# Fluorocarbon leaders



## poppop1 (Feb 16, 2004)

Do you think using fluorocarbon leader material really makes a difference when surf fishing?, be specific on the species. What about you red drum pros, do you use fluoro?


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## SmoothLures (Feb 13, 2008)

Makes a decent amount of difference on bottom rigs and in front of lures. I mainly like that it's stiffer so I can use a smaller diameter line on bottom rigs and not have the current tie them in knots.


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## Benji (Nov 19, 2014)

More shark resilience on a cannonball rig, I find I can usually get my lead back with 100# but if sharks are really bad 200# mono is cheaper. A waste on a 2" drum rig. Better for pompano but not a necessity.


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## Redbeard (Feb 25, 2019)

I lost two decent spoons while fishing for Spanish and wish I used anything other than mono. Might've been Spanish or stray Blues in the area, but my line was cut like butter before I knew it


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## SmoothLures (Feb 13, 2008)

Redbeard said:


> I lost two decent spoons while fishing for Spanish and wish I used anything other than mono. Might've been Spanish or stray Blues in the area, but my line was cut like butter before I knew it


Ribbonfish do that a lot. Don't even feel the thump.


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## Benji (Nov 19, 2014)

SmoothLures said:


> Redbeard said:
> 
> 
> > I lost two decent spoons while fishing for Spanish and wish I used anything other than mono. Might've been Spanish or stray Blues in the area, but my line was cut like butter before I knew it
> ...


ribbon fish are delicious as it turns out.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Fluorocarbon is a staple of inshore and offshore fishermen in Florida, for a variety of reasons. Not the least of which is my one of my newer favorite knots, the FG. There is absolutely nothing out there that goes through eyes smoother than an FG. But it doesn't work right with mono.
.
We also have different water down here, and lots of critters that are more visual in their hunting methods. Fish that can see well, can see line well. Some of them care, some don't. I swear by fluoro for pompano and permit, my kid swears by it for snook. Because we use it so much for the fish that we prize, we tend to have it around, and use it for lots of other things that maybe it doesn't matter so much for. I mean, after all, you get use to tying certain knots, in certain ways, and it's just nice to have the consistency in your methods and materials. The notable exception is when we go freshwater canals, and go after snakeheads. That's when my go-to is the absolute antithesis of fluoro. My rig is equipped with 50# braid, and I terminate it with a "bangkok hooker", which is literally just braid makeshifted into a short section of rope.


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## flathead (Dec 18, 2003)

I just had this discussion with an " ancient "..............before fluoro what did people use ? And did they catch fish ?............I used BBG clear or Ande clear before fluoro and never knew I was not catching...........but out of curiosity I have tied several dozen two hook bottom rigs and carolina rigs, half with fluoro and half with BBG clear for a trip in a couple weeks............fishing primarily for pompano,whiting, and flounder..............going to fish two rods side by side,same bait..............and keep a record. I have even rigged two rods, one with Berkley Vanish and one with BBG clear.....I like it mainly for the same reason SL said, it's stiffer and makes my leaders stand out rather than kink up. In that regard 50# fluoro makes excellent two hook pup rigs with 4/0 - 5/0 circles.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

flathead said:


> I just had this discussion with an " ancient "..............before fluoro what did people use ? And did they catch fish ?............


Unfortunately, that's as advanced as some people's logic will reach. We had wool before GoreTex, and it kept people warm. The problem with the "and they still caught fish" logic, is that there was a time when the fisheries were a lot healthier, in a lot of places. There was a day when you could just about catch fish on empty hooks, in some places. But today, most accessible waters are highly pressured, and fish are adapted well enough to be keen to the fact that they're being targeted. If I think I can give myself an advantage, you'd better believe that I'll try to latch onto it. Maybe there's a doubt in some minds - there is none in mine. Where *I* fish, and what *I* fish for, fluoro makes a very big difference. It's OK if some choose not to believe that, I'm not that important. 

