# Spring Shad run??



## Guest (Jan 24, 2004)

Hey all,


I know the spring Shad run should be comming up the Rappahannock River pretty soon. Does anyone know about the time it starts? Or at least when it hits the Fredericksburg area?


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## Kenmefish (Apr 21, 2000)

We always said when the Dogwood trees bloom, which is in April around here. Some years it is a little earlier but most year it is in April around Fredricksburg. Maybe some of the local people down that way could give us a hollar when it happens. Sure is fun on light tackle. 

Tight lines...

Ken


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2004)

yeah, I thought it was in April. I thought it was like end of April into May. Does that sounds right? I can't remember and I havn't fly fished for them yet. I'll will be trying it this spring.


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## wizardude (May 19, 2002)

The rivers I fish, normally start picking them up right after the Yellowperch start slowing down, and the White perch and Stripers start their run, depending on the winter, usually late march/early April.


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## blue bird (Apr 25, 2003)

Hey, do you guys know where the Yellow Perch go after their run?
I always thought they were exclusively a freshwater fish, but they are rarely caught in the Nottoway River in the summer. I know the White Perch go into the ocean, but do the Yellows go out to sea also?


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2004)

blue bird,

Are you talking about these fish in the picture? These are a colder water fresh water fish and I can't see them going out to sea. If these are what you're talking about, I'm surprised they tolerate brackish water.


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## sharkbite (Jun 8, 2001)

I've caught them in brackish water (lower choptank river MD) I think i've only ever caught one outa there while i was fishing for catfish. 

Tight Lines


Tim


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2004)

You know what? Now that I remember, I saw a couple caught in the Potomac a couple years ago just north of Quantico, VA. It does get brackish there during periods without rain. The yellow perch I seen caught were real small and the colorings were different from that of yellow perch caught in the Great Lakes region; they were more faded. Yellow perch is a highly sought after fish in the great lakes region--great tasting. They are good fish to catch when ice fishing.


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## sharkbite (Jun 8, 2001)

it was 60 degrees here today, no ice fishing for me 

Tight Lines


Tim


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## wizardude (May 19, 2002)

*Yellow Perch*

Where does the yellow perch live? 
Yellow perch thrive in clear water near aquatic vegetation, be it in lakes, ponds, or streams. Their range extends through the central North American continent, but they have been introduced into so many other places, their natural range has been difficult to ascertain. They are extremely hardy and can survive in water with extremely low oxygen content as well as relatively high salinity. 

Common Names: Ringed perch, raccoon perch, striped perch.

Best Fishing: Brackish water tributaries of the Chesapeake bay and Potomac River. Top waters here include Machodoc, Maddox, Aquia and Occoquan Creeks. Rivers: Potomac, Mattaponi, Rappahannock, Chickahominy, Nottoway and New. Lakes: Western Branch, Prince, Waller Mill, Little Creek, Moomaw and Claytor.

Fishing Techniques: Ready feeders, but cautious biters and slow movers. Locate schools of fish by drift fishing or use deep jigging methods. Small minnows are the best overall bait. Other popular live bait include mummichogs, mayfly nymphs, worms and grubs. They’ll also hit fish eyes, cut bait and pork rind, as well as artificials tipped with some of the above, including small spoons, spoon hooks, spinners, bucktails, spinner baits and streamers.

Identification: Member of the family Percidae, which includes the walleye, sauger and numerous small darters. Generally olive-green above, fading down the sides to green or yellow-green, to yellow or golden yellow. Has eight vertical dusky bars on its side and a silvery, underside. Dorsal fins have a distinctive dusky blotch. Ventral and anal fins are yellow to orange, turning a bright orange on breeding males. Average 6 to 8 inches, but commonly reach 14 to 15 inches and 1-1/2 to 2 pounds. State Record: 2 pounds, 7 ounces from Lake Moomaw.

Feeding Habits: Juvenile perch feed on plankton, turning to aquatic insects, then small fishes as they grow larger. Occasionally they feed on crayfish, snails and other invertebrates, and the eggs of other species.

