# Boats & ethanol- GET USED TO IT !!



## RACN35 (Oct 17, 2004)

What is E85? 
E85 is a blend of 85% ethanol and 15% unleaded gasoline for use in flexible fuel vehicles (FFVs). E85 is classified as an alternative fuel by the U.S. Department of Energy. 

What is a flexible fuel vehicle? 
A flexible fuel vehicle (FFV) is a vehicle that can operate on any blend of ethanol up to 85%. If E85 is not available, the vehicle can operate on straight unleaded gasoline or any percentage of ethanol up to 85%.

Many major automakers including DaimlerChrysler, Ford, General Motors, Mazda, Mercury, Isuzu, and Mercedes manufacture vehicles that can operate on E85. FFVs have been produced for several years, and the number of E85-compatible makes and models is increasing each year.

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Why should I consider E85?
E85 is a high octane, high performance fuel. It is a renewable source of energy and reduces the crude oil imports needed to fuel America’s transportation system.

Ethanol is a clean, environmentally friendly fuel and, in an 85% blend, is very clean and even more environmentally friendly. E85 reduces harmful hydrocarbon and greenhouse gas emissions.

Because E85 vehicles are flexible by nature, owning a flexible fuel vehicle is a practical way to enter the world of alternative fuels without any limitations on the vehicle’s range.



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Flexible Fuel Vehicles RIGHT NOW.......
http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/flexfuelvehicles.php


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## Dae (Jun 25, 2002)

That's the Ethanol propoganda. If Ethanol really was the cure all for our energy needs, I think Toyota, Honda and other foreign auto companies would be putting out FFV's also. 

BTW, why don't these Ethanol people tell me how much energy it takes to get a gallon of gas equivalent to my door step? I'm guessing it's because it might cost more and also use crude oil to get it to me.

Think about it, Ethanol in the US is currently produced from Corn. What's needed to Produce Corn? Oil, oil is what is used. Fertilizer is made from natural gas and oil refining, the tractors they use run mostly on diesel, the trucks used to transport the the corn to market/Ethanol refinery uses gas/diesel and then Ethanol has to be trucked to where ever it's going because it can't be piped through existing pipelines. Sure seems like a lot of extra work to use Ethanol. Plus, where's all this land that we need to grow this corn going to come from? If Farmers start planting more corn, will we have a shortage of other produce? 

Will someone give me some hard numbers so I can compare Ethanol to current fuels available?

BTW, could using Ethanol cause more pollution? Think about it, there's a lot of Oil/Natural Gas being used to produce Ethanol.


- Dae


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## RACN35 (Oct 17, 2004)

no doubt 100's of questions........lots of countries already use it. brazil completly uses it. japan and sweden import it from brazil......

i saw this on CNN but had to google it to find it again....

*===============The text that you have entered is too long (13239 characters). Please shorten it to 10000 characters long.
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too much text so you will have to read the link- 

http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=6817


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

yes it costs more to produce ethanol than it does gas...and it takes more energy...the USA uses corn which drives up corn prices...Brazil uses sugar cane...cane is easier to turn into ethanol and they grew lots of it...the US could use other things but would need to invest in new equiptment...i don't see the benifit other than replace gas...we get most of our oil from Canada not the Middle East


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## Dae (Jun 25, 2002)

Racn35,

I read part of the article and it says in Brazil was making Ethanol at about a $1 a gallon but the world average was $1.50/gal.

Based on $1.50 a gallon (I think it's more here in the US to produce a gallon becasue we use Corn) and assuming that includes a profit for the producer, it's still not cost competitive to gas if that's only the cost to produce it. Reason is because you have to ship it by rail or truck then add taxes and profit for the local retailer.

Knowing what I currently know about ethanol production, I don't feel it's worth it to use ethanol. That is unless we come up with a different way to produce it. 

Let see, not only will you get less mpg from ethanol, I wonder how much more it would cost if the farmers didn't get a subside.

Ok, I'm rambling now so I gotta stop. But one last thing ..... I feel ethanol is a fad here in the States and if Ethanol does become cost effective, I guess I'll be eating crow.

- Dae


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## RACN35 (Oct 17, 2004)

i guess they should have just let all those old hicks back in the day go ahead and make that moonshine, and there would be plenty of corn squeezens to drink and to drive to work on to boot buddy !!


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## ASK4Fish (May 4, 2005)

positive comment on ethanol coming soon...need to verify my source


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## Dae (Jun 25, 2002)

ASK4Fish said:


> positive comment on ethanol coming soon...need to verify my source


Come on man, tell us at least sometime. I don't care if the info is varified or not because I can try and varify it myself.

