# Attention all P&Sers



## FL FISHERMAN (Sep 30, 2002)

I just want to say before I start off I hope I don't offend any one on purpose. Or accident even for that matter. I just want it to be know that this type of stuff won't be taken anymore. The many of you that are lucky enough to know mcrae know that he is a very knowledgeable fisherman. Wise beyond his years. He is a great person and a great citizen and will answer any question you ask him. Well he isn't a P&S member anymore and it has me real ticked off! Many months ago a member came onto this board and wrote some stupid fu#$^ing comments. I don't care what color or race you are if you have some stupid racist or bigot comments you better KEEP THEM TO YOUR SELF! That [email protected]# don't belong here! If I was a moderator or webmaster you would be adios amigos faster than you can say "What the...." I hope the moderators and webmaster read this and see how serious this offends people when they say that type of stuff. That bullsh*t chased away a very respectable member of this board. Webmaster he told me "he was upset that you never chimmed in and shut that persons mouth when you had a chance" I know most of us jumped in and let him know he was wrong but he thought there should of been something done about it. And he said he will never again visit this site because of it. Its a damn shame! Funny thing is Mcrae fished with that guy before and didn't have any problems. I am telling you I won't tolerate it and if it happens again, I hope there will be consequences this time. Also another highly respectable member was chased away by some comments about him offering fishing on his boat. I know this was over a year ago and is water under the bridge but it still irks me. This board gives no one a right to chastisize anyone. I don't think any respectable member on this board is trying to screw other fisherman over and take their money. Just like moma used to say "If you ain't got nothing good to say DON'T SAY IT" Last thing. I promise. If a new member comes on to the board and asks the same old question asked last week don't respond check search engine ONLY! And especially don't criticize em. A lot of people read prior posts and still ask questions. I believe if you just give em an answer they feel more welcome because you are talking specifically to them. Not just as a computer screen. Remember we are pretty good family here with a lot of knowledgeable fisherman. Lets act like it! Again sorry if I offended anyone on my tyrade but i couldn't hold it in anymore. It had to be said.... If decent members keep getting chased away by stupid peoples comments, then I will surely follow. (steps off the soapbox, hopefully for good!)


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## cutbait-king (Mar 22, 2002)

Hi Flfisherman ,
Thanks for the update on Mcrae and the heartfelt views on this matter. It has been a long time since I last posted.
I too posted replies months ago to that moron's post. It kind of soured my opinion on this site also. I still enjoy reading all of you fellow fishermen's posts. Well that clears the mystery up in regards to a good fishing buddy. Hope to see you guys out there soon. I have been too busy working on the Woodrow Wilson Bridge project to do any real fishing lately. Funny thing though I still take out my gear every friday like I am going out. I will be hitting the beaches this weekend though starting with 3-r's ,Ir then henlopen maybe slaughter's. Well I hope I am not too rusty.
 N. Laz
[URL=www.picturetrail.com/frontiersurf]www.picturetrail.com/frontiersurf


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## Ralph (Aug 1, 2002)

*i got your back*

fl-man, it needed to be said; and it could not have been said any better. i got your back! 

ralph


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## Hat80 (Sep 22, 2002)

*IMHO,*

Members that make such posts should have their names posted on a board of shame for all to see! That would shut them up. Thats two good members we've lost due to ignorant coments!...Tightlines


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## cocoflea (Aug 1, 2002)

Thank you FL Fisherman
I have found that race,creed, of color was never an issue with fishermen and women just the love of the sport and I'm sure that 99.9999% of the people who use this site is in totally on you side once again Thank you!


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

I asked him why he was leaving several months ago and he wouldn't tell me. He just told me that it was for "personal reasons."

_I hope the moderators and webmaster read this and see how serious this offends people when they say that type of stuff. That bullsh*t chased away a very respectable member of this board. Webmaster he told me "he was upset that you never chimmed in and shut that persons mouth when you had a chance" _ 

As for that, I do boot people when they get out of line, but you have to realize that I don't read every post on the entire site. Furthermore, every time I ban someone I get called a nazi, so there's a fine line between cleaning up crap on here and just letting foolish people make fools of themselves. Why didn't someone point the post out to me?

I like Mcrae. He's a good guy, and I've fished with him several times at Sandy Pt. He is *the* authority on what's going on down there.

I'm sorry for those who were offended, but perhaps your anger would be better directed at the person who made the comments. In the mean time, I will do everything I can to make this a decent community for all anglers.


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## TunaFish (Aug 16, 2001)

FL,

We'll said. I could'nt agree more. One of the things I've noticed is that members of P&S are so diversed and there's no reason to get into the color thing. Folks who have problems with that is really on the wrong forum. The majority of us really look out for one another. I know, cause MCrae really bailed me out once and I won't forget it.


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## FL FISHERMAN (Sep 30, 2002)

*Hey Sandflea*

Hey sandflea wasn't bagging on you man. I mean there wasn't much more you could do if you didn't get to read that guys post. I know you usually always take care of that stuff and I feel you on the fine line on being the webmaster. The way you got it setup now is great. Little icon on bottom that says notify moderator. You can be sure i will use it if that stuff keeps happening. I was just letting you know the exact words that came out of mcrae's mouth thats all. Again don't mean to offend anyone, not even the guilty ones. Just letting em know the deal now.


