# Casting help.



## vahunter (Jun 16, 2009)

Okay, so I am in my field with my new Penn 12' and Daiwa emcast spooled w/ 17lb. I watched you tube pendulum casting and I go out tie on a 4oz and start zinging. I may have gotten 100yds. Is this expected? Should I be doing better? Is 4oz too much? Which way do you get the sinker going before throwing? I am a lefty also...


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

vahunter said:


> Okay, so I am in my field with my new Penn 12' and Daiwa emcast spooled w/ 17lb. I watched you tube pendulum casting and I go out tie on a 4oz and start zinging. I may have gotten 100yds. Is this expected? Should I be doing better? Is 4oz too much? Which way do you get the sinker going before throwing? I am a lefty also...


You might want to try OTG (Off the Ground) casting to start. THe only way we can really critique your casting is by seeing it, or at least a video of it.

17 lb test is pretty heavy line for a spinner, lighter (thinner) line will get you more distance, but if your fishing with the set up-- 100 yds really isn't bad.

I'm lefty also and will post up some video footage of a pendulum cast for you to look at ( might be a few days). It might help to watch video, but the best way is to get some one on one help in person. Where you located ?


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

Taking videos of yourself is a good idea.. Posting it on P&S is good\bad in my opinion. The problem with posting it online is most of the guys who will give you advice aren't field casters, and the ones that are aren't good enough to give you proper advice (me included). Tommy and a few others are the exception to the rule.. So when you get advice make sure you ask them what's their Personal Best (in a distance event) is.. Even then you will still get more bad advice than good..


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

kmw21230 said:


> Taking videos of yourself is a good idea.. Posting it on P&S is good\bad in my opinion. The problem with posting it online is most of the guys who will give you advice aren't field casters, and the ones that are aren't good enough to give you proper advice (me included). Tommy and a few others are the exception to the rule.. So when you get advice make sure you ask them what's their Personal Best (in a distance event) is.. Even then you will still get more bad advice than good..


He's casting (maybe) 300 feet. Lots of decent casters-- yourself included-- could certainly get him started with the basics.

It's not rocket science....


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## vahunter (Jun 16, 2009)

Surf Cat, I am in Giles Va. near Virginia Tech. Where is Ruther Glen? I have never heard of it. I am going to check out some OTG videos and practice more, but I am going to be in the surf Sat. 6-27.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

vahunter said:


> Surf Cat, I am in Giles Va. near Virginia Tech. Where is Ruther Glen? I have never heard of it. I am going to check out some OTG videos and practice more, but I am going to be in the surf Sat. 6-27.


Your a pretty good distance away-- Ruther Glen is about 30 miles North of Richmond-- off I-95. 

I make it down to VT ocassionally, my daughter goes to school there.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

Mark, you better get off the web and go home and practice. I want to beat you this fall by a couple feet not 30-40 yards.. LOL Casting is like golf (i assume..) it's better to get PROPER help and skip over creating bad habits. He would be better off contacting Tommy Farmer for private lessons.. 




Surf Cat said:


> He's casting (maybe) 300 feet. Lots of decent casters-- yourself included-- could certainly get him started with the basics.
> 
> It's not rocket science....


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

kmw21230 said:


> Mark, you better get off the web and go home and practice. I want to beat you this fall by a couple feet not 30-40 yards.. LOL Casting is like golf (i assume..) it's better to get PROPER help and skip over creating bad habits. He would be better off contacting Tommy Farmer for private lessons..


You don't get it-- he's not trying to cast 800 feet in tournaments-- he's not looking to create perfect form-- he's looking to get better fishing distance-- that only takes some minor fundamentals to improve over 300 feet with a bare sinker-- help the guy out.

Since you brought up golf, ever notice that the top paid instructors in the world are usually not the best golfers themselves ????

There is nothing wrong with taking lessons from Tommy, but how many have you paid for ???

It's obviously not realistic for everyone to travel hundreds of miles to take private lessons, and not the most cost effective method for learning the basics.

Video learning can be very helpful to most anyone-- but if you don't know what your doing to start with, watching your own videos may not give you any clues.

Obviously Delaware was more important to you than to me. 

Did you once stop to consider that I 

A) Intentionally set aside my normal tourny rod (ZTI) to test cast 3 other rods, none of which I had used in a competition before.

