# I'm miserable.



## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

I have an excuse to be miserable, I’ve been laid up for over two weeks with a back problem; I haven’t smelled the ocean for nearly a month. The tournaments have started up here in Jersey and I’ve been home. First tournaments I’ve missed in years. I wanted to publicize the P&S Jersey Board at the tourneys with a handout, get some new members, get the post count up there ya know . . got them handouts all printed up, ready to go.

I’m having second thoughts. 

I have resisted posting in many threads in P&S . . . If I do it’s within the first few and I don’t pipe back up unless someone responds directly to my post. It seems that someone asks a perfectly reasonable question and the thread descends into a _my-ways-the-only-way_ pissing match. Most times the thread starter just fades away as that board’s regulars berate a particular post. 

I am hesitant to recommend this board to a bunch of people (300+) who apparently, in the opinions of the P&S Southern Command’s “experts,” have their heads up their asses when it comes to surf fishing.

To be quite blunt, the level of arrogance and elitism coming from some members is disheartening. 

I realize that “the point” is a special place, I realize that Red Drum are _the_ most powerful fish that swims, yada yada yada. You guys need to realize that a whole surf fishing world exists beyond your 5 or 7 weeks that the big drum are on your beaches.

The recent “braid on a 525" thread in the Distance Casting Forum is a perfect example. Take a look at the guy’s boardname . . . .”chinookhead” there’s no location listed but my first thought is that he _might_ not be tossing a 8oz frogsmouth and a mullet tail wedge at Cape Hatteras.

Nobody asks what he’s doing, just the cookie-cutter Buxton answer. . . it’s a -- _bad idea_ -- cause – _at the point it cuts guys off _– and the obigitory– _come near me and I’ll cut your line_ – chesthumping.

OK, we get it . . . 

How bout putting up a sticky with the _*rules of the point*_; that way you guys don’t need to keep beating the rest of us over the head with them and we can just learn from each other. Just like the elitst rockhoppers of Montauk you guys do have a lot of interesting, locale specific knowledge to share, BUT understand that just because we’re not tangling with a 50" drum we aren’t numbskulls and we might do things different AND STILL CATCH FISH.

Flame away.


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

Rules of the Point:

1) Don't use braid on your heavers when fishing the Point. We'll know you're a Yankee. And we'll kick your a**.
2) When fishing the Point, use enough lead to hold bottom. If you don't, we'll know you're a Yankee, and we'll kick your a**.
3) When fishing the Point, don't throw lures where everyone is bait fishing. Or Yankee, it's your a**.
4) If you fish the Point at night, keep your headlights and lanterns turned off. Or we'll know you're a Yankee, and we'll kick your a**.
4) If you have back problems and are in a bad mood, don't post on P&S. Or we'll kick your a**.  

***I'm sure I forgot most of the Rules of the Point. Feel free to add to my list.


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## kinnakeettom (Sep 25, 2004)

Why fish the point period in the fall?? A no brainer, the north beach is where its at, and if I remember correctly Duel was not fishing the point, when he set the record, north beach means scouting, and the hunt, which is more fun than stadium parking at the point any day of the week.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

Newsjeff said:


> Rules of the Point:
> 
> We'll know you're a Yankee. And we'll kick your a**.
> we'll know you're a Yankee, and we'll kick your a**.
> ...




No bad mood here, just spent some time viewing this site as a lurker would. As a Yankee contemplating referring this site to a couple hundred other Yankees your thoughtful insight and warm disposition is greatly appreciated. I really feel my concerns have been addressed to the extent "Southern Hospitality" allows.

Thank you for your assistance in making my decision.


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

SGT_SLOUGH...don't take one as all...newsjeff either took it the wrong way or someone pi$$ed in his wheaties...i haved fished up north...its a little different but the people arn't...fishing is fishing...from here but spent 10(long) years in MI...no salt...go for 20 lb fish with 2lb test...my southern tactics worked like magic...tore up the walleye,salmon, smallies, pearch...locals said i was nuts...but i out fished most of them...turn your friends on to this site...i love it...i have learned alot and hopefully i have shared something someone can use...hope this helps


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

*well put....*

Sarge, 
However, I would go one step further. Now first of all I have never been to thr point or OBX. Over the years of working in the law enforcement community, fire service, fishing communities, hunting groups and generally life itself ......

[THERS IS NO SUCH THING AS AN EXPERT!!!!B] 


Yes, posters on this board such as yourself are very knowledgable about the areas they fish but we all know or should know that things change every day, season to season year to year. Nothing is ever the same every time. Instead of resorting to name calling and judgement placing and chest thumping as to who knows more about what, why not just take the information given and use it as best you can. It's not that hard to do. It's a damn shame that people here should have to hesitate in making posts because they are afraid that people are going to look down on them. Me I could care less what anyone thinks. I joined this group to talk to other guys like me...Avid fisherman who enjoy the sport of fishing weather it surf, boats, jetties or piers. I take in all of the information given and use it to better myself as a fisherman.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Sgt_Slough said:


> No bad mood here, just spent some time viewing this site as a lurker would. As a Yankee contemplating referring this site to a couple hundred other Yankees your thoughtful insight and warm disposition is greatly appreciated. I really feel my concerns have been addressed to the extent "Southern Hospitality" allows.
> 
> Thank you for your assistance in making my decision.