Is the info any thing like they found a new additive to oxygenate fuel or is it that people will be able to regain the lost MPG with future vehicles because you can run high compression ratios in a motor designed specifically for Ethanol?


- Dae


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

ethanol can be made from grass clippings, or other weed type products...if the gov don't step up it will never work...the gov works backwards..."prove it works and we will do it"...try some R&D is what they need to do...


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## Dae (Jun 25, 2002)

rattler said:


> ethanol can be made from grass clippings, or other weed type products.



Yes, it is known that Ethanol can be made from weeds and such, but it's cost prohibitive with current technology. 

If we're going to go with a organic based renewable energy source, I think it's going to have to be biodiesel, not Ethanol. One way to make Biodiesel is from certain types of fatty algae and it'll even grow in the desert. My understanding is this algae can grow so fast, it wouldn't even take a 1/4 of space we would need if we were to use corn based Ethanol. And I'm pretty sure, that's based the US being energy independent. Another nice thing about biodiesel is that it can be a direct replacement for diesel fuel so you don't need a Flex Fuel diesel vehicle and you can use it as home heating fuel. You can pump it through existing pipelines and it burns cleaner then crude based diesel.

Knowing what I know about biodiesel and Ethanol, it sure seems we would be better off switching to biodiesel as the alternative fuel of choice. 

Ethanol (Moonshine), should be sold for consumption and not to be burned.  


- Dae


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## Bassplug (Jun 18, 2004)

Did not know I was an "old hick" now.

Bill


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## ASK4Fish (May 4, 2005)

sorry guys but my comp has been down...

"According to the Iowa Corn Council, a bushel of corn can make 2.7 gallons of ethanol, along with 11.4 pounds of cattle feed, 3 pounds of corn meal and 1.6 pounds of corn oil. Large scale ethanol would therefore not be expected to cause shortages in other corn products. No word yet on whether Fritos production and availability will be affected." 

-Shallow Water Angler p.12 "White Lightning for Your Outboard?" 

theres the answer on production on the stuff but some maufacturers such as Nissan do not permit the use of any fuels containing ethanol and will void warranties if there is any damage from doing so


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## HawgHvn (Jun 4, 2003)

Ahhh . . . the ol' ethanol issue.

I 'member back in '68 a friend of mine and I fount several bottles of dandeeeeeline wine in his Dad's basement under the workbench. That stuff shore did fire us up and wire us up sum that nite. :--| 

Musta been about 15 gallons of the stuff. He drove an old Nash - Jamie, you 'member them things. Convertible type and us guys would ride around in snowstorms with the top down chasin' tail on them uniformed school girls at the local religious school. Had to give it up when we turnt 17.  

As I recall, gasoline was 'bout 11 cents a gallon at the time an' all we had 'tween us was about 8 cents - so we dumped several gallons of that dandeeeeeeline wine into the tank and ran on that for several days. Best gas mileage he ever got with that ol' Nash for about two days. 'Course, after that, it never did run quite right. That or mebbe it was our brains that wasn't runnin' quite right. Sure don't 'member too many details about that week or so of my life.

Shure could use some of that dandeeeeeline wine right about now to take the chill off. Guess I'll have to settle for a couple inches of Bailey's Cream over an ice cube. My tastes have changed some since '68. My Chasin' hobbies have changed some, too. Still chase tail, but it's on the back side of a fish, now.  

Ya'll just remember to run all that ethanol gas out of the tank (drain it if'n ya kin!) afore ya put'er up for the winter. Otherwise, ya better keep fishin' right on through to next spring!


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## kingfish (Feb 28, 2004)

I CAN TELL YOU THIS; eathanol is here and if you don't pay attention at the pumps you will be using it. I put it in my boat. 350 gallons, but I called yamaha before i did. they said the fuel system and the engines are rated to burn it, And I guess it is. to meet fuel emissions or something. Don't do it. Many hours of down time and more problems than you would ever believe to fix. Yamaha did make it right. I would not use it for that application if it were free. On second thought , now that I think i know where the problem came from..........350 gallons free..............maybe. Watch out, you ain't saving that much..


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## Gotta Go (Aug 4, 2006)

My problem is that I have no choice. Where I get gas on the water, that is all there is. I unfortunatley have to let my boat sit 1 to 2 weeks at a time, and I believe that has what has cause my recent problems. The mechanic recommended Star Tron in the tank with each fill up. Check out the thead I started on this board. 

