# Yes, we as a group (fishermen) are that stupid



## Byron/pa (Mar 14, 2007)

Are we as fisherman that stupid????? Are you kidding? Of course we are that stupid, *or we just do not care*. If you ever questioned that, then you fall into that group............no offense intended.

Going way beyond the fact the "your section" of the world is facing clousers, lets look at some other areas.

How many fishermen are there in the U.S.? In the World? How many of us spend more than $100.00 on tackle/bait/gas/etc to go fishing? *How many of us have spent $.41 and taken a moment to write a letter to our elected officials letting them know our point of view? * Maybe we're lazy - *or we just do not care*

Out of all these fisherman, how many belong to an orginization that spends money to protect what we love? How many fisherman have donated money to a loby group that protects what we love? Maybe we are all poor - *or we just do not care*

When the Susquehanna river in Pennsylvania ( my section of the world ) is suffering from major pollution problems, the fishermen ignore it because it might require raising taxes to fix the problem - *or we just do not care*.

When we had the oil spill in the gulf last year, where was the outcry from the fishermen? What, we can't cry - that might result in higher gas prices - *or we just don't care*. But we think the fishermen of LA should care about a beach clouser in NC?

What about global warming possibly having an impact on fishing in the future? No, no, we can't complain about that, it would hurt big business - *or we just don't care. *

You old farts, like me, remember the exxon valdieze. Again, where was the outcry from the fishermen? 

When the trawllers in NC wrecked havoc on the striped bass, where was the outcry from fishermen all over the country? I'm sure we were busy with other things - *or we just do not care*

And the list of inactions that we, as fishermen, have taken goes on and on.

As fisherman, we *should* be the primarry stewards of the land. But we are not, instead we let that for groups like the Adubon Society, Greenpeace, and yes, even PETA is much better organized than we are. 

If you were a politician, would you listen to a thousand quiet people or ten outspoken ones? If you wanted to get reelected you'd listen to the ten. 

The simple fact of the matter, is that we as fishermen have compleatly failed ourselves and future generations of anglers.............and that is very sad. 

Yea, you can call me a tree hugger (I do not understand why you hate trees) and you can call me an enviromentalist (I do not understand how you can love fish and not want to protect the enviroment) You can think of me however you want, and you can point out that I can't spell. But someday when there is no more fishing because the water is dirty, the beaches have been closed, it's been made illegal, or whatever the reason, your grandchildren will wish that you had been a steward to the land. 

So you can boycot a TV show or a store, and at least you are doing something, and you can feel all better about yourself........or you could become involved. Or, like most fisherman, you could just wait to complain and let somebody else be the outspoken one.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

And just who is this "WE" you speak of.

I get it, but I don't think the way to gather support is by berating/name calling those you are trying to enlist to the cause.


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## Byron/pa (Mar 14, 2007)

> And just who is this "WE" you speak of.


WE = us fisherman, the vast majority of us, including myself. Really did not mean to berate or engage in name calling, other than "stupid"............

.............I just get upset when I see how little WE *seem* to care. And how much "others" *seem* to care.


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## fishnuttz (Jun 27, 2008)

This rant makes me wonder just what you have done for the cause ?? Have you driving 4 hrs to STAND IN THE SAND for the cause ??? I have. Have you donated money for the the cause OBPA or such ???? I may not be As smart as some but I'm doing everything I know how...BY the way the cause is fishermans right incase you didn't figure it out ..


