# Who here uses a shock leader?



## Manlystanley (Sep 22, 2010)

I was watching some surf casting videos such as this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj-o1MyHbkk

Towards the end of it he stresses the importance of using sock leader. The reasons being:

1.) It prevent the line from breaking during a cast.

2.) It can be very dangerous to have a sinker break on the beach!

He said that the shock leader should have a 10 to 1 ratio. The line should be 10 times the sinker size. So, a 4 ounce sinker needs a 40 lb test shock leader. The shock leader should be about 20 feet long. 

Do you guys cast with shock leaders? Is this really a needed precaution??

Thanks,
Stan


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## Green Cart (May 14, 2002)

*Yes*

Don't you believe the reasons as they are clear enough? I can easily prove it by borrowing your rod and snapping off your rig during a power cast. However, my maximum shockleader is 50 lb IGFA because I only cast up to 6 ounces, and I am not that powerful.

I said IGFA because 50 ponds IGFA is 50 pounds while other non IGFA 50 pounds line may actually be more line 60 or 70 pounds making the shock knot bigger.

One drawback to using the shock leader is the sound of the knot going through the guides, but since I am deaf, I don't hear that. However, there is a possibility of the guide being damaged. Another disadvantage is that if you don't tie the shock leader knot carefully, you can lose a big fish.

But I can give you more advantages. I will let others put their two cents in.


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## toejam (Jan 28, 2005)

150 grams of lead traveling at 200+ mph, can you say lethal projectile,,,,,,,I could never live with myself if I had a "crackoff" on the beach and it hurt somebody (especially a child}. I always use a shock leader and I pray that the fishers around me also do.


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## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

depends on the weight you're throwing Stan. With less than 4 oz, I won't use one. Will when greater. It allows you to put more power into the cast without breaking off. But I just double the strength of the main line. So if I have 20lb main line, I'll use a 40lb shock leader. I will sometimes use a thicker leader when fishing around structure like a pier or if toothy critters are in the area.


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## Danman (Dec 13, 2007)

It's better to be safe than sorry....at least for bystanders...If one wants to get beaned by his weight so be it..why would someone with some intelligence sling a 4oz weight using 10lb test line...i dunno


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## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

Danman said:


> It's better to be safe than sorry....at least for bystanders...If one wants to get beaned by his weight so be it..why would someone with some intelligence sling a 4oz weight using 10lb test line...i dunno


cause I don't use a pendulum cast or other high inertia casts. All momentum is forward and no danger to anyone. I have very few breakoffs. It's a very intelligent method of casting light weights.


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

It would probably be a shorter list to ask who doesn't use a shockleader.

Robert


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## Manlystanley (Sep 22, 2010)

I looked at 5 different sites and they all had the same shock leader knot, see below. Having one overhead knot seems so wimpy and would would its way out. Is this what you guys use??

Thanks,
Stan

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=t02eTPfQOsSclgfPhMntAg&ved=0CDcQ9QEwCA


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## apbtlvr (Sep 17, 2010)

I think the a shock leader is more correctly referred to as a top shot.


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## jakuka (Oct 12, 2009)

apbtlvr said:


> I think the a shock leader is more correctly referred to as a top shot.


Not quite.  Though it can be a confusing topic as leaders of all types are often misquoted. With so many different names and kinds its easy to see why. 

borrowed from surftalk:

*topshot*-: Addition of line to the top of a spool, usually just a very long leader, but sometimes as much as a 100 yds or more. Used generally as the fishing line and the line underneath the "topshot" is used as a backing of sorts. In the case of a short topshot, it's used as a very long leader. If the leader reaches the spool and has many turns on the spool, consider it a topshot. If it reaches the spool with a few turns on the spool, it's considered a "shock leader"...if it doesn't reach the spool, it's just a plain leader.


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## apbtlvr (Sep 17, 2010)

That makes better sense and the clarification is appreciated.


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

skunk king said:


> depends on the weight you're throwing Stan. With less than 4 oz, I won't use one. Will when greater. It allows you to put more power into the cast without breaking off. But I just double the strength of the main line. So if I have 20lb main line, I'll use a 40lb shock leader. I will sometimes use a thicker leader when fishing around structure like a pier or if toothy critters are in the area.