Dont pay any attention to Jeff, that was his attempt at humor I think? If ya ever meet him youll understand....


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*What*

What the heck is a mullet tail wedge? That sounds like something used in nascar. Don't take things so serious. Just because someone can outfish you is no reason to get pissed at them.


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

Newsjeff said:


> Rules of the Point:
> 
> 1) Don't use braid on your heavers when fishing the Point. We'll know you're a Yankee. And we'll kick your a**.
> 2) When fishing the Point, use enough lead to hold bottom. If you don't, we'll know you're a Yankee, and we'll kick your a**.
> ...



I smell a lotta sarcasim and wit in this post...I do not smell any SMack...

Jeff is good people...jus make sure ya got candy bars  ......

Sarge....no expert here....just like many of yall....got tackle...and jus wanna hook up...understand that fishin don't mean catchin...and all tha fish ain't down south....or up North
Some board members are vague...regarding honey holes...but some are helpful in leadin tha way...

Some are just a$$es...won't throw a bone...Loners...but hey....Lets respect that...fishin don't mean ya need company or friends...it yer inner peace

That's fishin ...ta each his/her own....

I fish cause its a challenge....notta ta look down on others....

Find yer hole an fish it...how ya want....but jus respect tha others around you


Now that's tha B/L's runnin...plus my .05cents....keep tha chang....


Sarge...hope the blues don't keep ya down


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

I think this is a sport that has lots of folks that act that way. 

But is it unique to P&S? Go check out some of the other mid-Atlantic boards and you'll find hostility and cliquisheness that will make your head spin. And it's not just down south--there are plenty of New England boards that are even worse.

I'm not saying there aren't some rude know-it-alls on here. There are. But as far as I'm concerned, this place is head and shoulders above the level of friendliness on other sites.

If anybody causes trouble on the NJ board, please drop me a line. I'll boot them in a heartbeat if they are making this place hostile to newcomers. But if the discourse on other state boards is getting on your nerves, I suggest you jump into the fray and state your case.

If you don't want to bring more people to the site because of talk down south, I don't quite know how to respond. I hoped you could add some good folks to the community. How about you invite them and let them make up their own minds? Maybe their opinions will piss off the southerners just as bad...

PS: Sorry about your back. I hope you get well soon.


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

I have to agree with SF, this board is 
very mild compared to all of the 
other major boards on the Atlantic 
Coast. At least as a mod your words
carry some weight and you are in 
somewhat of a position to address
the issues that you feel are bringing
P&S down. Use the power, you get
to deal with all the crap may as well
enjoy some of the perks. 

I do know how folks can get to you
though...I almost quit the board
just last month.


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## fyremanjef (Feb 17, 2005)

*P&S cant be that bad*

Following up on what Matt said, this site can't be that bad.

Today, I saw an ad for StripersOnline advertised on the top of P&S!

Either they are trying to get members or whatever, SOL is seeking out visitors to P&S.

Regarding comments and posts of others. I have lurked on this site for a while and been a supporter for about 7 months. In that time I have got to know a most of the regulars on here, both via the web and in person. I use to ask lots of questions about braid vs. mono, what are circle hooks, how to tie bottom rigs and even how to mod my cart.

I received responses from both ends of the spectrum on all issues. I did what anyone should do when asking for advice. Take it all in, try to sort it out and make a rational decison based on all the information.


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

i think you missed jeff's humor.

neil


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## johnnyleo11 (Dec 17, 2003)

Sgt. Slough,

You need some therapy. And by that, I mean taking the ACE and smelling some salt air. Perhaps wet a line as well. Take a trip out to Montauk, the "Other" Point.

Take everything here in stride. Perhaps your physical condition at the moment has you in the doldrums.

If you will peruse through Newsjeff's posts, you'll see his feeble attempts at humor. Take his signature for starters. Real southerners don't even go to Cracker Barrel!


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

> Take his signature for starters. Real southerners don't even go to Cracker Barrel!


You're right. I won't eat there. They have a history of discrimination against minorities. 
And those with HIV.
I'll see ya at Parkers or B's in Greenville, NC.


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

i didn't think jam handled it well.advice given as an opinion is one thing.advice given as the gospel is another.i took it as being talked down to.
sgt,slough's post makes a lot of sense.
i'm gonna sit back and chill a little.never thought such an innocent post would turn foul so fast.


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

i know him, as most of the guys who responded do. he didnt mean it in a way to talk down to anyone dood. nobody here wants to pick fights with anyone.... most of them guys that posted are too old to be pickin fights  , the others drink too much. lets get over that thread, so many better things to argue about right? we can talk about circle hooks next for fun....

neil


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

NTKG said:


> i know him, as most of the guys who responded do. he didnt mean it in a way to talk down to anyone dood. nobody here wants to pick fights with anyone.... most of them guys that posted are too old to be pickin fights  , the others drink too much. lets get over that thread, so many better things to argue about right? we can talk about circle hooks next for fun....
> 
> neil


Your sense of humor is almost as good as Jeffs....