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## Topsailbum (Apr 10, 2003)

the ingnorance of one or two affect many.......... red yellow green or purple...we share a common bond here and stuff like that should never happen


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## ukpk (Aug 7, 2003)

When I was born I was pink
When I'm in the sun to long, I'm red
When I'm cold I go blue,
When I'm sick I go white,
When I die I will be grey,
You see, my brothers and sisters we are all coloured.
The world is to small for narrow minded people.

The mouths of fools are their ruin, and their lips a snare to themselves. Proverbs.


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## Beachbms (Jan 10, 2003)

I too am with you Fl fisherman, Had I seen the post I would have reported it for sure. I agree with all the above there is no need to tolerate that type of nonsence.....PERIOD!


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## firedog (Apr 27, 2003)

I couldn't agree with ya more FL Fisherman on your post, and also I have never met Sandflea but I can say I have read several posts were he tells someone they are no longer welcome and removes them from the user list due to insults or rudeness, Good job sandflea, I think some of us need to think before we type, we are suppose to be here to help others and all become better fisherman. I have never been insulted on this site, and have not insulted anyone, I truely enjoy this web and look at it atleast 4 or 5 times a day. Just figured I would give you guys my thoughts. Tight lines


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## inawe (May 24, 2003)

this aint a site for B-S this is a very knowledgeable site for those who want to find out ways of fishn one thing for sure if ya dont know alss ya gotta do is ask i usually over look CHILDS PLAY someone pm/ed one time and said write that person back and tellm whats up and i wrote him back and said why stoop to a lower level i am who i am so he wrote back to him [ childs play ] it dont work for me my 2 cnts


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## FL FISHERMAN (Sep 30, 2002)

Yeah no bagging on Sand Flea or any moderator just lettin em know whats the deal. This site is the greatest and just want to keep it that way. Tight lines!


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## Kozlow (Oct 25, 2002)

*I may have found Him*

Hey FL FISHERMAN 

We'll said. I could'nt agree more.

I may have found him??????

Posted on another board
Mcrea Fri Aug-15-03 10:22 AM 
Member since Jul 01st 2003 
2 posts 

#2354, "Melbourne."


I will be in the West Palm Bay area this weekend until Tuesday. Can anyone recommend some good fishing areas around the Melbourne Beach area, mabye the causeway? I am coming from VA.
Thanks.


Gender male 
City Springfield 
State VA 
Country U.S.A. 
Hobby Fishing, sports. 


My Response

Just wanted to know if your the guy there talking about on the P&S Board, Don't know the whole story but screw the A$$holes come on back to board. FL Fisherman Speaks highly of you and good knowledge is hard to come by.
I live in Indialantic By The Sea . Which is on the barrier Island across from Melbourne. Don't know when your coming down here but the surf temps suck right now. The water is just to cold . The Indian River has been producing some trout and reds .I know of 2 Piers you can try your luck at . The 1st is the Indialantic Pier which is on your left after you come across the 192 causeway from the mainland.
The water at this pier is shallow about 4 to 5 ft . The other Pier is the Melboune Bch Pier on Ocean Ave. Come across the 192 Causeway to the 2nd light at A1A and make a right . Go to the next lght make right
on Ocean Ave. The pier is on the left just as the road bears right.
This Pier has some deeper water at the end of the pier. 

This is bad info on the site
Fees:
$3.00 per person, $1.50 per child 
Yes and no Blue marlin HAHAHA
http://www.dto.com/swfishing/plan/location.jsp?waterid=2325&stateid=12

Well hope it helps you out and come on back to P&S
If your not the guy that FL Fisherman Speaks of then I guess you have no idea what the hell I talking about.

Take Care and Good Luck
Kozlow
Florida P&S Moderator


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## rocknwine (May 17, 2003)

If I knew Mcrae I would try my hardest to get him to come back to this great board.

I must say though that I am a little confused why someone would quit a board because one misguided individual (hows that for politically correct?) had a difference of opinion. Yes the guy was a real jerk but that's no reason to quit the whole site. Remember that he kept responding because we responded to him. 

Sandflea's role, as he said above, is not to monitor every thread. It is our job to notify him, as I have done in the past, when someone steps over the line.

Finally I hope I haven't offended anyone with my opinions. I really respect FLfisherman and like reading his posts including all the above.

That's my 2cents time to get back to fishing.


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## FL FISHERMAN (Sep 30, 2002)

Yeah Kozlow that is probably him. He said he was on the Florida fishing web site because he is going down there on vacation. Let me know if he replies. Thanks rocknwine!


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## Topsailbum (Apr 10, 2003)

*HEY GUYS!*

if i ever have offended or offend anyone in the future please please tell me. i am in no way perfect. i dont think i have offended anyone. if i have accept my sincere apologies. i feel privledged to be associated here.

Terry


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Been on quite a few fishin boards,Cdog recomended this one.. I tryed it and I like it.. I must not get around this board enough though,cause I haven't seen *one offensive post yet!!* .. This is common place on many boards,but so far,on this one I haven't seen it.. From what I have seen most folks on here just want to talk fishn,and so do I!!


