# weightlifting=distance ?



## Pin rigr (Jan 3, 2015)

i haven't seen anything to do with weightlifting to get more distance on here its always just technique. Do any long casters talk about it? if so id like to know what they bench?


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## SloppyTilapia (Oct 4, 2013)

I think a shoulder press or military press would probably be a better standard to measure than a bench press. Chest muscles shouldn't factor too heavily while distance casting.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Pin rigr said:


> i haven't seen anything to do with weightlifting to get more distance on here its always just technique. Do any long casters talk about it? if so id like to know what they bench?


I work out at the gym four days a week and do specific exercises related to casting, with pulley type machines.

At age 62 I cannot bench what I used to, but I know for a fact, in my case working out is a big help especially for elbows and shoulders and wrists that are under load and strain on a cast.

Bench press is not where the power comes from. power is derived feet and legs transferring energy to your arms and hands at least for me.

Most of the really great casters I know are 6'2 or more, athletic and strong, however they also have great form.

Best to go thru life as strong as possible...especially if you are like me and like to talk trash at times

If I had to choose between great strength or great form and timing I will take the later....


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## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

I would argue you are not going to find a strong guy who can cast far without good form. In fact I have been fishing the point or close to it on many an occasion and there is a smaller framed older guy out there who will out cast me all day, any day, even if he is casting into the wind and I am throwing with the wind. I bet he is not 180# and can throw his bait a country mile! Now I am not a small guy and work out regularly (since you were asking 6'0", 265#, bench 315, squat 425) Now I can throw it a good bit but when I concentrate and practice casting I can get much more from form than from the gym.

Now as for exercises I would work on for casting: Skull Crushers and Tri Extensions for Tri's, Bicep Hammer curls and Bar bell curls for biceps (that covers the punch and pull) definitely get some oblique work in with Cable Obs Twist, Shoulder work (pullups, Dumb Bell Military Press, DB Side Raise), then leg work (squats, deadlifts, thrusters). That plus core work since a lot of your power is going to come from the twist of your core. I am not sure how much this all would help but if I was into competitive casting I would work more on skill, and throw in some gym work.


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## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

Garboman said:


> Best to go thru life as strong as possible...especially if you are like me and like to talk trash at times


I know the feeling. Its a good thing my mouth cannot write checks my but cannot cash.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

I am too proud to let any smaller older guy outcast me when drum fishing. If it were to happen, and it has not happened yet but I would likely be forced into a drinking binge.

If a smaller older guy out catches and out casts me, I am definitely going into a drinking binge

Come to think of it, I have gone on a drinking binge when a younger, taller and better caster out-caught me....perhaps there is a trend here.......


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## dsurf (Aug 5, 2003)

Hip power with proper timing on the turn is critical......perhaps more important than arm/leg strength per se.....the exceptional distance folks, both small and large, have this down to a near science. Of course they all have to work together.....we've all seen folks who put lots of arm into the cast.....but if the hips aren't heavily involved, cast will suffer......watch how Tommy Farmer uses his hips.


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## Ronald H Levine (Jul 9, 2016)

No surf casting experience yet (just getting into it with a good start on just buying equipment), but I'll share my insights. I agree and also suspect the hips have a lot to do with a good distance cast. From my martial arts, that's certainty true for developing speed and putting energy into the movement and each muscle movement that can contribute to the total of the casting movements adds velocity the same as with karate or sticks or swords. In bicycling, imagine the contrast between just pushing down on the pedals compared to a racer clipped in and pushing forward, down, back and up or essentially pushing tangent to the crank arm all the way around the circle the pedal travels. All muscles of the major muscle groups contribute, so it's not just pushing down. It might seem simple because the pedals can only move around the bottom bracket in a perfect circle no matter how uneven and inefficiently muscle exertion is applied. I learned to do it very efficiency and have the advantage of outperforming athletes of superior fitness. Technique is key. I'm trying to visualize it for casting. I've read books, watched YouTube videos and soon will practice cast with practice weights so when I eventually get time to travel from Utah on a vacation to a coast, I'll be productive with casts. I plan to use a surf fishing style of casting and retrieving lures rather than bait and wait and I might not even have a rod holder, so it will be athletic fishing as intended. I'm a bicycle racer and will also cover a lot of coast by walking it. Regarding the weightlifting, the bodybuilder types don't come close to being competitive in bicycle racing. I suspect aerobic fitness and karate will give me distance casting advantages. We'll see. I'll post what I learn. Till then, I'd greatly appreciate recommendations on what I should study because I believe the mind is a powerful component of producing a good cast distance.


