# Penn Reels-Made in America?



## Ruedy (Oct 10, 2000)

I just bought a new Penn SSG spinning reel for my kid's 15th b'day. Putting it on the pole I spotted a little sticker on the bottom of the reel foot that said "Made in China"!.......Please tell me this is not so!!!


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## Samurai (Nov 24, 2005)

Sorry to say but it is true.---I was told that some of the higher end models are still made in the U.S.A.


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## USEF THE MAG (Jul 7, 2006)

*i think*

i think only the offshore trolling models are made USA...all others are china junk...

Dick Henry bought Penn and is screwing it all up.....probably Tica (everwinner industrial tackle company ltd) is making Penn now.... they used to make Daiwa... and still do a little...


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## MCS (Aug 15, 2006)

My 525 Mag said Made in the USA.


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## RuddeDogg (Mar 20, 2004)

*Yep*

It's true, although you can get both.


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## seajay (Dec 18, 2005)

The Internationals are the only Penn still made in the U.S.A. For light tackle we are stuck with the imports. Cabelas has there Great White spinning series that looks to be well made has anyone used one yet?


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## reelfixer (Nov 8, 2005)

There is very little of the PENN Brand equipment still made in the USA. I believe the International Reels and rods and the SS reels are still being made here. Penn was bought by Dick Henry and his wife and Jerry Rubenstein and his wife. Jerry owns MASTER REELS while Dick owns SEA STRIKER. I understand only the Internationals will remain a USA made product. 

Contrary wise, Van Stahl is still a USA product, and FIN-NOR will be a USA Product. They are owner by Quantum, or Zebco Corporation which is same company.

Interesting isn't it!


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## seajay (Dec 18, 2005)

Sea Striker is a good low end product,i.e. the big chian store. Master reels are toys.


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

Ruedy said:


> I just bought a new Penn SSG spinning reel for my kid's 15th b'day. Putting it on the pole I spotted a little sticker on the bottom of the reel foot that said "Made in China"!.......Please tell me this is not so!!!


Why is that a problem? China doesn't mean the product is any different, it just means that the guy putting the product together doesn't belong to a union and doesn't make $41.50 an hour.


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## reelfixer (Nov 8, 2005)

Being made in China or anywhere else is not a problem for a lot of people, including myself; however, most of the USA is now made overseas. I do see that as a problem. Unfortunately, you have to buy foreign in most cases to get what you want. They don't make it here any longer.The quality of workmanship in China is very good, but the quality of the components is not the equal you would get from Penn USA. Okuma is made in China too, maybe at the same factory, and they need a lot of TLC to last.


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## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

*"most of the USA is now made overseas".*

"most of the USA is now made overseas".

You don't see a problem with this, my god man think about your statement....Lack of personal responsibility is whay were @ where we are @ today.. No we don't produce much any more, people have lost jobs, quality is crap, live in a desposible society. Amount of people Hunting is down amouint of people fishing is down I don't expect things to last like they used to.. ( I know I can take care of me and mine) What would happen @ war time, with minimal manufacturing in country and China/ the rest of the world says your cut off..All for the almighty dollar... H#ll in a Hand Basket I tell ya.. Enjoy the ride..Sorry about the rant but rubed me the wrong way...

Oh back to fishing ALL Conventionals will be made in country .... JAM


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## Ruedy (Oct 10, 2000)

Surf Fish said:


> Why is that a problem? China doesn't mean the product is any different, it just means that the guy putting the product together doesn't belong to a union and doesn't make $41.50 an hour.


"Made in China" is not a problem for me. It's just that I thought in buying a penn reel I was helping to support Americans. My problem is along the lines of what Reelfixer and Jam said above.

Heck, a year or two ago, some French (I think) company bought Winchester. And now the Model 94 Lever Action is no longer in production!

Sad state we are in, I say.


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## Ruedy (Oct 10, 2000)

As a caveat: I lived my first 5 years in a Philly row home within walking distance of Hunting Park,
not far from the original Penn factory on Hunting Park Avenue........So purchasing a Penn product always meant something special to me. It won't be so special anymore, but I will treasure my older Penn reels.


