# OTG Cast



## surfchunker

I was surfing on Youtube and found a good Video for the OTG by Roger Mortimore ....... 

Good camera work and explained very well too


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## justinfisch01

I never really thought about practicing with only half the rod, it might fine tune my technique over the winter.


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## Redhorse

Good way to work on your stance and swing when you don't have a place to actually cast...opcorn:


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## WAT

*Hi surfchunker*

Thank you very much for sharing this info.


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## barty b

for those of you who don't know,that is Roger Mortimer, one of the best in the world,up there with Neil(Black Beard) and the likes. If you really want to learn about distance casting I would suggest you start here:http://www.myfishcasting.org/casting_forum/viewforum.php?f=1 

You will find ALL of the worlds best on this forum. I have improved immensely from the guys on this site as well as the videos. You will need to register as you would on any forum,Well worth a look


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## Tommy

Barty is right about the forum and about Roger. Roger is one of the all time great casters and instructors. Just found out a little tidbit about Roger (off of the above mentioned forum), he is one of only a small number of casters to cast an aggregate (4 different weights at one tournament, longest cast of each weight added together) total of over 1000 meters. That is AVERAGING 820' over 4 different weight classes.

Amazing.

I had the honor of casting with Roj as a teammate last summer at the Primo event. He is a class act as well as a great caster.

Tommy


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## barty b

I as well have had the pleasure of casting with both Neil and Roger,very amusing guys,funny as hell actually, and willing to share some good pointers and give some ABUSE I envy your trip to the Primo Tommy, That had to be the best time ever.


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## surfchunker

*Why*

I didn't know exactly who he was but I could tell he could hit it ........ I loved the up close view and the way he talked you thru it ........ 

I've been throwing some and having trouble somewhere and need to video it and see where I'm going wrong ........ very consistent ........ thought ...... accuraccy is ok ....... just short on distance ...... most I get is 105-110 yrds with the OTG and 4oz with a BY and OM Lite 12'

the HDX and 30 SHa is 110-120 yrds with 6 oz ......

varing my drop .... seems a little short but with it a little longer 2/3 I get wild and loose distance ..... I've got out more than Half though .... 

One other thing is where I place the lead .... If I put it 90 to the rod I have trouble ....... kinda straight It goes good just not far enough 

Gonna try to get some kind of video  

Been hitting a rec park by my work afterwards ....... Using a laser rangefinder too

so any coments on weight position and drop ........


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## barty b

I was told by Black Beard to drop the lead to the first butt guide,when you lay the cast out to set up,put your rod tip at 2 O'clock with the lead out 45 deg from the tip. Remember to Punch hard with the right hand and Pull hard with the left. Aim at the sky about 45 deg up from the horizon to get some air under the cast in flight. Practice practice practice some more,it will develop.


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## Railroader

All the videos in the world won't help as much as actually seeing someone make these type of casts in person.

I had watched video after video, and spent a lot of time searching the net for clips to watch, and I never quite understood the actual mechanics of the OTG or the pendulum. 

Barty showed me a couple of things in 15 minutes, that flipped the switch on. My cast has improved, and the short lesson got me past "the wall" I had hit at 100 yds...

I'm now closing in on 150...

Nothing like a little in-person instruction...


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## Tommy

SC,

As Barty said try the drop down to the bottom guide. Move a little at a time(1-2") until you find a drop that works well for you. Once you get comfortable, try to keep the drop the same each cast. Usually too much drop will cause the rod to feel a little "soft" and usually fly right. Too short and distance suffers. Sinker/Shockleader should be at or slight outside (away from body) of 90 degrees to the tip. This angle can change with amount of body rotation though.

Keep working, the ground cast is the fundamental cast that will make all other power casts come much easier.

Tommy


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## surfchunker

*Thanks*

I've been dropping the lead to the first eye most of the time .... most consistent there ...... 

I'd say the punch / pull is my problem ...... video will tell ...... 

The 100 yard wall is something to get over I guess ...... Practice Practice Practice ...... by spring I'll have it ..... Getting hooked on listening to the reel sing when you get it right  

Tommy ... I've felt the rod soft when I've had to much drop ...... timing of my release needs work too ..... sometimes it's a rocket and sometimes it is a pop fly ball ..... mostly it close though .... 

RR ..... I will climb that wall and meet you at the 150 mark soon ...... 

BB ....... thanks for the info too ...... this railroader will get it too 

Which rod/reel combo should I practice with, the OM/ BlueYonder or the 30 SHA / HDX


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## barty b

I used the OM/ Blue combo when I was perfecting my otg for fishing,I went through the same trials as you and one day it just all came to gether and I have never looked back,well some days I have to stop and return to the fundamentals but it comes back like riding a bike.


