# Long Distance...Whatever rig.



## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

I have borrowed an idea from JAM's long distance drum rig, scaled it down to 40# mono, a 2/0 Eagle Claw circle, and a 2 oz......











There can be no doubt that this will maximize distance, and on the flaaaaaaaat beaches I frequent, it can be a long way to the fish.

This could also be useful on the JaxPier, when the guy with the longest cast, getting away from the crowd of tourist rigs, is the guy who gets the bite.

I sure can't see a hungry whiting being afraid of the sinker...


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

*Rr*

only one sugestion, lose the bead- even though it will be less the bead contributes a bit to the helicopter effect- may or not make a big difference, but I would try one with and without the bead to find out for sure.

Gonna try the rig out myself- will report back my results first chance I get.


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

Here's another idea....










Why not leave the hook free to slide up the rig, as the lead sinks faster than the bait. This should seperate the bait from the sinker some. 

The beads offer some "component separation" and surely won't helicopter near as much as the bait itself...Without them, I see more potential for tangling. Worth experimentation, though.


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

Where did you find that bead?


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

I've been using this rig for the past 2 months or so and I like the component separation with the bead. Now I use a small round faceted bead so my bead is 1/2 the size of that glow bead. But it works great. It really helps with the distance especially with an easterly wind.


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## ishootback (Oct 2, 2005)

I have been using a very similar setup with good success. I use diferent beads though - just large enough to keep the hook seperated from the swivel.

I even tried some small floating beads to move the bait more. They worked great on croakers.


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## KT_UMCP (Oct 11, 2005)

All and any types of beeds can be found much much cheaper at Micheals.


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

Digger said:


> Where did you find that bead?


Crafts section at Wal-Mart...About 5 bucks got me a lifetime supply of assorted colors, shapes, etc. That small one is my favorite, but you gotta pick 'em out of the mix.  

Of course I DIDN'T step foot in there, I put the wife up to buying them... 

Got a bag of 400 red faceted 8mm beads for $1.00...same beads in the "fishing" section were in a 10 pack for 88 cents...


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## cygnus-x1 (Oct 12, 2005)

Railroader said:


> Crafts section at Wal-Mart...About 5 bucks got me a lifetime supply of assorted colors, shapes, etc. That small one is my favorite, but you gotta pick 'em out of the mix.
> 
> Of course I DIDN'T step foot in there, I put the wife up to buying them...
> 
> Got a bag of 400 red faceted 8mm beads for $1.00...same beads in the "fishing" section were in a 10 pack for 88 cents...


Yep ... Wally World Rules   

I am still working through a collection of beads I bought from there 7 years ago


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

Railroader said:


> Here's another idea....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would think with a big chunk of bait, the bait would slide up the line due to air resistance on the cast. Might want to attach the hook with a snap or mcmahon swivel, but I would guess that might make it slide all the way up the leader on the toss. I would think if the bait stays near the weight that weight would be detected by the fish on initial pick up.

10 points for ingenuity tho


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

Surf Cat said:


> I would think with a big chunk of bait, the bait would slide up the line due to air resistance on the cast.


On a second look, you are absolutely right SC...(insert embarrased smilie)....I sure didn't think that one thru very well!!! DUH-UUUH   

Back to the drawing board!


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## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

Whoa, that's an awesome idea. This is the kind of stuff I like to see on P&S...people pushing the envelope, thinking up cool stuff, new applications of tried technologies. Good job, Railroader.  

I've got another thought...why not a 4" mono loop on the swivel in place of the snap? .The swivel will still slide tight up against the hook during the cast and the hook still drafts the sinker, but in the water, it gives the hook and sinker a couple more inches of separation. Basically, like an inverse fishfinder with the sinker on the short leader instead of the hook.


