# Daiwa Tournament Basia 45QD vs Shimano Aero Technium MGS 10000XSA



## dsurf

Hummm......how would these two "Monarchs" of the surf (fishing) distance spinning world fair in a head to head duel in the hot Carolina sun over rough, and I mean very rough grass, weeds and briars---a 45mm spool reel vs. a 35 mm spool....same weight......both forward tapered....I had a little time on my hands, temporary access to an open field (but exceeding rough) and wanted to share..... This is a comparison story, not distance per se ........so this is my story and I'm sticking to it.

For those not so familar with the specs:
*Daiwa Tournament Basia 45QD with #5 Spool, 263 yds 12 lb (mono line capacity)*
Spool length=45mm
Spool diameter=66mm
Weight 495gm or 17.5 oz
Paired with a Breakaway HDX slightly modified, i.e has a Fuji SIC High Frame (HVSG) 30mm gathering guide set 54 inches from the reel stem. Remaining guides are SIC as well. Length = 13' 5 1/2"

*Shimano Aero Technium MGS 10000XSA..440 yds 12 lb mono line capacity.*
This is Shimano's latest offering and one more looker it is!
Spool length=35mm
Spool diameter=76mm
Weight 495gm or 17.5 oz
Paired with a Breakway HDX slightly modified, i.e has a Fuji SIC High Frame 30mm(T-HVSG) gathering guide set 55 inches from reel stem. Remaining guides are SIC as well. Length =13' 5"

Both reels spooled with 20lb Power Pro and 65 lb Power Pro casting leader.

Hatteras cast used in all cases.

Using *8 oz *egg sinkers.

Temperate around 90 degrees, high humidity, slight 5mph tail wind.

Three casts with each setup, then, to eliminate rod influence factor, switched rods. 

All distances were measured with a range finder.

*Cast 1*
Daiwa 140 yds
Shimano 147 yds

*Cast 2*
Daiwa 142 yds
Shimano 149 yds

*Cast 3*
Daiwa 143 yds
Shimano 150 yds

Switched rods.

*Cast 1*
Daiwa 147 yds
Shimano 153 yds

*Cast 2*
Daiwa 153 yds
Shimano 158 yds
*
Cast 3*
Daiwa 142 yds
Shimano 157 yds

The heat, humidity, and walking were taking it's toll. I threw the Shimano a couple more times and equalled the 158 yds, but did not exceed it.....I stopped at this point.

Observations:
I was completely surprised by the results....in all cases, the Shimano out performed the Daiwa, anywhere from 5 to 15 yds. How could this be???? I had always viewed the Basia as top distance getter with braided line. It's the one with the 45 mm spool....how could a 35 mm spool perform better???

My conjecture:
Look at the pictures....The Shimano is first picture (on the left)...The line lay of the Basia is approx 5?? degrees, while the Shimano is much tighter, approx 2?? degrees. This tighter aero wrap allows more line to stay closer to the spool lip as line comes off during the cast, minimizing line friction with the spool lip. Or saying it another way, the Shimano keeps the maximum amount of line closest to the spool lip during the cast. Think about it, if you can minimize the drop of line from the spool lip, you can minimize the friction with the lip and maximize distance. The cotton lay line approach does this superbly with the Shimano.......although the MGS line lay is not nearly as tight as is the lay on the Aero Technimum XT10000 (the heavier metal version). I can only speculate that Shimano engineers found this new design (MGS) to be better for distance, but I cannot be sure other than what I've seen with my test results.

From another perspective, the diameter of the Basia is 10mm less than the Shimano, hence I would expect the line to come off in smaller coils, introducing less combativeness with the gathering guide. Apparently this is not a factor with the gather guide (30mm) being at 54"/55" from the reel stem. Earlier tests where I used low riders (20mm) or a 30mm gathering guide at 47" did not produce good distance results....too much combativeness with the gathering guide......so this 54/55" with 30mm high frame guides seem to work very well with these reels and the HDX.
Previously I had performed tests with the Basia, matching it against the following: Daiwa Whisker SS3000 (cult, now collector 35mm spool reel), Daiwa Power Surf 5000 (35mm spool), Daiwa Tournament ISO 5000 (35mm spool) (same reel as the Saltiga Surf 5000)....and in all cases the Basia performed best......Hence, I came to the conclusion the difference was the 45mm.......So I was shocked when the Shimano Aero Technium MGS 10000 XSA beat the Basia consistently and unequivocally.

