# New hook knot setup I have developed



## Fireline20 (Oct 2, 2007)

Maybe this has been done before but I am tying a double 50lb mono surgeons loop that uses one piece of mono but gives you the strength of 100 lb mono without the bulk and gives you a backup line if one should break or be bitten thru.

Here is how I tie it:

1. From a spool of 50 lb mono, strip off 3 feet and cut.

2. Take the line and half it by lining up the two ends and pinching the middle to make it flat

3. Feed the pinched middle of the line thru the eye and loop it back around the hook end like a palomar.

4. Put a loop in the two lines above the eye and loop that back around the hook again like a palomar and pull tight

5. Feed the two ends back thru the eye and repeat step 4.

6. Take the two ends again and feed them back thru the eye and pull tight

7. Take the two tag ends sticking out of the eye and double those again and pinch in the middle.

8. Tie a surgeons loop and trim on the pinched end of the doubled tag line left. Pull tight and trim

You now have a hook, with two lines coming out the end about 6 inches long and if one of the 50 lb lines break or is bitten through, the other will still hold.

Here are some pics:
http://pierandsurf.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=4923&cat=500

http://pierandsurf.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/4922/cat/500

I will try make a step by step picture group and post latter this week.


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## chesapeake_kid (Oct 25, 2008)

looks like a solid knot have you tested it yet?


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## Fireline20 (Oct 2, 2007)

chesapeake_kid said:


> looks like a solid knot have you tested it yet?


Not yet, waiting on the spring.

Gave it to some of my buddies who do some catfishing in the local lakes and they loved it.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Not sure I understand the reasoning, 100# aint that much bulkier than 50#. 

Seems a lot easier just to snell a hook with 100#.

If ya want added security bump up your line.

I use 130# Suffix leader for my hooks, snell the hook and tie a nail knot to swivel.

Sorry if I am missing something.


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## Fireline20 (Oct 2, 2007)

Cdog said:


> Not sure I understand the reasoning, 100# aint that much bulkier than 50#.
> 
> Seems a lot easier just to snell a hook with 100#.
> 
> ...


two lines
backup,,bite thru on one leaves the other
damage 100# it will break at much less
more sensitive
can be tied with lower poundage 

but to each his own, but for me 130# seems a bit much to try to tie


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Fireline20 said:


> two lines
> backup,,bite thru on one leaves the other
> damage 100# it will break at much less
> more sensitive
> ...


Gotcha, what works best for you is the best.

Look forward to the follow up post.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Looks good in theroy but with the grass we have to deal with I think it may be a problem at times.....


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## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

Most 100lb line measures out less than double the thickness of the 50lb. Case in point: 50lb test Ande Premium micc's out at approximately 0.71mm while the 100lb test is 0.99mm, so the 100lb is only 39% thicker than the 50. However, if a fish can bite through one strand of 50, it can probably bite through the other as well while a single strand of 100 takes a sizable fish to do so. 

Besides, 130lb isn't that bad to tie. It's when you get over the 300lb mono size that gets challenging!


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

i use 100 , 120# .. single line does fine.
i honestly rather use a thicker line then 2 thinner lines.
only fishes on occasion. i have problem with are gator/monster blues,, 12lb+, when they thrash in the wash..

hook<snell/crimp - trace - palomar>swivel. done. 50# shocker, 15# mainline.


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## chris storrs (Aug 25, 2005)

for me atleast..chances are if im using a mono leader(drum fishing), and i hook something with teeth i wanna get bit off anyway...too much trouble...wish rays had sharp teeth


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## Mark H. (Nov 26, 2005)

Fireline20 said:


> Not yet, waiting on the spring.
> 
> Gave it to some of my buddies who do some catfishing in the local lakes and they loved it.


Must be some big catfish with huge teeth!!!!


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## StormCaster (Jan 31, 2006)

I rather go with 80 to 100# the have a weed snagging rig that is useless.


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## Charkbait (Oct 15, 2007)

tough crowd but I agree with them...


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## Mark Lindsey (Jun 28, 2005)

Give Fire a break. He's trying something new, we might all be using one day.


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## Fireline20 (Oct 2, 2007)

Mark Lindsey said:


> Give Fire a break. He's trying something new, we might all be using one day.


Ty Mark.

