# The Final CountDown for the Final Plan for CHNSRA has been Published



## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2012-01250.pdf

At least NOW we have something to fight about. No action could be taken till this happened, the Fight Has NOW BEGUN..Keep your eyes n ears OPEN, it might be time for something special...Many of us have talked about this for Years, I'm ALL IN...

JAM


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## crumbe (Jul 22, 2011)

never mind link works now


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## bronzbck1 (Jun 13, 2007)

Keep in mind this is the response to the comments and changes to Plan "F" that was picked. You got to go to plan F to see they picked the overall worst plan for ORV and surf fishing


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## gilly21 (Feb 15, 2006)

So...... comments 16 and 17 are the two that really show leverage for our side (IMHO). They actually surveyed businesses in KDH, Naggs Head, and Kitty Hawk. Admit thay are north of the communities that will truely be effected. But in order to gather data for the communities truly effected they used a computer program to gather statistical data. This seems as ass backwards as can be. Anyone with a brain can see through that smoke screen. What a freaking Joke. OK so I am going to keep reading and see what else jumps out at this simple mind.


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## gilly21 (Feb 15, 2006)

31-How many times has JAM pointed this out. Together we stand divided we fall. No organization to stand together and fight as one unit destroyed us before the fight even began. Contradictory agendas and disagreements from within.....If we do not get all the organizations to fight the same battles as a whole team than we will never win.


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## gilly21 (Feb 15, 2006)

What a depressing read. Way to start out my Saturday.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

Yes Sir it ain't pretty, but its easy to see Y, a fishing report or a DogShark Tourney will get more hits then this Topic, people are just worried about the moment, not about the Future, and when there is no place left to fish, then they will CRY... You and I and others will be able to look in the Mirror, and Sleep well at Night, Because at least we tried.... Most folks can't say that..

It is what it is, I got my loophole, and I will not need their new beach driving permit or class, and I will go where ever I want, when ever I want. With my Com. License, more beach is open to me then ever before.. So the NPS can Kiss My @ss.... 

Thanks Gilly it was just yesterday when we met at the Drum bout 7 or 8 years ago....

JAM


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## Byron/pa (Mar 14, 2007)

Well, thats a happy read...........


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## gilly21 (Feb 15, 2006)

JAM said:


> Yes Sir it ain't pretty, but its easy to see Y, a fishing report or a DogShark Tourney will get more hits then this Topic, people are just worried about the moment, not about the Future, and when there is no place left to fish, then they will CRY... You and I and others will be able to look in the Mirror, and Sleep well at Night, Because at least we tried.... Most folks can't say that..
> 
> It is what it is, I got my loophole, and I will not need their new beach driving permit or class, and I will go where ever I want, when ever I want. With my Com. License, more beach is open to me then ever before.. So the NPS can Kiss My @ss....
> 
> ...


Need a passenger once in a while? You know to help with cutting bait or rigging your hooks


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

Got to pay ya, but it can be a dollar a day, just have to pay ya before we enter the beach to fish, and you have to be paid YOUR dollar off of Park Service Land. So parking lot at the Drum, would suffice and Keep in line with "THEIR" Rules... I have Read and RE-READ the Rule Book, I hope they do the SAME... For every RULE there is a LOOPHOLE...

JAM


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## smlobx (Jul 3, 2009)

JAM said:


> Got to pay ya, but it can be a dollar a day, just have to pay ya before we enter the beach to fish, and you have to be paid YOUR dollar off of Park Service Land. So parking lot at the Drum, would suffice and Keep in line with "THEIR" Rules... I have Read and RE-READ the Rule Book, I hope they do the SAME... For every RULE there is a LOOPHOLE...
> 
> JAM


I'll "work" for $.50!!!


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## KB Spot Chaser (Nov 19, 2009)

I really feel for the residents of Hatteras Island whose livlihoods depend on beach access.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

KB Spot Chaser, it will not be the end of the world, it will just be the end of Beach Fishing. But in reality that ended in 07 with the concent decree, I went from building over 300 rods a year to 8 that year. That was one of the main reason I am now at Teach's. All the HARDCORE fishermen "STOPED" coming in 07. Since then we have what I refer to as the Combo Crowd. They don't know about beach access, and they don't care about beach acccess. As long as they have their Ocean front rental or a one back they are happy. Now thats down in Hatteras, surf fishing shops are pretty much done, and I do feel for those folks as they are my friends and neighbors. 

The Kite Boarding Shops have been Kicking @ss down here, as they are smart and bought sound front property, that the NPS does not control. Kayaking businesses are doing well as long as they have access to PRIVATE PROPERTY launches.. So yes its an end of an ERA, its an End of Tradition, but by no means do I think its the end for everyone.. Most follks do not even Know whats goin on, so how can they miss something, they knew nothing about... I ain't goin no where, as i could not live any cheaper anywhere else in this country..I'm a Camper, and I Camp Everyday....There will be major Impact don't get me wrong, but folks will still come, u watch..

