# Closing the Lynnhaven Inlet



## Dyhard (Oct 24, 2002)

*Closeing the Lynnhaven Inlet*

Dear recreational fisherman,

In February of this year, the Virginia Beach City Council adopted a new ordinance regarding fishing in the Lynnhaven basin. The new law defines the turning basin area and specifically prohibits fishing and/or anchoring anywhere, anytime in the defined area.
In addition, the Virginia Beach Marine Patrol has decided to fully enforce an existing ordinance that prohibits fishing in marked channels. As a result of the new law and stepped up enforcement of existing laws, the police have been warning anglers that no fishing is allowed in the basin or in THE ENTIRE LONG CREEK CHANNEL from the basin to broad bay. 
The police and the City Attorney’s office are well intentioned and trying to make boating in these areas safe but, as you can imagine, anglers are upset at being booted from historical recreational fishing areas. With the fall run of citation spot due in this area in 6 to 8 weeks, more and more anglers will be affected. At a Bay Island civic league meeting recently, this subject was discussed. I offered to set up a more inclusive forum for the recreational fishing community to hear first hand from the Marine Police exactly what the laws are and how they intend to enforce them, as well as give anglers a chance to let the city know how they feel about the changes. Jim Woods the Lynnhaven borough councilman has agreed to attend, the city attorney agreed to send someone as did the Marine Police. Another City councilman, Peter Schmidt has agreed to attend schedule permitting. The meeting will be upstairs in the Yacht Club at Marina Shores on Tuesday evening July 15 at 7 PM. It should last until about 9 PM. It is open to the public and hopefully all the area angling clubs will be represented. 
Remember, the primary purpose of this meeting is to hear from the police exactly what the new law means and how they will be interpreting and enforcing the laws. Please don’t give the police a hard time. They are concerned with public safety and giving up their time off to be there to explain things to us. The second purpose of the meeting is to let city officials know how you feel about the new law and new enforcement of old laws. It is my hope that out of this calm and civil meeting, there will eventually be some form of relief from the new restrictions even if it is partial. Somewhere between fishing where ever and when ever we want and never fishing in these areas at all should be a compromise that will protect the channels during the busy times yet allow us to fish when it isn't so crowded. We would also like assurance that the city will not adopt similar restrictions in the future without input from the recreational fishing community.
We look forward to your attendance and participation.
Sincerely, 

Richard Welton
Executive Director
Coastal Conservation Aassociation Virginia



COASTAL CONSERVATION ASSOCIATION VIRGINIA
2100 Marina Shores Drive, Suite 108,Virginia Beach, VA 23451
(757) 481-1226, Fax (757) 481-6910, e-mail [email protected]


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## hic-lock (Jun 27, 2001)

Thanks for putting up this post Dyhard.

My mother lives on Bay Island and attended the civic meeting and told me about this. I understand that they will try to map the restricted area out for all to see on paper for a little better understanding where the restictions are.

Thanks again for putting this up. Mark your calanders boys and girls.

See ya there
FISH ON


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## rlott (Oct 19, 2002)

I believe this applies to boats only. 

Rich


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## Fish N Fool (Jan 5, 2003)

i agree rlott
i do believe thats regarding boats


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## TopSnipe (Apr 24, 2002)

Maybe it only applies to the boaters now, but, after they stick it to them, they'll stick it to us.

We somtimes get angry at the boater that cuts our lines, especially with so much water out ther and so little fishable shoreline here, still, we need to close ranks as anglers to protect our interests. Dosen't much matter whether you fish from boat or shore, we've got to protect our ability to fish.

Just my $.02


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

*Unless I'm mistaken*

this is th same area that has gotten all th "bad press" in regards to shore vs boat fishermen. If we rally togther an get them to let th boats fish there an th stupidity arises again, who do you think they will stop from fishing that area? Yep th shorebound ones. An I don't think th boaters would be willing to "join" us. 

JMHO.


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## TopSnipe (Apr 24, 2002)

You may be right Cdog. 

Still, there are a number of idiots within our ranks who will toss lead at a boat in the channel. The boats have every right in the world to transit the channel. As shorebound anglers we've got to be aware of the boaters and how they have to maneuver. I'm fully aware of the discourteous boaters that come within yards of a pier or the shore, not in a marked channel, and cause all kinds of havoc for us. We've just got to keep our cool in those situations.