Danman said:


> It's better to be safe than sorry....at least for bystanders...If one wants to get beaned by his weight so be it..why would someone with some intelligence sling a 4oz weight using 10lb test line...i dunno


I saw 20lb main. I use 17 and will throw 4oz. Usually 3.


skunk king said:


> cause I don't use a pendulum cast or other high inertia casts. All momentum is forward and no danger to anyone. I have very few breakoffs. It's a very intelligent method of casting light weights.


Ever seen an 8oz pyrimid go through a truck door? 50' away and passed 3 people at chest height. All I heard was the snap on one side and the bang on the other. The dang thing was through the metal but didn't get into the cab. Thats why we use a shock leader. I still like the slim beauty knot.


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## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

rattler said:


> I saw 20lb main. I use 17 and will throw 4oz. Usually 3.
> 
> 
> Ever seen an 8oz pyrimid go through a truck door? 50' away and passed 3 people at chest height. All I heard was the snap on one side and the bang on the other. The dang thing was through the metal but didn't get into the cab. Thats why we use a shock leader. I still like the slim beauty knot.


Yeah, that's why I use (and said) I use a shock leader when throwing more than 4 ounces.


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## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

I'll explain my controversial answer above a little more here. I don't use a shock leader only when throwing 4 or less ounces. I use 12-15 lb test and rarely have a break off. But also, in my style of fishing, I'm rarely casting for the moon when using this little of weight. These are the weights I use to catch bait fish, typically spot and blue fish for drum and shark. So I'm typically just lobbing the bait out over the first break, something that puts little stress on the line. I will use one if throwing a bucktail at rockfish cause then I will put some heat on the rod for distance. I may put one on considering the fishing conditions, like around rocks, but this is to prevent breaks when landing the fish, not casting.

But most of the time, =< 4 ounces equals gentle, close casts for me.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Well,,,,,,I can tell you what. There are many places that you will fish in Hatteras or elsewhere for that matter which you will not be welcome if you do not use a SHOCK LEADER. This has been hashed out many many times over. Why is it so hard just to accept the advantages of it's use? I have no problem asking you if you are beside me casting. I have been told to mind my own business, kiss my a$$and don't worry about it. I have also been asked why do I need one? When answered with logic and easy to understand words most will agree. If not I just move on to another spot. Just for the record I use a shock leader on everything even my Mullet rods with #12 line and 3oz weights.

I don't care what weight you are tossing, throwing or power casting. All weights become deadly projectiles when they come unglued from the mainline at any power level. Think of it this way......What would happen if I throw this 3oz pyrimid and someone and hit them in the head?????? Hummmmmm?????


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## Manlystanley (Sep 22, 2010)

Thanks for all your help. I had no idea of the dangers of casting. So, thanks again for all your help!!

I'm trying now to figure out the specifies of tying a braid leader to mono line. The below knot is called the shock leader knot and seems to be the more commonly used on the Internet (at least). What knots do you guys use?

http://www.silflayhraka.com/wp/2003/09/30/shock-leader-knot/

Thanks,
Stan


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## Tacpayne (Dec 20, 2008)

I cant say that I have ever seen anyone use that knot that I fish with. I see a lot of uni to uni's and I personally use an albright knot.


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## Manlystanley (Sep 22, 2010)

Tacpayne said:


> I cant say that I have ever seen anyone use that knot that I fish with. I see a lot of uni to uni's and I personally use an albright knot.


So, this is the knot that you use then: http://www.sea-fishing.org/fishing-albright-knot.html

It would work well with, lets say 120 lb Braid to 20 lb mono line??

Thanks,
Stan


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## Tacpayne (Dec 20, 2008)

I dont use braid so I really cant say how it will hold, Im sure someone will chime in


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## CarolinaNemo (Dec 11, 2008)

Since it appears you are new to shock leaders, why not keep it simple and use a 50-80 lb mono shock leader? Braid shock leaders can cause some controversy depending on where you fish, so using mono would be a cheap, simple solution that won't cause any issues anywhere you fish.


