# Say goodbye to the Spit Tip :(



## Dr. Bubba (Nov 9, 1999)

Cdog just called, and said there are signs all over 15th View, Chela Ave, and Lea View...

Stating: RESIDENT PARKING EXCEPT HOLIDAYS
ZONE 14 PERMIT HOLDERS EXCEPTED

I have not run down there to confirm. They certainly weren't there last nite.

Clay said aside from that, there was barely a place to park anyway--looked like a party! Well, you bet your sweet arse there's a king hell of a party down there tonite!

I sure can't blame the folks that live there, that's for sure. You know how tired they must be of all us dumbasses coming down there and parking in front of there house? And the litter, as we all know is absolutely atrocious there. But, two PUBLIC beach accesses are located there. Is the city going to compensate this with PUBLIC parking?

Been fishing there since before they built that thing. BTW, it's a "terminal groin" and not a jetty...but alas, things have changed, for good or ill.

Indeed. Some say there is a silver lining to every cloud.

In the meantime, I think I'll go be :--|


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

same thing they did to croatan...and to make their point they towed 16 vehicales in one nite...if they put in a public lot, it won't be close to where you want to fish and will most likely be closer at night... :--|


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## Dixie719 (May 12, 2003)

Guess you can't say we didn't eventually see it coming!  

Would like to see what happens to the public access.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

How dare we park on public streets...

And another one bites the dust. They can call the beaches public, but if you can't park, you can't go.

Goodbye Willoughby.


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

Well the local residents of Norfolk can contact the city and request information on this. You have a right to complain about this since your tax dollars are paying for the city streets and this is access to public land. And also point out the allowing the building of Multi family housing in such a limited area is contributing to the problem. I guess they had a public hearing, but make sure they did.


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## Dr. Bubba (Nov 9, 1999)

yup, Digger, as I've had time to think about this and go down to check it out(and catch a coupla fish  ), I concur with you completely. 

1/2 block block walk is now over a half mile.....

Who says fishing ain't good excercise?


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Look at the bright side, they haven't put up a gate to keep people from walking in yet.... :--| 



Dr. Bubba said:


> 1/2 block block walk is now over a half mile.....
> 
> Who says fishing ain't good excercise?


So's picking out windknots huh...


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

Dr. Bubba said:


> Cdog just called, and said there are signs all over 15th View, Chela Ave, and Lea View...
> 
> Stating: RESIDENT PARKING EXCEPT HOLIDAYS
> ZONE 14 PERMIT HOLDERS EXCEPTED
> ...



what if ya got a hook up that lives around that area...heres ta hopin ya don't need no stinkin permit....We all know there ain't no fish @ the Spit,anyways


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## Dr. Bubba (Nov 9, 1999)

Dr. WindKnot at your service..........bring em on!I'm obviously good at em!


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Dr. Bubba said:


> Dr. WindKnot at your service..........bring em on!I'm obviously good at em!


Well as long as ya catch fish tween em its all good eh?  

But back to the subject at hand, is this a done deal and we are screwed once again? Got any Lawyers on board that can help?


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

*Its early but we might have*

We'll see.


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## Fishing_Feud (Nov 16, 2004)

*Bye bye*

willoughby :--| spit shall now be named willouby spat


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## Fishing_Feud (Nov 16, 2004)

and whats up with this except holidays stuff
Who decides what the holiday's are?

Everyday is a party for some and everyday is a holiday for others

The city needs to get voted off that island!


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## RoryGoggin (Jan 6, 2005)

This looks like what they used:



> Residential Parking Permit Program (RPPP)
> 
> The Residential Parking Permit Program was established to provide guideline and procedure when granting approval or denial for the establishment of RPPP Zone. A written request for the establishment of the zone for a particular area can be initiated by the residents or by the City staff. Please contact the Transportation Division for more information.


I've just now called 

GUZIN AKAN, P.E.
City Transportation Engineer 

City Hall Building - 810 Union Street - 2nd Floor
Norfolk, VA 23510
Phone: (757) 664-7300
Fax: (757) 664-7311
Email: [email protected]

requesting a return call regarding this matter, stating that, as a citizen of Norfolk and a disabled veteran I don't appreciate my already limited access to public park property being further limited.


