# give-aways



## supercast (May 17, 2006)

i noticed most of you had a problem with my extra caught give-aways ,please read the hand book , it says 2 fish per person legal sizes there is nothing about not giving an extra fish to a licensed fisherman/woman therefore, how the legal principles were violated , i have been on many f/trips and both the captains and passengers gave extra fish caught to others to make up their creel 
Before we start to call people names kindly read and comprehend the state fishing guide handbook
we learn from each other by having dialogues not being rude and nasty 
thanks


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

supercast, I have a hard time with the give-away interpretation myself (sometimes). When there are 3 people fishing and 1 guy gets 5 fish I think it would not be a bad thing to share sometimes. 

However I was involved in a thread earlier this year either on this site or another and we had a DNR officer active in the thread and he explained that the interpretation of the regulations prohibit this behavior. If I can find it I will post it. I believe he might have been a MD DNR guy but I am not sure


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## Dae (Jun 25, 2002)

I don't know about anyone else, but I thought the law in MD was a possession limit, not a you must catch to possess.

You know like if 3 guys are fishing and it's a 2 fish per person limit. That tells me, as long as each person doesn't keep more then 2, then it should be fine reguardless of who reeled them in. 

What's really the difference if one guy hands over the rod to the next guy if the 1st guy hooked the fish? Why would that make it legal??

BTW, I'm a C&R fisherman so the only time I bring fish home is if I have someone to take them off my hands. Now is that illegal because I'm giving them away when I get home?


- Dae


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## shaggy (Jun 18, 2003)

Seems to me this is similar to culling, except in this situation, catch three or more fish, keep biggest two and instead of releasing, give away others.

Just my thought.

Have Jeep will travel


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

Dae, I know where you are coming from and part of me agrees with you. Especially if the person doing it is a responsible angler. 

I believe Shag is correct in that DNR interprets this as culling.

Again, maybe a DNR person can come on to clear this up. Its best to be safe than sorry


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## CJS (Oct 2, 2006)

*Giveaways*

The rule is loosely interpretted by anglers. If an officer had seen you do it he was within his right to give you a ticket. At some point in the fishing trip you were in possesion of three fish. It might have been when you were handing it to another fisherman walking it down the pier, but you were over your limit at some point.
I am sure at some point that all of us bend the rules. Not to stir up a hornet's nest, but how can recreational fishermen judge commercial fishermen who bend the rules when we don't follow them ourselves. I do understand that the two are different, but breaking the rules is breaking the rules.
This is not an attack. Just a thought.


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## Gnatman (Sep 15, 2005)

*The way the DNR interprets it...*

is that giving a fish away to a fisherman is NO DIFFERENT than if you were to take it home and give it away to a neighbor. No matter who you give it to, it is STILL a fish caught (and kept) by you - and you chose to give it away.


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*You could sell it*

to the other person....... just like manufacturing planets do with their pollution.


Breaking the law or not - Fish in the moring catch 2 rock, got your limit go home and now your wife/gf/buddy want to go out in the afternoon since you did so well in the morning.

Are you breaking/bend/or no law will be broken if you take home 2 in the afternoon???


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## Gnatman (Sep 15, 2005)

*Yes*



Orest said:


> to the other person.......
> 
> Breaking the law or not - Fish in the moring catch 2 rock, got your limit go home and now your wife/gf/buddy want to go out in the afternoon since you did so well in the morning.
> 
> Are you breaking/bend/or no law will be broken if you take home 2 in the afternoon???


It says 2 PER DAY, not 2 per TRIP.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*intent is what matters*

and yes we all like to 'interpret' to our liking.

The intent is that I can go fishing and in any one 24 hour period I am allowed to keep 2 fish that I caught. 

Can't speak to other state laws, but transferring fish to other people sidesteps the fact that I have taken more than 2 fish out of the water. 

This may be an extreme example but suppose I am catching fish on a pier with 50 other people present who are not catching. I simply can't go handing off the fish to other people until all 50 people have a 2 bag limit. Technically if I never kept a fish in my cooler until first giving away 100 fish, I would never be over the '2 possession' limit

That being said I am well aware that a captain and mate often let the party "have" the rights to their allotment. Can't speak to the legality of this so I won't.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*Virginia Law*

G. It shall be unlawful for any person fishing recreationally to transfer any striped bass to another person, while on the water or while fishing from a pier or shore.


THis doesn't prevent you from going home and giving the fish to your friend/neighbor- but you can not go back to fishing after that with out clearly breaking the law, even though it's highly unprobable that you will get caught.


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## Dae (Jun 25, 2002)

CJS said:


> The rule is loosely interpretted by anglers. If an officer had seen you do it he was within his right to give you a ticket. At some point in the fishing trip you were in possesion of three fish. It might have been when you were handing it to another fisherman walking it down the pier, but you were over your limit at some point.


