# Ocean Master 12: How far?



## Carolina Rebel (Aug 25, 2005)

My heaver setup is a 525 MAG, bone stock, on an OM12 rod. Reel's spool has been balanced, bearings thoroughly cleaned and lightly oiled, magnets checked for proper polarity since I had to take them out and glue them in anyway since they had a tendency to leave their seat. Tossing an 8 oz. pyramid weight alone (no tennis ball or anything) I'm having trouble surpassing the 350' mark. Honestly, how far should I be able to throw with this setup? I'm primarily using a Hatteras cast, although I've messed around shyly with a pendulum cast and gained a little more distance. Hatteras puts me around the 330' mark.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

*A Rookies point of View..*

I guess it would depend on how you rate your casting ability!.. I'm a rookie, and with a similar combo (OM CP\Daiwa SHA 30) I can get around 125-130 yards with a ball.. What level do you have your mags set on? In my opinion 8oz 300+ feet is pretty good... I just had a conversation with a guy who fishes Outerbanks, and he told me that if you can cast 8&bait 125-130 yards you have a better chance gettting to the fish. So if you think about it this way you are almost there.... 




Carolina Rebel said:


> My heaver setup is a 525 MAG, bone stock, on an OM12 rod. Reel's spool has been balanced, bearings thoroughly cleaned and lightly oiled, magnets checked for proper polarity since I had to take them out and glue them in anyway since they had a tendency to leave their seat. Tossing an 8 oz. pyramid weight alone (no tennis ball or anything) I'm having trouble surpassing the 350' mark. Honestly, how far should I be able to throw with this setup? I'm primarily using a Hatteras cast, although I've messed around shyly with a pendulum cast and gained a little more distance. Hatteras puts me around the 330' mark.


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## FishinAddiction (May 9, 2006)

ok dont get me wrong here, the OM is a great rod for the money, but if you are wanting to add some serious distance,you probably want to explore into the world of customs. JMHO


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## Carolina Rebel (Aug 25, 2005)

FishinAddiction said:


> ok dont get me wrong here, the OM is a great rod for the money, but if you are wanting to add some serious distance,you probably want to explore into the world of customs. JMHO


And don't get me wrong, but for a just-out-of-college-about-to-enter-grad-school individual a custom rod, heck even a good blank is out of the question. I know fully well a Lami 1502, RS1569, Fusion, Inferno, HDX, or AFAW Beach would net me a good bit more distance but thats gonna have to wait.  
The reason I'm asking is so that I can check my technique and see how much farther I SHOULD be casting. I'm four hours away from the nearest practice field, and no one around here is serious enough to go past the 8' Shakespeare surf spinning setup so I'm learning everything myself. I'm not looking for serious distance, but I'm happy with what the OM does for the money and I'd like to milk all that I can out of it.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

I have been stuck at the 360' mark for awhile now. OM,HDX,Rainshadow1509,all right at 360'. With good technique I should be able to hit 400+ easy. The OM will do it if you can. JMO.


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## barty b (Dec 31, 2004)

For what it's worth...With good technique I can cast my OM light 3-6oz 550' on the field..I dont need that much distance for fishing but it will do it if needed. Those numbers are with a 525 mag, 15lb line, 4oz, with a double dropper surf rig and simulated (foam) bait. OTG cast. Arialized OTG nets a little more.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*beg, borrow or steal a video camera*

OK just kidding - don't steal it!

Seriously- the best way to critque your cast is to tape it. You can compare it to other casts posted on you tube and post it yourself if you want help with the cast.


Custom rods are nice but technique is more important- get that down with what you own now and when your ready for that custom job you'll be able to get the most out of a new heaver.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*Otg, Otg, Otg, Otg*

recommend learning the OTG before trying a pendulum, especially with 8 oz of weight.


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## Lip Ripper (Dec 8, 2003)

Carolina Rebel said:


> My heaver setup is a 525 MAG, bone stock, on an OM12 rod. Reel's spool has been balanced, bearings thoroughly cleaned and lightly oiled, magnets checked for proper polarity since I had to take them out and glue them in anyway since they had a tendency to leave their seat. Tossing an 8 oz. pyramid weight alone (no tennis ball or anything) I'm having trouble surpassing the 350' mark. Honestly, how far should I be able to throw with this setup? I'm primarily using a Hatteras cast, although I've messed around shyly with a pendulum cast and gained a little more distance. Hatteras puts me around the 330' mark.


that is the setup i started with, and i was stuck at about 330' for a bit, but after realizing my technique was crap,i started getting better. i can now get 500' out of it. 

iv been there dude, just keep on practicing and you will get it. but if you just want to hit big numbers, hold the rod parellel to the ground and spin about 400 degrees and let her fly. i used to do that all the time. it was pointless but it sure is fun


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## Carolina Rebel (Aug 25, 2005)

Surf Cat said:


> recommend learning the OTG before trying a pendulum, especially with 8 oz of weight.


Haha don't worry the pendulum casting was solo, well away from anything of value. It cost me too much shock leader though so I've avoided it since that first trial.


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*Distance*

If you are only casting in the 100 to 125 yard range a custom blank isn't going to get you any distance. you are nowhere close to maxing out that O.M. blank. As far as a Lami or most other customs that O.M. is capable of greater distance than most. Any one that tells you you can buy distance doesn'y have a clue. Unless you are capable of maxing out that O.M. which I think is capable of 600 ft plus with 8 oz.


