# Togging On The Morning Star



## catman (May 28, 2001)

Got an email from Monty saying he's tired of working on the boat and is ready to catch some tog. He's now scheduling tog trips for 3/11, 3/12, & 3/13. I'm booking a spot for Monday the 13th. Anyone care to join me. I'm thinking the weekend of the 11th & 12th is already filling up.


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## catman (May 28, 2001)

Just booked spot 25 for Monday.  Need some tog for the table and freezer. Got 2 filets left.


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

I may or may not be there this Monday....I will 
not say for sure because everytime that
I do, something comes up.....  

BUT... if I were to be there, then I would
probably be in spot number 24...that 
is...if I was going to be there....


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## SeaSalt (Apr 29, 2002)

Talapia said:


> I may or may not be there this Monday....I will
> not say for sure because everytime that
> I do, something comes up.....
> 
> ...


taplapia, sounds like you are a definite maybe...


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

Hello SeaSalt! After that "ego" check
I got on our last trip, I am definitely 
feeling the need for a little redemption
on our tog friends.


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## catman (May 28, 2001)

Hope you can make it T. Soon as I read Monty's email I jumjped right on it. Weather looks great for Monday.


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## LongIslandtoMD (May 8, 2005)

*not one to be left out*

Glad to see I am not the only one who was calling Monty this morning. Ill be out on Monday. I asked for my favorite spot, 25. no dice. okay, how about 24? no dice. hmmmm.... okay i guess i'll settle for 23. I am pretty sure monty's transducer is mounted up front near 7/8 or 13/14, but when the current starts moving, there is no place like the stern.

How do you know folks have spring fever? When you call to make a reservation first thing in the morning and spots are already reserved....

Now its time to watch the weather report and tie a few more snafu's.


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

LongIslandtoMD said:


> Glad to see I am not the only one who was calling Monty this morning. Ill be out on Monday. I asked for my favorite spot, 25. no dice. okay, how about 24? no dice. hmmmm.... okay i guess i'll settle for 23. I am pretty sure monty's transducer is mounted up front near 7/8 or 13/14, but when the current starts moving, there is no place like the stern.
> 
> How do you know folks have spring fever? When you call to make a reservation first thing in the morning and spots are already reserved....
> 
> Now its time to watch the weather report and tie a few more snafu's.


What you say spot 24 was already taken... How could that have 
possibly happened....


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## Fishbreath (Nov 11, 2004)

*Hmmmm....*

Have to check with the boss...oh WiiiFeeey....


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## LongIslandtoMD (May 8, 2005)

*Here is to sharing info*

All:
Like many, I think Rich Johnson (of "thefishingline") is a quasi yahoo, but he has a theory on sharing fishing information "there are no secret spots, no secret codes and we do not speak in secret languages trying to disguise where and what we fish". I couldnt agree more. 

For those of you who dont know me I am only a young guy, but if it weren't for old-timers (read: sharpies) I probably wouldnt know the first thing about fishing. So, with that said, I will share with the good P&S folks some of my fishing reading material.

Before going blackfishing I always re-read my blackfish bible. It is a compilation of information from sharpies on other boards (Talpae I know you have read this once or twice before). Keep in mind that I am not the author of the following information but thought that it would be helpful to most, as over the last few months I have seen that there are a number of folks who have questions about toggin'. The information was written with the NY angler in mind so the references to Sheepshead and 17fathoms have little value for the MD fisherman. 

Take my advice on this one. Cut and paste this stuff into Microsoft word, print it out and put it in a notebook

To the moderator's, if this is the wrong forum for this stuff, move as needed.

jp


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## LongIslandtoMD (May 8, 2005)

*Hermit Crabs & Tog Baits generally*

*Hermit Crabs in the Winter.......*

You do not want hermit crabs for winter blackfishing...hermits are a spring time bait since the fish are taking soft baits like skimmers, sandworms etc, which are their primary diet at that time of the year. If you ever see what blackfish pass from their bodies at this time of the year, the most common thing you see is broken/ground up shells from mussels and clams. These fish have moved in from offshore, where they have been laying around in a semi-doormant state due to the cooler bottom temps...their lips are soft, thus the use of 'soft baits'. As you get into May, you see the fish respond better to fiddler crabs, and calico crabs which are 'soft' unlike the hard baits, the green crab and stone crab. You can also tell when their are starting to switch over to crabs by checking their 'anal opening' which begins to open up, both from the warming bottom temps, but also since they are passing crabs parts like the legs. Once you get into December, the fish have moved out into deeper water, thus you want to use the stone crab. Greg "Ocean Eagle", his brother and myself started the use of the stone crabs for the fall and winter fishing here in Sheepshead Bay years ago. While everyone was catching the smaller fish on the green crabs, we would fish on the same wrecks, or rough bottom, and pull up mules to the disbelief of people on the party boats. If you fish the Ocean Eagle, ask Capt. Greg how many times we would knock out a boat fishing near us when we put the stone crabs down. They were hard to get but we trapped our own bait, or bought from the local dragger fleet. 
The bottom line, is when you start fishing the deeper waters around 80 feet and deeper, you want the hard crabs. Save the hermits for the spring time, when you are fishing the shallows in areas like Long Island sound. 

*TOG BAITS>>>*

No doubt that a hermit is a great tog bait, but we have always found that 1)they are a shallow water bait, that works best in the spring 2)do not work as well when you have heavy perch life on a wreck 3)are not the primary forage food for tautog once they move out into the deeper waters in the ocean. I thought about what you are trying to say, and right away i see your point. Yes a hermit crab works very well on the wrecks off and around Orient Pt. We do know that the area off the north fork is infested with hermits and green crabs, and that stone or white crabs prefer the ocean waters, instead of the sound water. But let me ask you this....if the current is roaring like it is usually when fishing those wrecks in the sound and the wind howling causing a nice sea, how many times are you going to miss a bite on a soft bait like a hermit, as compared to a stone crab? 
Listen i know from years of commercially fishing for tog from Mass to Virginia, that we rarely if ever used a hermit crab out in the deep. No one i know does either...whether its the economics of buying the hermits as compared to a bushel of white crabs i do not think, plays that much into this. Commercial tog fishing crews, want to catch many fish, and would definitly find a way to get hermits, if it were the best bait in the winter. But we know its not, so thats why the white crab is used. I have seen on nasty days when guys bring their hermits to use in the winter on those deep water wrecks and the boat is rocking, that these guys are swinging wildly at bites, and coming up with nothing. And as i always said, the longer you are out of the water or have no bait on your hook, the fewer fish you will catch. Put a white crab down on a snafu rig, and you will see that you will catch more fish, and have a shot at the biggest fish. Listen its not my opinion, but its what the top tog guys who fish commercially do. But you guys keep buying your hermits. Its give us white crab fishermen a better shot at winning the pool. Like i said earlier, use the hermits in the spring when they do make a big difference over other baits.


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## LongIslandtoMD (May 8, 2005)

*Tackle and other theories*

*TOG OUTFITS>>>>*

Sheepshead tog outfits...Years ago you would go over to Mikes and pick out these blanks... 

Fiddler fishing... Lami MB963M and cut tip slightly. 
Spring fishing... Lami MB1143F cut back to 11 tip and slightly off the bottom to suit the fishermen due to its length. 

Other options were the Mikes Special (inshore fiddler and great skimmer rod) and MB 1083M for early spring fishing down south off of Long Branch or in the channels. 

Fall fishing...mid depths, MB1143F with 11 tip or cut to 12 tip, or Shakespeare GBU 84 series. 

Winter fishing...MB1143F cut to 13 tip. Fenwick 1206 (especially when you knew their was a chance for cod) and MB1083M were also used. 

Reels, newell 220, 4 to 1 and 3.6 ratios for shallow water. Newell 229 as your all around tog reel. Fall fishing, newell 322. For fishing the deeper if using mono, the newell 332 and 338 were used, but the newell 322 with 50lb spectra is all you need. Other then a sidewinder, the newell was by far the best tog reel around. 

50lb power pro spectra, 4/0-5/0 gamakatsu octopus hook, and use either a 50lb or 60lb shock leader of 3 foot of trilene, ande or silver thread mono for abrasion resistance, especially when fishing reefs. Albright knot for connections. Tie hooks with both dupont stiff and softer perlon leader material depending on how the fish are biting, or make the traditional Montauk rig, where you make a dropper loop, cut one side of the loop and attach hook. Usually longer leaders when looking for bigger fish, but watch the current and shorten the leader when necessary if the rig keeps getting tangled on the line. Snafu with big crabs, but trim baits if the bite is picky....other then snafu rigs, use just one hook. Again cut crab legs if you are fishing areas with loads of current to prevent the bait from spinning. If using mono instead of spectra, their are only 3 lines to use: jinkai, momoi and silver thread. Use softer rods when using spectra, and don't stick like you are setting the hook into a tuna. Flat sinkers to prevent your rig from rolling around, but when fishing inshore, a bank sinker works fine when fishing on rocks. Double up the loop on the bottom and put the sinker through this loop. 

Best all around blackfish rig...MB1143F with 11 tip, with newell 220 3.6 and 50 
lb power pro. Years ago before their was spectra, Louie B, caught one of the 2 biggest blackfish seen in years, using 
a newell 220. Its more then enough reel for any of the blackfishing we do off Long Island.... 

*
NOTHING IS ABSOLUTE IN FISHING>>>>*

Thier are no absolutes in fishing, and blackish are one cagey fish. What would i use out on New Grounds or 17 if the bite was picky, which many times it is, later on in December? A trimmed white crab, or a small stone crab with its top shell cracked, and i will tell you why. I started out many years ago on the groundfloor of this live blackfish business. Myself and togmaster, have fished daily for these fish and their is always a competition to catch the most fish in the toughest conditions. Many times the bite shuts down, and the blackfish just push the baits...its a very hard bite to detect...so you end up standing their like a statue, concentrating on a bite. You stand 10-15 minutes, not swinging, just hoping for that slight pull. We have noticed that when you use a hermit, that the bites at these times are almost indetectable. SO you end up getting cleaned without knowing it, thus lessen your chance of catching a fish. At least with a stone/white crab, you know you got a bite, and have a idea if you have been cleaned out. I just cannot see buying hermits for fishing deep water on the south shore in the winter, when a white crab fishes as well. Yes, they work great up in the sound but thats slightly different fishing then we do here on the south shore...for the life of me, i cannot figure why a guy would want to fish a 20 oz piece of lead up in the sound late in the fall, when he can fish 4 to 6 ozs of lead on the Sandy Hook reef, and catch MORE and BIGGER FISH during the same time of the year!


