# I need clarification on the Saltwater Angler Registry



## Thrifty Angler (May 5, 2002)

I'm more of a diagram literate person and find the wording a bit unclear.

I was taking the "Do I Need To Register" test. Came across the first of what I need clarification on.
*Saltwater recreational anglers will need to register if they: fish for or catch anadromous species like river herring, shad or striped bass in tidal waters; fish in the Federal waters; or don’t meet any of the exceptions outlined in the law. *
I only intend to catch saltwater fish from the Atlantic ocean and the Chesapeake Bay, Lynnhaven Inlet, James River, etc... 
Are these area considered to be Federal Waters?



Second area of clarification I need is: They ask for a _yes_ or _no_ answer to.....
*Will you be, or might you be, fishing in Federal waters ... that is, more than three miles off the shore of the ocean or Gulf of Mexico; or more than three miles from the ocean’s or Gulf’s entrance to sounds, bays and rivers, such as the Chesapeake Bay or the Columbia River?*

I went the _no_ route to this question because I don't plan to fish 3 miles off the coast....but I will be at times 3 or more miles _inland_ from the Atlantic and the entrance to the Chesapeake Bay. Yet, they suggested that I register anyway just in case I happen to catch an andro?? fish....assuming one would happen to swim into the _tidal_ waters I have limited myself to fishing in. 

Now I'm assuming these: _*Alabama, Alaska, California, Connecticut, Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Guam, Louisiana, Mississippi, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, South Carolina, Texas, Washington*_ are the only exempt states. 

To the point, if I plan to fish in local virginia saltwater...Sandbridge, James River, Lesner, Oceanfront, Hampton, P-Town, etc....*do I need to register this year*? If required, I want to do it now versus later.

Thanks


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## Erie Warrior (Aug 5, 2007)

It's free this year, no reason not to. And all of those places you listed hold striper, so I believe the answer is yes.


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## Thrifty Angler (May 5, 2002)

Done.

Didn't see the map when first on the site.
https://www.countmyfish.noaa.gov/aboutus/organization/who_needs_angler_registry.html

Took care of the whole family in one sitting. 

Thanks


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## Smittroc (May 1, 2009)

Thrifty Angler said:


> Done.
> 
> Didn't see the map when first on the site.
> https://www.countmyfish.noaa.gov/aboutus/organization/who_needs_angler_registry.html
> ...


yeah thanks Thrift because i certainly would have forgotten. I just did mines


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

Short answer if you are fishing tidal waters of Virginia during open striped bass seasons. . . then yes. Long answer below is the official federal rule. Technically you might get off (in court) if you are fishing for croaker, etc. from the beach. . . On the other hand if you are fishing for speckled trout it is reasonably likely that you would catch striped bass using the same techniques.

All indications are that Virginia fishing license laws will come into compliance by Jan. 1, 2011. That being said the legislation has not popped up on at the legislature's web site.

Oh and Federal waters begin at the 3 mile line. Inland waters start more or less from a line between Cape Henry and Fisherman's Island. The area in between the two is the state territorial sea.

Tom

§ 600.1405 Angler registration.

(a) Effective January 1, 2010, the requirements of this section apply to any person who does any of the following:
(1) Engages in angling or spearfishing for:
(i) Fish in the EEZ;
(ii) Anadromous species in any tidal waters; or
(iii) Continental Shelf fishery resources beyond the EEZ.
(2) Operates a for-hire fishing vessel in the EEZ.
(3) Operates a for-hire fishing vessel that engages in angling or spearfishing for:
(i) Anadromous species in any tidal waters; or
(ii) Continental shelf fishery resources beyond the EEZ.
(4) Possesses equipment used for angling or spearfishing and also possesses:
(i) Fish in the EEZ;
(ii) Anadromous species in any tidal waters; or
(iii) Continental shelf fishery resources beyond the EEZ.