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## FishinAddiction (May 9, 2006)

Carolina Rebel said:


> And don't get me wrong, but for a just-out-of-college-about-to-enter-grad-school individual a custom rod, heck even a good blank is out of the question. I know fully well a Lami 1502, RS1569, Fusion, Inferno, HDX, or AFAW Beach would net me a good bit more distance but thats gonna have to wait.
> The reason I'm asking is so that I can check my technique and see how much farther I SHOULD be casting. I'm four hours away from the nearest practice field, and no one around here is serious enough to go past the 8' Shakespeare surf spinning setup so I'm learning everything myself. I'm not looking for serious distance, but I'm happy with what the OM does for the money and I'd like to milk all that I can out of it.




I'm sorry. It looks like I offended you. I was just trying to help. 


Sorry Once Again,

FA


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Carolina Rebel said:


> My heaver setup is a 525 MAG, bone stock, on an OM12 rod. Reel's spool has been balanced, bearings thoroughly cleaned and lightly oiled, magnets checked for proper polarity since I had to take them out and glue them in anyway since they had a tendency to leave their seat. Tossing an 8 oz. pyramid weight alone (no tennis ball or anything) I'm having trouble surpassing the 350' mark. Honestly, how far should I be able to throw with this setup? I'm primarily using a Hatteras cast, although I've messed around shyly with a pendulum cast and gained a little more distance. Hatteras puts me around the 330' mark.


CR,

330' with an 8oz pyramid sinker and a Hatteras style cast really isn't bad. The OM is a proven, capable heaver and should give you room to grow. Same with the 525, great fishing and casting reel.

Physical size and strength play a role in distance but good technique plays and even bigger role. Video would be helpful but there are a few fundamentals you can practice that will probably help.

Practice the ground cast until you become profecient. I would recommend to stay away from the pendulum cast until you have the ground cast well in hand. For most fishing situations it is not very practical anyway.

Remember this, a well executed ground cast WILL outperform a poorly executed pendulum cast everytime.

Work on keeping the left arm extended until it is out in front of your eyes before begining the punch/pull. The single biggest flaw in most casters technique is a collapsing left arm. In other words, when the left is kept tucked nice and safe in close to the body you really don't have any room to "pull". 

Look up on the hit. Pick a target in the sky at 45 degrees to the horizon and cast to it. This will help give you elevation and directional control.

Most important, just relax and have fun. The distance will come.

Tommy


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

surf rat said:


> If you are only casting in the 100 to 125 yard range a custom blank isn't going to get you any distance. you are nowhere close to maxing out that O.M. blank. As far as a Lami or most other customs that O.M. is capable of greater distance than most. Any one that tells you you can buy distance doesn'y have a clue. Unless you are capable of maxing out that O.M. which I think is capable of 600 ft plus with 8 oz.


Just my opinion on casting 8oz for distance. Using a Hatteras style cast there are very few fishermen/casters that can throw 600' using tourney gear. Using a fishing rod and reel loaded with 17-20 lb test would make it even more difficult. There may be guys out there that can do it, but I would need to see it to believe it. My PB with fishing gear and 8oz measured in the field is just under the 600' mark.

No disrespect at all intended here. I have heard of the legendary 600' 8nbait guys as long as I've been surf fishing but I have never seen it on the field.

Tommy


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

surf rat said:


> If you are only casting in the 100 to 125 yard range a custom blank isn't going to get you any distance. you are nowhere close to maxing out that O.M. blank. As far as a Lami or most other customs that O.M. is capable of greater distance than most. Any one that tells you you can buy distance doesn'y have a clue. Unless you are capable of maxing out that O.M. which I think is capable of 600 ft plus with 8 oz.


Tima and again I hear "distance can't be bought"

That may have some merit initially for the beginner (then again lessons usually cost money too- so in effect you are "spending" money to get distance)

Fact is once you are ready you will get better distance with better rods and smoother reels.

Tourny guys don't buy Zzippies, Centuries, etc. and tricked out tourny reels because they like having empty wallets


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

*Dont get caught up...*

On a good day I'm in the 420(ft)+ range. I'll be the first to tell you I have a lot of work to do. I'm actually planning on getting some casting lessons from Tommy. Like I said I have the OM Cape Point, and I love the rod.. I have better rods, but the Ocean Master willl always have a place. Some people may not agree, but I get roughly the same distance with all my heavers; that's using the same reel. I might get 25-30 ft difference.. My opinion is when you get a expensive rod you get a better rod, but for the average guy I don't thing you'll get better distances.. This is from a guy getting a Custom AFAW (Dual Purpose) rod built.. 

I bet you a 6pack you could get 400-500 ft from that Ocean master once you learn the skill..




Carolina Rebel said:


> My heaver setup is a 525 MAG, bone stock, on an OM12 rod. Reel's spool has been balanced, bearings thoroughly cleaned and lightly oiled, magnets checked for proper polarity since I had to take them out and glue them in anyway since they had a tendency to leave their seat. Tossing an 8 oz. pyramid weight alone (no tennis ball or anything) I'm having trouble surpassing the 350' mark. Honestly, how far should I be able to throw with this setup? I'm primarily using a Hatteras cast, although I've messed around shyly with a pendulum cast and gained a little more distance. Hatteras puts me around the 330' mark.


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

Surf Cat said:


> Tima and again I hear "distance can't be bought"


The truth keeps repeating itself...



