# Casting Methods



## 15917 (Aug 22, 2005)

After reviewing many articles/ video’s and commentaries on different casting methods I am in confusion as to why the majority of people I see on the surf use a Hatteras Cast. I’ve yet to attend a casting tournament or a clinic but from what I’ve seen on the surf. 

Pendulum casts, from my own witness always outcasted a Hatteras cast. Always. My question is why is the pendulum cast so underrated compared to other cast? And Who ACTUALLY uses this cast on a regular basis?

Every time I ask people who’ve been on the surf for quite some time. I get answers like “ Aww That cast is way too dangerous” or “ they only use that cast for tournaments” even “ I like to see you perform that cast on the OBX without someone saying something to you.”


Roll call for your perferred casting method and why?


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## Lipyourown (May 11, 2005)

Perhaps it is hard to master that cast and you need alot of room to do it so in a crowd it wouldn't be wise to attempt like at Cape Point.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*as LIP said*

Pendulum simply takes too much room.

If you have it mastered and find yourself in the position of having the beach to yourself, have at it. I use a variation of the OTG (off the ground) cast which also requires some room to work.

The pendulum is dangerous because it puts a lot of stress on the shock and you are swinging the weight around in a semicircle. If a break off occurs-and they do- the lead can go flying in any direction. 

While I don't use it myself I understand the popularity of the hatteras cast. It has a compact swing arc, allowing it to be used in close quarters to others without endangering anyone, unless they are directly behind the caster. It allows for reasonable distance with minimal danger. 

I have had break offs occur during casts (OTG) where the breakoff occurs as your swinging the rod around. Instead of the weight heading out to sea, it can break off at 90 degrees to your intended cast, making everyone thats parallel to you on the beach a possible target. Not a way to make friends!!!


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

coke bottle and hand slinging!!!


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

CrawFish said:


> coke bottle and hand slinging!!!


Hmm, I'd like to see you reel one of those fish you caught lastweekend in on that coke bottle


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## 15917 (Aug 22, 2005)

Surf Cat said:


> Pendulum simply takes too much room.
> 
> The pendulum is dangerous because it puts a lot of stress on the shock and you are swinging the weight around in a semicircle. If a break off occurs-and they do- the lead can go flying in any direction.
> 
> While I don't use it myself I understand the popularity of the hatteras cast. It has a compact swing arc, allowing it to be used in close quarters to others without endangering anyone, unless they are directly behind the caster. It allows for reasonable distance with minimal danger.


Understood. The pendulum takes up too much room and I've heard stories off break offs. The result being a busted grill and a hole through someone’s radiator. But people act as if a break off happens 7/10 times. 

I got to witness Tres from Hatteras outfitters perform pendulum casts and he must've casted well over 10 times. Each time in very close quarters with no break offs. He outcasted everyone beside him by a great margin and was the only one landing Striper. Definitely made you rethink your procedure. That day with Tres distance was the determining factor.

I don't use this cast myself but seeing it's results makes me more curious as to who actually uses it.


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

Malakas07 Take a look at the casting section on the link below. Watch the casts then let us know what Tres was using. I believe Tres would have been using the Hatteras Cast in a tight situation.

http://www.hatterasoutfitters.com/links.htm

The space is the big problem and why most use the Hatteras Cast.


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## 15917 (Aug 22, 2005)

Digger said:


> I believe Tres would have been using the Hatteras Cast in a tight situation.


Defitnitely a pendulum cast. 

Quite beautiful. Never seen bait slung that far( even helicopetering.)


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## Don B (Jul 28, 2001)

"And Who ACTUALLY uses this cast on a regular basis?"

Well, that would be me.

First, there are several variations of the pendulum cast. For fishing, I use what is sometimes called the fishing pendulum. It is a less severe type of cast. If you are casting to 12 o'clock, you would face 3 and your back swing would be to 6. I would guess that this cast generates about 80% of the distance of a tournament cast. If you master the pendulum cast you will be very comfortable with your fishing rods and adapt other styles as needed.