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

Brian, I know you are out there reading 
this thread You going to make
this trip?


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## LongIslandtoMD (May 8, 2005)

*Random Thoughts, Stories, & Theories on Blackfishing*

This one might be a little harder to follow, but if you read between the lines, you will find alot of information....



*TOG EXPERIENCE>>>>*

i would definitly use a hermit crab if i had them, but when you start pushing depths over 90 feet, the white or stone crab will give you a better chance of hooking up more fish, and better quality fish. 

Togmaster brought up a very good point...it seems that there are noticeably less bergalls on our wrecks and rockpiles around Long Island waters over the past 15 years. Again this could be due to a number of factors, but, with less of these 'bait stealers' around now, it is much easier to use a hermit crab when fishing for tog. 

I have the greatest respect for Albertos fishing knowledge, and i listen and enjoy his advice and experience, that he gives out on the boards. He is that good. And Alberto we will get together, hopefully later on this year. along with Gamakatsu, and some of the other guys on the board. 

Getting back to advice, both myself and Togmaster came from down the Bay, and it is without a doubt, a place where information was not shared so freely. Many of you do not understand the bitterness of many of the pinhookers who fished here, when it came to blackfishing. At one time, many spots we take for granted today, were highly guarded secrets. Top crews like Donald/Red/Louie, Bobby S, Greg and myself, Togmaster and myself, were competing for spots along with the top 2 bottom fishing boats in the bay, the Pilot, and the Jet. Tackle and techniques became extremely refined, as the live blackfish trade started up in the 80s'. Sheepshead bay was the place to find the best tog fishermen on Long Island due to these factors. In a sense, this was not what we call 'play fishing' but highly organized commercial rod and reel crews. 
I had the benefit to fish with a commercial fishermen, Sal N, who was the first person from our area to fish off Woods Hole, and Buzzards bay in the late 70s'. I saw how good the blackfishing was. Yes, it was a turkey shoot in those days, and it was only a matter of just getting out and getting ontop of ANY ROCKPILE to catch fish. In the early 80s', i was fortunate enough to fish down south off Virginia with one of the top highline rod and reel sea bass fishermen, Joe Mizelle, and again saw even better blackfishing. I can say that i have seen blackfishing from the northern edge of their range to the southernmost edge, without any doubt, the biggest blackfish come from waters off Virginia. Alberto mentioned about how many IGFA records are held by fish caught in our waters here. Well i can tell you, that first, i have seen a pound trap blackfish of over 26lbs caught, and that the fishermen who brought it in, said that he sees fish this size a few times during the season in Virginia waters. I also know of a local pinhooker from up our area who moved down to Virginia to commercial fish, who has caught more fish over 20lbs on rod and reel, on known wrecks, then possibly anyone alive today. He does not weigh them up, and fill out a application to get IGFA recognizition. Their is also a wreck 64 miles due SE near the Virginia and North Carolina border that divers have gone down on, to see blackfish of upto 30lbs swimming around. I know of one fishermen, who came from New Jersey years ago, and runs his 23 Sea Craft off to this wreck to catch fish of over 20lbs. 
If one of these fishermen actually took the time to fill out the paperwork, every blackfish record on the books would be held by a fishermen from Virginia! 

Another thing that was raised was about my questioning the fishing in eastern Long Island sound and the use of extremely heavy sinkers to hold bottom. 
First fishing in this area from roughly Six Mile Reef, to Fishers Island, is highly specialized. It is unique since this is one of the few areas where you have to fish a 'window' in the tides. I have only seen one area with tides as strong, and thats at the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay off the Cape Henry wrecks. Vineyard Sound off the Elizabeth Island Chain comes close, but i have still found it fishable in a running tide. If you have no idea of how to fish the tides in this area for blackfish, then you better find something else to fish for. 
This might be the toughest area to catch blackfish in deep water from. Once the blackfish move off the beach, to waters of over 100 feet in November, their are only a handful of wrecks to pick from. With a handful of deep water wrecks like the Potato Barge, Berrateria, Thames, Hatchett Pt, City Services, and 2-3 relatively unknown large wrecks, theres' not much to pick from. And before captains from that area, start reaching for their Digitalis heart medicine for giving out such secret information, anyone can purchase any wreck publication from the Long Island fishermen, by Pete Barrett, and Tim Coleman, or go on the internet, and take a look at the AWOIS site, or pick up a Capt. Seagull chart to find the numbers to these spots. One thing that has happened with the advent and widespread use of the loran....their are very, very, few unknown spots, especially if they are large wrecks. Anyway to get back to my main point, is that with these handful of deepwater wrecks, and a small window in which to fish them, that as a captain, you have to race out to a spot, and hope you can put a catch together in that window, especially if their are a number of boats fishing that day. Choices are very limited, and if you don't put a good catch together on one spot, usually thats your day. I also perfer using lighter tackle for fishing for togs, then fishing with 16-20-24 ozs of lead, which requires beefier rods. Again, i really do not know of anyone who would prefer fishing with heavier tackle as compared to lighter tackle if you can choose between the two. As Togmaster mentioned, you can have much more enjoyement catching fish with 4-6 ozs of lead where you can feel the fight of the fish, without you having to fight both the fish and the one pound plus peice of lead! 

Another thing i wanted to mention, is that Togmaster gave a excellent explaination on spring blackfish and the possible reason why they take softbaits more readily. I guess if someone did a google search, and dug up some research papers on Wrasse, it would be interesting. Bottom line, is togs favor soft baits early in the seson. 

Finally to the fellow who emailed about my picks of top spots off Long Island. This is if you are looking for fish over 10lbs: 

Spring Blackfish...Rockaway Reef and the wrecks and rockpiles along the east beach. 

Fall Blackfish...By far the Sandy Hook reef...second choice would be the wrecks between the channels if you did not want to run that far south. North Shore...area around Six Mile Reef. 

Late fall and early winter...Southwest Ledge off of Block Island. Fishermen buoy area second choice. Western edge of 17. 

Winter...New Grounds/NE 17 fathoms/ Barges south of the BA' Buoy. 

Early Spring....Farms area and Long Branch, period. 

Best wreck...every wreck has its day! Whats a dog for most of the season, can turn into a kingpin overnight! 

Well i hope this clarifies a few things...even with all this information, you are only scratching the surface on what you really need to know to catch blackfish. Like i said earlier, their are no absolutes when it comes to tog fishing.......


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## LongIslandtoMD (May 8, 2005)

*For those with small crafts of their own*

If you are strictly a partyboat/headboat guy or gal, then this might not be terribly helpful for you. However, for those that fish with skilled captains (like Monty or Desi on the CQ) you will gain a new appreciation for their anchoring techniques.


*MORE ON BLACKFISHING>>>*

First, anchoring is skill that has to be practiced. The easiet way to get on a spot is to get a larger lobster pot bouy and tie a second, what we call 'hot dog' style bouy (the smaller rubber long fender buoys with holes on either end, are perfect) on one end. Drop the sash weight first, and let the weight hit the bottom, then toss the larger buoy over, then the hot dog last, which is connected by a 6 foot length of heavy mono. We use tarred lines which makes it easy to pull them up quickly, but remember the thicker the tarred line, the more resistance, and more weight needed on the bouy. To get the exact distance from sash to buoy, when the weight hits the bottom, hold it a moment and make a few hitches on the line (if you prefer, you can use a plastic jug which makes it very simple to put hitches into)....one of our secrets was to get plastic or copper ties, and put them under the tarred line....when the weight hit the bottom, you make a few twists in the ties, and you have your buoy exactly over the spot. Now what this set up does, is give you a idea of where the spot is, but also the way the tide is running off the first buoy. Now you run up from behind the hot dog, to set your anchor, since you get a pretty good visual idea of which direction your boat is going to lay. Their is always a debate on whether you should drop your buoy on top of the wreck or in front of the wreck. If the tide if roaring we always try to dump in front, since it seems the sash rolls into the hang. Their is no need to drop two separate buoys if you use this system. I remember one time with Gregg when fishing the Roxburry wreck, that we dumped 4 buoys, since each one dissapeared as quickly as we put them over with the roaring tide....finally we used a range off the beach, and just dropped the anchor and came back on the range which we should of done in the first place. As the tide slacked off, each buoy, depending on its size, popped up! Finally when number 4 popped, we made the move to grab them all since this looked pretty ridiculous. A few tips....make sure you rig both buoys the long way...i see guys do the opposite, and that just makes more resistance which can drag the buoy off the spot. Use as thin a tarred line as possible for your buoy line like i said previously....mono is not what i call user friendly buoy line. The best sash weights are not window sashes, but brake drums, and 5-10 weightlifting plates...they go down, and lay flat without rolling around. If the setup gets stuck in the hang, tie off on a cleat and pull it out. No big deal if you lose your sash. To measure depth quickly on your marker, grab the line and stretch it across your chest with each arm extended which gives us roughly 6 feet in length...this works for most people unless you are as small as Mini-Me. Large lobster buoys are good as markers, but act as magnets for other boats to run you down on a spot. Unless you have a real nasty day or extra sunny day were you lose site of your buoy, use as small and dull colored a buoy marker as possible. If you know land ranges, try to use these first to get onto a good spot. If you have a chartplotter or even better the Northstar 952XD, which is absolutely deadly for getting onto any little pimple, use its tracking function to draw you a line, after making one drift. Then run up the line ahead of your spot to drop the anchor. Strong currents like up in the eastern sound, or off jetties, make it tough to drop a marker buoy. This is the only time you want to use mono for your buoy, and make it a throw away marker, both sash and buoy. Grab ahold of it, and if you cannot bring it up, just cut the jug off. When you goto anchor, if using two anchors, always drop into the element which is stonger, either the tide or the wind. In strong currents of course drop your bigger anchor first, and let it run...then turn and run from 60-90 degrees with the line running almost along the side of the boat, and drop the second one....take in on number one, and adjust with anchor number two. Most wreck fishermen realize when using two anchors that it is easier to get onto a spot. But it leaves you to the mercy of the vultures who just get off on running people down. 
Usually when the tide is roaring, you can get away with one anchor, and thats why you see many boats on the east end that wreck fish carry one anchor. If you get one of those days where you have a flopping anchor line, due to the wind and tide, then you have to constantly make adjustments. Shorten the scope on the anchor to limit the swinging, and hope it does not skip into the hang. When reef fishing, buy or make a grapple with a trip on it...easy in, let line out, and easy out when you want to go. Use your loran to count off the tenths of a microsecond to measure you distance from the spot to where you drop your anchors...i know this requires some thinking, but you will learn that you have to run up 5-tenths to drop one anchor, or 8-tenths to drop your first of two in mid depth waters...and when you spread two no need to drop and go back to the spot, just swing the boat in the other direction for your second anchor then come back on them and make adjustments. I can remember when i made the last wreck trip with the Amberjack 5 to Nantucket, where it took them more then a half hour to get correctly ontop of the Republic, and Captain Jim and Vinny were experienced fishermen...no need to rush when you do this...getting a anchor line in a wheel is a pain and dangerous. And finally in roaring tide, let the anchor down first before you start backing down....sometimes, you have to pump the boat ahead to make sure that the anchor goes down right. You do not want a anchor that skips, or trips on the line. The only time i will come back hard is if i am hurry to get onto a spot with another boat coming down. And, if you do not want to do all of the above to get onto a spot, just get behind any party boat, or boat that is anchored, using your compass, that device with numbers on it, to give you a idea on how you are sitting. Its funny sometimes, in the morning to have the VHF radio on, and hearing experienced wreck fishing captains, asking what compass direction the other captains party boat is laying....it is more common then you think!~ 

