# Sandflea



## hengstthomas (Mar 11, 2006)

PM from Flea
Just come out and say it 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tom,

I've always enjoyed your reports, but you are picking fights with people right and left. If you don't have anything constructive to say, then don't say it. These little coded posts about how you think the site is going to hell are nothing but drama.

Tight lines,
M.
-----------------------------------------------
I dont like PM's and havent been able to post till now so in my defense ..

http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50573&page=3
This thread is wasnt used against me was it ?

http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50672
I know this wasnt 

http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50702
We had a debate yes but I wasnt out of line and I didnt get nasty with accusations .. Couldnt have used this either ..

http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50701
Not here either but I do see shooters comments on the last 2 that are kinda strict to me ..

http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50613
So in this thread I was a bit sarcastic to start ..
By locking those previous thread and not addressing the problem you helped in my decision to go with what I did .. I tried to be nice but even after you gave me a week in the hole those 2 still found something funny with that last thread and no matter how many time I read it I see NOTHING funny ..

My whole point is all this poop was that if you dont have something positive to say then just say nothing ..
I was banned for a week because of it ..
Not fair to me and there were even a few Mods that interveined at time to say a few words along the same lines I was ... Shouldnt they have come to the same fate ..

Matt , you asked me to say it so there ya go ..
I honestly feel I was right but its your site bro ..

What ever happened to warnings anyways ..
I feel like I was used as a tool (example) ..

Oh I forgot about the posts I made that mysteriously dissappeared .. No mention of why or anything ... Just Deleted ?

Fights right and left .. Naw just 2 guys I have issues with .. 
I dont see anything close to a fight ?

If your referring to me calling Andre out well he keeps tossing in those uncalled for remarks .. Someone need to set him straight ..

I have all the respect in the world for you Matt but lets be fair ..

Of all people you should know the truth .. Didnt you see when I sent a flag about a certain post when this all got started ...
I tried the right way .. 

You see I got the guys back who gets bashed .. Dont matter who you are as long as you right ..

I never had a problem here till some started calling others liars ..

Coded post ??

You can always save face by Permanently banning me but I think you were wrong and owe me an appology ..

unless of course this :

"Ok so I'm a thread Jackin , thread messer up'er , liar , exaggerater with a "big head" ..

Jeff I appologize for messing up your thread .. I think you know where you and I stand 

Floors all yours boys ... Peace !"

Was Drama enough to justify my week in the hole .. 
If thats the case then I know something else is wrong ..
I certainly hope you read those post and didnt go on someone's word(S) ..

I never wanted to be banned or suspended and quite frankly I am ashamed of it ..


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## John81 (Apr 24, 2007)

im pretty sure this will get deleted shoulda pm'ed him instead but oh well


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

No more drama, Please...


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

*yep*



kmw21230 said:


> No more drama, Please...


I agree.


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

HT,


Guess there's no pleasing everyone. I try to read every thread....and try to answer questions I might know the answer to and provide my opinions - yeah sometimes filled with a lil sarcasm. I have met and fished with many folks, that I call friends, that I have met through Matt's board.

With that said...I see these message boards as the 21 century talk radio...so many channels and discussions to choose from...so many conversations to chime in on.

It is impossible for me to read and reply to every thread, so the threads I do reply to pretty much interests me. A few threads I jus' shake my head and wonder why the <----ENTER key was hit. Those are the threads I ignore or send a warning PM if the thread is inappropiate or jus lock it down.


I know for a fact that Matt did not envision Pier and Surf as Man-Drama.com.

My point is...if you don't have nothing positive to share or say...flip the channel. Look for a thread that you can contribute too. Don't pick a fight, don't stir the pot, turn the other cheek or even send a moderator a PM regarding your concerns or problems. Let the moderators take the hit.


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## e-mag (Jun 15, 2006)

fighting for nothing.i'm just about had it with all of you. i'm taking my son golfing!!!goodbye...and chill out.


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## hengstthomas (Mar 11, 2006)

Nserch4Drum said:


> HT,
> 
> 
> Guess there's no pleasing everyone. I try to read every thread....and try to answer questions I might know the answer to and provide my opinions - yeah sometimes filled with a lil sarcasm. I have met and fished with many folks, that I call friends, that I have met through Matt's board.
> ...


I really dont want any drama .. I just dont understand why I got the boot .. There were other folks with worse comments .
Matt said in his PM .. If you dont have anything good to say then dont say it ..
That was my whole point about people calling people liars and such .. The sneaky innuendo's and all are so uncalled for ..
I dont see how me "fighting" for exactly what he PM'ed got me the boot .
I honestly did hit that report icon on a thread at the beginning but the thread just got locked down and no mention of the those being "rude" ..
I find this site to be my favorite of them all and I respect Matt .. I just do not understand .
People who know me knwo I'm a straight arrow .. I dont sweat the small stuff and do anything for people .. I've met quite a few guys from this board who are great friends of mine and I fish with them often .
Perhaps the rule should be adjusted .. I dont know .
I do know I feel odd and like a tool here now ..


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## Centralpafish (Jul 5, 2007)

Tom, you make a lot of good points and I agree with most, if not all. Sandflea, you can only do so much and I think-just my .02-that some folks are starting to take things personally. Can't take work home or you'll burn out. Seen it happen to many good people working with the folks with mental illness. Not being a wise a$$, that's what I've done for a living for almost 40 years. You folks have lives outside of P & S, take a break, go fishin, take the kids out for ice cream, something, anything. There's larger force coming for all of us (da Point, Fort Lookout down south). We need to be united-"Can't we all just get along" Jack


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## Andre (Mar 15, 2003)

This is a April fool's joke ...right ?


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

No, it won't get deleted.

hengstthomas, you've been jumping on people right and left. Half of your posts are being reported for violations because you're always causing drama, so I finally give you *a week*--not a permanent ban--to go cool your heels and figured we'd be back to talking fishing when you showed up.

The minute your posting privileges are restored, you try to keep the drama going instead of posting a report.

On top of all this, it's pretty much common knowledge that you've started up your own board and are trying to build membership. That's cool with me--I'm pretty loose about these kinds of things--but when you're constantly trying to pick fights and cause drama on what it's taken me 9 years to build, I start to think you've got an agenda.

Dude, I'm at a loss. I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with this post, but it sure as hell ain't about fishing.


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

I am sure most of this was while I as down and laid out but as NS4D said The Mods try and catch all we can but even thus we are only human and don't see everything.

I have been known to cut post to try and calm the drama down and have come under fire for doing that because I didn't go into details why I cut them. Folks try reading hundreds of post a day and then responding to each of them that needs cutting or filtering, there ain't enough time.

My goal with P&S as a Site Mod. is to make this site a safe and enjoyable place for everyone and that inculdes KIDS and yes folks we do have kids that read P&S because it is a family fishing site so try and keep the it closer to PG rateing.

hengstthomas,,, PMs are suppose to stay private so please keep them that way.


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## fyremanjef (Feb 17, 2005)

well one thing...in the future... just a suggestion...


If a moderator feels that a post should be removed, how about leaving the post (well the frame for it) and removing the text and replacing it with "This text removed by the moderators for XXX reason". Having entire posts disappear just makes things difficult and confusing.

no onto the bigger picture... I just dont get all the drama, the bs and the bickering. It seems to have been building and building and then blew. I enjoy reading the posts and I like making my own. There are times when the bs is a bit much to sort through.

I hope all this crap ends soon!


