# SURVEY - what would you change about an Abu 6500?



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

First off, that title is a bit misleading, but it's the best I could do to keep it short, but interesting.

This thread is an advanced topic, and by its very nature, will disqualify many. I want to hear from lots of people, but I want to intentionally direct this thread in a specific direction.

Whom this thread favors:

- Avid fishermen
- Baitcaster experts
- Abu Garcia 6500 experts (throughout the model years, as far back as you care to go)
- Reel repairmen
- Distance casting experts
- Insatiable tinkerers
- Gripers (if you need to bitch about something Abu 6500 related, here is your platform)

Whom this thread favors not:

- Those who are not mechanically inclined
- Those who do not use baitcasting reels
- Those who have never been Abu Garcia 6500 owners (or users, at the very least)


Now, to add meat to the discussion table - let's suppose that somebody wanted to build the "ultimate" Abu Garcia 6500 reel. You can do anything you want, with one small caveat: you must use the basic internals of an Abu Garcia 6500. They can be of any vintage, but they must be compatible in part, or in whole, with an operating (modern) 6500 reel. (or made to work easily) They must still be relatively available. You cannot modify the "guts". This includes chaning material properties, fabricating replacements, etc. Everything outside of the internals is fair game.

Examples of what I am looking for:

How to make the reel more service friendly?
Better material selection for durable components? (frame, pins, handle, etc)
Better fit
Placement and ergonomics
Improved reel mounting

Etc...

What I am NOT looking for:

Lever drag system (that would be awesome, but not doable with standard parts!)
Kryptonite (or whatever else) gears
Mag-Lev spool stabilization


I would like everyone who reads this to approach the subject as the would a serious product survey - as if you knew your opinion would actually be used for something valuable.

Full disclosure:

I am NOT a student
This is NOT a commercial venture
I do not, at this time, stand to benefit from this financially, in ANY way
I DO have a purpose in asking, and not just to hear myself talk


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## bigjim5589 (Jul 23, 2005)

Would you also include the 6600 versions in this discussion?


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## OBX_Rat (Jul 12, 2007)

My "ultimate" Abu Garcia 6500 reel would be a Surfcaster 6500
CT frame is a must
Floating shaft
Abec 5 or higher grade bearings
A light weight "V" spool would be nice
5500 Mag Elite C3 right side plate
6500 C3 Sports Rocket left side plate
A quick change brake block system would also be nice


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

bigjim5589 said:


> Would you also include the 6600 versions in this discussion?


Yes


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

old style Blue Yonder static magged ... I think they're purdy .... but I have quite a few 6500's ... favorite levelwind one is and old silver ProRocket CS with 6 bearings, i did the dual levelwind bearing mod, and got the big white cog with a bearing in it too ... and a pair of #5 spool bearings ... it flat out bombs stuff


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## ReelKingin (Aug 3, 2009)

solid7 said:


> I do not, at this time, stand to benefit from this financially, in ANY way
> QUOTE]
> 
> "AT this time"...Before I make my comment, what does that mean in the sentence above? Curious


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## bigjim5589 (Jul 23, 2005)

I have a RH 6600 C5 Mag-X. If I can't change the guts, the only thing I can think of would be the extra bearing on the level wind worm shaft , & the one plastic gear. I've done this on other ABU reels just as surfchunker has mentioned. For the fishing I do with it, upgrading spool bearings really serves no great purpose for me. The factory bearings work just fine after cleaning & re-lube with a better oil. I don't try to cast any great distance, so any added precision would not help me, unless it resulted in a smoother reel. I guess overall precision could always be better to improve smoothness, but that would likely add greatly to the price, and would get into changing the guts. Not that it's not a reasonably smooth reel anyway. A lighter yet stronger spool would be nice too, which I guess would be getting into some hi-tech material and would add to the price. But again, for me not really a necessity. Otherwise I'm very happy with it the way it is.


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## smacks fanatic (Oct 16, 2010)

ReelKingin said:


> solid7 said:
> 
> 
> > I do not, at this time, stand to benefit from this financially, in ANY way
> ...


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

ReelKingin said:


> solid7 said:
> 
> 
> > I do not, at this time, stand to benefit from this financially, in ANY way
> ...