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

You know there is now a Norfolk Angling Club. They are mostly boat guys but maybe you could get them on your side. Also look to the local bait and tackle shops for support. Contact City Councilmen. Oh, and ask for more trash cans.

I suspect that Norfolk has a process where you get everybody in a neighborhood to sign a petition and the streets get closed. I am glad that Virginia Beach does not do that down at 83rd street and Chic's Beach.



Tom


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## fishbone4_14_74 (Feb 7, 2005)

Now in this case the ? we need to ask is whats next. Its like we are being singled out here and i dont like that. We pay for the streets to be built, we pay for the people that do it, why should be singled out as fishermen cause the city doesnt know how to build things in a conjested area, as me this is Bulls&%t. Last time i checked this is the land of the free and if things arent broke why change them just for a few ppl when in the long run its is hurting alot more. I think we should fight for our public streets plus last time i was down there people that lived there had there own parking spots in there yards and so forth they pay for them use them and leave the streets to us. So whats next closure of beaches like there trying to do in the OBX. Fight for what is right we pay for them in taxes, and if they want the street down there let them pay for them and make it private, i dont work to pay for other peoples things.


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## RoryGoggin (Jan 6, 2005)

I'm still waiting for their return call, however further research shows that Section 25-286.1 of Norfolk City Code dose provide for the city manager to be authorized to designate roads, streets and other areas within the city to be restricted parking (permit holders in other words) if the residents wish it (75% must approve) and are willing to defray the costs. HOWEVER, in Sec.25-286.1(b)(8) The standards do require the he consider the need for some parking spaces to be available in the area under consideration for use by visitors and the general public. In my opinion this has not been done in this case. Also, I tried to find ANY information on a public hearing being held regarding this area and found none on-line. (City of Norfolk Public hearing notices are usually available on-line) and such a hearing is required under Sec.25-286.1(e)

I urge ALL of you fellow Norfolk City fishermen to join me in calling the City on this. I'll keep posting my progress and I ask that you do the same so we are all on the same page.


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## the rhondel (Feb 6, 2003)

Good job Rory...looks like ya discovered some potential ****** in the armor...I would urge all Norfolk residents to call ,iffn ya want reasonable access....don't let it turn into croatan or SB refuge.....the R


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## erfisher (Feb 9, 2004)

I don't live in Norfolk but I have to say this bites the big one. I don't know how else to say it. I guess Ocean View's crap doesn't stink anymore. Guess what, it is still a crime ridden, drug infested, crap hole (one that I like). This happens every time residents feel like they need to 'clean up' an area. They make it un-fun. All I can say is "kiss my grits" I have a kayak. I guess these a holes will eventually find a way to ban that too.


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## jay b (Dec 1, 2002)

Just one more reason to get a YAK. You can fish that spot and the whole HRBT for a $5.00 launch fee at the marina. DuckInn is going to fall to the same problem later this summer, where's/what's next ??  

Cory said it in the first TKAA meeting, a YAK is the best pair of waders you'll ever buy. To H#!! with the land-owners and the cities, let them have "their" beaches.


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## rockhead (Nov 6, 2002)

yep parking is a real pain, I live on a dead end portion of 9th st about 2 blocks from the vb oceanfront, because its a deadend, there are no restrictions with onstreet parking, and of course everyone knows it. during the summer the street is packed solid with cars, trash everywhere, crying kids and babies in the morning, it sucks. god forbid some homeowner get hurt and call an ambulance or fire truck because between all the parked cars, there is not enough room to squeeze a truck in, sometimes I can barely get my 1500 in. I have spoke with the police many times and apparently there is nothing they can do. My point is that it sucks at the spit because I have enjoyed that spot over the years quite a bit, but good for the homeowners on that street, they will get the piece and quiet that they paid for!


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

RH part of the problem is the number of multi units that the city allowed to be built in that area. I also believe it is the complex at the end of the street that is the catalyst(the one with the pier and boat).


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

We all have our rights the area I think that is being discussed is a public beach landing and is opened to the public and there should be no off limit zones there. I do not park further down the road I park right where the public ramp is so it should not be any inconvenience to ANY of there residence in the area.


