# All north carolina anglers



## herb

Most know all too well how atrocious North Carolina's inshore fishing has been over the last 5 years compared to how it was just a decade ago. Every inshore gamefish is in terrible shape compared to years past , however , flounder have taken the biggest hit by far.

The overwhelming majority of anglers who have been fishing Carolina's inshore waters over the years all agree that the new regs are laughable and are far too little FAR TOO LATE .

Of course the commercials continue to say everything's great but most know this is not even remotely close to being accurate . North Carolina is the only State that still allows unrestricted gill netting and trawling in all inshore fish nursery area zones . 

Enough is enough folks , when i fish other Atlantic Coastal States the fishing is vastly superior to North Carolina's in every way , the fishing these days in N.C is the worst i have ever seen by far in my lifetime and i am not a spring chicken.

Point of this post is to get people to start making noise and do what Capt.Charlie Schoonmaker (recreational fishing alliance of N.C ) is requesting people do .

He told me it will take a barrage of relentless e mails and letters to N.Carolina's Congressmen and Senators complaining about how bad it is , it's time to band together and really let them have it , let your voice be heard .

The commercials decided to do absolutely nothing 8 years ago the last time a big meeting was held about what to do about the flounder situation .

Two fisheries biologist presented just how bad of shape the flounder were in back then , well the commercials are now trying to say there is still no problem at all . Anybody with an I.Q equivalent to a garden vegetable knows this is not true , these people should be jailed for what they continue to get away with.

N.Carolina's netter's continue to cull fish like they have all along , google( N.C commercial fisherman culling fish to get an idea just how disgraceful this practice is) and your jaw will drop .

There are countless dead sea turtles, Otter's , sea birds and not targeted fish species of every kind scattered throughout N.Carolina's waterways , i get reports from fishing guides all over N.C who see it constantly and a quick "google" search will show pics of that as well .

Every other State has long banned gill nets throughout their waterways , this State allows the devastation to continue.

The below is from Mr. Schoonmaker of "Coastal Angler" magazine. He is also as baffled as i am about the cluelessness or should i say lack of interest by so many N.C anglers , whats going on is beyond comprehension and every angler should start speaking out with authority about it.

The honest fishing guides know it , Mr. Schoonmeker knows it , the MFC scientist that studied it in depth a decade ago know it , they said it was in terrible shape a decade ago and i can say with absolute certainty it's much worse now but the netter's clearly just don't give a damn .

Inshore gill netting of North Carolina's inshore waterways and fish nursery zones MUST STOP .


----------



## ncdead

While I don't fish other states salt water other than Florida, which is great BTW, I agree with what you are saying about NC. waters. We used to go to the outer banks numerous times a year up until roughly ten years ago but I gave up for the most part. I go once a year now and that's to fish offshore in October. Last year about a half dozen of us fished the surf and Oregon inlet and caught one keeper flounder. It's pathetic. I can spend a whole weekend there and not catch as many fish as I can in the family's farm pond over the course of about two hours. And I'm not a novice fisherman.


----------



## Garboman

herb said:


> Most know all too well how atrocious North Carolina's inshore fishing has been over the last 5 years compared to how it was just a decade ago. Every inshore gamefish is in terrible shape compared to years past , however , flounder have taken the biggest hit by far.
> 
> The overwhelming majority of anglers who have been fishing Carolina's inshore waters over the years all agree that the new regs are laughable and are far too little FAR TOO LATE .
> 
> Of course the commercials continue to say everything's great but most know this is not even remotely close to being accurate . North Carolina is the only State that still allows unrestricted gill netting and trawling in all inshore fish nursery area zones .
> 
> Enough is enough folks , when i fish other Atlantic Coastal States the fishing is vastly superior to North Carolina's in every way , the fishing these days in N.C is the worst i have ever seen by far in my lifetime and i am not a spring chicken.
> 
> Point of this post is to get people to start making noise and do what Capt.Charlie Schoonmaker (recreational fishing alliance of N.C ) is requesting people do .
> 
> He told me it will take a barrage of relentless e mails and letters to N.Carolina's Congressmen and Senators complaining about how bad it is , it's time to band together and really let them have it , let your voice be heard .
> 
> The commercials decided to do absolutely nothing 8 years ago the last time a big meeting was held about what to do about the flounder situation .
> 
> Two fisheries biologist presented just how bad of shape the flounder were in back then , well the commercials are now trying to say there is still no problem at all . Anybody with an I.Q equivalent to a garden vegetable knows this is not true , these people should be jailed for what they continue to get away with.
> 
> N.Carolina's netter's continue to cull fish like they have all along , google( N.C commercial fisherman culling fish to get an idea just how disgraceful this practice is) and your jaw will drop .
> 
> There are countless dead sea turtles, Otter's , sea birds and not targeted fish species of every kind scattered throughout N.Carolina's waterways , i get reports from fishing guides all over N.C who see it constantly and a quick "google" search will show pics of that as well .
> 
> Every other State has long banned gill nets throughout their waterways , this State allows the devastation to continue.
> 
> The below is from Mr. Schoonmaker of "Coastal Angler" magazine. He is also as baffled as i am about the cluelessness or should i say lack of interest by so many N.C anglers , whats going on is beyond comprehension and every angler should start speaking out with authority about it.
> 
> The honest fishing guides know it , Mr. Schoonmeker knows it , the MFC scientist that studied it in depth a decade ago know it , they said it was in terrible shape a decade ago and i can say with absolute certainty it's much worse now but the netter's clearly just don't give a damn .
> 
> Inshore gill netting of North Carolina's inshore waterways and fish nursery zones MUST STOP .


The devastation comes from everyone...as in everyone. Every single septic tank leeching back in the ocean, every single hog farm upstream leaking hog waste into the rivers, every chicken farm leeching into the Chesapeake, 50 million toilets flushing every five minutes.

Perhaps the honest fishing guides should give up and become conservationists.

They are all ready restricting flounder netting, perhaps the commercials should all become conservationists. One of my favorite Commercial fishermen in Rodanthe wishes life was as it was before the Bonner Bridge let the Tourists loose on Hatteras.
People who do not fish recreational, should not be permitted to eat fish? Is that what you are saying? 

Most Tourists are too lazy to get up at dawn to fish when the fish are feeding, perhaps they should quit and become conservationists. 

Perhaps you should do your part and become a conservationist and stay off of Hatteras, half the fishing guides on Hatteras are from commercial fishing families, they learned it was more profitable to fish the Tourists, are they honest? What is the definition of a dishonest fishing guide?

Perhaps South Carolina fishing should be banned, cause it is interrupting the flow of Cobia, to the honest NC fishing guides.

Perhaps you should fish harder and stay in SC.


----------



## jay b

The good old Comm. vs. Rec. argument will never be solved the way each side wants it to be.

Is there truth that large mesh gill nets are harmful to other species in the sounds, yeah probably. They're used all the way up to the top of the Currituck and Albemarle to the state line and I see them all the time when I get lucky enough to help a Comm. Crabber that I know who works those areas. They don't have a very high opinion of the netters either but that's for different reasons that concern the by-catch of crabs they catch.

Didn't even mention the by-catch of Shrimp trawls in the sounds during the rant ??

The pollution of the Chesapeake Bay that goes between the Reduction business, those that harvest Oysters and the polluters of the Bay is a whole nother argument but is along the same line in that they both speak to sharing resources. I'll just say that I'm glad the Federal gub-mint held up the Clean Water Act.


----------



## jay b

[email protected] fat fingers


----------



## surffshr

Commercial fishing is not just the guy fishing it boats, nets, engines, tools, and everything else you can think of that is needed to keep a industry alive.
North Carolina is steeped in in the Commercial fishing tradition. The whole process is set up to keep it as profitable as possible. I do believe that in of itself such a tradition is not a bad thing. But with so many good fisherman with modern technology at their disposal a fishery is too easily damaged. Only When a fishery is no longer profitable will some attention may be given to it. I like North Carolina, but their fishing regulations compared to other states speaks for itself. This particular fishing site has some very outspoken local guys that are pro N.C. commercial fishing. But hey I might be the same if it was my neighbor that was being ragged.


----------



## enoman

from a nc guy i appreciate your concerns and you are exactly right. in my area i fish from jacksonville nc to little river sc. the closer i get to sc, the better the catch. now, if i want to catch keeper flonders i go to little river or tubbs inlet. by the way, i mainly fish from my boat, but always find time for surf fishing. i dont see many netters in the waterways here. but at night you can go to any of the ramps and see the lots full. most of the giggers there are selling fish, with commercial license, not to many recreational giggers. i have seen boats come in with lots of flouder, all season long. it has to be hurting the flounder population as many as are gigged everynight all up and down our coast. yes we have plenty of the whitings and croakers, as well as trout and drum, but not much flounder.


----------



## letmefish

So let me make sure I'm understanding this situation.

Someone comes onto this forum and makes a post expressing his concern about a big issue that he is learning about, and some of you just talk smack and basically tell the guy to mind his own business and stay in SC?? Wow, that's rich! So your responses range from "it's everyone's fault", "ya can't stop it so why bother" to "maybe you should stay in SC".

So if most people are peeing in the water while swimming at the beach, then we should just allow large corporations to dump waste into our rivers? I mean after all, the swimmers at the beach are peeing in the water so why not. It's only fair right? Of course not. 

Ya know often times when a man is exposed to something new that is shocking it takes a while for him to settle down and absorb what he as seen and learned, and then to mellow out. Maybe Herb is not ready to bury his head in the sand and pretend he didn't see what he saw like the rest of ya.

Ya know Franc White "The Southern Sportsman" said this was going to become a major problem, and he said it 30 or more years ago.

I suppose when all you "brilliant" fisherman catch up the last remaining fish, then you'll decide it's time to take some sort of action. Only then it'll be to late. The answer can never be "do nothing". A "Tradition" should never trump the depletion of a natural resource. If Commercial fishing were not as profitable as it is, those "traditions" would be tossed in the trash so quickly it'll make your head spin. Tradition has nothing to do with it, it's about the money. If all the other coastal states have banned gill netting and shrimp trawling in inshore waters, and they have seen improvements from it then maybe, just maybe there is some merit to it.

Tradition my ass, if there wasn't big money in it, that "tradition" would have been abandoned decades ago.

Come on guys, if someone from another state is showing concern for the 2nd largest estuary in the country, we should say thanks for noticing. Not telling him to hush and put his head in the sand.


----------



## Garboman

letmefish said:


> So let me make sure I'm understanding this situation.
> 
> Someone comes onto this forum and makes a post expressing his concern about a big issue that he is learning about, and some of you just talk smack and basically tell the guy to mind his own business and stay in SC?? Wow, that's rich! So your responses range from "it's everyone's fault", "ya can't stop it so why bother" to "maybe you should stay in SC".
> 
> So if most people are peeing in the water while swimming at the beach, then we should just allow large corporations to dump waste into our rivers? I mean after all, the swimmers at the beach are peeing in the water so why not. It's only fair right? Of course not.
> 
> Ya know often times when a man is exposed to something new that is shocking it takes a while for him to settle down and absorb what he as seen and learned, and then to mellow out. Maybe Herb is not ready to bury his head in the sand and pretend he didn't see what he saw like the rest of ya.
> 
> Ya know Franc White "The Southern Sportsman" said this was going to become a major problem, and he said it 30 or more years ago.
> 
> I suppose when all you "brilliant" fisherman catch up the last remaining fish, then you'll decide it's time to take some sort of action. Only then it'll be to late. The answer can never be "do nothing". A "Tradition" should never trump the depletion of a natural resource. If Commercial fishing were not as profitable as it is, those "traditions" would be tossed in the trash so quickly it'll make your head spin. Tradition has nothing to do with it, it's about the money. If all the other coastal states have banned gill netting and shrimp trawling in inshore waters, and they have seen improvements from it then maybe, just maybe there is some merit to it.
> 
> Tradition my ass, if there wasn't big money in it, that "tradition" would have been abandoned decades ago.
> 
> Come on guys, if someone from another state is showing concern for the 2nd largest estuary in the country, we should say thanks for noticing. Not telling him to hush and put his head in the sand.


Ok Thanks good job Herb, nice post makes a lot of sense. 

Most of the quotes you pasted come from me. Thank you for quoting me, it shows my statements have an effect. I am turning 62 this month, I started fishing the OBX in 1966 when perhaps a few thousand people came to fish.

I think it is up to 2 million visitors a year now, some fish, some do not.

There is probably a grand total of less than 100 commercial fisherman working on the OBX at this time and they are not full time, they do not fish the winters anymore much, they just kind of get by 

Thank you for your viewpoint.

I do not know Frank White of Southern Sportsman, is Frank White a fisherman?

If fishing is so much better in other States that banned Commercial netting why are you not fishing there?


----------



## Garboman

Garboman said:


> Ok Thanks good job Herb, nice post makes a lot of sense.
> 
> Most of the quotes you pasted come from me. Thank you for quoting me, it shows my statements have an effect. I am turning 62 this month, I started fishing the OBX in 1966 when perhaps a few thousand people came to fish.
> 
> I think it is up to 2 million visitors a year now, some fish, some do not.
> 
> There is probably a grand total of less than 100 commercial fisherman working on the OBX at this time and they are not full time, they do not fish the winters anymore much, they just kind of get by
> 
> Thank you for your viewpoint.
> 
> I do not know Frank White of Southern Sportsman, is Frank White a fisherman?
> 
> If fishing is so much better in other States that banned Commercial netting why are you not fishing there?


And just to make sure you are understanding this correctly I will support the natives of Hatteras over Tourists from other States, Tourists from the same State, Tourists from other Countries, Fishermen that I do not know, Fishermen that never fished with me, pretty much most of the 2 million visitors a year mean less to me than a couple of hardscrabble Fishing Families that have lived on Hatteras for the last four hundred years.

Funny thing about Hatteras is that all the people that live full or part time there seldom have a bad word in private or in public about their commercial fishing neighbors, the Islanders accept the tradition, it is only outsiders who denounce it.

I view it as Hatteras is "Their" Island and the rest of us are just visitors.

So there we have it diametrically opposed viewpoints one put forth by a "Brilliant" fisherman which would be me, and an outsider which would be you.

You should read the book "The Finest Kind" to get another perspective.


----------



## RocknReds

The culture on the OBX is commercial. I was at church where the minister prayed for the government to relax the regulations so the commercial fishermen could get more fish.


----------



## surffshr

2014-2015 N.C. accidentally caught and sold red drum. 

"The N.C. commercial red drum fishery is classified as a by-catch fishery to allow netters to keep and sell reds caught in gill nets that are set to target other species. The daily catch limit of 10 fish is supposed to allow a few drum caught incidentally to be kept and sold, but not enough to make reds a targeted species. The by-catch limit began at five, was raised to seven and then raised again to the current limit of 10. Among other things, that number will likely be re-examined."

"NCDMF announced on April 14 that the commercial fishery will be closed until at least Sept. 1 because it estimated that netters had caught 261,000 pounds, 11,000 more than the allowable quota." ( This was the 2014 season.)


----------



## ez2cdave

RocknReds said:


> I was at church where the minister prayed for the government to relax the regulations so the commercial fishermen could get more fish.


Seriously ?


----------



## ncdead

Letmefish, I'm happy to hear the name Franc White again....he and his dog Fracus were a big part of my childhood.....the zebra striped airplane. My brother and I would watch him on Sunday mornings before church every weekend in Virginia. Thanks for that....glad someone else remembers. He had a great show...wild kingdom too....I was very young and was puzzled at how Marlin Perkins could be out in the field one minute in his outdoor getup and the next minute be back in the studio in a suit and tie. Didn't get the concept of editing at the time....lol.