Surf Cat said:


> That may have some merit initially for the beginner (then again lessons usually cost money too- so in effect you are "spending" money to get distance)
> 
> Fact is once you are ready you will get better distance with better rods and smoother reels.
> 
> Tourny guys don't buy Zzippies, Centuries, etc. and tricked out tourny reels because they like having empty wallets


The "tourney" guys aren't the ones trying to buy distance. The "average" guys are. Most guys don't want to spend weekends at the football field, pay for lessons, and watch videos. They just want to walk into the store with a VISA card and then walk out onto the beach and impress their buddies with 300 yard casts.

The faulty logic is that the "average" guy can be transformed magically overnite into a "tourney" guy if he finds the right rod and reel. 

"Yesterday I could cast 80 yards, but now that I've got a (fill in the blank) reel and a (fill in the blank) rod, I'm hitting 300 yards on every cast".

If that was true, we'd all be tourney guys.

Remember your golf analogy? Ask yourself three questions:

1. Can you hit Tiger Woods driver 380 yards?

2. Can you hit your driver a hell of lot farther than Tiger Woods could hit your driver?

3. Are most people willing to put the effort into learing to cast that Tiger Woods put into learning to hit golf balls?

Three NO answers I'd imagine. If I could buy a set of golf clubs that made me play like Tiger Woods, you'd be watching me play golf on TV instead of posting fishing reports on P&S.

The other part of human nature that you have to remember is this. Once the average guy has bought a $400 rod, and a tricked up $500 reel, and gone to the beach and figured out that he can throw it basically the same distance that he throws his $200 setup, he's not about to come running to P&S and tell the whole world he made a mistake and flush all his Fishing Macho down the drain in front of the whole world...

What really makes me wonder is, if all these Niplex, Rainlocker, Slamiglass, Whambam rods are SO wonderful, why are A) people selling them every day on P&S and B) the guys who already have all of them are always looking for something new? 

Chasing the magic with a VISA card seems to me....


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Up and coming tourney guys are the most obsessed I know when it comes to trying to buy distance. Maybe, just maybe the latest greatest zziplex will give me that extra 50 feet.....

Been there, done that. 

Good equipment is essential if you want to be as good as you can get. For the average fisherman though, quite often high end tourney gear will actually cause the distance to drop. If you do not have the skill to load the rod, a zziplex XTR or a century TTR will only cause frustration.

The real answer to more distance is to learn a powercasting technique matched with a rod that is up to the task. OTG, Pendulum, even the Hatteras cast will give you good distance if executed properly, with the right rod and reel. 

It doesn't have to be a super whamadine niplex slamiglass either.....



Tommy


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

I think in most aspects you are absolutely correct. But there is a balance that can be achieved. In Carolina Rebel's initial question he is trying to determine what would be the maximum distance he should be able to get out of the OM given his ability and expertise. When he has improved his style to a certain point then a step up in equipment would let him be able to achieve a little more. At some point you will hit a wall and usually it is your ability/skill. However CR's question is not an easy one to answer and really only he can answer it. Always go for an improvement in technique and if you feel you can do no better then maybe step up to better equipment. 

My buddy fished many years in the surf and 3 years ago just stepped up to a custom rod. He worked his skill up through the classes of rods until he determined that the equipment was holding him back and not his technique. This progression has been over the course of 15 years so you see it wasn't a sudden jump to a custom rod from an OM heaver.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

good point..



Surf Fish said:


> The truth keeps repeating itself...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

*Analogy..*

I see it this way... For you guys who play basketball. You know when you and the boys are playing a game of pick up ball, and this guys walks on the court with the latest and greatest AIR JORDAN's, with the matching outfit. Normally he has very limited skills, and the guy with the beatup Chucks normally dunks on him! LOL 

I'm normally I pretty humble guy, but at times (like all of us) my ego can get the best of me.. I was at Matapeake opening day,and I took out my HDX with my penn 525. Just knowing I was going to be one of the better casters out there. Some guy 60 years old out casted me (by 40 yarss)with a Wally World 8 foot rod.. LOL 

So that's why I'm out trying to learn the skill to become a better caster..




cygnus-x1 said:


> I think in most aspects you are absolutely correct. But there is a balance that can be achieved. In Carolina Rebel's initial question he is trying to determine what would be the maximum distance he should be able to get out of the OM given his ability and expertise. When he has improved his style to a certain point then a step up in equipment would let him be able to achieve a little more. At some point you will hit a wall and usually it is your ability/skill. However CR's question is not an easy one to answer and really only he can answer it. Always go for an improvement in technique and if you feel you can do no better then maybe step up to better equipment.
> 
> My buddy fished many years in the surf and 3 years ago just stepped up to a custom rod. He worked his skill up through the classes of rods until he determined that the equipment was holding him back and not his technique. This progression has been over the course of 15 years so you see it wasn't a sudden jump to a custom rod from an OM heaver.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Tommy said:


> Up and coming tourney guys are the most obsessed I know when it comes to trying to buy distance. Maybe, just maybe the latest greatest zziplex will give me that extra 50 feet.....
> 
> Been there, done that.
> 
> ...


Agreed Tommy- was thinking about this while out at lunch- I don't have a problem with the *sentiment* behind the statement- *you can't buy distance*. Of course that is meant to say that you can't sit on the couch for the next 6 months, order the latest custom heaver and go out there and think your going to nail big distances during the fall drum run, just because you spent money.

