# Black Drum suddenly appearing in the late 1990s?



## hugehail (May 25, 2013)

I've collected fishing reports from 1977 to 2013 for southeast NC beaches. I am still in the process of processing all of this information. I have learned a lot so far and there are still
mysteries, one of which I thought I would ask the group about.

I have noticed that there are no reports of Black Drum prior to 1998 off the piers or anywhere in the fishing reports for that matter dating back to 1978. Today these fish are commonplace, and in fairly big
numbers in April-May and November. Does anyone on here have any insight on this? Perhaps the fish were there back then, but just not included in the fishing reports? I find that hard
to believe.

jf


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## bronzbck1 (Jun 13, 2007)

Trash fish


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## Dr. Bubba (Nov 9, 1999)

not a trash fish when it's 15lbs.

or 5 for that matter. Very good eats!

In VA, you're only allowed one fish over 16 inches.
Very large blacks are fairly common at certain times, and there are numerous fish up to 20 and 30 lbs.

I believe NC would have a wonderful small black drum population if "some" limits were in place.
lotta folks coolerin up those small blacks.


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## jakiger (Sep 22, 2006)

Looks like those limits are on the way starting Jan 1 2014. About time

http://www.northcarolinasportsman.com/details.php?id=3889


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## hugehail (May 25, 2013)

*Black Drum*



jakiger said:


> Looks like those limits are on the way starting Jan 1 2014. About time
> 
> http://www.northcarolinasportsman.com/details.php?id=3889


The only issue I have with limits on fish in general is that the person who lives on the beach who can catch 10 fish a day for 365 days out of the year, has an advantage over the person who lives in Kansas who spends hundreds of dollars traveling just to fish for a few days. And what
if the fish are only biting 1 day? If you are fishing for blues, and you have 1 day of good fishing out of 5, you get to keep 10 fish in your cooler
and then go back to Kansas. But I suppose if you go to the market and buy fish, you can buy as many as you want, right? That is kind of
hypocritical. Either way, whether you buy them at the market or catch them, you are helping to deplete the fish supply.


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## westernny (Feb 18, 2006)

hugehail said:


> The only issue I have with limits on fish in general is that the person who lives on the beach who can catch 10 fish a day for 365 days out of the year, has an advantage over the person who lives in Kansas who spends hundreds of dollars traveling just to fish for a few days. And what
> if the fish are only biting 1 day? If you are fishing for blues, and you have 1 day of good fishing out of 5, you get to keep 10 fish in your cooler
> and then go back to Kansas. But I suppose if you go to the market and buy fish, you can buy as many as you want, right? That is kind of
> hypocritical. Either way, whether you buy them at the market or catch them, you are helping to deplete the fish supply.


Sounds like you should move to Carolinas if you want to keep more fish than the law allows, your argument makes no sense. Do you really vacation just for fresh fish to eat?


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## hugehail (May 25, 2013)

*Black Drum*



westernny said:


> Sounds like you should move to Carolinas if you want to keep more fish than the law allows, your argument makes no sense. Do you really vacation just for fresh fish to eat?


I dont really care if you like my argument or not. lol.


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

The black drum DID just show up out of nowhere for whatever reason. I had never caught one and had only seen a couple caught until the late 90's and I have been fishing for drum since the late 70's......Old Drum Inlet was actually named for BIG BLACK DRUM a long time ago so at one point they were plentiful and then just vanished before making a comeback. Black Drum are my main target these days and I am more than ok with the 2014 regulations to keep things in check for the future.


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## don brinson (Apr 8, 2011)

I fished about 270 or more days a year back in 76 thru 80.In that time I caught 1 black drum. This past spring I got 30 in 1 day, all between 3 to 4 pounds each. I do see your point . But I do more surf fishing now. I fished kings back then. But nov. thru jan. I fished the suds for trout and reds. never saw a black drum.


