# River Rig



## SALTSHAKER

Getting ready for the Sea Mullet (kingfish) here and have been hearing about a "River Rig" in the OBX that is being used for the Sea Mullet and Pomps. Anybody have any info in these? Made with the flourocarbon leaders and have been catching pretty good down there and want to try em up here on the Northern Kings..,, any info appreciated... salt


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## solid7

SALTSHAKER said:


> Made with the flourocarbon leaders


NO, NO, NO... SHHHH.....

We don't say the "F" word around here! They're all going to laugh at you!


The "river rig" that I know, is basically a pompano type rig (poor man's rig, chicken rig, etc) with a single drop, and the hook and weight in swapped positions. They are swapped because it makes a more natural presentation than a drop rig, and the terminal end is a little more "free flowing"

You can also build a fish finder, but put the sliding weight on a long drop. (about 6-10")

Not sure why the kingfish would care about fluoro, as they are not leader shy, but I have no problem with it. Just don't think that it's mandatory in that case. It's only a matter of time before the "don't waste your money on fluoro" crowd chimes in, so there's your warning...


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## NC KingFisher

Imo the only time u need flouro is in florida and when ur pompano fishing in extremely clear water. I dont use it but have considered it. The cost is a little high for good quality though.


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## HStew

If it's gonna have a fish attached to the other end use the best you can buy or make and don't fret the the money .


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## NTKG

buy a River rig, River is a fish catchin dude... Plus ya don't need flouro anyway, last i checked fish didn't see in greenopcorn:


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## HStew

Fish don't see green or don't see in green? Many fish can see red,orange,blue and green.In 10' of wayer almost all red is absorbed. At 10' red appears as gray. Studies have shown that fish favor a specific color. Inshore fish have good color vision because near shore water is lit by many colors. Offshore waters are mainly blue and green. The lighter the day the clearer the water the lighter my gear is, and yes I paint my leads flou chart.


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## markedwards

flouro carbon is overrated give it to me and i will dispose of it for you.


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## NTKG

HStew said:


> Fish don't see green or don't see in green? Many fish can see red,orange,blue and green.In 10' of wayer almost all red is absorbed. At 10' red appears as gray. Studies have shown that fish favor a specific color. Inshore fish have good color vision because near shore water is lit by many colors. Offshore waters are mainly blue and green. The lighter the day the clearer the water the lighter my gear is, and yes I paint my leads flou chart.


Stew, Sorry I was making apparently a poor attempt at humor with green=money for Solid


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## solid7

NTKG said:


> Stew, Sorry I was making apparently a poor attempt at humor with green=money for Solid


I gotta have my fluoro down here... We got some real leader shy critters. The rest of you wiseass bullies got to let these guys figure out for themselves, sometimes... 

But no worries, Neil... I got me a good job. I might just spool a reel up with fluoro, just because I can


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## DrumintheSuds

Try a Carolina Rig........I keep a 7' trout rod tied up with a single hook carolina rig when walking the beach or "scouting" for feeding pomps and sea mullet. I toss it the rig out into the suds and let it roll along looking for hungries. I also use this technique when scouting the shallow flats and spot pomps or mullet scurrying in and out grabbing fleas.

As far as flourocarbon goes it's just money I guess but pink ANDE was the "original fluoro" before actual fluoro. It's rare that I fish water as clear as some of the florida folks so I tie my rigs with pink ANDE


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## RocknReds

For all you doubters - I use them and they out catch the standard rig 2 to 1


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## JAM

*Other Rigs Will Catch but River Rigs Catch Citations*

River was Picked up by TEAM TEACH's LAIR, we have and Sell the River Rig Here at the Shop.. Most of the good Shops on the Island are carying these.. River Turned me on to them awhile back, and they just flat out work.. No Hardware and Flouro is the Key... 

"Imo the only time u need flouro is in florida and when ur pompano fishing in extremely clear water. I dont use it but have considered it. The cost is a little high for good quality though". 

Only time your gonna catch Pompano on Hatteras is the same Gin Clear Conditions, they work.. 

https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.p...31160863.52281.210314212339165&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.p...31160863.52281.210314212339165&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.p...31160863.52281.210314212339165&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.p...31160863.52281.210314212339165&type=1&theater

I'm a Believer and so is Phil's son, as he destroys a Near Citation Pompano caught on the River Rig.. 
JAM


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## HStew

Would like to see a photo or illustration of the "River Rig". I think it is not a rig you fish in a river, but the persons name ( River ) that ties (or invented)it.


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## bronzbck1

Great rig, the secret is out. Now there wont be any fish left when I get home...................


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## JAM

*I guess someone will put one up but it won't be me..*



HStew said:


> Would like to see a photo or illustration of the "River Rig". I think it is not a rig you fish in a river, but the persons name ( River ) that ties (or invented)it.


These rigs are "FOR SALE" in Tackle Shops on the Island.. If we just put the Illustration up, would kinda defeat the purpose of Selling the River Rig.. I am sure someone will post it up but it won't be me.. LOL.. JAM


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## DrumintheSuds

I don't understand the no illustration thing if you are trying to sale something but that is JMO. Not everybody fishes Hatteras......But I respect your reasoning. I remember when the "Chip Stevens" rig went crazy. Melinda from Tradewinds was kind enough to post an illustration of it and I'm sure folks who are capable of tying rigs mimicked their own version but I doubt the originator lost any money


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## bronzbck1

My understanding it is going to or is available in tackle shops up & down the coast. I know they are in New Jersey


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## JAM

*Again I am not the Inventor of it*

so I will not give it away, if you all want to thats fine but I have Loyality to my friends.. If River wants to put up an illustration, that s his Deal, Not mine.. JAM


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## wdbrand

Buy one, then you'll have your pattern. Rare breed that can still spell loyality, let alone practice it today JAM. Good fer you.


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## HStew

Didn't mean to try and " steal" anything from anyone or put anybody's friendship in jeopardy. It is interesting to find out how it works and the principle behind why it works, or if it really is new or not. If it's good as it seems to be you can expect many to be sold cause there are many out there who,can't, won't, or refuse learn to tie their own mess.


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## RocknReds

Support the Island economy the Park Service is trying to destroy - purchase some River Rigs.


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## solid7

The real way to hit the Park Service in the nads is not to buy River Rigs, (sorry JAM) but to convince everyone in the affected areas to stop paying taxes for awhile.

If they're going to get you one way or another, it might as well be in a way that they can feel right away. It's easy to make a criminal out of 1 person, but prosecuting a mob is expensive. It's only a matter of months now until we have a new leader, and an age of austerity. The "justice system" doesn't work that fast.

Sorry for interrupting the shameless plug. It was on my mind.


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## HStew

*Rriver rigs*

Oh, by the way under one of the photos in the facebook pics you posted, Jam, caption says - feel free to ask River how to tie them.


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## bronzbck1

Here is one https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.ne...1142282903_1413870395_3538559_847746312_n.jpg Even kids can catch nice fish so I'm sure you guys could use them. https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.ne...135642737_1413870395_3538547_1663655535_n.jpg


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## JAM

HStew said:


> Oh, by the way under one of the photos in the facebook pics you posted, Jam, caption says - feel free to ask River how to tie them.


Dude stop being so CHEAP and Freakin Buy one, its not Rocket Science, then you will have the pattern. It's a Freakin JOKE that everyone wants everything for FREE, yet when asked to support Free and Open Beach's Most (not all) dissapear and are not heard from. I am Not River so HSTEW, Like I said You can Ask Him.. I get no proceedes from the River Rig as it is not mine. I just sell them along with thousands of other Fishing products. All I can say is that The WORK, River has more Pompano and Sea mullet Citations the anyone I know of..... 

Unbelieveable...

JAM


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## DrumintheSuds

JAM

How is this asking for something free? It's a piece of leader with a hook and a weight for crying out loud. You still have to tie the thing and from the looks of it this isn't something drastically new and innovative. Like I said I understand you wanting to help out your buddy and your "loyalty" thing and all but I'm sure he wont miss out on a buck from people buying them when visiting Hatteras tackle shops. Thank god for guys like Owen Lupten and the "inventor" of the Chip Stevens rig (which is a great rig by the way) who could care less if there special rig is on display for the world to see. If anything I don't understand why you are so defensive.


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## DrumintheSuds

For what it's worth it looks to me like a 3 way rig without the 3 way ring. Appears that you tie a long double loop and cut it to make 2 tag ends (one for the weight and one for a teaser hook). The bottom end of the main leader has a snelled hook and the top end of the main leader has a barrel swivel. It reminds me of the Chip Stevens rig without a fish finder.

Perhaps I looked at the picture wrong but this is how it looks to me.

Not a bad idea at all and YES I can see where it would work well with just about any fish


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## JAM

*Not Defensive of Anything as I have no dog in the Hunt*



DrumintheSuds said:


> JAM
> 
> How is this asking for something free? It's a piece of leader with a hook and a weight for crying out loud. You still have to tie the thing and from the looks of it this isn't something drastically new and innovative. Like I said I understand you wanting to help out your buddy and your "loyalty" thing and all but I'm sure he wont miss out on a buck from people buying them when visiting Hatteras tackle shops. Thank god for guys like Owen Lupten and the "inventor" of the Chip Stevens rig (which is a great rig by the way) who could care less if there special rig is on display for the world to see. If anything I don't understand why you are so defensive.


If I Invented it, it would be my descision weather or not to display it, I DID NOT INVENT IT, hence it is not my deal, hence I will not post photo's of Rig.. BTW if you cut the loop the way you describe it will fail at the loop.. Just sayin..TBH with you I have never heard of Owen Lupten and the "inventor" of the Chip Stevens Rig don't read any of the magazines and just fish everyday.. Not defensive but I am not gonna burn my buddies rig, if ya want one we will gladly ship to you. It is not my JOB to give away peoples secrets, it is my job to turn you onto fish and help you catch them, which I do on a daily basis, and it is my pleasure to do so.. 

I have put up many pictures of different Rigs IE: Cannon Ball and explain things to folks on a daily basis. I get a kick out of some folks, always looking for Products on the Internet, to save a buck.. Is that Online Store gonna tell ya where the Fish are Biting that day, at that moment, I doubt it, but I will.. Maybe ole Chip and Owen have it made, but this White Boy works 3 Jobs, so I can afford to live and Fish Hatteras Island.. Not Pissed at all, ya see I was raised in a Biker family, and its the rule of the threes, if it don't [email protected], Feed or Finance me its none of my business.. This will be my last post on the River Rig, come and get them, or not, see the Rule of 3's, no dog in this hunt.. 

JAM


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## DrumintheSuds

It's cool JAM.....we are on the same side man. Been fighting for access since 1981. Like I said I understand your reasons but it's just a rig.


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## HStew

ditto druminthesuds-- as I stated earlier( post #4 ) "If it's gonna have a fish attached to the other end use the best you can Buy or make and don't fret the money. Please PM me the info so I can call or order online.


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## DrumintheSuds

If somebody even wanted to buy one how would you go about it? I haven't seen a website from any tackle shop that offers the opportunity to buy tackle online other than Hatteras Jacks and I wouldn't know which one was a river rig on top of that. Somebody said they were being sold in New Jersey.....where? What tackle shop?


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## Garboman

Did Zing Pow catch that nice Pompano on the River Rig or is he just a Facebook Friend?


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## RocknReds

The Tradewinds Tackle Shop on Ocracoke has them and will ship them to you - check out their board.


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## bronzbck1

Garboman said:


> Did Zing Pow catch that nice Pompano on the River Rig or is he just a Facebook Friend?


River gave Lee the rig. He went straight out on 55 and caught that nice fish and a few others on that rig.


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## bronzbck1

DrumintheSuds said:


> For what it's worth it looks to me like a 3 way rig without the 3 way ring. Appears that you tie a long double loop and cut it to make 2 tag ends (one for the weight and one for a teaser hook). The bottom end of the main leader has a snelled hook and the top end of the main leader has a barrel swivel. "
> You got it right, you saw the picture and copyed it. Now your happy........now you still will be out fished......


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## JAM

*Hey WNC Rick*

What do you do for a living??? 

Well what ever it is why don't you come to my house and do it for FREE..Sound like a good deal to you, does to me....

Yes Zing Pow caught the 3.17 pound Pompano on the River Rig.. 

Shipped 3 out yesterday, call 252-986-2460 The Roost Bait N Tackle and we will gladly ship... 

JAM


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## DrumintheSuds

bronzbck1 said:


> DrumintheSuds said:
> 
> 
> 
> For what it's worth it looks to me like a 3 way rig without the 3 way ring. Appears that you tie a long double loop and cut it to make 2 tag ends (one for the weight and one for a teaser hook). The bottom end of the main leader has a snelled hook and the top end of the main leader has a barrel swivel. "
> You got it right, you saw the picture and copyed it. Now your happy........now you still will be out fished......
> 
> 
> 
> LOL....A "rig" doesn't make an angler. Reading water, using the right bait, fishing at the right time and a willingness to move and adapt your tactics fills the coolers up. I have no doubt this rig works well like many that have come before it. Something else will come after this that catches fish too and another and another. Our grandparents caught fish before we ever did and plenty of them at that. Did they have flourocarbon leaders? River Rigs? No they used their instincts and knowledge to learn and adapt. We have ALL aquired and passed on knowledge over the years. I learned a LOT from some of the best and the most valuable rule I learned was to keep it simple.
> 
> Like I said it's just a rig with a hook on the end not a fish charmer. If it isn't in the right place with the right bait it's nothing more than an expense tied to expensive line, and expensive reel and expensive pole.
Click to expand...


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## River

Dang - I didn't want to get on here but figured I better, first of all, I'm a fisherman not a inventor - I relocated here from upstate NC a little less than 3 years ago to fish the rest of my life away. I've fished and hunted all my life and have several ex-wifes to prove it but I have managed to succeed pretty much in everything I've tryed, due to always surrounding myself with the best of that sport. Nothing changed when I started coming to Hatteras Island - I asked question about good fisherman and I found em, most became good friends and most still are. This Rig could easily be named after some of the greatest, what I call Mulletheads that fish this island, like Larry Hart, Kenneth Cash, Wayne Gless (The Artist) and I can never forget my best buddy who always inspires me, Susan McClanahan (SusanOBX). I have known the power of Fluorocarbon since my pier fishin days on the long gone Iron Steamer Pier back in days when I Flounder fished the wreck and everyone wondered why I caught just a few more fish than they did so when I started coming here in 2004, Fluoro was already in my bag and I started using it while I watched and learned from the best. I began to experiment with different size Flouro, hooks, beads and lengths everyday. I fish 4 rods alot, so different styles would go on each rod till I began to narrow it down to what really caught fish. As time went by, I began to get known a little because of the citations I weighed out in local shops and I was not really out fishin my friends but my fish were always bigger and it seemed Citations were no problem. I got in a one man Tournament, the 4 plus last fall, 400 plus fisherman and I knew that I could win before entering, almost unfair and I haven't entered any more. I had 16 Sea Mullet in my cooler that day, all over a pound with three Citations at around 1 and 3/4 lb each, the second place fish was 1 lb 7 oz., it was then that I began to realize just how good the Rig was. My friends have mostly switched to my length's, Lb test Fluoro and hooks now and we all catch nice fish. My RiverRig was receiving so much talk that I got an E-mail from another friend, Joe Moore (One More Cast Distributer) offering to tie, package and distribute the RiverRig, I said "Why Not" and spent some time with Joe showing him how to tie the RiverRig and it's many variations. The RiverRig as Jam stated is not Rocket Science, no fancy knots - just overhand knots, nothing special at all just a very simple rig that catches fish. I am not selfish and luv to see everyone catch fish and I have shown many people how to tie the rig and they all are catchin fish but I believe its not in my best interest to show it on here but I now work at Teaches Lair "The Roost" on Friday and Saturdays and will gladly show anyone who comes in how to tie the RiverRig, if I have time. My Rig is different than the Owen Lupton Rig, the Lupton Rigs saves Drums from being gut hooked, the RiverRig puts more fish on the table, my opinion on Fluorocarbon is, if there's light in the water Fluorocarbon works. Tradewinds has my RiverRig on line and Frisco Rod & Gun will have it on soon, Teaches Lair, The Pelican Roost, Frisco Tackle, Highway 12 Tackle (Steve Groves Shop) and Dillions Corner has the RiverRig and retailer that would like to stock it should contact Joe Moore at [email protected]. Thanks for all my friends especially Jam that supported me on this Thread, good straight up friends are hard to find - Grab a RiverRig, catch a Citation, Gone Fishin - River


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## DrumintheSuds

River said:


> Dang - I didn't want to get on here but figured I better, first of all, I'm a fisherman not a inventor - I relocated here from upstate NC a little less than 3 years ago to fish the rest of my life away. I've fished and hunted all my life and have several ex-wifes to prove it but I have managed to succeed pretty much in everything I've tryed, due to always surrounding myself with the best of that sport. Nothing changed when I started coming to Hatteras Island - I asked question about good fisherman and I found em, most became good friends and most still are. This Rig could easily be named after some of the greatest, what I call Mulletheads that fish this island, like Larry Hart, Kenneth Cash, Wayne Gless (The Artist) and I can never forget my best buddy who always inspires me, Susan McClanahan (SusanOBX). I have known the power of Fluorocarbon since my pier fishin days on the long gone Iron Steamer Pier back in days when I Flounder fished the wreck and everyone wondered why I caught just a few more fish than they did so when I started coming here in 2004, Fluoro was already in my bag and I started using it while I watched and learned from the best. I began to experiment with different size Flouro, hooks, beads and lengths everyday. I fish 4 rods alot, so different styles would go on each rod till I began to narrow it down to what really caught fish. As time went by, I began to get known a little because of the citations I weighed out in local shops and I was not really out fishin my friends but my fish were always bigger and it seemed Citations were no problem. I got in a one man Tournament, the 4 plus last fall, 400 plus fisherman and I knew that I could win before entering, almost unfair and I haven't entered any more. I had 16 Sea Mullet in my cooler that day, all over a pound with three Citations at around 1 and 3/4 lb each, the second place fish was 1 lb 7 oz., it was then that I began to realize just how good the Rig was. My friends have mostly switched to my length's, Lb test Fluoro and hooks now and we all catch nice fish. My RiverRig was receiving so much talk that I got an E-mail from another friend, Joe Moore (One More Cast Distributer) offering to tie, package and distribute the RiverRig, I said "Why Not" and spent some time with Joe showing him how to tie the RiverRig and it's many variations. The RiverRig as Jam stated is not Rocket Science, no fancy knots - just overhand knots, nothing special at all just a very simple rig that catches fish. I am not selfish and luv to see everyone catch fish and I have shown many people how to tie the rig and they all are catchin fish but I believe its not in my best interest to show it on here but I now work at Teaches Lair "The Roost" on Friday and Saturdays and will gladly show anyone who comes in how to tie the RiverRig, if I have time. My Rig is different than the Owen Lupton Rig, the Lupton Rigs saves Drums from being gut hooked, the RiverRig puts more fish on the table, my opinion on Fluorocarbon is, if there's light in the water Fluorocarbon works. Tradewinds has my RiverRig on line and Frisco Rod & Gun will have it on soon, Teaches Lair, The Pelican Roost, Frisco Tackle, Highway 12 Tackle (Steve Groves Shop) and Dillions Corner has the RiverRig and retailer that would like to stock it should contact Joe Moore at [email protected]. Thanks for all my friends especially Jam that supported me on this Thread, good straight up friends are hard to find - Grab a RiverRig, catch a Citation, Gone Fishin - River


Glad you came on here River and I hope you don't feel any disrespect on my part. I'm always up for trying new things and would like to try your rig just to see. I looked on the tradewinds website but didn't see anything called the "RiverRig"......Is your rig the same thing as the Chip Stevens rig?


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## solid7

You don't have to extol the virtues of fluoro to me... I've always believed that using fluoro won't make a bad fisherman fish good, but it may help a good fisherman fish better. 

Hopefully you won't waste too much time trying to convince. Better to just keep on making $ selling rigs. Hell, if you can do it, my hat's off to you.

I might even buy one, just to support a small businessman. (and I'm notoriously against purchasing rigs that I can tie)


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## River

Druminthesuds, no disrespect whatsoever - I totally understand. Maybe Tradewinds doesn't have it on yet - they just ordered yesterday along with Frisco Rod and Gun, I trully have no idea what the Chip Stevens Rig looks like - River


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## DrumintheSuds

River said:


> Druminthesuds, no disrespect whatsoever - I totally understand. Maybe Tradewinds doesn't have it on yet - they just ordered yesterday along with Frisco Rod and Gun, I trully have no idea what the Chip Stevens Rig looks like - River


The Chip Stevens rig is a Joe Moore rig (don't know if Joe invented it or if he just distributes it). It has a slider above the hook, a teaser loop then a barrel swivel. I have caught a lot of puppy drum on it. I have tied a rig similar to what I think yours is but haven't tied it with fluoro. I basically tie a loop for the sinker and then snell a hook on the tag end. The picture I saw of your looks like it has a teaser which is interesting. I have grown fond of trying ways to incorporate a teaser


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## JamesRiverVa

I'm always interested to try new rigs. This River rig is definitely intriguing. I know DrumintheSuds is right that if you aren't fishing where the fish are, no rig is going to make a difference. But I also am a big believer that if you have located the fish, the right rig can make a difference at least some of the time.

I like teasers too as mentioned above, both on rigs for drum and bluefish, and also on panfish rigs. I've messed around tying my own bottom rigs for summer fishing using VMC hot skirt panfish jigs as the hooks and had good luck with them on sea mullet and small pomps last summer, although a few got bitten off by blues. As far as drum fishing I'm still learning but I caught my first citation drum last fall using the two-hook bottom rig with teasers that Tradewindsties and sells as a "puppy drum rig." I swapped the circle hooks tradewinds puts on the rig out for larger hooks.

I bought a few "Silly Willy Jigs" from FL this winter - similar to the Doc's Goofy Jig also sold down in FL. They come with a teaser and are supposedly great on pomps down there. Has anyone used them on the OBX for summer fishing? Seems like they might make a fun and effective "prospecting" lure to walk the beach with and cast on light tackle?


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## solid7

JamesRiverVa said:


> I'm always interested to try new rigs. This River rig is definitely intriguing.


I did some checking around, and from what I gather, it's basically just a pompano rig tied in fluoro. I checked with a couple of my favorite shops who know Joe Moore, and that's what I got out of it.



JamesRiverVa said:


> I bought a few "Silly Willy Jigs" from FL this winter - similar to the Doc's Goofy Jig also sold down in FL. They come with a teaser and are supposedly great on pomps down there. Has anyone used them on the OBX for summer fishing? Seems like they might make a fun and effective "prospecting" lure to walk the beach with and cast on light tackle?


I've not had great luck with those jigs anywhere that wasn't either inshore, or on a boat. (and both cases, a sandy bottom in front of pilings) On a mad pompano run, yeah, maybe you're gonna get some mileage on the beach. But for those onsie-twosies, bait is still the best thing going.

That's not speaking of OBX, but your surf up there always seemed a bit more obnoxious than what I'm used to. I can't see those jigs working well there, either, but what the hell do I know?


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## HStew

River - thanks for posting and I am looking forward to purchasing and trying half dozen or more of your rigs. 
signed H "cheapassdude" stew


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## AbuMike

JamesRiverVa said:


> I'm always interested to try new rigs. This River rig is definitely intriguing. I know DrumintheSuds is right that if you aren't fishing where the fish are, no rig is going to make a difference. But I also am a big believer that if you have located the fish, the right rig can make a difference at least some of the time.
> 
> I like teasers too as mentioned above, both on rigs for drum and bluefish, and also on panfish rigs. I've messed around tying my own bottom rigs for summer fishing using VMC hot skirt panfish jigs as the hooks and had good luck with them on sea mullet and small pomps last summer, although a few got bitten off by blues. As far as drum fishing I'm still learning but I caught my first citation drum last fall using the two-hook bottom rig with teasers that Tradewindsties and sells as a "puppy drum rig." I swapped the circle hooks tradewinds puts on the rig out for larger hooks.
> 
> I bought a few *"Silly Willy Jigs"* from FL this winter - similar to the Doc's Goofy Jig also sold down in FL. They come with a teaser and are supposedly great on pomps down there. Has anyone used them on the OBX for summer fishing? Seems like they might make a fun and effective "prospecting" lure to walk the beach with and cast on light tackle?


Don't let anyone fool ya. These works just fine on our "obnoxious" beaches. Ate Pomps and Mullet caught on them just this past Sunday.


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## DrumintheSuds

I had pretty good luck with the silly willy jigs last year under "certain conditions".....I found a unique way to use it during the summer months


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## solid7

AbuMike said:


> Don't let anyone fool ya. These works just fine on our "obnoxious" beaches. Ate Pomps and Mullet caught on them just this past Sunday.


They work like mad here on our Gulf Coast, and especially in the bays. I don't have bit of luck in the Atlantic coastal waters, though. How do you fish them? What conditions do you use them in?

That's curiosity, not smarta$$ery. Looking to learn something...

By "obnoxious", I simply meant that we are used to a bit calmer and cleaner surf than what I have seen up your way. Nothing more intended.


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## DrumintheSuds

solid7 said:


> I did some checking around, and from what I gather, it's basically just a pompano rig tied in fluoro. I checked with a couple of my favorite shops who know Joe Moore, and that's what I got out of it.
> 
> 
> 
> I've not had great luck with those jigs anywhere that wasn't either inshore, or on a boat. (and both cases, a sandy bottom in front of pilings) On a mad pompano run, yeah, maybe you're gonna get some mileage on the beach. But for those onsie-twosies, bait is still the best thing going.
> 
> That's not speaking of OBX, but your surf up there always seemed a bit more obnoxious than what I'm used to. I can't see those jigs working well there, either, but what the hell do I know?


I think it is a 3 way rig with a knot instead of the brass ring. Tied with flouro, a pretty long leader for a more natural look in the water and a sticky sharp hook


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## DrumintheSuds

solid7 said:


> They work like mad here on our Gulf Coast, and especially in the bays. I don't have bit of luck in the Atlantic coastal waters, though. How do you fish them? What conditions do you use them in?
> 
> That's curiosity, not smarta$$ery. Looking to learn something...
> 
> By "obnoxious", I simply meant that we are used to a bit calmer and cleaner surf than what I have seen up your way. Nothing more intended.


I had success with mine using it like a walking weight...bouncing it off the bottom ever so slightly. Tied a dropper loop a few inches above it with a teaser. Worked well when the water turned to aqua velva. I would toss it down the beach and work it right along the bank


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## solid7

During runs, or just when pomps were in season?


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## JamesRiverVa

DrumintheSuds said:


> I had success with mine using it like a walking weight...bouncing it off the bottom ever so slightly. Tied a dropper loop a few inches above it with a teaser. Worked well when the water turned to aqua velva. I would toss it down the beach and work it right along the bank


When you're fishing it that way (or any other way) do you tip the jig and/or teaser with shrimp or any other bait? Or do you just fish it purely as a lure?

Last summer I used a homemade 2 hook bottom rig with those VMC jigs on 20 lb flouro and a 1 or 2 oz bass sinker as the weight as my prospecting rig, tipping the jigs with a small piece of shrimp and casting it as you describe kind of parallel to the shore or quartering away and letting it roll, bounce around as I retrieved it. Didn't catch anything real big (no pomps bigger than my hand) but it was a fun change of pace from sitting in the hot sun and soaking bait, and did bring in some good sea mullets/whiting and small pomps. I'm hoping to try the same thing this year with the goofy/silly willy jigs and teaser.


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## DrumintheSuds

solid7 said:


> During runs, or just when pomps were in season?


During runs.....Caught smaller pomps and some nice flatties. I cut the hook off of one of the jigs and used it as a fishfinder. Ran the main line through the eye and snelled a hook on the end with a flea. Had some fun with that setup too.....


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## solid7

DrumintheSuds said:


> During runs.....Caught smaller pomps and some nice flatties. I cut the hook off of one of the jigs and used it as a fishfinder. Ran the main line through the eye and snelled a hook on the end with a flea. Had some fun with that setup too.....


Yeah, I can totally see that. Now sniping them out of the surf, just when you know they are there, but not in full run, that seems a bit more difficult to me. (never seen them caught under those circumstances)

These jigs are tops when you are in a boat, and can spook a school of pomps into "flashing". No run necessary.


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## bronzbck1

"I did some checking around, and from what I gather, it's basically just a pompano rig tied in fluoro. I checked with a couple of my favorite shops who know Joe Moore, and that's what I got out of it."

*Wrong*


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## JAM

bronzbck1 said:


> "I did some checking around, and from what I gather, it's basically just a pompano rig tied in fluoro. I checked with a couple of my favorite shops who know Joe Moore, and that's what I got out of it."
> 
> *Wrong*


+ 1

Heck Percy, I saw the River Rig Up close and personal, went home tied (my own verson of it cause I was way off) and got up with River and he showed me what I did WRONG.. By looking at it in a Picture you would not get the rig right. 

JAM


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## River

As far as being a Pompano Rig tied in Fluoro, I'm not sure what a - Pompano Rig - looks like, I've always tied my own rigs but it is a two hook rig mainly designed for Sea Mullet, not Pompano, althought it works great and catches plenty of Pompano when thrown in the right place. I would like to point out a few things brought to my attention last night while talking to SusanOBX, The RiverRig's are being tied with several variations of hooks, the Circles are for what I call "Spikers", like me, I spike my rods - the "J" hooks are for what I call "Jerkers" like a few of my friends who must jerk when they see or feel the rod bouncing. I'm sure most of ya'll are aware of the difference in hooks but some aren't, if you're getting a hard bite on the circle hook rig an you run and jerk it, you will lose the fish. As Susan said, Sunday her Grandchildren caught several citations using her tied RiverRigs with circle hooks, but she was watchin the rods and would wait till the rod bowed down hard before calling for the kids to get it, that way they always caught the fish. Natural reaction sometimes takes effect when fisherman see the rod bouncing and they grab it an jerk, if you do that with a circle hook, you'll loose the fish. With Circle hooks as I'm sure many of you are aware, you let the rod bow down, then pick it up - pull tight, hopefully your drag is set correctly, don't jerk just start crankin, with the "J" hook RiverRigs you can run, get it when it start bouncing an Jerk! Hopefully sometime soon we may be able to print some more info on the package. By the way, Medium size Sandfleas will do the trick, sometimes I'll put two small Sandfleas on back to back, looks like a little crab - Pompano luv it. The beaded RiverRigs work best when Sandfleas have lost their eggs, Thanks much - River


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## solid7

Don't know what you fellas call a "pompano rig", but round these parts, it's nothing more than a double drop rig, WITH OR WITHOUT beads/floats. There are a million frickin' variations on the theme. And they are the exact same thing we use to catch Gulf and Atlantic Kingfish (not seamullet/whiting) around here.

OK, I'm not gonna debate it. I saw a double drop rig. They work great. Even better in fluoro.

Looks like a good rig, and no doubt catches fish.


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## DrumintheSuds

When I started flea fishing a few years ago I changed my entire approach from the rods I used down to the hook. I now use light action steelhead rods and circle hooks for the very reasons River mentioned. Fish picks up flea, pulls a nice bow in the rod and circle hook finishes the deal. I don't run to the rod anymore I just pick it up, tug on it and reel.....I also switched to braided line.


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## DrumintheSuds

solid7 said:


> Don't know what you fellas call a "pompano rig", but round these parts, it's nothing more than a double drop rig, WITH OR WITHOUT beads/floats. There are a million frickin' variations on the theme. And they are the exact same thing we use to catch Gulf and Atlantic Kingfish (not seamullet/whiting) around here.
> 
> OK, I'm not gonna debate it. I saw a double drop rig. They work great. Even better in fluoro.
> 
> Looks like a good rig, and no doubt catches fish.


When I looked at the picture a page or so back it looks like a 3 way rig with a long drop


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## solid7

DrumintheSuds said:


> I also switched to braided line.


Almost every commercial pompano fisherman that I know uses braided line. I've mimicked a lot of their formula in my attempt at pompano success. 

Can't say that it holds any real advantage, (other than strenght to weight ratio) but I like it. And you can lose a whole lot of it without re-spooling. Fishing 12lb test (which I used to do, cause I like the feel) and hooking a monster drum when you aren't expecting it, can really start to piss a guy off after awhile. No more worries with braid...


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## solid7

I didn't see those pics before, but that's what I have seen in the past called a "River rig". (what I was describing early on in the post)

Anyway, the dude said here a few posts back that it was a double hook rig. I only saw one hook in those pics... (that bronzbck1 posted) Is it supposed to be a double snell, or a double drop?


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## DrumintheSuds

solid7 said:


> Almost every commercial pompano fisherman that I know uses braided line. I've mimicked a lot of their formula in my attempt at pompano success.
> 
> Can't say that it holds any real advantage, (other than strenght to weight ratio) but I like it. And you can lose a whole lot of it without re-spooling. Fishing 12lb test (which I used to do, cause I like the feel) and hooking a monster drum when you aren't expecting it, can really start to piss a guy off after awhile. No more worries with braid...


I like it for several reasons but one of the main reasons is that it helps stick the fish after he pulls that bow in the rod. With a sharp circle or kayle hook he doesn't have much chance to spit the flea out.


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## greg12345

some of the old salt pomp guys here in NC swear by a single real long drop for flea fishing for the biguns


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## JAM

*It works*

Thats all I can Say, Thanks River...

https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.p...31160863.52281.210314212339165&type=1&theater



JAM


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## AbuMike

solid7 said:


> I didn't see those pics before, but that's what I have seen in the past called a "River rig". (what I was describing early on in the post)
> 
> Anyway, the dude said here a few posts back that it was a double hook rig. I only saw one hook in those pics... (that bronzbck1 posted) Is it supposed to be a double snell, or a double drop?


If y'all can't get it from the pics call he man up and buy a couple. After studing the pics and reading I don't think it's that hard to figure out....Jam I called ya this AM, will get with ya first of the week when yer back...


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## solid7

AbuMike said:


> If y'all can't get it from the pics call he man up and buy a couple.


Already did.


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## greg12345

out of curiosity is there a way to easily change out the hooks on this rig? just asking. will buy some to see what the fuss is about.


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## DrumintheSuds

This rig was supposedly designed to catch more sea mullet which tells me 2 things. Keep the bait on the bottom and make the leader or "drop" as stealthy as possible.

Long "drop" (18"-20" minimum) keeps it flowing natural in current like a Carolina Rig, light leader makes a big difference as well. The key is to build it light so it wont snap.

The pic I saw appears to have a 2nd hook like a short teaser and this could be accomplished several ways although I don't know why you would need a 2nd hook.......


The best flea fishermen I ever knew only used 1 rig. He took the storebought rigs with the twisted wire booms and retied them to make them longer. He used pre-made snells from eagle claw. He always told me the biggest keys to catching nice mullet was sandfleas and keeping them on the bottom where his mouth was.


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## solid7

DrumintheSuds said:


> This rig was supposedly designed to catch more sea mullet which tells me 2 things. Keep the bait on the bottom and make the leader or "drop" as stealthy as possible.


Not sure I would agree with that. Kingfish are not the least bit leader shy. They are almost as plain dumb and greedy as a redfish - and possibly more so, given that they tend to travel in some pretty big schools, at times.

No sir, stealth is not required for catching those critters.


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## DrumintheSuds

solid7 said:


> Not sure I would agree with that. Kingfish are not the least bit leader shy. They are almost as plain dumb and greedy as a redfish - and possibly more so, given that they tend to travel in some pretty big schools, at times.
> 
> No sir, stealth is not required for catching those critters.


Stealthy is probably the wrong word.....lol. I think the longer drop keeps it more "natural". I think the real key is keeping the bait on the bottom and tangle free


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## HStew

If the fish are out far, I keep the rod angle high in a spike. The rod length of choice here will be 10'-12'. Medium distance 7'-10' , rod angle low. For fishing in close 7' rod, angle low. High angle = just less than 90 degree, low angle= between 45 and 22 1/2 degrees. Even with circles I like a little bow in the line. I don't say I'm going fishing for pomps or whiting, I say " I'm going Angling."


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## solid7

Damn HStew.... Thought about line angles much? You make catching easy fish sound like rocket science.


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## HStew

Solid7-- You don't have to go to rocket science college to catch fish... You just gotta go to School (fish that is). lol


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## DrumintheSuds

HStew said:


> If the fish are out far, I keep the rod angle high in a spike. The rod length of choice here will be 10'-12'. Medium distance 7'-10' , rod angle low. For fishing in close 7' rod, angle low. High angle = just less than 90 degree, low angle= between 45 and 22 1/2 degrees. Even with circles I like a little bow in the line. I don't say I'm going fishing for pomps or whiting, I say " I'm going Angling."


I rarely if ever need a long cast so I pretty much always low spike. To fish the skinny water that I do it's important in order to keep the bait on the bottom.


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## River

Solid7, I'll have to disagree with you on Sea Mullet not being leader shy - small ones aren't but the big ones are in my opinion. I have shown numerous good fisherman how to tie my rig, several have got back with me and said it wasn't working. The first thing I ask is to see their Fluorocarbon, in every instance they had tryed to save money and bought one of the 200 yd (large) rolls marked 100% Fluorocarbon or Fluorocarbon. I explain to them that its 100% Fluoro coated or mixed to prevent mono from stretching so much, it's not pure Fluoro. When they bought the right Fluoro, they started catching fish - I know of no other explanation but the fact that big Sea Mullet are leader shy - maybe someone has a good explanation otherwise, I'm listening - River


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## DrumintheSuds

River said:


> Solid7, I'll have to disagree with you on Sea Mullet not being leader shy - small ones aren't but the big ones are in my opinion. I have shown numerous good fisherman how to tie my rig, several have got back with me and said it wasn't working. The first thing I ask is to see their Fluorocarbon, in every instance they had tryed to save money and bought one of the 200 yd (large) rolls marked 100% Fluorocarbon or Fluorocarbon. I explain to them that its 100% Fluoro coated or mixed to prevent mono from stretching so much, it's not pure Fluoro. When they bought the right Fluoro, they started catching fish - I know of no other explanation but the fact that big Sea Mullet are leader shy - maybe someone has a good explanation otherwise, I'm listening - River


Hard to say River. The guy that learned me put some of the biggest sea mullet I have ever seen in the cooler everytime I saw or fished with him. He caught big mullet, big pompano and nice black drum. His rig was a retied deal with 2 wire booms and 8" snoods and I don't recall ever seeing him fish with anything else. The wire boom keeps the fleas on the bottom and the rig from tangling in the current. I have never seen a difference using fluoro but perhaps I am using the wrong stuff. I tried the 25lb ANDE Fluro. Any suggestions on a better brand?


