# "best spinning reel" Ideas?



## BlaineO (Jan 22, 2001)

If you wanted to make the best spinning reel for distance casting/fishing, what would it be like......

I think the gear drive systems are pretty good in most decent spinning reels, ergonomically I would like to see the reel be closer to the rod, and for the bail and spool, something manual, maybe something along these lines. This should make for a simpler, stronger reel.

What would you change or add?


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## Tacpayne (Dec 20, 2008)

I thought I read simpler. I dont think I get what you are trying to do here. If I really wanted simpler I would do a bailess conversion on it. explain what you are doing with the cage over the bail please, so my simple mind can understand.:redface:


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## BlaineO (Jan 22, 2001)

Hi Tacpayne,

Good question(s).

The purpose of the hardware over the spool is to essentially be the first guide, kind of like a spin casting reel in a heavy duty sense. There is a slot at about a 65° angle that the line is put in to cast, and removed form the same slot and put on the line roller to retrieve. The angle is enough to keep the line in place unless it is manually removed. This allows the reel to be mounted closer to the rod butt, easier to hold the line for casting, since the reel does not have to be positioned far enough away from the rod to minimize line slap.

When folks are casting a spinning reel over 100 yards or so, ever notice the helicopter noise? That the line whipping around like a mini tornado, sometimes even slapping against the rod, and this causes quite a bit of drag, more than "the guide" being mounted this close to the spool. Less that 100 yards or so, the open spool seems to offer less drag, from my playing around.

By not having a traditional bail, the stupid thing flipping over during the cast can't happen. 

The roller, and a “capstan” (That's the the horn kind of looking thing toward the front, it used to wrap the line around so you don't tear the skin off your casting finger.), are mounted to heavy duty mechanism just to hold up to a tight drag, or the weight of the payload being cast when the capstan is being used. I should probably do another sketch showing how the capstan is used, but I just want to see what others think would be important right now.

Does that make things clearer?

Blaine


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## Tacpayne (Dec 20, 2008)

I get what you are saying.I dont think it would work very well though. When I build rods and place the Choker guide to close to the spool it makes a drastic difference in the cast, in the testing that I have done anyway. When it is out 47-52" away from the reel something as small as 2" can give an extra 10yds. Choking it that early would really restrict the cast and the line options IMHO, but would still have to check one out and see if it worked for myself


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## BlaineO (Jan 22, 2001)

I had heard and thought the same thing, but when I tried it just above the spool, I found out things are different.

The guide has to be smooth and centered above the spool, about the same distance away from the top of the spool as the diameter seems to work well. The mechanism can't be flimsy, if it starts shaking, the cast goes to crap.

It is really strange how quiet the cast is.

I “think” one of the issues that cause bait casters to generally cast further on the casting field is too much line spills too early, and the sinker has to pull the extra line through the air creating more drag at an angle rather than more or less directly behind the sinker. I also know if the line starts slapping the rod, the sinker will wiggle if flight, and you will lose 50' in a heart beat when that happens. 

I also think that is why I see the open spool being better at less that 100 yards is the line whipping off of the spool does not create as much drag and is the case when casting farther and the sinker is going much faster.

I would also like to be able to use the spinning reel on a casting rod, without having to change the guide placement to be optimal. If I'm going to wish, wish big, I guess. I under stand the spline would not be correct, but but fishing with bait, I don't think it would noticeable. I do think Field casting would make it noticeable.

Blaine


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

Kudos on thinking out the box, do you have a legitimate way of getting your design into a prototype?

Robert


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## BlaineO (Jan 22, 2001)

Hi Robert,

Thanks for the kudos.

I don't want to create a design myself, to manufacture. I really don't believe a person or even a small corporation can enjoy enforcement of intellectual property rights anymore. Been there, done that.

Besides, if that were my goal, I just lost my rights to patenting by presenting it here.....

No copyright symbol, you may have noticed that as well.

These are my ideas, many hours have been spent designing and prototyping, casting and cursing, tweaking and refining, and I have enjoyed the process, as I usually do when designing things. I have the ability and access to equipment to make parts and mechanisms as needed. 

It's public domain now, and what ever is added or changed publicly will be as well.

I would like to see some innovation in reels, and as Lou mentioned in another thread, not much is new, but the combination of ideas to create some beneficial does exit, regardless of if the elements are new, old, recovered, found on ancient scrolls, you get the idea. I want better reels available, I gave up on fame and fortune some time ago.

I really would like for a manufacturer to take the ball and run, to have someone implement a collection of useful ideas with modern spinning reels.

We have open source software, why not open source reel design?

Blaine


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

How are you Blaine?? I hope all is well with you and your family.

I miss this kind of techno-babble.

Tommy


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

How are you Blaine?? I hope all is well with you and your family.