I pick up my boat tomorrow out of the shop and will be adding the juice.


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## bbcroaker (Jan 6, 2005)

Most stations away in counties away from the big cities still have E 10 free gas. Major brands BP. Exxon . 
Just filled mine again in Prince George County,Va.


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## RACN35 (Oct 17, 2004)

thats good to hear gotta go !! seems it didnt take too long at least. i have a new cell so i dont have your number now- i better go with you on that test run !!


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## okimavich (Nov 13, 2006)

RACN35 said:


> What is a flexible fuel vehicle?
> A flexible fuel vehicle (FFV) is a vehicle that can operate on any blend of ethanol up to 85%. If E85 is not available, the vehicle can operate on straight unleaded gasoline or any percentage of ethanol up to 85%.


Heh heh. That's funny marketing. I believe most, if not all, cars produced after ~1996 are FFV. It mostly has to do with the "rubber" hoses and seals breaking down with ethanol in high concentrations. Chrysler tried pushing FFV back in the 90s but you couldn't find EXX anywhere. Now GM is trying to market "certified FFV" vehicles.  Yeah ok. As for boats, I don't know. You should call your manufacturer about that.

As for biodiesel, the jell point is higher than normal dinodiesel. Here in Maryland, that typically means running B80 (80% diesel/ 20% kerosene or other antijelling agent) to prevent getting stuck in even the mildest of winters. 

While biodiesel has it's own problems, it seems like a better alternative to me, plus you can make it at home.


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## gus (Jan 24, 2002)

the ethanol will burn cleaner, the main issue here isnt money (at least it shouldnt be). we need a president who can see past his nose and wallet.....maybe in 2 years! the funny thing is that the ethanol may not even be cheaper anyhow when u factor in all the hidden subsidies. those subsidies come from our pockets in the first place. switching to ethanol may help out our ailing farmers though which would be good. if we can lower our emissions and help our farmers at the same time it would seem to at least be a step in the right direction.


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## Dae (Jun 25, 2002)

gus said:


> if we can lower our emissions and help our farmers at the same time it would seem to at least be a step in the right direction.


I have no problem with helping our Farmers but I haven't seen any proof that it reduces emissions.

It might reduce out tailpipe emissions, but how much emissions is put out to produce and get the ethanol to our service stations.

Think about it. Most nitrogen fertilizers are based on oil/natural gas which is used to grow corn. Then you have to ship the corn to the Ethanol refineries. More fuel used and emission... Then the refiners have to make the Ethanol.. More fuel used and emissions... Then because Ethanol can't be pump through traditional pipelines like MTBE, it has to be trucked or rail shipped. That's even more fuel and emissions.

At this time, the only benefit I see is for our Farmers, and possible ground water contamination. I don't see how it's reducing emissions. All I see if that it's costing more to use and it shifts the emissions from our tail pipes to a different polluter. Also if it's going to take more E10 to go the same distance, are we really putting out less emissions based on distance?

BTW, to my knowledge, no foreign auto sold in the us is a FFV. Domestics are pushing FFV, but foreign companies are looking at hybrid technology. Oh, a vehicle able to run E10 does not make it FFV. FFV vehicles have coated tanks and such because E85 will destroy a none FFV in short order.

- Dae


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Dae's point is a pretty good one.

He's not saying ethanol isn't clean. It burns well and avoids the whole greenhouse gas issue by pulling energy out of corn in the form of ethanol.

Problem is, how did we get to the point where that corn got planted, fertilized, watered, harvested, hauled, processed, fermented, and distilled into ethanol?

We sucked oil out of the ground and used it to move the corn through each step. And when you get to the end, you have burned close to a gallon of gasoline to produce a gallon of ethanol. It's nothing more than a corn disposal scheme.

Take a look at this article, "The Oil We Eat." It's long, but worth your time.

And lest you think this article comes from a leftist political perspective, it ends like this:

_My respect for these creatures over the years has become great enough that on that morning I did not hesitate but went straight to my job, which was to rack a shell and drop one cow elk, my household's annual protein supply. ... My particular bit of violence, though, is more satisfying, I think, than the rest of the globe's ordinary political mayhem. I used a rifle to opt out of an insane system. I killed, but then so did you when you bought that package of burger, even when you bought that package of tofu burger. I killed, then the rest of those elk went on, as did the grasses, the birds, the trees, the coyotes, mountain lions, and bugs, the fundamental productivity of an intact natural system, all of it went on._


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