# abu 6500 ceramic bearings anyone?



## RWalleySA (May 2, 2010)

anyone know where i can find a pair of these at a good price?


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## FATBUOY (Oct 2, 2006)

Check with Jerry Foran @ www.hookless.com


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## Tracker16 (Feb 16, 2009)

Boca Bearings has them for 6500s


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## csurp (Dec 12, 2010)

FATBUOY said:


> Check with Jerry Foran @ www.hookless.com


ditto


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## RWalleySA (May 2, 2010)

anyone see a difference from stock?abec 5? abec 7? anone know what the stock abu bearing are? abec 3?


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

RWalleySA said:


> anyone see a difference from stock?abec 5? abec 7? anone know what the stock abu bearing are? abec 3?


Ceramic bearings aren't worth the price increase......You can take stock bearings (ABEC 3), remove the shields, clean ALL the gunk out of them and lube them and you will have all the bearing you need. I leave the shields OFF of my spool bearings so I can clean and lube them regularly with ease.

The best upgrade you can do is to remove the idler gear and replace it with a idler gear that has a bearing insert. If you want to upgrade bearings go with ABEC 5 SS and order them DRY from the manufacturer. When you get them remove the shields and lube them LIGHTLY with just a drop of high quality lubricant.


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## SmoothLures (Feb 13, 2008)

DrumintheSuds said:


> Ceramic bearings aren't worth the price increase......You can take stock bearings (ABEC 3), remove the shields, clean ALL the gunk out of them and lube them and you will have all the bearing you need. I leave the shields OFF of my spool bearings so I can clean and lube them regularly with ease.


If you do this you do need to make sure you regularly clean and relube!


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

SmoothLures said:


> If you do this you do need to make sure you regularly clean and relube!


If you properly maintain your reels you wont have a problem. I turn the open side to the inside of the spool for a little extra protection. I fish hard with my stuff and have never had a problem


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## RWalleySA (May 2, 2010)

anyone put ceramics in?


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## Tracker16 (Feb 16, 2009)

RWalleySA said:


> anyone put ceramics in?


I put a set of Boca abec 5 ceramic hybrids in my 6500 chrome rocket last year. I have only used it twice since then so I can't really say much other than they work.


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

The ceramics are great bearings don't get me wrong.......But I didn't see anything performance wise to justify the price. I can take a pair of stock bearings, work some magic on them, tell you they were ceramic upgrades and you would never know the difference. To be honest you can even tweak reels with bushings and get great performance if you know "what to tweak".

One of the main reasons I love ABU's

I have taken parts and pieces from 3 different model 6500's and rebuilt into a fishing machine!


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

RWalleySA said:


> anyone see a difference from stock?abec 5? abec 7? anone know what the stock abu bearing are? abec 3?


Stock are usually Abec 3 in stainless steel

I don't typically upgrade to ceramics in fishing reels, there really isn't a significant advantage for doing so.

I do put abec 5 ceramics in tournament reels for field casting. Ceramics can be run dry with no lube, but I would still lube them if putting them in a fishing reel to help ward off the saltwater. While the balls are made of ceramic, the cages are generally still made of steel and can rust if exposed to the elements.

If you are looking for performance upgrade, then stay away from the "cheap" variety ceramics.

A good ceramic bearing will run in the neighborhood of $15 to $22 each.

If you go bargain hunting,, well you might as well stay with the stock bearings.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Get them directly from Boca Bearings. They are great to deal with, and gave me a 10% discount when I ordered them direct. (plus free shipping) You won't get a better price through a reseller.

For the spool, I believe that they were $29.95 for the set. Dual levelwind ran me another $29.95, and the idler was $14.95. Those are my pre-discount prices.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

DrumintheSuds said:


> I can take a pair of stock bearings, work some magic on them, tell you they were ceramic upgrades and you would never know the difference. To be honest you can even tweak reels with bushings and get great performance if you know "what to tweak".


I don't want to be disrespectful, but you can't tweak a less precise bearing to match the performance of an ABEC-7. If it could be done, ceramic bearings would be pointless. Can you improve stock bearings? Certainly. But you can't match the performance of the more expensive bearing. (anyone who has seen ceramics performing properly would certainly know in a second which was which) 

I will not debate the usefulness or feasability of ceramics in a fishing reel. That is a whole subject in and of itself. Some people want the "ultimate of ultimates", some people love to tinker, and some just want to fish. You just need to figure out where you fit in, and there you are.


