# What do you all recommend?



## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

I was looking threw some of the mmebers pictures and noticed a lot of guys using baitcasters on there surf rods. I have always used baitcasters for bass fishing but never really thought to use them for the surf. Is this so it is easier to throw and retrieve lures or is it just preference? Could someone shed some light


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

There are many threads on this board that cover this topic. Not so long ago (January or December) there was a thread entitled spinning vs conventional. That being said this is my first year to try a conventional reel on a surf pole. Many anglers swear by conventionals for distance and the supple drag and fish clicker that so many reels posess. I have also heard that its what you are comfortable with.

I do recommend researching your reel choice however. It pays to get the right one for you. I took a safe route, I chose the Penn 525 mag (also a non mag version) to place on my surf poles. As soon as the weekend weather breaks I'll be practicing.

All I can say is that I have witnessed guys tossing conventional reels and I was amazed at how far it was going.


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

I have been looking at them, What type line capacity I am I looking for here?


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## catman (May 28, 2001)

Aside from the accuracy and distance you get with a conventional reel I like it because you get better control over the drag. That being said I like the lever drags above all other conventionals. It puts you in control.

Up to 3 years ago everything I owned with the exception of my trolling stuff was spinning. Now I'm just about 100% conventional. I still use ultra light spinning for freshwater fishing. Sure there's a learning period but that can be fun.


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## shaggy (Jun 18, 2003)

Penn 525MAG holds about 275 yards of 15 pound test. The 30SHV holds 295 yards of 20 pound.

Hope this helps.

Have Jeep will travel


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## Fishbreath (Nov 11, 2004)

Justin, I can ditto what the guys said here. I used to be exclusively spinning reels for my surf stuff but have since gone almost exclusively to baitcasters for a couple of the reasons posted. 

I still enjoy throwing the spinning combo but the luxury of having the star drag and the clicker are a big plus not to mention the fact that on cold blustery days, it is easier on the finger.  

As for good reels, try out your buddies reels first to see what ya like. The 525 Mag throws like a champ, the SL30sh is very dependable and (ok guys don't snicker) the ABU CS or CT is a fine casting reel but their drag system needs to be upgraded to carbon and smoothies. 

It all depends on what you're looking for....

FB


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

When looking thru the reels one thing I am looking for is line capacity. Now a lot of them are around 200/220 of 17 lb. now is that enough? I mean if you put 20 lb on there its even less line. I haven't really caught any huge fish sur fishing but if I hook up wth a good one is there any possibity it will spool me? I guess what I am trying to ask is that is 200 yds enough, I know it is 2 football fields worth. But if your are already 50 yds out with your cast is a big fish able to run you out of line, for example a big red. I heard they pull like a damn horse.


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## fishbone4_14_74 (Feb 7, 2005)

I see another Fisherman is wanting to step over to the dark side..

If so ,, best beginner reel is the Dawia Slosh 30 once you have this reel if yoiu decited to buy one ,,, first and formost open the clicker side up by taking off the 3 screws and place the 2 red breaks on the break pin,,, you can adjust the breaks as you learn like 1 red 1 white ,,, 2 whites or none,,, but if this is your first time i will say use both reds first then spool your reel up with 17 lb suffix or what line your comphy then run a rod lenth and a half with a 50 pound shocker ,,,, looking for 18 to 20 feet of the 50 pound shocker line tied on with a albright or blood knot then line up so your ready to cast,,,, then adjust the tension knob on the right beside the handle of the reel and where the drag wheel is tighen it down and cast ,,, then after every other cast losen the knob until you feel your comphy and your set ,,,,, these reels a great for a begginer ,,,, easy to work on ,,,, and damn near bullet proof,,, best rod for these reels are the 12' ticas extra heavy will sling 8nbait with no problems and you can get the whole combo for 190.00 here at the bait shack,,, and myself also like he 525 mags from penn that is a casting reel there once tamied and can be handled but might take a lil more time to learn than the slosh 30 ,,, if you go to the slosh 20 do all the above just change ya line out to 15 lb and a 40 lb shocker. and put it on a 11'6" tica ,,, great for tossin metals and bait they are,,,,, i myself have caught manyu big fish on these 3 combos with ease. Good luck


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

I am not trying to sound dumb, but how different are these type reels from regular bass baitcasters? I know they aren't totally the same but are they somewhat close?. I have about 8 of them, I know I wouldn't use them for this application but are the functions the same?


