# Does anyone cast 1 oz lures (or less) with conventional reels?



## Manlystanley

My current setup is:

-- 525 Penn Mag Reel.
-- Ocean Master Rod (10 foot); 1- 4 Oz.

All the articles I've read has been from the perspective of using 3+ Ounces sinkers. But, does anyone use their conventional reels to cast 1 OZ (or less) lures? I tried doing it and got several birds nests. What types of tricks do you guys use??

Best Regards,
Stan


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## bigjim5589

Stan, I like to use some spoons & jigs in 1 oz sometimes, but don't use such a heavy outfit for casting. I'm not casting in the surf either. I use a BPS Extreme rod & either an ABU 5600 or 6600 size reel. I have a couple of the BPS Extremes in different sizes I use, but like a 7'6" length in med heavy the most. The surf rods I have are all spinning.


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## Manlystanley

Jim: Thanks for the help!

What do you guys think of this technique: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAeyRQOE9so


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## bigjim5589

Cool video! Can't say that I'm much of a surf caster. Don't get to do it much. I'm happy with 150 ft casts, that guy is talking *150 yards*!


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## jcallaham

Stanley you can cast those with you're rig, just develop a real smooth, kind of, easy cast and ignore the voice in you're head that says you need to get further out there. That being said a lighter rod and reel would make it easier, say an abu 5500 or a low profile bait caster and and rod suited more for light weights


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## OceanMaster

Sure do but I use 7ft - 8ft rods (trout\redfish and or heavy bass) rigged with Shimano Curado's and or ABU Record 50s. There's a point where feel comes into play and fishing 1 ounce lures, which sounds big for lake or stream sized lures, is very small for surf. Add the coastal wind factor, typically blowing onshore a large percentage of the time, sizing down the reel and rod to match the weight delivers the best casting performance.


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## Manlystanley

A second rig I've got is a:

Reel: DAI-0017 Daiwa BG30 Black spinning Gold Reel.

Rod: SHA-0008 Shakespeare Ugly Stik Big Water: (Medium action; 3/4 - 3 Oz; 8 Foot).

Is this setup better for 1 Oz lures?

Can you also, tell me what a good surf rig is for 3/8 - 2 Oz Lures? How much money are we looking at??

Thanks!


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## Manlystanley

Jim, OM and JC: I did some testing, and my 9' Ugly Stick and BG25, I can toss that about 50 yards (150 feet) with 1 OZ. Will a rod and reel that is optomized for a lower lure size allow me to cast further? The 9' Ugly stick israted for 3/4 - 3 OZs). How far do you think is possible with these light weights?

Can you do things like a pedulum cast with them?


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## solid7

I use a 9' Tica (UEHA527401S) with a highly modified Abu 6500 CS Rocket reel for jigging in the surf. And yes, I throw 1 oz. or less. (Mostly bucktails, and as of late, Road Runners with half a plastic worm) I'll use that rod for blues, smacks, snook, flounder, pompano, and anything else that will have it. I can get just about an even 100 yards out of it, on favorable conditions. I don't try pendulum casts, as the handle is too short for a power cast. But the action of the rod, and the looseness of the reel make it a piece of cake to cast. (I usually use something like a half-ass OTG or sometimes a Brighton cast)

That is a brilliant combo...


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## bigjim5589

> Will a rod and reel that is optomized for a lower lure size allow me to cast further?


Stan, the answer is yes, but it would also depend on other conditions. Wind of course would have some effect, line size & shape of the lure. A 1 oz pencil sinker will cast a bit differently than a wide, 1 oz spoon. Plus, rod length plays a role, longer rods will usually allow more distance provided it's the right type of rod for the weight. It's simply the physics of the cast. I'm no expert when it comes to distance casting, as I rarely make long casts. Since the majority of the fishing I do is in rivers & creeks, accuracy is more important to me than distance. That Ugly Stick, I believe is a composite of fiberglass & graphite, and fiberglass is a bit stiffer than graphite, so you might get better distance with an all graphite rod, or you may not. For that rod & that weight, 50 yards may be all you can do. What size & type of line are you using?


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## Manlystanley

Hello Jim,
THanks for your help! I've got 50# Powerpro braid on it.

Best Regards,
Stan


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## bigjim5589

Well, I was thinking perhaps you could go lower diameter wise, which might help, but I think 50# has about the same diameter as 14lb mono. You might get a bit more distance if you were using something like 30lb PP. If you could get some 30# PP cheap, it would be worth trying, but I doubt the extra expense if you're paying full price would be worth a little extra distance.

Stan, if I was you, unless the lure weight is critical for the place you're fishing, if you really need the extra distance, I would just go a bit higher in weight with the lures. Lures are certainly cheaper to buy than rods, reels & braid!


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## solid7

bigjim5589 said:


> Well, I was thinking perhaps you could go lower diameter wise, which might help, but I think 50# has about the same diameter as 14lb mono. You might get a bit more distance if you were using something like 30lb PP. If you could get some 30# PP cheap, it would be worth trying, but I doubt the extra expense if you're paying full price would be worth a little extra distance.