It seems that sometimes this site is full of Nimrods who cant accept a free gift without critical comment

Use it or don't use it, I don't care. I am cool with it either way.


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

Looks pretty solid. Keep us updated.


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## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

Except for one person whose comments were extreme and a tad rude, the rest of us were studying the rig, weighing the pros and cons, and offering opinions based out of our experience to get dialog going. Offering critique isn't quite the same as being critical. Nimrods?


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Fireline20 said:


> Ty Mark.
> 
> It seems that sometimes this site is full of Nimrods who cant accept a free gift without critical comment
> 
> Use it or don't use it, I don't care. I am cool with it either way.


Wow, how many times in the last few days has this happened. Disagree with one persons opinion and the name calling and bats come out. A gift is only a gift if you accept it.....

Nothing beats a good ole fashion 130# 10/0 FF Rig...


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## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

This is a 9/0 hook tied with 150lb mono  Like I said, it ain't hard until you get to 300lb+ before it's gets squirrelly.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Right on dude....:beer: opcorn:

Next.........The Cannonball...


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

AirDown said:


> Right on dude....:beer: opcorn:
> 
> Next.........The Cannonball...


Ditch the beads, believe it or not less helocoptering(SP)

Oooops, hope no name calling comes of this....:beer:


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Your right, I went to the smaller plastic instead of the glass ponies and no more problem...What did you call me.....


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## Mudd (Jan 10, 2004)

chris storrs said:


> for me atleast..chances are if im using a mono leader(drum fishing), and i hook something with teeth i wanna get bit off anyway...too much trouble...wish rays had sharp teeth


Most sensible thing I have read on this board in a long time. 


opcorn:


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## jlentz (Sep 11, 2005)

AtlantaKing said:


> This is a 9/0 hook tied with 150lb mono  Like I said, it ain't hard until you get to 300lb+ before it's gets squirrelly.


I had someone show me a knot to tie 500 lb mono to make a dummy line and it worked very well, not sure if it has a name. I have found the best knot for heavy line to be the Uni-knot which it looks like what you used in the pic. I have used it a few times to tie 400lb mono to reel arbors to use as teaser reels. Very easy to tie in heavy line, just need to make sure wraps line up correctly. I have even used it to tie 800lb commercial long line mono just to see if it is possible. Hardest part is putting enough pressure to slip the knot in place, other than that it is no more difficult than tying in 80lb line.

John


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*How is the long is this rig*



AirDown said:


> Right on dude....:beer: opcorn:
> 
> Next.........The Cannonball...


from hook to main line? And what lb. is rig tied with; does the swivel damage the line?


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Orest said:


> from hook to main line? And what lb. is rig tied with; does the swivel damage the line?


I make mine around 24" or so. Nope just use good swivels. Those plastic things are the devil...


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

jlentz said:


> I had someone show me a knot to tie 500 lb mono to make a dummy line and it worked very well, not sure if it has a name. I have found the best knot for heavy line to be the Uni-knot which it looks like what you used in the pic. I have used it a few times to tie 400lb mono to reel arbors to use as teaser reels. Very easy to tie in heavy line, just need to make sure wraps line up correctly. I have even used it to tie 800lb commercial long line mono just to see if it is possible. Hardest part is putting enough pressure to slip the knot in place, other than that it is no more difficult than tying in 80lb line.
> 
> John


If you wrap a Uni back on itself you get a Nail knot...


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*Thanks for the reply*

what type of fish are you targetting with this rig?


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Drum....In the surf...


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## jlentz (Sep 11, 2005)

AirDown said:


> If you wrap a Uni back on itself you get a Nail knot...


 The structure of the knots would be very close to the same but technically I would not consider it a nail knot since it does not have the second line that a nail knot is tied to. You would have to assume the standing line of the uni-knot is the second line. Basically it comes down to definition of the knot itself. A nail knot is used to join 2 separate lines. The uni-knot is actually connecting the tag end further up the main line, basically a sliding knot.