B) Spent most of the time playing around with the pendulum cast, instead of doing my usual gorundcast.

If putting up my best numbers would have been important to me, I certainly would have stuck with what I had been doing all year.

Keep your eye on the target K, to me Delaware was practice--the Nationals is where my focus is-- but I understand-- you were trying to win a sideplate.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

Im really glad to hear you weren't concerned about putting up good numbers.. That makes me feel a lot better now...


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

FYI... I really like Mark (Surf Cat) so when i take jabs at him it's done in pure fun... Please dont take it seriously... He's a know-it-all but none of us are perfect!!!! LOL


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

kmw21230 said:


> Im really glad to hear you weren't concerned about putting up good numbers.. That makes me feel a lot better now...


Glad to hear that.. 

Nice to see your head hasn't swollen up too much...  

All kidding aside-- any plans to hit the parks over the 4th weekend. I'm guessing Bob is itching to get out. Any word ??


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## Sar315 (Jun 21, 2009)

IMHO, overhead cast is much easier for beginner and you will make 400 feet first day guaranteed.
Another plus of overhead cast is that sinker will flies straight forward even if you make some mistake. With OTG cast sinker might fly off ~45 degrees any direction - very dangerous if people/property are around.

see link how to make of the beach (overhead) cast.

http://terryedmonds.com/casting1.html

(Trick is to keep right arm straight and step forward into the cast
(IMHO again, but info in the link really helped me))


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Sar315 said:


> IMHO, overhead cast is much easier for beginner and you will make 400 feet first day guaranteed.
> Another plus of overhead cast is that sinker will flies straight forward even if you make some mistake. With OTG cast sinker might fly off ~45 degrees any direction - very dangerous if people/property are around.
> 
> see link how to make of the beach (overhead) cast.
> ...


See now that's being helpful Kwesi. 



THe basic overhead thump is not a bad cast for starters, especially in crowds, but does have some limits.

Once a feel for this basic technique is aquired, the hatteras cast can be learned to add additional yards, and is relatively safe in crowds and quite effective also.


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

Then you are ready to graduate up to the OTG off the ground(or as they say on the East Coast off the beach) and then the Pendulum. You can get Nick Meyers video on casting at breakawayusa.com. Nick covers all these cast plus shows you excercises to help with your form(he calls it Nickchee). I myself never had formal training and learned to cast the pendulum from watching others,I also have Nick's video. Also on Breakaways site Nick has links to watch him perform the casts. Sorry for plugging Nick's site on here but the video is worth the purchase for a begining caster.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

curtisb said:


> Then you are ready to graduate up to the OTG off the ground(or as they say on the East Coast off the beach) and then the Pendulum. You can get Nick Meyers video on casting at breakawayusa.com. Nick covers all these cast plus shows you excercises to help with your form(he calls it Nickchee). I myself never had formal training and learned to cast the pendulum from watching others,I also have Nick's video. Also on Breakaways site Nick has links to watch him perform the casts. Sorry for plugging Nick's site on here but the video is worth the purchase for a begining caster.



I'll second that-- one of the first instructional videos I bought was a VHS tape (tells you it's been awhile) from Nick, good stuff.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

Im free on the 4th.... When ever bob is ready to start throwing I'm there.. Just bring your weed eater..


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

In fishing conditions i use the over head thump 99% of the time.. In my opinion the power casts shouldnt be used in a fishing setting.. Too Dangerous..



Surf Cat said:


> See now that's being helpful Kwesi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

kmw21230 said:


> Im free on the 4th.... When ever bob is ready to start throwing I'm there.. Just bring your weed eater..


We'll keep an eye on the forecast and see how things are looking mid week, next week.

I'm off Friday as well and can do any of the three days Fri - Sun.


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

Surf Cat said:


> I'll second that-- one of the first instructional videos I bought was a VHS tape (tells you it's been awhile) from Nick, good stuff.


Same video I got, plus I got his fishing one but it is a dvd.

Also as long as your not shoulder to shoulder or the beach isn't to crowded you can use a power cast. You just don't hit like you do a tournament cast.


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## vahunter (Jun 16, 2009)

WOW guys I just want to reach a little farther out in the surf, not examine the physics of the cast. I will keep practicing and hopefully I won't knock anyone out next week. Thanks


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

vahunter said:


> WOW guys I just want to reach a little farther out in the surf, not examine the physics of the cast. I will keep practicing and hopefully I won't knock anyone out next week. Thanks


Good luck, when you go.

