# Rookies, Reels, and More Distance Part I



## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

A lot of what we read here about equipment and distance casting is written by the guys who’ve been doing it for a long time. I thought some observations from a rookie might be helpful to some of the other rookies here. 

This summer I met a guy who uses conventional reels. He let me cast with his stuff a few times, and I was amazed to see that today’s casting reels were different than the ones I tried using years ago; you can actually cast with some of the new ones. One day after we were done fishing, we hit the tackle section of the local Walmart looking for some Gulp shrimp and they had an Abu 6500 CL3 on sale. So I bought it and a rod to go with it. By the time fall fishing season rolled around, I had decided to leave the spinning stuff in the garage and only use casting reels, to see if all the talk about more distance with conventional reels really applied to rookies like me, or was that talk only for the casting contest guys. Here’s some of what I learned:

When I was younger, Gorilla casting was my style. Throw stuff as HARD as I could. I popped off a bunch of shock leaders, broke a couple rods, sliced my index finger to ribbons, ripped the guides off a few surf rods, and luckily never killed anyone with all the unteathered sinkers I sent flying off to who knows where. I could always cast a little bit farther than the guys I fished with on the beach, and I caught a few fish. 

Now that I’m not younger any more, Gorilla casting with spinning gear has some things to offer me that it didn’t have when I was younger; along with broken shock leaders and a shredded index finger, it offers me sore shoulders, tired arms, and surf fishing that’s not near as much fun as it used to be. 

Like everybody else, I need (or maybe just want) more distance, but I also needed something that wasn’t as physically demanding. Casting equipment seemed like it may be the solution. 

Rods – I always thought the stiffer the better. If a surf rod was as stiff as a telephone pole, I’d buy it. When you cast like a Gorilla, you don’t use the rod – you use your arms, your shoulders, and your back. I’ve finally figured out that the idea behind a fishing rod is to load the rod and let it do as much of the work as possible. A very stiff rod requires a LOT more physical effort to load than a not so stiff one does. I’ve also learned that longer isn’t always better. Too long, again, requires more physical effort. If a rod I’m using is too long, I can’t cast as far as I could with a shorter one. I don’t need 15’ stiff rods anymore; I get more distance with a soft 10’ rod. 

Reels – today’s casting reels are light years better than when I was a young guy. If I can cast over a hundred yards with a casting reel (out of the box from the store), anybody can. One of the things I seem to sense when I read questions from rookies is fear; the fear of buying a conventional rod and reel, taking it to the beach, throwing it three times and then putting it in the closet with the line all tangled up and never using it again. I had the same fear, I figured what’s the sense of spending three or four hundred bucks on fishing gear I can’t use. So I attacked the problem from a logical, budget minded standpoint. Here’s some of the stuff I’ve tried along the way.

Penn Jigmaster. $10 at the local pawn shop. Cleaned it up, greased it, and it worked like new. Way too big and too heavy for me for fishing. I have never felt pain like the pain I felt in my right thumb the day I tried to stop a sinker in flight that was attached to my Jigmaster. The Jigmaster almost ended my quest for the perfect conventional reel before it had begun. 

Penn Squidder. $30 on Ebay. Much better than the Jigmaster. Smaller, but still a bit too big and too heavy for me. Adding a few bucks worth of magnets made it obviously much easier to cast. If I had to, I could surf fish with a Squidder. Main problem I have with it is it is that the retrieve is so painfully slow, I feel asleep a few times while I was winding in fish. The free spool lever on the side of the reel also wore a really nice hole in the side of my right index finger. A nice piece of history, maybe a great reel for an experienced caster, but not a great experience for a rookie like me. 

Penn 535 GS. $75 on Ebay, new in the box. Glued in a washer, stuck a couple magnets on the washer, and was amazed. With a couple days of tweaking the magnets, I could now toss lead off into the briny depths at distances I had never reached (with a conventional reel) before. Retrieve was so fast that it was a pleasure winding in a 5 oz pyramid sinker. The Squidder will never go fishing again. The 535 is one of my favorite reels now. I’ve got enough magnets in it so I can throw six ounces and no more seagull nests. 

