# Reading the surf when it's miles of sameness..Topsail topic



## fishdrummer (Jul 16, 2006)

Headed back to Topsail for family vacation the 9th. Last few trips last year were to Kure Beach. I've caught my share at Topsail, but it really seems to be a guess and check method more than anything. Seldom do you see any real washouts to target, at least not within walking distance. I usually run 2 fishfinders during the day, one out as far as I can (not that far) and one 20-40 feet out. At night, depending on tide I usually keep the baits in fairly close to shore.
Any hints to improve my luck in finding a hole to fish?


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## N topsail fisher (Feb 13, 2005)

Surf City seems to have the best structure, but also the largest crowds. I know it seems remedial but check the beach at low tide, a lot of the holes are hard to spot especially with an offshore wind.


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

It doesn't take much of a "run-out" to hold fish. In fact many of my best spots are nothing more than a ditch that has turned back out to the ocean. Sometimes the runout is next to a small point and sometimes not. The flea legend that taught me how to read "skinny water" started out fishing surf city and he fished the flattest beach he could find


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## JamesRiverVa (Apr 24, 2012)

DrumintheSuds, when you fish that kind of water are you putting your baits close to the beach near the visible part of the runout or are you trying to get them farther out with the expectation that the runout will create current that carries on farther out from the beach? 

I'm still trying to learn how to read the surf, and too often find myself finding a spot that looks a little different/fishy, maybe a little bit of a visible runout/ditch/outsuck in the water washing off the beach into the shore line breakers, but then just walking up to it and casting as far as I can. I have a feeling that I'd do better if I knew where within the structure/surf to cast.


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

I set up beside the runout and fish on top of the bar. I try a rig right where the wave crashes the bar, the middle of the bar and right at my feet. 90% of people will fish right in the middle of the runout or "cut" but if you slide just a bit further down you will hit it just right


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## HStew (Jan 8, 2009)

One side of the run out will be clearer water. Each side may hold the same or different species.


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## dialout (Feb 5, 2011)

I am detemnined to do more than just chuck bait this year and hope for fish....when you say cut or runout...are you talking the slight depressions noticable in the sand between the slight bumps? Sorry not a very good description...


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

A runout is anywhere you see a channel turn 90 degrees and head back out to ocean. Something has to turn that water and in most instances that occures at a "point" or a "cut" in the bar. Sometimes the channel, point and/or cut is very pronounced and easy to spot but other times it is very subtle. I have found these subtle areas to be the most productive. Many times a look for nothing more than a ditch at low tide and follow it until I spot where it turns back out. The runout or cut is many times no wider than my truck. I might find and mark 4 or 5 of these runouts in a general area and hole hop as the tide comes over the swash bar.


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

http://www.utsc.utoronto.ca/~greenw/longwave.html

This is a great example of what I refer to as a swash bar with a channel (runnel) and a runout (rip). This obviously isn't on american shores but is pretty much identical to what I look for. You see a very pronounced RIP but below it is a narrow runout. In a case like this I would fish smack dab in the middle of that "flat" between them or beside the RIP


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## dialout (Feb 5, 2011)

Good info, that picture was exactly what I was thinking, and didnt have the words to describe.


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## Mudd (Jan 10, 2004)

Forget the obvious, for the Denmark picture, look at the top of the page right under the "D". About 4 good spots to drop a bait there.


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

Mudd said:


> Forget the obvious, for the Denmark picture, look at the top of the page right under the "D". About 4 good spots to drop a bait there.


No doubt.....People don't realize that it doesn't take much of a runout at all to hold fish. The "key" to my fishing is finding a flat beach with little pockets and runouts so I can hole hop as the fish move down the beach. When viewed from eye level most people would never stop where I fish in their pursuit of big wide holes with deep water. Most of my holes can be fished by 1 truck only....2 at the most


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## JamesRiverVa (Apr 24, 2012)

DitS, you say the places you fish wouldn't be obvious when viewed from eye level. How do you spot them then? Do you scout them from up on the dunes, or do you rely exclusively on driving the beach at low tide and marking places you want to come back and fish later? 

My problem is that at low tide I can see those subtle runouts, pockets etc. and I think to myself "that will probably hold fish when the tide is in." But then when the tide is higher and I'm driving the beach, I don't know what to look for in the water unless it's a real obvious rip, a point or a deep slough. Or I'll see a place where the water seems to be gathering in one spot from a fairly wide piece of beach on the beach and running out in a bit of a rip, but I can't really tell how far out that current (and any cut/channel that it might be carving or following) extend. Does it end just a few yards into the water, or does it go all the way out to the bar? What I need is to fish the beach with someone like the flea legend you mentioned above, and have them show me the subtle stuff I am missing.


