# Help me tie a better shock knot.



## Skeletor (Jul 26, 2006)

So this doesn't happen again.











And this was on at least my 10th cast with the same knot and weight on my sinker and bait. Can the know get loose in the water? When it happened, I heard what sounded like the knot hitting one of the eyes on the rod. Is something wrong or was it just bad luck?


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

3 turn Spider to a no-name. Practise practise. Things should be fine. You will blow up sometimes but most of the time it will not be the knot.


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## thebeachcaster (Aug 7, 2006)

Does anyone use the double-uni for a shocker? It's what I use and I love it, but more than one guy tells me he hears it hang one an eye in a cast. I want to stick with what I got but if ya'll think I should try something else, I will.


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## Fishbreath (Nov 11, 2004)

What Digger said is tried and true. If you don't like that one though, try an Albright.


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## bstarling (Apr 24, 2005)

*Small knot*

I'm not sure if this is the Slim Beauty or just something similar but doing an overhand or figure 8 in the shock and a uni around the shock makes a strong and small knot. I have had very few problems with this one. You have to put the running line through both loops of the fig 8 and pull it good and tight before you pull the uni up to it Also spit all over it so it will all slip into place. This knot also puts the shock tag, which can hit the guides, to the rear unlike the Albright which puts the shock tag to the front. Normally I cut the tags as close as I can get them after the thing is snubbed up and then put a drop of Super Glue on the whole mess. I've never had one slip at all. 

Bill


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## barty b (Dec 31, 2004)

Thats the one i use,never a problem


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## cobiacatcher82 (Sep 19, 2006)

improved blood knot, i believe thats what it is called, its a simple blood knot but instead of having both lines single, you double up the smaller lb test, example: 20lb line 40 lb leader... double back the 20lb test and go along with the process. I've never had a problem with that one


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## cobiacatcher82 (Sep 19, 2006)

*slimmys*

o yea forgot to mention some other stuff ...slim beautys have broke on me a very few amount of times, possibly only once....had plenty of allbrights break on me though..


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Ditto what Digger said, use it on my level winds with no problem. Improved blood, will be broke in a half second by th knot tester...


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

I have tryed the others and I break them quite easily with my hands. I used the Noname all by itself for a long time (I began using the NoName Tarpon fishing in the Keys back in the late 1970's.) The Shocker knot is fine for just casting but will break with pressure.


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

Skeletor said:


> So this doesn't happen again.
> 
> And this was on at least my 10th cast with the same knot and weight on my sinker and bait. Can the know get loose in the water? When it happened, I heard what sounded like the knot hitting one of the eyes on the rod. Is something wrong or was it just bad luck?


Bad luck. I've sent a good bit of un tethered tackle flying in the direction of Italy myself.

Key words here might be "hitting the eye on the rod". Doesn't matter what kind of knot you tie, if it gets stuck in a guide foot, it's going to untie.

Seems like with a conventional reel, chances are less likely of that happening, but obviously it still can. 

I've used a number of different knots for shock leaders, and sooner or later I manage to pop stuff off, no matter what knot it was. Usually when one pops, there was a guide on the rod involved. I even mananged to rip the first guide off of a rod with a stuck shock knot. 

Whatever knot you decide to use, make sure it's tied good - look at it with a magnifying glass and give it the yank test before you start using it.

Casting too hard is what usually causes problems for me, did you put a little extra juice into the cast that made the seagull nest ?


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

It's not the knot, it's prolly the crappy reel you got. I'm more than happy to dispose it for you.   


Alll kid aside.... I've been using bimini and no-name or bimini and double nails combo, I haven't got a knot stuck on the guide yet...(knot of wood) Just make sure you keep you rod tip up on the cast. Another you should use is triple surgeon and no-name. Very slim and glide thru the guide.


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

Surf Fish said:


> Casting too hard is what usually causes problems for me, did you put a little extra juice into the cast that made the seagull nest ?



Most of the time this is the problem or you get a side ocelation(SP) going.


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## Black Beard (Jan 25, 2001)

This is the one I use - BB

http://neilmackellow.sea-angler.org/knot6.html


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*I use the someone BB does*

learned it from Mark Edward on the casting field.


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

Same as what Digger said


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## Skeletor (Jul 26, 2006)

I had an Albright on there. I know it was the knot getting hung on the eye because I felt the entire leader go out and the knot even rubbed my thumb on the way out. Yes, I did try a little extra into the cast and I probably should have coated it with cement. I'll try a spider this weekend.


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## derekxec (Apr 26, 2006)

you dont need a shock leader just use a bite leader and youll be fine without making the birds a home


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

derekxec said:


> you dont need a shock leader just use a bite leader and youll be fine without making the birds a home


I don't know what you are throwing but the setup in the pic wouldd not be happy with less than 4oz. And you do need a shockleader for that.


