# Questions on Beach Fishing with Penn Senator Special 113H 4/0



## ABombs (Oct 13, 2020)

I recently fell in love with beach fishing here in SW Florida. I inherited a few old Penn reels that I have been putting to good use. My favorite has been a vintage Penn 155 Beachmaster. I rebuilt it and replaced the drag washers with carbontex, and it is pulling smooth 18 lb of drag. The learning curve to cast it has been steep, but I have gotten pretty good, and the number of birds nests I get each time out is becoming fewer and fewer. So far I have caught a 33" wide stingray, and a 40" snook. After pulling in some bigger fighters with this setup, I don't think I'll ever be putting big baits on small budget spinning reels ever again. I find these conventional reels pleasing to work with.

I've thought about magging it, but mine is a chrome/brass spool, so to the best of my understanding this won't work. Must be aluminum, the internet tells me....

But I know I shouldn't target sharks with the Beachmaster & 40 lb test. So, maybe impulsively, I found and bought a used Penn Senator Special 113H 4/0 locally for $35. It happened to be spooled with 300+ yards of new 80 lb power pro braid, which made it an excellent deal, and exactly what I was looking for. Overall the reel is in pretty decent shape. Drag pulls smooth at 20 lb, and everything works. Missing one screw on the base plate, but otherwise pretty much ready to fish..... The spool in the Senator happens to also be chrome/brass... Not good for magging, and maybe not the best choice for beach casting either. Tried looking around for an aluminum spool to put in it, but that's another $50.... Which makes this not so cheap anymore if I am buying parts.... *But maybe another $50 invested in an aluminum spool is what my circumstances require?* Or am I crazy for thinking this is good idea in the first place?

Generally speaking, is the Penn Senator 4/0 with a chrome/brass spool a bad choice for beach casting? Or just a tough choice to throw out again and again? For reference, I will have it on a 10' Daiwa Beefstick. I haven't tried it yet.... Just geeking out on how to get the best results. I would like to believe that with practice and good thumb control, I can cast this beast as is.... And enjoy doing so.... Thoughts? Suggestions? Thank you.


----------



## ABombs (Oct 13, 2020)

After some hemming and hawing I decided to just go ahead and order an aluminum spool for the 113H Senator reel. I want to surf fish with it, and I read up on the model differences of 113H vs 113HL.... Boat vs Surf casting... I'll be able to mag it now as well.

Now if I can find an aluminum spool for the 155 Beachmaster than I will mag that one as well..... I have a left handed 209 Level Wind with an aluminum spool. Maybe I can just swap spools between the 155 Beachmaster and the 209 Level Wind? I might try this soon unless someone here knows?

It's funny how I love these things for the tanks they are, and the value I get out of them... But I love them so much I want to spend money and upgrade them. Kind of inevitable, I guess....


----------



## Catch This (Nov 19, 2005)

Yes the Senator is a tank. If it were me, before I tried the cast the Senator from the Beach, I would get a reel more suited to casting. If you want to stay with Penn, see if you can find an old Squidder 140 or 146, or the Surfmaster 200, or Power Mag 970, or 980. They are around and you should be able to get a Squidder for not much more than your aluminum spool. Check Flea bay, Craigs list, and Facebook Market place. The Senators werent made for casting, they are boat reels. Some can do it but not many. Many of us old timers started out on the Squidder.

Oh and another thought, another old reel is Diawa SLSH, aka Slosh, in either 20 or 30, they too are tanks, but they were made for casting and should be available under a hundred bucks. The internals on the 20 and 30 are the same, the 30 is a little wider and has more line capacity.


----------



## slosh (Jul 1, 2017)

No bias here, but Catch This is spot on about the Daiwas. The slosh reels (Sealine 20SH, 30SH) cast beautifully and are super durable. If a Senator 4/0 is a 1957 Chevy truck, the 30SH is a 1994 Toyota Pickup- - both last forever with basic maintenance, but the newer one is easier to live with on a daily basis, and will do most everything you need. 

Slosh is easier to work on than the Senator in my opinion. I hate dealing with all the side plate screws and posts on the Penns now. 

Aside from big sharks or tarpon or Goliath grouper, there's nothing you need a 4/0 Senator to catch from a Florida beach anyway. 

If it's gotta be a Penn, again like Catch This said the 970, 980, 990 are great. I believe they used Jigmaster gearing in a smaller package, with a mag brake from the factory. If newer is OK, Squall, 525 Mag, 535 GS, all good options.


