# Toyota and Audubon together? for $20 million



## 1obxnut (Mar 26, 2002)

Just got back from a week in OBX and was reading some of the other websites and came across thread with this link.

http://pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2008032587235


WTF!!


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## saltandsand (Nov 29, 2007)

VERY GOOD FIND!! This needs to be spread around. Here's the goose that's laying the golden egg to fund their legal fight. 

I always thought Nissan was better. Toyota sux.

Kinda makes sense....if their planning to open up assembly shops here in the US then gotta get rid of fishing as it takes too much time away from work. Better to have us sitting in a relaxed state starring at the horizon so that we can come back to work and bust butt after vacation rather than be worn out from constant fishing.


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## roadkillal (Feb 23, 2006)

I think it is time to Email Toyota and inform them of what is going on.

http://toyota.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/toyota.cfg/php/enduser/ask_intercept.php


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## Flipper (May 6, 2006)

Can someone enlighten me as to where you are going with this thread?


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## saltandsand (Nov 29, 2007)

Well it may be leading to something like this:

<a href="http://tinypic.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i27.tinypic.com/2rx7lhc.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>

Japan is a country of over 3,000 islands. Toyota may be looking to add a few more islands with the sun rising over the eastern sea!


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## saltandsand (Nov 29, 2007)

Does anyone have information as to whether Toyota is in anyway funding the plaintiff's action with the OBX access issue? Clearly they have funded Audubon, but need to look deeper.


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

I think Toyota was being sued by audobon, so they gave them money to shut them up.. I could be wrong..

http://detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080326/AUTO01/803260431/1148


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## lil red jeep (Aug 17, 2007)

saltandsand said:


> Does anyone have information as to whether Toyota is in anyway funding the plaintiff's action with the OBX access issue? Clearly they have funded Audubon, but need to look deeper.


Whether they are directly funding Audubon or not isn't the issue. They now have 20 mil at their disposal to use any way they want, and there are many who drive Toyota's on the beach. I think it's time for Toyota to stand up and for those of us opposed to closing the beaches to tell them what we think!


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## saltandsand (Nov 29, 2007)

CrawFish said:


> I think Toyota was being sued by audobon, so they gave them money to shut them up.. I could be wrong..
> 
> http://detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080326/AUTO01/803260431/1148


According to the article that's not the case. It says "The New York-based Audubon Society was not one of the groups criticizing Toyota."

I think they did it to save face with not supporting higher MPG standards.

Seems this OBX issue is more complex than it appears on its face. I'm thinking that anyone who is offended by Audubon may consider not purchasing products from any of the companies making contributions.

I suppose its time to start looking for Audubon's statement of charitable donors.


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## Flipper (May 6, 2006)

saltandsand said:


> Well it may be leading to something like this:
> 
> <a href="http://tinypic.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i27.tinypic.com/2rx7lhc.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>
> 
> Japan is a country of over 3,000 islands. Toyota may be looking to add a few more islands with the sun rising over the eastern sea!


That's comical.


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## saltandsand (Nov 29, 2007)

lil red jeep said:


> Whether they are directly funding Audubon or not isn't the issue. They now have 20 mil at their disposal to use any way they want, and there are many who drive Toyota's on the beach. I think it's time for Toyota to stand up and for those of us opposed to closing the beaches to tell them what we think!


Probably so but suppose its possible that the funds were given with a specific need. Heck I dunno but I agree about letting them know where we stand. I started looking and haven't found much yet.


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## saltandsand (Nov 29, 2007)

Flipper said:


> That's comical.


It was intended to be funny but it does have a pin hole sized view of reality... this thing is about land rights and grabbing real estate. If they can force enough business away from the OBX for 18 months or more then many of the local business will fold and then their fight gets even easier at the local level. These guys are playing to win.

Let's not loose sight of the comedy that Audubon is located in "New" England in the state of "New" York.