*As as side bar,* having nothing to do with distance, and I'll need to double check, but I believe the Shimano has 44 lbs of drag compared to 33lb for the basia. The Shimano has a gear ratio of 4.3 compared to 4.1 for the Basia.....with the large diameter spool, the Shimano returns line at a staggering 40+" per handle crank.

The HDX has performed very well for me with Spinning setup......not as well with conventional.....but it has been tops with high performance spinning reels.


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## Kwesi W.

Awesome Report!


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## HellRhaY

great report dsurf/dcast.
very nice.

i don't own the aero technium, can you please tell me the spool diameter and spool lip diameter of the techium? 

all shimano surf reels have 20kg of drag while the daiwa has 15kg of drag.
your results are surprising to me as well.
i always thought that an aggressively tapered spool would always outcast the the spools of the aero reels. 

if you can give me the spool measurements of the technium so i can compare it to my aero, i'd really appreciate it. I need to get one of those reels. Is your technium the European or JDM version?


i have here a photo of distance spinning reels. from left to right; daiwa basia, shimano power aero, daiwa powersurf.


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## Stevie Wonder

Dsurf... Thanks for sharing your efforts. Terrific report! I've been an admire of the Basia qd #5 spool. I guess you have to tip your hat to Shimano?


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## dsurf

HellRhaY said:


> great report dsurf/dcast.
> 
> 
> i don't own the aero technium, can you please tell me the spool diameter and spool lip diameter of the techium?
> 
> all shimano surf reels have 20kg of drag while the daiwa has 15kg of drag.
> 
> if you can give me the spool measurements of the technium so i can compare it to my aero, i'd really appreciate it. I need to get one of those reels. Is your technium the European or JDM version?


HR
Thanks for reading and commenting........
The Shimano spool diameter (76mm) was provided in the original post....you would need to clarify "spool lip diameter". Perhaps you're asking for the diameter of the spool where the line lays, and separately a measurement at tip (lip end)....please clarify. The 76 mm is at the lip.

The 20kg and 15kg are equivalent to the 44lb and 33lb respectively, as mentioned in the original post.

The Shimano, of course, was made in Japan....but marketed to Europe.....I purchased it from a European dealer (GB).


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## eric

well i know we all like distance..

but what about straight cranking power..

which reel is smoothier then butter when hauling in ass, and then some?


could you also try throwing a 150gr.. see how the spool's lip will affect the distance as the line level goes down.


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## fiore

Sweeett! Nice write up of JDM stuffs!


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## dsurf

*Comparison*

Wanted to respond to a couple questions:

*Which reel is smoother/best cranking power?*

I give the nod to the Shimano....it's sooooo smoooooth......and strong.

*How do they perform with 150 gm sinker?*

Took both outfits, same setup, out again to answer that very question..........hot day, no wind.

Threw about 4 or 5 casts with each setup....again the Shimano performed best and even more emphatically than before.

Best cast with the Basia was around 155 yards.
Best with the Shimano was 172 yds .......I was able to get this yardage more than once.

Again I found this surprising. I'm convinced the aero wrap on the Shimano is the difference getter....and it's not just HYPE.

Had I not experienced it myself, not sure I would believe the Aero Technium would so soundly and emphatically outperform the Basia.........kudos to Shimano.

*Please note*:
I would not classify the Shimano as JDM......if you'll notice it's not offered for sale on any of the popular Japan only sites...........it is offered at many Great Britain tackle shops.


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## zinedine

Superb write up..there was an article from a japanese website which also revealed that the 35mm spool will outcast the 45mm spool on heavier weights. 


It was rumoured that the 45mm spools were actually meant for lighter sinkers/plug casting(Weights up to 2 oz)whereby the smaller coils will have less impact on the distance.

