# Advice on party boat grouper combo.



## fishyfingas (Feb 1, 2009)

I'm planning a trip to N.C. this summer and want to bring my own
rod and reel for deep water grouper. 

I don't want to spend a lot of money on a set up that I will be only
using once or twice a year.

Right now I'm thinking a used penn 113h 4/0 as the reel, even
tough it's very heavy. That's one possibility. The fact that they 
are easy to find used in pawn shops or ebay puts them at the top 
of the list. I'm sure there are others.

Finding a used rod perfect for this application is a little tougher. 
I might have to go new on the rod. I was thinking of a 6ft. xtra H
Ugly Stick. However, I really never liked 6ft. rods on a party boat.
I would definetly prefer a 7ft. rod.

I appreciate any and all advice.
A couple of suggestions on party boats would be helpful too.


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## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

Youll do good with that reel. A lot of people still use those bottom fishing. (not that its bad).

A daiwa Beefstick with stainless guides are a bit cheaper. They can be like broom sticks and suit the reel perfect. ALso look at (I cant believe I'll say this) Key Largo's bottom fishing rod. They make a 7 footer and even a 7'6" for bottom fishing. I think its called the grouper special.


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## Carolina Rebel (Aug 25, 2005)

People will probably say its crazy, but having used those and a couple other reels here's my opinion:
Having fished a good bit on party boats (probably 30-40 trips) the past few years, caught a few grouper, amberjacks, rays, big sharks, a spiney lobster, and plenty of b-liners and other smaller fish, and gotten pretty well acquainted with the whole system. You see all kinds of reels in use, boat reels are often Penn 309s, 160s, 85s, 3/0s, 4/0s, 6/0s, some high speed some low speed. I've even seen Jigmasters in use out there. 
I first started using boat setups, pretty limber rods with above mentioned reels. I caught a 19lb red and a 22lb AJ on these setups, and it was an adventure. The AJ even busted a black-sideplate 4/0, gears were grinding awfully by the time that fish was boated (no telling how much neglect that reel had seen, I'm not blaming it). 
Rule on the headboats is you'll want to use at least 50lb, nominally 80lb monofilament line, with the drag locked down as tight as you can get it (some folks will use a deep socket to lock it down, but its easy to break arms off the drag star this way). Because there will be at least 30, maybe 60+ people fishing alongside you, you're not going to want to cut the fish any slack. That plus a grouper's tendency to back into a hole right after the hookset means locking that drag down makes sense. After you hook the fish you want to bring him up as quickly and in as straight a line as possible, no playing with him if you can help it. 
That said, after watching the old timers that go on these boats every weekend, talking to a couple captains, etc., I purchased a Penn 9/0, and a 50-80lb class rod about 6' in length. The 9/0 is a big reel and is very heavy, but fishing on the headboat you'll oftentimes have your rod resting on the boat serving as a fulcrum, 16+oz of weight plus bait 100+' down in the depths, and so the reel is somewhat balanced out. Cranking that weight/bait back up, or if a fish is on, the reel is easily balanced out, that weight on the handle side of the rod can help you keep his head turned on the way up. The 9/0 has a fairly low gear ratio, meaning its easier to crank than a high speed reel, and if the spool is loaded you retrieve a LOT of line with each turn of the handle. These things are absolute winches, with solid drags and are great for this application. You'll get looks from people and questions like "What do you plan on catching, a whale?" until they see how easily that first grouper is hefted up, then it will catch on. Like I said, I've caught a few grouper out there, and unless its over 15lbs I don't have to pump them up--just rest the rod on the rail and crank hard, head will turn and fish will come to the boat. AJ's are another proposition entirely, but this reel has stood up to plenty of them with no trouble. 
These reels are more expensive and harder to find than a 4/0, but if you're willing to pop one open and do a little basic maintenence, you should be able to score on one on ebay for around $60.00 plus shipping. Personally I've switched to Daiwa's 900-class reels, these come from the factory with aluminum frames and sideplates (an expensive add on if you want that on a Penn, and impervious to green corrosion), are a little smoother overall than the Penns, and you can get them for dirt cheap. A 900H (has a regular handle) maxes out around $100 in new condition, used they go for $50-$60. A 910H or 920H (has a huge power handle, which you can cut/modify to regular proportions for around $20.00, or just leave it......it looks neat and gives you more power, just not great on a crowded boat) goes from $40-$50. 
There are several good boats up and down the coast. I've had good experience with Captain Dave in Morehead City (Continental Shelf was the boat), the Vonda Kay at Topsail with the other Captain Dave, Voyager Fleet at Calabash, and before the ban kicked in we were having great luck with the Hurricane Fleet out of Calabash. Never really had a bad experience on any of these boats, though all have had off days once in awhile.


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## plotalot (Apr 27, 2009)

Why? Why would you prefer a 7 foot over a 6 footer? I'm not trying to argue a point here, I'm just curious of why. Another thing to consider is, that while most boats will welcome you aboard with your own tackle, some won't let you use their lead, leaders and hooks. That is something you need to ask when making reservations, not once you're on the boat. When I made that call, I'd find out what sort of gear was the standard issue loaner gear. It doesn't make good sense to me to invest in tackle that is essentially about the same as what will be loaned to you on the boat. If they are already handing out 4/0 gear why not use theirs for free and invest your money in say a 6/0 or even a 9/0, to give yourself a bit more umpf?

