# cast pro series rods



## eric

so tommy,, you gonna keep some of us in suspence? d;D
maybe a sneaky peeky? 0_^


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## Tacpayne

eric said:


> so tommy,, you gonna keep some of us in suspence? d;D
> maybe a sneaky peeky? 0_^


I've already had a sneak peak, just had to rub it in a little


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## eric

grr!


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## bstarling

I had the chance to toss one of the heavy ones and found it to be really nice. If I'm not mistaken it takes a 22 size reel seat as well. They look like winners to me.

Bill:fishing:


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## Hudak

I have had the chance to see the entire line. No one will be disappointed. Light Estuary size rods, all the way to the 6-10oz heaver. They are what you would expect from Tommy. Great product, good price, thin, and strong. Anyone looking for a rod would do well to hold off and give one of these rods a chance. I am sure more information will be posted soon. The cat has definitely be let out, hunted a few mice, and put some smiles on peoples faces. Be patient. It will be worth the wait. 

Robert


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## eric

well sorry if i opened the bag o worms. haha


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## Hudak

No, that wasn't referring to you, at one point Tommy was keeping things under wrap, with ads like "Coming soon" that is what I was referring to, not you. 

Robert


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## osiya47

just want to know if there is a set date for the first public batch


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## Rockfish1

Tommy... when you get the whole line up I want one blank of each... will pick'em up after the 1st of the year... gimme a call @ 910-265-8032... thanks... Dale...


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## KingKrimpet

What's the ETA on these bad boys?


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## Tommy

Guys,

I'm at the end of testing and demo now. I have to say that the rods have been well received and I really could not be happier. A slight delay was caused by a redesign of the 11' rod. I made a change from a 1-3 oz rod to a 2-5 oz rod. I have to put that one through the paces but from the look and feel it will be a very nice rod. 

Next come maufacture, production of factory rods and finally shipping. I am hoping for an early march debut of retail rods.

Thanks for all the interest and for spreading the word.... 

Tommy


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## eric

oo just in time for my bday. woot.


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## Rockfish1

Tommy... I'm looking for blanks only... when will they be available?...


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## Tommy

Most likely blanks will ship to USA with the factory rods. 

Tommy


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## Rockfish1

Tommy... you have my number, when you get'em in gimme a call and I'll ease on down and pick'em up... Dale...


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## Tommy

Will do Dale.


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## fisho

*Awesome Rods!*

I was lucky enough to throw both of the rods that Ryan brought down last month. We almost spooled a dry 525 w/out bait. It was killer. I can't wait to get these rods. Finally a decent rod at a decent price! 

Tommy let me know if you need help w/ your website build.... I'd be intrested in helping out for trade  I run a multimedia development business. www.mediaboxstudios.com (we have met a couple of times actually)

cheers

Sam


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## Rockfish1

Tommy... them blanks available yet?...


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## Tacpayne

Rockfish1 said:


> Tommy... them blanks available yet?...


Not yet, He is hoping the end of Feb begining of March


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## Tommy

Sorry Dale,

Somehow i missed this post.

Rods / blanks will be available soon. I hope in about 4-6 weeks.

Tommy


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## Al Kai

Tommy said:


> Guys,
> 
> I'm at the end of testing and demo now. I have to say that the rods have been well received and I really could not be happier. A slight delay was caused by a redesign of the 11' rod. I made a change from a 1-3 oz rod to a 2-5 oz rod. I have to put that one through the paces but from the look and feel it will be a very nice rod.
> 
> Next come maufacture, production of factory rods and finally shipping. I am hoping for an early march debut of retail rods.
> 
> Thanks for all the interest and for spreading the word....
> 
> Tommy


When you do have the 11 foot 2-5 ounce rod for sale, how much will a completed rod cost?


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## biggestsquid

Hey Tommy,

Got a lot of guys excited about that 13' heaver that you teased us with at ramp 23. I always admired your casting --- now I am beginning to admire your marketing. Everybody is sufficiently on the edge of their seats --- those babies coming any closer to reality?

Cheers,

Biggestsquid

"You fish and then you die ---- or you don't fish and die anyway. Your choice."


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## Tommy

Squid,

they are coming.... I promise... 

There is a delay right now waiting on a few of the fuji components. I could have had them in hand now if it were not for this delay.

Blanks should be here very soon.

Tommy


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## KingKrimpet

Anything similiar to the AFAW Surf?


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## Tommy

If you like the Surf then i think you will love the Cast Pro 13' 3-6. Thiiner (22mm reel seat) lighter and _slightly_ more powerful.

I've gotten great reviews from demo and testing.

Tommy


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## KingKrimpet

Thanks Tommy..how does it compare in terms of ease of loading and bite sensitivity?


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## Tommy

It is an easy rod to load but it does have backbone.

I expect bite detection to be superb.

Tommy


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## lil red jeep

Tommy said:


> If you like the Surf then i think you will love the Cast Pro 13' 3-6. Thiiner (22mm reel seat) lighter and _slightly_ more powerful.
> 
> I've gotten great reviews from demo and testing.
> 
> Tommy


Tommy, do you have a ballpark on price as to what a factory rod like this will sell for? Feel free to p.m. if not wanting the particulars out yet.


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## KingKrimpet

lil red jeep said:


> Tommy, do you have a ballpark on price as to what a factory rod like this will sell for? Feel free to p.m. if not wanting the particulars out yet.


I would like to know also( on the 13' 3-6), looking at spinning application for a Shimano PA Spinpower, want lowriders(stripper @ 51") from reel seat, so I may have to go with the blank.


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## eric

hey tommy, whats the rod construction like?
spigot or tip over butt?
color?


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## Tacpayne

eric said:


> hey tommy, whats the rod construction like?
> spigot or tip over butt?
> color?


Neither, butt over tip, gloss black


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## vbflyfisher

tommy, are we going to see any video of the rods and you casting them. i'd like to see how they perform.


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## Ryan Y

*These babies are nice!*

Got my initial order in today. Sweet.


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## vbflyfisher

Ryan Y said:


> Got my initial order in today. Sweet.


Could you post a couple pics? Did you get the blank or factory rod?


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## berlix

Got my 13' 3-6 oz CAST PRO SERIES blank this early this week, just put the flex coat on this morning, taking it to the beach in the morning. I must say it is a sweet looking rod. Finish is beautiful, and is amazingly streight.

I wrapped this rod to the specs that Tommy gave me for guide size and quantity (8 plus tip) 

I put a 22 Fuji trigger seat on it and going to put a 6500 ct mag elite on it too.

I will be fihing it next to my AFAW surf rods in spikes for pomps. I am anxious to see how the tip compares with my AFAW. 

Just feeling and flexing the cast pro blank, I believe it may be very very close tip bite detection wise to the AFAW which would make me very happy.

I tried the CTS 3-6, I like the feel of the rod, but the tip is wayyy to stiff for good bite detection. CTS stays home a lot, it has no feel. 


Will find out tomorrow.


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## lil red jeep

Sounds pretty interesting. I didn't know they were available yet. Let us know how it feels.


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## berlix

Well, just got home from the beach.

I fished the cast pro next to my afaw surf and I must say i am very pleased with this new cast pro 13 foot 3-6. 

I fished a 5oz lead and three fleas today. 

With the afaw and the cast pro in spikes next to each other the cast pro and the afaw have the same tip defection, I could not tell any difference. 

Casting the cast pro, it feels sweet just like the afaw surf but with a little more backbone. 

The cast pro had great bite detection, this was my biggest concern. my largest pomp today was just over 23 inch fork, and several nice whiting caught on this rod. The rod looked good when the fish was hitting the bait.

The butt section is a little thiner than the afaw surf and I installed a size 22 trigger fuji on the cast pro vs the size 24 batson trigger I had to put on the afaw surf.

I will be ordering another rod the beginning of the week. 

This rod is a real keeper in my book. it has the right tip action, rod looks beautiful, performs and casts great. for me, I fish only 5oz weights and three fleas for pomps here in south florida I can say nothing but thumbs up, it will go to the beach with me everytime I go. 

I guess you can tell that I love my afaw surfs, I have to say that the cast pro with the little extra backbone is now my favored rod. afaw has nothing on this rod. I never thought I would say such a thing.


