# Can distance be purchased?



## FishinMortician (Jun 19, 2007)

I was reading the thread started by KMW21230, and being one that tries not to hijack others, I chose to ask this question, with a new thread, and try to answer it too.

I believe distance can be bought in several ways. Using money, you can buy equipment and you can buy expert lessons. Certainly those items will give increases in distance. But which of the two is the best purchase?

You can expend cash or effort, which offers the highest rate of return?

For me, effort has offered the greatest increases in distance. Lessons from Tommy would have, and still would, offer the best results, but I live a long ways away- Florida. My club has graciously provided me with great things. This site, and others, also provide, freely I might add. But... my personal expenditures of pure effort have provided me with so much more.

My new reel, new rod, new line, etc, have only allowed me to do things, they have done nothing other. I chose to purchase those things, because I knew I would need them eventually, anyway. Why practice with tools that I would not be using on a field of competition?

I started with a spark of enthusiasm, and have carried myself forward with gobs of perserverence. I achieved 600 feet within about a month, then... the inevitable wall of doom was raised, and mortered well, I might add. It was frustrating to have early sucess, and then have months of frustration to follow.

I realized what I really needed to do was invest in myself. So the first investment that I bought was- time. Allowing myself to build a solid foundation, slowly, and with purpose. Hurrying only made things go bad, and wasted my time as I had to unlearn bad habits. 

Chasing rabbits down dead end holes was next, by that I mean trying to force myself to perform complex manuvers, that I was not ready to try. Bad advice came into the picture as well. Not mailciously offered you see, just taken badly by my over eagerness to accel at something that takes time to master.

Frustration can be an achievement killer. "Bad day" I would mutter to myself. Then my girlfriend did what girlfriends sometimes do, and she said something beautiful.

I have never looked back. 

I decided to start with a sound foundation, one based on balance and strength. I removed every movement I could until I was left with only the simplest components. Then I fixated on those few things.

I train daily, multiple times a day, mostly without my pole. I visualize the perfect cast. I imagine how it would/should feel. I do stretching exercises and strength training. I read and study the movements that are needed, and the theories of casting. I adapt my style and experiment with new adaptations. I ask myself- "Where is the sinker/ where should it be?" "What plane am I developing / what plane should I be developing?"

I close my eyes when I cast, so that the rod, line, sinker and reel can tell me what I am actually doing. I don't measure my casts anymore, could care less what distance the sinker flies. I want the cast to feel right. Did I hit the cast in my sweet spot, or did I force it?

My best casts are not measured in feet or yards, but rather by the yardstick of how they felt. Was it smmmooooth? Did I apply power in an increasing amount, or did I just maintain an intial velocity? At the finish, was my stance one of balance and strength, or was I mispositioned and weak?

The neighbor lady watchs the goings-on and yells that I cast like a girl. For a period of time she was right. She ain't right any more.

So I have rambled on enough for now, and in concluding, I believe I have answered an old question- Can you purchase distance? The answer is yes you can, but only if you spend wisely. Here's to hoping that all of your purchases are wise.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

Im glad my post spark this great post! I still believe it can be purchased... I'm still trying to get to where you are.. 600ft is great! The only people who dont believe distance doesn't matter are people who can't achieve it..



FishinMortician said:


> I was reading the thread started by KMW21230, and being one that tries not to hijack others, I chose to ask this question, with a new thread, and try to answer it too.
> 
> I believe distance can be bought in several ways. Using money, you can buy equipment and you can buy expert lessons. Certainly those items will give increases in distance. But which of the two is the best purchase?
> 
> ...


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## DERFM (Jun 19, 2004)

the best money you can spend is a casting lesson !!
a high priced rod and reel don't mean squat if you don't know what to do ,when to do it , and why you do it ...


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## Fishbreath (Nov 11, 2004)

DERFM said:


> the best money you can spend is a casting lesson !!
> a high priced rod and reel don't mean squat if you don't know what to do ,when to do it , and why you do it ...


Right on!! That being said, once you get the lessons and mechanics, its up to you to maximize your ability and odds, and if that means upgrading your fishing rod, so be it!


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

As with all sports, nothing comes easy. As a society we get caught up in the latest and greatest. We want to buy the hottest ball players glove or shoes expecting to have the advantage he/she does, forgetting they didn't have them when they were coming up the ranks. 

