# Daiwa 600h vs. Penn 113 wide/114 wide, Daiwa 900h vs. Penn 9/0?



## whate

I'm thinking about getting the Daiwa 600H to do some sharking. I heard ppl recommending penn 113/114 wide, and then the Penn 9/0 and daiwa 900h for bigger sharks.

I've never landed a shark and new to conventional reels (i'm still learning how to cast my jigmaster).

I want to be able to cast the bait from shore or pier. And i dont want to lose a big shark if i ever hook one (nothing more than 8'', and if i get one that's bigger than 8'', i'll cut the line 

I have a fenwick rod given to me from a relative (80-130lb stand up rod) and thinking of what reel to match that rod. However, i'm open for rod recommendation if my rod is over killed.

I know the 114 wide has more line capacity than the daiwa 600h, and from my readings (not my experience nor opinion) - the daiwa 600h is better built than 114wide and so does then daiwa 900h vs the penn 9/0.

Please give me some insight as of what works best for me now and in the long run (maybe 60 years from now ??), only if you have experience using one of them. I dont want a vote.


Thanks,

JT.


----------



## Finger_Mullet

*Super Bill*

This is a good question for BStarling. I am sure he will give you some input when he sees the thread.

Darin


----------



## sprtsracer

I have never used the Daiwas, but I'm sure they are good reels. The only thing I can tell you is that the Penns have not changed over the years, the parts are plentiful, many are interchangeable, and they are PROVEN, and...more importantly...the parts are CHEAP!!! You can fix anything that goes wrong with them yourself. VERY EASY!!! With the 6/0 and/or 9/0, you shouldn't have trouble with the "over 8' " sharks either...and the 113 can probably handle most of them, so don't worry about that...worry more about your line and rod. With an 80-130 rod, that should work. IF AND ONLY IF, you master the casting part, and you are confident in your ability, go with 80 or 100 lb braid. I know plenty of guys who toss them off the end of Sunglow pier effortlously with braid...but get the Jigmaster "mastered" first. After that, you should have no problem.


----------



## whate

Sportracer, Thanks for your input. Is the 113 too small for the 80-130 rod?


----------



## treydunn48

if you dont believe the penn is just as good built just buy accuframes and parts but if you dont got that kind of cash right now tiburon frame etc


----------



## whate

The only Penn is have is the jigmaster, and i dont have reels from different brand to compare; and even if i do, i wont be able to tell which is more durable. From reading i see many ppl swears by Penn, at the same time there are ppl who swears by Daiwa too (and shimano, accurate, avet, etc..). I know i'm in the right place to ask question, and hope to gain some insights from other's experience so i could make the right decision.

JT.


----------



## sprtsracer

whate said:


> Sportracer, Thanks for your input. Is the 113 too small for the 80-130 rod?


No...not if you use braid.



whate said:


> The only Penn is have is the jigmaster, and i dont have reels from different brand to compare; and even if i do, i wont be able to tell which is more durable. From reading i see many ppl swears by Penn, at the same time there are ppl who swears by Daiwa too (and shimano, accurate, avet, etc..). I know i'm in the right place to ask question, and hope to gain some insights from other's experience so i could make the right decision.
> 
> JT.


The older style Penn conventionals are tough to beat when it comes to durability. You can pass them down to your great-grandchildren! That applies to the Senators, the Jigmaster, the Squidder, Surfmaster, and most other Penn conventionals. The newer levelwinds, etc., are now made in China. The Senators are, unless they changed in the last couple of months, one of the few still made in the USA, as well as the Internationals and the Torques. You can't go wrong with them.


----------



## whate

The penn seems durable. My jigmaster, bought from ebay, is aleast 20-30 years old and still looks shiny


----------



## yogai

I own all the reels you're considering except for the 600H, and I've used a 600H quite a bit. You're not going to be able to cast a Daiwa 900h. That size reel needs to be yakked for sharks. There's no point in having a 900H and dunking a bait close to a pier. Probably no huge sharks will be that close.

