# Can rods be converted?



## lil red jeep (Aug 17, 2007)

Just wondering if a rod that is designed as a spinning rod be converted to a casting rod, and what would it take? Other than the usual larger 1st eye on a spinner, what is the main difference between the rods. Maybe this should have been titled "Stupid Question". Thanks


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

The rod has no idea what it is supposed to be. The bend of the rod is determined by guide placement and the action of the rod. Makes no difference at all how you wrap them. Purely a marketing thing.


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

I am no expert here but I have heard that some blanks are spined differently depending on the type. So the spine will be opposite the guides for casting and along with the guides for spinning (I may have that backwards) anyway if you convert a rod you may need/want to put the guides on the other side.

Again I may be totally off on this so hopefully someone will chime in and tell me how ignorant I am ... happens all the time anyway 

good luck


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

I think spining is overrated, but that is one of the great debates in rod building. No blank is perfectly straight and just because you build on a certain side of the spine doesn't mean you're going to get the best results. As long as you build on the straightest line on the blank, you're fine.


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## junkmansj (Jul 23, 2005)

Deleted


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## mud (Sep 23, 2007)

basstardo said:


> The rod has no idea what it is supposed to be. The bend of the rod is determined by guide placement and the action of the rod. Makes no difference at all how you wrap them. Purely a marketing thing.


yeh makes since :beer:


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## jcreamer (Mar 6, 2001)

Splineing??? is from what I hear is an on going argument that will never be proven. I have a couple rods that I made for spining with spinning
guides but casts better with a conventional reel. From what I can guess it has to do with how I spaced the guides when I made the rods. Doesn't a lot of it have more to do with how the rod is built, the spacing, and placment?
I have changed one rod and it works okay.

JohnC


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## fishbait (Nov 11, 2005)

If you're converting a spinning to a conventional, there are a few differences. First of all, hopefully your blank is not an ultralight or something really noodle like. It won't make for a good conventional blank. Also, conventional rods usually have more guides than spinners do. So you will probably have to tear all the guides off and rewrap the blank with the appropriate number and spacing. Next is the reel seat. You may or may not have to replace this. The threads of most real seats on spinning rods come from the bottom up and that means you won't have a trigger (if you wanted one in the first place). Test fit it with the reel you plan on using it with to see if it works for you. If not then you will need to tear the existing seat off and replace it.


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

All the guides will have to come off the top forgrip will have to come off and the reel seat will have to come off. Then every thing will have to be replace 180 degrees out. to much work for me to do just buy or make yourself another rod.


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## Clyde (Oct 18, 2003)

really no need to change the reel seat, some people (fish hunter for one) actually prefer their reel seats "upside down".


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

for screw seats, i prefer it the threads on top.
locking the reel downward into the fixed half.

i find it secures it tighter then with the threads on bottom locking upwards.


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

The reel seat all comes down to personal preference. I like mine to lock up towards the tip because my hand doesn't interfere with the threads that way.


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## ffemtreed (Mar 29, 2007)

basstardo said:


> The reel seat all comes down to personal preference. I like mine to lock up towards the tip because my hand doesn't interfere with the threads that way.


Same here! I hate my hand rubbing on those threads.


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## xfreemanx (Oct 26, 2006)

Question: How do I find the spine of a rod and where should the guides be if its spinning vs conventional?


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## Dickie (Jun 16, 2007)

Place bottom of the rod on a flat surface take the tip and lay it on your finger roll the rod 360 it will pop in to place the spine will be faceing down .spinn eyes go on the other side of the spine conv. the eyes run down the spine this is the natural bend of the rod


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Ahh, the great spining debate.


My own thoughts , I don't worry about it TOO much, but I do have a roller bearing setup to check the spine of every rod I build, I also check for straightness.

THere is a lot of misinformation on the subject and I don't want to be blamed for further propagation of misinformation, but I will add this.

Spining was originally thought to be necesaary to set the rod up so that the natural tendency of the rod was to bend "toward" the fish when playing a fish. The idea is that this would aid the angler and cause less fatigue in an extended battle. (Meaning your not fighting the fish AND fighting the rods tendency to want to twist to flex to it's "weak" side.

Reality is if your more interested in casting distance and accuracy- you may want to make that more of a consideration in deciding how to set the guides. The rod bends in one direction while casting- the opposite while fighting the fish- so what is more important to you ?

Lastly- if a rod doesn't have a noticable spine, but is noticably crooked- set the guides on the straightest axis for the best look and performance.


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## OBXJeepGuy (Jan 25, 2008)

I use a spining reel on my heavers for surfishing, and have been trying out a few rods my dad has built for casting reels. I have found that I am actually getting less line slap (actually none at all) through the guides using my spinning reel on the casting rods as opposed to my spinning rods which have the larger guides. I am sure that if you are converting a spinner to casting, you would definately want to put smaller bottom guides.....probably help during the fight as your line is not pulling from as large of an angle on that bottom guide.


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## Charlie2 (May 2, 2007)

*Rod Conversions*

Take the spinning rod off. Turn it over and put a conventional reel on, thread the line through the guides and go fishing. 