Abu 6600 C5 Mag X. Cabelas, on sale for $79. Until yesterday, this was my go for the gold reel. Smooth. Has a level wind, so I learned shock leaders are a bad idea. On a 10’ rod, I can throw this reel as far, if not a little farther, then any spinning reel I have ever used. Scary when I look at the spool sometimes after I cast, because there doesn’t seem to be much line left to fight a fish. Not the best drag in the world, but it made it thru the first Tarpon I ever landed, so good enough.

Abu 6500 C3 CT Mag. Local tackle store, $154. Scary smooth. The first time I threw this reel, it felt like there wasn’t any line on it. Amazing. Shock leaders no problem, no level wind. This reel is so nice I hate to take it fishing because I don’t want to get it wet. Haven’t smoke tested it at the beach, but will be doing that next week.

Penn 525 Mag. Bass Pro, $150. Penn reels, to me anyway, don’t “feel” the same when you cast them as the Abu’s do. That “SMooooTH” feeling isn’t there; not that Penn’s feel bad, just they aren’t as smooth as the Abu’s. Yesterday I tried this reel on the same 10’ rod I’ve been using the 6600 Mag X on. Since I’m casting off the end of a pier, along a jetty, it’s easy to gauge relative distance of casts when comparing one rod or reel to another. The first time I casted the 525 on the ten foot rod, I don’t have a clue how far it went; I didn’t see the sinker hit the water. The second time I casted it, I figured out why I didn’t see it the first time – the sinker was landing about 25 yards farther away from the pier than I have ever landed a sinker before. I figure another 2 feet of rod on the beach should make the sinker go way past where I’ve ever seen it go with this reel. We now need a new target rock on the jetty, because the one I’ve been trying to reach for the last couple months is way too close with the 525 on a 10’ rod.

The Good News. The good news is that I really can cast a conventional farther than I can cast a spinner. The really good news is that it doesn’t require near as much effort in the Gorilla department. 

Continued in Part II....


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## Railroader (Apr 13, 2005)

Good Lord, I created a MONSTER....Call it payment for your showing me the ropes on Ft. Clinch flounder... 

I'm glad you are enjoying all your new toys, Jim!


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## ReelinRod (May 29, 2003)

I would like to congratulate you on finding a system that works for you. don't want you to think that I am jumping on you but I have some comments.



Surf Fish said:


> I was amazed to see that today’s casting reels were different than the ones I tried using years ago; you can actually cast with some of the new ones.


And I would venture a guess that the spinners you put away in your garage were less than "state of the art' too. The development of spinning tackle has undergone a much more dramatic advancement in the last 15 years than anything that's been done on the conventional side. With the advent of braded line and putting it on a distance engineered spinner, the "truth" regarding the casting superiority of conventional gear is relegated to "old wives tale" status (as far as practical fishing applications go).



Surf Fish said:


> When I was younger, Gorilla casting was my style. Throw stuff as HARD as I could.


The use of a refined casting motion serves one in casting all tackle . . . Using conventionals does not in and of itself give one a smooth and powerful delivery. It's just that you have discovered there is no allowance for sloppiness with conventionals . . . Snap cast the rod = dig out a backlash . . . 



Surf Fish said:


> Now that I’m not younger any more, Gorilla casting with spinning gear has some things to offer me that it didn’t have when I was younger; along with broken shock leaders and a shredded index finger, it offers me sore shoulders, tired arms, and surf fishing that’s not near as much fun as it used to be.


I find fighting fish to be much more tiring with conventional gear . . . Under strain, with the guides and reel on top the rod wants to roll over; to counter this you must grip it very tightly with the weak hand in usually a palm-up position. This is also a weaker grip for pumping the fish . . . It is all bicep and forearm. 

With spinning tackle the pump is done with your strong arm and the motion is like drawing a bow; the deltoid and back muscles are very much involved in the powerstroke.

Tackle choice is a very personal decision. You have chosen modern conventionals over old technology spinning tackle . . . I can assure you, If you do have a refined powerstroke and you tried a $160 Shimano Power Aero you'll be whistling a different tune.


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## Newsjeff (Jul 22, 2004)

Very nice post, Surf Fish.

Thanks.


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## Surf Fish (Dec 16, 2005)

Sgt_Slough said:


> I would like to congratulate you on finding a system that works for you. don't want you to think that I am jumping on you but I have some comments.