Is it dangerous?

Anything done in an aggressive manner can become dangerous.

You must ensure your terminal tackle is made properly and replaced if there is any indication or thought that it may be damaged. Every time I go to the park, I inspect my shock leader and re-tie my knots. I would suspect that most people build new terminal tackle when they go fishing.

The other weak link is the caster. The cast is supposed to start fairly slow and finish with a strong punch-pull. I have attended 3 tournaments. There were break offs at all of the tournaments. However, they were all down field.

So, proper technique and equipment are essential to safer long distance fishing.

It takes more room?

This depends what style you are using and what you are comparing it with. Some casters use a very short leader drop. Other OTG casters may use up to a 15 foot drop and have their lead initially pointing in the direction of the cast. The rod will travel through 270 degrees of rotation. I believe we can make the generalization that more aggressive casting requires more room.

Hope this helps,
Don


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

If you are going to use ANY power casting technique around other fishermen or casters then you have to keep safety in mind. Fresh shock leader of adequate strength and good knots are a must. 

The fishing pendulum is pretty safe but must be respected. Not a cast to try at Cape Point during a drum run...  You need a safety zone to the right (assuming right hand caster) of the caster. If a breakoff occurs on the powerstroke the it can go straight down the beach and anyone in that zone would be at risk. 

The off ground cast is a great cast too. It will place baits a looong way out, almost as far as the pendulum. It must also be treated with respect. I have had a rig break-off and go straight down the beach, luckily no one was in the safe zone. I use the ground cast for probably 75% of heavier (6-8nbait) surf fishing casts. 

The Hatteras cast has it's place. It was pretty much developed for casting 8nbait in crowded conditions like Cape Point. In the right hands it will deliver a bait way out there and is fairly safe, but still a powercast. Some guys hit it almost completely sidearm. If a breakoff occurs, it's going down the beach......

Learn them all. Consider each a weapon in your arsenal. Once you have the casts down pat, you can pick and choose depending on the conditions and crowd.

Tommy


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## 15917 (Aug 22, 2005)

Don B said:


> there are several variations of the pendulum cast.
> Hope this helps,
> Don



Thanks man. I've always thought there could be variations to the pendulum but I've yet to find a detailed article on it. If I see you on the surf get ready to be bombarded with an array of questions.




Tommy said:


> Some guys hit it almost completely sidearm. If a breakoff occurs, it's going down the beach......
> 
> Learn them all. Consider each a weapon in your arsenal. Once you have the casts down pat, you can pick and choose depending on the conditions and crowd.
> 
> Tommy


I know what you mean. Being around those side arm guys is pretty scary. When they cast there is always a moment of silence in their back swing.

I will learn them all. After all this is our hobby, our time well spent; therefore we should saturate ourselves with every aspect of it.




Is there anyone else that would like to input on there casting method? Anyone else who uses a pendulum on a regular basis?


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## Connman (Apr 14, 2001)

As another pendulum tournament caster , I rarely if ever use it fishing , 95% of my casting gets covered by a aerilaized unitech cast , there are angular variations in it too that allow you to cast directly over the top like for Hatteras or more side arm for open beachs . It will put 8oz out a very long way , my only ever field cast with 8oz plain weight was 640'+ using this cast .


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## Led (Feb 1, 2001)

Any 'Power' casting method used in a fishing situation needs to be safe for those around you. 

Being a 'Tournament' caster gives you a little more credance on the safety front nothing more - even the best will crack off from time to time.

Very rarely do I use the pendulum cast whilst fishing, I opt to use the 'Brighton' style instead. There is ZERO chance of the sinker going along the beach (unlike OTG or Pendulum) and if done correctly will send your bait more than far enough.

Here is a video http://www.led.chukka.btinternet.co.uk/bcvisual1.wmv (2.5Mb) showing how I do it which may differ to a few others - it works for me and will place 6oz +bait around 600'.


