# Casting Advice



## Cor (Oct 6, 2006)

Sorry I can’t keep this short, but will do my best. I see there are many casters on this site.

QUESTION
1.	Do the experts think it is reasonably possible to increase my distance considering the limitations I have?
2.	What do you think I would need to change that could potentially make the biggest improvement towards obtaining my objective.

OBJECTIVE
To cast a lure fairly accurately (say within 15 yds.) at moving shoals of fish more then 130 yds. from the shore.
I would love to improve my distance to 150 yds. or more!

LIMITATIONS
•	I could hardly use line of less then 40 lb test
•	Minimum lure weight is probably 2 ½ oz , maximum probably 6 oz.
•	Rod cant be to light as I need to pull strong fish through underwater structures and kelp.

BACKGROUND
I can cast  and have experimented fairly extensively with this issue during the past 5 years or so. I have tried different rod lengths, powers, line weights, braids, casting weights, reels, diameter and/or placement of guides and none of this makes a material difference. Reducing line weight helps the most, but that is not a viable option as I catch large strong fish in difficult conditions. 

I find that it is difficult to load the rods (perhaps more gym is indicated….. LOL) and borrowing an adequate number of different rods or blanks to experiment with, is a practical problem. The more brute force I try to use, the greater my chance of obtaining an overrun on my reel with damages to line, and the less accuracy I achieve.

My best results I obtain using the following tackle:-
•	Daiwa grandwave X 40SHVK, mounted on the back hand
•	.05mm diameter line (42lb)
•	A stiff 11’6”or 12’ Purglass /3 or /4 blank (these are pretty strong action rods)
•	5 ¼ to 5 ½ oz casting weight
•	80lb Spectra braid shock leader

I can achieve a maximum distance of 140yds with this, but not consistently and not as accurately as I would like. 
Ironically, I can cast fairly comfortably and achieve 120 yds. with this tackle, but the extra 20 yds. requires a major effort, and increases my risk of a bad cast 10 fold.

I need a complete re think on this, perhaps go for a much longer rod, with lighter action and lighter casting weight or perhaps even a spinning reel.

I am not in the US, so it is not helpful to provide me with names of different blank manufactures as I would need to experiment with them first.

Thanks


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## Sea Level (Nov 20, 2005)

COR,

I don't claim to be an expert, but am familiar with your objective. Casting heavy lures to beach run Tarpon in schools of Menhaden or Mullet at those same distances here in NE Florida is basically the same issue.

For that type fishing, my go to outfit is a Purglas 350-2 with a Daiwa Emblem 5500XA. The rod has lowrider concept guides, and the reel is loaded with 30# braid.

I have conventional combinations that get me better distance with 4-5 ounce weights, but am more accurate with spinning tackle than I am with conventional tackle when casting lures. 

To me, you might look again at reducing your line diameter. If that means dropping to 30# in order to get more hookups through accuracy and distance, then I would do it. Also, I would select only those lures which fly the straightest and longest. Since you are obviously an experienced surf fisher, I must assume you have already experimented with all the lures on the market. 

I don't think you'll find many rods that will work much better than a Purglas 350-2 / 400-2, (Zziplex 3500 maybe) but I'm interested in what the others will have to say. If you are getting those kinds of distances - 140 yards - then it is going to be hard to improve much.

Like you, I am retired and if it weren't for regular trips to the gym, I wouldn't be slinging metal at far off targets.

Just curious, what is your target species?


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*not sure*

that you can improve much over what you are doing now giving the limitations you stated. As you already know,dropping in line size would be the quickest way to add distance. 

Maybe others can be of more help. Sorry

You may be right in that it sounds like you already have decent casting technique.( Don't neseccarily think the gym would help, but it certainly is not likely to hurt. )

If you were talking tournament casting with light lines and weights, I would say technique is more important than brute strength. I think the strength issue also becomes important when talking stiff rods and heavy weights.

The daiwa reel is not a bad caster. Their may be better reels, I just don't have any experience distance casting with that heavy of equipment.


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## Cor (Oct 6, 2006)

Thanks for quick comments. 

Line issue I guess is biggest constraint. My normal line is 0.55 mm 48 lb. I once tried 35lb. Caught two fish and line broke twice on fish in one day. It gets damaged on rocks and burns through too quickly from lots of casting. I don't like to see fish swimming away with treble 5/0 hooks and lure in mouth.

Lures..... I make my own, straight simple irons with weight at back work best, particularly in wind.

I fish for Yellowtail.

I have various Daiwa's, and for distance casting that one seems the best. It has a magnificent free spool and I use thickish oil to slow it slightly. Not the best all round reel though in my humble opinion.

