# OTG Set up ?



## Jeremy Schrader (Feb 7, 2009)

There are a number of ways for setting up when doing the OTG but for me I find that having my hands lower and pushing upwards and out works. Also the shorter stiffer rod picks up the lead better allowing me to move faster. Would be interested on others thoughts ?

Here's some practice footage from yesterdays session .  - Better than being in the office :mrgreen: 

https://youtu.be/Hnl2loxrztc


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Jeremy,

I spent a LOT of time working on the ground cast between 2006 and 2008. It worked out pretty well, giving me a second place finish in the 2006 Primo and then a 5th in the Big Danny. I used it to rewrite the USA record books.

My thoughts for maximum power...

Rod 270 degrees from target line. Leader between 45 and 90 degrees off the tip. Some will tell you that 90 is too much (leader pointed back toward the target) but it is the angle that worked best for me. 

I found that starting very low did not work well for me. Left hand at or just under chin height with the rod tip barely off the ground would preset the launch angle for me. As you turn in to the cast, the left should rise and maintain extension until well out in front of your face, between your eyes and your target in the sky. PUNCH / PULL hard at this time.

I found great success with long, stiff rods like the TTR and M427.

One of the most important things to remember is to allow the sinker to accelerate before applying the violence. Start slow, finish fast. Like driving a sports car through a long sweeping curve....

Tommy


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## Jeremy Schrader (Feb 7, 2009)

Tommy , 

Thanks for that insight  I will do a few tests in the next few weeks and see how that goes . 

In relation to the length of rod I think that my size is a limiting factor being only 5'6" the shorter rod allows me to turn easier and bring in the left faster on the hit though I will do a comparison between my TTR and my T1000. 

Regards:fishing:


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

I look forward to your results Jeremy!!


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## Furball (Sep 20, 2002)

I am only 5'8" with very short legs and I find that when ground casting for pendulum longer rods, any over 12.5 feet, with flat arc I feel off balance. It does not make a difference with a hatters cast since I cast more over my head that way but I have wondered whether I should be using a shorter rod for pendulum and OTG casting.


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Tom,

Everybody has an "ideal" rod length. The trouble is, there is no formula to figure that out for you. I also have short legs (28" inseam) but a long torso. For me with a low reel position, a 14' rod with the reel on reducer gave best results. Your strength, speed and technique all play in along with your physical stature. 

Experiment. Start long, then move the reel seat up until you find the best balance of power, speed and the ability to finish the cast strong. 

Let us know how it goes

Tommy


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## Furball (Sep 20, 2002)

Thanks Tommy. That is great advice. I will try it and cycle back to you. Tom


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## BritBri (Dec 1, 2015)

Tommy
Not to question your pedigree and knowledge, but surely just raising the reel isnt gonna be the same as using a shorter rod.
The drop would be the same unless of course it was raised also.
This then would leave x amount of inches of rod butt swinging about below the reel to get in the way and the "shorter" drop would just make everything happen much faster.
Faster everything just increases the chance of something going wrong.
I can't see a shorter rod and the resulting increase in speed being any advantage.
The longer the rod = a longer drop which = a slower cast with more leverage and more controllability .
I DO however agree with you that rod length and reel position is a personal thing and leads to a happier more comfortable caster.

There are some exceptions to the reel down ,long rod,long drop and the slow in fast out "rule"

A friend of mine back in the uk, you may know him and im sure you have heard of him, Paul Kerry, is a total opposite to the rule.
Having fished with Paul on many occasions and watched him cast, i can honestly say that even at his age (sorry Paul lol) he is just phenominal.

No slow in fast out....he is FAST in and ridiculesly FAST out with the reel mounted HIGH up the butt.
I dont know and have never seen anybody else do it like he does.

Just my opinion, nothing else.


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

BritBri said:


> A friend of mine back in the uk, you may know him and im sure you have heard of him, Paul Kerry, is a total opposite to the rule.
> Having fished with Paul on many occasions and watched him cast, i can honestly say that even at his age (sorry Paul lol) he is just phenominal.
> 
> No slow in fast out....he is FAST in and ridiculesly FAST out with the reel mounted HIGH up the butt.
> I dont know and have never seen anybody else do it like he does.