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## steelhead32 (Jan 19, 2010)

im not really sure what you are trying to do, yell at people for supposedly not caring or trying to urge people to jump on your bandwagon but either way its just pissing me off
calling me stupid is not something i take lightly, as the same with saying i dont care or calling me im lazy
im not going to sit here and tell you all the wonderful things ive done to help our environment but im also not going to complain that you are being a total a$$hole
no im just going to say thats ur stupid uneducated opinion and stick with it

but i have one question...*WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?*


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## Ian (Nov 28, 2007)

why dont you give yourself a pat on the back fishnutt,i think his rant was intersting to read unlike some of the small time activist,and all the crying ive been reading.Do you call urself a fisherman?being from hopewell i know u know something about pollution,look at the dirty james,u couldnt pay me to eat a fish out of there!what about that big spill a couple of years ago, did u do something about that?u know the 1 im talking about,all that so called fertillizer,in reallity its more of a chemicale waste that takes decades to disapate and the effects last just as long.besides that, we were founded by england and the old english doctraine stated that any body of water that leads to the ocean, man has the right to fish.but them days are long gone.i dont care if they put no fishing signs up,ill still fish cause its in my blood,ill just be sneaky about it.everything is set in motion like the spin of the earth and there isnt much u can do about that.


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## fishnuttz (Jun 27, 2008)

Ian said:


> why dont you give yourself a pat on the back fishnutt,i think his rant was intersting to read unlike some of the small time activist,and all the crying ive been reading.Do you call urself a fisherman?being from hopewell i know u know something about pollution,look at the dirty james,u couldnt pay me to eat a fish out of there!what about that big spill a couple of years ago, did u do something about that?u know the 1 im talking about,all that so called fertillizer,in reallity its more of a chemicale waste that takes decades to disapate and the effects last just as long.besides that, we were founded by england and the old english doctraine stated that any body of water that leads to the ocean, man has the right to fish.but them days are long gone.i dont care if they put no fishing signs up,ill still fish cause its in my blood,ill just be sneaky about it.everything is set in motion like the spin of the earth and there isnt much u can do about that.


Why should we have to be SNEAKY about it I don't understand??? YEAH I know I Don't eat any of the fish I catch up here ... DO YOU want the OBX to be the same.. Not because of pollution just because you CAN'T get there??? Point blank is I'm doing all I know to do..... And just who are you and what are YOU DOING .. And While I'm not doing much It's all I know ... I don't appriciate someone calling ME stupid or saying I DON'T CARE ..... Because I do


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## Byron/pa (Mar 14, 2007)

> I don't appriciate someone calling ME stupid or saying I DON'T CARE


My intention was not to call you stupid, or to say that you do not care. My intention was to call "us" (we - see definition above) stupid and to state that "we" do not care.

Calm down, read it again and tell me the parts you disagree with. Please read


> no offense intended







> Point blank is I'm doing all I know to do.....


 And the problem is, that is all "we" can do, and I commend you for doing that much, which is more than many others do.

But, lets look at the beach clousers, can we do that? What would have happened, if as soon as this situation started, 100,000 fishermen from all across the Country, had mobilized to protest this? 
That's what the bird lovers did (and I'm a bird lover) and it worked for them, what did "we" do? As far as I can tell, a dozen of "us" showed up at a town meeting. Thats about what happens everytime a fishery is threatened, anywhere.

Once you clear my blood from your eyes, please remember these two statements I made in the original post:

As fisherman, we should be the primarry stewards of the land. But we are not, instead we let that for groups like the Adubon Society, Greenpeace, and yes, even PETA is much better organized than we are. 

The simple fact of the matter, is that we as fishermen have compleatly failed ourselves and future generations of anglers.............and that is very sad. 

I am NOT laying blame on anyone other than "we" as a group, and if you think I'm wrong................you need to remove your blindfold.


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## Ian (Nov 28, 2007)

im sorry to say,i dont think anybody will be allowed to drive on the beaches in the outerbabks in the next couple of years,everybody knows the bird thing is bogis,.there is alot of things that i have grown up doing doing that i cant do now, without risking a ticket!I see in the future that anything that involes fun will probally be illegal.that is just my opinion.it really sucks it really does,but my short time i have here left, is not going to be ruined by a bunch of crybabys. This is just a start of things to come.Thats why ive decided to become A drunk,now I am oblivious to all around me,and it feels great:beer:


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*I have been at the Front of this fight since it started*

and will not list what I have done... Countless hours for the last 10 years..