That's like saying every fish I touch, counts toward my daily possession limit; even if I throw them all back in the water like I normally do. I'd hate to get a ticket for possession even though I wasn't taking any home.

The way I and probably many other see it is that if it doesn't go into the cooler, it's not possession. 

I thought culling was if you throw back a fish already in possession because you want a different fish. I can see it as culling if you catch a 3rd fish and give away one that was already in ones cooler, but if you just give it to the fisherman next to you, is it culling since you're not replacing a fish already in possession?

I've got more questions.. Lets say the limit is 2 fish/day and you catch 3. You give away the 3rd to a guy next to you and he accepts even though he already has 2 fish. With that, who's over their daily limit? Is it the person who caught the fish or the person taking that 3rd fish home? Who gets the ticket?

- Dae


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*Is it still culling*

if you catch 2 fish and since the nice guy next to you did not catch a fish, you are both packing up and heading up to your cars and you decide to give him one? The smaller one of the 2.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Dae said:


> That's like saying every fish I touch, counts toward my daily possession limit; even if I throw them all back in the water like I normally do. I'd hate to get a ticket for possession even though I wasn't taking any home.
> 
> The way I and probably many other see it is that if it doesn't go into the cooler, it's not possession.
> 
> ...



Your both in the wrong, at least by Virginia Law. Any fish caught over the limit must be returned immediately to the water- you broke the law by not returning the fish to the water, he broke it when accepting the fish.


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## Dae (Jun 25, 2002)

Surf Cat said:


> G. It shall be unlawful for any person fishing recreationally to transfer any striped bass to another person, while on the water or while fishing from a pier or shore.


That's clear cut. It in Va it's illegal to give away fish. Now the question is, what's MD law?


- Dae


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Orest said:


> if you catch 2 fish and since the nice guy next to you did not catch a fish, you are both packing up and heading up to your cars and you decide to give him one? The smaller one of the 2.



depends, VA law says

G. It shall be unlawful for any person fishing recreationally to transfer any striped bass to another person, while on the water or while fishing from a pier or shore.

It has nothing to do with creel limit- if the law sees the transfer take place while you are still on the beach/pier etc. they may issue a ticket and say it took place "while fishing"

And this for Supercast- I doubt that the small handbook you have lists the regs in detail- so saying a reg ain't in the handbook isn't going to cut it.

Look guys the regs are a guideline to go by- it boils down to doing right by the fishery and not looking for ways to get "around" the rules


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Dae said:


> That's clear cut. It in Va it's illegal to give away fish. Now the question is, what's MD law?
> 
> 
> - Dae


yea, I know this is the Maryland/Delaware board

If someone has the info for that area how bout posting it up


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## KT_UMCP (Oct 11, 2005)

2 is plenty enough for me for one day of striper catching. My freezer wont hold that much fish plus i like to eat it fresh and not stored away in the freezer for months. I rather go out the next day and catch me 2 more fresh stripers to eat.


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## clamsnout (Jul 1, 2006)

*Trying to get the rules straight*

I'm trying to get these creel rules straight. From the last few posts it seems that the DNR rule basically is:

You are allowed to kill that number of legal sized fish in one day (midnight to midnight).

So if the limit is 2 then I can kill 2 legal sized fish per day. Possession is not a factor?

So if you answer Yes to either question below then you are busted:

1) "Did I kill more than 2 legal size fish today?" 

2) "Did I kill an illegal sized fish today?"

As far as giveaways it would then seem legal to give away one of the my 2 legal kills to anyone as long as I didn't kill any more than those 2 in the same day.

But Possession does become a factor as well because you could be technically legal and still appear illegal and get busted.

Case 1: the guy I gave one of my legal kills to (and stopped killing) should also be legally allowed to kill his 2 personal ones - although it would appear illegal if he had the three in his possession. 

Case 2: the camping fisherman who kills 2 per day and has 4 at the end of the 2 days. He would be technically legal but appear illegal.

Case 3: SurfCat example of getting caught giving away a legal fish while fishing.

Guess the possession factor is related to provability.

One last technicality, what happens if a guthooked undersized fish dies or a guthooked legal size after the limit of two kills dies? Isn't this technically illegal? (start a C&R rant?).

Correct?


