# the problem with bucktails and king rigs



## bigbass14.3 (Mar 8, 2006)

hi guys I have king fished for years ( 20+ ) and I have one thought that I have noticed lately. I just returned from a trip to the outer banks and I spent two days king fishing I have alot of friends that I fish with on various piers along the east coast but, I have noticed that around the outer banks the cobia fishing is better than to the south which brings me to this question for thought . I think throwing bucktails at cobia that are after someones king rig should not be tolerated unless it is your own bait. I have had this done on two piers in nags head one a nuber of years ago and one thurs. both times a nice cobia was about to eat my bait ( within 2 feet of it ) and some one throws there bucktail at it and spooks the fish. I thinks this should not be tolerated we all fish for the same thing and sould have a chance just like anyone else, I have no problem with it if he not in the baits but when they are leave them for everyone to have a chance. 


what are your opinions on this matter please?

Bigbass14.3


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## wdbrand (May 24, 2007)

*buy*

the pier.


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## striperswiper (Nov 30, 2004)

make sure they dont throw near your rig. its ok to bucktail a fish as long as its not by your bait. Open your mouth and say something next time


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## HStew (Jan 8, 2009)

People that stoop so low as to use that kind of behavior should be outcast and made to fish for a month of Sundays with a pink barbie outfit and a dirty hot dog for bait !!! I would have been more than sorely pissed to say the least.


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## wdbrand (May 24, 2007)

*Bigbass,*

my reply was what I wish I could have afforded a 100 times, not a smart answer. They can't be taught, at least by conventional methods, since they don't know better. You ever watch a school of fat alberts come smoking past the tee? One needs a flak jacket and helmet. And it don't make any difference how many rigs are out. The touron jerk jigger crew comes running and will stomp your gear in the planks. They throw jiggers between rigs and both sides. The fun starts when several are hooked. Mostest fun I've had in years was on Avalon. Big spot bite was on and you was lucky to get two casts in without getting crossed. Finally said to hell with this and moved down the pier. Just so happened several small schools of skates were on the north side cruising out to the end. Put a treble hook on a crap reel and snagged one. So happened he headed due east and that was a site to see. Cut the line after 50 yards or so and had plenty of rail space to spot fish.


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## bigbass14.3 (Mar 8, 2006)

I understand what you mean, and as far as saying something I have and the response I get is " if you don't like it leave " or my favorite " I saw it first" if I could buy the pier It would be just like the ones to the south. Since you pay more to king fish only king rigs are allowed on the end and and they have no sections for jiggers only, the only bad thing is that they don't see cobia like they do in nags head area ( I am talking about below hatteras) but they catch way more kings just not any big ones most are snakes ( 15-25 lbs.).


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

bigbass14.3 said:


> I understand what you mean, and as far as saying something I have and the response I get is " if you don't like it leave " or my favorite " I saw it first" if I could buy the pier It would be just like the ones to the south. Since you pay more to king fish only king rigs are allowed on the end and and they have no sections for jiggers only, the only bad thing is that they don't see cobia like they do in nags head area ( I am talking about below hatteras) but they catch way more kings just not any big ones most are snakes ( 15-25 lbs.).


 Imho,and have said this many times.. DMF allows NO dropnetting south of Cape Lookout,but does allow it north of Cape Lookout... Before dropnetting was "imported" from Fla,ALL of Carolina coast from "down south",Nags Head,and Hatteras had inshore pier kings everywhere.. Most fish were as you described,snakes.. This means you have a healthy population of inshore kings down south... jmo 

As far as someone throwing a bucktail into the rigs,the regulars should have been raising h*ll... Same as if someone throws out a bottomrig in the middle of a bunch of pinriggers.. Yeah,they MAY catch a cobe that way,but more than likely it will be a ray,that will tangle every rig out there... A certian amount of ettiquet should be on any pier,and bucktails thrown into the rigs is about like someone sneezing into your dinner plate....


