# The term Bull Red????



## huckfinn38 (Jun 13, 2006)

Where did the term Bull Red Drum originate from? I dont see horns on these things when I catch em ...I would go further and say a good portion of the bigger drum caught are females and would actually be "Cow" Red Drum.

Any thoughts or other terms used in fishing that drive you up the wall?


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## blakester (Nov 19, 2008)

They r strong like bull. Caught me a cow red drum sounds gay.


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

Because so many claim to catch huge ones that no one ever sees, the name just stuck. "OHHHH, you caught one of those _BULL_ reds, huh?" Since above the DNA level cow pies don't seem the be gender specific, it works. LMAO (I guess that is a long way of saying...dunno.)

Robert


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## TONY B (Oct 26, 2009)

Jeb the ones you saw had already shed horns


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## huckfinn38 (Jun 13, 2006)

Tony, Robert sent me your Ultra Mag to "work" on...


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## huckfinn38 (Jun 13, 2006)

blakester said:


> They r strong like bull. Caught me a cow red drum sounds gay.


How about Big Drum, or Sasquatch Drum, or Moby Dick of a Drum????


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## DERFM (Jun 19, 2004)

Jebson38 said:


> How about Big Drum, or Sasquatch Drum, or Moby Dick of a Drum????


why change it ?
they are called bull reds . have been for a long time ...


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## Charlie2 (May 2, 2007)

*Bull Reds*



DERFM said:


> why change it ?
> they are called bull reds . have been for a long time ...


I have been fishing on the Gulf Coast for some 60 years and they've always been a Bull Red.

Everyone wants to rename things. Look at the whiting or plain old Mullet. Lisa? Sounds Gaylike. Leave the name alone.

We know that some are BIG! females. Fun to catch. Not good to eat unless charred(blackened) Eat the Rat reds or Puppy Drum.

Smaller reds have several names like 'Rat Red' and 'Puppy Drum'. Fool around with their name. Leave the Bull Reds name alone. 

Go fishing!:fishing:C2


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## huckfinn38 (Jun 13, 2006)

Charlie2 said:


> I have been fishing on the Gulf Coast for some 60 years and they've always been a Bull Red.
> 
> Everyone wants to rename things. Look at the whiting or plain old Mullet. Lisa? Sounds Gaylike. Leave the name alone.
> 
> ...


Derf and Charlie 2

Thanks for your thoughts on leaving the Drum name the Bull Drum....I am not serious about changing the name to the ones i listed above. I just think that using "Bull" is stupid. They are Red Drum not Bull Drum. The term Bull is used normally to represent the male gender of a species.


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## Bocefus (Apr 19, 2010)

*Bull Reds....*

On the OBX we call them 
Puppies-small ones (including slots)
Slots- 16-27 inch
Yearlings-30-40 inch
Drum-anything over 40 inch


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## huckfinn38 (Jun 13, 2006)

Bocefus said:


> On the OBX we call them
> Puppies-small ones (including slots)
> Slots- 16-27 inch
> Yearlings-30-40 inch
> Drum-anything over 40 inch


Amen brother....


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## 1obxnut (Mar 26, 2002)

Bocefus said:


> On the OBX we call them
> Puppies-small ones (including slots)
> Slots- 16-27 inch
> Yearlings-30-40 inch
> Drum-anything over 40 inch


I've also heard the biggun's are referred to as "bear"? to which size does it become that?..I'm afraid to find out.


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## chris storrs (Aug 25, 2005)

blakester said:


> They r strong like bull. Caught me a cow red drum sounds gay.


haha so does "caught me a bull red"


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## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

That's a can of worms isn't Jeb?

I don't like the term Bull Red either, So I just don't use the term. I'll stick with the tried and true, Drum, Old Drum, or Big Drum.


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## huckfinn38 (Jun 13, 2006)

I like worms.....
Storrs agreed


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## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

*"Bull Red"*



chris storrs said:


> haha so does "caught me a bull red"


That sounds like Jimmy Houston when he catches those 30 to 35 inch "Bull Reds" Down in the Gulf.