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## bigjim5589 (Jul 23, 2005)

I know a guy like that too! He was a machinist who designed, built & repaired industrial pumps for a living & took an Abel fly reel & copied it for his own use. The Abel belonged to a friend of his. I guess a lot of us could have such ideas if we had that type of background & resources!


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

The only real thing a 6500CT needs is a FULL SIZE SPEED BULLET with an attached clicker gear. Mags are optional....


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

AbuMike said:


> The only real thing a 6500CT needs is a FULL SIZE SPEED BULLET with an attached clicker gear. Mags are optional....


When you say an attached clicker gear... Are you talking about a gear attached to the speed bullet? Or are you talking about something similar to the conversion that we do to open up the ID of the levelwind gear on the spool? (to clear the small OD on the speed bullet)


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## Hawk (Feb 19, 2004)

My biggest problem with the design of these reels is all of the critical components are so easily infiltrated by moisture and debris (sand).
Seal 'em up better!


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Here are some of the kinds of ideas that I was having...

1) a way to make the reel serviceable without tools
2) reduce the size of the frame
3) more rigid frame (one-piece, change material)
4) eliminate need for spool adjust on both sides (requires more precision in both frame and spool)
5) lower distance from spool to reel seat (as low as I could possibly have it)
6) change placement of magnet (I prefer the forward placement, as on the Daiwa 7HT)
7) new "clicker" design - something more effiicient, and something I can actually hear on the beach (not necessarily a click)

Please, feel free to add to, or elaborate upon, those points...


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## rabbitdog2 (Aug 20, 2011)

I have 8 - 10 6500's. These reels have been fished hard in salt water for many years and preform almost as good as they did when I took them out of the box. A couple of these reels are 25yrs old and were bought new, most of them were bought at auctions. I picked up 2 last yr. new out of the box for $35 ea. All of these tweeks are going to turn a $100 reel into a $300 dollar reel. In no way do I want to offed anyone with my opinon and that's all it is is an opinion. The off the shelf 6500's do all I need. All i'm saying is if it aint broke don't fix it.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

rabbitdog2 said:


> All of these tweeks are going to turn a $100 reel into a $300 dollar reel.


No worries. I am not affiliated with Abu Garcia. The $100 reel will still be available.

To say that Abu has done well with keeping the reel in its price point is understatement. I'm looking to see what I, as a non-reel designer, can do to push the quality and performance envelope, without re-designing the basic system upon which the reel works.



rabbitdog2 said:


> In no way do I want to offed anyone with my opinon and that's all it is is an opinion. The off the shelf 6500's do all I need. All i'm saying is if it aint broke don't fix it.


In no way am I offended, nor do I think that the product is broke. However, the technology around the reel (i.e. - the rod) has evolved in the last 50 years, and the basic reel, has not. I am rather adventurous, and I just don't want to fish with my grandfather's reel. No offense to those who may have fished with my grandfather, of course...

My basic premise is not that the design is broke - just that there is lots of room for improvement. I just want to get different perspectives on that notion.


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## bigjim5589 (Jul 23, 2005)

ABU reels aren't broke. The design has been used for a long time because they work very well. But there are different configurations, which says that there are different ways in how they're used. I'm looking at this from a perspective of someone who rarely fishes the surf with one, and primarily uses it to cast lures. From other perspectives, I'm sure there could be many improvements that could be made.



> 1) a way to make the reel serviceable without tools


I could see this as a good idea for some, but to me it makes little difference. I've rarely had an issue where I needed such a feature. In the surf, with sand & salt I can understand a desire for it.



> 2) reduce the size of the frame


I'm not sure about this one, wouldn't reducing the frame size, basically give you the same result as say a 5600? I may not be thinking the same way you are?



> 3) more rigid frame (one-piece, change material)


If the result of this made the frame lighter & stronger, less maintenance, then yes, I could see the benefit.


> 4) eliminate need for spool adjust on both sides (requires more precision in both frame and spool)


Another feature I could see benefits in, it should result in a lighter weight & easier maintenance. Not sure if the higher cost for precision would offset the need for more parts or not.



> 5) lower distance from spool to reel seat (as low as I could possibly have it)


No comment on this. Personal preference I'm sure.



