# Newbie looking to "go the distance"



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Hello to all. 1st post.

I would like to start off by saying that I fish often, as I live close to the beach. That being said, I am relatively new to serious surf fishing. I am trying to gain distance on my casts, and to that effect, have done a fair amount of research, as well as talking with the locals.

My equipment:

Abu Garcia 6500 C3 reels. (not mag)
Tsunami Airwaves 11' casting rod

I have two of the above. One of the reels has the levelwind removed. The other is unmodified, for a baseline reference. I recently started using 12# mono with an 8 yard shock leader, from the 20# mono with a 3' shock leader I formerly used. 

The problem that I am having currently, is that I am only getting about an extra 20 yards casting distance with non-levelwind reel. I can get 100 yards, no problem, but it isn't enough. I have noticed that everytime I cast the line with the shock leader, it slams the eyes of the rod. I believe that I am losing a great deal of casting distance because of this. I trim the tags very close to flush, so I don't believe this is the problem. My shock leader is 40# mono.

Looking forward to solving this first problem, and moving on to the fine tuning aspects...

Thanks in advance.


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

switch to braid and you won't have a knot problem because you won't have a knot


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## rivercat (Nov 24, 2010)

check the bible section for the best leader knots, I now use a bimini to no name and I can tie both in like 2 mins. lots of how toos in youtube. Should help alot I used to use a nail knot and it was huge and not as strong. 

Im no expert!!!

but I will say as far as level winds go the knot catching in the level wind is a factor cause its even smaller than the eyes of the rod also the tinyest amount of sand in the worm gear will jam it and your line will not wind level.

On non level winds be sure and wind any line tite but especially braid and try to be consistant with the side to side wraps about 5 or 6 turns per layer is a good to shoot for, this insures the line stacks well and by being consistent keeps the spool speed consistent and free of surges.


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

Welcome to the family


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## rivercat (Nov 24, 2010)

don't want to totally hyjack the thread but wanted to add a question allong the same lines. 

Why is it that I can sling a lead all day on the field and never have a backlash or a bit of fluff but when I hit the beach and put a piece of squid on there or mullet I make a huge mess 30% of the time? Is it because of casting into the wind or is the bait shape and aerodynamics that critical to carry the line off the spool?


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## jakuka (Oct 12, 2009)

rivercat said:


> Why is it that I can sling a lead all day on the field and never have a backlash or a bit of fluff but when I hit the beach and put a piece of squid on there or mullet I make a huge mess 30% of the time? Is it because of *casting into the wind *or is the *bait shape and aerodynamics *that critical to carry the line off the spool?


Both of the reasons you listed are contributing factors. But because wind direction is easier to detect, the baited rig is usually the culprit. I've found that with the same mag setting it is possible for me to hit a cast just as hard on the field with bare lead as I do on the water with weight and a chunk, but my technique becomes even more important. Simply put, the baited rig will amplify any improper or poor technique applied during the cast. So to remedy this I can either increase the mag setting or remind myself to be _smooth_ and not power up too fast in the beginning. Usually a quick mental note is all it takes. Ideally though, I should be practicing more so that it becomes second nature. :redface:


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## jakuka (Oct 12, 2009)

solid7 said:


> Hello to all. 1st post.


Welcome aboard.


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

rivercat said:


> don't want to totally hyjack the thread but wanted to add a question allong the same lines.
> 
> Why is it that I can sling a lead all day on the field and never have a backlash or a bit of fluff but when I hit the beach and put a piece of squid on there or mullet I make a huge mess 30% of the time? Is it because of casting into the wind or is the bait shape and aerodynamics that critical to carry the line off the spool?


It all boils down to matching the speed that the spool is rotating with the speed that the line is feeding off of the spool.

When you are in a field slinging lead, the wind is usually at you're back and you're usually throwing only a sinker. This gives lots of initial sinker speed and the deceleration happens slowly resulting in long casts and much less fluff. You can set the reels "loose" (mags and breaks) and let her rip.