(b) No person may engage in the activities listed in paragraph (a) of this section unless that person:
(1) Has registered annually with NMFS in accordance with §600.1410 of this part;
(2) Holds a valid fishing license issued by, or is registered by, an exempted state;
(3) Is a resident of an exempted state, but is not required to hold a fishing license, or to be registered to fish, under the laws of that state;
(4) Holds a permit issued by NMFS for for-hire fishing under 50 CFR 622.4(a)(1), 635.4(b), 648.4(a), or 660.70(a)(1);
(5) Is under the age of 16;
(6) Is angling aboard a for-hire fishing vessel that is in compliance with NMFS and state for-hire vessel permit, license or registration requirements;
(7) Holds a commercial fishing license or permit issued by NMFS or a state and is lawfully fishing or in possession of fish taken under the terms and conditions of such license or permit;
(8) Holds an HMS Angling permit under 50 CFR 635.4(c);
(9) Holds a subsistence fishing license or permit issued by NMFS or a state and is lawfully fishing or in possession of fish taken under the terms and conditions of such license or permit; or
(10) Is angling or spearfishing for, or operating a for-hire fishing vessel that engages in fishing for, anadromous species or Continental Shelf fishery resources, in waters under the control of a foreign nation.
(c) Any angler or spear fisher or operator of a for-hire vessel must, on request of an authorized officer, produce the NMFS registration number and certificate or evidence that such person or for-hire vessel operator is exempt from the registration requirement pursuant to §600.1405(b)(2) through §600.1405(b)(10).


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Well I am a croaker fisherman, I aint registering.


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

Cdog said:


> Well I am a croaker fisherman, I aint registering.


we have carolina licenses. we don't need to


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## ORF Pete (Sep 26, 2009)

I find it interesting that it lasts for a year from the registration date apparently, versus until Jan. 1st 2011 for everyone. So... say you aren't going to be fishing this month or in February due to the cold weather, and you might start fishing in March. You could hold off registration until March and get an extra month or two out of the free registration this year (like if you registered March 10th 2010 it will last until March 10th 2011). At least that is what I gathered from the registration process and the date on my card.

Btw, the page after you register says they will be mailing you a waterproof tear resistant card within 30 days, so you don't have to print out any card or anything. You can if you want to (it has a printable version of your card), but if you plan to fish within 30 days and don't want to print anything just write down your registration #.


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## Thrifty Angler (May 5, 2002)

I saw that extended date on ours as well. Way I figure it...since 2010 is free, anyone registering during 2010 are probably covered til Jan 1, 2011. They probably will put some sort of addendum stating that anglers aren't required to start "paying" til 2011 and to keep things more organized, anglers will be required to register as close to the Jan 1, 2011 date as possible. Because anglers wouldn't technically be losing cash. Or maybe they are working on automatic registration when a saltwater fishing license is purchased. Like in the listed states. Not sure if they will pro-rate the fee. My SW license isn't up for renewal til summer. I'm interested to see how soon they work this out. 

I was low on printer ink so I just used the *print screen* key on the keyboard and opened up *word pad* then *right clicked* within the wordpad with the mouse then *left clicked* on *paste*. I then saved the document onto the computer. I also put a copy of the file on a cd disk. Yep, I still use those things.:redface: I was able to print them out....was a little faded but still legible. I hit the print button from the Registry page. You don't want to print the card "as is" from a saved document. It might come out somewhat super sized .  As mentioned, you probably won't need it before your permanent one comes. 
I missed the part on it being laminated. Uncle Sam's going way out for us. Yippee.


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## bbcroaker (Jan 6, 2005)

Cdog said:


> Well I am a croaker fisherman, I aint registering.


me too and i aint neither
I heard in 2004 everyone will have to register to breathe


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## dirtyhandslopez (Nov 17, 2006)

Still don't know who actually enforces this. Lots more camo wearing, night stalkng fisherman coming to a hole near you.


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## dirtyhandslopez (Nov 17, 2006)

So who is going to enforce this thing. They going to put Federal police on the job, or what? If it covers all states, I would have thought it's a Federal thing.


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## Thrifty Angler (May 5, 2002)

*Update!!!!*

We (each family member) received our cards from the NOAA via regular mail yesterday (Thursday). 
Took just 11 days to get them.


