# Flame War: Who makes the best 4x4?



## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

What say ye? Who is the king of the sand and why?

opcorn:


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## RickLandRover (Mar 5, 2008)

Land Rover makes the best 4X4 for the sand, I don't care what any wrench head says. Land Rover does not have the reputation is does because they are poor offroad, buy one and you will not be sorry.


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

Jeep!!


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## Jesse Lockowitz (Feb 13, 2006)

Any true 4x4 vehicle is good on the sand if you drive like you have half a brain.....



Jesse


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## HellRhaY (Jul 6, 2007)

land rover is a girly 4x4. it's like buying a harley and painting it pink!

toyota tacoma/tundra. the most traveled 4x4 in the world. you can see them in the deserts of afghanistan, in the jungles of cambodia, in the streets of LA and in the frigid arctic, but i don't own one too girly for me.

i prefer the H1.


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## RickLandRover (Mar 5, 2008)

Hey HellRhay, I think Harleys should all be painted pink, nothing like seeing a tattooed burley man on a cheesy Harley wearing leather that says yes I succeeded in life and have a great education and am a professional with a family, people who ride Harleys should grow up, your not in a gang and it does not look cool. I know I stated a stereotype above but like most stereotypes that is true. As for Land Rovers being girly, just because your too cheap to buy a real four wheel drive and have to settle for a toyota, I don't think you should call a vehicle that has more technology into it's guts than your basic toyota that will rot out in about 3 years and the mechanical parts are made for a kids toy truck. They are two different classes of vehicles and toyota is a dime a dozen, take a Range Rover or a Discovery against your lower class Tacoma/Tundra and put them head to head in the sand, you will need a shovel, jack, toe rope and a tow truck for the toyota and the Landy will beep as he drives by, not too bad for a girly truck. I know this since I yanked a newer model Tundra out of IBSP, he was stuck in a section my 5 year old nephew could have driven his power wheels through, again not too bad for a girly truck.


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## lil red jeep (Aug 17, 2007)

Duh! Jeep


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## Woodchuck (Jan 5, 2005)

I’m in the it’s the driver not the vehicle camp on this one. Just about any vehicle would ride the sand with a knowledgeable brain behind the wheel. Remember, back in the day sedans and station wagons ruled the beaches. Just get the biggest, baldest tires you could fit on the rims and you’re good-to-go.

I’ve had Ford (’78, 150), Chevy (’82, K20), Dodge (’75, 100), Willies (think it was a MJ2A), Kaiser (’67, Commando), AMC (’79, CJ7) and now a Chrysler (’94, XJ). Only auto transmission was the Commando, all others had manual. Any of them (except the POS Ford) would have been fine in any kind of sand. The Ford had some limited slip or traction control crap that really sucked. You could have one front and one back tire on dry ground and the others in mud, guess which ones would spin?

Best overall was the Chevy. That old whore would haul her own weight anywhere and did for 225,000 miles before I gave it to my brother in law. Had plain old Dunlop D60 tires and that thing went in and out of more places than I care to remember. Never even came close to getting stuck and there were plenty of late night ‘clamming trips’ on mud flats where alcohol was involved that very well could have turned out much different than they did. Note: always carry a tide chart and watch.

Most luxurious was the Commando. Pull the top off and you were styling in automatic pleasure. Great little mudder but never had it in the sand. Clearance was a big issue, very low to the ground as I remember.

Most fun, the MJ of course! That beat-up little bugger was the most fun toy I think I ever had. Would have done great in the sand with some wider tires but not too much storage room. There was only enough storage room for the tools and spare parts you would need while driving it anywhere. Getting stuck was never an issue, two guys could pick it up and move it if needed. Great little 4-wheeler.

Now for the actual answer to the post…. The best for surf fishing… is… the XJ! Mine is highly modified as a one seater (plus a spot for the dog) surf fishing vehicle but even stock, it did great. Rides over the sand, plenty of power using the right gear and more than enough room for one person’s gear for a couple day outing and room to sleep in it as well.

I know, I know… You Hummer, Range/Land Rover and FJ Cruiser (doesn’t FJ stand for Fake Jeep?) guys frown upon us lowly XJ drivers and tell us to get a real 4x4. Hey, we don’t need luxury or a girly ride. We are after something that will get us there AND back again… Ok, with maybe one stop to fix something but it’s easy to work on and JB weld, duct tape and bailing wire is all we need to get it going again!
opcorn:


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## HellRhaY (Jul 6, 2007)

i didn't get a land rover because it is girly and cheesy, but the best reason i can give you is, i can't buy the darn thing i cash. on my previous post i said, i don't own a tacoma or tundra but i would love to own one. my 4x4 is a honda pilot which my wife and i paid in cash and a toyota corolla which we paid in cash also. i am not cheap, if you see my house or my gear, you'll say we are not cheap. we just can't afford a land rover inc ash, and i hate to finance. my only loan i'm making a payment on is our house.

hell, if i wnat to own a land rover and i'd take a financing with a 740 credit score i can get it tomorrow. but too girly for me.