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## BPReeds (Jan 11, 2013)

well...I'm trying to recover from shoulder tendentious......I though I had the right form...watched all the videos....have a good book from a casting pro....now to even have a shot at the upcoming fishing season I will have to modify my cast to less arm extension.....it sucks......I believe I injured my right shoulder by dropping my right arm down to low, like a side arm pitcher.....be careful with that....one guy pointed out its safer to use a javlin throwing form......


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## pods (Sep 10, 2013)

If you have your technique down, then having more power behind the cast will help you accelerate.
I would work on your whole kinetic chain by doing the big compound movements.
Squats would be my first recommendation, deadlifts second.
They are great for all around fitness as well.


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## Tercules (Sep 13, 2010)

17-year veteran of the personal training field here.

If I made it my objective to IMPROVE MY SURF CASTING PERFORMANCE, I would allocate my time to this endeavor as follows:

1) Joint mobility drills to enhance range of motion in in the hip/spine/shoulder girdle regions. This would be practiced daily. Emphasis would be on movements in the transverse plane (rotational patterns). *Note that this is NOT static stretching/doing a few toe touches then going about your day!

2) Get out on an open field and replicate the surf cast technique using a long dowel rod/pole as an initial "neural activator" (nervous system stimulator). After this I would take my actual surf casting rod and run through the movement pattern without the actual casting of line. I would break the movement down into phases and drill those particular patterns to ingrain the motion and then string them together into a fluid pattern. This would be done at relatively slow speed. Over the course of the next few days I would increase the velocity of my movement while strictly focusing on the entire fluid start-to-finish surf cast (no more breaking down of surf cast into phases at this point).

3) Incorporate the actual casting of weight but not with an emphasis on distance but rather accuracy/timing. Over time I would incorporate sessions/days where distance would be emphasized but the majority of practice would be relegated to accuracy/timing.

4) Where does lifting of weights factor in? Quite frankly it doesn't. 
There are a multitude of benefits (health) provided by resistance training. But if you are looking to launch a cast into the horizon, your time should be spent elsewhere.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Interesting comments on fitness, especially from the professionals in this field.

The truly most important thing is just to practice chucking a heaver, go out in a field or open body of water and cast. I prefer an open body of water as it keeps the line lubricated and less likely to hang up.

After you have cast a heaver 100,000 times and have gotten to the point where you can cast effectively in full dark without have to watch your sinker and thumb the line in full dark without having to watch it go on the spool, it still helps to be stronger than the fella standing beside you.


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## Ronald H Levine (Jul 9, 2016)

Garboman said:


> ... it still helps to be stronger than the fella standing beside you.


Perhaps.

I've raced with the best including the world's best professional bicycle racers ahead of me in a hundred mile bicycle race, but none that far in front were bulked up with muscle.

In karate we used a plastic simulator of a board that breaks, but unlike boards it snaps apart with the same force each time. It's a funny contrast to see a big muscled up guy who can lift huge weights fail and a little girl succeed. Karate teaches us to coordinate muscle groups for movements to add together to achieve velocity and impart maximum energy. In casting, that's exactly what we're doing. We're imparting energy into acceleration of a few ounces of lead. If I were to guess on what else we can do that would help us to be better distance casters, then I would guess karate. But, I'm not a surf caster yet. Just about to get into it.

I'm not arguing against strength. But, for casting, I suspect the best strength for casting comes from casting just as for archery it's best to gain strength by using it for archery practice and bicycle racing by bicycle racing, etcetera. Perhaps over generalized and I'm sure various exercises would be useful and at least healthy.


