# Circles, cannonballs and striper's.........



## robc22 (Oct 20, 2009)

I have always been a j-hooker using fish finder rigs when fishing for stripers. I believe my state will be mandating the use of circles for stripers next year. I experimented will circles this year and, well it stunk!..I could actualy feel the hook sliding out of the fish's gut and mouth without the hook biting the corner of the fishes mouth... What do you guys think about using a cannonball rig and deadsticking the rod rather than holding on to it? Also I wonder if a longer six foot leader or so would help? That is the fish having a longer run before the sinker hits the shocker knot and that helps set the hook........thanks in advance............


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## greg12345 (Jan 8, 2007)

Not a striper guy but the length of your shock should be long enough assuming you are not throwing with a 2 foot rod, don't think you need to increase your fishing leader. Deadsticking is fine, reduces the likelihood of setting the hook out of habit. Make sure you are using a big enough hook and that the hook is baited in such a way that it can do its job.


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## Bocefus (Apr 19, 2010)

Just curious, what brand/model cirlce hook are you using? Is it offset?


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## robc22 (Oct 20, 2009)

Bocefus said:


> Just curious, what brand/model cirlce hook are you using? Is it offset?


I am using the inline owner 10/0 ssw circle hook.............


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

I use mustad demon ultra fine wire 10/0 circles with a canonball rig. Caught more drum on it than striper as striper have been hard to find from the beach down here the last couple of years. Did get one striper on the rig and was hooked right in the corner of the mouth. I had the rod spiked and I make my canon ball rigs between 3-4'.


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## robc22 (Oct 20, 2009)

Cdog said:


> I use mustad demon ultra fine wire 10/0 circles with a canonball rig. Caught more drum on it than striper as striper have been hard to find from the beach down here the last couple of years. Did get one striper on the rig and was hooked right in the corner of the mouth. I had the rod spiked and I make my canon ball rigs between 3-4'.


Thanks for that.....I will try the mustard hook.......BTW the owner hook is a very slight offset hook.............


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## dsurf (Aug 5, 2003)

greg12345 said:


> Not a striper guy* but the length of your shock should be long enough assuming *you are not throwing with a 2 foot rod, don't think you need to increase your fishing leader. Deadsticking is fine, reduces the likelihood of setting the hook out of habit. Make sure you are using a big enough hook and that the hook is baited in such a way that it can do its job.



Could be wrong, but don't think Rob is asking about the length of the shock leader.....but about the length of the cannon ball leader. Most folks use 2-3 feet. I sometimes go to 4', especially if I'm using braid running line and braid casting leader (shock).....as it gives something to hold onto when hauling in a fat one. Obviously, 6 feet will present problems if your drop is 6' or less. I use 9/0 Owner hooks and deadstick if I'm not fishing a crowded area.


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## robc22 (Oct 20, 2009)

dsurf said:


> Could be wrong, but don't think Rob is asking about the length of the shock leader.....but about the length of the cannon ball leader. Most folks use 2-3 feet. I sometimes go to 4', especially if I'm using braid running line and braid casting leader (shock).....as it gives something to hold onto when hauling in a fat one. Obviously, 6 feet will present problems if your drop is 6' or less. I use 9/0 Owner hooks and deadstick if I'm not fishing a crowded area.


Yes, very much so.......I have never caught a red or black drum but it seems they take a bait a little differently than a striper........I was wondering with the longer canonball leader if I would get a better hook set on stripers than using the shoter leaders than are used on drum. Keeping in mind I will be dead stickin' my rod while fishing circles...I thinking giving the striper a little extra running room before the rig comes tight.... BTW, I fish a 12 om so I can have a good drop and usually have plenty of safe casting room...........


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

robc22 said:


> Thanks for that.....I will try the mustard hook.......BTW the owner hook is a very slight offset hook.............


JMO but any offset sucks! Tried gami's and lost fish. Haven't lost a hookup since switching to the mustads.JMHO...