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## erfisher (Feb 9, 2004)

The people who live there knew that the beach is owned by the public when they moved there. The govt. even pays to get the beach replentished when it gets blown away by a hurricane. Shoot, a hurricane made the spit in the first place. Maybe the whole freakin' place will get washed away by the next one! 

I don't feel sorry for the greedy jerks that had the signs put up. If they don't like people parking in that street they should move out to suburbia or the country. The beach belongs to everyone and there should at least be SOME parking to access it.


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## Dr. Bubba (Nov 9, 1999)

Unfortunately, Fishman, that stretch of 15th View is also signed.....


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

Bubba that SUCKS also!


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## OVFISH (Apr 1, 2005)

:--| :--| :--| :--| :--|


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## reelrebel18 (Oct 13, 2004)

:--| :--| :--| :--| :--| 
we need to make an organization like OBPA
:--| :--| :--| :--| :--|  :--|


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## chest2head&glassy (Jul 2, 2002)

The VA Pilot runs the "Pilot Warrior" article now (same as the old Road Warrior articles but now you know WHO is writing the article). He takes input for stories to investigate regarding traffic or parking issues. This maybe a great story for him to find out about and investigate. Of all the stories I've read, they usually end up with getting the issue fixed. It's worth a shot.

Contact Info:
John Warren 
[email protected]


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## striperswiper (Nov 30, 2004)

damn that flippen sucks good thing i only have to walk 2 blocks to get there its a cryin shame the city would do that :--|


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## Dr. Bubba (Nov 9, 1999)

I guess no return call yet, huh Rory?
I've met Guzin before but know if she'll be the one to actually return your call. But if she does, she seems pretty mild mannered.

I think you have truly gotten to the nut of the issue, though. If advertised public meetings weren't held, and "the need for some parking spaces to be available in the area under consideration for use by visitors and the general public" wasn't considered. Then there is a problem.

In addition there is the access issue. Is that the next step? I dunno, but two public beach accesses with no public parking is a certainly a problem. Especially when a report recently rated Norfolk deficient on green or open space, and council member defended that the beaches were actually open space and not included in the report. Our money went to sand replenishment out there last fall. Restricting access shortly after using federal dollars ain't exactly smart or legal either.

I say every Norfolk citizen send an email or call Guzin in relation to the new restrictions and whether the process was followed correctly, and make sure to bring up the public beach access issue in conjuction with the parking. If they get even 5 letters on this, they'll think thousands of folks have a problem with it--and should respond.

And if not.....we go Chest2head route, and get em a little sweaty by REALLY bringing folks attention to it!


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

ss...post your address...we will all park in your yard...lol...mr rg posted some interesting sections of city ordinance...the problem w/ the first is the builder counts a all future occupants ...if he is building 10 units he gets 10 votes...and can use this as a selling tool..."private street for residents only"...NORFOLK is taking lessons from the beach...put it to a vote...do you want it... "NO"...well we will do it anyway :--| on the people...i just told my mom about this and she said "thats not right, i have to call and complaine"...go get'em mom...


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## RoryGoggin (Jan 6, 2005)

No, I still had gotten no reply as of yesteday close of business.  I guess they are trying to get their story straight as I understand Catman32 got a bit of a runaround (and they backpeddled really fast when he started quoting the code to them and asking when the public meeting was held and said "they were looking into it and maybe the signs were put up prematurely" and then said they could only discuss it with Willoughby residents and HE stated "I AM a Willoughby resident." (Which he is) LOL and they are going to get back to him. 

I'm going to try again today, and if I don't get to speak to someone I think I'm going to start visiting our city officials in person.


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

Rory wrote quoting catman22 -- "Catman32 got a bit of a runaround (and they backpeddled really fast when he started quoting the code to them and asking when the public meeting was held and said "they were looking into it and maybe the signs were put up prematurely" and then said they could only discuss it with Willoughby residents and HE stated "I AM a Willoughby resident." (Which he is) LOL and they are going to get back to him."

