# Spinners vs. Conventionals 101



## wolfgang (Nov 7, 2007)

I realize that this is a heated (although friendly) debate among the folks on this forum, but for the benefit of those of us who are fairly new to the debate...could you guys fill me in on the basics...

Based on another thread I started (Distance Casting 101), I was able to learn that conventionals will for the most part out perform spinners when one is looking for pure distance. And yet...there are ways to compensate if using a spinner...braided line on a spinner will _*almost*_ bring the level of performance up to that of the conventional spooled with mono.

All that being said...let's take the distance factor out of the equation completely. Assuming that distance is not a factor at all, what are the pros and cons of a conventional vs. a spinner? 

If you guys had no interest in the distance aspect of casting, would you still opt for the conventionals over the spinners? If so, why?

Aren't conventionals harder to use and maintain?

Thanks!


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## Lip Ripper (Dec 8, 2003)

good question?

spinner using braid, advantages over conventional
1- line capacity
2- no blow ups
3- less maintenance
4- stronger drag
5- easier to cast


conventional
1- easier to adjust drag
2- dont have to use braid
3- looks cooler
4- dont have to worry about cutting your finger off
5- dont have to lock the drag down to power cast

if they both cast the same distance, honestly i would probably be throwing spinners.


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## wolfgang (Nov 7, 2007)

Lip Ripper said:


> good question?
> 
> spinner using braid, advantages over conventional
> 1- line capacity
> ...


In laymans terms...

Define "blow ups"?

And...what does it mean when people say that braided line "digs in" and causes "birds nests"?


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## Centralpafish (Jul 5, 2007)

Great question, if you take distance out of equation and I'm lookin' at useing braid on a couple of Stradics I've got coming my way. Put 20# braid on a 2500 Stradic and not use a shocker to throw 1/2-3 oz? Seems or make sense to me? Philly Jack


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

I use both setups spin and conv. Frank D explained the real advantage of the Conventional is being able to go heavy. Now with modern braid spin can approach Conventional as heavy tackle. But still I use spin for the light stuff and Conv for the brute work, it is just easier for me. Throwing heavy weight or battling bruising fish, it just works better for me.


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## Lip Ripper (Dec 8, 2003)

wolfgang said:


> In laymans terms...
> 
> Define "blow ups"?
> 
> And...what does it mean when people say that braided line "digs in" and causes "birds nests"?


blowup, bird nest, rat nest, backlash, all the same thing

sometimes when casting hard, or after pulling a bad snag free, the line is under so much stress that it will dig down into the line under it, usually it will get stuck during the cast, sometimes it will break off, other times it will pull off a few loops of line(from the spool) at the same time, which is a pain in the ass because it get knotted all to hell and sometimes a loop will get caught on you guides a bend/break them. couple things to prevent it, make sure the line is wrapped on tight but not too tight. like if you break a lure off, dont just wind in the line, pinch it with your fingers and reel it in so its not loose. also if you happen to look down and see a loop hanging off the spool. dont try and cast it off, strip the like by hand until the loop is off, then pinch the line and reel it in.




GOD I SUCK AT DESCRIBING THINGS!!!!!


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

anything light. spinner. itll throw further then a winch no doubt - unless your pro. but get real, your not pro. braid is a must for distance. $$$. 

anything heavy. winch. it should throw further then a spinner no doubt. it wont cut off your finger. or necessitate the need for a breakaway cannon. you can use mono and get really good distance.

if a big fish slams your rig, it dont matter spin or winch, mono or braid, your rod is gonna feel it.

go with preference. i prefer a winch, although i do own some highend distance spinners now. i use what im in the mood for at the moment. if i have a few friends with me. i would bring the spinners instead.
not everyone knows how to lay line. so if a fish hits the spinner. i let them enjoy the fight.


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## Lip Ripper (Dec 8, 2003)

blow up

http://pierandsurf.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/1669/cat/500/ppuser/13218


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## wolfgang (Nov 7, 2007)

Lip Ripper said:


> sometimes when casting hard, or after pulling a bad snag free, the line is under so much stress that it will dig down into the line under it, usually it will get stuck during the cast, sometimes it will break off, other times it will pull off a few loops of line(from the spool) at the same time, which is a pain in the ass because it get knotted all to hell and sometimes a loop will get caught on you guides a bend/break them. couple things to prevent it, make sure the line is wrapped on tight but not too tight. like if you break a lure off, dont just wind in the line, pinch it with your fingers and reel it in so its not loose. also if you happen to look down and see a loop hanging off the spool. dont try and cast it off, strip the like by hand until the loop is off, then pinch the line and reel it in.


