# Am I considering a conventional for the wrong reasons??



## 7.62 (Apr 15, 2011)

I’ve been reading thru the recent conventional vs spinning threads (heck, I even started one!), and have come to the conclusion that a beginner caster (me) with little time to practice (also me) probably won’t see a distance benefit by going conventional (increased distance was a factor in my consideration, and YES I know increased distance via conventional is a debatable position – *let’s not go there*). 

Aside from the possibility of more distance, the other reasons I am considering a conventional are: 

1) The clicker. I want a reel with a bait-running feature, and most conventionals have them. Getting a spinner with a secondary drag feature like the Shimano Baitrunners involves a reel with much more complicated internals (possibly more to go wrong), which makes disassembly and cleaning more problematic. In addition, are there spinners designed for distance casting (such as the Diawa Emblem) with this feature? I haven’t seen one with a spool quite like the Emblem.

2) Size and weight. I am not so concerned with the size and weight of a reel when it’s on a 12’ rod. However, I can see being able to move, say, a Saltist 20 from a 12’ rod to a 10’ or even 8’ rod if needed. Not so much with the larger spinners

The main reason I would consider a spinning outfit is the ease of casting and never having to worry about birds nests. I am sure I will do plenty of night fishing (I get in less trouble for missing family time that way!), so I’m sure a newb casting a conventional in the dark is a recipe for a broken rod (due to getting pissed off at my birds nests!!).


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

I was the same way. For years I was a spinner guy hands down. I fished with guys that were thumb burners and I loved watching them cast. It's an art. It truly is. I decided to try it out. I got me a slosh 20, and lost patience with it and went to what I knew best. Now....fast forward.....I decided to try it out again, this time I asked around and decided to get a Penn 525. Had a buddy of mine show me how to install extra magnets in it and went to the casting field. Did well for a beginner and fell in love with the reel and went and bought 3 more. I now have 5 525's and just recently purchased an Avet SX MC which I have fallen in love with. I know others here have had their problems with them but I really like it. You just have to take your time and PRACTICE!!! I am no where near MOST of the guys on here when it comes to thumb burnin but I enjoy it and do the best I can. My surf set up are 12'6 and the 525 and Avet work well.


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## bigjim5589 (Jul 23, 2005)

I have a couple of reels with clickers, all ABU's, and frankly they're not loud enough. But, I don't use them that often with the clicker so not a big issue for me, and when I do it's usually not in an environment loud enough, such as the surf, to block out the clicker sound. Most of the fishing I do get to do is in rivers & creeks. 

Size & weight is another thing everyone seems to be concerned about. If you cast lures all day or all night, then a heavier outfit will tire you faster than a lighter weight rig. With bait, you cast & let it sit much of the time, so I guess it comes down to personal preference. All my surf rigs are spinning, Diawa Beefsticks, which are fiberglass & heavy, paired with Emcast reels. I have conventionals I can use, but rarely do. I don't get to do enough surf fishing anyway. I'm not overly concerned with distance either. I'm sure in some situations it's needed, but again, for the little surf fishing I get to do, haven't found it to be a issue for me. Even with other types of fishing I do, distance is not a concern. I'm primarily tossing lures, and most of the time less than 100 ft, so I can use whatever to do it. I just prefer the baitcasters for lures. 

For folks who have never used a conventional, they do take some getting used to. Spinning is easier to do & learn. You can get twists in the line with spinning, but usually not as bad as a blow up on a conventional. I usually get bird nests when I'm not paying attention, get in a hurry or try to really over power a cast. That's when I get in trouble. I don't get pissed off when fishing, at least not at my equipment. Old age has a way of mellowing you. People disturb me sometimes.


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## Manlystanley (Sep 22, 2010)

7.62: It's taken me 18 months to get a good handle on the 525 mag. I started out with minimal problems, but then seemed to not really get proficient with it until just recently. I like it a lot (and have put in additional magnets as well.). Now it's kind of fun to cast.