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## MCS (Aug 15, 2006)

On a side note...

One of my cars is Japanese, my computer is Japanese made, my wife is Japanese, my kids were "Made in Japan"  , damn near every peice of electronics in my house is made in the Orient...

I guess im not so worried about "supporting American companies" for two reasons: Most of the products made in America are crap and I do enough "Supporting America" in my chosen profession.


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## Black Beard (Jan 25, 2001)

I see an awful lot of negative speculation but little in the way of facts here.

Before you consign one of, if not THE greatest manufacturers of fishing equipment in the USA to the scrap heap, how about someone call Penn and ask them where most of their reels are made. I know, many here patently do not.

Neil Mackellow

The telephone number is 215 229 3053


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*Just called Penn*

Choose option #3, left a message for Larry Campbell, "Asking where most of Penn reels are made, specifly the SSG and SSM and the 525mag and the GS line of reels?"

I have not trashed Penn reels, was very unhappy when my 525mag had cracks in the cage, they did replace it.

Now you take that puppy apart and the older Jig Master 500 and Squidder's I have and they are built rock solid. I wish there was a way to tell the age of the older 500 and 140; cause they are still around catching fish and taking a beating.


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

Black Beard said:


> I see an awful lot of negative speculation but little in the way of facts here.
> 
> Before you consign one of, if not THE greatest manufacturers of fishing equipment in the USA to the scrap heap, how about someone call Penn and ask them where most of their reels are made. I know, many here patently do not.
> 
> ...


While you're at it, ask them about their business model. Why do they make reels to sell in the U.K. that everybody in the U.S. wants and they don't sell them in the U.S. Must be some convoluted logic behind that plan....


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## terpfan (May 30, 2002)

Surf Fish said:


> While you're at it, ask them about their business model. Why do they make reels to sell in the U.K. that everybody in the U.S. wants and they don't sell them in the U.S. Must be some convoluted logic behind that plan....


i think it is the market. what is the percentage of the US fisherman (surf) who is willing pay $$$ for rod and reel.(probably less than 1%) high end US market is definately focused on boaters. if penn or any other company thought that they can make money in US, they will definately market it. you know we are the world's largest consumer.


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## terpfan (May 30, 2002)

also, we live in a country where ugly stick is probably considered the best rod.


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## Black Beard (Jan 25, 2001)

Surf Fish said:


> While you're at it, ask them about their business model. Why do they make reels to sell in the U.K. that everybody in the U.S. wants and they don't sell them in the U.S. Must be some convoluted logic behind that plan....


That's an easy one, they don't!

The UK take the standard reel and modify it to meet our needs. They are readily available from most mail order houses in the UK. BB


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*Do you know Shakespears makes*

some fantastic rods for the UK. 

Not really sure why some of the tackle company don't sell, what we here in the U.S. consider better products, in the U.S. market. Maybe if we got organized and wrote letters asking them to market all of their products here also or get a few tackle shops to request them.

Just like the auto industry, they make and produce cars just for other markets.


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## Black Beard (Jan 25, 2001)

Not as simple as that Orest, there are many reasons why European prodcts are not sold in the US.

However, as I have said before most of the equipment you mention can be purchased online from any number of dealers in the UK and Europe.

Certainly with the USD as it is right now makes it pretty expensive to import stuff, but is is available and we all live in a global market.

An earlier post implied people will not spend big bucks on high end rods as the most popular rod in the US was probably an UglyStick! 

Funny yes, but a very valid point too.

If you want purpose designed high end stuff you have to pay for it, wherever you live - BB


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

A very good thread. What I find most intresting is there was a time the style of Heaver that is used in this region is known as a Hatteras Heaver well at least it was called that years ago(the region is Mid Atlantic; to me anyway). Then I moved to Fla and I used a 7ft spinning rod to play with some huge fish because I did not need to throw bait as far as I once did(the bait or lure is not that heavy either). Now in the UK the distance they need to throw a bait(sea worm for example) to catch a fish is much greater than it is here. Here is why they need the ability to cast long distances: to catch fiish that we may concider of no importance. BB what would most people in the UK do to catch a cooler of Croaker as we do here in the fall? I talking a 50 liter cooler and it being full. And all we need is a 20 foot cast. we are spoiled. But if we waht the better distance we can still order that reel or rod.