JAM 

JMHO


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

JAM said:


> KB Spot Chaser, it will not be the end of the world, it will just be the end of Beach Fishing. But in reality that ended in 07 with the concent decree, I went from building over 300 rods a year to 8 that year. That was one of the main reason I am now at Teach's. All the HARDCORE fishermen "STOPED" coming in 07. Since then we have what I refer to as the Combo Crowd. They don't know about beach access, and they don't care about beach acccess. As long as they have their Ocean front rental or a one back they are happy. Now thats down in Hatteras, surf fishing shops are pretty much done, and I do feel for those folks as they are my friends and neighbors.
> 
> The Kite Boarding Shops have been Kicking @ss down here, as they are smart and bought sound front property, that the NPS does not control. Kayaking businesses are doing well as long as they have access to PRIVATE PROPERTY launches.. So yes its an end of an ERA, its an End of Tradition, but by no means do I think its the end for everyone.. Most follks do not even Know whats goin on, so how can they miss something, they knew nothing about... I ain't goin no where, as i could not live any cheaper anywhere else in this country..I'm a Camper, and I Camp Everyday....There will be major Impact don't get me wrong, but folks will still come, u watch..
> 
> ...


 No doubt kite surfing,surfing,and other watersports without engines will boom.. NPS accomendates them at Canadian Hole with showers,nice parking lot ect.. They can still get thier stuff on the beach at whatever access points are left and still enjoy the sport.. They can even go by the closures,as long as they don't land on the beach... As you said those that rent thier normal beach front homes,no 4whl drive and every year walk from thier cars and pick up shells will not be effected.. It will be the FISHERMAN that are directly effected..

 It hasn't hurt the inshore guys yet,but it will,as most that fish those charters are on the beach when they aren't on the charter.. Business here will die,many can't see it yet and are insulated from it for a time,but it will die once people have been educated to what is happening..

You'll do fine,and I congratulate you on your com license and how you are working that angle.. Trust me on this though,if nothing happens from our side as far as lawsuite or some way (through elected officials with fed pull) of reversing the momentum of special interest groups,they will come looking to take the rights that were given to the coms years ago....

Jam,it will take me some time to start reading this insaine document that takes the rights and priviledges of fishermen and those that enjoy the use of public land away.. It will take me some time to be able to fully read it without getting sick to my stomach...


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

Yse Sir Kenny, I know I am just prolonging the inevitable, as I agree they will next go after the com portion. I hope something comes out and have been told something will, but man, I doubt anything at this point can reverse anything cept a LAW SUIT.... It took 30 years to get here, I believe it will take at least 30 to un-do. Allot of the Inshore Folks the past several years are newbies, if you can afford to go offshore, well you can afford allot of things. 

Small boaters are the Key to any Marina, and for the past several years we have been gearing more tackle to them. We still have the beach stuff but we made the swing about 3 years ago. Its a Dam shame that they will just not listen to reason.. I'm Pissed cause it never should have got this far, but APATHY runs a muck... Thanks Kenny, I have been working that Com angle for over a year now, and wanted to wait till right before the final was released to show my Cards... The Offer always stands if'n you or Tater ever want to go for a Ride with our Rods... My next curve ball for them is, Com. fishing out of a KAYAK........I can see the heads spin allready....

I still have faith in: Right Vs Wrong, Good VS Evil, but it becomes hard to keep the faith, when a Mother can Kill her 3 year old little girl, and get million dollar offers from PlayBoy and PentHouse... Rabbit Hole and we are goin Down....All I can do is F wit them along the way.... BTW I red it 3 x's, it does not get any better, and the taste of BILE, was so strong in my mouth that it ate some enamal off my teeth... 

I want to take this time to thank You, JODY N TATER for everything that you have done for the Fight for the Beach's.... Hats off to you'all Capt. and I'm sorry we could not do more...But it ain't over yet...(I hope n pray)

JAM


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## Snk-Byte (Jan 21, 2009)

I skimmed through this piece of crap yesterday and actually read it word for sickening word this morning. It's saddening, depressing, maddening and something else that I just don't know how to say.

The "Rule" is filled with skewed statistics and totally incorrect assumptions. For instance; how will adding additional parking lots create more visitors to the Seashore? They could pave the whole west side of Highway 12 in Pea Island and I doubt that there will be any additional visitors. If people get a seven day permit and get blown out for a week (which is totally possible) will they return? I doubt it.

I could go on and bore you all, but I'll stop my rhetoric for the moment and let this sink in. I feel how the Native Americans must have felt when they signed one of those "Permanent Treaties"; "Trust me, it will be good for you".