Call me stupid if you will, no skin off my back..

What you describe is called APATHY... Then, we will get just what we deserve.. Not only that, it shows ignorance, at least the Birder's can and do stick together, all fishermen do is in-fight amost themselves..

When Hatteras is Lost, good luck finding a better surf fishing spot, anywhere in the world.. 

We were the last stand, and when we Cried out for help, it never came..

Thanks

JAM


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## fishnuttz (Jun 27, 2008)

JAM said:


> and will not list what I have done... Countless hours for the last 10 years..
> 
> Call me stupid if you will, no skin off my back..
> 
> ...


I'm sorry for listing a couple of things I've done.. I know allot of people have done more your one of them John.. I don't mean to fight it just aggravates me when others seems to put y'all down that has done more..I do every thing I can for being Unemployed for the better part of two years. I don't know if it will ever be enough but I Will keep trying to support Hatteras and everybody on it.. best wishes D.J. :redface:


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

We were the last stand, and when we Cried out for help, it never came..

thats not exactly true now is it?

maybe not enough but it came.
it's not a lost cause as the fight still goes on
the enemy is strong but they can be taken down.
some of us will fight to the bitter end because it is the right thing to do.
i refuse to believe that we can not defeat the enviros if we stay focused and united!


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

fish bucket said:


> We were the last stand, and when we Cried out for help, it never came..
> 
> thats not exactly true now is it?
> 
> ...


Thats the problem. Most are not united and there are way too many different agendas. The biggest problem is most are not concerned until it directly effects their vacation or fishing trip....


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## Byron/pa (Mar 14, 2007)

> The biggest problem is most are not concerned until it directly effects their vacation or fishing trip....
> __________________


That was great....................if you had added "or untill it happens in their backyard" it would have been one of the best quotes I have seen in a long time.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

AbuMike said:


> Thats the problem. Most are not united and there are way too many different agendas. The biggest problem is most are not concerned until it directly effects their vacation or fishing trip....


 Yeap,good example recs vs coms... Getting fishermen to unite on a cause that is just and both sides feel isn't giving the other advantage,is like hearding cats.. jmho......


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

you guys are right to a point but it is getting better.
more and more are seeing that only together can we accomplish meaningful reform.
gotta look at the bright side of life


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Hard for some to see the light when they live in darkness because they are too lazy to fight for themselves.


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## Ian (Nov 28, 2007)

well if they close the point down for drum season just set a date and perform a protest.( protest at the point )that will get their attention, everybodys doing it now days. I think that would draw the attention u would need to create a difference,hell even on a bad day of fishing the place looks like a circus,think of it, pass out flyers, tell everybody u know with a 4x4,the internet.... just think about it , the last shabang at the point! hell it would make national news (Hell NO WE WONT GO!) IM WILLING TO PROTEST KNOWING IT WOULD BE THE LAST TIME I WOULD BE ABLE TO FISH THE POINT.just a thought.........:beer:


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## DCSCO (Jan 12, 2011)

When we had the oil spill in the gulf last year, where was the outcry from the fishermen? I heard the fisherman and others cryout? I cried out why were they permitted to drill in deep water when they could drill in shallow water at minimal risk? If you are inferring that more political regulation is required, You are grasping at straws. 

What about global warming possibly having an impact on fishing in the future? No, no, we can't complain about that, it would hurt big business - or we just don't care. Again, more call for political regulation. It doesn't work.


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## skunk king (Mar 25, 2008)

a lot more has happened that you're aware of. Problem is this puppy is being handled in the courts where we can't do much because our side was dumb and signed the consent degree. Yep, I called it dumb and I know a lot of good people think it was the right decision, but I knew it wasn't and would lead to where we are now with limited access being the new status quo and our side unable to appeal, getting the case taken out of the court of Judge Boyle on My Arse. We shot ourselves in the foot and no amount of protesting or mobilizing will change that at this point in time. 

