# Flourocarbon vs Mono!!



## roostertail (Jul 7, 2012)

Well its time we argued about this for a while again!  With spring fishing upon us soon we should all be busily tying rigs. 

Are you using Flouro or Mono??

I'll admit it I have doubts about if Flouro is actually invisible underwater.

Tonight I filled up the bathtub with water and threw in a mono rig and a flouro rig side by side to see if I could see a difference. If there is a difference at least in this situation it was very very small. If you stood over the rig so as to make a shadow over it you couldn't see either of them. If you had them both in the light you could see both of them. 

As for flouro sinking I had 5mm orange beads on both rigs and the bead actually appeared to lift the line,(where the beads were)several inches off the bottom but the hooks on both rigs were on the bottom.

I seriously wonder if flouro is worth $14 for 25yards vs $4 for 250 yards of mono..

What do you all think??


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## SmoothLures (Feb 13, 2008)

I don't think it can hurt, but I've seen the same thing as you. Stick a piece of flouro and mono in the water side by side and there isn't much of a noticeable difference. I use flouro for pompano, inshore rigs, and leaders for any kind of plugs from jigs to stingsilvers. I buy 20, 25, and 30 lb flouro and it covers everything I need it for. I use 30 lb mono for Spanish tree rigs due to the price of flouro, and 50 to 100 lb mono for bigger rigs as I don't think it matters.


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

if your fishing gin clear water for say big pomps flouro will catch you some more fish ... fishing in the wash for mullets with sand churned up probably doesn't matter


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## pysgod (Jan 9, 2013)

Mono over here,

We keep our flouro for the trout.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

surfchunker said:


> if your fishing gin clear water for say big pomps flouro will catch you some more fish ... fishing in the wash for mullets with sand churned up probably doesn't matter


 Don't get to fish for pompano very often in the summer,usually on the boat.. Although,after hearing from and seeing the results of many excellent fishermen down here when water is gin,have to say if I did get to fish for them it would be with flouro....


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## roostertail (Jul 7, 2012)

All I can say if its so much more invisible why don't my eyes show it? Surely a human has better eyes than a fish. I'm sure I opened another can of worms by sayin that. Lol! There a lots of people on here with much more expeirence than me i'm just trying to form an educated opinion!


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## turboandy (May 30, 2000)

On our charterboat we just use it for leaders when livelinning or trolling for Spanish.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

roostertail said:


> All I can say if its so much more invisible why don't my eyes show it? Surely a human has better eyes than a fish. I'm sure I opened another can of worms by sayin that. Lol! There a lots of people on here with much more expeirence than me i'm just trying to form an educated opinion!


 Kinda hard to see (with human eyes) what a fish does or doesn't see.. Only way you can really tell is to pit mono vs flouro in conditions that catch or don't catch.. From what I'm seeing from my buds down here that have a chance to see the difference,they lean to flouro.. Sightcasting,and bottomfishing for big fish,ain't seen any difference except in price,and abrassion resistence...


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## gilly21 (Feb 15, 2006)

IMHO the debate depends on the fish you are targeting. I was turned from the "theres no difference" crowd in 2003 while dragging bucktails in the Delaware bay on the rips. Story is as follows: I swapped a roofing job for a very well known up and coming charter captain for a couple guided trips. My crew was green on fishing and used the captains rigs. He had 20lb floro tied about 3' on braid. I had my own rod with 20lb mono. Everything else was identical, Bucktail, technique, tongue position, etc. After I watched the 9th fish come over the rail and I had not a bite, I gave in. First drift with floro hooked up. I saw first hand the difference and advantage of floro.

Now that being said, I do not use floro leader for drum, I do not use floro leader for sharks, and do not use floro leader for deep bottom fishing. All my double surf rigs for bait/smaller fish get 20 lb floro and will out catch over a mono leader every day of the week. Sting silver rod gets floro. Live bait rod gets floro. Kayak rods with jigs, mirro's, cork floats, topwater, etc. all get floro. One more advantage of floro over mono is the abrasion resistance. When the toads are chewing you can get a few of em on the same rig even after them nasty teeth chew em all to hell. 

Your going to hear form the guys who sware no difference or the cost isnt worth it....whatever. I am not here to tell you how to do it. I just want to share what has actually happened in my limited fishing experiences. YMMV.

Some quick math based on your numbers above.

25yrd-75'-$14

75/14=18.6 cents a foot

Average leader length is 3'
3X$.186=.558

OK so each leader costs you $0.56. If that is breaking your bank fishing you might want to consider a new hobby. Including lead, two hooks, leader, swivel, and snap your at maybe ~$1.50 each rig. 
My drum rigs run me ~$10. each once said and done. It is much more painful to watch one of those go flying into Davie Jones locker then a pomp/bait rig. Just saying.


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

I have spent plenty of days on the beach catching fish when everybody within sight was catching nothing - finally somebody will walk over and ask me why and I'll tell em Fluorocarbon line along with my faverite hook. Some will shrug their shoulders, grin and go back fishing - but I've had many that take in everything I say and head to the nearest tackle shop and buy Flouro and hooks, come back and start catching right away - of course, I show em how to tie my rig too. Most of the time they come back later, Thank me and some have seen me the next year and told me how it has greatly improved their fishing. There is no doubt in my feeble mind that Flourocarbon will outfish Mono 75% plus of the time. It's hard for me to figure out when the other 25% or less of the time is, so I use Flouro all the time - River


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

None of the above......#100 braid and Pinecones over here.....


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## Fishbreath (Nov 11, 2004)

AbuMike said:


> None of the above......#100 braid and Pinecones over here.....


LMAO!! Here we go....


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

Tying rigs with braid is definitely the way to go.


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## speckhunter80 (Oct 3, 2011)

Don't use floro leader material use regular floro fishing line. Less expensive and not as stiff.


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## roostertail (Jul 7, 2012)

Only problem with that is it is hard to find flouro line over 20lb test.


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## NCFishing (Dec 26, 2012)

fluoro, seagar, definetly when fishing around structure, it has saved me a lot of money in lures. Definetly not the berkley fluoro for main line, it is thick and stiff


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## roostertail (Jul 7, 2012)

But yes speckhunter I think its the same stuff. I emailed Seaguar a while back and asked them what the difference was between flouro line and leader material and I never got an answer.


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

I think Fluoro might sink a little better which is a good thing when targeting bottom feeders (which is what I target) but as far as catching with Fluoro when nobody else is having luck with mono is a bunch of BS in my humble opinion. I have had days when I was the only one up and down the beach catching fish but it sure as heck wasn't because of the material my rigs were tied with.......a few short years ago I fished beside an elderly black couple who tore the black drum and huge sea mullet up with walmart rigs, walmart fishing line, walmart fishing poles and reels and red wiggler fishing worms they dug up in their garden! I wasn't catching a thing because I was just a few yards too far out which is saying something because I fish CLOSE. They were right at your feet.

The hook at the end of whatever you tie your rig with is MADE OUT OF METAL. The fish don't seem to care if something yummy is attached to it. Tactics, Tactics, Tactics......learn to find fish and ambush them and you will save yourself a LOT OF MONEY!


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## roostertail (Jul 7, 2012)

DitS you and I think alike. Let me know some Saturday when you fish Fort Macon or anywhere on Emerald Isle sometime this summer if you ever need someone to fish with. I'd like to learn some of your tactics! :fishing:


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

DrumintheSuds - I could care less whether you believe me are not ---- with all due respect - but I do have the advantage of fishing everyday - working in a tackle shop ( I know what the good fisherman, Charter and Inshore fishing Boats buy) and I do a lot of testing. I'm not bragging, I'm just thankful and very fortunate to be able to do this --- Pure Flourocarbon works, the mixed or coated Flouro/Mono doesn't --- Let me know the next time you head to Fort Macon, I'm not so broke buying Fluorocarbon that I can't get there, I've fished all over that area before and we can compare fishing techniques. I'm not to proud, I'm still willin to learn ---- River


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

I must say until last year I was of the opinion that my mono rigs caught just as good as flouro rigs. While on vacation I did the test and have to say the flouro did work better for Pomps on Avalon. I caught Pomps when no one else was side by side using the same bait and I mean they were using fleas out of my bucket..Only difference was I was using my flouro rigs and they were using the off the shelf Sea Striker rigs.


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## BPReeds (Jan 11, 2013)

Im surprised by that, I'm not convinced yet, maybe I'll make up some flour rigs.....were you using the same floats and beads, the same colors?
Sometimes just a short move on the beach makes the difference....How many times have you seen that....


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

BPReeds said:


> Im surprised by that, I'm not convinced yet, maybe I'll make up some flour rigs.....were you using the same floats and beads, the same colors?
> Sometimes just a short move on the beach makes the difference....How many times have you seen that....


naked and beaded...