Now add a big 'ol honking bait and you change the areodynamics significantly. The payload still leaves the rod quickly but slows down much faster than the lone sinker. That "loose" reel is suddenly feeding line faster than the payload is pulling it off and it is fluffing before you know it. 

Add in a headwind and the whole effect is amplified. The sinker and bait slow down quickly and the reel just keeps on spitting out the line........ zing-pow.

The key is knowing your gear, starting out with conservative mag/break tune and working from "slow" to 'fast" on the set-up.

You will find the break point.

Hope this helps,

Tommy


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## castingsfun (May 28, 2010)

*It's freezing outside!*

Tsunami Airwaves 11' casting rod specs

11' Medium Heavy
20-40lbs Line Rating
3-5 Jig Weight, 2pcs 


6500C3-specs /\ bearings-3 /\ Right Hand /\ gear ratio 5.3:1 /\
line capacity 14/245

Me personaly I'd spool the reel with A 14 or 15# mono.
If your throwing 3 oz. use A 30# shock leader, 4 oz.
40# and so on. The length is from the reel to the rod
tip back down to your reel and the knot wrapped around
the spool anywhere from 3-7 times.

The shockleader knot is a over hand knot in the thick line
and A uni in the thin line with tag ends trimmed 1/8". Plenty
of saliva and you'll be able to catch and cast all day every day.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

castingsfun said:


> Tsunami Airwaves 11' casting rod specs
> 
> 11' Medium Heavy
> 20-40lbs Line Rating
> ...



I use your knot, (it hits the guides, anyway) and I cast anywhere from 3-5 oz of lead. My main line is 12 lb Sufix mono, with a 30 lb shock tippet. (with the same diameter approximately as 17 lb test - I recently changed this) Nevermind the 10lbs/oz. rating - the tournament casters in my area use 12/25, so I emulate their setup. No break-offs due to casting in several hundred casts.

I am now getting out to about 120 yds on the non-levelwind reel. Still not good enough.

Does anyone think I should look into a different rod?


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## castingsfun (May 28, 2010)

> solid7:
> "Does anyone think I should look into a different rod?"


There is only so much that you can get from that rod and I'm
even surprised that you're getting that kind of distance. As
you allready know the guides play A big roll.

You have A lot of room to get better. It's all on what are you
looking to spend on A rod and come with A better rod can also
be A better reel.

The outfit that you have now is excellent to learn on and is A
stepping stone. IMHO I'd have to say you're ready to upgrade.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

I have to say - I really like the titanium guides, because they have no insert, and are flexible. Not to mention they have not corrosive properties. (as far as surf goes)

Are these the way to go? (yes, I know they are expensive)

I fish 3-5 times a week. (basically, every chance I get) We have a shallow drop, so I need the distance. Even on a good beach, I find that the fish tend to be out farther than I can normally reach.

I found this out the hard way. I made a cast of about 150+ yards once, and thought I was really hot stuff. Well, when I looked down, my rod was overspooled, and I had a fish on. It turned out to be a 4 lb. pompano, which I dragged in hand over hand. Seems my buddy didn't know much about bait casters, and when I wasn't looking, he reeled in the previous fish. And, as luck would have it, he didn't know the difference between the drag and the brake. Lucky for me, though, cause it sure taught me a lesson...


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

What kind of tournaments are using 25lb for a shocker?


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

thekingfeeder said:


> What kind of tournaments are using 25lb for a shocker?


I didn't say they were using them in actual tournaments. That is what they are fishing on the beach with... (and dry land practicing with) 

I imagine there is a big difference in casting for distance, (for the sake of distance) and casting with the expectation of keeping a piece of bait on a hook.


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

Hell, I thought you were referring to tournaments with lighter weights then we are used to using 'round here.


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## Bocajettyrat (Dec 8, 2010)

I don't want to hijack but what if your using 20#main line and using 30# leader, and 5oz lead for distance, for fish with no teath like Bonefish, Permit, from the beach? Does it defeat the purpose of using a 40#shock leader to swivle to 30#leader rig?