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## JeepMike (Feb 4, 2008)

Maybe we could torpedo some of those jap fishing ships that hang out just outside of international waters, off our coasts, net everything, and i mean EVERYTHING, then drag it back over to their country. It's crap, and I like Toyota trucks too! Won't be buying one anytime soon now.


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## roadkillal (Feb 23, 2006)

Here is my Email to Toyota:

Dear Toyota,

First of all you should be commended for donating such a large sum of money to protect the environment it is a very noble and worthy to support such efforts. However you should be aware that The National Audubon Society is filing an injunction against ORV traffic at Cape Hatteras National Seashore that will threaten beach access for visitors, sportsman and nature lovers and it will likely cause the financial ruination of many people who live there. 

The Audubon Society has declared war on people that practice conservation by these actions. It will deny access to these lands and keep future generations from learning about this wonderful place. 

Thank you for hearing me on this important matter.

Al Baird
Fort Mill, SC


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## fishinmama (Oct 14, 2006)

okay -- let's not sound like idiots discusssing this -- this topic has gotten significant repsonses on the RDT & fishmilitia forums..after all Audubon is one of the groups seeking the injunction on ORV access -- and with many folks driving Toyotas on the beach -- well, you can imagine the discontent...

basically, the thrust being that ppl were emailing or writing Toyota or dealerships expressing their discontent with this donation...most received lackluster responses from same (if any)...
other posters pointed out that major corp's make many donations to many of the same type orgs.(the 'green' groups are a favored group b/c of the media) & to boycott one would be foolish, cuz if you realized all the major corp's donation's (& acted on same), you might not have a vehicle to drive.

i don't know what the answer is -- i don't drive, nor have i ever owned a Toyota -- but if you feel so compelled, perhaps the best way to address this is to email (write) Toyota & express your discontent--just don't expect it to be well received.


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## roadkillal (Feb 23, 2006)

Sounding like an idiiot comes natural to me as you can tell by my posts. In general I tend to let companies, elected officials and my wife (when she is out of ear shot) know when I disagree on issue. Thus, being not well received comes natural to me. 

I think we need to challege every point as rational as possible in this matter. I do not think we should boycott anything at this point but we should state how we feel. 

I think there is chance that this injunction could be enforced. 

I also get tired of Sportsmen and Sportswomen always seen as being on the other side of environmentalists. Without a doubt sportsmen are the ones that are at the front of respecting and appreicating the enviornment. We are the ones out there practicing conservation.


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## fishinmama (Oct 14, 2006)

i wasn't calling you an idiot roadkill -- some of the flippant responses struck me as idiotic & un serving to the task at hand-- sorry if you read my post that way


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

I love my 06 TuRD...carries me :fishing: and totes my :beer:


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## roadkillal (Feb 23, 2006)

I know you didn't. I just felt I should get where I stand out there and I used the opportunity to state it. 

I am worried about this. This is a Federal Judge he doesn't answer to many people. 

I just got an email from one of the rental companies I use on Hatteras asking me to email my congressman asking them to help so they are worried too. Go Midgett Realty!!!!!


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## JeepMike (Feb 4, 2008)

I'm with you roadkillall, I get sick of people telling me I don't care about the environment because I enjoy fishing. We have a group of people right now on our @$$ about the, and I kid you not, "environmental impact of our horses on Cape Hatteras National Seashore". We have 10 horses that go to the beach through the woods and back and they want us shut down because of our IMPACT!!! The IMPACT of 10 horses. This is coming from the same people that love the _wild horses _ in Corolla. Anyone see the screw up here? I swear man, I think some people sit around and think chit up just to screw with others. 

If these enviro's don't get off my butt, i'm going to spend eveyr second of everyday figuring out a way to make their lives suck.

The environmental impact of a horse, give me a break. I know I would hate for my grandchildren to see the hoofprints left behind, that would be devastating.


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## saltandsand (Nov 29, 2007)

I don't think there's a thing wrong with trying to identify the money trail behind the OBX access issue and to vote with your dollars by not supporting them. Until the facts are in I'm not concluding that there are no vehicle manufacturers that are aligned with viewing respectful sportspeople as also being environmentalists. 

