# Diamonds, Chevrons, Etc



## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

Eager to learn how to do these wraps. Just curious as to if anybody knew of any particular piece of literature or tutorials I could order or find on line. Or if anybody has a way of explaining? Thanks!


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## Iceman (Jan 12, 2004)

Mudhole sells a video by Artie Herbert that goes into detail on how to do these wraps. I have an easier time learning by watching as opposed to reading and it provide good fundamentals of crosswraps.

Ron


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

Thanks Ron...I'll deffinately look into it next time I make an order.


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

Flexcoat makes a couple books that go into decorative wraps. What I've done so far is just taken a look at as many rods as I can and tried to dissect the wrap with my eyes. You can figure them out pretty well if you look close enough.


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

Dont have access to any pretty rods up close lol. Is most of this stuff done with A size thread?


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

For the most part, I think A is what's used. Since A is smaller and packs together to make a smoother surface, it looks better. I tried the Gudebrod butt braid (that just sounds wrong...) but I don't like it because it doesn't finish very smooth, and you have to have a pretty thick layer of epoxy over it. I haven't looked at too many of the really nice stuff up close, like the stuff Wayne does, but I have seen one of Scott Wood's wraps on his 1569 and it was really nice. Wayne's wraps are insane. Mostly what I look at to pick up ideas is just stock rods at Wally World. I can really pick out the flaws in them now that I know what goes into building them.

An afterthought is to give Ray at FishSticks a call. He gave me a rundown at the shop one day of a wrap he did on a 1267, and you'd be surprised how easy it is for some of those wraps.


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

Thanks bass. Really appreciate it.


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## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

This is a 48 thread, 4-axis chevron I did for a good friend. There are 4 bands of 48 threads each (two spiraling up clockwise and two spiraling up counterclockwise). Essentially, what you'd do to start is start with the bottom band of gold (for an inverse-V) and work upwards, through the white, the blue, the white and then gold. Lay down the thread one by one until the pattern is filled, but done in sequence. As this is a 4 axis wrap, there would be two pairs of two bands, a pair at the 0 degree axis, and a pair at the 180 degree axis. So, wrapping upwards, I'd go 0-cw, 0-ccw, 180-cw, 180-ccw (where the number is the axis and the letters are cw for clockwise and ccw for counter-clockwise). 192 threads later, wrap to secure, apply finish and done!


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

Thanks AK....kind of busy right now but Ill try to wrap my mind around that when I get unbusy


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## Elkhunter (Jun 18, 2004)

Look at Decorative Wraps by Billy Vivona.
Very informative and step by step pic's....
If your fishing the Striper Tourney I'll try and bring it and you can look it over. Just let me know...I like the book but haven't done a wrap yet from it.


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

AK that's a beautiful wrap. On a side note, check your PM's.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

TreednNC said:


> Thanks AK....kind of busy right now but Ill try to wrap my mind around that when I get unbusy


I agree with What Ron (Iceman) said, Books are good, but vids tend to make it easier to follow the process, having both available would be ideal because each medium has it ups and downs.


Plan on trying a few crosswraps myself, watched a Doc Ski video on weaving a couple of times- not sure I have the patience at this point to try that. We'll see.

BTW- pretty work CT- how long (estimate) did that butt wrap take you.


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## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

Surf Cat, that wrap took around 3 hours or so. There's metallic gold, white, blue, and metallic blue in it; all A-sized thread. The "DS" weave to the left is a 14x21 thread weave (that took around 2 hours). It turned out a bit smaller than I wanted, but my buddy was in a hurry so I didn't get a chance to redo it. 

The chevron wrap was done first, anchored with the white. The metallic gold trim bands were added, color preserver applied, and a thin coat of finish. Then the blue "overwraps"; the one near the guide is a straight wrap, the one near the butt was the wrapping thread for the weave. Another thin coat of finish was applied over all of it to smooth out any peaks or valleys in the chevron, as well as cover the blue overwraps. The third coat of finish was applied a bit thicker to cover it all up and protect it. 

basstardo, check your PMs.