----------



## herb

Finally made it back here and i'm glad i did , folks , please do not make the mistake of thinking i don't know all about what it used to be like many years ago and how it currently is now , i was one of the first residents on Ocean Isle Beach long before many commenting i bet.

I know exactly whats going on and what has been going on for years and this State has by far, the worst fishery management issues of any State on the Atlantic coast by far . I know all too well about the mindset of many long time North Carolinians and this thread is already filled with pro commercial comments already , nobody is fooling anybody .

Try as you might but if you think i am one to get intimidated by pro commercial die hard's think again, this continued abomination of being allowed to gill net and trawl in inshore fish nursery areas is going to be banned permanently and it's coming soon . 

Do any of you die hards think all the commercials in other States agreed to the banning of inshore gill nets when their States said enough was enough , it's "basic common sense" to keep those nets out of inshore waters .

Hopefully with the recent MFC audit and finding you guys did not live up to the minimums of the 10% observer program your net days will be over with . Brilliant move to decide an audit would be a good idea.



I am sure some of you have seen remarks from a very well known long time N.C commercial fisherman, he came to his senses , most commercials don't have a clue or they just don't give a damn .




> I’m for commercial fishing,” he said. “I was born into it. But we’ve lost the conservation part and aren’t putting anything back. The recreational guys have backed down and backed down, going with the flow. But the commercial guys never back down; they want more and more.
> 
> “No one’s in the middle for the poor fish.”
> 
> Brown said he wishes his commercial fishing compadres had more concern for the resource and not immediate monetary gains.


----------



## Garboman

herb said:


> Finally made it back here and i'm glad i did , folks , please do not make the mistake of thinking i don't know all about what it used to be like many years ago and how it currently is now , i was one of the first residents on Ocean Isle Beach long before many commenting i bet.
> 
> I know exactly whats going on and what has been going on for years and this State has by far, the worst fishery management issues of any State on the Atlantic coast by far . I know all too well about the mindset of many long time North Carolinians and this thread is already filled with pro commercial comments already , nobody is fooling anybody .
> 
> Try as you might but if you think i am one to get intimidated by pro commercial die hard's think again, this continued abomination of being allowed to gill net and trawl in inshore fish nursery areas is going to be banned permanently and it's coming soon .
> 
> Do any of you die hards think all the commercials in other States agreed to the banning of inshore gill nets when their States said enough was enough , it's "basic common sense" to keep those nets out of inshore waters .
> 
> Hopefully with the recent MFC audit and finding you guys did not live up to the minimums of the 10% observer program your net days will be over with . Brilliant move to decide an audit would be a good idea.
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure some of you have seen remarks from a very well known long time N.C commercial fisherman, he came to his senses , most commercials don't have a clue or they just don't give a damn .


No one is trying to intimidate you Herb, no one knows who or what you are or what you stand for in other aspects of life besides demanding a ban, because it is affecting your playtime. You and I might enjoy fishing with each other, at least on the OBX I will know when and where to go, to get bowed up.

I am just disagreeing with your viewpoint, I used to fish nets in boats in the area you are seeking a ban, with the folks whose families have done so for 400 years.

You were not around when I lived on the Island, and as such I view you as just another Tourist, for all I know half the reason some of the complainers can't catch anything, is they don't know how to use live bait.

To me fishing with a net or fishing with a rod/reel is just that fishing, I enjoyed the boats when I was young and I will certainly put forth my views every time a thread like yours comes up. 

And the other poster was correct, even God is on the side of the Commercials on Hatteras......

I was lucky to do it when the fish were in abundance, and when you are in your boat riding up to your net and the corks are bumping up and down under the strain of so many hundreds of fish, trying to escape its grasp and you know at least for that day, that morning, you are truly a fisherman, that is a feeling I will never let myself forget.

If the law changes the law changes, but it is a way of life for some folks I hold dear.

And I have always protected those I hold dear.

Good luck with your endeavors to ban nets. but as it is it is still a way of life, the fellas right now are already half done for the day, with last nights set.


----------



## surffshr

Garboman said:


> No one is trying to intimidate you Herb, no one knows who or what you are or what you stand for in other aspects of life besides demanding a ban, because it is affecting your playtime. You and I might enjoy fishing with each other.
> 
> I am just disagreeing with your viewpoint, I used to fish nets in boats in the area you are seeking a ban, with the folks whose families have done so for 400 years.
> 
> To me fishing with a net or fishing with a rod/reel is just that fishing, I enjoyed the boats when I was young and I will certainly put forth my views every time a thread like yours comes up.
> 
> I was lucky to do it when the fish were in abundance, and when you are in your boat riding up to your net and the corks are bumping up and down under the strain of so many fish, trying to escape its grasp and you know at least for that day, that morning, you are truly a fisherman, that is a feeling I will never let myself forget.
> 
> If the law changes the law changes, but it is a way of life for some folks I hold dear.
> 
> And I have always protected those I hold dear, even if only by typing my views on a internet forum.



Yes. and all of us should respect that thought.


----------



## ez2cdave

herb said:


> Enough is enough folks , when i fish other Atlantic Coastal States the fishing is vastly superior to North Carolina's in every way , the fishing these days in N.C is the worst i have ever seen by far in my lifetime and i am not a spring chicken.


Herb,

I have a serious question . . . 

Which Atlantic Coast state(s) do you think have the best fishing, overall and could you, please, "rank" them, in some type of order ?

Thanks & Tight Lines !


----------



## JamesRiverVa

When I first got into saltwater fishing on our annual treks to the OBX I was told "we don't have a tailing redfish/flats fishing fishery here in NC like they do in SC, GA, FL, LA etc." It was told to me sort of like "our drum here in NC behave differently than they do in those other states." I wondered why . . . the Pamilco Sound (and other similar shallow estuarine bodies in NC) seems tailor made for that kind of fishery. Do the fish suddenly start behaving differently when they cross the NC/SC border? Do they know when they are called drum and puppy drum instead of redfish, that they should no longer roam the flats and feed the way they do in the rest of the southern Atlantic and Gulf states? I was legitimately puzzled and having no idea I was treading into controversial territory, I persistently asked questions on a couple message boards and in person when I was on the OBX. Finally a brave local heard me asking and furtively (in a near-whisper and with eyes darting sideways to make sure the wrong people weren't listening) told me to check out the difference in inshore netting practices in NC vs. in those other states that have great inshore fisheries. Aaaaahhh. Now I see why. Not that there aren't other factors affecting the fish population that should also be addressed for the good of the environment and resource. Pollution, runoff, recreational bag limits, etc. But those issues are there in all those other states that have great inshore fisheries, too. The most obvious difference between those states and NC is way commercial fishing is practiced.

But nobody's going to change the mind of someone whose position basically boils down to:

(1) "I'm going to do all I can to ignore and downplay the evidence that commercial fishing as currently practiced in NC harms the resource and I will do what I can to obfuscate, sidetrack and muddy the waters whenever the subject is brought up to pretend like the issue of whether gill netting as practiced is harmful is still in doubt;" and more importantly

(2) "even if commercial fishing as practiced does harm the resource, the resource probably won't be completely depleted before I and the people I know and care about who fish the resource, are all dead. So I am going to support commercial fishing as practiced so I and/or my friends can continue to make a living and practice our/their 'way of life' even if that way of life leaves behind a much poorer resource for all of our grandchildren."

Any time a commercial industry is challenged for the good of a more diffuse population or an ideal like a better/cleaner/healthier/sustainable natural resource for all, the same kinds of arguments and tactics are seen. Whether it was the efforts to clean up massive pollution that was turning rivers odd colors and killing fish in the northeast decades ago, or Chesapeake Bay protection measures, or efforts to regulate Menhaden netting by companies like Omega, or efforts in the Gulf Coast and other states to ban harmful commercial fishing practices, the rhetoric about 'ways of life' and the questioning of the minutiae of the data when anyone objective can see that harm is being done, is par for the course. The fact that NC is such an outlier in this area compared to other coastal states (most or all of which used to have regs much more like NC's) kind of speaks for itself.


----------



## 1BadF350




----------



## herb

You hit it perfectly JamesRiverVA , the commercials think they are clever and do indeed intimidate a good portion of the opposition but they will soon be looking for other types of work , they just don't realize it yet.

They are so out of touch i bet many people didn't know the commercials filed a lawsuit a few years ago to try and get recreational fishing banned in all of N.C LOL, they view recreational's as the enemy . 

You think thats funny , check this out , they also filed a lawsuit trying to say recreational's were largely responsible for many sea turtle deaths . 

Point is , don't put up with this brainless slop from the commercials , they want to destroy the recreational anglers while they are allowed to continue their destruction of N.C inshore waters . 

I


> n their lawsuit last year, the two commercial groups argued that recreational hook-and-line anglers are responsible for a large share of injuries to rare sea turtles that enjoy protections under the Endangered Species Act.



Like i said i was one of the first residents on the Island of OIB along with the Sloane family , i have seen the total devastation of our waters and it's horrific what these commercials have done to it , there are very very few fisherman that even bother fishing N.C anymore .

They all say the same thing , fished here all my life and the fishing was great years ago , there's been virtually no fish for the last 8 or so years , it's ridiculous , places that i always caught fish at our dead now .

They also say that we have the best habitat of most any coastal State along the coast but the fish are gone . This is what happens when unrestricted GILL NETTING is allowed through coastal inshore areas folks .

There should be extreme outrage among all recreational anglers, you all DESERVE to experience good fishing , you pay for a license , you pay for expensive gear , allowing the commercials to continue the rape of our fisheries is coming to an end and i invite all recreational's to get involved .

They have no leg to stand on anymore , they claim it's their livelihood , well tough luck guys it's time you find another livelihood just like ALL the other commercials did in all the other States that were smart enough to ban all inshore netting .

Everyone knows it's the commercials that were responsible for breaking the wings of all the Pelicans that washed up on the beach a few years back , yes folks , since Pelicans can be annoying when gill netter's are pulling in their nets and get right next to the netter's at times, some of these netter's were all class and decided it is easier to just grab them and break a wing so they can't do it again. 

They were kind enough to just break one wing not both , how thoughtful.

All these Pelicans washed up on the beach and had to be euthanized , still a big reward being offered but gill netter's don't snitch on gill netter's. They also are responsible for killing Sea turtles on purpose when a Sea Turtle gill net closure is called for , see a pic below with head bashed in.

There are also incidents in N.C when Sea Turtles have been dragged behind a vehicle until dead by these classy individuals , God forbid we have to temporarily close the Gill Nets down since more turtles are being killed . Nets that have NO BUSINESS IN ANY INSHORE AREAS IN THE FIRST PLACE.


----------



## herb

Garboman said:


> *No one is trying to intimidate you Herb*, no one knows who or what you are or what you stand for in other aspects of life besides demanding a ban, because it is affecting your playtime. You and I might enjoy fishing with each other, at least on the OBX I will know when and where to go, to get bowed up.
> 
> I am just disagreeing with your viewpoint, I used to fish nets in boats in the area you are seeking a ban, with the folks whose families have done so for 400 years.
> 
> You were not around when I lived on the Island, and as such I view you as just another Tourist, for all I know half the reason some of the complainers can't catch anything, is they don't know how to use live bait.
> 
> To me fishing with a net or fishing with a rod/reel is just that fishing, I enjoyed the boats when I was young and I will certainly put forth my views every time a thread like yours comes up.
> 
> And the other poster was correct, even God is on the side of the Commercials on Hatteras......
> 
> I was lucky to do it when the fish were in abundance, and when you are in your boat riding up to your net and the corks are bumping up and down under the strain of so many hundreds of fish, trying to escape its grasp and you know at least for that day, that morning, you are truly a fisherman, that is a feeling I will never let myself forget.
> 
> If the law changes the law changes, but it is a way of life for some folks I hold dear.
> 
> And I have always protected those I hold dear.
> 
> Good luck with your endeavors to ban nets. but as it is it is still a way of life, the fellas right now are already half done for the day, with last nights set.


Thats too bad , because i thrive when people try to do that , your net setting references may bother other people who actually care about the fisheries but good luck trying to push my buttons, will never happen .


----------



## Garboman

herb said:


> Thats too bad , because i thrive when people try to do that , your net setting references may bother other people who actually care about the fisheries but good luck trying to push my buttons, will never happen .












Well here I am Herb, I caught seven that morning off of Rodanthe Pier, did not see you out there......

You should come up some Fall and watch us catch Drum, you might be able to get a few if you can cast and if you have great bait. I get great bait right off the dock from my Commercial friends in Rodanthe. I just leave my cooler full of ice at my friend's boat dock along with ten dollar bill overnight and in the morning it is miraculously filled to the brim with fresh jumping Mullet.

Of course if you cannot cast a heaver and you do not have good bait then the fishing will be miserable for you, just as you describe it.....must be hard on you, not being able to catch any fish and all....


----------



## letmefish

Garboman said:


> I just leave my cooler full of ice at my friend's boat dock along with ten dollar bill overnight and in the morning it is miraculously filled to the brim with fresh jumping Mullet.


Well at least I know where to pick up a few bucks for gas next time I'm in town.


----------



## letmefish

Garboman said:


> Ok Thanks good job Herb, nice post makes a lot of sense.
> 
> Most of the quotes you pasted come from me. Thank you for quoting me, it shows my statements have an effect. I am turning 62 this month, I started fishing the OBX in 1966 when perhaps a few thousand people came to fish.
> 
> I think it is up to 2 million visitors a year now, some fish, some do not.
> 
> There is probably a grand total of less than 100 commercial fisherman working on the OBX at this time and they are not full time, they do not fish the winters anymore much, they just kind of get by
> 
> Thank you for your viewpoint.
> 
> I do not know Frank White of Southern Sportsman, is Frank White a fisherman?
> 
> If fishing is so much better in other States that banned Commercial netting why are you not fishing there?



Your first 6 sentences don't have anything to do with anything. No one needs your "fishing resume" on this topic. You are most welcome by the way. If ya don't know who Franc White is, I'd recommend google. Mr. White has passed on now, but I think it might be safe to say that he's probably caught more fish in NC waters than the two of us put together. But catching more fish than the next guy doesn't have anything to do with the inshore netting and trawling ban that the OP started off with. Lastly, who says I don't fish other states, cause I do. I guess you just like making assumptions huh? Ya know what they say about that don't ya?


----------



## Garboman

letmefish said:


> Your first 6 sentences don't have anything to do with anything. No one needs your "fishing resume" on this topic. You are most welcome by the way. If ya don't know who Franc White is, I'd recommend google. Mr. White has passed on now, but I think it might be safe to say that he's probably caught more fish in NC waters than the two of us put together. But catching more fish than the next guy doesn't have anything to do with the inshore netting and trawling ban that the OP started off with. Lastly, who says I don't fish other states, cause I do. I guess you just like making assumptions huh? Ya know what they say about that don't ya?


Frank White sounds like he was a a fine man.

You sound like a Tourist.

I like my fishing resume, I post it all the time. I am proud of it. I also like my friends, so we must be at an impasse.

If you ever get to fish with us you will hear some nice stories, and from better fishermen than I, however I am a bad ass fishermen and I spent years at, fished every day I could, you were not around, which means you missed out on hundreds of fine days on the water.


----------



## Garboman

letmefish said:


> Well at least I know where to pick up a few bucks for gas next time I'm in town.