John


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## Drumboy (Jan 25, 2008)

I would think that if you your trying to not not get cut off you would want the to have around one leader of 80 to 100. In my opinion I would think that two 50's would be more likely to get cut off because there is more there to get cut off and tangled in a sharks mouth, but you never know you my be onto something new:fishing:


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

jlentz said:


> The structure of the knots would be very close to the same but technically I would not consider it a nail knot since it does not have the second line that a nail knot is tied to. You would have to assume the standing line of the uni-knot is the second line. Basically it comes down to definition of the knot itself. A nail knot is used to join 2 separate lines. The uni-knot is actually connecting the tag end further up the main line, basically a sliding knot.
> 
> John


Ok, nail with a loop.........Next...opcorn:


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## Carolina Rebel (Aug 25, 2005)

Take up crimping steel cable if you're worried about a bite off


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

jlentz said:


> The structure of the knots would be very close to the same but technically I would not consider it a nail knot since it does not have the second line that a nail knot is tied to. You would have to assume the standing line of the uni-knot is the second line. Basically it comes down to definition of the knot itself. A nail knot is used to join 2 separate lines. The uni-knot is actually connecting the tag end further up the main line, basically a sliding knot.
> 
> John


 If you were to tie a bimini.. Finish it with a uni,then take the uni and reverse it,no longer is it a uni,it is a nail knot.. If you were to use the tool and tie one to end the bimini they would be identical.. And yes a nail knot will slide up a line just as a uni.. Basically it will do anything a uni can,just harder to tie than a uni in most applications..... BTW,a nail is all I use to tie heavy leader,uni gets too sloopy looking and harder to get cinched... All of this is just what I have experienced,not being critical..


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## jlentz (Sep 11, 2005)

Drumdum said:


> If you were to tie a bimini.. Finish it with a uni,then take the uni and reverse it,no longer is it a uni,it is a nail knot.. If you were to use the tool and tie one to end the bimini they would be identical.. And yes a nail knot will slide up a line just as a uni.. Basically it will do anything a uni can,just harder to tie than a uni in most applications..... BTW,a nail is all I use to tie heavy leader,uni gets too sloopy looking and harder to get cinched... All of this is just what I have experienced,not being critical..


When you talk about using the Bimini and than reversing it it becomes a nail knot, that I agree with you it becomes identical to the nail knot. Read the original post that I made, it had nothing to do with reversing the knot or a second line. I posted about tying directly to a reel spool. Can you explain to me how to tie a nail knot to a reel spool?

John


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## jlentz (Sep 11, 2005)

actually, you could tie a Nail knot to a reel spool if you were to treat the spool arbor as the second line. It would probably not be very strong a knot as it would be pulling 90* to the wraps ,but I do not even use a knot to attach my line to the reels spool anyways. That would be nothing like the knot I mentioned above.

John


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## drum junky (Jan 23, 2008)

AtlantaKing said:


> This is a 9/0 hook tied with 150lb mono  Like I said, it ain't hard until you get to 300lb+ before it's gets squirrelly.


Thats a sweet lookin knot! Got any instructions to tie that?


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## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

*Double lines*



Drumboy said:


> I would think that if you your trying to not not get cut off you would want the to have around one leader of 80 to 100. In my opinion I would think that two 50's would be more likely to get cut off because there is more there to get cut off and tangled in a sharks mouth, but you never know you my be onto something new:fishing:


Ive had good succes with something similar to his rig. I would use a rig similar to firelines to attach to a mainline with either a catspaw or threeway swivel. If the hook gets bit off, just replace that hook. 

Also, I tie my own dropper loop rigs and quite often a bluefish will bite through one line and not the other. When using a double line I dont think thickness is the issue as much as surface area. There is more surface area of the circumference of two lines as opposed to the surface area of a single line. I would suggest that there may be some good thought here.

(Sorry, I'm finishing up Math 115 in college to fiinish my degree this semester).


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## Fireline20 (Oct 2, 2007)

Firespyder7 said:


> Ive had good succes with something similar to his rig. I would use a rig similar to firelines to attach to a mainline with either a catspaw or threeway swivel. If the hook gets bit off, just replace that hook.
> 
> Also, I tie my own dropper loop rigs and quite often a bluefish will bite through one line and not the other. When using a double line I dont think thickness is the issue as much as surface area. There is more surface area of the circumference of two lines as opposed to the surface area of a single line. I would suggest that there may be some good thought here.
> 
> (Sorry, I'm finishing up Math 115 in college to fiinish my degree this semester).


