# Question about spiral wrapping an OM 12' Heavy



## Ichabod (Sep 5, 2010)

How practical would it be to take an OM 12' rod and wrap it spirally. My thought process was since there are no guides on the butt section of this rod all that would be required would be to layout the spiral on the butt and rotate the top over. Please critique this idea. Thanks in advance for any assistance given. Chris.


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## Charlie2 (May 2, 2007)

I have successfully spiral wrapped long surf rods when it was said that it couldn't be done.

First; find the flex point. Place your first running guide there with same sized guides to the tip.

Go back and spiral from the reel to that point.

I use the O'Quinn (slow spiral) method which I find is more suited for casting. C2


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## Ichabod (Sep 5, 2010)

Thanks a bunch for the info. Chris.


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## Ichabod (Sep 5, 2010)

Charlie, I just tried to PM you but your box is full. Chris.


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## Charlie2 (May 2, 2007)

Ichabod said:


> Charlie, I just tried to PM you but your box is full. Chris.


They keep telling me this, but dummy me; don't know how to access it. Sorry! C2

EDIT: I took care of that! Fire away! C2


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## Charlie2 (May 2, 2007)

PM sent! C2


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## Charlie2 (May 2, 2007)

What happened? Did you try it? C2


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## Ichabod (Sep 5, 2010)

Not yet. I am still trying to get my ducks in a row. So many things to consider. Wow!! Guides, thread size, etc. Hopefully in the very near future I will go forth. I do have yet another question for you. How important is having all the running guides the same size? The first two guides up from the ferrule are slightly larger than the remaining guides? I was hoping to only have to wrap new guides onto the butt section because this is my first adventure into rod wrapping and didn't want to run the risk of messing up the rod by removing and replacing guides on the existing rod. Thanks again for all of your help. Chris.


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## sunburntspike (Oct 4, 2010)

as long as yer knot passes thru the guides,they are large enuf.i would build starting with a 20,then at 60* another 20,and a 16 at 240*,then i would tweek it as neccessary to get the transition smooth,the rest of the guides can be the same all the way,12s maybe.these are just suggestions flying blind as every rod is a bit different,but this and what C2 mentioned will get you close


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## Ichabod (Sep 5, 2010)

Ok. Thanks for the input. So it is feasible that I can turn my OM heaver into a spiral rod by having to wrap guides on the butt section. Does this sound right?


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## Ichabod (Sep 5, 2010)

I'm planning to put the first guide slightly (only a few degrees) left of center. My thought is this will bias the laying of the line (when retrieving) into my thumb thus requiring only pushing with the thumb to lay the line back across the reel. Sort of like automatically laying the line towards the side of the offset guide. Does this make sense?


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## sunburntspike (Oct 4, 2010)

Ichabod said:


> I'm planning to put the first guide slightly (only a few degrees) left of center. My thought is this will bias the laying of the line (when retrieving) into my thumb thus requiring only pushing with the thumb to lay the line back across the reel. Sort of like automatically laying the line towards the side of the offset guide. Does this make sense?


seen guys do this and if it works for you get 'er done.


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

Ichabod said:


> I'm planning to put the first guide slightly (only a few degrees) left of center. My thought is this will bias the laying of the line (when retrieving) into my thumb thus requiring only pushing with the thumb to lay the line back across the reel. Sort of like automatically laying the line towards the side of the offset guide. Does this make sense?


Tape it up the way you are thinking, then fish it. Adjust as necessary. Then wrap. Nothing can beat real world experience as to where you will want that first guide it you are using it like that to help level the line. But, you may find that you will end up using your thumb still to pull it so you can precisely control how the line is laid back on your entire spool.


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## Ichabod (Sep 5, 2010)

Now that's a heck of an idea. Thanks.


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## Charlie2 (May 2, 2007)

My stripper guide is at -5 degrees (right spiral). IMHO, it makes the spooling of the line work better. This was determined by experimentation during my 'development' stage.

Yes; you can turn the tip over to make a spiral. I do it often just to demonstrate what the same rod feels like with spiraled guides vs conventional(on top). It's not hard to convince one of the virtues of a spiral wrap doing it this way.

I tape the transition guides in place when doing this. I usually wind up stripping the old butt guides off then wrapping the same guides on a la spiral. 

Don't be afraid to experiment or ask questions. We all learn that way.

I learned what I know by doing just this. C2


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## Ichabod (Sep 5, 2010)

Thanks again. Should have some "test results soon" if it stops raining.


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## Ichabod (Sep 5, 2010)

Ok a little progress. Found the 0 and180 degree points on the rod. Wow that was a challenge. In found a Fuji N guide that was a size 25 and taped it on as the first running guide. So I now have another question. The first guide on the upper section of rod is a size 30 Fuji and is therefore taller than the first running guide (which is on the bottom section). It seems that these need to be the same size. What are y'all's thoughts? Thanks. Chris.


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## Charlie2 (May 2, 2007)

Don't get too hung up on guide sizes. Kinzo Yamamoto used some weird guide size combinations on his 'High-Leverage' rods.

First go to acidrods.com and cut out the angle wheel. Cut a hole in the middle and a slit in one side. Laminate it for further use. It makes life a bit easier.

The first running guide is on the 'flex point. This point may be on either section of the rod.

I use the smallest guide size that will pass knots from this flex point to the tip. Space these guides either equidistant or progressive. It's your call!