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## Manlystanley (Sep 22, 2010)

CarolinaNemo said:


> Since it appears you are new to shock leaders, why not keep it simple and use a 50-80 lb mono shock leader? Braid shock leaders can cause some controversy depending on where you fish, so using mono would be a cheap, simple solution that won't cause any issues anywhere you fish.


Sounds good, I'll do that. But is this the best way to splice the knots together??


http://www.sea-fishing.org/fishing-albright-knot.html


Thanks,
Stan


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## Connman (Apr 14, 2001)

Manlystanley said:


> Thanks for all your help. I had no idea of the dangers of casting. So, thanks again for all your help!!
> 
> I'm trying now to figure out the specifies of tying a braid leader to mono line. The below knot is called the shock leader knot and seems to be the more commonly used on the Internet (at least). What knots do you guys use?
> 
> ...


That's the knot I use 90% of the time with mono shockleaders, only had is slip a few times on extended battles with big sting rays . When targeting shark I use a double overhand or figure eight instead of single overhand . With braid I use uni to uni .


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## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

Manlystanley,

I've used the overhand-to-uni knot and it works well. I'll usually double the main line using a spider hitch. The trick is grabbing the tag end of the shock leader with a pair of pliers and pulling the overhand very tight before tying the uni and tightening the connection.

Evan


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

I use the overhand to uni on my light stuff many times without failure. The heavier stuff I will use the albright.

Robert


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## CarolinaNemo (Dec 11, 2008)

There are many good knots to join a lighter mainline to a heavy shock leader. I have used the uni-uni and spider hitch-no name without issue. Pick a few and practice tying them until you are completely comfortable with the process.


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## m30power (Sep 8, 2010)

always use a shocker. I do have a question though!

On my 12' heaver. I am typically throwing 8 ounces and a spot head or chunk. I usually only use a 40lb shock leader. I cant imagine using an 80lb shocker. Am I undergunned with the 40lb leader?


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Go with #50 across the board on your heaver and you will be good.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

m30power said:


> always use a shocker. I do have a question though!
> 
> On my 12' heaver. I am typically throwing 8 ounces and a spot head or chunk. I usually only use a 40lb shock leader. I cant imagine using an 80lb shocker. Am I undergunned with the 40lb leader?



You can get away with it for a few casts, but every cast stresses the line and knots, so if using 40 you should change out the leader more often-- I just go with 50 or 60 and don't worry too much about changing the leader unless it gets chafed or chewed on.

With 40 I'd only get away with a few casts and gentle ones at that. An advantage to heavier shock is that it won't stretch as much during the loading of the rod during the cast-- if the shock leader is stretching during the cast it is robbing you of some distance-- it defeats the purpose of loading the rod up in the first place.


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## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

are you guys pendulum casting while fishing? I've never broken off or had issues with a 40lb shock leader(other than cutting the thumb on the knot once or twice), even after landing several large fish. I've pendulum cast with it a couple of times too without issue. I'm trying to figure out why your casts are more violent than mine. Are you guys pushing hard on the back cast? I gently lay my line back(Hatteras cast), then build power going forward. I'll push it from side to side on occasion instead of going straight back, but nothing ever using enough force to break a 40lb shock leader.


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

1000 times it may seem safe, the one time you have a shockleader hanging out of a kids head that got hit by your lead, you will wish you had thickened up. Seems like for it to be a general consensus that 10lbs per ounce is safest, there must be reason. 

I have had 150gram weights break off on 80lb shockers. That is just over 5 oz. Sometimes it _may_ have been a knot failure as a result of fatigue on the knot, other times it has been inches from the lead, nowhere near the knot. I have had baseballs break off the same shocker and get shot straight behind me. You never know what _may_ happen. Just my .02.....

Robert


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## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

thekingfeeder said:


> 1000 times it may seem safe, the one time you have a shockleader hanging out of a kids head that got hit by your lead, you will wish you had thickened up. Seems like for it to be a general consensus that 10lbs per ounce is safest, there must be reason.
> 
> I have had 150gram weights break off on 80lb shockers. That is just over 5 oz. Sometimes it _may_ have been a knot failure as a result of fatigue on the knot, other times it has been inches from the lead, nowhere near the knot. I have had baseballs break off the same shocker and get shot straight behind me. You never know what _may_ happen. Just my .02.....
> 
> Robert


Ok, but that can happen anytime from a bad knot or unseen nick in the line. I get what you're saying, but would like a more scientific answer than to save the children.

