# WRAL documentary about commercial fishing just aired tonight



## moose22dog (Feb 17, 2010)

http://www.wral.com/net-effect-the-fight-over-flounder-/15019970/


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## ncdead (Jun 16, 2015)

This is precisely why I don't make the five hour trip to the outer banks multiple times a year anymore. Tired of beating the water for two or three days with very little to show for it. We just went to rodanthe two weeks ago...went offshore and caught some black fin and dolphin. Fished the surf for two days and caught one keeper flounder and nothing else. Water conditions looked ideal. Talked to folks who had been fishing for the prior week and they all said the same thing....SLOW. North Carolina has incredible potential and it's sickening that so many recreational folks are getting screwed by politics and special interests. Nothing short of the rape of a public resource. I'll save my money and go bass fishing in the farm pond. I love saltwater fishing but it's just too damn depressing/infuriating knowing how good it could and should be.....rant done.


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## ncdead (Jun 16, 2015)

The wral documentary link is about Commercial fishing, not comical fishing.....nothing funny about it. It states among other things that 96 Percent of the southern flounder sold in the U.S. Comes from North Carolina waters. Maybe moose dog can edit the heading and change comical to commercial so folks won't pass it by thinking its a fishing blooper link. Thanks for the post moose.


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## pods (Sep 10, 2013)

I read that story yesterday. It really is sad with the amount of water for breeding fish in NC that it seems so hit or miss. 
From the story it seems Raleigh was intent on keeping it safe for the comms (one legislator spoke about taking over jurisdiction). Not sure if that is good or bad but between Big Menhaden running the Chesapeake and NC allowing trawling/gill netting our fishery has a dim future.
I have caught too many pups to count that had that telltale mark of being caught in a gill net. Not sure if they escaped or were released. Seems that the scars were deep though. Wonder how long they were in the nets?
The NC shrimp industry should see the writing on the wall. Shrimp trawling is a poor reward for the effort, and the bycatch is appalling. There is a reason why most all the shrimp you see are farm raised.


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## Golfmancbp (Sep 15, 2015)

Yeah I watched the documentary last night, really sad, I grew up fishing piers and surf and it just isn't the same down there anymore, not just missing the spot runs, just no fish to run anymore. me and my son just joined the CCA NC, maybe those folks in Raleigh can make some better decisions for us recreational fisherman before it's too late, if not too late already!!


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## Alexy (Nov 1, 2010)

Here is a link of our douche governor in VA making fast friends with the folks at Omega Protien.... They do a fine job of clearing out the seas of fish both in VA and NC
. http://omegaprotein.com/mcauliffe-2015-menhaden-harvest-level-set/


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## dlpetrey (Oct 30, 2013)

So I'll probably get some ugly looks asking about this but I really don't know anything about this situation. Is the comm industry the entity getting the most blame for the decreasing rec fishery? It does seem like fishing at the OBX is not what it used to be. Is it more nuanced than that though? Do the small mom and pop guys affect the fishery in a negative way? Is it the huge corporate conglomerates? Should I just keep my mouth shut? What can us average joes do to help improve the fishery?


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## Golfmancbp (Sep 15, 2015)

Hey dlpetrey, did you check out the wral documentary, I think it did a fine job in explaining where all the fish have gone, check it out if you haven't already. I am no tree hugger by no means, but this is one subject that draws my attention because fishing is in my blood. I grew up fishing with my father at the coast, and am now bringing my son to the beach to fish but the fish just aren't there like they used to be. If you happen to fish from the surf or pier fish, it's not hard to figure out what happened, just look out pass the breakers at all the shrimp boats going up and down the beach.


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## ncdead (Jun 16, 2015)

Just wondering if net guys from other states that have imposed bans or restrictions are coming to fish NC waters.


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## kbueno1 (Jun 3, 2015)

The numbers in the documentary re: bycatch by the trawlers was very disconcerting.

A topic not mentioned in the documentary was if there are viable measures to replenish any of the hard-hit stocks via hatcheries. I did not find any saltwater hatchery initiatives in NC, but there are 6 or so freshwater hatcheries. They are taking a stab at in MA : http://www.nmt.us/news/vineyardflounderstocking.pdf

kbueno


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## letmefish (May 23, 2015)

Eventually most of the fish will be gone and the "Commercial Fisherman" will go out of business because they aren't catching anymore fish. Also many more will turn away from "recreational fishing" because there aren't any fish to hook. These two things will happen. Then there will be no more money provided by the Commercial Fisherman to feed the attorneys and the legislature, they will then lose interest and stop "caring" about Commercial Fishing. Then and only then you will see change. Quietly the rules will change and inshore trawling, and Gill Netting will be stopped. Then and only then will we see change for the better. After that, we will just have to wait to see if the fish themselves return. It's gonna be a long slow wait.

