# Your opinions and thoughts wanted :



## surffisher (Aug 26, 2002)

Okay guys and gals lets get a real discussion started. I would like to know if anyone else out there feels the surf and pier fisherman are not fairly treated when it comes to the size regulations. Lets start with the flounder regs. between my buddy and myself in the last three weeks have caught and released around 150 to 180 flounders and put two legal fish in the cooler. This is absolutely stupid. Don't get me wrong We had a ball, but I feel again we are paying the price for the boaters and commercial fisherman. I just about flip when I see a 10" flounder in the market. Maybe they should have a different set of regs for pier and surf anglers. Say 3 fish a day over 15" or something like that. I'm not trying to empty the bay the commercial guys are doing a good enough job of that already. Just look at the crab situation, enough said. As you know we only have so many places to fish as it is. I have more thoughts, does anyone else.

surffisher


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## Richmond Medic (May 28, 2002)

hmmmmm......not a bad idea. i dont think the state would go for it though. i do think its unfair commercial guys can keep fish we have to let go.


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## FL FISHERMAN (Sep 30, 2002)

Yeah I agree with catch and release but sometimes I think that we are just releasing them so the commies can net em up later. I think they need to raise some of the size limits so coms don't kill our population of fish. Maybe then there would be more keepers for us to C&R and to keep a few. But like Richmond said politics won't have it.


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## gotcha6/0 (Jul 13, 2003)

Yeah i think that would be a good idea i was on Seagull a few weeks ago and some guy caught like 20 somethin flounder all day and not one of them was a keeper. But i dont think the state would do that, be nice if they did though. I mean c'mon flounder have to be what like 17 1/2 inches thats crazy they dont get too much bigger then that anyways. Ive seen some good size ones but they are rare and im happy if i catch one thats like 10 inches.


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## keezy (Jul 1, 2003)

I think the flounder size limit has something to do with how large they need to be to reproduce. 
I agree that it's unfair what the commercial fisherman are doing. Fish traps and commercial trawling in the bay should have stopped years ago. I found these figures on the VMRA website: 
Economic impact from recreational saltwater fishing in VA = $330 million.
Gross commercial catch = $26 million.
Its too bad were not better organized.


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## Wilber (May 20, 2003)

Let's see Special rules for people fishing from a pier or from the surf, I think not. Seperate but equal, we tried that in the past, I didn't like it.
Pier and surf anglers have a different set of problems than boat anglers. We have to wait until the fish come into our zone, we can't go where they are like a boater can. But, that doesn't mean we can't catch keeper fish, we just have to alter the times that we fish to agree to the times the fish are there.
I have fished the surf and piers all my life. I have caught 4 lb. Flounder off the Grandview Pier, I have caught 7 lb. Specks in the Kitty Hawk surf, but, not every time I go.
I have caught two 4lb. Croaker this year from the beach, just fish at night when they come in to feed.
My point is, if you choose to fish from the pier or shore, that's your choice. But you don't need your own set of rules.


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## hic-lock (Jun 27, 2001)

Well my experience with commercial fishermen is their not in it for the money. My folks and friends use to seine the Carova, Carrolla area of NC. I couldn’t understand as a kid why they would leave so many fish on the beach. It’s an easy answer: They had too. They weren’t allowed to take the fish out of the slot, so they would rot on the beach! My friends, I would much rather see those smaller fish, and even the larger ones (bigger reds out of the slot for example) in the market or ON MY DINNER TABLE. Those nets are hard on the fish and there just isn’t any way to revive them. 

To me there’s just no explanation for that kind of waste!

Size limits are the fuel for all of the waste we hear of, the poundage one takes should be the measurement. Not to mention all the recs that take illegally, and we’ve all seen that!

BTW: Good points Wilber! Hey I’ve seen that pic before, on the MoWire maybe!

