# Another poaching bust



## baowie (Oct 4, 2007)

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2014/01/07/rockfish-poaching-bust-nets-2-baltimore-county-men/


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## snapperfc (Nov 22, 2013)

They should permanently revoke their commercial license


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

I would be absolutely shocked if that DIDN'T happen. 

There is a really easy way to solve this striped bass poaching problem. Just take it off the list of commercial harvests. That's right, DO NOT allow it to be sold.

Here in Florida, there is a commercial ban on snook. No market, no mass poaching. Problem solved.


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## whenican (Feb 21, 2013)

Revoke their priviledge to fish forever, make them pay the huge fines, throw them in jail, throw away the key.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

solid7 said:


> I would be absolutely shocked if that DIDN'T happen.
> 
> There is a really easy way to solve this striped bass poaching problem. Just take it off the list of commercial harvests. That's right, DO NOT allow it to be sold.
> 
> Here in Florida, there is a commercial ban on snook. No market, no mass poaching. Problem solved.


Absolutely...


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## fishhead (Oct 18, 2004)

AbuMike said:


> Absolutely...


Amen to that ... If they could do it for Red Drum then why not Striped Bass too?


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## UglyStickIT (Aug 1, 2012)

That's just sad this people don't understand that the rules are there for a reason the day the fish go extinct they won't have work


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## surfnsam (Apr 28, 2008)

I'm glad they caught these scum bags. I never order rockfish when going out to eat or buy them at the grocery store. Boycott the places that sell them .


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## zam (Jun 16, 2004)

Its good they caught them, but also a shame that some people try to use it as a tool to try to ban their competition for the fish. You must remember that there is a lot of poaching going on with recs also, so if you think commercial fishing should be banned because of this, you should also believe us recs should be banned to. I mean if its really about the fish and not a way to get more fish for us


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Disagree with you, zam. Sometimes the only way to prevent the extinction of a species, is to ban the commercial harvest. There are a few problem species, and the striped bass just happens to be one of them. Again, my example of snook in Florida. We have a healthy snook population here, thanks to the (wise) decision to eliminate commercial harvest. I'm very sorry if you don't believe this, but it's a proven fact. You can't afford to keep allowing the commercial harvest, with such a huge foreign demand.

Don't believe it? Time always tells the story!


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## zam (Jun 16, 2004)

I don't believe Stripers are anywhere near extinction, theres not many fish that are as plentiful as them, but even if they were, banning commercial harvests wouldn't be the only way to solve the problem, you could also ban recreational fishing, or you could do something that I think would be more fair and just have more restrictions on everyone, just doing something like cutting our harvest from two fish to one fish would make a huge impact, then cutting some of the poundage off the coms would make them very plentiful (but over population can be just as bad, but that's another subject). It wouldn't be very fair to the American people to totally cut them out just so us recs can have even more fish to catch and harvest, recs already harvest way more Rockfish now and we are fewer in numbers then the people that choose to buy their fish


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

If you can't control the harvest now with the present limits, there's no way you're going to be able to control it with different limits. That's just not even logical.

Now, if you take away the market for the fish, you're not going to 100% eliminate the poaching, but you're going to make it so lucrative that only a few will do it. And the population will rebound. 

I have seen this very scenario play out.


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## zam (Jun 16, 2004)

For one thing, us recs poach far more fish then coms do. And also, recs already harvest almost 80% of the Striped bass, just cutting our limit in half alone would put a lot more fish into the system them banning the entire commercial harvest. The fish that die after being released by recs is larger then the entire commercial harvest. That's not an opinion that's a fact. that's why I always think its hypocritical when a rec criticizes a commercial Striper fisherman.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

There are shore based "recs" who sell fish to markets. (read: poachers) I could show you some in our area right now. But not for the species that really matter. Take away that commercial market, and it will only be sold in the "back room", and very few people will ever see that. Not a perfect solution, but a damn good one, as the fish markets are way less courageous to sell bush meat than the poachers who would stock them.

You are improperly using statistics, BTW. 80% of rec harvesting of striped bass could still include those being poached by unlicensed fishermen. How do you know, anyway? To quantify that, wouldn't one have to positively identify 100% of the harvest?

I'm not going to continue arguing this, because you are flat out wrong on this one. Again, the Florida Snook is a great example of saving a species by outlawing a commercial harvest. The parallels are exactly the same. I know you fellas up that way like to hate on all things Florida, but this is one thing we got EXACTLY right, and there isn't a single fisherman that I've ever met that disagrees with the decision. Not when you see the health of our fishery now. You'd be jealous to have the populations of stripers that we have of snook.


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## zam (Jun 16, 2004)

I've never fished for snook in Florida before but from some of the shows and videos I've seen, I think The Striper fishery is better, Its not uncommon to go out on the bay on a good day and catch over 100 fish if you wanted with many over 30". they are very plentiful, some people that try to ban commercial fishing claim they are in trouble but they are not. comparing snook to Stripers is like comparing apples to oranges anyway. some fish would be better not being fished commercially (example large mouth). I know I wouldn't want to see a time when the only fish you can buy is farm raised so sport fishermen can have easier fishing
I would go on more about banning commercial fishing but Its easier to just put up one of my old blogs http://zamsfishing.blogspot.com/2012/08/fisheries-conservation-what-many-dont.html


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Isn't it a bit of a mistake to suggest that a species harvested plentifully in one localized area, is indicative of the health of the species, overall? I mean, if you are catching in abundance at one of the major congregating points, how does that compare to fishing in a migration lane, for example?

