# Surf casting reels



## reeldude56

For large drum, what's the best bang for the buck today? From what I have read so far, penn fathom ii 15 seems to be pretty popular for $200. Have looked at abu and akois but keep leaning toward the penn.

What are you guys using that's easy on the wallet?
Thanks


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## Surfjunkie

Best bang for the buck is the fathom 1 12 and 15. For around the same price a used saltist bg20h is a good bet too. If you wanna spend the extra money a new fathom 2 12sd and 15cssd seem like solid choices. I dont see as many of the newer black and blue saltist 20h but they are probably a good choice too. Every Akios I have held has disappointed me.


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## BeachBob

While I have a lot of "high end" revolver casting reels, if I really needed to go the bottom feeder tackle route, it'd be with what I just bought and tested out - Penn Rival 15 (level wind completely removed) for $50 and a Fiblink (weird name!) 12ft 4pc rod for $65. Loaded the reel with Ande Tournament 16# mono, 40# shock leader, and with a 4oz payload the first Hatterras style cast went just shy of 300ft. 

In order to fully remove the level wind on the Rival, I needed to pull off both sides, so I got an upfront and personal look a the guts and I was kinda impressed with quality, which included HT100 drag washers. The Penn site says the reel uses a "mechanical" drag, but I couldn't find any spool centrifugal brakes. I called up Penn and the rep I spoke with said "mechanical" meant using yer thumb. Hah! The reel could be magged, but at least for me it's not necessary. Subsequent tosses went over 300ft and nary a fluff on the spool.

Pretty impressed with that Fiblink surf rod, too. Well made with decent components. I also bought the 10ft version to use for plugging with an Abu 6501LW reel.

The acid test for any surf tackle outfit is a season on the beach - that'll hafta wait 'til the coming Spring for me.

Life's still good. 










BB.


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## capefox

I've been very happy with my Akios 757 CTM, Penn Fathom II 15, Daiwa Seagate 30H, and Penn Squall 15 conventional star drag reels for surf fishing. They are all good reels for your purpose. However, all things considered, if I had to pick one it would be the Fathom II 15.


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## Rougesun

Nothing better than like a Saltist 20h, IMHO.

A little expensive at $240 or so but worth it’s weight in gold.


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## Catch This

I just switched all of my drum reels from the Diawa Saltists to the Penn Fathoms. I put the Fathom 15's on my 12 and 13 ft rods and the the Fathom 12 on the 10 footer.


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## Tommy

Try the new Akios F15 Nitron. It is a great drum reel.


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## Sandcrab

Tommy,

I just got my new F15 Nitron from Joe. I tested it a couple of days ago. Best cast - so far - was 401' with an 8 oz sinker. I know there is a lot more distance that can be achieved with this reel. It rocks!


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## BeachBob

For the bucks, hard to beat most any Akios reel, they take the Abu to much higher level of build and performance.


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## Gravedigger

I was at the point for the last week and the most common reel is the fathom2. Most of the locals are using them also.


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## BeachBob

The Fathom2 is a very good reel, one of many. Not at all to dis the Fathom family, but like many things in life it can be monkey see, monkey do, and then on to the next tackle fashion fad. Fishing tackle today is a bountiful treasure of great choices, unlike way back in my day.


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## reeldude56

BeachBob said:


> The Fathom2 is a very good reel, one of many. Not at all to dis the Fathom family, but like many things in life it can be monkey see, monkey do, and then on to the next tackle fashion fad. Fishing tackle today is a bountiful treasure of great choices, unlike way back in my day.


I agree that there are several to choose from and don't have any hands on experience with any of them today.


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## BeachBob

While the reel and line are quite important to surf tackle, casting technique and the rod are more important in terms of casting distance. If the beach to be fished requires some serious distance, technique and using a rod that has a known payload sweet spot will almost always make all the difference. Getting a cheap, old reel to run it's spool on a loooong cast can be done, just ask Danny Moeskops ...


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## Garboman

Seigler is perhaps the best Drum reel, but for its price point. I got to use Seiglers for testing purposes and did not want to give them up when I was asked to by Ryan. When they are in tune, they bomb it out there. I went from an average DrumPro to an above average one when I put a Seigler and a 13'10" Century C-Curve in my paws Fall of 2017. Only problem with the Century was when beaching drum you could not sweep them in like with a 1307, you have to get the drum closer and point the tip at him to slide them up on the beach.

I like Fathom 15s have three of them at the moment. I saw what the other Monkeys were up to with them I went on board.

Fished a Static Magged Avet for a while, it was nice but was a bit on the short side for casting purposes on the OBX.

