# croakers



## BIGAGOTUM (Apr 24, 2012)

Where r they, thinking of going out tomorrow need some ideas on where to go besides plsp?


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## mepps3 (May 18, 2007)

Only place I have seen good reports is point lookout (PLO). They have been there for 3 weeks. I think I read of a couple caught at Solomon's island. Not hot yet, though.


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## jigmeister (Feb 23, 2013)

hardheads are here on the Eastern shore now. The Nanticoke, Wicomico area shallows are producing nice catches


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## Windrift00 (Jun 4, 2011)

jigmeister said:


> hardheads are here on the Eastern shore now. The Nanticoke, Wicomico area shallows are producing nice catches


I was up near Preston this weekend and caught some nice big clean ones.


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## cnerem (Dec 29, 2011)

I was at the wicomico river park by MIR yesterday caught 3 with bw


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## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

I caught 9 of them from shore, near the mouth of the Patuxent River at sunset on Saturday. They were smallish, between 10-12" and hit bloodworms.


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## FishingKid (Nov 7, 2011)

Went To St Clements And Colonial Beach. Caught 9 Between 5 Of Us . Theyre Here But We Have To Wait For A String Of Warm Days And Nights Before They Come In Numbers


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## Croaker D (Apr 18, 2010)

Also bitting at solomons right now!


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## Tyrik (Jan 5, 2013)

Anybody been to benedicts lately? Thinking about riding down there next week...


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## Hueski (Feb 5, 2012)

Croaker D they hittin at Solomons good?


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## jigmeister (Feb 23, 2013)

Windrift00 said:


> I was up near Preston this weekend and caught some nice big clean ones.


Preston ? A little rare to see croakers that far up the Choptank, especially this early.


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## Croaker D (Apr 18, 2010)

Yes Hueski they have been coming over the rail pretty good but really no size on the 9" -12"


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## jigmeister (Feb 23, 2013)

Lot of BS


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## Croaker D (Apr 18, 2010)

I love the way ppl fish from there computer desk and tell the fisherman who put there time in on the water they are liars! It to me is comedy!


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## earl of DC (Jul 7, 2007)

Croaker D said:


> I love the way ppl fish from there computer desk and tell the fisherman who put there time in on the water they are liars! It to me is comedy!


i agree!!!!


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## Windrift00 (Jun 4, 2011)

jigmeister said:


> Preston ? A little rare to see croakers that far up the Choptank, especially this early.


Yup. Oddly enough, the big one wasn't caught with a hook. He got his lower jaw wrapped in my friends line. It was so strange.


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## Windrift00 (Jun 4, 2011)

Let's try this picture thing.


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## FishingKid (Nov 7, 2011)

Windrift00 said:


> Let's try this picture thing.


Looks Like An Alewife


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## Windrift00 (Jun 4, 2011)

Naw it wasn't. I held it.


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## Got 'em (May 13, 2009)

Windrift00 said:


> Naw it wasn't. I held it.


with all due respect, in my honest opinion, the picture looks to reveal that the fish is indeed in fact a Alewife(read: LY) or commonly known as Atlantic menhaden or bunker.

Great bait for rockfish and other predatory fish around the area. Alewives can be found in Chesapeake Bay, throughout the bay and its tributaries around this time. Secondly, what makes me believe that this fish is alewife is also the method of capture. Alewives are infamous for running into fishermen's line and becoming entangled. Many of them during this period of time will be caught because they were snagged while swimming recklessly near lines...

I'm not going to deny you may have caught croakers at PLO because it is possible; there are always outliers in the usual periods of fish coming in. Remember when we had all those redfish up here?  Possibly the fish that you caught(atleast in this photograph) was misidentified?

I give you the benefit of the doubt that the hardheads are here early. That would be nice 

BUT again, this is all my opinion. Thanks for posting regardless. For all the lurkers that don't contribute at all to P&S...there ain't no fish to be caught here!