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## VICIII (Apr 8, 2005)

AtlantaKing said:


> Whoa, that's an awesome idea. This is the kind of stuff I like to see on P&S...people pushing the envelope, thinking up cool stuff, new applications of tried technologies. Good job, Railroader.
> 
> I've got another thought...why not a 4" mono loop on the swivel in place of the snap? .The swivel will still slide tight up against the hook during the cast and the hook still drafts the sinker, but in the water, it gives the hook and sinker a couple more inches of separation. Basically, like an inverse fishfinder with the sinker on the short leader instead of the hook.


I actually do this for shark.. with metal of course.. Seems to work just fine. I use a pyramid sinker and it does not get tangled with the hook or bait. It just slides up when landed and heads down a bit with casted but with out problem. The bait for this is about as heavy as the sinker so it may make it easier. If you have a small piece of bait on the end that is lighter than the sinker and with mono it still should be just fine.


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## Shooter (Nov 14, 2004)

As Jam stated that there is called a NICK rig for the guy that came up with that puppy *and he builds a hail of a fishnpole too* OK so now i am sitting here getting ready to build a few myself and try them this weekend on some of them Striped ones. Lord knows I can use any and all help with distance


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## Big Worm (Mar 29, 2005)

RR, I have actually tried that last rig a long time ago and it will "float" the bait up to the top with a good current or tide. Fished it with mullet or bunker couple time trying it out but it would always wind up surfing at the top of the water.

I am going to try and tie me up a couple of dem other rig that Jam, DD, and dem other guys been talking about though. I think the other thing they said about dem was the biter would take the whole mess? with one chew?


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## TreednNC (Jul 1, 2005)

Potential problem I see with Rig #2 is hook setting ability. I think it could work with a circle hook in light weight applications. Not sure I like the line pulling and piviting through the eye of the hook with the wieght on the other end. A for effort otherwise


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## FishinAddiction (May 9, 2006)

if anyone's ever seen Seapuppy's drum rigs you would think they would never work.....if you ever TRIED them,we wouldn't be having this conversation....I'll never use another rig when fishing for drum/cobia/stripers/etc


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## bstarling (Apr 24, 2005)

*Seapuppy's drum rigs*



FishinAddiction said:


> if anyone's ever seen Seapuppy's drum rigs you would think they would never work.....if you ever TRIED them,we wouldn't be having this conversation....I'll never use another rig when fishing for drum/cobia/stripers/etc


Give us a link or a photo/sketch.

Thanks, Bill


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## surfcast (Nov 7, 2006)

I was thinking that myself...what does his rigs look like? Since we are having this conversation


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## FishinAddiction (May 9, 2006)

you might be able to find them on FishTradewinds.com....run a search on the message board....


but they are really weird....as I recall from August when he and I went fishing.....they are #2 bronze J-hooks I believe....two of them tied on the leader about 6-8 inches apart AT MOST...with very light weight like 4-5 ounces at the end of the leader....although you can use more weight....he just enough to get a decent cast because the lighter the weight, the more it moves around and he likes that


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*The Problem with rig #2*

Is that in flight your bait will want to slide down you line causing drag and resistance.. Loose the bead it will cost ya distance as well.. It gives the hook something to rotate on ... Just keep checking where the hook and weight meet for abrasion... With rig # 2 I would be concerned with the hook set as well...I was gonna suggest ruduceing it to suit your size, but grief comes with any suggestion from me.. JAM


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

I'm giving up on #2....Due to it sliding both in flight, and once it's down, I'm told the bait will wash back up to the surface....Makes good sense. 

#1 however, is a good looking rig, should fly REAL WELL, and I'm gonna try it out for both small and large applications.

I've already used a very similar rig this past fall on the Big Reds, and it worked well. 

Thanks for the idea, JAM, looked like a winner to me, right off.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*Anytime Man*

contrary to popular belief it is my JOB to put people on fish.. I don't ever invent anything just pass along what I have learned.. I knew that would be a long distance whiting killer... Good luck and coolers full of fish for ya .. JAM


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## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

*Number 2*

Ive tried that before as well....It really sucks when your trying to throw a whole finger mullet or small menhaden. They tend to create so much drag that the bait will get half the distance of the bait....JAM, your always insightful bro, I like reading your posts, keep up the great work!