If you do get a bait caster, make sure that you get a good rod. I love my Ocean master 10' [1-4 Oz lures]. Also, fi you get a baitcaster, try to get one that is easy to cast. You'll have enough problems doing the transition. I've heard that the Abu Garcia's C4's are good. But, I'll let others here correct me if I'm wrong.

Good luck!!

Best Regards,
Stan


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## Petersen (Apr 22, 2011)

Don't be skeered. It may take you a little while to get the hang of a conventional but once you learn it becomes second nature. There is a reason MOST serious fisherman throw conventional. I would recommend learning on something like a 7ft med hvy with a 6500 abu or something similar. Little easier to learn the fundamentals on something that size compared to 12ft om


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## SnowRider (Sep 6, 2010)

Just buy one...Penn 525 mag if you want to start out. Try it out about 12 or 15 times to figure out how to do it. Then get one that has all the clickers n shhh iitt. When you burn your thumb; then you learned how to use it......


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

never been a thumb burner ... my thumb don't touch the spool till splash down ... why loosin it way up and then have to drag your thumb ... adjust spool tension correctly and right amount of mag ... static or adjustable or none at all ... being smooth and giving it power late in the stroke with fix alot of that ... in night fishing there lays the problems with a conventional ... getting that feel of when it hits the water ... big advantge of spinning is you don't have to be right on it when it hits the water ... never used a baitfeeder either ... I just loosen the drag up so it barely holds and when a fish is on just walk over and pick it up and and tig. drag down a little and and start reeling ... unless you are live lining a live bait never seen the need for it and less to go wrong


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## SnowRider (Sep 6, 2010)

surfchunker said:


> never been a thumb burner ... my thumb don't touch the spool till splash down ... why loosin it way up and then have to drag your thumb ... adjust spool tension correctly and right amount of mag ... static or adjustable or none at all ... being smooth and giving it power late in the stroke with fix alot of that ... in night fishing there lays the problems with a conventional ... getting that feel of when it hits the water ... big advantge of spinning is you don't have to be right on it when it hits the water ... never used a baitfeeder either ... I just loosen the drag up so it barely holds and when a fish is on just walk over and pick it up and and tig. drag down a little and and start reeling ... unless you are live lining a live bait never seen the need for it and less to go wrong


Don't listen to him. He don't have a clue what he's talking about. You have to have to be a real man and work your thumb in. Look a mine. It's worked in guy.


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## SnowRider (Sep 6, 2010)

*Sucker don't know nuthing*

Look how bad it got. I had to take a break for a while cause I burnt out my thumb bro. It's all about control. Who needs gurly magnets anyway?


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

I've had the shock knot slice open my thumb (2) where I didn't have it offset to the side and my thumb not raised high enough


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

Those gurly magnets work very well.


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## plotalot (Apr 27, 2009)

7.62, since you had inquired about kayak fishing in another thread, I'd like to point out another reason to consider conventional reels. Casting distance from a kayak or any boat for that matter is a moot point. However, because of the cramped nature of fishing in a kayak conventional gear is preferred since everything is on top of the rod with all rotating parts, except the handle, contained within the reel. With a spinning reel everything hangs below the rod and the rotor is exposed while swinging your line in a relatively large circle as compared to a conventional where the line only varies in a horizontal plane. This is important to consider since you don't want to have the rotor banging you in the knees, your line getting getting hung up in rod holders or having a fast mover slam your rod into your lap then proceed to rip off 50 yards of braid, slicing its way to your femur.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

I use both, but I'm going to go against the tide and recommend you get a Shimano Baitrunner if you're soaking bait. They're bulletproof, the clicker on the secondary drag is loud enough to hear, and you can focus on the fishing instead of wigging out every time you have to throw. When it's dark, the wind is in your face, and you're wiped out from a day of fishing there are fewer chances for screw-ups.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

SnowRider said:


> Look how bad it got. I had to take a break for a while cause I burnt out my thumb bro. It's all about control. Who needs gurly magnets anyway?
> View attachment 7341


 If you're burning your thumb,you're burning your distance....


