# Conventional with mono vs Spinning with braid



## waywack40 (Oct 7, 2007)

Anyone have info or comments on relative distance (fishing) when using mono on a conventional vs braid on a spinning reel? For instance 20lb mono on a conventional vs 20lb braid (6lb diameter) on a spinning reel. ( A given----similar poles and reel quality for each). Also, are most people using mono or braid on a conventional for fishing at distance?


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## SteveZ (Nov 30, 2006)

*Yep*

I compared two RS1502s, one wrapped spinning and the other conventional. The spinner wore a Tica Dolphin reel with 30# PP and a 40# BG shocker. The conventional had an Abu 6500 BY with 17# Sufix Tri+ and a 40# BG shocker. The weight was an 8 oz sinker in a tennis ball for a total of 10.1 oz. The spinner was pretty good at 95-100 yds. The conventional was just a bit further at 105-110 yds. Distances were measured with a wheel. Not a scientific test by any means but pretty clear to me that the conventional will out distance the spinner by a slight margin with a typical 8 & bait load. My .02.


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## SteveZ (Nov 30, 2006)

waywack40 said:


> Also, are most people using mono or braid on a conventional for fishing at distance?


I have fished both on conventionals but now use mono exclusively. Also use braid exclusively on spinners but find myself using spinners less often. Last trip I didn't even put a spinner in the truck...


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## Rockfish1 (Apr 8, 2005)

with 20# braid on a spinner, you'd prolly need some protection for your index finger... that small diameter line will cut you quick, specially when your hands get soaked...

I use braid and mono on conventionals, location and conditions dictate what is used when...


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## SteveZ (Nov 30, 2006)

Rockfish1 said:


> with 20# braid on a spinner, you'd prolly need some protection for your index finger... that small diameter line will cut you quick, specially when your hands get soaked...



Yup...ya gotta do something. For bait I use a shocker & lot the drag down when ya cast. Prolly why I mostly use conventionals these days. Just easier...


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Typically spinners and braid start to overtake conventionals on distance only as the weight is reduced, due to the conventional needing a fair bit of wieght to get it rotating in the first place.

Light lures = spinners and braid

Weight and bait= conventionals 

just my experience, yours may vary


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## Hannibal (Aug 10, 2007)

Let me add another question to the mix:

When using a conventional reel (say 525 Mag) and all else being equal (rod, weights, etc) - what allows for greater distance - mono or braid?

(I'm buying a 525 Mag with a 12" OM rod. Haven't decided on whether I wanted to go with mono or braid for either added line strenth or line capacity. Distance is my priority. Would be using it to cast out cut baits, etc - no lures).


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## notso (Jul 18, 2005)

Hannibal said:


> Let me add another question to the mix:
> 
> When using a conventional reel (say 525 Mag) and all else being equal (rod, weights, etc) - what allows for greater distance - mono or braid?
> 
> ...


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## waywack40 (Oct 7, 2007)

Thanks for the info;---interesting.



SteveZ said:


> I compared two RS1502s, one wrapped spinning and the other conventional. The spinner wore a Tica Dolphin reel with 30# PP and a 40# BG shocker. The conventional had an Abu 6500 BY with 17# Sufix Tri+ and a 40# BG shocker. The weight was an 8 oz sinker in a tennis ball for a total of 10.1 oz. The spinner was pretty good at 95-100 yds. The conventional was just a bit further at 105-110 yds. Distances were measured with a wheel. Not a scientific test by any means but pretty clear to me that the conventional will out distance the spinner by a slight margin with a typical 8 & bait load. My .02.


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## waywack40 (Oct 7, 2007)

I have tried to think through what really gives rise to the difference in results with casting with a conventional or a spinning reel. At first blush, you would think that the spinner should perform better as there in nothing moving except the line peeling off the reel while the conventional has to be revolving like hell to get the line off. But with the conventional the energy to make the reel spin at high RPM is imparted to the reel at the instant the sinker starts heading out. This results in an amount of stored energy in the form of momentum within the revolving spool and line. As the line travels out, of course, there will be a decrease in the momentum or stored energy in the reel as the weight (or mass) of the spool decreases with less line, the RPMs drop (maybe actually have to rise for some portion of the flight as the spool diameter decreases), frictional loss in the bearings, magnetics, and air friction. So, if all of these factors are kept very low, the momentum that was imparted to the spool at the release of the cast actually aids in "moving the line out" which takes some of the "work load" off the sinker.

