# CHARTER CAPTAIN BUSTED!!!!



## Blue (Sep 5, 2001)

anybody see the front page today? how many years of experience do you need to learn how to read radar. just shows how much of a joke the virginia beach charter fleet is.. 

Pretty work!!


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## Kozlow (Oct 25, 2002)

Post a link I'm curious
Kozlow


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## rlott (Oct 19, 2002)

http://www.pilotonline.com/sports/sp0118fish.html 

At least the Capn stood up and took the hit on the chin.

No GPS???

Rich


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## rockhead (Nov 6, 2002)

You forgot to mention that CLAUDE BAIN was on the boat too, he is setting a great example for for us virginia fishermen!


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

Fortunate that it was NOT Claude Bains fault that he was that far out HE was not at the helm.
There is no need to fault Claude or any other that was on that boat.
It just a bad deal that it happened!!


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## Heaver (Feb 7, 2001)

"just shows how much of a joke the virginia beach charter fleet is.. "

Actually the majority of the fleet is owned and/or operated by highly skilled professional fishermen/captains. That Herb Gordon made a mistake only goes to show that most of these fellas are just as vulnerable to mistakes as you and I are. These guys are not "untouchables" as some perceive them to be, they're just regular folks like you and me. It's unfortunate that some highlevel names were involved....

Lou


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## Sandcrab (Mar 20, 2002)

Tough call...How are you supposed to know when you reach the 3 mile line and are now in Federal waters? GPS doesn't tell you unless the Capt put some waypoints on his GPS to alert him.

Not like drawing a line in the sand....


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## Blue (Sep 5, 2001)

i guess it couldve been anyone


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## Freddrum (May 19, 2000)

Didn't Dr Jim have this same screwup 2 years ago?.......Tough luck but when you're past the boundaries ya gotta pay the price......DOH!


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## jay b (Dec 1, 2002)

Ditto on the human part just shows that any one is capable of screwing-up, and it was a fine line less than 4 mis. out. It wasn't just Mr. Bain with him Mr. Welton of the Va. CCA was onboard too. You're right about Dr. Jim, but fortunately he too was just a customer that day even though he was on his son's boat.The best thing about both incidents was that the Captains took full responsibility and claimed their own screw-up rather than letting the others onboard, of which none could stand the publicity, taking the blaim as well. Just like the old saying goes anyone can screw-up but it takes a good man to claim his own.


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## TDAU (Oct 9, 2002)

I DON'T PERSONALLY KNOW THE THREE INDIVIDUALS IN QUESTION, I ONLY KNOW OF THEM. WITH THAT SAID, I HAVE A HARD TIME BELIEVING THEY DID'NT KNOW THEY WERE 3.9 MILES OUT.( WHAT ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO SAY? )IF ANYTHING, THEY WERE PROBABLY MORE AWARE OF THEIR LOCATION THAN MOST. IF THEY WERE REGULAR JOES LIKE MYSELF NOTHING WOULD BE MADE OF IT. THEY COULD FLASH A SHEEPISH GRIN,PAY THE FINE, AND MOVE ON.


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## jay b (Dec 1, 2002)

Just a slow day @ the Va. Pilot. It's amazing what is considered "news" now-a-days; the front page of the local sect.??!!come on. That's why I try to look at the sports page first, most of the time they tell you about other persons accomplishments where the rest of the paper is ragging about someones screw-ups.The funny page is always next!!


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## PlankCaster (Oct 22, 2001)

Alright guys,
I cant vouch for the other two captains that you have mentioned but I happen to know Dr. Jim personolly. He is one of the biggest advocates of conservation and preserving our sport for the next generation that I know of. He wants to save this sport and the fish we catch for his grandkids just like I'm sure the rest of you guys do. I believe wholeheartedly that he had caught the fish in question outside of the 3 mile limit and was on his way back in when he was cited. I also aplaud his son David, the captain of the boat, for taking the accusation "on the chin" This is just what I have to say about someone whom I know to be a good man and very willing to help newcomers into the sport. 
Tight lines and popped riggers guys


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## Heaver (Feb 7, 2001)

Sandcrab, the 3mile limit is plainly marked on nautical charts such as Capt Segull's. Also, many GPS unit are now of chartplotter variety that have the lay of the land overlay on the screen so its easy to see where you are.

I agree with TDAU, I too have a hard time believing that they did not know where they were. That Herb answered as he did I question, but what else could he have said. I agree what TDAU is saying that if anything they were more aware than most of their location. I know for a fact that their boat has precision nav equipment onboard that can pinpoint their location within a few feet. I mean Herb can run his boat many miles offshore to locate a wreck with no problems.....

Laters,

Lou


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

tdau ask your buddy Scott about being busted.

heaver not all charts are marked with a three mile line. maybe the the one you mentioned and maybe not the one onboard the mentioned boat that day.

we all make mistakes.
LET IT GO.................


