# What would the benefits of casting past 120 yards should I expect when surf fishing



## glenn3564

Newbie here asking dumb question. I love surf fishing and have just gotten back in to it. I'm 61 and I use only Daiwa Spinning reels.
I consistently cast 114 to 126 yards in the field across the road with a 3oz. weight tied to the end of a 17# Spiderwire Mono line and nothing else.
Without making this too technical, I use my 7000 series reels cat fishing and one of my 9000's. Surf fishing, I use the following:

PM9000H on 12' Ugly Stick
Emblem Pro 5500 on 12' Ugly Stick
Emcast Plus 6000 on 12' Sealine Surf ((best casting rod but not best casting reel))
Emcast Plus 4500 on 12' Daiwa Eliminator

With ya'll's advise, I could get a much greater distance. The Sealine Surf rod has that feel about it even though it
is the flimsiest one of all the rods but has that snap at the top of my swing. 
Will all that being said, would I catch more or larger fish beyond 125 yards?
Is it worth it to change?


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## RjTheMetalhead

It depends where you are fishing.

If there are 2 or 3 bars with the outerbar 100 yards out it could be worthwhile to position your baits there. If a 127 yard cast is waaaaayyy past the waves you might overshoot the fish.

Ive only ever a surf fished the flat as a pancake SC surf and ALWAYS will do better just a very short lob away. Both in numbers and size


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## fishingman88

I don't think it's worth changing your gear IMO. You are achieving more than respectable distance with your casts. The big fish aren't always far out...I think changing up your bait/rigs/location to target larger fish will be more effective at the end of the day.


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## fish bucket

I disagree.
if you could add 30-40 yds to your distance there is no doubt it would increase your fish catching odds.
fish are not always close!


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## glenn3564

That's some good advise guys. I got a late start this year and had some very good catches just behind the breakers. Then the fish kind of went away I think and I started
throwing way out and have had no luck at all. I think the best luck I had when they were close in on the beach was in the rear breaker area. After that, I went about 20
yards further out and had no luck but by that time I think the best fishing was over.


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## Seahawk

glenn3564: If you are averaging 120 yards now and can hone your technique to cast even further, then there are no reasons that I can think of not to. Getting maximum performance out of your gear is a good thing in my mind. But to be clear, just because you can cast into the next county doesn't mean you always have to. Being able to cast that far out enables you to cover more fishable territory if and when the need should arise. Will you catch more and bigger fish? Maybe, maybe not.


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## fishingman88

fish bucket said:


> I disagree.
> if you could add 30-40 yds to your distance there is no doubt it would increase your fish catching odds.
> fish are not always close!


I respectfully disagree with this concept. Casting 150 Yards in any random location will not increase your odds of catching more or larger fish. Learning to read the surf to find optimal locations and using the right rigs/bait is significantly more important in my opinion. 

I just don't think it is worth changing his gear to get more distance in his current situation from the information he has provided. 

I have really only seen distance help in two primary scenarios. 

1) Targeting drum/sharks off the pier/surf using 8+Bait.
2) Plugging for fish that are way out there. 

In either scenario, I think a fisherman knows when he should be practicing his technique to improve his distance. When everyone is bowing up and he isn't (bait is the same, rig is the same, only difference is other fishermen are casting further)

I've seen guys plugging their arms out and straining their shoulders and they still get outfished by fishermen who have better technique and know what bait/plug is producing.


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## fish bucket

the ability to cast further is just one more weapon in your arsenal.
if the fish are close a longcaster can shorten his cast but if the fish are far out a shortcaster can not lengthen his cast.
we are not all lucky enough to fish beaches with structure and deep water.......some of us have to fish very flat beaches and shallow water.
sometimes only a 150-200yd cast will get over the bar to where the fish are.
besides it is moore fun to catch a fish way out than one at your feet.......imo


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## AbuMike

By all means practice and get yourself to maximum casting distance. But, don't let your ego get in the way of catching fish. Your location WILL DICTATE how far you need to cast. Way too many time I have seen people cast right over the fish just to out throw the others on the beach and strike out. At the end of the day they say..."man you were in the right spot today"........ No, you were just casting over the fish just to say you can cast weight n bait 200yds.....


