# Shocker and main line freying..WTF



## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

Ok I posted b4 about my leader freying, well I went out today to see if I could see what was happening but now it is even worst. There is no chips in my giudes and my leader is freying alone with about 10 feet of main line right be fore the shocker. I broke off about 5 times today. Can anyone tell me why this is happening and how to correct it?


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

I read your old thread. 

A couple of questions.

What size shock leader and main line are you using?

Is the line old? Been left in the sunlight? 

Is this happening on the 6500 that you cut the bar off? If so, did you smooth the cuts as to not leave any jagged edges?

Is your spool slipping?

What did you use to check your guides?


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

I am using 17 lb sufix Tri main and Ande 60LB leader. Yes this is on the 6500 and the cuts have been smoothed out and I put a dab of hot glue over them just incase after last time. The line is from a 1 lb spool I bought from Randy last spring. The rest of the line is perfect just that section right after the leader and the leader itself. I am not sure about what you mean about the spool slipping. I have so much going through my head when I am casting that it is hard to tell. I tried no using the finder protector. It is one of the ones made for fishing not a home made job. I burned my thumb print off. So I had to use it. How od I know if the spool is slipping?


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*I would try giving the line and shocker to*

some one else to try on their own combo; this wold rule out if it is something you are doing or your rod/reel. If the results are the same is it the mono.


You could also change your setup; try the rod with a different reel; but same line and vice versa, put the reel and same line a different rod.

You got to start eliminating possible causes.


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

*wraping the leader*

You you reel the leader onto the spool how are you laying it on there ... real close or farther apart and overlapping .... and where are you putting the knot


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## Lip Ripper (Dec 8, 2003)

if you are useing a ball as a weight. i may be able to help you. when i used a baseball for practice i had the same problem. after the ball lands it will roll for a little while, and if you reel the ball back to where you cast from it rolls alot. when it rolls it twists the crap out of your line. and the line twisting that much makes it break real fast. so try walking to the ball while you reel. it should help, if you are in fact useing a ball. my.02

one way to tell if this is happening is look at your leader after every cast(especially around the weight), if you are useing clear it will start to get a little white. when you can see white its going to break after 1 or 2 more casts.


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## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

*Burning your thumb print off?*

Thats your deal then right there if thats the case. You are smoking the line as well as your thumb. I have seen that before on line. there is so much heat buidling up in the slip that its "scorching the line and you thumb. (Does the skin turn white when you burn it?)

First off- Change your shocker to a new one. You might want to try 50 lb. 

Also, How full is your spool on your 6500? I would take a few yards off of it. Take it down to a point where you might consider it low and want to respool. This will help get a little better grip on your spool with your thumb. It will also give you some newer line to judge by.

See if this helps at all....If not, then I guess I really dont know what Im talking about.
(i have actually frayed my line by burning my thumb before)


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

Firespyder7 said:


> Thats your deal then right there if thats the case. You are smoking the line as well as your thumb. I have seen that before on line. there is so much heat buidling up in the slip that its "scorching the line and you thumb. (Does the skin turn white when you burn it?)


I thought the same thing. However, it's hard to believe that his line is breaking so close to the shock leader (and the shock leader itself) from his thumb. 

Unless he's hitting his cast too early.

I dunno. 

Lipripper's theory is the best one I've heard yet.


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

*Drag*

Does it matter whether your drag is tight or loose ... just a question for myself ... I usually put mine more to the tight side but not as tight as it would be fighting a fish ....


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

Drag doesn't matter on a conventional. But even on a conventional, I keep my drag loose durning the cast. That's in case I forget to disengage the spool.  A loose drag will reduce the chance of a breakoff when I this happens. 

On a spinning rod, I like to keep the drag very tight on the cast. That keeps the spool from slipping when I hit it hard.


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

You know what I think it is because I am using a ball as a weight, I have noticed that it rolls like hell when I am bring it back in. Thats gotta be it. I am gonna give it another go after work today since I have a little more daylight now


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*you should*

be able to eliminate possibilities one by one, You should (will )know if the spool is slipping during the cast, however if the fraying is only on the last bit of shock leader near the main line it is most likely due to slippage. If it is from dragging a ball across a field the fraying could be at any spot.