Thank you Firespyder,,,,your opinion is (in IMHO) the most valued in the forum. My intentions were exactly that, to provide a double backup for break offs or bite offs, without losing the sensitivity of the lower poundage mono.


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## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

Now the downside Fireline...Again, another opinion here...You know, like assholes and usually stink sorta deal here.

Part of my business is rope. Or line as a waterman would say. 

Knots in line are usually not good. What I mean is that anytime you tie a knot in the line it weakens your line by (X) amount of strength. Some knots are better than others because they weaken the line less but thats another story.

Bottom line here would be less knots you have in your rig the better off you'll be.


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## Fireline20 (Oct 2, 2007)

Firespyder7 said:


> Now the downside Fireline...Again, another opinion here...You know, like assholes and usually stink sorta deal here.
> 
> Part of my business is rope. Or line as a waterman would say.
> 
> ...


Thanks and point taken. 

I tried to eliminate the knots by looping the line like a palomar back around the hook and feeding the line back thru the eye like a snell.

The only true knot I believe I tie is in the surgeons knot at the end, which in my case i don't include a swivel which can easily be tied into the end point surgeons knot.

Please correct me if I am wrong but I believe, rightly or wrongly, the only knot I tie is the end point surgeons loops


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## eaglesfanguy (May 1, 2003)

Interesting..... Im constantly learning from you guys........


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

jlentz said:


> When you talk about using the Bimini and than reversing it it becomes a nail knot, that I agree with you it becomes identical to the nail knot. Read the original post that I made, it had nothing to do with reversing the knot or a second line. I posted about tying directly to a reel spool. Can you explain to me how to tie a nail knot to a reel spool?
> 
> John


 Relativly simple,I don't use a nail knot tool,just my fingers.. I can tie a nail anywhere I can tie a uni including a reel spool.....


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## jlentz (Sep 11, 2005)

Drumdum said:


> Relativly simple,I don't use a nail knot tool,just my fingers.. I can tie a nail anywhere I can tie a uni including a reel spool.....


Actually the proper name for the knot you mention is the loop nail knot. Nail knots and most of the varieties are actually bends not knots. By definition a bend is an attachment of one line to another. The only exception is the loop nail knot which was developed later and is the knot you are referring to. Although the knots end up being almost identical it is how it was formed that gives the knot the name. In this example, when I have to explain how to tie a knot to someone I would not tell them to tie a nail knot to connect two lines I would tell them to tie a uni (unless of course it is a fly fisherman). It is much easier and gives basically the same result. Below is a link to a discussion on the subject. It is on a very interesting site The International Guild of Knot Tyers forum.

http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1021.0

John


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

jlentz said:


> Actually the proper name for the knot you mention is the loop nail knot. Nail knots and most of the varieties are actually bends not knots. By definition a bend is an attachment of one line to another. The only exception is the loop nail knot which was developed later and is the knot you are referring to. Although the knots end up being almost identical it is how it was formed that gives the knot the name. In this example, when I have to explain how to tie a knot to someone I would not tell them to tie a nail knot to connect two lines I would tell them to tie a uni (unless of course it is a fly fisherman). It is much easier and gives basically the same result. Below is a link to a discussion on the subject. It is on a very interesting site The International Guild of Knot Tyers forum.
> 
> http://igkt.net/sm/index.php?topic=1021.0
> 
> John


 Always considered nail knot as being a nail knot for whatever application.. So you consider it a "loop knot"?? I've always considered a perfection loop,or Homer knot to be a loop knot because they don't slip,a nailknot will slip down and tighten itself under enough pressure.. I've registered on that site,am awaiting conformation.. Hopefully after 30yr plus of tieing this knot for all kinds of applications,I'll learn the error of my ways..


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## jlentz (Sep 11, 2005)

Drumdum said:


> Always considered nail knot as being a nail knot for whatever application.. So you consider it a "loop knot"?? I've always considered a perfection loop,or Homer knot to be a loop knot because they don't slip,a nailknot will slip down and tighten itself under enough pressure.. I've registered on that site,am awaiting conformation.. Hopefully after 30yr plus of tieing this knot for all kinds of applications,I'll learn the error of my ways..