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## mdram (Jul 18, 2005)

maryland laws are not stated clearly int he fishing manual, but if you read Code of Maryland Regulations (COMAR), it is defined a little better


heres an example
08.02.15.10 08.02.15.10. 10 Recreational and Charter Boat Summer and Fall Fishery for Maryland Tributaries of the Potomac River.A. Season. The recreational and charter boat summer and fall season in the:. 1) Areas described in Regulation .08D(3) of this regulation is May 16 through May 31; and. 2) Maryland tributaries of the Potomac River downstream of Woodrow Wilson Bridge (I-95) is June 1 through December 31.B. Catch Limit. *A person may not catch or possess more than two striped bass per day.*


08.02.15.12 08.02.15.12. 12 General Restrictions.. A. A person may not use a gaff or similar device to remove striped bass from the water. A person who catches striped bass shall remove it from the water only by hand or dip net.B. Possession of Striped Bass.. *1) For purposes of this section, "cull" means that after a person has a striped bass in possession, the person discards or exchanges that striped bass to possess another striped bass.*2) During a recreational striped bass season:.

http://www.dsd.state.md.us/comar/subtitle_chapters/08_Chapters.htm


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## shaggy (Jun 18, 2003)

Response from DNR email I sent:


"_Hello Bob:

My understanding of the possession limits is if you have caught your limit of striped bass and you are reeling in another striped bass you must release the fish immediately because you are over the limit allowed. Now if you give away one of your fish in possession to another licensed fisherman you would be allowed to keep that fish. IT IS A POSSESSION LAW. Aboard a charter vessel the number of people determine the number of fish that is allowed in possession or in a cooler. I hope t his will answer your question.

Frances R. McFaden_"

So, seems you can catch and give away fish once you reach your limit.

Have Jeep will travel


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*Delaware rule*

3.0 Unless otherwise authorized, it shall be unlawful for any recreational fisherman to take and reduce to possession more than two (2) striped bass per day (a day being 24 hours) from the tidal waters of this State. Any striped bass taken from the tidal waters of this State that is not immediately returned, without unnecessary injury, to the same waters from which it was taken, is deemed taken and reduced to possession for purposes of this subsection

found this info on Delaware DNR site- seems pretty clear- taking and keeping more than 2 fish per day out of the water is deemed "possession" whether you give the fish away or not- it is the angler that took the fish initially who is deemed to have possessed the fish- 

in plain English each angler is responsible for not removing more than 2 fish per day from the water- period.


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## Huntsman (Mar 6, 2003)

*What the Hizzle!!!!*

Dude do you work for PETA!

Let's see... if I drive down a dirt road and drive over a hill of ants.. how many did I KILL for the day? 

If I cleanse my hands w/ bacterial hand wash.. how many bacteria did I KILL today1

If I fished w/ fresh clamsnout.. how many clams will I get for killing em.. 





> You are allowed to kill that number of legal sized fish in one day (midnight to midnight).
> 
> So if the limit is 2 then I can kill 2 legal sized fish per day. Possession is not a factor?
> 
> ...


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

shaggy said:


> Response from DNR email I sent:
> 
> 
> "_Hello Bob:
> ...



Shaggy, not sure he got the question right. Charter boats are given some leeway when the fish are kept in a common holding area- otherwise each person would be required to tag his fish in order to identify who caught what and how many- regs in that situation allow for number of fishermen X 2 (assuming stripers) to determine number of total fish aboard boat allowed

This does appear to give boaters a little more leeway on the issue


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## clamsnout (Jul 1, 2006)

*Hell No*



Huntsman said:


> Dude do you work for PETA!
> 
> Hell No, was just trying to boil it down to the simplest of rules. I guess the politically correct term would be 'removed from the water for possession' (RFTWFP). What I was asking really is that I can catch 3 fish as long as I only RFTWFP 2 and I immediately release the third. But if i RFTWFP 3 (kill is shorter) and give the third away then I am busted.
> 
> ...


Just kiddin.


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## BubbaBlue (May 11, 2004)

mdram said:


> maryland laws *A person may not catch or possess more than two striped bass per day.*


So, after you catch a total of two dinks, time to go home. 
I know, that's not what's meant.




shaggy said:


> Response from DNR email I sent:
> 
> 
> "_Hello Bob:
> ...


Thanks Bob. 

A brief moment of sanity on this thread.

*Its the intent of the law that is important.* No, don't give everybody on the pier a fish, and yeah, its ok to give a croaker to the hungry dad next to you if you are at your limit. Or... if I'm out on a boat with a bud and one of us is having a good day and the other isn't, we are both going home with two stripers. 

Back to my hole. 
.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*bubba blue*



shaggy said:


> Response from DNR email I sent:
> 
> 
> "_Hello Bob:
> ...


Reread the Delaware definition of possession in my earlier post- it is defined as removing the fish from water- has nothing to do with what is done once you take the fish into possession. 2 in the cooler and one pulled out of the water makes 3 in possession at least at that moment in time

I know this is overkill on the subject but in my mind that e-mail did little to clear things up -


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## fingersandclaws (Oct 17, 2005)

I think people are getting too anal about this. The law is the law, yes. But the question is not about giving it away to strangers. If your worried about being busted (whether your right of wrong), then don't sweat it and don't give your fish away. 

