# Good luck finding sand fleas here



## speckhunter80 (Oct 3, 2011)

http://www.surfchex.com/carolina-beach-web-cam.php


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

That will destroy fishing for years in that location . . .


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

ez2cdave said:


> That will destroy fishing for years in that location . . .


Every time a Hurricane or major Northeaster rolls down the beach it moves the sand drastically, it all heads South by the way.

Last time I checked the fishing resumes a week or so after ocean calms down, this is from a limited experience of riding out only 3 Hurricanes and 100 Northeasters.

How is pumping sand on the beach going to ruin fishing for years?

Next Big Blow will move all that Sand being pumped today down the beach.

Have you ever lived on the beach?


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## Madmike23322 (Mar 30, 2009)

The sand is pumped in from deep water.. It doesn't have the nutrients or life in it to support many fleas. It's not the same sand from up the beach. And before you ask me if I've ever even been to the ocean, I lived in Nags head during their last replenishment and the difference in life is marked and noticeable .


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Madmike23322 said:


> The sand is pumped in from deep water.. It doesn't have the nutrients or life in it to support many fleas. It's not the same sand from up the beach. And before you ask me if I've ever even been to the ocean, I lived in Nags head during their last replenishment and the difference in life is marked and noticeable .


Does it last for years? or just until the next big blow moves all that offshore pumped sand inside of Oregon Inlet, which is where most of Nags Head sand winds up these days due to the Jetty.

By the way before the Rock Jetty was installed back in the 1970-80's the water under the catwalk at Bonner Bridge was 20 feet deep, this is coming from someone who lived in Nags Head/Rodanthe in that time period.

And before anyone asks me I am in Chicago now doing my part in fish conservation, eating only Starkist.

They did a beach replenishment in Rodanthe in 2014, all that sand is now pretty much down in Hatteras Inlet, and Hatteras Inlet is pretty shoaled up, at the moment.

Funny thing about sand on the Atlantic Coast, it is all ways moving South.

People complain about beach replenishment, unless the road (Route 12) washes out and then they complain about the narrow beach, and lack of access.

I was not aware that offshore sand is all dead, I thought it was just sand that was in deeper water.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

The point I am trying the make is nothing lasts forever at the intersection of tides and sand, all the houses in my Youth in Kitty Hawk went into the sea.

Certainly opinions other than my own are acceptable, especially when it comes to Sand fleas which do not come into play much for the style of fishing I spent my time at.


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## joemullet (Dec 20, 2005)

40yr back I played baseball on the beach in kitty hawk, sand went south. mike you need to quit the starkest.


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

Madmike23322 said:


> The sand is pumped in from deep water.. It doesn't have the nutrients or life in it to support many fleas. It's not the same sand from up the beach. And before you ask me if I've ever even been to the ocean, I lived in Nags head during their last replenishment and the difference in life is marked and noticeable .


*
http://www.surfermag.com/features/fl_bch-erosion/*

QUOTE from the article:

"TERRY GIBSON: First off, erosion isn’t a problem for beaches, just for buildings. And in most cases, the sediment they’re dredging up is clustered mud, and/or fossil fragments, not sand. Several of Florida’s top geologists are bothered that the Corps and the dredge lobby call this stuff “sand,” much less these massive dredge-and-fill projects “nourishments.” *The geologists demonstrated how this stuff doesn’t behave anything like native beach sand once placed in the intertidal zone.* This stuff has been sitting out there for 5,000 to 7,000 years in a low-energy environment while algae and microorganisms bored into the grains and hollowed them out. Plus, the slurry is full of fine sediments, and the shell fragments that are too light and fragile to stay on the beach or intact in the high-energy surf zone. The waves slam the fragments into each other; they break apart and wash away to scour reefs when present, *choke filter-feeding beach invertebrates, and stress fish gills. The stuff is so light that “nourished” beaches erode two to 12 times faster than native beaches.* Plus, turbidity levels that exceed Clean Water Act regulations have been recorded months or even years after a project.

