# Back Bay hours



## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Rather than hijacking another thread on which the subject was mentioned, I thought I'd start a new one.

On Back Bay's regulations page, it clearly states: _The Refuge is open during daylight hours only (1/2 hour before sunrise until 1/2 hour after sunset)._

Sunrise is at 6:20, which means we should be able to enter at 5:50 AM. Sunset is at 7:30, which means we have to be out of there by 8:00 PM. Opening at 7 and closing at 7 is clearly in violation of the rules of the park, and this new ranger shouldn't get away with it.

Please register your complaints about the new ranger breaking the rules at the following places:

--Fish & Wildlife Service
--[email protected]
--[email protected]


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## Hat80 (Sep 22, 2002)

*Anyone have a name and or badge number*

for this new ranger? It sure would help when making the complaint.....Tightlines


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

Thanxs Flea...I knew Bucket's been dippin in tha Mr.Brown Again...........

But as you may already know...there ain't no fish @ the Refuge....jus mean and Nasty Ranger wives and a the Dean.......

Hope we don't get a repeat of the Beech from HEll!!!

Poor FLF...can't get in the gate


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Hat80 said:


> for this new ranger? It sure would help when making the complaint.....Tightlines


Bucket or Dixie might be able to help. They were run off a couple of days ago at 7.


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

Ranger Dean was a ... well, let's just say he wasn't very nice to db77, NS4D and me the other night. He pulled up in his van as we were walking to the beach. He said Al's truck must be out of the parking lot by 7:30pm or it would be towed. Then he drove off. 
Al was spitting mad.  
Bucket was right on walking softly. It's better to be polite but firm with the rangers. Too much lip and you'll be fishing only the LIP.
NS4D, it's a 1/2 hour.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

So let's do something with that anger. Ole' Dean is breaking the law. Let's call him on it and let his superiors know.

Use the links I posted and make a stink.


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## Dixie719 (May 12, 2003)

Is that a P&S Pledge Pin on your tackle bag?










I bet we are on double secret probation if you know what I mean!!  

"I really hate P&S Guys those guys!"










Don't know who the new one is, but I know if you ain't fishing or walking, there asking you to leave. I'm sure we will meet and greet this weekend as much as we are gonna fish it. 

As far as the gates opening when the say they should, it ain't happening. Sat there plenty of times with others after the sun had risen waiting to get in! That's TY and LY!!

Time to take a few photo's of plates again I think and send off!


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

> Sat there plenty of times with others after the sun had risen waiting to get in!


Been there. Done that. Did the wait.
Flea, isn't John C. Sauer the guy who runs the web site??? I dunno if he's the one to call with a complaint. Or maybe I missed something.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

On second thought, you're probably right. I yanked Sauer's name. Just send e-mails to FWS with the links above.


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## Dixie719 (May 12, 2003)

Just sent my e-mail off to FWS!


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## Dixie719 (May 12, 2003)

*E-Mail response*

Thank you for contacting the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. 

We have forwarded your message to another member of our team who will respond to the questions. You should receive a response within 2-5 business days. 

For future reference, your message ID number is:

Regards,
Customer Service Center
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service 

We regret that we are unable to accept replies sent to this mailbox; if you have further questions on this subject please forward this message to [email protected] If you prefer to contact us by telephone, we encourage you to call our Customer Service Center at 1-800-344-WILD, Monday through Friday from 8 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. eastern time. 

Let us know how we are doing. Please send us a message by visiting: 

http://www.fws.gov/duspit/letusknow.htm


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## Hat80 (Sep 22, 2002)

*E-mails sent*

I'll make a call in the morn. ....Tightlines


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## Prophet (Sep 2, 2005)

Hmmm- new here but...........

I think if you raise a "stink". You will only upset the ramgers and insight them. They can very easily I'm sure amand the rules to suit their needs, so the better part of valor would be to tread softly.If you raise a big enough stench I'm sure we can look forward to not fishing there at all. Yeah it's fustrating not getting what you want, but no one ever said life is fair.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

Gee Rangers not following the Rules go figure where have I heard that before???? It happens to alot of people in the LE profession they now consider themselves above the law great ain't it... JAM :--|


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## Advisor (Jan 12, 2003)

Hay Flea,
Maybe you haven't heard about it; but, that area is part of the WAVY TV 10 viewing area. That being, TV 10 has a program called 10 ON YOUR SIDE that takes on situations just like this. Ya'll may want to contact them. If they do agree to get involved, "Ranger "BOB" will have much more than he can handle.
Just my 2c worth.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Prophet said:


> They can very easily I'm sure amand the rules to suit their needs, so the better part of valor would be to tread softly.


