# Sea turtle and gill net war heats up in NC



## jeffreyweeks (Feb 5, 2009)

The latest news on the gill net lawsuit as well as interviews I did this morning (including Dr. Daniels) and what we know about Rep. Walter Jones' sea turtle bill: 

Sea turtle and gill net war heats up in NC


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## Carolina Rebel (Aug 25, 2005)

Controlling those nets would do way more for turtle population recovery than all the beach protection in the world.


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## huckfinn38 (Jun 13, 2006)

*Law suits...*

Guys,
Environmental agencies with deep pockets are going to continue to rob you of your rights with law suits. Do I like gill nets no. Does by catch piss me off yes. Do I think SOME commerical fishmerman are dogs, yes. However I will not support an environmental agency suing to protect something. We as tax payers end up paying this bill and the government agencies that are getting sued just roll over and play dead.

If these groups continue to be able to sue the government over enviromental issues, we will see an end to hunting and fishing.


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## twitch (Jan 29, 2008)

Many of the same groups responsible for the closing of Hatteras beaches are behind this. No surprise there. :--| Look at that, they even have the same judge.....Judge Boyle. What are the odds of that?

What are the odds of the eco groups using the power of the endangered species act to* just *get commercial gear out of coastal waters? 

They are going to jump at the chance to use this same piece of environmental legislation against recreational fishing, beach driving, and perhaps even boating in coastal waters in NC.

Anybody have a list of the recreational fishing groups that are standing with the Beasley turtle center over this issue? It might be a noble cause, but the players themselves are less than trustworthy.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

twitch said:


> Many of the same groups responsible for the closing of Hatteras beaches are behind this. No surprise there. :--| Look at that, they even have the same judge.....Judge Boyle. What are the odds of that?
> 
> What are the odds of the eco groups using the power of the endangered species act to* just *get commercial gear out of coastal waters?
> 
> ...


 You hit the nail on the head with that post.. First step in getting us *recreational fishermen* from OI to Ocracoke was to get our "tidal waters" labeled as Federal.... Have seen this for some time being taken in small but deliberate steps.. First access to beaches,then access to areas with boats and yaks... They're jumping on coms first,because it is seen as an important step to saving turtles,next on to the recs.. Watch out sightcasting will be next,no jigs thrown near turtles.. Of course let's not forget "no fish zones"... Recs are in deep **** and don't even know it yet...


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## pier_man0909 (Feb 28, 2006)

twitch said:


> Anybody have a list of the recreational fishing groups that are standing with the Beasley turtle center over this issue? It might be a noble cause, but the players themselves are less than trustworthy.


CFRG is a major supporter of this. I believe they have donated to support this. Id imagine CCA is in the mix as well.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Just because some regulations are stupid doesn't mean all regulations are. It'd be like saying there should be no speed limits anywhere because the cop in your neighborhood is a jerk.

It's not just the turtles--I don't know how many gillnets I've seen bobbing in the surf full of drum and birds and trout and a million other things. They're like vacuum cleaners that sweep up everything in front of them. I'm not anti-commercial, but IMO they don't have a leg to stand on here.


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## twitch (Jan 29, 2008)

I'm not saying all regulations are "stupid" at all. I was simply pointing out the fact that the major players behind this lawsuit are all too familiar faces( Hatteras Consent Decree), and their actions should raise suspicion. I don't think most people realize the power of the ESA. With this piece of environmental legislation the *animal always comes first*, and any threats to said animal are simply eliminated. It doesn't matter if it is nets, walking on the beach, recreational fishing , or boating. 

The big question is who decides what activities are a threat under the ESA? 
If you look at the Hatteras Consent Decree, it will give you a pretty good idea who is going to decide. They don't want humans in the equation at all, ZERO interaction with wildlife, ZERO human activities on wildlife habitat.

I don't know about you, but I will take a long hard look at any group with that much power(ESA) that has views that are in contrast to my own. I think the recreational fishing groups that are allied with the Eco's over this deserve even closer scrutiny.


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## pier_man0909 (Feb 28, 2006)

the only reason they dont have much of a leg to stand on is because of how many anti-gill netters there are. gill nets arent always destructive. if they want to stop destructive then the boats are probably next. here are a few stats from the beasly turtle hospital since 2007, the same facility filing the suit.

number of fractured shells most likely by boat prop...24
cold stun...41
hooked or tangled in fishing line...8
caught in a net...7

found this interesting. a couple of the turtles caught in nets already had fractured shells.

and I found this interesting. one of the turtles that was caught in a gill net was caught in a net set by UNCW doing research to locate diamondback terrapins, a species listed as "special concern"


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## twitch (Jan 29, 2008)

Yep, if people can't see the handwriting on the wall with the power of the ESA behind those statistics..... I can see it now, mile after mile of turtle zones @ idle speed only. Just like the ones on the West coast of Florida for manatees:--|


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

sand flea said:


> Just because some regulations are stupid doesn't mean all regulations are. It'd be like saying there should be no speed limits anywhere because the cop in your neighborhood is a jerk.
> 
> It's not just the turtles--I don't know how many gillnets I've seen bobbing in the surf full of drum and birds and trout and a million other things. They're like vacuum cleaners that sweep up everything in front of them. I'm not anti-commercial, but IMO they don't have a leg to stand on here.


