# fish population



## ro-h2o (Feb 21, 2005)

where do we call the difference between commercial fishermen and recreational fishermen. I believe that all of us recreational fisherman has done there best to obey the law but a commercial fisherman can hurt the population more in one day than we will in two months of fishing every day. So where do you draw the line?


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## speckled fisher (Oct 30, 2005)

*no line to draw*

There is no line to draw, it all comes down to the fact that we both are doing the same thing. I believe that if you are a true angler you fish for fun but you also eat what you catch. A commercial fisherman took the job because he believes that it is fun and challenging and provides food for all those people who can not find the time nor the skill to fish. So what is you compliant about?


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## Freddrum (May 19, 2000)

Never heard of recs keeping undersized fish? Going out getting their limit, & then going back out again? Please. Lets concentrate our efforts on things like Omega Protien being allowed to wipe out an entire tier of the food chain (menhaden) that are so vital to the health of the bay, the Atlantic, and all the gamefish that we all like to fish for that are dependent on them as their main forage food. The little commercial guy works very hard for very little pay in one of the most if not the most dangerous professions there is and I for one think we as recs need to stop blaming them for the situation we find ourselves in. JMHO of course.


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## ro-h2o (Feb 21, 2005)

I know that we may cross the line some times but one netter will kill more fish in one day than we will kill combined in 2 months. If we really want to impact the laws of our catch then we need a fair shake. We can let a fish go and it will survive but a net will kill that same fish and all of the others in its pod.


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## ro-h2o (Feb 21, 2005)

*netters*

I now that netter keep small fish I have seen with own two eyes netters keeping very thing in there nets, from stripers on the James two Red Drum and Hammer head sharks in the MobJack Bay. My point is that we suffer steeper restrictions on fish that most rec. fishermen can even get to to catch a keeper and the netters can keep smaller fish and most time keep over there limit in size ans weight!


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## Freddrum (May 19, 2000)

It's all about the numbers my man, there are 10's of 1000's of recs out there every day fishing and catching, if not 100's of 1000's just in the bay and it's tributaries. Comms are REQUIRED by law to report their catch, recs are not. Therefore any so called "data" fisheries commisions get are bogus to say the least. Do you report all the fish you catch? Does anyone you know? C'mon, blaming the comms for all the problems with our fisheries is ludicrous. This argument has been played out over and over for years. If you really think watermen are getting all the fish and shellfish out of the water leaving none for the rest of us, put your money where your mouth is. Stop ordering shrimp and lobster and fish in restaurants and at your local supermarket and at your local seafood store and only eat what you catch yourself. Otherwise, thank a waterman for providing you with a meal. There's room for all of us on the water. And a netter might get more in one day than you can catch in 2 months (I Guess) but you're one man. Now multiply that by all the 1000's of other people fishing too. Kinda evens the playing field don't ya think?


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## Caught Myself (Sep 14, 2004)

Freddrum said:


> It's all about the numbers my man, there are 10's of 1000's of recs out there every day fishing and catching, if not 100's of 1000's just in the bay and it's tributaries.


No wonder I saw someone in my secret spot today!


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## Digger (Jan 4, 2000)

ro-h2o well we have to remember both the numbers game andd they get real scary. I agree a comm can take a large % of fish from a small area. But there relatively few Comm's and in many cases the rec fishiery causes more damage than the comm's. This needs to be looked at in a case by case basis.
Now illegal activity that you are describing is something that needs to be stopped. I also have this to say if you witnessed these actions and did not report them you are as guility as the person commiting the act. Do you need the number? Oh by the way it is easier to catch the comms breaking the law since the VMRC check's them frequently sometimes daily.


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## edgotbait (Sep 29, 2004)

i hold a commercial card and i have worked on net boat and they have a lot of laws that they have to go by sizes /amount of fish /kinds of fish
size of net /and how long you can keep it out. 
most but not all commercial guys follow the laws just like rec. fishermen . last year one boat set his net to close to LIP(300yards from any commercial pier) so i call vmrc . they came out pulled up his net and keep it and the fish in it then gave him a $2,000 fine (he was not happy)  
on fri. some guy left the pier with a 12" speckin a bucket still a live i told him it had to be 14 but he shruged me off and left.
vb pier a few days ago the MAN was out giving tickets to a lot of peopleon the pier for undersized fish so people are going to follow the rules or not 1 or the other


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## Cdog (Mar 18, 2002)

Thank god for most of the law abiding members of P&S. Sometimes rec use the outter killter data they have as reasons to take fish outta season and more than their limit. "Well th comms do so much damage" blah blah blah. Thank goodness for all th law abiding folks here on P&S.


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## RedskinFan228 (Jun 28, 2004)

Freddrum and Digger you both are so right. I heard you guys speaking on this very subject at the PSTCO meeting. The Rec fishermen do as much or more damage to the fisheries than the comm. it just goes unnoticed because there are no news reportes showing their illegal catch. Besides there is no "shock" value in showing one guy leaving the pier with an undersized speck, striper or flounder. but multiply that by 10000 day after day well you get the picture. But the news shows a net fishermen with 10000 under size fish and all hell breaks loose.