Although the city employees may only want to talk to ocean view residents the city council men from other wards will certainly want to hear from Norfolk residents in their districts. You guys are right this is a public beach not just a beach for the residents. IT IS NOT PUBLIC IF THERE IS NO WHERE TO PARK. It only takes 5 or 10 calls to get thier attention.

Catman22 when you call ask for the reasons. If one of the reasons is trash ask the city how many public trash cans are located where people would use them. If it is drinking in public, etc. ask the city to get proper enforcement, as there are laws against that. In addition to fighting for the publics right to use the beach address the problems.

Oh and here is another thing. If you do get the parking back do an adopt a spot from PierAndSurf.com, then work to keep the area picked up.

Tom


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

tom p has the right idea...if we just let them do it they will...the home owners don't want my "91" parked in front of their 700k homes...tuff...if the builder guarenteed resident only...sue the builder...or have the city build a 1700' pier at the spit...with plenty of parking...they do that and i will not park on the rich peoples streets...


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## RoryGoggin (Jan 6, 2005)

I'm working on this - BUT if anyone knows of a Norfolk Resident P&Ser PLEASE have them post a "I support this fight" so I can have some idea as to how many P&Sers I'm representing when I go "lobby" our city council.

Tom - I appreciate any and all advice you can give me.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

RoryGoggin said:


> I'm working on this - BUT if anyone knows of a Norfolk Resident P&Ser PLEASE have them post a "I support this fight" so I can have some idea as to how many P&Sers I'm representing when I go "lobby" our city council.
> 
> Tom - I appreciate any and all advice you can give me.


You could also go with the angle of out of towners (tourons so to say  ) that wont spend their money in Norfolk because of this situation. Count me as one!


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

"I support this fight"


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## Fish4Food (Jun 17, 2004)

Seems like we could do a better job at being more proactive in our efforts to preserve our love of fishing. It would be nice to have a voice in these matters before they become problems. I like what Rory is doing, taking action. Maybe you can post the phone numbers of the Norfolk City Offices that you've been calling, or any numbers to councilmen for the OV area. We could stage a FISH-IN and show up in FORCE one weekend to peacefully protest and fish of course, and maybe clean up a few miles of beach while we're at it. Something to attract the media... God knows they will swarm to any controversy. But we could get ourselves noticed as a serious group of concerned fishermen and possible effect change in the future. Just a thought. If we present a United Front I'm sure we could effect change in a positive way! I'm not a Norfolk resident but I'm willing to dedicate time, money and effort to save shore fishing and I have a wife and 2 sons that would be right by my side.. so that is 4 people on Willoughby Beach!! 

I could see the news cameras now capturing a line of 25 of us walking with rods and tackle a 1/2 mile down ocean view ave to get to 15th view... that is a powerful shot/picture!

I think this group could ultimately turn into a powerful lobby, because we all have something in common, we all dedicate alot of time and $$$ to our passion, which is all money that feeds the local economy and we all have a voice with a righteous message. 

Just my 2 cents.


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## Advisor (Jan 12, 2003)

I'm not a resident; but, I have my roots in Norfolk and learned to fish at willoughby and little bay when I was a child [1948].

You have my full backing and encouragement. It's high time we started to speak out as a group and NOT get walked on as in the past. Maybe it's time we start looking to see who is involved in this fiasco.

GO GET'UM RORY!!!


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## Jake Ace (May 4, 2000)

Well, well, well ... you didn't have to be Fortune-teller to see this coming.

Park in somebody else's driveway. Disrespect their property. Urinate in their bushes. Smoke dope under their parking structure. Have relations with your significant other on their stairwell. Leave trash on their beaches. Break into their parked cars and whaddaya get?

No trespassing.

And some of what I listed up there was actually done by fisherman visiting the area.

THROW THE BIG ONES BACK

Jake Ace


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## catman32 (Apr 20, 2005)

But not by everyone.I live in willoughby and i fish there i learned to fish there.As far as what i see ,95 % of the people that fish there do not do these things.The people i fish with actually spend the first 15-20 min every time out to clean up.It will happen,everywhere.We cannot stop it,but we can argue it and fight it.I have also made calls to the city and they are not coming up with anything.No response to the codes or any of it.They cannot give me any info.They say they will get back with me.