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## solid7

River said:


> Solid7, I'll have to disagree with you on Sea Mullet not being leader shy - small ones aren't but the big ones are in my opinion. I have shown numerous good fisherman how to tie my rig, several have got back with me and said it wasn't working. The first thing I ask is to see their Fluorocarbon, in every instance they had tryed to save money and bought one of the 200 yd (large) rolls marked 100% Fluorocarbon or Fluorocarbon. I explain to them that its 100% Fluoro coated or mixed to prevent mono from stretching so much, it's not pure Fluoro. When they bought the right Fluoro, they started catching fish - I know of no other explanation but the fact that big Sea Mullet are leader shy - maybe someone has a good explanation otherwise, I'm listening - River


Must be another of them North Carolina things. I catch Kingfish all the time (of both the Atlantic and Gulf varieties) even on wire leaders - which I use for blues when I know sharks are in the area. My experience is that the big ones are usually a little farther out. The small ones are feeding on smaller stuff in near surf and wash. The bigger ones are in smaller schools, just out of reach of where most guys are putting baits. When we have winter runs down here, there isn't anything they won't bite on, it seems like. It's not uncommon to catch several dozen in the scope of an hour. Usually, it's more common to catch about 2 or 3 big ones in an hour.

I'm not gonna claim to be some great fisherman, but those are the easiest fish to catch around these parts. Not leader shy in Florida. Pompano are a different story...

DISCLAIMER: I am in no way trying to dissuade anyone from buying your rig.


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## DrumintheSuds

I have also found that the flats swashbars I fish tend to produce the bigger fish. The sand is harder and while you tend to catch fewer fish the ones I catch are quality. Of course I hole hop so you pick up a dozen or so quality mullet and drum in a tide cycle the cooler fills up quick. Often times the sea mullet and pomps are the first to come up on the bar followed by the black drum and puppy drum.


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## River

Totally understand what you're sayin Druminthesuds, I work around and know a bunch of great fisherman - offshore, inshore and surf - I myself have fished all my life and I've caught an have seen Sea Mullet caught in my younger years and I hear all the storys too but I just know what I see and they see the same thing. We all have theorys - I have never used ANDE, I have used Sufix, Hi Seas and Seaguar and they've all worked good, all the pure Fluoro ones are probably OK - I like the 110 yd roll of Sufix InvisiLine, its a bargain in reality, lasts a long time - River


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## River

Thats interesting Solid7, what could be the difference between Fla and NC - All interesting stuff guys, pleasure discussin this topic with ya'll - River


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## solid7

I don't know. My choice of bait is a bit different, but I can't think of anything else. Beach structure and surf conditions might come into play.

You are always welcome to come down and hit the beach with me. Put it to the test....


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## DrumintheSuds

River said:


> Totally understand what you're sayin Druminthesuds, I work around and know a bunch of great fisherman - offshore, inshore and surf - I myself have fished all my life and I've caught an have seen Sea Mullet caught in my younger years and I hear all the storys too but I just know what I see and they see the same thing. We all have theorys - I have never used ANDE, I have used Sufix, Hi Seas and Seaguar and they've all worked good, all the pure Fluoro ones are probably OK - I like the 110 yd roll of Sufix InvisiLine, its a bargain in reality, lasts a long time - River


I think if you circled all the best mulletheads to fish the OBX over the years you will find several things in common when it comes to techniques and rigs. Keep the bait on the bottom and fleas if you are serious about quality fish. How that can best be accomplished is like skinning a cat and it's pretty obvious your method of doing it works. I fished the deepest, prettiest holes I could find for 2 decades and never even thought about catching fish in the flats until I was shown the hows and whys. Now I fish stretches 99.9% of people wouldn't even dream of throwing a hook in. I'm sure I will try the RiverRig to see how it works in the skinny water


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## solid7

DrumintheSuds said:


> I think if you circled all the best mulletheads to fish the OBX over the years you will find several things in common when it comes to techniques and rigs. Keep the bait on the bottom and fleas if you are serious about quality fish. How that can best be accomplished is like skinning a cat and it's pretty obvious your method of doing it works. I fished the deepest, prettiest holes I could find for 2 decades and never even thought about catching fish in the flats until I was shown the hows and whys. Now I fish stretches 99.9% of people wouldn't even dream of throwing a hook in. I'm sure I will try the RiverRig to see how it works in the skinny water


One thing I know from doing a lot of diving, is that the fish wander those flats, searching the ripples. Where the bottom is flat, little ridges form, and my best guess is that it's good for opportunistic feeding. By "opportunistic", I mean that the flats are so featureless, that anything that appears is an easy grab, and it's close enough to shore to contain food, but far enough out to make scanning large swaths easy work. I've seen them behave this way, many times. (underwater, of course - I am no fish seer)

All sorts of stuff lives in those hard bottoms. Crabs, clams, sand dollars, etc, etc.. Also, on tide changes, a lot of stuff gets uncovered in those same areas. You will find, if you open stomachs, that a Kingfish's primary diet consists of clams. Sure, they eat fleas, but they when they aren't right up on the shore break, they aren't getting many fleas - and yet, they are still getting clams, because fleas and little clams literally occupy the same spaces. (many times, where you find coquina clams, you'll find fleas intermingled) And as somebody else hinted at, the bigger ones aren't usually right up on the shorebreak. They are usually wandering in small packs of a dozen or less, and covering a lot of ground. (although they don't seem to wander too far - which would indicate to me that when they find food in one area, the scour and cover the area multiple times - hence, multiple hook-ups)

In inshore waters, Kingfish can often be found scanning the edges of grass beds, where the grass meets sand or other clearing.


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## NC KingFisher

Lol were arguing bout wether or not whiting are leader shy. Off all the species


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## RocknReds

When the water is gin clear I use flurocarbon for even puppy drum. It works much better than standard line.


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## River

RocknReds, I with you 100%, I even tie my BlowToad Rig with Fluoro and I can wack and stack the Blow Toads - I trully believe everything loves a natural Look - River


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## DrumintheSuds

solid7 said:


> One thing I know from doing a lot of diving, is that the fish wander those flats, searching the ripples. Where the bottom is flat, little ridges form, and my best guess is that it's good for opportunistic feeding. By "opportunistic", I mean that the flats are so featureless, that anything that appears is an easy grab, and it's close enough to shore to contain food, but far enough out to make scanning large swaths easy work. I've seen them behave this way, many times. (underwater, of course - I am no fish seer)
> 
> All sorts of stuff lives in those hard bottoms. Crabs, clams, sand dollars, etc, etc.. Also, on tide changes, a lot of stuff gets uncovered in those same areas. You will find, if you open stomachs, that a Kingfish's primary diet consists of clams. Sure, they eat fleas, but they when they aren't right up on the shore break, they aren't getting many fleas - and yet, they are still getting clams, because fleas and little clams literally occupy the same spaces. (many times, where you find coquina clams, you'll find fleas intermingled) And as somebody else hinted at, the bigger ones aren't usually right up on the shorebreak. They are usually wandering in small packs of a dozen or less, and covering a lot of ground. (although they don't seem to wander too far - which would indicate to me that when they find food in one area, the scour and cover the area multiple times - hence, multiple hook-ups)
> 
> In inshore waters, Kingfish can often be found scanning the edges of grass beds, where the grass meets sand or other clearing.


YEP.....That pretty much sums it up. I actually have to get my fleas at the other end of the island from where I fish because they are scarce. The coquinas beds are what I key on and they are plentiful in my prefered hotspots. The swash bars are like a chinese all you can eat full of clams, crabs and minnows. I look for those ripples (ridges) and potholes and anything else that might chop the water up a bit. There is deep water on the backside of these bars so when the waves break they constantly roll over the bar keeping things stirred up but not too rough.


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## greg12345

This is great thread on mullet / pomp fishing. I have only been fishing fleas for several years but have become a huge believer and will not fish with anything else at this point if they are available. Not sure about fluoro vs. mono leaders but I only target pomps so everything is tied with fluoro, and I try to get away with as low a lb test as I can (usually 20 or 25lb ande fluoro for the drops/snoods, 25-40lb for the main (also fluoro) depending on how much weight I am throwing. I am also a big believer in tieing your own rigs and using absolutely NO hardware at all other than a swivel to connect the mainline to the leader. Sinker is looped through a a surgeon's knot. Will sometime add beads as well...I like the 8mm bright orange bead from basspro if I had to pick one. Circle hooks, braided line, and steelhead rods (or long rods with a soft tip) is I how I like to roll. I like the gami octopus circle in #2 or #1 or the 1x mustad demon circle in #1 to #2/0 depending on the size of the fleas I have. I like medium size sand fleas the size of a small grape. I will drive 30' to get fresh fleas and then sort through and if there are a bunch I will throw back all the ones that are not the exact right size I want.

Once I started fishing fleas started catching citation mullet easily and regularly. If I can catch them they are easy to catch. My ratio of citation mullet to citation pompano is about 10:1, I don't know if this is just because there are more mullet around, my bait is in the wrong place, etc., or I'm just a piss-poor pompano fisherman, It's just what I find. Citation size mullet are usually out deeper and always hit the bottom drop when I am fishing w/a 2-hook bottom rig, i.e. they hit the bait that is on the sea floor as you would expect given their mouths. 

Off topic but I am also a huge believer in fluoro leaders for sheepshead fishing, as well as using a very short shank hook that is as well concealed as possible in a fiddler crab, those big ones are smart.


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## solid7

I don't even use sand fleas when targeting Kingfish. I use cut bait. (mullet strips are KING) Clams are also a top notch bait.

For me, flea fishing is too hit or miss. They either really want them, or they really don't. There is just something about baits that aren't hard, or don't have to be "peeled" to eat. I guess they are like us - convenience is king.

You fellas can rig with whatever you want, but if you want big Kingfish, try the cut bait sometime. It doesn't matter if it's fresh, salted, or frozen. Clams should be fresh or salted for max effect.


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## greg12345

Yeah I have caught mullet on cut bait as well, let's face it, they will eat anything. My main problem with cut bait is that I think skates/stingrays are more likely to eat it than eat a sand flea (although have caught plenty of skates on fleas). If it is a big enough ray you can end up losing a lot of braided line...and there goes $$$ down the drain.


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## solid7

greg12345 said:


> Yeah I have caught mullet on cut bait as well, let's face it, they will eat anything. My main problem with cut bait is that I think skates/stingrays are more likely to eat it than eat a sand flea (although have caught plenty of skates on fleas). If it is a big enough ray you can end up losing a lot of braided line...and there goes $$$ down the drain.


I guess that's a fair point. I just don't catch that many rays in the surf here. (they are a real issue inshore, however)

I guess I'd rather risk something like that than get peckered all day long with small ones, though.


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## JamesRiverVa

Bait-wise, I catch my mullet and pomps (and the occasional black drum) on sections of peeled shrimp the size of mini marshmallows. I've tried fleas on and off over the past few years and have yet to catch the first fish on them. Makes me wonder if I'm doing something wrong b/c I know sand fleas are prime bait for alot of people and a major part of the diet of lots of surf fish.


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## DrumintheSuds

JamesRiverVa said:


> Bait-wise, I catch my mullet and pomps (and the occasional black drum) on sections of peeled shrimp the size of mini marshmallows. I've tried fleas on and off over the past few years and have yet to catch the first fish on them. Makes me wonder if I'm doing something wrong b/c I know sand fleas are prime bait for alot of people and a major part of the diet of lots of surf fish.


Best advice I can give you is to lighten up......I switched to steelhead rods that have a softer tip and phenomenal bite detection. Tie your rigs out of 20-25lb leader and use smaller hooks that are sticky sharpe. I use 2/0 or 3/0 Eagle Claws and I like #2 Owner mute light circles. I use as light a weight as possible to hold bottom. You will also have better success keeping the fleas on the bottom where the fish are looking for them. Beefstick rods, 80lb leader and big hooks will find you coming back with no flea OR fish.


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## solid7

self setting hooks (circle or Kahle) work on any size tackle. I catch most of mine on my 13' surf rod with 30# braid and 50# shock leader with 4 oz. of weight.

Bite detection is not a necessity with the right rig. If you are coming back with no bait, you probably got a crab or pinfish problem. (again, that's what diving will tell you)


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## River

OK, here goes my opinion again - there are three types of Sea Mullet/Whiting/Kingfish - Northern, Southern and Gulf. We have all three here on Hatteras Island. The Southern's preference in bait, again in my opinion is Cutbait, squid, shrimp - about anything but they're not to fond of Sandfleas, they'll hit em occasionally. The Southern are here on occasion, this past year they showed up in abundance in Dec. and on into Jan. - there were a few caught in early spring. The Gulf and Northern luv Sandfleas, its their # 1 bait in my opinion, with Blood Worms second and FRESH Shrimp third but they'll hit cutbait and other baits ocasionally, I've caught em on Gulps while fishin for Flounder. The Northern and Gulf show up in the spring and stay through the summer on into Nov. - the Northern and Gulf hang out next to the suds, bottom of the hump on steep beaches running into the thin water to grab a flea - the Southern hang around the bar, no need for em to hang close cause they're not after Fleas. As far as school size, I've had the privilage of watching the Gulf/Northerns from Piers, several days on one occasion when the water was clear, smaller ones tend to run in large schools, 20 plus fish - as they get larger, the school size gets smaller down to 3 or 4 for the really big ones. The Southern, I'm not sure about school size - maybe Solid7 knows. It's sometimes hard for me to tell the difference between a Northern and a Gulf but the one with the tall fin on its back is a Northern and the one with the black tip on it's tail is a Gulf, the Southern's easy, it's got a brownish tint. I'd luv to hear your opinions on this, Druminthesuds, solid7 or anybody. The RiverRigs are going good with some great reviews, carried 4 more doz to a tackle shop on the island yesterday, he had sold out in about a week and fisherman were coming in with very positive remarks, wanting more - very good info on here, Thanks and again just my opinion - River


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## AbuMike

From what I have seen these are great rigs River. Social media is fast becoming one of the best sources of free advertising you can get. As with most things some will copy it but for the most part things that WORK will sell. We that build are just a small part of the equation. Also sometimes fisherman tend to over think things and going back to basics will get more fish in the box. My dad used to tell me..."boy you may not catch anything but you will be the best dressed fisherman on the pier". How true that is sometimes...


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## HStew

Southern (whiting, kingfish, sea mullet-all local names most in n.c.,va.,s.c. are familiar with) has silvery background overlaid with dark bars running diagonally (head/////tail.
Northern -long ray on first dorsal fin. Stripes run different (head \ //////tail)
Gulf-silvery in color and lacks darker bars on body.usually have a dark blue black spot on upper part of their tail.


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## SALTSHAKER

After my original question on River Rigs one thing is apparent. They catch fish, and this River is a class act... thanks for the imput.... salt


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## DrumintheSuds

River
I agree. I have always referred to the northern as a "sea mullet" and have always called the gulf a "whiting" for whatever reason. The Northern (sea mullet) and gulf (whiting) love sandfleas and fresh shrimp and the southern sea mullet love a piece of cut bait. Last summer I caught some of the biggest whiting I have ever seen on sandfleas in water 12" deep on the flats. In fact you can spot the dorsal fins of the northerns just as soon as water starts coming over the swash bar. They are like kamikaze dive bombers coming all the way up to the beach to grab fleas and clams before scooting back out. I drive along the flats slow looking for those dorsal fins and if I see a nice run of them I will toss my carolina rig out on a trout rod in the suds. If they are plentiful and feeding agressively I can pick up some nice fish this way.


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## RocknReds

On to the kingfish (sea mulet, round head, whiting etc) bait scene. Some days they want fleas, some days meat (cut bait), some days blood worms, some days fresh shrimp, some days fresh squid. You have to change baits if what you're using isn't working. A month ago I only could catch them on a falling tide if my hooks had hardware (floats, beads, spinners, etc) and when the tide changed they would only hit a a hook with no hardware. You have to be ready to change tactics to catch them. Sometimes they're smarter than the fisherman. My main bitch is when the netters target them.


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## NC KingFisher

This is why i started shark fishin Go to the sea food place and get some heads and ur ready to roll


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## solid7

River said:


> The Southern, I'm not sure about school size - maybe Solid7 knows.


Not sure. Nothing schools quite as heavy as the Gulf variety, though, IME...

We really don't see that many Southerns around my part of the world.



River said:


> It's sometimes hard for me to tell the difference between a Northern and a Gulf but the one with the tall fin on its back is a Northern and the one with the black tip on it's tail is a Gulf, the Southern's easy, it's got a brownish tint.


Not quite right.

A Gulf is always silvery, and may or may not include the black tip.

The Northern and Southern are the ones that are harder to tell apart. Both of them will exhibit color when you catch them, and they turn into a black/white marble color when you put 'em in the cooler. There is usually a size difference - with the Southerns being the bigger of the 2, and the Northern has a dark "V" shape by the pectoral fins. And, as you rightly pointed out, the Northern has the tall spine on its back.


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## HStew

Ditto solid7 - forgot how to say V -only thing I could think of was (head \ ///// tail).


----------



## DrumintheSuds

River
I ordered one of your rigs to see what the hype is all about. Glad to help you out!

I do have one question however. I know you mentioned all your fishing buds were using "your prefered" lengths and whatnot. Is the rig your are selling tied to those same specs so to speak?


----------



## River

Yes - All of my friends are tying close to the same thing, there may be some slight differences in lengths because we don't use a ruler to measure when tying on the beach, there are several different styles in retail stores with several different type hooks, as I mentioned earlier, "J" and Circle. The beaded rig is not working as good right now as what I call the Naked Rig. Have caught some nice fish the last couple days, have kept Rods out with beaded and the Naked rigs, have caught all the fish on the Naked ones without beads, my friend have commented the same thing. The beads will start working better than the one without beads later on in the year, when Sand Fleas lose their eggs. Testing, there have been some rigs sent to New Jersey with heavier Fluoro and larger hooks for Stripers and some rigged very similar have been sent to the Islands for Roosterfish, If you're ever down this way Druminthesuds, let me know - we'll hook up and fish some, Thanks -River


----------



## DrumintheSuds

River said:


> Yes - All of my friends are tying close to the same thing, there may be some slight differences in lengths because we don't use a ruler to measure when tying on the beach, there are several different styles in retail stores with several different type hooks, as I mentioned earlier, "J" and Circle. The beaded rig is not working as good right now as what I call the Naked Rig. Have caught some nice fish the last couple days, have kept Rods out with beaded and the Naked rigs, have caught all the fish on the Naked ones without beads, my friend have commented the same thing. The beads will start working better than the one without beads later on in the year, when Sand Fleas lose their eggs. Testing, there have been some rigs sent to New Jersey with heavier Fluoro and larger hooks for Stripers and some rigged very similar have been sent to the Islands for Roosterfish, If you're ever down this way Druminthesuds, let me know - we'll hook up and fish some, Thanks -River


Gotcha!.....Looking forward to trying this thing and "tinkering with it" ;-)


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## DrumintheSuds

Got the River Rig in the mail today. It's the EXACT same rig I tie when I need a longer drop and don't want to use loops. There are many variations for tying this rig including tying it out of Fluoro but it's nothing new.........Either way it answered my curiosity.

Definitely a good rig though!


----------



## River

I'm sure many fisherman that tie their own rigs have tied very similar rigs to the RiverRig - as several people stated earlier - It's not Rocket Science and it pretty easy to tie and it really catched Sea Mullet, Pompano and other species. I fished yesterday with a friend and it wasn't a nice day, wind almost straight down the beach and cool but we still caught some real nice Pompano and Sea Mullet, nobody on either side of us as far as we could see caught any fish , and somebody will definitely take the spot we had before we get there today - People think its the spot we're at but its the Rig. Carried 4 more dozen to "The Pelican Roost" Tackle Shop here in Hatteras Village yesterday afternoon, Steve says hes weighing a lot of fish caught with the RiverRig and people are coming back for more - Thanks for the input Druminthesuds, I'm headed out fishin again - River


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## greg12345

U can always tell a diehard by their bottom rigs...always hand tied.


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## HStew

carry about 125 (last count just now 117) .. When someone asks me what i'm using I say "go over and get you some out of that bucket and try them if you like".


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## solid7

greg12345 said:


> U can always tell a diehard by their bottom rigs...always hand tied.


I always thought that was a sign of cheap ass... Lord knows there are shops tying better rigs than me - I just can't bring myself to buy 'em at retail.


----------



## RocknReds

River: Which hook is catching sea mullet/ roundhead/ kingfish better? The gold kahle or the small black circle ? How do they compare on pompano?


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## River

RocknReds, when fishin with Sandfleas, I prefer the small black circle, it works great on Pompano too - if I were using anything other than sandfleas, I'd probably use the gold kahle - River


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## CrawFish

What River said.. Sandflea would dull the tip of the hook really fast and circle hooks don't have to be extremely sharp.


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## solid7

CrawFish said:


> What River said.. Sandflea would dull the tip of the hook really fast and circle hooks don't have to be extremely sharp.


So you keep an old hook as a "flea punch".

I thought everyone did that trick.

I used Gold Kahles because the sandfleas like them - but if it weren't for that, those are some **** hooks. I think that just casting them through the air makes them dull.


----------



## CrawFish

Thanks for the tip.. I usually just put a diff one on..


----------



## solid7

CrawFish said:


> Thanks for the tip.. I usually just put a diff one on..


No, I put new ones EVERY single time out, because the gold Kahles are just that bad.

But I save one of the old ones, because a brand new one doesn't need any help in getting dull fast. That is what I use to punch through the shell on a flea. Works even better if you knock the barb off.

Oh, and they rust after the first time out, too, no matter how good you wash them off.


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## bronzbck1

I don't worry about the hook getting dull punching through sand fleas. Your line is worn and turning white by the time you've dulled them punching holes. The rig is too visible and time for a whole new rig if you punched that many fleas.


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## AbuMike

bronzbck1 said:


> I don't worry about the hook getting dull punching through sand fleas. Your line is worn and turning white by the time you've dulled them punching holes. The rig is too visible and time for a whole new rig if you punched that many fleas.


+1 cause there is no like button.....someone said it a while back. this ain't rocket science folks. we are not re inventing fishing...


----------



## solid7

bronzbck1 said:


> I don't worry about the hook getting dull punching through sand fleas. Your line is worn and turning white by the time you've dulled them punching holes. The rig is too visible and time for a whole new rig if you punched that many fleas.


That's a great attention getting statement, but it's complete tosh.

Unless you found some magical Gold Kahle hooks, those things are GARBAGE. They are dull after the first couple of fish. They don't sharpen well. They rust.

No, my rigs don't look like that. I've burned through dozens of boxes of those crappy hooks, and I only continue to use them because they work well as part of a system. If the fish weren't responding well to them, I'd discontinue their use altogether, for something a bit more durable.

I make my pompano rigs to be "field serviceable". My main drop is (get ready for it) 40# FLUORO, and it has dropper loops that I tie new snoods of 15# fluoro into. Since I have to attach Gold Kahles so frequently - so as to have the privilege of having a sharp hook - this system suits me very well. I've been doing this for years. A gold Kahle hook will never see 2 trips on one of my rigs, and often won't make it to the end of the 1st.

You boys up north need to stick to writing the rules on drum fishing, and leave the pompano fishing to us down here, who REALLY know how it's done.


----------



## solid7

AbuMike said:


> +1 cause there is no like button.....someone said it a while back. this ain't rocket science folks. we are not re inventing fishing...


If you fellas had just started doin' it right the first time, we wouldn't be talkin now.


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## kingfish

I'll wear your arse out any day any where, now what them pompinos look like so i can go practice.


----------



## solid7

kingfish said:


> I'll wear your arse out any day any where, now what them pompinos look like so i can go practice.


Come on down, and I'll show you. I'll fish with any of my P&S pals and acquaintances, no matter off your rocker you might be...


----------



## AbuMike

solid7 said:


> If you fellas had just started doin' it right the first time, we wouldn't be talkin now.


this is true but it wasn't too many months ago that a certain someone came on here just chocked full of nubi questions....


----------



## solid7

AbuMike said:


> this is true but it wasn't too many months ago that a certain someone came on here just chocked full of nubi questions....


Go check it... The only thing you helped me with was my casting. Not the pompano fishing part.

I didn't have a rat's ass clue how to cast more than 50 yards, and I fully admit that much.


----------



## greg12345

y'all must be using some diamond-tipped hooks or only soft shell sand fleas cuz even with quality hooks after a day of fishing the sticky sharp point is long gone...even if i'm using circles i want that hook point to make a scratch on my fingernail or it's coming off and a new one is going on.


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## HStew

Any y'all heard of Larry "fishman" Finch -Jax.,Fl . In my opinion he is the man in Florida ...and some of his tactics work great for n.c. some of it's new ,some not- worth a look anyway!


----------



## solid7

HStew said:


> Any y'all heard of Larry "fishman" Finch -Jax.,Fl . In my opinion he is the man in Florida ...and some of his tactics work great for n.c. some of it's new ,some not- worth a look anyway!


Damn straight. I have mentioned him here before.

I have adopted many of his tactics. He knows his stuff, and has both the legacy and following to prove it.


----------



## AbuMike

solid7 said:


> Go check it... The only thing you helped me with was my casting. Not the pompano fishing part.
> 
> I didn't have a rat's ass clue how to cast more than 50 yards, and I fully admit that much.


Did I strike a nerve, because not everyone can walk on the fire right away. Don't think you have been a "Hang Around" long enough to jump in the fire. We can be a hard bunch and I for one did not like the comment you made about Al a few posts back...


----------



## bronzbck1

solid7 said:


> That's a great attention getting statement, but it's complete tosh.
> 
> Unless you found some magical Gold Kahle hooks, those things are GARBAGE. They are dull after the first couple of fish. They don't sharpen well. They rust.
> 
> No, my rigs don't look like that. I've burned through dozens of boxes of those crappy hooks, and I only continue to use them because they work well as part of a system. If the fish weren't responding well to them, I'd discontinue their use altogether, for something a bit more durable.
> 
> I make my pompano rigs to be "field serviceable". My main drop is (get ready for it) 40# FLUORO, and it has dropper loops that I tie new snoods of 15# fluoro into. Since I have to attach Gold Kahles so frequently - so as to have the privilege of having a sharp hook - this system suits me very well. I've been doing this for years. A gold Kahle hook will never see 2 trips on one of my rigs, and often won't make it to the end of the 1st.
> 
> You boys up north need to stick to writing the rules on drum fishing, and leave the pompano fishing to us down here, who REALLY know how it's done.


I guess you are using those crappy gold hooks because we sure don't. I just got back from 10 weeks on the Gulf Coast and I know from years past and the past ten weeks that it is not all that. If it was you would be fishing and not trying to show everyone how you've re-invented the wheel.


----------



## solid7

I don't live on the gulf coast, and I didn't reinvent anything. The gold kahle has been "the gold standard" for pompano rigs for years.

As for you not being able to catch a fish, that's just one experience. I am going over in a month or so, and i am sure that the fishing will be as good as it always has been every other time I've been.


----------



## bronzbck1

solid7 said:


> I don't live on the gulf coast, and I didn't reinvent anything. The gold kahle has been "the gold standard" for pompano rigs for years.
> 
> As for you not being able to catch a fish, that's just one experience. I am going over in a month or so, and i am sure that the fishing will be as good as it always has been every other time I've been.


How do you just make up stuff. I caught plenty of fish there but I didn't try to tell everyone in FL how they did it wrong and this is the the way it is suppose to be done. In fact I probable out fished everyone around me 4 to 1 but I just knew it was because of my experience. I knew well enough to change to the conditions and know that the fish feed different there. The fish in FL don't feed on the same bait as NC as it is also different in NJ etc. therefor different rigs, hooks, and bait. But I'm sure you know all that and then some, so please don't enlighten me.


----------



## solid7

bronzbck1 said:


> How do you just make up stuff. I caught plenty of fish there but I didn't try to tell everyone in FL how they did it wrong and this is the the way it is suppose to be done. In fact I probable out fished everyone around me 4 to 1 but I just knew it was because of my experience. I knew well enough to change to the conditions and know that the fish feed different there. The fish in FL don't feed on the same bait as NC as it is also different in NJ etc. therefor different rigs, hooks, and bait. But I'm sure you know all that and then some, so please don't enlighten me.


Take it easy there, Hoss... NOBODY said you were doing anything wrong. We all know that NC is different, nobody is disputing it. You seemed to have some issue with the Gulf Coast, and it's strictly relative to you - whether that be good, bad, or indifferent, I don't care. Us in-state fellas fish our waters just fine, as I'm sure you do yours.

If you confuse my chain yanking with some of the others for a genuine knock on what I know to be a damn fine bunch of fishermen, then I can't help that. That's humor for ya. Some get it, some don't.


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## kingfish

hey solid, you know what a sexual intellectual is. You have been counted coup upon.


----------



## solid7

kingfish said:


> hey solid, you know what a sexual intellectual is.


Good times  



kingfish said:


> You have been counted coup upon.


Well, I am truly flattered. It's great to know that so many people want a piece of your ass.


----------



## big brother

I'd be careful talking pompano trash with Kingfish, I believe Wayne could come up here to the mountains and catch pomps with a snoopy rod and a worm. 
charlie


----------



## surfchunker

ok finally got the time to set down and read this whole thread and will buy some river rigs when we get down, for the bait part I always seem to catch more fish with bloodworms but I cut a 1/4" piece of FBBW and put it on after the blood to help it stay on better ... but not pomps ... I use shrimp or fleas with a small chunk of orange FB to mimmic the eggs and also hold the flea or shrimp ... now my question is about the rod OBX fisning ... what kind of steelhead rod ... River, Drummin ? how long what lure weight, most I see are under an ounce, do you just lob it a little or are you using heavier ones ... cause im all about the mullet and pomps


----------



## solid7

big brother said:


> I'd be careful talking pompano trash with Kingfish, I believe Wayne could come up here to the mountains and catch pomps with a snoopy rod and a worm.
> charlie


I'd just as soon he come down here, and catch 'em where they're easy.

I'm not trash talking with anyone round here. I consider a little banter as a sign of mutual respect. Give a little, take a little, talk a little fishing. All good.


----------



## JAM

*Not River but do use a SteelHead Rod*

As one of the Three Rods I'll have spiked, when Fishing for the Pomps or the Sea Monkeys.. Mines an 8'6 Custom Lami max an Ounce.. I use that for my in the Wash Rod then I ues another Heavier Rod 8 footer for 2 ounces and use that as My Mid Range Rod.. I use a 9'6 PurGlass 300-1 for my outer Bar Rod.. Hope this Helps.. 

JAM


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## surfchunker

for now I've been using 2 9'ers, one an old sealine and the other a Star, and a 10' St Croix Truimph rated 3/4 to 4 and does really good on longer casts ... I'm mostly after mullets but all big pomps are welcome ... I usually put one pretty close and ther other right behind it then put the 10' either on top of the first bar or against it ... then adjust to where I find them


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## DrumintheSuds

I fish with 9'-6" Fenwick HMX steelhead rods (spinning). I also have a Shimano Covergence 10'-0" and a Cabelas Fish Eagle 10'-0". They aren't rated to throw more than 1oz but I throw up to 3oz with no problems although most of the time I am fishing in close. The bite detection is phenomenal especially flea fishing but these rods have a lot more backbone than you think. I caught a 48" drum last fathers day on one of the Fenwicks with a flea no bigger than your fingernail. Had to play him awhile but got him in!


----------



## DrumintheSuds

I also low spike these rods.....Helps to keep both baits on the bottom


----------



## bronzbck1

​I use two 10' and a 9' salmon steelhead Rainshadows and a 8'6" G Loomis short. You can watch a fish breathe on a steelhead rod.
PS. Even Ray Charles knows to throw away a gold hook Pompano rig after using it!


----------



## NC KingFisher

solid7 said:


> Go check it... The only thing you helped me with was my casting. Not the pompano fishing part.
> 
> I didn't have a rat's ass clue how to cast more than 50 yards, and I fully admit that much.


Sounds like someone needs a rocket fishing rod


----------



## solid7

NC KingFisher said:


> Sounds like someone needs a rocket fishing rod


I catch a lot of pompano out far... Until I got some lessons from some of the regulars and pros, I wasn't able to reach the ones that I was missing.

I still catch most of them at a stone's throw, but I take all I can get. 3 rods out, 3 layers deep.


----------



## solid7

bronzbck1 said:


> PS. Even Ray Charles knows to throw away a gold hook Pompano rig after using it!


C'mon man... That really is low.

I would NEVER buy one of those rigs.


----------



## Mini-Stroke...

So where can I pick up a River rig near Ocean Isle?


----------



## greg12345

i also use a fenwick 9'6" IM-7 steelhead rod for in close.

still amazed by kingfish's pic of his 6lb 4oz pomp last fall...ridiculous. that dude knows how to put the big pomps on the beach.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

bronzbck1 said:


> ​You can watch a fish breathe on a steelhead rod.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Indeed!......My dad calls em "Liar Rods". Looks like lightning struck em even with smaller pan fish


----------



## River

I luv those 8 1/2' Lamiglass Steelhead Rods, I have three and I used to fish with em all the time, the ones I have are rated for 1/2 - 1 3/4 oz but I'd lob out 2 oz with em - a big Pompano are Sea Mullet on one of those Rods would make my heart beat to hard so I moved to larger rods and conventional reels. Now I'm using two WRI 1023 rods that I built into conventionals over the winter, I'm also gettin very hooked on the CPS (Tommy Farmers) rods. Since we lost all the steep beaches here on Hatteras Island and got left with mostly flat beaches, I've had to turn my arsenal into what I call "long distance Mullet Rods". Along with the 1023's, I have a 9' Rainshadow that I really like, a 11' CPS, 2 -5 oz and I just acquired a 10' CPS, 1-4oz and this is gonna make a really nice setup. I want my rods to have small tips and be sensitive like Bronzbk mentioned, I use the Akios Reels on em all with ceramic bearing so I can reach those far out humps on flat beaches. That 11' Tommy Farmer Rod with a 651 SCM (Lefty) Akios on it will reach out and touch those humps and it seems thats where the big Pompano hang out. Mini-Stroke, don't know of a tackle shop on Ocean Isle that has the RiverRigs but they are available on line at "Tradewinds Tackle" or "Frisco Rod and Gun" - Thanks much, River


----------



## solid7

I've got a 13'-6" CCP, which alternates back and forth between a Daiwa 7HT Mag and a 6500 CT Mag Elite. I can cast the Daiwa quite a bit farther, (when I need the distance) but it falters horribly at casting close in. (and isn't great at mid-range casts) The 6500 is sort of my "go-to" for the long distance reel. The CCP is a really great rod for casting 4oz. with a hand tied pompano jig out into the horizon.

I'm not big on light rods in the surf. I always seem to hook something big when I don't want to. (be danged if they are so cooperative when I'm not after them)


----------



## DrumintheSuds

If I had it my way the entire coastline would be flat......LOL. Makes the gutters, runouts and pockets easier to find 

I do like the occassional narrow slough during the summer months


----------



## solid7

DrumintheSuds said:


> If I had it my way the entire coastline would be flat......LOL. Makes the gutters, runouts and pockets easier to find
> 
> I do like the occassional narrow slough during the summer months


Not me... I like the first step off the beach to be into waist deep water... Easier to find FISH that way.


----------



## River

I agree Solid7, I didn't mention it but I do have a Daiwa Hatteras ballistic 33, 13' 3", 2 -10 oz with a Akios 651CTM on it, behind the seat of my truck for the occasion when all else fails and you're right, it's so long, it's tough to cast short cause you can't load it short - real good info on here, River


----------



## DrumintheSuds

If I run into the rare occassion that I have to reach out and touch someone I reach for the 11' Predator......LOVE those rods!


----------



## solid7

River said:


> I agree Solid7, I didn't mention it but I do have a Daiwa Hatteras ballistic 33, 13' 3", 2 -10 oz with a Akios 651CTM on it, behind the seat of my truck for the occasion when all else fails and you're right, it's so long, it's tough to cast short cause you can't load it short


My beef isn't with the long rod... It's the Daiwa reel. Maybe it's just me, I dunno... but it can't seem to cast short without fluffing, no matter how I try. But it will sure bomb one a long ways. Got my longest casts with that 7HT mag.

The long rod is one of Tommy's. I only try to cast it short when I know there is some pomps up close. (I will bring in either the long or medium range when I know I got a school in front of me) For my close in casting, I keep a bunch of Abu 6500's that are straight mechanical. (no mag) Not that a 6500 class reel is needed, but where I fish, there tends to be quite a few black drum, and the occasional red drum or shark. Gets you back out in a hurry...

My medium range rod is a Tica 9'. (who can remember those model numbers)


----------



## NC KingFisher

solid7 said:


> Got my longest casts with that 7HT mag


50yds?


----------



## markedwards

I want to give an honorable mention to the team alabama surf rod and the black mamba as good kingfish rods.

Solid7 would the Tica you're talking about be from the SEHA line? If so I have that line's 9ft rod and love it. I'm going give it try in the surf sometime this summer.


----------



## Tommy

Had the chance last week to do a little river rig testing. Myself, my brother Charlie and my wonderful wife Kim headed down to Fort Fisher for an afternoon on the beach. Charile was fishing light with a CPS 10' 1-4 and a store bought 2 drop bottom rig. He was also fishing a 11' 3-6 with I believe a fish finder, for an off chance at a puppy drum. I had a heaver out long with cut bait and a 11' 3-6 with a two drop bottom rig. Shrimp on the light stuff.

Kim smoked us using light tackle and a river rig. Her tally was two sea mullet, two blowtoads, one nice spot and a pinfish. Charlie - zilch. Yours truely - one giant great white....Ok one very small (10") biter.

We were fishing in the same bar cut, same bait, same time.

The river rig works.

Tommy


----------



## solid7

NC KingFisher said:


> 50yds?


Nope. I'm way past that now.

Thanks to Ryan White and Tommy Farmer for great instruction...


----------



## solid7

markedwards said:


> Solid7 would the Tica you're talking about be from the SEHA line? If so I have that line's 9ft rod and love it. I'm going give it try in the surf sometime this summer.


No, it is model UEHA527402S.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

Tommy said:


> Had the chance last week to do a little river rig testing. Myself, my brother Charlie and my wonderful wife Kim headed down to Fort Fisher for an afternoon on the beach. Charile was fishing light with a CPS 10' 1-4 and a store bought 2 drop bottom rig. He was also fishing a 11' 3-6 with I believe a fish finder, for an off chance at a puppy drum. I had a heaver out long with cut bait and a 11' 3-6 with a two drop bottom rig. Shrimp on the light stuff.
> 
> Kim smoked us using light tackle and a river rig. Her tally was two sea mullet, two blowtoads, one nice spot and a pinfish. Charlie - zilch. Yours truely - one giant great white....Ok one very small (10") biter.
> 
> We were fishing in the same bar cut, same bait, same time.
> 
> The river rig works.
> 
> Tommy


Were you all fishing in close or on the bar? I ask this because I have smoked people that were using "my stuff" because I was 10 feet closer in or because I was on the bar and they weren't.......I believe this rig works because I have had success with it before it became the RiverRig but there is no special magic in it IMO.......There are too many factors involved in fishing to give a "rig" the credit. Sometimes the difference between catching a couple and a cooler full is but a few yards away.

I'm heading down this weekend to my honey hole and I'm gonna fish it side by side with my "go to" rig to see.......If it beats my rig fished side by side I will happily eat my crow


----------



## markedwards

solid7 said:


> Nope. I'm way past that now.
> 
> Thanks to Ryan White and Tommy Farmer for great instruction...


Never heard of them. Who are they?


----------



## solid7

markedwards said:


> Never heard of them. Who are they?


Just a couple a fellers who think they can cast. 

I know one of 'em is real good at blowin' up them fancy reels that he likes so much.  (never did you see you catch that Florida Bull Red, Ryan - you shoulda spent more time fishing, and less time fluffing) 

I was really looking forward to casting that one.


