# 9 foot lemon



## cobia_slaya (Jan 19, 2010)

ive never been able to figure out how to post pics lol


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## sunburntspike (Oct 4, 2010)

did you catch it CJ? As for pic posting you gotta do a photo bucket account and a bunch of simple hoops to jump thru,or send 'em to my in box and i should be able to get em up


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## cobia_slaya (Jan 19, 2010)

its not cj we have similar names lol, and thanks for the info


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## sunburntspike (Oct 4, 2010)

sorry for the mis-name,i can't tell the difference,must be old age kick my arse again!!!LOL!!!


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## cobia_slaya (Jan 19, 2010)

it not a problem at all, lol the pics will be up in a few minutes


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## cobia_slaya (Jan 19, 2010)

http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp310/chris10_19/313531_452843624738572_1849255027_n.jpg
http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp310/chris10_19/558301_480668025279700_1588505226_n.jpg


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## sunburntspike (Oct 4, 2010)

nice feeshie,hell of a smile!!!


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## cobia_slaya (Jan 19, 2010)

thanks spike


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## westernny (Feb 18, 2006)

Where did you catch that at ?


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## ncsharkman (Mar 12, 2011)

Nice lemon sir! congrats to you!


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## striperswiper (Nov 30, 2004)

thats a sandtiger AkA Garbo.. not a lemon


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

striperswiper said:


> thats a sandtiger AkA Garbo.. not a lemon


 Well,there actually was a lemon caught on Avon Pier last Monday.. I SAW the fish,definatly a lemon 8.5 to 9',wieghing from 250-350lbs,was caught on a pinrig,and just about dumped the guy with 60lb braid... One good thing was he did not want to beach the fish or stick a gaff in it,so he simply got some pics and broke him off at the pilings...


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## BlueCollarBob (Jan 9, 2011)

Yep, nice sandtiger. Congratulations on the nice catch.


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## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

What do they measure the official length on fork or tail? The reason I ask is I have been measuring fork length as any other thing caught...

Here is my largest caught a while back at a 9 foot fork length....


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Chris_Worthington said:


> What do they measure the official length on fork or tail? The reason I ask is I have been measuring fork length as any other thing caught...
> 
> Here is my largest caught a while back at a 9 foot fork length....
> View attachment 7920


 Suppose to measure fork length on a shark... OBTW,that's a dern nice'n there,congrats...


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## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

Nice shark, ive been waitin my turn all season and i think the falls gonna be my time. IOts a shame you "cant keep" sandtigers, they would make awesome jaw trophys and the meat is good from what ive heard


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

NC KingFisher said:


> IOts a shame you "cant keep" sandtigers, they would make awesome jaw trophys and the meat is good from what ive heard


Down here, there are very few sharks that you CAN keep...


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## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

solid7 said:


> Down here, there are very few sharks that you CAN keep...


Like i said, you cant keep garbos, and down in florida yall are screwed, you cant even keep lemons cause of some stupid scientist. I dont even keep or want to keep a tiger or especially a hammer. Both are just to cool


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## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

Drumdum said:


> Suppose to measure fork length on a shark... OBTW,that's a dern nice'n there,congrats...


I think most add in the several feet of tail, JMO... cuz when I look at some of these pics I say there ain't no way it is??

Silly fisherman and their rulers


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## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

Chris_Worthington said:


> I think most add in the several feet of tail, JMO... cuz when I look at some of these pics I say there ain't no way it is??
> 
> Silly fisherman and their rulers


Fork length is for keeping them. When you report it its total length


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## ncsharkman (Mar 12, 2011)

You measure fork length! By the way, from the pictures I can't really see the teeth and the pic is not that good! A lemon looks a hell of a lot like a sand tiger except for the coloring and the lemon has much shorter teeth but both have the same basic body shape as far as dorsal and second dorsal size relationship and placement. either way it's a nice catch.


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## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

NC KingFisher said:


> Fork length is for keeping them. When you report it its total length


Not sure I am following here..... Sounds like your saying when I catch something I should add in the extra length/weight cuz?

When I was younger I took all the citations I could get, no matter what the species fresh or salt. Now I just like to take "actual" measurements for myself. Don't really care to have anymore paper or am out to say mine was bigger then yours stuff... to damn old to care anymore 

But I do like to know what is the "Official" measurements are just for me...