Habitat: Ponds, lakes, reservoirs, slow-moving streams, sluggish portions of large rivers and in tidal brackish rivers. Tends not to roam except during spawning runs. Prefers clean, cool water. Seeks out deeper water in summer and is often found over sandy, rocky or marl bottoms and over low-growing aquatic vegetation.

Spawning Habits: Runs in schools up tributaries to spawn in late February or early March when water temperatures reach 45 to 50 degrees F. Also seeks out shallow shoals in lakes where water movement will aerate eggs. No nest is built, and the females release eggs in long gelatinous “ribbons” or “streamers” which are fertilized by the males as they are released. Spawning activity takes place at night.


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2004)

wizardude,

Good info you posted there. Anyone know any good places, such as ponds that might be good to fish for yellow perch that contains no PCB's? I don't feel like eating these little delicacies from the Potomac and other possible tribs that have a high PCB concentration.


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## mitchmtm1 (Aug 11, 2003)

Last year the shad were here about march 20th...but not in good numbers untill the beginning of April. By the second week of April Last year I had several 200+ shad days (I fish almost every day in the spring, most days for 5-8 hours). With all the rain keeping the water so cool last year they stayed around untill about mid May. I guided (for free) several guys from one of the other boards and will again this year. I will post on here when they show up and anyone who wants to try can let me know. Last year they wanted small shad spoons (look like a small drone spoon) in silver or gold. Also you can save money on shad darts by just using small marabou crappie jigs (they work as well and you can find them much cheaper).

The yellow perch will show up about mid Feb to March in the Rapp near Fredericksburg. 

Last spring was a great for white perch, crappies, smallmouth, and largemouths. 

Near the end of the shad run the herring run begins (thats the one associated with the dogwood and cherry blooms). The stripers are alot of fun at this time and days of 30 - 40 are not uncommon. They are not the monsters, but most are 14" - 26". They are real suckers for cut herring on a circle, wild eye shads, and big clousers.

Mitch


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2004)

Mitch,


Good info there! Those dates give me a good idea now. About the shad, are they hickory shad or white shad. I also plan to do some fly fishing and once in a while cast some spoons and spinners; do ya know any good fly patterns ( I heard yellow/red patterns) and how small are these spoons?


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## Smoothbore54 (Jun 8, 2003)

Kenmefish said:


> *We always said when the Dogwood trees bloom, which is in April around here.
> 
> Tight lines...
> 
> Ken *


Here in Southern Pa, the old timers call the Forsythia Shrub, "Shad Bush".

I've been watching this cycle for about 25 years, and the appearance of the bright Yellow Blooms, is a very accurate way of predicting the Shad Run in the Deleware and Susquehanna Rivers.


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## blue bird (Apr 25, 2003)

Pauky,

Those are the Yellow Perch I'm talking about. I'm thinking the mystery of where they disappear to in the summer will remain just that a mystery!


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2004)

blue bird,

I know yellow perch dig colder water and up in the Great Lakes, they come in close to shore, harbors, and rivers in the spring (to spawn) and fall. During the summer, they also disapear; they go out to deeper water where it's cooler. When the fall comes around, they come back near shore and perch fishermen come back out. During the winter, the ice fishermen are having a blast with them. Yellow perch feed good during the winter.

So I'm sure they are just finding deeper holes and holding in the cooler water.


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## littlefry (May 5, 2003)

I know this is a crasy question, but what is spawning? Do fish stop biting? Is this whats consider mating time? Please advise.


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## wizardude (May 19, 2002)

littlefry said:


> *I know this is a crasy question, but what is spawning? Do fish stop biting? Is this whats consider mating time? Please advise. *



Yes, mating time, and no they don't get lockjaw, quite the opposite


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2004)

littlefry said:


> *I know this is a crasy question, but what is spawning? Do fish stop biting? Is this whats consider mating time? Please advise. *


Yep, you're correct. The fish, both male and female, come up the rivers (in some cases, but not all) and lay and fertilize eggs. As for the fish not feeding, that depends on the species. Some dont' feed like Chinooke & Coho Salmon for the most part, but they can feed at times. They mostly strike out of aggression. Other fish do feed during spawning and feed heavily like the yellow perch.