No, this isn't true. It is a common error to believe that the diameter produces better results on the casting field. It is not the case, at least not until you start seeing significant differences in line weight, or other factors become affected. (such as wind resistance, guide friction, etc)

Casting distance is affected more by spool mass than line diameter. There just isn't enough difference in total spooled mass between the 2 diameters of braid you listed, to make any noticeable difference. You have to overcome spool mass to get the cast started, and the mass factors into the angular velocity. (and how the angular momentum is conserved)

Even between 17lb mono, and 35 lb braid - which has an equivalent line diameter of 8lb test - I see VERY little difference, on reels with basically identical characteristics, in my overall casting distance. Not enough that I can say authoritatively that I would choose braid for a casting advantage. In reality, with the amount of braid that you can stuff on a spool, you are almost back to the weight of mono, just by virtue of density... (braid "packs" tighter on the reel, with smaller spaces between "diameters")


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## bigjim5589

Solid7, I understand what your saying, and for conventional reels agree. What does spool mass have to do with casting a spinning outfit? I know this thread started with conventional reels in the topic, but isn't a BG25 a spinning reel?


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## solid7

bigjim5589 said:


> Solid7, I understand what your saying, and for conventional reels agree. What does spool mass have to do with casting a spinning outfit? I know this thread started with conventional reels in the topic, but isn't a BG25 a spinning reel?


I dunno, but I admit, I didn't see the second rig come into the conversation until just now. 

If it's a spinning reel, then my previous post doesn't apply. (different concept, different rules)


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## Manlystanley

I was talking about my Penn 525 Mag. So, I take it that the sppol tightening on the 525 Mag should not have much of an effect??

Thanks,
Stan


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## solid7

Manlystanley said:


> I was talking about my Penn 525 Mag. So, I take it that the sppol tightening on the 525 Mag should not have much of an effect??


OK, now I'm really confused. Where did the spool tightening come into the question?

As I stated in another thread, you don't tighten spool tension on mag reels - you set it, and forget it. That is ONLY for elimnating side play in the spool. If you want to use mechanical tension, go to a purely conventional reel. (no mag) The magnet is all you need to get the spool under control, for any size terminal tackle...


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## bigjim5589

:fishing:, I think I see what Stan is trying to say, except the part about spool tightening!  I believe he's comparing his spinning rig with a 1 oz weight, to an as yet determined conventional rig. He can cast the spinning rig 50 yards, and wants a conventional rod that he can pair with the 525 Mag to better cast the lighter weights. Am I in the ballpark Stan?

Spool tension on a conventional does have some effect on casting if it's too loose or too tight. But as solid7 said, it should be set to eliminate side play of the spool, and nothing more. It's not a spool brake! The magnets are the brake, and your thumb!


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## Manlystanley

solid7 said:


> OK, now I'm really confused. Where did the spool tightening come into the question?
> 
> As I stated in another thread, you don't tighten spool tension on mag reels - you set it, and forget it. That is ONLY for elimnating side play in the spool. If you want to use mechanical tension, go to a purely conventional reel. (no mag) The magnet is all you need to get the spool under control, for any size terminal tackle...


Solid: Gotcha, thanks for telling me that again. I missunderstood that point. One question, If it's not supposed to be adjusted, then why do they give an adjustment?


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## Manlystanley

bigjim5589 said:


> :fishing:, I think I see what Stan is trying to say, except the part about spool tightening!  I believe he's comparing his spinning rig with a 1 oz weight, to an as yet determined conventional rig. He can cast the spinning rig 50 yards, and wants a conventional rod that he can pair with the 525 Mag to better cast the lighter weights. Am I in the ballpark Stan?
> 
> Spool tension on a conventional does have some effect on casting if it's too loose or too tight. But as solid7 said, it should be set to eliminate side play of the spool, and nothing more. It's not a spool brake! The magnets are the brake, and your thumb!


Jim: Sorry for confusing everyone. I got it now. Thanks for your patiance.

Best Regards,
Stan


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## solid7

Manlystanley said:


> Solid: Gotcha, thanks for telling me that again. I missunderstood that point. One question, If it's not supposed to be adjusted, then why do they give an adjustment?


It's not your "go to" knob for correcting backlash issues. This is where you are confusing a mag reel with a conventional reel.

It's not that it isn't meant to be adjusted. It's that it's not meant to be CONSTANTLY adjusted, or for making "micro" adjustments. It's only to center the spool and take out excessive side play. The other option would be for the manufacturer to build the reel to critical tolerances, building in tons of cost, and eliminating much of the parts interchangeability, simply for the sake of having a reel that falls perfectly together, and ready to go. It's a very small concession, but at the same time, seems to be one of the most misunderstood features...

Stanley, you have to re-adjust it every time you take the reel apart, but not every time you change terminal tackle. That is what you do on a purely conventional reel. You have to separate yourself from that way of thinking with a mag reel...


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## Manlystanley

solid7 said:


> It's not your "go to" knob for correcting backlash issues. This is where you are confusing a mag reel with a conventional reel.
> 
> It's not that it isn't meant to be adjusted. It's that it's not meant to be CONSTANTLY adjusted, or for making "micro" adjustments. It's only to center the spool and take out excessive side play. The other option would be for the manufacturer to build the reel to critical tolerances, building in tons of cost, and eliminating much of the parts interchangeability, simply for the sake of having a reel that falls perfectly together, and ready to go. It's a very small concession, but at the same time, seems to be one of the most misunderstood features...
> 
> Stanley, you have to re-adjust it every time you take the reel apart, but not every time you change terminal tackle. That is what you do on a purely conventional reel. You have to separate yourself from that way of thinking with a mag reel...



Solid: Got it!! Thanks!!


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