Just wish everyone would obey the law then there would be more fish for everyone. Just my 2 cents worth. 

sure wish had ti check all coolers for under size fish before you leave the pier and the authority to write tickets when they find you in possession of one. At least that would be a start.


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## rattler (Jul 3, 2004)

i see alot of fish cops arond this ear  ...maybe all those cals ad emails i sent helped...


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## flathead (Dec 18, 2003)

> I have seen with own two eyes netters keeping very thing in there nets, from stripers on the James two Red Drum and Hammer head sharks in the MobJack Bay.


If these were illegal nettings in your area and you didn't make the call,then I'm with Digger.

Here's the way I look at it.We have a system of government that,although not perfect,is the best that man on this planet has ever devised.Recs and Comms have to operate under laws and regulations created by that government.Those who violate those laws should be reported.And,if we have a problem with those who run that government we can and should,vote them out.And,we also have the opportunity to email,write,or phone those government officials with any objections we might have with that government,its laws and regulations,or those who are empowered to enforce those laws and regulations.

I can assure you,that any debate regarding the damage done to fisheries by either recs or comms will not be determined on an Internet fishing board.It will be determined in public meetings and at ballot boxes.


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

There's no question that factory operations like Omega have wiped out huge populations of certain species.

That said, the impact on many species is almost entirely from recreationals--1 netter taking 1,000 fish is nothing in comparison to 5,000 anglers taking 2 fish. Don't kid yourself--we all have a collective impact on fish populations, even if you only go home with only a few of them.

All we can do is support the fisheries biologists and follow the limits. If you want to be heard, attend public meetings.


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## Hawk (Feb 19, 2004)

*Right on FH!*

The comms. always get the blame.
There's good ones and bad ones just like RECS!
You need to look at the BIG picture.
Regulations are set, right or wrong, and we ALL are supposed to follow them. Like it or not.
It's all about the money and votes.
Water quality might have a little to do with it too.


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## jerseysalt (Jul 8, 2005)

*netters*

well the netters have taken all the fish ....the rec guys spend the bucks......what is with the by catch....lots of money for the netters....put them all on welfare....us rec guys spend the money that supports lots of off season towns...
if a guy takes his fam to the beach and surf fishes or head boats, charters....and catches a nice fish he will be back and spend the money.......i have been on a long liner dam it is a shame.....sharks, turtles, and by catch...why is the striper back in jersey, cant sell them.....jerz out...........sorry for the rant..my 02 cents..


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## chipotle (Nov 24, 2005)

*quote from outdoor life*

may 1993 the redfish's popularity burgeoned soon after Cajun chef Paul Prudhomme opened his now famous La kitchen restuarnt in 1979. chef pauls blacked REDFISH platter was the hottest thing item to come out of cresant city since Dixie land parade.prudommes spicy dish swept the nations chic dinners and transformed reds from second rate seafood to a vitial phenomenon. Usinging spotter planes, purse sieners bagged 20,000 pound schools of spawners at a time haul. inshore netters coarralled immense swarms of juvenile reds in knee deep water. by the mid 1980s there was little left of entire age classes in many potions of the reds range.


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## ASK4Fish (May 4, 2005)

I recreationally gillnet from the beach on occasion with 2 150' gillnets, all legally tagged, regestered etc. but i don't leave it sit out there for days at a time and let numerous amounts of fish be captured in it and left to die. I check it frequently while it is set and release any undersized fish before it sufficates. Also if i cannot safely remove the fish i will cut my own net in order to free the fish. I get plenty of out-of-season rocks in the summer and a lot are very large, but i take the time to safely remove them, revive, and make sure they swim off into deeper and cooler water. its not easy, but if i dont do it, i worry about my own sucess with Rod&reel in that same area. and i NEVER keep too many or undersized fish, gillnet or not.


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## flathead (Dec 18, 2003)

quote from outdoor life
may 1993 the redfish's popularity burgeoned soon after Cajun chef Paul Prudhomme opened his now famous La kitchen restuarnt in 1979. chef pauls blacked REDFISH platter was the hottest thing item to come out of cresant city since Dixie land parade.prudommes spicy dish swept the nations chic dinners and transformed reds from second rate seafood to a vitial phenomenon. Usinging spotter planes, purse sieners bagged 20,000 pound schools of spawners at a time haul. inshore netters coarralled immense swarms of juvenile reds in knee deep water. by the mid 1980s there was little left of entire age classes in many potions of the reds range.

Aw,C'mon now  Are we supposed to believe that Outdoor Life printed that with at least 20 grammatical errors in it ?