My point is, there is no argument whether quality components and gear is essential to top performance. (Just ask many of the top casters and I bet they are not using abu 5000's from wally-mart.) On the flip side, I guarantee you can put the most expensive bat in my hands and cleats on my feet and I will be struck out by many HS pitchers let alone pros.

I honestly believe components and gear can only carry you so far. The rest is up to you. To quote John Holden:

"The people who worry most about reel choice and tuning usually cast 100-125m. They are convinced that the latest CT reel, a new set of bearings or some exotic tournament oil would add significantly to their distances. With luck they may gain 10m. On the other hand, a couple of hours' tuition followed by a few weeks' practice could add another 50m using the same old outfit."

Paraphrasing a point made earlier, there is no such thing as a free lunch. You will spend something (time, money) to get something. You may not break records with you current set-up but, you will never excel without putting time in the field to learn how to use your gear.

Robert


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## LarryB (Apr 29, 2002)

There is a wealth of information available about distance casting and proper casting techniques but the real challenge is to find those pieces that best suit you and your style. Your own physical stature will tell you what is going to be most comfortable for you. Keep on the path that you have taken with the basic fundementals of good casting. Tommy may just in here also but I'm sure he would tell you that the off-the-ground cast is the basis for all other cast. If you can master the fundamentals of that cast then you will be well prepared for anything else and those current walls will fall at your feet.

You can buy distance but only if you are first willing to invest in learning the basics and PRACTICING. 

LarryB


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## FishinMortician (Jun 19, 2007)

I still am doing the Off The Ground cast. Maybe soon I will start learning pendulum, but there are so many things OTG casting has been teaching me.

I was trying to encourage KMW 21230 to keep after it. He seems commited, and wanting to accomplish something is half the battle.

BTW 600' was a while ago, I am so past that now. New reel, rod and line and all. Maybe I can get some time to pay Mr. Farmer a proper visit. Although people keep dying at the most inconsiderate times.


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

This is a great thread guys.

Can you buy distance???

Lord knows I tried for years. First it was the latest greatest drum rod (G Loomis 1448 back in '98) then it was that fancy Blue yonder reel with souped up bearings and rocket oil (man that sounded so COOOOL at the time), then it was a Breakaway 2/1 with the tourney butt and then a greys pz300t. I was looking for that magic combination, that secret something that the big hitters just had to have, or so I was convinced, in their rod or reel to hit those numbers. During this time period my distances did increase but not tremendously. I hit a wall at 550' that seemed insurmountable.

In 2000 I attended a Breakaway seminar. Some great casters were there as instructors. Guys like Nick, Big Dave, Ryan White and Roger Mortimer. I saw something on day one that just blew me away. Roger got on his knees, and with a butt section of a borrowed rod I watched him cast over 500'..... 

That made an impression on me. The $$$$$ flow had not really given me the return on investment that proper technique could. I started a quest for knowledge that day. Those that know me know just how much I pestered guys like Jerry Valentine (great man, great caster) Big Dave and Bill Kennedy. Bill finally got it through my head that I could not cast like a guy 6'5", I had to cast like the short armed stocky fellow that I am. The best casting related money I ever spent was not on a rod or reel, but on a seminar that Peter Thain instructed. He taught me the mechanics of the cast in a way that I could comprehend. That 100.00 investment took me from a consistent 675-700' caster to another level.

I know this is a rambling post but one that I feel strongly about.

Learn the fundamentals. Learn the groundcast. Throw it until you have it right and then throw it some more. Find a competent caster that can help you. The investment in time spent learning the proper techniques will pay more dividends than buying the latest greatest zziplex that looks great, impresses your buddies but just kicks you butt to cast....  

I'm glad to help.

Tommy


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

Thanks for the incouragement. I am out there for at least an hour 2-4 days a week. I had made some improvements, but I agree a good 4 hour lesson from Tommy will do wonders... I plan on getting to NC to meet up with Tommy.. It will probably have to be after the fishing has slowed here in maryland.. LOL 

I do believe that the most important thing is putting in the time.. Practice will always get your futher than high end equipment. That's why I hate when a newbie post a distance question, and the first thing one of use tell them to do is get a custom_____, and magged _____. (Fill in the Blanks..)

