# Anyone looking for suffix alternative??



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

I WAS,because they stopped making gold which tied great knots,held up great and casted great.. Hated the chartruese for knots,too slick,unless you went to extra lengths in tying.. imo..

Went to Berkley pro spec.. Used it this year drumfishing,put it to the test.. Stuff ties great knots,holds up as well or better than the suffix,casted great.. Diameter of the 20lb test is a little smaller than 17 suffix.. If not mistaken (and have been in the past  ) it is in the same price range as well... What's not to like??


----------



## scavengerj (Sep 10, 2007)

Thanx for the info Drum! I might have to give this a shot next season.

DMS #525
AMSA #1102
OBPA
RFA #1053456E


----------



## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

tried some down here too. Ditto what ha said.


----------



## cobia_slayer (Jan 9, 2008)

Always been a fan of berkley big game, might have to buy a 1lb spool this winter.


----------



## BLACK ADDER (Nov 15, 2006)

Well. they stopped making the stuff I like,too. I have used Hi Seas Red Devil for the past two years and it has been great. Also good for these old eyes to see on the beach and in low light. 
Actually, I was told it was so unpopular ,our local tackle shop stopped stocking it. Of course, everybody that sees it wants to know where to get it! 

BA
Virginia Beach


----------



## Petersen (Apr 22, 2011)

Might have to pick some up for next season. Do they make it in any hi vis colors? Havent had any problems with the suffix tri but it sounds like a good alternative


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Petersen said:


> Might have to pick some up for next season. Do they make it in any hi vis colors? Havent had any problems with the suffix tri but it sounds like a good alternative


 Chartruese like suffix,maybe a little more yellow in color,shows as good in the dark,better than the gold suffix,about same as thier chartruese... It also comes in ocean blue,if it was like the ole "ice blue stren" I'd buy it in a heartbeat,that stuff showed up good both day and night...


----------



## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

trit chartruese is slick for some reason. ever single spools ive used is like that. wonder why. :T
BBG has always been a good line. used it whenever i ran out of trit or what not. holds up great.
red devil is a strong line and abrasion resistant.. but line itself doesnt feel round, kinda triangular.

i guess ill try this BG pro line for the little remainder of this craptastic fall season for some bass.


----------



## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

You're right about Tritanium and knots. That abrasion-resistant coating is tough as nails, but knots don't grab very well when it's brand new.

When tying up brand new line, I usually take very fine steel wool and run the line through it gently three or four times. The knots grab perfectly and the line strength isn't compromised. One you've fished it for a couple of hours the sand does the same thing and the knots take hold without a problem.


----------



## 9 rock (Nov 30, 2008)

sand flea said:


> You're right about Tritanium and knots. That abrasion-resistant coating is tough as nails, but knots don't grab very well when it's brand new.
> 
> When tying up brand new line, I usually take very fine steel wool and run the line through it gently three or four times. The knots grab perfectly and the line strength isn't compromised. One you've fished it for a couple of hours the sand does the same thing and the knots take hold without a problem.



I think it being slick is a good thing not a bad, that would mean less resistance from the guides as well.. as for the diameter that equates to breaking strength and might be why 17# tri is known for its superior breaking stength and abrasive resistance


9


----------



## RocknReds (Jun 13, 2010)

Try the Sakuma line (Tommy Farmer sells it). You'll be pleasantly suprised.


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

sand flea said:


> You're right about Tritanium and knots. That abrasion-resistant coating is tough as nails, but knots don't grab very well when it's brand new.
> 
> When tying up brand new line, I usually take very fine steel wool and run the line through it gently three or four times. The knots grab perfectly and the line strength isn't compromised. One you've fished it for a couple of hours the sand does the same thing and the knots take hold without a problem.


 I'm with ya,but why do that to brand new line when ya have something that will work right outta the box,you know,like other lines do.. No disrespect meant,but if fresh line does that I ain't using it... 



9 rock said:


> I think it being slick is a good thing not a bad, that would mean less resistance from the guides as well.. as for the diameter that equates to breaking strength and might be why 17# tri is known for its superior breaking stength and abrasive resistance
> 
> 
> 9


 From what I can tell breaking strengths are close to the same,diameter doesn't seem to matter.. Same with abrassion resistance,every bit as good from what I have seen..

It is'nt a cureall endall,just an alternative if you don't like the chartruese suffix,and I'm one of those guys...


----------



## dawgfsh (Mar 1, 2005)

Kenny you can send all that Chartruese suffix down here, if ya ain"t gonna use it.


