# IT Just dosen't seem right



## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

http://www.ocracokecurrent.com/47981

I know it's up to the individual not to go. But why would they let people come down when they know what's going to happen.
Some people might not have known what they were getting into, some had vacation fever and came anyway. 
Then if they don't close the island you can't use your trip insurance, So you're screwed there.
They sell the outerbanks as a family friendly place of old fashioned values.
Seems to me over the last 5 years or so it's been replaced with too many people who want to bleed vistors for as much money as they can.
I know they need our money to survive. But letting people come down this weekend just seems wrong to me.


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## drumchaser (Jan 14, 2003)

Well if the roads are open we'll be there.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Maybe they just figured that stupid is as stupid does, and since they're gonna be stupid, and go anyway, they'll let the locals make their money.

Living in a place that sees LOTS of tropical weather, I have become cynical, and have little sypmathy for people, anymore. Against all common sense, coupled with adequate warning, you've got the folks who just can't heed sound advice, and decide that they either need to "experience it", or have seemingly just have an overwhelming compulsion to gawk.

Hey, if someone's gonna put themselves in that camp, pay the inconvenience fee... It's up to the state/local/federal government in most places to decide whether or not to admit traffic. Can't blame the locals for taking profit. Businesses aren't in business to offer charity, so I'm not sure who you think the bad guy is here...


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## Eattheflounder (Apr 24, 2011)

My group had a house rented this week. We wrestled with the go-no go question. Friday, we received a call from the rental management company. They said please do not come down. This house will get sound side flooding, your vehicles will be flooded because the house is less than 5' over the high tide mark. At that point in my mind the house is unusable. My friends wanted to come down just to "ride the storm out" on the island.I have been through hurricanes before, and I understand that once you are there you are stuck, no changing your mind. Here is the rub, If we did not pay for the terribly overpriced insurance (It doesn't take an actuary to figure out what a rip off that fake insurance is). The roads are closed, I can't get to the house, I can't park there, The product we paid for is not available. We still pay rent. Yes, I blame that on the rental/management companies. Yes, that does affect my attitude toward the businesses on the island. Instead of viewing me as a person that is a customer, they view me as an expendable source of revenue that does not have to receive benefit after paying for their product.
Today, I am not stuck on the island, I have a week off of work, but I already spent the housing portion of my vacation budget on a house that I do not have access to. 
I love surf fishing, I love Hatteras. In the future I will consider going back to boat fishing, going to locations that will not leave me with these silly restrictions, and having the freedom to change my plans when these "acts of God" happen.
You can call people "stupid" if you want, I chose not to go, but there is a problem with the way the businesses on the island treat their customers. That is going to affect how people make their vacation plans. The Realtor was glad to take our check, but also to let us know that we would not be welcome to go to the rental.

ETF


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Eattheflounder said:


> You can call people "stupid" if you want, I chose not to go, but there is a problem with the way the businesses on the island treat their customers. That is going to affect how people make their vacation plans. The Realtor was glad to take our check, but also to let us know that we would not be welcome to go to the rental.


I don't think that's stupid, but then, I didn't get that out of the OP.

Can't imagine WHY they wouldn't refund you. Sounds like you have the high ground on this one. How is it that you would NOT push the issue to get your money back?

I've never heard of anyone charging someone rent, or non-refunding in this case. Good on them for telling you not to come, and you for not going. Regardless of refund, obviously, safety comes first. What would you call someone who put their deposit ahead of their family's safety?

You can always petition for a refund after the fact. It doesn't work like that with a life.


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

7 from my experience he won't get any money back unless it's from trip insurance. And then only if the conditions of the insurance policy are met.
That's why they started trip insurance- You want a shot at a refund then buy the insurance.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

I don't know anything about that, so all I can say is, good luck, but fight the good fight.... I'm a stubborn guy, so I would damn sure push the issue. Any ethical vendor should know it's their obligation not to charge you for services not rendered. I guess that speaks to the whole heart of the matter, though.