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## Green Cart (May 14, 2002)

*US Ugly Stick vs UK Ugly Stick*

Blackbeard

I think you misunderstood Orest who said "Do you know Shakespears make some fantastic rods for the UK" as opposed to terpfan who said "also, we live in a country where ugly stick is probably considered the best rod". 

However, you did say that UK takes the USA Penn reels and improve them and sell them as the UK model.


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## Black Beard (Jan 25, 2001)

Green Cart said:


> Blackbeard
> 
> I think you misunderstood Orest who said "Do you know Shakespears make some fantastic rods for the UK" as opposed to terpfan who said "also, we live in a country where ugly stick is probably considered the best rod".
> 
> I think I understod what he said, it was that earlier post - as a joke I think - meant that the favourite rod in the US was probably an Ugly stick - which I took to imply that not a lot of people laid out big bucks for a rod??? BB


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## Black Beard (Jan 25, 2001)

Digger; BB what would most people in the UK do to catch a cooler of Croaker as we do here in the fall? I talking a 50 liter cooler and it being full. And all we need is a 20 foot cast. we are spoiled. But if we waht the better distance we can still order that reel or rod.[/QUOTE said:


> Hi Digger - we don't get Croaker over here, the equivalent would be whiting or pout, both members of the cod family but like Crocadile Dundee said about iguana, you can eat it but it tastes like***.
> 
> However, we would in the main be putting three hook rigs a lot further than 20ft!
> I have to say that I fish in the US pretty regularly - VA, NC, Texas, Florida etc and apart from sea mullet in NC mostly I fish at distances in excess of 300ft. BB


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*All I was saying*

is that Shakespear make some great rods for the UK market and what they sell here, I would not buy. Yes if I had the $$$ to spend I would order all my gear from the UK. But with 2 house payment and a son in college and a grandson to spoil, I will settle for rods and reels sold in the USA. And not complain cause I bought what I could afford. I don't think the fish are one way or another.

I go to Veals site alot and dream........


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## Dolphinpier (Aug 15, 2006)

Penn has gone one step further than having some of their products made overseas. In order to control price on some of the better quality products, they have issued a list to internet sellers of penn product that they are allowed to sell. The ones they are trying to control the price of are only sold to dealers that have a real tackle shop on a piece of property. This will cut out many of the good deals we have been able to get by shopping sites like Digitaldagger. I kind of think there may be a court battle coming in the future. And that is not good for Penn - win or lose. And it is definitely not good for the consumer.


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## DickDog (Jul 19, 2006)

*Buy cheap buy twice*

My wife has been telling me this and its finally sunk in. We in the US waste so goddarn much money. Cheap sh#t is available so we all can have one of whatever it is...therefore there is no value placed on it. If one spent more on let's say a rod they would value it more and teach this value to others. Teach a kid to fish sure...but teach him the value of the equipment first so he'll respect it first. If its cheap crap then the novelty wears off. Buy American, Pay more, but get the good stuff.

Honestly its like a Pat's Cheesesteak in Philly. Everyone copies it...tries to make it...but it just ain't a cheesesteak. I'd willingly drive 3 hours to philly and spend seven bucks on a cheesesteak to get what i want. Wiz witout.


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## MCS (Aug 15, 2006)

I'm not trying to turn this into an argument with anyone, but unless all the products in your house say "Made in the USA" then you don't have a say in this.

And if you want to "Support America", instead of buying American products, how about volunteering in your community or maybe writing letters to Congress complaining about illegal immigration, perverts in the government, churches, schools etc. There's a million ways to support America besides griping about where Penn makes their reels.

