# Hawaiian Style



## Samurai

Before I continue,I wanted to explain why I started this thread.Since I've joined P&S,there has been some interest as to how we fish for Uluas(Giant Trevally) in Hawaii.Some have shown interst as adapting our style to use in your own waters for big game and I've been in contact with a few P&Sers about it.I am not trying to force our way of fishing on anyone as some may find this info useless and uninteresting.With that said,I don't mind going more in depth when time permits if there is a show of interest.
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This is a spot I frequent where we "slide-bait".The rods in the picture are 13'6" just to give you a perspective of the height of the cliff.---The lead and runner is cast out and the lead anchored to the bottom,than the bait/baits are sent down throughout the night.The reason for this is to cast out 100 plus yards and send down baits that are up to 5#.<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e80/808Samurai/runner2.jpg" border="0" alt="Image hosting by Photobucket"></a>
This is a typical runner.It consist of a 6-8' long 49 strand cable @250# test with a stop ring attached to the bottom.A leadline is in between the lead and the stop ring.This is meant to break on the strike but still handle the power of the cast.The mainline is tied to the top 3/0 swivel with a "Shorecasters knot" with 80# mono.
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This is another variation of a runner.The 80# mainline is tied with a Bimini Twist to form the double line,it is than tied to a 15' length of 250# mono,this is than crimped to the stop ring,finally the lead and lead line is attached to the bottom like the picture above.This system get thrown through the guides much like your shock line setup.
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These are the slides.The hooks are 16/0 and 18/0 Mustad Tuna Circles,attached with a haywire twist and barrel rolls of a #19 Malin wire,3/0 swivel than the "pigtail".The one on the top is meant for deeper water(50-300') the bottom is a modified Australian Slide that we use for shallow water(50 Below).
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These are some reels that are used for Slide-Baiting.They are modified Penn 4/0 Senator with a Newell Broadbill extension kit.The other is a Newell 550 with a Tiburon billet spool.With 200 yards of spectra and another 250 yards of #80 mono on the top these reels still sometimes get spooled.---I know some may say why such heavy gear.I've seen pictures of "The Point" and some big fish that you guys pull on.---You'd truly have to fish Hawaiian waters to understand.We have volcanic rock,coral reefs,etc..to deal with.Fighting an Ulua is not finesse fishing.It's button down the drag,grit your teeth and boost fishing.When he runs for the reef,you and your gear better be ready or all you'll have is a fishing tale.
Once again,if there is no interest in this type of fishing,I apoligize for posting and wasting space.There is/was no intetion of jacking up this board.---Aloha!!


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## Samurai

*Slides*

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For some reason the slides didn't make it.


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## CrawFish

keep posting I'm interested. Thanks for sharing.


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## AL_N_VB

Dude...That's Hardcore!!!!!

Thanks for the insight.....that is some super beef'ed up tackle...Are those reels magged..and are 100 yard casts common? You must have some large hands to grip that spool?
do you have any pics of the Ulua's ya fish for?


As for fishing platforms...fishin from a volcanic cliff is unimaginable!...so how do you get the fish up to the rocks?


Thanks fer sharin this unique technique you use!


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## CrawFish

Check this site out.

http://www.ulua-fishing.com/view_pictures.html


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## Samurai

http://www.hawaiifishingnews.com/100plus.cfm?order=ID Wow that much interest this fast.Try clicking on the anglers name and some have pictures.A 100# Ulua is a major feat for anyone and one is highly respected if accomplished.Most will go their whole life without even seeing one.


None of my reels are magged.I've tried throwing some before but they seems to die out on the final part of the cast.Most in Hawaii don't use magged reels.Keep in mind the spool diameter is much larger so the r.p.m.'s are not as bad as your Abus.Most will burn their thumb alot during the learning curve.---No you don't need big hands to cast those reels.I'm a mere 5'7".It's all in how you grip the rod and reel.Your thumb though need to be strong or it'll slip when you load the rod.

100 yards is do-able if conditions are good.The wind has a major factor on distance.The 80# mono has alot of wind resistance as you can imagine.I would say 80-120 is a average distance for most.Naturally the smaller gear throws farther.My Accurate Jig posted earlier is my "small-game" setup.That has 50# big game with 150 yards of power pro as backing.This with my 14' "bait-casting" rod will definitely do over 100 with 8nbait.


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## CrawFish

*Wow... Very Impressive*

First of all, you guys cast off the cliff, 80lbs test line, and over 100 yards. I just barely getting 100 yards with my small daiwas and abus stuffs. Second, how do you guys haul that 100lbs fish out of the water onto the cliffs. Very impressive. I guess, what were're doing in OBX is like panfishing to you guys.


