# Looking for drum run data



## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Does anyone out there (Ed, et al) have data on the dates and numbers of drum caught at Sandbridge from mid-September till now?

I'm looking for something in the format of 
9/21--5 fish
9/22--12 fish
etc.

I ask because I think it'd be interesting to run a statistical analysis on this year's dates. Yes, I'm bored.


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## GotchaMack (Jun 16, 2004)

As an aside, it seemed like they stayed around for an extra 10days-2weeks this year.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

That's what spurred me to want this data. The run started several days early and ran nearly a week late this year, and I'm looking for hard numbers so I can plot when the fish were being caught.

I think the growing population may have something to do with it, but I want hard data to work with.


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## jlentz (Sep 11, 2005)

It would be interesting to add other data also such as water temperature, weather etc. This would give a gauge to possibly follow in future years. Let us know if you get the info.


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

The only hard data they will have is the Citation data but that it is flawed in many did not register there or at all. Claude Bain would have the data.


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## Dyhard (Oct 24, 2002)

sand flea said:


> That's what spurred me to want this data. The run started several days early and ran nearly a week late this year, and I'm looking for hard numbers so I can plot when the fish were being caught.
> 
> I think the growing population may have something to do with it, but I want hard data to work with.


 My observations of the Lynnhaven area are that there were far less Reds than in years past.
That is not statistical however I do know a lot of the places that they like, that were quiet, if you know want I mean.


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## RedskinFan228 (Jun 28, 2004)

hey sand flea you may try 'edgotbait' he was posting daily reports of the number of drum caught off of LIP. It will not give you the surf data but it may be the best you can get. Sorry i couldnt help more...I didnt get one this year  let us know the results so we know when to start next year


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2005)

I agree, from what I've been watching on the boards is that edgotbait may have have the best data available as some sort of gathering. It doesn't represent total fish caught, but if it's daily then it's a decent sampling.


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## edgotbait (Sep 29, 2004)

yes i have that info as flawed as it may be 

this year 235 citations were written by pier staff
for red drum there were countless other fish in the citation size range that were never written up and some that were done other places

in ower best geusstament over 650 reds were landed this year on the pier not in cluding the beach as we have no way of knowing how many were landed there

the 2004 season only had 79 citations for 
red drum

2003 season did not happen because of the hurricane isabell

2002 was be for i started working there and we were not a wiegh station .

i will give dates and numbers on tue.night all my info is at work in my desk


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

A breakdown per day would be nice. Almost like a daily fishing log.


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## in2win (Dec 18, 2003)

*Ed*



edgotbait said:


> yes i have that info as flawed as it may be
> 
> this year 235 citations were written by pier staff
> for red drum there were countless other fish in the citation size range that were never written up and some that were done other places
> ...


Ed, two weeks ago the best guess by the best guesser(Capt. Pat Bracher 36 fish) was 432 includeing undersize fish and folks that don't care about paper. A hell of a good number but far less than 650. I assure you that no more than 12 fisherfolks caught 50% or more of the fish caught off LIP.

Good luck with your job hunt.

CATCHEMUP,
Mike


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## edgotbait (Sep 29, 2004)

as no one person was on the pier the hole time 
the drum run happened to take count no onewill ever know. as it was fishermen were trying to hide the fact that drum were being caught let alone total number of fish . on average for every citation fish there was 1 to 2 none citation fish landed. i know of about 100 fish that will never be put to paper
there are many of fishrmen that wish i would just not talk or post anything about red drum.so that they could have the pier and the fish for them selfs and that is just one of the many reasons
some people dont get citations and that is thier right . and aslong as they had fun and a good time catching fish at lip thats all i care about

one last thing you all did a great job together in crowded space with somany fishermen and
with out killing each other


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## in2win (Dec 18, 2003)

*Ed,*



edgotbait said:


> as no one person was on the pier the hole time
> the drum run happened to take count no onewill ever know. as it was fishermen were trying to hide the fact that drum were being caught let alone total number of fish . on average for every citation fish there was 1 to 2 none citation fish landed. i know of about 100 fish that will never be put to paper
> there are many of fishrmen that wish i would just not talk or post anything about red drum.so that they could have the pier and the fish for them selfs and that is just one of the many reasons
> some people dont get citations and that is thier right . and aslong as they had fun and a good time catching fish at lip thats all i care about
> ...