I'm not sure of your setup, but for the kind of fishing I do 600ft (with fishing equipment) is all I need right now. MAN! If I could cast 200yards with 6oz and 15-17lb test!!!! you're about to make me go back and practice..




FishinMortician said:


> I still am doing the Off The Ground cast. Maybe soon I will start learning pendulum, but there are so many things OTG casting has been teaching me.
> 
> I was trying to encourage KMW 21230 to keep after it. He seems commited, and wanting to accomplish something is half the battle.
> 
> BTW 600' was a while ago, I am so past that now. New reel, rod and line and all. Maybe I can get some time to pay Mr. Farmer a proper visit. Although people keep dying at the most inconsiderate times.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

that 5 hour drive will be a beast but I need that 600ft... LOL



Tommy said:


> This is a great thread guys.
> 
> Can you buy distance???
> 
> ...


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## DERFM (Jun 19, 2004)

> Practice will always get your futher than high end equipment.


gotta disagree with ya on this one ...
inexpensive equipment does have it limitations ; i guarantee i can cast further with a 1508 allstar than i can with a tica or an ugly stick 


> That's why I hate when a newbie post a distance question, and the first thing one of use tell them to do is get a custom_____, and magged _____. (Fill in the Blanks..)


i will agree with this  
but most of the time they don't know how to cast , so a lesson is still the best investment you can make .
second is to try every rod you can get your hands on , cause one of them is gonna fit you and your casting style .


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## Webmaster (Jun 13, 2005)

I had some of the best equipment available, and
I ‘thought’ I was casting pretty good, until last
year standing next to Tommy Farmer and Ryan White.
My sinker hadn’t hit the water yet, when the advice
flowed fast and furiously; and rightfully so – my “pretty
good” compared their “pretty gone” wasn’t even in the same
ball park.
I took their advice to heart and began working, almost
to no avail. We were fishing and I wasn’t actually taking
a lesson – lots of perfect advice, but I was hard for me to
put it all together.
Then I sent Tommy a video of my foolishness and
a requested to be an on-line student. His analysis made
a huge difference, because about all I was doing
correctly was in casting in the right direction.
Then Tommy came out with the two “Fundamentals”
videos and the light got turned on, big time. All the advice
that I had received came together and I been making
regular improvements ever since.
I’m not an athlete, i.e. my mind to body link is
slow so I have to cast virtually every day until it
sinks in and stabilizes. Thanks to Tommy I have
picked up 150’ and still climbing. 150’ farther than
the last time I fished next to Derf & Deb. 150’
farther than the 4/4/2007 Drum Blitz.
A lesson and practice, practice, practice will
buy one distance.

Roy


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## FishinAddiction (May 9, 2006)

same here.........i had to go back to OTG and start over again when I hit the wall.....used OTG for a while...cemented my mechanics and when back to the modified hatteras cast.....much better distance after that


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## Sea Level (Nov 20, 2005)

Paul,

Last March when you made your first casts with one of my conventional outfits, I had no idea that you would be chasing rabbits down dead end holes several months later. Sounds like you are definitely committed and making great progress. 

Come on over and let's do some fishing. The water should be cleared up real good this week.

Go Gators!


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## beachman (Apr 27, 2007)

As a senior senior (over 80 yrs.) I can, from the heart, tell you guys it never pays to stop trying to learn and do better. Thanks to Neil and Tommy and their tidbits of wisdom, given so freely to all, many of us have read, learned and set realistic goals for improvement. Personally have developed better casting form and distance. In the beginning I really "STANK" at casting and now with their on line guidance and pointers I don't "STINK" as badly. Thanks guys for the valuable pointers. Maybe when I'm 90 I will challenge both of you to a casting contest providing you give me a 900' head start


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## LarryB (Apr 29, 2002)

Fellow Caster, the lack of a local casting club here in the metro D.C. area hurts our ability to get together and help eachother. If anyone knows of a field that is free from soccer, dog walkers and anyone else then we may have a site suitable enough to have Tommy come up for a seminar. Securing a field that's large enough is critical so if anyone knows of any locations that we could use please let myself or Tommy know and we can start to make plans.