The REAL question is what to do for your buddy who hasn't caught anything but snags all day. Do you give him sympathy fish? Of course you do, or else you wouldn't be a good friend. If I have 2 in my cooler (rare), and I'm still fishing (C&R) with my buddy, and you know he loves bass, you hook him up, either with the next one you catch or one of the two in the cooler if you don't catch another one. It's that simple. If your one of those guys who doesn't give his catch to his buddy, then I truly doubt you have any buddies at all. Seriously, are you really gonna let your fishing buddy go home empty handed when you caught your limit?


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## Dae (Jun 25, 2002)

shaggy said:


> Response from DNR email I sent:
> 
> 
> "_Hello Bob:
> ...


 It seems the intent of the law in MD is how many a fisherman takes home, which makes perfect sense to me. 

That one line in the code where it says "catch or possess 2" is a little crazy and I don't feel the actual wording is it's intent. Reason I say that is because if you're out Striper fishing and catch 2 dinks, then you have to stop even though you have to throw them back in. Can you imagine C&R fishing to have the DNR come and writes you a ticket for catching over your 2 Striper catch limit?

Here's another question ... It's not about catch limits. Let's say you're fishing for white perch in an area closed to striper fishing and there's a 10 year old kid there doing the same. The catch is the kid catches a 30 inch striper on his hook and bobber. The kids so excited because it's the biggest fish he ever caught, he runs, taking the fish to his parents for the family to take home. 

Now do you tell the kid to throw it back and if he doesn't you'll call the DNR, do you educate the kid on the law, but let this slide since it's made this kids day, or do you just keep your mouth shut and let the kid have his bragging rights to his family and friends?

I know some of you may feel the answer is clear cut, but it's another story when you see a kid this excited that was fishing by himself in the freezing cold.

- Dae


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*I know it's anal*

but it would appear a necessary argument when one fella insists he can catch as many as he wants as long as he Gives-away the extras.

That is just plain wrong and shows a lack of understanding (perhaps caring) for the rules as well as disregard for the fisheries.

Off my Soap Box.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Dae said:


> It seems the intent of the law in MD is how many a fisherman takes home, which makes perfect sense to me.
> 
> That one line in the code where it says "catch or possess 2" is a little crazy and I don't feel the actual wording is it's intent. Reason I say that is because if you're out Striper fishing and catch 2 dinks, then you have to stop even though you have to throw them back in. Can you imagine C&R fishing to have the DNR come and writes you a ticket for catching over your 2 Striper catch limit?
> 
> ...


Agree that Maryland needs to clear up the language on the "catch or possess"- they may have it defined elsewhere in the code but I got tired of looking at it.

I'll leave the moral dilemma of the kid to others.


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## clamsnout (Jul 1, 2006)

*True PETA like story*

Since there are kids potentially reading this site I probbaly shouldn't have used the 'K' word in my earlier post. Sounds like I choked them with my bare hands, thoughI do find that fish are easier to eat when they have spent some sleepy time in the big white cooler of ice.

Anyway this is a true story. A friend was fishing at 3R's in the spring. I had lucked into a 41 inch striper at AI in May and he was determined to best me. Since he was alone he didn't bring his cooler from the parking area (no ORV pass). He probably wasn't really expecting to catch anything but he did hook a 40.987 inch striper.

While he was taking a picture some lady ran up to him screaming about how she was 'Sick and tired of these fisherman mistreating the fish.' He listened for a while and then took out his knife and asked her if she wanted to finish it.

She called the DNR on the spot on her cell phone and said to come down as a fisherman was abusing a fish. He could hear the confused DNR person asking things like:

Is he beating it?

Is he mounting it?

He started laughing and left before the phone call ended. Guess he really should have brought the cooler with him.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*Is he mounting it?*

now That's funny!!


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## C.Salp (May 30, 2002)

If one carefully reads the DNR response to Shaggy's thread, a charter vessel, as a discrete/contained environment, is pretty much the only scenario where the "extra" fish can be given to another angler.

"...you must release the [extra] fish immediately because you are over the limit allowed."

The collective creel/fish box on a charter vessel, accounted for in proportion to the number of people on the vessel, is not analogous to extra fish transferred to another [or "into the other angler's cooler"] on shore, at home, etc., to "give" to that other person. 

I think Gnatman's 2:30 PM post is on the money, if the bag limits are to mean anything.

I agree with the poster that raised the point about likening "touching" a fish in the context of a good-faith release, to possession, as being absurd. I'd be astonished to learn of a ticket ever being issued in a good-faith release situation, provided C & R fishing was allowed in that area. But, I think the scenario raised here is harvesting an additional fish that ends up "in the cooler" -- ANY cooler. This, in my earnest view, is NOT analogous to the brief time involved in performing a good-faith release.

If it was DNR's intent to allow an angler to harvest [which implies brief "possession" as distinguished from legitimate C & R] limits for himself and additional limits or legal fish for others [whether one or several], the law/regs would say so explicitly. In fact, maybe it does say so somewhere, and I am simply not aware. 

