# Tog/Seabass/Grouper Setup Help Please



## fingersandclaws

Being winter, and having more time since I'm not fishing so much, I get too much time to look through catalogs and wonder about getting "things I will probably need for this year". Add another fellow enthusiast whispering sweet nothings in your ear such as "we need boat rods for tog" and "what reel do you think would be good for it".

Scenario: Will be targeting Tog, SeaBass, and Grouper. Want to stay around $100 for the rod and under $200 for the reel.

Questions:

1. Rod recomendations? 

2. Reel recomendations? Please try to recommend a rod that would accomodate both Tog AND Grouper (I know they are different class fish) but I would like 1 setup instead of multiple. 

Thanks everyone in advance.


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## cygnus-x1

Here we go opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: 

When are you going to target Lapu-Lapu ? (Grouper)


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## JerryB

i don't know squat about tog, but IMO sea bass and grouper require two different rigs. 

for sea bass a 30 lb outfit is plenty, i would look at a penn 545 or even a jigmaster. for rods a star dlx-28 would be nice for around $90, penn slammers are always a reliable choice

for grouper i think you need a little heavier, i personally fish a 40 lb outfit cause i got one, but if i were shopping i would go for a penn 114H and spool it with 60 lb mono. you can buy those in penn combos for a fair price. 

cheers
jerry


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## Talapia

That range is too wide. The leap from
seabass to grouper is huge.

You need to look at how often you will
be fishing for each fish. Seeing as
how you live in MD I would guess that
seabass and tog would be the target
99% of the time...? Based on that 
I would recommend that you find 
a nice outfit for those fish and then
just rent one when you fish down
South for grouper!


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## fingersandclaws

Thanks Talapia. I know you do a lot of boat Toggin', do you have a specific setup that you have / want? Tryin' to stay around the 200$ mark plus or minus. Prolly goin' on Monty's boat in the very near future.


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## Talapia

fingersandclaws said:


> Thanks Talapia. I know you do a lot of boat Toggin', do you have a specific setup that you have / want? Tryin' to stay around the 200$ mark plus or minus. Prolly goin' on Monty's boat in the very near future.


You will want to pick a rod that feels 
good to you. I like a rod that is around 
7' to 7'5" so I can keep the 
line out away from the bottom of the
boat if the current is taking you under
or a fish goes under the boat. The rod
should be able to handle up to 12 ounces
of weight without bending too much. 
This is critical because you will need to 
find the structure and that means moving 
your rig around. If the rod is too soft
then it is hard to get a good feel of the 
bottom. The rod should also not be 
a broomstick or a nice size tog will
bend the hook or break-off during a 
run. It should be firm but have a little
give to it. Especially if you are using
braid. There are tons of rods that fit
into those ranges. Ugly Sticks to 
Lami. Just depends on what you want
to spend. My favorite bottom fishing
reel is the Shimano Tekota. I love that
reel. Good price, strong, and smooth
as silk. A nice outfit should run you 
about $100 for the rod and $130 for
the reel. That outfit will cover all of 
your bottom fishing needs in MD and
VA. The outfits that I use are
another story...some of my outfits
cost up to $650...and Anthony will
still kick my butt all day long with his 
cheap Ugly Stik


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## AtlantaKing

F'n'C, listen to Talapia. There are no rod/reel combos that will cover seabassing, toggin and grouper digging well. The seabassing/toggin rods will be light and sensitive, but a keeper grouper will whoop you on it. The grouper rods will put the hurt on a grouper, but the seabass and tog will rob you blind. Trust me, I've tried it and failed miserably. I've gone to 30lb braid and a light graphite composite rod for seabass/tog but have gone to 100lb braid on a reel that puts out 26lbs of drag on a heavy stand-up rod for grouper. I'd say, get a good combo for the seabassing and toggin since that's the bulk of the fishing up this way, and hope you don't hook into big grouper if you head south


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## finfinder

The tekota 500 w/40 lb braid is a tough little mother. Since Talapia has given you his favorite $130 reel I'll add my favorite $100 rods.