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## surfchunker

*Om/by*

Save money using the smaller reel ..... Less line to have to dig out and replace lol .....


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## Mark G

*more distance*

if you want to add a bit more distance try putting the BY on the HDX. If you are into experimenting with tournament casting, pick up the tournament butt for the HDX, I did and I am having a ball with it. The butt makes the rod 14' in total length. You may need to tape an extra guide on the butt to get the most out of it, really simple to do.

Also the blue yonder is a good caster, better if it is magged properly.

I have learned a lot also from the various sites, but as suggested it is better to see correct casting in person and better yet to get some one on one instruction. Try to make it to one of the sportcast events, you'll have fun and learn a lot more in a day than you will spending hours reading about technique.


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## surfchunker

*Surf Cat*

That was what Tommy said .... to put the BY on the HDX .... Not into tourney casting, just wanting more distance, 100yrds just don't get it, 

I'm 5 hours from the nearest beach so finding an event would be a big deal ..... not that I would like to go .... 

Thanks


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## Mark G

*No prob*

No sense buying the tourny butt if you won't be using it for that. 

The principles used at tournaments are much the same, and when I participated in one I threw OTG casts exclusively- I may never be a top tourny caster, but the practice has improved my fishing distance enormously- now throwing 6& bait over 130 yds. Prior to that I was tossing it maybe 80-90 yds.

All I'm saying is you don't have to be interested in winning tournaments in order to get a lot out of attending one.

BTW- there is one(tourny) on the schedule for Chrisfield MD, this fall. They are usualy held on a field, not at the beach.


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## surfchunker

*Video*

[Thanks Surf Cat .... It's not that I would like to go to an event once it's just kinda far for me ..... Just looking for extra distance when it's needed 

So now for the video ..... well in a few, I went down to the park after work made my first cast 120 yards ..... next 3 or so was back to 105-110 then I had 3 more that was 119-123 yards and the last one I broke off ..... this was the one I got a video of ..... not real pretty guys .... suprised I'm getting as far as I am .... poor foot work and pulling enough ..... 

Any constructive help is welcomed 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGp6xtIuqoM


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## surfchunker

*cast gone wrong*

Just a little loose line from the cast on the video .... Crap happens 
http://pierandsurf.com/photopost/showphoto.php
/photo/3101


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## gilly21

Hahahaha!!!!

The walk back to the camera says it all


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## Railroader

You cast like I do....  

I'd offer some advice, but I'm at about the same spot as you... 

I think I'm gonna slow my reels down to the point of being nest proof, sacrifice distance, and work on the mechanics, and then gradually speed 'em back up. 

That oughta give me an excuse to buy some ceramic bearings....


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## barty b

Actually man, Not a bad chuck(except for the crack off) Your rotation looks good and your not coming around too fast,Good arm position,you look pretty stable footed in the finish. and from what I can tell, sinker position and powerstroke plane seem to be ok. 
What I would work on,
1.Keep the left arm a little straighter
2.Punch harder on the "hit"
3.A little more bend in the knees at the start will give you a suprising boost in power.
Really you look pretty damn good,how are you controlling the reel,Oil,blocks,etc..and what test line are you throwing.


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## surfchunker

*Thanks*

15 lb suffix superior, for now white blocks, might drop down a size, and rocket oil, not sure which one, red stripe on the bottle, I'm not getting any loose line till the end and then stopping with my thumb ..... 

Us damn Railroaders  

Hope there isn't any lip readers out there ....  

Gonna keep working on it and see what happens ....


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## Tommy

SC,

You've got something to work with there.

First, relax. Don't try to kill it, work on the form and the power will come later.

Good set-up. Stance is good. You are taking a step, the ground cast will work with or without the step and since you already use it keep it.

LEAD WITH THE STEP.

Take the step. Concentrate on leaving the body and arms behind. Let the left toes touch the ground before unleashing the beast...lol. As the left toes are landing the body should be starting to turn. Think of the body uncoiling like a spring with the arms coming through last. Don't apply the power until the left foot has touched down. This gives you a solid base to hit the rod.

LOOK UP AT TARGET.

This will help with release angle (height) and directional issues. 

KEEP THE LEFT ARM EXTENDED

As you come around. Try to get it out in front of your eyes or better yet your forehead before you...

PUNCH AND PULL

This the final act. You add the violence to the cast here. With the left extended out in front of your face and the right out beside of or slightly in front of your shoulder, punch the right hand through to the spot that your left hand was, while you pull the left quickly to your chest.

oh yea,

Keep the right foot planted. It is your pivot point and you use it to "drive" into the cast. 