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## dirtyhandslopez (Nov 17, 2006)

Does anybody, anywhere know who enforces this? If it's a federal thing then state boys shouldn't be having anything to do with it, I would have thought.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

dirtyhandslopez said:


> Does anybody, anywhere know who enforces this? If it's a federal thing then state boys shouldn't be having anything to do with it, I would have thought.


I would suspect that the feds will rely on the states to enforce it. I will take my chances. Glad the sheep are happy about it. Sorry Doc.opcorn:


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## dirtyhandslopez (Nov 17, 2006)

Prap's Va doesn't want to play, our license holding doesn't automatically sign us up, unlike other states.


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## croaker (Jun 18, 2004)

*If you purchase*

a state saltwater license, you will automatically be registered. If your resident state does not require a saltwater license, then the individual must register. During 2010, there is no fee; 2011 there will be a fee of between $15 and $25 per year. All funds from this will go to the US Treasury. None of it will go towards improving our fisheries. This is nothing more then a targeted tax against a portion of the population.

Here's where it get's interesting. If you buy a license every year, you will probably be hit with the fee because the states cannot handle the burden. If you currently have a life license, who will handle collecting this tax since you do not have to renew each year. Does the state bill each individual? What if you have a license in 2 states? Do you have to pay the tax in both states? There are many questions regarding the enforcement of this.

Virginia has legislation in the process to deal with this. My license is in NC because that is where I fish. If I fish in Virginia, it is from Piers only 

Another issue is that head boats and charter boats are mentioned in the regulations. Piers are not. There are gaps in this and it is going to be a goat F### through this year.


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## beachcaster (Nov 8, 2002)

The way Im understanding this is that even tho Im a Va. resident and have a Va. fishing license that I will use fishing the saltwater regions I will also have me a Carolina license for the outerbanks and having this license will exempt me from having to register since North Carolina is one of the exempt states. Am I correct?opcorn::beer::fishing:


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## Thrifty Angler (May 5, 2002)

I would say _yes_, you would be covered. 
Now if you don't currently have your NC license yet...it would all depend on your actually purchasing your 2010 NC license. They would have your current address, dob, etc....and would be able to pass along that info to the registry folks at the point of your license purchase.

If you currently have a NC license that was purchased in 2009 and it's due to end this year, then I would think you may have to register.....unless NC automatically sends the data of everyone that holds a license (as of Jan 2010) in their state to the registry folks.

I would think you'd have to pay the fee directly to the registry folks. Unless they request that it be paid via the Saltwater License agent in your actual state of residency.

I probably didn't answer your question with a definite.  
I tried my best.


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

It all seems like a way that would be too easy to put the over fishing on the rec's instead of the comm's. there are to much politics in this "clean the BAY", FIX THE ROADS", etc. LORD KNOWS that we have been telling "THEM" for years about the bay problems. WE have to pay for a place to fish, fresh and salt. WHY! public land and I am a member of the public! A few years ago I made dozens of calls to the fish cops before I saw the first one. I finally called and suggested that they were losing enough money to hire more officers. WOW, things changed. :fishing:


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## croaker (Jun 18, 2004)

*None of the mo*

will directly go to fix anything related to fishing. The official term is an administrative fee.

NC automatically send the data at the time of purchasing/renewing the NC license.


"would think you'd have to pay the fee directly to the registry folks. Unless they request that it be paid via the Saltwater License agent in your actual state of residency."

That's the $25 question. Again, 2 states, 2licenses, 2 fees? According to regulation, no. I don't think they can't screw this up.


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

So there is a bill in the works in Richmond to fix this. . . 

That being said if they do not fix this in VA and bring our license program into compliance, the fee will go to the federal government and will not be dedicated to saltwater fishing, habitat, etc.


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## croaker (Jun 18, 2004)

Tom Powers said:


> So there is a bill in the works in Richmond to fix this. . .
> 
> That being said if they do not fix this in VA and bring our license program into compliance, the fee will go to the federal government and will not be dedicated to saltwater fishing, habitat, etc.


The fee (tax) will ALWAYS go to the Feds. Again, the 'administrative' fee goes directly into US Treasury per law.