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

JAM said:


> Is that in flight your bait will want to slide down you line causing drag and resistance.. Loose the bead it will cost ya distance as well.. It gives the hook something to rotate on ... Just keep checking where the hook and weight meet for abrasion... With rig # 2 I would be concerned with the hook set as well...I was gonna suggest ruduceing it to suit your size, but grief comes with any suggestion from me.. JAM


 Not much "greef" here my friend,just a difference of opinion.. I've found the bead to keep the line straight between the swivel with sinker attached and the snelled hook.. I've found that after several cast the leader 120 ande has a tendency to curl right there at the edge of the hook ring.. Not sure if it makes any difference in the strength of the line,but I just don't like it...  As far as the bead causing helecoptering,haven't had that problem with the bead or without.. Many times helecoptering means reel is too slow.. This was taught to me by one a dem twins that you and I know...


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*I would think with rig #1*

with the sinker, sliding on the leader, that the bait and sinker would stay too close to each other in the water. After the cast, after you reel in the slack, the bait and sinker are really close to each other, ruff surf and sinker and bait could get covered up with sand.


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## barty b (Dec 31, 2004)

I agree. Also w/ the bait floating around you lose bite detection. lemme explain the dynamics at work here. With a standard double dropper loop rig, you have tension from both ends,so when the fish takes the bait he gets the hook no matter which way he pulls. Assuming you are using circle hooks. With this rig ,IF, the bait is floating freely and mr. whiting comes along and eats it, there is no immediate tension in ANY direction,thus he has a chance to spit it out,which he most likely will. This rig works for fish like shark and drum that totally eat the bait and continue moving,but not so good for the hit and run type nibblers like whiting. MAY work for pompano when using a small sand flea or cut clam. Rob, I love your "out of the box thinkin" and were usually on the same page,but I don't like either of these rigs. Next time we get together I'll show you the UK style long distance clip down rig. Much more effective.


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## barty b (Dec 31, 2004)

I have modified this rig somewhat with less hardware but this is the general idea








I replace the breakaway impact shield w/ a cutoff #12 aberdeen hook and less beads. Also the trace is not floating on the lead line. It is pinned w/a uni knot. 

I have tried a lot of different rigs for streamlining casts and have found that a standard double dropper loop rig really cant be beat for whiting and pompano. for the drum and other "fishfinder rig" fish, For them there is the clip rigs.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

I also use clip downs, mostly like the "up and over" configuration your diagram shows. With this rigging I am not restricted to a short leadered fishfinder although at times I will use one as short as 4 -6 inches. 










I especially like the Breakaway impact leads, they do away with the impact shields. I use both the wired and unwired ones (for when I want the bait to drift)

When fluking I can cast a killie / squidstrip combo on a loooong leadered floating jighead upwards of 100 yards. Sometimes the bass like a bit of distance too between the weight and bait. I can put a clam foot right in the mouth of a cut with this . . . 










Clipdowns are the way to go for distance that approaches bare sinker numbers.


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## barty b (Dec 31, 2004)

Yup thats the rig sarge, Glad someone had a pic readily available. Thanks!


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

I like it I like it. I guess I need to souce the moulds and the top part of the sinkers.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

Digger, I would think the molds and likeness are proprietary of Breakaway Tackle, protected under their patent. They have the impact shield integral in the lead; place your hook on the small spur and when cast the bait and hook rides in the slipstram of the sinker. Upon impact, the plastic collar rides up and knocks the hook off the spur and the rig fishes normally. . . 










The Yellow ones are 150gm (5.25oz), the red ones are 170gm (6.3oz) and the green ones are 200gm (7.1oz).