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## blue bird (Apr 25, 2003)

Pauky,

You are probably correct about the Yellow Perch holding in the deeper holes in the summer. That is the hypothesis I've always heard. However, there is still a mystery. The Nottoway River has some deeper holes (30 ft.), but they aren't plentiful or all that big. Considering the number of perch caught this time of year those holes would have to be slam full of fish down there and they would still feed. So how is it that very few yellows are caught after mid-March? Those 30 ft holes are fished year round. I'm not suggesting that we are wrong about them being there all year long. I just think it odd that it is as if they go somewhere else.


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2004)

bluebird,

I'm not real sure about the the area around here. I know the yellow perch on the Great Lakes or land locked lakes, they just go deeper for the cooler water. In the spring, the perch come and hang out in the harbors and larger rivers near weed beds and structure. They can be caught left and right with small minnows during their spawn. When the water gets warmer in June, July, and August, they are much less abundant(peole switch to the plentiful small mouth bass fishing); they head back out into the Great Lakes. When the water cools off in the fall, they come back. 

Here's my thought: in the summer months they lay low in deeper cooler water and may not feed as much during this time, just like when steelhead and other fish become inactive and lethargic when water temps drop real low during winter. 

I really can't speak for tidewater rivers in Maryland and Virginia. I've never fished for them and only seen a couple caught and took notice to the smaller sice and lighter shade of green and yellow.

If you can catch these fish in any good numbers and size, clean them up and eat them because they are one of the best tasting fish, at least up north. Many argue they are better tasting than walleye.


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## blue bird (Apr 25, 2003)

Pauky,

I grew up in northwestern PA and used to catch Yellow Perch up there. Yep, they taste good. They're bears to scale. They may not bite as well in the summer, but you could still catch them.

I'm just wondering about why they disappear so in these rivers.


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2004)

bluebird,

You're correct, you can still catch them during the summer; they just are not as plenty and you notice the drop off in the bite when it gets warm. These fish tend to swim in schools that are segregated by size. It's possible that the larger ones go somewhere else and the smaller ones stay, who knows. I just now that spring and fall are great to catch them. They are great to catch during the winter if you're into ice fishing. 

I found this link about yellow perch in Maryland. It gives a little insight to where they might be going. If you're talking about them leaving in summer, are you way up in the tributaries somewhere? That link says they leave and go back to shorewaters. I'm curious to how close they get to the ocean.


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## Mummichog (May 19, 2003)

*Per the Shad run...*

Just a few notes on the shad run.

Make sure you have the correct license. You need salt below the fall lines and fresh above.

You can keep herring, alewife, and hickory shad below the fall lines, but not American shad. You cannot keep any shad or herring above the fall lines.

Shad runs start earlier in the south and later in the north.

They are not feeding, so don't throw cut bait, they only bite out of instinct. Stick with very small artificials. They like the gaudy stuff...acidic colors with lots of flash. Bring some heavier tackle/lures as stripers are often following later in the season.

Shad like low light, so fish the upper water columns during low light/stained waters and lower columns during the day/clearer water.

They are not the brightest fish in the world and get a little freaked out by any obstruction in the river...logs, rocks, riffles, etc. Thats usually where you'll find them stacked up...waiting until they figure out how to get upstream.

They school, so find one and you've probably found hundreds.

They will move upriver for miles and miles...Jefferson caught them in Charlottesville on the Rivanna.

They are in most all, if not all, tidal rivers from Florida up Maine and just into Canada.

They are fragile fish out of the water. De-hook them under water if you can and please don't handle them by the gills...their gills are damaged easily and you'll be releasing a soon to die fish.

Some of the best spots are the Rappahanock at the flats for waders & fly fisherman, the James from 14th St and up past Belle Isle.

I think the fishery is up for review again at the end of this year, which may mean that fresh shad and shad roe (mmmmm) may once again return to our plates.

Shad fishing is awesome, they run and jump like small tarpon...donate some money to the Pamunkey or Mattaponi Indian tribes as they are hugely responsible for bringing this fish back to our waters.