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## fishinmama (Oct 14, 2006)

my best guess
tom was not seeking retribution here, but redemption...since he was publically censured, he only wants to be exonerated from same...
he posted the fact that he was "ashamed" of being suspended -- i believe he wants to be redeemed without any drama. pure & simple


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## SeaSalt (Apr 29, 2002)

fishinmama said:


> my best guess
> tom was not seeking retribution here, but redemption...since he was publically censured, he only wants to be exonerated from same...
> he posted the fact that he was "ashamed" of being suspended -- i believe he wants to be redeemed without any drama. pure & simple


man... I was biting my tongue but Fmama makes a good point. I think Tom was trying to redeem the situation. Maybe he should of PMed you but his intent wasn't to create more drama.

This is what internet does, lots of miscommunication and impulse decisions. I'm sure old foggies like Shooter knows the days when people talked over a nice drink. 

I think more smilies are needed in everyone's post!!


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

SeaSalt said:


> I'm sure old foggies like Shooter knows the days when people talked over a nice drink.
> 
> I think more smilies are needed in everyone's post!!


Next he will be sayn Shooter remembers the days when they grunted and clubed fish


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

So how about we let this go, right here and right now? How about letting this thread slip away and we all forget about it and get back to talking about fishing?


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## Centralpafish (Jul 5, 2007)

AGREE. Mama is right on, as usual. Good for you Sandflea. It will be good to see the guys back. Jack


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## Centralpafish (Jul 5, 2007)

Shooter, I've got one of them bats.


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## Bass_n_around (Oct 21, 2006)

*Nows My Turn*

wHO EVER OR WHAT EVER YOU MESS WITH TOM YOU MESS WITH ME AND A WHOLE LOT OF OTHERS.TOM IS A HELL OF A FRIEND AND ONE OR MAYBE THE BEST FISHERMAN BESIDES MYSELF LOL TOM,BUT HE TELLS IT LIKE IT IS LEAVE EM ALONE I THOUGHT THATS THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS SIGHT A LITTLE UMFF TO IT DONT HURT.WOULD ABOUT DRE CALLING OUT MYSELF WHICH HE DOESNT WANT TO DO ANYWAY,HE WAS CALLING PEOPLE LIARS AND THIS OTHERE CRAPP WAS HE SUSPENED OR ANYTHING NO HE WASNT WHY SHOULD TOM?WE ARE ALL ADULTS ACT LIKE IT.DRE KNOW OFFENSE WHAT YOU SAID WAS PAST.


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## Andre (Mar 15, 2003)

The lakes are loaded w/ crappies right now...The freshwater bite is red hot !!!!!..The saltwater is heating up fast 



> DRE KNOW OFFENSE WHAT YOU SAID WAS PAST.


 Cool !!! handshake ...here brother 

P.s. Swing past the fling ....All the burgers you can eat is on me !!!!!...lol


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

*facepalm*

Do you guys finally see why some posts get deleted and why some posts get locked? Here it is in its full glory: a thread with nothing censored, trolls who have been booted coming back under fake names, nothing removed, nothing cleaned up to keep the conversation focused.

All you're left with is more drama than a Fire Island glee club and a thread that may actually suck IQ points from your brain by reading it.

For the love of sweet baby Jesus, can we _actually talk about fishing_?


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## saltandsand (Nov 29, 2007)

derrickt said:


> Isn't rule #2 don't be a jerk? Way I see it the ones who made the rules are being jerks. Tom asked some simple questions and the master and his puppets couldn't answer any of them. Tom's a hellava nice guy and would do anything for anyone. Hell you see what he can do on water. So he called someone out big deal. If you can't handle it then you have no backbone. Then again I guess its real easy to block his IP so you don't have to deal with him.
> 
> Its apparent that there are many assclowns on this board who really have nothing to contribute. Many boards have there favorites and let them get away with anything and have those who post stuff only to be criticized by the same assclowns and when somebody tries to correct them somebody yells drama and the good person gets blamed for it. You guys lost a very valuable resource by banning him. He has many followers. There aren't alot of people who know how to fish like he does. To completely ignore him and ban him was completely uncalled for.


Not too far from some of my first posts. Well that was your first and WELCOME ABOARD!


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## fishinmama (Oct 14, 2006)

this thread may be better addressed in the lounge, flea, but i stand by my original post


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## saltandsand (Nov 29, 2007)

derrickt said:


> So becasue a guy asks some questions about why he was suspened you call that drama?



If at first you do not succeed....try again...

*WELCOME TO P&S!! *


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## AL_N_VB (Apr 3, 2002)

derrickt said:


> Isn't rule #2 don't be a jerk? Way I see it the ones who made the rules are being jerks. Tom asked some simple questions and the master and his puppets couldn't answer any of them. Tom's a hellava nice guy and would do anything for anyone. Hell you see what he can do on water. So he called someone out big deal. If you can't handle it then you have no backbone. Then again I guess its real easy to block his IP so you don't have to deal with him.
> 
> Its apparent that there are many derrict's on this board who really have nothing to contribute. Many boards have there favorites and let them get away with anything and have those who post stuff only to be criticized by the same derrict's and when somebody tries to correct them somebody yells drama and the good person gets blamed for it. You guys lost a very valuable resource by banning him. He has many followers. There aren't alot of people who know how to fish like he does. To completely ignore him and ban him was completely uncalled for.


9 years. That's how long this board has thrived. I've seen members come and go. One leaves and another one is right behind. But honestly, one of the easiest going boards I've been a member / supporter on. Follow the rules, don't pick any fights, don't start any drama. That simple.

A lot more posts on those other boards get axed and censored...and ya even get exiled!


Lika I said before, I woulda have never met any of my close friends that share the same hobby if not for Matt and Pier and Surf.

I am surprised there were no fishing fishing reports from SPSP today.


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## Finger_Mullet (Aug 19, 2005)

*Man drama*

I never get into any of the man drama. I read all of the man drama threads. It was funny at first but it got old real fast. 

It reminds me a elementary school all over again. 

People piss and moan about certain individuals getting special treatment. Well the way I look at it is; I do not see special treatment. I see others being more vocal about their opinions. The smart ones states their opinion and drops it. They have better sense than to go on and on and on about it. Tell what you think and then shut up.

If a report is made and you think it is crap, why is it your responsibility to point it out? Tell yourself that it is crap and don't start a 10 page man drama novel about it. 

I check P&S many times a day at work and at home. I find it annoying to sort through the crap to read about fishing.

Just my honest opinion.

Darin


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## surfchunker (Apr 10, 2006)

*well I tried*

I also mostly try to keep my mouth shut .... but the thing I can't understand is a couple guys slam a person for a report and Tom tries to defend him .... for Tom I did find his post out of the usual and I took notice (But I see much worse from others daily)... go look at the threads he starts ...... he is part of the backbone of the norhtern section of this board ... his post are to a point in ways to help everyone and giving great reports ... while others hijack threads, post nothing of value, and slam others and they get nothing ........ 

Wow I feel better now lets go fish:fishing:


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

ok people can me move on....


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## fishinmama (Oct 14, 2006)

okay -- no drama was intended - the man just wanted an explanation....
the only drama that was created was by some of the responses.....
so there ya go....

here's your sign


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## fyremanjef (Feb 17, 2005)

so yeah a 42 Inch rock from Sandy Point.


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## Hannibal (Aug 10, 2007)

This type of behavior is typical of the internet - and it's a product of our passion.

Before renewing my passion for fishing, I was heavily involved in cars (building, racing, etc) and hockey (particulary hockey fights - there is actually a cult following). With both hobbies come personalities, passion and intensity.

And like clockwork - you always saw things escalate during the "off season." The "man drama" as you say always reached a peak shortly before the "season" started. 

That's probably all that is going on here - a little bit of cabin fever before the big season kicks off and people get back to doing what brought us here in the first place.