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## 15917 (Aug 22, 2005)

Connman said:


> As another pendulum tournament caster , I rarely if ever use it fishing , 95% of my casting gets covered by a aerilaized unitech cast , there are angular variations in it too that allow you to cast directly over the top like for Hatteras or more side arm for open beachs . It will put 8oz out a very long way , my only ever field cast with 8oz plain weight was 640'+ using this cast .


Wow. An Aerial Uni-tech. What are the advantages of an aerial uni-tech oppose to a traditional uni- tech?


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## 15917 (Aug 22, 2005)

Led said:


> Very rarely do I use the pendulum cast whilst fishing, I opt to use the 'Brighton' style instead.
> 
> it works for me and will place 6oz +bait around 600'.


Nice similar to a Uni-tech.

Why do you rarely perform a pendulum? 


Looks like the Brighton/ Uni-tech has deep roots.


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## markedwards (Jan 29, 2001)

here's something to consider.

a few years ago i was fishing with 2 other tournmament casters and heard this story.

noone and noboby were fishing assetegue one fall morning. then another guy pulls in about 300 yds from them to fish. nobody normally fishes with 100+ leaders so he decides to uncork one. on the resulting cast there's a loud snap. the guy down the beach goes down a few seconds later. the guy gets up after a few seconds and packs his stuff up and drives off. he stops at these two guys and warns them he was hit in the arse by an errant round and that he wasn't staying anymore. the cast that nobody hit was a pendulum. imagine if that guy wasn't 30 yds away?


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

pendlum with more than 4' of line is spooky...saw a guy that uses 8-10' and that bait is 2" from his ear when he lets fly...


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

Can somebody show some links that show the pendelum...I use a pendelum or so I think like cast and it seems to be a relatively straight, inline with which way im casting kind of cast...the times I have snapped a leader went directly behind me or in the direction of the cast?....Also what is the hatteras cast...the cast that you have a foot or two of line out....swing back once during the cast and it lets like 5 ft or so out then come on across with the forward stroke of the cast? Ive seen links on I think Tres' site but they really havent helped much. Thanks


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## barty b (Dec 31, 2004)

*Not a fishing cast*

I've been using this one on the field latley
http://myfishcasting.org/video/DS238_175g.wmv 
It is a version of the pendulum only a lower swing, works better for me than the "high style"
pendulum


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## Samurai (Nov 24, 2005)

*casting*

http://breakawayusa.com/howto.htm Treed,try looking at this and click on the Pendulum Cast. The Hatteras Cast is shown on the HO site.
I fish a few spots which I would consider crowded (30-40 rods on the point on a good night) and the majority use a cast very simular to the Hatteras. We allways warn everyone before casting and never have anybody to the right of you (right handed caster).IMO the Hatteras is a safe cast.I've seen more accidents due to the lack of experience of the caster and bad equiptment/gear than the style of cast.


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

I aint no expert caster by no means but I am a expert when it comes to safety and do remember guys screaming duck one night on the end of a pier when some ol boy decided to do a pendulum cast. If your on a beach and aint no one around for a ways then have at it till your heart is content but remember a break off will fly further than a cast still attached to the line and spool and I am sure no one wants to see another person struck by a flying 8 oz weight. That much lead flying down the beach can kill an adult let alone a small child and for that reason I am always careful even doing an off the ground cast. We are all here for fun so remember the safety of others first.


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## Don B (Jul 28, 2001)

Connman said:


> As another pendulum tournament caster , I rarely if ever use it fishing , 95% of my casting gets covered by a aerilaized unitech cast


Hi Connman,

I got my first surf casting rig in 1981. After trying to cast it and having several back lashes, I ordered John Holden's book and would spend Saturday mornings implementing pendulum casting techniques to Ulua equipment. Hence, about 90% of my fishing is done with a pendulum cast. Our typical fishing areas have lots of rocks and coral and very few beach goers. Having visited Florida and Texas, I can understand a reluctance to use a pendulum cast.

Don


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## Don B (Jul 28, 2001)

Led said:


> Any 'Power' casting method used in a fishing situation needs to be safe for those around you.
> 
> - even the best will crack off from time to time.


