# ORV Plan Workbook--this is important



## for access (Jul 18, 2005)

http://parkplanning.nps.gov./document.cfm?parkID=358&projectId=10641&documentID=21567

From the format it almost looks like a ballet--whatever gets the most votes wins. *THIS IS IMPORTANT*, don't assume you can just sit back and let your reg. neg. representatives get the job done. * YOU NEED TO GIVE THEM AMUNITION*


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## dirtyhandslopez (Nov 17, 2006)

Thanks, Ginny. I'll post in the VA. section for the Richmond meeting and see if we can organise a pre-meeting meeting to hash a few things out and get more ideas.


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## surfcast (Nov 7, 2006)

I tried loading the workbook from here..and another site it was posted on..each time it would not load completely. An error message that said the file was damged popped up??? Just wondering if it's on my end or if anyone else has had the same problem?


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

I loaded it fine after I had to upgrade Adobe.


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## surfcast (Nov 7, 2006)

Loaded fine this morning after updating. Thanks..


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

Just to add some credibility to making your voices heard, Tellico, located in the Natahala National Forest at the other end of NC is in serious jepardy of loosing all ORV traffic. They have recently experienced "seasonal" closing with anticipations of making them permanent. Take EVERY chance you can get to make your voices heard in an effort to preserve any ORV presense.


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## Mullet Breath (Nov 15, 2006)

Bump,

Permanent closures, permits (possibly multiple ones), no night fishing, beach shuttles, driving tests to get permits, all this and more can be found in the workbook. If you don't participate you lose your chance to have an early say in all the above.


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## for access (Jul 18, 2005)

*Workbook Deadline*

For all of those who have questioned the deadline, here are Mr. Berry's comment, as per an email received yesterday. The idea of a 60 day extension might be a valid comment at the upcoming meetings. 


Mr. Berry's comment

NEPA does not specify the length of a comment period. A 30 day comment period is pretty much minimum under the Administrative Procedures Act. APA is the law that tells government agencies how to conduct business. Given the length and complexity of the workbook, and all of its implications to the environment and users of OBX beaches, we the public should request at least a 60 day extension to the current 30 days and not be forced into making thoughtless comment. Again, the public needs to know about this workbook and the rule-making process and get involved. At this point, most of the user public knows nothing about this comment period and process, let alone the complex issues. Rushing through the workbook, not knowing the historical background and the environmental and economic issues, does not serve the public interest. The public should at least have time after the public meetings held by the Park Service to consider all alternatives and management options. I have been studying these environmental situations for over 40 years now, and quite frankly, I find the questions and options presented in the workbook very complex and potentially restrictive in the Park’s usage. Especially for those of us who do not live on the Outer Banks, it will take time to gather and consider the facts before we can constructively comment.


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## dirtyhandslopez (Nov 17, 2006)

Agreed on all points For Access, but if a 60 day extension is granted, people may start to lose the energy that seems to be being created right now. On the flip side it would give us more time to let people know and get them on board. On the flip side of that, it also gives the other side more time to drum up workbook filler out 'ers. I'm thinking about seeing if Air Down can get a bunch printed to take to a couple of local tackle shops to be given out.


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## roadkillal (Feb 23, 2006)

Please check the wording on each question. I found myself on a few of them almost selecting the wrong choice based on how the position was worded.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

roadkillal said:


> Please check the wording on each question. I found myself on a few of them almost selecting the wrong choice based on how the position was worded.



Your right, it's almost like the Caliber test we give to perspective new employees at work.


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## Fireline20 (Oct 2, 2007)

*I want to help but I need help*

Guys;

I don't fish OBX but I do fish Fort Fisher where we have ORV access and I am afraid of what might happen down here if this goes through, so I want to fight this thing up north before it gets to us south of you guys.

Bottom line is , I don't understand the questions or the geography, so I can't answer with any intelligence or I fear a I might make the matter worse

Give me/us a primer, how should we answer the questions to help you OBX guys.