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

JamesRiverVa said:


> DitS, you say the places you fish wouldn't be obvious when viewed from eye level. How do you spot them then? Do you scout them from up on the dunes, or do you rely exclusively on driving the beach at low tide and marking places you want to come back and fish later?
> 
> My problem is that at low tide I can see those subtle runouts, pockets etc. and I think to myself "that will probably hold fish when the tide is in." But then when the tide is higher and I'm driving the beach, I don't know what to look for in the water unless it's a real obvious rip, a point or a deep slough. Or I'll see a place where the water seems to be gathering in one spot from a fairly wide piece of beach on the beach and running out in a bit of a rip, but I can't really tell how far out that current (and any cut/channel that it might be carving or following) extend. Does it end just a few yards into the water, or does it go all the way out to the bar? What I need is to fish the beach with someone like the flea legend you mentioned above, and have them show me the subtle stuff I am missing.


What you are looking for is a change in structure like a point that redirects the water outward or it could be that the "ditch" I refer to simply turns out because of a slight hump. I like to start scouting about 3 hours after high tide when you the bars start showing themselves but you still have water current moving through the narrow runnels. Look for suds rushing outwards when you run across these areas that jut out or "look different". As summer fishing approaches I will start looking for small pockets of deeper water next to flats and I also look for sloughs but my approach is the same. Current redirecting back out to ocean, runouts and sand bars. If you come across a slough while scouting on falling tide follow it and watch the water closely. You will learn to spot these cuts, washouts, points and flats.


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

Something else I do all the time.....I will come up on some guys fishing a big hole and stop at the point they could care less about. I will toss my rig 10 yards into the rolling suds and pick up 2 or 3 drum as they watch their rods sit still.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Any time a beach is tough to read (either because it's flat or the tide is high), forget looking at the water. Look at the actual beach. Anywhere you can find shells on the beach, slight camel humps or any lower areas--that's where you fish.


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

sand flea said:


> Any time a beach is tough to read (either because it's flat or the tide is high), forget looking at the water. Look at the actual beach. Anywhere you can find shells on the beach, slight camel humps or any lower areas--that's where you fish.


Very good point....I ma always on the lookout for areas healthy in coquina clams and I look for sandpipers to tip me off. Sandpipers mean lost of coquina clams and sandfleas. Those camel humps are on of the main things that "turn the water"


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## Captain Awesome (Jul 27, 2010)

Anyone new to the surf, or people like me who are still novice, read this thread. Then read it again and print it out. Then when you are standing on the beach read it once more. Great info here. 

I'll add a couple more to it (and those more experienced can correct me if it is a bit off). When I get to the beach it's typically a family vacation so I don't get all the time I want to fish (plus I didn't have 4 wheel drive, so I was walking), so that means I might not have the chance to scout low tide. So I have begun to learn how to read the waves at high tide. This is much less accurate that actually seeing the structure or more obvious signs at low tide but can give you a much better chance than blind casting. Waves obviously break when the energy in the water contacts the bottom. So as you look at the water you will see places where some waves break evenly and others where there are parts that break further in or even begin to "curl" in one direction. These can be good places, since there is a difference in water depth there, but just because you see a wave break differently don't jump right to that spot. Since many waves do not move at a perfect 90 degree angle to shore you have to watch the waves for a minute or two (or longer). Once you notice a pattern in a specific spot (parts breaking further in / out / curls meeting at one place) then that is a good place to try. I will often stand up near the dunes and try to watch a few hundred feet in each direction for several minutes and find a possible spot or two, then either give them a try if they look promising or walk a little further and watch again. I might not catch as much as some, but it certainly has increased my success.

Also if you do have the opportunity to scout low tide a simple trick which I learned here is to take a stick or driftwood you find and place it up near the dunes at a spot. That way when you come back a high tide you know just where to go.


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## greg12345 (Jan 8, 2007)

good thread. i wish i always had the luxury of always fishing where the structure is but when we go down it is for family time and i have 4 little kids to entertain. so no matter what the beach looks like in front of the house i always throw out some fleas...sometimes there is structure but sometimes it is flat and i just put one set in close and one set out deep. circle hooks, light drag, sand spike it, and then forget it while i go play with the kids. change bait 2-3x per hour. have pulled in some nice mullets and pomps this way off a beach that is as flat as a board, go figure.