Fishing in the western sound was always good. I used to make many trips up to Port Jefferson and fish the Ace with Roy Cash, and i fished out of City Island, which used to hold some brusier fish on rockpiles like Big Tom, which was just a stones throw from the row boat station...In Sheepshead Bay it was known that the size of fish caught up in the western sound was always better then what we had on the south shore. You could fish any party boat in the 
western sound in the fall and winter, and see a consistent cull of fish from 7-12lbs, which was definitly better then what we saw in Sheepshead Bay till the fish would move off to 17. Then during the late 80s to early 90s' the fishing in the western part of the sound went into the crapper. And i will tell you why. At that time their were a number of lobster gangs who fished this area from City Island on east. Competition became so fierce that thousands of pots littered the sound. But the lobsters became smaller and more fished out. Lobster boats started targeting blackfish with fish pots and in their lobster traps. Blackfish became pretty lean all over the sound. 
Then strangely the blackfish returned due to a strange and unrelated event... 
the spraying to kill off the mosquitos that carried the west nile virus. Well it ended up that it killed basically, all the lobsters in the sound, putting many lobsterman out of business. Thus with less lobster pots and fish traps in the water the blackfishing has returned. I remember when at the height of the lobster fishing in the sound, that Capt Cash of the Ace would have a heck of a time anchoring around Mt. Misery with all the gear in the water. I used to make many trips with him especially in the spring, where i proceeded to win 4 pools in a row, by using hermits! I made a last trip with him when the fishing was getting pretty lousy, and he would run off for some stripers to keep things interesting during blackfish season. We then anchored on a spot and caught a handful of fish. He then brought up his anchor to move the boat, and he had a fish pot and line tangled in his anchor. I helped removed the gear and brought the pot onboard, and found 3 large, emaciated blackfish, that if they were healthy would of been fish from 12 plus to 10. They must of been sitting in that ghost gear for months ontill we pulled the trap up. Roy told me to toss those fish back which i did....they were in such a weakened state, that they could not get down to the bottom, and were easy prey for the seagulls who swooped them on them. Roy said this was pretty common around here, with lobster guys losing or cutting others guys gear... this was in the late 80s'. I have not been back to fish up in the western sound since that time. 

Well it seems that i have written a small book here...much of this information you have never seen written about so at least it should make for some interesting reading on the first pass. If you want to see some of the best blackfishing, go out with Capt. Gregg and the Ocean Eagle. Hes the best, and i do not say that without knowing a little about the blackfish business. Watch what he does, and this will help you understand, both how to fish, and where to fish in the bight....


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## LongIslandtoMD (May 8, 2005)

*Continued Stories and the like*

*BLACKFISH< ETC>>>>>*

I have never heard any fishermen talk about lip wrestling or locking of blackfish. Nor would i think any blackfishermen really care about this when it comes to catching fish..i know certain species like the chiclidae, engage in this 'ritual'. It seems you done a little research on this, which has enlightened us on the subject of lip locking. But i doubt knowing anything about lip locking blackfish, will help improve anyones catch of blackfish. 

I do not know why the sky is blue, or the water is green, and that the moon looks white at night to me. But by observing what others have done before me, and learning from some pretty sharp fishermen, i know that very early in the season, the blackfish prefer skimmers above any other bait...then when they get into the shallows off the beaches, they will also eat sandworms....then as the waters warm in May, they start eating calicos crabs which are a shallow water crab. They will also take fiddlers and hermits, because they are also shallow water soft crabs. That does not mean they will not take skimmers, which of course they will, but if you want bigger fish, you grab those calicos and hermits for bigger fish, and if you want to catch many fish, fiddlers. This is the game plan that any pin hooking crew would follow. When Gregg and myself fished with our crew, we would bring out in the spring, calicos, skimmers, both fresh and salted, a box of fiddlers, and if we had hermits, that too! We covered all the bases, and i can tell you why. This is something that no one talks about, but is the best tip that i will ever get on the subject. When you get to a spot, in the spring when the fish are on the beach, the first thing you want to do, is try and start the fish taking the calicos....but sometimes the fish are sluggish and you get few bites, so you put down the skimmers after awhile so that you get the smaller blackfish to start biting. Then some fiddler crabs..then you stop using the skimmers after you built up the life and go back to the calicos, and try to get whatever big blackfish are on the spot. And we do this throughout the day, working different drops...if we see this pattern working we stick with it. Blackfish turn on and off, to different phases of the moon, and different wind directions. You can have a lousy bite all day, then in the afternoon as the southwest wind wips up, these fish bite their heads off. 

I remember Gregg and myself started to fish together, no one used the calico for spring fishing except George OConnor, the old captain who owned the White Chin, and Bobby S who i used to fish with years before. Greggs brother Geoff, went off to Penny beach and got a cooler full of calicos which we kept on ice...now not directly on ice, but by putting ice on the bottom, then using newspaper to separate the calicos from the fresh water. Well we fished all day and had a meager catch of 150lbs or so, and we went to one last spot, the Arm Eater off of Sandy Hook. It is such a small drop, since only, the boilers remain that you literally had to split a microsecond to find the drop...anyway we anchor and we read life around the spot, but figure it was stripers or porgies....we fished with the regular baits and caught nothing. I told Gregg that i was going to lay down, but before that, Gregg asked for a calico. He dropped it over, and yells, wow what a bite. He comes up and rebaits, drops down, and bang pulls a 7lb fish up. His brother says he saw a follow up. Everybody starts to put calicos on, and we start to beat on these fish like on ones business...but as we start cranking up these mule size blackfish, the other blackfish start following the hooked fished up from the bottom. Finally Geoff grabs a net, and scoops a big fish up that is near the surface. Then he loses another fish with the net when it pops out from being scooped. And then we see something that is freaky....a blackfish that probably weights about 10 lbs jumps over the anchor line. We doubled our catch in that hour, and then Jackie Taint fishing in the corner all by himself, who passed away a few years ago, hooks the biggest fish of the day only to lose it. And then that was it...the wreck shut down. We have seen spots just turn off, but nothing like this. Well i can say, that from that day on we always used calicos, and were responsible for showing other fishermen that this was the bait to use in the spring. 

Now Opinari, no one really cares WHY the blackfishes lips are soft...We surmize and say that they are soft, because we see that they prefer soft baits in the spring....but we have also seen fish in the spring take green crabs off the Fishermen bouy after having a warm winter. Its like knowing that a stove is hot, and you will not touch it, because you will burn yourself. Does it have to be explained that when you heat up a stove, that you should not touch it without a pot holder or towel? Sometimes, knowing all the details is information overload for some people. So why do blackfish prefer soft baits in the spring? BECAUSE THEY DO!


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## LongIslandtoMD (May 8, 2005)

*Fish Pots and other Management Issues*

*FISH POTS & ROLLER GEAR>>*

Boy, if you want to wind me up on a fishery issue, its the use of gear types that can destroy a fishery. I remember when fish pots came into this area during the 80s. It started with the Belford fleet, one or two lobster guys who will not be mentioned here, who littered the blackside, and A and B buoy off of Sandy Hook with gear....they eventually spread all the way across the tin can, east to the Breezy Point Jetty, and north up to the lower harbor past the Verrazanno Narrows Bridge. This was just one thing we saw at that time...Then stern draggers, again from Belford bought roller and rock hopper gear, and just ruined all the bottom on the Tin Can, Scotland, Fishermen Bouy, Blackside of the hook and the A & B Bouy area, Sea Bright and Long Branch. We started to wonder, when we went to pieces in these areas, why we would not get hung up anymore. Never lose a rig on some of our small hangs that used to hold fish. Then we were hearing about spots dissapearing, which of course is what happens when roller gear constantly goes over rough bottom...the rock hopper boat continually roll over bottom to smooth it out, ontill it has no relief at all. I can tell you that a big wreck that WAS off of Sandy Hook on the 715 line, that was as big as a giant dry dock, was eventually knocked down...this spot used to support a number of party boats out of the bay...i remember that the Pilot II used to be able to fish that spot for half the day in October and pull fish. Another spot, what we called the Busted Lumps which is located on the northern portion of the Fishermen Buoy Area, was one of our all time favorite spots because of the consistent quality of fish from 3-7lbs caught there. It was what we called a 'one drop spot". The roller gear boats wiped this spot out to where it comes only a foot or two off the bottom. We had nice little spots on the Tin Can which would give up a number of nice sea bass during the summer....we would hop from one spot to another, putting a nice catch of sea bass together, just a short distance off Coney Island. No more. If you knew the amount of poundage in blackfish and seabass that these guys caught, you would fall off you chairs. Thats why i tell you guys on the board, that its not the guys catching a few hundred pounds of fish, fishing rod and reel, that are destroying the bottom fish fishery. It was the pots and roller gear boats which were taking thousands of lbs per day! What this eventually did was wipe out our spring fishery in the bight. Thats why as Togmaster alluded to in his post, that the fall fishery in the NY Bight, is the result of blackfish that migrate from Northern Virginia, Maryland, Delaware and southern New Jersey waters, because they have found the waters in this area much more to their liking. If it was not for these blackfish migrating north during the summer, our fall blackfishing would be as poor as it is in the spring. 