No problem if you need to steal, that is your Karma in life, it will catch up with you....


----------



## Garboman

Garboman said:


> No problem if you need to steal, that is your Karma in life, it will catch up with you....


I guess I am about done now having said my peace.

I will admit to having killed a few Turtles along the way, they do get hung up in the flounder nets, but have also taken great care to release the Turtles that were still alive, and set loose far more than I killed. Have you fellas even ever held a Turtle?

The birds do get tangled up in the nets, when the birds are picking the fish in the nets, seen hundreds of dead birds in the nets, they drown usually, I don't have the same compassion for the birds as you folks, I guess. I never saw or heard of any commercial actively breaking wings, or maiming the birds, we set very few birds free, as stated most of them dove under the surface to eat the fish, got tangled and drowned, and they then fed the crabs, circle of life.

I view it as is just the way it is sometimes something has to die, for something else to live, and I will never regret anything I did back when I was young on the OBX and I will forever be proud of all the boxes we shipped out to Fulton....it was a job I truly enjoyed.


----------



## letmefish

Lol, a tourist. That's a good one. More "assumptions" again. It's funny how you think OBX is the only area to fish. And why would you quote your own post, that's just silly? Must be on some personal ego trip or something. Or maybe it's just a way to boost your post count. Either way it's lame. Are you some sort of Narcissist or something? I bet so. Also how many times have you had to wear a cast cause you hurt your arm while patting yourself on the back? Just stop it man, your hurting yourself.


----------



## Drumdum

letmefish said:


> Lol, a tourist. That's a good one. More "assumptions" again. It's funny how you think OBX is the only area to fish. And why would you quote your own post, that's just silly? Must be on some personal ego trip or something. Or maybe it's just a way to boost your post count. Either way it's lame. Are you some sort of Narcissist or something? I bet so. Also how many times have you had to wear a cast cause you hurt your arm while patting yourself on the back? Just stop it man, your hurting yourself.


 I personally don't think either of you are helping yourselves in this thread...


----------



## letmefish

Drumdum said:


> I personally don't think either of you are helping yourselves in this thread...


So true. Lol.... Can't argue with that.

My father once said, "never argue with an idiot, he'll wrestle you down to his level and beat you by experience."


----------



## cooper138

letmefish said:


> So true. Lol.... Can't argue with that.
> 
> My father once said, "never argue with an idiot, he'll wrestle you down to his level and beat you by experience."


Say what you want but I would not be calling Garbo an idiot. Obviously you guys aren't seeing eye to eye.


----------



## greg12345

would like to see nc change their regs for sure. i seem to be able to catch just fine almost every time i go down. its taken me a lot of time but i figured it out through hours and hours, and i am a tourist who has to drive 6h to get to the nc coast. flounder has been tough i will say lately for me. sure it has not been as good as the "old days" but i catch enough.

also: if i had the time i would forget nc and go to fl every single time, now that is a saltwater fisherman's paradise imo


----------



## Got Fish?

greg12345 said:


> if i had the time i would forget nc and go to fl every single time, now that is a saltwater fisherman's paradise imo


I would too, they have some nice waters


----------



## jay b

Got Fish? said:


> I would too, they have some nice waters


They also banned inshore nets years ago but they get a lot more revenue from retirees and tourists, some that like to fish


----------



## Old Grouch

greg12345 said:


> also: if i had the time i would forget nc and go to fl every single time, now that is a saltwater fisherman's paradise imo


Big fish kill in Florida right now. 

http://www.floridasportsman.com/2016/03/24/indian-river-fish-kill/

Mike


----------



## BaitWaster

herb said:


> Most know all too well how atrocious North Carolina's inshore fishing has been over the last 5 years compared to how it was just a decade ago. Every inshore gamefish is in terrible shape compared to years past , however , flounder have taken the biggest hit by far.
> 
> Yada, yada, Yada..


Jeez, where to start.

Every gamefish is in terrible shape? If you couldn’t catch a slot puppy drum in 2013, then you’re just turrible. More adult drum around than folks can remember. Speckled trout fishing is good when we get a break from freezing winters. Southern flounder is not in good shape and head of NCFA admits something needs to be done but not to the degree as was done in the supplement. 

Oh yea, SC stocks red drum to the tune of hundreds of thousands of fingerlings every year ‘cause the recs whack more than can be naturally produced. No commercial harvest of red drum in SC 3 decades. http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/sports/outdoors/article61441977.html

“North Carolina is the only State that still allows unrestricted gill netting and trawling in all inshore fish nursery area zones.” 
Complete fabrication. There are pages and pages of rules and regs restricting gill netting in the rulebooks. Large-mesh is shut down for months due to turtle interactions. And trawling has never been allowed in primary nursery areas and special secondary nursery areas.

Sure netters cull fish. Some of it is regulatory discards – edible, marketable fish that the rules say they can’t keep. 

Guess you never cull fish hook & line fishing. Right. 

As to commercial not doing anything about flounder, that is the job of the Marine Fisheries Commission, composed of 3 recs, 3 commercials, 2 at-large and a scientist. The 1st southern flounder FMP was 11 years ago and agree the MFC ignored the recommendations of the NC DMF. A supplement was done in 2011 and the 1st amendment to the FMP was done 3 years ago and another supplement was just done. What happened 8 years ago is beyond me. 

Not sure of the source of your information, but suggest you do some fact checking.


----------



## letmefish

cooper138 said:


> Say what you want but I would not be calling Garbo an idiot. Obviously you guys aren't seeing eye to eye.



I would have responded to this sooner, but I was on a mountain fishing trip. Had a blast. But anyway!!!....

I was not calling anyone an "idiot". I also didn't mean to imply that he was being one either. If anyone thought I was calling Garbo an "idiot" then I apologize, as that was not my intention. I was only quoting something my father used to say. I wasn't trying to insinuate that anyone was being an idiot. A 1000 apologies!!!!


----------



## Shanep

Are we going to fish like our ancestors want us to or how our great grandchildren want us to?


----------



## speckhunter80

Okay who invited Baitwaster to the party...


----------



## Drumdum

speckhunter80 said:


> Okay who invited Baitwaster to the party...


 I did not invite him,but it is great to see sanity brought into a thread that is going off the rails with MUCH misinformation,as this one is...


----------



## Drumdum

On another note,Bernie IS ALWAYS welcome to post here!!


----------



## Baygullknotsea

Garboman said:


> View attachment 17768
> 
> 
> 
> Well here I am Herb, I caught seven that morning off of Rodanthe Pier, did not see you out there......
> 
> You should come up some Fall and watch us catch Drum, you might be able to get a few if you can cast and if you have great bait. I get great bait right off the dock from my Commercial friends in Rodanthe. I just leave my cooler full of ice at my friend's boat dock along with ten dollar bill overnight and in the morning it is miraculously filled to the brim with fresh jumping Mullet.
> 
> Of course if you cannot cast a heaver and you do not have good bait then the fishing will be miserable for you, just as you describe it.....must be hard on you, not being able to catch any fish and all....


I prefer albacore belly to mullet or menhaden. Can't believe bait shops don't sell it


----------



## herb

Garboman said:


> View attachment 17768
> 
> 
> 
> Well here I am Herb, I caught seven that morning off of Rodanthe Pier, did not see you out there......
> 
> You should come up some Fall and watch us catch Drum, you might be able to get a few if you can cast and if you have great bait. I get great bait right off the dock from my Commercial friends in Rodanthe. I just leave my cooler full of ice at my friend's boat dock along with ten dollar bill overnight and in the morning it is miraculously filled to the brim with fresh jumping Mullet.
> 
> Of course if you cannot cast a heaver and you do not have good bait then the fishing will be miserable for you, just as you describe it.....must be hard on you, not being able to catch any fish and all....



LOL, one of the funniest's post i have seen , unfortunately it's just a pic of a braggart who nobody cares about holding a drum which i guess is supposed to prove N.C fishing is just grand lol. N.C has the worst fishing of any State on the eastern seaboard by far and it's only you and your greedy commercial comrades that say there isn't a problem .

There were serious issues a decade ago and it's become much much worse . Keep denying but the commercials being able to rape the waters of all life is coming to an end soon.


----------



## herb

letmefish said:


> Lol, a tourist. That's a good one. More "assumptions" again. It's funny how you think OBX is the only area to fish. And why would you quote your own post, that's just silly? Must be on some personal ego trip or something. Or maybe it's just a way to boost your post count. Either way it's lame. Are you some sort of Narcissist or something? I bet so. Also how many times have you had to wear a cast cause you hurt your arm while patting yourself on the back? Just stop it man, your hurting yourself.



He thinks he's king of all fishing i suppose , it's hilarious , he assumes everything but thats what this type of person is known for , they do indeed think they know it all . The commercials went to court to try and get ALL recreational fishing banned permanently which is very hard to believe but true , they think they own the waters .


----------



## herb

jay b said:


> *They also banned inshore nets years ago* but they get a lot more revenue from retirees and tourists, some that like to fish



Thats exactly the reason why it's so good , when Texas banned inshore nets their fishing turned from poor to outstanding .


----------



## herb

ncdead said:


> While I don't fish other states salt water other than Florida, which is great BTW, I agree with what you are saying about NC. waters. We used to go to the outer banks numerous times a year* up until roughly ten years ago but I gave up for the most part. *I go once a year now and that's to fish offshore in October. *Last year about a half dozen of us fished the surf and Oregon inlet and caught one keeper flounder. It's pathetic. *I can spend a whole weekend there and not catch as many fish as I can in the family's farm pond over the course of about two hours. And I'm not a novice fisherman.



Thats the time frame many anglers agree about , it is pathetic i mean compared to just a decade ago it is a wasteland now , fish have not been around in the spots they used to be for years now . I met up with two fellow inshore guides two years ago at an inlet and we worked that area up and down through numerous tide changes and using every technique and method at our disposal .

We didn't say a word to each other and just fished and fished covering lots of ground , two of us were fishing live peanut menhaden or small lively finger mullet , didn't matter the fish (flounder) were gone , ten years ago you would pull one after the other , peanut bunker are the deadliest bait on the planet for many saltwater fish imo .

At the end of the day they said to me the habitat is outstanding but there's nothing here , what happened to the fish , i said i know , people that fished for decades i found out don't even fish anymore , why , they say it's not worth sitting all day out there and getting nothing .

Can't disagree


----------



## Garboman

herb said:


> LOL, one of the funniest's post i have seen , unfortunately it's just a pic of a braggart who nobody cares about holding a drum which i guess is supposed to prove N.C fishing is just grand lol. N.C has the worst fishing of any State on the eastern seaboard by far and it's only you and your greedy commercial comrades that say there isn't a problem .
> 
> There were serious issues a decade ago and it's become much much worse . Keep denying but the commercials being able to rape the waters of all life is coming to an end soon.



Go F... Yourself Herb. I am even more hilarious in person, seriously Go F... Yourself.

My commercial comrades on Hatteras also concur with the sentiment. 

We love Hatteras, Drum fishing is great on Hatteras, I love the Island and its people.

Stay the F.. off Hatteras, you have nothing to share with the island's Heritage, but your SE NC BS about rape of the oceans.

You should also stay away from Hawaii, they will also concur with my sentiment. In fact they are more dangerous.

In fact stay right where you are, it will be best, and be miserable there, instead of spreading your discontent.

If there are no fish where you are, the commercials will stay at the dock, your inshore guides should get real jobs and leave the fish alone.

Post up your picture, holding a bird or a turtle or whatever you hang with.


----------



## bctom

One thing about Frank White and myself that we both love New Zealand and bought homes there the fly fishing for big browns and rainbows is far beyond what we have in the states.
I was once hooked on drum fishing and lived for a few years on Hatteras, After fishing and finally catching a GT off the cliffs in Hi. over a hundred lbs, drum fishing is more like fishing for bream, try it you just might get hooked like I did. Rock on All Blacks!!!

e noho ra


----------



## letmefish

Garboman said:


> Go F... Yourself Herb. I am even more hilarious in person, seriously Go F... Yourself.
> 
> My commercial comrades on Hatteras also concur with the sentiment.
> 
> We love Hatteras, Drum fishing is great on Hatteras, I love the Island and its people.
> 
> Stay the F.. off Hatteras, you have nothing to share with the island's Heritage, but your SE NC BS about rape of the oceans.
> 
> You should also stay away from Hawaii, they will also concur with my sentiment. In fact they are more dangerous.
> 
> In fact stay right where you are, it will be best, and be miserable there, instead of spreading your discontent.
> 
> If there are no fish where you are, the commercials will stay at the dock, your inshore guides should get real jobs and leave the fish alone.
> 
> Post up your picture, holding a bird or a turtle or whatever you hang with.


Did Herb hurt your feelings or something?

I'd expect a much more calm and collected demeanor from someone with your level of expert skills as a fisherman. Also maybe you shouldn't be so offensive when referring to the "tourists". After all they provide income for lots of the islands inhabits, whether they are fishing or not. Since you "love the island and it's people" so much I would think you had figured that part out by yourself.

I don't think you can tell someone to stay off the island. Last I checked this is America, and we're still free to move about the country. Since "papers" aren't required to visit Hatteras I don't think you will accomplish much with that.

Oh, and how did Hawaii get into this conversation? Are you able to stay on topic?


----------



## Garboman

letmefish said:


> Did Herb hurt your feelings or something?
> 
> I'd expect a much more calm and collected demeanor from someone with your level of expert skills as a fisherman. Also maybe you shouldn't be so offensive when referring to the "tourists". After all they provide income for lots of the islands inhabits, whether they are fishing or not. Since you "love the island and it's people" so much I would think you had figured that part out by yourself.
> 
> I don't think you can tell someone to stay off the island. Last I checked this is America, and we're still free to move about the country. Since "papers" aren't required to visit Hatteras I don't think you will accomplish much with that.
> 
> Oh, and how did Hawaii get into this conversation? Are you able to stay on topic?


I am part Hawaiian and I have had enough of Herb and his BS.


----------



## stevec8787

I have no idea what it was like in the old days, I have only lived on the NC coast for 4 years, but I always hear how awful N.C fishing is now.....yet I feel I do pretty well on wrightsville(which doesnt seem to be a preferred fishing spot) puppy drum wise and I caught a lot of just under or keeper flounder last fall with most of them getting released...I'm sure the flounder need some help but a lot of people on here seem to talk as if N.C is dead water.....did I just find a nice section of beach or is this all misinformation?


----------



## BaitWaster

speckhunter80 said:


> Okay who invited Baitwaster to the party...


Been following this site for 7 years longer than you, LOL!


----------



## Drumdum

stevec8787 said:


> I have no idea what it was like in the old days, I have only lived on the NC coast for 4 years, but I always hear how awful N.C fishing is now.....yet I feel I do pretty well on wrightsville(which doesnt seem to be a preferred fishing spot) puppy drum wise and I caught a lot of just under or keeper flounder last fall with most of them getting released...I'm sure the flounder need some help but a lot of people on here seem to talk as if N.C is dead water.....did I just find a nice section of beach or is this all misinformation?


 I have pretty much ignored this "cca thread".. Finally someone that thinks as I.. I have fished for drum on this island over a 40yr span,there are WAY more than there were back then!! More tailor sized blues as well.. Spanish have been up and down,with cobias going off the charts in the past 20.. Seamullet,blowtoads,as well as pompano have been doing well also.. Specks have been up and down,but that can be attributed to freezes.. YES,flounder population is down,but there are other species doing well.. I do not understand why nc would be called the "dead pool",I've caught more than my share and still doing so... I guess it is easy to hammer on coms,but think about this: The coms were the reason our beaches were kept open for driving.. We hammered on them for netting the beaches and eventually what comes around goes around I reckon.. When "no fish zones" or your most popular way of catching is banned,who will you blame then?? 

