# are we building heaviers too strong?



## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

I got my first big drum this weekend, a 50 incher from the pier. I landed it on a WRI 7-dust that I wrapped myself. I set this up as a heaver and was worried that the smaller blank would break on a big fish vs. something larger like the fusion mag. But it didn't, in fact I was able to muscle him up the pier with the 7-dust. It fought the fish magnificently, no hints of breaking and the fish was taking out line with my saltist 30 set to max drag. This is a stiff blank and it was bowed over pretty good.

So this got me thinking, do I really need anything stronger? And what is the breaking point of these blanks? It seems like we could make blanks smaller and still have enough power to wrestle in the big boys. Or is the extra thickness and strength necessary to prevent breakage during the cast? It's obviously better to have too much strength than not enough. But if we could build blanks that perform well enough, we could make them cheaper without sacrificing quality. Or if blank manufactures want to keep the price high, invest the cost savings into things like enclaves that increase quality.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

you muscled a 50inch drum out the water and on a pier using a rod? Hmmm.. I wouldn't have thought that was possible. It will be interesting to see the replies you get..


What's the average weight of a 50 inch drum?


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## 757 Fire (Jan 22, 2010)

I think he forgot to put a "to" in there. Pretty sure it was suppose to say he wrestled him up to the pier. the drag on a saltist is no where near strong enough to crank your drum straight up. However to answer your question i believe the blanks are made so large and long because of the amount of power exerted in the cast not as much for reeling in the catch.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

757 Fire said:


> I think he forgot to put a "to" in there. Pretty sure it was suppose to say he wrestled him up to the pier. the drag on a saltist is no where near strong enough to crank your drum straight up. However to answer your question i believe the blanks are made so large and long because of the amount of power exerted in the cast not as much for reeling in the catch.


+1

The seven dust is a nice "light" heaver, however it wouldn't be my go to choice for casting out 8 & bait or heavier pay loads. It does play a fish nicely, maybe even better than some of the heavier rated, stiffer sticks.


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## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

757 Fire said:


> I think he forgot to put a "to" in there. Pretty sure it was suppose to say he wrestled him up to the pier. the drag on a saltist is no where near strong enough to crank your drum straight up. However to answer your question i believe the blanks are made so large and long because of the amount of power exerted in the cast not as much for reeling in the catch.


Yes! Sorry about that. I muscled the fish TO the pier and then lifted it in a pier net. One word does make a big difference.


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## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

kmw21230 said:


> you muscled a 50inch drum out the water and on a pier using a rod? Hmmm.. I wouldn't have thought that was possible. It will be interesting to see the replies you get..
> 
> 
> What's the average weight of a 50 inch drum?


I left off the word "to" as explained above. I don't know the weight, but I guess he was in the 50-60 pound range. He had a nice belly on him, like me  The pier operator wouldn't weight it because drum are protected, someone weighed one a couple weeks earlier, and there was some public outcry about that incident. So no weight for me and I didn't get the girth either.


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## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

Mark G said:


> +1
> 
> The seven dust is a nice "light" heaver, however it wouldn't be my go to choice for casting out 8 & bait or heavier pay loads. It does play a fish nicely, maybe even better than some of the heavier rated, stiffer sticks.


Yeah, I was pleasantly surprised how well it fished. I've caught a 20-30lb ray on my fusion mag and that fish barely caused a bow in it. I imagine the mag would have beat the drum silly. 

Which feeds back into my original post, I think the 7-dust was much better at fighting the fish and want that same blend of finesse and power in my heavers. I guess I want my cake and eat it too.


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## rocket (Dec 1, 2008)

A few years ago, Tommy Wheeler was at the Striper Showdown talking about his blanks. I recall that he stated that his blanks were designed primarily to get the bait where it needs to be. How well the rod "fights" a fish was secondary to that in his opinion. I'm not sure you can have your cake and eat it too. If a rod is optimized for casting, you are going to lose a little when it comes to fighting and vice versa.