For the spinner, nothing is revolving except for the looping of the line off the spool. Of course, we hear about energy (or distance) losses when the looping line is hitting the guides or slapping the pole. My feeling is that the biggest loss is probably the frictional loss of pulling the line off the reel and running against the front edge of the spool. (Not sure how one would prove this, however) In any case, the sinker, in the form of its momentum, has to "do all the work" of pulling the line off from the spool for the spinner, while the conventional has the momentum of the spinning spool which "helps" the sinker take line off the spool.

Any comments?--(besides: well---that is all BS)

QUOTE]


While I have not tested this, by the physics involved, the braid should cast farther as long as you can control the reel. Because of braids smaller dia, the relative diameter of the spool will not shrink as quickly as line comes off. That means that the spool doesn't have to keep speeding up as much as for the lead to maintain it's velocity. Of course, this means that the reel will be harder to control because you will have less "natural braking". That's why when people first start throwing conventionals & keep blowing them up, one of the first things you here suggested is to use heavier line (larger dia) & underfill the spool. Both of those things increase the "natural braking". But be warned, throwing a convensional with relatively heavy weight and braid can be dangerous if & when you have a blowup. There was someone a while back that reported needing several stiches when a loose loop of braid wrapped around his thumb during a cast & almost cut it off:--|

Sorry for the long reply, I'm an engineer & can't help it[/QUOTE]


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## SteveZ (Nov 30, 2006)

waywack40 said:


> I have tried to think through what really gives rise to the difference in results with casting with a conventional or a spinning reel.


Sounds to me like ya got it figgered out pretty good. If ya tune your conventionals so they're just on the verge of blowing up it almost seems like they are throwing the line off the spool. And for good distance with a spinner ya want a long spool with thin line so it doesn't decrease in diameter much during the cast. Go get an older design spinner with a short spool & fill it up with fat line and you'll see it won't throw for beans 'cause of all the line friction on the lip. But with a modern design with thin line...that'll throw for ya.

All this stuff is fun to mess with when ya can't get to the beach. My .02.


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

i'm gonna jump in with a few opinions.
on the theory of the conventional pushing the line off,i'd have to disagree.the weight pulls the line off both types of reels.backlash is caused by the spool spinning faster than the line is being pulled off.
all the records for distance are mono only because mono is all you can use when tournament casting.when braid is allowed you'll see some amazing distances.
braid has so many advantages over mono that it is all i use on all my reels.
these are just my humble opinions.


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## spinyeel (Jun 17, 2007)

The dig in factor with braid on coventionals,plus the idea of pulling out a fuzz with wet hands during a hot bite converted me back to good quality mono in surf and rock fishing situations.Everyone used braid,all be it a lot thicker back in the dark ages and mono definately put an end to that.Mono still has its place.


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## SteveZ (Nov 30, 2006)

fish bucket said:


> on the theory of the conventional pushing the line off,i'd have to disagree.the weight pulls the line off both types of reels.



Whatcha think fluff is??? When the spool spins faster than the weight pulls the line off...well, if that ain't throwing line off the spool I don't know what is.


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

stevez,i know exactly what"fluff" is.it's when line comes off the spool faster than the weight is pulling it.
if you go back and read original comment,you'll see it was stated that the spool momentum "helps"the sinker.i don't believe the line aids the weight at all.the whole idea of magnets(or your thumb)is to avoid line over running the speed at which it is being pulled off.
this is my opinion.maybe some distance casters can chime in.

spinyeel,mono does have it's place in certain situations.for my type of fishing i think braid is more suited.the braid of the past is like night and day when compared to modern braid.mono has improved over the years also.


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## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

The way I see it, there is actually more friction in a spinner than in a conventional reel.

Like was stated in the post already, a lot of friction in spinners comes from the line being pulled over the lip. This friction increases (in theory) as the amount of line on the spool decreases because the line has to be pulled at an increased angle.

