# Dawn Patrol in the Golden Isles...#64



## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

Billy and I decided to brave the CRAPPY weather, and hit the bridges this morning. We had some live shrimp, Gulp!'s, and fiddlers, but struck out on the mud minnows. We dang near struck out on the fish, too...

We hit this bridge...










This little pier...










And this one, too...










And here's all we had to show for it...He bit a Gulp!










Some kind of snapper, I guess, and two toadfish... 

I swear I got a whiff of the Skunk as he went by...Or, was it the BANANA  in Billy's truck...?? 

Anyway, we went fishing, in true SSC fashion, i.e...Weather and conditions be damned...


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## Jesse Lockowitz (Feb 13, 2006)

heh good report. cant smash em every time.

thats a lil black sea bass. them , and the little 10" groupers nail gulps here all day at the coast guard channel. pesky lil buggers.


Jesse


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

Jesse Lockowitz said:


> heh good report. cant smash em every time.
> 
> thats a lil black sea bass. them , and the little 10" groupers nail gulps here all day at the coast guard channel. pesky lil buggers.
> 
> ...


Not saying you're wrong, Jess, but it didn't look like a black bass, the fins are all wrong...The pic doesn't show it well, but this one doesn't have the swooped point on the tail, and the rear part of the dorsal isn't rounded enough... I've looked all over, but I can't find a good match...

Anybody else got an opinion??


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

too many dirsal spines and tail is wrong for a BSB....but idk what it is....just what it aint...which doesnt help because weve covered that, so ill shut up now


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## surfsidesativa (Jul 14, 2006)

Pretty sure it's BSB.


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## allaroundfishin (May 13, 2006)

Baby BSB just colors alittle differnt cause the water color but pattern is right, shape is pretty close atleast as far as i can tell fins well then are right also


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

look at the tail


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## surfsidesativa (Jul 14, 2006)

Jaw is set wrong for baby gag. I still say BSB.


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

Here's a BSB...










Note the rounded rear dorsal, and the swooped tail...

This ain't it... Note the differences in the dorsals and tail...










However, we're no closer to what it actually IS...opcorn:opcorn:


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

exactly


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

I've been hunting fish ID sites for an hour, and I'm sick of it...

I'll send a pack of Gulp!'s (your choice) to whomever finds me CONVINCING evidence to ID this damned fish...

I am sole judge, jury and Gulp! sender...


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## Al Kai (Jan 8, 2007)

To my non-educated eye, it really looks like the black sea bass in the picture minus the whippy top portion at the top of its tail.


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## Jaron15 (Aug 14, 2007)

Family Serranidae, SEA BASSES AND GROUPER
Mycteroperca microlepis



Gag grouper
<a href='http://server4.pictiger.com/img/1408480/picture-hosting/groupgag.php' target='_blank'><img src='http://images4.pictiger.com/thumbs/1d/6b139530d2a96a4305a8e336c497601d.th.jpg' border='0' alt='Image is Free Hosted By Pictiger.com' /></a> <br /><a href='http://server4.pictiger.com/img/1408481/picture-hosting/blackseabass.php' target='_blank'><img src='http://images4.pictiger.com/thumbs/c3/d1d4ae569d0fc3253517c6c83f5549c3.th.jpg' border='0' alt='Image is Free Hosted By Pictiger.com' /></a> <br /><a href="http://www.pictiger.com" target="_blank">Upload Images with PicTiger</a>
Black sea BAss


good enough for a bag of gulp?


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

look at the dorsal spine on a RR's fish it has 8 dorsal spines....bsb have more....morphological features rarely change


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## Jesse Lockowitz (Feb 13, 2006)

no gag there..

BABY black sea bass...


if it aint ill send YOU a pack of gulps.



Jesse


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## surfsidesativa (Jul 14, 2006)

It is either a BSB or Gag and we've got both lately but I am almost sure it's BSB.


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## Jesse Lockowitz (Feb 13, 2006)

TreednNC said:


> look at the dorsal spine on a RR's fish it has 8 dorsal spines....bsb have more....morphological features rarely change


morphological smorphological....


from the words of an awesome movie..dumb and dumber..