Barty,
I also fashion my own cascade or clip down clips out of small hooks and snipped down duolock snaps.  

On my next sinker pour I am considering sistering a similar small spur next to the sinker's eye or tail . . . I think even without the plastic shield something like this should release without problem:


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## davewolfs (Dec 27, 2006)

All these rigs look great  Under what circumanstances should you use what rig?

Not trying to upset anyone here, but the first thing that comes to my mind is why not simply put your weight above your swivel like a standard carolina rig?

I am sure that this has something to do with casting and perhaps one of the veterans could answer.

Great posts!

Dave


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

davewolfs said:


> All these rigs look great  Under what circumanstances should you use what rig?
> 
> Not trying to upset anyone here, but the first thing that comes to my mind is why not simply put your weight above your swivel like a standard carolina rig?
> 
> ...


This rig;










does fish as a regular fishfinder / carolina rig _once it is deployed_. 










We are all trying to get the most distance with these rigs, some go with a very short (or non-existant) leader to reduce air resistance and the absolute bane of distance, helicoptering.

Clip-down rigs allow one to use dropper style or fishfinder style rigs with whatever leader length you desire and have the bait slipstream behind the sinker. 

Clip-down rigs also protect the bait . . . When using a very soft bait like peeler crab, mussels or seaworms (especially sandworms) the bait isn't getting beat up in flight or smashed when it hits the water. For those of us who are anal regarding presentation, clip-downs assure us that the bait reaches the bottom looking like how we wanted it to look, not tattered and hanging by a thread.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Sgt_Slough said:


> This rig;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 SGT fishes where they fish with clams,live eels,squid,I assume?? Here we are fishing with cob mullet heads,or bodys,menhaden heads,or bodys.. They stay in tact in the cast using a "nonexistant leader" on fishfinder setup.. 
I haven't used the rig Sgt does,but in the area I fish with the baits fished,and the critters I fish for it would be no more effective than just the very simple rig we are using,imho.. The rig bears merit in that it can actually get a clam out there at long distance and not have it get yanked off the hook. I'm sure there are applications where that rig is no doubt,da chit,especially for those that feel the bait should be set far apart from the sinker...


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

With mods it can throw serious baits and handle big fish. 

I use a rig configured something like the diagram for sharkin; . . . tossing a half a sea mullet on 400lb mono and 8ft of piano wire & cable for 5ft+ Browns.

I've used this for bunker noggins and chunks for bass without issue (although with 12" to 18" leader).


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## BubbaBlue (May 11, 2004)

Sgt_Slough said:


> ... I've used this for bunker noggins and chunks for bass without issue...


 
.


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## HuskyMD (May 19, 2000)

I use your #2 rig when fishing the hudson with my mom. We only cast out about 25 yards to a nice hole so the resistance doesn't matter. I put another bead on top of the slider so it won't slide up past the shock knot.

I love catching stripers that close to shore on light gear (7')!


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## dirtyhandslopez (Nov 17, 2006)

I was shown this set up last Oct. by JAM and had reservations, namely that the weight actualy hittng the hook and slapping around the fishes head would cause problems with the hook hole opening up, steel hitting steel ...but after using the rig(and Charlotte using it to) and catching fish with it, that doesn't seem to be a problem. Anyone got any ideas WHY it's NOT a problem?


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## Mark G (Nov 15, 2004)

dirtyhandslopez said:


> I was shown this set up last Oct. by JAM and had reservations, namely that the weight actualy hittng the hook and slapping around the fishes head would cause problems with the hook hole opening up, steel hitting steel ...but after using the rig(and Charlotte using it to) and catching fish with it, that doesn't seem to be a problem. Anyone got any ideas WHY it's NOT a problem?



Depends on the species to some extent. It ain't easy to work a circle hook back out of a tough drum's jaw, even after extended battle. As long as you keep tension on the line I can't see them "spitting" the hook very often. I'm sure anyone who has lost a nice fish at their feet may disagree- maybe I've just been fortunate.