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

dawgfsh said:


> Kenny you can send all that Chartruese suffix down here, if ya ain"t gonna use it.


 It's been so long since I have used it,forgot who I gave the spool to...


----------



## Hooked Up (Feb 6, 2009)

I used both pro spec and tritanium at assasteague and avon this fall.................only noticed one real differance...........the pro spec isn't as overun friendly as the tri.......ordered sum 16 pro for may rocks


----------



## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

sand flea said:


> You're right about Tritanium and knots. That abrasion-resistant coating is tough as nails, but knots don't grab very well when it's brand new.
> 
> When tying up brand new line, I usually take very fine steel wool and run the line through it gently three or four times. The knots grab perfectly and the line strength isn't compromised. One you've fished it for a couple of hours the sand does the same thing and the knots take hold without a problem.


matt, lemme get this right? your trying to turn new line into old line?!?!?!?


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

I never had a problem with the knots in the Chart. Sufix. Spider to Slimbeauty ot the Uni never failed by pulling loose.


----------



## SteveZ (Nov 30, 2006)

Hooked Up said:


> I used both pro spec and tritanium


Didn't you also try the sakuma??? How did it do???


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

AbuMike said:


> I never had a problem with the knots in the Chart. Sufix. Spider to Slimbeauty ot the Uni never failed by pulling loose.


 Mike,tie me a double uni to spice the line for a refill,I will show you how it slips...  I never had it fail on a fish,but I usually test knots before using.. I spiced quickly cause fish were chewing and didn't feel like filling the spool.. So,I spliced the line about 2/3 way into the spool with a double uni,pulled it and it simply unwound itself... I did get a double nail to hold,but the uni puzzled me,so Pat and I put it to the test again with as many as 7 wraps,could still make it undo itself.. Bimini doesn't come out near as well as it did on the gold suffix either.. All that combined made me start looking.. It took a while,but I am solidly convinced this line works better than the chartruese suffix.. jmho...


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Well like I said I never had a problem with either of the knots I mentioned. To each his own just stating my experience but I know there are more experienced fisherman out there. Like it or not, use it or not. This is going the way of the mono vs braid debate.


----------



## crumbe (Jul 22, 2011)

good info....thanks for posting!!


----------



## luckyOC (Apr 3, 2010)

my .02

I use mainly sufix tri char... 14, 17, 20. Im too young to have fished the gold , but heard good things.

The $ of the sufix tri char has gone up it seems, AND i like different colors too  ... so i decided to try some stuff out this last year.

Before I go into the others, the sufix tri char is slicker than others I have tried.... BUT the spider to slim beauty I tie doesn't slip... and on the thicker 20lb, a good albright (or reverse) works well without doubling the line.... and doesn't slip. I have caught some big fish on the sufix, and trust that line... it doesn't last very long after it looses its "slickness". With that said, I would never trust a uni-uni as a splice on a big fish... but that's just me. 

Also, in my experience, Im not really trusting any company's line test ratings, unless they are tested in front of my face... I am trusting more the diameter of the line, in relevance to its strength... more of a level playing field.

The others:
1) Ultima distance (orange) 18lb, ok, but its 'slick' coating didn't last as long, its longevity wasn't there. I caught some fish on this line. Its OK, kinda hard to find now.

2) Stren stamina (gold) 15lb... better, its thick for 15lb test, so the breaking strength seems to be higher (I know the 20lb was tested and broke near 29lb).
This is a mono, don't think its a copolymer. Little better than the Ultima above, in terms of life.

3) Gamma (gold)... like this line, cant find a big spool of it anymore at cabela's... the 14lb casted nice, and lasted a while... this it was very close to the gold sufix i hear.

4) Sakuma (char) Nite Crystal. Been using this this fall, on a few reels... didn't buy a lot of it yet... the 20 and 16lb seem to last longer than sufix tri, 20 is thinner than the 17lb tri (but that i think is better rated to 21-22lb). Line has little to no memory, is rounder than the tri, but has more stretch it seems. Will probably get some more of this, after i catch a fish or two on it. Not saying I'm tossing my sufix, but it works well. Its more $ though.

would like to try the Berkley noted above too... would like some blue... cool guys use blue line


