# Casting Style for First Time?



## sprtsracer (Apr 27, 2005)

Had a 525 Mag on a short 6'6" rod rated 20-40 lb test casting off the pier until I could get all my equipment lined up and in order. Just received my OM Capepoint 12' and am putting the 525 on it. Line is 50 lb PP. Going to cast off the beach! What's the best casting style to use to start with, assuming that in a couple years, I'll be going toe-to-toe with Blackbeard (Yeah...right:beer. Anyway...I can probably sling it out there like I normall do off the pier, but in order to start off with a good foundation for true distance casting (not tournament...just fishing) should I start trying to learn the OTG, Pendulum, or what?. I know about all the sites, videos, etc concerning style...just want to know which one I should start with. Thanks.


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## Connman (Apr 14, 2001)

Learn the OTG and unitech and be come proficient at them and you will never even need to worry about pendulum casting for fishing .


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## sprtsracer (Apr 27, 2005)

I appreciate that and thank you for the feedback! I figuredf the OTG would be the best to start with, but just wanted some confirmation.


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

NO. to start out learning. use a basic overhand / overshoulder cast.

as its the easiest. 

then progress to OTG/hatteras

and mix in some pendulum; high or flatarc ever once in a while.

i also recommend you using a thicker mono line instead,, its easier to pick out fluffs.


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

It sounds like you may already have the basic overhead cast down pat from your pier fishing days.

I know this sounds like a broken record but learn the groundcast. Buy a video, look at on line videos, or better yet get together with a competent groundcaster to get you started on the right track. The groundcast will lay the fundamentals down for all of the powercasts.

A well executed groundcast will outperform even a pretty good pendulum cast every time.

Invest the time, it will pay dividends.

Tommy


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## wolfgang (Nov 7, 2007)

Tommy said:


> Buy a video, look at on line videos, or better yet get together with a competent groundcaster to get you started on the right track.



Can you recommend a specific video, website or even a book that has some good, detailed step-by-step instructions on the OTG cast. I've watched some of the ones on YouTube, but I haven't been able to find one that breaks it down step-by-step.


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

wolfgang said:


> Can you recommend a specific video, website or even a book that has some good, detailed step-by-step instructions on the OTG cast. I've watched some of the ones on YouTube, but I haven't been able to find one that breaks it down step-by-step.


Nick Meyer at Breakway has a video out and he breaks the cast down real well in it.

CB


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## wolfgang (Nov 7, 2007)

Thanks CB!


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

No problem bro, just go to his website and you can buy it direct from there.

CB


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## wolfgang (Nov 7, 2007)

CB - Is this the one?

http://nickaway.com/dvd12.html


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## HellRhaY (Jul 6, 2007)

wolfgang said:


> CB - Is this the one?
> 
> http://nickaway.com/dvd12.html


yes that's the one.
i have the video, i'll sell for $14 shipped if you are interested.


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Nick has a good video, so does Ron Arra and Neil Mackellow.

Here are a couple of clips I put together one day last summer. Not a polished video but it does cover my thoughts on the fundamentals of groundcasting.

These 2 clips cover the full tournament groundcast, the fishing groundcast is just a detuned version with a smaller (or without) step and less overall rotation.

I hope it helps,

Tommy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAuMsGfQczw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wnqhCpJTVU


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

...And go on and switch to some 20# mono to learn distance with the OTG, because you are going to anyway, in short order..

Save the braid for something else now, rather than blowing it all up, and throwing it away.


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## Centralpafish (Jul 5, 2007)

Don't overlook Tommy's videos! That's what I have. Look at your responses and go to Carolina Pro Cast at the top of the screen. Tommy is a champ and a heck of a nice fella. My .02 Philly Jack


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## sprtsracer (Apr 27, 2005)

Railroader said:


> ...And go on and switch to some 20# mono to learn distance with the OTG, because you are going to anyway, in short order..
> 
> Save the braid for something else now, rather than blowing it all up, and throwing it away.


Not a bad idea. I have a magged jigmaster with 20lb pink Ande that I think I'll start with. Have to do the Thanksgiving thing today, but since I now live on the beach, I've got a nice big Ocean out my back door (well, out the Condo building's back door) that I can use to practice to my heart's content. Will give it a shot tomorrow.


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## sprtsracer (Apr 27, 2005)

*Tommy*

Thanks for the video clips. VERY informative. After I study them several more times, I'll probably have a few questions. Here's to ya:beer:


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

You are welcome sprtsracer. It really will pay dividend in the long run to learn the groundcast. As you learn other powercasts you will be able to apply the fundamentals learned. The arm extension, body rotation, and punch-pull work with all of the casts.

Good luck

Tommy


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## Al Kai (Jan 8, 2007)

I learned the off the ground cast watching Tommy Farmer videos on youtube.
It was like night and day. It turned the lightbulb on.


