# The big 3 trash fish...



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Safety First.. Long post with REASON,for newbees and regulars.. 
Since I ain't catchin what I should be right now,figured I'd throw in some tips about catchin what "you don't really wanna catch" 
Skates: There are several ways to handle a skate,add more if you like..
Most folks grab the clear nose between the indexfinger and thumb and unhook. I've always done it this way I put my thumb on the underside of the clear nose well away from the mouth,then the sockets where thier nostils are positioned are soft I take my index finger and middle finger and use this as a "handle".. Works great,you can unhook the skate without having to lay him down on the planks or sand,and can keep fingers on the unhooking hand from gettin "nabbed" by the skates protruding mouth,or the prikely spines on his back and tail..
Smooth dogfish: these are probably the safer of the three I'm speaking of here. Only thing ya got to worry about is the larger ones are so strong they can wrap ya up like an anaconda.. I grab them by the back of the head and hang on for dear life while unhookin the rascals,but sometimes they are so strong they can wiggle thier way loose,then I'll lay em on the ground and unhook..
Spineys or Horndogs: these guys really do pose a problem for an angler that has never seen or handled one! They have barbs that are very infectious on thier dorsal and tail. I have always grabed simular to the smooth and held them away from my body and arms and unhooked.. I have learned that laying them down,placing your foot about where the peck fin is,holding the shark into position,unhooking,and grabing the end of the tail,holding the fish head down, is a better choice.. When you put your foot into that position it makes it difficult for him to get you with either spine..

REASON! : This week I have seen anglers,both novice and acomplished,get bit and spined repeatedly! I saw one man who has been fishing down there for close to 20 yr now get a horndog spine jabbed into his arm,looked as though it hit and artery. I have heard at least three grown men and one boy screaming like a baby,cause a skate protuded his lips and bit the devil out of them!! Some drew blood as well..
If any of you out there have some more or better tips,lettem fly! These are critters that have as much right as anything else to be in the ocean.. There is no need in killing them just so "we" the "intruders" are safe from thier natural defenses,IMHO..


__________________
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## Axon (Sep 8, 2002)

> These are critters that have as much right as anything else to be in the ocean.. There is no need in killing them just so "we" the "intruders" are safe from thier natural defenses,IMHO..


You couldn't of said it better


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## 1mocast (Jul 11, 2003)

*safest way*

You can all use the ol' 1mo method----cut the line....lol

just get as close to the hook as possible or as close as you wanna get to touching anything that looks like an abomination and clip,clip....This method works great for oyster toads too.

On a serious note.. I've always believed in never killing anything you're not gonna eat.


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## jedi_angler (Jul 5, 2003)

Drumdum - If there's any way you could put together some pictures of the methods you describe in your post - even if they're with decoy fish - that might be helpful.

Also, what's wrong with letting the skate lay in the sand (it seems like you're recommending against that); last time I caught one I let him lay at the edge of the water and held a net over him while removing the hook (which was extremely difficult in that rubbery skin). Funny (or maybe not) I didn't know anything about protruding jaws and fortunately he didn't try using them on me! Talk about scream; an Aliens stunt like that would've been the end of me.

Thanks for your good advice.


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## gotcha6/0 (Jul 13, 2003)

I aint ever been bitin by any of the fish you named except a skate and i will give all of yall this bit of advice.... STAY CLEAR OF A SKATES MOUTH!!! if ya aint payn attention they can and will throw there mouth out at'cha and it hurts soooo bad.you have all been warned ... "BEWARE OF THE MAN EATING SKATES!!!" thats what all of my friends say when they make fun of my skate attack


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## FishRung (Nov 26, 2002)

Can we extend that to not cutting tails off of skate or stingrays - to "prevent them hurting someone"? Help educate those less fortunate than ourselves by pointing out the error of their ways.

And to those that leave their catch to expire on the boards or sand, and then don't take then for food - a pox on them. Sorry, got carried away. Those fish deserve to live too.