Hell, I've seen it numerous times, some boater trolling along within 50 feet of a pier of shore, dragging along the lines of everyone fishing from shore.

Ignorance can be corrected, there's no fix for stupidity.

I still think we can work together to protect the fishing for boaters and the shorebound.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

*Good point Topsnipe*

th more I thought about my post th more I realized that having a "us vs them" attitude is too negative. With available fishing spots disappearing left an right "we" as rec fishers need to try an keep what we have. And I totally agree about th stupidity on both sides of th fence,boaters an shore anglers.


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## Rob Holtz (Jul 29, 2000)

This info really only involves boaters and thats why I didn't post it here as on the other board. Thinking back that was probably a mistake as we're all fishermen and need to help each other out. Please come to the meeting if you can and let the officals know how stupid this whole matter is. If it comes down to the shore fishing being shut out in the future I can assure you that this boat fisherman will be there to say no, right alongside you guys.


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## Dyhard (Oct 24, 2002)

My greatest fear is that "They" will make ordinaces that will allow unreasonable and illogical enforcement possible. When some unelected knuckle dragging beurocrat can wield that kind of power we are all in trouble.
United We Stand, Divided We Fall


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

*Guess I'll make some enemies now...*

I think that putting a ramp into Crab Creek is hands-down the worst decision the city ever made.

It has kept the boaters from being able to fish areas they were used to, and it has caused the shorebound crew to lose major fishing areas as well.

The pumping of the inlet has totally changed the bars outside the inlet that I have waded since I was a kid.

The once free parking lot now charges four bucks just for the privilege of parking.

The channel out of Crab Creek is now so deep that you can't wade onto the islands on the backside of the inlet.

There was Bubba's, there were public ramps like the Narrows, there were other places to launch. Bad, bad, bad idea from the very beginning. And now we are all paying for a stupid decision.

I wish they'd dynamite the damn thing and let the dunes take it all over like it used to be, but I suppose that "progress" marches on and we must find a way to deal. In the end, the slight convenience of another launch ramp will ruin the place for us all.


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## skunked (Jun 4, 2001)

okay, so what do we do?


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## skunked (Jun 4, 2001)

And, what does it take to really get influence with the people who are supposed to have our intrests in mind? Just money? Or do the boat guys just have less BO than we do?


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Do you think there's any way the boaters <I>and</I> the shorebound folks would be willing to pull a boycott? Maybe we could work out a joint deal that would send a financial message to the city of Va. Beach, which is the only thing they will understand.

Anybody out there willing to become an advocate of us pier and surf folks in the Va. CCA?


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## Dyhard (Oct 24, 2002)

There might be another way to look at it. It's possible that more and more people want to fish and be on the water. Can you blame them for discovering the pleasures that we've known for so long? It's possible that we may need large numbers of water loving people to keep access open. There are pressures to close down the the Outer Banks to vehicular traffic and unless there are many voices heard it will happen, just as sandbridge was closed in 1974. Of all the proposals that were studied, Crab Creek was the most affordable of the sites. If you'd like to see all of the area to the south and southwest made into a preserved fishing area please contact V.B. city council or tourism director. It's just a matter of how much Mr. MCluskey will accept for this area and how high the city is willing to go. It's under consideration now.
Listen to Capt. Reese 850 am radio Saturday mornings 6am to 8am there will be plenty talk there.
Thanking you in advance for your help


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## TopSnipe (Apr 24, 2002)

What P&S members also belong to the CCA?


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## Dyhard (Oct 24, 2002)

An interesting piece of history about the channel leading out of Lynnhaven. Sand moves from West to East in this area and the rushing water tries to wash through the forming bars. The channel once migrated so far east that it was almost to the pier. The dredging before last took the channel West of the old weck however the last time it was dredged they decided to go East of it. It's out about the second red marker. On a clear water day and your poleroid glasses you can see from the top of the bridge just how much the channel has moved east in reference to the markers.


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## hic-lock (Jun 27, 2001)

Want to bump this to the top......

The Crab Creek Ramp and facilities doesn’t seem to be the problem. IMHO the CC entrance channel AND the irresponsible anglers combined (both shore and boat) brought this to the Cities attention. The channel could have been routed straight out (or East) from that daymarker furthest south. That would have shortened the channel, allowed access to deep water and eliminated the channel that parallels the shoreline where all the trouble comes from. Don’t forget how this started…… A sand flea and a boater and a ruckus at the ramp. I think we all heard that story, if I have it wrong please correct me.

