# Back Bay Petition



## GotchaMack (Jun 16, 2004)

Hey SandFlea and everyone else who loves Back Bay. I have had the kraps of the SUV yuppies screwing up that beautiful beach for a long time now myself. Just an idea, why don't we write up an official and well-worded petition and have every member of this website sign it, even pass it on to their friends. I know logistically that could be a nightmare, but maybe we could write a master petition and have everyone download it, print it off and put their own signature on it and send it, that way we can bombard them! I'm just thinking out loud here but I think we need to harness the power of the many voices in this website and fire a serious round at these SOBs


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## johnnyleo11 (Dec 17, 2003)

http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13001


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## G W (Dec 1, 2003)

I understand that you are upset about people driving on the beach in the back bay area. But let's be honest with ourselves. If any one of us could get our hands on one of those permits to drive on the beach down there, we'd be loving life right about now because there are so many good fishing holes down that way. Don't take your anger out on the people that get to drive on that beach. Take it out on the people that took away the ability for any of us to be able to drive on that beach.


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

yes i would love it... however, i would not drive under peoples lines, i would not drive in excess of 25-30mph, and i would damn sure not flick people off or pass them within inches or make them have to run and get their cooler out of the way....


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## GotchaMack (Jun 16, 2004)

I for one am happy that such a place as Back Bay still exists. I love the fact that there is such a beautiful and vast piece of pristine beach left on the Atlantic Coast especially in VA. Nobody says you can't get there early and make a nice 2 or 3 mile day hike into those great fishing holes that I know exist from the beginning of the park to Corolla Light, we aren't limited to the end of the boardwalk afterall. But the fact that a bunch of unappreciative lunatics drive over and desacrate a national and environmental treasure because they have enough money to bribe their way into a permit makes me absolutely sick! After all most of these people have no respect for Back Bay or what it means to so many and probably spend their drives up and down the beach spouting off about what a shame it is that such a vast piece of oceanfront property has not had every drop of money squeezed out of it yet To answer your assumption sir, I would gladly turn down the right to drive on that beach and I'm sure most all of us would if it meant total seclusion for such a wonderful place. The human parasite has devoured 98% of these areas and is chomping at the bit to ruin this one. No I don't want to track and gas up what is afterall one of the last strongholds Mother Nature has on this continent. I will personally take on this fight and give every politician and nature conservancy group such an earful they'll want me hung, and I would encourage any of you gentlemen who feel the same way about this priceless piece of land to take similar actions if you have not already done so. Lets make the S%$# hit the fan on this one until people start listening and acting.


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## The Bucket (Mar 4, 2001)

G-Mack,

Understand your point of view as I have held the same. However, my position at this point on this issue is that the FWS is either ulitmately going to one day close to all or more likely take the path of least resistance an continue w/current bad practice so I'm now for OPENING BACK BAY BEACH FOR ALL !

So I'm for starting a petition to allow free & open access to all that want to ORV the Back Bay beach  Yep you heard that right and from me no less, but not from me first eh Dawg  

NWS is after to close Hatteras next which very easily could end up being like Back Bay w/those grandfathered or privileged folks who are only allowed ORV access ... so GO OBPA !!!

I'm over it so if it is all or none ... 

I rather have ALL,

`bucket


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

My view is either or. In other words either all have access or none do. That way it is fair and equitable.
The really sad part about my last experience with a priveledged(sp) driver was she is the wife of a employee of False Cape State park. My feeling of her behavior(she drove through the fishing lines) is she and her husband(the employee of the state) should loose their priveledge(sp)to drive on the beach. This would include him either loosing his job or being transfered somewhere else.