Fish Pots are a very effective gear type, without question. They fish 24 hours, need little maintenance, and make it very easy for a small commercial boat to put together impressive poundage catches. Down off Virginia, fish pot boats are literally wiping out the amount of sea bass in those waters. In Mass. waters they now take such a disproportionate amount of the total seabass quota for the quarter, that commercial seabass fishermen in Virginia have barely a 2 week season some quarters. Florida realized how devastating fishvpot gear is, and banned them for their waters. 

Like i said, if you really want to do something to improve the fishery, get on your legislators to introduce legislation to ban both fish pots and roller and rock hopper gear. This is the greatest threat to our bottom fishery here in the northeast..... 

*MORE ON FISH POTS>>>*

Gamakatsu, brings up a big point that i failed to mention. Unlike other commercial fishing methods, where the gear has to be worked over productive areas, fish pots will catch fish even on some of the least productive pieces of bottom. But, interesting, the fish pots find the more productive bottom over time, very quickly...A fishermen can use the fish pot to find the most productive pieces of bottom by laying out their gear in simple "L" shaped patterns without knowing much about the area, and produce some big catches. What commercial potters in Virginia would do was drop their gear using this technique, and see which end of their string is more productive. Then they would lay out their gear again, from that point, and again see where their traps poduced the most poundage. What this eventually did, was that the potters found these little 'stickups', hangs and small wrecks that no one ever fished. They would surround these productive patches with the gear, using the spot as a kill zone. And what it actually did, was just ruin the piece. One potting operation even had divers who would tie the pots onto the wrecks. Talk about cleaning out a piece of bottom very efficiently, and rendering the wreck useless to all rod and reel fishermen! But what was more disturbing, is that unlike commercial rod and reel fishermen, who always shipped a better quality fish, and whose overall size of fish brought in was always much larger, fish pots caught a overwhelming smaller grade of fish, which ment that the potter would have to catch more fish to be profitable. While a commercial rod and reel catch would break down as follows, 40-60% jumbo, 20-45% large, and 5-15% medium, a potters catch would be 20-50% small, 25-50% medium, 15-30% large, and 5-20% jumbo. Notice the big difference if two boats, one rod and reel and one a fish pot boat, would each bring in 10 boxes of fish. The rod and reel boat would have been paid almost double for his fish, as compared to the potter who had a smaller grade which does not pay as high on the market. 
Why? When a commercial pin hooker goes to one of his cherry hangs, the biggest seabass get hooked up, when you drop on it. Then the grade gets smaller as you pull fish off the piece, ontill you start seeing smaller fish, which you toss back, and then move onto your next hang. Their are a number reasons why a rod and reel commercial fishermen will move when he starts seeing those smaller fish. First, leaving fish on a piece, ensures that it is not a barren piece of bottom...the old adage of fish attracting other fish is very true when bottom fishing. Second, its a time issue for the rod and reel commercial fishermen, who wants to bring in the largest grade of fish which has the highest price per piece, which means you want to cull the largest grade off your hangs during a day trip. Third, many small commercial rod and reel boats, have limited room to hold fish and ice. No reason to use up valuable space, and your ice on small fish. Fourth, is that you do not want to ruin your cherry pieces. Experienced rod and reel commercial fishermen, know certain spots are good for a certain amount of boxes off their pieces. Virgin seabass spots can be good for upto 10 boxes or more when they are first found. Then by fishing these cherry hangs, you consistently see anywhere of 3 boxes to 6 boxes come up from these pieces everytime you go to them at different times of the season. So you never pound a piece to the point where it is barren. 
Fifth, commercial rod and reel fishermen, make their fishing even more 'selective' by using bigger hooks then the average fishermen would use. Hook sizes of 6/0 and 7/0 ensure that many small fish cannot take the bait and get hooked. 

Now seabass pot fishermen dump their gear with something as simple as a white styrofoam cup hanging in the pot. Their gear soaks, for maybe a day or two, and even longer, especially when their are storms, and high seas which makes it extremely hard to pull your gear. So the fish can sit in the pot for upto a week, and with warm water, lose their brillant color. We always knew just by looking through the fish boxes at my friends wholesale fish shop, which fish were 'pot' fish. Rod and reel fish would always look like 'diamonds' since they were immediately put on ice once caught, while pot fish tended to have a duller whitish color on the seabass. But what is even more disturbing, is that now due to trip limits placed on commercial fishing boats, the potters, will toss back the smaller seabass to bring into the dock a larger, more profitable sized fish. The amount of 'discard' is high because of this, and is not quoted against the quota, because no one actually knows how many lbs of small sea bass are discarded. This is a waste of the resource. And what really will turn you stomachs, is that when a quarter is closed, some pot fishermen, will let their gear soak, so thats its constantly fishing. When the next quarter is opened, they go out, pull their gear, dump a hugh amount of dead fish which have been sitting in their pots and cannot be kept since they are rotten, and be the first to get in, to get the highest prices on their seabass because their will be no seabass on the market at the opening of a new quota. Not only do the fish pot fishermen depress the price on the market for the rod and reel fishermen, they kill more fish then is necessary to maintain the seabass market. 

Ive tried to make this as short winded as possible. Their is much more to the fish pot issue, that no magazine or 
other medium wants to get into, to educate the fishermen on what is going on with the resource. Wreck and bottom fishing has become much easier due to electronics, and information that is available today. If you understand what you can do to ensure that the resource returns to levels that we saw years before the foreign fleets and the advent of Loran C, then i know i have done some productive typing here. The bottom line is to know where the fight is, and that not all commercial fishermen are destroying the resource.


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## LongIslandtoMD (May 8, 2005)

*More on management but still helpful*

MORE ABOUT BLACKFISHING>>>

Kilsong, you bring up something i posted about before, and it was how we saw the roller gear boats, starting to work the areas from Deal all the way up to Ambrose Channel in the mid 80s'. Interesting though, that the handful of blackfishing rod and reel crews felt, that fish pots were much more a threat to the fishery at that time. I kept complaining to Tony Delernia who just got on the council at that time, so that he finally invited me to make a statement on the impact of fish pots on the blackfish fishery. Myself, Bobby Singer, Capt. Fagan, and another Jersey party boat captain were the only people to show up for this NMFS meeting at the world trade center. I got to speak 'after' they discussed more important issues like Amendment 5, Mackeral JV (Joint Venture), and other more pressing fishery issues. Honestly, no one really cared about the black fish or what was going on with the fishery at this meeting. I remember Jerry Hill making a comment about the price of blackfish being equivalent to the price of jelly fish! Thats how cheap dead blackfish was at the Fulton Market during those years. 

During the mid 80s', the small boat commercial dragger fishermen from our area were being displaced from a collapsing inshore whiting fishery. Summer fluke dragging was not as profitable as it was in the past, which made it harder for these boats to make a living. Other commercial fisheries like the local codfishing was drying up pretty quickly by this time, and inshore scup dragging was a thing of the past. A few commercial boats out of Belford saw a opportunity in roller gearing for the emerging live blackfish market. They invested in 'roller gear' which is somewhat and slightly different from the traditional gear they used for dragging for whiting. To simplfy the difference in roller and rockhopping gear, which in many places the terms are used interchangeably, roller gear, has these little cutout rubber black donuts which are a few inches in circumference, that are placed below or along the sweep (bottom part of the net). What these donuts do, is that they allow or lessen the chance of the net getting hung up on a piece of bottom, by allowing the mouth of the net to roll over the hang. Rockhopper gear, which was more commonly used off of Georges Bank and in the Gulf of Maine, consist of gear that has larger donuts, that can be as big as tires. It is designed to go over large rocks, and wrecks, and prevent the gear from getting hung up. The rockhopping gear when being dragged, actually crawls over the wreck due to these very large donuts or tires. Even with these rollers, this type of gear still get hung up. Sometimes, the 'doors' themselves, which are very heavy flat wooden or steel (depending on the type you bought) objects that allow the net to open up, get hung up. And even though this gear is designed to 'roll over' the bottom, the nets themselves get torn up, sometimes after every trip depending on the area where it is being worked. But even with the cost and time in sewing up a net, replacing the sweep, or buying a new door (which is expensive), commercial boats made the investment since this was a very profitable fishery due to the price paid for live blackfish and seabass. 

What the roller gear did to areas like the forementioned Snake, was to tear up and eventually flatten out the bottom to the point where the gear would not get hung up. A roller gear dragger would set his tow around productive rocky areas, so he would start it either from the north or south, say the north end being Scotland Ridge, and the south end being Long Branch. He would have his hangs programmed into a chart plotter, and make his tows over the rocky bottom and around the larger wrecks. After time, he might move over a tenth over a microsecond (50 feet) to get either closer to the hang or ontop of it. Eventually the rolling over the hang smooths it to the point where the boat does not bounce over it or tears up on it. Draggerman will consistently use the same tows during a season. A tow is not something that is done haphazardly! Eventually during the fall, a roller gear boat might start in the channels, move off Scotland and the Fishermen bouy and south to Elberon, and end up off of New Grounds and 17 by the winter! 

Let me tell you about the area called the Rattlesnake. This is a big piece of bottom that is considered the futhermost point off inshore Sea Bright New Jersey in approx. 60-65 feet of water. In the late fall the snake being the last large piece of rocky bottom before we get off to the west side of 17 fathoms, acts as a staging area for the blackfish. Between the snake and traveling east to the west side of 17, it is basically flat open bottom, thus making the snake the last inshore rough piece of bottom for the blackfish to setup on, before moving off to their winter grounds. During late October and early November, the snake was considered a kingpin spot, where a few party boats could fish half the day and put a very good catch together of fish from 1 lb to 8lbs. The Pilot, Elsie, Dorothy B, and the Jersey Boats, along with the small boat fleet, would all try to fish this piece of bottom since it was such a productive area. The snake was so sticky that it was not unusual to drop your sinker down, and then lift and become hung up. The snake would give up hundreds of fish daily during the season for many boats. 
Well after a few years of roller gearing, the snake is pretty smooth now 
and not as productive as it was in the past. It goes to show you that even such a nasty piece of bottom like the snake can be smoothed out over time by roller gear. 