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## Windrift00 (Jun 4, 2011)

Got 'em said:


> with all due respect, in my honest opinion, the picture looks to reveal that the fish is indeed in fact a Alewife(read: LY) or commonly known as Atlantic menhaden or bunker.
> 
> Great bait for rockfish and other predatory fish around the area. Alewives can be found in Chesapeake Bay, throughout the bay and its tributaries around this time. Secondly, what makes me believe that this fish is alewife is also the method of capture. Alewives are infamous for running into fishermen's line and becoming entangled. Many of them during this period of time will be caught because they were snagged while swimming recklessly near lines...
> 
> ...


Got a few smaller ones, and more perch. Mayhaps you're correct.


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## Got 'em (May 13, 2009)

Got 'em said:


> with all due respect, in my honest opinion, the picture looks to reveal that the fish is indeed in fact a Alewife(read: LY) or commonly known as Atlantic menhaden or bunker.
> 
> Great bait for rockfish and other predatory fish around the area. Alewives can be found in Chesapeake Bay, throughout the bay and its tributaries around this time. Secondly, what makes me believe that this fish is alewife is also the method of capture. Alewives are infamous for running into fishermen's line and becoming entangled. Many of them during this period of time will be caught because they were snagged while swimming recklessly near lines...
> 
> ...


providing some photos that compare some key characteristics of the fish;
alewive(LY, alewive, menhaden, Pogy, Bugmouth, Fat-Back):









Croaker(hardhead):









"Key Distinguishing Markings:
Chin with 3-5 pairs of small barbells and 5 pores.
Caudal fin double concave.
Body is elongate and somewhat compressed.
Dorsal fin deeply notched, with 10 spines in the anterior portion and 1 spine and 26-30 soft rays in the posterior portion.
Upper dorsal side with numerous brassy spots that from wavy bars (less distinct in large individuals)"
(from DNR)


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## Got 'em (May 13, 2009)

Windrift00 said:


> Got a few smaller ones, and more perch. Mayhaps you're correct.


it's very possible you may have caught a handful of smaller croaker. that would be awesome to hear they are coming up.

Perch and alewives are common catch around this time of year. 
I've posted some photos that may help with identification.

Croakers also croak!


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## Windrift00 (Jun 4, 2011)

Got 'em said:


> it's very possible you may have caught a handful of smaller croaker. that would be awesome to hear they are coming up.
> 
> Perch and alewives are common catch around this time of year.
> I've posted some photos that may help with identification.
> ...


Some did croak. But then again, so did the freaking catfish we were catching. Anyway, you're correct. All the Alewife I've caught in the past didn't have spots. Thanks.


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## kayak456 (Jun 5, 2012)

its a menhaeden. no offense but if other fisherman cant tell what fish it is, the reports are useless


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## Getnbent (May 2, 2010)

That looks like bait to me.


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## timekeeper (Apr 11, 2009)

Its absolutely an elewife been using them for crab bait for many years and also for cut bait when I can't get spot


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## jigmeister (Feb 23, 2013)

Got 'em said:


> with all due respect, in my honest opinion, the picture looks to reveal that the fish is indeed in fact a Alewife(read: LY) or commonly known as Atlantic menhaden or bunker.
> 
> Great bait for rockfish and other predatory fish around the area. Alewives can be found in Chesapeake Bay, throughout the bay and its tributaries around this time. Secondly, what makes me believe that this fish is alewife is also the method of capture. Alewives are infamous for running into fishermen's line and becoming entangled. Many of them during this period of time will be caught because they were snagged while swimming recklessly near lines...
> 
> ...


An alewife is a herring, totally different species . It is a type of river herring, just like the blueback. Get your facts straight. A "bunker" is a menhaden


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## jigmeister (Feb 23, 2013)

timekeeper said:


> Its absolutely an elewife been using them for crab bait for many years and also for cut bait when I can't get spot


No such thing as an "elewife" dude


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## jigmeister (Feb 23, 2013)

Alewife


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## jigmeister (Feb 23, 2013)

Bunker


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## Windrift00 (Jun 4, 2011)

Bunker and Alewife are both used to describe The Atlantic menhaden.


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## Kam (Apr 30, 2013)

Windrift00 said:


> Let's try this picture thing.


That is definitely an alewife, no doubt about it. But if you don't believe me, go ahead and cook it and let me know how it taste. You should have chunked him up and thrown him back out there to catch a nice rock, I'm sure they weren't far behind.