Happy holidays.


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## gotcha6/0 (Jul 13, 2003)

when you cut the tail off of a ray it doesnt mean that "its not gonna hurt anyone" because we cut the tail off a we bit before the stinger so that they still have a defense. I dont know if it does anything to the ray as far as side effects or anything but ive caught plenty of rays without there tail and they all looked fine. just my .02 cents.


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## 1mocast (Jul 11, 2003)

*no tails*

I've read somewere that female skates and rays do not have tails am I wrong? Somebody straighen me out.

The skates you've caught with no tails were probably female


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

> I've read somewere that female skates and rays do not have tails am I wrong? Somebody straighen me out


1Mo, I believe all skates have tails. Some types of rays have smaller tails.






> when you cut the tail off of a ray it doesnt mean that "its not gonna hurt anyone" because we cut the tail off a we bit before the stinger so that they still have a defense.


Bassboy15, not to seem rude, but why would you cut th tail off?


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## 1mocast (Jul 11, 2003)

*I stand corrected*

Thanks Cdog, But are you trying to tell me that all those skates I've pulled in with no tails have been mutilated?

I too must ask why--why would anyone cause intentional harm to a creature that is only trying to survive. We as sportsmen only visit the skates home turf for our relaxation. He has to live and die by sea..... Use the 1mo method.....cut the line


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## gotcha6/0 (Jul 13, 2003)

Like i said once I have seen no harm in doing this to the animal but its just kinda cool because of most of the rays that are caught most people cut the tail off one so that if its caught again you know that he had already been caught by some one else. its kinda like a much cheaper version of tagging and if you catch a "fresh" ray it was pretty rare and i will always remember one day that we were fishin at harrisons and one of the guys caught a ray that when we decked got blood on him after he cut the tail off and we had gaffed it through the wing "keep in mind these rays are extremly durable" so after we cut the tail we got him back in the water and he swam away and we didnt see him anymore. Then a few hours later the SAME exact ray was caught by someone else and it was just kinda cool to see that he was still swimmin around the same place where we had supposedly caused such extreme pain to this fish and he was still live and flappin when we caught him the second time. Us harrisons boys have done this for a long time and i know that sometime this year we caught more then a few rays that we had caught a year or 2 back and they were still fine so like i said ive found that it does nothing to the survival of the fish it might feel a little awkward at first. And like i said before these fish are extremly tough. and anybody who thinks that this is mean and hurts the fish how do you think all of those croaker feel while there layin in that freezin cold dark cooler of yours??  j/k oh and i dont cut the tails of skates aint no reason for that and we only cut the tails on the big rays like the 30+ lbs'ers


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## 1mocast (Jul 11, 2003)

*different opinions are good*

The main point of the discussion for me is that we eat the croakers which is totally different, If you're not going to eat it let it go.

I'm quite sure you could survive without your pinky finger but I don't think you would want anyone chopping it off for their amusment. And if your hungry before they chop off your little finger you will still be hungry after it's gone.

Just my .02


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## gotcha6/0 (Jul 13, 2003)

I agree with you fully but the way i see it is one that there arent that many natural predators that feed off rays so even if they do die which is rare,you know what there carcass is gonna be food for more skates and rays ya know if ya think about it ,it all comes back around. So actually i eat it beacuse other things eat it. Plus i stand by what i said before and like you said it doesnt kill it to cut off the tail and i dont cut the tail from everyone that i catch actually when i think about it i think ive only cut like 2 or 3 out of i dont have a clue on how many ive caught plus goin back to the croakers kinda say your striper fishing with eels ok so they are hooked stay in the water all day where they are suppossed to be and then you pack up to go and where do your eels go??? back into the water with a hole through there tail or head same way with minnows and things like that.:jawdrop: poor poor minows!!! "joke"


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## can't fish today (Oct 8, 2003)

I can't go along with cutting off the tail. The creature is traumatized enough by being caught anyway. I think it's an important concept to leave nature the way you found it. 