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## greg12345 (Jan 8, 2007)

I don't book in advance during hurricane season. Is the outer banks so crowded that you cannot get a house in late october early november at the last minute - I don't know as I usually hit topsail. But on Topsail I just keep on eye on the national hurricane center's site and if things look good I book a house several days before I'm coming down. You have to pay all at once on a credit card but on the flipside there are usually good last minute specials.


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## Eattheflounder (Apr 24, 2011)

Trip insurance would not have paid because there were no forced evacuations, I think that was Surffshrs original point. The insurance is a dirty deal. As is the house rental on the island. I think that Surffshers original point is valid. We will not get money back, we might another week if they are not booked . but to get 6 guys to work out a time in the next few weeks ,as the quality of fishing deteriorates into the winter , is going to the slim. Yes, there are things that we can do to try to come out better than we are now , but the rental companies have fixed a pretty dirty deal . fees paid without the use of the property . defend it all you want, it is still wrong , and probably will affect my vacation planning and location in the future . 
ETF


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

Greg
yeah, I had been considering that for next year. if you are willing or able to be flexiable in your cottage choice there are usually enough to choose from.


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## Eattheflounder (Apr 24, 2011)

We booked the trip 7 days in advance , at that point there were no threatening tropical storms .had we waited until the last day or 2 ,well I guess that would have been cutting it a little close .


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## HStew (Jan 8, 2009)

Read before you sign. Make sure you understand clearly what you have read. Watch the extended wx forecast. Take a truck (truck/camper) you can eat,sleep in etc. . Not everyone camps or likes to and it was not( in earlier times when our fish team did it) comfortable riding 3 to a truck and using 2 trucks, but we were fish nutty. We use to even load up 18' skiffs ( 4 men to a boat towing a second boat loaded with gear ). There are ways to balance the scales (pardon the pun) in your favor.


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## TomW (Jun 3, 2010)

We rented for two weeks in Hatteras, last week and this week. We listened to some locals and the realty company and left Friday evening due to proabable flooding, power outages, and probable road damage. The realty company said that there is a clause in the insurance about how long the road is not accessable and that they might pay depending on that. Until the ocean calms down it would be hard to fish, but might be great after that. 
Tom


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## notso (Jul 18, 2005)

I agree that the " no insurance, no refund" deal is really crappy. If you guys rememeber, back when Izzy came through, there were people who had houses rented for weeks after the storm that were damaged or destroyed and they still couldn't get their deposits back unless they had insurance. I have a brother-in-law who works in property management down there and he told me that it was that way because there was no form of insurance that the property owners/managers could purchase to cover lost revenue. Since it was available for renters, the responsibility fell on them......I personally still think it sucks. I also only rent on a day or two's notice usually because I'm looking for water temps and wind conditions.


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## Eattheflounder (Apr 24, 2011)

*I,m not so sure that I understand what you are saying*



HStew said:


> Read before you sign. Make sure you understand clearly what you have read. Watch the extended wx forecast. Take a truck (truck/camper) you can eat,sleep in etc. . Not everyone camps or likes to and it was not( in earlier times when our fish team did it) comfortable riding 3 to a truck and using 2 trucks, but we were fish nutty. We use to even load up 18' skiffs ( 4 men to a boat towing a second boat loaded with gear ). There are ways to balance the scales (pardon the pun) in your favor.


Hey HStew, Are you saying that going on to the island with a truck ready to camp in, and then camping in it in the tropical storm/hurricane if the house is unavailable?

ETF


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## jakuka (Oct 12, 2009)

Not sure which realty company you had but many will let would let you switch to another available house.


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## rsqchief5 (Jan 5, 2009)

Last year, when Irene rolled through, I was unable to get a refund on the house even though Hwy 12 was impassable. The Rental company told me that the island was accessible. I just had to drive all the way to Morehead City, get the ferry to Ocracoke, then the ferry to Hatteras. I had to pay 30.00 to get a ticket on that ferry and I couldnt get on the ferry for my check in day, I was a day late. I had bought a return ticket (another 30.00) but was able to cancel it because 12 opened up the day before I left.