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

solid7 said:


> I don't want to be disrespectful, but you can't tweak a less precise bearing to match the performance of an ABEC-7. If it could be done, ceramic bearings would be pointless. Can you improve stock bearings? Certainly. But you can't match the performance of the more expensive bearing. (anyone who has seen ceramics performing properly would certainly know in a second which was which)
> 
> I will not debate the usefulness or feasability of ceramics in a fishing reel. That is a whole subject in and of itself. Some people want the "ultimate of ultimates", some people love to tinker, and some just want to fish. You just need to figure out where you fit in, and there you are.


Where did ABEC 7 "ceramic" even come into the discussion? ABEC 7 bearings are overkill for a FISHING REEL whether they are ceramic or SS. I can take stock ABU garcia bearings and match the performance of ABEC 5 ceramics no problem. I asked these same questions a few years ago, tested them out and found my answer. Ceramics are good bearings just not worth the price.

If the OP wants to spend that kind of money I would get a pair of ABEC 5 SS bearings from TG's that are "matched".


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

DrumintheSuds said:


> Where did ABEC 7 "ceramic" even come into the discussion? ABEC 7 bearings are overkill for a FISHING REEL whether they are ceramic or SS. I can take stock ABU garcia bearings and match the performance of ABEC 5 ceramics no problem. I asked these same questions a few years ago, tested them out and found my answer. Ceramics are good bearings just not worth the price.
> 
> If the OP wants to spend that kind of money I would get a pair of ABEC 5 SS bearings from TG's that are "matched".


All of the hybrid ceramic bearings that I have seen sold for fishing reels are ABEC-7. If that is not the case, my mistake. One thing that is not my mistake, is that the OP was asking about "ceramic" bearings. See there, it's right in the title.

No need to get all stoked up. I made it clear that I wasn't interested in an argument, and I am still not. See my ending note my last post. It's worth whatever a person finds it to be worth - that is not an arbitrary call on the part of either one of us. (it can be framed in several different contexts)


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## Tracker16 (Feb 16, 2009)

As I said I put abec 5's in one of my reels mainly just to try them. Since I am a fisherman and only play with distance casting as a way to get ready for fishing season I doubt I would bother putting them in my other reels. I'm not saying don't do it. You might love them. I just don't cast well enough see much difference


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

solid7 said:


> All of the hybrid ceramic bearings that I have seen sold for fishing reels are ABEC-7. If that is not the case, my mistake. One thing that is not my mistake, is that the OP was asking about "ceramic" bearings. See there, it's right in the title.
> 
> No need to get all stoked up. I made it clear that I wasn't interested in an argument, and I am still not. See my ending note my last post. It's worth whatever a person finds it to be worth - that is not an arbitrary call on the part of either one of us. (it can be framed in several different contexts)


LOL.....I'm not trying to argue here either. The OP was seeking advice from people and I simply gave my opinion. He can buy what he wants to buy.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

DrumintheSuds said:


> Where did ABEC 7 "ceramic" even come into the discussion? ABEC 7 bearings are overkill for a FISHING REEL whether they are ceramic or SS. I can take stock ABU garcia bearings and match the *performance* of ABEC 5 ceramics no problem. I asked these same questions a few years ago, tested them out and found my answer. Ceramics are good bearings just not worth the price.
> 
> If the OP wants to spend that kind of money I would get a pair of ABEC 5 SS bearings from TG's that are "matched".


And what, if I may ask are the specific "Performance" characteristics you are matching, and how are you "measuring" this performance?

To be honest, I do think bearing "consistency" is an issue and ordering one pair of ceramics can be a crap shoot. I find I have to order a number of them and then "match" them in pairs myself.

Bearings do generally require a break in period, so "judging" them straight out of the package may not give the whole picture.

MY experience is TG's bearings can be good and can be bad-- I have wound up with both from them, as well as a few other manufacturers.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Mark G said:


> And what, if I may ask are the specific "Performance" characteristics you are matching, and how are you "measuring" this performance?


Since you asked, I have to agree, and second that. Seems to me you also have to be able to measure total runout in the bearing races, as well as the size and shape of both the balls and races. (possibly even the cages) I don't think the average person even has the ability, (resource wise) let alone the technical know-how to accomplish this.

This is one of the reason one buys the higher rated bearings - consistency. Even if you think you are putting together the "perfect bearing", you still have to have a bit of faith that what you are doing is actually accomplishing anything. There are a lot of variables - both tangible and intangible - to add to the fact that you are already at the point of diminishing returns.