- Chris

*** - For the record, I give fish away to friends/neighbors -- at home -- from time to time, but they are always from within my own legal daily limit. This is CLEARLY accounted for in the VA law as cited on this forum. I never have put more than two fish in my cooler. In the rare instances when I have coolered two fish, additional fish [provided water temps/salinity allow for reasonable expectation of survival] landed are immediately and carefully released, sometimes never leaving the water. To my knowledge, all of the anglers I fish with do the same. To me, this seems to be a reasonable and fair way to interpret the limit, and avoid any "gray" areas.

I do not point at any particular individual, but in general, I never have understood the desire to get acutely convenient in interpretation or otherwise game the system to harvest more fish -- for oneself or others. Again, I'm not pointing fingers, but if I were to get a ticket while doing so, I feel that I would only have myself to blame.


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## shaggy (Jun 18, 2003)

Way I read is, if you catch two leagals, and give one of them away, you can keep the next one. If you already have two, can't keep, or thus technically, until you actually transfer ownership of the fish you decide to give away, you are in possession of three, which is over the limit.

Have Jeep will travel


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## C.Salp (May 30, 2002)

Slightly OT:

Hey Shaggy -

It was great meeting you a couple of months back.

Been meaning to get over to the KN area to try some fishing  -- way too many work obligations lately, though  

How much longer will there be viable fishing opportunities in the area this fall?

CS


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## FatCatfish (May 26, 2006)

Lol everyone seem to have differnet ideas about keeping fish. How about we just do whatever we think is right. If they choose to do it and get caught its still their problem. But ehh if they aint get caught then its all cool. No body's business. Like on the road. The speed limit is 55. Dont tell me you all driving at exactly 55 miles per hour. So you know I think we should just do whatever we think is right. If you get caught on speed limit. It depends on alot of factors. So same as getting ticket for having more fish. Ehh and one thing. If anyone in here say the law is the law. Then dont ever drive over the speed limit.


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## fingersandclaws (Oct 17, 2005)

On our last trip, Chump caught a 18.5" rock at the choptank. When we went to OC, where the min. length is 28", we kept the 18.5" rock in the car because if DNR showed up, we had no way of proving it was from the Choptank, and not tidal waters. We were throwing back 22-26" rock off the Rt. 50 bridge, so, the moral of the story:

Know the law, abide by it as you interpret, and if the DNR disagrees with your interpretation, tough luck, eat the ticket, and you'll know next time. 

I think we get more upset at those that blatently disregard the rules and don't even attempt at trying to follow them.


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## fish b8 (Oct 24, 2005)

*what if...*

instead of being three guys on a boat wit one cooler, you are three guys on the tailgate of a truck with one cooler.....

I would think you would be allowed six fish.... just like if you were on a boat...

fb


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## Baited Breath (Sep 3, 2006)

Gents,

I have been trying to keep up with all the senarios and the one I am not able to see is when Fisherman (a) catches 2 fish and gives the second one away leaving him 1. He then continues to fish until he catches and keeps his second. 

This would mean he caught 3 fish. He didn't cull any because size does not matter other than being legal.

The senario that I am reading is that more than one person sharing a cooler. This I know to be ok as long as the number of fish in the cooler do not exceed the limit for the number of licenced fishermen using it.


My only hope is that the initial incident was done in good faith. As I like to tell my staff, "Do the right thing" that is all we can do. If it doesnt feel right then you probably shouldnt do it. 

This is where greed comes in.


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## C.Salp (May 30, 2002)

[Warning: Long Post]

Treating our laws as if they are the same as driving 56 mph… 
…and if you don’t get caught [violating a given law] then it’s all cool.

Appreciate the thoughts, but I'd like to offer some additional perspective for consideration:

Hypothetical: If someone steals a rod and reel out of my rod rack containing eight of them, and he does not get caught, it’s “all cool” that he did not see the laws on larceny as being applicable to him?? It was only one rod out of eight, and he did not get caught….

Zeroing back in on bag/size limits, and the speed limit analogy offered.... How in the world can fishery managers set ANY useful size and bag limits at all, if in practice it’s all sort of a game, and we should all just do “whatever we think is right?” I think that sporting ethics are important underpinnings to both an enjoyable sport for all, and to implementing an effective management system. 

Further, if this is simply reduced to whether or not we are caught [as in, any decision/interpretation presumably being “okay” as long as we’re “not caught,”] where does it put us? 

I think most of us have driven a few mph over 55 on a highway in the known presence of police/trooper/sheriff/etc., knowing that they would not pull us over for that. Regarding observation of fishing rules/regs, if it’s something you could not or would not do with a DNR enforcement person right there every moment, it’s not okay.