If you think my comedic comment was idiotic then that's okay with me. I think it gets to the point. I'm aware our opinions are similar in that this is about much more than the plover.

Point is that "we" need to unify or we might as well start packing it up. AI is their next target, let their be little doubt.


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## saltandsand (Nov 29, 2007)

JeepMike said:


> I'm with you roadkillall, I get sick of people telling me I don't care about the environment because I enjoy fishing. We have a group of people right now on our @$$ about the, and I kid you not, "environmental impact of our horses on Cape Hatteras National Seashore". We have 10 horses that go to the beach through the woods and back and they want us shut down because of our IMPACT!!! The IMPACT of 10 horses. This is coming from the same people that love the _wild horses _ in Corolla. Anyone see the screw up here? I swear man, I think some people sit around and think chit up just to screw with others.
> 
> If these enviro's don't get off my butt, i'm going to spend eveyr second of everyday figuring out a way to make their lives suck.
> 
> The environmental impact of a horse, give me a break. I know I would hate for my grandchildren to see the hoofprints left behind, that would be devastating.


Well put! I really think finding out who has money behind this is the first step. Then vote by not supporting them with business. The classic approach in a capitalistic society and ancient logic which is "do not strengthen thy enemy."


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## POMPINOLOVER (Jun 29, 2006)

I tell you what 20m is just a drop in the bucket for Audobon, they are fed by so many companies, its a tax write off for big companies, and most big companies dont make it publicly known and try to keep it under wraps, but I'll agree when a big company like toyota does it and flaunts it , we should attack and write back , but like I siad just a drop in that big bucket though unfortunetly


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## POMPINOLOVER (Jun 29, 2006)

oh Jeepmike here is gonna be the kicker , if the injunction goes through , it will ban your horses , but not any wild horses....I dont even know if there any wild horses left on the point area , but I remember 25 years ago, when we stayed in a avon motel , they had a couple wild horses there and we would feed em apples , they were some pretty horses , I know for sure there are still some in the duck area ...


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Funny how dow and co. feel wild horses to be native species on Corolla and should be protected,when foxes,minks,possums,*****, and Canada geese are not????..  Mike,believe me,they ARE out to make any fisherman's life miserable,your horses are just caladeral damage.........

Fishinmama,usually we agree,but on this one we'll have to agree not to......
Ford also donated yrs back to adubon,and recieved enough mail that they stopped.. If tax writeoffs are the issue,then ask them to contribute to OBPA.. No,they won't get green points just a tax writeoff,but they may get more 4whl drive folks to buy yotas... Writing them and suggesting this,may be futile,but what's the harm in doing so???


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## POMPINOLOVER (Jun 29, 2006)

thank you drum for backing me up on the wild horses thing, it is a shame , I guess since they dont eat birds or eggs , all of a sudden they have no problem with it , but as stated many times we know its not the birds or any animals in thier grand scheme of things, I think we fail to bring up the geese slaughter off pea island, although I think that my have been NPS thing , correct me if Im wrong drum


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## fishinmama (Oct 14, 2006)

Drumdum said:


> Fishinmama,usually we agree,but on this one we'll have to agree not to......
> Ford also donated yrs back to adubon,and recieved enough mail that they stopped.. If tax writeoffs are the issue,then ask them to contribute to OBPA.. No,they won't get green points just a tax writeoff,but they may get more 4whl drive folks to buy yotas... Writing them and suggesting this,may be futile,but what's the harm in doing so???


was not stating an opinion DD - just stating what was being done by others -- if i owned a Toyota, or was thinking of buying one, i, too would be writing a letter or two...or 3 ...or....


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## Brooksobx (Feb 10, 2008)

I E-mailed Toyota yesterday and got back a response from them whithin 10 min. Here it is: sponse (Ryo Fukuda) 04/01/2008 04:33 PM 
Dear Mr. Brooks:
Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.

We appreciate you taking the time to contact us and give us your feedback about Audubon donation.