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Cdog said:


> JMO but any offset sucks! Tried gami's and lost fish. Haven't lost a hookup since switching to the mustads.JMHO...


 I'm withya,Clay,not with drum,but stripers vmc is what I like,but I'm sure mustads are the ticket as well...


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## robc22 (Oct 20, 2009)

Cdog said:


> JMO but any offset sucks! Tried gami's and lost fish. Haven't lost a hookup since switching to the mustads.JMHO...


Yes I will switch to the mustards next season as well as try the longer canonball leader..........


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

Cdog said:


> JMO but any offset sucks! Tried gami's and lost fish. Haven't lost a hookup since switching to the mustads.JMHO...


CDog why do you feel the off-set on a hook is no good? How about the eye? 

Not being picky. 

Just value your wisdom.


Thanks.


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

robc22 said:


> I am using the inline owner 10/0 ssw circle hook.............


I use these and the 9/0's almost all of the time and 9 outa 10 times the fish is jaw hooked just like it should be with using circles. What kind of set up are you using? Just curious. When surf fishing, I dead stick. I use the Daiwa Emblem Pro and Pro A. I adjust the drag accordingly and I'm good to go.


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## robc22 (Oct 20, 2009)

RuddeDogg said:


> I use these and the 9/0's almost all of the time and 9 outa 10 times the fish is jaw hooked just like it should be with using circles. What kind of set up are you using? Just curious. When surf fishing, I dead stick. I use the Daiwa Emblem Pro and Pro A. I adjust the drag accordingly and I'm good to go.


I fish a heavy 12' OM as well as 12' 4m lamiglas glass rod that I wrapped my self. I use newell 332's with 30 big game as the main line. I fish a rocky area with a lot of mussel beds hence the need for the heavy main line.


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

Okay, didn't see where you were from. That makes sense with the heavier line. When I first started using circles I had the same issue as you, My problem tough, was I wanted to set that hook right from jump. Took me a bit but now I use circles across the board.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

the key to circle hooks is the bait size. in a lot of cases when Drum fishing we use big chunks or heads that tend to fill the hook bend that in turn WILL not let the circle rotate into the correct position for a good solid hookset. thus when a fish is thrashing in the wash will cause the hook to slip and fish to be lost. if you want to use big baits you need to upsize the hook......just my opinion of course.....


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## robc22 (Oct 20, 2009)

AbuMike said:


> the key to circle hooks is the bait size. in a lot of cases when Drum fishing we use big chunks or heads that tend to fill the hook bend that in turn WILL not let the circle rotate into the correct position for a good solid hookset. thus when a fish is thrashing in the wash will cause the hook to slip and fish to be lost. if you want to use big baits you need to upsize the hook......just my opinion of course.....


It just seems after the 10/0 hook size the gauge size of the hook increases dramatically..........I bought some 14/0 and 15/0 catfish circles by mail and they were as thick as a 16 penny nail!!..... I figure I will stop fishing pogy heads with the circles and start fishing fillets but I always liked the heads because the o2 in the gills made the head float off the bottom.........


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

Try the Gammi Big River Bait Hooks. They are kinda a cross between a "J" and circle. They come in 10/0 and 12/0 only and they are expensive, but they are worth it. The 10/0 is my go to hook in the fall for striper.


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## CJS (Oct 2, 2006)

Where did you hear that the oxygen in the gill makes the heads float?


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## robc22 (Oct 20, 2009)

CJS said:


> Where did you hear that the oxygen in the gill makes the heads float?


Well when you chum with them the heads float........rip the gills out and the head stinks......so............


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## CJS (Oct 2, 2006)

Ok


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Orest said:


> CDog why do you feel the off-set on a hook is no good? How about the eye?
> 
> Not being picky.
> 
> ...