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## catman (May 28, 2001)

If you have good quality bass reels the main difference is that one is for fresh water and won't take the continued use in salt water. Even a good washing after each use it will eventually corrode. They both fish the same. I fish for stripers just the same as I fish for LM bass when fishing shallow water.


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

Ok I have been looking around a little, I know you guys were preaching some reels because they are good reels and are good for beginers. What do you all thing about the Shimano Corvalus or Cardiff? Also the Daiwa Saltist and Quantum Cabo 20 pt? Anybody have or used these reels? See I currently have 3 setups but they are low end, 2 Quantums and a shoremaster all spinning combos. What do you guys think about those reels


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## catman (May 28, 2001)

I have two Quantum Cabo PT 31's and two Calcutta 251's (all left hand retreive) set up on 7' one piece casting rods. The rods are custom made and have extra long cork handles, fast action tips, med/heavy, and handle lures 3/8 to 1 1/2 oz. The Cabo's are excellent reels with ceramic drags and cast like a dream. The Calcuttas are in a class of their own. I know it sounds like a lot $ but actually it isn't. My friend makes the rods and I can get them for less than some off the self rods. I got a good deal on the Calcuttas so they were actually cheaper than the Cabo's. At any rate buy the best your wallet will allow. In the long run you're much better off with good equipment.


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## TRIGGERFISH (May 21, 2001)

Do any of you use Power-Pro on your conventionals? I have it on my lure rod and won't go back to mono,but I'm thinking about getten at least one conventional setup for big rock,reds & blacks. I was told(by someone from P&S) if I do get an conventional that it was good to practice with 15lb.mono until I got use to the setup,what do you think.


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## fishbone4_14_74 (Feb 7, 2005)

if your trying to get use to anything ,,, i would use what you would be useing all the time ,, after a pierod of time your body will be trained to it,, even when sling lead as i only throw an 8 oz but up there you will be always throwin a 6 oz i dont mix things up per set ups on rods and reels like i will always throw 8nbait on my 17 lb line with 50 lb shocker on my slosh 30 with a 12 foot tica,,, then i will always throw my 20's or 525's with 6nbait on 11'6" tica with 15 lb test and 40 lb shocker unless im sling metal with the 525 then its a whole different thing there ,,,, J.M.H.O


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## catman (May 28, 2001)

I have PP on all of my conventionals with the exception of two trolling reels that I use for my way, way back lines. Those lines always run surface lures plus I need to see those lines to gauge my turns. For those I run Ande Hi-Vis yellow. It also lets other boats know the confines of my lines.

The PP is particularily important when fishing deep over a wreck for tog and sea bass. You can almost feel the fish breathing.


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## Surfbass (Feb 15, 2006)

hey justin, im pretty familiar with all these reels, personally im partial to the shimano calcutta 400bsv for all around surfcasting, penns are a little too heavy, also a bit overrated in my opinion, if you cant spend the money on the calcutta, dont be afraid of an abu garcia, a 6600 c4 is a good basic way to go, some guys claim that the levelwind cuts the distance by a certain percentage, but if you are a beginner surfcaster its really nothing to worry about

not sure about the overall quality of the corvalus for dependable saltwater performance, the cardiff is a good reel but i dont believe that they make it bigger then a 300 size, which really isnt enough...the daiwa saltist is made for trolling and you might think its a little heavy for surfcasting

go with whatever you are comfortable with, as long as it gets the bait in the water you should be OK


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

I was looking on Bass Pro and I found a Cardiff in the 400 series http://www.basspro.com/servlet/cata...arClassCode=1&hvarSubCode=1&hvarTarget=browse . One thing what is a non-disengaging levelwind and clicker? I am not trying to sound too new this whole saltwater fishing thing but what is a levelwind and clicker. And after that line cap on the cardiff is 250yds/ 14# I'd prolly throw 17-20 so about 200 yds will fit, is that enough?