Not being the best or even very good, this statement about cracking off reminds me of two break offs I had. Once with a 6 ounce sinker and once with an 8 ounce sinker. I was casting a Penn wide 4/0 and the break offs went straight out to sea. What happened is that the leads were bank sinkers and they broke apart. Inspection revealed what appeared to be a fracture in the lead about 1/3 the way down from the eye. The person making the sinkers had probably hesitated during the pour.

After these two experiences, I will never use a bank sinker in the field and I am very cautious when using one when fishing.

Don


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## big brother (May 15, 2002)

hey treed,
the sportcast usa, SE Regional is april 1-2, around wilmington, nc, if you want to see the pendulem, that is the place to go. for the rest of the schedule check here.
http://www.longdistancecasting.forumflash.com/index.php?act=announce&f=4&id=10
charlie


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

Thanks guys...the pendulum on one of the sites I can understand being dangerous...which I assume is the same one youre talking about...The 'pendulum' cast I use (only because I havent been taught the others) stays...if ur casting to 12:00...in the 6:00 to 12:00 arc...not side ways like the ones on the video.....This being said I dont know how its anymore dangerous than any of the others...especially anybody to the sides of me.....I do understand how the pendulum on the video could cause serious damage....I just wasnt quite sure what the pendulum type cast yalll were talkin about. Thanks for the links guys


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

ok after looking at breakaways site....the casting style i use is VERY VERY similar to swinging unitech cast. I just dont start my 'casting' swing with the weight/rig in towards me that far


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

Just to help me understand at times  *lord knows I need it* the one type of cast goes in more of a circle around to the side *horizonal plane* and that is the one that is most dangerous as it generates more speed and thus break offs. The one type of cast most everyone uses from the beach is from straight to almost straight from behind them no matter if it is swinging back and forth to off the ground to throwing it straight out towards the water. 
I didn't apply names to any of these casting types because I have heard both the swing around in a circle and a swing back and forth behind you as a Pendulum casting style.


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

my cast doesnt slice through horizontal planes....just vertical...look at the breakaway uni-tech cast video clip...the swinging unitech is almost to a T what I was refering to as a pendelum. back and forth from 12 to 6 behind me...when it feels right the weight is swinging towards 12 (forward) ...then put my arse into it and thus creating an arc from 6-12....almost exactly what is shown on the video...no movement of the rig outside of the 12:00-6:00 line


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## Samurai (Nov 24, 2005)

*Style*

Yeah I've heard the cast demonstrated on the Breakaway site by Nick as the Tournament Pendulum.Some that I've fished with called The Hatteras Cast demonstrated by Tres on the HO site the Pendulum.---Since Jerry Valentine and Roger Mortimore came to Hawaii and demonstrated the Pendulum cast,most have stopped calling our style of cast that.I'm assuming the cast that most are reffering to as dangerous is the one demoed on the breakaway site.That cast generate an extreme amount of load and the lead basically travel in a 360 degree arc.---My style is allmost exactly like the Hatteras.My back swing goes to about 7-8 o'clock and when the lead is at its furthest point,the forward cast is started.I come over my right shoulder between 3/4 arm and straight over.I find it very difficult to generate enough power coming straight over hand.I'm allways open to giving differant methods a try as I'm one that believes that having more distance is allways better.If the fish is in close,you can allways hold back.If you can't reach the zone than...


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## Don B (Jul 28, 2001)

Hi Samurai,

You are very correct in that most of the people in Hawaii who say they are pendulum casters are really doing what has been referred to in the early 80's as "swing casting". A lot of folks will rock their sinker back and forth and feel that this constitutes a pendulum cast. I really do not know what the dividing point is between a swing cast and a pendulum cast. 

I guess the one issue we have that limits us is the break line. Whatever the casting style, it must be smooth.

I hope you enjoyed the workshops. You are the first person to correctly spell Roger's last name. I'm looking forward to sponsoring a seminar in 06 with a world known champion. 

