# Math question



## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

I suck at math. 

I have a reel that holds 350 yards of 15lb mono.

Can some - pleaese, for the love of god - tell me how much line this reel will hold of 20lb line?

This might help????

The 15lb mono measures .007 of an inch or 23mm in diameter. 

And the 20lb mono is .009 of an inch or .28mm.

Thanks in advance.


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## Cobia Seeker (Mar 19, 2002)

You mean we got to think. Were just fisherman here......Oh bout 300 or a little more.


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

Cobia Seeker said:


> You mean we got to think. Were just fisherman here......Oh bout 300 or a little more.


I really don't think it's that much. 

Then again, that's just a guess.

I'm thinkin' about 275, more or less.

I'd love to see a formula for this question.


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## Cobia Seeker (Mar 19, 2002)

Don't know, will do some research.

How many glasses does it take to get to the bottom of a Hieni. mini keg.


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

272.22 yards I think. Maybe...

350 x .007 / .009 = 272.22 

I'd say 275 is a pretty good guess.


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

Surf Fish said:


> 272.22 yards I think. Maybe...
> 
> 350 x .007 / .009 = 272.22
> 
> I'd say 275 is a pretty good guess.


Dude, that's awsome. Thank you very much. 

I owe ya a beer, brother. 

The formula looks simple, but I'm still not sure I understand it. 

Oh, well. As long as it works. 

Thanks again.


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## fingersandclaws (Oct 17, 2005)

Cobia Seeker said:


> Don't know, will do some research.
> 
> How many glasses does it take to get to the bottom of a Hieni. mini keg.


By mini, do you mean 1/2 keg (which is a regular size) or pony?  

180 glasses assuming you have an ideal 12oz. pour, no foam/waste, and the keg was filled perfectly for the 1/2 keg.


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## barty b (Dec 31, 2004)

*315 yards*

The 20lb is 10% larger diameter than the 15lb..so your reel should hold 10% LESS 20 than 15.
350 X .90=315. 
Roughly rounded figures but should be accurate within a few yards depending on fill level.


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## barty b (Dec 31, 2004)

Cobia Seeker said:


> Don't know, will do some research.
> 
> How many glasses does it take to get to the bottom of a Hieni. mini keg.


 One. I have a big glass :beer:


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## fingersandclaws (Oct 17, 2005)

I think the numbers might be off?  

I haven't done much addin' recently, but 23mm to 28mm percentage is totally different than the 
.007" to .009" percentage. 

If ya do it one way, you get 271.95 yards and if ya do it the other way, you get 287.49 yards. I guess take the average and got with 279 yards?


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## BubbaBlue (May 11, 2004)

The math is sound, but does mono deform to fill in the space between the lays? If not, I think there'll be bigger air gaps and wasted space between the 20 than the 15.

Think of a stack of cylinders and space between them. 

I think if one was guessing the final number, I would guess on the low side. 

On the other hand, I'm probably wrong.   
.


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

I dunno about gaps in the diffrent line sizes. Or if the diameter/circumfrence of the reel's spool even makes a diffrence. This is waaaay over my head. 

I got the numbers for the line from the PowerPro site:
http://www.powerpro.com/using/specs.asp


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## jrocket567 (Mar 14, 2007)

fingersandclaws said:


> I haven't done much addin' recently, but 23mm to 28mm percentage is totally different than the
> .007" to .009" percentage.



Ran the numbers- the percentage difference between .23 and .28 mm is (.23-.28)/.23= -21.7% reduction.
.007 and .009 is (.007-.009)/.007=-28% reduction. The differences lie in the conversion between US and metric- And if youre gonna split those hairs, there are a buncha others, like how tightly packed is the line (circles don't fit together too well- try covering the floor of a box with golfballs and look at all the empty space. do the same with softballs and the space will be a lot different).

So for a good estimate, youll loose 1/4 of the 15lb capacity of 350, which is about 88 yards, so you are looking at a 20lb capacity of somewhere around 265 yards. Not exact, and won't be unless you want some crazy formulas.