Sounds like braid is more trouble than its worth...all that you mention above (and "cutting off fingers" in your first response)...do the advantages of braid out weigh the disadvantages? Oh wait, that's a whole 'nother thread/debate/can of worms...


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## Lip Ripper (Dec 8, 2003)

good thing about a good deep braid cut in the crease of your index finger..................you only do it once!!

or if your like me, 3 or 4 or 10

just thinking about it makes me cringe. that feeling you get when you know ya hit bone, kinda tingly.


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

you know whats the worst cut on spinners?
when the line basically fillets some skin off your index,

sh*t feels like raw meat for the next week or so.
not to mention the bloody profusely coming out a minute after the cut.

ive heard stories with braid where some dude got gouged like a good 1/4" into finger


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## wolfgang (Nov 7, 2007)

These cuts and flesh fillets that you speak of...sounds like fun...are these rare or common when using braid? do they normally occur only when power casting or can they occur at any time?

And...just to keep us on course with the original question, maybe I should add another qualifier...

Assuming 1) distance is not a factor and 2) braid is not a factor (i.e., both reels with mono)...what's the pros and cons of spinners v. conventionals??


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## HellRhaY (Jul 6, 2007)

Lip Ripper said:


> good question?
> 
> 
> conventional
> ...


1- i find spinner easier to adjust the drag especially with the Shimano Spin Power Power Aero which have a micro clicker

2- need to use braid so i wont use shock leader, also braid has thinner line = less resistance.

3- have you seen a Basia with 45mm spool? it looks way cooler. it's like one of those TRANSFORMER things.

4- i always used a breakaway cannon

5- you don't need to lock the drag. wrap the line 3 times on the cannon to prevent slippage and frayed line.


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

wolfgang said:


> These cuts and flesh fillets that you speak of...sounds like fun...are these rare or common when using braid? do they normally occur only when power casting or can they occur at any time?
> 
> And...just to keep us on course with the original question, maybe I should add another qualifier...
> 
> Assuming 1) distance is not a factor and 2) braid is not a factor (i.e., both reels with mono)...what's the pros and cons of spinners v. conventionals??



spinner - ease of use. for bait or plug. in wind.lack of distance unless with braid. increased sensitivity.

winch - distance when lobbing bait. plug not so good. lack of sensitivity compared to braid.

in simpler more vague terms.


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## HellRhaY (Jul 6, 2007)

wolfgang said:


> These cuts and flesh fillets that you speak of...sounds like fun...are these rare or common when using braid? do they normally occur only when power casting or can they occur at any time?


 use the thing inside the red circle









when both are spooled with mono, conventional wins without a contest.


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## wolfgang (Nov 7, 2007)

HellRhaY said:


> use the thing inside the red circle
> 
> 
> 
> ...


1) OK...so I assume the cannon eliminates finger cuts when casting, but wouldn't braid still be more prone to cut when tying knots, landing fish, etc. What if your unlucky enough to wrap it around a leg?? 


2) Even if distance is taken out of the equation? Seems like the primary advantage of braid is distance. Why does the coventional win when both are spooled with mono _*if distance is not an issue*_.


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## Rockfish1 (Apr 8, 2005)

no one has mentioned the bite detection with the braid... probably 50% better cause there's no stretch in the braid... when you move the rod 2 ft on the strike the hook moves 2 feet VS 6" with mono... gimme braid any day...


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

then i really cant answer you.
best bet. try it next trip.

maybe team up with a friend who throws a winch and give it a try. xD



Rockfish1 said:


> no one has mentioned the bite detection with the braid... probably 50% better cause there's no stretch in the braid... when you move the rod 2 ft on the strike the hook moves 2 feet VS 6" with mono... gimme braid any day...


i mentioned sensitivity already.

with braid. if you forget to unlock drag on a deadstick. say bye bye to your r&r on a big strike.


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## Al Kai (Jan 8, 2007)

If you are going to use 20 to 30 pound test mono and be casting 6+ ounces 
I would say a conventional reel is your best bet.
For a spinner to carry as much mono it would have to be quite large (huge) and your distance with 20 to 30lb mono on a spinner compared to conventional will make you wanna flat out say the F word.
However, for me nothing casts as far or as well as a spinning reel for light lines (6 to 12 pound test) and light weights (1/16 ounce up to 3 ounces).