So yes, there must be a reason some people use that rule of thumb and I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. 80lb seems like overkill to me. I know 2 other guys that use small leaders like me and they don't have issues either. I am using fluorocarbon, maybe that's the difference? Was this an older rule of thumb when line was made of a different material and the rule hasn't been revisited with newer technologies? Something just for high inertia casts? 

Not trying to be argumentative, trying to figure out why you guys say I should be using an 80lb. shock leader when I've had no issues with 40 lb.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

skunk king said:


> are you guys pendulum casting while fishing? I've never broken off or had issues with a 40lb shock leader(other than cutting the thumb on the knot once or twice), even after landing several large fish. I've pendulum cast with it a couple of times too without issue. I'm trying to figure out why your casts are more violent than mine. Are you guys pushing hard on the back cast? I gently lay my line back(Hatteras cast), then build power going forward. I'll push it from side to side on occasion instead of going straight back, but nothing ever using enough force to break a 40lb shock leader.


Regardless of the cast style, all power should be built on the forward stroke-- 
A highly effective pull with the bottom hand is what really accelerates a lead-- and stretches (stresses) the shock leader to the breaking point. If the shock leader has been dragged across sand and debris repeatedly, chewed on by fish,etc. ..-- each cast brings the leader closer to the breaking point.

I actually have a pretty smooth hit on the rod (usually), but still have managed to snap a few 50 lb. shockleaders on occassion.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

skunk king said:


> Ok, but that can happen anytime from a bad knot or unseen nick in the line. I get what you're saying, but would like a more scientific answer than to save the children.
> 
> So yes, there must be a reason some people use that rule of thumb and I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. 80lb seems like overkill to me. I know 2 other guys that use small leaders like me and they don't have issues either. I am using fluorocarbon, maybe that's the difference? Was this an older rule of thumb when line was made of a different material and the rule hasn't been revisited with newer technologies? Something just for high inertia casts?
> 
> Not trying to be argumentative, trying to figure out why you guys say I should be using an 80lb. shock leader when I've had no issues with 40 lb.


I know a few that swear by 40 lb shock leader as well-- I understand if you are getting away with it and re-tie often-- you may never have a problem.

I'm pretty sure the rule was made for tournament casters who are swinging lighter leads at much higher speeds-- they absolutely require the 10 to 1 rule.

Most of us can't swing 8 oz plus bait fast enough to require 80 lb test leaders-- and I can see where a knot in 80 lb line would be trouble for most going through the rod guides.

Even if I didn't think I needed 50 or 60 lb for "safety" I'd use it for the less "stretch" factor-- I'd even consider heavy braid as a leader if it wan't harder on guides and rods-- a little stretch adds a cushion of safety-- no stretch can result in broken rods if you are not careful.

Keep in mind it's a general rule to go by--- different lines from different manufacturers have different diameters and some exhibit more or less stretch than others-- a line that stretches like a rubber band gets thinner as it is stretched out-- and is more likely to break sooner than a line rated the same but with less inherent stretch.


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

Absolutely agreed, anything can happen, knot failures and the like no matter what lb test you are using. I have no scientific study, nor do I intend to try to concoct one. My personal feelings are that after a day of fishing, a heavier shocker will hold up and retain more strength then a lighter shocker. (Made of the same material and density, that was for you Mark..LOL) At the beginning of the day, 40lb may work for your casting style. You have to agree that 80lb will take a beating and retain strength better than 40lb subjected to the same abrasions and stress. Once again, all this is generalized rules to go by. At least you are using a shocker.


