# Levelwind vs. Conventional



## Muddmunkey94 (Oct 4, 2011)

How much difference is there in the casting distance between these two if everything else is equal?


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## cobia_slayer (Jan 9, 2008)

there could be a lot of difference, especially if one of those "equals" is a shock knot.


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## hokieboy (Jan 19, 2006)

yea the levelwind slows you down a bunch!!!


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## awesome guy (Nov 11, 2011)

minor difference in fishing situations.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Muddmunkey94 said:


> How much difference is there in the casting distance between these two if everything else is equal?


major difference. flirting with diaster when using a shock leader. 1 the knot is going to catch and blow the reel....2 if you keep the knot outside the line guide the shock leader becomes useless...you can build a CS reel to give great distance for about $60 or so but you will be limited to a #10-#12 line 2-3oz combo.


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## BLACK ADDER (Nov 15, 2006)

I had an OLD 6500 with a broken worm screw. Removed the levelwind, the levelwind cogs in the side plate and static magged her up. Cost: zip. Distance : Good!

BA

PS: I have been looking at the OMOTO Wavecaster 7000 on line. Any of you folk actually tried one of those? It is, of course, a Taiwanese knock-off of the ABU 7000, except it has Mag Control and the cost I saw was 109 bucks. I suspect it cannot be too far off the Chinese built ABU's, hmmmm?


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## Muddmunkey94 (Oct 4, 2011)

No shock leader will be used, main line is heavy enough, and this will be a strictly fishing reel. Im just trying to decide if it is worth the extra money for a few extra yards.


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

How far ya tryn to cast and how much weight ya gonna be throwning???

The correct shock knot will work on an Abu6500 and with a few tricks to the reel it will go a long way


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## cobia_slayer (Jan 9, 2008)

i think ultimately its going to be up to you, but personally I'd buy a non levelwind before i buy a levelwind if I'm strictly trying to get distance


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## Muddmunkey94 (Oct 4, 2011)

I'm not trying to throw it to England. Just over the sandbar. A good hundred yards or so. And prolly up to ten ounces plus bait


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

Yup, forget the levelwind, the standerd Conventional will be the ticket


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## SALTSHAKER (Dec 5, 2002)

The akios CSM 656 level wind will surprize you. The old level wind does not compare with this reel. Granted the shock knot can be a problem with a level wind but also with rods with small tips etc... but for basic casting compared to other reels.... akios will hand right in there..... salt


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## Muddmunkey94 (Oct 4, 2011)

SALTSHAKER said:


> The akios CSM 656 level wind will surprize you. The old level wind does not compare with this reel. Granted the shock knot can be a problem with a level wind but also with rods with small tips etc... but for basic casting compared to other reels.... akios will hand right in there..... salt


I already have a penn 975 that I was hopin to use instead of having to buy another reel. Would this one do the job?


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

if you are throwing anything more than 3oz you should be using a shock leader. i even use a #20 shock on my 3oz Pomp/Mullet rods with 10-12# line


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## Fish Hunter (Jul 31, 2002)

Mike built me a 5600 C5 with levelwind that I throw as far as I throw my 6500 mag elite ct. The 5600 has levelwind and he tweaked it well. I run 20lb braid on it and a 40lb shock leader. I have not had a problem with the knot, as I tie as small a knot as possible and throw up to 5 oz with the reel. Its been fished and thrown a lot and yet to have a problem.

One small trick was I did spread the levelwind guide just a bit.


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## bctom (May 25, 2007)

Have a pair of green cs mag elites that I use plugging out here for blue fin trevally. Use tapered shock leaders from the UK and have never had a problem. Throwing lures and plugs to a school of fish without a levelwind is difficult. Use mine only for lures.