Along with smoothing out the rocky bottom, the roller gear tears off, crushes and destroys the mussels, sea anemonies and sea grass, which cling to the rocks, and allow small crabs and other sealife to survive. What the roller gear did was create, lifeless rough bottom. Sea Bright was one of the few areas which had northern coral. How much was destroyed, who knows. Along with the snake, just north, the Scotland Grounds had the same thing happen to it. Many years ago, Gregg and myself while looking for a wreck, found a little virgin rock area off of Scotland, which we called the Honey Hole. This spot was better then any wreck we have had ever seen. In the fall we could go there, drop a crab down, hit bottom, lift up, and you would have a fish. It was a incredible piece. We figured that everyone ran off to fish the wreck which was pretty close, ignoring this little piece of productive bottom. Years later when Gregg ran his party boat, the Ocean Eagle, he called me and said that the Honey Hole had no relief (did not come up), and was pretty dead, which we never saw in the past. We knew what did the damage, but what could you do. Now its a spot that we ignore when we fish in the fall. This due to roller gear!


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## LongIslandtoMD (May 8, 2005)

*Crab talk*

Quiknet you want to know about the difference between a stone and white crab. First, we divide the crabs into two types, the swimmers which have paddles, and the crawlers. The calico and blueclaw, are the swimmers, while the green, white, stone, and hermit, the crawlers. Swimmer crabs, have to be handled very carefully when you catch them since they are more delicate to keep alive for future use. They are noticeably more aggressive when you trap them and have to be prepaired for safekeeping. The crawlers on the other hand, can be stored relatively easily and can be kept in a nylon bag for months at a time as long as you feed them. We catch the crabs by using fish baskets. They can be purchased from mail order houses like Memphis net. You set them up with fishing twine, that can be ordered from the same company. Now go into shoal waters around jetties or along beaches in depths from 7-15 foot of water. People use bunker to catch crabs, but we have found something better and that does not cost you a cent. But this is something you have to figure out on your own! 
Drop a few over the side, let them soak, and after a few minutes start hauling them in, one basket at a time, pull them up slow and steady. Now this is where you need to make the distinction between the swimmers and crawling type crabs. When you catch swimming crabs, you should declaw them right away, so that do not kill each other when kept together in a bucket or fish basket. It also makes it much safer when you reach in later on to grab a crab to fish with! Crawlers are just tossed into the basket, and kept separate. Along our shores in the NY Bight, we catch stones, whites, and calicos with a handful of greens. Up off the northshore and out east, you will catch much more green crabs. Hermits are always a occassional bycatch depending on the area where you put your basket down. To store your crabs, the swimmers, we prefer wooden fish/lobster boxes, that remain half in half out of the water. This is the only way to keep the swimming crabs alive for a couple of days. You must check your crab basket at least every other day. Usually the dead and rotten crabs will be floating on top...toss them out. Crawlers are kept in nylon bags, and can be tied to the dock hidden under the water. Never sink the bags into the mud though! If you want to keep crawling crabs alive for a few months, just toss a small fish rack or fish discards into the bag, or the crabs will start eating each other. Fiddlers are kept in a nylon bag, that is kept half in half out of the water. Fresh dead swimming crabs are kept on ice for a day, then discarded. Hermits are kept in a cooler on top of ice, again, separated by cardboard or newspaper from the fresh water. 

Now the difference between a stone and white crab has been debated by many of the fishermen who catch them. We differentiate the stone from the white crab by its size, even though they may be the same crab. A small white crab is called a stone, and when they get big, because of their white belly, called a white crab. Maybe they are different crabs, and we do not know about it, but if you use the above terminology, at least we have a idea of what you are talking about! 

One thing about catching crabs...of course you toss back all egg bearing female crabs of any species. Second, i believe you need a license from the DEC if you want to keep more then 50. Be careful, even though calicos and whites are not the most popular table fare when compared to our local favorite the blueclaw, you can be summonsed for having shrimp baskets full of these critters even though you intend to use 
them for bait. 

Finally on the conch for blackfish bait. We have found it to be a fair bait during cold water fishing. I must say i have seen it catch some nice fish in January and February, when you had a shot of possible catching a cod. If it 
was used in the late fall and 
winter fishing, its primarily purpose was when you had ferocious perch life on a piece just tearing up your crabs, when you have a picky blackfish bite. It was not a bait that would slay the fish, so we never made any attempts to bring it along. If you are fishing deep water and having trouble feeling bites or have a very picky bite, then the conch makes sense to use as a bait, since at least you have something left 
on the hook when you miss a few bites. 
Some party boats would bring it along, to perserve the amount of crabs they had aboard, especially during the winter when green crabs are tough to come by since it is a much easier bait to fish with for novice blackfishermen. Unless you know of a draggerman who can get you some, i would not kill myself for use as a blackfish bait. If anything, you rather bring those conchs home, and put make them into a nice salad! 

Well i hope this clarifies a couple of things on catching bait and give you a slight idea on what roller gear is and what it does. Good luck, and i hope you enjoy catching blackfish as much as i did in the past.


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## LongIslandtoMD (May 8, 2005)

*It continues*

*GLAD YOU ENJOYED IT>>>>*

Virginia, by far has the best tog fishery on the east coast. The problem is that their is no direct party boat fishery for them. You can find a few boats fishing for croaker or spots out of Lynnhaven, but nothing for tog. Also the charter fleet, books primarily offshore trips for tuna, jacks, king mackeral, etc. One of the best, who may not be around anymore, was Pete Ambrose, who ran a charter, which caught the world record blackfish many years ago. Pete, was known as a top wire line fluke fishermen in Chesapeake Bay. Later on he moved up to Wachapreague Virginia and ran his charter boat out of that small eastern shore port. Gabe Kovacs who used to own the K-2 which is now down in Florida was one of the few who reguarly fished tog out of Rudee Inlet. I enjoyed fishing with him since he was a true gentlemen who was always willing to teach and talk about things many other captains would not discuss with their customers about fishing in that area. Another was Linwood Martins, who owned the Judith M. Myself and Togmaster would commercial fish with this fellow over the fall and early winter, and he would put us onto some nice togs after filling his fish box up with jumbo seabass....he always would tell us that he held a line class record for many years, catching a 20lb tog off the Chesapeake Light tower. He got killed a few years ago, while taking flying lessons. Their is a party boat out of Rudee which does offshore seabass and tog trips, in the winter. They primarily run out to the Triangle wreck area, which is only 32 miles from the inlet. You used to see some super fishing on these trips, but i would not expect anything spectacular nowadays. I do remember years ago we came in one time with our catch of bulldog tog, to be officially weighted in at their fishing station, and they got pretty upset when, their new Lydia Party boat came in, and their customers walked off their boat holding in plastic fruit bags, small to medium seabass. That was the last time we would go down their to weigh a fish in for a Virginia state trophy fishing plaque! The only people who take advantage of that fine fishery, are the few Yankees like ourselves, who go down there and fish with one of the commercial seabass pinhook boats. Unless you are friends with these people, you are pretty much stuck to fishing on the local party boats for small bottom fish in the Bay. 

I got a email from a fellow who asked why Sheepshead Bay, unlike other Long Island ports, was such a innovative place as far as fishing techniques. I can boil it down to one thing. Every pinhooker here was in competition with each other to be known as the best fishermen in this area. Every guy tried to find something that would give him the advantage over the next guy. How many boxes of fish you brought in was measured against another boats catch. And the handful of true sharpies would always be packing out the most fish everyday during the season. Of course it started with striped bass, where new lures and methods were being tweaked over the 60s' and early 70s'. Everyone knew who the top striped bass fishermen from the bay, and that was never disputed anywhere. But other fisheries saw some pretty sharp pinhookers that were not too well known once you got out of the bay. To give one example, i was very fortuntate to know, fish and have as a friend a fellow named Sudsy. He was a commercial fishermen, who fished with Phil Ruhle for swordfish in the days when they harpooned swords up north, and later worked for Carl Forsberg out in Montauk in the 60s. He was a great believer in 'watching the signs', whenever you went out and fished. He was as scientific a fishermen i have ever met, and always said that you never leave nothing to chance. He always impressed on me to watch the way the best fishermen caught fish, and try to copy what they were doing. Anyway, Sudsy was the Scup king from Sheepshead Bay. He was the first from our area to go up north and fish for porgies out of Buzzards Bay back in the 70s. He refined his techniques and tackle to the point were no one i know would outfish him. I tried, and over many years, never did. To tell you how far he went in refining his tackle, over a number of years, we tried, about 20 different types of Mustad hooks, to find which one was the best hooking and holding hook. The standard hook was the sproat #3399, which was a pretty good hook, But when fishing up north in the Cape or at Montauk, we would hook big seabass and blackfish, and many times would lose them to the hook opening up due to the spring wire, the hook was made out of. We tried all the beak hooks, which we found not to be the best as far as hooking fish, and because the tips would break off or dull after catching a number of big fish. We tried the older black sproats, #3909 hooks which were super sharp and much stronger then the bronzed 3399 hooks. Problem was that they were fazed out by Mustad at that time, and were almost impossible to find. We would get a box or two out of Billy Hooks who was the main fish hook supplier out of the bay, but we would go through them very quickly. Along with trying various limericks, small o'shaunessys, and kirby style hooks, each having more disadvantages then the standard sproats, we accidently ran across one. It was a hook that was actually designed for fly tying. It was the Viking hook. It was a simple designed bronzed hook, with a perfectly round bend, that was forged for strength. I cannot tell you how many fish we would catch on these hooks over the years. And how many big blackfish we could now bring in, since this was a hook that was much stronger then the reguarly bronzed sproats we used over the years. It was a hook that would fish great all day, without opening up, dulling or getting bent out of shape. Well two weeks ago i ran a friends boat, and we fished a old time spot out on the east beach. I had anchored up and caught a number of nice porgies, many over a lb, when i hooked into something, that bent my rod like a noodle. While my buddy Freddy looked for a net, i fought this fish for a minute or two, up and down, with the fish pulling line like a big bulldog blackfish. Well when it got close to the surface, i looked down, and saw the aqua-black color of a big knothead seabass. Well Freddy scooped it in, and i was somewhat surprised at the size of the fish...it was later weighed in at 4.5lbs which i must say is a pretty decent inshore size black sea bass . Now what does this have to do with the hook story. Well i caught this fish on a number 2 Viking hook. I remembered back years ago, how we looked for a small hook that fished so well for porgies, yet could hold such nice trophy size blackfish and seabass. Sudsy where ever you are, thanks for showing me that persistence and leaving nothing to chance are the most important thing in becoming a good fishermen. Your just one example of the great fishermen that came out of Sheepshead Bay, and i am very fortunate to have fished with you.


