# Reasons for Breaking off?



## Wtrdog (Jun 18, 2003)

hey all, 

first hope everyone is doing well and made it through Isabel.

anyway, I have been breaking off quite frequently lately. I've been going out casting every couple of days or so and I've been breaking off about 1 in 5 casts. I'm using a 6500c3, 50lb Powerpro main line, 50lb mono leader, 4oz weight and 11' Basspro rod. The first guide on the tip (?) top piece was mounted slighty crooked, I could get the guides more or less lined up. Other than the shock knot hitting the guide. (I bent it straight last time out, haven't got to cast since, nasty backlash) What could cause the break offs to happen? It usually breaks right at the knot on the mono side, last night it broke right before the knot, the mono was broke clean.


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## dcfishman (Dec 20, 2002)

*breaking off*

Hi wtr dog 
I too have had this problem so this is some of the things that have helped me. 1st thing is some times when the diameter of your main line is much smaller than your shock leader/wich is mostly the case you have to really pay attention to performing your cast your form means a lot the follow thrue is very important following the wait down with the tip of your rod makeing sure that the tip of the rod is not pointing up at any time i use to unconciously do this a lotit acts like a brake to the line flow / allso i dont know why but the line seems to like wraping itself around the line guids .steamline your knot tying as best you can if you feel the knot is constanly causing the problem this was something that i was having trouble with switch the tip top to a larger size /believe me a larger rod tip will help out a lot . just my 2 cents but these things did help me. for blow ups dont fill the spool as much and tighten the adjustment screw a little i allso throw a 5 oz. instead of 4 oz. it seams to pull the line off the spool much better.I hope these suggestions help out ,dont let yourself get frustrated i know it can be a bear when your reaching for distance -watch your form and keep on throwing. dcfishman


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## Wtrdog (Jun 18, 2003)

thanks for the info, I didn't make it out last night to see if straightening the bent guide made any difference, hopefully tonight. I lost a little line with the last blow up but it probably was for the best. I'm new to this so still learining, SurfMan and I go out casting a couple of days a week, but I definately need to get some instruction on the correct form. I consitently cast around 400' but I know it could be a lot better if I had the right form down.


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## PlankCaster (Oct 22, 2001)

wtrdog,
If you're using a mono to braid knot I would first be highly suspicious of the braid cutting into the mono when you tighten the knot down, thereby weakening it. What type of knot are you using? Also the bent tip top guide will cause big problems even if it is not the cause of the line breakage. Instead of bending it which will only weaken it and exacerbate your problem I would take it to a good local tackle shop and have it totally replaced. While you do this, consider possibly putting a tip top of a slightly higher diameter in the old ones place to accomodate for the shocker knot a little better. Just some thoughts and I hope they help.
Tight lines and popped riggers


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

if your using 50 ib p/p,why are you even using a mono shocker?
the shocker would be needed if you were using 20 lb p/p as your running line.try it without the mono and see if the problem goes away.


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## Wtrdog (Jun 18, 2003)

I took out the rod last night and the guide seemed to be the biggest factor. I wasn't getting any of the the shock knot slap and noise hitting the guides. The tip wasn't the guide that was the problem, it was the third guide from the reel, otherwise I would have just replaced it first. 
I'm using a shock knot because power pro doesn't stretch. SurfMan and I were out casting and tried without the leader just to see if it would work. And I think we got two casts that didn't break the braid. The braid just doesn't handle the initial force of a cast. The mono stretches some and absorbs some of the energy of the cast. I might switch to a taller tip though, the tip is lower by about a 1/4" than the next guide, same size just lower.

thanks for the info,


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## SurfMan (Jun 4, 2003)

*Why a shock leader and what type of Knot*

I can assit here a bit. As WtrDog stated, he and I go casting a couple of times a week.. and he usually beats me in distance by maybe 2 yards. So don't help, help me! LOL....

Q) Why A shock leader?
A) We found that if we did not use the shock leader the power pro on the initial force of the cast just before letting go of the spool would cause the line to dig isteslf through all of the spooled line and instantly stop the spool when casting... causing the loss of many weights. The shock leader helps stop this because the mono will not work itself down into the spool, not to slick and thin. Now, this may be becuase we did something wrong. Please feel free to advise.