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

*Ntkg........*

I'm gonna start callin ya the "spoon" because ya like stirrin it up...lol  .


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

damn dog... alright... as a show of love for jersey(  ) i'll edit... slew's post concerned a point i wont try to add stuff to it...

stirrin huh? its not even winter yet! those drum need to hurry up.


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## chinookhead (Dec 13, 2004)

*Thanks for helping the salmon fisherman*

Sgt_Slough, if you're interested I fish the Hudson and Staten Island. I have definitely learned alot from the "point guys" about heavers and this has allowed me to use 2-3 hours of the high tide that was unfishable last season (my 1st year in the salt) b/c of the heavy currents that I face in some of my East River and Hudson spots. The conditions are not identical, but they have similar attributes that allow techniques developed elsewhere to meet similarly challenging positions....Instead of heavy surf, I face a 10mph current and have to tossa bunker chunk over 75 yards to get to the hole that I want to fish (need at least 8oz. to hold bottom). As a result of this board I purchased a set-up that works and I guess in the Penn 525 HO/braid thread i was talked out of potentially ruining a trip making myself and others angry and also ruining this new reel that is a pleasure to fish with.


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

RuddeDogg said:


> I'm gonna start callin ya the "spoon" because ya like stirrin it up...lol  .


That's NTKG guy is an idiot...and a friend of mine...  ... He eats his noodles with chopsticks and expect you guys to do the same... .. some other people use forks...   Same goes for fishing.. .. do whatever you like... opinions from these guys are free, take it or leave it... .. can't make you use chopsticks to eat noodles like us...


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*I agree with Sgt.*

We all came here to Pierandsuf for mostly the same reason, to seek information and eventually to share our knownledge and the results of our fishing trips.

So lets all remember that when a newbie ask a question, and there are no stupid questions, or a regular poster ask for suggestion, be kind and don't preach to him/her that your way is the only way.


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## Fish Hunter (Jul 31, 2002)

*Sgt is kinda right*

I got the same response that he was talking about last year when I visited Plum Island and asked a few questions. Looked at me like I wuz in overalls, no shirt and baccer juice running down my chin.

So, it is not universal to the south or north, just universal.


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## fyremanjef (Feb 17, 2005)

*I think*

I think it is funny that a member of the AC is considered a "good old boy". I guess that explains the Led Zepplin fancy. 

Peace and Love, not push and shove


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

I kind of see the other side of this issue.
A lot of the vets on the board have put
in years of their lives to learn what they 
know. They learned it by going out and
putting in the hours. I am sure just
about everyone would love to help out
a newbie, but I also think that they 
expect them to put in some effort and
meet them halfway. Have they done a 
search on the board for the answer to 
a basic question? Or do they expect
to just throw out the question and have
someone else do a search and then
post a link directing them to the information?
A little initiative goes a LONG way. If 
you know that something has been 
described in detail, telling a newbie to 
do a search on it is fine. Granted it should
be done in a welcoming and friendly way.


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## DERFM (Jun 19, 2004)

> A little initiative goes a LONG way.


well said ........the whole post 
it's just too bad that now a days it seems like it's gotta be instant gratification ....... no one wants to put the time in to figgure anything out ; don't want to do research just ask ?? & get an additude when they get 20 different ways to do something ...............

it's ramapnt on almost all the fishin' boards 

there is more than just 1 way to do anything 
derf


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

CrawFish said:


> That's NTKG guy is an idiot...and a friend of mine...  ... He eats his noodles with chopsticks and expect you guys to do the same... .. some other people use folks...   Same goes for fishing.. .. do whatever you like... opinions from these guys are free, take it or leave it... .. can't make you use chopsticks to eat noodles like us...



dood... what the hell are folks and how do u eat with them?


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

NTKG said:


> dood... what the hell are folks and how do u eat with them?



Damn Asiasns :--|  


NTKG - jus a regular GO'B / ******* / God fearin / Gun totin /NRA freek.....


God bless .....knowin more than one way ta skin a cat...


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

like i said...use what you know...try new stuff...take what you get off the internet with a grain of salt...if it sounds interesting...try it...stupid stuff comes out of good a good person sometimes...do what i do...take what you like and "kick the rest to the curb"...


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## RoryGoggin (Jan 6, 2005)

Talapia said:


> Have they done a
> search on the board for the answer to
> a basic question? Or do they expect
> to just throw out the question and have
> ...


Perhaps you don't realize that non-supporters can't search unless they know how to use a google site specific search?


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

RoryGoggin said:


> Perhaps you don't realize that non-supporters can't search unless they know how to use a google site specific search?


Perhaps they should become supporters...


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

Cdog said:


> Perhaps they should become supporters...



perhaps they should... and rory, they can. im just registered right now and i can search all i want. 10 bucks to gain a buncha info aint bad


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

> unless they know how to use a google site specific search?


What the hell is that??? I'm still trying to find out how eat noodles with folks.


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## RoryGoggin (Jan 6, 2005)

Cdog said:



> Perhaps they should become supporters...