Fred.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

1Mo,can't speak to what you have caught but all th skates I have caught had tails. Th males have "claspers" underneath their tail. I may be wrong but its true with sharks so I figgure its th same with skates.

Is this what you have been catching? Skate


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## gotcha6/0 (Jul 13, 2003)

Yea Cdog ive caught skates with "claspers" or atleast thats what i always figured they were i think your right with that but i dont know either. and no i dont cut them off


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## HighCap56 (Oct 21, 2003)

*Got a photo of a Horndog?*

Never have seen one!

Don't forget about our friend the Stargazer.

They have a nasty top fin and that organ that can give you a shock.

Bob


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## PlankCaster (Oct 22, 2001)

bassboy,
You may be right about this not killing the skate but you are wrong about them not having natural predators. I know there are various types of sharks that will eat a ray, or anything else they can get in their mouth. The fact that you say you "only" do this on rays of over 30 pounds does not make it any better. Even if you dont care as to the welfare of the animal, at least think of the way that looks for our sport. Thats the type of thing the PETA type people love to latch on to. As for calling it a cheap tagging method, thats crap. Tagging does no harm to the animal. If you want to see if you caught the same ray, buy some tags please. Not trying to ruffle any feathers but thats just a bit much for me to stomach without offering my two cents.
Tight lines and popped riggers


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

*Re: Got a photo of a Horndog?*



HighCap56 said:


> *Never have seen one!
> 
> Don't forget about our friend the Stargazer.
> 
> ...


 I'll see what I can do to get photos of horndogs,skates,and smooth doggies,shouldn't be a problem,there's sure more of them than drummies and stripers this yr... 
  
Jedi-Angler,I'll try to get a pic of unhooking all of the above if I can.. Not trying to say puting skates on the ground or planks to unhook is a bad idea,just that using the "handle method", described above,will open his mouth for a second or two,giving you the oportunity to get the hook out before those "seamonsterlips"jump out there and grab your finger...   
On another board,a friend of mine came up with this idea,bend the barb on your circle hook when catching and releasing drum(you'll catch plenty of skates in the process) Makes everything easier to unhook,and with it being a circle,the bend of the hook alone will keep them "buttoned up"....

I'm with Plank Caster,no need in mutilating *any* of these critters,they all have a place in the order! And probably doesn't hurt without a tail,but,I'm sure it was put there for a purpose in the sceme of things.. 
And Cdog is right there are rays with some very short tails that are "standard equipment"..


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## murphman (Sep 4, 2003)

*Leather Skates*

I was out at the Cape Henlopen pier in DE this weekend and saw four skates that were dried up like leather and left to die, my son asked why people would do something like that, I told him that some people are ignorant and just have no respect for nature


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## 1mocast (Jul 11, 2003)

*yup*

That's what I've been catching, all of the ones caught out of Va. Beach had tails but when they make their run out in the James (especially at TCC) I 've caught many without tails. I was under the impression that they were coming that way breeding because they run so thick you can barely see any water from all the skates on the surface. At that time they seem to be much larger and heavier..


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## FishRung (Nov 26, 2002)

My final 2cents.

All skates and rays come into the world with tails and all of them deserve to go out that way.

All fish are there for us to catch and either eat or release.

As I see it there are no other alternatives.

BassBoy15: You must be one of the less forunate!

Happy Holidays to everyone.


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## sharkbite (Jun 8, 2001)

bassboy15: I'm assuming you're talking about the cownose ray (Rhinoptera bonasus)? You've already said why you cut the tails off but I can't see how any fisherperson (man or woman) can mutilate such a fish even as you stated "For tagging" which I personally think is a crock. These fish are amazing both to catch and to watch. I fish for them every year to test out new equipment and all are released. 