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## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

Chris_Worthington said:


> Not sure I am following here..... Sounds like your saying when I catch something I should add in the extra length/weight cuz?
> 
> When I was younger I took all the citations I could get, no matter what the species fresh or salt. Now I just like to take "actual" measurements for myself. Don't really care to have anymore paper or am out to say mine was bigger then yours stuff... to damn old to care anymore
> 
> But I do like to know what is the "Official" measurements are just for me...


When you measure it to keep it, the size regulations say you measure fork length.


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## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

NC KingFisher said:


> When you measure it to keep it, the size regulations say you measure fork length.


and when I or others report it?

And when does the story change ?


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## ncsharkman (Mar 12, 2011)

Its fork length for a citation or record but over all length for bragging rights!


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## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

ncsharkman said:


> Its fork length for a citation or record but over all length for bragging rights!


Well then my largest is about 13' cuz I know them things have tails that never seem to end 

Still looking for a 10' though as I just like to improve upon things,,,, one day


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Chris_Worthington said:


> Not sure I am following here..... Sounds like your saying when I catch something I should add in the extra length/weight cuz?
> 
> When I was younger I took all the citations I could get, no matter what the species fresh or salt. Now I just like to take "actual" measurements for myself. Don't really care to have anymore paper or am out to say mine was bigger then yours stuff... to damn old to care anymore
> 
> But I do like to know what is the "Official" measurements are just for me...


 Exactly.. Many report a 50" drum when in reality it's a 47.. Nice sized fish,but it ain't 50" fork,and when you do catch one for real,that is a true "ole warrior fish" and needs to be celebrated with at least 5 good pulls from a Crown bottle.. jmho...

Sharks same way,and I agree totally with what you are saying...


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Drumdum said:


> Exactly.. Many report a 50" drum when in reality it's a 47.. Nice sized fish,but it ain't 50" fork,


But drum don't have a "fork"... 

Here in Florida, we measure drum overall length... Forked tail fish are ALL measured according to the fork length...


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## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

Google the pics of a "Red Drum" some have forks and others do not?

I knew or at least I thought I knew they had short forks, but never really payed attention before now....

Why it be? The sex of?


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Chris_Worthington said:


> Google the pics of a "Red Drum" some have forks and others do not?
> 
> I knew or at least I thought I knew they had short forks, but never really payed attention before now....
> 
> Why it be? The sex of?


That's interesting... I see what you are saying. Not sure if it would count as one or not, but certainly you are correct that some do seem to display a subtle fork. I don't catch enough drum to know if that's an illusion, or real. I do know that there's no way you're gonna be able to lie 3" onto a fish with that little bit of change, though.

When I measure drum, I lay them flat on the ground, and pinch the tail, until the rays of the tail fin reach the longest possible length. (basically pointing 180 degrees away from the head) Then I measure. That's how the rangers measure to check your slot size here, also...


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

Nice fish. Congrats on the catch.


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## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

solid7 said:


> That's interesting... I see what you are saying. Not sure if it would count as one or not, but certainly you are correct that some do seem to display a subtle fork. I don't catch enough drum to know if that's an illusion, or real. I do know that there's no way you're gonna be able to lie 3" onto a fish with that little bit of change, though.
> 
> When I measure drum, I lay them flat on the ground, and pinch the tail, until the rays of the tail fin reach the longest possible length. (basically pointing 180 degrees away from the head) Then I measure. That's how the rangers measure to check your slot size here, also...


Must be related to the lobster family? Slightly large tail and the swimmerets/tail is softer for the females?

Okay I have no freaking clue as to why? But I now want to know


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

solid7 said:


> That's interesting... I see what you are saying. Not sure if it would count as one or not, but certainly you are correct that some do seem to display a subtle fork. I don't catch enough drum to know if that's an illusion, or real. I do know that there's no way you're gonna be able to lie 3" onto a fish with that little bit of change, though.
> 
> When I measure drum, I lay them flat on the ground, and pinch the tail, until the rays of the tail fin reach the longest possible length. (basically pointing 180 degrees away from the head) Then I measure. That's how the rangers measure to check your slot size here, also...


 I measure drum for tagging,trust me you can put an extra 2 to 3" on a fish by measuring the full length of the fish.. Our citation here in NC is 40" total length,have seen it many times where a 37 or 38" fish can be milked into a citation by measuring this way instead of measuring fork length... On a big fish if you measure to the center of the tail,or fork of tail, you get a true length,if you squeeze the tail on a big fish,even slot fish you can get as much as 3" on a big fish.. Our ncdmf recomends you measure tag fish from the fork,when measuring a slot fish you are suppose to squeeze the tail and measure total length.. Trust me,if you measure to the fork,from the tip and center of head, straight down body,with VERY little curve of tape to center of tail,like you would on one of the "golden rulers" that you lay the head at end) for a slot fish you will eventually wind up with a ticket...  It can vary and does from fish to fish,but it is true...