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## LongIslandtoMD (May 8, 2005)

Another fellow contacted me about something that was written by another member about where blackfish are situated on the wreck. Remember, that when you are fishing tidal areas, such as inlets and channels, you want to FISH INTO THE STRUCTURE, which means setting up ahead of the piece and fishing into it. If you are fishing deep water spots, and you have a running tide, the same applies. Drop your anchor and make sure you are in front of the piece...then jockey around, setting bridles to move left or right of the piece, or when the tide slacks, dropping back behind the spot. If you are on slack water, or fishing spots with less tidal activity, try to position yourself on corners of the spot. Fishing ontop of wrecks, usually means lots of lost tackle, and on some spots, more perch then blackfish. Their are wrecks in certain areas that have been wired dragged, so that they have little relief. On these spots you can get right on top of them, even in the channel areas with roaring tide. Even the biggest blackfish will move around a wreck....they move off wrecks during the day, and then later on settle back into them when it gets dark. That is why you always see a great bite during dusk hours in the fall and winter. Blackfish will move around more then you think, and we see in the spring time, fish swimming all over certain spots. You can rig your hooks higher off the bottom at this time, and still catch as well as someone with their hooks right on the bottom. Joe Grace who ran the old wooden party boat, GRACE in Sheepshead Bay was the master of rigging a high hook with a whole sandworm on his sidewinder rod....i cannot tell you how many bulldog blackfish this man caught with that setup fishing our local inshore wrecks. If you are fishing reef areas that are totally evil, either drop down, and crank up a turn or two, or rig with a hook that is about 2 feet off the bottom....the hits sometimes will be jarring, so be ready to set the hook. 
You have to get out of this mindset that you have to be right ontop of a spot to catch blackfish. Party boarts due to their size, have to position themselves over a wreck so that the wreck is under the boat... Private boats can fish edges and corners, and thats why small boats with experienced crews can put together very large catches. Unless you want to donate tackle all day, learn to fish into a spot, and make adjustments from that point on.


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## LongIslandtoMD (May 8, 2005)

*Rigs*

RIGS>

their are a number or rigs to consider...if you are fishing for big fish, then go to the montauk rig, which is a big dropper loop that is cut at one end near the main line...the length of your leader now can range anywhere from 12 - 16 inches...i knew one fellow who fished this rig, as long as 18 inches, and caught many mule blackfish while fishing up north. When you have a picky bite, the blackfish, especially the bigger fish tend to not want to feel any tension on the line, thus the longer leader. Their are times though when you should goto a shorter leader when you get out to the deep water and have trouble hooking fish. You have to see what works best that day. Your other option is to get straight lengths of Dupont leader material 40-50#, and cut them down to the size you like, preferably 16 inches for a single hook rig. This seems to be the best all around rig...one hook, one bait. If you are using a snafu' rig, fishing a large crab, cut the dupont leader material longer, so that you can tie hooks on both ends of the SINGLE PIECE...then make a dropper loop in the middle. I and other guys in our crew, always bring out 3 rigs, one or two rigged with a single hook on dupont leader material, and one with the montauk rig....depending on what pieces we were fishing, is the setup we would grab. If you get onto real nasty reef bottom, you best bet is to get the rig with the dupont material due to having better abrasion resistance when compared to the regular mono rig. But if i am fishing rocky area like Southwest Ledge, or off Mass, in the Nomans area or Buzzards Bay, i goto the montauk rig on 50lb jinkai or momoi line. I shy away from fishing two hooks since they increase the likely hood of getting hung on the piece, especially once you hooked a fish. Also this rig tends to catch smaller fish. None of the regular pinhookers around here use the standard two hook rig you see on many party boat setups.


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## LongIslandtoMD (May 8, 2005)

*If you want to chart it on your own*

INSHORE/OFFSHORE

First grab a chart of your area. I use chartview software, which is one of a number of good programs that you can store on your computer to view NOAA charts. The most productive areas for blackfish usually are ones where you see contour changes, where shallow water spots, lie next to channels, or just deeper water. Up in Buzzards Bay, we found points of land that stick out, that had rocks around them, pretty productive, and usually these areas are the first you try when you start fishing a area that you are not familiar with. A example of this was Woods Hole channel which connected Vineyard Sound on one side to Buzzards Bay on the other. Also look for spots on a chart, where you see lumps surrounded by deeper water. Once on the water look for visual signs of rocky bottom or even wrecks...Lobster pot buoys are the best indicators of rocks/wrecks in a area. Finally, look for areas marked rocky bottom on a chart. Once you got that all down, its up to you to investigate these areas. Go and run your boat with the bottom machine on....this is the best way to find your own cherry spots and honey holes. You do not have to find bottom that comes up 5-10 feet to be productive for blackfish. Up in the sound, a few boulders, spread out, are good enough. Watch your machine while you ride along, and watch for hardness of the bottom, and even better, tails, which show even harder bottom. All a tail is, and you see this when you ride along, is a thickening of the bottom, that extends downward. This could just be rocks and stones that come up no more then a foot off the bottom. Areas like this get little pressure, so give them a shot. If you are looking for bigger fish in the Sound, use fiddlers and hermits for your bait, instead of the green crabs early in the season. Shallow water happens to be very productive for big fish. When i fished off of Woods Hole back in the 80s, we would fish rocky bottom spots as shallow as 7 feet of water, to catch some pretty big fish...This was in late October, and the first week of November up off Buzzard Bay. But remember, if you start seeing a vast majority of small fish, push out deeper, increasing water depth by ten feet on each drop till you find fish. 
Another thing about rocky bottom spots, is that sometimes, you just have to sit there, and build up the life. Blackfish move around, and you can sit on spots for a hour with a pick of a few fish, then all of a sudden, you start bailing them for a while. Watch the tides, depending on the time of the year, since incoming or outgoing water due to the temperature difference of the water, can shut fish down. In October, i will try my shallow water spots first, see what size fish i was catching, then push out further into deeper water. You should realize by November, the bigger blackfish will be off the beach, which means going out into water deeper then 60 feet. Experience is your own best teacher with this, and you have to go out, and fish a number of spots in different depths to see where the blackfish are setting up. Then you develop a MO on how the blackfish move around in your area. Use one hook rigs as i mentioned before. 
One last story. My friend from a local tackle shop told me about a few guys we know, that ran from Montauk to fish some spots off of Cuttyhunk in Mass., in early November....they figure, its just like the Viking Starship running over to Nomans for togs, and that everywhere you look you will find bottom that is stacked with fish. The guys on this trip happen to be pretty sharp, so, you figure, they would come back with totes full of trophy tog. Well they get off to the mouth of Vineyard Sound, and start scooting around looking for bottom. After awhile they did not find as much as they thought, and work their way towards the mouth of Buzzards Bay, and start finding nice pieces of bottom...they anchor up....nothing...they try other spots, that look incredible when they read it on the bottom machine, but the same thing happens....nothing to get excited over. Finally they find one drop that holds fish, and they are excited, but its late in the day, so they run into shore for the night. The next day they tried to fish the same spot, but the weather turns so ugly that they have to go home, and they end up getting their 'jocks' beaten in, while running back to Montauk. So what do we learn from this? First, get charts, of the area, and develop a game plan, on what spots you are going to both look for and fish. Instead of running all over the ocean wasting time, get highlight type markers, and make indications on a few areas where you want to check around for productive bottom. Watch water depths, especially as you get later in the season. Bigger fish move off the beach once we get into late October/early November, which means, you have to look for bottom in deeper water. Remember that many rockpiles are not productive blackfish holding spots. Its nice to drop on a spot, and you start to lock and load with the fish climbing up the line. But i have seen, and this goes for fishing up north, where there are rockpiles all over the place, and you just sit, and pick a fish or two. Make a note of this and move on. Maybe its the time of the year, maybe its water temp...come back at another time, and recheck it. We have seen rockpiles, where you anchor up and catch bergalls to the point, where your blue in the face...but if you see them slow down, or stop, stick around, since sometimes, that is a signal that some blackfish may have moved onto the piece. If you sit on a rockpile and see nothing happening with the hard bait, put some skimmers down and see what happens. Sometimes this acts like a chumming effect, and gets fish into a feeding mode...the smaller fish start then after awhile, switch back over to the hard baits. Early in the fall, scup and seabass, can clean up on the softer fiddlers and hermits, so bring both the soft and hard baits. 
Finally take note where other boats have anchored up. And when i say take notes, thats all it means. Do not run over to a anchored boat just to get the numbers. Courtesy is the main point i can tell you when it comes to wreck fishing. Check out the spot on another day. With blackfishing if you learn from/or using a 'ground' up approach' instead of everything given to you on a silver platter, you will be a much more better fishermen. You start to think, and become a more efficient and productive fishermen on the water. 
Well i hope this clarifies a few things.


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## LongIslandtoMD (May 8, 2005)

*To chum or not to chum*

Chumming for blackfish, has its moments depending on the time of the year and the area in which you do it at. During the early part of the summer before the scup really take ahold, chumming with crushed crabs is very effective when you have a slow bite. But as you progress in the later part of the summer, it seems to attract small pin seabass, sea robins and triggers, along with the scup. Now if you are using fiddlers, you will be going through a great deal of bait. Use green crabs, and whole calicos to ensure that you have some bait on your hook with all these other fish around. We know of one fishermen in the bay, who does this, but he goes out, and anchors on one, or maybe two spots at most during the day. Its a very hard way to fish, just staying on one spot and waiting for fish to bite. Just remember that in reef areas, where there is bottom tightly packed in a small area, you will definitly see more smaller bait stealing fish like bergalls and small sea bass being attracted to your hooks. Anchor up ahead of the piece and put your chum pot in front of the boat. 