For all you bronzeback/small mouth fisherman out there, shad fry are an important addition to there diet. Get on the bus...

Write a letter to your local congressperson about removing dams on your local rivers. Rivers should run freely, not be damned.

Hope that helps...


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## Guest (Feb 1, 2004)

Mummichog,

Thanks for the further information on the Shad run; you made some very good points. 

I should be OK on the licenses, I have both. I do have a couple questions if you don’t mind clarifying for me. The Fall line: is this the same thing as the snow line in the mountains? If not what is it and where would I know where the mark is? Although I'll practice catch & release with the Shad, I'd still like to know what/how/where the Fall line is.

I went to that Green Top just north of Richmond and I was advised to try the flies in the picture below. According to the guy who helped me, chartreuse is the choice color to use. I've heard of red/white combinations; have you heard of this type of color for shad? Also, what colors are "acidic" in nature?

As for the heavy lures for the Stripers, how far can the Stripers follow the Shad up river? I'll be fishing the Rappahannock in Fredericksburg; can they come that far up? And where are the "flats" on the Rapp.? I'd definitely like to get into some of that action. 

I'm curious as to how the Pamunkey or Mattaponi Indian tribes are responsible for bringing this fish back. Can you fill me in or provide a URL link to a Web site I can read over. I just might be interested in helping out their cause.

Again, thanks for the fantastic information you provided and I'll definitely handle the Shad with care when I de-hook them and release them.


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## Mummichog (May 19, 2003)

The fall line is typically where there is an extreme drop in land height over a short distance, not necessarily a waterfall, but usually, in VA, a series of rapids, falls, etc. In Richmond it ends at the 14th street bridge and starts somewhere north of Richmond proper. On the Rap, it ends at the Rt. 1 bridge and starts ? somewhere back up the river. The end of the fall line is usually the start of the tidewater region and hence the change in fishing regulation. Most don't realize, but the tidal range of the bay exists that far inland and you can notice tidal changes in the water heights at either Richmond or Fredericksburg. Most anadromous fish will go up past the fall line, but it depends on the amount of water the fish has to swim in. Check with the state regulations to be sure, but as far as I know, you need saltwater licenses below the 14th street bridge on the James and below the Rt. 1 bridge on the Rap.

Per the fly selections, I am sure they will work. Red and white is an old standby, always has and always will work. Hot orange is usually the shad fishermans color of recent times, though. However, there are days when they seem picky and may want chartreuse or maybe silver or maybe gold. The best thing to do is have a selection of each and find what works best for you. It tends to be more about size, so keep the hooks small...and barbless.

Stripers do come up to Fredericksburg and Richmond. The "flats" are the Falmouth Flats just below the Rt. 1 bridge that is accessible to waders from either side of the river. Most wade in from the park on east side of the river...but parking can be tricky. Striper fishing here is more like icing on your cake...sweet when you get it but never enough of it. It's not a dependable fishery, rather more like a good surprise. Below the 301 bridge you will find more of them. The James has good striper fishing by boat below the 14 St. bridge also.

See http://www.ffflyfishers.org for some more info. Those guys hold meetings monthly and can be very helpful to you for fly fishing in general and definitely the best source for shad fishing info in the area. For the James, check out http://flyfishtheworld.com/robsjamesriverflies.htm as they have a shad fly they developed that works really well and they can help you out with the James should you go there. They are in Richmond proper, but not that far from Greentop. Plus, they beat Greentop hands down on anything fly fishing.

Per the Pamunkey Indians, there shad page on their home site went under construction recently, but try this:

http://www.bayjournal.com/98-05/shad.htm

http://www.baylink.org/mattaponi/shad.html

Also, read John McPhee's book, the Founding Fish.

Here's some good advice taken from FFFlyfishers.org.

"The trick to catching shad is to get your fly deep. I'm using a beadhead fly, tied on a #4 SS hook, fished on a 18" leader, with a intermediate sinking fly line. Cast up and across, mend upstream, let the fly settle before stripping and you'll hook most fish on the swing but sometimes on the upstream retrieve. Look for holding water where the current is broken."


