# Kings on Fluorocarbon and Circles



## sinker man (Jun 16, 2006)

Do any of you guys or gals have any experience catching kings on "tarpon leaders"?


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

No, but I caught a Tarpon on a mono leader once, with a circle hook. 

So I'd assume that if mono works for Tarpon, it'll probably work for Kings too. And if mono works, then flourocarbon will probably work too. But then again, I think Kings have sharper teeth than Tarpon do. So you might need some of that Jax Beach Pier 1/8" cable for Kings, I dunno.


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## BentHook (Dec 22, 2002)

A king mackeral will slice right thru mono.Even 100# mono. You could get lucky but i doubt it. 
We use single strand wire between 38 and 44 pound test off our pier down here with two treble hooks.


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## sinker man (Jun 16, 2006)

Seriously... asking a serious question here. Looking for answers from people who have been down that road before. Trust me when I say I know what the dentures of a king look like and where the cutting takes place with Tarpon. The reason for not posting this in the Open forum was to weed out the inexperienced answers. I know kings will slice 80 mono but I'm thinking 130 fluorocarbon. I know it has been done but I'm interested in how well it works statistically.


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## kingfish (Feb 28, 2004)

They will bite 130 easy, if you want to catch kings, use wire.......Kingfish


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

Probably be hard to find statistics for the simple reason that people tend to lean in the overkill direction when it comes to "big" fish. The bigger the fish, the bigger the worry of hooking one and losing it, the more the overkill. 

I can give you some statistics that may or may not be relative. I used to fish for bluefish with only wire leaders. Last year, I started using only mono (40lb), no more wire, and only circle hooks.

I would estimate that I probably lost one in a hundred fish due to the hook getting cut off. I have never landed a gut hooked a bluefish with circle hooks. I remember one day in particular last fall I caught about two dozen fish in a row, and never even had so much as a nick in the leader. 

I caught 4 bluefish today on 50lb mono leader with 2/0 octopus circle hooks. Not even a nick in the leader.

In my opinion, you don't need wire leader for bluefish unless you use "J" hooks, which the fish is going to swallow. If you fish for bluefish with mono and "J" hooks, you are going to have a lot of cut offs. I don't think the fish "cuts" the hook off - I think when the leader is in his mouth, he eventually chews it off; with circle hooks, the leader isn't in his mouth.

I also realize that the kings you'll be catching are a bit bigger than 2 to 3 lb bluefish, but I think if you want statistics, you'll probably have to roll your own because you won't find many brave fisherman who don't mind losing a king now and then in the name of experimentation.

Most people don't seem to understand that you don't need 50 lb test line to catch a 50 pound fish...


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## jettypark28 (Jun 23, 2006)

*Kingfish*

Is one big and "Super fast" fish, able to take out 200yd in seconds like "Surf" i have yet to meet anyone that use's mono leader for these guys....(boats or shore) The main reason for wire, is because of the way they hit a bait, most of the time they will hit the head of a bait. So it doesnt matter even when using a circle hook. And you do see alot of people using two hooks or more, because of the way they try to cut off the tail on most baitfish. I have also caught on off the beach (by mistake) and was able to bring a few in....But there have been many times, when the pole bent so fast and so hard, then nothing...i would get my sinker back but the leader was cut clean......(80 to 100lb leader) But seeing that you arent new to this game, try it out and give us a report.....(I won't change) because i already learn my lesson As for overkill, i rather bring the fish in fast then have him out there too long...And then have the sharks finish the job.....:fishing:


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## sinker man (Jun 16, 2006)

I wonder if anybody reads anything more than the thread title before they answer a post. I have caught plenty of kings using wire and #4 trebles. I know that quite a few people use mono leaders up to the last few inches then go to wire and a 5/0 or 6/0 circle hook. Most of them usually attach a stinger treble to that via wire. About 3 yrs. ago I talked to a lady on Reddington Pier that used 130 fluorocarbon and circle hooks on her clothes pin rigs and she stated that even though she occasionally had her leader bitten into she caught more kings and tarpon using that set up. Basically what she was telling me is that the increase in strikes outweighed the increase in cutoffs. Go ahead and laugh if you like but I started pier fishing for kings in '72 and can tell you that the lady knew what she was doing. In fact it was quite obvious that she was the old salt out there that day by the number of grown men waiting in line to have her cast out their anchors.:redface: (geez guys if ya don't know how: learn to set your own anchor)I've seen this at other places...guys with custom rods asking someone else to put it out there for them.:--| Anyway Surffish is probably right. Not many people going to take a risk on a king if they don't catch them on a regular basis.


