# Tee Ball casting



## Julius Kelp (Aug 11, 2007)

Hey All, noob here. My compliments to this great site. I've been reading stuff here for the past week and have enjoyed the variety and enthusiasm of the discussions. Great info, great people, great Scott, I wanna go fishin! 



I've been fishing for a few years on my annual vacation to Nags Head. I've always used a an 8 foot Shakespeare rod/spinner combo, but this year I decided to get a little braver and get me an inexpensive but genuine surf set up. I limited myself to $100 and got a Daiwa Eliminator 13', and a Penn Silverado spinning reel. The reel's a bit small but holds over 200 yards of 17#, which is good enough for me for the time being. 

Anyway, I've been practicing casting (it's whole different feel than an 8 footer!) using a tee ball which I wrapped in a wire "cage" I made for it. It weighs 5 oz. I can throw it about 270 feet but I assume using a real weight it would travel farther. 

Anyone have any ideas how much distance I might be losing using the Tee ball? 

I know that's not exactly the most compelling question in surf fishing but I'll think of better ones and try and contribute what little I know as I think of stuff. :redface:


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## Stevie Wonder (Apr 20, 2007)

Welcome Julius, IMHO I believe 50%. I use a tennis ball with 4 or 5oz. sinker inside & field cast. I can only throw it roughly 225' "Resistance" What is most important is getting our "Technique" finely tuned. I would not be concerned about how much distance you're getting at this time. There are some good folks here who have shared their knowledge & will hopefully chime in. FWIW, hitting 275' is decent! For most fishing applications the action is usually no more than 100yds. By the way, what is a tee ball? I'm a Brooklyn Boy! Tight Lines, Stevie:fishing:


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## ZZiplex (Aug 10, 2007)

Hi
Go to YouTube at the internet. There a lot of casting video's. Also from Tommy, he's a distance caster writing at this site.
You have to learn casting in the right way and you distance will be improved. 
Good luck


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## Julius Kelp (Aug 11, 2007)

Thanks for the tips and info. I practiced again but with a 3oz. sinker and was easily over a 300 feet. I've actually watched a video of Neil Mackellow demonstrating the pendulum cast but I'm quite ready to try that out on a 13 footer. I'll check out the Tommy video too. 

BTW, a Tee ball is soft rubber baseball which kids use a lot when they start playing baseball. Instead of having kids getting beaned by inexperienced pitchers, they hit the ball off a tee, hence the name.


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## Julius Kelp (Aug 11, 2007)

Well I watched a few of Tommy's vids and they helped a lot. Unfortunately I was concentrating so much on getting my step and timing right I forgot to tighten the drag and I sliced the devil out of my finger. No blood, the line cauterized it, but it stung. Peroxide and super glue did the trick though. I think some duct tape might be in order. :redface: 

BTW I still had one of my best throws on that cast even though I took something off it when I felt my finger being cut. My form was better and might be what caused the drag to give. I just need to remember to crank down on the drag before getting aggressive.


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

Julius Kelp said:


> I can throw it about 270 feet but I assume using a real weight it would travel farther.


Julius - your casting is plenty....95% of fishing is hunting down the species your targeting. This employs understanding their turf. Learn to read the beach - spot the sloughs / cuts and bars.
Just respect the advice and the locals when you are on the beach.

The distance part will come thru practice and patience.


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## Julius Kelp (Aug 11, 2007)

> Julius - your casting is plenty....95% of fishing is hunting down the species your targeting.


That's good to hear. I've been discouraged in the past as I watched birds diving beyond the reach of my 8 footer. Same with the sandbar. I've been in need of more distance. Now that I've got that I can concentrate on refining my "reading skills". I generally talk to the people at Gary Oliver's Pier or TW's and they get me pointed in the right direction.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

If the tee ball is solid rubber you may be able to rig and modify it as I did with some La Crosse balls- here are the old links.

Just throwing out some possibilities.

http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35411

http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38044&highlight=ball+modifications


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## HellRhaY (Jul 6, 2007)

to prevent slices on your finger, get a breakaway cannon.


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## Julius Kelp (Aug 11, 2007)

Surfcat, very nicely done. I might try that as a more permanent practice rig. The Tee ball is working fine for now but my son didn't want me destroying it so I wrapped it in a wire "cage" of sorts. I like the lacrosse ball idea, or maybe even a billiard ball?  Nah just kidding. 