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

speckhunter80 said:


> Don't use floro leader material use regular floro fishing line. Less expensive and not as stiff.


me too


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

River said:


> DrumintheSuds - I could care less whether you believe me are not ---- with all due respect - but I do have the advantage of fishing everyday - working in a tackle shop ( I know what the good fisherman, Charter and Inshore fishing Boats buy) and I do a lot of testing. I'm not bragging, I'm just thankful and very fortunate to be able to do this --- Pure Flourocarbon works, the mixed or coated Flouro/Mono doesn't --- Let me know the next time you head to Fort Macon, I'm not so broke buying Fluorocarbon that I can't get there, I've fished all over that area before and we can compare fishing techniques. I'm not to proud, I'm still willin to learn ---- River


It isn't a matter of not believing you but I think you sometimes give a little too much credit to rigs and the material they are made from when it more than likely comes down to the fact that over the years you have learned a thing or two about finding them......People caught fish before Flourocarbon and if it went away I don't think you would stop catching fish.....It's as simple as that IMO


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

I don't think the debate is "catching" or "numbers". It's more about "catching quality in numbers" with these rigs. River you can please correct me if I missed on this.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

roostertail said:


> Only problem with that is it is hard to find flouro line over 20lb test.


What pound ya lookin for I have it at the shop over 200#'s...... JAM


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## hifu (Aug 3, 2006)

+1 for fluoro. I have been using fluoro for a few years now building rigs and using it for leaders. Last fall in one of the tourneys our area to fish was a 30 to 40 ft trough running almost the total length of our area to fish in. Water was crystal. After about 30 min of fishing with no one getting a bite, I started fishing the whole area. I was between 2 people, 12ft apart, and picked up my 1st fish. Within 20 min, I had 4 more on board, then nothing. Again checking the whole area and no fish, was back between my 2 partners, again I bought in another 4 fish, on the board. The team went off and started tying rigs like mine but the catching rate was 4 to 1, fluoro to mono. (the judge told us there were no points scored the day before here) Then the wildest thing happened, my rod doubled over and game on. A yearling drum had sucked the bait down, then spit it out 10 sec into the fight, or I should say came unbuttoned since I was using #2 circles. Made me a believer..........


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

AbuMike - You nailed it, Thanks - River


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## 9 rock (Nov 30, 2008)

I don't think just because you have caught more fish with floro than the guy next to you means anything. I have fished countless times next to someone using the exact rig line and bait and I'm catching and their not and I have seen it the other way although not often lol. 
I have done multiple tests from trolling , live lineing , casting lures to bottom fishing and have yet to see a definitive difference 

9


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

9 rock said:


> I don't think just because you have caught more fish with floro than the guy next to you means anything. I have fished countless times next to someone using the exact rig line and bait and I'm catching and their not and I have seen it the other way although not often lol.
> I have done multiple tests from trolling , live lineing , casting lures to bottom fishing and have yet to see a definitive difference
> 
> 9


I know exactly what you mean. Especially fishing the beach, if your not throwing into the hole, your not getting bit... Period. How many times drum fishing does one guy get bit over and over and everypones close together spiking? Or fishing for spanish or trout when one guy figures out the retrieve just right.....

But having said that, if its refractive properties make it that much less visible I could see how flouro could possibly offer up an advantage in certain gin conditions or with pressured fish. That being said, I never understood how if fish were that weary, they would bite something with hooks, terminal gear, eyes, etc. Far from me to knock it as bs though, I know the lengths I go to to, to try and have some advantage over the next guy, and if flouro does it physically or mentally any confidence helps.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

well this is beating a dead horse so........fish on, i'm going muckin.....


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

One more thing before I shut up, as Jam stated, we have Flouro up to 200 Lb Test where I work, the reason we have it is because we sell it, you'd be surprised by how many Boat Captains or their Mates sneak in the shop and buy that big Flouro when nobodys lookin and those Boats bring in fish repetitively, they don't spent 50 plus dollars a 25 yd. roll for nothin. Also lots of older Commercial fisherman hang out around us and not to long ago, early one morning after the boats had left, I asked one of the local Comm legends a Question - It started out like this: Big Sam, If you had nets made of ----- at this point he held his hand up and stopped me ----- then he said "If you're gonna ask me if nets were made of Flourocarbon would we catch more fish - I'd tell you we'd catch many many times over what we catch with Mono" he went on to tell me the difference between catchin with new nets vs old nets and how they'd take their nets home and clean em in Trash cans with dishwashing detergent to try to make em shiny clean again where the fish couldn't see em as good. Point is, fish can see and Flouro catches the bigger smarter fish, just like Deer get smarter with age/size, so do fish, again JMHO - plain to see that I'm a firm believer - I'm outta here too, River


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

Whatever works for you stick with it. The fish I target don't seem to be too smart in my favored fishing holes and haven't been for atleast the 2 generations of my dad and myself so as long as I am able to catch a nice helping of good quality fish to put in the freezer I'm gonna stick with what works for me.......I caught fish last year with my rigs, river rigs, mono tied, fluoro tied, beads and no beads. Caught em on fleas, shrimp, blue crab, mullet and fishbites on ingoing and outgoing tides.

The ONE THING that remained consistant was that I somehow managed to find the fish each and everytime whether they bit smart or were stubborn as hell......


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

DrumintheSuds - just PM me the next time you're goin to the Morehead area fishing, I'm retired and my schedule is wide Open. Dang I'd like to see someone that can catch Sea Mullet anytime on any Rig with any bait - Dang, thats amazing, I'd sure like to see that - I catch a lotta big fish but I must humble up and admit, I cannot do that !! River


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## Vinnx (Nov 11, 2012)

This thread has me interested and want to try Fluorocarbon..

Does anyone know who sells 100-200yds of 25lb-30lb Fluoro line for under 20$?? I can't find it anywhere and it seems these guys are withholding the higher test to sell it as "Leader" for significantly more money ><

I can find 250yds of 20lb Berkley Vanish 'Line' for 15$ 
30yds of 30lb Berkley Vanish 'Leader' is 10$.. or 83$ for 250yds worth, the price jump is ridiculous! 

Reason I want 30lb is because you never know when your Pompano/Mullet rig is gonna get hit by a Big Ray or 3ft Shark ><


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

River said:


> DrumintheSuds - just PM me the next time you're goin to the Morehead area fishing, I'm retired and my schedule is wide Open. Dang I'd like to see someone that can catch Sea Mullet anytime on any Rig with any bait - Dang, thats amazing, I'd sure like to see that - I catch a lotta big fish but I must humble up and admit, I cannot do that !! River


Wow river...I thought that rig of yours would catch em anytime and anywhere even when nobody else can buy one? Atleast that's what the promotion has led me to believe. I had a great year last year what can I say.


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## roostertail (Jul 7, 2012)

> Does anyone know who sells 100-200yds of 25lb-30lb Fluoro line for under 20$?? I can't find it anywhere and it seems these guys are withholding the higher test to sell it as "Leader" for significantly more money ><
> 
> I can find 250yds of 20lb Berkley Vanish 'Line' for 15$
> 30yds of 30lb Berkley Vanish 'Leader' is 10$.. or 83$ for 250yds worth, the price jump is ridiculous!
> ...


Yeah thats what we're all up against. Its a big marketing scam(dare I call it that) that they sell the leader material at the price they do. They think it 24kt gold plated. They CHEAPEST leader flouro leader material I have bought in 30lb test is the Trickfish brand. 50 yard spool for $14. But MOST of the time you will pay that for 25 yards.

Read this: http://www.southernsurffishing.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1724


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

DITS - I do appreciate all the talk and push my friends have given the RiverRig but trully there has been no official type promotion, I'm not smart enough to know how to promote anything - I'm just a retired old man thats let his hair grow, who set in "The Hook" one day and tied a rig and it caught fish. Then unlike most people I shared my experience with everyone that saw me catching fish and asked why, especially my friends and they're the one that called it the RiverRig. Then it got so popular somebody wanted to tie it, package it and sell it - I really have done nothing but tell my experiences after I tied it and thats basically all my friends have done is told their experiences - If thats promotion - then promotion is very easy when something works. I'm a different type fisherman and have been all my life, I love to see other people catch fish and I've always told MOST of my discoverys/secrets to anyone willing to listen. Thats why I like workin at a Tackle Shop, so all slammin each other aside, PM me sometime - I'd like to fish with you ---- River


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

River said:


> DITS - I do appreciate all the talk and push my friends have given the RiverRig but trully there has been no official type promotion, I'm not smart enough to know how to promote anything - I'm just a retired old man thats let his hair grow, who set in "The Hook" one day and tied a rig and it caught fish. Then unlike most people I shared my experience with everyone that saw me catching fish and asked why, especially my friends and they're the one that called it the RiverRig. Then it got so popular somebody wanted to tie it, package it and sell it - I really have done nothing but tell my experiences after I tied it and thats basically all my friends have done is told their experiences - If thats promotion - then promotion is very easy when something works. I'm a different type fisherman and have been all my life, I love to see other people catch fish and I've always told MOST of my discoverys/secrets to anyone willing to listen. Thats why I like workin at a Tackle Shop, so all slammin each other aside, PM me sometime - I'd like to fish with you ---- River


No worries river. I like your rig and have had success with a few vari ations of it for years Tied with mono. I just dont think any leader material or rig is magic on fish. Maybe we can make a trip happen sometime. Im sure you could teach me a thing or two ;-)


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## roostertail (Jul 7, 2012)

River if I come to hatteras this summer will you let me tag along? I'd like to learn a thing or two about mullet fishing. I'll admit i'm probably still skeptical of the whole flouro magic but in defense of River he isn't the one that started the River Rig thread. He did stand by his product the whole time but if whoever started it hadn't asked about it i'm not sure we'd all know about it. I've seen pics from DitS and I know he knows his stuff as well.