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## wizardude (May 19, 2002)

Mummichog said:


> *The fall line is typically where there is an extreme drop in land height over a short distance, not necessarily a waterfall, but usually, in VA, a series of rapids, falls, etc. In Richmond it ends at the 14th street bridge and starts somewhere north of Richmond proper. On the Rap, it ends at the Rt. 1 bridge and starts ? somewhere back up the river. The end of the fall line is usually the start of the tidewater region and hence the change in fishing regulation. Most don't realize, but the tidal range of the bay exists that far inland and you can notice tidal changes in the water heights at either Richmond or Fredericksburg. Most anadromous fish will go up past the fall line, but it depends on the amount of water the fish has to swim in. Check with the state regulations to be sure, but as far as I know, you need saltwater licenses below the 14th street bridge on the James and below the Rt. 1 bridge on the Rap.
> 
> *


Good info, but needs one correction... yes the regs do change "above" the fall line, but no saltwater license is required untill you get waaaaay farther downriver from the fall lines, unless this is a new change in regs that I'm not aware of. Shad require very light line. Go from 6lb to 4,and you'll double your catch.


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## chest2head&glassy (Jul 2, 2002)

Daggone Mummichog - that's alot of useful info on the shad. I hate to ask what you know about the mummichog. 

I have family around the Spotsy/F-burg area and plan on hitting the Rap this spring. You know how the smallies been doing there these past years?


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## Oyster (Jun 28, 2000)

*Salt Water license---*

is not required at the fall line of Va tidal rivers. In the James a salt water license in not required unless you are fishing below College Creek which is in the Jamestown area. On the Rappahannock you do not need a salt water license unless you are below Tappahannock. The line where a salt water license is required is well down river from the fall lines.


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## Mummichog (May 19, 2003)

*Thanks much for the clarification...*

Per the small mouth on the Rap...they're there. And so are the brutes. I think most will agree the rain made things a little difficult last year, but they're there. Again, look in the FFFlyfishers, they're the authority on the situation of the river for that area. 

Thanks to those who cleared up my incorrect facts, much appreciated.  I never really worry as I usually just by both licenses, and only pay attention to it when fishing for striper, hence the fall line specs, but then I may have been wrong about them as well. Man...I lose my license often enough to the washing machine that I should probably own stock in VDGIF/VMRC.

*Regulations as per the VMRC site:* 


A recreational saltwater fishing license is required in Virginia's portion of the Chesapeake Bay, its tidal tributaries, and Virginia's Territorial Sea._ Boundaries associated with these areas are described below:

"Territorial sea" means the waters within the belt, three nautical miles wide, that is adjacent to Virginia's coast and seaward of the mean low-water mark (from COV 28.2-100; this is the outer Atlantic Ocean boundary of Virginia tidal area requiring a license from the Commission). 


Freshwater/Saltwater License Lines on Tidal Rivers 

Persons fishing upstream of the designated lines on the following waters must have a valid freshwater fishing license while those fishing below the lines must have a valid saltwater fishing license: 

…..Potomac River: Route 301 Bridge 

…..Rappahannock River: Route 360 Bridge 

…..Piankatank River/Dragon Run: The 1st set of power lines immediately upriver of Anderson Point 

…..York River System (including the Mattaponi and Pamunkey Rivers): Route 33 Bridges 

…..James River: A line connecting Hog Point and the downstream point of the mouth of College Creek


Below these designated lines a freshwater or saltwater license will be valid on any tidal portion of any tributary entering the above mainstem waters. 

The following waters are entirely freshwater and require a freshwater fishing license throughout: Meherrin River; Nottoway River; Blackwater River (Chowan drainage); Back Bay, Northwest River, and North Landing River and Intercoastal Waterway upstream to Great Bridge Locks; and Dismal Swamp Canal below (or South) of Deep Creek Locks. 

For more information on Freshwater licenses and fishing contact the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries.


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## Guest (Feb 2, 2004)

Mummichog,


WOW! You're just full of good information. I found this stuff interesting to read. I think it's awesome that the Indian Tribes are doing so much to restock the shad. I thought the state done that.

Thanks for the info again; it will come in handy for sure!


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