# "Better reel" for longer casts?



## tufnik (Sep 11, 2011)

Although most of my surf fishing has been with spinners, I also use a number conv reels. Includes Slosh, Abu 6500, Avet SXJ, and most recent Fathom II 15SD. I also use 9 - 12' surf rods.

I need to make long casts on some fishing trips, so I'm thinking maybe I need the right/better reels. I've been looking at long-cast spinners as well as conv reels like the Seigler SM.

Anyway, am wondering if it's worth it. Can I really cast much farther? I'm 5'8", 140 lbs. Perhaps I really don't have the strength/power to take full advantage of "long-casting reels," even if I have good casting technique.

Or use what I have, and maybe (I really don't want to) use a drone to fly the bait out there.


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

It's all about technique, the rod, the line, then the reel. You already have excellent distance reels, you just need to know how to use them to your distance advantage and that will always start with a good casting technique.

Using the tackle yer currently employing, what kind of fishing distance are you achieving?

What kind of main line are you currently using, and do you us a shock leader?

How far a casting distance do you require? 

What total payload weights are you casting? 

If it's weight and bait, what kind of rigs are you using? 

What kind of casts are you employing?


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## pcbtightlines (Aug 9, 2020)

good reminders


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Get better longer rods. You might have to hide these purchases from your accountant as they do not come cheap. Your last reel is the same as many distance casters fishing the OBX, so it is not the reel which is holding you back.

Fathom 15 is actually easier to throw than the Seigler which sits higher on your reel seat and makes it a little more difficult to clamp down on, especially if you have smaller paws The Seigler also has a more obtrusive sideplate that is in the way for me anyway. Seigler seems to have taken a pause on new SM's, I am looking for a new one and they do not seem to be making them. I could text the Seigler Rep but he is busy on Avon Pier trying not to get smoked by DrumPro GolfPro.

Rods I can recommend because I have used them and been around them.

CTS 1305 13' with the long tip not the 50/50. 

Century C Curve 13' 10"

Century C Curve is the easiest long rod to load for me anyway. it is a slow action and some of the furthest casts I have ever made with a Drum bait were made using this rod and a Seigler SM. I tried out every single Distance Rod Century made a few years back and went fishing with them. C Curve was the best for throwing 7 ounces and bait. At the time Century had not yet released the Tip Tornado Sport Graphex model which is next on my list of have to haves.

Practice is key, after 50,000 casts or so you will be bombing it out there.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Richard Holgate Beach Pendulum

Follow these motions and you will be on your way. I had a practice a while but it is an awesome simple cast for fishing.


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

A new rod most likely isn't needed. 

Help with a better casting technique and tackle setup would help the OP lots better, IMHO.


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)




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## tufnik (Sep 11, 2011)

Cool, thanks for a lot of good info from you experienced casters!

I think I got your points. For whatever distance needed, there's room for "optimizing" current equipment and technique before buying a new "longer casting reel."

Assuming everything is about the same for two persons, that is, each has the right braid, reel, rod, shock leader, best technique, etc., I guess the answer may be obvious. A stronger person will likely cast farther. Give both persons better reels, and again, the stronger caster would throw farther.

So, for my physical size, I guess I need to work on optimizing my equipment/tackle and technique (with tons of practice) first, and see if that satisfies my casting distance needs.

Aha, but if I fail to fully optimize, maybe I can compensate for that by gaining more distance via the purchase of a new well-reviewed, I-really-just-want-a-new-one, cool, and shiny reel...lol.


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

Whilst there ARE differences between grass and water casting, lots of things - casting technique and tackle - are reasonably similar.

The above video will be well worth the hour long listen - John clearly explains it all, and you will see that there is no need to change your current rod and reel ... however, there may be other tackle setup things to consider.


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## Benji (Nov 19, 2014)

Clean the grease off the bearings on the fathom2, oil them, let it rip.


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

Some suggestions to the OP ....

