# Spinning vs. Casting??



## steve grossman (Feb 1, 2008)

Under ANY circumstance, can a person outcast with a spinning reel?? I say no way. What do the experts say:


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

With modern spool design and braided line, absolutely. IMHO casting with weights up to around 3oz the spinner performance is equal to or superior to casting reels. Above 3oz, again IMHO, the casting reel starts to pull even and on the heavier weights is superior.

There are guys out there that can flat cast the heck out of spinners, even with the heavy stuff.

Tommy


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## SALTSHAKER (Dec 5, 2002)

Yup... one comes to mind it Mr Mark Edwards... 758', think thats right... hell of a toss....


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

or casters with that argentinian reel

escualo bota? or something like that.
custom spool, HUGE diameter, and like a 45deg taper.

thing looks wiCKKED.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

I think that day-in-day-out, night-in-night-out, week to week, month to month a guy throwing an engineered for distance spinner set-up will be able to put out longer on average casts and enjoy more trouble free fishing than a guy using a conventional.

For me, that goes for the larger (6 -10) weights as well.

On a bluebird day and given three casts maybe a conventional guy can beat a spinner guy. Be out there every day in all types of weather and average the casts (with *every* attempt counting, backlashes, birdsnests, windknots marked where the sinker lands) and I think the spinner will crush the conventional.

Smell that?

C-A-S-T-A-M-U-C-K!!!!!    opcorn:


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

ooeric said:


> or casters with that argentinian reel
> 
> escualo bota? or something like that.
> custom spool, HUGE diameter, and like a 45deg taper.
> ...



View attachment 783


Yes it does but it would not be legal in Sportcast tournaments nor would it be a good fishing reel (no drag).


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## Andre (Mar 15, 2003)

That's one mean looking reel...
What's the price on that reel ?


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## kingfish (Feb 28, 2004)

I think that day-in-day-out, night-in-night-out, week to week, month to month a guy throwing a conventional will produce longer on average casts and enjoy more trouble free fishing than a guy using an engineered for distance spinner set-up.

However the small line and smaller weight up to 3 oz. is better with the spinner. Still you have to sacrifice some additional weight on the reel, and the inevitable line twist. I do not care for the way braid fishes, just my choice.

A guy that can handle a conventional reel will have fewer problems and cast farther on average with better drag, line capicity, and less weight on the reel, and if it is an ABU it's gonna look pretty doing it, plus that same guy can go home and clean it regularly to keep it shiny.

can you smell that smellopcorn:


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

Andre said:


> That's one mean looking reel...
> What's the price on that reel ?


To me it looks like an off the shelf body, the spool and the rotor / roller assembly are custom. 

Here go some more pics . . . 

View attachment 784


View attachment 785


View attachment 786


View attachment 787


This is the top level of fishing spinner available today, the Daiwa Tournament Surf Basia.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

kingfish said:


> I think that day-in-day-out, night-in-night-out, week to week, month to month a guy throwing a conventional will produce longer on average casts and enjoy more trouble free fishing than a guy using an engineered for distance spinner set-up.


And what might you be basing that on? I cast both spinners and conventionals and I know what real the deal is. I own and use Abu's but my favorite is my old Newell235 and my new Daiwa Millionare Tournament 7HT MAG (see *my picture gallery* for pics). And more importantly, I'm constantly casting fishing rigs on a measured field and refining their construction; I know what I can do with every type of rig I tie and with whatever bait I use.

For me, under _*great *_conditions a 500ft cast with 6 ounces and a small chunk on a clip-down is an razors edge, almost losing control affair with a tuned for fishing conventional mounted high reel on a fishing rod . . . With my spinner it's an all day, no problem, great old time. 

For practical fishing applications the spinner is the winner, hands down!

When is the last time you played around with a spinner and what was the model and rod because it sounds like you are basing your opinions on a Penn 750 on an UglyStik.



kingfish said:


> A guy that can handle a conventional reel will have fewer problems and cast farther on average with better drag, line capicity, and less weight on the reel,


Now I know you are not talking from experience. To match the drag on these new reels a conventional guy would need to fish with an 80lb class lever drag trolling reel. The Basia will hold nearly 500 yards of 20lb braid and weighs 17 ounces. So there, you got me by 3 ounces but with 33lbs of drag I could spool you after towing you and your abu all over the beach . If I used my S6000T I'd be giving up 7 ounces for 500+ yards of 30lb and have 66lbs of drag.



kingfish said:


> and if it is an ABU it's gonna look pretty doing it


I'm gonna have to leave the lookin purty part to you, that's the last thing I'm concerned with. Although I will admit the ladies sure do like the Basia! It is like fishing with a Lamborghini. It must be that loooooooooong in and out stroke they find so appealing :redface:. 