No, they can't. Back Bay's hours were set by Federal law in the late 1970's. They can no more bend the hours to suit themselves than I can bend the speed limit to suit myself.

I'm not advocating rudeness or confrontation. I am advocating letting their bosses know they are skipping out on their shifts and keeping all of us out of a place funded by taxpayer dollars. If they want different hours, they need to change the law. Until then, they need to abide by it.


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## fishbone4_14_74 (Feb 7, 2005)

This is a ? off another fourm and answered by a working member of Park Receractions in Sand bridge.
Question??
??Between Labor Day and Memorial Day (tourist season in Va Beach), is beach fishing disallowed close to Sandbridge Pier at all times, or is fishing allowed before and after the lifeguards are on duty each day??

Answer:
normaly befor and after life gaurds how ever you can fish from the beach .were it is posted for sport fishing this is located to the south of the pier about 2-3 hundred yards . There is a lage sign up in the dunes. from the sign to the piles in the sand that marks the begining of back bay you can surf fish the hole time the park is open
in legal terms you are trustpassing after 11pm on city land how ever i have never heard of anyone having a problem . if you park on the street you are risking a parking ticket if the cop is a hard head. behind the sandbridge market is a city parking lot that never closes 24/7-365 there are no sighns that say anything about no parking after dark or any time at all.(safest bet just no pier ) the pier is closed at 10:40 main gates to the park lock at 11


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

sand flea said:


> No, they can't. Back Bay's hours were set by Federal law in the late 1970's. They can no more bend the hours to suit themselves than I can bend the speed limit to suit myself.
> 
> I'm not advocating rudeness or confrontation. I am advocating letting their bosses know they are skipping out on their shifts and keeping all of us out of a place funded by taxpayer dollars. * If they want different hours, they need to change the law.* Until then, they need to abide by it.



what i guess your saying is that you've never broken the speed limit? 

lets all be honest. we all bend rules, the chances of getting caught alone are small, the chances we will change our behavior due to getting caught is much slimmer. Its twenty minutes, if u think that 20 minutes is worth perhaps jepordizing our fishing rights..... 

lets not make a huge stink about 20 minutes. its not like they closed access to the beach for a damn bird. we complain to much and your right flea, THEY"LL JUST CHANGE THE LAW THEN. We as fisherman, in that area have the privies of fishing, not the right. Make a big stink if you want, if you think that the federal govt's employees will not take this personally your on a different world. you think they dont know which fisherman are complaining about them? you dont live in VA anymore, dont get the rangers mad at me when you only fish here 2 weeks out of the year.


i have fished there twice in the past 2 weeks. neither time have i left before 8pm (the beach) left the gates by 840 or so. i have never have a bad run in with one of the rangers as well. (although it only takes one storm trooper to ruin it)

flea, im all with you on the ORV access, and almost getting hit by vehicles, and getting my gear run over, but im not sure this fight is worth even getting that mad about. lots of things in life arent fair, but sometimes, you just gotta deal with them. how do u think my generation feels about the rest of america that cant put the twinkie down and raises all our premiums? get mad all i want, and it aint gonna fix nothin


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## Hat80 (Sep 22, 2002)

*Whats with the 180 Niel?*

That wasn't your opinion when it came to the Point.



NTKG said:


> this is all my opinion, i mean no offense to anyone, im just going to say whats on my mind and i want you guys to understand just that, that this is only my personal opinion...
> 
> 
> i heard about the closure as soon as everyone else did. and i havent said anything about it, bc i wanted to research everything, i wanted to not type mean things or talk a buncha sh_t to people, but this is a very serious issue. and we as a community of fisherman need to adress it, by any means legally neccessary.
> ...