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## pods

If you are targeting a clean water fish like say a pompano, and you are dealing with muddy surf, casting just past that far bar will help with finding fish. 
Worked for me at Topsail. And it was about in the distance you were speaking about of ~120 yards. 
If you tied on a 40 lb or so shock leader you could put more into a cast and not have to worry about breakoff.
And you could toss bigger bait for drum/sharks.
It would cost nothing too. Which always helps.
Like the others said, just because you can doesn't mean you have to though.
pods (another newb)


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## Manlystanley

Like many people have said, "it depends". I was once fishing in Outerbanks next to a real pro. I did everthing he did, distance, bait, lure, sinker size, hook size, etc. He out-caught me 5 to one. BTW: He casted out 5-15 yards. But, outerbanks has a huge drop-off so that fish come in close. 

Best Regards,
Stan


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## RocknReds

Manlystanley said:


> Like many people have said, "it depends". I was once fishing in Outerbanks next to a real pro. I did everthing he did, distance, bait, lure, sinker size, hook size, etc. He out-caught me 5 to one. BTW: He casted out 5-15 yards. But, outerbanks has a huge drop-off so that fish come in close.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Stan


You can always crank in a long cast but can't push out a short cast. A lot of times there are more and bigger fish past the bar (be prepared for a stronger current out there) especially near the cut in the bar.


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## Tommy

As others have said, the ability to fish at long range is another tool in the kit. Few things are more frustrating than to be on the beach with the fish _just out of your casting range _ while the guy next to you is catching, just 10-20 yards outside your limits.

A long caster can throw short.

Tommy


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## glenn3564

Everybody has given me some good info and I mean all of you. Right now, I am not too concerned with getting further out. I know with some winter practice and tweaking of my 
equipment that will come. What I am least knowledgeable in is the bait and rig department. I use a shiny steel 30# leader. I actually tried it this past summer at the river in the
same hole with the same bait as my buddy and his home made leader caught more fish. I order my leaders out of New Jersey and they are really bright and shiny. Are they scaring
the fish away? Also, I see guys using cut bait on some kind of rig that at a distance looks like a Carolina rig. Are they trying to float their bait in the water or are they just trying
to keep their bait off the bottom a few inches? Anybody have a picture of one I could see? Last of all, I think my bait supplier has been screwing me on how fresh the bait was.
I am ok at knowing what fresh shrimp look and feel like but cut bait such as mullet is harder for me to tell. Any help there? I believe when I can get my bait and rig situation in order,
I will catch more fish and this winter, I will practice on my casting.


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## Seahawk

I’ve been doing my homework in preparation for my move to coastal NC sometime this year, so I’ll take a stab at trying to help you out by sharing some things I’ve found. I’m sure others will be able to offer more and fill in any blanks.

Is this what you're describing when you said “looks like a Carolina Rig?
http://www.sportfishingmag.com/files/_images/201105/100-0610redfish_rig.jpg

If so, here's how to tie it:
http://www.ncangler.com/forums/threads/53144-Make-your-own-drum-rig?highlight=drum+hook

An article on cut bait you may fine useful:
http://www.stripersurf.com/chunks.html

Best bait to use is freshly caught mullet, spot or croaker. The oils and blood from a freshly caught and cut baitfish are strong attractants to a fish like Drum so the fresher the better.
Use a double hook bottom rig tipped with bloodworms, shrimp or squid to catch the bait Make your own rigs; plenty of videos available on youtube. I'm all thumbs, so I built one of these after seeing it online: 

How to build a Dropper Loop Peg Board: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PV2r544Hhg
How to use a Dropper Loop Peg Board: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5sLQH_N3BM&feature=player_embedded

Tie a barrel swivel to the top and a double surgeons loop large enough to pass the sinker through on the bottom, loop your hooks onto the dropper loops and you're good to go.