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## Samurai

*Slide-gaffs*

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These are tied to a rope,the mainline is wrapped through the rings on the lower gaff and the mainline is than used to guide the gaff to the fish.When the hook goes below the fish,a steady pull on the rope and the weight of the fish will sink the hook in.Then the task of pulling begins(not a favorite part of mine) 
The upper gaff is known as a barrel-gaff.It is designed much like a throttle blade of a carbuerator.The flapper is open until lowered past the swivel/pigtail combo,when the rope is pulled the flapper closes and you pull the fish up by the hook.This works good when releasing fish as you put no holes in the fish.It also works well when the water is rough.Imagine your prize catch getting pounded against that cliff by big waves.I've lost more than I care to admit due to this.

I got nothing but respect for you east coast boys.I saw pictures of some damn big fish you guys bring up with 17#.Comparing Ulua fishing to what you do is apples/oranges.


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## CrawFish

Now the question, when is the best time for this kind of species. Obviously, my tackles are not the right tackle for the job, but I guess I can pull 100lb braided on and hope for the best. If I happen to stumble on your Island, where do I look you up. My life motto is to try most things at least once.


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## Samurai

*Slides?*

<img src="http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e80/808Samurai/slide2.jpg">

Now did it work?These are the slides that get sent down the mainline.

Crawfish,don't worry about the tackle.Just figure out how to get here.Samurai can take care of the tackle.---That's what Aloha is all about.


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## repair5343

One question nobody has asked are you guys mountain climbers??
This type of fishing is not for some of the older guys.
If you have to climb up or down I take my hat off to you Sir.


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## barty b

Hey Samurai, Aloha bro, I been checkin out that website hawaiifishing for a little while now, MAN I want to get out there and do that! I was telling my mom (she lives in waianae) about this type of fishing,she said she's seen some locals on clifs with "heavy gear" probably ulua fishermen. Man that is about as extreme as surf fishing gets, I will DEFINATLEY look you guys up when I go visit mom, MY crazy haole Azz wants an ulua


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## narfpoit

Hey Samurai Thanks for all the info. That is exactly the kind of stuff I like to see. That 100 pound club is cool I had seen that before but it had been a while. Thanks again.

John


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## Samurai

The spot posted above is definitely not for everybody.It is very dangerous but I do what I can to make it as safe as possible.People have died in their quest for "the one".---Keep in mind Uluas can be caught in more easily accessable areas.I have pictures of alot more spots,unsure if I should post some of those as some locals may get upset at seeing their "secret spot" on the net.You know how us surf-fisherman are about our favorite hole. 

Barty B,I also fish the Waianae coast and it is probally much closer to what you may be use to.Keep in mind that some go years without catching an Ulua.Many green horns will quit because of fustration.I've been fortunate enough to have good teachers and the oppurtunity to fish with some of the best.Many on this board have expressed interest in coming over.If any P&Ser comes over,I will do my best to get you on one but if catching an Ulua was so easy,it wouldn't be so cool when you did.---If I had the money,I'd want to go to "The Point" at the Hat.Nice pics on the HO site.


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## barty b

I remember talking to some guys out back of my moms condo, I think it's called the princess, anyway they were catching small fish,forgot what they called em, I never knew anything like this existed or I would have definately tried to hook up! I do remember snorkeling and seeing some. I thought they looked like a fish we have over here called a Jack Crevalle, only Ulua are bigger and blue (sort of).
MAHALO! For sharing your sport with us! Very Interesting!


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## chris storrs

braid and smaller reels....

im not trying to start a braid vs mono thing....but....why dont yall use smaller reels that cast further filled with heavy braid?

abrasion?

*note:ive never fished this way before....just wondering...


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## rattler

jeeez...cool...i know guys that can't walk 2mi downa beach...sitting on a cliff...casting...fighting a biggie...now i gotta go to hawaii before i die...thanks for the info...


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## Don B

Just FYI,

The Jerry Valentine Invitational tournamet is slated for Sept 30 & Oct 1 this year. Oct 1 will be Hawaii day with folks casting Hawaii Tournament style (40#, 60# and 80#). I expect a few people from Hawaii to be there as well as a couple of people from Texas giving it a go. It will be at Kingsville Texas which is about 30 minutes southwest of Corpus Christi. I would say that it's about an 80% probability to happen. It should be a fun day for all.

Don


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## Samurai

*Braid*

My opinion why not braid
1) Tight quarters.
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2) Abrasion.In my experience with braid,it is very poor in this area.The no stretch factor of braid works against you on "the rubs".
3)Cost.On the average,I go through at least four 3# spools of line.One 3# spool can only fill 6-7 reels.

Throwing a reel this size is not hard at all.I'm sure all of you guys would be able to do so with a little adjustment to grip and style.---Those interested may want to check out the casting tourney posted by Don B.BTW Don, feel free to chime in on this thread.