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## Genghis (Nov 2, 2004)

Nserch4Drum said:


> Lika I said before, I woulda have never met any of my close friends that share the same hobby
> 
> I am surprised there were no fishing fishing reports from SPSP today.


I agree with the first sentiment, NS, but the second? I'll give my opinion why there are no reports here today-- it's because the mods have allowed the culture of this site to degenerate. Let me explain.

When a report is posted here, one of a few things tend to happen. First, if the report is a good one extolling success, you're called a liar by the same crew (and let's be honest, we all know who they are). If you're in the habit of regularly posting good reports, not only are you a liar but you're also a glory hound according to some. Now-- and this particular bit of nastiness has spread from the NC & VA boards, in particular-- god forbid you've told people anything useful about your day, like where you caught the fish, what rig/bait/tide/time of day was in play, you're guilty of that greatest of all NC & VA sins... wait for it... SITE BURNING! AAAAAAAAAAARGH!

Now we see some of the best fishermen on the MD board-- Tom, Lee, and a few others-- coming under regular attack from people like Andre & KMW and what's the result? Misdirected claims of man-drama leveled against the people defending themselves from the attacks of the people whom the mods seem to pay no attention to. Brilliant.

I built and run what is generally acknowledged to be the very best forum community in the fantasy baseball industry, so I'm not talking through my hat when it comes to building an on-line community. The way that P&S had done it in the old days was excellent-- respect was enforced when it needed to be, and it was done roundly, not at the whim of the mods. When the site burning BS started on your forum & VA, it needed to be crushed immediately to preserve the character and usefulness of the site that Matt had built-- and it was not done specifically because some of his Mods were the biggest perpetrators of the problem. So now I ask you-- we have a fishing "community" where you will never learn the details of where the fish are, what they're biting on, or how to get at them because if you do give that useful information you come under attack. If you post a report even without that info and tell people you caught fish and do so regularly, you come under attack. What's the point anymore?

I have made some good friends from this site, and if Matt doesn't choose to ban me for speaking the truth here I'll still be an occasional visitor in the hopes that someday the site's quality will return to the heyday of guys like MasterCaster, Anthony, FL Fisherman, Fish On, Hat80 as a member and not the guy who throws a hissy everytime someone breaks one of the arbitrary rules in the Marketplace, etc. I will say this to you, Matt-- the first step to that is getting rid of some of your mods and fixing your site's culture. Chasing off your best posters is not the way.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

If you have a problem with me send me a PM, and stop posting my name publicy. The funny thing is I've been fishing about 6 times since all this drama started. Some of you guys post one thing on this board and say something else in person when it comes to this issues. 

Also this whole thing started with two men... They made peace with the issue so why are we still talking about it. 



Genghis said:


> .
> 
> Tom, Lee, and a few others-- coming under regular attack from people like Andre & KMW and what's the result?


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Well, since we are all tossing in are .02 

Genghis, I see a grain of truth in what you say.

In Matt's defense he has been gracious enough to leave this thread alone- albeit in an attmept to prove his point that it will continue to degenerate into a worthless diatribe- and a few posts have gone in that direction.

I am sure as P&S has grown the task of keeping up with the posts and keeping everyone on an even keel becomes extremely difficult.

If someone is out of line they rarely see it that way, or ocassionally they do and try to apologize and go on but usually get "pulled" back into the same old behavior.

So people- are we going to prove Matt's point- that we need to be baby sat- or can we police ourselves a little and avoid the mods getting involved ?

It is up to all of us- and yes there will disagreements- how we handle them shows all what kind of people we are.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

Great Post! I will also add that we don't have to agree. If i post something and you don't agree with it then it's your right to say so.. It's not personal, so no one needs to make it personal. We all fish for enjoyment, and some of use think we might be great at it. Regardless of how great we think we are it doesn't mean that everyone on here is going to agree with EVERYTHING we say. Let's put the EGO's aside and just enjoy our passion. After all it's not like any of us are making money off the fish we catch, right? 




Surf Cat said:


> Well, since we are all tossing in are .02
> 
> Genghis, I see a grain of truth in what you say.
> 
> ...


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## Genghis (Nov 2, 2004)

kmw21230 said:


> If you have a problem with me send me a PM, and stop posting my name publicy. The funny thing is I've been fishing about 6 times since all this drama started. Some of you guys post one thing on this board and say something else in person when it comes to this issues.


Kinda rich, isn't it, you calling for dirty laundry to be aired only in private when you were the guy who started a good bit of this stuff, KMW? I don't know you, to the best of my knowledge I've never fished with you and you may be a great guy in person-- sometimes who we are in real life doesn't come through on a message board. Rest assured that if I ever do meet you on a beach or pier, though, I won't hold your postings against you for that reason. What I will do is say to your face exactly what I've said to your avatar on this subject if it gets brought up. People disagree, no big deal.

One of the problems here is that I think Matt, the MOds, and some others have forgotten what it is they created, either by design or by happenstance-- a community, not just a vacuum in which to throw fishing info. People here have formed friendships, both real and on-line, and people here have allowed their best and worst to come out. Most importantly, like in any community, its members feel invested in it. That's why you can't just say, "Talk about fishing and nothing else! Don't bring in the clubs you've become a part of around fishing! Don't go off topic!" You can do that with a new, small site where people haven't formed bonds and relationships, but when the site has had success-- as this place has-- then the issues have to grow larger as people talk about things outside of the topic that brought us all here n the first place. That may not always be pretty, but it's what strengthens and expands what had become a mature and self-sustaining community. The Mods have-- in what to my mind is a huge mistake-- tried to not only prevent that from happening but have tried to roll it back when it happened despite them. Not everybody in a community has to like everybody else, but everybody has to feel that their voice can be heard. Kill that and you've killed the community. 

This one, as we stand today, is on life support.


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

First of all, As a Moderator I take great offense to having being told all of this BS is my fault. What a crock of S**T!!!!!!! Every body blames the moderator when this crap starts yet no one has the testicular fortitude to open their mouth (yet they do it about everything else) to say that they can or could do a better job. Mat keeps the moderators in check also. Matt has not forgotten what he has created nor did he as well as the membership select moderators who are board Nazis like on other sites. As a matter of fact the moderators as well as Matt have been rather laid back when it comes to this crap. When posts have been deleted or edited it was because they had to be plain and simple. Yes there are a few on here that are drama queens and like to stir the pot and when they get out of hand they are delt with. As for not being allowed to "bring in the clubs", every time this has happened it has been a disaster. There is nothing wrong with being in a club, BUT......when you don't agree with what a club or member has to say members are attacked personally. There is no room this crap in any way, shape or form from anyone, club member or not. I have belonged to and do belong to several other fishing sites and by far this is the best site going. Maybe Matt as well as the mods should Nazi on everyone here, deleting posts or banning people for "spot burning", or posting things for sale on multiple boards, or not agreeing with the clique etc, etc, etc, etc, if we did this board would as well as its members would go nuts. So, since Matt and the mods are being blamed for all of this crap and drama as of late, maybe the ones who are doing the blaming should grow a set and say they want to be a moderator, doubt that will happen but that's just me.


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## shaggy (Jun 18, 2003)

Hey I MUST say, that there is NO special treatment, as I know a few mods and Matt, and have received pm's (which in my mind is best way to handle situation, not having a moderator "call" someone out publicly), and even phone calls telling me to chill out. Yeah those that know me, know I can be opinionated, sometimes mouthy, but the Mods do thier jobs to the best of thier abilities, and I assume the job aint easy.