Hope this helps,

Tommy


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## surfchunker

*Thanks Tommy*

that's alot to digest but I will work on it for a for a while and see how it goes ..... Hopefully better  ..... 

I can see where I am ahead of myself basically, and my left arm bending too soon and not hard enough, kinda just going along for the ride, 

See the Target ... should be easy enough 

Keeping my back foot down will probably be my hardest thing to do .... got to push off ... 

Late last Sept we were down in Frisco and I could see a school of fish, albacore or something football shaped, bonita maybe 150 yrds out and I couldn't reach them ..... went on for a long time too .... this year I will reach them if they are Blitz'in again .... 

thanks again Tommy and Barty B


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## Mark G

Railroader said:


> You cast like I do....
> 
> I'd offer some advice, but I'm at about the same spot as you...
> 
> I think I'm gonna slow my reels down to the point of being nest proof, sacrifice distance, and work on the mechanics, and then gradually speed 'em back up.
> 
> That oughta give me an excuse to buy some ceramic bearings....


As for slowing reels down, I would only do that if you are having confidence issues. Too slow of a reel can actually mask poor timing and other issues that will pop back up when the reel is sped up. Run on the edge (close to blow up) when practicing, and dial it back some when actually fishing.


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## Mark G

surfchunker said:


> [Thanks Surf Cat .... It's not that I would like to go to an event once it's just kinda far for me ..... Just looking for extra distance when it's needed
> 
> So now for the video ..... well in a few, I went down to the park after work made my first cast 120 yards ..... next 3 or so was back to 105-110 then I had 3 more that was 119-123 yards and the last one I broke off ..... this was the one I got a video of ..... not real pretty guys .... suprised I'm getting as far as I am .... poor foot work and pulling enough .....
> 
> Any constructive help is welcomed
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGp6xtIuqoM


Good job with getting the vid camera out. THat is the first step- took me too long to realize that and when I finally did tape myself I started seeing all kinds of things I don't notice during the cast.

Good advice from Tommy and barty b, I'll emphasize a stable base will help you to put more power in later in the cast. As mentioned a little more bend in the knees will help. Keep comparing what you see to the video of Rodger M and others on you tube. 

Keep up the good work, you'll have those far out fish in your radar sooner than you think.


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## terpfan

*one mistake*

you are not following the line with your rod after the cast. it can lead to more birdnest and loss of distance.


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## CrawFish

terpfan said:


> you are not following the line with your rod after the cast. it can lead to more birdnest and loss of distance.


Because it was a broke off. I saw it too, but went back on reading the previous posts.


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## surfchunker

*Following*

The line with the rod ? do you mean lowering th rod tip .... not sure what you are talking about ...... 

I for sure need to get more stable ..... look like some drunk out there wobbling around


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## HuskyMD

like a follow-through if you've ever played basketball...


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## barty b

I have been told by more than one "good caster" to NOT follow the line, Leave the rod tip pointing at the same spot and not "pull" the line down.


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## Mark G

*just keep the rod tip*

pointed in the direction of the cast at follow thru.

Some people over extend on the follow thru and bring the rod down close to horizontal. Altho terpfan thought that is what happened I don't think he realized you had already broke off, as Teo was quick to point out.


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## Tommy

I have a pretty high finish / hit. After the hit I try to watch the line (sometimes tough to watch the reel for fluff at the same time ...lol) and slowly drop the tip to match the angle of the line leaving the tip guide. If you leave the rod pointed straight up like many casters do, then the line is coming off at an every increasing angle, ending at close to 90 degrees at the end of the cast.

The added friction will cost you distance.

Tommy


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## CrawFish

For those of you new to surf casting, please pay more attention to the this thread. I've learned a few things from reading all the post. It's part of final tuning your cast. Tommy and others have some very good points. Thanks guys.


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## creek

Great thread, I just saw it today. As far as videos, I have two that I bought from the best and I must say that the vid of Roger is from a better angle and is about the best I have seen, short but powerful.

Think it is time I get back to the basics for me. Great idea with the short rod although Roger suggests usuing a cut off broom handel also. Later i am off to practice


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## Railroader

Today, I finally found me a practice field big enough to safely work on the OTG. I spent some time with my OM-12H and a 525mag with 6 oz...

I'm getting better! Thanks to Barty and some of the videos linked here, I'm solidly into 400', and I got off a couple that were 450'ish. 

This is a BIG deal to me, as I have been stuck at the 300' mark for about a year.

It's cool to hear the reel scream well past your normal "hang time".

With practice, I think 500' is a milestone I can reach.

I gotta get me a measuring wheel...