FISH HARD


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## Wilber (May 20, 2003)

Hey Hic,
Yea that shot has been around, the MoWire, a couple Mag covers and a lot of message boards. That is my oldest son (now 20) on Thanksgiving Day on the beach in Kitty Hawk, NC. and yes it was a cold, cold day.


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## hic-lock (Jun 27, 2001)

Right-oh Wilber, thought it looked familiar, good to hear ya poken around here. Nothing like seeing your kid pull in a keeper. And they love it when they can out fish Dad 

Just checked a local boating board and there still hammering the big flounder. The fishing restrictions may not be perfect, but something’s working.

FISH HARD!


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## 1mocast (Jul 11, 2003)

I really feel ya on these fishing regulations, I've been out fishing many a day and threw back over 10 fish that were under Reg. Only to stop at the fish market to buy fish smaller than the ones I've just released. I don't think its fair--I've even went as far as no longer fishing for Flounder at my favorite holes, I think this really is not the result they were looking for with the size regs. but that's were it has taken me. I no longer can go out and enjoy my favorite pastime without always pulling out my chart to check regs. of different species. I can agree with a creel limit and I can also go with a size limit as long as it is within reason. but 17.5" for a Flattie is rediculous.
The good book say everything from the sea with scales and fins are good---Only to have the state say it's not---Whatever happened to seperation between church and state. The bible says I can keep it---The state says I can't


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## bassn (Jun 12, 2003)

I know this is probably going to rub a few of you the wrong way, but it is just my thoughts 


I think that the state should raise the flounder size limit to 21 inches for 2 years. (without active protests of the commercial fishing industry, we will never get them to improve their techniques to protect the smaller fish). The reason I say raise it is this: I fished rudee inlet on the railing for a few weeks adn caught nothing but small flounders 171/4 and less. I finally caught a keeper--just 17 1/2 inch adn I through it back. Everyone on the wall said something to me about thowing it back. Any all of it was condosending(sp). I couldn't believe it. I think the reason all of you don't catch many keepers is because most of you, and I am not pointing fingers at anyone, keep every single one that is 17 1/2 in and bigger. Practice catch and release sometime. Only you can solve the problem. 

Do you really think that allowing people to keep even smaller flounder than 17 1/2 in. is going to solve the problem? I don't.

Again, I don't want to offend any of you. I too would like to be able to go out and catch a decent fish sometime to take home, but how can we if we are not giving the fish a chance to grow up?

Todd


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## bassn (Jun 12, 2003)

If my thought was unclear to anyone, on the third year I would like the size limit back down to 17 1/2 inches adn we all will have plenty of keepers in the bucket-I promise.

todd


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## surffisher (Aug 26, 2002)

GREAT this is the response I was looking for . Now what can we do about it?. I'll tell you another thing we better keep an eye on the stripers cause their netting the s**t out of them too. I guess it won't be to long till we'll have to wait another 7 or 8 years to catch them. 

Dave


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

Well sounds like sourgrapes from the peanut gallery. 
The flounder regs(rec)for the last two years have been put up for a vote/input by the VMRC. VA had to reduce their catch by a percentage because we had gone over the quota. And Jack Travelsted (SP sorry) monitoried the results one option was 3 fish and 15.5 inches, but he told me that they did not get many of those(I asked him after a meeting, he is very easy to speak to as are all involved). The info was posted here this spring By Tom Powers(or a CCA Alert) if I remember correctly. The real answer is get involed. Join the CCA or another fishing club since the groups have abit of clout and will alert you when there is something important is happening. Oh if you don't like something about a organization it is easier to change from the inside.
Get involved!!!!!!!! So at least you can say you tried. I know some of you are involved but I suspect most are not. I need to be more involved myself. Here is a link to the calendar of events for the VMRC.
http://www.mrc.state.va.us/calendar.htm


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## Wilber (May 20, 2003)

*Diggers Right*

You can go to meetings, these guys are easy to talk to and your input is needed. I was involved in the begining with the SWL and my suggestions were acted on.