If you're ever at the Kaneohe Marine base and see a silver Ford Escape with Makoi on the rear windows, give a shout.

Don


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## Samurai (Nov 24, 2005)

Howzit Don, IMO it doesn't really matter what anybody calls the cast. The main objective is the ability to use it effectively and safely.I think knowing the names of each helps in a forum as this so we all can understand what style one is refering to.I do not consider myself being a "long caster" as I do not compete.I feel I can cast a decent distance but am humble enough to know I could do better.---I do have access to "the base" and will definitely give you a shout if I see you,especially to try out those sweet blanks. BTW Roger's name must have been lucky.I've been called many things in my time and intelligent was never one. Hanapa'a (hook up)!!


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

TreednNC said:


> my cast doesnt slice through horizontal planes....just vertical...look at the breakaway uni-tech cast video clip...the swinging unitech is almost to a T what I was refering to as a pendelum. back and forth from 12 to 6 behind me...when it feels right the weight is swinging towards 12 (forward) ...then put my arse into it and thus creating an arc from 6-12....almost exactly what is shown on the video...no movement of the rig outside of the 12:00-6:00 line


IF i had to guess, Treed I'd describe your cast as more of an aeralized unitech than a pendulum, but with so many variations of different casts it's sometimes difficult for a variation to fall in one Specific category.


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## Led (Feb 1, 2001)

Malakas07,

There are very few times when I need more than 600' with bait - the brighton cast will do just that.

Yes, the trebuchet and the 'brighton cast' are very similar and should not be overlooked.

I hope that this has helped.

Led.


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

Malakas07 said:


> Defitnitely a pendulum cast.
> 
> Quite beautiful. Never seen bait slung that far( even helicopetering.)



dood, keep in mind tres isnt your average fauker on the beach either man. he is one of the best casters i've been lucky enough to see, it aint the cast, its the man. 

for most people, myself included even though we can cast plenty far(genereally) most of our casts are flawed, i think it would be a better idea to perfect our current casting styles rather than just jump to another. look at guys like lum who are our size and can hang any day of the week with tourney guys, and with a piece of bait usually cast farther. like i said tho ant, tres and them are AWESOME casters and fisherman. he has been doing it along time and i would feel much better with him doing it next to me on the beach than some guy who saw it done on the internet and decides to do it next to me with 10oz and no shock(had several people last weekend not use shock and it was scary!)

anyway we'll all get up sometime and you can take some stuff from what we do. al couldnt cast to save his life so rule number one in casting, dont listen to BL COMMANDO. Teo has a cast similiar to lum and jams, and i have a slight variation i do on that... you kno what i mean? anyway hope this was somewhat helpfull info.

neil


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## 15917 (Aug 22, 2005)

NTKG said:


> dood, keep in mind tres isnt your average fauker on the beach either man. he is one of the best casters i've been lucky enough to see, it aint the cast, its the man.


True. Those guys know every step of their technique right down to every last detail. I myself want to find my own technique and know every step to the T. The pendulum looks to be the cast that acquires the most distance.




NTKG said:


> anyway we'll all get up sometime and you can take some stuff from what we do. al couldnt cast to save his life so rule number one in casting, dont listen to BL COMMANDO.



LMAO. Oh no! There’s about to be a showdown on the casting field. I’m going to make a flyer. 











NTKG said:


> Teo has a cast similiar to lum and jams, and i have a slight variation i do on that... you kno what i mean? anyway hope this was somewhat helpfull info.


Teo’s cast is completely sidearm. To tell you the truth its pretty much bits and pieces of a pendulum. Definitely will have to get together and start perfecting. We need to start recording and break the video’s down frame by frame.


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

Malakas....you've got waaaaay tooooo much time on yer hands...........but in due time ....we'll be on the field during the winter weekends...so we'll see how much money or shoe will fit yer yappers. 