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## Dyhard (Oct 24, 2002)

I've got some news for everyone who likes to fish this area. The drivers going through this area are encouraged to drive near the water, below the tide line. If you've got your lines stretched across this area, then it's between you and the driver to play 'chicken'. I would think that a resourseful person could use heavy line on a rig (a trap) that when driven through would insure that the weight would eventually be pulled across their vehicle. Another side is that it is close to impossible to see some lines when driving.
Don't wish closure on some one else unless you are willing to submit to it your self.
The closure of this area still temps me to go postal!!


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## Bass Buster (Jun 19, 2003)

*Right of passage to back Bay*

I agree with the fact that some people who have access to the Back Bay via there own vehicle are out of control, that’s something the local authorities in control of the area need to address.

I fish the area all the time and I have had my intimidating close calls with these drivers as well. What works for me is managing your equipment and keeping alert because you know somebody’s going to be flying down the beach sooner or later. 

On the other hand I kind of like the fact that not everybody is willing to make the hike out there to explore the more productive holes. That guarantees more quality fish for the ones who do. It may sound harsh to some of you guys and gals but that’s the reality of life. Exercise is good for the heart and the added bonus of it all is the pristine condition of an unspoiled trashed coastline. 

I don’t like the driving situation but I deal with it and make the best of a bad situation. By the way not all of the locals that access the beach with there vehicles are bad it’s just a certain minority of them. Maybe we should start submitting the plate numbers of the bad ones to the authorities. 


Who Knew It!


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## Green Cart (May 14, 2002)

*Make A Sign*

Perhaps you can make a sign saying "Watch Out For Lines", and when the ignorant driver comes down the beach, you can step out and hold up the sign.  Then you and the driver can play chicken.  I dunno because I saw elsewhere on the internet that the fisherman got the driver to slow down, but when the fisherman stepped aside, the driver kept on going.


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## Bass Buster (Jun 19, 2003)

It's a dicey situation whenever you’re in the path of a motor vehicle and I’m not holding up anything because that’s not what I’m out there to do. All I’m saying is stay alert and watch your equipment and the tide line if you want to enjoy your outing. Let’s face it nothings going to change the situation because it’s been brought up many times before to no avail.


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## HighCap56 (Oct 21, 2003)

*Idea*

All of us that fish BB should get 2 spare spikes and either mount a caution sign, directional arrow, or something else to "direct" the cars around the lines.

Most should be like Pavlov's dog and just obey the sign.

Plant one at either end where you are fishing and you might not have a problem.

For the record, I support the "All or None" side.


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## FL FISHERMAN (Sep 30, 2002)

I am for whatever we can get the majority united on. I agree it is not all the drivers with permits but the minority that are a-holes. But I do not feel since they should drive(or because they are too lazy) below high tide line that gives them the right to run through our lines. Maybe some of us should give them lessons on how to drive on a beach. And I sure as hell can't stand that stupid line they've been giving " This is the only way to my house " Yeah maybe like 20 years ago but now there is a paved road. The thing that bothers me is it is like we have no rights or say there. It is not like we are doing anything illegal by fishing there. We pay at the gate like everyone else.


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## Bass Buster (Jun 19, 2003)

You got no argument out of me becuase I agree with you 100%. The thing is we can get worked up as much as we want over this but nothing will ever be resolved. Now you can take that to bank if you want. Im open to all suggestions as long as it doesn't screw it up for for the fishermen who do make the hike out there.


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## FL FISHERMAN (Sep 30, 2002)

Yeah not mad at you BB, just spent a few times out there with Flea and NS4D last year and got treated real crappy by the pass holders that is all. I agree don't want to have the fishing banned there. Closing the beach down to driving would be fine too, although it is a lot better when you can drive  Just look at AI up here in MD!


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## Bass Buster (Jun 19, 2003)

Exactly what I’m referring to and it's crazy to make everybody suffer because of a few fools. I’m a transplant from Cape Cod MA and I have seen the access rights of fishermen taken away in the courts. Don't want to see it happen in BB because we have a turf war due to ignorant drivers. It's a touchy situation that may turn explosive if somebody decides to go off and cause some damage to a passing vehicle. I say deal with it the best you can and maybe things will get better. If more anglers made the trip out there in force it would surly bring about a change in driving habits. Somehow I doubt if that will happen because of the long hike to the fishing area. Oh well that’s the way it is I recon.


