# Drum rig question



## Guest (Dec 5, 2016)

On the Carolina cast pro site Mr. Farmer sells his pre-made fish finder drum rigs. Can anybody tell me what the purpose is for the Rosco McMahon clip that is attached to the swivel of the bite leader? Why not tie the shock leader or mainline directly to the swivel with the bite leader and hook? Then a bead on the knot and sinker slide. Is the purpose of the clip and extra swivel to give one the ability to change hook sizes easier or change bite leaders quicker if it gets mangled? Thanks in advance!!


----------



## ez2cdave (Oct 13, 2008)

Hi, Oister,

To me, it appears that the McMahon snap is used to allow rigs to be swapped rapidly, as you mentioned. Those could be rigs with different sized hooks, replacement of a damaged rig, or to allow pre-baited rigs to be exchanged, in order to speed up re-baiting.

Tight Lines !


----------



## dawgfsh (Mar 1, 2005)

The Mcmahon is used as a sinker slide. we usually putt a bead on the shock, then run the shock thru the eye of the Mcmahon and tie to the swivel that's attached to the bite leader and hook. then clip on a sinker.


----------



## Guest (Dec 5, 2016)

I See now..... that is the sinker slide. I was looking at it thinking there would be a knot and bead on the swivel with the clip and sinker slide above that. But wouldn't you be worried that the thin metal of the swivel eye would tear into the line sliding up and down? I normally use the blue heavy duty braid slides.


----------



## 1BadF350 (Jul 19, 2006)

Yes, the swivel is used as a sinker slide and will not hurt your leader.


----------



## DaBig2na (Aug 7, 2011)

Dave is an Idiot who doesn't fish! He is an Internet Fisherman 

The beads protect the knots as your sinker slide move up and down you line, and also act as a Stop. Throw every one of those blue and semi clear slides away. Unless you have Dave standing to your right about ten feet away. That is if you are a right handed caster. Then use them until you run out..

The McMahon snaps are extremely strong and you can easily put your sinkers on and off. It travels up and down your shock line or the line of your rig (CannonBall/ Tommy Harris). Depending on how you like your rig set up and the fishing conditions.

We will teach you to make your own rigs and make them well. After. You go through about fifty or more a season you will know what I'm talking about. Tommy Farmer makes a fine rig no doubt but as a fisherman you'll want to make your own. Bought rigs are really expensive, combined with store bought eight ounce sinkers. I make everything up for just under $2.00 sinker included.
Sorry, I don't sell any... You'll have to find the most economical way to make your own.. If that is the route you choose.

ABU Mike gets a great deal on these McMahon snaps and makes up an order once a year if memory serves me well. I'm didn't get in on it this year and don't remember if he got one up either.


----------



## dialout (Feb 5, 2011)

His last bulk order was a bit of a fiasco for him if I remember correctly , he may not offer to do it anymore.


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

dialout said:


> His last bulk order was a bit of a fiasco for him if I remember correctly , he may not offer to do it anymore.


It was kinda but I may do another. I think my minimum order now is 2000 of each.


----------



## Guest (Dec 5, 2016)

I do make my own. I Snell to the hook with 80 lb ande clear. Then I use a crimp to a swivel instead of a knot. Add a sinker slide and then a bead to my main line and Palomar knot on the swivel. I just started to use a a double crimp at the connection of the bite leader and swivel to completely eliminate any tag end because I do notice if I get a helicopter the mainline likes to catch on the tag end of the crimp. I also notice that the main line sometimes tangles on the dura lock snap that comes on those sinker slides. The McMahon snap looks like it would help in eliminating that as it has nothing to catch on. I probably could get away with one crimp and cut the tag end flush but I always worry that if it slipped a little I would lose it all.


----------



## Guest (Dec 5, 2016)




----------



## 1BadF350 (Jul 19, 2006)

Many of us do not use the plastic sinker slides because of their tendancy to fatigue and weaken, increasing the likelihood of an accident on the pier. 
I used to use them too until i was set straight.


----------



## DaBig2na (Aug 7, 2011)

You got the right idea... One crimp is sufficient as long as you are using a good set of crimpers. You will need the 1.0 double crimps for 80#.
Shorten up your bite leader to about 2 inches.. Use a 100# barrel swivel for your slide and get rid of those damn blue things.. The metal snaps are fine to use on the above mentioned 100# swivel to connect your sinker to.


----------



## dawgfsh (Mar 1, 2005)

Put the bead on the other side of your sinker slide so it stops on the shock knot. Prevents the sinker from coming up the main line and tangleing with other lines around you.