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## KingKrimpet

berlix said:


> Well, just got home from the beach.
> 
> I fished the cast pro next to my afaw surf and I must say i am very pleased with this new cast pro 13 foot 3-6.
> 
> I fished a 5oz lead and three fleas today.
> 
> With the afaw and the cast pro in spikes next to each other the cast pro and the afaw have the same tip defection, I could not tell any difference.
> 
> Casting the cast pro, it feels sweet just like the afaw surf but with a little more backbone.
> 
> The cast pro had great bite detection, this was my biggest concern. my largest pomp today was just over 23 inch fork, and several nice whiting caught on this rod. The rod looked good when the fish was hitting the bait.
> 
> The butt section is a little thiner than the afaw surf and I installed a size 22 trigger fuji on the cast pro vs the size 24 batson trigger I had to put on the afaw surf.
> 
> I will be ordering another rod the beginning of the week.
> 
> This rod is a real keeper in my book. it has the right tip action, rod looks beautiful, performs and casts great. for me, I fish only 5oz weights and three fleas for pomps here in south florida I can say nothing but thumbs up, it will go to the beach with me everytime I go.
> 
> I guess you can tell that I love my afaw surfs, I have to say that the cast pro with the little extra backbone is now my favored rod. afaw has nothing on this rod. I never thought I would say such a thing.


Good info, I was curious how the CTS compared to the AFAW for bite detection, if the Cast Pro has bite detection like the Surf and is a little lighter and slimmer I may have to pull the plug!


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## Sea Level

Berlix, very nice user's report on Tommy's new rods. As a fan of the AFAW "Surf" rod I'll be anxious to compare the two rods myself.

As a northeast FL Pompano fisherman I'm just as interested about the 23" Pompano you caught. I caught a limit two days ago here in Flagler County and all the fish were nice sized 14-15" fish. The week before at the Kennedy Space Center all the ones I caught were juveniles of 7-9". Please leave some of those bigguns for us.


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## huckfinn38

Does anybody have the tip size of the 13ft 6-10 oz?


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## Tacpayne

KingKrimpet said:


> Good info, I was curious how the CTS compared to the AFAW for bite detection, if the Cast Pro has bite detection like the Surf and is a little lighter and slimmer I may have to pull the plug!


I also have a 13' 3-6 Cast pro and a CTS 5-8 the Cast pro rod has much better bite detection, I could even feel small blow toads on mine last week. The CTS has a firmer tip and more power, but does not have close the bite detection, They are just 2 different rods with 2 different purposes for me. just my .02


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## KingKrimpet

Tacpayne said:


> I also have a 13' 3-6 Cast pro and a CTS 5-8 the Cast pro rod has much better bite detection, I could even feel small blow toads on mine last week. The CTS has a firmer tip and more power, but does not have close the bite detection, They are just 2 different rods with 2 different purposes for me. just my .02


Thanks for the info, I am looking for something to throw light weight and bait, occasionally sling some 3-4oz metals, and be able to feel a kingfish bite during the summer doldrums in Jersey, sounds like the cast pro may be a good option.


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## Tacpayne

KingKrimpet said:


> Thanks for the info, I am looking for something to throw light weight and bait, occasionally sling some 3-4oz metals, and be able to feel a kingfish bite during the summer doldrums in Jersey, sounds like the cast pro may be a good option.


Yes I agree, teh Cast Pro would be a great option, it will still smoke 3-4oz, but throws 5 great also, havent threw 6 with it yet, so I cant say for sure, will be able to feel those bites no problem


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## berlix

I totally agree with Tacpayne, the CTS and Cast Pro are totally different on bite detection.

Cast Pro has same great bite detection as the AFAW, the CTS is a great blank but has very poor bite detection.... When I get a bite on the Cast Pro you see it happening right away where on the CTS it has to be significant enough of a bite to jerk the rod around to get noticed.


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## Ryan Y

*They are blanks*



vbflyfisher said:


> Could you post a couple pics? Did you get the blank or factory rod?


They look just like them. Gloss black. Heck, most are gone already. I have a few left.

I have been fishing the 6 to 10 ounce heaver quite often when the chance arises. I built the first one last year for Tommy as his prototype. I had in Avon last fall drum fishing. I had one drum on when the eye of the swivel broke. This spring, I have fished it probably 75% of the time I was drum fishing. All I have gotton were blues and countless sharks and rays. 
It is lighter then the WRI blanks and much nicer to hold when wading the point. (We were out some two hundred yards the past couple of days) And I can throw farther with it then anything else I have owned. I do like the bite detection because I can feel a tap with the tip now instead of waiting for a drum to pull first or lighten up on me. I'm gonna build one for myself here again soon and may experiment (I know Tommy will hate to hear that) with the tip by taking an inch off and shortening the butt two to three inchess. ( I like to tinker) We'll see.


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## Ryan Y

*Did you get it yet?*



Jebson38 said:


> Does anybody have the tip size of the 13ft 6-10 oz?


I can measure it for you.


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## huckfinn38

Ill get it this evening when I pick up my blanks


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## Ryan Y

Looks like mine is a 9-10/12


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## KingKrimpet

Anyone else slinging these rods, especially the 13' 3-6?
Sounds as if they are going to fit my needs to a tee, but the more info the better!


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## huckfinn38

I have 2 of the 6-10 oz blanks and I like them a lot. 
Tacpayne has the 3-6 oz blank that you are wanting more information on and he loves it. The rod has great power and a sensitive tip for Pomps, sea monkeys, and Spot. He said it would be a great rod for the florida guys who love to pomp fish.


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## KingKrimpet

Yes, I corresponded with Tacpayne about those issues. I was almost hoping I would hear some negative responses(because I am cheap and can pick up the Team Alabama rod cheaper) but everything is positive so far!


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## berlix

I can tell you no negatives bout the 3-6. 

My second one will be here this tuesday.


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## ReelinRod

Can someone confirm that the blank weight listed on Tommy's site is correct, 17oz for the 3-6?

What is the tip tube size on the 3-6?

I'm reading the comments here about the CTS 3-6 blank being being "_wayyy to stiff for good bite detection_" and in fact having "_very poor bite detection_" with surprise to say the least. 

I first question the build if that is the person's experience with the finished rod as reports from other owners certainly don't conform to that opinion. Up here many guys fishing tournaments use them to target [Jersey] kingfish specifically because they can feel a kingie "out there." 

Unfulfilled requests for "negatives" about the new rod also make me wonder if there honest evaluation going on here or is it just guys shaking pom-poms and doing a "Yaaaaaay GO TEAM!!!!" on the Cast Pro board. 

Seems that way since nobody who has used both a Cast Pro and CTS has noted the obvious negative of the weight difference between the CTS 13'-6" 3-6 and Cast Pro 13' 3-6 (*5ozs+*). Seems like that might be an important consideration to share with KingKrimpet . . . 

Will a 3-6 Cast Pro blank and/or demo rod be making the trip to Marlton?

I really need to see this rod in person.

CTS's will be there.


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## KingKrimpet

Good comments Sarge
I did notice the weight difference right off the bat, I believe the CTS 13'6 blank is 11.1 ounces and about 15.4 wrapped w/ alconites(according to my sources)
I would love to see a side by side comparison as a lot of results are subjective depending on user preference.
My only expierence with CTS was the 11'6 1-3 I had built, I sold my estuary to buy this rod due to the positive posts I heard about it. For my preferences and the type of lures I throw, the estuary was probably the better fit for me.
This is the main reason I am looking for all the feedback I can get - positive and negative, especially if I can't physically compare the two.


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## ReelinRod

For one thing, the "bite detection" issue seems to have two components; for me (and it seems you judging from post 26) *we* speak of how "sensitive" a rod is in the hand, actually how it "feels" as it transmits the bite to us holding the rod. 

To others who fish a spiked rod, it is a matter of how much the rod shakes or deflects when a fish takes the bait . . . 

To me they are entirely different things (and really should be defined as such).

To me the sensitivity of CTS can not be surpassed and physical weight of the rod is a primary factor. The fact that CTS uses no woven fiber and is low-resin pure carbon with very thin wall thickness shows in the sensitivity -- there is *nothing *to damper the vibrations AS THEY TRAVEL DOWN THE ROD. 

"Bite sensitivity" as others are defining it ("_on the CTS it has to be significant enough of a bite to jerk the rod around to get noticed_") could be influenced by many things not entirely the performance of the rod. 