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## FL FISHERMAN (Sep 30, 2002)

Well I think the petiton push is a good way to go but I also think we need more ammo. Everyone should bring their camera and if drivers start acting up catch em on camera. Enough of that and clear shots of license plates would help our push. You would be surprised how they behave when you have a camera in your hand, just ask Flea   Now that means we all (fisherpeople) have be on our p's and q's too. Great area to fish but it doesn't help when a few people act like they own the whole beach and you have no right to fish on it! Kind of defeats the reason of even going out there! You know what I mean.


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## GotchaMack (Jun 16, 2004)

I think we are underestimating one angle to this argument. We need to harp on the environmental impact that these vehicles have and combine that with the fact that these people trade these permits to their buddies like baseball cards and I know they use the beach well after midnight from experience watching them from Little Island. I really don't think its a hopeless dream to have just the driving permits revoked and all else remain as is. What I'm saying is if these morons get the boot I really don't think they are gonna shut us all out, after all they figure 99% don't use more than the first mile of the beach, which is most likely true. All we need to due is stir up the turtle crusaders in the NWS while we shed light on the abuse of the permits that is clearly rampant among these people and I think if we really keep at it, we'll see the end of motorized morons at BB.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

GotchaMack said:


> All we need to due is stir up the turtle crusaders in the NWS while we shed light on the abuse of the permits that is clearly rampant among these people and I think if we really keep at it, we'll see the end of motorized morons at BB.


GMack, be careful what you ask for. You start to get the enviros involved and you can kiss that area goodbye, walking or driving. Mark my words.


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

yeah very careful with dem peta folks man... its gonna hurt us more man.


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## GotchaMack (Jun 16, 2004)

I'm talking about the NWS not the crackheads at PETA and other extremist tree hugers, trust me any action I take will be on behalf of all of us and will do nothing but better the situation for all fisherman, hikers, birdwatchers, etc... After all we're only talking about 30 people who are ruining it for everyone else, if they let them stay then oh well I tried, but if they go they will be the only ones, trust me on this one.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

I am with the Bucket on this one... Free and Open access for all.... Join the OBPA today... JAM


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## reelrebel18 (Oct 13, 2004)

somebody needs to call OBPA on this one they should be able to help seeing as thjat is virgbinias OBX


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

RR18, OBPA has their hands full trying to keep access open down there. There is no access to the majority up here and prolly never will be.  My concern with making a big stink is it could turn around and bite us in the tail.

BTW, the only time I ever had a issue with a beach driver was when I(we) were out there at a time when I(we) shouldn't have been. Other than that time common courtesy has seemed to be returned to me likewise.


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

i thought there was a problem with turtle nests getting run over in the past...how about the stranding team getting a call...or put up a sign that says "caution, drift wood"...i agree that most are ok ie:slow down etc....but some of these drivers could kill someone...and as a thought...what is the speed limit on the beach...40


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

We went through some of this last year.

Isn't it a federal law that you have to get changed. If so you have to go to your local Congressman/woman or Senator and talk to them. Do a search on old posts. I am pretty sure that I posted the reference laws a while back. 

My suggestion is that somebody put on a suit and pay a visit to the VB represenitives, before you go to far. Speak of an interest, get their feelings on the matter then seek a stack of signatures. Maybe get a electronic list of names and addresses of registered voters that support the matter before you talk to them. Just make sure that you have your ducks in a row before you go in. Answer these questions.

Why is it closed to the general public?

Are the reasons still valid?

How can opening it be structured so as to not go counter to said reasons?

The first two may take a letter or 50 to NFWS (or who ever is in charge) to get an answer. Post the first and we can debate the answers to the second and third. Maybe it can be opened during certain months or during certain hours.