----------



## yerbyray

markedwards said:


> Never heard of them. Who are they?


They invented Flourocarbon Braided line and proud sponsors of the 2012 Iron Steamer Pin Fish Tournament.


----------



## solid7

yerbyray said:


> proud sponsors of the 2012 Iron Steamer Pin Fish Tournament.


I don't know what that means, but it sure as hell sounds impressive.


----------



## surfchunker

ah Mark is yankin you guys ... he's quiet the caster himself ... http://www.carolinasurfcasters.com/resultsstats.htm


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## RocknReds

River: I have always used a 4oz sinker so that the pompano hook themselves (taught to me by Howard Cator). You say you do well with lighter sinkers ? The 4oz sinker with a Akios 555 Shuttle will really get to the outer bars for the long distance fish. Smoked the Pompno that way at Cape Lookout.


----------



## River

RocknReds, Howard Cator was one great fisherman and a good person, I had the good fortune of fishing with him on several occasions, wished I'd fished with him more and I sure wouldn't disagree with Howard's way of fishin, even the older commercial guys talk about him now, I didn't know he had worked net boats but he had. I like to fish the lightest sinker that will lay or barely lay on the bottom. I used to use 1 oz on the Steelhead Rods but now the least I can drop to with the bigger Rods is 2 oz. I tell people that if I have to use 4 ozs., I normally head toward the house. Proof that the Mullet fisherman on this island are finnicky about sinkers is the 2 1/2 oz sinker that has gotten so popular, if 3 oz will lay but 2 oz won't the 2 1/2 oz sinker comes into play. Steve Groves (Highway 12 tackle) is the only one on the island that has these 2 1/2 oz. sinker that I know of. I've never had any trouble at all hooking the Pompano or any fish with the Circle hook thats on the RiverRig, I've caught drum up to 32" on it and a friend caught a 13 lb Black Drum on it last fall. The 555 Akios Shuttle or the 551 Akios Shuttles I use when coupled with a good Rod will throw any reasonable size weight a very long ways. Goin Fishin ! - Thanks, River


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## NC KingFisher

solid7 said:


> I don't know what that means, but it sure as hell sounds impressive.


Its a joke and a funny one at that. Never saw the point in a pinfish tournament. Just confuses me


----------



## solid7

NC KingFisher said:


> Its a joke and a funny one at that. Never saw the point in a pinfish tournament. Just confuses me


I guess my sarcasm came off wrong...

I'm not privy to the specific humor behind it. What I meant was, it sounds like a good one to me. (I'm sure it is)


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## greg12345

Using 2.5oz sinker when a 3oz sinker will hold seems a little much...What's next, are they going to start pouring their own 2.75oz sinker for when 2.5oz won't hold but 3oz will? What's the rationale for fine tuning sinkers to that degree? I like a 3 oz sputnik and I only fish circles, if that isn't holding then it's time to put the pomp rods away.

Surprised there aren't more fans of the team alabama (or black mamba) rod for pomp or mullet fishing, saw it mentioned only once here.


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## surfchunker

cause it takes an act of God to come across a TA rod ... I looked for one last week and couldn't find one


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## River

Greg12345 - I'm not sure of conditions where everyone else fishs but the areas that my friends and other good fisherman fish here on Hatteras Island can be churnin pretty good, if you use to heavy a sinker, it burys up pretty quick so we prefer that the sinker stays on top of the sand and if it moves around a little thats OK with me, thats actually what I want. Again - I'm just tellin my opinion, if something works better for you, thats great and I do like hearing all the different opinions from all the great fisherman on here, but as I said before - when I have to use above 4 ozs, muchless a sputnik, I'll just head on to the house - thats just me, I do understand that lots of people like to fish under those conditions and thats fine, we sell right many sputniks - River


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## DrumintheSuds

Fishing the flats a 2 or 3 holds most of the time. If I have to go to a 4 I change my strategy.....

River I'm going to my honey hole this weekend and I'm gonna put your rig head to head with mine. Using the one right out of the package so we will see how it fairs


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## greg12345

River - Gotcha, that makes perfect sense and I wasn't even thinking of that. I agree that a little motion on the bottom is a good thing, what I usually do when I want to achieve that and the water is clear is cast it out and then slowly work the fleas back in with a short hop (to create a puff of sand by the sinker) and then a pause. When I am spiking my rods I like my bait to stay in the same place b/c I am usually messing with my 4 kids and don't have time to be as vigilant as a moving sinker requires...hence the circles and a weight that will hold bottom and stay there, that way if I look back and my rod tip is different than it was before I know a fish has hit. I'm using a 30lb backbone w/basically 4 small surgeons loops spaced about 6-8" apart, top loop attaches to main line via snap swivel, bottom loop gets looped around sinker (like in your rig) but the other 2 loops are used to attach separately leadered hooks (tied w/15-25lb)...this lets you change out your hooks easily which is my main "beef" with your rig. Just my 2c. Pulled in a 5lb pomp yesterday on this rig, will post pics after this week is up. 

I know everyone is into steelhead rods for pomp fishing, but anyone try out carp rods? That is basically what the predator is, which is a good rod, but I want a higher modulus graphite one and have been looking around at some european/english carp rods. 

Last month on ebay there were 2 TA rods, winning bid was ~$225 i think which is a steal for 2 of those rods....


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## surfchunker

yeah but you can't just get one ... no store with them in stock that I could find


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## DrumintheSuds

Greg we must be siamese twins when it comes to rods. I have a couple of the newer Predators and love those rods. I was lucky enough to have purchased mine at $59 on sale before the price went up......I have turned a lot of people who fish around me on to those rods.


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## HStew

Are those "E" glass rods. Got a couple of those 8' " Mudville" ( $19) rods that are very useful in most conditions,and you don't have to baby them. I think they are "E" glass, detect the smallest nibble, and will really bow when it snags one.


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## River

DrumintheSuds, just treat the RiverRig the same way you treat your Rig - and - I ain't scared, Hope you catch some fish -- Outta curiosity, In just what area of North Carolina is your "Honey Hole" located ? Good Luck, River


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## DrumintheSuds

River said:


> DrumintheSuds, just treat the RiverRig the same way you treat your Rig - and - I ain't scared, Hope you catch some fish -- Outta curiosity, In just what area of North Carolina is your "Honey Hole" located ? Good Luck, River


I fish North Core (Portsmouth Island). I'm gonna use same hooks, same rod, same bait, same everything. I'm gonna have your rig right out of the package, my normal rig with the wire booms and I'm gonna even toss in one of MY riverrigs that isn't tied with fluoro. I'm looking forward to seeing how everything compares


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## DrumintheSuds

HStew said:


> Are those "E" glass rods. Got a couple of those 8' " Mudville" ( $19) rods that are very useful in most conditions,and you don't have to baby them. I think they are "E" glass, detect the smallest nibble, and will really bow when it snags one.


If I'm not mistaken the Predators are a fiberglass/graphite composite


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## yerbyray

Thanks to this thread I just bought for ten bucks a Lipper's Evolution 7' one piece solid graphite casting rod to use for flounder and some light work. Came home and found it was a suprisingly good buy.


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## wdbrand

I've seen a lot of threads come and go on P&S but I'll have to say this about this current one. I ain't never seen a dead horse flogged like this one has been. Totally amazing. No, make that totally unbelievable.


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## wdbrand

DrumintheSuds. Please keep us informed on your test. I'd be most interested. Thanks.


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## bronzbck1

Depends on water color which rig will do better. I've seen the stand up rig wear us out on puppy drum when there was some color to the water.


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## River

You're right Bronzbck1, water color can play a part but the test has been tryed by many fisherman, many times here on Hatteras Island in the last few weeks, mainly Mono against Fluoro and you know as well as I do what comes out on top - stopped by West Virginia Pete yesterday on Ramp 38 and he was doin the test, Pete won't buy Fluoro so a friend of mine had tied him a RiverRig a few days ago - he had 4 rods out, one with the RiverRig and he had 4 nice Sea Mullet in his cooler, one looked to be a Citation. Three including the one that looked to be a Citation were caught on the RiverRig according to Pete but he still didn't think it was the Fluoro - pretty funny but Pete's not gonna buy Fluoro unless the price drops drastically so I gave him a couple RiverRigs, that made him smile and I moved on. Some people won't believe it regardless of how things turn out cause they won't get off the money to buy Fluoro - by the way WD, the length of this thread aint my fault - River


----------



## susanobx

My .02. This thread in going because it's about fishing! Anglers like to talk about fishing. Regardless if they agree or not on tackle, bait, or technique, it's what we all have here in common.


----------



## dudeondacouch

What on earth is going on in here?

I aint heard so much name-dropping in all my life.  I know a guy named Steve; does that lend me any credibility?


----------



## surfchunker

susanobx said:


> My .02. This thread in going because it's about fishing! Anglers like to talk about fishing. Regardless if they agree or not on tackle, bait, or technique, it's what we all have here in common.


and got into some nice methods, rods, and rigs


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## wdbrand

That it did.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

I'm sure somebody has learned something along the way......I know I did!

Leavin out in the mornin. I'll post my results on the riverrig test first chance I get.


----------



## RocknReds

River: Cator used to pompano fish right in the wash and left a little slack in the line. He said it gave them a short run before they fetched up on the sinker. What do you think.


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## AbuMike

Never discount the far out bars for Pomps. Last year while on vacation in KH we were catching Spot on Avalon almost at the "T". Mixed in with them there were some very nice Pomps. Myself and the guy with me were the only ones catching them. Only thing I can say is we were using hand tied flouro. rigs everyone else was using the standard bottom rig.


----------



## NC KingFisher

Never forget the night my 10yr oldcousin was trying to catch me shark bait and started wearing the pomps out on a store bought green bead rig. At the king tee. I might have to try out these new fangled river rigs myself


----------



## River

RocknReds, I'm really not sure what Howard was referrin to, pretty well all the big Pompano I have caught and have seen caught are on the bars, like AbuMike said, not close in. The small Pompano's that are beginning to show here now are caught in the wash. The only thing that requires slack in the line is when the Sea Mullet are runnin up over the hump into thin water to get Fleas and for some reason throwin to the bottom of the hump is not producing very many, thens when me and several other Mullet fisherman I know throw on top of the hump. When you throw there with a light sinker, the water will wash you rig up in thin water and when it goe back out your rig follows and the line tightens back up - slack will develop when the wave come in, then it will disappear/tighten back up when the water goes out. This can be very productive sometimes and you won't really see any bites are bumps, when the Sea Mullet grabs you flea he heads back over the hump fast, hopefully your drags set right and you got a rod with the right action cause its gonna bend down hard in this situation also you better have some good Sand Spikes when you do this. Not sure this is what Howard was referrin to but I know several guys that do this regularly, sorry these answers are lengthy but I don't know any other way - River


----------



## AbuMike

All good info River. Again to the point with Mullet and Pomps. On the flat beaches up KH way I fish a simi slack line and light weight and hold the rod. Wave washes in slack, wave washes out tight line. Big Mullet and Pomps hit on the wash out and the line just keeps getting tight. This is why I like the sm circles. Both are hooked by the time you feel um...And when you feel um you better be holding on..


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## solid7

There isn't any truth to the notion of big pompano out far, small pompano up close. There are biggies and smallies at all distances. Usually, if you are catching pompano way out, it's because either the tide has changed, or that's where whatever they are feeding on just happens to be at. Or because the surf conditions are more favorable out yonder. (and sometimes, they are just passing thru) Any way, there's no magic to it. They are or they aren't there. But if you limit yourself to just near or just far, you are just robbing yourself of the chance to catch fish.

I've heard all sorts of stuff about how to handle line on the pompano rig. Personally, I have one strategy - 4 oz. of lead, near or far, no belly in the line. (I'm not carrying 6 different kinds of tackle for 1 kind of fish) There really aren't many misses with pompano, because they take small baits, and they "hit and run". If they put it in their mouth, and you've got a circle or Kahle, you've almost always got a fish - slack line or not. They don't gum it, and decide if they really want to bite. That's why self-setting hooks are so effective on them.

I have noticed that when the near bite starts to slow, often times, I pick up a "straggler" or two out far. That tells me that they are moving out. Being that I don't see underwater when I'm standing on the shore, that's just a guess, of course.

That's just my experience. I used to have guys tell me all the time that I was wasting my time casting out far. "They're all right here by the shore", they told me. My first distance catch was about 100 yards out, and weighed in at 4.5 lbs. My biggest pomp was about 6, and he was less than 20 feet from the water line.


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## AbuMike

solid7 said:


> *There isn't any truth to the notion of big pompano out far, small pompano up close.* There are biggies and smallies at all distances. Usually, if you are catching pompano way out, it's because either the tide has changed, or that's where whatever they are feeding on just happens to be at. Or because the surf conditions are more favorable out yonder. (and sometimes, they are just passing thru) Any way, there's no magic to it. They are or they aren't there. But if you limit yourself to just near or just far, you are just robbing yourself of the chance to catch fish.
> 
> I've heard all sorts of stuff about how to handle line on the pompano rig. Personally, I have one strategy - 4 oz. of lead, near or far, no belly in the line. (I'm not carrying 6 different kinds of tackle for 1 kind of fish) There really aren't many misses with pompano, because they take small baits, and they "hit and run". If they put it in their mouth, and you've got a circle or Kahle, you've almost always got a fish - slack line or not. They don't gum it, and decide if they really want to bite. That's why self-setting hooks are so effective on them.
> 
> I have noticed that when the near bite starts to slow, often times, I pick up a "straggler" or two out far. That tells me that they are moving out. Being that I don't see underwater when I'm standing on the shore, that's just a guess, of course.
> 
> *That's just my experience.* I used to have guys tell me all the time that I was wasting my time casting out far. "They're all right here by the shore", they told me. My first distance catch was about 100 yards out, and weighed in at 4.5 lbs. My biggest pomp was about 6, and he was less than 20 feet from the water line.



To start this with the first bold quote......And finish with the second bold quote....You are kinda disputing yourself. By your own admission you don't know our waters or rather "obnoxious beaches" you sure can tell us how, when and where to catch um. There are days when we know where they are big or small.


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## solid7

AbuMike said:


> you sure can tell us how, when and where to catch um. There are days when we know where they are big or small.


Oh, brother....

Isn't that kind of what I was just trying to say, Mike? I basically just said there is no hard or fast rule about big fish being here or there, and you rebut me by telling me this? ("there are days when" = the rules not always the same - which is pretty much EXACTLY what I said)

Sure, I was speaking from my perspective, fishing my own waters. "That's just my experience" is a nice way of saying that there isn't anything magical about the way I fish - and despite the hypebole, I don't really doubt my own experiences anymore than you do yours. If it works for me, it can work for others, too. Your waters certainly are different than ours, but the fish don't change their behavior 100% just because they are in Virginia, or North Carolina, or anywhere else. It's not like we're down here trolling with marshmallows. 

All that nonsense aside, I'm sure that you won't be hard pressed to find people in your own area who have caught big pompano both close to shore, and far off. I know you feel that you had to get your digs at me, though...


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## wdbrand

Flog him somemore. He mought still git up and plow.


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## AbuMike

A dig at you ??? Is that what you got outta that ??? Ok....


----------



## solid7

wdbrand said:


> Flog him somemore. He mought still git up and plow.


Hey RubberBrand... you're a mighty fine troll, but I'm still not convinced that you can actually catch a fish. Still ain't seem them trout yet... I'll be sending something your way, shortly.


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## solid7

AbuMike said:


> A dig at you ??? Is that what you got outta that ??? Ok....


Kinda, yeah. I'm not really that bent about it, though... There's worse $hit talk than that on here everyday.


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## wdbrand

You outta nose semi-liquid 1, you put mosts of dem up. As fer as rather I can cotches a fish or knot, I ain't seed none of yer graveyards. Putem up on facebook. No, make dat, since I isa sho dats yo bestest profile and fits you mo better.


----------



## solid7

wdbrand said:


> You outta nose semi-liquid 1, you put mosts of dem up. As fer as rather I can cotches a fish or knot, I ain't seed none of yer graveyards. Putem up on facebook. No, make dat assbook, since I isa sho dats yo bestest profile and fits you mo better.


This is the time of day when you and I stop having conversations, and you get your "special time" with nurse Ratchet...

Visitin' hours are over.


----------



## surfchunker

opcorn:


----------



## NC KingFisher

surfchunker said:


> opcorn:


And :beer:


----------



## AbuMike

wait for it..... it's gonna happen sooner or later, as it always does......


----------



## greg12345

My experience in south topsail, NC: my 2+ lb pomps have all been out deep, no matter what the tide. The ones I catch in close are 1.5lbs or less usually. I catch more big mullet (+1.5lb) out deep as well, plenty of smaller (but still quality) mullet in close. Hope to retire in florida one day...will be old and not able to cast, can hopefully pull in some 6lb'ers 20 feet out 

Predator is a good cheap pomp rod but not the funnest rod to fish with, need a higher modulus graphite one that doesn't feel like it weighs 20lbs...My arm is about to fall off after reeling in a 4oz sputnik from past the bar with those rods.


----------



## bronzbck1

The Cobia did not want to make a showing this weekend with the Nor Easter blowing so yesterday we decided to fish the River rig short. Found a hole big enough that it had 6 vehicles fishing it. Susan and I threw back any mullet under a pound. The rest on the trucks using various other rigs, dink's or zero. Darn they tasted good. And yes to bigger pomps farther out


----------



## JamesRiverVa

I'm still trying to figure out how to consistently catch pomps, so this thread has been a help to me. That said, as far as distance goes my biggest pomp ever was about 2.5 pounds and I caught it just a very short lob cast from shore - right behind the curl of the wave that breaks on the beach. I've had very little success catching pomps with longer casts, but it may be that I'm not reading the water right and not putting my longer casts where they need to be. Still trying to figure out what it is that I'm seeing out there beyond the first slough and where in all that moving water I'm supposed to cast. I understand the theory of it and the drawings/illustrations but when I'm there on the beach looking at all that moving water every time I think I see something, then it looks totally different with the next set of waves.


----------



## bronzbck1

My best advise is to look at the water at low tide. Keep a picture of the humps and bars in your mind through the changing of the tides. Watch how the water flows on incoming & outgoing tides remembering how the water flows around and over those humps & bars. Over time you will be able to see the conditions to look for in other areas. Of course big pomps can be caught close in, it is how much water is there at that time.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

JamesRiverVa said:


> I'm still trying to figure out how to consistently catch pomps, so this thread has been a help to me. That said, as far as distance goes my biggest pomp ever was about 2.5 pounds and I caught it just a very short lob cast from shore - right behind the curl of the wave that breaks on the beach. I've had very little success catching pomps with longer casts, but it may be that I'm not reading the water right and not putting my longer casts where they need to be. Still trying to figure out what it is that I'm seeing out there beyond the first slough and where in all that moving water I'm supposed to cast. I understand the theory of it and the drawings/illustrations but when I'm there on the beach looking at all that moving water every time I think I see something, then it looks totally different with the next set of waves.


If I were you I would pay more attention to the beach than the water.....Like bronzbck1 mentioned scout at low tide and look at the humps and bars and points. The type of structure "I" fish there will be no water in the slough or "ditch" at low tide. As the tide falls an these humps and bars and points become exposed start following the slough/ditch/channel until you see where the water is turning outward back to the ocean. Sometimes this occurs at a point or sometimes you might see a hump or something on the beach that is turning the water and where that water turns it will most often cut through the sandbar or swashbar.......THIS IS WHERE YOU WANT TO BE and it takes a seasoned eye to spot this stuff at high tide.

When I am searching the flats I can tell immediately when I see something I am looking for becasue the beach is flat and it doesn't take much for you to notice a difference.

First find the slough,ditch,channel at low tide....then follow it until you find the "runout"......as you are scouting look for large signs of "life" bubbling below the surface. I call them protein bubbles because below the sand is just that (PROTEIN) in the form of coquina clams and sandfleas.......Look for the droves of little sandpipers down at waters edge becasue they KNOW WHERE THE PROTEIN LIVES ;-)

Sudsy water is GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD


----------



## DrumintheSuds

Another point I forgot to mention.....

These sloughs and runouts don't have to as big as a football field. The narrower the better IMO and more often than not the places I catch most of my fish are 1 truck holes 2 at the most.....Fish are 1 of 2 things. They are either scavengers or predators and you need to think like them and AMBUSH them. If you see an area where water swirling on a bar or waves crashing on a beach are in constant flux with coquina clams, crabs and sandfleas you KNOW they can't stay buried and fish know this too!


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## solid7

DrumintheSuds said:


> If you see an area where water swirling on a bar or waves crashing on a beach are in constant flux with coquina clams, crabs and sandfleas you KNOW they can't stay buried and fish know this too!


Another good sign is when you come across little rips (opposing waves that collide) that produce patches of soft sand right at the water line - or at least softer than the stuff around it. Where you find heavy and coarse shell and aggregate, this is a no-go. Fleas and little clams don't like that stuff. But where you find narrow patches of sand that you can really sink your toes into, it's a great clue. The softer sand is easy to burrow into, and the action produced by the waves ensures a good food supply for a filter feeder. Often times, this is also the area where you will find fleas by "striking blind". (when they are either out farther than the water line, or buried deeper in the sand - this is often where you may find them hiding)

Reading this again, I might be saying the same thing as Druminthesuds... I'm not sure if we use the terms "slough" and "runout" the same way you do. For me, a runout is a break in a sandbar, (running perpendicular to the shoreline) where a "trough" would be the depression running parallel to a sandbar/shoreline. Are we saying the same or similar?


----------



## DrumintheSuds

solid7 said:


> Another good sign is when you come across little rips (opposing waves that collide) that produce patches of soft sand right at the water line - or at least softer than the stuff around it. Where you find heavy and coarse shell and aggregate, this is a no-go. Fleas and little clams don't like that stuff. But where you find narrow patches of sand that you can really sink your toes into, it's a great clue. The softer sand is easy to burrow into, and the action produced by the waves ensures a good food supply for a filter feeder. Often times, this is also the area where you will find fleas by "striking blind". (when they are either out farther than the water line, or buried deeper in the sand - this is often where you may find them hiding)
> 
> Reading this again, I might be saying the same thing as Druminthesuds... I'm not sure if we use the terms "slough" and "runout" the same way you do. For me, a runout is a break in a sandbar, (running perpendicular to the shoreline) where a "trough" would be the depression running parallel to a sandbar/shoreline. Are we saying the same or similar?


Run-out to me is where the slough water turns 90 degrees back out to water.....same deal as you. Sometimes there is an obvious "cut" through the bar sometimes not. I like the narrow run-outs or cuts. On the flats I refer to the slough as a ditch if it is shallow enough that it holds little to no water at low tide.

I agree about the patches of soft sand. The beach itself is hard and flat where I fish but the swashbar is soft and full of coquina clams and fleas. Many times you will find potholes around these areas and this just helps to chop the water up stirring up the "protein"


----------



## Samblam

mehhhh 

yall beat me to it...

opcorn::beer:


----------



## River

DrumintheSuds, In response to your RiverRig Test and Review - The Mono RiverRig is my second faverite rig and the Wire Broom Rig is a proven rig that has been around for many years and has caught lots of fish, many people still us it for Drum successfully. So for the RiverRig to finish equal to those rigs makes me proud although I believe if you were to fish with the Mono RiverRig vs the Fluoro RiverRig for a great length of time like I did you would see considerable difference in the amount and size of fish caught by the Fluoro RiverRig. I do appreciate the fact that you gave it an honest test but again I'm not at all embarassed by the outcome. Also, your statement on the many things you can do tying RiverRig style is so true, I have been told by right many people now, even a mate on an offshore boat how versatile the RiverRig is and how when tied with larger Mono/Fluoro and hooks, it makes a nice offshore Wreck RiverRig. The previous info given out by Solid7, Bronzbck1 and yourself on reading the surf is outstanding and to all the people trying to learn surf fishing - learning to read the surf is a big piece of the puzzle when it comes to catching fish. When my dog and I first moved here almost 3 years ago we took long walks on the beach and I watched the humps, holes and sloughs at different tides and what the water does when washing over em - of course, I am retired and am on the beach everyday so that helped my surf reading learning curve a great deal. Greg12345, I am aware of sand fleas burying theirself - I believe in water with action the length of the drop keeps the Flea jerked outta the sand but when fishing further out or when the surf is fairly calm - as mentioned earlier, I want my sinker a little loose on the sand where it moves around a little. Another trick to prevent buryin up is hooking two small Sand Fleas back to back, Sand Fleas are a lot like people - they won't work together very often either - Good Stuff on here, Hope this helps people catch fish - River


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## DrumintheSuds

No doubt the rig works River. I think you can make any rig work for you if you tweak it to suit your fishing style and technique. The 3 best mulletheads I have ever known all used a different setup but the 2 things that ALL had in common were sandfleas and placing an importance on keeping the bait on the bottom. 

I have a few friends still fishing through the coming weekend and they are trying the rig out. It should be a great week with the SW winds and the temps warming up so I can't wait to hear what they think. I tied a few up with some "tweaks" so I'm looking forward to hearing about that too.....


----------



## lil red jeep

First time I read a post on this thread was on page 9. I figured, 'What the heck is going on with 9 pages on a thread titled River Rig"? Open up the page and I read post #201 and Solid confirms my suspicions that SkunkKing has been reincarnated. Somewhere along the line he's cleaned up his vocabulary a little bit, but the intent sure seems the same.


----------



## solid7

lil red jeep said:


> Solid confirms my suspicions that SkunkKing has been reincarnated.


You might want to be careful... Things aren't always as they seem.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

A LOT of good information on this thread.....Like River said a newbie could get years worth of education from a thread like this


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## greg12345

Changing from shrimp to live fleas several years ago was the best thing I ever did to put "bigger" pomps/mullet on the table...firm believer in the fleas.


----------



## solid7

If you don't take some fresh shucked or salted clams with you, as well, you might want to give that a try. Put 'em both out at the same time, and use which ever produces the best. I get good results on both, (some days one works better than the other) and quite often, better results on the clams. Keep them cut in bite size pieces - about the size of a medium flea. I get lots of bigguns that way...


----------



## greg12345

oh yeah i ain't discounting the clams for pomps...all the pomps I catch are stuffed full of clams...or oysters and sea urchins for sheepshead...but for me it's about convenience. hit the beach, dig for 5', free bait for the day. no peeling, cutting, salting, shucking, or paying.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

The biggest pomps and black drum I have ever caught were on fresh blue crab.....when we had the unseasonal warm spell back in late march early april I caught nice black drum until my arms fell off on blue crab.....They were right on the beach and I was down to fishing 1 pole at times. I had guys fishing around me willing to pay whatever price I wanted for some of my crab.....lol.

Luckily my fishing partner stocked us up and I had crab coming out of my ears so I traded some crab for peach brandy and good times. One of the most enjoyable trips I ever had!

Where I fish I have several little holes on the backside where I can put crabpots. When we were cleaning the island a few years ago I picked up several pots tha twashed up during storms that were perfectly usable. When I hit the island the first things I do are dig my fleas, mark my holes and lay out my crab pots. My crabbing grounds stay full of water even at low tide so I check them then and rebait. Perfect set-up


----------



## HStew

Salt clams have only worked for me in spring. Crab knuckles a big yes


----------



## DrumintheSuds

And ifn you stumble across some of those small bit size crabs while diggin for fleas you have struck gold. I wander out on the swashbars at low tide with my rake and find them all the time


----------



## solid7

Are you talking about the small sand crabs? (same profile as a blue crab, but brown with white spots)


----------



## AbuMike

solid7 said:


> Are you talking about the small sand crabs? (same profile as a blue crab, but brown with white spots)


them Lady Crabs will catch a lot of things...


----------



## DrumintheSuds

solid7 said:


> Are you talking about the small sand crabs? (same profile as a blue crab, but brown with white spots)


Yup!!!!!

Drum love them too


----------



## solid7

AbuMike said:


> them Lady Crabs will catch a lot of things...


Wasn't sure what a "lady crab" was, so I had to look it up. Not sure I got those down here, (I've never seen one) but the ones I referred to are "speckled crabs", according to this:

http://planetanimalzone.blogspot.com/2012/04/swimming-crabs-types-crab.html

And yeah, they are good bait. Never used them for pomps, but I'd sure give it a go.... Any type of crab that you pull out of the surf doubles as a good Permit bait. (not sure if you get those up north or not)


----------



## narfpoit

Do you guys ever fish with ghost crabs? we catch them at night running around with flashlights and tongs. My kids love it. Didn't know if that would be a good blue crab substitute. I eat every blue crab I catch.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

I mainly target black drum and they love them but every so often a nice pomp will swoop in and take the crab down


----------



## solid7

I tried ghost crabs a few times just to say I had done so.... I caught a Jack Crevalle, but nothing else.

Not sure if one should equate that to success or not.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

Ghost crabs are another great bait because they are soft like softie fleas or peeler crabs. They are hard to come by where I fish and a pain to catch when you see one but very good bait if yo ucan keep them on the hook


----------



## River

Been wantin to try Crabs, they're thick here now and are pickin off our Sandfleas - do ya'll quarter em, half em or fish em whole, somebody told me the other day they use the knuckle in a crab leg and catch lots of pomps, luv something new - DrumintheSuds, clean out your inbox, Thanks - River


----------



## DrumintheSuds

I use knuckles and I quarter them....Inbox cleared


----------



## solid7

DrumintheSuds said:


> Ghost crabs are another great bait because they are soft like softie fleas or peeler crabs. They are hard to come by where I fish and a pain to catch when you see one but very good bait if yo ucan keep them on the hook


Have you tried sucking them out of their holes with a PVC pipe? Maybe a good dual use for yerbyray's beach blowpipe that he was selling awhile back.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

I caught a nice drum one year on a piece of cut bluefish and in his mouth along with the circle hook and cutbait was a big fat blue crab that had been munching on my cutbait.....


----------



## DrumintheSuds

solid7 said:


> Have you tried sucking them out of their holes with a PVC pipe? Maybe a good dual use for yerbyray's beach blowpipe that he was selling awhile back.


If I got caught doing that with the folks I fish with I might as well crawl in the crab hole and hide for eternity....lol


----------



## solid7

DrumintheSuds said:


> I caught a nice drum one year on a piece of cut bluefish and in his mouth along with the circle hook and cutbait was a big fat blue crab that had been munching on my cutbait.....


Crab stuffed drum fillets...


----------



## greg12345

ghost crabs and blue crabs for pomps? i'm sure they work but if you are lazy like me u need to give fiddlers a try instead, way easier to get lots of them, stay alive for weeks with a bucket of moist sand and a hot dog to eat, no prep except for breaking off the big claw, don't hurt as much when they pinch as a blue crab. pop it onto a #2 to 2/0 circle and fish it just like a flea.

river - u sure it is crabs picking your fleas apart? small baitfish and pins will eat the legs off and nibble away the insides all day as well. when my rig comes back with picked apart fleas i either give up the pomp fishing, or if i want to stick with the pomps- switch to fiddlers (not as likely to get picked apart in my experience), or put on BW fishbites or orange clam fishbites.


----------



## NC KingFisher

solid7 said:


> I tried ghost crabs a few times just to say I had done so.... I caught a Jack Crevalle, but nothing else.
> 
> Not sure if one should equate that to success or not.


Heck yea, send it my way for guppie bait


----------



## NC KingFisher

Crabs make good cobia bait to.


----------



## Cdog

greg12345 said:


> ghost crabs and blue crabs for pomps? i'm sure they work but if you are lazy like me u need to give fiddlers a try instead, way easier to get lots of them, stay alive for weeks with a bucket of moist sand and a hot dog to eat, no prep except for breaking off the big claw, don't hurt as much when they pinch as a blue crab. pop it onto a #2 to 2/0 circle and fish it just like a flea.
> 
> river - u sure it is crabs picking your fleas apart? small baitfish and pins will eat the legs off and nibble away the insides all day as well. when my rig comes back with picked apart fleas i either give up the pomp fishing, or if i want to stick with the pomps- switch to fiddlers (not as likely to get picked apart in my experience), or put on BW fishbites or orange clam fishbites.


When I was down a couple weeks ago we were bringing in bare hooks with a couple of calico crabs that had got tangled up while stealing bait. Fleas, mullet,shrimp and even BWFB were getting stripped in 5 minutes of casting out.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

Cdog said:


> When I was down a couple weeks ago we were bringing in bare hooks with a couple of calico crabs that had got tangled up while stealing bait. Fleas, mullet,shrimp and even BWFB were getting stripped in 5 minutes of casting out.


I have seen this on occassion and if I look up towards the high tide line and don't see crab carcases it tells me all I need to know......NO FISH OUT THERE FEEDING ON THEM. Sometimes you can move down the beach and all is Ok. Sometimes it's like that everywhere.

Now if there are signs of fish feeding on these bait stealers it's time to start hoarding the bait stealers


----------



## DrumintheSuds

NC KingFisher said:


> Crabs make good cobia bait to.


YES.....Yes they do!


----------



## solid7

NC KingFisher said:


> Heck yea, send it my way for guppie bait


When the sea provides you a freebie, you gotta take advantage. I can assure you - even though I can't remember specifically - that jack got cut. Those are one of my absolute favorite cut baits. They are bluefish candy.


----------



## lfunk11

so can I use any crab I find on the beach without size limitations? I always thought about it, but did't want to get fined for cutting up some protected species. If i were to catch a bunch of ghost crabs can i just put them in a big bucket with some sand and they will last until the morning? My kids would like catching them and I like free bait.


----------



## solid7

If you want free bait that keeps easy, go for the fiddlers. Beach crabs are too hard to acquire reliably on the beach.

A fiddler is easy - just take a trip to any salt marsh, mud flat, brackish stream, etc. In the surrounding banks and low-lying areas, you locate the fiddlers - easy to do, they scatter like flies when they see you. So you dig a hole big enough to bury a shiny metal bowl, with the top even with the ground level. At the bottom, drop in a chicken leg, piece of fish, hot dog, etc. Then go somewhere else for awhile. (maybe even to lay a few more traps) Come back in a bit, and the bowl will contain fiddlers. You just gotta have a bowl that's deep and slick enough for them to not be able to climb out of.

Fiddlers are also A #1 bait for sheephead.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

lfunk11 said:


> so can I use any crab I find on the beach without size limitations? I always thought about it, but did't want to get fined for cutting up some protected species. If i were to catch a bunch of ghost crabs can i just put them in a big bucket with some sand and they will last until the morning? My kids would like catching them and I like free bait.


Blue crab have a size limit.....I have been checked.


----------



## surfchunker

solid7 said:


> If you want free bait that keeps easy, go for the fiddlers. Beach crabs are too hard to acquire reliably on the beach.
> 
> A fiddler is easy - just take a trip to any salt marsh, mud flat, brackish stream, etc. In the surrounding banks and low-lying areas, you locate the fiddlers - easy to do, they scatter like flies when they see you. So you dig a hole big enough to bury a shiny metal bowl, with the top even with the ground level. At the bottom, drop in a chicken leg, piece of fish, hot dog, etc. Then go somewhere else for awhile. (maybe even to lay a few more traps) Come back in a bit, and the bowl will contain fiddlers. You just gotta have a bowl that's deep and slick enough for them to not be able to climb out of.
> 
> Fiddlers are also A #1 bait for sheephead.


that there is some good info


----------



## surfchunker

man there is alot of good info on thread, years ago I was the one that suggested to Flea about starting the Bible, but my idea was for someone to go thru the thread and rewrite it in a condensed version and this is one of those prime threads 11 pages but probably could be condensed down to a page or less and would be awesome


----------



## solid7

surfchunker said:


> man there is alot of good info on thread, years ago I was the one that suggested to Flea about starting the Bible, but my idea was for someone to go thru the thread and rewrite it in a condensed version and this is one of those prime threads 11 pages but probably could be condensed down to a page or less and would be awesome


In my line of work, when you make such a good suggestion, you automatically get yourself an "action item".


----------



## surfchunker

solid7 said:


> In my line of work, when you make such a good suggestion, you automatically get yourself an "action item".


I could do one ... but you also seem to have a lot of idle time on your hands and there are alot of threads in the bible that could be given the Readers Digest treatment


----------



## DrumintheSuds

surfchunker said:


> man there is alot of good info on thread, years ago I was the one that suggested to Flea about starting the Bible, but my idea was for someone to go thru the thread and rewrite it in a condensed version and this is one of those prime threads 11 pages but probably could be condensed down to a page or less and would be awesome


This thread has been all over the place....from rigs to reading water to lord knows what else.

Lots of knowledge in it though


----------



## DrumintheSuds

I thought about doing a blog at one time about my techniques and strategies but never got around to doing it


----------



## solid7

surfchunker said:


> I could do one ... but you also seem to have a lot of idle time on your hands and there are alot of threads in the bible that could be given the Readers Digest treatment


Maybe you haven't noticed, but I'm not real good with the "Reader's Digest" version.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

Getting back to the topic of the riverrig my fishing buds are tearing the fish up with the tricked out version I tied for them before I left Sunday!!!!!!!


----------



## narfpoit

DrumintheSuds said:


> Blue crab have a size limit.....I have been checked.


Do you keep the carapace whole in case you get checked with some cut up crab quarters?


----------



## DrumintheSuds

narfpoit said:


> Do you keep the carapace whole in case you get checked with some cut up crab quarters?


Never run across that but I keep them whole until I get ready to re-bait......If I only have enough crab to fit in my baitbox it's no biggie. They never check that box. But sometimes I bring a big cooler full if I have friends down that want some and that cooler has been checked before


----------



## surfchunker

solid7 said:


> Maybe you haven't noticed, but I'm not real good with the "Reader's Digest" version.


It would be good therapy for you


----------



## NC KingFisher

Well im just gonna say it.....TO THE BIBLE


----------



## Garboman

You fellas sure like to compliment each other, I will condense this thread into a smaller piece for ease of use

Step one Buy a River Rig (might as well buy a half dozen and send me one so I will know what they look like)

Step two buy some Fluorocarbon leader material and decent hooks

Step three copy the River Rig (Do not let River catch you, do it on the down low)

Step four go fishing

If your version does not out fish the original River Rig

Go back to Step one and quit being so cheap


----------



## AbuMike

garboman said:


> you fellas sure like to compliment each other, i will condense this thread into a smaller piece for ease of use
> 
> step one buy a river rig (might as well buy a half dozen and send me one so i will know what they look like)
> 
> step two buy some fluorocarbon leader material and decent hooks
> 
> step three copy the river rig (do not let river catch you, do it on the down low)
> 
> step four go fishing
> 
> *if your version does not out fish the original river rig
> 
> go back to step one and quit being so cheap*


lmao......


----------



## markedwards

can someone refresh my memory what exactly are crab knuckles?


----------



## NC KingFisher

Dem joints in der legs


----------



## markedwards

NC KingFisher said:


> Dem joints in der legs


all of them? i was thinking the the claws

by the way thanks


----------



## NC KingFisher

The claws make good sheepshead bait though


----------



## BubbaHoTep

AbuMike said:


> lmao......


+1

-----

I was just saying to Shooter the other day that thread has some GREAT information in it. If a couple of other mods look at it and agree it's "Bible-worthy," I will volunteer to close it for a bit and to combine/cut some of the posts and move it over there. 