----------



## Hooked Up (Feb 6, 2009)

i have used some of the sakuma lines for the field and fishing..........i dont think youll find a better casting line but!!!!!!!.......as in the field and in the sand if you let the spool overun {exspecially in the dark}...sakuma nite crystal can become a nightmare.....yea ok its my fault for bein slow on the draw and not stopping the spool.. but when ur running on 3 hours of sleep in 48 hours of time casting into darkness with rain spittin in your face well............all im sayin is it can be a pain to pick out as to where it seems the tritanium takes little effort........this could stem directly from the line diameters alone....the pro spec i found to do the same but not as bad as the thinner sakuma lines...........sakuma for the field.........tritanium/pro spec is ..what ill fish with.....but ima learner


----------



## luckyOC (Apr 3, 2010)

hehe Hooked Up.... i haven't blown it up nice yet... guess i know not to try to pick it out, just re-spool.... but when i do bird-nest, its bad enough where i just cut the line, pull in the end, and get another reel out of the truck


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

AbuMike said:


> Well like I said I never had a problem with either of the knots I mentioned. To each his own just stating my experience but I know there are more experienced fisherman out there. Like it or not, use it or not. This is going the way of the mono vs braid debate.


 Na,ain't no debate,just stating what I have found,as many seemed to be looking for a suffix alternative as was I.. Not doubting a spider and slimbeauty in that line,or even a bimini that doesn't look as good in that line as when tied in others.. Just stating that a double uni used as a quick splice in the heat of a bite wasn't up to snuff... 



luckyOC said:


> my .02
> 
> I use mainly sufix tri char... 14, 17, 20. Im too young to have fished the gold , but heard good things.
> 
> ...


 You're right the gold was some good chit... imho.. You are also right about the splice,if I splice normally tie two biminis and loop together.. Found this to be the strongest splicing connection.. That night I was most definatly in a rush,between three of us we caught over 20 bigguns in about 3 hrs.. My line was frapped up from a backlash and in need of a quick change... Needless to say,a double uni would have been faster in the dark,so that is what I tied,good thing I checked it...


----------



## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

NTKG said:


> matt, lemme get this right? your trying to turn new line into old line?!?!?!?


Hah! Not quite--just a tiny scuff to make the knot grab. Never had it break on me, and it's not necessary after the line has been the water for an hour or two. It doesn't do anything the surf doesn't do on its own.

In hindsight (and to Kenny's point) it does seem kind of silly to have to do it. But I love that line, and if it takes a little workaround to make it grab I don't mind.


----------



## flathead (Dec 18, 2003)

> I never had a problem with the knots in the Chart. Sufix. Spider to Slimbeauty ot the Uni never failed by pulling loose.


Me neither......but then.......we ain't anal about knots like some folks we won't name 



> Just stating that a double uni used as a quick splice in the heat of a bite wasn't up to snuff...


Now.....dat's whut ya shudda sed da fust time


----------



## smacks fanatic (Oct 16, 2010)

dumb qeustion but are you talking about braid or mono?


----------



## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

Hey DD, is that the same line you showed be the last time I saw you? I'm with you on the gold sufix, as a matter of fact I like the red sufix better, but that didn't last long either.


----------



## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

"dumb qeustion but are you talking about braid or mono? "


Mr. Mono.


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

CrawFish said:


> Hey DD, is that the same line you showed be the last time I saw you? I'm with you on the gold sufix, as a matter of fact I like the red sufix better, but that didn't last long either.


 Not sure if I was using gama at the time I saw ya on Avolon or berkley prospec? Can tell ya this Teo,it's (prospec) good line,as good as the gold...



flathead said:


> Me neither......but then.......we ain't anal about knots like some folks we won't name
> 
> 
> 
> Now.....dat's whut ya shudda sed da fust time


 No doubt,bring em to me and I'll break dem sissy knots you tie..  JK.. Frank,if I can pull a double uni apart,I want no parts of the line,anal about knots or not.. 



Orest said:


> "dumb qeustion but are you talking about braid or mono? "
> 
> 
> Mr. Mono.


 Copolamer (msp) .. Yeap,mono....


----------



## flathead (Dec 18, 2003)

> Frank,if I can pull a double uni apart,I want no parts of the line


I agrees wid dat 100 % x 2.



> bring em to me and I'll break dem sissy knots you tie


I'm making a list,checking it twice,gonna find out


----------



## Plug (Feb 5, 2004)

Drumdum said:


> Frank,if I can pull a double uni apart,I want no parts of the line,anal about knots or not..


Why????? Why not just use a better knot that won't slip? Like the nail to nail you mentioned.

Char. Tri+ had so many things going for it that made it better than all the others including the gold I just took some time and learned what knots would hold and used those.