So, if you don't catch your own fresh baitfish, how do you tell what you buy is fresh? Check the eyes; are they clear and bright or cloudy? Clear and bright is good. How about the body flesh, is it firm to light finger pressure or does it feel mushy? Firm is good. Check the scales. Are they firmly attached or easily removed? Firmly attached is good. What about smell? Does it have none or have a hint or strong smell of ammonia? Best test of all is if you won't buy it to eat it, don't buy it to fish it. 

Two other baits you might use are a small, live blue crab or whole live shrimp. The following may be useful:

How to rig a Blue Crab:
http://www.texasgulfcoastfishing.com/rigging_blue_crab.html

How to rig a live shrimp:
http://www.texasgulfcoastfishing.com/rigging_live_shrimp.html

Best of luck.


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## SteveZ

Short fish finder or cannon ball for drum.


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## AbuMike

Just buy some of these and be done with it..........


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## glenn3564

Thanks fellas. Ironically, I use to buy vintage fishing tackle boxes online and some have tackle in them. I already have several of the above pictured rigs.
Tackle box they came in was from around the Great Lakes and assumed they were not for salt water fishing but I'm going to throw them in my tackle box
right now. All this gives me a picture of what I need to change. Fresh is better than frozen and home made is better than bought. My river fishing 
buddy told me that was what was wrong with the catfish not biting my pole and was biting his. I just thought he was full of it but he was right.
Thanks again for all your help guys and I will bookmark those sites above for future reference.
Thanks
Glenn


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## cooper138

AbuMike said:


> Just buy some of these and be done with it..........


lol


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## cooper138

SteveZ said:


> Short fish finder or cannon ball for drum.


 suppose that should go to your liking. are you talking short as in 6" or short as in 1" ff? i like 1" but use a cannonball 90% of the time, quicker to make and less knots and teminal tackle to worry about.


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## SteveZ

1"


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## cooper138

i like a 1" but a one inch can be a pain to tie with heavy mono, even harder on the beach in the dark in the wind with cold hands. thats i guess why i prefer doing a cannonball. usually have a bunch ready to go. i like mine about 3' long made out of heavy mono (80-130) that 130 will take alot of abuse and once you get that in your hand you won. quick to change if its getting chaffed and i think i protects your shock better than having your shock run right into a 1" snell. as far as casting with a cannon or a 1" i dont notice much of a difference. another advantage to the cannon is with a heavy swivel a couple feet above your sinker it will keep your sinker from traveling up your shock increasing the chances of tangling up others lines. just my 2 cents both are proven winners


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## SteveZ

I use a 50# shocker with 5' of 80# rub leader...hooks are 9/0 gami big eyes...hook leader is 150# jinkai snelled & then crimped to a 1/0 spro swivel. Shocker is ended with a double surgeon's loop and the rub leader is tied on with a 4 turn no name with the tag stuck out enough that the spro 2/0 sinker slide cannot run up the shocker. Hook leader is tied to the 80# rub leader with a 4 turn clinch knot. Easy to clip the hook off and tie on another one. I sometimes fish a cannon ball but prefer the short ff. Works for me...


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## cooper138

pretty quality set up. seems to be just a preference thing at that point. most important thing to me is being confident with what i have out there. not to familiar with the gami big eye, heard seen alot of problems with some of the gami circles but mostly do to the offset. is the big eye hook point and shank inline?


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## SteveZ

Wouldn't use a gami octopus circle. Wouldn't use any hook that wasn't inline. The big eyes...$$$. When there's tons of biters I use the owner ssw hooks as they are much cheaper. The straight eye ssw is inline...the bent eye ssw has a very slight offset but you can bend it inline pretty easily. The gamakatsu big eyes...in 9/0...made for drum. Google 'em. 

Yer right, confidence in your rig is paramount. If you like it and it WORKS then it ain't bad.


