# Ethics and fishing



## tackdriver (May 3, 2008)

After a recent trip to catch bait I decided to walk one of the local piers just to see what had gone on that day. I am not a pier fisherman at all but I love the ocean and enjoy being out by the water any chance I get.

This day had been a productive one despite somewhat unfavorable conditions. Most people had caught a few fish, enjoyed their time and made a day out of it. Modest catches of whiting, blues, spanish and a few others seemed to be the norm. A great day for most.

It makes me happy to see kids out with their parents, guys getting in some guy time and the like. I was happy until I came across one man with a cooler full to the brim of various fish. A very large cooler at that. With what seemed to be just about every possible variety fish which are within reach of our local piers. Some game fish, some trash.

After talking to the guy a short time he then states that he "rarely eats fish" and just enjoys catching them. Now this is where I started to get pretty heated. Trying to keep my composure I asked him what he planned on doing with all of them and he goes on to say that some he'll try to give away and whatever he doesn't use will probably go in the trash.

At this point I was nearly irate that this man could be so ignorant and abuse our wonderful natural resources in such an idiotic way. I had to get out of there before I did something which could have landed me in jail. So I left, with a bad taste in my mouth.

There is a distinct difference in actual "Fishermen" and "People who fish". Fishermen are the shepherds of the sea. They protect the environment, respectfully harvest only what they can reasonably use and the rest go free to fight another day. Those other ones the "people who fish" whack'em and stack'em and never have the wherewithal to leave a few fish to go back and make more finned friends for others to enjoy. 

Quite frankly, these people tick me off to no end. With the current state of declining fish populations worldwide I can't help but wonder what our grandchildren and their children will fish for? Or if there will be any fish for them to catch?

Where do we draw the line in the sand?


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## Singletjeff (Mar 27, 2005)

I went to canada for a week fishing a couple years ago. When I read the regulations I remember coming across this!!!! Maybe we should all implement this. Straight from Ontario's regulations page

REMEMBER: It is illegal to destroy, or to allow to spoil, fish which have been caught and which are suitable for food.

Link to the site:
http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/LetsFish/2ColumnSubPage/199168.html


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

It would have been real easy to get mad and jump all over this guy but what would it gain? I ain't no saint and yea I loose my cool from time to time but explain in a teaching tone that wasting fish hurts everybody and we all want our kids to be able to come do the same thing our fathers have done in the years to come.

Not saying that would have worked because as the saying goes "There is no pill for STUPID" and even a good ol fashion butt whuppen may not have knocked some common sence into that feller.

Sad as it is to say out of the entire group of stupid people in the world they gave a few of them fishn poles, so it's our job to try and help these few that fish to learn the right way of doing things.


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## Al Kai (Jan 8, 2007)

Over here Police Officers can enforce fish and game laws.

My Son, or Son in law would be able to educate this person as well as issue any tickets for violation of fish and game rules.

Could prove to be a very expensive lesson for him.


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## oldschool (Apr 8, 2008)

Back in the 70's and early 80's the OBX bluefish blitz was a very common occurrence. 10 to 15 lb fish on every cast for as long as they stayed there, sometimes for hours at Oregon Inlet. As the fish left and beaches cleared it was just as common to see bluefish stacked on the beach and left to rot. Talk about disgusting :--|. The first time I saw this I became a Catch and Release proponent. People on the beach often cursed me when I was releasing fish while they caught nothing. It is very gratifying to see that Catch and Release has become so prevalent today, the regulations have helped too. 

Some folks will just never get it though, the only thing you can do is report illegal catches and hope the pinch teaches them that there is a price to be paid.


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## SmoothLures (Feb 13, 2008)

It's sad. That's why whenever you have a chance to take kids fishing you should teach them the importance of not wasting fish and not keeping more than you can use, and of course not keeping illegal fish. If you're not going to eat the fish, there's nothing wrong with a catch and release trip.


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## pier-legend (Jan 14, 2004)

..hate to be the one on the OTHER SIDE of this...

..BUT...WOULD IT have made you FEEL BETTER if that fisherman had told you he was gonna just EAT THEM ALL???

....well then...exactly WHAT is it about RUNNING A FISH THRU THE OLD SYSTEM...
.... and FLUSHING EM DOWN THE COMMODE THE NEXT DAY....
.... that would have made YOU FEEL BETTER????

...Was ANY LAW BROKE?..NO?!

...Has it ever occurred to any of US ....that what a person does with the fish he catchs that are LEGAL ...AIN';T NONE OF ANYONE ELSE'S d#$% BUSINESS!!!:--|

...where do we DRAW THE LINE??..HOW ABOUT in taking care of OUR's and LEAVING OTHER FOLKS ALONE....GET YOUR NOSE OUT OF IT!!

..since we have become INFESTED with "NEW TO THE AREA'S" (out of staters)...this NATIVE has been QUESTIONED more about ANY FISH I have kept MORE than the previous 40 yrs of my life...
..on the beach..... here those "people" come..
..on the Pier.......here those "people" come..
...at the boat ramp if "they" see a dead fish in my boat....:--|

..the NEW ATTITUDE is that its REALLY WRONG TO KEEP ANY FISH!!!
..WANNA BET??
...

....SUDDENLY I must JUSTIY ANY FISH DEATH CONTRIBUTED TO ME!!!...by some OFFENED DUMB A$$ from some other part of the country!!!
...(how's that working Out john-boy?)

...If you want to get your feelings hurt just approach this NATIVE and ask WHAT I intend to do with ANY FISH I have kept...I'M WAITING ON YOU!!!

...if YOU AIN'T THE WARDEN....GO AWAY!...or suffer the consquences....

...if I have broken NO LAW...THEN IF I WANT TO FEED THEM TO MY CAT...thats exactly what i WILL DO WITH THEM...and i LOVE TELLING YA!!

...WAKE UP....there is a few hundered NATIVES in my area that have VOWED and REFUSED to let a bunch of "OFFENED NEW TO THE AREAS" .. 
.....CHANGE OUR CULTURE!!!...

....IF you are OFFENDED by the KILLING of a FISH...
..THEN DO YOURSELF A FAVOR..
...QUIT FISHING!!!!
.. and LEAVE THE REST OF US ALONE!!!!

...now I got to change the grease in my FRY-DADDY.....


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## Fish Hunter (Jul 31, 2002)

Amen, amen. Preach it Pier legend.


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## Al Kai (Jan 8, 2007)

pier-legend said:


> ..hate to be the one on the OTHER SIDE of this...
> 
> ..BUT...WOULD IT have made you FEEL BETTER if that fisherman had told you he was gonna just EAT THEM ALL???
> 
> ...


A very large cooler filled to the brim with fish.

Could that cooler be holding any undersized fish?

Could he be over the limit on fish species?

He could use the fish as under arm roll on cologne stick for all I care as long as he stays within the law.

That large cooler filled to the brim with fish could attract the wrong attention.

Tell me how you feel about that.


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## 13lbflounder (May 4, 2008)

I like doing it this way.

REMEMBER: It is illegal to destroy, or to allow to spoil, fish which have been caught and which are suitable for food

Just makes sense to me.:beer:


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## tackdriver (May 3, 2008)

pier-legend:

It appears that you have quite a following here on P&S and quite frankly I can't see why. After the ignorant and holier-than-thou statements you just made, you should be ashamed of yourself. That is exactly the mentality which drove redfish to the brink of extinction. The same mentality which also facilitated the 90% declines of billfish populations world-wide. 

I don't see how the fact that your area has become "infested" with non-natives is relevant to the topic. And furthermore, your native status entitles you to nothing more than "John-boy" himself. 

The topic at hand seems to have touched a nerve with you. I am sorry for that. And I am also sorry that you can't see the big picture here. Surely the fishing world needs such a self professed legend such as yourself to champion the cause of the good. Instead we get fluffed up stories and lip service from a curmudgeon of the first rate.

On that note, i'll gladly leave you alone because indeed I am not the warden. Nor, a fan. Have fun with your fry-daddy.


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## 13lbflounder (May 4, 2008)

I agree.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*BRAVO Pier Ledgend*

What you are discribing is the DUMBING DOWN or Greening of society..... Welcome to my Nightmare.... Hang in there brother ... Theres plenty or room for all Gods creatures right next to the taters and the gravy....JAM


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## Finny (Aug 20, 2006)

Tackdriver you aint got enough of your own stuff to mind you got to mind somebody else? You just assumeing bout that cooler full of fish you don't know squat.:--|


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## SmoothLures (Feb 13, 2008)

Seems like there's a lot of people here that have a "if I caught it, I can keep it" mentality. I've seen too many times people keep every single thing they catch, despite limits or caring for our waters... They never ask or measure their catch, even though there's a ruler on the sinks. I've been there all day and not once have I heard them ask what's the limit on these. I tell them if I see a fish that looks under the limit but they just shrug it off or say I caught it so I can keep it. 

