# Breakaway LDX or HDX for California



## tqn626

I live in California and you guys seem really knowledgeable with the breakaway rods. I'm debating between the ldx or the hdx model. Fish I will probably be targeting is Leopard shark, guitar shark, maybe batrays. My body build is 5'5' small frame build (asian). I'm using the rod as a bait and wait while i fish for the nearshore fish. From what I read on this forum, you guys like to cut the rod down a few inches?

For reels i'm thinking of pairing it with either a Emblem pro A, Daiwa Saltist Spinner, or Daiwa Sealine sha30. Is there a drawback to using a fast retrieve reel such as the Saltist spinner?


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## NC KingFisher

Not sure about the rods but as for the fast retrieve its harder to reel in. Go with a daiwa 50sha and a mono spectra combo with an 8ft rod and a fighting belt of some sort and that will be perfect for someone your size(no offense)


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## tqn626

No offense taken. I pointed out my size for that very reason. I know my size is a limiting factor. Must look really funny to see a short skinny asian guy using a 14 foot rod. I never understood why it is harder with a faster retrieve to reel in fish. Still a novice when it comes these things.


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## NC KingFisher

Its something about gear revolutions and sciency mumboo jumbo Solid7 the scientist should know why im sure hell chime in if he sees it But for all people the longer hte rod generally the harder to fish with drag except for some situations


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## sunburntspike

for the fish you've chosen to target,NCKingfisher is on target with rod length.unless you are trying to sling a pound of bait and lead a million miles.your stature matters in the leverage department and a 8'-9' heavy to xtra heavy rod rating is going to allow you to put maximum pressure on the fish.you're gonna lose some distance on the cast obviously.as for the reel ,i would definitly pair whatever rod you finnally chose with a quality baitcaster,be it a sha,a tld,a garcia,etc.with the baitcaster you're gonna get more distance on the cast,better line capacity,better drag,and easier to fix and upgrade if needed.i would stay away from any spinning reel off the shore for targeting sharks and the like,they have a tendency to go BOOM!!


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## tqn626

Well, I currently use a SHA30 as a boat fishing reel, I will probably just use that on the rod I get. There are some areas where I fish where i need to cast a mile. I also want to target the bigger critters eventually. The thing with conventional reel is that I never actually used it on a long rod, I know i will eat it super hard on the cast. My plan is to just get one combo that can fish most of my big critter needs.


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## Tippet

The man wants a longrod for the surf and you steer him toward an 8-footer with a Daiwa 50?? Don't listen to them t, they're full of crap. Your size is in no way shape or form a limiting factor and anyone who says it is has their head up their ass. You can handle any rod you want. Meet up with us on Sat and see for yourself. Shoot me a PM on the other forum and lets get you squared away with the rod and reel you want, not what some armchair ******* says you need.


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## sunburntspike

Tippet said:


> The man wants a longrod for the surf and you steer him toward an 8-footer with a Daiwa 50?? Don't listen to them t, they're full of crap. Your size is in no way shape or form a limiting factor and anyone who says it is has their head up their ass. You can handle any rod you want. Meet up with us on Sat and see for yourself. Shoot me a PM on the other forum and lets get you squared away with the rod and reel you want, not what some armchair ****** says you need.


mr. tippet,we are only steering him towards a shorter rod due to the FACT that he specifically mentioned targeting large fish from shore.you are correct that a longer rod can be capably handled by the poster,but if he has any decent shot at getting an 8'+ shark on the beach without wearing himself out hes gonna need the shorter rod.a sha 50 in expierenced hands can throw 8&bait 120yds,seen it,done it.as for your assumption that i am an arm chair dickhead ,i have fished the surf and piers of the eastcoast for over 20 years,i BUILD custom fishing rods for this exact scenario,my reputation speaks for itself from ocean city maryland to hatterass nc,i also speculate that i have landed more 100 lb+ fish then you've ever seen.now i would like an apology for the great slander on my good name,SIR.


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## BubbaHoTep

Tippet said:


> The man wants a longrod for the surf and you steer him toward an 8-footer with a Daiwa 50?? Don't listen to them t, they're full of crap. Your size is in no way shape or form a limiting factor and anyone who says it is has their head up their ass. You can handle any rod you want. Meet up with us on Sat and see for yourself. Shoot me a PM on the other forum and lets get you squared away with the rod and reel you want, not what some armchair ******* says you need.


Hey Tippet, just so you know: I cut the language out of your post there. No personal insults, which would include name calling. If you disagree with sbspike and want to discuss it, there are ways to do so without resorting to the insults.