I think you may have read something in my last post that wasn't intended... Of the 12 or so Fishermen that caught the majority of fish caught off LIP one , two or more were there all the time and all talked with each other on a day to day basis. That is how Capt. Pat got his total.

I am one of those who tried to keep it quiet and it worked until our first good day  word got out quick ! 

(JMHO) I think the Internet is a great learning tool when,where and how to,if one should take that information and apply it as learned fish will be caught. As for live action the Internet sucks.

You have to put in your time and learn how to apply your Internet knowlege. You show up at a givin fishing hole and the fish are CHEWING. WHY are they chewing ? You plan your trip based on experince and the fish are chewing, then you have done something ! Again JMHO.

CATCHEMUP,

Mike


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## GotchaMack (Jun 16, 2004)

235, 432, 650, these numbers may be debated for sometime, but I believe we can all agree that nearly 3 X's the number of citations from last year were decked this year, I'd say thats a good start. One question I'd love to hear the answer to is: How did the winter of 04-05' that wouldn't leave affect the runs of this season, including the reds? Just a hunch but I think the winter that didn't leave may have had enough influence to affect the timing and intensity of this year's runs.


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## edgotbait (Sep 29, 2004)

im sure it did .
this spring we got zip ,noda ,0, puppys or reds and not much of any thing else


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## 15917 (Aug 22, 2005)

*at least something*

Here's a post from 9-29

http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20851&highlight=lip


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## edgotbait (Sep 29, 2004)

citation red drum landed at LIP 2005
M/D fish count
10-15=2reds
10-14=4
10-13=4
10-12=21
10-11=2
10-10-4
10-9=20
10-8=2
10-7=6
10-6=12
10-5=9
10-4=13
10-3=2
10-2=3
10-1=7
9-30=16
9-29=7
9-28=2
9-27=33
9-26=12
9-25=12
9-24=22
9-23=1
9-21=12
9-20=1
9-19=3
9-16=1
9-1=1


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

Ed I'm assuming that this is the paper count. Thank you for providing it. I know you do what you do is for love of it. Thank You.


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## chest2head&glassy (Jul 2, 2002)

Does anybody have the growth rate for reds? Remember in '02 when the 18"-30" puppies in the late summer into fall were so thick that you could walk on them.
I wonder if those pups grew up to be the big boys now.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Precisely what I was looking for. Ed, you rock.

Was 10/15 the date of the last citation red caught?



edgotbait said:


> citation red drum landed at LIP 2005
> M/D fish count
> 10-15=2reds
> 10-14=4
> ...


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## edgotbait (Sep 29, 2004)

yes that is the last date i have paper work for


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## edgotbait (Sep 29, 2004)

citations for red drum at LIP 2004
M/D #of fish
10-11=2 red drum
10-10=6
10-8=1
10-6=2
10-5=9
10-4=2
10-3=10
10-2=1
10-1=3
9-30=2
9-29=5
9-28=1
9-27=9
9-25=3
9-24=1
9-23=1
9-20=2
9-18=4
9-17=3
9-13=1
9-6=2


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## edgotbait (Sep 29, 2004)

would you like the spot citations for both years

are spot and drum linked ? now thats a ?????


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

*Scatter plot*

So I've done a scatter plot on this year's drum run. On the lefthand side, you'll see the number of citations.

Across the bottom is the date. Blue dots represent each day of citations.

<img src="http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=434">

I think it gives a representation of the days on which you had your best chance.