I am not a fan of chumming for blackfish.....again depending on the time of the year, you want to get to a spot and catch them, or, you know they are there and not biting so, you then 
entice them with the soft baits, then switch back to the hard baits. I really would not be to concerned about chumming for blackfish. 

The grapple is a great tool to use in areas such as reefs where you have a great probability of losing a standard danforth style anchor. Rig it with a bottom release with soft light wire, or light plastic wire ties to aid in its removal when leaving the piece. Even better though, which was used by many old time captains was the kedge anchor, which we used up in rocky bottom, Buzzards Bay. It happens to be a happy medium as far as a anchor that can hold in both soft bottom, but also in areas with rocks. One problem with a grapple especially on small wrecks, is that you drop on top of the piece, give out some scope, and you are a distance away from the piece. We have found that one of the most effective ways to use a grapple is to use a standard danforth dropped on soft bottom, then drop the grapple in front of the piece, and make your manuevers, giving and taking from both the danforth and the grapple. Again, when wreck fishing you do not want to be on top of the piece but fishing the edges. You can fish right on top of many spread out rocky areas, but if you are fishing areas like up in the sound where their are large boulders, fish into the piece. One last thing about dropping grapples on shallow water spots....we have seen that lots of noise and bottom disturbance can shut off fish. You are better off learning how to set up with your standard style danforth anchor to ensure that you do not turn the fish off from feeding...many times, you have to sit 10-20 minutes before you get blackfish to bite. Give the spot a few minutes before you decide to move. 

One little story about causing bottom disturbance and how they can shut off fish... Years ago, we were fishing a inshore wreck off of Rockaway where we catching large blackfish during the early part of the summer. To keep the fish alive due to the warm water temps, we would put the fish in special bags and hang them over the side, till we had to move. We had a big clip rigged up which held the fish bags, which were full of fish. Well we had three big bags filled with blackfish and we were aiming to fill a few more, when we saw the bite, just stop....we stayed another 20 minutes, and not a bite. When we went to move, i pulled the clip in, and lo and behold, only one bag....where did the other bags go? We figured, that we did not put them on the clip right, and lost them over the wreck....we moved onto the next spot, mad at ourselves for both losing two good bags, with big blackfish in them. The next day we brought a friend out who was not a regular member of our crew and immediately we ran to this spot which happened to be very productive that summer...we anchored, dropped our lines, and the bite was to say, very slow. Then this fellow, hooks something, and his rod is bending like its a parabolic standup tuna stick...he calls for the net, and we see something big coming up.....it was one of the fish bags! We gragged it with a gaff and brought it in. We opened it up and 
found some really jumpy blackfish inside. We fished the spot for a couple of more minutes and the bite was off. It took a few days before the bite came back to that spot. Needless to say we remembered a story that George the owner of the party boat White Chin told us when he would dive on shallow water wrecks and how blackfish behaved when a boat moved onto a spot...he said that blackfish would actually hunker down into the spot, some laying on 
the bottom on their sides for a few minutes. Then after awhile after things settled down, they would right themselves and start swimming around the wreck again. Again this reinforced that when fishing on shallow water spots, to anchor in front and fish into the piece...and after awhile, slowly dropping back to be almost ontop of the piece. And most of all, try to be as quiet as possible especially when setting anchors. 

Nite Watch....thats a really nice trophy sized fish...... 

EC NEWELL MAN>>>>>>>


WATER TEMP OFF OF BREEZY>

Flukekid, isn't the BAYHOUSE right off Roxbury Cove area? Well we know from fishing that area that blackfish run through Rockaway Channel from September through December.....and the reason we know this was from guys who used to pot fish years ago, along this area. I guess you would be surprised, in November catching fish there, even though it is past the prime time of the year for inshore blackfishing. October would be the best time though. The channel that runs along here has depths of upto 40 plus feet, with very swift currents. Unless you get a very cold start to the winter in late November, you will be able to catch fish there for awhile through the fall... Its not the top, surface water temps that you see posted which dictate how the fish move along here....Its the temperature of the water that pours out of Jamaica Bay and the incoming water from the ocean, which will influence how fast the blackfish leave this area.


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## LongIslandtoMD (May 8, 2005)

*Frozen Green Crabs*

FROZEN GREEN CRABS>>>>

The best bait is a fresh green crab, but i remember the years we had mild winters, where we fished year round, and we sometimes used frozen green crabs and caught fish. The party boats would have a tough time getting green crabs from up north, so on the trips that their were a few available, you would take a few dozen, stick them in a plastic container and bring them home and stick them in the freezer. Like i said, they would catch fish, especially when others on the boat would only have skimmers available. When you use them, just get a pail with a little salt water, and put a few in at a time to defrost...do not half them till you have to use them though! Cut them when you are ready to fish. With a private boat, you would order a number of bags before they would get tough to get. Then you would stick the crabs in a nylon fish bag, and hang them in the water. As long as their is MOVING WATER and NO ICEING or extremely cold water within the bay, the crabs will stay alive...toss bits of fish racks inside, and you can keep these crabs alive for a few months like this. We would watch water temps since very cold water will kill the green crabs. Anyway, when water temps in the winter drop to 39-40 degrees, basically the blackfish gradually shut off from feeding, and the season has come to a end.


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## LongIslandtoMD (May 8, 2005)

*Where to fish on a Party/Headboat*

WHAT SPOT TO FISH ON A PARTY BOAT>>>

The Ocean Eagle is a unique blackfish party boat in that they fish like a small pin hook boat would. Give it a try to see the difference from the way other party boats fish....just remember that catching fish on a party boat is somewhat harder when compared to fishing on a small private boat....theirs much more competition, and many times, you might not be on a prime area of the piece due to the way a captain sets up on the anchor. Just watch what is going on, if necessary, AND if their is SOME ROOM to move around, do so. Many times, good party boat captains, will move the boat slightly, once their boat setups, so that more customers can get onto a bigger piece, different part of the piece or more productive area of the piece of bottom. They will either backoff on the anchor, take in some line, put briddles on, set two anchors, or just turn the wheel to redirect the boat to another portion of the piece....but sometimes, the captain, can knock everyone out by doing these adjustments. You can also be put on a very nasty piece of bottom where you get hung up almost everytime you get down to the bottom. Reef areas in particular where rebarb is all over the bottom, is such a place where this will happen. Many pieces are not as big as the party boats that fish them, so you have to keep this in mind. You might be fishing in the 'mud' as they say and get few if any bites. 

As we get latter in the season, their is usually more room along the rail to jockey around, or as they say, 'put your roller skates on' to try a different spot on the boat...the stern sometimes, is not the best spot on the boat. Many party boats have their transducers set just aft of the frontal portions of their boats, about where the boats pilothouse is, so that the midship area is the first area where a captain usually setups since the boat is directly over the piece. This makes adjustments much easier for the captain, since he has a idea on how the boat will lay now, with the effect of both the tide and current on his boat. You might notice on the first one or two drops a party boat makes in the morning, that their will be a little more 'jockeying' around the piece as the captain is figuring out how a boat is going to sit in a certain area. Again currents and winds differ from one area to the next, especially in a area like the NY Bight. A west wind might not have much effect when you are sitting tucked in, to the beach in the NJ Highlands, but as soon as you move slightly north towards Sandy Hook or south to Sea Bright, leaving the protection from the hills on the Highlands, that breeze can make a hugh difference in a way a boat is going to lay. Take a look at how a captain is setting the boat up when he initially sets up on his drop, to see what the most productive spots are along the rail of the boat. Of course days with roaring currents due to moon tide periods or areas like channels which always have stronger current flows, will make it easier for fishermen in the stern portion of the boat. If you are towards the front of the boat, cast ahead to allow your sinker rig to settle under the boat. It is extremely hard to fish on what we call 'angles' where you pole is pointed in one direction, and the line running off in another. You should always try to have the pole and your line, laying in one 'plane', which makes it easier, to detect bites, and stick the fish. On some days, especially when the boats start moving out to deeper water like 17 Fathoms, you get what is called a 'cross current'. Your line goes down in one direction, yet ends up setting up in the opposite direction! To explain this clearer, just imagine, that you line is going down like you have a incoming tide on top, yet ends up on the bottom like you have a outgoing current...if you do a great deal of winter blackfishing this is very common. With monofilament lines, you will get a nice belly in it which makes it harder to detect bites. Gel spun lines lessen this phenomena since they have a thinner diameter, causing less resistance, thus work much better when you have these conditions. You want as straight a line going from your rod tip to the bottom. That does not mean keeping a ultra-taut line, which is really poor technique....you should just have enough tension on your line, to detect bites! You will notice that big fish will hit a bait, then backoff sometimes due to the tension you have on your line...slacken it off slightly! One thing you can do is to goto a slighlty heavier sinker. Another is to fish a slightly longer leader, which lessens the tension from the main line when a blackfish picks up the bait. I know first hand, when i get that 'big fish hit' then feel little pecking from small fish the longer my crab is on the bottom. Many times i know its from keeping too much tension on my main line. 

This is a great deal to understand, since it requires thinking on your part. At first it is not automatic when you fish on a party boat. But this is why certain fishermen on a party boat always catch more fish and bigger fish, because they pay attention to the small details. These are some very important tips to remember.


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## LongIslandtoMD (May 8, 2005)

*The last piece*

And here is the reason why Monty is so adamant about releasing the large females....

TOG GROWTH

The Tog is the victim of slow growth rate. This is the biggest factor we need to understand. Because of this the pots catching the majority of smaller fish is a big impact on the Tog. I bet there is a great waste from pot fishing which we need to include. the problem is to fight and win for better REG;s it can only be done with great numbers and expensive lawyers. Without the big gun lawyers you won't stand a chance these days. To many politicians looking for donations from the big fish companies tend to be in there favor. So it is just a matter of time and the old mighty Tog will join the ranks of the old missing COD? It is sad what is happening and is why my interest is minimal in the fishing business. Ecnewellman and I just enjoy taking our kids out fishing. But we both feel upset and disgusted about what is and has happened to fishing Reg's in general. But it's like the price club effect. The big guy cuts out all the little guys till he is on top like Wal-Mart Costco, same principal. Only time will tell in this matter and it looks like we are dwindling down slowly but Surely.