You can check by setting the rod down and walking to the ball after the cast, when you get there check the leader, if it is already frayed it has to be happening during the cast, if not frayed walk back and reel in as normal, see if the leader is now frayed when it gets to you.

and if need be try another reel to eliminate the reel itself


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

Well this doesnt have to do with the fraying part but I did learn from Tommy when casting the baseball if its slipping your putting to much power into the cast to early. I had to think of it this way,,, when your slowly building up the power no slippage and when I put the power to the cast right away I had the reel slip. It's easier to make the ball go from 40 to 100 mph on a slow build up of power vrs 0 to 100.


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## chris storrs (Aug 25, 2005)

justinfisch01 said:


> . It is one of the ones made for fishing not a home made job. I burned my thumb print off. So I had to use it. How od I know if the spool is slipping?


thumbprint burnt off=slipping thumb
slipping thumb=burnt line
burnt line=kerpow

is what your using a leather thumb guard think at the desk of most B and T's?They burn the line like crazy..atleast for me....seem to slip alot easier than my thumb does

ive never had teh ball twist up thing happen, ive had tangles butr no broken line...not saying thats not whats causing it but seems unlikely


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

Yeah it is driving me crazy b/c I have never had it before, but then again I have never really "practiced" casting till now. But it is also the first time I used the hat. cast. I am going to go to the field today after work and see what I can come up with. I try and eliminate things one by one. Make a cast then walk out and check the leader, then reel it in and check it again. If it was messed up when I walked out then it shouldn't be messed up after I reel it in. but if it is slightly damaged then I know it is from the ball rolling. It was happening with both reels I was throwing, but like I said I have only been trying the Hat cast since practicing. I hope to figure it out today. wish me luck ,because i can't be having this happen when fishing other wise I might as well just cut the line when I hook up with a fish


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

*Ok I figured it out...I think*

Ok just back from another dreadful session. I figured out that my thumb is slipping and about the 2nd or 3rd cast I am breaking off. Made a few nice casts in the begining but then it was all over, blew up one reel on a break off then broken off on my other rod. I think I am also having trouble loading my OMCP 12H. I tried adding a little hop which is probably really bad form but it seemed like it helped. I was tossing 6 oz but I rarely ever throw anything less plus bait. May have to go to 8 oz when throwing it. I am assuming that the best way to correct thumb slippage is moving the the shock knot to the middle or the right side (I cast a 6501) So I need to jam the knot up against the side where my thumb is?


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

My last resort is I am gonna try and pick up a piece of the green bike tube from the bike shop on my way home from work. I sure hope this does the trick. I think the other problem is that I have small hands. oh well


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*we need to see*

how you are putting your thumb over the reel- small hands don't help but you can work on a better grip- some like the bike tube,but I don't. I shredded one the other day when it came into contact with the shock knot.

One way to aid your grip is to put the knot in the middle of the reel and clamp down on the knot with the leather thumb guard. Do not do this with a bare thumg or bicycle tube. 

The knot will tear your bare thumb apart, and wreaked havoc on me when trying this with a bicycle inner tube. The leather thumb guard is much thicker. You really gain a lot of purchase when using the leather on top of the knot- but be warned if you are still slipping you can seriously damage the knot. I think you are most likely powering into the cast too early. We could use pictures or better yet video of your cast to better offer advice.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Shooter said:


> Well this doesnt have to do with the fraying part but I did learn from Tommy when casting the baseball if its slipping your putting to much power into the cast to early. I had to think of it this way,,, when your slowly building up the power no slippage and when I put the power to the cast right away I had the reel slip. It's easier to make the ball go from 40 to 100 mph on a slow build up of power vrs 0 to 100.


Well said Shooter, I was definetly powering into my cast too soon. Once Tommy corrected me on this I did not have any more burning of thumb or line.