Carry on.


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## Tippet

Gotcha bubba

He plans to target leos, SNGF, and bats. 
All commonly caught on 20lb line, 
though more often ppl are using 30lb or heavier. 
I catch all 3 species on 17lb Ultima F1 with a Blue Yonder or 525
He could also hook into a soupfin by surprise, or I suppose even a 7-gill.

An 8' fish (almost unheard of around here from the beach) will wear anyone one out, 
no matter what rod they're using, or how big or small their frame is. 
To say he shouldn't get a longrod because he's too small is pure douchebaggery.


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## Hudak

Tippet said:


> The man wants a longrod for the surf and you steer him toward an 8-footer with a Daiwa 50?? *Don't listen to them t, they're full of crap. Your size is in no way shape or form a limiting factor and anyone who says it is has their head up their ass. You can handle any rod you want. *Meet up with us on Sat and see for yourself. Shoot me a PM on the other forum and lets get you squared away with the rod and reel you want, not what some armchair ******* says you need.


Now keep in mind, I support your overall premise.... Saying that, "Your size is in no way shape or form a limiting factor..." Is one of the most ignorant statements I have read in a long time. There is no way to contend a ~15' Century TTR in that gentleman's hands will be as effective as a 10.5' rainshadow 1266 for the same purpose, let alone the HDX or LDX he is referring to. 

Just because he is 5'5" does not immediately decide he is incapable of throwing a rod with length either, there are too many factors to jump to a decision base upon a post from an internet forum. Until it is known what he has previously had success with, or, has not had success with, it would be a stretch to suggest what surf rod would be proper for him accurately. 

Conversely, to suggest, while attempting to chastise others, that the OP can throw what ever surf rod he wants successfully is equally as erroneous. It is important to know what he can handle without blindly offering suggestions. Obviously, I assume, that will be hammered out if the original poster does meet up with you Saturday as per your invitation. 

In this case, I wouldn't have immediately jumped to suggest an 8ft rod, but at least that is a safe suggestion with the information provided, or lack thereof.

To the original poster, I have seen "small" Asian fellas successfully use 14' rods in long distance surfcasting competitions. Proper technique will overcome size in many situations.

Before you attempt to accuse me of having my head up my ass, I too am a successful rod builder and a very successful long distance surfcasting competitor. I make it my business to create the perfect rod for each individual uniquely designed according to their stature. I have successfully studied the art of surf casting for several years and dare to say there are only a couple other people in the US that have more time casting and analyzing every aspect of the casting process than I over the last 5 years. Until recently, I held a National Distance record and finished directly behind the national champ more times than not in the last couple of years. I am one of only a handful of US casters that have thrown over 800' in a tournament. Kinda hard to do that with my head up my ass.

I did not post this to get into a pissing contest, nor to attempt to make anyone mad. I am just sharing my opinion that has been formed over a few thousand of hours casting, helping others cast, and building surf rods for all body types designed to cast as far and accurately as possible.

Robert


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## Tippet

Thank you Robert well said

My pb is just over 600', haven't competed in tourney yet


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## Hudak

any cast at or above 200yds is a great cast. Congrats.


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## Hooked Up

600 ft is only great when your casting with someone that throws 450......if your casting with someone who throws 750 he walks on past you into the realms of what i call the third field.......a single field being 100 yards


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## Tippet

yeah you got that right. At home I feel like a champ, when I visit San Antonio and Corpus Christi I may as well be sitting at the kid's table lol


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## Hudak

Who do you throw with in that area? I know a couple guys from there. Only reason I am asking is cause all of the casters I know down in that area, I would do anything for. Great bunch of guys. Drank more than one beer with them.


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## Hudak

tqn626 said:


> I live in California and you guys seem really knowledgeable with the breakaway rods. I'm debating between the ldx or the hdx model. Fish I will probably be targeting is Leopard shark, guitar shark, maybe batrays. My body build is 5'5' small frame build (asian). I'm using the rod as a bait and wait while i fish for the nearshore fish. From what I read on this forum, you guys like to cut the rod down a few inches?
> 
> For reels i'm thinking of pairing it with either a Emblem pro A, Daiwa Saltist Spinner, or Daiwa Sealine sha30. Is there a drawback to using a fast retrieve reel such as the Saltist spinner?


BTW, faster retrieve usually indicates it is less powerful. How much less, can't say, only you can determine if you need a lower more powerful gear ratio to get your fish in, or is a faster ratio will be fine.