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## oldsalt (May 6, 2003)

Mine is a Penn 980 Mag 400 Yds 20# Best reel ever made.


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

Any help to my post above?


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## BigJeff823 (Oct 14, 2002)

Yeah I use braid on almost all my reel except the ones I use for Crappie fishin.Using braid gives you an advantage;I've also noiced that the mono has backlashes EVery bit as much as the braided line but the it seems like braid is easier to work with when picking out the backlashes.The baitcasing reels used for Surf Bishing aint to much diffrent than those streamlined ones used for serious Bass Fishing in Freshwater.I noticed on the Surf Fishing Reels like the Abu Garcia Ambassadurs that the levelwind and the spool work together as the Bass Fishing variety reels dont.Have picked up a reel like some of those Quantum Frshwater reels and noticed how the spool will rotate on a cast but the levelwind never moves.However;it will still make a good cast when you cast.I think a Abu Garcia Ambassadur or Big Game reels are perfect for a person just getting started when you get more experainced a reel without the levelwind might be to your liking.If I got a reel without a levelwind I would SURELY use a Penn 525Mag cause I love that reel the size of it makes it easy to move your thumb side to side when you reel in.Sorry bout the long post as I always try to keep it short.


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

So to make a long story short a level wind is the part in front of the spool that makes the line wind on evenly? I have many nice bass reels (which I am not planning on using I am just using as example) like the Daiwa Veinto and Sol which I just picked up season. The only real difference is that on the saltwater type the levelwind moves with the cast as well as the retrieve, right? If I am used to bass baitcasters do you think I can handle a conventional with a levelwind?


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## Surfbass (Feb 15, 2006)

justin- you are seriously overthinking this situation. ive been bass fishing for years as well. surf baitcasting outfits are literally just bigger verisons of bass gear. almost all baitcasting reels work in the same manner. if you can cast a bass rod, you should have no problem with a surf rod, other then getting used to casting more weight. as for levelwinds and non levelwinds, the levelwind is simply the roller which guides the line evenly onto the reel, most surfcasters prefer a reel without the levelwind in order to allow us to cast heavy shock leaders without interference from the levelwind. reels with levelwinds are fine as well, whatever suits your preference.


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

Sufbass_ Thank you that was the answer I was looking for, I was just trying to figure it out, and for the interference with the levelwind I am only planning on using a rod length leader, there is no need for a 2 rod length leader. So it won't be a problem.


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## Green Cart (May 14, 2002)

*Keep On Reading, Studying and Learning*

It is very dangerous to powercast without using shock leaders as you have to cast heavier sinker and bait setups compared with casting plastic worms for largemouth bass.  That is why many of us prefer to not use levelwind. Also, you should use shock leaders for both conventional and spinning reels. Shock leaders should be used regardless of running line. The only remaining point is whether or not the shock leader should be limited to mono. Some say that braided line can be used for shock leader, but I shudder as braided line are not stretchable and thus can snap from shock of casting. 

Also, the biggest difference between using fresh water reels and salt water reels is just that - fresh or salt. Generally speaking, you step up in line weight, reel capacity, reel drag, rod power, etc because the fish is just bigger.   Once you catch a cownose ray, you will see what I mean.


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

I always use a shock leader, but I have heard some guys talking about using a Two rod length leader. I don't see the need for that much, inform me if I am wrong. Isn't it hard to get the line spread evenly back over the spool as you bring it in, especially with a nice size fish. I just see it being had to get it spread back out. Now I throw fishfinder rigs,lures and others but inform me if I am doing it wrong but I sometimes tie a 3-way with weight snap and then a rod 1/2 rod length leader? Any of you throw that ?