In my opinion, our side needs to take the tactics of our opposition. We should start a national organization and sue the government to open every closed beach or river bank that is closed for fishing. Launch a publicity campaign showing how the econuts are communist that hate fishing and American traditions and so send us some money to sue the pants off the federal government. We should get the same privileged standing as a NGO and leverage that to influence park services.


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## kiptofreak (Jun 27, 2010)

Good post Byron, although sad you are completely right.

Unfortunately unity is synonymous with fishermen/women. Just look at this site as an example. Experience vs. Newbies (tourons). Spot burning vs. sharing. Traditional methods vs. unconventional methods. Republicans vs. Democrats (on a fishing site?) Braid vs. Mono. etc. etc. etc. 

This is one of if not the best fishing forum out there. This is a site where fishermen/women are supposed to get together and share reports, methods, information yet almost half of it is bickering and putting down others not as experienced. The ones that are knowledgeable and generous rarely post. It's more I'm the best fisherman in the world, I've caught more blank blank blank fish than you ever will. Great informative posts are found using the search feature from years back. 

We are all aware of the problems that us fishermen/women face but instead of talking about solutions we talk about the problems. We are divided even when fighting a common enemy. ie. recs vs. comms Look at Hatteras, how many groups have you given money to? OBPA, NCBBA Now, I think these groups do the best they can given the resources they have but against NATIONAL groups such as DOW, Audubon they don't stand a chance. I really do commend everyone who devote their time to the cause but I can't help but think they are fighting a losing battle. If by some miracle we can get all fishermen/women involved (boaters, pier and surf, east coast, west coast, gulf states, commercial, freshwater) and start ONE national organization with millions of registered due paying members, then and only then can we give the other side a real run for their money. All of us love to fish, that is the one thing I think we can all agree upon.


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## Fishwander (Jul 2, 2010)

> Drumdum
> "Yeap,good example recs vs coms... Getting fishermen to unite on a cause that is just and both sides feel isn't giving the other advantage,is like hearding cats.."


http://www2.wnct.com/news/2011/feb/16/area-fishermen-fighting-stay-afloat-ar-789777/

Well the fishermen are uniteing this weekend in St Petersburg Florida (2/25/11) for a demonstration against fishing closures in the SOUTHEAST ; it is inclusive of *RECREATIONAL* and * COMMERCIAL* fishermen , and sponsored by FRA who has initiated a lawsuit on behalf of *ALL FISHERMEN * (..err , fisherpeople )

The lawsuit is about *new closures * which is based on 5 and 6 year old data, which was dubious from the start. It is about "Catch Shares" which is more about eliminating the fishermen than it is about saving the fishery ! Its about NOAA /EDF/PEW/ etc.,.. Its about tyranny rather than rational thought , etc.,...

It is a demonstration initiated by FRA : Fishing Rights Alliance:
http://www.thefra.org/

If you can't afford to join , at least send them some money to continue the legal fight for the lawsuit to defend both recreational and commercial fishing. Lets sue the bastages !!, and it should be done as a "Class Action Suit " under the title of ... "We , The People "

http://www.thefra.org/fishing_matters_to_me.htm

Its time to " put up , or shut up ! " This isn't a regional fight , this is a National fight where we here have had enough to be pi$$ed , and willing to take on the govt., and the non-profits who are controlling the national agencies . Please show your support, either thru financial contributions , facebook , twitter , etc., etc..... !!

Fishwander

" I can stands so much ,.. and then I can stands no more ..." ~ Popeye , the sailor man


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## Danman (Dec 13, 2007)

Good article Byron...maybe if you would have left out the first sentence of your post some of the replies wouldn't have been neg. toward your thought.....I have given up hope many years ago on the words "if we all unite" ..never going to happen...JMO..:fishing:


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Fishwander said:


> http://www2.wnct.com/news/2011/feb/16/area-fishermen-fighting-stay-afloat-ar-789777/
> 
> Well the fishermen are uniteing this weekend in St Petersburg Florida (2/25/11) for a demonstration against fishing closures in the SOUTHEAST ; it is inclusive of *RECREATIONAL* and * COMMERCIAL* fishermen , and sponsored by FRA who has initiated a lawsuit on behalf of *ALL FISHERMEN * (..err , fisherpeople )
> 
> ...