Give um 30mins now and they'll take it all later!.....Tightlines


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

hat... WAY TO CALL ME OUT!!!! i knew you were goin to, and on a good note, you did it way faster than i thought you were goin to!!!



here's whats up. as far as the POINT, FALSE POINT, well, 12 as a general stretch of beach.... there is a lot more traffic down there. there are a lot more calls/emails that will be made than at back bay. yes, for an issue like that i believe the average citizen had a shot. i dont think the (generous) 40 people that fish Back Bay regularly will amount to anything down there except upsetting people and possibly getting it shut down. like i said, i dont think this particular case will get near enough press to make things happen. thats all. the point and the OBX in general are a different story. how much traffic/revenue does Back Bay or conversely will the closure generate? not anywhere near the amount of the an entire villages like buxton. 

but your right, in theory you are completely right, and im completely full of crap. but honestly in the way that things work out, i think this is a case of me picking my battles. 

you bring up a good point though hat, i just dont wanna get worked up about something i just dont believe will change anything... i would love to be wrong. and push comes to shove, of course im on the side of anglers, but for right now im not sure if it is the best course of action... imho.... 


neil


again HAT, thanks for callin me out, i am a fisherman first so perhaps even if its not a fight i think we can win, i will send an email after this post


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## lowpine (May 28, 2002)

The truth will set you free.

Back Bay is not the ranger's deal, it's OUR deal. That's OUR park. We should have access according to what the Federal law mandates. It should be opened and closed according to what the Federal law mandates, not at the whim of the ranger.

If the park is not open when it is supposed to be, that should be brought to the attention of supervision. The ranger isn't responsive, so go up the chain. Remeber, that's OUR park. 

What's the truth here?

stevenj


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

the truth here is that if that is what is to be done, someone needs to go ahead and find out the exact times of sunup/sundown -30, +30... distribute it to everyone including the rangers and see how that works out. do u see where the difficulty comes in? how in this particular case i dont believe rangers are doing the storm trooper thing they were down south. its just a matter of logistics. i mean the few rangers that work there cant be everywhere at once. theres a much larger issue at BB and that is ORV access. all or none.... pick one so i can stop getting clipped by damn people. also we can see that that issue has gone nowhere as well.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2005)

Guys,

I just got off the phone with Ranger Dean and discussed the daylight hours. Apparently, the 30 minutes before sunrise and 30 minutes after sunset maybe on the Web site, but people who enter should go by the booklet handout that anyone can pick up when entering the refuge that apparently doesn’t state the +/- 30 minutes. When he goes to court, he goes by that hand book; and to define sunset, he’s going by the actual time the sun drops the horizon which is roughly 7:28. 

Initially when I talked to him, he seemed a little evasive when I mentioned that a park ranger was kicking people out early. He mentioned he had an issue with some people a couple days ago (and in the past) that pulled up at 7:00pm and was going fishing. He told them they had to be out at sunset. If this is the case, I can’t see someone pulling up at a half hour before sunset, lugging all their gear a ¼ mile down the beach and fish only a half hour, unless they came to fish all night. His explanation to me seems pretty reasonable on his part. I doubt this issue is the same experience you had newsjeff because Ranger Dean’s description of the vehicle isn’t a van. 

Anyway, I asked why Ranger Deans Web site hours that include the 30 minutes before and after were in conflict with the booklet that doesn’t specify that. He didn’t know and he wasn’t the Web master of the site. 

He told me if I’m out there fishing and I’m a few minutes after the sunset time (around 7:28 or so) and I’m on the property packing up my car, he wouldn’t make an issue of it, but he does have an issue with people packing up at dark and then taking an hour while walking a mile up the beach to their car to leave. Again, this is reasonable to me. 

I assume this 30 minutes before and after came from the Web site. Did it? If not where did it come from? If these 30 minutes is written into the law somewhere, then Ranger Dean may need some education on the fact and if what he told me is a little off-base, then hopefully my call, your calls and emails will let him know that people are watching and he’ll cool his jets. 

Don’t lay down on issues and walk softly in fear of losing them. He’s not the mythical big, bad, all powerful wolf; at least call, get the facts & info and fight if need be. He is just a federal employer that answers to someone like all do. Go to his boss in DC if you don’t get anywhere with him.

Let’s go fishing!


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## Hat80 (Sep 22, 2002)

*If this is the case?*



Pauky said:


> Guys,
> 
> I just got off the phone with Ranger Dean and discussed the daylight hours. Apparently, the 30 minutes before sunrise and 30 minutes after sunset maybe on the Web site, but people who enter should go by the booklet handout that anyone can pick up when entering the refuge that apparently doesn’t state the +/- 30 minutes. When he goes to court, he goes by that hand book; and to define sunset, he’s going by the actual time the sun drops the horizon which is roughly 7:28.


Someone needs to get one of the booklets and post the info. With that said, IMO whats on the GOV website is what should be what the public go's buy.