It works for a bunch of people. I see them every day and they seem happy(obvivious) to the situation.

Personally, I use the proper? rod for its use. 

Spining? Try to sell someone a crooked rod. C2


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## nomadfl (Jan 7, 2007)

Charlie2 said:


> Take the spinning rod off. Turn it over and put a conventional reel on, thread the line through the guides and go fishing.
> 
> It works for a bunch of people. I see them every day and they seem happy(obvivious) to the situation.
> 
> ...



Charlie, good morning you old fart

About the above post .....sometimes when you take the spinning reel off ....you don't have to turn the rod over ...it's already in the up position ....just my thoughts on a lousy weather day...weekend....all week ...where are those southern breezes???


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## Charlie2 (May 2, 2007)

*Rods*

Richard;

I thought that you guys from 'up there' liked the cold and ice fishing?

I had to read your post twice to get the 'Spinning reel already on the top". I do see that a lot also.


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## david123 (Jun 24, 2004)

Years ago there WAS a difference between casting rods and spinners. Casting rods were two piece and the handles were seperate and attached via a ferrule on the end of the blank itself. The blank was reinforced in the area of the butt end and a bit forward. This was to take the strain at the very end of the blank where it attached to the handle. Spinning rods have been pretty much blank through the hande affairs since they came out with few exceptions. 

Now most everything is blank through the handle so you can build whatever you want.


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## Sandcrab (Mar 20, 2002)

xfreemanx said:


> Question: How do I find the spine of a rod and where should the guides be if its spinning vs conventional?


I use Al Goldberg's technique for bulding all my rods and the spine relationship. All my rods have the spine on the bottom of the rod. I have quoted this from his article on SOL. Very good information. I have not had any problems building all my rods in this fashion whether ultralight, bass rods, metal-slinging rods, or heavers...

Sandcrab

=====================
From Al Goldberg's article on SOL "Building the Perfect Rod: Part 3 - Guide Placement"

"The Spine and Guide Placement Rod building tradition has been that for conventional rods the spine, reel and guides are placed on the top of the rod on the zero degree axis and for spinning the guides and reel are placed on the bottom of the rod on the 180-degree axis opposite to the spine. This traditional placement of the guides in relation to the spine has changed in current practice where casting is a prime consideration.

When casting for distance to reach the fish, albeit from the surf, boat or fly casting, it is essential that the lure reach the feeding zone of the fish. Therefore, maximum casting efficiency becomes essential. "You need to reach them before you can beach them."

Therefore, to achieve maximum efficiency and power in your cast the spine should be on the bottom of the rod regardless if it's set up for spinning or conventional. Then: 

- For Surf Spinning - align the spine, reel seat and guides on the bottom of the blank.

- For Conventional Surf - the spine is on the 180 degree axis and the reel seat and guides are on the 0 degree axis.

If you are building a conventional boat rod then the spine, reel seat and guides should be on the 0 degree axis on top of the rod."


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## xfreemanx (Oct 26, 2006)

Looks like there is some wisdom behing the spine concept. I have noticed that when I try to lift heavy loads on a spinning rod which I used with a conventional, there is more sideway flex.


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## HellRhaY (Jul 6, 2007)

xfreemanx said:


> Looks like there is some wisdom behing the spine concept. I have noticed that when I try to lift heavy loads on a spinning rod which I used with a conventional, there is more sideway flex.


then it wasn't built right. most over the shelf rods are that way. if it's a custom rod, the builder was a moron or you didn't tell him you want it dual rung.
if you want to build a rod where you want to use it both as a spinning or conventional you have to account for the spine. spining isn't necessary on spinning rods, however it still plays a role on conventional rods.


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

Yep, that is the true sign that the rod was definately built off spine. The rod should not bend to the side under a load like that. Notice how the rod is trying to roll to the spine in his hands.

CB


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

As fo the topic, I have rebuilt a few rods from spinners to casters and I can tell you it is alot of work. Unless you are using a blank that is no longer available it is not worth the trouble.

CB


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## ScottWood (May 16, 2005)

curtisb said:


> Yep, that is the true sign that the rod was definately built off spine. The rod should not bend to the side under a load like that. Notice how the rod is trying to roll to the spine in his hands.
> 
> CB


Oh this ought to be a fun one - I just gotta jump in on it. 

That is absolutely NOT a sign that the rod was built "off spine" but every bit due to the fact that it's a conventional rod under a heavy load. ALL CONVENTIONAL RODS will do this under a heavy load - some more than others depending on a number of factors (spine having such a small effect that it probably shouldn't even be considered) opcorn:


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## Rockfish1 (Apr 8, 2005)

ScottWood said:


> Oh this ought to be a fun one - I just gotta jump in on it.
> 
> That is absolutely NOT a sign that the rod was built "off spine" but every bit due to the fact that it's a conventional rod under a heavy load. ALL CONVENTIONAL RODS will do this under a heavy load - some more than others depending on a number of factors (spine having such a small effect that it probably shouldn't even be considered) opcorn:


well why don't you explain to us mortals why this would happen if it wasn't off spine... other then it was a POS blank... I'd sure like to hear this one...