For those that do catch these be carefull they have a sharp jagged bone at the base of their tail and they won't think twice about ramming it into you. A lot of people like to break it off with a pair of pliers before releasing however, this is their only means of defense so be sure to return 'em to the water the way you caught them  


cownose ray 

Tight Lines

Tim


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## Hat80 (Sep 22, 2002)

*What go's around, comes around!*

Anybody that would cut the tail off a ray for no reason has a clear disrespect for life. To those who would, just remember. Luraina Bobitt is still looking for a goodman, sounds like she might be right up your alley. Kinda like a cheep tag, that makes me :barf:.....Tightlines


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## LEADDRAFT (Oct 9, 2001)

*Well...*

I don't cut the tails off them critters, so "not guilty" on that part... But I DO have a time getting the hook outta thier mouths,,, LOL Kinda reminds me of the time I got a irate seagull tangled up in my line....But I use the "cut the line method",, But on the seagull? Hmmm Imagin a onearmed fool with a tangled gull, and trying to keep my hat over it's head to calm the poor thing, while trying not to hurt the poor bird, untangling line And the Gull was none too happy, but in the end he only had his feelings hurt and I only with a few "bird bites" none serious though...  But on a better note theres a reason why peeps call a certain fish a "snapper Blue" If ya know what I mean,, I've seen many a person bitten by them guys....


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

We once had a thread on here about embarassing fishing storys,Lead Draft.. I forgot this one.. 
I used to fish Frisco Pier a LOT back when it had kings to catch. Many times out there,a bait was hard to come by. It was about 6:00 in the morning,I had lucked into about a 6" bluefish! I was in a *rush* to get that thing on my hook and in the water *quick* ,because it would be the only bait out,increasing my odds.. 
I had no shirt on and pinned the rascal against my chest so I could get a hook in him and put him in the water.. *WELL* the little devil jumped out there and snapped my nipple! I was lucky,he turned loose..  Needless to say,I handle snapper bluefish with care now.......


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## sharkbite (Jun 8, 2001)

haha I've been bitten quite a few times buy smaller bluefish tryin to get 'em on the hooks and out in the water during the spring king run this year. The bigger ones seemed to be a little easier to hold on to when you're hookin 'em up but those little ones never stop movin. 

Tight Lines


Tim


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## baddogg3521 (Aug 26, 2003)

i don't agree with cutting the tails off skates at all. i don't like them but i respect them as a creature and i am not going to kill it of harm it if it is not good to me. i once was out at lynnhaven and a couple were just pulling in skates like 5 in 20 min. so after watching them cut the tails off and then stab them and throw them over i asked them what they were doing and they said that they were chumming the water so i told them what they were full of. anyway thinking about it is pissing me off so i will stop.

to take the hook out of a skate i just step on his tail and take the hook out. and yes i have been stung by a ray and yes it hurts like nothing else in this world. 

i do like to hold the end of their tails and noses and spin them over the side of the pier to belly flop in the water. 

dan lee

fish til it hurts


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## sharkbite (Jun 8, 2001)

I wonder if a fish can get dizzy


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## dtw (Dec 1, 2003)

what about those oyster toads? I hate those things-they give me the creeps. Are they any good as bait, though? What about using skates, too, for that matter?

dtw


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## TRIGGERFISH (May 21, 2001)

neather the toad or the skate are good bait(maybe for crabs) and I do know of some people that eat both,not much meat in a toad. I do hate people who kill or injure skates,if it's no good to you, let it go,put it back where it came from. just my 2 cents


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## Bonito6t9 (Dec 2, 2003)

*Skates as Bait*

DTW:

I have caught many a blacktip off of skate wings. True it is cruel to cut 
off the tails of an innocent skate. But the wings on the other hand, is a different
story; Specifically im a shark fisherman, big equiptment=bigger fish. What you
wanna do is take about a 20 lb cownose and cut one wing into 3 equal pieces. 
Now you've got your bait; next take a good size hook (I perfer circle) preferebly
9/0 - 12/0 get some wire leader if your fishin at night and if your a daytime fisherman use 100-150 lb fluro. about 5' for leader Iv'e used bluefish ,croaker (which works great for bullshark , caught one 7'6'' 253 3oz.) , spot, and if im desperate whiting, but for the big blacktips you wanna take one of those pieces 
of wing hook it about 2inches from one of the corners, float it out there about 
3 to 400 yrds. and get ready for one of the best fights of your life...