----------



## ABombs (Oct 13, 2020)

Ok guys, thanks for the input. The Slosh is officially on my radar now.... Maybe that will be the next impulse purchase when I get bored of the Penns'. 

Also hearing this feedback just encourages me to continue loving the 155 Beachmaster. I found a used aluminum spool on ebay for it under $20 shipped. I am going to mag it maybe next week and see how that goes.... Even without spool bearings mine spins really nice already. I am optimistic. The Beachmaster in particular has sentimental value to me. It belonged to my grandfather's brother whom was a sailor his entire life. This Beachmaster was on his boat as his primary rod for 40 years and traveled the world. I don't think he ever targeted big game fish, but it was a staple possession in his life. He used it for humble fishing.

Regarding the Senator 4/0: This guy on youtube makes it look pretty easy to throw (start watching at 6:38 to see him test it). Videos like this make me feel pretty confident I have this within my immediate skill set to make work.

I also understand that it is highly unlikely that I will hook up a monster I can't bring in with the Beachmaster as is... But I have had my Florida fishing license now for only 2 months, and I have already been stopped by FWC 3 times. They have gotten hardcore about the legal restrictions.... I live in an area affected by red tide, and all the species have such specific requirements it is an academic exercise to keep it all straight. I went ahead and got my shark tag by taking their mandatory shore-based shark fishing course. And in the course they say it is illegal to target sharks without at least 80lb test on heavy tackle. Illegal. Straight up illegal. So I am not trying to break the law. And I know that if the next time I am approached by an authority while fishing, when they ask "What are you fishing for today?" it is a terrible idea not to be forward and honest. Even pausing on that question gives them the legal authority to search your coolers, your vehicle, and anything else in your possession. I hate feeling like I'm caught with my pants down with these guys... If my hook size is huge and I am throwing out 8 oz chunks of cut bait, I know better. My gear has to match the target or I could be cited. These guys love catching people that aren't seasoned experts and technically savvy. They love it. So I want to be ready with the right gear so I can focus on enjoying my time more. It would be awful to land that medium sized shark, and have the great fight, and bring it in, and then get cited because beach patrol rolled by and checked in on the action. Beach patrol are literally everywhere on the beach since the quarantine period lifted and the beaches opened again.

I would love to hear from more conventional reel users out there!


----------



## ABombs (Oct 13, 2020)

Hey Everybody, I feel kind of surprised no one else has chimed in IN SUPPORT of beach casting the Senator 4/0. I took it out to the beach yesterday and had no trouble getting some big baits pretty far out there without any modifications. All I did was oil it before heading out. It has a brass spool. Yes, it's heavy, but after so much practice with the Penn 155 Beachmaster, heaving this beast wasn't too much tougher. Here is a VIDEO of me casting a 4oz sinker with a >>4oz fish head. Total weight was somewhere around 8-10oz (estimated--maybe more).

It was my 4th cast of the day. The first 3 casts were good as well, but a little less far. The first few attempts pulled left and down slightly. I tried using a glove at first to avoid thumb burn, but I also tried it without and had no trouble at all once my line was wet. The first 3 casts gave me zero backlash nor birds nest situations. The 4th cast, with some confidence, I heaved further and used less thumb. The line got a little loose by a few wraps, but did not tangle and was quick and simple to let out and tighten up again.

Here are some photos that show the distance of the cast. I heaved it past the last piling. The tide was up as you can see, so the measured distance was ~200 feet. I have never ever cast such a big reel before in my life, and honestly I found this to be quite doable with minimal practice. For anyone fairly new to casting big conventional reels, while there are easier, lighter setups to use, this is totally doable. This isn't as impossible as the internet fishing legends would have you believe. I can't wait to see how this thing casts with an aluminum spool after magging. I can't wait to catch some big game on this.


----------



## slosh (Jul 1, 2017)

That was a great cast with a brass spool Senator, I doubt I could do any better. 

It's all relative though, if you ever get to try a slosh/saltist/squall you will see why people aren't casting 4/0s unless they have to.


----------



## ABombs (Oct 13, 2020)

slosh said:


> That was a great cast with a brass spool Senator, I doubt I could do any better.


Thanks!



> It's all relative though, if you ever get to try a slosh/saltist/squall you will see why people aren't casting 4/0s unless they have to.


I believe it. It's definitely on my radar now.


----------



## BLACK ADDER (Nov 15, 2006)

I have fished Senator 9/0 from the beach using a kite. If you GOOGLE "NEW ZEALAND KITE FISHING" you will see how to do it. I used a regular toy store kite. This will help you utilize your 4/0.