Yeah fish with Hat, and flea, spent some time at the homes of Nsearch and Doggie (btw need to make plans with ya'll), and tell ya what, alot of what has gone on in the past year or so has kept my mouth silent and to the point where I rarely sign on, just read. 

Tom, yer reports are always enjoyable and really would like to meet up with ya when possible, let me know.

Hat, Flea and Nsearch, AI soon!

Have Jeep will travel 

Oh and Doggie I would moderate, but my mouth, opinions and various other things would get me in the stupid is as stupid does corner by Flea


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## Genghis (Nov 2, 2004)

^^^^^^^^^^^^

As I was saying about intemperate moderators... 

Grow a set? RD, that's kind of the problem with appointing moderators... you have to be very careful that they don't just fly off the handle and engage in the type of posting behavior that they're supposed to be preventing. "Moderator" or "moderation" are both rooted in showing a moderate personality and an ability to moderate oneself. I've had the problem with my own moderators, and weeding out the guys who are great for the site as members but aren't of a personality to be mods is always a delicate balancing act. My set is fine; I don't have the time nor the inclination to be a moderator here-- and I'm sure that after weighing in on what's screwing up this site I don't have the owner's request to be one, either, lol. 

Moderating is about balance and fairness-- this site has had serious issues with fairness and about as much balance as Fox News of late, and it's seriously impacting the entire community. Useful fishing reports are more scarce than harvestable Chesapeake oysters, people spend more time flapping their gums (fingers...?) about the honor and honesty of other members than in posting useful info, and we have a site owner who is obviously frustrated that the site is spinning out of control and is trying to do the right thing-- stop the spin and get things right-- but is doing it in a way that plainly isn't working. I appreciate your frustration, RD-- I really do, and know it well from my site-- because moderating is a crappy, thankless job at the best of times and nobody ever thinks you're right. I get it. That being said, what's going on here of late isn't right, and it isn't working. The users have voted with their feet and are headed elsewhere, as we've all seen.

Now, we'll see-- I suspect, sadly, that the Mods will end my days of posting here today as it seems I've pissed at least one of them off pretty badly, which is a shame-- I've always enjoyed this place. If speaking my mind on what could make it become what it used to be brings down the death penalty here, it probably was beyond saving, anyway-- fear of dissenting opinions tends to be the hallmark of a sinking ship. Hopefully that doesn't happen, as I'm not saying what I'm saying to be a dick, to cause drama, or any of the other colorful little phrases seen here lately from the mods to quash people who aren't in lockstep with their ideas and favorites-- I'm callign otu what I see as some hard truths in what is probably the vain hope that somebody acts on them here, or at least remembers them when they find themselves at whatever sites pop up to succeed this one, so as to keep this ugly drama from playing out again.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

Im the same guy either way... I'm outspoken but not a trouble maker. So when we do meet you can speak your mind and I'll speak mine. Like I said before this stuff isn't personal. As far as me starting stuff on this board? I don't think so.. 

The reason I asked you to PM me privately is bc this post is becoming corny! The people who really have problems should settle it and not allow onlookers to keep the fire going. It's not that I don't what your opinion of me to be public, because honeslty it really doesn't matter.

In the perfect world all of us would like each other, but we both know the world isn't perfect. so I'll fish beside you if you like me or not. I'm not the type to run away from the beach because I group doesn't like me.. I've seen that happen on here... believe it or not..





Genghis said:


> Kinda rich, isn't it, you calling for dirty laundry to be aired only in private when you were the guy who started a good bit of this stuff, KMW? I don't know you, to the best of my knowledge I've never fished with you and you may be a great guy in person-- sometimes who we are in real life doesn't come through on a message board. Rest assured that if I ever do meet you on a beach or pier, though, I won't hold your postings against you for that reason. What I will do is say to your face exactly what I've said to your avatar on this subject if it gets brought up. People disagree, no big deal.
> 
> One of the problems here is that I think Matt, the MOds, and some others have forgotten what it is they created, either by design or by happenstance-- a community, not just a vacuum in which to throw fishing info. People here have formed friendships, both real and on-line, and people here have allowed their best and worst to come out. Most importantly, like in any community, its members feel invested in it. That's why you can't just say, "Talk about fishing and nothing else! Don't bring in the clubs you've become a part of around fishing! Don't go off topic!" You can do that with a new, small site where people haven't formed bonds and relationships, but when the site has had success-- as this place has-- then the issues have to grow larger as people talk about things outside of the topic that brought us all here n the first place. That may not always be pretty, but it's what strengthens and expands what had become a mature and self-sustaining community. The Mods have-- in what to my mind is a huge mistake-- tried to not only prevent that from happening but have tried to roll it back when it happened despite them. Not everybody in a community has to like everybody else, but everybody has to feel that their voice can be heard. Kill that and you've killed the community.
> 
> This one, as we stand today, is on life support.


----------



## shaggy (Jun 18, 2003)

kmw21230 said:


> In the perfect world all of us would like each other, but we both know the world isn't perfect. so I'll fish beside you if you like me or not. I'm not the type to run away from the beach because I group doesn't like me.. I've seen that happen on here... believe it or not..


Well, I have never seen it happen, and I have fished beside a few I didnt really "care" for, but this may be part of the problem, some groups dont like other groups or members, hence, the situation we find ourselves in. Was a time when many of us friends held clean ups and cookouts tossed in with fishing, and me usually did less fishing than socializing.

As Dylan sang the times they are a changing, but me I prefer the old days.

Have Jeep will travel


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## Genghis (Nov 2, 2004)

shaggy said:


> Was a time when many of us friends held clean ups and cookouts tossed in with fishing, and me usually did less fishing than socializing.


Yep, some of those were great, between IRI, Choptank, SPSP, PLO, etc. Seems like an awfully long time ago.


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

Shaggy you're right on that! You've been on here much longer than me, but even I have noticed the difference in the board. In the 2 years I've been on here I have seen serveral group fights but it seems like they are becoming more common. I remember buying my fisrt conventional and not knowing how to throw it.. You met me in a field and the rest is history. I would like to see the board get back to that. there are alot of guys that showed me stuff that don't even post anymore. It's a shame.....




shaggy said:


> Well, I have never seen it happen, and I have fished beside a few I didnt really "care" for, but this may be part of the problem, some groups dont like other groups or members, hence, the situation we find ourselves in. Was a time when many of us friends held clean ups and cookouts tossed in with fishing, and me usually did less fishing than socializing.
> 
> As Dylan sang the times they are a changing, but me I prefer the old days.
> 
> Have Jeep will travel


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## Genghis (Nov 2, 2004)

kmw21230 said:


> Im the same guy either way... I'm outspoken but not a trouble maker. So when we do meet you can speak your mind and I'll speak mine. Like I said before this stuff isn't personal. As far as me starting stuff on this board? I don't think so..


Fair enough, KMW. I don't agree with the last part, but fair enough.



> In the perfect world all of us would like each other, but we both know the world isn't perfect. so I'll fish beside you if you like me or not. I'm not the type to run away from the beach because I group doesn't like me.. I've seen that happen on here... believe it or not..


I've seen that too-- in one spot particularly that comes to mind-- and it's wrong. I don't think that any of the users here are advocating that.


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

Hello Matt, 

Just thought I would pop in and say
hello. Oh well back to COD4 now.
(called in sick for a spring fever day)


----------



## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

Not flying off the handle at all. BUT...I'm not gonna sit here and be told that ALL of ths stuff is my fault. After all, you did say "moderators", so you were blaming all of us. As brother Shaggy could tell ya I'm a really laid back person. I take people at their face value, internet or in person. Genghis, I don't know you and I appreciate the fact that you realize our job here because some don't. I can only speak for ME, I do the best I can.


