# what to do for distance?



## medicdav66 (Sep 27, 2007)

Hey guys... Ive been on this board for years and never came into this forum, but my last trip to Cape Lookout 2 weeks ago opened my eyes. A drum blitz hit the Point and I was there.. right where I needed to be and at the right time! But what I noticed was that the guys catching the most were really bombing their baits out there! Like... Flying by my bait by 75yds. I had a 12ft Tica xh and my new Saltist BG30sst. They were using mostly customs with 515's or 525's on them. I did see many of the saltiga red rods too though. Sooo... Having a wonderful girlfriend, we went to RDT, and she bought me a st croix Mojo 6-16oz that ive really wanted for years now. So... Back out there with a few practice casts and there's some improvement, but I lost multiple rigs due to my leader knot  ... Anyway, my question is.. do I now have the equipment to get true distance? I swapped the brakes in the Saltist from red to white, and I'm a little scared to take them out altogether yet till my technique while standing in waist-deep water improves. Any thoughts or suggestions??? Anything??


----------



## dawgfsh (Mar 1, 2005)

Work on your knots til you can tie them in the dark. 
Practice casting in a field when your back home,you should be able to hit 100yards with an 8oz sinker and no bait with either rod.
Don't take all the brakes out ever.


----------



## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

medicdav66 said:


> Hey guys... Ive been on this board for years and never came into this forum, but my last trip to Cape Lookout 2 weeks ago opened my eyes. A drum blitz hit the Point and I was there.. right where I needed to be and at the right time! But what I noticed was that the guys catching the most were really bombing their baits out there! Like... Flying by my bait by 75yds. I had a 12ft Tica xh and my new Saltist BG30sst. They were using mostly customs with 515's or 525's on them. I did see many of the saltiga red rods too though. Sooo... Having a wonderful girlfriend, we went to RDT, and she bought me a st croix Mojo 6-16oz that ive really wanted for years now. So... Back out there with a few practice casts and there's some improvement, but I lost multiple rigs due to my leader knot  ... Anyway, my question is.. do I now have the equipment to get true distance? I swapped the brakes in the Saltist from red to white, and I'm a little scared to take them out altogether yet till my technique while standing in waist-deep water improves. Any thoughts or suggestions??? Anything??


hopefully the rod you bought is at least 12'
line no more than 20lb
shock line 40 to 50.
technique is not to be underestimated. Equipment only gets you in the right direction.


----------



## mully (May 15, 2013)

I'm not a serious distance caster, but I do know some guys who are in to the whole comp scene and they gave me some lessons. What I learned is that having good equipment can help with getting greater distance but proper technique is the most important thing, learning to get the rod to do the work and using your body effectively. Check out the videos online, Tommy Farmer who frequents this site has some really good ones. I would suggest starting with the OTG cast and working at perfecting your technique, you should see improvements in your distance.


----------



## SteveZ (Nov 30, 2006)

Take a lesson from Tommy.


----------



## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Not really an expert but I am also not trying to sell you anything but my experience

I use a spider hitch to double uni knot for the shock line 50-60 pound test shock, I like my smallest guide near the tip to be at least a 16 if possible, I think the smaller guides some builders put on heavers are more apt to hang up a shock knot and getting a shock knot blowup when fishing requires getting out the knife and re spooling

I never cast or seen one of my associates cast a ST Croix Mojo so I do not know what to tell you there, it is probably better than a Magnaflex which is what fellas of my generation started out with and we caught a few Drum back in the day with the flimsy yellow fiberglass Magnaflex's

At present I have 18 heavers hanging in the garage that all were in their time "State of the Art" spanning the years from 1985-2005, I kept most of my rods, a lot of fellas sell off their rods to make way for new sticks but I decided I wanted to hang on to the memories

Rods are progressively getting longer and the blanks are thinner diameter (which is different from this caster who is progressively getting shorter and wider)

