# Shock leader



## The Crew (Jul 8, 2007)

Went to my local tackle shop to pick up some 50 or 60# mono to use as a shock lead. They convinced me to go with braid saying:
1) Smaller diameter makes for smaller knot going through the guides on take-off.

2)Since its only a short shot you can change it out with each fishing trip, it should not be affected by abrasion enough in a single 6-8hr day to break under tension.

Sounded reasonable to me so I bought 150yds of 65# (16# diameter) to use on 14lb mono.

What do ya think?


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## HellRhaY (Jul 6, 2007)

i'd still go with mono as shock leader.
mono also gives you that stretch during a strong hit, and a place to grab when you have a fish on.

i dont care what they say about abrasion resistance, but when braid rubs against the sand, and you happen to hook up a ncie fish....goodluck.

that's just me. everyone has his opinion.


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

I dunno. Mono is flexable. It expands under load and helps absorb the power of the cast.

Braid doesn't do that.

Braid doesn't do well with abraision resistence, either. Mono is better with handlin' a sand bar and even a brush with a piling. 

I know some use braid for shock. 

I'm just not one of them.


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## DERFM (Jun 19, 2004)

Newsjeff said:


> I dunno. Mono is flexable. It expands under load and helps absorb the power of the cast.
> 
> Braid doesn't do that.
> 
> ...


same here; mono for shock 
another reason for mono ; grabbing the shock to man-handle a fish onto the beach , i sure don't want to do it with braid


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Mono for the shock, you will be glad you did. Or just let me know what you think of that braid shock after you snap the tips on a couple of your rods.


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## The Crew (Jul 8, 2007)

That was ICE Cold...don't worry. I am going for the mono, I have my concerns too. Lets just say I got burned and I knew better.

http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43836



AirDown said:


> Mono for the shock, you will be glad you did. Or just let me know what you think of that braid shock after you snap the tips on a couple of your rods.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Nothing but love for ya my brother. Good choice, I have seen that braid shock in action. Not a pretty site.


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## Teddy (May 14, 2006)

*Mono*

If your not using braid to begin with why change just for the shocker? Good salesman that guy .


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## powerburn (Jun 26, 2007)

i have never used a shock leader. I have 20# mono throwing 4-6oz wieght, and i have only had one break off mid cast in 5 outings this year, mabey im not throwing it as hard as i should be. I would think that the knot going through the guides would significantly cut down on casting distance? I do agree with the fact that a nice shock leader can be used to haul a fish out of the surf.


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## Hawk (Feb 19, 2004)

Not going to lose much distance in a fishing situation by using a shocker.
You will however, have the possibility of losing a fishing buddy should you snap off a pyramid into his forehead.
It's as much about safety as is is for other reasons.


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## The Crew (Jul 8, 2007)

Hawk said:


> Not going to lose much distance in a fishing situation by using a shocker.
> You will however, have the possibility of losing a fishing buddy should you snap off a pyramid into his forehead.
> It's as much about safety as is is for other reasons.


Definitely. That's pretty funny Hawk!


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

MONO, MONO, MONO, for shock leaders...

And to the guy throwing 6 oz. with 20#....Please learn to use a proper shock leader. Even if you are not a strong caster, you still need it. 

I'm not joking when I tell you that you are just begging to hurt someone badly...Maybe even graveyard bad.

And you WILL be liable...


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

powerburn said:


> i have never used a shock leader. I have 20# mono throwing 4-6oz wieght, and i have only had one break off mid cast in 5 outings this year, mabey im not throwing it as hard as i should be. I would think that the knot going through the guides would significantly cut down on casting distance? I do agree with the fact that a nice shock leader can be used to haul a fish out of the surf.


You can get away with it for fishing small pan fish but if you like to put a little arse into your cast I would caution otherwise. When you snap that spinning rod you are putting A LOT of pressure on that 20# section of line ... much more than a fish would. Using a shock will cut down on the ... Cast ... Snap Crackle Pop then chuckle chuckle scenario.

Your last 5-10 yards of line are also what takes the most abuse from the underwater terrain. A 40-50# leader will take much more abuse than 20#.

Then there is the part of hauling the fish out of the water. Once you get a big 26"+ fish near and you don't have a net (or you are in the surf) the full effect of that fishes weight and power will be put on that line when you are lifting it out of the water. If you are on the beach you will be putting more force on the line because you are literally dragging the fish against an abrasive surface (sand) causing even more pressure. 

Once you learn to tie a good shock knot you will see that it has no little to no effect on casting. Besides fishing is not all about how far you can cast ... most fish are usually right under your nose


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## powerburn (Jun 26, 2007)

practiced tying shock to main line. Used 50# mono to the 20# with a albright knot. I am suprised at how small the knot is, very streamline. THanks for the help.


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

powerburn said:


> practiced tying shock to main line. Used 50# mono to the 20# with a albright knot. I am suprised at how small the knot is, very streamline. THanks for the help.



Right on!!! 

Pay no attention to the "Gotta use a Bimini Twist" crap that is bound to pop up here....

A well tied Albright sure is a pretty thing, and will serve you well...


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## greybeard (Nov 9, 2004)

I have a question. Has anybody on this forum ever seen or heard of someone being killed by a fishing sinker? I have never heard of it or heard of dangerous breakoffs until I started reading this board. And No but it could happen isn't really a good answer. No space aliens have killed anybody that we know of but it could happen.


