# ORV Access Banned in Cape Hatteras



## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

This ruling came down today. I don't know if it's wrong to link to other boards, but given the gravity of the information, it shouldn't be a problem.

http://www.reddrumtackle.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10996

You need to read this and you need to respond. This could be the beginning of the end folks.


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

i learned of this in the car. I called EVERYONE in my phone book.....


YOUR TURN.... if you do not fight now dont come and waste oxygen WHEN we get this thing down.

come on guys and gals lets do this for all of us, and for the ones who came before and the children i would like to take there one day....


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

NTKG said:


> i learned of this in the car. I called EVERYONE in my phone book.....
> 
> 
> YOUR TURN.... if you do not fight now dont come and waste oxygen WHEN we get this thing down.
> ...


Well said Neil, time to send off another batch of e and snail mails.


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## Fly Wacko (Aug 8, 2005)

*Yup...*

Time to get nasty.

Neil, Children ??? Are you engaged again ???

FW


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## baitslingin (Jul 31, 2005)

forget the emails. get a couple thousands 4 wheel deals together and go make a pharkin point. they aint gonna cite everyone.


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## Dyhard (Oct 24, 2002)

*All Closed Down?*

You Are Saying The Entire Hatteras Island Is Shut Down To Orv?
I Cannot Tell You 'how Bad This Is'


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

Dyhard said:


> You Are Saying The Entire Hatteras Island Is Shut Down To Orv?
> I Cannot Tell You 'how Bad This Is'



READ THE LINK


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

baitslingin said:


> a couple thousands 4 wheel deals together and go make a pharkin point. they aint gonna cite everyone.



difficult to coordinate. hard to do when the ramps are blocked...

lets do the RIGHT thing.


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## Sea2aeS (Jan 7, 2005)

I would imagine it also includes ocracoke island, and above oregon inlet as well....... but thats just me.. I might be wrong so if I am please set me straight..... 

Neil... why have a mass of 4wds down there.... Logic tells me its better off going to their turf to do it... Since they want the place shut down soo bad, were gonna have to go somewhere else.


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

Sea2aeS said:


> I would imagine it also includes ocracoke island, and above oregon inlet as well....... but thats just me.. I might be wrong so if I am please set me straight.....
> 
> Neil... why have a mass of 4wds down there.... Logic tells me its better off going to their turf to do it... Since they want the place shut down soo bad, were gonna have to go somewhere else.


Cape Hatteras National Seashore basically is where hwy 12 starts........ so that includes OI and the other OI.

I dont think its a good idea to have a mass of 4wds down there. we should fight a legal fight in a legal place in legal means. this stage in the game.... i dont think that pissing off FEDERAL judges and such is a great way to help them understand our point


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## baitslingin (Jul 31, 2005)

good luck with that


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## Dr. Bubba (Nov 9, 1999)

Be Cool.

Like Eakes says on his post. Let cooler heads prevail. This technicality won't hold up for long. If you have plans down there any time in the next 6 months, I'd let you Congressfolks know about it....


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

baitslingin said:


> forget the emails. get a couple thousands 4 wheel deals together and go make a pharkin point. they aint gonna cite everyone.


People, making threats and acting like a bunch of wild animals will do nothing but give the bird huggers more ammo against us. Yea I see thousands of us storming the beach and busting threw road blocks and every judge seeing that on the news and going YUP they are nuts and don't need to be on public beaches and parks.

We can take the battle to them so much better threw OBPA, NCBBA and letters and phone calls to our elected officals when they see we are well meaning and not half nut wackos.


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## RedskinFan228 (Jun 28, 2004)

Can someone post links to our Va reps so we can write to them and send them emails, also the NC reps as well. This really sucks and I was heading down there on Saturday


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

Dr. Bubba said:


> Be Cool.
> 
> Like Eakes says on his post. Let cooler heads prevail. This technicality won't hold up for long. If you have plans down there any time in the next 6 months, I'd let you Congressfolks know about it....



well...there is a striper tourney in December.....


