# Ramping up the VIOLENCE!!



## bstarling (Apr 24, 2005)

I went out today for a little casting. I took along a tuned 5000D and found it to throw pretty well. In the beginning I found that I was throwing about the same as last year, in the low 500's. I tried to come on with the violence and more rotation and quickly discovered that I may need to slow my reel down a bit. It would launch like a bat outta hell, but would build a pretty good fluff on the rise. I'm throwing high reel OTG style with a center mag unit and lapped factory bearing in an ultra cast spool. Presently I'm using Hot Sauce oil. I know that I'm getting in slow and waiting until I'm lined up before the violence comes into play so I'm reasonably certain it's not technique. Anyone have any suggestions?

Bill:fishing:


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

a video would be best. =D


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Bill,

As you get the technique tuned in and start to add power you will find that the reel has got to be tuned a little more on the conservative side. Not sure how you have the reel setup but my advice would be to go with thicker oil in the bearings (I like red rocket), maybe add a magnet (if it's a mag reel) or a brake block.

Make one adjustment at a time. Too much initial braking can kill the cast from the start but you HAVE to get control. Even if you survive the fluff without blowup, it will cut your distance.

Hope this helps,

See you in Shallotte!!

Tommy


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## bstarling (Apr 24, 2005)

Tommy said:


> Bill,
> 
> As you get the technique tuned in and start to add power you will find that the reel has got to be tuned a little more on the conservative side. Not sure how you have the reel setup but my advice would be to go with thicker oil in the bearings (I like red rocket), maybe add a magnet (if it's a mag reel) or a brake block.
> 
> ...


I think that's the thing. I have my reel tuned like I did last year and I am hitting a lot harder than I did then. The reel is magged with one of Kwisi's setups. I'm thinking the oil may be the first thing I need to address. I'm reasonably sure that if you're using red rocket and not getting fluff I would more than suffice for me. Do you carry that stuff in your stock? 

Bill:fishing:


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

I posted a article on here from John Holden about tunning reels. After reading it I find that sometimes it takes a combination of several different breaking options. I know some people that use no oil (hybrid bearings) and a custom mag. I also know people who use a Mag and thick oil and one brake blocks. I have found in my limited experience that some reels have a mind of there own, and may need more breaking then an identical reel. I find that I like to get a 6sec spin with mags full on, and 15secs with mags full off.. That's with the oil, mags, etc.. I perfer mine on the conservative side, but that's just me.. You're using a 5000D reel, did you convert the reel to be able to usethe never spools?




bstarling said:


> I think that's the thing. I have my reel tuned like I did last year and I am hitting a lot harder than I did then. The reel is magged with one of Kwisi's setups. I'm thinking the oil may be the first thing I need to address. I'm reasonably sure that if you're using red rocket and not getting fluff I would more than suffice for me. Do you carry that stuff in your stock?
> 
> Bill:fishing:


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## bstarling (Apr 24, 2005)

*5000d*

Yes, I did set it up with the ultra cast spool. It is definitely a hybrid, but pretty cool. I'm using the mag setup I got from you and so far it's the stuff! I also casted the reel I used last year, an old Daiwa Millionaire 6B with a spindle axle spool. It puffed badly as well. Last year that reel was rock solid for me to about 550 feet at the power level I was generating at the time. I'm beginning to see that there is no end game in this hobby. The better you get the more you push the limits and the more you have to adapt and modify your tools and techniques. 

Bill:fishing:


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

bstarling said:


> Yes, I did set it up with the ultra cast spool. It is definitely a hybrid, but pretty cool. I'm using the mag setup I got from you and so far it's the stuff! I also casted the reel I used last year, an old Daiwa Millionaire 6B with a spindle axle spool. It puffed badly as well. Last year that reel was rock solid for me to about 550 feet at the power level I was generating at the time. I'm beginning to see that there is no end game in this hobby. The better you get the more you push the limits and the more you have to adapt and modify your tools and techniques.
> 
> Bill:fishing:


It's a sickness and there is no cure....


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

I find that building a reel and going out in a field and beating my personal best is almost as good as S$%.. Ok maybe not that good! LOL


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

I think my wife has given up on trying to get me out of the basement! I do try to stop drilling by 8pm.. LOL


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## bstarling (Apr 24, 2005)

Tommy said:


> It's a sickness and there is no cure....


I'm beginning to realize that. I guess the next thing I'll be looking for is a real tourney rod that I can afford. 

Bill:fishing:


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

you will find some good deals at the tournaments...


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## Charkbait (Oct 15, 2007)

Not sure where tommy is on this one but I know he does the necessary physical prep to be a big time tosser. I've found that squatting has been great for my casting distance. I think it is because it is allowing me to add lots of power without the need to do it via speed thus causing blowups. It allows me to deeply load a rod much earlier and keep it loaded because of my stronger base. Unfortunatly this is a 2-3 month proposition and not a one session fix so it is tougher to stay focused on it while seeing only small incremental gains...over a couple months it sure adds up.