SURFERMAG.COM: I lived in West Palm Beach several years ago. I remember when they pumped the stuff onto the beaches at Juno. The sandbars were all screwed up for surfing and the water was all milky from the stuff they pumped onshore.

TERRY GIBSON: That was one of the worst projects in history. *Five years later, the water is still milky. It took two hurricanes to fix the sandbars, and the fishing has never recovered. *They’re about to bury Phipps Reef next, even though the mitigation reef is covered and the Lake Worth Pier is just a couple of miles of beach. Hell, it’s happening all over the state.

END QUOTE:

Tight Lines !


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## plotalot (Apr 27, 2009)

ez2cdave said:


> That will destroy fishing for years in that location . . .


Study up a bit biological and or ecological succession instead of making unfounded claims based on a video. I could claim the exact opposite with this video as the only evidence and defend that claim a whole lot better you can defend yours. I'm not a fan of beach renourishment projects for different reasons, yet realize that they don't spell out the demise of fishing.



Madmike23322 said:


> The sand is pumped in from deep water.. It doesn't have the nutrients or life in it to support many fleas. It's not the same sand from up the beach. And before you ask me if I've ever even been to the ocean, I lived in Nags head during their last replenishment and the difference in life is marked and noticeable .


Remember that every single grain of that sand, came firm high up on land at one time and could have resided on the very beach they are being located to.
You mentioned being on scene during the last replenishment. Does that mean that there were prior replenishing events that life,as you put it, recovered from? How long did your unscientific observations span? You do need a weather event to get the water high and angry or a bit of time before the beach's changes could be attributed to nature more than man.


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## Madmike23322 (Mar 30, 2009)

I was just stateing my personal observations guys. Of course the Sand recovered, like everything else in life, nothing last forever. I didn't say it was completely void of life , just that there was noticeably less for some time after. I was fishing it pretty much everyday for about a year leading up to and for a year after , so I don't understand the unscientific slight, Should I began to record every sandfleas size,weight ,sex....and have my records published for peer review b4 I can state my personal opioion on a fishing message board...


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## letmefish (May 23, 2015)

OMG!!!

Who gives a crap about all these negative opinions. Can we all just agree that it will have a negative impact on fishing that stretch of beach for some time to come. I know we can all agree that it will suck walking barefoot on that stretch of beach for a long time. Yes it will take a while before the Sand Fleas re-populate that stretch of beach, but they'll get it done eventually. Why the heck does everything around here have to turn into an "E-penis" contest?


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## bronzbck1 (Jun 13, 2007)

Nags Head bounced right back from the beach nourishment. I all ways fish Hatteras Island. I fish the upper beaches for trout and didn't notice a difference, I never fished that area with bottom rigs and after the nourishment we won the Nags Head tournament the first time I ever threw a river rig there. The first blow changes it right away! We have big current up this way that would make it bounce back quicker but it should bounce back down there too.


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## Madmike23322 (Mar 30, 2009)

Interstesting debate for sure. With the norishment here in Buxton in the cards it's starting to
Look like we're all gonna get another lesson anyways.


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## Reelturner (Dec 24, 2003)

*Joe*



joemullet said:


> 40yr back I played baseball on the beach in kitty hawk, sand went south. mike you need to quit the starkest.


Well , damn I see you came back to earth!!


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## greg12345 (Jan 8, 2007)

my 2c based just on my experience: beach renourishment most certainly puts a hurting on flea and coquina clam populations, at least in s topsail. i only go 2-3x a year but over the years i have noticed a sig drop off in flea colonies after a renourishment that often takes 3-5y to rebound back. prob not a big deal to most but a big deal to me as i am flea fisherman and it makes getting bait a gas guzzling affair. i have caught some nice fish off a flea-less beach but i do think the fishing drops off at least a little IMO, would make sense that fish go where the food is and i always take it as a good sign when i see a shoreline full of fleas/clams.


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

greg12345 said:


> beach renourishment most certainly puts a hurting on flea and coquina clam populations, at least in s topsail. i only go 2-3x a year but over the years i have noticed a sig drop off in flea colonies after a renourishment that often takes 3-5y to rebound back.