PS You want bigger flounder, close the season on the East Coast to Recs. and Coms. alike for 3 years. It worked for Stripers. Besides there are other fish to catch than Flounder.


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## bassn (Jun 12, 2003)

I agree Wilber.


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## Richmond Medic (May 28, 2002)

yeah i kinda like that 3 fish at 15.5 in. all i want is some to eat. im not all about filling my freezer as full as possible. the reason we keep every fish right at 17.5 is we might not get another legal one. ive cought like 15 flounder this year and the closest one to legal was 16.5!! i would be happier if i got 3 at say.... 16 in than 1 at 18. i just wanna catch some keeper fish. if fisherman cant keep fish "in the slot" why cant they sort through them and let the undersize ones go?? im not complaining, im just curious... i dont know the regs for comm. fisherman.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

I'm with Wilber on this one. A moratorium would do wonders for the stocks.

While we're at it, I think there should be a full 3-year moratorium on blue crabs, but that's another issue.

I was in Lexington Market yesterday to grab some crabcakes at Faidley's and saw tons of fish on ice. When I saw a bunch of tiny flounder and stripers my blood boiled. The only way I could soothe myself was with a beer


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## ccc6588 (Jun 20, 2003)

It doesn't make sense to me that the size limit for the trout is so small (12 inches). I say it should be at least 16 inches. 

I think there should be a closed season for flounders for the shorefishermen during the summer when you catch mostly small ones anyway. 

Eight 17.5 inch flounder is a lot of fish and the boaters could achieve this very easily. I think you should only be allowed to keep 5 maximum. For most shorefishermen it is not easy to catch 5 large flounders in a day. 

A slot limit could be used like you can keep one fish 15-17 inches and 5 maximum. The other four must be greater than 17 inches. The way it currently is, the boat owners have a major advantage.

I know in the Eastern Shore, some of the boaters slay them big time. It's rare that they get checked out like the shore fishermen.


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## Richmond Medic (May 28, 2002)

yeah... i do like the slot limit idea too. if it works in freshwater lakes and rivers we could make it work here. 3 fish between 15-16in and 2 more over 171/2 or something like that. we dont deed 8 fish per person per day. you dont need to keep 8 flounder a day
thats too much. at least i think so.i think if you close the flounder fishing for a year you would hurt the fishing industry around here. wouldnt you???


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## Kajun (Jul 13, 2003)

all i know is i've caught ATLEAST a hundred flounder this year and NO KEEPERS....there is no reason a man cant keep a few flounder to eat for him or his family no matter what size when commercial fisherman are depleteing stocks and selling undersized fish in markets.......


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## Wilber (May 20, 2003)

I talked to the guy who was taking the money at Grandview Pier last night. He's not haveing too much trouble catching Keeper Flounder, a dozen keepers and the biggest was 4lbs. (not all last night) Just the other side of the pier house. All you gotta' do is know the game.


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## surffisher (Aug 26, 2002)

Yes I think a two or three fish slot would be great. I would put this on flounder, Trout ( specs & grays ), striped bass & red drum. I also believe we should remove ALL netting ( except to catch minnows and mullet for bait). Let the commercial guys either use fish pots or hook and line. Also to address diggers comments about vmrc meetings. Why are they held at 9:30 am.I would say 80% of the outdoorsmen are working at that time. Do you vote for the people that are on this board? are they appointed by the governor. How do we replace these people if we the majority don't agree with them. 

Dave


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## tigerbytes1979 (Mar 22, 2003)

*Sandbridge size limit*

I'm sure I'll rub a few nerves raw here, but when I was fishing at Sandbridge a few weeks ago, I was amazed that hardly ANYTHING was tossed back. As at any pier,the regulars seemed to enjoy kidding each other about how small the fish was that their friend just caught, but guess what - into the cooler it went until the cooler was filled. I don't even think some of them could have qualified as fish McNuggets at McDonalds. Not trying to bash Sandbridge as I'm sure it happens everywhere, but I had just not seen it this casual and non-chalant.