NTKG is jus jealous cause I can cast farther with a Beer buzz than he does sober 
BTW on a serious note...castin with the A/C has deffinitely helped increase my distance....we do push each other.

who needs a Breakaway??...when you can buy my new line of custom rods..the B/L-away....


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

im sorry i cant read any of your damn posts all i can see are ass cheeks


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

learn to cast a fly rod and your "big rod " casting will improve...it will teach you smooth and feel...jmho


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## Don B (Jul 28, 2001)

Samurai said:


> I do have access to "the base" and will definitely give you a shout if I see you,especially to try out those sweet blanks.


You're on! I would expect the delivery of the 8-10 ounce prototype in about 3 to 4 weeks. Give me an additional week to build it and it's time for testing. Casting weights will be 9,10 and 11 ounces. The reels will be Newell 646 and Penn 114 HLW with 80# line. I don't have the ability to put much power into casting 11 ounces and need someone with a little (ok, a lot of) power. Under any scenario the out come is positive. If it works well, then it's production time. If it breaks, it will be evaluated and re-designed to build a better rod.

Are you up for it?

Don


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## Samurai (Nov 24, 2005)

I definitely wouldn't be your man if we're talking 11 with a 646.I usually trow JA plus 5s and a bunch of Big Catches with 9-10. I can definitely arange some big boys to road test if you're serious though.---I'm sure this sounds all foreign to you east coast guys.Sorry.


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## Connman (Apr 14, 2001)

No we know Jeff Andrews and kona style fishing well and Brett and Brock Lee .


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## narfpoit (Jun 16, 2004)

Foreign but very exciting. Wish I could be there to see all of that take place. Plus being on the Ilsand wouldnt hurt either.


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## Don B (Jul 28, 2001)

Samurai said:


> I can definitely arange some big boys to road test if you're serious though.---


Hi Samurai,

I'm very serious. I do not have the power to put a larger rod through its paces and could really use some help. I do know a couple of powerful casters, but would like to get a more general consensus of any needed improvements. I'll send you a PM.

Mahalo,
Don


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## Don B (Jul 28, 2001)

Connman said:


> No we know Jeff Andrews and kona style fishing well and Brett and Brock Lee .


Hi Connman,

I did meet Brett at a Hawaii tournament several years ago. As far as Jeff goes, he has kind of dropped off the RADAR scope. A rumor is that he is making fly rods.

Brock and I practice together at the Marine base every other Sunday. Brock is doing mag conversions, builds end plates, frames, and does anodizing work. He recently purchased an addition to his milling (?) machine that enables him to work on curved surfaces (etching fish, names, etc). Brock intends to join me this year at the Jerry V Invitational and SFCCI tournaments.

WHAT A SMALL WORLD!

Don


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## Don B (Jul 28, 2001)

narfpoit said:


> Foreign but very exciting. Wish I could be there to see all of that take place. Plus being on the Ilsand wouldnt hurt either.


Hi narfpoit,

The following link will put you there. Well, at least for two days this past August. Enjoy.

Don

http://www.hanapaa.com/bbforum/viewtopic.php?t=980


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## Samurai (Nov 24, 2005)

narfpoit,why don't you come and visit?I'm sure you won't regret it.No such thing as storing the poles/reels for winter.We fish year-round.---I don't mind showing some P&Sers around the local spots.


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## FeedMeSilence (Nov 21, 2005)

*Back Cast*

I was looking at the back cast and wondered if anyone has tried it. 

Thanxs


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## kinnakeettom (Sep 25, 2004)

If and only if you are serious and want to learn the cast, and also but most important, when to use it and when to not use it, first of all you will need a rod to backcast with and a good coach.
I use a 14' quattro and weightup to twelve oz. means nothing between 500 to 600 feet. I have just received the latest GB-3 that was built for Dave Vicary and at 15' its sweet. East Anglia Sportcast is where it all happens, and they will google up, or a video of Dave is on the HO site.
Two reel seats are a must. Low reel to cast and high to fight a large fish.
Next time you are down on Hatteras give me a ring and will be happy to show you the cast and give you any pointers.
tom


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