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## Dr. Bubba (Nov 9, 1999)

Keep in mind, Jake, that those instances are not necessarily caused by fisherpeople, although I'm sure some are capable.

Despite the negative element, which occurs just about everywhere, there is some evidence that the City may have not followed it's own rules in this matter. In addition, PUBLIC access to PUBLIC beach has been seriously hampered at two locations, if not de-facto eliminated. I'm sorry, but I'm not cool with that! Everyone reading this has helped pay to put sand on those beaches last fall, as public beach projects are heavily funded by federal dollars.

I'm very interested in the way catman was treated. Seems like someone is saying "uh oh".

More to come!


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## Jake Ace (May 4, 2000)

That's right.

I was making light of the fact that it's NOT too many of us doing those things. We're all pretty good about respecting the laws and such ... but we're the ones that are going to take the beating on this.

THROW THE BIG ONES BACK

Jake Ace


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## Caught Myself (Sep 14, 2004)

rattler said:


> same thing they did to croatan


Yep, a few jerks spoiled it and everyone else suffered. Money talks, everyone else walks.


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## RoryGoggin (Jan 6, 2005)

Back to constructive progress:

I received a return phone call from a Mr. John Steveson who will be sending me transcripts etc. from the "public hearing" - a civic league meeting! Only residents of the area were invited! IMNSHO this is NOT a public hearing. I've heard from Catman32 that someone downtown contacted him who agrees with me, but I'll let him tell us about that.


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

I am confident that a meeting that was not advertised as a public hearing and open to the general public with appropriate accommodations for handicapped individuals does not meet the standards in state law. 

The question is: Was there a reference to a state code section in the Norfolk code relating to this process. 

Keep after them. Call city council men. Get some press. Where is NewsJeff for advice on the latter.

Just remember address the issues (other than I don't like looking at other folks cars parked in front of my house) that caused the problem. 

Tom


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## cobia77 (Jan 17, 2003)

*The people at the end of the street*

Digger irt those people, those pockets are deep with good city connections. I was wondering how long it would be after the old crotchity commander moved in there before it would go down hill. (hint,hint). I have fished down there like the rest of you for years. It all comes down to the all mighty tax dollar. thats what makes it suck. All we can do is fight. I live in suffolk now but I still make that drive JUST TO FISH. So hell for what ever IAM IN. If they did it right we dont stand a chance, but if they didnt this old chief will tell the commander to stand by for heavy rolls.


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## Fishing_Feud (Nov 16, 2004)

The spits days are numbered hurricane season is coming

might be a few years decades or such but its a coming

Judy Booone will be crying a bucket full of croakers


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

Here is the city code section that has all the whys where-fors and how-to. It does have a section relating to the public hearing process. This is what needs to be addressed.

Tom

Sec. 25-286.1. Designation of parking permit areas.

(a) Establishment. The city manager is hereby authorized to designate, by written order or regulation, roads, streets and other areas within the city in which the parking of vehicles may be restricted, in whole or in part, during certain specified times, to holders of valid parking permits issued pursuant to this section. The city manager shall consider the institution of a parking permit system upon petition by the residents of a given area as provided herein. The authority granted herein shall be in addition to, and may be exercised in conjunction with, any other authority the city manager may have to regulate the times and conditions of motor vehicle parking.

(b) Standards. The designation of a parking permit area shall take into account, among other things:

(1) The effect on the safety of residents of the area under consideration from intensive use by nonresidents for parking of vehicles.

(2) The need of the residents of the area to obtain adequate on-street parking adjacent to or close by their places of residence.

(3) The difficulty or inability of residents of the area to secure adequate on-street parking adjacent to or close by their places of residence because of widespread use of available parking spaces in that area by nonresident transient motorists.

(4) The impact of major public facilities and programs on the health, safety and welfare of the residents of the area and any unreasonable burdens placed on those residents in securing adequate on-street parking and gaining access to their places of residence by virtue of such facilities and programs.

(5) The likelihood of alleviating, by use of a parking permit system, any problem of nonavailability of residential parking spaces.

(6) The desire of the residents in the area for the institution of a parking permit system and the willingness of those residents to bear the administrative costs incidental to the issuance of permits authorized by this section.

