# How to throw a conventional



## FunnyFishMan (Nov 19, 2004)

Ok Ok...it may have been asked a million times, but I can't seem to locate any threads on it.

I'm brand new to conventional...so new I haven't bought one yet..I'm getting to it. I need the basics before I head out and get me one.

Basically you thumb the line from the spool and release? Once it hits the water you thumb the line again so you don't get a big mess...is that right?

-FFM


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

The first thing we're gonna need to know is:

What rod do you have on your mind, what reel, and what weight do you want to begin throwing.

Where and for what do you want to begin fishing.

Where conventionals/casters are concerned, one size does not fit all.

Throwing a 1/2 oz. flounder jig with a 5500 on light inshore rod requires a different touch than throwing a 7500 on a 12ft heaver with an 8oz. lead and a big chunk of mullet....

Gimme some particulars and I'll throw in my 2 cents...


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## FunnyFishMan (Nov 19, 2004)

I'm looking to throw a 12' with most likely a Penn 525 or Daiwa SL30. Not sure yet. But I'm planning on tossing around 6oz with bait. That's typically what I'm doing now, but with a spinner. Looking for more distance, just don't really know how.


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

Let's assume that you have a 525 and a 12' Ocean Master 6-12 heaver....

I'd suggest filling the reel with 25# Big Game, Tie on a shocker with at least 40# mono, and get yourself some 6 oz. leads.

Find a safe spot and turn the mags all the way to 8, adjust the spool tensioner on the right to where the weight will fall off the rod tip, but NOT over run when it hits the ground.

Start slow with an overhead thump kinda cast, and gradually throw harder and gradually back the spool and mags off as much as you dare....

Work on a smooth swing, and develop power later.

There's my nickel's worth....

NEXT!


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## VICIII (Apr 8, 2005)

What RR said ... The biggest thing that learned is that casting a baitcaster with that kind of weight is more like a golf swing. While using a spinner you can load the rod as much as you want, let it go and no problems. Do that with a conventional and you lose distance and get a place for birds to land. I have found smooth with solid backbone is the best for distance. When you hit a golf ball with a coach they always tell you slow and smooth, Let the swing timeing give you distance. I believe that concept is the way to learn conventional casting.
But buy what you need and get some cheap mono and cast and cut away the cheap line and start over. It takes few nests to keep the birds away...


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*Incorrect use of SPOOL TENSION CONTROL*



> adjust the spool tensioner on the right to where the weight will fall off the rod tip, but NOT over run when it hits the ground.



As stated on Neil's site.

"There should be barely discernible end float, which in the main will have been set at the factory. Should the end tension need adjusting it should be set so there is minimum but just discernible lateral movement of the spool within the frame when the reel is in free spool."


My 2 cents now.

When winding the the shock leader onto the spool place knot away from where your thumb will grip the spool during the cast. I always lay the knot on the right side of spool and lay the rest of the shocker on the left for a better grip.

And when you need to stop the spool, thumb the edge of the spool and not the line.

I would not use 25# test line, not even for practice, to thick and more memory prone.

Shocker rule of thumb for ever 1oz of lead, use 10# of mono.

6oz sinker = 60# mono for shocker


Just buy a cheap spool of 15 or 17# mono and practice away, when your ready to fish replace mono with a better grade of mono.


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

Orest said:


> As stated on Neil's site.
> 
> "There should be barely discernible end float, which in the main will have been set at the factory. Should the end tension need adjusting it should be set so there is minimum but just discernible lateral movement of the spool within the frame when the reel is in free spool."
> 
> ...



Tightening the spool just a bit will help in the learning process...

25# mono is easier to cast and pick nests out of, and will help in the learning process....

Not trying to start a fight, just pointing out that he's NEVER thrown a caster before. My tips WILL make the learning process easier, whether it's on McKellow's site or not.....


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## eklutna (Mar 12, 2006)

I agree with Orest. 

You want to be a great castor. Do what great castors like Niel Mackellow does. 

1. use his recomend knots

2. Use his recomended shock leader size for a give weigh of sinker.

3. Pratice in a safe area away from people.

4. Most important. Have fun!


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

FF Man ... You will enjoy your new conventional setup ... I guarantee it! I just started using my combo this year (12' Tica and Penn 525 mag). 
Wear a glove on your right hand to thumb your spool. First practice a slow but steady cast. Don't be afraid to lift your thumb a bit early at first. You will soon see when to let it go. Then watch the lead/bait as it sails out over the water. Keep your thumb close by and just as it is ablut to hit the water apply some pressure to the spool. When its your first time tighten up your reel (mag and tensioner) so that its not too fast. As you gain confidence back off on the tightness. I am not at this point yet. I am still throwin' tight but I am at least matching and usually beating my spinning casts.


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

cygnus-x1 said:


> When its your first time tighten up your reel (mag and tensioner) so that its not too fast. As you gain confidence back off on the tightness. I am not at this point yet. I am still throwin' tight but I am at least matching and usually beating my spinning casts.


And there you go, from someone who is in the process of learning, himself.... 

If you spool that reel full of 14#, attach a 60#shocker with a Bimini/Sosin, fill the bearings with Singer sewing machine oil, endplay the spool, and back the mags off to zero, and swing for the fence with a 6 oz. on your first cast, you'll be putting an ad in the marketplace trying to sell that "piece of crap" rod and reel.  

Gotta walk before you can run!

Have fun, and learn something new, that's the most important thing!