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## jlentz (Sep 11, 2005)

I prefer conventional over spinners for all uses except when casting very light lures into the wind. By very light I am refering to anything about 3/8 oz or less. I use a Daiwa Coastal inshore for light lure applications. It is a conventional reel very silmiliar to a freshwater baitcaster but stronger and more corrosion resistant. Casts very well and works great. I used it a couple of weeks ago casting small jigs to false albacore and the reel and drag had no problem.
John


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## mud (Sep 23, 2007)

Holy crapola!!!


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## Big Rad (May 19, 2003)

As a braid evangelist, I use braid almost exclusively. In fact I just put next generation power pro on an abu pro rocket (which I fished at Myrtle beach with no problems). That being said I use a glove or wrap my finger with electrical tape when casting braid on my spinners. It has become second nature. I can get it out there on a power cast. With the braid on a conventional (RED POWER PRO btw) I could really get it out there. I actually caught more fish on that set up as it cast further than my spinners...go figure. I did have a blow up when I let my son throw it. He forgot the thumb thing associated with a conventional. I picked that nest out without resorting to the knife trick.

Any Marylander would like to try some out let me know. I bought the 1500 yard spool of 50lb test.


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

I LOVE the way that a spinner vs. conventional question can turn into a braid vs. mono discussion.....

The short answer is, that for FISHING purposes, there is not a whole lot that a conventional will do that a spinner won't. Or vice versa. It boils down to choice.

The proficient use of conventional/baitcasting gear requires a commitment to the sport of fishing that most people do not have. It takes TIME and EFFORT to learn to use conventionals, whereas you can teach a five year old kid to throw spinners in about 10 minutes.

If you see someone fishing with conventionals, it can be reasonably assumed that they are serious, and spend a lot of time fishing. 

This is not so of the guy carrying a spinner...He may be the most knowledgeable, serious guy around, but you won't know that by looking at him. 

You want EASY, stick to spinners.

Most folks do...


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## trowpa (Jan 26, 2006)

As a recent convert from spinning to conventionals, one thing I have to add - the pure joy of casting. When I cast my spinners, I get the job done, they function - no big deal. When I cast my conventionals, I actually enjoy the act of casting - when using conventionals I feel that the act of casting itself becomes rewarding....maybe I'm crazy but - that extra intangible reward makes me prefer conventionals.


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## okimavich (Nov 13, 2006)

While we're usually talking about fishing from shore or pier, I think conventionals have an advantage on boats and yaks. Especially if you're bottom fishing. Just pop it into freespool and watch your line drop. Tossing underhand (aka flipping) is also easier.

Also you are more likely to throw your spinner spool out of alignment in a hard fight. I've seen a lot of bent shafts on spinning reels because of this.

That said, I usually avoid using conventionals/baitcasters at night. I don't like having to watch for the beginnings of a fluff to indicate that my lure/bait has hit the water.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

*Broken Record..*

Everyone has the right to choose whatever they want. Personally I think braid is too much drama for me. Wind knots, crossed lines, etc. It does excel in some conditions, that's a fact. I personally think that is distance is what you are after than get it the right way.. work on your casting. In my opinion spending time on a field will get me more distance than upgrading to braided line. 

I also notice people getting braid that has twice the breaking strength of there reel's drag. Maybe I'm wrong, but if my penn has 25lb drag why put 50lb braid on it? Once again that's just my opinion.


Also let's talk about overkill.... Here in Maryland I think a lot of us use line that's not needed.. all of my suf outfits have between 12-14lb test suffix spooled.. 98% of the fish im after can be landed on them. I will have know problem using that line at DE\AI\SPSP\PLO\NB, etc...

12 lb suffix on a (40-50 shock) Emblem and a 13 foot pole is enough most of the times...


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## ffemtreed (Mar 29, 2007)

Spinning Reel -- 

You need a break away cannon
A bit more bulky to cast
Less distance
Wind Knots (my personal arch enemy)
Almost need to use expensive braid 
More parts to fail
drags typically suck (unless you spend $$$)
Low cranking power compared to most conventional

Conventional

They need mags/brakes (for serious surf casting)
They blow up with the littlest of error
huge Learning curve for casting
You need to be more careful with knots 
Need more maintenance than spinner (IMHO)
They typically cost more than a spinner
Need to fish with them often in order to maintain efficiency (they are not for people who only fish 1 or 2 times a year)


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

> If you guys had no interest in the distance aspect of casting, would you still opt for the conventionals over the spinners? If so, why?


Hmm, might be able to get by with a cane pole if distance isn't an issue.

Seriously if your taking casting out of the equation it comes down to what equipment you feel comfortable playing a fish on.