Fred


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## murphman (Sep 4, 2003)

Bonito,
Interesting method to catch a shark, I have no problem with people like yourself who either take skate, for bait or food..it's the people who clip their tails or wings and throw them back. I also can't stand it when I see a whole skate that is dried up on a pier. There is no reason that I can see for this kind of behavior.


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## Bonito6t9 (Dec 2, 2003)

Murphman,
I feel the same way you do about the amputation of skate tails. I mean
imagen if everyone cut off the tails of skates and they died off. What the he**
would us pier fisherman catch on a slow day. Im not a big fan of eating skate
but if I see some small blacktips being caught i will defently use the skate as
bait. P.S. you a pier fisherman? if so where from?


Fred


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## Wilber (May 20, 2003)

If you aren't going to eat it or use it for bait put it back, the same way you found it.

I have been stung by a Sting Ray, in the ankle. Let me tell you it is bad, I mean really bad. A trip to the Medical Center is in order. But, I still don't cut their tails off.


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## Bonito6t9 (Dec 2, 2003)

*Back on the subject "Fishing"*

Hey anyone out there know any hot piers for the Stripers this time of year????
Any replies would be apprieciated thnx



Fred


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## murphman (Sep 4, 2003)

*Pier Fishing*

Bonito,
Routinely fish Cape Henlopen Pier in Lewes, DE..right on the Delaware Bay..we have also fished the Choptank River Pier and the Point Lookout Piers in Maryland. I hope to do some more pier fishing in the future but I have grown fond of Surf fishing this year and also have access to a few different friends boats during the summer months, and there is only some much fishing time. There have been some stripers caught from the CHP this year but the action has not been hot. The good thing about Cape Henlopen is that after you're done with the pier, you can fish the surf, there are numerous ORV access throught the state park there(with permit). If you don't have an ORV there are some walk on access areas as well. Tight lines buddy!


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## Bonito6t9 (Dec 2, 2003)

Thanks Murphman:

I will defently try the surf over in DE if I can get there. Yall catch any good
Cobes up in DE???


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## murphman (Sep 4, 2003)

Never really tried for cobes here. That's not to say that they don't exist. The DelBay has a few light house structures that would be attractive to cobias.


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## Bonito6t9 (Dec 2, 2003)

Hey well when Spring comes if I were you i'd throw out a live menhaden out on
a fishfinder rig when a school of baitfish come through..Works like a charm




Fred


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## skunked (Jun 4, 2001)

Well I have heard that the oyster toads are pretty good to eat. I know sharks eat rays but I think it would have to be a BIG shark to get hooked on one as I think they just kinda take bites out as the ray swims. Any shark big enough to eat a whole ray I think you would need a winch to catch.

If somebody just HAS to see if they catch the same ray twice just put a little hook thru one wing. I will rust out in a day or two. 

One last thing. I you are catching lots of trash fish a GOOD pair of long nosed pliers and some heavy leather gloves ( wet them first to avoid removeing the fishes slime) will go a long way towards making the whole event easier on you and the fish.


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## Bonito6t9 (Dec 2, 2003)

Skunked:

Im not talkin about puttin a whole ray on ur line..LoL ur right, I dont see how you could keep a 30lbr still enough for a shark to eat him. What you wanna do is cut a small triangle out the wing..Works great trust me


Fred


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