(7) The fact that the residents of a contemplated parking permit area have contributed to the cost of construction and/or improvement of streets and roads in such area either by the direct assessment of costs or indirectly to the extent such costs are reflected in purchase or rental prices paid by those residents.

(8) The need for some parking spaces to be available in the area under consideration for use by visitors and the general public.

(9) Such other factors as the city manager shall deem relevant.

(c) Initiation of petition:

(1) Residents within a particular district or a distinct portion of a district in which residential uses are permitted may petition the city manager for the establishment of an on-street permit parking district. Such petitions shall be on forms prepared and promulgated by the director of the department of public works. Petitions shall be submitted to the director of public works who shall determine their sufficiency. Any insufficient petition shall be remanded to the individual submitting it, with instructions for correction of deficiencies. A petition found sufficient shall be forwarded to the city manager for further action as set forth in paragraphs (d) through (f).

(2) No petition shall be deemed sufficient unless the same be signed by representatives of seventy-five (75) percent of the households within the proposed parking district.

(d) Action on petition. When a petition has been found to be sufficient by the director of public works, it shall be referred to the city manager for authorization of necessary traffic engineering studies.

(e) Public hearing:

(1) Following the completion of such studies and in order to determine whether a particular area or location should be designated as a parking permit area, the city manager or his designee shall conduct, prior to the designation of parking permit area, or prior to the withdrawal of such designation once it is established, a public hearing at which time any interested person shall be entitled to appear and be heard. Such hearing shall be held only after due notice has been published in a newspaper of general circulation throughout the city. The notice shall clearly state the purpose of the hearing, and the exact location and boundaries of the parking permit area under consideration.

(2) Within forty-five (45) days following the close of the public hearing, the city manager shall decide, based on the record of that hearing and the studies authorized by him, whether or not to designate the area under consideration as a parking permit area or to remove the designation in the case of an established parking permit area. The time for decision by the city manager may be extended for an additional period of thirty (30) days.

(f) Designation of parking permit area:

(1) Following the designation of a parking permit area by the city manager, he shall cause to be posted parking signs in the area, indicating the times, locations and conditions under which parking shall be by permit only.

(2) The issuance of parking decals shall be by the commissioner of revenue as provided in paragraph (g).

(g) Issuance of decals; proration:

(1) A fee of ten dollars ($10.00) per annum shall be charged for the issuance of each parking decal for use on cars registered to bona fide residents of the district in a restricted parking district of the city. The fees collected will (7) be used by the city to defray the cost of enforcement of this section and rules, regulations, and orders promulgated by the city manager. Parkingdecals shall be issued on an annual basis by the commissioner of revenue for the period commencing at 12:01 a.m., June first and expiring at midnight May thirty-first of the following year.

(2) For a parking decal issued pursuant to this section and purchased after November thirtieth and prior to March first, which decal shall expire at midnight on May thirty-first following, the fee shall be five dollars ($5.00); for a parking decal purchased during the period commencing March first, which parking decal shall expire at midnight May thirty-first, the fee shall be three dollars ($3.00).

(3) Each household qualified pursuant to this section to purchase an annual parking decal shall be issued one complimentary visitor's pass for the use of visitors of such purchaser while residing or visiting on a temporary basis in the home or dwelling place of such purchaser. Such passes shall be subject to any rules and regulations established covering their use.

(4) Additional temporary parking passes shall be issued to be valid for a period not exceeding one calendar month to accommodate unusual visiting requirements for a fee of two dollars ($2.00) each to holders of annual passes.

(5) Decals, temporary and visitors passes are not transferable. If a resident trades a vehicle, he shall carefully scrape the decal from the bumper and return it with his permit form to the commissioner of revenue for issuance of a new sticker at no cost. Abuse of these regulations may be grounds for revocation of parking pass privileges by the city.

(6) The annual decal shall be displayed on left rear bumper of the vehicle. Visitor and temporary parking passes shall be displayed in the left rear window of the vehicle. In the absence of a window, it shall be prominently displayed to be visible to a vehicle approaching from the rear.

(7) Decals that have been lost, stolen or destroyed may be reissued for a charge of one dollar ($1.00).

