# Run off the Refuge or ...



## The Bucket (Mar 4, 2001)

but Mr. Ranger Sir ! Now, now, Yogi since your here on the Refuge after sunset your trespassing and it's a $225 fine so Boo Boo take Yogi and his friends (Nserch4drum, Anthony, FLAFishermen, Dixie719, dmoss, and bucket) pack it up and leave now ! And don't forget to leave the picnic basket  

According to are John Law tonight, "rules is rules" - especially when they finally get enforced so will see how it all pans out this Fall/off season, but it's a bummer because that was sizing up to be a reel good hole for reds potentially big ones this Oct. at NIGHT  

Maybe we can get a special use exemption of some kind  

Now where's that dang picnic basket  

`bucket bear


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## Thrifty Angler (May 5, 2002)

*Say it isn't so.....*

All that hard work and someone else gets to reep the rewards.....a nice fish dinner? 

Surely he didn't!


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Bummer, Mark, how dare them....


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## poleant (Sep 26, 2002)

Hey Bucket sorry to hear that, man they are strict down there. Anyways I went down and fished just south of the pier tonight and the water was rough and dirty. Caught sandy seaweed, about 100lbs worth, how much weight are you throwin? 8 was not workin for me. I guess its time to upgrade to somethin that will throw a pound for the pounding surf !!   Oh well I tried.


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## Bass Buster (Jun 19, 2003)

Wow you guys, that really blows chunks after all the preparation and money expended for some clean American fun. You know how it goes, if it's to good to be true then it has to be wrong. Hey what can I say that’s the way it is living in America! 

________________
Who Knew It!


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## the rhondel (Feb 6, 2003)

....he#*,ya take what they give till ya look thru tha fine print and figure out how ta get 'round it  ....the R


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## dmoss (Oct 12, 2003)

Bucket,Nsearch,FLA fisherman,Dixie719,Anthony
Sorry you folks didn't get a chance to really soak some bait.Mr.Parkranger was on a mission to clear the beach.He made it a point to inform the 
wife and myself that it was $225.00 EACH.  Nice guy,Don't know what the deal is  ,Maybe the elite few with beach passes are complaining how us fisherfolk are impeding their progress down the beach to their high dollar house's to the south,and his boss got on him?maybe a newbie on a mission.  Anyhow was a first for me to get booted,been feeshin there since last fall and never had a problem with Mr. Parkranger,We'll see how the fall pans out,I'm with Bucket on the Oct. thing.  

Tight Lines and Screamin Drags


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## HighCap56 (Oct 21, 2003)

I would be glad to participate in any "political" activity that might be undertaken to take care of that BS.

Maybe some video of trucks blastin down the beach?

That is just friggin ridiculous.

I would absolutely get an attorney to at least write a letter, show up with you if you take it to country, etc..

I understand rules, and if it was a $25 hickey I would say Pay Up, but $225 a pop?

What a load.
--------------

Bob


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*park rules*

I would go to the main office and ask to speak to the refuge director. Ask what the rules are and follow them. Otherwise they may close it to all fishing.You will not win a shoveing match with federal officers or wealthy residents. Treating them with respect will get you much more respect in return. The people who live there have all the power. If you want to continue to have access to that area I would tread lightly. It would not be a bad idea to be a little more tight liped adout your secret spots either.


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## Thrifty Angler (May 5, 2002)

*Am I missing somethin?*

Were any fines actually given out?
And........

what exactly was in that *pick-a-nick* basket?  

*Or Were They One In The Same?*  

Anyone care to PM me that answer?

If the latter.....I'm sure you guys frown on taking those walks back and forth to your vehicle.....but perhaps it can be a good thing in some cases(legal drop offs that is). Especially when fishing areas where Park Rangers (Dudley Do-Rights) rule. Outta sight...outta mind....sorta speaking.


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## TC (Oct 21, 2002)

*Loggerhead Turtle Nesting*

Hey to all.
I know exactly why that you cannot fish Federal land at night in our choice places-SEA turtle nests. 
This time of year, they swim ashore to nest. I found out the hard way. It not only occurs at the spot, it occurs at Damneck base at night as well. They are endangered, and thanks to the endangered species act, they are federally protected. At night, they swimm ashore, and build their nests, it looks like a big mound of sea weed and sand. Inside, the eggs incubate.
They like the deserted stretches of beach that seldom get travelled, like the ones we like to fish. 
That is why, basically, we cannot fish those places at night.
Ask the park ranger, during the day  , and he will probably tell you the same line.
It basically sucks, but I would rather spend the $200.00 on a new heaver and tackle than to line the pockets of some bureaucrat.
With love and admiration  ,
TC