Hope that helps,
Jay

P.S- if you put the 20 on it, let me know what the actual count is!


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## BubbaBlue (May 11, 2004)

After thinking about it while taking a shower I bet we're making this more complicated than it needs to be.

I bet the ratio for line capacity is similar across all reels of a similar style. (Spinner, conv, Zebco,  )

In other words, if anyone has a reel with 15# and 20# capacities listed, a ratio formula would be easy to create that should apply to most reels of that type.

The gaps, line diameter, etc would already be included. Whats the saying? ... KISS... keep it simple stupid. I tend to not do that.  

I'd look at one of mine and figure it out, but I'm heading out for the eve. No time.
.


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

All I was worried about is getting a minimum of 270 yards of 20lb mono on the reel. 

I don't know which mono the PowerPro site measured, but I'd bet it's the thicker stuff (to make their braid look even thinner). 

I'll be using 20lb Sufix Tri Plus, and I don't the the diameter of that line. It might be thinner than .009/28mm. I dunno, but I bet it's a little thinner. 

The reel is a Pro Gear 501CS. The spool is very, very narrow on this reel. I don't know if or how this factors into the mix.

Some shops can get 275 yards 17lb Tri on my 525mag. Other shops can get only 250 on that reel. And I often wonder which shops to trust. So I don't want to take it to a shop to meausre. 

Anyway, it looks like I'll get close enough to the 270 yards that I wanted.


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## WILSON (Aug 27, 2002)

Jeff, do what i did with my 525 mag. I wanted to know how much sufix tri it would hold so i took it to get spooled at princess anne tackle and they gave me the exact yardage. After that I just do it on my own off of my big spools, takes out the guess work!!


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## WILSON (Aug 27, 2002)

must have posted as I was typing!


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

Tres' site says 20lb Sufix Tri meausres 0.43mm. 

Which is 0.017/inch, right?

I need a f***in' drink. :beer:


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## WILSON (Aug 27, 2002)

Just checked the spool of sufix tri 20 and it says 0.45mm.


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

I'm losin' line capacity on my Pro Gear by the minute. :beer: :beer:


Let's just call it a 25 percent reduction and be done with it. 

262.5


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

Still don't know why I don't stick with the Daiwa 30 reels. I know how much 20lb line that holds. 

It doesn't need a mag conversion.

It holds up very, very well in tough conditions.

And it'll pulls a 50" drum out of a ferocious current and over a steep ledge without having the drag skip.  

And it casts well.

And it's cheap.

Even in the best casting conditions, that's enough line. 

Say I was able to wade out 100 yards before I cast at low tide. Then get a boomin' cast with 6oz, a small bait and a 20 knot tailwind. That's 150 yards for me on a good day. OK, a great day. Then walk back to shore and spike my rod. That still gives me 50 yards of line to fight a fish. Nothin' is gonna get 50 yards of mine line execpt a big biter or a monster cobie. Even then I can walk back into the water if I have to. 

There are, indeed, several days a year when I can wade out that far and get a good cast when the cobies are around. 

Not sure the Pro Gear will give me this capacity.


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

Great DAY! Just fill the danged thing with 20# and fish with it...It'll be enough.


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## okimavich (Nov 13, 2006)

Basic Assumptions:

1. Line completely and perfectly wraps around spool (no gaps or "crossthreading")
2. Once completed, line comes up to the same spot on the spool
3. Assuming the first assumptions are true, the volume of line must be the same with both 0.007" and 0.009" diameter lines.