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## Ronald H Levine (Jul 9, 2016)

Garboman said:


> ... it still helps to be stronger than the fella standing beside you.


Perhaps.

I've raced with the best including the world's best professional bicycle racers ahead of me in a hundred mile bicycle race, but none that far in front were bulked up with muscle.

In karate we used a plastic simulator of a board that breaks, but unlike boards it snaps apart with the same force each time. It's a funny contrast to see a big muscled up guy who can lift huge weights fail and a little girl succeed. Karate teaches us to coordinate muscle groups for movements to add together to achieve velocity and impart maximum energy. In casting, that's exactly what we're doing. We're imparting energy into acceleration of a few ounces of lead. If I were to guess on what else we can do that would help us to be better distance casters, then I would guess karate. But, I'm not a surf caster yet. Just about to get into it.

I'm not arguing against strength. But, for casting, I suspect the best strength for casting comes from casting just as for archery it's best to gain strength by using it for archery practice and bicycle racing by bicycle racing, etcetera. Perhaps over generalized and I'm sure various exercises would be useful and at least healthy.


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Technique trumps power. Power plus technique trumps all.

Tommy


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## Ronald H Levine (Jul 9, 2016)

BPReeds said:


> well...I'm trying to recover from shoulder tendentious......I though I had the right form...watched all the videos....have a good book from a casting pro....now to even have a shot at the upcoming fishing season I will have to modify my cast to less arm extension.....it sucks......I believe I injured my right shoulder by dropping my right arm down to low, like a side arm pitcher.....be careful with that....one guy pointed out its safer to use a javlin throwing form......


That happened to me about four years ago when I bought my first surf casting rods and attempted to practice surf casting without knowledge of how to do it properly and with a rod quite long for starting out.

After a winter of not casting ordinary spinning reels and rods (no casting ice fishing, my shoulder fully recovered, but it took longer than I expected. 

I still like those longer, more massive surf rods and plan to use them, but I bought some shorter surf fishing rods to start and be more forgiving for before I develop good surf casting technique. I'm sure, when casting with good technique, the longer rods will be my favorites, not cause injury and they will have a distance advantage. 

It doesn't help that I'm in Utah and don't have anyone to watch and perhaps coach me to cast well. Is anyone reading this in Utah or occasionally visits?

If so, let's go fishing! I have an abundance of fishing equipment and lures and can introduce you to the various types of fishing here and we can bring along my surf casting rods for practice and for me to be coached.

I'm a very serious ice fisherman and even have the fancy expensive Marcum LX-9. Sometimes ice fishing can include waiting, so I brought my long surf casting rods to practice distance casting. I'll bet that sure looked funny to the guys on the other side of the frozen lake! But, to me, it's no more crazy than having a bag of various golf sticks to hit a ball into a hole in the distance.


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## BritBri (Dec 1, 2015)

Ronald H Levine said:


> No surf casting experience yet (just getting into it with a good start on just buying equipment), but I'll share my insights. I agree and also suspect the hips have a lot to do with a good distance cast. From my martial arts, that's certainty true for developing speed and putting energy into the movement and each muscle movement that can contribute to the total of the casting movements adds velocity the same as with karate or sticks or swords. In bicycling, imagine the contrast between just pushing down on the pedals compared to a racer clipped in and pushing forward, down, back and up or essentially pushing tangent to the crank arm all the way around the circle the pedal travels. All muscles of the major muscle groups contribute, so it's not just pushing down. It might seem simple because the pedals can only move around the bottom bracket in a perfect circle no matter how uneven and inefficiently muscle exertion is applied. I learned to do it very efficiency and have the advantage of outperforming athletes of superior fitness. Technique is key. I'm trying to visualize it for casting. I've read books, watched YouTube videos and soon will practice cast with practice weights so when I eventually get time to travel from Utah on a vacation to a coast, I'll be productive with casts. I plan to use a surf fishing style of casting and retrieving lures rather than bait and wait and I might not even have a rod holder, so it will be athletic fishing as intended. I'm a bicycle racer and will also cover a lot of coast by walking it. Regarding the weightlifting, the bodybuilder types don't come close to being competitive in bicycle racing. I suspect aerobic fitness and karate will give me distance casting advantages. We'll see. I'll post what I learn. Till then, I'd greatly appreciate recommendations on what I should study because I believe the mind is a powerful component of producing a good cast distance.


