# Lure weight discussion on choosing a surf blank



## lucky strike (Jun 5, 2008)

I was recently involved in a discussion on the beach with a few surfcasters. the topic was picking a new conventional blank by lure weight.
IT's a fact that a rod has a sweet spot weight as we know but how does that relate to the lure weights listed on the rod? 
If the listed range is say 4 to 8 we would assume that the sweet spot is 6 oz. Now the discussion was, does that include the bait ?
lets say the total weight of bait and 6 oz sinker is fairly consistant at 7 .5 ozs. Should we be looking for a rod rated at 4to 8 or 5 to 10? Some mfgrs say 6 + bait but what does that mean 6+ small .med or large bait? different bait sizes would dramatically change the total weight we are casting.
Now we were talking about long distance casting here and that would be important to picking the correct blank for optimum distance. Needles to say that there were pros and cons on the subject. It started to sound like politics and religion where no one agrees so I decided not to chime in.
I have my opinions but I thought I would leave it up to you fellas who might be more informed than I.


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

There is no standard. 

There are so many variables that it would be almost impossible to determine the true sweet spot on any given rod . The type of cast (overhead thump, hatteras, groundcast, pendulum) would greatly influence the sweet spot as would the skill of the caster.

Example - Take an experienced caster using a modern heaver rated for say 6-10 oz. This may be perfect for 8nbait throwing a hatteras style cast. Change that to a full blown tourney style groundcast or a pendulum and that sweet spot would shift down to 5-6 oz. The same rod in the hands of a lesser skilled caster may not be properly loaded even with 8nbait.

When rating my rods, I assumed a competent caster throwing a beach (hatteras) cast with a medium bait on the 3-6 and up models. On the 10' 1-4 and the 11' 2-5 it is more of a true (no bait) rating because a lot of guys will use them for throwing metals and lures. 

I hope this helps,

Tommy


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## OceanMaster (Dec 22, 2011)

I'm certainly glad this discussion has been posed...I'm shopping for a new modern day blank and considering I still cast 2 Fenwicks from the mid 70s (2 blanks circa 1975 1-4oz & 4-8oz \ 1 blank circa 1983 EGlass 6 - 12oz), I'm missing out on the technological gains made in recent years on the long surf rod scene. On the 8NBAIT thread, my 3 Fenwicks and I fished with Larry Hack LOL! So let's just say, I'm old school and need to get in with the new stuff. Both 1975 blanks are cut right a 11'6", both with chromed metal Varmac reel seats with neoprene grips. Not light weight sticks by any measure and I know I'm giving up a lot in overall distance by having to cast this extra weight. The 83 EGlass is 10'10" and was built more for yaking baits but I can hit 120 yards with my old Newell 338J casting 6 ounces of lead....this blank had the then new Fuji graphite reel seat and the last few Fenwicks made before selling out, shaved a ton of weight off the blanks overall weight in comparison to 75 vintage blanks. Problem with the 83, it's stiff and it's action isn't right for distance casting on this rod. She does a darn good job on those days where tons of weight and or yak for sharks is the daily order, but I can't load her enough till I hit 10+ ounces and then at that point, it's so heavy, my speed isn't there (long range lobs with realistic sets at 70 or 80 yards). 

I can cast one of my old Squidder 140; 160 yards with 5 ounces, no bait, old school. With a recently purchased Squall 15, I can nail 170 - 180 with the same blank (4-8 oz stick). It's a great blank but it's thick and heavy and I'm not getting any younger. As long as I stay casting and fishing...no problem but....the day after the fish, I'm sore LOL!

Tommy I'm looking at your 6-10oz at Mudhole....want to build on this blank but want to make sure I can get more from that than my old Fenwicks? I know off the top, the savings in weight will help me get there and I've been wanting to add a 12+ foot stick to my quiver. I'm thinking maybe picking up the 3-6 and 6-10 leaving both at 13' to start and work from there. I build my own stuff so getting the right setup means a lot to me since it takes time to finish a stick right. 

Really appreciate it Tommy and certainly glad you are here to provide insight to some of us old school surfman looking to modernize.

Rob


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Rob,

Switching from an old school fiberglass blank to a modern carbon fiber blank will take a little bit of adjustment on the casters part BUT should give a measurable increase in distance once you get used to the faster action. 

With the old school rod you could lay into it and the rod would just bend deep then unload slow and steady. The modern rod is going to give you more immediate feedback. It will let you know if you come in too soon with the power. Think of the cast kinda like driving a sports car through a curve.... in slow and out fast. You want to hit it hard late to get the best performance out of a modern high performance carbon fiber rod.

The CPS 6-10 would be a great choice. It is a little easier to load than most modern heavers but will flat out sent 8nbait a very long way. The CPS 13' 3-6 is an outstanding long range middle weight rod. One of my best sellers for a reason... 

Tommy


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## OceanMaster (Dec 22, 2011)

Thanks Tommy!


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

There is no standard. 

There are so many variables that it would be almost impossible to determine the true sweet spot on any given rod . The type of cast (overhead thump, hatteras, groundcast, pendulum) would greatly influence the sweet spot as would the skill of the caster.

well said tommy.

just as an example.....my 2 sons and i all cast differently.if we all cast the same rod it will be liked by 1 disliked by 1 and 1 will be indifferent.
part of the fun is trying rods to find "the one"


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## lucky strike (Jun 5, 2008)

Taking into account all the variables mentioned brings up an important point. Picking out the right rod or blank would then be an expensive proposition like buying $300 lottery tickets hoping you'll get lucky.


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## OceanMaster (Dec 22, 2011)

> Taking into account all the variables mentioned brings up an important point. Picking out the right rod or blank would then be an expensive proposition like buying $300 lottery tickets hoping you'll get lucky.


Yup - Sure wished Tommy was my next door neighbor!!!


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

"Yup - Sure wished Tommy was my next door neighbor!!! "

I wish he was too Ocean Master, that way I would not worry about him showing up some time on the OBX and calling me out on my Anyone ....Anywhere One Cast..One Rod...Skunkdown

With the newer Sticks you will pick up at least 20-40 yards in distance from your old Fenwicks, more if you get a fast reel

You get a lot more rod speed with the thinner profile blanks


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

The way the big 5-0 is shaping up I'm not sure if I'd be much of a threat. Pulled groin muscle at the last tournament then damn trigger finger came on me over the past few months. Went to have that treated today and asked the Orthopod doc about this pain in my shoulder at night. Put me through a few tests and it looks like some damage to the right rotator.....  

Gotta get back in the gym.. and avoid the knife




Garboman said:


> "Yup - Sure wished Tommy was my next door neighbor!!! "
> 
> I wish he was too Ocean Master, that way I would not worry about him showing up some time on the OBX and calling me out on my Anyone ....Anywhere One Cast..One Rod...Skunkdown
> 
> ...


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