Circa 1985 Heavers are 10'6"-11" in length with Graphite butts with Fiberglass tips

Circa 2005 Heavers are an All Star Competition butt/ 1507/1508/or 1509 All Star Tips are 13-13'6" in length

I think that the actual frontal mass of the older rods (what you are pushing through the air molecules) and the newer rods is very similar, so the longer rod of today gets better distance due to the increased leverage

Distance is achieved mostly from practice, The difference from the best distance rods I own and the oldest Surfstick is only around twenty to twenty five yards with a identical 6-8 ounce weight which equates to around 180 yards with a 8 ounce bullet sinker and perhaps 160 yards with a SurfStick

Timing is extremely important (it is the most important thing) as distance comes from fully loading whatever rod you are casting I use a personal variation of the beach pendulum style at the moment and it was designed to be used when standing in crotch deep water with gentle waves trying to lap over your head or in a gentle twenty five mile an hour headwind

You can get some additional distance tuning your reel but a too loose reel is a reel that wants to blow up when you are actually fishing

Take one of brakes out, leave at least 1/8" or a bit more on your spool when filling with line, leave a little slop in your spool and keep the bearings oiled with light grade oil

Practice a 2-3 times a week for ______(Fill in the blanks but plan on at least five) ______years and you will find that you will be out there out "bombing" all the fellas that do not put their time in

Use a short 6-7' feet drop and make ever effort to be a smooth as possible so you have no slack when you start to come forward (all the greatest heaver casters have one thing in common, they are very smooth and deliberate in their drop)

Get the sinker behind you at least 220 degrees (more is better but is more difficult to control) (0 degrees is straight a head where you want the sinker to end up)

Start slow when you are coming forward, a lot of folks do a fast drop but that can lead to problems with slack which either robs you of distance or causes you to back lash, my drop has just the slightest drop of the tip to get the sinker moving first directly behind me and then when it reaches its apogee I re direct it to allow for a 270 degree rotation (approximate, I never measured but it likely close to that figure)

Finish fast and when the rod tip is coming past your shoulder, put the heat on 

If you put your time in (more time than you think) you will not have to worry about others out casting you, the others will have to worry about you out casting them (it is better to be bowed up than to be the guy holding the net or camera)

It would not hurt to pay someone who actually is a great caster like Tommy or Ryan White to spend a few hours with you

I was too much of an independent know it all OBX Drum wannabee so it took me thirty years to really learn how


----------



## Lynn P. (Sep 7, 2007)

There's a dang good lesson in that reply Garbo.....hope the novices pay attention. Their loss if they don't..........found a picture holding a trout & a spot from 1952 when I was a kid--been a flea since. Got too many hooks in the arm, leg, ear and finally gave up the blanks 20+ yrs ago.


----------



## River (Sep 30, 2006)

Excellent info Garboman - I think you hit most everything --- but I saw medicdav66's Mojo was 6-16 ozs., - It seems everyone thinks you have to throw 8nbait to catch Big Drum, Cobia or big fish in general. Some of us are older and not built like a Angus Bull, so they have developed the long Rods today for lighter weights ---- 8 ozs wears me out casting and crankin it back in, so I dropped to a 13' Rod that throws 3 or 4 ozs like a bullet and now I'm comfortable and can throw out there with all the long casters. Don't get a mindset that you have to throw 7 or 8 ozs., stay in your own comfort zone. When you're throwin three ozs, you can drop your shock leader size down to 30 or less, makin your shock leader knot smaller and faster thru the guides --- CCP makes the 13' 3-6 oz Rod that will smoke 4nbait and very comfortable to throw --- again JMO, River


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Another great post with good info...


----------



## tomsurles (Jan 16, 2012)

wasn't the original poster but thanks for all that info Garboman!!!


----------



## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Some really great advice in this thread. Garbo hit on many good points, experience is the best teacher and he has that in spades.