> I can see me throwing this ball regularly- but will add a word of caution- it has a different timing and feel to it than an actual sinker- I will still throw several times with an actual sinker at the end of the session to retain the feel of the "real deal".


I swear I thought the same thing. I don't know exactly how it feels different but it seems like it's feels more clunky and not quite as responsive, or something. 


Hellray:


> to prevent slices on your finger, get a breakaway cannon.


LOL Indeed. I've already decided to get one. I won't have it for this trip but it's gonna become part of my set up. It's a clever little device.


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## FishinAddiction (May 9, 2006)

Nserch4Drum said:


> Julius - your casting is plenty....95% of fishing is hunting down the species your targeting. This employs understanding their turf. Learn to read the beach - spot the sloughs / cuts and bars.
> Just respect the advice and the locals when you are on the beach.
> 
> The distance part will come thru practice and patience.


Truer words have never been spoken (even though they weren't TECHINICALLY "spoken" LOL )

But Al is dead on. If you want to be successful in surf fishing, you need to be moving. Cuts, sloughs, troughs, etc are where the fish will be. You do need to understand WHY they are there and WHAT species are there as well. Also fish the tides. This is key....reading the beach can be done at dead low ....i like to think of it as scouting....


The only time you will need strong distance is if you find a nice cut in the second bar....in which case 98% of casters cant reach that from the beach anyway, so I wouldn't be worried about that too much .


FA


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## Redhorse (Mar 1, 2006)

Welcome aboard Julius! Glad you found us. 


Funny you guys are talking about tee balls and tennis balls for practice...I finally broke down and bought some tennis balls yesterday and rigged up a practice ball. Poked a snap swivel through to tie onto, and a slit to open up for changing the weights inside. Finally got tired of burying the weights into the ground and having to walk out and pluck it out every few casts  . The tennis ball sure worked well for yesterdays practice session. Deffinately changes the feel of things though! 

I lost about 15-20 yds with the tennis ball vs just a 4 oz weight.


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## ZZiplex (Aug 10, 2007)

Redhorse, that is pretty good; the distance you lost! Wish I could say that. Casting with ball is much used learning pendulum cast en otg (off the ground cast) You learn the right way to cast withoud being worried about distance. Good luck at all.


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## Julius Kelp (Aug 11, 2007)

Fishin Addiction, agreed. Since I only go once a year I haven't had a lot of opportunity to learn as much as I would like about recognizing good fishing spots, but I've read a lot of tips and experiences of seasoned veterans and know some of the basic things to look for. 

One thing I'm not familiar with is how to recognize a rip or break in the sandbar. I'm also unsure how to identify a trough except that they're usually behind and in front of sandbars. 

What's a slough? What's a cut?


Basically I'm all ears. Anyone with any wisdom or knowledge to impart is more than welcome to do it here. 

I just don't wanna ask stupid questions that people will laugh at and tell me to take up another hobby.


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## FishinAddiction (May 9, 2006)

run a search for "reading the beach" and what turns up will answer all of your questions.


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## Julius Kelp (Aug 11, 2007)

Aye, good tip Fish Addict. Like Poppy over at Stripers online? Some very good beach reading there.


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## Redhorse (Mar 1, 2006)

> Redhorse, that is pretty good; the distance you lost! Wish I could say that.


Well ZZiplex...i'm not so proud of it. In my mind it speaks more of my pitiful casting technique, since I can only cast a little farther using just the weight without the drag of a tennis ball  

I'm still using a modified OTG for my best distance. When I practice the traditional OTG my accuracy and distance both go to crap :--|


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## ZZiplex (Aug 10, 2007)

Hello Red Horse

One advise to you: my cast now is much better since I practise with the video from Mr Tommy (the OTG video) You find it at this site (distance casting abec 5 in a abu 6500).
I practise for about 3 weeks now and I casting distance is much better now, (the finisch and my footwork). 
Very much succes with it!!
Have nice day


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## Julius Kelp (Aug 11, 2007)

Speaking of foot work, I had some trouble getting my rhythm when shifting from the 2:00 to 10:00 position. I finally figured out that the initial movement (at least for me) requires that I do a slight hop forward on my back foot, much like a shot putter does at the beginning of a throw. As I make the hop I move my front foot from 2 to 10. In fact I think the form required in casting is very similar to that in the shot put and the discus as well. And of course the bend and recoil of the rod is comparable to pole vaulting. 