SIGH. OK so a noob comes online to learn more about fishing - he doesn't know too much about the computers, but he has been told to go to P&S to learn some. He can't search. So he asks a "dumb question" and YOU guys give him a hard time? Then tell him he should pay for a "pig in a poke"? And you see nothing wrong with this concept? OK, I'm wrong and the rest of you are right.



NTKG said:


> perhaps they should... and rory, they can. im just registered right now and i can search all i want. 10 bucks to gain a buncha info aint bad


Last I checked, you had to be a supporter to use the search feature. I know you can't as a "lurker" but you used to need to be a supporter to use the forums search feature. Maybe this has changed?



Newsjeff said:


> What the hell is that??? I'm still trying to find out how eat noodles with folks.


It is a way to search a forum that doesn't have a search feature.


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

Newsjeff said:


> What the hell is that??? I'm still trying to find out how eat noodles with folks.


Hey NJ, bite me!!!


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

no you dont need to support. all you have to do is register


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## Green Cart (May 14, 2002)

*Not Only That*

I know we keep talking about Search, but there is another research tool - do a little more reading before asking questions. One does not have to be registered to use this tool. Just scroll down - read several messages to get the feel for the ongoing trend or just scroll down through the Titles (threads) and opening several "identical" titles (threads) to research the subject matter.


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## RoryGoggin (Jan 6, 2005)

NTKG said:


> no you dont need to support. all you have to do is register


Cool - a while back you had to be a supporter to get the Search menu. Registered makes more sense to me - they have to register before they can post, and thus they can search before asking a question!



Green Cart said:


> I know we keep talking about Search, but there is another research tool - do a little more reading before asking questions. One does not have to be registered to use this tool. Just scroll down - read several messages to get the feel for the ongoing trend or just scroll down through the Titles (threads) and opening several "identical" titles (threads) to research the subject matter.


That's true too. One of the "unwritten" (though I think it HAS been written about many times) rules of any and all online communities, including the old BBSers and the Newsgroups Users-groups is that all newcomers should read for a while before posting!


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## Kenmefish (Apr 21, 2000)

I say, ask all the questions you want. A lot of people on this board will answer to the best of their knowledge. 
If someone asking questions bothers you, then that is your own problem. You can answer the question or not. Most of the time it would be a lot easier to answer the question than to try and lecture soneone about how you think they should gain information.
Also fishing the point is something everyone should do ONE TIME. It is an education. Some peopld love it, but most would rather find their own spot. Sure there are more fish there generally, but there are are also a lot more fisherpeople there to compete with and most of them know how to fish that spot better than I do. I tend to do better at other locations.

Tight lines...

Ken


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

Love the way you quote me and conveniently
forget to include this part:



Talapia said:


> I kind of see the other side of this issue. A lot of the vets on the board have put in years of their lives to learn what they
> know. They learned it by going out and
> putting in the hours. I am sure just
> about everyone would love to help out
> ...


Then you come on and make this statement:




RoryGoggin said:


> SIGH. OK so a noob comes online to learn more about fishing - he doesn't know too much about the computers, but he has been told to go to P&S to learn some. He can't search. *So he asks a "dumb question" and YOU guys give him a hard time?  * Then tell him he should pay for a "pig in a poke"? And you see nothing wrong with this concept? OK, I'm wrong and the rest of you are right.
> 
> Last I checked, you had to be a supporter to use the search feature. I know you can't as a "lurker" but you used to need to be a supporter to use the forums search feature. Maybe this has changed?
> 
> It is a way to search a forum that doesn't have a search feature.



Yes, you are wrong. Wrong for making
statements that were false about the search, 
wrong for not saying "my bad" I was wrong
about that", and wrong for trying to use
my words out of context.


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

Has anyone been catching anything? I'm trying to wet a line somewhere and don't mind the driving within 4hrs radius from NoVA Area. Thanks in advance....


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## HighCap56 (Oct 21, 2003)

Sgt. - I have received more attitude from Tidal Fish and a couple of other boards than I have here.

I came to VB from Texas. I did not know anyone. I met this good bunch of worthless fishermen from P&S and had a great time for the duration of my VB stay.

You have attitudes everywhere.

Be happy you can at least catch some fish up there. You could come over to the left with me and fight the tourists to catch a Grunion.

It's about social skills. Some can deal with all types, some cannot. Some perceive ribbing as insults. Some have no clue how to post and a nice guy can come off looking like an ass.

They may have been looking for abuse and reflected an attitude that received it.

You can't do better than to recommend your friends P&S. If they don't play well with others, they are not obligated to read or post.


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## RoryGoggin (Jan 6, 2005)

Talapia said:


> Love the way you quote me and conveniently
> forget to include this part:
> 
> 
> ...


Bite me. 

Oh, and quite trying to pick a fight over nothing.


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

RoryGoggin said:


> Bite me.
> 
> Oh, and quite trying to pick a fight over nothing.


Just the answer I would expect from
your last few posts. Do a little 
reading and see who came on this 
thread spouting garbage. Oh wait, you 
never take responsibility for any of the
crap you put out there.