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

BB,

Questioning is good. It is how we all learn. Lord knows I have asked a lot of casting question over the past 20 years.... 


There is only one way to find the rod length that works best for you. You have to experiment. Spend time in the field or on the beach casting and trying different configurations. This is best done on a rod with coasters on the butt so you can adjust the reel position. It works for both high and low reel position. If you start with a longer rod and just can't get it around for a proper finish, then moving the reel up (maintaining the same grip width) the butt effectively reduces the casting length of the rod. Anything below your bottom hand is now out of the equation (except for the extra butt being "in the way"). Once you find your best effective length with _that rod_, then you have the option to trim the butt if you so desire. This length may change from rod to rod, based on power, stiffness and action. It can take quite a bit of time to get dialed in for max distance on the field, especially if you are working with different rods AND different sinker weights (another thread...). 

I personally cast best with a longer rod. For field work I use a full length TTR or M427SU with the reel mounted on the reducer. It is what has proven to work best for me. It is also a fact the every caster has a point that longer = a decrease in performance as they just cannot get the rod around for a powerful finish. Jeremy is a great example of a powerful, top tier caster that has better results with a shorter rod. Distance is about accelerating the sinker through the largest possible arc that you can manage and finishing with a burst of speed/power at the end. A rod that is too long or stiff or heavy can restrict that final acceleration and cost you distance.

IMHO (at the top level) speed is very important. The man that can hit the long rod with technique, power AND speed will usually come out on top.

Long rods/drops are great, but there is no one size fits all answer. Drop length is another thing that requires time in the field to perfect. I've observed guys on the casting court using a drop that is entirely too long and robs them of a powerful finish. Also watched casters that have (IMHO) way too short of a drop and costing distance as well. 

When on game, I can make a small change in drop length to correct direction issues.

Paul Kerry is a casting legend. His battles with Blackbeard and Roger Mortimer are the stuff of casting lore. Paul was blessed with speed that few can match. I can assure you though, that Paul did indeed accelerate the sinker through and arc and that his finish was faster than his start. It was just all on a different level that most mortals can manage.

Finally, for those of you wanting to gain yards fishing. Find a rod that is comfortable to you, tweak the drop for best performance and go fishing!!!

Tommy





BritBri said:


> Tommy
> Not to question your pedigree and knowledge, but surely just raising the reel isnt gonna be the same as using a shorter rod.
> The drop would be the same unless of course it was raised also.
> This then would leave x amount of inches of rod butt swinging about below the reel to get in the way and the "shorter" drop would just make everything happen much faster.
> ...


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## BlaineO (Jan 22, 2001)

Paul is likely from alien ancestry, there is no other possible explanation...

He has the speed, strength, and timing to pick the sinker up seemingly full on with precise timing. 
Most mortals simply cannot do that with any degree of consistency.

It's interesting in watching and talking with great casters the ingredients are the same, but the recipe varies with each one.


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## BritBri (Dec 1, 2015)

Tommy
Paul still casts the same today as he did all them years ago.
Ive watched vids of him and they dont do justice....he is like lightning lol


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## BritBri (Dec 1, 2015)

ez2cdave said:


>


What do you rekon Dave ?
Pretty impressive eh lol


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## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

BritBri said:


> What do you rekon Dave ?
> Pretty impressive eh lol


I would almost call it "violent" . . .

Tight Lines !


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## BritBri (Dec 1, 2015)

That about describes it just right


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## Jeremy Schrader (Feb 7, 2009)

Will try and get out for a session tomorrow and see what I can do with my shortened TTR V my full length T1000 using the same reel and weights


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## BPReeds (Jan 11, 2013)

I was really happy last winter fishing season with my OTG casting...until I developed a bad case of tendonitis......in the right shoulder.....this year I'm going to bring the right arm in a little closer to the body with less extension.....watch that side arm.....its a good idea to video your casting......something I have to do this year.......warm up and work on rotator cuff strengthening also may keep you in the game......as Tommy and others have said....use body rotation....


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## Jeremy Schrader (Feb 7, 2009)

Here's another clip doing the OTG . 

https://youtu.be/nc6TOcme-WQ

Regards


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