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## Reelturner (Dec 24, 2003)

Well, my .02 worth, would say to cast with a weight so that when the weight lands on the grass that it doesn't keep rolling or bouncing for a few more feet. To me using a ball as this would abraid the end of your line as you are describing. Do this after changing your line or better yet cutting some off the end (this would be cheaper than re-spooling) and replacing the shock.

Help me on this I don't understand how the reel slipping would create the chaffing of line. Do you mean that your thumb is slipping instead of the reel slipping???

I'm curious to see what is going on with your ordeal.

Reelturner:beer:


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Reelturner said:


> Well, my .02 worth, would say to cast with a weight so that when the weight lands on the grass that it doesn't keep rolling or bouncing for a few more feet. To me using a ball as this would abraid the end of your line as you are describing. Do this after changing your line or better yet cutting some off the end (this would be cheaper than re-spooling) and replacing the shock.
> 
> Help me on this I don't understand how the reel slipping would create the chaffing of line. Do you mean that your thumb is slipping instead of the reel slipping???
> 
> ...


The reel slips (starts to turn) while the thumb is still applying pressure, this friction heats up the line and can damage it in a heart beat. Almost always due to hitting the rod too hard too early.


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

Ok I don't have access to a camera right now with video, but you are mostly saying I am trying to put too much ass into it to early? So should I slow down? I really don't know how to correct it. I am a mess....


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

I know I am probably drive you all crazy with this dumb problem and I know you have all heard it before. I have come to the conclusion that I am hitting the power to early in the cast and that my thumb is probably slipping due to the whole technique issue. Wed. I am gonna get some time after the wife goes to work. So I will be off to the field again looking like a dumb a$$. Just in my head it doesn't seem like I can get it to go anywhere without the power but I am gonna trust what you guys are telling me. Grip the spool first, put the shock knot in the middle under my thumb, hold tight, slow down. Its gonna be hard but I have to give it a try.


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

justinfisch01 

You've gotten some good advise here. If you are burning your thumb due to slippage then you are coming in too early with the power. This can also result in low, line drive casts that usually pull to the left of target. I may have overlooked it but I did not read what type of cast you are throwing.

Try this.

Don't apply the full power until your left hand (assuming right handed caster) is out in front of your face. Everything up to that point is preloading the rod. When the left hand is in front of your face, make a strong pull to the chest (left) and a strong punch (right). This should send the lead flying without removing a layer of thumbskin.

Tommy


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

Tommy- I have gotten some good advice trying to diagnos my problem, I went from thinking it was the casting ball to now it is all me. I am gonna have to try what you recomended it is going to take a lot of patients to try and slow down. Its a lot to think about. I thank you all for all the input, I have to respool and hit the field on Wed. Once angain I thank all of you and will try and keep you posted on my progress. Wish me luck cause I am going to try and hit SPSP this weekend.


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

just finished spooling both reels with some cheap line i found in the garage. Its heavier then i normally use (20lb) but it will do while I am trying to correct my form. I am really excited about getting back out there tomorrow. I did some practice in my family room(Lol) with half a rod just to try and correct my form and try what Tommy told me . Wish me luck guys. I'll post how I did hopefully I corrected the problem. Now one more thing, I am throwing a new OMCP heavy with 6 oz, do you think that, that is part of my problem: the rod not loading with only 6 oz. It like a telephone pole.


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## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

If you're practicing in your living room with the "half-rod", watch out for the ceiling fan...  

I have the OMCP Heavy with a 525 on it. I find that with my meager casting skills, I cannot get it to load at all with less than 8. This is why I've moved to practicing with my OM 12' Lite and 5oz: easier on my arms... It seems that the OMs cast best in the middle of their weight range... 

I also sometimes have your problem of a chaffed leader/line. I used to have slippage problems due to sweaty hands and powering too early so I've taken to using a small tab of leather to grip the spool. When I'm fishing, the leather gets wet after a couple of casts, so it's fine, but on the field, the leather stays dry and chaffs the line. This is because while the leather (or your thumb, or the thumb guard) is lifted free of the spool, the fluff at the beginning of the cast causes the loose loops of line to be rubbed against the leather, thereby getting chaffed. I've found that if you slightly wet the line and the "gripping surface" (be it your thumb, a guard, rubber, leather, whatever), it helps some. Also, make sure the "gripping surface" is lifted completely free of the spool during the cast; don't hover over the line.