No doubt com fishing needs regs to make for a healthy population,but to attribute them as being the sole villain is not only lame,but makes one sound like an elitist doing so.........


----------



## BaitWaster

Funny, I follow a number of SW fishing forums and mainly lurk to try to pick up a tip or two, laugh at all the Internet fishing "gurus' " "expert advice" and absolutely love the threads here where Drumdum et all recite tales of old. 

But when I hear folk regurgitating bovine feces about NC fisheries, I will come out of the shadows. Has NC made some half steps when they should have taken better measures? Are there some commercial gears, methods, ne'er-do-wells that need to be dialed in/up/out? Certainly. 

And a number of smart folks in the know take exception with some of my opinions. 

But Herb's post was, respectfully, complete nonsense. 

I've served on 3 Marine Fisheries Commission advisory committee (Inland, Finfish 2 terms and red drum), know most of the past and present players on the Marine Fisheries Commission and the Division of Marine Fisheries, have a degree in zoology including 3 ichthyology courses and 40 years in clinical research. Fished 32 CHAC tournaments with a win, 27 Nags Head tourneys with a second, a number of top tens, a couple of most fish, biggest fish, most points, biggest of species and, more importantly, have been fortunate to fish with and learn from some outstanding NC surf fishermen. 

Hopefully, enough to let you know I’m not pulling my comments out of my hind end. 

Also have been fortunate to know a number of commercial fishermen who are doing things right.

I usually attribute my lack of catch on a trip to wrong place, wrong tide, water temps, wrong bait or (fallback) can't catch what not there. 

Or my lack of catch is my conservation through incompetency.  

If your solution to improving your catch rates is to rid NC of commercial fishermen, then I have no sympathy. Maybe, Herb, just aren't very good.  Maybe you should fish in SC where don't allow commercial harvest and they stock red drum for recs to catch. Or fish in any number of trout streams or FW impoundments where they stock fish to improve rec odds. Or fish the other 49 states and territories where apparently the catching is superior. 

Myself, I will continue to enjoy fishing in NC as I have for 63 of my 67 years. And do what I can to make it better through participation in the process. 

But no worries. Back to reading and lurking.


----------



## Benji

It was the recreational fishermen that brought the coming closure on cobia, that will really hurt a lot of commercial business. There's two sides to every fence. Some people are better at golf.. or maybe golf's better for some people.


----------



## speckhunter80

Benji said:


> It was the recreational fishermen that brought the coming closure on cobia, that will really hurt a lot of commercial business. There's two sides to every fence. Some people are better at golf.. or maybe golf's better for some people.


Doesn't affect Comms in any way except maybe increases demand for commercially caught Cobia. Comms have not come anywhere close to their quota and therefore the closure for Cobia is only for Rec. anglers


----------



## Benji

speckhunter80 said:


> Doesn't affect Comms in any way except maybe increases demand for commercially caught Cobia. Comms have not come anywhere close to their quota and therefore the closure for Cobia is only for Rec. anglers


Was certainly under the impression that the closure was extended to charter boats. And it most certainly would put a dent in the money that business's make off people fishing for them when no one is buying bait or tackle for them. It wouldn't affect the commercial fishermen harvesting cobia but still have a ripple effect on other people trying to make a living.


----------



## Catch This

Well stated BaitWaster!


----------



## cooper138

BaitWaster said:


> Funny, I follow a number of SW fishing forums and mainly lurk to try to pick up a tip or two, laugh at all the Internet fishing "gurus' " "expert advice" and absolutely love the threads here where Drumdum et all recite tales of old.
> 
> But when I hear folk regurgitating bovine feces about NC fisheries, I will come out of the shadows. Has NC made some half steps when they should have taken better measures? Are there some commercial gears, methods, ne'er-do-wells that need to be dialed in/up/out? Certainly.
> 
> And a number of smart folks in the know take exception with some of my opinions.
> 
> But Herb's post was, respectfully, complete nonsense.
> 
> I've served on 3 Marine Fisheries Commission advisory committee (Inland, Finfish 2 terms and red drum), know most of the past and present players on the Marine Fisheries Commission and the Division of Marine Fisheries, have a degree in zoology including 3 ichthyology courses and 40 years in clinical research. Fished 32 CHAC tournaments with a win, 27 Nags Head tourneys with a second, a number of top tens, a couple of most fish, biggest fish, most points, biggest of species and, more importantly, have been fortunate to fish with and learn from some outstanding NC surf fishermen.
> 
> Hopefully, enough to let you know I’m not pulling my comments out of my hind end.
> 
> Also have been fortunate to know a number of commercial fishermen who are doing things right.
> 
> I usually attribute my lack of catch on a trip to wrong place, wrong tide, water temps, wrong bait or (fallback) can't catch what not there.
> 
> Or my lack of catch is my conservation through incompetency.
> 
> If your solution to improving your catch rates is to rid NC of commercial fishermen, then I have no sympathy. Maybe, Herb, just aren't very good.  Maybe you should fish in SC where don't allow commercial harvest and they stock red drum for recs to catch. Or fish in any number of trout streams or FW impoundments where they stock fish to improve rec odds. Or fish the other 49 states and territories where apparently the catching is superior.
> 
> Myself, I will continue to enjoy fishing in NC as I have for 63 of my 67 years. And do what I can to make it better through participation in the process.
> 
> But no worries. Back to reading and lurking.


----------



## Drumdum

Thanks Bernie.. You have a way with words no doubt...


----------



## surffshr

I can keep one red drum per day 18 to 27" Any drum under about 24" would be a shame to keep. generally speaking the bite isn't on everyday,
That about sums it up


----------



## Bullred

RocknReds said:


> The culture on the OBX is commercial. I was at church where the minister prayed for the government to relax the regulations so the commercial fishermen could get more fish.


This^^^^^^^. At least the first part for sure.


----------



## herb

*Recent newspaper articles by local fishing guide .*

Here is some recent articles by a local guide thats been fishing these waters for over a decade and is on the water nearly everyday , he knows how atrocious the fishing is and has enough guts to speak up about it.


----------



## herb

BaitWaster said:


> Jeez, where to start.
> 
> Every gamefish is in terrible shape? If you couldn’t catch a slot puppy drum in 2013, then you’re just turrible. More adult drum around than folks can remember. Speckled trout fishing is good when we get a break from freezing winters. Southern flounder is not in good shape and head of NCFA admits something needs to be done but not to the degree as was done in the supplement.
> 
> Oh yea, SC stocks red drum to the tune of hundreds of thousands of fingerlings every year ‘cause the recs whack more than can be naturally produced. No commercial harvest of red drum in SC 3 decades. http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/sports/outdoors/article61441977.html
> 
> “North Carolina is the only State that still allows unrestricted gill netting and trawling in all inshore fish nursery area zones.”
> Complete fabrication. There are pages and pages of rules and regs restricting gill netting in the rulebooks. Large-mesh is shut down for months due to turtle interactions. And trawling has never been allowed in primary nursery areas and special secondary nursery areas.
> 
> Sure netters cull fish. Some of it is regulatory discards – edible, marketable fish that the rules say they can’t keep.
> 
> Guess you never cull fish hook & line fishing. Right.
> 
> As to commercial not doing anything about flounder, that is the job of the Marine Fisheries Commission, composed of 3 recs, 3 commercials, 2 at-large and a scientist. The 1st southern flounder FMP was 11 years ago and agree the MFC ignored the recommendations of the NC DMF. A supplement was done in 2011 and the 1st amendment to the FMP was done 3 years ago and another supplement was just done. What happened 8 years ago is beyond me.
> 
> Not sure of the source of your information, but suggest you do some fact checking.



Hey everybody it's "baitwaster" the most Pro Commercial person on the entire planet , you sure the board is 3 recreationals and 3 commercials because it has known to be 3 commercials vs 2 recreational's which is the # 1 reason why they continue to vote whatever's best for the commercials and not the fish .

Even some of your prior comrades have spoke out about how commercials are solely responsible for destroying N.C 's fisheries.


*The recreational guys have backed down and backed down, going with the flow. But the commercial guys never back down; they want more and more.

“No one’s in the middle for the poor fish.”

Brown said he wishes his commercial fishing compadres had more concern for the resource and not immediate monetary gains.*


----------



## herb

Garboman said:


> I am part Hawaiian and *I have had enough of Herb and his BS*.


Oh no , what am i going to do ? Garbo is upset with me and i suppose doesn't understand that some people just aren't afraid of him . None of what i say is BS , you and your commercial buddies just can't tolerate when someone comes in and calls it exactly the way it is because you guys have had your way for so long .

National fishery publications have been criticizing N.C and the corruption of the MFC for years , they know how terrible it is , you guys may fool a lot of people with your "the fishing is as good as it's always been " BS but anybody who fishes these waters day in day out know it's has been decimated to the point that many long time anglers don't even bother fishing anymore .


----------



## herb

Baitwaster asked me about whether i "cull " fish with hook and line , the answer is no , i very rarely keep fish anymore and when i have caught sizable fish those are always returned to the water very quickly(many times at the disdain of onlookers) since they always are willing to take it .

I know your a big time #'s guy baitwaster , every argument you have been a part of where anglers say there are no fish around anymore you always like to come up with charts and the like to try and prove otherwise.

Problem is there are more people who literally live on the water saying the fish are clearly not around anymore including many professional guides and the recreational fishing alliance director himself .

Everything i have said is 100% factual and you know and it's a damn shame you ALWAYS side with the people who have completely destroyed N.C 's fisheries. 

But lets take a look into N.C 's commercial fishing industry shall we :


*Commercial trawlers slaughtering thousands of striped bass *

Commercial fishermen trawling off of the Outer Banks of North Carolina are slaughtering thousands of striped bass in “culling” operations and tossing them overboard trying to keep larger stripers and remain under their 50 fish limit.


“It’s an atrocity,” said Captain Aaron Kelly, a top striper guide with over 15 years of experience on the Outer Banks. “It’s gone on before but I think this was the first time it was in front of such a large crowd.”

Captain Kelly said that the day before the video was shot he and the members of his charter followed one trawler for five miles leaving a long wake of dead stripers.

“It’s like they have an endless quota,” he said. “Under the actual numbers are so many dead fish. It’s a frightful waste.”



“I’m not anti-commercial fishing in the least bit, but there is no justification for leaving miles and miles of dead fish out there,” said Captain Miller. “These were legal-sized fish just thrown away to die.”



“It’s happened before but this year is the worst I’ve ever seen it,” said Captain Ray. “I saw three huge masses of dead stripers from Nags Head to Kitty Hawk. It would be so much simpler if they were allowed a certain amount of pounds and would come in when they caught that many. I have no clue about why they allow this kind of sickening discard.”



All those white dots are dead fish , most well over 20 inches and this has happened repeatedly , guess what , no penalties given , business as usual for N.C .


----------



## JamesRiverVa

BaitWaster, Drumdum, Garboman or other pro-commercial folks I have a question for you. Why does NC not have a flats fishery for drum in the sounds that is similar to what you find in FL, GA, SC, the gulf coast states, etc.? I'm not saying you can't find and catch some drum back in the sound. But my understanding is that despite the seemingly ideal habitat, there isn't a tailing redfish fishery back there as you see in those other locales. I was told (in a hushed, frightened voice) by an OBX local that it was because of commercial netting. Is that incorrect? If so, then why do the fish behave differently when they cross the NC state line? 

Or would you say that the whole premise is incorrect and that NC has a flats-type fishery for shallow water pups/redfish that is just as good as what you'd find in Charleston, the Indian River Lagoon, etc. with similar numbers of fish exhibiting the same type of behavior in similar water as they do in those other states?


----------



## Garboman

herb said:


> Oh no , what am i going to do ? Garbo is upset with me and i suppose doesn't understand that some people just aren't afraid of him . None of what i say is BS , you and your commercial buddies just can't tolerate when someone comes in and calls it exactly the way it is because you guys have had your way for so long .
> 
> National fishery publications have been criticizing N.C and the corruption of the MFC for years , they know how terrible it is , you guys may fool a lot of people with your "the fishing is as good as it's always been " BS but anybody who fishes these waters day in day out know it's has been decimated to the point that many long time anglers don't even bother fishing anymore .



No problem Herb, post up your photograph and come to Hatteras in the Fall.


----------



## BaitWaster

NC does have a flats and flooded spartina red drum fishery. A big one. Anglers and guides target schools of puppy drum in the shallows and singles in the flooded spartina on the lunar high tides. Guessing you haven't done much inshore boating in NC. 

And did you know SC where red drum and spotted seatrout are gamefish and have been since the mid-80's, both are stocked to the tune of hundreds of thousand of fingerling each year - *SC stocked 600,000 red drum and over 300,000 sea trout in 2015. * http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/other-sports/article52284640.html 

If you want a put-a-fish-take-a-fish fishing in NC like they stock trout in the mountains and want to catch vs fish, you'll need to get the Legislature behind it. 

BTW, I don't consider myself pro-commerial, I'm more not anti-commercial and definitely pro-resource. Love it when you get bashed for telling it like it is and the pejorative "pro-commercial" is tossed out.  Just that I realize a dead fish by a rec is equal to a dead fish by a commercial. You manage the fishery generally by controlling F, fishing mortality which is fish coolered up and those that dies after discarding (including % of C&R).

And as a public resource, the NC Legislature, which represents the people of NC, has decided the non-fishing public should have access to this public resource and has licensed and permitted commercial fishermen to provide that access. 

Also while serving on three different NC MFC advisory committee (Inland, Finfish and Red Drum FMP) I've gotten to know a number of commercials who are doing things right. I also take the time to talk to commercials at the boat ramps, on the beach and on the water. Are there some ne-er-do-wells who are in it for the short term and poach and sell fish off the books, abso-dang-lutely. There are also a bunch on the rec side. 

Was trawl crap 4 years ago a mess? Absolutely. But to categorize a class of users by the actions of a couple of boats is bigotry, IMO. 

And Herb, if you think you are having zero impact by releasing all your fish, think again. Some of those releases are going to sink to the bottom dead or be eaten by predators in a weakened state. Depending on species, water temps, where hooked, etc., 5-20% won't "live to fight another day." And I have little patience for those that get on their high horse put their "playing with food"  above that of recs and commercials legally harvesting by the regulations. 

Here a link to the MFC. http://portal.ncdenr.org/web/mf/north-carolina-marine-fisheries-commission
They are down an at-large member, but I personally know Mike Whicker in the scientist seat and Chuck Laughridge in the at-large seat and both are avid recreational angler, Chuck rec fishing (almost entire with fly rod) more days than anyone I know. 

I will whole heartily agree the make-up of the MFC *was* heavily influenced by commercial fishing in past years with both at-larges and the scientist seat pro-commercial and they dropped the ball on several occasions, e.g., river herring and southern flounder. But that is history and the recent MFC has been decidedly pro-resource. 

Curious to know the guide that provided the clips. Care to provide? 

As to nobody fishing any more, the boat ramps and water around Morehead City where the wife and I have a place, would suggest differently.


