# Sinker Speed ???



## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

In Tournament Casting, what's the maximum speed the sinkers travel at ???

I'm guessing that Danny Moeskops generates the highest speed, since he has the distance record . . .


----------



## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

I have read that the sinker speed of a top tournament caster is over 200 mph.

Tommy


----------



## dsurf (Aug 5, 2003)

At what point is the sinker when it hits it's max speed?


----------



## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

My guess would be at release. Everything should be working to accelerate the sinker up to release. After that there is no motivating force being applied so it would have to start decelerating.

Tommy


----------



## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

"Smokin' Fast" . . . I sure wouldn't want to get hit by that !

A 165 gram sinker, travelling @200 mph ( 300 ft/sec) = 509 ft/lbs of energy ( about the same as most .357 Magnum rounds ).


----------



## Don B (Jul 28, 2001)

You need to go across the pond for the most accurate info.
u (initial velocity) is solved in their equation.

http://www.worldseafishing.com/forums/threads/what-is-the-speed-of-the-sinker-upon-release.2251543/


----------



## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

Don B said:


> You need to go across the pond for the most accurate info.
> u (initial velocity) is solved in their equation.
> 
> http://www.worldseafishing.com/forums/threads/what-is-the-speed-of-the-sinker-upon-release.2251543/


After reading that 18 page long thread, they couldn't seem to come to any firm agreement on the speed among them.


----------



## js1172 (Jun 5, 2012)

20 to 40% slower than my spool!
js


----------



## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

I read somewhere years ago that a radar gun had been used to measure speed in the 200 mph range. Again, this was something I read a long time ago and not based on any tests that I or anyone I know may have performed. 

I also read most of Don's referenced thread and didn't see anything concrete, mostly flawed formulas....

There are so many dynamics at play, I don't believe you can plot it out on paper. Someone needs to put a radar gun on Danny, Will or any top level tournament caster to get a firm answer. One thing is for sure, there is A LOT of energy in play.

Tommy


----------



## tjbjornsen (Oct 31, 2009)

js1172 said:


> 20 to 40% slower than my spool!
> js


Now THAT is funny.


----------



## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

I wonder if some kind of accelerometer would be practical to use.
*
http://www.google.ch/patents/US20060052173*


----------



## Surfjunkie (Dec 28, 2015)

I think Dave has the right idea, if they make an accelerometer that can withstand a short flight and landing that is lol


----------



## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

Surfjunkie said:


> I think Dave has the right idea, if they make an accelerometer that can withstand a short flight and landing that is lol


Maybe inside some type of protective housing ?


----------



## Surfjunkie (Dec 28, 2015)

I seem to think I've seen practice baseballs, for pitchers that give some sort of feed back?


----------



## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

To be accurate, the accelerometer would need to be the approx. size and weight of a comparable sinker. A baseball (or other similarly size object) will not move at the same speed as say a 150 g sinker that weights about the same..


----------



## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

Tommy said:


> To be accurate, the accelerometer would need to be the approx. size and weight of a comparable sinker. A baseball (or other similarly size object) will not move at the same speed as say a 150 g sinker that weights about the same..


Maybe something from the "world of golf" could be adapted . . .


----------



## Mastrbaitr (May 7, 2014)

How about using simple math and basic physics? Why make a mountain out of a mole hill?


----------



## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

Mastrbaitr said:


> How about using simple math and basic physics? Why make a mountain out of a mole hill?


OK . . . Have at it !

How are you going to determine the maximum speed of the sinker, right at the moment of release ?

If you're going to try to use time of flight vs. distance, that won't be accurate, since the angle is different every time and there is no practical way to precisley measure it. Also, since the sinker does not fly perfectly straight through the air, the aerodynamic drag force is constantly changing, as the angle of attack of the sinker changes. It would also be necessary to take into account the precise air density, wind speed, and it's vector, relative to the cast, too.

All of that was already discussed in that UK article. In over 18 forum pages, no one had a definitive means to calculate it. Therefor, I am pretty certain it would have to be directly measured ( Radar gun or accelerometer ), unless you have the means to precisely measure all those variables and the mathematical forumulae to calculate it, accurately ?


----------



## 2ndbar (Nov 16, 2013)

Seems to me the sinker can not travel any faster then the tip of the rod. When the rod tip whips forward at the moment of release acceleration stops. The radar gun or similar device seems reasonable.


----------



## 2ndbar (Nov 16, 2013)

Most of the energy is linear. However there is the dynamics of an arc going on. Where the inner arc may be going the same revolution as the outer arc the distance traveled by the outer arc is greater therefore having more speed. Similar to a catapult. That being said, up to the moment of release the sinker could be going slightly faster then the rod tip. Now I've bent my brain around this to the point I am thoroughly convince I have know Idea what I am talking about.


----------



## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

The sinker is traveling through a larger arc (rod plus shockleader, on a tournament rod may be 10 feet dangling from the tip) and has (hopefully) been accelerated through that arc resulting in more speed at the sinker than the tip.