Back to the Transition guides: These can be larger than the running guides. I usually 'progress' them in size and use 4 guides(O'Quinn). If you're going to cast I recommend the O'Quinn(slow spiral) method.

Place a rod blank through the transition guides from the butt guide to the first running guide and position the guides to provide a straight line path.

Tape the guides on, then test cast. Tweak as necessary. C2


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## Ichabod (Sep 5, 2010)

I did a few casts early this morning with the top section rotated 180 degrees and the lone running guide (which is also in the 180 deg position) on the top of the butt section. So the line leaves the reel "spirals" around the rod and enters the first running guide. What I learned: no difference in line flow when casting, didn't notice any appreciable hindrance to distance, and when backcasting there was much less appreciable torque on the rod. Now mind you, this was only a handful of casts done at 75% effort (at the most) using 10oz pyramid with an old "tricked out" Penn 209 (b/c its closest in size to the yet to be delivered Avet). 

C2, when you say 'progress' them in size, do you mean that you increase them in size as you go from the reel towards the tip?

From everything I have read, it seems that a minimum I need a motorized dryer for this project. Do you agree? Is one RPM better than another? I have seen 9rpm, 18rpm, 30rpm.

Thanks again. Chris.


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## sunburntspike (Oct 4, 2010)

Ichabod said:


> I did a few casts early this morning with the top section rotated 180 degrees and the lone running guide (which is also in the 180 deg position) on the top of the butt section. So the line leaves the reel "spirals" around the rod and enters the first running guide. What I learned: no difference in line flow when casting, didn't notice any appreciable hindrance to distance, and when backcasting there was much less appreciable torque on the rod. Now mind you, this was only a handful of casts done at 75% effort (at the most) using 10oz pyramid with an old "tricked out" Penn 209 (b/c its closest in size to the yet to be delivered Avet).
> 
> C2, when you say 'progress' them in size, do you mean that you increase them in size as you go from the reel towards the tip?
> 
> ...


decrease from reel to tip,i just don't think C2 was being clear.motor rpm is gonna be a personal prefrence,i use a amtak 9rpm.as long as the rod is rotating and not slinging epoxy off,and it is at a working speed for you any of the rpms are good.


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## Ichabod (Sep 5, 2010)

Thanks Sunburntspike. There are four sequential guides that I'm asking about.
#1- The first guide in front of the reel, 
#2- The next guide up from #1 (i think this is called a transition guide), 
#3- The next guide up from #2 (another transition guide) and 
#4- The next guide up from #3 which is the first running guide. 

Currently I have a size 25 fuji as the #4 above. This is actually shorter than the second running guide (which is on the upper section of this 2-pc rod). With this configuration the fishing line is only touching the first running guide and the third running guide. So my thought is to change the first running guide to a size 30 in hopes of obtaining a more consistent contact with the fishing line. My question came after I got to looking at how the line was running from the reel to the first running guide. It seems that if I used smaller guides in the transition area the path of the line would be closer to linear. I think this is kinda what you recommended earlier. My situation is being kinda dictated by the fact that the first running guide on the top section of the rod is a size 30. So I'm trying to work backwards from that. I can't see where anything detrimental would happen by using smaller than size 30 guides for the first three guides. Sorry to be so long winded but I am afflicted with the curse overthink-ism.


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## Charlie2 (May 2, 2007)

I apologize for the confusion. I mean that the guide nearest the reel is large(16-20) then gradually DECREASE in size towards the first running guide. The running guides are all of the same size.

You won't notice any great difference in casting. I couldn't get good casting from either a Simple, or Roberts(5 guides in 8 inches) but can with a slow or O'Quinn spiral.

It eliminates rod torque, or twist, when pulling on a big fish. Less tiring when making multiple casts over a day. C2


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## Ichabod (Sep 5, 2010)

Guides and thread have arrived. WoooHooooo!


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## Ichabod (Sep 5, 2010)

Let the questions begin. 
1. Recommended distance from reel seat to first guide?
2. What distance from first guide to first running guide? Or what is the distance within which to accomplish the spiral?

My current limitation is the farthest (from reel seat) I can put the first running guide is 30.5". When I taped the first guide at 20" it created a fairly sharp angle of transition around the rod.

Chris


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## Ichabod (Sep 5, 2010)

Progress!! After taping and retaping numerous different configurations I think I'm finally close. Due to space constraints I used three guides to get from the reel to the first running guide. A size 20 butt guide which is offset a bit towards the spiral and two size 16 guides carry the spiral around to the first 180 guide. Only got to cast this configuration twice but there were no issues. In fact, using a penn 209 (levelwind removed) and a 10oz pyramid I almost hit the 110yd mark in the corn field in front of my house. That is definitely sufficient for my intended usage. Now I get to struggle with wrapping this up. Thanks to all for your help.


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

Glad you got it figured out. Make sure you post pics upon completion.


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## Ichabod (Sep 5, 2010)

Sure thing, as long as y'all don't laugh.


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## Charlie2 (May 2, 2007)

Go ahead and post the pics. I do not laugh at a person's efforts.

Spirals are the way to go. I haven't wrapped a conventional guides-on-top rod for several years now. C2


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## Ichabod (Sep 5, 2010)

Finished the rod today. Ended up wrapping the ferrule on the top section and three guides on the bottom section. This was a pretty neat undertaking. It actually turned out much better than I expected. Gonna fish the hound out of it REAL soon. Thanks to everyone for all of the help. Chris.


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

Great news!


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