That's what I said earlier and the article I posted backed that up. Beach "re-nourishment" only saves Real Estate, is detrimental to sea life, and takes years to recover ( if they don't keep repeating the process) .


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## LEADDRAFT (Oct 9, 2001)

Let Me Chime in on this Lil Debate, As it DIRECTLY affects yours truly.. This is the _Second renourishment project in 7 years.._.. The first was "almost" like the One pictured on "Surfchex". Only this time we are getting 2X the sand this go around.. Like the first time, _everything_ WAS BURIED.. Last summer We just were seeing sand fleas again after the first project. Fishing was something sort of Dismal the First part of the Season. If there Isn't NO CRITTERS for the fish to feed on the bottom they will not be there! Nor will Kings etc etc.. We got "Lucky" that year, getting a Nor'Easter in May washing 90% of the "new sand" on down the beach..
So be aware, from Carolina North down to about the Old Center pier will be DEVOID of fish and Life, then on-wards to Kure pier As beach Renourishement will be going on down there also.. Hopefully this Weeks supposed Nor'easter will move a lot of that sand.. Otherwise I'll be fishing Wrightsville or Oak Island beaches.. Folks might as well grab a big bag of 100 dollar bills a dump it off the end of the pier.. Though I will be reporting "soon" from Northern Ext.. Letting ya'll know how it goes.. *Just remember*, If your Surf Fishing, If you don't SEE any of those liddle birds working the Waters Edge, move on, it's "Lifeless", meaning NO FISH.. Move-on until you see birds working the surf, THEN you'll find fish..maybe We ought to get Mole Crabs, (sandfleas) on the Endangered Species list, that'll stop the Dredging & renourishment, STAT!


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## LEADDRAFT (Oct 9, 2001)

You are correct Sir..


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## don brinson (Apr 8, 2011)

Well I purchased a house on the south end of Topsail last summer. So I just want to say thank you to the folks in the communities north of us for supplying us with new sand every year.


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## greg12345 (Jan 8, 2007)

you carolina beach folks should speed up the process/return of sand fleas. don't know if this helps, but here's what i do. wait about 6mo or so after a renourishment. then find a nearby beach with a massive/healthy population of fleas. get your flea rake and a 5 gal bucket with holes in it (to allow water to drain). now rake until your arms are about to fall off and your 5 gal bucket is packed with live fleas. drive right back to wherever your "renourished" beach is and scatter pods of 100-200 fleas up and down the beach at the shoreline. do it again 6mo later. within 2-3y you should have some colonies starting to appear again. or maybe they would have appeared anyways. but i have paid attention over the years and the colonies are there are always in the same stretch of beach that I originally reseeded/planted them in, and there are few in the stretches i did not reseed them in. who knows.

then hopefully the big pomps start to come back around.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

greg12345 said:


> you carolina beach folks should speed up the process/return of sand fleas. don't know if this helps, but here's what i do. wait about 6mo or so after a renourishment. then find a nearby beach with a massive/healthy population of fleas. get your flea rake and a 5 gal bucket with holes in it (to allow water to drain). now rake until your arms are about to fall off and your 5 gal bucket is packed with live fleas. drive right back to wherever your "renourished" beach is and scatter pods of 100-200 fleas up and down the beach at the shoreline. do it again 6mo later. within 2-3y you should have some colonies starting to appear again. or maybe they would have appeared anyways. but i have paid attention over the years and the colonies are there are always in the same stretch of beach that I originally reseeded/planted them in, and there are few in the stretches i did not reseed them in. who knows.
> 
> then hopefully the big pomps start to come back around.


*This is the most intelligent post on this whole thread*, if all the flea fisherman would follow your lead there would be no problem. Buy a rake....save a flea...They could force Dare County community service convicts to save the fleas, instead of washing fire trucks

The other night I was wondering if Sand fleas could sense a rapidly dropping barometer and then dig really deep, in an effort to avoid 20 foot surf from an incoming storm devastating their colony, they have survived longer than man has been alive (just an unscientific postulation on my part) This thread has really got me thinking about Fleas and I almost never fish with them, preferring live mullet or live shrimp when I am fishing for the dinner table.