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## HellRhaY (Jul 6, 2007)

now, if they offer this for sale, even at 100k i'll take a 6.9% APR financing complete with the guns and turrets so i can shoot every girly driver driving 30mph on 50mph street.


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## saltandsand (Nov 29, 2007)

Land Rovers are girlie rides, made for the wimps and the weak. Yeah man, get a Rover with pimped out rims and squat tires, a 50,000 watt boom box, and television... and to think our government handed out tax credits to those who bought these gas guzzling pieces of trash.

IMO...Nissan rules.


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

*go buy another Toyota*

and pay to have more of our beaches closed ..... 

NOT ME ...... I've had my Ford Rangers everywhere ... more experence with snow than sand though ... but I've had it push snow up on the hood and it still went with no problem ......


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvKeOVsRSSU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgn6ioiOW-8

try that to your Rover..


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## HellRhaY (Jul 6, 2007)

CrawFish said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvKeOVsRSSU
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgn6ioiOW-8
> 
> try that to your Rover..


lol, a rover's too sissy to try even half of it. i'm telling you, it's a girly mans 4x4.


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## chris storrs (Aug 25, 2005)

on the beach...anything...even a rover can make it..

now in the woods....ive NEVER seen a land rover..if they were "the best" youd see em all over.....
what you do see all over is:

tacos
jeeps(cherokees and wranglers)
f150s...older ones mostly
broncos
blazers
some s10s and k1500s
even a ram or two
etc

i like jeeps...but thats me...shamefully been pulled outta muck by a few 4 cyl tacos....among other vehicles

wrangler rubicon comes stock with everything but a lift and tires more or less..lockers, dana 44s,4.10 gears..4:1 1st gear in tranny..4:1 low in t case.....dunno bout the new 6 speeds or 3.7/3,8 whatver they are v6s but the 4.0s straight 6 are hard to beat plenny power and just last...plan to get one in near future


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## Jesse Lockowitz (Feb 13, 2006)

Jesse Lockowitz said:


> Any true 4x4 vehicle is good on the sand if you drive like you have half a brain.....
> 
> 
> 
> Jesse


man who said that? Genius i say!


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## b3butner (Oct 1, 2003)

Best 4x4? What ever your best fishing buddy has.


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## vripley (May 25, 2007)

Unimog


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## Entropy (Mar 9, 2008)

Jesse Lockowitz said:


> Any true 4x4 vehicle is good on the sand if you drive like you have half a brain.....
> 
> 
> 
> Jesse


QFT, because of the simple fact of so many different yet capable vehicles, its purely oppinion IMO.


me personally, im a jeep guy. wranglers are cool, but ill stick with my XJ (cherokee). cherokee has many parts available including but not limited to lifts, bumpers, exterior and interior accesories, racks, engine components, and so on... but i like the ability to keep my inside away from the outside, no soft top for me. and ive never been a fan of indipendent suspensions, so most toyotas are out of the question. not enough suspension travel for me. full size trucks are bad ass, but too cumbersome in tight trails.

long story short, after looking around my jeep does what i want it to. and thats really all that matters. for me though, my car still has to get me to class in the AM, so thats a big deal for me. college... 

i will say to you wrangler guys, the cherokee has better breakover angles than the wrangler.


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## SkunkApe (Dec 9, 2006)

I prefer the Toyota Tundra..great in the sand, even hot sand..(I have one ). You guys are right that any 4x4 can make the sand ride, but who wants a broke d#ck dog engine after 50k. Toyota won't do that. JMHO..

Skunk


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

*Toyota/Audobon Society*

I wouldn't be bragging about Toyota after they gave all that money to the Audobon Society to help close all of OUR beaches


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## SkunkApe (Dec 9, 2006)

surfchunker said:


> I wouldn't be bragging about Toyota after they gave all that money to the Audobon Society to help close all of OUR beaches


Come on now...that's like blaming a butterfly's flutter of it's wings for a Cat 5 Hurricane. You may be right that they gave 'em $$$, but I doubt that the Yota' folks knew anything about impending beach closures. 