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## cooper138

SteveZ said:


> Wouldn't use a gami octopus circle. Wouldn't use any hook that wasn't inline. The big eyes...$$$. When there's tons of biters I use the owner ssw hooks as they are much cheaper. The straight eye ssw is inline...the bent eye ssw has a very slight offset but you can bend it inline pretty easily. The gamakatsu big eyes...in 9/0...made for drum. Google 'em.
> 
> Yer right, confidence in your rig is paramount. If you like it and it WORKS then it ain't bad.


 one hook ive gone to when biters are lurking is the eagle claw L2004EL circle sea inline. nice cheap and have zero problems with it. made in a nice 10/0. i was wary at first due to the price $8 for 17 but have come to love that hook. no hook up problems, no breaks or straightening. look em up and give them a shot cant beat the price


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## castingsfun

*What would the benefits of casting past 120 yards should I expect when surf fishing*

It's fun! 

It's good exercise. 

I fave A 10/0 octo beek.

This rig, dusky pup on accident.

















Custom handle, ergonomically fit for your grip.















The internals are also upgraded!  tricked!


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## SteveZ

cooper138 said:


> one hook ive gone to when biters are lurking is the eagle claw L2004EL circle sea inline. nice cheap and have zero problems with it.


Actually I've been thinking about this hook. I'm gonna order some. But that gami big eye...that's my hook.


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## ez2cdave

Seahawk said:


> How to build a Dropper Loop Peg Board: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PV2r544Hhg


That video link comes up as "Private" on YouTube . . . What's up with that ?


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## Seahawk

ez2cdave said:


> That video link comes up as "Private" on YouTube . . . What's up with that ?



Got me, it's new to me. Also, it's not my video. 
I just did a search on how to make one and this video from some other guy works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txoVR5JoK90


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## ez2cdave

Seahawk said:


> Got me, it's new to me. Also, it's not my video.
> I just did a search on how to make one and this video from some other guy works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txoVR5JoK90


OK . . . That one works fine.

I also found this one. This guy really "goes all out" !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBJ3TnOpUA8

Thanks !


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## Seahawk

ez2cdave said:


> I also found this one. This guy really "goes all out" !


*WOW*!!! And I thought I was obsessive/compulsive!! Got to admit, however, he did a great job.


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## ez2cdave

glenn3564 said:


> Newbie here asking dumb question. I love surf fishing and have just gotten back in to it. I'm 61 and I use only Daiwa Spinning reels.
> I consistently cast 114 to 126 yards in the field across the road with a 3oz. weight tied to the end of a 17# Spiderwire Mono line and nothing else.
> Without making this too technical, I use my 7000 series reels cat fishing and one of my 9000's. Surf fishing, I use the following:
> 
> PM9000H on 12' Ugly Stick
> Emblem Pro 5500 on 12' Ugly Stick
> Emcast Plus 6000 on 12' Sealine Surf ((best casting rod but not best casting reel))
> Emcast Plus 4500 on 12' Daiwa Eliminator
> 
> With ya'll's advise, I could get a much greater distance. The Sealine Surf rod has that feel about it even though it
> is the flimsiest one of all the rods but has that snap at the top of my swing.
> Will all that being said, would I catch more or larger fish beyond 125 yards?
> Is it worth it to change?


That distance of 114-126 yds with only sinker tied on will diminish when you add a bait into the equation . . . 

Why ?

Aerodynamic drag as the bait flies through the air, flapping around . . .


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## bctom

Thinking you number 1 priority should be learning how to read the beach, and the change is constant......then concentrate on your casting. Many books on the subject, but you learn and remember far more if you get out there and either walk or ride the beach..


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## Derk97

It has been in my limited experience that distance is not always important depending on your fishing spot. I have caught plenty of nice fish at 50yds at some beaches while at others we went as far as to paddle our bait out to 200yds on yaks to get past the dead zones. best thing is to ask your local bait shop what distance has been working the best for your target fish and concentrate on that.