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## Green Cart (May 14, 2002)

*You Need A Long Shock Leader*

The way I do it, the shock leader should be long enough to wrap around the reel five times, then go up to the tip and then down to the reel - so that is translated to about 2 rod lengths. The point here is that if the shock leader is not on the reel while power casting, then the shock leader is not a shock leader at all. It still can be a leader for the purpose of preventing abrasions, but it is no longer a shock leader. On the other hand, you don't want to make the shock leader too long because you may get another problem of the shock leader knot getting caught in the guide. The general rule is 10 lbs shock leader for every ounce you cast. I stop at 50 lbs shock leader because (1) the shock leader is overrated anyway by the manufacturer - 50 lbs is really more like 65 lbs, (2) usually I don't use more than 6 oz sinker, and (3) I am not that a powerful caster that I would break 80 lb shock leader  

Justinfusch01 - You just opened a new can of worms by bringing up the 3 way  You will soon be getting flamed by other fishermen bringing up fish finder rig. For now, I am just going to fade away 

Justinfusch01 - the shock leader is not spread evenly on the reel - so what! you are talking about only 5 turns. However, when reeling in back the line, make sure that the shock leader knot is "parked" at one side of the reel, (preferably the left side if you are righthanded) so that when you make the heavo cast, the knot will not cut a groove in your thumb.


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

Thanks for the info greencart, but if I am going to get flamed by my lack of knowelge and trying to learn from people that have been doing the sport for much long then me well then, they are all a bunch of hippocrits as far as I am concerned because they weren't born with all the techniques. So Screw them!


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## shaggy (Jun 18, 2003)

WOW justinfisch01,

Damn you can be harsh. Me also use the two rod lenghts and five turns onto the reel. Now, don't subscribe to the 10 pound test for each ounce of lead, and stay strictly with a 40 pound shock leader, 15 pound mainline and regularly cast anywhere from 4 ounces to ten ounces of lead plus bunker.

Your comment:

_"as I am concerned because they weren't born with all the techniques"_, may be able to be taken as a compliment, since many of us watched, listened and learned from better, more experienced and successfull fishermen than ourselves.

But a couple of things you say, well, may just have you out in the sand, wondering about hook size, bait choice, rods and reels, because, to call us:

_"a bunch of hippocrits"_ 

and then to say:

_"Screw them"_

you might just find us hippocrits not interested in being screw by anyone but our spouses, will end up ignoring your "looking for information" requests.

Use your little bit of shock leader, let a decent striper or drum get into the wash, and watch when you don't have a few turns of the stronger line on your reel, the fish make a run back to deeper water, at the same time the wash is heading back out, and snap!, fish gone, and you shaking your head and wonder what went wrong.

See, once you get a few turns of the stronger line on, you are usually standing in the water, and can back up to keep the pressure on the fish, and if the run or wash decides to head back east, you can move back toward the water, no shock, 15 pound test, knot, too many variables to fail, light line has an abrasion, or shock knot not perfect, guarantee chances are you lose the fish.

Just my two cents.

have Jeep will travel


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

You are correct! Some people have superiority complexes ... usually they are trying to overcompensate for the lack of something in their life. However I must admit that the members of this site have been very helpful and I have not seen too many instances of flaming a fellow fisherman for asking questions. Just keep asking. Some may say RTFM or in other words read the f**kin manual. That usually means go google it or do research within the existing threads of the boards.

tight lines and calm seas!


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

As far as my comments about if you read carefully, I said some that would flame me for asking a question can go screw themselves. I have expanded my horizons to surf fishing and I am just trying to learn a little bit, if someone asked me about bass fishing I would take it that way, someone not knowing much asking someone they thought had a lot of good info to share, I don't think I was being thaharsh one here, and another time I am not clogging the board when theres fishing reports that should be post, its cold not many fish and just a kid tryin learn.


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## shaggy (Jun 18, 2003)

And most of us here can and do try and "teach", but surf fishermen and women, for the most, are a humble bunch, realizing we may have a little to teach, but alot to learn also. Ask, and it will be answered for the most, and if I indeed read your post wrong, my bad, accept my apology.

But, then again, (and yeah, I have also been guilty of not doing this), try and take as much negativity out of yer post as possible, so there doesn't appear to be a grey line.

Have Jeep will travel


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

Shaggy- no hard feelins I am just tryin learn and look look like a dum a$$ out there, that all


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## shaggy (Jun 18, 2003)

Nah, only time you are really a dumba$$, is when you have a question and don't ask! 