Toyota is sensitive to the opinions of our customers, and we respect your position on this issue. We have documented your comments accordingly.

We want to assure you that your email has been documented at our National Headquarters and is available for management review. It is through correspondence such as yours that we become aware of the reactions and expectations of our customers, and we sincerely appreciate the time you have taken to bring this matter to our attention.

If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to contact us.

Sincerely,

Ryo Fukuda
Toyota Customer Experience


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## POMPINOLOVER (Jun 29, 2006)

Like I said we need to email the companies, that make it known, but like I said so many companies give and keep it on the down low and write it off, now im sure if we dug into said company we could find it , but we waste time doin that when we could be writing people , senators ,, governors , etc... and toyota since they made it public


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## dafishguy (Apr 13, 2006)

*Let them know what you think!!!*

We own 2 Toyotas and my Tundra is the best vehicle or truck I have ever had. 179,000 mi and countin. I sent them a polite e-mail letting know how much we love our vehicles and will be making another purchase soon as my daughter turns 16 in 20 days. I also explained how the Audubon and these other groupe are using mis-information and misleading stats to prevent ORV access to the OBX and the financially devastating consequences of losing ORV access to the local economy there. I finished that they should use their influence to help maintain access there or myself and many other ORV and vehicle users would have no good reason to purchase a Toyota. Speak with your dollars, that is what has the most influence!


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## 1obxnut (Mar 26, 2002)

Brooksobx said:


> I E-mailed Toyota yesterday and got back a response from them whithin 10 min.


Wow! 10mins. I'm still waiting on a response on my email..of course I let them have it about trying to charge me $275 each to replace the window seals/gasket on my '05 camry's doors that are pulling away, and tranny jerking at 30-40mph (had a lot of complaints on this issue).

I had also mentioned that I had seriously though about getting a sequoia to replace my 93'-burban, but will probably stick with chevy instead.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

My comment letter to Toyota....don't send emails, gets no response except generated ones: JODY

Mr. Hideaki Otaka 
President & CEO 
Toyota Motor North America, Inc 
9 West 57th Street 
Suite 4900 
New York, NY 10019-2701

Dear Mr. Otaka:

I have just learned of your contribution of $20M to a special interest group (Audubon) which is using “birds” as an weapon for us "Four Wheel Drive Vehicle Owners" to loose our beach access at Cape Hatteras National Recreational Seashore (CHNRS) located on Hatteras Island, NC & as an owner of a Toyota myself, I’m very disappointed in the fact that you have donated to a special interest group that may make your sales of 4-wheel drive vehicles decline should access to all beaches on the East coast be denied in the disguise of BIRDS (they are already in the process of getting papers together to start on the closing of Cape Lookout National Seashore down south of us, as of this writing). I realize that Corporations are trying to gain appeal as "GREEN" for sales purposes, but you are hurting the people that purchased your vehicles in the meantime, as most 4-wheel vehicles are used for beach access.
I suggest making matters correct in the eyes of your purchasers & future purchasers that you contribute to a non-profit organization that is trying to fight to keep our beaches open such as Outer Banks Preservations Association (obpa.org) which their mission statement is to "Preserve & Protect Not Prohibit" and could greatly use donations at this time to fight for the people’s rights for access. Right now we are in the middle of a lawsuit with Audubon/ Defenders of Wildlife/SELC, which will probably deny our beach access on CHNRS completely/or partially as of 4/4/08 in Raleigh, NC. Because of your donation, this helps them & other special interest groups fund more lawsuits around the country to do their biding in the name of the protection of birds.
Please be advised that there are many people aware of this contribution by your corporation thru the many fishing boards/forums on the internet with people coming from all areas of the country & walks of life who fish our beaches & I will post your reply, if any made for them to view regarding this subject.
If your corporation would like to find out exactly what Audubon is doing to our Island’s economy, people’s heritage & way of life, it can be viewed on the link below which I strongly suggest you view:

http://islandfreepress.org/

It’s my feeling that it’s a sad day for every one of us that live in the United States who vote, that special interest groups are really the ones running our government with their monies & views, not the elected officials that we put into office by our vote which is why this country’s gas prices are going so high right now. Please consider the little people who need your help, more then groups that get donations from all the gullible people unaware of their tactics they use in the disguise of helping/protecting the animals. 