For really big fish, I'd honestly be more comfortable with conventional gear, smoother more reliable drags for the most part, unless I'm willing to spend a lot more money to get a good drag in a spinner. (I'm not)

I really don't think it should be one or the other- like many others I prefer spinners for the light to medium duty work. For me it boils down to choosing the right tool for the job. There's plenty of room for personal preference as well.


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## okimavich (Nov 13, 2006)

Surf Cat said:


> Hmm, might be able to get by with a cane pole if distance isn't an issue.
> 
> Seriously if your taking casting out of the equation it comes down to what equipment you feel comfortable playing a fish on.
> 
> ...



As you said, it's what's comfortable and the right tool for the job. Since I have gotten into yak fishing, I find that my baitcaster/conventional is more comfortable for flipping and dropping. But I always bring a spinning setup for when it gets really dark or to give my hands and wrists a changeup after a night of repeated casting and retrieving.


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## Big Rad (May 19, 2003)

*Fwiw*

I too luv casting a conventional reel. There is something about doing it "right" that does give a greater sense of satisfaction. During the day I find myself fishing almost exclusively with a conventional reel. I'm not confident enough to toss it at night yet.

The comment about using line that is too heavy for the equipment is directed at those less serious about fishing (IMHO). As a person guilty of using higher tests of braid I am fully aware of all aspects of my equipment. If I have a 15lb flouro leader on my drag is set so that my leader won't break even though my line is rated for much more and so on and so forth......insert duh if you have no patience..........

I believe that "serious" fishermen will push the envelope at times but they stick with the basic knowledge that puts fish in da box, sand or on the planks.

I got a giant spool of 17lb test trilene on my bench right next to my Power Pro 
"There are different strokes for different folks" but the man who can incorporate the correct stroke at the appropriate time is ahead of the game....everytime


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## ffemtreed (Mar 29, 2007)

I use my conventional s for surf casting and my spinners for throwing plugs and pier fishing. 

I don't use conventional s because of the distance. I use them because I can cast them more consistently with 6oz and more of weight. I don't need to tape an extra piece of equipment on my rod to use them. 

I use them because i don't have to worry what will happen if I accidentally hook a shark or ray when fishing in the summer. i know I have a fighting chance with my conventionals. With some of my spinners, I am not confident I would have a chance. 

When casting that weight with spinners it just doesn't seem right to me. It always feels like something is just going to break. Which i know is not the case, its just the feeling.


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## Big Rad (May 19, 2003)

kmw21230 said:


> I also notice people getting braid that has twice the breaking strength of there reel's drag. Maybe I'm wrong, but if my penn has 25lb drag why put 50lb braid on it? Once again that's just my opinion.
> 
> 
> Also let's talk about overkill.... Here in Maryland I think a lot of us use line that's not needed.. all of my suf outfits have between 12-14lb test suffix spooled.. 98% of the fish im after can be landed on them. I will have know problem using that line at DE\AI\SPSP\PLO\NB, etc...
> ...


I use what is easy for me to see, untangle and or tie. Have you ever tried to work with some of that braid in 15 lb test? As we talked about once, we buy what we want instead of what we need sometimes just cause we wanna!:beer:opcorn:

When I first moved to Maryland I was catching spot at SPSP on a wallmart special more suited to bluegill and spot. How was I to know that a huge striper would somehow got hooked that day. It ran me up and down the beach and had my fat behind falling and rolling all over the place as I tried to finesse it to the beach. After an hour long 10 minute fight he busted me off with no problem. I'd rather be over than under if ya know what I mean


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

I use both every time I go out. I will use spinning for certain baits and then conventional for others. For example: When plugging off the pier, I find a spinning reel is better, mainly line retrieve to keep up with the "plugging" action. When fishing the bottom, generally I will use conventional. Mostly just because I am more used to conventional when fighting a fish. Each reel has its place in your arsenal. It is a little tough to eliminate this factor or that factor and make a blanket statement as to which is better. As with any other aspect of fishing, each has its place. If a person is willing to learn how to cast a conventional, it only expands your options.


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

2 notes:
Braid creates it' own set of problems I use it only in a heavy lure situation. Many use to heavy of a braid so they can regain the line handling ability that they loose with braid over mono. You do run the risk of damage to the rod with to heavy of a line.
Blowups. Learn to cast!! Really it is that simple. The guys that benefit from the additional distance that they get from braid probably have good fundamentals in their casting (SGT Slough is a great example) which would transfer over to the conv side of the world, very well. Flea I still have hope for you.