I don't really know how the "Bible it" thing goes, since I'm the new mod on the block and have never done that before. I'll do it, though, if I get the "thumbs-up" from some of the others. No problem at all.


----------



## surfchunker

that would be a great improvement ... I wouldn't mind to help I'm recently retire but have no aurthority ... But I did get Flea to start the bible ... a catfish forum I went on used to do that, have somebody rewrite it then post it, alot of info in this one ... I love the tip for catching crabs with the bowl Idea ... learned alot about rods and rod angles to keep the bait on the bottom, rig's, finding the right structure 




BubbaHoTep said:


> +1
> 
> -----
> 
> I was just saying to Shooter the other day that thread has some GREAT information in it. If a couple of other mods look at it and agree it's "Bible-worthy," I will volunteer to close it for a bit and to combine/cut some of the posts and move it over there.
> 
> I don't really know how the "Bible it" thing goes, since I'm the new mod on the block and have never done that before. I'll do it, though, if I get the "thumbs-up" from some of the others. No problem at all.


----------



## surfchunker

even deleting useless or duplicate posts will help alot


----------



## JamesRiverVa

I've seen advice in this thread re. low-spiking. Until reading that, I had always assumed the higher the better applied, to keep the line above the breaking waves.

I think I follow the idea that spiking the rod lower makes it more likely that the bait in a typical bottom rig will remain right on the bottom. Can someone give a rough rule of thumb re. what situations/species you want to have your rod spiked high vs. when it's better to have it spiked low?


----------



## DrumintheSuds

James

In some cases it is better to be higher. You tend to see longer rods and longer spikes angled higher in places where you have to fish further out to get to the fish (like Florida). This helps to prevent the bottom rig from washing around by keeping it above the waves

I prefer to low spike because I fish in close the majority of the time and I accomplish the same objective by going under the wave. The steelhead rods I prefer have a lot of give in them and this allows me to hold bottom with a lighter sinker as well. If you ever watch that old timer that fishes with you and doesn't BS a lot because he is too busy cathing fish he many times will hold his rod. And he holds it low for a reason.......some folks will also leave a little slack in the line. If I am holding good I will tighten up and many times when the fish picks the bait up you will see the line go slack before the circle hook sets in (you have to be paying attention though). I can only go but so heavy on the sinker with my steelhead rods so if it is moving around a bit so will the rod. If this is occuring I might leave a little belly in the line and if the current is pushing the limits but fish are there I will go to just 1 rod and hold it.


----------



## solid7

DrumintheSuds said:


> You tend to see longer rods and longer spikes angled higher in places where you have to fish further out to get to the fish (like Florida).


I see you guys fishing out farther than we do. But hey, it's a big state. LOL


----------



## DrumintheSuds

solid7 said:


> I see you guys fishing out farther than we do. But hey, it's a big state. LOL


In some areas YES.....Fortunately I don't have to often which is a good thing.


----------



## bronzbck1

solid7 said:


> I see you guys fishing out farther than we do. But hey, it's a big state. LOL


That is because 80% of the fisherman over cast the fish.


----------



## AbuMike

bronzbck1 said:


> That is because 80% of the fisherman over cast the fish.


+1.....just because you can don't mean you need to.....


----------



## Charlie2

This thread has wandered all over the place providing some good advice on surf fishing from some very knowledgeable people. It started with River Rigs; so here's my input on my version. 

I would like to sit down with River and show him what I use with jigs. I think that we're on the same page. C2


----------



## River

Charlie2, Would be glad to talk with you but - it's a long way to Fla from NC, if you're ever up this way - stop in at Teachs Lair Marina, I work Fridays and Saturdays in the back section "The Roost Tackle Shop" - and I do have a RiverJigRig that I use for Flounder, naturally its tied RiverRig style with Fluorocarbon and my faverite Jigheads - Thanks, River


----------



## AbuMike

River, you ever used any of that Yozuri Pink flouro ??


----------



## River

Yes AbuMike, I have and still have several rolls of it, it's OK I think - but I've not tested it enough, probably because I have a psycological problem with it because its pink. I'm a little too touchy about the things I fish with and how I fish sometimes, to the point - if I'm not catchin fish, I may change out my oldest Rig to see if the Fluorocarbon is scuffed from rollin in the sand, if that freshly tied Rig catches the next fish, I'll change em all - River


----------



## AbuMike

I use it for my leader with braid on my Trout reels. Have had good luck with it. You are right though, when it looks scuffed I change it out.


----------



## bronzbck1

I've used it on sweet water trout the 4# size. They like pink. Works good


----------



## dudeondacouch

Just tied up some standard drop rigs.

They're tied with the same hooks and same line. #1 Mustad Ultra Point Demon Circle 1X Fine Wire #39954BLN, and Seaguar Blue Label. Same length drops as well.

I'm going to pit them against each other and see which catches the most fish, then clean and eat the fish. The results of my experiment will be delicious.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

I had a couple of friends who took and extended stay all last week and I tied them up some of these rigs before I left to get some feedback. I tied them up with pink ande line and eagle claw 2/0 and 3/0 circle hooks and they did very well on the sea mullet and black drum. Even caught some nice pomps wednesday-yesterday......to be honest these guys are seasoned anglers who know their water so they would have caught fish either way but they liked the rig and like me they still have some questions.

I want to test it when the water is abnormally clear or the fish seem to be spookish but I know they are there and should be feeding. When I have that opportunity this summer (and I will) it will be the true test in my mind.

There were several pups caught as well on the hi-lo slider rigs I tied up. I love that rig for puppy drum!


----------



## solid7

bronzbck1 said:


> That is because 80% of the fisherman over cast the fish.


It's also because everyone who thinks of Florida seems to picture the long flat beaches like the ones around Jacksonville or New Smyrna.

Beaches south of Cocoa Beach start looking (consistently) very different. Most fish around here are caught within 30-40 yards of shore. (and maybe closer) But because our structure is so close, long casts here are also very effective, even if one is just throwing blind.


----------



## RocknReds

River: I have always stood a few paces back form the water (especially in clear water) so the fish don't see me. I cast and reel in my fish from this spot. I also throw longer near a group of people becase of all the boot and sinker noise. Some people have really gotten on my cage about this. Wat's your and the boards opion?


----------



## AbuMike

RocknReds said:


> River: I have always stood a few paces back form the water (especially in clear water) so the fish don't see me. I cast and reel in my fish from this spot. I also throw longer near a group of people becase of all the boot and sinker noise. Some people have really gotten on my cage about this. Wat's your and the boards opion?


do the same thing in gin clear water conditions.


----------



## lfunk11

I bought a river rig on Sunday when we go down here and I am not even sure I am using it right, but it worked. I caught 4-5 flounder and 2 mullets on it - one was pretty big. I put a normal pompano rig on my mom's rod and she only caught one small fish. We were using the same bait and I was casting her rod for her so the bait was generally going in the same spot. Now she wants one  I do have a question though - I assume the sinker is supposed to be on some sort of leader attached to one of the loops? I just put it right on the loop, but it seems as though that put it too close to the bait. Oh well, caught some fish so I was happy.


----------



## cobia man

LOL I haven't logged in on this board in a very long time but read this thread and decided to answer the question about Chip Stevens rig. I was on Ocracoke a few years back with a friend (hammer). I was in Tradewinds tackle shop and spotted the joe moore rig and asked Alan about it. He said Chip Stevens used them a lot and had success with them. I am a tackle ho so I bought one and went to south point and fished the washing machine. Caught pups till my arm was sore. People asked me what I was using and I replied "a Chip Stevens rig". I was just joking about it but it took hold I guess. Yes, it is just a bottom rig but I like them and use them when I am too lazy to tie my on. Besides, when one has confidence in their tackle, I think it makes fishing more productive. Kinda funny I think the reason I was fishing for pups that day is my new heaver that Red Drum Tackle had just built for me malfunctioned. The tip wasn't glued properly and flew off on first cast. I think some dude named JAM built it. lmao


----------



## cobia man

PS River, I dont remember seeing your rigs in Reel Outdoors on Emerald Isle. I think they would sell great in Greg's store.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

Love that chip stevens rig! Does well on the puppy drum!


----------



## arich_5

I ordered 2 River Rigs on Monday. One with orange beads, one naked. Gonna try them out next week on Cherry Grove Pier. Anyone used them on a pier yet? I'll let u know how mine do.


----------



## JAM

*If that were the Case that would be the First Tip to come LOOSE on me.. What year was*



cobia man said:


> LOL I haven't logged in on this board in a very long time but read this thread and decided to answer the question about Chip Stevens rig. I was on Ocracoke a few years back with a friend (hammer). I was in Tradewinds tackle shop and spotted the joe moore rig and asked Alan about it. He said Chip Stevens used them a lot and had success with them. I am a tackle ho so I bought one and went to south point and fished the washing machine. Caught pups till my arm was sore. People asked me what I was using and I replied "a Chip Stevens rig". I was just joking about it but it took hold I guess. Yes, it is just a bottom rig but I like them and use them when I am too lazy to tie my on. Besides, when one has confidence in their tackle, I think it makes fishing more productive. Kinda funny I think the reason I was fishing for pups that day is my new heaver that Red Drum Tackle had just built for me malfunctioned. The tip wasn't glued properly and flew off on first cast. I think some dude named JAM built it. lmao


What Year was that??? 

JAM


----------



## cobia man

Can't remember the year but Hammer was leaving Ocoke and going out the top so he carried it by and you fixed it. I still have it and another that you built.


----------



## River

lfunk11, it sounds like you attached the sinker correctly, the short loop attaches to your main line, the long loop goes through the eye of the sinker and loops on - glad you caught fish. RocknReds, I am very cautious of movement if the waters real clear, especially when fishing steep beaches, I'm also somewhat cautious of where I park my truck because reflections from the sun can spook fish. Not sure about Boot and sinker but assume you're talkin noise - In my opinion, loud noise spooks fish especially if its pounding on the sand - it makes me cringe every time someone drives their Rod Spikes in with a hammer - I usually take the dog for a long walk down the beach when that happens. arich_5, I have used the RiverRig off Avon Pier and it works fine. Cobia Man, Would love to see the RiverRigs in Tackle Shops all around Morehead especially the shops at Emerald Isle where I used to do some fishin, I am planning a trip down that way this summer. But for now, any Tackle Shop that would like to carry RiverRigs and there are several different styles, needs to contact - Joe Moore at [email protected], he'll ship em to you - Thanks Much, River


----------



## RocknReds

River: The pounding of spikes into the sand drives me bananas. Decades ago I was fishing up by the civil war lighthouse base with Bob Benard and he chalenged me to swim out to the bar and put my ear on the bottom. I did and I could hear the noise created by the truck. He swore the fish could hear you run to the spike. His motto was walk, not run.


----------



## solid7

I think that's a little over the top. Even if there was any truth to that notion, (that driving a spike scares the fish - which I doubt very seriously that there is) most types of fish will return to a spot over and over again after the initial "scare" is past, which is often a matter of minutes. Even the spookiest varieties. They'll go where food is at, even at their own peril. That's just what fish do. Any recreational diver can tell you this.


----------



## BlueWater

Holy cow...after about an hour (off an on to give my noggin a break) ive finally reached the end an by "end" i mean till the next time someone else comments cause i dont see this thread coming to a stop anytime soon. Bible worthy for sure after being condensed of course. Now its time to go back through an re-cap with a pen an pad. Alot of info about pomps in here, which i plan on making one of my targeted species considering im a East Coast Florida fisher. Granted we have several species that will be great to fish for but how can you pass up the info on this thread an not want to target them!


----------



## DrumintheSuds

I don't know about the spike thing because I don't pound mine into the ground but I sometimes use my truck vibrations down by the water to spook em up in the flats. Pomps will often jump out of the water.......You give em a few minutes and they come right back up on the bar to feed.


----------



## greg12345

DiTS: what is your slider hi-low rig? curious...


----------



## DrumintheSuds

greg12345 said:


> DiTS: what is your slider hi-low rig? curious...


They call it the "Chip Stevens" rig......You can probably goog le it and get a picture of it. It's an awesome rig for red drum


----------



## RocknReds

Last tip: Take a bunch of sand fleas and smash them up. Chum with them.


----------



## OBX Jay

RocknReds said:


> Last tip: Take a bunch of sand fleas and smash them up. Chum with them.


Glad that was the Last tip


----------



## HStew

Last, last tip....if you are in a boat, throw the chum over the right side of the boat. (that's where the fish are!!)


----------



## surfchunker

last, last, last tip ... if you gotta crap on the beach don't wipe with fiberglass insulation


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## NC KingFisher

surfchunker said:


> last, last, last tip ... if you gotta crap on the beach don't wipe with fiberglass insulation


And go in a plover nest.nthat is the last tip


----------



## NC KingFisher

surfchunker said:


> last, last, last tip ... if you gotta crap on the beach don't wipe with fiberglass insulation


And go in a plover nest.nthat is the last tip


----------



## yerbyray

River Rig Review---Mine arrived in the mail Saturday so I stuck them in the cargo pocket of my shorts and later in the day my buddy and I stopped by a place for wings and a cold beer. Man the waitresses were all over me. They were smiling, flipping their hair, prancing around me like never before. Heck one of them got a hula-hoop off the wall and showed off for me.

I've eaten my fair share of wings and drank plenty of beer; but this was unreal. They would come over and chat with us. Sit down and really make small talk. These were younger hotties too and they must follow the same trends as they were all wearing tight white tight t-shirts with an owl on it and orange shorts.

It has to be the River Rig as this has never happened before. I can't wait to take it fishing.


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## River

yerbyray - I have never experience that type situation, you must have ordered the ones with pink beads - the ladys luv em and they work, River


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## solid7

River said:


> yerbyray - I have never experience that type situation, you must have ordered the ones with pink beads - the ladys luv em and they work, River


Oh yeah, I've seen those... The beads are about 3/4" around, and there are 5 or 6 of 'em on the "snood"...


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## River

Solid7 - Nope, only one little 6MM pink bead - it's what I call the SusanOBX version - River


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## DrumintheSuds

Pink is a surprisingly good color. My buds did well 2 weeks ago with the green bead on the sea mullet. I'm going down next week for 5 days in what will be more "summer like" fishing conditions so I should be able to judge the fluoro version better if calm/clear water shows up.

As of now I prefer no bead or a green bead or orange bead and pink ANDE


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## DrumintheSuds

Might have to try the SusanOBX version. I hear tells that lady is a mullet and pomp catching machine!


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## Fish'n Phil

Delightfully tacky yet unrefined...


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## dudeondacouch

I can't cast very far, but I make up for it by not being able to read the water either.


----------



## River

dudeondacouch - you make a very good point, it looks as though this RiverRig thread is just about over and rightfully so but I do have a couple more things that I'd like to say. About 75% of the tackle shops on this island carry RiverRigs, the one that don't are condemning One More Cast Distributers and myself for releasing a secret that according to them, they've known about for years but refused to tell the public for the following reasons:
1. It'll damage the sale of Mono production Rigs -
2. To many fish will be caught damaging the resource and sport -
3. What will all the good fisherman and Pro's do now that the power of fluorocarbon has been released, they won't have the edge in tournaments anymore -
My responce to these naysayers are, for the first time a young boy or girl from Ohio, West Virginia, Tennesee, etc. can walk into one of the tackle shops that sells the RiverRig and buy a professional hand tied tournament worthy Rig, even though, as dudeondacouch says - they can't cast very far or read the water but now they stand a very good chance of catching fish. Many stories have been told to me over the last month or so of young boys and girls walking into these tackle shops with a big smile on their face and a Citation fish in their hand after buying a RiverRig, I hope many many more do this in the future. Folks, we can talk saving our wonderful sport all we want but its the younger generation that controls our fishing destiny. Hopefully the RiverRig will play at least a small part in helping our younger generation want to fish and keep on fishing. If it does, it'll make a couple old men smile - thats what its all about folks, our children and future generations. Thanks for all the input, hope to see you around - Oh, by the way - the Flounder/Fluke RiverRig has just been released, Thanks again - River and One More Cast Distributers


----------



## biggestsquid

River,

When I was introduced to you by a mutual friend, in whose judgement I have a great deal of trust, I was told you are a good dude. Later, while shooting the breeze at the point I figured you are a knowledgable fisherman and determined that we had some friends from Davidson County in common. As I am moving to Bath this year and will be spending a great deal of time at our Salvo cottage in the future I plan to learn a lot about fishing from folks like you and Jam ---- but as I read this thread I can't help but be struck by the realization that, along with being a proficient fisherman, you may be one of the best salesmen I have encountered.

That's not a shallow compliment River, I've been in sales for 40 years and know the power of knowledge combined with quiet confidence. I'm ashamed to say that I'm not much for the pomp or king fishin (that can change) but must tell you that I have this NEED to buy some RiverRigs at present!

I'll be semi-retired by fall drum season. My remaining work will be mostly consultation --- sales training. We may need to have a chat about some techniques --- perhaps after a therapy session at the Yak Shack.

Cheers and good luck --- hope you sell a million River Rigs. If you need any help introducing them to NJ I'll be happy to lend a hand but it needs to be soon.


----------



## AbuMike

Your gonna love it in Bath. Some fantastic fishing spots all over that area. The flatties, pups and specks are off the hook in the fall right there...I have stomped them grounds many times. Get you a yak and explore Bath Creek around the bridge, you will be glad you did...


----------



## NTKG

River said:


> Solid7 - Nope, only one little 6MM pink bead - it's what I call the SusanOBX version - River


i feel shamefull, young, dirty for getting that joke. i feel shameful, old and dirty for solid for making that joke. Solid you bast---- you owe me a new tshirt and desk calender due to spit up coffee

i like river rigs too, but i like my version of pomp fishing better. Much easier, and I use mono. Find old ladies fishing catching nice pomps. Walk over and throw a 12ft net a few times. ALWAYS catches fish.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

I like the rig but as was the case when I tested it the purchased riverrig caught no more fish than the pink ande version I tied up. If there is any advantage to a fluoro tied rig it's due to the fact that fluoro sinks better than mono due to the material makeup of it and that allows you to keep your bait on the bottom. I don't buy into the invisible to fish catches more fish claims......with that being said there are lots of things you can do to get your bait on the bottom.


----------



## solid7

biggestsquid said:


> I can't help but be struck by the realization that, along with being a proficient fisherman, you may be one of the best salesmen I have encountered.


I think that is what most people have taken away from this thread, indeed. That's no offense intended to River, but I'm a little surprised that some of the same fellas that go along with the idea that River Rigs are somehow magical, will also be the first to tell others that fishing "ain't rocket science". 



biggestsquid said:


> I'm ashamed to say that I'm not much for the pomp or king fishin (that can change) but must tell you that I have this NEED to buy some RiverRigs at present!


Doe that mean that you will be putting all of your time/effort/money into rigs, rather than actual fishing knowledge?

You gotta have a rig to catch fish, but after finally seeing the River Rig, and realizing what it is, this whole topic just became a whole lot of "MEH". It's an ancient rig with a new twist. It catches fish, sure. Better than others? Debatable.

It sure might be fun to have a large scale fish-off, though, to settle. Not saying it would, but since fellas are gonna argue about it, anyway, might as well make sport of it... (that's a marketing ploy, by the way - use at your own risk)


----------



## solid7

NTKG said:


> i feel shamefull, young, dirty for getting that joke. i feel shameful, old and dirty for solid for making that joke. Solid you bast---- you owe me a new tshirt and desk calender due to spit up coffee


Seriously? I mean, you're a young guy. WTH are you doing with a _desk calendar_?


----------



## AbuMike

And.......no one had any expert opinions on the river rig till you bought some and then started to pick it apart....agree with the previous post, hope you sell a million of them.........people picked apart automobiles when they first hit the streets also.....


----------



## RuddeDogg

I for one have never heard of this rig. I like to try new things. Don't really care what it's made of or where it works best. Obvioulsy, after read 14 pages it does work.So...my question is, can anyone tell me where to get them? A tackleshop website perhaps? Thank you.


----------



## solid7

AbuMike said:


> And.......no one had any expert opinions on the river rig till you bought some and then started to pick it apart....agree with the previous post, hope you sell a million of them.........people picked apart automobiles when they first hit the streets also.....


Well, as you always so readily point out, "experts know best". Course, that cuts both ways, doesn't it? 

When claims are made, so are challenges to those claims. That's how it works. Apparently you can't be both a a friend and a skeptic.


----------



## Mark H.

http://www.teachslair.com/ships-store

http://shop.fishtradewinds.com/product-list/fishing-accessories-terminal-tackle-1371/rigs-1396/

http://friscorodandgun.com/product-...es-terminal-tackle-2861/rigs-2886/?rb_br=1484


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## RuddeDogg

Thanks Mark I appreciate it. Turns out that is similar to the spot and kingfish rigs we use up here.


----------



## biggestsquid

solid7 said:


> I think that is what most people have taken away from this thread, indeed. That's no offense intended to River, but I'm a little surprised that some of the same fellas that go along with the idea that River Rigs are somehow magical, will also be the first to tell others that fishing "ain't rocket science".
> 
> 
> 
> Doe that mean that you will be putting all of your time/effort/money into rigs, rather than actual fishing knowledge?
> 
> You gotta have a rig to catch fish, but after finally seeing the River Rig, and realizing what it is, this whole topic just became a whole lot of "MEH". It's an ancient rig with a new twist. It catches fish, sure. Better than others? Debatable.
> 
> It sure might be fun to have a large scale fish-off, though, to settle. Not saying it would, but since fellas are gonna argue about it, anyway, might as well make sport of it... (that's a marketing ploy, by the way - use at your own risk)


My fishing is currently limited to 30-50 trips a year --- but soon to change on the plus side. I should add that I generally spent a MINIMUM of two tides, usually three, and on occassion two plus solid days on the beach when I do go fishing. I also put quite a bit of time/money into gear and tackle --- it is my morphine. What I said about not fishing pomps and kings is that I am an elephant hunter. I know that doesn't garner much respect from you guys who are all around fishermen --- but if it doesn't give good pullage I'm not too excited about catching it. That also could change as I know that many of those little critters are great eating and I'll soon be on a fixed income!!


----------



## RuddeDogg

I think what is interesting here is how some of these rigs that we all use are similar if not identical but named different. I think that it's also interesting that these rigs can be adapted to the areas that you fish. For example, the surf rigs I use up here are similar to the fish finder rigs and drum rigs you guys use with the exception of me not using a Macmahon swivel. my rigs range in size from 5/0 to 10/0 depending where and what I am fishing for.


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## DrumintheSuds

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/seastriker_2218_155578028

This is pretty much what the riverrig looks like. Take the hardware off and reverse the traces to where the shorter trace is on the top and the longer trace is on the bottom. The riverrig is tied with fluoro. I copied this seastriker version years ago and it is a great rig. The debate to me isn't whether or not it catches fish.....The debate is whether or not fluoro is that much better than mono which I disagree with. I am going back down this thursday and I'm gonna fish mono versus fluoro again


----------



## dudeondacouch

I'm always on board with innovation, but I just don't see how swapping the lower hook trace and the weight loop could change the presentation enough to see a difference in hits.

If you want a "more natural" presentation, just make your lower drop longer.


----------



## surfchunker

so what lb test would one use to tie a rig ?


----------



## dudeondacouch

20-40lb is normal.


----------



## solid7

surfchunker said:


> so what lb test would one use to tie a rig ?


I think that this is the primary advantage of fluoro... You can tie heavier fluoro with less issues of visibility. Of course, just because you can, doesn't mean that you have to, or should. I think part of this really depends on where you are fishing the rig. 

I normally tie my close up rigs with 15-20 lb. fluoro. I don't know if you guys heave your River Rigs, but if you needed to put it out there, think shock leader poundage, and fluoro it accordingly.


----------



## surfchunker

I was mostly thinking about the snelling of small hooks and line dia. in doing so ...


----------



## dudeondacouch

If you're attaching hooks directly to dropper loops, the line diameter definitely comes into play. But for cutting the loops and snelling the hooks on, I've never run into a hook eye that was too small for the line I wanted to use. Lighter than 20lb can be difficult to snell onto small hooks simply because it's tough to handle/see.


----------



## surfchunker

how about snelling a hook on each end then tying two surgeons loops in the middle


----------



## DrumintheSuds

The longer trace next to the weight loop does make a difference IMO and you will catch most of your fish on the lower trace. Lighter leader helps with presentation as well as helping to keep the bait on the bottom and fluoro sinks so that helps even more. I fish mostly shallow water so it's very important for me to get and keep the bait on the bottom which is why I like using wire boom rigs. The wire boom keeps both baits down, minimizes tangles with the main line and allows me to use longer traces. I can accomplish exactly what I want with either the wire boom rig or a version of the riverrig......


----------



## dudeondacouch

I fish in close as well most of the time, and I've never noticed the bottom trace catching any more fish than the other(s). Next time you throw a rig out and tighten up, walk over to the side of your rod and look at the angle of the line in relation to the angle of the beach slope, then account for sag. I think you'll see that your rig is actually a lot closer to parallel to the bottom than you might assume.

Unless your traces are VERY short (or individually weighted/floated), the movement of the water is going to determine how far off the bottom they are, not what kind of line you use or where you tie them in relation to the weight/swivel. Yes, fluoro _technically_ has a faster sink rate, but there's no way it's going to benefit you in that regard unless you're bottom fishing in a lot of water. I would say that even wire boom traces will not sit on the bottom any better than straight mono other than possibly in a very calm slough at slack tide.


----------



## solid7

surfchunker said:


> I was mostly thinking about the snelling of small hooks and line dia. in doing so ...


I like to snell all of my hooks eyeless, so that pretty much eliminates any problem with line size.


----------



## Phaedrus

River- thanks for the education even more than the rig!!! We killed it with the rig in Litchfield. Best day my son and I have ever had fishing. In addition to catching a 14.5 inch mullet, my son also caught a small bonnethead on it. We caught countless mullet and pinfish in the span of about three hours with it. We also caught an oyster toad and a small blue with it. I gave one to a friend that thanked me with a text saying that he caught 24 mullet in an hour with it in corolla.

The best catch was that we took a pinfish that we caught with the rig and landed a five and a half foot blacktip with it!


----------



## surfchunker

what about the Yo-Zuri Fluorocarbon Pink Tinted opcorn:


----------



## TarheelFXR

wdbrand, HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## TarheelFXR

Well, well, well I ran outa beer reading this post. I haven't posted here but recognize many folks here and will be back. This is a most informative and shall I say also very entertaining thread. 

My Grandparents lived on the beach and my Grandmother loved to catch pomps because she loved to eat them and always swore that they lurked just behind the bar and she used fleas on hand tied single hook rigs. She apparently was right.

T


----------



## solid7

TarheelFXR said:


> wdbrand, HAHAHAHAHA


Speaking of which, somebody better make a wellness check on WD. The old fart hasn't checked in for way too long.

BtW - don't assume he's kicked the bucket if you smell something when you approach his door. That's normal. You're gonna have to bear it, and break down the door, and just get ready for whatever is on the other side.


----------



## BlueWater

surfchunker said:


> what about the Yo-Zuri Fluorocarbon Pink Tinted opcorn:


This is the only fluoro ive ever used...seems to work the best for me. An like solid7 said your able to go heavier in line considering its much clearer. I tie my pomp rigs with 30lb an 20lb for hooks snelled.


----------



## solid7

I haven't used the Yo-zuri pink long enough yet to say that there is a difference. It's just the beginning of summer fishing, and gin clear water, so it's too early to tell for me. However, the Yo-zuri already has one DISTINCT advantage over my usual fluoro - and that is $. It's cheaper than just about every brand the shop carries, so I said what the heck... (as of right now, it isn't distinctly any worse than what I've been using)

It isn't cheaper than the so-called "castable fluoro" that you buy in the bass fishing section, but I don't think much of that stuff.


----------



## flathead

> Speaking of which, somebody better make a wellness check on WD.


In the process of doing that right now.Converse with him daily via 'puter and haven't heard a word from him in 7-10 days.


----------



## solid7

flathead said:


> In the process of doing that right now.Converse with him daily via 'puter and haven't heard a word from him in 7-10 days.


Yeah... Me too...

When you get ahold of him - and I know you will - just make sure you don't go tellin' him that I care or something like that. Tell him... I dunno... He owes me money, or something.


----------



## bronzbck1

Pitiful, pitiful, just post to hear yourself I guess


----------



## solid7

bronzbck1 said:


> Pitiful, pitiful, just post to hear yourself I guess


Nah, it's just cause I wanted to see what you'd have to say, sugar...


----------



## dudeondacouch

Woe to whomever has to clean out this thread to compile all the good info.


----------



## Alexy

River said:


> Dang - I didn't want to get on here but figured I better, first of all, I'm a fisherman not a inventor - I relocated here from upstate NC a little less than 3 years ago to fish the rest of my life away. I've fished and hunted all my life and have several ex-wifes to prove it but I have managed to succeed pretty much in everything I've tryed, due to always surrounding myself with the best of that sport. Nothing changed when I started coming to Hatteras Island - I asked question about good fisherman and I found em, most became good friends and most still are. This Rig could easily be named after some of the greatest, what I call Mulletheads that fish this island, like Larry Hart, Kenneth Cash, Wayne Gless (The Artist) and I can never forget my best buddy who always inspires me, Susan McClanahan (SusanOBX). I have known the power of Fluorocarbon since my pier fishin days on the long gone Iron Steamer Pier back in days when I Flounder fished the wreck and everyone wondered why I caught just a few more fish than they did so when I started coming here in 2004, Fluoro was already in my bag and I started using it while I watched and learned from the best. I began to experiment with different size Flouro, hooks, beads and lengths everyday. I fish 4 rods alot, so different styles would go on each rod till I began to narrow it down to what really caught fish. As time went by, I began to get known a little because of the citations I weighed out in local shops and I was not really out fishin my friends but my fish were always bigger and it seemed Citations were no problem. I got in a one man Tournament, the 4 plus last fall, 400 plus fisherman and I knew that I could win before entering, almost unfair and I haven't entered any more. I had 16 Sea Mullet in my cooler that day, all over a pound with three Citations at around 1 and 3/4 lb each, the second place fish was 1 lb 7 oz., it was then that I began to realize just how good the Rig was. My friends have mostly switched to my length's, Lb test Fluoro and hooks now and we all catch nice fish. My RiverRig was receiving so much talk that I got an E-mail from another friend, Joe Moore (One More Cast Distributer) offering to tie, package and distribute the RiverRig, I said "Why Not" and spent some time with Joe showing him how to tie the RiverRig and it's many variations. The RiverRig as Jam stated is not Rocket Science, no fancy knots - just overhand knots, nothing special at all just a very simple rig that catches fish. I am not selfish and luv to see everyone catch fish and I have shown many people how to tie the rig and they all are catchin fish but I believe its not in my best interest to show it on here but I now work at Teaches Lair "The Roost" on Friday and Saturdays and will gladly show anyone who comes in how to tie the RiverRig, if I have time. My Rig is different than the Owen Lupton Rig, the Lupton Rigs saves Drums from being gut hooked, the RiverRig puts more fish on the table, my opinion on Fluorocarbon is, if there's light in the water Fluorocarbon works. Tradewinds has my RiverRig on line and Frisco Rod & Gun will have it on soon, Teaches Lair, The Pelican Roost, Frisco Tackle, Highway 12 Tackle (Steve Groves Shop) and Dillions Corner has the RiverRig and retailer that would like to stock it should contact Joe Moore at [email protected]. Thanks for all my friends especially Jam that supported me on this Thread, good straight up friends are hard to find - Grab a RiverRig, catch a Citation, Gone Fishin - River


 I give it a big thumbs up, just look for the yellow package and go to town with it.


----------



## SALTSHAKER

GEE !!!! Just to think I started all this with one question about a river rig !!!! Hot Dam.... salt


----------



## BubbaHoTep

dudeondacouch said:


> Woe to whomever has to clean out this thread to compile all the good info.


You got that right, dude!


----------



## Alexy

I will say this about Moore's river rig/ Last week we fished it right next to a mono sea striker double rig at ramp 49 and we landed mullet after mullet ( 7 in a hour) on the floro rig and the sea striker was never touched for 60 mins.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

Alexy said:


> I will say this about Moore's river rig/ Last week we fished it right next to a mono sea striker double rig at ramp 49 and we landed mullet after mullet ( 7 in a hour) on the floro rig and the sea striker was never touched for 60 mins.


I have had that happen plenty of times with the "exact same rig" fished right next to each other.......No rhyme or reason. Sometimes 10 feet can make all the difference if they are feeding on an edge


----------



## greg12345

may be some serious "placebo effect" going on here. and i'm not discounting the merits of fluoro, minimal hardware, and hand-tied rigs...i do all three myself.

i fish past the bar and have never caught a citation pomp on anything but the bottom drop, dunno why that is but that's what i've observed...the big whitings i have caught on both the top, middle, and bottom drop...weird b/c at that distance/angle all three drops should be sitting on the ocean floor


----------



## Raymo

greg12345 said:


> may be some serious "placebo effect" going on here. and i'm not discounting the merits of fluoro, minimal hardware, and hand-tied rigs...i do all three myself


couldnt agree with you more...a stealth rig will outfish one that is less than...and it doesnt matter what its called



greg12345 said:


> i fish past the bar and have never caught a citation pomp on anything but the bottom drop, dunno why that is but that's what i've observed......weird b/c at that distance/angle all three drops should be sitting on the ocean floor


my hypotheses is that Pomps feed as they sprint in from deep to shallow...the bottom drop is the first one that they see and if its prime, they blast it and keep coming in...until they realize they are hooked, at which time its usually a sprint north or south


----------



## DrumintheSuds

greg12345 said:


> may be some serious "placebo effect" going on here. and i'm not discounting the merits of fluoro, minimal hardware, and hand-tied rigs...i do all three myself.
> 
> i fish past the bar and have never caught a citation pomp on anything but the bottom drop, dunno why that is but that's what i've observed...the big whitings i have caught on both the top, middle, and bottom drop...weird b/c at that distance/angle all three drops should be sitting on the ocean floor


Yeah I have heard way too many "nobody else around me caught a fish" stories on this one. But like I said I have fished several poles next to each other with nothing different amongst them and 1 pole wore out the rest. Lots of things may contribute to 1 rig catching more than another on any given day. I tend to judge things by patterns they from.

I'm gonna fish the rig again this coming weekend (fluoro versus mono version)....who knows I may get a different result from last time.


----------



## Alexy

If it means anything to the scientific method of the fluoro debate we switched out the mono rig to a fluoro and the bite picked up on that rod. The rods were about 20-30 ft apart on the same structure


----------



## JAM

*You can Lead a Horse To Water.. Or ya can Beat Him To Death*

But ya can't make him Drink.. I'm gonna keep using the River Rig, I have seen and photo'd numerous results from people who have NEVER caught a Citation Pomp or Mullet, Including children, Until they used the River Rig.. Truth be told allot of Rivers Friends have been using this rig for long time before it was marketed.. And they all Catch Fish.. Kinda funny to me that some would rather fish a Chineese Made Rig over an American one.. All I hear all day long in the shop is How come there is nothing made in America anymore, and now something is, and the Brainy-acts, want to find fault in it, or second guess it. Well do what ya want, I'm gonna keep catching fish with it.... 

JAM


----------



## AbuMike

JAM said:


> But ya can't make him Drink.. I'm gonna keep using the River Rig, I have seen and photo'd numerous results from people who have NEVER caught a Citation Pomp or Mullet, Including children, Until they used the River Rig.. Truth be told allot of Rivers Friends have been using this rig for long time before it was marketed.. And they all Catch Fish.. Kinda funny to me that some would rather fish a Chineese Made Rig over an American one.. All I hear all day long in the shop is How come there is nothing made in America anymore, and now something is, and the *Brainy-acts, want to find fault in it, or second guess it*. Well do what ya want, I'm gonna keep catching fish with it....
> 
> JAM


+1....very well said....


----------



## JAM

*You can Lead a Horse To Water.. Or ya can Beat Him To Death*

But ya can't make him Drink.. I'm gonna keep using the River Rig, I have seen and photo'd numerous results from people who have NEVER caught a Citation Pomp or Mullet, Including children, Until they used the River Rig.. Truth be told allot of Rivers Friends have been using this rig for long time before it was marketed.. And they all Catch Fish.. Kinda funny to me that some would rather fish a Chineese Made Rig over an American one.. All I hear all day long in the shop is How come there is nothing made in America anymore, and now something is, and the Brainy-acts, want to find fault in it, or second guess it. Well do what ya want, I'm gonna keep catching fish with it.... 

JAM


----------



## solid7

AbuMike said:


> +1....very well said....


Like I said... You can't be both a friend and a skeptic around here.

River rigs will work fine, and I hope you sell a bunch of them. You're making an honest living.

All of my rigs are made in the USA. Hope that's alright with everyone.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

JAM said:


> But ya can't make him Drink.. I'm gonna keep using the River Rig, I have seen and photo'd numerous results from people who have NEVER caught a Citation Pomp or Mullet, Including children, Until they used the River Rig.. Truth be told allot of Rivers Friends have been using this rig for long time before it was marketed.. And they all Catch Fish.. Kinda funny to me that some would rather fish a Chineese Made Rig over an American one.. All I hear all day long in the shop is How come there is nothing made in America anymore, and now something is, and the Brainy-acts, want to find fault in it, or second guess it. Well do what ya want, I'm gonna keep catching fish with it....
> 
> JAM


I started tying this rig years ago and had success with it but I didn't tie it with the longer traces. As I learned more about mullet and flea fishing I began to tie all my rigs with longer traces which I think makes the difference with the riverrig. While I'm still not convinced fluoro makes a difference when it comes to a leader spooking fish it does sink better than mono which is a + when trying to keep the bait on the bottom. It's a great rig and very versatile.


----------



## dudeondacouch

Where did anyone say they would rather fish a Chinese rig? 

No one is discounting the "River Rig" (or fluoro for that matter) But you have to expect people to be skeptical or doubtful of something new to them and especially something that's more expensive that what they're using now. The River Rig might be the best thing since sliced bread, but $5 for a rig ain't chicken scratch and you can't be surprised that some will balk at that. "People is broke these days" as the saying goes.

I know I don't fish any "chinese rigs" because every one of mine is made by my own hands at my coffee table. Just because I don't buy rigs from tackle shops doesn't mean I don't support American products/workers.


----------



## solid7

dudeondacouch said:


> Where did anyone say they would rather fish a Chinese rig?
> 
> No one is discounting the "River Rig" (or fluoro for that matter) But you have to expect people to be skeptical or doubtful of something new to them and especially something that's more expensive that what they're using now. The River Rig might be the best thing since sliced bread, but $5 for a rig ain't chicken scratch and you can't be surprised that some will balk at that. "People is broke these days" as the saying goes.
> 
> I know I don't fish any "chinese rigs" because every one of mine is made by my own hands at my coffee table. Just because I don't buy rigs from tackle shops doesn't mean I don't support American products/workers.


This is the proper place to insert the "+1... Very well said."

The rig is not new, it's time proven. Nobody disputes that it works. Just the over the top claims that it works better than everything else ever invented. But hey, that's retail sales for you. You gotta sell your stuff, and I get that. Just don't expect a bunch of stubborn fishermen who all have "the real secret" (  ) to sit back and not say a word.