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

I will have to try that, I will take a bottle of water with me to dampen my thumb gaurd. I might be letting my thumb hover as well, I am all messed up. Well I hope the T-storms hold off till after dark that way I can get some practice in. I really think my biggest problem is trying to power the cast to early but evenything else is a factor as well. I will just try and put it all together when I get on the field. I care about distance but not as a long caster but as a fisherman. I am just practicing for the game.


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## tornasol (Nov 8, 2006)

*may be silly*

when I first try my new rod with a Daiwa 20 SHA, in the field I had some line freying, but it was impossible to me to fish, in a coastal run of small drums y had to look from the shore as people catched fish... whith the line wet I had continuous slips and it was impossible to me to throw the bait more than 50 m. The problem is that my hands are small and with a big plastic reel seat y had no leverage with my thumb. So I saw the reel seat, took it off and installed a flat aluminium rack type and all my problems where solved. Actually I fished all summer with it even without grips, for security I wrapped the the reel with a rubber band.
Sorry about my writing...:redface:


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*wetting the line actually*

makes it more likley to slip- may be true that it won't damage the line as long as the thumb guard is damp, but I practice over the water and the thumbguard gets wet after 5 or 6 casts. As soon as it gets wet the reel starts to slip- I keep a spare dry thumguard in the truck and switch them out when the first one becomes a problem.


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

Well the rain has passed with only a few sprinkles, after dinner and the wife leaves for work I am going to hit the field. I am not going to wet the line just dampen the guard.


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## chris storrs (Aug 25, 2005)

justinfisch01 said:


> just finished spooling both reels with some cheap line i found in the garage. Its heavier then i normally use (20lb) but it will do while I am trying to correct my form. I am really excited about getting back out there tomorrow. I did some practice in my family room(Lol) with half a rod just to try and correct my form and try what Tommy told me . Wish me luck guys. I'll post how I did hopefully I corrected the problem. Now one more thing, I am throwing a new OMCP heavy with 6 oz, do you think that, that is part of my problem: the rod not loading with only 6 oz. It like a telephone pole.


the rod can "load" with that weight no probelm....


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

*Thank You all....Problem fixed*

Ok just got back from my best practice ever. I took what all of you have contributed to my problem and put it into motion. I took two rods12' Tsunami H with a knobby 6501 C3 and a OMCP H with an 07 abu 6501 C3. I had blewup the new C3 on the Tsunami last time I was out but picked some of the backlash out b/c I was tired of wasting good line. about 2/3 full maybe a little less. I went through my form slow-mo first and then made a cast straight but maybe 70 yards, reeled it in and no line chaff! casted again a little further no chaff! Let on rip went of of the ballfield I was casting on and on to another field. 422 feet! I couldn't believe it. Casted again andran out of line. line broke from the spool. Went to collect the line andcheck for chaff and none. Picked up the OMCP which I thought I was having problems loading. Casted about 15 times right down the middle about 360 feet with a 6 oz tennis ball and 20 lb line ( got it cheapat walmart for practice). Still no chaff, no breakoffs, no blow up!!!!!!! Form is everything. I can't thank you all enough for the wisdom you have lent me. It was so frustating b/c I didn't know what I was doing wront. It had to bemetrying to put so much a$$ into it and the spool was slipping early. Also elavation is another key, before my cast were line drives now they have a nice arch to them. Can't wait to fish. I heard the peeperswhile I was out there and it wasa sign to hit SPSP this weekend rain or shine. Can't thank you all enough.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*cool*

 glad you got to the bottom of it.

Now go catch some fish !!


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Very good. Sounds like things are coming together nicely for you. 

Remember,

Don't come in too early with the power.
Look up on the hit for good elevation.

Tommy


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## Sandcrab (Mar 20, 2002)

*Just to make sure the guides are not the problem..*

Run an old stocking through your guides - they will catch on ANYTHING that is not smooth...

Sandcrab


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