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

hugehail said:


> The only issue I have with limits on fish in general is that the person who lives on the beach who can catch 10 fish a day for 365 days out of the year, has an advantage over the person who lives in Kansas who spends hundreds of dollars traveling just to fish for a few days. And what
> if the fish are only biting 1 day? If you are fishing for blues, and you have 1 day of good fishing out of 5, you get to keep 10 fish in your cooler
> and then go back to Kansas. But I suppose if you go to the market and buy fish, you can buy as many as you want, right? That is kind of
> hypocritical. Either way, whether you buy them at the market or catch them, you are helping to deplete the fish supply.


Not trying to pick a fight here but your argument IS foolish. These regulations are put in place to protect the FISH STOCK not to insure "you" get your moneys worth for travelling to North Carolina to vacation. If you have a bad fishing trip just buy you some fresh from one of our local fish houses. I'm sure they would appreciate the business.


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## Starboard (Apr 23, 2008)

Thanks for starting this tread JF because I was thinking about black drum last week. Won't name names, but there is a "Crystal Coast" pier that posts pictures on their fishing report. A picture this week has the caption "cooler of black drum". I put on my reading glasses and yes, it looked like a cooler full of black drum. Only problem I saw was that the biggest one you can see looks like it is about 7 or 8 inches long and most you can see are smaller. I fished within sight of that pier a few days a couple weeks ago and caught at least 30 black drum in a few hours. Biggest one was about 10 inches and every single one went back in the surf because I thought they were too small. Restrictions are needed because there are a lot people who fill a cooler with very small fish and are proud of it......


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## Bullred (Mar 13, 2010)

Used to catch lots of black drum off the beach at Lea Island when I was a kid in the 70's.


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## hugehail (May 25, 2013)

DrumintheSuds said:


> Not trying to pick a fight here but your argument IS foolish. These regulations are put in place to protect the FISH STOCK not to insure "you" get your moneys worth for travelling to North Carolina to vacation. If you have a bad fishing trip just buy you some fresh from one of our local fish houses. I'm sure they would appreciate the business.


At least some other people actually have something intelligent to say in response to the original post. This post wasnt about limits, I just responded because someone else brought it up. And if you dont like what I had
to say, I really dont care.


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## hugehail (May 25, 2013)

Starboard said:


> Thanks for starting this tread JF because I was thinking about black drum last week. Won't name names, but there is a "Crystal Coast" pier that posts pictures on their fishing report. A picture this week has the caption "cooler of black drum". I put on my reading glasses and yes, it looked like a cooler full of black drum. Only problem I saw was that the biggest one you can see looks like it is about 7 or 8 inches long and most you can see are smaller. I fished within sight of that pier a few days a couple weeks ago and caught at least 30 black drum in a few hours. Biggest one was about 10 inches and every single one went back in the surf because I thought they were too small. Restrictions are needed because there are a lot people who fill a cooler with very small fish and are proud of it......


Yeah its crazy. Why would anyone want to catch those small black drum that are hard to clean and certainly not worth the effort. So that restriction doesn't bother me at all. That said, If they really are interested in preserving the fishery, why not place restrictions on Spot? Unlike the Black Drum, Spot have been on the decline the past few years. If this keeps up, the piers are going to stop seeing as many customers in the fall. It seems to me that they are only interested in placing restrictions on fish that get big. Personally, I dont get my jollies standing out fishing for 12 hours in hopes that I might land the big one and supercharge my ego.


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## bronzbck1 (Jun 13, 2007)

Caught plenty today and threw everyone back, much better quality fish to catch and keep for a meal. Most people I know throw back black drum. All I see that keep them are unskilled meat fisherman.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

hugehail said:


> The only issue I have with limits on fish in general is that the person who lives on the beach who can catch 10 fish a day for 365 days out of the year, has an advantage over the person who lives in Kansas who spends hundreds of dollars traveling just to fish for a few days. And what
> if the fish are only biting 1 day? If you are fishing for blues, and you have 1 day of good fishing out of 5, you get to keep 10 fish in your cooler
> and then go back to Kansas. But I suppose if you go to the market and buy fish, you can buy as many as you want, right? That is kind of
> hypocritical. Either way, whether you buy them at the market or catch them, you are helping to deplete the fish supply.


