# Bullets



## Finger_Mullet (Aug 19, 2005)

The other thread was titled trigger but we talked mainly about bullets. So I started a new thread.

I have only hunted with Remington Cor-lokts with a 6 mil Remington. They performed flawlessley. Actually they out performed Nosler Partitions hand loads. I can't give exact numbers on total deer killed with this gun but it was over 30. I shot over half of these deer with the Remington Corl-lokts. Every deer fell in its tracks. Not so much as a step was made. The longest shot was at 300 yards in Tyrell County, NC. The poor deer just folded up and kicked around a few seconds. The closest shot was 20 yards. It was a 185 # 9 pt. He dropped.

I loaded up some Nosler Partition bullets, 100 gr. I have shot approx. 10 deer with them. All but one have run. They left a good blood trail but the deer ran 20-75 yards. I woudl have to tip my hat to the Remington bullets. They are cheaper and perform as good if not better than a premium bullet.

Also, when all this bullet weight retention became a major issue I noticed the Ballistic tips changed. When they first came out they would explode upon impact. Deer died right there. Now they hold together better and still perform well but deer run. They leave a good blood trail but the shock is not still there.

I will probably get slammed for this but in my opinion the bullets that mushroom quicker and more violently dispatch the deer much quicker. When a bullet releases all of its force into a deer the deer is shocked and dies right now. When a bullet has a delayed or restricted mushroom the deer runs because the deer is not taking all of the shock of the bullet. It is passing thru the deer quickly and the total energy of the bullet is not taken by the deer. The job is still done exactly as the bullet was designed. 

My opinion is based on many years of hunting and tons of deer dispatched with all kinds of bullets and calibers. I am not talking about shooting deer with varmit bullets. I am talking about shooting deer with bullets designed for deer but not designed to retain 100% of its original weight. Winchester power points, Remington cor-lokts, Federal Classics, Ballistic tips. And my favorite Hornady SST bullets. I am sure I missed many but these are the ones I have experience with.

Darin


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

Tried a Fusion....shot a doe right behind the shoulder and she rared up and killed over backwards....Had been using Core Lokts...had to follow too many deer with em....even with heart and lung shots


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## mdram (Jul 18, 2005)

i actually like the ballistic tips in my 300 wby, never had a deer move, but well i usually do head shots 

i have the core-lokt for my 30-06, took the heart/lungs out of a buck last year and it ran @ 50yds.

xp3 in my 30-30, drops em like a brick


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

*One bullet for me*

and that is a Sierra Gameking ... especially in a boattial hollowpoint ... flat, fast accurate, and deadly .....

I've had lots of deer with a heart and lung shot run 25-75 too especially with other bullets ... now I try to shot them a little higher ... seems to drop them alot faster than the lower 1/3 shot 

NP are a tuff bullets ... good for pigs, bear and other tuff game but not much on smaller WT ... just blows thru to much


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## Rockfish1 (Apr 8, 2005)

surfchunker said:


> and that is a Sierra Gameking ... especially in a boattail hollowpoint ... flat, fast accurate, and deadly .....


I'm with you... 55gr in the 22-250, 130's in the 270, 140's in the 280AI, and 270's in the 375H&H, but I stick with the Spitzer Boat tails...


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## wolfgang (Nov 7, 2007)

I've had good luck using explosive/quick expanding bullets, but going to slightly heavier than normal weights for a given caliber. 

For example, I use Sierra Gameking BTs (Federal factory loads) and Nosler Ballistic Tips (handloads) in my .270 WIN. But instead of using the more popular 130/140 grainers, I opt for the 150s. Gives you the best of both worlds...fast, shocking expansion and a little extra weight for penetration when needed. I have killed 30+ deer with these bullets and have no complaints. And the Federals were good enough to make me give up handloading.


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## GPKIII (Oct 8, 2007)

I still think NBTs are the deal, but bullets are like heavers... many good ones on the market if you do your part. Put'em in the right hole and you'll get tired of cleaning the things. Loaded NBTs since 1987; .270, 7mmBR, .243, .300WM... great tools. Neck shots are instant gratification; body shots can get a lil nasty on the exit side. Coyotes don't like them much either.


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## ASK4Fish (May 4, 2005)

*i agree with finger mullet...*

i use remington EXPRESS core-lokt rounds for my 7mm. remington...they're 150 grains and i also have had no deer take another step from the scene...farthest shot maybe 250 yards but it took him down quick...hit 'em in the shoulder and theres nothing left of their blade of their backbone...