Since I promised some videos here are a couple of links. THis first one is of Mike Langston doing a tournament pendulum. Mike is a very good caster, and hopefully you can see how the tournament pendulum is done. The slow motion should help you see the direction of the lead, as that was your orginal question. Sorry, the very end got cut off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJpp6FV_mUo


This next one is me showing a simpler version of a fishing pendulum, tho for the most part the basics are the same. In the first cast the camera was out of position, so I moved it around so you can see the cast from different angles. For the first three casts I was using a LaCrosse ball attached to the shock leader-- it's easier to see than a weight. In the last cast I used a 150 gram (5 1/4 oz) tournament weight. The reel is an Abu 6500 mag elite-- loaded with 14lb (.35 mm) test line- and a 50 lb shock leader. 

Keep in mind that I never actually use this cast for fishing-- unless the beach is empty around me. 95 % of the time I use the OTG for fishing-- or the Hatteras cast under crowded conditions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5eM7B9pBUY


For an example of the OTG-- here is a previous thread I posted with link to the video of the OTG cast.

http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63614


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## Jeremiahm (Aug 28, 2005)

*fishing gear*

I'm a novice caster, but have been doing it for years. I go to the outer banks once a year, so I practice for about a month a year for that trip. Been doing this for about 15 years now. 

I have hit the 500 foot mark on a field exactly once. My best casts usually end up right around 450 feet. It's been years since I have made any really, really big casts (I call anything over 475 a really biggun). I used to lift a lot of weights, and pure power got me there. Since I've been in my desk job now for seven years, it's caught up with me. My big casts are getting shorter each year here lately. I think I need more technique to hit it out there farther. 

My biggest problem is keeping the spool from spinning underneath my thumb when I'm loading it up. I see all these videos on this thread, but they are all with low mounted reels. Could someone post some stuff with standard mounted reel seats so we can see it done? 

My gear is:

Pinnacle Absolute heaver (vintage 2000)
Daiwa Sl30Sh
17 pound suffix tri
50 pound shocker
8 ounce weight

I'm a bigger guy (6'3" and about 275 these days) so I rely on strength to get me far, but the finese stage of life is right around the corner for me. ha ha 

If you guys could let me in on some tips on keeping that thumb from sliding, that would be awesome. I'm right now using bike inner tube on my thumb, but I feel that is just a band aid for improper something. 

Thanks for the help.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Jeremiahm said:


> I'm a novice caster, but have been doing it for years. I go to the outer banks once a year, so I practice for about a month a year for that trip. Been doing this for about 15 years now.
> 
> I have hit the 500 foot mark on a field exactly once. My best casts usually end up right around 450 feet. It's been years since I have made any really, really big casts (I call anything over 475 a really biggun). I used to lift a lot of weights, and pure power got me there. Since I've been in my desk job now for seven years, it's caught up with me. My big casts are getting shorter each year here lately. I think I need more technique to hit it out there farther.
> 
> ...



The heavier the weight and the earlier you power into it, the more likely you are to experience thumb slip-- and it is much worse if fishing as the line is wet.

The vast majority of distance casters use some type of aid on the thumb -- I use the inner tube myself. Some try to get buy with a bare thumb, I think this is problematic as the hands and fingers naturally contain oils that will add to the slipping problem. 

One reason many use the reel in low position is because it generally makes for it easier to grip when you are pulling the reel into you as opposed to pushing it away from you with the top hand.

That being said there are still a few tournament casters that use high reel and get good results.


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

Don't let the DISTANCE HYPE get to ya, for fishing 300' will fill the need 99% of the time,,, and under fishing conditions on a beach or pier with other folks around you want to throw a over head or high Hatteras cast,,, trust me if your on a beach or pier and you start swinging a lead like a merry-go-round you will not make any friends and it could get worse,,, saw one guy throw a swingy loop off the pier one day and was told if he did it again he would be tossed over board next.

So for bait fishing 300' is fine,,, trust me I fish with some monsters and not many are throwing over that for fishing.

Jeremiahm, as Mark said,,, if the spool is slipping your putting to much power into it to soon,, it's like stomping on the gas from a dead stop, more than likely your tires will just spin,,, start slow and build up speed and hit it at the end.


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