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## 9 rock (Nov 30, 2008)

Bingo.


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## jigmeister (Feb 23, 2013)

Kam said:


> That is definitely an alewife, no doubt about it. But if you don't believe me, go ahead and cook it and let me know how it taste. You should have chunked him up and thrown him back out there to catch a nice rock, I'm sure they weren't far behind.


It's a bunker


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## jigmeister (Feb 23, 2013)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alewife

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menhaden

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blueback_herring


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## timekeeper (Apr 11, 2009)

In southern MD ask a crusty waterman for bunker and you'll get laughed at


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## cnerem (Dec 29, 2011)

timekeeper said:


> In southern MD ask a crusty waterman for bunker and you'll get laughed at


Very true haha i only hear ly called bunker in OC


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## jigmeister (Feb 23, 2013)

Go north and all you will hear is pogy. I'm just giving you the facts.


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## jigmeister (Feb 23, 2013)

timekeeper said:


> In southern MD ask a crusty waterman for bunker and you'll get laughed at


I grew up in southern MD. and crabbed for years. Yes, they call lys (ell-wise)


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## Kam (Apr 30, 2013)

QUOTE=jigmeister;779224]It's a bunker[/QUOTE]

Ok, without going into too much back and forth, technically you may be correct but colloquially LY, Bunker and Medhaden are interchangeable especially being the end result is the same. Go up to Anglers and ask for a bag of bunker and a bag of LY and I bet you $1 they will tell you or give you the same thing. 

And since we are on wikipedia please refer to the last part of this:

History of the Names
Menhaden- comes from the Native American word Munnawhatteaug which means "that which manures" (fertilizer). The Native Americans would use the menhaden to fertilize their crops.
American Sardine- in the 1800s Americans would prepare and consume the menhaden like the European sardine.
Pogy- comes from the Native American word Pauhagen or Pookagan which holds the same meaning as Munnawhatteaug.
Bony-fish, Hard-head- describes the structure of the fish.
White-fish- used to describe North American fresh-water fish.
Mossbunker- comes form the Dutch word Marsbanker that translates to horse mackerel, which is a similar looking fish found in the Netherlands. The Dutch colonists began reusing the name to describe the menhaden.
Bug-fish, Bug-head- the name comes from the presence of a parasitic crustacean (Cymothoa pregustator) that is found in the mouth of the menhaden due to the fact that the menhaden swim with their mouth open.
Fat-back- used to describe the oily flesh found on the menhaden.
Yellow-tail, Yellow-tailed shad, Green-tail- used to describe the tint of the caudal fin.
Shad, Alewife, and Herring- terms representing the herring family have come to be used to describe the menhaden.


jigmeister said:


> It's a bunker


Colloquially LY, Bunker and Medhaden are interchangeable especially being the end result is the same. Go up to Anglers and ask for a bag of bunker and a bag of LY and I bet you $1 they will tell you or give you the same thing. 

And since we are on wikipedia please refer to the last part of this:


*******************
***********


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## Kam (Apr 30, 2013)

Not sure how my post got all jacked up but here is the link for reference.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_menhaden


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## jigmeister (Feb 23, 2013)

Already provided the link


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## Kam (Apr 30, 2013)

jigmeister said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alewife
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menhaden
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blueback_herring


Actually you didn't provide this link. Check again.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_menhaden


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## kayak456 (Jun 5, 2012)

up north is bunker. in the bay its elwy. down south its pogy


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## jigmeister (Feb 23, 2013)

kayak456 said:


> up north is bunker. in the bay its elwy. down south its pogy


Gonna have to take you to school son : http://www.whiteghostcharters.com/articles/article/7365452/139314.htm


Pogies for Monster Sized Stripers

Each spring, inside Narragansett Bay, in Rhode Island, the menhaden or pogy's, as they are known locally, migrate into our bay system and move into the smaller bays and rivers that make up Narragansett Bay itself. During some years the numbers of these oily baitfish can be huge and in other years they can be hard to find. Finding them however, and using them as bait to fool some of the monster sized stripers that follow them into the bay can be worth the effort you put in to capture them.