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## Otter (Jun 18, 2004)

CrawFish said:


> Has anyone been catching anything? I'm trying to wet a line somewhere and don't mind the driving within 4hrs radius from NoVA Area. Thanks in advance....


Good try man. Good try.

I'm in the same boat though. My brother is in town this weekend and I just want to put him on some fish. Don't know of any sure things in the 2-3 hrs from DC range.

What are you plannin?


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## fyremanjef (Feb 17, 2005)

*I'll try to help*

Otter,

Long time no see. HOpe things are going well.

I was thinking of heading east, yet again. Might to to CHP or IRI or maybe 3R's. Don't quite have the confidence for the AI or NC surf yet. Let me know if you or Teo go anywhere, I may tag along.

Jeff





Otter said:


> Good try man. Good try.
> 
> I'm in the same boat though. My brother is in town this weekend and I just want to put him on some fish. Don't know of any sure things in the 2-3 hrs from DC range.
> 
> What are you plannin?


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## SALTSHAKER (Dec 5, 2002)

*braid on reels*

OK guys, nuff said,, all the bases for the most part have been covered, points made etc... soooo turn out the light the parties over.... salt,,, new jersey geezer....


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## fyremanjef (Feb 17, 2005)

*CDog*

Nice Avatar, I am sure Clyde is in approval

 :--| :--|


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

Sarge You are right on with your observation. I have life method. When I Roman do as Romans do. Which means to me when Casting on the Cape(not NC) I will be throwng large plugs with Red Gills or flies as teasers. When fish Cape Point(NC) I will be tossing 8oz or so and a short leader 8/0-12/0 circle hook. And every place in between can be different. When I go fishing in a new place I research where I'm going and bring what I believe is needed. Hell I'm probally the only person tossing Pikes off the Va Beach Coast to stripers in the winter months. But it works(HEHE). The next thing I do is try and fish the way the locals do.
Now I wish more people would post their location (or something close) so members could know if their experence would apply. By the way I have lived in "The Hamptons" to Homestead Fla.
I guess the real question is in many situations what are you targeting and what are you throwing bait, wood or metal(or something local).


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

fyremanjef said:


> Nice Avatar, I am sure Clyde is in approval
> 
> :--| :--|


Thanks for noticing....


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## johnnyleo11 (Dec 17, 2003)

Why doesn't Sgt. Slough post another message so this thread can have closure? After all, he did "open up a can of worms." I recall plenty of other threads that have this theme in common.

And yes, I did utilize my Search capabilities.


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

I have to ask why someone would be an active and supporting member of any site,group or anything if they would have to question wether they were willing to tell others or recommend it to someone else wether it be one person or a thousand????????????? guess it follows the old sayin if you aint willin to do it yourself then dont tell noone else to. In other words if u cant recommend this site to others then why be a member.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

*SGT,if I sound like that "FLAME ME"*

Yes,I've caught some fish,but love to see folks that have never caught one catch one as well.. That is the reason I post. Can't count the number of folks I've witnessed catching their first drum or cobe.. Believe me,it's as rewarding,if not more so than catching one myself..

If I sound "elitest" jump down my throat,trustme I'll take the critisism in stride,and make corrections if necessary.. We are all going to have differing ways of fishing,depending on the areas we fish. If I post my way,then it is only that,my way,there are many others that can fit the bill as well or better..

One thing that I have found through experience,that in fishing there ARE NO absolutes.. Digger made a good comment though, "when in Rome do as the Romans.." That goes for the Point,places up north striper fishing,or on the planks. When I am in a first time fishing situation,I heed what the regulars say,and try to learn from them,and MY MISTAKES,which I make my fair share..   

I'm sorry you feel that way about this board. In my view it is one of the more moderate boards when you compair it to others IMO..


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

sandflea said:


> Go check out some of the other mid-Atlantic boards and you'll find hostility and cliquisheness that will make your head spin. And it's not just down south--there are plenty of New England boards that are even worse.


Flea: I am active on other boards (ACFishing, TBB, SOL & SS.com), I see that many have cliques and rude people- _that_, in such a simplistic form, is not my objection. Rudeness can usually be ignored because _most_ times it comes from ignorance. Ignorance is *not* among this board’s issues; it does have, as active members some of the most knowledgeable fishermen on the boards. 

I also occasionally post on a Long Island board (fishing line) and lurk everyday on another (surfrats); that’s why I mentioned the “elitist rockhoppers of Montauk” They would give the Point regulars a run for their money in the _not-tolerating-outsider’s-antics_ department. Thing is though, I’ve never read one of those guys presume that the “Montauk style” is the only proper way to fish. THAT’s the attitude that often comes across here . . . The “advice” which consists of statements on line, shockleaders, reels, etc that are, in their expert opinion, not even a subject for discussion. 



sandflea said:


> If you don't want to bring more people to the site because of talk down south, I don't quite know how to respond.