Read up on it, watch every video you can,try to find someone that can physically show you and then practice ,practice ,practice and practice some more.
There are no shorcuts as im sure you are aware, its all down to dedication and hard work.

A good video to watch if you can find it is "master caster" with Niel McKellow.i know theres a 5 minute short of it on you tube.
Watch some vds on some of the British casters,unarguably some of the best in the world,check out the GP's from Huntingdon in the UK,they all get there along with probably the best ever,big Danny Moeskops.
Theres plenty to go at but distance doesnt always mean bgger and more fish.

Have fun

Bri


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

Tercules said:


> 2) Get out on an open field and replicate the surf cast technique using a long dowel rod/pole as an initial "neural activator" (nervous system stimulator). After this I would take my actual surf casting rod and run through the movement pattern without the actual casting of line. I would break the movement down into phases and drill those particular patterns to ingrain the motion and then string them together into a fluid pattern. This would be done at relatively slow speed. Over the course of the next few days I would increase the velocity of my movement while strictly focusing on the entire fluid start-to-finish surf cast (no more breaking down of surf cast into phases at this point).



Excellent advice, sir. Nick Meyer of Breakaway liked to call that "NickChee" . . . I haven't seen Nickaway in almost 15 years, a real character !

*https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiDso2c0KbPAhXLJh4KHaCkATQQFggjMAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.halfhitch.com%2Fimages%2FDefault%2Fnickmyeroverheadcast.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGgmMXI7oUkXjW4RRW7CI0KlhNyxQ&bvm=bv.133700528,d.dmo*

Tight Lines !


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Back in 1999 I started on a journey that took me to the very top of casting in the USA (46 wins and 15 “majors”) and overseas multiple times to compete internationally. I had 4 top five finishes overseas, including the original Big Danny open (over 100 casters from 15 countries). My best was a 2nd place finish, behind Danny Moeskops in the main event of the Primo Invitational (at the time the biggest casting tournament ever held) in England back 2006. I was proud to represent the USA on casting's biggest stage.

I was not a young guy when I started. My first competition was at the age of 38. I was not the biggest (5'11") or the fastest or the strongest guy on the court. I was a drum fisherman from NC that wanted to see how far I could push it. Took me a couple of years to break 500 feet. I started to learn proper technique from some of the best USA casters and one of the best on the planet, Peter Thain and was soon after on the north side of 700’. As you improve the law of diminishing returns becomes an enemy and you have to work harder and harder for every yard. 

About 6 months before traveling to England in 2006 I decided to get into my best possible casting shape. I was blessed with above average natural strength, but I was now in my mid 40’s and my power was on the decline. With the help of a personal trainer, we developed a strength training program to help my overall power without losing what athletic ability I still had. This is what we worked on; Bench (chest and triceps), Squats (best power exercise period), Deadlift, Military Press and various types of rows but mostly high rows to emulate the left hand pull. Most exercises were based on a 3 set 5 rep power building plan. Always did cardio but not at the expense of power. I continued this or a variation of this for the next 5-6 years until I herniated a disk squatting in 2012 (ouch… bad). 

This program helped me (as a man in his late 40’s-early 50’s) continue to dominate casting in the USA for years. I reset the American record multiple times peaking in spring of 2011 in Texas with a cast of 859.25’, just a couple months shy of my 50th birthday. 

Technique trumps power, power plus technique trumps all.

Tommy


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Oh yea,

With the help of my brother Charlie, I used a stainless round bar about 36" long with rings welded to each end. I'd hook one to the high cable pull then one to the low (opposite side) and work on resistance training going through the actual casting motion. Pretty nifty I thought, and worked.