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## F I LetsGoFishin (Apr 24, 2007)

Finger_Mullet said:


> I will probably get slammed for this but in my opinion the bullets that mushroom quicker and more violently dispatch the deer much quicker. When a bullet releases all of its force into a deer the deer is shocked and dies right now. When a bullet has a delayed or restricted mushroom the deer runs because the deer is not taking all of the shock of the bullet. It is passing thru the deer quickly and the total energy of the bullet is not taken by the deer. The job is still done exactly as the bullet was designed.
> Darin


 I have to agree with this as shock is a big factor and without mushrooming there is minimal 
shock.
Hunting in florida with its small deer I have learned this over time that if you want a deer to stop NOW you have to knock it down and a lot of the newer designs in ammo just will not do that because they were designed for game larger than our southeastern white tails. In order for these rounds to work properly they must hit on a majior bone or other hard mass not just a thin rib or they just pass through allowing the animal to run on reflex. It is no less dead but is still on its feet and reflexes can carry it on its way until the muscles figure it out.


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## Finger_Mullet (Aug 19, 2005)

*Deer death tests*

In the past 2 weeks there have been an ontold number of deer to die because in front of me and my 25-06 and .50 cal muzzleloader.


With the muzzleloader the 2 deer I shot ran 100 plus yards. Both deer were hit in the boiler room with a 295 grain powerbelt in front of 90 grains of Pyrodex select. Both shots were excellent. Exactly where I aimed. Both bullets passed thru completely. 

The deer shot with my 25-06 was another story. 1 deer ran 25 yards and poured blood making an easy recovery. The remaining deer die right where they were shot. Not even a step was made. All were hit in the front shoulder on a broadside shot or just behind the shoulder on a quartering away shot which took out the opposite shoulder on the other side. 

A 100 grain bullet moving as fast as a 25-05 can push it is devistating. When a complete pass thru right through the heart and lungs was made the deer ran. When the bullet hit major bone (shoulder) the deer laid down. It had to be the shock of the bullet releasing more energy into the mass of the deer stopping it immediately. On a pass thru shot where no major bones was impacted the deer ran. I am posivite more shock or energy is delivered when the bullet is upset by major bones than just blasting through the rib cage and out the other side.

I agree with letsgofishing. The majority of the premium bullets are designed to perform on much larger specimins than are running around my deer woods. Northeastern and Western deer are much larger than souteastern deer.

My opinion.

Darin


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## Rockfish1 (Apr 8, 2005)

one thing about it... when your not hitting bone you're not messing up the eating either... a little tracking never hurt anything...  that's why when I meat hunt I use the 22-250 and head shoot'em...


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## Finger_Mullet (Aug 19, 2005)

*Tracking*

I agree in some cases a little tracking never hurt anyone. But in many cases you really don't want to track deer very far. The places I hunt are grown up cut overs and pines. The pines are young and briars and saplings are thick. It is almost imposible to get a deer out of some of the place they make their way to and die. 

If you are worried about a little meat loss I would shoot them in the head as well.

Darin


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## GPKIII (Oct 8, 2007)

Finger Mullet, I don't think the death run possibility will ever fade, regardless of what you push down the barrel. I can't imagine anything you could buy truly better than your 6mm & 25/06. Even shooting off the Cowan rest, nothing works perfectly, all the time. 
Some make it to the bush. In my part of the world, there is virtually no old growth, thus the lack of canopy gives us our briar infested deer incubators. All roses have their thorns; You know Bur rabbit's briar patch, is where that which you seek... sleeps. 
We've all done the research, I think you should shoot what you have the most confidence in, and never look back; it's a numbers game. 
Now, if I could just get my kid's .243 Handirifle to behave...


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## Finger_Mullet (Aug 19, 2005)

*Handi-rifle*

I have had experience with more than 1 Handi-rifle. I bought a .223 when they first came out. I had a trigger job and it was a sweet shooting gun. In late December I would get bored and shoot squirrels out of the corn pile. At 125 yards it would devistate a squirrel. 

I used it for a behind the seat gun for wold dogs, coyotes, cats, etc....... After a few years a guy wanted it more than I did. I sold it.

The next Fall I bought a 30-06 Handi rifle. It did not shoot very well at all. 3 inches at 100 yards.
The trigger was pulling at 8 #'s. I hauled it down to the gunsmith. He was an old guy that built guns for the military benchrest competitions. He worked with my father for years in the hosiery industry. He improved knitting machines and pattened the reslts. 

Anyway, He was a master gunsmith. He has cats and they are like his kids. He put my gun on his rack and told me to come back in 2 days. After 2 days he called and said he had it taken care of but he had a problem. He said his cat climbed up on his rack which he covers with a sheet to keep the dust off the guns. The cat took a piss in the sheet and it had gotten on the stock of my 30-06. He said it did not mess anything up but he just wanted me to know what had happened. I did not feel like it was a big deal. 