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## croaker (Jun 18, 2004)

*Discussion*

Good description of what is going on with this mess on the Red Drum Tackle board.
Look under Current Issues forum

Thread is This is a current issue


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Tom Powers said:


> So there is a bill in the works in Richmond to fix this. . .
> 
> That being said if they do not fix this in VA and bring our license program into compliance, the fee will go to the federal government and will not be dedicated to saltwater fishing, habitat, etc.


The fee is going to go to the Feds regardless. Be sure to post up what the bill # is because I will be sure to let my reps know that I do not support it at all. This registery is BS!!!


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

The fees in the bill go to the Virginia Saltwater Fishing Improvement Fund. Just like your current recreational license money. 

IF THE BILL *FAILS* THEN WE WILL HAVE TO PAY THE FEDERAL FEE WHICH WILL NOT GO TO VA.

If you already buy an individual license to fish in saltwater nothing will be changed, except that you will probably have to give them a phone number to go along with the address and don't have to worry about the federal registry.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Tom Powers said:


> The fees in the bill go to the Virginia Saltwater Fishing Improvement Fund. Just like your current recreational license money.
> 
> IF THE BILL *FAILS* THEN WE WILL HAVE TO PAY THE FEDERAL FEE WHICH WILL NOT GO TO VA.
> 
> If you already buy an individual license to fish in saltwater nothing will be changed, except that you will probably have to give them a phone number to go along with the address and don't have to worry about the federal registry.


Tom, can you provide a link to the proposed bill. Not doubting you, just want to see it so I can be more informed.


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## Jackman1950 (Sep 28, 2008)

I registered and am calculating the cost. I fish NJ, DE, MD and NC. I also fish at home in PA with a trout stamp. Damn it's getting expensive to wet a line.


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## ymmij (Jun 21, 2008)

Cdog said:


> Tom, can you provide a link to the proposed bill. Not doubting you, just want to see it so I can be more informed.


I would like to check that out myself as well.


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## YakAttack (Aug 8, 2006)

I'll register after I get my first ticket. They will probably take my info and charge me a big fine then  

I've been amazed at how many fishermen have eagerly complied with this. Aside from the fees, aren't we giving up some liberty when we have to give the big brother something in order to fish OUR waters? The fed does not own this country, we do. 

Little by little they take more and more liberty, create more and more government, regulations, etc. Where does this end?


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

SB 668 Saltwater recreational fishing; conformance with national registry.
Ralph S. Northam

Saltwater recreational fishing; conformance with national registry. Conforms Virginia's licensing of saltwater anglers with the rule issued by the National Marine Fisheries Service, thus exempting anglers in Virginia from federal registration. Several exemptions from the requirement to purchase a license will no longer be available, including exemptions for persons fishing from their own property, a federally owned park, or licensed rental boats. Those holding a lifetime license will continue to be exempt from further license requirements. Persons over 65 and persons fishing from a rental boat will pay a reduced license fee of $5.

Here is a link to the status page for the bill.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?101+sum+SB668

Here is a link to the current wording. . I would copy and paste it but the strike through and italics don't take and it would be to confusing to understand what is going on.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?101+ful+SB668

Bills as complicated as this are subject to adjustments. New versions would show up on the status page as substitute bills, etc.

Tom


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

Yak attack you already give the state everything but your phone number when you get a saltwater license? 

Giving contact information as part of the price to have the privilege to harvest a public resource is fine with me. 

I don't like the way that the Feds put that $15 to $25 fee on the program as I would bet that it could be done by someone in the private sector for way cheaper.


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## YakAttack (Aug 8, 2006)

You're right Tom, but I did not need a salt water license a few years ago. Becoming part of a federal database is, in my estimate, an escalation of regulation.

The way I see it, the privilege to fish used to come from God. Now the politicians have seized that and most of our other liberties and somehow have us thinking they are doing us a favor by letting us fish if we satisfy their requirements for the "common good".

I'm all about responsible sportsmanship and wildlife management, and recognize that the states and even the feds have a role in those. But this is not just about wildlife management. This is an assumption of more control by politicians. 