There are limits set by the DNR for a reason, and breaking the law is breaking the law, no matter how severe you may see it as. 

Sure the cooler could have been slap full of legal fish, but how many times have we seen that, even with expert fishermen? And how many times have we seen expert fishermen keep fish they intend to throw away if they can't give them away? I never have, if I catch extra fish that I can't eat within a day or two, I'll stay and keep fishing but I'll start catch and releasing the fish. The only exception is if I have an empty freezer for a rainy day. 

Just what I was taught by my father and grandfather. I don't guess everyone had that privilege.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*SmoothLures*

Hope your not refering to my post because you would be so far off base you would be out of the stadium. I could not tell you how many Drum I have caught over 27 inches..I can tell ya All have swam away to be caught by some one else.... Its the LAW... No where in this post do I see "ILEGAL" fish... If a man wants a cooler of spot so be its its legal...No ones business but his.. I am sick and tired of people trying to save me from me.. Believe me I'll be OK... The count down is on anyway enjoy the next couple of years have fun stop taking thing so serious... JAM


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## OBX Jay (Sep 3, 2007)

I’m with pier-legend.

What’s next? If I don’t fillet my flounder right and waste a couple ounces that could have made it to the Fry-Daddy, what should my punishment be?

Tackdriver: Talk about “holier-than-thou”, what did you do with the “bait” you caught? Why are those sea creatures not worthy of being consumed by humans? Get over yourself Mr. Neptune.

SmoothLuers: If you see people breaking the law and don’t report it YOU are part of the problem.


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## new2salt (Dec 28, 2000)

Well here's my opinion on this conversation. First and foremost I don't condone the waste of edible fish, but I would like to say "That to each his own". 

Tackdriver and Pier-legend, you both live in an area that can give you the best of both fishing worlds (freshwater & saltwater). Most likely for either one of you it is no more than a 30-45 minute ride to either one. This would be a dream come true for a large majority of the users of this board. I'm lucky to make it to the coast more than once or twice a year and if by chance I do catch a couple fish over the limit, then I would be very tempted to keep them. When I do get to fish the salt I do try to practice catch and release for most fish I catch that I'm not targeting, but I do have a Philippino friend that loves what I consider trash fish (pins, skates, even blues on my part), so she gets what I don't want.

If either of you was to come up to the NC foothils where I live and I was to take you trout fishing up in the mountains, you wouldn't here a word out of me if you slide a couple extra trout in your creel. That would be between you, your conscious, and the NCWRC. 

The way I see it is, that would most likely be a rare trip for you and if you want to take some advantage of it that's your choice, just like it's your choice to report ALL illegal crimes to the local law enforcement. 

There's my 2 abes worth and I hope that I haven't hurt anyones toes so much that you can't dig them in the sand tomorrow, if so then go soak them in a cold mountain stream somewhere.


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## SmoothLures (Feb 13, 2008)

JAM, I wasn't referring to any one post specifically. However if he is going to catch a cooler full of legal fish and then throw them away, that is everyone's business as it effects the waters we fish. Not to mention that it is a waste and is pathetic to kill something and not use it.

Dipnet, I have several times called the DNR, and I have yet to see an officer show up. I'm sure they know they could write plenty of tickets at the piers, there's just not the manpower to do so.


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## 13lbflounder (May 4, 2008)

1


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*I don't care if*

he feeds them to his cats or uses them as mulch for his garden LEGAL is LEGAL.. It is not open for interpretation.. 

I grew up in a Biker family (Lords) and we were all taught about he 3 F's and here they are :

If it doesn' F (Fill in the blanks), FEED, Or Finance me its none of my business....

We would be a whole lot better off as a society if most folks practiced this.... JAM


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## troutfishr (Nov 30, 2005)

*Ethics vs FISHING?*

Which is more ethical, a cooler full of fish (legal) to be eaten, given away or thrown away(chances are they'll ALL be taken if given), OR a beach full of rotting by-catch? mind you both are legal. I don't hunt but I do keep my freezer stocked with fish for those winter days when I can't go but want fish to eat. All being said, if you see something illegal being done, by all means report it, but don't criticize someone because YOU don't agree with their practices.


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

OK I am calling Bull on some of you not carring,,,, yall know me and I know you and have seen some if not most yell at some folks about keeping a fish out of the water to long or holding a fish by the gills or tossing a fish over the railing and letting it do a belly flop. Just because that certian fish happens to be a BIG RED DRUM doesnt make any difference. 

Ya'll know I am all for making sure a fish is treated well if it is going to be put back so no flack on me.

There is no law saying how I have to hold a big drum or I cant rip a hook out of his mouth with a pair of pliers or I cant take as long as I want getting measurements and walking the fish back to my truck to get pics, I ain't breaking any law.

Will I yell at that guy for doing any of those acts,, your darn tooten but most of the time yall have already been yelling at that guy.


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## lil red jeep (Aug 17, 2007)

JAM said:


> he feeds them to his cats or uses them as mulch for his garden LEGAL is LEGAL.. It is not open for interpretation..
> 
> I grew up in a Biker family (Lords) and we were all taught about he 3 F's and here they are :
> 
> ...


You are an absolute MORON! Thank God we don't all practice that. Then we'd all be absolute MORONS!


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

perception is everything.public relations can make or break us.
anything that negatively impacts our sport,is our buisness.
if we don't police our own ranks, the lawmakers and enviros will do it for us.
sometimes talking to a person will work and some times it won't but it's always worth the try.
and believe me,we have more than our share of
"people who fish" in jersey!
my philosophy is....keep it to eat it or put it back.


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

fish bucket said:


> perception is everything.public relations can make or break us.
> anything that negatively impacts our sport,is our buisness.
> if we don't police our own ranks, the lawmakers and enviros will do it for us.
> sometimes talking to a person will work and some times it won't but it's always worth the try.
> ...


Well said!!!!!!!!!!!


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## 13lbflounder (May 4, 2008)

Moron, I think best describes those that really don't care. They are probably the same ones throwing trash out going down the highway. Crazy enough, I am now led to believe there are more people like them, because they are raising families that way.

The thread is titled "Ethics and Fishing", the thread never questioned legality of the cooler of fish. The post only spoke of how unethical it is to just waste a keeper and throw it away.

Moron, that's a good word.

I am thankful my daddy did not raise me like that.


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## Blloyd (Oct 26, 2004)

Wow, maybe I'm totally naive, but why would someone think that wasting fish was o.k.? If you're not going to eat it, then it's just as easy to throw it back into the water than to throw it in your cooler. With that being said, I guess I'm only talking about the "trash fish" because I'm sure he could have emptied his cooler if he was honestly going to offer the fish up while on the pier. But, trash fish are in the water for a reason too.


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## OBX_Nomad (Mar 8, 2005)

In response to JAM's post. . . . 



lil red jeep said:


> You are an absolute MORON! Thank God we don't all practice that. Then we'd all be absolute MORONS!


*LOL! What was your first clue?????*


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

OK first off there will be no name calling PERIOD

Second I know Jam and know for a fact he works eveyday to help save our beaches and doesn't waste fish. All Jam was saying is if the guy isn't breaking any laws nothing can be said.

Remember folks, be very carfull of the words that you let slip out of your mouths or you may be sent to the MORON corner. NO NAME CALLING


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## steve grossman (Feb 1, 2008)

What a boring world it would be, if all of us thought the same thoughts, acted the same, said the same things over and over again.

Isnt it OK for all of us to think differently, or is it Un-American to have different philosophies??

Just a thought--When we dissagreeeeeee, WHY the name calling??

Remember, we are all in this bucket together, trying to afford gas in our machines etc.


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## 13lbflounder (May 4, 2008)

Shooter said:


> All Jam was saying is if the guy isn't breaking any laws nothing can be said.
> 
> He's right.


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## b3butner (Oct 1, 2003)

If you catch it and it is a legal catch it is yours to do what ever you want. If you catch it you have a choice to make. Kill it or release it. If you want to use it great. As for what, that is your bussiness. If your not going to use it release it as unharmed as you can. Make your choice quickly. Keeping a catch because some one MAY want it is not a good idea. At the end of the day if no one wants it you have a dead fish which can't be released. Throw it back, sure it will be consumed but that is sad.
What is my bussiness? Anyone abusing God's creations is my bussiness. There is however many ways of handling bussiness. Some tactful some not.
Go fish, have a good time, eat fish if you want, release fish if you want, be nice to your fellow fisherman-they might be new and not know any better. 
Just remember all great things must come to an end. Don't make them come sooner.:fishing:


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

pier-legend said:


> ..BUT...WOULD IT have made you FEEL BETTER if that fisherman had told you he was gonna just EAT THEM ALL???