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

greg12345 said:


> good thread. i wish i always had the luxury of always fishing where the structure is but when we go down it is for family time and i have 4 little kids to entertain. so no matter what the beach looks like in front of the house i always throw out some fleas...sometimes there is structure but sometimes it is flat and i just put one set in close and one set out deep. circle hooks, light drag, sand spike it, and then forget it while i go play with the kids. change bait 2-3x per hour. have pulled in some nice mullets and pomps this way off a beach that is as flat as a board, go figure.


The legend I learned flea fishing from wanted the beach as flat as it could be from beginning to end. It makes it much easier to read once you learn what you are looking for......


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## greg12345 (Jan 8, 2007)

yeah i will have to practice some more skinny water fishing this summer


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## speckhunter80 (Oct 3, 2011)

I really hate to send someone to a competitors website but I made a post on NCangler that is very informative. Rather then try and cut and paste and download pictures, here is the link http://www.ncangler.com/forums/threads/33733-Reading-the-surf?highlight=reading+surf

BTW, I can not take credit for the info


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## don brinson (Apr 8, 2011)

very nice , lots of good info. thanks


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## Loner (Sep 9, 2009)

fishdrummer said:


> Headed back to Topsail for family vacation the 9th. Last few trips last year were to Kure Beach. I've caught my share at Topsail, but it really seems to be a guess and check method more than anything. Seldom do you see any real washouts to target, at least not within walking distance. I usually run 2 fishfinders during the day, one out as far as I can (not that far) and one 20-40 feet out. At night, depending on tide I usually keep the baits in fairly close to shore.
> Any hints to improve my luck in finding a hole to fish?


simple:...just do like 99% of those ace in the hole do it...(especially around mullet and speckled trout season)....just find someone CATCHING AND THEN BEAT HIM TO HIS SPOT THE NEXT MORNING!!!!!!......THAT IS THE #! SURF SPOT LOCATING DEVICE USED ON tOPSAIL BEACH.......there be some sorry fishermen down there........


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## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

LOL your THAT guy


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## Drumbeater (Jul 18, 2010)

^^ ha ha ha.... good stuff... I had that happened to me and i knew the guy saw me there the day before... I got right beside him (bout 20-30 yds down beach) go figure there was a turn out there and i did alot better than the day before... he wasnt back the next day haha


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

Have you ever been standing right next to a friend using the same bait, same rig, throwing it the same distance yet he is slaying them and you aint? Sometimes there is a fine line.....I had some guys shadowing me for 2 days last year and I was on the fish big time. They turned out to be right nice fellas even though they moved in on one of my holes but I could tell they had no clue what they were looking for so I went down, drank a few beers with them and told them to move 20 yards down. Poles started bending over 1 by 1 and of course I made some new buddies. They still to this day have no clue why but that's part of the deal.......


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## fishdrummer (Jul 16, 2006)

Great answers..I do try my best to read what I see. Often I will see what looks like a break in the waves, yet on the next wave cycle it breaks the same as another area. I understand what you mean about the shells, I also trust the birds going after the sand fleas. I like to fish alone, so if someone else is catching fish I will give them a wide berth, but I will take notice of where they are and what they are using..look for a similar spot.. I have had people move in on me before as well, dang a whole ocean and they have to fish 20 feet away..


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## Drumbeater (Jul 18, 2010)

Druminthesuds has given some of the best advice on here, excellent surf fisher, another one is Derek, i dont recall his screen name, Kingfish.. something? lol but Druminthesuds gives good info, Helped me alot a year or so ago... so thanks again.. Im not trying to tak any thing away from others, This is JMO


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

Drumbeater said:


> Druminthesuds has given some of the best advice on here, excellent surf fisher, another one is Derek, i dont recall his screen name, Kingfish.. something? lol but Druminthesuds gives good info, Helped me alot a year or so ago... so thanks again.. Im not trying to tak any thing away from others, This is JMO


Glad I could help! At 41 I have been surf fishing since I was 7 years old. Learned many things from a lot of old salts over the years but changed my approach 180 degrees a few short years ago. The man that "taught me something new" didn't have to but he did because he loved PASSING FORWARD what somebody taught him and I'm doing the same. I have learned a lot from this board as well which is what makes it great!


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## originalhooker (Nov 26, 2009)

w/ the weather pattern you'll have next few days, go the lightest tackle you feel comfortable with, the water should be gin clear & soft seas. Look surfcity south, use sinkers that will move close in, if you fish the outer bar, use sputniks to help with finicky bites...there some flounder in also.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

DrumintheSuds, clean out your PM Inbox...


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

solid7 said:


> DrumintheSuds, clean out your PM Inbox...


Ok give me a sec


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

PM cleared...fire away


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