My two cents;

Back in the late 90’s I began a quest to become the best caster that I could be. My roots are 8nbait casting/fishing NC beaches.

The Hatteras cast was the first power-cast that I learned. Compared to other casts like the full tournament ground cast and the pendulum, the HC happens quickly and is therefore very timing dependant. The biggest flaw in most Hatteras casts lies in the use/extension of the left (right handed caster) arm. I’d say the 90% (or more) of fisherman just don’t use the left. They toss back, keep the left tucked safely close to the body and smash it hard with the right. This can look impressive and produce decent numbers with a big strong guy but leaves a lot of distance untapped. It takes practice and discipline, but learning to get the left extended and then pulling hard is like adding a turbo charge to the cast with very little additional effort. Toss back, and as the sinker is reaching full extension smoothly stick the left out. Then turn into the cast. When the left gets out in front of your face PUNCH/PULL. 

Garbo hit on a bit of sound technique advice. Instead of tossing straight back (180 deg from target or 6 o’clock) toss back somewhere between 200 and 220 deg (between 7-8 o’clock). This will take a little practice. Initially your casts will probably fly right but should straighten out as you focus on your target. This additional rotation does a couple of things for you. It gives you a little more time to get everything into position and allows you more distance or “arc” for the rod to travel. The more arc, the more space/time you have to accelerate the sinker. Think about driving a sports car through a sweeping curve, IN SLOW – OUT FAST. Once you accelerate the sinker, you can smash the crap out of the cast (the later the better) adding lots of power and minimizing thumb slip as the payload is already moving. 

I’ve seen a lot of fishermen get caught up in making the sinker do a cute little dip/flip on the HC. While it looks good, I wouldn’t really get caught up there. It’s more important to get the sinker extended back, get the left out and focus on a smooth buildup of power. When you get that down pat you can work on adding power, or violence, to the finish.

Oh yea, LOOK UP. Pick a cloud or something in the sky at 45-50 degrees above the horizon in line with your target and look up at it when you turn. This will give the cast elevation. It sounds too easy but works.

Hope this helps,

Tommy


----------



## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

Like This

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiySRyNlljc


----------



## surfmom (Nov 3, 2012)

it almost looks like overhand softball throwing except your starting turned around instead of facing the batter leading with left foot and throwing with right arm


----------



## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Surfmom,

The step is optional. I was practicing one day and decided to make a clip of the Hatteras cast and took my normal tourney cast step. It is OK if you are on solid beach but obviously not practical if in waist deep water. If not taking the step, just set your feet in your finish position and rotate back at the hips/waist. Then proceed with the cast.

One thing I did not touch on in the previous post. Think about uncoiling from the ground up. Your lead foot (if taking step) comes through first, followed by your hips/waist, then the torso followed by shoulders/arms/hands last. If no step then just begin the move with your hips/waist. This will generate much more power than just swinging with the upper body and arms.

Tommy


----------



## medicdav66 (Sep 27, 2007)

Wow!! Thanks for all the great info! Have to admit I'm a little lost on some of it, but I think i get the general idea. The guys out there (from the tackle stores... TW's and RDT) were using a modified sidearm motion... Starting with standing in waist deep water, and sending the bait straight back.. then coming around the left side in a sidearm motion, which I can see really increases the degrees necessary to load the rod properly. I gather there's nothing wrong with either my Saltist.. or my new Mojo, and I just need to practice. I did see a suggestion to take out one brake.. may try that! I've also been thinking of putting in aftermarkst bearings too.... We are heading back down for 2-3 days at the end of next week.. I will let yall know what your suggestions achieved


----------



## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Med,

It is OK to tweak your reel but I would be wary of trying to tune it for speed. You can make one (especially a larger bait caster like the daiwa 30) nasty fast and no fun as you pick out nest after nest. 