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## PlankCaster (Oct 22, 2001)

Hey guys,
I guess every once in awhile on any board you get some little troll intent on being a jerk. We just cant let them get the best of us. This is a good group of guys on this board, helped me out a lot and I try to return the favor when possible. Lets just keep a cool head about us and when we get someone who wants to cause trouble let sand flea take care of it. As far as that goes, I just want to give flea a big hearty THANK YOU for the great job you do with these boards. Major props on all the hard work and it is very much appreciated. 
Tight lines and popped riggers


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## Kenmefish (Apr 21, 2000)

Ditto to what he said! (PLANKCASTER)


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## soapfish (Aug 15, 2001)

Me too PlankCaster. Thanks Flea!

Soapfish


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## BigJeff823 (Oct 14, 2002)

I hope we dont run in to more ignorant jerks in the future.If I meet that one guy who had those racist coments I would punch his lights out.


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## skunked (Jun 4, 2001)

Ya know... I am not sure..but I don't THINK fish can see what color/race/sex the fisherman is. If THEY don't care why should we. HOWEVER I am CERTAIN we can all see an as.h..e and now it for what it is.


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## MarkDido (Jul 6, 2003)

Hey Skunked...

Not only can the fish not see what sex, race I am....

They pretty much just ignore me completely!


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## BigJeff823 (Oct 14, 2002)

If I was a board moderator I would ban that one guy right away or aleast spoke about it more on the thread.Sand Flea your a good man I hope to see you and when I do I hope to give you $100.Fl Fishermen has a good point.In Deleware theres racial conflicts with asians;as fishermen we do get frustrated but don't take it out on other grups of people just because one guy of diffrent origin or race is being inconciderate.I'm getting sick and tired of people being bigots.Stop bliaming foreiners for problems like trash at Sandy Point or The Asian Guys at IRI.Its 2003 lets try to be more open minded.


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## BigJeff823 (Oct 14, 2002)

*Enough already*


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## shaggy (Jun 18, 2003)

Hey, I "vented" once and Hat 80, stated okay, you feel better now that it's out of your system. Only difference I guess (since I'm not familiar with the entirety), I vented to all who probably knew who they were, not based on anything but talkin' the talk, walkin' the walk.


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## BigJeff823 (Oct 14, 2002)

I wanted to vent ever sence people started talking bad about asians at IRI.


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## jcreamer (Mar 6, 2001)

You know when I was in Vietnam I saw that it did not matter what race, religion, or color of your skin you all bleed the same color and wear the same military clothes so that b.s. does not need to exist.
I agree with everyone that it does not belong.
I have been on p & s for awhile and have not noticed many derogatory (spelling) remarks.


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## FL FISHERMAN (Sep 30, 2002)

I am not saying it happens often here. It doesn't. But it did! And we lost a member (only one that we know of) due to it. Just like as fisherman we need to police ourselves up out on the water, we need to police ourselves up on the site. I know there are families and children that visit this site often. Lets keep those comments away from here. Thanks for everybodys input on this subject.


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## Thoroughbred (Aug 1, 2001)

I am late and don't want to act like I am piling on but Mcrea is a GREAT GUY! He is the first one I met on this board and have been lucky enough to fish beside him on 5-6 occasions. I haven't been around much because I .....welllllll.......IIIIIIIII.....bought a boat. There I said it. Not a big one but a nice runabout. Haven't been to Sandy point this year because we run the Potomac a lot. 

If anyone sees Mcrea please tell him I said hi and that I owe him a trip or two on the boat.

Dave from WV


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

So we've been talking about this thread for awhile...does anyone actually want to point me to the thread in question?


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## FL FISHERMAN (Sep 30, 2002)

See what I mean! Anyone that has met Mcrae know he wouldn't hurt a fly and is a good person. Congrats on the boat thoroughbred! I plan on seeing him this fall at spsp and will let him know what you said. Sandflea I will pm you with the persons name that started this. Coming at you in three seconds


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

*I may live to regret this*

Thanks for the clue FL FISHERMAN. Just found the thread. I think Rugger said it best when he said 


> Hey Jeff... one word....
> 
> DECAF.


So let's open this can of worms all the way. I think the gentleman in question went completely overboard. To say that all people who weren't born here are wrecking our waters is a load of crap. On the other hand, I have noticed that there are lots of folks around (of multiple races) who can't speak English and who are pretty brazen about violating fisheries rules.

This weekend I was in Annapolis and came across two separate groups of crabbers over the Severn. They were of two entirely different races (so this is not a racial thing) but when I told both groups they couldn't keep their bucketfuls of 3" crabs, they both waved their hands and said, "No English! No English!"

Just by coincidence, there was a DNR agent walking around the marina. I grabbed her and told her to check out the folks across the road. When I was pulling away, the ranger had been by but the individuals were back and dipping crabs out of the water. Even if a ticket was written, how could illegals be tracked if they refused to pay the ticket?

So since this can of worms has been opened, let's have an honest discussion about this whole thing and hope this thread doesn't turn into a train wreck.

Two ground rules, though: 1) no political correctness. Let's be honest about what we've seen...on the other side.... 2) no BS generalizations about how you don't like certain races or any badmouthing of *LEGAL* immigrants. The illegals, however, seem to not give a rat's rear about our fisheries laws.


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## BigJeff823 (Oct 14, 2002)

That sounds like what the people say about the Asian guys at IRI.Jeffster would fit in better with the Cafe Locale crowd;those guys take things too personally and are somwhat bigoted.I hope I'm not causing a Board vs Board conflict when I say all this.