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

How about a sinker through a Truck radiator!!


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## greybeard (Nov 9, 2004)

That wasn't the question and what happens throwing stuff on grass with as thin a line and as hard of a cast as possible doesn't equate to fishing.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

AirDown said:


> Nothing but love for ya my brother. Good choice, I have seen that braid shock in action. Not a pretty site.


Never seen anyone killed. What I did see 2 years ago New Years Eve on Coquinta Beach was a 5oz storm sinker break off of 17# Tri. and hit a guy in the back. As the sinker climbed up his back it laid it open like you were using a fillet knife. I helped pack it for the trip to the med center. Had that been a head shot it *WOULD* have fatal I'm sure. This guy was back 5 hours later to get his truck with 32 stiches.

Please think about the fisher-people and kids around you....Use The Proper Shock Leader...


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## toejam (Jan 28, 2005)

A picture is worth........











This guy didn't die , but you can see what a fishing lead can do traveling at high speeds.. If the lead had been a little higher i would venture to say that he would be pushing daisys...All it is going to take is for one innocent bystander to be killed by a surf fisher and untold number of beaches will ban fishing...... And its not that big a thing to prevent,,, the hardest thing is to learn how to tie a good small knot to the shock leader.....Be carefull out people..... the life you save may be my grand child.


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## FishinMortician (Jun 19, 2007)

I have seen an x-ray picture showing a sinker lodged in a man's eyesocket. UGLY STUFF.

I have lost rigs and know not where they went.

The first time I tried a shock leader it about took the tip off my rod. Then... I learned how to tie a decent knot, and have never looked back.

All my rods are able to cast at distance, it is like another tool in my fishing arsenal. I can't imagine power casting without a heavy shock leader.


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## The Crew (Jul 8, 2007)

No actually I have not...BUT since I've been on here I've picked up and started using a few of the POWER casts AND have had some breakoffs. At first I thought I could get by with 3oz lead on my 8' rod with 15# mono, but it snapped right off. So yeah, it is VERY possible. Grey, I wouldn't discount the things you learn here. Ask yourself why do soooo many people do it? The things I've learned have been TREMENDOUSLY helpful. I am light years from where I used to be, with SOOO much CONFIDENCE.



greybeard said:


> I have a question. Has anybody on this forum ever seen or heard of someone being killed by a fishing sinker? I have never heard of it or heard of dangerous breakoffs until I started reading this board. And No but it could happen isn't really a good answer. No space aliens have killed anybody that we know of but it could happen.


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## HellRhaY (Jul 6, 2007)

greybeard said:


> I have a question. Has anybody on this forum ever seen or heard of someone being killed by a fishing sinker? I have never heard of it or heard of dangerous breakoffs until I started reading this board. And No but it could happen isn't really a good answer. No space aliens have killed anybody that we know of but it could happen.


haven't heard of anyone dying..........yet.
but even if you dont die, do you want to be hit by a sinker on a powercast? it sure can inflict some damage, do you want to be in the receiving end of the sinker?

giving them advise of using a shock leader goes both ways, for the caster and the people around.
i bet if a sinker breaks and hit someone there'll be a ton of "ambulance chasers".


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## greybeard (Nov 9, 2004)

You guys keep talking powercasts. I use mostly daiwa eliminators and my longest rod is ten ft. I would break my equipment trying those type of casts. I lob my bait out there cause I hate to sling bait off the hook. It just seemed to me that the biggest soap box on this site is dedicated to shock leaders and I had never heard of anybody being injured seriously or killed by a sinker. Of course it could happen. Could get zapped by space aliens too.


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## The Crew (Jul 8, 2007)

Serveral questions.
1. Have you never snapped your line during a cast?

2. How often do you change your line? If infrequently then how do you tell if the line strength has degraded to the point your next cast would snap off the line?

3. What size sinkers do you use?

4. What do you have against using shock leaders?





greybeard said:


> You guys keep talking powercasts. I use mostly daiwa eliminators and my longest rod is ten ft. I would break my equipment trying those type of casts. I lob my bait out there cause I hate to sling bait off the hook. It just seemed to me that the biggest soap box on this site is dedicated to shock leaders and I had never heard of anybody being injured seriously or killed by a sinker. Of course it could happen. Could get zapped by space aliens too.


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## greybeard (Nov 9, 2004)

1. already answered.

2. quite often

3. mostly 4 oz and under occasionally a 6.

4. knots in my main line. I will change a whole spool to keep from knotting my main line.


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## The Crew (Jul 8, 2007)

greybeard said:


> 4. knots in my main line. I will change a whole spool to keep from knotting my main line.


Roger that. I hear change is harder for older guys.  Just giving you a hard time. As for me I want to get some "Power" in my casts and I only sling bait off once in a while, when I don't hook it properly.


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

I use mono for shock leader material. Its ment to give a little when casting weight and bait and to give a little when a fish hits your rig. 

Braid has no stretch with little to no give.

Think about it


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## HellRhaY (Jul 6, 2007)

BigEdD said:


> I hear change is harder for older guys.


why r you calling him OLD BigEd?
Suddenly my back and my knees are beginning to hurt.


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## The Crew (Jul 8, 2007)

HellRhaY said:


> why r you calling him OLD BigEd?
> Suddenly my back and my knees are beginning to hurt.


Cause my knees hurt and my feet hurt and I've got a pain in my elbow and my back gets strained every now and then. I am old enough to joke with us old guys! lol.:fishing:

Oh, yeah and there's more grey in my beard than black!