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## Eattheflounder (Apr 24, 2011)

We requested another house, just because my buddies wanted to have the experience of riding the storm out. They said, no, don't come here. At this point there are no ferrys and the hyways are flooded, and covered with sand. 
It would have been foolhardy to go.
I think that Surffshrs original point holds true here. "It doesn't seem right". I agree with his point. 
The weather has cleared up down at Myrtle Beach, and the cold front has moved in. Maybe I can spend my money there and catch some spots for a day or two. When I got hurricaned out down there, I received a full refund even after I spent one night. They want my business in the future more than outer beaches realty does.
Too bad I can't get any of my buddies to go along, and I can't take my kids out of school
ETF


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## HStew (Jan 8, 2009)

The only time I ever booked in advance is when going to Portsmouth or Davis in the fall. Try to stay ready at the drop of a hat. When it's time to fish you just can't give a damn about anything else, that's all there is to it. I guess that frame of mind is a holdover from commercial days.


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## dumdrum (Oct 24, 2010)

*To just clarify*

I'm responding to the posts (at the request of my husband) just to clarify "storm" issues. Although I do not currently live on teh island anymore, I did for 6 plus years and worked in property mangement, holding a real estate license. I applaud everyone who wisly opted not to ride out the storm. It can seem like a lot of fun but is seriously a very dangerous position to put yourselves in. My husband was member of the rescue squad in Buxton and they frequenly put their lives on the lines to help people who had no business being in such situations. Having said that, reatlty compies are agents of the owners only. They recive a commission to rent the homes, but financial desicion rest with owners. Owner are under no obligation to return rents paid in the state of north carolina under teh vacation rentals act as long as reasonably priced travel insurance is offered... ie under 15%. The going rate, I belive, is still around 12.5%. This covers a huge variety of travel related issued. Having said that, you would only get a refund under a mandtory evacation if insurance is pruchased prior to the sotrm being named... if you did purchase it, I highly recommend you contact the insurance company - given teh nature of the storm, they may still be able to help you out. If you did declined on your lease the insureance, the owner is under no obligation to refund your money. This is something most real estate comapioes will present tot he owner, but are not required to refund. Keep in mind, your deposit has already been dispured in part to teh owner. Some very speical owners will refund the money entirely, but most good owners will at least offer a comporable week instead. Please don't bash the real estate companies, this is the state law. (Please excuse spelling).


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## jakuka (Oct 12, 2009)

dumdrum said:


> I'm responding to the posts (at the request of my husband) just to clarify "storm" issues........



Thanks for sharing. Good stuff to know.


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## Eattheflounder (Apr 24, 2011)

Thanks for the input, I understand that is how it works. Because there is a law does not mean that it is right, or good business. There was no evacuation order, so once again, the insurance would have only been more wasted money. The law does not make the practice morally right. To tell me not to come to the rented house and still take money is not right. You are right, there is a law.
My goal is not to anger people, it is to illustrate a real inequity in the system. If nobody speaks up, things never change.


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## Eattheflounder (Apr 24, 2011)

Oh, I see your point, I was blaming the management companies. Ok, that is a fair defense and you presented it well. 
Please forgive me for negative comments toward the management companies.
I still feel that there is a real inequity in this system, legal or not. 12.5 %or 15% , do the math on weeks that the island is under evacuation. That is far from fair. As I have repeated multiple times, it doesn't matter, It wouldn't pay this week. It just would have been twelve or fifteen percent more lost money. 
As I said earlier, please forgive me for any negative comments about the managers. 
Surffshrs original comment still holds true.
My comment would be " just because a property owner can do it, doesn't make it right." To charge money for no value received is wrong.
ETF


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## dumdrum (Oct 24, 2010)

Definitly understand your point and you're right - it just sucks. The real injustice is that Dare County did not issue a mandatory evacation for non-residents, knowing darn well that wash out of hwy 12 was likely. Hopefully the owner of the cottage you rented in understanding. I would recommend waiting until the company has had a change to access damage (both on personal property and then rentals) and request them to contact the owner about a alternate week - that won't make up for your time off of work, ect... but hopefully the fish will still be biting.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Eattheflounder said:


> My comment would be " just because a property owner can do it, doesn't make it right." To charge money for no value received is wrong.


There is nothing untrue about that statement.