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

Let me know when you're comin roostertail, I'd be more than happy to have you fish with me ---- River


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## roostertail (Jul 7, 2012)

Thanks River, I'd like to make it there in April sometime.


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## Vinnx (Nov 11, 2012)

So I've been doing some digging.. and look what I found! 

*350YD Berkley Vanish 20LB/30LB/40LB for 30$* So far this is the ONLY 30LB Fluoro sold in high capacity spools for a fair price. Amazon I think has em for 25$
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Berkley-Vanish-Fishing-Line-350-yd-1-4-lb-Spool/21578857


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## Loner (Sep 9, 2009)

DrumintheSuds said:


> I think Fluoro might sink a little better which is a good thing when targeting bottom feeders (which is what I target) but as far as catching with Fluoro when nobody else is having luck with mono is a bunch of BS in my humble opinion. I have had days when I was the only one up and down the beach catching fish but it sure as heck wasn't because of the material my rigs were tied with.......a few short years ago I fished beside an elderly black couple who tore the black drum and huge sea mullet up with walmart rigs, walmart fishing line, walmart fishing poles and reels and red wiggler fishing worms they dug up in their garden! I wasn't catching a thing because I was just a few yards too far out which is saying something because I fish CLOSE. They were right at your feet.
> 
> The hook at the end of whatever you tie your rig with is MADE OUT OF METAL. The fish don't seem to care if something yummy is attached to it. Tactics, Tactics, Tactics......learn to find fish and ambush them and you will save yourself a LOT OF MONEY!


......same here as far as tearing em up and my "competetion" not getting a sniff...the DIFFERENCE was I WAS IN "THE SPOT"...U know the spot I spent hours at low tide scouting out.....


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

just don't feed him or you will never get rid of him 



River said:


> DITS - I do appreciate all the talk and push my friends have given the RiverRig but trully there has been no official type promotion, I'm not smart enough to know how to promote anything - I'm just a retired old man thats let his hair grow, who set in "The Hook" one day and tied a rig and it caught fish. Then unlike most people I shared my experience with everyone that saw me catching fish and asked why, especially my friends and they're the one that called it the RiverRig. Then it got so popular somebody wanted to tie it, package it and sell it - I really have done nothing but tell my experiences after I tied it and thats basically all my friends have done is told their experiences - If thats promotion - then promotion is very easy when something works. I'm a different type fisherman and have been all my life, I love to see other people catch fish and I've always told MOST of my discoverys/secrets to anyone willing to listen. Thats why I like workin at a Tackle Shop, so all slammin each other aside, PM me sometime - I'd like to fish with you ---- River


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

Actually we like it when River shows up we always catch a nice one about that time ... heck of a good luck charm


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

Loner said:


> ......same here as far as tearing em up and my "competetion" not getting a sniff...the DIFFERENCE was I WAS IN "THE SPOT"...U know the spot I spent hours at low tide scouting out.....


I think certain rigs might improve hook-up rates but I lend more credit to the hook and to a small extent; the rod, when it comes to that. I have yet to experience a rig that "calls to the fish" unless perhaps it had the right bait yodeling on the end of the shiny metal hook......LOL

I don't know how the old timers managed to whack em and stack em without high tech fishing leader.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Maybe you and Loner need to head on up this way then. Cause between River,and Susan don't really know who caught more citations than they did,up here anywho...


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

Drumdum said:


> Maybe you and Loner need to head on up this way then. Cause between River,and Susan don't really know who caught more citations than they did,up here anywho...


Oh I have no doubt!......But I am much more inclined to credit their abilities to catch quality fish to their "time on the beach" and knowledge aquired over the years.

Men and Women caught citation fish before the riverrig and fluorocarbon wouldn't you agree? I have known a few "mullet legends" myself over the years and they caught fish because they knew when, where and how to increase their odds. The best "I" ever knew fished with wire boom rigs and pre-made #2 eagle claw snells. Metal galour and cheap mono......

I'm not trying to argue with anybody here. Just giving credit where it is due.....KNOWLEDGE!


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

DrumintheSuds said:


> Oh I have no doubt!......But I am much more inclined to credit their abilities to catch quality fish to their "time on the beach" and knowledge aquired over the years.
> 
> Men and Women caught citation fish before the riverrig and fluorocarbon wouldn't you agree? I have known a few "mullet legends" myself over the years and they caught fish because they knew when, where and how to increase their odds. The best "I" ever knew fished with wire boom rigs and pre-made #2 eagle claw snells. Metal galour and cheap mono......
> 
> I'm not trying to argue with anybody here. Just giving credit where it is due.....KNOWLEDGE!


 I'm here to agree with EVERYTHING you said here.. BUT,would you not also agree that if there is an edge in doing something to help you catch more that you shouldn't try it?? More of a drum and cobia type,and have pretty good success..Although, I will be trying some flouro this year on the bucktails to compair year to year the numbers of refusals vs agressive fish chasing the jig down.. But that's just me...


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## bronzbck1 (Jun 13, 2007)

DrumintheSuds said:


> I'm not trying to argue with anybody here. Just giving credit where it is due.....KNOWLEDGE!


The thing is, people that have never even caught a mullet before are catching citations their one and only time out. Explain that?
It isn't knowledge, it is the store bought River Rig. I've seen it again and again Fact!
But back to what the thread is about. I wish everyone would use mono, it would make me look like a much better fisherman


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## Loner (Sep 9, 2009)

DrumintheSuds said:


> I think certain rigs might improve hook-up rates but I lend more credit to the hook and to a small extent; the rod, when it comes to that. I have yet to experience a rig that "calls to the fish" unless perhaps it had the right bait yodeling on the end of the shiny metal hook......LOL
> 
> I don't know how the old timers managed to whack em and stack em without high tech fishing leader.


....Lots more Fishys back then......


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## roostertail (Jul 7, 2012)

River Rig thread 2 or even 3. opcorn:


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

Drumdum said:


> I'm here to agree with EVERYTHING you said here.. BUT,would you not also agree that if there is an edge in doing something to help you catch more that you shouldn't try it?? More of a drum and cobia type,and have pretty good success..Although, I will be trying some flouro this year on the bucktails to compair year to year the numbers of refusals vs agressive fish chasing the jig down.. But that's just me...


I'm always looking for that edge so like any curious saltwater angler I try different things. I tried the riverrig last year tied with fluoro. I have been tying a mono version of it for several years......Did I see a difference? Nope......

Perhaps fluoro is the cats meow when it comes to leader shy critters; I don't know......But when it comes to fish that feed on the bottom I don't think it makes a difference


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

bronzbck1 said:


> The thing is, people that have never even caught a mullet before are catching citations their one and only time out. Explain that?
> It isn't knowledge, it is the store bought River Rig. I've seen it again and again Fact!
> But back to what the thread is about. I wish everyone would use mono, it would make me look like a much better fisherman


So what you are saying is that I can walk out on the beach, toss in a "store bought" riverrig and let the good times roll?......Well heck there aint no reason for me to aquire any more fishing knowledge then if the rig can call the fish from on high.


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

Oh god, not this again.


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

dudeondacouch said:


> Oh god, not this again.


I'm done with these topics. People tend to take things the wrong way so I think it's best
To just squash it as far as I'm concerned


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## sc_shark (Dec 2, 2012)

i have had some realy good luck with winter trout on florocarbon leader material. i have also used florcarbon hybrid line with similar results.. with reds and fish on the jetties and in dirty water i have had good luck with camo mono...

when i fish with floro leader material its more for its limp characteristics. the leader material seems to have less memory(40-60lb) tends to let the shrimp hang and move easier/more natural(this is usually on my top water/poppers/corks

when i fish floro line i tend to keep it as my bottom rig setup it dosnt have the limpness and usually without a decent weight/bait it tends to keep its coil.i have gotten600yd 40lb spool for 30bux... 

the camo mono ive had luck with but its usually in dirt water where it blends in.

most of my floro rigs are with hooks up to 5/0 circle. i go from 40lb floro straight to 130-200lb... the 130-200 is usually on 7/0 for sharks. yes i have used single strand and 7x7 construction coated cable.. but i have become a bigger fan of the floro over the last few years.

i have been on the beach surf fishing with floro and me on mono.. i had 0 bites... used their floro rigs and got into them decent. i have also had days where they will hit green mono and a red eagle claw hook and not care. it is what it is.. i dont mind spending the money on floro/leader/hybrid line it dosnt break the bank and sometimes haveing that mental im fishing with the good stuff goes a long way.


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## roostertail (Jul 7, 2012)

> when i fish with floro leader material its more for its limp characteristics. the leader material seems to have less memory(40-60lb) tends to let the shrimp hang and move easier/more natural(this is usually on my top water/poppers/corks


Could be because it comes in the big hoops vs. little spool. Don't know where else it would get memory from otherwise since you aren't reeling it onto your reel. 



> I'm done with these topics. People tend to take things the wrong way so I think it's best
> To just squash it as far as I'm concerned


Keep on. We all like it.


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## bronzbck1 (Jun 13, 2007)

DrumintheSuds said:


> So what you are saying is that I can walk out on the beach, toss in a "store bought" riverrig and let the good times roll?......Well heck there aint no reason for me to aquire any more fishing knowledge then if the rig can call the fish from on high.