As usual, it's all about money or the promise of money. Many of those 13 "legislatures" will give up caring once the money is gone and move on to some other money-grubbing issue to champion. Just follow the money trail, and see how fast everyone stops caring when the money is gone.


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## moose22dog (Feb 17, 2010)

ncdead said:


> The wral documentary link is about Commercial fishing, not comical fishing.....nothing funny about it. It states among other things that 96 Percent of the southern flounder sold in the U.S. Comes from North Carolina waters. Maybe moose dog can edit the heading and change comical to commercial so folks won't pass it by thinking its a fishing blooper link. Thanks for the post moose.


Sorry bout the miss spell your right there's nothing funny at all about this, thank mods for correcting the title. And your welcome for the post. I actually just got done watching it on tv and figured i should post this here asap.


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## Spinning Reel (Feb 27, 2007)

The documentary was informative however I think it was missing an angle that would have added to it. Many times, the documentary stated that NC is the only state on the east coast now that still allows (fill in the blank). I'd be interested in the processes by which our neighboring states made changes to their coastal fisheries management programs. I'm sure fishing is deep in the blood of coastal residents in other states yet those states passed laws. 

There is precedent for what is being attempted here. While the issue is NC's to bear, some reference to how other states passed laws would have been nice. Such as the before and after allowances, the length of time and iterations of laws that took place to get to their current position. For example, South Carolina has a remarkable coastal fishery. There was a shift politically, legally, and socially to make that happen. Some insight to that would have been helpful.


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## dlpetrey (Oct 30, 2013)

Spinning Reel said:


> The documentary was informative however I think it was missing an angle that would have added to it. Many times, the documentary stated that NC is the only state on the east coast now that still allows (fill in the blank). I'd be interested in the processes by which our neighboring states made changes to their coastal fisheries management programs. I'm sure fishing is deep in the blood of coastal residents in other states yet those states passed laws.
> 
> There is precedent for what is being attempted here. While the issue is NC's to bear, some reference to how other states passed laws would have been nice. Such as the before and after allowances, the length of time and iterations of laws that took place to get to their current position. For example, South Carolina has a remarkable coastal fishery. There was a shift politically, legally, and socially to make that happen. Some insight to that would have been helpful.


Excellent post. I want to know what we can do now, today, to help our fisheries. We can't just sit on the sidelines.


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## pods (Sep 10, 2013)

dlpetrey said:


> Excellent post. I want to know what we can do now, today, to help our fisheries. We can't just sit on the sidelines.


I have actually been thinking about this as well. Got me thinking if you could make a workable business plan around running a salt water hatchery. I mean, trout are basically kept going by hatchery fish, why not help out the flounder, sea trout, etc?
Not a huge fan of government though (understatement) and my guess is you would have to schmooze all sorts of unseemly folk.


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## letmefish (May 23, 2015)

pods said:


> I have actually been thinking about this as well. Got me thinking if you could make a workable business plan around running a salt water hatchery. I mean, trout are basically kept going by hatchery fish, why not help out the flounder, sea trout, etc?
> Not a huge fan of government though (understatement) and my guess is you would have to schmooze all sorts of unseemly folk.



"Schmooze" What a word. 

I think you are correct though. I just hate the idea of having to smooch the inner souls of someone's rectum to get this done. The legislature has no business being part of this process, and I think it's a shamed that they put their noses in it. Money-grubbing cut throats. They need to be focused on this "coal-ash" crap that keeps leaking into our rivers. The Commercial Fisherman are only hurting themselves in the long run. Once they have depleted all the fish, they themselves will starve.

Why can't they follow some sort of Biblical principal and see if that helps? Ya know, something like fish the water for 6 years, and on the 7th year let it rest? Just a thought.


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## ryback770 (May 12, 2015)

The destruction of fisheries is a WORLDWIDE problem. Commercial fishing corporations don't give a damn. Short term profit,..long term destruction of every FISHERY ON EARTH! (AND THEIR CORPS. WITH IT)
I saw some of this in the late 1950"s in England, Denmark etc. Later, (in the 90's) the Cod crashed out on the Grand Banks, Cod probably won't ever recover.
Folks, we're witnessing the destruction of the planet's ecosystem. Whether it's fisheries, drinking water, the air, stands of forests; they're being wiped out.
The blind eye N C politicians have is typical WORLDWIDE. I used to think that the human species would learn from past mistakes, and change their behavior thus ensuring survival of **** sapiens. I NO LONGER BELIEVE THAT! 
The only way to save the human species is mastering interplanetary travel. This planet is DOOMED!!!!!!!!


