# Surf Fishing Weight Question



## Bosco (Jan 2, 2017)

There is a lot of mention here about ounces of weight to use when fishing, in this case surf fishing. The amount of weight talked about seems to be high, 6, 7, 8+ oz.
I have never surf fished OBX so I don't know. Is so much weight being used to properly load the longer rods to obtain distance or to stay anchored in the strong currents. Or both?


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

That is why you need some many rods. 


I have never fished the OBX. But have AI in MD and other places.

On a calm day maybe you can use 4oz. will hold bottom. And a rod rated 8-12oz. would not load very well if at all. So you need a rods rated 4 - 6oz or so.

Some days 4oz. won't hold bottom and you have to use 6, 8 or 10oz. of lead and your rod rated 4 - 6 oz. will not handle the heavier lead weight.

Then you have to think about the sensitivity of the rod tip and rod length.

Pretty soon you have more combos then hair on your head.


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## BigWillJ (Jan 21, 2001)

Bosco said:


> There is a lot of mention here about ounces of weight to use when fishing, in this case surf fishing. The amount of weight talked about seems to be high, 6, 7, 8+ oz.
> I have never surf fished OBX so I don't know. Is so much weight being used to properly load the longer rods to obtain distance or to stay anchored in the strong currents. Or both?


Depends on what you're fishing for, where they are in the surf, and what you're throwing at them, just like surf fishing the So shores, including Kure. I believe somebody mentioned you fish the So beaches, including Kure? That, and what O said.


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## dawgfsh (Mar 1, 2005)

Not only do you have to allow for current you also have to allow for bigger baits.
A 4 oz may hold a couple of shrimp at 50 yards but it may take 8 or more to hold half a menhaden at 100 yards in the same area. Also as the tide picks up speed (the last 2 hours before high) more lead may be needed. In my opinion you need 3 rods to cover all bases. 

1) 7' rod rated to about 3/4 oz. flounder, trout, puppy drum.. ect
2) 9-10' rated to about 4 oz. med. to light bottom rigs and metal
3) 11-12' rated to about 12 oz. big drum, cobia, sharks and rays


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## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

It is really about what is going on in the ocean and where you are fishing and what you are fishing for. You USUALLY want to use the lightest weight that will hold bottom (unless you are fishing the Congo line but that is a whole tread in and of itself, I believe it is in the bible)

As Orest said this is why most people fishing the OBX will have a bunch of rods with them unless they live there and know what the day is going to bring. That being said I, again, usually bring with me on a trip to the Islands:

* 7'6" inshore rod - for catching bait and what ever else is in the wash (think a heavy bass rod). I will throw metal and jigs with this and light bottom rigs
* 9'0" light lead rod 1-4oz - again for close work or very light seas
* 10'5" "surf rod" - this is what MOST of the world considers a surf rod 4-8oz. Not a true heaver but will still move medium weight and bait out to the 1st or 2nd slough
* 12-14' Heaver - for throwing bait'n'8+. The ocean kicks a little harder and more dramatic on the OBX than in most places. This is the rods you hear about guys use for trying to hold bottom on heavy surf days and trying to clear the 1st or 2nd bar.

With this I bring backups or duplicates depending on what time of year it is and what is normally biting. If it is Oct/Nov and big drum is the name of the game I will bring a 2nd heaver to dead stick while I am fishing the other. This one I will have setup with a Shimano 6500 Baitrunner. If it is late spring or summer I will bring an extra light rod for the same reason but the likelihood of catching big drum is low but Cobia and Tarpon are not unheard of. For this I will dead stick a heaver and fish for food a little closer. 

So the round about answer to your question is rods are made for particular weight. Particular weight is used to hold bottom.

Do you need all of the above rods, hell no! Is it nice to have...:fishing:

BTW I have about 15 rods, 7 of which I use regularly. I would save up and buy what you need rather than a bunch of mid-level junk like I have now. I would rather have one GOOD heaver than 4 so-so rods at the same cost. I would rather have one good metal rod than 4 trying to find what I wanted for less. If you are not going to spend a lot of time fishing the OBX, IDK if I would invest in a true heaver and just get a good mid-weight rod 4-8oz and maybe not be able to hit the huge distance with the big lead. Also, a good rod does not make a good cast just like a good rifle does not make a good shooter.


