# Shock Leader Idea or Insanity?



## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

I was talking to somebody today who said something about using untapered fly line as a shock leader. It seems like it would make sense, considering that fly line is loose and without memory, and that the thicker fly line wouldn't jam down in the reel onn a hard cast. My only thought was that maybe the line wouldn't have the breaking strength to handle the cast, but I can't find anything online about the breaking point of fly line. I might just hook it up to a digital scale and pull till it breaks.

Has anyone ever heard of or seen something like this? If not, I might have to try it the next time I can make it out to the field.

Evan,
aka KFM23


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## Sandcrab (Mar 20, 2002)

*Fly lines as shock leaders*

Most fly lines have a hollow core and are comprised of trapped air pockets. Untapered fly line (level line) is usually used by beginners to enable them to get the feel - plus its cheap.

I'll stick to my 50 lb shocker - which is solid mono.

Sandcrab


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## notso (Jul 18, 2005)

If you want tapered shock leader, google Varias tapered shock leaders. They are available through a company in the UK. They go from 70 or 80 lb down to 17lb, so you can have a nice small shocker knot. But they are a little pricey.


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

notso said:


> If you want tapered shock leader, google Varias tapered shock leaders. They are available through a company in the UK. They go from 70 or 80 lb down to 17lb, so you can have a nice small shocker knot. But they are a little pricey.


You get 5 leaders for abuot 10 bucks. For me the shipping gets spread over several other items that I order.


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## notso (Jul 18, 2005)

Digger said:


> You get 5 leaders for abuot 10 bucks. For me the shipping gets spread over several other items that I order.



I bought 3 spools when I got some, because the shipping was as much or more than the price of the leaders, but it's still a little pricey compared to a spool of 50lb mono......


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## derekxec (Apr 26, 2006)

ive never used a shock leader in my life and feel that it is unneeded assurance.... just another knot to fail


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

derekxec said:


> ive never used a shock leader in my life and feel that it is unneeded assurance.... just another knot to fail


more bad advice. why dont you stand to my right when i cast an 8oz and a jumper head when im not using shock leader.......:--| 

i could tie 15 knots in a row and im sure my line would not break before yours did

concerning shock there are two schools of thought tapered and just usin some mono. whichever one you like. if you are casting heavy weights use a shockleader. if you cant cast 40yards it doesnt matter but if you have a reasonably powerful cast and you are using heavy weights PLEASE use shock leader. its not just for you, its for the people AROUND you. learn to tie knots and they wont fail. im not sure if your brand new at fishing but if you dont know the damage that can be done please dont give bad advice. 

as far as the og post, i would jsut stick with mono. keep in mind the knot is only going to be a problem if you have your shock be 3x the length of your rod. your shock really only needs to be a couple wraps around your spool and the length of your drop and some extra if you like. there is no need to have 40ft of shock. all that will do is shorten your cast and increase the likihood that you will catch a knot on your tippy. also keep in mind if you tie a knot from the limp line to your running line, the mono knot there will be what catches not the flyline, so either way you still have a knot to contend with.

shock leader is pretty basic, we dont need to recreate the wheel. if there was a better way to do it, them boys down south woulda figured it out by now


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

Great advice Neil.......




> ive never used a shock leader in my life and feel that it is unneeded assurance.... just another knot to fail


derekxec-you are referencing not using shock leaders on your lite tackle, right?.....

The shock leader is needed to absorb and withstand the force of the cast...like Neil said.

Unless your casting less than 2oz's....tieing a shock should be part of your tackle.


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## narfpoit (Jun 16, 2004)

Most Fly fising lines are rated at 25# test You might be able to find some designed for blue water that would be heavier but I still doubt it would be more thatn 35# test. The outer layer of most fly lines are designed to impart some effect other than strength to the line ie. make it float or sink or wiegh more. In the end I think you would be best to follow the advice given earlier and use either tapered or level mono.