View attachment 788




kingfish said:


> can you smell that smellopcorn:


See you in Berryville


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## kingfish (Feb 28, 2004)

Well sarge i thought we were talking about your regular guy out here fishing day in and day out. Didn't really want to challenge you, but i aint scared.

Built me a spinner back in 78 on a 13 foot honey lami, pretty wippy it was, but i could beat almost everyone with any kind of reel then. To keep it in context though, that was anybody on the Cherry Grove peir. Pretty much the total of my world then. Those were some fine times. I was using a daiwa 7000, it was sweet and heavy.

Ok, ur fancy reels cost hundreds and hundreds of dollars and you can pick up 3 or more, abu's or penn 125's or daiwa slosh, or etc. for the price of one of the specialty reels you speak of.

Now i said i don't care for braid, i just don't like the herky jerky feel of a fish on it. It has some benifits but it aint for me. Get you some thirty pound and up mono and i'll make u wish u stayed home with that spinner, while i use the same on a conventional. The ABU pretty comment was for Toejam, he always throws that in, and he's a friend, but hey, they are pretty. 

Right now i carry a spinner to the beach with me every time. It is a daiwa ss 1300 on a rainshadow su1264, with 8 # suffix. Great for 2 ozs. Fun to catch a fish on also. It is kinda important for me to enjoy the fish catching experience, so i suit my tackle to that. I still have to change the line three times as often because of line twist.

And i can tell you something else, the scenery is good in Myrtle Beach, while surfishing. I won't see you in Berryville, but please look me up if you ever get down to the area. You are probably right about the regular guy, he can't cut it.


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

Man that question is so loaded it would be like asking Could I beat Tommy and Sgt Slough in casting,,, sure if they didn't show up 

Ya might want to narrow the fields of the question.


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

In my best ring announcer voice...  (all in fun)

In the Grey corner weighting in at 175 lbs is the famous (or infamous) Little River SC Pompano catchin, Kingfish slaying, longcaster extrordinaire Mr Wayne "Kingfish" Hill....

And in the Blue corner weighting in at considerably more than that (  ) is the spinning reel casting, striped bass hunting, groundcaster from New Jersey, Rod "Sargent Slough" Smith.....

Man I wish you could both make Berryville.... 

Tommy


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

lol lololol hey sarge, how is that 7ht mag.
ive played around with a 7ht turbo and it was nice.

has does the magforce on that play with your distance?

but even though i cast winches like abus penns daiwas, sarge is *100% right*.

spinners are and will ALWAYS be easier to cast and handle in ANY condition.

the modern day surf spinners or boat spinners, can outclass any reel up to a 50class boat reel.

take a look at the shimmy stellas... 40 50 60 lb drags. and dont forget, shimmy has surf reels that do 30 40lbs easily too. like the spinpower aeros

basia and the powersurf/tidesurf line all does 25lb +

IMO again;
in good conditions, using mono on both reels. (im not gonna talk about braid)
a winch would beat a spinner throwing 4oz + while a spinner would beat the winch 4oz down.
i find it easier to throw heavy weights+ bait on winches or throw soft baits.


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## kingfish (Feb 28, 2004)

Tommy said:


> In my best ring announcer voice...  (all in fun)
> 
> In the Grey corner weighting in at 175 lbs is the famous (or infamous) Little River SC Pompano catchin, Kingfish slaying, longcaster extrordinaire Mr Wayne "Kingfish" Hill....
> 
> ...


That is more in line with my true stance on the matter, all in fun. Who among us hasn't watched the k-mart special drag fish in while we were waaaaay out there.


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## Danman (Dec 13, 2007)

OK...now for an average experience caster..what type of yardage difference are we talking..lets say...spinning vs conventional...throwing a 5 oz with bait....on the surf.....wind from your back to the ocean??:fishing:


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## smartie (May 6, 2008)

I have an Argentine Reel now coupled with a Daiwa Ballistic Rod.

For me the F/S reel is much better for long range casting over grass, I just cannot get the release right with a multiplier reel but I do manage 600ft easily with one.