With a conventional, especially magged versions, the spool pin is actually being suspended in an almost friction-less position by the magnets and the revolution speed (ie centripedal force). And in addition, after the first few seconds of the cast the spool is revolving on its own momentum and not causing any drag on the line (giving rise to fluffing of the line). These two factors combine to eliminate much of the drag on the line as the cast progresses, whereas a spinner's drag on the line is increasing.

I haven't done any testing of this idea, and most of it is based on a moderate understanding of physics and reel design.

So just my .02 on the matter.

Evan


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

IMO i find multipliers easier to cast heavy payloads 

then a spinner with a heavy payload. even if i use breakaway cannon,, i have to wrap the line at least twice around the knob or itll slip.


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

Ok, since most of you are from the East Coast then you know who Ron Arra is. If you have watched his dvd or read his book then even he says that conventional reels out throw spinning reels and he explains why. His words are, that the line going thru the guides on a spinning rod create friction that cuts down the distance compared to a conventional rod. Now Ron does get great distance with his spinning rod on his video and he is not even using one of the new long spool reels like a Diawa. He is using a Van Staal with a shorter spool. But he still gets better distance with his conventional reels. As for braid line on a spinning reel, you will still get friction going thru the guides. As for braid on a conventional, it just doesn't throw as well as mono. 

CB


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

how long ago was the book written?things have been changing fast.new spinning reels,braided line and new guide systems have all conspired to make spinners very competitive distance wise.
when braid is allowed in tournament casting i believe you'll see some astounding distances.


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

The dvd is only a couple of years old, at least braid has been out since before he brought it out. And as for a big differeance in distances I don't think it will happen. Since it doesn't work good on conventional reels that is. Has any yet been able to cast farther than 750' with braid and spinning gear? This is the record for spinning. If so I haven't heard about it. Even if it never gets sanctioned, surley someone would have tried it on there own. Anyone? I mean come on anyone can try it. All you have to do is take your gear to a field, cast, and measure. There is a big difference from casting into the waves and actually measuring your cast on dry land. Guess I will have to get the Diawa 5500 out load it with some braid and give a shot myself sometime. First I will have to get me another spinning rod.

Actually the record for spinning here in the US is 758.40' set by Mark Edwards.

CB


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

actually i do know someone who has thrown a spinner with braid a measured 909'.


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

fish bucket said:


> actually i do know someone who has thrown a spinner with braid a measured 909'.


Hmmm, interesting considering I have never heard of it. Would be nice to know all the facts like rod and reel make, braid line used and weight thrown. Since I'm a competitive long caster I will just have to try it myself. I will have to put it to the test. Same rod and reel but with mono on one spool and switch to braid of equal diameter on the other spool. Good thing my Diawa 5500 came with two spools. Now just need to get a new spinning rod(lets see HDX maybe?). Sounds like a good excuse to buy a new rod to me.

CB


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

fish bucket said:


> actually i do know someone who has thrown a spinner with braid a measured 909'.



Lots going on in this thread, let me add my .02

Ron Arra's video is a bit dated, spinners have been gaining a bit with the use of new braids.

Tournaments don't allow braid, and I think there is good safety reasons for that.

But, let's talk thru the conventional reel and the idea that it should "throw" line off the reel. This is absolutely true. If the weight has to aid the reel by "pulling" line off a conventional, the reel is not tuned properly for tournament casting. 

A spinner has two distinct *disadvantages* in distance casting, the line hits the lip of the reel spool first, an obvious disadvantage that increases with distance, due to more spool lip becoming exposed as line level decreases.

2nd, the line is funelled into the first guide, it really takes a slow mo video when this is happening to see that it is a constant source of friction.

Tournament rules would seem to favor conventionals by disallowing braid, but this is a safety issue. Tournaments allow the use of the line based on the lines diameter (thickness,so you can see it on the ground) and it must be of HI-Vis type. I would not want to walk across a field of extremely thin braid lines that you couldn't see. If you haven't participated in tournies you may not be able to appreciate what I am talking about.