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## surfchunker

*Video and stuff*

Yeah that is why I posted his video, just the way it is presented ...... up close and personal, you can bet I cut off a broom handle ...... propped up in the corner in the livingroom ..... put a little butt cap on it and piece of black tape for where my reel hand should go ....... 

well I know what a good follow thru is about ... shot a bit of sporting clays and a few years of trapshooting ... the last 4-5 yrs in a league ... form is very important and finishing is just as important ....... to get good you have to practice proper form and like Tommy said the rest will follow ....

Not much chance of pratice this weekend ...... rain all weekend .......


RR I like my laser range finder ...... I'm a Hunting HO too


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## fingersandclaws

Lots of great info guys!!! Thanks.

Don't mean to hijack, along the same lines, but what do you guys use as "weight". The bank sinker I use for practice gets "stuck" in the ground and I can't reel it back in. Is there a different weight you guys use?


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## terpfan

Many use baseball or lacross ball for practice.


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## surfchunker

*tennis ball*

I think I've heard of people cuting a tennis ball and putting the weight inside and then tape it up ....


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## barty b

I use a baseball, Weighs 5oz, Dont look for great distances with it though due to the aerodynamics. It works well for video because you can watch it track during the cast. I always warm up with the ball then switch to lead.


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## surfchunker

*Sinkers*

Which are better for practice Pyramid or Bank sinkers ......... anyone .......


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## barty b

I use the Storm style with the pyramid top and the round ball on the bottom. Or if you have some old sputniks,remove the wire legs and those work great.


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## surfchunker

*Little practice today*

went down and threw 6 times today 

all were 110-120 yards ...... done away with the step and felt more power coming from my back leg .... Spool was way low on line ..... Wouldn't want to hook up with something big with that little bit of line left ..... Probably lost 100 yrds with the blacklash the other day ... I believe I had to much line on before ..... Bout laid open my thumb on one cast with the Shock knot .... didn't have it all the way to the side ...... You can bet the farm It'll be all the way over from now on ....... 

I also bent my back leg at the knee more ..... much more balanced ...... I wasn't throwing as hard as the other day and had the same distance with more control


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## Mark G

surfchunker said:


> Which are better for practice Pyramid or Bank sinkers ......... anyone .......


Tournament sinkers- they are shaped a bit like a football and really fly- can be ordered from hatteras outfitters- also called beach bombs.

I practice tossing into my local lake so I can toss and reel the weight back in without having to walk to an imbedded weight on a field. Lose one occassionally to a snag but not often, and when I do I almost always wind up getting the sinker back later, sometimes on the next cast, sometimes on a later practice session.

If I run out of tournament sinkers I use a bell sinker- the ones with a swivel molded into the top of the lead. The swivel negates the need for a sinker clip- but be careful- after repeated hard casts the wire used to form the swivel gets bent back and forth and can break after a number of hard casts.


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## Black Beard

barty b said:


> I was told by Black Beard to drop the lead to the first butt guide,when you lay the cast out to set up,put your rod tip at 2 O'clock with the lead out 45 deg from the tip. Remember to Punch hard with the right hand and Pull hard with the left. Aim at the sky about 45 deg up from the horizon to get some air under the cast in flight. Practice practice practice some more,it will develop.


Barty, 90 degrees! BB


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## TreednNC

Just coming from a practicality stand point as far as what 'weights' your casting. From what fishing I do/have got done compared to the practice field, I took a tip from Subourban (Darkness) when he mentioned using your standard rig (typically FF) and adding say half of a 6-8" sassy shad on there for bait. I DO cut the bard and tip off of the hook because of where I practice, I dont want any kids finding a zing pow rig and getting hurt. 

Tennis ball does add drag and does keep you from having to go pull an embedded sinker out every cast but I havent compared it to a drum rig with 'bait'

I was impressed when I started casting throwing straight 8oz pyramid......450ish was the norm, sometimes more.......then I casted a drum rig with bait 

Not sure what, if any, difference it makes in building technique and correcting mistakes to use a full on rig or just straight weight but because I get so little time in the sand to fish, I practice as close to the real deal as possible. Although this whole tennis ball thing is growing on me as I get lazier and lazier and dont feel like walking down field to get a sinker out 

Any input on these thoughts would be most appreciate. Anything to help my cast.


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## surfchunker

*walk*

I don't mind the walk ... how else am I goin to find out how far I'm casting


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## TreednNC

surfchunker said:


> I don't mind the walk ... how else am I goin to find out how far I'm casting



True, very true. I generally pre-measure, using flagging tape tied to the grass or to sticks poked in the ground, starting at 300' out to 500' then eyeball it from there unless its considerably past my last marked distance... Then measure from the furtherest flag. I dont mind the walk, I spend 90% of my time walking at work out in the field. Just dont get alot of practice time and walking out to each cast takes alot of time when I generally only get 30-45min each time. 

