# First Reel Project



## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

So I got my supplies from Hatteras Outfitters in the mail today, and I'm starting to upgrade my pair of 525s. I'm switching stock bearings for ABEC 7s on one and adding four rare earth magnets and Red Rocket Fuel to both of them.

Pictures will be up as soon as I load them on my laptop.

But now that I started I'm running into problems. I took off the metal bearing retainer washer in the right side of the spool and now I'm having trouble putting it back on. Any tips or tricks on reseating the washer?

Also what is a good way to remove grease/oil from the bearings? I used to use 409 but I think that there has to be something better than that.

Evan,
aka KFM23


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## seajay (Dec 18, 2005)

I have found good ol lighter fluid works the best,does not leave any residue.


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## mud (Sep 23, 2007)

I soak the bearings in lighter fluid then relube and they work like new.


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## Sea Level (Nov 20, 2005)

KF23,

To me Seajay & Mud are correct about cleaning the bearings -- soak in lighter fluid for several minutes. An old 35mm film container is ideal for this task, because you can shake and agitate the contents. Remove bearings and let them dry on a paper towel. Then apply a drop of Rocket fuel or other high performance oil to the bearing and let it flow through,


I'm assuming the "metal bearing washer" on the right side that you are refferring to is the metal knob threaded fitting that you use to adjust end play on the shaft. It covers the shaft bearing on the right side plate and must thread in place over the rubber 0-ring, that together keep contamination from entering the reel internals. If so, this is at times difficult and has been the source of much consternation when I'm cleaning my reels. I have resorted to loud swearing. It always brings my wife, who with her delicate fingers and patience of a 30-year, early-childhood school teacher is able to get the cap threaded and I can then adjust the end play during the spin test.


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

if the bearings have shields. take off one side before washing.

makes cleaning and relubing later alot easier.

and since bearings are inboard. just face the open side, inside the spool.

like sealevel. i also use a old film case. love the cap. shake shake shake. and let it soak.

afterwards let it dry, before oiling. take your hairdryer, heat up the bearings.

then add oil

let it sit a lil.

your bearings wont be running at full performance until like a day or two later.

the oils need to soak into the balls before its actually nice.

so dont be disappointed after you pack back together the reel.


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## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

Thanks for the lighter fluid advice, sounds like just what I was looking for.

Sea Level:
Actually I am having issues with a metal washer that attaches to the spool right over the bearing to keep the bearing from falling out. If you remove the left side plate, pull out the spool and look at the right side of it, you'll see a silver washer there. That is the one I'm having issues with.

ooeric:
How do you get the shields off the bearings? At $22 a pair, I don't really want to experiment with removal techniques if I can learn the right way to do it.


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## Jesse Lockowitz (Feb 13, 2006)

ooeric said:


> if the bearings have shields. take off one side before washing.
> 
> makes cleaning and relubing later alot easier.
> 
> ...



what is the reason behind the heating of the bearings and what kind of oil are you using that takes a couple days to kick in?




kingfisherman23 said:


> Thanks for the lighter fluid advice, sounds like just what I was looking for.
> 
> 
> ooeric:
> How do you get the shields off the bearings? At $22 a pair, I don't really want to experiment with removal techniques if I can learn the right way to do it.


ive found that a fine tip needle works great, there is a VERY thin metal C clip on the inside rim of the bearings on both side, u can use the tip of the needle to pop the retaining C-clip, then the metal "shield" should just fall out if u tap the bearing on the table.

Jesse


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Jesse is right, a fine tip needle will do the trick. Sometimes it is a PITA but worth it to get a good cleaning and relube. Just make sure to turn the open side in, as others have said.

Tommy


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## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

*Finished! For the moment, at least...*

Finally got the job done, the second reel went much easier than the first.

The trick to replacing the retaining washer is to flip it over and put it back on upside-down. It will click right in to place. Also pulled the bearing shields, with some help from Jesse and Tommy, and got them cleaned out using the lighter fluid.

I added four 1/8" rare earth magnets (Radio Shack, 2 for $1.99) to the backs of the mag carriers as detailed in the Bible post. One reel got Red Rocket Fuel in the bearings, and the other got Quantum Red Hot Sauce. I plan on doing a side-by-side casting test next week to see which I feel better with.

Pictures and test results coming soon!

Any other suggestions about simple/cheap upgradesto the 525 Mag that I could try out?

Evan,
aka KFM23


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## SteveZ (Nov 30, 2006)

Hot sauce is a lot faster than RRF...


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## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

Yeah that is what I've heard. I'm thinking that the 4 extra mags will counter-balance the high-speed oil. It might be too fast, so I'm taking my supplies with me to SC and might have to do a quick re-lube down there.


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## sprtsracer (Apr 27, 2005)

kingfisherman23 said:


> Yeah that is what I've heard. I'm thinking that the 4 extra mags will counter-balance the high-speed oil. It might be too fast, so I'm taking my supplies with me to SC and might have to do a quick re-lube down there.