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## ezz-ed (Jan 6, 2004)

I fish Avalon and I agree bucktails are a pain, but the rule of thumb is u can throw before fish hit the king fish area and in the middle or if the fish is going out beyond the baits. most live baiters also have a bucktail. fish thursday and friday saw 17 cobe one caught on a bucktail midway of the pier and i caught a 8 lb on live bait--fish were all over baits but would not eat


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## b3butner (Oct 1, 2003)

bigbass14.3 said:


> hi guys I have king fished for years ( 20+ ) and I have one thought that I have noticed lately. I just returned from a trip to the outer banks and I spent two days king fishing I have alot of friends that I fish with on various piers along the east coast but, I have noticed that around the outer banks the cobia fishing is better than to the south which brings me to this question for thought . I think throwing bucktails at cobia that are after someones king rig should not be tolerated unless it is your own bait. I have had this done on two piers in nags head one a nuber of years ago and one thurs. both times a nice cobia was about to eat my bait ( within 2 feet of it ) and some one throws there bucktail at it and spooks the fish. I thinks this should not be tolerated we all fish for the same thing and sould have a chance just like anyone else, I have no problem with it if he not in the baits but when they are leave them for everyone to have a chance.
> 
> 
> what are your opinions on this matter please?
> ...


I agree completely.


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## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

I usually hang out on Cherry Grove in SC, and this summer was the first time I'd ever king rigged off a NC pier. We don't see very many (if any) cobia down south, so bucktails were a completely new thing for me.

I fished Nags Head at the beginning of the summer, and every time a group (pod, school, flock?) of rays moved in the bucktail fishers moved to the rail with rigs ready. Nags Head has an area reserved on the end for throwing lures and I didn't see anyone throwing outside that area. It was still a bit strange for me to see the lures going out off the end, because at CG we rope off the entire area for king rigs and jigging is not tolerated unless you have a rig out. And even then it's only Gotchas for the occasional school of blues.

If another fisherman threw a jig anywhere near my pin rig, I would have a serious problem with it. If that cast caused a fish to spook off my bait the problem would multiply alot. At the very least I would have to say something. Pier management should lay down clear rules rearding where bucktails and jigs can and cannot be thrown.

Evan


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## bigbass14.3 (Mar 8, 2006)

I was on a pier in nags head thurs. and had a nice size cobia about to eat my blue when someone from the other side came running with bucktail in motion he made a throw after I said not too and hit the fish on the head this cobia was only a few inches from taking my bait off the surface his response was I forgot you had a rig there, and that locals have priorty ( and yes we almost came to blows but I am better than that) later after having several cobia check out my bait this same person put out a bottom rig with a spot head less than 1' from my rig water was so clear could see the bottom and his bait. I just think this rediclous .


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## GreenFord (Apr 11, 2009)

NC Pier Fishing Law....Section 3.4.1 People has cast on top of your live bait may be pushed over side of pier and used for shark bait.....


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## bigbass14.3 (Mar 8, 2006)

I like that where do you get one?


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

Sort of like the guys throwing snag rigs when I'm standin' on the planks with my net waitin' on the school to get closer ... .

Then again, I ain't supposed to be nettin' off the pier.


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## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

Newsjeff said:


> Sort of like the guys throwing snag rigs when I'm standin' on the planks with my net waitin' on the school to get closer


Ugh. That tears me up too. Last October we had a big school running up on us, headed straight for the pier. The bait tanks were literally empty, and two of the baits in the water were floaters. Three of us had nets ready, with the school about 50yds out. Suddenly a guy comes running up and launches a Gotcha a good 15-20 feet in front of the fish. ZOOM. They were gone back up the beach after a single cast. That one almost led to blows. 

Evan


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## LEADDRAFT (Oct 9, 2001)

Down South here, NO "Jigging" "Plugging" "Bottom fishing" in the Pin rigs... **Beyond this point** Usually, theres a sign @ point of entrance to end of pier letting One know of this *rule*. 
You Pier Rule Milage may vary...