Another thing which springs to mind is that most U.K. long casters use a multiplier reel mounted low on the rod, this has distance advantages and rod balance advantages. a F/S reel mounted like this would soon have the knuckles skinned.

It is not the weight size big or little that acts to equalise the two types of reel it is the line diameter. Unless the line on a F/S reel is significantly less than that on a multi then the multi will always shine for distance.

These observations are purely for casting over grass here in the U.K. where casts of 600ft are small potatoes and hardly considered worth measuring even on a 50grm weight.

Also why would my Argentine reel be considered "illegal" for casting in the USA?????? It CAN be fished with.


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## RockhopperUK (Jul 13, 2005)

Neil Mackellow used to cast a fixed spool reel in the low position (over grass) I'm sure a few more guys did too.

Tom.


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## Black Beard (Jan 25, 2001)

Yes I did Tom, my best cast was around 710ft on 0.35mm mono.

*******************************

These are the results from a UKSF event in 1982, the year after I started casting competitively. Distances rounded up/down to nearest whole number.

You got 4 casts in the morning with a spinner and 4 in the afternoon with a multiplier/conventional. Distances in feet.

Paul Kerry Spinner 687 Multiplier 738

Neil Mackellow 669 726

Les Baldry 669 720

Mark Gooch 651 678

Do ya see a bit of a pattern emerging here?

All these distances were with 0.35mm mono, the standard at the time.

Bottom line, a good spinner and a good conventional are on par up to around 525ft. After that the conventional takes over.

I have done enough comparisons using some of the best casters there are over the years and every time the conventional takes over once the distances start increasing.

Yes, you could use light braid, but even on the light line events in the UK you will rarely see a spinner at a tournament. And there is only one reason for that, they don’t cast as far as a conventional.

Just as a matter of interest, in 1983 I broke the UK record for a 2oz weight on 0.25mm mono with a cast of 669ft. I used a bog standard Abu 6500!

BB


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## mud (Sep 23, 2007)

Thanks for the input Neil. I have to agree totally with your statement. I use conventional on grass, surf and pier and spinners with braid on my boat. IMO spinners are great up to a certain distance then a good conventional will out perform it all day. I outcast the experienced spinner guys with expensive set ups in the wind time after time with no blow ups. IMO each has its place and time (spinners and conventionals) and think its about time someone came up with a new reel design and ill have fun learning how to cast it too!


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## smartie (May 6, 2008)

Didn't Paul Kerry cast high reel?

and didn't BB Les and Mark use the Backcast for F/S. not a casting style associated with high reel.


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## Black Beard (Jan 25, 2001)

smartie said:


> Didn't Paul Kerry cast high reel?
> 
> and didn't BB Les and Mark use the Backcast for F/S. not a casting style associated with high reel.


Les rarely use one while I toyed with the backcast and did well early on, but in the end it was too unwieldy for me.

Perfected a low reel pendulum and never looked back.

Yes, PK used a high reel all the time I cast against him.


Good to see discussion is still here!

I have made 12 return flights this year since February so had little time for the WWW, good to be back!

BB


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Welcome back Neil!!

Are you going to attend the Big Danny?? Kim and I will be there, hope to see you.

Tommy


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## Black Beard (Jan 25, 2001)

Hey Tommy

Good to be back!

Not sure about the BD, have a heap of commitments around that time.

Will see how things go.

Best to you both

Neil


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## smartie (May 6, 2008)

Neil are you going to Greece, I regret I cannot go this year. 
So I won't be able to retain my F/S Cup.

regards
Dave.


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## LarryB (Apr 29, 2002)

Steve, you've certainly gotten some great comments on this subject. Based upon how you've asked the question the answer depends on the skill of the individual but lets take a look at the top extreme. Tommy mentioned Big Danny and as we all know he is currently the best with a convential reel and may also be the best with a spinner. Danny has cast a spinner over 800ft and holds the world record with a convential reel casting over 900ft. Granted that Neil and Danny are not your average distance casters but I think the similarity with Neil's post shows both the capabilities and limitations of both typs of reels in the hands of those that can flat out get the maximum out of each. Currently the convential reels have made the point on the field but I think that Sgt Slough might say that if Danny had been casting with a Daiwa Basia that he would be over 900ft also. Maybe a nice experiment for Big Danny's tournament.

LarryB


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## terpfan (May 30, 2002)

i think the point is conventional will outcast spinning reel, everything being equal using mono. however, i really believe spinning reel with 17lb braid will outcast conventional reel with 17lb mono.