----------



## 1BadF350 (Jul 19, 2006)

I use a bead on both sides of the sinker slide


----------



## SteveZ (Nov 30, 2006)

Oister said:


> I probably could get away with one crimp and cut the tag end flush but I always worry that if it slipped a little I would lose it all.


I'm a bit anal but when I crimp I put a wee drop of super glue on the line or leader and slide the crimp over it. Then I can cut the tag end flush. Have never had a problem.


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

1BadF350 said:


> I use a bead on both sides of the sinker slide


Really not needed on the swivel side. The swivel on the sinker slide will go over the knot and not really bang on it.


----------



## 1BadF350 (Jul 19, 2006)

AbuMike said:


> Really not needed on the swivel side. The swivel on the sinker slide will go over the knot and not really bang on it.


Youre right, but old habits are hard to change. Makes me wonder if the bead on the hook side is actually worse than no bead.


----------



## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Wow

I guess it's good to see my rigs getting press...lol

Oister, you have been given correct (mostly) advice here. The McMahon clip holds the sinker and the attached swivel serves as the sinker slide. Shock leader runs through the swivel eye (end not attached to McMahon clip) and is tied to the short hook bite leader swivel. One bead goes above the slide to prevent the sinker from backing up past the shock knot (source of MANY "point" tangles), sinker below is optional. I use one below, many fishermen do not. IF you choose to use a nylon slide, USE THE HEAVY DUTY BLUE ONE, the lighter one will split and send your payload straight down the beach. I prefer to keep the whole package as compact as possible and the McMahon serves that purpose very well.

Tommy

ps, I can supply the Mcmahon/swivels to those that want to tie their own.


----------



## Guest (Dec 8, 2016)

Ok thanks. I always wanted to try just a swivel with a dura lock snap but I thought the swivel eye would cut into the leader hence having the plastic sleeve for the line to run through. I only use the heavy duty slides but hate the dura locks. Eventually I will get a helicopter and it always catches on that snap. I will switch to them McMahon snaps because obviously they are stronger but also less chances of tangling. I have shortened my bite leaders to about 6 inches a few weeks ago on the new rigs I tied. That leader in my pic was from an old batch that was easy to access that morning for a pic.


----------



## DaBig2na (Aug 7, 2011)

Shorten your bite leaders unless you want it to keep looking like a Helicopter coming in for a landing
Below are what they should look like. I've included J-hooks as well as Circles









Sinker slides should look like below picture. The left and the center are the most economical and cost me about nine or ten cents..also extremely strong
. The one on the right, is one of some ABU Mike shipped me 2015 season. i can't remember the exact price but much more expensive


----------



## Adam (Feb 19, 2001)

You can go even further shortening leaders. Mine are 1" or less, 100lb Billfisher leader material. McMahon or 1-2/0 coastlock swivels for your sinkers. Makes for a very simple rig thats easy to work with in the dark/wind.


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

DaBig2na said:


> Shorten your bite leaders unless you want it to keep looking like a Helicopter coming in for a landing
> Below are what they should look like. I've included J-hooks as well as Circles
> 
> View attachment 29577
> ...


Yes they are more expensive than the other choices out there but well worth it. I would like to mention that the group buys I did were passed on AT COST + Paypal and shipping. They were like $.44--$.49 each depending on the quanity. Last time I saw these in a shop they ran $1.25 and up each. No matter where you get them make 100% sure they are the Rosco brand. The lower cost Berkley brand ain't worth crap.


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

I have never like crimps personaly but many use them and they are ok when used correctly, but when used incorrectly they WILL COST YOU FISH. A 3-4 turn snell and a 3 turn nail knot can easly be learned and are just about if not 100% knots.


----------



## BritBri (Dec 1, 2015)

Im no expert on drum rigs or why so many varying lengths are used, maybe its just personal preference or maybe its a technical reason , but any length hook leader could be clipped up to give a more aerodynamic bait which would also stop helicoptering and increase distance if need be.


----------



## DaBig2na (Aug 7, 2011)

AbuMike said:


> Yes they are more expensive than the other choices out there but well worth it. I would like to mention that the group buys I did were passed on AT COST + Paypal and shipping. They were like $.44--$.49 each depending on the quanity. Last time I saw these in a shop they ran $1.25 and up each. No matter where you get them make 100% sure they are the Rosco brand. The lower cost Berkley brand ain't worth crap.