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

i still have troubles with groundcast like how tommy covers in his fundamentals videos.

i have good extension and turning. IMO.
but i have trouble punch and pull.
just getting both arms to do that motion is hard. lol

i use a high reel at the moment.

also another problem when i practice low reel, is my right hand.
clearing the line so its not rubbing on your hand going out takes practice. 
maybe my rod's striper isnt tall enough (using slx30-a)


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## Al Kai (Jan 8, 2007)

For me there is a fine line between large birdsnests (me) and magnificant casts (not me).
Once I get this part figured out it will be great.
I throw a few casts and figure ok, on this cast I'm gonna let the horses run and I end up either throwing good or ending up with a birds nest of biblical proportions.
For me I have to start out slow to let the rod load then speed up tward the end.
One day I'll have it down I just gotta keep at it.


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Guys,

Think of the cast kinda like driving a sports car through a curve. In slow, out fast. 

You are accelerating a stationary lead to terminal velocity. If you try to come in with the power too soon the rod will load and then try to unload before you get into the right position to hit it. You will cut the corner and instead of coming around at a nice 45 dgrees you will pull over the top. This load-unload-load again will also cause major surges in the spool speed making a blowup much more likely.

So, up until the point that your left hand (assuming right handed caster) is out in front of your face AND your right is direclty out beside or slightly in front of your right shoulder you are just preloading the rod. At this point you turn up the heat and hit it hard. The rod will come around nicely and once you get the hang of it, the rod will not "bite back" the way it will if you come in too soon with the power. 



Remember, in slow out fast.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone

Tommy


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

ya, its stikll hard. i get up to the face part nicely.

i can cast, no bitebacks, i can throw 4oz on mediocre 4-7 rod, about a good 70 yards.

i feel i load the rod, but doesnt feel enough oomph.

maybe i lack punch. or my rods just suck?


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## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

*WARNING; snide comment to follow....*

:beer:_Not to be taken seriously by anymeans....(disclaimer)_:beer:

You guys failed to mention the "Run and Gun" cast. 
Start high on the "high tide" mark with your rod staged at the ready for cast position behind you.
Next, time the back flow of water back into the ocean.
When ready, run behind the receding wash until enough speed is gatherd and vault your cashe of bait into the blue abiss.

You can also proceed to the run and gun/drag cast.
Just drag your bait on the ground until a ten foot long line is behing you in the sand, then complete the aformentioned cast.

(sorry, I just wanted to add a little humor)


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

lol i still do that.
cause i dont use waders . 

i also run and clam. for surf clams.. that is, for bait. never get wet. haha.


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## chinookhead (Dec 13, 2004)

"Run and gun cast" 
http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46799
Firespyder, I think that I'm going to cry now, but it does get it out there with no effort and little skill. BTW, not running...just a couple feet of walking.


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

Firespyder7 said:


> :beer:_Not to be taken seriously by anymeans....(disclaimer)_:beer:
> 
> You guys failed to mention the "Run and Gun" cast.
> Start high on the "high tide" mark with your rod staged at the ready for cast position behind you.
> ...


Someone has been watching them little sand pipers a little too much. Scurry out as the water recedes, scurry back as it comes forward....LOL J/K


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## chinookhead (Dec 13, 2004)

This is exactly what I'm talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2M69eYBW7c
If he hadn't dragged the bait a couple feet and got it going initially by dragging it a couple feet across the beach it would have been much harder on the rod and the guy to cast it. I am not saying that the rod would have broke...who knows, but it definitely would have been harder for him to get that rod around.

I am not talking about the run and dash cast...just a few feet which gets the momentum going which allows u to cast a greater pay load than a specific rod can ordinarily throw.


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## Team Buddhahead (Apr 3, 2007)

*I use my 5 year old son style....*


He's five an cast a Shimano Mag 50 Baitcaster....

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=18790629


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## sprtsracer (Apr 27, 2005)

OK...so now I know what "High" reel and "low" reel are. I noticed in Tommy's videos that the reel was WAAAAAAAYYYYY down low on the handle. Guess I'll be using the "high" reel style. Other than personal preferences, what are the advantages and disadvantages of each? Keep in mind that this is for "fishing", not tournament casting. It would seem to me that the high reel style would travel further since it would appear there would be more resistance (i.e. guides, etc) with the low reel style. I imagine that would also depend on guide placement, guide size, etc. I guess the main question is...what's the difference? Low reel seems a little unnatural to me, especially for fishing.


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

Low does seem unnatural to most at first. In my experience, your mileage may vary, with the reel in the low position, my right hand can completely concentrate on pushing, not having to worry about working the thumb, basically pulling the thumb off while pushing the arm. My left hand can worry about pulling, it is more natural to pull my thumb off the spool if I am pulling the arm in as well. Basically the low position allows my arms to work more efficiently by only having to do one thing, either push or pull.


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

only unnatural unless you have a reducer. 
with a reducer. that low reel becomes a high reel for retrieving.


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

Most distance casters like Tommy and myself use low reel only for tournaments. We will use high reel for fishing.