Yes, filling a cooler just to drag them to the trash can serves what purpose? 



pier-legend said:


> ...Has it ever occurred to any of US ....that what a person does with the fish he catchs that are LEGAL ...AIN';T NONE OF ANYONE ELSE'S d#$% BUSINESS!!!:--|


And there you are wrong . . . The fish of the sea are a public resource, unless you raised them on your own property they are not yours to do with what you wish. That they happen to have the misfortune to swim under the rail of the pier you paid a couple bucks to fish from, is not a determination that you own them. 



pier-legend said:


> ...where do we DRAW THE LINE??..HOW ABOUT in taking care of OUR's and LEAVING OTHER FOLKS ALONE....GET YOUR NOSE OUT OF IT!!


I fear if you need to ask that question one will have difficulty comprehending the answer. Your posts on this board stand as testament of the truth of that theory.



pier-legend said:


> ..since we have become INFESTED with "NEW TO THE AREA'S" (out of staters)...this NATIVE has been QUESTIONED more about ANY FISH I have kept MORE than the previous 40 yrs of my life...
> ..on the beach..... here those "people" come..
> ..on the Pier.......here those "people" come..
> ...at the boat ramp if "they" see a dead fish in my boat....:--|
> ...


And how does any of that foot-stomping tantrum relate to the topic of the original post? The difficulty that tackdriver had with Mr. Keepitall wasn't his gluttony for fish it was that the man saw nothing wrong with wantonly wasting the resource! 

Do you agree that there is a finite number of consumable critters that swim within casting distance of a particular joist of any given pier each day, week, month and year? If you answer yes then your position MUST be that wanton waste is wrong! 

If, OTOH you think the sea under that pier has a Willy Wonka Fish Factory squirting out uncountable numbers of widdle fishies -- then, by all means, proceed with your "I'll kill everything don't question me" mantra.



pier-legend said:


> ....SUDDENLY I must JUSTIY ANY FISH DEATH CONTRIBUTED TO ME!!!...by some OFFENED DUMB A$$ from some other part of the country!!!


I think that you would find it _very_ difficult to compose any moral justification of your warped sense of right and wrong as it relates to causing the death of animals. 

Anyone expressing (and celebrating) the attitudes you have previously expressed on this board certainly is _*not*_ a sportsman and can claim no reverence for nature or connection with it. You are simply an exploiter and deserve NO respect or attention from real sportsmen.

You are a disgrace and make it nearly impossible for responsible sportsmen who are concerned with sustainable harvest to represent hunters and fishermen as custodians of wildlife . . .

You are everything the anti's and enviro-wackos say we are and if you had fewer posts I would make the bold statement that you are in fact an _agent provocateur_.


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## tackdriver (May 3, 2008)

Sgt_Slough said:


> Yes, filling a cooler just to drag them to the trash can serves what purpose?
> 
> 
> And there you are wrong . . . The fish of the sea are a public resource, unless you raised them on your own property they are not yours to do with what you wish. That they happen to have the misfortune to swim under the rail of the pier you paid a couple bucks to fish from, is not a determination that you own them.
> ...


*Applaud*

Well said. And thank you.


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

Yep, the Sarge is right.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*To those that called me a moron over the Inet*

Come on by You all know where I work..your real close to the OBX stop on by and flex your internet muscles in person.. I'll give ya an atitude adjustment.. 

Posers...... JAM

PS for the record I let most everything I catch go back to swim another day.. Not because you say so.. Because I do...


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## OBX_Nomad (Mar 8, 2005)

Kudos Sarge. Game. . . Set. . . . Match!


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## sprtsracer (Apr 27, 2005)

Ya know...I can remember the days when everyone had some sort of a garden and bunches of us raised tomatoes! Lots of them used to rot on the vine, and we tried to give away all that we could to the Mail Carrier, Insurance Guy, Meter Reader, neighbors, etc. while we ate our fill all through the summer! While there is no law broken here, why should someone be chastised for catching a legal limit and then trying to feed others? Some of those tomatoes are going to rot, and so will some of the fish. Ever go in a Supermarket and see what happens to the outdated fish??? Should the fisherman/boat/company be harrangued for selling the meat to a supermarket that kept fish that were never eaten and had to be thrown away? Anyone ever let hamburger go bad in their fridge? Poor cow!!! To throw fish away is terrible, but I don't see where Jam or anyone else was saying that was OK! Another conundrum...what about a foreign introduced species that was competing with one of our natural species??? Can we catch, kill, and toss all of those? Who defines what is a waste? I think the best thing for all of us to do is to take a look back at all the different fish we have caught, decide what we considered "trash fish" and then remember what we did with them! I don't think any of us are totally innocent here...but I try to release as many of every type of fish that I can. As Americans, unfortunately, we throw away FAR TOO MUCH food!!! I don't think we should blame Publix/Winn Dixie/Kroger/Food Lion, etc. Maybe we should look deeper into our psyche and figure out why we waste so much, even when we have the best intentions! Why the heck did I buy that piece of meat that looked great, but that I never had time to eat and therefore it went "bad"? People who live in glass houses do not throw stones!!!


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## Charlie2 (May 2, 2007)

*Fishing Ethics*

Don't waste your time on clods. All it's going to do is to get yourself all worked up. There's nothing that you canl do that will change them. JMHO C2


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## seajay (Dec 18, 2005)

tackdriver said:


> After a recent trip to catch bait I decided to walk one of the local piers just to see what had gone on that day. I am not a pier fisherman at all but I love the ocean and enjoy being out by the water any chance I get.
> 
> This day had been a productive one despite somewhat unfavorable conditions. Most people had caught a few fish, enjoyed their time and made a day out of it. Modest catches of whiting, blues, spanish and a few others seemed to be the norm. A great day for most.
> 
> ...


That is why you drive all over the Dunes and were ever with 1/2 flat tires and destroy the natural beaches. And then want to dictate what one man does with a fish. Go figure


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## tackdriver (May 3, 2008)

seajay said:


> That is why you drive all over the Dunes and were ever with 1/2 flat tires and destroy the natural beaches. And then want to dictate what one man does with a fish. Go figure


Uhh, NO. 

Where I live we are not permitted to drive on any beach. But it was a brilliant retort.. Really...


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## seajay (Dec 18, 2005)

tackdriver said:


> Uhh, NO.
> 
> Where I live we are not permitted to drive on any beach. But it was a brilliant retort.. Really...


 Well taken Tack. I understand your aggravation with the reply from that fellow.I only take what I am going to eat,not much on filling the freezer unless it is Wahoo or Tuna. And then only what will be cooked in a short time.
Here's to you:beer:


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## new2salt (Dec 28, 2000)

I must say that I agree with sprtsracer the more I read these responses. "I don't think any of us are totally innocent here..." These are times of uncertainty everywhere you look(gas prices, beach closings, grocery prices in general, finances, etc.) and it's very easy to let certain personal views come to the point of controlling our ever emotion. I, myself must admit that I used my own post to blow off some steam and for that I apologize if I personally offended anyone or everyone.

I'm sure that somewhere down all our roads we have all broken some law in one shape or another and I'm sure non of us have went and hunted a patrolman down to confess that we inavertly went 5mph over the speed limit. I also feel safe in saying that on more than one occassion we all have thrown away a piece of beef, pork, or poultry that has gone bad. Try going tell the farmer that spent his time, sweat, and money producing this, that a fish has more value than his product. Go tell the produce grower that his crops are second rate to a fish that was grown in nature that didn't cost anyone a dime to raise, didn't have too worry about a drought or too much rain. See what kind of response you might get out of them. Try telling your mechanic that going a hundred or so miles over on an oil change doesn't make any diffrence and watch the expression on his face.

It all boils down to your passion. What you may consider important in your life, means nothing to the guy setting next to you at the next traffic light and there's a good chance what is worrying him means nothing to you. 

If you feel the need to report a wildlife violation then by all means do it, but if I was you I wouldn't do it while speeding or running a yellow light to get to your favorite fishing spot, because there maybe someone watching you and doing the same thing.