Casting is hard work, takes time to learn, and you have to be willing to commit to it if you want to improve. That being said I still feel you should buy the best equipment that you can afford as long as it fits your abilities, and as long as you are willing to make the commitment to put in the time and practice.

I think too often the thought is well - I'd like better equipment, but right now I'm not good enough to justify spending the money. It isn't about how good you are today, it's about how good you want to be tomorrow. In other words - How bad do you want it?


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

cygnus-x1 said:


> My buddy fished many years in the surf and 3 years ago just stepped up to a custom rod. He worked his skill up through the classes of rods until he determined that the equipment was holding him back and not his technique. This progression has been over the course of 15 years so you see it wasn't a sudden jump to a custom rod from an OM heaver.


With today's choices I think some money can actually be saved over the long haul buy paying for better equipment up front , that isn't too much for you at first but still leaves room for you to grow into it.

I've been down the path of OM, Tica, Tsunami, Ugly stick, you name it- and spent more money on equipment that never sees the light of day anymore. I guess we all tend to go through that progression- just saying I would have saved money in the long run buy skipping the budget rods- I'm in no way trying to be snotty or saying the equipment mentioned won't cut it- we all have our own budget to work with and by all means buy what you can afford.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Surf Fish said:


> The truth keeps repeating itself...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lots of truth to what your saying their Surf Fish.

Lot of people looking for a "magic pill". 

To bore ya all some more I went down the same path in golf.

First a learners set, Given to me so no big deal

Next an upgrade to the cheapest Calloway's, still $599.

Then the Titleist irons $700.00, and fihally a premier set of Titleist irons $899.

At least a dozen different drivers, different putters, wedges- you name it- here again could have saved big money by going straight for the best stuff- Of course best is relative and it takes time and (unfortunately) money to discover what works best for you.


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## Flipper (May 6, 2006)

barty b said:


> Arialized OTG nets a little more.


How do you do one of these? Just curious.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

*mixed feelings..*

I agree, but then I dont'. I have all the rods mentioned, but I am not sure the average fisherman can out grow a good middle of the road rod.. You do distance casting so it may be different for you. For me (average fisherman) I dont think my skills will ever be greater than the potential of a decent rod...



Surf Cat said:


> With today's choices I think some money can actually be saved over the long haul buy paying for better equipment up front , that isn't too much for you at first but still leaves room for you to grow into it.
> 
> I've been down the path of OM, Tica, Tsunami, Ugly stick, you name it- and spent more money on equipment that never sees the light of day anymore. I guess we all tend to go through that progression- just saying I would have saved money in the long run buy skipping the budget rods- I'm in no way trying to be snotty or saying the equipment mentioned won't cut it- we all have our own budget to work with and by all means buy what you can afford.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

kmw21230 said:


> I agree, but then I dont'. I have all the rods mentioned, but I am not sure the average fisherman can out grow a good middle of the road rod.. You do distance casting so it may be different for you. For me (average fisherman) I dont think my skills will ever be greater than the potential of a decent rod...


That's sort of the dilemma we all face, going thru choices and worrying about making the right decisions that we won't regret later on.

I have a buddy who started surf fishing the same time I did a few years back, he's still very happy using his first bought equipment and isn't worried about going "custom" any time soon.

If only I could be a bit more like that !

Then again, as I said earlier it's all about how bad you want it (distance) that is  

Is distance all that important when fishing - he generally catches as much as I do, so no not really- but ocassionally- I will reach fish when he can't


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

kmw21230 said:


> I agree, but then I dont'. I have all the rods mentioned, but I am not sure the average fisherman can out grow a good middle of the road rod.. You do distance casting so it may be different for you. For me (average fisherman) I dont think my skills will ever be greater than the potential of a decent rod...


To better address the question at hand I think your right to a certain degree. Some average fishermen that aren't concerned with distance will never outgrow the cheaper rods.

I need to caution that when someone does come to the distance board in search of learning how to apply power in obtaining distance- some cheaper rods simply won't stand up to a power cast- once you learn how to apply power continuing to use a cheaper rod becomes a serious safety issue. Some will try and hopefully not get hurt, as they see a rod shatter during a cast.


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## EugeneChoe (Aug 11, 2006)

haha ok i dont normally do this but im in a writing mode....
i dont know too much bout all the fishing rods in the world but i do know a lil bout golf and equipment and if i apply graphite golf shaft technology to fishing rods. i stand firm with the idea that distance CAN be bought...to a certain point. 
no you cant expect to hit tiger woods driver the same distance as him but i bet with the same exact golf swing, if you take his driver head and put a shaft that matches your swing speed you can get a considerable amount more distance than a top of the line driver from 5 years ago, (esp with the "hi-cor" drivers of today). 
i would like to believe that there is a reason for all those golf companies as well as with any sporting goods co. to spend millions on millions of dollars on r and d for the newest technology. also the numbers dont lie, in fact in the last 10 years the average golf drive has gone from 260 to 290 (data
and thats due to advancements in technology; clubheads and graphite shafts.
if the producers and makers of fishing rods follow the general rules of the market, where in order to sell the product, the product needs to meet the market demand, and the demand for an inferior product is less than that of a "better" more advanced product, well then therefore without much personal experience with the many new fishing rods out there, (with some common sense) im sure the new fishing rods are much better (lighter, stronger, more sensitive, and longer) then the fishing rods of yesterday, and will continue improve. 
so i do believe that you CAN buy distance, but as firmly as i stand by that, i also know that without technique you cannot maximize the capablities of the golfclub or the fishing rod. "you cant beat physics."