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## FL FISHERMAN (Sep 30, 2002)

Yeah I know this happens a lot. And a lot of them fall back on the "No english" motto. I think we need to just police them up along with all the other people doing dumb stuff. I know people don't like being Narcs but if you see someone doing wrong and tell them about it and they blatantly ignore you then a call to DNR is in order. Remember folks these are the people(generalizing all people that break the laws, not just immigrants) that will do us fisherman the worst. Towns and cities tend to oversee the legal abiding fisherman when incidents happen with fisherman breaking the law. That is how we lose fishing piers and shore spots, and on top of it our right to fish in other areas. And yes as much as I like Mcrae I too think he overreacted to the incident but that is just how some people handle confrontations. Hopefully it won't happen anymore.


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## FL FISHERMAN (Sep 30, 2002)

As you can see he was attacking me for when I said I was gonna go to the choptank with 15 poles in hand so I could get into some fish. In fact a lot of people attacked me. I am not as soft skinned though and took it in stride. As anyone who knows me I always bring a butload of poles with me.(better to be overpacked than under packed) Doesn't mean I use em all at one time though. I was really just messing around because I had the fish fever and was really trying to get into some fish. I usually use 3 or 4 poles at most for myself and you can easily use more if you fish the choptank pier. Also that is only the end of that stuff. If you go back to Sandcrabs spsp cleanup you will see where it started. No need for that stuff here I have met many a P&S er from all walks of life and I think we are a pretty tight family. Lets keep it that way!


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## BigJeff823 (Oct 14, 2002)

Well if anyone has more to say about it see the thread IRI and Racial issues Anywhere.See the Cafe Locale on Fruitfull Trip to IRI(I think)and the thread mentioned above and thats where all my issues about the subject started.Don't be afraid to express yourself.


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## HuskyMD (May 19, 2000)

*forgive and let live*

I regret that this board has lost some good members. I can't condone the comments some have made. However, if there is one thing I have learned in life and would hope others realize (as a [email protected] who probably often offends people unintentionally), it is that we must be quick to forgive others of their trespasses. Otherwise, we will harbor anger and resentment that only make things worse. Hate to see McCrea go. Never actually got to fish with him. But this is a call out to him to come back to the fold.


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

I have to agree with Mccrea. I have noticed a definite increase
in posts with comments which label people by their race/nationality (only when they are doing something wrong
or believed to be doing something wrong) How many times have
you read "There were three white guys....." or "this italian guy..."
it just does not happen. Is this because these groups never 
break any rules? No. When we do report on these groups we
just say I saw "some guys". If you go back through the 
posts which include comments about race/nationality, you will
notice that hardly any board members will comment on it
and when they do, they usually get jumped on. That is 
just my personal experience.


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## Manayunk Jake (Oct 3, 2001)

Greetings All!

Looks like most of this got started when I was away from the board, and I admit I'm wading in late. But we also had a thread like this before where someone mentioned Asians. I think they were surprised to find out how many Asians are members.

I've been fishing a long time, and I can safely say that I've seen members of just about every race and ethnic group (haven't had the opportunity to fish with Inuits or Aborigines), and I've seen EVERYONE break the law now and then, including me. I've seen plenty of short fluke kept, short tog kept, and short sea bass kept. I've seen a few short stripers kept. I've seen people go way over the limit on wreck species. I know of a party boat captain that was heavily involved in the illegal blackfish trade. Yup, they were White, Caucasian, whatever...

I've seen Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians disregard size and creel limits. Many were fishing in large family groups -- a form of substinance fishing. Sometimes the undersized fish were cooked and eaten on the spot. Does this make them less guilty?

And I've seen people who new enough English to ask if they can borrow a hook, or whether I would give them the undersize fish I was throwing back, revert to Spanish, Pakistani, or Thai when Law Enforcement Personnel showed up. Were they afraid of being caught, or did they feel they were being targeted....

When you introduce the concept of species, size, and creel limitations into a multicultural country like the United States, there is going to be confusion, resentment, and both unintentional and blatant noncompliance. It took a long time for regulations to be accepted for freshwater fishing. Regulating the ocean and bays may take a lot longer. My answer is to educate by example, and notify the proper enforcement agency when necessary.


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## cocoflea (Aug 1, 2002)

And to piggy back on what Jake is saying education by example is the first step I've found the 80% of the people no matter who they are will listen if you tell them that they are doing something wrong the enforcment will stop about 15% and the last 5% just don't care. There is a old saying "one bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch" the problem is some of us let that bad apple spoil us.


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## Coolerpup (Aug 30, 2003)

Ive been known to be quite opinionated so here it goes.

I dont know mcrea or any of the parties involved but I feel Mcrea shouldnt have let this drive him away. To let one person or a few chase him away from something he enjoyed ( Pier&Surf) is foolish. I know cause I let it happen to me a year or so ago at Cafe Locale. I really enjoyed posting there and I knew quite a few of the guys, but the moderator and I didnt (still dont) see eye to eye on alot of issues. But I went back and things have been great. ONe time did come up and I almost let him chase me away again but I had so many folks email me saying I did nothing wrong and if he wanted me gone then let him pull the switch. Im still there as of this day. Mcrea should come back and return to what HE enjoyed.
Happypappy......Youve probably seen my name at the Cafe Locale. I didnt involve myself in the IRI Asain thread, but I know what those guys are talking about. If what a person says is true about a certain race, does that make it a racist remark?? Just a question  
My dad used to take me fishin at IRI in the 70's. I began to fish it again this year after many years of being a one diminsional fisherman (surf). I see the problems IRI is having today, and if a person doesnt see it, then they need to remove their blinders. 