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## Mahi Mahi Mike (Jul 24, 2007)

In the reading that I've done in various books and online forums, I've come across a general rule of thumb that states the size (lb test) of your shock leader should be 10 lbs for every oz of weight cast. So, if you're slinging 5 oz of total weight, you should use a 50 lb test shock leader.

50 lb test seems to be a common size for shock leaders on these boards. Other than 80 lb and 130 lb test Bite Leaders I've read about, I haven't noticed anyone mention using mono shock leaders greater than 50 lb test.

I totally understand the safety and performance reasons for using a properly sized shock leader and I want to make sure that I'm using the correct size shock leader for a given situation. Using the example above, if you're slinging 8 'n Bait, would you use an 80 lb test or greater Shock Leader? Is this overkill in this situation? Would a lower rated shock leader such as 50 lb test be sufficient?


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## The Crew (Jul 8, 2007)

*Mahi*

No buddy, you got it right. 10lbs for every ounce. So you should be using 80lb for 8oz.


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

BigEdD said:


> 10lbs for every ounce. So you should be using 80lb for 8oz.


That rule of thumb is just that ... a rule of thumb.

Ya don't need more than a 60lb shock, even with 12oz and bait.

I use 40lb. 

Most use 50lb.


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## Hawk (Feb 19, 2004)

#50 is plenty heavy for 8-10oz and bait.
I can't think of anyone that I know that uses heavier than that. Some of them can really bomb it out there too. Larger than #50 will give trouble on the knot size through the average guide setup.

NJ: I have reached the point that if I have to use 12, I'm not having fun.


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## patindaytona (Jun 17, 2006)

*Shock Knots*

I tried a 50lb.shock leader today first time. I used a double uni knot. It did not work. I had to resume fishing with my main line of 15lb. and 5oz.
I know it was the knot that got caught up in the eyelets, but also think some of it was the 50lb. shock coiling up before leaving my rod. Going to see if a albright knot works as last resort.


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

Hawk said:


> NJ: I have reached the point that if I have to use 12, I'm not having fun.


I hear ya. 

It's usually during the Wheeler Tourny.

On Pea Island.

With no coffee or beer. :beer:


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## notso (Jul 18, 2005)

BigEdD said:


> No buddy, you got it right. 10lbs for every ounce. So you should be using 80lb for 8oz.


In fishing situations, I think there are VERY few people who can generate enough force to break 50 casting, if it's in good shape. I suppose if folks were using a full on pendelum cast fishing then it might happen more often. The couple times I've seen people doing that, I ducked & went the other way. I have never broken 50, but I have broken several of those plastic " sinker sliders"(don't use them anymore). Maybe someday, my casting will progress to the point where I need to use more than 50, but it hasn't happened yet.


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## beachman (Apr 27, 2007)

patindaytona said:


> I tried a 50lb.shock leader today first time. I used a double uni knot. It did not work. I had to resume fishing with my main line of 15lb. and 5oz.
> I know it was the knot that got caught up in the eyelets, but also think some of it was the 50lb. shock coiling up before leaving my rod. Going to see if a albright knot works as last resort.


 I have, for quite awhile, been using Neil Mckellow's knot and have no problem. It's easy to tie. 50# shock to15# BG


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## lipyanker (May 31, 2006)

it just feels like i get a lot more out of a cast when i have my 50lb mono shock leader as opposed to a braid leader which i tried early this spring.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

greybeard said:


> I have a question. Has anybody on this forum ever seen or heard of someone being killed by a fishing sinker? I have never heard of it or heard of dangerous breakoffs until I started reading this board. And No but it could happen isn't really a good answer. No space aliens have killed anybody that we know of but it could happen.


 Nope,not YEAT.. Did see this though.. Rodanthe Pier,NC 1986.. A friend of mine was getting ready to cast,he yelled "heads",which is the common warning that someone is getting ready to cast.. One or two of the folks ducked down beside the railing.. Well he was in the middle of the launch when kapow!! The sinker launched about 3' off the deck and straight at one of the guys kneeled down by the railing.. He instantly fell to the deck and was shuttering like a shot goose.. Blood was streaming from his head.. We called the emergency squad,and he was taken out on a stretcher.. They stitched his head and he was out on the planks the next day with the bandage around his head.. Had the sinker been two inches futher back it would have hit him in the temple..Imho,had that happened it WOULD HAVE BEEN LIGHTS OUT PERMINATE!!
My friend's shock had a fray in it just above the knot,bluefish or something.. Well it almost cost the guy his life.. Have always used shock,and because of this I check for frays on every cast..


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## terpfan (May 30, 2002)

Newsjeff said:


> That rule of thumb is just that ... a rule of thumb.
> 
> Ya don't need more than a 60lb shock, even with 12oz and bait.
> 
> ...


i use braid shock leader rated 100-150#. i was just at AI yesterday and was out of my braid leader. so i used 50# mono and with 6oz bait, and it would snap, if i used full force during the cast. (using 14' zziplex primo synchro)


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## Mahi Mahi Mike (Jul 24, 2007)

terpfan said:


> i use braid shock leader rated 100-150#. i was just at AI yesterday and was out of my braid leader. so i used 50# mono and with 6oz bait, and it would snap, if i used full force during the cast. (using 14' zziplex primo synchro)


Hi terpfan,

When your 50 lb snapped, did it snap in the middle of the line or at a knot?