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## pier-legend (Jan 14, 2004)

Sgt_Slough said:


> Yes, filling a cooler just to drag them to the trash can serves what purpose?
> 
> 
> And there you are wrong . . . The fish of the sea are a public resource, unless you raised them on your own property they are not yours to do with what you wish. That they happen to have the misfortune to swim under the rail of the pier you paid a couple bucks to fish from, is not a determination that you own them.
> ...



...Gosh Sarge you have really HURT MY FEELINGS!!!.
...I"M ALL ASHAMED NOW!!..

.....in fact the next time I have my LEGAL LIMIT ACCORDING TO THE LAW of ANYTHING....and one of the INFESTATION of "NEW TO THE AREAS" ask me WHAT I"M GOING to DO with all the "widdle fisheys"....

...I will just say...HERE LET ME CLEAN SOME FOR YOU..... my "FISH HUGGING FRIEND"...since your down here on this beach MINDING MY BUSINESS!!!
..(have we met?!?? your from where UP NORTH?)

...but before you take them....PLEASE don't PUT them in the FREEZER...cause it might go off and you would have to THROW THEM AWAY!!!
...keep them on ice til you eat them....SO NONE WILL BE WASTED...can't let any be wasted in anyway you know!!
....
..then the next morning after you EAT THEM you can SALUTE their RIGHTEOUS DEMISE as the BROWN SMEARED CHARMIN....
.... follows them down the OLE flusher LIKE A BATTLE FLAG to ALL THAT GOOD and RIGHT concerning ALL FISH....

...why my FISH-HUGGING new aquaintaince...
YOU CAN EVEN RE-NAME the OLD "READING ROOM"....
...FROM now on you can think of it as the OLD "TROUT HOLE"...or "FLOUNDER HOLE"...

..yep sarge I HAVE SEEN THE LITE...

...From NOW ON this "JOHN-BOY" will NEVER leave the pier or surf again TIL he has asked EVER FISH-HUGGER I can find if the LEGAL LIMIT I have...IS ALRIGHT WITH THEM!!!:--|

..And FULLY EXPLAIN what I intend to do with EVERY "widdle fishy"I have caught!!!:redface:

....I think we now need FORMS to FILL OUT ..
EVERY TIME WE GO FISHING...
..CLEARLY STATING what we INTEND to DO WITH THE "widdle fishes" we MIGHT CATCH...

..then we can VOTE ON IT ...and see if the ole LEGEND SHOULD EVEN BE FISHING AT ALL!!!

...maybe we can set up a location where we can TURN OURSELVES IN... every time we DON'T USE A FISH in a way thats makes all FISH-HUGGERS HAPPY....:--|

....Maybe we can PUT OUR PICTURES on MILK CARTONS EVERY TIME WE DON'T EAT ALL THE FISH THATS ON OUR PLATE!!!

..Sarge...it maybe time for FISH-HUGGER POSSES.... to start patrolling ALL BEACHS, PIERS, and BOAT RAMPS...JUST to MAKE SURE that NO ONE IS WASTING their LEGAL LIMIT!!

....LEGAL LIMIT..you know SARGE that NUMBER of CERTAIN SPECIES... that we ALL PAID OUR LICENSE FEE to SUPPORT???..

..."LEGAL LIMIT" ...that CERTAIN NUMBER and CERTAIN LENGTH that the "Croaker cops"KEEP opening my cooler checking for.....
..I don't care WHAT you THINK of ME...

....BUT...MY LEGAL LIMIT of ANYTHING..
...AIN'T NONE of your BUSINESS..
..NOT NOW...NOT TOMORROW...NOT NEVER..

...WHO DIED and LEFT YOU IN CHARGE of ANYONE"S LEGAL CATCH???...of ANYTHING...That a LICENSE WAS PAID FOR....and THAT LEGAL under the LAW??
..thats for all of you "Fish-Police" out there!!

..yep according to the FISH-HUGGERS anytime you land a bluefish or a shark ON A MULLET...you have WASTED THAT FISH...

.... cause it didn't CATCH a DRUM...

..reckonn you ever WASTED any MULLET or POGEYS, SARGE???
..RECKON the FISH-HUGGERS are gonna put you on a milk carton???

...WE pay WARDENS to ENFORCE the LAWS.....
...WE buy LICENSES to PAY the WARDENS..

....MY LEGAL FISH...YOUR LEGAL FISH...ALL GODS CHILDRENS LEGAL FISH...
..ain't none of no FISH HUGGERS [email protected]## BUSINESS..
...and I stand by my original post..
..GET YOUR FISH-HUGGING NOSE OUT OF OTHERS BUSINESS!!
....this is Marvin Webster...ya'll think about it..

...


----------



## b3butner (Oct 1, 2003)

What a MAN!


----------



## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

pier-legend said:


> <_SNIP_>


After reading _that_ I feel the most eloquent rebuttal I could compose could not further prove my point. You are not worthy of a moment's attention from real sportsmen except to point to you as an example of what not to be or how to conduct yourself in public (and to stay in school). 

So, I'll just acknowledge that I have read your post and it shall stand in all its glory without any further comment from me . . .


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## Al Kai (Jan 8, 2007)

Pier Legend:
Sir, I assumed that the fish in the cooler may have contained Illegal fish.

You assume all the fish in the cooler was legal.

We are both guilty of making an assumption. 

You dont strike me as a person who will keep everything he catches.
Sounds to me like your frustrated by outsiders tampering with your way of life which I might add they have no right to do.

If I were visiting you're place I would repect you and your heritage.

You have strong beliefs about fishing and others here have equally strong beliefs.

My questions to you are simple.

Everytime you go fishing do you always keep everything you catch?

Have you ever released a legal fish?


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## pier-legend (Jan 14, 2004)

Al Kai said:


> Pier Legend:
> Sir, I assumed that the fish in the cooler may have contained Illegal fish.
> 
> You assume all the fish in the cooler was legal.
> ...


..1.NO..
..2.Of Course....


----------



## tackdriver (May 3, 2008)

pier-legend said:


> ...Gosh Sarge you have really HURT MY FEELINGS!!!.
> ...I"M ALL ASHAMED NOW!!..
> 
> .....in fact the next time I have my LEGAL LIMIT ACCORDING TO THE LAW of ANYTHING....and one of the INFESTATION of "NEW TO THE AREAS" ask me WHAT I"M GOING to DO with all the "widdle fisheys"....
> ...



I am going to file this post under "D"

D = Drunken diatribes spewed by people I could not care any care less about.


And for the record: Just because it's "legal" does not mean it's *RIGHT!*


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*Clods and Morons*

I rather be a clod or a moron then walk around with my head stuck so far up my @ss that I can taste my breakfast... When you all in town stop by and see me... And call me name to my face you internet heros..... JAM


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## tackdriver (May 3, 2008)

JAM said:


> I rather be a clod or a moron then walk around with my head stuck so far up my @ss that I can taste my breakfast... When you all in town stop by and see me... And call me name to my face you internet heros..... JAM



You should be the subject of one of those Budweiser commercials..

It would go something like: 
*song*
Real men of genius, Mr. Internet fishing toughguy. 

We salute you! 
...For being the toughest guy on a fishing forum and having the scrotum to stick up to those internet hero-types. 
*end-song*

:beer:


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## OBX Jay (Sep 3, 2007)

I understand this is about what is ethical, not legal. If the big cooler guy was telling the truth I don't see an argument for fish going in the trash being ethical - it aint, period. Illegal is a whole nother matter.



tackdriver said:


> After talking to the guy a short time he then states that he "rarely eats fish" and just enjoys catching them. Now this is where I started to get pretty heated. Trying to keep my composure I asked him what he planned on doing with all of them and he goes on to say that some he'll try to give away and whatever he doesn't use will probably go in the trash.


It may be a case where the big cooler guy didn't care for someone sticking their nose into his business and just felt like tweaking the over inquisitive "tourist". Who knows? I wasn't there. I'm just sayin.

FB makes a great point.



fish bucket said:


> perception is everything.public relations can make or break us.
> anything that negatively impacts our sport,is our buisness.
> if we don't police our own ranks, the lawmakers and enviros will do it for us.
> sometimes talking to a person will work and some times it won't but it's always worth the try.
> ...