Basics: I use 10-12lb mono for throwing light lures with spinning gear. If I have to pull something out of the rocks while lure fishing. I grab a Muskie rod and A Corsair loaded with 20lb mono and go up a little on the jig head and tug.
There is one place I fish that I use 20-30lb line on a spinning setup and 2-3oz jigs and the braid is to get the lure down in the water faster.


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## ffemtreed (Mar 29, 2007)

I disagree with its just a learn to cast problem with blowups. 

To me its more a be careful when casting a conventional. 

99% of my blowups are due to carelessness, not casting ability. Such as my shock knot got caught in a guide, the line got wrapped around the tip before I cast and didn't notice it (at night). I didn't lay line on good when fighting a fish, I slip while casting because a wave is washing my feet out (impatience). 



Digger said:


> 2 notes:
> Braid creates it' own set of problems I use it only in a heavy lure situation. Many use to heavy of a braid so they can regain the line handling ability that they loose with braid over mono. You do run the risk of damage to the rod with to heavy of a line.
> Blowups. Learn to cast!! Really it is that simple. The guys that benefit from the additional distance that they get from braid probably have good fundamentals in their casting (SGT Slough is a great example) which would transfer over to the conv side of the world, very well. Flea I still have hope for you.
> 
> ...


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## ffemtreed (Mar 29, 2007)

Oh yeah, and the notion that you can't blow up a spinning reel is completely false. I have done it and have picture to proove it! 

I was pier fishing and snagged something on the bottom, I was putting a lot of pressure on my rod and line trying to free it when I accidentally somehow hit my bait runner switch. It was the mother of all blowup or 20lb suffix Tri. I cut about 200 yards of that stuff of the reel.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

Like I said every one should buy whatever they feel comfortable with... For me 12-14lb Suffix Tri is sweet... 

I caught a FAT rock on 30lb test braid this spring The fish was 34.5 inches and almost 18lbs.. He\She put up a good fight but at the end of the day it was a slim chance he was going to get away... I pretty much muscled him out the water.. In my opinion with finesse I could have used 12-14 lb test mono... Next time I'll be ready



Big Rad said:


> I use what is easy for me to see, untangle and or tie. Have you ever tried to work with some of that braid in 15 lb test? As we talked about once, we buy what we want instead of what we need sometimes just cause we wanna!:beer:opcorn:
> 
> When I first moved to Maryland I was catching spot at SPSP on a wallmart special more suited to bluegill and spot. How was I to know that a huge striper would somehow got hooked that day. It ran me up and down the beach and had my fat behind falling and rolling all over the place as I tried to finesse it to the beach. After an hour long 10 minute fight he busted me off with no problem. I'd rather be over than under if ya know what I mean


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

ffemtreed said:


> Oh yeah, and the notion that you can't blow up a spinning reel is completely false. I have done it and have picture to proove it!
> 
> I was pier fishing and snagged something on the bottom, I was putting a lot of pressure on my rod and line trying to free it when I accidentally somehow hit my bait runner switch. It was the mother of all blowup or 20lb suffix Tri. I cut about 200 yards of that stuff of the reel.


Now, that takes talent.....opcorn: BRAVO!!! LOL


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

ffemtreed said:


> I disagree with its just a learn to cast problem with blowups.
> 
> To me its more a be careful when casting a conventional.
> 
> 99% of my blowups are due to carelessness, not casting ability. Such as my shock knot got caught in a guide, the line got wrapped around the tip before I cast and didn't notice it (at night). I didn't lay line on good when fighting a fish, I slip while casting because a wave is washing my feet out (impatience).



Well it sounds like you have not "Learned to CAST" but those are all part of the fundamentals of casting. It has been years since I had a shocknot cause a blowup and really that was probably more of a poorly executed cast, the same problem occurs with spinning except the result is a breakoff. Wrapping the tip is the same problem as spinning another breakoff. The I did not lay the line down good is paying attention and making a lob cast to clear it (sometimes two if you really made a mess). Now the slip is again part of good footing which is the basis of all casts. Don't mean to be harsh. But is just like knots you have to learn them.


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## ffemtreed (Mar 29, 2007)

I didn't say how often I did these things. I blow up a reel maybe once a month fishing hard. 

Again my point is you need to be more careful with conventional. Its not about knowing how to plant your feet, or knowing how to look for line twisted around your tip, its the fact that you need to be more careful to check that out. Its not the knowledge of knowing how to do it. 