 Sounds like the group that I wish had been there 20yrs ago... Can't be there,but will pull what pennies I have to contribute.. 

If for no other reason CATCH SHARES should be the attention of both rec and com....


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

but they are starting to unite!!!!!!
the washington rally and now this one are proof.
the more we get pissed on the more see the light and join the force.
will we ever get 100%,no.
will we ever get the majority,it's a possibility.
we are an awakening force to be reckoned with and the politicians are starting to see that!


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

Byron/pa said:


> Are we as fisherman that stupid????? Are you kidding? Of course we are that stupid, *or we just do not care*. If you ever questioned that, then you fall into that group............no offense intended.
> 
> Going way beyond the fact the "your section" of the world is facing clousers, lets look at some other areas.
> 
> ...


1. Rhetorical question.
2. If you did not see that, then you fall into said "Group"
3. Thats why I belong to the ASA, American Sport Fishing assoc. http://www.asafishing.org/
4. Been Involved with the Cape Hatteras Anglers Club, NCBBA, OBPA, UMSF and Letter Writing Campains for teh last 10 years..
5. See number 4
6. With the River polutions thing, would you rather have an organization like, lets say the Defenders of Wild Life or National Audubon come in and preform PADLOCK MANAGEMENT for ya????? 
7. Out cry from fishermen came from all over the world.. fishermen in their boats helped contain one of the biggest disasters in the world..Had friends with boats go down there to both help out and make a living at the same time. Same said disaster would have never have happened if Oil companys were alowed to drill closer to the shore, but wait, guess who forced them offshore in the first place and hold a majority of the Oil leases in the Gulf of mexico...... National Audubon Society....
8. We had about 12 inch's of Global Warming On the Beach's of Hatteras this year..
9. See 7 
10. Rape of a fishery is Rape be it by the rules or otherwise, problem lies with a gov. agency that knows nothing about fishing and is headed by an extremist evviromental lawyer NOAA, and the DMF's are the ones to blame.. Note no tickets issued, it was disgusting but it was legal.. Out crys came from all over the US on all the fishing boards..
11. I see no list of inactions 
12. We are and have always been Good Stewards of our land, our Grandfathers started these organizations Audubon, when it was for conservation, not enviromentalism.. They have been hi-jacked by lawyers who are totaly for the GREEN, MONEY that is.. Giant land grabs are happening all over the US.. They buy all the lots around a lake or pond, then close it to access. Close many areas to Hunting.. Great Group..
13. The Polital System is broken, PERIOD..Who spends 30 million dollars to be elected to a job that pays 400,000 and why?
14. Agree, for different reasons lack of unity and trusting the gov. got us where we are..
15. see one throut 14..

Just could not let this slide so I went Point for point with ya, notice I can't spell either.. Many have been in this fight for a very long time, though we are the few, we have worked our @sses of for access to public lands, if a tv station wants to be a sports mans station with fishing and hunting the least they could do is support who supports them.. Back in the day this would not fly.. But in todays world everyone is too busy playin both sides of the fence, instead of doing what is right..

When its over my friends and I who have been in this fight since day one, will be able to sleep well at night knowing we gave our all.. Can you say that..

JAM


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## repair5343 (Jul 8, 2001)

Here in Florida when the oil spill happened some of the first people to respond were the fisherman.
A lot of money and lively hoods were lost.
The reason you northern guys didn't here a lot about it was because of the lack of good press coverage.
The press was all over it down here; The good and the bad of it.
Don't blame groups IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE REAL STORY.


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

jam,very good reply.

especially liked #10 and #12

i,too, will keep fighting the bahstuds because the cause is worth fighting for.
i strongly believe the tide will turn and we will win.
politics created this mess and politics will be the answer.