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## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

Dawgfish - apparently you and I had the same idea at the same time


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## dawgfsh (Mar 1, 2005)

spydermn said:


> Dawgfish - apparently you and I had the same idea at the same time


 yep


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## Bosco (Jan 2, 2017)

My head is still spinning, a lot of good info. The closest that I have to a heaver is a couple of 12' Ugly Sticks rated 3-8 oz. I also have a 11' St. Croix MOJO rated for 3-8 oz. Dealing with a bad back, these are about all the heavers that I need.


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## digiRAMbo (Dec 16, 2015)

Bosco said:


> My head is still spinning, a lot of good info. The closest that I have to a heaver is a couple of 12' Ugly Sticks rated 3-8 oz. I also have a 11' St. Croix MOJO rated for 3-8 oz. Dealing with a bad back, these are about all the heavers that I need.


How far can you cast your Ugly Stik though? I have a 10' spinning and 12' casting, but can't cast too far due to the sloppy tip. Maybe there's a special technique out there to cast Ugly Stik surf rods (I'm not even sure if these can be considered true surf rods, minus the length).


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2017)

Bosco said:


> There is a lot of mention here about ounces of weight to use when fishing, in this case surf fishing. The amount of weight talked about seems to be high, 6, 7, 8+ oz.
> I have never surf fished OBX so I don't know. Is so much weight being used to properly load the longer rods to obtain distance or to stay anchored in the strong currents. Or both?


The weight is to hold your bait in place....Not to properly load any given long rod. Where and what u fish for dictates the weight needed to be used, thus the rod needed to be used to throw that weight. You can get 12 foot rods that will only handle up to a few ounces. Then there are 12 foot rods that can handle 16 oz. The weight of the bait, rig, and fishing conditions dictates how heavy of a rod u will need to use


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## dawgfsh (Mar 1, 2005)

Bosco said:


> My head is still spinning, a lot of good info. The closest that I have to a heaver is a couple of 12' Ugly Sticks rated 3-8 oz. I also have a 11' St. Croix MOJO rated for 3-8 oz. Dealing with a bad back, these are about all the heavers that I need.


That 11' mojo would be the first rod I would try with those new casting reels.


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2017)

Bosco said:


> There is a lot of mention here about ounces of weight to use when fishing, in this case surf fishing. The amount of weight talked about seems to be high, 6, 7, 8+ oz.
> I have never surf fished OBX so I don't know. Is so much weight being used to properly load the longer rods to obtain distance or to stay anchored in the strong currents. Or both?


The OBX gets rough as do some of the tidal rivers along the coast. Tide and currents that u cannot see on the seabed will roll and move your bait so 6 - 10 oz maybe needed to hold. A rod that can launch that payload will be needed. As mentioned there is the conga line where these OBX pros have that dance down to a science. I fish mainly tidal rivers so keeping my bait still on the bottom is extremely important. The James River is one of the snaggiest waters I've ever fished. So rolling and twisting into snags gets costly and time consuming. But then again if you remember the area u snag in and fish around it you can usually catch.


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## DaBig2na (Aug 7, 2011)

Oister said:


> The weight is to hold your bait in place....Not to properly load any given long rod. Where and what u fish for dictates the weight needed to be used, thus the rod needed to be used to throw that weight. You can get 12 foot rods that will only handle up to a few ounces. Then there are 12 foot rods that can handle 16 oz. The weight of the bait, rig, and fishing conditions dictates how heavy of a rod u will need to use


Sorry pal That ain't it!

The purpose is twofold.. Loading the rod and holding the bait stable on the bottom. Properly loading the rod is going to acheive the maximum potential of said rod. A four ounce sinker wouldn't even begin to load a 1509 , 1306, fusion mag etc..but then again I wouldn't choose those to pompano fish with either.