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Qnowland said:


> If you need help with distance, here's the secret I have been using!!!
> 
> http://www.cabelas.com/product/Flex...y=10&Ntt=the+launcher&WTz_l=Header;Search-All Products



Why would you use this in the surf???


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

solid7 said:


> Why would you use this in the surf???



You wouldn't, and spamming is frowned upon... :--|


Back to the topic:



> Does anyone think I should look into a different rod?


I'd venture a yes on that. I'm not saying you are squeezing every possible inch out of the Tsunami, but at some point you'll discover those rods were never meant to be "power" cast.

Yes, lots of beginners that don't know how to correctly compress a rod can get by for awhile, but the rod really won't stand up to a full blown tournament power cast for very long.

You'll also gain some relatively easy distance simply by jumping up to a rod that is 13' in length, as long as you don't get one so powerful you can't bend it with the weight you are throwing.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Mark G said:


> I'd venture a yes on that. I'm not saying you are squeezing every possible inch out of the Tsunami, but at some point you'll discover those rods were never meant to be "power" cast.
> 
> Yes, lots of beginners that don't know how to correctly compress a rod can get by for awhile, but the rod really won't stand up to a full blown tournament power cast for very long.
> 
> You'll also gain some relatively easy distance simply by jumping up to a rod that is 13' in length, as long as you don't get one so powerful you can't bend it with the weight you are throwing.


I was actually hoping that you would say that. 

So on to the big topic... I am strictly targeting pompano in the surf. I don't want to catch tarpon or sharks, bull reds or big black drum. So, I am looking for specific rod and reel suggestions. I am a rabid pompano fisherman, and I am looking for distance to catch up to an 8 lb. fish. (with up to 5 oz. of lead) I'll take as much distance as is practical. (read: what I can throw without losing bait) I prefer baitcasters to spinning reels.

Before anyone asks me about my budget, consider the above, and below. I don't tournament fish, I don't commercial fish. I am neither rich, nor poor. I believe in chasing my hobbies, but not to the point of diminishing returns. I want good equipment, that does what I want it to do, and will last a good long time.

If need be, I can start a new thread, but I think it fits the subject.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Daiwa Sl20Sh or Abu 6500CT would fit that bill nicely. $109-$140 range in price.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

AbuMike said:


> Daiwa Sl20Sh or Abu 6500CT would fit that bill nicely. $109-$140 range in price.


I hear great things about the Daiwa, but I already have a bunch of Abus. Any compelling reason to differ from what I already know and love? I could certainly be compelled to go that way, if there were a really good reason to do so.

What about a rod? That's the big deal for me right now.

PS - how about that power handle we were talking about, Mike?


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

solid7 said:


> I hear great things about the Daiwa, but I already have a bunch of Abus. Any compelling reason to differ from what I already know and love? I could certainly be compelled to go that way, if there were a really good reason to do so.
> 
> What about a rod? That's the big deal for me right now.
> 
> PS - how about that power handle we were talking about, Mike?


If you like the Abu's stay with um by all means. I forgot all about the handle. Just did a test fit and to be honest, the Daiwa handle fits better than the stock Abu power handle.

For the rod. I got to try an AFAW Estuary and fell in love with it. So much so I had to find me one. Hope to have it in a week or so. Rods are a personal choice. You will be money in to try and test a few before you buy. I know it's hard sometimes but it will save you big bucks in the long run.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

AbuMike said:


> If you like the Abu's stay with um by all means.


Does that mean that there isn't a significant improvement with the Daiwa reel? You seem to have experience with both. Any talking points?

Mind you, I am not one to waste your time. I really want to make an informed decision, and get the right equipment. (not just the name) It makes a good deal of sense to buy an Abu, because I have so many reels, and thus, parts. BUT... maybe I don't know what I am missing.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

solid7 said:


> I hear great things about the Daiwa, but I already have a bunch of Abus. Any compelling reason to differ from what I already know and love? I could certainly be compelled to go that way, if there were a really good reason to do so.
> 
> What about a rod? That's the big deal for me right now.
> 
> PS - how about that power handle we were talking about, Mike?