Does it sound like I'm making a pitch for distance casting to become an olympic sport? Hmm... I could really get into that.


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## FishinAddiction (May 9, 2006)

I was a pitcher in high school and my movement is similar to a pitchers body rotation when casting....I load up my back leg, drive forward with it, and then let my arms and body follow around it and i finish with that back leg, once unloaded, swinging around to the front for the finish....heres a pic of me coming into the finish of my cast....the right foot ends up planting on the ground


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## FishinAddiction (May 9, 2006)

*is 451' w/ 8nbait good?*

i just casted that today on my inferno/525


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*150 yds on 8 & bait*

is quite good, well above average.

Now for the better news- there is a lot of room to get more distance, based on the previous picture and explanation of your follow thru.

This isn't meant to be criticism- but to help you out and maybe get even more yards out of your cast.

While the back leg coming over and across may be desirable during the follow thru on a baseball pitch, it is indicative of a power leak in distance casting.

It is evident in most beginning (and some that simply never get out of the habit) casters and the reason it usually happens is trying to hit the rod hard with a push. It happens to me all the time when I'm concentrating to hard on the push and forget all about the other (just as important)half of the hit- which is the pull.

While some parts of casting are indeed similar in some aspects to other sports- it also has some very unique aspects all its own.

Watch any beginning caster try to hit the rod hard and inevitably the back foot comes off the ground- in order to stay up with and maintain balance of the rest of the body. 

Your right in that the back leg has to load up and push off into the cast. But just as important the leading hand and arm have to *pull* the butt in towards the body at the same time the upper hand is pushing the rod forward.

Try this- stand on your front foot with your trailing foot in the air. Reach out and try to pull a stationary object towards you- it doesn't matter what object, just something that requires a little exertion to get it to move toward you. Now plant that back foot on the ground and leaning back see how much easier it is to pull the object (girfriend   ,whatever) towards you.

Hopefully this should demonstarte the need to keep BOTH feet planted on the ground throughout the cast. Review some of Tommy's videos- he hits the rod as hard as anyone I know- but at the most you might see his back heel come off the ground- never have I seen his entire foot leave the ground. I'm only talking about the hit- yes their are set up steps used to get the body in position-prior to powering into the hit.

Your getting good distance now- but work on pushing and pulling simultaneously- you'll be hitting bigger distances- I have no doubt about it. 

One other thing, you probably noticed Tommy and maybe some other casters take quite a big step when setting up for the hit. In a way this helps keep the body balanced and centered between the feet, this makes it harder to get the weight to far forward- requiring the back leg to inevitably slide up to keep up. Too wide of a stance can be detrimental as well- so don't overdo it. Experiment and find out what works for you.


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## FishinAddiction (May 9, 2006)

*Mark*



Surf Cat said:


> is quite good, well above average.
> 
> Now for the better news- there is a lot of room to get more distance, based on the previous picture and explanation of your follow thru.
> 
> ...


That was a FREAKIN AWESOME post man! Ive never had it explained to me in that way before but now I get it. Thanks a ton dude! I'm going to go practice that now!

Also, what do you think I could realistically expect footage wise out of my distance now + correct form? Is there a number I should shoot for?


FA


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Surf Cat said:


> is quite good, well above average.
> 
> Now for the better news- there is a lot of room to get more distance, based on the previous picture and explanation of your follow thru.
> 
> ...


Good info Mark. If you are going to be doing any field casting in the next few weeks let me know. Its getting close to time to get ready for the drummies.


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## FishinAddiction (May 9, 2006)

Cdog said:


> Good info Mark. If you are going to be doing any field casting in the next few weeks let me know. Its getting close to time to get ready for the drummies.


Yeah same here bro! I would love to meet up with ya and get some pointers.....maybe if ol CDog is there, he and I can bury the hatchet as well:beer:


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## ZZiplex (Aug 10, 2007)

You absolutely right surf cat! But that is the difficult thing of casting. The most important thing of casting is in my opinion: the timing! You have to do some thing in the wright way in a blink of a eye. Feet, pulling, pushing, looking at the sky: You have to look the way you want your lead is flying! 
Have nice day!And catch the big fish: we dont have them in our country.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*thanks Guys*

I'd like nothing better than to get together with anyone interested to work on casting.