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## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

Drumdum said:


> I measure drum for tagging,trust me you can put an extra 2 to 3" on a fish by measuring the full length of the fish.. Our citation here in NC is 40" total length,have seen it many times where a 37 or 38" fish can be milked into a citation by measuring this way instead of measuring fork length... On a big fish if you measure to the center of the tail,or fork of tail, you get a true length,if you squeeze the tail on a big fish,even slot fish you can get as much as 3" on a big fish.. Our ncdmf recomends you measure tag fish from the fork,when measuring a slot fish you are suppose to squeeze the tail and measure total length.. Trust me,if you measure to the fork,from the tip and center of head, straight down body,with VERY little curve of tape to center of tail,like you would on one of the "golden rulers" that you lay the head at end) for a slot fish you will eventually wind up with a ticket...  It can vary and does from fish to fish,but it is true...


Why does it appear some have no fork?


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Chris_Worthington said:


> Google the pics of a "Red Drum" some have forks and others do not?
> 
> I knew or at least I thought I knew they had short forks, but never really payed attention before now....
> 
> Why it be? The sex of?


 Think it just varies with individual fish,no matter the sex,like my wife could have big feet and I don't...  

Have seen some drum with almost no fork and fish that have a pronounced fork,as well as having seen one that survived having no tail fin at all,and fought pretty good for not having one for that matter..

Anyway,back to topic,Sharkman is right about a garbo and lemon looking close,they both have a "double dorsal"..The teeth can be a huge clue,and I see none in the pic.. Not a big shark id guy,but I can tell a garbo from the teeth,but would defer to a much better id man when looking at the pics cause no teeth shown.. The lemon I saw on Avon had the teeth,and if I can nab the pic from fb I will post them...


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## ncsharkman (Mar 12, 2011)

Drumdum said:


> Anyway,back to topic,Sharkman is right about a garbo and lemon looking close,they both have a "double dorsal"..The teeth can be a huge clue,and I see none in the pic.. Not a big shark id guy,but I can tell a garbo from the teeth,but would defer to a much better id man when looking at the pics cause no teeth shown.. The lemon I saw on Avon had the teeth,and if I can nab the pic from fb I will post them...


 Drumdum is correct plus a lemon will kick your ass fighting where most sand tigers fight like a log! The teeth on a lemon are much shorter and the lemon usually has a yellow tint to its coloring. most sand tigers have blotchy spots on them and the lemon will display some lateral stripes when they are fighting in close. lemons also have slightly longer p[ectoral fins that are not as rounded on the tips. Sandtigers are often called ragged tooth sharks because of the 
Mako' type long ass teeth that would give a dentist a night mare!


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

ncsharkman said:


> Drumdum is correct plus a lemon will kick your ass fighting where most sand tigers fight like a log! The teeth on a lemon are much shorter and the lemon usually has a yellow tint to its coloring. most sand tigers have blotchy spots on them and the lemon will display some lateral stripes when they are fighting in close. lemons also have slightly longer p[ectoral fins that are not as rounded on the tips. Sandtigers are often called ragged tooth sharks because of the
> Mako' type long ass teeth that would give a dentist a night mare!


 Yeap,guy on Avon had a 30 international way beyond half a spool before he turned him.... I've caught several out of a boat,and can tell you a sandtiger ain't got nothing on a lemon...


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## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

Lemon vs sandtiger= freight trane vs log


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## narfpoit (Jun 16, 2004)

Drumdum said:


> I measure drum for tagging,trust me you can put an extra 2 to 3" on a fish by measuring the full length of the fish.. Our citation here in NC is 40" total length,have seen it many times where a 37 or 38" fish can be milked into a citation by measuring this way instead of measuring fork length... On a big fish if you measure to the center of the tail,or fork of tail, you get a true length,if you squeeze the tail on a big fish,even slot fish you can get as much as 3" on a big fish.. Our ncdmf recomends you measure tag fish from the fork,when measuring a slot fish you are suppose to squeeze the tail and measure total length.. Trust me,if you measure to the fork,from the tip and center of head, straight down body,with VERY little curve of tape to center of tail,like you would on one of the "golden rulers" that you lay the head at end) for a slot fish you will eventually wind up with a ticket...  It can vary and does from fish to fish,but it is true...


