# Grandview



## nnsecu (Nov 16, 2001)

Was out ther saturday night. i saw a few sharks caught and walked on the pier just in time to see a guy get a couple of tickets from "THE MAN" for keeping undersized fish. Got him for keeping sea bass, and i think he had a small flounder. Besides that not much action on the pier. I think "The Man" scared the fish


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## skunked (Jun 4, 2001)

Wellllllll maybe in this case the MAN should keep on keepin on?


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

A nd people said "THE MAN" never came out there.


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## Zigh (May 2, 2002)

*About time*

Thanks for the report. Did you see any Trout around? I haven't made it down in a couple of weeks. I'm glad to hear somebody finally went out and issued some citations though.... maybe it'll be incentive for some of the other 'fools' to stop keeping anything and everything they catch. It's a real bummer watching parents teach their kids to kill 'em all.......... I suppose ignorance is bliss, but I have no problem laying an earful on the violators. Fish On

.........and obey the rules.

Zigh
><((((*>


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## Freddrum (May 19, 2000)

Thank God for the MAN.......keeps the chumps from keeping undersized drum as "spot"


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## fishwagon (Sep 25, 2002)

More fuzz=more fish 
Less fuzz=morons keeping virgin guppies 

Morons make the fish go away.
Fuzz makes the morons go away
That's the good fuzz


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## inawe (May 24, 2003)

amen to that fishwagon  never say never for THE MAN


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## Wilber (May 20, 2003)

I live close to Grandview Pier and we like to have a fat burger and a cocktail or two at Fish Tails. Afterwards the boys and I like to take a stroll on the pier and see what's happening.
I can't tell you how many times I have called The Man for under sized fish. I first tell the people the fish are not legal size, if I get a ration of crap, I make the call. If the folks say they were not aware of the rules and they won't do it again, I let it slide.
I am not the fish police, I am a fisherman with kids. My boys keep what we want to eat and release what we won't. Earlier this year the middle boy and I were on the way to Hatteras to try for a Cobia from the beach, middle boy asked if I brought the camera. He said he wanted a picture of his Cobia if he caught one before he released it. "That's my Boy".
The point is, the Fish and Game Guys are spread thin, sometimes they need a little help. I'm not saying to become the "Fish Natizs", but a group of Recs who think they are intitled to keep anything they catch can do some harm to a body of fish.

PS You should'a seen the peoples faces on the Outer Banks Pier when we released a 40lb. Cobia a few years back.


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## Kajun (Jul 13, 2003)

i dont agree with calling game wardens on ppl...down in louisiana thats not a wise thing to do if you value your health lol...i'd just remind them of the rules and regs and let them make their own decision if they want to break the law or not... and they have to face the consquences of they are caught.......i'm one of those ppl that believe virginia's laws are WAY too anal retentive.....if you've lived here all your life..then you might not know what i'm talking about lol i really belive they should relax some of these ridiculous size limits...a combination of reasonable size and bag limits is the way to go ..but again..thats just my opinion

commericial fisherman and sometimes mother nature are the ones to blame for fish stocks being depleted not recreational ppl...but we are the ones who usually end up suffering for it...


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## hic-lock (Jun 27, 2001)

I couldn’t disagree with you more.

The recreational angler population take a lot fish from these waters legally and illegally, that’s a fact, and it can be proven. 

As far as the comms. go, lets not forget where the restaurants, bait shops, and grocery stores get there seafood from.

FISH HARD!


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## FishSlaya (Aug 9, 2001)

*"The Man"*

I will give people a warning, just cause i would hope if i was doing something wrong they would do the same for me. But if you are an ass about it i will call the marine patrol on my cell phone while i am staring you in the face.


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## Kajun (Jul 13, 2003)

its ok to disagree thats part of what makes forums interesting and informational.


if you have any documentation or links that would prove to me that recreational fisherman are the ones to blame for the depletion of the fishing stocks it would be greatly appreciated.and no i cant forget about commercial fisherman...i am reminded everytime i walk into a grocery store seafood dept. to see undersized flounder being sold legally in the same state that tells a recreational fisherman he cant keep anything under 17.5


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

The whole commercials vs. recreationals thing is really a complicated issue. It's species-by-species.

For instance, commercials take massive amounts of crabs, swordfish, flounder, panfish like spot and croaker, etc.

But other species like stripers and redfish (that were almost wiped out by overfishing, mainly by commercials) now are primarily taken by recreational anglers. 

From the ASMFC (Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission) striper page :

_Commercial harvest peaked at almost 15 million pounds in 1973, then declined to 3.5 million pounds in 1983, a 77 percent decrease. During early to mid-1980s, a number of states closed their striped bass fisheries in order to initiate rebuilding of the stocks. The commercial fishery grew slowly under a partial reopening of state waters in the early 1990s, with coastwide harvest rising from 825,000 pounds in 1990 to 2.01 million pounds in 1994. Most of this growth resulted from the fact that Maryland was permitted to impose flexible quotas that have risen with increasing stock size.
Under recently restored fisheries, commercial harvest has grown from 3.7 million pounds in 1995 to six million pounds in 2000.