I think it's great that VA is trying to redirect the funds. It's better than going to the US Treasury. But that does not change that this is a federal requirement that puts another condition on another liberty.

There's always a "good" reason to enact another law, add another regulation, and take a little more liberty from the people. I don't want to start a philosophical discussion, so I won't go any farther than that. My only point is that we keep accepting more and more control by the state (and in recent years federal) governments and often do not stop to consider the long term implications. 

I think sometimes we should consider not only where we are, but where we are going. I don't like where this is going.

Again, I respectfully, but strongly, disagree with this requirement. There is more at stake than my phone number or my $25.


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## Thrifty Angler (May 5, 2002)

Fish numbers and qualities are down. The Feds fee for future years might be short lived based on that fact alone. I'd see many anglers hanging up their gear....permanently if there wasn't plenty of bounty available. 

Anyone have the #'s on how many Va residential saltwater anglers buy annual fishing licenses in general?

The 65+ crowd having to pay $5...although a reduced amount.....just doesn't make sense. They can least afford any type increases. I don't like that one bit. 

I don't see the + or - in there being a current license fee exemption for fishing from a Federally Owned Park. I would think most people that fish the parks generally have a license. I don't see them as fishing exclusively from parks....and not fishing any where else. As for the message that would send to visiting out of state tourists....I think that would just be bad PR. Then again, the Fed's do own rights to those parks...and would technically be the one type fishing access they could claim regulation to under the registry fee requirement. 

No more license requirement exemptions for land/property owners is totally fair. As it has been standing, they and their guests have much more frequent access to fishing than the regular angler that has to haul a bunch of gear to and fro the beach, pier, accessible shore spots, etc..... No fees to park, no admission fees, no buying gasoline to get there costs, no having to buy expensive grub ...when all have to do is run to the house to grab a bite, no wear and tear vehicle maintenance. *Convenience, convenience, convenience*. _Surely it's worth something_.  I see no _benefiting from angling priviledges_ contributions towards the tax base one bit in that scenario. 
I can't even tell you how many times I've seen land owners pulling in crab pots and fishing lines from their yards/docks...24/7 in most cases. Not even mentioning the numerous landowners that let folks fish from their yard for an "under the table" compensation. They definitely should be removed from the basic license exemption category.


As for the registry fee....either way, whether the Fed route or the State route....if it stays/goes thru...anglers will have to pay. I wouldn't worry bout Uncle Sam being able to get the fee out of you. After all, there is this thing called IRS. Wouldn't be surprised to see the registry fee included as one of those things that go under the Gov Owed category when it comes to your tax filing and what Uncle Sam can take before he sends you your refund. No doubt it would come into play if an angler purchases an active state fishing license...but doesn't cough up the registry fee payment. And the Feds do know who and where we are. 

Just my opinons.


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## ASK4Fish (May 4, 2005)

Thrifty Angler said:


> Fish numbers and qualities are down. The Feds fee for future years might be short lived based on that fact alone. I'd see many anglers hanging up their gear....permanently if there wasn't plenty of bounty available.
> 
> Anyone have the #'s on how many Va residential saltwater anglers buy annual fishing licenses in general?
> 
> ...


so you're telling me that you wouldn't be PISSED if you owned a home on the water, and the man told YOU that YOU couldn't crab or fish from YOUR own property? come on, don't be so naive... most people who fish from their property also have licences anyway to fish other places...so the change will not affect most who have licence anyway, but think of your 65+ that you bleed for, and how they would feel if fishing from a dock at their dream home on the lynnhaven river was suddenly just another bill? the way i look at it, its just another route to KILL REC. FISHING altogether. if they called everyone on their list, and counted, in REAL NUMBERS how much we catch, regardless of what the comms. do, it will lead the way to just more fees, seasonal closures, reduction of cull with increases of minimum sizes, and higher fines for breaking these new regs., all making it impractical at best to even go fishing. "just go to walmart, buy you some 'agent orange chemically enhanced' swai, tilapia, and tiger shrimp, and just forget the sport altogether."


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## Thrifty Angler (May 5, 2002)

Just my opinons.


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