----------



## JamesRiverVa

BaitWaster said:


> NC does have a flats and flooded spartina red drum fishery. A big one. Anglers and guides target schools of puppy drum in the shallows and singles in the flooded spartina on the lunar high tides. Guessing you haven't done much inshore boating in NC.
> 
> I'm open to learning, but definitely skeptical at the proposition that commercial fishing as practiced in NC has a neutral or benign effect on the resource. It seems like the habitat available is so spectacular that it can take a pretty large amount of exploitation and abuse, and still produce and sustain fish, even if only at a level that's a fraction of what it could be with different regulation. An OBX tackle shop owner told me over 10 years ago that NC didn't have that kind of sight fishing, tailing-fish shallow water fishery, at least not comparable to what you see in Florida, the gulf coast states or other southern Atlantic states. It seemed odd to me with so much seemingly ideal shallow water habitat behind Hatteras and Ocracoke and I asked around re. why and that's when an OBX local told me it was due to inshore netting. Maybe they didn't know what they were talking about but don't blame me for believing what seemed like credible sources. Would you say the flats type fishing in NC is comparable to that in those other states in terms of quality and numbers of fish available in similar habitat? I didn't know SC stocked drum and specks. Do the other Atlantic seaboard and gulf states do the same? I agree that could skew the numbers significantly.
> 
> Whenever I've gone out with inshore charter captains on the OBX they seem to look for pups in sloughs and deeper holes, not fish the shallow flats-like water. Maybe that fishery you're speaking of is in parts of NC where I don't visit? I kayak fish as much as I surf fish when I'm down there but admittedly that's only a couple of weeks per year. Still, the trips I take with family and friends to the OBX inject between $5K-$10K+ per year into the local economy and there are thousands of others like us, so to be told (not by you per se) basically to stay out of the OBX and go fish in a different state if we question the impact commercial fishing has on a resource that is part of why we come there, seems awfully short sighted from someone who claims to care about people down there being able to make a living. Seems like the area's economy would be hurt a lot worse by tourists staying away than by designating drum and speckled trout as gamefish or changing inshore netting practices.
> 
> Do you believe the population of drum and specks improved in the other Atlantic seaboard states and gulf coast states as a result of those states' changing their commercial fishing practices and/or how they designate drum and specks as gamefish? Or do you think those reg changes had no impact on fish populations in those states?


----------



## Drumdum

JamesRiverVa said:


> BaitWaster, Drumdum, Garboman or other pro-commercial folks I have a question for you. Why does NC not have a flats fishery for drum in the sounds that is similar to what you find in FL, GA, SC, the gulf coast states, etc.? I'm not saying you can't find and catch some drum back in the sound. But my understanding is that despite the seemingly ideal habitat, there isn't a tailing redfish fishery back there as you see in those other locales. I was told (in a hushed, frightened voice) by an OBX local that it was because of commercial netting. Is that incorrect? If so, then why do the fish behave differently when they cross the NC state line?
> 
> Or would you say that the whole premise is incorrect and that NC has a flats-type fishery for shallow water pups/redfish that is just as good as what you'd find in Charleston, the Indian River Lagoon, etc. with similar numbers of fish exhibiting the same type of behavior in similar water as they do in those other states?


 Let's see,first you label me as "pro com"???? I don't think so... Evidently you haven't seen ANY of my post about dropnetting kings... 

Second you challenge me to point out flats in NC that are productive: Well is sightcasting drum from 30-50lbs with regularity from end of June through Sept pretty good?? Howabout sightcasting pups during that same period?? The guides here did it last year,I even jumped in and got in on the action a couple of times.. Every aug-sept you can baitfish pups on all kinds of shoals here in the sound.. Every spring you can baitfish for them in "certain spots" and catch them with regularity in the sound.. Like Baitwaster,I don't know if you have been living under a rock or you simply haven't fished here???


----------



## BaitWaster

If you cut out a user group, all things being equal you would expect more availability to the remaining user groups. But too many think a fish caught by a commercial is a fish they don't catch.

But I believe you are correct as to the Outer Banks charters target sloughs and holes tho have fished on a charter where we baitfished the grass flats behind the south end of Hatteras Island looking for slicks. If you get Core Sound south, lots of angler and guides are looking for schools in shallow water. http://www.northcarolinasportsman.com/details.php?id=4099http://

And I think it spurious to count the entire cost of a vacation in the contributions you make to rec fishing. Wife and I have a place in MHC primarily because of the diverse fishing opportunities. Do I count the place, taxes, insurance, my boat, money we when we leave our place in Raleigh, etc, etc, etc. given my wife doesn't fish ? I was once survey at the dock when a friend invited invited me on the spur of the moment to fly fish for pups in a creek while we were down to do some clean-up at the place. When asked how much I spent, I said $0.60 for the Coke I drank. .

When gamefish has taken place in other states through legislative action often there is a perception fishing is better. But SC has learned with red drum you have to monitor rec closely as they will fish down the population. Think it bogus to look at states in the Gulf when looking at speckled trout as they are temp sensative and their average low temps are about the same as NC's aver winter high temps. 

Certainly NC's puppy drum and trout fishing is variable based on the year-of-young for red drum and winter temps for speckled trout. Southern flounder fish is down and this is primarily due to commercial over-harvest of immature fish. Adult drum fishing is off the charts. 

But the original posts was about how the inshore fishing in NC sucked and all because of commercial fishing. On this I disagree based on living in NC for 65 of my 67 years and fishing a bunch in the surf and inshore for 40+ years.


----------



## speckhunter80

If NC has no flats fishing for red drum then why did the OH BOY O'Berto tour hold their last two season championships in Morehead in addition to a regular season tournament? Why did the top 5 in the Championship catch their fish within a mile and a half of my house. I seemed to remember having two of them in my boat and riding in two others of their boats and putting them on those spots prior to the tournament. Sorry, but we don't need bad advice from Virginia, there is plenty of that homegrown bad advice.


----------



## Garboman

Drumdum said:


> Let's see,first you label me as "pro com"???? I don't think so... Evidently you haven't seen ANY of my post about dropnetting kings...
> 
> Second you challenge me to point out flats in NC that are productive: Well is sightcasting drum from 30-50lbs with regularity from end of June through Sept pretty good?? Howabout sightcasting pups during that same period?? The guides here did it last year,I even jumped in and got in on the action a couple of times.. Every aug-sept you can baitfish pups on all kinds of shoals here in the sound.. Every spring you can baitfish for them in "certain spots" and catch them with regularity in the sound.. Like Baitwaster,I don't know if you have been living under a rock or you simply haven't fished here???


Most times we caught puppy drum in the Sound from selected secret spots after 3 days of Hard SW, the water is so stirred up the only thing you can sight is wind waves and more wind. If the wind was coming from the ocean side, we did not bother fishing from the shore in the sound.

There is a secret spot in the Sound that has a lot of Drum of all sizes, due in a large part that it is hard to get to, it is out of range of most of the windsurfers, and too shoaled up for commercial boats to risk running aground when the tide falls out.

Since DD and Baitwaster are taking a more moderate stance....I will be the Pro-Commercial fella (With the sole exception of those Pill Merchants out of Reedsville VA, which is in VIRGINIA by the way)

Poor Herb can not seem to get any traction on his claims....That is probably why he is so angry. 

Here is a run down on Rodanthe Creek commercial roster these days....

Three part time boats compared to seven full time crews in 1990. They set when conditions are good, not every day like in the past when we fished 24/7

At least off Hatteras Island there is very little by-catch of Puppy Drum due to the gear. Inshore in shallow water they set Flounder nets, the Puppy Drum swim right through the net without getting gilled. 

Summer time the smaller mesh nets are set for Spanish out in deeper water mostly back of what is called the Reef. Spanish Mackerel have been hammered there at times, and I will admit that there is likely no person on this board who killed as many 3-7 pound Spanish as we did back in the early 1990's, the number of Big Spanish is in the thousands that shipped out to Fulton @ $1.00 per pound.

Winter time the Trout do get targeted up in Hatteras in the Sound.

Not sure what happens down SE NC way, the Commercials are real unpopular down there, whereas on Hatteras it is your neighbors and most likely the very person who will come looking for you God Forbid something happens to your Boat off of Hatteras rec fishing or not....


----------



## JamesRiverVa

Well, I'm glad to know the 2 OBX residents who told me there wasn't a flats fishery in NC like exists in other states, were either lying or mistaken. Like I said above, I'm willing to learn. I do have a hard time believing inshore netting and especially gill netting doesn't take a serious and excessive toll on the resource and believe there is good reason those practices are not allowed in other states, beyond just the selfishness of recreational fishermen. I know I love fishing on the OBX, both in surf and the sound. But 2 or 3 weeks a year is all the time I spend there so I recognize there is lots I don't know.


----------



## surffshr

JamesRiverVa said:


> Well, I'm glad to know the 2 OBX residents who told me there wasn't a flats fishery in NC like exists in other states, were either lying or mistaken. Like I said above, I'm willing to learn. I do have a hard time believing inshore netting and especially gill netting doesn't take a serious and excessive toll on the resource and believe there is good reason those practices are not allowed in other states, beyond just the selfishness of recreational fishermen. I know I love fishing on the OBX, both in surf and the sound. But 2 or 3 weeks a year is all the time I spend there so I recognize there is lots I don't know.


Must be a well kept secret


----------



## BaitWaster

As a kayak angler might want to ping Rob Alderman http://www.outerbankskayakfishing.com/ or John Mortensen AKA JAM (on Facebook) as they do guide or have guided yakkers on the Outer Banks. 

Garboman nailed it as to the feelings toward commercials in Dare and Hyde Counties (generally positive) vs. the central and southern part of the state (generally negative). Prolly more dingbatters (like myself) who have moved to or bought property on the coast, water is more congested and more bad user interactions. 

But I can tell you my fishing on the Outer Banks has been more negatively impacted by the National Park Service than commercial fishermen. 

There clearly have been some wasteful commercial activities in the past and there has been a lot of changes mandated on where, how and what gear can be fished. NC Legislative leadership has long been dominated by folks from the coastal counties and a number of their constituents are commercials or have close ties to commercial fishing. Big reason why NC is 'different' than other coastal states.


----------



## speckhunter80

and yes some of those OH Boy Oberto anglers bitched and complained about gill nets even to the National media. Some because they were asked to, some because they got trapped by a few "wonderful and idiotic" commercial fishermen but none denied what an amazing number of fish they caught while here on the Crystal Coast


----------



## Drumdum

Garboman said:


> Most times we caught puppy drum in the Sound from selected secret spots after 3 days of Hard SW, the water is so stirred up the only thing you can sight is wind waves and more wind. If the wind was coming from the ocean side, we did not bother fishing from the shore in the sound.
> 
> There is a secret spot in the Sound that has a lot of Drum of all sizes, due in a large part that it is hard to get to, it is out of range of most of the windsurfers, and too shoaled up for commercial boats to risk running aground when the tide falls out.
> 
> Since DD and Baitwaster are taking a more moderate stance....I will be the Pro-Commercial fella (With the sole exception of those Pill Merchants out of Reedsville VA, which is in VIRGINIA by the way)
> 
> Poor Herb can not seem to get any traction on his claims....That is probably why he is so angry.
> 
> Here is a run down on Rodanthe Creek commercial roster these days....
> 
> Three part time boats compared to seven full time crews in 1990. They set when conditions are good, not every day like in the past when we fished 24/7
> 
> At least off Hatteras Island there is very little by-catch of Puppy Drum due to the gear. Inshore in shallow water they set Flounder nets, the Puppy Drum swim right through the net without getting gilled.
> 
> Summer time the smaller mesh nets are set for Spanish out in deeper water mostly back of what is called the Reef. Spanish Mackerel have been hammered there at times, and I will admit that there is likely no person on this board who killed as many 3-7 pound Spanish as we did back in the early 1990's, the number of Big Spanish is in the thousands that shipped out to Fulton @ $1.00 per pound.
> 
> Winter time the Trout do get targeted up in Hatteras in the Sound.
> 
> Not sure what happens down SE NC way, the Commercials are real unpopular down there, whereas on Hatteras it is your neighbors and most likely the very person who will come looking for you God Forbid something happens to your Boat off of Hatteras rec fishing or not....


 You are just speaking "around" Salvo area... Have fished there as well,and you are correct.. Muddy conditions with fatback all over combined with sw wind are conditions you want to catch varying sizes of drum.. I was shown this spot by an oletimer back over 25yrs ago,you wouldn't see another boat and you had to work around the shoals to either anchor or "beach fish" with bait.. First time I went there the water was loaded in prosperous.. My friend and I caught 13 bigguns that night,but the thing that hooked me on that spot was the seclusion,as well as watching hooked drum in the waves glowing like neon in the dark.. Now it is NO LONGER a "secret spot" ,you will see as many as 10 boats there when the time is right. Needless to say I have not fished there in almost 10yrs...
Although you head down Hatteras way,sightcasting will work well.. Conditions prove to be key.. Nw wind can trigger an excellent shore bite of pups and yearlings shoreside of sound with bait.. Winds of all kinds when the sound is cleared can be GREAT for sightcasting..


----------



## herb

The submitted newspaper article (attached thumbnail) below the quoted article at the very bottom of the page is a must read for those that actually give a damn about the fisheries throughout N.Carolina's waterways and sounds.

I am just one of countless people that want to put a stop to the atrocities that the commercial sector is responsible for throughout our inshore waterways . I talk to a lot of people throughout the State and we are all in agreement that it's time for N.C to do what other coastal States have done and that is to ban all commercial gill nets and trawling in inshore waterways and sounds .