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## tackdriver (May 3, 2008)

List of Known Commercials

2000 commercials

* Mr. Bass Plaque Maker
* Mr. Bowling Shoe Giver Outer
* Mr. Bumper Sticker Writer
* Mr. Chinese Food Delivery Guy
* Mr. Driving Range Ball Picker Upper
* Mr. Fake Tattoo Inventor
* Mr. Foot Long Hot Dog Inventor
* Mr. Fortune Cookie Fortune Writer
* Mr. Garden Gnome Maker
* Mr. Giant Foam Finger Maker
* Mr. Hawaiian Shirt Pattern Designer
* Mr. Inspirational Poster Writer
* Mr. Jelly Donut Filler
* Mr. Losing Locker Room Reporter
* Mr. Major League Infield Raker
* Mr. Male Football Cheerleader
* Mr. Outside the Stadium Peanut Seller
* Mr. Parking Attendant Flashlight Waver
* Mr. Pickled Pig's Feet Eater
* Mr. Pit Crew Water Bottle Squirter
* Mr. Pro Wrestling Wardrobe Designer
* Mr. Professional Movie Extra Guy
* Mr. Putt Putt Golf Course Designer
* Mr. Really Bad Toupee Wearer
* Mr. Supermarket Deli Meat Slicer
* Mr. Underwear Inspector #12
* Mr. Wrecking Ball Operator

2001 commercials

* Mr. All You Can Eat Buffet Inventor
* Mr. Camouflage Suit Maker
* Mr. Company Computer Guy
* Mr. Edible Underwear Maker
* Mr. Experimental Medications Tester
* Mr. Golf Ball Washer Inventor
* Mr. Hockey Organ Player
* Mr. Horsedrawn Carriage Driver
* Mr. Male Fur Coat Wearer
* Mr. Nudist Colony Activity Coordinator
* Mr. Professional Figure Skater
* Mr. Professional Movie Extra Guy
* Mr. Renaissance Fair Performer
* Mr. Restroom Toilet Paper Re-Filler
* Mr. Supermarket Free Sample Guy
* Mr. Wedding Band Guitar Player

2002 commercials

* Mr. Airport Baggage Handler
* Mr. Athletic Groin Protector Inventor
* Mr. Beach Metal Detector Guy
* Mr. Boombox Carrying Rollerskater
* Mr. Centerfold Retoucher
* Mr. Fancy Coffee Shop Coffee Pourer
* Mr. Fancy Restaurant Valet Guy
* Mr. Giant Inflatable Pink Gorilla Maker
* Mr. Giant Taco Salad Inventor
* Mr. Handlebar Mustache Wearer
* Mr. Hollywood Plastic Surgeon
* Mr. Parade Float Driver
* Mr. Silent Killer Gas Passer
* Mr. Souvenir Snow Globe Maker
* Mr. Sports Fan Face Painter
* Mr. Tiny Thong Bikini Wearer
* Mr. Tuxedo Shop Tux Renter
* Mr. Used Car Lot Auto Salesman

2003 commercials

* Mr. Airline Meal Chef
* Mr. Art School Model Guy
* Mr. Baseball Designated Hitter
* Mr. Books on Tape Inventor
* Mr. Cargo Pants Designer
* Mr. Civil War Battle Re-Enactor
* Mr. Cruise Ship Entertainer
* Mr. Discount Suit Salesman
* Mr. Dishonest Cable TV Hooker Upper
* Mr. Furniture Assembly Manual Writer
* Mr. Giant Pocket Knife Inventor
* Mr. Grocery Store Cart Wrangler (TV)
* Mr. Homemade Pontoon Boat Maker
* Mr. In the Car Nose Picker
* Mr. Major Highway Line Painter
* Mr. Movie Theater Ticket Ripper Upper
* Mr. Multi Colored Sweater Wearer
* Mr. Next Day Carpet Installer
* Mr. Pet Toy Designer
* Mr. Pro Sports Heckler Guy
* Mr. Push Up Bra Inventor
* Mr. Really Big Pet Snake Owner
* Mr. Really Large Body Building Guy
* Mr. Really Stinky Breath Breather Outer
* Mr. Really, Really, Really Bad Dancer
* Mr. Street Lamp Bulb Screwer-Inner
* Mr. Way Too Much Cologne Wearer

2004 commercials

* Mr. Accordion Player Guy
* Mr. Adult Film Movie Actor Guy
* Mr. Animal Husbandry Expert
* Mr. Bathroom Stall Dirty Joke Writer
* Mr. Clip on Tie Inventor
* Mr. Discount Airline Pilot Guy
* Mr. Doctor Tree Surgeon
* Mr. Excited About Storms Weatherman
* Mr. Extra, Extra Strong Glue Maker
* Mr. Gangsta Rapper Posse Member
* Mr. Gas Station Sandwich Maker
* Mr. Ghetto Car Driver
* Mr. Guy Wearing a Poncho
* Mr. High Protein Diet Guy
* Mr. Hot Stock Tip Advice Giver Outer
* Mr. In the Park Cartoonist
* Mr. Miniature Train Modeler
* Mr. Motorcycle Side Car Rider
* Mr. New Shoe Tissue Paper Stuffer
* Mr. Over The Top Carb Counter
* Mr. Oversized Fanny Pack Wearer
* Mr. Personal Space Invader
* Mr. Portable Toilet Cleaner-Outer
* Mr. Reality TV Show Star
* Mr. Really, Really Tight Jean wearer
* Mr. Restaurant Food Critic Guy
* Mr. Tiny Dog Clothing Manufacturer
* Mr. Warehouse Shopping Club Member
* Mr. Way too Much Team Clothes Wearer

2005 commercials

* Mr. "Kiss Me I'm Irish" Pin Wearer
* Mr. 80 SPF Sunblock Wearer
* Mr. After Halloween Costume Shop Salesman
* Mr. Backyard Bug Zapper Inventor
* Mr. Basketball Court Sweat Wiper Upper
* Mr. Ceremonial First Pitch Thrower Outer
* Mr. Department Store Mannequin Dresser Upper
* Mr. Egg Nog Inventor
* Mr. Electric Carving Knife Inventor
* Mr. Frozen Turkey Helpline Guy
* Mr. Gasoline BBQ Starter
* Mr. Humongous Pumpkin Grower Guy
* Mr. Jean Shorts (JORTS) Inventor
* Mr. King of the Karaoke Mic
* Mr. Labor Day Inventor
* Mr. Las Vegas Trip Taker
* Mr. Law Enforcement Cavity Searcher
* Mr. Mail-Order Bride Orderer
* Mr. Moped Souper-Upper
* Mr. Nosebleed Section Ticket Holder Guy
* Mr. Overzealous Foul Ball Catcher
* Mr. Paranoid of the Ocean Guy
* Mr. Supermarket Produce Putter Outer

2006 commercials

* Mr. Apartment Next to the L Tracks Guy
* Mr. Artificial Tree Maker
* Mr. Boneless Buffalo Wing Inventor
* Mr. Cell Phone Holster Wearer
* Mr. Enormous SUV Driver
* Mr. Exotic Cowboy Boot Wearer
* Mr. Fantasy Football Manager Guy
* Mr. Hair Gel Over-Geller
* Mr. Half-Time Shooting Contest Contestant
* Mr. Holiday Gift Regifter Guy
* Mr. Hot-Dog-Eating-Contest Contestant
* Mr. Indecisive Food Orderer Guy
* Mr. Really Big Golf Club Maker
* Mr. Really Loud Cell Phone Talker Guy
* Mr. Ultimate Philadelphia Sports Fan
* Mr. Way-Too-Proud-of-Texas Guy

2007 commercials

* Mr. Automatic Tax Extension Filer
* Mr. Baseball Stadium Glove Wearing Guy
* Mr. Basketball Shoe Designer
* Mr. Blue Aluminum Bottle Maker
* Mr. Chazz Michael Michaels (re-release of 2001's Mr. Professional Figure Skater, but specially branded for the 2007 film, Blades of Glory)
* Mr. Chicago Bears Fan
* Mr. Doggy Day Spa Operator
* Mr. Good Luck Chuck Wedding Guest Number Four
* Mr. Local Texas Football Hero Guy
* Mr. Overly Competitive Touch Football Game Player
* Mr. Over-Zealous Foulball Catcher
* Mr. Oxygen Bar Inventor
* Mr. Professional Sports Leg Cramp Rubber Outer
* Mr. Refuses To Turn On His Air Conditioning Guy
* Mr. Retired Professional Football Player - inspired by Mike Golic of ESPN Radio
* Mr. Rolling Cooler Cooler Roller
* Mr. Stadium Scoreboard Marriage Proposal Guy
* Mr. Taxi Cab Over Accesorizer
* Mr. Tollbooth Collector
* Mr. T-Shirt Launcher Inventor
* Mr. Unathletic Sports Radio Talk Show Host - inspired by Mike Greenberg of ESPN Radio [1]

2008:
Mr. Internet Fishing Toughguy


----------



## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*Tackdriver*

I have not called anyone any names (childish) I am not hiding behind a keyboard (like YOU) If ya got the set come on by and be the Internet Hero you are.. My tag is my real name.. I am sure TACKDRIVER is your God given name.... I can see why I stoped looking @ these pages months ago.. 