"KICK HIS ASS SEABASS!"



Jesse


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## emanuel (Apr 2, 2002)

The smaller ones inshore look a little different from ones offshore. I think it has something to do with salinity, temperature, etc. There's a rock seabass and a bank seabass but they have longer tails. My guess is that it is indeed a seabass, just a little different looking. The small ones offshore sort of look like the one you're holding.
I'll take a bag of the curltail 4" minnows please.


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## Jesse Lockowitz (Feb 13, 2006)

i want a pack of the 3" squids in white please    


Jesse


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

After my research, I am CONVINCED that it is NOT a BSB. But I don't know what it IS...

If someone can reasonably explain why the tail's not right, the dorsal spine count is off, and the dorsal ray is shaped wrong, but it is still, in fact a BSB, I'll send the Gulp!'s...

Telling me your opinion, however will not get the package in the mail. 

It ain't a Gag, either...

opcorn:opcorn:


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## Jesse Lockowitz (Feb 13, 2006)

like calling a spot a croaker 


Jesse


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## tom_s (Oct 20, 2006)

sea robin??


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## Jesse Lockowitz (Feb 13, 2006)

tom_s said:


> sea robin??


nay..



Jesse


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

black sea bass! the stripes become more sutle as they age. the "swoop", and the trailer on the top of the tail become more defined.


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## surfsidesativa (Jul 14, 2006)

Emanuel is right about the babies looking different. I just paged Pete to come look and give his opinion. As long as this is a friendly arguement (and I don't require gulp), I am still almost possitive it's Black Sea Bass.


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

tom_s said:


> sea robin??


Womp-Womp...try again..opcorn:


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

a


clinder said:


> black sea bass! the stripes become more sutle as they age. the "swoop", and the trailer on the top of the tail become more defined.


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## Jesse Lockowitz (Feb 13, 2006)

Railroader said:


> Womp-Womp...try again..opcorn:



charlie brown style..

womp womp womp,,,womp womp...womp wa waomppp wawa ...



Jesse


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## tom_s (Oct 20, 2006)

Jesse Lockowitz said:


> nay..
> 
> 
> 
> Jesse


huh huh..he said nay..


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

clinder said:


> black sea bass! the stripes become more sutle as they age. the "swoop", and the trailer on the top of the tail become more defined.



Best answer so far, but it doesn't explain away the TOTALLY wrong spine count and shape of the dorsals...

Who's Pete, and why should I believe him??? :spam:

Keeping in mind that this is IN FUN, and nobody gets mad, I'll declare a winner by bedtime tonite.


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

spine count means alot....that pic being a BSB would be like a human having 3 or 4 less vertibrae less than other humans...it happens but rarely do species make it and look 'normal'


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## Jaron15 (Aug 14, 2007)

hey RR u dont trust my opinion?


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## villagerecorder (Dec 31, 2005)

*baby bsb*

the tail changes around 8" and they start growing a freaky knot on the head around 15", little bsb come in the summer,as the bigger ones head offshore, they all meet at the reefs for xmas


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## Big Worm (Mar 29, 2005)

For sure Black Bass.


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

absolutly!


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

and the dorsal spines?


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

female and male. (dorsals)(size)


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## Dolphinpier (Aug 15, 2006)

I think that everyone is overlooking one important aspect of the fish, Its sex. Male or Female? That particular pictured fish has all the features of a juvenile female black seabass and none of the male features like the more lobed dorsal and the trailing points of the tailfin. Also in the juvies all of the dorsal spines are not alway visable.

Jimmy


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## Jesse Lockowitz (Feb 13, 2006)

TreednNC said:


> and the dorsal spines?


dude, throw in the towel, spit in the bucket, bow down , back away slowly, whatever ya gotta dooo

give it upppppp!!!


its a SEABARSE!!!


haha railroader, i like how your threads can stay all IN FUN!!! and no one gets mad at eachother having a little fun.


