# NPS publishes final rules for ORV management plan



## Alexy (Nov 1, 2010)

Read it and weep..... Cape hatteras 
http://ncbbaonline.com/news/343-january-20-nps-qthis-rule-designates-off-road.html


----------



## bronzbck1 (Jun 13, 2007)

Actually it is the answers to comments and changes to the plan. You got to read this garbage + the DEIS plan "F". I hope you have a day to read it !
P.S. this is already at another thread


----------



## OldBay (May 15, 2003)

Wow - I guess we all knew it was coming but that doesn't make it any easier to swallow.


----------



## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

Buying a yak to get around the a$$****s. I cannot say what I really want to but I cannot believe how the government is taking away from the people what was given to us by god. I say no more out of fear of the black helicopters coming


----------



## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

http://www.nps.gov/legacy/mission.html
wow, what a crock of smurf


----------



## OceanMaster (Dec 22, 2011)

Man I can't believe what's happening along the strand! There are times I wished Highway 12 was never paved... the strand left alone and open to those who are willing to roll the sand, the entire way 4x4 to the point. That would have weeded out many of the "save the strand" types quickly and in turn...the strand would have done what the strand has done since the beginning of time....she takes care of her own with Mother nature's involvement. 

I feel for you guys! I lived and worked in North Carolina - Elizabeth city as well as living on Chincoteague Island (Assateague is another political hot spot) for literally 7 years during the 80s. Back then, it was push and shove and I knew many of the tourists, the outsiders with political differences OUTSIDE AND AWAY FROM THE LOCAL SCENE, would roll back home and and speak for these areas (politically) without any regard to those that live and work there. 

I certainly wished North Carolina would adopt the same concept as Texas where, all land along the coast line is State property. Where the high tide mark lies.....during storm conditions which typically take it to the dunes here in Texas, is open to the public. Land owners can only lay claim up to the dunes, beyond the dunes, it's all public access, State Land, and access to the beach by 4x4's..it's only limited by private property to get beyond the dunes. So the State has access points, some of them many miles apart but, those with the right rig can roll the sand without anyone thumping their chest with limited access or private property demands. Since beach access rights from the State are liberal, the Feds know if they tried to pull what they are doing at OBX here....well let's just say our History speaks volumes....Remember the Alamo! We will fight like you wouldn't believe and our State access laws will play heck with the Feds plans. I think this is key for North Carolina? Not sure if it can be changed but...the State needs to seize the areas she owns along the Atlantic, and open up public access?

Padre Island National seashore will stay open from the standpoint......to enjoy the National Park you have to have a 4x4 to do so. There isn't a paved road behind the sand and dunes....it's all grasslands with a very primitive Laguna (Sound) beyond that. We will fight paving any of it cause we all know...the minute you pave to gain better access from the backside, and extend access further down the strand to the public, there are those in the public that want to control things even further in the sake of ecology. Leaving her alone and giving folks the right to roll the sand only, to access the strand, with foot traffic only beyond the dunes.....that's how Hatteras should have been. The best of both world's....wild and free with public access.....public access only by those that know how hard it is to roll the sand consistently, without getting stuck or saltwater soaked by those not in the know. 

What counter resources are there to fight this? Y'all need access to the point, and areas above and below the point.....isn't the stretch to the North that isn't available to 4x4 traffic enough to keep everyone happy? I just don't get it? Frustrating to me to say the least and I don't live there anymore, but a part of me will always be there. Too many offshore scenes where lives were lost and or saved when I lived there for the Coast Guard. 



Rob


----------



## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

Bob 

Sorry to say your Next on the Hit List...... You sound like guys coming into my old tackle shop ten years ago telling me that they will never close Cape Point, guess what it happened. After they are done moping up here its on to Padre, they all ready have their centers in place, Audubon, and the Turtle Center. So keep your eyes open, they (FEDS) have all ready stated Padre is next... Our Rules will be adopted in all National SeaShores.... Period Dot.... You've got about a year, before they come for your beach, just like they came for ours....What you'll find out about is APATHY, and that people talk a good game, but act very little... 