Facts are facts but I'm sure you know more


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

bronzbck1 said:


> The thing is, people that have never even caught a mullet before are catching citations their *one and only time out*. Explain that?


That's called "lack of a control group"

Where are these people getting these magical rigs? If they're buying them at a bait and tackle establishment, and it's their "one and only time out", I would say it's a safe bet that they not only asked the "friendly" Buxton merchant about which rigs to use, but also which bait to use, and even where/when to fish. What makes the rig more important than the bait and the location? I can tell you what... nothing. Because it isn't. It isn't even close. So just STFU about it already.


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## jmadre (Jan 3, 2008)

bronzbck1 said:


> The thing is, people that have never even caught a mullet before are catching citations their one and only time out. Explain that?
> It isn't knowledge, it is the store bought River Rig. I've seen it again and again Fact!
> But back to what the thread is about. I wish everyone would use mono, it would make me look like a much better fisherman


Count my wife and me in this group. In spite of a lot of fishing for mullet and Pomps, we'd never caught a mullet bigger than 1 pound or a Pomp bigger than my hand. I was using hand-tied mono rigs using short snoods.

We started fishing the River Rig in early July of last year and put 7 citation mullet on the beach the rest of the summer. One day we landed a 1 3/4 lb. and 2.0 lb. mullet along with 7 more that were 1 1/4 lb. or larger. We had another five that were between 1 lb. and 1 1/4 lb. that day.

We also caught many Pomps after we started using the rig, the largest at 1 3/4 pounds. I also gave the River Rig to some friends and they both caught their first Pomps. My friend's girlfriend caught her first saltwater fish, a 1 1/4 lb. Pomp on a rig she cast herself.

I'll leave it up to you to decide whether all that proves anything or not, but it made up my mind.


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## jmadre (Jan 3, 2008)

dudeondacouch said:


> So just STFU about it already.


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

River Rigs are da BOMB ...


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

DrumintheSuds said:


> Oh I have no doubt!......But I am much more inclined to credit their abilities to catch quality fish to their "time on the beach" and knowledge aquired over the years.
> 
> Men and Women caught citation fish before the riverrig and fluorocarbon wouldn't you agree? I have known a few "mullet legends" myself over the years and they caught fish because they knew when, where and how to increase their odds. The best "I" ever knew fished with wire boom rigs and pre-made #2 eagle claw snells. Metal galour and cheap mono......
> 
> I'm not trying to argue with anybody here. Just giving credit where it is due.....KNOWLEDGE!


If abilities an knowledge play a role in catchin (which I do agree) why would you not do in rome as the romans do??? I have no stake in the River Rig, just Buds with River long before the Rig.. I sell SeaStriker dpr6's dpr7's and dpr8's due to their price point 1.79, I sell about 25 or so of those to 1 River Rig.. Folks are more apt to buy the less expensive product, but I will tell a group of folks try one... They end up comin back for more RR's the next day... They work, anything will catch but RR's they catch quality as well as quantity.. See it day in and day out....I know what I'll be usin this year for my First Citation Pompano..
So if your willing to agree that we know the spots, would we not know the Proper Rigs???? BTW Eagle Claws Suck, they rust after one use, chrome molly owners only way to go... Had to use some eagle claws while I waited for a delivery of owners, ended up throwing them away when the owners came in.. RUSTED in one use... 
Cheap Floro is just that, its not 100% floro, its coated and will not have the same affect...Watched a friend of mine, River knows the story, we were sittin there catchin and our friend was not.. I asked Jim what he was usin and he showed me the rig, it was a perfect tied River Rig, except for one thing, he was usin Trik Fish, and the package is a bit decievin, it says 100% Florocarbon in big letters and COATED in litllet letters.. He switched up the next day to Blue label Segaur, and I forget how many Citation Pomps and Mullets he caught.. 

We are honestly just tryin to help you'all catch more fish, its kinda, our jobs.... 

PS the Cannon Ball Rigs I used when I was Drum Fishin were made out of 80 pound Floro, no bead, I had found that 80 floro whould chaffe less then 130 mono.. 130 mono would last maybe 1 session, the 80 floro would last almost a week... 

JAM


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

The rig is good as I have mentioned many times.....If it's "magical" we should see a dramatic drop in threads asking how to read the water.....LOL

All you have to do is tie on a magic rig and viola!


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

JAM said:


> If abilities an knowledge play a role in catchin (which I do agree) why would you not do in rome as the romans do??? I have no stake in the River Rig, just Buds with River long before the Rig.. I sell SeaStriker dpr6's dpr7's and dpr8's due to their price point 1.79, I sell about 25 or so of those to 1 River Rig.. Folks are more apt to buy the less expensive product, but I will tell a group of folks try one... They end up comin back for more RR's the next day... They work, anything will catch but RR's they catch quality as well as quantity.. See it day in and day out....I know what I'll be usin this year for my First Citation Pompano..
> So if your willing to agree that we know the spots, would we not know the Proper Rigs???? BTW Eagle Claws Suck, they rust after one use, chrome molly owners only way to go... Had to use some eagle claws while I waited for a delivery of owners, ended up throwing them away when the owners came in.. RUSTED in one use...
> Cheap Floro is just that, its not 100% floro, its coated and will not have the same affect...Watched a friend of mine, River knows the story, we were sittin there catchin and our friend was not.. I asked Jim what he was usin and he showed me the rig, it was a perfect tied River Rig, except for one thing, he was usin Trik Fish, and the package is a bit decievin, it says 100% Florocarbon in big letters and COATED in litllet letters.. He switched up the next day to Blue label Segaur, and I forget how many Citation Pomps and Mullets he caught..
> 
> ...


I'm not disagreeing about whether or not it catches fish....NEVER HAVE. Lots of rigs catch quality fish ifn you find the quality fish to begin with. My best trip last year was right after the hurricane came through where myself, my dad and 3 other guys caught black drum, big sea mullet, and well over 100 rat puppies for 4 straight days. Caught them on homemade wire boom rigs, double drop mono rigs, fluoro tied riverrigs and mono tied riverrigs......They ALL CAUGHT FISH....Why? Because we were fishing where the fish were! Nothing magical about it


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

DrumintheSuds said:


> The rig is good as I have mentioned many times.....If it's "magical" we should see a dramatic drop in threads asking how to read the water.....LOL
> 
> All you have to do is tie on a magic rig and viola!




With all the Beach Closures in the Summer, there ain't no readin the beach anymore Cap, all the good spots are closed... Matter of Fact I bet they start closin stuff right after this storm.....
JAM


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

It's amazing how some pick and choose the parts of threads they want to find fault with while avoiding or missing the point all together. Again I say as I did before. This is about "quantity of quality numbers"


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

JAM said:


> With all the Beach Closures in the Summer, there ain't no readin the beach anymore Cap, all the good spots are closed... Matter of Fact I bet they start closin stuff right after this storm.....
> JAM


With that being the case I wouldn't let the libs get wind there is a magic rig out there that catches fish anywhere you throw it out.......


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

DrumintheSuds said:


> Caught them on riverrigs


He's out of the closet now


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

Thanks to all my friends and the fisherman I don't know for all the positive comments, Its a shame we have to go through this abuse to tell our experiences or the products we use, but thats the way it goes, it takes all kinds to run a world or a website, I reckon ---- Maybe I should have stayed outta this thread that roostertail started but I do have a Solid opinion on Mono vs Flouro. Finally ------ dudeonthecouch "I refuse to STFU" --- River


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

River said:


> Thanks to all my friends and the fisherman I don't know for all the positive comments, Its a shame we have to go through this abuse to tell our experiences or the products we use, but thats the way it goes, it takes all kinds to run a world or a website, I reckon ---- Maybe I should have stayed outta this thread that roostertail started but I do have a Solid opinion on Mono vs Flouro. Finally ------ dudeonthecouch "I refuse to STFU" --- River


Opinions are good.....They help build knowledge


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## jmadre (Jan 3, 2008)

River Rigs are not magic, but they work great. My experience shows they work better than what I was using before.

Fluorocarbon is not magic either, but I'll take every advantage I can get.


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

The truth in any method will be the consistency of the results. If something works great one year, it's off to a good start. two or three in a row and we may have something.


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

Jmadre's correct, there is nothin Magical about the RiverRig and I've never said there was - but there is also nothing Magical about 4 people catchin 100 undersized Pups in a day - them things was thick everywhere last Summer, Fall and on into the Winter, we caught em till we got tired of catchin em, two at a time lots a times, they were aggravateing but we still released em with luv cause they gonna grow up and be slots, yearlings and Citations. Now what is Magical - is SurfChunker catchin a fish everytime I pull up - Thats real Magic! When we fish together DrumintheSuds, I'll might tell you that secret - Ye Ha, River


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

River said:


> Jmadre's correct, there is nothin Magical about the RiverRig and I've never said there was - but there is also nothing Magical about 4 people catchin 100 undersized Pups in a day - them things was thick everywhere last Summer, Fall and on into the Winter, we caught em till we got tired of catchin em, two at a time lots a times, they were aggravateing but we still released em with luv cause they gonna grow up and be slots, yearlings and Citations. Now what is Magical - is SurfChunker catchin a fish everytime I pull up - Thats real Magic! When we fish together DrumintheSuds, I'll might tell you that secret - Ye Ha, River


You need to wander down to Portsmouth Island sometime.....Be glad to have ya!


