# question on level winds and shock leader knots



## Ron (Dec 2, 2003)

I have decided to buy my first conventional reel, an Abu Mag with a level wind . Is there a problem with the knot that attaches the 40#-50# shock leader to the line, when the knot goes through the level wind?


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## Newcaster (Dec 6, 2003)

It can cause a problem depending on the knot you tie. I strongly suggest you use a tapered shockleader to keep the knot as small as possible. I like the Varivas tapered shockleaders as well as the Drennan brand for my larger reels. IMHO tapered is the way to go with a levelwind unless you like using superlines.


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## SurfMan (Jun 4, 2003)

*I have an ABU 6500*

I use a levelwind as well and have never yet had a breakoff because of the knot hitting the levelwind. I uses 50lb PP tied to Ande 60lb mono with an Albright knot. Have to uses several more twists though with the PP and a pencil to wrap arount to get a nice tight pull. Never had a knot slip or break though!
- Surfman


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## longcaster (Oct 3, 2000)

*Official Welcome*

Hi "Ron",

At this time I would like to "Officially Welcome" you to the "Distance Casting" forum.


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## FisherDan (Jun 8, 2003)

I have had a 6500CS Mag blow up a couple of times when the shock leader knot hit the levelwind. What a blow up it is when this happens!! The line fluffs up all the way to the arbor knot, I think, but has no tangles. It looks neat as a pin but all/most of the line is fluffed up and loosely wound on the reel.

I use 20 lb. braid (PowerPro or Spiderwire Stealth). I use a long loop, about 4 feet long, tied using an Aussie Plait to double the line. The doubled line is wound on the spool and the 20 to 30 lb. mono shock leader knot is just outside the reel. An Albright will work to attach the mono. The advantages of the Aussie Plait is that it has an extremely low profile that sails through the levelwind and also is an extremely strong knot.

Search the web for "Aussie Plait" and you will come up with a couple of web sites that have excellent directions on how it is tied. Takes a little practice to get the hang of how the knot is tied, particularly the finish and it takes a few minutes to tie, but is an outstanding "knot" (actually a braid or weave), but is well worth the time spent.

Dan


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## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

I use an old Penn Jigmaster (I think that's what it is) and I used to have lots of trouble with the shock leader-main line knot hitting the levelwind. I took a flathead screwdriver that was a little wider than the levelwind space. I put this screwdriver between the two gide bars and turned it, widening the space. I have not had any more problems.

Another thing I have heard for distance casting reels: the levelwind puts extra drag on the line. Either buy reels with no levelwind or remove the levelwind from the reel you have.

I don't know wether this helps, but it's an idea.


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## Connman (Apr 14, 2001)

Ron , unless you do a lot of plugging or night fishing ,you should learn to use a conventional without a levelwind and just thumb the line back on the spool when retrieving . 
A levelwind means more maintance , some lose in distance and the occassional crack off from a shocker knot getting caught .
If you still want to use a levelwind , then tapers shock leaders (expensive and hard to find in USA)are good , if you are considering using braid then knot is less of a concern .


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## Billr (May 26, 2002)

ron. you have gotten excellent advice. use it well.


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## westcoaster (Aug 27, 2003)

FisherDan said:


> also is an extremely strong knot.
> 
> Search the web for "Aussie Plait" and you will come up with a couple of web sites that have excellent directions on how it is tied. Takes a little practice to get the hang of how the knot is tied, particularly the finish and it takes a few minutes to tie, but is an outstanding "knot" (actually a braid or weave), but is well worth the time spent.
> 
> Dan [/B]


I understand how to tie the plait, but I'm confused as to how you use it in this applications.. so you use the plait as your shock leader? or as the way to connect your mainline to the shockleader? And if it's the latter, the plait has three legs, are two of the legs your shock leader material?..

Hmmm.. actually I'm even more confused after reading my own words..


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## kingfisherman23 (Dec 14, 2003)

*A quick question...*

Does a doubled line leader work as well as a shock leader made from a differnet line?
I know that doubled lines are used for billfishing, but I've never heard of someone usuing them for casting. IMO, a doubled line would present no problem in casting, abd the knot would be smaller than a main line-shock leader knot. Maybe I'll try a doubled line this weekend when I choose my reel.