People tend to use the net to plan ahead. Not wait until they get to a entrance to make the days plans. Either way, they should state the same info. .....Tightlines


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

> If this is the case, I can't see someone pulling up at a half hour before sunset, lugging all their gear a ¼ mile down the beach and fish only a half hour, unless they came to fish all night. His explanation to me seems pretty reasonable on his part. I doubt this issue is the same experience you had newsjeff because Ranger Dean's description of the vehicle isn't a van.


It's the same instance. We were in a pickup, not a van. 
We intended to get there by 6pm, but I held everyone up. We finally pulled into the refuge at 7pm. And were told to leave by 7:30pm.
You know, I'm really not that upset. Yes, it's a long drive for a short fishing session (expensive too with gas at $3 a gallon). But we knew that when we left the house. We left the park 15 minutes after we were told to leave. Without getting towed. In my eyes, both us fishermen and Dean - right or wrong - were pushing the envelope.
I'm with Neil on this one. The last thing I want to due is make our relationship with the rangers any worse. It's just not worth it. The next thing you know someone "spots" a sea turtle and the beach is closed for the rest of the season. 
At least one of my friends who fishes BB a lot has worked on building a relationship with the rangers over the last few years. If we get on their good side maybe we could even get a few more privileges there. I dunno. I just hate to see my friend's time and effort go to waste. 
Be firm. But please be polite. I'm sure Dean wants to get home at the end of his workday just like everyone else.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2005)

Oh so that was you guys. Sorry, I miss-read your post. 

I’m not pointing fingers or taking sides except the right side; I’ll have to, forced to, go with Ranger Dean on this one. If he was rude then that’s a different matter for discussion. 

I think we’ll be OK on the beach and I don’t think he or the Federal Govt will make up excuses to close the beach because they’re getting tired of the anglers. If we abide by the rules then they shouldn’t be doing anything outside their own rules. 

Dean did say he’d like to talk to you guys and he didn’t seem irate. He even told me to stop in and talk to him as well. My impression is that he’s not out to stick it to anyone based on our conversation. You guys going there this weekend?

I’m still curious about this +/-30 minute thing. They need have their Web site and their little booklet match up.


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## Dixie719 (May 12, 2003)

Pauky said:


> I’m still curious about this +/-30 minute thing. They need have their Web site and their little booklet match up.


You can download their booklet in pdf (adobe) on the website (HOME PAGE AT BOTTOM). I did not see the +/- time in the booklet, so we do have an issue with the website and the booklet. 

The booklet states: "The refuge is open during daylight hours only." on page 10.


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

Pauky, the exchange between the ranger and Al seemed rude to me. Here we are with full gear walking to the beach. We're all thinking that sunset was at 7:35pm and we had until 8:05pm to be out of the park. He pulls up, rolls down his window and says nothing else but "if you're truck is still in the parking lot at 7:30pm it will be towed." Then he drives off. 
That's bad PR, IMHO. That kind of attitude is gonna make it hard both sides to get along. Again, IMHO, he could have been a little nicer. This was the first time I've seen this guy. And he didn't make a good first impression. 
I dunno. Maybe Al's pissed him off in the past?


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2005)

What’s the date on that booklet if any? The Web site’s last update was March, 2004. That’ really doesn’t matter. If anyone gets a ticket or fine from a ranger, print out that Web page and that should be some ground to dispute it in court provided you're reasonabley within the rules

Jeff,

Ranger Dean did say he’s had problems in the past with your group, so perhaps your friend did get him PO’ed at some point. He recognized someone in your group.

Were you guys really only going to fish 30 minutes after that long drive, walk to the beach, and setting up all that equipment?


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

Booklet soomklet . . . what counts is federal law. If you go to court with the booklet and federal law are in conflict the judge will side with the law.

Somewhere along the line I found these laws the last time that this stuff came up with the folks driving down to NC on the beach. Usually I copy that kind of stuff onto a hard drive somewhere. I will poke around this evening.

Tom


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2005)

Tom,

I think that booklet contains the law people are to abide by.


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

No the booklet is something that somebody wrote. I am forever finding little errors on the VMRC web page. Since I know the guy that keeps it up I send him feedback whenever it happens and he fixes them. The booklet should follow the federal law below is the law. The ranger is just as obgilated to follow the law as you or I. 

Here is the link to the full text:

http://frwebgate1.access.gpo.gov/cg...ISdocID=69824240349+2+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

Below is the part that counts it should be quoted to the ranger or his boss when providing feedback.

TITLE 50--WILDLIFE AND FISHERIES

CHAPTER I--UNITED STATES FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE 
INTERIOR--(Continued)

PART 26_PUBLIC ENTRY AND USE--Table of Contents

Subpart C_Public Use and Recreation

Sec. 26.34 Special regulations concerning public access, use and recreation 
for individual national wildlife refuges.