I might be wrong though..

once again..great write up!!


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## zinedine

below are a few links which will help fellow forummers understand the Jxxxan concept of surfcasting..

http://www.hi-net.zaq.ne.jp/kobe-csf/
click on the left column titled SC. then click on `technical consideration` Volume 45. It highlights the difference in distance when casting the tournament z45c vs tournament surf 35.

http://tv.shimano.co.jp/movie/original/promotion_casting/

http://tv.shimano.co.jp/movie/original/promotion_fixcel/

http://72.14.235.104/translate_c?hl...n&sa=G&usg=ALkJrhi4ctjVkSTU02UFLC7I5HHWGMxPBg

http://sports.geocities.jp/skyer_7755/ibento-midasi.html#Âç²ñ»²Àïµ­

http://202.79.4.43/club/kobe-csf/06/vol22/vol22_4.html

http://www2.ucatv.ne.jp/~yoshi_1i.sun/

Cheerss..


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## Green Cart

*Diameter vs Length*

I believe that diameter is more important than length for distance casting. Thus Shimano outcast Daiwa because Shimano has diameter of 76 mm while Daiwa has diameter of 66 mm.

Shimano also has one advantage over Daiwa in that Shimano has a line capacity of 440 yds-12 # while Daiwa has a line capacity of only 263 yds-12#. So if I increase the mono # to 17 or 20, Daiwa will not hold enough line.


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## dsurf

*Distance*



Green Cart said:


> I believe that diameter is more important than length for distance casting. Thus Shimano outcast Daiwa because Shimano has diameter of 76 mm while Daiwa has diameter of 66 mm.
> 
> Shimano also has one advantage over Daiwa in that Shimano has a line capacity of 440 yds-12 # while Daiwa has a line capacity of only 263 yds-12#. So if I increase the mono # to 17 or 20, Daiwa will not hold enough line.


GC,
I must disagree and here's why.......let's take your hypothesis that diameter is more important than spool length for distance casting.......Now let's identify a reel that meets that criteria:
a Penn 950. How many folks actually believe the Penn 950 or 850 or 750 can outcast any 35 or 45mm spool?

As originally stated, I believe that one of the reasons the Shimano outperformed the Daiwa was it's ability to keep the line at the minimum distance from the spool lip as line is dispersed....the deeper you go the more friction there is with the lip.....you can imagine the friction created with the Penn 950 as more line comes off the spool. It's deep spool, created by a larger diameter and less spool length is not conducive to minimizing spool lip friction. There are design characteristics than can offset and enhance the line dispersion from the spool lip, and Shimano has done that with all there new reels with the line management system, including the new spool lip design. There are a host of other reels in the same category as the Penn, including the US reels, which claim maximum distance.......humm.....


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## zinedine

I maybe right or wrong here..

The shimano technium has a spool length of 35 n a diameter of 76mm + the new aero wrap technology allowed for better release of line as it keeps the line as close to the spool lip as possible to minimise friction. this enabled the shimano to outcast the daiwa.

Has anyone ever come across a reel which is 45mm in length n 76mm in diameter. Would this combo enable the line to uncoil faster? ceteris paribus..all else being equal.

Cheers mate


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## Green Cart

*Cast Area = PI * D * H*

Dsurf and I failed to consider both spool depth (D) and spool length (H) as cast area.

Daiwa has a cast area of 9.33 square mm while Shamino has a cast area of 8.35 square mm. In theory, Daiwa should have cast further, but it is the other way around in Dsurf's actual casts.

However, Dsurf's casts show very little differences between Daiwa and Shamino.

It could be due to Shamino having a better relationship of depth and length than Daiwa or Shamino could be a better designed reel than Daiwa.

It has been fun discussing the pros and cons.


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## Green Cart

*Cast Area Corrections*

I could not edit my own previous thread so I am posting a new post. Maybe someone can tell me how to for next time.

I made decimal errors.  Daiwa cast area should be 9326 square mm while Shimano cast area should be 8352 square mm.