Every time I handled the gun my hands smelled like cat piss. I sold it about a year later. It shot just under and inch at 100 yards.

If you are having accuracy problems with a handi rifle try the trigger pull. If it is too heavy you are probably pulling it off and having consistancy problems. Just a thought from past experiences.

A .243 is a devastating deer caliber in the hands of a good shooter.

Darin


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## GPKIII (Oct 8, 2007)

That's hilarious & pitiful at the same time! There truly is a boat load of info on Handi rifles on the web, so I won't get into it here, but yes... H&Rs are like Forrest Gump's chocolate box...ya never know what you're gonna get.


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## GPKIII (Oct 8, 2007)

awww shux, I forgot... PETA has their office just above me in Norfolk. We shouldn't be posting on the slaughter of poor animals. However, if you want to kill dogs in Ahoskie...


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## Carolina Rebel (Aug 25, 2005)

I've always been more of a follower of the Elmer Keith school of thought, in that I like a bullet that will poke a hole all the way through almost regardless of what it hits along the way. Generally I can lay a deer down in its tracks through shot placement alone; I'm a huge fan of the high shoulder and base-of-the-neck shot, with either of those the deer will just about always drop. Of course in these scrubby NC woods with their abundant saplings and American Holly you can't always pick the exact shot you want, and sometimes you'll have to shoot a deer facing you, walking away, quartering sharply.....I like my 180 grain Silvertips in my .30-06 because I know almost anywhere I hit the deer, it'll be a little hole in and a big blood faucet where the bullet exits. On a straight through behind-the-shoulder shot you're looking at a .75" exit wound. On a shoulder shot, it gets alot nastier. I have had one bad experience with these bullets--a double-lunged buck ran 300 yards, bleeding well the whole way--aside from that, no complaints. I mostly hunt thick woods with slim shot opportunities, so I don't get to pick a good shot the vast majority of the time. I'm sure some will scoff, but I've had a few instances too where after shooting a deer I've had little sticks and twigs fall out of trees where the bullet hit them along the way.....I just can't picture a smaller bullet performing well in those situations. I wholeheartedly agree that the best bullet is the one you're most confident in though, that .30-06 load is definitely it for me.


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## Finger_Mullet (Aug 19, 2005)

I am with Will. Shoot what brings you good results. Shoot with what you are the most confident with. If you are not confident with what you are using you will most always be dissapointed in the results.

A good story on bullet performance that happened on Monday evening. My buddy has a corn pile about 75 yards behind his house. His wife is a nurse and works the 1900-0700 shift at the baby department at the hospital. She has been watching deer at this corn pile for weeks now. Her husband and son are hunters and chase deer all over the State. She up and decides that she wants to shoot the nice buck that has been visiting in the middle of the day when she is the only one at home. She tell her husband that she wants to kill a buck. He says, ok. On Monday evening 9 deer visit this corn pile. She picks out the biggest and tell her husband that she wants to kill that one. He says ok. Hands her his .270 and tells her how to shoot the deer. They walk out on the back pourch and she takes aim. All 9 deer are looking at them like they are crazy. He tells her to hurry up before they run. She cuts one loose, baboom!!!!! Down this old doe goes. Dies right there 10 foot from where it was shot. She is excited and gets ready to go to work. She calls me and tells me the good news and off to work she goes. My buddy calls back and said she shot it in the ass. Directly thru the hams. Deer die almost immediately. I guess it took out the artery in the hams and busted up her pelvis. 

Shitty shot placement and the deer does not run. She was shooting remington core lockts in 130 grain.

Darin


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

Damn Darin. I used 150gr in my 270 and took out both shoulders, a lung and a heart and had em run. Talk about lucky. 

Shot a doe with dads muzzleloader with iron sites one time because I hadnt shot mine, and shot her right in front of the hams, below the spine a few inches....took out the big artery. Kind of messed up some of the back straps though even though it wasnt that high


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## Finger_Mullet (Aug 19, 2005)

*Funny muzzleloader story*

I used to hunt with this guy who had a stroke many years before. My guess was he was in his 50's. He was a little slow but other than that he was a good safe hunter. I thought.

One day I dropped his off at the gate and he had a short walk up the road to his stand. He got out of the truck to get his gun out of my gun case while I took a piss. I had a round ball laying in my case. He said damn my ball rolled out and proceded to drop it down his barrel with no patch. It dawned on me what he was talking about and when I turned around he was walking off. I could not get him to stop. He was using a round ball with no patch and then he dropped another ball down on the first ball. I saw a potential problem with this. I drove down the road to my stand and waited. I could not get this out of my mind. I was worried that I would find him dead in his stand when I returned. 
Well, I left early to go get him. He was not there. I opened the gate and wdrove up to where he hunted. He had drug a huge doe to the road and was waiting on me to pick him up. He hit it right in the front shoulder. Dead deer. The shot was 125 yards and 1 ball hit it.