Some of the old fellas have the luxury of time behind them. They've caught far more fish than I have, no doubt. But that's not important to me. What's important to me, is what works right now. I don't get as much time on the water to ever even think about being able to bridge the gap. But if I can spend half as much time on the water, and catch twice as many fish, that still means that I'm doing better, and history counts for nothing. And when I say that, I'm talking about the old salt club that meets on my beach. I've heard this all, myself. Even as I'm ready to go home, having caught my limit in the time they're waiting on their first or second fish. "Yeah, I'm not supposed to cast out that far. Uh-huh." "Fluoro is a big waste of money, uh-huh." "Oh sorry, I have to go, I have all these fish to clean, and I want to get it done before Wapner's on."


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## PYeomans (May 20, 2019)

We ancients can be funny like that, we like what we like for reasons that not necessarily logical or productive. Sometimes good enough just is for us.


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## BlaineO (Jan 22, 2001)

It's really all about conditions from what I can determine.

In clearer water, flouro will get more bites. Knots need to be checked with flouro, a great looking knot can just be bad sometimes, even if lubricated when tied. A mystery to me.

In stirred up or murky conditions, I can't see much difference at all.


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

flathead said:


> I just had this discussion with an " ancient "..............before fluoro what did people use ? And did they catch fish ?............I used BBG clear or Ande clear before fluoro and never knew I was not catching...........but out of curiosity I have tied several dozen two hook bottom rigs and carolina rigs, half with fluoro and half with BBG clear for a trip in a couple weeks............fishing primarily for pompano,whiting, and flounder..............going to fish two rods side by side,same bait..............and keep a record. I have even rigged two rods, one with Berkley Vanish and one with BBG clear.....I like it mainly for the same reason SL said, it's stiffer and makes my leaders stand out rather than kink up. In that regard 50# fluoro makes excellent two hook pup rigs with 4/0 - 5/0 circles.


you need to try it with Seagar not vanish


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## Catch This (Nov 19, 2005)

I have been using 30 and 40lb flouro for my version of the “river rig” and bottom rigs for several years. I use the MUTU light wire hooks in size 4 and 2 primarily. At times, I will tie them with Gami 1/0 and 2/0. I do believe the flouro has improved my catch rate on puppy drum, sea mullet, and spot. I have caught quite a few pups on the light wire hooks with Gulp swimming mullet; I will also add that I have had over slot pups straighten the MUTU light wire hooks. Moreover, I use flouro leaders on all of my spinning reels, mostly 20lb. On my conventional Reels I use either Ande or BBG 50lb mono for the shock leaders.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

PYeomans said:


> We ancients can be funny like that, we like what we like for reasons that not necessarily logical or productive. Sometimes good enough just is for us.


I'm very clear on that.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

BlaineO said:


> Knots need to be checked with flouro, a great looking knot can just be bad sometimes, even if lubricated when tied.


Really? Man, I'd have to hear this from more than one customer, because if I have any complaints, it's that the stuff gets all gnarled and damn near impossible to back out, when it's going wrong. The fact that it does hold knots, is the biggest reason why I use it for FG knots in leaders. Fluoro is the only stuff that braid "bites" into properly. Caveat: not all braid works will fluoro.


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## flathead (Dec 18, 2003)

Just for the record, I have been using Seaguar Blue Label for my two hook and carolina rigs since it came out,20#,30#,40#,and 50#.............my original response was simply to say I was going to conduct an experiment in a couple weeks,fishing for three species only, to compare fishing with fluoro vs BBG clear.........nothing more should be read into it..


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## SmoothLures (Feb 13, 2008)

solid7 said:


> Really? Man, I'd have to hear this from more than one customer, because if I have any complaints, it's that the stuff gets all gnarled and damn near impossible to back out, when it's going wrong. The fact that it does hold knots, is the biggest reason why I use it for FG knots in leaders. Fluoro is the only stuff that braid "bites" into properly. Caveat: not all braid works will fluoro.


Never heard of or had bad knots that look good. I use Seaguar blue label exclusively.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

flathead said:


> Just for the record, I have been using Seaguar Blue Label for my two hook and carolina rigs since it came out,20#,30#,40#,and 50#.............my original response was simply to say I was going to conduct an experiment in a couple weeks,fishing for three species only, to compare fishing with fluoro vs BBG clear.........nothing more should be read into it..


Understood. I wasn't being accusatory or calling you out. I've just not heard that complaint before. So nothing in it...


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## Gorge (Jun 13, 2017)

I've had clinch knots in Seaguar loosen up before. I just check them every once in a while.