The same goes for the speed limits, etc.

Tom

PS Me I would get two sand spikes set one a little above my rod and the other at the tide line and string yellow danger tape between the two.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Let's put a few myths to rest.

1. Fighting this fight will NOT cause us to lose access. It is a federal park, and there is not a single federal park in the U.S. that denies basic recreational access, which includes hiking, birding, and fishing. We don't have anything to fear here. The jerks do.

2. Environmentalists could really be our friends here. We need to enlist them in this fight, and I plan to ask several groups for their help this year. The major fishing lobbies offered no help at all. The CCA completely ignored repeated requests, and the RFA asked for information but took it no further.

3. The beach will not be opened to any of our vehicles. Ever. Give it up. Rangers made that clear. The best we can hope for is a pristine beach open to those willing to hike in.

Here's a re-post from last year. This is how we will win.
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For those of you unfamiliar with the situation, there are roughly 14 North Carolina residents who have permits granted to drive through the refuge until midnight. This was granted by Congress in the late 70's because there were no asphalt roads anywhere near the Corolla beaches and it was difficult for the residents to get up to Virginia.

It is a Federal Park, meaning that neither North Carolina nor Virginia has any say over how it's run. It's up to the rangers and Congress.

The residents' obnoxious behavior is pretty well documented. Several people have had them drive through their lines, attempting to drag rods into the water.

Many of the people there are either trading passes or cheating their way in. I have photos of one Hummer with Florida plates, and this weekend I took a shot of a vehicle with Virginia plates (the community is in North Carolina).










This may look like a simple user dispute, but it's not. In a park that is home to nesting populations of some of the rarest animals in the U.S. -- including multiple species of sea turtles and birds -- a handful of wealthy landowners from North Carolina is allowed to run roughshod over everyone else. 

Here's the legislation that originally granted access. 

And here's the killer clause:

(4) Only one permit will be issued per family. *All permits issued will be terminated in the event that alternate access becomes available 
during the permit period.*

There's asphalt for those northern OBX beaches now. Case closed.

Please, if you do nothing else today, write Virginia's two senators and tell them that it's time for this quarter-century old program to end. Open the refuge to all our vehicles or shut it down altogether. You could drop a note to your member of the House of Representatives as well.

And if you carry a digicam, photograph every single vehicle you see on the beach, regardless of whether they're misbehaving. We need license numbers, because quite a few of them aren't supposed to be there and are sharing passes.

Would anglers in other states tolerate everyone but a few rich folks being banned from Pea Island or The Point in Hatteras?


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

And one more thing. It's time to file a Freedom of Information Act request to get the license plates and names of those people who do have legitimate access so we can photograph those who are illegally driving the beaches.

Time to turn the pressure up.


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

i agree mr.flea...get the stranding team, etc...but, i know of federal forests closed to hunting when private property owners objected to hunters...and some that were made shotgun only when the hunters complained...maybe we can get something...jmo


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Thats cool, screw the ones that can because we cant....


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## GotchaMack (Jun 16, 2004)

Thanks for rallying some support here Flea, I was beginning to feel like I was threatening to close BB myself with the progress of this thread so far. I plan to start my fight at the top and work my way down Feds-State-NWS-Interest Groups-Local Gov't etc..., I will keep you informed of my progress or lack thereof and would love to hear a status report about your battles from time to time, might give one of us or both of us an edge we need if we keep updating each other as well as everyone about our progress. 
PS Flea- Hope to meet you at SPSP here in a few weeks if your gonna be there for the stripers cause I've wanted to become a supporter for sometime now but there is some PayPal issues between the others in my house, so hopefully I can just cut you a check down there.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Cdog said:


> Thats cool, screw the ones that can because we cant....


Can what? Flip people off and scream obscenities out their windows? Buy their way into a park when the rest of us have to stay on foot?