According to the large differences between Daiwa and Shimano cast areas, Daiwa should have cast further than Shimano, but Dsurf's casts show otherwise. Oh! Well!


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## zinedine

yes..it is fun having to discuss the pros n cons. in this way..everybody learns.


probably the big manufacturers could include some of what we discussed here into consideration before they design a new surf cast spinner. 

Boy..those fellas from land of the rising sun sure have some tricked out reels to offer but OUCH..its gonna burn a big hole in my pocket.


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## Torpedo

I wonder how this new Daiwa will fare....

http://www.daiwa.com/Reel/detail.aspx?ID=441


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## ReelinRod

Torpedo said:


> I wonder how this new Daiwa will fare....
> 
> http://www.daiwa.com/Reel/detail.aspx?ID=441


That is just a stripped down, dumbed down Americanized version of a reel that's been available for over a year in the *UK called the Linear*. There are two models in the UK the X, with 8BB with 4 of them being corrosion resistant bearings and the S with 4 regular bearings. 

Over there the spool is heralded as being of the same profile as the legendary Tournament S-5000T; we just get a "long cast design" description . . . No doubt because we never had the Tournament ST series offered for sale here; elsewhere in the world it's quality and performance are well known entities.

This Black "Bite-n-Run" seems to be the UK's S model with the 4 bearings being CRBB's and much subdued cosmetics. The UK models are members of the "Diawa Tournament" family, we get the "Sealine" moniker.

If this reel's retail is over $200 I'd just throw a few more bucks out there and get the Linear X; it can be had for around $235 including shipping from the UK. . . 

I'm tired of being considered the crosseyed misfit stepchild by Daiwa and Shimano when it comes to high quality fishing tackle.

Daiwa is bringing the Tournament Whisker SS3000 back on the market . . . Think it will be available here???


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## columbo333

dSurf,

Thx for your efforts and concise outcomes.

Man Brother, gotta say ex-so-len-tooo

Certainly was very insightful for me, man when I grow up I wanna be just as knowledgeable within this discipline of fishn as u, kidding Bud but i throughly enjoyed the read. A+


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## columbo333

dsurf said:


> GC,
> I must disagree and here's why.......let's take your hypothesis that diameter is more important than spool length for distance casting.......Now let's identify a reel that meets that criteria:
> a Penn 950. How many folks actually believe the Penn 950 or 850 or 750 can outcast any 35 or 45mm spool?
> 
> As originally stated, I believe that one of the reasons the Shimano outperformed the Daiwa was it's ability to keep the line at the minimum distance from the spool lip as line is dispersed....the deeper you go the more friction there is with the lip.....you can imagine the friction created with the Penn 950 as more line comes off the spool. It's deep spool, created by a larger diameter and less spool length is not conducive to minimizing spool lip friction. There are design characteristics than can offset and enhance the line dispersion from the spool lip, and Shimano has done that with all there new reels with the line management system, including the new spool lip design. There are a host of other reels in the same category as the Penn, including the US reels, which claim maximum distance.......humm.....


Makes sense to me


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## 9 rock

dsurf said:


> GC,
> I must disagree and here's why.......let's take your hypothesis that diameter is more important than spool length for distance casting.......Now let's identify a reel that meets that criteria:
> a Penn 950. How many folks actually believe the Penn 950 or 850 or 750 can outcast any 35 or 45mm spool?
> 
> As originally stated, I believe that one of the reasons the Shimano outperformed the Daiwa was it's ability to keep the line at the minimum distance from the spool lip as line is dispersed....the deeper you go the more friction there is with the lip.....you can imagine the friction created with the Penn 950 as more line comes off the spool. It's deep spool, created by a larger diameter and less spool length is not conducive to minimizing spool lip friction. There are design characteristics than can offset and enhance the line dispersion from the spool lip, and Shimano has done that with all there new reels with the line management system, including the new spool lip design. There are a host of other reels in the same category as the Penn, including the US reels, which claim maximum distance.......humm.....


8nB on the beach the distance would be pretty equal in the average casters hand with braid ,, mono would be a different story 


9


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