Another part of the reason that a “cushion” exists in enforcing speed limits on the highway, is that there are different tolerances and levels of accuracy in folks’ speedometers [and to some extent, law enforcement’s equipment calibration as well]. These are legitimate variables. There are also variants related to terrain and conditions [that, by the way, are somewhat accounted for in the law]. If everyone that went 56 or 57 mph got a ticket, the courts would be clogged with people who would eventually get off or have their charges reduced, based upon “faulty equipment.”

In contrast…. 
I think it’s reasonable to observe that counting to 2 [as in a 2 fish per day limit] is very straightforward….and is very straightforward in terms of what might be regarded by the public as compliance, or what’s expected or “okay.” Again, this is in contrast with legitimate variables in measuring driving speed above.
***Clearly, the speed limit analogy does not apply. *** 

There might be examples of “honest” mistakes, like holding the tape an inch off and HONESTLY not realizing it. Or, say, honestly not realizing that the sizes/limits/seasons pamphlet in your tackle box was out-of-date, and making a mistake based upon that. There are undoubtedly many others, as well. Good faith is the key. Situations like these might still result in tickets, but they are IMHO distinguishable ethically. Rushing an extra fish over to someone’s cooler and simply not happening to get caught by an enforcement agent, however, is not.

How about some fundamental sporting ethics? We’re not talking about a high bar here in simply following the listed limits while enjoying the resource. I agree that we all should do whatever we think is right –- within the law/regulations, which in this case are VERY clear so long as one does not try to get “cute” or convenient in their interpretation. Fishing is supposed to be fun, and in my view it helps all of us enjoy the sport and the resource if we all observe the limits that are in place -- to help us all enjoy the sport over the long haul.

- Chris
[Sorry again for the long post]

PS - I also agree with the scenario of three folks fishing out of one vehicle, with one cooler holding all of the fish. As others have indicated here, there's good faith [as in accomodation of logistical arrangements for holding fish], and then there's getting "cute" with one's interpretation in order to justify taking more fish -- there's a BIG difference...


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## FatCatfish (May 26, 2006)

Hey C.Salp, i appreciate your thought there, but there is something i want to make it clear.

"Hypothetical: If someone steals a rod and reel out of my rod rack containing eight of them, and he does not get caught, it’s “all cool” that he did not see the laws on larceny as being applicable to him?? It was only one rod out of eight, and he did not get caught…." 

***We are not stealing anything here***

"I think most of us have driven a few mph over 55 on a highway in the known presence of police/trooper/sheriff/etc., knowing that they would not pull us over for that. Regarding observation of fishing rules/regs, if it’s something you could not or would not do with a DNR enforcement person right there every moment, it’s not okay.

Another part of the reason that a “cushion” exists in enforcing speed limits on the highway, is that there are different tolerances and levels of accuracy in folks’ speedometers [and to some extent, law enforcement’s equipment calibration as well]. These are legitimate variables. There are also variants related to terrain and conditions [that, by the way, are somewhat accounted for in the law]. If everyone that went 56 or 57 mph got a ticket, the courts would be clogged with people who would eventually get off or have their charges reduced, based upon “faulty equipment.”"

***Rules are made up by people, everything varies. What i am saying is that as of the speed limit. You can drive over 5 , 10 miles and it is still safe on the road. To compare to the question that what is the different between give away the third fish to another person or put it back to the water. I think that the person that have the fish should have the right to make the decison. I think that the rules are just made up so there is something we can follow. But at some point, we should have out own thought into it. If u keep 2 fish. and give away the third one. to some one. Is what i compare to my thought of driving 60 mph at a 55mph limit. You should have to right to think that is right to do it. We pay for the lisence, we spend out time to fish for the fish. It come from natures. Are we really stealing something?***

btw i don't know if the speed limit analogy is a perfect analogy. But it is just a decent thought that a fisherman like me think. And i clearly think that at some point we should do what we think is right, instead of follow the rule 100%. But i never mean to not follow them. And people can do what they want. If they choose to go to jail. It is there business.


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## Green Cart (May 14, 2002)

*We Have Been Thru This Before ....*

http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16352&highlight=cull

Read the above link where Hat80 made me put my thinking hat on. You cannot even give away a striped bass period


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Green Cart said:


> http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16352&highlight=cull
> 
> Read the above link where Hat80 made me put my thinking hat on. You cannot even give away a striped bass period


Thanks GC. This has been my point all along.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

FatCatfish said:


> Hey C.Salp, i appreciate your thought there, but there is something i want to make it clear.
> 
> "Hypothetical: If someone steals a rod and reel out of my rod rack containing eight of them, and he does not get caught, it’s “all cool” that he did not see the laws on larceny as being applicable to him?? It was only one rod out of eight, and he did not get caught…."
> 
> ...