The growing popularity of saltwater recreational fishing since the 1960s and 1970s, and the lack of recreational harvest caps in most states, has led to the sport fishing sector landing a larger percentage of the total catch. Recent recreational harvest has grown from 3.1 million pounds in 1990 to a record high of 17.1 million pounds in 2000. The Marine Recreational Fisheries Statistics Survey, administered by the National Marine Fisheries Service, estimated that sport fishing trips for striped bass increased from 247,000 trips in 1990 to 691,000 in 1997._

So as you can see, here's an example of a species that recreationals harvest far more of. I'm not saying the commercials haven't caused massive damage to fish stocks; I'm only saying that we have to remember that we take our fair share as well.

I've met plenty of enforcement officials that are absolute hardasses; they're like Barney Fife on crystal meth...so I'm not saying that they're always perfect. But in the end, our regulations are set by fisheries scientists who are doing all they can to manage our stocks.

I don't think we should be tattle tales, but when I see someone keeping a bucketful of undersized fish, I tactfully remind them of the regulations. If they tell me to shove it, I reach for the cell phone.

If you'd like to learn more about how our Atlantic fisheries are allocated, check out this page from the ASMFC, the group that regulates all Atlantic species.

Sorry about the long post...


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## FL FISHERMAN (Sep 30, 2002)

There some REAL information from the "scientists" themselves. I really don't think they can take into consideration all the poaching going on with most species. Like sandflea said there is blame on both sides with different types of fish.


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## JerryB (May 15, 2003)

well stated Cdog, over here in michigan we are having the same debate about perch in lake michigan and lake erie, the commercials have been cut back and the recreationals too(from 50 to 30 per day), we'll see if it makes a difference. my main point in bringing this up is that these are big fisheries ( not as big as the ocean of course) and both commercial and rec harvesting has made a big dent in the population. 

another example from here is a lake known as flethcer pond, though not a pond at 9000 acres, it WAS the best perch fishing spot in michigan, until ice fishing caught on there 15 years ago. before that you could boat a limit of 8-12 inch perch everyday and be on the water with only two or three other boats, then ice fishing kicks in and 5 or so years later you can still boat your limit but fish over 8 inches are few. today there are still plenty of perch you can get your limit of 5-7 inchers everyday and the pkie have all they need to eat(this lake is considered the best pike lake in michigan for numbers of legal size fish), if pike fishing through the ice catches on they'll be decimated in two or three years. 

i believe that overharvesting by recreational anglers CAN impact fish populations in bodies of water, but i would suppose that in the ocean or large bays it would take a longer period of overharvesting to become a big problem. 

in the end we need to do some research to better understand the levels of harvesting that are sustainable for fish with commercial value, some guys on here are helping with that type of effort by tagging flounder. until we know what the populations can handle we are going to harm some species.


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## emanuel (Apr 2, 2002)

I'm not sure about all the stats on rec vs. commercial fish harvest but I feel that the law is the law. No matter who else is breaking it, it doesn't make it any less wrong for you to violate the regulations regardless of how badly the commercial folks are destroying the fish stocks. 

As for calling the law, it's not something I do often. Something like keeping undersized spots or whiting, I'll let the law deal with it on their own. However, try and stick a 40" red drum in your cooler and the law will be there on my call before that cooler gets halfway to the car. Haven't had to do that yet, but I will if it ever happens.


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## Kajun (Jul 13, 2003)

thanks for the links sand flea,lots of good reading there..thats what i was looking for....my point was rec fisherman are not the blame for depleteing fisheries...and looking at the striper bass and flounder page strip charts tells me that in the 1970's the commercial fisherman raped the fisheries in both species..you'll see on both how the harvests went down dramatically..and how only in the past couple of years that recreational fishing increased as to pass up commercials(which is a good thing to me)...but one thing i dont like about these reports is how they lump together charters,head boats and the average fisherman together......to me if you make money off of fishing..then your commerical....sportfishing charters are businesses......when i go on the beach..i'm going to have fun and maybe take home a couple of filets for dinner, thats recreational to me..

but as you said the comm.vs rec fisherman issue is complicated.....dont get me wrong i'm all for size limits and bag limits , i just think virginia is going alil overboard in thier size limits..take a look at other state limits... since i've lived in virginia i havent eaten one single fish..i've caught and released every one of them....sure i like to eat fish..but i'm too damn lazy to clean them most of the time so i release them lol...

also i'm totally against poaching because if i have to follow the law i expect other ppl to do the same lol but getting ppl in trouble with the law is not my thing...if they continue, they will get caught eventually cause they are greedy.

i guess what it comes down to in my book is that i hate the fact that a man with a commercial boat can take thousands of lbs of flounder at sizes under the rec size but yet i cant go fishing and bring myself back a couple of filets to make a fried flounder sandwich lol


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## inawe (May 24, 2003)

you right but who;s to say that every fisher [person d ] does the same thats bull' to know a netter person is out from ya 200 300 yrds on a drop aff tearn um up all you get is a couple of fillets come on this craps been goin on for years and no doubt they sell clean;d fish in the store i like clean n mine myself  come on fall hurry up please