The Fathom II 15 has mag braking - use it to yer advantage.

Remove the spool bearings and soak them in naphtha (lighter fluid) to dissolve any grease/oil. Let the solvent evaporate. What will be left is trace of petroleum that will be fine for the bearing "lube". 

Load the spool with quality mono and stay about 1/8" away from the spool's edge. Add a mono shock leader with a uni knot and run it around the spool at least 4 times while still having at least a half rod length drop of the payload off the rod tip. Rod payload ratings are typically not all that accurate. Accumulate sinkers in various weights that relate to the rod's listed rating and start casting. If the rating is 2-6 ounces, start at 2 and go up an ounce at a time.

All of the above is fine 'n' dandy but will be of little to no use at all until your casting technique is reasonably solidified. I would strongly suggest starting off with John Holden's simple and easy OTG cast and progress from there. Even without doing anything at all to yer reel or line or payload, proper casting technique will more than likely be an eye opener all by itself.


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## tufnik (Sep 11, 2011)

Don't think I ever really saw JH videos. Saw several others, but I never really studied them. JH's approach (principles, relax, flow, etc.) seems so comforting and reassuring. He looks so relaxed without really trying so hard during casting. It's telling me I can cast farther. As JH said, the harder you try, the more frustration and the worst it becomes (backlashes, less distance).....lol...that's me. Am motivated; going to try and apply his technique.


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

If you've been "thump" casting for decades, yer brain will be the biggest roadblock to good casting form. Don't overthink. Do dry practicing in yer house with a short stick to ingrain good technique into muscle memory and counteract old and bad casting habits.


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## Thorhammer (9 mo ago)

I want CT cages for my 940's!!!!! Where'd that come from....

OP- agree everything above. You have really good reels; ya might get a CT bar or Rocket cage / mag plate for your Abu just to have three distance reels. Can't speak to the Avet but I've see guys sling em. Get your technique in place then spend money on your rod. Suggest you try some if possible- don't worry about your strength level, look at where you are fishing and make sure you get the right rod length / power for YOU. No point in getting a 13' rod if your mechanics and a beach lip behind you won't let you throw as well as you might control a 12'. JMO.


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

I think there's way too much emphasis on reels. The rod is most important, then comes the line, reel is last. Setup the reel with mono and add in a shock leader. A decent caster can take any Sweden Abu, disengage the level wind guide and large sprocket in the offside end plate, leave everything else box stock, and with decent casting technique it'll go well over 100 yards easy peasy. An Abu with 15lbs drag will do just fine in the surf for most species in the 40-50lb range ... or larger.


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## Matt Bizarro (Jan 26, 2016)

Come out to a CSCA tournament this Spring. At least half the guys there are surf fisherman using the same tackle you do.


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

No matter what, all the tackle will be second to casting technique when distance really matters to reach where the fish are feeding. 

Doesn't mean just any tackle will do, but tackle follows technique.


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

For the Abu Sweden reels, the 5500's and 6500's, a Rocket Reels mono mag end plate (that already comes with a bullet spindle for plug 'n' play) is a great way to "upgrade" an already good reel into a killer reel for better casting control and distance. I've done this to 4 or 5 Abu reels already, and added in a solid RR cage, too. On a few I also went with a Zzeta spool and all reels get ABEC 5 hybrid ceramic bearings.


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## Thorhammer (9 mo ago)

Then I buy Bob's leftovers and upgrade my old 5500C's


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

Thorhammer said:


> Then I buy Bob's leftovers and upgrade my old 5500C's


🤣


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Stealth Magged ABU 7000.

Caught a lot of Drum before I switched to better reels.

Now that it is magged will it be back in play? 










I have some Shimano Speedmaster ll's with BlackDog adjustable mags, it is not necessary to adjust the mag during the cast.

Certainly not as pretty as Bob's Rocket Frames, but it rode around in the back of Hatteras Island Beach trucks for many years and was put away wet.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Spins reel smooth, this dog will hunt.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

I am going to mag my old Crusty 7000 next, this is the before Mag Photo. 