The first is the Shimano trevala 6'6'' medium heavy. My fishing partner uses a trevala and likes it a lot. The second is the Shimano tallus 6'6'' medium heavy.


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## hustlur

I would recommend these rods that I use at the west coast. They are really whippy and the blanks are produced by a high-end company + it's made here in the U.S.A. I like the 8 footer 15/40 myself. $125 a piece (Fuji Reel Seats, Alkanite guides, and it's graphite and glass)


As for a reel, I would go with a single speed LX by AVET.


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## hustlur

Here is my 8 footer with my Avet LX 2 Speed that I used for catfishing.









Here is a 25lb White Sea Bass on the same set up.


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## striperswiper

hustlur said:


> Here is my 8 footer with my Avet LX 2 Speed that I used for catfishing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a 25lb White Sea Bass on the same set up.


dude you catch alot of fish :beer: youve had a photo in almost all of your post :beer: that freakn awesome


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## LiteTackleChamp

what about a nice shiamno TLD 15 combo, you can get a nice one with a soft tip at BW, i bought one a couple months back and even use it for kings. it was about 165 for the combo


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## AtlantaKing

For a decent, but inexpensive, togging rod, try the "Lep Stick" (to borrow a term from a Noreast.com Mod), also known as the "Bass Pro Shops® Graphite Series Muskie Rods". It's 6'3", rated up to 40lb test line and handles 10 ounce weights beautifully. Yes, it's a bit short, but I've personally seen one in action and they put the whupping on tog. The best part is that their normal price is $29.99, but often go on sale for $19.99 (like every other month... ) Put the Tekota 500 on that, load it up with some 40lb braid and have at it. The whole thing, line included would run under $200!


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## fishbait

fingersandclaws said:


> Add another fellow enthusiast whispering sweet nothings in your ear such as "we need boat rods for tog" and "what reel do you think would be good for it".


I guess that makes me the "horse wisperer". Or some other animal similar to a horse depending on if you like fingers or not. 

Sound like the "go to" reel is going to be the Tekota 500. I'm convinced that that reel has all the right stuff. I still got questions about the rod. I think there is a lot of agreement about the length being 7'. It looks like there are several categories of line class. Which one should I choose?

MH - 15 to 30 lb
H - 20 to 50 lb
XH - 20 to 80 lb

Since it's a boat rod, I guess any of the above rods can drop any amount of weight to the bottom. But, is sensitivity the issue here or the ability to move that weight around on the bottom.


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## catman

For toggin' I like the Avet MXL60 single high speed (6.3:1) spooled with 65# Power Pro Super Braid. Plenty of speed and power to get the tog up and out away from his hole before he can turn.

For the rod I like a 7' single piece glass med heavy to heavy action with a med heavy tip. If the tip is too soft or whippy you really can't get a good feel of the bottom structure and you'll end up missing a lot of holes.

Personally I think the rod is the most important piece of equipment. This is what actually catches the fish. Good reels are a dime a dozen but a truely good rod is hard to find. This is where I spend the bulk of my money.


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## LongIslandtoMD

*Recommendations*

_Being winter, and having more time since I'm not fishing so much, I get too much time to look through catalogs and wonder about getting "things I will probably need for this year". _

I hear where you are coming from. The winter time makes us all a little itchy. You notice things become a little more tense on the message boards (and at home)….people are ready to get back out there in the outdoors.

Anyway, while catalogs have there place, at times they can lead you in the wrong direction. For the most part, the catalog can tell you a few important things: price, the material the rod is made out of, and the length. From my experience, you can’t really trust the “line ratings”. How can a rod handle 15-50lbs? What does “M” really mean? What does “MH” really mean? I think it’s a lost cause.