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2017)

DaBig2na said:


> Sorry pal That ain't it!
> 
> The purpose is twofold.. Loading the rod and holding the bait stable on the bottom. Properly loading the rod is going to acheive the maximum potential of said rod.


What do u mean ? If I need 10 to hold I'm gonna use a rod that throws 10.... This same rod that throws 10 will load properly with 10. If I only need 3 to hold a given spot then I will use a rod that loads properly at 3 oz...... Not an 8-12 heaver. What did I say wrong?


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2017)

DaBig2na said:


> Sorry pal That ain't it!
> 
> The purpose is twofold.. Loading the rod and holding the bait stable on the bottom. Properly loading the rod is going to acheive the maximum potential of said rod. A four ounce sinker wouldn't even begin to load a 1509 , 1306, fusion mag etc..but then again I wouldn't choose those to pompano fish with either.


In his question he thinks he needs 8 oz to use a long rod. Long rods can be any length and multiple load ratings. The Op's original question implys he needs a lot of weight to load and use long rods. There are 15 foot crappie rods that only handle a half ounce


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## DaBig2na (Aug 7, 2011)

Oister said:


> The weight is to hold your bait in place....Not to properly load any given long rod.


That what I based my reply on...

Most all factory made rods will have a "lure weight" go with that for now Bosco.. Usually right around the middle of those numbers you'll find the "sweet spot" of where the rod performs the best.


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2017)

DaBig2na said:


> That what I based my reply on...


Sorry....But I didn't mean it the way it was understood. I was just trying to explain every long rod doesn't need big weights . My bad


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2017)

Oister said:


> Sorry....But I didn't mean it the way it was understood. I was just trying to explain every long rod doesn't need big weights . My bad


"Not to properly load any given long rod". Meaning big weights are not needed to "properly load any LONG rod"...... Nice editing


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## Guest (Jan 11, 2017)

As 2Na says, stick to the weight rating. I didn't mean to junk this up.


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## George Gravier (Oct 28, 1999)

I use a minimum of 8 oz on my 13ft rods regardless of conditions, they don't load well under less than that, my spot/roundhead rods are rated up to 6 oz but I use 4oz if its holding just lob them out there anyways..


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## BigWillJ (Jan 21, 2001)

Bosco said:


> .... Dealing with a bad back, these are about all the heavers that I need.


Bad backs and heavers don't blend well.
Hope you're spending some money on having that bad back taken care of, rather than spending money on "heavers", while asking about throwing them with weights up to 8 oz.....especially for "distance", which you seem to be interested in doing.
Wouldn't want you to waste your hard earned cash on something you might not be able to enjoy! Again, especially when you talk about "properly" loading a longer rod!! Get that back fixed.


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## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

As said above (not sure if it got lost in the posts) remember that you are not just launching a weight. You are throwing: lead, hook (can weigh a good bit if you are using 6/0-10/0), beads, terminal tackle (swivels, "fishfinder"/snaplock/coastlock, beads and don't forget about the 2-6 oz chunk of fish or other bait you are adding into the equation. A quick est would be when throwing "bait'n'8" is much closer to 12-14oz than 8oz. In that case you need to look for a rod that has a sweet spot of 12-16 oz.

CCP 8-12oz Casting
Lamiglass SB160-4M-B Blank - I don't like that this is 1 piece. to hard for me to store and get to the coast
Penn Battalion 12'surf
Penn Carnage II 12" surf
There is also TICA (usually considered a little light to be a true heaver), and other customs but the above are readily available. Personally I am saving up for a CCP. I don't know how true it is but I have been told that a rod with a narrow weight range is a more effective rod at throwing the designed weight than one with a large weight range. That is a question for the rod builders at it is above my pay grade
as for your rods you have a great mid-weight rod in that Mojo. I would sell the two ugly sticks to some cat fishermen and save towards one of the above customs or a factory CCP or other true heaver. As stated the Ugly sticks are just to whippy to throw heavy lead and the tip is just strange (IMHO). I love their shorter rods for freshwater "bass rods" and both my kids have them for wash fishing for sea rats but as a heaver, not really worth their cost. Again, this is my opinion.