Q) Were are bothing using the albright knot. The break is usually happening about 1/16 above the knot on the mono side. Wtrdog, correct if I am wrong. Also, I use the same knot and have not had the issue he has. My knot don't break (a little bragging I guess, JK)

After, straightening the guide it appeared alot better except when....... What made it break again? 
- Surfman


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## Wtrdog (Jun 18, 2003)

Yeah we use the same knot. Before fixing the guide, the last break was at the mono and the knot was still connected. I turned the brake up a little to prevent another blowup. When I broke it off last night I really tried to get into it and buried the braid into the spool and it broke off. Completely my fault, i would say technique more than anything.


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## LongRanger (Oct 4, 2000)

You should try using a J-Knot. It may help.

J-Knot


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## SurfMan (Jun 4, 2003)

*J-Knot*

A nice looking knot, but isn't it hard to tie with a long shock leader? 

By the way, does a longer shock leader decrease your casting distance? What is the preferred length for shock leaders? Using a Abu 6500 C3 and a 11' Okuma rod.
- Surfman


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## Wtrdog (Jun 18, 2003)

Hey SurfMan,

I just tried it, it isn't too bad to tie, we just have to have the leader precut instead of tying and spooling it up. It's not as quick as the Albright.


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## LongRanger (Oct 4, 2000)

Shockleader length = down the guides, five to eight times around the spool, then cut it to your preferred drop length. Some tournament casters use 12 wraps on the spool. I hope this helps.


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

i fish with a lot of hard throwing,long distance casters and none use a mono shocker.on my calcutta 400,i use straight 30 lb. p/p on a 12' lami rod and have no problems whatsoever.on my spinners,i use 20 lb.p/p witha 50 lb. p/p shocker tied with a uni
knot to uni knot.again,no problems with line digging in.you might be reeling in with too little tension.the tighter you spool it,the better it works.


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## SurfMan (Jun 4, 2003)

*Thanks FishBucket and LongRanger*

Fish:I actually thought that loose line may be the culprit, but was not sure. 

LongR:I have a lot more leader than that, use it to pull fish up the pier... maybe I'll cut back on the amount.

Thanks for all the info guys. This site is great!
-Surfman


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## Dyhard (Oct 24, 2002)

Try casting without the leader on 50#. When winding line back on the spool, guide the line back and forth rapidly to increase the angle that the line makes on the reel, of course if you're using one of those reels that have an automatic line guide this option is not possible. Also make more practice cast at a little less than full power all the while thinking about the flow of you and your gear. Make sure that your casting method allows the smooth build-up of power.


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## Wtrdog (Jun 18, 2003)

thanks for the info guys. I took the easy way out and took the rod back (it had a guide that was mounted off center). I had a 11' Catmaxx, and it had about 13 guides and 7 of them were all the size of the tip guide. I ended up getting a 12' Ocean Master. From what I can figure from Saturday at the Tank, I hit a lot of guides with the shock knot on the cast. I broke off a couple of times trying to just lob the cast out. The guides on this rod are a lot bigger and straight this should help. I also unwound my line and rewound it tighter, this definately helped, I guess I had a bunch of loose line from all the breakoffs. Anyone have any opinions on the OC rods? I got the 12' Casting rod 6-12oz. They are going to be on sale starting Wed, $40 off. Basspro also has the 10' 1-4oz and some spinning rods.


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## SurfMan (Jun 4, 2003)

*Opinion Of OC Rods*

Hey WDog,
Here an opinion , THEY SUCK! .... Just kidding LOL .
Jealousy reers its ugly head I guess. At least now you can throw as much weight as the big boys. hehehe
- Surfman


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## fish bucket (Dec 5, 2002)

not familiar with that brand but i know that any conventional rod with a 6-12 oz rating is a bear to throw.it'll take8 or 9 oz's just to load it.something in the 3-6 oz range would probably give you more distance and be much more fishable.


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## Wtrdog (Jun 18, 2003)

i'll let you know how it goes, i haven't got to try it out yet probably not till thurs. the rod a took back went to 5oz but was real soft, 4 n bait felt like the rod would snap in half. I tried 3oz but didn't seem to get the distance. probably all technique problems.


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