# Problems with Albright Knot Performance



## Blue Heron (Jun 12, 2003)

Hi folks,

I am new to using a shock leader. In one week I’ve practiced tying the Albright knot at least 25 times and practiced casting it four times. I am using 30lb Power Pro as the main line and 50lb Ande Clear mono as the shock leader.

Here is the problem. Generally I am able to cast a 4-5 oz. sinker, 90-100 yards, for about 10 casts with the shock leader before one of two things occurr:
1) During the cast, a strand or two of the PP is getting caught between the snipped tag end of the mono (which points to the pole tip) and the mono leader itself. These extra strands of PP are being dragged thru the pole eyes along with the mainline of the PP. The result is an extra strand or two of PP wrapping up between the pole tip and the last two or three eyes on the pole. The knot does not break, but the sinker only goes out about 50 feet. Believe me, I am cutting the mono tag end nearly flush to the knot. 

2) Sometimes the 50lb. mono shock leader breaks on the pole tip side of the knot. It breaks exactly at the knot. This has always happened a couple of casts after problem #1 has occurred. The knot is still in great shape (minus the shock leader of course). 

I am using the directions from this link to tie the knot: http://www.marinews.com/fishing/Knots & Rigging/fk_albright.htm. I got it from hatterasoutfitters.com. 

I am using one drop of Crazy Glue at each end of the Albright knot. The only thing different I am doing from the diagram is to make 25-30 wraps of the PP around the mono loop, instead of the 7 wraps that appear in the diagram. The 25-30 wraps is recommended in the PP literature that came with the line. 

I am casting with a 12’ Okuma Solaris spinning rod and an Okuma Epixor EB-80. The shock leader is twice the pole length plus 3-4 wraps around the reel. I am not using the unitek cast or anything fancy, just the regular cast that I’ve always used with my 9’ spinning rod and no shock leader.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Blue Heron


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

*Hmm*

I'm no expert when it comes to braid. However, a couple of things came to mind after reading your post. You could try using a floro leader. Or maybe try the improved Albright knot with your mono shock leader. Do a search for the Alberto Knot, too. I have no experience with using this knot, but I've read it works well with attaching braid to a mono shocker.


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## derek (Nov 6, 2003)

when you pass the tag end back through the loop at the bottom of the knot, are you pulling it through in the same direction as the main line, or coming in from the opposite side? it should come through the same side, for what it's worth. 

if i understand your description correctly, it sounds like the powerpro is cutting the mono when it snags. 

you might try forming decent sized loop on the end of the shock leader getting the albright, just long enough so that when it's on the spool, the tag end of the leader is laying on mono, and not the power pro.


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

use a nail knot... u can double your pp if u want, but use a nail knot, or uni-uni or a sosin knot, those will not slip

neil


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

*Blue Herron*

Look on Tres board for knots,as you did when you learned to tie the albright.. Find the alberto,and j-knot,if you are intent on tying two lines of different diameter to one another. 

I don't use power pro,but I'd think the diameter on 30 would be much smaller than 50# ande? If the two diameters are the same use a double uni,or a nail as NTKG suggested,been using those connections since I first started and have had no problems.

IMO,if the two diameters are unequal,as you have described,I'd double the line first. Use a bimini,if uncomfortable tying that,use surgeons or spider with extra wraps. To the double tie the no-name (Sosin knot) with extra wraps,or double uni,or nail..
If you have problems with these,I'd start looking closly at the guides on that rod..


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## Guest (Apr 4, 2005)

If you intend to stay with the albright knot, Is there any way you can cast with less shock leader and cast with the knot setting between the 1st and 2nd guides (1st guide being the one at the end of the pole) instead of having it start from the reel itself? It will have less eyes to rub against that seem to cause these problems. 

Also, 40lb test mono might be a little better than 50. I'm using 40lb with 15 or 20lb braid and it seems OK, but I just started this set up and still need to cast more for results; it's a thought, though. If I experience any of the problems you're talking about, I'll start using the nail knot as mentioned earlier. 

This is a good and informative post you put up, thanks!


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*power pro*

I would use 150 lb power pro as my shock. Problem solved.


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## Kenmefish (Apr 21, 2000)

Listen to Drumdum, he's done more testing than most of us on this board.


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

Look up the alberto. Braid is funny to work wih. And Crazy Al came up with a good one.


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## Wtrdog (Jun 18, 2003)

when i tried power pro i used the albright knot and the improved worked better. is the line getting wrapped back on tight? seems that if it's catching some other line already laid down that it might be a little loose. if the knot is snagging some of the main line

good luck


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## jjaachapa (Aug 7, 2004)

surf rat said:


> I would use 150 lb power pro as my shock. Problem solved.


I don't know about all that. PP as shock ! Hook on to some thing big and it could mean a finger in the wash. Or i quess you could use gloves.
just my two cents.
Plus Powerpro in the surf seems to get weaker and weaker as the day goes buy. New and you can't cut it with clippers , 5 hours of fishing in the surf and you can bite it off. Atleast thats what I thought was happening. Could have been the beer too.


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

*Dd*



> spider with extra wraps


 Sooooo, extra wraps help the Spider? 
DD, can you tell me how many wraps works best for you?


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Newsjeff said:


> Sooooo, extra wraps help the Spider?
> DD, can you tell me how many wraps works best for you?