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## jettypark28 (Jun 23, 2006)

*Sinker*

I read the first post and then your reply, i realize you arent a newie....I also started fishing the pier (with my dad 70s). You ask has anybody use "Tarpon rigs" and you werent new to kings...I guess i was just thinking out loud for others that might read this. My "Opinion" would Tarpon rigs work for "Kingfish" ...NO...i wouldnt try it, a big king won't give you a 2nd chance. Thats my Opinion based on the cutoff that i have gotten, using 200lb mono leader off the piers. (These might have been sharks) But when you have a older brother and a dad bringing "Kings" with wire but i will have to say back then. I wasnt using "Circle Hooks"...and i wasnt trying to be a SmartA$$, when i ask you to try it and see how you do...I would also like to know. As i tend to use alot of "Fluo"...and another factor to throw into the mix...(and again this is for others) The Price of flou in the higher weight class....i tend to stick with "Seaguar" and a 30meter coil of 130lb comes to $74  Thats almost a new reel....Stainless steel leader wire...maybe $10opcorn: And i rarely use or seem wire use to catch tarpons, and almost everyone is using Circle hooks to catch Tarpons now. And they work really well with them, but like you know Tarpon suck in their bait....where Kings are "Jack the ripper" on baits and again just my "Opinion" based on that alone....i will stick to wire, when i know "Kings" are out there....opcorn:


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## sinker man (Jun 16, 2006)

Well it's not a big deal but I've get what the lady from Reddington Pier told me in the back of my mind for some time now and when someone talks about adding a cheater wire to their fluorocarbon leader it brings back memories of that conversation and others . I've talked to people who troll 31/2 drone spoons for schoolies using only 60lb mono. Their theory is compared to what you are going to pay to get there then a few spoons are are cheaper than the extra fuel they would use to catch the same number using wire not to mention the cost per hr when you figure everything Including boat payment etc. IT also fits in with their bottom fishing agenda as they use the same outfits for both and they just modify the existing windon leader rather than changing out. I Know plenty of kings are caught on 130 and 200lb mono by trollers .They loosesome though,,


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## Sea2aeS (Jan 7, 2005)

ive used mono on spoons trolling with planers to catch small snake kings, but not smokers. the only times i got bitten off, I figured it was a larger king that could fit the whole spoon in its mouth instead of half like these little 3-6lb snakes did. try it. youll either learn or you wont. you only live once. be the pioneer of flouro kingin bro. let us know how it goes


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## jettypark28 (Jun 23, 2006)

*Not trying to*

be funny but if we took into account the time and all the gear we use (line,reel,pole,tackle,ect) and try to put a price on it...We has fishermen are on the losing end thank god, love the sport for what it is. My gf is always asking "How much did that cost" but its better then drinking or smoking it away...or on the internet playing poker But seeing that you will be fishing from a pier, mostly in clear water. I wouldnt give up on the idea of using "Flou" leaders as you know you will get more hit with it over wire...And with circle hooks, it might work out for you. I would still give it a try, and adding that stinger to the flou leader would come in handy for those short biter, and since the wire is hidden it should work. I have a few leaders setup just that way Give it a try and see what happen, i would just test it out by using two rod setup the same way...one with wire and one with mono and see what happen...opcorn: I did this to prove a point to myself and other over "Flou" leaders.....flou won:beer: :beer:


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## rhorm (Mar 25, 2005)

I think I might give it a shot this weekend with the flouro leader on one rig atleast. Thinking of hitting the skyway north in the am. I noticed you mentioned reddington. You get out there much?


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## b3butner (Oct 1, 2003)

*80 lb. Fluorocarbon*

:fishing: I had an experience a couple of years ago you might find interesting. In addition to my King rig, I set up a Spanish rig using much smaller tackle. My rig was 80lb. fluorocarbon about 5' with 2 #6 hooks about 3" apart. I had a 5" mullet on for bait. It was the end of the day and I was reaching for the fighting rod when it takes off. Well, To make a long story short I lost the largest king I personally have every seen (mid 40's). The rig was not the problem however, not enough reel to hold him at the pilings. Once he was gone I looked the rig over closely and it looked perfect. I still use wire to Kingfish but I certainly wouldn't say fluorocarbon won't work.


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## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

I've caught big spanish macks on 50lb fluoro and 1/0 circle hooks throwing live bait on a pier when they were super finicky and wouldn't hit anything else. They had to be hooked up in the corner of the mouth when they hit the live bait or else they would be gone...lost a lot of hooks, but got some strikes when it was slow. I've also seen one decent king caught a few years back on a circle hook on mono, but it was hooked near the top of the head :redface: 

Using fluro on kings is a statistically losing proposition: if things go right, and the circle hook sets up without the leader ever touching their teeth, it's fine. However, if the fish closes its mouth too soon, or swallows the bait deep, or swipes it, it's bye bye fish.


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## sinker man (Jun 16, 2006)

Sorry about not getting back sooner, I guess I'll have to try it and see for myself what works best over the long haul. As for a start I think I'll let water clarity dictate the leader material. If it works there then think about making a total switch for a test period. Rohrm, no I lived in New Port Richey for a short time. If I ever move back it will be south of Tampa. Too many people trying to live too close together....Too far to drive to get to decent beaches.... I like the Skyway and Ft De Soto though. Also found Venice Pier to be a great place.


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