When I was a kid fishing the beach in Kitty Hawk 50 years ago, the beach was littered with Razor Clams, I think pollution from septic tanks killed off the Razor Clam colonies, that is just my view and the only scientific evidence I have is that the Razor Clams are no longer there on the OBX and the OBX septic tanks are still leeching into the ocean edge, multiplied by the hundreds...


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Garboman said:


> *This is the most intelligent post on this whole thread*, if all the flea fisherman would follow your lead there would be no problem. Buy a rake....save a flea...They could force Dare County community service convicts to save the fleas, instead of washing fire trucks
> 
> The other night I was wondering if Sand fleas could sense a rapidly dropping barometer and then dig really deep, in an effort to avoid 20 foot surf from an incoming storm devastating their colony, they have survived longer than man has been alive (just an unscientific postulation on my part) This thread has really got me thinking about Fleas and I almost never fish with them, preferring live mullet or live shrimp when I am fishing for the dinner table.
> 
> When I was a kid fishing the beach in Kitty Hawk 50 years ago, the beach was littered with Razor Clams, I think pollution from septic tanks killed off the Razor Clam colonies, that is just my view and the only scientific evidence I have is that the Razor Clams are no longer there on the OBX and the OBX septic tanks are still leeching into the ocean edge, multiplied by the hundreds...


In a related story, Gulf Shores has banned alcohol on the beach for Spring Breakers, my prediction will be Spring Breakers will be hard to locate next year on Gulf Shores Beaches.


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## Digger54 (Sep 11, 2012)

Garboman said:


> In a related story, Gulf Shores has banned alcohol on the beach for Spring Breakers, my prediction will be Spring Breakers will be hard to locate next year on Gulf Shores Beaches.


They will be on the piers instead trying their hands at fishing. They will be easy to spot as they will be throwing their lines parallel with the pier to see how many lines they can pick up.


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

Garboman said:


> *This is the most intelligent post on this whole thread*, if all the flea fisherman would follow your lead there would be no problem. Buy a rake....save a flea...They could force Dare County community service convicts to save the fleas, instead of washing fire trucks


Be careful what you wish for . . . The Liberals might try to say that Sand Fleas are "endangered" and make it illegal to use them for bait !


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## letmefish (May 23, 2015)

LEADDRAFT said:


> Folks might as well grab a big bag of 100 dollar bills a dump it off the end of the pier..


Yes everyone head to the pier and do that. I'll be down below in my little boat with a net.  hehehe.


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## LEADDRAFT (Oct 9, 2001)

So I did alil investigating... per-Spring outing you might say..
A Number has been done to the beach... I said above 2X the sand.. NOPE, more like 4X.... Nourishment is completed.. the Surf zone is DEAD... Stone Cold DEAD... Even though We had that good Blow for a few days, It didn't do "Much" to move hardly any sand... Did I say the surf Zone is devoid of Life? YEP....
It's going to take Much, Much More than a Nor'Easter or 2 to move the MASSIVE Amount of sand that has been deposited...
At high tide I observed a surfer get off His Board AT THE PiER END and didn't go over His head... at the Low, I doubt at MOST theres even 5' of water at the end...
Low Tide, I have a picture 1 hour before dead low... there isn't AT MOST 50' of "fishable" pier length left... Water is Milky, for about 50 yards +/- from the waters Edge..
If I was a Pier Owner,, I'd be LIVID about now....
I doubt ANY KNGS or Spanish, (Or much of anything else) will be caught this year... We'll have to see how it shakes out...
JMP here I come...
Kure is beginning to get it's share of Nourishment too.. just a heads up..
1 hour before dead low.. 4/20...


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## ncdead (Jun 16, 2015)

It's all about tourists dollars.....more beach to occupy for people spending out of town bucks. Hate it for the pier owners and people who like to fish. And the little shore birds, mole crabs.....all creatures that rely on a natural environment. Money talks..


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