And what you do is greatly appreciated too Mike.... ABSOLUTLEY awesome deal you provide for sure.
I have some of these Berkley pieces of crap I have recovered from break offs of others, and you can tell a significant difference in the two brands.

I won't use them pesonally, but I will help a newbie out tie a rig on for them and use those.


----------



## VA-Apraisr (Jul 31, 2001)

For those that make their own weights, I simply put a 100# test barrel swivel through the brass eyelet before I pour the lead......makes an easy fishfinder slide rig. All my weights already have the swivel attached for easy rigging during a bite. Further, I don't use any beads since bluefish seem to really like the colored glass. I use same size swivel on my hook and weight so when casting its metal-to-metal contact. To keep weight from climbing leader, I tie on a 3' section of 100# test and tie large knot to keep weight from going onto the 50# test casting leader. This 3' section also helps keep drum/sharks from wearing through the line and a good heavy leader to help land the fish at the surf line.


----------



## DANtheJDMan (Aug 29, 2012)

The 2 inch or less thing is the real deal for your drum rig. 

I learned to snell a hook and tie a nail knot to the swivel. 

I use an upholstery needle that I bend at about 5 inches long to tie a 7 turn nail in 80# mono to the hook.

The slide of the rig is 80# tied to the swivel with a nail and the other end has a spider hitch for the loop. 

I had never caught an oversize drum before I started doing the less than 2 inches from the swivel. 

Now I can't count the over 40" drum I've caught on one hand. I know that is nothing for you NC boys but it is pretty darn good for an Iowa boy. 

I hooked a 5 ft bull shark just right on a rig like that and landed him after a 20 minute fight. 

A good nail is just like a crimp. 

Tommy has a good rig there.


----------



## dawgfsh (Mar 1, 2005)

The biggest problem with the short hook to swivel leader is bite off's by sharks. When that starts happening a little longer leader (5-6") will save a lot of sinkers and swivels.


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

dawgfsh said:


> The biggest problem with the short hook to swivel leader is bite off's by sharks. When that starts happening a little longer leader (5-6") will save a lot of sinkers and swivels.


True, this is when that clip-down rig will come in handy. I have been researching the "Imp" I think it's called for this situation.


----------



## BritBri (Dec 1, 2015)

AbuMike said:


> True, this is when that clip-down rig will come in handy. I have been researching the "Imp" I think it's called for this situation.


Excuse my ignorance Mike but how will you use an imp to clip down a drum rig ?


----------



## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

DaBig2na said:


> Shorten your bite leaders unless you want it to keep looking like a Helicopter coming in for a landing
> Below are what they should look like. I've included J-hooks as well as Circles
> 
> View attachment 29577
> ...




2na that’s how I tie my rigs. How long do you make yours? For the sinker slides I’m not sure I would use the one in the middle.


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

BritBri said:


> Excuse my ignorance Mike but how will you use an imp to clip down a drum rig ?


A loop and crimp at the hook.


----------



## DaBig2na (Aug 7, 2011)

Fishman said:


> 2na that’s how I tie my rigs. How long do you make yours? For the sinker slides I’m not sure I would use the one in the middle.


If I'm just tying on to shock leader I use the ones I have pictured.. Sometimes Js, sometimes Circles..after I run out of circles I will probably go exclusively with Js.. (Another topic and debate entirely)

I eyeball two inches between between the crimps.. Some might be bit shorter. I am not that damn anal...I like using a crimp on the swivel end because it's faster, especially if you have a good set of crimpers. Some guys like tying their swivels on, and that's cool too if that's what they what to do. 


You mentioned my sinker slide connectors.
As far as my sinker slide connection.. I used to use either Coastlocks or McMahons. But a couple years ago I was fishing with "The Redheaded One" (I've learned a great deal from him over the last 20 or so years.) That's what he uses, and after a chat with him about it; it makes economic sense to me to use the connectors or whatever is less expensive and safe. I've never had one fail and nor has he.


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

DaBig2na said:


> If I'm just tying on to shock leader I use the ones I have pictured.. Sometimes Js, sometimes Circles..after I run out of circles I will probably go exclusively with Js.. (Another topic and debate entirely)
> 
> I eyeball two inches between between the crimps.. Some might be bit shorter. I am not that damn anal...I like using a crimp on the swivel end because it's faster, especially if you have a good set of crimpers. Some guys like tying their swivels on, and that's cool too if that's what they what to do.
> 
> ...