With a spinning reel, there is a good chance when this stuff happens that it just pulls drag (if you have it set right) rather than breaking the line. with a conventional its almost guaranteed blowup and break off.

Just saying that someone didn't learn to cast because they blowup a reel every now and then is a harsh statement. I bet 99.9% of the people on here apparently never "Learned to cast"



Digger said:


> Well it sounds like you have not "Learned to CAST" but those are all part of the fundamentals of casting. It has been years since I had a shocknot cause a blowup and really that was probably more of a poorly executed cast, the same problem occurs with spinning except the result is a breakoff. Wrapping the tip is the same problem as spinning another breakoff. The I did not lay the line down good is paying attention and making a lob cast to clear it (sometimes two if you really made a mess). Now the slip is again part of good footing which is the basis of all casts. Don't mean to be harsh. But is just like knots you have to learn them.


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## GMinPA (Oct 7, 2005)

WOW! 40 posts in just over 12 hours! And it's still November! Topics such as this usually dominate the various boards in January. 

I say this sort of thing must stop! If not, all the topics in January & February will be about what happened on American Idol.


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

The guys that I know who blowup, know they are doing it because that is the way they set it up pushing the envelope. It is all part of learning what you need to do. And yes they know that a little heavier oil will fix them slowing the reel down but they want that extra 6 inches, feet or yards.
You still have to do it right every time just like knots.

Planting you feet is basic to standing up whether in the sand on a pier being bounced in the surf or teetering on rocks. If the foundation is not good then the house will fall. Other than that pay attention it is not the hard.


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## HellRhaY (Jul 6, 2007)

ffemtreed said:


> Oh yeah, and the notion that you can't blow up a spinning reel is completely false. I have done it and have picture to proove it!
> 
> I was pier fishing and snagged something on the bottom, I was putting a lot of pressure on my rod and line trying to free it when I accidentally somehow hit my bait runner switch. It was the mother of all blowup or 20lb suffix Tri. I cut about 200 yards of that stuff of the reel.


get a different baitrunner where you wont "ACCIDENTALLY" hit the baitrunner lever.

someone mentioned about conventionals on boat, for the ease of trolling or free dropping your bait- i use to bring my conventionals on boat until i got hold of the Shimano SpinPower Power Aero.

Anyone in my area interested to try it, i'll let you have it for fishing. it has 44# of drag, 2 micro clicker for accurate drag setting, no baitrunner lever, so no "accidental" turning on of the baitrunner lever. Shallow, Large diameter spool, designed for braid. It's the best reel ever invented for spinners and it's the best reel i ever owned.


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## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

HellRhaY said:


> Anyone in my area interested to try it, i'll let you have it for fishing. it has 44# of drag, 2 micro clicker for accurate drag setting, no baitrunner lever, so no "accidental" turning on of the baitrunner lever. Shallow, Large diameter spool, designed for braid. It's the best reel ever invented for spinners and it's the best reel i ever owned.


So do you use a harness or the rail with the 44lbs of drag? How long can it sustain 44lbs of drag, or is that like the maximum "lockdown" drag?


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

ffemtreed said:


> I didn't say how often I did these things. I blow up a reel maybe once a month fishing hard.
> 
> Again my point is you need to be more careful with conventional. Its not about knowing how to plant your feet, or knowing how to look for line twisted around your tip, its the fact that you need to be more careful to check that out. Its not the knowledge of knowing how to do it.
> 
> ...


I think I would tend to agree with the statement that "there is less room for error" with conventionals. Most blow ups by beginning conventional users are certainly due to poor casting, some of which can be directly linked to learning on spinning gear, which allows for more slop and "snap" than you can get way with on conventional gear.

The only blowups I have had this year were on the tournament casting court, where as Digger said , the idea is to push the envelope.

I haven't had a severe backlash while fishing in years, and haven't had a crackoff since I quit using spinning gear with a "snap" cast-- many years ago now. (If you grew up on spinning gear, there may be some bad habits ingrained that can be tough to get rid of. )

If your having issues with blowups there can be a lot of culprits, but they all boil down to experience- or lack there of. Only when your casting is absolutely flawless can you get away with running a reel on the fast side, until then slow down the reel and you should see blowups become a thing of the past. (Keeping in mind that there is such a thing as playing it "too safe".)


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## HellRhaY (Jul 6, 2007)

AtlantaKing said:


> So do you use a harness or the rail with the 44lbs of drag? How long can it sustain 44lbs of drag, or is that like the maximum "lockdown" drag?


the biggest fish i caught with 44# is an achovie, so no need for the harness!