I could easily stick a scoop into a bulk coffee bin, and get 100 beans out of that one scoop. The relevant comparison, is when you compare the amount of remaining beans to the overall level of the bin. Or, the remaining number of available bins. Logically, there comes a point when you realize that your next scoop of easy to scoop beans, might be pushing you close to the bottom of the bin.

I don't think that the people responsible for managing the fishery are overestimating the threat to the numbers. Note: I said that I don't CHOOSE to believe. (which is your case, also, in keeping with honesty) There are mathematical formulas which are very accurate in providing a model for the depletion of a species stock. Yes, it goes beyond simply what the eyes see. They do not, however, account for environmental or biological disasters, (pollution, disease, etc) and therefore, always require a buffer. 

At the very least, there is nothing wrong with a moratorium on commercial harvest to ascertain the effects.


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## Nova Fisher (Sep 11, 2013)

Virginia already has a complete moratorium for the river herring. Is it working?


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

If you have a moratorium that isn't showing positive signs, that's a good indication that you've waited too long. Like I said, there are formulas that are used to determine a threshold for the sustained population of a species. Not knowing much about alewife and herring, I did a quick Google search, and found this little tidbit from the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission: (which is rather shocking)



> Commercial landings for all these species have declined dramatically from historic highs. Commercial landings by domestic and foreign fleets peaked at *140 million pounds* in 1969. Since 2000 domestic landings totaled less than four million pounds in any given year, with a historic low of *823,000 pounds* occurring in 2006.


That means the commercial harvest was 170 times LESS plentiful in 2006 than it was when the record keeping began over 50 years ago. So, before you become too cynical or sarcastic about efforts to maintain healthy fishery, understand that your state has had a LONG TIME to handle the problem, and kept enough data to recognize that there was a problem. That being said, there is no good reason not to ATTEMPT to save what's left of the fishery. *Wouldn't you agree?*


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## Nova Fisher (Sep 11, 2013)

I agree 100%. Keep what we have and possibly improve it. The herring in the Potomac are more than plentiful, you can almost walk across the river in the spring. Just frustrated that we cannot fish for them when you see POACHERS in DC pulling them out by the 100's. Something needs to be done for the Rockfish/Stripers so that we can continue to fish for them.


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## Fresh/Saltmaniac (Apr 17, 2010)

solid7 said:


> I would be absolutely shocked if that DIDN'T happen.
> 
> There is a really easy way to solve this striped bass poaching problem. Just take it off the list of commercial harvests. That's right, DO NOT allow it to be sold.
> 
> Here in Florida, there is a commercial ban on snook. No market, no mass poaching. Problem solved.


I agree poaching is a problem, but when it comes to numbers striped bass are the healthiest population in the bay, so stopping the commercial harvest is a bit overkill. Why make honest watermen pay such a huge price for a few criminals? What we need is more manpower from the NRP.


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## zam (Jun 16, 2004)

If there was more manpower and there were more poachers getting caught, then the people against com fishing would just use that as a way to claim its out of control. I wish DNR wouldn't constantly run to the news media every time there is a bust, make me suspicious that there are people working for them that are out to get watermen


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Hey, just so we're clear - I'm not against commercial fishing. But there are some species that are irresistible for coms to poach to extinction. Like it's crack to them, or something. It seems like with some fish, they don't give a damn if it's going extinct - they'll just hit it hard until it's gone. I hope to hell that you guys are keen to this, and stay one step ahead of it. Be part of the solution, not the problem.


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## zam (Jun 16, 2004)

I don't know, seems to me you have some irrational prejudices against watermen


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

zam said:


> I don't know, seems to me you have some irrational prejudices against watermen


Well, if that's what you think, it must be true...


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## rongcon1 (Apr 4, 2009)

baowie said:


> http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2014/01/07/rockfish-poaching-bust-nets-2-baltimore-county-men/


Just SAD. They are paying the price. Lesson learned, I hope.


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## Da Angler (May 13, 2008)

And the nerve of DNR for fining the guy who keeps the only rockfish he may catch all year or for the next 2 to 3 years thanks to guys like this even though it is 17 1/2 inches!!!!


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## jerseysalt (Jul 8, 2005)

I agree with solid7....it believe fla banded all gill netting in the bays......I know we need waterman for our bait.....but the sale of stripers would stopped if they were a com ban of them....there are a few states that the sale is banned and no comm fishery...ck out stripersforvever.com......I think ny has a hook and line fishery for comm....JS


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## transamsam98 (Sep 21, 2009)

Same argument that happened with yellow perch, the same proposal that happened with yellow perch, so do y'all really want the same results as the yellow perch? Btw yellow perch commercial fishing got canned , improvement have yet to be seen several years down the road. Think about that one. I firmly believe the first change should be one 28 or bigger rockfish per person up and down the coast. And also commercially no fish larger than 28inches (currently no larger than 36in the bay) should be kept. will this work sure it'll help if people actually obeyed the rules but poacher are gonna poach wether they have a comm license or a rec license or a charter license if they desire


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## transamsam98 (Sep 21, 2009)

Btw for those not in the know charter and comm guys must report all fish regardless of species that come over the rails even if released , the paper work is time consuming and a pain but I make sure to submit mine monthly and report all fish , yes spot perch croaker shad ly rockfish blues Spanish toadfish everything


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## cpicken (May 16, 2005)

*Thx for posting. Now, hopefully they won't get a slap on the wrist. *


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

snapperfc said:


> They should permanently revoke their commercial license


Yup. Agreed.


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