I guarantee I am not the only one that will help, north and south, so I would also suggest this go to the General Forum, the SC/Ga Forum as well as the Ches bay folks and not just stay in the NC forum:fishing:


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## longcast (Jan 9, 2005)

*Important Info On The "workbook"*

The "workbook" answers CANNOT be saved in ADOBE READER. If you start and answer some of the questions, unless you have ADOBE PRO do not close or save the document. Your work WILL BE LOST.

The NPS agreed today to reformat the "workbook" into WORD. This will allow saving, sharing emailing, etc. It should be done by Monday or Tuesday. There will be a Press release.

The NPS also extended the deadline for the completed "workbooks" till 2/15. That is as far as they could go. This is closer to at least 30 days as we could get.


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## for access (Jul 18, 2005)

*Primer*



Fireline20 said:


> Guys;
> 
> I don't fish OBX but I do fish Fort Fisher where we have ORV access and I am afraid of what might happen down here if this goes through, so I want to fight this thing up north before it gets to us south of you guys.
> 
> ...


Don't know if I can do that but if you go to the nps or reelbuzz site, there are maps to help with the geography.

http://reelbuzz.com/data/nps/nps.htm

As far as answers go, someone posted a suggestion on one of the other boards but I can't find it. Just go with your gut, if an option reduces access it will increase crowding and the potential for user conflicts.


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## basstardo (Jun 5, 2006)

longcast said:


> The "workbook" answers CANNOT be saved in ADOBE READER. If you start and answer some of the questions, unless you have ADOBE PRO do not close or save the document. Your work WILL BE LOST.
> 
> The NPS agreed today to reformat the "workbook" into WORD. This will allow saving, sharing emailing, etc. It should be done by Monday or Tuesday. There will be a Press release.
> 
> The NPS also extended the deadline for the completed "workbooks" till 2/15. That is as far as they could go. This is closer to at least 30 days as we could get.



That's good news. At least some extension was granted.


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## longcast (Jan 9, 2005)

The GOOD NEWS is: NPS is going to change the format of the document. It WILL BE ABLE TO BE SAVED WITH YOUR ANSWERS INTACT. You won't loose anything, unlike now, where if you try to save, say, trying to save answers 1-30 so you can start on it another day. As it is right now, your work is GONE period.

So wait until next week, you will be able to save your work electronically. That is what counts.

With the short time-frame NPS would like to get your completed "workbook" back electronically. Hand written "workbook"s will be OK, but there will be NO TRANSCRIPTION ERRORS due to poor handwriting.


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## dirtyhandslopez (Nov 17, 2006)

Thank you for the info Longcast. But what will any of the written opinions mean if it is decided that a computer cannot read them? This I think may present a problem. I believe we've been given a document(that must have taken a helluva long time to write up) that we are given A, B or C answers to and if we get the answers right with enough volume, a computer will spit out the answer in our favour. If we don't get enough volume we will lose. I have a feeling our personal stories will not be taken into acount whatsoever.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

I stuck this thread because it IS IMPORTANT,not only for NC but for everyone...

Picture this as one of the "battlelines" between the anti fishermen and hunters,vs the folks that want to see thier children and grandchildren fishing or hunting.... In the long run this is what it is going to boil down to if they keep gradually removing our priviledges away one by one..... jmho


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## dirtyhandslopez (Nov 17, 2006)

Thank you DD. They wouldn't half spent so much time and money on this if this isn't the deciding document for implentation. But I do hear dissent in the ranks from people that may be able to put a very good arguement legal wise.


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## longcast (Jan 9, 2005)

OK, some education here. The workbook is part of the NEPA (National Environmental Policy Act) The sampling of public opinion at the same time as the Negotiated Rulemaking is going on is to give the stakeholders a window into what the public at large has to say. NPS is looking for new ideas(how can things be improved) The compiled answers will be provided to the stakeholders at the Feb meeting at the end of the month. Try to answer every question & keep your answers consistent from one section to another.