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## huckfinn38 (Jun 13, 2006)

They do exist....


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## Charlie2 (May 2, 2007)

*Bull Reds*



Ryan Y said:


> That sounds like Jimmy Houston when he catches those 30 to 35 inch "Bull Reds" Down in the Gulf.


Doesn't it sound better to say 'I caught a Bull Red', rather than 'I caught a Cow Red'? Think about it. Sounds much better for the TV audience.

Jimmy Houston sells Fishing Tackle. He probably heard the term from some native..I guess they wore the Largemouth Bass thing out.:spam: c2


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## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

Come on Jeb, Is that a flaming Red? You get that from some Club in Downtown Raleigh?

I dont recall you catching that.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Good observation. Almost all big fish of any species are females, which is why large stripers are called cows.

I can live with calling them "bull" drum. But what's silly is why drum between 30" and 40" are called "yearlings." (thanks to Wilber's intrepid reporting, turns out it was because of a drunk guy... and the name stuck)


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## steelhead32 (Jan 19, 2010)

cows were taken by tuna ie cowtown


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

Now figure out the names of the rest, roundhead, kingfish,sea mullet, door mats, etc. NC and VA call fish different names.


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## cobia_slaya (Jan 19, 2010)

blakester said:


> They r strong like bull. Caught me a cow red drum sounds gay.


lol exactly i bull reds


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## REKER (Jun 23, 2010)

sand flea said:


> Good observation. Almost all big fish of any species are females, which is why large stripers are called cows.
> 
> I can live with calling them "bull" drum. *But what's silly is why drum between 30" and 40" are called "yearlings." *(thanks to Wilber's intrepid reporting, turns out it was because of a drunk guy... and the name stuck)


That throws me off, too.

Usually the old salts have the best nick names for the big fish. Ive heard Bear name-of-fish and Sow name-of-fish used a bunch of times. 

Personally, I dont care what you call it as long as you had a good time doing so!


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## Jesse Lockowitz (Feb 13, 2006)

Ryan Y said:


> Come on Jeb, Is that a flaming Red? You get that from some Club in Downtown Raleigh?
> 
> I dont recall you *catching *that.



Really? Jeb always seemed like the CATCHER.....

:beer::beer:








shrek out.


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## HStew (Jan 8, 2009)

Tony B- cows don't shed horns, nor does any animal with horns. Animals with antlers shed their antlers. 
Old SALTS term for big old drum use to be "CHANNEL BASS". I'm not an old salt yet, I'm only 65!!!


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## huckfinn38 (Jun 13, 2006)

Ryan Y said:


> Come on Jeb, Is that a flaming Red? You get that from some Club in Downtown Raleigh?
> 
> I dont recall you catching that.



That is the one that was caught right after I tripped on your shocker....


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## jb1edlover (Jun 12, 2010)

Well I just moved here from Texas and from what I've seen of the "Bull" "Red" "Cow" "Moose" Drum......well we call em "Minnows" 
JB


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## Tacpayne (Dec 20, 2008)

jb1edlover said:


> Well I just moved here from Texas and from what I've seen of the "Bull" "Red" "Cow" "Moose" Drum......well we call em "Minnows"
> JB


You must be fishing in the wrong places then...


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## Oyster (Jun 28, 2000)

*They are Channel Bass*

To me the use of the term bull is not as offensive as hearing someone from MD/VA/NC call them redfish. That truly grates on my “respect for my heritage” sensibilities. I am surprised, after all the post in this thread, no one, except stew, has mentioned the true term for these fish—Channel Bass. Growing up that is all I ever heard them called. If my grandfather was alive today, he died in 1970, and someone started talking about redfish, he would think they were talking about red snapper. Throughout Claude Rogers reign as head of the VA Saltwater Fishing Tournament, all citations issued listed Channel Bass for species. When Claude Baine took over the helm of the agency in the latter 80’s, he immediately changed the species name printed on the plaques to the more generic Red Drum. Baine was a great director during his tenure, but I feel his dropping the use of the historical local term was his biggest blunder. We (MD/VA/NC fishermen) have the largest Channel Bass in the world (check the record books jb), and we don’t need outsiders telling us what to call them. I feel the rest of the country should conform to our standards, not the other way around. I would love to see the newer fishermen show respect for our heritage and use the terms that distinguish us from other areas as well as reflecting our traditions and local color.