POSERS


JAM


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## pier-legend (Jan 14, 2004)

JAM said:


> I have not called anyone any names (childish) I am not hiding behind a keyboard (like YOU) If ya got the set come on by and be the Internet Hero you are.. My tag is my real name.. I am sure TACKDRIVER is your God given name.... I can see why I stoped looking @ these pages months ago..
> 
> POSERS
> 
> ...


...well FISH-HUGGERS ya'll gonna go see JAM the MAN??...
...dog me if you want...But IF your gonna go VISIT JAM the MAN.....BETTER PACK YOUR LUNCH!!!
...he has BLOOD invested in this bull$$$ THAT we are just running our mouths about...
...leave em alone huggers...


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## lil red jeep (Aug 17, 2007)

Shooter said:


> OK first off there will be no name calling PERIOD
> 
> Second I know Jam and know for a fact he works eveyday to help save our beaches and doesn't waste fish. All Jam was saying is if the guy isn't breaking any laws nothing can be said.
> 
> Remember folks, be very carfull of the words that you let slip out of your mouths or you may be sent to the MORON corner. NO NAME CALLING


Sorry Shooter, if I think of JAM as a moron I should keep that to myself. My point was if someone thinks that if the "Three F's" don't apply then it's none of his business. That's paramount to saying that the crystal meth lab operating in the house next door to him is none of his business. Or saying the guy on the corner selling crack isn't any of his business because it doesn't directly faze him. It's when people turn a blind eye to what's being done around them that is obviously wrong that we as a society are turning numb. In some peoples case, numb from the shoulders up. This thread has ethics in the title and JAM is entitled to his opinion, but for that matter, so am I, and my feeling is his ethics leave something to be desired.


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## lil red jeep (Aug 17, 2007)

13lbflounder said:


> Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > All Jam was saying is if the guy isn't breaking any laws nothing can be said.
> ...


----------



## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Wow, a new braid vs mono etc thread....

Seems to me the original poster may have gotten suckered in by someone that was tired of tourist asking what they caught, if not tragic but hardly worth name calling on this thread IMO.

Hey Jam, I'll be down there next weekend to support yall and get a lil fishing in.

And if I happen to catch a cooler full of mullet and they are legal I will share em with ya.

If ya don't want em I'll bring em home cause thats my right, anywhoo...

Look forward to seeing ya soon my friend.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*The 3 f's mean*

Mind you own dam business plain and simple... Boy I wish I could go back to them old days and stay.. When people would mind their own business and take care of themselves... 

Again I called no one a name 

lil red jeep

I am BIG RED JEEP if you have issues with me then do it to my face LIKE A MAN..Not like an internet hero... 


Clay see ya when ya get here, getting insane down here.... Looking foward to seeing ya... I like MONO.... Braid sux... JAM


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

*It seems to never change*

Once again words are being added to a post when they shouldn't be. WHY??? Because time wasn't taken to read the post in the first place. NO WHERE in tackdriver's post did it mention the legallity of the catch that was taken. The whole post questions the ETHICAL LOGIC of what was being done. Have I done what that angler did? Yes. I keep what I want, give some away to friends and the trash fish get made into chum. Saves me money in the long run. I have to admit, catching a cooler of fish, keeping what you want, giving some to friends is a good thing. THROWING THE REST AWAY makes no sense to me what so ever. To me, what that angler did is the same as bagging a trophy buck and taking his rack and leaving the rest to rot. Makes no sense. So the man didn't eat fish. So what. Doesn't mean he can't fish. The question is, is it morally and ethically right to do what he did. I'm sure he had his reasons. To some it makes sense and to some like me it does not.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

Cdog said:


> Wow, a new braid vs mono etc thread....


Exactly!

And the same "I'm a native and I'll do what the #@%! I want when I want -- Yankees outsiders and fish huggers be damned -- come down here and say it to my face" attitude is paramount in this discussion. As is the complete lack of reading comprehension by the tough guys. . . 

And a RuddeDogg and others have pointed out repeatedly, the issue raised is not legal but _*ethical*_.

Trying to explain the reason they are wrong is a difficult as explaining a milkshake to pygmies in New Guinea.


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## Dr. Bubba (Nov 9, 1999)

Cdog said:


> Wow, a new braid vs mono etc thread....
> 
> Seems to me the original poster may have gotten suckered in by someone that was tired of tourist asking what they caught, if not tragic but hardly worth name calling on this thread IMO.
> 
> ...


JAM, I'll be with him. And when I outfish him and fill that cooler myself (on barney rigs, no less...) I'll share with ya too...


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*Ding Ding winner by TKO !*

Goes to SGT Slough and tackdriver.

Don't get me wrong, I understand Jam and Pier-legend's position. Doesn't make it right. Intentionally telling a busy body something to get a rise out of them is one thing, and I understand that. We don't have the benefit of hearing from the person tackdriver encountered, so there is no way to know what their side of the story is. 

Hiding behind the law to say it's legal, so mind you own beeswax!!

A. We dont know if it was legal or not.

B. As pointed out, it's not about legal it's about ethics- something Jam and pier-legend seem intent on AVOIDING further discussion over.

If Bill Gates has sufficient capital to buy up all the oil reserves (just because he can), and blast them off to outerspace, and the money to buy off congress to make it legal, does that make it right !!

Perhaps no one should give a rats behind that the menhaden fleets sucking up all the bait food resources in the bay are making fertilizer (or what have you) out of the precious resouces- after all they can do WHATEVER they want with the resouces they have obtained LEGALLY- RIGHT !!

and since "They" the legal system have closed off beach access "LEGALLY" ya all don't have the right to question whether IT'S RIGHT OR NOT........so nosy people don't question the law- just MYOB.

Get the Point !!


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## chriscustom (Jun 17, 2006)

*so what*

Everyone has different opinion on just about everything.Some say let it be others say do something about it.So who's right?I use to live by the motto ,do unto others before they do unto you.Now I do unto others as I want them to do to me.I will say if I see you doing wrong I will tell you about it in a nice way that you will thank me or you will want to heap large amounts of money on me.
Put that in you pocket and play with it!


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## Al Kai (Jan 8, 2007)

pier-legend said:


> ..1.NO..
> ..2.Of Course....


This pretty much seals the deal for me.

Thanks Pier legend.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*Far from legal my freind....*

and since "They" the legal system have closed off beach access "LEGALLY" ya all don't have the right to question whether IT'S RIGHT OR NOT........so nosy people don't question the law- just MYOB


Back room deal with a bought off Judge... No economic impact study.. No NEPA... No public comment.... Yeah thats legal... 

Ethics: 12 year USAF Held a TSSCI (Top Secret)security clearance, numerous awards for Operation OEF, 911 and what not but yeah I have no ethics.. 

Left AF because I did not like the way Govt was run... Yeah no ethics... 


I am done with this site Sea YA 

JAM out for good....Deleting user account as we speak....


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## OBX_Nomad (Mar 8, 2005)

JAM said:


> I am done with this site Sea YA
> 
> JAM out for good....Deleting user account as we speak....



*I hear RDT is looking for a few good posers. LOL*


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## tackdriver (May 3, 2008)

To get back on track:

As Sarge pointed out, this whole thread was created to talk about *ETHICS* of the fishing public. Not to start a mud-slinging contest. 

I apologize for indulging in a bit of slinging myself. Warranted or not, it's still a waste of bandwidth and storage space. 

It is my hope that we can continue this discussion in a logical and tactful way. And to clarify: the legality of the issue is not what is in question here. So please stop beating that dead horse.

And furthermore: to those who hinted to the possibility that the man with the cooler may have said such things to get a rise out of me. While there is an outside chance of this being true, I do not believe this to be the case. The way the conversation went left me feeling that this man was sincere. Aside from being sincere, this man just seemed to be on the simple side.

On another note: I would like to commend those of you who go the extra mile to take care of nature. And those of you who release that of which you could not reasonably use. And those who pick up the trash on the beaches that others leave behind. It takes a special kind to care. I appreciate you all.


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## scavengerj (Sep 10, 2007)

A good article in the In-Fisherman a few months ago on just this very topic..."Legal vs. Ethical". Very good read.

I feel ethics is taught, not learned. It needs to start with the kids. If someone has been doing something legally and to them ethical for 30 years, eventhough it may not be ethical to you, I really don't think you are going to change this person by saying something. They are doing what they know and were taught. Be it ethical or not, it is their call. We can attempt to enlighten people, but chances are we are not going to change them. All the attempt at change does is cause anger. Look what it did on a simple fishing forum amongst people who share a common passion.