You will probably find them too slow rather than too fast. *IF* that happens to be the case, keep the lube the same and try removing two of the four magnets to start with and see if that makes any difference.


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## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

If you're using 6 magnets, is it better to have the extra two in the center positions or the outer positions?


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## sprtsracer (Apr 27, 2005)

kingfisherman23 said:


> If you're using 6 magnets, is it better to have the extra two in the center positions or the outer positions?


Put them in the center. They will just stick and hold underneath...no need to use glue or anything and the polarity will automatically be right.


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## alantani (Dec 12, 2007)

in many past reel repair posts, you've seen me open up bearings to clean them, but i've never had a complete discussion of one this topic before. i'd like to do this now. it's a post that is long overdue. for many reels, bearings are the weak link. they are often the first things that will fail. i will start out by saying that shimano recognized this and was the first company to actually do something about it. as of yet, no other major reel manufacturers have followed suit. i hope that will change. 

basic fishing reel bearing design is fairly simple. you've got an outer race, and inner race, the round chunks of lead themselves and a cage. the material almost always stainless steel. 










the biggest difference between bearings is the "side plate." avet and accurate bearings are sealed. the seal itself is often blue or black, and is made up of a phosphor bronze and plastic laminate that is simply pressed in. 










the majority of reel manufacturers use bearings with one of two types of metal shields. the first is a pressed in metal shield. 










the second type of metal shield is held in by a retaining ring. when you see a bearing with a metal shield, it's a 50:50 chance of seeing one or the other. 










and then there are shimano's open bearings. they are touted as having more chromium for greater corrosion resistance and are packed with a thin grease. 










so there you have it, your four types of bearings; plastic seal, pressed in metal shield, retaining ring with metal shield, and open. 

when servicing a bearing, the first thing you have to do is PULL IT OUT!!!!!! trust me on this one. there is nothing more frustating than having to pull a rusted bearing out of a rusted bearing cap. to this end, i made a couple of bearing pullers. the small one can be made from coat hanger material or stainess steel welding rod. one end is hammered flat, then bent to a 90 degree angle, and then shaped on a small bench grinder. it works pretty darned good!



















the other is made from a penn handle nut wrench. yeah, don't throw these away anymore! shape it the same way. 



















the other problem situation is specifically with some of the shimano reels. here is an old calcutta 400 spool. note that the bearing (well, bushing, in this case) is held in by a cross pin. 










we're going to remove the cross pin with a special tool. it's a ratty old pair of vise grips with a slot cut in one side. 










oh, c'mon, stop laughing! it's all i had laying around and i'm on a budget! anyway, i cut a slot in the side with a bench grinder. if i had to do it over again, i'd use the cut off wheel from my dremmel.










you just press the pin out half way, the pull it out the rest of the way and be careful not to mangle it up. remember, you need that pin!





































see, nice and clean! now find a bearing with the same dimensions as this old bushing, say 3x8x3mm, press the pin back in and you're in business!




























nice, huh!


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## alantani (Dec 12, 2007)

ok, back to business. let's all agree for the moment that we are going to clean out the bearing and we're going to to it my way. well, that means removing the seal or shield. we need a few more specialized tools. our first bearing is sealed. this one is either a piece of cake, or next to impossible. most are easy. you simply take a small scalpel (hey, one of the advantages of working in a hospital), slide the blade carefully underneath the shield, twist the blade just a little and the seal will pop out cleanly. so cleanly, in fact, that you should be able to pop it back it and it should still work perfectly. if you gouge the cage underneath you will have to replace the bearing, so be careful.



















this is actually a bearing from the drive shaft of the smaller avet reels. newer bearings are easy to service. THE SEALS FROM BEARINGS AROUND THE DRIVE SHAFTS OF OLDER AVET REELS ARE NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO REMOVE. you will know quickly if you have old bearings or new ones. 

to remove a metal shield that is pressed into the bearing, you need another specialized tool. this is an old screwdriver that i've ground to a nice long point. drive the point in between the shield and the inner race, the pry up the shield. it will be mangled at this point and will have to be discarded. this takes a light touch. drive the point in to far and you will mangle the cage and ruin the bearings. i tried using the point of a small swiss army knife for a bunch of small boca bearings and ruined the entire lot, about $100's worth. be careful!




























the last type is a bearing with a metal shield held in by a retaining ring. you need a small fish hook. see the end of the retaining ring? lift it up with the point of the fishhook right there. if you have trouble catching the end of the ring, get a sharper hook. 










sometimes it will go flying, so hang on to it if you want to see it again.










lift up the shield with the scalpel and don't gouge anything inside. 










want to reinstall the shield? simply put it back in place, then hold the retaining ring at the bottom, then push in the the right side, then the left side of the retaining ring and you're done. 




