> 6) change placement of magnet (I prefer the forward placement, as on the Daiwa 7HT)


I've never used that Daiwa reel, so have no other preference. I've only used the ABU's with this feature.



> 7) new "clicker" design - something more effiicient, and something I can actually hear on the beach (not necessarily a click)


If I did more bait fishing I can concur. The reels I have with clickers are not very loud. But for the most part I'm casting lures with this size reel, so have little need for a clicker.

I would like to see a reel of this type in a lower gear ratio, like perhaps 4.0:1. Not sure if they ever made such an animal.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

bigjim5589 said:


> I'm not sure about this one, wouldn't reducing the frame size, basically give you the same result as say a 5600? I may not be thinking the same way you are?


Nope. The spool - and by extension - line capacity, stays the same. I would like to design a custom, smaller, frame, built around the spool, as small as I can make it. I like small reels, pure and simple. I don't like a reel the size of a soup can.



bigjim5589 said:


> Another feature I could see benefits in, it should result in a lighter weight & easier maintenance. Not sure if the higher cost for precision would offset the need for more parts or not.


Please note, I'm not suggesting a production variant, or even something offered up to the public. I'm talking about building a supercar. (with all of the ideas and feedback that I could gather to use as design criteria, going forward, rather than in hindsight)




bigjim5589 said:


> No comment on this. Personal preference I'm sure.


I don't think people realize just how unnatural the spool position really is. After all, "it's always been like that". 

Anyone who has ever fished a low profile reel would know the difference in feel, and I would think, most would prefer it. You certainly have a leverage advantage (with less chance of thumb slip and burn) on the lower spool configuration.



bigjim5589 said:


> I've never used that Daiwa reel, so have no other preference. I've only used the ABU's with this feature.


As a secondary, a knobby mag in the usual position eliminates the clicker on an Abu reel. You would have to place a custom knobby yourself ahead of the spool tensioner, and if you have a levelwind reel, well... let's just say you will have to choose between the levelwind or the forward knobby mag. I just don't like having to choose. I really like being able to palm the reel when adjusting the mag. (again, refer to the Daiwa)




bigjim5589 said:


> If I did more bait fishing I can concur. The reels I have with clickers are not very loud. But for the most part I'm casting lures with this size reel, so have little need for a clicker.


Always a divided subject. Many of the drum and striper fisher fellas won't settle for a reel without a clicker. I'm not one of them, but I've come to appreciate the place of one. On the other hand, I tend not to use it, because standing between 2 or 3 rods, I just can't hear a clicker before my peripheral vision picks up a rod bending. But that's just me... (I would put a clicker on if I could find a way to make a louder device)



bigjim5589 said:


> I would like to see a reel of this type in a lower gear ratio, like perhaps 4.0:1. Not sure if they ever made such an animal.


Gearing is an easy part of the equation. Not sure if Abu ever made a low gear that low for 6500 reels, but I know that the 7 class reels have that gearing available.

Just a semi-educated guess - but I believe that pitch diameter of the gears used in the 6500 reels might be on the verge of viability for a that ratio. (to be able to make a gear is one thing - to make a smooth meshing gear is another, altogether)


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

I do ABU reel upgrades all the time but I can't think of many design changes I would implement. I can live with most of the standard factory parts.....I normally upgrade the bearings a notch, add a bearing to the idler gear, add a power handle and load it with a carbon matrix drag (and cal's grease).


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Things I HATE in Abu 6500 CS/CT reels...

1) The sliding magnet adjustment - I hate the design, the execution, and the (sometimes) difficulty of re-assembly. It reeks of cheap and flimsy. And it gets bumped ALL THE DAMN TIME.
2) Double knobs for spool tension adjustment. (lack of parts precision)
3) Chrome plated brass. I just hate plating.
4) Size of reel frame (as previously noted)


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

I wish 6500 had a reel clamp setup like larger Abu's

Conventional Rods that I build typically do not have reels seats and I clamp the reels on due to a greater level of comfort for my paws

I mostly use 6500's on seven-eight foot popping rods, although I have one on a full length All Star 1507 for light surf application it will chuck the heck out of a 5 oz stingsilver.