Mono or braid, underwraps or no, built on the spine or under it, even the angle of the spike, etc, etc, etc . . . 

For someone to use their perception of *that* and then declare a rod has "_no feel_" leaves a lot to be desired as evaluations go . . .

If how much a 6oz rated rod shakes and bends is the big issue I have some old Lamiglass Honey blanks stuck in the rafters for them . . . _cheap_!


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## KingKrimpet

ReelinRod said:


> For one thing, the "bite detection" issue seems to have two components; for me (and it seems you judging from post 26) *we* speak of how "sensitive" a rod is in the hand, actually how it "feels" as it transmits the bite to us holding the rod.


Sarge,
I am also talking about feeling the bite with rod in hand, not a visual alert from it spiked. Guess I need to head over to Rich's and see for myself.


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## Tacpayne

Ok I'll clarify my posts, I spoke with KingKrimpet privately through a PM.I do not have a cts 3-6 I have a 5-8 which I made clear, and in my posts I also made clear that they were 2 different rods with 2 different purposes. I did not question anyones ability to build a rod or lay it out properly. The only negative I have about the Cast Pro 3-6 is I dont like gloss blanks, and that pertains to the CTS also, and is only a personal preference so it has no bearing on this conversation.Comparing the 2 rods that I own being the CTS 5-8 and the Cast Pro 3-6 I noted the bite detection between the 2, and also noted that they are not rated equally. I am curious about the spine comment from Sarge because just a few months ago you were busting my balls about there not being a spine, when I said there was. I also wonder if your interjecting your negatives into this without ever having held the cast pro blank because you have a business interest in teh CTS line....


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## ReelinRod

Tacpayne said:


> I also wonder if your interjecting your negatives into this without ever having held the cast pro blank because you have a business interest in teh CTS line....


The only "negative" I have brought up about the Cast Pro rod is the blank weight. I am not here blindly bashing Cast Pro, my *ONLY* comment about Cast Pro is pertaining to its weight which if the stats posted on Tommy's site are true doesn't require a hands-on test. I'm only here defending what I believe are unfounded or misdirected criticisms of CTS. 

KingKrimpet asked about sensitivity . . . and that was turned around into how much a spiked rod bends or dances when a fish hits . . . If* that* is what "bite detection" is and such a quality is of primary concern then why are we even discussing high modulus graphite/carbon rods in the same breath? One would automatically be searching for a composite rod with E or S Glass in the tip, no? (which of course would work _against_ "sensitivity")

Which brings me to ask, what is the actual construction of the Cast Pro blank, is it composite? And I'll ask again, what is the tip tube size on the Cast Pro 3-6?

KingKrimpet asked about the weight of the Cast Pro and that inquiry was ignored . . . Why?

I will acquiesce and will agree that a spine can be found in CTS. 

I don't need to disparage Cast Pro rods to prop up CTS; I sincerely hope some Cast Pro product comes up to Marlton so I can give them a shake.


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## Tacpayne

I dont know for sure that the listed weights are correct, as I only have the rod my son custom built. The 13'3-6 cast pro, fully built conventional with a very long closed wrap and an alps aluminum reelseet, and eva foam split grips weighed 25.3 oz just now on my scales. I have a few more blanks on teh way so I could weigh them then. Again I feel like these are 2 different rods for 2 different applications for me, and my style of fishing.I also feel the the 13' 3-6 cast pro, more closely compares to the CTS 13'6" 5-8 in terms of power. I think the CTS sweet spot is 5-6 depending on the caster, and the cast pro sweet spot would be 4-5. They are hard rods to compare, and I also hope you have a chance to handle some they are very nice blanks. I also want to point out that glass has its place in rod construction. The best freshwater crankbait rod is a s glass seeker, this is the opinion of some of the best bass anglers in the world. 
I also want to say that weight isnt the only factor to comfort while fishing. I love my cts rods, no doubt about it, I have only had the cast pro for a short time, and so far I love it also. The rods construction and balance makes a huge difference in comfort and percieved weight of a rod. IF I was going to compare the Cast Pro line of blanks to another line, I would chose the AFAW line, not CTS, as there is a closer comparison between the 2.


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## Tacpayne

Oh and as far as sensitivity All I can say for sure is last week I could feel a 4" blow toad on the Cast Pro, every move of it, while I was using 4oz of weight to cast. I will get more time on the rod soon, and will have a better more developed opinion then...


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## jakuka

I don't think Sarge was saying anything negative about Cast Pro rods. I think he was just suspect from the manner in which comments were made about both rods. I would have to agree that the reviews of the Cast Pro weren't necessarily objective, but I enjoyed reading them nonetheless. I'm also anxious to see the Cast Pro rods and how they differ from AFAW. If any of these rods were supremely superior to the other they wouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath. I love my AFAW and am curious how the Cast Pro rods compare and differ. Either way, I'm glad Cast Pro rods are here and wish them much success.


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## Tacpayne

jakuka said:


> I don't think Sarge was saying anything negative about Cast Pro rods. I think he was just suspect from the manner in which comments were made about both rods. I would have to agree that the reviews of the Cast Pro weren't necessarily objective, but I enjoyed reading them nonetheless. I'm also anxious to see the Cast Pro rods and how they differ from AFAW. If any of these rods were supremely superior to the other they wouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath. I love my AFAW and am curious how the Cast Pro rods compare and differ. Either way, I'm glad Cast Pro rods are here and wish them much success.


Looks like we are close to each other, I would offer you the chance to cast any of my rods, which include the CTS and Cast pro line so you can compare and make a decision yourself. I do feel like the rods havent been out long enough to make a complete opinion for most people. Some, like Ryan have logged a lot of time on the rods, and are qualified to speak of the performance of the rods. I myself havent formed a complete opinion on the rods yet, I only have the 7 days I have fished it to base my statements on.
The only thing I can say is either get one and try it out, or give it some time to see what the "masses" say towards the end of the season. JMHO...


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## jakuka

Tacpayne said:


> Looks like we are close to each other, I would offer you the chance to cast any of my rods, which include the CTS and Cast pro line so you can compare and make a decision yourself. I do feel like the rods havent been out long enough to make a complete opinion for most people. Some, like Ryan have logged a lot of time on the rods, and are qualified to speak of the performance of the rods. I myself havent formed a complete opinion on the rods yet, I only have the 7 days I have fished it to base my statements on.
> The only thing I can say is either get one and try it out, or give it some time to see what the "masses" say towards the end of the season. JMHO...


Thanks for the offer Tac! I may take you up on that sometime in the near future. Very nice gesture.


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## Ryan Y

*I cant speak about the CTS's though.*

I've only thrown a CTS once or twice. I have thrown the WRI stuff pretty much exclusively for the past four or five years. (?) 

Heaver to heaver, Cast Pro 6 to 10 vs the fusion, there is a significant difference. I'm not saying that it is a problem though. I like both rods but the 6 to 10 Cast Pro is hands down lighter and narrower. I can throw it farther, and it's a lot easier to hold while wading. In the hands, the bite detection is good, better than I expected. Better then the WRI fusions and Mags. However, when I'm fishing for big drum, the bite detection isn't really important to me, the hook setting power is. 

The Cast Pro loads much easier too making it an exceptional rod that find the WRI stuff heavy, cumbersome, and to hard load.
I will also have to admit though that the WRI rods purpose was a little different then the Cast Pro stuff too. (Blank to Blank).

I've had one fish on the Cast Pro and hook him clicking at night. I lost him the wash...

I think at distance, the hook set is going to better on the WRI stuff over the cast pro. Ditto for clicking at night. I also don't know how much of an advantage a better "bite" detector is going to be when a big drum hits. I could tell though when the small blues were eating away at the bait on the cast pro vs the sinker "slipping in" on the fusions.

So my thoughts? I'm gonna own both as for some of the reasons stated above. I also like to have at least two of everything so when I put down one I can pick up the same thing in return...no figuring things out.

Sorry I'm leaving the AFAW stuff out as I've only had experience trying them out from time to time.

A good way for to some up the CCP rods would be to compare it to an older rainshadow 1509 and 1502. A little stiffer mid blank like the 1509 and a little softer tip like the 1502.

I need to get the rod I built for Tommy back to get my measurements from it again. If I can remember, i'll snap a few pictures of the two side by side.
I too am not a fan of the gloss blank though.