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## Muddmunkey94 (Oct 4, 2011)

AbuMike said:


> if you are throwing anything more than 3oz you should be using a shock leader. i even use a #20 shock on my 3oz Pomp/Mullet rods with 10-12# line


The reel has 50# braid so not real concerned about a shock leader


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## RocknReds (Jun 13, 2010)

I have an Akios 656 levelwind and use 30# braid with no schock leader. It has the bearing levelwind conversion and the Sufix Braid breaks out around 45#. It throws just as far as the standard Akios 656 using 14# Sakuma and no levelwind. I was shocked at first, but on repeated comparisons it proved to factual. This levelwind dismissess all the old ideas about levelwinds.


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## HuskyMD (May 19, 2000)

I have various conventionals like a saltist, a 525 mag, and some abus. I also have some abu levelwinds that I've used from time to time. The levelwind is almost never an issue for 30 or 40 lb test leader. It would be a problem for 50 or 60 lb test shock leader. Distance wise, very little difference with distance. But I can only cast 100 yards to start with.


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## castingsfun (May 28, 2010)

My 2 cents
Excellent topic and I'd like to add what I noticed is the first thing that goes on these reels are the level-wind.


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## HuskyMD (May 19, 2000)

I forgot to add that i also have some levelwinds where I removed the levelwind portion and now use them as conventionals.


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## kingfish (Feb 28, 2004)

A conventional reel has a revolving spool, some have levelwinds some do not.


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## smacks fanatic (Oct 16, 2010)

with 10nbait, a level wind reel will suck. I mean suck. Get a diawa sealine, or 525 mag and use that.


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## smacks fanatic (Oct 16, 2010)

HuskyMD said:


> I forgot to add that i also have some levelwinds where I removed the levelwind portion and now use them as conventionals.


I have done that before and it was one of the best things i did to my 6500 abu. I can cast that thing far as heck, and it is smooth, if i clean it once and a while


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## Muddmunkey94 (Oct 4, 2011)

I guess a new reel is in my future.


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## BrentH (Jul 25, 2011)

Muddmunkey94 said:


> I guess a new reel is in my future.


What's wrong with the Penn? Just take the level wind off of it. Also, rip that braid off and put some 20lb mono on it. As it was stated above, if you're throwing more than a 2-3 ounces, you need a shock leader. Braid is strong, but all it takes is one fray in the line to send that piece of lead straight into someones head. One thing I've noticed about casting with braid, especially on the field, is that braid tends to fluctuate in size which in turn throws the balance off on the spool. I threw on the field once with braid, and when it did snap, the end of the line buried itself on the spool. Never again will I cast with braid.


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## Muddmunkey94 (Oct 4, 2011)

BrentH said:


> What's wrong with the Penn? Just take the level wind off of it. Also, rip that braid off and put some 20lb mono on it. As it was stated above, if you're throwing more than a 2-3 ounces, you need a shock leader. Braid is strong, but all it takes is one fray in the line to send that piece of lead straight into someones head. One thing I've noticed about casting with braid, especially on the field, is that braid tends to fluctuate in size which in turn throws the balance off on the spool. I threw on the field once with braid, and when it did snap, the end of the line buried itself on the spool. Never again will I cast with braid.


I'd like to keep the reel like it is. I'll still use it, just not for a surf casting reel. And when you said it would suck at 10nbait, what did you mean? The distance would be horrible or was it something else?


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## BrentH (Jul 25, 2011)

Muddmunkey94 said:


> I'd like to keep the reel like it is. I'll still use it, just not for a surf casting reel. And when you said it would suck at 10nbait, what did you mean? The distance would be horrible or was it something else?


It's up to you. You can either rip the level wind off or leave it on. It was someone else that said it would suck with 10&bait...most likely talking about the level wind going back and forth. I haven't gotten around to getting my own "quality" casting reel like an Avet, which I'll be picking up this winter/spring. On the field, I've been throwing my buddies Avets, Abus along with a POS Shakespeare tidewater 30l I ripped the level wind off of. I'm currently consistently throwing the Tidewater 120 yards on the field with 20lb mono & 50lb shock leader. I recently put bearings in place of the bushings on it as well but haven't casted it since then. I think the weight (10nbait) would be the hardest to throw making it suck depending on what blank you're throwing it with, but as long as the reel is adjusted accordingly, you shouldn't have a problem.