CB


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## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

*The brick video*



chinookhead said:


> This is exactly what I'm talking about:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2M69eYBW7c
> If he hadn't dragged the bait a couple feet and got it going initially by dragging it a couple feet across the beach it would have been much harder on the rod and the guy to cast it. I am not saying that the rod would have broke...who knows, but it definitely would have been harder for him to get that rod around.
> 
> I am not talking about the run and dash cast...just a few feet which gets the momentum going which allows u to cast a greater pay load than a specific rod can ordinarily throw.



Thats Rob throwing the brick. I was picking up what you were putting down. Just joshing alittle.

He did that video to prove a point about the WRI Nail being able to throw a brick.....Have a good one.


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## Hudak (Sep 10, 2007)

curtisb said:


> Most distance casters like Tommy and myself use low reel only for tournaments. We will use high reel for fishing.
> 
> CB


WHAT!? You don't let that little piece of butt left in the low position jab you in the gut as you try to haul in a bull red?  Try it without the butt cap, that reminds you that you are still alive.  All jokes aside, of course fishing applications the reel is high.


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

Firespyder7 said:


> Thats Rob throwing the brick. I was picking up what you were putting down. Just joshing alittle.
> 
> He did that video to prove a point about the WRI Nail being able to throw a brick.....Have a good one.


mmm looks nice. 10oz + 2 whole bunkers..


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

thekingfeeder said:


> WHAT!? You don't let that little piece of butt left in the low position jab you in the gut as you try to haul in a bull red?  Try it without the butt cap, that reminds you that you are still alive.  All jokes aside, of course fishing applications the reel is high.


Over in the UK they fish low reel all the time, it just doesn't feel right to me playing a fish thou.

CB


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

cause alot of them use reducers.
you can try it. just jab a broomstick up your rods bottom. ouch.


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

ooeric said:


> cause alot of them use reducers.
> you can try it. just jab a broomstick up your rods bottom. ouch.


Yes, but that reducer is only about a foot or so long they use. This still doesn't give you as much leverage as high reel does. Plus the fish over there they target the most don't fight as hard as our do here.

CB


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## eric (Oct 24, 2007)

pros and cons. deal with it. lol

ive seen 10-18" reducers.

if 18" + 4-6" on butt = 24" isnt enough for you to hold rod between leg to fight... then dont cast low reel. get 30" from a high reel and be happy. xD


lol so simple.


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## curtisb (Jul 21, 2004)

ooeric said:


> pros and cons. deal with it. lol
> 
> ive seen 10-18" reducers.
> 
> ...


I use 34" on my high reel setups when fishing it's just what I'm comfortable with. Even in low reel for tourney casting from the reel to were I grab the blank it is still this distance I use(I have a piece of tape on the blank of my tourney rod were I grip it) Why so wide? because when I finish, the rod is right under my left arm on my side and not out in front of me. This reach may be long for some people, but it's perfect for me. I only use low reel like I stated before for distance casting in tourneys when I really want to hit the rod hard(I cast with the reel on the reducer on my WR300 Century). Low reel feels more comfortable when tourney casting for me over high reel position.


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

Tommy said:


> It sounds like you may already have the basic overhead cast down pat from your pier fishing days.
> 
> I know this sounds like a broken record but learn the groundcast. Buy a video, look at on line videos, or better yet get together with a competent groundcaster to get you started on the right track. The groundcast will lay the fundamentals down for all of the powercasts.
> 
> ...



What do you mean by ground cast? Can you describe please.


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

Here is a clip of a "tourney" style groundcast. A fishing groundcast would be similar with less rotation and no step if wading.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqiJRry0goM

Tommy


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## FishinMortician (Jun 19, 2007)

*Hey sportsracer*

Don't get me wrong, just learning myself, but the OTG cast is what I think you should start with.

It has an advantage in that the lead is stationary and that allows you to concentrate on turning and timing the hit.

I am still working on my cast. I started and then eliminated movements and simplified the cast( no stepping). Try to find a competent caster to assist.

It is easier to build a cast correctly from the start- than to try to unlearn bad habits. You will be able to reach the fish.


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## toejam (Jan 28, 2005)

I recomend that you sign up for Sea Level next class up the road from you at flagler.... Nothing will beat having an instructor to get you start off in the right direction... money, time and effort well spent!


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## Don B (Jul 28, 2001)

sprtsracer,

This may be helpful:

http://www.johnholden.co.uk/How_to_Cast.pdf

Don


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## Centralpafish (Jul 5, 2007)

Another way to learn how to cast properly is to take a lesson from a pro. Tommy offers lessons. I'm was gonna try to take a lesson from him next June but he's unavailable when I'm down that way-little something about a Tournement across the pond. There are other competent casters out there who offer instructions, I've signed up with ******* for next June 9th. I'd also like to buy that Breakaway video if it's still available. Philly Jack


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## sprtsracer (Apr 27, 2005)

toejam said:


> I recomend that you sign up for Sea Level next class up the road from you at flagler.... Nothing will beat having an instructor to get you start off in the right direction... money, time and effort well spent!


Already done that. Will be there in January for the 1st one (My mamma didn't raise no fool! LOL) I DEFINITELY appreciate all the help and advice guys. That's what this forum is all about!


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