 Yes,no doubt steps need to be taken to save turtles.. They have to be taken to save all endangered species,including birds and other animals as well.. BUT do it with science,and practical aplication,not the "precluded science" and propaganda that groups like DOW,PETA,AUDOBON,SELC and others use.. And this is jmo,it's all aimed at us in the long run.. With their lawyers making $ from government lawsuits and the government backing down in every case,and our past time (for some) and livelihood for others is just colateral damage in the mix...


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## HStew (Jan 8, 2009)

If you want to locate terrapins don't look for them in the ocean and don't use a net!! That would be a good way to hurt or kill them. Use a crab pot and set it so it is half way out of the water at high tide , so they won't drown. Of course you would set in the marsh on the sound side.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

I'm with you, Kenny. There better be solid science behind any decisions that are made.

These three paragraphs really offer the best solution:

_“It’s a waste issue,” Wirt said. “I’ve seen 14 gill nets set in an area a half mile wide before. The large mesh gill nets do a lot of damage to the red drum, the birds, turtles, anything that gets caught up in them.”

But Wirt says gill net fishing in his area is far less destructive since a regional 24-hour mandatory net attendance rule was put in place a few years ago. 

“Making the commercial fishermen attend the gill nets really put an end to a lot of the bycatch and interaction problems where I fish,” Wirt said. “That went away. But I know that’s not the law in most of the state. I’m not really in favor of banning all the gill nets if they’d just have to attend them all the time.”_

Attendance rules for netters is a great solution. But unfortunately, this'll probably end up like every other debate with the extremists on each side insisting it's their way or the highway.


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## chris storrs (Aug 25, 2005)

pier_man0909 said:


> and I found this interesting. one of the turtles that was caught in a gill net was caught in a net set by UNCW doing research to locate diamondback terrapins, a species listed as "special concern"



heck one of the spots i fish you cant keep the danged terrapins off your baits...tons of em..them and otters pop up everywhere all the time, turtles in day, otters at night...and i just fish 30 yds worth of riverfront in what is miles and miles and miles of habitat for em...in what is a pretty dirty river area and industrial section
not sure if theyre "diamond back" but they got whitish skin with black speckles..


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

sand flea said:


> I'm with you, Kenny. There better be solid science behind any decisions that are made.
> 
> These three paragraphs really offer the best solution:
> 
> ...




For many years,never understood why that hasn't been law.. Have said for yrs they should be over their nets or at least close by,like 200yds.. I know many will set all night,just leaving unattended till the next morning. Have never set a flounder net,and never com fished other than with a castnet,so I really have no clue as to why this can't be implimented,as with dropnetters on the ocean side have a certian distance they have to be from their nets.. It makes sense,but as said,I'm ignorant on the reasons why it's not a rule......

PS If you are familiar with Boyle,you also know science is not always required............


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*The Sad Thing about the whole situtation*

is recovery leads to more interaction.. The more Turtles the more encounters. So can someone explain to me what we have to gain???
Its a loose loose thing if ya ask me.. Same with the beach more birds=less beach...So is recovery good??? Depends if you are a conservationist or enviromentalist. Sux if you are a Fisherman...JAM


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## twitch (Jan 29, 2008)

I think recovery can be a good thing, but being penalized as a user group for aiding with the recovery under the term "best available science" seems to be the norm in this day and age.


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## Loner (Sep 9, 2009)

twitch said:


> I think recovery can be a good thing, but being penalized as a user group for aiding with the recovery under the term "best available science" seems to be the norm in this day and age.


The BEST SCIENCE AVAILABLE...in ALL THESE CASES simply means the terroritst group with THE BEST FINANCES AVAILABLE to simply PLOW OVER the RECESSION CURSED average fisherman and beach goer....

MONEY tells us what is RIGHT AND WRONG..
MONEY tells us what the BEST SCIENCE AVAILABE is..
MONEY tells us WHO IS IN CHARGE....in these matters....DON'T IT!

WHAT have THE TERRORIST got that WE Ain't got???.....MONEY!!!


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Loner said:


> The BEST SCIENCE AVAILABLE...in ALL THESE CASES simply means the terroritst group with THE BEST FINANCES AVAILABLE to simply PLOW OVER the RECESSION CURSED average fisherman and beach goer....
> 
> MONEY tells us what is RIGHT AND WRONG..
> MONEY tells us what the BEST SCIENCE AVAILABE is..
> ...


 And access to propaganda...


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