I can go on and on, but the complaints here have nothing to do with supporting America. They have everything to do with expecting a product to live up to some magical standards that haven't been found in this country in years.


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

Black Beard said:


> That's an easy one, they don't!
> 
> The UK take the standard reel and modify it to meet our needs. They are readily available from most mail order houses in the UK. BB


You lost me... Who is the "UK"? The reels are modified by Penn UK, or individuals in the UK?


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## Black Beard (Jan 25, 2001)

Surf Fish said:


> You lost me... Who is the "UK"? The reels are modified by Penn UK, or individuals in the UK?


We, Penn UK, design and make new components in the UK for the standard US reels the better to suit our methods here - BB


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## Black Beard (Jan 25, 2001)

Dolphinpier said:


> Penn has gone one step further than having some of their products made overseas. In order to control price on some of the better quality products, they have issued a list to internet sellers of penn product that they are allowed to sell. The ones they are trying to control the price of are only sold to dealers that have a real tackle shop on a piece of property. This will cut out many of the good deals we have been able to get by shopping sites like Digitaldagger. I kind of think there may be a court battle coming in the future. And that is not good for Penn - win or lose. And it is definitely not good for the consumer.


It is my understanding that few US manufacturers/wholesalers supply product to cyber shops. And with good reason.

The surest way to kill off a manufacturer is to allow his products to be sold by people with low or no overheads who sell at or below cost thus driving the prices down. Eventually the margin becomes un-sustainable and the manufacturer lays off workers and/or goes into liquidation.

We bitch about prices at the tackle shops but without them where would you get your bait, advice, coffee and the time of day?

Genuine retailers in the US work on low margins and try to provide a service and should be supported. 

Many cyber shops are here today gone tomorrow, only to resurface with another load of tat, end of line products and/or rip offs.

As for products made in the Far East, the day the first manufacturer brought in his first consignment everyone else had to follow or die! 

Many simply buy job lots to dump, others, Penn included, have US staffers in the factories overseeing all aspects of manufacture and QA.

You have two options, be beholdent to the Far East and pay next to nothing for your rods and reels getting the appropriate quality or, pay the right price and get the right quality from a company who invests in a policy of providing US quality at reasonable prices - BB


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## Ruedy (Oct 10, 2000)

Man! Guess I opened a bag of stinky worms.


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## DickDog (Jul 19, 2006)

MarineCorpsSgt said:


> There's a million ways to support America besides griping about where Penn makes their reels.
> 
> I can go on and on, but the complaints here have nothing to do with supporting America. They have everything to do with expecting a product to live up to some magical standards that haven't been found in this country in years.


First of all Thank You for Serving this country.

you are absolutely right...Its not about supporting America. For me Its about not being a glutonous pig and buying stuff just cause its cheap even if its good quality. The swedes don't support america but i buy abugarcia. Its just that i won't buy an "american product" if its made in china. I won't buy any china product but thats a whole other discussion. 

I would have returned the product and told them the reason was that its made in china. 

In a global market we have to buy from foreign competitors. Thanks to people like MCS I can choose who I'm gonna buy from. I prefer to buy american if it makes sense.

I wont speak for others nor will i tell them what to do. Civilians should think for themselves.


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## senatorreel (Oct 6, 2006)

*Penn Fishing Tackle*

I came across this string of posts and see that there is much speculation and very few facts. 

I am the CEO of Penn and my father spent well over 40 years here. I grew up at Penn making reels manufacturing parts and have a great deal of love and respect for our history and hope for our future. 

I believe that Penn is truly "The Great American Reel Company" and that the legacy of Penn’s founder, Otto Henze, is alive and strong. I think that if Otto Henze were alive today he would be proud that his dream continues of making some of the world’s finest reels.

Penn found itself with new competition during the late 1980s and throughout the 1990s and its failure to update its products and manufacturing techniques left the company at a competitive disadvantage in the industry. In January 2003, Penn was purchased by individuals who have owned companies and worked in the fishing industry for many years. The new ownership group saw clearly the company’s hidden value and recognized that Penn could once again become the industry leader. Since 2003 the new management team has been working hard to invest in the values on which the Company was built: Quality, Engineering, and Innovation.