 I have watch the "redheadedfella" tying an unusual rig for a few years now.. Never paid that much attention to it,but got to check it out this fall.. It saves a little more on terminal tackle.. Use a 3' piece of 80,snell hook at bottom,tie overhand knot about 2" away from hook slide a snap and swivel over the knot,with a bead behind it,then attach the 3' of 80 to your 50 shock with a double nail or uni to uni.. You save a bit on swivels,but I had a problem with the overhand knot.. Although,I pulled the h*ll out of it and could not break the 80.. He's been using those cheaper slide snaps for years,which is a great idea for saving,but this rig was kind of impressive in being fast and compact.. I could tie a few nail knots,hooks on hand and be back in business within seconds after getting bit off by a shark.. Still have that overhand knot in my mind,but he's been doing that for quite some time...


----------



## DaBig2na (Aug 7, 2011)

Yep I know what you mean Drumdum I... I use that rig as well, Especially on the beach. I went through about ten of them on Melissa's rod, on the Friday Garbo got in..lots of sharks that day and night..I also went through a few, the week prior at the point.

I didn't like the way the overhand knot looked either. So I went with a "figure eight" (this year) which is even stronger than the overhand. Looks better and sreamlines it a bit.. He (Redheaded one) said, there isn't a Drum in the world that will break the overhand mentioned knot using 80#..I'm inclined to agree...

The sharks that did bite through below the knot allowed me to slavage the rest of the rig, sinker included. She caught and reeled in seven or eight to the pier the ones that didn't bite through, I broke em off. 
I'm always watching and learning! Always looking to improve!! Watch you and Tater too...along with Arch, Pat, Nick, TommyH, JohnE , list goes on..I just haven't gotten that "Wilson Walk" down and probably won't......Its Unique to you two only!.........
I Tried that PatB, "hop step" cast, and that didn't work out too good! .. I'm glad I did it where no one was watching..LMAO


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

DaBig2na said:


> Yep I know what you mean Drumdum I... I use that rig as well, Especially on the beach. I went through about ten of them on Melissa's rod, on the Friday Garbo got in..lots of sharks that day and night..I also went through a few, the week prior at the point.
> 
> I didn't like the way the overhand knot looked either. So I went with a *"figure eight"* (this year) which is even stronger than the overhand. Looks better and sreamlines it a bit.. He (Redheaded one) said, there isn't a Drum in the world that will break the overhand mentioned knot using 80#..I'm inclined to agree...
> 
> ...


Now that's an idea worth testing....+1 there buddy...


----------



## BritBri (Dec 1, 2015)

AbuMike said:


> A loop and crimp at the hook.


Mike, i still dont understand.
What do you actually clip the loop / hook too ?


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

BritBri said:


> Mike, i still dont understand.
> What do you actually clip the loop / hook too ?


An imp clip. No I'm not going to post a link or video. Get lynched around this crowd.


----------



## BritBri (Dec 1, 2015)

Lol
I guess you would.
Im sure il come across it one day 
Thanks anyway


----------



## don brinson (Apr 8, 2011)

Drumdum, is the knot you were talking about the one at the top of the 80. 3 overhand knots than a nail knot on the 80 with the 50 that slides to the overhand knot. I fished it all week I was there and never had a problem with it. It took abut to trust it at first, then thought if Russell was fishing it, it must work.


----------



## 1BadF350 (Jul 19, 2006)

AbuMike said:


> An imp clip. No I'm not going to post a link or video. Get lynched around this crowd.


Just one, Mike


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

1BadF350 said:


>


I love it ......


----------



## DaBig2na (Aug 7, 2011)

Chow says X2


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

DaBig2na said:


> Yep I know what you mean Drumdum I... I use that rig as well, Especially on the beach. I went through about ten of them on Melissa's rod, on the Friday Garbo got in..lots of sharks that day and night..I also went through a few, the week prior at the point.
> 
> I didn't like the way the overhand knot looked either. So I went with a "figure eight" (this year) which is even stronger than the overhand. Looks better and sreamlines it a bit.. He (Redheaded one) said, there isn't a Drum in the world that will break the overhand mentioned knot using 80#..I'm inclined to agree...
> 
> ...


 I was there to witness Pat's initiation to the "hopstep" cast.. It was a guy named Jay that walked out on Avon and was outcasting Pat and myself with 10oz.. I guess it got into Pat's head because he has duplicated the cast the guy was using and still uses it to this day... It's all about timing.. As far as a "Wilson walk".. That I guess is hereditary... 

Kinda like the idea of figure 8 knot,would trust it more than an overhand even though "the redheaded fella" has been doing this for years... Don,I don't remember all the knots you were talking??