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## Tippet

In Texas? Carlos, Gary, Lyndon (Sapo) Rudy, Ray, Jack, Cary, Clifford, Jenn...Nick & Brenda... a long list. Allen too, rest his soul. The Breakaway crowd. Nick sold me my first longrod, an HDX T/B; taught me the OTG & backcast, and the basics of a productive casting session. Dalyn taught me flat-arc pendulum. Carlos taught me highswing pendulum (and humility too, lol _that_ guy can bend a rod...Gary too). I could stand to develop a really good hatteras. Taught myself the Brighton, but I never use it. 

In SoCal we're beginning to see more ppl interested in long-rodding, distance casting. Trouble is, so many great fish are available in so close, people tend to use 6lb bass gear. I had to visit Corpus Christi to meet true distance casters. For a quite a few seasons I got flamed out whenever I mentioned distance casting or long rods on the local forum. It's getting better though.


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## solid7

NC KingFisher said:


> Its something about gear revolutions and sciency mumboo jumbo Solid7 the scientist should know why im sure hell chime in if he sees it But for all people the longer hte rod generally the harder to fish with drag except for some situations


Thanks for the name drop, I think? 

The gear ratio is the proportion of input force to output. The lower the gear ratio, the more "torque dedicated" the gear train. The higher the gear ratio, the more "speed dedicated" the drive train. It has to do with angular velocities and mechanical advantages and other such stuff. I know you don't really don't want to talk about it that much, so we'll just stop right there. 

Stick to the lower gear ratios for larger fish, and you'll be just fine. Otherwise, if you want the best of both worlds, buy a 2 speed reel, and you'll learn the difference for yourself. (and possibly even wish you hadn't spent the extra money on a 2 speed)

Tread lightly on the guys in this thread. They're good guys, and will not steer you wrong.


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## Hudak

Carlos is my arch enemy.  Every time we meet on the field, a good time is had. Most of those people you mentioned I either talk to on the phone/text/or facebook on a regular basis. Very good bunch of people.


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## plotalot

tqn626 said:


> Is there a drawback to using a fast retrieve reel such as the Saltist spinner?


When talking in terms of a spinning reel I would say there is no drawback, in fact I would go as far to say a high speed retrieve reel is actually an advantage. I understand that the higher the retrieve ratio is the more of a mechanical advantage the fish has. Spinning reels aren't designed to reel in with much pressure at all and any attempt to do so is damaging to your line. Spinning reels are made to take up line with much lighter pressure when pumping the rod and reeling in as the rod is swept downward. A higher gear ratio takes up line faster, thus allowing a faster down stroke and limiting the amount of line a fish can win back when the rod pressure is slack. 

As far as rod length is concerned, the only real disadvantages in using a longer rod to fight a fish are the additional weight of the rod and problems the angler creates himself. If one chooses a rod which is too stiff or lacks a parabolic action then he looses an advantage. A fish has to work to bend the rod and effectively shortening the rod and giving back some leverage to the angler. Also there are absolutely no rules saying that one has to hold a rod straight up when fighting a fish. If you lower your rod tip what you're doing is essentially shortening your rod. By doing so it is much easier on you and it comes at a very small price of lost pressure you're putting on the fish (<10%). Take a look at the way fly fishermen fight big fish with relatively long rods. 

So what it all boils down to is what size rod can an angler of slight stature actually cast efficiently. I'm no expert on the matter so I won't chime in any further, other than to share the following story. Back thirty years or so I was fishing on the San Luis Pass Pier in Texas, where I came upon a small Vietnamese man who was about 5' 6" and may have weighed a buck and a quarter with his pockets full of pyramid sinkers. I was drawn into a conversation with him since he had the very first carbon fiber surf rod I'd ever seen. During our chat he hooked a small hardhead catfish and reeled it in. I watched him rebait and cast his line back out, wow that little fella sent it! Granted that I don't surf fish much anymore so my exposure is limited, but he launched his bait further than anyone I had seen before or since in a real life fishing situation.


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## NC KingFisher

How big are the rays? if they are over 50lbs then you will get a work out on a long rod. Heck you will get a workout in general


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## solid7

plotalot said:


> A higher gear ratio takes up line faster, thus allowing a faster down stroke and limiting the amount of line a fish can win back when the rod pressure is slack.


Not to try to cast any doubt on what you've said, but this is only HALF correct. Gear ratios are one thing, length of crank handle and diameter of spool are another. If you have 2 models of reel with the same size everything, then higher gear ratio = faster. However, in 2 different reels, it is possible to have a higher gear ratio, yet slower retrieve. (and lower gear ratio, yet faster retrieve) You must also SPECIFICALLY check the line retrieval rate to ensure that your gear ratio and line retrieval compare with whatever other reel you are looking at.