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

Hey CT, do you wrap multiple threads at once or one at a time? In Tom Kirkman's book it shows him wrapping 4 at a time, which would speed things up, but I guess I'm not skilled enough for that yet, so I do one at a time.


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

yikes....the whole concept of start and finish doesnt seem too hard...the crossing and weaving at each intersection of the bands seems tough to get right each time.....guess I should probably go to wally world and buy some cheap sewing thread and practice on something


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

TreednNC said:


> yikes....the whole concept of start and finish doesnt seem too hard...the crossing and weaving at each intersection of the bands seems tough to get right each time.....guess I should probably go to wally world and buy some cheap sewing thread and practice on something


You can buy cheap blanks to practice on but you could also buy PVC pipe of the proper (3/4 to 1") diameter and cut into 3 or 4' sections. Will give you lots to practice with- can be spray painted black or other color to look more like a blank.


Basstardo- most instructional videos show the builder handling multiple threads in a single pass to speed up the process- tho most recommend starting out using a single thread per pass until you get the hang of it.


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## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

I did most of that wrap with single threads, but I think I did the white as 5- or 6-thread bands (don't remember ). While the multi-thread bands speeds things up, I still prefer the look of single thread wraps. They look much smoother, but are much more time consuming.


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

How do you get them to stay side by side on the ends when wrapping them to lock them?


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

Justin do you mean after the wrap is all done and you go to wrap it to lock it down? What I've done is just started a wrap close to the reversed masking tape that is holding the thread ends down, and once I get about 6-10 tight wraps, I cut the tape off and trim the thread ends. Then continue the wrap and double it back over itself (Wrap all the way one way, then all the way back). That way you have 2 layers of the thread locking the wrap in place. Make sense?


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

sorta makes sense... but...starting out...how to keep them all straight and aligned properly? Reversed masking tape and lay them down evenly?I should probably wait until I get a video, but I cant help but ask. What the heck do you do with that many threads to keep them organized while you wrap it?


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

I take 2 inch masking tape, and reverse it at the end of where I want my wrap to be. You start the thread you want to wrap first by sticking it to the tap and then wrapping up the blank to the next piece of tape. As for keeping the wrapes alligned and spaced evenly, hopefully AK will chime in. He explained how he does it last night, and he uses the FlexCoat wrap alignment tool. I plan to give one a try and see how I like it. His explaination of how he uses it seems pretty bulletproof when it comes to keeping things aligned and straight.


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

Ok I understand that part. But if youre going to be going over and under, wouldnt you need to be wrapping more than one thread at a time?


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

You should be going over and under. The chevrons and what not are made by the direction and order of the wrap. Like AK said, he worked from teh gold to white to blue to white to gold. Up one thread at a time and the end result is the wrap in his picture.


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

Using a thread pick to gently life the threads if you need to go under?


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

TreednNC said:


> Ok I understand that part. But if youre going to be going over and under, wouldnt you need to be wrapping more than one thread at a time?


Treed, video by Artie Hebert is pretty good. Your not weaving in this process, so there is no over and under, so to speak- it just looks that way when it's finished.

I think Basstardo meant to say your NOT going over and under, but I'll let him clarify


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*clarification*

Atlanta King did use weaving to form the letters of the initials, but that is really a separate wrap from the diamond wrap.


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

Ive got a section of a trashed rod and Im going to try to get the concept of this with sewing thread until I can figure out what in the world is going on. I thought I had an idea until you said it wasnt a weave ( over and under over and under in whichever fashion or pattern you so choose). ....asked for the videos for Christmas....shoulda just got em myself and overnighted em to me lol


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

Also...if you dont go over and under, then how do you do it? The concept shouldnt be that hard, the repetitiveness should be the hard part.


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

Yeah, no over or under. It's all about the order the threads are wrapped. You do one at a time and build the wrap that way. 

I tried to find a pic for you that would explain it, but I haven't had much luck. If you can find a copy of Tom Kirkman's book it's got a few pretty good photos and good explaination of how it works. Rodbuilding.org might have something as well. I'm going to take a look now.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Take a thread and spiral it up the rod toward the tip. Now take a second thread and spiral it form the tip back toward the butt (opposite dirction of first thread).