Good stuff


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

a


clinder said:


> female and male. (dorsals)(size)


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## Jesse Lockowitz (Feb 13, 2006)

Dolphinpier said:


> I think that everyone is overlooking one important aspect of the fish, Its sex. Male or Female? That particular pictured fish has all the features of a juvenile female black seabass and none of the male features like the more lobed dorsal and the trailing points of the tailfin. Also in the juvies all of the dorsal spines are not alway visable.
> 
> Jimmy


oooo! send this man a pack of gulpdizzles!



Jesse


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

Jesse Lockowitz said:


> oooo! send this man a pack of gulpdizzles!
> 
> 
> 
> Jesse



Whos to say he's right besides a buncha ppl that THINK they know what it is? lol


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

clinder said:


> female and male. (dorsals)(size)


 he got the idea from me..he he


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## villagerecorder (Dec 31, 2005)

Suzuki (sea bass) real good raw as well


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## Dr. Bubba (Nov 9, 1999)

sorry RR, Jesse is correct.

Very common to see juveniles inshore, around structure, in the late summer/early autumn as they feed on migrating baitfish before their move offshore to wrecks and humps.


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

why is the dorsal count wrong? any ichthiologist can tell u that dorsal spines are a key distinguishing feature.....it looks like a BSB except for the spines.


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

Dolphinpier said:


> I think that everyone is overlooking one important aspect of the fish, Its sex. Male or Female? That particular pictured fish has all the features of a juvenile female black seabass and none of the male features like the more lobed dorsal and the trailing points of the tailfin. Also in the juvies all of the dorsal spines are not alway visable.
> 
> Jimmy



Folks, we have a winner. This is by far the most convincing argument, and the thought of male or female never occurred to me, until Jimmy chimed in. Makes sense to me. 

Jimmy, if you will PM me your address, I'll send your prize...You have you pick of 3" Swim Mullet Smoke or Root Beer Color, or 3" Shrimp, Bonejack, New Penny, or Lime Tiger color. (They're what I have on hand..)

Let's give Jimmy a round of applause!!!

Thank you to all the contestants, and join us next time for...

Name That Fish!!


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## hengstthomas (Mar 11, 2006)

Without a doubt a BSB


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## Jesse Lockowitz (Feb 13, 2006)

TreednNC said:


> Whos to say he's right besides a buncha ppl that THINK they know what it is? lol


blamalama!


wanna go seabass fishing?


i mean watchamacalit fishing?


Jesse


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

yep


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## fisherkid (Jun 30, 2005)

Rob. I gotta say that clinder deserves an honorable mention due to the fact the he and dolphin pier both were typing at the same time. 

Dolphinpier get's the gulp with the detailed explanation.

Glad I could be of help


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## surfsidesativa (Jul 14, 2006)

What about jesse getting an honorable mention for saying it was a sea bass 3 hours ago? (J/K)

Can't wait to start jigging the big ones off of the bottom come late november.


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

surfsidesativa said:


> What about jesse getting an honorable mention for saying it was a sea bass 3 hours ago? (J/K)


What the hell kinda fun would that have been??? 

I kinda enjoyed the "Chase for the Stank"...Hope y'all did too.


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## clinder (Mar 2, 2005)

Railroader said:


> What the hell kinda fun would that have been???
> 
> I kinda enjoyed the "Chase for the Stank"...Hope y'all did too.


U was just fishin werent ya.


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## fisherkid (Jun 30, 2005)

*Surf*



surfsidesativa said:


> What about jesse getting an honorable mention for saying it was a sea bass 3 hours ago? (J/K)
> 
> Can't wait to start jigging the big ones off of the bottom come late november.


Clinder Honorable Mention is for mentioning the age and male female difference.

Fisherkid at your service


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## SeaSalt (Apr 29, 2002)

It might be a baby Gag Grouper...


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## Dolphinpier (Aug 15, 2006)

Railroader said:


> Folks, we have a winner. This is by far the most convincing argument, and the thought of male or female never occurred to me, until Jimmy chimed in. Makes sense to me.
> 
> Jimmy, if you will PM me your address, I'll send your prize...You have you pick of 3" Swim Mullet Smoke or Root Beer Color, or 3" Shrimp, Bonejack, New Penny, or Lime Tiger color. (They're what I have on hand..)
> 
> ...