44# is the max drag, it isn't the lock down drag.
well if you want mroe drags, go with the saltiga it has 160# of drag- with that drag- you're gonna need a large harness.


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## wolfgang (Nov 7, 2007)

This may be a dumb question, but here goes...a couple of people have mentioned that they use conventionals during the day, but keep spinners on hand for night fishing...

Why are conventionals harder to fish with at night?


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

thats self explanatory, you need to fish more at night. and figure out why. hahaha


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## wolfgang (Nov 7, 2007)

ooeric said:


> thats self explanatory, if you dont understand the simple logic of seeing in the dark. none of us can help. sorry if im sounding like an ass.


Nope, you don't sound like an ass...like I said, its probably a dumb question...but I must be missing something.

I understand that its harder to see in the dark, but it is equally dark and equally hard to see when using a spinner. So if one is experienced at using a conventional why would he need to switch to a spinner at night?

To put it another way...I can use a spinner as well at night as I can during the day, the darkness doesn't make it any more difficult. Why would it be any different for someone who uses conventionals all the time?


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

you cant see where the bait hits. dont know when to stop spool unless your very proficient in counting how long your cast is.

with spinner. you close your eyes, cast, close the bail when you walk back to your spike. done.


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

In most cases, when you make a cast with a conventional, you are watching the payload fly, and stop the spool with your thumb at splashdown, to prevent over-runs.

This is hard to do at night, obviously, and therefore, some folks opt for spinners in the dark.

Myself, I've never had a problem with conventionals in the dark...I just listen to the reel, and "feel for fluff" with my thumb held slightly above the spool.

No problem. But then again, I fish in the dark quite a bit, too.


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## wolfgang (Nov 7, 2007)

ooeric said:


> thats self explanatory, you need to fish more at night. and figure out why. hahaha


Actually I love to fish at night and do it quite a bit...its just that I have never fished with a conventional, so the concept of having to stop the spool is lost on me???

I have never made a single cast with a conventional. Can you explain "stopping the spool"?

And even with a spinner I can't see where the bait hits on a dark night.


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## wolfgang (Nov 7, 2007)

Thanks for the clarification Railroader! Its starting to make sense.

Sounds like there's a whole lot to learn if I make the switch to conventionals...

What does "feel for fluff" mean?


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

With a conventional reel the spool itself actually rotates. The payload pulls off line like pulling line off a filler spool with a pencil shoved thru it.

With a spinner the spool does not rotate, but remains fixed, with the payload pulling line off in coils, from the side.

Since a spinner's spool does not move, the line slows as the payload slows.

A conventional spool must be controlled manually, or it will continue to rotate after the payload stops, spitting line off, and resulting in a "blow-up" or "backlash".

With a conventional, if your spool is moving faster than line is being pulled off, it will "fluff". Let fluff go too far, and you "blow-up".


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## wolfgang (Nov 7, 2007)

Thanks again Railroader! Great explanation...the light bulbs are going on in my head...finally!


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## bjake (Jul 25, 2007)

Baitcasters all the way.Throwing larger lures or having to recast bait makes my fingers sore with spinners especially if using braid in the size recommended for the outfit.I now understand the problem some have with conventional at night as have lost feeling in fingertips and get some backlash at night.Spinners are good for throwing lures 1/4 oz. and under.
Jake


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## spinyeel (Jun 17, 2007)

One of our best Mulloway lures here in Oz casts like a demented bat on coventional gear,causing serious backlashing.A good dunkable spinner is on my list at the moment.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Big Rad said:


> I got a giant spool of 17lb test trilene on my bench right next to my Power Pro


 You can get 17lb trilene??? In big game,solar??? If you could please give me a link or some kind of way to get in touch with someone that sells it,please.>> Personally I like it better than suffix,but all I have found was 15 to 20lb test.. 17 fits the bill for what I do with a heaver... Right diameter (to elliminate drifting in current),and strength (for putting the heat on when needed and not breaking off with the tackle I use)..

As far as the original question,use what you like each has it's purpose.. For me light stuff, pluggin, and throwing metal I use both,but mostly spinners with braid do the job best in most cases.. Conventionals do the trick better when bait fishing,imo.. As far as a smoother drag,it's always been conventional.. I think physics prove that line coming off a revolving spool as opposed to line coming off a spool that is at a 45 degree angle from the pull, speaks for itself... I throw further with conventional,and have seen some that can put a bait into orbit with a spinner.. All depends on individual and what he or she likes,and for what type of fishing they are using it for..