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## Redbeard (Feb 25, 2019)

Gorge said:


> I've had clinch knots in Seaguar loosen up before. I just check them every once in a while.


I recently switched to Figure 8 and Centauri knots after having trouble with clinch knots slipping apart or not tightening up properly on heavier test lines
Figure 8: http://www.101knots.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/How-to-Tie-a-Figure-8-Knot.jpg
Centauri: https://www.fishing.org/custom/domain_2/image_files/sitemgr_photo_431.png


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## Benji (Nov 19, 2014)

solid7 said:


> Fluorocarbon is a staple of inshore and offshore fishermen in Florida, for a variety of reasons. Not the least of which is my one of my newer favorite knots, the FG. There is absolutely nothing out there that goes through eyes smoother than an FG. But it doesn't work right with mono.


I have zero problems with a fg or pr knot braid to mono. If anything it bites better in the mono, and your tag end will melt with a nice little bubble if you burn your leader tag.


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## flathead (Dec 18, 2003)

I have finishing nails, different diameters, hammered into my fly tying bench, heads filed smooth,that I use to cinch all my leaders............haven't had a 3 or 4 turn clinch or a snell slip yet.........


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## BlaineO (Jan 22, 2001)

solid7 said:


> Really? Man, I'd have to hear this from more than one customer, because if I have any complaints, it's that the stuff gets all gnarled and damn near impossible to back out, when it's going wrong. The fact that it does hold knots, is the biggest reason why I use it for FG knots in leaders. Fluoro is the only stuff that braid "bites" into properly. Caveat: not all braid works will fluoro.


 I usually tie mono to flouro in salt water. Could make all the difference.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

BlaineO said:


> I usually tie mono to flouro in salt water. Could make all the difference.


I suppose it could. We usually fish brackish to near inshore, most of the time. Braid is king. But I'm not gonna say that mono to fluoro might not be better somewhere else.


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

If theres light in the water, it makes a difference .... I test Fluoro just about everyday here on Hatteras island ..... no doubt it producing more quality fish ... on my faverite rig .... good to see you back Solid7 ....


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

River said:


> If theres light in the water, it makes a difference .... I test Fluoro just about everyday here on Hatteras island ..... no doubt it producing more quality fish ... on my faverite rig .... good to see you back Solid7 ....


Thanks, River, you also. Hope business is well for you.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

flathead said:


> I have finishing nails, different diameters, hammered into my fly tying bench, heads filed smooth,that I use to cinch all my leaders............haven't had a 3 or 4 turn clinch or a snell slip yet.........


I use a bench vise sometimes, to cinch up snells on drum hooks you put the tag end of the leader material in the vice and put your finger in the bend of the hook and apply major pressure, I also use Bench Vise to crimp Drum Hooks sometimes, no fail crimp when you run the crimp twice through the Vice. Sometimes I also put 1/0 or 2/0 Drum barrel swivels in the vice to put a Gorilla cinch on the knot.

I do not use Fluoro for Drum rigs, Sharks prefer Fluoro over Berkeley Big Game all day and all night long. 

I can not seem to get excited about Sea Mullet or Pompano fishing much so, a spool of Seaguar Fluoro lasts me a good while.

I do use Fluoro for throwing metal and for jigs and gulp type lures.

I did quit fishing until September when I will go back to the OBX for Fall Drum.

There is a creek within walking distance from my home, there are Bluegills and Small Mouths in the creek and I keep threatening to go there with a Loomis 6 weight I use for fresh water fishing, but Like Trump it has been an idle threat this year. I cut my teeth on a Herters 8wt Fiberglas Fly rod in the 1960's and learned to Double Haul, I also learned to Triple Haul which occurs when you let your backcast nest in the bushes along the stream or Pond. I also threaten to bring my 9wt to the OBX and catch me a Paper Drum with it, most likely out of a Boat so it will not count........