For a while I was enamored with an Akios Shuttle Joker let me use, until the spool bearing started to hang up. Joker graciously accepted his toasted reel bearing back from me. The other Akios issue is that the drag seems to want to slip when you are reeling in a drum bait. So you fiddle around with the star drag.

I guess I will pay the ferryman and get a couple Seiglers next, unless something really special comes along.


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## BeachBob

Seiglers are Excellent reels. I've used a couple. 

"Best" is a very Very VERY personal word to use when it comes to most of the stuff of life.


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## Gravedigger

I’ve been using Seigler’s. Have 3, looking for more.


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## BeachBob

I static magged a few Avets - SX and MX - and was pleased with the outcome. Avets are solid reels with great lever drags, but I prefer star drag reels and haven't had the opportunity yet to work with the MXL star model.

There is a kind of silliness that abounds with all of the higher end reels, where it's assumed that spendy gear is better gear. In lots of cases, yes, and in lots of cases, no. It's just fishermen listening to the hype and jumping on the band wagon and then reverberating their praises, mostly to keep up with the pack and/or to solidify the reason that the $400 reel they just bought was worth the purchase ticket.

I'll keep working with the fifty buck Rival and see if it's beach worthy.


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## 2ndbar

Seiglers/Akios/Abu/Penn--I use them all--but my favorite is the one with new line and fresh bait.


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## reeldude56

BeachBob said:


> While the reel and line are quite important to surf tackle, casting technique and the rod are more important in terms of casting distance. If the beach to be fished requires some serious distance, technique and using a rod that has a known payload sweet spot will almost always make all the difference. Getting a cheap, old reel to run it's spool on a loooong cast can be done, just ask Danny Moeskops ...


Ok, you may have me hold off on a new reel purchase for now if I can use what I have...2 abu 9000C auto 2 speed with very little use. Other than being heavier than the new surf reels, sounds like they will cast almost as far for someone just learning the proper form. Would adding a mag control be worth it to help prevent blow ups in a headwind?


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## BeachBob

Yes, most decent revolving spool reels are quite capable of decent casting distances. What does "decent" mean? I bought a bottom feeder $50 Penn Rival 15, removed the level wind, loaded it with Ande 16#, stuck it on a cheap $64 Fiblink 12ft rod and had no problem casting to 88 to 97 yards on the first outing with a 4oz sputnik sinker. The Rival has absolutely NO brakes of any kind and I can cast it hands off for the most part. Clearly there are nuances to all reels that can help or hinder serious casting distances, and lots will have to do with casting technique.

I love my Abu reels, 6501's and 5501's, some with the level winds removed for distance casting. Your Abu 9000 will be just fine as is with its spool centrifugal brakes. If you really think it will require mags, after testing/practicing without, static mags are relatively easy to add, I've done that more than a few times to Abu's, Avet's and Penn Squidders. I'm about to purchase another Avet and will not go for the MC (magnetic) model, but will add in a few static mags off the spool clicker side if need be as it's test out.

Do use mono line, load with 20# at least for starters, don't use braid at least initially. Whatever rod you test will will have a payload sweet spot, where its rated throwing weight range is typically not accurate. Try some weights in the low to mid range first before loading to the rod's "rated" max. Above all, have fun! Now load up and get throwing!


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## Don B

BeachBob said:


> The Rival has absolutely NO brakes of any kind and I can cast it hands off for the most part. Clearly there are nuances to all reels that can help or hinder serious casting distances, and lots will have to do with casting technique.


Just FYI,
I noticed the knob next to the handle and did some minor checking. The schematic lists part # 26 as Spool Tension Control Cap. Part numbers 40C & 40D are thrust washers. Normally there would be less need for cast control with a level wind reel .



> Do use mono line, load with 20# at least for starters, don't use braid at least initially. Whatever rod you test will will have a payload sweet spot, where its rated throwing weight range is typically not accurate. Try some weights in the low to mid range first before loading to the rod's "rated" max.


Exactly! Especially when casting for distance.
I have a CTS rod rated 8 to 10 ounces. It casts OK (not great) when casting 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 ounces. 
A Lamiglas GSB 1502MH broke when testing. Although it was rated 6 to 16 ounces, it broke at 10 ounces. The designer thought a tag may have been left out of the ferrule during construction. Later I asked Dick Posey how lure weights were determined. His response was "By feedback from fishermen". That was not the answer that I was expecting.

And very important.


> Above all, have fun! Now load up and get throwing!


Don


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## BeachBob

Don B said:


> Just FYI,
> I noticed the knob next to the handle and did some minor checking. The schematic lists part # 26 as Spool Tension Control Cap. Part numbers 40C & 40D are thrust washers. Normally there would be less need for cast control with a level wind reel .
> 
> Don


The spool "play" adjustment is just that - for setting the minimal side-to-side "slop" between the reel's side plates.