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## Reelturner (Dec 24, 2003)

bigbass14.3 said:


> I was on a pier in nags head thurs. and had a nice size cobia about to eat my blue when someone from the other side came running with bucktail in motion he made a throw after I said not too and hit the fish on the head this cobia was only a few inches from taking my bait off the surface his response was I forgot you had a rig there, and that locals have priorty ( and yes we almost came to blows but I am better than that) later after having several cobia check out my bait this same person put out a bottom rig with a spot head less than 1' from my rig water was so clear could see the bottom and his bait. I just think this rediclous .


Total bull locals dont have priority. He knew where your bait was. Yes, I carry a bucktail out with me 75% of the time, but do not throw anywhere close to the baits. I also live bait too and respect others that are livebaiting around the tee. And I also fish nagshead. Sam or Harry should have laid down some rules on this and it be known Andy (owner) would not put up with this coming from you nor the one throwing the bucktail as he does not tolerate any riff from the end of the pier.

Many of us may be sorry the next time we go down to king fish there expecting to put out a rig.

I agree with DD on this post. Where not in Florida where on some piers if the person whom spots the fish first has the opportunity to cast first and as soon as he does others may follow. 

RT


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## bigbass14.3 (Mar 8, 2006)

RT,

I was on outer banks pier when this happened but my next trips will probably be on nags head if yall will have me...lol

jason :fishing:


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## jobxe327 (Aug 7, 2007)

i know this is a pain when it happens and really makes you mad but it could come down to what it has at bogue inlet pier. no cobia fishing is alowwed. bottom or bucktail. because to many people complaned. only on pin rigs. i guess what im trying to say is work it out some way because it really sucks to see a nice cobe cruise the pier no were near baits and not be able to throw any thing at him. i think this pier has taken it a bit to far with this but if the guys on the end cant work on this togather and not act like kids when they see a cobe it could happen. josh


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

jobxe327 said:


> i know this is a pain when it happens and really makes you mad but it could come down to what it has at bogue inlet pier. no cobia fishing is alowwed. bottom or bucktail. because to many people complaned. only on pin rigs. i guess what im trying to say is work it out some way because it really sucks to see a nice cobe cruise the pier no were near baits and not be able to throw any thing at him. i think this pier has taken it a bit to far with this but if the guys on the end cant work on this togather and not act like kids when they see a cobe it could happen. josh


 No doubt the good guys allways suffer when the bad guys break an unwritten rule.. It shouldn't have to be a rule,just common courtesy,and common sense as well....


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## medicdav66 (Sep 27, 2007)

If he casts on me, there's gonna be a fight... plain and simple..and I will reach over and cut his line. I don't care if he's local or not, I paid to fish a marked spot out on the T and I wouldnt go outside that spot into another's so why should I allow someone to cast into mine? If and when the fish leave the area I'm casted into and as long as he's not in someone else who's paid's hole, then it's free game. Otherwise, stay out of the hole I paid for on that day


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## jobxe327 (Aug 7, 2007)

medicdav66 said:


> If he casts on me, there's gonna be a fight... plain and simple..and I will reach over and cut his line. I don't care if he's local or not, I paid to fish a marked spot out on the T and I wouldnt go outside that spot into another's so why should I allow someone to cast into mine? If and when the fish leave the area I'm casted into and as long as he's not in someone else who's paid's hole, then it's free game. Otherwise, stay out of the hole I paid for on that day


sounds good dude but them he gets to fish your spot because your hauled to jail. defenatly not the way to handle it. makes it worse actually. its just a fish and because he does somthing wrong why should you? just saying thats not the way to handle this. i am considered local at bip were i fish im there more than im anywere else but ill promise you that fighting wont help you get your fish and will only make more pier rules and in general give the guys fishing on the pier a bad name. josh


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

jobxe327 said:


> sounds good dude but them he gets to fish your spot because your hauled to jail. defenatly not the way to handle it. makes it worse actually. its just a fish and because he does somthing wrong why should you? just saying thats not the way to handle this. i am considered local at bip were i fish im there more than im anywere else but ill promise you that fighting wont help you get your fish and will only make more pier rules and in general give the guys fishing on the pier a bad name. josh


 Exactly why the pier BIP has "IMHO,stupid rules in place" that don't allow cobia fishing of any kind.. Fistfighting and linecutting ain't gonna do anything but make matters worse for the rest of the folks that fish there.. You can let him know he's treading on thin ice without cutting his line or taking his head off.. Also,I can't believe regulars on that pier would'nt step in and say something to the dimwit that casted next to your livebait to start with...