I think the better approach is to figure out what you are going to use the rod for. I don’t know much about Grouper, so I will go with two fish I know a fair amount about, tog and sea bass. I presume that you will be fishing on the bottom for these two fish (unless you were planning on jigging up sea bass, which is a different conversation). In my opinion, what you need to figure out is what sinker range you will need. Will you keep it inshore and use 6to 8 oz? Or will you be out in a higher current area or offshore where 10-16 oz. is more common? That is what you really want to know. There are additional factors to consider, such as: do you prefer Eva or Cork grips? Do you like graphite or glass? Re: graphite vs. glass, graphite will be lighter and more sensitive (and maybe more expensive) but will be stiffer. This can be a problem if you are using braid and aren’t exactly experienced with it. Also, it might not be the best choice if the fish you are fishing for have a soft mouth and you might pull the hooks. You didn’t ask, but I prefer glass. I like when a rod bends into the lower third, but still has power. Do you like a longer rod? I do. I like it to be 7’6”. The key, in my opinion, is to write down a list of rods you think you might like, and head to the store with a pocket full of sinkers. Go and pick up each rod, flex it, see how it makes you feel. Tie a sinker to the end and see if it can actually accommodate the anticipated weight. There is simply no replacement for flexing the rod yourself. 


_Questions:

1. Rod recomendations? 

2. Reel recomendations? Please try to recommend a rod that would accomodate both Tog AND Grouper (I know they are different class fish) but I would like 1 setup instead of multiple. _


Okay, time for the fun part. I know there are some price limits, so I will try to go easy. I am assuming that custom is out. I own a “lep stick”. Eh. Its okay. Okay okay, I don’t really like it. Its too stiff, and its too short. But it is a good deal. Its built on an IM graphite blank and has Fuji guides. I bought into the hype and found out it sucked. But to each their own.

Rod: 
So what do I recommend? I like the Lamiglas BL7030C. It is a few dollars above what you asked for, but my reel recommendation saves you money. It will serve you well for both tog and seabass. And it’s a composite, so it has aspects of both graphite and glass. I fish with my custom rods, but I ALWAYS take this rod with me…and end up using it at some point in the day. That should run you about $130. Check it out on ebay.

Reel:
First off, I don’t think that level winds are all that appropriate for saltwater bottom fishing. Really, the less moving parts, the better. While the Avet’s are good reels in warmer weather, they are primarily a jigging reel. That is what they do really well. And they are a little pricey. But they look really nice. Also, I don’t think you need such a high gear ratio, like 6.5:1. It doesn’t give you the low end torque that you need. That’s not actually not entirely honest. It can do the job, but I think there might be a better choice.
So what do I recommend? Pick up either the Newell 220 or 229. I own both. If you like the narrower spool, go with the 220. The reel shouldn’t run you more than….$130.

I know that you have price limits, but it is much better to make a wise investment, take care of it and fish with it for 30 years, then to waste your money on junk (Cf. my Lep stick debacle).


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## fingersandclaws

LItoMD,

Thanks for the specific reply, you not only answered some questions, but more importantly, made me think of some new ones that I didn't even consider. Plenty of time to do research, winter seems like it just started here in MD  Thanks again!!!


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## Ryan Y

*penn 3/0, 7' star rod*

I just use it as an all around ground pounding rod (bottom fishing).
We dont see to many Tawg down this way. I see them when I go diving in the early spring or fall on occasion and I will shoot them spearfishing. But for Black fish and grouper and all else in between, this is all I use.


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## LongIslandtoMD

*FingersandClaws*

F&C:
Not a problem. Im glad I could be a help to you. Actually, I have a few other rod recommendations for you. 

1. Seeker BA (30) 7. 
2. Seeker BA 85
3. Lamiglas BL 7020.

If you are interested, I have a brand new BA 30(7). You can research it online, and let me know a fair price. _Only_ if you are interested. Im not into selling stuff to people because I don't want to overcharge. Anyway, I don't plan on fishing with it anytime soon, so 'round spring if you want it, let me know.