I did not say that I considered it a loop knot, it would actually be a sliding loop knot. What I said is if you are tying a nail knot that is not connecting two lines than the *correct* name of the knot is a loop nail knot. The name is misleading, it is not a true loop knot, it just has the word loop in the name. I assume the name comes from the fact that the main line is looped back under itself and tied to it as opposed to being tied to the second line used in *all* other nail knots. Basically the way you would start almost any single line terminal connection knot. I would not consider it a true loop knot for the reason you mentioned about it slipping. Basically it comes down to the published definition and formation of the knot. Could I look at a loop nail knot and a Uni-knot both properly tied and tell the difference? No, I could not structurally they would be identical. 

The discussion I started by responding to one of the earlier posts dealt with tying a Uni-knot and when it reverses up on it self it becomes a nail knot. Technically, it would end up the same as a loop nail knot, not a nail knot(it lacks the second line as I mentioned earlier). The Uni-knot and loop nail knot do end up structurely identical, it is the method of tying that gives the name to the knot. 

John


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## OBX_Nomad (Mar 8, 2005)

Odds are that if a fish is knawing thru one 50 it's probably knawing thru the other at the same time. So, in my opinion it should take longer to wear thru one bigger diameter than it would to go thru two smaller ones simutaneousy. As a test lay two hunks of 50 on a cutting board and chop down thru them. Then lay a piece of 100 and do the same. Plus, if the two pieces of 50 aren't EXACTLY the same length you really don't have 100 lbs of strength. So, just a lot of work to go through for litttle, if any, gain.


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## Fireline20 (Oct 2, 2007)

OBX_Nomad said:


> Odds are that if a fish is knawing thru one 50 it's probably knawing thru the other at the same time. So, in my opinion it should take longer to wear thru one bigger diameter than it would to go thru two smaller ones simutaneousy. As a test lay two hunks of 50 on a cutting board and chop down thru them. Then lay a piece of 100 and do the same. Plus, if the two pieces of 50 aren't EXACTLY the same length you really don't have 100 lbs of strength. So, just a lot of work to go through for litttle, if any, gain.


1st. I never intended this to used as "toothy" rig, for that you should go with metal or 300 lb. The idea was to give you another strand for "back up" if you had a break in the other.

2nd. If you read up 2-3 posts, Firespyder comments on the relative strength of two strands versus ones strand with the two strands being stronger due to the increase in circumference.

3rd. It is not a lot of trouble, the rig can be tied in under 1 min, also if you read the instructions I provided, I call for halving the line at the start so you do start with two lines of equal length. 

4th. If you don't want a loop in it then just twist the lines together before you tie in the surgeon's loop or swivel at the end.

5th. There is no true knot in the rig as the line passes through the eye and around the shank of the hook like a Palomar two times but it is not tied off at the hook, instead a surgeon's loop or an improved clinch is placed at the terminal end.

So in essence you have a rig doubling if not exceeding two times the spool strength of the line your using, much like a Bimini Twist, but in my opinion is much easier to tie. But that is MHO and we all know what they say about opinions 

Use it or don't. I only present it is an option or a new solution.

Tight lines:fishing:


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## obxflea (Dec 15, 2007)

*OK, Help me out here....*

You are going through all this mess about having a "backup" insurance if one leg of your 50# breaks right? Are you going to be using 50# main line? Another question, if all of this brillliance is not for sharks, what is it for? Big blues? They can easily bite through 80# mono, so two 50# will fix that? I think you would be better off snelling with 100-130# mono or maybe consider some flourocarbon, connecting to your swivel with a nail knot. Using a coastlock or similar slide for your weight, not that plastic crap. AND quit trying to reinvent the wheel!!!!!!


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## Fireline20 (Oct 2, 2007)

obxflea said:


> You are going through all this mess about having a "backup" insurance if one leg of your 50# breaks right? Are you going to be using 50# main line? Another question, if all of this brillliance is not for sharks, what is it for? Big blues? They can easily bite through 80# mono, so two 50# will fix that? I think you would be better off snelling with 100-130# mono or maybe consider some flourocarbon, connecting to your swivel with a nail knot. Using a coastlock or similar slide for your weight, not that plastic crap. AND quit trying to reinvent the wheel!!!!!!



Did you read the last part:

Here it is again>

Use it or don't. I only present it is an option or a new solution.
__________
No one is holding a gun to your head!!! Did you pay anything for this rig?