AllenC


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

Coolerpup, 

That is fine if you label the race of everybody that you see doing
something wrong. But for some reason its 99% asians who get
mentioned by race. The Cafe Local Board is a great example, how many times have you read how they can't stand how asians hold their rod with the reel up. Just what exactly is wrong with that? why does it bother them so much? It is just another excuse to spout off.


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## Coolerpup (Aug 30, 2003)

Talapia....I believe I stated I stayed out of that thread...didnt I??? I dont put every person from one race in the same catagory. Please dont label me that way. 
Ive seen what goes on at IRI so I can see why some folks might label Asians. After a while you grow tired of watching the same antics day in and day out.
The reel right side up trick.....Ive caught lotsa fish that way 
Actually I find myself defending what most would call a "Googan".


AllenC


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## Manayunk Jake (Oct 3, 2001)

Greetings Talapia!

It took me a while to break my buddy Ed out of that habit, and he's Polish (don't think we want to go there!) Anyways, turned out he always used spincast and casting gear, and was just used to reeling that way. Switched his spinning reels over to lefty mode, and now he looks like a "proper" fisherman!

My take on the whole situation is that the "locals" feel they are being crowded out by the "newcomers." Its easier to label people and ridicule them then to address the issues. Hell, if being here first gives you the right to stake out territory and create rules, then just about everybody needs to step back and let the Native Americans decide who fishes where, and how! (They only get to do that on the reservations, which probably total less than 1% of their original land.)

Teach by example... Hey, there's probably a lot of "Caucasians" who would starve to death in China, throwing carp on the bank while waiting for something "edible" to bite! And I'd bet the "locals" would be scratching their heads, complaining about the waste!


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## Dick (Jun 6, 2003)

Happypappy, you complain about people labeling an ethnic group, but your posting here labeling an entire fishing bored bigots.


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## shaggy (Jun 18, 2003)

Okay, I'm probably screwing myself, but certain persons, from certain areas (and by that I mean areas aroud DC, Northern Virginia), come to the Mat and Romancoke, and keep just about anything they catch. I've seen 12" and smaller stripers caught, and taken right to the trunk of a car and placed in a cooler, so they know they are keeping a fish too small.

Ethnicisity (?) aside, we all live by, or are suppose to live by the laws. I personally keep two stripers max in the Freezer (only one there now), and have released sripers in the 32" - 36" range, because if it is just going to sit and get freezer burn, it's a waste to me and to the fish that gave me the fight while catching. That said, some (though not all) may not have the finacial resources to "buy" their food, and many in the Asian, African and those from the southern parts of the USA rely on the resources of "Mother Nature" to provide the food, that is their culture. 

Again, that said, keeping an undersized fish, is illegal, and here I go, damn I'm cooked, I do find most people of Mexican heritage will listen (even though they may not understand totally) when you tell them they can't keep the fish they caught because it is too small, and knowing the Asians a little (a good friend of mine is married to a Tai (?) lady so I'm not making a totally racial comment nor nailing all Asians), but the ones I have seen do not respect the fishing regulations of Maryland.

Once again, that said, I have seem caucasion Americans in total disregard, and saying "I won't get caught", or "the DNR never shows up here". Problem is when (politically incorrect) American citizens get caught they must pay the fine, but legal aliens or those with student visas, and illegal immigrants, don't have to face the American justice system, because they simply cannot be located. 

Nail me if you must, and I do understand the difference between fishing and finding food, but apparently there is a fine line, problem is, I don't feel I should have to see it.

There is a fine line, and maybe I crossed it, and don't mean to offend any, though I probably did, and for that I apologize. Now, I am loading up the Jeep and heading to AI.

If I offended, PM me with your comments, and I will be happy to resond to you personally, and post my response in this thread,

Race has little to do with the scheme of things, but obey the laws.


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## Smoothbore54 (Jun 8, 2003)

*I keep waiting for this thread to die* 

But it apparently has more lives than a Hindu house cat.

It seems to me that the meaning of the original post, was very quickly lost. 

In a flurry of comcern over the possability, that an observation about the *unacceptable behavior,* of some fishermen. 

Who were described as being of a particular ethnic extraction.

Might not pass muster with the "PC Police."

*I understood the original * post, to be a comentary on the 
* arrogant, discourteous and illegal behavior* of those individuals.

This didn't strike me as being a sweeping condemnation of that ethnic group.

It was an eye witness report of actual events, that *did occur.* 

I don't call those kind of statements prejudice.

*I call them FACTS.* 

Anyone who takes exception to, or is offended by, the free and open exchange of factual information.

*Is living in the wrong country.*


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## FL FISHERMAN (Sep 30, 2002)

Good words there Smoothebore! I think the arguments that have popped up on this thread can be neverending. You can never please everybody. It is all in the eyes of the reader. Someone misread my statement in the md board and layed into me like I was ignorant. I thought my statement was pretty broad on all levels but he took one segment of it and ran with it. Like I said all in the eyes of the reader. I fired back b/c I don't want to be seen as a hypocrite which I am not. You think you write it one way with a meaning to it but someone elsereads it and takes a different meaning to it. You NEVER can please everyone. So the moral to my babble is it doesn't belong here. Everyone has an opinion on it, just like a$$holes, remember. Well I think they should be not put on the site because it causes too much rift. It will never solve the real issue. We just need to police up all the races and make our areas better places to fish. And just so it is heard NO I am not checking for anybodys green card and NO I don't work for the INS.