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## Don B

Hi Samurai,

This was posted before, but for those who missed it, we had a two day workshop back in August. I provided a lot of equipment for training purposes. Among other things, a wide (extended) 6/0 was available for use.

Here's a link to a write up by Brian F.

http://www.hanapaa.com/bbforum/viewtopic.php?t=980

On the first day of the workshop one of the attendees set up his 9/0 and did a little casting. During the two day event, Jerry Valentine conducted 108 training sessions. We really worked that Texan gentleman.

Regarding the use of braid, I believe you covered all the issues. Our line abrasion is a little more severe than usual. Coral heads and sharp rocks do havoc to lines. I'm not sure if you covered it, but rub line can be up to 300# mono. 

I do use braid on my smaller reels as backing to increase line capacity. This would be on JigMaster size reels and smaller where the target fish would be papio or oio.

Hope this helps,
Don


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## JAM

Real real cool stuff guys, I got family in Keihi(maui), but I live on Hatteras Island.. Looks similar to pin rigging just a much larger version... Again thanks good stuff.. JAM


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## striperswiper

what type of of rod do you use to cast a 6/0 size reel


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## narfpoit

I have a couple of questions. First, Do you make your sliding gaffs, or are they purchased? Second, what size line do you need to be able to slide it down? could you slide it down 25# or would you need higher. I also would like to know what rods you like to use. I klnow you said a lot of people use custom rods, so what blanks are they starting with. I have read about a few, just wanted to get an opinion from those who use them. 

Thanks again,

John


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## Samurai

*Rods*



striperswiper said:


> what type of of rod do you use to cast a 6/0 size reel


We basically use rods made specifically for our uses.Generally Slide-bait rods are much stiffer than our Bait-casting rods.Slide-bait would be where we throw the gear above,bait-casting would be throwing 8nbait.HO has a rod called the 13'6" Outcast "Heaver".They also has a 12' version.I'm not 100% sure but I think these are the same rods we use here as our small game rods.I have the 12' version wrapped as a big spinner used primarily to catch Oios(bonefish).The 13'6" is also considered a Papio/Oio pole.Much too soft to slidebait effectively with.---For some of the old timers,we use to use American Fenwicks and Sabre 540s with #18-#22 tips with a length of about 13'.---The new rods out are all made of graphtie and or composite.To put it in perspective,my slidebait rods can lift a 15-20# weight off the ground.I'll post pics later.

BTW I see alot of post reffering to "heaver". Just wondering exactly what this means. I have a good idea but was wondering.


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## narfpoit

A "heaver" as I understand it is any rod that is at least 10' long and can throw at least 8nbait.


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## narfpoit

Do you use the stiff rods for slidebaiting to aid in casting the large reels and line or is it to be able to put extra tension in line line so the bait will slide down better?
John


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## Samurai

well you need at the very least 9oz. to be able to pull the heavy mono a good distance.With this said,that weight will kill the "snap/recoil" of most softer poles.Therefore most will throw as stiff/powerful a pole that one can still effectively cast.The stiffer poles also aids in "boosting" the fish from the deep waters.Much like when a fish dives when trolling.It is also needed to keep the line tight so the slides go as far out as possible.Imagine the belly/slack in the line,if your line is not taught,the slides will only go a partial ways out.---If you wanted to use this system in shallow waters,try using the modified Austalian slides posted above.They use the wave action and current to get the slides down.Let me know what kind of terrain/waters you fish and I may be able to recommend something to try.


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## rattler

heavers...i have seen people throw 20oz+...the "old" heavers were like a broom stick and the reels were penn squidders or jigmasters...30lb line was "kinda light"...most used 40+...lots of current at the point...runs 11+knots...those were the days...


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## chinookhead

*an idea*

I'd use like 200 yards of 80#braid for backing just in case u hook the big one and fill up the rest with your prefered mono size, then u cut down on costs by just replacing the mono top shot as needed and always have that braid just in case.....just an idea


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## Samurai

narfpoit said:


> I have a couple of questions. First, Do you make your sliding gaffs, or are they purchased? Second, what size line do you need to be able to slide it down? could you slide it down 25# or would you need higher. I also would like to know what rods you like to use. I klnow you said a lot of people use custom rods, so what blanks are they starting with. I have read about a few, just wanted to get an opinion from those who use them.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> John


The gaffs can be bought locally.Some were made in the Pearl Harbor shipyard in the early days.As for mine,they are bought but I did some modifications to meet my needs.Attached to the end of the gaff is a 3/8" rope which bears the weight of the fish.You can slide it down any size line you're using.
The rods we use are Jeff Andrews(local blank builder),Outcast/Big Catch,Talon,All-Star,Conoflex and CTS.The last two are being developed by a P&S member with the manufacturers.Most of our rods are reffered to as names instead of numbers.Names such as Sliders,Blasters,Maxums,Slinger,O-zone,Launcher,etc...are some that come to mind.They are all good just different actions,tapers,etc...I personally use Big Catch,Jeff Andrews,All-Star,Outcast in all different actions.