Edit: Wish I was measuring 500'-700'

Edit 2: I should just buy some pin flags and write distances in increments of 25 feet on them


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## clpoudnine23

A lacrosse ball is a great way to practice your casting. It is smaller than a baseball or tennis ball and is a bit heavier. Because it is smaller and more dense, it will fly through the air much further than the other two. You can get a bright orange one for about $2. Just drill a small hole through it and run some 80 lb through it. Put a bead and a stopper knot on one side and a swivel on the other side and you are set. The bright orange is hard to lose just in case you crack one off.


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## JAM

*Real Real good info in this post*

Fella showed me to do this and it added a little distance, after the release on the cast to sight the weight and bait like you are gonna shoot it with a gun useing your tip keep the package sighted... Good for some added feet.. Bicycle intertube good for a couple of feet.. Holding the knot instead of puting it to the side more leverage more feet....Its a game of inches....Good stuff guys.. JAM


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## Mark G

surfchunker said:


> I don't mind the walk ... how else am I goin to find out how far I'm casting


Since I toss into the water I spool up with maybe 100 yds. of backing then tie on a known amount of line.

If I am averaging 150 yd casts I may add 160 yds to the backing. When I throw down to the knot at the backing I have a pretty good idea how far I have cast.

Of course if you throw really high you may throw more line off than actual distance achieved.  

Perhaps not super accurate, but even on a field this could save time with measuring. If you throw past the knot at the backing just step off to the knot and then add the known amount of line (assuming no break offs )


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## surfchunker

*Jam*

Ya lost me there on a couple points 

1. What is the intertube for ?

2. How do you hold the knot ? 

I don't mind the walk out, gives me time to think about the cast, then when I get there I shoot the laser back and ta da ...... + or - 1 yard


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## Mark G

*not putting words*

in Jam's mouth, but the innertube goes on the thumb to grip the reel.

I prefer the leather thumb guard the tackle shops sell. They will help you get a grip with your thumb around the reel- especially when it is wet.

The more power you put into the cast the more difficult it becomes to keep the reel from slipping. Some just cut up an old bicycle inner tube and insert around thumb. I tried that but the thing fit loose and kept flying off, so I was constantly losing them in the surf. THe leather thumb guard comes in different sizes an make for a nice tight fit. They cost maybe $1.50 or so and I have used the same one for over a year now.

Like Jam I reel the shocker knot in the middle of the spool and then grip the shock knot with the leather thumb guard- NEVER the bare thumb- you get incredible purchase by using the knot as leverage and can put much more power into the cast without fear of slipping- as long as you keep the thumb guard dry.

I use a range finder also when field casting, and as long as you have to dig the sinker out of the field you make the walk any way- no problem and more accurate than my method


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## JAM

*Surf Cat gots it*

Next time your down man check out the demo Ballistic.. Ballistic = more distance... JAM


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## surfchunker

*Jam and Surf Cat*

I bought a couple of the leather thumb thingies at RDT last time down .... not having to much trouble with slippage yet ...... 

Got a HDX .... much as I can afford for a rod  

Just got back from practice ...... first cast was 131 yards ..... yeah this is getting good then the rest were 115-120 ...... I can feel it in my back ...... guess building up muscles I normally don't use


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## ReelinRod

I found this diagram helpful when I was getting my OTG cast together.










Hand position and orientation is very important especially the lead (left for a RH caster) hand. It must be away from the body and in a "strong" grip not a "weak" one . . . I'll post a couple pics in a few minutes . . .


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## ReelinRod

Many guys when setting up, rotating around and laying the sinker behind them put their left hand in what I call a "weak" grip. It seems the arm/hand just falls into this position as one rotates/reaches back. This does two things, it makes it nearly impossible to get the left arm away from the body properly at the start and it diminishes the power the left hand should be applying throughout the cast _especially at the beginning_.

*WEAK GRIP*










The correct position is with the rod straight across the palm and the wrist at a 90 degree angle to the rod. This grip allows the left arm arm to begin away from the body and sets up the pull in the most efficient manner. 

*STRONG GRIP*


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## surfchunker

*Thanks Sgt_Slough*

Lots of good stuff goin on in this thread .....

Kept it coming people ...... the more we share the more we all learn


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## ReelinRod

Hey surfchunker, I too _just_ got a HDX; in fact it was delivered to me at the casting tourney on Saturday! Talk about chompin at the bit! I had to borrow a big guided 1509 for the first few rounds!