At the end of the day, we can all disagree about how magical a rig is or isn't, and still be pals. We don't have to go questioning each other's nationalism or loyalty. Personally, I'm able to disagree with someone, without writing them off as infidels.

I do respect several who didn't want to give away the "recipe" for the rig, out of deference to a man trying to make money on a product which he branded. That's respectable. Marking other as enemies for not falling in 100% behind the product, however, is not.


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## arich_5

$5.99 for the ones I got...but basically you're paying for the model of how to tie one because no one in their right mind would pay $5.99 over and over again for something so simple to tie. And they know that, that's why they cost what they cost.


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## Captain Awesome

arich_5 said:


> $5.99 for the ones I got...but basically you're paying for the model of how to tie one because no one in their right mind would pay $5.99 over and over again for something so simple to tie. And they know that, that's why they cost what they cost.


I'll give a +1 to that. 

River mentioned himself that if you stop in at the Roost, while he is around he'll show you how to tie it. 
"will gladly show anyone who comes in how to tie the RiverRig, if I have time"

It sounds simple so, I am sure the idea that others would then tie their own is factored in, and understandably so.
Good for him for selling it to those who may not have the time and understanding to tie it and good for him for volunteering to help those that do.
Lucky for me I will be in Frisco in two weeks. I'll stop by and purchase a couple and hopefully, meet River, and get some tips on how to tie one.

(Just to note, not directed at anyone, I just figured since every other P&S member commented on this thread I would feel left out if I didn't )


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## JAM

*Where is Sea Striker Made*

China.. 

I don't make enemies, and I have nothing, not one red cent to make off of this.. I fish Hatteras, and have done so 365 for 11 years, you can either take my advise, or Not.. All I can say is this Little fella took it...No enemy here just a fisherman, you all can do what ya want I'll keep catchin.. 

JAM

http://www.teachslair.com/hatteras-fishing-report/citation-pompano


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## DrumintheSuds

Everybody here knows or has known a legendary mullethead in their lifetimes. The guy or gal who nails em every time even when nobody else can seem to buy one......If you put 10 of them in a room you would probably get 10 different rigs that are similar in one way but different in others. You might even get 10 different theories on tactics.

I will say this......10% of fishermen catch 90% of the fish for several reasons. They FISH hard, they don't sit still and they ADAPT when the fish aren't cooperating. You can't replace time on the beach and years of knowledge with a special rig. I like trying different things because that one day when my "go to" rig or my "go to" tactic isn't working I have more than 1 egg in my basket.


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## AbuMike

solid7 said:


> Like I said... You can't be both a friend and a skeptic around here.
> 
> River rigs will work fine, and I hope you sell a bunch of them. You're making an honest living.
> 
> All of my rigs are made in the USA. Hope that's alright with everyone.


So why did you point that **** at me ???? You know by your own admission in PM to me, you are a smarta**. I don't give 2 ****s what you think of me. Damnit if you don't like what I reply block my a**.........................................


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## solid7

AbuMike said:


> So why did you point that **** at me ???? You know by your own admission in PM to me, you are a smarta**. I don't give 2 ****s what you think of me. Damnit if you don't like what I reply block my a**.........................................


Come on now. I've never known you to hold back a wise a** comment, so I can't see why you'd have any issue with someone else. It's all fair, right? You're the king of glancing jabs. Never would have expected you to be so sensitive.

No, I'm fine with what you write. No need to block at all. Just say what you need to....


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## greg12345

just curious - for all the people that see way better results with the riverrig, were they using hand tied rigs w/fluoro and no hardware before? i just wonder if it is the rig design per se (e.g. longer drops) or just some basic principles that most compulsive pompano fishermen follow (fluoro, bead, no hardware, etc.). not discounting the riverrig, i have tied that design before and it is a great rig...i just like my shorter drops.

final question: 6mm vs. 8mm bead and what color? i started w/6mm and the reddish ones that are common but have since moved to 8mm bright orange color, i think those work better for the big pomps. have not been able to tell a difference with the orange sinkers.


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## DrumintheSuds

greg12345 said:


> just curious - for all the people that see way better results with the riverrig, were they using hand tied rigs w/fluoro and no hardware before? i just wonder if it is the rig design per se (e.g. longer drops) or just some basic principles that most compulsive pompano fishermen follow (fluoro, bead, no hardware, etc.). not discounting the riverrig, i have tied that design before and it is a great rig...i just like my shorter drops.
> 
> final question: 6mm vs. 8mm bead and what color? i started w/6mm and the reddish ones that are common but have since moved to 8mm bright orange color, i think those work better for the big pomps. have not been able to tell a difference with the orange sinkers.


I like Orange or green during the summer months. Fall and spring I go with green or nothing. I'm gonna try the glow beads this weekend at night and see how the sea mullet like em


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## DrumintheSuds

BTW I think shorter drops are better for pomps and longer drops for sea mullet and drum (black and red)


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## greg12345

by green you mean bright green ones, like the sea striker ones?


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## solid7

DrumintheSuds said:


> I like Orange or green during the summer months. Fall and spring I go with green or nothing. I'm gonna try the glow beads this weekend at night and see how the sea mullet like em


Match bead colors to the donax (coquina) clams that you find in the surf... If you are fishing near a rip with white and purple clams, bead up accordingly. Our sand fleas have eggs on them year round, so we tend to use orange the same.

I tend to match clam colorss if there are lots around, and only use orange beads if there are some really big fleas in the area.

Often, no bead at all works just fine.


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## Fish Hunter

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:


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## dudeondacouch

DrumintheSuds said:


> I'm gonna try the glow beads this weekend at night and see how the sea mullet like em


I've had good luck on Croaker (both Bay and surf) with the Owner soft glow beads. Thread them right on the hook itself instead of on the line above; keeps them right next to the bait.

I've also had them work well for sea mullet, and have even caught a couple stray Pompano at night on them.


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## mots reel deal

way to go look what u started. going almost 2 months straight.


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## Charlie2

I had a rather lengthy post, but it wouldn't post. The computer ate it. Here's essentially what I wrote if I can remember it:

Let me throw another dog on the fire; s'il vous plait:

I have made what I call the C2 Rig and have caught tons of Pompano on it.

It is a (Gasp!) wire spreader with swimming jigs suspended back to back with a teaser on (Gasp!) monofilament loops with a Digger Jig on the bottom to provide weight and create a bottom disturbance.

Later in life, I replaced the (Gasp!) wire with (Gasp!) hard mason mono (Gasp!) crimped with sleeves. I continued to catch fish with it.

In fact many friends emailed me when they first came out with the A***(Umbrella) Rig saying that they had 'borrowed' and doubled my C2 Rig. C'est la vie.

I don't know why it catches fish, but it does. 

I looked at Floro compared with mono and both cast a shadow. 

I respect River's success with his floro, no hardware, River Rig and wish him contiuned success. He has done with a bottom rig what Doc did with the Swimming Jig.

Let me hear from the fluoro guys. Thoughts please; to help me solve this problem? of my catching fish with (gasp!) mono. Maybe if I used fluoro I would decimate the Pompano population? Maybe the fish are dumber over here?

I use a high grade of (gasp!) mono which is almost invisible. I have to get the old specs out or make my arms longer.

Have a nice day and hope to hear from you soon. . C2


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## solid7

Charlie2 said:


> Let me hear from the fluoro guys. Thoughts please; to help me solve this problem? of my catching fish with (gasp!) mono. Maybe if I used fluoro I would decimate the Pompano population? Maybe the fish are dumber over here?


Hey, Charlie.

I've said it a thousand times, and I'll say it a thousand more - fluoro isn't necessary all the time. It works best (in my experience) during the non-frenzied pompano days. Let's face it, when they are on a seasonal run, they'll bite just about anything. But when you have to hunt them out, and a good day is 2 pomps, that's when fluoro makes a difference. Since I never know when those days will be, I use fluoro all the time.

We also catch permit down here - they are my pompano fix in the summer when the real ones go back home - and those buggers seem to be much more leader shy than pompano. My rig for them looks like the pompano rig, but with NO beads whatsoever, and all fluoro. (60 lb main, and 20-25 lb drops - made for casting) It's a fluoro double drop, baited with bits of lesser blue crab. Before I started using fluoro, I had never caught a permit. Not saying that a mono rig wouldn't do it, but it sure seems like the fluoro turned the tide on the permit fishing.

I'd like to get with you someday and compare notes.


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## greg12345

maybe u can get away with more hardware when you have motion/bottom disturbance as this attracts the pomps? to be honest mono probably works as well as fluoro but i'm too anal/compulsive to fish with mono when I have fluoro available...i'd rather spend the $$$ when I have a chance to hit the beach (rarely)


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## [email protected]

Flouro is a lot cheaper these days than it used to be. I tie all of my hi-lo rigs out of one piece of flouro with no hardware. Have for years. Big Boy showed me how to do it. Without revealing any design particulars, is this basically what we are talking about here? A one piece flouro Hi-Lo bottom rig?


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## arich_5

[email protected] said:


> Flouro is a lot cheaper these days than it used to be. I tie all of my hi-lo rigs out of one piece of flouro with no hardware. Have for years. Big Boy showed me how to do it. Without revealing any design particulars, is this basically what we are talking about here? A one piece flouro Hi-Lo bottom rig?


No, it's one piece, no hardware but the traces are different and the weight is oriented differently from a normal hi-low rig.


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## Charlie2

I paid my dues by hanging onto a cinder block with snorkle and mask to observe Pompano action,

Any kind of bottom disturbance will attract them to investigate. One will find something and others will come to investigate. I've seen them stand on their heads while rooting out a flea, or small crab. They will also suck in black objects to see if edible. If not; they spit it out.!

My casting rigs all have a digger jig on the bottom to create the 'Magic Puff of Sand' which emulates a small crustacean digging to avoid being eaten.

I use teasers on dropper(s) above the bottom jig. I do use a sweetener on the teasers.

A guy over here make some floating jigs for saltwater which offer some great possibilities.

I concede; that if I bait fished; I'd probably use fluorocarbon but mono suffices for my needs for casting jigs.

Some of the mono that I use is almost invisible. JMHO C2


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## solid7

Hey, Charlie... Did you ever fish pomps or permit with swimming crabs?


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## sleepyhead

wow this might be longest thread in P&S history.. :beer::beer::beer::beer::beer:


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## arich_5

Charlie2 said:


> My casting rigs all have a digger jig on the bottom to create the 'Magic Puff of Sand' which emulates a small crustacean digging to avoid being eaten.
> 
> I use teasers on dropper(s) above the bottom jig. I do use a sweetener on the teasers.


Care to post any pics of your rigs? What exactly is a digger jig?


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## RuddeDogg

sleepyhead said:


> wow this might be longest thread in P&S history.. :beer::beer::beer::beer::beer:


Or thread of the year....


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## solid7

arich_5 said:


> Care to post any pics of your rigs? What exactly is a digger jig?


A "digger jig" is also sometimes called a "shovel nose" jig. It's got a long head, it's kinda banana shaped in profile, and flattens out as you go from the hook eye to the nose. It looks like somone started with a lead rod, and hit it with a hammer close to the tip.


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## Charlie2

solid7 said:


> Hey, Charlie... Did you ever fish pomps or permit with swimming crabs?





solid7 said:


> A "digger jig" is also sometimes called a "shovel nose" jig. It's got a long head, it's kinda banana shaped in profile, and flattens out as you go from the hook eye to the nose. It looks like somone started with a lead rod, and hit it with a hammer close to the tip.


First question: I have fished for Pompano with a small fiddler, if that's what you mean. I tie a fly/teaser that imitates a crab which is very effective. I also used Crab Knuckles when I used bait.

Second: You are correct in your explanation. I made mine for years(a secret) using a Charlie Helin Flyrod Flatfish lure as a pattern for a homemade mold. It threw about a 1--2 oz jig. I also whittled out patterns to make heavier jigs. I also make a 'sliding' jig that I also make from a homemade mold which slides across he bottom. Not as much bottom disturbance as a Digger. I 'hop' the Digger to create the "magic Puff of Sand'.

In 2007, Do-It Molds came out with their new Gravedigger mold. I bought and use one but it only throws up to a 3/8 oz jig. I still have some of my old ones which are easier to get distance. 

I paint my Diggers in Yellow, White Yellow and Chartreuse and fish them back to back with a teaser on a loop knot(a la Doc's). I tie my teasers in the same colors and use them on loop knots above the Digger jig. I do sweeten them with a tad of shrimp or GULP!. I will use a piece of shrimp or plastic on the jig itself sometimes. It works.

The Digger roots along the bottom stirring up sand. I have caught a 'triple' on such as well as on my C2 Rig, which uses wire. 

That's about all for this session. C2


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## HStew

If you are snorkeling and want to hit bottom fast get a 2 foot cast iron window sash weight. It won't take up much room and handles easy>


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## solid7

Charlie2 said:


> First question: I have fished for Pompano with a small fiddler, if that's what you mean. I tie a fly/teaser that imitates a crab which is very effective. I also used Crab Knuckles when I used bait.


No, I mean a lesser blue crab.

I never used to believe that a crab claw would be an effective pompano bait. I decided to take ol' Charlie's advice, and can damn sure tell you that a pompano will almost always pick that crab claw over a sand flea. Top or bottom trace, not important. You can put the claw on anywhere with a flea, and he'll pick the claw first. I caught one the other day that could barely get that claw in his mouth. (stuffed completely full - no room for chewing)

I use small hooks - #2 Mustad demon circle 2X strong. Using a pocket knife, I "drill" a hole half way down the "forearm", and then run the hook down the middle of the arm, and out the hole. It hangs kinda loose, but stays on just fine.


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## Charlie2

That'll work but I learned another way from my friends over in Jacksonville. 

You take a blue crab and remove the top shell(carapice). You will see the 'Devil Fingers' which are supposedly it's oxygen getters. Remove ans discard them.You will notice that the body is in segments. You separate these body segments leaving the first joint of the legs on each segment. Hook the hook through the segment leaving the leg joint dangling. It's deadly for Pompano or most any other species.

The bottom shell keeps the bait stealers from eating it too soon. 

To keep the thread 'honest'; I used it on my version of a 'River Rig'.

I tie my teasers on #2 EC hooks. I use crab knuckles and other bait as a 'sweetener' on my teasers.C2.


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## JAM

*You Guessed It The "River Rig"*

Caught this Little Fella, (1 Pound 13 ouncesNC Citation) On a Sand Flea and the River Rig. Guy next to me watched me catch 14 Sea Monkeys to his big goose Egg.. As I was leaving I gave him a "River Rig" watched him bow up as I went to the Weigh Station... I am a Believer.. How bout U..

JAM

https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.p...31160863.52281.210314212339165&type=1&theater


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## bronzbck1

Nice one Jam. I took two guys the other day that have never caught a mullet or Pomp before. They had a ball, 4 citations and only saw 3 fish around us caught. Everyone thought they where old salts. I was leaving and told my neighbor to set her chair right in front of my truck and cast right there. Tied her on one of the new prototype River Rigs ands she was yelling I got one when we pulled off. I know that this style rig has been around awhile and different versions work the same or better some where else, but I will take this rig over the ones I use to use any day. Those guys are still talking about the good time they had. That is what it is all about right there


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## susanobx

Bronzbck's catch, nice catch!


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## Pescadito

*A Testimonial from "The Guy Next Door"...*

I was the Guy who stopped to socialize and enjoy the day, didn't even intend to fish, and ended up fishing next to Jam as he described in the previous post. He tells it like it was. 

Now, to tell the truth, I have been tying similarly configured "rigs" since the late 60's... and always thought of them as "John Harkrader style" quick Puppy Drum Rigs", using heavier leader material and bigger hooks, and in fact there is nothing "NEW" or revolutionary about the Configuration. 

But apparently the Devil IS in the Details, as was demonstrated to my satisfaction yesterday. The "SAME" configuration tied with different hooks, ON FLUOROCARBON, wouldn't buy a bite. The "Real McCoy" did get my only hookup of the day, but it wasn't a Sea Mullet; a small Blue that made 3 jumps before throwing the hook, on that "used" rig jam was ready to throw away... My Catch of the day was another Large Ray on my long Cobia/Drum Mullet Head laying outside the bar...

Judging by what I SAW in a "side by side" experiment ( same rig, different details, same bait, spiked poles, same location, same time) and what I have seen on line and in other guys' Coolers, River Has a good thing going. Try one and form your own opinion. The Pomps and Sea Mullet seem to agree these days. Buy or bum one, if you will, but the AUTHENTIC "River rig" (note the Capital letter) is doing the trick this summer.



JAM said:


> Caught this Little Fella, (1 Pound 13 ounces NC Citation) On a Sand Flea and the River Rig. Guy next to me watched me catch 14 Sea Monkeys to his big goose Egg.. As I was leaving I gave him a "River Rig" watched him bow up as I went to the Weigh Station... I am a Believer.. How bout U..
> 
> JAM
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.p...31160863.52281.210314212339165&type=1&theater


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## Plug

Charlie2 said:


> That'll work but I learned another way from my friends over in Jacksonville.
> 
> You take a blue crab and remove the top shell(carapice). You will see the 'Devil Fingers' which are supposedly it's oxygen getters. Remove ans discard them.You will notice that the body is in segments. You separate these body segments leaving the first joint of the legs on each segment. Hook the hook through the segment leaving the leg joint dangling. It's deadly for Pompano or most any other species.


Using blue crab like this works even better if the crab is a "peeler", one just about to shed it's old shell. For some reason fish prefer them hands down over hard crabs. On the Delmarva "peelers" are sold in nearly all bait shops. Curiously they are not in other places.

That's a real shame because IMO they are the best bait for bottom dwelling panfish in the surf. They are also a fine rockfish and drum bait. Matter of fact the bait of choice for red drum on the VBI's.

I commonly use fleas, cut bait, or real/fake bloodworms for kings because they are either free or fairly cheap and readily available. But peeler crab will catch more kingfish 80% of the time.


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## AbuMike

Plug you ever try them Perdu Peelers.....


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## Plug

Nah, although it does work on trout. Always worried about salmonella. Back when there were a lot more trout around and "perdue peeler" was quite the craze a bunch of people up here got sick from improperly handling chicken used as bait. If I used it I'd keep a bottle of Purell handy to decontaminate after every baiting.


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## River

Pescadito, I feel your pain - having to watch Jam catch fish then handed his used RiverRig is tough, being I told you where he was at, I feel responsible so Two new AUTHENTIC Original style RiverRig's for you the next time we meet - River


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## AbuMike

Looks like the original wins....


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## NC KingFisher

One last thing to say. SALTSHAKER YOU SEE WHAT U DONE BOY! U SHOULD GET A MEDAL


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## DrumintheSuds

Tested the rig again this weekend (Thursday-Sunday). Fished the riverrig only (rigs I tied myself) and caught them on mono and fluoro. I filled 2 coolers up with black drum and sea mullet Thursday fishing a narrow slough in front of a wide swashbar. This slough was maybe 10 yards at its widest but 2 feet deep with a steep lip up against the bar. Lots of coquina clams, sandfleas and minnows on the bar and in the slough and the current was perfect for holding fish. I could have caught them with a bream buster and was basically just pitching the rig up against the lip of the swashbar. I took my brother and a neighbor and I wore them boys out because I setup in "just the right place". I placed 2 rods where the slough "pinched" (the narrowest point) and my 2 rods probably caught 75% of the fish. Again I got the same results from the mono versus the fluoro. Friday through Saturday saw the water clear up and my slough close up so I moved around and caught some sea mullet here and there. I thought I would have seen some bigger pomps but the water was full of the little potato chips. Yesterday the water stirred up a bit more and I found another nice slough that produced some black drum, sea mullet and a few slot reds.

Once again I like the rig because it's easy to tie, doesn't tangle. It's versatile and gives me what I want in a "bottom rig" and I still see no difference between pink ande mono and fluorocarbon although I do like some of the properties of fluoro a little better since I tried the Seagar this trip.


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## solid7

DrumintheSuds said:


> I do like some of the properties of fluoro a little better since I tried the Seagar this trip.


Give that Diamond Presentation a try sometime, if you haven't already... That's just about my favorite.


----------



## [email protected]

So where can an inland guy like myself order one of these River Rigs for my trip down to EI in two weeks? Do they sell them at that Reel shop in EI?


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## JAM

*@ Shane*

We (The Roost)will ship anywhere 252-986-2460.. 

Any Rig will catch the Regular Sea Mullets or Pomps but the Smarter (LARGER) ones won't hit them. I dubded this year the Year of the Small Fish. As I have aquired all of the Citations ya can get on large Fish, from Blue Marlin to Drum. It was MY VERY FIRST year Fishing for Sea Mullets or Pomps, actualy targeting these Fish as I have no Citations for them. Might have fished for them 3 times this season, and BAM Citation.. Next is the Pompano, as the Sea Mullets will be leaving us shortly and will not return till the Fall. So I uderstand all of the Luck you'all have on your own rigs, lets see some photo's of YOUR Citation Fish caught on YOUR Rigs.. I'll go ahead and do the Babe Ruth called Shot, My Pompano Citation will be comming Soon.. 

JAM


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## JAM

@ Shane Just Call the Roost 252-986-2460 we will ship anywhere. 

I dubbed this year the Year of the Little Fish, as I have aquired all of the Citations for Larger Fish that I want from Blue Marlin to Red Drum, and everything inbetween.. So this was My very First year to Target Pomps and Sea Mullets, and to be honest with ya I have only went, when I can not KAYAK fish which has been about 3 times. 

So having said that, here is mine, now show me yours.. Been hearin a whole lot of Talk, but just ain't seein the Proof. Now I am sure that all you guys that have been Shootin down the River Rig, have multiple Citations, to back up your BS, after all you have been at it WAY longer then Me. Like I said I am NEW to this Mullet Fishing, and it dam sure ain't me being good at it, it was the Rig. I'll go out on a Limb here and Do a Babe Ruth Called Shot, Citation Pompano before Sept. On the River Rig.. Whatcha Say.. 

JAM


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## solid7

JAM said:


> Whatcha Say..


I still say you all should put all the cards on the table, and have "The River Rig Challenge". Just bet the whole farm on it. Make a firm statement, that the River Rig will out fish all other rigs, and then put fishing teams together. Total newbies with River Rigs vs. good fishermen with everything else. (as this is, pretty much, how the River Rig has been played up) Winner takes all.

If the River Rigs outcatch all the others, then bragging glory (and potential sales) are yours. This is how you get attention, and this is how you silence the critics.

What do you say? Are ya brave enough?

I have no skin in this game, so I have no problem if the Rig wins or loses. If it's that good, I'd tie my own, but I'd sure be happy for the non fish catching guys who could start catching fish with them.


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## AbuMike

opcorn: :beer:


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## DrumintheSuds

I'm not sure who has been shooting the rig down.....I see some folks hyping it like people never caught fish before the riverrig and some (me included) who like the rig but don't see where it "outfishes" other rigs that have produced for decades. I have seen plenty of old men that caught citation sea mullet and pompano on a storebought rig from walmart.

With that being said I fish for FOOD not pictures or paper on a wall. I trust my instincts to read the beach and the water and apply what I have learned and jotted down after each trip. What was the moon phase? Water clarity?, Water temps? On the bar?, In front of the bar? Behind the bar?......you name it I write it down. If fish "should" be there and feeding but I aint getting a bite I move until I find them. When I find them I will try different baits, rigs and tactics. That's where the fun comes in 

I took my compadres to school this weekend and all 3 of us fished the riverrig......I schooled them because I put my rigs in the "doorway" where those bad boys that passed through found my hook waiting for an ambush.


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## greg12345

nice work DiTS...save some for me...i know you like steelhead rods and skinny water but do you ever launch a flea as far as you can throw it on a long rod...give it a try if the big pomps aren't cooperating in close


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## DrumintheSuds

greg12345 said:


> nice work DiTS...save some for me...i know you like steelhead rods and skinny water but do you ever launch a flea as far as you can throw it on a long rod...give it a try if the big pomps aren't cooperating in close


I don't really target pomps as much as I do black drum and sea mullet but sometimes the sea mullet are further out than I normally find them. This is especially true in the spring....I have caught some very nice pomps casting long to get to sea mullet. The sloughs I hit this weekend produced some nice pomps last year. They just weren't around where I fished this time.

Friday and Saturday brought southeast winds which is straight onshore (directly in your face) where I fish and I normally don't do as well on those winds. The surf was full of small sea mullet and pomps and I had a good time watching them run the bars scooping up small fleas and coquina clams in less than 6" of water. This weekend offered me a great opportunity to educate my brother and my neighbor on reading water and finding fish. I got some great pictures of sloughs, runouts, cuts and swashbars and perhaps I will do a thread for some of the folks that don't know exactly what to look for.


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## JamesRiverVa

DitS, I would love to see those pics and your description of what you are looking at. I've seen a few other, similar threads in the past and they've been helpful. My problem comes when viewing it in real time - and in motion. I can usually spot stuff in a still picture. But when the waves are rolling in succession, it feels like every time I think I see a break in the bar or some other indication of good structure, the next group of waves make everything look different. I especially have a hard time reliably finding those "doorways" where the slough narrows and empties out (as opposed to just finding an obvious slough and chucking the bait right into the middle of the deepest part of it). Still, I feel like I'm starting to turn the corner and see more than I used to, based on lots of reading and learning a little bit more with each trip to the beach. Any pics you can share that might speed up the learning curve would be much appreciated.


----------



## solid7

JamesRiverVa said:


> I can usually spot stuff in a still picture. But when the waves are rolling in succession, it feels like every time I think I see a break in the bar or some other indication of good structure, the next group of waves make everything look different. I especially have a hard time reliably finding those "doorways" where the slough narrows and empties out (as opposed to just finding an obvious slough and chucking the bait right into the middle of the deepest part of it).


You are aware that beach can change right before your very eyes, right? One of the biggest mistakes many guys make when reading the surf, is failing to recognize that you are watching water move sand. A rip will not always occur in the same place. It might not be in the same place for 2 consecutive breaking waves. This can especially be true when you have winds blowing parallel or diagonal to the shoreline. 

All beaches are different. Some places have structure that holds up pretty well over the season. Others, you can watch the rips and small suckouts change with the tide. You might want to just take an entire day, and walk a beach with just one rod and a backpack, and fish everything that looks like it might be holding fish - and move often, until you know what you are looking for. Throw at everything that looks different from what's around it. Typically, these areas are characterized by a difference in the aggregate leading back to the waterline. (a line of softer or different color sand, for instance)

I have been to beaches that are unrecognizable from their former appearance from just one day to the next...


----------



## DrumintheSuds

James
I will try to put a thread up as soon as I can crop the photos and put some graphics on them. The pics I have show a classic cut through a swashbar and a beautiful slough. I will put graphics showing where I caught my fish and where "I" prefer to fish and why. These pics are taken at low tide which makes it easy to spot this stuff. I wish I had taken a few at high tide when it's all covered up because most people would have no clue whatsoever what was below the surface.

Like Solid mentioned the beach changes everyday. The southeast wind closed up my Thursday hotspot in 1 day but started opening it back up somewhat when the south/southwest wind kicked back in yesterday and the longshore currents resurfaced


----------



## Garboman

When I was young I fished right in front of the House we stayed at in Kitty Hawk, we all ways rented the same house for the month of August

I only fished in front of the house and I caught fish every morning, it was many many years before I fished the beach somewhere else besides in front of that house or at Kitty Hawk Pier....

At the advanced age of ten years I had mastered surf fishing, and I only fished in front of the house cause that was as far down the beach as my Momma let me go. I had a closed face spinning reel an off set handle casting rod and eagle claw pre snelled hooks......the ones that had a bunch of Rainbow Trout strung on a stick on the package.

Seems like you fellas make this out to be some kind of complicated game with a quarry that can only be outwitted by extreme stealth and superior beach reading knowledge and special equipment.................

Thirty years later I caught a Sea Mullet in a gill net set for three pound and up Spanish that was pushing four pounds, we thought it was a baby Cobia at first, for all I know it was the Sea Mullet World record, we iced it down at the packing house at Rodanthe and shipped it to Fulton.......


----------



## DrumintheSuds

There are also other ways to spot cuts and deeper holes without even looking at the waves. Larger shells will pile up in front of a deeper pocket or hole on sloped beaches. They wash into the hole and the tide deposits them on the beach. Cuts can be pinpointed by watching the suds. If the suds are moving swiftly outward or you come across an area that looks like a washing machine you probably have a nice little hole or a cut in the bar.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

Garboman said:


> When I was young I fished right in front of the House we stayed at in Kitty Hawk, we all ways rented the same house for the month of August
> 
> I only fished in front of the house and I caught fish every morning, it was many many years before I fished the beach somewhere else besides in front of that house or at Kitty Hawk Pier....
> 
> At the advanced age of ten years I had mastered surf fishing, and I only fished in front of the house cause that was as far down the beach as my Momma let me go. I had a closed face spinning reel an off set handle casting rod and eagle claw pre snelled hooks......the ones that had a bunch of Rainbow Trout strung on a stick on the package.
> 
> Seems like you fellas make this out to be some kind of complicated game with a quarry that can only be outwitted by extreme stealth and superior beach reading knowledge and special equipment.................


When I first started fishing with my dad 30+ years ago we caught every species of fish pretty much everytime we went and it didn't seem to matter where on the beach we fished. Nobody fished or ate fish back then but ******** and black folks so there were plenty of fish to be had. I'm sure climate patterns, overfishing and may other factors have led to why fish might be less abundant but the days of just showing up and catching fish are long gone.

But I do agree with you on several points. I prefer to keep it as simple as possible


----------



## NC KingFisher

druminthesuds said:


> nobody fished or ate fish back then but ******** and black folks so there were plenty of fish to be had.


lmfao


----------



## River

DrumintheSuds, you really make some valid points that I totally agree with, when you mentioned the "Washing Machine" it really hit home, I've caught lots of big Pompano fishin in what you and I call the "Washing Machine". I too started fishin when I was young, my Dad was a planker and I fished with him on every Pier in the Southeastern part of the state, from Wrightville Beach to long beach, I was a planker till 10 years ago. My Dad taught me alot, from the power of fresh bait to - not casting a shadow on the water. I don't think you are making it complicated at all but fish are like lots of other game - they follow the path of least resistance (when they're not spooked) and they find the best places to dine like - in and around the "Washing Machine" - Some good stuff here, River


----------



## smlobx

River- Comming down for a suicide run to check on my house. I'll stop by the Roost either Friday or Saturday. Will you be working this weekend? I need to pick up a few Rigs...


----------



## River

smlobx, I'll be there from 6:00 AM till 2:00 PM Friday and Saturday, if you come other times - Jam, Dave or Terry will be glad to help. The Roost at Teachs Lair Marina has a nice selection of beaded RiverRigs - orange, two shades of green, black, pink, pearl light purple (I call "Coquina"), the Flounder/Fluke RiverRig and naturally, the one I call "Naked", with no beads - Thanks, River


----------



## DrumintheSuds

River said:


> DrumintheSuds, you really make some valid points that I totally agree with, when you mentioned the "Washing Machine" it really hit home, I've caught lots of big Pompano fishin in what you and I call the "Washing Machine". I too started fishin when I was young, my Dad was a planker and I fished with him on every Pier in the Southeastern part of the state, from Wrightville Beach to long beach, I was a planker till 10 years ago. My Dad taught me alot, from the power of fresh bait to - not casting a shadow on the water. I don't think you are making it complicated at all but fish are like lots of other game - they follow the path of least resistance (when they're not spooked) and they find the best places to dine like - in and around the "Washing Machine" - Some good stuff here, River


Exactly!......It sounds like a cliche but you have to think like a fish and understand the environment they live in. Other than breeding their only other job is to feed and avoid being eaten. They are creatures who adapt to their environment on a daily basis and they seek the easiest places to feed without being eaten themselves. To narrow down where certain fish are likely to feed you need to look no further than the fish themselves. Their shape, their mouths, whether they are streamlined and built for chasing bait or whether they have mouths that point down for feeding off the bottom. Obviously sea mullet, black drum, croaker, pomps and puppy drum (to and extent) feed off the bottom. That tells me they are likely to feed where there is current and churning water (easy meals). Knowing this I do what I can do to ambush them. One thing I did this weekend when the water cleared up was look at your rig with my scuba mask on. That bottom hook really lays on the bottom and the top hook is just where I like it to be. It's a good rig and has given me some ideas to tinker with!


----------



## derekm

I fished ramp 49 and 55 this past week and had great luck with the River Rig. Caught lot of pomps, and sea mullet including 2 citations. Fished the wash on 49 and the slough on 55. Had best luck with the pink beads, however the naked produced well too. Caught a few short flounder and skates off 55 in the mornings. Overall great week, and hope to get back down later this summer. River offered to show me how to tie the rig, but the wife was waiting in the car. Hopefully next time.


----------



## BlueWater

DrumintheSuds said:


> James
> I will try to put a thread up as soon as I can crop the photos and put some graphics on them. The pics I have show a classic cut through a swashbar and a beautiful slough. I will put graphics showing where I caught my fish and where "I" prefer to fish and why. These pics are taken at low tide which makes it easy to spot this stuff. I wish I had taken a few at high tide when it's all covered up because most people would have no clue whatsoever what was below the surface.


I would love to see these pics DitS as im new to surf fishing and very intrigued to see these cuts etc.


----------



## JAM

*I've shown ya a Dozen Citation or more in less then a Month.. Proof is There.. JAM*



solid7 said:


> I still say you all should put all the cards on the table, and have "The River Rig Challenge". Just bet the whole farm on it. Make a firm statement, that the River Rig will out fish all other rigs, and then put fishing teams together. Total newbies with River Rigs vs. good fishermen with everything else. (as this is, pretty much, how the River Rig has been played up) Winner takes all.
> 
> If the River Rigs outcatch all the others, then bragging glory (and potential sales) are yours. This is how you get attention, and this is how you silence the critics.
> 
> What do you say? Are ya brave enough?
> 
> I have no skin in this game, so I have no problem if the Rig wins or loses. If it's that good, I'd tie my own, but I'd sure be happy for the non fish catching guys who could start catching fish with them.


I say I get to see it everyday, working in a Tackle Shop.. I see newbees go out and catch Citations, I have posted over a dozen Pictures of Citation Fish, just in the last Month, from both newbees and Seasoned Fishermen. What I have yet to see is all the LARGE (Citation Size) fish from all the Critics. Like I said as well I have no dog in the Hunt either, just helpin a Good Friend. Proof is in the puddin, or pictures, in this case..

PS I never said you could not catch on other Rigs, I see that all the time as well on hte ole Sea Striker DPR8. But from a Consistant Big fish angle, the River Rig Smokes em. if I told ya I have done over 50 Citations this Spring/Summer i would be lieing, cause I have done more. And I ask what rig were ya using and the response is the same, River Rig.. My Neighbors Linda and Glen fished the hole I pulled the Monkey out of on Sunday, both got 2 pound 1 ounce Pomps.. I fish for food and ya can't eat paper, but paper is Fun.. 

JAM


----------



## solid7

JAM, not to be a wise guy.... But if I got as much time on the water as you do, I'd never have time to do anything but clean fish.


----------



## dudeondacouch

1. If the "newbees" bought River Rigs, it pretty much stands to reason that they would catch their fish on them and nothing else.

2. I agree with Solid that if I could fish every day, I too could have a stack of paper a mile high and a dozen deep freezers full of fillets.

3. Again, I'm not doubting that the River Rig works. I'm just skeptical that it could outfish a quality drop rig consistently and by a significant amount based SOLELY on design. (For the reasons I outlined earlier in the thread.)


----------



## Hudak

If you haven't convinced each other in 18 pages, chances are it ain't gonna happen. opcorn:


----------



## AbuMike

I don't call spending 3 days on the beach fishing....... "every day" or "every moment"


----------



## dudeondacouch

Well, I'm gonna give the rig (or what I imagine it is based on the information in the thread) an honest try this fall. If it comes out on top, I'll say so.

I've got some new guys coming with me to Cape Lookout, and my plan is to give them all the same instructions and the same equipment, but then give a couple of them drop rigs, and a couple of them River (type) rigs. Findings will be duly posted.


----------



## solid7

thekingfeeder said:


> If you haven't convinced each other in 18 pages, chances are it ain't gonna happen. opcorn:


Quite the cynic, aren't we? How about we give it another 10 pages or so? Ya know... Just to be sure....


----------



## DrumintheSuds

The rig is good but it aint magical (no rig is). You aren't going to pitch this thing in the soup just anywhere on the beach and start pulling in giant sea mullet and pompano.....

I proved a major point this past weekend when I outfished (with the riverrig) 2 other people using the riverrig.

A good friend of mine fished a hole during the 4th of July weekend and caught a cooler full of the biggest sea mullet he has ever seen. Gulf whiting and several of them were 2 1/2lb. He caught them on dropper loop mono rigs. I did teh same thing last year


----------



## JAM

*And I caught Moby Dick, but where is the proof.*

But without Picture's I am Skecpital of you'all.. I have proved the rigs worthyness, documented it to death.. There is a Thing that is called Work, so I don't get to fish everyday. I Kayak Fish 90 percent of my free time, have only beached fished, 3 times for them, so that would be little more then a normal weekend of someone comming down and fishing. 

Lets see all these pictures of 2 1/2 pound Sea Mullets.. I know many folks that, that is all they do is Sea Mullet fish, one of them has won the Cape Hatteras Anglers Club Biggest Sea Mullet for more years then I remember, he has ONE count em ONE Sea Mullet that went 2 and 1/2 pound in many years of Fishing, so I would love to see Pictures of Coolers full of those size fish.. 

This will be the last I say on this until I put up my Citation Pompano up in the next few weeks..

BTW I only keep what I eat and I DO NOT EAT frozen Fish, one of the perks of Livin on da water. 

JAM


----------



## [email protected]

I do a lot more fly fishing for trout than I do surf fishing, but fish are fish and a lot of them behave the same. Fishing on clear mountain streams gives you a real opportunity to study and watch the one you are after and to observe what you are doing right, and what you are doing wrong. Why he takes one offering and refuses the next.

I know that in fly fishing, an inch or two off of or on the bottom when the fish want what's on the bottom can make all the difference in the world. I am convinced that for fish that have been fished over, and in clear water, flourocarbon makes a real difference, and so does line diameter. Thinner flouro does better than thicker flouro.

Fish are edge dwellers. They like borders. Borders between feature and plain, Borders between deep and shallow water, slow and faster water, clear and muddy water, warm and colder water. For a number of reasons, that's where they like to hang out. Good place for ambush. Able to watch the food train go by, able to hide or run from bigger fish, able to stay out of heavy current and save energy (fish spend an enormous amount of energy acquiring food, and will save it when they can)

Understanding that fish like these places the most and will be on station there is the key to fishing. Finding these places isn't always easy, but if you just look at the ocean and look for the different places, and fish in between them, you will catch fish.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

JAM said:


> But without Picture's I am Skecpital of you'all.. I have proved the rigs worthyness, documented it to death.. There is a Thing that is called Work, so I don't get to fish everyday. I Kayak Fish 90 percent of my free time, have only beached fished, 3 times for them, so that would be little more then a normal weekend of someone comming down and fishing.
> 
> Lets see all these pictures of 2 1/2 pound Sea Mullets.. I know many folks that, that is all they do is Sea Mullet fish, one of them has won the Cape Hatteras Anglers Club Biggest Sea Mullet for more years then I remember, he has ONE count em ONE Sea Mullet that went 2 and 1/2 pound in many years of Fishing, so I would love to see Pictures of Coolers full of those size fish..
> 
> This will be the last I say on this until I put up my Citation Pompano up in the next few weeks..
> 
> BTW I only keep what I eat and I DO NOT EAT frozen Fish, one of the perks of Livin on da water.
> 
> JAM


I'll make sure I take a picture of every fish I ever catch beside the rig I caught it on from here on out. I'll have everybody I know do the same.......