Virginia

Back Bay National Wildlife Refuge

Access

[(a) through (m) mostly relate to cars going to NC, commercial fishing operations, etc.]

General Rules

 Entry on foot, bicycle or motor vehicle. Entry on foot, bicycle, or by motor vehicle on designated routes is permitted one-half hour 
before sunrise to one-half hour after sunset for the purposes of nature observation and study, photography, hiking, surf fishing, and bicycling.

(o) Beach-oriented uses. Designated areas of the refuge beach are open to wildlife/wildlands-oriented recreation only as outlined in paragraph  of this section. Entry to the beach is via designated access points only.

(p) Parking. Limited parking at the refuge office/visitor contact station is permitted only in designated spaces. Parking is available on a first-come, first-serve basis for persons engaged in wildlife/ wildlands-oriented recreation only as outlined in paragraph  of this section.

(q) Fires. All fires are prohibited.

(r) Pets. Dogs and other pets, on a hand-held leash not exceeding 10 feet in length, are permitted from October 1 through March 31.

(s) Other general rules. (1) Pedestrians and vehicular traffic in the sand dunes are prohibited.

(2) Use by all groups exceeding 10 individuals will require a Special Use Permit, issued by the refuge manager.


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## johnnyleo11 (Dec 17, 2003)

Fellas,

Pauky has stated that he called up and asked questions about a certain ranger being less than friendly to patrons. What a proper action to take.

Why is that some of us are blowing this out of control? You should be able to contact his immediate supervisor and hopefully the problem will be amended. I think you may get in to a much larger problem if you try to get a paper trail up to Washington.

If anyone else has been in the military, we all know that we go to someone's immediate supervisor if we have a problem with that someone. When we jump the chain, stories get all mixed up and communication breaks down immensely. After that, they've fixed a problem that didn't exist and caused a new order of stress and the original issue hasn't even been touched! Keep things personal and you'll have better results. Some higher up isn't going to know the exact story and won't be able to react in the same manner that you think they should. I have never had a problem with a ranger at the refuge. I ended up talking with one of the rangers for 20 minutes when I was fishing one day. I can't remember his name, but he's dark haired with glasses.


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

Oh I am not suggesting that you take this to DC. The local rangers may not be aware of the federal law regarding the opening and closing times. Whoever wrote the booklet certainly was not. 

Like I said I deal with the folks at VMRC that I know on a first name basis when I have issues. 

Tom


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## johnnyleo11 (Dec 17, 2003)

I don't believe VMRC has jurisdiction over Back Bay.


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

I know I know. It was just and example. The point is that I am sure that once the ranger realizes what the federal laws require of him he will comply. 

Tom


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2005)

Yeah, we wouldn't want to jump the chain of command on this one. I believe this can be handled at the Rangers level. I know he knows about the 30 minute rule, but he may not realize it's actually the law since he goes by the booklet which is either incorrect or needs to include the 30 minutes.

Tom,

Thanks for the good info and the link. I printed it out and I'll take one for the pierandsurf team and hand carry it to Ranger Dean in the morning since he asked I stop in and chat with him. I'll highlight it and show him it specifically states 30 minutes.

I even printed out the Naval Observatory sunset time for Virginia Beach and even shows the "End Civil Time" which probably indicates where the "30 minutes after" comes from. Below the code box is a definition of "Civil Time." This is all to make things crystal clear to the Ranger so anglers don't get unjustly fined by any ignorance of those who enforce the law. 

We should have things handled at the lowest level and we should have our full time under the law to fish. Now, if the Ranger tries to kick someone out a half hour early still, then we could push the issue and he can get into trouble if he's been shown the proper information; wouldn't you agree? If he’s enforcing the law, I believe that it’s his responsibility to know the law like we have to.


```
[B]U.S. Naval Observatory[/B]
Astronomical Applications Department


Sun and Moon Data for One Day
The following information is provided for 
[B]Virginia Beach, Virginia [/B] 
(longitude W76.1, latitude N36.9): 

        Saturday 
        3 September 2005      Eastern Daylight Time          

                         SUN
        Begin civil twilight       6:11 a.m.                 
        Sunrise                    6:37 a.m.                 
        Sun transit                1:04 p.m.                 
[B]        Sunset                     7:30 p.m.                 
        End civil twilight         7:56 p.m.                 [/B] 
                         MOON
        Moonset                    7:19 p.m. 
        Moonrise                   6:18 a.m.                 
        Moon transit               1:05 p.m.                 
        Moonset                    7:42 p.m.                 
        Moonrise                   7:17 a.m. 

 
New Moon on 3 September 2005 
at 2:46 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time.
```
Source: http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneDay.html 