 Newsjeff,I must confess here,with me a spider and surgeons loop are only used in mono,and I use three in both,IF I use either for mono..Probably should not have even suggested those two knots,as I personally have not tested them in braid  .. Although a few of my fishing friends,that have fished many yrs,and I trust their judgement,use both knots.Seabear uses a spider with,like 9 wraps,and he swears by the thing. With me it's bimini in braid,and most times with mono,always has been always will be..Many don't seem to be able to tie one,so that would be an option. When you have two unequal size lines,doubling the line,IMHO,is the best option. The J-knot and the Alberto,that Digger and I suggested above,have also been recomended by several good fishermen to me as well. I have tested a bimini to no-name(has small profile as well) with 6wraps on it,and that thing WILL pull buildings down,if tied right..


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*jjaachapa*

I have never seen anyone wrap the line around their fingers to drag a big fish on the beach. I put my thumb on the spool and hold it.If you are chewing power pro it two you must have teeth like a Mako shark man.


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## Green Cart (May 14, 2002)

*Use Mono Instead of PowerPro (SMILE)*

Blue Heron

Remember when I was trying to show you how to tie a shock leader to the running line, but they are both Mono. Superbraid is a little trickier. Try crazy Alberto's knot which is famous and similar to Albright.

Mono knots are easier and safer to use. That is one reason why I don't use braid.

Good luck


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

*Thanks, DD*



> With me it's bimini in braid,and most times with mono,always has been always will be..Many don't seem to be able to tie one,so that would be an option.


I was asking about the extra wraps in the spider for use with mono. (I don't double the line in the one braid setup I seldom use.)
I hate to admit it, but I'm one of those guys who can't tie a bimini worth a ****. I can tie a spider, but I have been using five wraps. And I've been using it with a uni. 
DD, both you and Digger praise the no-name with the bimini. That comes from two of the people here I respect the most. NTKG likes the nail knot with the bimini. So, I'll have to look at that combo, too. 
Now, if I could just figure out the bimini. Until then, I'll keep with the spider and try it with both the no-name and nail.
I may be getting older, but I'm getting smarter.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

*Might also check triple surgeons..*

I've test it in mono vs spider,every bit as strong as a spider hitch.. Both are good quick knots.


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## Blue Heron (Jun 12, 2003)

Hi folks,

It's been awhile since I responded to this thread which I started. But I want those of you who responded, to know that I have read every post carefully and greatly appreciate your comments and advice. 

QUESTION:
It occurred to me that I might be doing something wrong that is causing all these problems. (A) When you wrap the shockleader 3-5 times around the reel, does this mean you do 3-5 complete turns of the reel handle? (B) Or does it mean that the shockleader should literally be wrapped 3-5 times around the reel. For example, a reel with a 4 to 1 ratio, would need 1 full turn of the handle to put 4 wraps of line around the reel. I am doing (A). Is (A) or (B) the most correct? 

It's important to me, that you all know your advice and experience has not been squandered or wasted. You took the time to share your knowledge in order to help me. If you care to read the rest of the post, you will see that I have been working on your suggestions: 

I have looked up and read ALL your knot suggestions to see how they apply to problem #1 in my original post: 

the Bimini Twist to the No-Name Knot, 
Alberto’s Knot, 
the Improved Albright Knot, 
the Nail Knot, 
the J-Knot 
and one I found - Neil Mackellow’s Mono to Braid Knot. 

I tried casting the Albright again with 40lb mono instead of 50lb mono. I practiced tying and casting Mackellow's knot (with 40 & 50lb mono), because it was similar to the Albright. The same 2 original problems occurred. 

Tonight I will practice tying the J Knot and will try casting it tomorrow. I picked the J Knot because Drumdum suggested it, it looks relatively simple, Hatters Outfitters said, “it's the strongest single line to single line knot we've tested”, and also Saltwater Sportsman Magazine says it works great for tying braid mainline to a mono shockleader --- http://www.saltwatersportsman.com/saltwater/fishing/article/0,12746,472807,00.html

Thanks,

Blue Heron


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

*Answer is b*

I've seen folks put that much shock on before.The only application I could see for that much shock(as it kills your distance as well)would be from the pier. At times,on the pier,say when fighting a big cobe,you'll *wish you had that much shockline on the reel...*


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Drumdum, when it comes to tying into a cobe from a pier, sometimes you wish the whole reel was nothing but shock leader. 

As to tying braid to mono, I'd skip it. Braid cuts mono (which is why people get mad if you get your braid line tangled on their mono). The knots described above will hold but will become weaker over time.

Besides, the stuff is incredibly strong and so a shocker is not as important. Just remember to cut off several feet and re-tie every time you go out, because over time the slick coating wears off and the stuff gets weak.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

sand flea said:


> Drumdum, when it comes to tying into a cobe from a pier, sometimes you wish the whole reel was nothing but shock leader.
> 
> As to tying braid to mono, I'd skip it. Braid cuts mono (which is why people get mad if you get your braid line tangled on their mono). The knots described above will hold but will become weaker over time.
> 
> Besides, the stuff is incredibly strong and so a shocker is not as important. Just remember to cut off several feet and re-tie every time you go out, because over time the slick coating wears off and the stuff gets weak.


 Hopefully,Flea,we can *agree to disagree here..* 

I have used a bimini on 8di-20lb test fireline,tied to 80mono with 6 wrap no-name. 
Use this on an 8ft spinning rod for drum,cobe,and stripers. 
Multiple hookups,using same knot,sometimes the next trip with no retie.. 
The reasons why I use a mono leader are for fish that can give you a fit at the boat and at times you must grab the leader to land them,aka drum,stripers,cobia.. I also use flouro when I speck fish,some say it is less visible to the fish,not sold on that one.  I use it because it resist abrasion,and you can readily change lures with it.You can sure as h#ll trim it up better,without dulling the devil outta your clippers,than fireline..


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