Dude; I could give a rats arse if you use it or not, or like it or not besides I did not ask for your approval. So STFU

Geez;

Add another one to the NIMROD list. This site is getting full of them. Gonna start looking for another site, this place is just getting to damn hostile:--|


Tight lines:--|

PS;

Drum don't have teeth, and 99% of the blues caught now days are not over 5 lbs.


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## jlentz (Sep 11, 2005)

obxflea said:


> You are going through all this mess about having a "backup" insurance if one leg of your 50# breaks right? Are you going to be using 50# main line? Another question, if all of this brillliance is not for sharks, what is it for? Big blues? They can easily bite through 80# mono, so two 50# will fix that? I think you would be better off snelling with 100-130# mono or maybe consider some flourocarbon, connecting to your swivel with a nail knot. Using a coastlock or similar slide for your weight, not that plastic crap. AND quit trying to reinvent the wheel!!!!!!


If people did not try to reinvent the wheel we would be clubbing our fish not using high tech fishing rods. From reading some of the posts in this thread, most will not switch to this kind of rig but I respect Fireline for trying something new as opposed to just sitting back and using what everyone else does. It is this new way of trying different things that will advance this sport.

John


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## obxflea (Dec 15, 2007)

I understand that and totally agree 100%. At the same time, the same style of rig has been used for a LONG time and hasnt changed, and I dont see it changing for a LONG time if it ever does. More importantly is time, opportunity, and BAIT..


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## Fireline20 (Oct 2, 2007)

jlentz said:


> If people did not try to reinvent the wheel we would be clubbing our fish not using high tech fishing rods. From reading some of the posts in this thread, most will not switch to this kind of rig but I respect Fireline for trying something new as opposed to just sitting back and using what everyone else does. It is this new way of trying different things that will advance this sport.
> 
> John


TY John...Good to know there are some people in here that will at least consider something new without trashing it before they even try.

Works for me, I like it. All that counts

:fishing:


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## jlentz (Sep 11, 2005)

obxflea said:


> I understand that and totally agree 100%. At the same time, the same style of rig has been used for a LONG time and hasnt changed, and I dont see it changing for a LONG time if it ever does. More importantly is time, opportunity, and BAIT..


This holy grail of a rig you speak of, was it delivered to humans from the fish gods. I do not think so, it was developed from someone, to use a quote from you, "trying to reinvent the wheel". So I do not see why you would try to bash someone the way you did for trying something new. A simple discussion of what you thought of the rig would suffice.

John


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## obxflea (Dec 15, 2007)

OK, I am not the best surf fisherman in the world by any means. I have spent a little time on the beach though. I have tried new things, and it keeps coming back to the basic drum rig. Of course its fun to play around with new ideas that is what keeps ya going. I am not bashing anyone, just trying to get him to think about it. But its pretty obvious he will have to find out the hard way. That is fine, sorry if I came off a bit harsh. I guess in my time in the sand I have found that knowing when to fish, and what to fish with is WAY more important than your double line rig with loops everywhere.


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## Fireline20 (Oct 2, 2007)

obxflea said:


> OK, I am not the best surf fisherman in the world by any means. I have spent a little time on the beach though. I have tried new things, and it keeps coming back to the basic drum rig. Of course its fun to play around with new ideas that is what keeps ya going. I am not bashing anyone, just trying to get him to think about it. But its pretty obvious he will have to find out the hard way. That is fine, sorry if I came off a bit harsh. I guess in my time in the sand I have found that knowing when to fish, and what to fish with is WAY more important than your double line rig with loops everywhere.


Dude;

You dont know me, you dont know where I fish, how I fish or when I fish. You don't know what I fish for or what I have caught, when and where and with what.

So my advise to you, is to stick with crap that you do know,,,show some respect to others on this forum.

And if you really want to contribute, how about becoming a full subscriber, rather than a freeloading poster. Only costs you $20 then maybe I will listen to what ever 2 cents you have to say. Flame on

Over and out....last word from me to you


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## obxflea (Dec 15, 2007)

Good luck with your hook, knot developments and your $20 stickers.... :--|Double line loop master


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

obxflea said:


> Good luck with your hook, knot developments and your $20 stickers.... :--|Double line loop master


I don't think there is any reason to make this personal.

You don't like the rig, fine don't use it.