The second thread is going to cross over the top of the first thread at each intereseting point.

Now wrap a third thread, this one parallel to and in same direction as first thread. By choosing the timing of which thread gets laid out and in what order and direction, determines the final look. Only the very last thread will be truly on top of all other threads, but because they are parallel they and generally the same hieght, they look like a weave.

That software (Visual Wrap)that mudhole sells packaged with Billy Vivona's book looks like it would be a good layout tool, you can see what the finished pattern will look like without actually having to perform the wrap. I think there is a demo version of it that shows how it works. WIll see if I can find a link.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

TreednNC said:


> Also...if you dont go over and under, then how do you do it? The concept shouldnt be that hard, the *repetitiveness *should be the hard part.



BINGO- make sure you have a good dose of patience- its like putting togehter one of those 10,000 piece jigsaw puzzles. Time consuming and (perhaps monotonous) , not necessarily difficult- but you do have to have the temperment for it.


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

http://www.visualwrap.com/


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

OK! Found something. Go to Mudhole and their Rodbuilding 101 section. Scroll down until you see the Multi-thread and cross wraps section. There's some good explaination in there.


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

http://www.tightwraps.com/vizwrap/vizpatternsmenu.php


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

basstardo said:


> OK! Found something. Go to Mudhole and their Rodbuilding 101 section. Scroll down until you see the Multi-thread and cross wraps section. There's some good explaination in there.


Found that one....confused me worse....cant wait to get home and out of this office (we need more field work, this office stuff is drivin me nutts) to look this stuff over.

Thank you though. Thank you all ( SC, Basstardo, AK, and the rest of you guys) Thank you for the patients to explain this.


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

Are you going to the ICRBE in February? I imagine they'll have some good classes on some of this stuff. I booked my room a couple nights ago.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*Treed*

at mudhole just do a product search for the visual wraps software- when it pulls up the product you'll see where it says click here for a demo of the software- it'll lay a wrap out for you a thread at a time (much faster than the actual process) so you can see a pattern as it merges.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

basstardo said:


> Are you going to the ICRBE in February? I imagine they'll have some good classes on some of this stuff. I booked my room a couple nights ago.



I'm hoping to get in on the classes as well- we might need to do a meet and greet for the P&S crew !


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

Yep....the show is about an hour and 20min or so away...will deffinately be there. 

Thanks Mark for where to get the demo. 

Dont worry, I wont ask any more questions until after I sort through the wealth of information brought up the past hour or so, and try it. 

Thanks again guys!


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

Holy chit thats awesome stuff...the demo


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

Surf Cat said:


> I'm hoping to get in on the classes as well- we might need to do a meet and greet for the P&S crew !


That sounds like a plan. You won't be able to miss me. I'm almost 7 feet tall with a shaved head and goatee. Just think of a big bald beanpole, and that'll be me.


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

basstardo said:


> That sounds like a plan. You won't be able to miss me. I'm almost 7 feet tall with a shaved head and goatee. Just think of a big bald beanpole, and that'll be me.


How does one go about getting in on this? First come first serve?


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

That weaving is cool looking on a rod but I use Diamond wrap most the time and Fish and Flag wrap wasn't bad but used alot more thread. I just never had the patience to try weaving.

CB


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

TreednNC said:


> How does one go about getting in on this? First come first serve?


Get in on what? The expo? 

Edit: Wait, you mean the classes? They're part of the expo. There are some heavy hitters giving these classes as well. SHould be a good opportunity to learn some new things. The classes run during the whole expo, and I think pretty much if you want to go to the class you just go in.


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

basstardo said:


> Get in on what? The expo?
> 
> Edit: Wait, you mean the classes? They're part of the expo. There are some heavy hitters giving these classes as well. SHould be a good opportunity to learn some new things. The classes run during the whole expo, and I think pretty much if you want to go to the class you just go in.


Thanks. The classes are what I meant lol


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