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## chuck(skidmark) (Jul 11, 2004)

You can catch a 40 lb. drum on a 7' Walmart rod with 12lb. test line. I have seen it done more than once. Not especially good for the fish and certainly not the type of outfit you should target a big drum with. The Seven Dust absolutely is going to max out at 8ozs. and if you cast like you say you do you should probably only be throwing 6ozs. with it. An Inferno, Nail or Magnum will help you kick a fishes ass in the shortest possible time in snotty conditions because of the power in the blank. This really comes into play when you are 15' above the fish in heavy current and are trying to lead him into a net. If you are serious about Drum fishing from either a pier or the surf you need to have a rod you can cast at least a 10oz. sinker and bait with. It might be fun to "play" a fish and enjoy the fight....but...,whipping him quick and getting him back in the water should hopefully be your goal. Better for the fish.

Nice fish you caught, hopefully the first of many. I've been fortunate enough to catch quite a few over the last 10 years and have yet to get a 50" FL drum. They are a rare catch indeed. Closest yet was 49.5" FL.


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## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

Ive got them on 7 foot rods with 12 pound test and slammer 360's.
The rods are desigend to cast the bait (load).


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## Ed K (Mar 1, 2007)

Another thing to add besides being designed for casting, is where they were designed to be used the OBX and the current involved. Having fished the old Buckroe pier ther is not much current there to deal with.


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## RoryGoggin (Jan 6, 2005)

Yeah, I think the idea of a "heaver" is that it can throw 8 (or more) & bait, not that it can horse in a fish. :fishing:


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## drumjunkie (Jun 28, 2008)

Agreed, and I would guess that the load on the rod is higher during a typical cast than pulling a large fish in. This would be evidenced by the need for a shock leader during a cast vs. not breaking the main line during the fight if that makes sense.


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## jlentz (Sep 11, 2005)

drumjunkie said:


> Agreed, and I would guess that the load on the rod is higher during a typical cast than pulling a large fish in. This would be evidenced by the need for a shock leader during a cast vs. not breaking the main line during the fight if that makes sense.


This is true. You are never going to put more pressure on a heaver than you do during a cast. Most rods that I see break occurs during the cast, due to a damaged rod, or from user error. User error includes high sticking and trying to lift a fish out of the water among other things. Using 15-20lb mono you will never put enough pressure on any good heaver to break it. Of course once you have some of the shock leader on the spool it is possible to break the rod, but again I would write that off as user error. Now using braided line is whole different topic that I do not want to get into. Also I believe that the rating on surf rods that recommend line over 40lb are just asking for trouble especially when spooled with braid.

John


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## Don B (Jul 28, 2001)

The thoughts presented have been regional and it is understood as this is an east coast board. Here's a link that may provide a wider perspective.

http://www.ulua-fishing.com/hff/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8499

Added, Here's a 5/19/10 catch:

http://www.hawaiifishingnews.com/100plus_d.cfm?ID=600&order=ID


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## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

Don B said:


> The thoughts presented have been regional and it is understood as this is an east coast board. Here's a link that may provide a wider perspective.
> 
> http://www.ulua-fishing.com/hff/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8499
> 
> ...


Dang, what kind of rod is/was this?


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## Don B (Jul 28, 2001)

I believe the thread mentioned a mix of a Fenwick 16810 and Sabre. In the 70's the popular rod was a Sabre 540 mounted on a 4 or 5 foot extension. In 1980 or 1981, Fenwick introduced the one piece 16810 (168" or 14', 10 power). It looks like parts of each were used to make the hybrid. 

The 16810 was capable of carrying a Penn 6/0 with a Newell extension kit (9/0 capacity). These were usually loaded with 80 or 100# main line.

The reel seat is a size 32.


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## Rockfish1 (Apr 8, 2005)

Aloha Don just got back from Oahu, tried to call several times but no answer... would have liked to come over and check out your shop... did catch one ulua about 7-8# whippin a Deadly Dick at Barbours Point... maybe on the next trip... Dale...


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## Don B (Jul 28, 2001)

Hi Dale,

I haven't left the island since last October. We do live close to the mountain range and cell reception in very poor. 

"did catch one ulua about 7-8#"
Technically, Ulua start at 10#. Less than 10# is a Papio. 7-8# whipping is a nice catch. Feel fortunate that you caught a nice fish on your first try.

Best wishes,
Don


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## Sandcrab (Mar 20, 2002)

Summer is the wrong time about "going light" for large fish. It's better to horse them in before their oxygen content gets to high and kills them after you release them... 

Everyone is right about surf fishing and the need to be able to cast heavy weights and a hunk of bait... No wippy rod can handle that...

Sandcrab


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