Spinners gain ground (distance wise) when using very thin braid, and casting lighter lures. 

You want to compete with braid that has an equivalent diameter of 6 pound mono, fine let me use 6 pound mono on my conventional. It may take some serious dialing in of a conventional reel to be able to cast without break offs, but distances will be up as long as I am tossing enough weight to get ( and keep) the reel rotational speed tossing line slightly faster than the weights travel speed.

Spinners will only beat the conventionals when you force me to reduce the weight being tossed to the point where the weight doesn't impart enough energy (momentum) to get and keep my conventional spinning ahead of the weights velocity.

The whole principal of the conventional reel *IS* to toss line off, allowing the sinker to only have the issue of towing the trailing line, not to force the weight to work in regards to using energy to aid in the rotation of the reel.

With spinners, the weight is forced to do more and more work as the cast progresses, and the weights speed (momentum) is impeded by the continuous friction it faces, *IN ADDITION*, to towing the line behind it.

The properly tuned conventional should only have to deal with towing the weight of the trailing line.


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

What Surfcat said about the friction part is what I have been saying all along. A spinner throws big loops of the spool, these big loops are what cause the friction going thru that first stripper guide. This is probably the idea behind braids smaller diameter(besides the fact it's stronger and doesn't need to be as large a diameter as mono). Still the test is a good excuse for a new rod.

CB


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

Hit 906' with All Star 12-9 one piece two pc. with Emblem 5500 6/20 Power Pro 150 gram casting wt.(35 -40 mph tail wind) This is a statement to the effects of small diameter lines

this was done by a fellow new jersey surf caster named gary born.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

fish bucket said:


> Hit 906' with All Star 12-9 one piece two pc. with Emblem 5500 6/20 Power Pro 150 gram casting wt.(35 -40 mph tail wind) This is a statement to the effects of small diameter lines
> 
> this was done by a fellow new jersey surf caster named gary born.


.

I know Gary, heck of a caster, but its definitely more of a testament to a 35-40mph tail wind, than a testament to small diameter line. Matter of fact, with a serious enough tail wind a thicker line will carry better, because it's easier caught and carried by the wind.

It's a major hindrance to cast heavy line into a wind, but not with the wind at your back.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

little clarification.

A big tail wind can grab the line and actually force it out front of the sinker, since the line is lighter in weight.

I have (tried) fishing in severe conditions where the wind was strong enough to cause lift on the line and due to a light lure and bow in the line, the lure was like a kite, hovering over the water, but wouldn't touch down because the wind caused enough bow in the fishing line to have enough "lift" to keep the lure airborne.

Strange but true.


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

Well seeing how I'm a 700'+ tournament caster and have thrown 800' on the practice field, guess I will just have to give up fishing with my conventional gear and go to braid and spinning. I should be able to throw 1500' with what all of you guys are saying about this stuff.

CB


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

Ok this the last I will say on this subject. They did some test here casting 150gram tourney weight with .28mm(8lb) versus .31mm,.33mm and.35mm(various 12lb line) to see if there was a big difference in distance obtained. The conclusion was that there was not a big enough difference(maybe 20' to 30'). So I can see an increase of maybe 50' or 60' with 6lb eq. braid and I might even stretch that to 100' for a seasoned tournament caster like Tommy or myself. But I can't see the 300' to 400' you guys are saying. Oh,you can ask Nick Meyer about this test since he was the one who did it. And I still see an excuse to by or build a new spinning rod.

CB


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

waywack40 said:


> Anyone have info or comments on relative distance (fishing) when using mono on a conventional vs braid on a spinning reel?


For me the spinner wins without question and when taking the less than favorable conditions we fish in, a spinner enlarges the area in which I can place baits.

I have owned and still own some of the best casting _fishing_ conventionals but none of those can compare (in my hands) to my engineered for distance spinning set-ups. A 500ft cast with a bait on a conventional requires (for me) all the casting planets to be in alignment. With my spinner all that's required is not having a more than 15mph wind in my face.

With bigger baits and weights I'm still longer (and consistent) with the spinners. I have trouble with big floppy baits (even with very short leaders) on a conventional set-up. To me it's just not worth the grief.