Tommy


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## Catch This (Nov 19, 2005)

Tommy how about sharing a picture of that bar?


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

To the best of knowledge that bar is still leaning behind the door of the personal trainer at Gold's gym.... 

Never took a picture.

Imagine a steel bar, about 1" in diameter, probably 34-36" long with ring welded to each end to attach the cable pulls.

Tommy


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## Ronald H Levine (Jul 9, 2016)

I'm wondering if greater distance can be achieved for actual surf fishing with aerodynamic advantages? There are some aerodynamically designed weight and bait systems available, but they haven't been scientifically optimized for lowest possible drag.

I will surf fish with lures and distance cast and retrieve. For that, I bought many Yo-Zuri lures that have been engineered for flying in alignment with the air flow for less air drag and greater casting distance.

I suspect competitive distance casting has it's rules to have standardization for competitors to have equal wind resistance and for new records to be fairly compared to old records. Interestingly, this is not the case with bicycling as the world hour records and many others have been surpassed with new records arguably with highly engineered aerodynamic and mechanical advantages including a high altitude Mexico City velodrome where the thinner air is significantly less resistance. It should be noted that many of the oldest records by Eddie Merckx were never surpassed without various advantages that weren't available or used then.


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## pods (Sep 10, 2013)

Hey Tommy, that program sounds exactly like what I'm doing. Stronglifts 5x5. (or starting strength). 
Kicks my behind but those big compound lifts are great at building strength.


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## dsurf (Aug 5, 2003)

Ronald H Levine said:


> I'm wondering if greater distance can be achieved for actual surf fishing with aerodynamic advantages? There are some aerodynamically designed weight and bait systems available, but they haven't been scientifically optimized for lowest possible drag.
> 
> I will surf fish with lures and distance cast and retrieve. For that, I bought many Yo-Zuri lures that have been engineered for flying in alignment with the air flow for less air drag and greater casting distance.
> 
> I suspect competitive distance casting has it's rules to have standardization for competitors to have equal wind resistance and for new records to be fairly compared to old records. Interestingly, this is not the case with bicycling as the world hour records and many others have been surpassed with new records arguably with highly engineered aerodynamic and mechanical advantages including a high altitude Mexico City velodrome where the thinner air is significantly less resistance. It should be noted that many of the oldest records by Eddie Merckx were never surpassed without various advantages that weren't available or used then.


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## Ronald H Levine (Jul 9, 2016)

I'm excited about using my new surf fishing equipment, but not being near a coast, I'll mainly just practice cast to gain proficiency. But, ultimately, my purpose for distance casting will be surf fishing someday. I'm thinking ahead because when I go surf fishing I'll want advantages of lures or bait and weight that cast furthest. The bicycling comparisons were to show my insights that possibilities for increased casting distance might be available or can be made. I suppose a surf fishing supply website that has those things would be good for me to study. If I try to look into surf fishing here in Utah, mostly no one knows what I'm talking about. The other bicycling reference is why I want to make fishing athletic ... walking the shore and covering lots of water with long casts and cast and retrieve of lures is more of a workout than casting bait and weight and waiting. I'm into physical fitness and tend to measure improvements and gain motivation is by competition as I've done with bicycling.


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## Jamcaster (Oct 14, 2000)

From what you describe,It sounds like you would be into fishing for rooster fish along the Pacific coast of Mexico, that would be a relatively short flight for you from Utah to the Mexican coast. I have had friends from Florida and the Outer Banks go on those trips and have a great time walking and casting for roosters. Look up surf fishing for Roosterfish on YouTube, there are several videos.There is one guy in particular name Jansen that has a store that supplies rods,reels,lures and all the equipment you would need. There are several guide services available that you should be able to book a trip with,good luck.


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## Ronald H Levine (Jul 9, 2016)

Wow! Thanks, Jam caster! I'll go look now. I sought out pierandsurf.com for exactly this. I talk to fishermen around here and most can't help me with any information on surf fishing.


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## Ronald H Levine (Jul 9, 2016)

I watched ... looks fun. But, I want the full experience which includes making a fine meal and eating the fish.