Orest, JMO so take it for what its worth but a offset circle is not a true circle. A lot of people like the offset hooks as they are easier to bait a hook as opposed to a inline circle, well if it is easier to bait a hook it is easier to get off the hook.Fish I caught on the gammi's were easier to get the hook out than the mustads. A fish gets in the wash and rolls around, gets the line wrapped around him and creates slack and the hook rolls out. Again JMO, some say the gammis are too sharp and hook the fish inside the mouth not in the corner and that is why they pop lose. I haven't tried any offsets besides gammi's. But lost fish to them so wont use em.

As far as the eye I prefer the offset eye as opposed to straight.


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## Green Cart (May 14, 2002)

Maryland DNR strongly recommends the use of non-offset circle hooks. As for the eye, yes, I prefer the offset eye if possible.


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## robc22 (Oct 20, 2009)

So you guys are saying an inline hook with an offset eye??........


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

Thanks CDog.

I use the off-set Gammi eye and hook.

Will try the straight hook and off-set eye.


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## greg12345 (Jan 8, 2007)

my leader comment was based on you using a standard fish finder, not a cannonball, if you are using a cannonball then I think extra leader length may help but several feet is prob sufficient, don't know if you need 6ft.

the prob w/offset gami circles is that they are so sharp that the offset nature of them causes them to hook to early in throat or deep mouth, i.e. BEFORE they have a chance to migrate to the corner of the mouth...this seems to be more of a problem with large fish...i'm not a drum/striper guy but i have caught many big cats in freshwater that were hooked deep in the mouth/gullet rather than in the corner...and when they're hooked in this place the hooks have a tendency to fall out easier...you will lose big fish. non-offset hooks or hooks that are not as sharp do not tend to catch up inappropriately and can make it to the corner of the mouth where they hook. now panfish like pomps is another story...in my experience the gami offset circles ALWAYS hook the fish in the corner of the mouth and i am only using a 6" dropper loop with a sputnik sinker ...so the pomp inhales the flea, swims off 6" and is hooked...I swear by those hooks for pomps.


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## robc22 (Oct 20, 2009)

Thanks for the info guys I now have some new things to try this up coming spring......Sorry to be a pia but one thing leads to another....Maybe this should be a seperate thread question but.....with j hooks I could bury the hook in the bait and still get a hook set.....This let me really lay into my cast for distance but with circles much less of the bait is on the hook......How do i get a good cast off without ripping the bait off the hook in the process? again thanks in advance.......


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## Charlie2 (May 2, 2007)

Watch that offset! Any offset over about 4 degrees defeats the purpose of the circle hook which is supposedly designed to slide back out and hook the fish in the side of its mouth. You may as well be using a 'J' hook!

BTW; I have gut hooked fish even with a circle hook. JMHO C2


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Charlie2 said:


> Watch that offset! Any offset over about 4 degrees defeats the purpose of the circle hook which is supposedly designed to slide back out and hook the fish in the side of its mouth. You may as well be using a 'J' hook!
> 
> BTW; I have gut hooked fish even with a circle hook. JMHO C2


 Absolutly true.... Except I think the offset circle is not only like a j hook,but an inferior one at that.... jmho also..


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## thebigman (Jun 4, 2008)

robc22 said:


> Thanks for the info guys I now have some new things to try this up coming spring......Sorry to be a pia but one thing leads to another....Maybe this should be a seperate thread question but.....with j hooks I could bury the hook in the bait and still get a hook set.....This let me really lay into my cast for distance but with circles much less of the bait is on the hook......How do i get a good cast off without ripping the bait off the hook in the process? again thanks in advance.......


Might be worth trying a bait clip if you're fishing paternoster style


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

Charlie2 said:


> Watch that offset! Any offset over about 4 degrees defeats the purpose of the circle hook which is supposedly designed to slide back out and hook the fish in the side of its mouth. You may as well be using a 'J' hook!
> 
> BTW; I have gut hooked fish even with a circle hook. JMHO C2


Really.....I use BOTH across the board from flounder to shark and never really had a problem with them. Have I lost fish? Yup? But that was due to my mistake. Not the hook.


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## robc22 (Oct 20, 2009)

I will try both types of circles( offset and inline) this up coming spring and see which works the best for stripers.............


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