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

skunk king said:


> are you guys pendulum casting while fishing? I've never broken off or had issues with a 40lb shock leader(other than cutting the thumb on the knot once or twice), even after landing several large fish. I've pendulum cast with it a couple of times too without issue. I'm trying to figure out why your casts are more violent than mine. Are you guys pushing hard on the back cast? I gently lay my line back(Hatteras cast), then build power going forward. I'll push it from side to side on occasion instead of going straight back, but nothing ever using enough force to break a 40lb shock leader.



i know we have our differences, but i mean this seriously. how many big fish have you caught in an outing? what im getting at is that big fish and fighting them stresses the hell out of knots and line. especially lighter lines as the stretch factor that was mentioned. 40lb to 50lb wont be that much of a difference for you, but the power will be, as in 17 and 20 are very close in dia, but 2 totally different lines and strengths. If you already use 40 just buy 50 next time and after a few trips you wont notice. Btw, even with lighter weights and rigs, use a shock, its good practice and never know when you get a nice fish on a small rig, happens quite frequently


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## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

NTKG said:


> i know we have our differences, but i mean this seriously. how many big fish have you caught in an outing? what im getting at is that big fish and fighting them stresses the hell out of knots and line. especially lighter lines as the stretch factor that was mentioned. 40lb to 50lb wont be that much of a difference for you, but the power will be, as in 17 and 20 are very close in dia, but 2 totally different lines and strengths. If you already use 40 just buy 50 next time and after a few trips you wont notice. Btw, even with lighter weights and rigs, use a shock, its good practice and never know when you get a nice fish on a small rig, happens quite frequently


Geeze dude, you think no else catches big fish? I hooked up with 3 large sharks this weekend using the same knot and leader. Are you sure you're tying good knots?


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

skunk king said:


> Geeze dude, you think no else catches big fish? I hooked up with 3 large sharks this weekend using the same knot and leader. Are you sure you're tying good knots?



i dont think i was trying to be dick there, i was making an attempt to adress questions but if you insist on being the new guy that knows the answers to everything and wants to re-create the wheel. I gave you sound advice. 40 is not 50. You should use shock on your smaller rods too. There it is. You don't have to take it, but its sound advice. Btw those sharks you keep bragging about, they're not big... at all. What do you think we bail in the kayaks while we're waiting for cobia? And if you really want some advice, stop gaffing them like a f-ing tourist, why the hell would you stick a gaff in the face of a shark your going to release?


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## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

NTKG said:


> i dont think i was trying to be dick there, i was making an attempt to adress questions but if you insist on being the new guy that knows the answers to everything and wants to re-create the wheel. I gave you sound advice. 40 is not 50. You should use shock on your smaller rods too. There it is. You don't have to take it, but its sound advice. Btw those sharks you keep bragging about, they're not big... at all. What do you think we bail in the kayaks while we're waiting for cobia? And if you really want some advice, stop gaffing them like a f-ing tourist, why the hell would you stick a gaff in the face of a shark your going to release?


Well, you just can't help yourself then. I'm neither a new guy or acting like I know everything. That's why I asked questions and didn't get bent of shape when questioned. "Cause I say so" isn't a legitimate answer. Being a know it all is your game, not mine. 

Good day.


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

skunk king said:


> Well, you just can't help yourself then. I'm neither a new guy or acting like I know everything. That's why I asked questions and didn't get bent of shape when questioned. "Cause I say so" isn't a legitimate answer. Being a know it all is your game, not mine.
> 
> Good day.


fine... your right. I've seen you cast. You don't need a shockleader. You happy now? You know how you could make a bunch of us happier? take yourself back to rdt

by the way you remember writing this on Robs board? i mean 40lb shock probably helps you get this distances...

"So I spent a lot time practicing my casting, reading up on how the tournament guys cast. I got a lesson from Ryan White which was a big help. I worked on my technique till finally got my distance up to 180-200 yards, but still wasn't catching big fish."


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

180-200yds with a baited FFrig??????? I wanna see that measured because that would put you in the top 1/2% of all the casters on the beach......


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## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

NTKG said:


> fine... your right. I've seen you cast. You don't need a shockleader. You happy now? You know how you could make a bunch of us happier? take yourself back to rdt
> 
> by the way you remember writing this on Robs board? i mean 40lb shock probably helps you get this distances...
> 
> "So I spent a lot time practicing my casting, reading up on how the tournament guys cast. I got a lesson from Ryan White which was a big help. I worked on my technique till finally got my distance up to 180-200 yards, but still wasn't catching big fish."


you don't speak for everyone Neal. 