I'm a mediocre caster on the field (low 600's @150gm casting OTG) but I do just use my everyday fishing spinning set-ups spooled with .31 mono. When I *fish* I use braid (20lb Suffix / 65-100lb braid casting leader) and my longest 150gm OTG distance _*set up as I fish with it*_ is well into the upper 600's.

There is no doubt braid does help a spinner cast further, often eclipsing what's capable of conventionals _in fishing conditions using fishing tackle._

I want to reiterate, I am discussing a total package here of rod and reel engineered for long distance fishing, not just throwing some PowerPro on a Penn 750 on a 12ft Ugly Stik.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

curtisb said:


> I can see an increase of maybe 50' or 60' with 6lb eq. braid and I might even stretch that to 100' for a seasoned tournament caster like Tommy or myself.


That is consistent with what i have experienced. The switch from .31 mono to 6lb equivalent braid on my engineered for distance spinners is worth about 50 feet; taking me from the low 600's into the upper 600's.


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

maybe it's just a matter of semantics.i know that line can come off a well tuned reel faster than the weight can pull it.thats why you have to thumb it or use magnets.but you can't push a car with a rope and the line can't push the sinker.

when mono is cast hard there is stretch which cause loss of energy,braid not having any stretch
should suffer no loss of energy.wouldn't that add 
more power to the cast with the same amount of effort?

in tournaments,why not have an open class where anything goes?any line,any weight,any length rod and any type of reel.that would settle a lot of ?'s


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*kinda figured*

This thread would bring Sgt. Slough out of hiding. 

Spinners in actual fishing situations do bear merit, no argument on that.

I just have much better control (directional)with conventional gear, and in fishing bragging rights go the fish catcher, not necessarily the distance caster.

Use what your comfortable with.

:fishing:


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

fish bucket said:


> maybe it's just a matter of semantics.i know that line can come off a well tuned reel faster than the weight can pull it.thats why you have to thumb it or use magnets.but you can't push a car with a rope and the line can't push the sinker.


LOL- your not trying to push the sinker- your simply trying to offer as little impedement to its progress as possible. A spinner can do nothing to aid the sinker, new designs _cut down_ on the amount of friction a spinning setup has to overcome, but can never reduce it to zero, whereas a tuned conventional should AID the cause by tossing line out behind the sinker.

It's simple physics. Assume you are pulling on a fire hose wrapped around a drum, and the drum is in free spool. If you have someone aid you by turning a handle on the drum you will expend much less energy than if you have to exert the energy to pull the hose- and spin the drum. Now run through some large hoops while the hose is wildly snaking back and forth- you now have to add the additional energy needed to pull the hose thru the large hoops, but the hose keeps slamming into the front of the hoop (first guide on a spinning setup). 

Tired Yet !


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

i see the analogy with mono but braid doesn't come off in coils.it is memory free so it goes easily through a very small gathering guide.and because of it's thinness even a long cast barely drops below the spool lip.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

fish bucket said:


> i see the analogy with mono but braid doesn't come off in coils.it is memory free so it goes easily through a very small gathering guide.and because of it's thinness even a long cast barely drops below the spool lip.


Agree with most of this, except that braid does come off in coils (need a very good camera to see this), and is forced to funnel thru the guides. The braid does a good job of overcoming some of the limtations a spinner faces compared to that same spinner throwing mono, no doubt about it. 

THe closest I can compare to on a conventional would be a very wide spooled reel with a stripper guide placed close to the reel. At the far left and right sides of the spool the close proximity of a guide to a reel would cause a slight angle as the line enters the guide, causing friction that will hinder the line, and if severe enough will likely cause a blowup on a conventional.

Not arguing that braid hasn't been a big boone to spinner distance, it has. I think it's an interesting concept- tho not allowed in actual tourny competition, it might be possible to toss braid on a practice day at a tourny. It would depend on the number of casters, braid brings so many safety issues into consideration, as well as the visual hassle factor.