I miss this kind of techno-babble. Do you have a working prototype??

Tommy


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## BlaineO (Jan 22, 2001)

Hi Tommy,

We're all good, hope things are well with you and yours.

I do have a cobbled together prototype. 

Good going with the casting, you're doing great.

Blaine


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## BlaineO (Jan 22, 2001)

One thing that should be changed in the sketch, is a taller spool to lessen drag and have the line not drop as deeply on longer casts.

Does that sound reasonable?

Blaine


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## BlaineO (Jan 22, 2001)

Taller spool, hi viz line.










Blaine


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## Tacpayne (Dec 20, 2008)

I would like to see the prototype compared to the reel without the cage. I would think that the shape of the spool and angle of the spool lip would play a very important part in the design


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

BlaineO said:


> These are my ideas, many hours have been spent designing and prototyping, casting and cursing, tweaking and refining, and I have enjoyed the process, as I usually do when designing things. I have the ability and access to equipment to make parts and mechanisms as needed.


I guess what I am asking is do you have a "real life" example of this design? I know it is more money than most people have to try to protect their thoughts nowadays. I would love to see pics of your prototypes and results from practice. It is a very interesting design that I for one would be seriously interested in reading the results from. I am not a "spinner guy" per se, but I do enjoy the thought process and results from those who go out on a limb and try something different.

Robert


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## BlaineO (Jan 22, 2001)

What I have sketched is what I have. The short spool represents a Ryobi, the taller Diawa and Shimano. 

T,

I have not modified any of the spools I've used in prototypes, and I have used Diawa, Shimano, and Ryobi spools/reels. They have all improved in distance when reaching over 100 yards of so. The spool design does have a strong influence, but you can't use modified spools in SCUSA events, so why bother? 

If you want to see a sketch without the overhead guide, I'll be happy to do that. If you want to see a particular spool profile, let me know what you want to see.


TKF,

I want to see what other think would make a better distance casting spinning reel.
I have made a trash can full of prototypes, and now I mainly model things 3-6-9 times before I build, it's faster easier, and less frustrating. 

Eventually you have to try a real reel, but the ideas and designs are what I would like to see in this thread at this time, I don't want to color ideas as being good or bad, I just what to the ideas from the sublime to the outer limits of imagination.

The problem with posting a pic of a real world item is folks look at it and say, that's what he means.
No more thought is usually given to add or take way, ho-hum, have a nice day.

I enjoy thinking outside the box, but I also enjoy seeing what others think will work.

As far as results go, and this is for me only, with just a plan spinning reel, I cast around 650' in good conditions. With a reel modified as I have indicated, I am occasionally over 700', same conditions. I think I am a competent caster (Some days, anyway), no more or less. 

Part of it is I am smoother with the capstan during the release, part of it is the guide reduces the helicopter effect of the line flinging off the reel, and part of is plain confidence and not having to be concerned with the bail closing or the shock knot catching the first rod guide.

Blaine


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## Tacpayne (Dec 20, 2008)

Are you going to come to the Nationals? I would like to see this in person.Im not a spinner guy, but would really be interested in seeing this


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## BlaineO (Jan 22, 2001)

T,

No, I just don't have time to do it justice, too much travel time, and not enough time to practice.

I see you are in Salisbury, you are not that far from me. I am in Kernersville.

I actually passed through there today on I-85. Maybe we can arrange for you to check it out. 

Again, it is very much like what you see here. I would much rather see what others have to say and expand on that than display what I have done so far.

Blaine


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

I really wish I had some kind of constructive input for you. Spinners might as well be rocket science as far as I am concerned. I do not have a working physics knowledge of them. Good Luck.

Robert


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## kingfish (Feb 28, 2004)

The biggest problem with fixed spool to me is line twist, but the only fix I know of is conventional gear. It is interesting you can get that much better distance with your design, can't wait to try a zebco on a zziplex. 

What line are you casting?


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## BlaineO (Jan 22, 2001)

KF,

The Zebco Great White 808 series works just fine with coasters, I thought I would save you a step..........the end of the line separates from the spool abuptly, be warned, not much capacity there. 

Line twist does not go away, but I seem to have less issue, not as much slack line heaped all over the place.

I like Yo-Zuri with spinners. I wish I could say I have tried braided line with this, but that is yet to be done.

Are you getting big Kings down that way yet?

Blaine


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## kingfish (Feb 28, 2004)

Well I might take issue with the statement, you are no more than a competent caster, especially putting yozuri out past the 700 foot mark. All indications are that the braid would add 20 plus yards, unless your design is negating the difference. You got something going there it would seem. Still twisted line sucks, but i put up with it trout fishing every time, shad fishing too.

Kings; the bigger ones are starting to cruise the beach and gorge on the mullet run. After more years than I care to admit to fishing for kingfish, I can say without a doubt, big kings love mullet. Several thirtys from the piers and a commercial I know caught 4 boxes on a half day this week, all 10 to 12 pounders.