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## Tommy

Guys,

Thanks for the GO TEAM and pom pom shaking.... 

It is much appreciated.

I've been fishing at Hatteras so I didn't see this thread until last night. I appreciate all of the positive comments, so far the rods are exeeding my expectations in performance and fishability.

There are only a handful out there being fished. Most of the first round of blanks are gone so i expect to see more reports coming soon. Will they fit everybody's style perfectly and just blow everything else out of the water??? I would love to say that but I know better. Fishermen (and women) are different in their likes, dislikes, wants and needs. 

I have worked hard to develop a lineup of high performance surf rods built from high quality carbon fiber and to offer them at a fair price. I've been working on this for a year now and have cast and fished my way through many prototypes and test rods to come up with the final versions. 

I hope you (the fishermen) like the final product.

As far as a head to head comparison to CTS rods, I am honestly flattered to see the reviews coming in so favorable. I cannot make a honest comparison, the only CTS rod i have cast was a one off tournament rod which really doesn't compare to the any of the fishing rods. I would welcome the chance to do a side by side test, I think it could prove interesting. If anyone has one and would like to get together for some field testing, let me know.

The 13' 3-6 CPS blank weighs in at *16.1* oz. The tip is* 3.14 mm*. I weighed each blank myself and then rounded up to the nearest ounce just to be safe. I didn't realize it would become a hot topic so quickly. The rod is well balanced and casts like a dream. Some very seasoned fishermen at Cape Hatteras have put it through the ringer and just love it as a long range puppy drum/sea mullet rod. They are impressed with the way it casts and fights a fish. I could not be happier with the feedback.... 

Ryan,

Thanks for the honest evaluation of the 6-10 heaver. Ryan built the original prototype and has fished the rod more than anyone, myself included.

I think Ryan pretty much nailed it, the rod is lightweight, very powerful and has a tip that is a little softer than the WRI heavers, the 1509 all star and rainshadow blanks. I have field tested it against most of the heavers out there, and for my fishing cast it consistantly came out on top in distance. Same reel, same sinker, same day. I know this is highly subjective and your results may vary. One thing that impresses me the most is how easy the rod is to cast and load but still delivers real world fishing distance.

I have fished it hard for the past 4 days and am very happy with the way it feels, casts and fights a fish. No big drum but a LOT of smooth and spiney dogfish, some pretty good size.

Thanks again for the comments, feedback and pom pom shakes!!



Tommy


----------



## lil red jeep

Tommy,

Do you have a guestimate as to when the factory built rods will be available?


----------



## Tommy

Yes finally. The long FUJI guide delay is over and production is in progress. I hope to have rods in hand in about 3 weeks.

Tommy


----------



## huckfinn38

ReelinRod said:


> For one thing, the "bite detection" issue seems to have two components; for me (and it seems you judging from post 26) *we* speak of how "sensitive" a rod is in the hand, actually how it "feels" as it transmits the bite to us holding the rod.
> 
> To others who fish a spiked rod, it is a matter of how much the rod shakes or deflects when a fish takes the bait . . .
> 
> To me they are entirely different things (and really should be defined as such).
> 
> To me the sensitivity of CTS can not be surpassed and physical weight of the rod is a primary factor. The fact that CTS uses no woven fiber and is low-resin pure carbon with very thin wall thickness shows in the sensitivity -- there is *nothing *to damper the vibrations AS THEY TRAVEL DOWN THE ROD.
> 
> "Bite sensitivity" as others are defining it ("_on the CTS it has to be significant enough of a bite to jerk the rod around to get noticed_") could be influenced by many things not entirely the performance of the rod.
> 
> Mono or braid, underwraps or no, built on the spine or under it, even the angle of the spike, etc, etc, etc . . .
> 
> For someone to use their perception of *that* and then declare a rod has "_no feel_" leaves a lot to be desired as evaluations go . . .
> 
> If how much a 6oz rated rod shakes and bends is the big issue I have some old Lamiglass Honey blanks stuck in the rafters for them . . . _cheap_!


Sarge can you speak on the breakage issue that the CTS are having. I heard from a very reliable source that the lighter CTS are breaking a lot. I dont know if it is because the blanks are high modulous carbon, super light as you noted (which correlates often with rods breaking) or the fact that the NE guys are harder on rods than us southern guys. I know I have a CTS heaver and it broke first fishing trip on a dog shark.

Are CTS Light and sensitive, YES. Are there issues that come from that, YES.

Give we a C, Give me an A, Give me a S, Give me a T, Give me P, Give me an R, Give me an O...>Whats that spell CAST PRO-Followed by spirit fingers, shaking pom poms, and a jump split.


----------



## ReelinRod

Jebson38 said:


> Sarge can you speak on the breakage issue that the CTS are having. I heard from a very reliable source that the lighter CTS are breaking a lot.


Does your reliable source know what model rods have broken and how many? How about the conditions of the breakage? How many have broken being _*fished*_?

What's the over and under on "a lot"? Let's put it this way, a guy with really bad luck with firecrackers can still count the breakages on one hand . . . 

Ask your source to tell you what to post for answers to my questions. I'll check back tomorrow and score him (and give the correct answers).



Jebson38 said:


> I dont know if it is because the blanks are high modulous carbon, super light as you noted (which correlates often with rods breaking) or the fact that the NE guys are harder on rods than us southern guys. I know I have a CTS heaver and it broke first fishing trip on a dog shark.


How did that happen? Are you saying the guys who take the little 11'-6" 1-3oz to Mexico and catch 50lb Jacks and 75lb Roosterfish on them are just having exceptionally good luck?



Jebson38 said:


> Are CTS Light and sensitive, YES. Are there issues that come from that, YES.


(Psssst, you're trying too hard.) 



Jebson38 said:


> Give we a C, Give me an A, Give me a S, Give me a T, Give me P, Give me an R, Give me an O...>Whats that spell CAST PRO-Followed by spirit fingers, shaking pom poms, and a jump split.


I will make an assumption about Cast-Pro rods - I doubt they will respond well to high-sticking which is the usual cause of breaks in graphite/carbon rods, CTS included.


----------



## huckfinn38

A sponsor of this board brings blanks to the public, sponsors this board, and has his own section on this board ans you come to his section of the board to question his blanks and push your blanks.....u are a troll. U lost all credibility when u said spinners threw as far Ss casting rods. Why don't sponsor your own board to sell your own blanks troll


----------



## huckfinn38

Pssssst you are a troll


----------



## ReelinRod

Jebson38 said:


> A sponsor of this board brings blanks to the public, sponsors this board, and has his own section on this board ans you come to his section of the board to question his blanks and push your blanks.....u are a troll. U lost all credibility when u said spinners threw as far Ss casting rods. Why don't sponsor your own board to sell your own blanks troll


Are you for real?

Come back when you sober up goofball.


----------



## Tommy

Guys,

I appreciate the support and also respect Rod's differing opinions but this will not degrade into a pissing contest.

Rod, I've known you for a while and have come respect your opinion. I'm really not sure why you have chosen to air issues here. A few of my blanks are out and so far, they are being well received. I'm looking forward to a positive debut of the CPS rods very soon and it seems a little odd that you are here taking shots. Have guys made comparisons to CTS?? Yes. I hope that positive comparisons are made to other rods out there too.

No need to quote chop, we know you are very good at it.

CTS makes a fine rod. I _genuinely hope_ you do well in your business venture. 

As paying board sponsor I am also moderator. Keep it clean. 

Tommy


----------



## ReelinRod

I'm not here "airing issues" I'm just here addressing some pot-shots taken at CTS. 

Have I made a single derogatory comment about Cast-Pro? 

I hope your line does well, I just wish the product launch can be done without a program of "competitor assassination" (especially when it's BS)

And as for keeping it clean . . . 

I get the warning and Jebson gets a skate?

Really?

*REALLY?*

You guys have fun here, I won't be disrupting the program anymore.


----------



## Ryan Y

No lines means no waiting....

I've high stuck a CCP rod on sharks and rays so far. (I doubt the warranty would cover it) It stuck a fin from a thorny in my waders. 

Ive got a Cast Pro Heaver, Im gonna fish the hell of it.
I know Tommy, I trudt him, his skills and the rods.


----------



## Tommy

To clarify,

The warning was for all.