Have Jeep will travel


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## Fishbreath (Nov 11, 2004)

Justin,

Keep asking your questions. As Cygnus and Shaggy both said, there is a lot to learn here and a lot of fine good knowledgable people. I know I learn something new every day I log into P&S and that is no exaggeration. 

As for the medium of email and posts, well, tone of voice or intent is not always accurately reflected on a website or mail and that is why we try and keep it upbeat and positive with helpful stuff thrown in. Bottom line, keep asking, that's how you learn. Tight lines!

FB


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## Green Cart (May 14, 2002)

*Perhaps It Is My Fault ...*

Justinfisch01

I was just teasing you when I said that you would be flamed for bringing up 3 way. What I really mean is that you will get some other fishermen come out of the woodwork who will try to convince you that the fish finder is better than 3 way. That way you will also learn that there is more than one rig type  

You did not offend me, but we all need to be careful with our tone. Also, sometimes we have to be careful with what we say because it is so easy to have misunderstandings flare up big time.


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

My comments were not ment in a malicious way at all, just if someone was going to make fun of a question then I don't care to talk with them. No hard feelins towards anyone! You are right, typing can't reflect the expression in what you are trying to say so if I sounded harsh, Sorry, Ok thats over. See this is what I do all day at work is look at fishing stuff on the net, Wonderful job huh? While eating luch I looked at EVERY pic in the members gallery, trying to see pics of people setups as far as rods,reels, line, leader hook you all all that. While typing I mean I sound like a complete rookie, but I have caught quite a few fish from the surf, I just have always used spinning gear but I want to up my tackle with some better stuff to handle the big ones. I would like to see people complete setup if someone has a pic I would like to see it ,if no no prob.


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## Green Cart (May 14, 2002)

*Believe it or not but*

Justinfisch01

I use spinning equipment even though I have conventional equipment. Actually, most of my surf rods are spinning, but I can and do use conventional reels on them. Like you, I got carried away with all the fishing forums that I thought the conventional reel was the way to go. I bought into it for a while until I convinced myself that it was really up to the individual.

Overall, I prefer spinning gear. The most important argument for using conventional reel is that it casts further. It used to be true, but not anymore. Look At Mark Edwards and the NJ P&S Coordinator Sgt Slough. Mark is one of the world distance casters using spinning gear, and Sgt's reel is to drool over. I have other reasons for preferring spinning reel such as conventional reel requiring too much babying such as worrying about magnets, brakes, & oil and getting backlashes with conventional reel no matter what others say.

Anyway, I have upgraded my spinning stuff to heavy duty surf fishing. Also, they have come out with baitrunner spinning reels which take place of conventional reel clicker and free spool lever. However, they need to come up with more better and lighter baitrunner spinning reels.

Actually, the spinner users outnumber conventional users - probably 99 to 1.


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

Thanks a lot Green Cart, I have a 3 spinning combos from 9-13 feet, they just aren't the best, Couple of cheapos, Like a Quantum Blue runner combo, I mean it works, but I am not sure it would hold up to the big boys, nor is it that great for throwing lures. I have learned a lot so far since I have been on here. I will continue to use them, caught tons of blues on them not to mention a Huge ray which I am not bragging about but I mean it hauled that big boy in. I just want two nice baitcaster setups b/c I am trying to intro. surf fishing to a friedn and he only knows spinning reel period. So those can be loners when he goes with me. Thanks for the info, it was great!


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## justinfisch01 (Feb 19, 2006)

Last Question for a while....for all of you that use baitcasters on your surf rods, are you putting them on rods mad for spinning reels?


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## Surfbass (Feb 15, 2006)

no way...they make casting rods for a reason


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## RiverOtter (Jun 30, 2005)

justinfisch01 said:


> Last Question for a while....for all of you that use baitcasters on your surf rods, are you putting them on rods mad for spinning reels?


I don't...but some do. I put baitcasters on casting rods, and spinning reels on spinning rods. With a factory rod it might not make a real lot of difference because the spine may or may not be in the right spot, but they're supposed to be set up with the spine in different locations depending on whether it's used for spinning or casting (or at least that's what I'm told...I'm not a rodbuilder...yet ).