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## roostertail (Jul 7, 2012)

> I asked Jim what he was usin and he showed me the rig, it was a perfect tied River Rig, except for one thing, he was usin Trik Fish, and the package is a bit decievin, it says 100% Florocarbon in big letters and COATED in litllet letters.. He switched up the next day to Blue label Segaur, and I forget how many Citation Pomps and Mullets he caught..


The only small writing I can find on my Trikfish Flourocarbon spool says _Made in Europe_


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

roostertail, What Jim had was a larger Roll designed for Main line, Trikfish does make real Flouro (I think) but with that being said, I have seen some large rolls from Cabelas and a few other places that say 100% Flouro and don't have any fine print but were definitely not pure Flouro. I've did a little research and line manufacturers are mixing/coating Mono with Flouro to try and duplicate a clear Mono type line to compete with Braid as your main line, some people - like me don't like Braid but we do like the sensitivity of Braid so the MFG's or trying to use this mix to limit stretch so Mono is more sensitive and create a market from people like me. I have tryed it on my Flounder Rod and the problem I've found is it has to much memory like Flouro - I think thats a lot of peoples problem when they say Flouro tied Rigs don't help catch fish, they tryed the cheap mixed stuff and it is no different than pure Mono when it comes to leader material - I tell people - just remember, the good Flouro comes in small 25 yd rolls(Hi Seas has a 50 yd roll and Sufix makes a 110 yd Roll) and it ain't cheap - again JMHO, River


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## bronzbck1 (Jun 13, 2007)

dudeondacouch said:


> That's called "lack of a control group"
> 
> Where are these people getting these magical rigs? If they're buying them at a bait and tackle establishment, and it's their "one and only time out", I would say it's a safe bet that they not only asked the "friendly" Buxton merchant about which rigs to use, but also which bait to use, and even where/when to fish. What makes the rig more important than the bait and the location? I can tell you what... nothing. Because it isn't. It isn't even close. So just STFU about it already.


This is a prime example of one of the haters that doesn't want to see someone be successful. I'm sure your also one of the ones that already tied the rig and you taught River how to do it. Join the line the list is long and next time your in the area with your worldly travels be sure you look me up!


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## HStew (Jan 8, 2009)

I do not know what Eagle Claw hooks Jam is refering to in post #66 but...
Although Eagle Claw hooks are not the only brand name I have used, I have to say I have never had any rust issues with either their L142 nickel kahle or their L197 sea guard. 
P.S. They work real good with flouro. too.


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## jmadre (Jan 3, 2008)

HStew said:


> I do not know what Eagle Claw hooks Jam is refering to in post #66 but...
> Although Eagle Claw hooks are not the only brand name I have used, I have to say I have never had any rust issues with either their L142 nickel kahle or their L197 sea guard.
> P.S. They work real good with flouro. too.


I'm not sure the number, but I've had the same rusting experience with Eagle Claw gold Kahle hooks. I've noticed them rusting while I'm still fishing with them for the first day. They point also seems to get dull quickly.

I'll have to try the L142's to see if they work better for me. I've been using Owner Mutu Lights and Gamakatsu Octopus and having good luck with them.


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## jmadre (Jan 3, 2008)

River said:


> but there is also nothing Magical about 4 people catchin 100 undersized Pups in a day -


Especially right after a hurricane has passed.


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

bronzbck1 said:


> This is a prime example of one of the haters that doesn't want to see someone be successful. I'm sure your also one of the ones that already tied the rig and you taught River how to do it. Join the line the list is long and next time your in the area with your worldly travels be sure you look me up!


I've never tied one, and I don't know how to tie one. I wasn't one of those in the first thread that claimed to "already do that."

But telling people that they have to buy a certain rig or they won't catch fish is flat out wrong. Adverts belong in the site supporters forum, or the marketplace. I will gladly post pics of my rigs, or specifics and how-to's, for any that want to know. I have no issues with someone trying to be successful, and I'm not a "hater." If I was, I would've bought one long ago, and posted pics of it. But that would be wrong, and rude as hell to boot. That being said, telling people that alternatives (like tying their own rigs) won't work is just as wrong, and simply untrue.

I would look you up, but I doubt I'll ever be down Hatteras way again. Which is kinda sad, because I want an apple ugly.


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

HStew said:


> I do not know what Eagle Claw hooks Jam is refering to in post #66 but...
> Although Eagle Claw hooks are not the only brand name I have used, I have to say I have never had any rust issues with either their L142 nickel kahle or their L197 sea guard.
> P.S. They work real good with flouro. too.


His response was to my post regarding the cheapo pre-made #2 longshank bronze snells (Eagle Claw). They don't last long at all but they cost less and are sticky sharp. The legend I often refer to in some of my post used them with the wire boom rigs he made. How he caught fish without expensive leader material and high dollar hooks was trully amazing but man did he put some big sea mullet and pompano on the beach


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## bronzbck1 (Jun 13, 2007)

dudeondacouch said:


> I've never tied one, and I don't know how to tie one. I wasn't one of those in the first thread that claimed to "already do that."
> 
> But telling people that they have to buy a certain rig or they won't catch fish is flat out wrong. Telling people that alternatives (like tying their own rigs) won't work is just as wrong, and simply untrue.


And where did that come from? No one has ever said that. They have just said how good they work. Just make things up it makes you look good


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

Don't know where ya'll gettin all you info but nobody ever said that you wouldn't catch fish if you didn't use expensive leader and hooks, first of all - I'm 64 yrs old and my Dad and his three brothers dragged me along fishin when I was just old enough to walk, matter of fact - my Mother always said I took my first steps in the Crystal Pier Pierhouse at Wrightville Beach in 1949. My Dad and his 3 brothers were avid Sheephead fisherman and Plankers, they made their own Oak Rods (I still got two of em), they made their own wire Rigs and my Dad made the first bulky Sand Flea rake I ever saw, so it ain't like I started fishin yesterday and never saw a mono Rig. I used Mono Rigs back in the day and caught plenty of fish and believe you me, the Mono I used was cheap - my Dad could squeeze a penny. Now when I got a job, I started buyin better stuff but I never used Flouro till 2000 when I had a bunch of time off and was fishin with my Uncle (Dads youngest Brother) on the now tore down Iron Steamer Pier at Pine Knoll Shores. So I spent plenty of years catching fish using Mono and cheap Rigs but I sure do wish my Dad and Uncles were still around today so I could get em to try Flouro cause I do believe they would catch a few more fish and a better quality of fish. Now DudeontheCouch, I have never said and never would even think of sayin that you can't tie the RiverRig just as good, if not better than the production RiverRig, I didn't feel it was to my advantage to post a diagram of it here but I have shown hundreds of fisherman how to tie it and I've pushed for fisherman to tie their own, I'm not tight lipped - I tell everyone how to tie it cause there are so many different ways to personalize it to your type fishing. Matter of Fact, toward the end of this month, I'll be holding a session or Seminar that benefits the NCBBA where I'll show everyone how to tie the Rig and the many different ways you can tie it along with much more of my ******* jeberish. You two guys are great fisherman I'm sure but you live in La La land and dream stuff up I do believe! IF somewhere along the line, I even insinuated that you wouldn't catch fish if you weren't using the RiverRig are that you couldn't tie it as good are better than the Production RiverRig, I do apoligize ---- The Production RiverRig is for the once, twice or three times a year fisherman who don't tie their own Rigs - Sorry for the long write --- River


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

dudeondacouch said:


> Adverts belong in the site supporters forum, or the marketplace.



I am seeing a lot more of this one the site, which is irritating, because other sponsors pay to play and other remain quiet about their prostaff/sponsorships/personal involvement with things and either push product through what appears to be "personal"opinion or advert/sell in other ways. At least River and a few other guys have the dignity to awknowledge what their involvement is, where their interests are, but still offer up actual personal advice and opinion. The same can't be said for a lot of other folks.

Not really that I am trying to call people out per say, it's ya'lls lives, ya'll do whatever you feel is right and I am friends with a bunch of ya'll, but integrity won't allow me to not call a spade a spade.


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## firemunkee (Apr 6, 2012)

Some more food for thought from people doing lab type tests. This is more controlled than going out fishin in the field, but it doesn't provide data on catch rate.

http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbon2.html
http://www.snaggedline.com/showthre...t-bought-Fluorocarbon-leader-don-t-buy-it-yet


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

Not your fault River but there are a few people here who go a bit overboard with the magical aspects of what is indeed a good rig that is made out of a material that IN SOME PEOPLE'S PERFECTLY WELL INFORMED OPINION isn't worth the hype or cost......I don't think anybody directly targets you or your rig just some of the overblown aspects associated with it unfortunately.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Pot meet Kettle................