At the helm of Penn today is a group of leaders who understand the value of Penn’s brand and the need to continue manufacturing product in the United States. I grew up in the business and along with its ownership group is committed to the future of the company. The combination of the ownership group’s experience, passion and knowledge about the company has enabled Penn to make significant improvements in product quality and designs. While some of Penn’s products have had to be re-sourced from its U.S. manufacturing facilities, much of Penn’s products are still manufactured in its Philadelphia factory. 

The ownership group, management team, and all of our employees are proud to be a part of Penn and look forward to being a part of its bright future. We know that our best products — and the best fishing — are still ahead.

Regards,
Dave Martin
CEO
Penn Fishing Tackle


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## BubbaBlue (May 11, 2004)

senatorreel said:


> ...I am the CEO of Penn and my father spent well over 40 years here. I grew up at Penn making reels manufacturing parts and have a great deal of love and respect for our history and hope for our future. ...


Well, dang!

Welcome to our group, Dave. 
.


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## Orest (Jul 28, 2003)

*Welcome to the site*

Mr. Martin. Thanks for the report on Penn. And thanks to who ever pointed you to this site/thread.  



Have a good day.


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## senatorreel (Oct 6, 2006)

*Penn Reels*

Thanks you for the responses. 

For years we have been a quiet company and haven't done a great job of communicating our vision and direction. I hope you develop a sense that we are working hard to develop new reels that are in line with what you expect from Penn. While we have outsourced some reels, 8 of the 12 new reels introduced this year are being made right here in our Philadelphia plant. It is our belief that the only way we can maintain our US production is to innovate and aggressively patent protect our ideas. If we are successful at this we can insulate ourselves somewhat from the global market and maintain the high-end quality reels that everyone expects from Penn.

Dave Martin
CEO 
Penn Fishing Tackle


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

DickDog said:


> My wife has been telling me this and its finally sunk in. We in the US waste so goddarn much money. Cheap sh#t is available so we all can have one of whatever it is...therefore there is no value placed on it.


Cashiers at Walmart doesn't teach values.

Mothers and fathers teach values.

I just bought three rods on Ebay. All three brand new. All three made in China. I paid $6.52 for the first one, $6.49 for the second one, and $.99 for the third one, plus the shipping for each one. First one I bought was out of curiousity - how could anybody sell a rod for six bucks. The other two I bought because the first one was a nice rod, and just as good as most of the brand name rods I've owned, perfect for the kind of fishing I do, and a great deal. 

I've been fishing with two of them for the last couple weeks. When I put them in the truck, I'm just as careful with them as I am with any other rod I own. When I'm done fishing with them, I wash them off just like I do with any other rod I've ever own.

The fact that they are the most inexpensive rods I've ever owned doesn't have any bearing on how I take care of them because when I was a kid, my parents taught me some values that I needed to go thru life. 

When I was ten, if I needed a new rod or another Mitchell 300, nobody GAVE me one. I had to work around the house or deliver papers to earn the money to buy my own rods and reels. At the time, it was a bit difficult for me to understand why I had to get up at 5 AM to deliver papers to earn my own money when the other kids parents would just buy them whatever they wanted. Fifty years later it's easy to understand...

People who don't take care of a cheap rod also won't take care of a custom built heaver. You can't blame that on Walmart or China. Blame that on their mama. 

America has some problems, but they didn't start in China. They started right here at home...

I have a small collection of old Penn reels. Two things about them amaze me. One, the quality. Take a 40 year old Penn reel apart, clean it up and lube it, and it's like brand new. Two, the lack of appreciation and care shown to those old Penn reels by previous owners. None of them would have green, corroded chrome if only the previous owner had spent two minutes washing them off when he was done fishing, but the majority of people just don't bother.