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

Been there ... done that ... got the birds nest ( a few years back ). Surfbass is correct, they make rods they way they do for a reaosn. There are spinning rods, casting rods, trolling rods ... Rods that are extra hvy (4-10 or 6-12 oz lure) for tossin 8-n-bait on AI, down to 5 foot ultralights for catchin' brim. 

Like any enthusiast about anything you are going to end up with many poles for many different circumstances ... or just because ya like em  My arsenal is not huge my any means and I am JUST starting to add conventional rods to it. I just got an 11' Tica (4-10 oz) to match with my Penn 525 mag. I have have surf poles for piers, heavier ones for AI, and on down the line to spot and bait poles. 

It pays to upgrade your gear as much as you can afford but do NOT forget about your terminal tackle ... especially if ya wanna tackle the mama's and the papa's! Its just as important to have quality snap swivels and hooks as it is the pole. Whats the sense of casting out to the fish if ya can't bring them in? 

Cheapo gear is fine for spot, croaker and most panfish ... but when you step up to ocean stripers, cobia, or chopper blues you will soon see the difference. I learned the hard way (as do most of us eventually)

I also recommend you learn to tie your own rigs and get proficient with knots if you are 'knot' already. =)


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## BigJeff823 (Oct 14, 2002)

Well;I'm not to sure about the shock leader n levelwinds but that what make using braid SUCH A GOOD THING.I never had to worry too much about breakoffs from not using a shock leader;In fact I have casted out 8oz sinkers on 20/6 braid and not any problems with breakoffs.Breakoffs can come from many things other than the line you use or shock leaders. Worn out line(using the same mono line for more than 1 year),line being wrapped around the tip befrore or during the cast,or forgetting to engage the button or bail on the reel berore casting.Anything that has a slight interferance on the inertcia(spell.)as it comes off the reel can cause a break off;throwing in a stiff wind can cause breakoffs as the wind can cause the line to wrapp arround the rod tip right after the cast is let out.To sum it up so I dont have to use as many words breakoffs are comon in the Surfcasting world and no matter what you do you might get a breakoff.


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## catman (May 28, 2001)

Guess I'll take up some space and add my 2 cents. Shock leader lenght - simple, 2 1/2 X the rod length.

BigJeff - I used to think I didn't need leader becausing I use 60# Power Pro. WRONG I grabbed the line one day that had a big rock on the other end. In a nut shell, the rock make a 180 and the PP sliced my hand. 18 stitches later I learned a lesson.


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## Green Cart (May 14, 2002)

*Wow*

Your experience is the worst I have heard - 18 stitches  I have fallen off the stepladder tearing my chest open. It took 16 stitches to sew up the muscles and 18 stitches to close the wound. How did that happen? Well, my stepladder started sinking in the ground, and I jumped off trying to save the paint that I was holding in a bucket in one hand, but unfortunately, I fell down on top of the stepladder leg. No, I did not save the paint.  When did it happen? It was the year that I did not get to go to my prom. No - it was not because I tore my chest open. I burned my leg, and it stunk. That is another story.  

That is the trouble - making the fishing line too strong and making it too thin for our good. That remind me - no wonder people feel more comfortable handling 1/2 inch rope than very thin rope rated for 500 lbs.  That is exactly why it is easy to garrote someone with piano wire, but the ends have to be tied to a broom handle to prevent cutting one's hands open.


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## captmikestarrett (Apr 28, 2004)

*PP on a baitcaster*

One of the biggest drawbacks of using a braid on a non level wind baitcaster is the dig in factor. If a snag occurs while the line is out, the top line will dig deep into the spool. Next cast will be a mess. Second is the eye wrap issue as the line leaves the reel it will wrap an eye and either break off or break your rod. This mostly due to the lack of memory in braid. Quite common on windy days toward the last half of your cast. It trully is great stuff for sensitivity and just plain toughness. But it has to be tempered in the cast at all times. 

Capt Mike


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## BigJeff823 (Oct 14, 2002)

I know that stuff is strong and can cut you up especally the liter lines such as the 10/2PP;thats why you use gloves or a towel when you grap the line.


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