It sounds like if you have the right rod and you load it up to full potential, you can induce a break off.


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## terpfan (May 30, 2002)

Mahi Mahi Mike said:


> Hi terpfan,
> 
> When your 50 lb snapped, did it snap in the middle of the line or at a knot?
> 
> It sounds like if you have the right rod and you load it up to full potential, you can induce a break off.


it was at middle of the line. although i did not see the breakoff, it felt like the sinker went straight up. i use unitech/brighton cast. it generate extreme amount of force in split second, where shock leader is more prone to breakoff, especially when using longer stiffer rod.


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## terpfan (May 30, 2002)

one bad thing about using braid shock over 100lbs is it not very forgiving to mistakes. i literally destroyed 4 reels into piece. also lost a fingernail and my ringfinger is crooked because of casting accident.


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## greybeard (Nov 9, 2004)

1986 on a crowded fishing pier. You guys are reaching for straws.


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## bjake (Jul 25, 2007)

Don,t carry lead larger than 3 oz. or use rods longer than 9' or line under 15 lb. for throwing bait,don't use a shock and have never sent lead flying without a line with it.Have had Kastmasters and Krocodiles go flying by themselves using 10 lb. line so I know it can happen and be dangerous.Have learned to check line and retie more often and haven't lost anything in the last 25 years.
Jake


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

greybeard said:


> That wasn't the question and what happens throwing stuff on grass with as thin a line and as hard of a cast as possible doesn't equate to fishing.


The line used over grass is usually about 12lb test (.31mm) and the shockleader is usually 60 lb test (.75mm). 

I would rather be in the vicinity of a guy on the field with an established safety zone and fresh shockleader than out on the beach beside a guy throwing 6 or 8 oz and a hunk of bunker without a shockleader. 

I'd rather take my chances with the space aliens..... 

8 oz of lead will kill ya.

Tommy


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## greybeard (Nov 9, 2004)

What I see for answers comes down to it could happen. Sometime during the past twenty years or so a guy got a sinker in his eye socket, someone got a sinker in his radiator. and a couple of guys got hit and injured but were back out fishing in a short period of time. So in the P&B list of commandments are Thou shalt always use a shock leader. Of course the poor ignorant unenlightened souls who have the audacity to buy equipment at Walmart and Kmart and have never heard of this board (the vast majority of fisherman) will probably at some point in time kill someone with an errant sinker. Hasn't happened in the years that surf fishing has been in existance but it could. Now to put this in perspective. I have nothing against being safe but I get tired of the constant "Do what we say because we are the know all end all of fishing" that comes up whenever someone challenges the norm on here.


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## Black Beard (Jan 25, 2001)

patindaytona said:


> I tried a 50lb.shock leader today first time. I used a double uni knot. It did not work. I had to resume fishing with my main line of 15lb. and 5oz.
> I know it was the knot that got caught up in the eyelets, but also think some of it was the 50lb. shock coiling up before leaving my rod. Going to see if a albright knot works as last resort.


Try this one, it's pretty much the standard in the UK and easy to tie:- 

http://neilmackellow.sea-angler.org/knot5.html

When I go to the beach to sling lead, test rods, tune reels etc I AWAYS USE an 80LB MONO shock leader.

Fresh mono is fine - for a while, 'cos after a while it's no longer fresh. As soon as you start it dragging over the seabed bad things start to happen to it!

And yes I am using a full pendulum most of the time with a plain lead.

For fishing with up to 5oz I use 50lb - 0.65mm - for 8oz I use 60lb - 0.75mm and check it before every cast.

If you had ever seen the of integration of flesh, bone and lead you may be a little more circumspect when selecting a leader.

BB


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## The Crew (Jul 8, 2007)

Mr. Greybeard - I believe you are wrong. There are still your WEEKEND warriors who fish OCCASSIONALLY. But there are many, many boards out there this one has 7,000, one of the most popular has 17,000. I know the guys out there MOST OFTEN are guys who are proabably apart of some board seeking knowledge and desiring not to remain in the shadow of darkness. Unlike some who see the light but because they are so set in there ways determine to remain... This post was started by me, trying to confirm what I already knew but was too gullible to stick to my guns. If you notice you are the only one who does not want to take the extra time or spend a little more money to be safe because you've never heard of anyone getting killed by lead and being seriously injured is not enough, they have to be pushing up daisies. I bet you IT has happened, just not such a BIG ENOUGH story to make the 6pm news.
Don't use a shock lead, you have that right, nobody is forcing it on you. Sounds like some guilt though if you pick on someone so fiercly because they do use one.



greybeard said:


> What I see for answers comes down to it could happen. Sometime during the past twenty years or so a guy got a sinker in his eye socket, someone got a sinker in his radiator. and a couple of guys got hit and injured but were back out fishing in a short period of time. So in the P&B list of commandments are Thou shalt always use a shock leader. Of course the poor ignorant unenlightened souls who have the audacity to buy equipment at Walmart and Kmart and have never heard of this board (the vast majority of fisherman) will probably at some point in time kill someone with an errant sinker. Hasn't happened in the years that surf fishing has been in existance but it could. Now to put this in perspective. I have nothing against being safe but I get tired of the constant "Do what we say because we are the know all end all of fishing" that comes up whenever someone challenges the norm on here.


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## Yeah nah (Jun 14, 2007)

Greybeard ....... Your  if you think that just because it hasnt happened to you or been frt page news it hasent happened .

