# Why such heavy leaders for drum?



## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2006)

On fishfinder rigs, many formulas call for 80-100# mono on the leader. Do big drum chew on the leader? Why so heavy? Asking because I have difficulty with knots in mono that big and don't crimp.

Is 30-50# OK?


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

100-130# leader makes a handy handle....


----------



## IPNURWATER (Aug 20, 2013)

10lb test for every once your throwing so if your surf casting your might need to go to 80lb test plus vs a pier you might not. But I know alot that will use 60 lb as their max leader.plus if you hang up on sharks/rays you have a fighting chance without losing your rigs .. drum love to run into rocks or structure to break lines so helps with that too. Fur the puppy drum I use 20_30 lb .


----------



## SeaPA (Oct 12, 2013)

They have sharp gill plates too. I fished 60lb mono leader on fishfinder rigs this weekend and did break one off in the surf. I was horsing him in pretty hard though and didn't loosen my drag enough.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2006)

To be clear, I'm asking about the hook leader, not the shock leader.


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

I'm not fishing Outer Banks drum... But even down here, we get some decent size drum, and I damn near flayed my thumb open when I released my last drum. Sliced me like a razor blade... I use heavy terminal leaders for 2 of the aforementioned reasons: 1) because they have sharp gill plates, and 2) because they will head for the bottom, and get you all wrapped up in rocks and whatnot. Especially the slot size. The smaller fish can get right down to the bottom, but yet they still have enough fight in them to hang you up and break you off.

I fought what I thought was a ray for about 5 minutes, a few weeks back. Thought he sucked down, cause when I backed off for a minute or so, he took off again. Turns out, it was a 38 inch drum, and he had parked the bus right along and/or under the backside of a rock ledge. If I hadn't had an 80lb bite leader, (on account of all the bluefish) I would have lost him for sure...


----------



## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> To be clear, I'm asking about the hook leader, not the shock leader.



Potential Scenario

I just lost lost the NEW ALL Time World Record RED DRUM in the wash at my feet cause I was too lazy to buy a crimper or learn to tie a knot in 100 pound test leader material, just as I was sliding him up on the beach the big sucker popped the fifty pound test leader I was using like it was made of sewing thread


----------



## OldBay (May 15, 2003)

I use 80# or 100# as the hook leader because it is stiffer than 40 or 50. The stiffness makes it less likely for the hook to foul on the swivel/sinker during the cast or in the wash. That's my theory anyway.


----------



## Kellercl (Jan 28, 2010)

I use a 30 lb seagar fluorocarbon leader tied to my line, no issues here. IMHO, no offense meant towards others, people go way overboard with line strength. A 30 lb drum isn't a 6 ft shark.


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Kellercl said:


> I use a 30 lb seagar fluorocarbon leader tied to my line, no issues here. IMHO, no offense meant towards others, people go way overboard with line strength. A 30 lb drum isn't a 6 ft shark.


Nope sure ain't. But who wants to risk loosing a 50" Drum in the wash because of a worn 30# bite leader. We don't care if a biter gets broke off...


----------



## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Kellercl said:


> I use a 30 lb seagar fluorocarbon leader tied to my line, no issues here. IMHO, no offense meant towards others, people go way overboard with line strength. A 30 lb drum isn't a 6 ft shark.




When I am Drum Fishing I am fishing for a 100 pound Drum, not a thirty pound yearling so if you feel comfortable with 30 pound Seagar that tells me that you have never had a Drum over fifty inches bowed up to your line

The 100 Pound Drum I fish for will drown your example of 6 foot Shark, I may never get to catch him but he is the one I fish for every time I chuck a bait out off the OBX

If you think a large Drum can not break light leaders next time you get a forty pounder on the beach stick your hand down its throat past the crushers and report back after the Doctors have repaired the damage


----------



## Kellercl (Jan 28, 2010)

Garboman said:


> When I am Drum Fishing I am fishing for a 100 pound Drum, not a thirty pound yearling so if you feel comfortable with 30 pound Seagar that tells me that you have never had a Drum over fifty inches bowed up to your line
> 
> The 100 Pound Drum I fish for will drown your example of 6 foot Shark
> 
> If you think a large Drum can not break light leaders next time you get a forty pounder on the beach stick your hand down its throat past the crushers and report back after the Doctors have repaired the damage


I have gotten a 46 inch drum in no problem, not sure on the weight. My weakest link is my max drag. Like I said earlier, just my opinion/experience. The problem with overly heavy gear, IMHO, it makes 95% of the catches boring. I aim for the middle ground. 