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

Mark G said:


> And what, if I may ask are the specific "Performance" characteristics you are matching, and how are you "measuring" this performance?
> 
> To be honest, I do think bearing "consistency" is an issue and ordering one pair of ceramics can be a crap shoot. I find I have to order a number of them and then "match" them in pairs myself.
> 
> ...


The "matching" refers to a pair equal in spin time (consistency). I don't order from TG's but I do order bearings in bulk and do my best to match a pair with equal spin time. I think it makes for a smoother cast with less backlash. It is a crapshoot getting a matched pair unless you buy in bulk which is why I mentioned spending a bit more with TG's to ensure you will probably get a good match if not dead on. I would spend the money to get an equal pair of ABEC 5 SS before I would spend money on ceramics. When I supertune reels my goal is to maximize the smoothness of the cast......any distance increase is just gravy.

I agree 100% abou the breaking in time. I make about 20 cast before I feel the bearings are singing the tune I want to hear.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

DrumintheSuds said:


> The "matching" refers to a pair equal in spin time (consistency).


How do you do this? What do you weight them with?

Sorry, just curious. I have my own testing methods, but I am always interested to know how others accomplish their methods.

I have a pair of ceramics that will spin for several minutes on a standard spool. (empty) While I won't even pretend to think that this gains me any considerable advantage in casting distance, I like knowing that my system runs smooth, and that it prolongs the life of my reel. (by decreasing friction and drag on the other components) In my mind, taking out all of the variables in the mechanical components gives me confidence that I only need to work on me, at the end of the day.


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

solid7 said:


> How do you do this? What do you weight them with?
> 
> Sorry, just curious. I have my own testing methods, but I am always interested to know how others accomplish their methods.
> 
> I have a pair of ceramics that will spin for several minutes on a standard spool. (empty) While I won't even pretend to think that this gains me any considerable advantage in casting distance, I like knowing that my system runs smooth, and that it prolongs the life of my reel. (by decreasing friction and drag on the other components) In my mind, taking out all of the variables in the mechanical components gives me confidence that I only need to work on me, at the end of the day.


I just spin them on an axle with a flick of my finger. I do this several times to try and get an accurate timing (I just try to get them as close as possible). I order all my bearings dry so I can control the lubrication......I also remove the shields from one side.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

DrumintheSuds said:


> I just spin them on an axle with a flick of my finger. I do this several times to try and get an accurate timing (I just try to get them as close as possible). I order all my bearings dry so I can control the lubrication......I also remove the shields from one side.


Not to discourage - hopefully it will be helpful to you - but to get a better feel for "matching", you really need to load them. Your spin time will be increased (up to a point) based on the load that you apply. And not in a linear manner. So what I am trying to say is, that the more you load them,(up to a certain point) the more you will see how they are really going to perform.

A good "standard", if you are really serious, is spool with your test bearing in one side, and a bushing in the other. NO brake blocks. 

Believe it or not, a bearing that spins freely when run unloaded may not necessarily spin so well when loaded. I'm not fully sure why, but I have seen this in every type of bearing that I have worked with.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

RWalleySA said:


> anyone know where i can find a pair of these at a good price?


Just call Boca order a 10 pack. Pick out the 2 you want and call me. I'll take the rest off your hands. I like um some hate um and others just don't know the difference.....Just don't buy the bottom shelf bearings.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

DrumintheSuds said:


> I just spin them on an axle with a flick of my finger. I do this several times to try and get an accurate timing (I just try to get them as close as possible). I order all my bearings dry so I can control the lubrication......I also remove the shields from one side.


I know a lot of people that use the spin test as a general guideline, and I'm not suggesting there is anything wrong with that, I use it myself.

I do think it falls a bit short in comparing ceramics to stainless steel for performance characteristics. You may be able to get the stock bearings to spin sufficiently for a flick test on an axle.

The difference in performance really only appears when you have the spool rotatating under load at much higher rpm. This is where ceramics don't heat up the way stainless steel do, and one reason they can be run dry without lubrication.

It's very hard to quantify the benefit of using ceramics, and I tend to agree they are not necessary in a fishing application, the true value lies in distance casting and is usually not even measurable until you get into the 200+ yd distances. I have heard varying claims of increase in distance between 2 and 5%. THat's not much, perhaps 6 feet on a 100 yd cast, if that. The difference is generally more on a longer cast, you may approach that 5 % mark at 250 yds, which would be an additional 37.5 feet, enough to make a difference to a tournament caster.