Clay, I'd like vehicle access as much as you. But you have to pick your battles. If this falls into squabbling, we'll lose.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

sand flea said:


> Can what? Flip people off and scream obscenities out their windows? Buy their way into a park when the rest of us have to stay on foot?
> 
> Clay, I'd like vehicle access as much as you. But you have to pick your battles. If this falls into squabbling, we'll lose.


I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one...


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## johnnyleo11 (Dec 17, 2003)

The only people I've run across while fishing at BB have been the Rangers doing patrols on the beach. I have yet to experience my lines getting clipped and having my rods pulled in to the water. I'm pretty sure not all of the people using the low tide line as a route to Virginia are fools that flick anglers off and try to pick off coolers. Yes, it sucks dragging your gear out there and I'd really hate to drag two more pieces of PVC with some caution tape out there, but perhaps that is what's needed to keep things at a reasonable level. If someone really wants to run over your gear, let the park rangers know about it so they can pass the word along to the residents that are using the road. In those small communities, everyone knows everyone's business and word will get out around town about who's being an ass. Sometimes it's impossible to find a ranger there, so just leave a note on the Information Center door.

I think it would be nice to ride out on the sand w/ my 4x, but it would just be one more guy out there with his brother tearing up the beach. And the beach would tear the crap out of my vehicle.

That PVC pipe and caution tape is a good idea. Maybe some reflectors instead, like the ones old ladies put up by their mailboxes, would work good too at early morning and evening hours. But then again, isn't the park closed from dusk to dawn? I hardly believe someone driving their $55,000 H2 SUV on the beach wants to clip some fiberglass and mono on purpose. If they do, well it would stink driving all the way back down to the gate with four blown tires.

But that's the way it is. Privilged few are the priviliged few for a reason. C`est la vie


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## HighCap56 (Oct 21, 2003)

*Perhaps instead of Caution tape*

We could mount Claymores with trip wires.....

Remember what side to face away from you.  

I had a couple of the "priviledged" make a run a little close to me twice last year. 

I also agree that BB, a Federal Refuge cannot deny foot access should something like this get passed.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Cdog said:


> I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one...


Fair enough. But can we at least agree that the current solution--only allowing access to the rich and well connected while shutting everyone else out--is the wrong one?


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## FL FISHERMAN (Sep 30, 2002)

Well I am behind you Flea and Gotchamack! I am in Germany right now so can't do much in person but anything via internet and you got it. I don't think what they have right now is fair at all!!


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

sand flea said:


> Fair enough. But can we at least agree that the current solution--only allowing access to the rich and well connected while shutting everyone else out--is the wrong one?


I'll agree that is sucks that I can't drive there. As far as going out after someone to take away there ability to drive,,,no I can't do that.


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## jjaachapa (Aug 7, 2004)

I got an idea ! I'll take one for the team and get ran over. Maybe then they might listen to you guys. 
I cant really coment on the issue because I haven't made it out there. Im sure it sucks taking all the gear out there. I'll give it a try this year and if someone runs my gear over or acts like an ass then I'll just stay away because the cheap @ss gear I have still costs me money and Im sure thing won't change any time soon.


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## FL FISHERMAN (Sep 30, 2002)

Cdog said:


> I'll agree that is sucks that I can't drive there. As far as going out after someone to take away there ability to drive,,,no I can't do that.


I kind of understand where you are coming from but look at it like this. They aren't using it as ORV access for fishing. They are using it as a quick route home instead of the hardball. Driving on this beach is completely banned except for these few period! Taking away these peoples permits doesn't hurt the fight for the ORV on the OBX or anywhere else. I know all it would take is one ahole driving through your lines and grabbing your line on your 525 and smoking the drag. I bet you would be pissed then.  Take care Clay and get out and fish sometimes, or else it will drive you crazy(trust me I know!)