So the next time you young bucks are on a MD/VA/NC beach and see an old gray beard that looks as though he may have caught a fish or two in his day, and you hope to pick his brain full of decades of fishing knowledge, approach cautiously and say “Sir, are you having any luck with the Channel Bass today”. You will be rewarded with a nod of approval, and, with a gleam in his eye, the old salt will most likely reveal some of his most guarded secrets.

This grumpy old man’s rant of the day
Don’t get me started on Rockfish.


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## huckfinn38 (Jun 13, 2006)

*Aint no Big Drum in NC*



jb1edlover said:


> Well I just moved here from Texas and from what I've seen of the "Bull" "Red" "Cow" "Moose" Drum......well we call em "Minnows"
> JB


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Dear Oyster

I respect your position and certainly remember Claude Bain who was termed an expert in Channel Bass fishing on the Virginia Capes in the 1970's

"you hope to pick his brain full of decades of fishing knowledge"

These young fellas with their teeney reels and scientific wonder oils and wispy kevlar line will more likely want "Pops" to get the heck out of the "Hole"
and if you bow up they will CC "Friends and Family" with their Blackberry and all their posse will be on the way......they only will show real interest if you have better bait.......

I lived on the OBX for nine years and have fished for Drum for nearly thirty.
The Hatteras Island people have all ways termed the Drum, the Drum i.e "Drum Stew" not "Channel Bass Stew" or "Redfish Stew"; the old Midgette and Hooper Grannies would wonder what dish is that?

Channel Bass was a Yankee i.e. anyone from North of the Bonner Bridge term.

Bull Red was a term from down south and Jimmy Houston and Roland Martin have popularized it. They also only fish only Louisiana with boats. I am sure they realized that OBX has bigger Drum, but the issue is that neither Jimmy or Roland can throw a heaver far enough to get bit. Roland don't fish Rodanthe......it makes for bad television if the hosts are "short" and never get bowed up.....

Bull Red was originally a New Orleans Madam of a house of ill repute catering exclusively to women in the early 1950's........Red was a heck of a chef though and also invented "Blackened Redfish" Some how the terms transitioned in the common vernacular of today and Texas and the Gulf States continue to evolve the term to Redfish and in memory to the Madam large ones are called Bull....


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## TONY B (Oct 26, 2009)

HStew said:


> Tony B- cows don't shed horns, nor does any animal with horns. Animals with antlers shed their antlers.
> Old SALTS term for big old drum use to be "CHANNEL BASS". I'm not an old salt yet, I'm only 65!!!


yes you are correct . But I think jeb knows what I was saying. SORRY jeb if I led you down the wrong path LMAO.


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## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

Ah the infamous shock leader around the ankle. Good thing it wasn't about eight more feet up on the beach. Not to mention, I hadn't removed the hook from that big ole bass yet.

"Head nod" to Garboman.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Bocefus said:


> On the OBX we call them
> Puppies-small ones (including slots)
> Slots- 16-27 inch
> Yearlings-30-40 inch
> Drum-anything over 40 inch


 Pretty close to right,although anything over 50" to the fork is considered "An Old Warrior".... This IS an Old Warrior,caught by a "youngbuck"...


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

That is a great pic of the "youngbuck".

Robert


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

Keep trainimg the "youngbucks" they are the the hope.


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## jb1edlover (Jun 12, 2010)

Jebson, nice pictures.... so when you hook those guys up to throw them back out for bait, where to you hook them? Just having some fun with ya!
JB


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

I like the term drum--- easier to pronounce than
"Sciaenops ocellatus" 

Redfish-- isn't that a Florida/Georgia term for the small fish those "Bass" fishermen chase around in their boats during "redfish" tournaments...


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## staylo17 (Jun 29, 2010)

blakester said:


> They r strong like bull. Caught me a cow red drum sounds gay.