I also just bought a new Penn reel. I don't know where it was made, China, the U.S., Hong Kong, Timbucktoo. I didn't buy it to read the box, I bought it to go fishing. I bought it because I associate the name "Penn" with a quality reel. If it is a quality reel, I'll go buy another one and recommend it to other people I know who fish. If it's not, I won't do either. I'm sure that Penn has been in business long enough to realize that I don't want a _Philadelphia_ reel, I want a _quality_ reel...


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

Black Beard said:


> We bitch about prices at the tackle shops but without them where would you get your bait, advice, coffee and the time of day?


I don't know where you fish, but where I fish, it works like this.... 

We catch our own bait. 

We don't drink coffee, we drink beer.

We buy our rods, reels, tackle, etc. from online retailers on the internet because it's faster, easier, cheaper, and we don't have to support Exxon Mobile while we do it. 

Advice is the LAST thing we want from any of the local tackle shops. 

If I want to buy a Penn reel, I'll buy one online instead of from the local tackle shop because it shows up on my door step and I don't have to listen to a load of crap from the local tackle shop owner about all the fish everybody is catching in the hopes that I'll go home with an extra bag of crap that he's trying to unload....

DigitalDagger is the FIRST place I go looking when I need to buy fishing tackle, and I could care less if he's got a physical store or not. He's been around for a long time, has great service, fast shipping, an excellent reputation, and good prices. 

I pay my bills online. I do my banking online. I talk to my fishing friends online. Why in the world would I want to get in my truck and drive to the local tackle store to buy a Penn reel?

Local tackle stores are for tourists...


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

Black Beard said:


> We, Penn UK, design and make new components in the UK for the standard US reels the better to suit our methods here - BB


Thanks. Now I understand. 

Next time you see Dave, yank him over in the corner and tell him that I'd much rather buy a magged 535 (from an online retailer in the U.S.) than I would be glueing washers in the U.S. model I just bought (from an online retailer in the U.S.). Unless, of course, Penn U.K. and Penn U.S. are in competition with each other...

There's a market for this stuff over here too.


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## CrawFish (Sep 23, 2003)

So what kind of fishing you do in your area? What kind of rigs, rods, reels, baits? I'm just curious. I'd love to catch my own baits also, but most of the time I can't just throw in a net a catch me some bunkers.


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## Ruedy (Oct 10, 2000)

Surf Fish said:


> ....America has some problems, but they didn't start in China. They started right here at home...
> 
> 
> I also just bought a new Penn reel. I don't know where it was made, China, the U.S., Hong Kong, Timbucktoo. I didn't buy it to read the box, I bought it to go fishing. I bought it because I associate the name "Penn" with a quality reel. If it is a quality reel, I'll go buy another one and recommend it to other people I know who fish. If it's not, I won't do either. I'm sure that Penn has been in business long enough to realize that I don't want a _Philadelphia_ reel, I want a _quality_ reel...


Yeah, Surf Fish. I agree with you. I associate Penn with quality also, and will continue to look to Penn first, for my fishing gear. Maybe I've been out of the loop and was not aware of the changes at Penn. I also did not look for a "Made in....." label on the box or the reel itself but there it was. Kinda surprised me, that's all.

Interesting thread here. I especially like the responses of Mr. Martin. To me, his second post sounds, not only encouraging, but exciting too!


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## seajay (Dec 18, 2005)

Great post Surf we in N.E. Fla. do it our way and with a cold beer. Sarge thankyou for setting those strit on morrals and values. BlackBeard you are still the Guru on Penn. Mr.Martin thankyou for a very infomative view on Penn. as they are still one of two of the best reels made and always my first choice,as I have been fishing with Penn. for 40+ years.


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## Lipyourown (May 11, 2005)

We are supposed to thrive on competition in a capitalistic society, after all Penn and Mercury wouldn't be such great products without Shimano and Yamaha (AND VICE VERSA) prodding us along...that said, I try to keep the $ in the U.S.


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## Smashed (Jul 1, 2005)

What is perhaps scewing our perception of the amount of Penn reels made in China is our surf fishing experience. We use spinning reels and tough, light baitcasters on our setups, and those are the reels which Penn now makes in China. Most of their offshore trolling reels and the 955-975 series of baitcasters are still made in the US. 