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

Good Info firemunkee, I do believe they are testing Flouro mix designed for you main line in the tackletour site, it was Berkley Vanish that I tryed on my Flounder Rod and it seemed to have to much memory and I backlashed a lot, but thats doesn't match up with what they say. I used it on a Daiwa Zillion baitcaster and I could never get used to it or that fast little Reel either, probably woulda worked better on a Spinner - again, correct me if I'm wrong - River


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

By the way - I do appreciate Pier and Surf for allowin me to run my mouth on here and if the RiverRig ever produces me enough dollars that I can spare a few for advertizing, I certainly will but it hasn't happened yet. Next, I never have brought up the RiverRig, somebody else throws it out there - I never started a thread about it, I just spend my time writing and defending it, because of the success my friends and I have had with it. Matter of fact, when the first thread was started, I was told by friends and hadn't been on Pier and Surf for years, I had forgot my password and had to send Shooter (are SandFlea) a message to give me a password so I could continue to use my name "River", they responded right away. Remember roostertail started this Thread, not me --- I just stated my opinions and it was on from there, where I picked up all these haters, I'll never know -- River


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

Something else I am curious of regarding "The Rig"........for those touting it's mystical wonders for first time fishermen. Which rig do you recommend to these newcomers? Orange bead? Pink bead? Green Bead? Yellow bead? No bead?.....I thought I read somewhere that there are numerous varieties now so which one is the guarenteed can't miss no matter what option?


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## tomsurles (Jan 16, 2012)

River, you gotta have haters..it lets you know you're doing something right!!!BTW I have purchased some of your rigs and can't wait to get them wet next month in Frisco!


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

green bead for mullet ...orange for pomps


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

surfchunker said:


> green bead for mullet ...orange for pomps



LOl......A rig with this much power shouldn't even need a bead. It calls to them 

God forbid if they invent a flourocarbon beed and hook. There wont be a fish left on earth


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

dudeondacouch said:


> So just STFU about it already.


So why don't you take a bit of your own advice........You have made your point, you don't believe in them or don't like um. Either way "just STFU about it already"


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

AbuMike said:


> So why don't you take a bit of your own advice........You have made your point, you don't believe in them or don't like um. Either way "just STFU about it already"


Really if you don't want to use them don't and do your own thing but just let it go DUDE


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

DrumintheSuds, I think you're still jerkin my chain but I'll bite - first of all, as the great fisherman you are, I'm sure you realize there are no surefire methods to anything, muchless fishing. I was just down at Frisco Pier walkin my pup and believe me, the RiverRig will not work now, the sea is very angry. But I will try and sensibly answer your question useing the past year as an example. From the first steady bite in March until sometime in July or early August, I recomment the Naked Rig, no beads and I'm beginning to find out reasons for that due to the input from so many good fisherman up and down the coast, but for the time being - I'll hold that theory to myself because I'm really not convinced yet. Now from Mid summer thru December, I suggest the Orange Bead but the Green bead does well too, also after SusanOBX started the Pink Bead - I'm not so sure it won't produce better than either one but it hasn't been tested as much as the other colors yet. We do have a lot of Rigs out with a lot of bead colors, many people have tryed different colors and swear by em - yellow has received a lot of good comment, so has mingled purple(we call Coquina). From my experience testing beads, way before the Rig came under production - I think Red Drum like Red, Black Drum also seem to faver Orange or Red, Sheephead from other fisherman and my experience faver Yellow. When new fisherman come in the shop, I try my best to help em catch fish but I don't push my Rig on em, if they ask about price difference, I will tell them why - The RiverRig is Hand tied here on Hatteras Island with the highest grade Flourocarbon and hooks possible --- normally as Jam stated they grab a handful of cheap Rigs and one or two RiverRigs but over the next couple days most of em show back up with a fishtale and buy more RiverRigs. One tale, I'll tell is - this very nice middle aged couple came in one day, the lady looked at me and stated that her husband fished freshwater, had several boats and was a well known fisherman in his area but had never caught a nice fish in Saltwater, would I help him out. Naturally I put him on a RiverRig, told her how to handcatch some Fleas, he had his own equipment and out the door they went grinning like I had handed em a line. The next morning, I saw em coming back in and they had a serious mad looks on their face, they stepped up to the counter and the lady, trying to look mad stated "We only caught one fish" - I begin to back pedal and tell em theres no sure thing to fishin - when they both busted out laughing and said "It was a 3 lb 2 oz Citation Pompano and we are thrilled to death", the gentleman turned and grabbed 4 more Rigs and shook my hand Thanking me - Now similar situation happened a lot but that ones special in my old mind for some reason, I dearly love to help people catch fish - River


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

Not directed at you River ......I have told you time and again the rig is well designed and works so don't take it personal. Most of my wise cracking on this isn't due to me being some great fishermen who knows everything there is to know. Just having a laugh at some of the ridiculous comments thrown about in regards to something you just happen to be apart of.

If there is anything that chaps my hide about some of the comments thrown about BY OTHERS REGARDING YOUR RIG it's that it seems to be a slap in the face to the true art of dialing in on and catching a mess of quality fish. I fished it last year and had other people fish it as well. It caught fish just like other well tied rigs.....nothing special. If it outfishes everything on Hatteras good on ya......but on PI and everywhere else "I" fished it; it was just another rig. If I were to give any special thumbs up to the rig it's that you put quality hooks on it.......you can make any average store bought rig a winner with good hooks and a few adjustments to length and spacing of the traces. My version of your rig was taken from a seastriker bottom rig and I just flip flopped the shorter trace to the top and longer trace to the bottom and took away the sinker clip similar to your rig.

Truth be known I still think it would be great to hit the beach with you, fish and talk shop away from some of the BS that occurs on these rig topics. And if it reflects poorly on something that you have thrown your heart and soul into I'll stop responding to the folks who mess their britches over it trying to help you out.


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

see there is here you are wrong we aint trying to help River out we are saying this rig works and helping others with it ... River will never get rich with it unless some mega outfit buy's the rights from him but doubt that will happen they will just copy it and say River who ... We've caught a better quality of fish using them ... before it was maybe one quality fish per week and now it's at least one quality fish every day ... I don't always use flouro on all rigs but do tie it the same but with mono on rigs that I know will be in the dirty water in or near the wash and saving some money ... but if I'm fishing in the clearer water it will be one tied with flouro .... Flouro just works better in clear water plain and simple and if you don't like that statement well just logoff the website then


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

everyone needs to relax.


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## roostertail (Jul 7, 2012)

The design obviously isn't brand new... http://www.southernsurffishing.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28 But the thing that I see that may give a river rig its advantage is when you hold it in your hands there is almost nothing there. I know the link I posted has differences but its not too far off. When you hold a Wal Mart rig with all the snaps and swivels you know you are holding a RIG Lol!!


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## bronzbck1 (Jun 13, 2007)

surfchunker said:


> see there is here you are wrong we aint trying to help River out we are saying this rig works and helping others with it ... River will never get rich with it unless some mega outfit buy's the rights from him but doubt that will happen they will just copy it and say River who ... We've caught a better quality of fish using them ... before it was maybe one quality fish per week and now it's at least one quality fish every day ... I don't always use flouro on all rigs but do tie it the same but with mono on rigs that I know will be in the dirty water in or near the wash and saving some money ... but if I'm fishing in the clearer water it will be one tied with flouro .... Flouro just works better in clear water plain and simple and if you don't like that statement well just logoff the website then


Exactly well said Surfchunker


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

DrumintheSuds - You don't need to thumbs up me on anything and I don't have my heart and soul poured into nothin, like Surfchunker said, I'll never get much money off the RiverRig - so Slam it, Bash it ---- do or say whatever you want to about it. I've received enough Thanks from just hangin around and fishin everyday. I've seen young kids with big smiles on their faces, adults with smiles on their faces and I've seen so many beautiful sunsets when the fish were biting that it would blow your mind ---- and on top of all that several Saturday nights ago, I went up to the Anglers Club in Buxton at 7:30 to see the new Superintendent of the Park speak, the meal was over when I got there and the chairs were full so I set down in a chair up against the wall behind everybody, the Club President was still speaking as I looked over the crowd of people and realized what a great group of surf fisherman were in this room, a lot of gray hair with heads full of fishing knowledge and in my mind some of the best fisherman in the world, most of these people pulled up their roots from somewhere to come here to fish - true fisherman! On the right side I saw Bob, he's in his 70's and whips my rear end about ever year with Pompano or Sea Mullet, you'll see that white Chevy truck with the PVC water tank on top about everyday headed to the beach, what a fisherman he is. On the other side I saw 86 yr old beautiful blue eyed Christine, what a sweetheart - if you look back years, years and years on the wall, you gonna see her name every year and lots of years you'll see it twice maybe three times a couple years and shes still fishin and got 2 plaques this year - fishes by herself, like me in her Jeep Cherokee, a true Icon in fishing - my hero. The Superintendent talked and when the thing was over I went over to the other side to throw some Trash away and was talkin to my friend Wayne and a guy named Frank that owns a Tackle shop when Bob came walkin up, grabbed my hand and said "Hey River, me and Barbara's headed down to Padre Island for the next couple weeks and I got a hold stack of RiverRigs I'm takin with me, I'm gonna wear em out", I couldn't hardly believe my ear, Bob usin my Rig - I quickly wished him luck, a safe trip and to let me know how he did. Then I felt a hug and it was my Blue eyed hero Christine and she was tellin me to tie her some more RiverRigs, the fish are gonna be bitin before long River, I need some more Rigs. You see, her fingers don't work like they used to and she loves my Rigs so I love to tie em for her. So you see DrumintheSuds, I don't need your blessing - I have been very very blessed - River


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## yerbyray (May 18, 2010)

Wait a minute......you mean to tell me using different rigs makes a difference instead of the sand mallets and fish horn?


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## sunburntspike (Oct 4, 2010)

dammit yerby!!!...now i gotta clean off my monitor


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## BubbaHoTep (May 26, 2008)

AbuMike said:


> . . . .Pinecones over here. . . .