The following year he decided 2 balls was better than one. I dropped him off at his stand and went to mine. About an hour before dark I hear this cannon goe off. I knew instantly what had happened. One of the balls had rolled 1/2 way down the barrell and when he shot it blew up and killed him. I hauled ass over to his stand. He came out dragging this fawn doe. He had tied her legs together with his belt and she was laying there looking around. I did not know what to say. I pulled my knife out and killed her. I asked him what in the hell was he doing. He said he drug her 1/2 way back to the road when she came back to life. He sat on her and took his belt off and tied her legs together. Then finished the drag to the road. 

There was a big doe in the corn pile with the fawn. He pulled the trigger and the cap did not go off. One of the balls rolled out the end of the barrel. One the second snap it went off. The 2nd ball had to have rolled down the barrel part of the way to cause the boom that I heard. He hit the deer at the base of the neck and it ran just under the skin to her ham. Nothing but a big bruise. It did not enter the deer. Just between the skin and the meat. She must have been in shock for a few minutes before she realized what was going on. Then he tied her up and brought her out.

Needless to say I no longer hunt with this gentleman. 

That same year I shot a big doe and she ran. We was looking for this deer. she ran thru a bottom. James tripped and he caught himself with his gun barrel. He was shooting a Remington autoloader 30-06. He drove the barrel down in the mud to the forearm. I did not know this. When I found the deer I drug it back out to the cow pasture and loaded her in the truck. I heard this voice. It sounded like a voice from heaven. "Cover your ears!!!!" It took me a second to realize it was James and he had pointed the gun straight up in the air. His plan was to shoot the gun and blow the mud out of the barrel. There was over 12 inches of mud packed in this barrel. I screamed NOOOOOOOO!
I got him stopped this time. I took the guy home and cleaned the mud out. I guess me or James would no longer be here if he had pulled the trigger. He was right behind me when he decided to shoot it.

Another reason I do not hunt with him anymore. 

Darin


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## Carolina Rebel (Aug 25, 2005)

Hahaha damn Darin, sounds like you might need to write up a test to screen potential hunting partners. 
I took a buddy of mine from UNCP muzzleloader hunting for the first time last year. He's deer hunted 5 or 6 years now, killed a few deer with a rifle, but he was new to muzzleloading. I told him his rifle was already loaded, that thats what you do with a muzzleloader is keep it loaded until you see a deer......I guess in his excitement to load the muzzleloader he forgot this. I dropped him off on one logging road, and went up to my spot and waited. The radio buzzed, and he informed me that he was up and had loaded his muzzleloader. 
"WHAT?!" 
Back to the truck, I picked him up, took him back to the camper, tried to unload the gun but couldn't. We went back hunting and he just observed. 
The next day I rigged up a clotheshanger with a screw at its end, and got the top bullet out, then dislodged the top powder load enough to dislodge the second bullet. I decided to pop a cap and burn out the final powder load. I aimed at a telephone pole (there was nothing but powder in the barrel), yanked the trigger, and was rewarded with a POP! Hsssssssssssssssssssssss as the tail-lit powder column flew out of the barrel via rocket propulsion, widely spiraling through the air before impacting the telephone pole, falling down, and then catching the dry grass on fire. I honestly stood there in awe for several seconds before I ran and stomped the fire out, it was pretty neat. 
Dad was the cause of my craziest muzzleloader story though. The first year we muzzleloader hunted, my family used the $60 CVA Bobcats from Wal-Mart, old cheap sidelock things. They were pretty accurate at fifty yards with a 90 grain powder load, so we were confident in their capability. That first morning, a 1.5 year old 7 point came meandering past Dad. He aimed behind the shoulder, squeezed, and the deer collapsed. He got down 30 minutes later and walked to the deer, which picked its head up and looked at him, then tried to bolt. He shot it squarely in the neck and the deer fell again. He walked right up to the buck, which again tried to get up. Dad swung the now empty muzzleloader like a club, hitting the deer upside the head with enough force to break the plastic stock in half. The deer fell again, and Dad commenced to dragging. Fifty yards later he tried to kick free, Dad grabbed a handy limb and once again clubbed the buck into submission. He finally got the deer loaded into the truck, drove five minutes to the hunt club, told the guys there the story, and threw the deer out of the truck to begin gutting procedure. The buck lifted his head and began surveying its surroundings, much to everyone's chagrin. One guy, nicknamed Buck, yelled "G******, he's still alive!" and sprang into action, stabbing the deer in the vitals until it died. The first shot had hit the deer in both lungs, I'm not sure how it lived that long.....Guess it was just tough.


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