And I didn't say he had a cooler full of 2 1/2 lb sea mullet. I said several of the mullet he caught went 2 1/2 lbs and that isn't abnormal


----------



## greg12345

After reading this thread you would think that fishing for sea mullet is harder than being a blind man fly fishing for permit on the flats.


----------



## jakuka

greg12345 said:


> After reading this thread you would think that fishing for sea mullet is harder than being a blind man fly fishing for permit on the flats.


Agreed. The original poster asked a question inquiring about the River Rig. It was answered. There are those, such as River, who had a reputation for catching fish before this thread started, and then there were those campaigning in this thread trying to establish one. It was as if they thought whoever can throw around enough fish catching tips shall become _the Pompano Whisperer_.


----------



## JAM

*Sounds Like Back Peddeling to me...*



DrumintheSuds said:


> I'll make sure I take a picture of every fish I ever catch beside the rig I caught it on from here on out. I'll have everybody I know do the same.......
> 
> And I didn't say he had a cooler full of 2 1/2 lb sea mullet. I said several of the mullet he caught went 2 1/2 lbs and that isn't abnormal[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> O.K. How about One Picture..
> 
> DITS, SOLID7 and old SK sounds to me like they all hang together, talk the Talk but don't walk the walk.. .. Several 2 and 1/2 pounders woud be amazing considering my friend the Mullet Master has ONE..
> 
> I am gonna out and out just Raise the BS Flag, excuses excuses excuses..
> 
> All phones have cameras built in, a banner fish is Photographed, unless it ain't caught..
> 
> 10 percent of the Fishermen catch 90 percent of the Fish, I know where I stand..
> 
> Saluting the BS Flag at this Point..
> JAM


----------



## AbuMike

Lmao........I knew SK could not stay out of this one.....


----------



## DrumintheSuds

JAM

Who cares? I gave the riverrig and River a positive thumbs up so I'm not sure what more you want. I don't owe you anything.......I'm just a guy who loves to fish and I try and contribute when I can to help others who want to have a decent conversation. Not sure what your reasons are for being a D*ck.


----------



## NC KingFisher

solid7 said:


> JAM, not to be a wise guy.... But if I got as much time on the water as you do, I'd never have time to do anything but clean fish.





dudeondacouch said:


> 1. If the "newbees" bought River Rigs, it pretty much stands to reason that they would catch their fish on them and nothing else.
> 
> 2. I agree with Solid that if I could fish every day, I too could have a stack of paper a mile high and a dozen deep freezers full of fillets.
> 
> 3. Again, I'm not doubting that the River Rig works. I'm just skeptical that it could outfish a quality drop rig consistently and by a significant amount based SOLELY on design. (For the reasons I outlined earlier in the thread.)


\
LMFAO those are the biggest full of crap fisherman statments i have ever heard


----------



## greg12345

ok that "pompano whisperer" comment was hilarious...

not picking sides here but i will point out that dudeondacouch posted multiple pics from his trip to holden beach in may, some nice citation pomps in that thread, he has proven he can put quality fish on the beach with his "own" rig....just saying.


----------



## bronzbck1

NC KingFisher said:


> \
> LMFAO those are the biggest full of crap fisherman statments i have ever heard


I second that


----------



## Oyster

Plug said:


> Using blue crab like this works even better if the crab is a "peeler", one just about to shed it's old shell. For some reason fish prefer them hands down over hard crabs. On the Delmarva "peelers" are sold in nearly all bait shops. Curiously they are not in other places.
> 
> That's a real shame because IMO they are the best bait for bottom dwelling panfish in the surf. They are also a fine rockfish and drum bait. Matter of fact the bait of choice for red drum on the VBI's.
> 
> I commonly use fleas, cut bait, or real/fake bloodworms for kings because they are either free or fairly cheap and readily available. But peeler crab will catch more kingfish 80% of the time.


You are dead on about the peeler. From what I understand, the female crab can only have sex when she is soft and, as you know, that is only a few hour window. To facilitate her hooking up she emits a sex pheromone in the peeler and soft phase to attract the jimmys. Not all fish can handle a hard crab, but they all can chow down on a soft one. So, over the evolutionary eons fish have learned that the smell of crab love often leads to a delectable soft delicacy and they come running. Have you ever heard any of the Eastern Shore old salts talk about baiting their hook with an Eastern Shore Sandwich, clam/peeler/clam?


----------



## solid7

JAM said:


> DITS, SOLID7 and old SK sounds to me like they all hang together, talk the Talk but don't walk the walk.. .. Several 2 and 1/2 pounders woud be amazing considering my friend the Mullet Master has ONE..


I didn't say anything about catching 2 1/2 pounders. I wasn't even being a wiseass. It was YOU, JAM, who said in other posts that you are on the water EVERY DAY. Sorry, if I can't even make a half-hearted (friendly) statement without offending you.

If you need me to post pics, though, I'll submit them. We'll put them in the "non-River Rig" section, though, just so everyone know that it's actually POSSIBLE to catch a fish on something else...


----------



## DrumintheSuds

solid7 said:


> I didn't say anything about catching 2 1/2 pounders. I wasn't even being a wiseass. It was YOU, JAM, who said in other posts that you are on the water EVERY DAY. Sorry, if I can't even make a half-hearted statement without offending you.


It was mainly aimed at me dude but it's cool......For some reason JAM has had his period on this particular thread.


----------



## dudeondacouch

Geez... is something in the water down there? The Hatteras crew is getting almost as uppity as the yankee striper folks.


----------



## NC KingFisher

Please dont lock this thread mods this is to freaken funny everyone crapping on each other


----------



## solid7

JAM said:


> 10 percent of the Fishermen catch 90 percent of the Fish, I know where I stand..


It's usually the 10 percent who catch the most fish that also spend the most time on the water. Flat out skill isn't always necessarily a factor. And if it is, it's only BECAUSE they have (had) the luxury of putting the time on the water. (practice makes perfect, so they say)

I get to fish on weekends. I don't catch 90% of the fish, and I don't have any problem admitting it. In fact, I would never make such an immodest claim. I catch what I catch, and if you are the better fisherman than me, God bless you - I'm perfectly OK with that.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

solid7 said:


> It's usually the 10 percent who catch the most fish that also spend the most time on the water. Flat out skill isn't always necessarily a factor. And if it is, it's only BECAUSE they have (had) the luxury of putting the time on the water. (practice makes perfect, so they say)
> 
> I get to fish on weekends. I don't catch 90% of the fish, and I don't have any problem admitting it. In fact, I would never make such an immodest claim. I catch what I catch, and if you are the better fisherman than me, God bless you - I'm perfectly OK with that.


There is something to be said for time on the water and easy access to it. Somebody who fishes nearly everyday SHOULD put some fish on the beach......


----------



## NC KingFisher

Will yall just leave JAM alone please. Theres other people that spend lots of time on the water. He has a job at a tackle shop and he probably runs lots of charters to so he is more concered about his customers catching fish than him. Another thing is maybe he doesnt post his stuff. He is no doubt a great fisherman. Give the guy a break


----------



## jakuka

solid7 said:


> I get to fish on weekends. I don't catch 90% of the fish, and I don't have any problem admitting it. In fact, I would never make such an immodest claim. I catch what I catch, and if you are the better fisherman than me, God bless you - I'm perfectly OK with that.


Oh man, I am disappointed! Here all along you had me believing you could speak Pompanese.


----------



## New Kent Newbie

All of this over catching sea mullet? Its really not rocket science.


----------



## solid7

NC KingFisher said:


> Will yall just leave JAM alone please. Theres other people that spend lots of time on the water. He has a job at a tackle shop and he probably runs lots of charters to so he is more concered about his customers catching fish than him. Another thing is maybe he doesnt post his stuff. He is no doubt a great fisherman. Give the guy a break


I'm not breaking his balls... that was a misunderstanding from the beginning.

I have no doubt he is a great fisherman. Peace on my end...


----------



## AbuMike

Dude yes you were.......lol


----------



## RuddeDogg

dudeondacouch said:


> Geez... is something in the water down there? The Hatteras crew is getting almost as uppity as the yankee striper folks.


I got your uppity...............


----------



## jamesvafisher

New Kent Newbie said:


> All of this over catching sea mullet? Its really not rocket science.


+1


----------



## solid7

AbuMike said:


> Dude yes you were.......lol


Well, I'm going to make a public apology to him... And to you, Mike. (for earlier comments) I like to talk fishing, shoot a little ****, and troll a bit of trouble sometimes, but ain't no fishing forum banter worth making life enemies over. There's plenty of other things we'll be able to agree on later, no point in mucking it up over something that don't mean nothin', anyway.

This topic got a little out of hand, but I really wasn't trying to piss anyone off. I have said what I have to say, I'm leaving it at that...


----------



## AbuMike

RuddeDogg said:


> I got your uppity...............



LMAO......hahahahahaha....we love ya though brother....


----------



## CrawFish

Pompanese - lmao.....


----------



## NTKG

Really??? are we still talking about monkeys and pomps? REally????? 

End of the day is this. And I don't care WHO says what about this. 

Give anyone a river rig. Give the old asian guy with the white bucket his regular rig. I know who's gonna catch more fish.


----------



## AbuMike

NTKG said:


> Really??? are we still talking about monkeys and pomps? REally?????
> 
> End of the day is this. And I don't care WHO says what about this.
> 
> Give anyone a river rig. Give the old asian guy with the white bucket his regular rig. I know who's gonna catch more fish.


You had to go there......hahahahahahahaha


----------



## dudeondacouch

"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a fishing war with an old Asian man" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line!"


----------



## jakuka

NTKG said:


> are we still talking about monkeys and pomps?


Did you run out of popcorn or something? You see, when this thread dies...the supreme title of Pomp King dies with it. It's okay though. I'll be able to cope cause I was never in the running. I am only a pompanito.


----------



## NTKG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6qWlSB6eOI&feature=relmfu


----------



## AL_N_VB

Wow River Rigs should be flying off the shelves like Sham-Wows...this thread shows you the power of indiscrete advertising , the power of " word of mouth" and "proof is in the pictures".
I, for one tie my own bait rigs, esp for sea monkeys, spot, croaker, blues..ect..but 19+ PAGES devoted to a rig has to be record. Mono vs fluro, mallets vs rocking in a sand spike, fish do or do not hear you, red, green, pink, purple bead, North vs South...and it can go on. I think we can agree that at the end of the day that we are all fishermen-women that do what we love and expect to get a jerk at the end of the line and hopefully reel in a fish, big or small. So do what you do that hooks the fish and fufills your angling needs. What works for you might not work for anyone else. Its not rocket science, it fishing. No need to troll, bash or disrespect. Tight lines..I will go back to counting sheepshead so I can sleep.


----------



## AbuMike

That was a non paid PSA advertisement from one of you sponsors. Now back to your regularly scheduled rig bashing....


----------



## RuddeDogg

abumike said:


> that was a non paid psa advertisement from one of you sponsors. Now back to your regularly scheduled rig bashing....


lmao!!!!!!


----------



## DrumintheSuds

NC KingFisher said:


> Will yall just leave JAM alone please. Theres other people that spend lots of time on the water. He has a job at a tackle shop and he probably runs lots of charters to so he is more concered about his customers catching fish than him. Another thing is maybe he doesnt post his stuff. He is no doubt a great fisherman. Give the guy a break


Yeah but there are certainly better ways to go about conversing with people. The thread obviously went in different directions but a lot of good came of it IMO. I have no doubt he is a great angler......so is River but River conducted himself with a little more class if you ask me.


----------



## jmadre

There's some bogus info in this thread. I fished in the washing machine as someone mentioned earlier, and all I caught a sock and a pair of underwear.


----------



## jakuka

AbuMike said:


> That was a non paid PSA advertisement from one of you sponsors. Now back to your regularly scheduled rig bashing....


Funny stuff right there.


----------



## NTKG

jmadre said:


> pair of underwear.


i hope they were clean.

you know if you want to clean clothes in the washing machine you have to buy and only use a high efficiency unit. THe other ones won't work. What kind of detergent? Water temp? Did you add bleach? Did you slam the door shut, cause the clothes feel it and it makes them angry.


----------



## jakuka

jmadre said:


> There's some bogus info in this thread. I fished in the washing machine as someone mentioned earlier, and all I caught a sock and a pair of underwear.


Nice!


----------



## NC KingFisher

LMAO Now will someone please pass the opcorn: and bring me a :beer:


----------



## dudeondacouch

I hope this thread is as entertaining from the east coast as it is from the caribbean.


----------



## MadHat

*This Rig Catches Fish*

My name is Darr Barshis. I’m not on the internet very often, but heard about this blog. Most of my time is spent fishing on the beach. I have probably fished with a lot of you in Hatteras, Buxton, or Avon. I’m the one with the aluminum crutch sticking out of the back of my Tundra truck. I feel compelled to put my 2 cents in on this rig – especially since it won me a fishing trophy in 2010.
Reckon I met “River” in 2008 or 2009. I fish the beach every day and it doesn’t take long to meet others who do too. River and I collaborate from time to time to keep up on fish movement and location.
I was never much of a “mullet head”. I usually sink big cut baits, or cast artificial lures for trout, flounder, spanish, puppies, or blues. I’m an aggressive fisherman and when it comes to rigging and bait I like to KISS (keep it simple stupid). 
The story I want to relay is my first sea mullet fishing experience with River in 2010. I had prior fished with River a few times, sinking big baits next to his sea mullet rigs. He would catch fish left and right and have fresh fish for dinner most every night. Often I would sit there waiting for the big bite and get skunked.
On more than one occasion the story with River was the same. River caught fish and those around him, using the same bait, WERE NOT CATCHING A THING! More than once a frustrated fisherman would come up to us and say “I have watched you and am using the same bait, casting the same distance, and using the same weight. What is it you are doing to catch fish that I am not?!”
On one occasion there was a particularly frustrated pair of fishermen. River and I were entertaining my doctor’s wife and her girlfriends. The ladies had been fishing on a boat that week without much success. River told them he knew a sea mullet hole on the beach and could get them some fresh fish to take home for the freezer. We caught nice sea mullet, one after the other, all day long. We were fishing next to a pair of fishermen who were obviously getting more and more frustrated as the day went on. One finally came over and started talking. “Never in my life”, he said, “have I been out fished by a group of women like I have been out fished today. What are you doing that I am not doing?” He knew we were using the same bait (sand fleas), and his rigs looked similar. But I knew what the difference was.
Let me back up and give you a bit of perspective on this fisherman nicknamed “River”. This is not your “normal” meet on the beach. A retired airplane maintenance supervisor, River is constantly thinking about what is happening under water. I have always said you need to think like a fish to catch fish. Water clarity, state of the tide, best predator attack point in the structure present, where the bait is most likely to pool, etc.? That’s how River developed his rigs. Just the right amount of leader to float a bait and make it look like it’s drifting naturally; fluorocarbon to make it invisible; the right pound test to hold the bait in place; hooks sized to take a 1 lb sea mullet to a 30 lb striper, etc. Don’t try to outthink it. I guarantee you, this rig has already been fully evaluated by more hours than you want to spend.
So, back to 2010. It was a warm December day at Hatteras Inlet. For a number of days in a row River and I had been catching puppy drum at the Inlet casting artificial lures. On this particular day the water had calmed, almost to a slick. The puppy drum bite had completely died. River said to me “I know you don’t normally fish for sea mullet, but I know where we can probably get into some nice sized fish on Frisco Beach.” I was hungry for fresh fish for dinner that night. River said he would tie me one of his rigs and let me use some of the fleas he had dug. I took the bait and we met at his hole up the beach. While I was baiting up River pulled in a keeper puppy drum on his first cast. We continued to catch nice sized sea mullet on a fairly regular bite. Then my rod went down – and mine was a pretty stiff 9’ Tika rod. I pulled the fish onto the beach. River yelled down from his truck “nice puppy drum”. I yelled back “it’s not a puppy, it’s a sea mullet!” He walked down and said that was one of the biggest sea mullet he had seen that season and I should see if it qualified in the Hatteras Anglers Club members tournament. It did qualify, and took top honors for the biggest sea mullet of the season at 2 lb 6 3/4 oz. The plaque is hanging on my wall at Durant Station Condos in Hatteras. River’s rig, River’s hole, River’s bait, even River’s suggestion to have it measured! Better lucky than good I always say.
There’s probably going to be some who say they’ve been throwing this rig for years, or that they invented it. Well, they didn’t tie it for me or you, or work to make it available in the tackle shop. We can thank River for that. 
I still love throwing a big bait and casting artificials. At 58 years old, I’m going to do it as long as I can. But, when I need fish for the table, there is only one rig I tie on my rod. It’s a River Rig. It catches fish, plain and simple. With a sand flea or a bit of shrimp it catches sea mullet, pompano, black and red drum, toads, flounder, and an occasional trout. It catches fish when everyone else on the beach is getting blanked. If you haven’t yet been the one catching when everyone else isn’t, you’re gonna love this rig. 
Thanks again for the trophy River. Looking forward to my next.


----------



## dudeondacouch

MadHat said:


> WordFort


TL;DR;YouWin.


----------



## RuddeDogg

jmadre said:


> There's some bogus info in this thread. I fished in the washing machine as someone mentioned earlier, and all I caught a sock and a pair of underwear.


Now that's funny!!!!!! 

BTW welcoms MadHat. Great read.


----------



## JAM

*Not Quite Sure Where I was Being a D#CK and doubt You would talk to me like that In*



DrumintheSuds said:


> JAM
> 
> Who cares? I gave the riverrig and River a positive thumbs up so I'm not sure what more you want. I don't owe you anything.......I'm just a guy who loves to fish and I try and contribute when I can to help others who want to have a decent conversation. Not sure what your reasons are for being a D*ck.


Person...

Don't want anything and I never said ya owed me snot, I am that same guy that LOVES to Fish and Turn people on to and Help them improve there fishing each and every day, matter of Fact that is my Job. I have helped people Catch there very first Citations in all catogories of Fish for the last Decade. I like to pass on Information that was taught to me by others, as i have not invented a thing, I have just learned over a life time. I never said I was Good, Bad or Indifferent, I just Fish and Teach, cause its what I love to do. 

When I Weigh fish in on a Daily Basis and See maybe ONE 2 1/2 pound Sea Mullet A year, in a Time Span of over a Decade and hear tales of Grandure, of Several in one Fishing Trip, my BS Detector goes off the Rictor. I'm all in for fun and take none of this nonsense serious, but I will call BS when I smell BS.. Thats all I did. 

If the River Rig were not so Magical, I would be seeing more Citations on The Sea Striker DPR8, becuase I sell Thousands of those each Year, at least 20 to one, because of price. Being on the Front Line, I get to see what works and what don't, caught a Striper on a HotDog once, don't mean I'm gonna use hotdogs everytime I striper fish. 

I can just Tout what I see First Hand, back it up with Pictures (MyJob), try it out for myself, and pass on the Information, and results.. Done, Done and Done.. I am not even a Beach Fisherman anymore, had to try the rig for myself, did 3 times, with execelent results.. Gonna do the Same with the Pompano, all in fun.. 

If it walks like a Duck and Talks like a Duck, chances are its a Duck.. Call Them as I see Them, always have and always will. 

Nothing Personal Taken or given for that Matter.. Argueing with folks on the Internet is just Like the Special Olympics.. SomeOnes gonna Win.. But Really..

JAM


----------



## DrumintheSuds

JAM

If you feel like you need to question other folks that's your business. If your BS meter goes off....your business. You take pictures of peoples citations......your business and good for you. A 2 1/2 pound sea mullet isn't that rare. In fact I have read fishing reports from the RDT website in the past of people catching them all up and down the beach. They aren't uncommon on PI where I fish and I don't doubt the guy that caught them.

Like I said numerous times I like the riverrig and think River is a classy dude.


----------



## JAM

DrumintheSuds said:


> JAM
> 
> A 2 1/2 pound sea mullet isn't that rare. In fact I have read fishing reports from the RDT website in the past of people catching them all up and down the beach. They aren't uncommon on PI where I fish and I don't doubt the guy that caught them.
> 
> Like I said numerous times I like the riverrig and think River is a classy dude.


DITS look to the Source, Dude, I live here, 2 1/2 poud Sea Mullets are rare, used to work at the Other Place and well Nuff said on That one.. If I see ONE fish a year that size thats a big deal.. 

River is the best and so is his rig. 

I did not Stoop to Name calling, such as Dick, on my period, and that I have no class, and I have no comeback for any of that nonsense. But being you are going to stick to the 2 pound 8 ounce Sea Mullet is Common Place, I will just step right off and call you what you are a LIAR.. I guess you must think I am a Moron, do you not remember calling me last month to ship River Rigs to ya.. So I know who you are as well , and I will gladley dicuss wether I am a Dick or Not to u in person, next time I see you down here.. 

JAM


----------



## HuskyMD

Worst thread on p&s - ever


----------



## DrumintheSuds

JAM said:


> DITS look to the Source, Dude, I live here, 2 1/2 poud Sea Mullets are rare, used to work at the Other Place and well Nuff said on That one.. If I see ONE fish a year that size thats a big deal..
> 
> River is the best and so is his rig.
> 
> I did not Stoop to Name calling, such as Dick, on my period, and that I have no class, and I have no comeback for any of that nonsense. But being you are going to stick to the 2 pound 8 ounce Sea Mullet is Common Place, I will just step right off and call you what you are a LIAR.. I guess you must think I am a Moron, do you not remember calling me last month to ship River Rigs to ya.. So I know who you are as well , and I will gladley dicuss wether I am a Dick or Not to u in person, next time I see you down here..
> 
> JAM


I think you have a reading comprehension problem my friend. I didn't say a 2 1/2 lb sea mullet is "common place"....I said it wasn't "uncommon" where I FISH. I have seen them that big and I have caught them that big on North and South Core. I could care less about your BS alarm or flag or whatever you call it. 

And I never called you about any riverrig so NO you don't know who I am. I ordered one from Melinda at Tradewinds (another classy person).....


----------



## JAM

*Dits*

I am so sorry that I can not be as Classy and as Perfect as YOU, I think you have a SYMENTICS Problem and like to hear yourself type. If something is Not Un-Common, it would be safe to say it is Common, or Common Place.. 

I gave up giving a Sh!t what people think about me Many Many years ago, let alone an Internet Fisherman.. I call em like I see em and You my friend (as I stoop down to you level) are the D!CK.. 

Don't Hate the Player, Hate the Game.. 

BTW enjoy the Rat Race, I'm Goin Fishin.. 

JAM


----------



## RuddeDogg

Guys, guys, guys, guys........A wise man once said, "Can't we just all get along?" We can agree to disagree. Look, let's all hold hands and sing Kumbaya. Solid and AbuMike can show us how to make flower jewelry.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

JAM said:


> I am so sorry that I can not be as Classy and as Perfect as YOU, I think you have a SYMENTICS Problem and like to hear yourself type. If something is Not Un-Common, it would be safe to say it is Common, or Common Place..
> 
> I gave up giving a Sh!t what people think about me Many Many years ago, let alone an Internet Fisherman.. I call em like I see em and You my friend (as I stoop down to you level) are the D!CK..
> 
> Don't Hate the Player, Hate the Game..
> 
> BTW enjoy the Rat Race, I'm Goin Fishin..
> 
> JAM


Hope you catch a bunch!


----------



## arich_5

DrumintheSuds said:


> And I never called you about any riverrig so NO you don't know who I am. I ordered one from Melinda at Tradewinds (another classy person).....


I called and ordered 2 from you last month...don't come down here looking for me lol. If I hear a knock on the door and someone yelling "DrumintheSuds, I'm here to kick your ass!" I'll be sure not to answer.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

arich_5 said:


> i called and ordered 2 from you last month...don't come down here looking for me lol. If i hear a knock on the door and someone yelling "druminthesuds, i'm here to kick your ass!" i'll be sure not to answer.


lol.......


----------



## solid7

RuddeDogg said:


> Solid and AbuMike can show us how to make flower jewelry.


Hey, I got no problems with anyone here, whether it be mike, the coppers, whoever. I try to stay away from that "Point of no return," and for me, this thread ended awhile back.

As for you, Dogg, the only botany that you will learn from me, is where you can plant your tulips, if you know what I mean.


----------



## HStew

There purported to be a sub-species of drum (puppy) found from Hatteras area to Cape Lookout that have no visible or barely visible spot(s) on their tail as juveniles until they reach 2 1/2 to 3 lbs. This sub-species is more prevalent from Drum Inlet at Portsmouth to Cape Lookout. This is probably the fish being discussed, not the northern,southern or gulf.


----------



## [email protected]

Back before flouro came out, a friend showed me how to tie a hi-lo in one piece of mono with no hardware and using a different shape of lead. I caught more fish after I started using those rigs. Then I started tying mine in flouro, and did better. It does no harm to take advice from success whether that advice is on the beach or from a little package at the tackle shop. Since my odds of chatting River up on the beach are slim, I'll get it from the tackle shop. Couldn't hurt. Thanks Jam.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

solid7 said:


> Hey, I got no problems with anyone here, whether it be mike, the coppers, whoever. I try to stay away from that "Point of no return," and for me, this thread ended awhile back.
> 
> As for you, Dogg, the only botany that you will learn from me, is where you can plant your tulips, if you know what I mean.


Agreed....Last thing I care to do is argue with somebody over a damn fish OR the rig that catches them.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

HStew said:


> There purported to be a sub-species of drum (puppy) found from Hatteras area to Cape Lookout that have no visible or barely visible spot(s) on their tail as juveniles until they reach 2 1/2 to 3 lbs. This sub-species is more prevalent from Drum Inlet at Portsmouth to Cape Lookout. This is probably the fish being discussed, not the northern,southern or gulf.


That is interesting because the guy who caught these big mullet the other week said they looked like rat drum. The big fish I caught last August looked more like a rat drum but did have the black tipped tail even though it wasn't that distinct


----------



## JAM

*Rigs are on the Way Shane*



[email protected] said:


> Back before flouro came out, a friend showed me how to tie a hi-lo in one piece of mono with no hardware and using a different shape of lead. I caught more fish after I started using those rigs. Then I started tying mine in flouro, and did better. It does no harm to take advice from success whether that advice is on the beach or from a little package at the tackle shop. Since my odds of chatting River up on the beach are slim, I'll get it from the tackle shop. Couldn't hurt. Thanks Jam.


Great Chatting with you, see ya when ya get down here maybe we can soak some bait.. 

JAM


----------



## NC KingFisher

RuddeDogg said:


> Guys, guys, guys, guys........A wise man once said, "Can't we just all get along?" We can agree to disagree. Look, let's all hold hands and sing Kumbaya. Solid and AbuMike can show us how to make flower jewelry.





arich_5 said:


> I called and ordered 2 from you last month...don't come down here looking for me lol. If I hear a knock on the door and someone yelling "DrumintheSuds, I'm here to kick your ass!" I'll be sure not to answer.





solid7 said:


> Hey, I got no problems with anyone here, whether it be mike, the coppers, whoever. I try to stay away from that "Point of no return," and for me, this thread ended awhile back.
> 
> As for you, Dogg, the only botany that you will learn from me, is where you can plant your tulips, if you know what I mean.


Alls i have to say is LMAO and solid only you would say that. Now we just need WD to come in here and beat Semi liquid 1 back in line


----------



## solid7

NC KingFisher said:


> Alls i have to say is LMAO and solid only you would say that.


Nah.... there's a few other clever chaps around here, too 



NC KingFisher said:


> Now we just need WD to come in here and beat Semi liquid 1 back in line


WD - you bein' summoned, nad... Where you at? Can you hear this man callin' you from under that rock?


----------



## surfchunker

all I know is in two weeks we will be in Frisco and I will for sure buy a couple and take my new spool of 30lb Pink Yo-Zuri Flouro down with me ...


----------



## bluetick1955

I bought a couple, I guess the shipped USPS,............................ Hope they get here. Long way from Sunset Beach to get rigs


----------



## RuddeDogg

solid7 said:


> Hey, I got no problems with anyone here, whether it be mike, the coppers, whoever. I try to stay away from that "Point of no return," and for me, this thread ended awhile back.
> 
> As for you, Dogg, the only botany that you will learn from me, is where you can plant your tulips, if you know what I mean.


It's all good.


----------



## NTKG

RuddeDogg said:


> It's all good.


so..... uh the dogg wants to know where to put his tulips?

lol.


----------



## RuddeDogg

NTKG said:


> so..... uh the dogg wants to know where to put his tulips?
> 
> lol.


No one asked you NIEL!!!!!!!


----------



## dudeondacouch

dudeondacouch said:


> Woe to whomever has to clean out this thread to compile all the good info.


Still applies. :fishing:


----------



## Garboman

I would forward this entire thread to the Sham Wow guy and let him put the 
River Rig on the Sham Wow "Money Train" 20,000 views and counting

For the Infomercial you could have a so couple of "old time pros like Solid and Couch" set up in a hole and then a total newbie group of Sea Mullet fishermen say like Garbo (Who only wanted the heads from Sea Mullet previously, and has been known to slide a live Sea Mullet out into Shark infested waters off the end of the Rodanthe) and a couple of the Kitty Hawk Hooters chicks put the "River" to them

Should be money...............


----------



## Shooter

I hear the clock of doom ticking over the name calling and other non-sence. This crap keeps up and time up bell will sound for this thread.


----------



## NC KingFisher

In the words of sprtsracer......GO BACK TO SLEEP SHOOTER


----------



## solid7

Garboman said:


> For the Infomercial you could have a so couple of "old time pros like Solid and Couch" set up in a hole and then a total newbie group of Sea Mullet fishermen say like Garbo


No sir... I can't participate. It's in my non-compete clause. I'm sponsored by the Chinese brand...


----------



## dudeondacouch

I'm in, but I only work for beer. And I get to keep all the fish. And I get to use my own equipment. (50lb cajun red mono mainline on 12' Okuma Tundra combos.) :fishing:


----------



## Cdog

Shooter said:


> I hear the clock of doom ticking over the name calling and other non-sence. This crap keeps up and time up bell will sound for this thread.


Shut up Shooter! This is a classic.. You whack this and I guarantee you wont fish on Eric's boat again...opcorn:


----------



## Plug

Garboman said:


> I would forward this entire thread to the Sham Wow guy and let him put the
> River Rig on the Sham Wow "Money Train" 20,000 views and counting


Trouble is the sham wow guy got put in the slammer for beating up a hooker. But I guess he's out by now so on second thought he'd be the perfect barker.


----------



## AbuMike

Now y'all be nice to the Mods. For without them we would destroy ourselves.....Really !!!!


----------



## JAM

*29,000 Views*

I've done my Job..and Good On River.. Great product.. .. LOL..

JAM


----------



## AbuMike

JAM said:


> I've done my Job..and Good On River.. Great product.. .. LOL..
> 
> JAM


Indeed it has. If nothing else it got the word out too a lot of folks...Looking forward to getting mine..


----------



## Cdog

AbuMike said:


> Indeed it has. If nothing else it got the word out too a lot of folks...Looking forward to getting mine..


Mike I got a spare one if ya want it.


----------



## AbuMike

Cdog said:


> Mike I got a spare one if ya want it.


thanks i called jam and got some...


----------



## RocknReds

River: Have you painted your sinkers the color of sand for more camo effect. It works on those flat sinkers I gave you last spring.


----------



## sleepyhead

Maybe the next sticker should be the River Rig "wuz worth it". With a Roundhead saying it.


----------



## Charlie2

RocknReds said:


> River: Have you painted your sinkers the color of sand for more camo effect. It works on those flat sinkers I gave you last spring.


Not River; but I paint my sinkers fluorescent orange. C2


----------



## solid7

Charlie2 said:


> Not River; but I paint my sinkers fluorescent orange. C2


I use that trick for flounder... (but yellow)

I'm still not sure if it catches more flounder, but it doesn't hurt any.


----------



## HStew

I spray paint mine Flo.orange or chart., and yel.(yel. is very transparent so dip them or spray white first). Easier to see if you drop them on the beach and encapsulates the lead.


----------



## greg12345

always put a coat of primer / white on first, helps the orange as well as the yellow. i use fluorescent orange sinkers but haven't been able to tell a difference so far. when i'm using sputniks i will take off the beads that come with them and put my own preference color beads on...


----------



## sleepyhead

What do you use a sputnik for?


----------



## RuddeDogg

sleepyhead said:


> What do you use a sputnik for?


Surf fishing.


----------



## solid7

sleepyhead said:


> What do you use a sputnik for?


Sputniks are great when you haven't got a rod rated for 8 oz, but you need a sinker that will hold in surf that's rated higher than 4 oz. (for example) They work fantastically well.


----------



## AbuMike

sleepyhead said:


> What do you use a sputnik for?



A conversation piece..................


----------



## greg12345

i pretty much pompano fish exclusively with sputniks...3oz to 4.5oz...usually if 3oz isn't holding then i'm wasting my time but when i'm being stubborn and the water is green i will go up to 4.5 oz...circle hook, spiked rod, sputnik...take a nap, wake up & reel in a fish at your convenience.


----------



## surfchunker

Oh no ... now The Great P&S Sinker Wars ..... 3 sided or 4 sided Pyramids, Frog tounge, Storm or Sputniks ....oh my the Pages


----------



## solid7

The sputniks are good for when you have a bait set way out, and you don't necessarily have huge waves, but enough action to put leverage on the line over a long distance. A good way to ensure it doesn't slip. When I pompano fish, I like the line nice and tight, and the sputnik gets that for me.

Can't speak for other people, but here in Florida, we use 'em quite a bit. They also have better castability than a pyramid, but they hold better than a tear drop. Kinda the best of both worlds.


----------



## Charlie2

I will use up to a 5oz sputnik if conditions dictate such.

If that doesn't hold, I'm going home. 

I use a sputnik on my Long Ranger setup for fishing the second and third bars for Big Redfish.C2


----------



## AbuMike

I'm sure they are to those guys throwing their baited rigs 200+yds......


----------



## solid7

AbuMike said:


> I'm sure they are to those guys throwing their baited rigs 200+yds......


Yeah, everyone gets that YOU don't use them, so they have no valid function... You made your point.


----------



## AbuMike

solid7 said:


> Yeah, everyone gets that YOU don't use them, so they have no valid function... You made your point.



You know what......That was not directed at you but since you decided to reply..........Screw you.......


----------



## bluetick1955

keeps going and going and going and going


----------



## solid7

AbuMike said:


> You know what......That was not directed at you but since you decided to reply..........Screw you.......


Well... Who was it directed at? Be helpful if it were clear. Cause this is how I read it:



> solid7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They also have better castability than a pyramid, but they hold better than a tear drop. Kinda the best of both worlds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AbuMike said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure they are to those guys throwing their baited rigs 200+yds......
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

It's pretty hard to tell what you're trying to say when you drop random lines of smartassery with no inline quotes - in places where they happen to make sense.

But I did get the "screw you" part. If only all of your posts were that clear, it would be helpful...


----------



## dudeondacouch

I leave my weights unpainted, because googan.


----------



## AL_N_VB

I have had this discussion and debate with my friend Matt. I brought this up at dinner and my daughter is adamant that she help paint "pretty" crabs on all my sinkers. She sez my sinkers are too bright and dull. She sez the pretty paintings will attract more fish. I hope the paints hold up and I will post pics of my sinkers on my hand tied rigs that do catch fish. Peeps.... The fish are chewing...let's go catch sum fish!


----------



## RuddeDogg

solid7 said:


> Sputniks are great when you haven't got a rod rated for 8 oz, but you need a sinker that will hold in surf that's rated higher than 4 oz. (for example) They work fantastically well.


I use them from 4 to 8 oz. Don't really like them but they work.


----------



## mljeep

Almost hate to ask a question of River about his river rig given how this thread has gone, but here goes. Given that this rig is built stealthy with fluro and no snaps or swivels, how do you connect it to your main line or shock leader? Loop to loop, no name to the rigs loop or what? Thanks.


----------



## sleepyhead

I know they are used for surf fishing.... DUH!!! I don't see why anyone would use one. I always thought they were a sales gimmick.


----------



## Charlie2

sleepyhead said:


> I know they are used for surf fishing.... DUH!!! I don't see why anyone would use one. I always thought they were a sales gimmick.


They are a very important piece of gear that is used when you need to hold position in a strong current.

I don't cast 200 yards with 8 ounces. I cast 200 yards a 15 foot anchor rod,with a 5 oz sputnik only, then slide 8 oz(and heavier) baits down the line. When a fish hits it, I use my second(fighting) rod to land the fish. 

My 15 foot anchor rod on a 5 foot spike provides adequate clearance above the waves. JMHO C2


----------



## JAM

*You got it, a Loop to Loop*



mljeep said:


> Almost hate to ask a question of River about his river rig given how this thread has gone, but here goes. Given that this rig is built stealthy with fluro and no snaps or swivels, how do you connect it to your main line or shock leader? Loop to loop, no name to the rigs loop or what? Thanks.


It also makes it easy to take your rig off and store it. Using Braided lIne I tie on a 25 pound piece of Flouro and Loop it.. 

JAM


----------



## River

Long loop goes through the eye of the sinker and loops the sinker on, short Loop attaches to main line using your faverite knot, some people do use swivels on the short loop but I don't. I run my main line through the short loop and double it back pulling the complete rig through an tie an overhand knot. I will wet the knots as I tighten em down - River


----------



## mljeep

JAM, River, thinks for your comments!


----------



## sleepyhead

Hey river or jam do ya use a Sputnik?


----------



## JAM

*No Sir, Never Have*

Mark, 
How many Ice-Cubes, In a Small Bag of Ice?? 

JAM


----------



## solid7

sleepyhead said:


> Hey river or jam do ya use a Sputnik?


Those things only work in Florida and New Jersey. LOL


----------



## River

*Never*

I'm a 100% with Jam on that one - River


----------



## jmadre

sleepyhead said:


> I know they are used for surf fishing.... DUH!!! I don't see why anyone would use one. I always thought they were a sales gimmick.


Mark, I've used them when the current is running strong off of Frisco. The flat, hard bottom makes it hard for a pyramid to hold if there's much current. They do a pretty good job on that type of beach.

River, I got Sea Mullet citations #2 (Friday) and #3 (Saturday) on a river rig. We landed 2 Pomps yesterday on them (the largest was 1.87 pounds), as well as a mullet that also missed citation by a couple of ounces. The guy next to us landed a smaller Pomp. Otherwise we saw no other fish caught by anyone else.


----------



## solid7

jmadre said:


> Mark, I've used them when the current is running strong off of Frisco. The flat, hard bottom makes it hard for a pyramid to hold if there's much current. They do a pretty good job on that type of beach.