Tommy


----------



## 1BadF350 (Jul 19, 2006)




----------



## HStew (Jan 8, 2009)

muzzle vel. highest for projectile leaving barrel of gun. So, i'm gonna guess max. vel. for sinker is at release after fish rod is fullly loaded.


----------



## 1BadF350 (Jul 19, 2006)

HStew said:


> muzzle vel. highest for projectile leaving barrel of gun. So, i'm gonna guess max. vel. for sinker is at release after fish rod is fullly loaded.


You must work for NASA with brains like that.


----------



## Benji (Nov 19, 2014)

You need a high speed camera and a black and white board, like they used in any episode of myth busters ever.


----------



## 2ndbar (Nov 16, 2013)

Actually not that far fetch of an idea. Using a timed lapsed camera and a high speed timed stobe light you can measure speed if you had a back ground of known distance. Such a back ground wouldn't be that hard to do, two poles might work. Kinda the same principal as a chronograph used to measure bullet velocity.


----------



## Benji (Nov 19, 2014)

You don't need a strobe light a simple background of equally measured spaces and a fast enough camera to film it will work. Same way they measure the speed of a bullet.
You would need a fairly large wall to cover the entire arch of the cast however.


----------



## DaBig2na (Aug 7, 2011)

This is one of many ussless and absolutely ignorant posts that Dave likes to put up. I think that while he is fishing in his livingroom he just thinks up stupid crap like this.

Here is a radical concept..... Really , Really , Really Fast. If I cast it.

And 

Really, Really, Really, Really, Really, Really, Really , Really if Tommy Farmer or Ryan Lambert casts it.
Then Jimmie Johns Fast after that. Because they are going to want someone to " Make them a Damn Sammich".

Like JS said, "20 to 40 percent faster than his spool"

If you guys are trying to analyze this topic , you really have too much time on your hands.


----------



## 2ndbar (Nov 16, 2013)

Knowledge is not ignorant just a lack of it


----------



## HStew (Jan 8, 2009)

1BadF350 no nasa lots of pracitce .204 to 45-70... .204 muzzle vel 4225


----------



## rocket (Dec 1, 2008)

DaBig2na said:


> If you guys are trying to analyze this topic , you really have too much time on your hands.


Says the guy who took the time to reply to a thread he claimed to have no interest in...


----------



## DaBig2na (Aug 7, 2011)

rocket said:


> Says the guy who took the time to reply to a thread he claimed to have no interest in...


Doess it look as if I did an analysis ? Does it show I have an interest? 
How about you stand to the right of me while I cast ...
Now hold that radar gun real steady now.


----------



## BigWillJ (Jan 21, 2001)

Anybody got a "snap" equation/calculation? My sinker must be going really fast when it's launched, because it really, really goes much farther after the snap, then it would have gone had everything stayed together.

Maybe an accident reconstruction expert can determine how fast a 150g tourney sinker was travelling, before impact and penetration of a car radiator down field. Actually happened, or so the story goes. No names mentioned. Wasn't me.


----------



## 1BadF350 (Jul 19, 2006)

HStew said:


> 1BadF350 no nasa lots of pracitce .204 to 45-70... .204 muzzle vel 4225


I was being sarcastic. And yes i too have experience from .17 HMR to .50 BMG and everything in between


----------



## rocket (Dec 1, 2008)

DaBig2na said:


> Doess it look as if I did an analysis ? Does it show I have an interest?
> How about you stand to the right of me while I cast ...
> Now hold that radar gun real steady now.


If this thread is such a waste of time why do you keep coming back to it? Just curious.


----------



## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

Guys,

I used a couple of online calculators to see how much energy potential there is.

A 150 gram sinker weighs 2314.85 grains . . . A velocity of 200 mph is 293.33 ft/sec . . . 2314.85 gr, traveliing at 293.33 ft/sec = 408 ft/lbs.

408 ft/lbs = About 9% more than a typical 9mm round, 3% less than a typical .40 S&W, and 9.5% less than a typical .45 ACP round.

*http://www.shooterscalculator.com/bullet-kinetic-energy.php*


----------



## DaBig2na (Aug 7, 2011)

rocket said:


> If this thread is such a waste of time why do you keep coming back to it? Just curious.


Because I Can!


----------



## BritBri (Dec 1, 2015)

This should help .


----------



## BritBri (Dec 1, 2015)

BritBri said:


> View attachment 19801
> 
> 
> This should help .


Not gonna help with maximum speed tho i dont think.


----------



## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

BritBri said:


> Not gonna help with maximum speed tho i dont think.


True, as it would only provide an average speed and the rate of deceleration is not linear, due to changes in aerodynamic drag force as the speed and angle of attack varies.


Tight Lines !


----------



## Mastrbaitr (May 7, 2014)

http://m.dummies.com/how-to/content/calculating-the-speed-of-an-object-with-uniform-ci.html
Probably the closest you will get.


----------