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

ScottWood said:


> Oh this ought to be a fun one - I just gotta jump in on it.
> 
> That is absolutely NOT a sign that the rod was built "off spine" but every bit due to the fact that it's a conventional rod under a heavy load. ALL CONVENTIONAL RODS will do this under a heavy load - some more than others depending on a number of factors (spine having such a small effect that it probably shouldn't even be considered) opcorn:


Out of all the rods I have built, I haven't had one yet do this on even the biggest fish I have hooked. So explain again how my quote was wrong to us.


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

I gotta agree with Scott on this one. This argument is as old as the hills and is akin to mono vs. braid. 

Read this: http://www.rodbuilding.org/read.php?2,273255,273861#msg-273861

Personally, I think spining a rod is pointless. If it's so important, why don't most major manufacturers spine their rods?


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

basstardo said:


> I gotta agree with Scott on this one. This argument is as old as the hills and is akin to mono vs. braid.
> 
> Read this: http://www.rodbuilding.org/read.php?2,273255,273861#msg-273861
> 
> Personally, I think spining a rod is pointless. If it's so important, why don't most major manufacturers spine their rods?


I would have to say cosmetics and time. But that is also part of buying a custom rod from someone who knows what they are doing. Once again I will state that I have never seen a rod torque to one side if built properly no matter how much load was put on it. So once again I ask to explain why then is the rod in the pic rolling so bad to one side with a straight down angle on the fish if not spined improperly.


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## ScottWood (May 16, 2005)

Rockfish1 said:


> well why don't you explain to us mortals why this would happen if it wasn't off spine... other then it was a POS blank... I'd sure like to hear this one...


Leverage! Put anything on top of "something round" and it will want to roll off - pure and simple. There aren't many POS blanks available these days so that's not really a factor - if it ever was. Additionally, the taller the guide the more there is a chance of the tip rolling over. Unless you build on a broomstick (hopefully you'll agree that it's not a very efficient fish catching device), the tip's gonna want to roll under load. Just because a blank has a softer tip, doesn't mean it's a POS.

Wanna keep the tip from rolling? Build a spiral wrap - but wait - that's "ugly" so comsumers won't bite.


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## ScottWood (May 16, 2005)

curtisb said:


> Out of all the rods I have built, I haven't had one yet do this on even the biggest fish I have hooked. So explain again how my quote was wrong to us.


Every rod you've built conventional "rolled" over to a certain degree whether you noticed or not. 

I've consciously noticed the guides rolling on my Century TT Sport Heaver when hooked up to a drum. Century isn't known for putting out bad blanks! That rod is even "spined" in the traditional manner. I built it like that because I "didn't know any better" at the time.


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## Clyde (Oct 18, 2003)

Scott's on the money on this one, spining a rod is useless and any rod with the guides on top will roll, period. I still spine m rods, but only because customers expect it and it only takes a second to do it.


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

ScottWood said:


> Every rod you've built conventional "rolled" over to a certain degree whether you noticed or not.
> 
> I've consciously noticed the guides rolling on my Century TT Sport Heaver when hooked up to a drum. Century isn't known for putting out bad blanks! That rod is even "spined" in the traditional manner. I built it like that because I "didn't know any better" at the time.


Hmm, I guess I never noticed you standing over my shoulder everytime I was bringing in a fish. But I guess how else would you know what my rods were doing. All I have to say is since we can't agreement on this subject, then build them how you want to and I will build them the way I want to.


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## ScottWood (May 16, 2005)

curtisb said:


> Hmm, I guess I never noticed you standing over my shoulder everytime I was bringing in a fish. But I guess how else would you know what my rods were doing. All I have to say is since we can't agreement on this subject, then build them how you want to and I will build them the way I want to.


I don't need to stand over your shoulder to know that physics applies 

"To each his own" I heartily agree.


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## ScottWood (May 16, 2005)

ScottWood said:


> I don't need to stand over your shoulder to know that physics applies
> 
> "To each his own" I heartily agree.


Be sure not to misinterpret what I'm trying to say. If the guides are on top of the rod, rollover will occur. Depending on the action, power and other properties of the blank, and the amount of load placed on the rod, the rollover could be negligible - but it's there.


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

Well Mr. Wood it seems your the kind of person who just loves to argue so I'm finished with you. Know matter what I could say it wouldn't change you mind anyway. Like I said before, you build them your way and I will build them my way.


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

I don't think Scott is trying to be argumentative, he's just trying to make the point that, like it or not, there is SOME roll on any conventional rod, whether it's spined or not. Just about any experienced rod builder is going agree on that. It's a simple matter of the force of the line trying to seek the lowest point of the arc. This is why spinning rods don't have this problem.


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## ScottWood (May 16, 2005)

curtisb said:


> Well Mr. Wood it seems your the kind of person who just loves to argue so I'm finished with you. Know matter what I could say it wouldn't change you mind anyway. Like I said before, you build them your way and I will build them my way.


I'm glad you're through with me Mr. B.


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