Tommy



ReelinRod said:


> I'm not here "airing issues" I'm just here addressing some pot-shots taken at CTS.
> 
> Have I made a single derogatory comment about Cast-Pro?
> 
> I hope your line does well, I just wish the product launch can be done without a program of "competitor assassination" (especially when it's BS)
> 
> And as for keeping it clean . . .
> 
> I get the warning and Jebson gets a skate?
> 
> Really?
> 
> *REALLY?*
> 
> You guys have fun here, I won't be disrupting the program anymore.


----------



## KingKrimpet

What is the warranty on these blanks?


----------



## ReelinRod

I do not want to leave Jebson38's "breakage issue" of "a lot" of CTS's unaddressed.

Three built rods have been broken by us (RH Custom Rods Pro-Staff) by bending the snot out of them without running line through the guides.

We have discovered CTS can not perform the UglyStik / Rhino Rod test and have promised Rich we won't do that again







. . . 

The rods were:
One 8 footer rated 1/2 to 1-5/8
Two 9's rated 1/2 to 2-5/8


----------



## huckfinn38

How long have you guys been selling the CTS? I would assume here recently. Prior to you guys being a distributor, there was another one. So your report of there only being 3 CTS broken maybe incorrect. 

I like CTS rods and they are good rods. I am keeping 2 of the heavers in my arsenal. But I also know about some of the issues with them.
You mention high sticking, the kind of fishing we do down here requires some high sticking. If you are in waste deep water with a 13 ft rod you need to high stick a little bit to get a fish slid to you. As RYoung said, he has put the Cast Pro Rods to the test, fishing like we do, and no breaks yet.

People are going to have opions on rods, just because you dont like their opinion does not mean you need to say their opion is wrong. Different strokes for differnt folks...


----------



## NTKG

Sarge,

I was parked next to Jeb when this CTS breakage happened. It was not a high stick and the rod just broke, it was a little doggie. I attribute it to the same reason I've seen other brand new rods break. It just happens sometimes. The big question is if CTS covers it under warranty or if he was just out a couple hundred bucks. I've seen more than one break.


I also saw a bunch of WRI stuff break as well. I've had it break on a cast. 

Basically i've seen all of them break, minus the bps OM. that seems to be mr. indestructable.



Tommy,

How is the warranty on your stuff?


Ryan,

If you don't mind i'd love to throw that thing for a little bit.


I have been waiting on a fusion mag replacement since October of 09. They gave me a defective tip section to hold me over until a new batch comes in. I have been keeping my mouth shut about WRI, but for my next few heavers I would like to purchase from a company that both has the ability and desire to communicate and warranty their product.


----------



## ReelinRod

Jebson38 said:


> How long have you guys been selling the CTS? I would assume here recently.


Rich has been building and selling them since they came here, what mid 08 or so? He became a distributor in the fall of last year.



Jebson38 said:


> Prior to you guys being a distributor, there was another one.


Correct and one reason Rich became a distributor is to serve the *North East* consumer with the plugging sticks and lighter, pencil popper stuff that they use up here . . . His distributorship was established as (and* is*, to the best of MY knowledge and his business practice) a REGIONAL distributorship. There are of course rumors regarding Fishsticks' status as a CTS distributor, (that they're not anymore). Does your secret agent have any intelligence pertaining to that? 

AFAIK, both permutations of Fishsticks pretty much just dealt with the S8 Surf series (Heavers); anything other than that was a special order with the usual retail upcharges that make such special orders worthwhile/profitable for the distributor/builder but then unaffordable for a fisherman looking for a 9ft light plugging stick or 10ft pencil popper rod . . . 

Rich has brought in over 20 different blanks in other (besides S8) series (actions) and we are evaluating them for the demands of NE fishermen. 

Nobody is harder on blanks than rockcrawling Montauk guys and Canal Rats on Cape Cod. There are dozens of different CTS's in the hands of some of the most renown builders and surfcasters and fishing magazine editors on Long Island and the Cape. Any issues with quality, durability, or fishability will be evident *very* soon as their bass run is barely started up there. 

No doubt, their "opinions" be much better publicized than your anonymous "heard it from a reliable source" LOL!



Jebson38 said:


> So your report of there only being 3 CTS broken maybe incorrect.


Could be, I'm not keeping the CTS history for the USA; *you* are the one with the inside info and the backstory on everything CTS. 

Questions regarding your claims have been asked about what rods, how many etc, and you haven't offered anything that qualifies as hard and fast evidence . . . Your statement that it is "_the lighter CTS [that] are breaking a lot_" led me to assume that you were talking about the "lighter" blanks that RH has brought into this country and that we have broken recently. See, there's the trouble with "_I heard it from a guy that . . ._"

The "lighter" ones that Fishsticks have sold (the S8 11'-6" perhaps?) and the Southern Command has broken, we have no knowledge of that. (And why/how would we?)



Jebson38 said:


> People are going to have opions on rods, just because you dont like their opinion does not mean you need to say their opion is wrong. Different strokes for differnt folks...


It's not just a matter of differing opinions . . . It's been the statements made about CTS that IMNSHO are disingenuous.

I remember the accolades for CTS when they first came out; there were a lot of posts on here about them and their "sensitivity" and yet we NOW have a conversation here going on that says that CTS has no bite detection and no feel, heck, ya might as well have an iron pipe in your hand . . . GMAFB

-----------------------------------------

I apologize to Tommy for hijacking this thread and suggest he create a new "Comparisons" thread and merge these CTS posts into it. 

And just a statement about the impression that some seem to have that I am bashing Cast-Pro or don't respect Tommy; I would like for someone to quote a statement from me that calls into question Tommy's veracity, honesty, ability or knowledge or* anything* I have said that's negative about Cast Pro rods. 

Look, I'm certainly willing to discuss things in a civil manner . . . If the same respect is extended to me. Jebson38's post to me was uncalled for and an insult. I answer him now only to not leave his questions/claims hanging; *if it is asked I will answer to the best of my ability*. 

If answering/addressing those questions is not a desired activity on *this* board say so and perhaps an "interested party" can start a CTS complaint thread in the Rod Building forum where I can address/answer their issues without stepping on toes. 

------------------------------------
CTS has a lifetime replacement warranty on the blank; abuse and misuse are not covered.


----------



## Tommy

ReelinRod said:


> Rich has been building and selling them since they came here, what mid 08 or so? He became a distributor in the fall of last year.
> 
> 
> 
> Correct and one reason Rich became a distributor is to serve the *North East* consumer with the plugging sticks and lighter, pencil popper stuff that they use up here . . . His distributorship was established as (and* is*, to the best of MY knowledge and his business practice) a REGIONAL distributorship. There are of course rumors regarding Fishsticks' status as a CTS distributor, (that they're not anymore). Does your secret agent have any intelligence pertaining to that?
> 
> AFAIK, both permutations of Fishsticks pretty much just dealt with the S8 Surf series (Heavers); anything other than that was a special order with the usual retail upcharges that make such special orders worthwhile/profitable for the distributor/builder but then unaffordable for a fisherman looking for a 9ft light plugging stick or 10ft pencil popper rod . . .
> 
> Rich has brought in over 20 different blanks in other (besides S8) series (actions) and we are evaluating them for the demands of NE fishermen.
> 
> Nobody is harder on blanks than rockcrawling Montauk guys and Canal Rats on Cape Cod. There are dozens of different CTS's in the hands of some of the most renown builders and surfcasters and fishing magazine editors on Long Island and the Cape. Any issues with quality, durability, or fishability will be evident *very* soon as their bass run is barely started up there.
> 
> No doubt, their "opinions" be much better publicized than your anonymous "heard it from a reliable source" LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> Could be, I'm not keeping the CTS history for the USA; *you* are the one with the inside info and the backstory on everything CTS.
> 
> Questions regarding your claims have been asked about what rods, how many etc, and you haven't offered anything that qualifies as hard and fast evidence . . . Your statement that it is "_the lighter CTS [that] are breaking a lot_" led me to assume that you were talking about the "lighter" blanks that RH has brought into this country and that we have broken recently. See, there's the trouble with "_I heard it from a guy that . . ._"
> 
> The "lighter" ones that Fishsticks have sold (the S8 11'-6" perhaps?) and the Southern Command has broken, we have no knowledge of that. (And why/how would we?)
> 
> 
> 
> It's not just a matter of differing opinions . . . It's been the statements made about CTS that IMNSHO are disingenuous.
> 
> I remember the accolades for CTS when they first came out; there were a lot of posts on here about them and their "sensitivity" and yet we NOW have a conversation here going on that says that CTS has no bite detection and no feel, heck, ya might as well have an iron pipe in your hand . . . GMAFB
> 
> -----------------------------------------
> 
> I apologize to Tommy for hijacking this thread and suggest he create a new "Comparisons" thread and merge these CTS posts into it.
> 
> And just a statement about the impression that some seem to have that I am bashing Cast-Pro or don't respect Tommy; I would like for someone to quote a statement from me that calls into question Tommy's veracity, honesty, ability or knowledge or* anything* I have said that's negative about Cast Pro rods.
> 
> Look, I'm certainly willing to discuss things in a civil manner . . . If the same respect is extended to me. Jebson38's post to me was uncalled for and an insult. I answer him now only to not leave his questions/claims hanging; *if it is asked I will answer to the best of my ability*.
> 
> If answering/addressing those questions is not a desired activity on *this* board say so and perhaps an "interested party" can start a CTS complaint thread in the Rod Building forum where I can address/answer their issues without stepping on toes.
> 
> ------------------------------------
> CTS has a lifetime replacement warranty on the blank; abuse and misuse are not covered.