The City took it upon themselves to fix the problem and did it on the sly as far as I’m concerned. I didn’t hear of any meetings or any statements from the City personnel about this issue until it was passed. It is scary Dyhard, that some beurocrat(s) invoke that power. What’s next, no shore fishing around the same “Turn basin area”? It wouldn’t surprise me at this point!

There has to be a gathering of the folks that use this area and the fishery to make a statement! That’s what we do……. SHOW OUR FACES AND SPEAK UP! All the points that the USERS of this area have are important, and it will make a difference if there is a large showing at this meeting.

Show up ……. and FISH ON


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## skunked (Jun 4, 2001)

I have fished under the lesner bridge a couple of times and driven over it many. Which channel and which turning basin are we talking about. I haven't fished there enough to know whats where. But I still would like the city to not close it down.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

hic-lock, the problem is that the natural channel outside Crab Creek runs right next to the shore. Just outside that is a very shallow flat that would constantly sand in if they tried to dredge it. Unfortunately, the channel they picked is about the only option they had.

I would encourage all of you to show up at this meeting, though. Make your opinions known. Even though we sometimes get in scraps with the boaters, this is a time for solidarity. I'd be there if I wasn't 250 miles away.


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## fishnkid (Sep 30, 2001)

yea i was there when it happened. That entire first week of it. A boater was trolling the channel as though it was the ocean. I swear to god he was trolling lesner,some even thought wire lining. There was a large school of nice fish hanging out right in the channel and you really needed to wing it out there to get them. Well the boat noticed the fish to and they continuously fished it. A few people get there lines snapped by "wire"and the shore bound anglers get mad and yell some stuff at the boaters. The boaters yell back and then yell I got a nice one on to piss of the shore anglers in showing them that they got the pod of fish. A few surf anglers then go HIT THEM WITH THE LEAD and there it goes a few middle age guys slinging there lead. Nothing was resolved. It will probably happen again this year to. And sand flea IS right,this would not of happened if they didnt build the ramp. There would be 1/4 of the people at that side as there are now. And not 9000 boats going in front of you when fishing that side. All i have to say is go with the flow. Things will work out eventually. They will realize they made a idiotic desicion and will change it but untill then i would just boycott that side. Go to the cbbt or find a few holes. Even if the fishing was good there, I am sure it wouldnt make up for the dicks who fish there.


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## Surf and Turf (Oct 1, 2002)

Hey guys, you forget, it's the Maritime law not the cities. It is illegal to block a channel....period. We have had this discussion before. The boaters did not lose, they never had a foot to stand on. There are commercial fishing boats and the pilot boats going in and out of that channel every day. The channel, because of the wicked currents is difficult enough to navigate with a smaller boat much less with a fourty footer and the wind.

A good fight is one thing, but this one is not the one. There are many reasons for doing what they are doing and safety for all is the main one here...pure and simple. However attending the hearing is still a good idea..if you are wearing your P&S stuff that is!


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## rlott (Oct 19, 2002)

Highly recommend, if you're really interested in this issue, going to:

http://www.tidalfish.com/

There is an excellent post on the "Virginia Angler" board called "Lynnhaven Inlet Fishermen Must Read This." The posters quote all of the laws/ordinances governing boaters and shore activities for Lynnhaven and tributaries.

Rich


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## Don Burke (Feb 28, 2003)

http://www.tidalfish.com/boards2/viewthread.asp?page=1&pagesize=30&forum=AMB_AP934078799&id=74104


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

Surf and Turf. 

It is one thing to block the channel by anchoring up and entirely another to drift the channel while fishing. Especially if you have your motor runing and out of gear. Now add to that the fact that there is a clearly marked channel under the bridge and the current regulation will not allow you to fish on the inside of the bridge at any of the other openings. 

Oh and if you take what you are saying one step forward you can not fish anywhere inside of Rudee because it is all considered a channel. Oh now add to that the deep water at the mouth of the bay and the shipping channels inside of the bay. Do not get me wrong if a ship restricted by draft comes through you are obgilated to get the heck out of the way, tangled lines or not.