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## WestCoastMike (Nov 7, 2007)

All I can add is my dad will open a big can of whip ass on your dad and my mac is better than your pc ----


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

seems more then 1 pro has joined this discussion.

anyways, BB has the new job at greys coming along??

are we gonna see some new killer rods coming soon?


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## Rob S (Feb 7, 2008)

I offer a solution to this madness.


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## Black Beard (Jan 25, 2001)

smartie said:


> Neil are you going to Greece, I regret I cannot go this year.
> So I won't be able to retain my F/S Cup.
> 
> regards
> Dave.


Hi Dave

Off to Saloniki on Friday

Sorry you cannot make it this year

Neil


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## smartie (May 6, 2008)

Pigs Knuckles and the very best of luck Niel


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## Black Beard (Jan 25, 2001)

Oh Yeah!

Knuckles on the menu!


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## Black Beard (Jan 25, 2001)

ooeric said:


> seems more then 1 pro has joined this discussion.
> 
> anyways, BB has the new job at greys coming along??
> 
> are we gonna see some new killer rods coming soon?


Going good with Greys thanks, they have a great deal of experience with rods - since 1820 - and a killer test rig!

Plenty of stuff in the melting pot.

Working from home with a couple of trips up a month, once the house is sold we will be moving up there - 450 miles north!!!

BB


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## Danman (Dec 13, 2007)

This is what I love about this forum...RobS 's reply and photo..lol... It's just a matter of time before I buy a conventional setup so I can add my two to five cents to this forum...Keep going guys on your distance casting!:fishing:


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

terpfan said:


> i think the point is conventional will outcast spinning reel, everything being equal using mono. however, i really believe spinning reel with 17lb braid will outcast conventional reel with 17lb mono.


And a conventional abu reel with 8lb mono line will outcast one with 17lb mono.

All your comparison really says is thinner line will cast further than thicker line - a fairly obvious statement.

You have to talk line diameter- not pound test strength- which is why the casting rules call for limits on line diameter- not lb test strength.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

kingfish said:


> Well sarge i thought we were talking about your regular guy out here fishing day in and day out..


That's exactly what I am talking about; the regular guy out fishing. I'm not talking about the guy with a WallyWorld set-up or a vintage fiberglass Fenwick and a Penn 704 greenie and I'm not talking about tournament casting gear . . . 

I'm talking about the guys that post on this board who are serious about attaining their maximum *fishing* distance; they have one or two rods of modern, high modulus graphite with a performance action and decent hardware at the bottom of the rod. I would say on average $500 set-ups. 

I'm talking about a guy that would rather fish than play with bearings and magnets and buying one pound spools of line year after year chasing that magical 150 yards. With an engineered for distance spinner set-up and some real casting practice without worrying about being super smooth and blowing up, that regular guy can get to that 150 and do it over and over and over and over. 



kingfish said:


> Ok, ur fancy reels cost hundreds and hundreds of dollars and you can pick up 3 or more, abu's or penn 125's or daiwa slosh, or etc. for the price of one of the specialty reels you speak of.


True, what I have acquired is the top of the top of the line, but the original question was:


> *Under ANY circumstance, can a person outcast with a spinning reel?? I say no way. . . . *



And I answered in that vein from experience, not arrogance or ego or internet casting muscles. I am sure of it because I do it a lot and I'm nowhere near a top line caster. 

With my off the shelf HDX ($229) with the fishing butt and a Shimano Power Aero ($225), .28 line and an OTG cast I just marked a personal best (in comp) 655ft cast with the 125g in last months Sportcast tournament. 

That was done with a *FISHING* rod and a *FISHING* reel. The only thing I would do if I was going to go fish with that set-up right after the tourney is respool with 20lb braid running line. That change would net me a 5% - 7% *INCREASE* in distance. That's my point!

*Thought experiment time! * 

Can a conventional caster who just threw 680 and beat me by 25 feet on the court with his _tournament_ set up -- go grab his *FISHING* set-up and throw it just as far, let alone beat me if I'm now out past 680 with braid? 

If the answer is _no_, then I am correct.

I'm not saying there's nobody who can beat me, there's only one man who can do that and he's in Belgium. But _dayyyummm_, for *fishing* let's relegate the old rule that conventionals *always* out cast spinners to the status it deserves . . . just an old wives tale . . .