All I throw are spinners and in the casting tourneys all I do is OTG. The HDX has a great tip action for me, it doesn't collapse and it recovers quickly after the release. 

I only have about 8 casts on it but I really love the rod, got a new mono personal best on it! 

It's a great rod for the money that's for sure! Enjoy!


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## surfchunker

*Hdx*

Kinda keeping mine put up for now, the 12' OM Lite and BY is my practice rig ..... HDX cost as much as both the OM & BY, Just don't want it left in the back of the truck bangin around or getting stolen .... once I get better I will use it more ...... Trying to stick with one for now and not swapping back and forth .... Threw it a few times though, you know couldn't resist ....


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## CrawFish

*hdx*

I think you should use it more. It was hard for me going from a 12'6" rod to hdx(13ft). I had to adjust my casting to get it dialed in. I always practice with my go to rod, so I can get the real like I'm fishing.


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## Mark G

*HDX video*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5Db1dnXFD0

Good points and diagram by Sgt Slough.

Here I am tossing the HDX with the tourny butt- 14' long. The Pendulum cast I am just beginning to work on, so it was not the best (bit ugly actually :redface: ). You can see my grip at setup (I'm left handed) is as Sgt. Slough suggested.

Now I just gotta keep working on balance and keeping the leading arm straight for longer before the hit. and this and this and this,etc.


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## barty b

Sgt_Slough said:


> I found this diagram helpful when I was getting my OTG cast together.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hand position and orientation is very important especially the lead (left for a RH caster) hand. It must be away from the body and in a "strong" grip not a "weak" one . . . I'll post a couple pics in a few minutes . . .


Keep in mind that this is Phil Hyde's version of a "high inertia" cast. The initial set-up are VERY different than the OTG we are talking about here. Nothing wrong with this cast,just keep in mind that it is a different set-up and execution. In this version you start with the sinker laid out near your heel,there is not much body rotation at all and the motion is more over the shoulder,even though it states otherwise,It's more so than the OTG that Black Beard and most other guys are doing. A lot of force is put on the 1st 1/4 of the rod tip,I have seen a couple guys snap off rod tips trying this cast. I'll try to dig up the good video of this cast so you can see it.


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## barty b

O.k. here is the video of Andy Miller AKA Ledchukka demonstraing the high inertia version OTG. The sinker is just behind his right heel
http://www.led.chukka.btinternet.co.uk/bcvisual1.wmv 

You can see the difference in the two styles.


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## Mark G

*also known*

as the brighton or uni-tech cast.

A bit different than the OTG really, not a bad cast for crowded conditions. Much more straight over head.

My OTG needs a bit more room, as it comes around more from the side


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## sandcruiser

The wide sweep method seems to work best for me but I'm having trouble releasing at the right time. 
Any tips for timing release and positioning for aiming the OTG cast?
What a great thread.


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## Mark G

sandcruiser said:


> The wide sweep method seems to work best for me but I'm having trouble releasing at the right time.
> Any tips for timing release and positioning for aiming the OTG cast?
> What a great thread.


A matter of experimentation really. I'm left handed and if my release is early I'll know because the lead flies high and stays to the left of my target line. If I release late the lead flies low and to the right. ( should be just the opposite for right-handers)

Set up and alignment before the cast can be crucial (don't get lazy with footwork and body alignment)- a haphazard aim down the field can go all over the place. If on a field try to pick a target or two targets to give you a tight lane to focus on. Once set up make sure to get your head up and looking at your target as you turn into the cast. Trying to "kill" the cast will add to accuracy problems- put as much CONTROLLED energy into it as you can handle- beyond that things get a little wild.

The more around the body sweep you have the more potential for the lead to go further left or right. The more directly overhead (as in the video barty b linked of Led using the unitech cast) the straighter the lead will fly. In an overhead cast you can tell an early release- it will go straight but be rather high- a late release will also be fairly straight- but go very low. Hope this helps


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## Tommy

The best cure for release timing is to LOOK UP at the target when you turn. Pick a spot in the sky about 45 degrees above the horizon. Can be a cloud, anything really. Cast to it.

It sounds almost too simple but it works.


Tommy


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## sandcruiser

*great advice guys*

Lotz of learning going on here.


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## surfchunker

*More*

Nice Video there Surf Cat ....... Looked like a pretty smooth cast to me ...... It's finally winter here my practice time will go down now ........


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## Tommy

Guys,

I've got to say it is GREAT to see this much interest in the ground cast. I took a backwards approach, learned the hatteras cast first, the tournament pendulum next and really just last year took the time to properly learn the ground cast. It truely is the fundamental cast. The skills you hone from learning the ground cast can be carried over to the beach cast (hatteras) fishing pendulum and the tournament pendulum.