Thank you for your time & consideration on this matter.

Sincerely,
Ken & Jody Wilson
PO Box 359
Frisco, NC 27936


CC: John Couch/President OBPA


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

_...which is using “birds” as an weapon for us "Four Wheel Drive Vehicle Owners" to loose our beach access at Cape Hatteras National Recreational Seashore (CHNRS) located on Hatteras Island..._

I never realized the issue was birds. I thought this problem was caused by the Park Service taking 35 years to come up with an ORV plan and never making one.

Birds. Go figure...


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## saltandsand (Nov 29, 2007)

Surf Fish said:


> _...which is using “birds” as an weapon for us "Four Wheel Drive Vehicle Owners" to loose our beach access at Cape Hatteras National Recreational Seashore (CHNRS) located on Hatteras Island..._
> 
> I never realized the issue was birds. I thought this problem was caused by the Park Service taking 35 years to come up with an ORV plan and never making one.
> 
> Birds. Go figure...


Sarcasm...suppose it begets sarcasm. Birds poop on the land. Those who speak best for those birds soon own it. Fish don't walk upon the land but clogging fisherpeople do. LAND GRAB!!! 

What the heck does Toyota care, they are from Japan which is a nation that has broken many an international treaty where marine environment management is concerned.

This problem is in fact created by the lack of a final ORV plan being issued through full process. This matter has been extorted by environmentalists. The plover is a threatened species, not an endangered species. Biologists can argue finer points of fact for judges to decide. 

One judge will make a desicion tomorrow. He is a Federal judge and is removed from much of the political impact of such decision. Fact is that there is an anti-environmental movement that is supporting the Federal judiciary (yeah I'm sure that fact will surprise many.) 

Because the bench is anti-environmental the decision will weigh heavily on property use. Currently they view us, as surf fisherpeople, as lower level land use and so they want to raise the level of commercialized use of the area. They are all about money, totally devoid of values. The only values that count are land values and tax revenues that are at stake at the local level. See how the environmental aspect changes sides on the political scene?

I'm not saying that a more pro-environmental movement within politics would change the issue. I am saying that a pro-environment movement would be in total support of ensuring common values, common use of a national resource. Of seeing fit to allow access balanced against commerical use even if limited.

Bottom line on the analysis is that anti-environmentalist stand for maximum commercial use. Unless you are Donald Trump you aren't going to be using the area. Take a look at York, Jersey, Delware and Maryland as examples. I pray that AI can remain open (but then what's that worth after Anne Arundle and other counties in Maryland continue to grant variance after variance for so-called land improvement at the expense of KILLING the Bay.)


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## saltandsand (Nov 29, 2007)

Drumdum said:


> My comment letter to Toyota....don't send emails, gets no response except generated ones: JODY
> 
> Mr. Hideaki Otaka
> President & CEO
> ...



IMHO...FANTASTIC LETTER!!!!!!!!!! Only enhancement would be to acknowledge that "reasonable" provision should be made for a threatened species, that being the BIRD (no pun intended.)


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

saltandsand said:


> Sarcasm...suppose it begets sarcasm. Birds poop on the land. Those who speak best for those birds soon own it. Fish don't walk upon the land but clogging fisherpeople do. LAND GRAB!!!
> 
> What the heck does Toyota care, they are from Japan which is a nation that has broken many an international treaty where marine environment management is concerned.
> 
> ...