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## NC KingFisher (Nov 20, 2011)

I've actually got one of the new ugly stick big waters in 10ft, I think it's 8-12. Keep my fathom 40 on it and have used it for everything from heaving to using as my fighting rod. Was surprised at its performance, not as good as the 12ft on that it replaced(snapped), but for $79 it's a solid choice IMO for a backup or shorter alternative. I was slinging 8 and half a blue about 80yds with no wind relatively easy. In regards to the weight, I will sling 8 of the beach with any of my heavers, just to keep everything in order. On the pier I will drop to 6 depending on conditions


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## Bosco (Jan 2, 2017)

Thank you to all that provided info, different opinions is a good thing, more to learn from. One thing is the Ugly Stick compared to the Mojo, weight wise, is like fishing with a 2x4, definitely chunk the Ugly and spike it, too heavy to hold all day by comparison the Mojo is like a feather. I only wish the Mojo was designed to use with Spinning reel and mono.


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## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

Bosco - it is a nice blank and if you like it that much have it rebuilt for spinning. all that is needed are new guides, reel seat and handles. Depending on where you are in NC there is probably someone close to you that builds customs that could give you a quote to do it. I have taken a couple off the shelf rods and customized them to my liking if I like the blank. One I can think of off the top of my head is a Ocean Master 12' spinning that i had Chuck P. put a different reel seat on because the composite one was flexing to much. at the same time he moved the seat so I could cast it better. He used to be in this page a bit, but I am not sure he still is much but I can get you his info if you want to go that route. Also dont forget that the rod building show is coming up in Feb in Winston Salem. http://www.icrbe.com/
I am gonna look there for a custom heaver this year. If I don't find one I like more than the CCP then Tommy is getting an order from me.


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## Bosco (Jan 2, 2017)

spydermn said:


> Bosco - it is a nice blank and if you like it that much have it rebuilt for spinning. all that is needed are new guides, reel seat and handles. Depending on where you are in NC there is probably someone close to you that builds customs that could give you a quote to do it. I have taken a couple off the shelf rods and customized them to my liking if I like the blank. One I can think of off the top of my head is a Ocean Master 12' spinning that i had Chuck P. put a different reel seat on because the composite one was flexing to much. at the same time he moved the seat so I could cast it better. He used to be in this page a bit, but I am not sure he still is much but I can get you his info if you want to go that route. Also dont forget that the rod building show is coming up in Feb in Winston Salem. http://www.icrbe.com/
> I am gonna look there for a custom heaver this year. If I don't find one I like more than the CCP then Tommy is getting an order from me.


It is already a spinning rod, so I would only need to have guides changed. The guides, especially first guide, are small. contacted St. Croix, they explained that even though thisMojo is a spinning rod it is designed for braid line. I got a Blue yonder for Christmas so i am thinking of using it. The first guide is smaller than some of the casting rods that I have.


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## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

Its a micro guide setup. Use it, you will love it

I have a st. Croix Triumph about the same size and if I am going to bring just ONE rod with me it is that rod with a 3500 shimano baitrunner, 15# mono and some 20# floro. It is a great setup for everything from dead stick to casting metal...so long as your arm can hack it! It gets heavy to throw metal or jigs but works great!


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## Bosco (Jan 2, 2017)

spydermn said:


> Its a micro guide setup. Use it, you will love it
> 
> I have a st. Croix Triumph about the same size and if I am going to bring just ONE rod with me it is that rod with a 3500 shimano baitrunner, 15# mono and some 20# floro. It is a great setup for everything from dead stick to casting metal...so long as your arm can hack it! It gets heavy to throw metal or jigs but works great!