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## Manayunk Jake (Oct 3, 2001)

> So let's open this can of worms all the way.


Greetings Smoothbore54!

Let's keep that black powder dry! The thread changed nature when sand flea invited a free exchange of ideas. Referring back to my original post, there certainly ARE times when law enforcement is called for. And in sand flea's example, the agent either could not or would not put an end to the illegal activity.

If people are in this country illegally, then that is certainly a law enforcement issue. If people are involved in repeated illegal activity in a known location, then that is an enforcement issue. If law enforcement personnel can not or will not enforce the laws, then that is an administrative issue. In each instance, there is recourse. If enough information is passed on to the correct agency, there should be a visible response. If not, call local government officials and ask why.

In sand flea's example, he took the first step, but felt frustrated when there was no visible response. The next step would be to contact the proper agency and see if the incident was reported, and if action was taken. All civil servants answer to somebody. If you're not happy with the response, report it to the local elected official with jurisdiction.

Although there is not always a law enforcement officer present, all states have "poacher" hotlines. If enough calls are made, the agency should begin checking into the situation.

The question isn't whether naming a particular group is politically correct, or if one race or ethnic group is more prone to illegal activity. The question is how do we (as fishermen) respond. Facts are facts; Its generalizations and stereotyping that are dangerous. I'm sure there's somebody out there right now wondering what the hell has this Mc been drinking, or would blame my anal pontificating on my German ancestry. Truth is, I'm just a student of human nature. And that's what the REAL issue is here....


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

Hey why can't we just love one another and just fish?

"Follow me and I will make thee fisher's of men"-Jesus,The Bible
Enough said.


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## BigJeff823 (Oct 14, 2002)

I'm sorry if I labled a fishing board bigots ;yes I know theres some forieners not all forieners who play stupid,break the law and try your patience.But I don't lke racism;Even if I get theatened in in a Black neiborhood because im White(polish);I still think with an open mind.I wan't this thread to die:barf: .Were all diffrent but lets not let that lead to frustration with other types of people.


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## Manayunk Jake (Oct 3, 2001)

Greetings Nserch4Drum!

If only it were that simple! I don't think Jesus would last twenty minutes in today's world, let alone 33 years! But I think he had something in that Golden Rule: Do unto others....

Besides, I only recollect Jesus going fishing once, and he loaded the boat so full it almost sank! Wonder what the creel limits were back then?


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## FL FISHERMAN (Sep 30, 2002)

See and that just proves my point even more. I know what you meant when you said that statement about those people that made those statements on that site. But someone took it different and saw it that you were labeling everyone on that site as bigots. It is just too vague of a subject to discuss here without someone being offended. I think everyone has a good point in this thread but I am not trying to offend anybody and lose some friends and maybe future friends so I think I am not going to discuss my opinions on this subject here anymore. Because like sandflea stated, "and hope this thread doesn't turn into a train wreck" , it hasn't yet but definitely has the possiblity to do that if everyone puts their 2 cents in. Too many people are gonna walk away from this subject offended by other peoples opinions. This is America but sometimes opinions need to be kept to themselves.


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## shaggy (Jun 18, 2003)

Ahh, but biblical of nature or not, give a man a fish you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime. 

Last note from shaggy on this thread.

GBAK


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## BigJeff823 (Oct 14, 2002)

We all have to get a life .Lets keep the crap to ourselves and fish more .


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## Dick (Jun 6, 2003)

HaPPyPapPy832443 said:


> *We all have to get a life*


My point exactly!


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## neuman (Oct 30, 2002)

*YOUR KIDDING ME RIGHT*

pappy i said it before and i will say it again open you eyes and smell the roses buddy. i cant believe your talking smack about a nother forum and to be honest i cant belive you not down there sharing you rock with your ah how did you put it COOL guys. people on cafe were not being rasist on that thread they (i) were stating a fact that needs adressing and you come on talking s#it about how nice these guys are and how racist were being we were simply stating what happens down there every day when your sitting on a rock and 20 people come down the rocks and set up shop in front of you and keep every god damn tog they catch and have a runner sneaking every god damn tog they catch please PAL SHUT UP AND OPEN YOUR EYESjust because we see a problem and adress it as one does not make us me or you a racist you really need to fish there more and look at what everyone is was and will be bitching about until something is done about basically mugging someone out of his spot with total disregard for you or the regs !!!ZOOM:barf: :barf:


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

*neuman:*

EEk! That is laying some smack down.Discrimination or is it total disobediences of ordinances?I have no pity on petty poachers,but immigrants should also be told of size and catch limits in there area.


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## neuman (Oct 30, 2002)

*sorry*

sorry for the profanity guys gals and whatever else is correct i got a little carried away with pappy .me and him went a round or two on this silly topic before  on said bigot laden forum!!again sorry for the profanity!!ZOOM


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

Is Cafe Locale a local internet forum?