John


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## derekxec (Apr 26, 2006)

me nor anyone else i know use shock leaders on anything....only leader we use is a bite leader and here is the only place ive heard of people using them on anything...ive never seen them in use while fishing the surf here nor on piers

only thing that happens with a sudden stop on the braid...the braid breaks and the sinker flies out in the ocean and that rarely happens maybe once a year if that

ive used 30+lb mono straight and have had the sinker come flying back at us because of a sudden stop but we use nothing but braid and that just doesnt happen

NTKG i wouldnt be ignorant enough to stand next to you even if you did have a shock leader


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

use mono...fly line stretches big time...thats why you can use a #4 tippet and catch a #25 steelhead...i don't know anywhere else that requires a fisherman to throw 8-10+ and bait other than VA or NC...for that you need a shock leader...i saw an 8oz storm put a HOLE in a truck door...not a dent...A HOLE...do a number on a human head...i'll stick to my shock thanks


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## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I'll try to clear up a few things here first.

I'm not looking for a tapered leader or trying to get a smaller knot. Just trying to find a limp shock that would work for casting. The main reason I posted this is that I dabble in flyfishing for river smallmouth and yesterday I found a spool of untapered, nylon-core line that I'd bought and forgot about. I then remembered my conversation and tied some fly line on to a length of Cajun and the result was a secure and small leader knot like the one on BlackBeard's website. The line that I used wasn't too thick or bulky, and had virtually no memory at all so I decided to find out the opinions.

Thanks again for all the replies.

Incidentally, I tested out the line (Cortland 444 SS) using a spring scale and the breaking point was 45 lbs +/- 2.

Evan,
aka KFM23


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## Seachaser (Sep 27, 2004)

*My opinion..*

I fly fish some, and tying the smallest knot you could, it may still be too large to go through the guides smoothly. I tend to go smaller than larger diameter. I like to use 50-65 lb braid with a good knot.


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## jlentz (Sep 11, 2005)

Derekxec that is some pretty bad advice on not using a shock leader. I use braid on conventional reels with light weights but anything over 3 oz. is mono only. In the past year I have had two breakoffs on the 60 # shock leader during the cast, not near the knots but in the middle of the leader and right when I am loading the rod. from the position of the rod during the break the weight is flying up and to the right of me, dangering anyone around. It sounds like you are talking about the weight coming back at you after it is already in flight. I dont think you understand or do not have the strength to really power a cast, or you would use a shock leader. Even if you are using braid with no shock leader the force during the cast will cause the braid to dig into itself on the spool causing you trouble during the cast, unless you are very careful in the last few wraps of line. It might be a good idea to let the other fisherman to you right (assuming you are right handed) know you are not using a shock leader so we can look out for our safety since you are not.


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

JL-----did ya get into *them* @ SB or the Refuge?


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## derekxec (Apr 26, 2006)

oh i can power the cast  and power wont dig into itself if you pack it on super tight and ive never had a break off like that but it might be because i use 100lb and 150lb power pro


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

derekxec said:


> oh i can power the cast  and power wont dig into itself if you pack it on super tight and ive never had a break off like that but it might be because i use 100lb and 150lb power pro



braid terminal knots are weak. i would definatley like to tie on a leader. you fish in fl right>? so your prolly throwing like 3 oz and a scrimp.... we throw 8-10 with a head on there. and any idiot not using shock is endangering other people around him. 100-150lb pp? what do u need that for? your rod and reels dont put up but 15lbs of pressure?


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## derekxec (Apr 26, 2006)

yeah im in florida but i fish inlets mostly and the current is ripping we usually use 8 ounce weights but a lot of times not even a 12 ounce will hold so we just let get stuck on a rock and the fish will do the rest weusually use 8 and a piece of cut bait

i use 100-150lb braid because my smallest trinidad holds 375 yards of 30lb dia. line and if i were to use say 65lb test which is 16lb dia. it would cost me $100 to put 750 yards on it

i use 2 shimano trinidad TN30s (this is the reel that holds 375 of 30), a TN 40 and 2 TN50s

i use a van staal and a couple of shimano baitrunners also but i dont usually cast them with heavy weights they are more for lures

so if i were to use lighter line ide be spending probably $1,000 to fill them all and i dont know about you but im not looking to spend $1,000 on line every couple of months


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

derekxec said:


> yeah im in florida but i fish inlets mostly and the current is ripping we usually use 8 ounce weights but a lot of times not even a 12 ounce will hold so we just let get stuck on a rock and the fish will do the rest weusually use 8 and a piece of cut bait
> 
> i use 100-150lb braid because my smallest trinidad holds 375 yards of 30lb dia. line and if i were to use say 65lb test which is 16lb dia. it would cost me $100 to put 750 yards on it
> 
> ...