----------



## dirtyhandslopez (Nov 17, 2006)

Has the cannonball rig gone out of fashion nowadays? It doesn't helicopter, weight doesn't ride up, got a 199# leader to grab ahold of.


----------



## IPNURWATER (Aug 20, 2013)

Bottom circle hook snell tie looks jacked up in the picture. Not going back thru eye..but get your point...wounder if it makes a big difference.......


----------



## DaBig2na (Aug 7, 2011)

IPNURWATER said:


> Bottom circle hook snell tie looks jacked up in the picture. Not going back thru eye..but get your point...wounder if it makes a big difference.......


"I pee water" You are correct on the observation .. Another friend of mine has been the same exact hooks this season. Suggested/recommended I not use the eye. He said I'd miss more hook ups by using the eye. Honestly, I can't the difference I've tried both ways...Hookups are not limited to just Drum of course. Skates, Rays, Garbos are also hooked up..


----------



## BigWillJ (Jan 21, 2001)

AbuMike said:


> An imp clip. No I'm not going to post a link or video. Get lynched around this crowd.


It's a blue moon, so here's one link to using a link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DvLzzOlluo

I haven't used it, but if I ever tried it, there might be some reservations about the fast link being torqued enough to jam the release, or so I've read.


----------



## don brinson (Apr 8, 2011)

The first day at the beach he showed me his way of making his drum rig. He took a piece of 80 lb and snelled his hook. Put on the sinker slide and bead, then at the top of the 80 he did 3 simple overhand knots together. Then he took the 50 and tied a nail knot on the 80 and slid it up to the overhand knot. Held up well.


----------



## BritBri (Dec 1, 2015)

BigWillJ said:


> It's a blue moon, so here's one link to using a link:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DvLzzOlluo
> 
> ...


----------



## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

Drumdum said:


> I was there to witness Pat's initiation to the "hopstep" cast.. It was a guy named Jay that walked out on Avon and was outcasting Pat and myself with 10oz.. I guess it got into Pat's head because he has duplicated the cast the guy was using and still uses it to this day... It's all about timing.. As far as a "Wilson walk".. That I guess is hereditary...
> 
> Kinda like the idea of figure 8 knot,would trust it more than an overhand even though "the redheaded fella" has been doing this for years... Don,I don't remember all the knots you were talking??


The Hopper was out casting everyone, even Larry Haack He actually had both feet off the ground on the piers, a little more normal on the beach. Red Head and I named him the Hopper, cause he went airborne on the T...

Last I heard he was married and living in Charlotte. Good thing he retired long ago.

The Hopper fished a lot with a fella named K Jackson from Buxton, Have not seen K around, K thought he owned the Point.

Jay fished Fenwick Surf Sticks, same rod I was using this morning at 55. Twenty five years later.

Last time I checked it is Cape Point, not K Point.

Went to 55 this morning and soaked a few baits water was relatively warm, Hundreds of Pelicans headed North into the Hook, I would have followed them if I could, no doubt where they ended up in the Fatback is where the Drum are this morning.


----------



## DaBig2na (Aug 7, 2011)

Garbo, the rig we are currently discussing the one that redhead uses. I also use.. I believe you mentioned the originator of it somewhere. 

I inadvertently called it by another person's name several threads ago. Reason being that that particular name was on my mind. The funny thing is I know two folks named Tommy/Tom Harris. I accidently called it that..


----------



## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

DaBig2na said:


> Garbo, the rig we are currently discussing the one that redhead uses. I also use.. I believe you mentioned the originator of it somewhere.
> 
> I inadvertently called it by another person's name several threads ago. Reason being that that particular name was on my mind. The funny thing is I know two folks named Tommy/Tom Harris. I accidently called it that..


Mike Hayes is the inventor.

Mike Hayes was the MAN back in the Day.

Caught the first Drum off Avon Pier in 1963.

Mike is still around fishing for Drum.


----------



## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

:fishing:


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Garboman said:


> Mike Hayes is the inventor.
> 
> Mike Hayes was the MAN back in the Day.
> 
> ...


 Actually,Mike IS the man.. Of course you also have to equate Vic G as well as George W into that.. ALL were Avon Pier folks.. haha.........


----------



## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

I am sorry for my weird post yesterday. My keyboard was not working.

Now to what I was going to write. I love posts like this. SO MUCH GREAT INFORMATION!!!!