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

Sgt_Slough said:


> That's exactly what I am talking about; the regular guy out fishing. I'm not talking about the guy with a WallyWorld set-up or a vintage fiberglass Fenwick and a Penn 704 greenie and I'm not talking about tournament casting gear . . .
> 
> I'm talking about the guys that post on this board who are serious about attaining their maximum *fishing* distance; they have one or two rods of modern, high modulus graphite with a performance action and decent hardware at the bottom of the rod. I would say on average $500 set-ups.
> 
> ...


well sarge,, there are rods that double duty
like the komp s/ss or carbonmetals or primos
they are all fishing rods, yet all throw 250yards+

buT BUT.. $$$ is the problem. your hdx is alot of quids cheaper. so its basically a bargain what you can do with your gear =D


PS- are you gonna part with the 7ht mag yet? ill be waiting in line xD


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

It really boils down to what you like and what you are most comfortable casting. 

For YEARS ('85-'98) I was a die hard spinner guy. My brother tried and tried to get me to switch to the dark side and finally i did. Took a little work but I came to _love_ casting reels and all the tinkering that comes with them. I guess for me, the sweeeeeet sound of an abu screaming at 20,000 rpm is one of life's pleasures..... 

For me, casting reels do throw farther using 3oz or so and up. For others the spinner may prove better. It is really about using what you like and enjoying that precious time spent fishing or casting.

Tommy

ps, I've done 750+ with the HDX and a tweaked 6500.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

Tommy's 100% right. It really boils down to what you like.. The funny thing is reading what you guys call AVERAGE equipment. For most surf guys I know a $230 (hdx), and a $250(Shimano ) isn't average.. LOL At the Old Inlet Turnament last week I had people walking up to me askng me what type of reel I was using (penn 525 knobby ). On these boards it easy to get fooled into thinking our tackle ho addiction is normal, but in the real work a $500 set up is somewhat extreme.. 




Tommy said:


> It really boils down to what you like and what you are most comfortable casting.
> 
> For YEARS ('85-'98) I was a die hard spinner guy. My brother tried and tried to get me to switch to the dark side and finally i did. Took a little work but I came to _love_ casting reels and all the tinkering that comes with them. I guess for me, the sweeeeeet sound of an abu screaming at 20,000 rpm is one of life's pleasures.....
> 
> ...


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

Tommy said:


> In my best ring announcer voice...  (all in fun)


And you know where I'm coming from Tommy, these threads are just too enticing to not stir the pot.




















Tommy said:


> Man I wish you could both make Berryville....


I'll be there with bells on. An added plus is the knee is doing much better.


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## Jamcaster (Oct 14, 2000)

If I am not mistaken Sgt Slough hasnt Mark Edwards cast over 700ft with spinning gear at a SCUSA tounament.And doesnt he use the same rod and reel to fish with?


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

steve grossman said:


> Under ANY circumstance, can a person outcast with a spinning reel?? I say no way. What do the experts say:


personally, I think the question is a little too vague.

An accomplished caster who only (or even mostly) throws spinning gear is going to cast better with spinning gear than *he* is going to do with casting gear.

And there are many accomplished spinning casters that are going to out cast me all day with me casting my conventional gear. On the other hand I will likely never be able to cast spinning gear with heavy leads anywhere near the distances I achieve with conventional gear. 

Which is only agreeing with what has already been said- it boils down to what the individual is comfortable with.

THe question can be rehrased to ask , what gear is currently used to cast the best distances by the best casters- the answer is overwhelmingly conventional gear. 

THat only begs the question- if the guys using conventional gear put in the exact same amount of practice with spinning gear, would the spinning gear out produce the conventional gear.

Again that question seems to have been answered- spinning gear seems to enjoy an advantage with lighter weights, with conventional gear pulling ahead when it comes to increasing the weight thrown.

This has been my experience as well and I will continue to use spinning gear with light weight (3 oz and under)set ups and conventional gear for heavier heaver type work.

So to be point blank- yes there are *some* circumstances (lighter weights for most everyone) and whichever set up the person is more comfortable with when it comes to heavier weights, in which the spinning gear will outperform.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

This question seems to come up every year. I say instead of worrying about which one is better pick the one you want, and put time in perfecting you cast. I know a couple guys with those Basia's. They are very nice, but most of them cant cast any futher than I can with a $100 abu. What im basically trying to say is pick what you like, and learn how to use it.. 

BTW.. I must say I have fished with Sarge twice, and he's the real deal.. But if he loved convential as much as I love them he would be equally good (GREAT)in both..


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