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## WNCRick

this is funny as hell, you can throw to the moon here and still hit the same flat assed desolate beach..............lol


good luck

Rick


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## pods

I got humbled tossing baits for sharks last year. I was putting half spots at about 75-100 yards, which in retrospect was about smack dab on the sandbar. Nothing. Brother in law was lobbing small chunks in the first gut (high tide) and was entertaining fish for a while before I realized where my baits were sitting. Tossed them in the gut and voila!
I can reach past the bar (100-120 yards) with a drop rig with fleas, but not with a big bait. Just not gonna happen.
Just like my golf game. I hit it far and get into trouble, when I should think about where the best spot to put it is in the first place.


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## LarryB

Pods, I think that your golf analogy is right-on. Just like a golfer who uses different clubs for different situations we do the same when bait fishing. I usually have two or three rods set out and when you don't know where the fish are I like to cover as much water as possible. I'll usually pull out that "Driver" to set one out long and place the other rods in sequence closer to shore. Once I've identified where the fish are then all the baits can be adjusted to that location. Just like with golf I feel that I need to be able to master all my clubs because the golf course like the fishing conditions is never the same. There have been some very good responses for why it's important to be able to make a long cast and being able to cover more water to me is why.

Remember that in order to be good at anything you need to practice. That's especially important for long distance casting with fishing equipment. Your distances will be reduced on the beach because sand doesn't provide good footing for making a cast and the aerodynamics of your bait also cost you distance. By taking these factors into account the better your casting technique the better your able to compensate for these factors. Fishing is a great sport but like golf you need to be able to play with all the clubs.

Very good discussion,
LarryB


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## Kwesi W.

So many good points made in this post.. 

My opinion is that learning to cast decent distances (with bait) is just another tool to have... The key will be to learn when and where to use your new skill.. Most dudes I have seen fish think they are casting 200 yards but are probably doing 50-80 yards (with bait)...


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## Espresso

Kwesi W. said:


> So many good points made in this post..
> 
> My opinion is that learning to cast decent distances (with bait) is just another tool to have... The key will be to learn when and where to use your new skill.. Most dudes I have seen fish think they are casting 200 yards but are probably doing 50-80 yards (with bait)...


I try to sling 6-8oz with a single hook and worm and can only get 100 yds with one setup (12'er & Akios shuttle). Can't even get close with most of my other rigs. Guys who are able to get 100 yds plus on the regular slinging bait are top notch in my book.


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## garrysingh817

heyyyyyyyyyyyyy


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## Kwesi W.

Espresso said:


> I try to sling 6-8oz with a single hook and worm and can only get 100 yds with one setup (12'er & Akios shuttle). Can't even get close with most of my other rigs. Guys who are able to get 100 yds plus on the regular slinging bait are top notch in my book.


Thanks for the kind words!! LOL I thought i was the man until I fished next to Larry B.... Talk about an humbling experience.. LOL How you doing Larry?

Seriously like it was said the only way to get better at launching far is to practice, and honestly most anglers would rather be on the water than on some football field.. 

I am in the group of anglers that can cast above average distances and have been outfished several times by folks that have mickey mouse rods and are 30 yards out. LOL


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## LarryB

Thanks Kwesi,

I know that you are trying to butter-me-up for something. Great to hear from you and hope that fatherhood is going well also. You are exactly on point when you said that distance casting is just another tool in you bag. We're all at different levels as far as I casting skills but it only takes some basic adjustments to see progress in our casting distances. 

I noticed that Sportscast USA will be holding a distance casting tournament in Washington, DC on the 17th and 18th of May. I'll be happy to help anyone that would like to come out before the event to work on their technique. I'll try to remember to put out a post about two weeks before the event for everyone.

LarryB


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## DougVNg

the "Sages" have spoken! we humble mortals should listen.


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## Alexy

All of it is great advice. I would sugget learing to read surf conditions and be very compfortable with doing it. You can have a pinpoint rifle that shoot 1000 meters but if you do not know where and when to hunt you will never bag anything.


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