They also help the hold with no stretch lines. (i.e. - braid) It seems to me that Sputniks might not be a good match for River Rigs. Sputniks work great for traditional drop rigs, where your drops don't get close enough to get tangled up in the weight.


----------



## jmadre

solid7 said:


> They also help the hold with no stretch lines. (i.e. - braid) It seems to me that Sputniks might not be a good match for River Rigs. Sputniks work great for traditional drop rigs, where your drops don't get close enough to get tangled up in the weight.


Yep, I got some tangles. But I couldn't get a 6 oz. frog tongue to hold the day I used it with a river rig, so it was either use the 5 oz. sputnik or enjoy a "nice beach day". With that combination, I was able to catch several fish that day.


----------



## jay b

The larger spudniks work great for wreck anchors on the yak, small parachute line + 1 or 2 8oz. spudniks and you'll sit just fine on top of any structure like the 1st island or a jetty.

I always go loop to loop for a rig like that when you're trying to remain "stealthy" plus it's easier to take it off, spider hitch on the end of the running line and you're there, just make it big enough to pull the entire rig through.

Question (I know, I'm sorry, probably better for another thread but all the "good" opinions are already here) I'm reading a lot of guys that are saying they use braid for beach/bait fishing and I got to ask why. IMHO a decent quality mono that's made to be abrasive resistant is much better suited for that and the only time I use braid at the beach is for tossing lures so it's less likely to rub on the bottom where the shells are.

Shells on bottom + braid on bottom = nicked braid = cut braid = (-) $6.00 River Rig


----------



## surfchunker

I've used braid for years on my spinning rigs and have never had a break off or nicked/frayed line ... used mono for years then swapped and never had a problem ... Heavers with conventionals get mono though cause I don't want to have to mess with a braided birds nest


----------



## jmadre

jay b said:


> Shells on bottom + braid on bottom = nicked braid = cut braid = (-) $6.00 River Rig


On my main surf rod I have a Shimano Baitrunner 3500B loaded with 20# Fireline that I put on in 2006. I fish the surf almost every weekend from May-Oct (and my weekends are 3-day when school is out). I finally reversed the line last fall so I could use the fresh end.

I would probably have respooled at least 10 times if I were using mono. In addition, I get to enjoy the benefits of braid.

As far as being cut, braid is not easily cut unless it is under tension. It's difficult for it to be under tension yet still laying on the bottom. It could happen over the bar, but mono would probably suffer the same fate. When fish for Pomps and Mullet I leave slack in the line to keep the sinker from moving so quickly in the current.


----------



## solid7

jay b said:


> Question (I know, I'm sorry, probably better for another thread but all the "good" opinions are already here) I'm reading a lot of guys that are saying they use braid for beach/bait fishing and I got to ask why. IMHO a decent quality mono that's made to be abrasive resistant is much better suited for that and the only time I use braid at the beach is for tossing lures so it's less likely to rub on the bottom where the shells are.


Braid = line capacity. Bigger fish on smaller reels. Smaller diameter = easier to tie knots.

My main line never drags the bottom, so I can't see where abrasion is a problem. (shock leader has to be changed once in a while, but that goes without saying)


----------



## surfchunker

really with a whatever rig with mono/ flouro the braid never touches anything unless like they said your over the bar in a deep hole maybe ... for my 8-10' eatin fish setups for me braid is the answer


----------



## greg12345

Here's what's good about sputniks: allows you to hold with way less weight, this let's you get away with lighter rods/tackle, which when you are fishing for 2lb fish makes it more fun even when you are just putting fish in the cooler for dinner.

The bad: pricey, if you break it off can be a real danger if flying through the air or if it is stepped on by waders, not that stealthy (wires, beads, etc. sticking out), tangles your long drops, will spin like crazy when you reel it in so you will need a swivel either at the sinker or between the rig and mainline.

I guess it is a moot point if you don't mind pomp/mullet fishing with a rod that can throw 8oz...might as well reel 'em in with a crane


----------



## RuddeDogg

These are the ones I use from 3oz to 8oz


----------



## Plug

If you are spiking multiple rods and a doggie, garbo, surf poodle or somesuch carries you down the beach it REALLY hoses up your chit. You might have a chance of salvaging something with a smooth sinker but sputniks are a nightmare.


----------



## [email protected]

i need a glossary


----------



## AbuMike

Plug said:


> If you are spiking multiple rods and a *doggie, garbo, surf poodle or somesuch *carries you down the beach it REALLY hoses up your chit. You might have a chance of salvaging something with a smooth sinker but sputniks are a nightmare.


A big fish that will carry your junk down the beach to get tangled into everybodys else junk.


----------



## sleepyhead

JAM said:


> Mark,
> How many Ice-Cubes, In a Small Bag of Ice??
> 
> JAM


 None if it is HOT outside. :beer:


----------



## Plug

[email protected] said:


> i need a glossary


Sometimes it doesn't have to be a big one Mike. A 2' doggie is the worse.

Here you go Shane.

doggie - dogfish, bad for swimming down the beach with your chit

garbo - sand tiger, also bad for swimming down the beach with your chit

surf poodle - big hairy mass of seaweed that collects on your line, then the current catches it and carries it down the beach with your chit

hoses up - tangles badly

chit - your's or other's lines and leaders

Used in context, _"Man a f****n garbo took my northern most bait swam south and hosed up all my chit!_

Made all the worse by a sinker with a bunch of wires sticking out of it.


----------



## NC KingFisher

All small sharks will generally swim up or down the beach. Big sharks will swim straight out. Next time you hook the unstobbable submarine, notice hes probably runnig straight out. And btw guys, BRAID FLOATS


----------



## abass105

Used in context, "Man a f****n garbo took my northern most bait swam south and hosed up all my chit!

That is some funny "chit" right there I don't care who you are.


----------



## sleepyhead

The surf poodle is a new one for me..


----------



## RuddeDogg

surfchunker said:


> I've used braid for years on my spinning rigs and have never had a break off or nicked/frayed line ... used mono for years then swapped and never had a problem ... Heavers with conventionals get mono though cause I don't want to have to mess with a braided birds nest


Same here, but I do use braid on my 525 braid over mono and never had an issue with it. 

As for the Sputniks, as I have said before, I am not a BIG fan of them but I do use them because they work. As for being run down the beach, I have had that happen with Pyramids, Storm Sinkers, Frog Tongues and Sputniks. It happens and it's just as aggravating with any of the mentioned sinkers. But that's just me.


----------



## phillyguy

This has been some of the most entertaining reading ever on this site. By turns hilarious and informative. I have found that its even funnier if you read in a southern accent. Or as you folks would call it, talking normal. Anyway, I'm a buyer!


----------



## Hudak

phillyguy said:


> This has been some of the most entertaining reading ever on this site. By turns hilarious and informative. I have found that its even funnier if you read in a southern accent. Or as you folks would call it, talking normal. Anyway, I'm a buyer!


Now talkun like dat, ur gonna need to git from har! Don't be gettun to thankn Im playun, I don't hear no cottun pickun axcent!


----------



## Plug

NC KingFisher said:


> All small sharks will generally swim up or down the beach. Big sharks will swim straight out. Next time you hook the unstobbable submarine, notice hes probably runnig straight out. And btw guys, BRAID FLOATS


Generally yeah, but Garbos will go sideways, sometimes being the big bags o' chit (different usage Shane) they are they don't go anywhere. Never thought of them as an "unstobbable submarine". More like a swimming turd.


----------



## NC KingFisher

Plug said:


> Generally yeah, but Garbos will go sideways, sometimes being the big bags o' chit (different usage Shane) they are they don't go anywhere. Never thought of them as an "unstobbable submarine". More like a swimming turd.


I was talking bout the other sharks that hit on yalls drum rigs. I agree with the big floating turds cept shhhh dont tell anyone cause they aint supposed to be kept therye delicous


----------



## OBX Jay

*River Rig pictures*

This thread started out asking for a picture or diagram of the River Rig. I have not seen any pictures so I bought a couple and here are some pictures. Hope this helps.


----------



## SALTSHAKER

*river rig*

In all due respect I started this thread and asked for information on the rig, not for a diagram.... salt


----------



## dudeondacouch

Hopefully people are straining their eyes in an attempt to trace the line in those pics.


----------



## surfchunker

must be something to the basics of the rig I tied my Buddy up somethig similar and this is only the second time he has surffished and is tearing up the Pomps at Myrtle Beach ...


----------



## surfchunker

we will be down in Frsico in 1.5 weeks and will be sure to buy a couple ... especially the ones with beads since I don't have nothing but red ones


----------



## OBX Jay

SALTSHAKER said:


> In all due respect I started this thread and asked for information on the rig, not for a diagram.... salt


Sorry Salt, you're right, it was several posts in before someone asked for the diagram.


----------



## bronzbck1

You think you could post picture's of other rigs so everyone can COPY them too........geez


----------



## JAM

*I will Tell ya this,*

I "TRIED" to Copy the River Rig at first, without speaking to River, I will tell ya this, I had it all wrong.. Good Luck tryin to do it from a Picture..When someone purchases a River Rig in our Shop(The Roost Bait and Tackle), both River and I are more then Happy to show ya how to tie it, the Right way with the Right Hooks and the Right Flourocarbon. .. Don't Hate the Player, Hate the Game.. 

JAM


----------



## SALTSHAKER

*river rig*

ChesBay... sorry I got my panties in a wad, re-read your post and I owe you an apology... must have been having one of those senior things... thanks for taking the time and spending the loot to get a couple and then post the pics for those who haven't seen em... apologies all around.... salt


----------



## surfchunker

well i didn't tie a river rig but one like DIS ties ... and I'll buy mine in Frisco when I get there


----------



## arich_5

JAM said:


> Don't Hate the Player, Hate the Game..
> 
> JAM


Snoop Dogg, is that you???


----------



## JAM

*Then I guess You do Not want a Demo*



surfchunker said:


> well i didn't tie a river rig but one like dis ties ... And i'll buy mine in frisco when i get there


nm


----------



## Raymo

ChesBay Jay said:


>


different style and size of hook = rig isnt the important part

if you fish where the fish are, it doesnt matter if its a River Rig, Raymo Rig, or Wally World special...you will catch fish...


----------



## dudeondacouch

Can we get a "Raymo Rig" thread, then? opcorn:


----------



## surfchunker

as far as the hooks I've tried them all ... started out with baitholders, switched to circles then went with Kahles and have had the best hookup ratio with them on a spiked rod ... and I like a smaller hook, I mostly use a #6 and even landed some pretty big stuff on them too ... and if spots are thick I've even been know to use a #8 kahle ... but I do believe certain rigs are better than others but you still have to be on the fish for any of them to work ... just tied up a dozen "Raymo's"


----------



## justinfisch01

I really don't see what is such a big deal about posting a diagram or one out of the package. People that tie their own rigs and have the material and supplies to do so will tie their own rigs regardless. I cannot believe that this is such a gaurded secret. The reason I don't buy one to figure out how it is tied is because I don't want to pay shipping on the stinkin thing. Someone that has one please just take it out of the package and take a pic. How many stupid pictures are on here on fish-finder rigs, cannonball rigs, double dropper, single dropper, tautog...etc they are all sold commerically yet we all post pictures of them. Same with building plugs....I just don't get it.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

justinfisch01 said:


> I really don't see what is such a big deal about posting a diagram or one out of the package. People that tie their own rigs and have the material and supplies to do so will tie their own rigs regardless. I cannot believe that this is such a gaurded secret. The reason I don't buy one to figure out how it is tied is because I don't want to pay shipping on the stinkin thing. Someone that has one please just take it out of the package and take a pic. How many stupid pictures are on here on fish-finder rigs, cannonball rigs, double dropper, single dropper, tautog...etc they are all sold commerically yet we all post pictures of them. Same with building plugs....I just don't get it.


http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/seastriker_2218_155578028

This is the rig in a nutshell except there is no hardware and the longer trace is on the bottom. Top trace is about 8" long and bottom trace is about 14" long. The riverrig is tied with fluorocarbon. The bottom loop needs to be just big enough to slide over a sinker


----------



## justinfisch01

DrumintheSuds said:


> http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/seastriker_2218_155578028
> 
> This is the rig in a nutshell except there is no hardware and the longer trace is on the bottom. Top trace is about 8" long and bottom trace is about 14" long. The riverrig is tied with fluorocarbon. The bottom loop needs to be just big enough to slide over a sinker


Pretty much reverse of that rig as the bottom trace is the longer of the two, no hardware, and tied with fluoro? Seems to me it is pretty much the same hi/lo I have been tying for years. I use a improved alberto know to make my line connections anyway....Thanks for the heads up. 

BTW I also use a carolina rig in the surf with fleas and do really well on mullet when I am doing the run and gun thing


----------



## jmadre

DrumintheSuds said:


> http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/seastriker_2218_155578028
> 
> This is the rig in a nutshell except there is no hardware and the longer trace is on the bottom. Top trace is about 8" long and bottom trace is about 14" long. The riverrig is tied with fluorocarbon. The bottom loop needs to be just big enough to slide over a sinker


I don't know where you're buying your River Rigs, but it's not the same place I bought mine...or the way River showed me how to do it.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

jmadre said:


> I don't know where you're buying your River Rigs, but it's not the same place I bought mine...or the way River showed me how to do it.


The image is a seastriker bottomrig and pretty much the same design as the riverrig with the differences I provided. I bought a riverrig from Tradewinds to see what the hype was about and when I pulled it out it was pretty much the same rig I have been tying for years which I mimicked from the seastriker rig in the image I provided


----------



## justinfisch01

jmadre said:


> I don't know where you're buying your River Rigs, but it's not the same place I bought mine...or the way River showed me how to do it.


Please post a pic for evaluation...why are we going back and forth about what it is and what it isn't


----------



## DrumintheSuds

justinfisch01 said:


> Please post a pic for evaluation...why are we going back and forth about what it is and what it isn't


You don't need anything more than the image I provided....It's that simple


----------



## River

I've got to chime in on this, DrumintheSuds - you are saying minus the hardware, the loops are different, the drops are different, tied with different line and I can see the knot is different and the beads are on different - lot of differences. I can tie any rig on the market and make it better than than the production ones, the hand tied RiverRigs tied by One More Cast Distributers are all made very close to the same way with all length pre measured, when I tie one - I do it by memory and all my drops are probably off from each other by an inch or two, sometimes more, I may varie the distance between the two drops sometimes, as much as 5 inches when I make the drops longer. When I tied the RiverRig for One More Cast Distributers to go by that morning, if I'd a knowed they were gonna go this far, I'd have spent a little time and made things a little more the same. The drops can be anywhere from 12 - 18 inches long with the longer catchin more fish but they also tangle worse, when I make longer drops - I make the distance between the drops longer trying to prevent the drops from tangling with each other. The concept of Flourocarbon with it stiffness, resistance to abrasion and transparency along with long drops making the bait look natural is what makes the RiverRig catch fish and sure enough anybody that can tie a knot can tie it, there's plenty of people out there that don't tie their own Rigs so I have no problem with people tieing their own - I survived and ate well prior to the RiverRig going into production and my ole rear end will be fine if nobody buys another one although I do appreciate and am very Thankful for the way its sellin - River


----------



## jmadre

River said:


> I've got to chime in on this, DrumintheSuds - you are saying minus the hardware, the loops are different, the drops are different, tied with different line and I can see the knot is different and the beads are on different - lot of differences.


The rig I was tying for Pompano was a LOT closer to a River Rig than DITS's image.

Mine used 25# flouro, the same knots and the same brand/model of hook as a River Rig. The only difference between my rig and the River Rig was that the snood and drops were about half the length. They didn't catch nearly as well as the rig being sold as a River Rig.

You may be able to tie a useful rig by copying that image, but you're not tying a River Rig.


----------



## bronzbck1

DrumintheSuds said:


> The image is a seastriker bottomrig and pretty much the same design as the riverrig with the differences I provided. I bought a riverrig from Tradewinds to see what the hype was about and when I pulled it out it was pretty much the same rig I have been tying for years which I mimicked from the seastriker rig in the image I provided


Can I get some of what your drinking. If you had the rig you would know it isn't even close. You guys need to come to HI and bring your rigs and put them up against other fisherman fishing the same spot. Then you can make all the excuses you want that won't fly.


----------



## AbuMike

Everyone of you guys should buy one just to settle this. I was able to decypher the pics and tie some up. When my rigs came from The Roost I was suprised to say the least...


----------



## DrumintheSuds

bronzbck1 said:


> Can I get some of what your drinking. If you had the rig you would know it isn't even close. You guys need to come to HI and bring your rigs and put them up against other fisherman fishing the same spot. Then you can make all the excuses you want that won't fly.


I gave the guy a close description of what the rig looks like without posting a pic of the rig. I didn't say it was exact or how it is tied. I have done nothing but praise the rig so not sure why yer so pissy......Some of you Hatteras guys need to loosen up a bit


----------



## DrumintheSuds

River said:


> I've got to chime in on this, DrumintheSuds - you are saying minus the hardware, the loops are different, the drops are different, tied with different line and I can see the knot is different and the beads are on different - lot of differences. I can tie any rig on the market and make it better than than the production ones, the hand tied RiverRigs tied by One More Cast Distributers are all made very close to the same way with all length pre measured, when I tie one - I do it by memory and all my drops are probably off from each other by an inch or two, sometimes more, I may varie the distance between the two drops sometimes, as much as 5 inches when I make the drops longer. When I tied the RiverRig for One More Cast Distributers to go by that morning, if I'd a knowed they were gonna go this far, I'd have spent a little time and made things a little more the same. The drops can be anywhere from 12 - 18 inches long with the longer catchin more fish but they also tangle worse, when I make longer drops - I make the distance between the drops longer trying to prevent the drops from tangling with each other. The concept of Flourocarbon with it stiffness, resistance to abrasion and transparency along with long drops making the bait look natural is what makes the RiverRig catch fish and sure enough anybody that can tie a knot can tie it, there's plenty of people out there that don't tie their own Rigs so I have no problem with people tieing their own - I survived and ate well prior to the RiverRig going into production and my ole rear end will be fine if nobody buys another one although I do appreciate and am very Thankful for the way its sellin - River


I didn't say anything about the knots or beads or hooks. I merely pointed out that the image I posted was your rig IN A NUTSHELL besides the fact that yours is tied with fluorcarbon. The main similarity is that one drop is roughly half the size as the other and on your rig the longer drop is on the bottom which is correct. I tied the rig the way i have always done it to match the lengths of your rig and you can't tell the difference side by side.......neither can the fish .......but like I have stated numerous times the rig works and I like it!


----------



## NC KingFisher

Why cant we be friends But seriously guys why dont we argue over something useful like braid vs mono or circles vs Js(Js rule!) so lets just go and fish our own rigs, catch our own fish, and im glad that this has brought river and jam business so lets go fishing guys


----------



## AbuMike

yep after 600+ replies and 25,000+ views....This thread is over.....hahahahaha


----------



## Hudak

Very few times in life does one get the chance to see a horse beaten as well as this. I feel privileged to of been here to see it.


----------



## dudeondacouch

bronzbck1 said:


> You guys need to come to HI and bring your rigs and put them up against other fisherman fishing the same spot. Then you can make all the excuses you want that won't fly.


Will you pay my way and put me up? If so, I'd be glad to oblige.


----------



## NC KingFisher

thekingfeeder said:


> Very few times in life does one get the chance to see a horse beaten as well as this. I feel privileged to of been here to see it.


I didnt even know there was a horse left


----------



## jmadre

Good luck! I'm going fishing...


----------



## Alexy

thekingfeeder said:


> Very few times in life does one get the chance to see a horse beaten as well as this. I feel privileged to of been here to see it.


It is a dead horse....


----------



## abass105

Just to quote a previous post "Flog him somemore. He mought still git up and plow".


----------



## [email protected]

The beauty in the rig is the simplicity of it. I will probably never make another dropper loop.(jam)


----------



## greg12345

let's flog this some more...this is an honest question, don't hate y'all: 

so do you all retie (or buy) a new river rig every time you go fishing? or do you resharpen your hooks? cuz i have noticed that my hooks are dull after several hours of flea fishing...or after about 1h with a gold kahle...which is why i don't use 'em. if you don't retie or rebuy you are fishing with dull hooks. i am compulsive about many things and razor sharp hooks is certainly one of them...may not be as critical with circles but i still like my circles sticky sharp.

if you fish a lot that's a lot of $$$ or retieing...

i have swapped out hooks in the past on bottom rigs by (1) resnooding my earl brinn rigs...kind of a pain (2) using long dropper loops and then looping it through the hook eye...easy, but drawback is you have doubled line which is more visible to the fish (3) using very small dropper loops and using that to attach a pre-tied snood...kind of a pain

hey river - you seem like a real class act and i'm glad your rig is taking off, hope you get some serious $$$ from it...i can think of a way to modify your rig so that hooks can be swapped out easily (although that would be bad from a business perspective i guess)


----------



## greg12345

also can't remember who (pier-legend? loner?) but claims have been made about a single long 18-20" drop as being the best for gigantic citation pompano....most natural presentation...y'all may want to try that as well....less chance of a tangle


----------



## surfchunker

the single one on the bottom and a bigger hook would be good for Pups I bet


----------



## AbuMike

I bought but will tie my own after these....Valid question needs an honest answer..


----------



## DrumintheSuds

If you want a pup killer.....

http://shop.fishtradewinds.com/product/joe-moore-chip-stevens-rig-10438.htm


----------



## [email protected]

greg12345 said:


> let's flog this some more...this is an honest question, don't hate y'all:
> 
> so do you all retie (or buy) a new river rig every time you go fishing? or do you resharpen your hooks? cuz i have noticed that my hooks are dull after several hours of flea fishing...or after about 1h with a gold kahle...which is why i don't use 'em. if you don't retie or rebuy you are fishing with dull hooks. i am compulsive about many things and razor sharp hooks is certainly one of them...may not be as critical with circles but i still like my circles sticky sharp.
> 
> if you fish a lot that's a lot of $$$ or retieing...
> 
> i have swapped out hooks in the past on bottom rigs by (1) resnooding my earl brinn rigs...kind of a pain (2) using long dropper loops and then looping it through the hook eye...easy, but drawback is you have doubled line which is more visible to the fish (3) using very small dropper loops and using that to attach a pre-tied snood...kind of a pain
> 
> hey river - you seem like a real class act and i'm glad your rig is taking off, hope you get some serious $$$ from it...i can think of a way to modify your rig so that hooks can be swapped out easily (although that would be bad from a business perspective i guess)


I resharpen a lot. I check for sticky every cast. The next cast may be the fish of a lifetime. You don't want to miss him. Keep a stone in my pocket or around my neck while I'm fishing.


----------



## solid7

[email protected] said:


> I resharpen a lot. I check for sticky every cast. The next cast may be the fish of a lifetime. You don't want to miss him. Keep a stone in my pocket or around my neck while I'm fishing.


You can't do that with all hooks...


----------



## [email protected]

solid7 said:


> You can't do that with all hooks...


Which is why I don't use the gold ones. I'm a pretty good knife and hook sharpener. I haven't found too many I can't put a fine point on.


----------



## NC KingFisher

Ive got it. To perfect the river rig add a flurocarbon swivel on the top to tie the line to


----------



## DrumintheSuds

NC KingFisher said:


> Ive got it. To perfect the river rig add a flurocarbon swivel on the top to tie the line to


Then you will need a fluorocarbon hook......It stands to reason you would want the thing that catches the fish to be what is invisible


----------



## solid7

[email protected] said:


> Which is why I don't use the gold ones. I'm a pretty good knife and hook sharpener. I haven't found too many I can't put a fine point on.


I'm not gonna have that argument... Just saying that those gold Kahles are pompano catching monsters. (at least around here) But they are **** hooks, and can't be sharpened... The fella raised the point about changing hooks. As was said, it's a valid point. I rely on being able to change hooks on my rigs. (especially when blues starting showing up and mixing in)


----------



## greg12345

i have a hard time sharpening small circles...more power to you...i would rather just change out a #4 or #2 circle than sharpen it...#4/0 would be a different story...we are talking about a rig for mullet & pomps

solid7 - going to give the gold kahles another try if the conditions are favorable in a couple of weeks...have a box of 50...will plan on swapping them out every 60 minutes or as soon as they dull...we'll see what all the fuss is about...haven't used them in a while


----------



## solid7

greg12345 said:


> solid7 - going to give the gold kahles another try if the conditions are favorable in a couple of weeks...have a box of 50...will plan on swapping them out every 60 minutes or as soon as they dull...we'll see what all the fuss is about...haven't used them in a while


Don't ask me... If they didn't work, I wouldn't use them. I have better luck on those than the 1/0 Light Mutu circles that I favor for most other light surf duty. #1 or 1/0 is the size on the Goldies, and occastionally, I use a #4 - especially for soft baits like fresh clams. I usually catch about 4-6 fish before I change them out, or if I don't catch that many, they get tossed every trip. They cost about $14 for a box of 100, so they aren't exactly cheap. That's a good bit of change for something so fussy. So believe me when I tell you AGAIN, that I wouldn't use them if they didn't work.

I'm gonna tie some (Gold Hook Rigs) up and take them over to the Gulf Coast this weekend. (Anna Maria or Siesta Key)

Charlie - pack up and meet me there.


----------



## River

Usually the hook hangs on till the Fluoro gets scuffed but I can sharpen the hook, it takes a small file but if you're tieing your own and your drop is long enough - say 14 inches, you have room to tie another hook on and it'll still be long enough to look natural. When BlowToads are biting heavy, they'll bite the hooks off and they're the RiverRigs worst enemy but I have a remedy for that - I would never add a coastlock snap swivel to the rig except for purposes other than changing hooks - River


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## AbuMike

After some photoshop work on some of the pics posted I saw the longer bottom drop and that is the key. I am sure many others have found that out also. Too bad the ones sold are not very good copies. It is a fine rig and works well. 2 thumbs up bud...


----------



## RocknReds

They sell fluro swivels at The Sportsmans Center near Burlington, N.J. . This is for real because I bought some last month. Very pricey.


----------



## [email protected]

solid7 said:


> I'm not gonna have that argument... Just saying that those gold Kahles are pompano catching monsters. (at least around here) But they are **** hooks, and can't be sharpened... The fella raised the point about changing hooks. As was said, it's a valid point. I rely on being able to change hooks on my rigs. (especially when blues starting showing up and mixing in)


Then you could just end the trace in a small perfection loop and loop your hooks to that.

Do they make bigeye gold hooks?

Why doesn't somebody make a better gold hook? It's just plating, no?


----------



## solid7

[email protected] said:


> Do they make bigeye gold hooks?
> 
> Why doesn't somebody make a better gold hook? It's just plating, no?


Yah, just plating. Makes me wonder why they had to put such a crappy hook under the plating. Although it may be a specific material to produce that color plating. I just don't know. Interestingly, however, the other day I had an owner light mutu RED hook, and after a few hours in the drink, the red started to wear off. I could SWEAR that it was gold underneath. Wish I could find that hook. Those are pretty decent hooks, and if I could just rub off the red plating and have a gold hook, that would be my answer.

Not sure about bigeye hooks. I don't go through the eyes when I tie my rigs. I wouldn't want to have to use a bigger eye for the sake of doubling back through...


----------



## tjbjornsen

RocknReds said:


> They sell fluro swivels at The Sportsmans Center near Burlington, N.J. . This is for real because I bought some last month. Very pricey.


Please post pics or diagrams, this thread needs another 20 or so pages, and I am pretty sure that would do it!


----------



## NC KingFisher

solid7 said:


> Interestingly, however, the other day I had an owner light mutu RED hook, and after a few hours in the drink, the red started to wear off. I could SWEAR that it was gold underneath. Wish I could find that hook. Those are pretty decent hooks, and if I could just rub off the red plating and have a gold hook, that would be my answer


They are, go to the bible to the shark thread 101 and theres pics of some with the coating scratched of


----------



## solid7

NC KingFisher said:


> They are, go to the bible to the shark thread 101 and theres pics of some with the coating scratched of


Hey, good catch on that one... Thanks for that!

I'm going to experiment with the Owners, rubbing off the red finish. Those are much better hooks than the Gold Kahles.


----------



## AbuMike

the red finish is a lot like the Gami's. it will flake off pretty easy..


----------



## solid7

AbuMike said:


> the red finish is a lot like the Gami's. it will flake off pretty easy..


Do you actually have to scratch it off, or is there an easier way? (like a solvent or acetone, perhaps?)


----------



## dudeondacouch

Interesting point about the Mutus, I had forgotten that the red ones were gold underneath. Let us know how easy it is to get the red finish off. opcorn:


----------



## AbuMike

solid7 said:


> Do you actually have to scratch it off, or is there an easier way? (like a solvent or acetone, perhaps?)


I don't really remove it. Just after fishing them for a while it will start to flake off. At that poing you can almost get it off with a thumbnail. Never tried to just take the red off..


----------



## solid7

dudeondacouch said:


> Interesting point about the Mutus, I had forgotten that the red ones were gold underneath. Let us know how easy it is to get the red finish off. opcorn:


I'm actually going to contact Owner today, and see if I can get some more details about the hooks. It might be possible to purchase them pre-plating, and save the trouble. I've had success in the past getting group buys arranged for other items, and even getting a discount for bulk.

Is anyone else interested in this? If it leads anywhere positive, I could start a new thread. I'd just be curious to get some idea of how many people actually use gold hooks, and would like a better alternative to the gold Kahles....


----------



## speedee

http://www.aquateko.com/Aquateko_Invisa_Swivel_Invisible_Fishing_swivels_s/3.htm

Now we need flourocarbon sinker and hook.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

I have never quite understood the lengths some go to hide the rig with invisible line and no hardware when the item that is of most concern to the fish is a METAL HOOK......


----------



## AbuMike

DrumintheSuds said:


> I have never quite understood the lengths some go to hide the rig with invisible line and no hardware when the item that is of most concern to the fish is a METAL HOOK......


i agree to some extent. i think given the right hook and a properly placed bait on said hook the alure of said bait will entice a bite.


----------



## greg12345

what brand of gold kahle's y'all using? eagle claw lazer sharps 146g or 143g? i think those hooks (and all eagle claw in general) are total garbage....have been spoiled with owner and gami. lazer sharp...whatever. mustad also makes a gold kahle ("wide gap") which I have yet to fish with - any one tried these?

when i have long traces (like on the river rig) and i want to swap hooks i will do what shane said except use a 1" surgeon's knot at the end and use that to loop through my hook eye. i used to fish with a river type rig long time ago except both traces same length...too much tangling w/my sputnik...good for a pyramid sinker though...retried it again recently and got tangled up...will modify my tactics next time out


----------



## solid7

greg12345 said:


> 1) what brand of gold kahle's y'all using? eagle claw lazer sharps 146g or 143g?
> 2) i think those hooks (and all eagle claw in general) are total garbage....
> 3) mustad also makes a gold kahle ("wide gap") which I have yet to fish with - any one tried these?


1) yes and yes
2) agreed
3) no. Didn't know about them, and the local haunts don't carry them


----------



## greg12345

i don't like the design of the owner mutu lights personally...they work...but all "bulky" if you know what i mean...a comparable hook which i like better is the mustad demon circle...but not as sharp as the owners. 90% of the time i fish w/gami circles


----------



## greg12345

http://www.boaterbarn.com/mustad_wide_gap_kahle_gold_91266_prd1.htm

prob garbage as well...not a huge fan of most mustad hooks


----------



## DrumintheSuds

I like my eagle claw L197's 2/0 and 3/0.....My favorite hooks


----------



## solid7

greg12345 said:


> http://www.boaterbarn.com/mustad_wide_gap_kahle_gold_91266_prd1.htm
> 
> prob garbage as well...not a huge fan of most mustad hooks


Mustads are good hooks for the money. Not the same as a "good hook", but better than Eagle Claw.

I'm surprised to hear you say the Owner light mutu's are bulky. (in the size range of #1 to 1/0, I assume) I have to go to a demon circle 2X strong to be happy with those. Never used a gami circle.


----------



## dudeondacouch

solid7 said:


> I'm actually going to contact Owner today, and see if I can get some more details about the hooks. It might be possible to purchase them pre-plating, and save the trouble. I've had success in the past getting group buys arranged for other items, and even getting a discount for bulk.
> 
> Is anyone else interested in this? If it leads anywhere positive, I could start a new thread. I'd just be curious to get some idea of how many people actually use gold hooks, and would like a better alternative to the gold Kahles....


What sizes do the red mutus come in? I might be interested if they come in smallish sizes.




greg12345 said:


> i don't like the design of the owner mutu lights personally...they work...but all "bulky" if you know what i mean...a comparable hook which i like better is the mustad demon circle...but not as sharp as the owners. 90% of the time i fish w/gami circles


Mustad Ultra Point Demon Circle 1x are my "go-to" hooks.  Love 'em.


----------



## greg12345

it's more the weird wide shape of the mutu lights...the mustad demon circle 1x is similar shape but not as extreme...now granted this is all for fishing with fleas...i want the flea to sit just right on the hook and i want it to be easy to thread the flea on the hook...i'm sure mutu lights would be good with clam, cut bait, etc...i use them in large sizes in freshwater w/cut shad for cats

L197s are certainly cheap...i will give you that...i have yet to find one that out of the package is as sharp as i want it...i'm compulsive about sharp hooks


----------



## solid7

dudeondacouch said:


> What sizes do the red mutus come in? I might be interested if they come in smallish sizes.


Well, you are in luck. Tell me what size you want, and if you can't find them, I could buy them locally and ship to you for your review... I frequently buy them in my previous listed sizes, from #1 to 1/0. Not sure what all sizes, but if you check the Owner website, I imagine they list them.

Greg - I use those light mutu's for everything. I can't say that the shape matters much to me. They grab good, and they stay sharp - all while remaining rust free for a relatively long time. For me, it's the best hook in the price range, in general, but for nothing specifically. (all things considered)

Them gold hooks is nasty fish catching dudes, though... Of course, one thing I never thought of - being all goldy and shiny, maybe they only catch females. LOL


----------



## dudeondacouch

I'm familiar with the Mutu lights, solid. I use 5/0s for my carolina rigs. Didn't know what sizes the red ones came in because I've only seen big ones.


----------



## solid7

dudeondacouch said:


> I'm familiar with the Mutu lights, solid. I use 5/0s for my carolina rigs. Didn't know what sizes the red ones came in because I've only seen big ones.


Yeah, I know you are. I was only talking about the red ones, just like you asked. And to reiterate, if you are interested in smallish red light mutus, but can't find them locally, I'd hook you up. They are readily available at my local shop.


----------



## dudeondacouch

If you give the word that they can be "gilded" without too much work, I'll check and see what I can get locally.

I'd love to have an option for gold hooks that wasn't duller than a knitting seminar.


----------



## sleepyhead

Dam I miss a day and now ya'll at talking about hooks..... Will this thread ever die???


----------



## solid7

I called Owner, and they don't offer them as gold only, but they'd accommodate a group buy. It sounds like our minimum buy is 50,000 pieces. (100K preferred)

Is it worth checking into further? Do we have enough interest?

Last group buy I did was 25K pieces, and I ended up getting 225K shipped. Don't think it's crazy...


----------



## dudeondacouch

225k hooks? 

That's out of control. What does that even weigh?


----------



## solid7

I wouldn't have a clue. I put together a database, and the company did the rest of the work. Every last customer got their own package, 100% hands free on my part. Got one hell of a discount. (paid 53% of retail)


----------



## arich_5

I've seen the red mutu lights in sizes as small as #6. I'd be interested in some gold mutus but it wouldn't be many...maybe 100 total in various sizes.


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## surfchunker

WOW ... after all this I think I will be getting into some of my Raspberry Wine tonight :beer:


----------



## solid7

This is a piece of cake... To get gold circle hooks, you just need to make a small scratch on the red hooks. (easy to do) Put them in acetone, wait a few hours. Gold hooks...


----------



## surfchunker

half a bottle later and this is all starting to make sense now


----------



## solid7

surfchunker said:


> half a bottle later and this is all starting to make sense now


If it's starting to make sense, you need to keep drinking...


----------



## dudeondacouch

solid7 said:


> This is a piece of cake... To get gold circle hooks, you just need to make a small scratch on the red hooks. (easy to do) Put them in acetone, wait a few hours. Gold hooks...


Can we get some pics? How about a sharpness retention review? (HAS to be better than those damn gold kahles.)


----------



## solid7

dudeondacouch said:


> Can we get some pics? How about a sharpness retention review? (HAS to be better than those damn gold kahles.)


I already fish them, so I know for sure they stay sharp longer. I will start a new thread when I get back. I finally got a chance to take a long fishing weekend trip... See you in 3 days.


----------



## BlueWater

Considering that acetone can deteriate metal over a certain amount of time. Will this have an affect of the sharpness after taken out of the acetone bath? Not sure how long it would take the acteone to start eating the metal a little. But i would assume a few hours couldnt hinder the sharpness.


----------



## plotalot

Acetone doesn't deteriorate or even deteriate metal.


----------



## BlueWater

haha good call plotalot...didnt know what i was thinking. lol.


----------



## RocknReds

It's interesting that you can catch a sea mullet or small bluefish on an 8/0 gami circle and a 52" drum on a 5/0 gami circle, so sometimes the size doesn't matter. Anytime you can get away using a smaller hook and hiding it in the bait you'll be better off. It works with all size fish.


----------



## sleepyhead

Bump..


----------



## JamesRiverVa

Arrived on Ocracoke Sunday, bought my first River Rig that afternoon at Tradewinds and Monday morning caught six sea mullet, a pompano and 21" black drum.

The tips I've picked up along the way re. what kind of water to look for probably helped as much as anything but I have to say it's a nice rig and I'm a believer now.


----------



## bronzbck1

Good job James River, If they work they work why use anything else. I'm sure not backing up and using what we use to tie or Sea Strik#@.


----------



## jmadre

bronzbck1 said:


> Good job James River, If they work they work why use anything else. I'm sure not backing up and using what we use to tie or Sea Strik#@.


Me, neither. My wife and I have had a heck of a month of sea mullet catching while fishing these rigs. Six mullet citations between us for fish weighing from 1.54 to 1.99 pounds. 

We caught a few Pomps, too. Hadn't been able to make much headway on them before this year.


----------



## RocknReds

What brand of flurocarbon line is the most invisible if you take a snippet of line and put it in a glass of water. Do the higher price lines do as good a job as the cheaper ones?


----------



## tjbjornsen

RocknReds said:


> What brand of flurocarbon line is the most invisible if you take a snippet of line and put it in a glass of water. Do the higher price lines do as good a job as the cheaper ones?


Thank You, 
I was starting to get a little jittery without my daily River Rigs Thread fix...


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## AbuMike

tjbjornsen said:


> Thank You,
> I was starting to get a little jittery without my daily River Rigs Thread fix...


Indeed, we never even got this much play outta the Braid vs Mono or Circle vs J threads...


----------



## sleepyhead

Really?? It is still going??