....ok im in dork mode, just finish 2 essays, one more to go, and 4 more exams. i go back to work now. almost done, a week and a half!! then i wanna go fishing!! 

eugene


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## Carolina Rebel (Aug 25, 2005)

Haha Eugene, I know how writing mode goes, been there more times than I care to recall. Drinking beer around the time an essay was due always put me into writing mode, you should see some of the Facebook messages resulting from this reaction. That aside.....
Thanks everyone for all the replies. I've spent alot of time this week (haha almost all of my free time) studying casting videos. I'm going to go this weekend and put some serious time into developing my OTG cast into something reasonable. My confidence is definitely sky high now as far as my equipment goes, now its just on me to turn this confidence in my equipment's potential into physical results! 
As far as buying distance, I believe its like anything. I'm not a golfer, but I'm an avid bass fisherman. I know the vast majority of Zebco/Ugly Stik fishermen aren't going to catch many, if any more bass if you hand them a Calais TE-DC/GLX combo to use. They just won't have the skill to utilize this equipment to its potential, and thats the same situation with distance casting. 110 yards is nowhere near the maximum potential of the OM12SC/525 Mag combo, so at this point in the game a custom rod is simply not going to give me much, if any, gain. Honestly if 400' with 8 'n bait is really attainable with this setup, I'm not sure I'll ever need anything more. Maybe when I'm a little older and want something less challenging to load, but I'll never be a competitive distance caster so I don't think I need any more than that. 
Thanks again for all your help everyone, and I'll let you know how this weekend goes. Hopefully I'll still have a little shock leader left on my nice new spool of 60# Ande after its all said and done! I'll try to start slow to make sure I do.....


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

Well, to answer the first question about how far you can expect from an OM-12....

I was just in the field, with my OM-12 Heavy and a 30 SHA, spooled with 20#, throwing a 5 oz, very aerodynamic sinker.

Distance achieved...425-450'.

I also tried out my Star Stellar 11' 4-8 oz, 525 Knobby, spooled with 17#, throwing a 4 oz. sinker.

Distance achieved...425-450'.

Technique is my ugly, but effective, 'Neck-Tech cast...

Now these are all FISHING set-ups, not "Super-extra-bull-gonad-testomax-500" type rods.

I have toyed with "Distance Casting" using an HDX, Abu 5500 CT full of 12#, and 5 oz. My BEST EVER measured cast was 502 feet. This was my most powerful rod, matched with my most pimpin', fastest reel.

BUT I WOULD NOT WANT TO FISH WITH THAT COMBO... 

I have come to the point where I'm getting all I'm gonna get, UNLESS, I move up to learning some SERIOUS distance technique, such as a perfect OTG, or pendulum. Not very useful for fishing, so I'm holding off on those for now.

As to the question of when do you need to move up in quality from your current equipment...You'll know. 

One of your el-cheapo rods will EXPLODE under the power of your cast... 

I've had this to happen twice, but it is not something you are gonna run into with the OM 12 Heavy...

There's a nickle's worth from the Resident *******...


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## barty b (Dec 31, 2004)

Flipper said:


> How do you do one of these? Just curious.


Pretty much the same as a Hatteras cast except you dont swing the lead straight out behind you, You swing it back to the right so it is in the "position" of an OTG, Just arialized.. It is basically a very mild pendulum, perfectly safe for normal beach conditions if useing the PROPER shock leader test.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*CR Beg to differ with ya*

But if I could get the same distance with an off the shelf rod.. My question is why am I building rods then. Get a k-mart driver you will only hit the ball so far.. Get a Ping or a Calaway or a Big Bertha and your distance will increase drasticly.. Same with quality graphite, as opposed to chinese crap.. JMHO... JAM


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## Flipper (May 6, 2006)

barty b said:


> Pretty much the same as a Hatteras cast except you dont swing the lead straight out behind you, You swing it back to the right so it is in the "position" of an OTG, Just arialized.. It is basically a very mild pendulum, perfectly safe for normal beach conditions if useing the PROPER shock leader test.


Thanks. Sounds like it would be more powerful than the hatteras.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Flipper said:


> Thanks. Sounds like it would be more powerful than the hatteras.


It can be, but takes a good bit more room to perform. Hatteras is safer in crowds.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

JAM said:


> But if I could get the same distance with an off the shelf rod.. My question is why am I building rods then. Get a k-mart driver you will only hit the ball so far.. Get a Ping or a Calaway or a Big Bertha and your distance will increase drasticly.. Same with quality graphite, as opposed to chinese crap.. JMHO... JAM


Cheers to that :beer: :beer: 

The other thing about quality gear is it will simply outlast the cheaper stuff- so if ya think about having to replace cheaper gear more often- how much money are you really saving ? opcorn:


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## sand.trout (Oct 31, 2006)

There is some good stuff on this thread.
I don't think theres been a day that i haven't learned something new on here.

I on the other hand am one of those guys that has hit the wall until I get out there and polish up my technique.