Or, if you do make it out on Monty's boat on Saturday, I can bring it along with me and you can pull on it.


Henry: Dont be so hush hush. What rods do you have in your arsenal?


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## hustlur

LongIslandtoMD said:


> _Being winter, and having more time since I'm not fishing so much, I get too much time to look through catalogs and wonder about getting "things I will probably need for this year". _
> 
> I hear where you are coming from. The winter time makes us all a little itchy. You notice things become a little more tense on the message boards (and at home)….people are ready to get back out there in the outdoors.
> 
> Anyway, while catalogs have there place, at times they can lead you in the wrong direction. For the most part, the catalog can tell you a few important things: price, the material the rod is made out of, and the length. From my experience, you can’t really trust the “line ratings”. How can a rod handle 15-50lbs? What does “M” really mean? What does “MH” really mean? I think it’s a lost cause.
> 
> I think the better approach is to figure out what you are going to use the rod for. I don’t know much about Grouper, so I will go with two fish I know a fair amount about, tog and sea bass. I presume that you will be fishing on the bottom for these two fish (unless you were planning on jigging up sea bass, which is a different conversation). In my opinion, what you need to figure out is what sinker range you will need. Will you keep it inshore and use 6to 8 oz? Or will you be out in a higher current area or offshore where 10-16 oz. is more common? That is what you really want to know. There are additional factors to consider, such as: do you prefer Eva or Cork grips? Do you like graphite or glass? Re: graphite vs. glass, graphite will be lighter and more sensitive (and maybe more expensive) but will be stiffer. This can be a problem if you are using braid and aren’t exactly experienced with it. Also, it might not be the best choice if the fish you are fishing for have a soft mouth and you might pull the hooks. You didn’t ask, but I prefer glass. I like when a rod bends into the lower third, but still has power. Do you like a longer rod? I do. I like it to be 7’6”. The key, in my opinion, is to write down a list of rods you think you might like, and head to the store with a pocket full of sinkers. Go and pick up each rod, flex it, see how it makes you feel. Tie a sinker to the end and see if it can actually accommodate the anticipated weight. There is simply no replacement for flexing the rod yourself.
> 
> 
> _Questions:
> 
> 1. Rod recomendations?
> 
> 2. Reel recomendations? Please try to recommend a rod that would accomodate both Tog AND Grouper (I know they are different class fish) but I would like 1 setup instead of multiple. _
> 
> 
> Okay, time for the fun part. I know there are some price limits, so I will try to go easy. I am assuming that custom is out. I own a “lep stick”. Eh. Its okay. Okay okay, I don’t really like it. Its too stiff, and its too short. But it is a good deal. Its built on an IM graphite blank and has Fuji guides. I bought into the hype and found out it sucked. But to each their own.
> 
> Rod:
> So what do I recommend? I like the Lamiglas BL7030C. It is a few dollars above what you asked for, but my reel recommendation saves you money. It will serve you well for both tog and seabass. And it’s a composite, so it has aspects of both graphite and glass. I fish with my custom rods, but I ALWAYS take this rod with me…and end up using it at some point in the day. That should run you about $130. Check it out on ebay.
> 
> Reel:
> First off, I don’t think that level winds are all that appropriate for saltwater bottom fishing. Really, the less moving parts, the better. While the Avet’s are good reels in warmer weather, they are primarily a jigging reel. That is what they do really well. And they are a little pricey. But they look really nice. Also, I don’t think you need such a high gear ratio, like 6.5:1. It doesn’t give you the low end torque that you need. That’s not actually not entirely honest. It can do the job, but I think there might be a better choice.
> So what do I recommend? Pick up either the Newell 220 or 229. I own both. If you like the narrower spool, go with the 220. The reel shouldn’t run you more than….$130.
> 
> I know that you have price limits, but it is much better to make a wise investment, take care of it and fish with it for 30 years, then to waste your money on junk (Cf. my Lep stick debacle).