The below article is not new but is very telling about what happened when other States banned nets:




> No issue in recent years has raised the voices and emotions of North Carolina anglers as much as the current debate over the future of gill nets in the state. Most of the attention is centered on the lawsuit filed by the Karen Beasley Sea Turtle Rescue Center seeking to get rid of gill nets in NC due to their interactions with sea turtles.
> 
> The gill net debate has been simmering under the fisheries management radar for some time, however, and is more complex than the attempt to save sea turtles. North Carolina’s gill net policies reflect an attempt by the state to satisfy commercial fishermen and still comply with federal endangered species laws and state fish stock goals.
> 
> They also reveal a deep divide between commercial interest and recreational fishermen over the effects gill nets have on certain valuable fish such as redfish, speckled trout, and flounder.
> 
> Many North Carolina commercial fishermen have expressed shock and dismay at the possibility of federal pressure forcing the state to severely restrict or eliminate gill nets. However, looking at the way the other southern states on the Atlantic and Gulf coast have dealt with gill nets, NC has actually allowed gill netting to go on for longer and with less regulations than most other state governments.
> 
> Texas has banned monofilament gill nets in 1981 and ended all types of commercial netting in saltwater in 1988.
> 
> Robin Riechers is the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department's science and policy director for its Coastal Fisheries Division and has been working in fisheries management for over 16 years. He credits the elimination of inshore nets in Texas with the recovery of healthy speckled trout and redfish populations in the state.
> 
> “Not only has the quantity of sport fish gone up but so has the quality,” said Riechers. “One of the secrets to this turnaround is the ability to control fishing mortality much more easily in a sport rod and reel fishery than in a commercial fishery.”
> 
> According to NOAA statistics Texas maintains a commercial seafood industry whose landings valued at over $197 million compared to the $70 million in landings for North Carolina. The data is based on 2006 numbers.
> 
> “Catch rates have increased by 60% since the 1988 net ban,” said Riechers. “The relative abundance of red drum in the bays is at record levels. This abundance has increased 20% since the net ban. Because commercial nets targeted larger red drum, the removal of nets in Texas resulted in a dramatic upsurge of large fish available. Our surveys have document an increase in average weight of sport-caught red drum from just two pounds prior to 1981 to a current average of over five pounds.”
> 
> In addition to redfish gains, Riechers credits the elimination of inshore netting with restoring the state’s speckled trout population.
> 
> “Trout populations have risen to the highest levels since the 1970s,” said Riechers. “This is particularly phenomenal considering the tremendous number of seatrout killed in three freezes since 1983. Without nets in the water, managers were able to delay harvest and maximize the fish’s reproductive success.”
> 
> Riechers also credits the net ban with increasing black drum abundance by 250 percent. Commercial anglers now catch black drum on trotlines instead of with nets.
> 
> Riechers said that in Texas eliminating nets has had a huge impact on the state’s recreational and tourism industries while the seafood industry has survived.
> 
> “Anglers are now experiencing some of the best coastal fishing in recent memory,” said Riechers. “This has lead to an economic boost in tourism and sport fisheries with a total impact to the state of over $1.7 billion. The number of saltwater guides has quadrupled since the early 1980s, and the availability of seafood in Texas has not suffered with the loss of commercial netting.”
> 
> Florida held a public vote in 1994 and 72 percent of the public voted to ban gill nets and all entangling nets from inshore waters. According to Mark Robson, the director of Florida’s Division of Marine Fisheries, the closure meant the end to most inshore commercial catches of speckled trout and initially caused recreational overfishing on both trout and redfish. However, in 1999 Florida began using scientific methods to manage the trout and redfish and have seen a dramatic recovery of both species.
> 
> “Two fisheries management success stories in Florida are the red drum and spotted seatrout,” Robson said. “The most recent regulation amendments occurred in 2000 and streamlined the regulations to increase compliance and enforceability.”
> 
> Robson says that the commercial fishing industry has seen sharp declines in landings for inshore speckled trout, and commercial harvest and sale of redfish was prohibited altogether in 1989. However, Florida still maintains commercial landings of seafood that more than double those in NC at $192 million.
> 
> Here is a summary of all southern state laws concerning gill nets:
> 
> South Carolina does not allow inshore gill nets except in a few small designated areas. However, gill nets no longer than 100 feet with a 3-inch minimum stretched mesh size are allowed in the ocean. Both redfish and speckled trout are gamefish in South Carolina and cannot be sold by commercial fishermen.
> 
> Georgia does not allow gill nets in its coastal waters.
> 
> Florida does not allow gill nets in its coastal waters.
> 
> Alabama is phasing out gill netting by limiting the number of gill netters to those who had licenses when a new law was passed in 2008. Gill netters can continue to buy licenses for themselves, but cannot transfer licenses and new licenses are not being created. Gill netting areas are also restricted.
> 
> Louisiana does not allow gill nets in coastal waters except for mullet and pompano “strike nets” during certain seasons. Commercial strike netters cannot keep fish other than mullet or pompano.
> 
> Texas does not allow gill nets in coastal waters.
> 
> The one southern state that does still have fisheries laws similar to North Carolina is Mississippi, where inshore gill netting is still allowed. Similar to laws that apply in NC, Mississippi manages stocks of redfish, speckled trout and flounder by commercial quota.
> 
> Riechers says that each state is different and must make up its own mind about gill nets.
> 
> “North Carolina should manage its aquatic resources based on what is best for its unique situation,” Riechers said. “Banning nets in marine waters was the right thing to do in Texas.


----------



## Drumdum

So you say our fishery in NC is depleted terribly in the last 10yrs.. Some asked for examples of how it has not depleted.. We give those examples.. THEN,you AGAIN COMPAIR us with regs in other states..


----------



## Drumdum

And to add,so I do not get called a "pro com"... If you look back in the archives you will see many of my post,especially those on king mackerel fishing that would tell you the opposite.. I'm not pro com,but then again I'm not a cca activist either.............


----------



## jay b

Common sense says there's middle ground somewhere. Scientists and regulatory boards attempt to make rules to appease everyone while keeping a sustainable resource, unfortunately it's a shared resource so everyone thinks they "deserve" a bigger piece of the pie.


----------



## surffshr

I don't think there is anything wrong with being pro-Commercial or Pro Rec. People just have to be willing to accept what affect their activity has on the resource.


----------



## letmefish

I did not know that the Herring was gone. Wow!!! So there are already certain species of fish that have been depleted? I ate many a salted Herring when I was a kid.

To be fair though, it's not ONLY the Commercial fishing that causes this sort of thing. Pollution, and loss of habit play a big part as well. Pollution more so than anything else I would imagine.

Also I just read an article about the famous Cypress Grill in Jamestown, The articles states that they have to get their Herring from SC cause they can't find it locally. The Cypress Grill is the last of it's kind, according to the article. That place has been opened since 1936. Darn it, now I have a taste for Herring.... Road trip!


----------



## BaitWaster

letmefish said:


> Also I just read an article about the famous Cypress Grill in Jamestown, The articles states that they have to get their Herring from SC cause they can't find it locally. The Cypress Grill is the last of it's kind, according to the article. That place has been opened since 1936. Darn it, now I have a taste for Herring.... Road trip!


Sure they could find them but can't catch & keep them since moratorium on rec & commercial harvest in NC since 2007. Clearly water quality and dams played a role but clearly over-harvested for years on their way to spawning grounds.


----------



## psudukie

I am not a current resident if the state, however I certainly enjoy the resource of surf fishing. 

I am always amazed at the amount of fish I see kept recreationally. I am sure some folks use it as a supplement to the grocery bill, others simply like fish, and if we are honest some gets wasted.. Freezer burnt thrown out etc. I fish cause I simply enjoy it and throw mine back, I am aware a percentage don't survive being thrown back but I do try hard to release fish in good condition.

I have no clue as to a solution but I think we all could watch how we impact the resource.. If we gave the fish even a year at half or no of the keep rate it surely would help. Obviously goes for all the sea coasts not just nc. I hope my kids get to enjoy catching a few I. The surf when I am long gone.

Sorry if I was preaching not the intent.


----------



## herb

People do tend to keep what they catch from what i see , i don't keep much of anything anymore and make sure everything is released safely back into the water. People do seem to get very upset when i release big drum or speckled trout , one guy totally freaked on me when i released a very impressive Spanish last year from the beach , i don't eat that stuff .


----------



## Garboman

herb said:


> People do tend to keep what they catch from what i see , i don't keep much of anything anymore and make sure everything is released safely back into the water. People do seem to get very upset when i release big drum or speckled trout , one guy totally freaked on me when i released a very impressive Spanish last year from the beach , i don't eat that stuff .


Last winter was epic for the Puppy Drum at selected spots. Some days it was 30-50 at a time for me, most undersized but plenty of slots and a few yearlings.

Wind people have taken over the near shore on Hatteras, kite boards and wind surfers now dominate waters where nets were formerly set.

Can we thank the Canadians for restoring the Puppy Drum fishery in Jan-Mar?

Spanish are the best small fish in my opinion, eaten the day they are caugt fileted skinned and care taken to remove the bone from the filet.


----------



## Garboman

herb said:


> People do tend to keep what they catch from what i see , i don't keep much of anything anymore and make sure everything is released safely back into the water. People do seem to get very upset when i release big drum or speckled trout , one guy totally freaked on me when i released a very impressive Spanish last year from the beach , i don't eat that stuff .


Last winter was epic for the Puppy Drum at selected spots. Some days it was 30-50 in a few morning hours for me, most undersized but plenty of slots and a few yearlings.

Wind people have taken over the near shore on Hatteras, kite boards and wind surfers now dominate waters where nets were formerly set.

Can we thank the Canadians for restoring the Puppy Drum fishery in Jan-Mar?

Spanish are the best small fish tablefare in my opinion, eaten the day they are caught fileted skinned and care taken to remove the bone from the filet.

No big Spanish get released by me, although I release all kinds of critters I beach.


----------



## keithpad

Just a thought. NC is the ninth most populated state in the country. Of the states mentioned in this thread only Florida is more populated. With that being said, most of NC's population lives with 3 hours of the coast. Doesn't it make since that there are now more recreational fishermen now than 10 years ago and there are less comm fishermen. Which in turn means that more fish are being kept by recs as a whole than ever before. You can't just blame the comms. Also, with more people wanting to live on or near the coast,this causes pollution from storm runoff, sewer mishaps, contractors destroying wetlands to build neighborhoods, etc. As for flounder fishing, I rarely have a problem getting my limit if I so choose to ( I don't always try to catch my limit). I just know where to go in my area depending on the weather, winds, temperature, and time of year. If I may ask a question or two...where do you anti comm guys get your bait? and those living inland where do the restaurants you eat at get there so called fresh seafood. Most all people that I know want fresh caught, whether its oysters, clams, spots, flounder, doesn't matter. And just to be clear, I am a recreational fisherman and I comm fish every so often. I know I jumped around a bit, but I have to say what comes to my mind when it's there or I will forget it, just ask my wife.


----------



## LEADDRAFT

I'm going to Chime in here.. I've read most, (if not all) the comments regarding Pro-Comm & pro-Rec..
I know Who Baitwaster is.. I respect you comments Sir, as well as Ray Browns, thank you, (both), for being a voice of Sanity @ times..


I myself have been a REC, AND COMM. I reside here in SE NC, for your info Garboman.. I've done the crabbing, Shellfishing, some netting & Shrimping, (Inside). Then back to REC in the Late 2010's..
I noticed ONE common theme that is being shouted out here.. Red drum, Red Drum,, Red Drum...
Which is Fine by Me.. For those that remember the RED DRUM Fishery though-out NC had CRASHED along with the Stripers, in the Late 70' & 80's time period(s).. About the time of the *Blackened Red-Fish* craze..
Thankfully, The MFC, (and I think the Noaa), had foresight, reducing the Drum & Stipers, (for all), bringing them BOTH back from the brink, of extinction.. We now have a Awesome RED Drum Fishery, so much so, the last several years, WE down here in SE NC have been having a BLAST catching these TROPHY Fish, immediately, after Kinging season, is ending, or a Combo of Both, even far south, as OCP Pier on Oak Island..
Lord, I even Caught ONE My self @ 43 inches.. I ALWAYS thought, I would have to make that trip, UP NAWTH, (OBX) to catch one in MY lifetime.. Now EVERYONE can "catch" one off the pier, or surf, up & down the NC Coast.. IF enough effort is put into catching one of these Amazing fish.. 
Stripers? Not so much down this way, NOR around OBX.. I remember Rick Caton, posting pictures in the *Washing Maching* catching numerios Trophy Stripers, that suddenly after years of STRICT Management was WIPED out, (again), in ONE or 2 Years of Trawlers, being allowed once again to harvest these Fish.. Wiping them out due to *HIGH GRADING*.. Never mind, Folks, the Wild Life Service Folks, STOCK Stripers for those river systems up that way, for what amounts to a PENNY Fishery.. AT A LOSS to the TaxPayers.. We cannot even Keep one to Eat down here around the Cape Fear..

NOW, to the "MEAT" of My post... Anyone remember BlueBack Herring? A fish once that dominated some certain river systems up around OBX & VA?
IMOP, SPOTS are going in the same general direction..
Garboman, Do YOU Fish for Spots? How bout Sea Mullet, Black drum, Grey Trout, Flounder?, or any other critters besides Drum? What I'm inferring here is this.. ALOT of "Tourist"s come down to catch those, NOT Trophy Drum. That's a added Benefit If a person were to catch one.. 
See what ALOT of ya'll are missing ONE HUGE point here..
OBX, Hatteris & the Pamlico sound ET AL is a HUGE NURSERY for the Majority of the East Coast.. While plenty is mentioned here of the "WHYS" of the "depletion" of certain species of fish, due to Animal waste runoff, development, more people, etc, etc..
ALOT boils down to THIS..
TRAWLING in the Pamlico & INSIDE our NURSERY Waters.. SHRIMP trawling that is.. Those STELL HULLED TRAWERS have NO business being "inside" in the Pamlico, (Or other inside waters), Trawling for Shrimp that could fetch a BETTER Price harvested OUTSIDE in the Ocean.. 
Killing, (by catch) 4 to 5 POUNDs of Juvenile Fish for every pound of Shrimp caught.. Along with crabs & other critters.. WHILE Dredging up the bottom, (much like a farm tractor), Disturbing sediments, Killing Sea Grass(s), etc etc..
So GarboMan, PLEASE explain to US.... WHY? Down here below Topsail Island, SPOTS & Gray Trout, Flounder have become almost a Extinct species? Do you think that maybe, just MAYBE, Killing 4 to 5 pounds of baby Spots, Grey Trout, Flounder, SST(s), and numerous other critters, in those Trawl nets maybe are having a effect after all these years? As late as the Mid-80's We experienced MASSIVE Spot runs here in SE NC that lasted Days, if not weeks, (like in the 70's).. NOW We are LUCKY if We see a Spot run lasting a Day or more.. THIS is what folks down this way are bitching about, (Me included)...
Spots are currently listed as "Concerned".. Will they, Along with the Grey Trout, be listed as "Endangered" in the near future? All in the Name of "Tradition, Heritage" etc etc? At what cost to the REST of the Citizens of NC? 
Remember Folks.. AND YOU, Mr. Garboman, with ALL due respect Sir.. Even though You live on OBX, threatening Harm to Folks that spend THIER Monies on YOUR Island, supporting YOUR local Economy, that includes Commercials, Hotels, & ALL those Charter Boats that ALSO fish COMMERICAL in the winter for dogfish & Sea Bass and "other" species in the Winter.. YOU NEED those folks in spend Monies on YOUR Island OR you'll be eating those Trophy Drum to get by.. 
Point is YOUR Island AND Waters surround it, (Including the Fish there-in) BELONG to ALL the Good Folks of North Carolina.. WE have a Say so, including those folks in Ashville, and West of 17 & I-95, just as much as you.. 
My point is,, YES We to need to get the TRAWLERS Out of inside waters... Fishing would improve greatly with ONE Year.. LOOK at what's happened When We got those FatBack trawlers out past 3 miles down this way.. We now have More Pogies than We can Shake a Stick at.. WITH the APEX Predators following.. WHY Garboman? Are you NOW all witnessing AWESOME BLUEFIN Fishing down this way? It's because WE Have MASSIVE amounts of Pogies that We never had before, and NOW It is bearing fruit.. This past year, I seen Pogies So big... (I've never seen them that huge), You cannot put more than 3 in a 5 Gal. Bait bucket, keeping them alive for Kinging off the Pier.. King Fishing has picked up some as Well, better than expected, even with the commercial(s) fishing them to death..
Look, I know I've been "all-over" the place with this post..
Though lets START with getting those big-arsed Trawlers OUT of the Inside Nursery Waters..
Lets also put a "limit" on Giggers for Flounder, (That's a huge Problem)..
Lastly, We need to either provide a "BUY-OUT" of Gear & licenses of Commercial Fishermen.. With the added option of providing Grants, IF Said Person(s) wanted to stay in their "Heritage", a Option of entering Aquaculture, say, Farming Oysters & Clams, ending Netting practices, (such as "strike-netting").. 
Limit Harvesting of Sponge Crabs, (for those guys)..
The pound-net fishery for Flounder, I'm for pretty much leaving them alone, as that is a very clean Fishery, (Hardly no "by-catch").. 
Sorry if My post is Rambling I've lived here pretty much all my Life, fishing on the Coast.. I too have witnessed the Changes..
Such as the Disappearance of Sea Grass from the New River.. Transitioning to nothing but a Mud bottom, devoid of Life..  
I'll add more, If warranted..
Final thought, something, anything needs to be done before there's NOTHING Left to catch for ANYONE..
Tight lines & Lizard Fish Folks...