I don't think the weight itself stays near enough to the hook during battle to actually increase the hook hole size in a drum- a species with softer tissue- maybe.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

*This is the way I've started doing the "Cannonballrig"..*

I've taken 125 mono,tied a nailknot to snellhook,passing tag end through the eye instead of cutting it.. Same setup except as you can see,I took the tag end after nailknotting the hook,and passed it back through and made a bend in the line.. 










Here is the rig ready to go.. I took the tag end and slid a bead over the tag end,then followed with spro snap.. The tag end helps keep the bait and sinker together in the cast making it one neat package going through the air This rig should aid in stopping any helecoptering,and the sinker and weight should seperate when it hits the water... I threw this rig last weekend,it casted very well.. It appears as though it is less prone to helecoptering than any rig I've thrown so far... As far as the general rig itself,been fishin it for a while now,and have caught just as many fish with this as the standard fishfinder rig..


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## AtlantaKing (Jul 7, 2002)

Whoa, that's cool! I'm going to try that next trip! :fishing:

I love threads with lots of pictures. What can I say...I'm a visual kinda guy


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## Big Worm (Mar 29, 2005)

DD, I am going to tie a couple up like this with circle hooks, care to put some of your JU JU on them when I am in town  on the 22nd?

Or pull them apart with your bare hands


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Big Worm said:


> DD, I am going to tie a couple up like this with circle hooks, care to put some of your JU JU on them when I am in town  on the 22nd?
> 
> Or pull them apart with your bare hands


 Not good juju at all last week... Got call to fish point after work.. HAD TO GET BOAT BOTTOM PAINTED RIGHT THEN!! Knew if I didn't it wouldn't get done,so I decided to sit it out... They caught well over a hundred over 40".. Hope to make up for it in the boat.. 

If I pull your rig apart with my bare hands and it's 125,we'll have to put you in a knot tieing class..


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## thebeachcaster (Aug 7, 2006)

*Looks like*

The bait hook latches to the hook on the weight? Then once in the water the whole thing comes undone? I can think of a few cases where that might work on the NC coast. Those breakaways look kind of expensive so I'll have to fab something close.


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

Drumdum, I got a stupid question. 

I use the same nail knot snell as you. The tag end come out the bottom of the snell toward the point. 

It's hard to tell from your pic, but are you just bending the tag end back up and through the eye to keep the bead in place?

Or are you somehow snellin' yer hook with the tag end pointin' up? 

Told ya it was a stupid question.


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## Drumdum (Jan 6, 2003)

Newsjeff said:


> Drumdum, I got a stupid question.
> 
> I use the same nail knot snell as you. The tag end come out the bottom of the snell toward the point.
> 
> ...


 bending tag end towards eye of hook...


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

Hey Jeff, if you look a little closer at the first picture, the tag end went to the bottom and bend back to the eye.  

I use the same rig, with no bead, and not bending the tag end. I haven't noticed any helicoptering affect, could be I fish in the dark, or I cast out of site.


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

CrawFish said:


> Hey Jeff, if you look a little closer at the first picture, the tag end went to the bottom and bend back to the eye.
> 
> I use the same rig, with no bead, and not bending the tag end. I haven't noticed any helicoptering affect, could be I fish in the dark, or I cast out of site.


Definetly th dark...J/K


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

Cdog said:


> Definetly th dark...J/K


You've caught me.


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## Fishman (Apr 23, 2000)

Surf Cat said:


> only one sugestion, lose the bead- even though it will be less the bead contributes a bit to the helicopter effect- may or not make a big difference, but I would try one with and without the bead to find out for sure.
> 
> Gonna try the rig out myself- will report back my results first chance I get.


Keep this the way it is. The bead keep the swivel from riding up omnthe hook.




Railroader said:


> Here's another idea....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is not a good idea in my opinion the fis will feel the weight of the sinkerand not take the bait.


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