A 600H or even a 6/0, can be casted fairly well with a little elevation and a long, strong thumb. I've tossed whole 15" spanish macks with 8 oz pyramid sinkers on long, stiff bridge rods a little under the 100 yard range; more than enough for the good piers that are situated near drop-offs.

HOWEVER, since you stated yourself that you're new to conventionals, I wouldn't buy a 6/0 size reel yet, and certainly not a 9/0 (these are the type of reels that you use when you have a group of guys who can yak out baits and are willing to spend an entire weekend fishing). Get a Penn 4/0 wide and learn to cast that. The problem with this thought is that no big manufacturers make rods that are really suitable for this type of reel (and I think anybody who says a BassPro OM heavy heaver is a good match doesn't know much). You can get custom sticks made for $150 to $250 that are a good match, and by that I mean an 8 to 10 foot 50-80 lb blank with a long butt, foulproof guides and an aluminum seat. These heavy bridge sticks are a breed of rods that aren't seen very often except in Florida and around the Gulf. If that Fenwick of yours is a true stand-up rod (5'6" or 6' and/or has roller guides), you're not going to get nearly as much distance as you would like, and you might as well not bother from the beach if you aren't yakking b/c few big sharks are going to come 20 yds from the beach.


----------



## bstarling

Are you going to cast this thing? A 130 rod is a beast if it is long, and you can't cast it if it is short. I use a 113HLW on a 12 Ocean Master Heavy and it cast reasonably well. The 6/0 and 9/0 reels really cannot be cast by normal people. A very few can make some headway with a 6/0, but I don't know of anyone that can throw a 9/0 any further than I can spit. Unless you are looking at some really large sharks from the beach, both the 6 and 9/0 are overkill. If you hook up with one of those California whites none of the reels you are thinking about are going a do squat. Those Leopard sharks over there are easy prey for a Jigmaster or even a Squidder. Both of those will outcast anything else I have mentioned. 

Bill:fishing:


----------



## whate

Thanks Yogai. Since you've used the 600h quit a bit can you give me some thought about your experience with it vs. the penn 6/0?

JT.


----------



## Carolina Rebel

The merit of the Daiwas is that they are all aluminum--not only the solidly built one piece frame, but also the sideplates. I've cracked the bakelite sideplate on a Penn(a model 9M) by dropping it. I've also had the little part of the sideplate that retains the eccentric break on two Penn reels, a 155 and again a 9M. Effectively the reels are useless once this breaks, and given what I paid for them in the first place they were totalled. 
While the Jigmaster has the one piece frame, the Senators and alot of other Penn reels use crossbars for support. These are alright if you take rigorous care of them, but if a screw gets stuck in one side, they can be a headache to take loose. In my experience, Penns are more prone to frame flex (one loose screw can lead to it) because they don't have a solid frame--just a series of crossbars with screws on either end. Having owned quite a few of them, I am not a huge fan of the Penn bakelite sideplate reel, nor any graphite-sideplated reel for that matter. IMO the Daiwas are easier to work on--the anti-reverse dog is a breeze to deal with compared to the Penn's, and there aren't nearly as many screws to deal with. Take a Penn apart and you have 4+ crossbars, 2 screws per crossbar, 4 screws for the sideplate, 4 screws for each side of the reel foot, 2 bakelite sideplates, and then the internal components. Take a Daiwa Sealine apart and you have a solid aluminum sideplate with the reel foot built in, 2 aluminum sideplates, 4 sideplate screws, 4-6 screws per side that hold the sideplates to the frame, and the components. Its a world of difference when it comes down to it. The Daiwa has one little weakness, the stock drags are poor--an easy fix with a $4 set of Smooooth Drags, or better yet some Carbontex washers--and one Achilles heel: The brass pinion gear. Penns have a rock-solid stainless pinion gear, while the Daiwas, all of the Daiwas, have a failure-prone brass one, and replacements are hard to find for some of the older or more rare models. For the newer 400Hs, 600Hs, and the 30Hs and 50Hs this isn't a problem, but for others parts availability can be an issue. With the Penns this is never an issue. That said, the choice is yours. Either reel would probably serve you fine and last for years with proper care, but you would have to pay alot money for a one piece frame for the Penn. The Daiwa comes with it for free, and to me aluminum sideplates are priceless.