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

FL FISHERMAN said:


> I kind of understand where you are coming from but look at it like this. They aren't using it as ORV access for fishing. They are using it as a quick route home instead of the hardball. Driving on this beach is completely banned except for these few period! Taking away these peoples permits doesn't hurt the fight for the ORV on the OBX or anywhere else. I know all it would take is one ahole driving through your lines and grabbing your line on your 525 and smoking the drag. I bet you would be pissed then.  Take care Clay and get out and fish sometimes, or else it will drive you crazy(trust me I know!)


Yeah Jason, I understand where you Flea and Gmack are coming from, but to me it would be like me OKing them stoping beach driving anywhere. I guess I'm splitting hairs but either way I can't go along with it.

As soon as I get my utility closet finished I'm going fishing, might even go cat fishing tomorrow night before I do go postal. All work and no fish make th Dog angry.


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## RoryGoggin (Jan 6, 2005)

Um, being a child of the sixties, this occurred to me...it might work better than a petition, and if the proper media were informed....

Well, anyway, uh...what about a "sit in" all across from the water to . . . well, you get the idea...

If they have to run over us...they MIGHT pause...especially if camera crews are there.

It may not be illegal to break fishing lines...but running over people MIGHT give them pause.

Just a thought.


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## Caught Myself (Sep 14, 2004)

NTKG said:


> yes i would love it... however, i would not drive under peoples lines, i would not drive in excess of 25-30mph, and i would damn sure not flick people off or pass them within inches or make them have to run and get their cooler out of the way....


That's exactly the point. These are people who have played the system and some of them have an attitude about it. They probably see it as their exclusive right to be on that beach. When I started fishing there, it was because it is a refuge. I never thought morons could drive on that beach! Webster's defines refuge as a shelter or protection from danger, difficulty, etc. I saw an occasional truck or SUV drive by and I would wave but no one waved back. After one truck went by me going 30-35 about 3 feet from me. I realized something's wrong with these damn people. Let's just say that when I go there now, I'm prepared. If it were up to me, it would stay a wildlife refuge and nobody except the rangers would drive on that beach.


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## The Bucket (Mar 4, 2001)

What shall it be 1 (no ORV access for anyone), 2 (live w/existing condition and require real enforcement), or 3 (ORV access for all) ??? 

For the 2005 fishing year I'm expecting same ol'same ol'  Such that I plan to have a camera, 8oz, & proper attitude when needed. 

Here is brief part of the old post hole http://pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13001
started last year:

Hey Bob (HighCap56),

I have a few problems with what he wrote you as that is not the complete case (which includes my personal conversation w/him). Regardless of that, his email/letter essentially claims that all the vehicle traveling the Refuge including what you are seeing on the beach are legal (that's false whether they have a VA license plate or not) as the refuge staff is affraid to enforce the laws governing the "special access provision" especially given who their dealing with and the stated US FWS position that they will ultimately get the Refuge back in some 20-30 yrs when they outlive the original permit holders - so don't rock the beach or check the permits in the mean time. 

I don't buy into any of that it's only special folk access $rap. However, I do believe there may actually be a handful of folks who still depend "somewhat" on the access through the Refuge for real acceptable (and grandfathered) reasons, but they at this point they are the exception to the special access provision rule. 

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/.../50cfr26.34.htm

And let's not forget the post-rule paved hard top to these folks from the south side/NC 12. The Back Bay special access provision did not say that the alternate access had to be convenient -just there and that's it ! 

Bigger issue to me is these special access provision folks have not policed themselves well enough to a point that they have abused there permitted privilege, the Refuge, and all of us. 

My efforts and intent on this issue are to either:

1) repeal the legislation to end all special access,

2) have the exisiting law enforced properly, or

3) if 1 & 2 fail, pass new legislation so we can all drive on the Refuge beach !

Don't tread on me,

`bucket

"I'm diggin' up bones, I'm diggin' up bones, exhuming things that are better left alone ..."