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*not wanting to pick a fight either*

but I believe Orest to be right. That knurled knob on the right side of the 525 Mag was NOT designed to be a spool tensioner, as some of you are calling it. It was designed to center the spool while allowing a slight sideplay in the reel. Overtightening it will slow the spool down but you are doing that by squeezing on the bearings- and you can wreck them. If the spool is to fast with the Mag set on full- you need to add additional magnets. (Or take casting lessons)

Using the knob as a tensioner equates to driving your car with the parking brake on. It won't be long before something has to give.

And that is my .02. Keep the change

I suspect BB will chime in hear when he has the chance.


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

I love a good dispute.....  

I am well aware of what the knob is designed to do, and I'm well aware of who BlackBeard is, and the fact that he is the 525 GURU, and he can outcast me any day of the week, and twice on Sunday. 

I'm also well aware of the fact that if a new conventional user snugs it up a little bit in the beginning to help control things while he is getting the feel of the new rod and reel, he isn't gonna wreck anything...

Mine made about a hundred "little bit tight" throws in the beginning while I was getting used to the big rod and big weight. NO ill effects, it runs perfectly, and I've probably thrown it a thousand times, by now. 

In the beginning, this thread was about making the transition to conventional equipment a little easier...NOT who knows more about McKellow's website and the textbook "proper" usage of the 525....

Heck, FFM has not even got a reel yet, and I'm sure he'll read everything he can get his eyes on about his new reel when he does.

Maybe he'll buy a SLOSH, and we can start all over again, with a new quarrel.....


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

> Maybe he'll buy a SLOSH, and we can start all over again, with a new quarrel.....



Agreed


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*Skip the 525 and SLOSH*

and buy a JigMaster 500 and then convert it to a narrow 501 and then mag it.


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

I would say follow Blackbeard's site he has very good information. Don't over tighten the knob on the side of the reel. Heavier line is fine for learning. Also I would take some time to improve your casting. You can do this before you grab the Conv. I would suggest you look up John Holden's site apply his and BB technique's to your casting first. http://www.johnholden.co.uk/ John also sells a Book on CD that would really make it come together (yes more stuff in the book than on the site).


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## SALTSHAKER (Dec 5, 2002)

*conventional*

I have just one thing to add to all that has been said.... that is.... when you start use cheap mono 20 to 25lb test and .... do not fill the reel all the way. Only go half because a full reel will spin faster and control may be a problem.. start with half or a little better than half and work up to it.... just my .05 salt


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

FFM,

If at all possible find an experienced caster to help you through the early stages of the learning curve.

Good advice given here so far, heavy line, lower line level, maximum mags on magnetic reel, brake blocks. All of these will help you control the inevitable backlash. On reels that have the bearings located inboard on the spool (abu 55-6500, 525 mag) I would avoid overtightening the endcaps, you can cause bearing damage. Reels with the bearings located on the spindle ends (7500 abu, daiwa 30) can be controlled with a little end tension without bearing damage. 

Once you get the hang of it you will love em!!

Good luck. 

Tommy


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## derekxec (Apr 26, 2006)

Surf Cat said:


> Overtightening it will slow the spool down but you are doing that by squeezing on the bearings- and you can wreck them.


get a decent reel and you wont have this problem...i have a shimano trinidad TN30 thats about 4 years old and its been used for about 3 years of running tight for people to learn how to cast(lol like 20 people have learned how to cast on it so far haha) and not one problem...hell it hasnt even been oiled or greased one time


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## Lip Ripper (Dec 8, 2003)

*525 mag*

i gotta chime in here, my first conventional reel was a 525, i had never thrown one(conventional) before and i have to say with the factory mags turned all the way up it is damn near impossible to nest it. you could be casting in the dark with the wind in your face and not have to worry at all!! as long as you thumb it just as it hits the water it will do fine. but watch out when you start turning the mags below about half way.


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## njreloader (Jul 21, 2005)

*525 mag*

I to have just gotten my first conventional after reading the posts on this site and others and decided to go with a 525 Mag and so far I have had only 1 birds nest and that was my own stupidy. So far I like and I'll be trying it out again this weekend.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

derekxec said:


> get a decent reel and you wont have this problem...i have a shimano trinidad TN30 thats about 4 years old and its been used for about 3 years of running tight for people to learn how to cast(lol like 20 people have learned how to cast on it so far haha) and not one problem...hell it hasnt even been oiled or greased one time



It's nice that you can afford high end reels, I have a couple myself. I just wouldn't recommend one to someone brand new to conventionals. (I doubt they would want to invest that kind of dough) Nice reel nonetheless.


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## derekxec (Apr 26, 2006)

you can get them used for like $200....i cant stress enough that they are worth every penny...years and years of hard use with little maintenance and super strong...but you are right i wish everyone could afford high end reels


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## FunnyFishMan (Nov 19, 2004)

WOW!

Lots of great information, I think my head is going to explode. I think my best bet would be to find someone who can give me a hands on lesson and tutorial so I can understand the lingo. Tightening the mag, setting full or half way...it's all foreign to me. None the less, I appreciate everyone taking the time out to add some input. I just gotta go do it and take the good with the bad...it's all about learning. 

Thanks Fellas!

-FFM


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## Sandcrab (Mar 20, 2002)

*Using a conventional...*

Rule #1 - Use very cheap line when starting out as backlashes will occur.
Rule #2 - Concentrate on what you are doing with the reel and your thumb.
Rule #3 - Let it rip! Don't try to put too much force into it at first. Just get the hang of it.

I usually make my first cast on the lean side until the line gets wet and stretched out...

Sandcrab


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

FunnyFishMan Take a look at the info on the OTG Blackbeards and John Holdens. Then worry about the next step, since a spinner or a fixed spool(which ever you call it) will do the job. Doing this will get rid of the snap in the cast setting you up for a smooth cast with the Conv making the transition easy.


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