(h) Enforcement:

(1) Enforcement of parking regulations shall not be effective until thirty (30) days after signs delineating the parking restrictions have been posted. Emergency and service vehicles when on a call or delivery shall be exempt. Purchase of a parking decal or display of one will not guarantee the holder of a parking place nor exempt a vehicle operator from any City Code regulation governing parking on city streets.

(2) Construction and utility vehicles performing work on streets in the district as well as boat, house and utility trailers shall be exempt from these regulations.

(i) Violations and penalties. It shall be unlawful to park any vehicle or use any parking permit in a manner contrary to the provisions established by the city manager pursuant to this section and any person parked in violation of any regulation or sign in any district shall be punished as provided in section 25-295, and any motor vehicle so parked may be towed by or at the direction of the department of police.

(j) Amendments. The city manager is hereby authorized to amend district parking regulations from time to time.

(Ord. No. 31,034, § 1, 3-10-81; Ord. No. 38,549, § 1, 10-29-96)

Editor's note: Ord. No. 31,034, § 1, adopted March 10, 1981, added§ 29-602.01 to the 1958 Code; the editor has included these provisions as§ 25-286.1 hereof. Paragraph (k), severability, has been omitted to preserve Code format.


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

For starters you should be asking 

1. When the public hearing was held?

2. Was it actually open to the public with appropriate provisions for the handicapped, etc.

3. When was the public notice published in the paper and on line for that public hearing?

Those are clear due process matters that could void the current situation. 

Since there is a need for parking for visitors and the general public, what consideration was given to that factor.

BTW you should be asking for an appointment with the City Manager either directly or with the assistance of a city council person. 

Tom


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

Thanks Tom Excellent infomation as usual.


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## Dr. Bubba (Nov 9, 1999)

Yes! Excellent Tom! 

As soon as I get my letter written, I will let folks know, and anyone will be welcome to use any or all of it.

Thanks a bunch for tracking that down. You need to change your screen name to Code Guru!


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

And one more thing. Somewhere when I was looking for this I found the zoning ordaninces regarding residential neighborhoods. It stated that they were requied to have 2 off street parking spots per house. If they have 2 spots per house then they have less of a case for limiting on street parking.

Tom


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## Advisor (Jan 12, 2003)

Thanks Tom. Good tips!!


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

OK so somebody please update me on this one. as Sand flea went and goofed things up. (I hate it when that happens work all day on something and and the computer crashes before you save. Or worse yet you intentionally (and stupidly) click on the do not save changes button.)

I think I saw a post that Andy Fox was poking around on the issue. What channel does he work for? I hope that he read the tread for background material before he started.

Tom


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

Andy Fox is looking into it I believe he is on 10. He interviewed Rory on the issue and was supposed to speak to somebody from Norfolk(not in parking since they will not talk to him) NewsJeff expects it to be on the 6pm news. It also appears the Public hearing has been forgone. Oh they also have issued tickets inside the 30day grace period. All this from my memory which is rotten.


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## Dr. Bubba (Nov 9, 1999)

well, we certainly lost quite a few posts on this thread. Thankfully, Jake Ace made a copy of a couple.

here's mine:
Dr. Bubba 
P&S Supporter Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 320 

Jeff, the Andy was a trip.

Indeed, Rory and Bubba stir the pot with the help of Andy Fox. Love him or hate him, he goes after these stories with a zeal I truly admire!

He interviewed Rory and I concerning the parking situation and the de-facto elimination of Public beach access due to not being able to park. And also the parking ticket I received tuesday evening out there. According to the code they are not to start enforcement until 30 days after signs are put up. 

But, Andy was walking all up and down the street, stopping cars, talking to residents, calling city officials..... All of the residents mentioned "the fisherman" of course. But he kept asking them, this is public beach access, shouldn't people have somewhere to park? And they all agreed. According to Andy, this is to air tomorrow. Jeff, can you confirm this?