This. Launched with a longbow, of course. No inflated blowfish, no Barry White weirdness, no braid shock. No $hit.


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

WE got Soundside floodin down here, seen a Blackback run thru the back yard - won't be nobody doin no fishin here for a few days - Crazyest weather I ever seen --River


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

I seen where Manteo and Collington Road are flooded


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## roostertail (Jul 7, 2012)

Thats just crazy! You guys on the OBX have had it rough! Driving a Chevy 3500 dump truck down the road today was an expierence in itself. Not sure how driving an 18 wheeler would have felt!...


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## bronzbck1 (Jun 13, 2007)

Frisco, Avon, Waves, Pea Island are also flooded. The wind has come around now so we can get hit ocean side. 12 is closed


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

Things are lookin better now, but the winds still Blowin, the water has went down a little but I'm still penned in with Saltwater - I'm hearing the road is open and the dunes were not destroyed at the "s" curves, they took a beating though - I think the surf breached the road just North of Buxton too - It wasn't a nice night but I'm sure a lotta people up North had it worse by far than us -- River


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

River said:


> DrumintheSuds - You don't need to thumbs up me on anything and I don't have my heart and soul poured into nothin, like Surfchunker said, I'll never get much money off the RiverRig - so Slam it, Bash it ---- do or say whatever you want to about it. I've received enough Thanks from just hangin around and fishin everyday. I've seen young kids with big smiles on their faces, adults with smiles on their faces and I've seen so many beautiful sunsets when the fish were biting that it would blow your mind ---- and on top of all that several Saturday nights ago, I went up to the Anglers Club in Buxton at 7:30 to see the new Superintendent of the Park speak, the meal was over when I got there and the chairs were full so I set down in a chair up against the wall behind everybody, the Club President was still speaking as I looked over the crowd of people and realized what a great group of surf fisherman were in this room, a lot of gray hair with heads full of fishing knowledge and in my mind some of the best fisherman in the world, most of these people pulled up their roots from somewhere to come here to fish - true fisherman! On the right side I saw Bob, he's in his 70's and whips my rear end about ever year with Pompano or Sea Mullet, you'll see that white Chevy truck with the PVC water tank on top about everyday headed to the beach, what a fisherman he is. On the other side I saw 86 yr old beautiful blue eyed Christine, what a sweetheart - if you look back years, years and years on the wall, you gonna see her name every year and lots of years you'll see it twice maybe three times a couple years and shes still fishin and got 2 plaques this year - fishes by herself, like me in her Jeep Cherokee, a true Icon in fishing - my hero. The Superintendent talked and when the thing was over I went over to the other side to throw some Trash away and was talkin to my friend Wayne and a guy named Frank that owns a Tackle shop when Bob came walkin up, grabbed my hand and said "Hey River, me and Barbara's headed down to Padre Island for the next couple weeks and I got a hold stack of RiverRigs I'm takin with me, I'm gonna wear em out", I couldn't hardly believe my ear, Bob usin my Rig - I quickly wished him luck, a safe trip and to let me know how he did. Then I felt a hug and it was my Blue eyed hero Christine and she was tellin me to tie her some more RiverRigs, the fish are gonna be bitin before long River, I need some more Rigs. You see, her fingers don't work like they used to and she loves my Rigs so I love to tie em for her. So you see DrumintheSuds, I don't need your blessing - I have been very very blessed - River


Very well said my friend.. 
JAM


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## jmadre (Jan 3, 2008)

surfchunker said:


> Really if you don't want to use them don't and do your own thing but just let it go DUDE


Seriously, and please quit claiming that people are saying they're 'magical' or 'mystical'. Nobody's saying that, they're merely stating their experiences using the rig. I'm sorry if my experience doesn't match your bias.


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## tomsurles (Jan 16, 2012)

steer clear of this stuff!!


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## dudeondacouch (Apr 6, 2010)

Nevermind. Don't bother learning your knots or how to tie your own rigs. It's pointless; they won't be any good.


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

Yet ANOTHER dead horse thread. Bottom line is use what works for you.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

dudeondacouch said:


> Nevermind. Don't bother learning your knots or how to tie your own rigs. It's pointless; they won't be any good.


Sure they will, long as you tie um with Seaguar Blue Label Fluoro, pink or purple glow beads and Owner hooks.......


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## jmadre (Jan 3, 2008)

RuddeDogg said:


> Yet ANOTHER dead horse thread. Bottom line is use what works for you.


But don't tell anybody that it works for you or you'll be accused of rig worship.:beer:


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## jmadre (Jan 3, 2008)

AbuMike said:


> Sure they will, long as you tie um with Seaguar Blue Label Fluoro, pink or purple glow beads and Owner hooks.......


Stren, cherry Life Savers, and Eagle Claw J's will outfish those.:fishing:


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

RuddeDogg - I agree with you completely, if it works - it don't need fixin, besides - I'm tired of tellin storys and I'm sure ya'll tired of seein em but like you and everyone else - I got a bunch more ---- by the way, are you the one that Kayaked with Rob off Cape Point, if so - I know you got some real tales - River


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## jmadre (Jan 3, 2008)

roostertail said:


> Tonight I filled up the bathtub with water and threw in a mono rig and a flouro rig side by side to see if I could see a difference. If there is a difference at least in this situation it was very very small. If you stood over the rig so as to make a shadow over it you couldn't see either of them. If you had them both in the light you could see both of them.


Have you tried dropping each into a glass and looking at them from the side? Just wondering if that would make a difference.


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## roostertail (Jul 7, 2012)

Yes. Not a lot of difference to human eyes but i'm sure thats due to me using the wrong brand of flouro.


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## jmadre (Jan 3, 2008)

roostertail said:


> Yes. Not a lot of difference to human eyes but i'm sure thats due to me using the wrong brand of flouro.


I've got some Seaguar Blue label, Cabela's leader made by Seaguar, and some Hi-Seas, all supposed to be 100% flouro. I'll see if I can remember to test them against some mono when I get home.


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

Put em both up against a Solid black background in a dark room and shine a Flashlight thru em, Mono should cast a clearer shadow than Flourocarbon, remember Mono reflects light - flourocarbon doesn't - a good friend of mine called Wheat once told me - think of Mono as the shirt you're wearing and Flourocarbon as the windshield in you truck - one allows the light to shine thru, the other reflects light. I've never done it but I've seen it done - River


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## jmadre (Jan 3, 2008)

I did find this video comparing mono and Vanish underwater.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

jmadre said:


> I did find this video comparing mono and Vanish underwater.


Well there ya go......Fluoro, hotdogs and J hooks.......Well that proves it, I'm sold.....


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

There is one glaring thing from that video that I noticed and it's the shiny HOOK......Fish apparently are smart enough to avoid mono fishing line but too stupid to avoid a shiny hook?.....LOL


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## roostertail (Jul 7, 2012)

In a busy bass lake where some bass are probably caught and released 3 or more times in their lifetime I can see where a fish would learn to avoid a snack with a something funny connected to it but how many sea mullet in the ocean have ever been caught and released? On top of that I doubt a Sea Mullet has the brains of a Largemouth. What I am asking is where did Sea Mullet learn that line was a bad thing? Evolution?? LoL!!No seriously I do believe that less is more when fishing with rigs its just food for thought......:fishing:


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

roostertail said:


> In a busy bass lake where some bass are probably caught and released 3 or more times in their lifetime I can see where a fish would learn to avoid a snack with a something funny connected to it but how many sea mullet in the ocean have ever been caught and released? On top of that I doubt a Sea Mullet has the brains of a Largemouth. What I am asking is where did Sea Mullet learn that line was a bad thing? Evolution?? LoL!!No seriously I do believe that less is more when fishing with rigs its just food for thought......:fishing:


My thoughts as well!


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## jmadre (Jan 3, 2008)

DrumintheSuds said:


> There is one glaring thing from that video that I noticed and it's the shiny HOOK......Fish apparently are smart enough to avoid mono fishing line but too stupid to avoid a shiny hook?.....LOL


Most fish are programmed to eat shiny things. Why would they avoid a shiny hook?


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

jmadre said:


> Most fish are programmed to eat shiny things. Why would they avoid a shiny hook?


fine, i give up. I putting wireline on all my reels and steel leaders on all my rigs especially for spanish


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

jmadre said:


> Most fish are programmed to eat shiny things. Why would they avoid a shiny hook?


Of course.....and evolution teaches them to avoid mono fishing rigs as well......LOL


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

Thats the reason I prefer the #6 Owner circle, I can just about bury one up in a Sand Flea, especially when I use two Fleas, the point will be sticking out of the shell on one Flea but I can just about make a #6 Owner Circle disappear when I use 2 Fleas. You're definitely right, just where in the world would the bigger Sea Mullet run into Mono or any line and get shy of it ??? - River


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## roostertail (Jul 7, 2012)

I thought #4 was your go to. A #6 is Tiny! If you read on some of the Florida forums they will use 2/0 and 3/0 for whiting!....