----------



## surfchunker

as somebody else posted I bought 4 rigs yesterday and all of them the top drop was 9" and the bottom one was 10" ... we caught fish on them but they aren't like River said the bottom one 14" ... sounds like a production problem


----------



## Charlie2

surfchunker said:


> as somebody else posted I bought 4 rigs yesterday and all of them the top drop was 9" and the bottom one was 10" ... we caught fish on them but they aren't like River said the bottom one 14" ... sounds like a production problem


It is as advertised. Ten inches is greater than nine inches. Maybe someone is conserving fluorocarbon? C2


----------



## River

Surfchunker, good seein you this morning - Yes I may have stated that 13" or more when you're tieing your own - if I stated it wrong or another way, I apoligize. I tie by sight and don't measure, so the morning I tied the RiverRig for Joe Moore - I knew that lots of people may be fishing the rig and some probably would not tolerate much wrapping/tangling so I made it that length to hold down tangle and also cost as much as possible. 8 or 9 inches catches fish just fine but if you tie your own and don't mind the cost - the longer the better, my friend Dar that wrote a letter several pages back, ties them 18" and he's leading the Hatteras Anglers Club Member Tournament in 2 fish catagories so it works but it does tangle as it gets longer especially out at 18 inches. I tied you two RiverRigs myself this morning and I'm sure you can see the difference but I'm not tieing to sell. We have to make it user friendly when tieing on the production side, young fisherman are using it and they don't understand tangle - they'll hand it to their Dad and I don't want that. Thanks much for you comment and again nice to meet you - River


----------



## tjbjornsen

River,
Great answer, Sometimes people forget the biz of what might be best for the hard core guys may not be the answer for the newbies that you are looking to instill a lifetime of fishing desire in...
I'm looking forward to coming in in a couple of weeks and buying a bunch of these and getting a tutorial on tying my own from you or Jam.
You will recognize me by my Pompano Shaped Pupils, and the sand fleas in my pockets...
TjB


----------



## DrumintheSuds

For what it's worth I have always tied my version at 8" give or take on the top and about 14" on the bottom. I also tie a version with about a 3" top trace that has a bucktail teaser....


----------



## surfchunker

well went to the roost and talked to River and then he stopped at the camper and said basically the same ... they do catch fish no doubt about it ... and river is a straight up dude ... also got to fish with Susan and Bronzeback today ... more great people


----------



## SALTSHAKER

Well I started this thread about two months ago and got my answer. Went for kingfish (seamullet) today in central NJ and can attest through personal experience that they do indeed work....!! Well done River and thanks.....salt


----------



## Catch This

Beads or no beads....I picked up 3 w/o beads, 3 with pink beads, and 3 with green beads. Which ones worked best for you?


----------



## River

All three of those colors are working good now but - SusanOBX and bronzbck1 are catching some nice one as I'm writing this, down on Ramp 49 with the Naked (no beads) RiverRig - I'm in the cool waitin for the race to start. By the way, bronzbck1 is using my custom CPS 11', 2 -5 oz Rod with a new Akios 666 Tourney Reel on it so he can definitely reach the far bar - River


----------



## surfchunker

wouldn't ya know it I headed t 38 today and it was dead ... bet they were in my hole


----------



## JamesRiverVa

Last week I fished several hours a day using one beaded (orange) and one "naked" River Rig. Both caught fish but the naked one seemed to produce more for me. Not sure it makes a huge difference and it may vary day to day depending on conditions. But it makes sense to me that if the whole premise of the rig is to make it as natural and invisible as possible (no snaps or swivels, flouro line), then the naked seems like the way to go.

I ended up catching several very large (15-16") sea mullet, some nice sized black drum and a bunch of smaller sea mullet and pompano last week, all on the new rig. It was the best late-summer surf fishing I think I've ever had. Some of the increased success has to be due to my increased understanding of what to look for in terms of beach structure, where to cast etc. including some of the advice earlier in this thread. But the rig itself definitely made me a believer. My dad and brother in law were using the typical store bought sea striker rigs and I was outfishing them at least 2-1 until they asked what I was using that was different from theirs.


----------



## NC KingFisher

AbuMike said:


> Indeed, we never even got this much play outta the Braid vs Mono or Circle vs J threads...


J hooks all the way on my stuff. I dont gut hook no fish especially not sharks cause i be like super man doing the running man


----------



## Loner

....I have enjoyed this thread...I think I HAVE the best pomp rig ever invented...BUT THE 1ST "RIVER RIG" i get a shot at I WILL Have several.....
Bull Mullet and Citation Pomps are a serious disease around here....
Thanks for the THOUGHT INVOLVED river......real fishermen are ALWAYS OBSERVING and ALWAYS THINKING!!!!!!


----------



## Loner

greg12345 said:


> some of the old salt pomp guys here in NC swear by a single real long drop for flea fishing for the biguns


..
yep, the boys that consistently land 4-5 lb pomps ALL seem to rig with the single hook..................least here at Topsail.............


----------



## BlueWater

Just received the rig from Tradewinds Tackle. Going to use it this wednesday at Cape Canaveral. And a special thanks to tradewinds for the complimentary decal i received with my purchase. Hope to have something to bring home for dinner.


----------



## surfchunker

no big ones out there for us today but green did seem to get more action than orange or naked ...


----------



## BlueWater

surfchunker said:


> no big ones out there for us today but green did seem to get more action than orange or naked ...


Good to know, thanks for the info. But I didnt know you live in Florida an fished Cape Canaveral Seashore. Your lacation says Maryland?


----------



## surfchunker

never said I was fishing FL, I was just saying what was working for us ... we are fishing at the Home of the River River for the week


----------



## BlueWater

surfchunker said:


> never said I was fishing FL, I was just saying what was working for us ... we are fishing at the Home of the River River for the week


Ahh I see...just mis-understood your comment. But thanks for the info. Pumped to see what the day will have in store for me.


----------



## JAM

*Types of FlouroCarbon Does Matter*

I have seen it first hand, and I sell 3 types of flourocarbon. Trik Fish Brand Flouro, Hi Seas Flouro, and Seguar Blue Label Flouro. The Term Get what you pay for is quite true in this reguard. I have a Friend who is Quite Frugil ( Cheap) so he went for the Trik Fish, cause he thought he was getting 200 yards of Flourocarbon for 19.99.. My question to him is why would one company sell 200 yards for 19.99 and the other 2 sell 25 yards for 14.99. But he went for the Cheap and got the results that cheap gives ya, no fish, as myself, River and a few others were catchin all around him. Had him re-read the packaging that the Trik Fish came in and there it was, 100% FlouroCarbon Coated, and that my friends will not work. Do a test for yourself, forget water, get your favorite FlouroCarbon and Pull it tight and shine a flashlight on it and see what has less of a Shadow, of course to make it legit use the same pund test for all that you are testing. .. I have used and will continue to use Seguar Blue Label, its proven, to me.. 

JAM


----------



## greg12345

i have used both seaguar blue label and ande fluoro leader...never could tell a difference...usually fish ande now as it is half the price of the seaguar (ande comes in 50yd spools for the same price as a 25yd seaguar spool)


----------



## greg12345

hey loner - just curious, what is your "best pomp rig ever invented"? or is it secret...


----------



## dudeondacouch

seaguar blue label = good at disappearing, bad at knots.


----------



## JAM

greg12345 said:


> i have used both seaguar blue label and ande fluoro leader...never could tell a difference...usually fish ande now as it is half the price of the seaguar (ande comes in 50yd spools for the same price as a 25yd seaguar spool)


Do the Flashlight Shadow test then.. You will see the difference.. If its half its price then, see above.. Most likely just coated, not Flourocarbon.. 

JAM


----------



## mote1977

JAM said:


> Do the Flashlight Shadow test then.. You will see the difference.. If its half its price then, see above.. Most likely just coated, not Flourocarbon..
> 
> JAM


Ande fluoro leader material is 100% fluorocarbon. Seaguar makes great fluorocarbon but IMO Ande is just as good and much cheaper. This is taken directly from the Seaguar website:

MYTH: You can make fluorocarbon more invisible than others.
FACT: No. The refractive index of 100% fluorocarbon is a constant and cannot be altered.

MYTH: Fluorocarbon is completely invisible and matches the refractive index (the way light bends) of water.
FACT: No. It is as close as any form of line or leader can get to the refractive index of water, thus making it virtually invisible, but not completely. Some brands do state that, but it is not true.


----------



## NC KingFisher

Another testament to the river rig. I was looking through the fishermans post, and JAM was in there with a nice pomp caught on the river rig


----------



## greg12345

trust me i am as anal about fluoro as anyone you will ever find...ande leader is 100% fluoro...works good for me


----------



## narfpoit

Here is a site that shows some comparisons on various 100% fluorocarbon lines. http://www.questoutdoors.net/gear/articles/ftest/ even though the Berkeley vanish was rated very poorly in this test I have had pretty good look with it. Like was mentioned early the only qualities that change in the different brands will be knot strength and abrasion resistance. The actual visibility of 100% fluorocarbon line can only be effected by line diameter.


----------



## Loner

greg12345 said:


> hey loner - just curious, what is your "best pomp rig ever invented"? or is it secret...


...definietlly SECRET...but if U walk up on me or the other 2-3 I know that use it...U WILL NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE!!


....Starting with the ORANGE SINKERS and the FLOURSECENT ORANGE BEADS.....the plan after all these years isn't so much catchin any pomp....but TARGETING BIG POMPS all the time.............
I order those firey glow beads at $20 a hundred.......no plans to get in the "rig business" so we'll stop.........and I will still prodcure me some "River Rigs" .......
I add or try something a little different every season and this years experiment is circle hooks coming in HALF ORANGE...
I USE A 2 HOOK RIG most of the time too..............


----------



## dudeondacouch

So many secrets...

I'm tempted to post up pics and schematics for my rigs just for GP.


----------



## AbuMike

dudeondacouch said:


> So many secrets...
> 
> I'm tempted to post up pics and schematics for my rigs just for GP.



Nah, what fun would that be...


----------



## dudeondacouch

AbuMike said:


> Nah, what fun would that be...


Good point.

Much more interesting to be smug yet vague.


----------



## AbuMike

dudeondacouch said:


> Good point.
> 
> Much more interesting to be *smug yet vague*.


LOL....I'm gonna have to use that sometime.....


----------



## dudeondacouch

Here's a close-up pic of the rig I use. Have had excellent luck with it. :fishing:


----------



## abass105

That's pretty funny.


----------



## HStew

The color (yellow/blue) on the closure on your plastic bag hints that your rig won't catch better than mine because mine is the correct color and, not to be smug about it, you can ask anyone on the beach.


----------



## solid7

Dude, how do you get them to swim into the bag? Or do they just try to swallow it whole?


----------



## NC KingFisher

Looks like it might catch some sea turtles


----------



## abass105

Maybe a sandwich. Who knows.


----------



## surfchunker

my last post on this thread ... the River Rig is a damn fine fishing rig and River himself is a good ol' Boy


----------



## dudeondacouch

Why is everyone focusing on the bag? Can you not tell that there's a rig in there?

Perhaps I went too far with the intentional blurriness. :beer:


----------



## tjbjornsen

surfchunker said:


> my last post on this thread ...


Many a Good Man has made that vow in the Great River Rig Thread, only to come humbly back 15 pages later...
River Rig. The thread you just can't quit...


----------



## solid7

dudeondacouch said:


> Why is everyone focusing on the bag?


Because it's the focal point of the picture...?

Wait, is this a trick question?


----------



## HStew

If the pic is not in focus then what are we left to focus on except that which is not in focus ?


----------



## NC KingFisher

tjbjornsen said:


> Many a Good Man has made that vow in the Great River Rig Thread, only to come humbly back 15 pages later...
> River Rig. The thread you just can't quit...


Happenes to me all the time


----------



## BlueWater

Well got the chance to put this rig to the test today. An lets jus say...it in fact is a nice design and does catch fish. Honestly thought i was going to have an issue with tangling but to my surprise i had two moderate tangles the whole day. 

Fella a lil ways down came to me asking what I was using as far as bait. I told him fish bites for now. And he replie saying he was using the same thing. I then reached into my tackle bag and handed him the river rig and told him to give this a try an use the same bait. Less then 5 minutes later. He was loading his cooler with fish.

After happily filling his cooler he walks back down to me, hands me a beer, an asks me, "what the hell was that you gave me?" I simply replied, "River Rig"

Special thanks to River for designing a nice rig that made two happy fisherman today and for many more wet lines to be had!


----------



## dudeondacouch

What was he using before?


----------



## BlueWater

dudeondacouch said:


> What was he using before?


It appeared to be your standard dropper loop rig. Didnt get a good look at it considering all his rods were bundled up ready to leave when he came over the seoond time.


----------



## River

BlueWater, you and many others have made my day - Thanks and by the way, Surfchunker and his lovely hardfishin wife outfished me yesterday afternoon using the green beads and bloodworms, just nice eatin sized fish but that also made my yesterday - I luv to see people catch fish, River


----------



## abass105

BlueWater said:


> Well got the chance to put this rig to the test today. An lets jus say...it in fact is a nice design and does catch fish. Honestly thought i was going to have an issue with tangling but to my surprise i had two moderate tangles the whole day.
> 
> Fella a lil ways down came to me asking what I was using as far as bait. I told him fish bites for now. And he replie saying he was using the same thing. I then reached into my tackle bag and handed him the river rig and told him to give this a try an use the same bait. Less then 5 minutes later. He was loading his cooler with fish.
> 
> After happily filling his cooler he walks back down to me, hands me a beer, an asks me, "what the hell was that you gave me?" I simply replied, "River Rig"
> 
> Special thanks to River for designing a nice rig that made two happy fisherman today and for many more wet lines to be had!


That is what this "sport - past time" is all about. Good for you.


----------



## susanobx

*Coming soon...Susanobx Rigs*

 Watch out River, just got my new bead supply in! 
*Fish Like A Girl Rigs* by Susan Obx

Pretty in Pink
Margarita
Lipstick
Ice Princess
Purple Passion
Get Naked *
*
After Hours

_Now taking per-orders._


----------



## abass105

This is gonna be good.


----------



## NC KingFisher

So we now have to start a new gajillion page long thread. The susanobx rig. Ill take a magarita or two


----------



## River

Susan, I thought you quit having Wine for Breakfast! You are my most faverite fishing buddy and sure enough, In the not to far off future ya'll may be seeing SusanOBX - "Fish Like A Girl" Logo on her faverite color RiverRig packages - She's an awesome fisherlady and that would be special to me - Lady's, Ya'll need to "Keep On Fishin" too - River


----------



## JAM

I would love to fish a "Fish Like a Girl" rig Susan, it would match all my rods I will take a Pretty in Pink and a Purple Passion, both the colors built into all my personal customs.... LOL.. Wait, How many IceCubes in a Large Bag of Ice???????


JAM


----------



## tjbjornsen

Jam!
I'm comin' down there next week...
Make sure you have some of these in stock, gotta see what all the fuss is about.
Makin' sure all of the Pomp and Mullet rods and reels are ready to go.
And I will obviously be needing some River Rigs to catch 'em on.
TjB


----------



## NC KingFisher

JAM said:


> I would love to fish a "Fish Like a Girl" rig Susan, it would match all my rods I will take a Pretty in Pink and a Purple Passion, both the colors built into all my personal customs.... LOL.. Wait, How many IceCubes in a Large Bag of Ice???????
> 
> 
> JAM


Well as for the ice cubes, depends on the deminsions, depth, degree of largitude, wether or not a river rig is i it, and the price of tea in china


----------



## susanobx

River, the "One more Cast" Susanobx Pearl Pink and the Margerita rigs rocked it today!


----------



## marstang50

This reminds me of the Seinfeld sitcom, "a show about nothing".


----------



## drumrun

marstang50 said:


> This reminds me of the Seinfeld sitcom, "a show about nothing".


For me its more like Allen Iverson. " we are talking about practice, come on man practice, we are talking about practice"
With that being said it is obvious that people love some sea mullet and its got people tying their own rigs and experimenting. Kinda what it is all about.


----------



## JAM

All Kidding aside, some Fantastic Information hiden in this Thread.. I am Very happy for the Success of the River Rig, and I am extremley happy with the results of Fishing the Rig.. I get to see the Results everyday working at the Shop, and not only do we sell you the Rig at The Roost, if you want, either River or I will give you a demo on tying and hook you up with the proper componants to make your own.. 

There are some Shops that are now Selling (Imitation) River Rigs, and I can tell you this, they are NOT Tied the same and THEY DO NOT USE the Same Componants, I have seen them and had them in my hands, don't be Fooled by a Fool. I can say that if someones tries to copy you its the highest form of flatery there is. 
Susan I still want my Fish Like a Girl Rigs, if one bead was Pretty in Pink and the other was Passion Purple, I would be style-in and profile-in..
JAM


----------



## susanobx

drumrun said:


> For me its more like Allen Iverson. " we are talking about practice, come on man practice, we are talking about practice"
> With that being said it is obvious that people love some sea mullet and its got people tying their own rigs and experimenting. Kinda what it is all about.


Well said, Drumrun. Your are right...I have followed this thread not for the bs replies, but for the genuine ideas, techniques, and knowledge posted by advid anglers. 

Without a doubt, the RiverRig flat out catches fish! I have shared this rig on the beach with Barney's who could not buy a fish and turned their day into their most successful one. I have seen my own grandchildrens eyes light up with the biggest fish of their life this summer. The choice to market this rig was the right one and I for one am happy for its success. Is it for everyone? Probably not, but not everyone is a seasoned angler like most of the members here. Some folks get to beach one time a year with their families to fish and enjoy the beach. This rig is THE one for them! This is THE rig for my friends who I bring down with me to fish. This rig is THE one you need to share with your novice friends and family too. Once they are successful fishing, you will have them hooked for life. 

Being a successful fisherman is not just measured by his own success but my his willingness to teach others to be succeed!


----------



## JAM

"Being a successful fisherman is not just measured by his own success but my his willingness to teach others to be succeed!"

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner.. 

No one on this board or anywhere was BORN a Great FisherPerson, Knowledge passed on to you by others has made you the FisherPerson you are. Ask anyone, I have no secrets that I will not share with anyone.. That is the main point in fishing, to me, pass it on.. And who better to pass it on to then a KID.. 

I might JOKE and I might POKE, but it all comes down to Teaching.. Thank You Susan for getting DEEP on us.. 

JAM


----------



## RocknReds

Pompano and Sea Mullet candy. Take your blue claw crabs and clean them before steaming and eating. Inside the upper shell between the points and the eyes you will see some yellow fat. Carefully remove it and use it for bait (some times it might help to wrap it on the hook with gummy thread). The fish can't resist it.


----------



## Manlystanley

*So... Why does the River Rig Work and when to use it??*

I just got turned onto this thread, and I'm finding out what I've missed! It seems to me, that a River Rig is no more then a:

-- 3 way swivel.
-- Shorter sinker lead (maybe 8 inches).
-- the longer hook lead (maybe 2 feet)?

My question is: Why does it work, and when is it best to use it?

I'm thinking that it works best when there is a current or in the surf. This allows the line going to the pole and the sinker to be in a constant position. Then the bait (lifted off the bottom by several inches) to go flopping arround naturally with the current or surf. Is this correct?

So, I think that it would work best in the surf (where there are lots of direction changes). What do you guys think?

Best Regards,
Stan


----------



## abass105

No swivels on a River Rig.


----------



## surfchunker

Manlystanley said:


> I just got turned onto this thread, and I'm finding out what I've missed! It seems to me, that a River Rig is no more then a:
> 
> -- 3 way swivel.
> -- Shorter sinker lead (maybe 8 inches).
> -- the longer hook lead (maybe 2 feet)?
> 
> My question is: Why does it work, and when is it best to use it?
> 
> I'm thinking that it works best when there is a current or in the surf. This allows the line going to the pole and the sinker to be in a constant position. Then the bait (lifted off the bottom by several inches) to go flopping arround naturally with the current or surf. Is this correct?
> 
> So, I think that it would work best in the surf (where there are lots of direction changes). What do you guys think?
> 
> Best Regards,
> Stan


not even close ... it works cause of a great design and quality components ... buy ya some


----------



## DrumintheSuds

Manlystanley said:


> I just got turned onto this thread, and I'm finding out what I've missed! It seems to me, that a River Rig is no more then a:
> 
> -- 3 way swivel.
> -- Shorter sinker lead (maybe 8 inches).
> -- the longer hook lead (maybe 2 feet)?
> 
> My question is: Why does it work, and when is it best to use it?
> 
> I'm thinking that it works best when there is a current or in the surf. This allows the line going to the pole and the sinker to be in a constant position. Then the bait (lifted off the bottom by several inches) to go flopping arround naturally with the current or surf. Is this correct?
> 
> So, I think that it would work best in the surf (where there are lots of direction changes). What do you guys think?
> 
> Best Regards,
> Stan


It's a good rig but the propeganda on this thread has been mindboggling at times. I can only speak for myself having fished with it several times now. I caught fish before it with rigs made out of wire booms and still do. The rig is easy to make and cheap to make


----------



## River

Surfchunker's correct, NO SWIVELS !, Hand tied top grade Fluorocarbon line, awesome little circle hook (Don't Jerk) and Naked or with beads, the bead or Naked thing seems to change daily here lately. Its for the Surf, No you don't need heavy current and there will be lots of new colored beads along with glow beads out by the weekend in selected Tackle shops called SusanOBX Colors - "Fish Like A Girl" style, look for em in pink packaging. They're available at most Tackle shops on Hatteras Island and Ocracoke, make sure they're in Yellow or Pink packages with RiverRig in the top righthand corner - don't except "it works the same" or "its just as good" - if it ain't got RiverRig in the top Right hand corner - it ain't a RiverRig - River


----------



## River

DrumintheSuds, I've layed low on this for a long time now but I've been fishin against those Wire Sweep Rig for years now and have had friends that used it but don't anymore - it's a OK rig for slot drum and a few other species but it don't stand a chance against the RiverRig when you're fishin for Sea Mullet and Pompano - Bring yourself on down to Hatteras, I'll fish beside you and those wire Rigs - River


----------



## surfchunker

let me put it this way ... last night I sat for over an hour with clippers cutting up all my old rigs and salavaging parts off them ... tieing RR's with single drop on bottom with a bigger hook and regular RR's too ... My new buddy's River, SusanOBX, and brzbk1 convinced me and I also convinced myself by sticking with RR's and big fleas and some awesome fish, or use a chunk of bloodworm and fill a cooler `... gonna so tear them up next month if Susan has left me any ( brzbk1 is scared to catch very many )


----------



## DrumintheSuds

River said:


> DrumintheSuds, I've layed low on this for a long time now but I've been fishin against those Wire Sweep Rig for years now and have had friends that used it but don't anymore - it's a OK rig for slot drum and a few other species but it don't stand a chance against the RiverRig when you're fishin for Sea Mullet and Pompano - Bring yourself on down to Hatteras, I'll fish beside you and those wire Rigs - River


No offense River but I don't have to go to Hatteras. I have fished the wire boom rig for the last few years and caught tons of fish. The man who taught me to flea fish caught the biggest sea mullet and Pompano I have ever seen with "reworked" wire boom rigs. I have seen the proof in the pudding so to speak. He could take pretty much any rig you gave him and fill a cooler up with quality fish. What do I need to have proven to me? I started cathing more fish when I learned "where to fish", "when to fish" and the tactics needed to ambush them. I started cathing more fish when I lightened up my tackle and started fishing with the right bait to match what the fish I was targeting were feeding on. I have caught plenty of fish with your rig the last couple months......It's not a contest to me.


----------



## wvbud22

I was in surfside a few weeks ago and used these rigs from the pier. Caught fish every outing which I can't say allthe time. There were a couple older guys out catching me but not by much. Felt like I did as well as anyone there and helped a guy fill his cooler with spot whiting blues and pompano a few days. 
People were using all kinds and sizes of rigs sold at the pier and were getting bit but not near as much luck as me getting fish. I dropped the river rig name a couple times but didn't give any new ones away. I did however give away several sea striker spot rigs to ttry to help out a little. Kept the good stuff for myself. Others wanted to know where to get those rigs and told them to call the roost. As long as I could keep the hooks sharp they were great but I have to say I wore out 6 rigs completely on fleas and shrimp. Wish I bought more because my copies weren't equal to them. 
Thanks for a good outing


----------



## DrumintheSuds

I saw an old black man and woman sit in a little hole last year and catch black drum and sea mullet for 3 straight days with walmart green ball rigs, spot hooks and earthworms....NOT BLOODWORMS.....earthworms from their garden. WHY?....Because they were tossing those worms where fish were feeding.


----------



## River

No contest to me either, didn't mean to offend you - I know the Wire Sweep Rig also, I didn't mean to come across like its a bad Rig - I fish beside a lot of people and I've been outfished a lot lately, I luv to be outfished - River


----------



## bronzbck1

All rigs catch fish but then there is quality fishing, and just fishing. It is just better fish for us that know better.


----------



## wvbud22

I think I saw those people too


----------



## DrumintheSuds

River said:


> No contest to me either, didn't mean to offend you - I know the Wire Sweep Rig also, I didn't mean to come across like its a bad Rig - I fish beside a lot of people and I've been outfished a lot lately, I luv to be outfished - River


No offense taken. I have done nothing but praise your rig the last few months......If people are doing miraculous things with the riverrig I'm not going to deny them or question their results but here is what I "really think"......Your rig is more "consistant" and works for a reason IMO. Because it sinks and puts the bait on the bottom. I don't buy the wire boom rigs in the store......I buy my own booms that are a tad bit different and tie them to accomplish the very thing you riverrig does......Keep the bait on the bottom and natural presentation


----------



## Chris_Worthington

Okay I want one. Not going to read through the last 759 posts to see if there is a link or not...

Hit me up here with one "or" JAM send me a link/how to get on FB


----------



## Manlystanley

DrumintheSuds said:


> [It works] ..... Because it sinks and puts the bait on the bottom. I don't buy the wire boom rigs in the store......I buy my own booms that are a tad bit different and tie them to accomplish the very thing you riverrig does......Keep the bait on the bottom and natural presentation


Drumin: You're the man. I've learned a huge amount from you. But, I do have a question about this last statement. If the goal is putting the bait on the bottom, why not use a fish finder rig? Wouldn't that put the bait on the bottom as well? Sorry for the dumb question.

Best Regards,
Stan


----------



## NC KingFisher

On one side we have DITS with the wire boom rig<a href='http://www.mysmiley.net/free-aim-smileys.php' title='aim smileys'><img src='http://serve.mysmiley.net/fighting/fighting0040.gif' alt='aim smileys' border='0'></a>And on the dark side we have river with the river rig. WHO WILL WIN?(i think the river rig, i need to get one myself )


----------



## DrumintheSuds

Manlystanley said:


> Drumin: You're the man. I've learned a huge amount from you. But, I do have a question about this last statement. If the goal is putting the bait on the bottom, why not use a fish finder rig? Wouldn't that put the bait on the bottom as well? Sorry for the dumb question.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Stan


It will but I don't prefer to use fish finder rigs unless I am holding the rod in my hand. I always keep a 7' trout rod rigged up with a Carolina Rig as a sort of scout rod. I can walk a stretch of beach with it and toss it into pockets adn what not looking for fish holding in an area.

The guy that tought me flea fishing would always low spike his rods as well.....ALWAYS. This helps keep a bait on the bottom too. The man who taught him fished 1 rod and he held it in his hands and held it low for the same reason. He would keep some slack in his line and watch for it to tighten up like you do when bass fishing early spring.


----------



## DrumintheSuds

NC KingFisher said:


> On one side we have DITS with the wire boom rig<a href='http://www.mysmiley.net/free-aim-smileys.php' title='aim smileys'><img src='http://serve.mysmiley.net/fighting/fighting0040.gif' alt='aim smileys' border='0'></a>And on the dark side we have river with the river rig. WHO WILL WIN?(i think the river rig, i need to get one myself )


LOL....I fish both style rigs and catch all the fish I want to eat so I can't lose


----------



## Manlystanley

surfchunker said:


> not even close ... it works cause of a great design and quality components ... buy ya some


Sufchunker: This is why I thought there was a 3-way swivel in it: http://www.amazon.com/South-Bend-Three-River-Hooks/dp/B000SKHTOC/ref=pd_sim_sbs_sg_1

Same name "River Rig", kind of the same positon of sinker, hook and line to pole.

Best Regards,
Stan


----------



## surfchunker

huh ... I do tie something like that for fishing the river here in swift current for catfish ... but not the RR we are refering to


----------



## NC KingFisher

DrumintheSuds said:


> LOL....I fish both style rigs and catch all the fish I want to eat so I can't lose


Dangit. Now i need three fighting thingamabobers


----------



## Manlystanley

DrumintheSuds said:


> It will but I don't prefer to use fish finder rigs unless I am holding the rod in my hand. I always keep a 7' trout rod rigged up with a Carolina Rig as a sort of scout rod. I can walk a stretch of beach with it and toss it into pockets adn what not looking for fish holding in an area.
> 
> The guy that tought me flea fishing would always low spike his rods as well.....ALWAYS. This helps keep a bait on the bottom too. The man who taught him fished 1 rod and he held it in his hands and held it low for the same reason. He would keep some slack in his line and watch for it to tighten up like you do when bass fishing early spring.



Drumin: As always, grat explanation and advice. Thanks!

SurfChunker: I must be toally off base with what the river rig is. Let me got back to stealth mode then, and try to figure this out.... In other words, I'll just try to learn something from you guys without cluttering up this thread to much......

Best Regards,
Stan


----------



## Plug

DrumintheSuds said:


> The guy that tought me flea fishing would always low spike his rods as well.....ALWAYS. This helps keep a bait on the bottom too. The man who taught him fished 1 rod and he held it in his hands and held it low for the same reason. *He would keep some slack in his line and watch for it to tighten up like you do when bass fishing early spring*.


Was he fishing ocean front? Any ocean surf fishing I do the current almost immediately pulls the slack out.


----------



## surfchunker

Manlystanley said:


> Drumin: As always, grat explanation and advice. Thanks!
> 
> SurfChunker: I must be toally off base with what the river rig is. Let me got back to stealth mode then, and try to figure this out.... In other words, I'll just try to learn something from you guys without cluttering up this thread to much......
> 
> Best Regards,
> Stan



just buy yourself a couple ... they are available at most of the OBX tackle shops starting with the Roost in Hatteras


----------



## Manlystanley

surfchunker said:


> just buy yourself a couple ... they are available at most of the OBX tackle shops starting with the Roost in Hatteras




Will do. I'm going down to OBX in a few months. I'll get some then.....


----------



## DrumintheSuds

Plug said:


> Was he fishing ocean front? Any ocean surf fishing I do the current almost immediately pulls the slack out.


I can't remember a time when I saw him fish much past the shoreline breakers. He fished very light line and would keep the bait moving pulling it a bit and letting it slack off just like many do when bass fishing. I use this technique when fishing bridges for black drum. I keep a slack line and watch for it to tighten


----------



## River

SusanOBX's faverite colors "Fish Like A Girl" RiverRigs will be available today for the first time at Teachs Lair Marina, just as soon as I get to work and put em out - they'll be very visable in their Pink package, colors include Lipstick, Pretty In Pink, Margarita, Purple Passion, Pink Pearl, Ice Princess and I luv this one - "Nearly Naked" - Mercy, I'm almost 64 years old and I'm gettin excited at 5:00 in the morning. We also have plenty of the Wire Broom Rigs for those that that want em - We try to please everyone but it's not easy sometimes. Susan was catchin fish yesterday on "Nearly Naked", I think - - Thanks again everyone - River


----------



## bronzbck1

Margarita was the flavor of the day.


----------



## Fish'n Phil

River,
Given the popularity of SusanOBX rigs, you may need to come out with your own "50 Shades" rigs for the ladies...


----------



## Drum Bum

I can't believe I read the whoooole thread


----------



## bronzbck1

We whack'm and stacked'm again. Nice pomps still around


----------



## Loner

bronzbck1 said:


> We whack'm and stacked'm again. Nice pomps still around


....are these "Paper Pomps"?.....Down south here we be into "Paper Pomps", last little bit....no great numbers but quality up to 4 ib...............


----------



## Cdog

After years of chasing drum citations I am starting to understand the mullet/pomp heads. No citation, I don't think cuz I didn't weigh it, but a naked rig and a flea produced my biggest pomp to date today...


----------



## surfchunker

orange bead and a flea also works ... mullet liked the green bead and bloodworm a week ago


----------



## Plug

Sorry Clay, but if drum fishin' to you is about chasin' paper... then sorry Clay.


----------



## bronzbck1

Good job Clay. I consider myself a drum fisherman too, but when they aren't around you do what the Romans do. Fish for trophy pomps etc.


----------



## greg12345

Caught my first citation sized pomp 5y ago, since then I'm addicted...before then would catch the small ones which are ho hum but the "big" ones (>2lb) on "light" surf tackle is a blast. Eats pretty well too. They are "hard" enough to consistently catch for me as well...makes it a fun challenge too


----------



## greg12345

Oh yeah I fished the river rig this past week and am a believer. All of my fish came on the longer bottom drop...is that the general experience of most people as well, i.e. more fish caught on the longer drop than the shorter one?


----------



## DrumintheSuds

greg12345 said:


> Oh yeah I fished the river rig this past week and am a believer. All of my fish came on the longer bottom drop...is that the general experience of most people as well, i.e. more fish caught on the longer drop than the shorter one?


I caught the large majority of my sea mullet an black drum on the bottom trace. Caught some pups on both top and bottom. This is the case the majority of the time with my wire boom rigs as well


----------



## River

Greg12345, No, not at all - Sometime according to conditions, I would guess - that happens but sometimes the bite will be on the top one, but mostly it'll be staggered between the 2 with both catching - for those that tie their own, play with the drop lengths make them longer than the production version, there are so many different ways to tie the Rig, you can step your Fluoro size up to 40 or 50 lb test, put larger hooks on it for the larger types of fish, you can lengthen the sinker loop and raise the bottom drop off the bottom more, if you lengthen the Sinker loop very much, it will fluff open with water movement and the bottom drop may wash through it and tangle - the answer to that is, tie knots in the sinker loop to keep it from opening, you can also increase the distance between the two drops - there are so many different way to tie the RiverRig, along with so many colors and types of beads or teasers you can try to suite your own way of fishing, I've had a lot of fun over the last few years tieing it different way with different beads and teasers, even different colored beads on the top and bottom drops, sometimes you'll slam into something special and it'll change your day - we've even tied some up out of bigger line and big "J" hooks for wreck fishin off boats - make your drops shorter if you're a long distance caster to slow down the helicopter effect in flight - Try tieing your own Rigs - RiverRig Style, its fun - We've lost a lot of beach here on Hatteras Island but we can definitely start catching more fish to try and make up for it, If people catch lots of Fish here - maybe more fisherman will come back and help keep this beautiful Island alive and productive, Glad you did well Greg12345 - River


----------



## greg12345

That's good to know River. Here's what I have noticed fishing with "my" rig for several years...mullet don't care, they will hit any of the drops (i usually fish 2 or 3...they are long enough that with the angle of my rod they are all lying on the bottom)...but all of my citation-size pomps have always come on the bottom drop for whatever reason. Have caught smaller pomps on the "higher" drops but the big ones are always on the lower drop/snood/trace...maybe it is just a coincidence...Have you ever played around not only with bead color but with bead size...5mm, 6mm, 8mm...I think your rig is sold with a 5mm bead judging by the size of it...but I have always used 6mm or 8mm (usually 8mm)...bright orange (NOT the light salmon red-orange) has always worked best...


----------



## Loner

..after years of working thru "rigs" for pomps and wanting ONLY big pomps ...without a doubt the LONGER DROPS catch the quality fish......yes we have seen big fish landed on the store bought 2 hook shiny swivel rigs...but the CONSISTENT BIG FISH PRODUCER DOWN HERE is the LONG DROPS .......2 HOOKS and 15" drops is on 4-5 rods i fish and its the same for the ones i know that consistently produce 3-6 lb fish......
Maybe we are in a specil location down here..but in all honesty it is NOT UNUSUAL in a OCTOBER RUN to land 15-20 fish in 2 hrs and ALL BE OVER 2 1/2 LBS......some of us won't even weigh one til it looks over 3 lb and EVERY SEASON there are multiple 4s and a handful of 5's.....My big pomp is 5 lb. 5oz. ....
I am as satisfied with my rig as I can be and wouldn't think of changing a thing.....just had too much quality success....
But I haven't pomped at Hatt either.....
These fish ARE worth targeting and learning cause they just don't jump on the hook or the beach...great satisfaction in learning them and having consistent success.......but being a fisherman, I will get a "RIVER RIG" and look it over...I love to experiment and try a little new stuff ever season.................


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## River

Greg - I have tryed all size of beads and I prefer the smaller beads, 6mm, 5 and 4 - I do like bright Orange - its one of my faverites along with several others - while fishin the Rig over the last couple years, I have found that Red and Black Drum like Red beads - summer a year ago there were times I couldn't catch Sea Mullet for the Slot Drum hookin up on it, thats not a bad thing but you can only keep one here and I like to use my energy on fish I can eat - I'm also finding out now because of Susan how well all the different shades of Pink are working - River


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## Cdog

Plug said:


> Sorry Clay, but if drum fishin' to you is about chasin' paper... then sorry Clay.


I guess I should have said citation drum ie size rather than drum citations, I only have put in for 3 papers, 1 in Va and two in NC including my very first drum.


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## DrumintheSuds

I have gravitated towards a green bead or nothing in the past year or so. I don't target pomps as much as I do sea mullet and black drum......I have had some success with pink as well in the past......I haven't tried red very often but might have to give it a whirl although I am tying rigs now for late summer/early fall which means mostly naked rigs


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## greg12345

i used to use red exclusively before i specifically started chasing pomps...did well with it with all kinds of fish...have even caught blues and one spanish on fleas with that red bead...go figure


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## lookinglasself

Lots of good info in this thread. Definitely looking forward to picking up a few of these and trying them out..


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## Loner

...Lure Parts Online sells a ORANGE GLOW-BEAD...it ain't just orange or red....it glows ...even in the dark at the house.....$20 a hundred and I don't go nowhere without them.......


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## narfpoit

Loner said:


> ...Lure Parts Online sells a ORANGE GLOW-BEAD...it ain't just orange or red....it glows ...even in the dark at the house.....$20 a hundred and I don't go nowhere without them.......


not sure if it is the right color orange but found these on ebay for a lot cheaper. you could buy 1000 for $20


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## River

I luv the glow beads, those look good - I believe Cdog was useing a "Nearly Naked" Glow Bead when he caught that nice Pomp Sunday - we have several different colors of GlowBead Rigs out - looks like they're working real good, River


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## susanobx

River, Clay was fishing completely "naked"


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## NC KingFisher

Well heres to page 32, 36,740 views, and 796 replies:beer: All from an innocent question


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## caniac23

Can't believe I haven't responded in 32 pages of discussion on this topic but here is my take: Every tackle shop on the Outer Banks sells tons of Hatteras Drum rigs, but every serious drum fisherman makes his own. It will be the same with the River Rig. The shops will still sell plenty to people who don't want to do it themselves.


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## susanobx

NC KingFisher said:


> Well heres to page 32, 36,740 views, and 796 replies:beer: All from an innocent question


I'll drink to that!:beer: Wait, make mine a Margarita!


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## sand flea

After 36,000 views and 800 replies, this thread is off to Valhalla, aka the Fishing Bible. Thanks for all the awesome replies.


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