One question was asked and did not get answers that I saw and IMO is was a good question: Did the cannonball rig fall out of favor? This is a favorite of mine to get distance but I have not had the best success with it. Again this may be me fishing the wrong spot or wrong time but never produced for me.


----------



## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

When I think of drum rigs these are close approximations to what I use when throwing a heaver or pier fishing. (a little more terminal tackle than I use in some cases but the idea is correct) I AM NOT AN EXPERT! Anything I post that is crap let me know for two reasons: one I will stop using it, also I will stop telling others about it 

Cannonball Rig









"Basic Drum Rig" (we call it a helicopter rig)








This is an approximate rig of the new one I will be trying next trip out.









An example of the sliders that break and cause havoc on the beach/piers









Tied vs Crimped








vs


----------



## DaBig2na (Aug 7, 2011)

Great Illustrations Spider... 
The very first one is a variation of the (Mike Hayes ) aka Cannonball Rig we have most recently been discussing. Hook preference and leader preference is up the to maker. I like 80# leader and a 9/0 or 10/0 J-Hook, OR a 10/0 circle. Great on the beach to grab that heavier leader and drag the fish out of the surf. 

I'm not too sure of that Carolina rig with the red line. DEFINATELY not in the surf for me!


----------



## 1BadF350 (Jul 19, 2006)

Yikes that rig with the 8oz egg sinker is scary. I dont believe i would ever use that. Maybe if the egg was on shock line, and the bite leader was 3" max, but definitely not on main line.


----------



## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

I was thinking outgoing tide might act like a live line rig that stays closer to the bottom. I am not sure how it will cast??? I will play with it after I am setup dead sticking with the kids.


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

spydermn said:


> I am sorry for my weird post yesterday. My keyboard was not working.
> 
> Now to what I was going to write. I love posts like this. SO MUCH GREAT INFORMATION!!!!
> 
> One question was asked and did not get answers that I saw and IMO is was a good question: Did the cannonball rig fall out of favor? This is a favorite of mine to get distance but I have not had the best success with it. Again this may be me fishing the wrong spot or wrong time but never produced for me.


 I used the cannonball rig for at least 3 yrs.. It worked great,but bitoffs are endit alls,all you get back is a swivel.. Also,I have less helicoptering with the "new improved version",same as what I said earlier.. Cannonball for some reason will at times helicopter,if it does,it is MUCH WORSE than the rig I'm currently using..


----------



## dawgfsh (Mar 1, 2005)

We had lots of 5-6' blacktips at Calo the last couple of years. A 5/0 j and 5" of 50# mono bite leader saved a lot of tackle and landed Drum with all hooked in the corner of the mouth.


----------



## BritBri (Dec 1, 2015)

On the cannonball rig, does anybody ever clip the bait up to stop it " helicoptering" ?


----------



## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

Brit:
I don't. I just make sure it is stable when I cast it. Now I usually use an OTG cast when on the beach.


----------



## BritBri (Dec 1, 2015)

spydermn said:


> Brit:
> I don't. I just make sure it is stable when I cast it. Now I usually use an OTG cast when on the beach.


Ok but surely if you clipped it up it would solve the problem completely.
OTG is probably the most user friendly of the powercasts and its much easier and quicker to do than the others.
The Brighton cast is a good one too tho not quite as much power but a great cast if space is tight.


----------



## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

I guess you would call mine a hybrid of Brighton & OTG. I just look as clips to be one more thing to break or get broken off. With cannonballs I have almost no issues with helicoptering lead. Now the rare occasion that I try to really push a cast HARD or pendulum cast it (before I get flamed it is a lonely beach for me to try that one) I have had heli issues but nothing like a conventional drum rig (above see the bait'n'8 or hatteras rig)


----------



## BritBri (Dec 1, 2015)

Yeah, ive looked all the pics and all the variations intrigue me as they are all relatively new to me and i get this engineers view of things and just try to work things out lol.

Why is there so many variations on hook leader length ?
Is it just personal prefference or is there a specific reason for it ?


----------



## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

Some say you get more hookups with a longer leader, some say you get less distance with a longer leader (my exp), you get more drag from the helicopter with a longer leader.....to me it boils down to how are you fishing? If you are casting for distance or fishing the Point you need to fish compact and what others are fishing if the Congo line is going. If you are fishing in close and the fish are being picky I have had better luck with longer bite leaders. Also remember, fishermen are always looking for that little edge they "think" they are getting. Proof is in the thousands of lure types in the stores and only a handful work. What works for you in your situation is what matters.