I can't argue with your Penn Senator choice if that is where your budget puts you, even if you went with a new reel it is an excellent value. Having personally fished with a spiral wrapped bottom rod, I can't emphasize enough how much of an advantages one. If I were to bring my own rod on a party boat it would be because it was spiral wrapped, whether it was a store bought rod I modified or one I built up from a blank. If you're inclined to build your own or could have one built, here are some relatively inexpensive blanks you may consider (even some 8 footers): http://www.mudhole.com/Shop-Our-Catalog/Mud-Hole-Custom-Builder-Rod-Blanks/E-Glass-Value-Blanks


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## fishyfingas (Feb 1, 2009)

Guys, super responses. That's just the info I was looking for.

Ryan I'm going to look into the Key Largo grouper special.

C.R. that's very detailed info and I couldn't ask for better 
advise. I'm going to look into that Daiwa lineup. Maybe I could
find them on ebay. I was thinking abot going out of Calabash.
That stretch of coatline between Southport and South Carolina
is just awesome. One question. You mention a 6ft. rod. What are 
your toughts on the 7 ft vs. the 6ft.? Any preferences as to which
brand? Used or new.


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## fishyfingas (Feb 1, 2009)

Hey plotalot. I just don't like boat gear. I'll use it if I have to. But if you get
one that's been beat up real good your just going to have a bad day on the water. When I think of a 6ft. rod I think of fishing from a private boat.
I always tought that the 7ft rod was more user friendly on the party boats.
I don't know. Maybe it doesn't apply in this type of deep water fishing.

For instance I've read on the Florida boards that guys use 8ft rods for
grouper and red snapper out of the Key West fishing the Tortugas.
I think that's a bit much. So i'm not sure if it's all personal choice or
a local style of fishing. Personal experience, I like 7ft off the party boats.
Now, if that's not the way to go for N.C. grouper I can go with a 6ft rod if
that's the expert advise.

B.T.W. I've only seen one spiral wrapped fishing rod at a fishing tackle
show. Now I'm sure it does the job, but I can't pull the trigger on buying
that rod. Interesting you bring up Mudhole. I'm taking a rod building class
this spring with Mudhole.


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## plotalot (Apr 27, 2009)

fishyfingas said:


> Hey plotalot. I just don't like boat gear. I'll use it if I have to. But if you get
> one that's been beat up real good your just going to have a bad day on the water...
> 
> 
> ...


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## Carolina Rebel (Aug 25, 2005)

I prefer a 6' rod primarily due to the leverage advantage it affords. A good 'broom stick' will make it easier to turn a fish in a hurry. I fish a 7' roller guided rod from time to time, and the 6'er will make a little difference. One place the 7' rod is nice is when a big AJ, shark, etc. is shooting under the boat, extended reach will give you a little more time before your line is sawed in half, but that is the only advantage IMO. Even a big gag grouper will come more or less straight up (or dive straight down), if the fish is swimming in circles or making big lateral movements don't let it break your heart when the line goes slack. Aside from light line and bait setups, you seldom see a rod bigger than 7' at the back of the boat amongst the grouper crowd. I did get to catch a keeper sized b-liner on an 8' 30-50 class rod last year (Lamiglas or some other west coast special) with a Shimano Torium, was the hardest a single b-liner has ever worked me over!


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## Carolina Rebel (Aug 25, 2005)

By the way, now is the time to buy reels on ebay--there's a handful of Daiwa Sealine 900Hs and 910s on there now, looks like the 900s are both around $50.00.


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## Ryan Y (Dec 1, 2005)

A lot of people that fish the headboats on the left coast like the 7 foot rods because of the distance between the rail and the water. I'm surpised it isnt more popular here on the east coast. 
I have used both 6 to 7 foot rods. I like the longer rods higher up off the water myself.


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## fishyfingas (Feb 1, 2009)

Plotalot, it's really only the concept and look of the rod. Now I understand
that a lot of guys in the know swear by them, but i have never even seen
one on a party boat. Maybe it's more of a private boater upscale rod.

C.R. I looked at the Daiwa 900h on ebay. What's the difference between the 
900H and the 910H? 
Also, do the drags have to be upgraded on all these reels in order to get maximum drag? A lot of info on upgrading drags on these reels on the net.
I've fished for amberjack out of the Keys (using charter boat tackle) and they are beast that never give up. I understand there a good number of these bad boys mixed in with the groupers. To me they are more of a 
nuisance when targeting another species. I see your point about what most 
guys are using. Then again C.R. some Florida fishermen use 8ft rod for grouper and that I think would be too much on a crowded party boat.

Your right Ryan, a lot of guys use 7ft up to 8ft rods chasing tuna and deep water fish out on the west coast. 

Hey they make 6.6ft rod too so that's another choice.


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## Carolina Rebel (Aug 25, 2005)

I have never had the drag slip on the Daiwas with them tightened all the way down, and thats all you need for grouper. They might not be the smoothest drag systems around out of the box (the fiber washers don't look like much), but they're plenty strong.


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## fishyfingas (Feb 1, 2009)

Guys, thanks again for all the great advice.


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