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## fishinmama (Oct 14, 2006)

kmw21230 said:


> The people who really have problems should settle it and not allow onlookers to keep the fire going.


i think tom would like nothing better than to be able to settle this...but it appears that he has been silenced...he should be able to speak on his own behalf, i think...JMHO


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## squalus (Sep 26, 2007)

sand flea said:


> On top of all this, it's pretty much common knowledge that you've started up your own board and are trying to build membership.


Started up his own board? - YES

Trying to *build* membership? - Absolutely *NOT*

Tom standing up for principle? Yes he does. And the thread that started this all was because he stood up for an underdog who was being singled out as a liar in a fishing report.

A fishing forum without fishing reports to be shared with members, listing information as to bait, tides, what's running, and other details??? Then where the hell is the sense of it being called a *fishing* forum?

I got no room for envy and jealousy. I'll probably make this post my last and just lurk here. This has gotten way too out of hand for me. When I first joined, I really enjoyed the banter and interaction between members and really picked up a lot of good information and pointers. To those of you who helped me out - Thanks! I hope to meet y'all someday on the beach.

To the rest of the primadonnas, dilettantes, and self-procalimed fishing "experts" who have more time on their hands to do nothing more criticize and provoke rather than sharing information and encouragement, thanks, and suggestions for the reports posted here - drop out of the fishing forum and join a bitching forum.

I'm out.


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## fyremanjef (Feb 17, 2005)

Hey Matt.. I think it's time for a break so we can all do some fishing and take a breather. How about sending EVERYONE to their room for week?


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## Teddy (May 14, 2006)

*Hahaha*

Hello Teddy! It appears that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks. Why not take a few moments to ask a question, help provide a solution or just engage in a conversation with another member in any one of our forums?


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## shaggy (Jun 18, 2003)

So how is this for real problems? Get call at work wife in a car accident rear ended rwice, so now me and girls off to Anne Arundel Hospital and check on her condition.

Peace and love.

Have Jeep will travel


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## Metallica20687 (Mar 16, 2007)

my prayers, shaggy.


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

shaggy our prayers are with you and yours. I do hope all is well!


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Metallica20687 said:


> my prayers, shaggy.





cygnus-x1 said:


> shaggy our prayers are with you and yours. I do hope all is well!


And it comes full circle and this is what the boards are about!


Prayers sent shaggy and hope all is well.


----------



## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

Prayers sent bud. Need anything, just ask.


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## SeaSalt (Apr 29, 2002)

hey Shaggy, hope everything is ok.


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## Andre (Mar 15, 2003)

I can't believe that this monster that I created is still *ALIVE* -...I take full credit for speaking my mind regardless if we agree or disagree !!!!!!!

So don't blame the mods for my trash chat please ...I want the credits for this one 

This post is 4 months, 3 ,locks and 1 suspension old and counting 

Still ROFLMAO !!!!!!!!

Shaggy I hope all is well


----------



## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

Thoughts nad prayers from Boss Dogg and myself Shaggy. Keep us posted.


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## mantriumph (Sep 12, 2006)

Andre said:


> I can't believe that this monster that I created is still *ALIVE* -...I take full credit for speaking my mind regardless if we agree or disagree !!!!!!!
> 
> So don't blame the mods for my trash chat please ...I want the credits for this one
> 
> So wheres your suspension?


----------



## Andre (Mar 15, 2003)

> [So wheres your suspension?/QUOTE]
> 
> ........Thanks again...I'm *DONE* with this thread


----------



## John81 (Apr 24, 2007)

Hope all turns out ok shaggy


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## ffemtreed (Mar 29, 2007)

Hope everything is well Shaggy!


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## Centralpafish (Jul 5, 2007)

Shaggy, I'm out of this but I hope all is well with family. Please post a report. Prayer sent for all friends of P & S. 

This is important folks; the other [email protected] ain't nothin'. Knock it off and think about someone else! Just my .02, Jack


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## Kwesi W. (Apr 14, 2006)

Shaggy, I pray that all is well...


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## French (Jun 18, 2005)

hate to hear that Shaggy. Thoughts are with you wishing for a speedy recovery for your missues.


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## fyremanjef (Feb 17, 2005)

Hey Bob, I hope the wife and family are ok. Here's to a speedy recovery.

Jeff


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## Centralpafish (Jul 5, 2007)

Like I said before it's a shame, damn shame. I'll still be down at SPSP on the 12th. See ya then Eugene, Shooter and Catman32. I'm out. I guess my loss is your gain. Last post on this thread. Jack


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## cocoflea (Aug 1, 2002)

hope all is well Shaggy praying for you


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## saltandsand (Nov 29, 2007)

I don't know Shaggy well, we passed a couple PMs, hope things work out.

As for the rest of this thread....one question....how long will it last? (Answer: As long as it must.)


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## Teddy (May 14, 2006)

*A Voice That Needs To Be Heard!*

Matt , I am glad you decided to leave this thread .. I dont find a problem with the fact that you addressed me in a way which make one think I can respond when you knew I was unable (your first post) .. Why would you ask me questions knowing I can not respond ..
I assure you I dont want to create "drama"
Like I stated and you can see by reading those thread I tried to covey the exact same message you relayed in your PM ..
"If you have nothing nice to say then say nothing"

I thought by bringing this to light it would enlighten us as to why I was banned and to keep other from making a simular mistake .

My site and recruiting members has nothing to do with this ..

How you run this site is up to you .. I just think the rules need to be expanded upon if you are going to ban folks for other reasons ..
Example : You say my post were getting flagged .. Why no PM about that with a warning ?

KMW .. I got no problems with you and it sounds like your catching on to what I was getting at .. I meant you no disrespect but calling people BOZO's and liars and smart remarks like "too funny" and the like are just unecessary .. If you dont believe then just turn away and dont respond .. Simple ( Saltandsand and I had a diagreement and we didnt call each other liars and I respect that and I believe he does too)

I stand by everything I said with the exception of my outburst against Andre for which I am sorry and ashamed .. I took it to heart and fishing being my one true passion I lost me head ..

Bottom line is .. Lets not soil someones posts and name unless you know for a fact ... thats its bull ... Even then caution should be used with how we confront them ..

If me being a tool is gonna help then just leave this the way it is .. I just hope it helps .."


Thomas Hengst 






Shaggy I hope all is well..........



When you are wrong you got to stand up to the plate and apologize! So what are you waiting for Sand Flea? You owe Tom an apology for your misguided understanding of the facts! Tom deserves no less than what you yourself expect from the members here,
GET ER DONE!


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## shaggy (Jun 18, 2003)

Dang hospitals are real boring places. Anyhow, some cuts, bumps and bruises, and a sore body, but x-rays all looked good. Womans got some vicatin, and man her parents didn't teach her how to share. She be outta work for a bit, but nothing major.

Three vehicles involved, four people taken by ambulance and one medivaced out, so say some prayers for them also guys.

Vans a total loss but replaceable. Other than that, I gotta get fishing soon.

Have Jeep will travel


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## toejam (Jan 28, 2005)

Shaggy ,, I am glad to hear that things are not as bad as they could have been. My prayers and thoughts are with your family... 

Ths Internet is wonderful thingy but it can be addictive to some people,, and I hope you take this in the constructive mannner that I intented it to be... but somebody that recieves word that their wife has been in a bad accident and they take the time to make a post on a fishing forum, may have a problem.


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## saltandsand (Nov 29, 2007)

Teddy said:


> ... ( Saltandsand and I had a diagreement and we didnt call each other liars and I respect that and I believe he does too)


*Yep, and that's a wrap*. 