----------



## mbg60 (May 11, 2008)

Here in Hawaii, 4/0 Senators are a standard for casting from the beaches and cliffs. Good casters are getting 150+ yards with 60-80lb test and 8-10oz lead. The reels routinely catch very large Ulua(GT). The are some that are casting 6/0 too.


----------



## mdsurffishing (Dec 31, 2013)

mbg60 said:


> Here in Hawaii, 4/0 Senators are a standard for casting from the beaches and cliffs. Good casters are getting 150+ yards with 60-80lb test and 8-10oz lead. The reels routinely catch very large Ulua(GT). The are some that are casting 6/0 too.


What rods are they using?


----------



## js1172 (Jun 5, 2012)

Lentz's law works with any metal, you can mag any spool and it will work, I mag everything including 4/0 and 6/0 reels.
js


----------



## ABombs (Oct 13, 2020)

js1172 said:


> Lentz's law works with any metal, you can mag any spool and it will work, I mag everything including 4/0 and 6/0 reels.
> js



Thanks for this comment. I appreciate hearing this.


----------



## ABombs (Oct 13, 2020)

BLACK ADDER said:


> I have fished Senator 9/0 from the beach using a kite. If you GOOGLE "NEW ZEALAND KITE FISHING" you will see how to do it. I used a regular toy store kite. This will help you utilize your 4/0.


I have been thinking about this method a lot. Good when the wind conditions are just right.... Another idea I came up with is using a drone or RC boat to get the bait out. I am a drone pilot already, but I don't have a drone that can carry and drop a bait at this time. It would be a few thousand dollars of upgrades to move up to something like the SwellPro SplashDrone 3+. It would be a fun business to offer people a service to fly baits all day for land-based shark fishing, and catch some footage of them at the same time...


----------



## ABombs (Oct 13, 2020)

Update: I have now been fishing more with the Senator 4/0, and it's been pretty good to me. I have hooked a few beasts but haven't yet landed one. I upgraded the brass spool to aluminum and it is a nice improvement, but as expected, not every cast is a nice one. I would say 1/3 of the time I get a great cast, 1/3 of the time I get an okay cast, and 1/3 of the time I get a bad cast, and potentially lose my bait, or break off the sinker, or similar (due to a birds nest mid-flight). The odds of the cast not going well do stress me out a bit and take away some of the joy. Especially fishing at night. Getting all that gear out on the beach, and having a few rigs staggered with small, medium, large baits--it's a lot of work! And to mess up casting the big bait in the dark.... Well... Just not very fun. It's a committed task to cast this thing for sharks at night. I need to have extra bait and sinkers on hand and be willing to re-rig again and again.

One night I tried to cast a huge jack head and sputnik sinker full force in the dark, and I didn't notice the line had wrapped around the tip of the pole... Big mistake! My 2-piece pole came apart and the top half launched into the ocean.... I had to repair more than one line guide as a result. Nights like that make me feel like my success rate would go up if I used a different setup, like a Penn Slammer, or Kastking Megatron, or another conventional reel that isn't such a brute to cast... Reflecting on my experiences.... Still going to keep fishing the Penn Senator though!  I am invested and committed to this journey, (at least for the next season or two).

Next I will mag this thing and report back how it improves my cast and overall fishing success.


----------



## Catch This (Nov 19, 2005)

No disrespect intended, but if I was only satisfied with one out of 3 casts, it would be time for a major change. You may want to cut your losses and get a reel designed to cast.


----------



## Harrymanz (May 28, 2018)

Or build a bait cannon


----------



## ABombs (Oct 13, 2020)

Catch This said:


> No disrespect intended, but if I was only satisfied with one out of 3 casts, it would be time for a major change. You may want to cut your losses and get a reel designed to cast.


You misquoted me. I described 2 out of 3 casts to be acceptable. And this has been at night, in the dark, with big heavy baits--a challenging situation for anyone on any tackle. And considering my first honest attempts at learning to throw baits with big ol' conventional reels has only been a couple of short months in the works, I would have to say I am doing exceptionally well. 