Why would NCDMF recommend measuring fork length for tagging fish when you are required to measure total length for slot drum? Changing the way you measure something part way through its life cycle seems as foolish as saying when a child reaches 15 you start including his outstretched arms when you measure his height. 

From what I can tell looking through the regs any fish with a rayed tail (tails that can be compressed) are measured total length with the tail compressed. Fish with hard tails are measured to the fork. The cobia is the only one that really does not follow this rule as it looks like its tail is sort of in-between the the two types and it is measured as fork length.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

narfpoit said:


> Why would NCDMF recommend measuring fork length for tagging fish when you are required to measure total length for slot drum? Changing the way you measure something part way through its life cycle seems as foolish as saying when a child reaches 15 you start including his outstretched arms when you measure his height.
> 
> From what I can tell looking through the regs any fish with a rayed tail (tails that can be compressed) are measured total length with the tail compressed. Fish with hard tails are measured to the fork. The cobia is the only one that really does not follow this rule as it looks like its tail is sort of in-between the the two types and it is measured as fork length.


A "fork" may not always be a hard tail. Take a look at our state regulations to see what I'm talking about. I had to re-educate myself, as a side effet of this conversation.

http://myfwc.com/fishing/saltwater/recreational/fish-measurement/ (notice hogfish and triggerfish - and these aren't the only ones)

I think it has to make sense for the species. And for a shark, overall length, as pointed out, isn't the best way to measure. Just like some guys are a little more well endowed than others, shark length to tail ratios aren't all the same.... (especially if gene pools are shallow)


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## narfpoit (Jun 16, 2004)

I like how you guys have nice pictures with diagrams on measuring. Anyway in NC Hogfish is total length and triggerfish does not have a size limit.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

narfpoit said:


> Why would NCDMF recommend measuring fork length for tagging fish when you are required to measure total length for slot drum? Changing the way you measure something part way through its life cycle seems as foolish as saying when a child reaches 15 you start including his outstretched arms when you measure his height.
> 
> From what I can tell looking through the regs any fish with a rayed tail (tails that can be compressed) are measured total length with the tail compressed. Fish with hard tails are measured to the fork. The cobia is the only one that really does not follow this rule as it looks like its tail is sort of in-between the the two types and it is measured as fork length.


 Don't know for sure,think it is because fl is a little more consistent in terms of length and wieghts of the fish.. That is what they suggest taggers do though.. I have always measured fl until the "slot thing" came out it was a non issue.. It does make a difference on the lengths by measuring to the fork,even with,as you suggest a soft tail..?


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## Chris_Worthington (Jul 13, 2012)

narfpoit said:


> I like how you guys have nice pictures with diagrams on measuring. Anyway in NC Hogfish is total length and triggerfish does not have a size limit.





Drumdum said:


> Don't know for sure,think it is because fl is a little more consistent in terms of length and wieghts of the fish.. That is what they suggest taggers do though.. I have always measured fl until the "slot thing" came out it was a non issue.. It does make a difference on the lengths by measuring to the fork,even with,as you suggest a soft tail..?


So when applying for a paper TL would apply then according to the link above in NC?

Is there some documentation on this slot measurement? I like to eat them puppies, but I like "cover me arse" even more....

I can see this as stretching a close slot or shrinking a large slot... either way an inch either way and your in trouble with the LEO.


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## narfpoit (Jun 16, 2004)

Chris_Worthington said:


> So when applying for a paper TL would apply then according to the link above in NC?
> 
> Is there some documentation on this slot measurement? I like to eat them puppies, but I like "cover me arse" even more....
> 
> I can see this as stretching a close slot or shrinking a large slot... either way an inch either way and your in trouble with the LEO.


From the NCDENR website. 

(C) RED DRUM
Unlawful to possess red drum greater than 27 inches total length. Unlawful to gig, spear, or gaff red drum.

Total length (TL) is measured from tip of snout with mouth closed to top of compressed tail. Fork length (FL) is measured from tip of snout to middle of fork in tail. Lower jaw fork length (LJFL) is measured from lower jaw to middle of fork in tail. Curved fork length (CFL) is the measurement of the length taken in a line tracing the contour of the body from the tip of the upper jaw to the fork of the tail.

Drum, red 
(Channel Bass,
Puppy Drum) 18-27" TL (C)	1/Day	

Also make sure you lay them down on a hard ruler to measure. Do not use a soft ruler going across the top. I recommend something like the hawgtrough or the golden rule as anytime I have been checked this is the type ruler that was used.


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