While there were abuses attributed to Prudomme's dish they were corrected by legislation.That's the way it's supposed to work if we all do our part.Gulf Coast residents did theirs and now the redfish fishery from Texas to Florida is now arguably the best it has ever been.I had a friend take a recent trip to Florida's Gulf Coast and he got tired of catching reds with his rod so he captured another hundred or so on film,chasing lures no less.


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## GotchaMack (Jun 16, 2004)

....and the thread is over a month old.....


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

First when it comes to harvesting fish both recreational and commercial fishermen are in it together. For instance in VA the striped bass quota is spit 50:50, croaker are 2:1 or 3:1 commercial to rec. Speckled trout and Tautog are more like 4:1 recreational to commercial. . . . The difference is that there are 3,000 registered commercial watermen in VA and 140,000 licensed recreational fishermen.

ASK4Fish posted On the nets "I recreationally gillnet from the beach on occasion with 2 150' gillnets, all legally tagged, regestered etc " 

I would hope that you had a buddy for the second net as the law states: 

4 VAC 20-670-20-C. No person shall be issued more than one recreational gill net license, more than one recreational crab pot license, more than one crab trap license, nor more than one recreational eel pot license.

Tom


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## ASK4Fish (May 4, 2005)

Tom Powers said:


> I would hope that you had a buddy for the second net as the law states:
> 
> 4 VAC 20-670-20-C. No person shall be issued more than one recreational gill net license, more than one recreational crab pot license, more than one crab trap license, nor more than one recreational eel pot license.
> 
> Tom



as they are two gillnet sections that attach to make 1 300' net it is perfectly legal...believe me i've been called on many times in the past few years, one guy even telling me that it is against the law for ANYONE to gillnet in VA...the sections attach and make 1 300' net and that is how the law reads. one time they even brought out a VA dep o' G&IF boat out to measure, and i was perfectly legal. In fact the measurement of my 2 150' sections is a rough estimate, as they are actually closer to 120'...


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## Tom Powers (Aug 2, 2001)

Good for you for knowing and following the rules.

Tom


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## Flyersfan (Dec 5, 2003)

I look at it like this once companies like Omega get done destroying the food chain, then the commercial guys will find that going out in the bay is not profitable and is not cost effective, especially with the cost of fuel. If their numbers drop off, like say other workers in the U.S. they will be forced to make a living some other way.
If the fish aren't there people won't go out on the head boats and they will start to die off, and when this natural cycle occurs, because I hate to say the bay has limits, and nature will take it's course and it might start in the wallets of commerical fisherman. Unlike states like Florida 
other states on the East coast do a piss poor job of marine management. Va. takes my money every year for a fishing license and I don't know why I buy one when they don't protect the very
thing they are taking my money for....eielegates in support of Omega....
Nature will take it's course and when the Menhaden are gone so goes Omega unless they start pressing croaker....if there's cash in it....


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## sand flea (Oct 24, 1999)

"Recreational gillnetting." Forgive me, but something about that phrase just sounds messed up. Sounds like "recreational clearcutting" or "sport strip mining".

I have no problem with commercial fishermen who stay within the law. But let's not call netting a sport. It's going after meat and it's indiscriminate in what it catches.


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## ASK4Fish (May 4, 2005)

sand flea
I have no problem with commercial fishermen who stay within the law. But let's not call netting a sport. It's going after meat and it's indiscriminate in what it catches.[/QUOTE said:


> well let me say this in defense of myself...as i said i release all by catch if at all possible...in fact it is against the law for me to have, in my possession any fish that is regulated by an annual catch quota...this is done to protect the commercial fisherman's resource as it is their way of making money...also, i very seldomly catch species that fall within that category, but when i do it is usually with a specimen that is large enough that the net (with only a 3" stretched mesh) does little damage to the fish. most of the time it is as simple as having a fin slightly damaged. even when very small rockfish are captured (we call them torpedoes when we catch them in the nets) we simply relieve the pressure that is around the fish and slide them rite through...i have also stated that if inorder to save an unwanted fish's life, i'd rather cut my own net than kill the specimen.
> 
> also, i never stated that i do it for sport...i save that for the rod&reel.


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## RACN35 (Oct 17, 2004)

so if your within the law,why even bring it up to begin with ? and if you hook n line fish in the same area why the net ? and dont say bait cause i for one and a few 100 others will not buy into that reason. i realize your young, and stuff like that intreages boys. been there done that- firecrackers,baby birds,torpintine,cats,bb guns, craw dads......what do you do with whatever you catch in the net that you do keep ?


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## ASK4Fish (May 4, 2005)

EAT IT! i get the feeling that all of you see me as going out there just to watch these fish die...


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## RACN35 (Oct 17, 2004)

ok then- waste not want not !! even if you throw a cast net and fill a bucket to till in with tomatoe plants they are not wasted.....some fish i will not eat.... *( this will open a can of worms )* spot and croaker are 2 of my favorites.....for the GARDEN. but they are not wasted....just old days- plant fish and corn together.


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