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## Black Beard (Jan 25, 2001)

Digger said:


> I don't know what you are throwing but the setup in the pic wouldd not be happy with less than 4oz. And you do need a shockleader for that.


AMEN to that! 

4oz of lead has little respect for skin or bone when it impacts - BB

ALWAYS USE A LEADER WHEN SLINGING LEAD


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

derekxec said:


> you dont need a shock leader just use a bite leader and youll be fine without making the birds a home


please dont give bad advice. 



also another thing you could be overlooking. if you have a long shock, like 3x your rod or something your more likely to hit your knot on a guide, and thats the kind of thing that creates that kinda blowup. if you finish your cast down and your tip is down, and your line is flying up BOOM knot hits! 

i used to have this problem ALL the time, until i stopped having so much shock. try using 3-4 wraps on your reel then your drop.


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## DickDog (Jul 19, 2006)

*Is this a 15-25 lb Rod?*

From what i can tell....For that setup you should be using around 15lb test with a 30lb shock. If your line combo is too thick obviously it will make a larger knot. Usually it is the eye at the tip which causes the snag. Make sure your setups/rigs all match.

If your line sizes are right then its gotta be the way your tying the knot or as ntkg said...too much shock leader. I usually do about 2 wraps and place the shock to one side of reel so it doesnt have any chance of hitting thumb on release. 

Also check to make sure youre not subconsciously letting thumb touch spool while bait is in flight. 


Oh yeah...make sure your lines not wrapped around the tip of your rod....you might be able to cast but it wont last long.
Good Luck


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## JEG (Jan 16, 2004)

Heres little tip i've learned throught trial and error. The shockleader knot sometimes snags on the line when casting and causes backlashing or break-offs. So, When your reeling in your line and you get to the shockleader knot place it to the right side of your spool. When you reel in the rest of the shock leader wind it on the left side of the shockleader knot and do not cross back over the knot. I hardly ever get a break-off during a cast now. Try it and see if it helps.
JEG


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*I do this mostly to save my thumb*

sometime can't get the thumb out of the fast enough and the knot will cut your thumb, also winding the bulk of the shockleader to one side makes it earier to grip the spool during the cast.


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

try putting the knot on the left and thumb the right side of the spool...works for me...


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## Lip Ripper (Dec 8, 2003)

JEG said:


> Heres little tip i've learned throught trial and error. The shockleader knot sometimes snags on the line when casting and causes backlashing or break-offs. So, When your reeling in your line and you get to the shockleader knot place it to the right side of your spool. When you reel in the rest of the shock leader wind it on the left side of the shockleader knot and do not cross back over the knot. I hardly ever get a break-off during a cast now. Try it and see if it helps.
> JEG


thats what i do and it make a big difference to me.

also when i am going for as much distance as possible i turn my mags down to where im flirting with desaster. and after the release the reel is faster than the weight can take slack, and i get a big arch in the line between the reel and the first eye. if it gets to big iv had it wrap around the first eye(not only will it break off, but it can screw up your guide) , but if it doesnt get out of controll your weight will catch up and it makes for a sweet cast


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## Teddy (May 14, 2006)

*Question*

What are the benefits of a surgeons loop then a noname to the loop? I don't understand why you would want 2 knots compared to 1. I dont think I want 2 knots on my reel or the extra 1 in my main line. Ted


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

Teddy said:


> What are the benefits of a surgeons loop then a noname to the loop? I don't understand why you would want 2 knots compared to 1. I dont think I want 2 knots on my reel or the extra 1 in my main line. Ted


Tie one with a single line and one w/ a double line and test which one is stronger. I haven't found any single line knot stronger than double.


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## Teddy (May 14, 2006)

I understand the theory behind double line verses single line, since I have never tried this type of shocker I am sceptical of casting both spinning and conventional reels with 2 knots instead of 1, also I tied up the knot today and even though the surgeons loop knot is small the noname to the loop is pretty big since you are doubling amount of line. Since this type of shocker is widely used I will give it a try.Are Neil and Digger talking about the same knots ? Thanks Ted


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

No name is one of the smallest knot out there. Check the picture


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## clpoudnine23 (Dec 21, 2005)

*second knot...*

The knot made when doubling your main line will not cause any problems. The size of a bimini twist or an Assie braid knot made with 17 or even 20 pound test is VERY small. It is the shock to main line knot that occasionally will cause the trouble so you might as well double it up. JMHO..


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*Guide size*

of your rods can sometimes be an issue.

Some manufacturers try to get away with smaller guides. Surf rods should if anyhting have slightly oversized guides to allow the knot freedom to flow. Can't tell from the picture what rod your using, just thought is might be an issue.