----------



## poppop1 (Feb 16, 2004)

Great illustrations spydermn, I make all my leaders, usually use a short leader fish finder rig, and I like kahle hooks, and a Carolina rig with live finger mullet for flounder. I wanted to try something different without so much hardware, so picture your Carolina rig with the red mono, I put the egg sinker on the red mono, usually 60# to 100# mono, 2' long or so with a 5/0 or bigger kahle hook, and up to a 4 oz. egg sinker, this is attached to the running line with a coastlock swivel, no need for a sinker slide, and it acts somewhat like a fish finder rig as the fish can pull the bait through the egg sinker. I don't get to fish that much, I've caught some blues and some rays on this rig, the ocean temp was 83 degrees, no red drum, not sure if this rig would spook red drum or not, opinions certainly welcome.


----------



## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

Kenny:
is this a not to scale, semi-accurate depiction of the cannonball like rig you were describing?


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Cannonball rig....


----------



## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

Mike: Good looking rig/snell. Mine never look or stay that nice. I need to work on them...


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

spydermn said:


> Kenny:
> is this a not to scale, semi-accurate depiction of the cannonball like rig you were describing?


 Well,that is kinda sorta right.. Mine is with a normal rig with hook and swivel about 1 and a half inches of 80 between hook and swivel.. Then a piece of 80 about 2' long,that attaches to the swivel and hook with bead slid on first,then snap with swivel attachted,no bead in front it will stop at hook swivel.. I have found swivel to lay around knot and wind up with less wear..The plastic bead with it's square edge will put more wear on the area in front of the knot where beakoffs usually occur,with the weight of the 8oz sinker hammering on it with every cast.. The bead set up in back of terminal tackle will,when bit will slide to nail knots or uni knots connecting the 80 to the 50,avoiding the sinker from sliding the length of the the shock line.. This only allows the sinker to travel 2' when there is a bite,similar to a cannonball.. 

The "redheaded fella" uses almost exactly the same,only he substitutes an overhand knot for the swivel,and snells his hook directly to the 2' piece of 80.. I have seen him attach with a swivel at the top of the 80,illminating the bead as well.. He can actually tie his stuff on quicker because there is no double nail or uni attaching 80 to 50.. Very compact.. He fishes the point and other beach spots regularly and has excellent success with both his casting and catching using this rig.. I'm thinking of going to this next season because it is so much more compact..

Both of us use a bimini to nail uni to attach the 50 to the running line. I showed him that knot yrs ago and it's all I've seen him use since.. Although there are plenty of other knots that work fine,like spider to no name.. You do have to watch your bead hole size because there are time the no name is so small it can travel over the knot and hang.. This is not a good thing and will create enemies on the planks or on the beach when you have a fish on and it wraps up everyone....

As far as cannonball,it seems to actually helicopter more times that the two rigs above.. Have seen this in my cast and other folks using this rig.. Also the angle of the sinker and slide directly hammering down on a snelled hook causes the line to bend and eventually weaken.. It does so much quicker than the two rigs above..

I have found also that if your reel is "holding back" a bit it can also cause helicoptering.. Strange but true..

With either of these rigs including the cannonball they have that piece of 80 at the end,which is MUCH safer for casting in a crowd,but you DO have to check it even with the extra strength.. It also has the advantage of a "fish handle" that works great when you are getting a fish on the beach.. Simply take a wrap and pull your fish on in from there..

As far as sharks,I think my rig shines better than both the cannonball and the "redheaded fellas".. That is,if it is a garbo or sandtiger.. Their teeth are so gnarly that about 1 out of 3 will bite you off good enough to get your sinker back.. If it is a sandbar or blacktip,most times you come back with nothing unless you put it on the beach or net it and bring it onto the planks.. I ain't got time for that crap... 

Ain't the best at writing or explaining,a little better face to face,but hope you can make some sense outta that..


----------



## BritBri (Dec 1, 2015)

Why stop the sinker so close to the hook ?

Is this just to keep the helicoptering under control a little ?


----------



## Guest (Dec 17, 2016)

I've been wondering that too. There are times when I fish heavy current and tide I'll get helicopter twists from a big piece of bait twisting on the bottom in current.


----------



## CJS (Oct 2, 2006)

I usually fish a cannonball style rig. I like them, but if the wind is in your face or you are throwing a clunky bait like a bunker head or big cob head it can helicopter badly.