It seems that you are implying that you are unaffected by other peoples bad decisions. No one has a "right" to break the laws or interpret them to their own liking

That speeder may be risking a ticket (yes we all speed from time to time) but at what point does it become wreckless driving and endanger others. If enough people break the rules, keeping or giving away illegal fish, at some point it is likely to affect the fishery. In other words yes you are "stealing fish", the resource that is, from future generations.

Hmm thought I was done with the soap box. Guess not.


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## shaggy (Jun 18, 2003)

C.Salp said:


> Slightly OT:
> 
> Hey Shaggy -
> 
> ...


Hey C, nice meeting you also. Long as weather holds up, who can tell, another week till season ends, so be hitting there a few times before then. AI Thursday - Saturday.

Have Jeep will travel


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## supercast (May 17, 2006)

*my 2 fish*

Say i caught 2 legal stripers and i gave them to my licensed fishing budies next to me , am i braking the law, frankly speaking somebody from dnr needs to clear this up because i have done that many times ( i am not a lover of stripers to eat) also, i have seen that done many times by other anglers , another thing we are only addressing stripers , what about other fish e.g blues, croakers etc


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

*thoughts*

In MD and PA freshwater fishing ....... fish on one stringer belongs to one person ...... 6 bass limit and two guys in a boat with 8 fish better have them on two stringers or livewells or the boat owner gets a big ticket ....... 

If you catch 3 stripers you have exceded the limit by 50% ....... what if everybody caught 50%
over their limit ....... how long would this fishery last ?


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## hengstthomas (Mar 11, 2006)

Dont you guys want to be able to catch fish in the future or maybe your kids being able to..I am originally from Maryland but from where I am now and after reading some of these responses ... well lets just say I am disappointed . I wish some of you would find a new hobby and not try to ruin mine.
One apple can ruin a whole bushel and it still dont compare to oranges so stop with the driving/fishing comparisons and find the truth.To act without knowing is stupid to say the least.


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## Dae (Jun 25, 2002)

surfchunker said:


> If you catch 3 stripers you have exceded the limit by 50% ....... what if everybody caught 50%
> over their limit ....... how long would this fishery last ?



The fishery could last forever because catching doesn't mean keeping. At times, I've caught over 500%+ over the limit, but I didn't keep a single fish.

Also, as Shaggy's email from a DNR rep showed, MD's law is based on possession not catching. Now if you're worried about every licensed fishermen keep their limit, that might be another story. Even if ever licensed fishermen took home their limit, does that mean the fishery will decline? I don't know. Shoot, the limit could have been set based on the avg daily number of licensed fishermen taking home their limit. If it was, it could mean that the DNR already accounted for 10 fish being taken home if 5 people fish on given pier a day. If you took the law to mean only the catcher was able to take their 2 fish home and the other 4 didn't catch anything, I guess, the rec anglers are taking fish below their quota.

Remember, MD's striper possession limits are based on a quota. If we exceed this number, as it has happened during our trophy season, we will take a hit somewhere else. If we are below our quota, we lose what we don't take. That's not a bad thing, but what's wrong with giving that extra fish to your fellow fishermen having a bad day out? Will those fish put us over our quota or have the law makers already account for these fish based on the number of licensed fishermen when setting the possession limit?

Dang, I hope I made sense... 

- Dae


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*Quota's= wrong direction*



Dae said:


> The fishery could last forever because catching doesn't mean keeping. At times, I've caught over 500%+ over the limit, but I didn't keep a single fish.
> 
> Also, as Shaggy's email from a DNR rep showed, MD's law is based on possession not catching. Now if you're worried about every licensed fishermen keep their limit, that might be another story. Even if ever licensed fishermen took home their limit, does that mean the fishery will decline? I don't know. Shoot, the limit could have been set based on the avg daily number of licensed fishermen taking home their limit. If it was, it could mean that the DNR already accounted for 10 fish being taken home if 5 people fish on given pier a day. If you took the law to mean only the catcher was able to take their 2 fish home and the other 4 didn't catch anything, I guess, the rec anglers are taking fish below their quota.
> 
> ...


I am sure the methodologies used to come up with state wide quotas varies and there may be room to argue some of the points you brought up. It still amounts to working the angles to claim you are not hurting the fishery. 

If you want to question the politics behind quotas that is one thing, if you use it to justify taking more than your allowable personal daily "quota" that is simply an excuse for saying you don't agree with the daily creel limit that is in place.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*Another take on the quota argument*

Suppose the fishing is hot and I am vertually assured of catching my two fish limit any day of the week. If I go fishing everyday I am allowed to reduce the fish population by 14 fish. 

I don't think anyone here is going to buy into the idea that if I can make it fishing only one day out of the seven that I should be allowed to take 14 fish on that one day- even though it would ultimately have the exact same impact on the fishery.

Same goes for the buddy argument- My buddy stays home and I have a good day so I take 4 fish and give him two- same result to the fishery if he had come along.

