder caring about where that guys gonna toss his gun. As far as pulling the trigger goes being in that situation thing, "I wouldn't carry a gun if I wasn't prepared to pull the trigger" Basically, I have to draw my weapon- somebodys getting shot. You don't pull it unless you have to and when you do, its all over. Subcompact .45 ACP with a laser baby! Hell, those bullets are so big I could just throw em at the victim.


I have fished all over those areas for the last 30 yrs including DC and not once have I had a problam I allways mind my own buisness but I do aproach others with some conversation I cant count how many times I was the only white guy there, when I was younger I would carry a pint or 2 of MD 20/20 and offer up a swig I always looked at fishing as a common ground where every one shared the same intrest and could get along mabe those areas are differant now. or mabe no one wanted to mess with me I dont know wich I would like to think it was the common ground


9rock


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## Out Sick (May 27, 2006)

9 rock said:


> I have fished all over those areas for the last 30 yrs including DC and not once have I had a problam I allways mind my own buisness but I do aproach others with some conversation I cant count how many times I was the only white guy there, when I was younger I would carry a pint or 2 of MD 20/20 and offer up a swig I always looked at fishing as a common ground where every one shared the same intrest and could get along mabe those areas are differant now. or mabe no one wanted to mess with me I dont know wich I would like to think it was the common ground
> 
> 
> 9rock


Very Good advice 9 rock. I imagine Mad Dog in that area would make you royalty. And a king if you had 2 bottles. None the less, blending in and being able to just be a people person will get you outta more trouble than anything else.


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## 9 rock (Nov 30, 2008)

Out Sick said:


> Very Good advice 9 rock. I imagine Mad Dog in that area would make you royalty. And a king if you had 2 bottles. None the less, blending in and being able to just be a people person will get you outta more trouble than anything else.


hey I will rub elbows with the jet set or shoot craps or pitch quarters in the ally makes no differance to me martinni or ripple goes all to the same place
allways liked MD 20/20 grape fruit for cold fishing nights:beer:



9rock


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## KConrad (Oct 14, 2007)

HDW2 said:


> Good to see a fellow San Diegan has escaped the Nazi state. Born there, after 15 years moved up to Malibu. Believe me it is worse up there!!
> 
> I looked very hard at what state I wanted to retire in, Florida was the choice. Not only is it easy, all you need do is apply, prove you can handle a weapon) to get a CCW, but encouraged!! The Castle Doctrine laws here boil down to the fact we are not going to be victims any more. Laws are changing for the better.
> 
> ...


You know as well as I do, it's bad in CA all over.. CA is a perfect example of what life is like with Way too much governmental control (interference). 

Im sure no one was offended by your post, and you do make an excellent point. However, it's not the people that don't want to get involved. It's the fact that when they do, the Gov. won't back them up! 

Look at all the good samaritans you hear about being sued because they broke ribs while saving some one's life while doing the heimlich maneuver, or chest compressions. How many people have been involved in good shootings and are paying restitution to the perpetrators survivors. 

It's not that people don't want to get involved, and I firmly believe that. They aren't afraid of getting hurt and they do want to take back their recreational areas and neighborhoods. They are scared of the long term effects of getting involved. The police can't/won't protect us, and the courts won't back us up when we protect our self's.

That doesn't mean give up all hope, nor does it mean quit trying. I'm just saying one has to choose one's battles very carefully, and be aware that the legal state of this country isn't what it was 20yrs ago.

My fishing is important to me, and worth fighting for, as is my neighborhood. However it's not worth me losing my children's home, financial stability, and going bankrupt because I have to pay the way of some SOB's survivors. Hell paying for the welfare, wic, health care is bad enough.


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## Snyiper (Mar 18, 2009)

Consider something a little odd for shore use but a nice flare pistol. You could shoot it up for help or accidently discharge it into the chest of your attacker (thats gonna leave a mark) I think the best advice is to find a less hazardous spot it will make things easier all around.


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## HDW2 (Feb 15, 2009)

I agree to a point there KCONRAD. Like I said earlier, one must choose a state to live in which self protection is allowed. Ones like Florida, Kansas, Wyoming, Montana, all allow such and encourage it! I no not live in any fear, and when I do see things going awary, I step in and resolve things and in most cases, no police necessary. Hurt pride is much worse that some lame arrest for something that wouldn't even get the perpatraitor 24 hours in jail anyways. Of course in Florida I have never seen or had any problems while fishing over the last 25 years.


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