Thank you Rod.

Tommy


----------



## huckfinn38

Sorry Tommy if I insulted this guy but his comment about all of us...""going on here or is it just guys shaking pom-poms and doing a "Yaaaaaay GO TEAM!!!!" on the Cast Pro board." got under my skin. I dont think a man needs to go on another man's business forum and call all supporters cheerleaders and try and push his own products.

For my little buddy here, I have no reason to disclose my reliable source. I have seen 2 personal CTS break in person and I baby my stuff. That is a pretty reliable source dont you think. I have owned 3 so I am 2 for 3...That is disingenuous opinion though.... I also would like to know how many rods has your builder seen break including the ones prior to being him becoming a distributor??? You did not answer that. In addition, since your rods have not really even been tested yet or will be tested when the bass run starts how can you have such an opinion about them???...Opinions offered were based on the rods we have used...The S8 Heavers and plugging rods. We have seen none of the rods you guys are distributing and I dont think anyone had an opinion on those.

When you start off your post by insinuating we are cheerleaders, that is not civil manner discussion...Well maybe in your world it is but usually insulting a group based on their opions is not civil conversation...Move on sell your blanks and let Tommy sell his...

Or sponsor a board as Tommy has done so you can sell your cts rods there???? That is a good idea instead of using Tommy's board.


----------



## huckfinn38

Oh and I am sure Fishsticks will continue to sell both CTS and Cast Pro Stuff so give Scott a call. He is honest and a pleasure to deal with.


----------



## Tommy

KingKrimpet said:


> What is the warranty on these blanks?


KK,

The waranty on the Cast Pro Rods/Blanks is for one year. 

Those that have done business with me in the past when I was selling AFAW know that I go out of my way to provide good customer service. It is the right way to do business.

Tommy


----------



## Hudak

Tommy said:


> Those that have done business with me in the past when I was selling AFAW know that I go out of my way to provide good customer service. It is the right way to do business.


For what it is worth, I can personally vouch for that. I have seen first hand Tommy do everything humanly possible to make sure that his customers are happy.

Robert


----------



## pinfish

All I can say is from experience, I personally have replaced at least 15 broken CTS SE blanks, I will say CTS has been able to replace everyone.


> AFAIK, both permutations of Fishsticks pretty much just dealt with the S8 Surf series (Heavers); anything other than that was a special order with the usual retail upcharges that make such special orders worthwhile/profitable for the distributor/builder but then unaffordable for a fisherman looking for a 9ft light plugging stick or 10ft pencil popper rod . . .


 I would like to see you and Rich try to stock all of the items CTS sells. The only way to deal with all of the DIFFERENT request that I receive is to order them and I not only sell SE blanks as you try to indicate. I am sure that in my shop I have more CTS blanks by mistake then you even thought to have on purpose. I am a non biased seller of all of my products and try to sell to the customer what they want and also what they need. If you want to know how Tommy's blanks perform against CTS up in your area, ask Jim Parker or Gary Born and they will let you know what they think of both blanks.
Scott Parsons


----------



## Kwesi W.

This is not my fight.. However I think you guys are comparing two totally different animals. I got to see tommy's blanks at last year's nationals (didnt cast them) and they seem to be more like the AFAW Surf\Beach. I can't speak on how they cast\fish bc I haven't done either, but I personally would like to see how they compare to the AFAW line of rods. In my opinion the CTS Surf Blanks (I own the 5-8) are more of a finesse blank. I must say for me the bite detection is superb.

Side Note: I created a post months ago about tackle trends "2010 Must have rods", and from the outside looking in it does seem like some people are going a little overboard. Me being the owner of some of the older "latest and greatest" products (HDX, AFAW beach, 1509, Purglas,Ballistic, etc..) I must say all have been as advertised, but it also seems like the newest ones (at the time) are always the best of the bunch. Just makes you say hmmmmm...

I also hope to see one at NJ, I would love to cast it..


----------



## huckfinn38

Well we will be conducting the following test this weekend on the field.
Our main focus will be distance and feel.

We will be pairing the following:
13.5ft 5-8 oz CTS vs CCP 12ft 4-7 oz testing with 5 oz-CTS should have distance advantage here
13ft 3-6 oz CTS vs CCP 13ft 3-6 oz testing with 4 oz
13ft 8-12 oz CTS vs CCP 13ft 6-10 oz testing with 8 oz

Chuck, Robert, Scott do any of you have a scale we can measure weight?
I will have my CCP 6-10 oz built by this weekend since I dont build purty rods. It will be named poppa smurf.

Last night while installing a 22 trigger reel seat I noticed that the reel seat would not slide all the way down the blank. If you guys run into this problem, it just takes about 2 minutes of reaming to the REEL SEAT to fix. 
I did not measure the rod with a micormeter, so it may have just been a bad batch of Fuji Standard trigger reel seats. But it was easy to fix, so dont freak out at first if your trigger reel seat dont fit.


----------



## pinfish

I will bring my Scale


----------



## Kwesi W.

Could you also incluge the AFAW surf and AWAF Beach if you have them? What type of cast will you be using? In my opinion a off the ground cast may be a better cast for the CTS rods.. Just my opinion




Jebson38 said:


> Well we will be conducting the following test this weekend on the field.
> Our main focus will be distance and feel.
> 
> We will be pairing the following:
> 13.5ft 5-8 oz CTS vs CCP 12ft 4-7 oz testing with 5 oz-CTS should have distance advantage here
> 13ft 3-6 oz CTS vs CCP 13ft 3-6 oz testing with 4 oz
> 13ft 8-12 oz CTS vs CCP 13ft 6-10 oz testing with 8 oz
> 
> Chuck, Robert, Scott do any of you have a scale we can measure weight?
> I will have my CCP 6-10 oz built by this weekend since I dont build purty rods. It will be named poppa smurf.
> 
> Last night while installing a 22 trigger reel seat I noticed that the reel seat would not slide all the way down the blank. If you guys run into this problem, it just takes about 2 minutes of reaming to the REEL SEAT to fix.
> I did not measure the rod with a micormeter, so it may have just been a bad batch of Fuji Standard trigger reel seats. But it was easy to fix, so dont freak out at first if your trigger reel seat dont fit.


----------



## Tommy

I don't have a Beach or Surf. I sold most of my AFAW's (and other rods too) to raise capital for the new rod line. I did cast the early prototype Heaver against the Beach (same reel, same day) and the CPS 6-10 came out on top. I also cast it against the Big Beach. This was a much closer matchup with the big beach coming out _slightly_ ahead on distance. This was a 14' rod vs a 13' rod and I actually expected the BB to be significantly ahead. I was pleasantly surprised... 

While a groundcast would be fine, IMHO the true test will be the cast that most guys use for fishing. I am a huge advocate of the groundcast but know (at least around here) that many more fishermen use a beach, or hatteras style cast so again, IMHO, that would be the best test cast. Also you would need to look at what the casters are comfortable with. 

I am very interested to see how this, and future tests come out.