Well, strange as it may seem, many here in Jersey _especially_ the tournament anglers I would be referring, use braid on conventionals, use braid shockleaders, use spinners to throw 8&bait and use fishfinders longer than 7 inches. They do this with great success. A short return to the “braid on a 525mag” thread in the *DISTANCE CASTING* forum will give you a taste of how such “normal” (to us) tactics are received by the P&S Southern Command experts. This explains FishBucket’s comment about JAM’s unequivocal – no room for discussion – rule about braid on a 525. See, I fish with Bucket, he’s been using braid on his 525's and Newells for a _long, long time_ and landed tons of fish in tournament conditions. 

So who’s right?? Wouldn’t it seem completely illogical if a Yankee stated that short fishfinders just don’t work? What would be the reception if he wrote, never, ever, ever ever use a fishfinder shorter than 2 feet? Well, that’s how the Southern Command’s experts opinions on line, leaders etc come off to us.

Well, let’s hear from the man who started the thread.



chinookhead said:


> Sgt_Slough, if you're interested I fish the Hudson and Staten Island. I have definitely learned alot from the "point guys" about heavers and this has allowed me to use 2-3 hours of the high tide that was unfishable last season (my 1st year in the salt) b/c of the heavy currents that I face in some of my East River and Hudson spots . . . I face a 10mph current and have to tossa bunker chunk over 75 yards to get to the hole that I want to fish (need at least 8oz. to hold bottom)


.

My answer to him would be that YES braid might really help him fish such conditions more effectively. Using even a thinner braid than the normal 50 -65lb and practicing with it (because the spool will spin slower on the cast) he could reduce the effect of the 10mph current has on his tackle (better bite detection, better bottom holding, etc).

But, nobody asked about his particular situation; he just received the obligatory “Point” answer, cuts off the mono guy next to you, it’ll crush your spool, bad, _bad_, _*BAD*_ idea etc . . . The truth is, with a little experimentation, braid might have been a helpful change FOR HIS SITUATION / LOCATION.

I honestly have no argument with their opinion that braid is a bad idea on the conga line at the point; I understand why that is and I would respect the local custom. I do have an issue with the attitude that presumes to extend such “rules” to everybody, everywhere, especially when the long-standing practices of very knowledgeable fishermen stand in direct opposition to their rules.

That is my only issue . . . all I'm asking for is a level of understanding that people in other areas might have different practices than what is your local custom.

Essentially, Just cause you're from Maine, don't force snowshoes on a guy from Florida.


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

Sgt. before ya jump on my backside go back and read some of my messages, I usally start out by asking where and what are they fishing for to give a better answer. Instead of you jumping everyones arse and questioning if this board is worth while to invite your friends to visit maybe your time would have been used coming up with a question form for new members to be able to ask questions and explain what they are fishing for and where and the conditions they are fishing under.
Your a Moderator, you of all folks should know,,, Either come up with a better answer to the problem or don't complain or worse become part of the problem.
Yes, everyone should be perfect but were only fishermen, we wade out into the water, we don't walk on top of it.


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## Otter (Jun 18, 2004)

Shooter said:


> Yes, everyone should be perfect but were only fishermen, we wade out into the water, we don't walk on top of it.


...that's really clever man. Did you come up with that?


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

Well, let’s hear from the man who started the thread.

.



> My answer to him would be that YES braid might really help him fish such conditions more effectively. Using even a thinner braid than the normal 50 -65lb and practicing with it (because the spool will spin slower on the cast) he could reduce the effect of the 10mph current has on his tackle (better bite detection, better bottom holding, etc).
> 
> But, nobody asked about his particular situation; he just received the obligatory “Point” answer, cuts off the mono guy next to you, it’ll crush your spool, bad, _bad_, _*BAD*_ idea etc . . . The truth is, with a little experimentation, braid might have been a helpful change FOR HIS SITUATION / LOCATION.





i knew this whole time he was your friend. i knew this argument and stuff did not begin for the sake of fisherman in general, but because you thought one of your friends got harped, and so did alot of other people on this board.....


im really tired of hearing about all this, just so you know not all of us respond to questions in the board. im sure you can ask some people if i've ever sent them pm;s with advice. and just so you know YES people did ask him about his personal situation... here is one of the pm's he sent me.







> No offense taken....I didn't even realize that I was suppose to be offended by the responses until i read this thread...hahahha
> 
> Just thought that it was people debating fishing techniques. U are right it is easy making that kind of cast and tossing big weight with that reel. Really no burned thumbs needed like with my 15 year old torqued abu 6500C3...I'm pretty sure that I torqued it when I bulled in over 30 big blues w/ braid on that reel....All of the sudden I realized towards teh end off teh day that reeling was not so smooth and I saw that the reel handle etc. was a bit bent



so from what i take of it, he appreciated learning braid can infact harm reels and was happy to have that info... most people are grown, they can be big boys and girls and pick and chose from the information that was presented. if he's not taking offense from it, i would figure you'd drop it by now. afterall you were saying how you feel too lazy to give advice the majority of the time. its a shame you called out all these people just to defend your friend and used the guise that you were looking out for everyones best interest. your a moderator i thought ya'll were supposed to be a lil mo better at controling yourselves. and yes, i even talked to your buddy several times.... and we came to this