----------



## whate

bstarling said:


> Are you going to cast this thing? A 130 rod is a beast if it is long, and you can't cast it if it is short. I use a 113HLW on a 12 Ocean Master Heavy and it cast reasonably well. The 6/0 and 9/0 reels really cannot be cast by normal people. A very few can make some headway with a 6/0, but I don't know of anyone that can throw a 9/0 any further than I can spit. Unless you are looking at some really large sharks from the beach, both the 6 and 9/0 are overkill. If you hook up with one of those California whites none of the reels you are thinking about are going a do squat. Those Leopard sharks over there are easy prey for a Jigmaster or even a Squidder. Both of those will outcast anything else I have mentioned.
> 
> Bill:fishing:


Hi bstarling, Super Bill mentioned your name earlier that you could be helpful. Inputs from you, Sprtsracer, and Yogai really opened eyes. I think i have a really good ideas of what to do now.


----------



## whate

Carolina Rebel said:


> ...The Daiwa has one little weakness, the stock drags are poor--an easy fix with a $4 set of Smooooth Drags, or better yet some Carbontex washers--and one Achilles heel: The brass pinion gear. Penns have a rock-solid stainless pinion gear, while the Daiwas, all of the Daiwas, have a failure-prone brass one, and replacements are hard to find for some of the older or more rare models. For the newer 400Hs, 600Hs, and the 30Hs and 50Hs this isn't a problem, but for others parts availability can be an issue...The Daiwa comes with it for free, and to me aluminum sideplates are priceless.


Thanks Carolina Rebel, this is getting better!! I was almost sold on Penns 'til you come along. Is there a tutorial that show how to do the upgrade you mention? I saw many tutorials on rebuliding/repairing Penns, but rarely any for Daiwa.


----------



## treydunn48

Carolina Rebel said:


> The merit of the Daiwas is that they are all aluminum--not only the solidly built one piece frame, but also the sideplates. I've cracked the bakelite sideplate on a Penn(a model 9M) by dropping it. I've also had the little part of the sideplate that retains the eccentric break on two Penn reels, a 155 and again a 9M. Effectively the reels are useless once this breaks, and given what I paid for them in the first place they were totalled.
> While the Jigmaster has the one piece frame, the Senators and alot of other Penn reels use crossbars for support. These are alright if you take rigorous care of them, but if a screw gets stuck in one side, they can be a headache to take loose. In my experience, Penns are more prone to frame flex (one loose screw can lead to it) because they don't have a solid frame--just a series of crossbars with screws on either end. Having owned quite a few of them, I am not a huge fan of the Penn bakelite sideplate reel, nor any graphite-sideplated reel for that matter. IMO the Daiwas are easier to work on--the anti-reverse dog is a breeze to deal with compared to the Penn's, and there aren't nearly as many screws to deal with. Take a Penn apart and you have 4+ crossbars, 2 screws per crossbar, 4 screws for the sideplate, 4 screws for each side of the reel foot, 2 bakelite sideplates, and then the internal components. Take a Daiwa Sealine apart and you have a solid aluminum sideplate with the reel foot built in, 2 aluminum sideplates, 4 sideplate screws, 4-6 screws per side that hold the sideplates to the frame, and the components. Its a world of difference when it comes down to it. The Daiwa has one little weakness, the stock drags are poor--an easy fix with a $4 set of Smooooth Drags, or better yet some Carbontex washers--and one Achilles heel: The brass pinion gear. Penns have a rock-solid stainless pinion gear, while the Daiwas, all of the Daiwas, have a failure-prone brass one, and replacements are hard to find for some of the older or more rare models. For the newer 400Hs, 600Hs, and the 30Hs and 50Hs this isn't a problem, but for others parts availability can be an issue. With the Penns this is never an issue. That said, the choice is yours. Either reel would probably serve you fine and last for years with proper care, but you would have to pay alot money for a one piece frame for the Penn. The Daiwa comes with it for free, and to me aluminum sideplates are priceless.