Rods, I own and cast are R/S 1569, R/S 1509, ALL*1509, Ballistic, and the HDX. On any given day I'll out cast one with the other and vice versa.
I will agree that I knew exactly when it was time to up grade.
I left behind my TICA, Penn Pro guide(favorite) and my OM a while back.
BUT there is nothing I don't like about OM heavy


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## FishinAddiction (May 9, 2006)

I had something interesting happen. When I first switched over from my Ticas to customs, I actually lost distance because these rods load so much differently. So naturally timing was an issue I needed to work on. Once I got that down, I had to re-vamp the way I applied power to customs vs Ticas. It's a re-building process to me in some ways, but once I had "re-built" my cast on the customs, it was better and longer than ever. So be aware that the change will take some getting used to.


FA


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## surf rat (Jun 30, 2004)

*O.m.*

I said it before and I'll say it again. There is no way any custom 12.5 or even a 13 ft rod on the market what will blow away the O.M. with eight and bait.On the other hand when it comes to casting all day fighting fish or even holding all day there are lots of rods that will blow it away. The only reason I use a custom blank is because they are for the most part lighter. The new factory breakaways and even a Loomis are very light and strong though. Don't get me wrong I have lots of custom blanks, but if you think you can cast farther than some of the factory blanks are capable of you are wrong!


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

amen



surf rat said:


> I said it before and I'll say it again. There is no way any custom 12.5 or even a 13 ft rod on the market what will blow away the O.M. with eight and bait.On the other hand when it comes to casting all day fighting fish or even holding all day there are lots of rods that will blow it away. The only reason I use a custom blank is because they are for the most part lighter. The new factory breakaways and even a Loomis are very light and strong though. Don't get me wrong I have lots of custom blanks, but if you think you can cast farther than some of the factory blanks are capable of you are wrong!


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## Lip Ripper (Dec 8, 2003)

EugeneChoe said:


> haha ok i dont normally do this but im in a writing mode....
> i dont know too much bout all the fishing rods in the world but i do know a lil bout golf and equipment and if i apply graphite golf shaft technology to fishing rods. i stand firm with the idea that distance CAN be bought...to a certain point.
> no you cant expect to hit tiger woods driver the same distance as him but i bet with the same exact golf swing, if you take his driver head and put a shaft that matches your swing speed you can get a considerable amount more distance than a top of the line driver from 5 years ago, (esp with the "hi-cor" drivers of today).
> i would like to believe that there is a reason for all those golf companies as well as with any sporting goods co. to spend millions on millions of dollars on r and d for the newest technology. also the numbers dont lie, in fact in the last 10 years the average golf drive has gone from 260 to 290 (data
> ...



im pretty sure about 99% of the pros still use steel shafts.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Lip Ripper said:


> im pretty sure about 99% of the pros still use steel shafts.



Not in their drivers- most use graphite- albeit expensive extra stiff shafts with low torque- not a shaft that is going to help a mid- handicapper.


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## Elkhunter (Jun 18, 2004)

I'll share a novice opinion. I had trouble breaking 395' with a hatteras type cast. I decided to go down and take Tommy up on the clinic he put on in Shallotte on the practice day for the Sports Cast USA SE Tourney. The one thing I brought back from that was Technique makes a huge difference. I had never used or attempted the OTG cast. This is what Tommy asked us to use there. 1st attempt yielded 406' best for the day was 425'. This is with my 1418 and 6500 Mag Elite 17# suffix and 150g. Mags were set @ 50% and left alone in flight. I'd say as other have Learn this cast. I'm still practicing it and will for a time to come. it isn't always practical on the beach IMHO. But very worth while.


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## EugeneChoe (Aug 11, 2006)

im sure 100% of the pros use graphite in their big dogs. 

the thing about steel was that it was more accurate, but again with such advancements in shaft tech. theres no need to put a steel shaft in their drivers and give up the distance. also i remember when tiger used to run a steel shaft in his 3 wood...dun think he does that anymore either. hmmm
but yeah if you wanna be all nitty picky, even the steel shafts have have a huge selection of different flexes and other characteristic differences to choose from. and yes the technology in steel shafts has improved as well. the right steel shaft will also improve a persons distance and accuracy.
...again im no expert, but id like to think i know a lil.

eugene


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## Carolina Rebel (Aug 25, 2005)

Update:
Went to the field to practice some this weekend. I started out carefully following the technique as I'd learned it from videos. My first cast I had maybe 2' of line from rod tip to 8oz. weight, did a mild Hatteras cast and I was surprised to see that even with an easy cast, by following the technique I was able to hit the 300' mark no problem and with no fluff on the reel's part. I retrieved and began casting harder, and I've got to say I've never cast that many times, in that much wind (cross/head wind) with absolutely no fluff. I wound up putting the mag on 2 just to be safe, and played around with it on 0 with no problems. As my confidence rose so did my casting distance, and soon I was putting cast after cast at 330' casting fairly easily without a hard 'hit', or push-pull. A little harder and I was hitting 350', no fluff and no problem. My confidence soaring, I decided to put a little oomph into my next cast. I allowed 6' of line out from tip to lead, got it swinging slowly, timed it as I had been and went to swing around harder than my previous casts and POW!-----thud.

My shock leader broke and sent my weight flying a good ways across the field. It buried in the sand and dissapeared. I had been using a uni knot to tie the weight on, should I be using another one? Or is 60lb Ande just not enough?

On another note, I decided to try the bimini twist and nailed it on the first try, haha talk about luck. Guess I'll keep the braid on the heaver a little longer (don't worry, I don't fish in crowds).