Technically you cannot buy as many fish as you want of whole fish that have a daily possession limit, does not matter who caught the Fish if it is in your possession, in your cooler and you do not have other people with you claiming a share of the fish and the count of fish is over the limit and you are checked by Marine Fisheries Officers you are going to get a ticket.

Like was mentioned previously the limits are in place to protect the fish not to evenly distribute the Fish to those who wish to pursue them.


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## hugehail (May 25, 2013)

Garboman said:


> Technically you cannot buy as many fish as you want of whole fish that have a daily possession limit, does not matter who caught the Fish if it is in your possession, in your cooler and you do not have other people with you claiming a share of the fish and the count of fish is over the limit and you are checked by Marine Fisheries Officers you are going to get a ticket.
> 
> Like was mentioned previously the limits are in place to protect the fish not to evenly distribute the Fish to those who wish to pursue them.


If this is all about preserving the fishery, then why place limits on Black Drum that are on the increase and not Spot that are on the decline? I say be coherent and place limits on both. Back in the 80s they
carted Spots off the piers by the thousands, and if you dont believe me, check the old fishing reports.  And I really wonder what leads to overfishing these days, the recreational angler or the many boats out there getting fish by the thousands.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

hugehail said:


> If this is all about preserving the fishery, then why place limits on Black Drum that are on the increase and not Spot that are on the decline? I say be coherent and place limits on both. Back in the 80s they
> carted Spots off the piers by the thousands, and if you dont believe me, check the old fishing reports.  And I really wonder what leads to overfishing these days, the recreational angler or the many boats out there getting fish by the thousands.



I fished for a bit in the 1980's Black Drum were pretty scarce on the OBX, seen some monster 100 pound size fish in the 1960's but the Black Drum were not around much in the 1980's-1990's

I imagine they will put limits on all fish that are in decline, the environmental/government control mandates this sort of activity

I have noticed this in the last forty years of fishing the OBX

When there was no limit on Puppy Drum they were scarce and you would rarely catch them in Nags Head in the 1980's

When the Puppy Drum minimum size limit was 14 inches you caught mostly 13 inch and below Dinks on Hatteras

When Puppy Drum minimum size limit was moved to 18 inches you caught a ton of 17 3/4" inch fish on Hatteras

The Big Red Drum came back from a serious decline and this is due to a total moratorium on fish larger than 28"

If the Large Red Drum were not protected they would be scarce, I like fishing for Red Drum and if I never am able to eat another one in this lifetime to me that is a reasonable trade off so I can get bowed up with regularity


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## straps57 (Nov 19, 2008)

Garboman said:


> *Technically you cannot buy as many fish as you want of whole fish that have a daily possession limit,* does not matter who caught the Fish if it is in your possession, in your cooler and you do not have other people with you claiming a share of the fish and the count of fish is over the limit and you are checked by Marine Fisheries Officers you are going to get a ticket.
> 
> Like was mentioned previously the limits are in place to protect the fish not to evenly distribute the Fish to those who wish to pursue them.


Yes you can. You can purchase the whole inventory of a fish house if you want. Perfectly legal to have in your possession as long as you are not engaged in any fishing activity.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

straps57 said:


> Yes you can. You can purchase the whole inventory of a fish house if you want. Perfectly legal to have in your possession as long as you are not engaged in any fishing activity.


I would like to see you try and explain this to one of the more vigorous Park Rangers out on the beach on Hatteras Island with 400 pounds of specs in your 100 quart coolers and only you in the vehicle and no commercial license in your wallet......

And after you have explained it to the Park Ranger you will then have to re-explain to Judge Boyle in Elizabeth City and then you can let us know how it worked out for you....


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## hugehail (May 25, 2013)

Lets see, boats catching millions of fish, whole schools of fish versus the recreational fishermen. Hmm. I wonder where the overfishing is coming from. lol. I simply dont buy into the BS. If the authorities are serious
about fish preservation, they would go after the real culprits.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

hugehail said:


> Lets see, boats catching millions of fish, whole schools of fish versus the recreational fishermen. Hmm. I wonder where the overfishing is coming from. lol. I simply dont buy into the BS. If the authorities are serious
> about fish preservation, they would go after the real culprits.