The best time to find menhaden is very early in the morning before the sun rises and the boat traffic gets too heavy. Pogy's don't like a lot of boat traffic and will sound or go deeper down in the water column to escape the noise and vibration that boats cause as they leave a cove, harbor or river system. Unless they are being chased by fish from beneath that will cause them to circle tightly into a ball, you will only see them "flip" here and there. Once you see one, that is a sure indication that there is many more below the surface.

There are two ways to get your bait. One is to use a cast-net. A cast net is made of monofiliment and comes in a wide array of sizes from four feet in diameter to over 12-feet. The large you go in size, the harder it is to make a good and accurate cast with them. It takes quite a bit of practice to become proficient with a cast net. Cast nets are also better when the water is shallow, that being ten feet or less. The deeper the water is the more time it will take for the net to reach the bottom and encircle the pogy's inside the net.

The second method is the most popular one. It involves the use of a weighted treble hook in sizes 6/0 to 9/0. The hook shank will usually have a molded on lead weight to give you casting distance to reach the schools on the surface or below. A better method is to make your own "snag rig" by attaching a one to three ounce sinker at the bottom of a leader, then by tying two dropper-loop-knots up the leader at six to eight inch intervals. On each loop off the leader you loop in a 7/0 or 8/0 treble hook. Now you have two trebles in a row with the sinker on the bottom of the leader. This accomplishes two things: first, the lead is no longer part of the hook and without that extra weight, you are less likely to tear or rig the flesh of the pogy causing it to free itself, two, you have two shots at snagging the fish instead of just one. I also like to crush down the barbs on the hooks so getting them off is easier once you get them to the boat. If you keep a tight line and steady pressure on the fish, you will land most of them and the damage to the fish will be less severe and they will last in your live-well a lot longer.

Once a pogy is hooked and brought to the boat, look to see how badly it is bleeding. If it is bleeding a lot, place it in a 5-gallon bucket of water to bleed-out first before you go and put it in your live-well. Nothing will kill a live-well full of pogy's as having the water full of blood. Pogy's have the natural ability to stop their bleeding in a very short time. The cleaner your live-well water is, the long they will live in it.

When you find a school of fish on the surface, you should cast beyond it as far as possible. Let your rig sink to the bottom before you begin the snagging process. A lot of anglers simply cast out their snag rig and immediately begin trying to snag their bait. The problem is most of the fish are below and deeper than your rig is getting. When you do this you only pull the rig above the fish and snag fewer fish and waste a lot of energy in the process. If you let your rig sink to the bottom and then reel up slowing, you will feel the fish bounce off of the line if the school is packed tight. That is the time to try snagging them. It's much more efficient and it saves time in getting your bait.

For tackle I prefer using a rod that is made of fiberglass and not graphite. Why? Simply because the fiberglass rod has a lot of forgiveness to it and isn't as stiff as the graphite ones. That bit of give will help you land a lot more bait. Graphite has little or no give to it and the tendency is to try and get the bait to the boat as quick as possible. When you do this you run the risk of pulling the hook out of the bait. A fiberglass rod is much more practical for snagging those pogy's.

In Rhode Island, the best time to find and fish pogies inside Narragansett Bay is in the spring time during the months of May and June. In some years the fishing will go on right throughout the summer but not usually. It takes an awful lot of menhaden to keep the fishery going for that long.

When pogy's are the predominate baitfish and they are hard to come by, don't forget that there are many types of soft plastic's on the market today that are good imitations of menhaden and will work for you if you try them. Big plastic swim baits, big Fin-S Fish in the 10-inch size, the new hard bodied swim baits that have become so popular all over the country, especially in the freshwater fishery. These baits are just as effective in saltwater as they are in freshwater. So you have a wide range of lure to choose from.

When pogy's are available, they are going to give you the best chance of getting that monster sized striped bass that you've been looking for. The will work in shallow water as well as in deep water. So give them a try this year. Good luck and good fishing.

Captain Jim White


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## jigmeister (Feb 23, 2013)

All I know is that a true Alewife is a species of anadromus herring, just like the blueback. I have caught plenty of them in my almost 60 years on this Earth.They are both delicious to eat, either pickled or smoked, unlike the menhaden that was pictured. Very easy to tell the difference.


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## bloodworm (Jan 5, 2007)

Lmao


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