St. Croix said the Triumph and one other rod, Avid, have larger eyed guides that work well with mono on the MOJO mono tends to bird nest at first guide because on mono coiling with spinner reel. That is why I was going to use a casting reel, Blue Yonder


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## Bosco (Jan 2, 2017)

spydermn said:


> Its a micro guide setup. Use it, you will love it
> 
> I have a st. Croix Triumph about the same size and if I am going to bring just ONE rod with me it is that rod with a 3500 shimano baitrunner, 15# mono and some 20# floro. It is a great setup for everything from dead stick to casting metal...so long as your arm can hack it! It gets heavy to throw metal or jigs but works great!


Spy, check pm


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## DaBig2na (Aug 7, 2011)

First off if the mojo is set up for spinning then most likely you will be going against the spline that runs down the length of the rod if you go conventional. I know that this is going to confuse you a bit ... No need to change out the guide either.. Again the rod is set up for spinning from the factory.. By the time you have the work done you will have more $ in the rod than what it's actually worth. 

Buy a conventional surfcasting rod for the reels you mentioned Bosco. If you don't want to spend a great deal of $ right now I suggest looking at the Penn Battalion XH 12 BATSF2550C12, Ocean Master 12' 3-6 oz 12,(because it's lighter than the 6-12 and throws 8nBait just fine) , or the Tsunami Trophy 12' XH. These rods will get you started on the right track and will do just fine.

There is a guy on eBay selling built Rainshadow 1508 and 1509s pretty cheap usually in the low 200.00 range..Keep your eye on the Marketplace section of this forum and something will pop up..


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## SteveZ (Nov 30, 2006)

DaBig2na said:


> There is a guy on eBay selling built Rainshadow 1508 and 1509s pretty cheap usually in the low 200.00 range.


Be aware that these are the older SU15XX blanks...not a 50-50 split. That SU1509 has been responsible for putting about eighteen jillion big fish on the beach. Too bad Rainshadow got out of the heaver business. I absolutely love my SUR1508s (drum) and SUR1506s (stripers). I also have one SUR1505 which I use for a bait rod.


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## Bosco (Jan 2, 2017)

DaBig2na said:


> First off if the mojo is set up for spinning then most likely you will be going against the spline that runs down the length of the rod if you go conventional. I know that this is going to confuse you a bit ... No need to change out the guide either.. Again the rod is set up for spinning from the factory.. By the time you have the work done you will have more $ in the rod than what it's actually worth.
> 
> Buy a conventional surfcasting rod for the reels you mentioned Bosco. If you don't want to spend a great deal of $ right now I suggest looking at the Penn Battalion XH 12 BATSF2550C12, Ocean Master 12' 3-6 oz 12,(because it's lighter than the 6-12 and throws 8nBait just fine) , or the Tsunami Trophy 12' XH. These rods will get you started on the right track and will do just fine.
> 
> There is a guy on eBay selling built Rainshadow 1508 and 1509s pretty cheap usually in the low 200.00 range..Keep your eye on the Marketplace section of this forum and something will pop up..


Quick and simple..what is the spline that you are referring to? I do know that the first guide, nearest the reel, is reversed so that the guide stabilizers point towards the rod tip to help prevent line, mainly mono, from 'nesting' there. I found the receipt last night so I think I am going to return the rod this weekend, problem solved, hate it though it just feels good in your hands. I am leaning towards the Battalion, I have a couple of spinners, really like them and now problems yet. Again, thanks for your help.


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## baitsnatcher (Aug 14, 2006)

spydermn said:


> Bosco - it is a nice blank and if you like it that much have it rebuilt for spinning. all that is needed are new guides, reel seat and handles. Depending on where you are in NC there is probably someone close to you that builds customs that could give you a quote to do it. I have taken a couple off the shelf rods and customized them to my liking if I like the blank. One I can think of off the top of my head is a Ocean Master 12' spinning that i had Chuck P. put a different reel seat on because the composite one was flexing to much. at the same time he moved the seat so I could cast it better. He used to be in this page a bit, but I am not sure he still is much but I can get you his info if you want to go that route. Also dont forget that the rod building show is coming up in Feb in Winston Salem. http://www.icrbe.com/
> I am gonna look there for a custom heaver this year. If I don't find one I like more than the CCP then Tommy is getting an order from me.