Overall cost of mag project: $.89

Overall cost of new side plates ceramic bearings CT Bars $110

Overall amount of trash talking $$$$$$$

Does it look like a Rocket? Well no... Perhaps not as cool and machined looking but it hold more line.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Waiting on the Epoxy to dry overnight and Crusty will have a new magnetic personality in the AM.

I am thinking I am going to re wrap my All Star XXX-Heavy 1509 one more time. I tried a color combo that is not making me feel lucky.

I almost took out the Alcohol Burner a moment ago to strip the guides off the 1509 but it was too too cold in garage for shorts and flip flops and besides I am supposed to be working. Have not decided on new color scheme yet. First thing to get over is the hours of work I spent re wrapping the rod the last time...wait I am already over that. 

I want a good stick to match my Magnetic 7000's. It takes me around an hour a guide these days to wrap all time accounted for including epoxy. 

With a short butt section the XXX Heavy 1509 is actually a pretty good beach rod. It not a stiff as CTS 1306 and 1307 and can still chuck 10 ounces and bait.


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## Thorhammer (9 mo ago)

Garbo, I like it. I like it a lot. Perhaps start another thread on your rewrap? Love to see the combo's outcome.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

First time I wrapped my All Star 1509 XXX it was A Thread under and over wraps in Ruby Red. That wrap job lasted 15 years before it had age deteriorated to the point I stripped it off. I could see better back then so I only worked with A thread. Now it is A under and D over because of vision.

The offending part of the re wrap job was using a Rose colored A thread for under wrap that did not take the threadmaster too well and it had patches of bleed thru and looked mottle. 

It was most offensive on the thread wrap over the female ferrule at the end of the Blank. I wrap about a four to five inch long portion of the ferrule for no other real reason to help protect it during flexing during the cast and for esthetics. A fair amount of All Star 1508's and 1509's back in the day cracked at the ferrule because the builders had either no or only a little bit of thread like a 1/2" or so protecting the ferrule. DD had one that broke.

I cut this ferrule wrap off yesterday and spray painted the blank end after I sanded it. The guides are not as offensive because the under wrap is mostly covered by the guide and trim wraps. I have decided to just put a heavy coat of epoxy where the ferrule wrap was and wait to see if I want to strip the rest off.

I have a Century Cobia Jig Rod and Loomis 1265 to build next.

I need to test these 7000's first with their new Magnetic Personalities.


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## Thorhammer (9 mo ago)

Please post pics, 7000's inclusive...


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## tufnik (Sep 11, 2011)

Interesting....my Abu 6500 C3 has potential, eh? Not sure how to make it killer though.

I also have the following. Do they have potential? (Some were cheap, so I bought them* at Flea markets years ago. Never really used them)

Sealine X-40 SHV*
Saltist STTLW 30 HA (Used for surf casting, but LW is limiting)
Fathom FTH30 (this is my deep drop party boat reel)
Sealine 20SHA*
Sealine Slosh*
Abu 6500 C3
Avet SXJ (Not sure I like LD for surf casting)
Tekota 500


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

If it's casting distance that's required for a reel, that will typically take some experimenting. For starters, an Abu 6500 is up to the task with proper line, a good shocker, just clean the spool bearings. See what it will do with the level wind on, but for the most part you'll probably get lots more distance with the line guide and big LW sprocket removed. 

The reel won't be as important as casting technique, the rod, the line. Lots of experimenting to do, but that's part of the casting fun.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Static magged 20SHA removed Clicker and epoxy a washer down over clicker hole. Reel was then gone thru and RemOiled.









Same 20SHA before pendulum cast 5 ounce Stingsilver










After Cast same 20SHA had 20 pound Big Game and ProSpec Top Shot 2nd cast of day. Was totally dumping the spool with perhaps 15 feet of line left on spool after I got the cast dialed in. Ceramic bearings. Next time I cast I will take a picture of the longer casts. Not sure of the actual distance as I cast over water but 210 yards or so of 20 pound test mono is coming off the reel.