It look like the goal of REG-NEG as far as it affects us(ORV driving fishermen in the Park) is to get back some of the beach we have lost in the last few years, without endangering birds or turtles. More ramps around closed beach areas, smaller enclosures, things like that. Some issues will be hard to win.

In short the best way to speed the process is to submit you completed workbooks as soon as you can. But wait until next week, so you can complete the electronic version. It will be in WORD format, this will be able to speed up & take the hassle out of asking you to complete the workbook.

Everybody has an opinion of what they would like the ORV rules should include, this is the time to get your thoughts on the record.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

*This is amazing to me??*

Something this important for those that fish the obx is down to just 549 views in this length of time?? It's not just important for obx,but down south to Cape Lookout.. We have already been told by NPS that this was the model they would use in a plan for Cape Lookout as well... Believe me, all that fish the beaches period,have a stake in this either in the short haul or the long one,but you do have a stake in it,promise..


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## Centralpafish (Jul 5, 2007)

While it would be great to go through the many pages with others. Some of us can't. I did the survey and I think I sent it off but I was unable to save a copy. Should I do it again and save with a different version of Adobe? This is important to all of us folks, please help me out here. Thanks, Philly Jack


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

I'd fill out another,and save a copy... Don't hurt,and that way ya know what way you answered the questions...

I'm going to the meeting in a few.. Hopefully they'll clear some of it up for me...


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## OBXFISHN (Oct 8, 2007)

I'm going to the Raleigh meeting on Wednesday. I don't plan on turning in my workbook then. I am going to take notes on a hard copy of the workbook and then take it to Frank & Fran's to share. Frank is planning a meeting to brainstorm suggestions for the work book on the weekend of Feb 1st.

Frank & Fran's


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

OBXFISHN said:


> I'm going to the Raleigh meeting on Wednesday. I don't plan on turning in my workbook then. I am going to take notes on a hard copy of the workbook and then take it to Frank & Fran's to share. Frank is planning a meeting to brainstorm suggestions for the work book on the weekend of Feb 1st.
> 
> Frank & Fran's


 Sounds like a plan to me,cause this thing is almost like a lawbook... Even more complicated than the test I took for my captian's license...


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

The following is from the NCBBA board:


> Good Morning “Like-Minded” Folks……………..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

*Finally Finished!!!!*

This booklet aka Encyclopedia for helping USFWL determine how fast or slow they are going to shut the beaches down to ORV use.. 
There were many suggestions made in the form of multiple choice questions that had my blood boiling.. I had to get a grip before answering each and every question with an alternative suggestion on how to fix "THIER PROBLEM"...
That thing is time consuming,and can see why many have probably choosen not to fill this out. But,what was explained to me at the meeting in Buxton is they are looking for ideas. Not numbers of folks answering birders vs fishermen and other user groups.. So please,if ya got any ideas try to fill out some on that booklet. From some of the suggestions that came through on that booklet it's not hard to suggest an alternative to it...


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## tunadog (Feb 2, 2008)

Having trouble opening the workbook, any tips?


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

tunadog said:


> Having trouble opening the workbook, any tips?



As is in above post read these guidelines,this will help some..

NCBBA

My reading skills really s*ck,I have to read something 5 or 6 times to understand what the hay thier saying..So I struggled to get through this thing as well.Really wanted to at least have some input in where the future of Hatteras beaches are concerned.. This plan is suppose to be a guideline on what happens at Cape Lookout as well.. It is my understanding that our input will be used by NPS,along with thier own to make a plan if neg-reg doesn't pan out..
One suggestion,if you feel the questions are not understandable,simply check that it won't work,and make your own suggestion as to how it should work.. You can look at the "status quo" and figure if the suggestions made are even less access than "status quo",and make suggestions that will give more access.. Many of the suggestions I saw on there make your blood boil,if you frequent these beaches,but you have to block that out and go on.. It's tough,but if I can do it,anyone that can read can as well,jmho..


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

*I unstuck this..*

Hopefully you folks sent your's in...


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