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## gshivar (Aug 29, 2006)

Wow! We got some real wackos on this thread! Go back 30 years. Same comments, just different media. Lotta Charlotte and Raleigh posters on here. They want come down once a year and have fish jump in their boat. Yea, flounder #'s down. Why...15 inches has a lot to do with how many we keep. best - glenn


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

gshivar said:


> Wow! We got some real wackos on this thread! Go back 30 years. Same comments, just different media. Lotta Charlotte and Raleigh posters on here. They want come down once a year and have fish jump in their boat. Yea, flounder #'s down. Why...15 inches has a lot to do with how many we keep. best - glenn


When they show up at the beach and the Tackle Shop has no fresh shrimp or mullet for them to fish with they are also outraged

If everyone did their part and quit all the killing for a few years then perhaps it could go back to the old days, but likely not.........too many people competing for a resource. 

Having fished the OBX since the mid 1960's when as an 11 year old I could really put the hurt on them Flounder, the main difference is there might have been a hundred thousand visitors a year to the OBX annually, these days it is 2mil plus....

I will say this the large Drum fishing on the OBX back in the day was never as hot as it is these days and there was a total ban in those days for taking large drum by net, it was the recs who killed them 100-200 at a time down at Cape Point who whacked them pretty good.....I was one of them so I am just as guilty as the rest.

If a Drum fella caught 25-30 Citation Drum in a season in the mid 1980's off the surf or planks on the OBX he was really doing something..............a few fellas these days have done that in one day or one week.....and if when they show up they are expecting all the white boxes sitting outside the tackle stores to have plenty of fatback/mullet on ice............where do you think that bait comes from?


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## pods (Sep 10, 2013)

gshivar said:


> Wow! We got some real wackos on this thread! Go back 30 years. Same comments, just different media. Lotta Charlotte and Raleigh posters on here. They want come down once a year and have fish jump in their boat. Yea, flounder #'s down. Why...15 inches has a lot to do with how many we keep. best - glenn


Did you ever think that maybe 30 years ago the same problems were happening? 
I am not going to go down the path about "if you don't live here you can't bitch." I do think it is disingenuous to bring that up though. 
Bringing up the bycatch numbers is not a "wacko" comment. It is a valid issue with trawling and or gill netting.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

pods said:


> Did you ever think that maybe 30 years ago the same problems were happening?
> I am not going to go down the path about "if you don't live here you can't bitch." I do think it is disingenuous to bring that up though.
> Bringing up the bycatch numbers is not a "wacko" comment. It is a valid issue with trawling and or gill netting.


When I lived on Hatteras, you were living amongst the commercial fishermen, it was their Island as far as I was concerned I was just lucky that they accepted me after some years of tribulations....

I have seen few instances (Maybe one or two in forty years) where rec fishermen who actually lived on the Island ever complained about a commercial fisherman plundering a resource, you can only go out in your boat so many days, so it is not all glory and banking $$ from your check back from Fulton's. More like scratching out a living and going home in a rusty truck to a wife raising kids who want to leave the Island and make it big somewhere else in America.

Most folks and especially the one that had lived on the Island for generations felt that it was a God-given right to make a living off the water if that is what one chose to do.

There is not a lot of shrimping these days going on out of the marinas on Hatteras, I am not sure about Wanchese, but I like eating shrimp, I am here in Chicago working and I like eating fish.

The argument that people not on the coast should only eat farm raised Vietnamese shrimp or Nova Scotia farmed Atlantic Salmon or Tilapia, makes sense to some, I have never tried Tilapia....Eat Salmon they say is wild caught but evidently it is a fraud a lot of times and Salmon came from Nova Scotia in a floating pen getting fed pellets made from who knows what..

I have had Shrimp that was living that morning in the Pamlico and I will testify that the flavor of Vietnamese or Cambodian Shrimp cannot compare........did creatures die so that I could eat that Shrimp......that is part of life

Anyway on Hatteras anyway most of the fellas I fished with when I was in a Commercial gill net boat in the Pamlico are dead and in their graves so you can cry all you want about the rape of the resource cause they cannot hear you....