But I'll try the pro spec. I have an open mind.

And the next time we're parked together on the sand or planks we'll do a little test. Take a section of running line of your choice. You tie one end of it to a hunk of shocker using the knot(s) of your choice. I'll take the other end and tie it to another hunk of shocker with one of those (sissy) Bimini/Slim Beauties. Then you can pull on your end and I'll pull on mine. 

opcorn:


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

Plug said:


> Why????? Why not just use a better knot that won't slip? Like the nail to nail you mentioned.
> 
> Char. Tri+ had so many things going for it that made it better than all the others including the gold I just took some time and learned what knots would hold and used those.
> 
> ...


This is gonna be good. I been to one of Kenny's knot bustin seminars. It was very funny....


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Plug said:


> Why????? Why not just use a better knot that won't slip? Like the nail to nail you mentioned.
> 
> Char. Tri+ had so many things going for it that made it better than all the others including the gold I just took some time and learned what knots would hold and used those.
> 
> ...


 Bringit...


----------



## SteveZ (Nov 30, 2006)

Plug said:


> And the next time we're parked together on the sand or planks we'll do a little test.


All yer gonna prove is that ya both tie knots that'll hold any fish that swims...but it is fun to cuss & discuss these things.


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

SteveZ said:


> All yer gonna prove is that ya both tie knots that'll hold any fish that swims...but it is fun to cuss & discuss these things.


 I agree,a double uni way down in the spool to splice,is not a bad knot when the fish are chew'n.. Done it many a time,and because I do check it even when it a hurry,it probably saved me a fish... jmho..

On to the pull'n contest with my friend Hugh... As Steve said,the knots he would tie and I would tie will hold.. Slim beauty is a heck of a knot,especially when re-enforced with a bimini.. Although if we are gonna tie into the same running line,end to end with our favorite connections,I got sumfin fer his arse.....  

We can tie with the prospec,so he can see if it's up to his standards as well...


----------



## luckyOC (Apr 3, 2010)

mmmmm, ill try 1lb spools 20lb char and 16lb blue of the pro-spec please, give it a whirl.

I trust Hugh's knot... he had a write up a few years back, out of all the knots I have tried, that doubled line slimB is one heck of a knot, running line always failed first on the bench tests.

Spider to slimB for me on 17lb tri line, pulled in some big sharks with that knot... and the demons that spooled me, never broke off at the knot. I feel demons are a pretty good test of your line setup.


----------



## J Johnston (Nov 24, 2003)

I agree that the gold tri+ is tougher and ties better knots than the chartruese.Used up my last spool of gold this fall Would like to see a test of Prospec 20 vs Chartreuse Tri+ 17 since they are the same diameter .016 . I trust Kenny's knots He broke all of mine years ago,ruined my confidence for a while but made me tie much better knots.

Thank you Kenny you made me better!

opcorn:


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

luckyOC said:


> mmmmm, ill try 1lb spools 20lb char and 16lb blue of the pro-spec please, give it a whirl.
> 
> I trust Hugh's knot... he had a write up a few years back, out of all the knots I have tried, that doubled line slimB is one heck of a knot, running line always failed first on the bench tests.
> 
> Spider to slimB for me on 17lb tri line, pulled in some big sharks with that knot... and the demons that spooled me, never broke off at the knot. I feel demons are a pretty good test of your line setup.


 In full agreement,that slimbeauty to bimini is a h*ll of a connection,but I still got sump'n fer his arse....


----------



## Plug (Feb 5, 2004)

Not hedgin' my bets but let's say it needs to readily pass thru guides. So a J-knot or any form of surgeons is out. Bimini/nail to nail? That's a good on that I know you like. It is very, very close.


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Plug said:


> Not hedgin' my bets but let's say it needs to readily pass thru guides. So a J-knot or any form of surgeons is out. Bimini/nail to nail? That's a good on that I know you like. It is very, very close.


 Hugh,I'm sure you'll be out there next fall,seeya then.... Not to worry,it will go through the guides... Meanwhile give this prospec an honest look...


----------



## SteveZ (Nov 30, 2006)

I wanna watch...


----------



## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

Just a thought but that knot has to go through your guides including the tip top. for lite tackle fishing I use the Uni to Uni.


----------



## Plug (Feb 5, 2004)

Plug said:


> *Not hedgin' my bets but let's say it needs to readily pass thru guides.* So a J-knot or any form of surgeons is out. Bimini/nail to nail? That's a good on that I know you like. It is very, very close.