> what a coincidence.i was just thinking how this thread got out of hand.i really like this site and i can't figure out why i'm arguing with people i've never met.must be the full moon.i'm gonna be a little more careful about choosing my words in future posts.i wasn't down playing their knowledge,it just sounded to me like they were preaching the gospel to the choir.ahh old age is a bitch.
> hope to see you sometime on the beach,



the internet is a horrible place to act head up chest out. lets all remember emotion in words are not as well defined as in actions and that anything can be typed to make itself sound bad! and realize advice is advice, people wouldnt give it unless they wanted to help. you really think that the guys down south with meet most of you northern guys? but we're giving advice and different methods, nobody is forcing anything on anyone... 

oh and this whole thread, crap and all was worth it to hear shooters new line... SHOOTER, i want to make bumper stickers of that! 


man today looks like a good day to kill this thing


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

*Ntkg....*

For a lil guy....ya got a Big snapper    ...

Nice point.....


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

*Well said.....*

Well said, spoon, er.... um... ah..Neil, that's it. Good job well put.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

Shooter said:


> Sgt. before ya jump on my backside go back and read some of my messages, I usally start out by asking where and what are they fishing for to give a better answer.


I’ve purposely left names out except for JAM and FishBucket and that only to show the exact point I am making regarding regional differences of OPINION and the subsequent forcing of that opinion down someone’s throat. You were not even on the radar regarding the issue I raised; your posting style is the type to be emulated.



Shooter said:


> Instead of you jumping everyones arse and questioning if this board is worth while to invite your friends to visit maybe your time would have been used coming up with a question form for new members to be able to ask questions and explain what they are fishing for and where and the conditions they are fishing under.. . .


The questions are not the issue; it’s the _answers_. 



Shooter said:


> Your a Moderator, you of all folks should know,,, Either come up with a better answer to the problem or don't complain or worse become part of the problem.


I thought it better to have a thread of my _own_ to bring _my_ concerns out in the open. I just needed to directly question why some people can not recognize that things might be done differently on another beach. Would it have been better to respond in each thread where this happened and have each thread turn into a battle?



Shooter said:


> Yes, everyone should be perfect but were only fishermen, we wade out into the water, we don't walk on top of it.


Cute, but it seems that some here think they do walk on water and their opinions are the Gospel of surf fishing. Posts 4 and 6 in the "braid on a 525MAG/HO?" thread are EXACTLY what I am talking about. JAM’s post 6 has _*everything*_ I’m calling out in it. SurfRat's post #16 only pours more gas on the fire. *WE ARE NOT ALL FIGHTING 40LB DRUM OR 70LB COBIA!!!! *

That's what I'm talking about.

It's interesting how *no* discussion has ensued regarding my actual points -- _even when some here have agreed with the sentiment_ -- but there has been plenty of attack the messenger . . . .


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

NTKG said:


> i knew this whole time he was your friend. i knew this argument and stuff did not begin for the sake of fisherman in general, but because you thought one of your friends got harped, and so did alot of other people on this board.....


You know, I read your post 13 before you edited it down from 800 words to 15 . . . while it was an interesting look into how your mind works it certainly didn’t warrant a reply. (I wish I would have copied it though, I didn’t realize you would come back an hour later and sweep out your footprints). Now though it seems you have engaged the paranoid conspiracy synapse of your brain and you just seem begging for a scuffle. 

I don’t know Chinookhead. Since the fundamental premise of your post is incorrect I could stop replying right now . . . but I can’t though . . .



NTKG said:


> im really tired of hearing about all this,


If that statement were not so tragically ironic it would be funny. 



NTKG said:


> afterall you were saying how you feel too lazy to give advice the majority of the time.


I hope your fishin skilz are better than your reading comprehension. Where on Earth do you get this from?



NTKG said:


> its a shame you called out all these people just to defend your friend and used the guise that you were looking out for everyones best interest. your a moderator i thought ya'll were supposed to be a lil mo better at controling yourselves. and yes, i even talked to your buddy several times.... and we came to this


You have just about covered it all there . . . How long do these episodes normally last?



NTKG said:


> the internet is a horrible place to act head up chest out.


Another tragically ironic statement given how _you_ come across.


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## HighCap56 (Oct 21, 2003)

Sarg - Neil is a stand-up guy. Think you are truly mis-understanding him.

Gotta agree about the Moderator Hat .. wear one myself in other places. There were better ways and avenues to discuss this. 

You have seen the responses here .. let it go .. take it private if needed. This does no good for the board overall IMHO.

Not a shot at ya ... just an observation


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

62 replies and 1,112 views in how many
days? To be perfectly honest, these type
of "discussions" tend to drive up the hit
count to the highest levels of the year.

A good for the board/bad for members
who get pissed type of thing. Haven't 
seen this much posting done since the
last "conflict" thread.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

*HighCap*

I appreciate and respect your opinion HighCap but Neil’s words speak for themselves, there is not much room for misinterpretation. He is mistaken about me and my motives for posting. If anything is being misunderstood it’s my position. 

As far as other avenues; I knew there were many who felt as I did and to be honest, I wanted them to see the issue brought out in the sunlight. Too many have been slapped down.