You have some of the most respected men in the world of distence casting saying that you need a shock leader but you still persist with your wrong thinking.

Its russian roulete as to when it does happen when using no or light shockleaders.

I use a tapered shockleader 18lb to 70lb makes for a very nice small knot to the main 12lb line

A 6oz sinker travelling at @300ft a second will hit with something like @2500ft lbs of force .


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*I use 60lbs mono shock leader*

and will never fish along side GreyBeard. The man has no respect for a human life.


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

greybeard said:


> What I see for answers comes down to it could happen. Sometime during the past twenty years or so a guy got a sinker in his eye socket, someone got a sinker in his radiator. and a couple of guys got hit and injured but were back out fishing in a short period of time. So in the P&B list of commandments are Thou shalt always use a shock leader. Of course the poor ignorant unenlightened souls who have the audacity to buy equipment at Walmart and Kmart and have never heard of this board (the vast majority of fisherman) will probably at some point in time kill someone with an errant sinker. Hasn't happened in the years that surf fishing has been in existance but it could. Now to put this in perspective. I have nothing against being safe but I get tired of the constant "Do what we say because we are the know all end all of fishing" that comes up whenever someone challenges the norm on here.


As you said, the VAST majority of fishermen are "weekend warriors" with Shakespeare Tiger combos from Wal-Mart. They fish a couple of weekends a year...The chances of them hurting or killing someone ARE very slim, because their rods/casting techniques are not generating any power. That's good enough for the "white rodders", they are happy, and God bless 'em. 

When and if you get to the point that your fishing is "serious" enough to buy "real" fishing rods, and learn to "powercast" it is your RESPONSIBILITY to do it safely. No other option.

The "serious" fishermen make literally THOUSANDS of hard casts per year, as opposed to dozens of lobs for the "white rodders" and the reason you never hear of any real injures, is that we are doing it safely, WITH SHOCK LEADERS.

If you are using 15#, throwing 6 oz., and not breaking off, then you are not gonna hurt anyone, because you're not generating any power. 

All it'll take is one crack-off, that you have no idea where it went, and you'll change your mind.

Nobody pays attention to balls when they are playing Putt-Putt, but nobody stands ten feet in front of the tee on the driving range, either...


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## HellRhaY (Jul 6, 2007)

greybeard said:


> Of course the poor ignorant unenlightened souls who have the audacity to buy equipment at Walmart and Kmart and have never heard of this board (the vast majority of fisherman) will probably at some point in time kill someone with an errant sinker. Hasn't happened in the years that surf fishing has been in existance but it could.


_the poor ignorant unenlightened souls who have the audacity to buy equipment at Walmart and Kmart and have never heard of this board_ dont know how to power cast! they are tourist weekend'ers. Show me a fisherman who buys his "tiger combo" from walmart who does a pendulum or an OTG to get their baits 100-150 yards out. 

And even you admitted you don't powercast, you said you "LOB" your bait out there. THAT'S FINE. "LOBBING" doesnt put to much stress on your running line. 

When i fish the jetty, i don't use a shock leader. my running line is 20# with an 8 ounces weight. But i "LOB" my bait out there, i don't hit it with force compared to when i'm fishing in the surf.


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

*My MAN*



greybeard said:


> 1986 on a crowded fishing pier. You guys are reaching for straws.



Hopefully, you are just bored and trying to stir things up.


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## RockhopperUK (Jul 13, 2005)

surffshr said:


> Hopefully, you are just bored and trying to stir things up.


either that or his nurse turned her back for a few minutes

Tom.


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## greybeard (Nov 9, 2004)

Well you have to admit I did get a rise out of a lot of you. Sorry Ed that I hijacked your post. I guess if I decide to buy a "real fishing rod" instead of the inferior junk that I use, I might reconsider. As for fishing along side me you won't. I don't like to fish crowded conditions. If someone horns in on me I leave. Oh yeah, none of my surf rods are white. Was I right about the holier than thou attitude? Look at some of the replies and you decide.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

greybeard said:


> Well you have to admit I did get a rise out of a lot of you. Sorry Ed that I hijacked your post. I guess if I decide to buy a "real fishing rod" instead of the inferior junk that I use, I might reconsider. As for fishing along side me you won't. I don't like to fish crowded conditions. If someone horns in on me I leave. Oh yeah, none of my surf rods are white. Was I right about the holier than thou attitude? Look at some of the replies and you decide.


THere is no room for disagreement when it comes to safety- if everyone were to quit using shockleaders today the hospital and morgue would be very busy tomorrow. At least for awhile until fishing was banned because people decided to be morons and throw safety out the window.

And I don't think its funny that you choose human safety as an issue to push buttons.

I don't care if you buy cheaper stuff, use whatever you like but your insistance that shock leader isn't necessary is way off base. OF course you are going to upset folks and get chastised when you act like you don't have to be concerned for others safety.

This isn't about braid vs mono or anything else that we love to debate to no end- it's about safety, and your lack of concern for it is appalling. :--|

Does someone HAVE to be pronounced dead before you are willing to admit your wrong ? What would you say to that persons family ?