The real culprits are all of us or as Loner would put it ALL OF US


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## hugehail (May 25, 2013)

Well I cant argue with that. The human being is one effed up species, raping and pillaging the planet.  Of course that mindset stems from the fact that most humans think that this universe was created just for us, when in actuality, we share 99% of DNA with the chimp and are not that much smarter or deserving. lol


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## gilly21 (Feb 15, 2006)

The only black drum I keep are for bait. Know of a couple guys that did pretty well with a black drum noggin a couple years ago. Landed 5 fish on the same noggin. Course bait has got to be pretty scarce for me to chunk one up, but I aint against it. Given the chance I would put the blade to one big drum a season if I was able to get a trophy tag for one. But until that happens I got no problem letting every one swim away and make me more. Drum is not my favorite fish to eat, black or red. 

I would seriously like to see a limit on spot. I think 20 fish a day would be a great limit. Plenty around to keep that many but not fill a cooler or bucket. And 20 fresh spot should get you through a day or two of hard drummin.


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## gilly21 (Feb 15, 2006)

hugehail said:


> we share 99% of DNA with the chimp and are not that much smarter or deserving. lol


Hey....I resemble that remark!


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

Black Drum a trash fish? LOLOLOLOLOLOL

I'll take that trash all day long and then some.


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

I think the fisheries people hit the size and creel limit right on the head with black drum. Do it NOW and be proactive......

Reds I think they could raise it to 2 a day within the slot.


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## River (Sep 30, 2006)

I agree DITS --- except if they raise Reds to two, I think the lower end of the Slot should be 20" - there's just not much meat on a 18" puppy. Then lets go to Flounder, lets lower them a little and put the restriction on everybody, Recs and Comms --- since the technology has increased with better electronics, fish are easier to locate, also with the introduction of the lite weight Gig light the Flounder gigging has increased 20 fold ---- On the right nights (believe me the Commercial guys know the right nights - their Grandpappy told em) you can see dots of light all over the sound ---- Recs can keep 6 over 15, Comms can keep a boat load over 14 --- believe me about this, the Comms have jumped all over these new lightweight lights and gigs, I been there, I've seen it ---- I have lots of friends that are Commercial Fisherman and I respect them all, and I know times are tight, I would be doing the same thing if I were in their shoes and the MF allowed me to. With Fish bringing the high price they're bringing at the fishhouse --- 7 lb of Flounder over 20 bucks --- again $$$ ---- We all gotta give to save the resource ---- We all cryed at what the MF did with Reds for years, how they didn't know what they were doin ---- now look, everybody catchin em all sizes ---- the Cormorants still need to go ---- River


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## luckyOC (Apr 3, 2010)

need to do the same thing with bass as they have done with the drum...

I kept my fair share of pups this year... and actually take comfort that most that we where blessed with from NJ all the way down to OBX will be too big to keep next year. Do not change a thing with the DRUM


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## bronzbck1 (Jun 13, 2007)

If they got rid of the Cormorants the gray trout would come back strong as well as the other small fish in the sound.
I don't eat fish with worms!


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

I can count on one hand the number of black drum I have cleaned with a worm in it....but to each his own


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## clean one (Nov 7, 2006)

I caught one at the north end of Topsail Island about 10 years ago that weighed 47 lbs, never seen a worm in any of it !! I have been told that most al fish have parasites of some kind or another. I run a meat/seafood department in a grocery store and if you want to see worms, just go buy some fresh atlantic cod. Never seen anything like it !!


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## Dr. Bubba (Nov 9, 1999)

Never have cleaned a black drum and found worms, but I only keep fish between 5-20lbs.
I have found a worm while cleaning a flounder once, but I had to just flick that sucker away and keep going.


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## dsurf (Aug 5, 2003)

Black drum were a frequent pier catch back in the early 60s........caught quite a few.


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## gilly21 (Feb 15, 2006)

Cleaned one up in NJ from the Delaware bay that was loaded with them. Also Cleaned an AJ next to a guy who "never saw worms" in AJs either. Showed him a worm and how close they are to the color of the flesh and he was dumbfounded. Probably been eating them and didn't even know it. Fact of the matter is the worms wont hurt you, it's just the thought of eating a worm that is tough to get past. Cook the fish well and no worries.

