# Advantages of wormgear levelewind in reels



## Guest (Nov 28, 2016)

After reading a few of Alan Hawk's reel takedowns I can't help but notice that most top-of-the-line reels use a wormgear levelwind like this (part #2):









I have taken apart low-end reels and they don't move the spool with a wormgear, just a crude arm mounted on a pivot like so:









My question is: why is a wormgear mechanically better than the arm/pivot arrangement?


----------



## BlaineO (Jan 22, 2001)

The worm gear/level wind mechanism allows the line lay to be much closer together than the simpler mechanical arrangement. Much more line can be put on the reel more consistently, it does not tend to lump at the top and bottom of the spool as much, this allows for smoother casting and greater line capacity. It also helps the drag to be smoother on fast running fish on some reels where the spool oscillates up and down as the line leaves the reel.


----------



## Guest (Nov 28, 2016)

BlaineO said:


> The worm gear/level wind mechanism allows the line lay to be much closer together than the simpler mechanical arrangement. Much more line can be put on the reel more consistently, it does not tend to lump at the top and bottom of the spool as much, this allows for smoother casting and greater line capacity. It also helps the drag to be smoother on fast running fish on some reels where the spool oscillates up and down as the line leaves the reel.


Thanks. That makes sense. It sounds like a winning design then. Does it have any disadvantage?


----------



## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

NW-Caster said:


> Does it have any disadvantage?


If the Pawl or Worm Gear wears out, you are without the ability to have line spool evenly on your reel. That Nylon gear in your pic might also be a weak point.


----------



## BlaineO (Jan 22, 2001)

The benefits far outweigh the detriments as long as you maintain the reel and don't abuse it.


----------



## ASK4Fish (May 4, 2005)

That small plastic idler gear is a sacrificial piece built into the reel to protect the more expensive worm gear. $3 part rather than $15 or more worm, and $3+ pawl, should the mechanism become jammed. Worms provide a more detailed line lay than an oscillating gear and slider, the latter is also more prone to wear quicker, however easier to service.


----------



## ASK4Fish (May 4, 2005)

Your granddaddy's 700 series Penn uses an oscillating set up and likely runs as smooth as it did the day it came out of the box, so materials and craftsmanship certainly play a role... Machined trumps cast any day, and you can't cast a worm... Sorry, 15+ years of reel repair service got me all chatty..


----------



## Guest (Nov 29, 2016)

ASK4Fish said:


> Your granddaddy's 700 series Penn uses an oscillating set up and likely runs as smooth as it did the day it came out of the box, so materials and craftsmanship certainly play a role... Machined trumps cast any day, and you can't cast a worm... Sorry, 15+ years of reel repair service got me all chatty..


My granddaddy did not use Penn reels. My father used Daiwa reels with worm drive, among others. Worm drive reels have been around since at least the 70s, maybe even before. I get how Penn markets its reels as some retro "pass-it-down-to-your-heirs" reel commanding a premium price. Not my cup of tea. A sound design stemming from human ingenuity, combined with quality craftmanship/materials scores better in my book than any perceived heritage and MBA-marketed and made-up sentimental value.

That being said I have some Penn reels. They fit a certain role and I like them for what they are.


----------



## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

NW-Caster said:


> I get how Penn markets its reels as some retro "pass-it-down-to-your-heirs" reel commanding a premium price.


That would be true of the 1st Gen, 2nd Gen (All Models), and 3rd Gen (6500SS & up ) Penn SS Spinfisher reels . . . The lower model munber 3rd Gen's ( 4200SS-5500SS with "Graphite" bodies), not so much. 4th Gen & 5th Gen are Chinese-made reels.

*http://imageuseful.com/which-penn-reels-are-made-in-china.html*

Tight Lines !


----------



## ASK4Fish (May 4, 2005)

NW-Caster said:


> My granddaddy did not use Penn reels. My father used Daiwa reels with worm drive, among others. Worm drive reels have been around since at least the 70s, maybe even before. I get how Penn markets its reels as some retro "pass-it-down-to-your-heirs" reel commanding a premium price. Not my cup of tea. A sound design stemming from human ingenuity, combined with quality craftmanship/materials scores better in my book than any perceived heritage and MBA-marketed and made-up sentimental value.
> 
> That being said I have some Penn reels. They fit a certain role and I like them for what they are.


My statement of what your seniors may or may not have used was simply a statement that choosing one line lay arrangement should go deeper than just, "worm is better than oscillating gear and slider". Not meant to bash, just stating that machined reel parts from that era were made much differently than the cast parts of today.


----------



## Carolina Rebel (Aug 25, 2005)

ASK4Fish said:


> Your granddaddy's 700 series Penn uses an oscillating set up and likely runs as smooth as it did the day it came out of the box, so materials and craftsmanship certainly play a role... Machined trumps cast any day, and you can't cast a worm... Sorry, 15+ years of reel repair service got me all chatty..


The drive gear arrangement on those old Penn 700s lends itself to a smoother, stronger operation IMO than newer reels. They are great reels, and they handle Fireline just fine so oscillation is not a problem. 

Regarding worm gear oscillation, every long-spool reel I've dealt with (Daiwa SS, Emblem, Emcast) uses worm drive as I believe it allow for a wider spool oscillation range. Seems like the old non-worm gear setup would require a pretty huge housing to get a long spool travel. Does this mean worm gear lets you cast farther? 

I think it does, but YMMV. Other factors play a part too.


----------



## ASK4Fish (May 4, 2005)

Indeed the worm mechanism lends itself to being useful for longer, slower spool strokes, such as with "big pit" and long cast spool styles. Shooter spools are generally oscillates to keep tooling costs to a minimum when building a new reel, most crosswinds are relatively interchangeable, with the length of the slider varied to determine stroke distance.


----------



## Guest (Nov 29, 2016)

Carolina Rebel said:


> The drive gear arrangement on those old Penn 700s lends itself to a smoother, stronger operation IMO than newer reels. They are great reels, and they handle Fireline just fine so oscillation is not a problem.
> 
> Regarding worm gear oscillation, every long-spool reel I've dealt with (Daiwa SS, Emblem, Emcast) uses worm drive as I believe it allow for a wider spool oscillation range. Seems like the old non-worm gear setup would require a pretty huge housing to get a long spool travel. Does this mean worm gear lets you cast farther?
> 
> I think it does, but YMMV. Other factors play a part too.


Makes sense. The length of teh spool works in direct relation with the length of the worm gear. To accomodate a longer spool the only part of the mechanism that needs change is a longer worm gear (and slider assembly). It's a one-dimensional change.

But for the older rotating arm, the whole thing rotates in 2 dimensions so the whole reel needs to be taller and wider to accomodate a longer spool.


----------