Anywhoo. This gig ain't over. It's becoming increasingly suspect on whether a required public hearing was held. Most likely someone with influence helped ram this through. Please call, write, whatever...Norfolk Officials and ask why there was no public hearing and when there will be one!

and here is Jeff's:
Newsjeff 
P&S Supporter Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicks Beach
Posts: 489 

Yes, the story will air Friday. I'm 99.9% sure it will run in the 6pm show. I'll know for sure tomorrow. 
Andy has an interview set up with the City's P-R guy sometime in the afternoon. I understand the parking officials won't talk to him any more??
Andy says he thinks the no parking signs will come down. We'll see.
You're right, Dr. B, love him or hate him ... Andy is very, very good at his job. 
The guy does a live colonoscopy on Wednesday and is out chasing cars on Thursday. 
Stay tuned.


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

channel 10...


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## the rhondel (Feb 6, 2003)

I thought I heard Fox say 6pm tonite(FRI)....the R


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## Nick (Jul 21, 2001)

Not sure who watched Wavy 10 news tonight, but apparantly the parking there is 2 hour parking from March to October and no restrictions outside of those months. There supposed to do something to make the signs more clear about when you can park there. They also said they are gonna do a petition to open up 15st to public parking again. they even interviewed a resident and he said it was BS that they put up those signs on 15th.

Nick


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## russ722 (May 30, 2005)

can we still fish at the point off of 15th street? i was planning on going tommorow, ill get dropped off .


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

From what everybody has been saying it was just a no parking deal. I wonder how good a bike lock works for locking a pier cart to one of the no parking signs. Park a little further away and walk or bike your gear in. I know lots of folks that will backpack in for a good brook trout stream.

Tom


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## Caught Myself (Sep 14, 2004)

Tom Powers said:


> I know lots of folks that will backpack in for a good brook trout stream.
> 
> Tom


So do I, Tom. Good point.
George


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Caught Myself said:


> So do I, Tom. Good point.
> George


Well alot of them chose to do that.There used to be two,thats 2 beach access points right there. Well they are still there if you are willing to walk a half mile from the nearest parking area.... :--|


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## russ722 (May 30, 2005)

Is the 15th view street the only way to acess the spit tip?what about getting there from behind the resturant?


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## GoCowboys (May 27, 2005)

Don't get the the rocks from behind the resturant. It's private property. The ppl with the boats called the cops on us and we got a warning and one guy got a ticket for fishin w/o a license and now from what I hear that have patched up the big hole in the fence so no body can go under and fish under the tunnel. Who knows. I think I'm gonna contact Wavy 10 and see what they can do to help up with this parking thing. I love to fish with my husband but at 6 months pregnant i'm not walking 2 miles b/c of no parking to the public. Good job to all of you who have put alot of effort into this!!!


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## RoryGoggin (Jan 6, 2005)

GoCowboys said:


> Who knows. I think I'm gonna contact Wavy 10 and see what they can do to help up with this parking thing. I love to fish with my husband but at 6 months pregnant i'm not walking 2 miles b/c of no parking to the public. Good job to all of you who have put alot of effort into this!!!


Um...Wavy TV 10 - been there done that - that was at the beginning of this. Now it is up to us as Jeff Fox left it to us to get the leg work done on getting petitions signed. Any volunteers to get signatures? Please email me.


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## Dr. Bubba (Nov 9, 1999)

Hey GoCowboys...

Gritting my teeth not to make an anti cowboys comment....  

Here's the link to the story on channel ten:
WAVY 10 Story 

Other than that, we need help!
Letters to city council, whether you live in Norfolk or not, will make a difference. Advisor wrote a nice letter from a non norfolk perspective(don't have the link). Either way, a short letter staying on message will go a long way. Contact me if you want any help.

Signing the petition will help. 
Please contact Rory if you are concerned about this issue. I'm afraid to say, if this one slides through, there will be more access limited in the future.

I saw another thread about Bucket organizing some cleanup out there for Clean the Bay Day, Way to go Man!!! I've got some stories about the first Clean the Bay Day for ya. 

That's one of the residents biggest gripes. The litter. Keep it clean folks, we may just get this hole back!


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

they did the same thing at croatan...got a lot to park in...1/4 mile walk...and it closes at sundown...


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## RoryGoggin (Jan 6, 2005)

Bump it up!

Don't forget this guys.


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