When tuning a fishing reel, make one change at a time. If the reel is SLOW, adjust the spool tension to give a slight side to side knock. If still slow, take out one block and try again. If it is still too slow clean and relube the bearings - cast again. Keep in mind that your practice conditions can vary a lot from real world fishing conditions with the wind blowing 15-20 in your face. A fast reel tuned to the perform in little wind or a tailwind will become uncastable into a stout headwind.

Your best bet for improving distance lies in practice. Start with a simple layback ground cast and work your way to a beach or hatteras cast. Learn the right techniques and even a slow reel will cast a loooong way.

Tommy


----------



## zdogk9 (Sep 17, 2012)

Tommy said:


> Surfmom,
> 
> The step is optional. I was practicing one day and decided to make a clip of the Hatteras cast and took my normal tourney cast step. It is OK if you are on solid beach but obviously not practical if in waist deep water. If not taking the step, just set your feet in your finish position and rotate back at the hips/waist. Then proceed with the cast.
> 
> ...


Tommy,
I'm finding that if I keep my eyes on the tip of my rod as I'm starting to about 1/2-2/3 through the cast that I'll unwind from the ground up so to speak. If I lead with my eyes then pretty much my whole body rotates at once. If you look at the video I posted up a few days ago you'll see that my head turning to the target initiates the cast. I've been trying to keep my eyes on the rod tip until rotation reaches my torso and find that I've gained about 20 yards without putting any more power into the cast. This is really counter intuitive for me so I'll play with it a few more days and maybe the rains will quit and I can take the camera to the beach again.


----------



## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Good stuff... 



zdogk9 said:


> Tommy,
> I'm finding that if I keep my eyes on the tip of my rod as I'm starting to about 1/2-2/3 through the cast that I'll unwind from the ground up so to speak. If I lead with my eyes then pretty much my whole body rotates at once. If you look at the video I posted up a few days ago you'll see that my head turning to the target initiates the cast. I've been trying to keep my eyes on the rod tip until rotation reaches my torso and find that I've gained about 20 yards without putting any more power into the cast. This is really counter intuitive for me so I'll play with it a few more days and maybe the rains will quit and I can take the camera to the beach again.


----------



## jmadre (Jan 3, 2008)

Something that really helped me was to watch a good caster in person. I was trying to learn on my own and struggling. Then I had the opportunity to see Zach G. cast a couple of years ago and it opened my eyes to what was possible.

The biggest thing was that I wasn't casting at a high enough angle. Having a degree in drafting, I KNOW what 45 degrees looks like but I wasn't really casting any higher than about 30 degrees above the horizon. The first time I did it right I almost dropped the rod when it unloaded. The cast went flying because the rod loaded easier. I'm assuming because of having more resistance from gravity.

This is where the previously suggested lessons would have useful for me.


----------



## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

River said:


> Excellent info Garboman - I think you hit most everything --- but I saw medicdav66's Mojo was 6-16 ozs., - It seems everyone thinks you have to throw 8nbait to catch Big Drum, Cobia or big fish in general. Some of us are older and not built like a Angus Bull, so they have developed the long Rods today for lighter weights ---- 8 ozs wears me out casting and crankin it back in, so I dropped to a 13' Rod that throws 3 or 4 ozs like a bullet and now I'm comfortable and can throw out there with all the long casters. Don't get a mindset that you have to throw 7 or 8 ozs., stay in your own comfort zone. When you're throwin three ozs, you can drop your shock leader size down to 30 or less, makin your shock leader knot smaller and faster thru the guides --- CCP makes the 13' 3-6 oz Rod that will smoke 4nbait and very comfortable to throw --- again JMO, River


I'll agree to a point but if your in a crowd during a drum blitz casting anything other than 8nB will not make you any friends, but if you got a hole to yourself I use the least amount I can get away with, an evening of casting 8nB will hurt me, 7 and bait isn't near as bad and my rods seem to do well with 7 and bait, also most drum are in some swift current and you need the weight to hold. good form and practice is the key