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## bstarling (Apr 24, 2005)

Charkbait said:


> Not sure where tommy is on this one but I know he does the necessary physical prep to be a big time tosser. I've found that squatting has been great for my casting distance. I think it is because it is allowing me to add lots of power without the need to do it via speed thus causing blowups. It allows me to deeply load a rod much earlier and keep it loaded because of my stronger base. Unfortunatly this is a 2-3 month proposition and not a one session fix so it is tougher to stay focused on it while seeing only small incremental gains...over a couple months it sure adds up.


I've had cervical problems for a long time. I had surgery for that two years ago and have been working on my shoulder and arm strength since. I had so much muscle atrophy that it has been an up hill battle. I'm just now getting some of it back and maybe I'm not using as much discretion in my hit as I once did. I can definitely hit much harder than in the past. It also doesn't hurt as bad, thank God. I think I've reached my limit using mostly rotation. I've got to get the hit in there as well. At least that's what I'm thinking.

Bill:fishing:


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

I think Charkbait is 100% right, but his experience my not be mine or yours. I think if you're blessed with size and power you can go a long way with just that. Charkbait is built like a linebacker, for us not as blessed we will need to focus on form, and use whatever power we have. In my opiniion for the smaller to average guy form will take you further than just power. i cast with a 60 year old man thats 130 pounds with work boots and 3 bricks in his pocket and he cast further than me.. FOR NOW!


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## Charkbait (Oct 15, 2007)

indeed like a linebacker at times.

I've been 240 and 185 at 5'11", heavier wins out all day in casting heavy fishing weights but no so in the 5oz realm. My point in mentioning the strength of your base is that it will give you distance without necessarily getting faster or more violent in your rotation or hands. To the extent that you can deeply root your self during your cast and creat power through your legs you can gain distance without violence or an increased probability of blowups.

I started noticing this watching some videos after my brother in law commented that it looked like I used my entire body to cast. I fish much faster reels then he does and rarely blow up and smoke him by 30-40yds on sand. He's all arms and rotation and blows up constantly. Start with a strong base and a deep initial load and when you do get voilent you'll have less blowups IMO.

For those of you of smaller stature, I'd think it'd be all that much more important to work on that then for some of the bigger guys. The difference for me from that 185# range and the 240# range is noticable on sand expecially with big baits when tossing out in the wash, on grass with lighter weights isn't all that much because I'm faster at 185 but still have strong legs...oh, and a broken vertebrae so no complaining about bad backs and squatting.


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## Charkbait (Oct 15, 2007)

just as an example, try casting in a pair of spikes one day, you'll pickup distance if you don't do it often.

Controllable violence starts in your feet...you won't see many big hitters on their tip toes while casting. 

I love the video Kmw but you only have both feet on the ground for less then 25% of your cast...something to think about, and somthing I had to work on quite a bit especially to translate to fishing.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

You are right again my friend I had that problem last year (the video's 12 months old) now I'm working on getting the power at the end
.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

You are right again my friend I had that problem last year (the video's 12 months old) now I'm working on getting the power at the end
.


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## bstarling (Apr 24, 2005)

Chark, I think I see where you're coming from. I'll study myself next time out and see how much leg I'm putting into it. I've got pretty good leg strength still. I work out with 150-160 on the leg presses and get a few in at 250 before I quit. I've been doing the gym thing for a while mostly trying to get my upper body strength back and my fat stomach gone. I think I'm going for a smash on the arm hit and that could be problematic. I really think the rod is loaded pretty well before I hit it, but I'm sure I could improve on that. One other thing I am using a pretty thin oil (Hot Sauce). I believe I'll follow Tommy's advice on trying something thicker. 

I appreciate your's and others comments. I look forward to seeing everyone again at Shallotte.

Bill:fishing:


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## Lipyourown (May 11, 2005)

You gotta hammer it...


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Good advice Charkbait,

I've been saying for years that the cast starts from the ground up... 

Some casters take a step, some do not. The important thing is to make sure you are *grounded* when you make the hit. Think about your body like a spring, uncoiling from the ground up. Feet, legs, hips, torso, chest and shoulders and finally arms coming through last.

You have to have a solid base to make the hit or the power transfer gets lost.

Tommy


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*My .02*

I think your right on with the oil question Bill. Red rocket is definitely tamer than hot sauce, and will give you a smidgeon more room for control on the inital take off of the weight. 

No matter how short, small or skinny someone may be, leg strength can be devoloped with dedication, every sport that involves explosive power, be it hitting a baseball, driving a golf ball, or launching a weight involves solid leg work from the ground up. Solid technique is great, combine that with power in the legs (utilized properly)-- again technique-- will get you there faster than good technique alone.

My point-- just because your not Arnold Shwarzenwhoever-- doesn't mean you should not work on developing your strength as much as your technique.


Now if I only practiced what I preach  .


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