 Great Info!!!!

For another $130 reel is the Daiwa Saltist 30H. It's also a great all around reel.


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## LongIslandtoMD

*Saltist 40*

In addition to the Seeker Rod, I have a Satlist 40, completely unused, in the box, if anyone is interested. PM and we can talk. I dont want to sidetrack this thread and get it sent into the Classifieds section.


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## hustlur

LongIslandtoMD said:


> In addition to the Seeker Rod, I have a Satlist 40, completely unused, in the box, if anyone is interested. PM and we can talk. I dont want to sidetrack this thread and get it sent into the Classifieds section.



Sorry about the thread jack....Long Island do you want to trade that Saltist for my 9 foot Seeker.


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## Talapia

LongIslandtoMD said:


> F&C:
> Not a problem. Im glad I could be a help to you. Actually, I have a few other rod recommendations for you.
> 
> 1. Seeker BA (30) 7.
> 2. Seeker BA 85
> 3. Lamiglas BL 7020.
> 
> If you are interested, I have a brand new BA 30(7). You can research it online, and let me know a fair price. _Only_ if you are interested. Im not into selling stuff to people because I don't want to overcharge. Anyway, I don't plan on fishing with it anytime soon, so 'round spring if you want it, let me know.
> 
> Or, if you do make it out on Monty's boat on Saturday, I can bring it along with me and you can pull on it.
> 
> 
> Henry: Dont be so hush hush. What rods do you have in your arsenal?


I have a factory Calstar 700M
1 Gator Blank PB Cod rod (never used )
1 Custom Calstar 700L
1 Custom Calstar 700 ML
2 Factory Seeker 709 Inshore Series
1 St Croix Muskie Rod
4 Ugly Stik saltwater MH rods
(same type as Monty's)

As far as reels go I have:
1 Daiwa Saltiga 15 (love it)
3 Shimano Tekota 500's
1 Shimano Tekota 700 (deep drop trips)
2 Penn 310 GTI 
2 Penn 330 GTI
1 Avet SX reel 
1 Avet LX reel 

I do not use the Avet reels anymore.
The little SX could not stand up to 
tog fishing. I had to send 2 back for
repair. The LX is fine, but I do not 
like using it in the winter time. It
gets cold as heck. It all comes down
to what you have confidence in.


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## catman

That Daiwa Saltiga 15 is one sweeet reel. I'd pay the $380.00 for one in a heart beat if it was available in the left hand model. I just bought an Avet MX high speed left hand that I'm hoping will be sufficient for tog. Right now I'm sort of stuck using the Penn 321 GTI's. Not many left handed conventionals out there. I've got some real nice Calcuttas but they are too light.


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## old linesides

Although I own 4 Tekotas , I use them strictly for trolling , when you need the level-wind . My go to all purpose bottom rod is a Shimano Compre Musky Rod , 6'8" X-Heavy $99.99 . Pair it up with a Shimano Torium 16 or 20, $169.99 or $ 179.99 spooled with the braid of your choice . This reel has a higher gear ratio and more torque than the Tekota and more line capacity . If you're fishing in water deeper than 200 feet and leads over 20oz , you want the Torium or as others have suggested , any of various Avets . I've done alot of deep drop fishing and I see alot of guys using Newel Reels as well . I've never tried them but guys seem to like them . I like my Shimanos . JMTC


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## echo_island

i just picked up an avet sx for fluking. am i going to regret it?


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## LongIslandtoMD

*It depends*

Money-wise. Sure its possible that you regret it. 

Fishing-wise. You shouldn't regret it. Fluking doesnt usually put alot of strain on your reel. The only major complaint regarding Avet's are related to cold weather. Since the fluke season is closed in the winter months, you should be fine.


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