I have tried using thin braid, but had very unsatisfactory results......another long story that.


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## Seachaser (Sep 27, 2004)

*Line solutions...*

I do not know what brand you are using but 35 lb line will catch anything that swims. I landed a 28 lb ray on 14 lb. test and some large reds on 8 lb. test. Anything over 17 - 20 lb test and you can forget distance casting unless you switch to braid. Rig up a spinner such as the daiwa emblem with 65 lb. braid on a good long rod and you should hit that distance without a problem. I am not a good caster, but I can do about that with a 3oz. wweight and bait.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Seachaser said:


> I do not know what brand you are using but 35 lb line will catch anything that swims. I landed a 28 lb ray on 14 lb. test and some large reds on 8 lb. test. Anything over 17 - 20 lb test and you can forget distance casting unless you switch to braid. Rig up a spinner such as the daiwa emblem with 65 lb. braid on a good long rod and you should hit that distance without a problem. I am not a good caster, but I can do about that with a 3oz. wweight and bait.



Think the problem is with the rocks abrading the line- as he mentioned, my experience is braid will not stand up to rocks well- cut a couple of strands and you lose line strength quickly- have seen 80 lb braid shredded in no time


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## Connman (Apr 14, 2001)

Have you tried a smaller reel say a 30 size daiwa , loaded with 65lb braid and a long mono shock leader say 50' or so . The braid will give you pulling power and reduced line diameter to aid casting and good line capacity , the long mono shock leader will give you good abrasion resistance to the rocks .
Also for braid stick with fireline , IMHO best abrasion resistance of the so called braided lines .


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## Cor (Oct 6, 2006)

*Braid*

I "spin fish" i.o.w. cast & retrieve and in a good day can make more then 500, 80 yds. cast easily. (not with this tackle, 200 in a day is enough to nearly kill me) 

My experience with 3 different types of 
Spectra/Dynema braid is the following:-

- It wears very quickly and becomes "woolly" from casting and contact with rocks.

- It then seems to stick to the reel or "digs" in to the line on the reel causing overwind or other disaster.

- This also caused wind resistance when casting.

- When you do get an overwind, you end up nearly losing your rod and reel, and takes hours to clear up.

- It cuts your fingers from guiding it on to the reel.

- It gets damage from friction heat, has very low melting point.

- Its to expensive to replace regularly.


Perhaps I should again try it, this time on my long rod.



Seachaser said:


> I do not know what brand you are using but 35 lb line will catch anything that swims. .....


True, but the problem is that when you fish near structure (rocks & kelp) you need to control the fish and pull it very hard to have any chance of landing it.
After a days fishing the line has nicks and burn marks and 35 lb no longer pulls nearly that strength.
If you use a drag on Yellowtail in the conditions I fish under, you will lose 8/10 fish.


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

*There is always .....*

a kayak


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## Samurai (Nov 24, 2005)

Seachaser said:


> I do not know what brand you are using but 35 lb line will catch anything that swims.
> If you ever make it out to Hawaii,I will definitely change your mind.True most people could never pull on a surf rod hard enough to break fresh 35# line.I think you seriously under estimate how much/fast damage can occur when mono rubs on stucture like lava and coral.The smallest line I cast on conventional is 50# and the largest being 100#.I don't do this for bragging rights,it's a necessity if you want to land big fish here.I'm not sure where Cor is from but I can really see the reason for the 40# mono minimun.
> Cor,FYI I believe the longest cast on 40# in competition here in Hawaii was somewhere around 170 yrds.This was done by a caster that was considered exceptional and was one of the best I have met.At the recent Jerry Valentine tourney the longest cast on 40# was about 140 yrds by a P&S member.150 is not impossible nut with consistancy and accuracy will be hard IMO.


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## FishRung (Nov 26, 2002)

COR,

You don't say what casting style you are using. Maybe there's an angle to exploit there. Although, and you hint at this, the next 20yds will be as difficult as the first 130yds is easy.

We speak in terms of Off The Ground, Pendulum, Hatteras and other casting styles, and videos exist that demonstrate these.

What can you tell us about your style?

*Brian*


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## Cor (Oct 6, 2006)

Although completely "home grown" my casting style is pretty close to the Pendulum, bearing in mind, when on uneven and slippery surfaces you need to keep your feet firmly on mother earth!

Judging by the replies here and what I already knew, it seems like I am not doing too badly 

It may certainly be possible to go to a 60lb braid, but then I will need to carry a 4th rod with me..... to use only when maximum cast is required.

To me the ultimate answer is probably still to spend a day with a variety of rods to play around with and to find one that will suit me 100%

Thanks guys!


