# Abu 6500 UltraCast vs. fixed axle spool



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

So, I've read all of the stuff out there about UltraCast vs. the old fixed spool reels. I was too young to care back in the fixed spool days. For those of you who fish the Abu 6500's, let me know your opinion. Is the UltraCast, with all of its limitations, really the superior casting reel? I mean, in the right hands, is the fixed spool just as capable? (say, with 4oz of lead or higher)

I've got some old vintage reels, and I've not fished them. I use the sideplate internals, because I DO believe that the old "metal guts" are vastly superior to the newer reels. I am working on designing and building my own custom reel, and I'm at a debating point of which way to go. I can't decide, because I just don't have the experience with fixed spool to know.

One thing I really like about fixed spool reels, is the ease of adding a loud clicker. A metal cog on the spool takes care of that problem, right now. And, of course, the beefier/more rigid shaft. This, in turn, also translates into the ability to add line capacity. (by not having to make the larger bore for bearings.

Help me out, experts. Extol to me the virtues of the old reels. I hear guys swear they can cast them just as far, but I haven't seen it with my own eyes.


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Solid,

FYI - Fixed spool = Spinning reel.

I think you are refering to the older style 6500 with the bearings (or bushing) mounted in the end cap like the modern day 7500.

When I read the title I was preparing for another ford vs chevy debate... 

Tommy


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Tommy said:


> Solid,
> 
> FYI - Fixed spool = Spinning reel.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I may be confused. I thought the "fixed" part referred to the shaft not rotating relative to the spool. (but in tandem with it) Would it be clearer if I said "fixed axle spool"?

Bad terminology, but the question still stands...

EDIT: Wow, I see what you are saying, Tommy. Your clarification turns my post from a troll into an actual topic.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Please note, I had conjuctive-head-in-rectumitis. Per Tommy's correction, and Al's title fix, all instances of "fixed spool" should be "fixed axle spool". Hopefully, that will help spawn an actual topic, instead of redirecting traffic from one of those "other" threads.


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

Who wants to bet a sand eel blitz reference won't be mentioned?..lol


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

AL_N_VB said:


> Who wants to bet a sand eel blitz reference won't be mentioned?..lol


Wow, first to threadjack is the mod. I'm getting too comfortable around here..


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## mylobass (Jan 29, 2012)

Yesterday I received my first custom made Jerry Foran 4500c.. Its a fixed spool. It is hands down the best reel I've ever handled. I can immediately see that the fixed axle spool is superior. If for nothing else, the easy of bearing maintenance. To learn more about the superior design of a fixed axle spool, search google under his name and there is a fantastic article the explains the reasons comparing a newer 6500 to the pre ultracast design.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

I definitely believe that the vintage quality is better (or I would not have dredged up the concept) However, I need to get some sort of quantitative analysis to benchmark a 6500...

Thanks for the reference. I have read a couple of different authors on the subject, but I'll check that one. The impression that I walk away from most "vintage" Abu Garcia guys, is that they aren't as concerned with casting distance. (they seem to be in love with the cast, though) I will have a look, however.

Still like to hear from some of the tournament guys. I seem to remember hearing awhile back that one of the big boys was using a fixed axle spool. What did you do to "hotrod" these reels? What parallels can be drawn to modern reels, or what concepts can be revisited, in light of other advancements? (i.e., ceramic bearings, etc)


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## mylobass (Jan 29, 2012)

The pre ultracast spool is believed to be stronger from virtue of the outward bound bearings and fixed or solid shaft. Less flex when casting a heavier bait. Some think a ultra cast spools axle flexs and allows the spool to grind into the frame. Also a traditional antireverse is less likely to engage the gears mid cast with heavier weights.


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## Hooked Up (Feb 6, 2009)

i bet earl scruggs wouldnt of fished a ultracast...............threadjack


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

lol


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

From a pure distance prospective I would have to give the edge to the Ultracast. Spool is lighter and floats free (no end tension).

Plus, if the pre-ultracast design were indeed better for distance, I ASSURE you that every top level tourney guy would be throwing one and that just isn't the case.

Tommy


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Hooked Up said:


> i bet earl scruggs wouldnt of fished a ultracast...............threadjack


Gotta say, that was a totally sweet threadjack... 

Solid7 approves.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Tommy said:


> From a pure distance prospective I would have to give the edge to the Ultracast. Spool is lighter and floats free (no end tension).
> 
> Plus, if the pre-ultracast design were indeed better for distance, I ASSURE you that every top level tourney guy would be throwing one and that just isn't the case.
> 
> Tommy


I hear what you are saying, and from an engineering standpoint, I agree. The big question on my mind has to be - is there a happy medium to be found here? Any real reason why the fixed spool (a spool with outboard bearings) HAS to have end tension, as opposed to a slight bit of float and knock, as with an ultracast? 

I can't believe that the friction generated by the bearings sliding in a slightly free running journal would be any different concept than the axle sliding in the bearings of an ultracast spool. Unless I am missing something, the big difference would be contact at the end of the axle, which would impede rotation. (could be lessened by making the end that contacts the tension cap spherical)

I also understand the rotational mass is greater with the fixed axle. Are the fixed axle spools steel or aluminum? In other words, can they be magged?