I know im late, but that was funny


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## Oyster (Jun 28, 2000)

Garboman said:


> Dear Oyster....


Hey GM,
Sorry for the slow response.

Well I must admit that I never had a HI mailing address but I did spend a lot of time there. I started fishing the suds in the 60s and continued through most of the 70s. But I had stopped plying the island beaches by 80 because I felt they were getting too crowded. So, since I was gone by the time you got there, form my perspective, you could be one of the young bucks. I had moved my channel bass activities to the very fertile grounds about 125 miles N of the tri villages (hence the handle). But around then the call of blue water resonated strongest and cockpit work on a gorgeous Rybo, between Rudee and West Palm, dominated the vocation/avocation and eased this fisherman’s itch. In the spring, while working the boat N, we would lay over at Hatteras Harbor for a month or so chasing the inlets first blue one of the season. One evening, after a long day of rigging hoos and wiring bills, a group of us on the dock indulged in the island delicacy you mentioned. Chip Schaefer (Temptress), Grannies boy Buddy (Hatteras Fever), a few others and I had several delicious bowls of drum stew---from the Channel Bass Restaurant. 

I’m sure your experiences validate your feelings, but I am just as sure that referring to the term channel bass as yankee, has you dancing on the toes of many good Tar Heels and even quite a few island natives. I never heard Mr. Oden use anything but the term channel bass. Maybe it has to do with from which end of the island you hail. Check out this 1961 article, you’ll enjoy it. Note the chowder recipe at the end.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1073258/index.htm.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Dear Oyster Man

Never heard the term Channel Bass in Rodanthe I fished comm with the Midgettes and it was all ways just Drum. 

They also left the pieces of Drum large in their stews not like in the article.

I actually liked to grill Big Drum up to forty five pounds or so
skinned and fileted with the bloodline cut out and marinated and then put over wood coals on a hot grill, . I also fried the large Drum which tasted fine to me.

I think it is more a matter of taking care of the fish after you caught it 
and getting it iced down or in the Walk in cooler at Rodanthe Pier. I miss eating them, When I went to the point I took a big cooler with ice and took one home with me. You could take two at that time, but I only would take one so they would be fresh, I never froze them, just kept them on ice.

I reckon if they did not put a stop to it the Drum would have been wiped out from the rec pressure...

Four of my buddies that were hard core Drum fishermen gave it up after the moratorium on the large er... Channel Bass........
Fishing for Drum is about the only fishing I do anymore.....I still at 56 am one of the young bucks, I go to the gym and practice casting just for the fall, fishing keeps you young. I cast better now than I did in my thirties.......I got five or ten more years in me before I give it up.......

I like this excerpt from the story you posted

"So exercised are some Hatterasmen about the hypothetical menace of the beach buggy that one of them recently startled a buggy driver into a brake-slamming stall by appearing suddenly in the beam of his headlights with a drawn pistol and threatening to shoot out the lights. He didn't have to. The driver put them out."

It sounds like a Hatteras fella I knew...........

You take care old man


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## Oyster (Jun 28, 2000)

I’m with you; I always had the chunky style. But that grated durm fried up in some smoked, dry cured country bacon grease and maybe just a hint of old bay might make me have to smack my Momma. I have to acknowledge, years ago I was reading an old Hatteras Island cookbook from the sixties and found a recipe for drum stew that was written by a then 80 yr. old lady. She was from either upper Hatteras or Roanoke, I don’t recall. She referred to the fish used in her stew as drumfish. 

Up here, the marsh grass if beginning to turn, the moon will be full in about a week; it’s about ready to dust loose. It should be hot and heavy until about the middle of Oct. or even Halloween if the weather holds. I will be there for sure a day after the new moon (early waxing crescent) in Oct. I better not see any lights on the beach. 

I think I met the pistol packer a few times on Hattie. He looked different each time but always had the same belligerent attitude, must have been a juicer. I was so mellow that I could hardly respond to a screaming reel (it was the 70s); much less worry about what others were doing.

I’m sure you’ll be working north beach in a month or so. Good luck


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