Different types of rods and reels are like different types of tools in a workshop to turn a nut or screw.. Some folks will instantly grab a power tool,and some will grab something manual,like a screwdriver or wrench.. Use whatever tool works for you to catch a fish.. It's not so much the tools you use to catch one,but what's in your head when you go seeking fish.. In other words the tools used don't make the fisherman..


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## okimavich (Nov 13, 2006)

Drumdum said:


> Different types of rods and reels are like different types of tools in a workshop to turn a nut or screw.. Some folks will instantly grab a power tool,and some will grab something manual,like a screwdriver or wrench.. Use whatever tool works for you to catch a fish.. It's not so much the tools you use to catch one,but what's in your head when you go seeking fish.. In other words the tools used don't make the fisherman..


Nice analogy.


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## F I LetsGoFishin (Apr 24, 2007)

I think railroader has it right, if you take distance out of the equation there is no differance except preferance.
I look at conventionals as I do flyrods, Those that prefer them are looking at fishing as more of a form of art and they take great pride in their abilities. They catch no more or no fewer fish than spinners they just enjoy other aspects of the sport.


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## vbflyfisher (May 2, 2005)

drumdum, search for berkley big game supreme. they make that in 17lb, and its like a smoke color.


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## okimavich (Nov 13, 2006)

Railroader said:


> But then again, I fish in the dark quite a bit, too.


Me, too. But it's more from inexperience than time of day.


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## Hannibal (Aug 10, 2007)

My opinion:

I've fished both - but have spent FAR more time with spinners.

I switched to a conventional (Penn 525 Mag) after being outcast nearly 2:1 (only a SLIGHT exageration) by a "kid" 1/2 my size. 

Granted, I quickly learned going from a spinner to a conventional wasn't a simple upgrade in distance.

Now, from my own assesments an unofficial testing. With both equipped with 17-20 lb mono, the conventional out cast the spinners nearly everytime. The MAJOR qualification though was that my conventional cast had to be nearly perfect in order for that to ring true. It didn't take much to end up with a crappy cast (release too early, too late, not enough rod whip, etc). It what seemed to be the "perfect spot" - the conventional outreached the spinner by a good bit.

That will/should be even more true when I REALLY learn how to cast with it ....... practice, practice, practice.

Now, with braid on a couple of my spinners, I can place them right along side my conventional tosses. The thinner diameter makes all the difference there. 

The real success/key will be when I feel comfortable enough to switch my conventional over from mono to braid.

So I guess in summary, my OPINION is that the equal for equal (mono vs mono), the conventional out casts the spinner. However, the spinner is much more user friendly and FAR more forgiving. If/when you can learn to properly cast with the conventional (i have not), I believe you will see that difference become even more visable.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

vbflyfisher said:


> drumdum, search for berkley big game supreme. they make that in 17lb, and its like a smoke color.


 Thanks,but for the fishing I do,I need something I can see in the dark.. Maybe they'll see the light and make it in the solar color...


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

Drumdum said:


> Thanks,but for the fishing I do,I need something I can see in the dark.. Maybe they'll see the light and make it in the solar color...


They make Trilene XT in 17lb in clear, green, and red. I think for night fishing you'd probably need lunar collector, not solar....

http://tinyurl.com/2l24hn


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## kenyee (Nov 27, 2007)

Hannibal said:


> However, the spinner is much more user friendly and FAR more forgiving.


Don't forget casting into the wind...fluff city w/ a conventional but spinners seem to be ok w/ it.


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## ffemtreed (Mar 29, 2007)

kenyee said:


> Don't forget casting into the wind...fluff city w/ a conventional but spinners seem to be ok w/ it.


Just back the mags down a bit and you are fine casting into the wind.


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## kenyee (Nov 27, 2007)

ffemtreed said:


> Just back the mags down a bit and you are fine casting into the wind.


If you have a magged conventional 
I have a Daiwa SHA...only time I've come close to thinking about cutting out a birdsnest is when I let it rip through a headwind because I wasn't getting enough distance; all other times, I've just had minor fluff that's easy to pick out...


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

*Maybe I'm wrong..*

but when I see a Guy\Gal cast a conventional reel I just seem to assume that they spent time working on there cast.. Spinning is cool, but you can get away with brute force most of the time. Not the same with conventional reels..


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## squalus (Sep 26, 2007)

Drumdum said:


> Thanks,but for the fishing I do,I need something I can see in the dark.. Maybe they'll see the light and make it in the solar color...


DD they do make it in 17# - just a little hard to find. 

Check your PMs 

Steve


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