I remember that post from Spring/Early Summer. And that 50 incher was my first big drum. Since then I've had a great summer and caught big fish in the river and on boats. You can PM me if you want to continue with insults. I'm sure Tommy doesn't want to diminish the quality of this board. 


For the topic at hand, you've given a different answer than everyone else. They say 80lb, you say 50lb. Is knot strength the only reason you use 50lb. shock leader?


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## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

AbuMike said:


> 180-200yds with a baited FFrig??????? I wanna see that measured because that would put you in the top 1/2% of all the casters on the beach......



that's just with lead.


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

skunk king said:


> you don't speak for everyone Neal.
> 
> I remember that post from Spring/Early Summer. And that 50 incher was my first big drum. Since then I've had a great summer and caught big fish in the river and on boats. You can PM me if you want to continue with insults. I'm sure Tommy doesn't want to diminish the quality of this board.
> 
> ...


actually most of the posts say 50 or 60. There were a couple of posts saying that there is no need for 80 as a fisherman. The boards offer advice and insight for people, some of which are new. Any post saying for whatever reason that shock is not necessary is going to get hit on. If folks want to learn there is a lot of random and incorrect advice given, and most of it I don't really care... But anything about shocks involves safety of me and those around me I dont think its a great idea for whatever reason someone throwing 4 ounces should not be using a leader. And its advice, 50 is better than 40.


and quite honestly, if you end up casting or fishing next to me at the river, i dont want to get hit with a lead on a breakoff. regardless of how hard you cast or if you really hit 200yards(even more so if you can.........) its a safety issue. Why do you think the "standard" is fifty?

i wrote drum 101 in the bible for a reason. so people wouldnt get bad advice. my advice might not be the best, but enough people chimed in where its worth at least tryin out... 

1. shock... use it
2. 50 or more
3. double your main line and you will have a stronger knot.

not much more complicated than that. no need to make it more.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

A dear friend of mine and of all who Drum Fish Hatteras has permanent hearing loss, due to another dear friend that had a break off on a cast and was hit in the ear by the heaver. The harder you throw the more necessary it is to check your shock for wear. The fella who broke off is a excellent caster and uses 60 pound mono which is what broke in the middle of a big Drum bite.

Everyone that I have fished Hatteras with in the last twenty five years uses either 50 or 60 mono shock and this is the standard. I would venture to say 80 mono would cause more shock Knot blowups it is not used on Hatteras in that I have never seen it and at one time I put some time in on the Beach and Piers. It may be in use for competition, I only cast to fish.

The better caster you are the more you owe it to those around you is to use
safe practices. The best casters are actually more dangerous than the rookies cause the people around them "assume" that nothing will go wrong and stand too close. I found that when I went to the "Mike Hayes" rig and the sinker was touching only 100 pound test I had less break offs than on the fifty. A more personal huge reason not to break off is that you have to re spool.

If you are just going to lob it 40 is fine, if you break off with 40 and hit the guy or gal to next you it would be a far different outcome in general feelings amongst your peer group as to breaking off what is considered to be the standard since they have asked for a higher margin of safety. 

Its not like at a casting tournament where everyone can move out of the impact zone....


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

That was the nice thing about sufix surf, when it was available. I could only get it from the UK. It was 80lb test, but only 60lb thickness compared to 60lb mono over here. Safety and the extra strength when landing him, in 60lb thickness, couldn't go wrong.  In a fit of stupidity, I sold off the extra spools I had. 

Robert


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

My original response was to this poster




m30power said:


> always use a shocker. I do have a question though!
> 
> On my 12' heaver. I am typically throwing 8 ounces and a spot head or chunk. I usually only use a 40lb shock leader. I cant imagine using an 80lb shocker. Am I undergunned with the 40lb leader?



Look the gereal consensus is that yes, with 40 lb you may indeed be slightly undergunned. Enough of us feel that the extra margin of safety in 50 or 60 lb test is worth using it.