Looking at the lineup, I see the 13'6" 5-8 CTS having a pretty significant advantage over the CPS 12' 3-7. The 12' 3-7 is laid out as a user friendly, parabolic, light heaver that is more suited for hours of fishing than ultimate distance. Giving up 18" in length will hurt the distance but that is OK. Should make for interesting results.... 

The Heaver vs Heaver and the two 3-6 rods should make for a very interesting comparison.

Wish i could be there guys, enjoy... 

Tommy


----------



## KingKrimpet

13ft 3-6 oz CTS vs CCP 13ft 3-6 oz testing with 4 oz
Anyone have a Team Alabama rod they could through into the mix?


----------



## huckfinn38

kmw21230 said:


> Could you also incluge the AFAW surf and AWAF Beach if you have them? What type of cast will you be using? In my opinion a off the ground cast may be a better cast for the CTS rods.. Just my opinion


Our test will be using fishing gear and standard hatteras cast.


----------



## huckfinn38

Looking at the lineup, I see the 13'6" 5-8 CTS having a pretty significant advantage over the CPS 12' 3-7. The 12' 3-7 is laid out as a user friendly, parabolic, light heaver that is more suited for hours of fishing than ultimate distance. Giving up 18" in length will hurt the distance but that is OK. Should make for interesting results.... 

The Heaver vs Heaver and the two 3-6 rods should make for a very interesting comparison.

Wish i could be there guys, enjoy... 

Tommy[/QUOTE]


Chuck and I talked about the CTS 5-8 and the CCP comparison being unfair, but thought it would be fun...You never know the results until you try them


----------



## huckfinn38

I wish we had a 10 ft 1-4 oz cts to compare as well


----------



## Tommy

If you guys don't mind expanding just a bit, try a 5 or 6 oz (maybe a 150 tourney) sinker on the 3-6 rods.



I love this stuff...lol

Tommy


----------



## huckfinn38

Tommy said:


> If you guys don't mind expanding just a bit, try a 5 or 6 oz (maybe a 150 tourney) sinker on the 3-6 rods.
> 
> 
> 
> I love this stuff...lol
> 
> Tommy


After I said 4 oz, I thought it may be light..5 will be the go to weight.


----------



## Tacpayne

I have a 10' 1-4 Cast pro blank that I could tape up this weekend, but I dont have a cts to compare it to...


----------



## Mark G

All right who's taking odds ? 

From a pure distance stand point, I would expect the heaver version of the CCP to win out over the CTS. I only gave it a shake at the shallotte tournament-- but it is definitely more stout (in a good way) than the CTS heaver.

It's definitely going to be tough for the middle line up for the CCP rod, given up 18" in length to the 5-8 oz CTS (one of my personal favorites, as a light heaver).

But isn't this getting a bit off track -- I thought the original debate was over sensitivity or bite detection-- an entirely different matter from pure distance.

It's obviously tough to mechanically measure sensitivity-- it's highly subjective-- but that WAS the subject at hand, was it not ?? 

It's kind of funny, a debate over sensitivity is turned into something else altogether. 

I don't have a care one way or the other, so have the contest. It still won't mean diddly about sensitivity, and unless you invite someone from the CTS camp to participate, some might question the results.

Personally, I liked what I saw in Tommy's new line up of rods, and if I didn't already own more rods than a sane person should, I'd have the heaver version on order already-- it's always great to have new products to try.


----------



## KingKrimpet

Mark G said:


> All right who's taking odds ?
> 
> From a pure distance stand point, I would expect the heaver version of the CCP to win out over the CTS. I only gave it a shake at the shallotte tournament-- but it is definitely more stout than the CTS heaver.
> 
> It's definitely going to be tough for the middle line up for the CCP rod, given up 18" in length to the 5-8 oz CTS (one of my personal favorites, as a light heaver).
> 
> *But isn't this getting a bit off track -- I thought the original debate was over sensitivity or bite detection-- an entirely different matter from pure distance*.
> 
> It's obviously tough to mechanically measure sensitivity-- it's highly subjective-- but that WAS the subject at hand, was it not ??
> 
> It's kind of funny, a debate over sensitivity is turned into something else altogether.
> 
> I don't have a care one way or the other, so have the contest. It still won't mean diddly about sensitivity, and unless you invite someone from the CTS camp to participate, some might question the results.
> 
> Personally, I liked what I saw in Tommy's new line up of rods, and if I didn't already own more rods than a sane person should, I'd have the heaver version on order already-- it's always great to have new products to try.


That is the question at hand, at least for me, which rod will have the greater ability to feel the nibble,nibble while in my hands. I do not doubt for a minute that both rods( 3-6) will get the job done, I just want to know that when the little bity kingfish bites, I won't miss the hit


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## huckfinn38

Mark this test is not to defend or prove the points previously argued. As for CTS rods I have tried to say all along that I like them, I just question their durability, which has been backed by PIN Fish. I also said I was keeping a CTS Heaver in my aresenal. 
I wont be reporting back on durability because time will tell which rod is more durable. 
I will report an honest opinion on distance and which rod feels better to my hand. Each cast will be measured by a laser range finder. 

Right off the bat I can tell you lightness goes to CTS, Diameter and grip go to CCP.
I got a 22 trigger on CCP and a 24 trigger on the CTS. I have small hands and like small diameter blanks.


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## huckfinn38

KingKrimpet said:


> That is the question at hand, at least for me, which rod will have the greater ability to feel the nibble,nibble while in my hands. I do not doubt for a minute that both rods( 3-6) will get the job done, I just want to know that when the little bity kingfish bites, I won't miss the hit


Only way to test that is buy both use them for king fish.....
I dont know many people who hold rods while fishing for sea mullet. I guess you guys up north take sea mullet fishing seriously. Are lighter fast action rods usually more sensitive yes. However Tommy's rods, I think are built like a lot of European rods...Strong butts, strong mid sections, and sensitive tips....He can correct me if I am wrong. Thats how they feel to me. You might be able to feel a bite better on a CTS but see it better on a CCP. I spike for mullet so feeling the nible is not as important to me as hitting the outer bar if they are deep.


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## KingKrimpet

Jebson38 said:


> Only way to test that is buy both use them for king fish.....
> I dont know many people who hold rods while fishing for sea mullet. I guess you guys up north take sea mullet fishing seriously.


I prefer it to all other fishing!:beer:


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## Kwesi W.

I agree with most of what you said. Mark, are you assuming the stiffer pole will cast further? I haven't casted the CCP rods, but the CTS seems to have more of a C bend which may make the difference.












Mark G said:


> All right who's taking odds ?
> 
> From a pure distance stand point, I would expect the heaver version of the CCP to win out over the CTS. I only gave it a shake at the shallotte tournament-- but it is definitely more stout (in a good way) than the CTS heaver.
> 
> It's definitely going to be tough for the middle line up for the CCP rod, given up 18" in length to the 5-8 oz CTS (one of my personal favorites, as a light heaver).
> 
> But isn't this getting a bit off track -- I thought the original debate was over sensitivity or bite detection-- an entirely different matter from pure distance.
> 
> It's obviously tough to mechanically measure sensitivity-- it's highly subjective-- but that WAS the subject at hand, was it not ??
> 
> It's kind of funny, a debate over sensitivity is turned into something else altogether.
> 
> I don't have a care one way or the other, so have the contest. It still won't mean diddly about sensitivity, and unless you invite someone from the CTS camp to participate, some might question the results.
> 
> Personally, I liked what I saw in Tommy's new line up of rods, and if I didn't already own more rods than a sane person should, I'd have the heaver version on order already-- it's always great to have new products to try.


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## Mark G

KingKrimpet said:


> That is the question at hand, at least for me, which rod will have the greater ability to feel the nibble,nibble while in my hands. I do not doubt for a minute that both rods( 3-6) will get the job done, I just want to know that when the little bity kingfish bites, I won't miss the hit



Then it really is a matter of you trying both rods for yourself. Sensitivity means different things to different people. A rod that is too stiff won't show a bite when it is spiked, one that is too limber (soft) may not translate into sensitivity either-- it may have more of a mushy feel to it than a thinner, lighter, but slightly stiffer tipped rod.


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## huckfinn38

Mark G said:


> Then it really is a matter of you trying both rods for yourself. Sensitivity means different things to different people. A rod that is too stiff won't show a bite when it is spiked, one that is too limber (soft) may not translate into sensitivity either-- it may have more of a mushy feel to it than a thinner, lighter, but slightly stiffer tipped rod.