Stance, footwork, body rotation, hand position, lead position, looking up at the target, arm extension and the punch pull can all be practiced much more effectively with a static lead.

These skills can all be applied (in varying degrees) to your fishing casts.

:fishing: 

Tommy


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## surfchunker

*Tommy*

I never tried the OTG till this past summer and was just whingin it .......... really just getting serious about it ...... and seen where it is the place to start ....... I live kinda far from the beach so if I want to be able to get out there I have to practice here and get all the help I can here and anywhere else I can find it ...... never even seen anyone do a real cast on the beach ....... I started out surf fishing to just have something to do while the Mrs baked her hide ...... don't get me wrong I love to fish ..... each year I get a little more serious ........ This past year I have went over the edge and totally gotten into it ........ 

When the Big guns get on here and start posting it gets everyones attention

My Thanks to all of you guys ........ not going to mention names in case I miss one and don't want to hurt anyones feelings .......

PS what is a static lead


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## barty b

Static lead means the lead is not moving at the start of the cast.

This has been a very good thread so far. I am excited to see more guys showing intrest in distance casting. Of course I know it's just because the fishing has been slow. I am really into the whole tourny casting thing,almost as much as fishing, some of my friends think spend WAAAAY too much time "grass fishing" but I get a lot of satisfaction out of it so **** 'em! The're just jealous.


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## Tommy

For those that may not have seen it and have interest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqiJRry0goM

This is a clip I videod last summer while training for the Primo World Championship tournament. It shows a full tournament OTG cast in excess of 700'. The training paid off, I was able to take 2nd place to world record holder Danny Moeskops in the main event, Groundcasting.

Tommy


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## surfchunker

*Smooth*

It looks like I'm throwing as hard as you guys ... just nowhere as smooth ...... After 6 casts I feel it ...... I guess you guys just make it look easy ..... some day ....... i'm a slow learner ..... but If I get it watch out ..... 

when I was shooting trap it took me several years before I got my first 25 straight ...... not long after that I hit 100 straight ..... Started out in D class and moved up one class a season and then I finally got to A class ... never did make it to AA ...... 

BB ...... Grass fishing ...... LOL ......

I have to admit when that reel sings that is some sweet music ...... I kept Playing SurfCats over and listening to it ......


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## ReelinRod

barty b said:


> Keep in mind that this is Phil Hyde's version of a "high inertia" cast. The initial set-up are VERY different than the OTG we are talking about here. Nothing wrong with this cast,just keep in mind that it is a different set-up and execution. In this version you start with the sinker laid out near your heel,there is not much body rotation at all and the motion is more over the shoulder,even though it states otherwise,


I think the Hyde diagram is more like a typical OTG than the Unitech that Andy is demonstrating in your video. The diagram is useful for those learning the OTG keeping in mind one's exact foot placement at the oche & footwork (no-step/step, forward step or Xcast style side step) drop, and sinker/line angle to the rod is something the caster must refine according to his comfort, flexibility and equipment. 

As I said when I posted it, it helped me get my cast together, I didn't say it was the gospel. Seeing the plane coming in at 45-55 degrees in the rear view helped me stop coming over the top. 

The video of Andy is of a classic Unitech and yes, that places the sinker at the heel of the back foot. In the Hyde diagram the sinker is even with the caster and the oche and at least half a rod length behind him, the cast in the Hyde diagram is hardly a Unitech. 

I like a sinker/line angle greater than the 45 or so the diagram shows; closer to 90 degrees. Tip is about right, at 7 o'clock and my footprints would be swung clockwise a bit more because I take a step. Rod butt should be shown further away from the body, with the arms extended.

I have modified the Hyde diagram with what I consider the Off the Ground cast. It shows the changes I stated above and shows rough sinker/line angle ranges. Again, this is how I set-up, I'm not claiming this is the only way to do it. Any comments are welcome!










Just for giggles here was my OTG last year, I have smoothed things out a bit.






And here is the smoothness I'm trying to achieve . . . 700+ feet, Tommy


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## ReelinRod

I guess I should open another window and reload the thread before I hit the "post" button . . . 

Playing around re-drawing the diagram . . . 

Great cast Tommy! it should be posted three times in one night!  opcorn:  opcorn:  opcorn:


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## Tommy

surfchunker wrote



surfchunker said:


> It looks like I'm throwing as hard as you guys ... just nowhere as smooth ...... After 6 casts I feel it ...... I guess you guys just make it look easy ..... some day ....... i'm a slow learner ..... but If I get it watch out .....
> 
> when I was shooting trap it took me several years before I got my first 25 straight ...... not long after that I hit 100 straight ..... Started out in D class and moved up one class a season and then I finally got to A class ... never did make it to AA ......
> 
> BB ...... Grass fishing ...... LOL ......
> 
> I have to admit when that reel sings that is some sweet music ...... I kept Playing SurfCats over and listening to it ......