I use the spider to a double-uni or reverse albright. No problems with conventional, usually if I have problems it's braid wrapping around a spinning guide. Not Fun !


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## Skeletor (Jul 26, 2006)

11ft Tica.


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

I have a 12' tica conventional and I use the spider to no name knot and have had no problems with it. I am still being gentle with it as this is my first year but I finally got close to the outer bar this past week and no blowups. 

However you may want to inspect your guides for tiny slices/cracks. I had a new 9' tica spinner that kept slicing my braid when I cast. At first I though it was the braid then I realized there was a curved slice in the guide inset that was slicing my line. Now I did not have a shock knot on that rod but if I did I am sure it would have snagged. Tica guides are notoriously fragile. I know I have replaced 3 tips already (2 broke off during shipment).


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## Teddy (May 14, 2006)

Crawfish, I realize now, the knot you posted , is not the same knot that is posted on Neils page, Nice picture and it looks to be much smaller than the other one. I will start tying them up this weekend for practice and sea what I get. Thanks Ted


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## Teddy (May 14, 2006)

*Size of Spider Hitch loop*

How long of a loop are you tying the NO-Name to?


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

as short as you can tie the shockleader on to it, but no longer than a wrap around the spool.. i like to make mine about 2" or less from the 2 knots.


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## Teddy (May 14, 2006)

The smallest so far for 3 wraps is 6in. I will keep tyin, I sea the advantages to the knot, just never used it. Went from Albright to Shocker Knot to I am going to get it down to 2in and dam send that dancer over! Thanks Ted


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

Teddy said:


> The smallest so far for 3 wraps is 6in. I will keep tyin, I sea the advantages to the knot, just never used it. Went from Albright to Shocker Knot to I am going to get it down to 2in and dam send that dancer over! Thanks Ted


That's why I suggested using the triple surgeon knot you can tie that loop very short and it's as strong or stronger. I haven't tested, but ask Drumdum, he's the official knot breaker.

Or use a knot tying tool for spider hitch.


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

CrawFish said:


> That's why I suggested using the triple surgeon knot you can tie that loop very short and it's as strong or stronger. I haven't tested, but ask Drumdum, he's the official knot breaker.
> 
> Or use a knot tying tool for spider hitch.


Crawfish, didnt I read over on the RDT board where somebody said they tested and a double surgeon was stronger than a triple? 

Just curious, because I use a double myself


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

TreednNC said:


> Crawfish, didnt I read over on the RDT board where somebody said they tested and a double surgeon was stronger than a triple?
> 
> Just curious, because I use a double myself


Test it and let me know. I use a bimini so I know it's stronger than any other out there.


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## Teddy (May 14, 2006)

Just finished tying the double and triple surgeons loop connected by a no-name and I am impressed not only by the strength but for the small knot size of both type knots! This will be my new shock knot until I perfect the Bimini Twist! Thanks to all Learn somin new everyday.........Ted


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

*shock knot*

Don't know what the knot is called, but ya tie your line end to the shock leader with a knot. Wrap your line end about five times up the leader and then five times back and pull tight. I just started using shock leaders and it's worked well for me.


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## jlentz (Sep 11, 2005)

I used several knots and the combination that has not failed at the knot and has only got caught in guides once is the Bimini twist to a to a Uni-knot with a double overhand in the Shock leader. I have used this knot without retying for a few days and have never had it fail. The Slim beauty is a nice small knot but I have seen several fail. The first wrap on the leader eventually constricts around the leader and will eventually cut the leader right at the knot. If you retie every few hours you might be OK but I would rather tie a knot that I am confident in when I have a nice fish on the line. Once you double the line with a Bimini twist even a bad knot in the double line or shockleader will probably test stronger than the main line. I try to keep the double line to a minimum and always put the knot to the right of the spool.


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## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

I'm partial to the bimini twist and slim beauty myself. It makes for a nice, smooth knot that doesn't have any abrupt "changes" in diameter. I use it because I can tie it fast, with no tools other than clippers. I don't know about the "cutting through" issue because I use a fresh shock leader for each trip, retying a bimini twist in the main line and then a slim beauty. The other nice thing I like about the slim beauty, nail knot, or uni is that you can tie the bimini any size you like and then trim it to the length you want.


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## gundalba (Oct 29, 2006)

Just for a variety sake,

If you use braid under 50# and throw sth. more then 5 Oz, or want some additional insurance.
Here is what I do to cast anthing 3 Oz. and over on my 30# braid.

Aussie Plait with the loop in lenth of desired shock leader. You will hardly ever can tell when the knot portion is passing through the guides.   

Troy


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