I'm going to have to confess to knowing next to nothing about pompano fishing, so keep that in mind.

A minimal step up I would think would be the breakaway LDX -- 13' and rated 3 to 6 oz.

I would also look at Tommy's cast pro series -- he has a 12' and 13' that might fit the bill.

Keep in mind you will be working harder casting and retrieving a 13' rod compared to an 11' rod.

I'm sure there are any number of other rods on the market also, that might fit the bill. Here again, not being familiar with the specifics of pompano fishing, I can only guess that you want to stay on the lighter side of blanks, away from the general "heaver" market. 

Many of the abu variety reels should work well -- I would concentrate the bulk of a new purchase on the rod, even if it means sacrificing by waiting on a new reel for a little while-- use the abus you have now and allot a little more toward the rod purchase-- the rod is the back bone that does the casting when it comes to achieving distance-- a super nice reel is nice also, but can be added later if necessary.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

solid7 said:


> Does that mean that there isn't a significant improvement with the Daiwa reel? You seem to have experience with both. Any talking points?
> 
> Mind you, I am not one to waste your time. I really want to make an informed decision, and get the right equipment. (not just the name) It makes a good deal of sense to buy an Abu, because I have so many reels, and thus, parts. BUT... maybe I don't know what I am missing.


I love my Abu's and for what you want they will be great for the reasons you decsribed. I am just a "tackle ho" and have or have had most all the beach casting reels out there. But.......I always come back to my 6500CT's. That said.....you need to think about the fish you want to or may catch. Abu's are not known for their line capacitiy so this is a factor. Although I have obtained some 6500 spools that will hold right at or very close to (depending on line manufacture) 300yds of #17 mono.


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## castingsfun (May 28, 2010)

I was thinking A Penn Squall 12 with A CCP 12' casting.
You can still practice the 12# main line and 25# shocker
with still having some sport left in fighting the 8 # pompano.
With this oufit I'd have to say that your distance will increase
A good amount. The rod is also extremely light. 

I hope this helps, Chris


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

AbuMike said:


> you need to think about the fish you want to or may catch. Abu's are not known for their line capacitiy so this is a factor. Although I have obtained some 6500 spools that will hold right at or very close to (depending on line manufacture) 300yds of #17 mono.



Nothing but pomps. I really don't need any more line than I can cast. I have 320 yards of 12# currently on the spool, and probably won't ever need most of it.

I am not into the big fish, as stated earlier. My surf rods really only come out in the winter time for pompano season, and I want to purpose build a combo specifically with that in mind.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Thanks for the replies, so far. I will be checking all of the recommendations out.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

I have narrowed my sights...

I am looking at the Carolina Cast Pro 13' casting rod, and the Abu reel.

However, my question on the Abu, is which one? I have been looking at the Blue Yonder, the CS rocket, and the Mag Elite. (or whatever they call it now)

From what I can tell, the CS Rocket and the Blue Yonder, (despite the levelwind) are basically the same. I don't seen any advantage to one over the other. (levelwind can come out of the Rocket, and I have spare parts - a plus) Now the mag elite model that I looked at, it had all the goodies, plus brass side plates. That I like. I can always take off the levelwind and have spare parts. I don't view having spares as a bad thing, as I still set my 10 year old up with the levelwind reels.

So, to mag, or not to mag? And is my suspicion correct - that in the non-mag, the blue yonder and rocket are basically the same thing? In any case, the top models of the Abu are still more economical than most of the other brands top level offerings, and I like Abus for their simplicity, and my personal familiarity. There really isn't anything in the 6500 class that I would view as "out of reach".

This is my last surf rod for awhile, so I want to make it a goodie.

Thanks to all.