I have no side on this matter.....I do what I feel is right for me as others do for themselves. A violation, sure, call DNR or whoever it is in your state, but to question a persons ethics without knowing from which they came just doesn't seem right. It doesn't hurt to try and talk with someone, just don't try to talk at them. Sure it helps to teach someone a different way of looking at things, but in the end it is up to that individual to decide. We all know, change comes from within.

Yes, we have multiple groups out there...recreational/sportsmen/fishermen/commerical/slobs. All do things differently depending on what they call themselves.

Remember, it is America...we all have a right to be offended.

DMS #525
OBPA


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## OBX_Nomad (Mar 8, 2005)

Here's a PM I just received from Jam, interesting. I guess if you don't agree with his opinion he gets a little testy. ;-) 



If you have a problem with me I sugest you come see me and we can straigten it out.. If not I 'll do a little research and find out who you are ad come see you..It will be very easy.... JAM


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## mikersmith (Nov 7, 2006)

If I have to endure people crossing my lines at a pier or keeping undersized fish I generally ignore it and if it gets on my nerves I move to a different spot. I just prefer to mind my own business and do my fishing without any hastle from others. 

Now if I got a wild hair up my @ss and feel like a fight I'll but in with why don't ya watch where you're throwing your line bud I'm getting fed up with it or ya know what the limit is on that fish and usually that makes for an unpleasant fishing trip. So generally I try to ignore a crossed line or anything else that might make my trip less than enjoyable. 

I've tried it both ways and it's just not worth spoiling the enjoyment I get when I can go fishing. I love to fish just don't get enough time to go fishing and I'm not gonna let anyone make it a bad fishing trip if I can help it. 
I can't control everyone even if I know what they're doing is wrong and sometimes me puttin in my 2 cents certainly aint gonna help with the situation.


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## pier-legend (Jan 14, 2004)

tackdriver said:


> To get back on track:
> 
> As Sarge pointed out, this whole thread was created to talk about *ETHICS* of the fishing public. Not to start a mud-slinging contest.
> 
> ...



....ETHICS!!! Who are you fish-huggers trying to FOOL??
...you approached a man minding his own business and PASSED YOUR OWN PERSONAL, SELFISH.-SELF-SERVING attitude upon him !!!

..and you almost LOST YOUR LITTLE TEMPER..
....(WAH-WAH)..
...did the man in question ..VIOLIATE YOUR SPACE by APPROACHING YOU??..

..JUST ONE "widdle question"...
..Where are your "ETHICS" in that crap??

..NO IT AIN'T ABOUT ETHICS!!! WHAT you IMMIGRANTS want to do is MAKE "YOUR ETHICS" the NEW LAW of the LAND!!!..

..and ANYONE who CALLS you out for it..or doesn't just FALL IN PLACE IN TOTAL AGREEMENT... 
...AIN"T ETHICAL!!..

... and JUST has to be some kind of BACK-COUNTRY SIMPLETON FOOL...

..it AIN'T ABOUT ANY ETHICS ..NEVER HAS BEEN!!!

..it a "ELITIEST" Way of THINKING THAT FUELs the ECO-TERRORIST GROUPS like AUDUBON and DOW....
...YOU PEOPLE want YOUR ETHICS to be the NEW LAW...

...come on now Sarge..how bout it TACKY!!!
..HOW much are you in your YEARLY DONATIONS to the BIRD TERRORIST???

..Where you really from TACKY??
..NEW DORK...NEW JERKSY ..OR PAIN-IN-THE-ASS-LVANIA!!!...
..EVERYONE KNOWS YOUR AN OUT OF STATE IMMIGRANT....moved SOUTH!!!

..."ETHICS"....thats the new BUZZ WORD for TREE HUGGER.....BIRD HUGGERS..and NOW FISH-HUGGERS..
..and the END GOAL is to Rule and Reign over everything that STILL has a HINT of PUBLIC upon it... 
..We just don't THINK its ETHICAL" for ANYONE to KILL A FISH...HUNT AN ANIMAL...or CUT a TREE...

.
...ETHICS...ELITIEST...ENVIRO-TERRORIST...

.SAVE THE BIRDS....SAVE THE FOREST...SAVE THE FISH..
...What you folks really want is..
...SAVE THE EARTH...(FOR US)
...KILL YOURSELVES!! (AND GET OUT OF OUR WAY)

...why did you LIBERAL'S pick a FISHING BOARD??
..MMMM I wonder..
...and NOT A BOATING BOARD EITHER, DID YOU PICK..

...PIER AND SURF....the LAST VESTAGES of MIDDLE CLASS PUBLIC enjoying the OCEANS....

...PUBLIC enjoying the OCEAN!!!...
..we just DON'T THINK THAT ETHICIAL!!!!.

....I may get banned...BUT CRAP LIKE YOU WILL NEVER RUN ME OFF...

....GOOBER says HEY....

...


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## tackdriver (May 3, 2008)




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## tackdriver (May 3, 2008)

Oh yeah and:


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

I think I hear the bell for time out, so eveyone take a chill pill and go fishn I know they are here *cause as I hit enter I am going after some Flatties*

Chill or the thread gets put to sleepy time.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Sorry I had to resort to an analogy near and dear to your heart- but at least you seem to have gotten the point- BTW - putting the term "legally" in quotation marks is what a writer often does when they want to challenge the validity of the use of the word- meaning I also question the "legality" of the whole affair.

Keep in mind- your just as entitled to an opinion on the legality of that issue as another individual is over what they considered a breach of ethics- you can't hide the behind the law when it suits the purpose of telling others to butt out, and then "dis" the law when you don't like it to serve your own agenda. 

Personally I don't think anyone was questioning your ethics- but if you want to run off in a huff over a silly debate- your certainly entitled to that option.







JAM said:


> and since "They" the legal system have closed off beach access "LEGALLY" ya all don't have the right to question whether IT'S RIGHT OR NOT........so nosy people don't question the law- just MYOB
> 
> 
> Back room deal with a bought off Judge... No economic impact study.. No NEPA... No public comment.... Yeah thats legal...
> ...


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Shooter said:


> I think I hear the bell for time out, so eveyone take a chill pill and go fishn I know they are here *cause as I hit enter I am going after some Flatties*
> 
> Chill or the thread gets put to sleepy time.



Sorry Shooter- I was hitting the enter button as your post came up- feel free to delete my post if you wish.

Your right- best to let this one go.


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## Hannibal (Aug 10, 2007)

I can't believe some of the responses here. You'd figure that being a fishing based site, ethics would be of the utmost concern and consideration. I am ashamed to find out that many here share the same philosphies of fishing as those who don't have our commitment to this sport and to the fish were target.

This is a question about ETHICS. NOT what is legal vs illegal. There are lots of examples where things are both unethical and legal.

Hell, in the sister sport of hunting - you are allowed to take a shot that isn't a "good one". Maybe it's long range, maybe you don't have the best shot at the "kill zone" on a buck, etc. It's still legal to take the shot - but is it an ethical choice to do so? 

An avid hunter who is very concious of the SPORT won't take that shot. It's too risky. It just wouldn't be ethical.

Simply put, in both case - legal doens't necessarly mean "right." You can do whatever you want as long as you are legal - doesn't mean I won't think of you as an asshole though.

PS - I bet you guys are the type of people who sue others for 5mph fender benders just because you can get a quick settlement aren't you? Please, don't take offense - it's completel legal to do so ....................


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

Wow....call me unethical, selfish, an FHB..I guess....I'll fill a cooler full of spot and sea mullets when I have an opprotunity and I am targeting them to eat....
Fish I catch will be eaten and possibly shared with family.

I have also been know to throw back fish that is not more than 1 inch over the mandatory size-limit or I will not eat.

Folks, the bottom line is it is our responsibilty as stewards of the sea to police ourselves. Think it's what my parents called integrity.

I am not always the sharpest pencil in the bunch, but I know that the only thing ya truley own and have to respect is your family name.
Tarnish the only thing ya own, and ya ain't got nothing!


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## Hannibal (Aug 10, 2007)

Nserch4Drum said:


> Wow....call me unethical, selfish, an FHB..I guess....I'll fill a cooler full of spot and sea mullets when I have an opprotunity and I am targeting them to eat....
> Fish I catch will be eaten and possibly shared with family.


Maybe you've mispoken or I've misunderstood you - but catching a cooler full of fish to eat and/or share with the family isn't unethical or selfish ....... it's a good day of fishing with a reward to show for it.