In my quest to regain lost distance, I tried a couple of the new "long cast" spinning reels, and a new rod or two, but didn't seem to gain much with them. I'm sure there is good equipment that I've never tried available. Last spring I started surf fishing a lot again, and surf fishing gets pretty frustrating when every time you cast the first thought that comes to your mind after the sinker hits the water is "Damn. What did I do wrong? I used to be able to cast farther than that..."

I agree on the fighting a fish on conventional vs. spinning tackle. I noticed the other day with a big fish on that the tip end of the rod wanted to "roll over" as you described. Since I've fished all these years with spinning stuff, it feels a bit strange with a fish on and the rod/reel hands switched. 

On the casting, I guess that smoother would be better with spinning stuff too. Matter of fact, I tried learning the OTG cast with my spinning stuff before the conventional project started - still popped off shock leaders about 1 in every 10 casts. For some reason, why I don't know, it just seemed the harder I tried with spinning gear, the worse it got. 

I used to read a lot about "muscle memory" as it applies to golf. Probably applies to casting too, and maybe since I've never had anybody around who could watch me cast and tell me what I'm doing right or wrong, the Gorilla I trained for a lot of years just automatically comes back when I pick up a spinning rod and try to cast it. Would have been nice had I learned to cast correctly in the first place, but unfortunatly I never did...

If the conventionals have forced me to cast smoother, that's all good. 

I don't want to spend the next two years on the beach learning how to cast correctly, I just want to go fishing. I'm happy with 100 to 125 yards, and I'm willing to quit at this point and soak bait. I have no asperations of ever reaching 200. I've reached a point where I can go surf fishing, sling the bait out as far as I used to sling it, and enjoy it without taking along a 600 yard spool of shock leader and a box of bandaids for my index finger, so I'm a happy camper 

Anyway, no jumping on taken Sarge. Like I said, there's no "perfect combo" answer for everybody, what works for one person may not work for somebody else. Like they say on TV. your mileage may vary.

Actually, I didn't chose conventional over spinning tackle. I chose a way to fish that works for me over a way to fish that I could no longer make work for me...


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## Tommy (Jan 24, 2001)

My perspective,

Fishing should be about having fun. There is no right or wrong when deciding between a spinner and a conventional reel. Choose what you’re comfortable with and you will find the whole experience more pleasurable. 

I fished spinners only for years. The thought of dealing with backlashes and blowups were just more than I wanted to deal with while fishing. I always had a bit of a fascination with conventional reels though. It was sort of like an exclusively club that you were either in or out of. Finally in 97’ by brother Charlie talked me into trying “the dark side”. It was not easy, I was using a Penn 545 (unmagged) and a 10’ fiberglass heavy action DRUM STICK rod. Lots of blowups learning how to control that beast…lol. That fall I purchased a 12’ G Loomis and a 7500 ct abu and fell in love with it. Smooth, controllable and really cast great. It was a tremendous upgrade in rod and reel quality for me and that made more difference in casting distance than the switch to a conventional reel alone.

Some very good points have been made in this thread.

I have cast on the field with SGT. He is a powerful guy with a very nice cast. He would cast a VERY long way with conventional or spinning gear. His preference is spinning and it works well for him. I do agree with Sarge, in practical fishing applications, a high quality spinning rod and reel loaded with braid will perform on par with a high quality conventional setup using mono. It really depends on what you like.

If a conventional rod is properly spined when wrapped the tendency to “roll” is really not a problem. If the spine is out, then it will try to roll.

I fish both. For lighter applications and for tossing metal or lures I prefer spinning gear. For bait fishing and throwing heavier payloads I go with conventional every time. A smooth style helps, and the snap cast doesn’t work well at all with conventional gear. A progressive build-up of power ending with a strong punch-pull is what you want.

I believe that conventional reels hold an advantage when field casting for maximum distance, but this thread is about fishing. Choose what you like, it’s all about having a good time while wetting a line.

Tommy


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## Samurai (Nov 24, 2005)

S.F.,Good thread you started here.I think the one thing I did when I first started was to try to buy distance.Here in Hawaii you basically learn by having someone take you under their wing and teach you.Alot of people try to buy the same gear and the "latest and greatest" to try to cast like their teacher.They should put more emphasis on their form instead of wasting it on gear that is probally more than they can handle.I have since had the opportunity to teach a newbie and seeing him catch fish with what I have taught him allmost feels better than when I catch a fish myself.I should have him read these threads you started.


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