Let's see if I can explain it. During a tourny you may have many casters, they cast out in turn, and once their cast is finished, they set the rod aside until everyone has cast. Assume we have 20 casters, at the end of the round you have 20 casts, spread out in various directions, all these lines are spider webbed out in the field, once everyone has finished casting everyone walks out together to retrieve their sinker and mark the distance, usually winding in their line as they walk towards their sinkers. All these lines are crisscrossed over each other, hi viz is needed to see and avoid stepping on each others lines, still tangles can happen, braid would be 

A. tough to see(see C- safety)
B a real mess if the winds blowing along the ground tangling the lines
C. a serious safety issue- if I trip over someones 12 lb mono I'm likely to break the line and keep trudging on, if I tangle my size 12's in a wad of braid I'm more likely to trip and break a body part as I slam into the ground. Also in a power cast if braid tangles around a rod guide during the cast it is more likely to impart damage to both rod and caster.

I do think it is worth evaluating, with only a couple of people casting at a time it would be doable, but it just doesn't lend itself to use in crowds.


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

i've been in tournies and the spiderweb of lines is an issue.limiting the amount of casters is one solution.also braid comes in a bright yellow now.
it would be interesting to see what a maxed out braided spinning outfit could do in competition.it would also prove/disprove some mono/braid issues.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

Surf Cat said:


> This thread would bring Sgt. Slough out of hiding.


Yeah, just couldn't help myself. I even shaved for the occasion . . . anybody need a big bag of beard?



Surf Cat said:


> During a tourny you may have many casters, they cast out in turn, and once their cast is finished, . . . everyone walks out together to retrieve their sinker and mark the distance


We have already dealt with this in the Fisherman's Casting Tournaments. Lot's of spinners with braid being used (it's Jersey after all







). Keep in mind too that many contestants had never set foot on a casting court and we completely avoided needing a med-evac chopper.


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

"big bag of beard"
am i the only one who finds that phrase hilarious?


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Sgt_Slough said:


> We have already dealt with this in the Fisherman's Casting Tournaments. Lot's of spinners with braid being used (it's Jersey after all
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good to hear the chopper wasn't needed 

Missed that event, maybe next year. I am certainly not adverse to the idea of spinners competing, would be tough I'm sure to get by the fellas in charge, 

Were any official results posted ? no doubt if spinners start making inroads to setting records, it would have to be given serious consideration.

I know rules would have to be changed- Not sure how they would get around the line diameter issue- currently the regs call for minimum line diameters, .31 or thicker for 150 gram class. any idea what that diameter equates to in braid ? , I'd have to guess maybe 40 or 50 lb braid?

IF they won't let me compete with mono that is thinner than a specific diameter, I don't think you'll see braid being allowed at a thinner diameter either.

Food for thought.

Interesting stuff.

:fishing:


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

.31mm is 12lb to 14lb in UK lines. We really don't have a manufacturer here in the US that makes it that size. Our lines run .33mm to .35mm for 12lb test on average. I have had to get line from the UK Diawa Tournament or Sokuma Nite Crystal to get .31mm For tourney casting. Also in mono the smaller the diameter the weaker the line(this is were braid has an advantage). And I guess it would be 40 or 50lb braid.

CB


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

I read on an advertisement that Power Pro is _claiming_ that 200lb power pro has a .030 diameter. Don't flame the messenger, just passing it on. LOL


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

The UKSF seems to be the ones who govern the line size. Use to be .35mm was the size for 150grm. Then it went for a short while to.32mm. Now it is .31mm. So we will have to see what it will be in the future.

If I remember correctly Big Lou's 150grm record was set using .35mm line.

CB


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

Surf Cat said:


> Were any official results posted ?


Yeah, 










Coming in third to Gary and Mark was an honor . . . 

I find it interesting that with all these convenc vs spinner threads seeming to be constantly popping up here and on SOL (there's a 5 pager going on right now) not many conventional guys show up (other than the Sportcast regulars) to represent at the fisherman's tourney. 

I realize there are a lot of cyberthumpers out there and a measured court would be Kryptonite for them but come on, show what ya got! Especially when so many continue with the old wives tale that conventionals ALWAYS outcast spinners . . .