JAM


----------



## OceanMaster (Dec 22, 2011)

Yes JAM, they have been at it for some time and right now an Environmental Assessment is in play, to study vehicle use on the strand. The TEXAS OPEN BEACHES ACT keeps the rest of the Texas coastline open to vehicular traffic, so rolling the sand is pretty secure in all other areas of Texas. PINS is 62.5 miles long and about 66,000 acres. Above and below PINS is State controlled and vehicular access is open so surf fishing from the 4x4 and even two wheel drives (in many areas) will always be possible.....thats a good thing. What the Feds do know, we have a huge group of volunteers who spend literally a week every year cleaning up PINS. Tons upon tons of garbage and trash, carried by the currents from Mexico and below, wash up on PINS. The Feds don't clean the beach the entire way, most particularly the Big Shell area (current collector that dumps everything riding the Gulf Stream on the sand), the PINS locals do and the group that opposes closure (Citizens for Access and Conservation - CAC) have been taking care of PINS for decades. If the Feds do cut back access, they are shooting themselves in the foot. Course from what we are seeing now, we are all getting shot in the head by the Feds nationwide. Padre Island National Seashore is the longest stretch of undeveloped barrier island in the world, and access to the strand is extremely primitive. Taking away access means the Feds have a big chunk of sand they can't generate anymore revenue from to pay for it's operation. Folks down here will simply go to State controlled beaches and fish for the same species caught on PINS elsewhere but.....I know this wont go down without a tremendous fight. It's not a place where you can drive, park and walk over the dunes on nice little wooden dune cross-walks......she's left wild and free and the Feds, last time I checked, ran out of money a long time ago. It's going to be hard for them to justify owning a National Park, with reduced visitation and no access which in turn equates to no income from access fees, to keep it open and operating as is. Sure they can close driving access down and have 5 or 6 rangers enforce parking laws at the very top end but, the entire bottom end would just sit and build up trash from Mexico. Much of the Kemp Ridley turtle work is done by volunteers....PINS is only less than 1 percent of the Kemp Ridleys nesting turtle habitat world-wide and these recent nestings were done by volunteers as well as Feds, transplants with human involvement, to bring them back to PINS. Their key Gulf nesting areas are further south at Rancho Neuvo Mexico.

Fingers crossed things stay as is otherwise there will be a huge slew of PO'd folks down here. Come on down.....if they close PINS, we can roll Mustang Island and the Upper or Lower areas controlled by the State. It's all great surf fishing!


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

I agree with JAM... Texas won't do squat, except strain under the load, before caving.

Idealism never beats money. These people are well organized, and well funded. You aren't, unfortunately...


----------



## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

It's not just Texas that owns to the hi tide line, its all STATES...We had 62 miles, We had Beach clean ups, all I can tell u is YOUR NEXT....We had the same things in Place.. I am Not kidding you, our ranger staff here has stated PINS is Next....If ya ever see a Super Roll into Town Mike Murray, it will be all but over for ya... juat went throught he whole thing man, There is a whole Slew of PO'd folks here as well, but they DO NOT CARE....Just keep your eyes and ears open, cause thinking it can't happen to Texas, is your biggest mistake... 

JAM


----------



## spydermn (Apr 26, 2009)

Hey Jam, thought you werent going to talk about the NPSBS


----------



## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

Ole Tex pulled me in with the" It will Never Happen In TEXAS" 

I'll go back to my corner...

Sorry, it's almost a REFLEX Action at this POINT, 10 Years of EVERYDAY, makes it a REFLEX, I'm TRYIN....

JAM


----------



## OceanMaster (Dec 22, 2011)

> Idealism never beats money. These people are well organized, and well funded. You aren't, unfortunately...



I agree, they may or may not close PINs but a lot of the funding that is supporting the CURRENT Kemp Ridley sea turtle restoration program is not coming from Federal coffers, it's coming from many Texas & Mexican based organizations that some, represent Outdoor Conservation through proactive hunting and fishing programs. These same groups that fund the KEMP RIDLEY incubation program are the same groups that are trying to kill every feral hog running rampant down here as well. Serious outdoor groups with deep pockets, the State of Texas has a billion dollar hunting and fishing industry to protect, shutting off access to PINS is not at the top of their list and they will go at this with some serious coin. *There's a lot of money here....oil and gas on private lands with ownership from folks, that are very serious about trophy whitetail, trophy specks and everything outdoor related. Texas is not your normal State when it comes to hunting and fishing and access to areas within the State bounderies, when it takes away from our future generations to enjoy will raise a tremendous amount of counter money to fight....using oil and gas monies to do so.* *It's different down here.......well connected to the Hunting and Fishing way of life and much of the funding, is pumped right out of the ground to do so.*

Here's the list....the Feds like free money and free volunteers. Each turtle site has the eggs removed and hauled off to incubation facilities by many different folks..Federal, State and Volunteer groups. It's because of this and the access requirement needed for these volunteers to do their part, using their own personal vehicles to roll the sand to do the work, we may have a chance.

PINS PARTNERS

I'll roll the sand on Matagorda, I'll roll the sand on Mustang island, I'll roll the sand at the mouth of the Rio Grande...sure would hate to see PINS close but, there are other alternatives here to keep us fishing from the 4x4.