Input, recommendations or warnings anyone?

Evan


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## FisherDan (Jun 8, 2003)

Quote: 

"I understand how to tie the plait, but I'm confused as to how you use it in this applications.. so you use the plait as your shock leader? or as the way to connect your mainline to the shockleader? And if it's the latter, the plait has three legs, are two of the legs your shock leader material?.."

Let me start out by saying WHY I use this system. The Aussie Plait is the lowest profile knot that I know of and I have never experienced a problem with it hanging up in the levelwind guide.

I tie the Aussie Plait as a loop. Using the method of finishing the knot I am familiar with, the tag end exits a fraction of an inch from the end of the knot gets trimmed off. To net it out, I'm just using two "legs."

Using the Aussie Plait, I tie about a 5 ft. long loop for this application. An Albright knot is used to tie the doubled braided line to a 25 to 30 lb. mono leader. The Aussie Plait and about four feet of the doubled braided line is wound onto the spool of a levelwind reel. The Albright knot is much bulkier than the Aussie Plait and is much more prone to hang up in the levelwind guide, so it STAYS OUTSIDE outside the line guide AT ALL TIMES.

Just as Connman recommended, I use a levelwind reel exclusively for throwing lures in the 2 to 3 oz. range. The primary purpose of the long mono (or fluorocarbon) leader is stealth. Using the doubled braided line produces a stronger connection to the mono than a single strand of braid would. The 4 ft. or so of doubled braided line on the reel serves as a part of the leader system. The mono makes up the rest of the leader.


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## westcoaster (Aug 27, 2003)

I think I understand... So in effect the aussie plait LOOP, is your shock leader. Your 20-30 lb mono is just your " leader", as the albright and the 20-30 lb mono isn't wound onto your spool at all.

So how long is the 20-30 lb leader?

And, how far do you chuck your lures with that setup? ( what rod please)


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## FisherDan (Jun 8, 2003)

Westcoaster,

You've got it. I don't think of 20-30 lb. mono as a shock leader, but with 2 to 3 oz. lures, it sure satisfies the old 10 to 1 rule. I use the same method to attach a heavier shock leader, say 50 to 60#.

I use 20 lb. braid on a modified 6500 CS Mag Elite (6.2:1 gears, ball bearing levelwind, Xtreme Smoothie drag). Most of the time the reel is on a 10 1/2 ft. All Star 1265-2 rod. I can throw a 2 oz. Stingsilver reliably 130 to 135 yd. I'm 64, in more youthful and capabable hands, this combination will do a lot better.

I also use the same reel and line with a 40 lb. shock leader on an 11'9" All Star 1418-2 to throw a 4 1/2 oz. Hopkins with a single hook. I can cast this combination reliably 140 yd.

The yardages were measured field casting lures without hooks.

Occasionally, when I have to go long to reach the striped bass, I put the same reel on a Loomis 1448 to throw a 6 oz. Stingsilvers. I've never measured a cast with this combination, but it's probably about 140 to 150 yd. I've measured over 170 yd. with 30# braid on a non-levelwind 6500 CT and 5 oz on this rod.

Dan


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## Ralph (Aug 1, 2002)

*Varivas & Drennen*

ncaster, you mentioned two brands of tapered leader. where can i purchase these products.
now for the questions; is the leader strength consistent thoughout the entire length of leader? are the leaders sold in prefabricated lengths and if so how long is it. what # test do you use? 
ralph


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## Newcaster (Dec 6, 2003)

Jerrys of Morecambe, Veals Mail order, or Ron Sutton.org

The leader strength tapers from 15-20 lbs to 50 to 70 lbs depending on what you purchase.



















They come in precut lengths of 39 meters.

I use the Greased Weasel in 15/60 for my 15 lb mainline and the Varivas for my 17lb and 20lb mainline rigs. I like the Varivas a little better than the Drennan as they are smoother.


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## Ralph (Aug 1, 2002)

*many thanks!*

ncaster, many thanks! 

ralph


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## longcaster (Oct 3, 2000)

*Official Welcome*

Hi "Newcaster",

At this time I would like to "Officially Welcome" you to the "Distance Casting" forum.


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