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## catman (May 28, 2001)

Dang LongIslandtoMD, that's almost word for word out of my notebooks. Looks like the rail is building for Monday. BTW, you've got to get up damn early to get spot #25. . I didn't see that part in your notes. See you guys Monday morning.


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

I read that material on the other site. It's
a great read but IMHO the only way to
get better at togging is to go out and
tog. The more the better! Togging is 
all about learning how to read the way things
"feel". You cannot translate words into
knowledge...I have tried...it does not
work.  You have got to learn how
to read your equipment. When I first
started going togging on the Morning Star,
Monty used to say...Henry, are you 
on structure? At the time I had no 
idea if I was on mud, rock, or wreckage. 
After a while you will be able to not only
feel the structure, but you will be able
to say what kind of structure it is (rocks, 
tires, coral, shipwreck, etc). The really
good ones can size up a spot in a few 
minutes and figure out if there is a nice
hole in the area or if the fish are hanging
on the outside edge of the wreck or 
on a piece of structure up off the 
wreck. During this whole learning process, 
they will have tried every hook in the book
after having lost a "monster" due to a
bent hook (never use a wide gap flunder
hook for togging...trust me.) Once you
have got all that down...then you are
ready to start learning how to tog.
Anybody can catch a tog when they 
are biting like crazy...the good ones catch
when you have to hit them on the head 
with the crab and then wait 20 min
for the right bite to swing on.
P.S. I am still learning how to read 
a wreck...there was one trip that me, anthony,
and Brian went on....we were fishing this 
small wreck that was just loaded with tog.
Anthony was the only one who figured out
that the tog were actually on the very top
piece of the wreck...about 8' up...I was still
trying to find the "magic" honey hole in the 
bottom and just loosing rig after rig...


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

SUN NIGHT
SW WINDS 15 TO 20 KT. SEAS 4 TO 5 FT. 

MON
SW WINDS 15 TO 20 KT WITH GUSTS TO AROUND 30 KT. SEAS 4 TO 5 FT.

MON NIGHT
SW WINDS 20 TO 25 KT WITH GUSTS TO AROUND 35 KT. SEAS 6 TO
7 FT. A CHANCE OF SHOWERS. 

Monday looks very dicey right now. 
Forecast is calling for rough 
seas to start...getting down right
crazy as the day goes on 


If this forecast holds up we might be
fishing "under the beach". Which 
would not be good as the tog are
out in the 10-15 mile range right now.

The question is will that window of 15-20 
knot wind and 4-5' sea forecast hold up
or will the front come in a little early.
Even if it doesn't will Monty want to 
take a chance on being caught 15 miles
out with that 35 knot wind gusts and 6-7'
seas in rain coming up on his back side?? 
I think not...


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## bumsrim (Oct 30, 2003)

*I like to but*

Henry,

I have a trip on the Jil Carrie for sea bass (3/12sunday) I will be on the MS in next week. 







Talapia said:


> Brian, I know you are out there reading
> this thread You going to make
> this trip?


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## fyremanjef (Feb 17, 2005)

*Monday*

I wish I could make it, but I cant. Enjoy guys.

Talapia, I wonder if you will be able to have catch like you did one of the last times you went out. Now that was an impressive haul.

Jeff


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## LongIslandtoMD (May 8, 2005)

*The weather in March....*

gotta love it. im starting to doubt we will make it out. gusts to 30. great....


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## catman (May 28, 2001)

LongIslandtoMD said:


> gotta love it. im starting to doubt we will make it out. gusts to 30. great....


You can't put much faith in a forecast that far out. I'm a boater on the Chesapeake and my best forecast is what the wind is doing the day I go out. I've had trips cancelled when there was a forecast of 5 to 10 and it was blowing 25. Go figure. Let's hope the winds don't kick up until that evening.


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

MON
SW WINDS 20 TO 25 KT. SEAS 4 FT...BUILDING TO 5 TO 6 FT.

MON NIGHT
SW WINDS 20 TO 25 KT. SEAS 5 TO 6 FT. A CHANCE OF SHOWERS.

TUE
W WINDS 25 KT...BECOMING NW. SEAS 5 TO 6 FT. A CHANCE OF
SHOWERS AND TSTMS.

As of Saturday morning....:--|

I will check the forecast Sunday morning and make my go-no-go
call. If the forecast does not improve by then I will probably
opt out. 20-25kt 5-6' seas sounds like one of those
"out of the inlet hit a local spot or two off the beach and
then come back in with a full or partial refund" type 
of days....been there...done that, do not want to take
a day of leave and drive 6 hrs roundtrip on that forecast.
Hope it gets better quick!


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## catman (May 28, 2001)

Come on T we need some positive MOJO here. 

The forecast as of 10 minutes ago read -

MON
SW WINDS 5 to 10 KT. SEAS 2 FT...BUILDING TO 3 TO 4 FT.

MON NIGHT
SW WINDS 5 TO 10KT. SEAS 2 TO 3 FT. A CHANCE OF SHOWERS.

Now isn't that much better.


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

I hear ya...P.S. this is the link that 
Monty uses. It's the one he recommends
off his web site:
http://weather.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/fmtbltn.pl?file=forecasts/marine/coastal/an/anz650.txt



catman said:


> Come on T we need some positive MOJO here.
> 
> The forecast as of 10 minutes ago read -
> 
> ...


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## catman (May 28, 2001)

That's the same service that I use for the bay and it's usually pretty accurate. Hope it's wrong this time.


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## catman (May 28, 2001)

Hey T I'll be doing the same thing if the wind forecast doesn't change. I'll just take another rain check. More than likely fish Gray Run for YP. With the warm weather they should turn on big time.


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## catman (May 28, 2001)

Trip cancelled - high winds. I going YP fishin' anyway.


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## LongIslandtoMD (May 8, 2005)

*okay. time to adjust my plan*

so, due to high winds, trip is cancelled. D*mn. I can't say i didnt see it coming. I can't say that I was looking forward to the 6 hour round trip. But still, disappointment has set in. I am still curious if Monty made it out Sat & Sun. Im thinking that he did, wind kept him under the beach, but the fish were offshore due to chilly temps. That, of course, is just a guess.


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

I spoke with Monty this morning. Not sure about Saturday but I know that Monty made it out yesterday. He said the bite was good to fair
for the folks who had experience togging.


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## LongIslandtoMD (May 8, 2005)

*Lets try it again*

Alright, seeing as I didnt make it out last time, I figured I would give it a go on Monday. #24.


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

LongIslandtoMD said:


> Alright, seeing as I didnt make it out last time, I figured I would give it a go on Monday. #24.


Did he put out another e-mail? I cannot
access my work account right now. If he 
did can you post it on here for me. Thanks!


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## BubbaBlue (May 11, 2004)

Fish Report 3/17/06

Hi All,
Seems like me and the weatherman ain't gettin' on so well. Hmph. He says it's gonna blow and it's beautiful - twice this week! 'Course one day he was right on about a pretty day and I was too busy thinking about paint. Now they're calling for almost a gale of clearing wind (NW) Saturday and then doable, but not fantastic, weather for awhile. OK, we'll try Sunday and Monday, March 19th and 20th and see how that plays. These tog trips are 7AM to 3PM and limited to 16 people. A variety of crabs provided...
Last weekend's fishing was mixed. I'd expect if you asked everyone aboard both days how the fishing was you'd get a range of excellent to rotten! That then, is how the fishing was. At one point Saturday a sharpy was fishing mid-ship stb side and catching every drop. Around him they were just picking one once in a while. Fair's fair though, his Gal had wiped everyone's eye - especially his, in the first drops of the day. Saturday saw some good tag returns too - the rarest of the rare - a tog over 25 inches. The fish was recaptured on the same wreck it was originally released at, as was another 17 1/2 inch recapture. That 25 1/2 inch fish, a female, was retagged and let go again!
On Sunday two fellows that enjoy going quite a bit were aboard; in fact, the big tog recapture was initially one of theirs. Old Man Murphy must have been camped out in one of'ems cooler. One had 'high hook' (most fish caught) and two of the three biggest fish. The other? Well, he didn't get skunked!
Point is, when you're tog fishing the old "Flying Fickle Finger of Fate Award" (from the TV show "Laugh-In" - couple/three/four decades back - my apologies to you youngsters) may be yours to keep for a day. Skill is important, yes - but if it's not your turn...
The pool winner Sunday (also won the reef raffle) was an awesome 27 1/2 inch male just shy of 13lbs. I'd anticipate that the fish would have gone 15+ in a few months; he was lean from the winter.
So, how was the fishing last weekend? Depends who you ask!
Here's the weather link that I use; local marine forecast. Lots of westerlies - should be able to make that work.
http://weather.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/fmtbltn.pl?file=forecasts/marine/coastal/an/anz650.txt
The boat has her annual USCG safety inspection on Thursday. I don't try to just pass ~ I try to Wow 'em! As with any inspection though, you don't know 'till it's over. She'll exceed every safety regulation that I can think of!
Have a safe St. Patrick's weekend.
Regards,
Monty


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

Thanks!


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## LongIslandtoMD (May 8, 2005)

*ive seen better*

i've seen better forecasts. im guessing monday will be scrubbed, but i'll keep my fingers crossed. 

SUN
NW WINDS 15 TO 20 KT. SEAS 4 TO 5 FT. 

SUN NIGHT
NW WINDS 20 TO 25 KT. SEAS 4 TO 5 FT.

MON
NW WINDS 20 KT...DECREASING TO 10 TO 15 KT IN THE
AFTERNOON. SEAS 4 TO 5 FT...SUBSIDING TO 3 FT.


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

I am going to pass on this one. If I could
make it down on Sunday I would but I have
plans. Do not feel like calling my boss on
the weekend to ask about taking leave
on Monday for that forecast...


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## catman (May 28, 2001)

Maybe we'll have better weather next Monday the 27th. If we do I'll make that trip.


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