I would agree that salt water hatcheries would be a help, but one thing that all of us get to take credit for is the water quality...........in 1966 I could wade under the Wright Memorial Bridge in water up to my chest and get clams with my bare feet, you could see your feet in the water. from four feet up...the water was clear and it was full of grass and full of life.............when you drive over the Wright Memorial Bridge these days the water is a coffee colored brown color and the signs all say "Do not eat Shellfish"...

There were no businesses on the Bypass in those days, there were no houses besides what lined RT 12 on the beach road, there were not 2mil people every season flushing toilets, taking showers, dripping oil from the their 4x4's there was just a highway headed South to Bonner Bridge and Manteo and some scrub and patches of sand and reeds that made up the scenery instead of McDonald's and Food Lion and Burger King and nineteen Wings stores.......

Will it ever go back to what is was......no it will not.........one day the OBX will be under water same as all the houses that are gone along that stretch in Kitty Hawk near the Black Pelican....the now-deceased and underwater houses I spent my Summer's in, never realizing the influx of people to come...........If you feel that you must stop all commercial fishing in NC you will not have my help.....Come down to Hatteras with a bumper sticker reading "End Gill Netting in NC" ........I am sure the island fellas in White boots will think of some way to welcome you


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## pods (Sep 10, 2013)

Well, not to be a dick, but since when does concern for a resource that is shared by all lead to first being called a "wacko" and then being threatened by the "fellas in white boots?"
I an under no impression that coms are raking it big (unless they are foreign poachers offshore or you happen to be attached to a large corporation that writes the quota laws for say, menhaden). The take by those are even not that great. 
But there is serious pressure on our fisheries. I want my son, who is learning to take a fish by jig, to be able to teach his son that art as well.

Coms have to police their own. There were stories last spring about Md poachers for rock that many shrugged off as being just how things are. It seemed the whole island saw it as their birthright. 
I understand that recs and coms are in the same boat. If one is taken down, the other isn't far behind. I have seen it (albeit from a distance) with gold dredgers and trout fishermen in California. Trout fishermen were turned against the dredgers with pics of dirty water a couple of yards downstream of a dredge and that was enough to get them behind banning dredging. Now wait and see how the fly fishermen are pushed out next.

Those closest to the water are always going to be able to see things more and remedy them more clearly. Well, the story from the OP had a comment (threat more like it) by a legislator about not going after the Coms.
I think that the answers are going to be found closest to the resource. Not by paying off Raleigh to allow things to stay "the way they are." Most destruction, whether fisheries, land, or pollution, comes with the blessings of the government.

There are a LOT of ways this can be addressed, and talking about them is a good thing. From water quality, which plays a huge role, to harvesting practices, to personal responsibility. As a person, well, I don't fertilize my lawn for one, and rarely keep fish. I've kept 1 flounder in the last 4 years, and keep maybe a couple of pups a year. Those are fish that are legal, but deep hooked and bleeding. Circle hooks help, but not all the time. I catch my own bait, shrimp, and crabs.
I know a couple gill netters on the Albemarle, and they use whatever they bring in. They are not coms doing it for a living, but make a couple bucks and feed their families. The stocking thing seemed like a no brainer as it basically sustains many fresh water fisheries.
I am not looking for this to be the same argument that was going on in June when the shark bites started. Everyone turns and points to the supposed bad guy. Pretty soon, there is nobody left. I think Jam was dead on with that one.
Something has to be done though. And it only takes 1 picture of a dead turtle in a net to remove decades of good that has been done. And imagery is more powerful today than ever. 1 lion brought most of the country to the point of wanting to tar and feather a guy who thought he was doing a legal hunt. If someone has an agenda (say, depopulating the OBX and wanting it as a preserve), it would be incredibly easy to use a couple anecdotal events to get attention by BIG money groups that see nature the same way they do (Agenda 21).
I am hoping for many reasons that that is not how this ends.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

pods said:


> Well, not to be a dick, but since when does concern for a resource that is shared by all lead to first being called a "wacko" and then being threatened by the "fellas in white boots?"
> I an under no impression that coms are raking it big (unless they are foreign poachers offshore or you happen to be attached to a large corporation that writes the quota laws for say, menhaden). The take by those are even not that great.
> But there is serious pressure on our fisheries. I want my son, who is learning to take a fish by jig, to be able to teach his son that art as well.
> 
> ...


Actually referencing threats from the fellas in the white boots, is actually the other way around the posters in this thread seeking to end commercial fishing in NC. Them fellas fishing the Pamlico and Atlantic this morning are all out on the water right now, I know a few of them that have never sat in front of a computer, I am just siding with they as they are my friends and I am behind the island and when I am on it I am treated by them as one of their own, and I will all ways look after my own....