Thanks,

LarryB


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## kingfish (Feb 28, 2004)

Larry B, You been casting, you ready for the big Danny, only need three, Yo Rolland and Tommy. Maybe some body is better but they ot to prove it.


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## Black Beard (Jan 25, 2001)

FishinMortician 

I do not know where in Florida you are, but I will be in St Augustine the last two weeks of November and would be happy to give you some instruction.

BB


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

Getting a group together would be an awesome Thing. Man, it would be nice to get Tommy up here.. You are 100% correct... The problem would be getting the space lockdown. Our best bet would be for one of us to talk to some land owner... Someone that owns tons of acres, and wouldn't mind up spending the day on his land. For you guys that fish romancoke you know there are tons of casting fields on the way to the pier.. Does anyone know any of those land owners?



LarryB said:


> Fellow Caster, the lack of a local casting club here in the metro D.C. area hurts our ability to get together and help eachother. If anyone knows of a field that is free from soccer, dog walkers and anyone else then we may have a site suitable enough to have Tommy come up for a seminar. Securing a field that's large enough is critical so if anyone knows of any locations that we could use please let myself or Tommy know and we can start to make plans.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> LarryB


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

FM,

If there is anyway possible you should meet with BB and take him up on his offer. He is a multi-time world champion (sorry neil, forgot the number) and held the distance casting world record for, I think, 14 years.

KMW,

I'll be glad to come up and do a seminar. The SCUSA Nationals are in a couple of weeks, after that my schedule should free up a little.

Tommy


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

tommy i will do anything i can to get a group together... I guess us Maryland\No Va Guys that seek great distance must step up and make this happen..


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## fingersandclaws (Oct 17, 2005)

What's the motivation behind wanting greater distance?

Is it:
1. Distance in it self is all you strive for (like climbing a mountain).

2. To get to the fish.

If #1 is your answer, good for you and that's awesome. If #2 is your answer, do you really need to throw it out some crazy distance to catch big fish? In MD, you don't need to to try and hit England to get into the fish.

I'm just curious what you guys are thinking is all opcorn:opcorn:


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

I know in NC, there are times that you need to be able to cast just as far as possible, not always, but there are occasions that call for it. Saying that, #1 easily lends itself to improve #2. 

Robert


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

*Distance*

1. Some of us fish in other places. Maryland is cool, but sometimes it's nice to fish other places.

2, I would think that all of us would want to continue to improve as fisherman. Some may want to step their Lure game up. Other may want distance.

3. On the perfect day at the beach you would have no problem getting to that sweet spot that's 100 yards out. We must remember WIND, Rain and other elements. It's some days when the average fisherman can't get 100 yards do to the conditions. That's when being a skillled caster would come in. If you can cast great distances on a good day you should be able to get to your sweet spot even on some of the worse days.. Just my opinion..


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

The ability to cast a bait for distance is just another tool for surf fisherman. Just like rods, reels, that favorite lure and your secret honey hole the long cast is another skill that can improve your catch.

Are the fish always out past the second bar.....

Of course not. But if they are, it is pretty cool to be able to reach them when nobody else on that stretch of beach can. You can always throw short....

:fishing:

Tommy

ps, yes, casting can be addictive kind of like that mountain. It is a challenge and its easy to get hooked.... pun intended...lol


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## Webmaster (Jun 13, 2005)

During the 4/4/2007 Red Drum Blitz at The Point, everyone casting
400 and shorter were generally catching average yearlings. I caught
two yearlings that day.
Half a dozen people, at the most, who were casting greater than
500’ caught a Monster Bull, almost every cast; most past 500’
each person caught 10 or 12 that day.
THAT’S WHEN I DECIDED TO GET VERY SERIOUSE ABOUT
MY CASTING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## LarryB (Apr 29, 2002)

Casters, we are working on a field now to possibly host Tommy for a seminar. We will let you know once things start to take shape. 

The Big Danny Tournament sounds like a great experience and opportunity. Unless I'm able to knock-off a lot of rust then we will need to count on some of the younger guys to pick up the torch.

LarryB


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

let me know if i can help in any way... Even getting there early and help set up the field... 