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## Wilber (May 20, 2003)

Graphs, Charts, Landing numbers, Coms vs Recs. It all makes interesting chat but the truth is this. The number of fisherman will do nothing but increase, the number of fish (without proper management) will do nothing but decrease. Like I said before "I got kids" and it would be nice for them to fish with their kids. If people sit on a pier or wherever and teach their kids that it OK to kill every thing they catch, then we might as well all go home.
Let's face it folks, it is a little easier to live by the rules than it is to try and sell all your fishing gear when their are no more fish to catch. Don't stick your head in the sand and say "It won't happen here" cause it will. Just teach your kids the right way to fish and follow the rules and you have done a great service to the sport.


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## 1mocast (Jul 11, 2003)

*I'm with Kajun*

I know a lot of you don't agree, But I'm with Kajun. Everyone who wants to keep a filet from each trip should not be labeled as a bad sportsman. Like I said before I've spent 3-4 hours fishing for flounder and threw back over 15 fish in one trip only to stop at the market and purchase fish smaller than the ones I threw back. I deem myself as a responsible sportsman never keeping more than my family eats (unless grandma tells me to go out and catch some croakers for the Church Fish-fry.. lol) but lets be realistic I can fish for 100 trips and The Comm. can delete the stock more than I can with one swoop of the net. Is it really fair for the state to set the limit at 17.5" Some of you say yes, But I'm not in the habit of fishing 4 hours just to keep one fish, Fishing is a passion of mine and I always throw back the small ones but to me a 15.5" flounder is right for the frying


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## Wilber (May 20, 2003)

Ya' know I see your point.
But, you like catching nice Stripers don't you, think about it.


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## 1mocast (Jul 11, 2003)

*SURE*

Everyone likes a nice striper but lets face it, no-one needs to keep more than 2--I've never kept 2 myself once I get the big one I pack up and go home, fire up the grill and run to Food Lion for a 12 pack.. But the Comm. on the other hand will net a whole lot of schoolies in one swoop. The majority of the time they kill them and leave them in the water to prevent going over their llimit. Now who doing more to hurt the stripper population? My one fish or their 1000?


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## Wilber (May 20, 2003)

I think you missed my point. The limits are made for a reason, that's all I'm saying. It worked to bring back the Stripers, it can work to bring back the Flounders.
On the Comm. thing, They wiped out the Stripers in the first place, I don't disagree. The mentality of the Comms. sometimes is hard to figure, They act like they must catch all of them before they are gone, not all of them but there are a few.
I sometimes think it's a Target and Destory Mission, fish'em till their gone and move on.


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## 1mocast (Jul 11, 2003)

*point taken*

Even though I complain about the size limit I must say that since they changed it to 17.5 the amount of fish you can catch at one outing has increased. I've never been able to catch 15 flounder at Rudee until they increased the size. (even though I can't keep any of them) On that note I will stop bitc**** about the size limit until next year. Now if the flounder I threw back this year aren't any bigger next year I'll be back in full force bitc**** and complaining.


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## emanuel (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: SURE*



1mocast said:


> * Now who doing more to hurt the stripper population? My one fish or their 1000? *


I don't think you can have too many strippers. I practice strict catch-and-release with that species.


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## 1mocast (Jul 11, 2003)

*o' boy*

What an awful typo. I think I need to work on my typing skills.

sorry folks -- That species is strictly prohibited in any size


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## TheBigEasy (Aug 21, 2003)

The Man was out on the night of the 4th of July. I saw him give out two tickets. One for two guys with undersized flounder in their cooler. There excuse was big enough to fit on a slice of bread big enoug to keep. The other was a guy with a tatug. I hope I spelled that correctly. I guess the season hadn't quite started for them.


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## DavB (Apr 15, 2000)

*The Human Species...*

has a bad track record. What OTHER species regularly hunts other species to extinction!?

Was it recs or comms that wiped out the Dodo birds and Passenger Pigeons...?

Keep the regs, keep the man to enforce them. We can't control ourselves as a species, its proven.


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## Zigh (May 2, 2002)

*Size matters..........*

.......but seriously, if you consider how large Flounder can get, then 17 1/2" doesn't seem that big to me. I mean, at least these fish have had a chance to breed and perpetuate the species. If we as rec.'s start removing a bunch of fish that haven't ever bred, the fishery will be completely wiped out. I hate that comm.'s keep these smaller fish and things, but the reality is a net caught fish is a DEAD fish, whether large or small. So, if you're going to allow any commercial fishing for Flounder, we have to be accepting of the idea that they have different size restrictions to achieve less overall waste. We have the ability to put fish we catch back alive. They don't..............


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## jay b (Dec 1, 2002)

Ditto what Zigh said. I posted a similar response to surfisher's thread asking for opinions on the same subjet. Rules are rules - plain and simple. Have I pushed or broken them before?? He!! yeh, but when caught I usually accepted the consequences. Fact is if you're to STUPID to follow a known rule, you need to be caught!! Just my $0.02.


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