6500 C3 can be tuned to be a distance reel.

Maybe the Slosh depending on whether it is a 20 or a 30

The Avet if it is magged right.

The rest of your reels are not distance reels unless you take level winds off and mag them.

Out of all your reels the 20SHA for throwing bait and weight is the best in my opinion.

I need to get back to work.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Another cast same 20SHA with the pendulum dialed in.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Obviously the distance will drop with bait and a sinker but you need some line on the reel for the fish's first run.

If I get a splash bite on a stingsilver with the cast above, I may be walking back to the truck for a new set up. Which is why you never leave home without a stack of heavers ready to go in your beach truck.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

If I had a GoPro it would reveal just how quick all that line peels off this 20SHA reel. Since I do not just take my word that the line on the spool just vanishes like magic. 

After I got the pendulum dialed in the last casts I was thumbing the spool at the end of the cast not to prevent an over run but because I was afraid all the line was going to be off the spool and the clinch knot at the end of the line would pop off and I would loose my spool of line and worse my 5 ounce Stingsilver.

Bear in mind the rod I am, using is the very last ALL Star 1507 to leave the plant in Texas. It has a normal uncut 1508 Butt Section and 6 inches was cut off the 1507 tip. Total length of the rod is around 12'8" I think. This rod is around 20 years old. The newer Graphex Century rods would put even more hurt on the pendulum cast.

If I can train a Smoking Hot Hottie to do this I will become one of the top influencers on Instagram and TickTock, trouble is most Smoking Hot Hotties don't Drum Fish.

There is a reason Jimmy Houston or Roland Martin never came to Rodanthe to Drum Fish, they can't cast.......


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## pcbtightlines (Aug 9, 2020)

Yep..also why they (and Bill Dance) fish stocked private bass lakes for their tv shows 🤪


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

I always wanted to go fishing with Bill Dance in one of those secret Ponds where he jacks 6 to 7 pound large mouths on every other cast, in fact I would want to be the guy in the *front of the boat* casting my bait first to the Point or Creek Channel bend while Bill rides me around and I tell Bill how much I like his signature new PopR ....and how effective the spray stink secret bass attractant is on my Hula Popper as some big Fatmouth Bass stomps on it.

I remember watching Roland Martin being guided to the Mouth of the Mississippi River by a Local Charter Captain. Roland and his wife were all in the Big Red Drum. I quit watching these shows mostly, but Roland was on the Drum that day, his wife would not stop talking so I drifted away from Cable TV and moved on to the Internet Hottie YouTube fisherpersons....and do not even have the sound on....

Second coat of Threadmaster is turning on the All Star1509 tip, it looked good last time I checked it. It was real cold in my garage but I took my heat gun and heated up the ferrule end of the 1509 and then heated up two separate cups of Threadmaster both before and after I mixed them up along with keeping the ferrule warm. Could not have done it right with my Alcohol burner, it needed the extra heat from a Porter Cable Heat Gun.

I usually need two coats of Threadmaster, especially up here when the temps drop below 70 degrees.


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## Thorhammer (9 mo ago)

Tuffnik, you have several worthy candidates: SLOSH and SHA can be static magged, knobby magged or thrown pretty well as-is with blocks in. I have two stock 20-shv's and a SLSH 30 for specific applications on 10-12 foot rods. The 40 shv could potentially be used to lob a shark bait, maybe on an ole-skool 10-11 Magnaflex Heaver (meaning flagpole) with a not-quite full spool. The ulua guys in Hawaii can sling a 4/0 wide on 13' rods, no magnets. 