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

Where were you practicing? If you were on a field you may want to use a tennis\field hockey ball. Even a 200 yard field my not be long enough. I good crack off my easily travel twice the distance of your best cast. The last thing you want is for the 8oz sinker to be stuck in a windshield. When I practice I use a ball. you wont get the same distance, but at least if you crack off you won't put anyone's life in danger. IF you can hit 300ft with a ball you're really doing something... :fishing: 



Carolina Rebel said:


> Update:
> Went to the field to practice some this weekend. I started out carefully following the technique as I'd learned it from videos. My first cast I had maybe 2' of line from rod tip to 8oz. weight, did a mild Hatteras cast and I was surprised to see that even with an easy cast, by following the technique I was able to hit the 300' mark no problem and with no fluff on the reel's part. I retrieved and began casting harder, and I've got to say I've never cast that many times, in that much wind (cross/head wind) with absolutely no fluff. I wound up putting the mag on 2 just to be safe, and played around with it on 0 with no problems. As my confidence rose so did my casting distance, and soon I was putting cast after cast at 330' casting fairly easily without a hard 'hit', or push-pull. A little harder and I was hitting 350', no fluff and no problem. My confidence soaring, I decided to put a little oomph into my next cast. I allowed 6' of line out from tip to lead, got it swinging slowly, timed it as I had been and went to swing around harder than my previous casts and POW!-----thud.
> 
> My shock leader broke and sent my weight flying a good ways across the field. It buried in the sand and dissapeared. I had been using a uni knot to tie the weight on, should I be using another one? Or is 60lb Ande just not enough?
> ...


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## Carolina Rebel (Aug 25, 2005)

It was a field way out in the boondocks, serves as a part-time shooting range. Haha truck was parked back 100yds behind some trees, for safety's sake. That break off really surprised me, believe that's the first non-fffffffffffffffff-POW! I've had. Usually my breakoffs occur because the reel blows up early in the cast.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

Ok, sounds good... Those breakoffs happen to me when I get big headed and try to do too much,, lol..




Carolina Rebel said:


> It was a field way out in the boondocks, serves as a part-time shooting range. Haha truck was parked back 100yds behind some trees, for safety's sake. That break off really surprised me, believe that's the first non-fffffffffffffffff-POW! I've had. Usually my breakoffs occur because the reel blows up early in the cast.


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Carolina Rebel said:


> Update:
> Went to the field to practice some this weekend. I started out carefully following the technique as I'd learned it from videos. My first cast I had maybe 2' of line from rod tip to 8oz. weight, did a mild Hatteras cast and I was surprised to see that even with an easy cast, by following the technique I was able to hit the 300' mark no problem and with no fluff on the reel's part. I retrieved and began casting harder, and I've got to say I've never cast that many times, in that much wind (cross/head wind) with absolutely no fluff. I wound up putting the mag on 2 just to be safe, and played around with it on 0 with no problems. As my confidence rose so did my casting distance, and soon I was putting cast after cast at 330' casting fairly easily without a hard 'hit', or push-pull. A little harder and I was hitting 350', no fluff and no problem. My confidence soaring, I decided to put a little oomph into my next cast. I allowed 6' of line out from tip to lead, got it swinging slowly, timed it as I had been and went to swing around harder than my previous casts and POW!-----thud.
> 
> My shock leader broke and sent my weight flying a good ways across the field. It buried in the sand and dissapeared. I had been using a uni knot to tie the weight on, should I be using another one? Or is 60lb Ande just not enough?
> ...


Glad to hear things are coming along CR. 

Nothing wrong with the knot your using. You just have to retie more often as you put extra oomph into the cast. This is especially true if you tie directly to the weight without a safety clip. 

When you say the shock leader broke I'm assuming at the end with the weight, not the end tied to your main line. Is this correct ?


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## Carolina Rebel (Aug 25, 2005)

Surf Cat said:


> When you say the shock leader broke I'm assuming at the end with the weight, not the end tied to your main line. Is this correct ?


Yep, it broke right at the weight. There's a fair chance it frayed somewhere along the way, but I'd been checking after each cast and not noticed any problem. Also, what kind of safety pin are you referring to?


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

Put a big snap swivel on the end of the shock leader, attach the sinker to that....


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*Surf Fish*

has the right idea. The safety clip I'm referring to is used by tourny guys but serves somewhat the same purpose as a snap swivel. If you tie a knot and cinch it down to a weight like a hattearas storm sinker the sinker has no room to rock back and forth, the knot impedes this during the swing and causes friction, which wears the knot out very quickly. 

You can check out the safety clip at the breakaway usa site. They are called split oval rings and look kinda like a heavy duty version of a paper clip. They are a good bit cheaper than expensive snap swivels- but snap swivels are more readily available- just make sure to use one of sufficient strength rating.


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## FishFeen (Aug 10, 2011)

cygnus-x1 said:


> I think in most aspects you are absolutely correct. But there is a balance that can be achieved. In Carolina Rebel's initial question he is trying to determine what would be the maximum distance he should be able to get out of the OM given his ability and expertise. When he has improved his style to a certain point then a step up in equipment would let him be able to achieve a little more. At some point you will hit a wall and usually it is your ability/skill. However CR's question is not an easy one to answer and really only he can answer it. Always go for an improvement in technique and if you feel you can do no better then maybe step up to better equipment.
> 
> My buddy fished many years in the surf and 3 years ago just stepped up to a custom rod. He worked his skill up through the classes of rods until he determined that the equipment was holding him back and not his technique. This progression has been over the course of 15 years so you see it wasn't a sudden jump to a custom rod from an OM heaver.