----------



## River (Sep 30, 2006)

surfchunker - You are absolutely correct, I hope I didn't confuse anyone or offend any big Drum fisherman - When you are fishing for large Drum in a group of fisherman, shoulder to shoulder at Cape Point, the inlet or anywhere else for that matter - it is only common courtesy to use the same weight they're using, 8nbait has become the standard for that ----- but -- if you're fishing for Drum or other fish somewhere by yourself when the surf is 3' @ 9 seconds, it's OK to use whatever you want - IMO - River


----------



## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

Tommy said:


> Med,
> 
> It is OK to tweak your reel but I would be wary of trying to tune it for speed. You can make one (especially a larger bait caster like the daiwa 30) nasty fast and no fun as you pick out nest after nest.
> 
> ...


get a spinning reel then you won't have those issues


----------



## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

markedwards said:


> get a spinning reel then you won't have those issues


Different strokes for different folks....

for me, a properly tuned casting reel is a thing of beauty. And, _for me_ , just performs better. Individual results may vary.... 

Tommy


----------



## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

Well, i aquired a new anchor rod for slidin out shark baits for $35. 15ft long spinner, i went to practice, just messin around tied on a 3oz weight bombed it 120yds+ no problem. Kinda scared me at first, but i reckon i can get used to the telephone pole as my cousin named it today.


----------



## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

NC KingFisher said:


> Well, i aquired a new anchor rod for slidin out shark baits for $35. 15ft long spinner, i went to practice, just messin around tied on a 3oz weight bombed it 120yds+ no problem. Kinda scared me at first, but i reckon i can get used to the telephone pole as my cousin named it today.


Hey Kingfisher I thought you were a heaver type fella

I have seven foot popping rods with 6500 Abu's or equivalent sized Millionaire II's on them that can lob 3 ounces 120 yards with not too much effort

Why the telephone pole? I would be scared too about tripping over it on the pier

When using a slide bait rig (Live bait) off the OBX piers we would use a ten ounce weight to better help set the hook when the fish took the bait and there was 100 yards or more of slack line to contend with

I am like Mr Farmer I just like to hear a conventional reel squeal when it is smoking out a bait or sinker.......


----------



## Barracuda (Aug 30, 2001)

Great thread with great information.

Quick question: It's been mentioned a few times that technique is by far the most important aspect of distance. Nonetheless, a tackle question. For us spinners, how much does the reel matter? For example, would a reel designed for distance (say Daiwa Emblem Pro 6000) outcast a narrower spool reel of the same size (e.g., Daiwa Saltist 6000) by a lot or a little (or not really at all)? And would, say, a Saltist 6000 outcast a Saltist 4500 by a lot or a little? [And I mean: assuming these reels are on a good distance rod and in the hands of a good distance caster.]


----------



## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

I can tell you this. I used the same rod with 2 different sized reels and there was a 40 drop in distance between 3500B and a 4500B 430ft for the 3500B and 390 for the 4500B same line same rod, and same weight.


----------



## wes (Jan 3, 2004)

Garbo,Tommy,Lynn p,abu mike, markedwards....all in the reply....now all we need is kenny ,corky and Joe mullet and we would have a full tee..
so much good here it might pass you by
rotation :start with the rod back at 7.00 learn to get your time right
Left hand: like Tommy said this is the part a lot of guy"s miss... the real hit
release: aim high,if you aim for the horizon you're way too low
A couple last points ,If you are casting in a field or open beach you can do "the dance"..it won't play on the end of a crowded tee or in waist deep water.
one last thing. if you are learning to cast in a limited field use a rigged baseball to work on your cast..its not eight unless you weight it but it will help greatly in teaching you the motions\timing.It also cuts down on walking the weight back in...put your time in on improving your cast... not finding gopher holes in the yard.
Seeya fellas, good to see so many old names,...Felt like walking on Avon... in the day...Wes


----------