yeah roger that!

you dont use lures fishin them inlets? soakin bait eh? if you dont mind me asking what kinda fish ya pullin up


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## derekxec (Apr 26, 2006)

usually we just soak bait but sometimes like at night we will throw plugs or jigs and get snook and tarpon

we usually catch mangrove snapper, snook, tarpon, jack crevalle, flounder(only once in a while), catfish, and sharks

we dont get all that in the same day we usually get like a couple snapper, a couple snook, a tarpon and a load of catfish....other times when the jacks are running through we will get jack and half the time a shark will come up and eat the jack and we will get a shark haha 

we get that all year except the snook and tarpon dont hit very much during the winter


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## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

derekxec, fishing in FL coastal waters and surf fishing in NC/VA/MD are two completely different animals. The physics of the casting, the bait presentation, fish species, feeding habits, etc, are all different. Techniques that work in Florida don't necessarily work in NC/VA/MD, and vice versa. I used to fish in Florida a lot when I lived in Atlanta, and the "culture shock" in the fishing scene here vs Florida was unreal; vastly different places to fish. 

The shock leader concept used in surf fishing is to deal with the power generated by a good surf rod on a good cast, and cope with the abrasive qualities of large amounts of sand and waves. The stress put on the shock leader, by a good caster throwing 8nbait on a heaver (pretty stiff 12'+ rod) is awesome, which is why shock leaders are necessary. Therefore, the use of shock leaders, when comparing Florida inlet/jetty fishing, vs NC open beach surf fishing is comparing apples to oranges.


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## jlentz (Sep 11, 2005)

Nsearch4Drum Unfortunately I did not get into much action this fall. Its funny(or sad) but in the retail tackle business I have less time to fish. I am hoping to do some striper chasing this winter. I have a place to stay in Sandbridge so I get down there any chance I can. I fish off my boat a lot in the winter for stripers but prefer to chase the fish from the sand in Sandbridge or the Refuge. I would like to meet some of you all P&Sers down there sometime. If you all go down there in the winter for stripers p.m. me and maybe we can meet up.
John


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

I think we tend to apply "text book" fishing to real world situations and the application doesn't always work. The book rule of 10lbs worth of shock leader to every one ounce of sinker isn't a good ruler to judge what everybody should or should not use. 

I think more depends on the equipment being used, and more importantly, the user. 

Back in my younger days, I routinely broke 50lb test shock leaders while surf fishing. Mainly because I casted like a Gorilla. I think the Gorilla style of casting is probably the most prevelent one you will find. If you cast like a Gorilla, you probably need a shock leader. 

At the current point of my fishing career, the only way I could break a 50lb test shock leader is to wrap it around a pole in the parking lot and tie the other end to the bumper on my Jeep. 

For the last two weeks I've been casting 4oz on a 10' rod with an Abu 6600 on it, 17lb test line, no shock leader, and haven't even come close to anything breaking off. For several reasons. One, I don't cast like a Gorilla any more. Two, I'm not trying as hard as I used to because in my old age I've figured out that a smooth cast with a conventional reel goes farther most days than a Gorilla cast with a spinning reel. Three, I'm casting right over my shoulder, so the chances of anything going sideways if it does break off is nil. 

When I surf fish on the beach, I use a shock leader, solely for the safety of other people on the beach. 

Some of the questions that we ask here are impossible to answer. What's the best rod for YOU. I don't know, I'm not you. Which reel can YOU cast fartherest. I don't know. I'm not you. What works for you might not work for everybody else and vice versa. If you want to know what you can pop off when casting, you'll have to figure it out on your own.

I wouldn't fish next to God if he was using a pendulum cast, I don't care how much shock leader he's got on.


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## BigJeff823 (Oct 14, 2002)

You aply 50lbs of presure to fly line in a milisecond it will break.Either use braid or use the mono with a shock leader and you  will have no problems.


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## BigJeff823 (Oct 14, 2002)

50/10lb test Braid can handle 12oz n bait;no shock leader w/ no problem;I've done it.