IMO it's time to put an end to all the nanny nanny boo boo and agree to respectfully disagree. And let's not hear any more crying from those who snivel about not being able to speak their mind. This board is quite permissive with allowing differing view points. 

Once again I say *Thanks Sand Flea for making this place what it is and for putting up with what sometimes looks like a mutiny.*


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## TunaFish (Aug 16, 2001)

*From Tom:*

Before it all started ..
Below is a post that is from the very beginning ..
http://www.pierandsurf.com/forum/sh...ead.php?t=48723
"I dont know about the spot you guys are referring to but I do know that like you said fresh and tidal are different .. I lived in Oxon Hill (born in Bainbridge) and fished the Potomac too , Tidal water holds larger schools of Crappie and if you are there at the right times all the fish are comparable in size ... meaning you can get into a school of 1 pounders where as in Freshwater you'll get more mixed sizes ... I spent a lot more time targetting Crappie than any other fish . In the spring and fall you shouldnt be throwing a 1" lure and 2" will get mixed results to ... try 3 and 4 inch lures . I have done exactly what Lee said he did many times and NOT just in farm ponds or private ponds ... The majority of times its brackish tidal waters . Since we dont have Reserviors we dont have deep water access here in Delaware.
SO if seeing is believing then be ready as I am making it a point to show you how its done here in Delaware ... Get some waders and be ready come April and May ..
I had a guy pretty much call me a liar a few years ago and when it was time to prove it ... He didnt answer my e-mail ... Dont let that be you ...
Thats it for me on Crappie till then ...
Do you believe I caught over 50 1 pound yellows in a day ?
Same deal be ready if you want to see how its done ..
There will always be those who can catch like no other and although I will show you does not in any way mean you'll do the same but atleast you can watch .
Serious Offer Andre"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As you see it started fine ..
I just find it hard to swallow that any of my posts were flagged ..
I cant find the offensive ones ..
In all of this it was between Andre and I ..
KMW even commented on Andre's post but later in another came to Andre's aid ..
Even KMW and I didnt fight ..
Left and right was exaggerated .
Constantly trying to pick fights ... Come on Matt ..
What are you reading ?
With all the info still there I cant believe that you have turned a blind eye to what I am saying here ..

How can you ban me for sticking up for exactly what you ask us all to do ..
"If you cant say something nice then dont say it"

Even if I was loud with Andre it still didnt call for me to be a Pawn .. 

You stated these things were going on and half my posts .. "Half of them ? " were reported ..
Another exaggeration ..

I am truely sorry it has come to this but I feel I was fair .

Please go back and read some threads ..

In a few threads I just agreed with a Moderators posts and on a few a Moderator agrred with mine (more than 1 Mod)

In the end if you wont be fair I kindly ask that you remove my account here as I want no black marks following my name .."

Respectfully,
Thomas Hengst


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

I get along with most people around here
and I figure it is time to throw my 
.02 in the mix.

I respect TH and we have sent PM's back 
and fourth several times. I have to agree
100% with SF on this. I read ALL the
threads in question and it definitely seems
to me that TH was pissed off and 
was looking for a fight. You also have a 
lot of folks who are using this issue to 
create mischief. We all know who they are.

Talapia.


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## shaggy (Jun 18, 2003)

toejam said:


> but somebody that recieves word that their wife has been in a bad accident and they take the time to make a post on a fishing forum, may have a problem.


Well, as the accident happened as she was turning into our driveway, and as there was no way to get out of driveway due to fire trucks, police cars and about 2 miles of back up each way, and as the paramedics told me she seemed okay, where she was headed and all, I had some time before it was cleared enough to leave. When I was able to get out of the driveway, the state trooper came and knocked on the door, held up traffic so we could be on our way. Too bad I didnt have my emergency mini-helicopter in the yard, could have left 25 minutes or so earlier.

But since I lent that to a friend, I left as soon as possible.


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

shaggy said:


> Well, as the accident happened as she was turning into our driveway, and as there was no way to get out of driveway due to fire trucks, police cars and about 2 miles of back up each way, and as the paramedics told me she seemed okay, where she was headed and all, I had some time before it was cleared enough to leave. When I was able to get out of the driveway, the state trooper came and knocked on the door, held up traffic so we could be on our way. Too bad I didnt have my emergency mini-helicopter in the yard, could have left 25 minutes or so earlier.
> 
> But since I lent that to a friend, I left as soon as possible.



Shaggy, please excuse me for not 
mentioning the fact that I am glad your
wife is doing ok. Take care bud.


----------



## saltandsand (Nov 29, 2007)

*We interrupt this regularly scheduled man-drama to bring you breaking news....*

This weeks crime mystery has been solved. The cereal killer has been found. We've just learned from the Federal Bureau of Ingots that Cracker Jack has been apprehended as the culprit who is known to have started the mutiny against Cap'n Crunch, snare-trapped and roasted the Trix Rabbit, and stole the gold from the Lucky Charms Dwarf. He's suspected of being the same cereal murderer who tore the stripes off of Tony the Tiger thereby killing him and for snatching the beak of Toucan Sam leaving him in a coma.

Cracker Jack is also suspected of cracking the code, hacking the castle's Alpha-Bits computer and stealing all the cocoa secrets from Count Chocula.

*Bleep...and now back to your regularly scheduled man-drama...we apologize for the interruption*


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## NTKG (Aug 16, 2003)

bob,

glad to hear things are ok with the missus. send ya'll my best.


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## saltandsand (Nov 29, 2007)

Shaggy... hope all is as best as can be. I pray you have the support of family and friends to help you through. Take care.


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## Fishbreath (Nov 11, 2004)

*Prayers sent for Mrs. Shaggy*

Bob, 

So sorry to hear about the accident but also glad to hear she is feeling better and not too much worse for wear. Thank God. Please wish her a speedy recovery from me and LittleFish.


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## fishhead (Oct 18, 2004)

Shaggy ... glad to hear things aren't too bad now ... they surely could have been worse.

Man ... stepped away from P&S for a few days and all he!! breaks loose


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Bob, glad to hear it wasn't more serious.


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## fishinmama (Oct 14, 2006)

*You can tune a piano, but you can't tune a thread...*

.....you can never predict what direction a thread may take & i don't think this is the tack Tom wanted to see this go in...

I read all the posts referenced too, & feel that Tom was trying to defuse the situation, not looking for a fight, but trying to keep peace with other fisherman involved...and as i said before i believe his post that he referred to as sarcastic, was one in made in frustration to ppl not getting his point.

In THIS thread he merely wanted an answer to why he was banned for the week...he never envisioned the evolution or de-evolution of this thread as it grew. nor did he wish for it.
and now he can't speak for himself. [email protected] shame.

none of us are indispensable...in life, or on the boards -- the world & the forum will continue regardless, however, if this forum loses Tom it will lose a major contributor & tons of fishing knowledge...i am sorry to see it happen.

my .02 -- JMHO


Shaggy - i am very glad to hear that your wife is going to be okay.


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## dirtyhandslopez (Nov 17, 2006)

Definately going to miss Tom's reports, pictures and advice. Good luck Tom. Sorry to hear 'bout the accident Shaggy. Glad all is wellish.


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## TunaFish (Aug 16, 2001)

fishinmama said:


> .....you can never predict what direction a thread may take & i don't think this is the tack Tom wanted to see this go in...
> 
> I read all the posts referenced too, & feel that Tom was trying to defuse the situation, not looking for a fight, but trying to keep peace with other fisherman involved...and as i said before i believe his post that he referred to as sarcastic, was one in made in frustration to ppl not getting his point.
> 
> ...