I will not but there is nothing wrong with trying new stuff, however calling people nimrods when they try to give advice/critisism is not great either.

And speaking of new rigs I saw a variation of the standard drum rig and a canon ball rig combined during the striper tourney. The only way to know if something will work or not is to try it...


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## OBX_Nomad (Mar 8, 2005)

Fireline, in your original post you stated that you were using this rig to give you a second line in case one breaks, or gets bitten off. Now you say that it's not for biters. I believe that what you wanted was for everyone to jump up and down and say "this is definately Bible worthy." Well it's not going to happen and now you're mad because no is buying into this. Why, because it just isn't necessary. If you don't want to be critiqued then don't post and open yourself up for it.


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## obxflea (Dec 15, 2007)

I guess what got me going is that someone puts something like that rig out there and wants to know what people think. Then cannot handle the constructive criticism and gets his panties in a bunch. IT was pointed out earlier in the thread that he may wanna take the advice of some of the experienced people on this fourm but that didnt seem to be an option. oh well, he will live and learn i guess


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## Tacpayne (Dec 20, 2008)

The rig that Fireline tied is used a lot more than people think all over the southeastern US. But it not used surf fishing, it is used in carp paylakes. Here is a link to a paylake carp site with picture of this rig, except using braid instead of mono. Tought you guys might find it interesting.
http://www.southernpaylaker.com/view_topic.php?id=6202&forum_id=33


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## BubbaHoTep (May 26, 2008)

I got some good ideas during the course of this thread. I do not understand all the drama.

AJ


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

And as Cdog said "there is no need for any name calling" and as P&S policies go there will be no name calling and no need to get personal.

This may be the greatest thing since sliced bread or booze in corked bottles but I am sure even the guys that came up with those ideas caught some grief.


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## Fireline20 (Oct 2, 2007)

Shooter said:


> And as Cdog said "there is no need for any name calling" and as P&S policies go there will be no name calling and no need to get personal.
> 
> This may be the greatest thing since sliced bread or booze in corked bottles but I am sure even the guys that came up with those ideas caught some grief.


Sorry about talking about Nimrods,,,just a phrase my dad use to use for people who harp on something they never tried an perhaps don't understand

At any rate, I am still working on this knot. I am convinced the way I am attaching to the hook is good idea but I have eliminated the loops or at least the size of them.

Right now I am working on a lower poundage mono rig size (Ande 30 lb) but am incorporating quad lines and wrapping 3 of the lines with 1 to keep down the "grass catcher). Pretty much is it is like the cable they used to build the Golden Gate bridge, with multi-strands of wire, and wrapped with a single wire into a bundle. 

If you ever watched the History Channel on the building of that bridge, the over all strength of the bundle was stronger and more flexable than one single strand of the same strength cable.

I am an engineer by trade, so I always look for ways to improve things, not re-invent the wheel, just improve it>


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## obxflea (Dec 15, 2007)

Good luck!!!!! I dont quite understand why strength is such an issue. If you are using a 17-20# main line, whats the point in the effort of increasing strength in the leader? Its already 5-6 times stronger than your weakest link!


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## CarolinaNemo (Dec 11, 2008)

I am new to this board, and while I am definately not an expert surf fisherman, I am not completely new to the game. I enjoy and respect everyones posts, and hope to learn as much as possible. I also like seeing ideas that are somewhat different, whether I agree with them or not. I just hate seeing some of these discussions lead into disagreements and arguing. It can make a new member hesitant to take part in discussions. We are here as a fishing family/community, and most people enjoy helping others, whether it is with an idea on the board or first hand on the sand. Not trying to stick my nose where it doesn't belong, just giving you a new members perspective on some of these posts that get a little heated. :beer:


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## Mudd (Jan 10, 2004)

Cdog said:


> And speaking of new rigs I saw a variation of the standard drum rig and a canon ball rig combined during the striper tourney. The only way to know if something will work or not is to try it...


And using the results from the Striper Tourney, neither rig catches fish! 

Just kidding, I'm always expirmenting too, plus I'm stubborn and stuck in my ways, I never know what rig I'm going to use until I tie it all together on the beach.


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## whichway (Jun 6, 2007)

fire: if you did wrap the multi line ever think of trying to "whip finish" the lines such as you would on a fly?
just a quick thought.
ww


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