Since some of these conventional reels have been hand-me-downs from generations of ancestral fisherman, learning the historical art of fishing has been of keen interest to me. It's not just about ease of use, or best of the best, or best value, or anything like that. It has been a labor of love, a passion for honing skills with careful practice, and immersing myself in a long, rich history. I am a technically inclined person to begin with, so rebuilding and maintaining old reels is a joy to me. My Dad's health has been in decline for some time, and has gotten considerably worse lately. Mentally and physically he is just about fully disabled now, and I came here to the Gulf Coast to help him. And in the meantime, I have had access to his 14+ fishing poles and countless tackle. Going out and investing in new gear would be dumb. I have access to ultra light 2000 series finesse spinning tackle, 3000, 4000 series for bigger inshore species, small baitcasters, spincasters, and a variety of conventional reels. But my Dad didn't have anything for shark fishing besides a couple of Daiwa Beef Sticks for surf casting, and an old boat rod that feels almost as stiff as rebar. His mental decline has been steady over many years, and his gear kinda paralleled it. He barely even remembers what he owns most days, and is so shaky he'll fall over trying to cast. He can't even remember where the good fishing spots are. So I have been doing my homework, and I have literally rebuilt every single reel in his garage and have created excel spreadsheets with measurements with photos and video to show improvements in performance. The only gear I desired that I didn't find was a reel to throw out some big baits from the shore. Sometimes I go out with my neighbors for boat fishing, but it isn't my focus. For a very small amount of money I was able to acquire and upgrade the Senator 4/0 and use it on existing rods. Now when I go out I typically throw one huge bait with the Senator (which has >300 yards of 90lb test), a medium sized cut bait on the Beachmaster (which has >300 yards of 40lb test), and then my hands are busy with a jig, lure, or whatever it is I am fishing lighter gear for that day. I increase my odds of landing something big, and it makes for very active fishing, which I enjoy. This is how I have fallen in love with fishing.

Worth mentioning: after moving to an aluminum spool + magging the Beachmaster, it is a dream to throw. I can cast it as far as any rod/reel combo I have available (or farther). So to get out on the beach and to be confident throwing baits with it, and having good-enough success with the Senator--again, this has all gone to plan quite nicely, and I would say I am doing exceptionally well. I have gone from knowing nothing at all about conventional reels, to mastering the art of throwing big weight, learning about conventional reels, their uses, and their history, rebuilding, and modifying/upgrading them in just a couple of months. To tell me it is time for major change and I should cut my losses is extremely negative and feels like a projection of your personal preference. I came to this forum to geek out on technical stuff and talk with like-minded people about a passion for fishing. To tell me I should quit now because everything is too hard, well... That may be what you would do.... I have proven to myself that this strategy is workable for the foreseeable future. Someday I will buy myself something easier to throw that has a high max drag and large spool capacity, but until then, I making the best of what I have available. I don't need to spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars more at this time. I have enough gear, skills, ability, interest in learning the art of conventional reel fishing, and I will continue to expand what I am doing day by day.


----------



## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

You have the wrong gear for distance casting in the surf and will suffer setbacks until you make some changes.

Get a Slosh30 or a Shimano Speedmaster III and a decent heaver and go somewhere where the Critters live and you will get bowed up.


----------



## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

As far as max drag, with a heaver surf fishing max drag is measured in how much pain in the crotch area you can endure. The Hawaiians like rods with larger butt sections to ease the bite, but most of the East Coast heavers have slimmer profiles, but the fish targeted on the East Coast are generally not monsters of the deep.

A Eight Foot Sandbar or a Seven foot Blacktip are plenty enough for me these days.

As for the bigger Critters I want them on someone else's gear.


----------



## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Negative is if you ask for advice about a pursuit you are new at and then after you are given it and you feel insulted because it is not what you wanted to hear.

At night I want 100% of my casts to be acceptable.


----------



## ABombs (Oct 13, 2020)

Garboman said:


> You have the wrong gear for distance casting in the surf ...


Wrong gear for distance casting? The gear ratio affects retrieval. How would the gear of the reel affect free spool casting?


----------



## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Gear as in equipment or tools or tackle.


----------



## ABombs (Oct 13, 2020)

Garboman said:


> Negative is if you ask for advice about a pursuit you are new at and then after you are given it and you feel insulted because it is not what you wanted to hear.


Yikes, buddy.... I explained myself pretty well. I posted video of myself heaving this nicely with minimal practice nor modifications. I wouldn't chime into someone else's hobby interest and tell them to quit now and consider it all a loss... Do you not value practice and developed skill? Do you have no love for vintage equipment? Do you have no tolerance for anything but the best, and will tell others to quit now instead of having productive conversation? Do you not appreciate a personal journey nor have compassion for your fellow human being?