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## surffshr (Dec 8, 2003)

Drumdum said:


> If you're burning your thumb,you're burning your distance....


you should only need to apply thumb at splash down.
I find weights over 5oz easier with conventional. yes night time is trickier. Depends on how much time you're going to use your stuff once every 6 months for a week will be tough to learn new stuff. But I use the Saltist 20 and love them, There are some very good Buxton guys that use spinners and do quite well with them. It's really up to you. But you do have to have the patience to practice some.


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## Furball (Sep 20, 2002)

I have started to fiddle around with spinning reels and I find line twists and wind knots to be ten times worse than any backlashes that I have encountered with conventional gear. Another factor to keep in mind is how much lighter a conventional set up compared to a comparable spinning outfit. It's not so much the extra weight with spinning, its the center of balance being farther forward from the rod. Enjoy!


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## 7.62 (Apr 15, 2011)

plotalot - thanks for the reference to the yak. I have fished a few times in my yak (just freshwater) and I have found my spinning tackle easier to use than my baitcasting gear. Mostly because you're yak isn't always pointed in the ideal direction, and with other rods and whatnot sticking up, you've gotta cast in awkward positions to get to your target area, all while avoiding overhanging branches, etc. I have found that I can cast a spinner standing on my head (still in the yak). A baitcaster...not so much.

However, for jiggin or simply dropping bait below, I can definitely see a conventional being superior in every way. I went flounder fishing last year at the CBBT and couldn't have imagined using spinning tackle the way we were fishing.

As for the braid slicing to my femur...SHEESH! Well I guess that's one way to die in a yak!

I am strongly considering another spinning setup for for my "heaver". I have a lot going on in life and simply don't have the time to practice with a conventional. Although I find the idea of a convetional surf setup extremely alluring, I simply want my time on the sand to be productive. I don't want to spend time I should be spending fishing picking out bird's nests, etc. Especially since I will be doing a lot of night fishing...I think I would need to be a very proficient caster with a conventional setup in order to have a productive night.

I don't have my mind totally made up, but that's the way I'm leaning. Thanks to all for the input!

And I ain't impressed with the thumb burnin'. I'll take whatever pain is necessary in order to accomplish a certain goal, but I won't do it just to do it. Reminds me of a guy I shoot with who shoots a _modern_ muzzleloader but won't consider the black powder substitute Blackhorn 209, which is in every way superior to black powder in guns that will shoot it (easier to clean, burns more cleanly, won't corrode the firearm, strength won't diminish if charge is in left in the gun hunt after hunt, etc, etc). He (who, again, is shooting a modern muzzleloader) says something about not wanting to take the easy way.


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## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

SnowRider said:


> Look how bad it got. I had to take a break for a while cause I burnt out my thumb bro. It's all about control. Who needs gurly magnets anyway?
> View attachment 7341


Is that a thumb? I thought it was a looking down view of an albino turtle's head!


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## OceanMaster (Dec 22, 2011)

> I am strongly considering another spinning setup for for my "heaver". I have a lot going on in life and simply don't have the time to practice with a conventional. Although I find the idea of a convetional surf setup extremely alluring, I simply want my time on the sand to be productive. I don't want to spend time I should be spending fishing picking out bird's nests, etc. Especially since I will be doing a lot of night fishing...I think I would need to be a very proficient caster with a conventional setup in order to have a productive night.


The beauty of casting......whether it's spinning and or conventional......to be bullet proof during night and or day......practice on a large grassy field = perfection!

When I started fishing.....let's just say Conventional reels were the only long distance, big bait and big weight casting reel options available PERIOD! The surfman's casting reel of the day....PENN SQUIDDER (NO. 140) and on a lesser stance in casting performance....the PENN JIGMASTER (NO. 500) reels. The fishing lines used to cast were dacron braided lines called SQUIDDING line with line weight starting at 20lb test and soaring up to 200+. 

The only reels made by ABU...at this time....were 5000 to 6000 models that had small handles, very smooth but unpowered drags and the old ABUs literally couldn't cast lines over 20lbs without major issue...not enough line capacity on these reels at any line size over 12lbs and their respective drags, if you did opt to fill them with lines higher than 15lb test mono, could not handle the fight of a good 30-40lb surf hooked redfish. Many folks got spooled with that infamous thumb burn....at the end of the line's run right before it goes POP, using ABUs built during the 50s into the mid 70s. Daiwa just jumped onboard, Shimano wasn't even on the radar screen yet and reels offered to all.....only Penn covered us surfman with gear matched to cast...sand and all.....they kept casting!