You can spend a little or a lot on ABU's, but I'd say upgrade bearings to ABEC 5 or 7, power handle and get a CT bar from Black Dog tackle. They have videos on these conversions as well, and there are plenty of vids around to show how to change bearings. That set-up will have you looking at whether you have a rod that realizes the capability of the reel. 

You could also sell maybe Tekota and Saltist and get a Fathom, then you're done, except as mentioned I like to take back-ups.


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## tufnik (Sep 11, 2011)

Thanks for the advice on reels, folks.

Wow, there's a lot of casting videos on u-tube.

The Brighton cast starts with lead on the ground and it sits towards the caster. Looks like a straight overhead power cast.
The Easy cast looks like Brighton cast. It involves arm and body rotation. Lead is not directly behind the caster. Presenter said to get the angles right for the swing.

Are these methods regarded as the same?

What is overhead thump casting? Same as Brighton cast?

Really want to try the pendulum method too. But first, will try to do the Easy and Brighton casts very well before I try this method.

Won't do much practice here in Virginia now; it's winter.


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

tufnik said:


> Thanks for the advice on reels, folks.
> 
> Wow, there's a lot of casting videos on u-tube.
> 
> ...


The "thump" cast is what 99% of all fishermen do - a few feet at most of payload hanging off the tip, rear back, throw the payload forward, aiming at the horizon with arms close to the body, and the payload will reach 40 yards at best. ALL of that is Totally Wrong if achieving significant distance is the goal. 

Proper CASTING TECHNIQUE yields significant distance.

Start with the John Holden "easy cast" OTG - Off The Ground. Follow John's dictum. Master the OTG first - forget the pendulum - take baby steps that will bolster your casting confidence. Watch John's OTG videos. Practice in yer living room with a short 2-3' stick over the Winter months. Ingrain the technique in your muscle memory. You will be pleasantly surprised come Spring. 

Tackle Musts ...

If the reel is a revolver, use mono and not braid.

Do NOT over spool your reel - always better to under spool! 

Always tie on a appropriate mono shock leader test weight and length to the main line for the appropriate weight you'll be tossing. For surf fishing the East Coast, hard to go wrong with basic 50lb mono of 20-30' for a 10' rod or longer. Much heavier lead can require up to an 80lb mono shocker, or more.


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## Stoneda70 (Dec 18, 2020)

Relative to cast method and own self observation.. been surf casting for a few years now, so somewhat new. But, fish as often as can, and have in prior years field casted at a local park a few times per winter. This winter, i've become more determined. Over time have experimented with otg, hatteras, pendulum. Watched alot-a videos. Experience thus far; has IMHO proven the experts are giving great advice with - best method is to develop a good OTG, first.

Case in action - went to the park two days ago, it was 33 degrees, 22 windchill. Possibly brain freeze because i been seeing some otg improvement, and suddenly felt the recurring urge to go with pendulum... knowing there's still alot of otg room. I got 7 off - 3 were kind of okay but short, two were pretty sad, 1 was bizzare like a 3rd base line drive thing (thumb may have frozen, but still..) Final one had to thumb off because it was heading toward one if the field light poles that i gotta navigate (resulting in birdsnest). What did i learn? Nothing really.. already knew what i done wrong. Back to the otg bullpen..


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## Matt Bizarro (Jan 26, 2016)

The “overhead thump” can actually perform as a legitimate cast. There’s a video or two on Youtube by Terry Edmonds that covers how to do it properly. I use it on piers.


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## BeachBob (Aug 27, 2010)

Matt Bizarro said:


> The “overhead thump” can actually perform as a legitimate cast. There’s a video or two on Youtube by Terry Edmonds that covers how to do it properly. I use it on piers.


Yes, it's "legitimate" mainly because that's all most folks know, but it sucks royally for added distance that can be accomplished with a simple OTG. 

For close quarter casting - crowded beaches and piers - the Aerial Hatteras is the better choice than an overhead thump, even the TE tricked out version. The AH takes up no more room than the OHT, but the distance accomplished surprises almost everyone.

YMMV.


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