# buying a muzzleloader



## Fishinbuddy

I need some tips on buying a muzzleloader. I am normally fishing the week of muzzleloading but our fishing week has been moved back so I am looking to buy a muzzleloader. Problem is, I don't know enough about them to make an educated purchase. I don't want to break the bank but I want something that is accurate and easy loading. What tips can you give me?

Thanks


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## RuddeDogg

Get yourself the starter kit from Black Diamond. That has everything you need.


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## oldsnow

Made in the U.S.A.

http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/muzzleloaders.php


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## SmoothLures

Get a .50 cal, a pound of loose Pyrodex, 2 or 3 packs of different bullet brands and weights. Get saboted, don't waste your money on the Powerbelt, they're easy loading for a reason, they don't have solid seals and are known for inaccuracy. Also you'll want one fired by 209 shotgun primers. Make sure you get the primers pre-purchase, as they're hard to find. 

Start with charges of 70 or 80 grains, moving up to 130 depending on your ML and desired distance. When you get good groups, stop and use that load. Clean after every shot.


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## chriscustom

*Cva*

I shoot a CVA Buckhunter I paid 149.00 for and I use 295 hollow tip Power Belts. It shoots 2" group at 100 yards with 100g of powder. I put the smack down on a 19 1/2" 8point last year at 75yards. he went 30 yards and that was it.Buggered him up pretty good.


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## Rockfish1

SmoothLures said:


> Get saboted, don't waste your money on the Powerbelt, they're easy loading for a reason, they don't have solid seals and are known for inaccuracy. Also you'll want one fired by 209 shotgun primers. Make sure you get the primers pre-purchase, as they're hard to find.
> 
> Start with charges of 70 or 80 grains, moving up to 130 depending on your ML and desired distance. When you get good groups, stop and use that load. Clean after every shot.



I have to disagree with you on the power belts... I had a TC 45 cal Encore barrel that shot most excellent with them... 100gr of pyrodex was deadly accurate out to 200 yards...

can't argue with any of the rest of your advice though...


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## RuddeDogg

I have a TC Thunder Hawk in .54 cal and I use 350 and 375 gr pre lubed maxi balls. I like it because each pellet is 60 gr so I don't have to use 3 pellets like the .50 cals do. Saves on powder in the long run. I do have sabot rounds that range from 275 gr to 430 gr and use them when shooting for distance, but around here I don't shoot more than 70 yards. I also have a TC Hawken in .50 cal and Renegade in .54 cal and those by far are my favorites. I'm a traditional kinda guy.


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## surfchunker

I have a TC Black Diamond and it shoots great .... and buy 777 pellets .... way easier than messin with loose powder ..... two pellets and the TC shockwave bullets .... get the new ones with the yellow super glide sabots ..... It shoots a little over 1" @ 100 yards .... I tried the power belts and it was like I was standing back there and throwing the bullets at the target .... gave them away that day at the range ......


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## SmoothLures

I think the powerbelts depend on your gun. Some people have them shoot excellent, some fly everywhere. If they work, use them for sure, but I've heard of too many people having poor groups to recommend them, myself included. 

Only reason I recommend lose powder is because the pellets can have -5 to + 7 grains of powder from what the charge is (ie 50 grains). That'll effect accuracy, but maybe they've become more consistent in the last year or two.


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## surfchunker

black powder goes by volume not weight .... bad thing about loose powder is you can't tell how packed it is ... way more chances for screw ups .... give me pellets anyday ..... as tight and consistant my gun is there is no varable as I can tell .......


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## RuddeDogg

That may work in your gun but for me, I will take a traditional muzzle loader especially a Hawken or Renegade over ANY inline out there including my Thunder Hawk. I have yet to have any problems with my Hawken or Renegade. You will find both good and bad with each.


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## surfchunker

*trad. vs inline*

I've never had a problem with mine but cleaning an inline is so much easier .... and God forbid if something happens .... round doesn't fire .... wet powder or whatever .... getting the bullet out is a piece of cake .... remove breach plug and push it out ..... can't do that with a Trad muzzleloader ...... can a trad ML shoot as good as an inline .... heck yes ....


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## Fishinbuddy

Thanks for the replies. I didn't realize that muzzleloaders were that accurate at long distances. Someone mentioned a 200 yard shot  Most places I hunt are fairly thick and the longest lane I have is about 80 yards. Thanks again.


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## RuddeDogg

surfchunker said:


> I've never had a problem with mine but cleaning an inline is so much easier .... and God forbid if something happens .... round doesn't fire .... wet powder or whatever .... getting the bullet out is a piece of cake .... remove breach plug and push it out ..... can't do that with a Trad muzzleloader ...... can a trad ML shoot as good as an inline .... heck yes ....


No argument there. In-lines are a heck of alot easier to clean, operate and maintain. I would recomend to anyone getting into black powder to get an in-line first and then go from there.


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## gonefishin757

*Inline!*

go with inline first. make sure u get 209primer. CVA good allround fair price. Thompson Center real nice good amount of money. bottom line is in muzzleload game U GET WHAT U PAY FOR! just rember that.


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## surfchunker

gone fishin said it well ... the 209 primers are great .... beats caps .... but most ML shoot well today ..... a CVA is a great gun at a great price


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## Shooter

I have had a few in-lines and they all shoot well enough at 100 yards to kill any deer, now after a while and when ya start getting picky as some of us older farts been known to be :redface: you can start playing around with different charges and bullet types. I have seen some of the guys I use to hunt with complain about a 2" group at 100 yards, now if your just shooting paper fuss away but I aint never seen a deer not go down because it was hit 1" to the left or right.