The issue I've run into os of late is where?. Dory park fields are out, I believe they are currently knee deep in soybeans  

I heard ( but haven't confirmed) that the field where Tommy held his seminar in VA beach is now off limits.

The National casting championship is coming up in early October and I can use all the practice I can get. ( Not to mention as Cdog noted- time to get ready for the drummies.)

If anyone knows of a suitable practice facility let me know and I'll check it out.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

ZZiplex said:


> You absolutely right surf cat! But that is the difficult thing of casting. The most important thing of casting is in my opinion: the timing! You have to do some thing in the wright way in a blink of a eye. Feet, pulling, pushing, looking at the sky: You have to look the way you want your lead is flying!
> Have nice day!And catch the big fish: we dont have them in our country.


Have to agree with you there Zziplex, even when we know what we want our body to do during a cast it is often times difficult to get the body to cooperate- and split second timing becomes all the more crucial the more OOMph we try to put into the cast.


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## Redhorse (Mar 1, 2006)

Well...I've got plenty of places to practice. If you guys want to come over and give me some pointers I'll provide the BBQ :spam: and beverages :beer:...it's only about 14 hrs from Carolina Beach  .

Sucks, but I got nobody to practice with...but all the room I could possibly want to do it. Multiple fields that are ideal to cast in...just nobody to enjoy them with me. I'm gonna have to have someone video my cast so you guys can see what I'm doing/not doing.

ZZiplex, I've watched Tommy's video...and it helped a lot. I just havn't committed enough time to getting my timing correct with the traditional OTG. My modified OTG cast is what I spend the most time on since it has been developing into the best distances for me  I know that's the wrong way to work at it, but I got nobody here to tell me different


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

:


Redhorse said:


> Well...I've got plenty of places to practice. If you guys want to come over and give me some pointers I'll provide the BBQ :spam: and beverages :beer:...it's only about 14 hrs from Carolina Beach  .
> 
> Sucks, but I got nobody to practice with...but all the room I could possibly want to do it. Multiple fields that are ideal to cast in...just nobody to enjoy them with me. I'm gonna have to have someone video my cast so you guys can see what I'm doing/not doing.
> 
> ZZiplex, I've watched Tommy's video...and it helped a lot. I just havn't committed enough time to getting my timing correct with the traditional OTG. My modified OTG cast is what I spend the most time on since it has been developing into the best distances for me  I know that's the wrong way to work at it, but I got nobody here to tell me different


that's a hell of a road trip.


Whatcha think, Mark and Cdog?.... Me and Mark got the hard drive cam corders.....multiple angles at the same time. 

Hard to say 'no' to free food and beverages


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## FishinAddiction (May 9, 2006)

I have a wide open field we can go to


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## ShoreFisher72 (Jul 13, 2005)

FishinAddiction said:


> I was a pitcher in high school and my movement is similar to a pitchers body rotation when casting....I load up my back leg, drive forward with it, and then let my arms and body follow around it and i finish with that back leg, once unloaded, swinging around to the front for the finish....heres a pic of me coming into the finish of my cast....the right foot ends up planting on the ground


looks like your gonna bust your a$$.


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## FishinAddiction (May 9, 2006)

throwin outta my shoes!


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## ZZiplex (Aug 10, 2007)

Guys, you are always welcome to practise casting here. From my city to Miami only 9 hours by plane???!! But nice women here!!!! And Heineken beer!

By the way: I always have a problem with my finish. I go into overhead instead of finish by crossing the rod. One cast I did it right and then I had what Mr Tommy said: I cast a abu reel with 28/100 (tournament oil and spool full loaded) To less of mag and the line broke. Why: I have more power on the rod by casting the proper OTG instead of fifty fifty OTG/overhead. I had to put more mag on my reel starting the cast.


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## FishinAddiction (May 9, 2006)

i cant drink hiny......its like a damn laxative for me.....but when i think about, there isnt much that isnt that way with me


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## Redhorse (Mar 1, 2006)

Oh man...I like Heineken, nice and hoppy. That and Grolsh too, somewhat similar in character. My go to brew right now is Goose Island IPA brewed over in Chicago (can't hold that fact against the beer  ) 

Lots of hops!! :beer:

And for those brave souls there is always Stone Brewing Company's "Arrogant Bastard Ale" it's kind of like a cross between an IPA and a Bock  

Mmmm good!