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

Not all of the VMRC meetings are at 9:30AM. Actually the fisheries issues generally start at about 1:00 PM, which I realize is not much better.

There are finfish committee meetings (FMAC) most every month. The next one is on Tuesday night at 7PM. The agenda items for Aug. have to do with the Commercial black sea bass fishery and restrictions in SAV beds due to prop scaring. The overwhelming evidence is that the damage is due to haul seine fishermen but some of the proposals will close the areas to recreational fishing. Other proposals will be to study it for another year even though the areas in question have been damaged for 10 of the past 13 years.

To boot you have the chance to voice your support or objections to projects that will be funded with your fishing license money. That meeting is at 7PM on Sept. 8th.

On flounder yes there it was a known deal that the pier fishermen and up river fishermen (like me) would take a hit when the limit when to 17.5. But guess what on grey trout it was the pier fishermen who turned the tide and got the 12 inch limit vice a 14 inch limit.

Tom

PS I am on the finfish committee. You can direct your specific requests in my direction or just post them on this board and I will try to see that they get considered.


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## ccc6588 (Jun 20, 2003)

I think in the US we are truly blessed. There are abundance of good quality fish both freshwater and saltwater. You just have to know the best times to catch a particular species at your particular spot. This is called establishing a pattern. Establishing a pattern is one of the fundamental skills of the fishermen and it may take years to develop. In order to be a good fishermen you have to develop this skills in addition to many other skills, which is called outdoorsmanship. Outdoorsmanship is understanding weather phenomenon such as climate, wind, tide, moon, water temperature, etc. Outdoorsmanship is knowing how to match and protect your gears and tying proper knots. And the most important part of outdoorsmanship is being a good sportsman and protecting the wildlife for future generations because we enjoy the joy that it brings and want others to have the same opportunity. 

Fishing for keeper flounder on the shore in the middle of the summer means you have not established a pattern and it will cause you a lot of frustrations. I really think the flounder fishing should be closed on the shore in the summer for a brief period of time as too many small fish get hurt. That being said, I think the creel limit for flounder of 8 fish 17.5 inches is to lenient. 8 fish over 17.5 inches is a lot of fish. I have given away flounder to other fisherman after catching 2 or 3. I like the idea of a slot limit of 1 or 2 and a maximum of 5 fish. If there were no boaters, I would just go with a limit of 3. 

I don't have any problems releasing croakers and the like, but it would be very difficult for me to release all the flounder I catch. My wife loves flounders and she tells me not to catch so much croakers, but make sure I catch a few flounders.


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## Topsailbum (Apr 10, 2003)

like all other government based meetings the vmrc holds their meetings at 09:30 am so that the average "fishermen" cannot get off work and attend. that way there is no opponents to what they want to do


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## onion (Jun 15, 2003)

I'm glad there are size limits on flounder, there are more nowadays and they are bigger than in the past, the future looks bright. But, it really boils me to see people keeping very small spots and croakers. Spots are very much on the decline and are getting smaller each year. I remember when croakers were small and few in number. Everyone should practice conservation and start throwing the little fellows back to live another day and reproduce. I agree with past posts that if you want keeper fish then all you have to do is learn how,when and where to fish for them, they are there for the taking....


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## ccc6588 (Jun 20, 2003)

Yes,

I would like to see a size and creel limit on all species. Stripers are back because of careful conservation and this has been a great lesson. I know there are different theories on why we don't have the same sized blues like we used to 15 years ago. Some believe that everything goes in cycles. My own opinion is that over fishing has a lot to do with it. 

I sure do miss catching larger sized blues and sea trouts through out the year. They are just so much fun to catch. If it is one thing I would love to see again, it is the blues coming back in number and size in the Bay. To me the large blues were the ulimate sport fish in the Bay.