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## the rhondel (Feb 6, 2003)

I agree with surfrat and thx TC.We have to protect what we have and we need to find out what the actual guidelines are.For some reason access at nite is now being denied .Maybe its the Labor day situation or,as TC says ,the turtles.Maybe the rangers were turning a blind eye to a couple of fishermen but cant overlook a multitude.Better to pleasantly get the facts from the "top",act respectfull(you ain't gonna win) and try to figure something that will be to each parties satisfaction;maybe we can have night usage after the turtles finish "doing their thing.".......else they will take it ALL away;guaranteed!!!!......the R


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## dmoss (Oct 12, 2003)

TC I think you are probably right about the turtle thing.The other night a couple of folks picked up a baby turtle in the wash,said they were takin to the Virginia Science museum.(I said leave it alone)I got no problem with the guy doin his job,maybe Labor Day weekend don't know.However I do know that we don't want to lose access to this beach.No fines were doled out,Mr. parkranger was just being assertive in his duties.Don't think this needs to be all blown up out of perportion(sp?)  .

Tight lines and Screamin Drags


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## The Bucket (Mar 4, 2001)

1) no fines issued
2) we were not shoving, they were - while we were being respectful 
3) we do tread lightly (no turtles or other hurt here including the C&R the reds)
4) and did tighten the lip by reporting posts as Sandbridge beach, heck only 6 of us fishin it. If we were anymore tight lipped it would defeat some of the purpose of this website !

Agree dmoss `nuf said on this such that I'd ask flea to remove said post asap.

`bucket


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## Dixie719 (May 12, 2003)

I'll second that Bucket!


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

THERES ANOTHER GOOD STORY REGARDING THAT....ISSUE....that just happened 2nite..I'll let those involved explain......people are just plain fools...or lack any sense!Like that lady trucker in the 1st Survivor said....If tha lady was dieing of thirst on a dessert,and I had some water......

I wouldn't waste it on her


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## fishwagon (Sep 25, 2002)

I went down to St. croix USVI. a few times when I was a kid. One night we were camping out on the beach when someone found some leatherbacks coming up out of the sand. We called the game people and they said to dig them up and help them on their way, in case they were burried a little too deep ( You'd get a few years in a Federal Pen. for doing that here, so It would be pretty dumb) Anyway, It was something I'll never forget, watching about 150 babies make their way to the ocean. Watching it in the middle of the night with only the few of us around on an uspoiled beach made me think I was seeing something that had been going on exactly like that 100 million years before we ever came along.

They only go back to (very close to) the place they were hatched to lay new eggs. They are like salmon when it comes to reconizing the same strip of beach.

* This tree-hugging greenie moment brought to you by-DAFISHWAGON!


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## LouDog (Dec 31, 2002)

I don't think it's a turtle thing.....it's a federal, park closes after sunset thing. On the other hand you can get a camping permit from the office at seashore to camp in designinated spots within the refuge(a long haul in), but I wonder if that would allow you to fish anywhere within the park??? The turtles nesting this far up is very unusual and unfortunately, usually unsuccessful-the beach is too small and the nests get washed out. The limited sucess hatchings are usually a result of digging up the nest and replanting it above the dunes within a cage which introduces a ton of other issues. Turtles sex is determined by the temp at which they are incubated-a couple degrees either way will change the sex, hence the multiple layers/depths of a particular nest. In warmer climates, a nest would yield both sexes. All (most) of the turtles that do hatch on Va beaches are males (colder temp) Especially with nests layed late in the summer...therefore not many females in the pop to return. 

Lou


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## FL FISHERMAN (Sep 30, 2002)

They give camping permits but you are only allowed on the beach at False Cape. No fishing above the state line, we asked. I agree about the turtles. That is why they have a good portion fenced off. But if everyone believes turtles are the reason they close at night then why do the 14 or so people with permits get to drive their cars on the beach! What a 2 ton vehicle does no damage to turtle nests but a 160 lb fisherman kills em all!?? I don't even live there and it pisses me off because we had a few altercations when we tried to fish there this past weekend, and nobody could give a straight answer. The truth is they feel like that is their public road and they can do whatever they want to. They don't give a damn about fisherman and will run through your lines in a heartbeat. Its a shame because it is a nice area with a few bad apples.