 The thing that is REALLY in doubt about your post would be the fact that DOW and audobon were in a good faith negotiation ie reg-neg,in regaurd to said "orv plan"... Well these groups decided that plovers and other shorebirds were in "iminate danger" as per "interim plan".. All this was done "per thier science",OBPA,NPS, and USFWL all have data that varies from thiers.. The interim plan was to be in effect as proceedings of the reg-neg process was to form a new plan.. There have been two other plans made by the park service in the past that were misteriously not formalized.. All that being said,they filed an injunction,with no regaurd of the "reg-neg" process with the risk of being "booted out" of the process.. Thier "risk" is actually a no risk,as they seem invundrable to any actions by any government agencys,including USFWL and NPS.. Givin thier sucess in other court cases involving law suites against nps and even the dept of interior,bringing up this injuction was a "no loose" proposition...

As Jody said in her letter,it is all under the "desguise" of wildlife... Make no mistake,if this takes place with no apeal offered,no "devolopment group" will benifit.. The economy of Hatteras Island will be starved,and all access to the island lost,because they are also blocking the much needed building of the Oregon Inlet bridge.. All that being said,I don't see where "developement" will benifit...... These groups will just have made another wildlife sanctuary of a National Park...

Flea,if you want to delete or lock this thread feel free to do so.. I'm sorry,but my thoughts on this issue may offend some,but that's the way I see it,bad spelling and all...


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## saltandsand (Nov 29, 2007)

We're down to the last inning with the Fish vs. Bird, the score is even up and the birds make a secret manuveur...snatching the Fish's star player and taking him outta the game, we've got the action here on our eye in the sky webcam...

<a href="http://tinypic.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i11.tinypic.com/4qeotir.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>

We'll soon know where the injunction ends up...let's start a chant to usher in all the good kharma we can get.


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

Saltandsand, please don't make a joke out of this issue. It's import to me and many other here. And we are on the short end of the stick. If you have read as much about this stuffs as many other here, then you know that we have little chance in winning this. So research this matter before making comments.


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## saltandsand (Nov 29, 2007)

CrawFish said:


> Saltandsand, please don't make a joke out of this issue. It's import to me and many other here. And we are on the short end of the stick. If you have read as much about this stuffs as many other here, then you know that we have little chance in winning this. So research this matter before making comments.



I'm not making a joke, I don't think the issue is a joke, I've spent considerable time with the issue as well, having taken action on it. I think you are correct about the chances of winning. And, sorry if my choice to lighten up a little is taken the wrong way...I'll get it back into the serious mode. BTW: Hadn't noticed your comment to the recent thread about the request being for total closure. I'm hearing that was a mis-statement by the presenter of the video but I'd sure like to know for certain. Thanks.


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## Flipper (May 6, 2006)

saltandsand said:


> BTW: Hadn't noticed your comment to the recent thread about the request being for total closure. I'm hearing that was a mis-statement by the presenter of the video but I'd sure like to know for certain. Thanks.


The only "mis-statement" was that the prelim injunction also applies to pedestrians. Everything else I heard was correct.


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## saltandsand (Nov 29, 2007)

Flipper said:


> The only "mis-statement" was that the prelim injunction also applies to pedestrians. Everything else I heard was correct.



Yes, we agree. I think we also agreed that eliminating foot traffic is part of the Complaint in Chief.


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## Flipper (May 6, 2006)

saltandsand said:


> I think we also agreed that eliminating foot traffic is part of the Complaint in Chief.


Not exactly. It's not specifically sought in the Prayer For Relief, but it could ultimately be sought by the plaintiff.


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

!!! hey! hes only about a 15 min drive from me.
maybe i should go bust down his door and talk to him yakuza style.

but honestly. dont email, you guys and girls.
need to write actual letters. ya know.. those long forgetten white paper thingys that we get our bills in the mail on?

ya. email doesnt really do much good.
with regular mail. you 
1. piss off the company your mailing too, making their office full of envelopes.

2. piss off the mailman that needs to chug that poop, so he would prob talk to that company too.

ya..


you guys should also read up about here in NYC..
they wanna charge us toll fees just for entering Manhattan... 8$..



Drumdum said:


> My comment letter to Toyota....don't send emails, gets no response except generated ones: JODY
> 
> Mr. Hideaki Otaka
> President & CEO
> ...


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