Being the old fart I am, I went back to the ol cap and ball  I just happen to find a Browning (yes years ago Browning made Muzzler Loaders) 54 cal. round ball shooter. It's long, it's heavy, it's hard to clean but with 115 grains of powder and a 54 cal ball don't make the mistake of getting with-in 100 yards + or -.


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## oldsnow

Fishenbuddy, if you can shoot smokeless powder in the state you live in, I would look at a Savage (smokeless) muzzleloader. No cleanup after shooting, no big cloud of smoke after you pull the triger and a 200+ Yd. muzzleloader . The price is a little salty but worth it in the end.


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## Finger_Mullet

*Powerbelts*

I have been shooting them since they came out. At 75 yards the hole in the paper just gets a little bigger with each shot. They shoot great in my gun and in just about everyone else I can think of that shoots them.

I shoot a CVA in-line. It is a nickle plated Hunter Bolt Magnum. I shoot 90 grain of Pyrodex select and a powerbelt that I can't remember the weight of. 
I will check when I get home.

I had a Knight that would not hit a piece of paper every time at 50 yards. I sent it back to Knight 2 different times. Finally I sold it and bought the CVA. I bought it because it was cheap, $180 shipped, and I figured I had bad luck with muzzleloaders and I hated to sink a pile of money in another one that would not shoot. 

I have no complaints on the CVA and it is at least 6 years old now and has put down a pile of deer. All with the powerbelt.

Good luck. 

Darin


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## Ed K

I tried the PowerBelts in my gun this weekend and will be giving them away. I had been shooting about 1 1/2" groups with the TC Shockwaves put a power belt in 3 shots and none on the paper, went back to the TC's. I also tried the White Hot powder that stuff is great 3 damp patches and it's clean none of the smell or residue that Pyrodex has.


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## chriscustom

*Ammo*

when changing ammo you need to stay with the same weight. Usually it'll give the same results. I shoot Power Belts and have no problem with them. I want to try the Barns Bullet, Does anyone know anything about them?


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## Finger_Mullet

*Barnes*

Are you talking about the Red Hots? All copper? Huge hollow point?

My buddy used them for a few years. he liked them but they were extremely hard to load in his Knight. He switched to powerbelts and has not looked back. 

I have a pack of them at home. There may be one or 2 missing. Knight sent me 2 10 packs when I sent my Knight back to the factory because it would not shoot accurately. They suggested I shoot 110 grains of Pyrodex Select and the red hots.


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## Ed K

chriscustom said:


> when changing ammo you need to stay with the same weight. Usually it'll give the same results. I shoot Power Belts and have no problem with them. I want to try the Barns Bullet, Does anyone know anything about them?


They were within 10 grains of each other which should have only made a small difference. I am no beginner at this game I've been shooting these things since they first opened a muzzleloader season, started with an old flint lock shooting round balls and conical bullets. I shot the Barnes Red Hots when they first came out, both styles the large hollow point and the small hollow point they did ok on both paper and live targets. I hand load the Barnes TSX for my rifles they are top notch bullets.


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## chriscustom

*Me too*

Yeah, I also started with a side lock, couldnt hit the broad side of a bard with it. I never hunted with a rifle and had problems with iron sights, still do to some point.Thank God they allow us to use scopes or I'd still be bow hunting through muzzle season.


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## Finger_Mullet

*Bullets*

All bullets do not fly the same. You really need to shoot at least a 3 shot group to see how tight the group is to see if the bullets shoot good in your gun. Not just go by the point of impact based with a gun sighted in for a totally different bullet. 

I shoot the 295 grain powerbelt. It has the same point of impact at 75 yards with 90 grains of Pyrodex Select, 80 grains, 70 grain, 100 grains, 60 grains. Believe me I tried it. I am sure at greater distances the point of impact would change.

I can also shoot maxi balls and it hits within this group. However I have another gun that will not even hit the paper with the slightest adjustment in powder or a different bullet. Guns are funny. Some love anything you put it in, some hate everything except 1 load in particular. 

If I rememebr correctly, Powerbelts are the number one selling bullet of all time. I like them. A pile of others like them. Some hate them for various reasons. Shoot what gives you the results that you need. Not what everyone else shoots. I would shoot a round ball if it was the only thing my gun would shoot accurately. 

Pretty much any modern projectile designed for muzzleloders will perform well on deer sized game. You just need to be able to hit what you are aming at. 

Darin


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## RuddeDogg

I started with an inline. Traded a Mossberg 500a combo for a .54cal TC Thunder Hawk. Got eveything with it, rounds, pellets the whole shooting match. It was set up for top hats which I really like. 209's are great but, ALL of my rifles are set up for top hats so I figure why change. It works for me. I would like to get a Kentuky rifle and 1861 Springfield repro. I'd like to get some pistols as well. Had a deal set up for the Howdah Pistol but that fell through. I'll get them eventually.


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## Adam

TC's Omega(what I have) or the new TC Triumph are hard to beat. You might as well spend the money on it. I shoot 100gr of Triple-7 and a 250gr Shockwave; off a bench it'll shoot in the same hole at 100yds. Taken 3 Does this year at 65, 82, and 110yds(by laser rangefinder), and it set em all down in their tracks. Great weapons.

Got invited to hunt in Greene County tomorrow, takin the .30-06 for its first test-drive.


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