Ironically, only one major reel manufacturar that I know of makes 0 reels in China, and that is Shimano. (I'm not counting Van Staal, etc. as _major_ manufacturers.) Shimano makes their reels in Japan and Malaysia. One interesting trend you'll notice, though, is a lot more of the higher-end reels are made in Japan now. All of Shimano and Daiwa's high-end reels are made in Japan. Daiwa's lower-end reels are made in China and Korea.

Korea also has a growing market in the reel industry. One single company in Korea manufactures a majority of all reels for Bass Pro, Cabelas, Browning, Pflueger, and even some newer Abu Garcia's. That is why if you take a Bass Pro reel, a Cabelas reel, a Browning, and a Pflueger, and put them together, they all have similar components and frames.


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## DickDog (Jul 19, 2006)

*my 99cents worth*



Surf Fish said:


> Cashiers at Walmart doesn't teach values.
> 
> Mothers and fathers teach values.
> 
> ...


Your right...cashiers at walmart don't teach values they teach us if you buy two you get the third one free.
Perhaps you missed understood my statement about teaching kids value. when "your" kid breaks that 99cent rod and then ask him to work to pay it off. He'll then go on ebay and buy 300 rods from china. I agree parents need to be the teachers 1000%. Its not a matter of money but what it takes to be able to own things and the freedom that we have to buy the things we want even if they are from china. I prefer to not support our trade with china...i prefer to buy elsewhere even if it costs more.

In addition i'll only buya quality product as well whether it be online, or the local shop. and i'll search till i find what i want or i won't get it. It doesn't matter if its 99cents or 99dollars but its not coming from china. sorry. i wont compromise my principles.

Penn doesn't realize what "you" want until they can't sell it to you. If penn makes it in china...well u know.


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## rgking03 (Mar 20, 2005)

Surf Fish said:


> Why is that a problem? China doesn't mean the product is any different, it just means that the guy putting the product together doesn't belong to a union and doesn't make $41.50 an hour.


You Communist!!!


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

rgking03 said:


> You Communist!!!


Thank you.


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## SALTSHAKER (Dec 5, 2002)

*Penn*

I would like to say I had the pleasure of talking to Dave made possible by a very good friend of mine. We had a long conversation that mirrored what he said here. I also had the opportunity to tour the Penn site in Phila and was also impressed,not with the manufacture, but with the people that work there and have worked there for many years. 

We are all able to shop where we desire, I myself know what I want in the tackle shop and can get it easily without a line from the owner. But! When there is a question you can get an answer from them. After all none of know everything about everything. And the dealer is there... when you need something now and right now, and not delivered in two days... my 02
salt


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## USEF THE MAG (Jul 7, 2006)

*ok*



senatorreel said:


> I came across this string of posts and see that there is much speculation and very few facts.
> 
> I am the CEO of Penn and my father spent well over 40 years here. I grew up at Penn making reels manufacturing parts and have a great deal of love and respect for our history and hope for our future.
> 
> ...


Dave.... its great you would take time to respond to the posts.........now how about a 
975CS... (for field testing purposes only)....    

LOL..........im a tackle rep and know how everyone ask for the freebies and everyone is a 'field testing expert'. take care.........
(post was meant to be humerous)...... no bashing me   but PM for address for the reel...........


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## HuskyMD (May 19, 2000)

Black Beard said:


> The surest way to kill off a manufacturer is to allow his products to be sold by people with low or no overheads who sell at or below cost thus driving the prices down. Eventually the margin becomes un-sustainable and the manufacturer lays off workers and/or goes into liquidation.
> 
> Genuine retailers in the US work on low margins and try to provide a service and should be supported.


This thread has new meaning now given reports that Shakespeare has acquired Penn. 