Oh and worms are more concentrated in the tail third of the fish and you can usually get a decent steak out of the fillet that is clean.


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## gshivar (Aug 29, 2006)

gilly21 - You got it right bout worms. Have seen them in sp trout, flounder and all the wormy fish - like aj's. Years ago was fileting sp trout from lower CF river (had guest for dinner) all had worms! Fried and everyone enjoyed them. Cooked you could not see the worms. Just more protien. best - glenn


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## jakiger (Sep 22, 2006)

Garboman said:


> I would like to see you try and explain this to one of the more vigorous Park Rangers out on the beach on Hatteras Island with 400 pounds of specs in your 100 quart coolers and only you in the vehicle and no commercial license in your wallet......
> 
> And after you have explained it to the Park Ranger you will then have to re-explain to Judge Boyle in Elizabeth City and then you can let us know how it worked out for you....


I'd say it's an easy argument to prove. Just show a receipt where you bought them.


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

jakiger said:


> I'd say it's an easy argument to prove. Just show a receipt where you bought them.


It sure would be easy to prove

If you kept your receipt, do you keep all your receipts?

If they gave you a receipt at the hypothetical "Fish House" the previous posters mentioned

We sold fish to Tillman's Seafood from Avon when I was a Comm at Rodanthe Creek in 1992

Sometimes people who knew that fresh fish would be available when the boats came in around 10:00-11:00 AM would come buy fish for* CASH* from Tillman's Seafood employees who packed all the fish and crabs from Rodanthe and no one ever asked for a receipt or was there a means to provide them as this was not a retail establishment, it was a Fish Shack that sat beside the current Ferry Dock in space now occupied by a public boat ramp.

Buy your fish at Food Lion in Avon and the fish may have traveled from Avon to Fulton Market in NY and then back to Food Lion in Avon two days after it left Avon in the first place.


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## drumchaser (Jan 14, 2003)

bronzbck1 said:


> Caught plenty today and threw everyone back, much better quality fish to catch and keep for a meal. Most people I know throw back black drum. All I see that keep them are unskilled meat fisherman.


Ouch. That hurt. LoL. (This is a fun thread)


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

drumchaser said:


> Ouch. That hurt. LoL. (This is a fun thread)


I'm still trying to figure out what an unskilled meat fishermen is.....LOLOLOL


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## drumchaser (Jan 14, 2003)

DrumintheSuds said:


> I'm still trying to figure out what an unskilled meat fishermen is.....LOLOLOL


I'm afraid to ask man. Afraid to ask. LOL. This thread could take a nose dive fast if you know what I mean.LOL.


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## WNCRick (Sep 24, 2007)

well this is just getting funny as hell.............


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

drumchaser said:


> I'm afraid to ask man. Afraid to ask. LOL. This thread could take a nose dive fast if you know what I mean.LOL.


I've been called a lot of things over the years but an unskilled meat fishermen is a new one


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

gshivar said:


> gilly21 - You got it right bout worms. Have seen them in sp trout, flounder and all the wormy fish - like aj's. Years ago was fileting sp trout from lower CF river (had guest for dinner) all had worms! Fried and everyone enjoyed them. Cooked you could not see the worms. Just more protien. best
> - glenn


(I cleared this with the new Protocol Officer and he/she/they said I was free to comment on something other than Black Drum)

Large Red Drum (over 40 inch size) sometimes have worms in their tail section, same as their cousin the Black Drum and Amberjacks, I have seen worms in even small ten to fifteen pound AJ's on the OBX, larger AJ's are all most guaranteed to have worms in their tail sections

Prior to the Ban standard practice for me anyway if I was going to keep the large Drum to eat, was to filet the large Drum and if I saw evidence of worms I would leave the rear tail section on the fish where the worms congregate and then feed the carcass along with the worms to the Sharks and Crabs and after removing the Drum Stones.