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## BlaineO (Jan 22, 2001)

Thanks KF,

I have to do some re-thinking and more thinking to do about this whole idea.

The “cage” has to be sturdy enough to stand up to casting, and is, but I had not not tried repetitive casting until today.

I don't know how I missed it, but in my excitement of getting the fundamentals of the design right, I omitted something I should not have. This is the part where you have to try the real thing, and this humble pie is really tasty.

The rotor balance absolutely bites, and as one sided as the cage is, it only stands to reason that it would be unbalanced.

I have to come up with an acceptable support for the guide that can either be balanced, or that does not spin with the rotor.

In the words of Jimmy Neutron: Think.....think....think..think. :redface:
Blaine


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## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

I'm an (almost) complete newbie to spinners, but I may have something to add. The edges of the slot in the ring could be a problem. I would think that with the speed of the line moving during the cast, that edge could cause nicks or slivers in the line.

My solution would be to turn the slot vertical, instead of the horizontal alignment like in your design.

I may be offbase about it, as I said I'm definitely not a spinner guy.

Evan


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## BlaineO (Jan 22, 2001)

Hi KF23,

The angled slot actually has the edges chamfered, so it does not harm the line, as far as I can tell.

I tried a vertical slot at one time, and the line did not travel smoothly around the guide, and would occasionally catch, if I am understanding things correctly. If i am not, please let me know.

Thanks for the input.

Blaine


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## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

No, you understood correctly. I had thought about beveling the edges of the slot to eliminate damage but was still having a hangup about the line running over an angled surface. I didn't even consider the damage potential of the line jumping a vertical opening.

Evan


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

This is a working prototype Blaine?

There are many spinners on the market now with spool profiles that permit consistent 600+ft casts with fishing equipment; Daiwa has been doing it since the mid-80's with the SS-9000. 

Spool profiles and lip angles have been refined and finishes have gone hi-tech and now the pattern of line lay is engineered to the point of ridiculousness (Shimano's super slow oscillation has the the rotor wrapping line 90 times for each oscillation of the spool). 

IMNSHO line flow off the reel has been pretty much tweaked to its limits; the gains that remain to be made I think will come (and have recently) by improving line flow _after_ the line leaves the reel.

One reason Lowriders (20mm gatherer guide) work so well is the distance the gatherer is placed from the reel. When I was building my All Star 1507 back in January of '04 for the Basia I just bought, info was scarce and in Japanese. Hundreds of test casts later the gatherer guide was fixed 52 inches from the reel stem. With the downright violent line dispersal of the Basia the big problem was blow-by. 

The high velocity of the line, even with its very low mass (20lb braid), caused the line to run past the guide and then fish its way back. Adjusting the first guide's distance incrementally further from the reel eventually met with success of no blow-by.

That being said, I can not see how blow-by would not be horrible with that cage and especially the ring so close to the reel. I, honestly speaking here as a tweaked out spinning reel junkie, can not see this helping a reel surpass the performance of today's premier long spool reels. 

One other thing, just about all the modern engineered for distance spinners have manual bails that lock; no inertial closing or handle turning induced closures happen with today's engineered for distance reels.


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## BlaineO (Jan 22, 2001)

Sgt,

Thanks for the input, it is appreciated.

As I mentioned earlier, I overlooked something I should not have, and I will see if I can correct that.

I initially started with the cage/guide idea with nothing in mind regarding improvements in distance, I was tired of the blow by and the shock knots catching the first guide. I suspected that the cage/guide would impede distance with light payloads, and it does, but not much. But with larger weights the opposite seems to be true. 

From what I can see, unless the cast is made hard enough with enough weight to be cause the line to be heard unraveling with a normal spinning reel, there is no improvement in distance using this idea.

Your points are well taken, and I would guess 95%+ of power spinner users would agree, and honestly, six months ago, I would have too.

As I mentioned earlier, I overlooked something important I should not have, and I will see if I can correct that.

Thanks again,

Blaine


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## BlaineO (Jan 22, 2001)

*Why not?*










Blaine


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## Tacpayne (Dec 20, 2008)

Give it a try and see. I wouldnt mind coming up there and seeing it


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## BlaineO (Jan 22, 2001)

T,

I'm planning to get one together, it will take some time,

To make it light enough, I'll probably got with composite or an aluminum/composite combination. So I get to make molds, joy o' joy. 

The cool thing if this works out is the line will not be flopping around all over the place, it will either be under the roller to retrieve, on top of the roller to cast, or in the line guide as the line is being cast.

We'll see how it does.

Blaine


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## Tacpayne (Dec 20, 2008)

Let me know, I am always looking for people to cast with, your not to far from me


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