----------



## js1172

exactly my thoughts lead, busting on tourists because we don't live there, garbo is a long term tourist, what he doesn't realize is that the whole of the economy of the locals he cares so much about depends on tourism for its survival, I have been coming to the obx for 20 years one or 2 weeks per year, could the 6 piers on the obx operate as they do on the season passes the locals buy? could all the stores and restraunts keep the doors open on the business the locals provide without tourism? without us could the locals afford to dine out? how about the locals who own 1/2 million dollar houses who live in a camper during tourist season to rent they're house out for big money to make the payments? garbo trash talks us but the obx has to have us or it would be a wasteland taken over by the NPS.
js


----------



## DaBig2na

Garbo a "Long-term Tourist"??????!? LMAO SMH... !!!


----------



## js1172

That's it? so I take it your not arguing the the rest of the post? real class act
js


----------



## Guest

LEADDRAFT said:


> I'm going to Chime in here.. I've read most, (if not all) the comments regarding Pro-Comm & pro-Rec..
> I know Who Baitwaster is.. I respect you comments Sir, as well as Ray Browns, thank you, (both), for being a voice of Sanity @ times..
> 
> 
> I myself have been a REC, AND COMM. I reside here in SE NC, for your info Garboman.. I've done the crabbing, Shellfishing, some netting & Shrimping, (Inside). Then back to REC in the Late 2010's..
> I noticed ONE common theme that is being shouted out here.. Red drum, Red Drum,, Red Drum...
> Which is Fine by Me.. For those that remember the RED DRUM Fishery though-out NC had CRASHED along with the Stripers, in the Late 70' & 80's time period(s).. About the time of the *Blackened Red-Fish* craze..
> Thankfully, The MFC, (and I think the Noaa), had foresight, reducing the Drum & Stipers, (for all), bringing them BOTH back from the brink, of extinction.. We now have a Awesome RED Drum Fishery, so much so, the last several years, WE down here in SE NC have been having a BLAST catching these TROPHY Fish, immediately, after Kinging season, is ending, or a Combo of Both, even far south, as OCP Pier on Oak Island..
> Lord, I even Caught ONE My self @ 43 inches.. I ALWAYS thought, I would have to make that trip, UP NAWTH, (OBX) to catch one in MY lifetime.. Now EVERYONE can "catch" one off the pier, or surf, up & down the NC Coast.. IF enough effort is put into catching one of these Amazing fish..
> Stripers? Not so much down this way, NOR around OBX.. I remember Rick Caton, posting pictures in the *Washing Maching* catching numerios Trophy Stripers, that suddenly after years of STRICT Management was WIPED out, (again), in ONE or 2 Years of Trawlers, being allowed once again to harvest these Fish.. Wiping them out due to *HIGH GRADING*.. Never mind, Folks, the Wild Life Service Folks, STOCK Stripers for those river systems up that way, for what amounts to a PENNY Fishery.. AT A LOSS to the TaxPayers.. We cannot even Keep one to Eat down here around the Cape Fear..
> 
> NOW, to the "MEAT" of My post... Anyone remember BlueBack Herring? A fish once that dominated some certain river systems up around OBX & VA?
> IMOP, SPOTS are going in the same general direction..
> Garboman, Do YOU Fish for Spots? How bout Sea Mullet, Black drum, Grey Trout, Flounder?, or any other critters besides Drum? What I'm inferring here is this.. ALOT of "Tourist"s come down to catch those, NOT Trophy Drum. That's a added Benefit If a person were to catch one..
> See what ALOT of ya'll are missing ONE HUGE point here..
> OBX, Hatteris & the Pamlico sound ET AL is a HUGE NURSERY for the Majority of the East Coast.. While plenty is mentioned here of the "WHYS" of the "depletion" of certain species of fish, due to Animal waste runoff, development, more people, etc, etc..
> ALOT boils down to THIS..
> TRAWLING in the Pamlico & INSIDE our NURSERY Waters.. SHRIMP trawling that is.. Those STELL HULLED TRAWERS have NO business being "inside" in the Pamlico, (Or other inside waters), Trawling for Shrimp that could fetch a BETTER Price harvested OUTSIDE in the Ocean..
> Killing, (by catch) 4 to 5 POUNDs of Juvenile Fish for every pound of Shrimp caught.. Along with crabs & other critters.. WHILE Dredging up the bottom, (much like a farm tractor), Disturbing sediments, Killing Sea Grass(s), etc etc..
> So GarboMan, PLEASE explain to US.... WHY? Down here below Topsail Island, SPOTS & Gray Trout, Flounder have become almost a Extinct species? Do you think that maybe, just MAYBE, Killing 4 to 5 pounds of baby Spots, Grey Trout, Flounder, SST(s), and numerous other critters, in those Trawl nets maybe are having a effect after all these years? As late as the Mid-80's We experienced MASSIVE Spot runs here in SE NC that lasted Days, if not weeks, (like in the 70's).. NOW We are LUCKY if We see a Spot run lasting a Day or more.. THIS is what folks down this way are bitching about, (Me included)...
> Spots are currently listed as "Concerned".. Will they, Along with the Grey Trout, be listed as "Endangered" in the near future? All in the Name of "Tradition, Heritage" etc etc? At what cost to the REST of the Citizens of NC?
> Remember Folks.. AND YOU, Mr. Garboman, with ALL due respect Sir.. Even though You live on OBX, threatening Harm to Folks that spend THIER Monies on YOUR Island, supporting YOUR local Economy, that includes Commercials, Hotels, & ALL those Charter Boats that ALSO fish COMMERICAL in the winter for dogfish & Sea Bass and "other" species in the Winter.. YOU NEED those folks in spend Monies on YOUR Island OR you'll be eating those Trophy Drum to get by..
> Point is YOUR Island AND Waters surround it, (Including the Fish there-in) BELONG to ALL the Good Folks of North Carolina.. WE have a Say so, including those folks in Ashville, and West of 17 & I-95, just as much as you..
> My point is,, YES We to need to get the TRAWLERS Out of inside waters... Fishing would improve greatly with ONE Year.. LOOK at what's happened When We got those FatBack trawlers out past 3 miles down this way.. We now have More Pogies than We can Shake a Stick at.. WITH the APEX Predators following.. WHY Garboman? Are you NOW all witnessing AWESOME BLUEFIN Fishing down this way? It's because WE Have MASSIVE amounts of Pogies that We never had before, and NOW It is bearing fruit.. This past year, I seen Pogies So big... (I've never seen them that huge), You cannot put more than 3 in a 5 Gal. Bait bucket, keeping them alive for Kinging off the Pier.. King Fishing has picked up some as Well, better than expected, even with the commercial(s) fishing them to death..
> Look, I know I've been "all-over" the place with this post..
> Though lets START with getting those big-arsed Trawlers OUT of the Inside Nursery Waters..
> Lets also put a "limit" on Giggers for Flounder, (That's a huge Problem)..
> Lastly, We need to either provide a "BUY-OUT" of Gear & licenses of Commercial Fishermen.. With the added option of providing Grants, IF Said Person(s) wanted to stay in their "Heritage", a Option of entering Aquaculture, say, Farming Oysters & Clams, ending Netting practices, (such as "strike-netting")..
> Limit Harvesting of Sponge Crabs, (for those guys)..
> The pound-net fishery for Flounder, I'm for pretty much leaving them alone, as that is a very clean Fishery, (Hardly no "by-catch")..
> Sorry if My post is Rambling I've lived here pretty much all my Life, fishing on the Coast.. I too have witnessed the Changes..
> Such as the Disappearance of Sea Grass from the New River.. Transitioning to nothing but a Mud bottom, devoid of Life..
> I'll add more, If warranted..
> Final thought, something, anything needs to be done before there's NOTHING Left to catch for ANYONE..
> Tight lines & Lizard Fish Folks...


Your post certainly pointed out some things I was unaware of, the kind of information that most commercial fishermen probably wouldn't want to be public knowledge. Thanks !


----------



## herb

Thank you LEADDRAFT , you Sir have hit on EVERYTHING i have been trying to get across PERFECTLY .

EVERYTHING you said is 100% true no matter how much some people and groups keep trying to deny it . Your experiences are what mine and many many others have experienced , i had two professional inshore guides fish with me last year and they fished non stop all over the inlets shore bound trying every technique and bait .

After 7 full hours they said to me , i cannot believe with such outstanding fishery habitat there are no fish , i said fishing has been as bad as bad can get for many years now and there are very very few fisherman to be seen anymore except tourists. 

When i hear someone say differently i know they either have no clue whatsoever or they are pro commercial , there is NO OTHER EXCUSE .


----------



## herb

PierRat4Life said:


> Your post certainly pointed out some things* I was unaware of*, the kind of information that most commercial fishermen probably wouldn't want to be public knowledge. Thanks !



That is very very scary , the unaware part i mean . These issues have been known for many many years , problem is not many have the guts to talk about them but to the people that do i want to sincerely thank you.


----------



## Mumbo_Pungo

Netting and commercial fishing are not mutually exclusive. You can have a successful commercial fishery without inshore gill nets. I guess all these other states have no seafood to eat since they got rid of inshore netting????? First thing they need to do is get rid of the recreational net license. That would take a decent amount out of the water. 

TLDR; You can have a commercial fishery without gill nets.


----------



## Guest

herb said:


> That is very very scary , the unaware part i mean . These issues have been known for many many years , problem is not many have the guts to talk about them but to the people that do i want to sincerely thank you.


I meant that I was unaware of the various netting methods used and their impact, not the overall decline in fishing, in general.


----------



## herb

js , the overwhelming percentage of tourist's, ( especially the ones that come down with their family's and buy their surf fishing setup at Walmart) DO NOT catch much of anything IF anything . i can say this with absolute certainty. I have been fishing on N.C beaches during the day and especially the overnights for decades .

Most get out of their cars and toss a line maybe 15 -20 feet in front of them and sit for hours with not a thing happening , they are bunched up directly in front of the beach access points and on occasion they might catch a small shark or ray . Anybody who thinks tourists are a threat to N.C fisheries is clueless imo.

The "it's the recreational's fault " is also complete rubbish , if you fish numerous beaches you would know finding other anglers is a very rare thing these days . I actually had a guy insist that recreational anglers are the reason for the Loggerhead turtle issues , he said he has seen Loggerheads being reeled in by fisherman on a near daily basis lol, no joke. 

I run into and talk to many recreational anglers in boats even though i am not a boater , especially the professional fishing guides and they said to me " i have never had so many boats pull up to me and ask what happened to the fish " thats how bad it has become and i just said i agreed with him. 

Flounder is the fish that seems to have completely vanished according to most but many say there aren't even people fishing off docks anymore because it's become so bad in this state.


----------



## herb

Mumbo_Pungo said:


> Netting and commercial fishing are not mutually exclusive. *You can have a successful commercial fishery without inshore gill nets. I guess all these other states have no seafood to eat since they got rid of inshore netting????? First thing they need to do is get rid of the recreational net license. That would take a decent amount out of the water. *
> 
> TLDR; You can have a commercial fishery without gill nets.



Very very good point MP and you are 100% correct , problem is NC netter's absolutely REFUSE to give an inch , thats their reputation and thats why they are truly hated . Never ever believe it if you hear them say we care about the fishery because thats the biggest lie on the planet .

I would advise people to go read the thread from the beginning because there are loads of examples proving they are only out for themselves and don't care whatsoever about anyone else.


----------



## jay b

I could change a few words in this and make it into the same argument for purse seines that target Menhaden in the Chesapeake. Haul seines and purse seines are non-discriminatory in that they catch everything around the fish that is being targeted and that in itself is the problem. 

The boys from Reedville will argue the non by-catch point as hard as the Shrimpers that pull nets in the sounds of Carolina argue it. Simple fact is both areas are nurseries that produce the keeper size game fish that we all seek so those areas need to be left alone to produce the fish you want to catch on hook and line or by the commercials in the ocean. 

The same fish are available commercially in the ocean past the 3 mile limit using nets or by a hook and line commercial fishermen that at least have the opportunity to release what the can't or don't want to keep. Commercial shell fishermen use this very same LIVE culling method. Yes this is more expensive but like anything else that cost is passed on to the consumer and will still allow a Waterman to make a living. 

The "what do you do for bait ?" argument is weak, most real fishermen use cast nets, bait rods or lures.


----------



## nhunter344

In 2017 there is still an argument as to the detrimental effects fishing has on fish stocks? Is there seriously an argument that since commercial fisherman have been doing this for 400 years that it doesn't harm inshore fish populations?

Don't get me wrong, there is more than enough blame to go around for everyone (commercial, rec, farmers, industry, etc) but to say laws shouldn't be changed because that's the way its always been is thinking that should've died out around the same time they stopped burning witches at the stake.


----------



## Guest

I agree. You just don't s#!t where you eat. If inshore waters are where immature fish, which are the future of your fishery, grow and are protected until maturity, then you should not be doing things that are harmful to those fish. I'm sure that pollution and increased fishing takes its toll, but surely not the same as commercial fishing in nursery waters.


----------



## Drumdum

Keep right on there,"cca man".. You'll wind up with nofishzones EVERYWHERE IN THAT SOUND!! If you look at it correctly,about every reef in that sound is some form of a nursery for some critter or other.. You will go to your favorite trout hole and it will have signs all around it keeping you out under penalty of marine fisheries.. 

I agree there needs to be tougher regs,BUT it IS a catch 22.. And cca going to bed with enviros and turtles is going to eventually bite them in the ass as well... WATCH AS WE WATCHED coms get shut out on the beaches by recs,only to have those SAME beaches shut down to recs as well!! Hide and watch,see if I am not right in the long haul..


----------



## Mumbo_Pungo

Seems to have worked out just fine for every other state that got rid of inshore gill netting. I have no problem with a commercial fishery in the sounds but trawl nets and gill nets need to go. They kill way to many fish and most of them are just thrown away. Also, enforcement of our current laws is almost zero in some areas. They need more funding.