THe caveat is that just switching to ceramics won't equate to an "automatic" increase in distance, practice and perfection in casting does that. 

Even without an increase in distance, ceramics tend to have less of a chance of seizing up (still happens ocassionally) making them more durable for the heat they face on long casts.

Bottom line-- the vast majority of tournament users use them, but you can still find some guys that swear by the stock bearings-- they surely worked before ceramics came along, and will continue to do so.


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

Mark G said:


> I know a lot of people that use the spin test as a general guideline, and I'm not suggesting there is anything wrong with that, I use it myself.
> 
> I do think it falls a bit short in comparing ceramics to stainless steel for performance characteristics. You may be able to get the stock bearings to spin sufficiently for a flick test on an axle.
> 
> ...


When it comes to tournament casting I agree 100% with you. The methods I use to match my bearings are for "fishing" reels. I rarely if ever have the need to cast beyond 75 yards. When I tune my equipment I want my cast to go where I aim with the least amount of effort required to get there. I tried the ceramics and like them fine but the cost wasn't worth it (To me). I upgraded my idler gears with bearing inserts and added ceramic pawls. Couple that with a dry film lubricant and a good polish in the right spots and my reels run smooth as silk .......Took a LOT of tweaking to dial in my setup but well worth it for my purposes.


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## Hooked Up (Feb 6, 2009)

and here i thought someone said it wasnt worth the money ......and yet they..............nm


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

Hooked Up said:


> and here i thought someone said it wasnt worth the money ......and yet they..............nm


And yet they what?


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## BocaBearingComp (Feb 1, 2011)

I thought I would just throw my hat into the ring and let you guys know the type of spin test we do over here. We always suggest testing ceramic bearings by putting them under load. Fishing reel bearings are relatively small and ceramic is much lighter than steel so there is just not enough mass to see a prolonged free spin without a load attached to the bearing. The flick test seems to result in a perception that a ceramic bearing does not spin as long as a steel bearing, but as soon as you put both bearings under load the difference is noticeable. We also agree with the previous statement that new bearings require a short break in period, so comparing new bearings to old worn in bearings is not an apples-apples comparison. We typically just attach an awl to a bearing and give it a spin like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISOLkPB7Xt4

We will leave it up to you guys to debate whether or not ceramic bearings are worth it in a fishing reel, but they sure do spin smooth and long. 

[email protected]


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

BocaBearingComp said:


> Fishing reel bearings are relatively small and ceramic is much lighter than steel so there is just not enough mass to see a prolonged free spin without a load attached to the bearing. The flick test seems to result in a perception that a ceramic bearing does not spin as long as a steel bearing, but as soon as you put both bearings under load the difference is noticeable.
> 
> 
> We will leave it up to you guys to debate whether or not ceramic bearings are worth it in a fishing reel, but they sure do spin smooth and long.



Couldn't agree more with either statement. The ceramic bearings, if tested in a properly balanced load, will spin for several minutes. I have heard one of the forum legends here claim that his test rig will spin for seven minutes.


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## Hooked Up (Feb 6, 2009)

seven minutes is the easy part.......slowin um down... well thats a whole nother world


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Hooked Up said:


> seven minutes is the easy part.......slowin um down... well thats a whole nother world


Ain't that the truth-- we go to great length to ensure the fastest smoothest reel possible-- then sloooow em down with more mags, oil etc. LOL



Jason from Boca-- good to see you chime in-- always interesting to see how the company does things.. Now how about setting me aside some of them better spinners ---  J/k


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Hooked Up said:


> seven minutes is the easy part.......slowin um down... well thats a whole nother world


Yep, that's for sure. Isn't it nice to have the option, though?


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

The ultimate test is to put them in your reel with your lube of choice, tie on a weight and cast away allowing for a proper break in period. The performance to price will vary from person to person. I didn't see any difference with the ceramics but they work fine, are still in the reel I put them in and will remain in there because I spent good money on them.

Based on the results I got compared to SS bearings (while fishing) I made the decision that if I were going to spend money on several reels to improve performance I needed to look at other upgrades. I bought a bearing for the idler gear, drilled out the insert for it and switched over to ceramic pawls. Cost was less than $15 dollars per reel......


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## Hooked Up (Feb 6, 2009)

or you could take a chain saw to the level wind and save urself time and money servicing them........but its all about preferences including abec 3 5 7 and 9s......its america you no longer have to drive a buick like paw did....make the choice yourself


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## RWalleySA (May 2, 2010)

thanks guys


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