Tom


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## Surf and Turf (Oct 1, 2002)

Tom, although I may agree with what you are saying, there is no provision in the law which states powered or unpowered, anchored or drifting. 

I think most reasonable people can distinguish between a 30 foot wide channel and a 3 mile wide channel.

There is plenty of water out there for boats. We're fighting for every inch of shore to fish. Usually you spend an hour just trying to find a place to park (except 3 AM, of course).


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## butch (Jun 9, 2002)

There is a bit about this in todays Virginia Pilot in the sports section.


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## Richmond Medic (May 28, 2002)

THIS IS WHAT WE SAID WOULD HAPPEN LAST YEAR WHEN PEOPLE WERE ACTING LIKE [email protected]#H*&@S AND DOIN STUPID THINGS. The city finally had enough and put their foot down. If we keep up acting irresponsible out there we will be next to get the boot. Please dont rouin it for all of us.(you know who you are)..
  :


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## Dyhard (Oct 24, 2002)

In my opinion we are lucky to have well respected gentlemen like Mr. Ray Richardson and others to stand up to tyranny.


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## hic-lock (Jun 27, 2001)

*It's tonight guys and girls*

Bump......



> The meeting will be upstairs in the Yacht Club at Marina Shores on Tuesday evening July 15 at 7 PM. It should last until about 9 PM. It is open to the public and hopefully all the area angling clubs will be represented.


Lets show some heads 

See ya there,

Mark Lister
Civil Eng. Tech.
Waterway Surveys and Eng. Ltd.
Virginia Beach, Va.


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## Mummichog (May 19, 2003)

Just wanted to bring this back to the top in light of recent events.

Can someone report on what happened at the 7.15 meeting at Marina Shores?


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## hic-lock (Jun 27, 2001)

I’ve been hesitant to post this because I don’t type fast enough. I’ll make it short.

The coordinator of the meeting was a fellow from the CCA (don’t know his name, sorry). There were Marine Patrol officers there along with City attorney reps. Bob Hutchenson, Capt. Reese and other user group reps were there also with @50 others.

The new code (the one that restricts fishing in the turn basin) was an amendment to the 1990 code 6-112-2-a. it restricts fishing, swimming crabbing etc. in the designated turn basin only. The northern line is the bridge, the southern line is a line between red daymarkers, the eastern and western lines are from the bridge ends to the said southern daymarkers. The Marine Patrol folks did most of the talking because we wanted to know what the restricted area was and how it was going to be enforced; therefore most of my notes are from them. The city folks just blew smoke, what’s new right. Anyway, the reasons given for the new restriction, by the MP, were 1. Boat Traffic (evidently it’s up per Crab Creek and has become dangerous) 2. They need to establish “a safe boating environment” 3. Pilot boat complaints. They were asked for evidence to prove there really is a problem, they have none. They have no data because no data is being recorded (Gee how convenient). Just a quote from one of the MP boat capt “(this is) a common sence code”. There ya go, protect ourselves from ourselves.

The approach channel into Lynnhaven (on the bay side) is fishable but not in the channel. Long Creek is fishable but not in the channel. The turn basin is the only restricted area by the city.

The MP made it clear that “if you impede or obstruct another vessel, you will be sighted.” The problem is they couldn’t even define what the channel was there in Long Creek. Another quote “some officers think the channel is from mean low water to mean low water.” GREAT, one might sight us but the other will not? The fact that the traffic isn’t always bad in Long Creek or the turn basin was brought up too. The same sorry response, one MP Officer might let you slide and another wouldn’t. The short and narrow is they will use their judgment. Folks didn’t seem too concerned about a non-fishable turn basin, but were more concerned about the Creeks. Common sense ruled with the public, they all seemed aware of maritime law and wouldn’t want to fish in a crowded and/or dangerous area anyway during a busy day. The problem comes when its off limits 24/7.

There was some talk about widening the marked channel at the bridge to include one set of piles over to the east.

It just blows me away! Fishing and/or anchoring in the channel, blocking other vessels and so on has always been illegal, so whats this new code to restrict the” turn basin” really about? TO FINALLY RESTRICT THE WHOLE AERA?

I don’t know about you guys, but I’ll throw a ditch boat in, in a heart beat! And bet your arse I’ll be at the rest of the meetings from here on out to support the users and keep it open.

I’m going fishing………….
FISH HARD
Mark L.


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