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

OceanMaster said:


> Serious outdoor groups with deep pockets, the State of Texas has a billion dollar hunting and fishing industry to protect, shutting off access to PINS is not at the top of their list and they will go at this with some serious coin. *There's a lot of money here.*


*

Hey, JAM... Wasn't it the Audubon Society that got you guys?

I am just certain that NC had absolutely NO hunting, fishing, AND tourism industry to protect. *


----------



## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

Yup Yup and the defenders of wildlife, the wwf, selc, and the list goes on

google agenda 21 tex its comming right for ya, once one place is closed they will move on to the next, eventualy it will all be closed... Not just to driving, closed to human access... You'll see.... Stop dragin me back in this, I'm tryin to be a good boy... Tex you went from it will never happen to throwin PINS under the bus... see how fast it happens..

JAM


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

JAM said:


> Stop dragin me back in this, I'm tryin to be a good boy...


Sorry, man... I can't help but try to temper bravado when it rages like a bad case of hemorrhoids. You just happened to be the Preparation H today.


----------



## JAM (Jul 22, 2002)

Just Kiddin glad I could help....

JAM:beer:


----------



## OceanMaster (Dec 22, 2011)

Not tossing PINS under the bus, if it falls it falls and apparently it fell there, it may fall here but, I'm rolling sand in the old 4x4 somewhere....we got a lot of coastline with public drive access.

If the Audubon Society society nailed OBX, fly way for waterfowl and Piping Plovers, it's not the same stance for the birders on PINS. The Kemp Ridleys, that's another story but the list of Supporting Members hyper-linked above, that help fund the PINS Kemp Ridley program are also stewards of Conservation through Hunting & Fishing. It's a mixed camp, Liberal tree huggers on one side with good old Texas\Mexico based outdoors types on the other with the turtle the only toe hold on issues at PINS.

We shall see....hope it doesn't go sideways but it may....and if it does....Texas and Texans have been known to fight bitterly to the end.


I'll step off my soap box.....here's some stats of why I'm hopeful here at home......we are serious about our Hunting and Fishing Y'all 

Nationally, *Texas is at the top of the pack. It is No. 1 in total hunters and anglers (2.6 million), money spent ($6.6 billion), jobs supported (106,000) and tax revenue generated ($1.3 billion). *Florida lands the trophy for the No. 2 spot. . . .

What states have the most hunters and anglers? Texas is No. 1 (2.6 million), Florida No. 2 (two million), California No. 3 (1.7 million), Ohio No. 4 (1.48 million) and Pennsylvania No. 5 (1.41 million).

What states are the big spenders? *Texas is No. 1 ($6.6 billion), *Florida No.2 ($4.8 billion), California No. 3 ($3.6 billion), Pennsylvania No. 4 ($3.5 billion) and Minnesota No. 5 ($3.4 billion).

Agenda 21 here....Texas is under 85% Private Land ownership....Ranching and Cattle with Oil and Gas. The black helicopters better be plentiful cause I have a feeling a lot of these old Cowboys ain't gonna go down without a fight 

We got a saying down here....SECEDE and it's been kicked around many times....especially here recently. 

Rob out.


----------



## solid7 (Dec 31, 2010)

OceanMaster said:


> If the Audubon Society society nailed OBX, fly way for waterfowl and Piping Plovers, it's not the same stance for the birders on PINS.


Nobody says it is, or will be. That was just an ends to a means...



OceanMaster said:


> the turtle the only toe hold on issues at PINS.


And that's probably the one that will get you. You'll know you are in trouble when your children/grandchildren start bringing home literature with a "call to action".



OceanMaster said:


> Texas and Texans have been known to fight bitterly to the end.


The key part of that phrase, is "the end". There always has, and always be one. Having a history of fighting doesn't preclude winning. But by all means, fight away...



OceanMaster said:


> We got a saying down here....SECEDE and it's been kicked around many times....especially here recently.


Oh, brother... 

Seriously, friend - roll yourself a good tight one, and feel all that angst drift away.


----------



## AbuMike (Sep 3, 2007)

I hope many lessons have been learned from the demise of the CHNSRA. Don't be fooled into thinking it can't happen to anyone anywhere. They will slither in like a snake and bite you when you least expect it. They will come in bearing gifts as your friend and protector then steal everything you have and pit friend against friend. Trust no one, believe nothing because you will lose.


----------



## DERFM (Jun 19, 2004)

> They will come in bearing gifts as your friend and protector then steal everything you have and pit friend against friend. Trust no one, believe nothing because you will lose.


and if someone with the last name "Murry" shows up , kiss your ass goodbye !!


----------