Mama,

I couldn't have said it any better. Trust me, I'm not pleading for Flea to reinstate Tom's account. Sites like here and anywhere else need more fish posters like him than he needed fishing sites. In the past month, more posts got deleted and members banned than I can remember for over 6 yrs that I've been a member. This type of short term solution (censorship dare I say?) is not working and has driven quite a few members away. 

I don't want to see P&S sink more than it has now and my only response to this is just pay special attention to Mama's post because that makes the most sense to me thus far. 
-------------------------------------------

Shaggy, I'm glad to hear your wife is fine. That's great news indeed!!!!


----------



## fyremanjef (Feb 17, 2005)

shaggy said:


> Dang hospitals are real boring places. Anyhow, some cuts, bumps and bruises, and a sore body, but x-rays all looked good. Womans got some vicatin, and man her parents didn't teach her how to share. She be outta work for a bit, but nothing major.
> 
> Three vehicles involved, four people taken by ambulance and one medivaced out, so say some prayers for them also guys.
> 
> ...


Shaggy,

Glad to hear that the family is ok. As far as fishing, I heard a AI flounder asking about you just the other week.


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## squalus (Sep 26, 2007)

*This isn't a fishing forum anymore*

DAMMIT – ENOUGH ALREADY! 

Seems to me that flea and hat80 ought to ban themselves for violating TOS Rule # 2 - DON'T BE A JERK. 

Sand flea, if this is giving you the finger then I’m stepping up for my ban…

Apologies are still owed to fishbait, fingersandclaws, huntsman, Tom, and others for what has happened in the past few weeks. These guys ended up as collateral damage due to someone’s personal agenda here.

And speaking of JERKS - why the HELL is saltandsand still posting on this board?

I haven’t been on this board a long time, but I noticed that this heavy handed idiotic nonsense, defamation, racial slurring and innuendo really took off once this little piss-ant came on board.

He still gets away with it - no time outs for him???

Oh right - I keep forgetting - he trashes people here, but then posts in huge bold letters of his gratitude to flea for having this board available. For WHAT? His own personal trolling ground? No wonder the jackoff was banned from SOL!

Funny, too, how shortly after he appeared, a certain moderator who apparently had “inside information” posted publicly back to fishbait that “things are going to change around here - and soon” referring to the planned dissolution of the WBB. I’m sure nobody will find that post, but it was there for anyone to read at one point in time.

I’ve come to the conclusion that saltandsand is one of three things…


A complete idiot-troll who gets off on starting up something controversial and sitting back to watch the fallout

A personal friend of flea’s, thus allowing him carte blanche when posting on this board

Sand flea himself using an alias to troll the board and target certain groups or individuals that he doesn’t want around, provoking a response and justifying his actions to get rid of members he doesn’t like.
My opinions don’t really matter and at this point I really don’t care anymore. A hundred years from now, who will give a shit?

To the other trolls and pot-stirrers on here (and they’re probably so dense they don’t even know who they are) – thanks for your efforts. You’ve succeeded in bringing this site to a new low.

I’m outta here. Get rid of my account. I don’t even want to be associated with this site.


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## fishhead (Oct 18, 2004)

Bring on the cows!


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## shaggy (Jun 18, 2003)

squalus said:


> I’ve come to the conclusion that saltandsand is one of three things…
> 
> 
> A complete idiot-troll who gets off on starting up something controversial and sitting back to watch the fallout
> ...


Like I said, I know many mods and Matt, there IS NO preferential treatment to my knowledge. Enough already. Seen the groups actually like some of the members, but it is what it is, imma for the shut up and fish already point of view. Clyde Matt and the rest have a lot to deal with, without a doubt, and don't think they are singling anyone out.

As for opting out, that is yer choice, all ya gotta do is leave and not return, and in no way am I saying you should, but no reason for Flea to do that, even if ya asked.

Lets all breath deep, and maybe in a few days group hug.


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## Talapia (Apr 27, 2003)

Shaggy, I see that #3 MD is playing #9 Navy
in Lax this Friday. Should be a great game!

I got to go with MD on this one.


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## saltandsand (Nov 29, 2007)

Thanks Shaggy.


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## emanuel (Apr 2, 2002)

Wow, spring can't come soon enough around here.

Maybe some of you need to move to Florida, 98% man-drama free.

BTW, if you think there is drama, spotburning and nastiness here, I can show you some boards that will make you appreciate what's going on here. I'm not just saying that because I am a mod here, but also because I am a member on some other sites and I can tell you I know preferential treatment when I see it. 

I'm actually dealing with a case of that right now where I have someone harrassing me on that board and the mod refuses to do anything about it because he is friends and fishing pals with the person at fault.


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## shaggy (Jun 18, 2003)

Talapia said:


> Shaggy, I see that #3 MD is playing #9 Navy
> in Lax this Friday. Should be a great game!
> 
> I got to go with MD on this one.


Go NAVY! But I love Maryland lacrosse in general. Towson is sucking this year though.


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## shaggy (Jun 18, 2003)

saltandsand said:


> Thanks Shaggy.


No problem, lets get together and fish salty


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

*That's great*



fishhead said:


> Bring on the cows!


HA HA HA HA HA HA...............


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## shaggy (Jun 18, 2003)

Yup, they shoot horses, and if not sooner or later even horsies gotta sleep, so let's let go of this thread, not delete, not lock down, just lets say night night thread.


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## John81 (Apr 24, 2007)

All i got to say is if you don't like this board/forum or how its run go somewhere else...
thats my .02cents


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## fyremanjef (Feb 17, 2005)

Talapia said:


> Shaggy, I see that #3 MD is playing #9 Navy
> in Lax this Friday. Should be a great game!
> 
> I got to go with MD on this one.


Bet your a$$ MD..

LET'S GO T E R P S!!!!


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## Hannibal (Aug 10, 2007)

I already made my post about typical internet forum behavior and my experience with other boards but another thought came to mind.

In the past, if we (I was/am a moderator of other sites) felt it was necessary to ban someone - we considered the "test question" to be whether we would be OK with losing their contributions.

More or less - if you decide to ban someone, you should remove/delete all their posts. As a mod/admin, if you feel you can do without the person, you feel you can do without their contributions - past and present. As the banned party, the last thing you really want is your contributions being a part of a group who apparently no longer wants you.

Now, if you are willing to ban someone, yet chose to keep their contributions/posting - well, that sorta says something. 

Just my .02.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

I say that if you are gonna be a mod on this site you actually have to fish.

That rules out one dosen't it...opcorn:


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

emanuel said:


> Maybe some of you need to move to Florida, 98% man-drama free.


That's because you've done such an outstanding job of getting rid of all the bad guys in the Florida forum. 



emanuel said:


> I can tell you I know preferential treatment when I see it.


Amen. Truer words were never spoken.


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

Cdog said:


> I say that if you are gonna be a mod on this site you actually have to fish.
> 
> That rules out one dosen't it...opcorn:


You talkin' about NS4D or Shooter?


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## KT_UMCP (Oct 11, 2005)

I have never met Tom before, but I can say this. I have followed his post and am amazed at his perseverance and knowledge when it comes to fishing. The man fishes in all kind of weather and at all times of the day and night. He has a canoe that leaks from time to time, but still is out there fishing at the same time bailing water from it. When the salt season is slow he turns to fresh water I have been fishing since I was a kid like most here on this board and you can only give respect to someone who really has a passion for the "art" of fishing. He helps anyone who is in need and seems to be very generous in sharing his catch as well as his bait and I bet he is the type that will literally give you the shirt off his back. After all is done from a very tiresome fishing adventure he manages to fill us in with "all" the details, bait of choice, setup, location, he doesn't skip any details and he provides us with pictures. It takes some passion to be able to fish as hardcore as he does and still have the energy to come home ans sit in front of a computer and write to us about his adventure. That my friends is true passion and selflessnes.