I was just stating a fact, about riding around Hatteras with sign on your truck seeking to end commercial fishing and the probable outcomes, you took it as a personal threat, don't want the drama then don't put the bumper sticker on your truck and seek to change the laws in Raleigh in Washington DC.

Anyway right or wrong there are opposing views on the subject as to who the waters and the fish swimming in belong to, but asking one side to give up everything they have been born into so the other can have playtime seems a little off the mark to me. 

The biggest money group in NC is all of us and somewhere along the way a compromise has to take place, spend the money from licensing on new salt water hatcheries, not more Rangers with AR15's riding around in 2015 Tahoes up and down the beach, guarding three Plovers and one Oystercatcher. Buy out Omega just like they did with the tobacco farmers, have commercial fishing licenses available only to those who actually fish full time 4 or more months a year, instead of recs with licenses seeking to expand their personal bag limits. Make the pig and chicken farmer move to Cambodia and Vietnam and make them ruin someone else's watershed. Tax waterfront homes at ten times the amount as inland homes due to the tax dollars directed in keeping sand in front of them. Close every season to catch and release for the next four years on every State on the Eastern Seaboard. Eat only Bologna and ban canned Tuna. Pay the Shrimpers to sit at the dock every other year, they can take tourists out on family crabbing trips on the off years.

Maybe then you can find some 18" Flounder.


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## don brinson (Apr 8, 2011)

Every fishery seems to be in trouble.Back in the 70's kings were everywhere.Now even the spots numbers are down.Drum seem to be one of the few that are up.Because of good management? Hard to say. Be hard not agree that it has helped.Don't want to put anybody out of work. But better manament of our resourses is a no brainer to me.Even up here in Michigan the king Salmon population is down 75%.People are saying its because the Elwy baitfish are all but gone due to the Zebra Mussel cleaning up the great lakes by sucking the nutritients out of the water.So better management of native resourse and better control of invasive species. Got find something that works for everyone, rec and comm.


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## dlpetrey (Oct 30, 2013)

"Got find something that works for everyone, rec and comm." -don brinson

Exactly.

I don't think anyone on this thread wants to shut commercial fisherman down. They are as integral to our great state's heritage as the obx themselves. For whatever reason, the fishery does indeed seem to be off and not improving. Is this anecdotal? Perhaps. Most of us go by that which we've experienced. We don't have the time or resources to conduct exhaustive studies. But I guarantee you this...EVERY SINGLE PERSON I've talked to who has fished the obx for years and years, without exception, testify that the fishery ain't what it used to be. 

Do I live down there? No. I'm 7 hours away in the mountains. Have I had some good fishing trips down there. At times, yes. Most times, not really. Truthfully I, like most I suspect, don't go to fill a cooler. I go because as a lifelong native of North Carolina part of my heritage is surf fishing at Hatteras, Portsmouth, Cape Lookout, etc. and I love nothing more than watching the sun come up on the beach with my heaver sitting in a sand spike. I want my three young daughters to have the same experiences available to them. It doesn't make any difference that they, like me, were born and raised in the mountains of western NC.

So I guess I say all that to say, there are thousands of us out here who, even though we don't live close to the obx, care very deeply about the quality of the fishery and ecosystem. We also, ALSO, care deeply about the "men in white boots" who earn their living from the water. 

So what is the answer? Frankly I don't know. Communication is a key. Let's find ways to work with everyone involved to protect and preserve. The slot limit, etc. seems to work well with drum. Perhaps that's a start. Self policing is a key. Don't keep more than you can eat. That kind of stuff. More than anything get involved. Go to the meetings in Raleigh. It's a long drive from Boone, but I went. This is what it will take. Not only for our beloved surf fishing but also hunting and freshwater fishing.

I know that's a lot of rambling. Sorry. But, in my opinion, if we sit on the sidelines, my fear is that one day we will look back and have nothing left but great memories. If my concern for our shared resource makes me a "wacko" then I stand accused.


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## gshivar (Aug 29, 2006)

dlpetrey. No wacko!!. Very well said! thanks - glenn


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## Bullred (Mar 13, 2010)

Heritage. Grandpa did it so will I. Cycles, pollution, runoff, more rec fishermen etc. Same old bull **** different day.


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## dlpetrey (Oct 30, 2013)

Thanks for your well thought-out and enlightening post Bullred. I'm honestly not sure how to take it. However, if you fail to realize the tremendous sporting heritage we have as residents of the great state of North Carolina then I feel sorry for you. Although, now that I think about it, your handle here leads me to believe you may not be from around these parts. Best regards to you.


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