Now what I need to do is plot wind direction and tide in a tool we can all feed info into. But that's a long-term project...


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

PS: I'll run a plot on 2004 tomorrow.


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## RedskinFan228 (Jun 28, 2004)

sand flea said:


> PS: I'll run a plot on 2004 tomorrow.



Thanks sand flea. Let us know if and when that long term project is done


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2005)

So basically, if you plan on taking time off next year to catch drum, aim for end of Sept. to beggining of Oct. for highest chances.


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## the rhondel (Feb 6, 2003)

Maybe if the "bird flu" hits it won't be as crowded on the end next year  ...the R


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

And here's the 2004 data.

Thanks for your help, Ed!

<img src="http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=435">

I know this little exercise seems nerdy, but I've been trying to come up with new ways to look at the data that is gathered. Figured this was the first question I'd look at.

If Ed or anybody else has data on other fish they'd like plotted, let me know.


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## edgotbait (Sep 29, 2004)

sandflea can you make 2005 blue dots and 2004 red dots and put them on the same plot?thanks
did you want spot citations?


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2005)

Big time difference in the number of reds caught between the years, or at least citations handed out.


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## flathead (Dec 18, 2003)

Well,I don't fish Sandbridge but I've been following the bouncing ball here.Several folks,without mentioning any names,have given enough info,if you can read just a little between the lines,that any relative newbie,could plan a drum trip for next fall  

Now,the surprising thing to me is the difference between citations issued this year versus last year,and the fact that there were none issued this past spring.The striper season at the Outer Banks went much the same way from 2004-2005.Sudden water temp drops last November kept them just offshore,out of reach for surfcasters,except on certain days,with certain wind conditions.I know that Virginia waters were even colder and delayed the spring season,maybe just long enough,that the big boys and girls headed straight for the sounds,without lingering in the surf but a couple of days ?


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Yeah, Ed. I wouldn't mind getting that data.

In fact, I need to hook up with the VMRC and run these plots on every species they have numbers for. Could be very, very useful.


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

It all depends on how much time you want to spend looking at citation data. If you go to the following page:

http://www.mrc.state.va.us/vswft/index.shtm

and click on the detailed citation data for a given year. It will take you to a page of the totals for each species. Click on the name of the species and it will take you to a page that has the following for each and every citation. (We will see what this looks like when it comes out.)

Tom


Species Specific Location Where Caught Date Weight Length Release Bait Technique Citation

RED DRUM ASSATEAGUE ISLAND 625 10/03/03 0-00 46.0 Y CUT BAIT; CUT FISH SURF FISHING 144205

RED DRUM BARRIER ISLANDS SURF-UNSPECIFIED 625 05/02/03 0-00 47.0 Y CUT BAIT; CUT FISH SURF FISHING 135903
RED DRUM BARRIER ISLANDS SURF-UNSPECIFIED 625 05/16/03 0-00 48.0 Y CUT BAIT; CUT FISH SURF FISHING 137908
RED DRUM BARRIER ISLANDS SURF-UNSPECIFIED 625 05/16/03 0-00 50.0 Y CUT BAIT; CUT FISH SURF FISHING 137908
RED DRUM BARRIER ISLANDS SURF-UNSPECIFIED 625 05/16/03 0-00 44.0 Y CUT BAIT; CUT FISH SURF FISHING 137907
RED DRUM BARRIER ISLANDS SURF-UNSPECIFIED 625 05/16/03 0-00 45.0 Y CUT BAIT; CUT FISH SURF FISHING 137907
RED DRUM BARRIER ISLANDS SURF-UNSPECIFIED 625 05/16/03 0-00 47.0 Y CUT BAIT; CUT FISH SURF FISHING 137907
RED DRUM BARRIER ISLANDS SURF-UNSPECIFIED 625 05/16/03 0-00 48.0 Y CUT BAIT; CUT FISH SURF FISHING 13790


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