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*Equipment*

I have several Purglas blanks. They cast very well. Tommy Wheeler builds blanks that will outcast them. Wheels Reels is the name of his website. I think they will outcast Zziplex even. The Fusion made a believer out of me. I think 17 lb test with a long 50 lb shock and about 4 ft of 100 is what I would try. This can work on a 525 mag or a 7500 Abu. We catch some big fish on 17 here in the U.S. . You are fishing next to impossible fishing grounds if you really need a 40 lb mainline. I would use spinning gear and 50 lb power pro like Connan said if that does not work. If all you are looking for is a blank ....Fusion.


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## Cor (Oct 6, 2006)

surf rat said:


> I have several Purglas blanks. They cast very well. Tommy Wheeler builds blanks that will outcast them. Wheels Reels is the name of his website. I think they will outcast Zziplex even. The Fusion made a believer out of me. I think 17 lb test with a long 50 lb shock and about 4 ft of 100 is what I would try. This can work on a 525 mag or a 7500 Abu. We catch some big fish on 17 here in the U.S. . You are fishing next to impossible fishing grounds if you really need a 40 lb mainline. I would use spinning gear and 50 lb power pro like Connan said if that does not work. If all you are looking for is a blank ....Fusion.


Until recently I did not realise that these blanks were fairly well known in the States! 
I make up my own rods and see that as part of the game I play, i.e. catch a fish on the rod I built and lure I made myself.

Yellowtail immediately head for the nearest bit of kelp or structure in sight. Even on 50lb line you can sometimes not hold him once he gets going and if he gets there, he is gone and you end up with the kelp or rock on the end of your line.  (_I have never figured out how they manage to do that_)

I generally use about 30ft leader!


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## Don B (Jul 28, 2001)

Hi Cor,

You are doing a fantastic job of casting. The record in Hawaii for casting 40# (.024"), and 8 ounces is 181 yards (not me). 150 yards with 6 ounces is doable under favorable conditions. I consider 7 ounces to be optimal if you have the strength.

I have a Purglas 13' 400/5 and do not consider it to be a casting pole. The action is far too soft and I have to change my timing to wait for the tip to come around before releasing the lead.

Look for a rod with more backbone or at least one with a parallel handle. 13' would probably be a good length. A composite tip would be nice since you are doing some varient of the pendulum. By composite, I am refering to the top 18 to 24 inches of the tip being glass with the lower section of the tip being graphite.

Your reel is fine. You may want to look at optimizing its tuning.

Hope this helps,
Don


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## Cor (Oct 6, 2006)

Don B 

Are you sure about the 400/5? Although the company is sometimes prepared to make "something special" on order, I have never heard of a /5 rod that they make. Does not appear on their website either.

I have done some crazy things in my life.... I bought a 400/4 and considered it a "pole" and could not load it. So decided to use some waterpaper on it and make the front 2/3's somewhat thinner..... I still discussed it with Purglass and initially they guy said I must be crazy to do it, then he said as long as you don't "over do it" It took a long time, worked on it, stuck 2 guides on it, tested it and so on. I started the process by fixing it horizontally and hanging a weight on it to check the curve of the bend, and continuously checked my progress that way.

I still have the rod, and it cast pretty well now.

This should rather not be attempted


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## Cor (Oct 6, 2006)

surfchunker said:


> a kayak


Have you see the Great Whites around here?  
I seriously looked at a model helicopter to take the lure out and drop it over the shoal of fish. I'm sure it will work, unless the engine noise spooks the fish.

Much too expensive to replace when it falls in the water though.


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## Don B (Jul 28, 2001)

Cor said:


> Don B
> 
> Are you sure about the 400/5? Although the company is sometimes prepared to make "something special" on order, I have never heard of a /5 rod that they make. Does not appear on their website either.


Hi Cor,

Yes. I also have a 400/6, but never built it. I got as far as extending the handle about 8". It was put aside for better projects. A 400/7 was also available from Purglas.

The importer of Purglas into the US was Robert Taylor. I met him at the ICAST convention in Las Vegas this past July and he mentioned that he no longer imports the rods.

Best wishes,
Don


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*400-5*

I also have a couple 400-5 Purglas blanks. They are great fish fighting rods. They throw well. There are blanks that throw better.


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## Don B (Jul 28, 2001)

Hi Cor,

I sent a PM.
However, your inbox is full and not accepting messages.

Best wishes,
Don


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## Cor (Oct 6, 2006)

I have been away from my office for a while.

The Purglas blanks/rods we commonly use here seem to be of different specs then what they sell in the US. That is what I infer from their product list.

That is why the strongest we get is the /4.


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