The issue as I understand it (from this example) is catching a cooler of fish with no intention of eating them and some feeling it's OK just because you can (it's legal).


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

Hannibal said:


> Maybe you've mispoken or I've misunderstood you - but catching a cooler full of fish to eat and/or share with the family isn't unethical or selfish ....... it's a good day of fishing with a reward to show for it.
> 
> The issue as I understand it (from this example) is catching a cooler of fish with no intention of eating them and some feeling it's OK just because you can (it's legal).




just a little sacarsm. have I filled a cooler full of fish? yup.....do I enjoy hauling and cleaning a cooler load of fish? nope, but if I want to eat, you gotta do what you gotta do.

So do I have a right to keep a cooler-full of legal fish? yes. Is it wrong to keep a cooler-full of legal fish with no intentions of eating or sharing the catch? IMHO,Yes. 

My point is having the integrity to make those choices. Would I frown on folks that keep legal fish that they have no intentions to eat or share...sure...but that is my opinion and my stance. I'm not one to publicly judge anyone's intentions, nor jump on a soap box to call out those folks. If what they did is within the rules then fine... If they can lay in that bed..so be it.

again, in this age of beach closures and the restriction of fishing access...the days of filling up a cooler and enjoying a fish fry may be days gone bye.....

But fer me....if I aint eatin' it....its going back in the water.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

If you gave me a range of topics and asked me to point out the ones likely to start a firestorm, a thread saying it's wrong to catch fish only to throw them in the trash would have been at the bottom of my list. I can't wrap my head around the fact that this is even remotely controversial.

I don't make it a habit of preaching to strangers, so you'll never hear me telling someone it's wrong to kill more than they can eat. I mind my own business. But according to the definition some folks have thrown out, thinking you shouldn't waste a resource makes you a radical environmentalist/treehugger/whatever name you want to throw out.


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## jcreamer (Mar 6, 2001)

Sgt_Slough said:


> After reading _that_ I feel the most eloquent rebuttal I could compose could not further prove my point. You are not worthy of a moment's attention from real sportsmen except to point to you as an example of what not to be or how to conduct yourself in public (and to stay in school).
> 
> So, I'll just acknowledge that I have read your post and it shall stand in all its glory without any further comment from me . . .


Thank you. All of this drama and nothing can be done about it anyway.
What ever we feel about it ( I think he was wrong) he was in the right legally. I keep just enough fish for me (wife hates fish) and if I catch more I will give them away. if no one wants them I will put them back in. How many people have gotten home late and after cleaning had a couple fish left over. If no one wanted them and you did not want to finish cleaning them what did you do? Same thing applies. I have done this but only onceor twice. From then on I just keep what I want to clean.
It may not be the best thing but it is the same thing, The man was legally within his rights regardless of what he did. He is gone and probably never heard of pier and surf so what should we start calling each other names and causing hard feelings. :fishing:


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

Just something to throw a monkey wrench into the works "I caught fish today and yup they are gonna be eatten shortly"


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## OBX_Nomad (Mar 8, 2005)

Shooter, I just finished prepping several Spanish and they're ready to hit the grill. Going to wash them down with a Corona, or two. 

The reason why I have them to eat tonight is because someone thought to take care of the resource rather than throw it a dumpster just because it was legal.


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## Lip Ripper (Dec 8, 2003)

shooter, i mean you fish hugger, why couldnt you just let it die. now i have to throw in my .02

like was said earlier, how is it even possible that someone thinks it is ethical to catch fish, knowing that you will be throwing them away?

keep only what is going to be used, throw the rest back. and by "used" i do not mean fertilizer, or something stupid like that.

and if you think its ok to keep legal fish just to throw away, *COME SEE ME*, and ill strap your ass to a chair and make you re-read every one of FA's posts.


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## Freddrum (May 19, 2000)

*This should go down as the worst thread ever.*

:--|


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## lil red jeep (Aug 17, 2007)

Lip Ripper said:


> and if you think its ok to keep legal fish just to throw away, *COME SEE ME*, and ill strap your ass to a chair and make you re-read every one of FA's posts.


Now we're getting someplace! That's funny!


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## OBX_Nomad (Mar 8, 2005)

After reading some of the posts condoning the waste of a valuable resource in this thread I'm beginning to think FA wasn't as bad as I thought. . . . WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## 13lbflounder (May 4, 2008)

Fish Huggers.  :beer: lol.


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

yeah that is funny.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Holy Open Forum Batman....opcorn::beer:.....


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Fish Huggin Bas%$#ds, the new order of FHB


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

AirDown said:


> Fish Huggin Bas%$#ds, the new order of FHB


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*No huff*

Just done with internet fisherman, like you surf cat if ya want to be a douche>>>>>>>JAM

Flea delet my account want nothing to do with this site asked ya private now I will ask ya public..... Nice GREEENEY GROWER ya got here>>>>>>>>

No OBX DOUCHE BAG if yA want to call names I will find out who you are just to level the playing feild ...No therats or nothing, but if !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you can talk the talk you can walk the walk ...

DELETE MY ACCOUNT FLEA.....

Done like stripers online .... Enjoy POSERS

JAM


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)




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## OBX_Nomad (Mar 8, 2005)

Jam, your problem with SOL and P&S is that folks here aren't going to agree with you just because you work at RDT. Here they realize that a person doesn't know it all just because they work at a tackle shop or make a custom rod or two. Then as soon as you lose a verbal dispute you want to come over and put a whoopin' on some one. 

Just so everyone here knows; the PM you sent has been saved. The KDH Police have also been informed. They're taking this seriously and so are we. So, if you want to continue this be aware that we're willing to endure the consequences if you are.


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## jcreamer (Mar 6, 2001)

JAM said:


> Just done with internet fisherman, like you surf cat if ya want to be a douche>>>>>>>JAM
> 
> Flea delet my account want nothing to do with this site asked ya private now I will ask ya public..... Nice GREEENEY GROWER ya got here>>>>>>>>
> 
> ...


Why quit because of a disagreement. 
I did and did not post for a couple years. I would express my point and then when people started coming up with smart remarks and things that were over my head I would get upset. 

I actually missed this site and like to look at things now with a more adult attitude.

Jam
I enjoyed some of your posts and why quit because of an argument. 
On the internet everyone becomes a foot taller, an expert in everything, and sometimes a karate expert. (Wait till you see them in person).
Agreed a lot of the people on here do walk the walk and talk the talk.

Sorry for rambling but I do not see dropping out because of a disagreement.

John


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

JAM said:


> Just done with internet fisherman, like you surf cat if ya want to be a douche>>>>>>>JAM
> 
> Flea delet my account want nothing to do with this site asked ya private now I will ask ya public..... Nice GREEENEY GROWER ya got here>>>>>>>>
> 
> ...


If you don't want to post here, then don't post. Your account will go dormant.

As to the low opinion you have of P&S, I'm sorry the fact that not everyone agrees with you has put you in such a tizzy. People have a right to their opinion, so long as they keep it civil.


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

jcreamer said:


> Why quit because of a disagreement.
> I did and did not post for a couple years. I would express my point and then when people started coming up with smart remarks and things that were over my head I would get upset.
> 
> I actually missed this site and like to look at things now with a more adult attitude.
> ...


Good point.


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## 13lbflounder (May 4, 2008)

opcorn:


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## Al Kai (Jan 8, 2007)

jcreamer said:


> Why quit because of a disagreement.
> I did and did not post for a couple years. I would express my point and then when people started coming up with smart remarks and things that were over my head I would get upset.
> 
> I actually missed this site and like to look at things now with a more adult attitude.
> ...


This is how I feel about it also.
I wouldnt leave over a disagreement this small.

We are all different, we all have strong views
and we are all Fishermen and Women.


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## Lipyourown (May 11, 2005)

I'll wade into the drama and say throwing away fish that you caught because you don't eat fish and can't give them away is indefensible. You either respect the resource and the sport or you don't. Skin mounts today aren't much different IMO.

We don't know if the guy had illegal fish in his cooler but we do know he was gonna through them all away if he couldn't give them away. He might be the type that just has to prove with hard evidence that even a moron can fill a cooler ... or he could very well be mentally challenged and you can say "if you keep too many today you won't have any to catch the next, heres what I do...".

Where's the peace pipe? It's hot out there.


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## Blloyd (Oct 26, 2004)

I'm sorry, but after reading all the threats that Jam has put on here I really wouldn't offer any type of encouragement/excuse for him to stay.


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## scoobe (Jan 2, 2007)

Is it winter already? 

Let's just go fishing :fishing:


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