Connman took 2006's honors with a conventional but others who were there (inc. Nick Meyer) had real trouble with the wind. Many guys couldn't mark a score in some events.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

Here are the results in each event in '06:

*Large Bait Event*
Name Class Distance
Conn Leahy Men 447.6
Rod Smith Men 402.2
Willie Longcaster Men 360.7
Chris Storrs Junior 355.0
Gary Born Men 347.1
Greg Smith Junior 343.3
Kurt Renart Men 336.0
Bob Crelia Men 333.5
Bob Bott Men 332.4
Mark Edwards Men 320.5
Charlie Portaluppi Men 317.1
Joe McGowan Men 310.1
Bill Kepnart Men 300.0
Dave Loschiavo Men 267.0
Carlos Rudoi Men 262.6
Stan Wierzbcki Men 248.0
Brenda Meyer Women 242.0
Jacob Renck Junior 225.5
Candy Portaluppi Women 203.1
Pat Young Men 199.8
Alex Strossier Junior 192.4
Lizzy Portaluppi Junior 132.4
Joe Helbe Men
Nick Meyer Men

*Small Bait Event*
Name Class Distance
Gary Born Men 593.6
Nick Meyer Men 591.2
Mark Edwards Men 574.2
Rod Smith Men 545.4
Conn Leahy Men 538.8
Joe Helbe Men 513.5
Charlie Portaluppi Men 513.2
Chris Storrs Junior 486.7
Kurt Renart Men 476.9
Willie Longcaster Men 474.6
Greg Smith Junior 439.7
Bill Kepnart Men 430.3
Bob Bott Men 419.0
Joe McGowan Men 412.0
Brenda Meyer Women 378.0
Dave Loschiavo Men 340.2
Stan Wierzbcki Men 327.5
Bob Crelia Men 300.0
Alex Strossier Junior 286.5
Jacob Renck Junior 284.6
Pat Young Men 236.7
Lizzy Portaluppi Junior 193.0
Carlos Rudoi Men
Candy Portaluppi Women

*Metal Lure Event*
Name Class Distance
Willie Longcaster Men 370.8
Conn Leahy Men 363.5
Gary Born Men 353.6
Kurt Renart Men 341.4
Charlie Portaluppi Men 323.2
Bill Kepnart Men 319.3
Mark Edwards Men 313.9
Rod Smith Men 311.6
Bob Bott Men 289.2
Greg Smith Junior 265.4
Carlos Rudoi Men 261.6
Chris Storrs Junior 260.4
Joe McGowan Men 249.0
Stan Wierzbcki Men 243.1
Alex Strossier Junior 235.4
Dave Loschiavo Men 224.3
Bob Crelia Men 223.9
Jacob Renck Junior 134.0
Nick Meyer Men
Joe Helbe Men
Brenda Meyer Women
Pat Young Men
Lizzy Portaluppi Junior
Candy Portaluppi Women

*Plug Event*
Name Class Distance
Gary Born Men 481.5
Rod Smith Men 473.3
Conn Leahy Men 463.0
Joe Helbe Men 444.1
Chris Storrs Junior 434.1
Greg Smith Junior 379.8
Kurt Renart Men 372.9
Charlie Portaluppi Men 343.0
Joe McGowan Men 327.2
Dave Loschiavo Men 327.2
Alex Strossier Junior 280.7
Bob Crelia Men 278.3
Bill Kepnart Men 256.8
Bob Bott Men 251.8
Carlos Rudoi Men 246.0
Stan Wierzbcki Men 199.0
Willie Longcaster Men
Mark Edwards Men
Jacob Renck Junior
Nick Meyer Men
Brenda Meyer Women
Pat Young Men
Lizzy Portaluppi Junior
Candy Portaluppi Women

*Four Event Aggregate*
Name Class Distance
Conn Leahy Men 1812.9
Gary Born Men 1775.8
Rod Smith Men 1732.5
Chris Storrs Junior 1536.2
Kurt Renart Men 1527.2
Charlie Portaluppi Men 1496.5
Greg Smith Junior 1428.2
Bill Kepnart Men 1306.4
Joe McGowan Men 1298.3
Bob Bott Men 1292.4
Mark Edwards Men 1208.6
Willie Longcaster Men 1206.1
Dave Loschiavo Men 1158.7
Bob Crelia Men 1135.7
Stan Wierzbcki Men 1017.6
Alex Strossier Junior 995.0
Joe Helbe Men 957.6
Carlos Rudoi Men 770.2
Jacob Renck Junior 644.1
Brenda Meyer Women 620.0
Nick Meyer Men 591.2
Pat Young Men 436.5


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

One other thing, in 2007 only high reel placement and straight layback ground casts or Hatteras casts were permitted. (Crowded beach scenario)

No low reel, pendulum or large rotation OTG casts allowed (all were permitted in '06).