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## rsqchief5 (Jan 5, 2009)

An old friend of mine (RIP) Postal Patty used to handle situations like that so well. She was dubbed "Queen of the Holy Rail". We were in the middle of a seriously hot Spanish Blitz one day on Avalon. Shoulder to shoulder people and this Tourist walks in the middle of us and casts his 10' rod with a bottom rig right over a dozen lines. Patty walks over to him and starts talking to him like a 3 year old. Tells him "I know your too young to read what is written on the railing, but it says FOR BIG BOYS ONLY. This isnt a place for a little guy like yourself, now go find your mom and dad." This guy was every bit of 35-40. I thought we were gonna piss our pants laughing.


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## kingstrut1 (Aug 15, 2009)

Depends on the pier..At the Jolly Roger we all throw at the cobes..Especially, Depe....Who cares? Once you see someone catch a 50 pounder on light tackle, you will want to do it too...Again, depends on the pier...Most piers have such ridiculous rules you can't even fart on the end without some kind of pier master giving you hell. If the cobe will not hit the baits, he is going to go on down the beach to be caught by someone else...We do try to cast out beyond the baits or not too close...common sense...


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## wdbrand (May 24, 2007)

*Kenny,*

this ain't the ole days. The dork hole ain't around like it was 30 years ago.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

wdbrand said:


> this ain't the ole days. The dork hole ain't around like it was 30 years ago.


 WD,many of these cobes that are being sightcasted at come from the sides going around the pier.. There is plenty of time to get a shot at one without throwing your jig into the rigs... If a cobe is IN the rigs,it's just common courtesy AND common sense not to throw IN the rigs.. If he's out of em,game on....


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## bigbass14.3 (Mar 8, 2006)

Let me say this I have no problem with throwing at the cobia when they are not in the baits I think if he is in the baits you should wait too see if he is gonna take one , in my case he had boiled the bait and came back and just about had it in it's mouth when a bucktail was thrown literally hitting my clip first then hitting the cobia on the head therefore sending him away!! I too carry a bucktail rod but only throw when he is not near the end I will try along the sides just not in baits.... I think when people pay extra $$ to fish the end they should all have a shot at the fish.

Jason


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## kingstrut1 (Aug 15, 2009)

I agree DD...Cobes might take a strike and that is it...Once the rays are moving they tend to catch up...You better throw the bucktail before it is too late...around the pier or near the baits....not "ON THE BAITS." There is a difference..Heck, I've hooked more rays than the cobes so go figure...lol


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## Fishfarmer (Sep 6, 2009)

bigbass14.3 said:


> hi guys I have king fished for years ( 20+ ) and I have one thought that I have noticed lately. I just returned from a trip to the outer banks and I spent two days king fishing I have alot of friends that I fish with on various piers along the east coast but, I have noticed that around the outer banks the cobia fishing is better than to the south which brings me to this question for thought . I think throwing bucktails at cobia that are after someones king rig should not be tolerated unless it is your own bait. I have had this done on two piers in nags head one a nuber of years ago and one thurs. both times a nice cobia was about to eat my bait ( within 2 feet of it ) and some one throws there bucktail at it and spooks the fish. I thinks this should not be tolerated we all fish for the same thing and sould have a chance just like anyone else, I have no problem with it if he not in the baits but when they are leave them for everyone to have a chance.
> 
> 
> what are your opinions on this matter please?
> ...


I grew up on the west coast and had the same problems with Vietnamese and Mexicans. we would not allow them in our space and would rigg up dacron leaders with super-glue and broken glass to cast over there lines then ripped thru them and teach them to stay the heck away from our riggs. Worked very well.!!!!

Was in topsail aug 14th thru 21st and had a great time there. Will be moving from AZ next year and can wait. 