 Hence purchasing a triburon frame or a accuframe


----------



## Tracker16

whate said:


> The only Penn is have is the jigmaster, and i dont have reels from different brand to compare; and even if i do, i wont be able to tell which is more durable. From reading i see many ppl swears by Penn, at the same time there are ppl who swears by Daiwa too (and shimano, accurate, avet, etc..). I know i'm in the right place to ask question, and hope to gain some insights from other's experience so i could make the right decision.
> 
> JT.


My father has Penn 6/0 reels that he has used all his life and they are older than me and I'm 53. Is that tough enough for you ???


----------



## Tracker16

Carolina Rebel said:


> The merit of the Daiwas is that they are all aluminum--not only the solidly built one piece frame, but also the sideplates. I've cracked the bakelite sideplate on a Penn(a model 9M) by dropping it. I've also had the little part of the sideplate that retains the eccentric break on two Penn reels, a 155 and again a 9M. Effectively the reels are useless once this breaks, and given what I paid for them in the first place they were totalled.
> While the Jigmaster has the one piece frame, the Senators and alot of other Penn reels use crossbars for support. These are alright if you take rigorous care of them, but if a screw gets stuck in one side, they can be a headache to take loose. In my experience, Penns are more prone to frame flex (one loose screw can lead to it) because they don't have a solid frame--just a series of crossbars with screws on either end. Having owned quite a few of them, I am not a huge fan of the Penn bakelite sideplate reel, nor any graphite-sideplated reel for that matter. IMO the Daiwas are easier to work on--the anti-reverse dog is a breeze to deal with compared to the Penn's, and there aren't nearly as many screws to deal with. Take a Penn apart and you have 4+ crossbars, 2 screws per crossbar, 4 screws for the sideplate, 4 screws for each side of the reel foot, 2 bakelite sideplates, and then the internal components. Take a Daiwa Sealine apart and you have a solid aluminum sideplate with the reel foot built in, 2 aluminum sideplates, 4 sideplate screws, 4-6 screws per side that hold the sideplates to the frame, and the components. Its a world of difference when it comes down to it. The Daiwa has one little weakness, the stock drags are poor--an easy fix with a $4 set of Smooooth Drags, or better yet some Carbontex washers--and one Achilles heel: The brass pinion gear. Penns have a rock-solid stainless pinion gear, while the Daiwas, all of the Daiwas, have a failure-prone brass one, and replacements are hard to find for some of the older or more rare models. For the newer 400Hs, 600Hs, and the 30Hs and 50Hs this isn't a problem, but for others parts availability can be an issue. With the Penns this is never an issue. That said, the choice is yours. Either reel would probably serve you fine and last for years with proper care, but you would have to pay alot money for a one piece frame for the Penn. The Daiwa comes with it for free, and to me aluminum sideplates are priceless.


Interesting comments but a 9m and a Senator or even a Squidder are not even in the same class contruction wise and I own all 3 models so I know. If you think I am wrong I suggest you take them and put them side by side and you will surely see what I mean


----------



## drawinout

Tracker16 said:


> My father has Penn 6/0 reels that he has used all his life and they are older than me and I'm 53. Is that tough enough for you ???


I've got my father's 4/0 and 6/0 penn senators from the 70's.. They've caught tuna, wahoo, white marlin, king mackeral, some big stripers, and they still work great!!!!:fishing: 

I can vouche for the penns being able to take a beating and stand the test of time. That being said, I do like some daiwa and shimano products as well, so I'm definitely not advising against other products.


----------



## Carolina Rebel

treydunn48 said:


> Hence purchasing a triburon frame or a accuframe


Or you can just purchase the Daiwa and save yourself the $70+ cost of a Tiburon frame, even more for an Accurate frame. 