This discourages me from Roosterfish:

Roosterfish ... aren't considered a good eating fish.

As a child, I have fond memories of catching (cooking and eating) red snapper deep sea fishing from the family boat 40 miles out from Grand Isle, Louisiana in 200 feet of water about ten feet off the bottom. But, that's a different kind of fishing. My next fishing style will be surf fishing. What fish should I target?


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## Jamcaster (Oct 14, 2000)

Roosterfish are not the only species caught from the surf,if you look at some of the videos you will see mahi-mahi and some species of snapper being caught(both are very edible).Contact one of the guide services and tell them what you want to target and they will put you on the fish.Other than that you can go to the Outer Banks of NC(much farther away) in the fall and if you get lucky be there at the same time as a bluefish blitz!You can also Go skishing,putting, on a wetsuit and swim out to the rocks and fish for stripped bass(very edible) at Montauk Point,Long Island.Fish the beach at Sandy Hook,NJ for blues and stripers.All of these types of surf fishing activities seem to fall witin your parameters


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## DaBig2na (Aug 7, 2011)

I am a state powerlifting and also bodybuilding champion. I own my own gym, and a personal trainer. I eat clean and healthy 98% of the time cardio at least six hours per week and weight training four days per week. As long as I can get my 8nBait in the hunt ... I'm good.

I have yet to have a fish ask me how much I can bench, squat or deadlift.
Nor has a fish asked me to to do a front double biceps pose.

Casting is technique and timing. Twisting, Pulling and pushing


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## BigWillJ (Jan 21, 2001)

I represent the flip side of that DB2.
In response to the OP, I got into tourney distance casting at an age when others were thinking about getting out. My idea of weightlifting was getting out of bed and lifting a fork. Older and far short of anything that resembled good form, I made it to the 600 club. Without better technique, and realizing I wasn't capable of more distance, I stopped there. Weightlifting = distance?....for me, fits the saying, if I knew I was capable of more distance, I would have practiced more often so I could achieve the technique and timing it takes for that distance. As an aside, it was difficult dropping out of competition. Great bunch of folks to be around.


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

Ronald H Levine said:


> I'm excited about using my new surf fishing equipment, but not being near a coast, I'll mainly just practice cast to gain proficiency. But, ultimately, my purpose for distance casting will be surf fishing someday. I'm thinking ahead because when I go surf fishing I'll want advantages of lures or bait and weight that cast furthest. The bicycling comparisons were to show my insights that possibilities for increased casting distance might be available or can be made. I suppose a surf fishing supply website that has those things would be good for me to study. If I try to look into surf fishing here in Utah, mostly no one knows what I'm talking about. The other bicycling reference is why I want to make fishing athletic ... walking the shore and covering lots of water with long casts and cast and retrieve of lures is more of a workout than casting bait and weight and waiting. I'm into physical fitness and tend to measure improvements and gain motivation is by competition as I've done with bicycling.


Here is a question to ponder . . .

Is it easier for a weak person with excellent technique to build strength or for a powerful person with poor technique to learn excellent technique ?

Tight Lines !


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## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

Dave: 
I would say it is easier to learn good technique than build strength. Maybe not easier but faster. But since good technique will out throw power, IDK who would win


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## 1BadF350 (Jul 19, 2006)

spydermn said:


> Dave:
> I would say it is easier to learn good technique than build strength. Maybe not easier but faster. But since good technique will out throw power, IDK who would win


The guy who has as much of both as possible


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

1BadF350 said:


> The guy who has as much of both as possible


Danny Moeskops . . .


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## 1BadF350 (Jul 19, 2006)

I can assure you it aint me, or 2na. I have great form but lack power. I'm graceful like a ballerina.
2na has the power but looks like a monkey throwing a banana when he casts. LOL


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## DaBig2na (Aug 7, 2011)

You saw me throwing that old yellow stump heavier I've had for over 20 yrs .. I think you're getting that confused with a banana ..
Isn't there a no banana rule anyway? No bananas on the end?


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