And always; let'em go to let them grow. lol unless ur hungy


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## ReelKingin (Aug 3, 2009)

That was wrong, the locals should have had a heart to heart with him. Same thing with guys and gotcha plugs...There is a respect line on the T and the bottom line do not cross it. Warned one time, after that? He would not be tolerated by the rest of the guys on the end, at least where I fish he wouldn't be


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

ReelKingin said:


> That was wrong, the locals should have had a heart to heart with him. Same thing with guys and gotcha plugs...There is a respect line on the T and the bottom line do not cross it. Warned one time, after that? He would not be tolerated by the rest of the guys on the end, at least where I fish he wouldn't be


 *Yeap,exactly...* What amazed me from the poster's story was that none of the regulars jumped in and said anything?? I know I would have said something even if it wasn't thrown on my rig,that kind of crap ain't right.. With all that said,throwing a punch,cutting the guy's line ect ain't going to help matters either... Especially when you read what Josh said has happened with rules on Boug Inlet Pier....


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## medicdav66 (Sep 27, 2007)

So where do you draw the line then? Most piers are clearly marked no bottom fishing at the T, but these guys aren't bottom fishin. They know what they're doing when they cast into the baits. If you ask me, they are going to continue this behavior until it is stopped by someone(s). I'm not gonna just swing at a guy if it just happens once, he just needs to be informed of the rules and the piermaster needs to be informed. Hopefully a heart-to-heart will straighten him out, but I've seen times when that's not gonna deter them and extra measures are needed to get the point across.

P.S.--I'm there to fish and have fun, not fight!


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## rsqchief5 (Jan 5, 2009)

That is a problem in it's self. THEY DONT ALWAYS KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING! Guy is there for a week and on the first day he sees someone throwing a big bucktail for cobia. The next morning he is stopping at the B&T shop and buys a cobia bucktail. Hooks it to what is probably an inadequet set up and casts at anything that someone else does for the rest of the week. the only thing worse than a big fish running around the pier is a big fish running around the pier with someone who has no idea what to do with it.

I understand that everyone has to start somewhere and there will always be a FIRST big fish, but they need to have done their homework before thay take that test. If you havent done your homework (ie selecting the right gear, learning that particular piers ettiquette, asking questions, and watching others do it correctly) then you have no business "taking that test".

I watched and learned for years before I fished a pin rig. Same for fishing the point. I fished near these guys and watched what they did. From rigging, to bait, to casting, to fighting the fish, to landing. I also watched when something was done wrong and knew enough to recognize it as such.

Now if we could just make everyone that might fish near the end of a pier or at the point read this prior to fishing, we would be set.


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## New Kent Newbie (Apr 25, 2006)

rsqchief5 said:


> That is a problem in it's self. THEY DONT ALWAYS KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING! Guy is there for a week and on the first day he sees someone throwing a big bucktail for cobia. The next morning he is stopping at the B&T shop and buys a cobia bucktail. Hooks it to what is probably an inadequet set up and casts at anything that someone else does for the rest of the week. the only thing worse than a big fish running around the pier is a big fish running around the pier with someone who has no idea what to do with it.
> 
> I understand that everyone has to start somewhere and there will always be a FIRST big fish, but they need to have done their homework before thay take that test. If you havent done your homework (ie selecting the right gear, learning that particular piers ettiquette, asking questions, and watching others do it correctly) then you have no business "taking that test".
> 
> ...


AMEN to that alot of people have forgotten about paying dues i learned from one of the frisco legends Hickey Jackson RIP when i was 14 he helped me catch my first and only tarpon off that pier


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## bigbass14.3 (Mar 8, 2006)

you are right DD none of the regulars said anything ... probably cause it was a regular that did it, I spent years fishing with my father ( and still do), and I was taught to watch what they do and learn and now over the years I have learned the right way and the plain stupid way , and unfortunatly it looks like the stupid way is getting more popular ( I think this is why they don't land as many fish anymore) we used to fish a pier just south of willmington and it was nothing to land 20+ kings a day and 300+ a year ... and before anyone says how long ago was that it was in the 90's , and everyone worked together and had a great time. Boy I miss those days!!!