Regarding Tracker 16's comment, the 9M isn't built nearly as strong as a Penn Senator......I currently own those, 2 Jigmasters, a 4/0 and a 9/0 Senator and they are tough reels. Seeing the construction of the Daiwa Sealines I've been picking up for cheap on eBay has really caught my attention though, I just wish I knew someone who would make stainless gears for these things. If they had come with stainless pinion gears I would sell all of my Penns flat out. When it comes down to it, if you take reasonable care of your gear any of these reels, or any Shimano, Avet, Pro Gear, you name it, will work for you. Even Shakespeare makes some beefy looking conventional reels that I'm sure catch big fish every year, and catching trophy king mackeral on Ambassadeurs seems to be a growing sport. Personally though, I'm tough on equipment. I'm clumsy, I drop things, and I have been known to neglect reels here and there when I get tied up during a busy spell at work. Given that, I think the Daiwas are my best choice just because they're built a little better and cost a little less.


----------



## Double-D Extreme

Well you have read arguments both ways here with great reasoning behind each. The thing I'm gonna address is your basic setup. A 5' to 6' rod w' all roller guides is a boat rod plain and simple. If its an 80-130# class rod, a 9/0 or 900H would be the smallest reel I would go with. Your 6, 5 and 4/0's As well as 600H and 400H IMHO just don't have the capacity that you need with that rod. As far as trying to cast it? Theres no way... 4/0's or 400H's are large casting reels (you better have big hands) They are the largest reels I would try to cast. Some guys can throw a 6/0, but not many successfully and with distance. For what you are trying to do (8' or less sharks and other big gamefish) and to be castable with some distance, go with a 10-12' custom rod or try an Okuma Solaris in a 10 or 12. Put a Daiwa 50HSD or a 400H or even a sealine X50HSD. All have good capacity and will take braid. As far as spooling, start with 5 yds of 80# to 300-400 yds of 50# braid (Jerry Brown is my choice in braids) and 100-150yds of 30 big game or Jinkai top shot to a 20' 50# shock leader. Use albright knots for joining your mono to the braid and a blood knot to tie on your shock leader. The 80# is so if you get spooled, at least you can keep your braid (expensive) and lose the top shot. Right before you get to the mono on the bottom of the spool, crank down on the drag and if need be, wrap the line around the outside of the reel 3 or 4 times and hang on. The 30# mono will then break and you will get your braid back at least. Me and alot of guys I know keep the same braid on a reel for several seasons (will not rot or deteriorate) and just respool the top shot. Most of the time, all you will use is the mono anyway. The braid is there in case you get a small freight train that starts pulling alot of drag. Then you have quite a bit of line to play him with. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## treydunn48

Carolina Rebel said:


> Or you can just purchase the Daiwa and save yourself the $70+ cost of a Tiburon frame, even more for an Accurate frame.
> 
> Regarding Tracker 16's comment, the 9M isn't built nearly as strong as a Penn Senator......I currently own those, 2 Jigmasters, a 4/0 and a 9/0 Senator and they are tough reels. Seeing the construction of the Daiwa Sealines I've been picking up for cheap on eBay has really caught my attention though, I just wish I knew someone who would make stainless gears for these things. If they had come with stainless pinion gears I would sell all of my Penns flat out. When it comes down to it, if you take reasonable care of your gear any of these reels, or any Shimano, Avet, Pro Gear, you name it, will work for you. Even Shakespeare makes some beefy looking conventional reels that I'm sure catch big fish every year, and catching trophy king mackeral on Ambassadeurs seems to be a growing sport. Personally though, I'm tough on equipment. I'm clumsy, I drop things, and I have been known to neglect reels here and there when I get tied up during a busy spell at work. Given that, I think the Daiwas are my best choice just because they're built a little better and cost a little less.


 In my opinion i would only add triburons or accuframes for looks for casting competitions but if it were me id just clean it and grease it and not care about appearance if it gets me just as many fish. Isnt that what matters?


----------



## sprtsracer

treydunn48 said:


> In my opinion i would only add triburons or accuframes for looks for casting competitions but if it were me id just clean it and grease it and not care about appearance if it gets me just as many fish. Isnt that what matters?