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## Thoroughbred (Aug 1, 2001)

They are mostly Delaware locals.

http://www.cafelocale.com 

go to fishing board

better yet here is the direct link:

http://www.cafelocale.com/fishing.html


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

I think what makes people so angry about this is when people are brazen about violating the rules _and_ get away with it, not when someone accidentally does something and they're corrected.

Reminds me of a story that Hoyt, the owner of the Lynnhaven Pier, told me last weekend when I was in Va. Beach.

He said there was this clown out there last fall who was loading up on a bucketful of illegal puppy drum. When people told him it was illegal, he told them where they could go.

One lady got mad and went to the booth to phone the guy in. When the enforcement official got there, he merely gave him one $35 ticket for a single one of the fish. Guess the officer was feeling generous.

A few days later, the same moron shows up again and starts doing the same thing. The same lady gets ticked and says, "You don't want to get another ticket, do you?"

He responds, "That stupid a-hole just gave me a single ticket for a bucketful," laughed about it and kept fishing.

She called him in again, and this time the enforcement officer was told what the guy had said.

The jerk's car was impounded, his rods were seized, and he was eventually fined thousands of dollars. After the judge slammed down his gavel in court, he looked the guy in the eye and said, "Who's the a-hole now?"

There's something galling about someone like that, whether it's thinking they can get away with poaching dozens of fish or running the things back to their car. In both cases, they know what they're doing is wrong. But it's even more infuriating when the person hides their catch (proving that they know what they're doing is wrong) and then tells the cop they don't speak English. Not only are they brazenly disobeying the law, but the law never has a chance to make them pay the consequences, look them in the eye and say, "Who's the a-hole now?"


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## BigJeff823 (Oct 14, 2002)

Neuman;trust me I fish IRI as mutch as anyone else and I've seen some not all of the white bucket guys leave behind thier trash and try to force me out of the spot I want to fish.I don't care about anybody else I fish their spot and ignore the white bucket guys.Some of those guys try to be nice sometimes.But try to have a open mind as well as eyes.My friend you need to get a life .


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## BigJeff823 (Oct 14, 2002)

If you see anyone polluting and disobeying rules just report them to the DNR and leave it as that.If someone want to crowd you in ethier fish the spot or move.Stop crying like a female dog and deal with it.get a life


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## Ralph (Aug 1, 2002)

*food for thought*

"One America" 
"The greatest challenge we face is also our greatest opportunity. Can we fulfill the promise of America by embracing all our citizens of all races? Can we become one America in the 21st century? Money cannot buy this goal, power cannot compel it, technology cannot create it. This is something that can come only from the human spirit." [President Bill Clinton, 1997] 

ralph


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## Ralph (Aug 1, 2002)

*because i can't say it better...*

"There are complexities in every racial situation. Never are such matters neat and simple. They can't be. For they reach deep into history, memory, beliefs, values -- or into the hollow place where values should be." [Lillian Smith, 1949

ralph


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## Ralph (Aug 1, 2002)

*last one...*

Avoid fried meats which angry up the blood. If your stomach disputes you, lie down and pacify it with cool thoughts. Keep the juices flowing by jangling around gently as you move. Go very light on the vices, such as carrying on in society. The social ramble ain't restful. Avoid running at all times. Don't look back. Something might be gaining on you. 


Satchel Paige (1906?-1982) 
"How to Stay Young" (1953)


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## FL FISHERMAN (Sep 30, 2002)

Great advice from Mr. "I didn't inhale or tell a lie"


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## BigJeff823 (Oct 14, 2002)

We all have lay off the Caffine;fried foods use sparingly.We need decafe. Caffine makes people angry and too high strung.I'm sorry If Fl fisherman and or Me opened up this can of worms;but I get tired of bigotry in America When I see people I can care less about skin color or nationality I see the attitudes that people present threw facial expressions,how they talk,etc.The way people act to you is a reflection of your attitude I remember Doverpower saying this and I defently agre on this.


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## cocoflea (Aug 1, 2002)

I agree let's just fish the fall is here and the fish are starting to bite.


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## Anthony (Jul 3, 2002)

Yeah this kind of stuff really does suck. But the problem is that this is probably gonna keep happening for a long time. I wish that there was something that we could do but some people are just to ignorant to help. I myself have gotten several comments that I could do without. I have even had one person tell me that I had to throw back an undersized rockfish just after I caught it. I told him that I know the regulations for rockfish, and he told me that your people tends not to listen well. Of course I was offended but I just bit my lip and went back to fishing. Some people are just a-holes who are looking to cause trouble. Anyway just my two cents.
-Anthony


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## Ralph (Aug 1, 2002)

*cigar...*

fl-man, you smoke one cigar of questionable origin and you are labelled for life.  


sir backcaster


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

neuman's thread is exactly the kind of 
post that Sand Flea should come in and 
lock or delete. There is no call to take
god's name in vain or tell anyone to
"SHUT UP". We should all respect each other
on this board and comments like that just
should not be tolerated. PERIOD. 
I have really enjoyed this discussion and
believe that it is very healthy as long as
everyone respects one another.


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## Topsailbum (Apr 10, 2003)

bottom line from me is this:
I have only positive experiences with the board family. people talk about immigrants. look far enough back in you fsmily tree, we are all immigrants. ever race, ever culture. every society has their share of mutts. when you see em report em is all you can do.i'm the type that if your nice to me, i'll be nice to you. i dont care what color or nationality a person is.