I can draw a visual of this man and we all know it is not easy to do some of the things that he does when it comes to fishing. He is truly a hardcore fisherman with an immense passion for the "art" of fishing and is always sharing with us his passion. He has brought so much knowledge to this site and I know that you guys as well look forward to reading his posts, why? because you know it is going to be full of information and very informative oh and all those pics . 

I believe many will agree with me when I say this. Tom has been the most informative poster on this site. We are going to miss all those nights and all those pics and all the great reads from this man.


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## steve grossman (Feb 1, 2008)

*Put Everyone In Timeout******

Why cant everyone chill out, drink a beer, somewhere close, and like ADULTS, talk all this out. One thing is sure, those who have the GOLD, rule the nest. But, one side does not make it work. SOLUTIONS are needed here. no morea complaints. Will a half a dozen of you guys who are a hell of lot smarter then me, please offer solutions.

When I joined not long ago, I was told how much fun this site was, and that I could learn alot, and maybe teach a little. But something in the air is making people crazy.

Solutions are needed, please ladies and gentlemen.


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## John81 (Apr 24, 2007)

KT_UMCP said:


> I have never met Tom before, but I can say this. I have followed his post and am amazed at his perseverance and knowledge when it comes to fishing. The man fishes in all kind of weather and at all times of the day and night. He has a canoe that leaks from time to time, but still is out there fishing at the same time bailing water from it. When the salt season is slow he turns to fresh water I have been fishing since I was a kid like most here on this board and you can only give respect to someone who really has a passion for the "art" of fishing. He helps anyone who is in need and seems to be very generous in sharing his catch as well as his bait and I bet he is the type that will literally give you the shirt off his back. After all is done from a very tiresome fishing adventure he manages to fill us in with "all" the details, bait of choice, setup, location, he doesn't skip any details and he provides us with pictures. It takes some passion to be able to fish as hardcore as he does and still have the energy to come home ans sit in front of a computer and write to us about his adventure. That my friends is true passion and selflessnes.
> 
> I can draw a visual of this man and we all know it is not easy to do some of the things that he does when it comes to fishing. He is truly a hardcore fisherman with an immense passion for the "art" of fishing and is always sharing with us his passion. He has brought so much knowledge to this site and I know that you guys as well look forward to reading his posts, why? because you know it is going to be full of information and very informative oh and all those pics .
> 
> I believe many will agree with me when I say this. Tom has been the most informative poster on this site. We are going to miss all those nights and all those pics and all the great reads from this man.



Last time i checked this site wasnt named canoe and surf? or pier and canoe?


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

steve grossman said:


> Solutions are needed, please ladies and gentlemen.


It's extremely difficult to formulate a "solution" until after the "problem" has been defined. 

So the fact that the managment has chosen to let this thread continue is a good thing, because they are allowing people to attempt to define the problem as they see it.


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## drag-on (Mar 5, 2005)

*here is a solution...*

stop typing b.s and go catch one of these.....









just my 2 cents.....


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## Fireline20 (Oct 2, 2007)

Gonna way in here with my 2 cents.

I have been banned for 2 weeks before by Sandflea because I jumped a certain vocal someone on the SC forum. 

I was wrong to do so(,,,even if my intentions were in the right place)

I took my punishment and now I a m back. This is a fishing information site, owned and oped by Sandflea and I support him 100%/


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## Fireline20 (Oct 2, 2007)

Oh;

And thanks to all you guys who have helped me become a better fisherman.:fishing:


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## terpfan (May 30, 2002)

John81 said:


> Last time i checked this site wasnt named canoe and surf? or pier and canoe?


you are so clever.


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## oldsalt (May 6, 2003)

Going back through these posts and checking the time of day, I think most of you should be giving your Co. a little more time and a little less pier and surf time.


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## John81 (Apr 24, 2007)

oldsalt said:


> Going back through these posts and checking the time of day, I think most of you should be giving your Co. a little more time and a little less pier and surf time.


lol getting paid to look at internet stuff is the best


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## FINNBAR (Jun 15, 2007)

On the surface this thread may seem a fair and equitable one, providing an outlet to air differing opinions and grievances. Yet hidden from most, is the fact all opposed to managements' position have been muted via banning. Silencing views which may not agree with ones own is the last attempt to stabilize a crumbling empire. Obvious, to those that care to lift their head from the beneath the sand, if you chose the wrong side you will be ostracized from this community forevermore!

Canoe and surf...pier and canoe...about as brilliant as kyak and surf or pier and kyak(so aptly posted and fittingly mispelled by one of our illustrious moderators) why did that post mysteriously disappeared? 

Talk solace in the fact this board will be left in the capable hand of the likes of John81, Andre, SaS and those Mods blindly following, goose stepping in cadence, fearful of standing on their own to feet

In summary, if a guy can flat out out fish you, yet still take the time to teach and post detailed, time consuming posts because of his love for the game, check your jealousy in the closet and LISTEN for a change!

_Thats all folks_


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## John81 (Apr 24, 2007)

FINNBAR said:


> On the surface this thread may seem a fair and equitable one, providing an outlet to air differing opinions and grievances. Yet hidden from most, is the fact all opposed to managements' position have been muted via banning. Silencing views which may not agree with ones own is the last attempt to stabilize a crumbling empire. Obvious, to those that care to lift their head from the beneath the sand, if you chose the wrong side you will be ostracized from this community forevermore!
> 
> Canoe and surf...pier and canoe...about as brilliant as kyak and surf or pier and kyak(so aptly posted and fittingly mispelled by one of our illustrious moderators) why did that post mysteriously disappeared?
> 
> ...




Standing on our own feet? Im not the one crying and need other people to back my words or opinions. If my words get me in trouble then they do i won't complain and whine about them. 
I have nothing to be jealous of, i love every aspect of my life and you can't tell me any different


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## SeaSalt (Apr 29, 2002)

John81 said:


> Standing on our own feet? Im not the one crying and need other people to back my words or opinions. If my words get me in trouble then they do i won't complain and whine about them.
> I have nothing to be jealous of, i love every aspect of my life and you can't tell me any different


Hey John81, in all fairness to HT, he can't respond to any of the remarks here because he got canned right after the post was started. 

I'm guessing this is the post where we get to find out what people's true colors are. There will be definite fallout and consequences from this post. 

To be honest, I'm somewhat torn to see what is happening here. I have been a supporter since 2002 and have had very fond memories of the place. But I have started noticing things that are troubling.

I agree with what Ghengis said. To have a mentality of a fishing forum being a database of information is tragic and totally mistaken. Eventually, it will become a community where relationships will form. People will invest their time, effort and money into the site. Will it be a healthy and nurturing community? It will depend on the powers that run it. 

I hate seeing all this in-fighting. Its ugly and it will have its consequences.


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## cocoflea (Aug 1, 2002)

Ok That's It I Have Had Enough I've Tried To Stay On The Side And Just Hope That Cooler Heads Prevail But This Is Getting Worst So I'm Not Saying Who Is Right Or Wrong I'm Say This Needs To Stop People Are Getting Hurt And Freindships Are Being Lost Everyone Take The Time To Look At Damage That Has Been Done And You Will See That I'm Am Right And This Has To Stop!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Otter (Jun 18, 2004)




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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

Alright, I think everyone has had their opportunity to leave a comment if they wanted.

I'd suggest getting out and doing some fishing. I did today and I have to admit it's a lot more fun than sitting on the computer.


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