Ditto...also, the newer 113H and the wide model now come with a half-frame and only one cross post at the top. As far as a screw getting stuck, that comes from one thing and one thing only...lack of care and maintenance. One should immediately, upon receipt of a new reel, back out the frame screws and add some Penn blue grease or similar and re-tighten. This prevents any seizing. Oh...BTW...if you watch "Jaws", that big reel being used was a Penn Senator. While granted, it was a movie, they were/are used in real life for big sharks without any fear of frame flex, and the Senators hold more IGFA world records for big game than all other reels combined. As far as casting from the beach...you may actually want to take a look at the Penn 113HN Baja Special. Higher gear ratio (4.3 : 1) More drag (27 lbs) More ball bearings (6), and lighter (29 oz.) and thus easier to cast. They are very easy to mag and much more controllable. Line capacity is less, but that, as stated before, can be overcome with the use of braid. They originally sold for $250, but are no longer made, so I have seen them go on Ebay for around $100-$150, with the latter being new in-the-box.


----------



## ReelCreel

*A Few More Options??*

I am also weighing in options for beach bound shark fishing.

So...Option 1: Use my older ("post" construction, but in excellant shape) Penn 113H and upgrade with Tiburon frame and perhaps better drags, bearings and mag brake.

Option 2: Penn Baja Special 113HN. Its 6 bearings, 4.25:1 retrieve, and 28 lb of drag make it very attractive. Perhaps installing a mag brake wpould make it even better.

Option 3: Penn Metal Senator 113 MTL. Its aluminum frame and side plates with "integrated side plate" design, double dog anti-reverse, 4.25:1 retrieve ratio and Versa-Drag system also make it arttractive. Lower bearing count (3) detracts a bit and I am not sure of country of manufacture,

Option 4: BassPro Captain's Choice 4/0. Sure looks like it evolved from a Penn 113H but upgraded with machined aluminum frame, 4 SS bearings...all at a low price ($99.99). But I am not sure about its long term durability, parts availability, etc. Also its relatively low retrieve ratio (3.0:1) detracts a bit.

So any thoughts out there? Anyone with any experiance with the BassPro reel? Frankly while I used fish the salt a fair amount (when I lived in NC and NJ) but now (with job in OH) I only get out for about a week a year. Nevertheless I like good equipment, so I am anxious to hear your thought and recommendations. Thank you.


----------



## scsurfcaster

get a penn 6/0 and a buddy who will hang with you share kayak duty and some big hooks.


----------



## inshoreangler95

ReelCreel said:


> Option 4: BassPro Captain's Choice 4/0. Sure looks like it evolved from a Penn 113H but upgraded with machined aluminum frame, 4 SS bearings...all at a low price ($99.99). But I am not sure about its long term durability, parts availability, etc. Also its relatively low retrieve ratio (3.0:1) detracts a bit.
> 
> So any thoughts out there? Anyone with any experience with the Bass Pro reel? Frankly while I used fish the salt a fair amount (when I lived in NC and NJ) but now (with job in OH) I only get out for about a week a year. Nevertheless I like good equipment, so I am anxious to hear your thought and recommendations. Thank you.


The captains choice reels are not exactly what i would call strong, durable or dependable. I have seen these reels get locked up while trying them at bps. Do not expect them to be anything like a Senator, at least from what i hear. For this price you might as well get a new 113h or a new daiwa sealine x. I hear these are very nice reels, they are very cast-able and have good line capacities. You should take a look at these.:fishing:


----------



## treydunn48

option 1-3 sound good 1 is cheapest since you already have it then 2 is good but then again it requires more braid more braid=more money and if you get option number 1 try for a topless version easier casting and last but not least option 3 is good but as for the versa drag it wont be that helpful because you will always need it on heavy your trying to stop the truck going the other way


----------



## whate

Double-D Extreme said:


> ...For what you are trying to do (8' or less sharks and other big gamefish) and to be castable with some distance, go with a 10-12' custom rod or try an Okuma Solaris in a 10 or 12. Put a Daiwa 50HSD or a 400H or even a sealine X50HSD.
> 
> ... As far as spooling, start with 5 yds of 80# to 300-400 yds of 50# braid (Jerry Brown is my choice in braids) and 100-150yds of 30 big game or Jinkai top shot to a 20' 50# shock leader. Use albright knots for joining your mono to the braid and a blood knot to tie on your shock leader. The 80# is so if you get spooled, at least you can keep your braid (expensive) and lose the top shot. Right before you get to the mono on the bottom of the spool, crank down on the drag and if need be, wrap the line around the outside of the reel 3 or 4 times and hang on. The 30# mono will then break and you will get your braid back at least...


Double-D Extreme, is there a visual illustration of the set tup you mentioned? As i'm new to all this, I can't visualize how this is done. Thanks.


----------



## yogai

whate said:


> Thanks Yogai. Since you've used the 600h quit a bit can you give me some thought about your experience with it vs. the penn 6/0?
> 
> JT.


The 600H has a slightly faster retrieve than the 114h (3.1:1 vs 2.8:1), is fully aluminum, and has doesn't get rusty or corroded as easily b/c it doesn't have the little metal crossbars and only 2 of the sideplates. The 600h also has a basic spool brake, which will allow you to get adjusted to casting a large spool reel. Plus you can get the 600H for cheaper than the senator. It's a little smaller than the senator, but a 114h is too big in my opinion. the 600h is a great size imo. As some people have said, parts are a little harder to find, but any repair shop will have them or you can call for parts directly from daiwa.


----------



## Double-D Extreme

Whate, try this: 

I &-----(5 yds 80lb mono)-----&(Albright Knot)-----(400yds 50# JBI Braid)-----&(Albright knot)-----(150 yds 30lb Big Game)-----&(Blood Knot)-----(10yds 50# mono or fluoro)-----&(Berkeley Knot)Rig

I - Reel Spool
& - Knot
( ) - knot type or line size and type

See if this helps.


----------



## sprtsracer

yogai said:


> The 600H has a slightly faster retrieve than the 114h (3.1:1 vs 2.8:1), is fully aluminum, and has doesn't get rusty or corroded as easily b/c it doesn't have the little metal crossbars and only 2 of the sideplates. The 600h also has a basic spool brake, which will allow you to get adjusted to casting a large spool reel. Plus you can get the 600H for cheaper than the senator. It's a little smaller than the senator, but a 114h is too big in my opinion. the 600h is a great size imo. As some people have said, parts are a little harder to find, but any repair shop will have them or you can call for parts directly from daiwa.


Yogai...while I totally respect you favoring the Daiwas...please do not think that the modern 113/114 H's have multiple crossbars that will "corrode" and "get rusty"! This all boils down to proper reel care. I don't care if you have a reel that's completely stainless, magnesium, graphite, alluminum, "KRYPTONITE", or whatever...if you don't take care of the reel, it's going to have problems! That includes the Daiwas! As I already stated, the newer Penns have only ONE crossbar...at the top...and a dab of blue grease in the ends of the screws on either side will take care of any problems regarding "lack of maintenance"! We are not talking about a 1960's reel here! A 113H can be had for less than $100 on ebay...NEW! I'll take it one step further...the 113/114's from the 1960's, even with the 4 crossbars and the black sideplates (original Senator)...will still out-perform the Daiwas and their brass pinion gears. They will also be cheaper and easier to maintain. Also...not "any repair shop" will have the parts for the Daiwas. They will have to be ordered in, and they will cost more...if available.


----------



## whate

Double-D Extreme said:


> Whate, try this:
> 
> I &-----(5 yds 80lb mono)-----&(Albright Knot)-----(400yds 50# JBI Braid)-----&(Albright knot)-----(150 yds 30lb Big Game)-----&(Blood Knot)-----(10yds 50# mono or fluoro)-----&(Berkeley Knot)Rig
> 
> I - Reel Spool
> & - Knot
> ( ) - knot type or line size and type
> 
> See if this helps.