Gear ratio is nothing more than how many turns of/on the spool per crank revolution.


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## plotalot

solid7 said:


> Not to try to cast any doubt on what you've said, but


But, you knew what I was referring to and take a look at your original reply to this thread where you mention gear ratio four times while mentioning line retrieval not once. Also if you think about it, spool diameter can be viewed as part of the overall gear ratio since it acts as a gear or pulley in the overall scheme. Rather than derail this thread over proper terminology, let's just admit that I am correct and I'll go as far to admit that you're even more correct.


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## solid7

plotalot said:


> Rather than derail this thread over proper terminology, let's just admit that I am correct and I'll go as far to admit that you're even more correct.


It was a clarification for the guy who was asking about gear ratios because he didn't understand them. It wasn't intended to be a rebuke to you. (just a note to compare apples to apples) If it doesn't take away from civil discusison, it is only adding to it, so let's not go anywhere but forward...


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## plotalot

Fair enough 7, onward in a civil fashion.


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## Tippet

50lb ray? Yeah, it could happen if he's lucky. He'd be tired after that. And happy.

Please stop trying to defend recommending an 8' rod, either move on or admit your blunder but please quit flogging that dead horse

Robert, PM sent. Looking forward to casting with you in Texas one of these days


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## NC KingFisher

Tippet said:


> 50lb ray? Yeah, it could happen if he's lucky. He'd be tired after that. And happy.
> 
> Please stop trying to defend recommending an 8' rod, either move on or admit your blunder but please quit flogging that dead horse
> 
> Robert, PM sent. Looking forward to casting with you in Texas one of these days


Tippet i was not trying to, i am looking into a 10 to 12ft casted rod for sharks myself, i was just trying to find out the size of the rays. 8ft is to short for me in my taste as i am 6'3 and not done growing


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## Tippet

Whoops I apologize, sorry i dug up bones.


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## NC KingFisher

No worries man its all cool


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## tqn626

solid7 said:


> Thanks for the name drop, I think?
> 
> The gear ratio is the proportion of input force to output. The lower the gear ratio, the more "torque dedicated" the gear train. The higher the gear ratio, the more "speed dedicated" the drive train. It has to do with angular velocities and mechanical advantages and other such stuff. I know you don't really don't want to talk about it that much, so we'll just stop right there.
> 
> Stick to the lower gear ratios for larger fish, and you'll be just fine. Otherwise, if you want the best of both worlds, buy a 2 speed reel, and you'll learn the difference for yourself. (and possibly even wish you hadn't spent the extra money on a 2 speed)
> 
> Tread lightly on the guys in this thread. They're good guys, and will not steer you wrong.


Thanks for the info. I always wanted to know why people always said get a lower gear ratio.



plotalot said:


> Back thirty years or so I was fishing on the San Luis Pass Pier in Texas, where I came upon a small Vietnamese man who was about 5' 6" and may have weighed a buck and a quarter with his pockets full of pyramid sinkers. I was drawn into a conversation with him since he had the very first carbon fiber surf rod I'd ever seen. During our chat he hooked a small hardhead catfish and reeled it in. I watched him rebait and cast his line back out, wow that little fella sent it! Granted that I don't surf fish much anymore so my exposure is limited, but he launched his bait further than anyone I had seen before or since in a real life fishing situation.


That's kinda cool since I am a 5'5" Vietnamese guy myself. I'll follow in his footsteps!



NC KingFisher said:


> How big are the rays? if they are over 50lbs then you will get a work out on a long rod. Heck you will get a workout in general


The area I usually fish has a ton of rays actually. I was trying to fish for halibut when it got on and snap my rod in two. My own fault for trying to fight it with a Shimano Scimitar rod. There are some pretty big fish in the area. Some guy 2 days ago caught a 6ft+ shark on the pier. Didn't see the whole shark because he was a massive asshole and was holding the cut off tail walking around.

Well, I decided on a Breakaway LDX Paired with a Sealine 30SHA. I was already using my sealine as a boat reel so mind as well save money. My only worry is that I shall eat the birdnest repeatedly for a while until I get it down. Would Braid backing and with a mono topshot be a good idea? 

Going to spend the $$ I would of spent on a reel on a Lucky Craft lure throwing rod. Using a Shimano Clarus 8'6" currently and it feels like a wet noodle now.