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## rockhead (Nov 6, 2002)

well I have enjoyed everyones opinions on flounder fishing. but I am going to go against the opinion of the majority and say the 17.5 in limit is good, although a year ago I was ranting about upping the limit to 17.5 in. I have learned something very important about flounder fishing. First of all let me say that I dont remember catching a single keeper this year on bait maybe 1. but I have caught more quality fish this year than all others combined... on artificials! using mostly jigs after dark I have found the average size fish I get to be 21 in. .. now I have a freezer full of big flounder fillets. I believe that upping the limit a year or two ago has produced more big fish, and I would bet that boaters would agree. I personally would rather go out and come home with one 21 incher vs. 3-4 15 inchers. I think the regs are a move in the right direction, I dont know about making the min. size limit 21 in but 18-19in would be ok. now the problem with the commies oh I mean commercials well thats another story..


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## jay b (Dec 1, 2002)

Limits and regulations are generally made by fishermen for fishermen (yes, I do realize that not everyones likings are always catered to) for the simple fact that those fish are in decline and need help. A lot of folks here have said it, but pure and simple; if you don't like the way things are being run, then find someway to get involved and try to make a difference. All the finger-pointing and name calling doesn't do s#!t. We don't have to like the rules, but we do have to follow them (I can't drive 55 but I try) and that's where we as surf-fishermen can start. Learn the size limits and how to gently & sucessfully realise a undersized fish and if you want to catch keepers, well try something different and keep on fishing!! As far as the commercial guys go, they're regulated too (not enough IMHO) mostly by total weight of their catch and as for their undersized catch and different size limits, I don't know about you but I've never seen sucessful release of a net-caught fish, I think they call it "by-catch".Let's wake-up guy's, we don't need to fill our coolers every time we go, I thought it was called "Sport-Fishing" for a reason, otherwise we are no better or different than the commies. As far as the rules that J.C. gave us ,well that was fine for back then but those guys didn't have GPS or fish-finders.


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## keezy (Jul 1, 2003)

Rockhead - what kind of jigs do you use to fish after dark? do you fish in the same places you would fish in the daytime? 

Any help is much appreciated. I'm up to about 20 flounder now this year and no keepers. I'm starting to get a complex!


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## surffisher (Aug 26, 2002)

Maybe I can direct this question to Tom Powers or anyone else that has a thought. Is there anyway it could be worked out with an electronic response on the issues of the VMRC MEETINGS. This would be a way that we could voice our opinions, prior to the meeting starting. I know we probably can't get the time changed to the evenings. Just trying to get everyone involved. Maybe it could be made a part of the agenda, that way they would be in the minutes for everyone to see.
Dave


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## Freddrum (May 19, 2000)

Now I'm REALLY gonna P**s everyone off and say yeah.....the limit SHOULD be 17.5 for flounder AND there should be a limit on Rocks in the bay and all the way from NC to MD like there is up the coast. 28" and up for stripers...this IS the breeding ground for Christ's sake. But the ENEMY is Omega.....put the rapists of the most important part of the ENTIRE food chain out of bidnezz and the rock, blues, spanish and every other predatory species will come back. As well as the crab population which are being decimated by fish with nothing else to eat. And you wonder why a 40" Rock weighs 18#'s, crabs and croaker don't have the fat content of a nice fattie bunker........to bad they're all gone thanks to the spotter planes and vacuum boats. Fight back people!


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

Freddrum good to hear from you. I agree with you on the Bunker situation. As far as the striper lenght the bay season would have to be changed and possibly run need to run with spawning seasons so people would have a real oppertunity to land a keeper. Which I would have to opose. Or it would be a ocean only season cutting out the people who live around the bay and rivers.
On flounder I wish it was not 8 per person, 3 fish would be about right.


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## rockhead (Nov 6, 2002)

I definitly agree with freddrum on the bunker. more bait=more fat fish. hey if everyone stops using wd40 maybe they'd go out of business.I disagree on the striper ..my favorite size to eat is under 28 in.

keezy, let me spell it out for you. I fish at the lesner w/ 1/2 oz jighead and a pearl colored zoom superfluke body.


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