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## Muddmunkey94 (Oct 4, 2011)

So if the level wind is not moving during the cast, what are some other reasons besides distance not to use a level wind for surf casting?


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## BrentH (Jul 25, 2011)

Muddmunkey94 said:


> So if the level wind is not moving during the cast, what are some other reasons besides distance not to use a level wind for surf casting?


The level wind should move back and forth as the line comes off the spool.....it sounds like the level wind is either broken or bound up if it doesnt move...


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## Lynn P. (Sep 7, 2007)

Here's the deal, level wind = more friction--it will never outcast the same set up on the same reel, rod, etc. without level wind. The only folks I fish with are throwing level winds if throwing lures in a fishing bite but it not's going to throw same the distance without levelwind. I use level wind conventional when throwing lures,,,,,that's it.


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## BLACK ADDER (Nov 15, 2006)

Well, all very interesting. I also fish a 6500c3 with static mags and fish mono WITH A BRAID SHOCK LINE. I find this gets me through the levelwind much easier than MONO a MONO. I have broken a good heaver using a levelwind that had a shock knot stick, and the resulting force snapped her off. 
The comment made above about WIDENING THE LEVELWIND GUIDE might be worth a try, though. 
I took the levelwind off of my pair of Tica Reels because they could NOT handle shock line. Ah,well.... fishing is a learning game.

BA


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## big brother (May 15, 2002)

At the Primo Casting Event in Shallotte Big Lou from Texas had an antique Abu? that would split the level wind apart for casting and go back together for winding in. Maybe he will chime in. I had never seen anything like it.
charlie


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## smacks fanatic (Oct 16, 2010)

Muddmunkey94 said:


> I'd like to keep the reel like it is. I'll still use it, just not for a surf casting reel. And when you said it would suck at 10nbait, what did you mean? The distance would be horrible or was it something else?


since the weight of bait and sinker is so heavy, the bait will fly far, but the spool will be slow so that you get crappy distance, and possibly a BIG birdsnest(but I dont think your using ten and bait, are you?)


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## smacks fanatic (Oct 16, 2010)

BrentH said:


> It's up to you. You can either rip the level wind off or leave it on. It was someone else that said it would suck with 10&bait...most likely talking about the level wind going back and forth. I haven't gotten around to getting my own "quality" casting reel like an Avet, which I'll be picking up this winter/spring. On the field, I've been throwing my buddies Avets, Abus along with a POS Shakespeare tidewater 30l I ripped the level wind off of. I'm currently consistently throwing the Tidewater 120 yards on the field with 20lb mono & 50lb shock leader. I recently put bearings in place of the bushings on it as well but haven't casted it since then. I think the weight (10nbait) would be the hardest to throw making it suck depending on what blank you're throwing it with, but as long as the reel is adjusted accordingly, you shouldn't have a problem.


with a tidewater? Geez how are you doing that man?


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## jlentz (Sep 11, 2005)

big brother said:


> At the Primo Casting Event in Shallotte Big Lou from Texas had an antique Abu? that would split the level wind apart for casting and go back together for winding in. Maybe he will chime in. I had never seen anything like it.
> charlie


That would be the ABU Ultramag IV and the larger models. It is a cool feature. I have some that I would use to cast out baits if I was fishing with people who are not used to CT reels. Than they could reel it in with no problem and I would not have to worry about the next cast. 

John


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

big brother said:


> At the Primo Casting Event in Shallotte Big Lou from Texas had an antique Abu? that would split the level wind apart for casting and go back together for winding in. Maybe he will chime in. I had never seen anything like it.
> charlie


He brought that and gave it to me, thanks again Lou.  As it has been said, it is on the Abu Garcia Ultramag IV's on up. That particular one was a V. Splits open for the cast and the normal retrieve will pick it back up. Nice design, I love the novelty of it. For some reason it is now filed away as something that once was...

Robert


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

smacks fanatic said:


> with a tidewater? Geez how are you doing that man?


With a lot less effort than he was using when he first started showing up. 