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Sgt_Slough said:


> One other thing, in 2007 only high reel placement and straight layback ground casts or Hatteras casts were permitted. (Crowded beach scenario)
> 
> No low reel, pendulum or large rotation OTG casts allowed (all were permitted in '06).


That's interesting, I realize the goal is to simulate fishing conditions, but when you start restricting the ability to rotate the rod you will definitely lose distance. I can accept the fact that in crowds I 'm restricted for safety reasons, but asking someone to go toe to toe for distance, and then saying they're not allowed to power cast ?

Kinda defeats the point of it being a "distance" challenge.

One caveat- the unitech can be used in crowds, but will not garner the same results as an OTG with rotation. (I'm assuming your referring to the unitech when you say, straight laid back ground casts) 

Curious if Gary was using spinning gear w/braid for this event ?

Thanks for posting the results, recognized quite a few names- definitely interested in coming if they put this on again in '08.


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## Connman (Apr 14, 2001)

Gary uses braid and spinning , just like Rod, Kurt , Mark was spinning but not sure but think he used mono , although he uses braid for most fishing . Myself , Wille , Rob and Chris all used conventional and mono . 
Imho there isn't alot of different between either method for fishing for experienced casters . Less experienced casters will almost ways do better with braid and spinning ,they don't have to deal with reel control issues which as Rod said hurt even some experienced casters trying to cast a bait on very fast reels into the wind . 
Curtis , Nick held an unlimited even in Texas about 7 or 8 years ago , Big Lou and Nick and Jerry all tried casting very thin braid ,2 or 4lb test and didn't beat the distances achieved on their regular tournament mono reels .
For the fishermans casting event we allowed 12lb mono and 14lb braid . we didn't get over sciencetific on newer casters with actual line diameters etc . My 12lb mono measures .35mm . The reason for 14lb braid is that many guys fish 14lb fireline and also 20lb powerpro , so the 14lb rules allowed either of them to be cast . The tournament was supposed to simulate fishing not tournamnet casting .


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

Conn, you just answered in your last thread what I have been talking about. Even with small diameter braid these seasoned distance casters couldn't out cast there regular tourney gear with mono.

Also Conn, do you remember the spooner casting we had a few years back here(I think you were here). Jerry cast around 600' in high reel position(of course Jerry always throws high reel). We all found that throwing that 3oz spooner was easier in high reel. I threw around 500'. But I throw those 3oz spooners farther now with my Zziplex Powertex Bass and magged SX reel and 25lb Breakaway line. I took this set up with me one day to the practice field and with the hook removed from the spooner I was hitting just over 600'. But I was also using a pedelum cast and not a fishing cast.

CB


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

i was surprised at the head to head distances of braid/mono.
maybe it boils down to what you are most comfortable using.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

fish bucket said:


> i was surprised at the head to head distances of braid/mono.
> maybe it boils down to what you are most comfortable using.


I think there is a lot of truth in that. I will likely never be able to outcast my conventional heaver type set ups with a spinning set up, because I don't practice with spinners, except for light to medium tackle, where I think spinners come into there own.

Because I'm comfortable with conventional gear, I don't see the need to throw heavy weight and bait with spinning gear. As such I will never become proficient at bait fishing with spinners.

I think being inclined towards one or the other means if you stick with it you will becomes as good as you can with one method versus never or little practice with the other method. 

Given the current rules not allowing braid, as long as I am competing distance wise, I wil be practicing with conventionals, so fishing with conventionals adds to my "practice" time.

Lord knows I need all I can get.  

:fishing:


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