I understand completely,

It took me years to come to grips with the fact that hitting it harder doesn't mean longer casts. By adding body rotation, arm extension and concentrating the effort into _vilolence_ on the punch pull (hit) will give you the distance. Many casters try to kill it from the get go. The power needs to be applied when the left hand (right handed caster) is out in front of your face and the right is out beside or slightly in front of the right shoulder.

get the fundamentals down

Then hit it hard.

Tommy


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## Mark G

Good points by Tommy and Sgt Slough.

I'm always amazed at the smoothness of Tommy's delivery.

As Tommy pointed out adding body roation IMO is key to getting the rod loaded up before the hit.

In Sgt Sough's diagram he indicates a rod starting point of 7:00. I take the rod tip back even further, say to 9:00 and also lay the lead out at right angle (90 degrees) to the rod tip. I think this gives a little more time (for me) to progessively build into the cast.

Comparing that to Tommy's video he looks to be doing the same thing. This allows for plenty of body rotation to build up prior to coming around for the hit, and gives a wide arc path for the sinker to travel.

(not knocking Sarges setup, looks like it works quite well for him)- and that is important-finding out what works for you

I'm still working on the foot work and trying to keep a balanced finish,etc. LOL


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## barty b

I see what your saying now,Sarge, The modified drawing is more like my set-up,and yes Andy is doing a unitech, I just thought the original diagram might cause some guys to get confused about the lead placement and body rotation. I used that same diagram a few years back and got all screwed up,until Black Beard got me back on track  . I really need to get some video up,Thing is my digital only shoots 9 second vid clips at a time


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## surfchunker

*Latest*

Setting around and took the white blocks out of the BY and put in the Blue Ones ... they seem to be the smallest of the plastic ones ...... gonna skip the black ones ..... Snow tomorrow .......


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## surfchunker

*Damn Snow*

No Practice and no heat wave in the near future .... Weights haven't got here yet ... thought they would be here today ... ordered some 5oz for practice .... pack of egg and pack pyramid's ........ 

and Just ordered an idler gear and dual worm gear set ... comes with a new ceramic pawl also ... This little mod ought to slick up my Pro Rocket some ...... Next shopping trip will be the ABEC 7 Ceramic Bearings for the PR & BY .... 

I also got an email back from Abu about the brake block colors ...... White is the heaviest, Black and then the light Blue is the lightest .... 

So after practicing with the White and now I have the Blues ones in I ought to get some more distance when I can get back down to the field


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## surfchunker

*Right Down the Pike*

Warmed up a little today and made 3 casts after changing Brake Blocks .... when from white to blue the lightest plastic ones ...... 5 oz bank sinker with 15 lb line ....

1. 126 yards
2. 131 yards 
3. 134 yards ..... Thats over 400' .... Personal Best ...

All three casts were straight down the middle


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## Railroader

surfchunker said:


> Warmed up a little today and made 3 casts after changing Brake Blocks .... when from white to blue the lightest plastic ones ...... 5 oz bank sinker with 15 lb line ....
> 
> 1. 126 yards
> 2. 131 yards
> 3. 134 yards ..... Thats over 400' .... Personal Best ...
> 
> All three casts were straight down the middle


Congrats, SC! You throwing that HDX yet, or still on the OM???

I better get busy, you're gonna "run around" me...  


(railroad joke)


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## surfchunker

*Railroader*

Don't think you have to worry about me passing you anytime soon ..... 

And yes I still have the Blue Yonder teamed up with the OM Lite 12' .... gonna fish those two together and the HDX is for my 30 SHA ..... that should make a great 8nB combo ...... The OM seems to handle 5 oz rather well so far .... Haven't tried 6 yet .... 

My dual level wind bearing kit and idler cog gear with the bearing will be here this week sometime ...... Can't wait to see what that does for the Pro Rocket ....


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## Tommy

On 1-10-07 Surfchunker wrote,

"most I get is 105-110 yrds with the OTG and 4oz with a BY and OM Lite 12'"

On 1-27-07 Surfchunker wrote,

"134 yards ..... Thats over 400' .... Personal Best ..."

Very well done!!

   

Tommy


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## surfchunker

*Tommy*

I did do away with the step ...... just got me too out of balance ....... bending the back leg more too ..... slow small step forward ..... but I keep moving  

PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE


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