It is all about technique. When Brent first started casting with me, he was giving it everything he had and, comparatively, not going anywhere fast. He has been learning some basic techniques and practicing them. Now, he is throwing that tidewater a measured 120yds with 150 gr/20lb test on a Cast Pro 11' 3-6. Refining technique coupled with a good rod, you can cast most reels surprisingly far. I am not trying to start up the equipment vs practice debate again, but suffice is to say, technique has paid off for Brent. I have measured him throwing various rods and reels with slack technique and with good technique for over a month now, he has proven to himself no matter what you are throwing, for the most part, knowing a little about how to throw will get it out there.

(Just a note, it was but a couple of weeks before he met me in the field for the first time that he actually threw a conventional on a surf rod for the first time. He proved to himself it was a lot easier once the reels are set up properly. Now he is throwing the mess out of an inexpensive conventional reel with NO cast control at all.)


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## BrentH (Jul 25, 2011)

thekingfeeder said:


> With a lot less effort than he was using when he first started showing up.
> 
> It is all about technique. When Brent first started casting with me, he was giving it everything he had and, comparatively, not going anywhere fast. He has been learning some basic techniques and practicing them. Now, he is throwing that tidewater a measured 120yds with 150 gr/20lb test on a Cast Pro 11' 3-6. Refining technique coupled with a good rod, you can cast most reels surprisingly far. I am not trying to start up the equipment vs practice debate again, but suffice is to say, technique has paid off for Brent. I have measured him throwing various rods and reels with slack technique and with good technique for over a month now, he has proven to himself no matter what you are throwing, for the most part, knowing a little about how to throw will get it out there.
> 
> (Just a note, it was but a couple of weeks before he met me in the field for the first time that he actually threw a conventional on a surf rod for the first time. He proved to himself it was a lot easier once the reels are set up properly. Now he is throwing the mess out of an inexpensive conventional reel with NO cast control at all.)


I aint slingin lead as far as you, but i would have never thought in a million years i could throw that reel 120 yards. Its "almost" as good as my white rod. LOL


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## BrentH (Jul 25, 2011)

smacks fanatic said:


> with a tidewater? Geez how are you doing that man?


It's a secret.


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## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

Widening the level wind line minder will mess up the lay of the line on the spool. It will not get to the edges like it is supposed too.


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## gonesurffishin (Feb 24, 2010)

if your looking for distance(not fishing) use non-levelwind & for fishing i like the levelwind cuz i can still get good distance & it's much easier to reel in plugs or lures. it just depends on what your using it for imho. thankz, ray


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## RocknReds (Jun 13, 2010)

Last week, Eric and I were out by the point casting the CPS 11' 3-6oz. He was using an Akios 656 with no level wind and I threw the levelwind. Both were throwing a top & bottom rig with a 5oz sinker. My distance was 152 yards and his was 156 yards. This is not much of a difference. If you're going to throw lures for sripers, big blues,drum,etc.-the levelwind is definetly the way to go.


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## ncsharkman (Mar 12, 2011)

Casting lures like hopkins or "gators" for blues etc..= levelwind, Bis azz fish like big drum,sharks etc.. throwing 8+ and bait= non levelwind!


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## Muddmunkey94 (Oct 4, 2011)

smacks fanatic said:


> since the weight of bait and sinker is so heavy, the bait will fly far, but the spool will be slow so that you get crappy distance, and possibly a BIG birdsnest(but I dont think your using ten and bait, are you?)


not every day but there are times at the south end of Hatteras when i would be throwing that much. Keeping my fingers crossed but so far I have not had a bird nest, but i haven't put alot of butt behind it. Just trying to get the technique down before i try to hit Africa.


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## FishWhisperer (Jan 18, 2012)

I have an Okuma classic pro level wind and it throws great! I think it just a regualr boat reel. I have 65 lb braid on it and I let her fly. Its mounted on a 7 ft lami and it good for 100 yards easy. If you are lookikng for distance, a sealine x is a good one and a reasonable price. They are very easy to cast too.


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