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

Just tellin you what I use most, you can believe it or not, I know what everybody else uses, I see it all the time. I've caught up to 32 in. Drum on that hook and I can't even imagine how many Rays or Skates I've broke off and that little hook stays put and doesn't bend, I do use the 4 sometime and the 2 sometime but 6 is my faverite. We sell the Rigs in #6 #4 and #2. The larger double hook Drum Rig comes in 2/0, 3/0 and 4/0 ---- River


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

for mullet and pomps if I could only have one size I'm like River it would be a #6 all day long either in a Mutu Circle or a Mutu Khale


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## jmadre (Jan 3, 2008)

DrumintheSuds said:


> Of course.....and evolution teaches them to avoid mono fishing rigs as well......LOL


So you're not going to answer the question? It was about hooks, not leaders or line, either wire, mono, or fluoro.

The question was/is "Why would a fish avoid a shiny hook when they used to eating shiny fish and are often caught after biting shiny spoons and lures?"


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## sc_shark (Dec 2, 2012)

well i just ordered 600 yds of floro carbon.. 40 and 60lb.. looks like ill be mono free on leaders..


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## jmadre (Jan 3, 2008)

River said:


> Thats the reason I prefer the #6 Owner circle, I can just about bury one up in a Sand Flea, especially when I use two Fleas, the point will be sticking out of the shell on one Flea but I can just about make a #6 Owner Circle disappear when I use 2 Fleas. You're definitely right, just where in the world would the bigger Sea Mullet run into Mono or any line and get shy of it ??? - River


I like the #4 Gamakatsu Octopus Circle for the same reason. I think the shape of it fits a sand flea even better than the Owner Mutu. It sure does look tiny piercing a big mullet's lip, but it holds just fine.


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

well with the way they eat, circles or kahles or j's almost for the same manner, with longer snoods off your main, by the time you see a bite or a bow the fish is already hooked.


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

so you either definatley hook fish or don't.... but there stands reason to believe you would also miss short strikes, or fish that mouth baits instead of eat and run..... Kind of like when the old guys and gals are on a pier during a spot bite in the fall..... depending on style of fishing, you fish what style hook/snood you want.


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

and shiny happens with movement... we all know our basics on feeding habits. a glass minnow doesn't really attrack spot or croaker moreso than a spot head attracts a spanish or king.... Using that concecpt, of sight feeders feeding on metal vs bottom feeders is a bit flawed.... at best


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

also add in whereby a snood goes downcurrent, and most fish feed upcurrent.... thats even more time for a fish to "get hooked".


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

jmadre said:


> So you're not going to answer the question? It was about hooks, not leaders or line, either wire, mono, or fluoro.
> 
> The question was/is "Why would a fish avoid a shiny hook when they used to eating shiny fish and are often caught after biting shiny spoons and lures?"


And the answer is.......Same reason people have been catching BIG FISH with mono rigs for decades. Because fish aren't real smart


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## jmadre (Jan 3, 2008)

NTKG said:


> and shiny happens with movement... we all know our basics on feeding habits. a glass minnow doesn't really attrack spot or croaker moreso than a spot head attracts a spanish or king.... Using that concecpt, of sight feeders feeding on metal vs bottom feeders is a bit flawed.... at best


I've caught sea mullet on glass minnows and soft plastic jigs. And I'm pretty sure hooks on bottom rigs move in the current, even if they're shiny.

DiTS' replies to my question always concerns monofilament, even though my questions are solely about shiny hooks.

And to say that 'bottom feeder' is the opposite of 'sight feeder' seems a bit of flawed logic to me. One concerns where the fish feed in the water column, and the other concerns how they detect their prey.

It seems useless to continue to argue any longer. You win the Internet.


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

jmadre said:


> I've caught sea mullet on glass minnows and soft plastic jigs. And I'm pretty sure hooks on bottom rigs move in the current, even if they're shiny.
> 
> DiTS' replies to my question always concerns monofilament, even though my questions are solely about shiny hooks.
> 
> ...



Right, like I was the one that kept it going......

It's not flawed at all, as you well know jaw orientation determines feeding habits and schooling fish act more agressively than when in one or two packs, and while say a flounder and spot are both "bottom" fish, they prey differently. Argument for the sake of argument is silly. I've caught plenty of bottom fish on jigs, and people catch pomps on jigs.... Many more are caught on bait. And people have caught kings on dead stick baits. Freak things happen all the time, doesn't mean the exception should become the rule. 

Using the comp that the shine from a hook entices a fish that doesn't generally eat shiny things like other fish while touting the significance of stealth otherwise is what I was pointing out.

But you are right, this threads usefull died a while ago


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

DrumintheSuds - I'm not sure about DUMB at all, they are capable of displaying Fear, their eyesight is good - I'm sure you've thrown a Castnet at a school of Finger Mullet before - you'll see both fear and eyesite when you do that. Sound - They detect the sound of their predator or enemy, back in 2010 when the cold water ran the Slot Drum and bigger outta the sound, we would be killin em at Frisco Pier, then the bite would just stop - We'd all get back and stand on the dunes watching for a school of Porpoises to come by - when they came by the fish would hear em and move back in close where we could reach em again, They'd gradually move back out again till more Porpoises came by - So we have Fear, sight and sound. We know they have smell, by the differences in the bait we use also some of the additives some people spray or pour on their bait show sense of smell - so in my opinion they are not totally senseless, they have Fear, good sight (they're not colorblind), hearing and smell, I would not consider Fish Dumb. Now, like Jmadre - I'm gonna quit wasting my time on ya'll, the waters gone down on the soundside here on the island and the sun's shining - Other than that, I think we're driving NTKG crazy and I don't want to drive a real fisherman nuts so you just keep on usin Mono and visiting Portmouth and Fort Macon, Enjoy Fishin !! Life rolls by way to fast - River


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

River said:


> RuddeDogg - I agree with you completely, if it works - it don't need fixin, besides - I'm tired of tellin storys and I'm sure ya'll tired of seein em but like you and everyone else - I got a bunch more ---- by the way, are you the one that Kayaked with Rob off Cape Point, if so - I know you got some real tales - River


Nope. That wasn't me. I have never been to Cape Point or the OBX for that matter. Never fished for Pomps, Spanish, or Pups either. In my case and the areas I fish up here in Yankee Land, fluoro is of no use. It's too expensive and over rated.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

RuddeDogg said:


> Nope. That wasn't me. I have never been to Cape Point or the OBX for that matter. Never fished for Pomps, Spanish, or Pups either. In my case and the areas I fish up here in Yankee Land, fluoro is of no use. It's too expensive and over rated.


But how do you know???? I switched to fluoro leaders when tossing plugs and bucktails to river Stripers here and I do believe my strike to hook up ratio has improved quit a bit.


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

AbuMike said:


> But how do you know???? I switched to fluoro leaders when tossing plugs and bucktails to river Stripers here and I do believe my strike to hook up ratio has improved quit a bit.



must be the way your wigglin your worm mike......


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## Loner (Sep 9, 2009)

sc_shark said:


> well i just ordered 600 yds of floro carbon.. 40 and 60lb.. looks like ill be mono free on leaders..


.
......I use fluor...BUT this room won't hold the pompano I have landed on PINK MONO.....a little point that DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE....WHAT kind of water are U fishing in??? 
Topsail I kick butt on PINK MONO....not so much at Wrightsville bch....that has to be the consistently CLEAREST WATER in NC...
Very correct on the long drop and the fish hooking itself.....that is THE PRINCIPLE of the way POMPS feed...at least on Topsail, Wrightsville and Carolina bch....


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

NTKG said:


> must be the way your wigglin your worm mike......


LOL Must be Neil. I have tried Berkley, Gamma, Hi-Seas,, Jinkai and Seaguar flouro for both leader for pluggin and rig making. Not much of a difference at all.


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## Byron/pa (Mar 14, 2007)

> But how do you know???


Mike; He has almost 16000 posts - think about that, 16000 posts, not hundreds but thousands ...............How could he *NOT* know??????? :beer:


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Byron/pa said:


> Mike; He has almost 16000 posts - think about that, 16000 posts, not hundreds but thousands ...............How could he *NOT* know??????? :beer:


This is true he has a tremendous number of posts but our banter is all in fun. Ain't that right brother Dogg..


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

AbuMike said:


> This is true he has a tremendous number of posts but our banter is all in fun. Ain't that right brother Dogg..


Indeed it is. It's all good.


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## yerbyray (May 18, 2010)

Byron/pa said:


> Mike; He has almost 16000 posts - think about that, 16000 posts, not hundreds but thousands ...............How could he *NOT* know??????? :beer:


Heck that is only 4.8 posts a day, every day, for nine years.  But who is counting?


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

yerbyray said:


> Heck that is only 4.8 posts a day, every day, for nine years.  But who is counting?


Wow! Only four posts a day? I have to contribute more.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

yerbyray said:


> Heck that is only 4.8 posts a day, every day, for nine years.  But who is counting?





RuddeDogg said:


> Wow! Only four posts a day? I have to contribute more.



Yeah Paul, your slacking.:beer:


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Loner said:


> .
> ......I use fluor...BUT this room won't hold the pompano I have landed on PINK MONO.....a little point that DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE....WHAT kind of water are U fishing in???
> Topsail I kick butt on PINK MONO....not so much at Wrightsville bch....that has to be the consistently CLEAREST WATER in NC...
> Very correct on the long drop and the fish hooking itself.....that is THE PRINCIPLE of the way POMPS feed...at least on Topsail, Wrightsville and Carolina bch....


 You said it,clear water...


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