now all the bearings are open. let's clean them up. first is the hemostat. this is the easiest way to hold a bearing.



















now, to clean these things. i've tried a ton of different products. here's the short answer. it's crc carb cleaner. of all the products i've used, this carb cleaner has the most pressure, and pressure is everything. nothing else i've used works as well.










now, i've talked about "carb cleaner and compressed air" before and several guys jumped in and said "no compressed air." i want to know that i took what you said to heart. since finding the crc product, using lots of compressed air has not been necessary. so i now use the crc carb cleaner to clean the bearing, and only a gentle stream of compressed air to remove the carb cleaner. 










now we get to lube them up. i was fiddling around with my "secret sauce" mix of corrosion x and shimano drag grease and it seems to stick fairly well. good protection, lousy freespool. typically i use corrosion x alone, um, in a reel x bottle. and for the bass guys, i have quantum's hot sauce, met-ol from smoothdrag.com and rocket fuel. lots of freespool, lousy protection. 










to get the maximum amount of protection, i always go back to yamaha outboard engine grease. 










i like to hand pack the bearings and replace the shields. it's the best way to avoid this.....










it's not necessary for any of you to maintain this type of inventory, but it might be a good idea to keep a couple of bearings as back up. it is very easy to damage a bearing while you're trying to pull the shield off. you do need to be careful.










i order all of my bearings from bocabearings.com, and i order them all "open and dry." unfortunately, i still pay retail so you're looking $1-1.5k in bearings in the photo above. after dealing with bearing issues for all these years, i've come to a couple of conclusions. for lever drag reels, i like spool bearings that are open and lubed with corrosion x. same with star drag reels. for side plate bearings and drive shaft bearings, i like them packed with yamaha engine grease. if the shields or seals can be replace, all the better. 

what i don't like is a bearing that has a seal or shield with only a light lube. once water gets inside, the bearing is toast. a shimano tld 15 has four bearings that cost $10-12 each. i've had reels that required replacements of all four. the avet sx, mx, jx and lx reels also have bearing issues. there are six and they are all sealed. i like to open up the two spool bearings, clean them out and lube them with corrosion x. the other four are opened, packed with yamaha engine grease, the seals are pressed back into place and the bearings are re-installed. i've even seen corroded bearings in accurate reels. the proceedure is the same as avet and i think it would greatly improve the reliability of the reel. yeah, working on lever drag reels is alot of work. 

ok, guys, that's it. hope this clears some things up. alan


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## mantriumph (Sep 12, 2006)

Thanks for the bearing retainer schooling,just in time


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

Wow. Looks like more Bible materal.


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## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

That is certainly an impressive and most instructive post. I'm glad my rather amateur project inspired you to post this up. 

I can understand using outboard grease on say a Senator or other big-game reel but for distance you need much higher viscosity (I think that's right). So what is your opinion on bearing lube for casting reels? 

Evan


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## mud (Sep 23, 2007)

Yeah another great post!! The outboard grease is for protection and the oils are for distance. I believe Alan was refeering to a boat reel or the handle side bearings for the grease.


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## jcbrock (Apr 16, 2007)

If a picture is worth 1000 words, your post is a most excellent book!! Thanks!


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## alantani (Dec 12, 2007)

i have guys swinging by the house all the time (keeping a 6 pack in the frig is critical). not all of them are offshore fishermen. there are alot of bass guys that need their reels hopped up for precision casting. i've only dealt with a few distance casting guys. in california, distance casting is an art practiced by a small and very select group. 

for what you do, my recommendation would be to strip down your reel after every trip. i'd pull the bearings out, clean them with carb cleaner, compressed air, and then relube them with corrosion x. hey, distance is everything. otherwise you'd just be casting over the first break......


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## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

*Test Results are In!*

Took my newly upgraded reels out to the beach Friday after a quick run to Bass Pro. One reel mounted on the 10' 4-8 oz OM with Quantum Hot Sauce and 6 mags, the other on the 12' 6-12 oz OM with 8 mags and Red Rocket Fuel.

I found out a few things. First, I was having problems controlling the spool during the load-up with 8 oz on the heavier rod, but the reel cast well with 8 mags and set to the 5 stop on the slider. Casting 6 oz on the lighter rod was much easier to control for the loading and cast well on the 5-6 stop with 6 mags.

I ended up switching the heavier rod out for the lighter version, giving me two identical setups that will throw 4-8 oz. Also decided that the Hot Sauce was a little too fast for my tastes. Relubed with Red Rocket in both reels and added mags to make both 8-mag carriers. Throwing 5 oz means using the 1 or 2 stop on the slider, up to 5 with a strong headwind (which there was on Saturday). Moving up to 6 oz requires 3 on the slider

With these setups and 6nbait I am consistently hitting 500-550 feet using 17# sufix tri and 50# Cajun shocker.

Tight lines and singing reels,

Evan


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