Hopefully my vote is more powerful than my words.

Sad, sad, sad....


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## Smally (Jan 16, 2009)

> 10. Comment: The exclusion of specific fixed-distance, mandatory buffers for wildlife
> and other natural resource protection in the proposed rule violates the National Environmental
> Policy Act (NEPA) and the Administrative Procedure Act (APA). By excluding those species
> protections from the rule, the proposed rule is outside the range of alternatives considered within
> ...


I've been reading this trash & it seems thus far that when someone pro-access has a comment they simply give the lawyer-talk response that basically states 'too bad. Even if it's unfair, we made sure it was legal'. Then I come across comment #10 here & this commenter is certainly not pro-access. The response to them if you cut thru the lawyer talk again seems much more cordial...

"The rule contains those portions... ...that NPS believes are necessary to comply with the E.O.s and NPS regulations"

"The species management strategies for the Selected Action, as described in the FEIS, are intended to evolve over time... ...to ensure accomplishment of the desired future conditions"

Once you've shoveled off all the BS, to me, this basically sounds like what we've all kinda known & feared. This is only the first step for them. It won't stop here. They are going to continue movin the ball ahead a few yards @ a time.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Smally said:


> I've been reading this trash & it seems thus far that when someone pro-access has a comment they simply give the lawyer-talk response that basically states 'too bad. Even if it's unfair, we made sure it was legal'. Then I come across comment #10 here & this commenter is certainly not pro-access. The response to them if you cut thru the lawyer talk again seems much more cordial...
> 
> "The rule contains those portions... ...that NPS believes are necessary to comply with the E.O.s and NPS regulations"
> 
> ...


Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.


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## redhorse9902 (Jan 5, 2008)

Been coming to the outer banks ever sense 1978. Stopped in 2006 coming in the fall. Kept going in Dec thru 2009. Watched more and more close every trip. my Dad told me years ago if I was going to continue to fish there I had better buy a boat. Enjoyed the trips I made, only got to catch 2 drum over 45", but caught a bunch of other fish. Bought the boat but can be in wilmington in 2hrs. Just aint worth it no more to drive 6hrs to outer banks.. If anything gets started that can overturn this I will be with everyone.


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## VB FISHER (May 24, 2010)

i am 16 and just got my license in sept. i have been fishing on carolina since i was 3 with my dad. i love carolina and the day i got my truck i told my dad i would take him and put him on the beach. we did get to go before the winter. my dad didnt even want to catch fish. he just wanted to be on the beach. even though we only went to oregon inlet my dad loved it. and so did i. it was my first time on the beach but my dad walked me threw what to do and i did fine. my family is still going to vacation their. i will probably end up just fishing off of nagshead even though its not the same.
Noah


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## dena (Jun 20, 2010)

Smally said:


> I've been reading this trash & it seems thus far that when someone pro-access has a comment they simply give the lawyer-talk response that basically states 'too bad. Even if it's unfair, we made sure it was legal'. Then I come across comment #10 here & this commenter is certainly not pro-access. The response to them if you cut thru the lawyer talk again seems much more cordial...
> 
> "The rule contains those portions... ...that NPS believes are necessary to comply with the E.O.s and NPS regulations"
> 
> ...


It's called incrementalism. It is a common strategy well funded and organized groups use to get what they want.
See Gun grabbers, gay rights, civil rights, drunk driving laws...
All started small, made small incremental gains and today, you see what we have.
This, with the beach access will be no different.


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## Phaedrus (Mar 25, 2011)

JAM- how do we know who to get involved with on this?


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## dirtyhandslopez (Nov 17, 2006)

JAM said:


> For every RULE there is a LOOPHOLE...
> 
> JAM


Or, could be said as a loop-rule
Nil illegitamus carborundam.


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## Phaedrus (Mar 25, 2011)

Quis restitit ordinandis


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## Captain Awesome (Jul 27, 2010)

Read through this whole monstrosity and came to the same conclusions as most. They will use loopholes and broad wording of the law to interpret and do what they want. Not sure how this can be challenged and reversed (that's what lawyers are for), but as stated this is just the beginning.