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

Bucket I like your knowledge and I can live with any of your results. Heck I could deal with purcahse permits as long as everyone has equal access(equal is the key). Ie 100 permits we have a luck of the draw.


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## johnnyleo11 (Dec 17, 2003)

Heck, let's pave the damned thing and throw up condos.

I'd rather keep it as it is and wait for the access holders to pass away. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure nobody is really keeping track of who's still breathing and who's getting the passes and keys to the locks of the gates. Is NC or VA in charge of giving out the keys? Of is is Fed? I guess someone could post a little sign next to the access gates at BB saying, "Watch out for Fisherman!" I don't think the rangers would have much of a problem if you suggested putting up such a sign.

jjachapa,

I don't think it would be a grand idea of getting hit by a truck on that stretch of beach out there. I'm not sure how long it would take for the EMTs to get out to you to help you out. Perhaps there is a "For Dummies" book for Self Administered open body cavity wound dressing.

And another thing. For one week in October, BB allows hunting, right? Are the permit holders allowed to drive on the beach during this week? There is a safety issue with that, yes?


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## HighCap56 (Oct 21, 2003)

johnnyleo11 said:


> And another thing. For one week in October, BB allows hunting, right? Are the permit holders allowed to drive on the beach during this week? There is a safety issue with that, yes?


From what I remember, the whole area is shut down then except for the hunters.


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## LyNn-PiEr-FiShEr (Feb 28, 2005)

yea gotcha that sounds awsome i am up for it.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

I wish we could get access, but I approached two beach rights organizations (including OBPA) and they both shut the idea down. Furthermore the rangers have said it will never, ever happen.

What kills me is that we can't fish that beach after dark (unlike every other federal beach in the country). The wife of the ranger at False Cape told me why: "Because you would be in the way of the residents driving the beach until midnight." I kid you not.


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## GotchaMack (Jun 16, 2004)

Well now thats the absolute last straw! I get the kraps of not being able to fish that beach at night because I'm forced to fish the flat dredged out Sandbridge Beach as soon as the sun goes down, and its been dead at night out there the last two years in the summer. Imagine whats running those sloughs in BB at night, and we can't fish there or be there just because of the permit holders, thats it! I'm gonna freak on everyone involved with this and they are gonna listen and like it, if not I might just start building car bombs!


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## johnnyleo11 (Dec 17, 2003)

Call me crazy, but being that a bunch of members on this board have been purchasing kayaks, I imagine you could paddle south from Sandbridge and fish in the sloughs and cuts in the beach off of BB. Just a thought.


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## Caught Myself (Sep 14, 2004)

You can paddle anywhere you want to


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Well, this is all just talk until we get members of Congress or a bigger organization interested. Last year when I was trying to get the RFA involved I asked people to send me letters to the RFA detailing your complaints to show that we actually had angler support behind the issue. I even offered to print and mail the letters myself.

I did not receive a single one.

We can't do this ourselves. We need the weight of a bigger organization to get behind it.


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## GotchaMack (Jun 16, 2004)

I think your right Flea its going to come down to luck, not effort. Either we are going to have to strike a chord with someone in the gov't or a powerful enough lobby or this is all just pissin' in the wind. At the same time we can't get lucky if we aren't trying and the more people trying the better our chances. I do think our fight has enough reason and foundation for someone to listen up, but we've gotta exploit some source of power's love of what is being desecrated. Its going to have to be the turtle lovers, a congressman who loves fishing, or someone who just plain hates bribery which in this case I would classify as total corruption of the National Park system and everything it was ever based upon. If we can't get someone to see the significance of these improprities I would be shocked. In case some of you are wondering I am not in this fight because I think its unfair that "they can and we can't," I just plain think its horrible that so valuable a piece of land, a virtual eutopia in this developed world, is being spoiled and tread upon because thirty people wanna save time, its just unacceptable to me.


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