Volume(cylinder) = pi * r^2 * h
where:
pi = 3.14
r = radius of the circular base (1/2 diameter)
h = height or length of the line

Using Assumption 3:
V1 = V2
pi * r1^2* h1 = pi * r2^2 * h2

Solve for h2
h2 = h1 * r1^2 / r2^2

Substitute the following values:
h1 = 350 yards = 12600 inches
r1 = 0.007 / 2 inches = 0.0035 inches
r2 = 0.009 / 2 inches = 0.0045

Solve:
h2 = ( 12600 ) * ( 0.0035 ^ 2 ) / ( 0.0045 ^ 2 )
= 7622.22 inches
= 211.73 yards

Someone please check my math, but I believe that this should give you a good rough estimate of an ideal spool up. Then again, it's past my bedtime.


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## Hurricane44 (Aug 16, 2006)

Railroader said:


> Great DAY! Just fill the danged thing with 20# and fish with it...It'll be enough.


I like the way you think!


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## mwhuffman (Jun 16, 2004)

Try this line calculator...works for me.:beer: 
http://www.nccoastalfishing.com/linecalculator.htm


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## jettypark28 (Jun 23, 2006)

*My*

head hurts now after reading all this and you guys are forcing me to :beer: now...I say go to braid, and give up on that "Pansy Mono line"


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

mwhuffman said:


> Try this line calculator...works for me.:beer:
> http://www.nccoastalfishing.com/linecalculator.htm


Cool calculator. 

According to that tool, my Pro Gear will hold either 276 yards of 20lb Tri at .43mm or 252 yards at .45mm. 

Still confused. 

But it doesn't take much.


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## okimavich (Nov 13, 2006)

NJ,

Where did you get your numbers?

0.007 inches = 0.1778 mm (NOT 0.23 as you stated)
0.009 inches = 0.2286 mm (NOT 0.29 as you stated)

350 yards = 320.04 m

Using these numbers and the Line Capacity Calculator, you get the following two sizes:

0.20 mm - 252 m
0.25 mm - 161 m

If you interpolate 0.23 mm, you should get something near 190 - 200m.

190 - 200m = 207.787 - 218.723 yards

Going back to my calculations of 211.73 yards, I think the calculator and I appear to agree.

I think you are either using the wrong numbers or not converting them correctly. As my physics teacher used to say, "What your units."


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## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

Screw the math, what I want to know is where do you find 20lb test mono that's 0.23 mm in diameter. I'd love to find some 20lb mono that's just a bit more than half the diameter of 17lb Tri!


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

AtlantaKing said:


> Screw the math, what I want to know is where do you find 20lb test mono that's 0.23 mm in diameter. I'd love to find some 20lb mono that's just a bit more than half the diameter of 17lb Tri!


why do you need 20lbs test to catch croakas?


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## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

CrawFish said:


> why do you need 20lbs test to catch croakas?


I like overkill!  

____________________________
*WBB - Chief Technology Officer*


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

okimavich said:


> NJ,
> 
> Where did you get your numbers?


From the PowerPro site: 

http://www.powerpro.com/using/specs.asp

Naw, them number ain't right.


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## Adam (Feb 19, 2001)

Just throw 150yds of braid backing on it, then load it with 20#, that'll give you 300+/- total capacity.

Im puttin 17# on my 30's, and I can get somewhere around 375yds on em, which is plenty for Cobia on a casted bait. Beached a 6'+ Blacktip with the same setup last summer and it worked great.

Nice fish too Jeff. I fished the same hole Neil got his two out of on Friday and got skunked. Fished the Saturday bite on the Point and got skunked again .

Adam


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

Anyone want to buy a Pro Gear CS501 with a Chris Macey type knobby mag?


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## thebeachcaster (Aug 7, 2006)

*Berkley makes a line counter that attaches to a fishing rod.*

Put reel on rod. Put line counter on rod. Put line through counter then tie to spool of reel. Spool er up. Think the counter costs like 12 bucks or something. I'm gonna get one so when I make a good hit while fishing, I can tell exactly how far the cast is. I suck at math.


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## notso (Jul 18, 2005)

okimavich said:


> NJ,
> 
> Where did you get your numbers?
> 
> ...



I got the exact same #'s as you did (used same basic process). The early calcs people were putting up neglected that area (and hence volume) vary w/ the _SQUARE_ of the radius.