RR,

I appreciate the offer. But you can do something more important to me if you would. If you would give the Gulp to a young boy or girl and teach them how to fish them. That is something I'm really into. Teaching our young people to fish and enjoy the outdoor world and give them the opportunities I had as a youth. Maybe this will keep them out of trouble. Thanks my friend.

Jimmy

PS. I'm a certified "TACKLE WHORE" I have more stuff for fishing than some tackle shops, but my wife still loves me.


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

Dolphinpier said:


> RR,
> 
> I appreciate the offer. But you can do something more important to me if you would. If you would give the Gulp to a young boy or girl and teach them how to fish them. That is something I'm really into. Teaching our young people to fish and enjoy the outdoor world and give them the opportunities I had as a youth. Maybe this will keep them out of trouble. Thanks my friend.
> 
> ...



Jimmy, you sir, are a true class act! 

It so happens that my step son has a friend who has never fished, and wants to go with us sometime. The plan is already in the works.  Maybe we can hook him on fishin'!


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## Jesse Lockowitz (Feb 13, 2006)

Railroader said:


> Jimmy, you sir, are a true class act!
> 
> It so happens that my step son has a friend who has never fished, and wants to go with us sometime. The plan is already in the works.  Maybe we can hook him on fishin'!


another person to be ruined by fishing!!!

spending all of their income on rods..reels..trips..yikes...hope he knows what he's in for when the ho'ism rubs off from RR onto him!

good stuff. 

Jesse


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## emanuel (Apr 2, 2002)

He'll be outside Bass Pro, asking for change. "Hey man, ya gotta a buck? I'm all out of Gulp!"


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## The Crew (Jul 8, 2007)

Grouper family would have been my first guess and If it weren't for that pic - I'd be convinced it was a BSB with under developed fins - gag grouper it is.



Jaron15 said:


> Family Serranidae, SEA BASSES AND GROUPER
> Mycteroperca microlepis
> 
> 
> ...


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## emanuel (Apr 2, 2002)

The final conclusion was baby seabass. I've caught plenty of baby grouper and I can assure you that the fish in question is definitely NOT a baby grouper.


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## Dolphinpier (Aug 15, 2006)

Eman,

You are probably right about him being outside BPS asking for money. That is better than begging or stealing money for drugs or other thing that can corrupt our future leaders.

Just wanted to post a link to an article about a club that I am associated with and one of the projects that we did with the Florida Youth Sheriff's Ranch. Thinking maybe it will give others an idea of things that they may do with kids. Everything was furnished for these kids including rods and reels from a company that let the kids keep them after the event.

Maybe someday one of these kids or one that someone else may teach the sport of fishing or even hunting may be able to make a difference by taking the place of some of these idiots that are now in charge of our sport.

Thanks

Jimmy

Hopefully it is okay to post this link.

http://www.paddling.net/guidelines/showArticle.html?306


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## ShoreFisher72 (Jul 13, 2005)

mutated seabass.


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## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

*Those little tards are great to eat...*

However, if you've ever fished for "blackfish" youll notice that they are pretty radical.
THey will absoulutely eat each other eyeballs out...

Anyhow they are hermaphroditic; they reproduce as both female and a male at some time in their lives. The age at which they switch from female to male is varies.

Its been shown that when large groups of the males, (big knot headed) are taken from a particular area, the females can chages to reproduce as males.....

THat was definately a black sea bass.


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

Firespyder7 said:


> However, if you've ever fished for "blackfish" youll notice that they are pretty radical.
> THey will absoulutely eat each other eyeballs out...
> 
> Anyhow they are hermaphroditic; they reproduce as both female and a male at some time in their lives. The age at which they switch from female to male is varies.
> ...


Ryan,

Whatcha know 'bout them hermaphadites?....you keep them videos 2 urself....know who I ain't fishin wit @ the Striper tourney.


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## bluefish1928 (Jun 9, 2007)

i am certain that is a black sea bass, bank sea bass, rock seabass, or some type of sea bass hybrid.


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## bluefish1928 (Jun 9, 2007)

i comonly catch them on two hooks. the will attack both hooks on a bottom rig.


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