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

dumdrum said:


> Definitly understand your point and you're right - it just sucks. The real injustice is that Dare County did not issue a mandatory evacation for non-residents, knowing darn well that wash out of hwy 12 was likely. Hopefully the owner of the cottage you rented in understanding. I would recommend waiting until the company has had a change to access damage (both on personal property and then rentals) and request them to contact the owner about a alternate week - that won't make up for your time off of work, ect... but hopefully the fish will still be biting.


EXACTLY-- what I wanted to convey. The effects of this particular storm was not in question. For vistors sake and locals with limited resources it was just wrong to let more people on the island to get trapped,


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## greg12345 (Jan 8, 2007)

Did the NHC's site really not show anything 7d in advance? I mean they will show even a tropical wave off the coast of Africa and that usually takes 2-3 weeks to get to the coast in the form of a hurricane (if it does continue to form from wave -> depression -> storm -> hurricane). I would think that Sandy would have been apparent 7d in advance. Trust me 2d is not cutting it close - those rental companies are happy to oblige and charge your card at the last minute...If I have time off and beach looks like a no go then I grab the ultralight gear and head to the mountains for some fall camping/trout fishing...


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## Eattheflounder (Apr 24, 2011)

Thanks to MS DumDrum I went to the NC Vacation renters act. I am NOT a lawyer, and I do not know court precedent. On the other hand It looks to me like this only applies to the property being unavailable due to forced evacuations. 

42A‑36. Mandatory evacuations.
If State or local authorities, acting pursuant to Article 36A of Chapter 14 or Article 1 of Chapter 166A of the General Statutes, order a mandatory evacuation of an area that includes the residential property subject to a vacation rental, the tenant under the vacation rental agreement, whether in possession of the property or not, shall comply with the evacuation order. Upon compliance, the tenant shall be entitled to a refund from the landlord of the rent, taxes, and any other payments made by the tenant pursuant to the vacation rental agreement as a condition of the tenant's right to occupy the property prorated for each night that the tenant is unable to occupy the property because of the mandatory evacuation order. The tenant shall not be entitled to a refund if: (i) prior to the tenant taking possession of the property, the tenant refused insurance offered by the landlord or real estate broker that would have compensated the tenant for losses or damages resulting from loss of use of the property due to a mandatory evacuation order; or (ii) the tenant purchased insurance offered by the landlord or real estate broker. The insurance offered shall be provided by an insurance company duly authorized by the North Carolina Department of Insurance, and the cost of the insurance shall not exceed eight percent (8%) of the total amount charged for the vacation rental to the tenant less the amount paid by the tenant for a security deposit. (1999‑420, s. 1; 2005‑292, s. 3; 2009‑245, s. 2.).

When we are told "do not come down, the area will flood"". "we do not have another house to put you in."that is the management company telling us that the property in not available. 42A-36 does not apply because there is no forced evacuation. 
Back to the original point, If the last paragraph is in fact true and is precedent, But vacationers are still being told by the management companies that this law says "no insurance, No refund" the renters are being bullied. If however, court precedence has twisted things to their current state, shame on our state government and courts.
DumDrum, and Ms. DumDrum Thank you for your polite refutation, you did get me on the right track. since i don't have work today I can spend the day reading.

ETF


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## OldBay (May 15, 2003)

My wife and I have been visiting Hatteras Island in the fall for years. We just returned from a two week trip to Rodanthe on Saturday barely ahead of the storm. Last year we were the first group of tourists to be allowed on the island after Irene. I always figured that the chance of losing the cost of the rental was factored into the rental rates during huricane season. We rented a 4Br house on the beach for $1,200 per week ($2,400 for 2 weeks). That is pretty darn cheap. Figure you lose one vacation out of every ten. Factor the cost of the lost vacation over the rest and you still have an afordable trip each year. Sucks to lose a week or two of fishing but that is the cost of planning a trip to an island during storm season. I am surprised that the rental company didnt make any attempt to find you lodging anywhere else. Couldn't they have put you in Kitty Hawk or Duck? Wouldn't be the same, but you probably would have felt better about it.