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## BigJeff823 (Oct 14, 2002)

I'm tried of talking about this crap;people need to stop whining and get a life.Its not an Asian guys fault why these people cant catch fish and enjoy themseves.There nothing more than a bunch of non-fisherman who blame others for thier problems.If these same people fished at North Beach they would get beat up like they deserve to be. :barf:


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## Kozlow (Oct 25, 2002)

Yea what Topsailbum said.


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## Coolerpup (Aug 30, 2003)

HappyPappy....youve got alot of mouth.

You sir are one of the reasons alot of folks feel they can push and shove their way into any fishing spot, regardless of who is fishing there. No one said you had to get mad at the person and push them in. A simple "eh-um, scuse me, I really dont appreciate you stepping in front of me, so please move. 
All confrontations do not have to be fueled by anger and turn into a slugfest. There are ways to get your point across. So while your moving , giving in to the BS, theyll keep doing it.
Funny, each time someone brings up their concern over an issue, no matter what that issue is, you call it whining etc. To me sir, that means you disrespect the so called whiner as well, and you need to get a life as well. If you cannot carry on a conversation, without insulting another person, or group (cafe locale) then I have no use for your type. Good day,

AllenC


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## BigJeff823 (Oct 14, 2002)

I'm sorry but I'm used to people crowding me in a tangling my line this happens alot.I didn't mean to call anyone winers but if they're poaching;do somthing about it and report them in.I take no guff from anyone but I never complain;I handle my bussness.I get tired of people complaing about tangled lines;there is a simple way of handling problems without cursing about them.


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## BigJeff823 (Oct 14, 2002)

I didn't mean to call a board bigots or complainers whiners I see you guys points.I'm too quick to make judgements about things just like anyone else;I don't want to fight.I just wonder why can't people see things my way.What if you guys spoke Russian and you couln't speak a word of English and you wanted to live in this country(which you are already in)and fish too.Think about it.


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## dckhd247 (Sep 9, 2003)

HaPPyPapPy832443 said:


> *I just wonder why can't people see things my way.*



That pretty much sums it up...

If people don't think like you they're wrong huh???


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Alright, this has gone far enough. If anybody wants to discuss the topic of the thread, fine. But no more personal crap.

Keep private grudge matches private--take them to e-mail or private messaging.


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## neuman (Oct 30, 2002)

*CHUCKLEHEAD /*

AGAIN THE PROBLEM IS THE 20 PEOPLE IS THAT POLITICALLY CORRECT ENOUGH FOR YOU HAPPY THAT COME DOWN ON THE ROCKS THAT YOU CALL COOL AFTER YOU HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THE RIGHT TIME OF TIDE AND MUG YOU OUT OF YOUR SPOT AND ILL SAY IT AGAIN GO OUT AND FISH THERE A LITTLE MORE AND LOOSE VALUABLE FISHING TIME BECAUSE YOUR UNTANGLING YOUR COOL 20 IN THE GROUPS FISHING LINES THAT ALL HAVE SEEMINGLY JUST WANTED TO BE AROUND YOUR BUDDING AND HAPPY PERSONALITY I AM EXSTATIC THAT YOU HAVE FOUND THESE NEW BEST FRIENDS NOW TRY THIS PAL TELL ONE OF THESE GROUPS TO KINDLY AND I MEAN KINDLY GET THE BEEP OFF OF THE ROCK YOU WERE STANDING ON AND SEE WHAT YOU GET IN RETURN BETTER YET WHY DONT YOU JUST ASK IF YOU COULD DIG SOME FLEAS FOR THEM WHILE YOU WAIT FOR THEM TO FINISH RAPEING YOUR ROCK THAT YOU STOOD ON FOR 3 HOURS WAITING FOR THE TIDE IF ANYONE NEEDS TO GET A GRIP AND GET OUT AND OPEN THEIR EYES ITS CERTAINLY YOU MR HAPPY WHY NOT ITS TYPICAL PAPPY TO START SOMTHING AND RUN (WHY CANT ANYONE SEE IT MY WAY ) YOU KNOW WHY PAPPY SILLY, SILLY SILLY I MUST TAKE A PILL NOW THANK YOU!!!ZOOM !!!!FOR ALL THE EVERLOVING CHUCKLEHEADED/GOOGANITATED/FISHING WANT TO BEES THIS POST SHOULD BE FRAMED AND USED AS THE FISHERMANS GUIDE TO HOW TO LOOSE SPOTS TO IGNORANT PEOPLE THAT POACH FISH MUG PEOPLES SPOTS AND JUST ARE TO SILLY TO KNOW THE DIFFERANCE I THINK THAT ABOUT SUMS IT UP ANY THING ELSE SLAPPY!SONG IS OVER THE FAT LADY HAS SUNG AND ELVIS HAS LEFT THE BUILDING!!! ZOOM:


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## Hat80 (Sep 22, 2002)

*Hey Flea,*

It's time to lock this one down my friend....Tightlines


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## Topsailbum (Apr 10, 2003)

i agree with hat80


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## Anthony (Jul 3, 2002)

I agree with Hat. The fall is starting to heat up so let's just go fishing.
-Anthony


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Yup. This subject has been talked into the ground and it keeps getting personal. Let's get back to fishing.


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