LarryB said:


> Casters, we are working on a field now to possibly host Tommy for a seminar. We will let you know once things start to take shape.
> 
> The Big Danny Tournament sounds like a great experience and opportunity. Unless I'm able to knock-off a lot of rust then we will need to count on some of the younger guys to pick up the torch.
> 
> LarryB


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*distance*

Yes, and so can love.


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## Sea Level (Nov 20, 2005)

Black Beard said:


> FishinMortician
> 
> I do not know where in Florida you are, but I will be in St Augustine the last two weeks of November and would be happy to give you some instruction.
> 
> BB


Neil,

I was fishing with Fish Mort this morning. I asked Paul if he intended to take you up on the instruction offer. He had not visited the thread since his last post, so was unaware of the offer. 

As we previously discussed, we'll carve out some time to fish during your visit.

Cheers,
Jeff


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## Custer (Jun 14, 2001)

Webmaster said:


> During the 4/4/2007 Red Drum Blitz at The Point, everyone casting
> 400 and shorter were generally catching average yearlings. I caught
> two yearlings that day.
> Half a dozen people, at the most, who were casting greater than
> ...


Same thing happened 4-29, 30, 5-1, 5-2/07...

But I had experienced what you did too many times in the past and was prepared...

I was the one catching fish that time


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## FishinMortician (Jun 19, 2007)

Thank you- gentlemen. I read all of your comments, and agree with almost everything. 

The offer from Black Beard was most gracious, and I replied to him with a email. It is just what I need at this point. Late November can't come fast enough.

I hope you guys can get Tommy to come to Northern Virginia. I am from that area, and used to know alot of the farmers around that area. Sorry I can't help.

I have been thinking about what a master might say after watching me cast. I have been thinking about what I might ask them.

Practice continues. I have good rotation, extension, but it is hard to learn to administer the "violence"- at just the right second, all the while maintaining composure and balance. I am gaining confidence though, and that is a good thing.

As to why I do this thing- I like it. It offers me a sense of accomplishment. It is also very handy to be able to reach a bait pod from the beach. Birds diving, fish flopping on the surface, and there you are- 50 yards short!!!!!

NE Florida means long shallow beaches. Pompano like clean water. You have to cast a long ways, or go home empty handed. Not always- but enough times to make it worth while to learn to long cast.


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## bloodworm (Jan 5, 2007)

DERFM said:


> gotta disagree with ya on this one ...
> inexpensive equipment does have it limitations ; i guarantee i can cast further with a 1508 allstar than i can with a tica or an ugly stick
> 
> Been meaning to ask you guys can you cast just as far with a cheap surf rod like an ugly stik or an eliminator compared to a tourney rod like a zziplex or a century what I hear just like DERFM
> ...


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

I gues we could break this down into two lines of thought.

1 - Can distance be purchased??

2 - Can your casting distance be limited by low quality gear??

I'll start with #2. Absolutely. If you are a big strong guy and you are out there trying to really crush an Ugly stick or a non discript wallyworld surf rod then you can indeed be limited by the gear. By buying a better rod you would see an improvement in casting distance without a minute spent in the field practicing, assuming you didn't make the mistake of buying a super rod that you just can't bend.

From that perspective then you can indeed purchase distance. 

Ok, what about _real_ distance. I'm not talking about throwing a sinker 700'+ over grass but the ability to cast that 6 oz sinker and a small bait out 175-200 yards. Being able to cast 8nbait an honest 400-450' with fishing gear.

You cannot go to RDT, HO, HJ or any other tackle shop and make that purchase. It takes dedication and time spent praticing to get there. Some guys have natural talent and can get there quick, but it is technique and not $$$$ flow that gets them there.

Quality gear can open the door, but you have to be willing to walk through.

Practice, practice, practice

Tommy


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

very true... now what's the status on you come to NoVa?



Tommy said:


> I gues we could break this down into two lines of thought.
> 
> 1 - Can distance be purchased??
> 
> ...


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## Rob Clarke (Jan 17, 2007)

*600' Otg?*

I'm curious how you measured your 600' OTG cast. 600' is a hell of a cast OTG; I don't think I've seen people throw 600'OTG in warm-ups at tourneys.


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## mantriumph (Sep 12, 2006)

*otg*

Oh,ive seen them,with spinners,ugly sticks,but he has since retired


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