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## The Crew (Jul 8, 2007)

I don't think any came with that attitude, but you did question our use of shock leads and we responded. Then you said we were morons for using it and when you take that step obviously you'll get a fight. Obviously you had no interest in this thread other than to pick a fight because you fish by yourself and lob your bait out there. Now you're trying to feel justified by saying we had a "holier than thou attitude" hogwash. Keep on fishing grey we love ya, just warn us that you're not using a leader and we will move.



greybeard said:


> Well you have to admit I did get a rise out of a lot of you. Sorry Ed that I hijacked your post. I guess if I decide to buy a "real fishing rod" instead of the inferior junk that I use, I might reconsider. As for fishing along side me you won't. I don't like to fish crowded conditions. If someone horns in on me I leave. Oh yeah, none of my surf rods are white. Was I right about the holier than thou attitude? Look at some of the replies and you decide.


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*Some people*

only lob. 

And Clinton didn't inhale.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Orest said:


> only lob.
> 
> And Clinton didn't inhale.


yeah, a number of years ago I bought my first budget set up and hit the surf without the foggiest idea of what a shockleader was. Spooled up with 20 lb mono and tied on a 4 oz bottom rig and let fly-- KAPOW- crackoff on first cast- followed by another- 

ya don't have to be a strong caster or experienced for that matter- it doesn't take a casting champion to snap thin line. Everyone of those guys descending on the beach with there new gear- minus a shock leader is a potential hazard. At least if they haven't visited a site or never heard of shock leader it's hard to blame them for not knowing better. But someone that is warned and tosses caution to the wind- no excuses, no "noone ever warned me" defense for them.


To address the issue on why most of us don't need 80 lb test for 8 oz of lead- we start to reach a point where we can't physically cast a heavy lead with as much speed as a lighter lead- the speed of the lead during casting dictates how much the shock leader stretches- enough speed and the leader will stretch to the breaking point- just like a rubber band. 

Most of us are safe with a maximum of 60 lb test because of the limited amount of speed we can generate with heavier weights. 

I personally don't go above 50lb test for shock leader when fishing, but will check for frays and retie when necessary- daily each morning as a minimum- repeated casts will eventually weaken knots- you may not be able to visually see this- so retie often.


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## The Crew (Jul 8, 2007)

Surf Cat said:


> repeated casts will eventually weaken knots- you may not be able to visually see this- so retie often.


Didn't think about that, but that's great advise. Thanks Surf!


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## Carolina Rebel (Aug 25, 2005)

Greybeard, if you know any serious surf fishermen you know the vast majority aren't the "Oh so and so's doing it so it must be right!" type. New equipment and techniques take a little while to take hold. Just like you these guys tend to be hard set in their ways, heck just look at what happens when the subject of braided line comes up. Here you have a big number of guys with lord knows how much combined experience conveying to you that its common sense to use a shock leader. Not one person is disagreeing with the notion that you should be using one, save for yourself and that really should tell you something. 
I haven't been surf fishing for very long, and five years ago I had no idea what a shock leader or a uni knot was. I distinctly remember days then when 3, 4, 5 ounces wouldn't hold bottom so I'd start combining small pyramid sinkers. A couple broken rods and an untold number of breakoffs later I got on this site and began learning, and now there are few days I can't fish due to current and I have no problem chucking a shock leader as far as I'll ever need for fishing. Its really not that hard to learn, and the benefits of using a shock leader are multi-faceted and numerous. Until you start using a shocker, if you're chunking 4 ounces or more, even if you're just lobbing, fish away from myself, my equipment, and my truck. Shit happens, and the least you can do is take some very mundane precautions to stop it.


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## greybeard (Nov 9, 2004)

I sure didn't call anyone moron. Touron is the word used so often on this forum and it ain't me using it. I have never had a breakoff that didn't go in the direction of casting and also the only time that happens is when I cast with a fouled line either at the tip of the rod or reel during low light conditions. I asked a question. Has anyone seen or heard of anyone getting killed by a fishing lead? The answer was no but it could happen. There were 4 instances cited, (one from 1985) where some damage was done to people and a radiator. Anybody making a power cast from a crowded pier with or without shock leader is asking for trouble. Of course you guys started mentioning 15 lb test line. I have never used anything lighter than 20 in the surf. 30 on my braid reels. I don't know what a bunker is. I use mostly shrimp which always gets casted off if you get rambunctious when casting and if I want to catch bluefish or sharks I use cut bait. My longest fishing rod is 10 ft. I use mostly my 8 ft. 4 oz is the max i use in the surf and 6 in the jetty currents. If it won't hold I go home.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

> At least for awhile until fishing was banned because people decided to be morons and throw safety out the window.





> I sure didn't call anyone moron


Neither did I - BUT- if people won't police themselves and show proper consideration for safety, they deserve to have their sport taken away from them- I don't need a statistic or a fatality to indictate to me that something is dangerous.

A lot of break offs that occur do so at the point of loading the rod- and travel sideways- down the beach - and are a potential hazard to anyone standing there. Being left handed I have had break offs travel directly to my left- for right handers the danger is directly to the right- depending in part on the style of cast employed.

I don't need to read someones obituary to understand this - and I DON'T want to read an obituary because someone decided for themselves it wasn't an issue!!


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## The Crew (Jul 8, 2007)

Well, went back and exchanged the braid for some #50 Ande, no problem. I also picked up some #1 Eagle Claw Laser Hooks (I used to love 'em).



BigEdD said:


> Went to my local tackle shop to pick up some 50 or 60# mono to use as a shock lead. They convinced me to go with braid saying:
> 1) Smaller diameter makes for smaller knot going through the guides on take-off.
> 
> 2)Since its only a short shot you can change it out with each fishing trip, it should not be affected by abrasion enough in a single 6-8hr day to break under tension.
> ...