Kenny is right on the cannonbal helicoptering if your reel is holding back. I tend to run my reels a little slower than most guys, I can't hold casts together with really fast reels. If I don't hit the cast right, the cannonball will cost me distance. But if I have a pretty cob head and hit the cast right so the bait and sinker stay together it will fly better than a fishfinder for me.


----------



## dawgfsh (Mar 1, 2005)

Oister

The further the bait rides from the sinker the more likely it is to separate while in the air.


----------



## BritBri (Dec 1, 2015)

So whats the verdict guys ....which is the best Drum rig ?


----------



## DaBig2na (Aug 7, 2011)

Try em all out when you go Drum Fishin Brit... Let us know which you like best. 
That will be your Winner...


----------



## BritBri (Dec 1, 2015)

Hi 2na
Very diplomatic lol
Il work my way through them for sure but always looking for some hints off the more experienced anglers on here.
Can't blame a guy for that can you ?
I know its all down to hard work and time put in and i appreciate all the hints and tips ive picked up on this thread, they will not be forgotten and i thank each and every one of you.
I guess i will just have to get to the coast more often....now is that a bummer or what lol


----------



## DaBig2na (Aug 7, 2011)

You have a general idea.. Now you just have to apply it, and see what you like and what works for you.
To say there is a clear cut winner of what EVERONE has cotrubuted to this thread, would not be fair.


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

BritBri said:


> So whats the verdict guys ....which is the best Drum rig ?


As was said...the winner is the one you build/buy and use to catch fish......I wish we had the internet when I was learning...


----------



## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

Again this is a great thread! The winner is what you can tie well and quickly and lands fish. The "best" rig not tied correctly will if you're lucky catch you nothing and if you are unlucky loose you a fish on the line. I like a cannonball because it is quick and easy to tie. Others like pre-made rigs. It also depends on what and where you are fishing. For me, in the wash a simple double drop rig out fishes all others, for over the bar fishing a short fish finder or cannonball has been better. Find what you can tie easy, in a blow, in the dark, with cold fingers and that is the one I would use


----------



## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

AbuMike said:


> I wish we had the internet when I was learning...


I am happy as a fat kid in a cake factory I do


----------



## BritBri (Dec 1, 2015)

I've used a few vatiations of the fishfinder and have got my favorite, its one that i can clip up if i need to go a bit farther out.
For more distance still, i use a UK style pulley rig with a smaller neater bait which will put me where i want to be.
In the suds as a general all round rig have 2 that i like , a 2 hook dropper rig and again a UK style hi lo with one hook on a longish leader on the bottom and the other a short leader.
Hook sizes vary all the time but back to the drum rig, i'l keep on playing till i find the magic formula ....thats if there is one of course.
Its been a very informative thread for me, lets hope for many more.
Thanks guys.


----------



## Jwalker (Jan 18, 2014)

Where is the best place to get mcmahon snaps and what size should I be looking for?


----------



## DaBig2na (Aug 7, 2011)

Get them from Abu Mike when he makes an order .. Best quality for the best price


----------



## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

Jwalker said:


> Where is the best place to get mcmahon snaps and what size should I be looking for?



Red Drum tackle sells them. Ask Dan.


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

surffshr said:


> Red Drum tackle sells them. Ask Dan.


 Last word was they are out.......


----------



## Guest (Dec 27, 2016)

I've been running the shorter 2-3" leaders the last 4 or 5 trips out. No helicopter, no tangles, and it's almost like the bait tucks in behind the sinker while in flight. Like it follows it and gets in it's draft or something. Seems like it's throwing farther and easier. I fish at night so splash down can't be an accurate guess. I get less fluff and confidence is key. I throw big pieces of bait so it's also eliminated the on river bottom twisting. Don't bother the giant blue cats in the James at all.


----------



## drumrun (Dec 5, 2007)

Drumdum said:


> Last word was they are out.......


Been out since mid summer, word is someone from Trent bought them out...


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

drumrun said:


> Been out since mid summer, word is someone from Trent bought them out...


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

drumrun said:


> Been out since mid summer, word is someone from Trent bought them out...


Bought who out????


----------



## FishinMortician (Jun 19, 2007)

I agree that the Figure 8 knot is a better choice than an Overhand. The Overhand can overtighten and cut itself free. Using a heavy material definitely helps though as the drag cannot pull hard enough to cause it to fail. Slipping something through an Overhand also prevents it from over tightening. It is an acceptable knot, just you have to keep some things in mind.

Making your own rigs is definitely best, however not everyone has the skills to do it correctly. For them buying rigs can make sense. Far better to land that monster than learn a hard lesson about knots. LOL


----------