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## TDAU (Oct 9, 2002)

FISHMAN
MY ONLY REGRETS ABOUT GOOD BUDDY SCOTT BEING BUSTED IS THAT I WASN'T WITH HIM. I'M SURE YOU HAVE HEARD THE WHOLE STORY, BUT IF YOU HAVEN'T IT'S WORTH HEARING. SOUNDS LIKE A SCENE FROM A 3 STOOGES SKIT. NOW DON'T GET ME WRONG, I'M NOT TRYING TO PASS JUDGEMENT ON THOSE GUYS AND IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT SUCH A BIG DEAL HAS BEEN MADE OF IT.I JUST HAVE A HARD TIME BELIEVING THEY WERE UNAWARE OF THERE LOCATION THAT'S ALL.BY THE WAY, IF YOU STILL HAVE A COPY OF THE ARTICLE ABOUT SCOTT BEING BUSTED, I'D SURE LIKE A COPY FOR MY SCRAPBOOK.


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

TDAU know Scott well. I have heard his story and the fools who boarded needed more training. Wasnt trying to bust anyones chops.
Mistakes do happen.


Rick


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## Heaver (Feb 7, 2001)

Fishman, you are correct that not all charts are marked with the 3mile limit line.

Personally I could care less that Herb went over the edge.

The intent of my posts are to show that with the simplest of equipment there is no way that a boater is going be "lost". 

Capt Segull Chart #CBM119 is marked with the 3mile line, GMCO's Cape May Cape Hatteras Offshore chart is not. I do not know if it is marked on my other charts, they are on the boat. Regardless, it is easy to stay inside, or get outside the 3mile limit. I have both LORAN and a GPS chartplotter on my boat and though I consider myself to posses on the most basic of navigating skills I can easily tell where I am at with the use of a chart and compass, the LORAN unit, or the GPS alone - no radar needed. If I as a recreational boater/fisherman have these charts and equipment onboard I doubt a commericial would have anything less.

As an example of how easy it is, entering the 37 lat/longs below into your gps and saving them as a route, then selecting that route to nav, the gps will draw the selected route on your gps screen showing the 3mile limit all along our coast down to NC. This information is widely known, passed on, and shared. 

3MILE01 N37 15.859 W75 43.106 
3MILE02 N37 14.863 W75 43.706 
(snip-snip)
3MILE36 N36 23.486 W75 45.878 
3MILE37 N36 22.208 W75 45.519 

Though earlier on this same thread I originally attributed Herb's blunder to "human error" in reality I privately found this hard to believe. But hey, give the guy the benifit of a doubt. There is a bunch of postings going on in the other boards re this topic, Herb is just going to have to weather the storm - he, afterall, started it.

Lou


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## Blue (Sep 5, 2001)

``I would never jeopardize their reputations by going outside the line on purpose,'' he said. ``They both grilled me about staying inside the line before we went out and several times on the trip.


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## fishnkid (Sep 30, 2001)

First of all, why do you come on this board and diss some of the best fisherman in the area. There only human and do make mistakes. Im sure you guys all have made a few. Also Im sure they have gotten enough grief lay off of them. Im sure if any of you were in the same situation you feel terrible.

No offense to any one though just had to make a point that everyone makes mistakes.


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## Blue (Sep 5, 2001)

how do you define best?... by size of fish or size of boat?


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## Surf and Turf (Oct 1, 2002)

Sorry guys, that ain't no mistake. We aren't talking 3 feet, were talking 3 MILES, 18,000 nautical feet. That's a lot of fishing area. There has to be plenty of fish between shore and 3 miles out. My take is he knew damn good and well where he was.

Heaver is on the money. Good compass and chart and you know exactly where you are, period and if you can't see land you've gone too far. Your going to tell us that a Capt. can find a ship wreck on his chart, but can't find three miles out. Yeah right!

So they may all be great guys, but THEY screwed up and HE took the blame. (No, I don't believe the others stories either!) He's doing exactly what he should, just like the rest of us when we speed, run a red light or whatever and get caught, paying the fine and riding the tide of opinion.


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## TDAU (Oct 9, 2002)

some gps chartplotters are accurate to within 3 meters. heck my handheld unit is supposed to be accurate to within 15 meters ( app. 49' )


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## rlott (Oct 19, 2002)

Does anyone happen to know where Mr. Gordon derives the title “Captain?”

The reason I ask is because if he holds a US Coast Guard Master’s (Captain’s) license, depending on what level of Master’s license he holds, part of the requirements are to complete a “radar observer” and an ARPA (Automatic Radar Plotting Aid) course.
http://www.uscg.mil/STCW/deck/licform.htm 

Rich


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## johnnyreb74 (Feb 22, 2001)

After 30yrs one would like to think they could read radar. As for the others how can they regulate fishing if they don't know exactly what the chaters and captains of said charters are doing.   It really leaves one wondering just how the rules apply doesn't it.


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## rockhead (Nov 6, 2002)

I have "heard" that an easy way to figure how far out you are is by the depth of the water, Im sure it doesnt apply to anywhere near the mouth of the bay, but for the rest of the oceanfront its probably true. What I "heard" is that 40 ft of depth is just about on the 3 mile line around here. if your along the oceanfront and in more than 40 feet your probably close to being illegal. Its a tuff call.. on one hand I find it hard to believe that they didn't know where they were if it were 3.1 miles maybe, on the other hand I couldn't imagine any of the three would be willing to risk bad press for some striper? Who knows the truth is probably somewhere in between not knowing and not caring!


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## skunked (Jun 4, 2001)

Everybody simmer down. It happened, all involved were publicly embarrassed, only 3 fish were harmed in the making of this mistake..
Next question. Does the 3 mile limit apply to commercial guys? And just where the heck is the 3 miles from? I mean it's three miles from my house to the Hampton BBT.


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