> According to the U.S. Naval Observatory, civil twilight is defined to begin in the morning, and to end in the evening when the center of the Sun is geometrically 6 degrees below the horizon. This is the limit at which twilight illumination is sufficient, under good weather conditions, for terrestrial objects to be clearly distinguished; at the beginning of morning civil twilight, or end of evening civil twilight, the horizon is clearly defined and the brightest stars are visible under good atmospheric conditions in the absence of moonlight or other illumination. In the morning before the beginning of civil twilight and in the evening after the end of civil twilight, artificial illumination is normally required to carry on ordinary outdoor activities. Complete darkness, however, ends sometime prior to the beginning of morning civil twilight and begins sometime after the end of evening civil twilight.
> Sunrise and sunset conventionally refer to the times when the upper edge of the disk of the Sun is on the horizon, considered unobstructed relative to the location of interest. Atmospheric conditions are assumed to be average, and the location is in a level region on the Earth's surface.
> 
> Source: http://www.planetultra.com/civil.html


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

Pauky said:


> Ranger Dean did say he’s had problems in the past with your group, so perhaps your friend did get him PO’ed at some point. He recognized someone in your group.
> 
> Were you guys really only going to fish 30 minutes after that long drive, walk to the beach, and setting up all that equipment?



Ive known ta pi$$ off a few folks.................but com'on......jus ta feesh????!!!!!.I can think of a million an 1 laws ta break...........

Deans a d!ck!!!!!


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

Nserch4Drum said:


> Ive known ta pi$$ off a few folks.................but com'on......jus ta feesh????!!!!!.I can think of a million an 1 laws ta break...........
> 
> Deans a d!ck!!!!!



yeah so can i... how wants to help?
yeha man im not so sure about people who go into LE to be a fake hard ass... he should come to richmond and work gilpin court for a night then we'll see whats up


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

Nserch4Drum said:


> Thanxs Flea...I knew Bucket's been dippin in tha Mr.Brown Again...........
> 
> But as you may already know...there ain't no fish @ the Refuge....jus mean and Nasty Ranger wives and a the Dean.......
> 
> ...


Ifn there aint no fish down dere then ya won't be down dere fer the drum bite that wont happen this year. Would that be correct Mr. Al.


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

Fishman said:


> Ifn there aint no fish down dere then ya won't be down dere fer the drum bite that wont happen this year. Would that be correct Mr. Al.


Thaeere are no drum @ BB....jus blues


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## baitslingin (Jul 31, 2005)

dam man why do even bother fishing if its like you so eliquently put it all the time"there AINT no fish there"(please refer to just about any of your posts)..


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## BrokenRod (Sep 6, 2004)

You tell 'em NTKG. Man you bought back some memories i wanted to forget. Jackson Ward. I grew up in Mosby court and also had a stint in Blackwell. Oh sorry for the thread interruption.

Love, Peace, and Chicken Grease!!!
Take Someone Fishin


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

Al, Piss someone off or be rude or impolite?  Noooooooo not our Al  Oh yea this is Al were talkn about,, forgot,,,, Al did ya wizzz on his tires again  Ya got to start hangn around me more often to learn how to be polite and sweet like me


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## johnnyleo11 (Dec 17, 2003)

baitslingin said:


> dam man why do even bother fishing if its like you so eliquently put it all the time"there AINT no fish there"(please refer to just about any of your posts)..



HAHAHA


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

baitslingin said:


> dam man why do even bother fishing if its like you so eliquently put it all the time"there AINT no fish there"(please refer to just about any of your posts)..




aint no fish in da ocean...  LOL


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

baitslingin said:


> dam man why do even bother fishing if its like you so eliquently put it all the time"there AINT no fish there"(please refer to just about any of your posts)..




Yup....that's it...I've lost...I'm a broke man...I'm given up fishin...since there are no fish ,any where I go.....

SO.....RIP ,fishin tackle.....I'm takin up a SEWING :--| :--|


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## the rhondel (Feb 6, 2003)

Shooter...iffn Al hung around you,anything small piece of decency he might have would be shot ta chi*  .......the R


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## inawe (May 24, 2003)

*Gilpin area*

you got that right


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