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

bigbass14.3 said:


> you are right DD none of the regulars said anything ... probably cause it was a regular that did it, I spent years fishing with my father ( and still do), and I was taught to watch what they do and learn and now over the years I have learned the right way and the plain stupid way , and unfortunatly it looks like the stupid way is getting more popular ( I think this is why they don't land as many fish anymore) we used to fish a pier just south of willmington and it was nothing to land 20+ kings a day and 300+ a year ... and before anyone says how long ago was that it was in the 90's , and everyone worked together and had a great time. Boy I miss those days!!!


 *Hopefully* you are wrong there,because if that is the case,*all piers* are heading towards rules that are similar to the rules Boug Inlet Pier is suffering through nowadays.... 

It'll be a sad day on the planks if you can't fish for a cobe or many other fish for that matter,just because folks can't learn "planker manners" or obvious common sense.. 

Imho,what rsqchief's said is a statement in itself... You go out and pay your dues,learn "pier manners",follow the unwritten rules,by watching and learning from folks that HAVE been there done that.. Don't learn rules from the internet,hands on is always the best way to learn.. Did that in the 70's,can't say I'm an expert,but know "planker manners" and definatly know enough not to throw a bucktail into someone's rig...


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## Reelturner (Dec 24, 2003)

This is a good thing for a sticky.....DD.

Reelturner


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## French (Jun 18, 2005)

Josh,

To be fair, the reason bottom fishing was taken away was because people were abusing the 4 rod rule, and they were hooking up with piles of blacktip sharks that were forcing pin riggers to pull up baits every 15 minutes. As for bucktails, there would not have been a problem except ONE PERSON (Roger the Dodger... who has been around long enough to know better) threw a bucktail into the rigs instead of staying away. What was jive is that people lumped Jesse into that Roger's mix and it was an unfair accusation. His fish that year was to the left of my rig, which was in the left corner, and hit put the jig right on its head. The fish was not in my space, and I congratulated him for it (big fish on a jog and 14lb test), but some of the regulars wet their Depends over the catch. To me, a jigger has the space to the left and the right of the rigs, all the way back to the beach. If they hook one there, even if the fish is moving towards the live baits, kudos to them. If they throw within the area where you have to pay extra to fish a live bait, then the pier staff failed if they did not make the violator leave. I would have spoken with management, and informed them that my business would be travelling elsewhere.


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## Pier Dweller (Jun 19, 2008)

LEADDRAFT said:


> Down South here, NO "Jigging" "Plugging" "Bottom fishing" in the Pin rigs... **Beyond this point** Usually, theres a sign @ point of entrance to end of pier letting One know of this *rule*.
> You Pier Rule Milage may vary...


I agree, at Surf City Pier, on Topsail Island, NC, we have an Eye Bolt on both sides, with a rope stretched across the last 20 ft of pier, and 2 signs stating "No Plugging/Bottom Fishing, or Spectators Past This Point.


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## bigbass14.3 (Mar 8, 2006)

I been wanting to try that pier for sometime.

Jason


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## Jesse Lockowitz (Feb 13, 2006)

jobxe327 said:


> i know this is a pain when it happens and really makes you mad but it could come down to what it has at bogue inlet pier. no cobia fishing is alowwed. bottom or bucktail. because to many people complaned. only on pin rigs. i guess what im trying to say is work it out some way because it really sucks to see a nice cobe cruise the pier no were near baits and not be able to throw any thing at him. i think this pier has taken it a bit to far with this but if the guys on the end cant work on this togather and not act like kids when they see a cobe it could happen. josh


remember what roger said


"I CANT CONTROL MYSELF! I HAVE TO THROW!"


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## jobxe327 (Aug 7, 2007)

exactly go rodger but hes gone now. and french i didnt just see blacktips hooked up on the bottom there were alot of coes since i was there most everyday i saw it. and who cares is you have to pull in your king bat if you hook a fish 50 yards up the pier. if they run that way they do o big deal if a king rig goes up the pier the bottom folks pull there stuff. in fishing is fishing i say as long as you dont fish on someones elses rig and give some room you should be able to fish any damn way you want. fishing is fishing plane and simple.


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