Skunk


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

*The Enemy*

well either way I'm NOT going to support the enemy .... thoughts like those is what causes us to loose our resourses ..... your beach might be next ....... If we support the companies that support the enemy we are just as bad


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

RickLandRover said:


> Hey HellRhay, I think Harleys should all be painted pink, nothing like seeing a tattooed burley man on a cheesy Harley wearing leather that says yes I succeeded in life and have a great education and am a professional with a family, people who ride Harleys should grow up, your not in a gang and it does not look cool. I know I stated a stereotype above but like most stereotypes that is true. As for Land Rovers being girly, just because your too cheap to buy a real four wheel drive and have to settle for a toyota, I don't think you should call a vehicle that has more technology into it's guts than your basic toyota that will rot out in about 3 years and the mechanical parts are made for a kids toy truck. They are two different classes of vehicles and toyota is a dime a dozen, take a Range Rover or a Discovery against your lower class Tacoma/Tundra and put them head to head in the sand, you will need a shovel, jack, toe rope and a tow truck for the toyota and the Landy will beep as he drives by, not too bad for a girly truck. I know this since I yanked a newer model Tundra out of IBSP, he was stuck in a section my 5 year old nephew could have driven his power wheels through, again not too bad for a girly truck.


I have a friend you need to meet...that was wrong...jeep is great, rover is great, the one that gets you there is the best...is this a pissing contest or a question?...


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## philmays (Feb 5, 2007)

I'm in the whatever, and how you drive it.

I've owned an International Scout II, Bronco II, Explorer, 4 Expeditions, and a Dodge Ram 2500.

I've been stuck once in the sand and that was trying to pull out an idiot. I've pulled out more small whell base SUV's with low ground clearance like, a Range Rover, many Explorers, and several Suburbans. 

Never have I pulled out the Toyoto's, dodge, or Jeep.

It really comes down to how you drive...IE: pick your spot carefully.


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## baitfish13 (May 14, 2008)

JEEP wrote the book on four wheel drive!!!!!


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## baitfish13 (May 14, 2008)

Entropy said:


> QFT, because of the simple fact of so many different yet capable vehicles, its purely oppinion IMO.
> 
> 
> me personally, im a jeep guy. wranglers are cool, but ill stick with my XJ (cherokee). cherokee has many parts available including but not limited to lifts, bumpers, exterior and interior accesories, racks, engine components, and so on... but i like the ability to keep my inside away from the outside, no soft top for me. and ive never been a fan of indipendent suspensions, so most toyotas are out of the question. not enough suspension travel for me. full size trucks are bad ass, but too cumbersome in tight trails.
> ...


agreed.... Im a fsj (full size jeep) owner 81 wagoneer to be exact,tonz of room for gear and protected from the elements!!!!!


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## new2salt (Dec 28, 2000)

If your really serious about not getting stuck and need room for storing those looooonng rods, then you might want to check into one of those machines they use to spray the crop fields with around here where I live. Floatation tires that are at least 3' wide and 5' tall and a boom on each side to hang all your rods from. 

After you get to your favorite hole crank the wheel 90 degrees to the waterline, open the booms out, set you rods up in the holders that you mounted on the booms, and sit back in the A/C cab and listen to the tunes. When you get a bite just move the boom to set the hook.  The added height advantage should make it easier to spot fish too. 

I know they're not 4 wheeldrive, because they only have 3 wheels, but with that kind of tire who needs it.  Their fuel mileage is probably comparable to the Landrovers. :redface:

I have owned GMCs, Dodges, Jeeps, and Nissans. They all have good qualities and bad, but the bottom line is the driver and proper tire pressure. The GMCs and Dodges would pull pretty much anything I put behind them, but at 10mpg. The Jeeps and Nissans don't have the ass for heavy pulling , but then again 20+mpg. :fishing:


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## aardvarkgraphix (Sep 30, 2005)

*Land Rover ..............*

It is a HIGH priced FORD Explorer....... Owned by FORD>>>>>>>>>>> Look at the new exporers and then the NEW Land Rover, you WILL see the resemblance.
Save your money and buy the Ford if that is what you want. I own F250 Super 4X4, Have had GMC, Chevy, Dodge and good service had by all. Buy what you like, dress it the way you want and drive like you should and no problems will be had. Just my TWO CENTS.


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## chest2head&glassy (Jul 2, 2002)

surfchunker said:


> I wouldn't be bragging about Toyota after they gave all that money to the Audobon Society to help close all of OUR beaches


Hate to be the bearer of bad news but back in 2001, Ford donated $5mil to the National Audubon Society. Had die-hard Ford owners buying Chevy trucks, especially in the logging industry of the northwest.