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## fyremanjef (Feb 17, 2005)

*Here you go*

This is simple math, but you have to be able to count. Apply some line to your spool, but count off 20 handle turns. Take the line off and measure it.

Now you know that 20 turns = X yards of line.

Now apply the line keeping track of the turns of the handle.

IF you put on 440 turns worth of line. 

Divide 440 by 20 = 22

Multiple 22 by X (yards of line)= amount on spool


Its the same principle that they use to determine the weight load of a bridge, they build a bridge, and start driving bigger and bigger trucks over it once it collapses, you know its maximum weight limit.


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

fyremanjef said:


> Now apply the line keeping track of the turns of the handle.
> 
> IF you put on 440 turns worth of line.
> 
> ...


That won't work. This was a trick question. He wants to know how much line the reel holds BEFORE he puts it on 

Not to mention that 20 wraps of line on an empty conventional spool will be a lot less line than 20 wraps on a full spool. I think we're gonna have to find a physicist (sp?) to solve this problem....


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## lipyanker (May 31, 2006)

*Ouch*

I got a big old headache!!!I got a big old headache!!!I got a big old headache!!!I got a big old headache!!!I got a big old headache!!!I got a big old headache!!!I got a big old headache!!!I got a big old headache!!!I got a big old headache!!!I got a big old headache 1+1=2


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## fyremanjef (Feb 17, 2005)

lipyanker said:


> 1+1=2



No 1+1 =3, Wear a condom


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## okimavich (Nov 13, 2006)

Surf Fish said:


> That won't work. This was a trick question. He wants to know how much line the reel holds BEFORE he puts it on
> 
> Not to mention that 20 wraps of line on an empty conventional spool will be a lot less line than 20 wraps on a full spool. I think we're gonna have to find a physicist (sp?) to solve this problem....


Why? No one has debunked my formula. That I can see.

The only problem I had was I started with the wrong diameters. But the formula still stands.

NJ has not clearly stated what his assumptions are for the diameters of the two lines in question.

But if we are talking about Sufix Tri, the diameters are as follows:
17lb - .40 mm (0.0158 in)
20lb - .43 mm (0.0169 in)

If:
17lb spool = 350 yd (12600 in)

Then:
20lb spool = 12600 * (0.0079 ^2) / (0.00845^2)
= 11013.14 in
= 305.92 yd


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## chris storrs (Aug 25, 2005)

without teh math...fill up teh reel with soem 20...go to a soccer/football field...tie sinker around goal post..walk to other goal post and back..if ya make it back thats 240 yds...if theres any extra youll be able to guestimate it


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

as someone that has worked in plastics i have to say there is no way to be as exact as some answeres i've seen...the line size given is an average...could be slightly larger or smaller...and it would depend on laying it on exactly...do they fill the spool to the max, we don't...they may...that cuts capicity down right there...if you really need the extra line, get a bigger reel...nice read, we have some very smart people here...


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## BubbaBlue (May 11, 2004)

Want exact?

Take your reel and your # of Tri+ to your local tackle shop and talk him into loading the reel using his line counter. Done.
 
.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*I think*

some of ya have already figured the numbers were not valid for the claculation.

Your reel will likely hold over 600yds of .28mm line.

.28mm line is what we use in tourny casting along with .31mm.

.28mm is typically 8 lb test mono

.31mm is typically 10 or 12 lb test mono.

Now what was the question? AHH nevermind :beer: :beer:


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

Jeff, just get Catman to teach ya how to cast a TLD-25 and shut up and fish


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

okimavich said:


> Why? No one has debunked my formula. That I can see.
> 
> The only problem I had was I started with the wrong diameters. But the formula still stands.
> 
> ...


The reel hold 350 yards of 15lb mono. Sufix doesn't make 15lb Tri, but I'm guessing it would be around .36mm or .37mm. The 20lb Tri is .43mm.


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