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## Don B

striperswiper said:


> what type of of rod do you use to cast a 6/0 size reel


The rod and reel I learned to cast with was a Fenwick 16810 and a Penn 4/0 with 60# line and an 8 ounce sinker. Since there was no one to teach me casting, I ordered John Holdens book in 1981 and applied the British style of casting to ulua fishing. After I was consistant at casting 100 yards, I went fishing. Adjusting to the 6/0 wasn't difficult. The wide 6/0 does give me some strain. The first time I cast a JigMaster with 40# line on a Fenwick 1689, my thoughts were that "boy, these ultra light reels can really rip".  

We all learn differently and adjust.
After all, the saying is "variety is the spice of life".

Don


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## Brian F.

Howdy all, Samurai and Don have done a great job of describing how we fish here. As for the types of rods and action, maybe this puts it in a perspective that may seem more familiar. Many of us that have been doing this for a while started out using the Fenwick 16810, as Don mentioned, but that blank was typically cut down to get a desired action. Up until recently for sliding bait, I used a 16810 that was 12'-4" and had a #22 or 24 size Mildrum boat tip top. I think that translated into cutting the tip back about a foot and a half and then some from the butt. As for the action of the rod, without showing you what it's like, the best I can describe is this: I'm 190 and if I lean back to say about 45 degrees and the rod can support me without bending past the halfway point, then I'd use that for slide bait-style fishing. Maybe I'd like it to bend less for fish fighting purposes but it would be tough for me personally to cast.

Everyone tailors their rods differently to suit many different conditions of an area, style of fishing and casting. Keeping the line taut for slide bait fishing is a consideration because of the strong waves, surge and even current that can pull out your line from the reel. In general though, shorter and stouter for fighting a fish in rocky bottom or cliff type terrain but sacraficing distance in casting. Longer and more limber for more distance from a beach or less rocky area but a tougher or at least longer time fighting a big fish.

As for learning to throw a 6/0 or even 4/0, I think it's all a matter of your frame of reference. Before all of these very light and high speed reels, many used the old Pflueger Templar 1419 3/4 exclusively. Now THAT thing was heavy but there simply wasn't anything else around suitable so everyone just accepted it. Same thing with the rods. There were other brands that were popular before but the reduction in weight of the 16810 was a miracle. 

I was just thinking as I write this, maybe someone could try warming up with a reel that size and then switch to your regular fishing reels. I imagine it's like warming up in the on-deck circle with a donut weight on your bat. You could certainly play some head games at a casting tournament if you did that!

Aloha,
Brian F.


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## AL_N_VB

*Hey Don...*

For those that don't know...what Hawaiian surf fishin is about:

http://www.hanapaa.com/bbforum/viewtopic.php?t=980


Good stuff...

Here's ta wishin I was in Hawaii!


Aloha ,Boys!


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## narfpoit

Hey Samurai I just got back from the rod building show here in Charlotte, NC. I got to see a ulua rod made buy a guy named Dean I think from Kona or Kauai I cant remember which. Anyway It was pretty impressive. It was built on a rainshadow blank their 1569. some interesting features that I had not seen on rods previusly was a little tube wrapped onto the blank to hold the bell on, and also the the full metal rod butt. This thing was pretty intense. Anyway the blank was like $195 so that is going to wait for a while. Anyway thanks again for all the info from the Ilsands its been cool learning all about it. 
John


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## Samurai

Narfpoit,glad you got to see a Ulua pole.My only experience with a Rainshadow rod was feeling one in a tackle shop that I frequent.Don't know the model # but it was 14' in length.Felt like a "baitcasting" pole.Most rod blanks are going in the $200 range with finished rods $300-500 depending on components used.---Yeah the bell-holder is used to hang a bell that along with the ratchet,will alert the angler of a strike.---The butt-cap is used to protect the blank and most are made of stainless steel tubing.We put our rods in Aluminum sand-spike,pvc pipes that are cemented in the rocks,Rock spikes that are made of steel and pounded into the lava,as well as holes that are chiseled right into the rocks.

btw sending your things out either tomorrow or tues.


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## narfpoit

Yeah I am not sure how long, I think it was only like 12 maybe 12.5 feet long, but it said it was rated for 20-60 pound line and 5-12 ounces. So it sounds like it would still be a little lighter than you guys use. Seems like it was an east coast rod that they just dressed up like a ulua rod. It sure was pretty though, excellent wrap job on it. Blue and silver with matching guides. It is the same color scheme I am putting on my spey rod. Anyway thanks again.

John


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