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## aln (May 29, 2006)

greg12345 said:


> I don't book in advance during hurricane season. Is the outer banks so crowded that you cannot get a house in late october early november at the last minute - I don't know as I usually hit topsail. But on Topsail I just keep on eye on the national hurricane center's site and if things look good I book a house several days before I'm coming down. You have to pay all at once on a credit card but on the flipside there are usually good last minute specials.


There are some properties on Hatteras Island (especially oceanfront) that if you don't book well in advance then you will not get the property. I just returned from a week down there and when I got home the first thing I did was book a property for next year. I booked the property the first day it was available for advanced reservations and that property does not have a vacancy from the first of may till november already. 

I had a property booked last year when the storm came through and even though the island was accessible the house was damaged and unrentable. In that case the rental agreement covered the refund. The trip insurance is not required to buy .. just a decision you have to make and each circumstance can be different. For people booking (relatively expensive properties) 9 months in advance it's probably a great idea because it covers alot of extenuating circumstances over a longer period of time, if your booking within a shorter timeframe .. probably not so much. And one other thing to keep in mind is that the OBX is a very unique and dynamic place that is extremely vulnerable to somewhat minor natural weather events so anytime I reserve property there I take the insurance.

just my $.02


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## Eattheflounder (Apr 24, 2011)

greg12345 said:


> Did the NHC's site really not show anything 7d in advance? I mean they will show even a tropical wave off the coast of Africa and that usually takes 2-3 weeks to get to the coast in the form of a hurricane (if it does continue to form from wave -> depression -> storm -> hurricane). I would think that Sandy would have been apparent 7d in advance. Trust me 2d is not cutting it close - those rental companies are happy to oblige and charge your card at the last minute...If I have time off and beach looks like a no go then I grab the ultralight gear and head to the mountains for some fall camping/trout fishing...


Greg12345, Did you mean that seriously? For the last 6 months there have been multiple tropical depressions in the Atlantic on any given week. Using that criterion no one could ever book a trip to the OBX. 
Look, yes I am disappointed that my vacation was cancelled. I will get over that, that is just how life works.These things happen. it does make me grumpy though. The issue here is a problem with the way money does or does not get refunded to renters that are denied access, or have the common sense to not use the rental during a hurricane/tropical storm It also plays to the disrespect shown to renters by the real estate owners on the island.


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*Rentals*

We own a small cottage in Rodanthe...Every April for the last 14 years except last year we rent a large cottage in Hatteras for a family vacation...Over the years I have found out first hand that the rental companies are all pretty much the same...Eager to take your money and will do anything possible to keep it...Some years everything was fine and some years it seemed like they could care less about problems..One year they were building next to us and for a week we listened to hammers and saws all day starting at 6:30 am. On top of that all the workers spent the day drooling at my daughters and their friends. They were to the point that they wouldn't even lay out on our decks...The rental company pretended like they had no idea about the major renovation next door on one of their own cottages....This was for a 6,000.00 dollar a week rental. Bottom line is that once you pay they really could care less. I am affraid that I have rented my last cottage on Hatteras Island...last year we went to Duck Key in Florida and had a much better time. Aside from the Drum fishing in the surf there is really nothing that interest me on Hatteras island. No good places to eat and the wardens bug the crap out of me most of the time. I feel like the they are looking for an excuse to hassle people. Most are military rejects that wanted to be Rambo but just couldn't get past the gatekeeper or were one organ short I guess. Now they spend their time hasseling surf fisherman that are trying to relax and forget about their military days. They have made it impossible to enjoy the spring Drum run with the closures. Mission accomplished Park Service. As far as the rental companies not careing, they didn't care long before the closures and loss of revenue.


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## greg12345 (Jan 8, 2007)

Yes I meant it seriously but am not trying to disrespect you, etc. Sucks what happened and I do not agree with it. I would still suggest waiting until 2-3d before arrival before booking a house in the off season...if hatteras is so in demand then that you cannot do that then I'm glad I do my fishing elsewhere in SE NC, almost no one at the beach when I go (deserted, and I like it that way), and the rates are much cheaper than the OBx for comparable houses. Understand that if you are drum fisherman then you may need to target certain places...but if not there's plenty of big pomps, flounders, and small pups all up and down the SE NC coast...


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