You have a great point!!! Very funny though, I have an OM 3-6 12 ft and I'm trying to get better than my 80-100 yds.


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## 9 rock (Nov 30, 2008)

If u buy a cape point rod and take the money u save and get a casting lesson from tommy u would benifit more than simply buying a better rod
yes there is big differance between a diawa beefstick and a custom rod but but the gap closes with rods such as om or tica, when it comes to every day fishing
The advantage of custom is more than just distance , the rod maker can determan what blank would be best for u eliminating buying several rods before u get to the best one for u
also the wraps the guides and seats will be by ur design not one of thousands,,,


9


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## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

I switched to a conventional OM 12' with a Avet SX MC about 2 months ago from a OM 12' spinning with a Shimano 6500 B BR. I gained almost 75' in doing this...BUT I can without a doubt say that it was from me being able to move better with the rod than anything to do with the reel/rod. 

Like you I NEED to look more at my cast than anything. Yes, I want to build  (not buy) a custom heaver, but with the limited time I am able to spend with my tooties in the sand right now, it really doesnt make sence. So I am going to work my OM until I have everything out of it.

Like was said before, you would be better off spending some time with someone who knows what they are doing and have them work your cast rather than upgrading. Think of it this way: when you learn to throw your middle of the road OM 500', it is going to be that much eaiser to throw a custom another 100' on top of that. 

NOW all that being said, I am at about 450' with 6oz bank sinker when I get a good cast right now. Keep in mind I muscle the hell out of it to get it to do that. My technique is $%^ so I have to force it. I am not a small guy and pretty strong, 6' 240# aka not real bright but I can lift heavy things...you get the idea. I have been slowing down my cast and trying to work on the technique. I am out to about 400' with A LOT less effort. As I get the swing better I will be able to better and more consitantly load the rod and get it to fly better. 

I am probobly going to get called on this; but MOST fisherman lie ***gasp*** I know, say it aint so. So get yourself a cheap wheel measure from Northern Tool or Harbor Freight, mine was about $25. This will give you a REAL idea of how far you are throwing. Get some small flags put at 100' intervals so you can just reel in when you see you have a crappy cast. And a last thing to remember, MOST of the guys that are big casters will cast b8n8 on the beach about 100-125yrds (300-400'). From what I read this is reality. All that extra drag of bait/hooks/bite leader etc kills a cast. 

AS ALWAYS I AM NO EXPERT!!! Most of my info comes from a lot of reading, a good bit of failure, and a small bit of success. The video is a good idea if you cannot get a lesson, I am planning on doing a e-lesson here soon. Hope you got a little something from my rambling .02. 
spydermn

PS
Hey Tommy, are you coming to the Charlotte area any time soon that you would want to teach a lesson 

C


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Lots of great info here. To much to quote, so just a few thoughts.

Anyone interested in improving their casts should make the trip down to shallotte NC next weekend for the Primo Championship. Friday is a practice/meet/greet day and wonderful chance to get casting help from some of the best casters in the country. These guys are not just tourney casters but very good fishermen as well. I'll be there all day and will be glad to work with you one on one as time allows.

Come on down.

A measured cast can indeed be a humbling experience. Most fishermen tend to overestimate their distance and that 500' beach cast can quickly turn into 300 when a tape, wheel or rangefinder is put to work.

Custom vs factory. The biggest advantage to a custom is that you get to choose the blank and all components then have the reelseat placed exactly where you want it. There are some very good factory rods out there and in most cases you get what you pay for. A great blank is the very heart of a rod, custom or factory.

When practicing the hatteras cast, start by laying the sinker down on the ground at the same angle as your pitch back. You can practice technique without a swinging sinker. Later you can work in the swing while maintaining the arm position and body rotation practiced off the ground. Just keep the leader taught. 500' + is doable with the hatteras cast.

Keep hitting it

Tommy


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## 9 rock (Nov 30, 2008)

I will take a expieranced caster and give him a cape point and then give a less expierenced caster a custom fit rod and all my money goes on the better caster
There is no subsitute for good tecnique and practice of that


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## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

No likely that I will be able to make it to Shallot, and if I am going to the beach this time of year I will have a bait in the water. Would love to cast with someone who knows what they are doing. I am sure it would help a ton!


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## 9 rock (Nov 30, 2008)

spydermn said:


> No likely that I will be able to make it to Shallot, and if I am going to the beach this time of year I will have a bait in the water. Would love to cast with someone who knows what they are doing. I am sure it would help a ton!


There are plenty of youtube videos of the hatteras cast and any other cast for that matter ,Tommy has several they are very good and worth watching

9


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Shallotte is very close to the beach. It would be time well spent if you want to improve your cast... 

Tommy


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## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

It is much more along the lines of a 4 month old and midterm exams that are keeping me from the beach (well that and a grumpy over worked, under slept wife. she needs a break more than I do)


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## scavengerj (Sep 10, 2007)

Thank you C R for posting your question and all of those who have provided their insight/skills/knowledge/experience.
I found this to be a very intelligent and helpful thread. 


DMS #525
AMSA #1102
OBPA


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