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## Sandcrab (Mar 20, 2002)

*I've only had one...*

My Chevy Silverado - floats on the sand, tows mucho stuff in the bed, and takes care of me...

Did I mention it's a hybrid too?

Sandcrab


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## ledweightII (Apr 4, 2008)

where you buying hybrid gas?


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## totallybeachin (May 31, 2008)

I'll just have to stick to my '03 suburban, I would much rather have my 87 4runner back or any other toy....but with wife 3 kids, bikes, 4 dogs and bicycles, & gear who am I kidding?
Did I mention it runs on corn, too bad we don't have an ethanol station here?
Maybe for the best.
See you in the sand.


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## Sandcrab (Mar 20, 2002)

ledweightII said:


> where you buying hybrid gas?


Premium gas - it get's 24 MPG... 

Sandcrab


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## dmaaero (Jan 27, 2008)

SkunkApe said:


> I prefer the Toyota Tundra..great in the sand, even hot sand..(I have one ). You guys are right that any 4x4 can make the sand ride, but who wants a broke d#ck dog engine after 50k. Toyota won't do that. JMHO..
> 
> Skunk


You know about the toyota buy back? Seems that some models 95-03 (not postive which years) have bad frames, you gota take it to toyota an have it checked, if yours has the bad frame, toyota will buy it back for 1 and 1/2 times what nada price is. That ought to cut into there audobon donation next year!!!! Funny part is they will not contact you, you have to find out on your own an contact them !!!!


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## SkunkApe (Dec 9, 2006)

dmaaero said:


> You know about the toyota buy back? Seems that some models 95-03 (not postive which years) have bad frames, you gota take it to toyota an have it checked, if yours has the bad frame, toyota will buy it back for 1 and 1/2 times what nada price is. That ought to cut into there audobon donation next year!!!! Funny part is they will not contact you, you have to find out on your own an contact them !!!!


Thanks for the info, but mines an '05. I still swear by them, no matter what!! 

Skunk


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## bctom (May 25, 2007)

the toyota rusted frame issue was on the tacoma line, I have been driving toyotas since 1979, presently have a 2006 4runner, with 154k on the odo, I would not sell it now for what I paid for it in 06. quality and reliability are important to me and the 4 runner is still built in Japan, tells me something that is lacking in american built manufacturers, but I think they have seen the far eastern light and trying to change their ways. Look at what the UN uses overseas, more LC's are used than others.
I would buy a truck made here if their track record were better than what I've got but I don't think that will happen in my lifetime.


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## mdram (Jul 18, 2005)

bctom said:


> the toyota rusted frame issue was on the tacoma line, I have been driving toyotas since 1979, presently have a 2006 4runner, with 154k on the odo, I would not sell it now for what I paid for it in 06. quality and reliability are important to me and the 4 runner is still built in Japan, tells me something that is lacking in american built manufacturers, but I think they have seen the far eastern light and trying to change their ways. Look at what the UN uses overseas, more LC's are used than others.
> I would buy a truck made here if their track record were better than what I've got but I don't think that will happen in my lifetime.



but the fj had its own issues, if you consider ripping body panels an issue

http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/problems-dealer-service/33440-engine-bay-body-rips.html


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## bctom (May 25, 2007)

Do your homework, every FJ cruiser, tacoma, and tundra with a body issue 90% was due to abuse, and not a manufacturing defect.
Have an FJ-40 I have had since 1973, other than normal wear over 435k on the original inline 6, you can bash em all you want but if I purchased another vehicle, tomorrow it would be another 4-runner, where I am going to work for 2 years in august is a site outside Alice Springs Au. The real outback, nothing but toyota vehicles on the site because they will get you there and most important GET YOU BACK.


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

get over the toyota thing...theyve all given to the dark side. if your going to b*tch about it, atleast do it about something right.

That being said, anybody that knows me knows how well i maintain things....or lack thereof:rollleyes: and they know ill generally try to drive to or thru sumthing once.....that being said ive never been stuck in rock, sand, mud, or anything in my Tacoma and never had to do anything but change the oil in it and put gas in it.


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## SkunkApe (Dec 9, 2006)

Hey, what trucks to you normally see on the battle fields driven by the enemy....Toyota. The enemy sucks, but their vehicle's don't  

Skunk


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## Justfshn (Nov 22, 2007)

*jeep of course*


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## incucrash (May 7, 2008)

Honda Civic!! -=]


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