Drumdum said:


> Hugh,I'm sure you'll be out there next fall,seeya then.... *Not to worry,it will go through the guides*... Meanwhile give this prospec an honest look...





Fishman said:


> Just a thought but that knot has to go through your guides including the tip top. for lite tackle fishing I use the Uni to Uni.


Yeah that's already been covered


----------



## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

This thread is getting interesting....

you pull yours while i pull mine...

i wanna watch....

all the makings of a well... nevermind....

Plug, you like that combo better than bimini/noname?


----------



## Plug (Feb 5, 2004)

Yeah, and I want to emphasize, FOR ME. Different people, tie different knots, differently. 

I tested most all of them using 17# char. tri+ years ago. The actual breaking strength of 17# char. tri+ tested just a hair shy of 22#. FOR ME the Slim Beauty broke at 2#'s greater than the no-name. The no-name broke at 19+ #'s and the slim beauty at 21+ #'s. 

The slim beauty would sometimes break but most of the time the break would be at the bimini and quite often in the running line itself. So I am confident the knot combination gives me dang near if not 100% strength according to the lines actual breaking strength, not it's rated strength. The no-name would always break at the no-name knot itself.

Again, nothing wrong with a no-name. It could have been the way I tie them. Somebody else might be just the opposite.

When I did that testing these are the knots.

Bimini/slim beauty - 21+ #'s

Bimini/to a nail passed thru and jammed against a figure-8 knot (just like you do the slim beauty) - 21+ #'s averaged slightly lower than the slim beauty but beat it a couple of times.

Bimini/nail to nail - 21+ #'s same as the nail/figure-8

Bimini/no-name - 19+ #'s.

Bimini/uni-uni - 18+ #'s.

I've got good scales and everything I need at work and winter finds me with slack time so I'm going to order a spool of 20# pro-spec and I'll test it against the 17# char. tri+ this winter.

I'll use the above knots. If somebody else has one they'd like included let me know.

Another reason I like the slim beauty is I can control the distance between the bimini and the knot. With the no-name whatever loop size you wind up with is the distance you get. I can keep the distance with the slim beauty to less than an inch. With my fat, clumsy fingers I can't tie bimini loops that small. Seems to me the less distance between the bimini and the knot the better the mess goes thru the guides.


----------



## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

I tried the slim beauty a couple of times, the figure 8 knot doesn't hold up as well and slower to tie than the no-name.


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

CrawFish said:


> I tried the slim beauty a couple of times, the figure 8 knot doesn't hold up as well and slower to tie than the no-name.


Sounds like you may be passing the dbl line thru the 8 the wrong way.


----------



## Plug (Feb 5, 2004)

Never had a problem with the figure-8 Teo. But you're right, the no-name is much faster. I still use it if I'm in a hurry. Usually when the biters are thick and hose my chit up faster than I can rig it. Or when I'm "into the cups".:redface:


----------



## luckyOC (Apr 3, 2010)

Plug, wish we had those pics and write up you did a while back... they helped me greatly... in regaurds to the figure 8


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Plug said:


> Never had a problem with the figure-8 Teo. But you're right, the no-name is much faster. I still use it if I'm in a hurry. Usually when the biters are thick and hose my chit up faster than I can rig it. Or when I'm "into the cups".:redface:


 I tie the no-name as well when in a hurry,and also use it with braid for sightcasting,tied into a bimini.. When not in a hurry,I tie the knot I'm going to break yer slim beauty with on the planks...  

PS Back to serious,how many wraps are you putting in the no-name??


----------



## Plug (Feb 5, 2004)

4 wraps. As with any knot getting the sucker to up draw tight is the key. Loosey-goosey knots fail! Some say 6-8 wraps but IMO trying to draw up too many wraps of the heavy 50# leader can overheat the 17# loop. 4 won't slip IF it's drawn up tight.


----------



## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Plug said:


> 4 wraps. As with any knot getting the sucker to up draw tight is the key. Loosey-goosey knots fail! Some say 6-8 wraps but IMO trying to draw up too many wraps of the heavy 50# leader can overheat the 17# loop. 4 won't slip IF it's drawn up tight.


 Try 3... jmho....


----------



## mots reel deal (Aug 11, 2011)

i emailed sufix vmc about gold being available only in the uk and they said that there was no market for it here. ima i think sometime the government has to do with alot of of the stuff we get here in the usa.


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

There probably wasn't till bout 2 years or so ago...


----------