There is a Secret Spot on the Potomac River where you have to walk in 2 miles to get to a creek Mouth entering the Potomac at a spot boats do not venture. My biggest Smallmouth on a Fly at this Creek Mouth in the month of August was about 4 pounds. The Big Smallies come into the creek mouth to enjoy the 15 degree cooler water in stead of the open Potomac.
I should head down there while I still can walk and bow up once more.......it is like Hunting.........I sight cast these Smallies...there are Carp in their also so sometimes your heart starts to beat fast and then it is a Carp. When the Cicadas hatch big time I had some epic days on Carp...the Carp would actively hunt the Cicadas and I had good luck using a bushy Muddler Minnow to mimic the Light Brown Cicadas, they Carp would slurp the Muddler down like a Rainbow.....a 10 pound Carp can move out when you are using a 6wt. When the day comes I can no longer Bomb out a Drum Bait, I will retire to Fly Fishing and have some Guide in a Drift Boat ply me down the Western Trout Rivers, a Modern Day AJ McClain.

I am ancient also, but if I see someone producing by casting further or using better bait or using better terminal tackle........I am young enough not be so stuck up that I will not copycat the producer. John Deere Farmer Man whose wife thinks I look like Brad Pitt said Solid7 could really Bomb it out there, so I guess he knows his game, I would follow him around if I get to Florida someday.

I also need to get excited about going Hunting again, or say get excited about getting Drunk and bothering Hotties....anyway it was nice seeing that Solid and River are not dead and only busy fishing whilst I Internet Fish and offer Internet Fishing advice on my Blog.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Garboman said:


> I am ancient also, but if I see someone producing by casting further or using better bait or using better terminal tackle........I am young enough not be so stuck up that I will not copycat the producer. John Deere Farmer Man whose wife thinks I look like Brad Pitt said Solid7 could really Bomb it out there, so I guess he knows his game, I would follow him around if I get to Florida someday.
> 
> I also need to get excited about going Hunting again, or say get excited about getting Drunk and bothering Hotties....anyway it was nice seeing that Solid and River are not dead and only busy fishing whilst I Internet Fish and offer Internet Fishing advice on my Blog.


I was accused once of looking like a Pitt, but it weren't that one...
.
I don't know if I still have my beach game. Ever since my kid did a little growing up, we do a lot more inshore and freshwater. If you still got a slow 10 mile hike in your old legs, you can go fish for "sewer salmon" with us. These days we've been all about catching Snakeheads in Broward County. Any day you want to join, I think you've talked enough shit to be in our club. I figure if you still talk to me after my early days of mayhem here - whereby I weeded out my incompatible potential fishing partners with a brute force display of my personality - then you're not a snowflake, and well worthy of spending a day with.

Now my man River... He knows I always secretly admired him for his cult celebrity. I never pass up a chance to make a crack about the River Rig, because... Respect to the man. (in a contrarian sort of way) He's a good dude, and if we are dead, then I could have spent an online eternity with worse fellas.

I do live right on the beach, though, so when you make it down here, just shout at me. I'll haul out the old dusty gear. November thru February is your time to shine.


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## flathead (Dec 18, 2003)

> I cut my teeth on a Herters 8wt Fiberglas Fly rod in the 1960's


Southbend here............circa 1967...........started tying flies then for largemouth and big bream. Spent half my days first two semesters at college in the Tuckasseegee River in western NC for big 'bows. No time for studying so didn't start my third semester until three years later..........



> I also threaten to bring my 9wt to the OBX and catch me a Paper Drum with it, most likely out of a Boat so it will not count........


Where I spend 4-5 weeks a year fishing now I use an 8 wt with 200 yards of 30# dacron backing, wade fishing the grass and oyster bars of an inlet. Large Gartside Gurglers topwater along with Lefty's Deceivers mid and clousers deep catch'em........even though I don't fish from a boat,, fish on the long rod from a boat should count...............But, just in case, just finished three more live bait buckets when I switch back to the winches.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

flathead said:


> Spent half my days first two semesters at college in the Tuckasseegee River


Whoa... Somebody on this forum went to college? I can't believe you admitted that. You're in for it now...


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## Gorge (Jun 13, 2017)

I went to college too. Only took me 18 years to gradgiate


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## greg12345 (Jan 8, 2007)

Garbo you should pull out the buggy whip and chase those smallies for the rest of the summer. 6wt is perfect. I am still in mountain trout mode with the fly rod as stream temps are still <65 where I am at and dry fly fishing continues to be good, will soon switch to the bronzebacks once the water gets too hot for the brookies.


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