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## Bass Buster (Jun 19, 2003)

The only way to turn the tide on this issue is by writing your congressman. If we get enough signatures to back our concerns, I’m sure something will happen in favor of the taxpayer's namely us. I have digested a fair amount of good comments from fellow fishermen regarding the refuge that just doesn’t add up when you try and rationalize with the Governments logic. It also disturbs me how the locals continue to abuse the refuge at will while the government basically sits back and endorses it. Well my brothers and sisters its time we put a machine together and bring about a positive change for the good of all. We can chew on this topic until the next ice age however action is the only thing that brings about change. Maybe I’m tripping but it seems to me as a taxpayer I’m not getting my fair share.

________________
Who Knew It!


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

*we made them mad*

accordin to the game warden...there was a formal complaint by those who travel the cursed road this weekend....they were blamin the fishermen/women of being @sshole$ and feeshin on their road   The game warden didn't make a very big issue over it....and flea and the bucket is right....just shut the darn road down!


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## Thrifty Angler (May 5, 2002)

*I'd let it rest.*

In the end....the locals would be victorious. Anglers versus sandbridge homeowners/residents. It ain't gonna happen. Money talks...bunker smelling anglers walk. 

They could have at least waited til the official end of the tourist season to start pulling rank. But if there was a uniformed Ms. Ironpants amonst the brass.....then you definitely didn't have a chance in h#ll. Artificial brass balls......that's the worse kind. lmao.

All said....objections to their policy might get more restrictions placed against anglers in the long run. Could see fishing banned as a result.

Just my .02


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## gus (Jan 24, 2002)

theres plenty of beach in sandbridge. i lived there for over 25 years, and dont understand why people are so obsessed with fishing in the refuge. more people fish in the refuge than in the middle or northern ends of the area. there are sloughs all up and down the beach with no warden to bother u.


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

the first thing would be to get the refuge rules in writing..all of them...the refuge is not controlled by one entity..you gotta get the bullets before you can fire the gun  ..the "special" permits were isseued on the sly...like getting a permit to pollute(VEPCO, RJ REYNOLDS.. come to mind)...only some can drive the beach, but i don't think they can keep you from fishing at night(just don't pitch a tent)..you may be able to get a backcountry or rustic site permit like they issue in the blueridge...the laws are so convoluted they may not know how to enforce them so they keep everyone out  ...jmo


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## FL FISHERMAN (Sep 30, 2002)

Gus you are right but with all the beach replenishment a whole lot of area has gone pretty flat. In the refuge it is quiet, no big buildings around, and peaceful. Well until you see a truck going 50 mph down the beach towards your poles. Being there puts you in a different state of mind. I hope fishing there never gets banned.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Let's clear up a couple of issues here.

First, no one's advocating breaking any rules. We should all stay within the regulations until those regulations can be changed.

That said, it's not Sandbridge residents vs. the fisherman. It's 14 NC residents who got Congress to give them a special permit 25 years ago when the area was completely desolate and there was no blacktop down near the residents. That's changed. The area is now heavily used by multiple groups and there is blacktop a couple of miles south from them.

Until you've had firsthand experience with some of these people, you have no idea what it's like. Some of them are perfectly nice, but most are the biggest jerks I've ever met in my life. They have no courtesy and actively try to destroy people's gear who are minding their own business.

The sea turtle argument is bogus. What causes more damage to a turtle nest? A 170-pound man or a 4,000 pound SUV? I had a conversation with a woman who is married to the head of False Cape State Park (the Va. Park to the south of Back Bay) and she told me why no one is allowed to use the beach after dark. She said, "Fishermen pose a hazard to the residents that are allowed to drive the beach until midnight." Basically, we get in their way.

Pop quiz: name me one other federal refuge that closes at night...there isn't one. Would NC residents tolerate only 14 people being allowed to drive in Pea Island or the Point? Those are both Federal refuge areas.

This is not a state park. It's Federal property and neither Virginia nor North Carolina has any say over how it's run. It took an act of Congress to give these people the special privilege and it'll take an act of Congress to repeal it. Don't waste your time complaining to the rangers. They can't or won't do anything about it.

Please, if you do nothing else tonight, write your two senators and tell them that it's time for this quarter-century old program to end. Open the refuge to all our vehicles or shut it down altogether. If the spirit moves you, drop a note to your member of the House of Representatives as well.

In the mean time, carry a camera and take pictures of their bad behavior.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

We need you to photograph every single vehicle you see on the beach, regardless of whether they're behaving or not. We need license numbers, because most of them aren't supposed to be there and are sharing passes.

Keep writing your Senators/Representatives!

Also, please drop a line to the Va. CCA at [email protected] and the RFA at [email protected]s.com.


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