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## EDMboarder (Mar 18, 2005)

*I WILL NEVER STOP COMING, I DONT CARE WHAT I HAVE TO DO TO CATCH A DRUM, BUT I SHALL DO IT, MY MONEY SHALL BE SPENT AT PLACES LIKE RDT, BBM, ect..*


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## Furball (Sep 20, 2002)

Folks, the time is coming to sue to the Park Service that is drafting a rule that is arbitrary and capricious and which contravenes the entire purpose of the park which was to serve as a recreational area for the "People." When the government purchased these lands, it made a number of promises about keeping access to the beaches open to the inhabitants of the islands and those promises were broken. We have not been able to sue since signing on to the consent degree and participating on the rulemaking effort. We participated in the rulemaking in the hope that whatever rule resulted from that would allow reasonable beach access along with reasonable protections to to environment. That has not happened and now it is time unleash the lawyers and go to court. If you want to continue in the fight, please donate whatever funds you can to whatever organization will be mounting the lawsuit (OBBPA, CHAPPA, etc.). This is going cost a lot of money and we need to prepared to all the way to the Supreme Court. I am hoping Justices Scalia, Thomas, Alito, Roberts who have held the U.S. Government strictly accountable in the past to following the statutes enacted for it will vote on our side. Also, maybe it is time to start lobbying to have the State of North Carolina take over this park since the feds have done such a piss-poor job of managing. I have not been following this issue as closely as I should. Does anyone know who is likely to be mounting a lawsuit against the park service? Is is CHAPPA? I am prepared to donate. Tom


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Just a word to the wise.....Don't throw good money to blind faith as we did for many years leading up to this whole mess. Whats done is done and it is going to have to run it's course and get a lot worse before it gets better. Yes it will get better but not until a lot of good people loose what they have workd for their entire life. Blindly throwing money has not worked in the past what makes you think it will work now? I for one have tossed the last dollar out the window over this. Save your money to pay for your beach driving permit. If you really want to help GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND AND LEARN WHAT IS GOING ON. Stop relying on others to tell you what you should already know. Stop asking "what is going to be open in July when I come down", "where online do I need to go to take the class and pay the fee", "why is this happening now".....

This is a money making scheme for both sides......The rich get richer and we get screwed....


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Just one more thing.....The NEW fight does not include us off-islanders. From what I understand it's based on how the "Final Rule" will cost or effect residents and or property owners. Again don't be fooled into throwing money at another blackhole. If I'm wrong show me something..

YOU WANT OUR HELP...THROW US A BONE, GIVE US SOMETHING TO WORK WITH HERE. I for one will not sit in the dark anymore and toss $$$$$$ your way to be pissed away...


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## WNCRick (Sep 24, 2007)

As far as fighting in court goes, it sounds better in theory than it works in practice. I studied physics in college under a gentleman deemed an expert by the courts in recreating collisions. He would even tell you, court is a game and the player with the most money wins. It is a sad fact, but it is true. I feel for everyone involved in this terrible mess; however, being realistic has its place in this fight. If you can't beat them financially, you can't beat them in court, period.... I apologize for bringing up an obvious fact, but someone has to.
I wish the best for everyone involved.
Rick


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## drumchaser (Jan 14, 2003)

One way would to vote these radicals out of washington come November. Listen to newts campaign as opposed to Romney. Romneys nothing but a " yes man" and will be no different than what we currently have. My two cents.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

drumchaser said:


> One way would to vote these radicals out of washington come November. Listen to newts campaign as opposed to Romney. Romneys nothing but a " yes man" and will be no different than what we currently have. My two cents.


Two words Ron Paul, Rommney and Newt are just as much establishment as Obama!


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## drumchaser (Jan 14, 2003)

RP, haha that's a good one. Sorry, but he want be an option this go round either.


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## Captain Awesome (Jul 27, 2010)

Cdog said:


> Two words Ron Paul, Rommney and Newt are just as much establishment as Obama!


I will be voting for him. We need someone to shake things up on many fronts and I think he is the best (of what's available) to do so. Not sure who or why anyone votes for Obama or the other establishment people, it obviously has not been working on many fronts. So many people use the "he can't win" excuse to not vote, but that's precisely why these other morons stay in office.


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## WNCRick (Sep 24, 2007)

As soon as a politician runs on the platform of being a volunteer, I will gladly vote for him/her. Historically, politicians were absolute volunteers serving their territories, there was no financial gain involved, rather a loss. We have no need for representatives with modern technology, we do not need a horse and rider to carry our wishes across the country. We can all express our opinions as fast as our high speed connection allows. The ideas behind representation are null and void.
C'mon guys, its not rocket science.......it's a puppet show....


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## EDMboarder (Mar 18, 2005)

Got a few new items on my Christmas list for next year.

http://www.skishingnewengland.com/blogs/skishinggear.html


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## EABiker (Aug 16, 2010)

Is it time to start an "Occupy Hatteras" movement? Even though I do not support the "other" occupiers, in this case it almost makes sense. It would be an attention grabber which, if played right, would get media visibility and broadcast the message beyond the relatively small group of people who know and care about what is being taken away. If the knowledge of this situation can reach a national level, no telling where additional support may come from. The NPS allows camping on the Mall in DC for those occupiers, why not pitch a few tents, (while wetting a few lines), at Hatteras?


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