Ryan White will be giving a seminar on building surf rods at the rod building expo. Be a good one to sit in on.


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## Jollymon (May 21, 2015)

The spine is the side of the rod that flexs the least, Think of it this way,Stand up and bend backwards, now bend forward, when you bent forward you formed a arch,you can't bend that much to the rear. A Fishing Rod bends the same way.It has a Spine . To find it take the Rod Blank and from the top push down on it ,it will arch with the spine out mark it with a marker.
So now that you know where it is you can see were you reel seat and guides will go,For a Spinner inside the arch, Conventional along the spine.So if you put a Spinning Reel on a Conventional it will arch against the spine and be to stiff and stressful , vice versa for a Spinner.

I hope I got that correct, it's been a bit since it was explained to me


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## Bosco (Jan 2, 2017)

Jollymon said:


> The spine is the side of the rod that flexs the least, Think of it this way,Stand up and bend backwards, now bend forward, when you bent forward you formed a arch,you can't bend that much to the rear. A Fishing Rod bends the same way.It has a Spine . To find it take the Rod Blank and from the top push down on it ,it will arch with the spine out mark it with a marker.
> So now that you know where it is you can see were you reel seat and guides will go,For a Spinner inside the arch, Conventional along the spine.So if you put a Spinning Reel on a Conventional it will arch against the spine and be to stiff and stressful , vice versa for a Spinner.
> 
> I hope I got that correct, it's been a bit since it was explained to me


Dang just keep learning, Thanks So if I have a spinning rod,standing on the beach facing the water, with rod level parallel to the water surface..should the rod bend easier towards the water or sky?


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## Jollymon (May 21, 2015)

Bosco said:


> Dang just keep learning, Thanks So if I have a spinning rod,standing on the beach facing the water, with rod level parallel to the water surface..should the rod bend easier towards the water or sky?


 Towards the water


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## bigjim5589 (Jul 23, 2005)

One thing I didn't see mentioned is the type of weight used for the bottom type. Use a heavy enough weight, regardless of type & it's going to hold bottom. How much weight that will be will be dictated by the conditions as has been mentioned. 

However, the type of bottom, hard or soft can help reduce the amount of weight if the proper type of weight is used. I think many just go with what they have & the heaviest they have that they know will hold bottom where they're fishing. There are many types of weights/sinkers and each type has an intended use. Some are better on hard bottoms than others. Selecting the correct type for the location can certainly help with how much weight is actually needed. Still, it's usually not going to be a great difference, an ounce or two, but that can make a difference with rod selection, particularly for anglers who have limited choices. Just as a simplified example, if an 8 oz pyramid style sinker will hold bottom, it may be that a 6 oz claw style for the same rig may hold just as well, so a person who doesn't have the rod that can handle 8 oz, but does have a rod for 6 oz, can still fish effectively, provided of course that weight can be cast to an area that holds fish. As said, lots of variables to consider.


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## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

I for one always carry some lower weights. When conditions allow I always fish a moving weight in the slew. Those who know, know what the result is...


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## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

AbuMike said:


> I for one always carry some lower weights. When conditions allow I always fish a moving weight in the slew. Those who know, know what the result is...


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## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

Steve and Tuna put to words what I failed to about the spine. I need to stop typing in such a rush. What I was trying to say is that you can turn a spinning rod into a casting rod but you will usually need different guides and to have it re-wrapped for the spine. This is also why you should "test" premade rods as many of the cheaper rods that are wrapped en-mass the builder does not care about the spine. They just slap the guides on and move to the next one.


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## joek (Jun 1, 2015)

I get the spine and guide placement in relation to the spine when talking about spinning and boat rods.
Seems to me if you are talking conventional surf casting rods you would want the guides on the opposite side 
of the blank but the spine facing the same way for both spinning and conventional casing rods.
putting the soft spine facing down flexes more and aids casting.
putting the hard spine down resists flex and aids lifting (boat rod)
What am i missing. Have i got it wrong ?

Excuse me. After re-reading some i think thats what jollymon said.


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