I’m not going back to count but at least 4 people posted and said they felt put-out and treated the way I describe. How many didn’t post? Like Tilapia says, look at the post count; There are alotta people following this and in the grand scheme of things this is small potatoes.

Look, I do not want to come across as questioning anyone’s knowledge of fishing or value as a poster . . . Quite the contrary I am recognizing and celebrating the wealth of knowledge our members have. I don’t doubt for a second that JAM and SurfRat et al are sharpies of the first order and I honestly respect and value their knowledge and experience.. . . My issue is their extending the conditions / fish /crowds etc. of Hatteras into all their replies. 

The beaches we fish in the South Jersey tournaments are like flooded parking lots; ya can walk out 100yards cast 150yards and still be fishing 5 feet of water. So when FishBucket wrote that braid allows you to feel light bites at 600ft he’s talking about seamullet and 13" bluefish; that's what we fish for in most of these tourneys, that's what puts inches on the board. If we heaved out a Drum rig it would be years before we needed a judge. 

As for “letting it go” all I want is a short public dialogue with the people I’ve mentioned and an acknowledgment that the tactics and tackle used to catch big Drum and Cobia on the Outer Banks are not necessarily applicable to the rest of the world and that they will recognize that in their posts outside the NC board.

Is that so tough?


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

The first rule of post club:

You are not going to change anybody
else's opinion or position.

Once you understand that you will
have a lot less stress in your life.

that is from personal experience...


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## the rhondel (Feb 6, 2003)

Since JAM and SurfRat responded to questions asked on the Va and NC boards ,I believe them to be correct in their responses as to Va and NC techniques.Any moron knows that what may apply in one locale doesn't necessarily apply at another.....give it up,they owe you nothing!...the R


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

the rhondel said:


> Since JAM and SurfRat responded to questions asked on the Va and NC boards ,I believe them to be correct in their responses as to Va and NC techniques.Any moron knows that what may apply in one locale doesn't necessarily apply at another.....give it up,they owe you nothing!...the R


I wouldn't think of questioning their posts in the NC and VA boards; that is their home turf. In fact, I agree wholeheartedly with their recommendations for their beaches. The thread that I have been refering to (and repeatedly linking to) is in the Distance Casting Forum.


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

Sgt Slough, thanks for the link. Very
interesting read. I saw at least
2 points where a moderator could
and probably should have stepped in to
regain control of an out of control
thread. That is where you come in.
You are a mod. Use the authority that
Sand Flea gave you to correct stuff
like this as you see them. I also
believe that since you publicly stated
that you were not sure if you could
endorse pier and surf to others that 
you owe a public answer to that question.
Eithor you can or you can't. If you
can't then you should not be a mod.


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## can't fish today (Oct 8, 2003)

> I have an excuse to be miserable, I’ve been laid up for over two weeks with a back problem; I haven’t smelled the ocean for nearly a month.


Bud, I really hope you get to feeling better so you get back out real soon.


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

> You are a mod. Use the authority that
> Sand Flea gave you to correct stuff
> like this as you see them.


Umm ... I'm not sure if the good Sgt. has authority to moderate that board. I'm just guessing here, but I'm thinking he can only step in on the Jersey board??? 



> Eithor you can or you can't. If you
> can't then you should not be a mod.


That's Mr. Flea's decision. And Flea runs a very, very good site. I'm not even gonna touch this one.


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## FL FISHERMAN (Sep 30, 2002)

> Eithor you can or you can't. If you can't then you should not be a mod.


I hear you Henry. And yes he could of stopped it in the Distance Board but it is a no-no b/c it he doesn't govern that board. That is longcasters job. I am going to start a fire here but I believe we should abolish the Distance board altogether for reasons like this. Most of the distance casters have moved on to their own board and rarely show up here. 95% of the answers to questions asked in that forum come from regular regional forum posters. *THEN* Chinook would have posted on the NJ board and would have gotten NJ style answers to his question!! By posting in the Distance board one leaves it open to all opinions and answers. I do think that thread got way out of hand especially by JAM *and* Fish Bucket. But I am pretty sure you won't see an apology from either. I think you are going to have to let it go sooner or later. By stirring the pot it is looking more of a yankee vs southerner argument. If you can't then I just see you becoming another speck on the wall in the scheme of things. JMHO


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## Hat80 (Sep 22, 2002)

*Three things here....*

1) A Mod only has control over their own board, not the other boards.

2) longcaster is no longer the Mod of the Distance casting board.

3) *It's way past time to put this one to bed!*
Lets go fishing! .....Tightlines


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

Otter said:


> ...that's really clever man. Did you come up with that?


Yup I am ashamed to say every once in a long great while I let a bright idea slip out of my head so now I am safe to be dumb for another year or so  
And NTKG I want to see some $$ or atleast a cold B/L,,, I aint sliped back into the dumb mode yet


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

Point taken guys. And I think that
Sgt understood what I was trying to 
get across.  (Did ya?  ) 
I do have to admit that after reading the
thread I can definitely see where he
was coming from. Sgt, hope you can
start to "feel" the love again.


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