It is not a brake, and should not be used as a braking mechanism. 

Therefore, as a Penn tech stated to me, the Penn Rival reels have *NO* internal brakes, When the Penn website states that Rivals have "mechanical" brakes, they are referring to an external brake - the caster's thumb (I kid you not - that was also confirmed by a Penn tech).

BB.


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## 2ndbar

I used a 9000c for years. Stay with 20 lb test and keep clean after each use. No problem hitting 120+. Tighten the drag all the way down when reeling in to control the two speed.


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## Garboman

Clean the 9000s and take the side plates off both sides completely apart. and make sure you clean the bearings of gunk. Cleaning the bearings is perhaps the most important thing you can do.

I use CRC and spray rather than take apart some of the mechanisms but you have to take the drag stack apart and clean the drag washers. After drag washers are dry coat with Cals Drag Grease.

After the reel dries use Rem Oil on the bearings and spool spindles.

There may or may not be any brakes in the side plate. I would not mag it unless you are having problems. I would start with one brake block. You can use Daiwa Brake Blocks if your 9000 did not have any in it.

If you keep 3/8" of bare spool to the rim. when you load the line you will have less problems as far as blow ups and you get a better grip on the spool with your thumb.

Forget Braid for Drum Fishing everyone will talk behind your back and some right to your face, monp casts better anyway.

I have a bunch of 9000s and an 8000 and a 8600 and a bunch of 7000s. The 7000s cast better but we thought back in the day that we needed more line capacity than the 7000 carried because we mostly fished with 25 pound Stren.

For me the difference between a 7000 and a 11' SurfStick and a Penn Fathom on a 13' 1307 is about thirty or forty yards in distance with 8 ounces. 

That thirty or forty yards usually means the difference between watching and catching when Drum fishing, so I seldom use my older rods much anymore.


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## BeachBob

I can only cast lefty and I envy the plethora of righty cranks currently available - you guys are so lucky.


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## Don B

BeachBob said:


> The spool "play" adjustment is just that - for setting the minimal side-to-side "slop" between the reel's side plates.


On what type of reel would spool slop be useful ?



> It is not a brake, and should not be used as a braking mechanism.
> 
> Therefore, as a Penn tech stated to me, the Penn Rival reels have *NO* internal brakes, When the Penn website states that Rivals have "mechanical" brakes, they are referring to an external brake - the caster's thumb (I kid you not - that was also confirmed by a Penn tech).


Well, if you would check the Penn website you will find that the conventional reels without brakes will have the statement "None".


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## BeachBob

Don B said:


> On what type of reel would spool slop be useful ?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if you would check the Penn website you will find that the conventional reels without brakes will have the statement "None".


Not so for the Rival ... no "none" there, but there is that "Mechanical" word.


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## Sandcrab

I just sold an Abu 10000CL that I bought brand new in 1986. Never had a problem casting with it including shock leaders...


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## BeachBob

Don B said:


> On what type of reel would spool slop be useful ?


Having a spool centering adjustment is critical. we want the spool sides centered on the frame and that is what the dual spool center adjustment is all about - it is not a spool braking mechanism. likewise, a single spool adjustment will allow setting the spool "slop" to a very small amount, not "sloppy" and not to be used as a spool brake.


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## reeldude56

Thanks for the info and tips


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## 2ndbar

A reel not adjusted properly will allow line to possibly get wrapped up behind the spool and the frame.


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## Don B

BeachBob said:


> Having a spool centering adjustment is critical. we want the spool sides centered on the frame and that is what the dual spool center adjustment is all about


I believe we were talking about the Rival that has one knob identified as a Tension Control Knob.
What reels have one knob for centering the spool? If there is one, you would need to use shims. Maybe there is such a reel.

ABU does have carry overs from earlier reels. Their cast control caps on the 5500 and 6500 reels should not be used for cast control. They are used for centering the reel and adjusting the "slop".



> likewise, a single spool adjustment will allow setting the spool "slop" to a very small amount, not "sloppy" and not to be used as a spool brake.


I suggest you go back and review the Penn website. The reels with a knob by the handle are listed as having mechanical braking. Most of the reels without the knob list none as the type of braking. And, some of the conventional reels list magnetic as the type of braking. I did not find any listed as centrifugal type braking. Should you find any listed as centrifugal, please let me know.


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## Don B

2ndbar said:


> A reel not adjusted properly will allow line to possibly get wrapped up behind the spool and the frame.


That problem can have a few causes and sometimes causes in combination.

1. The gap between the spool and cage is excessive
2. The spool in the cage is not centered forward/aft and up/down. This will cause a gap around the spool/cage that varies wide to narrow.
3. Using line that has a small diameter.
4. Poor reel design tolerances. Poor engineering. Includes spool, cage, side plates (IOW the whole reel).