Neil, I'm not following you here. I'm a business major and have an MBA in international business so I would think I should understand. If the manufacturer (Penn) sells the product for $X (let's say $20), the online shop won't sustain business unless it sells it for slightly more than X (well, some rip you off by charging 2X what s/h ought to be...). Either way Penn is getting paid $20 each, no matter what the online dealer sells it for. This will not make the manufacturer go out of business. 

Now, over time, if online sellers with little to no overhead continue to sell just above cost, the brick and mortar stores will have to lower their costs/prices or stop selling the product. This might eventually put them out of the business of selling the Penn product in question. However, this does not hurt Penn financially. Thanks to supply and demand, more online retailers who can compete with little overhead join the game. Or the brick and mortars Wal-Martize and negoatiate price breaks from Penn because they are buying so many at a time.

From a $ perspective, I don't think Penn should give a dang whether their products are bring sold primarily online or by brick and mortar stores. Penn should not care what the going rate is for it's products either. Penn should only care what they receive when distributing the product.

That said, there is one important factor here and this may be the REAL reason why Penn does care. Penn has a long-established network and authorized repair dealers in the US. Penn wants to maintain its reputation for quality and for customer service and probably sees this network as a necessity.

I don't see this network as being very important to some (such as those who will just buy the parts and fix it themself), but to the guy who buys the expensive offshore reels, he demands a place to take his $500 reel for repair and not to have to mail it in to get it fixed.

So, I understand why Penn might try to protect the brick and mortar stores it has a long-standing relationship with. But I don't buy the argument that online retailers sell at or below cost and this will put Penn out of business.


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## Black Beard (Jan 25, 2001)

I'm not sure I understand it now either LOL.

Okay, I just found the original, it was posted seven month ago! BB


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## USEF THE MAG (Jul 7, 2006)

selling product below msrp or mswp will cheapen the product and give it less perceived value......penn may still make $, but will hurt in the long run.........


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

Husky the thing that is lost in Cataloge type stores,be it box stores,online or cataloges. Is the loss of added value, showing someone the differnce between two products and why one is worth more to their application. The manufactor cost does not really matter hear, it is feature function and benifits that matter and that is what is lost modern business models. Boy have the schools have mislead us.


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

Digger said:


> Boy have the schools have mislead us.


Aren't the schools there to teach critical thinking skills and nurture the individual?










I sincerely hope that Skakespere is kinder to us consumers in their direction of Penn than they were with All Star . . . .


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## makoman (Jan 1, 2007)

Surf Fish said:


> Why is that a problem? China doesn't mean the product is any different, it just means that the guy putting the product together doesn't belong to a union and doesn't make $41.50 an hour.


I am in a union, and sir I do`t make anything close to 41.50......there goes another american job, how about ya NAFDA........


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## hengstthomas (Mar 11, 2006)

To me where a reel is made doesn't matter as long as it's what I want.
My opinion on Penn...I still use them but as a youngster I used the 420 and 430ss for freshwater and loved the reels so much I went and bought 2 of each.Years later 1 of them got crushed and when I went to replace the reel...well it just wasn't the same reel.They became a cheap version of what I had bought. I hate the plastic look and feel of these reels. Oh and dont ever buy a silver penn. After the bail spring broke for the 4th time I threw the reel away. I have had the good and bad but overall for customer service....Penn is on top !
Most of the time you get what you pay for ... sometimes you get beat.


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

if this is about "percieved" value/quality i can see penn doing what they do...you can get a BMW for 60k or a nissan with the same features for 30K...both are made well, but a BMW has a reputation...as for unions...they had their time...they started to give skilled workers a living wage and to keep them well fed and healthy(so they could work)...but the guy on the top needs to make more than the guy on the bottom so CEOs now make 10m+ per year and have have perks/options given worth much more...look at the gas companys...highest prices EVER along with the biggest profits EVER...I spent 10 long years in MI(union state) and have seen many companys go under when the couldn't come to terms with "the union"...and i have seen unions voted OUT...now lets go :fishing:


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## sinker man (Jun 16, 2006)

Ya'll whine all you want. When Shakespeare buys Shimano I'll be dead and gone.


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