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## big brother (May 15, 2002)

Steel or Aluminum spools? It makes no difference. See Lenz's Law. It's all rotational mass and eddy currents.
charlie


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

big brother said:


> Steel or Aluminum spools? It makes no difference. See Lenz's Law. It's all rotational mass and eddy currents.
> charlie


Perhaps I don't understand this quite correctly. My understanding was that the effect is amplified in non-ferrous materials, such as aluminum and copper. Here is a quick quote I pulled. I'm no expert on magnetism, so I may be taking something out of context.



wikipedia said:


> When q2 is inside a conductive medium such as a thick slab made of copper or aluminum, it more readily reacts to the emf sent to it by q1. The energy of q1 is not "instantly" consumed only as heat generated by the current of q2, but is also stored in two opposing magnetic fields. The energy density of magnetic fields tends to vary by the square of the magnetic field's intensity; however, in the case of magnetically non-linear materials such as ferromagnets and superconductors, this relationship breaks down.


From what little that I do know about magnetism, ferrous materials produce very different reactions than non-ferrous. Hence, the nature of my question...


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## kingfish (Feb 28, 2004)

The limiting factor of all abu reels are the sideplates. But "Ain't She Pretty".


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Bill Dance was big on ABU Red sideplate 5000's-6000's back in the day in fact that is where he got started on TV

An old Millionaire II is smoother than an old 6500


6500's in the proper hands on the proper rod on a OBX beach will all ways out cast a Spinner man......opcorn:


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Garboman said:


> Bill Dance was big on ABU Red sideplate 5000's-6000's back in the day in fact that is where he got started on TV


Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.



Garboman said:


> An old Millionaire II is smoother than an old 6500


And a new 7HT mag in my hands will outcast any 6500 all day long. (and still smoother)



Garboman said:


> 6500's in the proper hands on the proper rod on a OBX beach will all ways out cast a Spinner man......opcorn:


Barking up the wrong tree here. You can't troll a troll.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

kingfish said:


> The limiting factor of all abu reels are the sideplates. But "Ain't She Pretty".


Not exactly all... The Morrum and UC reels solved the problem nicely. But it introduced other problems, and at the very least, people just didn't want to pay the extra pay for that quality of reels, without stepping up to a whole different price point.


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## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

Garboman said:


> Bill Dance was big on ABU Red sideplate 5000's-6000's back in the day in fact that is where he got started on TV
> 
> An old Millionaire II is smoother than an old 6500
> 
> ...


Oh god here we go. Spinning vs. coventional. Even though conventional cast farther. I was made a believer one day on the pier


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## kingfish (Feb 28, 2004)

I stand corrected, all the ones you have talked about in your threads of how to make the ultimate one. Believe me, u have to sacrifice one thing to gain another when tampering with the reel, the best innards of all the variations could be placed in a single reel to accomplish one thing but you would sacrifice another quality for a different usage. The sideplates limit them more than any other variables, JMHO


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

NC KingFisher said:


> Oh god here we go. Spinning vs. coventional. Even though conventional cast farther. I was made a believer one day on the pier


Really? Is that what you take away from Garbo's post?


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

kingfish said:


> I stand corrected, all the ones you have talked about in your threads of how to make the ultimate one. Believe me, u have to sacrifice one thing to gain another when tampering with the reel, the best innards of all the variations could be placed in a single reel to accomplish one thing but you would sacrifice another quality for a different usage. The sideplates limit them more than any other variables, JMHO


Oh, believe me, I know what you are saying, and I agree. 

I have almost made a breakthrough in designing a system that incorporates most of the advantage of the UltraCast, while eliminating most of the disadvantage of the fixed axle spool - yet using elements of both systems. The biggest challenge is engaging the drive gear, but when I get that figured out, it's a done deal.

Of course, it won't be with mostly Abu parts. At this point, I'm just educating myself, so that I can make good design decisions. I am still building "Johnny Ugly" reels from my massive parts stash, so I'll be toying with Abu reels the whole time. (both vintage and modern)


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

A few years back I decided to take apart an old Abu 5000 that had a clicker
It had the spring type drag system

Any way I was wanting to substitute a newer Abu drag washer system to better handle a Drum
and then load it with 12 pound test and chuck it off of Avon Pier during a Drum bite, just to play with the Kinnakeeters and get them riled up with how long it took me to get the fish into the net. 

Luckily for all involved, my attempt was unsuccessful and due to failing eyesight I lost patience and ended up trash canning what had been a perfect vintage Abu 5000 with green side plates and a clicker.

So ended my career in Abu modification, now I just clean them up and leave the tinkering to the experts and the more patient..

Evidently the Spinner fellas did not take the bait


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Garboman said:


> Evidently the Spinner fellas did not take the bait


This is an "only in North Carolina" thread...


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## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

solid7 said:


> Really? Is that what you take away from Garbo's post?


Yes that is what i take away. I am a single minded hypocrite Since my cheap tidewater conventional that i could get 80+ yards(un magged) with fell apart, i am back to spinning and can only get about 60 to 70 yards


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