A trick used to temporarily enhance mag control for a bait caster with a magnet carriage is to move the spool to the left and closer to the magnets.


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## BeachBob

Don B said:


> I believe we were talking about the Rival that has one knob identified as a Tension Control Knob.
> What reels have one knob for centering the spool? If there is one, you would need to use shims. Maybe there is such a reel.
> 
> *One knob is NOT for centering, it's to adjust spool side play or "slop" and it is NOT for spool braking*
> 
> ABU does have carry overs from earlier reels. Their cast control caps on the 5500 and 6500 reels should not be used for cast control. They are used for centering the reel and adjusting the "slop".
> 
> *One knob will not center, nor is it for "cast control".*
> 
> I suggest you go back and review the Penn website. The reels with a knob by the handle are listed as having mechanical braking. Most of the reels without the knob list none as the type of braking. And, some of the conventional reels list magnetic as the type of braking. I did not find any listed as centrifugal type braking. Should you find any listed as centrifugal, please let me know.
> 
> *Somehow, you've not read and digested my posts about the Rival in this thread. It has ONE spool "side play" knob, It is NOT a centering knob, nor is it a spool braking device. Go back and look at the image I posted of the Penn Rival website page that lists that the Rival utilizes a "Mechanical" spool brake - this is FALSE. There are NO spool brakes of any kind on Penn Rival reels. I went as far as calling Penn - Jim, one of their tech guys, specifically stated that their listed "BRAKING SYSTEM: MECHANICAL" is an ERROR, there are no mechanical brakes, and he said "USE YOUR THUMB". He also said the Rival website page needs to be fixed, but it hasn't, and knowing Penn it never will.*


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## Don B

*"Somehow, you've not read and digested my posts about the Rival in this thread."*
OK, you go low and I will go high.

* "Go back and look at the image I posted of the Penn Rival website page that lists that the Rival utilizes a "Mechanical" spool brake* "

Yes, that does support the probability that the knob is for cast/tension control.

Also, supporting evidence from the Penn RVL15LW schematic is:
Part # 26 Spool Tension Control Cap
Part # 40C Washer, Acetal Thrust
Part # 40D Washer, Rubber Thrust
Part # 29 Spool
Part # 40E Thrust Washer (2 Req)

This may indicate that Penn considers both centrifugal and tension to be mechanical braking.

Evidence that the knob is not used for tension control is "The Penn rep says". Really!

And it has been said numerous times that the knob is for "slop" control. Wouldn't an inexpensive reel built with cost control in mind use shims to manage tolerances. Repetition does not make anything right or wrong.

The attached schematic from the Penn website is for your review.

PEN_Schematic_RIVAL RVL15LW REV 0 1403990.pdf


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## BeachBob

Spool tension is *NOT* any manner of a "spool braking system". 

Even the Penn tech recognized that fact.


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## Don B

Well, the schematic may be difficult to read and could be hard to understand.

Perhaps the following videos will have sufficient clarity.


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## BeachBob

Some folks just don't get it. Have fun with yer "no slop brake knob" and hope ya don't blow an axle.


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## Rougesun

BeachBob said:


> Spool tension is *NOT* any manner of a "spool braking system".
> 
> Even the Penn tech recognized that fact.


But it will help you cast without blowing up. Who needs mags?


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## BeachBob

Rougesun said:


> But it will help you cast without blowing up ...


So will sticking yer foot out the door of a moving car to help stop it.


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## Rougesun

Ha. You are funny.


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## BeachBob

Rougesun said:


> Ha. You are funny.


Dunno about funny, but Dead True when it comes to revolvers (reels, that is).


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## redfishnc

Rougesun said:


> Nothing better than like a Saltist 20h, IMHO.
> 
> A little expensive at $240 or so but worth it’s weight in gold.


I'm with you. Slickest reel off the shelf I've seen


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## BeachBob

I like the Saltiga SASD15HL - not many lefty revolvers out there to choose, but this one looks mighty good.


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## Rougesun

I’ve caught plenty of citation drum off the surf and planks. Fished with Penn, Avet, Abu, ect. Nothing like a Saltist 20, IMHO. To each his own. I have not fished with some of the newer reels like those Akios, Seigler or the newer Penns. They look great. However, I am more than content with the 20h. I‘ve had great luck with those for years.


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## BeachBob

We're pretty lucky to have many really good revolving spool reels to chose, unlike back in the 50's and 60's. 

Well, still not enuf lefty reel choices for me. 😃

Got a pair of Avets coming, MXL MC and SXJ MC. Life's still good.


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