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## The Crew (Jul 8, 2007)

*Absolutely Amazed*

Tied my first Albright knot. 50# to 14# Amazed at how tight that holds. It does not look that strong in the diagram. But its not going anywhere.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

greybeard said:


> What I see for answers comes down to it could happen. Sometime during the past twenty years or so a guy got a sinker in his eye socket, someone got a sinker in his radiator. and a couple of guys got hit and injured but were back out fishing in a short period of time. So in the P&B list of commandments are Thou shalt always use a shock leader. Of course the poor ignorant unenlightened souls who have the audacity to buy equipment at Walmart and Kmart and have never heard of this board (the vast majority of fisherman) will probably at some point in time kill someone with an errant sinker. Hasn't happened in the years that surf fishing has been in existance but it could. Now to put this in perspective. I have nothing against being safe but I get tired of the constant "Do what we say because we are the know all end all of fishing" that comes up whenever someone challenges the norm on here.


 I guess 10,000,000 or so surf fisherman are all wrong just because you say so? I think not. Maybe you have never heard of anyone being killed is because we do use shock leaders.

Honestly I think you are just full of :spam: and like stirring the pot.


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

There should be a website for shock leader offenders as there are sex offenders. Photos and all. GPS tracking device so we know where NOT to get within a 1/2mile of. Was talking to a well respected tourny caster a few weeks ago and he told me of an instance in which he measured a crack off at 1400'...if that puts any perspective into how much enursia *spell check * is in a hunka lead. 

Here I was thinking wisdom came standard issue with a greybeard


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## The Crew (Jul 8, 2007)

*My Wife*

has a co-worker who was on a boat with her husband fishing. She was standing in wrong place when he cast. The hook caught her right in the cheek of her face. She had to have the hook surgically removed. When you have a break off there's more than the sinker to worry about.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

TreednNC said:


> There should be a website for shock leader offenders as there are sex offenders. Photos and all. GPS tracking device so we know where NOT to get within a 1/2mile of. Was talking to a well respected tourny caster a few weeks ago and he told me of an instance in which he measured a crack off at 1400'...if that puts any perspective into how much enursia *spell check * is in a hunka lead.
> 
> Here I was thinking wisdom came standard issue with a greybeard


 This is hear say right


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## The Crew (Jul 8, 2007)

*Treednc*

THAT was FUNNY man!!! LOL LOL LOL LOL!
A Website with mug shots!



AirDown said:


> This is hear say right


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## Teddy (May 14, 2006)

I know fellas who easily toss 8nbait 120 yds off the beach. They all have at least a 50lb shocker that is then connected to a 80-100 lb short leader. They generate so much power from the cast that a 50 shocker breaks to often so they need to beef up to the 80-100 and still if they forget to check for frays or knot wear the heavier line gets blown. A 4-8 oz sinker coming at you at that speed will f uu up!! You might not die but I guarantee yu be Special......


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

AirDown said:


> This is hear say right


All fact


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

greybeard said:


> There were 4 instances cited, (one from 1985) where some damage was done to people and a radiator. Anybody making a power cast from a crowded pier with or without shock leader is asking for trouble.


 Actually the one instance I cited was the best one I could think of with the blood slingin and all.. I've seen it happen three times.. Once in a guy's back,rig and all,and once when it broke another rod that was on the pier railing...
The *main reason* I have only seen three is that when I'm in crowded situations,most folks have enough sense to use one to begin with.. All of the 3 times I saw it the folks DID HAVE SHOCK,but didn't check it for frays... 
When casting heavy lead,shock (or in the case of SGT who uses braid equivilent to shocker) is not optional,it is mandatory...


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## greybeard (Nov 9, 2004)

OK OK you are reading what you want to read. Tourney caster, otg, etc etc... these are alien terms to me. I don't do that stuff and I've said enough times that I don't fish in crowds. You people keep saying that. I don't fish from piers or on crowded beaches and I don't power cast. So I guess I'm a menace to society because I don't use shock leaders. Well so be it then. You stay away from me and I will reciprocate. Nuff said on this or anything else.


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## Clyde (Oct 18, 2003)

Safety is only one reason to use it Greybeard. If you happen to hook a big drum or whatever else is swimming around while your lobbing that shrimp in the wash, then you stand a much better chance of landing that fish of a lifetime if you're using a shock leader with a good knot. For one, it resists abrasion from rolling around in the wash over sand and shells, and two, when you happen to get that big fish close in, when you get a couple of wraps of the shock leader around the spool you'll feel much more comfortable pulling on that big ole thing and can put more pressure on it if need be. Safety is but one reason.


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

*Ok here's a question or two*

I understand why ya need a shock leader. My questions are these:

1- I'm using 17lb test on my 525's........, 
what pound test would be good for a shock leader?,........ keeping in mind I'm just starting out tossing coventional. 

2- I will probably use the Albright knot to tie line to line.......what brand of mono would be easier to tie with?

Any help would be be greatly appreciated. I'm startin to get frustrated so I need some help.


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

RuddeDogg said:


> I understand why ya need a shock leader. My questions are these:
> 
> 1- I'm using 17lb test on my 525's........,
> what pound test would be good for a shock leader?,........ keeping in mind I'm just starting out tossing coventional.
> ...


RD..