Spinning reels of the day were big, heavy and clumsy things with super large spools and even larger guides......line whirring through the guides like a tornado making tons of drag...add a side wind, lord only knew how long you could cast without looping a guide and having it either rip off and or snap your line losing everything. I still remember the few that tried to hang with us using the spinning gear of the period...rated with drags and line backing to not only hook but land big fish from the surf.....land based fight....hook and land standing from one spot. Spinning reels and quality drags....they simply didn't go hand in hand and any fish that can run 100 yards of line off a reel with 20 - 30lb test fishing line, under high strain, will toast weak drag systems. Spinning reels with quality drag systems then as well as now.....= big bucks compared to a conventional reel of the same drag fighting strength. It's not all about the cast....it's also about how well your reels fighting drag can withstand the rigors of the battle...over and over and over again. On a good redfish run down here....you might have a day where catching 5-15 oversized redfish is easy to do in a 24 hour period but.....can your reel handle the pressure? Most spinners in the affordable category fade....after a few fish before their drags completely cave in.


Roll the clock forward......sure there are tons of excellent spinning reel offerings out there and as mentioned in many of the heated debates on conventional vs spinning....one thing will always stand clear.....everyone knows how to cast today's modern spinning gear a long way but.....there's only a handful out there that can do the same with conventional gear. With today's conventional casting gear, you should be able to pick up a modern day conventional reel like the AKIOS 600 series or 700 series with magnets and casting blocks to control the first few weeks of learning...before pulling out casting blocks and dropping the power of the magnets to a point, you are gaining tons in distance. Let's just say I can't birdnest my AKIOS 666 with her casting blocks and magnets set on full power. I tried...and I simply can't get the reel to overrun but...........I've been casting long rods since with conventional reels since 1970.....I've grooved my casting style to counter blow-ups using quality casting gear.....it's so much easier to cast conventional now than it ever has been!

If you are concerned with night time blowups using conventional casting gear, you can always add more magnets and casting blocks to help control overrun.


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## Peixaria (Dec 31, 2008)

Snowrider, If that is indeed your thumb and fishing related then you need gurly magnets like a kid needs training wheels. I have thrown conventional for quite a while now [15 years]and never injured my thumb like that. As a matter of fact some of the worst casting related injuries have been on big spinners with braid.
7.62 No one says you have to fish with one or the other. There is certainly a learning curve to using conventional and fishing them at night is certainly an issue. Don't let anyone dissuade you from learning how. Once comfortable they are a pleasure to fish with. Start with a slower reel. 525 would not be the starter reel. Get something slower and buy increasingly sleeker and faster reels. And adjust rod length accordingly.


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## FishWhisperer (Jan 18, 2012)

When I made the decision to swith from spinners to conventionals I was pretty nervous everytime I went to cast from the pier, even after weeks of field work. I learned on a Penn long beach 67, which is hardly a distance reel. Im glad I learned to educate my thumb. When I thought I had it down I moved up to a Sealine X40sha and it was cake. My suggestion is to learn with your thumb rather than brake block or mags. If you can cast a jigmaster or squidder proficiently, you will be able to cast the newer cast controlled souped up reels with ease! Plus if you're heaving heavy pay loads, its so much easier since your thumb is so much stronger than any drag on a spinner. I would recomend finding a used conventional on Ebay so you're not so deep into an investment if you decide to change your mind. Good luck with your decision and practice practice pratice. O yea and when you practice make sure your line is wet so you avoid the Godawful burns on your thumb.


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## Furball (Sep 20, 2002)

Casting a conventional at night is not too bad. You can usually tell when the weight/bait/lure is close to water and all you do is let your thumb ride gently on the spool. Sometimes it can be a challenge to reel the line in without a level wind but all that I do then is use a headlamp with a red bulb.


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