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## BigJeff823 (Oct 14, 2002)

*However with mono*

You cant do that with mono;its best to use atleast a 50-60lb test shock leader if you throw more than 4oz n bait.


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## BigJeff823 (Oct 14, 2002)

I cast like a Gorilla too;you have to to get it out there;the more an arc you can put in your rod due to the pressure you put on it the better.Trust me.


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## Caught Myself (Sep 14, 2004)

Surf Fish said:


> I wouldn't fish next to God if he was using a pendulum cast, I don't care how much shock leader he's got on.


lol


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## barty b (Dec 31, 2004)

We have a couple of inlets here in N.E. FL that the current really rips through, especially on an outgoing tide. I have found that some of the OBX techniques work extreamly well in these areas. 
If you don't think we use 8-n-baits down here,guess again. Try fishing Vilano Inlet or Matanzas during a strong nor'easter, 8 aint gonna do it,try 10. Most guys will pack it up and go home. I'll throw 6 to 8-n-bait and drift for about 500 yards down the beach ,reel up walk back and do it again.

As for shock leader, sure, I can throw 4oz on straight 17lb suffix Tri, using an overhead thump with my connoflex gambit or zipplex V-max all day and not crack off. I can chuck it about 60 yards like that ,woo hoo So what happens when the fish are 80,90,130 yards out? YOU NEED A SHOCK LEADER! 
You CANNOT throw 6-8oz on an OM or zipplex 3500 or any other heaver of choice without a shockleader. 

LEARN HOW TO TIE GOOD KNOTS!!! I almost killed somebody at Vilano due to tying a bad knot in braid, The guy never saw it coming and if he hadn't bent over to pick up a shell when he did they would be removing my 5oz sputnik from his skull. I learned how to tie braid after that.

Bottom line, Surfcasting can be dangerous,have respect for those around you, If your not confident with your knots, LEARN NEW ONES and tie them right. And remember... If you have a 50lb shockleader and are using a double dropper loop pompano rig with the 5oz weight on the bottom, dont tie your rig with 20lb IT DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF HAVING A SHOCK LEADER! hey,some people need to be told that


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## derekxec (Apr 26, 2006)

i forgot to mention that i really dont have a problem with hitting anyone as i only fish where there is no one around and 90% of the time i go by myself...and yeah the currents rips hard through the inlets....jupiter inlet is where i fish mostly and even 12 ounce weights wont hold bottom so we have to let it bounce off rocks till it catches on one but then again we catch tons of fish like this so it works out well


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

*So what happens when the fish are 80,90,130 yards out? YOU NEED A SHOCK LEADER! 
*

No you don't. You need a boat....

Or a 40 mph tail wind like we had at the pier today. 4oz would go 140 yards no problem with no shock leader


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## Bigbook (Dec 19, 2004)

*130 yrds out no problem*

i fish the same waters barty does and 100 yrds is a good ave. for deep cuts ie; the thrid bar shock leaders ARE A MANDATORY ITEM , THE TORQUE FROM A 13 FT ROD AND 5 OZS IS OFF THE SCALE  You really must use one! for everyone safety an otg cast will still make a 130 150 yrd cast . Ive seen it and do it every trip as long as the wind is not in my face, then im picking out some nasty birds nests lol
10lbs test per 1 oz of lead !!!!!


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## Bigbook (Dec 19, 2004)

*130 yrds out no problem*

i fish the same waters barty does and 100 yrds is a good ave. for deep cuts ie; the third bar shock leaders ARE A MANDATORY ITEM , THE TORQUE FROM A 13 FT ROD AND 5 OZS IS OFF THE SCALE  You really must use one! for everyone safety an otg cast will still make a 130 150 yrd cast . Ive seen it and do it every trip as long as the wind is not in my face, then im picking out some nasty birds nests lol
10lbs test per 1 oz of lead !!!!!


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

barty casts more than 70 yards?  


the post about the not being able to break 50 leader anymore was awesomely funny! great way to smile in another day at work!


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## Cor (Oct 6, 2006)

*Hollow Spectra*

For about 2 year now I have use Jerry Brown 80lb hollow spectra as a leader with excellent results. Its limp strong, but *most of all no knot to go through the guides.*

For the fishing I do visibility is not an issue and I don't think I have thrown off one lure during the 2 years.


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