Edit:

But to your point the OP needs to decide what his target size is. I have one setup for large fish. 1000 yards of 85 lb test with 9 ft 600 lb steel leader. I just don't use it regularly. It is very specific.


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

17# main line, 50# shock leader and a 100# bite leader ain't no walk in the park on big Drum......


----------



## George Gravier (Oct 28, 1999)

I snell all my heaver hooks with 150# mono, my snells are only about 1.5 in long, do I need to go that thick, no, just what I have always used, sometimes it will prevent a bite off from a shark or decent size bluefish sometimes not, and yes a drums gill rakers are stupid sharp been there done that......geo


----------



## Plug (Feb 5, 2004)

If you have a problem with terminal knots in 100 + # test try a simple, old 3 turn clinch knot (not an improved clinch). Tightens easily and one of the strongest in heavy test line.


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

If you want to cross into ridiculous, I sometimes make my bite leaders out of .095" Weed Wacker line. (the "Titanium" stuff) You don't snell it, it costs you 2 crimps every time. 

Problem with our "drum" fishing, is that it overlaps with "toothy" season, and there's usually more sharks to be caught than drum. Seeing as how drum are stupid enough to bite a bait tossed out on a log chain, We just figure it's money well spend to "tackle up" to the task. Nothing wrong with putting a shark on the beach once in a while, and weed wacker line is a whole lot cheaper than Seaquar.

You can land 3 or 4 sharks before even thinking about replacing those bite leaders.


----------



## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Plug said:


> If you have a problem with terminal knots in 100 + # test try a simple, old 3 turn clinch knot (not an improved clinch). Tightens easily and one of the strongest in heavy test line.



For those of us with normal human being ie. non "Plug" sized hands a real option for successfully tying knots in heavy 100 pound and up leader is to use pliers to cinch down on the knot you snell the hook and grab the swivel with the pliers as well as the tag end on the knot before you clip it. You hold the hook with your other hand with a finger wrapped around the bend in the hook keeping clear of the point and barb when cinching it down.

Or you can just use 30 pound test Seagar and target Yearlings and Pupsopcorn:

My puppy Drum rigs are made on 60 pound test so you can chuck them out with a heaver and have no fears about breaking off on the cast


I am liking the Weed Wacker bite leader especially in Chartruse or Bright neon Orange especially if it glows in the dark

The Red Headed fella put a glow stick on a Drum bait one time as an experiment during Drum season..............after he was finally able to break off the Mother of all Hammerheads he swore to never...ever..... chuck out a glow stick off Rodanthe in Drum season again.................


----------



## flathead (Dec 18, 2003)

> 17# main line, 50# shock leader and a 100# bite leader ain't no walk in the park on big Drum...... If you have a problem with terminal knots in 100 + # test try a simple, old 3 turn clinch knot


90% of mine are 20#, 50# shock,and either 80 # or 100#,depending on which I happen to have, along with which size beads I have. The 3 turn clinch is definitely strong enough and easier to keep the leader short. If I happen to be throwing my 7000s with level winds, I'll use the 17#, 40# shock, then 80-100# bite.

My pup rigs are 40# Seaguar fluoro, tied really,really close River Rig style.


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Russell went to a glow stick????   He looks to be catch'n just fine with seamullet and black drum heads this year... 

We may go to far with the 80-100lb leader,although a drum does have a mouth that can chafe a leader,and imho 30lb test won't last a farting spell with a nice drum on there in most cases.... jmho...


----------



## cooper138 (Aug 8, 2012)

As mentioned above. For the handle, the confidence, and getting my fish and rig back. the things aren't exactly line shy so why not be confident knowing it's not going to bust off on ya. Three turn uni, pliers and a nail on a work bench to hold the hook while you cinch it down. Oh plenty of spit.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2006)

cooper138 said:


> As mentioned above. For the handle, the confidence, and getting my fish and rig back. the things aren't exactly line shy so why not be confident knowing it's not going to bust off on ya. Three turn uni, pliers and a nail on a work bench to hold the hook while you cinch it down. Oh plenty of spit.


Thanks,


Can you guys give me any tips or point me to any good classic threads that cover heavy mono bite leaders for big drum?


----------



## cooper138 (Aug 8, 2012)

Decent thread in the bible section but most the pics are gone. Do a search on cannonball rig, drum rig or fish finder lotta info on this site.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2006)

can drum taste heavy wire? can I just haywire up a nice short leader?


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

This is what I use. Mind you, I'm in Florida. I don't use the same setup, because our conditions are different, and I don't target the big reds. I do occasionally catch them, however.