Quite frankly I can't think of any reason not to--- the only advantage to 40 lb might be a slightly smaller shock knot-- but I don't have any issues with passing 60 lb shock knots through my guides.

Is there a cost benefit I'm missing ? , because if that's the reason for using 40 I think you'll wind up having to re-tie more leaders and thus go through a spool of 40 faster than 50 in the long run.

40 lb -- slightly under gunned

50 or 60 -- usually sufficient for most casters

80-- likely overgunned-- but better that than undergunned and if I could get it in the Sufix Surf Robert mentioned I'd likely use it...

In the interest of public safety-- it is better to have a margin of safety than attempt to determine the "minimum" one can "get away" with.

And to broadcast to the general public that 50 might be overkill is doing them a disservice-- no need to put newbies with herky jerky casts in more danger than necessary..

Not picking on newbs-- but they are the ones that come to boards like this looking for advice-- lets not steer them towards danger from the get go..


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## Manlystanley (Sep 22, 2010)

Mark G said:


> Not picking on newbs-- but they are the ones that come to boards like this looking for advice-- lets not steer them towards danger from the get go..



I resemble that remark! Many thanks to everyone for such a great discussion of shock leaders. Without it, I would have taken my wife and youngest two girls out fishing, swung that sinker like a mad man and put everyone at risk.

Thanks again,
Stan


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## clueless (Jul 15, 2010)

Myt main line is 65# braid...Never found a reason to use shock leader. I case 6, 8 and 10oz plus chunk. Am I the only one?


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

NTKG said:


> actually most of the posts say 50 or 60. There were a couple of posts saying that there is no need for 80 as a fisherman. The boards offer advice and insight for people, some of which are new. Any post saying for whatever reason that shock is not necessary is going to get hit on. If folks want to learn there is a lot of random and incorrect advice given, and most of it I don't really care... But anything about shocks involves safety of me and those around me I dont think its a great idea for whatever reason someone throwing 4 ounces should not be using a leader. And its advice, 50 is better than 40.
> 
> 
> and quite honestly, if you end up casting or fishing next to me at the river, i dont want to get hit with a lead on a breakoff. regardless of how hard you cast or if you really hit 200yards(even more so if you can.........) its a safety issue. Why do you think the "standard" is fifty?
> ...


LOL we got a new FA. Good advice Neil!!


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

Manlystanley said:


> So, this is the knot that you use then: http://www.sea-fishing.org/fishing-albright-knot.html
> 
> It would work well with, lets say 120 lb Braid to 20 lb mono line??
> 
> ...


120lb braid? The rod is rated for it and its a HEAVER?


CarolinaNemo said:


> Since it appears you are new to shock leaders, why not keep it simple and use a 50-80 lb mono shock leader? Braid shock leaders can cause some controversy depending on where you fish, so using mono would be a cheap, simple solution that won't cause any issues anywhere you fish.


Braid does not stretch. That is the reason for a shocker. It eases the shock on the rod/reel from the power of the cast and the weight of what is thrown. Braid works for for "hold the rod to feel a lite bite". 


clueless said:


> Myt main line is 65# braid...Never found a reason to use shock leader. I case 6, 8 and 10oz plus chunk. Am I the only one?


Why over tax your rod and reel? If you use #20 braid(rod rating), its gonna cut. Your thumb, guides, reel,etc. Mono Works. Has for years. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

skunk king said:


> that's just with lead.


Then it has no bearing on this thread.....................


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

skunk king said:


> you don't speak for everyone Neal.
> 
> I remember that post from Spring/Early Summer. And that 50 incher was my first big drum. Since then I've had a great summer and caught big fish in the river and on boats. You can PM me if you want to continue with insults. I'm sure Tommy doesn't want to diminish the quality of this board.
> 
> ...


He speaks for me and the rest of the A/C and for most of the drum fishermen and for those that he learned from, except the fact that he uses circle hooks and most of us use J's. We use 50lbs shock leader, 4-5f 100lbs fish leader, and 100lbs snell/bite leader. 

I see you keep referring big fish in the river and on boats, but you didn't say how big. And I've heard the story of that 50" drum..


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