Shock size depends on weight...40# will be good thru about 5-6 oz. If I'm throwing 8 or more, I use 80#. I like Trilene Big Game or Ande.

A well tied Albright is a pretty thing, and will serve you well. 

A Bimini Twist IS NOT necessary, to catch fish...


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

*Thanks RR*

Just havin a hard time tying the knot. I got a great set of directions on how to tie off the net but I just cant seem to get the mono to cooperate. I was using 50lb Yo-zuri.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*80 #*

would be a biatch to tie making the conection less than more.. 50 IMHO is plenty just check it every cast.. Made it part of my mental check list to check each cast.. Part of the use of the " Cannon Ball" Rig provides more safty and abrasion resistance by the bottom 36 inches being 130 mono.. the mcmann rides the 130 and its less prone to breakoffs.. I don't believe that I have cracked one off due to nick in the lower section of line.. I switched to 80 # Seaguar Floro and have even less wear and tear then using 130 mono on the bottom section of the rig..Moi Moi makes a great 50 # that ties great and seaguar is well Seaguar.. Snelling with the floro can be weird but ya get used to it I snell with a nail knot.. Well this is a great topic and I am glad to see that almost 100% of you use some sort of shock line.. Wish you all would stay away from that braid stuff though.. I am less apt to jump down a grab someones fish for them.. Happened a few times last spring went down to help and saw braid all over the place.. Quite the mess .. Ain't gonna loose my digits .. JAM


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

RuddeDogg said:


> Just havin a hard time tying the knot. I got a great set of directions on how to tie off the net but I just cant seem to get the mono to cooperate. I was using 50lb Yo-zuri.


 Rudde Dogg,ya ever tie a spider hitch or triple surgeons?? Or no-name?? IMHO,ten times easier than an albright,and about as quick,even though you will be tieing two knots.. 
This "two knot" thing rubs some the wrong way,but through what I have seen and the knots I've pulled on testing,a double knot connection is that much better and worth the little extra effort..
I just wish you were here so I could show you just how easily an albright(not an improved albright mind ya) will break.. If you are convinced a single line connection is the way to go, try the slim beauty.. 

*JMO*

PS far as brands on shocker,try Trilene BG in clear.. Been using it for yrs with both bg and suffix running line,works super...


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## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

*There are some directions....*

I did in the bible of the albright with a few pictures...Hope it helps.

Also, When I use a shocker, Ive been using the 40# test for up to eight ounces. Ive been using the Cajun Red advantage copolymer with good results. Clnches a knot champ style. And its easy to see the red on top of the yellow at night.


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## The Crew (Jul 8, 2007)

Firespyder7 said:


> I did in the bible of the albright with a few pictures...Hope it helps.
> 
> Also, When I use a shocker, Ive been using the 40# test for up to eight ounces. Ive been using the Cajun Red advantage copolymer with good results. Clnches a knot champ style. And its easy to see the red on top of the yellow at night.


I am going to try that one next time.


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

*Never used one*

I have NEVER used a shock leader. Like I have said before I'm a spinning guy and even then I never used a shock leader. I have learned that ya really do need one. Now that I'm tossing the 525's I can see where it's a good thing. I'm just trying to get an easy knot that works to tie it on. Glad my life doesen't depend on it or I'd be screwed....... Guess I'll just keep on tryin.


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## The Crew (Jul 8, 2007)

Rudde, I think the Albright is pretty easy. Kind of tedious, but easy.



RuddeDogg said:


> I have NEVER used a shock leader. Like I have said before I'm a spinning guy and even then I never used a shock leader. I have learned that ya really do need one. Now that I'm tossing the 525's I can see where it's a good thing. I'm just trying to get an easy knot that works to tie it on. Glad my life doesen't depend on it or I'd be screwed....... Guess I'll just keep on tryin.


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

JAM said:


> I don't believe that I have cracked one off due to nick in the lower section of line.


Had it happen to me this Spring at Hatteras Inlet. 

If ya think that 130lb with a small nick in it won't break, think again. 

Just for the record, I've never had a break off throwin' 10oz and a head with a 40lb Tri shock. But that 40lb Tri has a breakin' strength well over 50lb ... .


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

RD the spiderhitch to noname is the way to go. Very quick and easy. Not to mention it is hard to break. Oh DD you are not the only one who pulls on then knots, be doing that for 30 or more years.


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## can't fish today (Oct 8, 2003)

I launched 3oz to China once with 17lb line. Oh, my brain tells me, you need to do what them guys said to do.

Shock leader all the way.


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## gilly21 (Feb 15, 2006)

RuddeDogg said:


> I have NEVER used a shock leader. Like I have said before I'm a spinning guy and even then I never used a shock leader. I have learned that ya really do need one. Now that I'm tossing the 525's I can see where it's a good thing. I'm just trying to get an easy knot that works to tie it on. Glad my life doesen't depend on it or I'd be screwed....... Guess I'll just keep on tryin.


Dogg,

You fish around some of my good buddys who are exclusive on the Uni/uni. Give it a shot 17 - 50 shock will bring you in any stripa swimmin. 

If you are going to stick to the Albright when you finish the knot wrap two loops inside the top loop to finish it off. much stronger and forgiving.


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## Freddrum (May 19, 2000)

*Agreed Greybeard*

We'll all stay away from you........even if you are just a "lobber" of course you might learn to catch more fish with a powered up cast but then since you know it all already and are unwilling to learn lets just leave it where it stands. Good luck to you sir.


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