Setup #1 - the lightweight.

80# Seaguar Fluorocarbon leader, 8" long between crimp and snell. #1 Owner Light Mutu circle hook. This is a live finger mullet rig. Use with 1-2 oz. egg sinker. (good for up to 5' swell) Most commonly, I use this when I know that slot reds and bluefish are in the area.









Setup #2 - the Bruiser

.095" Weed Trimmer line, 5" between crimps. 4/0 Mustad Demon Perfect Circle 3X strong. This is the rig that I use for whole whiting, spot, large pinfish, or large mullet heads, all lip hooked. Can be used with any size weight that is equal or greater than the weight of the bait. (I usually use a 4 oz egg or pyramid) This thing will pull in some nasty critters. I keep these short, to limit the size of the toothy critters, but you can make them longer with great success.


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Can you guys give me any tips or point me to any good classic threads that cover heavy mono bite leaders for big drum?


Tying short bit leaders with 100#+ just takes practice. I can tie shorter but these are quick and easy. Learning the knots is the easy part. Learning to tie short is the tough part. Trial and error is the key. Buy some cheap mono and practice. Notice all tag ends are pointing down? I feel not having them poke the fish mouth is an advantage.


----------



## jmadre (Jan 3, 2008)

AbuMike said:


> Learning the knots is the easy part. Learning to tie short is the tough part.


I'll second that. Like Flathead, I find I can tie a shorter snell with a clinch that with a Uni. I need 'em as short as possible to make up for my deficiencies in casting technique.

BTW, 17# mainline, 50# shock, 80# snell on an 8/0 hook. I use 80# because you never know what's going to bite your bait at Hatteras.

I'm fishing for a Drum, not a Redfish.


----------



## J Johnston (Nov 24, 2003)

I don't think I would use under 50# on a full grown drum. When fishing Hatteras conditions you need a 50# shock leader anyway. I think the 80#-100# are used for stiffness , also to fend off bluefish and other critters chewing on your bait. Tieing these rigs is not that hard, Mike gives you an example of the time tested Drum rig.
I like to be able to pull on these fish with out worrying about breaking something.Fish pull the same on 50# as they do on 10#.Actually they probably pull harder on 50# as sometimes fish pull harder, the harder you pull on them.

Like Garbo when I'm fishing for Drum I'm fishing for a 40"+.

17# mainline,50# shock leader,100# bite leader 1/2" - 1" long 10/0 J hook snelled ,tied to swivel with a 3 turn clinch. 

I have to hook the hook on something to pull that 3 turn clinch tight. Lots of spit and pull till you flex the hook a little.It ain't gonna come untied! You have to make sure knots are pulled tight, that is a mistake I see a lot.


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

J Johnston said:


> You have to make sure knots are pulled tight, that is a mistake I see a lot.


You'll never find that out faster than when you get hung up on something and try to shake it loose. They'll pull straight all day long, but stiff leader material will come uncoiled when rapidly flexed and contracted, if not cinched down with superhuman strength.

I like a crimp on the swivel end, for that reason, but to each his own. It all works.


----------



## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

So what's a good rig for these bull red things I've been hearing about?


----------



## gilly21 (Feb 15, 2006)

NC KingFisher said:


> So what's a good rig for these bull red things I've been hearing about?


River Rig! lol

I fish a 10/0 L2004E straight shank circle hook snelled to 125lb mono leader 20-36", #6 bead between weight slide and hook eye, terminal swivel is crimped. It's big, ugly, and simple. Like me and most of my drum fishing friends. 

Why, Because when you are catching 10 big drum an hour you dont want to have to retie after each one due to a freyed leader. Drum have teeth, sand will get in the bead and rough up the line, broken shells on the bar rough up your line, etc. Do what ever you feel will work. I dont like to loose fish and will go as heavy as I can without costing me bites.


----------



## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

I think I'm about to go snell up some weedeater line cannon ball rigs to test


----------



## Plug (Feb 5, 2004)

Garboman said:


> For those of us with normal human being ie. non "Plug" sized hands a real option for successfully tying knots in heavy 100 pound and up leader is to use pliers to cinch down on the knot you snell the hook and grab the swivel with the pliers as well as the tag end on the knot before you clip it. You hold the hook with your other hand with a finger wrapped around the bend in the hook keeping clear of the point and barb when cinching it down.


Whachu talkin' about man I only wear a size 17 wedding ring.


----------



## George Gravier (Oct 28, 1999)

Man Gilly I want to fish where you do!!!


----------