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## rabbitdog2 (Aug 20, 2011)

Gosh Solid7 I didn't realize you had such a distain for the ABU6500. Instead of bashing the product that has preformed well for so long. Why don't you just go to a different manufacture with all the features you want?


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## DrumintheSuds (Nov 19, 2007)

IMO a reel is the least important piece of the equation. Atleast in my fishing it is......


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

rabbitdog2 said:


> Gosh Solid7 I didn't realize you had such a distain for the ABU6500. Instead of bashing the product that has preformed well for so long. Why don't you just go to a different manufacture with all the features you want?


This thread wasn't started with the intent of tickling the fanboys... It was intended to be a design challenge - to myself, and anyone that wants to participate. With 60 years of hindsight to reflect on, and the reality that you can't get what you ideally want in a production environment, due to necessary compromises, and budgetary constraints - I think this reel is ripe for this type of challenge.

I like the product, but would like to develop a reel (for myself) that allows me to use a multitude of available parts, while only re-designing the things that aren't part of the mechanical system. (i.e. - the moving parts) And to incorporate feedback from others who WOULD change certain things, if they COULD.

I didn't bash the product, I pointed out what I don't like. You can choose to focus on what I said I don't like, at the peril of ignoring that fact that whatever ISN'T mentioned as a dislike, is something that I DO like. Or, you can offer a constructive criticism - both positive and negative - which is what I would prefer.

It isn't personal, Rabbit, and like I tell my kids, it isn't that serious...


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

DrumintheSuds said:


> IMO a reel is the least important piece of the equation. Atleast in my fishing it is......


I like good quality things. Cars, women, fishing gear. Fishing is great, and I catch plenty. But I prefer my fishing experience to be almost spiritual, and I don't mind going to lengths to make it so. That's part of the fun of having a hobby, sometimes, is not worrying so much about practicality, and just doing something because it makes you happy.

Hobbies aren't a logical affair...


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Garboman said:


> I wish 6500 had a reel clamp setup like larger Abu's


I haven't used a larger Abu, but would that be similar to the type employed on AVET SX reels?


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

ABU reel clamps are similar to Penn 4/0 reel clamps they use Wing nuts and carriage bolts that fit into reel foot frame along with a metal clamp base bent in a u shape

I would recommend getting a 7000C (Sweden model, not current China reels)
put ceramic bearings in it and smoothie washers and take off the level wind and either do the pillar modification to the frame or leave it stock with out the level wind.

A tuned 7000 will cast just as smooth as the 6500 if you are using 5 oz and up for weight and will hold 180 yards more of 14 pound test 420 yards if you fill it to the brim versus 240 yards for the 6500 and lack of line capacity is one of the issues I have with 6500's especially when people are fishing for Red Drum. I just tighten up most of the sideways slop in the 7000 and a thirty year old reel will cast just a far as all the magged out machined reels of the last few years, drag leaves a bit on the table but that is what a thumb is for...

I usually fish 17 or 20 pound test on the 7000's but I have fished a great deal with 14 pound when trying for a bit more distance. 7000 is a bit more robust than the 6500 which I use mostly as a puppy drum/plugging type reel.


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## WNCRick (Sep 24, 2007)

The only thing i'd change is the clicker, requires too much tension to set it off, spooks fast moving fish in my experience. Other than that i'm happy. I have big hands so the reel height feels right to me. 
Rick


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## luckyOC (Apr 3, 2010)

Line capacity, better frame (sits lower, single piece, etc).... most have been mentioned here ... already.

I may be mistaken, but a company already did most of this stuff described in this thread... AND im pretty happy with it so far....


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## mylobass (Jan 29, 2012)

Put the bait clicker back near the center of the left sideplate. Bring back the dual cast control knobs. Bring back the tougher chromed brass frame. Dual bearing levelwind. Bearing in the idler cog. Bring back the nostalgic styling and drop the stupid pointed drag star. Oh........ That reels ready available I'll just call hookless.com.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

luckyOC said:


> Line capacity, better frame (sits lower, single piece, etc).... most have been mentioned here ... already.
> 
> I may be mistaken, but a company already did most of this stuff described in this thread... AND im pretty happy with it so far....