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## Hooked Up (Feb 6, 2009)

ill be in central florida within a month...........if your close by and have a field you can throw both


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Hooked Up said:


> ill be in central florida within a month...........if your close by and have a field you can throw both


Sounds great. PM sent.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

> There really isn't anything in the 6500 class that I would view as "out of reach".
> 
> This is my last surf rod for awhile, so I want to make it a goodie.


In that case you might be interested in taking a look at this.

https://www.veals.co.uk/acatalog/ABU-reels.html

My own opinion-- for a reel strictly for fishing the CT Mag elite is hard to beat.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Mark G said:


> In that case you might be interested in taking a look at this.
> 
> https://www.veals.co.uk/acatalog/ABU-reels.html
> 
> My own opinion-- for a reel strictly for fishing the CT Mag elite is hard to beat.


Hey Mark, do know of anyone who has put there hands on one of these yet???


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

AbuMike said:


> Hey Mark, do know of anyone who has put there hands on one of these yet???



I've heard of a couple of the competition guys ordering them already-- I haven't personally tried one out yet or heard any official reviews-- I suspect I'll see one or two on the field as soon as the casting tournaments start back up.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Thanks. I have been thinking on one just to have a good look at it. Kinda wondering about the side to frame fit.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

I don't even see these as being available in the US.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

It's not. But you can order from the UK.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

AbuMike said:


> It's not. But you can order from the UK.


I think I will pass on that. Sounds more and more like the MAG Elite might be the way to go.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

solid7 said:


> I think I will pass on that. Sounds more and more like the MAG Elite might be the way to go.


Veals is pretty good to deal with (UK company). I ordered the mag elite premium (the orange one further on down the page) from them and several other reels as well-- never had a problem-- shipping isn't that bad -- but not sure what the exchange rate is right now-- any currency converter can tell you what you would pay in US dollars-- just be aware that some sites include VAT in their on line prices-- you don't pay this when ordering from outside the UK and can deduct it from the price shown as long as you are sure that it is included in the shown price.

Not trying to talk you into anything, just throw'in it out there that it's no big deal to order from the UK -- I do it a lot when stuff is not available here.

Veals includes VAT of 17.5 % -- so whatever price is shown reduce it by that and then do the currency conversion.


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

There are a lot of great choices out there, but I'm with Mark on this one. The factory Mag Elite is hard to beat for a 15 lb test long range surf reel.

Tommy


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Tommy said:


> There are a lot of great choices out there, but I'm with Mark on this one. The factory Mag Elite is hard to beat for a 15 lb test long range surf reel.
> 
> Tommy


Is that the one that you personally would put on that 13' rod that we talked about?


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

It is the one that I _personally fish _ on the CPS 13' 3-6. The reel is 12 years old. I fish it hard, rinse it off then use it to teach when i have a student interested in fishing distance with a casting reel. Not a hopped up tourney reel but a bone stock old mag elite.

The mag adjustment will take it from a user friendly near blow-up proof reel to a very respectable long range fishing reel. 

Tommy


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Any preferred place stateside to pick up the Mag Elite? A good site sponsor that carries them, perhaps?

I prefer to do business with a small (preferably family) business than a big box store, if possible...


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

solid7 said:


> Any preferred place stateside to pick up the Mag Elite? A good site sponsor that carries them, perhaps?
> 
> I prefer to do business with a small (preferably family) business than a big box store, if possible...



The CT version (non level wind) is harder to find, but you might check with Greg's bait shack -- he is small but I believe does on line sales -- he is located in Virginia and used to be a sponsor on here. I know he had them available,,,the 6500 C3CT mag elite-- in the high speed version with the upgrades.

You can also check with Ryan White, owner of Hatteras Jack- his tackle shop is located on the OBX of NC - in Rodanthe.

THese are just a couple I know of- I'm sure there are others.


If all else fails (if out of stock state side) you can also order them from Veal's.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Yep, Greg's got 'em for $185 and free shipping. Waiting to hear back from Ryan...

Thanks for the info.


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