----------



## Garboman

LEADDRAFT said:


> I'm going to Chime in here.. I've read most, (if not all) the comments regarding Pro-Comm & pro-Rec..
> I know Who Baitwaster is.. I respect you comments Sir, as well as Ray Browns, thank you, (both), for being a voice of Sanity @ times..
> 
> 
> I myself have been a REC, AND COMM. I reside here in SE NC, for your info Garboman.. I've done the crabbing, Shellfishing, some netting & Shrimping, (Inside). Then back to REC in the Late 2010's..
> I noticed ONE common theme that is being shouted out here.. Red drum, Red Drum,, Red Drum...
> Which is Fine by Me.. For those that remember the RED DRUM Fishery though-out NC had CRASHED along with the Stripers, in the Late 70' & 80's time period(s).. About the time of the *Blackened Red-Fish* craze..
> Thankfully, The MFC, (and I think the Noaa), had foresight, reducing the Drum & Stipers, (for all), bringing them BOTH back from the brink, of extinction.. We now have a Awesome RED Drum Fishery, so much so, the last several years, WE down here in SE NC have been having a BLAST catching these TROPHY Fish, immediately, after Kinging season, is ending, or a Combo of Both, even far south, as OCP Pier on Oak Island..
> Lord, I even Caught ONE My self @ 43 inches.. I ALWAYS thought, I would have to make that trip, UP NAWTH, (OBX) to catch one in MY lifetime.. Now EVERYONE can "catch" one off the pier, or surf, up & down the NC Coast.. IF enough effort is put into catching one of these Amazing fish..
> Stripers? Not so much down this way, NOR around OBX.. I remember Rick Caton, posting pictures in the *Washing Maching* catching numerios Trophy Stripers, that suddenly after years of STRICT Management was WIPED out, (again), in ONE or 2 Years of Trawlers, being allowed once again to harvest these Fish.. Wiping them out due to *HIGH GRADING*.. Never mind, Folks, the Wild Life Service Folks, STOCK Stripers for those river systems up that way, for what amounts to a PENNY Fishery.. AT A LOSS to the TaxPayers.. We cannot even Keep one to Eat down here around the Cape Fear..
> 
> NOW, to the "MEAT" of My post... Anyone remember BlueBack Herring? A fish once that dominated some certain river systems up around OBX & VA?
> IMOP, SPOTS are going in the same general direction..
> Garboman, Do YOU Fish for Spots? How bout Sea Mullet, Black drum, Grey Trout, Flounder?, or any other critters besides Drum? What I'm inferring here is this.. ALOT of "Tourist"s come down to catch those, NOT Trophy Drum. That's a added Benefit If a person were to catch one..
> See what ALOT of ya'll are missing ONE HUGE point here..
> OBX, Hatteris & the Pamlico sound ET AL is a HUGE NURSERY for the Majority of the East Coast.. While plenty is mentioned here of the "WHYS" of the "depletion" of certain species of fish, due to Animal waste runoff, development, more people, etc, etc..
> ALOT boils down to THIS..
> TRAWLING in the Pamlico & INSIDE our NURSERY Waters.. SHRIMP trawling that is.. Those STELL HULLED TRAWERS have NO business being "inside" in the Pamlico, (Or other inside waters), Trawling for Shrimp that could fetch a BETTER Price harvested OUTSIDE in the Ocean..
> Killing, (by catch) 4 to 5 POUNDs of Juvenile Fish for every pound of Shrimp caught.. Along with crabs & other critters.. WHILE Dredging up the bottom, (much like a farm tractor), Disturbing sediments, Killing Sea Grass(s), etc etc..
> So GarboMan, PLEASE explain to US.... WHY? Down here below Topsail Island, SPOTS & Gray Trout, Flounder have become almost a Extinct species? Do you think that maybe, just MAYBE, Killing 4 to 5 pounds of baby Spots, Grey Trout, Flounder, SST(s), and numerous other critters, in those Trawl nets maybe are having a effect after all these years? As late as the Mid-80's We experienced MASSIVE Spot runs here in SE NC that lasted Days, if not weeks, (like in the 70's).. NOW We are LUCKY if We see a Spot run lasting a Day or more.. THIS is what folks down this way are bitching about, (Me included)...
> Spots are currently listed as "Concerned".. Will they, Along with the Grey Trout, be listed as "Endangered" in the near future? All in the Name of "Tradition, Heritage" etc etc? At what cost to the REST of the Citizens of NC?
> Remember Folks.. AND YOU, Mr. Garboman, with ALL due respect Sir.. Even though You live on OBX, threatening Harm to Folks that spend THIER Monies on YOUR Island, supporting YOUR local Economy, that includes Commercials, Hotels, & ALL those Charter Boats that ALSO fish COMMERICAL in the winter for dogfish & Sea Bass and "other" species in the Winter.. YOU NEED those folks in spend Monies on YOUR Island OR you'll be eating those Trophy Drum to get by..
> Point is YOUR Island AND Waters surround it, (Including the Fish there-in) BELONG to ALL the Good Folks of North Carolina.. WE have a Say so, including those folks in Ashville, and West of 17 & I-95, just as much as you..
> My point is,, YES We to need to get the TRAWLERS Out of inside waters... Fishing would improve greatly with ONE Year.. LOOK at what's happened When We got those FatBack trawlers out past 3 miles down this way.. We now have More Pogies than We can Shake a Stick at.. WITH the APEX Predators following.. WHY Garboman? Are you NOW all witnessing AWESOME BLUEFIN Fishing down this way? It's because WE Have MASSIVE amounts of Pogies that We never had before, and NOW It is bearing fruit.. This past year, I seen Pogies So big... (I've never seen them that huge), You cannot put more than 3 in a 5 Gal. Bait bucket, keeping them alive for Kinging off the Pier.. King Fishing has picked up some as Well, better than expected, even with the commercial(s) fishing them to death..
> Look, I know I've been "all-over" the place with this post..
> Though lets START with getting those big-arsed Trawlers OUT of the Inside Nursery Waters..
> Lets also put a "limit" on Giggers for Flounder, (That's a huge Problem)..
> Lastly, We need to either provide a "BUY-OUT" of Gear & licenses of Commercial Fishermen.. With the added option of providing Grants, IF Said Person(s) wanted to stay in their "Heritage", a Option of entering Aquaculture, say, Farming Oysters & Clams, ending Netting practices, (such as "strike-netting")..
> Limit Harvesting of Sponge Crabs, (for those guys)..
> The pound-net fishery for Flounder, I'm for pretty much leaving them alone, as that is a very clean Fishery, (Hardly no "by-catch")..
> Sorry if My post is Rambling I've lived here pretty much all my Life, fishing on the Coast.. I too have witnessed the Changes..
> Such as the Disappearance of Sea Grass from the New River.. Transitioning to nothing but a Mud bottom, devoid of Life..
> I'll add more, If warranted..
> Final thought, something, anything needs to be done before there's NOTHING Left to catch for ANYONE..
> Tight lines & Lizard Fish Folks...


Lead That is a lot of material to refute or agree with. It is right in the middle of Drum season up here and we are on the fish, likely for the next month or so. Drum Pro #1 broke 60 citations for Spring 2017 last night so there is a precedent for total catch and release fisheries.

If you check my history I have advocated buying out Reedville for years, like over twenty before there was an internet, as the Reedville boats laid waste to fatback on the OBX for decades.

If fishing is no bad down in SE NC it is bad for Commercials also, which is a capital driven enterprise, no fish brought to the dock and the fuel bill does not get paid, so their boats eventually get pulled out and the fisherman goes to work at some other endeavor, like taking tourists out for sport fishing trips or dolphin tours.

I do not see a lot of gill netting going on in the Pamlico, right now, mostly pound nets. Most of the commercial fishermen I knew are either passed on or doing other endeavors rather than fishing.

Look a little further upstream to discover why the sea grass is no longer present and go off on the pig farmers and municipalities releasing sewage into the rivers, before you blame a dredge.

Big Drum were on the out before the total ban was put in place, same principle could work for flounder and grey and speckled trout, total ban on taking them for three years or so, catch and release only, by everyone commercial and recreational fishermen alike.

Fishing has been pretty decent this year for some folks, some folks either do not put the time in or want to fish during mid day, when the bite is at dusk and into the night.

I am just as much a tourist as the next guy at the moment, the difference I have been playing here (OBX) longer, so I am more attuned to where to go and when, playing tourist at a higher level.

Will the fishing get back to what it was when I started in the 1960's, likely not, guess I will make due with what we have, a lot of folks on this forum will never get to experience the fishery that I took part in, I started fishing when the Spot run started in August and ran hard until Late October, the OBX piers were packed and everyone leaving with packed coolers, day after day.

I only fish for Big Drum these days, may go Cobia fishing at a pier where they got 90 citations last summer for a bit and then it is fall Drum season. 

I can't fix your problem in SE NC and SC and no fish, I think the fishing down there has always been suspect unless you are in a boat, beaches are too flat and you do not have the Labrador current meeting up with the Gulf Stream.

As far as hating on Commercial Fishermen, like I said before, Hatteras has its traditions and good luck changing anyone's mind 180 degrees, pro-com or pro-rec. 

I expect Big Drum tonight after Dark, come on up and if you want I will cast a bait or two out for you.


----------



## WNCRick

No way in hell do i have time to read all this. Dont forget about the golf courses. They are really hated due to runoff. My buddy thats a com is loving life, gigged 250 lbs the other night....just saying


----------



## WNCRick

Your last post is pretty much spot on garbo. These flat southern facing beaches are what they are.


----------



## NC KingFisher

Biggest problem is SENC is beach renourishment, don't see alot of inside shrimp trawling, that's a topic I won't get into. If you want to complain about something, don't beat on how a man makes his living and feeds his family. Good way to get out in the wrong direction


----------



## Mumbo_Pungo

NC KingFisher said:


> Biggest problem is SENC is beach renourishment, don't see alot of inside shrimp trawling, that's a topic I won't get into. If you want to complain about something, don't beat on how a man makes his living and feeds his family. Good way to get out in the wrong direction


If someone wants to complain about an individual or company that is detrimental to a public resource they have every right. I think if gill netting and inshore trawling were done away with many of the people in areas that somewhat rely on commercial fishing would benefit. NC has a very unique situation with our sounds and inshore water system. i believe our state has the potential to have one of the best inshore fisheries in the country. If we followed along with other states and got rid of inshore trawling and gill netting you would see a massive boom in recreational fishing and industries related to it. Many of these poor areas of the east would have more people coming through who have money to spend. There would be food and lodging needs, tackle shops, Charter captains. A lot of commercial guy says they would kill everyone's livelihood by getting rid of the inshore trawls and gill netting. I actually think its the opposite. It would help those areas grow by supporting a recreation fishing tourism industry.


----------



## NC KingFisher

If that's how you feel, plenty of other places for you to fish. Takes alot to switch from commercial to charter


----------



## Mumbo_Pungo

NC KingFisher said:


> If that's how you feel, plenty of other places for you to fish. Takes alot to switch from commercial to charter


Also plenty of other ways and places for commercials to fish. They do not own the water just like recs do not own it. Though coms have a disproportionate impact on the resource. Like i have said, I am not against commercial fishing, i am against some commercial fishing practices like inshore trawling and gill netting which have terrible side effects. I think if managed correctly both sides can benefit.


----------



## FishNC13

NC KingFisher said:


> Biggest problem is SENC is beach renourishment, don't see alot of inside shrimp trawling, that's a topic I won't get into. If you want to complain about something, don't beat on how a man makes his living and feeds his family. Good way to get out in the wrong direction


This has really hurt the topsail piers.


----------



## bronzbck1

Drumdum said:


> Keep right on there,"cca man".. You'll wind up with nofishzones EVERYWHERE IN THAT SOUND!! If you look at it correctly,about every reef in that sound is some form of a nursery for some critter or other.. You will go to your favorite trout hole and it will have signs all around it keeping you out under penalty of marine fisheries..
> 
> I agree there needs to be tougher regs,BUT it IS a catch 22.. And cca going to bed with enviros and turtles is going to eventually bite them in the ass as well... WATCH AS WE WATCHED coms get shut out on the beaches by recs,only to have those SAME beaches shut down to recs as well!! Hide and watch,see if I am not right in the long haul..


 100% right Kenny. I told a CCA guy a few weeks back that getting in bed with the Southern Eviromental Law Firm was going to bite them in the Azz. They won't quit until its no fish zones. After all they are running out of reasons to sue about the birds. They can stay in business with the fish now.


----------



## Drumdum

bronzbck1 said:


> 100% right Kenny. I told a CCA guy a few weeks back that getting in bed with the Southern Eviromental Law Firm was going to bite them in the Azz. They won't quit until its no fish zones. After all they are running out of reasons to sue about the birds. They can stay in business with the fish now.


 Funny how many think it's a conspiracy theory when you mention nofishzones.. Reality will set in when cca causes this here.. I read in one of the above post about how great it is in Fla.. No doubt they have great fishing,although look what is slowly happening in gulf of Fla near lower keys,soon a guide will no longer be able to access the fish that are there because of nfz... Nofishzones are coming my friends,especially if you keep cca in business.....ps,you really want to see them in full swing,give Ca a visit........


----------



## Mumbo_Pungo

Drumdum said:


> Funny how many think it's a conspiracy theory when you mention nofishzones.. Reality will set in when cca causes this here.. I read in one of the above post about how great it is in Fla.. No doubt they have great fishing,although look what is slowly happening in gulf of Fla near lower keys,soon a guide will no longer be able to access the fish that are there because of nfz... Nofishzones are coming my friends,especially if you keep cca in business.....ps,you really want to see them in full swing,give Ca a visit........


So what is your alternative suggestion? I understand you might not like CCA. Do you think gill netting and inshore trawling should stay as is?


----------



## stevec8787

I really dont understand the knock on SE NC that I hear...great trout fishing last fall..pretty much lasted into the winter and then this spring we had the choppers for a while....i watched people catch big drum off mercers last fall too and saw plenty of pictures of them up in topsail....i couldnt keep the small flounder off my shrimp and jig in the inlet last week and from what i understand that is a natural progression the small ones are around first....maybe I'm just feeling a bit defensive because I live here but I really dont find it to be "dead water"


----------



## Mumbo_Pungo

I think they are referring more the surf fishing down that way. Beaches are flatter and not conducive to holding lots of fish.


----------



## Drumdum

Mumbo_Pungo said:


> I think they are referring more the surf fishing down that way. Beaches are flatter and not conducive to holding lots of fish.


 You think coms have an effect on beaches??? haha No I do not,but taking it away entirely is falling right into their (cca and enviros) hands... It is a slippery slope and cca is going down it,taking all those that trust in them into the same direction... A more moderate approach could help the situation.. ACTUALLY find ways to make the com be able to make a living without so much bycatch.. Throwing regs that are sometimes not backed by science into the equation to meet an agenda is a little much.. In the long run folks like you and I that just use a rod and reel will be the ones eating a bowl of suck when it is all said and done if cca is in bed with enviros to get coms off the water.... jmho


----------



## Mumbo_Pungo

You might be right about the cca, I am not a member. Though I can say that they were pushed in that direction because Coms have not given an inch on any type of change to their fishing practices. Now the other side has been driven to the extreme to try and get change. Just like you say CCA is using bad science to make claims the Coms have ignored and talked down any study or evidence that they are hurting fish population. Hard to have common sense solutions when no one wants to meet in the middle.


----------



## Drumdum

Mumbo_Pungo said:


> You might be right about the cca, I am not a member. Though I can say that they were pushed in that direction because Coms have not given an inch on any type of change to their fishing practices. Now the other side has been driven to the extreme to try and get change. Just like you say CCA is using bad science to make claims the Coms have ignored and talked down any study or evidence that they are hurting fish population. Hard to have common sense solutions when no one wants to meet in the middle.


 If they don't,we all loose...


----------



## Garboman

stevec8787 said:


> I really dont understand the knock on SE NC that I hear...great trout fishing last fall..pretty much lasted into the winter and then this spring we had the choppers for a while....i watched people catch big drum off mercers last fall too and saw plenty of pictures of them up in topsail....i couldnt keep the small flounder off my shrimp and jig in the inlet last week and from what i understand that is a natural progression the small ones are around first....maybe I'm just feeling a bit defensive because I live here but I really dont find it to be "dead water"


There is a bunch of older fellas who show up for Drum Fishing here on Hatteras in the evening for the last six weeks, they can not cast well, do not have good form, so they never learned how and they leave like clockwork right after Dark. I tell them the bite is late, but they always leave too early.....maybe Herb is leaving too early?


----------



## surffshr

Herb you got a stiff upper lip to put yourself out there on this site. I am sure there are others that feel the same as you but don't want the backlash that comes with such posts.


----------