I don't have an Akios Shuttle reel. I have some parts, but no complete reel. (will someday post on how to convert an Akios shuttle frame to accept Abu Garcia sideplates, as well as a mod that allows dual use)

I am in the process of designing a new body on the Abu reel. Not sure how far it will go, but I've got a decent start. Maybe not for everybody, but I know at least one person that will appreciate it.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

I'd be the wrong one to ask about this,but going to inject my opinion anyway,as this is a public fishing forum... 

I'm a fisherman,generally speaking I fish for fish that are sizable and can run,depend on a good drag,and like a reel than can cast and take a bunch of abuse and "heat" from a fish.. A 6500 with the same guts wouldn't make the grade for me.. Clicker is not loud enough,drag flat out sucks,line capasity is suspect unless you use 14 or braid.. The only catagory that the reel fits with guts as is, is castability... If you were to take a 7000 and modify the drag,and increase clicker noise,that'd be me...

If you're fishing for pompano,seamullet,blowtoads,stripers,and the like,you need neither line capasity,nor a great drag,or reel capable of handling "heat",so I guess my complaint would be null and void then...


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## Garboman (Jul 22, 2010)

"If you were to take a 7000 and modify the drag,and increase clicker noise,that'd be me..."

While you are machining these beauties hows about setting up a new Drag for the ABU 8600
these babies cast just like 6500's except they are noisy and whiny sort of like old Garbo

Been catching and Tube Drum DD?


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

Drumdum said:


> A 6500 with the same guts wouldn't make the grade for me.


First things first... I start with what I got lots of extras to burn on.

Next project - pending initial success - is a 7 class reel in a compact frame.


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## psychonerdbeast (Sep 29, 2010)

if you want to see an improved abu 6500, take a look at an akios 656scm shuttle.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Garboman said:


> "If you were to take a 7000 and modify the drag,and increase clicker noise,that'd be me..."
> 
> While you are machining these beauties hows about setting up a new Drag for the ABU 8600
> these babies cast just like 6500's except they are noisy and whiny sort of like old Garbo
> ...


 As you know,liked my black 9000c's,casted great,although and 9000 or 8600 had a high spool difficult to get my thumb around it,especially when wet,7000 perfect size..

Ain't gone in the tube yet,but put one on the beach the other day..



solid7 said:


> First things first... I start with what I got lots of extras to burn on.
> 
> Next project - pending initial success - is a 7 class reel in a compact frame.


 When you get the 7 class done,would like to see pics.. Carbon drag,good casting reel,good clicker,it'd probably outdo anything on the market today in that size range..


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

psychonerdbeast said:


> if you want to see an improved abu 6500, take a look at an akios 656scm shuttle.


I already have. Like I said in one of my previous posts, I have a converted Shuttle frame that accepts Abu sideplates. And I have a mod ( that allows BOTH the Akios and Abu sideplates.

The Akios reel made significant improvements, but it's still based on the same model of "economy" as the Abu. Still too big, and is basically a 6500 v2.0. And, the shuttle has its own flaws... (definitely not saying that it isn't a good reel, though)


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## smacks fanatic (Oct 16, 2010)

Hawk said:


> My biggest problem with the design of these reels is all of the critical components are so easily infiltrated by moisture and debris (sand).
> Seal 'em up better!


I actually used air conditioning tape strips to seal up the cracks between the reel plate, and the actual reel on my abu 7000


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

smacks fanatic said:


> I actually used air conditioning tape strips to seal up the cracks between the reel plate, and the actual reel on my abu 7000


I don't know every possible condition of use for a fishing reel - but the glaringly obvious for me, is the gap between the spool and the frame. If you have one point of intrusion, it almost seems defeatist to try to seal the rest. (provided they aren't just gaping holes providing a direct path to the internals)

Please clarify... The condition you speak of is the reason why I disassemble (ALL of) my reels on a yearly basis, and paint the insides with grease.


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## chris storrs (Aug 25, 2005)

spool shaft that wont bend would be nice(either thicker or stronger metal), clicker that is audible not only to K9s, a pinion gear that wont break in half would be cool,click adjust knob or something recessed kind of like a squall instead of slider mag, theres a whole lot id chance about a 6500 haha, theres quite a few really cool aftermarket ct frames around...


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