> that's a hell of a road trip.


Nserch4Drum...you know I'll take u Muskie fishing while your here....


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## Julius Kelp (Aug 11, 2007)

You said it Redhorse. Hoppy beers are the way to go. My personal favorite is Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. Try it if you haven't. It's good for breakfast even!  

And yes Redhorse, I feel for ya. I go over to the school across the street by myself. I have to admit I feel a little embarrassed too when the occasional person appears and ask if I'm catching anything. 


FA, I figure it probably isn't my place to suggest anything about form, given that I'm new to the sport, but since Surf Cat mentioned it, I noticed your lifted back leg and instinctivly thought "energy loss". Still, 421 feet beats the pants off me. Sounds like you're on the cusp of going big time. 

I got a taste of what a difference proper form and timing can make when I was practicing the other day, I was just starting to get things working together when I cut my finger. On that particular cast I could tell as I was uncoiling that I was doing things right. The drag setting had been moderately tight and I'd thrown a few already with no slippage but like I said before, I think the extra power on that particular cast caused the drag to slip.


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## FishinAddiction (May 9, 2006)

correction...............451'


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## Julius Kelp (Aug 11, 2007)

See, you're gettin better already!


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*missed this earlier*



> Also, what do you think I could realistically expect footage wise out of my distance now + correct form? Is there a number I should shoot for?


Hate to say it but unfortunately don't expect huge gains right off the bat. If you ease off the push to concentrate on the pull your distance might even go down a bit at first. Like anything else it takes time and patience, esp when dealing with weaning ourselves of bad habits.

The good part is that once you got the correct form down, your numbers will improve- and it may seem like it actually takes less effort to hit the bigger numbers, once everything starts to gel.

IF your current best is 451', shoot for 455'. We all hit walls where it seems like we can't get over to that next 10 extra feet, then all of a sudden boom, it clicks and we might hit a big gain. Its just as easy to slide backwards on days when we're tired, our timings off, reels not quite tuned right, or what have you. There are so many variables that make it hard to replicate the same cast twice in a row, much less with varying conditions on different days. Guess all I'm saying is to take progress as it comes, but if you keep practicing, it will happen.


pm me the details on that field you mentioned, if it is suitable maybe we can set it up for a practice session in the not too distant future, tho I won't mind if its a couple of weeks down the road- hopefully things will start to cool down, weather wise, before too long.

:fishing:


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## ZZiplex (Aug 10, 2007)

Absolutely right surfcat! 
I have started now learning casting OTG with reel low. At first I lost the direction, I couldnt casting straight away, the lead goes very far to the left or to the right but now it is going much better. But I have a question about casting with reel low: when I'am casting I always have a problem with my right wrist. The line is cutting deep in my right (dont know to write it in good english, hope you understand it, sorry)
More distance casters have that problem and when it is, is there a solution for?
Thx very much again
With regards


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

ZZiplex said:


> Absolutely right surfcat!
> I have started now learning casting OTG with reel low. At first I lost the direction, I couldnt casting straight away, the lead goes very far to the left or to the right but now it is going much better. But I have a question about casting with reel low: when I'am casting I always have a problem with my right wrist. The line is cutting deep in my right (dont know to write it in good english, hope you understand it, sorry)
> More distance casters have that problem and when it is, is there a solution for?
> Thx very much again
> With regards


Ahh yes, the dreaded line burn. This can be a problem for many low reel users. I may defer to Tommy to see if he has a better solution. Will repost the question in a new thread.


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## Redhorse (Mar 1, 2006)

> At first I lost the direction, I couldnt casting straight away, the lead goes very far to the left or to the right


That's exactly where I am with my OTG... 

Headin to Leesville Reservoir tonight for a couple days of Muskie fishin' so I can get my bad surf casting form out of my head  

:fishing: 

Prefishing a while tonight...then our Nite Bite contes starts Sat 6 pm and ends 7 am Sunday.

Wish me luck...:beer:


Oh...and I've had the Sierra Nevada Pale Ale Julius, I like their IPA even better. But I had their Summer Fest for the first time this year and it was super tasty good


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