The worms in large Red Drum were around a half inch to one inch long very very thin, white in color and certainly if you cooked the fish would not be noticed even if you were looking for them

I never knowingly ate any worms, back in the Day, but if I did by mistake this may explain why I have failing eyesight and memory loss and no longer have a 34" waistline......


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## gshivar (Aug 29, 2006)

Garboman- that might be one reason for my porblems; along with chewing split shot and chasing the skeeter truck on my bike in the days of DDT. I gotta a bunch of reasions why I'm not too bright. Best - glenn


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## bronzbck1 (Jun 13, 2007)

Ruff definition of a unskilled meat fisherman.......uses a hammer on a sand spike, has white and or yellow poles, claims he invented the River Rig and has been using it for years, also uses fire ball & metal stand up rigs in the surf to keep 10" and under black drum, blue fish, and wouldn't dare use a spot for bait....


I use to resemble that remark


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

gshivar said:


> Garboman- that might be one reason for my porblems; along with chewing split shot and chasing the skeeter truck on my bike in the days of DDT. I gotta a bunch of reasions why I'm not too bright. Best - glenn


That is how they "taught" all of us in the pre internet days Reading Field and Stream by flashlight if necessary, if you needed to cinch down your split shot and had no pliers handy you just used your teeth

On a sadder note the Man that operated the "Skeeter Truck on Hatteras Island" who was friend of mine passed away of cancer in his late 50's, we all felt it was due in part to him being forced by his job to inhale a deadly dose of the chemicals sprayed out each week all over the Island......


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## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

I followed those skeeter trucks all over Carolina Beach back in the day...Reckon I'll get what's coming to me.


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## jakiger (Sep 22, 2006)

Garboman said:


> It sure would be easy to prove
> 
> If you kept your receipt, do you keep all your receipts?
> 
> ...



You are way over thinking this thing. If you happen to lose your receipt or wallet gets stolen I'm sure you could take the officer back to where you bought the fish and get them to explain you bought it from them. Then again what if the Rapture happened and they all disappeared? Then I guess you are stuck.


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## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

I've cleaned Black drum around five pounds and found the worms in him almost to the ribs. It's a catch and release fishery for me now unless I need the little heads for big Drum bait. I'll admit too that I've some small AJ's full of worms as well. I know a lot of fish have them. But there is something about noodles crawling around after the filet slides down there back like butter that is not tempting to me.

Disclaimer: I've eaten a lot of things form mother ocean. Ocotpus, Conger eel, Uni, Soft shelled sand fleas, live spot. But I refuse to eat something with those little wormies in it...Just saying.


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## drumchaser (Jan 14, 2003)

Have often wondered how deep fried fleas would be. Cleaned a mess of trout before with worms as well. Y'all can have all those you want to while we're talking worms. I know, I know,it's coming, they won't hurt you deep fried but it's the thought and sight I can't get past. Lol


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## [email protected] (Jul 12, 2006)

Nothing beats the giant trematodes found in a wahoo. You don't want to split the wahoo meat with your green boatmates? Show them the worm and it's all yours


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## dlpetrey (Oct 30, 2013)

Anybody got any pics? Would like to see what these worms look like. Never seen any but never filleted a black drum either.


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## gshivar (Aug 29, 2006)

dlpetrey - worms I see in trout tissue and other fish tissue I always heard called spaghetti worms. Google image for "poecilancistrium caryophyllum". Wahoo worm is entirely different critter - living in the gut. Know you have seen the worm filaments sticking out of p drum and many others - pull on filament - nasty critter. Some flounder I filet will have a black area along outer fins - worm - fungus ?? I always cut it out. To me the all time grossest critter lives in the mouth of manhadden. Go to hook one for bait and this critter comes crawling out of its mouth. Know others have seen this. But I still love to eat fish!! best - glenn


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## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

That thing in a menhaden will bite you too. hurts like a sumbeetch.


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## fisho (Jan 6, 2009)

Ryan Y said:


> That thing in a menhaden will bite you too. hurts like a sumbeetch.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cymothoa_exigua

Those things are disgusting parasites. I saw a bunch of them this year comparative to the last 7 years. Not sure if i was looking for them or if they are on the increase.


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## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

Yea that's it. Hope you guys are well.


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