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## robc22 (Oct 20, 2009)

drumdum said:


> yeap,good example recs vs coms... Getting fishermen to unite on a cause that is just and both sides feel isn't giving the other advantage,is like hearding cats.. Jmho......


agree to that...........


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## Suds (Apr 17, 2010)

Byron, I absolutely DISAGREE with all of your assertions. If it wasn't for concerned recreational fishermen taking action there would be no fish left in the ocean at all. It was the Fed's stated goal to manage fisheries for maximum commercial output for decades. And stocks were wiped out wholesale. Cod, swordfish, flounder, stripers and many others were almost fished into extinction. All of those species and more were brought back by concerted efforts with recreational fishermen at the front and commercial fishermen being dragged kicking and screaming behind all the way. A conservation minded recreational fisherman has absolutely nothing in common with a commercial fisherman. All that"divide and conquor" garbage is exactly that, garbage. There are 10's of thousands of commercial fishermen on the east coast, there are 10's of MILLIONS of recreational anglers. Commercial interests are trying to tap into recreational fishermen's numbers for political reasons. Recreational fishermen do not need, and I personally do not want, any association with commercial fishermen. As to the closures, every fish left in the ocean is a victory for conservation minded anglers. I have no issues allowing even species that are not overfished some breathing room to reproduce. So I can't catch as many this year as I want to. That is what will guarentee that my grandchildren can catch fish 20 years from now, not some unholy alliance with the dark side. I have been to too many VMRC meetings and listend to what the commercial guys have to say and how they think. They don't give a damn about you or your rights and when they are done with you they'll toss you in the trash can. Bank on it.


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## TimKan7719 (Apr 4, 2008)

The reason Autobah, and the rest are so organized is beacuse thats thier job. Thats how they earn a living they get paid to fight.
I know Plenty of fishermmen that do what they can when they can and how they can but as a recreational fisherman I have other responsibilities I must take care of as well. Was I pissed about the Oil spills, sure was, both exxion, and The gulf. Hell I get Pissed about the over Fishing Other countires do in Waters around the World. (I think Global Warming is a Hoax, so not even going to talk about that)... But I do what i can when i can and I am by no means Stupid.


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## Lipyourown (May 11, 2005)

Suds said:


> Byron, I absolutely DISAGREE with all of your assertions. If it wasn't for concerned recreational fishermen taking action there would be no fish left in the ocean at all. It was the Fed's stated goal to manage fisheries for maximum commercial output for decades. And stocks were wiped out wholesale. Cod, swordfish, flounder, stripers and many others were almost fished into extinction. All of those species and more were brought back by concerted efforts with recreational fishermen at the front and commercial fishermen being dragged kicking and screaming behind all the way. A conservation minded recreational fisherman has absolutely nothing in common with a commercial fisherman. All that"divide and conquor" garbage is exactly that, garbage. There are 10's of thousands of commercial fishermen on the east coast, there are 10's of MILLIONS of recreational anglers. Commercial interests are trying to tap into recreational fishermen's numbers for political reasons. Recreational fishermen do not need, and I personally do not want, any association with commercial fishermen. As to the closures, every fish left in the ocean is a victory for conservation minded anglers. I have no issues allowing even species that are not overfished some breathing room to reproduce. So I can't catch as many this year as I want to. That is what will guarentee that my grandchildren can catch fish 20 years from now, not some unholy alliance with the dark side. I have been to too many VMRC meetings and listend to what the commercial guys have to say and how they think. They don't give a damn about you or your rights and when they are done with you they'll toss you in the trash can. Bank on it.


Could not have said it better myself. Before everyone asks where are we gonna get our bait from: back in the day catching your own bait took less time than driving to the store to buy it. The schools of bunker were miles long and could be caught in many different ways by *7 year olds *on the beach or dock or pier. It was easier than digging worms. You ban ALL nets in the Bay and you'll see. FYI, I have no issue with hook and line comm. but I don't know enough about catch shares yet to form an opinion.


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