Thanks Double-D Extreme. I think if i keep staring at this long enough i'll see something


----------



## whate

Thanks everyone for sharing your experience; especially sprtsracer, yogai, bstarling, Carolina Rebel, Double-D Extreme. You helped making my transition into conventional less daunting.

At the end, here is what I ended up with:

Jigmaster - my 1st one

(114hlw :: near new, Daiwa 600h :: near new, Penn 9/0 with a matching penn 9/0 rod :: good used condition) - got these from a person on Craigslist.

I figured since I'm not on a tight budget and everyone here brought up many good points about each of these reels, so I decided to get them all and try myself to see what fits my taste. For the ones that I don't like, they're going to the ..Bay.

A side note, while reading about reels i found that i like the Saltist too. There are many ppl using the Saltist 50h to surf cast in UK for big fishes and sharks (less than 8') . I think for this one i have to go the store to get the feel for it. This could be my next reel.

I'm 5'7 with small hands. My next challenges are:

1) find couple of good/affordable rods (not the top brand ones, can't afford them right now 
2) learn to tight knots
3) learn to cast


----------



## whate

forgot to mention the 113h and the fenwick stand up 80-130 6'5.


----------



## treydunn48

try checking out newells 500 series but you must learn to cast bc they will burn a thumb quick and one is slightly larger than a 114h with 50lbs/500yds


----------



## scout04

Option 3: Penn Metal Senator 113 MTL. Its aluminum frame and side plates with "integrated side plate" design, double dog anti-reverse, 4.25:1 retrieve ratio and Versa-Drag system also make it arttractive. Lower bearing count (3) detracts a bit and I am not sure of country of manufacture,

I can personally vouch for this reel and the 12' ocean master heavy as a casted shark rig that will handle "larger" sharks. i have caught several in the 5'-6' range on this set up as well as a 9'6" lemon shark and the reel and the rod performed flawlessly. the longer rod works against you in the fight but is necessary to get the bait out there for a casted rig. the reel is loaded with 100lb power pro with an 80lb bbg topshot. ive got pics if your interested. youll also either need a glove or will need to static mag this reel for casting, if you dont your thumb is going to get smoked !!!!!!


----------



## scout04

Option 3: Penn Metal Senator 113 MTL. Its aluminum frame and side plates with "integrated side plate" design, double dog anti-reverse, 4.25:1 retrieve ratio and Versa-Drag system also make it arttractive. Lower bearing count (3) detracts a bit and I am not sure of country of manufacture,

I can personally vouch for this reel and the 12' ocean master heavy as a casted shark rig that will handle "larger" sharks. i have caught several in the 5'-6' range on this set up as well as a 9'6" lemon shark and the reel and the rod performed flawlessly. the longer rod works against you in the fight but is necessary to get the bait out there for a casted rig. the reel is loaded with 100lb power pro with an 80lb bbg topshot. youll also either need a glove or will need to static mag this reel for casting, if you dont your thumb is going to get smoked !!!!!!


----------



## seajay

sprtsracer said:


> Yogai...while I totally respect you favoring the Daiwas...please do not think that the modern 113/114 H's have multiple crossbars that will "corrode" and "get rusty"! This all boils down to proper reel care. I don't care if you have a reel that's completely stainless, magnesium, graphite, alluminum, "KRYPTONITE", or whatever...if you don't take care of the reel, it's going to have problems! That includes the Daiwas! As I already stated, the newer Penns have only ONE crossbar...at the top...and a dab of blue grease in the ends of the screws on either side will take care of any problems regarding "lack of maintenance"! We are not talking about a 1960's reel here! A 113H can be had for less than $100 on ebay...NEW! I'll take it one step further...the 113/114's from the 1960's, even with the 4 crossbars and the black sideplates (original Senator)...will still out-perform the Daiwas and their brass pinion gears. They will also be cheaper and easier to maintain. Also...not "any repair shop" will have the parts for the Daiwas. They will have to be ordered in, and they will cost more...if available.


And Thats The Truth. :beer::fishing:


----------