----------



## ABombs (Oct 13, 2020)

Garboman said:


> Gear as in equipment or tools or tackle.


If you don't have anything productive to add then go post in another thread. I am interested in talking with people that have used this reel as I describe, or would like to talk about it, or talk about pros and cons of other options diplomatically. But to just crap all over it and tell me to give up now with an elitist attitude doesn't make for productive discussion. Might as well shame people for driving old cars, or for living in countries without all the comforts of the US, or whatever the case may be. We use what we have, we make things work, and it shouldn't prevent anyone from enjoying their life and passionate pursuits.


----------



## ABombs (Oct 13, 2020)

Harrymanz said:


> Or build a bait cannon


I've been looking at this.... Looks fun! Not sure I need another project, atm, but its not much more complicated than the potato launchers I built as a kid. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

I did not watch your video, sorry to chime in on your thread I have spent a lot of time around the greatest surf casters in the world and was providing what I felt was the truth. If your feelings got hurt perhaps you should get into some kind of Therapy.


----------



## ABombs (Oct 13, 2020)

Garboman said:


> I did not watch your video, sorry to chime in on your thread I have spent a lot of time around the greatest surf casters in the world and was providing what I felt was the truth. If your feelings got hurt perhaps you should get into some kind of Therapy.


1). You didn't read my posts.
2). You didn't watch my video.
3). Your knee-jerk impulsive was to back the poster who tells me to quit.
4). Your post is an appeal to authority without offering much of anything.
5). You get worked up and resort to bullying.

Hmmmm....  Thanks for your incredible contribution!


----------



## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

My contributions encompass a great deal of time and effort spent helping young fisher people. But for those who respond with scorn instead of thanks I can only offer this. 

GFY


----------



## rdbjr (Aug 12, 2009)

Abombs,
I understand exactly what you mean. After I retired almost 14 years ago I had much more time to return to fishing and other interests. Most all of my fishing in the past was using spinning gear. Like you I acquired some vintage Penn conventionals and learned to cast them. I also upgraded to aluminum spools and magged some of them. I've got some squidders, jigmasters, longbeach, 209's, 210's, 309's, 350 level lines and my favorite mag 10's. Restoring, practicing and fishing all these has been extremely fun and fulfilling. I also enjoy fishing ultralight spinning gear for panfish. Not all of us think we have to be tournament level distance casters with all the newest equipment to have fun fishing. Do what you want to do and fish the way that is enjoyable to you.


----------



## ABombs (Oct 13, 2020)

rdbjr said:


> Abombs,
> I understand exactly what you mean. After I retired almost 14 years ago I had much more time to return to fishing and other interests. Most all of my fishing in the past was using spinning gear. Like you I acquired some vintage Penn conventionals and learned to cast them. I also upgraded to aluminum spools and magged some of them. I've got some squidders, jigmasters, longbeach, 209's, 210's, 309's, 350 level lines and my favorite mag 10's. Restoring, practicing and fishing all these has been extremely fun and fulfilling. I also enjoy fishing ultralight spinning gear for panfish. Not all of us think we have to be tournament level distance casters with all the newest equipment to have fun fishing. Do what you want to do and fish the way that is enjoyable to you.


That's awesome. I want to get a Squidder at some point, along with a Daiwa SL30SH. I have a 209, but its left handed, and I prefer right.... I love the gear. Having options when you leave the house is so great. Yesterday I went to a beach spot where no one was around so I could put out a few lines at once and cast conventionals. It wasn't because that was where the best fish were. I just wanted to get out by the water and have some fun. And I prefer casting conventional reels over spinning reels after all this practice. I know the learning curve is steeper to get started, but it feels much better in my hands. Throwing heavy baits with spinning gear is tricky too because the line can cut your finger, and getting good release is tricky. I've tried using a Breakaway Canon Cast Aid on a spinning surf rod, but that has it's own awkward learning curve also. I've only used the cast aid once, and I'll be damned if I could get a consistent 100+ foot throw with it, and I messed up plenty of baits and rigs trying. Contrarily, yesterday I had a 90% success rate throwing big baits with the Senator & 10' surf rod--and I had no trouble getting baits out in the range of 300 feet. It was by far the champion throwing rig of the day. I think if I put the Beachmaster on a big surf rod I might even get more range. Maybe... But currently my Beachmaster is semi-permanently attached to a cheap 6'6" rod. I learn so much just by trying stuff out and taking time to reflect and talk it out. It is a highly rewarding process to work through it all.


----------