BINGO....That is what I was trying to get at.


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## ReelinRod

KingKrimpet said:


> That is the question at hand, at least for me, which rod will have the greater ability to feel the nibble,nibble while in my hands.


I would say to drive a stake 60 yards out, run the line through it and you can hold the rod with one hand and pull/strum the line with the other and feel _precisely_ what pressure/movement it takes to transmit sensation down the rod.

If some Cast Pro product will be at the Marlton tournament this weekend a blind test sure would be interesting!

And Mark, yes, the number of strawmen and red herrings in this thread has made it easier for me to "behave" myself . . .


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## Mark G

> I agree with most of what you said. Mark, are you assuming the stiffer pole will cast further? I haven't casted the CCP rods, but the CTS seems to have more of a C bend which may make the difference.



It really boils down to the caster-- I've become much more accustomed to a parobolic action on a rod, the CTS gets it's type of sensitivity from a thinner, yet stiffish tip section, but that can work against you from a power casting perspective. 

It's tough to have the best of both worlds-- power and extreme sensitivity.

I wished I had taken the opportunity to cast Tommy's heaver. Hopefully I'll get a chance to take a closer look next time around. At this point I'm only making a guess, but it certainly had the feel of distance about it. To reiterate, I'm only talking about the heaver version here, as compared to the CTS 8-12. What I meant when I said the CCP rod was stiffer in a good way, was a more uniform taper along it's length-- not that it would be hard to load ( I didn't get that impression), which until I try it, I can't offer an opinion at this point. Another important aspect (at least to me) is how a rod feels as it unloads, which is another whole subject open to interpretation and debate..


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## ReelinRod

Mark G said:


> Then it really is a matter of you trying both rods for yourself. Sensitivity means different things to different people. A rod that is too stiff won't show a bite when it is spiked, one that is too limber (soft) may not translate into sensitivity either-- it may have more of a mushy feel to it than a thinner, lighter, but slightly stiffer tipped rod.


Hence my offer to part with the old Honey Lami's I have . . . if spiked "bite detection" is the primary concern.


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## huckfinn38

Another neat comparison...Blank Prices

CCP 10 Ft $134.95 CTS SE1160-2 $196 (11.5 1-3 oz)
CCP 12 Ft $179.95 CTS SE1201-2 $262.50 (12 ft 2-4 oz)
CCP 13ft 3-6 oz $204.95 CTS SE1362-2 $266 (13.5 ft 5-8 oz)
CCP 13ft 6-10 oz $279.95 CTS SE1304-2 $375 

Reelinrod Some of these are differnt in size but can you offer what you guys are charging retail for the 10 ft blank?

Thanks


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## Tacpayne

Tacpayne said:


> I also have a 13' 3-6 Cast pro and a CTS 5-8 the Cast pro rod has much better bite detection, I could even feel small blow toads on mine last week. The CTS has a firmer tip and more power, but does not have close the bite detection, They are just 2 different rods with 2 different purposes for me. just my .02


As far as comparison, here is one of my first posts on this subject. I clearly stated that I felt these are 2 different rods, for 2 different purposes. The style of fishing we do down here is different than what is done up north, or down south. The OBX has some unique fishing situations. If I do the string test that Rod mentioned it is still subjective to the person holding the rod. Pure distance is teh only test that I can perform that will lead to a concrete solution. And for the record, Scott Parsons from Fishsticks will be there, and he is a distributor of both rods. I would be fairly sure that he would like to sell both rods, and give his honest opinion on the matter. It wouldnt make any sense for him to knock one or the other, only provide the data we collect.I own several CTS rods, and all of the Cast pro rods available at the moment. I have no intentions of getting rid of either rods at the moment, they both serve their purpose for me. As a custom builder I really dont care less what brand is on the rod, or who is backing it. I have to offer my customers the best rod for their situations. There are a lot of different variables in each persons situation, and the brand of the rod is usually not it, factors like cost, castability, availability, and sensitivity are. This is not a pissing contest and I have Zero at stake in teh results of this. The only thing I can use it for is a casting comparison, the rest is ultimately up to my customers...


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## Tommy

Guys,

After the testing, _please_ start a new thread with the results.

Tommy


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## Kwesi W.

Tommy, will any of your rods be at Marlton?


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## KingKrimpet

kmw21230 said:


> Tommy, will any of your rods be at Marlton?


Good question, I am in Jersey on Sunday and may stop by to have a looksee.


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## Tommy

Kwesi,

I'm working nights and won't be coming to NJ this weekend. Unless someone with a blank is heading up, it doesn't look like the rods will be in Marlton.

Tommy


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## Kwesi W.

That's too bad. It would have been nice if we could have had two castoff's.. Oh well..



Tommy said:


> Kwesi,
> 
> I'm working nights and won't be coming to NJ this weekend. Unless someone with a blank is heading up, it doesn't look like the rods will be in Marlton.
> 
> Tommy


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## Hudak

I would like to do the 60yd sensitivity test for my own personal information, thanks for that suggestion Rod. It would be hard for me to quantify the results of a "feeling" where others can measure. There is enough confusion between the definition of bite detection, visual in a spike or feeling in a hand, I couldn't imagine a fair, clear, and concise way to try to measure a feeling without instruments. 

I will be planning on just doing an overhead thump with a 5500 mag elite bone stock. Since distance is the only result that we will get concrete data from, that will be the easiest to record. This is not designed to give any suggestion as to which rod will fish better, just which ones feel better at given weights during the cast. I would like to cast each weight the individual rods are rated for. If it is a 3-6 rod, I would like to cast each weight and record the distance. If it is 8-12, I would like to cast 8, 10, and 12 with it to see what it will do. Something tells me I will not have someone put a rod in my hand to smash 12oz with though...LOL

We will have 4 different levels of caster in the field. That should create a fair cross section of the fishing community. I don't own either company's rods. This will be interesting to see how this shows. I am in the market for a 4-5oz surf stick right now. This test is liable to determine which way I lean. CTS and CPS are the only two that I am considering.

Robert


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## huckfinn38

*10-12 no way*



thekingfeeder said:


> I would like to do the 60yd sensitivity test for my own personal information, thanks for that suggestion Rod. It would be hard for me to quantify the results of a "feeling" where others can measure. There is enough confusion between the definition of bite detection, visual in a spike or feeling in a hand, I couldn't imagine a fair, clear, and concise way to try to measure a feeling without instruments.
> 
> I will be planning on just doing an overhead thump with a 5500 mag elite bone stock. Since distance is the only result that we will get concrete data from, that will be the easiest to record. This is not designed to give any suggestion as to which rod will fish better, just which ones feel better at given weights during the cast. I would like to cast each weight the individual rods are rated for. If it is a 3-6 rod, I would like to cast each weight and record the distance. If it is 8-12, I would like to cast 8, 10, and 12 with it to see what it will do. Something tells me I will not have someone put a rod in my hand to smash 12oz with though...LOL
> 
> We will have 4 different levels of caster in the field. That should create a fair cross section of the fishing community. I don't own either company's rods. This will be interesting to see how this shows. I am in the market for a 4-5oz surf stick right now. This test is liable to determine which way I lean. CTS and CPS are the only two that I am considering.
> 
> Robert



There is no way I am letting your gorilla butt throw 10-12 oz with my CTS. Too much power you have...


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## biggestsquid

Tommy,

I believe that the 6-10 Cast Pro that you I demoed at ramp 23 was as factory spec? Can you confirm. My buddy is going to order a custom but I think I will go with factory. Also, although not yet available, I'm thinking that you are accepting orders now?

Hope all is well.


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## Tommy

Squid,

If the rod ahd a logo on it and was gloss black then it was the factory rod. If it was flat black, no logo and had a trigger then it was an early prototype heaver that was custom built. I had both with me last fall, but if I remember correctly was mostly demo'ing the factory version.

Factory rods and blanks are in final production now.

Tommy


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## biggestsquid

Tommy,

Rod I threw had a trigger grip. That makes no difference to me so long as it is the same sweet blank. My order is placed for the 13' heaver and I'll be thrilled if it handles like your demo piece.

Cheers,

Biggestsquid


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## Tommy

That would be one of the original sample prototype blanks. Ryan Young built it for me using the trigger seat and a slightly different guide layout. 

Factory rod will perform pretty much the same, just without the trigger.



Tommy


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