Now suppose my buddy comes along but gets skunked- do I have the right to catch his two fish for him? I might want to give him the fish but I would still be bending the rules to suit my own justifications.


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## FatCatfish (May 26, 2006)

First Person --- go 7 day straight --- 2 fish everyday --- total 14 --- Obey the law

Second person --- go 1 day --- 7 fish --- total 7 fish --- Broke the law

Wow there is something to think about! Is the second person really stealing anything?


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## DickDog (Jul 19, 2006)

Because i don't remember the scenario..the question needs to be asked whether or not the person you gave the fish to was in the boat with you? If he/she was then it is a 2 fish per person per boat ruling and you would technically be correct. 
However if you were the only one in the boat and you gave to another person on the land then you would be in violation by posessing more than 2 fish at once. 

Now if that other person is in a boat and you give them a fish before you posess a third then its definately a grey area. I would say its probably not the intent of the law to allow you to pass fish from one vessel to another and the burden of proof would be on you to prove the law was written to imply as such which you probably would not be able to do. 

Once you posess (not return to water immediately) 2 fish at any point you have reached your limit whether they have been given away or not. To posess another fish at any point that day whether or not you physically have posession of any previous fish would be a 3rd fish.


Most would agree that the law is intended to allow an angler to not return to the waters immediately more than 2 fish per day.

If you and buddy were surffishing and had one cooler with four fish in it then your probably fine. But if the man saw you  keep all four than in MHO that would be illegal. 

Rules for boats especially charters vary from rules for shore.


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## oldsalt (May 6, 2003)

This is easy, Catch Release,go home and have a steak. Why fill the freezer, the only way to eat fish is fresh.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

DickDog said:


> Because i don't remember the scenario..the question needs to be asked whether or not the person you gave the fish to was in the boat with you? If he/she was then it is a 2 fish per person per boat ruling and you would technically be correct.
> However if you were the only one in the boat and you gave to another person on the land then you would be in violation by posessing more than 2 fish at once.
> 
> Now if that other person is in a boat and you give them a fish before you posess a third then its definately a grey area. I would say its probably not the intent of the law to allow you to pass fish from one vessel to another and the burden of proof would be on you to prove the law was written to imply as such which you probably would not be able to do.
> ...



Think you got most of the jist right- just remember- if any individual takes more than 2 fish it is illegal- whether the man saw you or not-

Getting caught does not make the act illegal- the act itself is illegal- anal person that I am


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## photocat (May 29, 2006)

CJS said:


> At some point in the fishing trip you were in possesion of three fish.


If you are throwing that same fish back you'd be in possession of the third fish anyway... I don't see a problem w/ an angler giving a fish to another angler... I do it all the time, whether i'm at my limit or not... if someone's not having luck they aren't having luck... nice to be able to give them dinner atleast... 


And fish limits are interpreted different ways by different DNR officers... on a charter boat you don't seperate out the fish do you? 4 people fishing w/ a 2 fish limit and one person catch's 5 fish does it mean that he can't keep the 3 extras because he's over his limit? Nope... thats 2 for his limit and 1 for the other 3 each... as long as the cumulative doesn't go over the ratio you should be fine... and thats as long as your not going back to your car too to "refresh" your limit by emptying your cooler too... They'll nail you on that one big time


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## Hat80 (Sep 22, 2002)

*Just for the record......*

It is illegal to sell or give away any fish that you catch on a recreational fishing license in the Cheasapeake Bay from boat or shore, end of story.

People keep bringing up charter boats, they play by another set of laws. When your fishing on a charter you under a commercial license. Any fish that comes off that boat can be sold or givin away. Like it or not, thats what the laws are.....Hat


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## stonemason (Aug 4, 2006)

if my buddy and i are fishing at sandy point, we have one cooler. we have 3 striper's in the cooler. the DNR DOES NOT ask who caught what. i could have caught all 3 and we would be fine. as long as we only leave with 4 stripers. why is everyone complaining about who caught what.


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## Dae (Jun 25, 2002)

Hat80 said:


> People keep bringing up charter boats, they play by another set of laws. When your fishing on a charter you under a commercial license. Any fish that comes off that boat can be sold or givin away. Like it or not, thats what the laws are.....Hat


Are you sure about them operating under a commercial license? If so, why are the catches counted against the Rec quota and why are they under the same Rec catch restriction other then the one boat fish?

My understanding with charters are that they are Recs fishing from a for hire boat. Similar to Recs fishing from pay to use pier. 

Basically Recs catch/keep the fish so they are bound by Rec fishing rules.

If it was commercial, then I would think they would be limited to hook and line laws... What's that, 4 people max allowed to fish from a boat and all fish tagged against a commercial quota. I know if I take my buddy out with me and we hang his H&L license on my boat, we can take all the stripers we want against his commercial quota. 


- Dae


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