What Tippet said is true about the west coast, not many long rodders. Went on this forum to gather more information. I think only 1 person has a Breakaway rod in all of Los Angeles from what i seen on our fishing forum.

Thanks a lot for all the valuable information.


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## NC KingFisher

Yes mono over braid cause a braid birdnest will make you want to rip your hair out. Mono top shot is almost always better with a braid or mono shock. As for the sealine do you have the centrifugal brakes still?


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## tqn626

Well, I never used the centrifugal brakes at all. I used to fish with my conventional for a while off the jetties. Stop a long time ago and started doing light gear surf fishing. Are they suppose to make a clicking noise when you reel it in (don't have the clicker on). That how long I stopped using conventional reels. Hmm, just sold some stuff on ebay. Maybe I go the spinning route.


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## tqn626

Anyone know a good place to buy the Daiwa Emblem Pro. Lowest I found is 138.


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## Tippet

I thought you already ordered a casting rod


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## NC KingFisher

If your going spinning then from what i heard the fin nor ofs is pretty good


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## Zeb

tqn626 said:


> Well, I never used the centrifugal brakes at all. I used to fish with my conventional for a while off the jetties. Stop a long time ago and started doing light gear surf fishing. Are they suppose to make a clicking noise when you reel it in (don't have the clicker on). That how long I stopped using conventional reels. Hmm, just sold some stuff on ebay. Maybe I go the spinning route.


If you don't have the brakes you can contact daiwa and they will send you some for free. GO DAIWA!


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## tqn626

Zeb said:


> If you don't have the brakes you can contact daiwa and they will send you some for free. GO DAIWA!


I have them, I just never use them. My LDX should come in tomorrow. Anyone got any recommendation for shark RIGS?


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## Tippet

yes


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## NC KingFisher

tqn626 said:


> I have them, I just never use them. My LDX should come in tomorrow. Anyone got any recommendation for shark RIGS?


18in+ of single strand, swivel, then shock leader and sliding sinker. 8/0 j hook at the smallest. Or the same hook with a 2ft+ piece of hi seas quatro 400lb mono, double crimped. Thats just how i do it. You can also use cable, i dont cause its more expensive


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## Sparky's

Tippet said:


> The man wants a *longrod for the surf* and you steer him toward an 8-footer with a Daiwa 50?? Don't listen to them t, they're full of crap. Your size is in no way shape or form a limiting factor and anyone who says it is has their head up their ass. You can handle any rod you want. Meet up with us on Sat and see for yourself. Shoot me a PM on the other forum and lets get you squared away with the rod and reel you want, not what some armchair ******* says you need.


Where in hell did you see him say "I want a long rod for Surf…" from what I've been reading he's only mentioned "nearshore" fishing, and "boat fishing" and as far as I'm concerned for a 5'5" person (size really doesn't matter) a 5' tuna stick would suffice, either for bait fishing or shark fishing (especially if the method used is balloon drift trolling), with about 60-80# braided line and a 4-6' stainless steel leader… the rest depends on the area and species you're looking for.


p.s. just for the record, I'm using this with a PENN Senator works just fine :fishing:


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## Hudak

Not familar with the HDX or LDX the OP is referring to?


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## SteveZ

thekingfeeder said:


> Not familar with the HDX or LDX the OP is referring to?


breakawayusa.com


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## Hudak

No, I am familiar, thanks. Helped a few people get a few more feet out of them. Watched Cody Bates snap one in half here in Linden at the oche. 

I was asking the fella, who is asking why it is being assumed he wants a long rod for the surf. I was wondering if he was familar with the 13' surf rods the OP is referring to by name and model.


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## SteveZ

thekingfeeder said:


> No, I am familiar, thanks.


Couldn't imagine you weren't...


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## NC KingFisher

Sparky's said:


> p.s. just for the record, I'm using this with a PENN Senator works just fine :fishing:


PENN POWER and that leader you suggested is a little small


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## jcallaham

I have a lot of expierence fishing california. for those fish, you want the rod that will cast the farthest for you. that being said you are going to need 4 to8 oz sputnik sinkers,(big waves, lots of current,and radical tide changes). you need to throw 4 to 6 " fresh dead sardine, or a whole squid 100 yards. to do this you need one of the LDX rods, you need to learn about ghost cocoon bait thread, clip down rigs and casting techniqe.

the fish you are going to catch aren't huge, if you are using a spinner I would recomend 30lb test braid with 60lb test braid shock leader. An abu or akios 6500 hundred reel with 15lb mono would work real well. 40 t0 50 ib sock leader


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