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

Nserch4Drum said:


> well...there is a striper tourney in December.....


and drum tourny in Oct and not to mention the thousands that hit HI for the fall run


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## FishinAddiction (May 9, 2006)

Im headed down to NH on the 18th for the week and plan on spending at least 3 days down at buxton.....or at least that was the plan


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

Just off the phone with someone that is down in Buxton now and they said the beaches as of this moment are still open so pray they stay this way and here is the link to OBPA that is leading the fight. www.obpa.org/


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## Coast'n (Jun 19, 2007)

I read the order and the person was fined $100. I see nothing in the order that mandates that CHNS be closed to ORV traffic. People may be over reacting at this point.


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## FishinAddiction (May 9, 2006)

you may want to re-read it


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

Coast'n said:


> I read the order and the person was fined $100. I see nothing in the order that mandates that CHNS be closed to ORV traffic. People may be over reacting at this point.


You may want to re-read this part.


> By executive order, President Nixon required that the Department of the Interior publish regulations defining specific trails and areas for the use of off-road vehicles "(ORV"). Exec. Order No. 11,644,37 C.F.R. 5 2877 (1972), as amended by Exec. Order No. 11,898,42 Fed. Reg. 26,959 (May 24,2977). The regulations to designate which areas are open to ORV traffic must promote safety for all users, minimize damage to public lands and wildlife, and take into consideration endangered or threatened species. 43 C.F.R 5 8342.1, The designation process
> must include public participation, and include local landowners and other interested parties. Id. 5 8342.2. Once a plan is approved, areas and trails must be clearly identified so that the public will be aware of the applicable limitations. Id Operating a motor vehicle is prohibited except where the Park Service has specifically designated that ORV use is permitted, in accordance with the aforementioned regulations. 30 C.F.R. 4 4.10; 1 8 U.S.C. 5 357 1. *Thus, where the Park Service fails to create a plan for ORV use, ORV is prohibited. CAHA does not have regulations in place to govern ORV traffic. *Consequently, it is also a violation to operate a motor vehicle on Cape Hatteras National Seashore without prior authority and is punishable by up to $5,000.00, six months in prison, or both. 18 U.S.C. § 3571. By permitting unregulated ORV traffic on CAHA,


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## Coast'n (Jun 19, 2007)

"areas and trails must be clearly identified so that the public will be aware of the applicable limitations. Id Operating a motor vehicle is prohibited except where the Park Service has specifically designated that ORV use is permitted."

I have been to the CHNS many times and the trails are marked and closures fenced off. At the bottom of the ruling of USA vs named defendant the individual was fined $100. There was no further elaboration related to beaches being closed to all ORV traffic. Are the beaches closed today?


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## Coast'n (Jun 19, 2007)

If you look at the top of the court order he was charged with operating a vehicle without due care.


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## FAST EDDIE (Nov 14, 1999)

After reading the ruling a few times, a few of my initial thoughts are as follows:

1. This was a criminal trial brought about by an individual who, himself, was driving recklessly and endangering others on the beach. For the judge to extend his ruling beyond the punishment of the violator (Vasile Matei) to a blanket closure of the entire CAHA resource to all ORV usage is too broad in scope. I would like to hear an attorney's point of view on this. Would an appeals court allow such a broad construal to stand, or would they reasonably expect the punishment to be more narrowly defined to the individual and not extended to the entire class (all ORV users)?
2. While all of us on these boards believe, to varying extents, in the preservation of our natural resources (not withstanding the continuing conflict and debate regarding bird and turtle closures), the Judge's diatribe to these areas has no place in this legal ruling. The defendant was not charged with violating closed areas. Nor was it indicated that he actually drove over the dune (as I have read comments to such on other boards). The brief stated he, "*attempted to drive a large four-wheel drive vehicle off the beach and into an area adjacent to the dunes, ultimately intending to exit on the ramp*." Plain and simple, this is a reckless driving case and nothing more, based on the testimony cited.
3. The courts had, just days prior, approved an interim management plan. By all accounts then, is there not a Plan in place? And even if there was not a written plan, that has been collaboratively developed by NPS, USFWS, OBPA, et al, could it not be argued that a plan still exists by nature of the NPS guidelines and laws, the signage posted at all access points, the signage and markings designating nest closures, etc? Somewhere it is written that the beach speed limit is 25 mph (although most drive well below that limit), firearms are illegal, no camping, no public intoxication, no driving on dunes, no entering roped off areas, etc., etc. This, coupled with the access ramps (maintained by NPS and others), sounds very much like we have regulations in place to govern ORV traffic.
4. The dis-Honorable Judge Boyle concludes, in his brief, that, "*without an ORV plan in place, the Park Service is without the manpower to enforce the rules in place......*" - WOW!! right there he states that there are rules in place!! Sounds like we have a plan. Further his attempt to correlate Park Service resource to the existence of a plan is laughable and without merit.

It may take some time, but this is going to be over-turned.


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## Tinybaum (Mar 8, 2004)

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1605849/

Go there and take the poll.

Tiny


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

Tinybaum said:


> http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1605849/
> 
> Go there and take the poll.
> 
> Tiny


Thanks TB.

Just finished talking to Ron Veneluava...VB's local congressman and family friend.....he is brewing up some suggetsions.


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

Tinybaum said:


> http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1605849/
> 
> Go there and take the poll.
> 
> Tiny


wow.... almost 50/50..... thats just fing great


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## C.Salp (May 30, 2002)

we're getting our butts handed to us...
 
clear your cookies in the browser you don't use much (in my case it's Safari)....vote again...and again...

CS


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## SkunkApe (Dec 9, 2006)

C.Salp said:


> we're getting our butts handed to us...
> 
> clear your cookies in the browser you don't use much (in my case it's Safari)....vote again...and again...
> 
> CS


You have to consider that this Poll is out of Raliegh. Those folks don't frequent the Outer Banks as much as VA or MD / DE folks. Inland individuals don't have as much admeration for the beachs as the folks that REALLY respect that area, like some that live's at the beach like me. And yes, I have e-mailed the appropiate lawmakers. Bomb' on inland NC Folk....Give the Lawmaker's HELL!!!! THEY DON'T linsten to VA Bitcher"s. 

Matt


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## Crashman65 (May 29, 2007)

I wonder how long this will last?

"Cape Hatteras park officials, however, are not enforcing the order while they try to get an interpretation of Boyle's ruling."

Cast my vote "no" but was surprised at the poll results as well. What we run into down here in VA and NC is a bunch of tree hugging liberals from up north who have transplanted down here due to a low cost of living and an availabilty of good jobs in new industry. They believe the government is supposed to tell us what we can do and where we can do it. And that the government knows best. Similiar results when you poll about firearms in VA. We are not the conservative good old boy states we used to be, particularly in metro areas.

I'm planning an offshore trip the 27th out of OI and was going to spend the rest of the weekend surf fishing. We'll see... might be a long walk.

This cannot be good for H.I. local business if the ruling is not overturned and the NPS must enforce the law.


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## RedskinFan228 (Jun 28, 2004)

NTKG said:


> wow.... almost 50/50..... thats just fing great


The question was "do you agree with the judges decision to close the beaches until a plan is in place..."


The "No" vote is now way ahead


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## redneckranger (Jan 19, 2006)

Crashman65 said:


> I wonder how long this will last?
> 
> "Cape Hatteras park officials, however, are not enforcing the order while they try to get an interpretation of Boyle's ruling."
> 
> ...


Its the same allover the South I am originally form TN and the same thing happens there too we need to take a stand against this sh** do like our southern forefathers did against both the british and the american governments and commit acts of civil disobiendence


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